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New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/25 12:46:24


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44250056

Bond 25 and with Danial Craig rumoured to be calling it a day after this, this could be a cracker.

I rate Boyle as a director, so I've got high hopes.

Sadly, every time a new Bond is released, it makes the challenge of watching every Bond film back to back on a weekend even harder


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/25 12:52:10


Post by: Dreadwinter


But didn't they tie off the entire series arc in Spectre? I thought that was his last film. What now? His real parents were behind it the whole time? M never died and she was the real head honcho? Moriarty didn't die in the fall? Where does it end?!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/25 13:08:03


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


 Dreadwinter wrote:
But didn't they tie off the entire series arc in Spectre? I thought that was his last film. What now? His real parents were behind it the whole time? M never died and she was the real head honcho? Moriarty didn't die in the fall? Where does it end?!


You ask for logic from a Bond Film?

Raises an eyebrow in the style of Roger Moore


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/25 14:25:01


Post by: Easy E


The new Arc will be him having to re-define his place inteh world based ont eh knowledge that his been revealed to him, and then


.....move a secluded island, leave a map on how to find him, and then when he is found simply toss is Walther PPK over his shoulder and into the sea. He will then refuse to help. Later, we will see his Austin Martin sunk in the lagoon, BUT it will never matter to the story again.....


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/26 09:54:37


Post by: Mr Morden


 Easy E wrote:
The new Arc will be him having to re-define his place inteh world based ont eh knowledge that his been revealed to him, and then


.....move a secluded island, leave a map on how to find him, and then when he is found simply toss is Walther PPK over his shoulder and into the sea. He will then refuse to help. Later, we will see his Austin Martin sunk in the lagoon, BUT it will never matter to the story again.....


Wow that's just sooooo Subverting - Dude!

I am hoping for a much better JB film than Spectre or Skyfall but if not - well Mission Impossible now does Bond much better than Bond, currently Bond is just another Bourne film.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/26 12:36:36


Post by: Kilkrazy


That is why story arcs are sometimes a bad thing.

I agree with you about Bond having become the new Bourne. Well, maybe not quite that bad.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/26 17:18:20


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


 Kilkrazy wrote:
That is why story arcs are sometimes a bad thing.

I agree with you about Bond having become the new Bourne. Well, maybe not quite that bad.



The Early Bourne films are decent action films IMO.


But yeah - let's keep story arcs out of Bond. Otherwise you return to Sean Connery in a hidden volcano base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Easy E wrote:
The new Arc will be him having to re-define his place inteh world based ont eh knowledge that his been revealed to him, and then


.....move a secluded island, leave a map on how to find him, and then when he is found simply toss is Walther PPK over his shoulder and into the sea. He will then refuse to help. Later, we will see his Austin Martin sunk in the lagoon, BUT it will never matter to the story again.....


You old cynic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
The new Arc will be him having to re-define his place inteh world based ont eh knowledge that his been revealed to him, and then


.....move a secluded island, leave a map on how to find him, and then when he is found simply toss is Walther PPK over his shoulder and into the sea. He will then refuse to help. Later, we will see his Austin Martin sunk in the lagoon, BUT it will never matter to the story again.....


Wow that's just sooooo Subverting - Dude!

I am hoping for a much better JB film than Spectre or Skyfall but if not - well Mission Impossible now does Bond much better than Bond, currently Bond is just another Bourne film.



As long as we don't end up with Question of Sport, I'm happy.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/26 19:47:15


Post by: Riquende


Goldeneye should have been the last Bond, one last hurrah for an aging character (M even calls him out on being a relic). The rest of the Brosnan ones were just awful, and I didn't bother with the rest of the Daniel Craig ones after Casino Royale - modern spy tosh given a Bond lick of paint.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/27 08:35:30


Post by: Howard A Treesong


Tomorrow Never Dies is the best Brosnan, some of the problems with goldeneye are smoothed out, Brosnan is more comfortable in the role and Jonathan Pryce is superb.

Skyfall was a great film, best Daniel Craig one by far. I liked the way they inverted the typical bond film, all the exotic island locations were near the start of the film and it withdrew to a small more personal location at the end.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/27 09:12:23


Post by: Compel


I think Tomorrow Never Dies is under rated, especially in light of events in the past few years. It's basically "Fake News" the movie.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/27 13:03:28


Post by: Frazzled


You're all chumps. Live and Let Die and From Russia With Love were the best films. All downhill after that...


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/27 15:15:54


Post by: Riquende


 Frazzled wrote:
You're all chumps. Live and Let Die and From Russia With Love were the best films. All downhill after that...


Live and Let Die was 10 years after From Russia with Love with about half a dozen movies between them. Do you mean Dr. No?

A little while ago I was trying to come up with a shortlist of not just the best Bond films, but ones that would hit all the most important/iconic events etc. I think I tried to get to 9 to sort of make it 3 trilogies. Only thing is I'm not that familiar with the Connery ones and never found time to sit down and go through them all again. I think I had it down to:

Dr No (not a huge fan but it's the first)
Goldfinger (the one where the laser beam's going up his jaffas)
OHMSS (married, only Lazenby)
Live & Let Die (first Roger Moore, one of the best themes)
The Spy Who Loved Me (best Roger Moore, has Jaws)
Licence to Kill (token Dalton, shows a personal side to Bond)
GoldenEye (Brosnan, one last job in a changing world)


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/27 15:50:10


Post by: Elbows


I love me some Danny Boyle, and I really enjoy Craig as Bond (granted some of the movies have been poor, Spectre being one of the worst).

Put me in the hopeful category.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/28 02:36:20


Post by: Ouze


I've never seen a James Bond movie, but I love Danny Boyle so I suppose I will start with his.

 Frazzled wrote:
You're all chumps. Live and Let Die and From Russia With Love were the best films. All downhill after that...


But if I do decide to watch some of them beforehand, what do you guys suggest? Are the ones listed the best?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/28 13:23:18


Post by: Frazzled


You have to start with Doctor No.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/28 13:26:29


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


 Ouze wrote:
I've never seen a James Bond movie, but I love Danny Boyle so I suppose I will start with his.

 Frazzled wrote:
You're all chumps. Live and Let Die and From Russia With Love were the best films. All downhill after that...


But if I do decide to watch some of them beforehand, what do you guys suggest? Are the ones listed the best?


You've never watched a James Bond?

Best not come over to Britain, because that's a crime that will see you get 10 years in the Tower of London.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
You have to start with Doctor No.


I'd buy the whole lot and watch them back to back over a weekend

Something which I have done.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/29 17:06:28


Post by: Easy E


I recommend Dr. No, From Russia with Love, Casino Royale, Live and let Die, and You Only Live Twice as required viewing but not necessarily in that order.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/29 17:19:32


Post by: A Town Called Malus


Connery: Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger

Moore: Live and Let Die (the duel between Bond and Scaramanga in The Man with the Golden Gun is good, but the rest of the film leaves much to be desired, despite Christopher Lee's performance). Personally not a huge fan of Moore's Bond as he doesn't match the character from the books, at all, especially in the later films. Also, in one of his last films, he was older than the father of the actress who was playing the love interest, which is a bit weird.

Dalton: Licence to Kill

Brosnan: Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies

Craig: Casino Royale and Skyfall


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/05/29 17:41:18


Post by: Riquende


Conversely Roger Moore is by far my favourite Bond, and I'm not ashamed to admit I even enjoy Moonraker...


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/06 12:52:56


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Rumors put Helena Bonham Carter as the main villain.

This is exciting news!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/06 13:03:46


Post by: A Town Called Malus


topaxygouroun i wrote:
Rumors put Helena Bonham Carter as the main villain.

This is exciting news!


Will she actually be playing a character or will it be the usual Helena Bonham Carter performance?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/06 13:46:58


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 A Town Called Malus wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Rumors put Helena Bonham Carter as the main villain.

This is exciting news!


Will she actually be playing a character or will it be the usual Helena Bonham Carter performance?


No idea yet, but I would not hate her playing herself. Oh and the alternative option is Adjelina Jolie so...


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/10 13:54:05


Post by: Strg Alt


Another boring Bond movie? I stopped watching the 007 series when Brosnan left. They should revitalize the setting with fondly remembered former characters. How about this idea:


The Adventures of Xenia Onatopp

This series will encompass sixty-nine episodes with a running time of ca. ninety minutes. Xenia Onatopp (Golden Eye, 1995, Female Villain) will work in each episode for a different crime syndicate which will try to rule the world. In addition to this, she will be chased by various 00 agents who will all suffer a humiliating death between her murderous thighs. Despite her skill, at the end of each and every episode the world will be saved by the scared ´Bond-Girl´ just because the 00 agent has his hands full at the moment. Onatopp will form tag-teams in some episodes with other female villains such as Bambi, Thumper, Pussy Galore and Fatima Blush who will also want to get physical with those smug british agents.
At the end of episode sixty-nine, Xenia will kill 007 to get revenge for nearly killing her in Golden Eye (RETCON!, her injury was just a flesh wound). Then she marries Domino Petachi (Bond Girl) and retires from being a regular henchwoman for global crime syndicates and starts to work as a freelance assassin.

The main themes will still be there: Exotic places, car/bike/ski/plane/locomotive chases, explosions, gadgets, suits, beautiful women, femme fatales and insufferable instances of product placement.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/10 15:46:33


Post by: War Drone


I'd watch it

Then again, not a Bond movie has been made that I didn't thoroughly enjoy.
Although I have to admit to having a very unmanly crush on Craig's Bond.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/11 10:40:33


Post by: Dreadwinter


I have to be the only person who thought the Brosnan movies were incredibly boring. I havent seen them in ages but from what I remember, they were Michael Bay levels of bad.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/11 10:49:47


Post by: AndrewGPaul


They started out OK, but the one with the invisible Aston Martin in Iceland was no good.

It's interesting going back and watching the Connery films, before the formula quite set in; they're not "gritty", but they're nowhere near the levels the franchise got to in the 70s and 80s. I'm still quite fond even of Moonraker, because as a 7-year-old, space shuttles were cool.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/11 15:36:56


Post by: Easy E


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They started out OK, but the one with the invisible Aston Martin in Iceland was no good.

It's interesting going back and watching the Connery films, before the formula quite set in; they're not "gritty", but they're nowhere near the levels the franchise got to in the 70s and 80s. I'm still quite fond even of Moonraker, because as a 7-year-old, space shuttles were cool.


Space + Jaws + Bond + Bond Girls = Good times for 7-12 Year Olds!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/11 17:19:32


Post by: A Town Called Malus


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They started out OK, but the one with the invisible Aston Martin in Iceland was no good.


Agreed. Giant Space Laser was just a rehash of Diamonds are Forever and Goldeneye, the theme song was absolutely awful (doesn't help it was followed by Casino Royale which had an amazing theme song) and the beginning setup of Bond being captured and tortured, with the implication that he might have broken and given up names was wasted as he still ended up with all the gadgets he'd need to clear his name rather than have to go more basic and without support.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/06/11 20:16:18


Post by: Easy E


I love the Madonna Theme song!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/21 18:02:46


Post by: reds8n


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-45265336

and Boyle is out/gone due to creative differences.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/21 18:48:31


Post by: KTG17


I think I was living in Asia the first time I saw Man with the Golden Gun. It might have been the first Bond film I saw all the way through although I knew he existed. I loved it. Its still one of my favorites. But I also think the Bond stories peaked in the Roger Moore era, whether you liked him as Bond or not. Moonraker, Octopussy, and so on. While I love the grittier Daniel Craig, the plots just aren't living up to the actor, and truthfully I don't need Bond and his family roots. I prefer some greater stakes and I am just not feeling it in these films. Specter was a huge let down.

I like to pretend that the Pierce Brosnan and Timothy Dalton eras didn't happen. Pierce would have been fine had he followed Roger Moore, but by the time he came on his look was a little too late. And Timothy was gritty like Daniel Craig but also kind of goofy looking and the movies sucked.

I am really not sure where they go after 25. I think part of the problem with Bond and the focus on Bond himself goes beyond people's interest in the character, but also the UK just doesn't have the kind of presence in the world as it used to. It seems his role in international affairs has to be shared with his uncovering his roots because I am not sure it makes that much sense for Bond to be taking on some of the crazier plot lines he has in the past. It is more shadow work now, which is fine, in a secret war where most of it should be, but I just think that the movie plots have been a little bit of a waste on a great, great choice to play Bond.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/22 11:00:15


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


 reds8n wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-45265336

and Boyle is out/gone due to creative differences.



Yeah beat me to it.

Could you change the title? Say, changing it to Danny Boyle not directing anymore, or something?

It's a shame about Boyle, because I rate him highly, and he's usually the last person to pull the plug on a project, so the 'creative differences' must be bad.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/22 18:06:53


Post by: Elbows


Enthusiasm reduced by 50% with Boyle out. Shame.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/22 19:02:09


Post by: Mysterio


Any rumors as to what the "Creative Differences" were this time around?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/23 16:21:12


Post by: AndrewGPaul


According to Chris Evans on Radio 2 this morning (no, not that one, the annoying ginger one), it's because he disagreed with Daniel Craig about the casting of a villain.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/24 08:50:22


Post by: Kilkrazy


I am beginning to think that Bond is about played out.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/24 13:57:28


Post by: Dark Apostle 666


It does seem a bit odd that Daniel Craig has enough influence over the casting process that Boyle had to leave over it, rather than overruling him. Unless the studio was behind Craig?
But is it common for actors to have that kind of influence? Seems a bit weird, really, especially when the actor in question has made it quite clear he's sick of the franchise and this is probably his last one.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/24 18:42:37


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
It does seem a bit odd that Daniel Craig has enough influence over the casting process that Boyle had to leave over it, rather than overruling him. Unless the studio was behind Craig?
But is it common for actors to have that kind of influence? Seems a bit weird, really, especially when the actor in question has made it quite clear he's sick of the franchise and this is probably his last one.


In a situation like this where you are doing a run of a specific style of Bond, I would assume Craig has a lot of say. They absolutely need him for another Bond, otherwise they need to start a new series. He is the face of it all.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/25 14:22:40


Post by: Dropbear Victim


Not sure what villain they could possibly come up with after spectre. Spectre already felt like the Craig era finale.

Only thing I can think of as a "villain" now is that they make it that all the Bond Girls deaths were staged and also that all of them were pregnant. Then a radicalised child service agency realises they all share a father and tries to hunt down Bond.
Hold on, Contacting the studio right now!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/08/25 15:20:28


Post by: Riquende


 Kilkrazy wrote:
I am beginning to think that Bond is about played out.


I've felt this for a long time. I was born in '81 so saw a few of them on TV as a young kid before the long lull of the early 90s. GoldenEye was great, but I couldn't get in to any of the later Brosnan ones. I couldn't stand the first Daniel Craig one and never watched any after. I might have had the second Craig one on the TV once in the background when painting.

I have got a lot of time for the classic Bonds but making more is a mistake. They're very much of their time and that time is done. Would you get behind a relaunch of the Carry On films*?

* Disclaimer: I love the Carry On films but you could see the decline in quality late in the run and any attempt to do them now would be a failure as:

a) They would stick to the original spirit and be horribly outdated
b) They would be all new and cynically cashing in on the name
c) They would be done in an ironic way that nobody wants



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/20 09:07:33


Post by: reds8n


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-45586462


Beasts of No Nation director Cary Fukunaga has been named as the director of the next James Bond film.

Fukunaga, who is also directing new Emma Stone Netflix series Maniac, replaces Danny Boyle, who dropped out, blaming "creative differences".

"We are delighted to be working with Cary," said producers Michael G Wilson and Barbara Broccoli.

"His versatility and innovation make him an excellent choice for our next James Bond adventure."

Filming will begin at Pinewood Studios on 4 March.




New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/20 20:19:05


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Best not come over to Britain, because that's a crime that will see you get 10 years in the Tower of London.



In other words, just long enough to get the Alex from Clockwork Orange treatment in seeing all of the Bond films back to back


Question, do y'all extradite to UK??

Edit: on the subject of villains, I had gotten the impression that Casino Royale was a sort of reboot of the Bond "timeline" which would open the writers to any number of classic villains to choose from.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/20 20:50:09


Post by: Mr Morden


 Kilkrazy wrote:
I am beginning to think that Bond is about played out.


Restart needed or just accept that Mission Impossible is now a better Bond Film than Bond.

Spectre was awful.

Start again and either go for something different like a black guy or a woman (Atomic Blonde was also better) or go retro and try to match the recent Man from Uncle - not sure they will.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 05:32:41


Post by: Kilkrazy


I think the modern Bonds have many merits. The set pieces, chase scenes and location shoots are still awesome, there's some very good acting, and some good bits of dialogue.

But somehow it's lost an indefinable sparkle and seems to sit uneasily between Bourne, Kingsmen and Mission Impossible.

I think this is because it's gone a bit too dark and gritty, and lost most of the sense of fun that uplifted a lot of Bond films before Daniel Craig joined.

I guess I'm saying that I prefer Bond to be a bit more escapist.

Modern Bond's finest hour was parachuting the Queen into the Olympic Stadium in 2012.

Everything seems to have gone downhill since then.

Britain today is a pretty miserable and uneasy place. We don't need a national hero (even if a fictional one) who's also gone all miserable and uneasy.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 17:08:30


Post by: Xenomancers


More Daniel Craig bond can't be a bad thing - unless it's another specter.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 17:09:35


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Xenomancers wrote:
More Daniel Craig bond can't be a bad thing - unless it's another specter.


Can you guys who hate Spectre explain to me what's up?? I happen to really like it, and am curious why the haters hate it.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 17:12:46


Post by: Xenomancers


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
More Daniel Craig bond can't be a bad thing - unless it's another specter.


Can you guys who hate Spectre explain to me what's up?? I happen to really like it, and am curious why the haters hate it.

I did not like the ending at the house. It didn't feel bond like. The movie was all over the place too. It had some great scenes - don't get me wrong. The ending just kills it for me. Part of it is that I have high standards for bond films after Casino Royale.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 17:27:07


Post by: Easy E


I found it boring. Why? I think the pacing was off, and there was never much of a sense of dread or tension.

When Bond escapes the compound is a low point in the no-tension game.

I disagree in the light-hearted nature of future Bonds. We have that in plenty of spy fare now. He needs to stay about where he is at on the "serious" level and not go "Over-the-Top". IM and the Spy remakes are all ready "Over-the-Top". However, one thing that separates Bond from Bourne is that he can use the cool government tools, while Bourne can't.

They need to pinpoint what makes Bond different from IM, Man from Uncle, Bourne, and highlight those points. Those things are the fact that he does have a leash to work with, he gets the toys, he is a lone wolf, and he is a psychological disaster zone.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 22:15:03


Post by: Maniac_nmt


 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Tomorrow Never Dies is the best Brosnan, some of the problems with goldeneye are smoothed out, Brosnan is more comfortable in the role and Jonathan Pryce is superb.

Skyfall was a great film, best Daniel Craig one by far. I liked the way they inverted the typical bond film, all the exotic island locations were near the start of the film and it withdrew to a small more personal location at the end.


I liked Die Another Day! to some degree. Overall not great (Denise Richards is terrible), but it has a great moment when he shoots Elektra King without flinching. Just bang, dead.

Connery is still the best Bond as he is the best at the instant switch from witty/pleasant to murderous killer without remorse.

I would probably rank the Bonds (best to worst): Connery, Dalton (like Connery he physically looks like Bond and was fantastic at his ability to be coldly ruthless at the drop of the button, the movies just weren't very good), Craig, Moore, Brosnan, Lazenby.

Craig is blonde, and has no business playing James Bond. However, he does exude a ruthless bastard motif that Bond needs.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 23:04:29


Post by: Mr Morden


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
More Daniel Craig bond can't be a bad thing - unless it's another specter.


Can you guys who hate Spectre explain to me what's up?? I happen to really like it, and am curious why the haters hate it.


Slow, poor plot, the chase scene in the cars was very slow and poorly done - compare to other spy films it was just bad - I guess they could only drive the cars at about 5 mph as they were so expensve.
Hardly used charaacters, lack of use of the bond theme, lack of humour
D Craig and pretty much everyone else looked like how the film felt to me - old and tired.
Weak and unconvincing villan.
Terrible ending.

Did not like Skyfall either.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/21 23:15:49


Post by: Overread


I think one thing Bond has lost is the "class" and its not just Bond, its the modern UK no longer has it either. Old Bond was at the end of an era in TV and the UK where some of the old class system still hung about. Today a lot of it is gone, there are still bits here and there, but its far more muted than it once was.

Sure we still have things like fox hunting (now drag hunting not actual fox hunting) but even those who take part are no longer the "upper class" and vary from just the super-rich to being a general everyone at the local ponyclub comes out for the day.


I think that is one thing they are missing which bleeds into the whole structure of the old style of Bond. Ontop of that its a bit like the Simpsons - Bond has done most things that Bond needed to do to work as a film. Stretching it out mostly sees Bond either adapting to things so new that they are nothing like "bond" or rehashing things of the past.


I've felt for a long while that Bond has run his course and should be let out to retire and pave the way open for a new modern spy thriller that adapts and creates a new character who is free to develop their own way in a different world. Bond is of the old world and much like you can't keep Dad's Army going past the end of WW2 you can't keep Bond going.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/22 00:44:20


Post by: Xenomancers


As far as bond goes - the new age ones are all really good. All the Brosnan films were cool. Specter is just the worst of them.

As far as the older ones go - they are a little before my time. They don't age very well. I have the same opinion about them as I do about Original startrek. At the time I bet they were great but film is just so much better these days.

Unlike Music - Music from this time period is 10 times better than the stuff being produced today.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/23 00:31:52


Post by: Elbows


I'd kinda/sorta mostlly agree with you - however the music is a little misleading. We only really hear the good and great music from the 50's, 60's, 70's, etc. I'm a huge Etta James, Otis Redding fan, etc. I agree a lot of modern music is absolute gak, but we're biased because we don't hear most of the poor music from the past. We just get the highlight reel.

I'd say of the last twenty years there have been three stand-out Bond films for me. Goldeneye, Casino Royale, and Skyfall. I think the Craig films were more solid as a whole (though Spectre was the worst). Even the oft-lamented Quantum of Solace has some really fantastic Bond moments, but was dropped on its head with a lame eco-terrorism plot and a super crappy ending. The chases, action scenes, etc. though always surprise me when I re-watch it.

The later Brosnan films were...pretty cringy, but Goldeneye is just a perfect blend of the "more serious" new school, and yet the same campy fun/sarcasm as the old school. Oh, and while we're on the topic. License to Kill, Power weapons on Facility, no Oddjob.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/24 16:50:05


Post by: Easy E


When I re-watched QoS it amazes me how tightly it links to Casino Royale.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/24 17:24:16


Post by: Ctaylor


QoS was better than Spectre. Or at least more entertaining. Skyfall was bad, the entire plot relied on the bad guy being able to accurately predict every single persons actions. Lazy writing.

Since CR, there had not been a good Bond villain. Or story.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/24 17:25:28


Post by: Gitzbitah


If they do recast James Bond, they definitely need someone with a proper mix of offputting charm, and the ability to be incredibly menacing. I'd love to see someone like Jason Statham or Karl Urban given a crack at it.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/24 17:28:46


Post by: Xenomancers


 Elbows wrote:
I'd kinda/sorta mostlly agree with you - however the music is a little misleading. We only really hear the good and great music from the 50's, 60's, 70's, etc. I'm a huge Etta James, Otis Redding fan, etc. I agree a lot of modern music is absolute gak, but we're biased because we don't hear most of the poor music from the past. We just get the highlight reel.

I'd say of the last twenty years there have been three stand-out Bond films for me. Goldeneye, Casino Royale, and Skyfall. I think the Craig films were more solid as a whole (though Spectre was the worst). Even the oft-lamented Quantum of Solace has some really fantastic Bond moments, but was dropped on its head with a lame eco-terrorism plot and a super crappy ending. The chases, action scenes, etc. though always surprise me when I re-watch it.

The later Brosnan films were...pretty cringy, but Goldeneye is just a perfect blend of the "more serious" new school, and yet the same campy fun/sarcasm as the old school. Oh, and while we're on the topic. License to Kill, Power weapons on Facility, no Oddjob.

Proximity mines! MUAHAHA.

Yeah I agree - Casion Royale and Goldeneye are my favs during my time. Then it's a tos up with QoS and Skyfall or maybe even Die Another Day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oStJL39dVUs
Always liked this song


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gitzbitah wrote:
If they do recast James Bond, they definitely need someone with a proper mix of offputting charm, and the ability to be incredibly menacing. I'd love to see someone like Jason Statham or Karl Urban given a crack at it.

Statham might be going too far. Before Craig there was a lot of hype about a possible Gerard Butler cast as Bond. I think that would have been pretty incredible. Also - good call on Urban - I think I'd rather seem him as bond more than Butler.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/24 22:17:58


Post by: Easy E


I have always thought Clive Owen would be good.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 00:41:02


Post by: Compel


I can't help but think Shoot 'Em up probably killed Owen's chances of Bond.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 15:19:05


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I was under the impression that film was a response to his being passed over for the role.

Statham's too gruff - Bond's smoother than that - and Gerry Butler? No thanks.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 18:55:31


Post by: Dreadwinter


I think Clive Owen would make an interesting Bond. Definitely different from what we are used to.

I think Statham would make an awful bond. He would be AMAZING in a Kingsmen movie though. So I hope he does get in to some secret agent shenanigans soon.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 18:58:14


Post by: Mr Morden


Tom Hiddlestone might be looknig for role if Loki is dead


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 19:34:56


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Mr Morden wrote:
Tom Hiddlestone might be looknig for role if Loki is dead


while he certainly brings the "sexy" into the role. . .does he bring the "action star" that the role seems to require these days?? IMHO, even his role as Loki didn't involve as much action as the Brosnan (much less Craig) Bond, so I'm not entirely sure he'd be fit for that role.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 19:40:29


Post by: Commander Cain


I'm still in the Idris Elba camp for Bond, he has good range and would do quite a bit to freshen up the franchise by injecting a bit of dry humour and charm. The fact that we know Craig absolutely hates the role is offputting not to mention that Spectre was the most forgettable Bond movie I have seen.

Urban would be a good contender as well, I thought he was great in Dredd and he is a pretty underused actor.

I also have to agree with the comments saying that the Bond movies seem a bit lost in the modern day. I would love to see them go back to the Cold War era when Britain was still a significant player on the world stage. I loved all the old cars, chunky technology and wacky plotlines. The character just seems to fit much better in a colonial environment, where he could be more arrogant and aloof.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 19:51:07


Post by: Mr Morden


Spinning off the Superman - how about Henry Cavile - great in Man from Uncle and will draw the ladies....


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/25 19:52:47


Post by: Easy E


 Dreadwinter wrote:
I think Clive Owen would make an interesting Bond. Definitely different from what we are used to.

I think Statham would make an awful bond. He would be AMAZING in a Kingsmen movie though. So I hope he does get in to some secret agent shenanigans soon.


He played a spy in a Melissa McCarthy vehicle called Spy and he sank his teeth into the role. Possibly the best part of the movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Commander Cain wrote:
I'm still in the Idris Elba camp for Bond,


Another good choice.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/27 09:21:00


Post by: tneva82


 Mr Morden wrote:
Start again and either go for something different like a black guy or a woman (Atomic Blonde was also better) or go retro and try to match the recent Man from Uncle - not sure they will.


Ugh no. Why everything needs to be changed to female/black/whatever? The character was originally designed as certain kind. Keep it. If you are just more black/women roles make up new stories with new characters than redoing old ones with new type.

Sheesh. If Bond requires such a recasting to work just let the series go out in style and come up with new stories and characters. You aren't even talking about Bond in anything but name.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/27 09:24:53


Post by: Mr Morden


tneva82 wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Start again and either go for something different like a black guy or a woman (Atomic Blonde was also better) or go retro and try to match the recent Man from Uncle - not sure they will.


Ugh no. Why everything needs to be changed to female/black/whatever? The character was originally designed as certain kind. Keep it. If you are just more black/women roles make up new stories with new characters than redoing old ones with new type.

Sheesh. If Bond requires such a recasting to work just let the series go out in style and come up with new stories and characters. You aren't even talking about Bond in anything but name.


All the Bond actors have been very different, I think they need to have a hard refresh - that was only one option I put out there.

Actually rather than black I would have thought Asian would work well given importance of the Indian community in the UK, but it may have already been done on Bollywood.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/27 09:25:40


Post by: Overread


tneva82 wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Start again and either go for something different like a black guy or a woman (Atomic Blonde was also better) or go retro and try to match the recent Man from Uncle - not sure they will.


Ugh no. Why everything needs to be changed to female/black/whatever? The character was originally designed as certain kind. Keep it. If you are just more black/women roles make up new stories with new characters than redoing old ones with new type.

Sheesh. If Bond requires such a recasting to work just let the series go out in style and come up with new stories and characters. You aren't even talking about Bond in anything but name.


I have to agree, I never really like it when producers decide that the best way to give a new group a "leading role model character" is to take an existing one and just change them. A "black bond" or a "female bond" or such, to me, actually insults rather than anything else. I'd rather see a totally new character with their own quirks, charms and style that is fully free to be their own thing; rather than a character that is hobbled to tropes and styles of another and is basically just trying to be a cosmetic change.

Because either they will change everything and the name and style just seem odd or they change hardly anything and that character never achieves what the change should have brought.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/27 11:00:44


Post by: tneva82


 Overread wrote:
I have to agree, I never really like it when producers decide that the best way to give a new group a "leading role model character" is to take an existing one and just change them. A "black bond" or a "female bond" or such, to me, actually insults rather than anything else. I'd rather see a totally new character with their own quirks, charms and style that is fully free to be their own thing; rather than a character that is hobbled to tropes and styles of another and is basically just trying to be a cosmetic change.

Because either they will change everything and the name and style just seem odd or they change hardly anything and that character never achieves what the change should have brought.


It would be just trying to play it safe for money. Rather than take a risk with new story and characters try to make easy money by utilizing name of old character/franchise even if nothing in it actually is of the existing. It would be just making money with name "Bond" attached to...well anything really.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/27 16:02:02


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


tneva82 wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I have to agree, I never really like it when producers decide that the best way to give a new group a "leading role model character" is to take an existing one and just change them. A "black bond" or a "female bond" or such, to me, actually insults rather than anything else. I'd rather see a totally new character with their own quirks, charms and style that is fully free to be their own thing; rather than a character that is hobbled to tropes and styles of another and is basically just trying to be a cosmetic change.

Because either they will change everything and the name and style just seem odd or they change hardly anything and that character never achieves what the change should have brought.


It would be just trying to play it safe for money. Rather than take a risk with new story and characters try to make easy money by utilizing name of old character/franchise even if nothing in it actually is of the existing. It would be just making money with name "Bond" attached to...well anything really.



As a question, would you be OK with a [insert non-white male, potentially female person] playing the role of 007, provided they do not take the Bond name?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/27 19:05:04


Post by: Compel


I've always liked going for, "did <Newspaper Columnist> complain when Bond was made blonde?"

As my watermark for 'assume noble intent.'


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/28 03:45:12


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Easy E wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
I think Clive Owen would make an interesting Bond. Definitely different from what we are used to.

I think Statham would make an awful bond. He would be AMAZING in a Kingsmen movie though. So I hope he does get in to some secret agent shenanigans soon.


He played a spy in a Melissa McCarthy vehicle called Spy and he sank his teeth into the role. Possibly the best part of the movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Commander Cain wrote:
I'm still in the Idris Elba camp for Bond,


Another good choice.


Being A spy is different from being THE spy.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/28 08:11:14


Post by: Mr Morden


 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
I think Clive Owen would make an interesting Bond. Definitely different from what we are used to.

I think Statham would make an awful bond. He would be AMAZING in a Kingsmen movie though. So I hope he does get in to some secret agent shenanigans soon.


He played a spy in a Melissa McCarthy vehicle called Spy and he sank his teeth into the role. Possibly the best part of the movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Commander Cain wrote:
I'm still in the Idris Elba camp for Bond,


Another good choice.


Being A spy is different from being THE spy.


According to Iron Man that's Nick Fury

I think Bond is still a good name but I think its lost the edge in being The Spy.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/28 10:07:35


Post by: tneva82


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I have to agree, I never really like it when producers decide that the best way to give a new group a "leading role model character" is to take an existing one and just change them. A "black bond" or a "female bond" or such, to me, actually insults rather than anything else. I'd rather see a totally new character with their own quirks, charms and style that is fully free to be their own thing; rather than a character that is hobbled to tropes and styles of another and is basically just trying to be a cosmetic change.

Because either they will change everything and the name and style just seem odd or they change hardly anything and that character never achieves what the change should have brought.


It would be just trying to play it safe for money. Rather than take a risk with new story and characters try to make easy money by utilizing name of old character/franchise even if nothing in it actually is of the existing. It would be just making money with name "Bond" attached to...well anything really.



As a question, would you be OK with a [insert non-white male, potentially female person] playing the role of 007, provided they do not take the Bond name?


So basically another 007 in a movie not called Bond? Guess that would be bit easier to swallow depending on how much of trying to pigback on the Bond's shoulder it would be. 007 is already a bit but if that's literally only reference to Bond it would at least be bit more trying to ride on it's own feet than on Bond.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/28 11:49:05


Post by: Kilkrazy


The world has changed. There's no reason for Bond not to change too.

I would be happy with a black female Bond if they get the overall direction right. If you want to preserve the sexual predation of the original, she could be a cougar ripping her way through the metrosexual hipster office boys or something.

If you like the original (I do) his films won't vanish because a female actor takes over, any more than they vanished because a blond actor took over.

All the above being said, two of the reasons for the success of Mad Men were the depiction of the unreconstructed male dominated business culture of the time, and its contrast with modern sensibilities. I think there could be similar mileage in a "new" Bond set in the 1960s.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/28 12:07:02


Post by: tneva82


And why you can't have this women/black/whatever be new character with her/his/whatever stories?

Oh wait sorry. Forgot. It makes higher risk as you can't just do copy&paste another Bond but with new actor/actress and instead have to create movie that stands on it's own rather than name Bond.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/28 12:16:43


Post by: Kilkrazy


You could and there are different stories being made with women/black etc.

I don't see it as being lazy and standing on the Bond name, I see it as building on the Bond name to renew the series.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/29 16:15:20


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Kilkrazy wrote:
The world has changed. There's no reason for Bond not to change too.

I would be happy with a black female Bond if they get the overall direction right. If you want to preserve the sexual predation of the original, she could be a cougar ripping her way through the metrosexual hipster office boys or something.




Hell, how cool would it be if the next movie is basically Bond handing the reins over to Moneypenny and she becomes the next "00" agent in the series?? I've enjoyed Naomi Harris' character in the films she's in. . . she was willing to take the shot (albeit screwing up and getting James), she's snarky, smart, sexy, and generally seems like someone who'd be good in changing her roles up a bit with the organization


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/29 19:40:46


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


On Idris and that, I’ve always been under the impression that James Bond comes with the 007. Like Felix.

So we’ve actually, genuinely had different Bonds, rather than multiple actors playing the same bloke.

This also fits with M and Q. Clearly not their real names, just titles.

That all the Bond’s have been Orphans? Just a preferred recruitment method. No familial ties for the foe to exploit. Completely malleable young minds, ready to be made in sociopaths utterly loyal to Crown and Country.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/30 04:17:12


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Idris and that, I’ve always been under the impression that James Bond comes with the 007. Like Felix.

So we’ve actually, genuinely had different Bonds, rather than multiple actors playing the same bloke.

This also fits with M and Q. Clearly not their real names, just titles.

That all the Bond’s have been Orphans? Just a preferred recruitment method. No familial ties for the foe to exploit. Completely malleable young minds, ready to be made in sociopaths utterly loyal to Crown and Country.


Maybe. . . however the Craig movies have "reset" the timeline as it were and so they "replace" what, Dr. No??


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/30 19:22:30


Post by: Ctaylor


Yeah, sadly the Craig movies dispensed with the 007/James Bond as a job title theory. I thought the James Bond is just a codename for different operatives was clever, but Skyfall makes it pretty clear thats not the way it works in the Craigiverse.

I’ve never thought it important. Actors age, but Bond is timeless.

And I would definitely watch Idris in the role. The man can act and has the charisma and charm to play the part. Give me good stories, well directed and entertaining action - the rest can sort itself out.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/09/30 19:36:04


Post by: Kilkrazy


I am not a slave to someone's concept of blah blah blah -verse canon poo and I don't think Cubby Broccoli is either.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/10/01 10:47:36


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I think Idris Elba would be a good choice for Bond because he's a good actor. The fact that he's black is irrelevant, really.

As long as a Bond movie feels like a Bond movie, it doesn't really matter if it connects to the others in terms of plot and the like, really.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/10/30 16:36:29


Post by: Easy E


Last night I sat down and re-watched Spectre. It was better the second time I watched it and without the hype.

That being said, it makes 0 sense for Daniel Craig to return in the next Bond film. Casino to Spectre were a nice four arc storyline of Bond growing and developing as a character and has a great "Hero's Journey" built into it. The end of Spectre is the end of this journey.

I would not want ot be the writer that has to continue from where Spectre left off thematically for the Character. I suppose they could show another descent into Hell type moment but that was done in Skyfall and his return is his redemption as a hero figure after falling off the wagon in Quantum of Solace?

We know the Craig Bond's backstory so there is no place to go there, so it has to go forward into his future..... which does not bode well for the future of Madeline Swan.

Alternatively, Bond could just be just the official identity of 007 even though the actual agents change. Now that we know Bond's back story, it almost makes sense to get a whole new Bond with a new backstory to explore.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/10/30 16:52:00


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Easy E wrote:

Alternatively, Bond could just be just the official identity of 007 even though the actual agents change. Now that we know Bond's back story, it almost makes sense to get a whole new Bond with a new backstory to explore.


This is kinda where I've been. . . We know that 007 is a file/badge/code or whatever kind of number. IIRC, in the book, or maybe one of the first movies it's briefly mentioned about the previous 007. So this bond movie could easily be Intro Credits, Bond meeting new git, M says, "007, meet 007, you'll be training [him/her] so try to behave", 10 minutes in to "training" Bond gets whacked by plot twist and baby-007 is left to try and learn the tricks of the trade without Bond, but with the help of Q and moneypenny and crew.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/01 11:25:09


Post by: Backfire


I do not submit to the idea that changing the gender or ethnicity of character makes it more 'interesting' or 'modern'. I think it is weak writing and only artistically bankrupt hacks resort to that.

I mean, say you want a new type of vampire killing superhero character. The options are:
-take estabilished, old character and change gender & ethnicity. Keep name and everything else.
-or make a whole new character vaguely based on same concept.

First option gives us white, female Blade.

Second option gives us Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Do I even need to elaborate my point further?

Anyways, I do agree that idea of Craig making another Bond is hardly exciting. SPECTRE concluded the story - albeit in crappy, lazily written way, but did anyway. What is likely to come out is something akin to Die Another Day, going-through-motions afterthought for Craigs career as a Bond.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/01 13:02:50


Post by: AndrewGPaul


It means you're not restricting your casting choices to a subset of actors.

For example, Idris Elba is frequently held up as an example of someone who'd make a good Bond, but he's black. Why should that matter if he'd be well-suited to the character?

Being English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, tall, short, dark-haired, blond hasn't mattered to the character or the casting agents, so why does the melanin count in Bond's epidermis matter?

As for Daniel Craig after Spectre? That film ended on a high, so the next film could work as the coda to that. Handing over the codename could work as Ensis Ferrae suggests, or you could have Bond's last mission end in a promotion (not to M; that'd be a bit corny. Moscow section chief maybe?), retirement or death. get Craig offscreen, then end with M talking to a new agent; mid-briefing, and end with "so, any questions, Bond?" If you want to play with the idea that all Bonds aren't the same person, then have Bond die with no body recovered, and show that briefing from behind the agent's chair (a tall armchair so you can't see him), and lift the camera so you can see the top of the new agent's head, but only from behind; cut to "Bond will return in ..." Or just be open about it and show the new actor.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/01 22:01:37


Post by: Backfire


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It means you're not restricting your casting choices to a subset of actors.

For example, Idris Elba is frequently held up as an example of someone who'd make a good Bond, but he's black. Why should that matter if he'd be well-suited to the character?

Being English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, tall, short, dark-haired, blond hasn't mattered to the character or the casting agents, so why does the melanin count in Bond's epidermis matter?


Bond is a spy, who needs to be able to infiltrate various organizations in Europe or Russia, most of whom have very few or no non-European members. If he was a non-Caucasian, he would be very distinct in those environments and those tasks would be next to impossible. Black or Asian person would hard to write to many typical Bond stories.
When you have a character who is very much tied to certain background, people usually expect that the actor in question also has appearence matching expectations for that background. Not too many people are interested about seeing black Wallander, white Shaft, or non-Asian Zatoichi either. Or say, Morgan Freeman playing Vito Corleone.


Just look at how much complaints Hollywood gets about 'whitewashing'. It's a two-way street.






New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/02 06:36:39


Post by: Dreadwinter


Fun Fact: The second scene of Casino Royale was set in Uganda


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/02 08:00:49


Post by: A Town Called Malus


Fun fact. Bond was sent to investigate drug traffickers operating in Harlem in Live and Let Die (I think, the one with Mr Big as the main villain).

Because a white british guy in a saville row suit was totally not out of place there.

Or his mission in Japan during You Only Live Twice. Or how about Jamaica in Dr No?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/02 08:57:06


Post by: Backfire


 Easy E wrote:
L
Alternatively, Bond could just be just the official identity of 007 even though the actual agents change. Now that we know Bond's back story, it almost makes sense to get a whole new Bond with a new backstory to explore.


No, you can't do that. Bond has specific character background which includes Scottish father, Swiss mother, Skyfall farm in Scotland and family motto "World is Not Enough". You can't wipe out that without destroying the character, just like you can't just decide that Superman is actually some guy from Natal, South Africa who got his powers from radioactive accident.
007 designation is for what you mean, but Bond is Bond.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Fun Fact: The second scene of Casino Royale was set in Uganda


And what did he do? That's right, stood out like sore thumb amongst the locals and had to resort to extreme violence.

By the way, Bond undertook cultural training for his Japan mission, so he would learn to dress and act like a Japanese person so he wouldn't attract so much attention. He even attempted to pass for a local (failed, of course).


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/02 12:32:51


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Backfire wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It means you're not restricting your casting choices to a subset of actors.

For example, Idris Elba is frequently held up as an example of someone who'd make a good Bond, but he's black. Why should that matter if he'd be well-suited to the character?

Being English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, tall, short, dark-haired, blond hasn't mattered to the character or the casting agents, so why does the melanin count in Bond's epidermis matter?


Bond is a spy, who needs to be able to infiltrate various organizations in Europe or Russia, most of whom have very few or no non-European members. If he was a non-Caucasian, he would be very distinct in those environments and those tasks would be next to impossible.



Because Bond's famous for being a master of accents? He's going to stick out as much in a Russian criminal organisation (or the IRA, for that matter) as he would in the Lord's Resistance Army. And given that he usually meets the heads of these enterprises face-to-face at the beginning of the film, infiltration isn't usually a concern.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/02 23:06:08


Post by: Mr Morden


Backfire wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
L
Alternatively, Bond could just be just the official identity of 007 even though the actual agents change. Now that we know Bond's back story, it almost makes sense to get a whole new Bond with a new backstory to explore.


No, you can't do that. Bond has specific character background which includes Scottish father, Swiss mother, Skyfall farm in Scotland and family motto "World is Not Enough". You can't wipe out that without destroying the character, just like you can't just decide that Superman is actually some guy from Natal, South Africa who got his powers from radioactive accident.
007 designation is for what you mean, but Bond is Bond..


Most of which was just made up for that film which defeats your own argument

Bond has been played by radically different actors - it worked before - it will work again.

A new version of Superman could be black or asian - there is no reason why a Kryptonian would be white (or wouldn;t be)


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/02 23:13:18


Post by: Compel


It's worth pointing out that the current General Zod on television is black.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/03 01:14:40


Post by: Lance845


Backfire wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It means you're not restricting your casting choices to a subset of actors.

For example, Idris Elba is frequently held up as an example of someone who'd make a good Bond, but he's black. Why should that matter if he'd be well-suited to the character?

Being English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, tall, short, dark-haired, blond hasn't mattered to the character or the casting agents, so why does the melanin count in Bond's epidermis matter?


Bond is a spy, who needs to be able to infiltrate various organizations in Europe or Russia, most of whom have very few or no non-European members. If he was a non-Caucasian, he would be very distinct in those environments and those tasks would be next to impossible. Black or Asian person would hard to write to many typical Bond stories.
When you have a character who is very much tied to certain background, people usually expect that the actor in question also has appearence matching expectations for that background. Not too many people are interested about seeing black Wallander, white Shaft, or non-Asian Zatoichi either. Or say, Morgan Freeman playing Vito Corleone.


Just look at how much complaints Hollywood gets about 'whitewashing'. It's a two-way street.






What a dumb argument.

This



Is sean connery bond infiltrating Japan (one of the most racially pure countries in the world with a long history of isolationism) in You Only Live Twice as a 6ft tall scott pretending to be a native Japanese.

Lets not pretend that a black guy infiltrating places is the most outlandish thing we would see on screen. Or even outlandish at all... In any capacity.

Also, its not the same as white washing. White washing is giving basically all but select unimportant or goofy roles to white people. Casting idris alba as bond is giving a good actor who would be great in the role a part he is suited for based on acting talent.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/03 11:59:34


Post by: Backfire


 Mr Morden wrote:
Backfire wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
L
Alternatively, Bond could just be just the official identity of 007 even though the actual agents change. Now that we know Bond's back story, it almost makes sense to get a whole new Bond with a new backstory to explore.


No, you can't do that. Bond has specific character background which includes Scottish father, Swiss mother, Skyfall farm in Scotland and family motto "World is Not Enough". You can't wipe out that without destroying the character, just like you can't just decide that Superman is actually some guy from Natal, South Africa who got his powers from radioactive accident.
007 designation is for what you mean, but Bond is Bond..


Most of which was just made up for that film which defeats your own argument


What film? All of the above was written by Ian Fleming (well, except name of the Bond's farm, I don't think Fleming ever mentioned it).

 Mr Morden wrote:

A new version of Superman could be black or asian - there is no reason why a Kryptonian would be white (or wouldn;t be)


Irrelevant to the point I made.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:

Is sean connery bond infiltrating Japan (one of the most racially pure countries in the world with a long history of isolationism) in You Only Live Twice as a 6ft tall scott pretending to be a native Japanese.


...which, as I explained, had Bond undertake training on Japanese culture so he wouldn't stick out so much. The idea was not that he could pass for a native Japanese, just to make him somewhat less noticeable. In emergency he actually tried to pretend to be a mute Japanese man. He failed, of course, as Blofeld knew what he looked like. (I don't recall if that part was in the movie actually, it was in the book).

By the way, it is well estabilished that Bond can speak Russian and has sometimes pretended to be Russian. Most notably in "World is Not Enough".

 Lance845 wrote:

Also, its not the same as white washing. White washing is giving basically all but select unimportant or goofy roles to white people. Casting idris alba as bond is giving a good actor who would be great in the role a part he is suited for based on acting talent.


So, are you cool if remake of Shaft has Jason Statham as lead actor?

Because I would not, for all the same reasons I outlined here. And I suspect most of the people calling for black Bond would not either, but for different reasons.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/03 12:36:13


Post by: Lance845


Backfire wrote:

So, are you cool if remake of Shaft has Jason Statham as lead actor?


feth Statham. Michael Cera. I agree with Donald Glover. It would be hilarious.

Because I would not, for all the same reasons I outlined here. And I suspect most of the people calling for black Bond would not either, but for different reasons.


But a serious answer, you missed what actually is a problem about recasting race again.

Is the characters race important to the character? Does the race define them? Their trials and tribulations?

Shaft is defined by being black in the black sploitation era. His character is inherently tied up in his skin color. People treat him a certain way because of his skin color. Luke Cage is the same. He wouldn't BE Luke Cage if he wasn't black. If they are not black they are not the same person. Bond's skin color doesn't actually change anything about Bond. It doesn't define him in any way. Bond's personality doesn't even need to stay consistent because different bonds have had wildly different personalities. None of which have been consistent with the books.


ALSO, Shaft is not = to Bond. Bond is a super spy and kind of a super hero who goes on adventures and has exciting times. Shaft is a black guy from a ghetto that sometimes hits women. You are not stealing something people have a fondness for by recasting Shaft.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/03 13:01:06


Post by: Mr Morden


Backfire wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Backfire wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
L
Alternatively, Bond could just be just the official identity of 007 even though the actual agents change. Now that we know Bond's back story, it almost makes sense to get a whole new Bond with a new backstory to explore.


No, you can't do that. Bond has specific character background which includes Scottish father, Swiss mother, Skyfall farm in Scotland and family motto "World is Not Enough". You can't wipe out that without destroying the character, just like you can't just decide that Superman is actually some guy from Natal, South Africa who got his powers from radioactive accident.
007 designation is for what you mean, but Bond is Bond..


Most of which was just made up for that film which defeats your own argument


What film? All of the above was written by Ian Fleming (well, except name of the Bond's farm, I don't think Fleming ever mentioned it)..


Ok - not read the books for ages - so on how many of the films was this relevant and mentioned?

You realise that there is a superman version who crashed in Russia right?

The Shaft comparison has already been covered.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/04 00:48:20


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I'd love to see a bunch of Bonds in the same movie, like Dalton, Brosnan, Craig, Elba, and maybe Connery all have to work together to defeat the Daleks Spectre. Or go full Crisis of Infinite Bonds and have a few women Bonds, differently able Bonds, Kid Bonds, and one sassy robot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...like maybe Bond is sent to investigating why the rad-hardened records of British Intelligence don't match public records or even agents' memories regarding the existence of President Ron Silver's enemies, and he keeps getting recast as the movie progresses, as James Bond is a legacy code name that transfers to the next viable candidate as each successive Bond is wiped from history. Then all the former Bonds begin to get involved, having received cryptic letters. About two thirds through the movie, Bond uses a device from Q to scramble the time machine and all sorts of hijacks ensue, with previous Bonds popping into existence and alternate timeline Bonds, and who knows, a dinosaur? Why not. In the end they take on Silver's army of future cyborg spetznatz, bed Marty McFly's mom (spawning another James Bond), pull a Wyld Stallyns, and end with a dry quip. The movie writes itself.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/04 03:23:37


Post by: Hollow


I have found Craig's outings as Bond to be decidedly average. They are littered with cool moments, scenes and imagery but have left me feeling pretty numb. Making Bond black just strikes me a one of those condescending gestures made to make black people seem 'included'.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/04 07:12:10


Post by: DeffDred


Reading all this has made me realise something...
People actually watch Bond films. I always thought they were an over-long advertisement for a car, a watch, a suit and a new and upcoming actress that never really makes it.

I've seen maybe 4 or 5 Bond films. Golden Eye (64!) and some of the Craig ones. Personally, I find them all painfully boring. I'm firmly in the "Stop making these movies" camp.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/04 09:30:20


Post by: Mr Morden


 Hollow wrote:
I have found Craig's outings as Bond to be decidedly average. They are littered with cool moments, scenes and imagery but have left me feeling pretty numb. Making Bond black just strikes me a one of those condescending gestures made to make black people seem 'included'.


I found the first Craig outing quite good, the second was pretty bad and the next two went downhill further.

They tried too hard to be Bourne like - whilst Mission Impossible did a much better job of caputring the style and "fun" of Bond.

Black,White, Asain guy (or girl) etc could be a "Bond" - wouldn't bother me as long as it was fun action ride.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/06 00:38:39


Post by: Easy E


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'd love to see a bunch of Bonds in the same movie, like Dalton, Brosnan, Craig, Elba, and maybe Connery all have to work together to defeat the Daleks Spectre. Or go full Crisis of Infinite Bonds and have a few women Bonds, differently able Bonds, Kid Bonds, and one sassy robot.




The original Casino Royale movie did this. It was actually suppose to be a comedy.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/06 00:46:45


Post by: Lance845


It WAS pretty hilarious when he got whipped in the nuts with a rope with a knot in it.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/07 00:41:21


Post by: Easy E


 Lance845 wrote:
It WAS pretty hilarious when he got whipped in the nuts with a rope with a knot in it.


I don't recall that happening to Peter Sellers.....




https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061452/


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/07 18:54:16


Post by: Backfire


 Hollow wrote:
I have found Craig's outings as Bond to be decidedly average. They are littered with cool moments, scenes and imagery but have left me feeling pretty numb.


They (Casino) royally screwed the pooch after first movie. CR was so promising - it was close to Fleming's original Bond in both plot and style, good casting, good action AND it hinted to longer storyline continuity - something Bond movies never quite managed to pull off before. Ooh the intrigue!
And then Quantum of Solace came out and it was so BAD. Boring generic villain, boring generic action and Bond was fighting for...60% cheaper tap water for Bolivians. Oh man. And in epic ending scene, villain base's solar panels blew up. How does that even work?
Skyfall was okay for what it was, but it was obvious that they had abandoned the 'continuity'. It was back to throwaway villains. SPECTRE had just throwaway villain who was retconned to have been behind everything. So what they can do for next one, knowing it is Craig's last outing? Another throwaway villain.
I mean, maybe it is GOOD, no reason it can't, but my hopes are not up. And as someone said, knowing that Craig is just filling up the contract is off-putting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr Morden wrote:

You realise that there is a superman version who crashed in Russia right?


And he still was from Krypton and got his powers from our yellow sun. He was not some Belarussian dude who got showered by radioactive materials in some horrible nuclear accident, or anything like that.
Also, that was AU story. Of course you can always go crazy there (Batman of that timeline was badass).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:

But a serious answer, you missed what actually is a problem about recasting race again.

Is the characters race important to the character? Does the race define them? Their trials and tribulations?

Shaft is defined by being black in the black sploitation era. His character is inherently tied up in his skin color. People treat him a certain way because of his skin color. Luke Cage is the same. He wouldn't BE Luke Cage if he wasn't black. If they are not black they are not the same person. Bond's skin color doesn't actually change anything about Bond. It doesn't define him in any way. Bond's personality doesn't even need to stay consistent because different bonds have had wildly different personalities. None of which have been consistent with the books.


I do not see Bond any different. Bond is very much a symbol of "old England" (which is ironic given he is not English), a last shining knight of a dying British Empire. In original books he was WW2 vet too, although Fleming already sorta introduced "sliding timescale" and it was forgotten in the movies too. Basically these are character-defining traits where it is very hard to fit a Black or Asian man. He is also somewhat of a chauvinist, so how do you cast Bond as a woman? One of the intrigues of the Bond in modern days is that he is a dinosaur, a relic of a bygone era. This device was especially employed in Brosnan era movies.

Now, one could always argue that that kind of character is outdated and not going to interest modern audiences anymore. I definitely agree there are some famous characters which are probably past that line: for example characters like Tarzan and Phantom who are very much based on the idea of superior innate abilities of Anglosaxon white man in any environment. But the solution there is not attempt to 'modernize' the characters but simply to retire them and think up new ones. Who possibly would want to see a black Tarzan? Now, maybe one could do a sort of 'reverse Tarzan' where an African man is marooned on Europe and becomes a king because he is so badass. Now when I think about it, that might be cool.

The thing is, when you start tampering with a character it is very likely it will lose the characteristics which made it popular in the first place. Name or title "James Bond" doesn't make a character. Nor does being a spy who shoots bad guys and scores hot chicks. Anglo-American popular literature has dozens upon dozens of such characters. Most of them are completely forgettable and only very few have achieved popularity which could be even remotely compared to that of Bond. Jason Bourne and Dirk Pitt perhaps come to mind. But even Bourne is far from iconic status of Bond. Something in the James Bond character has resonated with people, makes him cut above the pack, and if you start changing him too much, you are likely to lose the 'Midas Touch' within.

Can't resist to mention my favourite example of this, Ang Lee's Hulk (2003). One of the core concepts of Hulk character was that Bruce Banner was mostly responsible from the events which made him Hulk. It was Fate's sweet irony. Sure thing, maybe his donkey-cave father had messed up his psyche and maybe the military was pushing him to direction he might have not otherwise taken and that idiot Rick Jones showed up to mess everything, but in the end, he designed the bomb and pressed the button and did so willingly.

But Ang Lee's Hulk made him completely a victim. It was all his dad, and some bad luck. He was not at fault in any of the stuff what happened to him. He bore none of the responsibility and it made him so BORING. It was just not Bruce Banner, The Hulk anymore. It was just some generic muscle guy who happened to be green.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 04:35:44


Post by: Dreadwinter


Are you claiming that because Bond was originally a WW2 vet, he can no longer be Black or Asian? Are you under the impression all WW2 vets are white?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 06:03:17


Post by: Lance845


@Backfire, thats a load of crap.

Look at your examples man.

Your talking about Tarzan being black or a black guy ending up in Europe. It's not about him being black. The skin color doesn't matter is the point.

Tarzan can LITERALLY be any race and it would not change his character because his character is not informed by his skin color. Tarzan's primary character trait is raised by apes. If it's a dude raised by apes then it's Tarzan. Example, book tarzan is a genius who taught himself how to read, invented rope, and learned a new language (French) in a matter of days when speaking a language for the first time. Basically every cinematic version of Tarzan has ditched how unbelievably intelligent Tarzan is. Guess what? Still Tarzan.

Seriously. Look at how many different versions of Robinhood there are. He's goofy, hes serious, hes a solider, hes not a soldier, his personality is all over the shop, it's all kinds of gak. Wanna know why it's all okay and they are all Robinhood? Because his primary character traits is good with bow, steal from rich, give to poor. Anyone who does that can be robinhood.

Bond, 007, gadgets or subverted with jokey lack there of. Goes on mission. Elaborate enemy plot. Bangs some chick he meets in the movie.

Any race can do that. And a female can role reversal it.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 12:52:41


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Lance845 wrote:
Look at how many different versions of Robinhood there are.


No! I WONT AND YOU CANNOT MAKE ME! MEN IN TIGHTS IS THE ONLY ROBINHOOD FOR ME!

(Also the Disney one)


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 13:22:27


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


Errol Flynn supported by Basil Rathbone is the only correct answer.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 17:27:29


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Errol Flynn supported by Basil Rathbone is the only correct answer.


Ah man. There was a product is news and rumors called Wrathborne, and I really wanted to make a Basil Rathbone joke but didn't because I thought no one would know who he was. Should have made the joke.

As for Blackfire's post, I was more confused by him stating that Superman comes from the planet Krypton, and therefore can't be nonwhite. Huh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Are you claiming that because Bond was originally a WW2 vet, he can no longer be Black or Asian? Are you under the impression all WW2 vets are white?


How would that work out today? Falkland Islands Vet?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 19:05:22


Post by: simonr1978


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

How would that work out today? Falkland Islands Vet?


Most Falklands Vets will be in their late fifties to early sixties by now so that's probably be pushing it for any Bond movie not set in the 1990s. Op Granby (Desert Storm to most of the rest of the world) is probably as far back as you could go but even then the youngest veterans of that would be in their mid-late forties. Either Telic or Herrick (Iraq and Afghanistan) would probably be more likely.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/08 19:09:09


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Errol Flynn supported by Basil Rathbone is the only correct answer.


Ah man. There was a product is news and rumors called Wrathborne, and I really wanted to make a Basil Rathbone joke but didn't because I thought no one would know who he was. Should have made the joke.

As for Blackfire's post, I was more confused by him stating that Superman comes from the planet Krypton, and therefore can't be nonwhite. Huh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Are you claiming that because Bond was originally a WW2 vet, he can no longer be Black or Asian? Are you under the impression all WW2 vets are white?


How would that work out today? Falkland Islands Vet?


I enjoy Rathbone's work a lot actually. Got a complete collection of his Sherlock movies at home. I'm no comic guy, but wasn't there a DC event or crossover or something not long long ago where the main character was a black Superman?

In regards to Bond, for legacy's sake, i'd like to see him stay traditional, as i think making him black or a woman or a minority would be lazy frankly and just screams of "look, look how diverse we're being". I'd much rather see a new character be they a woman, black, Asian and grow their own characters and franchise that i could enjoy for another thirty plus years. Atomic Blonde comes to mind, that 's a movie that could be grown out into a franchise with a little care.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/10 08:18:21


Post by: Kilkrazy


 DeffDred wrote:
Reading all this has made me realise something...
People actually watch Bond films. I always thought they were an over-long advertisement for a car, a watch, a suit and a new and upcoming actress that never really makes it.

I've seen maybe 4 or 5 Bond films. Golden Eye (64!) and some of the Craig ones. Personally, I find them all painfully boring. I'm firmly in the "Stop making these movies" camp.


Whatever genre of film you want to pick, there will be people who find them boring.

Consequence: stop making all films, or else continue making all films and let people not watch the ones they don't want to watch.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/10 09:55:15


Post by: Peregrine


 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
In regards to Bond, for legacy's sake, i'd like to see him stay traditional, as i think making him black or a woman or a minority would be lazy frankly and just screams of "look, look how diverse we're being". I'd much rather see a new character be they a woman, black, Asian and grow their own characters and franchise that i could enjoy for another thirty plus years. Atomic Blonde comes to mind, that 's a movie that could be grown out into a franchise with a little care.


Why is it "traditional" for Bond to be a white dude? Arguably the masculinity is part of the character (though a woman might put an interesting variant on the role, while keeping most of the same qualities) but race? Nothing about him as a character is tied to race. As long as it's a British black dude or whatever as Bond you still have the exact same character.

(And TBH, with a franchise as long and thoroughly covered as the Bond movies, you really have to ask why another one is needed if you're starting from the premise that you have to keep everything the same as the 9999999 previous movies.)


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/10 12:03:52


Post by: Dreadwinter


I would be upset if they came out and tried to do an American Bond in the CIA. I would be upset if they tried to do a Russian Bond in the KGB.

As long as they do a British Bond in Mi6, the rest doesn't really matter.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/10 12:30:59


Post by: Kilkrazy


Bond films have always updated throughout their 50 year history. Each one is set in the current era of whenever it was made. As such, a black or even a female Bond makes perfect sense in the early 21st century.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/10 12:49:22


Post by: Compel


I think it goes back to my theory of, "if you're upset about the idea of a Black Bond, then where we you being upset about the idea of a Blonde Bond?"

I mean, who can seriously doubt that, for example, a younger Colin Salmon wouldn't have the class and style to pull off an amazing Bond.

And, this might be a surprise but... Black people have been in the UK for a really long time (shock, gasp) and... could very feasibly have married into a house of old Nobility (as a random example, lets say, maybe a mixed race person marries into the House of Westminster), so the Andrew Bond, Skyfall backstory, if it ever were to even become relevant again, wouldn't necessarily need to change.

There would, perhaps, be some differences that could inform his character but, I think someone mentioned this earlier, like say, him being even more of an outsider amongst people and the Upper Classes, but a lot of that could just end up informing more of Bond's character.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/18 17:15:01


Post by: Backfire


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

As for Blackfire's post, I was more confused by him stating that Superman comes from the planet Krypton, and therefore can't be nonwhite. Huh?


I never said that. Please read more carefully.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/18 17:57:19


Post by: Mr Morden


 Dreadwinter wrote:
I would be upset if they came out and tried to do an American Bond in the CIA. I would be upset if they tried to do a Russian Bond in the KGB.

As long as they do a British Bond in Mi6, the rest doesn't really matter.


First Bond on film was American.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(Climax!)

I guess we have never been true to that vision....

And, this might be a surprise but... Black people have been in the UK for a really long time (shock, gasp) and... could very feasibly have married into a house of old Nobility (as a random example, lets say, maybe a mixed race person marries into the House of Westminster), so the Andrew Bond, Skyfall backstory, if it ever were to even become relevant again, wouldn't necessarily need to change.


Indeed they have.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/18 18:17:24


Post by: Backfire


 Lance845 wrote:
@Backfire, thats a load of crap.

Look at your examples man.

Your talking about Tarzan being black or a black guy ending up in Europe. It's not about him being black. The skin color doesn't matter is the point.

Tarzan can LITERALLY be any race and it would not change his character because his character is not informed by his skin color. Tarzan's primary character trait is raised by apes. If it's a dude raised by apes then it's Tarzan. Example, book tarzan is a genius who taught himself how to read, invented rope, and learned a new language (French) in a matter of days when speaking a language for the first time. Basically every cinematic version of Tarzan has ditched how unbelievably intelligent Tarzan is. Guess what? Still Tarzan.


Not so, many of the movies do feature sophisticated book Tarzan, most notably the latest. It's true that Johnny Weissmuller Tarzans had him as pretty much illiterate savage. Burroughs himself hated the depiction. The comic Tarzan was also almost invariably based on Burroughs Tarzan. It's easy to see why, a character so simplistic as MGM's depiction gets old real fast.
Even the Weissmuller Tarzan, stripped of almost all the defining Tarzan traits, was based around the novelty of seeing a white man as a 'savage'. He would not have been interesting to audiences if he had been a white man living in Europe like any other European.

No, merely being raised by apes doesn't make one Tarzan. Just like flying around in a cape in skies of Metropolis doesn't make you Superman, nor does being a spy who shoots bad guys makes you James Bond.

And please, lets not bring up the tired argument that "oh but James Bond has been depicted so differently already". Yep, and those depictions which were too different tended to be flops. Not too many people think nowadays that comical Moore gadgetry Bonds were pinnacle of the character. And 'License to Kill' where Bond was modernized as generic '80s action hero fighting generic '80s drug lord villain is one of the low points of the franchise. Especially when contrasted to 'Die Hard' which had all new fresh character who became almost as iconic as Bond.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
Look at how many different versions of Robinhood there are.


No! I WONT AND YOU CANNOT MAKE ME! MEN IN TIGHTS IS THE ONLY ROBINHOOD FOR ME!


Robin Hood is like 800 year old character and the origins are so vague that almost any trait can be ascribed to them.
Even then, I don't remember seeing any black Robin Hoods. Or female ones for that matter.

I guess you have at me in that many non-Hispanic actors have portrayed Zorro. No female Zorro though, although Queen of Swords is pretty much the same character.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/18 21:07:42


Post by: Mr Morden


And please, lets not bring up the tired argument that "oh but James Bond has been depicted so differently already". Yep, and those depictions which were too different tended to be flops. Not too many people think nowadays that comical Moore gadgetry Bonds were pinnacle of the character. And 'License to Kill' where Bond was modernized as generic '80s action hero fighting generic '80s drug lord villain is one of the low points of the franchise. Especially when contrasted to 'Die Hard' which had all new fresh character who became almost as iconic as Bond.


Much prefer Moore to the current snooze fest where its "Bourne" Bond and they ditch anything fun and plots lumbered around for so so long - like the 10 mph car chase in the last film. Bond has changed massively with the lead actors and what was popular.

It will be liked or disliked by some of us no matter who plays him. I seriously donlt see how the colour of his skin would matter a single bit.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/19 09:32:56


Post by: Backfire


 Peregrine wrote:

Why is it "traditional" for Bond to be a white dude? Arguably the masculinity is part of the character (though a woman might put an interesting variant on the role, while keeping most of the same qualities) but race?


"Female Bond" already exists: Modesty Blaise. Again, character of her own, instead of hackneyed attempt to change existing character to something 'new'.

To obvious counter-argument "but what if it wasn't hackneyed but really well written and done? Well, therein lies the core problem: good writers don't really do such a thing. They don't have to, they can come up with new and original characters.

 Peregrine wrote:

(And TBH, with a franchise as long and thoroughly covered as the Bond movies, you really have to ask why another one is needed if you're starting from the premise that you have to keep everything the same as the 9999999 previous movies.)


This question is much better reversed as: if everything about the character is changed but name, what's the point anymore really? For same effort you can make something new, without all the ballast and legacy associated with the old name. It will be much better that way.
Otherwise you will be seen just a greedy hack who tries to ride with a name recognition created by somebody other who was much better writer than you. Who wants that?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/19 12:31:27


Post by: AegisGrimm


Black Bond could work perfectly fine. Someone tell me how someone like Idris Elba wouldn't make an awesome 007?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/19 13:31:25


Post by: Riquende


Backfire wrote:
Not too many people think nowadays that comical Moore gadgetry Bonds were pinnacle of the character.


Roger Moore is my Bond by a long way.

He's no Robert Vaughn as Napoleon Solo though.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/19 14:41:04


Post by: A Town Called Malus


Backfire wrote:

Otherwise you will be seen just a greedy hack who tries to ride with a name recognition created by somebody other who was much better writer than you. Who wants that?


You realise this perfectly encapsulates the vast majority of the James Bond films which took the title of a book, some of the characters and discarded the rest?

The only really faithful adaptation was On Her Majesty's Secret Service, all the others vary from switching Russian agents with criminal groups and adding some extra action scenes (such as in Casino Royale or From Russia with Love) to flat out creating a completely new ridiculous plot and just using character names and a book title (Moonraker).


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/19 14:58:58


Post by: Lance845


Yeah. James Bond is the actual poster child for 1) changing actors willy nilly 2) changing bonds character and personality willy nilly and 3) ignoring the source material at every turn.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/19 18:40:05


Post by: Compel


I always thought a younger Colin Salmon would make an amazing Bond. He's got that suave charm down.

Has Idris Elba played any similar roles? I mostly know him from bits of Luther where he's a little more of an anti-Bond.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 02:24:39


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Mr Morden wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
I would be upset if they came out and tried to do an American Bond in the CIA. I would be upset if they tried to do a Russian Bond in the KGB.

As long as they do a British Bond in Mi6, the rest doesn't really matter.


First Bond on film was American.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(Climax!)

I guess we have never been true to that vision....


I was meaning more along the lines of the setting of the film and the character. A Bond film focusing on a Bond character working for the CIA would be a no thanks hard pass.

The actors nationality doesn't mean much to me if they are a good actor.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 09:18:28


Post by: Peregrine


Backfire wrote:
This question is much better reversed as: if everything about the character is changed but name, what's the point anymore really? For same effort you can make something new, without all the ballast and legacy associated with the old name. It will be much better that way.
Otherwise you will be seen just a greedy hack who tries to ride with a name recognition created by somebody other who was much better writer than you. Who wants that?


I think it says a lot, and none of it good, that you consider changing the race (or similar details) of a character to be changing "everything but the name". Clearly a new Bond movie needs to have enough of the original character to still be Bond, but if all you're going to do is make a perfect copy of the existing movies what's the point? Why not just watch the original movie again?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 09:56:45


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Dreadwinter wrote:
I would be upset if they came out and tried to do an American Bond in the CIA.


Like the original screen Bond (Jimmy Bond, of Combined Intelligence)? From a CBS TV movie from 1954.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 11:13:18


Post by: Techpriestsupport


So what should a new bond movie have for a villain? A hate group? I'm wondering what could be new and relevant to today's world .


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 11:40:22


Post by: A Town Called Malus


 Techpriestsupport wrote:
So what should a new bond movie have for a villain? A hate group? I'm wondering what could be new and relevant to today's world .


SMERSH.

Films haven't used them due to trying to not be controversial but now we have Russian agents using chemical weapons on UK soil to kill ex-Russian agents?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 13:30:08


Post by: Mr Morden


 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
I would be upset if they came out and tried to do an American Bond in the CIA. I would be upset if they tried to do a Russian Bond in the KGB.

As long as they do a British Bond in Mi6, the rest doesn't really matter.


First Bond on film was American.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(Climax!)

I guess we have never been true to that vision....


I was meaning more along the lines of the setting of the film and the character. A Bond film focusing on a Bond character working for the CIA would be a no thanks hard pass.

The actors nationality doesn't mean much to me if they are a good actor.


Sigh, Read the artcile about the film: "Nelson's Bond is played as an American spy with "Combined Intelligence Agency" and is referred to as "Jimmy" by several characters."


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 14:21:18


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Also, back to the "changes to the character" argument, "Connery was initially met with disapproval from Fleming, who believed him to be an overgrown stuntman who lacked the finesse and elegance to play James Bond; he envisaged a suave actor, such as David Niven playing the role..."

"Connery's interpretation of the character differed considerably from Fleming's, being more promiscuous and cold blooded than the literary version.[18] Connery described Bond as "a complete sensualist—senses highly tuned, awake to everything, quite amoral. I particularly like him because he thrives on conflict"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond_filmography sources 12, 18, 19

So, no reason why the next Bond couldn't be black, brown, female or of short stature, if they can pull off the character required by the director and script.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 17:22:21


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Techpriestsupport wrote:
So what should a new bond movie have for a villain? A hate group? I'm wondering what could be new and relevant to today's world .


SMERSH.

Films haven't used them due to trying to not be controversial but now we have Russian agents using chemical weapons on UK soil to kill ex-Russian agents?


I read that group name, and I cant help but think that its Sean Connery horribly butchering some word (at this point, I have no idea what a Smersh would be, if he were saying it)


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 18:25:01


Post by: Backfire


 AegisGrimm wrote:
Black Bond could work perfectly fine. Someone tell me how someone like Idris Elba wouldn't make an awesome 007?


Well for one, he's too old. Elba is 46. By the time any potential Bond movie featuring him would come out, he would be around 50. Roger Moore was 46 when he made his first Bond and quickly became too old for the role. Brosnan quit the role after he turned 50, feeling he was too old for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Peregrine wrote:
Backfire wrote:
This question is much better reversed as: if everything about the character is changed but name, what's the point anymore really? For same effort you can make something new, without all the ballast and legacy associated with the old name. It will be much better that way.
Otherwise you will be seen just a greedy hack who tries to ride with a name recognition created by somebody other who was much better writer than you. Who wants that?


I think it says a lot, and none of it good, that you consider changing the race (or similar details) of a character to be changing "everything but the name".


Does anyone actually read the points I make here?

Above was not about the race or colour of the lead actor, but response to the idea that "James Bond" could be a generic codename for any British super-spy. To that, answer is very much no. One could MAYBE argue that 007 could made such a more generic brand - no reason to assume Bond was first double-0 agent bearing the designation, why would he be the last? So perhaps that would go over with the audiences, to have new series of films featuring 007 agent named Xi Lee Yang, or something like that.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 18:39:48


Post by: Mr Morden


I was going to ask you the same thing - are you reading our points?

Bond is not some fixed charcter hje has changed throughout his history - espeically in terms of appearance.

Jame Bond could be a designation the same as 007 for most people but evidently not you - which is fine.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 20:17:15


Post by: Lance845


Agree with morden.

How terrible of a spy is bond that he has been going around introducing himself as his actual name?

It makes WAY more sense that bond is an alias linked to the 007 designation.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 20:36:16


Post by: Maniac_nmt


Save that Ian Fleming very specifically had a given physical idea in mind for James Bond, namely Hoagy Carmichael. It is mentioned twice, by name, in the books.

It's why, for all of the mannerisms which are good, I've never fully taken to Daniel Craig. He just isn't Bond. The films could name him anything else and poof, you'd never know it was a Bond film in anything other than homage.

In a similar vein, a female Bond would not work. He's very explicitly a chauvanist. To boot, he's so 'manly' that he can even convert 'lesbians'. Mrs. Galore is a lesbian in Goldfinger, who eventually is seduced and converted by Bond. He isn't meant to be politically correct or an advocate for diversity. In this respect Americans and most other races are generally played as inferior to the English (funny given Bond is Scots/Swiss). While Bond may be friends or work alongside non English folks, they are clearly inferior in the books and earlier films. Something Fleming also did deliberately for a British audience which was clearly loosing it's place as big dog in the world following the break up of the empire after the 2nd world war.

At best the most recent films have struggled with this (it's a recurring theme in both Brosnan and Craig films that he's a relic of a bygone time with no place in a modern, diverse, society). In much the same fashion, most of the books from Gardner on forward are pretty lack luster. Devil May Care was fun as it took him back into the cold war during the 1960s, and I haven't read Solo yet. To cast him as something other than an out of date, morally and physically, spy would be to loose key aspects of his character.

Next you'll tell me he shouldn't smoke, because kids might then think its cool (grrr... Brosnan)


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 21:38:53


Post by: Backfire


 Mr Morden wrote:

Bond is not some fixed charcter he has changed throughout his history - espeically in terms of appearance.

Jame Bond could be a designation the same as 007 for most people but evidently not you - which is fine.


No he's not. It has always been very clear that he is a distinct personality. Even when they rebooted the series when Craig came in, he was still THE James Bond with recognizable Bond mannerisms. Things which have made him popular and memorable. It would have been rather insane coincidence that British secret service always manages to find an agent who prefers his vodka martini shaken, no? And how come they're always such awful womanizers and gamblers? Must be some cultural thing!

Let me take another example: Godzilla. It's just a big lizard which wrecks cities. That's all. Right? Or at least that's how Emmerich's Godzilla version was made. How well did it go over?

Right. It didn't feel at all like Godzilla. It was simply some quite generic reptilian monster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Maniac_nmt wrote:

It's why, for all of the mannerisms which are good, I've never fully taken to Daniel Craig. He just isn't Bond.


I actually agree that physically, he's not the best match for Bond image. But hey, maybe he just dyed his hair...
Also he plays the role with bit too much of youthful swagger. I view Bond as bit more suave type. This is why I Brosnan is my fav Bond actor. Still, overall I nevertheless like Craig's Bond. Even in bad movies he could light up the scene with his raw presence, like Connery.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/20 23:03:22


Post by: Lance845


Godzilla ISNT just a big lizard that wrecks cities. Hes a big lizard that wrecks cities with atomic breath. If at any point that lizard had atomic breath it would have greesed a lot of wheels.

Mothra is just a giant moth and any movie that features a giant moth nails that character.

Kong is just a big orilla and the newest skull island movie was great despite him being a great many times larger and not going to nyc.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/21 01:55:06


Post by: Techpriestsupport


Bond is actually a renegade time lord who lost his tardis and is stranded on earth, he passes his time playing secret agent and hanging around in Britain since there is a temporal flux in the reversed polarity neutron flow of time stream in the quantum domain makes Britain the only part of earth time lords can live on. When you see a new actor it means he's regenerated again.



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/21 04:57:06


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Maniac_nmt wrote:
In this respect Americans and most other races are generally played as inferior to the English (funny given Bond is Scots/Swiss).



Wrong. .. Mr. Bond is British. There is a very big distinction that, without the clip of Jeremy Clarkson explaining it in Season 2 of The Grand Tour, I'm bound to mess this up, but here goes:

If you're born in England, you're English, and you're British. If you're born in Ireland or Scotland, should you do something notable with your life, such as invent some major doo-dad that improves life, get knighted, win the olympics in some event, etc. then you become British as well. However, if you're Irish or Scottish, and you end up in the media for being a complete idiot (ie, you pull a "Florida Man" type thing) then you remain Irish/Scottish. . .And if you're Welsh. . . well, there's no hope for ya, you're Welsh no matter what you do


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/21 06:34:25


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Mr Morden wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
I would be upset if they came out and tried to do an American Bond in the CIA. I would be upset if they tried to do a Russian Bond in the KGB.

As long as they do a British Bond in Mi6, the rest doesn't really matter.


First Bond on film was American.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(Climax!)

I guess we have never been true to that vision....


I was meaning more along the lines of the setting of the film and the character. A Bond film focusing on a Bond character working for the CIA would be a no thanks hard pass.

The actors nationality doesn't mean much to me if they are a good actor.


Sigh, Read the artcile about the film: "Nelson's Bond is played as an American spy with "Combined Intelligence Agency" and is referred to as "Jimmy" by several characters."


Oh well gak, I thought we just misunderstood each other.

So Bond can really be anything.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/21 08:24:10


Post by: Peregrine


Backfire wrote:
Above was not about the race or colour of the lead actor, but response to the idea that "James Bond" could be a generic codename for any British super-spy.


Then why did you make that post following a direct quote of me saying something very different? If you intended to reply to someone suggesting that "James Bond" is a generic code name and screwed up with the quote tags then ok, I take back what I said as it doesn't apply. But that isn't what you said as it is now.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/23 16:22:41


Post by: Easy E


 Riquende wrote:
Backfire wrote:
Not too many people think nowadays that comical Moore gadgetry Bonds were pinnacle of the character.


Roger Moore is my Bond by a long way.

He's no Robert Vaughn as Napoleon Solo though.


In GoldFinger there is a gangster that Oddjob offs and crushes in a Lincoln town car who is named Solo. In the audio commentary, they reference that The Man from Uncle was originally going to be called Solo but Cubby Broccolli objected and the studio quickly backpedaled and changed the name of the show.

I liked the Man from UNCLE too. Never saw the modern re-boot.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/23 23:01:56


Post by: Mr Morden


 Easy E wrote:
 Riquende wrote:
Backfire wrote:
Not too many people think nowadays that comical Moore gadgetry Bonds were pinnacle of the character.


Roger Moore is my Bond by a long way.

He's no Robert Vaughn as Napoleon Solo though.


In GoldFinger there is a gangster that Oddjob offs and crushes in a Lincoln town car who is named Solo. In the audio commentary, they reference that The Man from Uncle was originally going to be called Solo but Cubby Broccolli objected and the studio quickly backpedaled and changed the name of the show.

I liked the Man from UNCLE too. Never saw the modern re-boot.


Enjoyed both the original and the new one


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/25 22:06:00


Post by: Backfire


 Peregrine wrote:
Backfire wrote:
Above was not about the race or colour of the lead actor, but response to the idea that "James Bond" could be a generic codename for any British super-spy.


Then why did you make that post following a direct quote of me saying something very different?


Different how? You did not talk about the race in the post I quoted, so I assumed we were clear about what point was under discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr Morden wrote:
And please, lets not bring up the tired argument that "oh but James Bond has been depicted so differently already". Yep, and those depictions which were too different tended to be flops. Not too many people think nowadays that comical Moore gadgetry Bonds were pinnacle of the character. And 'License to Kill' where Bond was modernized as generic '80s action hero fighting generic '80s drug lord villain is one of the low points of the franchise. Especially when contrasted to 'Die Hard' which had all new fresh character who became almost as iconic as Bond.


Much prefer Moore to the current snooze fest where its "Bourne" Bond and they ditch anything fun and plots lumbered around for so so long - like the 10 mph car chase in the last film. Bond has changed massively with the lead actors and what was popular.


Gadgets and comedy serve as a distraction to hide shortcomings of the story and characters. It's like "oh well, this sucks but lets add some funny bits so audience at least gets a chuckle every now and then so they walk away with at least some positive memories from the viewing". Particularly 'Moon Raker' and 'Man with the Golden Gun' were much in this vein.

On the opposite end, they can also distract from good bits. Best example is 'World is not enogh' which has one of the best Bond characterizations, great villains, good plot, good supporting cast...but way too many Bond cliche moments thrown in for cheap chuckle and maybe the worst 'Good Bond Girl' ever. It would have been better movie if they had just stuck with what was good, but they probably thought it was too dark.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/25 22:24:08


Post by: Mr Morden


So bascially you feel Daniel Craig films are the only "real" Bond films? or the Connery ones as well?


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2018/11/25 22:45:44


Post by: Backfire


 Mr Morden wrote:
So bascially you feel Daniel Craig films are the only "real" Bond films? or the Connery ones as well?


I do not make such distinctions between 'eras' or actors as such. I do think that some of the movies ventured too far from original formula and weren't very good as a result, whilst some others stayed more 'tr00' but were lacking because of other reasons. Examples of the former would be Diamonds Are Forever, some of the Moore movies (particularly Moonraker), License to Kill and Die Another Day.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 11:37:05


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


Apologies to the Mods if this violates thread necromancy rules, but rather than start a new thread, I though I'd update this thread.

Shooting begins in April for the new Bond

But the working title is...Shatterhand

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/feb/22/shatteredhand-james-bond-working-title

Already, I yearn for Quantum of Solace

and predictabley, people are wondering if Shatterhand is a film about Bond having a DIY accident whilst hammering in some nails

Seriously, though, it's a strange title to say the least...


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 11:51:37


Post by: Paradigm


I saw somewhere (BBC, I think) that Shatterhand is an alias used by Blofeld in one of the novels, so that working title could be a hint at his return. Which I'd be down for, he was pretty great in Spectre.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 11:57:12


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


 Paradigm wrote:
I saw somewhere (BBC, I think) that Shatterhand is an alias used by Blofeld in one of the novels, so that working title could be a hint at his return. Which I'd be down for, he was pretty great in Spectre.



It was bad enough going into a cinema and asking for Quantum of Solace, or Question of Sport if you really wanted to be funny

but Shatterhand? I'll still watch it, but I've got my doubts.

I like Blofeld, but if it ain't Telly Savalas, I'm not really interested


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 14:27:15


Post by: AndrewGPaul


If it bothers you that much, book online. Or ask for "one for the bond film, please".


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 16:53:12


Post by: Lance845


I don't understand the hate on Quantum of Solace.


A Quantum of Solace is like... a fragment of peace of mind.

And considering it was a more or less direct sequel to Casino Royal and by the end we saw Bond put that whole relationship from CR to bed it also made sense.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 16:58:10


Post by: Paradigm


Yeah, it makes sense when you think about it... I'm just glad they didn't put it in the song, because good luck trying to get good lyrics out of it... As far as I can tell, the only thing that rhymes with Solace is 'Wallace'...


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 17:15:41


Post by: Lance845


Also the girl gets peace when the guy who killed her family dies.

There are several quantums of solace in the movie.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 17:35:28


Post by: A Town Called Malus


And a quantum of solace would be the literal smallest non-zero amount of solace possible to obtain.

So that also puts across the meaning that revenge is ultimately unsatisfying compared to the actual pain of the loss.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 18:03:00


Post by: Strg Alt


 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Apologies to the Mods if this violates thread necromancy rules, but rather than start a new thread, I though I'd update this thread.

Shooting begins in April for the new Bond

But the working title is...Shatterhand

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/feb/22/shatteredhand-james-bond-working-title

Already, I yearn for Quantum of Solace

and predictabley, people are wondering if Shatterhand is a film about Bond having a DIY accident whilst hammering in some nails

Seriously, though, it's a strange title to say the least...


Shatterhand? As in Old Shatterhand? Damn, Craig must have really enjoyed his role in Cowboys vs. Aliens when he revisits the Western genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBnRnYhnSQ4


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 18:08:45


Post by: Mr Morden


 Lance845 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on Quantum of Solace.


A Quantum of Solace is like... a fragment of peace of mind.

And considering it was a more or less direct sequel to Casino Royal and by the end we saw Bond put that whole relationship from CR to bed it also made sense.


for me it had a dismal main plot - laughable even compared to the much more fun and less "realistic" filsm with Roger Moore etc

Still it was not as bad as the next two films.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 19:37:25


Post by: Lance845


 Mr Morden wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on Quantum of Solace.


A Quantum of Solace is like... a fragment of peace of mind.

And considering it was a more or less direct sequel to Casino Royal and by the end we saw Bond put that whole relationship from CR to bed it also made sense.


for me it had a dismal main plot - laughable even compared to the much more fun and less "realistic" filsm with Roger Moore etc

Still it was not as bad as the next two films.


Remember that Quantum of Solace was made in the middle of the writers strike. The fact that it is what it is is nothing short of miraculous. By all reason it should be WAY worse.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 21:26:08


Post by: Elbows


Quantum of Solace is a bizarre movie. It's far worse in your memory than in reality. I watch it maybe once every two years and always think "this isn't nearly as bad as I remember...". I think the killer is that the end of the movie is a bit blase. In my head though I think "Ugh! Quantum of Solace!", but in reality it's a decent 6/10 flick. It definitely doesn't disappoint as much as Spectre, but isn't as good as Skyfall/Casino Royale.

I'd probably go...

Casino Royale
Skyfall
Quantum of Solace
Spectre



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 22:08:45


Post by: Kroem


Its a shame that not everyone loved Spectre, that was the best bond film since the Pierce Brosnan days imo.

I did think the start was a bit bitty, chopping between different countries every five minutes. However, everything after bond gets to the clinic was just pure gold for me!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/23 23:53:21


Post by: Mr Morden


 Kroem wrote:
Its a shame that not everyone loved Spectre, that was the best bond film since the Pierce Brosnan days imo.

I did think the start was a bit bitty, chopping between different countries every five minutes. However, everything after bond gets to the clinic was just pure gold for me!


I thought the Oh so very slow car chase was very very bad and the whole thing (including the lead) just looks tired compared to Mission Impossible but I like the old style Bond films more (or Moore)



New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/24 12:21:30


Post by: Kilkrazy


I think you've hit on a good point there.

Both the Bourne and Mission Impossible series have encroached on traditional Bond territory from different flanks.

Bourne has done the violence and betrayal, while MI has done the gadgets, stunts and exotic locations.

I think Bond still has an edge in terms of big set-pieces and some absolutely great locations.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/24 12:42:55


Post by: Lance845


Bond follows all the trends and sets none.

The Craig era Bonds are a reaction to the first couple Bourne movies.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/24 12:51:28


Post by: Kroem


They do occupy similar teritories, but is was presisely the bourneification of Casino Royale that I didn't like.
I think Bond should have more comedy than it does currently, but I'm still really looking forward to the next film.

I love that they are bringing back Dr Madeline Swann as she is insanely hot, and hopefully Batista makes a return perhaps with some mechanical enhancements!




New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/24 16:02:40


Post by: Kilkrazy


 Lance845 wrote:
Bond follows all the trends and sets none.

The Craig era Bonds are a reaction to the first couple Bourne movies.


I think that is true to a degree, but they are also in part a return to the low-tech original Bonds like Doctor No, when getting a new pistol was a big thing.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/24 17:31:10


Post by: Lance845


I would bet money that when we get another Bond with a new actor it's going to be more like Mission Impossible. Almost guaranteed Bond will be climbing something crazy like a sky scrapper or a cliff.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/02/24 23:00:55


Post by: Mr Morden


 Lance845 wrote:
I would bet money that when we get another Bond with a new actor it's going to be more like Mission Impossible. Almost guaranteed Bond will be climbing something crazy like a sky scrapper or a cliff.


We can but hope - someone with a bit of life and energy - same with the Director and writters


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 12:52:28


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


As always, apologies to the Mods for possible thread necromancy. But wh start a new thread?

Anyway, it looks like the cast is confirmed, with Rami Malek the new villain. I admit to not knowing much about him, but it's Bond, so I'm watching it anyway!

Let's hope it's not another Quantum of Solace

Bond 25. There are hints that there will be one or two Easter eggs in there from previous films.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 14:52:38


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Anyway, it looks like the cast is confirmed, with Rami Malek the new villain. I admit to not knowing much about him, but it's Bond, so I'm watching it anyway!


Ooh, it would be fun if Rami was reprising his Freddie Mercury role in a Bond film. . . how fun would it be if Queen were the villain against The Queen??


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 16:17:44


Post by: Frazzled


I'm now envisioning Freddie Mercury as Goldfinger.

Bond, strapped to the table. "I expect you think I will talk."

Mercury Finger. "No Luv, I expect you to die."

It..works!


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 16:43:29


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


Let's can this Freddie Mercury talk. It's a Bond film - let's give it some respect

Explosions, fast cars, guns, and gadgets, are the priority here.

There is talk of bringing in some comedian to write some dialogue.

Could go either way.

As much as I like the Roger Moore films, we've already got half a dozen of them. Let's keep the 1970s where it belongs - in the 1970s

In saying that, Sheriff JW Pepper of the Louisiana Police is always welcome


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 17:02:51


Post by: Azreal13


The "some comedian" is Phoebe Waller Bridge, who this far has shown herself to be a pretty adept writer (she's writes and stars in Fleabag.) She's also the voice of L3-37 in Solo, but pobody's nerfect.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 20:04:29


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


 Azreal13 wrote:
The "some comedian" is Phoebe Waller Bridge, who this far has shown herself to be a pretty adept writer (she's writes and stars in Fleabag.) She's also the voice of L3-37 in Solo, but pobody's nerfect.


Yeah, I've been doing some serious research into Bridge's career (Wikipedia ) and she has a track record of success. I've never watched any of the stuff she's been in or written, or even heard of her until now, so I have no idea if it's any good. If it pays off, I'll be the first to say well done to everybody.

In my experience, and IMO, two many cooks spoil the broth. There should never be more than two people writing a script, and if there's anymore, you end up with a script by committee or a Pirates of the Caribbean film.

In saying that, it's a Bond film, we all know the formula. In theory, it should be hard to feth up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS.

I just don't want to end up with another Quantum. I don't care if it's a certain North Korean who writes it. I just want a decent film I can go and watch at the cinema.


New James Bond in 2019: Rami Malek as the new villian @ 2019/04/25 21:16:51


Post by: Backfire


Like Star Trek films, every other Bond film is good. Last one sucked, so we're due for good if that holds true.