Has anyone else noticed the Ork community disappearing recently? Either in your local META, tournament scene or even on Dakka or other forums? It used to be I could check Dakka and see at least 1-2 new threads a day that had something to do with orkz, now I haven't been here in days and I come back to zero new threads and about 6 new comments in total over 3 different forums and 4 different threads

Orks were my 1st army, biggest army in terms of models, and still, my least played army.

It seems like we are always waiting for the next update to be better....

The new books gives me a little hope though. Maybe, just maybe this time they'll be playable!

Orks are kind of in stasis right now. Some are likely burnt out waiting on the edge of their seat for a break.

Things have been slower. I think there's a few different reasons:
A lot of Index Orks stuff has already been talked to death.
With the new codex being soon (hopefully) there is a reasonable tendency to sit still and wait.
There isn't much to do but uselessly complain, which gets pretty annoying after a while.

Edit: I guess wishlisting and coming up with proposed fixes could be added to the part I wrote about complaining. Those even feel like a waste of time at this point.


I've been enjoying Guy Haley's new Ork audio dramas.

Ork community hasn't dropped off - all the boyz are in waiting, for the new codex to drop.

There hasn't been anything new to discuss since the beginning of 8th edition [since they're still stuck on the index], we've gotten no previews since the announcement of the Ork codex (unlike every other faction sans Space Wolves), and Orks have gotten the short end of the stick since 3rd edition (18 years ago btw);

Orks are here; just like in the lore, they're never going away - they're just waiting for their time, to Waaagh! the universe anew.

It doesn't help they're the communal punching bag, in every exchange (see the recent "How many Killa Kans can a Knight kill?" article).


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I also need to addendum that to put into perspective just how little love Orks have from GW;

GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks, which is why the army wasn't used at Adepticon;

Story: GW is not playing Orks at Adepticon because - and I quote - "It's genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!"
Send the WAAAGH!!! to GW

How can they not have 4000 points of one of the oldest, largest, and most iconic 40k armies? Worse yet - how can they not have 4000 points of Orks, when the entire codex is horrendously overcosted (excluding boyz/stormboyz/kommandos)?

There was also a community event to send Ork models to GW, to help them build up their army reserves - and also be a fun, community building event on both sides. And while I'm not sure of the final total amount of models that were sent; there was zero peep out of GW that this happened. Not even a nod of "Hey, we know we said we didn't have enough Boyz; but the tribes banded together and we're ready for a new WAAAGH!" ~ or something along those lines. You see where I'm coming from.

I also kind of fell off of 40k. No real relevant news and nobody to play with regularly.

We haven't gone away. We are at the top of the GW rollercoaster hill. The moment when everyone takes a deep breath before the plunge. We are ready to unleash a mighty WAAAAAGGGHHH!!!!! before we trash the whole universe. It will come and we will destroy all who oppose us for we are the mighty orks none will oppose us. The universe will be one color and that is Green!!!!

They're one of the last codexes that are gonna come out barring something new and truthfully have been in a bad spot since 6th. A lot of there kits could use an update, which also doesn't attract new players either.

Nothing to talk about. Haven't really had an itch to play orks for half a year. Just too boring. And core rules don't help either. Boring rules, boring one-dimensional army.
Have only played a couple times when people asked me to. Since i'm the only ork player left around here. There used to be like 6 or 7 in 5-th edition.

Rising and then falling hype.

I had thought Orks would be out by now.
Or at least we would be getting leaks (official or otherwise).

Instead now its looking like October at the earliest, potentially into November, which feels like a life time away. (Obviously 2 months isn't, but still).

In some ways this makes me more optimistic there might be some models, but at the same time GW are running out of weeks (as weird as that sounds).

I haven't had a game in over a month I think. I thought my usual Scrumgrod was calling to schedule a game but instead told me he's selling all of his 40K armies and won't get back in for 6 months at the earliest. Seems he's run off all his player base by being too competitive or something. I'm probably not going to get more than one more game in this year. Which is a shame, I was planning to find a way to pack in a load of small games when the codex comes out but now I'd be forced to play a bunch of randoms. Too much anxiety for that.
Really looking forward to new discussions about Orks.
Hope they are at least interesting. Less math hammer more Orks do it best this way. It's been so slow I sat through part of a Long War pod cast and I don't even like those guys.
To end on an up note I painted 2806 points in modes from May till August for the Orks Subforum over on the B&C. So at least I've had something Ork related to occupy myself with.

I wish ork players were dropping off but they all seem to be over in the News and Rumours section channelling their inner SoB player.

SeanDrake wrote:
I wish ork players were dropping off but they all seem to be over in the News and Rumours section channelling their inner SoB player.

I think they've actually merged the inner SoB with the old Necron and Dark Eldar torments too!!

I think there's two distinct answers to this particular question.

In terms of Kill Team there seems have been an influx of new Ork player who want to give a few greenskeens a go in a small setting. There have been a few new Ork players joining on the back of that, though I suspect most are waiting to see if the codex is any good before they commit further to a full army.

In terms of 40k players there has definitely been a drop off. What do you expect though? One of the most iconic factions in all of 40k is yet again getting the short end of the stick, after getting the short end of the stick for around 18 years. People are tired. I'm one of them. I can either sit and moan online (which I have done a little of) or I can just do other things. I've opted to do other things. If the release is codex only and poor I will express my discontent and likely leave the hobby for an extended amount of time.

" GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks, which is why the army wasn't used at Adepticon;

" Story: GW is not playing Orks at Adepticon because - and I quote - "It's genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!" "

GW studio could have 4000 points of Orks in an afternoon PROVIDED all you needed was a slop-n-go paint job. Spray paint, some details, base, flock, done.

But to add even 1000 points of Orks painted to studio quality, consistent with the rest of the existing studio Ork army, ready to be photographed and have the photos published in White Dwarf, that's a whole other thing.

Biggest reason my participation regardin orks dropped on in this forum, tons of people are super negative. You can't even suggest one positive thing to do with orks without at least two people throwing a page full of out of context maths at you to knock down what you had to say.

Hell, fully half the bumps in the ork rumor thread in the last week have been baseless suggestions about GW incompetance and conspiracy amongst the playtest group.

No drop off here but as others have said, nothing new to say. other than "I'm looking for a new army.... try orks - they're fun..."

phydaux wrote:
" GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks, which is why the army wasn't used at Adepticon;

" Story: GW is not playing Orks at Adepticon because - and I quote - "It's genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!" "

GW studio could have 4000 points of Orks in an afternoon PROVIDED all you needed was a slop-n-go paint job. Spray paint, some details, base, flock, done.

But to add even 1000 points of Orks painted to studio quality, consistent with the rest of the existing studio Ork army, ready to be photographed and have the photos published in White Dwarf, that's a whole other thing.

Couldn't they just used the army of someone working at the GW? if they say they play orcs, then there should be a few people with that many points.

GW likely has rules or at least guidelines on the quality of paintwork and army that they want to promote. Ergo all current models, good quality painting etc... when they attend an event.

It's not just playing a game for them when they turn up to a major tournament; its marketing. Staff who had poorer painted forces or older or converted models might not be allowed; plus it might be that no members of staff who collect orks wanted to or was able to go (and didn't want another person taking their army).

GW might not even have considered it and just gone for ther own in-house show-armies to use

 davou wrote:
Biggest reason my participation regardin orks dropped on in this forum, tons of people are super negative. You can't even suggest one positive thing to do with orks without at least two people throwing a page full of out of context maths at you to knock down what you had to say.

Hell, fully half the bumps in the ork rumor thread in the last week have been baseless suggestions about GW incompetance and conspiracy amongst the playtest group.

It's a real nasty entitled additude yeah, the idea that Orks are somehow super iconic and not putting their codex out immediatly is somehow a calculated insult.

Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Doesn't help that the latest release from GW's Facebook page has a message from a Space Wolf leader, but the art shows SW vs GSC, instead of SW vs Orks...

fe40k wrote:
Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Could be that they cheaped out the entire army and is now half the value it used to be.

 helgrenze wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Could be that they cheaped out the entire army and is now half the value it used to be.

If they're using the new codex internally, perhaps; but this wasn't at that time - they would have been using the Index, since it was for the Adepticon tournament; the overpriced, underpowered, index...

My local Ork community is still there. They're just waiting (im)patiently for their Codex.

Yeah ork players ARE out there. Hell I met one today at my FLGS (He was there to play Malifaeux though). People like to switch to the SHINY AND NEW and play with it a while until they get bored, I am sure a lot of ork players are just taking a break until the new codex comes out.

I saw the same thing in 5th edition the first time I started playing 40k. I was the only CSM player in my FLGS, everyone else was playing Space Wolves and Grey Knights. More CSM players started showing back up after the 6th Edition codex came out.

I know some of you guys are getting impatient and anxious, but the new codecies are coming, and hey, at least you folks don't need to wait until next year like Sisters do.

Well, let's be honest...why would GW even have a studio army for the most part? Do they do White Dwarf battle reports any more? Prior to beginning to heavily broadcast via Twitch and Warhammer TV ----- they didn't need massive studio armies. The employees all have their own armies and they just need stuff to snap pictures of.

I love how Ork players think it's some mighty insult that they didn't have a large Ork army painted, sitting on a shelf. They didn't need to have one.

 Elbows wrote:
Well, let's be honest...why would GW even have a studio army for the most part? Do they do White Dwarf battle reports any more? Prior to beginning to heavily broadcast via Twitch and Warhammer TV ----- they didn't need massive studio armies. The employees all have their own armies and they just need stuff to snap pictures of.

I love how Ork players think it's some mighty insult that they didn't have a large Ork army painted, sitting on a shelf. They didn't need to have one.

I imagine they have a studio army, but 4000 points is a LOT, especially for a horde army. I imagine they have a hundred boyz and some other stuff, but the thing is, they might only have 1 of each unit painted up. thats all GW needs in their studio for each model

There's quite a few Ork players in my area. They were my first 40k army and remain one of my largest (admittedly, I have 7 or so). Everyone in my area is just waiting - can't really play Orks against any of the armies with a codex, so nothing really to stimulate conversation or new hobby projects. People usually grow less active with an army when they know a codex is coming - don't want to buy units, make conversions, etc. when you don't know what will and won't be around.

I joined a gaming club recently and aparntly I'm the first and only Ork playernin their like 50 members.


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phydaux wrote:
" GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks, which is why the army wasn't used at Adepticon;

" Story: GW is not playing Orks at Adepticon because - and I quote - "It's genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!" "

GW studio could have 4000 points of Orks in an afternoon PROVIDED all you needed was a slop-n-go paint job. Spray paint, some details, base, flock, done.

But to add even 1000 points of Orks painted to studio quality, consistent with the rest of the existing studio Ork army, ready to be photographed and have the photos published in White Dwarf, that's a whole other thing.

Well theybhave had 30 yesrs to do it... 20 if you consider the most up to date Ork range.

Remember, they did have 4k of the other factions like tyranids and ultramarines.

Nope, still here WAAAGHING!!!

 helgrenze wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Could be that they cheaped out the entire army and is now half the value it used to be.

Probably this. I mean, how long have most of the kits been around? If they only do a few of each kit for every release for a release, and in the time since said release the models got cheapter (and Orks have gotten cheaper over the years) the army might not be close enough to 4k anymore.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Could be that they cheaped out the entire army and is now half the value it used to be.

Probably this. I mean, how long have most of the kits been around? If they only do a few of each kit for every release for a release, and in the time since said release the models got cheapter (and Orks have gotten cheaper over the years) the army might not be close enough to 4k anymore.

Except that as of 8th, almost everything is MORE expensive then it has ever been. Only a handful of units got points reductions from the index. As an example, Trukkz went form 30pts to 82pts. Warbikers went from 18pts to 27pts. The Stompa (that big pile of crap) went from 770pts to just under 1,000pts. So the idea that things got cheaper just isn't true at all hell, if you played Trukk Spam at all since 4th you should have over 500pts in just trukkz now.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Could be that they cheaped out the entire army and is now half the value it used to be.

Probably this. I mean, how long have most of the kits been around? If they only do a few of each kit for every release for a release, and in the time since said release the models got cheapter (and Orks have gotten cheaper over the years) the army might not be close enough to 4k anymore.

Except that as of 8th, almost everything is MORE expensive then it has ever been. Only a handful of units got points reductions from the index. As an example, Trukkz went form 30pts to 82pts. Warbikers went from 18pts to 27pts. The Stompa (that big pile of crap) went from 770pts to just under 1,000pts. So the idea that things got cheaper just isn't true at all hell, if you played Trukk Spam at all since 4th you should have over 500pts in just trukkz now.

And compared to when those units were introduced are they more expensive or less expensive?

And everyone's vehicles got more expensive compared to 5th through 7th due to current rules, but some of them are stil cheaper than the original rules made them.

fe40k wrote:
Meanwhile; we're arguing about whether GW can grab a staff players army, instead of WHY they don't have 4000 points of professionally painted models; unlike multiple other factions.

Oh wait, Orks having been around since Rogue Trader days or anything... I keep forgetting they're such a new army.

Doesn't help that the latest release from GW's Facebook page has a message from a Space Wolf leader, but the art shows SW vs GSC, instead of SW vs Orks...

Rogue trade era models are irrelevant. Gw keeps their studio armies with current releases so the rt models wouldn't be used. Seen much rt marines in gw showcase armies?

Also remember gw doesn't do much in form of duplicates so idea of 200 boys? Nope. Not happening. Would be surprised if they have even 100. You don't need that much for photographs which is primary function of studio armies


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SemperMortis wrote:


Except that as of 8th, almost everything is MORE expensive then it has ever been. Only a handful of units got points reductions from the index. As an example, Trukkz went form 30pts to 82pts. Warbikers went from 18pts to 27pts. The Stompa (that big pile of crap) went from 770pts to just under 1,000pts. So the idea that things got cheaper just isn't true at all hell, if you played Trukk Spam at all since 4th you should have over 500pts in just trukkz now.

Gw doesn't do spam. Even for troops. wouldn't be surprise if they have like evil sunz and goff trukks and that's it

 lolman1c wrote:
I joined a gaming club recently and aparntly I'm the first and only Ork playernin their like 50 members.


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phydaux wrote:
" GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks, which is why the army wasn't used at Adepticon;

" Story: GW is not playing Orks at Adepticon because - and I quote - "It's genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!" "

GW studio could have 4000 points of Orks in an afternoon PROVIDED all you needed was a slop-n-go paint job. Spray paint, some details, base, flock, done.

But to add even 1000 points of Orks painted to studio quality, consistent with the rest of the existing studio Ork army, ready to be photographed and have the photos published in White Dwarf, that's a whole other thing.

Well theybhave had 30 yesrs to do it... 20 if you consider the most up to date Ork range.

Remember, they did have 4k of the other factions like tyranids and ultramarines.

I don't think it should suprise anyone GW has a large studio army of Ultramarines

The age of the Ork range may actually be part of the problem for the lack of a studio army. they may simply not see a need for a modern studio army that consists of such old minis.

Did some quick work in Battlescribe. I included one of each unit that is still in production, made it "middle-of-the-road" in terms of the size of the unit and upgrades, and it came out to 5,686 points.

This was not including any Forge World, any units that sort of have models (Nob Bikers, for example) or any units that were recently in production but no long appear to be (Big Gunz, for example). I also included only one of each unit that had significant variation (only one KMK for example, and none of the other types of Mek Gunz). This was on the fly and working off memory, and making a lot of judgement calls about what would be a "middle of the road" choice.

DudleyGrim wrote:
I know some of you guys are getting impatient and anxious, but the new codecies are coming, and hey, at least you folks don't need to wait until next year like Sisters do.

If GW said they were redoing our entire line I'm sure there'd be a lot more positivity and I'd be happy to wait. In fact if GW showed a singular new Ork model there'd be a lot more positivity. Instead we've seen new GSC models and massive hints that it will be them vs Space Wolves box set which further lessens our likelihood of getting new models (that are desperately needed).

Getting a codex only release at this late a stage is extremely disappointing and makes no sense.

If this forum is anything to go by, I believe ork tactic mega thread is the longest in the tactics section. Which is pretty surprising considering they've got an index with minimal good options and just a few very obvious good builds.

 DoomMouse wrote:
If this forum is anything to go by, I believe ork tactic mega thread is the longest in the tactics section. Which is pretty surprising considering they've got an index with minimal good options and just a few very obvious good builds.

Mostly sheer desperation, and the hope that there's something thay can do to not get stomped without buying+painting 200 boyz.

Shurifire wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
If this forum is anything to go by, I believe ork tactic mega thread is the longest in the tactics section. Which is pretty surprising considering they've got an index with minimal good options and just a few very obvious good builds.

Mostly sheer desperation, and the hope that there's something thay can do to not get stomped without buying+painting 200 boyz.

The ork tactics thread is basically this. Its just page after page of people wish listing because it took us about 3 months to figure out that the only viable build was spamming boyz or Kommandos or Stormboyz and that everyhting else is basically drastically over priced.

It also has a bunch of posts where people try to suggest something besides boyz and get shot down by simple math. Occasionally we get a new ork player who thinks he will be Mork (Or possibly gork's) gift to the ork faction and suggests ridiculous builds or tries to show us how taking 400 grots is a viable tactic or how the stompa is a viable unit. As a regular poster on their I can also tell you that interest as drastically dropped off and most of us are in a holding pattern. I've had about $150 saved to buy some new Ork stuff, but I refuse to spend it until the codex drops because I DO NOT want to get another set of Deff Koptas only to find out that they are all but unplayable.

Not yet, not ever. I like modeling/kitbashing Orks too much.

A longer wait just means a different priority on what I paint next.

Many ork players I still recognize from when I joined dakka in 5th now seem to be posting on other threads about their new army, like dark eldar, death guard, necrons.

It's also sad to see how much ork players reputation has been hurt by the constant complaining of a few posters. Our reputation used to be that ork players were the most fun to be around.

I dont really understand where the complaints about ork players complaining about a new codex come from. Most of it is in its own thread (of which there is one). If you go into a speculation/chat thread what would you expect?

this is GW right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaGLtJaZjs

Aaaaand its space wolves vs genestealer cults next. So I guess orks are dead last in the year? Sigh, I hope they don't wait for the holiday window for the ork release. I just want to play my darn orks :(

It's kind of hard to work on anything when you don't even know whats good/cool/coming out. Is there going to be a new unit that I want? Am I going to want to build another unit of flash gitz or something? At their current state only 3 units are playable (weirdboy, boy, KMK gun) so its hard to say what to invest in or convert in the mean time.

Having to shelve a 6000 point army for a year sucks.

 Don Savik wrote:
Having to shelve a 6000 point army for a year sucks.

Could be worse.
Could have come out months ago and been crap. Or it could be next year 'emperor willing'. Or it could be a couple of months away from getting nerfhammered for being a popular ingredient in soup... the timing of orks will mean they are at least safe from the wrath of the big errata. [/glasshalffull]

I'm sure GK players are feeling a lot of sympathy for Orks right now, yeah.

My Orks are a painting and kit-bashing project. They never get played with - I don't have the last codex for them even (I gave it away to a club for kids to look at).

The problem is, I love conversions and my looted tank for example is a beautiful example of Orkish improvisation. My Big Gunz and Mek Gunz again are also kit-bashes. Only, these are either not 'tournament legal' because of the size of them (they're bigger and a mix of components from GW and others)… or because they no longer have rules (Looted Tanks)

The Orks lost their soul when GW ignored and actively discouraged kit-bashing and modding Orkish gubbins. So for me, they will continue to be a hobby on the side that will only see play if A) The new codex is worthwhile and B) I can find other players who haven't already quit the hobby due to a multitude of reasons such as being out-priced, lack of support, having children or playing less confusing games(clear, to the point rules)

You want to know why the Ork Community has almost vanished?

Since the beginning, the rumors were Orks and Space Wolves would be released together, potentially in a kit box - but these were just rumors.

Then GW announced Orks and Space Wolves codecii are coming next.

Then, out of NOWHERE, and WITHOUT even announcing that they were in the works - GSC steal the Ork spotlight. The new boxed set is Space Wolves VS GSC, instead of SW vs Ork.

And then it gets worse - "New models are coming out soon!"; and then they go on to showcase Space Wolf new models (which is fine), but also new GSC models.

Where the FETH are the Ork models? The Ork announcements? The Ork rumors and leaks?

Oh, right, they got shoveled into the remnants bin, like they've been since 3rd edition. Never forget that in an Index where everything is badly overpriced; GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks for Adepticon 8th edition.

Orks, the classic Space Marine rival, and one of the most iconic 40k races, who've been in the game since the beginning - Orks, don't have 4000 points.

Tell my why Orks should care about GW? Why?

to add to your rant, why the hell didn't GW pull their collective heads out of their butts and reprice the majority of the index in the FAQ or the Chapter approved which have come out since?

or do they still think a 1,000pt stompa is worth taking?

SemperMortis wrote:
to add to your rant, why the hell didn't GW pull their collective heads out of their butts and reprice the majority of the index in the FAQ or the Chapter approved which have come out since?

or do they still think a 1,000pt stompa is worth taking?

Because their playtesters keep telling them they're good. Reecius of Frontline Gaming said, and this is a direct quote, "The Stompa is worth every point".

With such advice, why would they change things up?

I can't tell if the FLG stuff about them deciding codex rules and points values is serious, or just an elaborate troll.

I have a good feeling about Warhammer Fest Europe next weekend.

I foresee a lot of pleasant surprises. My first army was orks, I would gladly jump back in with a new boyz kit and a decent dex.

They've been one of the worst treated armies in the game for like over a decade so it doesn't really surprise me if alot of people have moved on to better-supported armies.

Not everyone has the blind loyalty of Sisters fans.

 Glane wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
to add to your rant, why the hell didn't GW pull their collective heads out of their butts and reprice the majority of the index in the FAQ or the Chapter approved which have come out since?

or do they still think a 1,000pt stompa is worth taking?

Because their playtesters keep telling them they're good. Reecius of Frontline Gaming said, and this is a direct quote, "The Stompa is worth every point".

With such advice, why would they change things up?

If he said that about the 8E Stompa, Reecius is an idiot. Yes, the Stompa...with BS 5+...figuring in even one penalty to hit in 8E..is not worth a flying f...fig. But...but...there are ways to get it re-rolls! Well, re-rolling 6's sucks ballz, and rerolling 7's IS NOT POSSIBLE. So, the Stompa is worth every point...when its shooting weapons can't hit dick? Well, surely it was compensated by being way tougher than it should be, and by being a total nightmare once it does get into close combat, right? Wrong. An equal point value of Knights, who will of course have been effectively shooting the crap out of the Stompa at BS 3+ on the way in, will carve it up. The Stompa, and anything Ork that shoots, is utter gak under 8E. No matter how much fun Orks are to play, it really isn't fun when you can't compete AT ALL.

The other reason is Orks (and Eldar and non-Marked Chaos Space Marines) have gaping holes in their model range.

That is why Ork players are somewhat AWOL at the moment.

 Don Savik wrote:
Aaaaand its space wolves vs genestealer cults next. So I guess orks are dead last in the year? Sigh, I hope they don't wait for the holiday window for the ork release. I just want to play my darn orks :(

It's kind of hard to work on anything when you don't even know whats good/cool/coming out. Is there going to be a new unit that I want? Am I going to want to build another unit of flash gitz or something? At their current state only 3 units are playable (weirdboy, boy, KMK gun) so its hard to say what to invest in or convert in the mean time.

Having to shelve a 6000 point army for a year sucks.

Based on the rumors that the delay was a result of the Orks breaking the game (apparently being able to get multiple horde units into charge range alpha strike style broke the game a bit according to playtesting) which may have lead to some changes and further playtesting to try and make Orks fun and playable but not game breaking (looking at you 7th Edition WFB Daemons).

Sure, it sucks to be waiting (my Sisters are still awaiting reinforcements while I shelved my pure Inquisition army project due to FOC datasheet restrictions and I won't touch Sisters of Silence until they have more than a single kit to field (love the models but not when that's their only choice to field), but if it's for extra care and attention instead of a slipshod job I'm all for it. I want to see more cool Ork stuff, but for now we wait.

Then again as Sisters player I've become a fething master of waiting, so take that advice with salt.

fe40k wrote:
You want to know why the Ork Community has almost vanished?

Since the beginning, the rumors were Orks and Space Wolves would be released together, potentially in a kit box - but these were just rumors.

Then GW announced Orks and Space Wolves codecii are coming next.

Then, out of NOWHERE, and WITHOUT even announcing that they were in the works - GSC steal the Ork spotlight. The new boxed set is Space Wolves VS GSC, instead of SW vs Ork.

Out of nowhere? GW SAID THAT CULT WOULD BE GETTING MODELS BEFORE THEY WOULD GET THEIR CODEX!!!!

Sheesh. Some selective reading you have if you think cult models came out of nowhere.

tneva82 wrote:

fe40k wrote:
You want to know why the Ork Community has almost vanished?

Since the beginning, the rumors were Orks and Space Wolves would be released together, potentially in a kit box - but these were just rumors.

Then GW announced Orks and Space Wolves codecii are coming next.

Then, out of NOWHERE, and WITHOUT even announcing that they were in the works - GSC steal the Ork spotlight. The new boxed set is Space Wolves VS GSC, instead of SW vs Ork.

Out of nowhere? GW SAID THAT CULT WOULD BE GETTING MODELS BEFORE THEY WOULD GET THEIR CODEX!!!!

Sheesh. Some selective reading you have if you think cult models came out of nowhere.

Wasn't the accidental reveal of GSC models before Orks and Space Wolves got announced?

tneva82 wrote:

fe40k wrote:
You want to know why the Ork Community has almost vanished?

Since the beginning, the rumors were Orks and Space Wolves would be released together, potentially in a kit box - but these were just rumors.

Then GW announced Orks and Space Wolves codecii are coming next.

Then, out of NOWHERE, and WITHOUT even announcing that they were in the works - GSC steal the Ork spotlight. The new boxed set is Space Wolves VS GSC, instead of SW vs Ork.

Out of nowhere? GW SAID THAT CULT WOULD BE GETTING MODELS BEFORE THEY WOULD GET THEIR CODEX!!!!

Sheesh. Some selective reading you have if you think cult models came out of nowhere.

I'm honestly fine with the box set and stuff. I'm disappointed, sure, and I really did imagine orks would be getting our codex before SW, and I was fine with GSC getting new models before us- they did in fact say that GSC would be getting new models soon. But what I really think has pissed off the ork community is the lack of any news at all. He have no idea what's coming. Are we getting new models? Are we getting a box set? Are we getting new characters? Are they just going to re-release the index and just slap a few token stratagems on it and call it a day? We honestly have no idea. After being told three months ago that "orks are coming soon" we've had literally no news at all, and then for them to drop this huge announcement while orks are still out in the cold is a bit of a pain.

Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

Pretty sure no. You started to get hints and info once your turn became. So first you got announcement of next 3 codexes so if your codex was there start waiting. Then hype and info starts to drible for first of those. Then it gets released. Then for the next and so on.

Only differences so far are that a) there was only 2 codexes announced(and codex-unrelated miniatures due to GW making slight mistake with their photographing team) and that gap between that announcement and first tidbits for first codex being bit longer than usual(but with new edition of AOS, kill team and AT it was albeit bit crowded area. Expecting codexes amidsts that would be optimistic).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

IIRC they had those army previews, debuting various units, stratagems, and rules they had coming up. With GSC obviously they've shown these new models and their codex is rumored to be last.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

Mostly it's that there's a whole bunch of stars aligning which points to a null release of new stuff for Orks

* Total lack of anything GW regarding Orks (Not enough points to show them off, lol.)
* Lots of specialist games releases teased months early with leaks of new models (Rogue Trader, Battle of Pelenor Fields, Knights box)
* August White Dwarf was leaked, no Orks
* More specialist games being released (Rogue trader)
* Recent Rumour Engines point at a massive Slaanesh release
* New GSC stuff being shown off instead of new SW or Ork stuff on codex announcement
* Kill team release had nothing new Ork wise so close to the codex (Same goes for the Furries, see below...)
* Space Wolves were also kept back just like Orks, only to just get some upgrade sprues (Why was this held back so long? Are Orks getting the same treatment?)
* A whole community being ghosted
--- No response at all about models being sent to them by lolman1acs movement
--- No changes at all that needed to happen in CA
--- CA gave Orks the MOST out of touch stratagem ever. as well as an almost useless Warlord Trait
--- Community Posts using Orks as a piniata (Look how good this knight is, it killed 12 Killa Kans that cost so much more than it!!!!!`!)
--- Reece is GW's lead Ork Playtester "Stompa is good", "Grots are the best Ork Unit"

There were however, lots of Primaris teasers on launch of 8e (Which was the big poster child of this edition, so it may not be relatable.)

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

Pretty sure no. You started to get hints and info once your turn became. So first you got announcement of next 3 codexes so if your codex was there start waiting. Then hype and info starts to drible for first of those. Then it gets released. Then for the next and so on.

Only differences so far are that a) there was only 2 codexes announced(and codex-unrelated miniatures due to GW making slight mistake with their photographing team) and that gap between that announcement and first tidbits for first codex being bit longer than usual(but with new edition of AOS, kill team and AT it was albeit bit crowded area. Expecting codexes amidsts that would be optimistic).

So it's basically people getting self-hyped and then getting mad because GW is doing exactly what they should be doing and not pandering to them specially?

I mean, I'm not trying to be cruel here, I know the folly of getting on the hype train more times than I should have in the past, but I don't really see how any of this is GW's fault. "You guys are next" isn't a free pass to get leaks or news early, it's a notification that you're in the chute for the next codex releases and not much more. All this salt about not being told something you're not even supposed to be told about yet just reeks of self-entitlement to be honest.

It's people complaining that they're last or second-to-last, which must mean GW hates them and everything they get will be bad and the army will be horrible forever and GW wants everyone to burn their Orks armies and order Primaris marines.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

IIRC they had those army previews, debuting various units, stratagems, and rules they had coming up. With GSC obviously they've shown these new models and their codex is rumored to be last.

Accidentally putting models out in Warhammer World too early and then owning up to them coming out "soon" isn't quite the same thing as a proper preview or codex notification.

And we all know Sisters of Battle are going to be the true last codex of the update cycle next year. Just so we can get Sisters of Silence, the Inquisition and Codex: Primaris Marines first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

meleti wrote:
It's people complaining that they're last or second-to-last, which must mean GW hates them and everything they get will be bad and the army will be horrible forever and GW wants everyone to burn their Orks armies and order Primaris marines.

Seriously WHAT THE FECK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!? The later in an edition a codex appears the stronger and more balanced it tends to be (I say tends just in case someone can prove me wrong with a niche example from 2nd edition or something). The studio becomes more comfortable with how the system works, what it can handle and what ideas don't really work leading to much more solid and well rounded armies.

So basically we have people crying that they're codex will likely be AWESOME just because they don't have it yet?

Where the feck is the Exterminatus button when you need it?

 ClockworkZion wrote:



Seriously WHAT THE FECK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!? The later in an edition a codex appears the stronger and more balanced it tends to be (I say tends just in case someone can prove me wrong with a niche example from 2nd edition or something). The studio becomes more comfortable with how the system works, what it can handle and what ideas don't really work leading to much more solid and well rounded armies.

So basically we have people crying that they're codex will likely be AWESOME just because they don't have it yet?

Where the feck is the Exterminatus button when you need it?

Necrons got an average Codex.
Marines are still appearing within the top 10 in tournaments.
Imperial Guard are still one of the best Codexes.
Thousand Sons are average in every way other than certain characters and daemon princes.

What's this about later codexes being better and more rounded?

Clockwork, later codices are never more balanced. They always are stronger because the Studio goes, "Oh how about we add something new to it to show off?".

Orks are the ONLY codex where I could see that something new be something like a moral system that screws them over.

But general rule of thumb later codices are NEVER BALANCED. They're plain stronger.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So it's basically people getting self-hyped and then getting mad because GW is doing exactly what they should be doing and not pandering to them specially?

I mean, I'm not trying to be cruel here, I know the folly of getting on the hype train more times than I should have in the past, but I don't really see how any of this is GW's fault. "You guys are next" isn't a free pass to get leaks or news early, it's a notification that you're in the chute for the next codex releases and not much more. All this salt about not being told something you're not even supposed to be told about yet just reeks of self-entitlement to be honest.

Pretty much yeah.

Personally I'm less bothered by the time and more about will the codex be good. GW has lousy track record with orks and thanks to several design choices they have made it's hard to fix orks while maintaining their character AND keep game playable. One issue for example is that with rampart point drops while upping game sizes other armies are already quite big in model count. Now orks are generally quantity over quality so having that playstyle unviable isn't good(it doesn't have to be ONLY playstyle that's viable but should be viable style). However doing that starts to become issue due to table size AND time. If you upgrade orks by making them cheaper you will end up even bigger army which takes more space(keeping in mind you can't voluntarily even leave stuff in reserve so if you can't deploy all...Those are out then) and more time. But if you start upgrading stats and rules you end up toward less horde and more elite army. That's hard line to balance. But as it is I have played against SOB out of all things that nearly matched my orks in model count! That was rough one. Being up against BS3+ 3+ save horde that had almost as many models as my orks...

Would be nice that GW has figured some magic bullet but with rules and general design parameters making it hard for orks and doubly more so in tournament enviroment(or anywhere that's time limited like my gaming club game nights)...Gulp.

The latest codex, Imperial Knights, is very powerful and changed the entire 40k competitive meta. Harlequins and Drukhari aren't far behind. Tau is a solid codex. The only one since Necrons that doesn't have high tournament representation is Deathwatch, and they're pretty decent too.

The Space Marines appearing in competitive lists are overwhelmingly Blood Angels (a December codex) and are exactly what you accuse the Thousand Sons of being, cherry picked characters like smash captains and Mephiston. There's also a very few Dark Angels armies (also a December codex). Guilliman armies have become increasingly rare in recent months, and represent a large share (probably a majority) of the remaining Codex: Space Marines lists.

It's almost like you're just cherrypicking facts to fit a narrative.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

Necrons got an average Codex.
Marines are still appearing within the top 10 in tournaments.
Imperial Guard are still one of the best Codexes.
Thousand Sons are average in every way other than certain characters and daemon princes.

What's this about later codexes being better and more rounded?

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:



Seriously WHAT THE FECK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!? The later in an edition a codex appears the stronger and more balanced it tends to be (I say tends just in case someone can prove me wrong with a niche example from 2nd edition or something). The studio becomes more comfortable with how the system works, what it can handle and what ideas don't really work leading to much more solid and well rounded armies.

So basically we have people crying that they're codex will likely be AWESOME just because they don't have it yet?

Where the feck is the Exterminatus button when you need it?

Necrons got an average Codex.
Marines are still appearing within the top 10 in tournaments.
Imperial Guard are still one of the best Codexes.
Thousand Sons are average in every way other than certain characters and daemon princes.

What's this about later codexes being better and more rounded?

Save for Grey Knights (those poor kids) the worst GW has given us is mid-tier. And Blood Angels and Death Watch are the top contenders of Marines in tournaments at the moment, so let's not pretend every kind of Marine is running the roost. Newest flavors of Marines are trumping older ones hands down.

The curve isn't as drastic as old editions, but that's not to say newer books aren't more solid with better internal balance and a wider array of good builds in them.

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

Pretty sure no. You started to get hints and info once your turn became. So first you got announcement of next 3 codexes so if your codex was there start waiting. Then hype and info starts to drible for first of those. Then it gets released. Then for the next and so on.

Only differences so far are that a) there was only 2 codexes announced(and codex-unrelated miniatures due to GW making slight mistake with their photographing team) and that gap between that announcement and first tidbits for first codex being bit longer than usual(but with new edition of AOS, kill team and AT it was albeit bit crowded area. Expecting codexes amidsts that would be optimistic).

that's exactly how it gets, you typicall only get info in the week leading up to the pre-order.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Here's a question (since I missed like 6 months of this edition and honestly don't know): Since 8th dropped, other than telling us what is in the pipeline next, has GW announced any details about an army prior to the lead up the the codex's release?

Because as far as I know, we haven't heard anything about other armies until it was time for them to go up for pre-order, so why would it be different here?

Pretty sure no. You started to get hints and info once your turn became. So first you got announcement of next 3 codexes so if your codex was there start waiting. Then hype and info starts to drible for first of those. Then it gets released. Then for the next and so on.

Only differences so far are that a) there was only 2 codexes announced(and codex-unrelated miniatures due to GW making slight mistake with their photographing team) and that gap between that announcement and first tidbits for first codex being bit longer than usual(but with new edition of AOS, kill team and AT it was albeit bit crowded area. Expecting codexes amidsts that would be optimistic).

that's exactly how it gets, you typicall only get info in the week leading up to the pre-order.

Which invalidates every post crying about how we don't have info about where the Orks are. Of course we don't have info, they're not coming yet!

meleti wrote:
It's people complaining that they're last or second-to-last, which must mean GW hates them and everything they get will be bad and the army will be horrible forever and GW wants everyone to burn their Orks armies and order Primaris marines.

Except orkz are coming off of 2 complete Editions without a new Codex or units and then getting arguably the worst codex in 7th, the worst supplement in 7th and then getting a brand new unit that was completely useless. We are also coming off of the 8th edition index release which saw ALL of our options being nerfed into the ground and leaving us with 1 play style which is in my opinion excessively boring, take 150-210 boyz or you aren't competitive. So, also in my opinion, it isn't so much the "GW hates orkz because we are 2nd to last" and more "GW has a track record of doing feth all for Orkz and its getting tiresome" I am at the point where honestly, if the 8th codex isn't good I am probably going to pack it in and switch hobbies. It has been over a decade since I could enjoy my army and be competitive, I don't like having to ask my opponents to tone down there lists so I can have a chance.

SemperMortis wrote:

meleti wrote:
It's people complaining that they're last or second-to-last, which must mean GW hates them and everything they get will be bad and the army will be horrible forever and GW wants everyone to burn their Orks armies and order Primaris marines.

Except orkz are coming off of 2 complete Editions without a new Codex or units and then getting arguably the worst codex in 7th, the worst supplement in 7th and then getting a brand new unit that was completely useless. We are also coming off of the 8th edition index release which saw ALL of our options being nerfed into the ground and leaving us with 1 play style which is in my opinion excessively boring, take 150-210 boyz or you aren't competitive. So, also in my opinion, it isn't so much the "GW hates orkz because we are 2nd to last" and more "GW has a track record of doing feth all for Orkz and its getting tiresome" I am at the point where honestly, if the 8th codex isn't good I am probably going to pack it in and switch hobbies. It has been over a decade since I could enjoy my army and be competitive, I don't like having to ask my opponents to tone down there lists so I can have a chance.

I don't want to start up the crusade about how screwed over Sisters players have been for around two decades now (and only one model concept to show for the "we'll keep you in the loop as we work on them" we were promised) but Orks have not had it the worst. Basically any army that isn't Marines spends some time slumping and while Orks weren't doing well, it's not maliciousness that an army sucks, it's a misguided attempt to do what they think will be fun only to have it bite them in the ass when it turns out the community doesn't play the army that way.

Since we're seeing actual playtesting and only one codex that's truly bad with everything else being mid-tier or better, and more viable builds in the newer books over the old ones I don't think Ork players should be worrying.

Save that for when they actually start showing us the rules.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Since we're seeing actual playtesting and only one codex that's truly bad with everything else being mid-tier or better, and more viable builds in the newer books over the old ones I don't think Ork players should be worrying.

Save that for when they actually start showing us the rules.

Honestly, while I truly think our codex will be in a good spot, some dark shadow in the back of my mind can't help but imagine the worst case scenario and just straight-up not fixing our codex. Maybe I'm that kind of morbid person who likes to think of the worst possible outcome, who knows.

Sure, I complain about the lack of news, but at the end of the day I could forgive the wait and even forgive not getting any new models if our codex is actually solid. If not though, hoo-boy, might be time to find a new army. And I think going forward that's the stance I need to take. Accept the lack of news or rumors, and just be patient. Being petulant isn't going to speed anything up.

meleti wrote:
The latest codex, Imperial Knights, is very powerful and changed the entire 40k competitive meta. Harlequins and Drukhari aren't far behind. Tau is a solid codex. The only one since Necrons that doesn't have high tournament representation is Deathwatch, and they're pretty decent too.

The Space Marines appearing in competitive lists are overwhelmingly Blood Angels (a December codex) and are exactly what you accuse the Thousand Sons of being, cherry picked characters like smash captains and Mephiston. There's also a very few Dark Angels armies (also a December codex). Guilliman armies have become increasingly rare in recent months, and represent a large share (probably a majority) of the remaining Codex: Space Marines lists.

It's almost like you're just cherrypicking facts to fit a narrative.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

Necrons got an average Codex.
Marines are still appearing within the top 10 in tournaments.
Imperial Guard are still one of the best Codexes.
Thousand Sons are average in every way other than certain characters and daemon princes.

What's this about later codexes being better and more rounded?

What is my narrative? If anything I'm trying to say "Theres been some bad codex and the creep isn't' as bad as it once was"

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Save for Grey Knights (those poor kids) the worst GW has given us is mid-tier. And Blood Angels and Death Watch are the top contenders of Marines in tournaments at the moment, so let's not pretend every kind of Marine is running the roost. Newest flavors of Marines are trumping older ones hands down.

The curve isn't as drastic as old editions, but that's not to say newer books aren't more solid with better internal balance and a wider array of good builds in them.

Agreed. I'm a bit worried that it'll be one of the worse codexes for the reasons I posted up above. The SW codex should however be telling (Have they learnt from Knights or over knee jerked)

 ClockworkZion wrote:
...and while Orks weren't doing well, it's not maliciousness that an army sucks, it's a misguided attempt to do what they think will be fun only to have it bite them in the ass when it turns out the community doesn't play the army that way.

I disagree, 7th edition ork codex and supplement were clearly not a failed attempt at making orks fun.

Every single model that has been somewhat decent in the old codex got a major nerf (lootaz, kanz, battelwagons, shoota boyz, etc...), many rules were clearly never used once in a playtest(Rolling 63 shots for flash gits one at a time, mandatory deep striking for 46-91 models, Thrakka rolling three additional warlord traits from a table which had only two that had any effect on him, etc, etc...) and supplement rules which were all downside, with every single formation inside forcing you to buy more models than you could reasonably field in 5th/6th.

So I'd say its somewhere between the malice of trying to force us into buying new models and not giving a grot's ass about the quality of what they were delivering.

That said, I agree with all your other points, there is no reason for so many ork players to act the way they do. The codex will come around.

Heard orks are coming in november. So, we're gona have rebalances around december. Meaning that we'll have around a month before the new year tourney. And by that time noone will know what good we have and to prepare any counters. Excellent.

 koooaei wrote:
Heard orks are coming in november. So, we're gona have rebalances around december. Meaning that we'll have around a month before the new year tourney. And by that time noone will know what good we have. Excellent.

That november comes from bogus rumour that was already shown to be flat out wrong by having tons of dates wrong.

Here's the thing: So far every time GW has released "these codexes next" those have come in quick succession from each other. People thought knights would be august with huge gap between previous two as well. Guess how that panned? They came in june. There's no reason whatsoever to think GW breaks that pattern now. September is where orks will come almost certainly. 8.9 for pre-order would be my guess.

So? Orks are coming. Be it november, december or january. It's soon.

Index rules weren’t bad through malice... they wrote rules for every single unit possible for all armies at once. Whilst still writing 7th supplements. No surprise that quality suffered.

And there’s no way they could “learn from Knights” because of print times. This will have been on a boat before Knights was released.

I hope Orks get a great Codex as inner teenage-me would secretly love to collect them again!

fe40k wrote:
Then GW announced Orks and Space Wolves codecii are coming next.

Yup, UK Games Expo seminar - I was in the room for it.

fe40k wrote:
Then, out of NOWHERE, and WITHOUT even announcing that they were in the works - GSC steal the Ork spotlight. The new boxed set is Space Wolves VS GSC, instead of SW vs Ork.

And then it gets worse - "New models are coming out soon!"; and then they go on to showcase Space Wolf new models (which is fine), but also new GSC models.

OK, this is false - no mention was made of a SW/Ork boxed set. No mention was made of a big boxed set, period.

Models were mentioned for SW & Orks, this is true.

But the only model shown in the seminar was the GSC Abberant with street sign - so we knew about them at the same time as the books.

We were also explicitly told that the GSC models were coming out ahead of their Codex, and that this was not to be seen as an announcement of the GSC Codex.

fe40k wrote:
Where the FETH are the Ork models? The Ork announcements? The Ork rumors and leaks?

Probably a week or two away - given GW usually operates on the 3 month preview window (most recently confirmed with the Titanicus Warhound not being seen at an event alongside the Warlord and Reaver, as it wasn't going to be out until over 3 months later), I doubt we're looking any later than early September - possibly 01/09/18, but I can't promise that (as I don't have any info beyond the seminar and extrapolation of previous trends to work with).

fe40k wrote:
Oh, right, they got shoveled into the remnants bin, like they've been since 3rd edition. Never forget that in an Index where everything is badly overpriced; GW didn't have 4000 points of Orks for Adepticon 8th edition.

Orks, the classic Space Marine rival, and one of the most iconic 40k races, who've been in the game since the beginning - Orks, don't have 4000 points.

Tell my why Orks should care about GW? Why?

I can't answer the 4,000 points thing - I'm not sure it wasn't someone in the web team coming up with a quick reason why Orks weren't an option, and communicating a false message.

I do think the Ork community needs to chill the feth down a bit, though - sure, Tooth & Claw is a surprise, and I can see why it wouldn't be a welcome one for you. But if we look at it as the reason for the release of the new GSC models - like Forgebane and the Armigers - then it isn't out of line with recent GW practise.

GW isn't out to get you - they do need to do a better line on taking a read of their audience, and definitely need to work on how they communicate things, but even they are not stupid enough to be deliberately taking a dump on a portion of the fanbase - they've learned from the SoB players, even when they didn't learn from the Squat fans...

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Index rules weren’t bad through malice... they wrote rules for every single unit possible for all armies at once.

I agree, the index was a genuine attempt at turning the terrible 7th edition codex into a decent army. The biggest problem of the index is that it assumed that many models were fine in 7th and translated them to 8th - they were basically polishing a turd.

I'm not at all upset about the GSC vs SW box set. The mere fact that we are now back in the 40k news cycle makes me happy. (I'm sorry, I can't take anymore AT stuff, I'm happy for everyone hyped for it though). Orks will probably be along shortly, maybe in September, maybe in Orktober.. Whichever the case any eventual new models will already have been made and the rules already written.

It's just a waiting game at this point. As soon as the codex is out we'll know if orks are viable or not. Then we can potentially get back to defeatism and/or constructive criticism

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So it's basically people getting self-hyped and then getting mad because GW is doing exactly what they should be doing and not pandering to them specially?

I mean, I'm not trying to be cruel here, I know the folly of getting on the hype train more times than I should have in the past, but I don't really see how any of this is GW's fault. "You guys are next" isn't a free pass to get leaks or news early, it's a notification that you're in the chute for the next codex releases and not much more. All this salt about not being told something you're not even supposed to be told about yet just reeks of self-entitlement to be honest.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Which invalidates every post crying about how we don't have info about where the Orks are. Of course we don't have info, they're not coming yet!

Have you joined this thread just to troll Zion? Because that's how it's coming across. Orks and Space Wolves were announced over 75 days ago as the next 2 codexes. Other codex announcements have followed with previews 1-2 weeks later. Do you see the difference there? We've had nothing for over 2 months. No model previews. No rule previews. Nothing.

I'll also remind you that GW have set themselves up for a fall here, no one else. They claimed they'd get "all codexes in our hands within a year of 8th dropping". They've broken this promise. They also built expectations with their general method of announcing codexes and then previewing after as I mentioned previously. Something else that they have radically changed only for these 2 releases.

You've also had some context from Semper (years of awful rules, no updates and general neglect), that you flat out ignored because apparently "Sisters have had it worse". Right. SISTERS ARE ALSO GETTING A COMPLETELY REVAMPED MODEL LINE. I think you'd find there would be less Orkish complaints if we had a similar promise.

I'd fething love to see your reaction if the same thing had happened with Thousand Sons. I would love to hear the amount of whining that would flow from that part of the community.

Stop trolling this thread, if you have nothing constructive to add and just want to insult Ork players, you don't belong here.

tneva82 wrote:
Pretty much yeah.

Pretty much no. See above.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Have you joined this thread just to troll Zion? Because that's how it's coming across. Orks and Space Wolves were announced over 75 days ago as the next 2 codexes. Other codex announcements have followed with previews 1-2 weeks later. Do you see the difference there? We've had nothing for over 2 months. No model previews. No rule previews. Nothing.

They got previews for NEXT codex. Not for 2nd and 3rd.

You have point normally we would have got sooner wolf hints but for orks it matters not if they tease at wolves at june when ork teasers would start when orks are next, ie after wolves codex release which is, wait for it, 25th august. So earliest you would have got ork teasers is 26th anyway. And teasing wolves june, july and august would be silly. As would be teasing june and then nothing until release.

You did not get tyranid teasers when next was IG. Simple as that. GW teases NEXT codex in turn. But yeah orks are obviously special snowflake codex that deserves something other codexes didn't get because...reasons.

Yeah, everyone really needs to chill out. The level of paranoid, entitled screeching really seems to have kicked up a notch lately. The Codex is coming when it’s coming, and suggesting that GW are pursuing some sort of vendetta against Orks is just mental. Can’t wait for the Codex to contain a minor flaw that stops it being absolutely perfect, and all the whingers who’ve threatened to leave the hobby make good on that and piss off out of 40K.

 Nazrak wrote:
Yeah, everyone really needs to chill out. The level of paranoid, entitled screeching really seems to have kicked up a notch lately. The Codex is coming when it’s coming, and suggesting that GW are pursuing some sort of vendetta against Orks is just mental. Can’t wait for the Codex to contain a minor flaw that stops it being absolutely perfect, and all the whingers who’ve threatened to leave the hobby make good on that and piss off out of 40K.

I should stay out of this, but...

Thinking that GW is out to spite ork players with a bad codex is silly. On the other hand I think that the rules team lack the tools to make a good ork dex in 8:th. I think we will get a codex that caters for the tournament scene with a few strong builds but with a large number of models only fit for open play or removed completely.

The -1 to hit makes ork shooting almost impossible to balance against other armies.

 Nazrak wrote:
Yeah, everyone really needs to chill out. The level of paranoid, entitled screeching really seems to have kicked up a notch lately. The Codex is coming when it’s coming, and suggesting that GW are pursuing some sort of vendetta against Orks is just mental. Can’t wait for the Codex to contain a minor flaw that stops it being absolutely perfect, and all the whingers who’ve threatened to leave the hobby make good on that and piss off out of 40K.

"you need to chill out"
not everyone is born with the apparent patience of the gods. 2 whole months of no news after announcement is cruel when you consider how they handled the other codexs. now admittedly in the past when they announced 2 dexes the articles would start relatively close to each other, so now that SW are finally getting articles im expecting ork stuff soon too.

"its coming when its coming"
yes, many players are asking for "when codex", but i dont think thats the main issue here, its the fact of absolutely no ork related articles from GW that isnt imperial knight spank or showing off a fans collection. many of us are asking for articles to help "HYPE" us up, and when GW is so unwilling to do any of that it makes us think they are trying to downplay the release, and many will assume thats because the codex is going to be crap. the silence is disturbing.

"piss off out of 40K"
you dont have much sympathy do you? many players have been neglected by GW for so long that if this release is not perfect or even just good then that would be the final straw. players were dropping off at the neglect from 7th edition, and so it wouldn't be so hard to believe that many would contemplate dropping off this edition. and no, having many players drop out with their ork armies just hurts the hobby. years or months from now, when everyone plays tournament spank then all you would have to blame is yourself because you encouraged the players with fun and interesting lists to "piss off"

geargutz wrote:
"its coming when its coming"
yes, many players are asking for "when codex", but i dont think thats the main issue here, its the fact of absolutely no ork related articles from GW that isnt imperial knight spank or showing off a fans collection. many of us are asking for articles to help "HYPE" us up, and when GW is so unwilling to do any of that it makes us think they are trying to downplay the release, and many will assume thats because the codex is going to be crap. the silence is disturbing.

So because GW didn't hype tyranids when next codex was IG it was disturbing?

They don't hype codex that's not next one out. What is so hard about that?

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Have you joined this thread just to troll Zion? Because that's how it's coming across. Orks and Space Wolves were announced over 75 days ago as the next 2 codexes. Other codex announcements have followed with previews 1-2 weeks later. Do you see the difference there? We've had nothing for over 2 months. No model previews. No rule previews. Nothing.

They got previews for NEXT codex. Not for 2nd and 3rd.

You have point normally we would have got sooner wolf hints but for orks it matters not if they tease at wolves at june when ork teasers would start when orks are next, ie after wolves codex release which is, wait for it, 25th august. So earliest you would have got ork teasers is 26th anyway. And teasing wolves june, july and august would be silly. As would be teasing june and then nothing until release.

You did not get tyranid teasers when next was IG. Simple as that. GW teases NEXT codex in turn. But yeah orks are obviously special snowflake codex that deserves something other codexes didn't get because...reasons.

You must have missed all those new GSC model previews??

tneva82 wrote:

geargutz wrote:
"its coming when its coming"
yes, many players are asking for "when codex", but i dont think thats the main issue here, its the fact of absolutely no ork related articles from GW that isnt imperial knight spank or showing off a fans collection. many of us are asking for articles to help "HYPE" us up, and when GW is so unwilling to do any of that it makes us think they are trying to downplay the release, and many will assume thats because the codex is going to be crap. the silence is disturbing.

So because GW didn't hype tyranids when next codex was IG it was disturbing?

They don't hype codex that's not next one out. What is so hard about that?

did you read this part of my post

" now admittedly in the past when they announced 2 dexes the articles would start relatively close to each other, so now that SW are finally getting articles im expecting ork stuff soon too. "

did i say we should be getting articles at the same time? nope, im just expecting them soon. that could be days,weeks but at the most a month, though i would get agitated if they waited for another month to put out any articles.

maybe you should've read the whole post of mine, your inability to try to understand what i was saying is starting to make you seem more and more like a troll just waiting to punch into your keyboard "WAAAGH, ORK PLAYERS ARE A BUNCH OF UNREASONABLE WIIIIIIIHNERS!!!"

I've come to realize it doesn't really matter how rational a reaction is to a marketing situation. The whole point of marketing is to generate positive emotion which can lead to purchases, not to generate rational thought. So if you're currently generating negative emotion among the long time customers for a given product line things need reevaluating.

And the thing is, it really would be easy for GW to do this. As soon as the codex has gone to the printer and is not going to be changed further, an article every now and again showing off a tiny tiny element would be super easy to do.

According to their financial reports, their warhammer community site approach works, so it is really strange that the approach that was very successful for the way all the various 40k armies and AoS armies have been previewed has not been applied to the Orks and Space Wolves codex announcements.

It really would take next to no effort, and be a proven successful thing to do, to put out a single article in both June and July about the new Ork and Space Wolf codexes.

One stratagem. One unit profile. One ability for like goffs or something. The article needs to contain such a small amount of content.

One of the greatest strengths of 40k as a product is that it invites the customer to participate in the larger world of the 40k universe. GW should have learned by now that the Kirby dark years of shrinking revenue where you don't ever engage with your customer base was a bad idea. And if it's a bad idea for your entire customer base, it's probably a bad idea for a subset of your customer base.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I've come to realize it doesn't really matter how rational a reaction is to a marketing situation. The whole point of marketing is to generate positive emotion which can lead to purchases, not to generate rational thought. So if you're currently generating negative emotion among the long time customers for a given product line things need reevaluating.

i like your reasoning, exalt for you

 frozenwastes wrote:
I've come to realize it doesn't really matter how rational a reaction is to a marketing situation. The whole point of marketing is to generate positive emotion which can lead to purchases, not to generate rational thought. So if you're currently generating negative emotion among the long time customers for a given product line things need reevaluating.

And the thing is, it really would be easy for GW to do this. As soon as the codex has gone to the printer and is not going to be changed further, an article every now and again showing off a tiny tiny element would be super easy to do.

According to their financial reports, their warhammer community site approach works, so it is really strange that the approach that was very successful for the way all the various 40k armies and AoS armies have been previewed has not been applied to the Orks and Space Wolves codex announcements.

It really would take next to no effort, and be a proven successful thing to do, to put out a single article in both June and July about the new Ork and Space Wolf codexes.

One stratagem. One unit profile. One ability for like goffs or something. The article needs to contain such a small amount of content.

One of the greatest strengths of 40k as a product is that it invites the customer to participate in the larger world of the 40k universe. GW should have learned by now that the Kirby dark years of shrinking revenue where you don't ever engage with your customer base was a bad idea. And if it's a bad idea for your entire customer base, it's probably a bad idea for a subset of your customer base.

Great post. A million times this.

 frozenwastes wrote:

According to their financial reports, their warhammer community site approach works, so it is really strange that the approach that was very successful for the way all the various 40k armies and AoS armies have been previewed has not been applied to the Orks and Space Wolves codex announcements.

You realize right that was for new edition? Which funny that GW did also on 40k side...Including orks.

GW has done nothing less for orks than what they have done with other races. And still players whine "bohoo we didn't get more than what others got"

tneva82 wrote:
GW has done nothing less for orks than what they have done with other races. And still players whine "bohoo we didn't get more than what others got"

it is 100% irrelevant that you think players are whining. Or that they are wrong in their assessment of what orks and space wolves have had published about them between the announcing of their codex and the release of it.

It means less than nothing.

The point of marketing is to generate positive emotion so if you announce a codex and then go dark for a couple months, that's a marketing failure.

You realize right that was for new edition? Which funny that GW did also on 40k side...Including orks.

As well, you're also wrong. The recent AoS releases are not just the new edition. Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth Deepkin were not a new edition launch. They got some teasers, a new announcement and then articles with real content. Just like many, many of the 40k armies. Orks and Space Wolves? Not so much. Announce them in June and then... crickets chirping. No other codeces had that approach. They all got articles and previews and videos stuff. Finally we have some Space Wolf stuff, but Orks... still crickets chirping.

And there's just no need for it. GW has clearly stated in their financial report that engaging with their customers works and is now their priority. So there is no reason at all to justify not engaging with the ork subset of the customers.

This isn't ork players being unreasonable or whining, this is GW not working a plan that they know works and that they have said they are committed to in their financial reports. I think it's because of available employee time, but that doesn't actually matter to people who are waiting to participate in the larger 40k universe in the form of orks and then... silence is all they get.

--

Yeah it’s not though, is it? It’s just a vocal minority pissing and moaning about an imaginary bias against Orks; short of giving them the moon on a fething stick they’re never going to be happy, so there’s very little GW can do to placate them. I suspect the reasons there’s little in the way of visible enthusiasm for Orks at the moment is that every time the subject comes up, it gets hijacked by the usual suspects dragging the discussion into the realms of unrelenting negativity, and people can’t be arsed listening to the same tired complaints getting rehashed over and over again.

 frozenwastes wrote:

As well, you're also wrong. The recent AoS releases are not just the new edition. Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth Deepkin were not a new edition launch. They got some teasers, a new announcement and then articles with real content. Just like many, many of the 40k armies. Orks and Space Wolves? Not so much. Announce them in June and then... crickets chirping. No other codeces had that approach. They all got articles and previews and videos stuff. Finally we have some Space Wolf stuff, but Orks... still crickets chirping.

Ah yeah those that come FOR NEXT CODEX IN LINE!

Well gee duh no wonder orks haven't got them BECAUSE THEY AREN'T NEXT IN LINE! You didn't see tyranid teasers when ig codex was next either.

Of course GW could have teased wolves at june. of course then it would have been months of no teasing before release. That would btw kill the hype in advance. It's more effective to tease shortly before release. Which is why GW puts teasers shortly before release and not months ago. Pattern they, funny that, continue now as well with wolf teasers starting SHORTLY BEFORE THE CODEX.

Pattern that has, funny that, continued past year, they are following in same style with wolves and orks.

ONLY difference is there was gap due to AOS 2nd ed, kill team and AT but anybody thinking GW would release codex at the same time as those is drinking something lot stronger than beer.

And there's just no need for it. GW has clearly stated in their financial report that engaging with their customers works and is now their priority. So there is no reason at all to justify not engaging with the ork subset of the customers.

This isn't ork players whining, this is GW not universally applying a marketing plan that they know works. It's entirely possible the result of a shortage of employee time. They've also announced they are hiring more people. So maybe this sort of announce something and then do nothing won't happen again.

Ah yes. GW not giving orks more than they have given all other races thorough year is GW being bad.

Funny thing though 8th ed sales are going up. Maybe their marketing plan THEY ARE FOLLOWING WITH WOLVES AND ORKS TO THE DOT is actually working?

tneva82 wrote:

Ah yeah those that come FOR NEXT CODEX IN LINE!

Well gee duh no wonder orks haven't got them BECAUSE THEY AREN'T NEXT IN LINE! You didn't see tyranid teasers when ig codex was next either.

Shouting it in capital letters is silly. Tyranids did not get announced followed by two months of silence. Neither did IG.

Pattern they, funny that, continue now as well with wolf teasers starting SHORTLY BEFORE THE CODEX.

Pattern that has, funny that, continued past year, they are following in same style with wolves and orks.

ONLY difference is there was gap due to AOS 2nd ed, kill team and AT but anybody thinking GW would release codex at the same time as those is drinking something lot stronger than beer.

This is exactly the problem. If you have a pattern of announcement --> previews --> preorder being a short amount of time and then you know you have three other games (AT, KT and AoS2) you need to take that into consideration.

One article. One. That's all it would have taken.

Ah yes. GW not giving orks more than they have given all other races thorough year is GW being bad.

How in the world is GW not saying nothing given more than for other armies? One article. That's it. That's all it would have taken to gut this negativity before it cropped up.

Stop putting this on the disappointed customers. It's not their job to be positive. it's GW job to tell their customers about the products they might want to buy and if there's a gap coming up because of other releases, maybe take that into consideration.

Funny thing though 8th ed sales are going up. Maybe their marketing plan THEY ARE FOLLOWING WITH WOLVES AND ORKS TO THE DOT is actually working?

The marketing plan that has worked is one where there is not months of silence. Months of silence is the old way GW operated.

Do I think Space Wolves and Orks in the end will be a success for GW? Yes. But that doesn't mean they didn't mess up here. They should have done with Space Wolves and Orks what they did with the other armies. Timely warhammer community articles. And if there's a gap caused by other releases, compensate for it.

 frozenwastes wrote:

This doesn't make any sense and shouting it in capital letters won't change that. Tyranids did not get announced followed by two months of silence. Neither did IG.

Yes. So in that sense it's the WOLVES who have more to complain. But of course alternative was teasers at june, then nothing. They won't release codex alongside other big releases.

This is exactly the problem. If you have a pattern of announcement --> previews --> preorder being a short amount of time and then you know you have three other games (AT, KT and AoS2) you need to take that into consideration.

Ah yes it would have been better not to release next codexes until ~early august yes?

Well guess that could have worked. Then wolves could have got first teasers quickly.

Of course then entitled ork players would have been demanding to know what codexes are next.

GW can never satisfy some ork players.

Stop putting this on the disappointed customers. It's not their job to be positive. it's GW job to tell their customers about the products they might want to buy and if there's a gap coming up because of other releases, maybe take that into consideration.

They gave us advance view what next codexes are. Of course they could have held that back but not sure how that would have made things any better...We would have learned up wolves&orks are next like in past 2 weeks with nothing on june and july.

There is simply a large difference between Index armies and Codex armies in terms of game play experience. To say nothing about the fiction, art and pictures of painted models that are in a Codex but not an Index. Strength of the armies aside, a codex has all sorts of interesting things like stratagems and sub faction abilities and relics and the like. The longer a subset of your player base does not have access to this, the longer they don't have access to the full vision for the edition.

So if you're going to do that you need to be really careful about not also failing to engage with that subset of the customer base. This isn't the time to go dark and not say anything after announcing a codex.

In fact, it's the worst possible time to say nothing. If you're going to make players wait the longest for a codex (and some army has to be the last one) then you need to make sure that subset of the customer base is engaged with properly.

Its it true that there's a subset of the ork players that are extra negative? That can be true as well. But then why make things worse with total silence? We've seen over the years that a negative minority voice can be very powerful in online communities. It would be stupid to feed into the negativity with an extended period of silence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

They gave us advance view what next codexes are. Of course they could have held that back but not sure how that would have made things any better...We would have learned up wolves&orks are next like in past 2 weeks with nothing on june and july.

GW is not trapped between choosing to tell people Space Wolves and Orks are next and saying nothing. That's a false dichotomy. They have many many options and I think I've already suggested the best one. It's the best because it would have given Space Wolf and Ork players something real to be excited about and would have taken very, very little effort.

One article for Space Wolves in July. One for Orks. And possibly even GSC assuming there's something finalized on that front as well. Each previewing 2-3 rules elements from the new codex.

That's all it would have taken for the Ork subset of the player base to be far more positive and excited about the upcoming codex product.

Going forward I happen to believe that the marketing content that will come up in the future will work. Space Wolves and Orks will sell well as a result of the warhammer community articles, facebook posts, youtube vidoes and so on. It's going to work. And for Genestealer Cult.

But nothing about that future success doesn't mean it wasn't stupid to have a summer of silence on those armies. When you've asked a portion of your player base (orks, space wolves and GSC players) to settle for less than the full vision of the edition (the codex has that vision for each army, the index does not) for longer than everyone else you need to take that into consideration when planning your customer engagement. And then doubly so if you're also going to have a delay for three very large product launches like KT, AoS2 and AT.

Any Ork, Space Wolf or GSC player that saw the short distance between previously announced codexes, their previews and the release of the codex and then has been frustrated by their army getting months of silence isn't being a whiner. If you announce a codex is next and then it comes out really soon and then announce another and it's months of silence, people are justified in having a WTF? reaction.

I played my last WAAAGH!!! a long time ago now. Tbh, I am loosing the interest in one of the most iconic factions out there.
I just burned out loosing every game and getting frustrated because all those cool looking models don't work and have nothing in the pocket to change that.
Fluffwise they are as tough as it gets. And what happens on the battlefield... ? Just frustrated I tell you. I don't know if I will restart the WAAAGH! when the book comes out.

 Kustomer D wrote:
I played my last WAAAGH!!! a long time ago now. Tbh, I am loosing the interest in one of the most iconic factions out there.
I just burned out loosing every game and getting frustrated because all those cool looking models don't work and have nothing in the pocket to change that.
Fluffwise they are as tough as it gets. And what happens on the battlefield... ? Just frustrated I tell you. I don't know if I will restart the WAAAGH! when the book comes out.

What about if you just read a community article that showed a strategem or two, a relic and maybe a clan ability? A stratagem that let an ork unit deploy from a trukk after it moves? Or some crazy "push the big red button!" ability? Any one of a million zany things that orks could have in stratagems and abilities?

Would this frustration and uncertainty about playing orks in the future be reassessed if you would be given a single solitary piece of information about something new?

Or is it too little too late now?

As for myself, I think the Ork codex is going to have all that same sort of stuff that's in other codexes. So I think I'm going to take advantage of the Ork melancholy and post on some local buy-sell groups and try to score some used orks! If lots of existing players are at a tipping point, maybe I'll be able to get some orks for 75-80% off retail or something.

 Nazrak wrote:
Yeah it’s not though, is it? It’s just a vocal minority pissing and moaning about an imaginary bias against Orks; short of giving them the moon on a fething stick they’re never going to be happy, so there’s very little GW can do to placate them. I suspect the reasons there’s little in the way of visible enthusiasm for Orks at the moment is that every time the subject comes up, it gets hijacked by the usual suspects dragging the discussion into the realms of unrelenting negativity, and people can’t be arsed listening to the same tired complaints getting rehashed over and over again.

Except that is a load of bull. You know it. I know it. Ork players were over the moon when our codex was announced. I think its one of the most 'liked' posts on their Facebook page.

Then months of silence with nothing except 'its coming soon lol'. Well I don't consider 3 months 'soon' given the rate of other codex releases. Then there's the one dimensional play style that wasn't helped by Chapter Approved. Add the treatment of past editions.

Customers (which is what we are, by the way) can only take so much. No Ork player anywhere believes GW hates Orks. What a stupid notion. Many believe that they don't value our player base in comparison to others. Many believe they simply don't know what to do with the faction. Others believe they simply do whatever they believe will maximise their profits.

Stop attacking customers. We have a right to express our discontent. We also have a right to leave the game. This isn't the fault of the customer, its a feth up by GW.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

We also have a right to leave the game.

Nobody’s trying to stop you. Off you pop then.

I've come to realize it doesn't really matter how rational a reaction is to a marketing situation. The whole point of marketing is to generate positive emotion which can lead to purchases, not to generate rational thought. So if you're currently generating negative emotion among the long time customers for a given product line things need reevaluating.

And the thing is, it really would be easy for GW to do this. As soon as the codex has gone to the printer and is not going to be changed further, an article every now and again showing off a tiny tiny element would be super easy to do.

According to their financial reports, their warhammer community site approach works, so it is really strange that the approach that was very successful for the way all the various 40k armies and AoS armies have been previewed has not been applied to the Orks and Space Wolves codex announcements.

It really would take next to no effort, and be a proven successful thing to do, to put out a single article in both June and July about the new Ork and Space Wolf codexes.

One stratagem. One unit profile. One ability for like goffs or something. The article needs to contain such a small amount of content.

One of the greatest strengths of 40k as a product is that it invites the customer to participate in the larger world of the 40k universe. GW should have learned by now that the Kirby dark years of shrinking revenue where you don't ever engage with your customer base was a bad idea. And if it's a bad idea for your entire customer base, it's probably a bad idea for a subset of your customer base.

Stop talking sense FFS.

 Nazrak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

We also have a right to leave the game.

Nobody’s trying to stop you. Off you pop then.

Great response. Leave the thread. Obvious troll is obvious.

GW has a huge list of podcasters and youtube creators and bloggers that they already send product to in advance so people can make content about it around release time.

GW could take little images from the new codex like how they show off a single stratagem or ability in a little text box and send a smattering of Space Wolf, GSC and Ork rules to say 20 of these content creators. 6 or 7 snippets for each of the three codex books.

Within 24 hours there would be so much social media buzz. They'd get shared and reposted and tweeted and spread all over. Youtube speculation videos about how the new rule might work with the army, blog posts, forum and reddit threads, twitter threads. So much content would pop up so fast.

There are just so many ways GW could create buzz with little or no effort. Months of silence just makes no sense. If the Warhammer facebook, live, TV and community teams are super busy right now, just have someone else do the content creation for you. They already do it by sending these people physical product to show off for when preorders go up, why not tiny snippets of information? The content creators obviously have to agree to certain terms and conditions to get the physical product early (see Tabletop Minions video on Kill Team mentioning when he was allowed to start showing the product) so they could have them agree to only talk about the info in certain ways. As long as it was remotely reasonable, they could leverage the existing content creators and not lose control of the message.

When there are so many things GW could have done to get even the tiny amount of information needed out there, I can't really blame any Space Wolf, Ork or GSC player for getting to the end of their patience with playing such a late recipient of a codex. And certainly would never think to tell anyone to leave the hobby if they're not happy.

That's also the last thing GW wants. Since Rountree took over they started talking about how to get lapsed customers back. Losing existing ones is not their goal. During the Kirby years they were happy to lose customers as long as the ones that stayed paid more and more for the same or worse product. That's not how GW is operating now.

As a long Time ork fan, when I started around the tail end of Rogue Trader, the orks we’re bursting with character and comedy and ideas. From 3rd ed on they lost the joy and creativity and became a mob of slugga boyz with a power klaw nob and not much else, but I kept at it as beautiful new kits came out.

But, the rules were never there for them - the Imperial Knight was a lord of war, while the Gorkanought could be popped by a five point Melta gun. My hordes kept having to get more and more hordey until my turns took forever. Kustom wagonz And buggies gave way to 100 ork green tides that I just pushed slowly like an avalanche. No klanz, no character; no Armageddon, just Blackreach.

So, I did what I do - I sold them all and started an army that still captures my imagination. But, Boss Oggthrok still lurks in my collection, in case the day comes when Orks are interesting narratively or in game terms again. Until then, there’s always kill team!

Oggthrok wrote:
As a long Time ork fan, when I started around the tail end of Rogue Trader, the orks we’re bursting with character and comedy and ideas. From 3rd ed on they lost the joy and creativity and became a mob of slugga boyz with a power klaw nob and not much else, but I kept at it as beautiful new kits came out.

But, the rules were never there for them - the Imperial Knight was a lord of war, while the Gorkanought could be popped by a five point Melta gun. My hordes kept having to get more and more hordey until my turns took forever. Kustom wagonz And buggies gave way to 100 ork green tides that I just pushed slowly like an avalanche. No klanz, no character; no Armageddon, just Blackreach.

So, I did what I do - I sold them all and started an army that still captures my imagination. But, Boss Oggthrok still lurks in my collection, in case the day comes when Orks are interesting narratively or in game terms again. Until then, there’s always kill team!

I never sold my orks, but otherwise i agree to 100%

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many believe that they don't value our player base in comparison to others.

As an outsider looking in, they seem to get the same kind of treatment as most other core non-marine factions - nids, necrons, DE, tau, daemons, guard, etc.
The six year wait between their last two (4e/7e) books was long but not exactly unusual. Eldar 4e-6e was 7 years, as were Tau, DE were 6, etc. Wasn't exactly a spectacular release but they got their giant models, plastics, campaign books, interim model releases for aeronautica, and so on.

But I suppose the other non-core factions had some period of time where they were on top while orks were coasting the whole way through. I just hope we don't get this same drama when GW drops back to 2-4 year release cycles.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many believe that they don't value our player base in comparison to others.

As an outsider looking in, they seem to get the same kind of treatment as most other core non-marine factions - nids, necrons, DE, tau, daemons, guard, etc.
The six year wait between their last two (4e/7e) books was long but not exactly unusual. Eldar 4e-6e was 7 years, as were Tau, DE were 6, etc. Wasn't exactly a spectacular release but they got their giant models, plastics, campaign books, interim model releases for aeronautica, and so on.

But I suppose the other non-core factions had some period of time where they were on top while orks were coasting the whole way through. I just hope we don't get this same drama when GW drops back to 2-4 year release cycles.

Yeah, I think this is fair. Orks have arguably had a bit of a rough ride more recently than some others, but the idea some people seem to be pushing, that GW are pursuing some sort of neglectful hate campaign against Orks and those who play them, is mental.

I agree. There's no intentional poor behaviour by GW towards ork players. They just let some things slip and didn't make sure they did the same thing for those waiting the longest for the codexes as they did for other armies. The delay caused by the big three summer releases was not some slight towards ork players, but just something they didn't compensate for with some extra articles or social media posts or something.

 Nazrak wrote:
but the idea some people seem to be pushing, that GW are pursuing some sort of neglectful hate campaign against Orks and those who play them, is mental.

absolutely, orks have a poor hand at the moment, but thats not scared me away form things in the past. It's the autistic screeching from a VERY vocal minority of players making up a very large majority of all conversation thats got me retreating. The absolute worst thing thats happened to orks in the last 20 years, are the faultfinders changing the oppinion or ork players from Fun loving and pleasant to Grating and spiteful.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many believe that they don't value our player base in comparison to others.

As an outsider looking in, they seem to get the same kind of treatment as most other core non-marine factions - nids, necrons, DE, tau, daemons, guard, etc.
The six year wait between their last two (4e/7e) books was long but not exactly unusual. Eldar 4e-6e was 7 years, as were Tau, DE were 6, etc. Wasn't exactly a spectacular release but they got their giant models, plastics, campaign books, interim model releases for aeronautica, and so on.

But I suppose the other non-core factions had some period of time where they were on top while orks were coasting the whole way through. I just hope we don't get this same drama when GW drops back to 2-4 year release cycles.

Yea I completely agree. I don't subscribe to the 'GW hates Orks/Ork players'. I don't think anyone does, even the most salty Ork fan (someone ask Semper ).

I think the general consensus is that GW doesn't know what to do with Orks so tends to make mistakes with them. Or that our lack of a 'champion' in the development team hurts us.

My personal opinion stems back to GW acting like any business. They must have believed that to release the ork and space wolf codexes earlier would reduce possible AOS 2.0, KillTeam and Adeptus Titanicus revenue. So they took a calculated risk and held back. I believe they thought the negative impact of making SW and Ork players wait would be offset by revenue from those games previously mentioned. Perhaps they were correct, I don't have their sales figures so I can't answer that one. I do know that I have ceased all spending since the Ork codex was announced. I know others have done the same. I know there is a lot of negative publicity with all of the specialist games at the moment because players of those factions without codexes are quick to complain. I know some Ork and Space Wolf players have left the game, some temporarily, some not.

E

 Nazrak wrote:
but the idea some people seem to be pushing, that GW are pursuing some sort of neglectful hate campaign against Orks and those who play them, is mental.

Who's pushing this? Where has anyone said it? It seems to have only come from you so far in this thread?

E 2

 davou wrote:

absolutely, orks have a poor hand at the moment, but thats not scared me away form things in the past. It's the autistic screeching from a VERY vocal minority of players making up a very large majority of all conversation thats got me retreating. The absolute worst thing thats happened to orks in the last 20 years, are the faultfinders changing the oppinion or ork players from Fun loving and pleasant to Grating and spiteful.

Again, where are you getting this autistic screeching from? Get some quotes and show us all these Ork players who act as you claim?

 Jidmah wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
...and while Orks weren't doing well, it's not maliciousness that an army sucks, it's a misguided attempt to do what they think will be fun only to have it bite them in the ass when it turns out the community doesn't play the army that way.

I disagree, 7th edition ork codex and supplement were clearly not a failed attempt at making orks fun.

Every single model that has been somewhat decent in the old codex got a major nerf (lootaz, kanz, battelwagons, shoota boyz, etc...), many rules were clearly never used once in a playtest(Rolling 63 shots for flash gits one at a time, mandatory deep striking for 46-91 models, Thrakka rolling three additional warlord traits from a table which had only two that had any effect on him, etc, etc...) and supplement rules which were all downside, with every single formation inside forcing you to buy more models than you could reasonably field in 5th/6th.

So I'd say its somewhere between the malice of trying to force us into buying new models and not giving a grot's ass about the quality of what they were delivering.

That said, I agree with all your other points, there is no reason for so many ork players to act the way they do. The codex will come around.

I feel like you're forgetting to employ Hanlon's Razor on the actions of the studio: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Save for Kirby (who was on his way out during 7th) GW doesn't have a history of outright malice with it's customers. Bad design choices made through a lens of a rather unique testing environment and the tenancy to smooth out balance issues with the subtly of a thunder hammer to the codex lead to some poor choices in the past, but I highly doubt it was anywhere as close to the malicious sales grabbing approach you claim.

Orks actually are solid, but it's logistically difficult to play a 6 turn game with Green Tide. If you can't get 6 turns in, you absolutely have to go undefeated to place well, because your scores will be too low. This is in part why people aren't playing Orks. Also they are hard-countered by imperial guard and eldar. Go to any tournament in a competitive area and you will face one or both of those armies.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So it's basically people getting self-hyped and then getting mad because GW is doing exactly what they should be doing and not pandering to them specially?

I mean, I'm not trying to be cruel here, I know the folly of getting on the hype train more times than I should have in the past, but I don't really see how any of this is GW's fault. "You guys are next" isn't a free pass to get leaks or news early, it's a notification that you're in the chute for the next codex releases and not much more. All this salt about not being told something you're not even supposed to be told about yet just reeks of self-entitlement to be honest.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Which invalidates every post crying about how we don't have info about where the Orks are. Of course we don't have info, they're not coming yet!

Have you joined this thread just to troll Zion? Because that's how it's coming across. Orks and Space Wolves were announced over 75 days ago as the next 2 codexes. Other codex announcements have followed with previews 1-2 weeks later. Do you see the difference there? We've had nothing for over 2 months. No model previews. No rule previews. Nothing.

Trolling? No. Being a bit harsh on some self entitled internet whiners? Definitely. Space Wolves weren't crying about how they hadn't seen anything for their army in the same time and you don't see Sisters players posting daily about how we haven't gotten any new updates about the Sisters update since then either. Only the Orks are crying about how badly GW is treating them and acting like they're owed information that breaks GW's information release cycle.

Seriously, you aren't owed an update until it's time to for you to get your money ready to order the codex. Anything else is just an attitude that makes the entire community look bad and it rightly irks me, and others.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'll also remind you that GW have set themselves up for a fall here, no one else. They claimed they'd get "all codexes in our hands within a year of 8th dropping". They've broken this promise. They also built expectations with their general method of announcing codexes and then previewing after as I mentioned previously. Something else that they have radically changed only for these 2 releases.

Please cite sources for that quote because I'm not remembering it. And if it was true that promise was broken when they said Sisters were coming in 2019. We still need Sisters of Silence and the Inquisition as well with no word that they're even getting actual codexes and you're justifying about being confirmed to be getting updated this year? Have some perspective for feth's sake.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
You've also had some context from Semper (years of awful rules, no updates and general neglect), that you flat out ignored because apparently "Sisters have had it worse". Right. SISTERS ARE ALSO GETTING A COMPLETELY REVAMPED MODEL LINE. I think you'd find there would be less Orkish complaints if we had a similar promise.

"Emperor Willing" in 2019 and my entire army is older than most of the Ork line. Heck if the models aren't old enough to drink, they're at least old enough to smoke and vote. I think they need a massive overhaul more than the mostly plastic Ork line. You don't need such a promise because you don't need your all metal army to be turned into a plastic one for the first time in two decades.

And you were promised a codex but want more than anyone else is getting right now: information weeks and months ahead of your actual codex release. If that isn't being self-entitled I don't know what is.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'd fething love to see your reaction if the same thing had happened with Thousand Sons. I would love to hear the amount of whining that would flow from that part of the community.

You mean the army that used to be a single all metal unit and didn't have a way to really be run in a truly fluffy manner until they got their army list in 7th? Gee it's like you have some kind of salt about neglected armies and units being made of metal being updated into plastic.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Stop trolling this thread, if you have nothing constructive to add and just want to insult Ork players, you don't belong here.

I came here trying to seriously understand where the whining is coming from and frankly it comes right out of the backend of a grot as far as I've seen. If anything doesn't belong it's the attitude that Ork players are "owed" information long before their release. You can claim I'm trolling but I am being quite honest and direct with every post I've made. Read this thread again, I didn't start to point out the fallacy the Ork players are using as a crutch in their chief complaint about "no information" until I confirmed that it was exactly what it was: a bunch of Squig crap being paraded around as the moral high ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You must have missed all those new GSC model previews??

Which has clearly been stated to be unrelated to a codex release. It's tied into the Fang and Claw box instead.

I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

Because it wasn't an announcement for Orks, therefore it's bad. That's the "logic" I've seeing at least.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Trolling? No. Being a bit harsh on some self entitled internet whiners? Definitely. Space Wolves weren't crying about how they hadn't seen anything for their army in the same time and you don't see Sisters players posting daily about how we haven't gotten any new updates about the Sisters update since then either. Only the Orks are crying about how badly GW is treating them and acting like they're owed information that breaks GW's information release cycle.

Seriously, you aren't owed an update until it's time to for you to get your money ready to order the codex. Anything else is just an attitude that makes the entire community look bad and it rightly irks me, and others.

SW players aren't upset about the latest announcement and the delay with their codex?! Loooool. Sister's players aren't posting daily?! They've only been doing it ever since the Facebook Community site went up and they only stopped once GW relented and said they'd get an entire new range. Your fallacies are glaring an obvious. Have you actually looked at the Facebook page? It's starting to sound like you haven't.

GW have broken their own information release cycle you muppet. These 2 codexes have differed from every other codex announcement in terms of information quantity and frequency compared to all others in 8th to date. Maybe you should stop calling anyone who is unhappy a "self entitled internet whiner"? It's insulting. People are justified in their disappointment and you insulting them for their disappointment isn't going to help the situation.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Please cite sources for that quote because I'm not remembering it. And if it was true that promise was broken when they said Sisters were coming in 2019. We still need Sisters of Silence and the Inquisition as well with no word that they're even getting actual codexes and you're justifying about being confirmed to be getting updated this year? Have some perspective for feth's sake.

I can't find the quote and I have looked. Many others remember it though. There are countless posts on here and B&C referencing it. Inquisition and Sisters of Silence aren't codexes. They never have been and they never should be. Nor should Thousand Sons either.

Interesting how you ignored the whole part about "GW making a problem of their own design". Care to comment on that? Care to explain why people are wrong to be upset when GW suddenly decide to change their marketing strategy with no warning? 3 months isn't soon given the context of all other codex releases. GW should have known that going silent for so long would have negative consequences. They are falling on their own sword.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
"Emperor Willing" in 2019 and my entire army is older than most of the Ork line. Heck if the models aren't old enough to drink, they're at least old enough to smoke and vote. I think they need a massive overhaul more than the mostly plastic Ork line. You don't need such a promise because you don't need your all metal army to be turned into a plastic one for the first time in two decades.

And you were promised a codex but want more than anyone else is getting right now: information weeks and months ahead of your actual codex release. If that isn't being self-entitled I don't know what is.

Haven't GSC had new model previews before their codex is announced? Doesn't that break your statement in bold above? I guess all those GSC players are self entitled.

Haven't SOB had new model previews before their codex is announced? Haven't they been given rough dates to give ideas of when things will be happening? I guess all those SOB players are also self entitled.

I don't think you understand what "self entitled" means. I didn't need to be promised a codex. It's obvious it's coming, it has been since before 8th. We're talking about Orks for feths sake, a major 40k race that has existed since rogue trader. Where did I ask for information weeks and months ahead of the codex release? Where did anyone? Let me explain it in simple terms that you should be able to understand; GW have acted in a certain way. Try to keep up. Because of their (GW's) own actions people believe that a release of a codex (or 2) is imminent. The codex is not released quickly. There is no news as to why the codex isn't releasing quickly and people become frustrated. Whenever anyone asks why GW are acting differently for these 2 codexes they get a "your codex is coming soon" response. GW teases models for another faction, that has no codex and is not on the next 2 to be released. Every fan of the 2 codexes that were promised "soon" is baffled at this, wondering why GW is promoting new models for a codex that isn't even due. Specialist games are released one by one and still no news of those 2 codexes that were announced as "soon" 1 month, then 2 months ago. Fans of the 2 codexes are again baffled and confused that this marketing strategy employed by GW. It strikes them as very similar to "old GW", giving either false information or no information. Fans of the 2 codex factions slowly become bored of waiting and take a break from the hobby or start expressing their feelings on social media. Can you see why this might happen? Does it make sense when I break it down that way?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You mean the army that used to be a single all metal unit and didn't have a way to really be run in a truly fluffy manner until they got their army list in 7th? Gee it's like you have some kind of salt about neglected armies and units being made of metal being updated into plastic.

More salt about a niche army getting a full release that they never deserved or needed really.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I came here trying to seriously understand where the whining is coming from and frankly it comes right out of the backend of a grot as far as I've seen. If anything doesn't belong it's the attitude that Ork players are "owed" information long before their release. You can claim I'm trolling but I am being quite honest and direct with every post I've made. Read this thread again, I didn't start to point out the fallacy the Ork players are using as a crutch in their chief complaint about "no information" until I confirmed that it was exactly what it was: a bunch of Squig crap being paraded around as the moral high ground.

I refer you to the post above referencing SOB and GSC model previews. I also refer you to the actions of GW in the same post as a way of possibly helping you understand the sentiments of the Ork/SW community (and it is most definitely both).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Which has clearly been stated to be unrelated to a codex release. It's tied into the Fang and Claw box instead.

Point? You don't think Ork players would wet their pants and start waving their choppas around if we had even the slightest hint of new models and a box set?! It doesn't matter if it's related to their own codex or not. It's new models. What almost every hobbyist wants for their faction.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

It's not and literally no one said anything like that? Have you actually read the thread?

I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

I know I am selling my entire Ork collection if this codex is garbage so I'll be doing my part.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

I'm predicting endless stupid arguments based off of minor misunderstandings after the codex drops.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

Depends on how you define nobody.
I'll be playing Orks till they take my dice and tape measure away.
The other armies suck.

FLG said it will be OP.

 Primark G wrote:
I am predicting basically no one will play orks after the codex drops TBH.

Good thing your opinions are worth nothing! Crisis averted.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do not understand how GSC getting an announcement is bad for Orks. That's ridiculous.

Tooth and Claw releasing in late August must mean GW doesn’t know how to design Orks.

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

I predict the post-codex meta will be Grots riding in Stompas.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

Gretchin are good in amazingly large numbers.

 Primark G wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
FLG said it will be OP.

They also said gretchin and stompas were good.

Gretchin are good in amazingly large numbers.

Don't you mean "Surprisingly dangerous in large numbers?"

How are the Negatrons after that leak over in N&R? Nuff teazinz for ya? Buggies look GREAT!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
How are the Negatrons after that leak over in N&R? Nuff teazinz for ya? Buggies look GREAT!

Sorry to down like a dakka-downer but something about that box art doesn't look very GW to me. Everything about that screams "knock-off." I know it ties into the whole "the orks just zogged off and started racing each other" lore but I'm going to stop myself from getting hyped until we get something a bit more concrete.

At the same time I've realized that being mad or petulant isn't going to solve anything, so instead I'm just gonna be happy for GSC and SW because they've been waiting just as long as we have with no news. Honestly I don't get why I was so upset about it in the first place.

This is long and I'm just off work so I'm going to post replies in yellow instead of mucking with tags for the next hour to reply to this.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Trolling? No. Being a bit harsh on some self entitled internet whiners? Definitely. Space Wolves weren't crying about how they hadn't seen anything for their army in the same time and you don't see Sisters players posting daily about how we haven't gotten any new updates about the Sisters update since then either. Only the Orks are crying about how badly GW is treating them and acting like they're owed information that breaks GW's information release cycle.

Seriously, you aren't owed an update until it's time to for you to get your money ready to order the codex. Anything else is just an attitude that makes the entire community look bad and it rightly irks me, and others.

SW players aren't upset about the latest announcement and the delay with their codex?! Loooool. Sister's players aren't posting daily?! They've only been doing it ever since the Facebook Community site went up and they only stopped once GW relented and said they'd get an entire new range. Your fallacies are glaring an obvious. Have you actually looked at the Facebook page? It's starting to sound like you haven't.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the massive salt mines and constant griping cropping up and dog piling every thread that even mentions Space Wolves like the Ork players are doing.

And your arguement is self-defeating here: Sisters had no updates but a slowly shrinking army due to models being removed in every codex (that never saw proper release like other codexes), once we got news it was coming we stopped. Once Orks got told they were getting a codex they started instead.

GW have broken their own information release cycle you muppet. These 2 codexes have differed from every other codex announcement in terms of information quantity and frequency compared to all others in 8th to date. Maybe you should stop calling anyone who is unhappy a "self entitled internet whiner"? It's insulting. People are justified in their disappointment and you insulting them for their disappointment isn't going to help the situation.

Broke by whose definition? Your's or GW's? Because GW never gave a timeline for "soon" and considering that we see special releases every summer why is it a shock that special releases would take priority over codex releases? Just because you made an assumption doesn't make your assumption correct or the originator of the statement you made assumptions about wrong.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Please cite sources for that quote because I'm not remembering it. And if it was true that promise was broken when they said Sisters were coming in 2019. We still need Sisters of Silence and the Inquisition as well with no word that they're even getting actual codexes and you're justifying about being confirmed to be getting updated this year? Have some perspective for feth's sake.

I can't find the quote and I have looked. Many others remember it though. There are countless posts on here and B&C referencing it. Inquisition and Sisters of Silence aren't codexes. They never have been and they never should be. Nor should Thousand Sons either.
Inquisition could definitely be a codex. It'd likely be on the smaller side and work by only using non-standard FOCs attached to other armies, but it should be given a proper update. Sisters of Silence should have been part of the Custodes update to give us a Talons of the Emperor in 40k. Since we didn't get that then we should see an update to them to flesh them out to a valid army to at least ally to Custodes.

No army should be told "you don't get rules" once it's been introduced to the game.

Interesting how you ignored the whole part about "GW making a problem of their own design". Care to comment on that? Care to explain why people are wrong to be upset when GW suddenly decide to change their marketing strategy with no warning? 3 months isn't soon given the context of all other codex releases. GW should have known that going silent for so long would have negative consequences. They are falling on their own sword.
The problem is the number of assumptions that were made while ignoring how GW has done special releases for the past few summers and summing that coming soon was a matter of the total release cycle and not in terms of which codexes are next. They fell on nothing, but rather have to deal with a bunch of grots running around and clambering about how GW is maliciously screwing their codex over on purpeose and trying to get them top burn their army to start another one.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
"Emperor Willing" in 2019 and my entire army is older than most of the Ork line. Heck if the models aren't old enough to drink, they're at least old enough to smoke and vote. I think they need a massive overhaul more than the mostly plastic Ork line. You don't need such a promise because you don't need your all metal army to be turned into a plastic one for the first time in two decades.

And you were promised a codex but want more than anyone else is getting right now: information weeks and months ahead of your actual codex release. If that isn't being self-entitled I don't know what is.

Haven't GSC had new model previews before their codex is announced? Doesn't that break your statement in bold above? I guess all those GSC players are self entitled.
So two points about GSC: 1. They were accidentally revealed at Warhammer World first, 2. They gave us context about that accident by saying those models were not indicitive of a codex release. Doesn't break anything when a slip up is the only reason we heard about them early.

Haven't SOB had new model previews before their codex is announced? Haven't they been given rough dates to give ideas of when things will be happening? I guess all those SOB players are also self entitled.
Preview. Not "previews" at this point. And this is separate from other codexes due to being specifically told it would be coming to make sure we actually know they were coming and responding to a massive and overwhelming response on the customer survey they did. Maybe if Orks pulled the same numbers the army to get special treatment specifically lavished on them (and then almost as quickly stopped after a single update) you'd get the same thing. And "2019" is about as precise as getting an update in 2018 of "soon".

Basically, you're grasping at squig hairs here to try and claim a moral high ground for something you weren't even promised (unlike Sisters who were explicitly promised special treatment that...has been less exciting as the original promise).

I don't think you understand what "self entitled" means. I didn't need to be promised a codex. It's obvious it's coming, it has been since before 8th. We're talking about Orks for feths sake, a major 40k race that has existed since rogue trader. Where did I ask for information weeks and months ahead of the codex release? Where did anyone? Let me explain it in simple terms that you should be able to understand; GW have acted in a certain way. Try to keep up. Because of their (GW's) own actions people believe that a release of a codex (or 2) is imminent. The codex is not released quickly. There is no news as to why the codex isn't releasing quickly and people become frustrated. Whenever anyone asks why GW are acting differently for these 2 codexes they get a "your codex is coming soon" response. GW teases models for another faction, that has no codex and is not on the next 2 to be released. Every fan of the 2 codexes that were promised "soon" is baffled at this, wondering why GW is promoting new models for a codex that isn't even due. Specialist games are released one by one and still no news of those 2 codexes that were announced as "soon" 1 month, then 2 months ago. Fans of the 2 codexes are again baffled and confused that this marketing strategy employed by GW. It strikes them as very similar to "old GW", giving either false information or no information. Fans of the 2 codex factions slowly become bored of waiting and take a break from the hobby or start expressing their feelings on social media. Can you see why this might happen? Does it make sense when I break it down that way?
So what I'm taking from this very long paragraph is that the community hyped itself up while ignoring the summer release schedule that we've been seeing for a couple years now and assuming that "soon" meant the entirety of GW's product line and not in direct relation to 40k's releases.

I mean, sure, it's nice getting news, but if you wind yourself up and then get mad that your self-inflated expectations aren't met it's not the fault of the company that your expectations where met based on promises you didn't actually have.

I get being disappointed, I really do. I mean I play Sisters, that means I basically drink disappointment in my morning coffee. But at the end of the day, hopping on the hype train too early isn't something to blame GW for. Maybe it's years of disappointment but honestly until the teasers or leaked pictures come out don't bother getting on that train because it's too soon.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You mean the army that used to be a single all metal unit and didn't have a way to really be run in a truly fluffy manner until they got their army list in 7th? Gee it's like you have some kind of salt about neglected armies and units being made of metal being updated into plastic.

More salt about a niche army getting a full release that they never deserved or needed really.
Your personal bias is showing very hard here. Just because it's not something you want it doesn't make it valid to have on the table. Especially since these "niche" armies (save for a few) had rules in RT and 2nd edition and deserved to come back.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I came here trying to seriously understand where the whining is coming from and frankly it comes right out of the backend of a grot as far as I've seen. If anything doesn't belong it's the attitude that Ork players are "owed" information long before their release. You can claim I'm trolling but I am being quite honest and direct with every post I've made. Read this thread again, I didn't start to point out the fallacy the Ork players are using as a crutch in their chief complaint about "no information" until I confirmed that it was exactly what it was: a bunch of Squig crap being paraded around as the moral high ground.

I refer you to the post above referencing SOB and GSC model previews. I also refer you to the actions of GW in the same post as a way of possibly helping you understand the sentiments of the Ork/SW community (and it is most definitely both).
Sisters got a specific promise to see updates, and GSC were leaked by GW themselves by accident leading to them owning up to the models coming. Not the same thing as what I've seen clambering about (like the claim that GW should have been running a drip fed hype train every week or so since the codexes were announced instead of a shorter time that wouldn't burn us all out on info by now).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Which has clearly been stated to be unrelated to a codex release. It's tied into the Fang and Claw box instead.

Point? You don't think Ork players would wet their pants and start waving their choppas around if we had even the slightest hint of new models and a box set?! It doesn't matter if it's related to their own codex or not. It's new models. What almost every hobbyist wants for their faction.
You say that, but then also claim some armies should get nothing and shouldn't exist. You can't claim "everyone" wants to see new stuff while complaining that some things shouldn't exist (which is the same as telling anyone who does want those things that they shouldn't have them and shouldn't get more).

tl;dr: Sisters don't count due to actually being promised updates (Orks weren't), GSC were only announced due to GW goofing and accidently putting models out early and basically don't get on the hype train until you see pictures because you'll live a happier life.

at this point there is little new post wise on this thread.

some say ork players are rightfully disappointed

others say ork players are entitled whiners

and on between both these types of commenters is exactly why the ork community is "quieting down". i wont pretend im not apart of it, i help fuel some of this.

but when there is very few "tactics" to discuss besides waves of boyz, then all that leaves are those who post their conversions and paint jobs since they follow the hobby part of the community instead of the gaming. if you not that into going onto those sights or threads then all that is left are rumor and speculations threads and they are filled with many claiming others are trolls. its difficult to stay in there.

this can all disappear when the codex finally comes out, or it just might die down a little, because there will always be those who are disappointed and those who think they are above the "whiners".

geargutz wrote:
some say ork players are rightfully disappointed

others say ork players are entitled whiners

All we know is... he’s called the Squig. </Clarkson>

I guess I don't see the real issue. In this game, some codex was going to be last. It was always going to happen. I don't see much merit in whining over it. It'll be out when it's out. Your model line is fine with few exceptions, and it looks like you're getting some new models as well.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
tl;dr: Sisters don't count due to actually being promised updates (Orks weren't), GSC were only announced due to GW goofing and accidently putting models out early and basically don't get on the hype train until you see pictures because you'll live a happier life.

Ah so Sisters 'don't count' because.....reasons. GSC were an 'accident' so they don't count. "I hate it when I accidentally display new models instead of the current line, what a common mistake to make" said GW, never. Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose, don't be so naive. Then finally, don't assume a company is going to do the exact same thing it has done with every other release to date and then express an opinion when you're one of 2 factions treated differently.

Great feedback.

FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game. So it looks like they don't agree with your sentiment that its the consumers fault for assuming continuity and consistency with releases and marketing strategy.

Stop drinking the koolaid and attacking customers. Sometimes a company fcks up. Here is an example of that.

I started collecting Orks after SW:A last year. I now have about 2700pts of Orks, most of which I have painted. That is probably about 500€+ worth of minis. I have played maybe 2-3 games with them, most of it was pretty pathetic. Sooo you might say I have high hopes that I can actually get some good games out of my collection with a new codex.

With that said, you could say I'm entitled to be disappointed. However I'm not whining about GW's release schedule on the interwebs, because the older you get the more you realize whining never ever changes anything. Patience is key.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game.

Gorkamorka? (well, speed freaks, but same kind of thing)

I remember there being rumours months back that the late ork release were tied to that. Honestly a little surprised to see them pan out, a quick bit of googling indicates... wolves August, speedfreaks Sept, and orks Nov/Dec alongside an slaanesh release of all things.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game.

Gorkamorka? (well, speed freaks, but same kind of thing)

I remember there being rumours months back that the late ork release were tied to that. Honestly a little surprised to see them pan out, a quick bit of googling indicates... wolves August, speedfreaks Sept, and orks Nov/Dec alongside an slaanesh release of all things.

I suspect it'll be Orks in early september with GSCs. the "orks in november" seems unlikely.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game.

Gorkamorka? (well, speed freaks, but same kind of thing)

I remember there being rumours months back that the late ork release were tied to that. Honestly a little surprised to see them pan out, a quick bit of googling indicates... wolves August, speedfreaks Sept, and orks Nov/Dec alongside an slaanesh release of all things.

GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives? That comes from "leak" that had release schedule that was proven wrong months ago already. According to that leak knights were up on august.

tneva82 wrote:
GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives?

Until it does/doesn't happen I guess. I was just quoting the post where I had seen the gorkamorka rumours.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

I haven't seen it. You're complaining about a problem that only exists in your own mind.

Nobody complains that GSC is getting stuff. People complained that GW announced GSC stuff when people (rightfully) expected orky stuff to be announced. Now that we got Speed Freeks leaked out, tension is going to go down.

As for actual topic, ork community is not dropping, rather it is lurking. However if GW drops the ball with ork codex, it will demolish ork fanbase. Not whining or doomsaying, but rather stating a fact - a lot of people on reddit, tg, dakka, have said that if GW mistreats orks yet another time, they will just leave the hobby or stich army.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

I haven't seen it. You're complaining about a problem that only exists in your own mind.

at this point its the straw man they pull out to make many ork players look bad. when they should be pulling out a looted scar crow with mega rotor deffgun and a nice crab power claw to make orks look awesome.

geargutz wrote:
at this point its the straw man they pull out to make many ork players look bad. when they should be pulling out a looted scar crow with mega rotor deffgun and a nice crab power claw to make orks look awesome.

This is the impression I'm getting too. Also I'd loot dat scarecrow.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

geargutz wrote:
at this point its the straw man they pull out to make many ork players look bad. when they should be pulling out a looted scar crow with mega rotor deffgun and a nice crab power claw to make orks look awesome.

This is the impression I'm getting too. Also I'd loot dat scarecrow.

yuh want it?! see me in da foit pit, we will slog it out for da dakka straw git!

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

Try the GW facebook page. The user posts tend to get deleted but the comments in the announcement posts don't.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

Try the GW facebook page. The user posts tend to get deleted but the comments in the announcement posts don't.

I'm on the facebook posts pretty regularly. The worst thing I see is a guy counting the days from codex announcement to release and to be honest even that is pretty lighthearted. I'm not seeing what you or they claim.

A.T. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives?

Until it does/doesn't happen I guess. I was just quoting the post where I had seen the gorkamorka rumours.

It basically is already bogus. Wolves preorder next week. GW puts out codexes they have announced as next close to each other. Thus september middle is where we can expect ork codex for preorder

tneva82 wrote:

A.T. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives?

Until it does/doesn't happen I guess. I was just quoting the post where I had seen the gorkamorka rumours.

It basically is already bogus. Wolves preorder next week. GW puts out codexes they have announced as next close to each other. Thus september middle is where we can expect ork codex for preorder

I suppose it's possiable GW could spend the next month and a half after that focusing on AOS and not giving Orks anything but I agree, early to mid sept seems more likely.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

A.T. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
GAAAH! How long that "orks in november" bogus idea survives?

Until it does/doesn't happen I guess. I was just quoting the post where I had seen the gorkamorka rumours.

It basically is already bogus. Wolves preorder next week. GW puts out codexes they have announced as next close to each other. Thus september middle is where we can expect ork codex for preorder

I suppose it's possiable GW could spend the next month and a half after that focusing on AOS and not giving Orks anything but I agree, early to mid sept seems more likely.

Like "GW releases knights in august after AOS2" that many claimed before knight codex was released?-)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not seeing what you or they claim.

I have made no claims in this thread.
"They" should be addressed directly.
Your mileage may vary on what counts as "bitching, whining, and moaning", though if the worst you've seen is the guy posting in _every single thread_ about orks you have both not been looking very hard and have a fairly forgiving view of what constitutes whining.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not seeing what you or they claim.

I have made no claims in this thread.
"They" should be addressed directly.
Your mileage may vary on what counts as "bitching, whining, and moaning", though if the worst you've seen is the guy posting in _every single thread_ about orks you have both not been looking very hard and have a fairly forgiving view of what constitutes whining.

So it sounds like you are making claims when you say things like the bold text above.

So, basically, you can't provide any proof? It's not my job to go and find something that I don't believe exists. From what I've seen, the posting has been no different from Space Wolves, Space Marine players generally, Dark Eldar players and any other segment of the hobby. If you believe otherwise, please show your evidence to the contrary. If you don't have any evidence, I suggest your claims are false.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
So it sounds like you are making claims when you say things like the bold text above.

Sounds like you are debating in bad faith.

I'm out.

A.T. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
So it sounds like you are making claims when you say things like the bold text above.

Sounds like you are debating in bad faith.

I'm out.

I think "debating in bad faith" is claiming something that you're unable to provide evidence for when asked.

I asked for evidence of something and you pointed me towards a facebook page that you claimed would be evidence. I have looked and can't find anything that constitutes the claims I've seen in here. Then you leave the discussion when I ask for actual evidence rather than nothing.....alrighty then.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

geargutz wrote:
some say ork players are rightfully disappointed

others say ork players are entitled whiners

All we know is... he’s called the Squig. </Clarkson>

Absolute best comment of the day!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh on a sad note (possibly) I was reading an Ork Facebook groups post on the "Leak" someone mentioned that it was an older box game they showed at an event years ago and never made into anything. I haven't had a chance to look or research but that doesn't sound to far off, something about the box design seems odd compared to other 8th edition stuff. If anyone finds out some info please let us know.

Short of the Codex rendering Orks *literally* unplayable (which won’t happen) – as opposed to the hyperbolic “unplayable” that gets tossed about on the internet willy-nilly – I’ll certainly carry on playing them once it drops. As I’m sure plenty of other people will. But hey, let’s not let that get in the way of chucking around dramatic, sweeping statements for attention, eh?

 Nazrak wrote:
Short of the Codex rendering Orks *literally* unplayable (which won’t happen) – as opposed to the hyperbolic “unplayable” that gets tossed about on the internet willy-nilly – I’ll certainly carry on playing them once it drops. As I’m sure plenty of other people will. But hey, let’s not let that get in the way of chucking around dramatic, sweeping statements for attention, eh?

hold the bloody phone, resurgence of orks spilling out of every bunker, pit, and "the drops" coming soon, we got a bloody leak and its not even form GW. the ork community is saved!

https://grotorderly.blogspot.com/2018/08/speed-freeks-zdjecia-wyprasek-i-planszy.html

im more then happy right now, im over da mooon riding a nicked stormboy roket!!! :

geargutz wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Short of the Codex rendering Orks *literally* unplayable (which won’t happen) – as opposed to the hyperbolic “unplayable” that gets tossed about on the internet willy-nilly – I’ll certainly carry on playing them once it drops. As I’m sure plenty of other people will. But hey, let’s not let that get in the way of chucking around dramatic, sweeping statements for attention, eh?

hold the bloody phone, resurgence of orks spilling out of every bunker, pit, and "the drops" coming soon, we got a bloody leak and its not even form GW. the ork community is saved!

https://grotorderly.blogspot.com/2018/08/speed-freeks-zdjecia-wyprasek-i-planszy.html

im more then happy right now, im over da mooon riding a nicked stormboy roket!!! :

And all it took was a little leak.... it's a shame GW didn't take the initiative with this.

SemperMortis wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

geargutz wrote:
some say ork players are rightfully disappointed

others say ork players are entitled whiners

All we know is... he’s called the Squig. </Clarkson>

Absolute best comment of the day!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh on a sad note (possibly) I was reading an Ork Facebook groups post on the "Leak" someone mentioned that it was an older box game they showed at an event years ago and never made into anything. I haven't had a chance to look or research but that doesn't sound to far off, something about the box design seems odd compared to other 8th edition stuff. If anyone finds out some info please let us know.

Well we've seen content pictures from the box that IMHO proves it's current. the beast arises sample chapter looks like it uses the cover art of the Beast Arises omnibus part 1. which is as far as I know, new art, also the interio sprues are coloured plastic, yellow and red (two classic Ork clan colours) the coloured plastic thing is new, only 2 or 3 years old tops. with it being first seen in 40k, with the Know no Fear box. This IMHO is damn near proof this is current upcoming product.

That said the Beast rises sample chapter is something that might be a bit dischouraging to Ork lovers...
It releases in October, Speed Freaks might not release until then. Or they might, after all, a month preview isnt that far and maybe some poor sucker'll buy the books independantly

 Overread wrote:
GW likely has rules or at least guidelines on the quality of paintwork and army that they want to promote. Ergo all current models, good quality painting etc... when they attend an event.

It's not just playing a game for them when they turn up to a major tournament; its marketing. Staff who had poorer painted forces or older or converted models might not be allowed; plus it might be that no members of staff who collect orks wanted to or was able to go (and didn't want another person taking their army).

GW might not even have considered it and just gone for ther own in-house show-armies to use

Well, when half the Ork range is a decade old, of course they won't have studio quality stuff. They shot themselves in the foot, and have no one but themselves to blame. It would be sad times, but I am hopeful for the next Ork dex.

They're releasing The Beast Arises books in a series of Omnibus' starting I think in September. I've pre-ordered them all from Amazon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wrong with the dates, first one is 18th October according to Amazon.

i dont care at this moment when its going to come out (though of course the sooner the better).

this is what ive been asking for! a leak, a ray of skorching sunshine. ive haven't felt this hyped since the announcement of 8th edition. its been so long,

of course its unfortunately it didn't come form GW, but i could care less about that. this is bootiful

And all it took was a little leak.... it's a shame GW didn't take the initiative with this.

I would guess that this was supposed to be shown on Saturday on Warhammer Fest Europe, but some dude leaked it early.

geargutz wrote:
i dont care at this moment when its going to come out (though of course the sooner the better).

this is what ive been asking for! a leak, a ray of skorching sunshine. ive haven't felt this hyped since the announcement of 8th edition. its been so long,

of course its unfortunately it didn't come form GW, but i could care less about that. this is bootiful

Agreed on all accounts.

BrianDavion wrote:
That said the Beast rises sample chapter is something that might be a bit dischouraging to Ork lovers...
It releases in October, Speed Freaks might not release until then. Or they might, after all, a month preview isnt that far and maybe some poor sucker'll buy the books independantly

I don't think Ork players will care if it doesn't release until October or even later. This news is a blessing and is something to be celebrated.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

geargutz wrote:
i dont care at this moment when its going to come out (though of course the sooner the better).

this is what ive been asking for! a leak, a ray of skorching sunshine. ive haven't felt this hyped since the announcement of 8th edition. its been so long,

of course its unfortunately it didn't come form GW, but i could care less about that. this is bootiful

Agreed on all accounts.

BrianDavion wrote:
That said the Beast rises sample chapter is something that might be a bit dischouraging to Ork lovers...
It releases in October, Speed Freaks might not release until then. Or they might, after all, a month preview isnt that far and maybe some poor sucker'll buy the books independantly

I don't think Ork players will care if it doesn't release until October or even later. This news is a blessing and is something to be celebrated.

the might care if it means Codex Orks isn't until October as well which, admittingly is what I was thinking could be the case. but it seems unlikely once all the big summer releases are done we'll go a month+ between 'dexes

XuQishi wrote:

And all it took was a little leak.... it's a shame GW didn't take the initiative with this.

I would guess that this was supposed to be shown on Saturday on Warhammer Fest Europe, but some dude leaked it early.

Has GW habit of showcasing new products in Japanese though?

BrianDavion wrote:
the might care if it means Codex Orks isn't until October as well which, admittingly is what I was thinking could be the case. but it seems unlikely once all the big summer releases are done we'll go a month+ between 'dexes

True, some Ork players might. I wouldn't. I don't get the feeling many would either.

Has GW habit of showcasing new products in Japanese though?

Nah, I meant the game in general.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the might care if it means Codex Orks isn't until October as well which, admittingly is what I was thinking could be the case. but it seems unlikely once all the big summer releases are done we'll go a month+ between 'dexes

True, some Ork players might. I wouldn't. I don't get the feeling many would either.

I think the big question would be "whats in september?" in that case.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose,

yeah see, thing is space marine players didn't bitch whine and moan about "why aren't we getting info instead" nor did death guard players begrudge space marines their release.

Honestly this whole "ohh how dare GW release something for another army instead of mine" childishness is rediculas, yet you see it all the time, people just need to chill. this is no longer the days when you could go 2-3 editions without a codex. A year isn't that long to wait for something

I've asked for this before and it wasn't forthcoming then so I suspect it won't be now but please provide some evidence of all these Ork players 'bitching, whining and moaning about not getting info instead'. Please show me where an Ork player has said 'how dare GW release something for another army.instead of mine'?

I haven't seen it. You're complaining about a problem that only exists in your own mind.

I said exactly that when they announced custodes. I was pretty miffed that they'd been working on a new faction behind the scenes before they had adressed the gameplay of what already exists

Im not sure ork players are dropping off, we are just waiting. Look at the Speed Freek rumors in the Rumore section. That thread is as long or longer than the SW/GSC thread and thats for CONFRIMED MODELS AND CODEX (which also started 2 days earlier). Orks Tactics thread is by far the longest one despite being index only (though its mostly wishlisting now, though In terms of pure tactics disucssion its still probably top 2 in terms of length). We even have our own discussion thread.

Everyone is just waiting around, but we are still there the second anything new Ork related shows its head

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
tl;dr: Sisters don't count due to actually being promised updates (Orks weren't), GSC were only announced due to GW goofing and accidently putting models out early and basically don't get on the hype train until you see pictures because you'll live a happier life.

Ah so Sisters 'don't count' because.....reasons. GSC were an 'accident' so they don't count. "I hate it when I accidentally display new models instead of the current line, what a common mistake to make" said GW, never. Remember when GW accidentally displayed Magnus and Morty before release? Nor me. It was on purpose, don't be so naive. Then finally, don't assume a company is going to do the exact same thing it has done with every other release to date and then express an opinion when you're one of 2 factions treated differently.

Great feedback.

Sisters were specifically promised to be kept updated as they're developed, Orks weren't promised anything other than being "soon". Ergo they can't count as an example of GW just tossing out information early because they were given something Orks weren't: an actual promise of more information. If Space Wolves, Imperial Knights, Death Watch or any other codex that's come out this year had an actual update of information prior to the one week before the date of preorder you'd have an arguement because GW didn't make special exemption to any of those armies to drip feed them info early.

And some staffer fecked up and put the new GSC out too early at Warhammer World, hence the announcement and the later clarification that said new models weren't indicitive of a codex being released yet. But keep moving those goal posts to try and justify that GW secretly hates Orks and is punishing you for...reasons.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
FYI it looks like GW have taken steps to curb the Ork player's sentiments by releasing a pic of an Ork themed stand alone racing game. So it looks like they don't agree with your sentiment that its the consumers fault for assuming continuity and consistency with releases and marketing strategy.

Stop drinking the koolaid and attacking customers. Sometimes a company fcks up. Here is an example of that.

Squeaky wheels get greased (eventually)? Or someone leaked it without permission (wouldn't be the first time that's happened). Either way, learn from someone who is more experienced at being disappointed by jumping the hype train to early: don't.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Squeaky wheels get greased (eventually)? Or someone leaked it without permission (wouldn't be the first time that's happened). Either way, learn from someone who is more experienced at being disappointed by jumping the hype train to early: don't.

I'm so on the new Buggy hype train that I don't think I'm going to be able to function as a normal human being for a few days.

The train has no brakes.

Help.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

geargutz wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Short of the Codex rendering Orks *literally* unplayable (which won’t happen) – as opposed to the hyperbolic “unplayable” that gets tossed about on the internet willy-nilly – I’ll certainly carry on playing them once it drops. As I’m sure plenty of other people will. But hey, let’s not let that get in the way of chucking around dramatic, sweeping statements for attention, eh?

hold the bloody phone, resurgence of orks spilling out of every bunker, pit, and "the drops" coming soon, we got a bloody leak and its not even form GW. the ork community is saved!

https://grotorderly.blogspot.com/2018/08/speed-freeks-zdjecia-wyprasek-i-planszy.html

im more then happy right now, im over da mooon riding a nicked stormboy roket!!! :

And all it took was a little leak.... it's a shame GW didn't take the initiative with this.

Pushing information to early causes the hype to die off over time and is poor marketing, but sure, they should have been telling you about the codex in June and July.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Either way, learn from someone who is more experienced at being disappointed by jumping the hype train to early: don't.

Eh, let him ride the train. I'll take Overhyped Englishman over Constantly Negative Englishman any day.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Pushing information to early causes the hype to die off over time and is poor marketing, but sure, they should have been telling you about the codex in June and July.

A little article aside from the codex wouldn't have hurt.

The train.

No brakes.

 Jidmah wrote:
Eh, let him ride the train. I'll take Overhyped Englishman over Constantly Negative Englishman any day.

Overhyped Englishman is the BEST.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Squeaky wheels get greased (eventually)? Or someone leaked it without permission (wouldn't be the first time that's happened). Either way, learn from someone who is more experienced at being disappointed by jumping the hype train to early: don't.

I'm so on the new Buggy hype train that I don't think I'm going to be able to function as a normal human being for a few days.

The train has no brakes.

Help.

This is the advantage of having multiple armies: I can redirect that frantic energy into getting hobby stuff done.

Omg orkrober confirmed! In the buggy trailer!