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Post by: Paintalist
The new edition of the Lord of the Rings tabletop is just a few weeks away. It is called Middle Earth: the Strategy Battle Game and the LotR miniatures will return to GW and retailer stores. It seems so that GW remembered that they also had a 3rd game on the shelfs next to 40k and AoS. 
I want to use this thread to collect any information regarding Middle Earth: the Strategy Battle Game, discussing the game or answer questions. Everyone is invited to post content here if it is related to Middle Earth: the Strategy Battle Game.
It is one thread to bind them all.... 
Soon you will find those fancy boxes in your local GW or FLGS
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Post by: Inquisitor Gideon
I'll post some army pics later on today when I get back onto my main PC.
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Post by: Slinky
Here are a few LOTR figures I have painted recently - I've been working through the old Journey Books putting together the models and terrain needed for each scenario.
Soon I might even start playing them
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Post by: judgedoug
So the big, relevant info is:
Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game is the official new title for Lord of the Rings / The Hobbit Strategy Battle Game. The main rulebook contains updated SBG rules. The first supplement is Armies of Lord of the Rings which contain all the army lists and profiles for every LOTR figure and army. Later on, Armies of The Hobbit will be released, and contain the same, but for The Hobbit.
GW renewed their license for, I think they mentioned, a decade.
GW has monthly releases planned for SBG through the end of 2020.
The plastic Theoden sculpt is the first in a new series of new plastic kits.
Boxes are being rebranded and prices adjusted (infantry doubling count and going down in price, monster kits going down, some cavalry going up).
The relaunch is set for September 1. The kits in the free standing display unit are the ones ones 100% confirmed with the rebranding and rebox for retail distribution.
GW has like a thousand molds for metal LOTR figures. their current warehouse/production/inventory system is incapable of bringing all those models back in production, so they will be cycling sets into production for a few months and then cycling those out and cycling new sets in, repeat.
They also plan to do some runs of Made To Order models for alternate oop poses of models that are available already (so, alternate Aragorns, Faramir, etc)
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Post by: Ghaz
I'm surprised they didn't wait a few more weeks and release on the 22nd instead of the 1st, since it's the birthday of both Bilbo and Frodo 
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Post by: durecellrabbit
Is there a recommended way of army expansion? Should you focus on one specific faction or get a mixture of themed allies like the first rerelease of boxed sets would allow.
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Post by: Inquisitor Gideon
So a couple of army shots and some random bits and pieces. Really need to get around to taking pics of my Minas Tirith, Isengard and Easterlings soon.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
I love seeing this thread, and an engaged community.
The raw, uncontrollable hype of the game returning, and local players asking me to run the game again got me to pull the trigger on an uncomfortably expensive Iron Hills Dwarf army from Forge World.
While I am waiting for it to arrive, i'm FINALLY going to sit down a paint a box of Minis Tirith Knights i've been sitting on forever, alongside the White Tower mounted Boromir!
94028
Post by: Paintalist
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:I love seeing this thread, and an engaged community.
The raw, uncontrollable hype of the game returning, and local players asking me to run the game again got me to pull the trigger on an uncomfortably expensive Iron Hills Dwarf army from Forge World.
While I am waiting for it to arrive, I'm FINALLY going to sit down a paint a box of Minis Tirith Knights i've been sitting on forever, alongside the White Tower mounted Boromir!
I really got hit by the hype train. I have bought 20 Uruk Hai & 1 shaman. The next step is to remove the paint off my 14 years old Uruk-hai Captain, 4 Berzerkers, and Lurtz. This will be the first force I'll paint and then buy the new starter set. Manly to have to playable forces to grab a friend and play. It is really hard to promote LotR in a pure 40k community :(
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Post by: ZergSmasher
I don't have any pics, but I've got a pretty decent collection of LotR stuff that's been sitting in my closet gathering dust for years. Much of it is still on the sprues, as with no one around to play against I had little motivation to get the stuff painted. For funsies I'll go ahead and list what I have (I'd have to look again to be absolutely sure):
GOOD:
Dwarves:
Dain Ironfoot, King Under the Mountain
Balin
Dwarf Captain
Dwarf Shieldbearer
Warrior with Banner
Warrior with Horn
3 Iron Guard
12 Warriors
24 Rangers
Gondor:
Faramir Foot & Mounted
Denethor
24 Warriors of Minas Tirith
6 Knights of Minas Tirith
Elves:
Haldir
Wood Elf Captain
Wood Elf Warrior with Banner
24 Wood Elves
12 Galadhrim Warriors
In addition to these, I also have the plastic Fellowship of the Ring from the Mines of Moria box, and 24 Rangers of Middle Earth
EVIL:
Moria:
Moria Goblin Shaman
4 Moria Goblin Prowlers
36 Moria Goblins
1 plastic Cave Troll
1 metal Cave Troll with Spear
Easterlings:
Khamul the Easterling Foot & Mounted (lost pieces of the horse, though  )
20 Easterling Warriors
5 Easterling Kataphracts
Mordor:
The Shadow Lord Foot & Mounted
1 metal Ringwraith Foot & Mounted
9 finecast Ringwraiths on foot
Spider Queen & Swarms
4 Giant Spiders
24 Mordor Orcs
1 Mordor Troll
I've got a decent amount of rank and file troops, but few elite troops and far too few leaders, especially on the Evil side (unless you count all those Nazgul). Something for me to work on if and when I get back to the game, which will depend on if a community develops for it.
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Post by: Snrub
 judgedoug wrote:GW has like a thousand molds for metal LOTR figures. their current warehouse/production/inventory system is incapable of bringing all those models back in production, so they will be cycling sets into production for a few months and then cycling those out and cycling new sets in, repeat.
That's a good way of doing it. Hopefully it won't just be a single cycle and if you miss they're gone again. A thousand moulds is a lot to get through though.
They also plan to do some runs of Made To Order models for alternate oop poses of models that are available already (so, alternate Aragorns, Faramir, etc)
Excellent. There's a few sculpts I missed that i'd like to get my hands on. LotR is one of those things where i'd like to all of the sculpts of everyone. Doubles, triples, quintuples, doesn't matter how man iterations a character has, I need them all!
I'll have to dig out my collection. It's hidden away somewhere. Lots to strip and repaint.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
I'd definitely love to see some of the rare sculpts come back in batches. Obviously anyone who wants to play Gimli in their list has numerous cheap ways to get him, for example, and I respect that for the health of the game. But, sometimes you just want a particular version for your own enjoyment.
I know they aren't super rare, but stuff like Gimli on dead Uruk, or Pellenor Fields Legolas are my favorite sculpts of those characters.
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Post by: judgedoug
 Paintalist wrote:NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:I love seeing this thread, and an engaged community.
The raw, uncontrollable hype of the game returning, and local players asking me to run the game again got me to pull the trigger on an uncomfortably expensive Iron Hills Dwarf army from Forge World.
While I am waiting for it to arrive, I'm FINALLY going to sit down a paint a box of Minis Tirith Knights i've been sitting on forever, alongside the White Tower mounted Boromir!
I really got hit by the hype train. I have bought 20 Uruk Hai & 1 shaman. The next step is to remove the paint off my 14 years old Uruk-hai Captain, 4 Berzerkers, and Lurtz. This will be the first force I'll paint and then buy the new starter set. Manly to have to playable forces to grab a friend and play. It is really hard to promote LotR in a pure 40k community :(
Psst you _need_ Uruk Scouts and Mauhur. Just sayin'. Time to fire up an order with GW.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Incidentally, since Doug's post reminded me... How long do people find it takes to get a response from Ministomp? I've not heard anything back after two days of asking for quotes on prices.
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Post by: eohall
How "your dudes" can you make ME:SBG? I am interested in the game, but I find named characters really unsatisfying to play with - rubs me the wrong way. Is it easy to make "generic" leaders/wizards/whatever, or are you pretty locked into book characters?
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Post by: Inquisitor Gideon
You want Battle Companies. Which is essentailly your warband that levels up, gains unique abilities, equipment etc.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Also, another option is to play the full game using "Captains" which every army has access too. There's almost always cheap, generic heroes available.
They won't always be great choices, but they do exist, and functionally leave you a ton more points to take as bodies.
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
I can strongly recommend Battle Companies - spent all day playing today and it's great fun.
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Post by: Paintalist
judgedoug wrote: Paintalist wrote:NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:I love seeing this thread, and an engaged community.
The raw, uncontrollable hype of the game returning, and local players asking me to run the game again got me to pull the trigger on an uncomfortably expensive Iron Hills Dwarf army from Forge World.
While I am waiting for it to arrive, I'm FINALLY going to sit down a paint a box of Minis Tirith Knights i've been sitting on forever, alongside the White Tower mounted Boromir!
I really got hit by the hype train. I have bought 20 Uruk Hai & 1 shaman. The next step is to remove the paint off my 14 years old Uruk-hai Captain, 4 Berzerkers, and Lurtz. This will be the first force I'll paint and then buy the new starter set. Manly to have to playable forces to grab a friend and play. It is really hard to promote LotR in a pure 40k community :(
Psst you _need_ Uruk Scouts and Mauhur. Just sayin'. Time to fire up an order with GW.
The benefits for taking Mauhur and Uruk scouts are really great, but just for the cinematic purpose I like to see scouts lead by Lurtz (even if it is not competitive)
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Post by: Paintalist
Some new goodies are coming along the box set.
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
I'm so hyped for this, I spent so much time playing this game back when I first got into the hobby. Who remembers the Battle Games in Middle Earth magazine?
Do we have any idea how much the new boxes are gonna cost? Particularly the Pelennor Fields one?
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Pelennor Fields is $160 US... so whatever your Soul Wars, 8th Ed 40k two-player box, etc... cost.
Doug mathed it out, and it may literally be the best deal GW has ever offered. Its something like $360 worth of stuff, for something discounters will be selling for $130-ish.
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Post by: judgedoug
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Pelennor Fields is $160 US... so whatever your Soul Wars, 8th Ed 40k two-player box, etc... cost.
Doug mathed it out, and it may literally be the best deal GW has ever offered. Its something like $360 worth of stuff, for something discounters will be selling for $130-ish.
MSRP was leaked in GW email at $150, so it's an even better deal.
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
judgedoug wrote:NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Pelennor Fields is $160 US... so whatever your Soul Wars, 8th Ed 40k two-player box, etc... cost.
Doug mathed it out, and it may literally be the best deal GW has ever offered. Its something like $360 worth of stuff, for something discounters will be selling for $130-ish.
MSRP was leaked in GW email at $150, so it's an even better deal.
Oh man, as if I wasn't sold already! 
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
That is a maniacally good deal... I've got more than enough Rohan and Mordor stuff, yet I'm still so tempted to buy it anyway. Oh, my poor poor bank account!
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
I really regret selling all my LOTR minis back in something like 2006/7.. but I had fallen out with the hobby at that point. I must have had just about everything the evil side had released 
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
I know that feeling - I sold off a bunch of Easterling and Harad stuff - really regret that now!
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:I know that feeling - I sold off a bunch of Easterling and Harad stuff - really regret that now!
There's only one option.. Rebuild!
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
Way ahead of you on that one!
Luckily, I kept the Mumakil and a few other bits and pieces, so I didn't need to do much more than pick up a few basic troop boxes to rebuild. Incidentally, I have to say that the cavalry (Cataphracts and Harad Raiders) are really, really nice kits - leagues ahead of the outdated ROR or KOMT kits in terms of options and sculpting - I'm almost tempted to do a full Fallen Kingdoms cavalry army (with a Mumak), just for fun...
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Post by: Momotaro
 eohall wrote:How "your dudes" can you make ME:SBG? I am interested in the game, but I find named characters really unsatisfying to play with - rubs me the wrong way. Is it easy to make "generic" leaders/wizards/whatever, or are you pretty locked into book characters?
Just give the characters a new name and backstory, and convert some models. Make sure everyone is clear what the model represents. My dwarf characters are the royal brothers Kveldulf and Kvitebjørn, a dwarf warden team converted into a hammer-wielder and an axe-and-shield fighter. They just coincidentally happen to have the stats of certain named characters ;-) Their sister Seiðari the loremistress is a Hasslefree sculpt.
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Post by: MangoMadness
 Momotaro wrote: eohall wrote:How "your dudes" can you make ME:SBG? I am interested in the game, but I find named characters really unsatisfying to play with - rubs me the wrong way. Is it easy to make "generic" leaders/wizards/whatever, or are you pretty locked into book characters?
Just give the characters a new name and backstory, and convert some models. Make sure everyone is clear what the model represents.
Not wanting to speak for eohall but I think he is asking whether he has to use heroes at all or can he use generic sgt/leaders for the warbands.
I have always disliked characterhammer and much prefer to play with generic infantry and creatures led by minor generic characters rather than super hero unbeatable "insert named character here" and from what I have read you can easily play that way in ME SBG but whether it is competitive or not I do not know. The named characters do seem to be very high points cost though so maybe they are relatively balanced from a gameplay point of view.
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Post by: Ancestral Hamster
Is this new Pelennor Fields box a starter for the scenario-driven game (where you replayed stuff from the Jackson films) or the build your own army game?
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Post by: Slinky
 Ancestral Hamster wrote: Is this new Pelennor Fields box a starter for the scenario-driven game (where you replayed stuff from the Jackson films) or the build your own army game?
Pretty sure it's both. The same ruleset under pins both ways of playing. The armies of lotr book will have army list s, not sure what scenarios will be included in these books though. More details soon, hopefully...
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Post by: durecellrabbit
 durecellrabbit wrote:Is there a recommended way of army expansion? Should you focus on one specific faction or get a mixture of themed allies like the first rerelease of boxed sets would allow.
Asking again. For adding to your army should you go for more of the Mordor/Rohan in the starter set, add Haradrim /Minas Tirith that are coming out along side the starter or is either okay?
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Post by: MangoMadness
durecellrabbit wrote: durecellrabbit wrote:Is there a recommended way of army expansion? Should you focus on one specific faction or get a mixture of themed allies like the first rerelease of boxed sets would allow.
Asking again. For adding to your army should you go for more of the Mordor/Rohan in the starter set, add Haradrim /Minas Tirith that are coming out along side the starter or is either okay?
It would depend if they change the army building rules in the new edition so until that is viewed noone can say for certain.
People seem to be expecting a 'minimal change' edition but who knows at this stage
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Post by: BigDaddio
Are we sure about the MSRP of the new Pelennor Fields set? I'm starting to hear it will be around $80-90 USD. There's even a reliable local game store that advertised it as $82.50 retail on their FB page (I've asked them if they are certain, but no response yet). I'm inclined to think it will be as previously mentioned in this thread, about $150.00 USD, but if it's somehow less I will be ecstatic.
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Post by: Hanskrampf
BigDaddio wrote:Are we sure about the MSRP of the new Pelennor Fields set? I'm starting to hear it will be around $80-90 USD. There's even a reliable local game store that advertised it as $82.50 retail on their FB page (I've asked them if they are certain, but no response yet). I'm inclined to think it will be as previously mentioned in this thread, about $150.00 USD, but if it's somehow less I will be ecstatic.
That pricepoint would be insane.
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Post by: Lum
I might really bite this one. I started ages ago with the bi-weekly magazine and had a quite sizeable Gondor army, but I always loved the Rohirrim more than anything. Shame the horse's legs were so fething fragile, I believe every single horse broke at their ankle
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Post by: judgedoug
BigDaddio wrote:Are we sure about the MSRP of the new Pelennor Fields set? I'm starting to hear it will be around $80-90 USD. There's even a reliable local game store that advertised it as $82.50 retail on their FB page (I've asked them if they are certain, but no response yet). I'm inclined to think it will be as previously mentioned in this thread, about $150.00 USD, but if it's somehow less I will be ecstatic.
If you don't like the people at that LGS, you can feel free to call 'em morons. If you do like 'em, you can politely inform them that they just posted the RETAILER TRADE COST, ie, what they are paying for the box set from GW, and they they should probably take that down.
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Post by: Phobos
I remember when this first came out back in 2001 or so you could find the starter boxes at Barnes and Noble of all places.
For some reason I never bought a copy then. I don't know why. I will get one this time around though.
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Post by: BigDaddio
judgedoug wrote:BigDaddio wrote:Are we sure about the MSRP of the new Pelennor Fields set? I'm starting to hear it will be around $80-90 USD. There's even a reliable local game store that advertised it as $82.50 retail on their FB page (I've asked them if they are certain, but no response yet). I'm inclined to think it will be as previously mentioned in this thread, about $150.00 USD, but if it's somehow less I will be ecstatic.
If you don't like the people at that LGS, you can feel free to call 'em morons. If you do like 'em, you can politely inform them that they just posted the RETAILER TRADE COST, ie, what they are paying for the box set from GW, and they they should probably take that down.
Yeah, I was wondering if that might be the case.
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Post by: judgedoug
Well, wonder no longer
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Post by: godswildcard
I'm selling off my Imperial Knight project army to make sure I've got enough to get the box and some other goodies when the game releases. I will be at Nova, so their vendors may run out of all of the sweet Rohan and Minas Morgul stuff.
Seriously can't wait.
Edit:
For those that know, are there only the 4 Black Guard of Barad Dur sculpts + the command set? I'd like to add some to the Morannon Orcs in the starter, but wanted to see how much variety there was in the models.
At any rate, I may go ahead and start buying some Modor/ Minas Morgul and Rohan stuff to, you know, prepare or something.
Edit #2:
It seems as though the box set gives a decent start to a WoTR force too. Unless my math is wrong (it very well may be), it gives you 550 points for Rohan + the army of the dead and 505 points for Minas Morgul
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Post by: judgedoug
 godswildcard wrote:
For those that know, are there only the 4 Black Guard of Barad Dur sculpts + the command set? I'd like to add some to the Morannon Orcs in the starter, but wanted to see how much variety there was in the models.
At any rate, I may go ahead and start buying some Modor/ Minas Morgul and Rohan stuff to, you know, prepare or something.
The sculpts are: Black Guard Captain, Black Guard Banner Bearer, Black Guard Drummer, and three Black Guad warrior poses. The Finecast sets repeat a pose.
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Post by: godswildcard
judgedoug wrote:
The sculpts are: Black Guard Captain, Black Guard Banner Bearer, Black Guard Drummer, and three Black Guad warrior poses. The Finecast sets repeat a pose.
Thanks Doug!
That’s a bit of a bummer. I’ll still pick up the commanders and one set of grunts to add to the army. At least I only *need* one company for WoTR. I’m hoping that I can get a dedicated group going in my area with this release, as I’d love to get more WoTR in!
Edit:
I will admit I was a little surprised that there weren’t any categories for LoTR for Armies on Parade this year, despite the new box set and the (hopefully) new interest in generates. I know that there weren’t any categories last year for it, but I was hopeful for this year. It seems like once again it’s 40K/ AoS only though.
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Post by: Zenithfleet
Fruitless did I call the victory of the Dark Lord Kirby?
Not wholly so, yet it did not achieve its end.
The playerbase was diminished, but not destroyed.
The moulds were packed away, but not unmade.
The Battle-Game was scorned and mocked, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of Tolkien and Jackson*, and they will endure.
*(and Priestley, and Cavatore, and Troke and Ward, and the Perrys, and...)
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
Do you guys think they'll release Start Collecting sets like they have with 40k and AOS?
As tempting as the Pelennor Fields set is and how good value for money it's looking to be, I've realised I'd only be buying it for the bad guys
If there was a Start Collecting type box, I'd probably go for that and just buy the rules separate.
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Post by: Snrub
That's an interesting one.
As far as I can tell all the 40k/Fantasy SC kits are all entirely plastic. The only plastic kits LotR has are infantry and cavalry. Commanders, war machines and majority of the monsters are all resin. The only plastic monsters I could find were the Mumak, winged Nazgul, Balrog, Mordor/Isenguard Troll and the generic Ent.
So I think it will depend on if they are prepared to put resin kits in a box set or not. That is unless they redo at least the command units in plastic.
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Post by: Azreal13
The new Theoden is plastic of course, with a promise that others will follow, so it still remains a thing that could happen.
The issue will be that things generally only make their way into SC boxes once they're past their first flush of sales. So the time taken for the heroes to get released, their sales tail off, then the SC has to get released probably means that the timetable is fairly lengthy.
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
It would be nice to have a discounted bundle, but Snrub may be right - am I right in saying most "Start Collecting " have a Troop, A cavalry equivalent, and one big centerpiece unit?
I'd think GW might struggle to fill that out with some Armies...
Gondor - No monsters really fit, so perhaps a Trebuchet?
Rohan - Maybe an Ent would fit? But it's a bit of a tenuous link.
Elves (Wood elves and High Elves) - Giant Eagles, maybe would be the best fit, but again, a bit of a reach.
Dwarves - Like Gondor, I think it would have to be a siege weapon of some type, like the Dwarf Ballista?
Mordor has a tonne of Monsters - Trolls, Fell Beasts, easy.
Harad - The Mumak would be a the only really appropriate inclusion, though it is a VERY big kit, so box space may be an issue.
Easterlings - Fell Beast, I would say - maybe add a Khamul upgrade sprue, so you can have him on Fell Beast?
Khand - Plastic chariot? maybe one with rules that don't suck?
Moria... this would be tricky. Cave troll? Not much of a box filler, and pretty small for a centerpiece - they're not really that big - The Balrog IS big, but you'd never really want to buy more than one. Maybe multiple Cave trolls? 2 in a box, maybe?
Isengard - Siege Ballista. Maybe an Isengard troll, but I'd say that the Ballista is more Iconic.
I don't really go into the newer hobbit armies, but I'd imagine the options are similar - Good guys are limited to Eagles or maybe something like Beorn, while evil is easier - trolls etc.
It's a fun thought experiment though
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Post by: judgedoug
The only fully plastic Start Collecting! I could see based on current plastics would be Mirkwood, with Legolas and Tauriel and Mirkwood Rangers and Palace Guard all being in plastic.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
judgedoug wrote:The only fully plastic Start Collecting! I could see based on current plastics would be Mirkwood, with Legolas and Tauriel and Mirkwood Rangers and Palace Guard all being in plastic.
You stop! I just ordered those, all at the current icky Mirkwood Ranger prices... (Boxes of ten... pfffffft)
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Post by: godswildcard
I don’t necessarily see why LoTR start collecting boxes would have to follow the exact same plan as the other systems.
Plastic monsters are cool to the factions that have them, but I’d be just as happy with a good mix of troop types in each box, plus a plastic character. My thinking is more based off ‘it sure would be nice to see some of the cooler/ rarer minis recast in plastic’. That said, I’d be just as happy if they threw in some of the metal/ finecast minis.
Say a Rohan box with Riders, Warriors and Some Royal Guard.
Or a Gondor box with Warriors, Knights and Osgiliath Veterans.
Or an easterling box with Warriors, Kataphracts and Serpent Warriors (do I have that right?).
I guess my point is that they have options and they wouldn’t necessarily have to follow the same trends that they’ve got going with 40K or AoS. They could really break the mold a bit and I think it would work.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
That's true - something more along the lines of basic troop/cavalry/elite troop would make sense.
What I'd really like to see is the command sets made cheaper to get - £24 for 4 (finecast) models is, personally, hard to justify a purchase. If they re-did them in plastic, or included parts for command options in the basic troop box, that would be even better, in my view.
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Post by: judgedoug
With the news that there will be new plastic kits and that there will be at least one new release per month, I could easily see that on some months the New Plastic Kit is a Hero or HQ sprue and accompanied by a Faction Starter
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
Hmm, interesting theories guys!
I'll probably hold off on buying anything LOTR related for a bit longer than I had planned to see if any sort of SC or faction starter sets get announced.
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Post by: judgedoug
 ErkyTimbers wrote:Hmm, interesting theories guys!
I'll probably hold off on buying anything LOTR related for a bit longer than I had planned to see if any sort of SC or faction starter sets get announced.
I honestly think it won't happen. SBG is far cheaper per-model than 40k or AOS; a "Start Collecting" for SBG would basically be most of an entire army versus 40k or AOS where as SC is just a single cornerstone of an army.
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
Very true, but I still think I'll hold off a little bit. I might just end up getting the minis I want and the rules separate, unless I can find anyone who'd want to pay part of the cost and take the good forces from the boxset. No luck convincing my friends yet though.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Can I just chime in and say holy crap... do I both love and fear painting SBG models. :-p
I'm getting around to beloved models that I loved playing, but never painted... and for a guy with a disability, who prides himself on being a surprisingly solid painter... the nerve needed to paint tiny Boromir's tinier mustache, was intense. :-p
I have no idea how I see some of this beautifully painted SBG models with magnificent eyes, when i'm already proud of being able to paint some hair-thin straps, etc... :-p
True 28mm is CRAZY after getting used to 40k/AoS scale-bloated madness...
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Post by: godswildcard
Loving the previews coming from Warhammer Fest.
More pics of plastic Theoden:
Hurin and Ingold (bare resin):
Hurin and Ingold (painted):
Love....these....models.
I hope I can buy many of them at Nova...
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Post by: ErkyTimbers
Wow, those are impressive! I didn't expect the jump in quality from the old models to be quite that drastic. Can't wait to see more!
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
I like that Theoden is wielding his sword in his left hand - a nice nod to Bernard Hill, who played him in the films and is left-handed.
The Theoden on foot model does look a touch doughy around the middle, but he's much better than those forgeworld Dol-Guldur Nazgul with their stumpy legs and gorilla arms.
I'm not sure about the Gondorians yet - I think with a naturalistic "LOTR-appropriate" paintjob they'll look good - in bare plastic, I think facial features and hair have a slightly cartoony/animesque quality that reads as more AoS or 40k style.
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Post by: Snrub
Reposting this from the N&R thread.
 reds8n wrote:via FB, allegedly from someone/people who were at Ardacon
NEW LOTR SBG CHANGES
-All profiles changed completely
-Tweaks to magic
-New Heroic actions
-Buidling armies radically changed
-Army special rules
-Warriors of Rohan don't change
-Minas tirith warriors gain shield wall
-New one profile Elrond
-Balrog changed and according to comments by Jay Clare seemingly competitive
-All models now have keywords
-Some special rules will only follow other warriors with similar keywords, elf standfast effecting elves but not humans/
-Heroic Tiers
-Theoden is a hero of legend
-Heroes of legend are meant to lead armies.
-Warband size 18 , and additional rule for courage, if you have a Hero of legend, on a turn you would test for courage all in the force pass*
-Universal heroic actions (move,shoot,combat)
-Specialized heroic actions only certain characters can do.
-Captains may lose the ability to do certain special strikes
-New actions - Heroic Resolve, Heroic Strength, Heroic Challenge, Heroic Defense (Model only wounded on natural 6's)
-Magic, all spells re balanced, all powers in main book and all have a channeled version
-Sorcerous blast will now stop after the target model makes first contact
-New spell, Protection of the valor, caster or friend within three inches cannot be target by spells, the channeled version of this is all friendlily within three
-Ally Matrix
-Historical alliances , Impossible alliances.
-Confirmed army bonus's, Rohan- +1 strength to cav on the charge.
Ents- Fearless, Immune to all move impeding effects and some magic.
Harad- 50% bows still good, warriors and raiders get poison rule on main melee weapon
Mordor- +1 courage, reroll ones when outnumber opponent
-Special strike, tinkered with.
-New Theoden profile, M6,F5/4, S4,D5,A2,W2,C5 3 might and will 1 fate
-Questions from the Q&A
-Armies of the hobbit coming soon.
-Banishment spell available for more then just galadrial
-Sap will harder to cast
-Nazgul changing
-Everyarmy is a viable option.
-Every profile has weapons assigned to them! (Now more Galadrial with axe)
- Hurls now throw the model DIRECTLY AWAY.
- Army of the dead a viable solo army (via rules like the denizens of mirlwood list)
-Warrior upgrades still around and new ones added
-Eagles a lot better, arguably better then fellbeasts
-Throwing weapons no more -1 when throwing on the charge
-Character upgrades for models apply to only those in warband (redshields etc)
Do we know who these new miniatures are sculpted by? Whoever it is did a fantastic job on Theoden.
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Post by: Oppl
Dark Apostle 666 wrote:I like that Theoden is wielding his sword in his left hand - a nice nod to Bernard Hill, who played him in the films and is left-handed.
The Theoden on foot model does look a touch doughy around the middle, but he's much better than those forgeworld Dol-Guldur Nazgul with their stumpy legs and gorilla arms.
I'm not sure about the Gondorians yet - I think with a naturalistic "LOTR-appropriate" paintjob they'll look good - in bare plastic, I think facial features and hair have a slightly cartoony/animesque quality that reads as more AoS or 40k style.
Exactly my opinion too. They're well done models for sure, but I'm not really getting the right vibe and I don't think they'll fit in too well with the old Perry sculpts. The Ingold (shield dude?) looks good and will fit in leading a band of WoMT, but after seeing the painted version of the mounted guy I probably won't be adding foot or mounted versions to my army. They just don't fit the established aesthetic to me. Great sculpts though!
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Post by: Inquisitor Gideon
I'll disagree about Húrin. His armour is a slightly more ornate version of the Citadel Guard, he'll fit in perfectly with them. Pretty much perfect for the Warden of the Keys.
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Post by: Prestor Jon
judgedoug wrote: ErkyTimbers wrote:Hmm, interesting theories guys!
I'll probably hold off on buying anything LOTR related for a bit longer than I had planned to see if any sort of SC or faction starter sets get announced.
I honestly think it won't happen. SBG is far cheaper per-model than 40k or AOS; a "Start Collecting" for SBG would basically be most of an entire army versus 40k or AOS where as SC is just a single cornerstone of an army.
While they may not release SC sets for SBG hopefully they'll at least rerelease all or most of the old box sets. I would like to get a full unit of the Dunlendings, when they're not raiding the Westfold they'll double as Jomsvikings.
It would also be great if they released a set of all the Numenor models or at least the spearmen and archers together since the swordsmen are comingled on the alliance sprue with elves.
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Post by: judgedoug
 Snrub wrote:Do we know who these new miniatures are sculpted by? Whoever it is did a fantastic job on Theoden.
I forget his name, but he, along with the rest of the Middle-earth GW/ FW team, participate actively on the Great British Hobbit League facebook page. Automatically Appended Next Post: Prestor Jon wrote:While they may not release SC sets for SBG hopefully they'll at least rerelease all or most of the old box sets. I would like to get a full unit of the Dunlendings, when they're not raiding the Westfold they'll double as Jomsvikings.
It would also be great if they released a set of all the Numenor models or at least the spearmen and archers together since the swordsmen are comingled on the alliance sprue with elves.
I am highly confident the Warriors of Dunland with Bows will come back in production (the normal warriors are still available), but I highly doubt that GW will ever release anything to retail again that is not plastic. All metal, finecast, and fw resin will be direct order only.
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Post by: Prestor Jon
judgedoug wrote: Snrub wrote:Do we know who these new miniatures are sculpted by? Whoever it is did a fantastic job on Theoden.
I forget his name, but he, along with the rest of the Middle-earth GW/ FW team, participate actively on the Great British Hobbit League facebook page.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:While they may not release SC sets for SBG hopefully they'll at least rerelease all or most of the old box sets. I would like to get a full unit of the Dunlendings, when they're not raiding the Westfold they'll double as Jomsvikings.
It would also be great if they released a set of all the Numenor models or at least the spearmen and archers together since the swordsmen are comingled on the alliance sprue with elves.
I am highly confident the Warriors of Dunland with Bows will come back in production (the normal warriors are still available), but I highly doubt that GW will ever release anything to retail again that is not plastic. All metal, finecast, and fw resin will be direct order only.
The GW webstore only has the hand weapon warriors, no two handed axes. The command group hasn't been available in a long time as well and even Thrydan Wolfsbane is gone from the webstore now. Hopefully all the warriors and the command become available again as I'd like to run a GW legal warband that can also ally with my Uruk Hai for bigger games. Worst case I'll just keep using Gripping Beast and Warlord models as proxies.
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Post by: Polonius
Yeah, some of the human models can be so easily approximated with third party stuff, especially since LOTR is closer to true 28mm. I've been eyeing Conquest Games Normans for gondor fiefdom troops, or the gripping beasts plastics for Rohavnion/dunlanding/outer fiefdoms.
I want to build a nice gondorian army, so I'm hoping they cycle those kits through.
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Post by: Snrub
judgedoug wrote:I forget his name, but he, along with the rest of the Middle-earth GW/ FW team, participate actively on the Great British Hobbit League facebook page.
Thanks, I'll check it out.
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Post by: charlest
Quick question (I know some is unknown but maybe educated guesses can be made).
Is the Battle of Pelennor Fields enough stuff for a real go at the game? Meaning, if that was pretty much all I bought, would this game be satisfying beyond just a couple of plays? I'm having a hard time figuring out what a typical size model count is for this game.
I'm asking more from a casual angle. I play Kill Team and Gaslands very casually, and we mostly do board games, but I wouldn't mind having this and grabbing just a touch of fantasy terrain to battle it out every once in awhile. It would replace Saga for me, which I used to play a bit and still have some Saxons which may fit in with the Gondorians.
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Post by: Polonius
Most LOTR warbands I've seen have had a few more characters than the box set provides (essentially one nazgul and theoden), but with some simple conversion you could make captains of rohan out of riders.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
 Polonius wrote:Most LOTR warbands I've seen have had a few more characters than the box set provides (essentially one nazgul and theoden), but with some simple conversion you could make captains of rohan out of riders.
So, you get roughly 650pts per side in the new box, which is a very normal, "full" sized game. Also with Heroes of Legend having larger warbands, they're legal, albeit unoptimized lists. Short version, its an amazing starter.
Edit: BTW Charlest... Gaslands... Saga... Middle-Earth? You don't happen to game at Mythicos do you? I only ask because i'm doing Middle-Earth tutorials this weekend.
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Post by: charlest
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Polonius wrote:Most LOTR warbands I've seen have had a few more characters than the box set provides (essentially one nazgul and theoden), but with some simple conversion you could make captains of rohan out of riders.
So, you get roughly 650pts per side in the new box, which is a very normal, "full" sized game. Also with Heroes of Legend having larger warbands, they're legal, albeit unoptimized lists. Short version, its an amazing starter.
Edit: BTW Charlest... Gaslands... Saga... Middle-Earth? You don't happen to game at Mythicos do you? I only ask because i'm doing Middle-Earth tutorials this weekend.
Nope. I haven't played Saga in forever. Just playing Gaslands and Kill Team every once in awhile now.
Having to buy a few characters down the line isn't bad at all. I was more worried with having to purchase entire new unit boxes.
More questions - what about table size. I don't have a mat or any fantasy terrain and we game at my place. Do I need 6'x3'? The back of the Pelennor Fields box shows just a few barren trees scattered for terrain, is something like that good enough?
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
4x4 is the "standard" and honestly, several of the scenarios would probably work just fine on 4x3 if you fiddle with them.
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Post by: Dark Apostle 666
I play on a 4x4, and to be honest, that's plenty of space until you get up into the big, 1000+ point battles that take a whole day to play - for standard or lower points, say 500 and under, you might really be able to get away with smaller tables than that.
One thing I will say, is that for me, terrain makes the game - while it makes sense for the Pelennor fields to be pretty bare, a more populated battlefield makes gameplay more fun, I think. It prevents shooting from being quite so powerful, prevents dull shooting matches, and, obviously, looks good. Obviously, you don't want so much terrain that it makes shooting impossible, or prevents cavalry from having anywhere to maneuver, but for me there's few things better than a table with a good mix of terrain.
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Post by: charlest
Thanks everyone, very useful information.
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Post by: judgedoug
To echo what everyone else has said:
that starter box is basically two complete armies; you will find that you might perhaps want to add Rohan Royal Guard to the Rohan side, or Eomer, or a Banner bearer, because the models are beautiful. Perhaps Gothmog on the Mordor side, Guritz, etc.
4x4 is the standard, sixteen square feet. As most models move 6 inches and cavalry 10 inches, you won't really see 6x4 games at twenty-four square feet, unless there's a HUGE battle.
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Post by: thekingofkings
I use Unreleased miniatures to fill in those GW blanks, 4x4 is good and when doing the pelennor we have a lot of the farms and rammas terrain to fight in.
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Post by: godswildcard
So, now that preorders are up and running, what does everyone feel like is a good way to expand on the box set?
In my mind:
- Morannon Orc Commanders
- Rohan Commanders
- Black Guards of Barad Dur
- Rohan Royal Guard
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Post by: Megalomaniac
I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks
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Post by: godswildcard
 Megalomaniac wrote:I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks
I would personally say fantasy, but it’s an imperfect comparison. The rules are different than other things GW has put out. Much tighter rule set that rewards multiple army builds and play styles. Pick up the starter, you won’t regret it!
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Post by: andyroo9000
Megalomaniac wrote:I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks
Defiantly worth picking up the starter set as its good value for money and you get two nice starter armies with rohan being particularly tasty with the new rules and army bonuses. The basic rules are easy to master and once you've got the hang of it you can start using more of the special strikes, magic and heroic actions. Automatically Appended Next Post: godswildcard wrote:So, now that preorders are up and running, what does everyone feel like is a good way to expand on the box set?
In my mind:
- Morannon Orc Commanders
- Rohan Commanders
- Black Guards of Barad Dur
- Rohan Royal Guard
Ill be picking up some Orc Commanders and Black Guard as I've already got a complete Rohan army. This will be the first time I've used Morannon orcs so I'm just gonna start with a standard army and just make sure I outnumber my opponent to make use of the army bonus.
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Post by: Ketara
Megalomaniac wrote:I've never played this game but thinking about getting into it. Anyone know if the rules are more similar to Fantasy or AoS?
Thanks
Probably more similar to AoS in that it's a skirmish based game, and it has similarities to both in the basic conception of the stat line. But it's overall a much tighter, simpler, and cleaner ruleset than the Warhammer franchise. No armour saves (it's subsumed into the toughness stat), no invulnerables, far fewer special rules as a rule of thumb. It was essentially designed so a bright ten year old could grasp the rules. The more recent additions to heroic actions and weapon types have added a spot of complexity (which I believe is being adjusted in the new edition), but nothing too hard.
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Post by: judgedoug
godswildcard wrote:So, now that preorders are up and running, what does everyone feel like is a good way to expand on the box set?
In my mind:
- Morannon Orc Commanders
- Rohan Commanders
- Black Guards of Barad Dur
- Rohan Royal Guard
That looks great to me, though I would also add a Rohan Captain (comes with foot and mounted in blister) and/or Eomer or Erkenbrand
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Post by: Manchu
No love for Tier 4 Eowyn?
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Post by: Shrapnelsmile
I cannot locate the profiles for Mordor orcs when I looked at the army book today at the shop, and I"m pretty sure I have some. Where are they hiding?
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Post by: Slinky
They are under Barad-Dur, but can also be used in the Mordor list, I believe.
It's a little confusing, and the one thing I have found that I don't like about the Armies of the LOTR book - Shared profiles between army list are not duplicated, so you have to squint at the list of units "this army may take" at the start of each army list.
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Post by: Thargrim
Re branding the game from the hobbit to middle earth sbg was probably a good idea. The hobbit movies weren't regarded too well, and were a serious mess. This stuff is pretty nostalgic to me, I got started in this hobby with the old box of gondor warriors vs the original plastic mordor orcs. My lgs got in a whole stack/rack of this LOTR stuff, and they didn't even get in any adeptus titanicus stuff, and don't carry any necromunda products. So it strangely seems like they want to keep this game alive to some degree, possibly cause they want to keep the license. These are some great models even though they are getting old too. I would actually really consider getting back into this, but my backlog of stuff is so immense...it's truly disturbing.
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Post by: Inquisitor Gideon
So a new article just went up on the community site and Nick Bayton's uruk scouts featured in the attached picture. Can anyone tell me what on earth the converted feral on bottom right is meant to be carrying 
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Post by: Shrapnelsmile
 Slinky wrote:They are under Barad-Dur, but can also be used in the Mordor list, I believe.
It's a little confusing, and the one thing I have found that I don't like about the Armies of the LOTR book - Shared profiles between army list are not duplicated, so you have to squint at the list of units "this army may take" at the start of each army list.
Thanks for the info Slinky. Yes that is frustrating --- so how do you determine when looking at a list of units? Do you have to carefully read the Key Words for each entry, such as Mordor orcs labelled, " Mordor" with a kW even though they are Bardad-Dur?
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Post by: Slinky
At the start of each army entry there is an "army composition" section that lists all the units you can take in that army.
Any that are not in the following pages then have page references to tell you where to find them, so it's not awful, but does mean you can't just flick through the "mordor" pages to get every profile that is relevant.
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Post by: Ancestral Hamster
It looks like a small Tau railgun. Perhaps it's meant to be a very large two-handed sword.
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Post by: Eldarain
Arggh. The wait for my books is killin me. I have a Grey Company force and some Rivendell minis purchased mostly because they are awesome sculpts. Can they ally without loss of army rules etc?
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Post by: Manchu
Rivendell's Historical Allies are the Fellowship, Lothlorien, and Numenor.
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Post by: TheWaspinator
The lack of historical allies for "The Trolls" is annoying but not unexpected. I'm probably going to wind up proxying mine as Cave Trolls.
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Post by: MangoMadness
Deleted due to misinformation
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Post by: Slinky
 MangoMadness wrote:im disappointed by the maximum models table.
Whats the point of goblin town allowing 6 more goblins per character when it will take you over the maximum model count.
Viva the horde! 
I haven't seen that yet, where is it?
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Post by: MangoMadness
My mistake, it looks like the pic was from Legions of Middle Earth. I will erase my comment
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Post by: weasel_beef
Almost done assembling the good guys from the new box. Finished putting together Théoden last night...what a great model. Awesome detail, love the non-heroic 28mm scale. Gave him the helmet on the mounted version and let his golden locks flow free on the footed version.
Hoping to knock out the rest of the Orcs, Nazgul, Troll, and the few remaining undead warriors tonight and tomorrow. Absurdly humid here in mid-Atlantic this week...next week should be okay for priming.
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Post by: Haanz
Anyone know if Rivendell Knights still don't contribute to the bow limit? I read that somewhere this was a thing in The Hobbit but I can't find reference to it in my Armies of LOTR book.
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Post by: Oppl
 weasel_beef wrote:Almost done assembling the good guys from the new box. Finished putting together Théoden last night...what a great model. Awesome detail, love the non-heroic 28mm scale. Gave him the helmet on the mounted version and let his golden locks flow free on the footed version.
Hoping to knock out the rest of the Orcs, Nazgul, Troll, and the few remaining undead warriors tonight and tomorrow. Absurdly humid here in mid-Atlantic this week...next week should be okay for priming.
He truly is astonishing. I've gotten used to GW's current quality in terms of plastic sculpts - both in terms of the detail as well as how excellently designed they are for masking or incorporating mold lines, but seeing it done on a LOTR model is just sublime.
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Post by: Sledgehammer
So my favorite new rule are the heroic challenges.Sadly almost no heroes have access to them. the only ones that i see that have them are legendary heroes!
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Post by: Eldarain
 Haanz wrote:Anyone know if Rivendell Knights still don't contribute to the bow limit? I read that somewhere this was a thing in The Hobbit but I can't find reference to it in my Armies of LOTR book.
Elrond allows them to be omitted when determining the bow limit I believe.
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Post by: durecellrabbit
Do the rules for allies with less than perfect compatibility apply to both allies? For example if I'm Rohan and want to ally the Army of the Dead from the starter do I loss the Rohan army rule as well the allies? I'm having a bit of trouble with understanding the rules.
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Post by: Crazyterran
Speaking of which I haven’t gotten a chance to get it yet, but do the fiefdoms count as Gondor on that allows chart they posted or?
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Post by: durecellrabbit
 Crazyterran wrote:Speaking of which I haven’t gotten a chance to get it yet, but do the fiefdoms count as Gondor on that allows chart they posted or?
No, they count as a separate army with their own bonus but can green ally Gondor.
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Post by: captain bloody fists
just out of curiosity as i'm new to the game. are there any squad building apps etc?
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Post by: Shrapnelsmile
durecellrabbit wrote:Do the rules for allies with less than perfect compatibility apply to both allies? For example if I'm Rohan and want to ally the Army of the Dead from the starter do I loss the Rohan army rule as well the allies? I'm having a bit of trouble with understanding the rules.
I am as well. Looking forward to some insight here.
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Post by: weasel_beef
durecellrabbit wrote:Do the rules for allies with less than perfect compatibility apply to both allies? For example if I'm Rohan and want to ally the Army of the Dead from the starter do I loss the Rohan army rule as well the allies? I'm having a bit of trouble with understanding the rules.
If I'm reading the text correctly, the bonus and allies rule applies to all warbands in your army- not just the allied force. Historical Allies can keep all bonuses, Convenient Allies lose army bonuses, and Impossible Allies lose their bonuses and then some. The Dead of Dunharrow and Rohan are convenient allies, so bonuses would be lost. Additionally, the Dead require Aragorn to be included in the army for them to not be considered impossible allies...so you'd need a Minas Tirith contingent with Aragorn as your leader in there as well to retain the convenient ally status for everyone.
Edit: Support from the text-
" 'Army Bonus': If your army consists entirely of models from a single army list, then the army receives its own unique Army Bonus. Note that, unless otherwise stated, the Army Bonus will only come into effect as long as your force only contains models from a single army list (although certain alliances will allow for the forces to keep their Army Bonus)." pg. 236, LOTR Army book.
With allies, your army no longer includes models from a single list- meaning that it would lose it's bonus. The allies matrix/rules goes on to amend this and say that historical allies can retain army bonuses, convenient allies lose bonuses but are okay otherwise, and that impossible allies lose their bonuses and are punished further.
Rohan's historical allies include The Fiefdoms (DOL AMROTH), Lothlorian, Minas Tirith, and the Wildmen. The Dead are convenient allies of Rohan, but have their own special rule stating that they are automatically considered impossible allies ( pg. 52), unless Aragorn is included in the list.
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Post by: durecellrabbit
Thanks! I'm a little bit annoyed the starter came with two allies who don't get along great but I'll get over it.
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Post by: Shrapnelsmile
durecellrabbit wrote:Thanks! I'm a little bit annoyed the starter came with two allies who don't get along great but I'll get over it.
more than a bit annoying, yes -- but I will accept as well. I may not assemble the dead just yet --I'm kind of customizing a starter using some of the contents with eventual careful purchases for my first game and intros to friends.
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Post by: Manchu
FWIW the starter seems to support scenarios recreating certain moments in the Battle of Pelennor Field. Ash from GMG noted that the starter box does not even divulge Theoden or WKA heroic tiers. You have to keep in mind that matched play, with all the army building rules, is just one of the ways to approach SBG - and furthermore the original way the game was meant to be played was actually scenario-based. Rather than judge the product as lacking because it is not tailored to the some of the last stuff SBG was ever meant to do, it probably makes more sense to judge it by what it’s actually aupposed to do.
Yes, the box is a great way to get a bunch of figs and the core book for a great deal but don’t just ignore everything else it comes with. This reminds me of James Hewitt lamenting that so many people bought Betrayal at Calth, fished the sprues out of the box, and disregarded everything else, which of course meant they were disregarding his labor of love because for them it was just a start collecting bundle.
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Post by: weasel_beef
 Shrapnelsmile wrote: durecellrabbit wrote:Thanks! I'm a little bit annoyed the starter came with two allies who don't get along great but I'll get over it.
more than a bit annoying, yes -- but I will accept as well. I may not assemble the dead just yet --I'm kind of customizing a starter using some of the contents with eventual careful purchases for my first game and intros to friends.
It's definitely a little frustrating from a matched play perspective, but like Manchu said, a lot of the new SBG stuff seems geared towards narrative/story-driven play. The Dead and Rohan not being historical allies makes sense lore-wise...the Dead went and begrudgingly fought for Aragorn because of the ancient curse placed upon them when they broke their oath to Isildur. As Isildur's heir, Aragorn was able to command them to fulfill their oath to Gondor and come do his bidding. The Dead didn't owe anything to Rohan or Théoden, so while they were both fighting against the forces of Sauron in the end, it's not like they were buddy buddy and happy to be there together.
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Post by: judgedoug
This has been the case with every SBG starter set.
It is one hundred percent designed to play the four included scenarios, introducing you to more advanced rules with each play through. After the scenarios, there is a "What should you get next?" detailing how to expand each of the three armies in the box, for matched/points play.
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Post by: godswildcard
I gotta say it's a bit annoying how GW CONTINUES to underestimate demand for LoTR in just about every front.
You'd think that with the new starter they would've produced extra units to aid in expanding the armies from said starter. You'd think wrong. Want to turn that Morder army into a legal force by adding a Morannon Orc captain or Gothmog? Tough. How about adding another hero and some Royal guard to the Rohan? Sucks to be you.
They did the same thing at NOVA with the FW models (knights of Dol Amroth on foot and the Mordor support captains). They barely brought any and sold out immediately. By the time I got there first thing Friday morning they basically laughed at me when I asked if they had any.
I wonder if GW will ever learn that it's incredibly difficult to buy their stuff if they don't have any of their stuff to sell...?
Sorry. Rant over. I've been assembling the starter box tonight and got excited and wanted to add to the armies but found I was out of luck. Hope they restock soon!
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Post by: Zond
I've not picked up the new starter set yet but I'm excited for the return of the SBG. I've dusted off some old models, including an old Mins Tirith battle force or something I was looking to sell and I'm excited to start work on the odd Wary Riders and Galadhrim I've picked up along the way. I might pick up two of the new starters and make a nice massive force of Mordor and Rohan although not sure what I would do with the army of the dead. Either way exciting times!
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Post by: Momotaro
godswildcard wrote:I gotta say it's a bit annoying how GW CONTINUES to underestimate demand for LoTR in just about every front. You'd think that with the new starter they would've produced extra units to aid in expanding the armies from said starter. You'd think wrong. Want to turn that Morder army into a legal force by adding a Morannon Orc captain or Gothmog? Tough. How about adding another hero and some Royal guard to the Rohan? Sucks to be you. [...] Sorry. Rant over. I've been assembling the starter box tonight and got excited and wanted to add to the armies but found I was out of luck. Hope they restock soon!
The game is in a slightly funny place at the moment, with a number of the old metal figures OOP. Some of the troops are in resin, which helps, but others like Moria shamans, which you very reasonably may want more than one of, are only available in the command packs. A lot of minor characters are just not available at all. So what we did in the old days: 1) Give captains or other special units a different colour on the rim of the base. Or paint the "Royal Guard" with different colours on their cloaks and shields, or even just say that the riders with the throwing spears are Royal Guard, and everyone else is a normal rider; 2) Convert! The troll drums in the Pelennor box can be put on their own base if you want to convert a drummer model from an orc: drumsticks are a tiny length of paperclip and a blob of greenstuff. The command sprues for many of the Medieval/Dark Age historical plastics by the Perrys, Gripping Beast or Conquest are great for plastic horns, banners or variant weapons. The Frostgrave sprues have a ton of useful equipment on them (also great for Battle Companies). Drums and arms can be found, for example, Warlord's Pike and Shotte command sprue (may be a bit tidy for orcs though...) Many of these sprues can be bought individually too, either from the company itself or via eBay. The Dark Ages and Medieval period are both served unbelievably well by other manufacturers, but I realise that' you want, not unreasonably, GW to actually supply the models themselves.
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Post by: thekingofkings
unreleased miniatures and mithril miniatures have been my go-to for models GW is not producing.
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Post by: TheWaspinator
Yeah, I think painting a gold base rim on an ordinary warrior makes a perfectly fine captain. Maybe do shields and/or helmets a different color, too. "Slightly shinier ordinary guy" sounds like a good description of a generic captain.
I'm also eyeing the Oathmark miniature line. I think their stuff would work great for LOTR.
Another idea I would love a size comparison for: the Song of Ice & Fire miniatures game just came out, it's starter set would get you a bunch of fantasy humans.
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Post by: auticus
Song of Ice & Fire is 32mm so compared to the standard LOTR line, they look very much out of place. IMO.
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Post by: Sledgehammer
https://davaleminiatures.com/
Has some seemingly great sculpts and i'm personally looking to get those mounted rangers, but I believe that he only has his product manufactured in waves. So there's no telling when stuff comes back in stock =/
Alternatively for the Rohirrim, the Romano British from warlord games would work pretty well. Honestly a lot of anglo-saxon esq miniatures should work pretty well for Rohirrim .
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Post by: judgedoug
 Sledgehammer wrote:https://davaleminiatures.com/
Has some seemingly great sculpts and i'm personally looking to get those mounted rangers, but I believe that he only has his product manufactured in waves. So there's no telling when stuff comes back in stock =/
Alternatively for the Rohirrim, the Romano British from warlord games would work pretty well. Honestly a lot of anglo-saxon esq miniatures should work pretty well for Rohirrim .
Davale minis are fantastic. I have several of his figures. The sculpting and casting are phenomenal.
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Post by: str00dles1
While people are asking.....
Any tips for a armored Elladan/Erohir foot and mounted? Along with the other elf characters? Lindir, Cirdan, Gildor?
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Post by: Rocmistro
New player here!
Bought the Fellowship of the Ring boxed set back in like 2002 or so when it first came out.
Played 1 game at the time and it wasn't what I was looking for so I packed it away and never looked back (WHF player at the time).
I continued to collect the minis and paint them sporadically and found I had a pretty sizeable Uruk Hai force when they announced the relaunch. I'm looking forward to my first game tomorrow night!
So a couple questions:
1. Can I put all the gear options on a given model? Can I give my Uruk Hai pikes and shields and crossbows, for example?
2. Is there a good mix of recommended Cav to Infantry to shooting to characters in this game? Anything I should hugely avoid?
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Post by: Manchu
(1) Generally, models are equipped as sculpted.
(2) There is (for most factions) a ranged weapons limit. Otherwise, you can build your force as you wish.
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Post by: Rocmistro
1. Right, but, for example, I just bought the Warg Riders pack. It's 6 models, and there are extra bits...specifically shields and bows that you can glue on. So my question is could I give those extra bits to a model with a spear, for example, and then they have all those options (assuming i pay the points, of course).
2. Yeah I realize that. I'm just asking if strategically there is a good mix to pay attention to. Would an ALL Warg Rider force, work, for example?
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Post by: Manchu
(1) Heroes are always only equipped exactly as they are sculpted, IIRC. But you can kit out your Warriors as you like, within the limits of their profiles. Just pay close attention to the wording of their unit entries in the armies book.
(2) I'm not aware of any rule of thumb on cav/foot ratio. I think of it more along the lines of the size of the overall warband relative to the cost of its constituent parts. A man on a horse (or indeed and orc on a warg) is more expensive than his pedestrian counterpart. The more mounted Warriors in your warband, the smaller it is. For low-morale Evil warbands, this can be an issue.
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Post by: motyak
Back into it today with khazad dum. I forgot how nice these models are to paint! Not too busy at all
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
 Manchu wrote:(1) Heroes are always only equipped exactly as they are sculpted, IIRC. But you can kit out your Warriors as you like, within the limits of their profiles. Just pay close attention to the wording of their unit entries in the armies book.
(2) I'm not aware of any rule of thumb on cav/foot ratio. I think of it more along the lines of the size of the overall warband relative to the cost of its constituent parts. A man on a horse (or indeed and orc on a warg) is more expensive than his pedestrian counterpart. The more mounted Warriors in your warband, the smaller it is. For low-morale Evil warbands, this can be an issue.
Generic Heroes can switch weapons at 5pts per, as per the rules for grand-fathering in converted models.
Also to the earlier question, you COULD give a model everything, but its often a waste. The rules specifically say a spear/pike model can't support AND shoot in the same turn, and shields lose their bonus on a model using two-handed weapons, crossbows, or bows... etc.
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Post by: Sgt. Cortez
Rocmistro wrote:
2. Yeah I realize that. I'm just asking if strategically there is a good mix to pay attention to. Would an ALL Warg Rider force, work, for example?
I haven't tried the new edition yet, but the rules didn't change too much. I've played with Warg rider armies every now and then and while they are very good against all-mounted armies due to Wargs being awesome compared to horses, they didn't really work against more balanced forces. Cavalry always relys on getting the charge, once you are close to the enemy you have to ensure to still attack with heroic movement, which costs you might points and can be countered. And once your rider doesn't charge he's just as weak as a model costing half the points.
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Post by: judgedoug
You can equip models with whatever is allowed in their profiles.
Be sure to read the special rules for the equipment though, as you'll find that equipping both a shield and pike is nearly useless, as is both a shield and bow, for example.
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Post by: Rocmistro
Well my 1st battle last night was a victory for Isengard and the fighting Uruk Hai.
I had Sharku, Vrasku, 1 Troll, 5 Warg Riders with bows or spears, and 10 Uruk Hai, 1 of which was a banner bearer.
You may notice that comes out to 410 pts, and that's because I forgot to actually pay for the "body" of the banner bearer. Whoops!
My opponent was Minas Tirith and had Madril, 2 Captains, 2 horsemen, about 15 warriors and about 15 archers. (I don't remember exact number).
The game itself was decent but the scenario was a bit lame. We literally were deployed right next to each other, and my troll was just unstoppable from the start of it.
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Post by: judgedoug
Rocmistro wrote:Well my 1st battle last night was a victory for Isengard and the fighting Uruk Hai.
I had Sharku, Vrasku, 1 Troll, 5 Warg Riders with bows or spears, and 10 Uruk Hai, 1 of which was a banner bearer.
You may notice that comes out to 410 pts, and that's because I forgot to actually pay for the "body" of the banner bearer. Whoops!
My opponent was Minas Tirith and had Madril, 2 Captains, 2 horsemen, about 15 warriors and about 15 archers. (I don't remember exact number).
The game itself was decent but the scenario was a bit lame. We literally were deployed right next to each other, and my troll was just unstoppable from the start of it.
Let me guess, you guys played a scenario using Maelstrom of Battle? I definitely wouldn't do any Maelstrom mission at 400 points.
Dealing with monsters is definitely a learning curve - your friend will have to remove the troll's support, surround the troll, and win the duel with someone with a higher Fight - often a hero using a Heroic Strike can do it! surrounded by enough guys with support you can usually get in the 2 or 3 wounds required. Try it again in a normal scenario and you'll also find that enough bow shots can knock a vital wound or two off of a monster before it closes.
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Post by: Haanz
judgedoug wrote:You can equip models with whatever is allowed in their profiles.
Be sure to read the special rules for the equipment though, as you'll find that equipping both a shield and pike is nearly useless, as is both a shield and bow, for example.
Just to clarify on this because it's an interesting point - so, would people be okay with me equipping my metal Two Towers era ( AFAIK) Elladan and Elrohir models with Heavy Armour, for example despite the fact they're wearing robes and leathers (with visible chainmail portions under, granted)?
I know that in this case there's newer models that are wearing plate mail like standard High Elf Warriors available, and thus an option to be arguably more WYSIWYG with the minis, which gives me pause as to whether this would be accepted in organised play, etc however it seems reasonable to me that I would be able to just run them equipped with heavy armour ("it's under the robes", etc) as personally I'm not overly fond of the newer "squatting" Elladan's pose (and don't fancy painting the same units again when I have so much else to get to).
Obviously I know this wouldn't be an issue in casual play, but just wanted to confirm what people generally thought of this situation in organised play such as tournaments and events, etc?
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Post by: str00dles1
Haanz wrote: judgedoug wrote:You can equip models with whatever is allowed in their profiles.
Be sure to read the special rules for the equipment though, as you'll find that equipping both a shield and pike is nearly useless, as is both a shield and bow, for example.
Just to clarify on this because it's an interesting point - so, would people be okay with me equipping my metal Two Towers era ( AFAIK) Elladan and Elrohir models with Heavy Armour, for example despite the fact they're wearing robes and leathers (with visible chainmail portions under, granted)?
I know that in this case there's newer models that are wearing plate mail like standard High Elf Warriors available, and thus an option to be arguably more WYSIWYG with the minis, which gives me pause as to whether this would be accepted in organised play, etc however it seems reasonable to me that I would be able to just run them equipped with heavy armour ("it's under the robes", etc) as personally I'm not overly fond of the newer "squatting" Elladan's pose (and don't fancy painting the same units again when I have so much else to get to).
Obviously I know this wouldn't be an issue in casual play, but just wanted to confirm what people generally thought of this situation in organised play such as tournaments and events, etc?
Im in the other boat right now where id kill to get those armored poses! Somehow they totally vanished from GW.
In org play I don't see a issue. Its not as bad cosmetic wise as having a model with a sword and calling it a spear. Id have a issue with that, as its a easy conversion. Armor on the other hand as you said can be under robes. Also in org play you need a army list and can write armor under the profile and most people go over what their army is before playing anyways.
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Post by: judgedoug
I personally don't mind, as long as you tell me what isn't precisely wysiwyg beforehand. Tournament people tend to want you to have the official models; however, there's been plenty of leniency when it comes to using converted in-print models as stand-ins for oop models. I'm not that big into tournament stuff at all, so it doesn't matter to me. (I'm the guy that wants a fifteenth Aragorn sculpt)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can't see 'em! Any way you can post as Attachments?
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Even the tournament community, at large, is very welcoming and supportive of newer players, and fellow fans in general. I've seen people be fairly lenient of almost anything in regards to wysiwyg as long as it is clear what your intent is.
If say, every one of your Warriors of Minas Tirith are armed the same, and you opponent knows it, the stray mis-geared model isn't so much an issue... It becomes one when you have weirdly specific issues like "all the spears are more bows... but swords are swords..." and so on.
Plus, the community gets that we aren't all master hobbyists. I'm a tolerable painter, but I can't covert to save my life... I've never run into an event where that has suddenly caused me to have a bad experience.
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Post by: Rocmistro
Trying again with attachments, as requested.
2
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Post by: Prestor Jon
judgedoug wrote:You can equip models with whatever is allowed in their profiles.
Be sure to read the special rules for the equipment though, as you'll find that equipping both a shield and pike is nearly useless, as is both a shield and bow, for example.
Did they change the rules for pikes in the new rule book? I’m still using the movie books until I treat myself to a Pellenor Fields Christmas present. In the Two Towers book it says that if you equip a Uruk Hai with a pike you can’t give him a shield or a bow because the pike is a two handed weapon which prevents the use of additional weapons.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Prestor Jon wrote: judgedoug wrote:You can equip models with whatever is allowed in their profiles.
Be sure to read the special rules for the equipment though, as you'll find that equipping both a shield and pike is nearly useless, as is both a shield and bow, for example.
Did they change the rules for pikes in the new rule book? I’m still using the movie books until I treat myself to a Pellenor Fields Christmas present. In the Two Towers book it says that if you equip a Uruk Hai with a pike you can’t give him a shield or a bow because the pike is a two handed weapon which prevents the use of additional weapons.
You can give them all to the same model... they just become useless. :-p
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Post by: str00dles1
Not useless, just not needed reallt but you can.
If you give a model with a pike a shield they suffer -1 to their dual roll because its cumbersome for them to shield and pike.
Better to sword and board or just pike, not mix
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Post by: judgedoug
Unless you're Easterlings!
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