With Kill Team out, its time the crons had a kill team tactics thread to avoid cluttering up the 40k thread.
I'll update this main post with interesting info as we go. Everything below is just my opinion for now. I think Necrons might actually be solid for KT, we'll rarely fail break tests with native LD 10 across the board, meaning you will likely be able to fight to the last man. That, and with the ever-present possibility for RP, they can stick around and regain effectiveness late in a match. Slower move speed is less an issue on smaller boards too.
The Units with tentative grades
Spoiler:
Immortals: B+/B With strength 5+ being something relatively rare in KT, having it native to these guys for no additional cost is great. Better with Gauss than Tesla at close range. Now with Errata, Tesla always procs on a natural 6. Warriors: B- "Cheap" bodies, still with the classic statline. Not super special, but solid. Hurt by their 4+ armor save however. Deathmarks: B+ Rapid fire Sniper Rifles? Not bad not bad. Pair well with the Sniper Specialty or a comms specialist. Flayed Ones: B+ A solid close combat troop vs hordes 3 attacks base rerolling to wound makes for consistent damage for those that can get them into melee safely. Work well with the Combat and Zealot Specialties.
The Strategems
Spoiler:
MSS- 2cp to have your enemy fire a ranged weapon if you can roll over their LD on a 2d6 - I see it as situational, only really good vs low LD factions, as you need to be within 6 inches to use it. Overcharged Disintegration - 2cp to boost the AP of a weapon by 1 - I think this is a lot more useful. Prime Reanimation Protocols -2cp Roll an extra die on the injury roll table, and apply only the lowest result Targeting Routines 1CP Add one to hit rolls against an obscured target. This in my mind is the best kill team we have. Flensing Fury 1CP Each to wound roll of a 6 when attacking with a designated flayed one deals 1 additional damage. Meh. Dispersion Fields 1CP Increase the strength of 1 designated model by 1 until the end of the phase.
The Special Rules
Spoiler:
Reanimation Protocols - On an injury roll of a 6, the model instead of being taken out of action is healed to full health. - I'd prefer FNP, but this isn't too bad. Can restore the effectiveness of a model after substantial damage.
Example 100 pt kill teams
Spoiler:
3x Immortals 2x Deathmarks 1x Warrior 1x Flayed One
I had my 1st game last night and have some info I would like to pass on.
- Sniper Deathamrks are pretty good. Re-rolling 1s to hit with a +1 to hit from a Comms unit or Necron Gem makes them pretty Reliable.
- Don't be afraid to push your Flayed Ones up, I left mine hanging back for 2 turns a regretted it.
- Zealot Flayed Ones is nasty! +1S and +1A when charging. Makes them 4 attacks at S5. Pretty good against anything T4
- Leader should be a tax unit or something your going to be holding back all game. Immortal or Warrior would be the best to use,
- Warriors are the best for Comms as you wont be buffing them but they let any model with 6" to have +1 to hit in shooting phase. Could also put it on a FO for 2pts less and have that then as an anti-charge unit. just put it into LOS terrain and make sure nothing pokes out.
Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
- Leader should be a tax unit or something your going to be holding back all game. Immortal or Warrior would be the best to use,
I made my Leader a Deathmark (also had a Sniper Deathmark) and they just hung out in the back together taking potshots. Worked quite well.
I mostly agree with the gradings except I rate Warriors a bit lower. I have them because they're cheap, but tbh I might swap them for more Flayed Ones, which are great for zoning and soaking fire. A Combat Flayed One is really strong and becomes a real power player in Take Prisoners.
I also had my 1st game but one on easy mode (no specialists and command points AND obj. markers).
Snipers and Immortals are great but i dont like FOs that much and just keeping them at the back feels like a waste to me but ill give them another try and try to move them better. Can you charge through terrain? And can you charge what you dont see?
What are the best specialist traits for our crons?
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: I also had my 1st game but one on easy mode (no specialists and command points AND obj. markers).
Snipers and Immortals are great but i dont like FOs that much and just keeping them at the back feels like a waste to me but ill give them another try and try to move them better. Can you charge through terrain? And can you charge what you dont see?
What are the best specialist traits for our crons?
Why would you keep FOs at the back? Any melee-only unit that just sits back is always going to feel pointless.
Read the rules. Any terrain feature that is less than an inch and a half (so most scatter terrain and broken sections of walls) can be moved through with no penalty. Walls cannot be. Windows, you'd have to check with your opponent at the very least but many people play you can move through them. So yeah, a charge can vault over a small wall, and remember that even if you don't make the full charge distance, you can pile-in 3" as long as you survive shooting.
Hypercharging a Tesla immortal can be pretty hilarious, making them the Sniper, using Careful Aim and giving them another +1 from a Comms specialist to make them pop 3 hits on 4+, great for chewing through hordes of enemies.
To those people dismissing warriors, I would like to point out that for 3 immortals you can have 4 warriors. That may not seem like much, and on a 40k scale I would agree, but thanks to killteam's low model count and the flesh wound mechanic that extra body can go a long way.
Venerable Ironclad wrote: To those people dismissing warriors, I would like to point out that for 3 immortals you can have 4 warriors. That may not seem like much, and on a 40k scale I would agree, but thanks to killteam's low model count and the flesh wound mechanic that extra body can go a long way.
yeah, but the warrior has an inferior gun and less durability. If it were a 3+ save I'd agree with you, but that 16% decrease in saving a wound doesn't seem good to me.
Venerable Ironclad wrote: To those people dismissing warriors, I would like to point out that for 3 immortals you can have 4 warriors. That may not seem like much, and on a 40k scale I would agree, but thanks to killteam's low model count and the flesh wound mechanic that extra body can go a long way.
yeah, but the warrior has an inferior gun and less durability. If it were a 3+ save I'd agree with you, but that 16% decrease in saving a wound doesn't seem good to me.
I agree. Their guns for the purpose of KT are roughly equal, but I'd much, much rather pay the 4 points more for an immortal with Gauss, and get +1 Armor Save, +1 STR gun, -2 AP on gun.
If you know your opponent is running like...a gaunt horde i guess they'd do the trick better though.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
Warriors are good vs low toughness and invul saves e.g. Harlequins. If your playing in a narrative/campaign and know your against stuff T3 with any invul the warriors are good for that. Immortals are for T4 3+ save elite models. Arguably you could say DM are better than Warriors though as both guns are the same besides -1 on warriors and DMs doing MWs on 6+ to wound.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
Warriors are good vs low toughness and invul saves e.g. Harlequins. If your playing in a narrative/campaign and know your against stuff T3 with any invul the warriors are good for that. Immortals are for T4 3+ save elite models. Arguably you could say DM are better than Warriors though as both guns are the same besides -1 on warriors and DMs doing MWs on 6+ to wound.
Well, and the Deathmarks ignore range modifier outside of 12". Which is really, really strong.
the_scotsman wrote: Hypercharging a Tesla immortal can be pretty hilarious, making them the Sniper, using Careful Aim and giving them another +1 from a Comms specialist to make them pop 3 hits on 4+, great for chewing through hordes of enemies.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Warriors as B? I would put them as C or even D. There is no reason to ever take them, as they aren't cheap enough to be considered expendable, and necrons don't have options, so its not as if you'll find yourself 12 points short that often.
Warriors are good vs low toughness and invul saves e.g. Harlequins. If your playing in a narrative/campaign and know your against stuff T3 with any invul the warriors are good for that. Immortals are for T4 3+ save elite models. Arguably you could say DM are better than Warriors though as both guns are the same besides -1 on warriors and DMs doing MWs on 6+ to wound.
Well, and the Deathmarks ignore range modifier outside of 12". Which is really, really strong.
They do? Can you reference that please? Don't have my book on me
DarknessEternal wrote: Deathmarks don't ignore that. Synaptic Disintegrators do, that's where the rules are.
That being said, i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
DarknessEternal wrote: Deathmarks don't ignore that. Synaptic Disintegrators do, that's where the rules are.
That being said, i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
You should probably edit your OP to not suggest Overcharged Disintegration on snipers.
the_scotsman wrote: Hypercharging a Tesla immortal can be pretty hilarious, making them the Sniper, using Careful Aim and giving them another +1 from a Comms specialist to make them pop 3 hits on 4+, great for chewing through hordes of enemies.
What are you even talking about?
iGuy91 wrote: i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
iGuy91 wrote: i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
Dunno. Might not suck...Maybe I will try it today and get back to you lmao.
Warriors I think are at a B- currently. What would you suggest they be ranked alternatively?
iGuy91 wrote: Warriors I think are at a B- currently. What would you suggest they be ranked alternatively?
On paper they look pretty C to me. If someone can post evidence that they're actually worth their points on the table, I'd gladly reconsider.
Though you may want to edit the rating to use a colon rather than a dash (to distinguish it from the minus grades), so
Immortals: A-/B-
I'd suggest they keep a toe in B rank, as they are excellent vs t3 units with low saves like cultists, gaunts, halequins, where an immortal's higher AP just is going to be wasted. More bodies, more shots, hopefully more carnage if the dice agree. I think it gives them a potential niche.
iGuy91 wrote: i think we get some really unique sniper play as necrons. Pretty sure we're the only faction with rapid fire sniper weapons, no need to use high up perches to get clear shots all game.
So 6 Deathmarks + 1 Flayed One, then?
4 Deathmarks + 4 Flayed Ones is actually not the worst idea I've seen...
I'd set up my Combat Roster to pop that out in certain Missions, it'd be pretty brutal against Guard I think.
So I'm looking at the book in regards to Specialists.
It says you can pay points for higher level specialists (lvl 1 is free, but lvl 2 is +4 points, 3 is +8). But it also says you can only take lvl 1 for matched play (lvl 2-4 is for campaign only). That's a real bummer, as a lvl 3 Sniper Deathmark would definitely be worth the points.
Anyway, maybe it's time we discuss what Specialists combos would work best for our guys?
skoffs wrote: So I'm looking at the book in regards to Specialists. It says you can pay points for higher level specialists (lvl 1 is free, but lvl 2 is +4 points, 3 is +8). But it also says you can only take lvl 1 for matched play (lvl 2-4 is for campaign only). That's a real bummer, as a lvl 3 Sniper Deathmark would definitely be worth the points.
Anyway, maybe it's time we discuss what Specialists combos would work best for our guys?
My Specialists grade from playing and watching games via TTS (Table Top Simulator);
Warriors - Leader/Comms - If your bringing a Warrior its probably the best tax for a Leader roll. Comms work to as it gives 1 model within 6" a +1 to hit.
Immortals - Leader/Veteran/Comms - Same info as above in regards to Immortals. Only buff is a better save to last longer. Veteran if your moving up to board to claim objects.
Deathmartks - Leader/Sniper/Comms - Same as above. Sniper as it grants re-roll 1s to hit.
Flayed Ones - Combat/Zealot - Both grant +1 A but Zealot also grants +1S if that unit charge that turn.
my 4 Specialists are as follows - Leader: G Immortal, Comms: Deathmark, Sniper: Deathmark and Zealot; Flayed One. other 3 units are 2 G Immortals and 1 Flayed One
Just for clarification's sake, when using specialist abilities that say "choose a friendly model," unless it specifies "another model", that specialist can choose itself, correct? (another friendly model within 3"... you're within 3" of yourself, right?)
skoffs wrote: Just for clarification's sake, when using specialist abilities that say "choose a friendly model," unless it specifies "another model", that specialist can choose itself, correct? (another friendly model within 3"... you're within 3" of yourself, right?)
Taken from the Comms section - Once per Shooting phase, when you pick a model from your kill team to shoot that is within 6" of this model, if this model is not shaken, you can add 1 to hit rolls made for that model in this phase.
So, I think you pick any model within 6" but you have to do it before shooting and sounds like you can't pick the Comms Specialist. We do have a 1CP gem that grants +1 to hit as well.
Odrankt wrote: when you pick a model from your kill team to shoot that is within 6" of this model
But he would still also be within 6" of himself.
If it said "another model", like the Leader lvl 1 tactic (Choose another friendly model within 3") then I could see that being a case of "Okay obviously it can't be himself if it specifically says to pick someone else", but without that I don't see any reason why they would have to exclude themselves from their abilities.
Is there something in the rules somewhere that I might have missed that says otherwise? (genuinely don't know, I only skimmed on my way to the Necrons section).
If not then you should be able to stack a couple buff on Telsa guys that might make them useful no matter the situation.
(though I still think the best guys to be doing combos with are Deathmarks)
Ok seriously, why are people suggesting tesla... ever?
Same stats as 8th ed. In 8th ed tesla>gauss in most scenarios because:
1. The battlefield is bigger and immortals die to a stiff breeze, just like anything else when focused. So being within 12'' inches of the enemy (For rapid fire, when gauss becomes better) is a death sentence.
2. There -1s to hit but not everyone has that.
In kill team you basically start in rapidfire range. So gauss is already better than tesla in most scenarios. However there are SO many ways to get -1s to hit that even in those edge cases where tesla would be better(where AP doesn't matter at all) - gauss still reigns supreme.
If you're taking tesla in kill team - you're making your list worse, not better.
I whole heartedly agree about Tesla being sub par, but I'm just talking theoreticals for the time being.
In actual practice I'm going to be bringing Gauss Immortals.
Have yet to get a game in, however.
I hear very mixed things about Deathmarks at the moment. I'm wondering if that's just because people are only taking the single one, maybe two at most. I'm really interested to see if those [6 Deathmark + 1 Flayed One] or [4 Deathmarks + 4 Flayed Ones] lists idea work out.
Played 3 games of killteam so far, here are my thoughts:
-immortals vs warriors: I’m not convinced that the immortals is superior to the warrior. Here’s why:
1: The extra body on the board really helps. A single model alone is quite survivable because of how injuries work.
2: Less bodies also means your killteams effectiveness drops more quickly when flesh wounds and close combats happen. One game against SM in the first turn 3 of my Immortals had one flesh wound, severely decreasing their effectiveness. And another game two of my immortals were locked in combat. And remember, in Killteam it’s very easy to stay permanently locked in Combat.
3; Less bodies makes it more likely for everyone to get a flesh wound and thus auto-breaking your killteam. We don’t have the luxury of having a cheap model who can stay behind to avoid this. In both games were I didn’t take warriors my killteam was broken turn 3-4.
I’m gonna keep switching between an immortal and warrior heavy list and see which will bring me more results. So far, warriors have my preference.
Furtheremore;
-A sniper deathmark is basically an auto-include. Get him into rapid-fire range and he can quite reliably put a wound on an enemy model.
-Everyone mentions that the comms buff should always go to the Deathmark, but I think it’s worth more on a rapid-fire immortal/Warrior.
-Flayed Ones can be ok, but I used them against Astartes and I was reminded of how horrible AP0 was against a 3+ save. Two Flayed Ones (one being a combat specialist) took three turns to take down a Primaris marine....
-Our stratagems are quite good. ‘Ignores cover’ is useful every turn and +1S really helps out Flayed Ones. Another one I used every turn was the stratagem that let’’s you ignore the penalty of one flesh wound. This unfortunately left me with no command points to spend on re-rolls or other stratagems.
I’m thinking of trying a 85-90 point list to get +1 CP per turn.
Orks and Nids would probably see that and think it's cute.
I don't know if Nids would have an easy time with it, but Orks probably. I think it's worth having 10 in your Roster so if you show up to a table and see, for instance, Take Prisoners against something soft that you can beat up on (perhaps Guard or Tau depending on what's in their roster), you can just bust it out as a surprise tactic. There's not a lot of variety in our loadouts, so our Rosters are not too cluttered as is.
Orks and Nids would probably see that and think it's cute.
I don't know if Nids would have an easy time with it, but Orks probably. I think it's worth having 10 in your Roster so if you show up to a table and see, for instance, Take Prisoners against something soft that you can beat up on (perhaps Guard or Tau depending on what's in their roster), you can just bust it out as a surprise tactic. There's not a lot of variety in our loadouts, so our Rosters are not too cluttered as is.
I would not send 10 Flayed Ones vs a gun army like guard or Tau. If you fail your charges that's a free overwatch on the model and the opponent can choose to retreat which will hamper you even more. And if you try advance the FO up they will just shoot at whatever is closest until dead. FO army would be good vs other melee lists but not a dedicated gun army
Reanimation Protocols - On an injury roll of a 6, the model instead of being taken out of action is healed to full health. - I'd prefer FNP, but this isn't too bad. Can restore the effectiveness of a model after substantial damage.
Worth pointing out for people who haven't spotted this: multi damage weapons roll 1D6 per point of damage then have to pick the highest. This means more dice which means more chance of RP triggering for Necrons. We're still more likely to go OOA if the opponent is rolling more dice, but we're a *lot* less likely than other races. I think it's ~45% chance of going OOA at 2 - 4 damage, with a 50% chance of healing at 4 damage (yes, if we're hit by a 4 damage weapon, we're more likely to heal than we are to go OOA). All of this assuming a +0 injury roll mod!
This also has an interesting interaction with the Prime Reanimation Protocols tactic. I ran the maths on this because I assumed how it worked was before you roll an injury test you fire it and an extra D6 is added/lowest picked. I had no idea when it would be better to use that or stick to regular RP! However, I've since been informed that due to the wording of PRP you get to see the results of the roll before you commit to using it. So, you can probably easily turn an OOA result from a 1, 2 or 3 damage attack into a flesh wound instead! And considering we're pretty much immune to Nerve checks, that doesn't seem bad at all; we're going to be overall hard to remove from the board, up there with DG and TS, but also much harder to shake n break than those teams. We can do very well in a war of attrition!
Final minor point: a Zealot Flayed one with the right ability from the tree can be unkillable from the first attack if they're obscured On a 6 they heal, a roll of 5 becomes a 3, which is a flesh wound.
EDIT: To give people the numbers: for a 2 damage attack, with a 0 mod, a regular model is FW 25% of the time and OOA 75% of the time. Necrons are FW 25% of the time, OOA 44% of the time and trigger RP 31% of the time. Some people are grumbling this is not RAI and have sent in FAQ questions, seems cool to me and gives us a big buff in survivability while we lack in offense.
In the 3 games I've played of KT with my crons so far running the following
Leader
Immortal Gauss
Specialists
Immortal Gauss Comms
Deathmark Sniper
Flayed One Combat
Non-Specialists
Immortal Gauss
Immortal Gauss
Flayed One
I've noted a few things
1. Sniper Deathmark - Giving him the Comms buff, and then using CP as desired makes this guy, really really reliable. Has been a solid unit in all games
2. Gauss Immortals - Seem to be doing a very good job of killing special weapons troopers before they get to fire too much. They die, but tend to punch back hard enough to make them worthwhile. Honestly, they are the linebackers I need them to be.
3. Flayed Ones - They've both died in both games after bouncing off power armor in assault. I haven't been particularly impressed by them, but they have not gotten a chance to hit a preferred target, only MEQ.
Positioning wise, I'm finding advancing to mid-board is a must, I keep getting out-ranged by intercessors early, closing the gap, and rapid-firing things out of existence with focus fire. Late game, based on the way things have gone, I've abandoned cover to get clear LOS to maximize my damage.
General note. 7 models feels like a sweet spot for me. You have to lose 4 models before taking a break check, instead of 3 with 6 models. I'm thinking odd numbers might be the way to go in general.
I'm thinking about running this for my first foray into KT:
G.Immortal (16)
G.Immortal (16)
G.Immortal (16)
Deathmark (15)
Deathmark (15)
Warrior (12)
Flayed One (10)
= 100 points on the nose.
With at least one model from everything we're allowed to bring, I'm hoping to see a bit of how they each perform.
Granted, not the best way to test, but it does look like a semi decent mix. (if it's just for testing, I might even run one of the Immortals with Tesla. Yes, I know, sub par, but it's just a test run. If he completely blows he'll get his Gauss Blaster back).
The thing now is figuring out who should be what specialist role...
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
iGuy91 wrote: The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Yeah, a Zealot Flayed One buffed with Disruption Fields is going to be S6 A4 on the turn he charges. Too bad there's no way to get them any -AP.
And having one Deathmark as a Sniper and the other Deathmark buffed by the Comms should have them both hitting on 2+ (I have yet to see anything that disallows the Comms Specialist from buffing himself so please correct me with the corresponding rule page if I'm wrong).
But who should be Leader, then?
I've heard giving it to a Warrior is something people do (because Leaders are tax or something?), but wouldn't that be too risky, with only a 4+ save?
"Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect."
"As the Acolyte Hybrid is always within 6" of itself, it benefits from this ability as well."
Awesome!
Careful-Aim-Sniper and Comms-Scanner-"Sniper" Deathmark buddies both hitting on 2+ it is, then!
(though the real Sniper gets to reroll 1s as well)
iGuy91 wrote: The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Yeah, a Zealot Flayed One buffed with Disruption Fields is going to be S6 A4 on the turn he charges. Too bad there's no way to get them any -AP.
And having one Deathmark as a Sniper and the other Deathmark buffed by the Comms should have them both hitting on 2+ (I have yet to see anything that disallows the Comms Specialist from buffing himself so please correct me with the corresponding rule page if I'm wrong).
But who should be Leader, then?
I've heard giving it to a Warrior is something people do (because Leaders are tax or something?), but wouldn't that be too risky, with only a 4+ save?
If you aren't going for a Warrior-heavy team, I'd say just make one of the Immortals the leader. We can't afford to keep a model back safely.
iGuy91 wrote: The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Yeah, a Zealot Flayed One buffed with Disruption Fields is going to be S6 A4 on the turn he charges. Too bad there's no way to get them any -AP.
And having one Deathmark as a Sniper and the other Deathmark buffed by the Comms should have them both hitting on 2+ (I have yet to see anything that disallows the Comms Specialist from buffing himself so please correct me with the corresponding rule page if I'm wrong).
But who should be Leader, then?
I've heard giving it to a Warrior is something people do (because Leaders are tax or something?), but wouldn't that be too risky, with only a 4+ save?
If you aren't going for a Warrior-heavy team, I'd say just make one of the Immortals the leader. We can't afford to keep a model back safely.
Agreed, we don't have the body count to hide our leaders. So I suggest keeping them as someone more survivable, maybe on a flank.
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
Who cares, Necrons can't have Demo.
I found that really annoying. real bummer on that one.
Odrankt wrote: when you pick a model from your kill team to shoot that is within 6" of this model
But he would still also be within 6" of himself.
If it said "another model", like the Leader lvl 1 tactic (Choose another friendly model within 3") then I could see that being a case of "Okay obviously it can't be himself if it specifically says to pick someone else", but without that I don't see any reason why they would have to exclude themselves from their abilities.
Is there something in the rules somewhere that I might have missed that says otherwise? (genuinely don't know, I only skimmed on my way to the Necrons section).
If not then you should be able to stack a couple buff on Telsa guys that might make them useful no matter the situation.
(though I still think the best guys to be doing combos with are Deathmarks)
The two Deathmarks stay back in cover and take shots without penalty (possibly moving up into rapid fire range or to sit on objectives).
The regular Immortals ahead of the Leader as meat shields, with the Warrior following him in case anyone tries to get behind (if needs be he can be left on objectives). Flayed One accompanying them in cover as counter assault.
Should work out in theory.
(Though I still want to try out those Deathmark+Flayed One only lists, too)
[edit]
Could in theory drop the Warrior to give the list an extra Command Point every turn... but then you'd only have six guys on the board.
Worth it for the extra tactic flexibility?
I don't get the deathmark hype. It's an overpriced tactical to me. The weapon wants it to be out of RF range, so it's about 2x worse damage output than gauss in RF range at -1.
Sure you get mortal wounds on a 6 but with no way to boost wound rolls... most of the time it's a simple bolter
rvd1ofakind wrote: I don't get the deathmark hype. It's an overpriced tactical to me. The weapon wants it to be out of RF range, so it's about 2x worse damage output than gauss in RF range at -1.
Sure you get mortal wounds on a 6 but with no way to boost wound rolls... most of the time it's a simple bolter
Using a one or two of them to cover the entire board without penalty while your Gauss Immortals move up is pretty handy. If they're in cover outside of everyone else's RF range, anyone shooting at them should have a -2 to hit, whereas the Deathmarks themselves can have a 2+ to hit things out in the open (with Sniper or Comms).
But yeah, if there was a way to get them wound rerolls, even if it was just 1s, they would be auto include all day. (fingers crossed for some cool new tactics like that in the Necron box?)
rvd1ofakind wrote: But why wouldn't you use coms on an immortal within RF anyway? That's +1 for 2 shots
You could, but during the first turn while everyone is moving up the table, might as well give it to the guy who can shoot without penalty first.
Once the Immortals are in RF range, yeah, then would be better stuck on them.
Turn 1: Immortals move up. Comms gives Sniper Deathmark +1 to hit (helps that he rerolls 1s as well). Immortals take pot shots at whatever they can see as well.
Turn 2: Comms gives an Immortal the +1. Hopefully he's in RF range now. Consider giving him the extra -1AP tactic as well if it's really needed.
Turn 3: Repeat actions from turn 2. Possibly in combat now. Hope you brought a Flayed One to counter charge with.
iGuy91 wrote: Question.
Aside from survivability, why keep deathmarks out of rapid fire range. 2 shots is more chances to get mortal wounds, right?
I was mostly thinking survivability / to use as a harassment (ie. "I can shoot you good, but you can't shoot me good").
If I wanted to increase my odds at generating mortal wounds I'd take the 6 Deathmark+1 Flayed One list. (which I may yet do)
It's board control. If you can set Deathmarks up in good fire lanes with cover, it limits where your opponent can move safely. The gun is nothing special, sure, but in a game with so many minuses to hit, getting to a 3+ or even 2+ to hit reliably every turn (other Stratagems like Get Down nonwithstanding) is extremely powerful. It's not so much about camping snipers as it is being safe with no penalty, which few other units in the game have.
This isn't 40k, where the objective is to get in and smash as hard as possible quickly, with how the game works it is very much about positioning, denying your opponent, and getting advantages they don't have.
I use DMs to hold objects while I send my models up the field, I use them so if my opponent gets into RF range they will regret it and I use them cause they the only model we have that re-rolls 1 to hit and to ignore the distances -1 modifier. Don't compare them to Immortals. Compare them to Warriors. I used 2 DMs in my 3 games and are very clutch. Don't knock something out until you try it yourself.
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
I don't think that's the case - even if they could take it. To get the bonus from Demolitions, the target has to be obscured, and thus you are taking a -1 to hit them. -1 to hit hurts, so that -1 to hit and +1 to wound ends up as less efficient than simply rerolling 1's to hit. (Of course, if all your targets are obscured, then there might be a case for it - not sure how likely that is yet, need more games played!)
I think Comms (for the +1 to hit) is better than both, though. But then, you probably want to give that to the Tesla-mortal, if you can get them close quickly enough.
Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Deathmark(Leader)
Deathmark(Sniper)
T Immortal (Comms)
Flayed One (Combat)
Flayed One
G Immortal
G Immortal
First game was against a guy who brought an entire list of Primaris Reivers. Got completely crushed, the Reivers totally outmatched my Flayed Ones in combat and went on to tag the rest of my models. He went on to go 4-0 and win the tournament so uh, Primaris are pretty good in this ruleset it seems.
Second was against Guard, and I'm still mad about it. It was the mission where you only score points for kills in combat so I had an advantage, I managed to get both of my flayed ones stuck in but because his guys were so blobbed up I wasn't scoring any VP for the guys I killed and we ended up tying 0-0.
Third was against AdMech, who seem to have the best gun in the entire game in the arquebus. I got pretty solidly demolished again here, some really unlucky injury rolls in the first round made the whole thing spiral down.
My final game was against non-primaris Space Marines. Won this game by a landslide though I would mostly attribute it to really lucky rolls on my part; the very first declared shooting of the game was my sniper deathmark getting a mortal wound and an out of action result on his scout sniper. The rest of the game saw rolls a lot like that.
Overall I'd say that the Tesla Immortal is about as worthless as expected; even pumping as many resources into buffing him as I possibly could I got exactly one tesla proc the entire tournament. On the other hand RP was solid, I feel like I got a fair number of sixes. The Deathmarks, G Immortals, and Flayed Ones all performed their roles reasonably well, though Deathmarks are clearly weak in comparison to Skitarii Rangers (I think everyone's snipers are weak next to Rangers though so that's a wash).
The main thing I come out of that tournament thinking is that I REALLY wish we got access to lychguard. A scytheguard or two would have completely turned the tables on the primaris list in a way that the flayed ones were simply incapable of doing. I feel like just adding that datasheet would make Necrons a much better kill team faction.
If KT takes off as a competitive format I can totally see them adding more units to each faction (as well as new factions, eg. Sisters) as a way to update and attempt to balance the game next year.
skoffs wrote: If KT takes off as a competitive format I can totally see them adding more units to each faction (as well as new factions, eg. Sisters) as a way to update and attempt to balance the game next year.
New and existing models will be brought into the game when we start getting game Expansions e.g Killteam: Rouge Trader and the new nurgle units that got leaked weeks ago. GW said they want to support this as a tourney and all local GW shops have been sent a "tournament" package so they can run a 2 month campaign from Sept. to Novem. With prizes for playing, winning and participation. KT:RT is supposed to come out November/December time from sources I seen on Discord.
Arachnofiend wrote: Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Deathmark(Leader)
Deathmark(Sniper)
T Immortal (Comms)
Flayed One (Combat)
Flayed One
G Immortal
G Immortal
First game was against a guy who brought an entire list of Primaris Reivers. Got completely crushed, the Reivers totally outmatched my Flayed Ones in combat and went on to tag the rest of my models. He went on to go 4-0 and win the tournament so uh, Primaris are pretty good in this ruleset it seems.
Second was against Guard, and I'm still mad about it. It was the mission where you only score points for kills in combat so I had an advantage, I managed to get both of my flayed ones stuck in but because his guys were so blobbed up I wasn't scoring any VP for the guys I killed and we ended up tying 0-0.
Third was against AdMech, who seem to have the best gun in the entire game in the arquebus. I got pretty solidly demolished again here, some really unlucky injury rolls in the first round made the whole thing spiral down.
My final game was against non-primaris Space Marines. Won this game by a landslide though I would mostly attribute it to really lucky rolls on my part; the very first declared shooting of the game was my sniper deathmark getting a mortal wound and an out of action result on his scout sniper. The rest of the game saw rolls a lot like that.
Overall I'd say that the Tesla Immortal is about as worthless as expected; even pumping as many resources into buffing him as I possibly could I got exactly one tesla proc the entire tournament. On the other hand RP was solid, I feel like I got a fair number of sixes. The Deathmarks, G Immortals, and Flayed Ones all performed their roles reasonably well, though Deathmarks are clearly weak in comparison to Skitarii Rangers (I think everyone's snipers are weak next to Rangers though so that's a wash).
The main thing I come out of that tournament thinking is that I REALLY wish we got access to lychguard. A scytheguard or two would have completely turned the tables on the primaris list in a way that the flayed ones were simply incapable of doing. I feel like just adding that datasheet would make Necrons a much better kill team faction.
Shame it didn't go so well. But at least you (and we all for that matter) can learn from it. What would you have changed in your list (apart from the T. Immortal)? Are you going to change your playstyle in the future (more agressive, more defensive)?
Arachnofiend wrote: Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Were they not using Command Roster as you are supposed to per the Matched Play rulebook? Imo it's an integral part of MP and the game doesn't quite work without it, some armies can make TAC lists way easier than others.
Arachnofiend wrote: Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Were they not using Command Roster as you are supposed to per the Matched Play rulebook? Imo it's an integral part of MP and the game doesn't quite work without it, some armies can make TAC lists way easier than others.
Hm...well, we know the truth on T-immortals now I guess.
@Doctoralex: Unfortunately due to our limited options there isn't much I feel I could change; the two games I lost badly I lost because I couldn't deal with 2-wound models (Primaris) and because I got significantly out-ranged (AdMech). I think we definitely need Deathmarks just to ensure our entire list isn't hitting on 5's in the first round but I really don't see what else I could have brought that would have done better against the Reivers. There are definitely things on the tactics side I could have improved on though, playing scared hurt me against AdMech and is part of the reason I got a tie against Guard.
@Requizen: No command roster, no. It wasn't a serious tournament, basically just the store trying to gauge interest; the next tournament they do will use the NOVA rules packet.
My boys fell really flat vs death guard. Plague Spitters and Plasma everywhere on marines that just don't die, plus some really rotten dice luck on my part.
iGuy91 wrote: My boys fell really flat vs death guard. Plague Spitters and Plasma everywhere on marines that just don't die, plus some really rotten dice luck on my part.
Anyone match up vs DG and have tips?
My game with DG was pretty successful. I had no losses, DG lost a guy with plasma from my shooting, after under the mindshakle of scarabs he shot his own melee specialist.
Although in general, only two of the five games I played proved to be successful. One victory over DG and one victory over GK (the opponent has one model left). I lost three games: Adeptus Mechanicus (KP), Chaos Spacemarins (for control of markers) and Necrons (hellishly unlucky on dice).
my roster:
G Immortal (Leader)
Deathmark(Sniper)
G Immortal (Comms)
Flayed One (Zealot)
Flayed One
Deathmark
G Immortal
So it looks like the most common iteration we're going to be seeing for Necron KTs is
3x Immortals
2x Deathmarks
2x Flayed Ones
...
but how well are the FOs honestly performing?
Is it worth bringing two, or should you spend the 2 points to promote one to a Warrior? (same save but gets to shoot)
I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
unitled wrote: I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
How does Zealot make Flayed Ones Tougher? It just boosts strength and attacks on the charge.
I'm strongly debating Running. The lack of AP on FO makes them seem to come up short. I'd almost rather just game plan that the enemy is going to try and get close to engage in melee.
x3 Gauss Immortals
x2 Deathmarks
x1 Flayed One
x1 Warrior
unitled wrote: I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
How does Zealot make Flayed Ones Tougher? It just boosts strength and attacks on the charge. I'm strongly debating Running. The lack of AP on FO makes them seem to come up short. I'd almost rather just game plan that the enemy is going to try and get close to engage in melee. x3 Gauss Immortals x2 Deathmarks x1 Flayed One x1 Warrior
Yep, that's the exact list I've got. It has a requisite Flayed One as melee defense, but having two FOs seems like you'd be left wanting for shooting. The Warrior probably won't be contributing a lot to the battle, but at least maybe he'll be ignored? (then he can sit on an objective and take pot shots, or maybe be played as meat shield for the more important guys). Have a feeling it's going to be the go-to for everyone (unless that 6 DM + 1 FO idea pans out after all)
unitled wrote: I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
How does Zealot make Flayed Ones Tougher? It just boosts strength and attacks on the charge.
I'm strongly debating Running. The lack of AP on FO makes them seem to come up short. I'd almost rather just game plan that the enemy is going to try and get close to engage in melee.
x3 Gauss Immortals
x2 Deathmarks
x1 Flayed One
x1 Warrior
Sorry, I was talking just about campaign mode! As they level up they can get a 6+++ and a -1 to injury rolls.
Oooo Gotcha!
Yeah, so far I have yet to venture into campaign, but for matched play purposes, I am not sure they have a great place other than killing off cheap melee screens.
Those matches, about which I wrote, were just a campaign. In none of them Deathmarks did anything that would justify their cost and presence in the roster in the number of two. Even Flayed Ones proved to be more effective. I think to replace one Deathmark not a specialist on Immortal. Although it does not allow me to replace the second Flayed One on the Warrior. Zealot also proved to be not on the best side, if you take the specialist Flayed One, then you have to have Combat specialist, in this case it really can be a screen for other models and cut out the meat, which in our meta-make is surprisingly many.
Zealot doesn't seem worth it for flayed ones. You can already get them to S5 with a tactic, and when you can re-roll all wounds getting to 2+ to wound on t3 doesn't seem worth the investment. I think the more consistent benefit of Combat is superior in most cases.
Arachnofiend wrote: Zealot doesn't seem worth it for flayed ones. You can already get them to S5 with a tactic, and when you can re-roll all wounds getting to 2+ to wound on t3 doesn't seem worth the investment. I think the more consistent benefit of Combat is superior in most cases.
Why not both?
My first necron kill team will be two flayed ones (combat + zealot), immortal (comms), deathmark (leader), and three more immortals.
I didn't bother with a deathmark sniper, mainly because every other option puts out more damage, and is more points efficient. But, we'll see how effective the long-range support is after the harlequins slice me into neat metallic rings
Though has anyone actually tried running a 6 Immortal list yet?
Like, are you hamstringing yourself by having less boots on the ground, or would having everyone with the best guns and best saves be worth giving up the 4 extra points?
I guess the benefit of kill team and being relatively elite, we can tailor our force with plenty of space in the Roster. Like, Gauss Blasters don't gain a huge amount over Flayers against GEQs right? So your Immortals are paying an extra 4 points p/m for +1 save and - 1AP. At 3 immortals you can be 4 warriors...
Against MEQs though, the S5 has a much bigger difference. You can math hammer it out if you want, but something I might experiment with.
iGuy91 wrote: I'm gonna try running x6 Immortals with Gauss later this week. I'll report back once its done.
Hopefully you're able to get a few games in with them, so you'll have better data to work off of (to rule out fluke occurrences) and determine how well they perform..
I played my first game yesterday, and it was... pretty much a disaster. Granted, we were playing very "rules-light" just to get a feel for the game, and I know we did a few a things wrong, but I'm struggling to see how I can make my team more viable.
I feel like I don't have the same tactical flexibility that other factions have. We have a bunch of S4, 1 damage weapons. Aside from Flayed Ones, which didn't perform great for me, we're absolutely lost once we get locked in melee. And compared to something like the Tyranid Warriors, our shooting really isn't that strong, either. Assault 3 24" feels way stronger than Rapid Fire 1 24".
I'll run Deathmarks next time to see how they fare, but I'm a little disheartened. How's everyone else doing?
We don't perform well in melee. Stay away from it! And if you are going against T3, then maybe deathmarks long range can help. I've typically used Immortals, for their extra strength (not useful vs T3), and only had two flayed ones to distract / pull combatants. Everyone else shoots.
2 x Deathmarks (Sniper and Comms)
2x Flayed Ones (one combat)
3x Immortals
First Game against Death Watch - Lost (only just)
He had 5 models, two of which were melee guys (one thunder hammer, one maul and shield). I managed to kill only two of his models both of which were done by my combat flayed one (he kept two of his models close together and i charged them both from out of sight so got in and managed to kill them with the amount of wounds i was getting). It was a control point based game and it basically came down to the last fight phase of the game where my flayed one was in combat with his last non melee vet but I didn't kill him and he managed to kill me back (meaning he kept the near by control point and that won him the game due to him killing 2 more of my models (both had 1 control point)!). Was a fun game of kiting his melee guys so they only ended up killing one of my flayed ones with them.
Second game against Death Guard - Won (only just)
Was against 5 plague marines and 2 poxwalkers. His guy with a plague flail was his Vet and he used the CP to advance before the first turn right in front of me. I got initialive in the first turn and charged him with my combat flayed one and managed to kill him in the first round of combat (The CP to increase my strength by 1 in the fight phase was amazing here)! The only other kill I managed was with my other flayed one on his pox walkers. He had a marine with a big axe (sorry don't know the name but was basically a thunder hammer) in combat with my flayed one but he took 3 turns to kill him due to getting high damage rolls and always getting a 6 on one of the injury rolls (RP to the rescue). My shooting and his shooting ended up killing no one. He survived primarily due to making 6 5+ armour saves in a row on the same marine I was focus firing on a control point. I survived shooting due to him having bad hit rolling dice (he could save but never hit with weapons). The game ended with us both on 1 control point but I had killed more models.
MVP in both games was the combat specialist Flayed One. Deathmarks didn't kill anyone or inflict any flesh wounds but my opponents did have to work around them so affected the game that way. Against marines the immortals should have been great with the -2 AP but my opponents just kept making 5+ armour saves (the only 1 that got through ended up being a flesh wound in the first game). I am going to continue with this list and see how it fairs against other armies before coming up with any conclusions but I was impressed so far against opponents I thought would steam roll me. Best advice (that i forgot in first game till the end) PLAY TO THE OBJECTIVES.
hvg3akaek wrote: We don't perform well in melee. Stay away from it! And if you are going against T3, then maybe deathmarks long range can help. I've typically used Immortals, for their extra strength (not useful vs T3), and only had two flayed ones to distract / pull combatants. Everyone else shoots.
Agreed, STR5 is a little over-blown against T3. But I think the 3+ save is important too, which cannot be discounted.
It is very feast or famine. Against the first Wound you take while in cover, it takes you from a 1/3 chance of death to 1/6. That's huge. But some games it'll do... literally nothing.
iGuy91 wrote: It just me though, or does RP still kind of suck?
DarknessEternal wrote: It may not be as good as Disgustingly Resilient, but it's infinitely better than it is in 40k.
I prefer the 40k version, but clearly that won't work in this setting. I find the idea of 'getting back up after defeated' as much more fitting than 'not going down in the first place'. And yeah, it's really hard to trigger. 1 in 6 per guy, and it stops working once you are removed. And then, since most of the time your opponent is rolling, if that six comes up, they reroll it.
I've had a mini or two been 'healed' of their flesh wounds, but more often than not, I can go through a game without a single mini being triggered.
Now, if it was instead the same roll that everyone else had, and then I'd just lay my model down, and each turn roll a d6, and stand them back up on a 5+, I think that would work better and be more fitting to how the necrons feel. Maybe only a 6+ if the team is broken? I don't know, but I'm not feeling that it's overly useful.
iGuy91 wrote: It just me though, or does RP still kind of suck?
DarknessEternal wrote: It may not be as good as Disgustingly Resilient, but it's infinitely better than it is in 40k.
I prefer the 40k version, but clearly that won't work in this setting. I find the idea of 'getting back up after defeated' as much more fitting than 'not going down in the first place'. And yeah, it's really hard to trigger. 1 in 6 per guy, and it stops working once you are removed. And then, since most of the time your opponent is rolling, if that six comes up, they reroll it.
I've had a mini or two been 'healed' of their flesh wounds, but more often than not, I can go through a game without a single mini being triggered.
Now, if it was instead the same roll that everyone else had, and then I'd just lay my model down, and each turn roll a d6, and stand them back up on a 5+, I think that would work better and be more fitting to how the necrons feel. Maybe only a 6+ if the team is broken? I don't know, but I'm not feeling that it's overly useful.
I would much prefer something like that. Nothing like being cut down by Hormogaunts in CC and having a 1/6 chance to stand back up, but then getting blown apart by a heavy venom cannon and going all T-1000.
And there are so many 1 damage weapons that it really feels like we're working in reverse from how we should.
Wow, I totally missed the part where the attacker rolls the injury roll most of the time, despite their great pains to point it out. That does make RP even worse. I played my first Necron game yesterday, 5 Immortals and 2 FO against some Nyds in Search and Rescue. Overall I did better than I had expected, but he managed to swarm the objective on the last turn with a good initiative roll. I'll have to try proxying in some Pariahs as DM in my next game to see if they do any better (been on a bit of a 40k hiatus).
Played against Primaris last night, and they are just so much better. Typically cheaper, longer range weapons, better weapon options, more HP, more attacks, and ignoring first flesh wound was much more beneficial than a slightly stronger gun that was -2AP instead of -1AP, and a "reanimation" that triggered exactly 1 time...and he used a CP to reroll it. Definitely felt overpriced as he cut through more and more of my guys...
I was gonna say, honestly, my best games so far have been against primaris/space marines. My hardest was against death guard, and was realllllly annoying.
Played the "destroy facility" mission last night, taking an unusua team of 2 deathmark (leader + comms) and 7 flayed ones (combat + zealot). Why? because I went up against GSC before, and with their 13 bodies, was overwhelmed by numbers. This time, with bodies a little more even, I managed to destroy two pieces of the facility, and snatch a victory.
Had some terrible rolling (about 80% of my roles were below 3), but managed to hold fast enough to keep my main guys alive on two of the three turns, so it's a win all around. Wouldn't take that team normally, but thought it would be interesting to test it out (It did make the shooting phase very boring!)
It might, but nids bring lots of melee attacks and some shooting; GSC worked because there were three genestealers (who were still nasty), but a whole lot of guys with guns who I could tie up in melee. The melee troops vs ranged troops was what really helped in that case.
I think RP compares pretty well to DR actually, especially with 2+ damage weapons, it's just DG combine it with 3+ saves on everyone and (the real kicker) toughness 5. You get wounds through more rarely, so those DR procs sting more. Really you need plasma (and ideally overcharged) to take those guys down. Possibly as a meta call you might do well in a tournament if people are teched to take on DR or Primaris... But, ofc, you can just choose not to use overcharge.
I've found the real trouble Necrons have is just a weak offense. Maybe we are tough, but our choice of weapons is uninspiring to say the least. Flayed Ones seem like they'd be good in combat, but they have no AP and no base Str boost... they're basically as good as an Ork with a Choppa for twice the points (sure, harder to take out). Sure, they're amazing in combat... compared to an Immortal, but they just get cut apart by ACTUAL combat specialists.
I don't even know what they do to fix it, because Necrons in 40k also have a crippling lack of options. The one option we do have, Tesla vs Gauss, the right option like 80% of the time is Gauss anyway. Wraiths would be great units as they have multidamage, cool special abilities, and some equipment options, but they're going to blow your point budget right away.
I've picked up a Scion team just to have some fun building a list, as all I get to do with my Necrons is fiddle with the number of each troop.
I would have liked to see a lychguard, even if it was expensive. But considering how other "really expensive" units have had drops in prices for KT, I could see them getting a slight dip - maybe 25 points each? That makes them as expensive as a Lictor, and honestly, not as good. (slower, less WS, no ranged, weaker, less wounds, less attacks...it's only their gear, save, and RP that could make them worthwhile).
hey, since they let harlies and reivers have their pseudo-flight, and Tau stealthsuits have actual flight, it could be nice to see some praetorians in (or even just one?). With no dynasties, they aren't as poor a choice as in 40k, so that would be a nice way of getting something different into our KT.
I need to get a few more games in but I can't shake the feeling that Necrons are a bit weak. It's a combination of lots of little things: high points cost, no weapon/upgrade options, almost no melee choice, no heavy / multi-damage weapons and RP mostly sucking due to the low probability & opponent just re-rolling it.
Any one or two of those you could live with, but all added up means I'm not loving playing them. Time to look for a second faction to play, at very least to mix things up
Although Ive won my (only) two games vs. Admech (a lot of mistakes on both sides) I clearly had luck on my side like:
plasma selfdestroy even after reroll, charges that didnt make it,
somehow saved all 3+ sv in meele, killed infiltrators with Deathmarks in meele, all in all some really hot dice on my side and not so hot on my opponents side.
I too think that necrons are low tier. We lack basically everything.
We have NOT enough bodies to play and hold the obj.
NO multidmg weapons
NO mobility
Not strong enough shooting (only 1shot, 2 if in 12“ but then we get assaulted)
RUBISH in melee
NO options
slightly ocercosted (GW overestimated our tankyness again or is still doing it)
The only thing going for us is RP which gets rerolled anyway.
Just funny how they managed to make Necrons terrible in 40k AND Kill Team. Really shows the objectivity and love for this faction . As if we have to suffer because of 7th ed.
So, in campaign play: should the necrons' "reanimation protocol" effect the post-game casualty roll (the one made for any model with a flesh wound, but who is still on the field). Normally, 1-3 is "recovered", and 4-6 is "out of action"; should that reflect our RP during the game?
(note - I realise that, by the rules, it doesn't; rather, I'm asking *should* it - would that be appropriate, is it something that should be changed?)
Kinda sad ‚cause my local store started a KT campaign which is fun but by just looking at the other lists I just dont want to bring Necrons.
Every time it feels like an uphill battle even against „fluffy“ soft lists its just boring, plus one round of shooting on 5s with only 1 shot isnt really fun either...
Necrons are just a boring KT as of now...period.
EDIT: What I mean with boring is that Necrons dont feel like a specialized KT...Its just a deathmark rerolling ones or an Immortal „Leader“...
So I feel like the Commanders expansion is really good news for Necrons. With the addition of an Overlord to the team we can now run a warscythe to rip through the models that were previously our most troubling opponents.
I wonder what else we'll get. With "40+" commanders, we should be seeing ~2 or 3 each...could we get a cryptek, or a lord? Three different commanders for different styles of play?
hvg3akaek wrote: I wonder what else we'll get. With "40+" commanders, we should be seeing ~2 or 3 each...could we get a cryptek, or a lord? Three different commanders for different styles of play?
How about a Lychguard? Wouldn't mind sword & board with INV saves. And right now Flayed Ones are inadequate for CC counterpunching.
I think we can be pretty sure we'll get a Cryptek commander. A Lord or Destroyer Lord or much less likely due to not having plastic models, and obviously a Command Barge is out of the question.
On a more general topic, I've switched to a team of all Flayed Ones and I've gone undefeated since then after having 1 game with gun guys.
You very much have to play the game as a game though and lawyer out the wins. Flayed Ones are just tough enough that they can do that while still sort of being a horde.
I don't usually kill more than 1-2 enemies per mission, but that's not what Necrons do.
hvg3akaek wrote: I wonder what else we'll get. With "40+" commanders, we should be seeing ~2 or 3 each...could we get a cryptek, or a lord? Three different commanders for different styles of play?
How about a Lychguard? Wouldn't mind sword & board with INV saves. And right now Flayed Ones are inadequate for CC counterpunching.
Would love to see some Lychguard (or Praetorians to combat the Reivers / Harlies?) as standard "tougher" choices; but am hoping that they would be more numerous (and cheaper) than what the Commanders are looking at being.
Are flayed ones something I should look into getting?They're the one necron thing I don't have.
I've seen so many varying opinions on their usefulness, but most lists seem to sport at least one.
so it looks like the necron armies are getting messed around once again. Every Kill Teams team set so far has had a saving (some more significant than others), but our set seems to be the same price as purchasing the minis + the scenery separately...
gaddok wrote: Are flayed ones something I should look into getting?They're the one necron thing I don't have.
I've seen so many varying opinions on their usefulness, but most lists seem to sport at least one.
They are the best unit Necrons have.
Necrons already have pitiful damage output, and Flayed Ones are the most efficient at it.
gaddok wrote: Are flayed ones something I should look into getting?They're the one necron thing I don't have.
I've seen so many varying opinions on their usefulness, but most lists seem to sport at least one.
While I'm not enthusiastic about them you do need at least 1 CC specialist to counterpunch, or your ranged specialists will be tied up in melee for too long (if not taken OoA).
so it looks like the necron armies are getting messed around once again. Every Kill Teams team set so far has had a saving (some more significant than others), but our set seems to be the same price as purchasing the minis + the scenery separately...
Ah ha. And it's Wall of Martyrs terrain too. Not a fan. Will give it miss most likely.
Okay, now from a business stand point, I understand why GW is putting Wall of Martyrs in both the Tau & Necron KT boxes as opposed to Tau fortifications. So far the KT boxes tie into the Killzone, and Killzone: Tau Defense Line would not sell well enough for GW, whereas many Imperium players would buy Killzone:: Sector Wall of Martyrs. That's the business side and ultimately GW will make production decisions on that aspect. Fluffwise it bothers me slightly that Necrons and Tau are fighting Spec Ops actions in Imperial-themed terrain as opposed to their own. Not possible for Necrons at this time unless you use 3rd party terrain, but Tau have their own fortifications. And from a Necron POV, I'd rather our Tomb Worlds were awakening beneath Tau septs as opposed to Tau Pathfinder teams sabotaging Tomb Worlds.
Deathless Ire looks fun (and hilarious: the idea of a Necron just being so ANGRY they've been shot they can't even return fire is great) and very nice to use on a model that has already fired or attacked. Seeing as the first Injury often only has a 1/6 chance of OOA this can potentially extend the life of a key model considerably.
Superior Inheritance, though, looks GREAT. Our standard weapons (Gauss Blaster especially) are really solid against regular troops, so stack this with another ability (comms or Targeting Routines) to really dish out some damage. And only 1 cp! An absolute bargain. Its like having another immortal on the table positioned right by your best shooter!
Fair enough (circling might have helped a bit more )
It's crazy what they seem to think - especially when talking about how it might be better to take more of them than a smaller number of far more efficient immortals...
FAQ went up for Kill Team. Main changes for Necrons:
1) Tesla procs on an unmodified 6 to hit, making it not entirely useless but probably still worse than Gauss
2) Yes, you have to take the highest Injury roll, so multidamage is good for us
Some other clarifications in rules and stuff but it helps a bit.
Requizen wrote: 1) Tesla procs on an unmodified 6 to hit, making it not entirely useless but probably still worse than Gauss.
Interestingly, by my initial mathhammering, it looks like (without cover penalties) the gauss v tesla is equal, though tesla excels at long range, and gauss at 1/2 range. No surprises there.
Once you throw in some cover, though, or other penalties (eg flesh wounds), tesla seem far more favourable - even against solid armoured foes. At least, whilst distance remains. At short range, they end up being roughly equal.
Next friday im going to give the necrons a last try with the new stratagem.
5x Immortals with Gauss (one is the leader, one the comms, one the sniper)
2x Flayed ones (one is zealot or combat spec.)
If this wont do im going to drop my necron KT as after some games its just no fun. Im still going to be a silent reader in this forum to see if people have come up with something im missing
First 3 player game last night, Necrons pulled off the win by virtue of not dying Both other teams were suffering from Shaken and Broken in the last couple of turns. Fairly standard loadout of 3 Immortals, 2 Deathmarks, 2 Flayed Ones. Flayed Ones (the Zealot especially) were amazing this game, pretty much the first time they've made a proper big impact.
Several times wished I had the new tactics, the tireless advance on in particular looks AMAZING, pretty much exactly what we needed. And for only 1CP! When we get onto a campaign I'm absolutely going to be levelling up a Comms Immortal to farm those CPs.
We had a three-way game last night - necron v tau v space marines. I don't like these multiple-player games, as in our meta, my friends always decide i'm the biggest threat, and take me out first.
So the tau decimated my necrons on round 1, and I never recovered. SM found the relic, and held it strongly enough that by the end of the game (round 4), they still easily held it.
So i had the one game against my friend
he took his admech
5x Immortals (2x Tesla on Leader and coms, one vet)
2x FOs (1 combat)
First game endet in 5mins in a loss for me...
He did all his charges with his ruststalkers and killed the „tuff“ immortals, RP never came into play.
The dice god being funny made me fail morale on a 11 and so my team was shaken...I called it there and asked for a rematch as this was a joke of a game...
2nd game was closer.
I had some terrible luck with dice again (his plasma sniper and infiltrator leader had 3 flesh wounds each).
The terrain was better for me as he couldnt charge my coms and leader but still managed to kill my leader in shooting.
In the end i managed to win on points because the game went into 6th round and he decided to go for the objectives instead of for the kills with his leader (my vet had already 2flesh wounds). Two of his models got shaken and werent holding the obj. anymore.
Even though Ive won it wasnt really „fun“ for me
my specialist FO finally did something (killed something) but got destroyed in his next round. I did spend the 2CP on the new tactic MWs on 6+ to wound.
the other flayed one did nothing and couldnt even kill a ranger...died the next round...
I like the new tactic to shoot twice or move and be ready to shoot.
Still...im dropping the necrons for KT...playing them feels so unrewarding...the SLIGHTEST mistake will cost you the game and it just feels like an uphill battle. You pray everytime you make a save roll. FOs get kited...a 10points model...Immortals may be good but not 16points good...I was quite mad about this and kinda feel a little bit stupid why it got into my head so much but it is just really „no fun“. 2shots max wont cut it...plus for most of the time you hit on 4s. If you stayed stationary first round probably on 5s...with one shot each...I probably DID mistakes and stupid decisions but ill just repeat myself...it was just no fun
TL;DR
Necrons are no fun in KT, no customization plus high point cost but low dmg output and low survivability
So after 25 games of Killteam. 18 of which I won and 7 I lost or drew. I think I can make a good synopsis on our models and how we are as a Killteam.
We are pretty much an Elite style Killteam. Limited in KT size but we have good stats across the board. Our units are pretty much suited for nearly every situation and model. The new Stratagems that we got has given us a pretty good amount of power.
I think our Armies are better suited for Campaign style games rather than matched and open play for 3 reasons.
1) in the campaign you pick your Killteam after you pick mission. This gives you an advantage as you know what to bring for said mission and as you opponent nominates a models you can nominate a model to take that one down e.g. you see that they take a Gaunts, Gstealer etc so you take a warrior or Tesla immo etc
2) picking Specialist isn't as important due to Fire teams (read point 3). So, you can take a Tax Flayed One Leader and fill the rest of the points with a Necron fire team. Also, as the campaign goes on you can decide to add more points to your KT pool so while your models get expensive as the campaign goes on you can add more points to your pool to not feel as restricted.
3) thanks to the power of Fire teams, RP and terrain we are nearly unkillable. When your Fire team upgrades all your models in that fire team share that upgrade e.g. you have a fire team of 4 immos and 1 deathmark. As long as one 2 of those modles are in a game and/or killed an enemy model. every model in the fire team gain an EXP. When you roll to see what benefit you get. If you roll a 6 you get an -1 to your injury roll. What does that mean? Well. Put your models behind terrain because of your fire teams -1 and the terrains -1. On a 1-5 we take a flesh wound. On a 6 we get RP. We are pretty much unkillable during the 1st injury rolls for our fire team units.
There is also other upgrades like re-roll 1 to save rolls, wound rolls, hit rolls, add 1 to movement and charge/assault. With those buffs you basically don't need a Sniper deathmark as it's cheaper and better to go in a Fire team and multiple dmarks can benefit form it. Tesla also benefits. HUGELY.
basically. If your planning on playing us. Do it in a campaign where you have as much advanctage as possible. Matched and open played are jsut to random due to someone picking s bad mission to play or being s gun army vs speed and combat.
Odrankt wrote: you have a fire team of 4 immos and 1 deathmark. .
This is not a fire team - this is two separate fire teams.
From the rulebook:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet.
Thus, all non-specialist immortals are one fire team, all non-specialist deathmarks are one fire team, and all non-specialist flayed ones are a fire team. (and no one should take warriors, so let's ignore them )
But yes, that result of 6 would be nice - shame that it's only going to happen on the first roll one in six campaigns (unless you want to throw away a team and start the XP track again...)
Odrankt wrote: you have a fire team of 4 immos and 1 deathmark. .
This is not a fire team - this is two separate fire teams.
From the rulebook:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet.
Thus, all non-specialist immortals are one fire team, all non-specialist deathmarks are one fire team, and all non-specialist flayed ones are a fire team. (and no one should take warriors, so let's ignore them )
But yes, that result of 6 would be nice - shame that it's only going to happen on the first roll one in six campaigns (unless you want to throw away a team and start the XP track again...)
All non-specialist are a Fire team. You can only have 1 fire team at a time which can be a mixture of any models. You only lose the fire team if you disembanted them or if the fire team dies.
Can you please quote rules that support any of these things?
Once again, the rulebook (page 204) says:
The non-specialist models in your collection are organised into fire teams
(note: plural on fire teams)
and:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet
(note: single data-sheet. necrons have four data sheets, and thus could have up to 4 fire teams.)
(also, each fire team needs to be chosen from a single data sheet, thus it could not be made up of "a mix of any models")
hvg3akaek wrote: You have made three statements here that I believe are incorrect and are unsupported by what I have read, and what I have quoted above. They are:
Can you please quote rules that support any of these things?
Once again, the rulebook (page 204) says:
The non-specialist models in your collection are organised into fire teams
(note: plural on fire teams)
and:
each fire team consists of all of the non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet
(note: single data-sheet. necrons have four data sheets, and thus could have up to 4 fire teams.)
(also, each fire team needs to be chosen from a single data sheet, thus it could not be made up of "a mix of any models")
...yes, that's the Designer's Commentary. Good find.
Nothing in there agrees with your points.
Everything in there on Fire Teams agrees with my previous points, and the quotes I've made from the main rules.
And, by simply posting a screen shot (really? A screen shot of a pdf?) without any context, it is not reflecting on your ability to read and understand rules. You may have played lots of games, but you've clearly misread / been mis-taught the campaign rules here. I suggest sitting down and carefully re-reading them with fresh eyes and no initial opinions.
In case you are still not convinced, let's go through every iteration of "fire team" from the director's commentary and see what it says...
The kill team can also include any number of models chosen from a datasheet for which you do not have a fire team (so, for example, if you only have an Intercessor fire team on your command roster, you could freely add Reivers to your kill team) – again, the only restrictions here are the normal limits for Battle-forged kill teams. Add these new models to your command roster.
This one clearly shows that the Intercessor fire team and the Reivers fire team are separate things. Adding models from a datasheet (Reivers) for which you do not have a fire team (only fire team is Intercessors) means you can freely add them, instead of the usual "match them up one-for-one with a member of the current fire team". This specifically contradicts your #1 and #3 claims.
This kill team can also include new models for existing fire teams, subject to the restrictions on adding new models to a fire team (see below).
Note again - "fire teams", plural. The Designer's Commentary assumes you can have multiple fire teams, contradicting your #1 claim.
(page 7)
Q: How do I add new models to a fire team during a campaign? A: When you choose a kill team for a mission, you can include one new member of a fire team (and add that model to your command roster) for each existing member of the fire team that you include in your kill team. So, if I wanted to add two new Reivers to an existing Reiver fire team, I would need to choose those two new Reivers to be in my kill team for the next mission, alongside at least two existing Reivers (other than Specialists) from my command roster. The two new Reivers would be New Recruits, as described in Adding Members to a Fire Team in the Kill Team Core Manual.
Once again, we have a specific example: "Revier Fire Team". Not "Space Marine Fire Team", made up of every datasheet in the Space Marine army. Just one, for one datasheet. If you want new members for it, you can add Reivers, as long as you have one-for-one Reivers from the current Fire Team pair up with them to show them the works. This goes against your #3 claim, and highly suggests that claim #1 and #2 are also at fault.
Q: If I disband a fire team, how do I later add models from that datasheet to my command roster? A: If you do not have a fire team for a datasheet (because you disbanded them, or they have all been killed, or you just haven’t chosen any yet) you can add any number of models from that datasheet to your command roster by including them in the kill team you choose for your next mission.
For this question, even the question itself shows that your claims are in error. It ties together the idea of a fire team and a specific datasheet - as does the answer. It is not a case of not having a fire team, but not having a fire team for a specific datasheet. Once again, as the core rules state, each fire team is tied to a specific datasheet. This contradicts all three of your claims.
Q: Can a fire team of a single model gain experience? A: Yes. A fire team of a single model gains 1 experience point after a mission if at least one enemy model was taken out of action during that mission by an attack made or psychic power manifested by that model (or another model from that model’s fire team that was later killed).
This mention doesn't help much in either way, other than to say that it's viable to have a single model fire team. Now, most of us know that this can happen because each fire team is collected from its own datacard, not just the only non-specialist in a kill team of 5...
Q: Do New Recruits in an experienced fire team also cost the increased amount of points listed under Crack Troops? A: Yes.
Nothing either way here.
Q: I have a fire team of two experienced models and one New Recruit. In the next battle, the New Recruit survives but both experienced models die. What happens?
A: The New Recruit gains the fire team’s experience and advances. They do not gain one experience point for taking part in the mission. However, they could still gain one experience point after the mission if at least one enemy model was taken out of action during that mission by an attack made or psychic power manifested by that model (or another model from that model’s fire team that was later killed).
Nothing either way here.
Q: Can I choose not to assign a model to a fire team?
A: No. All non-specialist models chosen from a single datasheet always form a fire team.
This one restates the core rulebook - namely, that a single datasheet is used when forming fire teams. If your army has four datasheets (as Necrons do), then you can have four fire teams. Nice and simple - and contradicts all three of your claims.
Q: How are models that are not part of fire teams (like DS8 Tactical Support Turrets and Drones) added to a command roster in a campaign? A: They can be added to your kill team (and your command roster) in the same way as new Specialists (but they do not count as Specialists).
And, a side case for models that are not even a part of fire teams.
So - there we have it. A whole lot more evidence that all three of your claims are incorrect, and are against not only the Kill Team core rules, but also against the Designer's Commentary. And not a shred of evidence to support any of them.
They showed some of the necron commander tactics. Resurrection Orb costs 3 points and can bring an Out of Action necron back to life on a 2+ and it is placed within 3" of the Overlord.
The kill-team Res Orb is objectively better and more like what it should be compared to the Codex res orb.
It's interesting how all these new things to roll for (such as the Res Orb) interact with the Reroll tactic. That is - rolling a 1 after spending 3CP is really going to suck, and there's no reroll allowed!
Yup - really hoping that the bring an "Elites" expansion soon. And not just "Elites" (followed in a month or two by "Fast Attack", then "Heavy Support"...) But rather, any units that could be in KT but currently aren't. So, lychguard, praetorians, even scarabs?
Disappointed they have this "mostly anti finecast" attitude. Would have loved seeing a Lord option in there too, just for those of us who have plenty of them spare!
Hey, could I ask why Warriors are considered to be bad? 12pts I guess is a lot, but they do have RP which seems pretty tanky if behind cover and -1AP which is quite nice for a small scale game.
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey, could I ask why Warriors are considered to be bad? 12pts I guess is a lot, but they do have RP which seems pretty tanky if behind cover and -1AP which is quite nice for a small scale game.
Sure!
Compare them to Immortals (with Gauss).
Warriors are identical, except for: Points: 12 vs 16 Saves: 4+ vs 3+ Weapon Strength: 4 vs 5 Weapon AP: -1 vs -2
So, against the same target, they have the same change of hitting. However, they will wound more frequently, and (unless the target has a 6+ save) get through the armour more frequently.
If you calculate their damage output, at max range (so with -1 to hit), targeting a space marine, it comes out like:
(chance to hit) x (chance to wound) x (chance to fail save) Warrior: (3/6) x (3/6) x (3/6) = 0.125 damage per shot Immortal: (3/6) x (4/6) x (4/6) = 0.222 damage per shot
But of course, immortals are more expensive. Per point, it comes out as:
Thus, Immortals are putting out roughly 40% more damage than Warriors. And that doesn't even include the fact that they have that effective +1 to their saves.
So, in short - they do more damage and are sturdier, and are overall more points efficient.
Daetya wrote: Doesn't take in account that you win games by taking objectives, and more cheaper models are more effective at doing that than few elite ones
Yeah this is what I was thinking. You make a lot of obviously good points but, warriors seem good to get an extra model in there for objective capping. And with RP, they seem pretty resilient to do it
For 100 points, you could have 6 immortals, or 8 warriors. Or, 5 immortals and 2 flayed ones (7 bodies total).
Stick them in cover, and you have 3+ saves and injury rolls that only kill on a 5. I haven't minded the "lower" model count so far - against eldar or dark eldar, tyranid swarms, or Ad Mech. Often, I still have more models (vs tyranid monsters, space marines, or thousand sons).
hvg3akaek wrote: For 100 points, you could have 6 immortals, or 8 warriors. Or, 5 immortals and 2 flayed ones (7 bodies total).
Stick them in cover, and you have 3+ saves and injury rolls that only kill on a 5. I haven't minded the "lower" model count so far - against eldar or dark eldar, tyranid swarms, or Ad Mech. Often, I still have more models (vs tyranid monsters, space marines, or thousand sons).
This is also true. I just want an excuse to use my swathe of warrior models. Tell me they don't suck!
iGuy91 wrote: What sort of wargear we talking when it comes to the OL?
i assume that they can take a WarScythe maybe?
The Novokh Overlord that comes in his own box has a Voidscythe so we'll at least have that as another option. No telling if hyperphase swords etc will also be available but given that they are options in the codex I would be inclined to guess yes.
Yeah, I can't imagine wanting anything other than the two scythe variants. Necrons need a multi-wound killer, and right now the Overlord commander is our only option.
Unfortunately, using a Comander to fill the gaping holes in the regular team is not any kind of answer. The teams who already have no weaknesses will also be using a Commander who just makes them light years better .
Necrons suck, we can either sit here and moan about it or figure out what our best options to compete with other kill teams are. Right now the Scythe Overlord fills a gaping hole in our list, that's going to help us more than another faction who's list is already complete and further power is only supplementary.
I really don't think they suck in Kill Team, we're not up at the top tier with DG, and we lack some tools (multi damage weapons especially), but we're tough, more so with the tactics in our team box, and Leadership is absolutely not to be underestimated. It's a rare game I've played where morale does not play a part (if nothing else, a whole bunch of missions are won instantly on a break test).
My gut is that we're a really solid mid-tier, we struggle with some missions and do well in others; we can stand on points with slim chances of dying, and we're not a bad call against a Plasma meta (no charge only wounding on 3s, overcharge gives us 30% chance of insta heal/only 44% chance of OOA on an injury roll). But, we struggle far more with any mission that require mobility, I think the only way to win Terror Tactics is basically to get all the points from killing your enemy Especially now it's errata'd!
I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
skoffs wrote: I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
No since Tesla has been changed to natural 6 so no modifiers...
to your other question its going to be probably 200p as they said in the preview the Broodlord can be a one man army at 192p fully equipped and lvled up.
If we dont see any point changes for our commanders were still going to be pretty bad as our HQs are quite pricey...plus id like to know the buffof a cryptek
skoffs wrote: I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
All the narrative / balanced missions in the book are 200 point missions but one that is 100 point, but in not all of them you "must" have a Commander. In some occasions the mission states that one team has a Commander and the other doesn't.
That special one is weird, because is a Kill Team vs 1 Commander mission (a boss fight), but that Commander can only cost 100 points or less... and there's more than one Commander that costs more than 100 points at lvl 1 without any improvements. Even the GK Commander is 103 points at minimum lvl, and that faction has no other options.
Any point drops for our commanders in this expansion?
Edit: Yes! Cryptek is 44points and Overlord stays at his 86(?)points BUT all the weapon upgrades are for free.
Now I dont see why someone would EVER take a Cryptek...Hes just a Warrior with 4wounds and tactics (only one is actually good to ignore injuries on your models WITHIN 3“!!!)
Overlord takes this one.
Now I dont get why GW still sticks to 3“ auras for crypteks...especially in KT sticking together means getting charged and this is game over for crons
skoffs wrote: I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
No since Tesla has been changed to natural 6 so no modifiers...
to your other question its going to be probably 200p as they said in the preview the Broodlord can be a one man army at 192p fully equipped and lvled up.
If we dont see any point changes for our commanders were still going to be pretty bad as our HQs are quite pricey...plus id like to know the buffof a cryptek
Waiiiit...wait....what the hell was that about Tesla?
The FAQ errata'd Tesla weapons so that they proc on an unmodified 6 rather than 6+. They'd already changed Plasma to overheat on unmodified 1s in the core rules, with the vast number of modifiers from rules and special abilities I guess it keeps things more simple.
Yeah, otherwise, with any cover, any long range, any flesh wounds, or any other penalty to shooting, you'd only trigger tesla with bonuses - sometimes, substantial bonuses.
And once you get close in, gauss is still better.
It gives us an option at long range, as opposed to tesla being purely terrible.
So Tesla on a 6 to hit does not care about the -1 for distance, but it can't benefit from MWBD's +1 to hit, either.
I guess that's a fair trade off.
I'm kinda liking the idea of a team of Deathmarks next to an Overlord (so they're all hitting on 2+ from 24" away). If only there was a way to let them reroll their to wound rolls, too...
skoffs wrote: So Tesla on a 6 to hit does not care about the -1 for distance, but it can't benefit from MWBD's +1 to hit, either.
I guess that's a fair trade off.
I'm kinda liking the idea of a team of Deathmarks next to an Overlord (so they're all hitting on 2+ from 24" away). If only there was a way to let them reroll their to wound rolls, too...
You still get the minus for obscured so usually hitting on 3s...Plus you wamt them to get close as our sniper rifles are rapid fire too...then you have to ask yourself if you really want to spend 15p on a boltgun with 6s to wound effect...PLUSPLUS you dont get to use the double shooting strat as it limits the usage to Gauss Weapons (Im not 100% sure on that one)
Well, can't say I'm overly impressed with our Commander options. A 2 point aura that is not really that much better than anyone else's 1 points (most charging minis will move out of the aura, no one really wants to advance, else they won't shoot...); and a cryptek who allows people to ignore a flesh wound...instead of removing a flesh wound, which I see at least two other commanders have. That would have been a little more repair-y, yes?
Ah well - anyone spotted some neat tricks with the specialisms yet?
So I have been going through the commander book as well as all our Stratgems to see what kind of buffs our Commanders can get. And, tbf, we can become quite bulky.
for 126pts you can take a lvl 3 Fortitude Overlord that gains the following;
6+ FnP,
Re-roll injury roll on this model once per turn. And,
Either -1 to our injury rolls or a pysker deny.
This makes the Overlord pretty godly if you ask me. 5w, T5, 6+ FnP, a pysker deny and a weapon that wounds basically everything on 2s. Besides anything T6 (there is a way around that).
Another great option is a lvl 3 Leadership Overlord. Which gains the following;
-1 to nerve test,
3" sure buff (MWBD = 9"),
When you use an aura tactic (MWBD) roll a d6, gain a CP on a 3+. Basically making MWBD a 1CP gem.
While this isn't as tanky as Fortitude, this overlord basically makes all your other necron models better by giving them all 2+ BS before modifiers and if backed by FOs they all hit on 2s as well.
Those are the best specialist I could think of for the Overlord. Also, it should he suggested that if you give your Commander a Commander trait, give them the +D3 CPs for 15pts just to make sure you have the CPs you need to pull off some combos.
Now for the gems. Unless stated otherwise. All necron gems that we have can target our Commanders (unless stated otherwise like mentioning specific models names). So, with that. Here are my top 3 necron gems that Overlord can and should use from necron stratgems.
1 - prime reanimation protocols - 2CP - While this gem is gakk for our RP models. It is pretty good for an Overlord (and no, you don't need RP to use them them). Basically when you take an injury roll you can add an extra die and your opponent has to pick to lowest die. Why is this good? Well it stops your commander dying on 4/5/6 by making the opponent pick the lowest die roll. Pretty solid gem if your being attacked with a weapon with lots of DMG
2 - entropic strike - 1CP - when a model is reduced to 0 wounds and you make the injury roll you can add +1 to the roll. This lets us kill things on a 3+ before modifiers giving the Olord a 66% chance of killing whatever he is in CC with before doing the math on the 3 injury rolls. So, see that commander you want dead? Charge, do dmg, pop gem, Necrons are OP.
3 - disruption fields - 1CP - +1 strength for this model in CC. Makes the Olord s6 and with Voidscythe you are now S12 basically meaning anything you fight is getting wounded on 2s. EVERYTHING. This gem pairs really well with Vendetta. For those that did not buy the Necron Commander Box. This is what Vendetta does;
Vendetta - 1CP - if your army includes an Overlord, pick A faction keyword e.g. Tyranids. Your overlord gets to re-roll 1s to hit and wound against all model with that Faction keyword. So, when paired with Disruption fields, for 2CPs you get hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s (unless you have a way to get +1 to hit) plus wounding on 2s, re-rolling 1s.
That's just amazing.
I will he doing tactic videos on all of the above plus move so if people have suggestions please let me know and I'll record whatever content you guys would like.
Odrankt wrote: So I have been going through the commander book as well as all our Stratgems to see what kind of buffs our Commanders can get. And, tbf, we can become quite bulky.
for 126pts you can take a lvl 3 Fortitude Overlord that gains the following;
6+ FnP,
Re-roll injury roll on this model once per turn. And,
Either -1 to our injury rolls or a pysker deny.
This makes the Overlord pretty godly if you ask me. 5w, T5, 6+ FnP, a pysker deny and a weapon that wounds basically everything on 2s. Besides anything T6 (there is a way around that).
Another great option is a lvl 3 Leadership Overlord. Which gains the following;
-1 to nerve test,
3" sure buff (MWBD = 9"),
When you use an aura tactic (MWBD) roll a d6, gain a CP on a 3+. Basically making MWBD a 1CP gem.
While this isn't as tanky as Fortitude, this overlord basically makes all your other necron models better by giving them all 2+ BS before modifiers and if backed by FOs they all hit on 2s as well.
Those are the best specialist I could think of for the Overlord. Also, it should he suggested that if you give your Commander a Commander trait, give them the +D3 CPs for 15pts just to make sure you have the CPs you need to pull off some combos.
Now for the gems. Unless stated otherwise. All necron gems that we have can target our Commanders (unless stated otherwise like mentioning specific models names). So, with that. Here are my top 3 necron gems that Overlord can and should use from necron stratgems.
1 - prime reanimation protocols - 2CP - While this gem is gakk for our RP models. It is pretty good for an Overlord (and no, you don't need RP to use them them). Basically when you take an injury roll you can add an extra die and your opponent has to pick to lowest die. Why is this good? Well it stops your commander dying on 4/5/6 by making the opponent pick the lowest die roll. Pretty solid gem if your being attacked with a weapon with lots of DMG
2 - entropic strike - 1CP - when a model is reduced to 0 wounds and you make the injury roll you can add +1 to the roll. This lets us kill things on a 3+ before modifiers giving the Olord a 66% chance of killing whatever he is in CC with before doing the math on the 3 injury rolls. So, see that commander you want dead? Charge, do dmg, pop gem, Necrons are OP.
3 - disruption fields - 1CP - +1 strength for this model in CC. Makes the Olord s6 and with Voidscythe you are now S12 basically meaning anything you fight is getting wounded on 2s. EVERYTHING. This gem pairs really well with Vendetta. For those that did not buy the Necron Commander Box. This is what Vendetta does;
Vendetta - 1CP - if your army includes an Overlord, pick A faction keyword e.g. Tyranids. Your overlord gets to re-roll 1s to hit and wound against all model with that Faction keyword. So, when paired with Disruption fields, for 2CPs you get hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s (unless you have a way to get +1 to hit) plus wounding on 2s, re-rolling 1s.
That's just amazing.
I will he doing tactic videos on all of the above plus move so if people have suggestions please let me know and I'll record whatever content you guys would like.
This really sounds nice! Our Overlord is almost an one man army
I just see a problem with the KT rules themselves...Actually you have your roster and pick units out of it AFTER you know the mission and more or less what your opponent takes...So if someone just tailors against the OLord and actually kills him its probably game over :/
Its still sounds like tons of fun to at least try it ones...
One LVL3 OLord plus 4Immortals and 1 Flayed one are exactly 200points
Might be worth trying out
You don't have to bring a commander unless stated otherwise. Some games only let you or your opponent bring a commander. T5, 5w, 3+/4++ and healing a wound a turn means that this guy is sticking around. Giving him Fortitude just makes him more tanky.
If you are able to pick your Killteam before a game, Pick your Overlord last. There are only several weapon with +6 S in KT and even if the Olord does get hit and wounded there is severl ways too reduce the dmg for injury rolls or pass on the dmg to another model e.g. Look Out Sir.
I'm wondering if anyone's come up against Deathguard successfully. I've fought them and lost twice in a row, now. Not that they wipe me out, but that I cannot wipe them, and thus they collect all the points.
Friday's game was a three-way that turned into 2v1 halfway through, and we still lost. The third party was Tau.
I had 2x Immortals (Tesla) as my leader and comms, 3x Immortals (Gauss), and 2x Flayed Ones (combat and zealot).
DG had four marines (leader with plasma, combat with some big cleaver, heavy with blight launcher, and the fourth had a heavy flamer, but was taken out with the first shot from the tau). And then had seven pox walkers.
Tau had a fusion stealth suit, two shield drones, three gun drones, a fire warrior and missile turret, two pathfinders (one with rail rifle), and the big pathfinder drone.
We all had small points that we held, but DG made it into the centre point (+3VP per round), and we could not budge him. Partly, this was poor rolling - my immortals loved their 1 and 2's, and the DG seemed to be making about 80% of their FNP rolls. But even then, it felt that there were just too many of them to take them down.
What would be one of their biggest disadvantages (their slowness - which necrons have too) is totally negated by the pox walkers having no guns, so they advance all the time. And two of the marines advance (heavy with assault, and one other). Whereas if anyone but my Flayed Ones advances, they cannot shoot. And if the FO are advancing, they are not charging!
A similar thing happened in the previous game. Same teams, but with Orks as the third party. They were slaughtered by both DG and Necron, but Necron couldn't move DG, and DG ran all over the board, resulting in the end game being Necron holding one point, and DG holding three.
So - any thoughts, tips? Similar stories? Or do I just keep doing the same thing, hoping that my silver march will eventually be successful?
In missions where you can win via it, kill the Pox Walkers and break him.
In most other missions, do the same, but also put flesh wounds on Plague Marines. Gauss Blasters are alright at that. Then hope enough shakens can win you the game.
In Recover Intelligence (what you played), concede at the end of Turn 3. You can't win that.
DarknessEternal wrote: In missions where you can win via it, kill the Pox Walkers and break him.
Yeah, I was trying to do this. Sure, he rolled way too many 6's when taking his FNP, and my shooting game was off (missing far more than hitting), but I was pretty much shooting at two Pox Walkers with each of my Immortals each round I could. (he charged, then killed, my Comms in Round 2, but the rest of them fought for the entire battle). Only once or twice did I even bother to go after the marines. He rolled to break twice (rerolled once, but passed twice), and had a pox walker stunned for the last two rounds. Marines either died (from Tau), or he spent a CP to ensure it didn't need to check.
Maybe I need a larger sample size, but it felt that even those 3pt guys were tougher and more mobile than their points would suggest!
In Recover Intelligence (what you played), concede at the end of Turn 3. You can't win that.
There's no means of re-rolling break tests in Kill Team.
Oh, wow - wish I had known that before! That could have changed things a little
How?
I can't remember 100%, but I think it was the rail rifle and the missile turret. They both took away a lot of Armour, and then the multiple damage helped get through their FNP. The fusion gun might have landed a hit, too (only one shot, and being very inaccurate, means it rarely hits!)
As to the CP: the "insane Bravery" tactic (page 65 of the core rulebook). So even with flesh wounds on marines (instead of them dying), he still ensured that they didn't have to risk a nerve check. Only the Pox Walkers did.
But yeah, it was definitely my intention to get as many of those walkers down to force morale checks - it just didn't go as well as planned. (partially because of the reroll shenanigans!)
About to get in my first game of Arena tonight, bringing Necrons since that's all I have atm until I build my Blackstone Fortress
I have a feeling Arena will be good for us. The corridors being much tighter than the average KT board is a nice boost to Flayed Ones and Gauss RF, which were already our bigger selling points.
Deathmarks feel like they'll still be good in the setting - while you might not get the most out of the 24" ignore distance modifier, they're still Rapid Fire and defensive, allowing them to either camp a hallway or move up it.
I think my opponent is playing Tyranids, so we'll see how it goes! For reference, here's my roster:
With the general TAC setup being Leader Immortal, Sniper Deathmark, Comms Deathmark, Combat Flayed One, 2x Gauss Immortal, Flayed One. The nice thing about Necron Rosters is that since we're low on options and model count, you can really bring lots of options for Specialist mixups depending on mission. I think my Roster allows for basically any mix or match I may come across in a given setting.
Had another two games last night, and happily (for me), they went a bit better than the last match.
The first one was defending against the Tau in "Disrupt Supply Lines".
The Tau brought two stealth suits (heavy and comms, with comms also being the shas'ui), pathfinder sniper with railrifle, fire warrior shas'la, and five drones.
His big mistake was not pushing forward enough - he sent in his stealth suits, with a gun drone and three shield drones, and tried to capture the first point. I charged in with my flayed ones, loosing the combat specialist to overwatch (my first action of the game was to let my guy die). But that zealot took down a suit - thanks to the tau player being overly confident in his 3+ save, and the rolling very poorly.
Most of my shooting targeted the drones directly, as the rest of his team was sitting way back. By round 2, he was retreating his heavy, and continued as I tried to chase him down later. By the time the game was ending, and he realised he now couldn't make it to the points, it was too late. He tried to take me down as best he could, but my immortals were made too sturdily, and the game was won 6-0 !
The second game was again defending, this time against a wall of green in "Feint".
The ork forces were a boss with a skorcha, a combat specialist, a rokkit (not sure of specialisation), and a heavy big shoota. Then, he had five boys with sluggas and choppas, and five with shootas. This was an experimental list - a new orks player still testing out his codex.
Well, the way the game is set up, I pretty much gave up on the back three objectives, residing myself to at least knowing he was going to have to leave someone back there to snag them, and spend three CP to take them out. I was going to protect mine, and hope that was enough.
Orks started their "charge" first (ie, they all advanced), meaning that both flayed ones were able to counter-charge into the oncoming horde, tying up a few orks, and leaving a number of other targets for the tesla weaponry. Their t-shirt saves did not help, and by the time any orks reached the necron gun-line, they were whittled down somewhat, and those that remained bleeding, too. The boss couldn't get past the strong immortal armour, and despite the lowly attack rate, tesla weapons served as good blunt instruments for smashing into orks!
As the rear objectives were picked off, the ork numbers whittled, until at the end of round 3, they were broken and set to do very little. A CP was spent to ensure the rear-guard remained alert to grab the third objective, but the rest of the team - that which remained - cowered in fear.
Mop up operations were had, to ensure no more locations were lost, and the game ended in another necron victory: 6-3.
Despite the two wins, I think both games could have easily gone the other way - a slight change in tactics (not to mention rolls being shifted a little) could have lead to a necron loss. And, I think the orks could have dropped some of the 'bigger' weapons for more guys - maybe. I'm not familiar enough with the orks to be sure!
First game with my Necrons in ages and we played some Battle Brothers. And... wow, those Tactics from the team box are good! Superior Inheritance is just superb, I think I used it every round, and those Immortals were downing Genestealers all over the show. Tireless Advance also good!
Superior Inheritance is 1CP to let you shoot an additional time with a Gauss weapon, it's like having an additional Immortal on the table. It keeps any other strats/abilities you've used to boost them too, naturally...
unitled wrote: Superior Inheritance is 1CP to let you shoot an additional time with a Gauss weapon, it's like having an additional Immortal on the table.
it's more like a command point reroll. I'd rather save points for mindshackle scarabs, resurrection protocol, or prime reanimation.
I was able to beat Death Watch & Grey Knights in Assassinate & Ambush respectively last weekend. First match I ran "the good list" with 5 immortal / 2 flayed ones & managed to keep my leader alive for 5 turns. my opponent got his frag cannon to a window with a view of my leader & thought he was about to make me eat 2D6 auto hits, but I was able to successfully charge his model with my gauss blaster bayonet through the terrain, locking him in combat to prevent the shot. my flayed ones did their job keeping his other units locked in combat, only 1 reanimation in 5 turns was a bit disappointing.
I played 4 flayed ones / 5 warriors as the defender in ambush, I would have preferred 10 flayed ones or even 5 with 4 warriors but I don't have the models. My opponent's multi wound weapons combined with a particularly high rolling set of dice set off reanimation protocol 6 times!
unitled wrote: Superior Inheritance is 1CP to let you shoot an additional time with a Gauss weapon, it's like having an additional Immortal on the table.
it's more like a command point reroll. I'd rather save points for mindshackle scarabs, resurrection protocol, or prime reanimation.
Well... Not really, reroll can turn 1 miss into a hit, SI can turn 2 hits into 4 hits? Mindshackle is situational good but OCCASIONALLY is worth the two, in the meantime more guaranteed shots for fewer points is good to me.
unitled wrote: Superior Inheritance is 1CP to let you shoot an additional time with a Gauss weapon, it's like having an additional Immortal on the table.
it's more like a command point reroll. I'd rather save points for mindshackle scarabs, resurrection protocol, or prime reanimation.
Oh, it's much better than a command point reroll. Firstly, a reroll already assumes you missed, so at best a reroll is one kill. With SI, you can potentially (even if not likely) get four kills. But even if you don't have the target or luck, SI allows two more shots (because you're shooting at short range), whereas a reroll is only on one shot. It's great for getting lots of flesh wounds out, also!
Mindshackle scarabs has worked out something like once in four of five times. It's just not reliable enough, and costs a large chunk of CP. I keep wanting to use it, failing even a low roll, then realising I could have had two more tactics for that same cost.
Resurrection protocol is kind of similar - holding on to it on the off-chance that your leader goes down, and then it only goes off half the time. A poor take on the Space Marine's "Death Denied" (any model, guaranteed working, still only 2CP).
Prime Reanimation is great, but I have to put the points aside for it - and have them roll a 4 or 5 (or, more likely, a 5, as I'll be behind cover). So it doesn't come up, making the points more useful to be used earlier.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Additionally - I was mistakenly playing "Superior Inheritance " as costing 2CP for a few games, and I still thought it was worthwhile. Clearly, it's much better now that I play it correctly
no really, it's a glorified command point reroll. being that it doesn't work with tesla carbine, you are re-rolling a single to hit die unless your warrior / immortal is in rapid fire range. you can bet your target is obscured, so it would make sense to only use on a unit with comms buff... that makes it pretty situational, at best.
no really, it's a glorified command point reroll. being that it doesn't work with tesla carbine, you are re-rolling a single to hit die unless your warrior / immortal is in rapid fire range. you can bet your target is obscured, so it would make sense to only use on a unit with comms buff... that makes it pretty situational, at best.
Well, yeah - that's what we were saying. Choose your model / target carefully. Rapid fire range, with comms, and the extra two shots >> reroll of one shot. (plus, if you wanted, you could do both of them with your two rolls). Having *two* extra shots (with bonuses) is typically much better than rerolling *one* of those shots
We recently picked up this game with my friends and Im about to have my first match, I chose necrons and bought the necron box with 5 models and additional necron tactics.
However I have few questions about the tactics if anyone here happens to know the answers:
1) Prime reanimation protocols: if I use this tactic do I get to see the original injury roll beforehand or not?
2) Targeting routines: cover makes opponents harder to hit by 1 and this gives 1 bonus against covered opponents so effectively modifier is 0?
3) Superior inheritance: this tactic lets me shoot again. If the model is within short range do I get to make one or two shooting attacks(they have rapid fire 1)?
4) Tireless advance: the card description says I can ready one model, even if it moved in previous movement phase. Does it matter what kind of movement was done(normal movement, falling back or advancing)?
5) Mindshackle scarabs: if I use this to shoot with a model does that mean my opponent cant use this model to shoot on his turn?
no really, it's a glorified command point reroll. being that it doesn't work with tesla carbine, you are re-rolling a single to hit die unless your warrior / immortal is in rapid fire range. you can bet your target is obscured, so it would make sense to only use on a unit with comms buff... that makes it pretty situational, at best.
More shots is absolutely not the same as a reroll.
Above you have a warrior shooting at a marine with re-rolling misses on the left and double shots on the right. Top row is long range, bottom row is short range. I've even allowed re-rolls on both shots at close range to help you but you can see that re-rolls are still inferior to double shots which gives 50% more wounds on an average result in addition to the possibility of more wounds that is capable using rerolls.
We recently picked up this game with my friends and Im about to have my first match, I chose necrons and bought the necron box with 5 models and additional necron tactics.
Welcome! First things first - you'll want to find a few more miniatures (even proxy them at first) so you can fill out a 100 point team (two "flayed one" stand-ins should do for starters).
However I have few questions about the tactics if anyone here happens to know the answers:
1) Prime reanimation protocols: if I use this tactic do I get to see the original injury roll beforehand or not?
The "when" leaves it as a little ambiguous, but as it doesn't say "before", and it is two points (so why would you be forced to spend two points to do absolutely nothing?), the general consensus is that yes, you see the results and then spend the points.
2) Targeting routines: cover makes opponents harder to hit by 1 and this gives 1 bonus against covered opponents so effectively modifier is 0?
That is correct - but any other effects that count for cover still apply (so they are still obscured, and still count as such for injury rolls etc, but the penalty is nullified...or, if they get an additional -1, then it goes down from -2 to -1).
3) Superior inheritance: this tactic lets me shoot again. If the model is within short range do I get to make one or two shooting attacks(they have rapid fire 1)?
You shoot with the again as normal - so if within short range, shoot twice. If you used Comms on them, they get the +1 bonus again. If you used Targeting routines on them, they get the +1 vs obscured targets again. This is a great power
4) Tireless advance: the card description says I can ready one model, even if it moved in previous movement phase. Does it matter what kind of movement was done(normal movement, falling back or advancing)?
I hadn't considered this for the "fall back" case, but yes, that's how it reads! I had thought of it for the "advance" and then fire case, but clearly, "as if they had not moved" means you ignore the fact that they fell back! I'll have to use this one some more
5) Mindshackle scarabs: if I use this to shoot with a model does that mean my opponent cant use this model to shoot on his turn?
"No model may be chosen to shoot more than once in a Shooting phase" (page 28, first paragraph). So once it shoots at the start of the phase, it cannot shoot again. (It's another 2CP tactic that only goes off 50% or less of the time).
We recently picked up this game with my friends and Im about to have my first match, I chose necrons and bought the necron box with 5 models and additional necron tactics.
Welcome! First things first - you'll want to find a few more miniatures (even proxy them at first) so you can fill out a 100 point team (two "flayed one" stand-ins should do for starters).
However I have few questions about the tactics if anyone here happens to know the answers:
1) Prime reanimation protocols: if I use this tactic do I get to see the original injury roll beforehand or not?
The "when" leaves it as a little ambiguous, but as it doesn't say "before", and it is two points (so why would you be forced to spend two points to do absolutely nothing?), the general consensus is that yes, you see the results and then spend the points.
2) Targeting routines: cover makes opponents harder to hit by 1 and this gives 1 bonus against covered opponents so effectively modifier is 0?
That is correct - but any other effects that count for cover still apply (so they are still obscured, and still count as such for injury rolls etc, but the penalty is nullified...or, if they get an additional -1, then it goes down from -2 to -1).
3) Superior inheritance: this tactic lets me shoot again. If the model is within short range do I get to make one or two shooting attacks(they have rapid fire 1)?
You shoot with the again as normal - so if within short range, shoot twice. If you used Comms on them, they get the +1 bonus again. If you used Targeting routines on them, they get the +1 vs obscured targets again. This is a great power
4) Tireless advance: the card description says I can ready one model, even if it moved in previous movement phase. Does it matter what kind of movement was done(normal movement, falling back or advancing)?
I hadn't considered this for the "fall back" case, but yes, that's how it reads! I had thought of it for the "advance" and then fire case, but clearly, "as if they had not moved" means you ignore the fact that they fell back! I'll have to use this one some more
5) Mindshackle scarabs: if I use this to shoot with a model does that mean my opponent cant use this model to shoot on his turn?
"No model may be chosen to shoot more than once in a Shooting phase" (page 28, first paragraph). So once it shoots at the start of the phase, it cannot shoot again. (It's another 2CP tactic that only goes off 50% or less of the time).
Hope this all helped!
Yes, all is pretty much cleared for me, ready for the first game!
Oh and I do have two flayed one conversions to back the other robos, the kill team is two flayed ones(combat and zealot), deathmark sniper, immortal with tesla carbine and 3 immortals with gauss blasters, one which is a leader
Depending on the mission / enemy, you might want to change up your immortals and deathmark (I tend to take 5x gauss immortals vs heavy armoured folk, and 5x tesla immortals vs light armoured or harlequins). Deathmark sadly haven't been as effective as I had hoped - Str 4 (vs 5) and no AP means they really only excel at long-distance shooting, and it's usually easy enough to get into short range to make the others far more painful to the enemy.
Managed to get two games in last night - the first against a swarm of orks, and the second (as we were down to two players) against the orks and tau (because we all know how friendly those two armies can be!).
The orks brought many, many boys, two boss nobs with power klaws (one a combat, one a commando vet), and a handful of gretchin (one being their leader). I brought my typical 5-2 (5 immortals with tesla, one a leader, one a comms; and two flayed ones, one a combat and one a zealot).
We played one of the new Arena missions (Claim the Catacombs), which, given that he outnumbered me more than 2:1, I assumed I would lose. That didn't happen.
The kommando moved very quickly to stand behind the door my leader was guarding, and had a couple of boys follow. Some other figures moved to flank and grab one of the outer objectives (there were five in total), another collection raced for the middle point, and the rest wrapped around through the no-door corridor towards another point and my zone.
Somehow, my leader managed to hold the door closed long enough to realise he didn't want to be there, and then ran. A trusting immortal remained on duty, as both Flayed Ones charged the oncoming green tide - with a boost to their strength (zealot charge + combat using necron stratagem), they took out the Boss Nob and two of his henchmen - a good first round! I held two points, he held one, and I triggered all three of my extra objectives. Not a single shot fired.
After a few attempts, the door finally opened, allowing his Kommando to charge and destroy the immortal; other orks charged, but were less effective. At the end of round two, I still held more points, and only lost the one body.
Combat was met around the central point, but the immortals proved to be stronger than the boys facing them. The kommando slipped on spilled lubrication oil (failing two charge rolls), and was let in the open, to be shot down by my remaining immortals, moments before they were charged by other boys. The flayed ones quickly swept up the bounty tokens before rejoining battle, and by the end of the game, the score was a 8-18 necron victory (max 9 on VP, max 9 on three secondary objectives).
Our second game was my same army vs the orks same army, with an overlord commander (melee) added for me, and a tau army (fusion stealthsuit, two rail rifles, an ion rifle, a fire warrior and turret, and some drones). We did the simple "kill the commander" mission. They didn't.
The orks ran across the field, whilst the tau shot the necrons up. First shot of the night, their sniper took down my comms. But that seemed to be the best shot - after that, things didn't hit, or didn't wound, or on the odd occasion that they did, they were saved. The kommando did his best to take down the overlord, hitting and wounding with everything he had, but when needed, the overlord's invulnerable save did its work. Not a single wound against the commander went unsaved over the game!
After killing the kommando, I foolishly didn't charge enough targets with my overlord, and thus left him in the open; there were two mortal wounds applied from the rail rifles, but as the actual damage was ignored, they were easily healed up the following rounds.
As the ork numbers were thinned enough to cause their team to break, the tau did a most interesting and surprising move: the stealthsuit and its accompanying gun drone charged my leader and his immortal buddy! Being out-of-sight meant no overwatch, so they just went straight into melee. The stealthsuit was not effective...but that drone headbutted my leader to machine death! (Fortunately, I had enough CP to allow my Overlord to bring him back...)
The game ended with only one Ork boy still moving, and maybe a third of the tau force removed. I had lost my comms and combat specialists (the latter because I foolishly forgot to use the tactic to attack with him before all the orks gathered around him had their turn). But my commander lived, and thus it was another Necron victory.
But, ouch! That overlord can be mighty strong. Of course, a few failed saves and it would have been a different story, but there's something about half my team surviving or not because of a single roll or two here or there that makes me less confident in the victory...
Also - since we're playing campaign, I levelled up my Immortals, and they gained the wonderfully useful ability to reroll failed nerve tests...so it looks like I'll be "disbanding" them and getting some new ones (read: taking them back to the shop and hitting that hard factory reset button!)
On a 6 they heal, a roll of 5 becomes a 3, which is a flesh wound.
)
Both other teams were suffering from Shaken and Broken in the last couple of turns. Fairly standard loadout of 3 Immortals, 2 Deathmarks, 2 Flayed Ones. Flayed Ones (the Zealot especially) were amazing this game, pretty much the first time they've made a proper big impact.
