So the title pretty much sums it up. All the old (and not so old) metal infantry regiments are OOP and "no longer available" on the GW website.
Even the Armageddon Steel legion (dating from 3rd edition) and Vostroyan (dating from middle of 4th edition, which is newer than current cadians).
These were still quite complete ranges, until now. No warning, no "Last Chance to Buy" operation.
That really sucks, and kills any interest I had in doing Guard in the future (I sure as hell wouldn't use boring Cadians). On the plus side I've "almost" ordered Vostroyans about four times this year, so I'm glad I'm not in the middle of a project.
The move away from proper regiments by GW with regard to the IG was probably the nail in the coffin for me. Huge mistake. That army lost any character it had.
Ravajaxe wrote: So the title pretty much sums it up. All the old (and not so old) metal infantry regiments are OOP and "no longer available" on the GW website.
Even the Armageddon Steel legion (dating from 3rd edition) and Vostroyan (dating from middle of 4th edition, which is newer than current cadians).
These were still quite complete ranges, until now. No warning, no "Last Chance to Buy" operation.
So pretty sadface for me.
I was planning on finally picking up Gaunts duders and the Last Chancers this weekend, but then GW decides to show me the middel finger
NERDRAGE
Maybe GW's planning on releasing them in plastic (no I don't belive that eaither) more realisticly the molds might be wearing out, assuming they where producing the metal stuff still, it could also be their old stock is just about gone now.
I think there would be more information ans last time offers if they were really retiring those lines of models permanently. I think it's more likely they are just repackeging or something otehr temporary.
Well crap, my Vostroyans are nowhere near complete yet. Been thinking of ordering one more command squad, snipers, and plasma gunners from GW soon, and now they're gone.
Their OOP stuff was already expensive enough on ebay (30 euros for one sergeant/junior officer 50 dollar mortarbteams teams urgh) and now they're all just gone OOP. Guess I'll give up.
TBH, is this really surprising to anyone? We know GW wants to get rid of the last of their metal products so they can dump that production line entirely. The bigger surprise to me is that those models lasted so long despite being obsolete sculpts in the worst material.
If they're really not going to do another run and just happen to be out at the moment, they'll probably change them to resin for an eternity like the various Eldar models.
I am happy I already got my Vostroyans a long time ago. Still haven't done anything with them though. But a shame I won't be able to pick up Gaunt's Ghosts anymore. I had always planned on doing that one day.
Maybe we can hope for a new plastic line of customizable regiments like the Anvil Industries Regiments lines. Imperial Guard really need it! Millions of worlds and all the IG look like Cadians?
The Riddle of Steel wrote: Maybe we can hope for a new plastic line of customizable regiments like the Anvil Industries Regiments lines. Imperial Guard really need it! Millions of worlds and all the IG look like Cadians?
Cadians are the McDonalds of Imperial Guard regiments. They might not be very good, but they're cheap and they're everywhere.
BrianDavion wrote: I could see forge world stepping in here. although I'd not count on it. but it'd definatly be nice to see a kit for another guard regiment or two.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. FW is not going to step in. They're too busy making shoulder pads and doors for every space marine faction, and just killed off one of their existing IG ranges. There is zero chance of them making new IG regiments to replace the OOP metal ones.
Well damn, all those regiments added so much character to the guard...
Sigh, and I still needed to get more heavy weapons teams for my steel legion, currently only have I think 1 lascannon and a couple of heavy bolters. Had always planned to grab them down the line at some point when I caught up with my painting. Oh well, I guess ebay it is if gw doesn't want my money, and here's hoping this is a temporary messup.
BrianDavion wrote: I could see forge world stepping in here. although I'd not count on it. but it'd definatly be nice to see a kit for another guard regiment or two.
You realize they just killed their Elysian range and half of Solar Auxilia, yes?
But hey, at least we got that garbage FW Custodes range no one wanted instead of these lame IG humies, never mind they pointlessly duplicate plastics, look far worse (especially Valdor, hands down ugliest and least fluffy model FW produced in a decade, and that includes contradicting their own frakking concept art!), and now Custodes IA book killed Fires of Cyraxus release to add a cherry on top
Sad to see variety in the IG die off, especially when most of these regiments could have been saved with a single plastic kit for each regiment - squad with a single heavy weapon team and maybe a sentinel pilot torso/head/arms. Why they never made plastic DKoK I'll never know.
Yep. Plastic is inherently worse as a medium for high-detail models like the current DKoK line. The only advantage it offers is price, and since I can already buy DKoK kits faster than I can paint them being able to save $5/squad is worthless to me.
Yep. Plastic is inherently worse as a medium for high-detail models like the current DKoK line.
If that's your only metric, I'd agree, though ease of clean-up and assembly in plastic is a huge plus. That said, I'm quite impressed with what GW has been able to do in plastics lately.
Yep. Plastic is inherently worse as a medium for high-detail models like the current DKoK line. The only advantage it offers is price, and since I can already buy DKoK kits faster than I can paint them being able to save $5/squad is worthless to me.
While this was true in the past, the current level of detail in plastic kits is as good as resin casts. Everything from last year's Death Guard onward has been exceptional in terms of quality and detail. I mean just look at these glorious sprues:
Spoiler:
At that level of detail I can't see any guard regiments suffering from a remake in plastic.
BrianDavion wrote: I could see forge world stepping in here. although I'd not count on it. but it'd definatly be nice to see a kit for another guard regiment or two.
You realize they just killed their Elysian range and half of Solar Auxilia, yes?
But hey, at least we got that garbage FW Custodes range no one wanted instead of these lame IG humies, never mind they pointlessly duplicate plastics, look far worse (especially Valdor, hands down ugliest and least fluffy model FW produced in a decade, and that includes contradicting their own frakking concept art!), and now Custodes IA book killed Fires of Cyraxus release to add a cherry on top
I'm aware which is why I said I'd not count on it, BTW didn't FW put custodes out before GW did?
This is why ai want all the ork models updated. Any day now GW could just remove half our models.
When it comes to plastic vs resin. Saving money is good overall as more people can play (this should not be an exclusive elite upper middle class hobby..) and honestly unless you're big on the whole thing i can never tell the difference between plastic and resin. And on a tabletop or shelf wherd there are hundreds of models you can't see a huge difference.
Armageddon campaign is coming, Cadia is gone, both plastic guard ranges are over 10 years old and only 3 kits are required to give a whole new regiment specific product range (command, infantry, heavy weapon squad).
Imagine if there was another new range of model updates coming out aswell, maybe in green and related somehow to the Armageddon campaign, imagine if you could somehow bring both ranges out in one handy boxset.
lolman1c wrote: Okay, it would be extremely funny and depressing if gw brought out a full steel legion collection with lots of new models and Orks get nothing new.
except that a steel legion release wouldn't be a ton of new kits, GW could do it in 3 kits, less if they where willing to make a dual or even triple kit.
kurhanik wrote: Well damn, all those regiments added so much character to the guard...
Did they? I mean, for them to add character to an army, someone would need to own the models. I've never seen any of these models used by anyone who didn't already own them from 2nd edition. I don't think they shifted many of those for a while.
lolman1c wrote:Okay, it would be extremely funny and depressing if gw brought out a full steel legion collection with lots of new models and Orks get nothing new.
I would love a big Orks vs Steel Legion release, with new plastic Armageddon units, Yarrick, Ghazghkull, and some 'Ard Boyz.
AndrewGPaul wrote:
kurhanik wrote: Well damn, all those regiments added so much character to the guard...
Did they? I mean, for them to add character to an army, someone would need to own the models. I've never seen any of these models used by anyone who didn't already own them from 2nd edition. I don't think they shifted many of those for a while.
Well, they sell less when they are put on webstore only for years on end - people forget that they are still sold. It is also just kind of a nice break from having every regiment be Cadian (or Catachan), but a different color.
Here's hoping this is a temporary thing and they'll come back, I honestly have had plans for using almost every one of them...
Still funny how people are complaining about the loss of their army from the store yet many people on this forums were more than happy for GSC players to lose units they had made models for and used for years or happily telling us not to worry if half our ork hqs don't make it over to the codex. Not saying it was anyone here but still very interesting responses.
Speaking of ebay, it's not like there haven't been tens of thousands of these sold over the years. I wanted to start an Inquisitorial band, and I loved the old metal stormtroopers. I thought, ah, shame I won't get to do that, but typing inquisitor stormtrooper into ebay shows these guys still get bandied around in large numbers even if it's quite expensive. Obviously there's probably not ten thousand inq stormtroopers floating around, or ever made, but for rank and file guardsmen there probably are.
No, only those 2 were mentioned by name. It doesn't mean that they haven't been "retired" but it doesn't mean that they have.
edit: I'll see if the person will allow me to post the entire message or not. Correction: not valhallan but voystrians are mentioned in the email. Sorry for the incorrect info.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: Speaking of ebay, it's not like there haven't been tens of thousands of these sold over the years. I wanted to start an Inquisitorial band, and I loved the old metal stormtroopers. I thought, ah, shame I won't get to do that, but typing inquisitor stormtrooper into ebay shows these guys still get bandied around in large numbers even if it's quite expensive. Obviously there's probably not ten thousand inq stormtroopers floating around, or ever made, but for rank and file guardsmen there probably are.
Actually, there probably were 10,000 metal Inquisitorial Stormtroopers made. I have a couple dozen of them, myself, and there are lots of people who got multiple squads. 500 players with 20 models each is not at all out of the question. Or even 1,000 players with a single squad of 10? Yeah, definitely 10,00 metal Inquistorial Stormtroopers were made.
While it would be cool to see plastic Steel Legion and so forth, it would be even better to see the generic (i.e., Cadian) IG updated to something a bit more in line with contemporary standards of proportions, detail, etc.
I really doubt, however, that eliminating the SKUs for these metal Guardsmen betokens any upcoming redesign or even new units for Astra Militarum.
Half this post is from people who never got around to buying stuff, now outraged they can't. Dudes, if you had ever gotten around to buying these elf dollies then they wouldn't have been retired in the first place. Unless you think it's because they have no masters left to make molds from all the metal produced in the last 20+ years... ^_~
That said, GW could have given a heads up about stock levels and being retired before just pulling the plug.
Counterpoint: some people were penniless when XYZ kit was in print and now that they have money to spend XYZ kit is OOP. This is why I have been buying up surviving WHFB kits since AoS launched. I guess in that same sense, people should kind of be on notice about things like metal Guardsmen even without GW saying, look these models we have been phasing out for years will not be available forever! When Shadow War came out, I immediately bought some Steel Legion and Vostroyan guys but luckily that is becauss I had some disposable income to ... er, invest.
Manchu wrote: Counterpoint: some people were penniless when XYZ kit was in print and now that they have money to spend XYZ kit is OOP. This is why I have been buying up surviving WHFB kits since AoS launched. I guess in that same sense, people should kind of be on notice about things like metal Guardsmen even without GW saying, look these models we have been phasing out for years will not be available forever! When Shadow War came out, I immediately bought some Steel Legion and Vostroyan guys but luckily that is becauss I had some disposable income to ... er, invest.
Yeah, I had to drop a painful amount of money on the FW last chance to buy, and when I've completed my army, I'm probably just going to start buying up half the old WHFB character models. There are some really great sculpts, and one day I might get into d&d, so why not come prepared? Plus I need fodder for the dakka unofficial painting comp, can't just submit raptor marines every month.
Manchu wrote: Counterpoint: some people were penniless when XYZ kit was in print and now that they have money to spend XYZ kit is OOP. This is why I have been buying up surviving WHFB kits since AoS launched. I guess in that same sense, people should kind of be on notice about things like metal Guardsmen even without GW saying, look these models we have been phasing out for years will not be available forever! When Shadow War came out, I immediately bought some Steel Legion and Vostroyan guys but luckily that is becauss I had some disposable income to ... er, invest.
Yeah, I had to drop a painful amount of money on the FW last chance to buy, and when I've completed my army, I'm probably just going to start buying up half the old WHFB character models. There are some really great sculpts, and one day I might get into d&d, so why not come prepared? Plus I need fodder for the dakka unofficial painting comp, can't just submit raptor marines every month.
Yeah, if they had had a last chance to buy with this stuff, I would have probably either spent a stupid amount on some side projects, or made some extremely hard choices. At the minimum, I would have nabbed a couple of Steel Legion HWT since that is the only thing I am really lacking with them. As it stands now, I'll probably just stick my nose into ebay once every month or two to see if anything I want is reasonable.
Welcome to the lives of the vast majority of people. I know some folk around here seem to think we've all got Warlord Titan money in our loose change jar and all the "my poor wallet" comments are just jokes, but there are plenty of hobbyists who don't have hundreds of quid just sitting around waiting for GW to put things on Last Chance(or just delete them entirely, as here), nor can they buy up a bunch of stuff for a project they might not get around to for ages without neglecting a project they're working on right now. I've been there plenty of times myself over the years.
And lets not pretend GW's finances were groaning and straining desperately to keep a couple of wee bins full of metals and a shelf worth of molds lying about, that email answer is a farce - if they actually had to get rid of these to make room for new stuff, they need to be investing in new warehousing and production facilities, not rearranging the deckchairs by canning a few piddly little old Guard models.
I'm surprised they offered those ranges as long as they did. I expected them to go OOP right after Finecast and the major shift to plastic for everything including characters. The last couple years were borrowed time.
Ravajaxe wrote: So the title pretty much sums it up. All the old (and not so old) metal infantry regiments are OOP and "no longer available" on the GW website.
I normally would agree with the sentiment of resin being better, but I disagree with this about the DKoK. I had but and painted a full army back in 2008, and well over a 1/3rd of the rifles I got were broken at the barrel in shipping. And the pieces are so small and flexible that fixing them took forever (and inevitably they would break again when a stiff breeze came through). I'm not sure if FW changed the resin they used for the DKoK, but I would never buy any of them again bar the thicker barreled Stormtroopers.
That said, it appears in the grim darkness of the 41st millennia there is only Cadians (with awful models nonetheless). What a bummer.
Supposedly the ig are getting something in the near future, if the local rep isn't full of it. No specifics, but in response to questions about this. Greatcoat guard would be my completely baseless guess. But we are returning to Orks and Orks mean Armageddon. Fingers crossed.
Peregrine wrote: TBH, is this really surprising to anyone? We know GW wants to get rid of the last of their metal products so they can dump that production line entirely. The bigger surprise to me is that those models lasted so long despite being obsolete sculpts in the worst material.
"obsolete sculpts"
"worst material"
...the hyperbole is strong in this one.
On its worst day, metal is still superior to Finecast - and given GW's pricing model, better than plastic for single-pose characters.
As for obsolete sculpts, the Steel Legion and Vostroyans, at the very least, are superior to either plastic infantry range for the IG.
Dysartes wrote: On its worst day, metal is still superior to Finecast - and given GW's pricing model, better than plastic for single-pose characters.
Finecast doesn't count. It isn't a material, it's a shelf decoration that no sane and informed person would ever buy. Of the materials that can produce usable models, not just deformed lumps that go straight into the trash, metal is the worst. It's the hardest to clean up before painting, hardest to assemble, most vulnerable to chipping, most limited in its pose/detail options, and by far the most difficult to convert.
As for obsolete sculpts, the Steel Legion and Vostroyans, at the very least, are superior to either plastic infantry range for the IG.
That's arguable. Some of those models were ok, some of them were on about the same level with the same weird proportions (a problem that seems to be shared by most of GW's earlier sculpts). And a lot of them really showed their obsolescence in the severe limits that metal puts on posing options. They weren't bad for their time, but they're definitely not up to the level of modern plastic/resin kits.
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Sabotage! wrote: I normally would agree with the sentiment of resin being better, but I disagree with this about the DKoK. I had but and painted a full army back in 2008, and well over a 1/3rd of the rifles I got were broken at the barrel in shipping. And the pieces are so small and flexible that fixing them took forever (and inevitably they would break again when a stiff breeze came through). I'm not sure if FW changed the resin they used for the DKoK, but I would never buy any of them again bar the thicker barreled Stormtroopers.
On the other hand, I have had few/no problems with broken weapons on mine and the thin models are part of the appeal. Their guns are actually 28mm scale, unlike the giant blocky lasguns of the plastic kits. Plastic versions are going to be almost as fragile unless they sacrifice detail quality for durability, at which point I'll just buy recasts of the originals instead.
The Voystroyans were pure 40K. Shame to see them go.
And weird that this would happen without a Last Chance to Buy.
Maybe GW proper were jealous of the multiple-weeks of un-releases FW were doing and wanted in on the action, although did it in the typical GW style of too much, too fast.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Voystroyans were pure 40K. Shame to see them go.
And weird that this would happen without a Last Chance to Buy.
Maybe GW proper were jealous of the multiple-weeks of un-releases FW were doing and wanted in on the action, although did it in the typical GW style of too much, too fast.
Uh oh, what if GW make it a multiple week thing too. Hold me I am scared.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?
People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?
People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.
Exault.
That being said I wish GW would do regular rotations, monthly Made to Order or whatever, nothing like a ticking clock to focus the mind.
Not true for me, last chance and made to order puts the fear of missing out straight into my brain. Its probably the most effective way to make me spend money
Plenty of metal minis on their way out I am buying to own a complete catalogue for example sister of battle army one of each, imperial guard and much more. If I knew these would go out first I would focus my purchasing power on them.
Personally, I 100% believe that GW should just put every model they still have a mould for, but no longer sell, on permanent made to order.
This, of course, would likely result in a slight increase in cost per model for us, but, it would solve all the problems associated with “legacy” models.
However, it is likely that this would require a fair amount of investment in GWs current production facility in order to accommodate such a move.
Kirasu wrote: People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.
This may be true in some businesses, where buying or not is more of a binary thing, but it's not a very appropriate principle for a collecting product like 40k. The whole concept of the game is that you start off with an initial purchase and keep adding to your collection over time. If a person buys a starter box and says "I'll probably get that tank soon" it's very likely that they'll do exactly that. They just aren't going to drop thousands of dollars on every model they could ever possibly want, not all at once. Most people have at least some idea of a ranked priority list for their purchases, to be bought as time and money permit. So trying to apply your rule to 40k would result in GW dropping everything but starter boxes and the game dying soon after.
Now, it's possibly true that even if you believe some of the customers the now-OOP models wouldn't have sold well enough to justify keeping the last remains of GW's metal production lines in an era of all-plastic goals. But GW is almost certainly giving up sales from people who didn't buy them immediately but would have bought them in the future.
Oh yeah, for the record, GW had Imperial Guard available for preorder as Made To Order back in October 2016 - more than a year-and-a-half ago. Really, no excuses
There's a huge difference between "pay to play" and "at all times keep a reserve fund sufficient to cover all models you could ever want to buy just in case they go OOP" or "as soon as you start in the hobby buy everything you could possibly ever want, regardless of the cost".
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?
People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.
That's manure, and it's already been explained why it's manure. Not everyone has zero self-control and the budget to just buy what they like when they like.
Besides which, again, what was it costing GW to keep these available - a shelf for the molds, a couple of buckets for the stock, and a casting run every year or two at most? And none of this "they want to get rid of metal" stuff, because they're happy enough to cast new metal stuff for Legends/Last Chance sales, they're not getting rid of the necessary equipment. Christ you'd think even presenting the appearance that they still supported the more varied concept of the Guard from back before they got Latinicus Nameicus'd would be worth that meagre expenditure, it's not like there's some gargantuan opportunity cost at play here, if they're such a tiny part of the business that it's not worth keeping them around on the basis of sales, then they're also too tiny a part of the business for canning them to make any appreciable difference to the company's bottom line.
There's a huge difference between "pay to play" and "at all times keep a reserve fund sufficient to cover all models you could ever want to buy just in case they go OOP" or "as soon as you start in the hobby buy everything you could possibly ever want, regardless of the cost".
Well bloody said. I swear sometimes the snobbery fairly drips off some folk on this forum.
There's a huge difference between "pay to play" and "at all times keep a reserve fund sufficient to cover all models you could ever want to buy just in case they go OOP" or "as soon as you start in the hobby buy everything you could possibly ever want, regardless of the cost".
QFT.
Unless you buy everything all when you start, or have a technically infinite sized reserve to drop on units that may or may not go out of production, there's always that risk that you might not be able to pick something up before it goes bust.
I wanted to pick up Renegade when it first came out. However, on the budget I was on, buying it was out of the question. I'm glad it's come back, but by now, I've already built up a small Knight Force already. If I had the gift of foresight, I may have delayed it for this - but unfortunately, I can't plan that far ahead.
Sounds like you lucked out a bit with your DKoK Peregrine, or they changed the resin formula. Back when I was putting my army together most people I saw seemed to have the compliant that the gun barrels broke in shipping. I do agree the true 28mm scale on them is great and they do look really nice, I will say though I would probably prefer them in plastic though even if that meant thickening them up a bit. The Escher lasgun/pistol barrels are pretty thin for plastic and are pretty durable. At least at the time I purchased them the resin was just too brittle. I will say the force of Elysians I put together a few years back was much better, though that may just be the gun design.
More on topic though, it is disappointing they discontinued the metal ranges (I thought the Vostroyans and Steel Legion are pretty nice), especially without a warning period to give those without an infinite hobby budget to have a month or so to purchase anything they may be missing.
Here's hoping to a new plastic IG regiment made to the quality of the GSC or Mechanicus troops. The original Cadian and Catachan plastics are just awfully proportioned.
Only true if you have infinite money. But for me I have to pick a few items each order. The Valhallans were on my list of to buy. But i put metal sister of battle higher on the list since i believed they would be gone faster then the valhallans because of the coming rework. In 3-4 months i would have got them. Not because they are less important then sisters of battle but because i believed they would stay longer. A last chance to buy period is important for a lot of people!
JohnHwangDD wrote: Nope. Either you bother to buy something or not. It's that simple. If you don't get it before it is gone, 6hen it wasn't important after all
So every 40k player should buy several copies of every single model the day they pick up their first starter set, and if they don't do so then it wasn't important and they can't complain?
It is really shame about Vostroyans, they were really unique. Other old ranges can pretty easily be created from various third party sources, but I don't think anyone produces anything quite like them. I absolutely detest working with metal and I still have some of them as they're such lovely models, officers in particular.
Yodhrin wrote: And lets not pretend GW's finances were groaning and straining desperately to keep a couple of wee bins full of metals and a shelf worth of molds lying about, that email answer is a farce - if they actually had to get rid of these to make room for new stuff, they need to be investing in new warehousing and production facilities, not rearranging the deckchairs by canning a few piddly little old Guard models.
Actually, you're wrong here - they might have been straining to keep metal models in production seeing they maxed out their power line the town allowed and physically can't invest into more plastic making machines until new line is approved and built. That's why you have plastic models go out of stock for weeks or even months - because better sellers have priority, some plastic molds are stuck in the queue for a very long time, sometimes indefinitely. Given the above, someone might have took a look at the lone, sad metal spinner in the corner, asked "do we really need this thing around when all it does is producing a handful of very old models people don't really buy" and decided to replace it with another plastic machine to fix more pressing concerns.
This is also why we didn't got LCTB - if they unplugged the machine, they can't make the stuff anymore, at least until the power problems are solved, and decided to be honest about it...
Dysartes wrote: On its worst day, metal is still superior to Finecast - and given GW's pricing model, better than plastic for single-pose characters.
Nope. Finecast they used in Centos, Marbo, Veridian, and the rest of recent resin guys is now considerably superior to metal, both better detail and ease of build and modify, plus less production errors.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Nope. Either you bother to buy something or not. It's that simple. If you don't get it before it is gone, 6hen it wasn't important after all
So every 40k player should buy several copies of every single model the day they pick up their first starter set, and if they don't do so then it wasn't important and they can't complain?
If you’ve had a decade or so... no, no you can’t complain.
I hope Vostroyans come back in plastic. They are the most pure 40k regiment, the perfect mix between the weirdness of warhammer, historical influence, and their own character, not "Historical but in space" (As steel legion, Krieg, Mordian, etc...) or "Movie parody" (As Catachan, Cadia, Tallarn, etc...)
Back when we were filling out the GW survey all my suggestions were about updating the model range with something like 3 boxes and 2 upgrade sprues per regiment. I am really hoping they were going to do this anyway.
Fayric wrote: Armageddon has a great part of the lore, they might even get their own faction in a near future.
Steel Legion metal infantry discontinued? -Good riddance!
Make way for cool plastic guardsmen and give the Steel Legion the attention it deserves.
Edit: oh, realised the steel legion still up. Darn. Nevermind.
That is a conundrum. With all of the rumors surrounding an upcoming Armageddon campaign, one would think the Steel Legion would be no longer available in preparation for a plastic release of all the regiments. That is unless they plan to axe the Steel Legion in the upcoming campaign. I would be highly surprised if they did considering Cadia just got destroyed, Elysians are now OOP, & if you look at the galaxy map Armageddon is like right next to Terra. If Armageddon falls, the IoM is basically done. If the imperium cannot hold their own doorstep they have no hope of securing the rest of their borders.
Well, that s a shame. Thanks for the news nevertheless. I just had to buy vostroyan for a friend, a pity. I am ok with gw managing their stock and all. But why they do not put it on last chance to buy ? This I cannot agree with.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Nope. Either you bother to buy something or not. It's that simple. If you don't get it before it is gone, 6hen it wasn't important after all
So every 40k player should buy several copies of every single model the day they pick up their first starter set, and if they don't do so then it wasn't important and they can't complain?
Yeah, I'm with Peregrine on this one. Not everyone has the disposable income to buy everything right away. And what about the players who last month decided "I want to start a new army, I'll start Vostroyans and build them up over the next few months." Or the new player who decided that was the faction they were going to play after playing some starter games? As far as miniatures not being that important after all, as this is a hobby you can make that claim about literally anything, but they are still something people want. I understand discontinuing the models, but it would have been courteous to give people a bit of warning.
I think GW is in the process of doing a line clean-up for 40K, like they did for Fantasy around AOS’s release. I’m wondering if beside some of these metal minis being dropped if we may see some existing lines go away.
What would be the equivalent of Tomb Kings and Brettonia for 40K?
Stormonu wrote: I think GW is in the process of doing a line clean-up for 40K, like they did for Fantasy around AOS’s release. I’m wondering if beside some of these metal minis being dropped if we may see some existing lines go away.
What would be the equivalent of Tomb Kings and Brettonia for 40K?
Stormonu wrote: I think GW is in the process of doing a line clean-up for 40K, like they did for Fantasy around AOS’s release. I’m wondering if beside some of these metal minis being dropped if we may see some existing lines go away.
What would be the equivalent of Tomb Kings and Brettonia for 40K?
I am pretty sure you are right.
EDIT : more importantly GW is going to thrash away a lot of old ex metal kit as Incubi or Banshee.
But I do not think they could consider throwing an integral faction
Stormonu wrote: I think GW is in the process of doing a line clean-up for 40K, like they did for Fantasy around AOS’s release. I’m wondering if beside some of these metal minis being dropped if we may see some existing lines go away.
What would be the equivalent of Tomb Kings and Brettonia for 40K?
I am pretty sure you are right
Why? Because he said Tomb Kings and Bretonnia?
There really isn't that much fat to trim in regards to 40k. They've been taking care of it over the years. With Fantasy, we literally lost factions all at once because they were ceasing to exist in-game.
Ginsu33 wrote: I suspect new Regiments that would clash with the aesthetics of the old ones are coming.
Waiting around is a pain though, this could take years.
Honestly? I've been thinking for awhile that the removal of the Solar Auxilia from FW's range is because we're going to see something similar to that in concept/design from GW in plastic. The stuff from Rogue Trader seems to be a step in that possible direction.
With Guilliman being back and seeming to want to return to 'the good ol' days' I could see him doing something like that.
kestral wrote: Third party companies will probably pick up the Vostorian look, or at least I hope so, because they were awesome!
god damn that would make me a happy clam. I've been hoping someone would make me some heads I can stick on units that come with cadian crew for a while.
Fayric wrote: Armageddon has a great part of the lore, they might even get their own faction in a near future.
Steel Legion metal infantry discontinued? -Good riddance!
Make way for cool plastic guardsmen and give the Steel Legion the attention it deserves.
Edit: oh, realised the steel legion still up. Darn. Nevermind.
That is a conundrum. With all of the rumors surrounding an upcoming Armageddon campaign, one would think the Steel Legion would be no longer available in preparation for a plastic release of all the regiments. That is unless they plan to axe the Steel Legion in the upcoming campaign. I would be highly surprised if they did considering Cadia just got destroyed, Elysians are now OOP, & if you look at the galaxy map Armageddon is like right next to Terra. If Armageddon falls, the IoM is basically done. If the imperium cannot hold their own doorstep they have no hope of securing the rest of their borders.
they might, and when they do, they'll probably be about 45$ for a box of 10 figures, because that's just what GW miniatures cost now and that is a totally sane price for a squad that amounts to 2.8% of a standard tournament army.
Stormonu wrote: What would be the equivalent of Tomb Kings and Brettonia for 40K?
Mini marines.
I still think that's coming down the road, but not until they have Primaris replacements in place for the existing kits - stuff like the Rhino, Bikes, Centurions/Terminators and the like. My guess is a year after they've finished with the first pass of the 8E codex line.
For now, it looks like the subfactions for the Guards are on the chopping block, and possibly the Inquisition models might get wiped/thinned next.
Stormonu wrote: What would be the equivalent of Tomb Kings and Brettonia for 40K?
Mini marines.
I still think that's coming down the road, but not until they have Primaris replacements in place for the existing kits - stuff like the Rhino, Bikes, Centurions/Terminators and the like. My guess is a year after they've finished with the first pass of the 8E codex line.
For now, it looks like the subfactions for the Guards are on the chopping block, and possibly the Inquisition models might get wiped/thinned next.
Okay, let's be clear:
"Subfactions" for the Guard=Psykers, Commissars, Ratlings/Ogryns, and Scions.
What they're doing is removing regiment specific models. Regiments are technically factions--but not in the way you're plugging this nonsensical ranting.
Ravajaxe wrote: So the title pretty much sums it up. All the old (and not so old) metal infantry regiments are OOP and "no longer available" on the GW website.
Even the Armageddon Steel legion (dating from 3rd edition) and Vostroyan (dating from middle of 4th edition, which is newer than current cadians).
These were still quite complete ranges, until now. No warning, no "Last Chance to Buy" operation.
So pretty sadface for me.
Could it be, new plastic guardsmen kits in the future? Only hope can save us.
Vostroyans were the onlyIG regiment I ever liked, but I couldn’t bring myself to buy metal. I’m still hoping that GW will do them, or something very like them, in plastic one day.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Only true if you have infinite money. But for me I have to pick a few items each order.
Not even close. I play on a budget, probably less than yours. Last 3+ years, I've net zero spend on hobby, actually extracting funds from GW product.
You had over 20 years (Tallarn & Mordian metals were released in 1996). If it wasn't worth your time in the past 20+ years, then it wasn't important.
If it ever becomes important, eBay is over there...
Dafuc??
I have have the whole tallarn, mordian, old school cadian range. I was working my way of through the sister of battle range. I just 40 minutes ago put in an order for the last sister models I needed. Why? Because I am scared they will go without a last chance offer. If valhallan and vostroyan would come last chance today, I would have bought them instead. And sisters new month.
Is that so hard to get inside your brain?
And about 20 years.. I have some gakky painted valhallans from when I was a kid. But recently as an adult I have become a completionist collector. Who want completely new and unpainted models. You think I can buy GWs complete range in one single order?
I would hope that GW have proven to themselves with Necromunda that they can sell single unit plastic boxes in decent enough volumes to make IG regiments a worthwhile line.
I have no doubt they would sell far more IG regiment boxes (even better if they were dual/triple regiment styles) than Necromunda gangs. I still don't see it happening though.
If you're not buying the thing when it's available, then you have zero right to complain when it's no longer available.
Which goes back to what I said, if they aren't selling well enough, stop selling them. The main issue I have is that they didn't give any forewarning they were discontinuing several product lines, which I'm sure leaves a fair number of people in a rather bad spot. If I had half a Vostroyan army, and planned on finishing it with parts of my next two paychecks, I'd be pretty upset, as my only option now to finish said army is to go and pay double or more on the secondary market. I personally haven't played 40k in years, and have no real plans to ever again, but dropping a product abruptly leaves a lot of players up a creek.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If you're not buying the thing when it's available, then you have zero right to complain when it's no longer available.
That's ridiculous and ridiculous and I'm going to ridicule it and there's nothing you can do to stop me from ridiculing that ridiculous assumptions.
They definitely should have put a notice saying the lines were closed to being discontinued.
Ginsu33 wrote: I suspect new Regiments that would clash with the aesthetics of the old ones are coming.
Waiting around is a pain though, this could take years.
Honestly? I've been thinking for awhile that the removal of the Solar Auxilia from FW's range is because we're going to see something similar to that in concept/design from GW in plastic. The stuff from Rogue Trader seems to be a step in that possible direction.
With Guilliman being back and seeming to want to return to 'the good ol' days' I could see him doing something like that.
This was my exact thought. They’ll consolidate the range by introducing a 40k equivalent to the Solar Auxilia.
Kanluwen wrote: Honestly? I've been thinking for awhile that the removal of the Solar Auxilia from FW's range is because we're going to see something similar to that in concept/design from GW in plastic. The stuff from Rogue Trader seems to be a step in that possible direction.
If that was true, FW would axe their custode range first - because not only it's far uglier than GW plastic ones, GW range replaces it pretty much 100% with better and cheaper models. You can now build nice HH custode army using plastic only - even Valdor can be replaced by gluing a pile of random off scale mismatched plastic animal body parts to GW Tribune, so I don't buy that conspiracy theory. Why axe something that still sells and has no replacement at the moment encouraging people to just dump half finished armies on ebay, when something with direct replacements is still in store?
Kanluwen wrote: Honestly? I've been thinking for awhile that the removal of the Solar Auxilia from FW's range is because we're going to see something similar to that in concept/design from GW in plastic. The stuff from Rogue Trader seems to be a step in that possible direction.
If that was true, FW would axe their custode range first - because not only it's far uglier than GW plastic ones, GW range replaces it pretty much 100% with better and cheaper models. You can now build nice HH custode army using plastic only - even Valdor can be replaced by gluing a pile of random off scale mismatched plastic animal body parts to GW Tribune, so I don't buy that conspiracy theory. Why axe something that still sells and has no replacement at the moment encouraging people to just dump half finished armies on ebay, when something with direct replacements is still in store?
I must have missed the plastic Telemon, Firepikes, and whatnots.
As much as I love the rogue trader mini preview, and I plan on using some in my guard army, I would be very disappointed if the soldiers seen in RT were a new AM regiment.
Dryaktylus wrote: There's an artwork in the Knights codex with some guardsmen that look like some kind of Cadian-Steel Legion hybrids. Maybe we get those as plastics?
Old art. That style keeps cropping up, Cadians with backpack mounted weapons.
I've been leaning towards it being a kit coming at some point.
Phobosftw wrote: Sooo.. no one has been able to get so much as a peep from GW on this issue?
We've gotten answers. There was a whole thread in 40k general with the Facebook screencaps of emails.
They're donezo. They could come back at some point as a Made to Order range.
So the only sensible conclusion is that all the regiments will be coming back in plastic then? It wouldn't make much sense to get rid of all the regiments right after they just spent all that time giving them special rules & fleshing them out in the 8th edition codex. I've spent thousands of dollars on my IG collection & intend to spend thousands more. However, if they try to "primaris" the guard & reinforce all of these regiments with some new super duper Guilliman regiment to replenish their ranks that will be the nail in the coffin for me.
So, it looks like the city ruin kits are gone too, as well as the firestorm redoubt. Considering we are getting new ruins in kill team, maybe we can look forward to new kits? Also, consider that the steel legion is still available in the least supported way, so I would expect something to help them out.
Dandelion wrote: So, it looks like the city ruin kits are gone too, as well as the firestorm redoubt. Considering we are getting new ruins in kill team, maybe we can look forward to new kits? Also, consider that the steel legion is still available in the least supported way, so I would expect something to help them out.
Yup, they all got phased out aside from the large Aquila thing.
As for the Cadians, they'd need more than an upgrade sprue to be good again. A complete redesign at the very least, not to mention packing those sprues to the gills with extra guff.
I didn't mind their fictional take on Interceptor Body Armor with the Deltoid protectors. It was, and remains cool to me.
What I am tired of, is the lack of knee pads, gloves, and a hydration pack on their backpack, if they even have one! That damn canteen just looks so homeless to me in 2018, and the Imperial Guard helmets have no attachments, you might get some kind of camera thing if you buy a FW upgrade kit, but even that looks really cheap to me.
Kasrkin gone, Elysian gone.. both were steps in the right direction IMO, however GW rule of thumb seems to be keeping the guard locked in history from the invention of gunpowder to 2001.
Edit: If you google; Resistance Fall of Man Black Ops, you'll seen an interesting take on WW2 mixed with sci-fi kind of trooper. I do like the Solar Auxilia though since they have IMO really good action poses, but it's not what I would consider appropriate by 42m, especially since the cadian look is now the general/standard issue look.
Ginsu33 wrote: I didn't mind their fictional take on Interceptor Body Armor with the Deltoid protectors. It was, and remains cool to me.
What I am tired of, is the lack of knee pads, gloves, and a hydration pack on their backpack, if they even have one! That damn canteen just looks so homeless to me in 2018, and the Imperial Guard helmets have no attachments, you might get some kind of camera thing if you buy a FW upgrade kit, but even that looks really cheap to me.
Kasrkin gone, Elysian gone.. both were steps in the right direction IMO, however GW rule of thumb seems to be keeping the guard locked in history from the invention of gunpowder to 2001.
If they make IG look all modern and high tech, then there’s no way I’m buying any. I want my 40k to look even more gothic, not less. I never liked the IG regiments because they all looked too modern to me.
If they make IG look all modern and high tech, then there’s no way I’m buying any. I want my 40k to look even more gothic, not less. I never liked the IG regiments because they all looked too modern to me.
Phobosftw wrote: Sooo.. no one has been able to get so much as a peep from GW on this issue?
We've gotten answers. There was a whole thread in 40k general with the Facebook screencaps of emails.
They're donezo. They could come back at some point as a Made to Order range.
So the only sensible conclusion is that all the regiments will be coming back in plastic then? It wouldn't make much sense to get rid of all the regiments right after they just spent all that time giving them special rules & fleshing them out in the 8th edition codex. I've spent thousands of dollars on my IG collection & intend to spend thousands more. However, if they try to "primaris" the guard & reinforce all of these regiments with some new super duper Guilliman regiment to replenish their ranks that will be the nail in the coffin for me.
I wouldn't hold my breath on everything coming back in plastic. The absolute best case scenario would be that every year or so they do a "Warzone", as I remember rumor awhile back of them doing a big Armageddon thing, and then releasing plastic regiments (and foes!) with each Warzone. So one year it would be Armageddon with Steel Legion and Ork kits (or Daemons), then Tallarn vs Chaos Marines, etc. Even that is a faint hope though.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Maybe upgrade sprues for Cadians?
It would not be great but you could get somewhat close to most regiments with some new heads torsos or arms...
They'd be better off making a new generic guardsman kit, and then releasing upgrade sprues for that. As is, Cadians are fairly barren aside from a few grenade bits and canteens.
I suppose if they double up the Cadian Command Squad, with all its extra bits and gribbles, and sold the combined 10 man box at a reasonable price, that could work. Still though, I would assume it is easier to design models with modularity in mind rather than hastily work it 10+ years later.
Though, a best of all worlds scenario - somehow all the regiments get released in plastic, and are all designed with swapping parts between them in mind. Yes, some combos would look really stupid together, but the opportunity to just go kit bash crazy would be amazing.
It would not be great but you could get somewhat close to most regiments with some new heads torsos or arms...
If there are new Astra Militarum infantry kits coming (which I doubt but then again, see Primaris Marines ), then they could cover Cadians, Mordians, Praetorians and possibly Catachans in one kit - the same legs, torsos and arms will cover Cadians, Mordians and Praetorians if you sculpt the arms and torsos with epaulettes then add shoulder armour plates as separate pieces to go over those, and add three different head/helmet types. Catachans can be covered by adding bare torsos and arms and unhelmeted heads. They might be sufficiently different to be an upgrade sprue or separate box set (like Blood Angels Space Marine squads).
The other three (and Elysians and Death Korps) are sufficiently different from each other as to be difficult to make into a "grouped" kit.
Off the top of my head, the metal include;
* Armageddon
* Attilan
* Cadian
* Catachan
* Mordian
* Praetorian
* Tallarn
* Tanith
* Valhallan
* Vostroyan
I think we'll be seeing some new plastic Astra Militarum this year. Remember when Sly Marbo had a limited release over Christmas holidays 2017? They said on the Warhammer Community site that he would be more widely available in 2018. So I guess we'll at least get Catachans. Community page for reference.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Only true if you have infinite money. But for me I have to pick a few items each order.
Not even close. I play on a budget, probably less than yours. Last 3+ years, I've net zero spend on hobby, actually extracting funds from GW product.
You had over 20 years (Tallarn & Mordian metals were released in 1996). If it wasn't worth your time in the past 20+ years, then it wasn't important.
If it ever becomes important, eBay is over there...
well I do not agree. Over 20 years many people might have taken a pause of some sort. In my case there are some mini I plan to buy "when I have some extra cash" the point is lastly gorgeous release have been frantic. Again, my only issue is GW´s lack of communication. Why they do not put it on "last chance to buy" for one week ?
JohnHwangDD wrote: Off the top of my head, the metal include;
* Armageddon
* Attilan
* Cadian
* Catachan
* Mordian
* Praetorian
* Tallarn
* Tanith
* Valhallan
* Vostroyan
JohnHwangDD wrote: Off the top of my head, the metal include;
* Armageddon
* Attilan
* Cadian
* Catachan
* Mordian
* Praetorian
* Tallarn
* Tanith
* Valhallan
* Vostroyan
That ignores the FW resin.
The Tanith were always a "niche" faction. The Mordians, Tallarns, Valhallans and Praetorians (and the 2nd edition Cadians and Catachans) all had a Lieutenant, three special weapons, four heavy weapon teams, two sergeants and at least six different lasgun miniatures. The Armageddon and Vostroyan ranges were similarly fleshed out. The Tanich, by contrast had ony five characters, four lasguns and a plasma gun model. The Attilans only had five models (two riders, one sergeant, a standard bearer and a lieutenant), and they disappeared years ago and no one gave a gak.
Elbows wrote: The RT guy posted up there is actually a Necromundian
No he isn't. He's an Arcadian. The ones in the painting you posted are Necromundan. In 1st edition, Imperial Guard / Imperial Army troops only had one uniform, so those miniatures can be from Necromunda, Arcadia, any other planet that gets name checked in the books, etc. It wasn't until 2nd edition when the the Perrys started cranking out the historically-inspired different regiments.
Catachans - US troops in Vietnam, '60s / '70s
Valhallans - WW2 Soviet Red Army
Cadians - WW2 German army (you can see it in the thigh-length tunic and the webbing, and even the helmet is reminiscent of the German army helmet)
Attilans - Mongols
Tallarns - Arab tribesmen, with a hint of WW2 British SAS / LRDG
Mordians - parade dess. Some say specifically US Marines in dress uniform, but I'm not sufficiently familiar to say.
Praetorians - British Army, 1870s / 1880s
Armageddon - WW2 German Fallschirmjäger
Krieg - WW1 French with German helmets and British machineguns
The Vostroyans are stereotypically "Russian", but don't reflect any actual military uniform that I'm aware of, and the Elysians are their own thing.
I didn't get any fallschirmjäger vibes from Armageddon, i always thought of more like a german greatcoat with gasmask look. (But looking at the fallschirmjäger helmet they are similar i must admit. so probably a mix of influences)
AndrewGPaul wrote: Yeah, it was "disguised" by making the Steel Legion mechanised heavy infantry.
Which isn't even really a "disguise" for anyone familiar with the history of the Fallschirmjagers...as they basically became mechanized infantry(Steel Legion weren't "heavy" infantry) as the war dragged on.
Which makes me even more sad that all those regiments might never come back even in plastic because of historical influences that cant be copyrighted:(
Whats weird is... theres a multi-page article on Armageddon in this months white dwarf. It also features some info on Angron, the Orks, Space Wolves... all stuff thats either rumoured or confirmed to be getting an update soon. If nothing else had changed, no biggie, probably just needed to fill some pages... but coincidentally, they remove the models for Armageddon? In the same month they do a feature on them? Seems a bit... off.
Huh, I thought the Cadians were based on modern (for the time of their release) British soldiers - though I’d also heard jokingly, Canadian.
Recently went to a new game store that had started up with another stores old stock. They had a ton of old kits, including a lot of old metals from the 90’s. Might need to pick up some of their Catechan kits before someone else snags them now.
Stormonu wrote: Huh, I thought the Cadians were based on modern (for the time of their release) British soldiers - though I’d also heard jokingly, Canadian.
The Canadian thing is because people can't spell.
Recently went to a new game store that had started up with another stores old stock. They had a ton of old kits, including a lot of old metals from the 90’s. Might need to pick up some of their Catechan kits before someone else snags them now.
A lot of the 'inspiration' mentioned on the previous page is questionable at best. It's outright been stated that the Tallarn are based off the 'Desert Rats'.
The metal Cadians were based off the gear that NATO countries were using at the time.
It used to be that each regiment was missing a special weapon and a heavy weapon option. For special weapons it was flamer, plasma, melta and, grenade launcher. For heavy it was autocannon, heavy bolter, lascannon and, missile launcher. Was there a regiment that didn't have to following combination of grenade launcher and heavy bolter? Does anyone know/remember which regiments lacked which weapons?
IIRC Praetorians lacked the plasma and had all of the heavies. They may have been an exception to the general rule since they were a very limited production run.
The influences probably came not just from sas/deserts rats/british ww2 army but also ww1 british/Lawrence of arabia, arabs tribesmen and much more.
Real-talk:
Have you actually ever seen images of the Desert Rats/LRDG? The stuff that Al'rahem is wearing there is not uncommon in photos of British troops.
What do you mean? I have seen british troops with a head dress, but i cant say i saw them walking with such colorful clothing as al rahem, neither with a curved sword and a scabbard with tassets. And the name Al´rahem doesn't seem very british either.
That seems to me to be inspired by arabs, am i wrong?
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: What do you mean? I have seen british troops with a head dress, but i cant say i saw them walking with such colorful clothing as al rahem, neither with a curved sword and a scabbard with tassets. And the name Al´rahem doesn't seem very british either.
That seems to me to be inspired by arabs, am i wrong?
You're not seeing color in most of those photos in all likelihood and unless you're looking for photos of the LRDG out in the field? You won't tend to find this stuff. Part of the reason is that they wore uniforms proper so the Germans and Italians couldn't accuse them of being spies.
Anyways:
That 'sword' is based off a Tunisian dagger, just upsized. Remember that this model is fairly old--sculpting has come a long way. I mean for real, look at the size of that damn Plasma Pistol!
The clothing tends to be fairly colorful when you look at it--but look at the 'overrobe'. Desert colored.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: IIRC Praetorians lacked the plasma and had all of the heavies. They may have been an exception to the general rule since they were a very limited production run.
Correct, Praetorians didn't have a plasma trooper, and since the Praetorians were just Mordians with head swaps, the same goes for the Mordians--no plasma.
The influences probably came not just from sas/deserts rats/british ww2 army but also ww1 british/Lawrence of arabia, arabs tribesmen and much more.
Ok given that they are 'Desert rats' Al'rahem is a second generation emigrant getting back to the family's roots wearing wardrobe provided by the units local interpreters. Or maybe he went local very well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, for the record. Always go full local.
Volunteers joining the LRDG came with the uniforms and equipment of their parent unit. As such, New Zealand, South African, and British uniforms intermixed as well as the uniforms of the Royal Tank Regiment, REME, Signal Corp, Yeomanry, and Guards units. Considering all the options, Khaki Drill (KD) and Battle Dress (BD) were never a "standard".
To complicate matters, troopers dressed as they felt appropriate for the mission at hand.
However when joining the LRDG each trooper was issued the following equipment:
·Arab Head-dress: While the traditional Arab head-dress consists of three parts: Thagiyah a tight fitting white skullcap, the flowing white head covering called Gutrah, and a black chorded band called an Igal, the LRDG issued a sand colored Gutrah and the black Igal. It is unclear if the Thagiyah was issued.
·Motorcyclist/Tankers Goggles
·Sunglasses
·Tropal coat, a heavy kapok lined overcoat.
·The Hebron Coat, a shaggy goat skinned coat, locally acquired. ·Chapplies (Desert sandals)
It should be noted that Bagnold obtained the Arab head-dress and hebron coat from the stores of the Trans Jordan Frontier Force.
... it might be a good idea to actually go back to discussing the whole "Metal regiments are gone" topic, dont you think? And possibly why GW chose to feature Armageddon in WD this month, the month they took them from circulation?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: IIRC Praetorians lacked the plasma and had all of the heavies. They may have been an exception to the general rule since they were a very limited production run.
Correct, Praetorians didn't have a plasma trooper, and since the Praetorians were just Mordians with head swaps, the same goes for the Mordians--no plasma.
No comlink trooper either for the Mordians although Praetorians did end up with the lovely Bugler and Standard Bearer.
I think all the 2nd Ed Regiments had access to all the Heavy Weapons but IIRC, for specials the gaps were:
Cadian - Grenade Launcher
Tallarn - Flamer
Valhallan - Plasma
Catachan - No gap but, for the UK at least, the female Grenade Launcher model was special event only. I did visit USA and Australia around 2000 - 2001 and I can recall seeing that model on GW store pegs.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: IIRC Praetorians lacked the plasma and had all of the heavies. They may have been an exception to the general rule since they were a very limited production run.
Correct, Praetorians didn't have a plasma trooper, and since the Praetorians were just Mordians with head swaps, the same goes for the Mordians--no plasma.
No comlink trooper either for the Mordians although Praetorians did end up with the lovely Bugler and Standard Bearer.
Tyr13 wrote:... it might be a good idea to actually go back to discussing the whole "Metal regiments are gone" topic, dont you think? And possibly why GW chose to feature Armageddon in WD this month, the month they took them from circulation?
The base Steel Legion squad is still up though, they haven't removed them yet. The Plasma Trooper and the HWT are gone, however. It would be awesome to have a plastic Steel Legion kit come out with Armageddon stuff, but didn't all of the rumors point to Space Wolves vs Orks?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: IIRC Praetorians lacked the plasma and had all of the heavies. They may have been an exception to the general rule since they were a very limited production run.
Correct, Praetorians didn't have a plasma trooper, and since the Praetorians were just Mordians with head swaps, the same goes for the Mordians--no plasma.
No comlink trooper either for the Mordians although Praetorians did end up with the lovely Bugler and Standard Bearer.
I think all the 2nd Ed Regiments had access to all the Heavy Weapons but IIRC, for specials the gaps were:
Cadian - Grenade Launcher
Tallarn - Flamer
Valhallan - Plasma
Catachan - No gap but, for the UK at least, the female Grenade Launcher model was special event only. I did visit USA and Australia around 2000 - 2001 and I can recall seeing that model on GW store pegs.
If memory serves - Steel Legion only had Plasma and Grenade Launchers for special, and Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, and Lascannon for heavy weapons.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Off the top of my head, the metal include;
* Armageddon
* Attilan
* Cadian
* Catachan
* Mordian
* Praetorian
* Tallarn
* Tanith
* Valhallan
* Vostroyan
That ignores the FW resin.
So, ten regiments listed, two of which are already in plastic (Cadian and Catachan, though I doubt anyone would object to a "modern" kit of either), one was only ever a single unit which is no longer in the Codex (Attilan) and one was a novel tie-in with nowhere near a full line-up (Tanith).
That leaves us with six regiments. Two of them can easily be done just by adding two types of head to the kits (Mordian and Praetorian). The fabled Greatcoat Infantry kit might serve for another two (Valhallan and Steel Legion). The remaining two aren't close enough to any of the other regiments to be merged with them, I don't think - but you could always add additional regiments to the range with new heads, or additional bits, or something, to make those units dual regiment sets as well.
As it stands, six boxes would bring four regiments back with full options, and a further six brings back the other two. Bringing back the Rough Riders would be nice, but I doubt it'll happen - wouldn't be surprised to see M2O releases of the Tanith every time a new Ghosts book drops, though.
Elbows wrote: That really sucks, and kills any interest I had in doing Guard in the future (I sure as hell wouldn't use boring Cadians). On the plus side I've "almost" ordered Vostroyans about four times this year, so I'm glad I'm not in the middle of a project.
The move away from proper regiments by GW with regard to the IG was probably the nail in the coffin for me. Huge mistake. That army lost any character it had.
That's exacty because people only "nearly ordered" them for like the last 25 years and never actually bought any that those ranges are OOP.
Character doesn't mean anything for GW if that doesn't transfer into sales.
It's the Tomb Kings syndrome.
I know at leats 30 people that were totally 100% going to buy Tomb Kings THIS YEARS for sure like really 100% sure.....in 2002. then 2009.. then 2013...
Everysingle time they are "surprised" about the squat they totally didn't have time to prepare for.
Everyone always says they’d need three kits for a new regiment, but why couldn’t they do it with just one? The current Cadian and Catachan squad boxes are so bare of bits, you could almost fit all of the command squad’s “extra” bits on there (so excluding the torsos and legs). The same goes for the heavy weapons teams if you disregard the actual heavy weapons. The current heavy weapons sprue could be easily reused for any new regiment. I’d say one box for any new regiment would fit fine? Look at the genestealer neophyte box (the one based on the Cadians with the upgrade sprue): that also includes all the heavy weapon bits.
We know GW are bringing out new guard-esque models with Rogue Trader soonish. It would also not be surprising if new Catachans are on the way... we’re still waiting on Marbo’s ‘proper’ release.
Considering that, from a marketing perspective, it probably makes sense for these models to be the only real options for other regiments rather than just additions to an already huge range.
I expect we will get them ‘made to order’ at some point, but who knows how long that could be.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Which makes me even more sad that all those regiments might never come back even in plastic because of historical influences that cant be copyrighted:(
The models can absolutely be copyrighted. Historical miniatures are protected by copyright (or the appropriate IP laws for sculptures). If they do come back, they'll be more "40k-fied), I imagine - bionic limbs, eyes and skull implants on officers, vox-casters, servo-skulls and that sort of thing.
A lot of the 'inspiration' mentioned on the previous page is questionable at best. It's outright been stated that the Tallarn are based off the 'Desert Rats'.
The metal Cadians were based off the gear that NATO countries were using at the time.
I've not seen these outright statemets, but I do have access to the entire White Dwarf back catalogue and almost all the Citadel Journals, so if you can suggest where it was spelled out I'll revise my statement.
I did say the Tallarns were based off the SAS / LRDG, but there's some of T. H. Lawrence from WW1 in there too (Lawrence of Arabia). Not the Desert Rats as a whole because none of the Tallarns are in khaki shirts and shorts.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Which makes me even more sad that all those regiments might never come back even in plastic because of historical influences that cant be copyrighted:(
The models can absolutely be copyrighted. Historical miniatures are protected by copyright (or the appropriate IP laws for sculptures). If they do come back, they'll be more "40k-fied), I imagine - bionic limbs, eyes and skull implants on officers, vox-casters, servo-skulls and that sort of thing.
I've enough Mordians, metal Cadians and Tallarn to anchor a ship at sea and I definitely agree. Great sculpts but other than the occasional eagle there was little to make them 40k.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: It used to be that each regiment was missing a special weapon and a heavy weapon option. For special weapons it was flamer, plasma, melta and, grenade launcher. For heavy it was autocannon, heavy bolter, lascannon and, missile launcher. Was there a regiment that didn't have to following combination of grenade launcher and heavy bolter? Does anyone know/remember which regiments lacked which weapons?
IIRC Praetorians lacked the plasma and had all of the heavies. They may have been an exception to the general rule since they were a very limited production run.
When they were first released, the metal 2nd edition regiments (and the stormtroopers) had three special weapons out of four (meltagun, flamer, plasma gun, grenade launcher) and three heavy weapons out of five (missile launcher, mortar, heavy bolter, lascannon, autocannon). Eventually, all the regiments had models sculpted for all the heavy weapons.
Catachans - meltagun, plasma gun, flamer (meltagun and missile launcher in the box set). The female trooper with a grenade launcher was originally a Games Day exclusive in 1995, and sort of sneaked into the general range (but not the catalogue) later on.
Valhallans - flamer, grenade launcher, meltagun (flamer and mortar in the box set).
Cadians - flamer, plasma gun, melta gun (flamer and heavy bolter in the box set).
Mordian - grenade launcher, meltagun, flamer (grenade launcher and lascannon in the box set. The "classic" standard equipment). A plasma gun model was made later on, but it was either uneleased or only a very limited release.
Tallarn - meltagun, plasma gun, grenade launcher (meltagun and autocannon in the box set).
Storm Troopers - plasma gun, meltagun. They also only had heavy bolters and autocannon available as heavy weapons.
Praetorian - grenade launcher, meltagun, flamer. The special platoon box included a heavy bolter, autocannon, mortar and two lascannon. a missile launcher team was made available separately. They were also the only regiment to get a standard bearer (with no rules).
Apart from Storm Troopers, all of those also had two sergeants, a lieutenant and the Cadians, Catachans and Vahallans hade a vox-operator (the Praetorians have a bugler, which I use as a vox-operator )
Yep. Plastic is inherently worse as a medium for high-detail models like the current DKoK line. The only advantage it offers is price, and since I can already buy DKoK kits faster than I can paint them being able to save $5/squad is worthless to me.
While this was true in the past, the current level of detail in plastic kits is as good as resin casts. Everything from last year's Death Guard onward has been exceptional in terms of quality and detail. I mean just look at these glorious sprues:
Spoiler:
At that level of detail I can't see any guard regiments suffering from a remake in plastic.
Absolute max quality is still lower and tradeoff you have bazillion pieces to assemble when resin can be done in far fewer. And GW doesn't even utilize benefit of bazillion pieces by making the new plastic rather monoposed anyway with fixed poses and parts that fit.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Dammit, where do people email to put pressure on GW for a last chance to buy? Costumer support?
People could have done that over the last 2 decades by buying them. One of the main rules of business is, never believe a customer that says "they'll buy something soon", especially in a hobby full of impulse buyers. If people wanted these, then they would own them.. since they don't own them then they probably never actually wanted them.
Ah yes of course how stupid of me. Every player has thousands of euros worth putting all the time and models gets painted immediately. Yes how silly of me. I'm just unusual one with limited income and taking time to paint existing models. Others obviously can buy all the models they want immediately including trio of warlords and top of that the models even paint themselves!
Albertorius wrote: Honestly, I'm still surprised they have waited so long to discontinue them. I mean, most are quite a bit older than a lot of their players.
I figure they wanted to keep metal Sisters around but didn't think they'd sell enough to keep the machines running, so they kept around metal Guard to add volume.
Now that Sisters are on the way out, the same low volume problem exists for Guard and so they get dropped.
Ginsu33 wrote: What I am tired of, is the lack of knee pads, gloves, and a hydration pack on their backpack.
If only someone made 28mm modern tacticals... *sigh*
(1/72 is widely available, though...)
Spectre and Empress miniatures come to mind, but you'll only get head swaps out of Empress, while Spectre are full body figures I believe.
Pig Iron have these really nice heads though:
I heard that the Imperial Army is being reinstated to "assist" the guard with Cawl pattern equipment and man power.
Fluff is roughly that Grandpapa Smurf thinks the Guard are unsalvageable as an effective force. He also feels scions are influenced to much by other factions to trust.
So he decides he better call cawl to get something sorted.
As someone who owns way too many Guard armies already (4 of GW/GW-inspired origin, 2 from other manufacturers), a bit of heads up would have been nice. I might have grabbed a few Steel Legion heavy teams, but that army is still fine in terms of troops really. I'm sure some of the alternative producers will start filling in soon for those regiments that aren't already represented. I do somewhat dread the idea of Vic making Steel Legion though; I already have enough of her product lying around but mixing in a few female troopers would certainly be a siren's call.
It does suck for the folks who can only regularly find games at GW stores though. Have to wonder if there's a grander GW plan at work here that will be revealed in due course.
It does suck for the folks who can only regularly find games at GW stores though. Have to wonder if there's a grander GW plan at work here that will be revealed in due course.
Ginsu33 wrote: What I am tired of, is the lack of knee pads, gloves, and a hydration pack on their backpack.
If only someone made 28mm modern tacticals... *sigh*
(1/72 is widely available, though...)
Spectre and Empress miniatures come to mind, but you'll only get head swaps out of Empress, while Spectre are full body figures I believe.
Pig Iron have these really nice heads though:
If it's modern style tactical gear you want, you'll want to check out Anvil Industry. They have a ton og modern style tactical gear. Mad Robot has some, too. Mad Robot also makes parts based on the defunct metal Guard lines, too. So if you want squads of Steel Legion, Mordians, Tallarn, Vostroyans, Valhallans, or even Rogue Trader era Guard, Mad Robot makes all of them.
They were great lookins models but im a bit on the fence about them, on one hand they provided the guard with diversity (outside 3rdpart). However on the other hand in an army that uses so huge numbers of troops you will quikly run into that your platon mostly look all the same since their poses were limited.
I will still miss the Steel Legion but hopefully we will get some kind of replacement.
I own both steel legion and valhallan armies. The disappearance of the range means I won't be able to expand my armies in the future, though to be fair the only things I've brought in the last couple of years were some of the valhallens that came as part of a made to order last year, and the main thing I want is some valhallan missile launcher teams which have been OOP for years.
I had always planned to buy some more steel legion lascannon teams to convert to autocannons using bits from the plastic cadian's, but haven't got around to it. Guess I never will now.
Still hoping we get a made to order for the praetorian guard one day. I'd Literally buy a whole army in one go if it happened.
Once again, if you want X, but missed out, and are now finally opening your wallet, eBay is over there...
Huge volumes were produced, and it's not hard to find things that are brand new. It's also not hard to find things in canonical paint scheme. And if it's badly painted, it's not hard to strip them down to bare metal.
And being allmost entirely 1-piece metal, this stuff lasts almost forever, so there will be plenty available 10, 20 years from now.
Yeah but there is the problem of prices and irregular availability on ebay.
Sure, the basic troopers are quite easy to obtain at reasonable prices.
However, if you need officers, special weapons, heavy weapons, the quest starts to become tricky.
The reason being that these were already phased out years ago.
Note that these specials / heavy were relaunched briefly for the very first "made to order" commercial operation.
A made to order fiasco that only lasted less than a week-end !
The problem gets exacerbated with Vostroyans.
They are the most recent range (2006), were already somewhat expensive at their start, so the supply is lower than on second edition ranges, such as Valhallans.
And important models such as mortar HWT, the officers trio were already missing years from now.
They are sold at prices of 20 to 35 £ a piece now. this could only get worse in the near future.
my bet is they are listening to the cries of millions of terran souls ... and the OOP process is the first step ... heck they said themselves marbo will return in the future ... what a better way than new catachan ... and hopefully more for the rest later
... again wishful thinking but if we got sob soon in plastic ... what's stopping regiments from getting their due update? ... could be something like necromunda as part of a boardgame or maybe killteam bands ... who knows really
Ravajaxe wrote: Yeah but there is the problem of prices and irregular availability on ebay.
Sure, the basic troopers are quite easy to obtain at reasonable prices.
However, if you need officers, special weapons, heavy weapons, the quest starts to become tricky.
The reason being that these were already phased out years ago.
Note that these specials / heavy were relaunched briefly for the very first "made to order" commercial operation.
A made to order fiasco that only lasted less than a week-end !
The problem gets exacerbated with Vostroyans.
They are the most recent range (2006), were already somewhat expensive at their start, so the supply is lower than on second edition ranges, such as Valhallans.
And important models such as mortar HWT, the officers trio were already missing years from now.
They are sold at prices of 20 to 35 £ a piece now. this could only get worse in the near future.
If you are patient and planning the army for the long haul, ebay is certainly doable. I haven't seen any cheap Valhallans lately, but I know I got Chenkov and a 3 of each special weapon they were made with for about 30 bucks (incidentally this was about 1 week before the made to order where all 4 model types showed up). With patience, you can easily get a full guard army for fairly cheap there - the key is to parse through the garbage of "pro painted, 50$ per model!" bits. Also note - most of those individual pieces listed for 20-35$ each have been up for a long time, don't judge by the listings that won't sell, judge by the ones that actually get through.
I can't even see the ebay prices rising over much, considering about 2/3 of listings for metal guard models have been listed as "oop" for years on there, regardless of whether they were or not.
And if not ebay, you can always check the swap shop here, or go over to bartertown.
If you want a last chance to buy the regiments it doesn't hurt to send an email to GW and they might listen. Many of us are paying great amount of money on our collection straight from GW and an email to costumer support is something they wont have a problem with.
If there is enough of interest there is a chance that they actually listen.
When they pulled tomb kings and bretonnia they came back for a second time after being sold out, giving all those who were left out a last chance to buy.
Of course sometimes products go. But a last chance period is not unreasonable at all, they even have a category on their website that is called that, and they usually use it but not at this time for some unknown reason.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If one can wait 20+ years while the item is in the shop, one can wait 20+ days while the item is on eBay.
What if say I had only started playing 40k in the last year and had started collecting Valhallans in the last couple of months. Do you then class me as someone that has had 20+ years to buy them? What if I was a teenager who'd only just got into the hobby recently?
No company is obligated to keep making things only a few people buy. Save the wailing and tears, peeps, you’ll just dehydrate. I severely doubt there are hundreds of teenagers who just started collecting direct-only metal regiments who will be inconvenienced by this move.
You know they bring back fan favorites in the made to order program just for this very reason? For people having missed out when they went oop?
If oeople express their desire in forums/email/facebook/twitter for what they want all the more likely it will return in such a way.
I for example would like a rerun on the imperial guard made to order + valhallan regiment, as I didn't have enough money at that time to buy exactly what I wanted.
What I don't understand is people need to gak on people who want to spend more money in the hobby they love.
What's weird though is they just got very significant and detailed regiment rules in the Codex (which they never had before). So yes, there are new players suddenly looking for Vostroyans and Valhallans. Maybe they built their whole army in the last few months, I don't know.
When marines get Chapter rules it's not a big deal since a Blood Angel is just marine painted red. But is a Tallarn just a Cadian painted tan?
If GW comes out with a boxed set, or several sets, that can make all the regiments it might make sense but for now...
If GW had called their regiment rules 'Raiders' or 'Gunlines' or 'Mechanized Infantry' it would be fine but they called them Tallarn, Mordian and Steel Legion.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What's weird though is they just got very significant and detailed regiment rules in the Codex (which they never had before). So yes, there are new players suddenly looking for Vostroyans and Valhallans. Maybe they built their whole army in the last few months, I don't know.
That is weird, yes.
FW are also trimming things, looks like a decree must have gone out to slim down the number of SKUs?
Sad because they were more characterful than the malformed/ugly plastic Cadians, but not so much because they were old, expensive and hampered by their monopose nature, a real problem for an army where you're likely to be fielding a lot of units.
Hopefully there'll be a new plastic solution to the regiments, I know myself and a lot of others would throw much cash at new, posable and interesting plastic IG units.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What's weird though is they just got very significant and detailed regiment rules in the Codex (which they never had before). So yes, there are new players suddenly looking for Vostroyans and Valhallans. Maybe they built their whole army in the last few months, I don't know.
That is weird, yes.
FW are also trimming things, looks like a decree must have gone out to slim down the number of SKUs?
Undoubtedly. GW, like many companies, is constantly generating new products which at some point means older products, especially slow-moving ones, are going to get culled. I'm not sure anyone is really faulting the decision to cut the lines so much as the zero heads up and lack of a final made-to-order run of such a thing; from a business perspective that's probably a hefty chunk of coin left on the table and a bit of bad-will taken in its place. Not a great choice overall, really.
Of course, we just presume that they're being cut because it makes sense. It could be that GW is suspending production of metal briefly while they make internal adjustments to their production facilities and they'll be put back on offer at some point in the future. Not the way I would bet, per se, but also a possibility.
I certainly wouldn't be surprised if either their caster(s) or machinery is out of action. Old GW used to have lots of machines and plenty of staff who knew what they were doing,
The way i see it is that they usually do the "last chance to buy" thing when removing products, but in this case they didn't. Now as usual practice is to do that, for the guard regiments they didn't for 1 of 2 reasons:
1) there's a good company reason, probably related to manufacturing as to why they got culled at no notice
or
2) They did it just to annoy forum dwellers
I reckon it's probably the former. As to the specifics, we'll likely never know.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What's weird though is they just got very significant and detailed regiment rules in the Codex (which they never had before). So yes, there are new players suddenly looking for Vostroyans and Valhallans. Maybe they built their whole army in the last few months, I don't know.
That is weird, yes.
FW are also trimming things, looks like a decree must have gone out to slim down the number of SKUs?
From what we've heard it wasn't a decree to cut down Skus, as much as the production facilities for both have run out of inventory space and asked for more from senior management (dunno if this would have required building some more space, probably) which was turned down.
So they have to cut some stuff in order to fit in new product.
Kanluwen wrote: Honestly? I've been thinking for awhile that the removal of the Solar Auxilia from FW's range is because we're going to see something similar to that in concept/design from GW in plastic. The stuff from Rogue Trader seems to be a step in that possible direction.
If that was true, FW would axe their custode range first - because not only it's far uglier than GW plastic ones, GW range replaces it pretty much 100% with better and cheaper models. You can now build nice HH custode army using plastic only - even Valdor can be replaced by gluing a pile of random off scale mismatched plastic animal body parts to GW Tribune, so I don't buy that conspiracy theory. Why axe something that still sells and has no replacement at the moment encouraging people to just dump half finished armies on ebay, when something with direct replacements is still in store?
I must have missed the plastic Telemon, Firepikes, and whatnots.
Man, a Custode on a jetbike couldn't move goalposts as fast as you. According to you, a fancy heavy flamer (that can be converted in minutes from any of the dozen plastic Terminator kits, just call it sanicus pattern or something) equals squatting a huge part of the range with zero possible replacements until, at best, 2019?
Just admit your conspiracy theory is utter nonsense that doesn't make sense any way you can look at it and we can move on to do something productive instead.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If one can wait 20+ years while the item is in the shop, one can wait 20+ days while the item is on eBay.
What if say I had only started playing 40k in the last year and had started collecting Valhallans in the last couple of months. Do you then class me as someone that has had 20+ years to buy them?
Yup. Obviously, there were other things that were more important than 40k / IG / Valhallans prior to the last year / few months. And again, it's not like the global supply suddenly evaporated...
I understand why GW did this, but im sad there was no last chance to buy. I was going to buy more mordians, as I only have 2 squads, but now ill probably ebay them as I dont want a half finished army
JohnHwangDD wrote: If one can wait 20+ years while the item is in the shop, one can wait 20+ days while the item is on eBay.
What if say I had only started playing 40k in the last year and had started collecting Valhallans in the last couple of months. Do you then class me as someone that has had 20+ years to buy them?
Yup. Obviously, there were other things that were more important than 40k / IG / Valhallans prior to the last year / few months. And again, it's not like the global supply suddenly evaporated...
Managed to grab three more Steel legion squads at least. That should have me set for the foreseeable future, I hope... Shouldnt really need more than 100 infantry, especially if theyre mechanised.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What's weird though is they just got very significant and detailed regiment rules in the Codex (which they never had before).
Point of order - 4th ed Doctrine system meant you had customised Regiments, with arguably more difference in how they played than the 8th ed book does. Also, at least the Valhallan & Tallarn special characters were still around
JohnnyHell wrote: No company is obligated to keep making things only a few people buy.
Way to argue against something no one is really saying. Most people are saying that they'd have liked some warning. No need to be unreasonable about it.
Dysartes wrote: Point of order - 4th ed Doctrine system meant you had customised Regiments, with arguably more difference in how they played than the 8th ed book does. Also, at least the Valhallan & Tallarn special characters were still around
The Doctrine System isn't really the same thing though. It allowed you to make custom armies that could be anything. Kyoto is talking about detailed regiment rules specific to the actual types - Valhallan, Mordian, Vostroyan, etc. - not a set of generic 'choose your own adventure' Doctrines.
JohnnyHell wrote: No company is obligated to keep making things only a few people buy.
Way to argue against something no one is really saying. Most people are saying that they'd have liked some warning. No need to be unreasonable about it.
Dysartes wrote: Point of order - 4th ed Doctrine system meant you had customised Regiments, with arguably more difference in how they played than the 8th ed book does. Also, at least the Valhallan & Tallarn special characters were still around
The Doctrine System isn't really the same thing though. It allowed you to make custom armies that could be anything. Kyoto is talking about detailed regiment rules specific to the actual types - Valhallan, Mordian, Vostroyan, etc. - not a set of generic 'choose your own adventure' Doctrines.
They had used to doctrine system to make regiment rules for all the regiments as well.
Too lazy to find my 4th ed codex, but if I remember correctly most of the standard regiments had a greater number of doctrine options than you could al la carte in a home baked regiment.
Put me in the 'mildly annoyed' camp. I've had the Gaunt's Ghosts box on the 'someday soon' purchase list for months now (to combine with some spare Last Chancers for a full squad). On a tight budget though, and I knew it would be ages before I got around to painting them, so there was always something more pressing.
If they'd had a 'last chance to buy', I'd have moved them to the top of the list and nabbed 'em.
Oh well. Off to eBay...
BTW, for anyone who doesn't have any Steel Legion or even much interest in the Imperial Guard, but likes metal models as game pieces (I do, because I find the weight satisfying)... the SL models make great generic 40K troopers for multiple factions. All you have to do is file the aquilas off and you've got a bunch of guys in gasmasks that could stand in for loyal PDF troopers, Traitor Guard, Brood Brothers, Chaos Cultists... you name it. Useful to have a squad in the cupboard in case of special scenarios, too. Just a thought.
JohnnyHell wrote: No company is obligated to keep making things only a few people buy.
Way to argue against something no one is really saying. Most people are saying that they'd have liked some warning. No need to be unreasonable about it.
Dysartes wrote: Point of order - 4th ed Doctrine system meant you had customised Regiments, with arguably more difference in how they played than the 8th ed book does. Also, at least the Valhallan & Tallarn special characters were still around
The Doctrine System isn't really the same thing though. It allowed you to make custom armies that could be anything. Kyoto is talking about detailed regiment rules specific to the actual types - Valhallan, Mordian, Vostroyan, etc. - not a set of generic 'choose your own adventure' Doctrines.
I wasn’t being unreasonable. Way to argue against something I wasn’t saying. ;-)
Zenithfleet wrote: Put me in the 'mildly annoyed' camp. I've had the Gaunt's Ghosts box on the 'someday soon' purchase list for months now (to combine with some spare Last Chancers for a full squad). On a tight budget though, and I knew it would be ages before I got around to painting them, so there was always something more pressing.
If they'd had a 'last chance to buy', I'd have moved them to the top of the list and nabbed 'em.
Oh well. Off to eBay...
I can understand the frustration from this perspective. They did something very similar with the Specialist games. I don't mind GW retiring old products that they don't wish to keep in circulation. However, by having a 'last chance to buy' it does give the impression that they will at least try and inform customers and give them the last chance option to buy such miniatures before they are gone. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to put them in the "you have three months left before these are no longer made option". It at least gives people the chance to pick them up. Otherwise there is a risk you leave a bad taste in the mouth especially if it was your current project.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What's weird though is they just got very significant and detailed regiment rules in the Codex (which they never had before). So yes, there are new players suddenly looking for Vostroyans and Valhallans. Maybe they built their whole army in the last few months, I don't know.
When marines get Chapter rules it's not a big deal since a Blood Angel is just marine painted red. But is a Tallarn just a Cadian painted tan?
If GW comes out with a boxed set, or several sets, that can make all the regiments it might make sense but for now...
If GW had called their regiment rules 'Raiders' or 'Gunlines' or 'Mechanized Infantry' it would be fine but they called them Tallarn, Mordian and Steel Legion.
Left hand, meet right hand. I hope you talk more.
What's weird to me is even in the most recent codex (Imperial knights) mentions are made of several of the discontinued regiments. There's a mention in the Hawkshroud lore that states the Valhallans are answering their call to aid, and another from a knights pov where it moves in to cover a Vostroyan Force's retreat.
I don't think you'd conciously make references like that when you plan to squat a range. Most likely is they'll just go on made to order rotation again. I'd love to hope we're getting plastic regiments but not holding my breath. Now would be the best chance for it given the age of the Cadian and catachans sprues (and the fact that cadia no longer exists) and in game every imperial player runs a CP battalion, so if they plan to move guardsmen this is probably the best they could ever hope to sell. That said shelf space in stores is crowded as is, and even the vostroyans don't command as much attention as Primaris unit #527 so I'd consider it unlikely plastic kits are in the works.
That said, I would love to be proven wrong if you're listening GW. I could use more Valhallans and you've already proven you can do greatcoats in plastic with the Skitarii.
Ravajaxe wrote: So the title pretty much sums it up. All the old (and not so old) metal infantry regiments are OOP and "no longer available" on the GW website.
Even the Armageddon Steel legion (dating from 3rd edition) and Vostroyan (dating from middle of 4th edition, which is newer than current cadians).
These were still quite complete ranges, until now. No warning, no "Last Chance to Buy" operation.
So pretty sadface for me.
Of course. Instead of a good selection and variety for the Imperium, we get all SPHESS MUHREENZ, all the time. And judging from the recent 40k rules for the Termite, that policy doesn't look to be changed anytime soon.
I guess it just goes to show that trough perseverance, dedication, and lots of bitching, you can finally get something that really should have been in your codex from day one about 4 years later.
It still absolutely blows my mind that the codex that makes the vehicles for the entirety of the Imperium has the least amount of vehicles out of all the codexes.
Much like how the largest fighting force in the Imperium can only get two mediocre infantry ranges in plastic, or how an entire branch of the Imperium is just now getting plastic models in 2019, or any other number of things that happens when GW just can't get off their stupid space marine kick
H.B.M.C. wrote: How many kits would any one Regiment require? Infanry Squad, HW Squad and Command Squad?
That would be my thoughts on it, HBMC - and when it comes to the HW Squad, most of the design work (the weapons) is already done. GW just need to design the crew.
Hopefully new Infantry squads (and command squads?) would feature more special weapon options, though. Going by the Cadian kit, there would be room to include a melta & plasma set of arms, at the very least.
Much like how the largest fighting force in the Imperium can only get two mediocre infantry ranges in plastic, or how an entire branch of the Imperium is just now getting plastic models in 2019, or any other number of things that happens when GW just can't get off their stupid space marine kick
Well seeing profits they make not really stupid. Guess they prefer profits rather than variety in model lines
H.B.M.C. wrote: How many kits would any one Regiment require? Infanry Squad, HW Squad and Command Squad?
With the way they pack sprues now I would say they could do all 3 in one. Really you need 10 bodies (go with single bodies and legs for better poses and more sprue space), 10 las gun arms, 5 special weapon arms. Add 2 kneeling bodies (or make 2 of the 10 kneeling), and an officer body and you're done. Certainly no harder than the Empire Handgunners or Sword/spear guys.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's certainly possible, but I'd imagine that wherever they can find a way to remove sprue redundancies they would.
For instance, the heavy weapon sprue is completely independent and could be used with any regiment type. No need to sculpt new heavy weapons.
The sprue looks ropey when compared to the more solid looking standards of more modern plastics, it should really see an update in line with new guard.
I guess it just goes to show that trough perseverance, dedication, and lots of bitching, you can finally get something that really should have been in your codex from day one about 4 years later.
It still absolutely blows my mind that the codex that makes the vehicles for the entirety of the Imperium has the least amount of vehicles out of all the codexes.
Much like how the largest fighting force in the Imperium can only get two mediocre infantry ranges in plastic, or how an entire branch of the Imperium is just now getting plastic models in 2019, or any other number of things that happens when GW just can't get off their stupid space marine kick
Whats even worse is the development of the Primaris line when all these other things are dying on the vine. When every range has current plastic for all their infantry, then I'd understand Primaris. Right now though? Asinine to me, hell Chaos has at least 5 other types of marine that need kits if they just had to make more.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How many kits would any one Regiment require? Infanry Squad, HW Squad and Command Squad?
That would be my thoughts on it, HBMC - and when it comes to the HW Squad, most of the design work (the weapons) is already done. GW just need to design the crew.
Hopefully new Infantry squads (and command squads?) would feature more special weapon options, though. Going by the Cadian kit, there would be room to include a melta & plasma set of arms, at the very least.
It would be easier if GW just made an all infantry kit for each regiment that had the arms and crouching legs that could be used for heavy weapons along with all the stuff needed for Command squads in that one box, then make a single kit with just heavy weapons in it. This way you only need a single upgrade kit containing heavy weapons for all the regiments and each regiment would only need one box.
So all this talk got me to take down my 2nd edition codex and I got an answer for the Tallarn basis.
TL/DR they are Arabs from an Arab world, but Capt Wasshisname and his unit were stranded on another desert world, teamed up with local nomads, learned their ways and led them in a a guerilla war.
So yeah Lawrence of Arabia except Lawrence was an Arab dude and led a bunch of Mad Max tribesmen against psychic witches.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How many kits would any one Regiment require? Infanry Squad, HW Squad and Command Squad?
With some careful sprue design, I think you could get it down to a sprue that has two sections to make basic infantry and one section for the sergeant and special weapons, and another sprue that has one section for command squad bits and two sections foe heavy weapons.
So, an Infantry Squad has all three sections from sprue 1. a Command squad has an infantry section and the special weapons section from psrue 1 and the command section from sprue 2 and a heavy weapon box has one infantry section from sprue 1 and the two heavy sections from sprue 2.
If it's possible to fit enough heads on the sprue, you could cover Cadians, Praetorians and Mordians with one set of kits. Catachans would need replacement torsos, arms and heads, and Steel Legion, Valhallans and Tallarns would all need to be their own sprues. Although depending on how it's done, the sprue of heavy weapons and command section bits could be made sufficiently generic as to cover all the regiments.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: So all this talk got me to take down my 2nd edition codex and I got an answer for the Tallarn basis.
TL/DR they are Arabs from an Arab world, but Capt Wasshisname and his unit were stranded on another desert world, teamed up with local nomads, learned their ways and led them in a a guerilla war.
So yeah Lawrence of Arabia except Lawrence was an Arab dude and led a bunch of Mad Max tribesmen against psychic witches.
So yay, we're all correct!
Thanks for that snippet, it was great to find out a little back storey for the Tallarn. Nice little bit of history.
That's the backstory for the special character (who, along with Lord Solar Macharius in the Imperial Guard codex, and a couple of characters in the Space Wolf codex, were "historical", and not living in the "present" of the setting at the time). The backstory for the planet was that millennia after being devastated during the Heresy (Tallarn was a fertile agri-world before the Iron Warriors invaded), a huge Chaos artefact was uncovered. Eldar invaded to destroy it, the Imperial forces fought back - until the daemons started coming out, at which point the Eldar and Tallarn PDF allied against the daemonic incursion and sealed up or destroyed the artefact.
I don't know if anyone else sees it but those designs in the second image remind me a lot of the Skitarii kits for some reason, look at the shape and design of the armored chest piece.
