Hi everyone, so with the upcoming release of Kill Team in 8th Edition I must say I'm quite eager to play it, as I love my AdMech but have found it hard to have pleasant games at my LGS recently due to the poor balance of the army. I'm hoping Kill Team may lift my motivation up, and in fact I'm already painting a bunch of Skitarii with the Stygies VIII paint scheme that has become the official AdMech KT colour scheme.
I know it's still early to build a Tactica, but I had the chance to have a read at the KT rulebook and have a few ideas about how to build my AdMech KT. I'll update this post with more info from you guys in the long run, so has to have a reference post with the experience and thoughts of multiple players. So let's get started.
So to build a Kill Team in Matched Play, you can have a roster of maximum 20 entries, each model being an entry. Before a mission, you may pick in your roster the models that shall constitute your KT, with a limit of 100 pts, 3 models minimum and 20 maximum. It is so because as I've understand there can be missions where a certain kind of KT may not be usable at all due to the parameters of the mission. So you can adapt your KT to the mission, I think it's a nice idea and allow for way more freedom in list building. Also, if playing a Campaign, you may have models that are in Convalescence from a previous mission and so must be replaced by another.
Your KT must be led by a Leader (duh) and can include up to 3 Specialists, each having a specific skill tree as seen in the previews. The Leader has its own skill tree, too, so you'll always have a model with a skill. The nature of your models limit the type of speciality they can endorse, for example there is no models in the AdMech roster that can be a Medic, for example.
The available units in AdMech are:
Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard: 9 pts - 1 of each may have an Omnispex or Enhanced Data-tether, up to 3 of each type can be Gunners and have access to their Special Weapons
Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard Alpha, 10 pts - Limited to 1 per KT, can be your Leader
Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard Gunner, 10 pts - Limited to 3 per type (Ranger or Vanguard)
Sicarian Infiltrator/Ruststalker: 14 pts
Sicarian Infiltrator/Ruststaker Princeps: 15 pts - Limited to 1 per KT, can be your Leader
Their profiles are exactly the same as in 40k, and they have access to all the equipment we know, I'll detail those below, with the updated profile if different from 40k.
Spoiler:
Radium Carbine, 18" Assault 3 S3 AP0 D1, inflict 3D on a Wound roll of 6 (a big buff from the original game): 0 pts
Galvanic Rifle: 0 pts
Radium Pistol: 0 pts
Phosphor Blast Pistol, 12" Pistol 1 S5 AP-1 D1, attacks made with this weapon ignore the -1 to Hit from the target being Obscured: 0 pts
Arc Pistol: 12" Pistol 1 S6 AP-1 D1 (no more bonus against Vehicles obviously): 0 pts
Arc Rifle, 24" Rapid Fire 1 S6 AP-1 D1: 0 pts
Plasma Caliver, same Standard profile, Overcharge is S8 AP-4 D2, puts the bearer Out of Action (so, removed from play) on un unmodified roll of 1 to Hit: 3 pts
Transuranic Arquebus, 60" Heavy 1 S7 AP-2 Dd3, the bearer cannot shoot this weapon if he has moved during the Movement phase, this weapon ignore the -1 to Hit due to shooting at more than half the range, and inflict an additionnal Mortal Wound on a Wound roll of 6: 5 pts
Omnispex, at the start of the shooting phase, you can chose a friendly model within 3" that is not Shaken. That model does not suffer penalties to their Hit rolls due to their target being Obscured: 1 pt
Enhanced Data-Tether, you can re-roll failed Nerve tests for your KT while the bearer is on the battlefield and not Shaken: 3 or 5 pts, I'm not sure.
AdMech still have access to their Canticles of the Omnissiah every turn, with the same picking rules as we know. They are mostly the same, save from a few difference with some of them, which, sadly, I don't remember.
Their Tactics (so, Stratagems) are based from the Codex, with Imperator and Conqueror Doctrines costing 2CP each, boosting a single model with a +1 in his WS or BS, but +2 while within 6" of a model with an Enhanced Data-Tether. The other ones are Dunestrider, for 1 CP, which allows your model to roll 2 dice when advancing, picking the highest, and Gloria Mechanicus, for 1 CP, which allows you to reroll the Canticle in use.
First impressions:
Spoiler:
So far, my first impressions from reading the book are that Rangers are going to be our rank and file more than Vanguards. This is because of their longer range which allows them to shoot twice at 15" or less, and so without suffering the -1 due to long range. Vanguards need to be at 9" for shooting without a malus. The S4 and possible AP-1 is more reliable to wound than the Radium Carbine too. However, the Radium Carbine inflicts 3D in a Wound roll of 6, which is powerful because of the mechanics of the Trauma tests: when down to 0W, a model must see if it has suffered a mere Flesh Wound or is Out of Action. To do so, the opponent rolls a D6 and on a 4+ (there are different modifiers) the model is Out of Action. But if the weapon deals multiple damage, you roll this many dice and pick the highest, so you can roll 3D6 to put your target Out of Action, which is really powerful. So I'd say a rough ratio of 2 Rangers to 1 Vanguard would be a safe bet, for now.
Giving melee weapons or CC-type Specialist roles to your Skitarii Alphas may not be the best bet either, penalties to Hit even in CC are easy to get, so counting on a WS of 4+ to deal damage is less than optimal. Sicarians are much better fit for this role with their faster movement, better WS, number of attacks and number of Wounds. My take for now is to have a backline Ranger Alpha as Leader and an Infiltrator Zealot specialist in the frontline, to not risk losing my Leader against a much more CC-orientated opponent.
Concerning Sicarians I have the feeling that Ruststalkers will still be underwhelming, counting on 6s to Wound without any AP looks as hazardly as in regular 40k. They still have a load of attacks, and may be boosted with the correct Specialisations and Skills, but I'm more trusting the Infiltrators with Tasers as they have a better Strength, shooting weapons, exploding 6s to Hit and give -1 to Ld within 3" to enemies.
The special weapons for the Skitarii all look interesting, I'm glad the Arquebus is looking good and don't seem overpriced. It will be a real threat with it's range and power, and I intend to have mine backed by a guy with an Omnispex for ignoring cover. I wouldn't play too much though, as you limit your movement with one. The Sniper or Heavy specialists look tailor-made for this weapon. The plasma looks dangerous to use due to the short range, I have to play a few games to see for myself the viability. It needs constant buffs or rerolls to shoot at Overcharge without being certain to blow up, the Arquebus looks more trustworthy. The Arc Rifle looks like a decent weapon too, especially because it costs no points and has a good power. With the right Specialist traits I'm sure it could be powerful.
Are there any special abilities that allow the arquebus to move and fire? That would be very handy because as it sits about all it's good for is creating a no go zone. Smart opponents won't let important models within sight of iut
MrMoustaffa wrote: Are there any special abilities that allow the arquebus to move and fire? That would be very handy because as it sits about all it's good for is creating a no go zone. Smart opponents won't let important models within sight of iut
From what I remember, the Heavy specialist trait lvl 1 skill allows you to move and shoot with a Heavy weapon without penalty. However, the Arquebus has it written in its profile that it cannot be used after moving, so sadly I guess the weapon's rules override the specialist skill :/
I think it won't be that easy to fully hide models, and he certainly won't be able to hide his whole KT. With an Omnispex nearby the opponent won't even have the chance to be obscured from this model. But I have to see in games how it will turn out, I may be wrong.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Are there any special abilities that allow the arquebus to move and fire? That would be very handy because as it sits about all it's good for is creating a no go zone. Smart opponents won't let important models within sight of iut
It's not looking likely. It'll be an excellent space control weapon though - if you have tall terrain to deploy on / shimmy onto turn 1 and force your opponent to keep their Leader and Specialists out the way, you can really control space. It may even be worth taking two.
Looking forward to having a play around, need to pick up a box of Infiltrators for sure.
Ok those points costs look great, I was looking to expand my infiltrator squad to run a 8 man squad for my stygies army so this gives me an excuse to get an other box and paint them up to be my kill team with some rangers thrown in for special weapons.
Agamembar wrote: Ok those points costs look great, I was looking to expand my infiltrator squad to run a 8 man squad for my stygies army so this gives me an excuse to get an other box and paint them up to be my kill team with some rangers thrown in for special weapons.
Yeah, looking at the Ruststalker profiles I'm wondering if I'm not going to scrap mine to make more Infiltrators, seeing as they are already useless in 40k. Maybe there's a specialist trait that might help one but not really convinced.
Speaking of Infiltrators I wonder if the Taser goads are going to be nice, considering there's at least 2 ways to have a -1 to Hit: fighting across a scenery or having a Flesh Wound. Tesla is not good when not exploding its 6s. And the overall lack of good AP tends to encourage playing power swords. The stubbers are going to be able to shoot better too, with its 18" range.
Agamembar wrote: Ok those points costs look great, I was looking to expand my infiltrator squad to run a 8 man squad for my stygies army so this gives me an excuse to get an other box and paint them up to be my kill team with some rangers thrown in for special weapons.
Yeah, looking at the Ruststalker profiles I'm wondering if I'm not going to scrap mine to make more Infiltrators, seeing as they are already useless in 40k. Maybe there's a specialist trait that might help one but not really convinced.
Speaking of Infiltrators I wonder if the Taser goads are going to be nice, considering there's at least 2 ways to have a -1 to Hit: fighting across a scenery or having a Flesh Wound. Tesla is not good when not exploding its 6s. And the overall lack of good AP tends to encourage playing power swords. The stubbers are going to be able to shoot better too, with its 18" range.
Some very good points, taking them on board my plan then at the moment is to get a box and make 3 with the goads and blasters for my 40k army and the rest with the swords and the stubbers, I have a 6 man ranger team I built for shadow war which while very converted (the alpha has an arc maul and double arc pistols, melee and range weapons for everyone etc) I can still run fairly easily in kill team so they'll get painted to match them. I can then try both down the road, new strategems might see us having the ability to help the taser rule along like in standard 40k.
So is a Ranger/Vanguard Alpha still limited to the crappy weapons options we get in codex? Or can they for example have an arquebus or plasma caliver?
Because i mean the leader of my KT having bog standard weapons or crappy pistols and crappy melee weapons is just meh.
Otherwise, No way my leader is gonna be anything other than a sicarian princeps of some kind, unless i can give a data-tether to my alpha? Then i can at least keep him out of the way, but ideally an arquebuess user would have a tether, can gunners have tethers or omnispex or is that just the regulars?
I know most of this could be answered by assuming its the same as the codex, but if we’re bespoke building a squad then it might be different. Otherwise we’re back to taking tax plebs for omnispex and data-tether.
I mean we can already field 6 plasma calivers for 83pts including an alpha tax.
While Sicarians will still almost certainly be better for a melee model I think the Vanguard Alpha Zealot has a lot of potential and can catch people by surprise. On the charge even plague marines are being wounded on a 4+. This feels like a very strong kill team to get out of a single box.
Octovol wrote:So is a Ranger/Vanguard Alpha still limited to the crappy weapons options we get in codex? Or can they for example have an arquebus or plasma caliver?
Because i mean the leader of my KT having bog standard weapons or crappy pistols and crappy melee weapons is just meh.
Otherwise, No way my leader is gonna be anything other than a sicarian princeps of some kind, unless i can give a data-tether to my alpha? Then i can at least keep him out of the way, but ideally an arquebuess user would have a tether, can gunners have tethers or omnispex or is that just the regulars?
I know most of this could be answered by assuming its the same as the codex, but if we’re bespoke building a squad then it might be different. Otherwise we’re back to taking tax plebs for omnispex and data-tether.
I mean we can already field 6 plasma calivers for 83pts including an alpha tax.
It's exactly the same options as in the codex, the Alphas are stuck with classic weapons or pistols and CC weapon sadly. For the Omnispex and Data-tether only regulars can take one, no Gunners. But I don't think it's a bad thing, it would be better to have the choice of course, but I wouldn't place all my eggs in the same basket. Don't forget a Skitarius is still fairly easy to kill, and we don't know yet how fast-paced the game can be. I think we'll need regular Skitarii. A Ranger might be a better option for the Omnispex & Data-tether as he can sit back with his longer range.
Arachnofiend wrote:I was gonna leave my Forgebane Skitarii unbuilt before this game was announced... now I'm in the process of putting this together:
While Sicarians will still almost certainly be better for a melee model I think the Vanguard Alpha Zealot has a lot of potential and can catch people by surprise. On the charge even plague marines are being wounded on a 4+. This feels like a very strong kill team to get out of a single box.
I've thought about melee Alphas too, but I realised they're still not fit for CC at all. It's very easy to get -1 or more to Hit, and with a model who hits at 4+ with only two attacks I wouldn't even hope surviving more than one round in combat. You'd have to get the initiative and hit first.
I didn't build any list yet (going to do that tomorrow) but I plan on having an Infiltrator Princeps as Zealot, maybe another as Scout, and my leader shall be a Ranger Alpha, farther away from danger. Take into account the Morale phase, where losing your leader gets you additional maluses.
There's some synergy to be had by sticking a T.Arquebus Sniper specialist next to an Omnispex Comms specialist. Just with level 1 specialists you get a Sniper with +1 to hit, rerolls 1's, and ignores the penalties to shooting obscured targets. Put the Omnispex on a Ranger and he'll likely find some targets too, with that 30" range.
I wouldnt ever suggest focusing an alpha on melee, but for 1 extra point you get higher leadership, an extra attack and a free melee weapon. You dont have to take a pistol, you can keep your radium carbine or galvanic rifle.
A vanguard alpha might surprise someone though, in combat they essentially have str 6 with an arc maul thanks to the toughness debuff wounding just about anything on a 2 or 3. All for only 1 point.
There’s almost an argument for taking a ruststalker and infiltrator princeps and a vanguard or ranger alpha with an arc maul. There arent too many really tough targets like in a regular match, and given transonic blades are free and you can still pay the 1pt for a chord claw if you want on your princeps. Alot of stuff that we consider unusable in regular 40k seems to be free or vastly reduced cost in killteam. I wouldnt take a ruststalker, but a princeps for 1pt and free blades...it gives us options to worry people.
I’m not sure whether our gunline approach would work in killteam yet. Having a regular ranger with omnispex sat with an arquebus gunner is 1/4 of your points. Maybe thats worth it, we do the same with cawl and robots.
It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.
the_Grak wrote:There's some synergy to be had by sticking a T.Arquebus Sniper specialist next to an Omnispex Comms specialist. Just with level 1 specialists you get a Sniper with +1 to hit, rerolls 1's, and ignores the penalties to shooting obscured targets. Put the Omnispex on a Ranger and he'll likely find some targets too, with that 30" range.
Exactly what I'm planning ! Here's to hoping my sniper won't botch half his shots like in regular 40k now.
Arachnofiend wrote:It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.
This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.
Arachnofiend wrote: It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.
This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.
You don't have that choice in a Matched Play tournament setting where you're just bringing your best 100 point list though.
Arachnofiend wrote: It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.
This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.
You don't have that choice in a Matched Play tournament setting where you're just bringing your best 100 point list though.
Ah, I haven't read that chapter to be honest, I have no clue about the specificities. So in tournaments you bring ONE list and it has to be able to perform all kinds of missions ? And how do they make the skills work, everybody is lvl 1 ? Or you pay the points for a skilled specialist ?
Arachnofiend wrote: It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.
This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.
You don't have that choice in a Matched Play tournament setting where you're just bringing your best 100 point list though.
Ah, I haven't read that chapter to be honest, I have no clue about the specificities. So in tournaments you bring ONE list and it has to be able to perform all kinds of missions ? And how do they make the skills work, everybody is lvl 1 ? Or you pay the points for a skilled specialist ?
As far as we've seen, yes. The roster selection part appears to be for campaigns - for Matched play you have a 20 model, 100 point limit. Specialists max at level 1.
I feel like just due to the hostage situation mission and a few others an ideal list would have a mix of infiltrators, vanguard, and rangers. I'm considering 2 to 3 infiltrators with a mix of weapons, some vanguard packing plasma and regular weapons, and a few rangers to be the warlord, obligatory comms specialist, and if points allow one or two other models to sit in the back and hold objectives, make it harder to route, etc.
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down
Not true. If you incapacitate a foe 20 yards away, they recover the body and you get nothing, no intel, no spoils etc. If you’re close enough to touch them then you certainly could capture them before any of their friends managed to recover the body.
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down
Not true. If you incapacitate a foe 20 yards away, they recover the body and you get nothing, no intel, no spoils etc. If you’re close enough to touch them then you certainly could capture them before any of their friends managed to recover the body.
So a small group at my LGS is launching a campaign with heavy narrative and roleplay elements, we'll be playing that for 3 months so I'm eager to start ! Here's my idea of a 100 pts list, regardless of a specific mission. Didn't write my full roster yet but it'll turn around that:
Total 97 pts. I think I have a nice polyvalent force here, not much CC but with the AdMech I feel like you have to commit to a full CC list if you wish to play that way. Alphas are not reliable enough with their 4+ WS. Here I have 3 Galvanic rifles for ranged, 2 Radium carbines to discourage clutched troops, 2 Arc Rifles to deal with thougher targets as there's S6 and AP-1, and my Arquebus who'll be boosted beyond reason thanks to the Omnispex guy. Base, he already shoots at 3+ rerolling 1s to Hit, but the Comms trait allows him to give +1 to Hit to a friendly model within 2" or 3", and the Omnispex prevents his targets from being obscured. If they're in a nice position, their threat range will cover the whole board (as it is 30x24") and be almost certain to take down any target each round.
I'm surprised all of you are interested in infiltrators. Can you explain why?
After reading the rules and learning that pistols can't be fired after charging OR being charged, I'm having a hard time understanding the use of any pistols at all.
A princeps ruststalker as combat or zealot is a nasty amount of attacks for a decent price.
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm surprised all of you are interested in infiltrators. Can you explain why?
After reading the rules and learning that pistols can't be fired after charging OR being charged, I'm having a hard time understanding the use of any pistols at all.
A princeps ruststalker as combat or zealot is a nasty amount of attacks for a decent price.
Infiltrators are jack of all trades. They've got good pistols that are better than most normal weapons, decent CQC, multiple wounds, debuff LD, move faster, etc. etc. Whereas Rust Stalkers do one thing, fast melee. Yeah their base statline is identical other than an additional attack, but they lose a lot of flexibility to do that.
Simply put, an Infiltrator will almost always have a good role to fill in a list. Meanwhile a Ruststalker could be completely useless in some matchups, especially very vertical table setups. I mean just the fact that they have a gun alone means they can do more over the course of a game in the long run, especially the stub carbines which have a pretty good range when combined with their movement. I like that flexibility personally.
Also, Ruststalkers do not have any AP on their weapons, only a chance to deal a mortal wound on a 6+ to wound. Which means against a lot of enemies your wounds are just going to bounce off. And you don't have ways to have exploding number of hits and increased strength like taser lances have, or just straight up AP like the humble power sword has.
I'm still traumatised by the uselessness of Ruststalkers in 40k, and I don't believe they'll be any more useful here. Yes they do have a lot of attacks, but they're just SM-worthy hits most of the time, unless you're lucky on 6s, which is not my case, at least with the Ruststalkers. I like the Infiltrators because they have a better choice of weapons, I like the power swords setup for the AP. Tesla is nice but suffers the same problem as the Ruststalkers relying on 6s, but even worse as it can suffer the penalties to Hit even more. And I believe they'll FAQ the pistols someway, or as stated above, it's still a gun that I can use if I want to. Being at 9" will be easy seeing the size of the mat. Infiltrators also give -1 to Ld within 3" which is non-negligible.
Skitarii Vanguard (Leader) - 14
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether
5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Arc Rifle
100 flat. Any opinions? I suppose the Ruststalker could easily be an Infiltrator.
You have a nice firepower-based list here. However I see a few mistakes, the Vanguard Alpha can't equip Data-tether, only regular Skitarii can. Also one of your Rangers will have to be a Gunner to carry the Arc Rifle, so he will cost 10 pts.
Personally I don't see any advantage at having your plasma or Arc rifles carriers being Rangers, as the Vanguards cost the same and are radioactive for the -1 T if they get engaged. The only reason I see would be because you already have 2 Vanguard Gunners. I kept my Arquebus guy as a Ranger for fluff reasons and because I still use them like that in 40k, also because I already have two Vanguards with Arc rifles.
Glad to see the Omnispex + Sniper team is catching on, I'm eager to try it next week at my LGS.
One thing to note with ruststalkers in KT is that transonic blades are now free and there’s less of a reason to want that chord claw (which actually costs you more) than in 40k. So even though they still dont have any AP a ruststalker Zealot will have 4 str 6 attacks when it charges and 3 x str 5 in each subsequent round. There arent that many tough targets like there are in regular 40k, most things are T3-4 which a ruststalker wounds both on a 3.
Course an infiltrator zealot with a taser goad is already str 7 on charge with 3 attacks that you could doctrina to explode on 4s. You could always make either of them a combat specialist for a permanent +1 attack as well. Infiltrators are still a better bet, and the fact that they’re the same pts in KT is absurd.
One thing i notice no-one is accounting for is that as your fire teams and specialists level up, their points also go up. So if you’ve made your list for 97pts, youve not got a lot of wiggle room for levels ups. Unless everything youre playing is all lvl 1 matched play games. Which imo would be a terrible shame to waste all the goodies from lvl progression.
Skitarii Vanguard Alpha (Leader) - 15
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether
5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Galvanic Rifle
You forgot the Vanguard Alpha, he can't equip the data-tether, only a regular Vanguard/Ranger may do that. It's exactly like in normal 40k.
Octovol wrote:
One thing i notice no-one is accounting for is that as your fire teams and specialists level up, their points also go up. So if you’ve made your list for 97pts, youve not got a lot of wiggle room for levels ups. Unless everything youre playing is all lvl 1 matched play games. Which imo would be a terrible shame to waste all the goodies from lvl progression.
The group I am in is thinking about houseruling that progression doesn't cost any points. It's just harsh to make a lvl 4 Specialist cost 10+ more points, in the end you'll just play with 4 models as Skitarii seeing as your Arquebus sniper will cost 27 pts +- , while still having the same resilience as before. Paying more points because your team gains XP is not rewarding, it's a burden. It may not be a problem for "horde" players like Guards or Orks (and even then they'll still be fairly squishy) but in our case we already rarely go beyond 10 models.
I've never touched admech in regular 40k. Good point, thank you for the reminder. Was a bit of an error due to originally not listing him as an alpha, but was then also reminded a leader needs to be an alpha, etc.
That point increase for specialists is warranted. Pulling that out really tips the scale in favor of elite armies as now they're getting a huge step up and essentially playing with free models. A level 4 specialist for things like comms, leader, or sniper can really swing a game, they cost those points for a reason. Yeah it sucks you have to take less guys but that's why we have the option of switching up our kill teams between missions. It's there to not only give you a reason to consider taking new recruits over vets, but also to give a player who had a bad spell of luck with casualties a chance to catch back up as he'll be able to take more models than you to counteract the experience gap.
It's a clever fix to an issue that often popped up in shadow war, mainly that one player could have a bad game at the start and then never catch up as everyone else rocketed ahead with super elite teams and additional gear. By making veteran models cost more you ensure that no matter how bad you have a game go, you still have a chance to compete to some degree.
Gonna pick up a box of Sicarians to complement my Skitarii and I'll have a pretty well rounded Kill Team on my hands. Here's the list I'm thinking about running:
Got options to swap out the Vanguard Alpha's loadout for just a Radium Carbine or swap out the Ruststalker Princeps for a Ranger Gunner with Transuranic Arquebus, or I can drop the enhanced data tether on the Comms guy and replace the Ranger Alpha with a Ranger Gunner with Transuranic Arquebus. The enhanced data tether is nice for the +2 bonus to our Doctrina Imperative tactics and the nerve test rerolls but since we can get access to nerve test rerolls from our Canticle and hit bonuses from various places, I wouldn't say it's an auto include. Overall though, I think this is a pretty balanced list. While I think the Infiltrator is better than the Ruststalker, I think the Ruststalker Princeps is decent for KT. As a Zealot it'll be swinging 4 S6 attacks and 1 S5 Chordclaw attack on the charge and with the unique Ad Mech tactic that lets Ruststalkers add 1 to the wound roll for all their weapons, they'll have a better chance of getting those mortal wounds on a 5+ so at least this makes them a bit more viable as a tag team partner to the Infiltrator Princeps.
MrMoustaffa wrote: That point increase for specialists is warranted. Pulling that out really tips the scale in favor of elite armies as now they're getting a huge step up and essentially playing with free models. A level 4 specialist for things like comms, leader, or sniper can really swing a game, they cost those points for a reason. Yeah it sucks you have to take less guys but that's why we have the option of switching up our kill teams between missions. It's there to not only give you a reason to consider taking new recruits over vets, but also to give a player who had a bad spell of luck with casualties a chance to catch back up as he'll be able to take more models than you to counteract the experience gap.
It's a clever fix to an issue that often popped up in shadow war, mainly that one player could have a bad game at the start and then never catch up as everyone else rocketed ahead with super elite teams and additional gear. By making veteran models cost more you ensure that no matter how bad you have a game go, you still have a chance to compete to some degree.
As an additional point, the book actually recommends that when your narrative campaign reaches a point where everyone is packing a ton of leveled up models that you increase the points cost of a kill team to accommodate them. So it isn't actually an issue at all.
MrMoustaffa wrote: That point increase for specialists is warranted. Pulling that out really tips the scale in favor of elite armies as now they're getting a huge step up and essentially playing with free models. A level 4 specialist for things like comms, leader, or sniper can really swing a game, they cost those points for a reason. Yeah it sucks you have to take less guys but that's why we have the option of switching up our kill teams between missions. It's there to not only give you a reason to consider taking new recruits over vets, but also to give a player who had a bad spell of luck with casualties a chance to catch back up as he'll be able to take more models than you to counteract the experience gap.
It's a clever fix to an issue that often popped up in shadow war, mainly that one player could have a bad game at the start and then never catch up as everyone else rocketed ahead with super elite teams and additional gear. By making veteran models cost more you ensure that no matter how bad you have a game go, you still have a chance to compete to some degree.
As an additional point, the book actually recommends that when your narrative campaign reaches a point where everyone is packing a ton of leveled up models that you increase the points cost of a kill team to accommodate them. So it isn't actually an issue at all.
In addition to that, you're supposed to build your list for each game out of a pool, so while your pool is relatively set at a fixed twenty, your game to game team is more flexible for build.
Hey folks, this is what I was thinking for a starting kill team. Sniper on a plasma caliver seemed pretty solid seeing as how punishing it is to roll a 1 now. I think I have a decent mix of threat ranges to play the table, but wasn't quite sure whether to take a second arc rifle or plasma caliver. I guess if anything I just fire the non Sniper on normal.
Anyone find any fun interactions beyond the omnispex + sniper? Curious if there's any other clutch unit combos worth including in the command roster.
Just picked up my starter set today and bought the sprues off a buddy who did the same, intend to kitbash the GSC with the Admech for a nice little custom force.
Hey folks, this is what I was thinking for a starting kill team. Sniper on a plasma caliver seemed pretty solid seeing as how punishing it is to roll a 1 now. I think I have a decent mix of threat ranges to play the table, but wasn't quite sure whether to take a second arc rifle or plasma caliver. I guess if anything I just fire the non Sniper on normal.
Looks solid to me ! You could use the Omnispex as a Comms specialist in your roster, he could buff your non-specialist plasma by giving him +1 to Hit to prevent risky overcharges.
From what I can see, plasma is a riskier version of the arquebus, although it may be more rewarding. It's shorter range needs your guy to be really close, risk him blowing up to deal 2D (but wound on 2+ MEQ) whereas the arquebus deals 2D on average with a chance of mortal wounds. The plasma is cheaper and has 1 more shot though. With the Heavy specialist stratagem you can have it shoot 3 times, if you really want to kill something.
I finally played two quick games today, but on a 24x24" terrain, so a little shorter. I played this both games:
I faced Harlequins so I was really afraid, but as soon as his guys came close I managed to savagely whittle them down with radium and flechette blasters. I also used the fight first stratagem to save my Infiltrator and he managed to kill the enemy Zealot with his taser goad (S6 really hurts Eldars). I had 8 guys and he had 6, we were going to play the mission where you score points by making the enemy fail morale tests but settled for a kill points. Had we sticked to the morale mission I had won by my turn two, as I killed 3 of his dudes and hurt severely the others.
Game two was against Tau, it was 3 Pathfinders with rail guns, a Grav-Drone, another spotter Drone or something like that, a Fire Warrior and two Stealth suits. Mission was capturing enemies in CC (ah, we were talking about that one) so no luck for my opponent who deployed most of his team in a cluster at the 1st floor of a ruin, preventing me from charging there as long as I hadn't killed one guy or two. We didn't finish the game because store was closing, but I had killed his 3 Pathfinders, was locking his 2 Stealth suits in CC with my Zealot and coming from the back with another Infiltrator, while having only two casualties and one wounded, so it was going nice for me.
From these games I noticed that having little AP mattered little for us, as we have the means to shoot A LOT. Seriously, even with a 4++, rolling 3 saves for a 1W guy is tough. It allows us to quickly wound or dispatch enemy models to reduce their efficacy and force morale checks. We should still keep an AP gun like the arquebus, plasma or even the arc rifle in our roster when facing MEQ though.
Infiltrators are GOOD from what I've seen here, they ended up shooting quite more than I expected and forced saves, while being absolutely murderous in CC. Tasers are formidable against E3 and power swords on the Zealot Princeps made me 4 S5 attacks on the charge on the 2 suits. Also, they are quite fast and with the Dunestrider stratagem you can hide them easier by sprinting. Also, the -1 Ld aura is in my opinion invaluable to mitigate their morale tests, when you have an Infiltrator near their highest Ld model. I didn't tried them, but I don't believe Ruststalkers can be that good. Yes they deal MWs, but if it's invulnerable saves your problem, the taser goad is just as good. Ruststalkers should be cheaper.
Shroudpsalm is an incredible protection from turn 1 shots, giving your opponent -2 to Hit when obscured. I used it in the second game to protect my Infiltrators as they moved.
That's a good point! Though I do have a question on how the overcharge rule works. I had thought unmodified roll of 1 meant a natural one on the die roll? Otherwise you might overcharge if you had enough penalties.
How did you find the Arquebus? Not being able to move and shoot makes it seem hard to play.
Oh an aside, I think Plasma Caliver's being Assault 2 is relevant. Just having the option to put out more shots a touch farther away than some of our rapid fire range is kinda interesting.
Looks solid to me ! You could use the Omnispex as a Comms specialist in your roster, he could buff your non-specialist plasma by giving him +1 to Hit to prevent risky overcharges.
+1 to hit doesn't prevent overcharge kill, as in KT plasma explodes on unmodified 1. Thus preroll of 1 is only way.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote:That's a good point! Though I do have a question on how the overcharge rule works. I had thought unmodified roll of 1 meant a natural one on the die roll? Otherwise you might overcharge if you had enough penalties.
How did you find the Arquebus? Not being able to move and shoot makes it seem hard to play.
Oh an aside, I think Plasma Caliver's being Assault 2 is relevant. Just having the option to put out more shots a touch farther away than some of our rapid fire range is kinda interesting.
I find arquebus incredibly useful. Just use them like real sniper rifle. To cover your ground, especially if you have to close in with units like infiltrators. Or does heavy lifting by taking units quite frequently and effectively. most of the times its one shot one kill.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: That's a good point! Though I do have a question on how the overcharge rule works. I had thought unmodified roll of 1 meant a natural one on the die roll? Otherwise you might overcharge if you had enough penalties.
How did you find the Arquebus? Not being able to move and shoot makes it seem hard to play.
Oh an aside, I think Plasma Caliver's being Assault 2 is relevant. Just having the option to put out more shots a touch farther away than some of our rapid fire range is kinda interesting.
I don't have the KT book but I believe it's like in 40k where it's not an unmodified roll of 1 ? If I'm wrong all right, then the plasma is more attractive than I thought, but if not you may explode on a 1, 2 or 3 if you have say a -2 to hit for exemple. Can someone confirm if the wording is the same ?
I loved the arquebus, shooting at 2+, rerolling 1s, ignoring obsured. It dealt 2D most of the time and almost always killed or wounded. I wouldn't play two of them but this one is solid, being prepared every turn means you can quickly dismiss a threat if you have initiative.
Worst part of omnispex is that you can't have it on trans are, as it grants to other model, so you kinda have to put it on normal ranger and put him nearby your sniper.
Spera wrote: I can confirm that it is only on natural 1.
Worst part of omnispex is that you can't have it on trans are, as it grants to other model, so you kinda have to put it on normal ranger and put him nearby your sniper.
Oh thanks, yes plasma is greatly buffed in KT I see.
It's not bad you know, having a model close to your arquebus means you'll pass morale tests easier, and the point is to make the Omnispex guy a Comms specialist to give him a free +1 to Hit every turn, leaving you your +1 to Hit stratagem for another dude.
Is there any point to giving a Leader Vanguard/Ranger Alpha a melee weapon/pistol over their regular weapons? My meta has plenty of melee which is why I don't think it's a terrible idea in my scenario plus they're free with the exception of the Taser Goad. I'm thinking an Arc Maul and a Phosphor Blast Pistol since it'll often be wounding on 3+ and ignores obscured.
The idea is I'd have the melee option more for defending myself when I inevitably get into a fight when I get charged rather than seeking out a fight. I play against Harlequins and Tyranids so it won't be difficult for them to close the distance quickly if they really wanted. I prefer a Vanguard Alpha for rad saturation personally.
Mr. Funktastic wrote: The idea is I'd have the melee option more for defending myself when I inevitably get into a fight when I get charged rather than seeking out a fight. I play against Harlequins and Tyranids so it won't be difficult for them to close the distance quickly if they really wanted. I prefer a Vanguard Alpha for rad saturation personally.
Then you are planing for failure than for wining. Don't get me wrong, getting some countermeasures isn't bad. but your main objective should be wining. There is no reason outside of camping and open play to do melee leader, as their lvl1 trait don't support melee in any way, and doing into melee is far more dangerous of them. Play to your strenghts. Its still better for your leader to provide range support than to be equipped with melee. In oil team you rarely have enough abilities to respond to enemy actions to make this approach work. So you must instead try to dictate game tempo and be proactive.
Very fair points, plus I wouldn't expect him to do much in melee since they still hit on 4+ for some reason and at the very least rad saturation helps so he'll wound on 4+/3+ most of the time when he's forced to fight. In any case I'll have an Infiltrator Princeps and Ruststalker Princeps to meet melee threats anyway, wouldn't be a bad idea for my Vanguard Alpha to provide mid range support with his radium carbine. Thanks for the feedback!
Yes I thought about keeping my taser Alpha for the rule of cool but realistically it would be a waste, you'll want to keep your leader as a vanilla Ranger or Alpha and place him hidden or obscured most of the time for your CPs and the Ld if you don't have another Ld 7 on the table.
Speaking of Ld, I lost yesterday against a team of 6 Intercessors because of Morale. Both our teams were at half strength by turn 4 (the last) but mine got demoralised (really easy when you know the average of 2d6 is 7) and so even though I had 3 VP and my opponent had none, the team who is not demoralised wins by the rules of the mission. This highlighted two things for me: Marines are almost impossible to break with Morale, and Skitarii have a flimsy Ld. When you start accumulating the +1 for each teammate who is either injured or shaken it's really easy to get shaken and so start losing the game. I believe we really need to either have a data-tether (but in my opinion it's really costly, and this guy will get targeted fast) or clump our guys together to have -1 on our Morale tests. At the same time it could be interesting to aim at wounding the most models possible to start giving your opponent tests for a Demoralised team early in the game. When your team is Demoralised you either aim at doing the same to the other team to get even (knowing your whole squad gets and additional -1 to Hit) or you just wipe them out.
Also, beware of Intercessors with grenade launchers, the same Marine killed me one Skitarii a turn with a Krak grenade from across the map ! Just beautiful in its own way.
The data-tether and Omnispec both seem like a tax to me. On the bright side you at least get a tactics bonus from having the data-tether around sometimes. Pairing off also seems like a wise idea. I'll probably go with the list I posted previously to aggressively push the table. The play space seems small enough that you can get ranges.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: The data-tether and Omnispec both seem like a tax to me. On the bright side you at least get a tactics bonus from having the data-tether around sometimes. Pairing off also seems like a wise idea. I'll probably go with the list I posted previously to aggressively push the table. The play space seems small enough that you can get ranges.
A I used omnispex for trans arq, and since it gets stratagem for 1 cp to et basically that i can see myself without it. But data there is almost mandatory.
The Transuranic Arquebus tactic is 2 CP while the Omnispex is 1 pt. We have plenty of good tactics and I'd rather have a Comms Ranger with an Omnispex acting as spotter than spend 2 CP for a 1 pt wargear's job. The data tether is good but pricey, since we have a canticle that does also helps reroll nerve tests if you can't make 5 pts on your list for a data tether I wouldn't stress too much but it's definitely a good investment if you can swing the points for it.
Especially with the somewhat hefty points cost of Admech, I find the Tether to be very, very helpful. Almost as necessary as the comms/omnispex. Super helpful as you start getting deeper into combat.
Lost today against another SM list, mostly because of morale once again. I got 4 wounded very quickly and at turn two I lost the Demoralised test (don't know the name in English) and so my team had a whole -1 to hit forever, plus having half the team shaken every turn because of -4 on the morale test. Seriously when my team gets demoralised I'd rather abandon the game as it's just impossible to do anything, hitting on 6s because of distance, cover, morale and wounds and having half the team not moving is tough.
I played the same list as the last times, to play faster (we didn't have much time) so no I didn't try it, I'll proxy it next game to see, but honestly some models could only be saved on a 1 or 2 so even with rerolls they're doomed.
I knew i wasnt making it up! In our codex an alpha can take a melee weapon without replacing their galvanic rifle/radium carbine. In KT you have to replace both.
Octovol wrote: I knew i wasnt making it up! In our codex an alpha can take a melee weapon without replacing their galvanic rifle/radium carbine. In KT you have to replace both.
Yes and this is sad, I would give an Arc Maul or Power Sword to my Alphas any day if we could. And they would look glorious.
I’m going to be competing in throne of skulls so KT is on hold for me. Especially seeing as i now have to fully paint 1000pts of my army because my local group doesnt care how well painted stuff is but WW does lol
Support Team Skitarii Ranger Gunner [10]: Arc Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
Assault Team's job is to choke the enemy and give your Calivers time to do their work. I think the Infiltrator should be the Leader and the Vanguard Alpha the Zealot. The former is already really good at melee, and his -1 Ld aura combined with Tyrant is very strong because it forces the opponent to either spend CP or SP to prevent getting shaken--that or to cluster up, which pretty much means you auto lose. Zealot over Combat because the purpose of the Assault Team is to support the shooting; this army is not going to win games on its fighting.
Plasma Teams have one Caliver and one Omnispex. There is a specialist in each team in either role. The Caliver takes priority; the other Vanguard is sacrificial if necessary. I didn't take data-tether because it's really expensive. I would much rather take a second Plasma Caliver.
Support Team is supposed to shoot any targets of opportunity. Rapid Fire is surprisingly good in this game, and the Galvanic Rifles can really reach out and touch people.
Support Team Skitarii Ranger Gunner [10]: Arc Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
Assault Team's job is to choke the enemy and give your Calivers time to do their work. I think the Infiltrator should be the Leader and the Vanguard Alpha the Zealot. The former is already really good at melee, and his -1 Ld aura combined with Tyrant is very strong because it forces the opponent to either spend CP or SP to prevent getting shaken--that or to cluster up, which pretty much means you auto lose. Zealot over Combat because the purpose of the Assault Team is to support the shooting; this army is not going to win games on its fighting.
Plasma Teams have one Caliver and one Omnispex. There is a specialist in each team in either role. The Caliver takes priority; the other Vanguard is sacrificial if necessary. I didn't take data-tether because it's really expensive. I would much rather take a second Plasma Caliver.
Support Team is supposed to shoot any targets of opportunity. Rapid Fire is surprisingly good in this game, and the Galvanic Rifles can really reach out and touch people.
Support Team Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
If you prefer the Ruststalker over the Infiltrator.
Let us know how your lists goes, I'm curious about an Alpha in CC. I think the regular weapons are more worth it but of course I could be wrong, there's dozens of different situations in KT.
Morkphoiz wrote:Going to start with this:
Ranger Alpha - Galv. Rifle, Leader 10pt
Infiltrator Princeps - P.Sword, Carbine,
Zealot/Combat 15pt
Ranger Gunner - TUA, Sniper 15pt
Ranger - Galv. Rifle, Omnispex, Comms 9pt
Vanguard - RadCarbine, Data Tether 14pt
Vanguard Gunner - Arcrifle 10pt
Vanguard Gunner - Plasma 13pt
Ranger Gunner - Plasma 13pt
99Pts.
Anyone see any problems or rules violations?
Only that the Omnispex costs 1 pt, so your Comms Ranger would cost 10, but you're still at 100 with that.
I'm really not sold on the plasma calivers, I think they're overkill, except for maybe facing Lictors or something along these lines. May be nice against TS but beware of Overcharge.
The Arc Rifles as said earlier I believe are really nice, they're cheap and pack a punch. I know it's anecdotal but first time I used them yesterday and it killed a Black Shield on its first shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I've built three pre-set teams yesterday, only tested one so far but maybe it can give you guys some ideas or suggestions. It's from a roster I've written for an upcoming campaign so it explains why some choices may look limited.
Infiltrators / CC list:
Spoiler:
- Ranger Alpha, leader (so as to stay hidden in some missions) 10p
- Infiltrator Princeps, Sword & Stubber, Zealot 15p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, Scout (so as to use his speed for objectives or closing in faster) 15p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, Combat 15p
- Infiltrator, Sword & Stubber, 14p
- Infiltrator, Sword & Stubber, 14p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, 15p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, 15p
98 pts. It's a mixed list, with both AP and high S, that I wrote for testing someday. I think it could be optimised into a better anti-MEQ list by going full Sword & Stubber, and replacing the Alpha by a Princeps. I would be more like:
99 pts. We could replace the Scout by a Veteran maybe ? It makes for a short-ranged (18") but fast and strong list. Remember there is a Tactic in the new cards for 1 CP that gives +1 to charge distance for all models in this turn. For dealing with E3 let's use tasers:
91 pts. We could arrange it by dropping 1 point somewhere by taking a Sword & Blaster to fit an Alpha Vanguard instead as a leader, that would make us 100 pts sharp. Maybe Veteran instead of Zealot could be better since we don't really need S7 on the charge and the Zealot lvl 1 Tactic is redundant.
98 pts. I played this against Deathwatch yesterday in a Assassinate mission (he had to kill my Leader to win) and it was terribly effective. The Arc Rifles are powerful and basically free, the Infiltrators give you CC presence and force them to save on 6s, and you know why we love the Sniper.
99 pts. This list could use some adjustements, I believe we can trade the regular Vanguard for another Arc Rifle, that gives us 3 guns that wound on 2s, plus the 3 Infiltrators that wound on 2s too. I'll have to test this.
Oh, fun fact, I won a Take Prisoners mission against Deathwatch a few days ago by popping Litany of the Electromancer on the enemy leader. Don't underestimate this canticle, it's hard to pull off but when you're getting bogged in CC if you're lucky it might clean things up, mortal wounds are really important and this canticle is far more impactful in KT than regular 40k I think.
Support Team Skitarii Ranger Gunner [10]: Arc Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
Assault Team's job is to choke the enemy and give your Calivers time to do their work. I think the Infiltrator should be the Leader and the Vanguard Alpha the Zealot. The former is already really good at melee, and his -1 Ld aura combined with Tyrant is very strong because it forces the opponent to either spend CP or SP to prevent getting shaken--that or to cluster up, which pretty much means you auto lose. Zealot over Combat because the purpose of the Assault Team is to support the shooting; this army is not going to win games on its fighting.
Plasma Teams have one Caliver and one Omnispex. There is a specialist in each team in either role. The Caliver takes priority; the other Vanguard is sacrificial if necessary. I didn't take data-tether because it's really expensive. I would much rather take a second Plasma Caliver.
Support Team is supposed to shoot any targets of opportunity. Rapid Fire is surprisingly good in this game, and the Galvanic Rifles can really reach out and touch people.
Support Team Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
If you prefer the Ruststalker over the Infiltrator.
One of those omnispex Vanguards needs to be changed to a ranger. Only one Ranger and one Vanguard can. Have an omnispex or data tether. Which kinda sucks because if you want to take the data tether you only get one omnispex :(
Support Team Skitarii Ranger Gunner [10]: Arc Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
Assault Team's job is to choke the enemy and give your Calivers time to do their work. I think the Infiltrator should be the Leader and the Vanguard Alpha the Zealot. The former is already really good at melee, and his -1 Ld aura combined with Tyrant is very strong because it forces the opponent to either spend CP or SP to prevent getting shaken--that or to cluster up, which pretty much means you auto lose. Zealot over Combat because the purpose of the Assault Team is to support the shooting; this army is not going to win games on its fighting.
Plasma Teams have one Caliver and one Omnispex. There is a specialist in each team in either role. The Caliver takes priority; the other Vanguard is sacrificial if necessary. I didn't take data-tether because it's really expensive. I would much rather take a second Plasma Caliver.
Support Team is supposed to shoot any targets of opportunity. Rapid Fire is surprisingly good in this game, and the Galvanic Rifles can really reach out and touch people.
Support Team Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
If you prefer the Ruststalker over the Infiltrator.
Let us know how your lists goes, I'm curious about an Alpha in CC. I think the regular weapons are more worth it but of course I could be wrong, there's dozens of different situations in KT.
Morkphoiz wrote:Going to start with this:
Ranger Alpha - Galv. Rifle, Leader 10pt
Infiltrator Princeps - P.Sword, Carbine,
Zealot/Combat 15pt
Ranger Gunner - TUA, Sniper 15pt
Ranger - Galv. Rifle, Omnispex, Comms 9pt
Vanguard - RadCarbine, Data Tether 14pt
Vanguard Gunner - Arcrifle 10pt
Vanguard Gunner - Plasma 13pt
Ranger Gunner - Plasma 13pt
99Pts.
Anyone see any problems or rules violations?
Only that the Omnispex costs 1 pt, so your Comms Ranger would cost 10, but you're still at 100 with that.
I'm really not sold on the plasma calivers, I think they're overkill, except for maybe facing Lictors or something along these lines. May be nice against TS but beware of Overcharge.
The Arc Rifles as said earlier I believe are really nice, they're cheap and pack a punch. I know it's anecdotal but first time I used them yesterday and it killed a Black Shield on its first shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I've built three pre-set teams yesterday, only tested one so far but maybe it can give you guys some ideas or suggestions. It's from a roster I've written for an upcoming campaign so it explains why some choices may look limited.
Infiltrators / CC list:
Spoiler:
- Ranger Alpha, leader (so as to stay hidden in some missions) 10p
- Infiltrator Princeps, Sword & Stubber, Zealot 15p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, Scout (so as to use his speed for objectives or closing in faster) 15p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, Combat 15p
- Infiltrator, Sword & Stubber, 14p
- Infiltrator, Sword & Stubber, 14p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, 15p
- Infiltrator, Taser & Blaster, 15p
98 pts. It's a mixed list, with both AP and high S, that I wrote for testing someday. I think it could be optimised into a better anti-MEQ list by going full Sword & Stubber, and replacing the Alpha by a Princeps. I would be more like:
99 pts. We could replace the Scout by a Veteran maybe ? It makes for a short-ranged (18") but fast and strong list. Remember there is a Tactic in the new cards for 1 CP that gives +1 to charge distance for all models in this turn. For dealing with E3 let's use tasers:
91 pts. We could arrange it by dropping 1 point somewhere by taking a Sword & Blaster to fit an Alpha Vanguard instead as a leader, that would make us 100 pts sharp. Maybe Veteran instead of Zealot could be better since we don't really need S7 on the charge and the Zealot lvl 1 Tactic is redundant.
98 pts. I played this against Deathwatch yesterday in a Assassinate mission (he had to kill my Leader to win) and it was terribly effective. The Arc Rifles are powerful and basically free, the Infiltrators give you CC presence and force them to save on 6s, and you know why we love the Sniper.
99 pts. This list could use some adjustements, I believe we can trade the regular Vanguard for another Arc Rifle, that gives us 3 guns that wound on 2s, plus the 3 Infiltrators that wound on 2s too. I'll have to test this.
Oh, fun fact, I won a Take Prisoners mission against Deathwatch a few days ago by popping Litany of the Electromancer on the enemy leader. Don't underestimate this canticle, it's hard to pull off but when you're getting bogged in CC if you're lucky it might clean things up, mortal wounds are really important and this canticle is far more impactful in KT than regular 40k I think.
Oh, you're right i missed that one point.
I kinda agree about the calivers and i wanted to put more arc rifles in but switching the 2 calivers for arc rifles would leave me with quite a lot of unused points. Not enough for another Body tho.
I think Calivers are much more worthwhile than Arquebuses. They are overkill, sure. But in a format where you alternate between players, a reliable way to delete your opponent's models before they can be used is huge. It's also why I was thinking of the Infiltrator as my Leader. Allowing your models to shoot or fight out of turn is important. A friend of mine did point out concerns about the Infiltrator not being able to level up though. So maybe the second list is better after all. Throwaway Ruststalker Combat with a Vanguard Alpha Leader.
Taking a balanced approach to Ad Mech, on paper at least they seem to do both melee and shooting well. I'll likely move both the Infiltrator and Ruststalker Princeps forward in the scouting phase while the rest of my army provides fire support. Considering giving my Vanguard Alpha Leader an Arc Maul and Phosphor Blast Pistol in place of his Radium Carbine since my guys are likely to get charged often in my meta but I can see an argument for either option. Any thoughts on this or criticism is appreciated.
What's a good build from just the starter set of Skitarii?
I'm thinking 50/50 mix of Rangers and Vanguard. Rangers are pretty much stock with an Arquebus and a Comms specialist and they hang back while the Vanguard take an Arc Rifle and a Plasma and take up forward positions. Am I on the right track? Would this be a reasonably fun build?
Rolling 2 dice on the injury roll greatly improves the chances of taking someone out of action. That said, maybe we're fine with just flesh wounding people.
Suzuteo wrote:A friend of mine did point out concerns about the Infiltrator not being able to level up though. So maybe the second list is better after all. Throwaway Ruststalker Combat with a Vanguard Alpha Leader.
What do you mean not able to level up ?
Mr. Funktastic wrote:Having a match against Tau tomorrow, good time as any to share my list
++ Kill Team List (Adeptus Mechanicus) [100pts] ++
Taking a balanced approach to Ad Mech, on paper at least they seem to do both melee and shooting well. I'll likely move both the Infiltrator and Ruststalker Princeps forward in the scouting phase while the rest of my army provides fire support. Considering giving my Vanguard Alpha Leader an Arc Maul and Phosphor Blast Pistol in place of his Radium Carbine since my guys are likely to get charged often in my meta but I can see an argument for either option. Any thoughts on this or criticism is appreciated.
Let us know how your list went, I'm curious as to the Ruststalker's performance. Also be aware of charging from hidden positions as they can still share Overwatch like in regular 40k, or sacrifice a goon to eat all the Overwatch for your Sicarians to charge afterwards.
Weazel wrote:What's a good build from just the starter set of Skitarii?
I'm thinking 50/50 mix of Rangers and Vanguard. Rangers are pretty much stock with an Arquebus and a Comms specialist and they hang back while the Vanguard take an Arc Rifle and a Plasma and take up forward positions. Am I on the right track? Would this be a reasonably fun build?
My take is to use the Vanguards either with their basic weapons, which are already great (3D on 6s to Wound makes for 3 Trauma tests which is great), or as gunner for short ranged weapons, as they're more likely to get charged, having the -1T aura can be a plus. The Arc Rifles are very good, and the Caliver is basically a short-ranged russian roulette Arquebus so it's not bad at all. I think your list is fine.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Rolling 2 dice on the injury roll greatly improves the chances of taking someone out of action. That said, maybe we're fine with just flesh wounding people.
The Arquebus does 2D on average, from farther away, with likely more precision, and while being able to deal a mortal wound. The thing plasma has is more shots and a better AP, a better price and is more mobile. Honestly I think they're worth each other, I just didn't try the plasma yet. If I do I won't pick an Arquebus and make the Caliver a Sniper to reroll his 1s to Hit.
Suzuteo wrote:A friend of mine did point out concerns about the Infiltrator not being able to level up though. So maybe the second list is better after all. Throwaway Ruststalker Combat with a Vanguard Alpha Leader.
What do you mean not able to level up ?
Ah, my friend probably misunderstood the Fire Team rules. Scratch that.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Rolling 2 dice on the injury roll greatly improves the chances of taking someone out of action. That said, maybe we're fine with just flesh wounding people.
The Arquebus does 2D on average, from farther away, with likely more precision, and while being able to deal a mortal wound. The thing plasma has is more shots and a better AP, a better price and is more mobile. Honestly I think they're worth each other, I just didn't try the plasma yet. If I do I won't pick an Arquebus and make the Caliver a Sniper to reroll his 1s to Hit.
Calivers have an extra shot and the option to go to S8, which threatens T4, which is perhaps the magic number in Kill Team. A Mortal Wound once every six shots (which you shoot one per turn) is not comparable.
For the most part though, your shooting is going to be using the normal profile. Deleting weaker specialists and normal units is more important than trying to gun down their leader because of how punishing morale rules are.
The wording on omnispex leans me towards thinking you can only activate one per turn. Its one of the FAQ questions I sent in.
I can't imagine not running a vanguard alpha or even a vanguard dork up the field with my two princepts no matter what list I run. Crashing in with the alpha and his debuff or letting then enemy assault the alpha and following up with your princepts is a tight move. Im more fond of arquebuses or in general anything that want kill my guys.
Newbie tech for those building from the starter. Your first three gunners should always be vanguard. Identical to rangers with the special weapons except they get that debuff, literally no reason to load up on ranger gunners first.
Game against Tau went well, we played sweep and clear and despite not rolling well on either my injury or armor saves at all, I managed to break him by the end of round 2 by taking 2 of his models out of action and flesh wounding 5 of them.. Even hitting on mostly 5's and 6's Tau can put out an obscene amount of shots, Shroudpsalm is really powerful against them. Infiltrator Princeps unfortunately went down early but I managed to take out his Fire Warrior and Support Turret turn 1 with my Arquebus. Ruststalker did well and engaged a drone and Pathfinder. Only managed to flesh wound both of them though but I was happy with his performance.
Played against Necrons today with the same list, pulled a victory in a Disrupt Supply Lines mission as defender, came down to a round 5 and my guys holding 2 objectives while contesting the 3rd. Infiltrator died early again and the Ruststalker killed an Immortal then went down promptly afterward, he showed out pretty impressive though. Rolled slightly better in my injury rolls this time around but my opponent was making his armor saves like a demon. My Vanguard Alpha even managed to take down an Immortal in melee! Overall good game, Gauss Blasters are scary but Shroudpsalm pulled through again. Don't be afraid to charge your Vanguard if it means tying up a scary shooting unit for a round!
Also had a game against Space Marines though and it was brutal to say the least. Didn't manage to do much to him with my shooting at all and bad rolls and poor positioning led to 3 of my models out of action by turn 2, including my Ruststalker. My Infiltrator actually managed to make it into combat but didn't accomplish much with his Taser Goad even with Conquerer Doctrina Imperative. T4 and 3+ save can't be underestimated especially since my list overall averages about AP -1. Also T3 hurts a lot considering Bolters are S4 although to be fair I couldn't make my armro saves to save my life that game. A Power Sword is definitely the better option against power armor but against factions with 4+ or worse saves I like the Taser Goad a bit more. I might make an Infiltrator with a Power Sword to either replace my Infiltrator Princeps or complement both my Princeps and replace my Arquebus and see how that goes. Space Marines are definitely a challenging matchup for Ad Mech for sure despite our impressive shooting, our low Toughness hurts a lot when even the most basic Space Marine weapon is effective against us. Any tips on handling SM? Plasma spam is a solid idea but I only have 2 Plasma Calivers and can only fit in 1 without dumping something else.
The Canticles, in general, seem quite strong. I definitely forgot about them at some point during list building, but I can see why our kill team maxes out at 11 dudes on the table. Thinking about 11+ models running around with shroud psalm is kinda nuts
Mr. Funktastic wrote: Also had a game against Space Marines though and it was brutal to say the least. Didn't manage to do much to him with my shooting at all and bad rolls and poor positioning led to 3 of my models out of action by turn 2, including my Ruststalker. My Infiltrator actually managed to make it into combat but didn't accomplish much with his Taser Goad even with Conquerer Doctrina Imperative. T4 and 3+ save can't be underestimated especially since my list overall averages about AP -1. Also T3 hurts a lot considering Bolters are S4 although to be fair I couldn't make my armro saves to save my life that game. A Power Sword is definitely the better option against power armor but against factions with 4+ or worse saves I like the Taser Goad a bit more. I might make an Infiltrator with a Power Sword to either replace my Infiltrator Princeps or complement both my Princeps and replace my Arquebus and see how that goes. Space Marines are definitely a challenging matchup for Ad Mech for sure despite our impressive shooting, our low Toughness hurts a lot when even the most basic Space Marine weapon is effective against us. Any tips on handling SM? Plasma spam is a solid idea but I only have 2 Plasma Calivers and can only fit in 1 without dumping something else.
Two Plasma Calivers is plenty, and I think every list needs to build around two of them. Again, got to have some S8 shooting.
Kill Team isn't a format where you can have significant efficiency from hordes. The low point cap means there's no such thing as a cheap body, which causes minor increases in points have outsized impact. The turn structure and morale penalises being the larger team. And the shift from save bonuses to minus hits disproportionately penalizes poor BS mostly. So flexible, elite armies like SM will be dominant. We're actually in a good middle ground. Shroudpsalm though will put us ontop against superior shooting armies like Tau.
All your melee should be specialized against T4. Indirectly, this also let's you specialize against T3 due to the -1 toughness, as all your T4+ weapons get the 2+ against T2. I take Power Sword and Stubcarbines on my Infiltrator Princep; I don't think I'll use CDI much, actually. Chordclaw and Transonic Blades on my Ruststalker Princep. Taser Goad and Phosphor on my Vanguard Alpha. S6 and -1 toughness is brutal.
True, I think we're in a solid position. Great shooting, good melee, good durability for T3 at least, and we'll average around 8-9 models. Not quite elite but not quite horde-y. Here's a list I'm thinking about for taking on power armor
++ Kill Team List (Adeptus Mechanicus) [100pts] ++
I'll leave open the option to give my Vanguard Alpha an Arc Maul + Phosphor Blast Pistol but considering my SM opponents are mostly at range and don't have any melee threats I'm comfortable with plinking away at 18" with a radium carbine if need be if it keeps my leader safe from rapid fire bolters.
Mr. Funktastic wrote: True, I think we're in a solid position. Great shooting, good melee, good durability for T3 at least, and we'll average around 8-9 models. Not quite elite but not quite horde-y. Here's a list I'm thinking about for taking on power armor
Spoiler:
++ Kill Team List (Adeptus Mechanicus) [100pts] ++
I'll leave open the option to give my Vanguard Alpha an Arc Maul + Phosphor Blast Pistol but considering my SM opponents are mostly at range and don't have any melee threats I'm comfortable with plinking away at 18" with a radium carbine if need be if it keeps my leader safe from rapid fire bolters.
I'm so going to steal this list. Has a good balance of ranged and melee and has plenty of ways of carving through armor saves. Kudos.
I found out that the roster part is incredible important. You can't prepare allcorner lists in this environment.
All of those lists above could be easily eaten by common list of some army. Hell, even deployment zones and scouting phase can kick them in the nuts.
I sggest (assuming that we aim for competitive and semi-competitive environment) posts all this list with their respective strong and weak sides, and for watch matchup they were prepared for.
We also need to distinguish form Kill teams [100 pts] and roosters [20 models]
Spoiler:
++ Kill Team List (Adeptus Mechanicus) [258pts] ++
+ Configuration +
List Configuration: Matched Play: Command Roster
+ Leaders +
Infiltrator Princeps [15pts]: Leader, Stubcarbine and Powersword
Sicarian Infiltrator [14pts]: Stubcarbine and Powersword
Sicarian Infiltrator [14pts]: Stubcarbine and Powersword
Sicarian Ruststalker [14pts]: Transonic blades
Sicarian Ruststalker [14pts]: Transonic blades
Skitarii Ranger [10pts]: Omnispex
Skitarii Vanguard [10pts]: Omnispex
Skitarii Vanguard [9pts]
Skitarii Vanguard [9pts]
Skitarii Vanguard Gunner [13pts]: Plasma caliver
Skitarii Vanguard Gunner [13pts]: Plasma caliver
Skitarii Vanguard Gunner [13pts]: Plasma caliver
++ Total: [258pts] ++
Now I'm testing this rooster. Found out that i need sometime have a little break with my love- transarq and put more melee in its place. Missions with small deployments are not good for it, so are ws melee monsters like DG flail.
Gnollu wrote: I just bought Sicarians box, purely for Kill Team. How should I build those 5 models?
Well I've played a game today where I tried a list with 6 Infiltrators and 1 Vanguard Alpha as a Leader. 3 with tasers and 3 with swords, was playing the Recover Intelligence mission, where you score objective points each battle round, against a team full of Skitarii Rangers. I didn't lose a single model and wiped my opponent off the table, while still leading something like 18-3 in points. I'd like to try it more, it was fun to be on the move and seeking the charges like that.
Just to say I still hotly recommend to build Infiltrators instead of Ruststalkers. Infiltrators are MUCH better than their counterparts, because they have:
- a pistol, with a great number of shots;
- a -1 Ld aura, which can help considerably to Break the enemy team and fail Nerve tests;
- less hazardous CC weapons, I mean either you strike at S6 minimum with exploding 6s to Hit, or at S4 with AP-3, you don't rely on 6s to Wound to cripple your opponent
They may have one less attack base but the reasons I stated above should be enough to convince you. How many times did I kill models with my pistols ? More than you'd think. And when in the round 2 of a CC fight it's always tasty to tell your opponent "So now my Infiltrator will shoot 5 times at your dude".
Use Swords when facing T4 and/or MEQ with big armour saves, and Tasers against T3 like Guards and Aeldari. Against Scions or Skitarii having both is nice, as they are a mix between an average Toughness and a good save.
Use Swords when facing T4 and/or MEQ with big armour saves, and Tasers against T3 like Guards and Aeldari. Against Scions or Skitarii having both is nice, as they are a mix between an average Toughness and a good save.
I thought about magnetizing but just looking at the tiny, tiny joints on especially their sword hand, I decided it's probably not possible to magnetize them cleanly at least not with 2x1mm magnets.
That was very similar to my first list. I believe I had an Arc Rifle instead of the Vanguard Alpha, and mixed rangers and vanguards for the generics. It was a good way to see how all of the weapons played out on the table. I don't feel like the Alphas do much in melee by themselves, but do well when paired with some Infiltrators/Ruststalkers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am really struggling on when to take the Transuranic Arquebus and when to leave it at home. The last two games I played, I didn't take it and it would have really helped me counter snip my opponent. The two games prior, I did take it and regretted it. I'm sure some of it is the terrain and whether I win the roll for choosing board position.
How are you deciding when to bring it? Are there certain missions that are clear winners and losers for it? Obviously it's not a great win on the Take Prisoners mission.
Looks like a nice TAC list, you lack in the CC department and the Vanguard Alpha might be better with a simple Radium Carbine. The Carbine is really powerful at KT given the potential to inflict 3D, and volume of fire is powerful in this game, too.
You have basically two options when using an Alpha as Leader: stock gear or pistol + CC. Now what use is the Leader in KT ? Giving additional CPs (really important) and using its Leader Stratagem when engaged in CC with multiple friendly models nearby.
In the first case you want to keep him hidden or at least Obscured to keep him alive, you can give him either stock equipment so as to shoot when the opportunity presents itself, or keep him completely hidden and so give him a pistol and CC weapon to try to defend himself better if he gets engaged (and it looks cooler ).
In the second case you'll obviously want him in CC as well as other squadmates. In that situation you'll probably have built your list with melee in head and you'll have Infiltrators/Ruststalkers because they're made for this, and as they have an additional Wound and more mobility your Leader might as well be a Sicarian Princeps to actually be useful in CC himself (better WS, more Attacks, better S).
So you have to decide what you want to do with your Leader. With your list I would keep the Vanguard Alpha with the Carbine, the additional point cost could be worth it to keep a Ld 7 model in case your Leader falls.
Hope that advice helped !
Kelbesq wrote:I am really struggling on when to take the Transuranic Arquebus and when to leave it at home. The last two games I played, I didn't take it and it would have really helped me counter snip my opponent. The two games prior, I did take it and regretted it. I'm sure some of it is the terrain and whether I win the roll for choosing board position.
How are you deciding when to bring it? Are there certain missions that are clear winners and losers for it? Obviously it's not a great win on the Take Prisoners mission.
You'll want the Arquebus whenever you have to defend, like if you're the defender in Assassinate mission, or in that mission where you must prevent your opponent destroying objectives. Honestly I see few situations where you don't want it, if you see you won't be able do deploy him in a manner where he can have good shooting arcs without moving maybe don't bother, he'll be a burden. Even in Take Prisoners he can be useful to shoot a big mean model before he reaches CC but I believe a Plasma Caliver would be best in this situation.
I play my Arquebus every time along my Commnispex Ranger and I can think of 2 games where he either didn't have good arcs or fumbled completely (and even this it's due to luck). Just that time I played the 6 Infiltrators + 1 Vanguard Alpha list I didn't have him.
You'll want the Arquebus whenever you have to defend, like if you're the defender in Assassinate mission, or in that mission where you must prevent your opponent destroying objectives. Honestly I see few situations where you don't want it, if you see you won't be able do deploy him in a manner where he can have good shooting arcs without moving maybe don't bother, he'll be a burden. Even in Take Prisoners he can be useful to shoot a big mean model before he reaches CC but I believe a Plasma Caliver would be best in this situation.
I play my Arquebus every time along my Commnispex Ranger and I can think of 2 games where he either didn't have good arcs or fumbled completely (and even this it's due to luck). Just that time I played the 6 Infiltrators + 1 Vanguard Alpha list I didn't have him.
Thanks for the feedback. I thought you had to form your Kill Team before you decided attacker/defender, but then I went back to double check, and I was wrong. That makes a big difference. I did play a round of Recover Intelligence where there was no spot in the deployment zone with any cover (which happens if you use the suggested setup in Core Manual), so you'd want to move turn 1 in that scenario. I might be less inclined to bring the TA in that terrain, especially if there is a high change of getting sniped by my opponent in turn 1.
Looks like a nice TAC list, you lack in the CC department and the Vanguard Alpha might be better with a simple Radium Carbine. The Carbine is really powerful at KT given the potential to inflict 3D, and volume of fire is powerful in this game, too.
You have basically two options when using an Alpha as Leader: stock gear or pistol + CC. Now what use is the Leader in KT ? Giving additional CPs (really important) and using its Leader Stratagem when engaged in CC with multiple friendly models nearby.
In the first case you want to keep him hidden or at least Obscured to keep him alive, you can give him either stock equipment so as to shoot when the opportunity presents itself, or keep him completely hidden and so give him a pistol and CC weapon to try to defend himself better if he gets engaged (and it looks cooler ).
In the second case you'll obviously want him in CC as well as other squadmates. In that situation you'll probably have built your list with melee in head and you'll have Infiltrators/Ruststalkers because they're made for this, and as they have an additional Wound and more mobility your Leader might as well be a Sicarian Princeps to actually be useful in CC himself (better WS, more Attacks, better S).
So you have to decide what you want to do with your Leader. With your list I would keep the Vanguard Alpha with the Carbine, the additional point cost could be worth it to keep a Ld 7 model in case your Leader falls.
Hope that advice helped !
Kelbesq wrote:I am really struggling on when to take the Transuranic Arquebus and when to leave it at home. The last two games I played, I didn't take it and it would have really helped me counter snip my opponent. The two games prior, I did take it and regretted it. I'm sure some of it is the terrain and whether I win the roll for choosing board position.
How are you deciding when to bring it? Are there certain missions that are clear winners and losers for it? Obviously it's not a great win on the Take Prisoners mission.
You'll want the Arquebus whenever you have to defend, like if you're the defender in Assassinate mission, or in that mission where you must prevent your opponent destroying objectives. Honestly I see few situations where you don't want it, if you see you won't be able do deploy him in a manner where he can have good shooting arcs without moving maybe don't bother, he'll be a burden. Even in Take Prisoners he can be useful to shoot a big mean model before he reaches CC but I believe a Plasma Caliver would be best in this situation.
I play my Arquebus every time along my Commnispex Ranger and I can think of 2 games where he either didn't have good arcs or fumbled completely (and even this it's due to luck). Just that time I played the 6 Infiltrators + 1 Vanguard Alpha list I didn't have him.
thx for the advice!
so coming to conclusions: ( as i have only starter set and no CC troops like infiltrators)
this list should do fine and i keep the ranger leader hidden
++ Kill Team List (Adeptus Mechanicus) [100pts] ++
Looks great ! Let us know how your first games go. You should seek to play more defensively as you lack serious CC models without Sicarians, and manoeuver your models so as to be always covered by another friendly model. If you get charged and it's your opponent who has the Initiative for the turn, remember you can Fall Back with your models, so as to immediately shoot the engaging enemy model.
Hi all! New to Kill-Team and only have the book and have never played 40k. Reading through your thoughts on the Plasma Caliver and I wonder why people don't take it more. It is only range 18 but the board size makes it so one move and you are able to reach the back end of the board. It has 2 shots it has assault so you can move farther (with the minus to hit but it may also get you into the 9 inch range making it the same). Assuming you want your guy to live and not over charge it then the gun has a Strength of 7 making it wound regular troops on a 2+ and any of the marines/orcs on a 3+. Then it has a -3 AP meaning regular troops have no save or have to rely on their invulnerable save and Marines down to a 6+. If you really need to take out that other guy you can overcharge increasing the odds even further, 2+ wounding on everything but tough 5 and 2 wounds for 2d6 take the highest roll. That weapon seems like the most reliable way I have seen to take out an enemy model. Am I not seeing the downside? I am sorry I feel like such a newb.
xadmar wrote: Hi all! New to Kill-Team and only have the book and have never played 40k. Reading through your thoughts on the Plasma Caliver and I wonder why people don't take it more. It is only range 18 but the board size makes it so one move and you are able to reach the back end of the board. It has 2 shots it has assault so you can move farther (with the minus to hit but it may also get you into the 9 inch range making it the same). Assuming you want your guy to live and not over charge it then the gun has a Strength of 7 making it wound regular troops on a 2+ and any of the marines/orcs on a 3+. Then it has a -3 AP meaning regular troops have no save or have to rely on their invulnerable save and Marines down to a 6+. If you really need to take out that other guy you can overcharge increasing the odds even further, 2+ wounding on everything but tough 5 and 2 wounds for 2d6 take the highest roll. That weapon seems like the most reliable way I have seen to take out an enemy model. Am I not seeing the downside? I am sorry I feel like such a newb.
No you're right and I changed my mind since my last post arguing about plasma. I didn't try it yet but if when I do I'll play it instead of my Arquebus to give him Sniper specialism for rerolls. It's a great weapon but the downside is the range, while 18" is more than half the board you still have to be within 9" (a dangerously close distance) to not suffer the -1 to Hit.
What I prefer in the Arquebus is the almost perfect accuracy coupled with an Commnispex (I'm keeping that word) Ranger besides to give +1 and ignore Obscured, my opponents know to hide from him when they can but at the same time they want him down. So they hide their most valuable models from my LoS, which in turn helps me deploying the rest of my team. If they don't hide they take the risk to get killed outright (I rolled 3 for damage more times than not) but they can try to take him out, so it's a risk/reward situation. Your plasma won't get that threat range, and while they'll certainly target him when they can you can't intimidate them the same way most of the times (depends on deployment zones).
In my opinion plasma is also a risk/reward weapon, you have more shots with better AP, chance to overcharge for tougher targets, but need careful placement. The Arquebus you basically set it up and never move again, while covering the whole board (and so meddling in enemy movement), with a chance to deal a mortal wound (nice against Harlequins for instance), with slightly less AP and random damage. The average damage is still 2, but your average plasma damage is 1 so there's that.
I'd say, once more, it depends on the mission, and that's why we have a roster. If you have to keep being on the move or if the terrain is too cluttered go with plasma, if you have to hold objectives and can draw clear fire arcs, the Arquebus won't disappoint.
I like using a Plasma Caliver with the heavy specialization. Heavy spec lets you ignore the penalty for Advancing, and you can spend a CP for 3 shots instead of 2.
If you need to supercharge to threaten T4 enemies, you can always use the canticle that lets you reroll 1's in the shooting phase. The best part about the canticle is that it applies to all of your plasma calivers, so in theory, you could have 6 on the field all rerolling 1's.
Ive played 3 games now, and my god, Admech drop like flies. Anyone else experiencing just massive, massive losses? I feel like I do very little damage and fold like paper
Cephalobeard wrote: Ive played 3 games now, and my god, Admech drop like flies. Anyone else experiencing just massive, massive losses? I feel like I do very little damage and fold like paper
What are your teams composed of most of the time ? And what are your opponent's ?
I feel quite the opposite. Only once did my team really get slaughtered down to a few models, my other loss was due to having a Broken team which prevented me from winning the mission. I think Vanguards are good to take models OoA with the 6s to Wound, it always catches my opponent by surprise.
Skitarii Vanguard Alpha (Leader) - 15
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether
5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Galvanic Rifle
This one ?
3 Frag cannons are tough, it obliges you to keep your distance lest you get obliterated by 2d6 autoshots at close range. I feel you lack special weapons to deal with tough armour saves, Arc Rifles are cheap and strong, maybe a single plasma could help too. And maybe bring another Infiltrator so that he's not all alone in CC ? You can also fill your AP department with Infiltrators with swords, they're really good I've found.
Gnollu wrote: I just bought Sicarians box, purely for Kill Team. How should I build those 5 models?
While Infiltrators are more versatile, the Neurostatic aura doesn't stack with additional Infiltrators and the pistols can't be used on a turn the model charges or is charged. Likewise, especially when bringing a mostly melee list, it's a good idea to have more than one model along with your top leadership score.
For those reasons I'd suggest building a mix, mostly Infiltrators with a Ruststalkers Princeps and perhaps one regular Rustalker. In melee heavy missions (I. E. Take Prisoners) you'll want to have both a Combat specialist and a Zealot. Since Zealots rely on charging and number of attacks to proc their abilities, a Ruststalker Princeps makes a better Zealot than an Infiltrator does.
Just curious, but why would you take the arquebus on a Ranger and not a Vanguard? I know it's a corner case, but were that model to ever get into CC wouldn't the Vanguard be strictly better? And since they otherwise cost the same amount of points...is there something I am missing here? Similar question on the Leader with the taser goad...taser goad would allow a Vanguard Alpha to double out T3 models...a Ranger Alpha can only ever hope to wound on a 3+.
I feel like I am totally missing something and being an idiot here...what is it?
Aaranis wrote: I always play with 2-3 Infiltrators, sometimes more. They're really polyvalent and can keep some enemy models at bay.
Anyone playtested Ruststalkers lately ? I'm still curious as to their efficiency, although I'm quite pessimistic.
Sort of. After watching a Battle Report of mostly Ruststalkers against Tyranid horde I tried something similar by bringing 5x Infiltrators and 2x Alphas all with Taser Goads when I faced the gaunt swarm in a Take Prisoners match. I managed to fight to a tie, but compared to the Batrep, my Infiltrators underperformed. I scored some early flesh wounds in the first two rounds with my pistols, but once the crush of melee happened my opponent would simply have Termagaunts take turns falling back and charging in to deny me any pistol shots. Once the flesh wounds started to stack up I couldn't proc Taser hits without spending 3CP (Doctrina Tactic plus Grit Teeth Tactic). Even when it did proc, the added hits on the same target were usually wasted. Having 3 attacks instead of just 2 attacks is HUGE when you're being buried in cheap bodies. I plan to buy/convert some Ruststalkers before facing that list again.
Well if you fail a charge with an Infiltrator you can pop them 5 times with that pistol. And I'd rather take a powersword than the transonic toys. Matter of preference maybe but I like the versatility of Infiltrators over Ruststalkers.
Weazel wrote: Well if you fail a charge with an Infiltrator you can pop them 5 times with that pistol. And I'd rather take a powersword than the transonic toys. Matter of preference maybe but I like the versatility of Infiltrators over Ruststalkers.
You can't fire any weapon if you attempted a charge with that model, succeed or fail.
Aaranis wrote: I always play with 2-3 Infiltrators, sometimes more. They're really polyvalent and can keep some enemy models at bay.
Anyone playtested Ruststalkers lately ? I'm still curious as to their efficiency, although I'm quite pessimistic.
Sort of. After watching a Battle Report of mostly Ruststalkers against Tyranid horde I tried something similar by bringing 5x Infiltrators and 2x Alphas all with Taser Goads when I faced the gaunt swarm in a Take Prisoners match. I managed to fight to a tie, but compared to the Batrep, my Infiltrators underperformed. I scored some early flesh wounds in the first two rounds with my pistols, but once the crush of melee happened my opponent would simply have Termagaunts take turns falling back and charging in to deny me any pistol shots. Once the flesh wounds started to stack up I couldn't proc Taser hits without spending 3CP (Doctrina Tactic plus Grit Teeth Tactic). Even when it did proc, the added hits on the same target were usually wasted. Having 3 attacks instead of just 2 attacks is HUGE when you're being buried in cheap bodies. I plan to buy/convert some Ruststalkers before facing that list again.
Yeah I see. Against a Tyranid Horde I'd play loads of Vanguards instead but that's not the point. I tend to prefer power swords because of the AP, and the S4 can always be buffed with a Canticle anyway. But against T3 like Tyranids you'd be wounding them on 4s with your Blasters and 2 with your Tasers.
Tactically, it depends on your mission of course but if you're facing a pure charge army like Tyranid horde you'd prefer to lure them in to be the one being charged. Then you have Overwatch, and the possibility to Fall Back yourself to spray them with Radium right after. Remember that in Take Prisoners you score points by killing a model within 1", so it means shooting it at point blank with a pistol works too if you can survive a round. It's not too hard to kill a T3/5+ model with a Blaster in CC, and you can Ready them at the movement phase.
In Take Prisoners my strategy is more to select the models I'm going to kill in CC and shoot the too dangerous ones. Getting your whole squad in CC is too much a risk against most dedicated armies. And Alphas with CC loadouts in that mission is a bet more than anything in my opinion :/
The Infiltrators' neurostatic aura may not stack but it still is really helpful, it can be the edge that will make models Shaken, and if it's in CC with you it can't disengage and you can happily maul it safely. If you have an Infiltrator near the highest Ld of the team it can help to Break the team entirely. Compared to that Ruststalkers only offer one more attack with no AP. A case where I can see Ruststalkers being better might be against a Rubric list, to bypass their 2+ armour save.
Weazel wrote: Well if you fail a charge with an Infiltrator you can pop them 5 times with that pistol. And I'd rather take a powersword than the transonic toys. Matter of preference maybe but I like the versatility of Infiltrators over Ruststalkers.
You can't fire any weapon if you attempted a charge with that model, succeed or fail.
Right you are. Well anyway, doesn't change the fact that I still prefer them over stalkers.
The model count is a bit low, so I'd be extra careful about your initial deployment, especially with the Transuranic Arquebus, but it has strengths at both very long range and very short so I'd expect it to hold its own against conventional TAC lists. Please share any battle reports.
Though, if I might echo the posters above who make heavy use of Infiltrators, yours might better serve this list with the Power Sword pairing rather than the Taser Goad config. Your Rustalker Princeps provides volume of attacks, your Infiltrator can complement that by bringing high AP. You can still 3+ to wound T4 enemies by using the +1S Canticle when you need it. Of course, if facing a faction with invulnerable saves, stick with the taser. Best of luck!
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Aaranis: All good points. I'm quite fond of my Infiltrators finally having a use (they got shot off the table the turn I drop them every time I run them in 8E). They are a remarkably capable and versatile unit somewhat superior to Ruststalkers in most situations. It's simply that they are not superior to Ruststalkers in ALL situations, and those situations where a Ruststalker works better are fairly easy to identify prior to the start of the match just by looking at the mission, terrain, and opposing Command Roster. E. G. Matches that pit you against melee horde armies and/or in dense terrain and/or while needing to contest objectives outside your deployment zone.
So while I include an Infiltrator in my usual TAC list, I intend to keep a few Ruststalkers in my Command Roster to swap in when the circumstances favor it.
Incidentally, if you have tried running pure Vanguard against Tyranid horde, how did it go? I considered that approach but haven't tried it yet. Much as I like to arm my Alpha to go down swinging, I'm not much confident in models with only 1 Attack at 4+ WS getting much done in melee by themselves, even with wounding on 2+ from Canticle and Rad.
I think it's quite versatile and the combo with the arquebuses can work
regards
Hi ! I think that list would do great in a meta with lots of MEQ players, and if that's the case you should think about swapping the taser for a power sword as said above. As for the versatility of the team, I'm not sure two arquebuses would work. There are some deployments that will force at least one arquebus to climb somewhere first before having a good spot to fire, and that means it will spend time doing nothing. I believe it could be better to swap the second arquebus with a regular or gunner, to have a tad more mobility.
Also, beware of your Leader on the front line, people tend to focus them to make you lose your CP generator, so move cleverly and try to support his charges.
Urusigh wrote:@Aaranis: All good points. I'm quite fond of my Infiltrators finally having a use (they got shot off the table the turn I drop them every time I run them in 8E). They are a remarkably capable and versatile unit somewhat superior to Ruststalkers in most situations. It's simply that they are not superior to Ruststalkers in ALL situations, and those situations where a Ruststalker works better are fairly easy to identify prior to the start of the match just by looking at the mission, terrain, and opposing Command Roster. E. G. Matches that pit you against melee horde armies and/or in dense terrain and/or while needing to contest objectives outside your deployment zone.
So while I include an Infiltrator in my usual TAC list, I intend to keep a few Ruststalkers in my Command Roster to swap in when the circumstances favor it.
Incidentally, if you have tried running pure Vanguard against Tyranid horde, how did it go? I considered that approach but haven't tried it yet. Much as I like to arm my Alpha to go down swinging, I'm not much confident in models with only 1 Attack at 4+ WS getting much done in melee by themselves, even with wounding on 2+ from Canticle and Rad.
I agree with you, Ruststalkers are probably better in some instances. I don't claim to know everything so that's why I asked what people thought on them. I transformed my 5 Ruststalkers in 5 other Infiltrators because I was sad to see they were useless in 8E and not really more better in KT.
The Command Roster is invaluable and everyone should build one for their KT games, it is another step to balancing the game.
I played against a GSC team once but it wasn't a Tyranid horde, it went really good as I lost one model but my opponent had misunderstood the charge rules and so the game would have been way different if he had known.
The other horde I've faced were Orks and Poxwalkers, and both time my lists had a good amount of Vanguards, Infiltrators and a Commnispex + Sniper arquebus combo. I also like to include arc rifles. Against the Orks it went well, and the Poxwalker horde too. Against the DG with 4 Plague Marines and loads of Poxs I had 4 regular Vanguards (my leader among them), 2 Infiltrators, Commnispex + Sniper arquebus combo, and a Ranger. I killed 14 models out of his 16 and lost one Infiltrator !
So when I talked about lots of Vanguards in this scenario it means a good part, not all of it. Against the Tyranid horde I'd lure them in (how would they kill my models otherwise ?), and start a shooting gallery, then send the Infiltrators to finish the job. Vanguards are perfect when facing 5+ or 6+ models, and can ensure they stay dead pretty good. With a little luck you can spray a cluster of models close to each other with the 3 shots and maybe wound them all !
Skitarii Vanguard Alpha [10pts]: Phosphor blast pistol, Power sword
++ Total: [100pts] ++
The idea is easy, just get the vanguards and go forward with them (or maybe the one with omnispex next to the arquebus depending on which opponent is) and the rangers covering distances from behind. Also the comms data-tether next to the arquebus for the bonus and for the Protector Doctrina Imperative tactic.
Skitarii Vanguard Alpha [10pts]: Phosphor blast pistol, Power sword
++ Total: [100pts] ++
The idea is easy, just get the vanguards and go forward with them (or maybe the one with omnispex next to the arquebus depending on which opponent is) and the rangers covering distances from behind. Also the comms data-tether next to the arquebus for the bonus and for the Protector Doctrina Imperative tactic.
Is there any way to improve it?
Hi and welcome to Kill Team !
Your list looks good, I'd just switch the gear of the Vanguard Alpha for a Radium Carbine but that's just my preference, it could give your list some AP too. If you go that way however I think the Arc Pistol is better, as S6 AP-1 would be pretty good if you were to shoot once in CC with it, you'd wound MEQ on 2+ at point blank thanks to the Radioactive rule. But ignoring Obscured with the Blast Pistol is nice too, just a matter of choice.
Make the Arc Rifle a Vanguard instead of a Ranger to give him a slight advantage in CC with Radioactive, there's no other reasons to have Rangers Gunners except if you have already too many Vanguard Gunners.
Skitarii Vanguard Alpha [10pts]: Phosphor blast pistol, Power sword
++ Total: [100pts] ++
The idea is easy, just get the vanguards and go forward with them (or maybe the one with omnispex next to the arquebus depending on which opponent is) and the rangers covering distances from behind. Also the comms data-tether next to the arquebus for the bonus and for the Protector Doctrina Imperative tactic.
Is there any way to improve it?
Hi and welcome to Kill Team !
Your list looks good, I'd just switch the gear of the Vanguard Alpha for a Radium Carbine but that's just my preference, it could give your list some AP too. If you go that way however I think the Arc Pistol is better, as S6 AP-1 would be pretty good if you were to shoot once in CC with it, you'd wound MEQ on 2+ at point blank thanks to the Radioactive rule. But ignoring Obscured with the Blast Pistol is nice too, just a matter of choice.
Make the Arc Rifle a Vanguard instead of a Ranger to give him a slight advantage in CC with Radioactive, there's no other reasons to have Rangers Gunners except if you have already too many Vanguard Gunners.
@Aaranis you are very wise with adeptus mechanicus...
what list would you recommend to start? and what do you think is the best list you can take???
One tweak I recommend: your sniper already has access to +1 to hit from both the Comms specialist and his own Tactic, letting him hit obscured targets on 2+, but you can save the CP by keeping your omnispex next to him, in which case it's better to put the omnispex on your Comms Ranger than on a Vanguard. Likewise, your Doctrina tactics only +2 within 6" of your data tether, so it's generally better to put the data tether on a Vanguard since you'll want him within 6" of your front line anyway, particularly near your Vanguard Alpha since he is your best melee model.
TLR
Swap which models have the data tether and the omnispex.
Thank you for the replies! Right, it's better putting the arc rifle on a vanguard. The true is I had the intention to choose the arc pistol but I don't know why I didn't took it on battlescribe lol
Urusigh wrote: One tweak I recommend: your sniper already has access to +1 to hit from both the Comms specialist and his own Tactic, letting him hit obscured targets on 2+, but you can save the CP by keeping your omnispex next to him, in which case it's better to put the omnispex on your Comms Ranger than on a Vanguard. Likewise, your Doctrina tactics only +2 within 6" of your data tether, so it's generally better to put the data tether on a Vanguard since you'll want him within 6" of your front line anyway, particularly near your Vanguard Alpha since he is your best melee model.
TLR
Swap which models have the data tether and the omnispex.
Understood. I thought the data-tether was better if I put him back as his ability affects all the team (survival issues you know xD).
I think of it this way: the data tether provides its primary benefit (reroll nerve tests) no matter where it is or what the model is doing. The omnispex only provides a benefit if it is with a shooter on the other side of cover from the target. That means the omnispex works best in the back. If you could place both war gear on Rangers I would suggest that, but one must go on a Vanguard, who inherently needs to be within 9" of his targets for best effect, so the data tether may as well be on the one that is close enough to Doctrina buff your melee units. It's not a big difference, but my experience is that the best way to preserve your model count (and therefore avoid break tests) is to maximize offensive efficiency. You have very limited melee capabilities, so it pays to guarantee hits when your one melee model does fight, especially if you are selecting a Canticle that turn for best effect (I. E. +1S to let your power sword 2+ wound against GEQ). YMMV
Good point, the bad thing is that probably the opponent will focus on eliminating the data-tether before any other vanguard, so being able to hide him from LoS would be the most important (and hard depending on the game's obstacles) thing to achieve.
DarrinTheOccult wrote: Good point, the bad thing is that probably the opponent will focus on eliminating the data-tether before any other vanguard, so being able to hide him from LoS would be the most important (and hard depending on the game's obstacles) thing to achieve.
In my experience, my opponents don't really care about the data-tether unless you've already used it to unleash a massive combo on them. The nerve test re-roll just isnt strong enough on the surface to warrant making the tether a high priority target. The bonus to the tactic also needs setup and another damage unit. It's just easier to take out the damage unit first, and not have to worry about the tether directly.
I've personally stopped using the tether. The nerve test reroll can be gotten via the canticles, and the combo is difficult to setup properly. +1/+2 to hit doesn't seem that big of a bonus for 5 points and 2 CP when there are other ways to get similar bonuses for less CP. If it was +1 to wound, it would be amazing. The only situation I could see it being extremely useful is when fishing for 6+'s on the Taser goad.
My experience is the same, opponents usually prioritize targeting your gunners and Alphas over the data tether, at least until your force is sufficiently wounded or broken that you're making enough nerve tests each turn for it to really matter. I don't always bring it either, but until you add Sicarians to your roster it's one of the few sources of melee buffs that you have and it does stack with all the others.
If parts weren't the limiter, how many Plasma Cavilers (and to a lesser degree, Arc Rfiles) would you take? How many on your roster? How many would you build?
I'm debating hacking up or buying some proxys. I'm just curious what everyone else does, and what everyone would run if they had an unlimited # of parts.
The results from NOVA may color this discussion a bit, but I was curious what the best build-out to face Primaris heavy marines was. I've got 3 sets (so 3 Arc Rifles, 3 Calivers, etc.) and I was thinking it might be best to just get as many special weapons as possible. 3 Plasma Calivers should do well against Primaris, ticking off both wounds when it comes to it. Something like:
The Arc Rifles don't really feel necessary, but the points work and they are better than Radium Carbines against those tough bastards. Only 1 specialist because I'm working from a Command Roster and I've got a bunch elsewhere... Thoughts?
I was exploring this as well. I do think Arc Rfiles are worth it. Your list only comes to 89 points, so there is room to modify it. You could simply add another body for 9 points. If you made it an Alpha as well, you could take melee weapons as a backup plan, but I'm not fond of melee Rangers/Vanguards.
- You could run 6x Plasma Calivers, a Ranger Alpha, and a Ranger with an Omispex for 98 pts.
- You could run 3x Plasma, 3x Arc, an Infiltrator Princeps, and a regular Infiltrator for 98 pts. That would give you some additional toughness, and some melee backup options.
Kelbesq wrote: I was exploring this as well. I do think Arc Rfiles are worth it. Your list only comes to 89 points, so there is room to modify it. You could simply add another body for 9 points. If you made it an Alpha as well, you could take melee weapons as a backup plan, but I'm not fond of melee Rangers/Vanguards.
- You could run 6x Plasma Calivers, a Ranger Alpha, and a Ranger with an Omispex for 98 pts.
- You could run 3x Plasma, 3x Arc, an Infiltrator Princeps, and a regular Infiltrator for 98 pts. That would give you some additional toughness, and some melee backup options.
Yeah, I sort of forgot I was only sitting at 89 points. I was trying to fit all the toys in, and I couldn't get any more fancy toys with the 11 points left over. Would likely go with a Vanguard Alpha with Radium Carbine. I considered something like your second list, but with a Ranger Alpha instead of the second Infiltrator. I really don't fancy the idea of a melee focused leader, I've seen how fast things die in CC. The problem is that I'm left with 6 points that I can't use. In other words, do I take a Comms/Omnispex Ranger and a second body (likely Vanguard Alpha) or take the Infiltrator and leave points on the table (...or third option, drop a Caliver to make up the difference...)?
IronNerd wrote: The results from NOVA may color this discussion a bit, but I was curious what the best build-out to face Primaris heavy marines was. I've got 3 sets (so 3 Arc Rifles, 3 Calivers, etc.) and I was thinking it might be best to just get as many special weapons as possible. 3 Plasma Calivers should do well against Primaris, ticking off both wounds when it comes to it. Something like:
The Arc Rifles don't really feel necessary, but the points work and they are better than Radium Carbines against those tough bastards. Only 1 specialist because I'm working from a Command Roster and I've got a bunch elsewhere... Thoughts?
Ah one of my two defeats was against 6 Primaris with stalker bolters and a grenade launcher, I feel your pain ! You definitely need multi-damage weapons, surcharged plasma is a good deal, but if you have the points a transuranic arquebus might be good, you'll have the range and can deal 2D on average, with worse AP but safer.
In other news, I just came back from another gaming session with the ongoing campaign I'm playing with some friends and so far haven't lost once ! Had a close call against T'au tonight but that's it. But now I have 12 guys/20 who jumped to lvl 2 so I'm excited to try out the new stuff. My Vanguards all gained +1M, which is nice, but my Infiltrators rolled Die-Hard, which allow me to substract 1 from their Injury rolls, making them quite resilient !
For my specialists my Leader Vanguard Alpha leveled up, as well as my Zealot Infiltrator Princeps with power sword (my favourite), and my Sniper with arquebus as well. I'll check which skills are interesting to take for all of them. Also my Combat specialist died (against two Stealth Suits... SHAME) so it freed a spot for the plasma guy I wanted to try, I'll give him a few shots soon hopefully. Have to decide if he goes Sniper or Heavy.
Weazel wrote: Any tips against a Boy/Kommando horde? There's just too many and when they eventually touch your lines you're dead.
Arc Rifles would be nice, they won't have a save and you wound on 3+. Infiltrators with Tasers pack a great volume of shots and can intercept them so they don't get to your other guys. Prefer Rangers than Vanguards for the regular guys, to wound easier and from further away.
The thing is that outside of the Arquebus they are really hard to drop realiably. Flesh wounds don't really slow them down that much until they have lost quite a few guys and they start getting shaken. Killing stuff dead in KT is not a trivial matter.
I have thought up a few lists but have not yet played the game. Vs Marines it would be Skitarii Ranger Alpha leader with Taser Goad, Vanguard Alpha with Comms and Power Sword, Vanguard Gunner with Plasma Caliver Sniper, Vanguard Gunner with Plasma Caliver Heavy then 3 Rangers gunners with PC and 1 Vanguard Gunner with PC. If you are doing a scenario or if you need better CC then you swap the Vanguard Ranger for a Ruststalker with Razor and Chordclaw and make them combat. Swap one of the Ranger Gunners to a Arc Rifle. Then for horde armys I was thinking about adding a bunch of Vanguards with Radium Rifles Assault 3. Have not built that last list but I figure if you are doing 20 guy pools you have room to add as many as you would need.
Yeah, Admech really need to be grouped up to support each other. And i can't recommend Sicarians enough. I played a few games without them and two with them, it was like night and day. The Sicarians open up so many options and the satisfaction of counter charging Genestealers and clearing them off the board with a Combat Ruststalker Princeps while the Infiltrators push backed by the gun line. My group calls them bs but there just salty they can't bully me with melee anymore.
Or you could build all three special weapons and take away a regular Skitarius to include them all, it'd cost 93 pts and you'd have 9 guys with three Gunners so that they can all be Specialists (preferably Sniper, Heavy or Comms).
You'd lack in the CC part of things but your shooting will be quite good. If you want to start optimising you'll definitely need a box of Sicarians and more different special weapons. Maybe see if someone in your area can trade you more bits ? Arc Rifle are basically free in points and really good.
Yeah for Gunners you might as well have Vanguards seeing as they have basically a free bonus in CC, otherwise Rangers and Vanguards are made to face different enemies, so a mix could work in the meantime if you don't have more models to build a full roster.
Kill Team 98 points. Not optimum as they were built for look rather than play (if I’d known Kill Team was coming out.. )
Just uses the one set of models, a mix of weapons (the 10th is a Ranger with Galvanic),
Just need to decide on specialists for them.
(potentially I can have another lot to build other potential options)
My recent game against Death Guard was prettttttyyyyyy good. Pretty much shot them off the board. Even when they got close enough I just advanced my Vanguard back.
Cataphract wrote: My recent game against Death Guard was prettttttyyyyyy good. Pretty much shot them off the board. Even when they got close enough I just advanced my Vanguard back.
What were you facing ? Pox horde or more PM ? Which mission ?
I got my butt kicked by 4 buffed up Plague Marines (Zealot lvl 3 and such) in Take Prisoners, I launched three Infiltrators against a Combat Master (lvl 3 ability that gives +1A for each enemy within 1"), 2 died. Two against the Zealot with Flail that killed them both on the spot, and my Plasma guy died from overcharge on his first two shots trying to take the Zealot out, only to give him a flesh wound. Then my team got Broken so I just gave up at round 2 seeing as I couldn't win.
Some questions regarding General Kill Team things and Ad Mech:
If my Data-Tether guy is near someone and I use the Protector Doctrine I can add 2 to hit for that model, Comms does the same thing (just the +1).
So technically there’s a +3 available (I don’t think I’d ever need that much though), but I could have that on the same guy, giving the two people near him a +1 and +2 to hit.
Worth doing?
Another point thinking about the Comms guy, Rousing Transmission says subtract 1 from Nerve ‘as if Comms was within 2” of them’
Where on that page does it say he gets people to subtract 1 if within 2” normally? Or what page is it on should I say.
Demo Spec: Custom ammo gives +1 to wound for 1CP, level 1 is +1 to wound if obscured. So I’m right in thinking +2 if obscured and CP spent? There’s no either/or, or no stacking that I can see?
Hopefully playing my first game of Kill Team so been reading the book a bit more just opens many questions for me..
Cataphract wrote: My recent game against Death Guard was prettttttyyyyyy good. Pretty much shot them off the board. Even when they got close enough I just advanced my Vanguard back.
What were you facing ? Pox horde or more PM ? Which mission ?
I got my butt kicked by 4 buffed up Plague Marines (Zealot lvl 3 and such) in Take Prisoners, I launched three Infiltrators against a Combat Master (lvl 3 ability that gives +1A for each enemy within 1"), 2 died. Two against the Zealot with Flail that killed them both on the spot, and my Plasma guy died from overcharge on his first two shots trying to take the Zealot out, only to give him a flesh wound. Then my team got Broken so I just gave up at round 2 seeing as I couldn't win.
It was Take Prisoners and a more DG focused List. I can’t remember the exact details but he had two with bolters, one with Plague Flamer, a poxwalker and one with that flail. I set up in the corner of the map with clear line of sight down the middle, but I set my guys up in a sort of L shaped formation. Arc rifle and Plasma Cavalier toward the top edge of my deployment zone, then a Arc Rifle further down, my Leader, OmniCom Ranger and Arquebus in the corner, and my Plasma cavalier Heavy and Vanomnispex the closest toward the DG.
They moved toward me diagonally across the board so it became something of a shooting gallery. Turn One my Plasma Cavalier took out his Flail guy, Arc Rifle caused the Pocwalker to go into shock pretty much the rest of the game. Advanced my Vanguard Heavy out to take shots at the advancing group of DG and when they got close I advanced them back and kept shooting. His DG kind of got trapped in the middle section where there was cover and I whittled them down. I pretty much ended things in Round 3. We only resolved Round 4 with Combat when I charged my Arc Vanguard to capture his Poxwalker but we both failed to do anything.
So it was a draw because we both had a 99points list though he only had his Poxwalker and Leader on the board and Id only lost my Plasma Heavy.
Though to be fair, I was earlier that night almost shot off the board by Orks due to some amazingly bad shooting and save rolls on my part!
DarrinTheOccult wrote: Hey, I'm gonna face first time Grey Knights this friday. Any advices?
Never faced them, but they don't look that impressive. From what I'm reading about them in the CM I'd say bring Plasma and maybe an Arquebus, depending on the terrain. Bring a few Infiltrators with Swords to lock in CC, but try being the first to strike, as they hit pretty hard. You may prefer Vanguards instead of Rangers to try to wound them on 6s for the sweet 3D.
Yesterday I played against CSM.
My list consisted 2 infiltrators and one ruststalker...
I never imagined they are so squishy... Even cultists are threat to them.
Cause I am not "maining" mechanicus right now, could You please sell me some tips, how to run sicarians?
Also, arquebus is useless xD. With lot of los blocking terrain he just cannot see anything and moving actually prohibits him from shooting
Gnollu wrote: Yesterday I played against CSM.
My list consisted 2 infiltrators and one ruststalker...
I never imagined they are so squishy... Even cultists are threat to them.
Cause I am not "maining" mechanicus right now, could You please sell me some tips, how to run sicarians?
Also, arquebus is useless xD. With lot of los blocking terrain he just cannot see anything and moving actually prohibits him from shooting
Surely you had more than 3 models ? But yes they are not the most resilient army out there because of T3 but they have decent saves (4+/6++). Could you tell us how you used yours, and what your opponent's list looked like ? The mission could help, too.
The arquebus is filling a specific role that is threatening a large zone in the battlefield, meaning you influence the movements of your opponent's models and thus you can move yours accordingly to create shooting galleries. However yes, the terrain and its disposition must accommodate him, and the deployment plays its role too. If you notice there's no piece of terrain from where he could have a nice point of view, don't bring him and just take a plasma instead. It's very important to have a full roster in KT when you have the models, instead of just having a single team of 100 pts for every situation. It's the first time that I know of where GW encourages you to list tailor so make good use of it.
I charged my infiltrators each into 2 CSM with chainswords. He had 4 CSM, one champion with PF and PP, rest was cultists. I think that volume of attacks simply wore me down as I was overzealous with this great looking models.
What do you think of this team? I had some satisfying results with it, facing Tau, Necrons, Deathwatch, and Thousand Sons, but I'd like to make it a balanced, all-rounder list for every situation. Any ideas, please?
First image I have seen of our commanders datasheet at least the generic one
I saw this from youtube reviews now that its out (my book is in the mail) but I don't want to get in trouble if we are not supposed to post datasheets.
we actually have a cheaper commander option in an engineseer, and the tech priest dominus, he is on the pricier side
Hi all! I'm currently doing a bit of list building, and whilst I seem to not be too far off what others have been saying works reasonably well. Anyone have any strong thoughts on UR-025? And any tips for fighting guard? Cheers!
UR-025 can be a real pain in the ass if used correctly. It's though, tanky and it can bite hard as well.
Just be aware of enemy plasmas/meltas/anti-tank weapons. Pick them off first and then laugh as the robot shrugs off a tremendous amount of enemy fire and then regenerates next turn.
I use it as a kind of a line breaker and a bait/distraction/psychological tool. My opponent usually focuses on shooting at it and leaves the rest of the team alone. Ideal for capturing objectives in the open.
Now I'm thinking about a new list for my next game. People got used I usually field the UR and started to take more anti-tank guns, so I'm going to surprise them.
Now I have 4 points left, which I can spend on a single level-up for a specialist. I was thinking either giving a bonus to a sniper to give him reroll on wounds or giving the infiltrator a +1WS. Possibly switching the combat specialist to a zealot.
The non-specialist should form a somewhat expendable 'strike team' that will protect the specialists, while the leader camps behind since his range is able to cover the entire table.
Alpha with pistol and maul serves as a defense against close combat cannon fodder like Poxwalkers, but since it has S5, it can hurt marines as well, eventually.
posermcbogus wrote: Hi all! I'm currently doing a bit of list building, and whilst I seem to not be too far off what others have been saying works reasonably well. Anyone have any strong thoughts on UR-025? And any tips for fighting guard? Cheers!
UR-025 is an RPG tank. He isn't weak in terms of damage output but I'd consider his gun and power fist to be on the curve for a 20 point model. The big strength of the model is that he is by far the toughest model in the game. He is one of the few models in the game that can realistically tank things like plasma, missiles, etc, especially if you get him cover. He is very good at contesting objectives or making a corridor dangerous.
Hawky wrote:UR-025 can be a real pain in the ass if used correctly. It's though, tanky and it can bite hard as well.
Just be aware of enemy plasmas/meltas/anti-tank weapons. Pick them off first and then laugh as the robot shrugs off a tremendous amount of enemy fire and then regenerates next turn.
I use it as a kind of a line breaker and a bait/distraction/psychological tool. My opponent usually focuses on shooting at it and leaves the rest of the team alone. Ideal for capturing objectives in the open.
novembermike wrote: UR-025 is an RPG tank. He isn't weak in terms of damage output but I'd consider his gun and power fist to be on the curve for a 20 point model. The big strength of the model is that he is by far the toughest model in the game. He is one of the few models in the game that can realistically tank things like plasma, missiles, etc, especially if you get him cover. He is very good at contesting objectives or making a corridor dangerous.
Yo! Used UR-025 in a game at the weekend - and fellas I won! I actually fething won a game! so I'd call it a great success. He dropped a pretty constant amount of bodies, soaked up a nice amount of fire, and just could not be pushed off the objective he was camping. Also realized that Admech are surprisingly good at C+C? Am I mad?
We played a second game, and I swapped him out for 2 ruststalkers and another vanguard with rad carbine and I got trounced. My logic was that more bodies would be better, as I just couldn't kill the hordes of guard fast enough in the last game to really get an edge - victory was won at the last second with a bit of lucky shooting, and I felt like I was struggling to claim any areas of the board outside of my deployment zone.
Game 2 my guys just got shot to bits turn 1. A few unlucky rolls, but I just couldn't kill fast enough to neutralize any special weapons.
Conclusion? UR-025 is pretty gud. 9/10 didn't get to power claw anyone.
(for future reference, how do you all play him? Feel like maybe I should charge him at enemy stuff, and get in as close as possible, but it seems hella risky when he has no cover, even with all those wounds + regen? As I say, I spent most of the game parked on an objective, semi-obscured waiting for the shooting phase so I could use the assault cannon to mincemeat another guardsman)
I use him (it?) generally as bait and objective camper, occasionally as a linebreaker, bottleneck plug and I often charge at people when necessary. A2 4+ to hit power claw isn't the most reliable thing.
A good tactic is to give it a lvl up and the suppressor skill. Use with double shooting and now you can suppress entire groups of enemies, landing a wound here and there too. 8 shots in total is nothing to scoff at, especially when it makes enemies shoot worse, without even hitting them..
I have a hilarious experience though. It got charged by a plaguemarine with some power sword. Overwatch missed, he landed 2 wounds. I passed all (2) 6+ armor saves and then crushed the plaguemarine with the claw in return.
This is what I thought of.
Last two games, it got killed by a Tau stealth suit fusion gun and next game by a plaguelauncher. I guess I have to be more cautious with it. It's not invincible.
What are your thoughts on the Corpuscarii and Fulgurite Electro-Priests in kill team?
I never played then in 40k, never seen then played. On paper, they seem not that bad, with 5+FnP and ability to get 3++.
Also, I'm kinda disappointed, as other factions got terminators or other though units and we just two T3 6+Sv dudes. I was expecting Kataphrons instead.
I think the Fulgurites may be really good and allow us to deal with T4-T5 more effectively in CC, with a little bit of AP and D3 damage. It still sucks that the ruling of mortal wounds make it so that 1 or 3 mortal wounds inflicted at once just inflict one Trauma roll because I'd rather have my opponent roll 3 dice than just inflict a mortal wound for it to be saved.
Corpuscarii I'm not convinced, 12" is very short in range, and we already have some weapon with no AP and high RoF like Radium Carbines and Flechette Blasters.
I have an upcoming campaign with the release of killteam, only played a little bit at release, so any help appreciated.
20 men unit rost and games will be played at 125 points, we can choose if we want to have a commander, we can pay points to upgrade our units from day 1.
1.) Are commanders worth it, if so which ones and which specialization?
2.) What is REALLY good, whats REALLY bad, and what is situationally good?
3.) Any good combos and synergies with the help of leveling up, anything worth to upgrade?
I know we create teams accodingly to the mission, but want to know some good go to teams.
My Ideas:
A) Enginseer with FNP bubble, generating command points and a lot of plasma skitarii without specializations, but able to reroll ones with the veteran skill, costing +1 point, one is sniper so I dont have to pay extra.
B) Both Princeps did me well in past games, maybe an electropriest will swap for the ruststalker?
C) 2 man Sniper Team that everyone loves, if terrain and mission allows it.
I'm gonna give a shoutout to Infiltrators, especially with the flechette blaster, as they're right killy, especially if you can get them up close, and they're pretty flexible - they've got a lot of movement, so you can just hurl one off at an exposed flank across the board, use the movement strategem and almost be down your opponent's throat with a pretty dangerous guy, or team a few up and create a real high-threat offensive bloc. I remember my Skitarii alpha was also a real winner, and will probably be the kind of unit your opponent will underestimate, which lets you get him into CC where he can really shine.
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