Kill team tactica: Deathwatch!

Deathwatch is a really interesting faction in Kill Team. Like most elite teams, teams of Deathwatch hover between 5 and 6 members, and when discussing Deathwatch it's relevant to compare them to the likes of Grey Knights, Plague Marines, vanilla Primaris Marines and Rubric Marines.

Deathwatch has some unique advantages and disadvantages over both.

Pros:

Cost: only Plague Marines are cheaper (15pt specials vs DWs 16pt specials), this gives Deathwatch a high level of flexibility with 5-man teams and a decent level of flexibility with 6-man teams.

Customization: We beat out every "Marine+" army except for possibly Plague Marines with our level of customization for individual troopers. The almost totally rigid Rubrics and Primaris Marines don't even get the level of options we have on basic vets with their special troopers. The ability to get melta/plasma on basic troops as well as the high number of melee options cannot be understated. only TWO options are locked behind the "paywall" of making a trooper into a gunner, and while those two are well worth it, you'll never be forced to pick between having heavy guns or specials like melta/plasma.

Access to 3++ invuln saves: Only ones in the game baby! They come at the high price of both 3pts AND giving up a special boltgun, but the ability to have a 3++ save gives Leaders and Blackshields a much needed boost to durability while retaining pretty good damage output.

Solid Base Stats: LD8/LD9 leaders are a godsend in Kill Team with frequent leadership tests, 2A on basic dudes puts us on par with primaris and death guard fighters.

In-game flexibility: No ranged weapon in the deathwatch arsenal has fewer than 2 fire modes. Most have 3-4. That's huge when playing in a game mode where you only have 5-6 models, particularly when it comes to absolute stars like the Frag Cannon which can bring down an enemy heavy with its S9 AP-3 D2 mode and hose down swarms with its 2d6 shot mode.

Basic troopers get melee gear and can actually kill things: Ah, that wonderful combo of having A2 like the primaris marines AND good AP like grey knights. In kill team you will get swarmed by cheapo enemy models occasionally, and many games I've played so far have devolved into melee mosh pits between half your team and half the enemy team, and watching the Deathwatch slowly chop theirselves out of a mob of shoota boyz or chaos cultists is a wonderful sight to see.

Cons:

Durability: Besides the guys you give those storm shields, your troopers will feel mighty thin for their cost. Particularly in five-man configurations, your troopers will feel the same pain that the GK units do - cost like Rubrics, die like Tacticals.

Most guns have low damage: for all the fancy-shmanciness of the Stalker boltgun, special ammo, infernus boltgun and every guy having access to power weapons, the high levels of D1 in our weapon pool start to be a drag, especially when fighting disposable enemies. Our only high damage melee weapon is the HTH, which is sadly just like in 40k shackled to the 2A Veteran rather than being allowed on the 3A sergeant or blackshield. As always, you pay for flexibility with loss of speciality, so when facing up against those hyper durable rubrics or plagueboys who cost the same and die wayyyyy harder, or going up against a huge swarm of disposable mooks that make you feel like your boltguns just don't fire enough shots, you will feel the weight of all those options you paid points for and aren't using.

6-man Team Composition:

Technically speaking, you could run a 7-man team of deathwatch (6*14+16=100), but you'd have only bolters and you'd probably have a pretty bad time against most opponents. 99.9% of the time, the choice you'll be making is 5 man, or 6 man.

If you go for a 6-man team, you have 14 spare points to play with to create your team distributed amongst your 6 members.

General pointers

-I'd advise going for the "longer ranged and cheap" configuration for your leader rather than "built for melee and protected." My usual melee leader configuration clocks in at 21 with storm shield and power maul, but if you anticipate running a lot of 6 man teams, a second leader with a Stalker boltgun for 17pts (only using one of your spare 14) is probably better. Save the expensive goodies for your specialists!

-a black shield is probably not advisable in a 6-man team. It costs 2 of your points off the bat to bring him and you usually want to give him 2 power swords for 4 points so you can run him as a Zealot for 4 S5 Ap-3 attacks on the charge with the potential for 2 separate injury rolls. For close combat in a 6-man team, arming a vet with a power sword or maul and giving him a combat oriented specialism is usually more economical. Save your big spending for the gunners.

-Gunners are the spot I'd choose to splurge in a 6-man killteam. A frag cannon is an unholy terror when it's screened by a few spare bodies, though it costs 7 of your 14 points to put one on the table in a 6 man squad. The frag is an excellent candidate for the Comms specialism, because you can choose to either take that vital +1 to hit for yourself when shooting your Shell mode, or pass it off to a buddy when going in for the Frag autohit. I'm unimpressed with Demolitions on a frag cannon, save that specialism for a Shotgun veteran, where the various + to wound traits will really shine.

-Shotguns, stalker boltguns, and power mauls are all great economical ways to boost up individual kill team members.

Example of a sample 6-man team:

Watch Sergeant 16 Stalker Boltgun 1 (Leader)
Deathwatch Gunner 16 Frag Cannon 5 (Comms)
Deathwatch Veteran 14 Shotgun 1 (Demolitions)
Deathwatch Veteran 14 Power Sword 2 (Zealot)
Deathwatch Veteran 14 Power Maul 2
Deathwatch Veteran 14 Shotgun 1
Deathwatch Veteran 14

Most of the time, if you're running 6-man, you're looking to get more bodies on the table to avoid getting swarmed and overwhelmed (e.g. against Chaos Marines, Orks, GSC or Eldar). For that reason I've kept the list light on high-damage weaponry you'd be taking against other marines or other elite factions.

5-man team composition:

With 28 points to spare, here's where your marines start to get fancy. The big con of the 5-man squad in a campaign is that you're not going to be leveling your fireteam unless you leave a specialist out (this is where the frag cannon working reasonably well as a non-specialist can help you out). In campaigns, because of the increasing points costs of specialists, you'll most likely be running 5-man squads most of the time. General tips:

-Resist the temptation to go All Guns. Yes, you can run a bolter sarge and 4 frag cannons. no, that is probably not a good idea. Nearly all games will involve some melee, even if it's just enemies hurling disposable mooks like shield drones at you to try and reduce the shooting output of your team by 20%. My general advice is that 1-2 team members should be dedicated melee goons and 1-2 should have melee as an option (e.g. a ranged weapon and a power weapon).

-It's about this time when you'll start thinking about Primaris Marines, and about time when you'll look at the line that says "Bolt Pistol - 2pts" and "Heavy Bolt Pistol - 2pts" with increasing frustration. A basic intercessor is 19 points no matter how you slice it, and a reiver with a carbine is a hefty 20. 5 points over a vet for 6" of range, 1 point of AP and +1W, or 6 points over a vet for -1LD, +1A and +1W is not even remotely worth it. The one saving grace of Primaris in my opinion is the option to go for a Carbine/Combat Knife reiver sarge for 19pts. +2A, +1W, and a boltgun that still gets 2 shots outside of 12" is pretty decent, with the fear rule and shock grenades as a cherry on top. Also he a pretty good third Leader configuration in between the basic Stalker Boltgun for 17pts and the Storm Shield/Melee Weapon for 21pts. The reiver sarge, and to a lesser extent the basic pistol/knife reiver, are worth taking a look at as a Deathwatch player, but I'd never spring for an intercessor at their points cost. EDIT: As it turns out, Reivers have one huge saving grace, and it's their frankly kickass mobility equipment coupled with their pistol build. A reiver standing atop of terrain with a Grav-chute is among the most threatening melee combatants in the game, because he can engage sans overwatch with a simple Jump Down action following a standard move, and then *because he didn't charge, he moved*, he then gets to pop his target in the face with his heavy bolt pistol in the following shooting phase. That is bonkers. The grapple is also useful for getting into combat with people who are camping on the top floors of ruins, making the reiver sarge an excellent bully, but I would try to build for one trick at a time personally. My recommended Reiver builds would be either sarge/carbine/knife/grapple for 20 or reiver/pistol/knife/chute for 19. The basic reiver makes a great option for the non-specialist in your 5 man team, but if he is to be a specialist I'd choose Combat over zealot since remember he won't be aiming to do a lot of actual charge actions.

-You'll want to consider HTH combat vet vs a Blackshield for your dedicated Close Combat Guy. The blackshield offers increased flexibility - armed with 2 powerswords and Zealot he hits 2 times with each sword at S5 AP-3, and if he scores a wound with both, he deals 2 separate injury rolls, meaning he's really quite good at taking out nearly any kind of target. The HTH on the other hand is the absolute king of braining highly elite opponents, which means you'll be reaching for him fairly often in a 5-man configuration when you're facing off against opponents like plague marines and rubrics. The blackshield can also be made even more reliable with a storm shield+one weapon, but I tend to leave that at home in favor of running my leader with the shield. Kill Team is a game of Protect the Leader, and a leader is actually fairly safe with a storm shield in combat with a swarm of cheap chaff troops that can't hurt him.

Sample 5-man configuration

Sergeant 16 Storm Shield 3 Power Maul 2 (Leader)
Gunner 16 Infernus Bolter 3 (Heavy)
Veteran 14 HTH 5 (Combat)
Veteran 14 Combi-Plasma 4 Power Sword 2 (Sniper)
Gunner 16 Frag Cannon 5 (Fireteam)

This would be a solid configuration for a team to fight Thousand Sons, with plenty of range to reach out and boop the sorceror if he shows himself, and two anti-horde weapons to deal with any Tzaangor support before shifting fire modes to start whacking Rubrics as they get close (Infernus Bolter can always fling a Hellfire shell if you only have elite targets).

Weapon-by-weapon analysis

Pretty much everything in the Deathwatch catalog has at least some edge case uses, even the choices that are pretty poor in 40k (HTH and Infernus come to mind) the addition of Kill Team's specialist rules give us unprecedented freedom of weapon loadouts, so when and how should we use each weapon?

Boltgun: The old standby. Boltguns are not the hindrance to the Deathwatch that they are in the Space Marine, Chaos Marine and Death Guard lists, because Special Issue Ammo ensures they stay relevant even on fairly expensive bodies. When to take a boltgun is obvious: when you don't want something else. The biggest drawback of the boltgun is its dropoff in effectiveness over half range, and its lack of access to any multi-damage fire modes. problems you can solve with the Stalker and Shotgun, respectively for one point more.

Deathwatch Shotgun: Discount Frag Cannon. Since it costs a full 6 points less (factoring in the cost of becoming a Gunner to get the cannon) the difference seems a whole lot less impactful. The biggest drawback to this gun is it can't be paired with a power maul for when the enemy's chaff models inevitably do close with your shotgunner and tie him up. The shotgun gets really hilarious when combined with the Demolitions specialty, where even tough enemies will learn to fear the Xenopurge Slug - for 1CP, it can wound an obscured T4 model on a re-rollable 2+ to try and get that coveted damage 2 injury roll. probably the best overall "keep it cheap" specialist the Deathwatch have.

Stalker Boltgun: pretty much the only sniper-style weapon in the game where the Sniper specialism is actually better than the Demolitions specialism, because it doesn't dish mortal wounds. Take it when you want your leader cheap, or you don't have a combi-plasma and you want a cheap specialist. Because Deathwatch runs so few bodies and has such high leadership, pretty much the only way the team will break is if everyone is flesh wounded, so having someone hanging back not taking wounds can be an emperor-send. Another cute option for a Stalker boltgun wielder is the Heavy specialism, since MOre Bullets is at its most effective when it's upgrading a 2-shot gun to a 3-shot gun, and Suppressor is a good trait to have on the gun that's the least likely to be taking targets OOA. Consider if you have a spare specialist slot and don't have an infernus bolter in your team.

Combi-Melta: The iffiest weapon vets can take. Meltas have it tough in Kill Team because they're so reliant on the expensive 2Cp "decisive shot" stratagem. Run up to melta a Rubric marine and he's likely to just Ready up and plug you with a pair of S4 AP-2 shots before you can take the shot, unless you pony up your 2 points. Mostly I'd save the combi meltas for when you're taking on teams with very heavy close-range combatants, like tyranids, Plague Marine fighters or Reivers.

Combi-Plasma: Hello, sniper specialist! Hands down a must for when you're bringing one of these for the reroll of 1s, because unlike Guard, our basic boltgun is already a rapid fire weapon that wounds on 2s, so if you're using plasma, you better Overcharge it to get that damage 2. Thanks to overcharge only killing you on a natural 1, you might actually decide to use the bolter half of the combi as well.

Power Sword: Mathwise, very similar to the power maul on an unbuffed model, the breakpoint in effectivenss comes when you're fighting T3 5+ models (Guard, Cultists, GSC, Eldar) or T4 6+ models (orks). Power swords have the edge against marines of all types and Tau, where all the points of AP are useful. The difference is extremely slight however, and I would not sweat it given the massive number of swords that come in the kit. For obvious reasons 99% of the time you'll be wanting the off-hand swords, not the one that replaces your boltgun. If you're looking specifically at a Zealot specialist, always take the sword (or swords), because S6-S7 will never matter in Kill Team.

Power Maul: See above. If your model is likely to fight chumps, give them a maul rather than a sword (I take one on my leader because I purposefully seek out combat against chumps to avoid him getting shot)

Xenophase Blade: This is one of the most situational weapons in the arsenal, but the difference between it and the sword is so slight that honestly...if it looks cool to you take it. Its rule only matters vs Harlequins, Wyches, Thousand Sons, Genestealers and other Deathwatch. It's certainly great to have in those situations, but I find my leader to be more often in combat with a gaggle of orks, cultists or other cheap enemy troops than he is getting attacked by units with invuln saves.

Heavy Thunder Hammer: It's pretty much a must to make this guy a Combat specialist for the +1A and Warrior Adept at level 2, Combat Adept level 3, basically take anything that makes him more likely to get to that sweet sweet D6 damage roll. Ideally any turn you get to swing with your HTH, he should just remove an enemy.

Deathwatch Frag Cannon: *slaps frag cannon* this baby can fit so many unsaved wounds on it. The frag cannon is among the biggest F-off guns in the game, the biggest problem with it is the absolutely ludicrous level of overkill it typically applies to single model targets, and its high cost. In my experience, you buy this for the Frag profile, and you actually use it in game with the Shell profile, simply because of the D2 stat letting you reliably take models OOA in one shot. This is a great candidate for either your Fireteam member or to take it as one of your support specialisms, because its so ludicrously powerful on its own that you almost don't need any to-hit or to-wound boosts to have it reliably knock out an enemy model with each OOA. Alternatively, make it a member of your Fireteam to offset some of your opponent's target priority. As a final note, try to avoid taking the Frag Cannon alongside other models who will need to be using the 2CP Decisive Shot action (Meltas being the most common) because if you dive in for a close range frag cannon shot, your opponent will respond by Readying up and trying to take him out.

Infernus Bolter: Pretty much our weapon tailor-made for the Heavy specialism, particularly the Suppressor/Overwhelming Firepower combo at short range letting you spread around an absolutely obscene number of hits and debuffs. While it may look like a total downgrade from the frag cannon, its increased effective range and reduced cost make it remain quite relevant as an option, and as I get more games I start choosing it over the cannon more and more.

Storm Shield: The thing you use to keep your dude alive well past when he should be dead. We've been over the leader build, but there's also an entertaining option of JUST having a storm shield and nothing else on a 17pt vet. You still have a Krak grenade which is a solid short-range option for taking enemies out (D3 damage is really awesome!) and you can essentially run around being a big fat distraction. it's something I've tried only a couple times, but both times my opponent and I have ended up laughing about how stupidly hard to kill Mr Storm Shield was as he slowly bonked enemies that should have shredded other marines to death like Genestealers.

Wow, this is a lot to look over.

How do you feel about fielding Primaris Deathwatch, using a combination of Intercessors and Reivers? What Loadout would you recommend?

Because I'm a big fan of beefy pistols, Stalker Bolt Rifles, knife-murder, screaming armored lunatics, and big dudes stomping around 'covertly'.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Wow, this is a lot to look over.

How do you feel about fielding Primaris Deathwatch, using a combination of Intercessors and Reivers? What Loadout would you recommend?

Because I'm a big fan of beefy pistols, Stalker Bolt Rifles, knife-murder, screaming armored lunatics, and big dudes stomping around 'covertly'.

Primaris deathwatch actually did well for me over the weekend, and I tested out regular vets in one game against harlequins - I wish I had run the primaris that game too, as I was just instagibbed. Primaris would have been a little more hardy and given me a better chance that game I think. Intercessors have the extra tax of having to take two 2-point weapons but I am loving the bolt rifle so far, and reivers with SIA are very nice.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Wow, this is a lot to look over.

How do you feel about fielding Primaris Deathwatch, using a combination of Intercessors and Reivers? What Loadout would you recommend?

Because I'm a big fan of beefy pistols, Stalker Bolt Rifles, knife-murder, screaming armored lunatics, and big dudes stomping around 'covertly'.

Honestly? My recommendation is that a pure primaris team is probably 100% more effective as Space Marines than as Deathwatch. You get better stratagems (like that sweet reiver one that lets you throw a grenade before your charge so the enemy model hit can't fire Overwatch in addition to the other effects of the grenade, such as not being allowed to fire Overwatch...it still does something it's just worded very strangely) you can take the most effective boltgun/bolt pistol configurations without paying through the nose, and SIA isn't all that impressive.

Compare a basic vet with a Stalker boltgun to a Primaris marine with a bolt rifle and you'll see what I mean.

You get

+1W
Rapid fire so 1 shot past half range
-1LD

For the low, low cost of 4 points more.

IMO, there are two, possibly three viable Deathwatch primaris configurations.

Reiver sarge, carbine, combat knife. 19pts. Really solid build to give your Leader a little extra durability and bring the Reiver benefits to the table (shock grenades and terror tactics)

Reiver, HBP, Combat Knife. 18pts. Is it actually worth more than 16pts for a SM reiver? You get your one shot of SIA, you get your Rival Chapters and Decapitation Docrine, but you lose out on all the good marine strats and you pay 2pts more. Plus, what's your competing basic Deathwatch option? Blackshield with Power Sword and Boltgun. Same points cost. Same number of attacks. -3AP vs 0AP. Double the shooting and range. Rerolls charges. 1 fewer wound and no grenades/terror tactics...but that's an easy trade off.

Intercessor sarge, power weapon or chainsword, bolt pistol. 18pts/20pts with sword. Another possible good Leader build, but I like the reiver a whole lot more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Wow, this is a lot to look over.

How do you feel about fielding Primaris Deathwatch, using a combination of Intercessors and Reivers? What Loadout would you recommend?

Because I'm a big fan of beefy pistols, Stalker Bolt Rifles, knife-murder, screaming armored lunatics, and big dudes stomping around 'covertly'.

Primaris deathwatch actually did well for me over the weekend, and I tested out regular vets in one game against harlequins - I wish I had run the primaris that game too, as I was just instagibbed. Primaris would have been a little more hardy and given me a better chance that game I think. Intercessors have the extra tax of having to take two 2-point weapons but I am loving the bolt rifle so far, and reivers with SIA are very nice.

The problem is, a couple stormshield holding guys are far more durable against Harlequins than Deathwatch are, because just taking a Harlequins' kiss or Fusion Pistol basically cancels out the 2W entirely.

Jacksmiles wrote:


Primaris deathwatch actually did well for me over the weekend, and I tested out regular vets in one game against harlequins - I wish I had run the primaris that game too, as I was just instagibbed. Primaris would have been a little more hardy and given me a better chance that game I think. Intercessors have the extra tax of having to take two 2-point weapons but I am loving the bolt rifle so far, and reivers with SIA are very nice.

The problem is, a couple stormshield holding guys are far more durable against Harlequins than Deathwatch are, because just taking a Harlequins' kiss or Fusion Pistol basically cancels out the 2W entirely.

That's fair, and something I need to build to test. But my experience so far is dw primaris is playing smoothly for me against other opponents, particularly with SIA. My teams have felt like a good mix of offense and defense. You may be right for now about Primaris being better suited for SM with their tactics, but DW tactics will be coming. I'm going to test my SM primaris next time I get to play though, I'll see how that goes.

Jacksmiles wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:


Primaris deathwatch actually did well for me over the weekend, and I tested out regular vets in one game against harlequins - I wish I had run the primaris that game too, as I was just instagibbed. Primaris would have been a little more hardy and given me a better chance that game I think. Intercessors have the extra tax of having to take two 2-point weapons but I am loving the bolt rifle so far, and reivers with SIA are very nice.

The problem is, a couple stormshield holding guys are far more durable against Harlequins than Deathwatch are, because just taking a Harlequins' kiss or Fusion Pistol basically cancels out the 2W entirely.

That's fair, and something I need to build to test. But my experience so far is dw primaris is playing smoothly for me against other opponents, particularly with SIA. My teams have felt like a good mix of offense and defense. You may be right for now about Primaris being better suited for SM with their tactics, but DW tactics will be coming. I'm going to test my SM primaris next time I get to play though, I'll see how that goes.

I think it's mostly the fact that you can get that sixth man with the SM teams, more so than just the SM tactics.

FOr all the special tactics I have access to, I rarely end up using them over basic stuff like Decisive Shot/Decisive Punch, the level 1 specialist tactics, and rerolls for enemy injury rolls.

Do you think the 6th man is that valuable? I know it increases the breaking point but outside of enemy teams that are rocking more than a couple multi-wound weapons, is it a huge performance increase?

Cheapskate version would be getting First Strike box and paint them black.

Here was a incorrect listing.

Kraken bolts for added range and -1 AP.
Intercessors shooting from afar while reivers wreak havoc on the frontline.

Edit. Corrected errors.

pampatus wrote:
Cheapskate version would be getting First Strike box and paint them black.

19 Leader Reiver sargeant with heavy bolt pistol and combat knife
18 Combat Reiver with heavy bolt pistol and combat knife
18 Veteran Reiver with heavy bolt pistol and combat knife
15 Sniper Intercessor with boltgun
15 Intercessor with boltgun
15 Intercessor with boltgun
100 points

Kraken bolts for added range and -1 AP.
Intercessors shooting from afar while reivers wreak havoc on the frontline.

I think you mean 19 for all those intercessors.

2 for the bolt rifle
2 for the bolt pistol.

A 6th man is impossible for Primaris deathwatch - they're all over 17ppm.

the_scotsman wrote:

pampatus wrote:

I think you mean 19 for all those intercessors.

2 for the bolt rifle
2 for the bolt pistol.

A 6th man is impossible for Primaris deathwatch - they're all over 17ppm.

My bad. I looked DW weapon chart and Boltgun was 0 points and only after being corrected noticed intercessors use Bolt Rifles. Thanks for the quick heads up!

I’ll add my two cents here: having played some games I can safely say that the “Only in Death Does Duty End” tactic is delightful. Out of activation attacks are good in any game, and Kill Team is hardly an exception.

I’ve been running a combi plasma as a bullet catcher for my team and it’s been absolutely fantastic with him. Oh you shot him down? Darn. Guess I’ll overcharge and get some more shots on his way out...

THe frag cannon also makes opponents really pay attention to spacing. Or punishes the gak out of players who screw that up. And, importantly, makes the enemy risk being multifragged or not getting bonuses for nerve checks from friendly nearby.

As someone regularly running guard, a good frag cannon shot would roflsweep like half my team, or make me to scared to keep anyone together.

I just put together some deathwatch for a kill team and I made the meta decision to add the xenophase blade on my leader, which pushed me to ALSO take a combi melta as I had 3 points spare. I'll give myself more options when they come out with the big box for death watch.

stratigo wrote:
THe frag cannon also makes opponents really pay attention to spacing. Or punishes the gak out of players who screw that up. And, importantly, makes the enemy risk being multifragged or not getting bonuses for nerve checks from friendly nearby.

As someone regularly running guard, a good frag cannon shot would roflsweep like half my team, or make me to scared to keep anyone together.

I just put together some deathwatch for a kill team and I made the meta decision to add the xenophase blade on my leader, which pushed me to ALSO take a combi melta as I had 3 points spare. I'll give myself more options when they come out with the big box for death watch.

if you have 3 points spare I'd always go storm shield over combi-melta, if you're talking about on the Leader here. Leaders get shot at, a lot.

My leader has a storm shield. My combo melta went on another dude.

Deathwatch is super aggressive a team, so the short range isn’t a huge drawback

After a bit of testing, I've concluded that a select few primaris marine types don't seem to be as bad as I initially thought.

-Primaris Gunner with Aux Grenade Launcher and Bolt Rifle. Very solid Demolitions specialist for campaigns when you're looking at extended campaigns. A bit pricy as he starts at 20 points (like all Deathwatch Primaris, really) but once you get him to Grenadier, those Krak grenades are reliable and deadly and the ignores-cover SIA is great to combo with his bolt rifle.

-Reiver sarge with carbine, knife and grav chute. Already knew this one was good, but now I can confirm he's a great leader model having tested him out. Another 20pts.

-Reiver with HBP, grav chute and knife. I was skeptical of them before I learned that the grav chute enabled you to engage a model without charging, and subsequently pop them in the kisser with your wounding on 2s AP-1 bolt pistol. still pricy at 19pt, but a decent non-specialist for your kill team. If you have to make him a specialist, make him a Combat, but I'd save those for vets who get access to more specialist weaponry.

The new Tactics from the Kill Team Mordecai box appear to be a mixed bag.

Priority Execution - 1CP

Play when you choose a model from your kill team to fight in the fight phase. Add 1 to all wound rolls for the model until the end of the phase.

Death to the Alien - 1CP

Play when you select a model from your kill team to fight in the fight phase. For each hit roll of 5+ that you make against a model without the Imperium, Chaos, or Unaligned keywords, you can immediately make an additional attack roll using the same weapon. These attacks cannot themselves generate additional attacks.

Tactical Disengagement - 1CP

Use when a model from your kill team Retreats. This model may retreat 6" rather than 3" and can still shoot in the shooting phase of this battle round even though it Retreated.

The Beheading - 2CP

Use this tactic at the start of the Fight phase. You may reroll any hit rolls that target the enemy Leader until the end of the phase.

Unrelenting - 1CP

Use this tactic when you select a model to shoot in the shooting phase. it is considered not to have moved in the movement phase.

My Armor is Contempt - 1CP

Use when your model takes one or more mortal wounds. Model gains a 5+ save against mortal wounds for the remainder of the phase.

Trust in your Armor - 1CP

Use at the beginning of your movement phase to treat Barbed Venomgorse as open ground.

Couple good ones, couple situational ones, and a LOT of over-emphasis on the Fight phase, particularly given that we already have Rival Chapters which can be used in the Fight phase as well. The only one of the new ones I can see using is Priority Execution to make sure my powersword wounds or to try and get that 6+ on my HTH.

Tactical Retreat seems like the real winner here, allowing you to play ballsy with your Frag Cannon and then block your enemy's counter assault. That's pretty awesome, especially if you position your frag cannon such that he's really the only viable target.

Agreed, though Death to the Alien does have a niche use. If you’re running a Blackshield or Sergeant Combat specialist at level 2 you can trigger it on a 4+. That’s effectively an extra attack for every two attacks you’ve got base, which is pretty impressive. Orks have a tactic for 1 CP that grants 1 attack flat in all situations, as a comparison.

Unrelenting is also pretty great as it allows you to make crucial moves with the Infernus and Frag Cannon that would’ve otherwise been problematic. I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to advance with it either, so you could kite away from enemies.

Between Unrelenting and Tactical Disengagement you should only end up in melee when you want to.

Rivener wrote:
Agreed, though Death to the Alien does have a niche use. If you’re running a Blackshield or Sergeant Combat specialist at level 2 you can trigger it on a 4+. That’s effectively an extra attack for every two attacks you’ve got base, which is pretty impressive. Orks have a tactic for 1 CP that grants 1 attack flat in all situations, as a comparison.

Unrelenting is also pretty great as it allows you to make crucial moves with the Infernus and Frag Cannon that would’ve otherwise been problematic. I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to advance with it either, so you could kite away from enemies.

Between Unrelenting and Tactical Disengagement you should only end up in melee when you want to.

It doesn't say Advance, but then again it also doesn't say Charge.

Charge, Advance, Move, and Ready are four totally different actions in Kill Team, which is why the Eldar don't count as having moved but they also don't count as Readied.

The Frag cannon is an assault weapon though. The only weapon that cares about moving is the infernus bolter...and you could just make him a heavy to have that all the time.

Hmm, that’s a good point. I wouldn’t mind a FAQ just so we know the exact value of that tactic. I think the more conservative reading, that it only keeps you from taking a to-hit penalty when moving with an Infernus or Stalker, is the proper one for now.

If it instead permits advancing that would bring some extra value, and if it permits Falling Back or Charging...well then we’re getting into a pretty wacky situation.

I still like it though, since the Infernus is an ace weapon in its own right, and this lets you move and shoot with two of them without penalty if you bring one with the Heavy specialism too.

Did DW-KT get some new tactics in the DW Killteam box set?

 _Ness wrote:
Did DW-KT get some new tactics in the DW Killteam box set?

Oh yes they did.

Some really nasty ones, too.

You can spend 1CP to withdraw 6" instead of 3" and shoot.

You can spend 1CP and add 1 to all wound rolls in the fight phase.

One lets you shrug off a Mortal Wound on a 5+, I believe.

One has exploding dice on a 5+ in the Fight Phase.

Short stupid question... I see lot of pictures of DW Veteran with 2 power swords. What does it bring in terms of gameplay? I cannot find it in the rule book...

 RedizDead wrote:
Short stupid question... I see lot of pictures of DW Veteran with 2 power swords. What does it bring in terms of gameplay? I cannot find it in the rule book...

You can split your attacks to each of the weapons (so the example used is a Zealot Black Shield, 3 attacks base, zealot add 1 attack and 1 strength when charging), this gives 2 attacks per sword at strength 5 ap -3. As the wounding rules go you only discard extra hits after the model is reduced to 0 wounds on a per weapon basis, so with 2 weapons (assuming they both hit and wound) you can force 2 seperate injury rolls i.e first sword hits once and wounds, injury roll is made and the target suffers a flesh wound. Then the second sword hits and wounds causing a new injury roll (with the appropriate modifier for suffering flesh wounds).

Iirc this is how it should play out but hopefully if I'm wrong someone will clarify ^^

RedizDead wrote:Short stupid question... I see lot of pictures of DW Veteran with 2 power swords. What does it bring in terms of gameplay? I cannot find it in the rule book...

Foxfyre wrote:

 RedizDead wrote:
Short stupid question... I see lot of pictures of DW Veteran with 2 power swords. What does it bring in terms of gameplay? I cannot find it in the rule book...

You can split your attacks to each of the weapons (so the example used is a Zealot Black Shield, 3 attacks base, zealot add 1 attack and 1 strength when charging), this gives 2 attacks per sword at strength 5 ap -3. As the wounding rules go you only discard extra hits after the model is reduced to 0 wounds on a per weapon basis, so with 2 weapons (assuming they both hit and wound) you can force 2 seperate injury rolls i.e first sword hits once and wounds, injury roll is made and the target suffers a flesh wound. Then the second sword hits and wounds causing a new injury roll (with the appropriate modifier for suffering flesh wounds).

Iirc this is how it should play out but hopefully if I'm wrong someone will clarify ^^

Thank you! I'd been wondering all day why you'd take 2 of the same weapon!

craggy wrote:

RedizDead wrote:Short stupid question... I see lot of pictures of DW Veteran with 2 power swords. What does it bring in terms of gameplay? I cannot find it in the rule book...

Foxfyre wrote:

 RedizDead wrote:
Short stupid question... I see lot of pictures of DW Veteran with 2 power swords. What does it bring in terms of gameplay? I cannot find it in the rule book...

You can split your attacks to each of the weapons (so the example used is a Zealot Black Shield, 3 attacks base, zealot add 1 attack and 1 strength when charging), this gives 2 attacks per sword at strength 5 ap -3. As the wounding rules go you only discard extra hits after the model is reduced to 0 wounds on a per weapon basis, so with 2 weapons (assuming they both hit and wound) you can force 2 seperate injury rolls i.e first sword hits once and wounds, injury roll is made and the target suffers a flesh wound. Then the second sword hits and wounds causing a new injury roll (with the appropriate modifier for suffering flesh wounds).

Iirc this is how it should play out but hopefully if I'm wrong someone will clarify ^^

Thank you! I'd been wondering all day why you'd take 2 of the same weapon!

Might want to run that past the rules gurus. I seem to recall something that stops it and makes dual power swords pointless. But I don't have my rulebook nearby and can't locate the thread I am thinking of.

<EDIT>
Found it. pg 32 last paragraph of the dmg characteristic.
"If a model loses its last wound when there are attacks or mortal wounds still allocated to it, these are not resolved."

So once you knock them to 0 wounds you are done swinging. If you are going to go the two powerweaon route get a maul and sword combo. IMO, you are better off with the SS over the second weapon.

Might want to run that past the rules gurus. I seem to recall something that stops it and makes dual power swords pointless. But I don't have my rulebook nearby and can't locate the thread I am thinking of.

<EDIT>
Found it. pg 32 last paragraph of the dmg characteristic.
"If a model loses its last wound when there are attacks or mortal wounds still allocated to it, these are not resolved."

So once you knock them to 0 wounds you are done swinging. If you are going to go the two powerweaon route get a maul and sword combo. IMO, you are better off with the SS over the second weapon.

You've missed the actual rule as per page 31 'Inflict Damage'

"...If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model."

(emphasis mine)

The rule you quote is for multi-hit weapons (D3/D6 hits etc.)

Foxfyre wrote:

Might want to run that past the rules gurus. I seem to recall something that stops it and makes dual power swords pointless. But I don't have my rulebook nearby and can't locate the thread I am thinking of.

<EDIT>
Found it. pg 32 last paragraph of the dmg characteristic.
"If a model loses its last wound when there are attacks or mortal wounds still allocated to it, these are not resolved."

So once you knock them to 0 wounds you are done swinging. If you are going to go the two powerweaon route get a maul and sword combo. IMO, you are better off with the SS over the second weapon.

You've missed the actual rule as per page 31 'Inflict Damage'

"...If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model."

(emphasis mine)

The rule you quote is for multi-hit weapons (D3/D6 hits etc.)

Nope did not miss it at all. At the very beginning of the sequence it mentions that the entire sequence is if you choose to roll single dice instead of all at once. See the first paragraph under Resolve attacks on pg 30. So if more attacks are allocated to the model they are lost. However, if you are shooting, and have another weapon, or another model attacks then you restart the entire sequence (see step 4 in the sequence, choose another ranged weapon and target). But melee hits are all allocated at once so you lose them once you wound. Even if you have multiple CC weapons you choose targets and allocate attacks just once. pg 34 step 2. There is no CC step to choose another weapon and allocate more attacks. That only applies to ranged weapons.

I don't disagree that it is all written in a way that is hard to follow and a little confusing. Typical GW rules writing. And they hide that last little bit after the multi damage weapons. It looks like it is supposed to be part of the damage characteristic heading, but it appears to apply to all wounds and specifically calls out other types of wounds and attacks. RAW I think it applies to all wounds, even though most of that section is discussing weapons that do more than 1 point of dmg.

I will be happy to have missed something. I want to be wrong here. :( Having a benefit to having 2 powerswords would definately be cool and the model is awesome. Part of what drew me into DW for KT to begin with.

No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

This is my current list using models converted from the kill team cassius set, so your thoughts gentlemen?


++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [100pts] ++

+ Configuration +

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

+ Leader +

Watch Sergeant [16pts]: Boltgun, Leader

+ Specialists +

Veteran [17pts]: Combi-melta, Comms

Veteran [16pts]: Boltgun, Combat, Power sword

Veteran Gunner [21pts]: Deathwatch frag cannon, Demolitions

+ Non-specialists +

Veteran [15pts]: Stalker pattern boltgun

Veteran [15pts]: Deathwatch shotgun

++ Total: [100pts] ++

The idea is to have the leader hang back with the Stalker bolt gun marine close by as back up, and the combat specialist charging up with the shotgun marine for a close hitting punch. The Frag cannon is a self contained fire base and the combi-melta commas will stay close to either the leader group or Combat group to give the +1 to hit.

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

where on pg 31 does it say to discard attacks from that weapon only? ranged attacks you repeat the sequence for each weapon. It doesn't say that for CC that I see. All CC attacks are allocated at once.

 Mordekiem wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

where on pg 31 does it say to discard attacks from that weapon only? ranged attacks you repeat the sequence for each weapon. It doesn't say that for CC that I see. All CC attacks are allocated at once.

As I previously quoted, Page 31, section 4

"...If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model."

Then on page 35, section 4

Resolve Close Combat Attacks - Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for the number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks...

Nowhere does it say that CC attacks are assigned all at once, in fact the rules clearly state the opposite as I quoted above.

Foxfyre wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

where on pg 31 does it say to discard attacks from that weapon only? ranged attacks you repeat the sequence for each weapon. It doesn't say that for CC that I see. All CC attacks are allocated at once.

As I previously quoted, Page 31, section 4

"...If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model."

Then on page 35, section 4

Resolve Close Combat Attacks - Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for the number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks...

Nowhere does it say that CC attacks are assigned all at once, in fact the rules clearly state the opposite as I quoted above.

We're going in circles I think. I made my argument and will let it stand. No need to rehash everything. Let's talk about how to make a better DW kill team. Like Shotguns. Are they worth it?

Hey guys,

Where do we stand on loadouts for Primaris?

Should I be looking at Standard, Auto, or Stalker Bolt Rifles for my Intercessors?

I'm not sure if I'm fully grasping the pros and cons of each

Thanks

primaris are really expensive and don't get many options. I can see possibly including one or two. But you get better options and more bang for your buck with vets I think. If you want to run a bunch of primaris you are probably better just playing astartes.


I think the two best uses are probably going to be a combat reiver sgt (to go with blackshield for a burly CC team) and a intercessor sgt leader (To make a tougher to kill leader). Grenade launcher could be cool, but I am not sold on it yet. It's there with the shotguns as weapons that don't super impress me.

So played my first game with Deathwatch Primaris 89pts vs Tyranids 88pts (8 Genestealers) Gather Intelligence mission

Sgt Tauran (Minotaurs) (Leader) Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Brother Sorini (Sons of Medusa) (Demo) Stalker Bolt Rifle
"Whisper" (Ravenguard) (Sniper) Stalker Bolt Rifle
Specialist Cassian (Mentors) (Comms) Bolt Rifle
Brother Tugal (Flesh Tearers) Bolt Rifle

I killed 7 of the 8 'stealers and claimed 1 objective without losing a single model
having the Comms boosting the Sniper and using the Sniper tactic allowed me to pick off objective campers really easily

 Rolsheen wrote:
So played my first game with Deathwatch Primaris 89pts vs Tyranids 88pts (8 Genestealers) Gather Intelligence mission

Sgt Tauran (Minotaurs) (Leader) Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Brother Sorini (Sons of Medusa) (Demo) Stalker Bolt Rifle
"Whisper" (Ravenguard) (Sniper) Stalker Bolt Rifle
Specialist Cassian (Mentors) (Comms) Bolt Rifle
Brother Tugal (Flesh Tearers) Bolt Rifle

I killed 7 of the 8 'stealers and claimed 1 objective without losing a single model
having the Comms boosting the Sniper and using the Sniper tactic allowed me to pick off objective campers really easily

That's 99 points (bolt pistols cost 2 points and I don't see an option to just drop them). Only difference that would have made would be the nids player would have had 1 more CP at the start though.

Just got the Kill Team Mordecai box, but I'm curious how I should build them so I don't regret it immediately. I also have a few Intercessors available (unbuilt) if that makes a difference.

Is there a good TAC list established?

[KILL TEAM] My first army: How to build 10 DW?

As for a TAC, not at the moment. Also I don't think an elite KT faction like DW can have one. Every figure must carry its weight, and so you should purpose build against your opponent. Remember that per the core rules, the mission is selected first, then each player selects their faction (keyword), so you'd then know what your DW would face, and can select a KT accordingly.

As for the actual modeling, work out a couple teams first that you'd like to use, then see what overlaps. My post in the linked thread has my three sample DW Veteran teams that I worked out. (I did buy a 5 man KT box to add to Kill Team Mordelai though.) I've also designed a 5 man CC KT with Primaris Reivers, but did not include it as I do not own any yet. However, the added mobility of Reivers could be important.

 Weazel wrote:
Just got the Kill Team Mordecai box, but I'm curious how I should build them so I don't regret it immediately. I also have a few Intercessors available (unbuilt) if that makes a difference.

Is there a good TAC list established?

I’ve got some models available to me that I’m hoping I can make a good workable Kill Team.

Heavy Thunder Hammer.
Boltgun + Power Sword.
Shotgun.
Frag Cannon.
Boltgun.

So it seems clear the two options to have on the Shotgun and Frag as specialists, so they’re in. (Demo & Comms).

But should the leader be the sword guy (looks more like one) or standard Boltgun?

And should I put HTH in with this set up (with Combat)?
Or try to get some other options?

I have some spare DW shoulder pads so can make a few variant marines (though they will look plain aside from that and maybe a DW helmet). Limited in weapon choice, but usable none the less.
It would be Bolters, Power Sword/Maul, a combi-melta.


Any help on whether I can get a Deathwatch KT off the ground with these would be great!

Heavy Thunder Hammer. 19pts
Boltgun + Power Sword. 16pts
Shotgun. 15pts
Frag Cannon. 21pts
Boltgun. 14pts
+2 For cost of Sergeant 2pts
Total 87pts

You should keep at least 1 figure for HtH, if only to counterpunch when someone charges your figures. As you have 13pts left you could make the Bolter marine a DW gunner with Frag Cannon (+7pts), and change the shotgun to a Stalker pattern bolter & Power Sword/Maul (+2). That fellow could be the Watch Sgt. With a Stalker pattern bolter, he can act as a sniper keeping him out of HtH, but he has a PW in case of trouble, or for a "Hail Mary" in case the fight goes turns against you.

Alternately, the Watch Sgt. could have a Combi-Melta & Power Sword/Maul (16+3+2 = 21) since you have the parts available.

Danny76 wrote:
I’ve got some models available to me that I’m hoping I can make a good workable Kill Team.

Heavy Thunder Hammer.
Boltgun + Power Sword.
Shotgun.
Frag Cannon.
Boltgun.

So it seems clear the two options to have on the Shotgun and Frag as specialists, so they’re in. (Demo & Comms).

But should the leader be the sword guy (looks more like one) or standard Boltgun?

And should I put HTH in with this set up (with Combat)?
Or try to get some other options?

I have some spare DW shoulder pads so can make a few variant marines (though they will look plain aside from that and maybe a DW helmet). Limited in weapon choice, but usable none the less.
It would be Bolters, Power Sword/Maul, a combi-melta.


Any help on whether I can get a Deathwatch KT off the ground with these would be great!

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
So played my first game with Deathwatch Primaris 89pts vs Tyranids 88pts (8 Genestealers) Gather Intelligence mission

Sgt Tauran (Minotaurs) (Leader) Bolt Rifle, Power Sword
Brother Sorini (Sons of Medusa) (Demo) Stalker Bolt Rifle
"Whisper" (Ravenguard) (Sniper) Stalker Bolt Rifle
Specialist Cassian (Mentors) (Comms) Bolt Rifle
Brother Tugal (Flesh Tearers) Bolt Rifle

I killed 7 of the 8 'stealers and claimed 1 objective without losing a single model
having the Comms boosting the Sniper and using the Sniper tactic allowed me to pick off objective campers really easily

That's 99 points (bolt pistols cost 2 points and I don't see an option to just drop them). Only difference that would have made would be the nids player would have had 1 more CP at the start though.

Thanks, forgot about the pistols

 Weazel wrote:
Just got the Kill Team Mordecai box, but I'm curious how I should build them so I don't regret it immediately. I also have a few Intercessors available (unbuilt) if that makes a difference.

Is there a good TAC list established?

I feel like KT with small units is specifically designed around taking a specific list for your opponent. One of the benefits of a small Team is you have a lot of options on your command roster so can set up for certain opponents.

That said, If you want to try to get a TAC list I think you are going to want to maximize the firepower of your guys. I prefer 6 models to help take objectives so would go with something like this to start with.

Sgt w/ Stalker BG - Leader
Gunner w/ Infernus - Heavy
Gunner with Frag
Vet w/ Powerweapon - Combat (powermaul) or Zealot (powersword)
Vet w/ bolter - Comms
Vet w/ bolter

I think the frag cannon is already a huge target so don't make him a specialist. Comms is really strong and he can give that +1 to himself or someone else. If you do a campaign mode then you might want to reconsider.

I guess I could make the Veterans more CC oriented as the Intercessors can only be ranged oriented really.

Is there any point in giving someone two powerswords? Does it give an extra attack?

 Weazel wrote:
I guess I could make the Veterans more CC oriented as the Intercessors can only be ranged oriented really.

Is there any point in giving someone two powerswords? Does it give an extra attack?

It's a gray area in the rules. Some say it doesn't matter, some say it allows you a chance to get an extra wound. Depends on how your group, LGS, TO, etc interpret the rules. Just read the earlier posts in this thread if you want to see both sides of it. I think FoxFyre and I laid down both sides of the argument pretty well.

My FLGS held a Kill Team tournament today. We had to use a TAC list for the following missions. Terror Tactics, Recover intelligence, and Sweep and Clear. I used this list. And since not every faction has their exclusive Tactics cards yet, we only used Core rules tactics.

6 man Team 100pts
Watch Sergeant w/ BG & PS 18pts
DW Gunner w/ Infernus Heavy Bolter 18pts Heavy
DW Veteran w/ Stalker Pattern BG 15pts Comms
DW Veteran w/ Shotgun 15pts
DW Veteran w/ PS & Storm Shield 19pts Combat
DW Veteran w/ BG & PS 16pts

Only won 1 game (3rd round vs Harlequins), and I did play the DW poorly. Although my 2nd round opponent will support me in that my dice also betrayed me.

Round 1: vs Marines (Lamenters tactical and Primaris ... hand painted shoulder pads too!), tied, but the tiebreaker is he got 1 man off the board while it was zero for me. Should had the Combat specialist fall back on turn 3 to have the chance to run off the edge turn 4.

Round 2: vs Tau. He was running lots of Stealth Suits, so hitting was a problem. And despite mostly needing 3+ to save throughout the game, only made all 3 saves! Also, six "1"s in a row! There are only so many re-rolls you can take.

Round 3: vs Harlequins. My win by a point. Played badly since I thought like Recover Intelligence you scored objectives per turn so deployed further forward than necessary, letting the Harlequin player change nearly his entire team turn 1. However, despite being outmatched in hth, I did kill his Leader and two specialists. This was enough to Break his team so he could not score objectives turn 4 when the game ended.

What I learned ...
1. Against superior numbers like Tau, use refused flank to minimize their numerical superiority. (Ideally deadzone some of them!)
2. You must have at least 1 CC specialist, even if only for counter-punching when the Heavy gets Charged.

I'm think in a TAC list like this, making the Sergeant a Primaris Intercessors Sgt with Power Weapon might be better than the Veteran Sgt. Same cost, but the Bolt Rifle is longer ranged, and the Sgt is 2 Wnds. Yes, it would better to be a ranged master or CC master, but since the tourney forced us to run generalist lists, a primaris generalist is better than the Veteran generalist.

Is that much close combat good with the power swords?

I was unsure how many to build.
I only have 7 bodies total, and some are already built up.. so I’m limited with remaining

What is your local meta? In the tourney, I'd have preferred Power Mauls, since the added Str would be better against the Tau and Harlequins (Str 6 vs T3 = WND 2+), and the Harlies are 4+ INV so -3 Armor Save is wasted. If your group has lots of MEQ, the power sword is better, but if armor is light or medium, and/or the majority of your foes will be T3, go power maul.

Danny76 wrote:
Is that much close combat good with the power swords?

I was unsure how many to build.
I only have 7 bodies total, and some are already built up.. so I’m limited with remaining

Yeah plenty of marines and such so it may be the way to go?

Danny76 wrote:
Yeah plenty of marines and such so it may be the way to go?

Sounds like it. IIRC, you do have a Hvy Thunder Hammer so that will help. Still if you are limited as to figures you could magnetize weapon arms. and change between PS and PM.

I could probably get a magnetized option between the two.

Next question:
Should the combi plasma guy I’m building have a sword/maul with him, or just that on its own?

Separate. Ideally, the combi plasma gunner will remain unengaged, making the CC weapon a waste. If he does get engaged, have the CC specialist bail him out. However, if the Sgt is carrying the combi plasma (or any special ranged weapon), I do give him a CC weapon since he does have an extra attack, and also the enemy will try to headhunt your leader. The extra CP per turn is important in KT.

Danny76 wrote:

Next question:
Should the combi plasma guy I’m building have a sword/maul with him, or just that on its own?

I magnetized my BS with powersword/maul and SS. I made a regular vet w. PS and reg vet with PM in case I want a more CC focused group. But you could also easily magnetize those arms as well.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Separate. Ideally, the combi plasma gunner will remain unengaged, making the CC weapon a waste. If he does get engaged, have the CC specialist bail him out. However, if the Sgt is carrying the combi plasma (or any special ranged weapon), I do give him a CC weapon since he does have an extra attack, and also the enemy will try to headhunt your leader. The extra CP per turn is important in KT.

Danny76 wrote:

Next question:
Should the combi plasma guy I’m building have a sword/maul with him, or just that on its own?

Excellent. I shall do two separate ones.

Indeed regarding the Sgt. but should I just make him the bolter and blade, not bother with the plasma on him?
Tactically I mean

Yes, Bolter & PW. Here's a thought I had ... a Primaris Intercessor Sgt with PW costs the same as DWV Sgt with PW: 16 +2 = 18pts. That's an extra WND and a longer ranged Rapid Fire Weapon (30" instead of 24"). However, I think we're in the same boat modelwise: no Primaris and just DW/Tac marine figures. Still if one can find a trade or score a good deal on eBay, it is something to keep in mind.

Danny76 wrote:

Indeed regarding the Sgt. but should I just make him the bolter and blade, not bother with the plasma on him?
Tactically I mean

Intercessor sergeant with Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Power Sword is 22 points. Remember that both Bolt weapons cost 2pts on Primaris models and you can't drop the pistol.

I recommend using battlescribe to build your lists.

Yeah that’s why I’m a bit unsure on Primaris being mixed in, you don’t get many DW as is is


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:
Intercessor sergeant with Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Power Sword is 22 points. Remember that both Bolt weapons cost 2pts on Primaris models and you can't drop the pistol.

I recommend using battlescribe to build your lists.

What’s going on with all the BattleScribe files, I can’t see much on the site now, github was linking back to nothing on bs site..

It seems there's an issue with the repositories at the moment. I'm sure it'll be fixed soon.

Note file on my iPad it is then for the time being.

I think with them two guys I’ve got I can magnetise one to be CombiPlas + Bolter options (though not sure in his other hand, maybe just pointing or something I guess..)

Then the other guy to be Bolter with Sword + Maul options.

Yes, you are correct. Not the first mistake I've made and probably not the last. (The first was Stalker pattern bolter and Storm Shield on a Watch Sgt. Fixed it on paper, but had to wait for a 2nd 5 man DW KT for the arm & shoulder pad.)

 Weazel wrote:
Intercessor sergeant with Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Power Sword is 22 points. Remember that both Bolt weapons cost 2pts on Primaris models and you can't drop the pistol.

I recommend using battlescribe to build your lists.

Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.

 Mordekiem wrote:
Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.

I’m only just lo9king and starting to learn the rules and lists in the book, now I’ve gotta reference the errata to figure things out too

Primaris Intercessor Sgt with Auspex is 17pts. Can use him to boost the Frag Cannon gunner. Worth considering if I can find a deal or trade.

As for my Deathwatch, I now have 11 assembled figures and twenty unassembled. My reivers came in early this week (HBP, Combat Knife, Grav-chute, Grapnel = 18pts *2 = 36pts), and just came home to find Kill Team Cassius arrived from GW US. Will build the 2 bolter marines, and the Frag Cannon. The rest can remain unassembled until I've played more or have new ideas. And I still haven't finished building the Rogue Trader terrain, or the Deathworld Forest that came with the Kill Team Mordelai box.

You folks think the Intercessor arm computer with screen would be an acceptable Auspex count-as?

Lemondish wrote:
You folks think the Intercessor arm computer with screen would be an acceptable Auspex count-as?

I used that arm for my comms trooper.

In a friendly setting I’m sure it would be OK. That said, it shouldn’t be that hard to find the right bit to hang off the sarge’s belt one one of the hand-held options. I know I’m going to revisit my intercessor sarge and just add one to his belt myself. Team was 99 points anyway.

I was thinking for comms I'd add a small brass rod as an antenna to the backpack. Nothing huge or anything, but enough to make him different. Can probably do something similar for an Auspex.

 Nevelon wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
You folks think the Intercessor arm computer with screen would be an acceptable Auspex count-as?

I used that arm for my comms trooper.

In a friendly setting I’m sure it would be OK. That said, it shouldn’t be that hard to find the right bit to hang off the sarge’s belt one one of the hand-held options. I know I’m going to revisit my intercessor sarge and just add one to his belt myself. Team was 99 points anyway.

No problem finding em - the easy to build kit has one, and the Ultramarine upgrade sprue does too. Just thought the arm computer looked way cooler lol

Have you all caught any flak for running the Auspex? RAW it should be fine, but i’ve gotten some looks.

Rivener wrote:
Have you all caught any flak for running the Auspex? RAW it should be fine, but i’ve gotten some looks.

Download the FAQ to your phone or tablet and show your opponent that this is official.

As I have not played since the FAQ came out (and I don't have an Intercessor yet) no flak for running Auspex.

Have joined a campaign at the LGS, but they are not going exactly by the book. When I go in tomorrow, I'll get them to clarify if we are using a 12 man command roster or a fixed 100pt roster like we did in the tournament.

In case it's fixed roster, here's my revised 100pt KT.

6 man Team B 100pts
Watch Sergeant w/ PS & BG 18pts
DW Veteran w/ Stalker Pattern BG Hvy 15pts
DW Veteran w/ BG Comms 14pts
DW Veteran w/ BG & PS Combat 16pts
DW Veteran w/ BG & Power Maul 16pts
DW Gunner w/ Frag Cannon 21pts

Hopefully it is a12 man roster and we can switch figures in and out as per the core rulebook.

 Mordekiem wrote:
Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.

RAW though I'm pretty sure the Intercessor Auspex doesn't work for Primaris Marines, for the same reason Primaris Deathwatch can't use the regular Adeptus Astartes stratagems.

It says "Adeptus Astartes model within 3"

Deathwatch lose the Adeptus Astartes keyword.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.

RAW though I'm pretty sure the Intercessor Auspex doesn't work for Primaris Marines, for the same reason Primaris Deathwatch can't use the regular Adeptus Astartes stratagems.

It says "Adeptus Astartes model within 3"

Deathwatch lose the Adeptus Astartes keyword.

you are right! Need an errata for their errata already.

 Mordekiem wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.

RAW though I'm pretty sure the Intercessor Auspex doesn't work for Primaris Marines, for the same reason Primaris Deathwatch can't use the regular Adeptus Astartes stratagems.

It says "Adeptus Astartes model within 3"

Deathwatch lose the Adeptus Astartes keyword.

you are right! Need an errata for their errata already.

Well, that makes the Deathwatch Intercessor Sgt less interesting, although it should still work on the DW vets as they have Adeptus Astartes as a keyword. However, if it is the faction keyword that matters, then no, Auspex does not work.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

Rivener wrote:
Have you all caught any flak for running the Auspex? RAW it should be fine, but i’ve gotten some looks.

Download the FAQ to your phone or tablet and show your opponent that this is official.

As I have not played since the FAQ came out (and I don't have an Intercessor yet) no flak for running Auspex.

Have joined a campaign at the LGS, but they are not going exactly by the book. When I go in tomorrow, I'll get them to clarify if we are using a 12 man command roster or a fixed 100pt roster like we did in the tournament.

In case it's fixed roster, here's my revised 100pt KT.

6 man Team B 100pts
Watch Sergeant w/ PS & BG 18pts
DW Veteran w/ Stalker Pattern BG Hvy 15pts
DW Veteran w/ BG Comms 14pts
DW Veteran w/ BG & PS Combat 16pts
DW Veteran w/ BG & Power Maul 16pts
DW Gunner w/ Frag Cannon 21pts

Hopefully it is a12 man roster and we can switch figures in and out as per the core rulebook.

Remember it's only 12 man for the first game and it's then unlimited size.

Also have them look at the nova and warhammer world event packs both of which are using 20man rosters per standard matched play non-campaign rules. The roster is really important to avoid it being all about matchup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
for the same reason Primaris Deathwatch can't use the regular Adeptus Astartes stratagems.

None of the deathwatch can use regular astartes tactics - you have to have all models with adeptus astartes faction to unlock them.

The place I play has been running the official GW kill team league, so I've finally gotten to play around with advancing specialists and also gotten to get a solid few games in with my full 20-man roster of Deathwatch, which has pretty much one of every possible loadout. A couple things I've been learning that have surprised me so far, curious about others' experiences:

1) in most situations, storm shield > any other options for leaders and close combat specialists

I've tried a couple configurations with my close combat guys, mostly HTH Combat specialists, power sword/boltgun Blackshields and Vets with Zealot, and Reivers, but the storm shield just consistently comes up absolutely clutch. You can pretty much count this guy as invincible if you go into the enemy's shooting/HTH phase with a die held over to reroll the invuln save. The biggest problem with Deathwatch is that your power armored shooty guys get blasted if you can't smash the enemy's high powered weapons with your initial volley, and having a storm shield around is super valuable.

and speaking of storm shields..

2) veteran specialist blackshield with power weapon and storm shield is consistently amazing.

You pretty much don't want this guy in three matchups: Orks, Drukhari, and Nids. Versus pretty much everyone else, this dude letting out a blood curdling screech and flinging himself at the enemy lines is all you need to attract tons of enemy attention until they can finally take him down. Scouting phase, select the "move 20%" strategy to move him up, spend 1CP to Adaptive Tactics him forward, then charge something with a reroll turn 1. And then, if you're lucky enough to play in a campaign, this guy who will be gaining 2XP guaranteed every game will hit level 3 eventually, at which point he gets Survivor and goes super-saiyan.

Generally, the more games I play, the more I have been impressed with Toys and disillusioned when it comes to Boys. It's pretty much always worth it to try and stretch all your guys to 20ppm and load them up with swag over throwing around 1-2pt upgrades on 6 guys and trying to get any kills with pathetic boltgun shots.

Its interesting you bring up Orks, because I've found them to consistently be one of the easiest matchups to shoot right off the table, especially with Primaris. Bog them down with Demolition Charges in scouting, then harass them with a Riever then make them go face-first into a Bolt Rifle gunline and they just melt.

Had a game yesterday where the Ork player never got a shot or a charge off because of that.

Sterling191 wrote:
Its interesting you bring up Orks, because I've found them to consistently be one of the easiest matchups to shoot right off the table, especially with Primaris. Bog them down with Demolition Charges in scouting, then harass them with a Riever then make them go face-first into a Bolt Rifle gunline and they just melt.

Had a game yesterday where the Ork player never got a shot or a charge off because of that.

I bring them up because the only bad matchups for Crazy Suicide Veteran are the ones with high volume, low quality melee attacks. So nids, wyches, and orks. Versus those you want to just bring guns and make sure you've got a couple frag cannons to bounce. A couple uses of the "tactical retreat" stratagem from Kill Team Mordecai box usually suffices to make sure you get enough casualties on those kinds of armies to beat them down.

Versus elite melee, I can generally tie up 2-3 scary guys with my crazy stormshielder, and versus shooty armies his 12" move plus rerollable charge is usually enough to have him bumrush the enemy lines turn 1.

My strategies have generally coalesced into three basic game plans:

1) versus shooty army or some others like Harlequins

Cheap shooty leader (usually a stalker boltgun), crazy stormshield veteran, longrange shooters like Intercessor Gunner with auspex, infernus boltgun, etc.

2) versus hordey rush melee like orks, drukhari, swarm nids, gsc etc

Reiver leader with carbine and knife, short range shooters like frag cannons, shotguns, etc, one longer range shooter usually a combi-plas for picking off specialists and backline leaders.

3) versus elite lists with scary melee like DG, big bugs, etc

Storm shield leader, storm shield blackshield, 2x HTHs, combimelta

So, I've been toying with the idea of starting up a Deathwatch kill team. From assorted tinkering with Battlescribe, I've come up with the following possible list:

Watch Sergeant- combi-melta, xenophase blade, Leader- 22
Blackshield- boltgun, power maul, Combat - 18
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, Heavy- 18
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14

Total: 100

The idea when I first made this team was to emphasize numbers and that sweet, sweet special ammunition boltgun fire. After looking at some of the ideas being thrown around on this board, however, I'm considering the following:
-ditching the combi-melta on the Sergeant for a regular boltgun
-possibly giving the Blackshield a storm shield
-giving one or two of the Veterans a shotgun and/or Stalker boltgun, to diversify my firepower a little.

As much as a power sword is a cheaper and more economical option than a xenophase blade, however, with the Commander supplement on the way, I anticipate running into a lot more things with invulnerable saves, so I'm going to keep the xenophase blade for now. Besides, it looks cooler.

Any thoughts/criticisms?

Commanders is an expansion, and thus may not always be in play. Still Thousand Sons and Harlies are top tier and have INV saves, so the Xenophase blade is useful. You may want to give the sergeant a storm shield and make him dedicated CC. You'll want the 3+ INV save as KT encourages you to hunt Leaders.

Similarly, the Blackshield is better with the storm shield @ 21pts.

DW Gunner w/ Frag Cannon = 21pts. Expensive, but worth it, especially against regular melee KTs (not Harlies). Please charge me and take 2d6 Str 6 auto hits. Usually your opponent will do their damndest to deadzone this gunner and with good reason.

Here's the 5 man Fortis KT I used last Sunday versus 'nids. 100pts even. Reiver's extra equipment was not useful in that scenario. Blackshield was MVP surviving 4 turns of HtH, then killing the Tyranid Warrior Leader for the win. (Assassinate Mission)

Watch Sergeant- Storm Shield, xenophase blade, 22 Leader
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, 18 Heavy
Blackshield: PS & Storm Shield 21 Zealot
Primaris Reiver: HBP. CK, Grav Chute, Grapnel 18 Combat
DW Gunner w/ Frag Cannon = 21

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
So, I've been toying with the idea of starting up a Deathwatch kill team. From assorted tinkering with Battlescribe, I've come up with the following possible list:

Watch Sergeant- combi-melta, xenophase blade, Leader- 22
Blackshield- boltgun, power maul, Combat - 18
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, Heavy- 18
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14

Total: 100

The idea when I first made this team was to emphasize numbers and that sweet, sweet special ammunition boltgun fire. After looking at some of the ideas being thrown around on this board, however, I'm considering the following:
-ditching the combi-melta on the Sergeant for a regular boltgun
-possibly giving the Blackshield a storm shield
-giving one or two of the Veterans a shotgun and/or Stalker boltgun, to diversify my firepower a little.

As much as a power sword is a cheaper and more economical option than a xenophase blade, however, with the Commander supplement on the way, I anticipate running into a lot more things with invulnerable saves, so I'm going to keep the xenophase blade for now. Besides, it looks cooler.

Any thoughts/criticisms?

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
So, I've been toying with the idea of starting up a Deathwatch kill team. From assorted tinkering with Battlescribe, I've come up with the following possible list:

Watch Sergeant- combi-melta, xenophase blade, Leader- 22
Blackshield- boltgun, power maul, Combat - 18
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, Heavy- 18
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14

Total: 100

The idea when I first made this team was to emphasize numbers and that sweet, sweet special ammunition boltgun fire. After looking at some of the ideas being thrown around on this board, however, I'm considering the following:
-ditching the combi-melta on the Sergeant for a regular boltgun
-possibly giving the Blackshield a storm shield
-giving one or two of the Veterans a shotgun and/or Stalker boltgun, to diversify my firepower a little.

As much as a power sword is a cheaper and more economical option than a xenophase blade, however, with the Commander supplement on the way, I anticipate running into a lot more things with invulnerable saves, so I'm going to keep the xenophase blade for now. Besides, it looks cooler.

Any thoughts/criticisms?

IMO the list has two issues: 1, leader is going to get picked off if he's not either long range or protected by a storm shield/Primaris extra wound. 2, boltgun vets are real bad at killing things. Like real real bad. Until you've played KT a few times you won't get an appreciation for just how good multi damage weapons are, even against one wound chumps.

Especially if you're looking at a campaign where your models are looking to get more expensive, you'll basically always be rolling 5-man squads. Just an example alternative to what you've got here...

Sgt with Xenophase and SS - 22 Leader
Blackshield with Maul and SS - 21 Veteran
Veteran Gunner with Infernus - 18 Heavy
Veteran with Combi-Plasma - 18 Sniper
Veteran Gunner with Frag Cannon - 21 Fireteam

Blackshield and leader roll up and be a huge distraction (blackshield is a Veteran just to use Adaptive tactics plus the scout forward thing for 12+D6" move before the game starts), the rest of the team can all put out tons of hurt against either hordes by popping off all the multi-target versions of their guns, or elites by going into multi-damage/mortal wound mode.

Blackshield and leader roll up and be a huge distraction (blackshield is a Veteran just to use Adaptive tactics plus the scout forward thing for 12+D6" move before the game starts).

Could you please explain this?

 RedizDead wrote:

Blackshield and leader roll up and be a huge distraction (blackshield is a Veteran just to use Adaptive tactics plus the scout forward thing for 12+D6" move before the game starts).

Could you please explain this?

In the Scouting phase, choose "5" - Take Forward Positions. Move the veteran 6".

Before the first turn begins, use 1cp for the Veteran tactic "Adaptive Tactics". Advance the veteran 6+d6".

In the first movement phase, the Veteran (who is a blackshield) can then charge and re-roll the result if he wants to because Blackshields get that natively.

The biggest downside I've found with Deathwatch is their glass cannon nature. at the end of the day you're only 5 space marine bodies, and having a 6th (or a few extra Primaris wounds) rarely makes a big difference. What does make a big difference against many matchups is that veteran specialist plowing headfirst into the enemy lines turn one yelling "shoot me I have a storm shiiiiiiiield!"

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
Per the Errata Primaris can get an Auspex now. Makes a primaris sgt leader an even more interesting option.

RAW though I'm pretty sure the Intercessor Auspex doesn't work for Primaris Marines, for the same reason Primaris Deathwatch can't use the regular Adeptus Astartes stratagems.

It says "Adeptus Astartes model within 3"

Deathwatch lose the Adeptus Astartes keyword.

Interestingly, Deathwatch Veterans still maintain the Adeptus Astartes keyword, though it isn't their 'Faction keyword' (it's listed in the other keywords section). Intercessors and Reivers replace the faction keyword with Deathwatch, but don't have Adeptus Astartes in the other keyword section. Ultimately doesn't matter, because auspex says to "choose another Adeptus Astartes model", and you can't have 'another' without having 'one' to begin with.

Sadly still isn't clear if Deathwatch are supposed to gain access to Auspex or not...so yeah, gonna need to send in the question again lol

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Primaris Intercessor Sgt with Auspex is 17pts.

21. Bolt Rifle and Bolt Pistol are 2 points each.

the_scotsman wrote:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
So, I've been toying with the idea of starting up a Deathwatch kill team. From assorted tinkering with Battlescribe, I've come up with the following possible list:

Watch Sergeant- combi-melta, xenophase blade, Leader- 22
Blackshield- boltgun, power maul, Combat - 18
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, Heavy- 18
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14

Total: 100

The idea when I first made this team was to emphasize numbers and that sweet, sweet special ammunition boltgun fire. After looking at some of the ideas being thrown around on this board, however, I'm considering the following:
-ditching the combi-melta on the Sergeant for a regular boltgun
-possibly giving the Blackshield a storm shield
-giving one or two of the Veterans a shotgun and/or Stalker boltgun, to diversify my firepower a little.

As much as a power sword is a cheaper and more economical option than a xenophase blade, however, with the Commander supplement on the way, I anticipate running into a lot more things with invulnerable saves, so I'm going to keep the xenophase blade for now. Besides, it looks cooler.

Any thoughts/criticisms?

IMO the list has two issues: 1, leader is going to get picked off if he's not either long range or protected by a storm shield/Primaris extra wound. 2, boltgun vets are real bad at killing things. Like real real bad. Until you've played KT a few times you won't get an appreciation for just how good multi damage weapons are, even against one wound chumps.

Especially if you're looking at a campaign where your models are looking to get more expensive, you'll basically always be rolling 5-man squads. Just an example alternative to what you've got here...

Sgt with Xenophase and SS - 22 Leader
Blackshield with Maul and SS - 21 Veteran
Veteran Gunner with Infernus - 18 Heavy
Veteran with Combi-Plasma - 18 Sniper
Veteran Gunner with Frag Cannon - 21 Fireteam

Blackshield and leader roll up and be a huge distraction (blackshield is a Veteran just to use Adaptive tactics plus the scout forward thing for 12+D6" move before the game starts), the rest of the team can all put out tons of hurt against either hordes by popping off all the multi-target versions of their guns, or elites by going into multi-damage/mortal wound mode.

Hmm, just out of curiosity, what makes special ammo boltguns so terrible? Is it that they get affected too badly by negative to hit modifiers, or is it just that they don't do nearly enough damage? Otherwise, the overall impression I got from your summary is that Deathwatch can't and shouldn't play the numbers game, and that you need to big with wargear on them or go home.

With this in mind...I admit, I like your list. It also means I can comfortably do an effective KT from a single Deathwatch box, rather than scrounge around for a 6th Marine.

Ancestral Hamster wrote:Commanders is an expansion, and thus may not always be in play. Still Thousand Sons and Harlies are top tier and have INV saves, so the Xenophase blade is useful. You may want to give the sergeant a storm shield and make him dedicated CC. You'll want the 3+ INV save as KT encourages you to hunt Leaders.

Similarly, the Blackshield is better with the storm shield @ 21pts.

DW Gunner w/ Frag Cannon = 21pts. Expensive, but worth it, especially against regular melee KTs (not Harlies). Please charge me and take 2d6 Str 6 auto hits. Usually your opponent will do their damndest to deadzone this gunner and with good reason.

Here's the 5 man Fortis KT I used last Sunday versus 'nids. 100pts even. Reiver's extra equipment was not useful in that scenario. Blackshield was MVP surviving 4 turns of HtH, then killing the Tyranid Warrior Leader for the win. (Assassinate Mission)

Watch Sergeant- Storm Shield, xenophase blade, 22 Leader
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, 18 Heavy
Blackshield: PS & Storm Shield 21 Zealot
Primaris Reiver: HBP. CK, Grav Chute, Grapnel 18 Combat
DW Gunner w/ Frag Cannon = 21

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
So, I've been toying with the idea of starting up a Deathwatch kill team. From assorted tinkering with Battlescribe, I've come up with the following possible list:

Watch Sergeant- combi-melta, xenophase blade, Leader- 22
Blackshield- boltgun, power maul, Combat - 18
Veteran Gunner- infernus heavy bolter, Heavy- 18
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14
Veteran- boltgun- 14

Total: 100

The idea when I first made this team was to emphasize numbers and that sweet, sweet special ammunition boltgun fire. After looking at some of the ideas being thrown around on this board, however, I'm considering the following:
-ditching the combi-melta on the Sergeant for a regular boltgun
-possibly giving the Blackshield a storm shield
-giving one or two of the Veterans a shotgun and/or Stalker boltgun, to diversify my firepower a little.

As much as a power sword is a cheaper and more economical option than a xenophase blade, however, with the Commander supplement on the way, I anticipate running into a lot more things with invulnerable saves, so I'm going to keep the xenophase blade for now. Besides, it looks cooler.

Any thoughts/criticisms?

Out of curiosity, how good do you find the Reiver to be? Obviously I'm testing the waters before I get any Primaris stuff for my possible DW.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
Out of curiosity, how good do you find the Reiver to be? Obviously I'm testing the waters before I get any Primaris stuff for my possible DW.

Still early days, as that was the 1st game I've fielded him. The idea is to get the superior mobility of grapnel and grav chute, but that was't relevant in that game, and against 'nids, the -1 Ld penalty is useless. When the reivers see more action, I'll post. (I've built two.)

So we're now onto the second round of our Killteam campaign, points increase to 125 from 100. Won the first round.

Core Team
Intercessor Sgt, Leader Lvl 2 (Resourceful, Inspiring), Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword 26pts
Intercessor Gunner, Demo Lvl 2 (Breacher, Grenadier), Stalker Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Aux Grenade Launcher 24pts
Intercessor, Sniper Lvl 3 (Marksman, Sharpshooter, Eagle-Eye), Stalker Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 27pts
Intercessor, Comms Lvl 2 (Scanner, Expert), Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 23pts

Fireteam
Intercessor, Fireteam Lvl 1, Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 19pts
Intercessor, Fireteam Lvl 1, Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 19pts

May add in a Combat specialist Reiver Sgt

 Rolsheen wrote:
So we're now onto the second round of our Killteam campaign, points increase to 125 from 100. Won the first round.

Core Team
Intercessor Sgt, Leader Lvl 2 (Resourceful, Inspiring), Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword 26pts
Intercessor Gunner, Demo Lvl 2 (Breacher, Grenadier), Stalker Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Aux Grenade Launcher 24pts
Intercessor, Sniper Lvl 3 (Marksman, Sharpshooter, Eagle-Eye), Stalker Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 27pts
Intercessor, Comms Lvl 2 (Scanner, Expert), Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 23pts

Fireteam
Intercessor, Fireteam Lvl 1, Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 19pts
Intercessor, Fireteam Lvl 1, Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol 19pts

May add in a Combat specialist Reiver Sgt

Wow, fairly basic layout. No frag canon or infernus bolter, storm shields, etc I really like it.

Has anyone found a way to make Deathwatch work against Grey Knights? They seem to be my consistent achilles heel in games. Getting matched up against them again in our campaign, I took a mostly Primaris team to try and combat the mortal wounds, tried to use the "my armor is contempt" stratagem three times, and I still had a man OOA every psychic phase until the end of the game.

List was

Reiver Sarge, Carbine/Knife - Leader
Intercessor Gunner, Bolt Rifle/Aux Nade/Auspex - Demo
Vet Gunner, Frag Cannon - Comms
Vet, Combi-plas, Power Sword - Sniper
Reiver, Knife/Pistol - Fireteam

My opponent had what I would consider to be a pretty casual GK list with a mix of weapons, one psycannon one psilencer one combat specialist with a hammer and two guys with power sword and power staff. I started with the reiver out front to tank but he used Forward Positions and won first turn to finagle a guy getting closest to my frag cannon, instagibbed him with smite. Wounded both reiver and sarge turn 1 with bolter fire, smited the sarge next turn. Psycannon killed the sniper, smite killed the regular reiver, and then all the rest of the fire combined took down the intercessor just before we started checking for scoring.

I did get pretty unlucky (he never failed an injury roll the entire game, and my turn 1 and 2 I caused 3 flesh wounds) but the damn smite seems just impossible to deal with without any kind of defenses or chaff models.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:


Out of curiosity, how good do you find the Reiver to be? Obviously I'm testing the waters before I get any Primaris stuff for my possible DW.

Stock Reivers are meh, but the Riever sgt. is a customizeable disruptor unit that can pack some serious melee bite without needing to eat a Specialist slot. Go Carbine + Knife + gizmos and you've got a boyo that can put out 30 inch shots, has 4 attacks and can do some nasty things with terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Has anyone found a way to make Deathwatch work against Grey Knights? They seem to be my consistent achilles heel in games. Getting matched up against them again in our campaign, I took a mostly Primaris team to try and combat the mortal wounds, tried to use the "my armor is contempt" stratagem three times, and I still had a man OOA every psychic phase until the end of the game.

List was

Reiver Sarge, Carbine/Knife - Leader
Intercessor Gunner, Bolt Rifle/Aux Nade/Auspex - Demo
Vet Gunner, Frag Cannon - Comms
Vet, Combi-plas, Power Sword - Sniper
Reiver, Knife/Pistol - Fireteam

My opponent had what I would consider to be a pretty casual GK list with a mix of weapons, one psycannon one psilencer one combat specialist with a hammer and two guys with power sword and power staff. I started with the reiver out front to tank but he used Forward Positions and won first turn to finagle a guy getting closest to my frag cannon, instagibbed him with smite. Wounded both reiver and sarge turn 1 with bolter fire, smited the sarge next turn. Psycannon killed the sniper, smite killed the regular reiver, and then all the rest of the fire combined took down the intercessor just before we started checking for scoring.

I did get pretty unlucky (he never failed an injury roll the entire game, and my turn 1 and 2 I caused 3 flesh wounds) but the damn smite seems just impossible to deal with without any kind of defenses or chaff models.

From playing against an AdMech gentlemen who stacked tankbusting sniper rifles, I'll say that "Only in Death" is worth its weight in gold. Yeah he's gonna take a model OOA every turn, but that guy gets to shoot at least once (if not twice if you time it right). Accept that you're gonna take casualties, but make every one count as you make the other player bleed for every model that goes down. GKs weakness is its model count. If you make it a battle of attrition you've got a fighting chance, especially if you take his Heavies out first.

Sterling191 wrote:

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:


Out of curiosity, how good do you find the Reiver to be? Obviously I'm testing the waters before I get any Primaris stuff for my possible DW.

Stock Reivers are meh, but the Riever sgt. is a customizeable disruptor unit that can pack some serious melee bite without needing to eat a Specialist slot. Go Carbine + Knife + gizmos and you've got a boyo that can put out 30 inch shots, has 4 attacks and can do some nasty things with terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Has anyone found a way to make Deathwatch work against Grey Knights? They seem to be my consistent achilles heel in games. Getting matched up against them again in our campaign, I took a mostly Primaris team to try and combat the mortal wounds, tried to use the "my armor is contempt" stratagem three times, and I still had a man OOA every psychic phase until the end of the game.

List was

Reiver Sarge, Carbine/Knife - Leader
Intercessor Gunner, Bolt Rifle/Aux Nade/Auspex - Demo
Vet Gunner, Frag Cannon - Comms
Vet, Combi-plas, Power Sword - Sniper
Reiver, Knife/Pistol - Fireteam

My opponent had what I would consider to be a pretty casual GK list with a mix of weapons, one psycannon one psilencer one combat specialist with a hammer and two guys with power sword and power staff. I started with the reiver out front to tank but he used Forward Positions and won first turn to finagle a guy getting closest to my frag cannon, instagibbed him with smite. Wounded both reiver and sarge turn 1 with bolter fire, smited the sarge next turn. Psycannon killed the sniper, smite killed the regular reiver, and then all the rest of the fire combined took down the intercessor just before we started checking for scoring.

I did get pretty unlucky (he never failed an injury roll the entire game, and my turn 1 and 2 I caused 3 flesh wounds) but the damn smite seems just impossible to deal with without any kind of defenses or chaff models.

From playing against an AdMech gentlemen who stacked tankbusting sniper rifles, I'll say that "Only in Death" is worth its weight in gold. Yeah he's gonna take a model OOA every turn, but that guy gets to shoot at least once (if not twice if you time it right). Accept that you're gonna take casualties, but make every one count as you make the other player bleed for every model that goes down. GKs weakness is its model count. If you make it a battle of attrition you've got a fighting chance, especially if you take his Heavies out first.

Shoot, you're right, I'd totally forgotten about that Tactic when I was trying to keep my guys from getting wounded in the first place. At the very least my Frag Cannon could have completely obliterated the guy that took him out turn 1, that probably would have made a difference. I primarily used my points attempting to use Armor is Contempt (and failing it every time) and Specialist strats on the guys I wanted to keep leveling up. Other than that, I just used Tactical Withdrawal a couple of times to kite out the Thunder Hammer. He took two turns to take out despite putting basically all my fire into him because I could not for the life of me roll an out of action, even with overcharged plasma and krak grenades from my demoman.

the_scotsman wrote:

Shoot, you're right, I'd totally forgotten about that Tactic when I was trying to keep my guys from getting wounded in the first place. At the very least my Frag Cannon could have completely obliterated the guy that took him out turn 1, that probably would have made a difference. I primarily used my points attempting to use Armor is Contempt (and failing it every time) and Specialist strats on the guys I wanted to keep leveling up. Other than that, I just used Tactical Withdrawal a couple of times to kite out the Thunder Hammer. He took two turns to take out despite putting basically all my fire into him because I could not for the life of me roll an out of action, even with overcharged plasma and krak grenades from my demoman.

Bonus points if you keep your squad tight such that your Commspex fella can boost the dying fella so that he's got a hit on 2 wound on 2 countervolley.

Rivers with Tac Withdrawl are *hilarious*. I've tied up 6+ models for several rounds in more than one game with careful use of that strategem. As for Demos, I wouldnt put them on anything other than a Frag Vet or SIA Intercessor. 2+ wounding bolt rifles are exquisite when you can double tap from across the board at AP-2.

Sterling191 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Shoot, you're right, I'd totally forgotten about that Tactic when I was trying to keep my guys from getting wounded in the first place. At the very least my Frag Cannon could have completely obliterated the guy that took him out turn 1, that probably would have made a difference. I primarily used my points attempting to use Armor is Contempt (and failing it every time) and Specialist strats on the guys I wanted to keep leveling up. Other than that, I just used Tactical Withdrawal a couple of times to kite out the Thunder Hammer. He took two turns to take out despite putting basically all my fire into him because I could not for the life of me roll an out of action, even with overcharged plasma and krak grenades from my demoman.

Bonus points if you keep your squad tight such that your Commspex fella can boost the dying fella so that he's got a hit on 2 wound on 2 countervolley.

Rivers with Tac Withdrawl are *hilarious*. I've tied up 6+ models for several rounds in more than one game with careful use of that strategem. As for Demos, I wouldnt put them on anything other than a Frag Vet or SIA Intercessor. 2+ wounding bolt rifles are exquisite when you can double tap from across the board at AP-2.

Oh yeah, my demoman is the intercessor with the goofy nade launcher. That setup plus auspex plus the Grenadier level 2 upgrade is hilarious. Nobody expects the across-the-board cover ignoring krak grenade!

Sadly it's not quite as good as it used to be for DW because of now being affected by long-range penalties. A Kraken doubletap will do better against GEQs now, but it certainly has a niche against MEQs and other hard targets. Also the multi-damage profile certainly has value, but I'm very loathe to bet on a single shot if I can avoid it.

Hey people!

Im new to DeathWatch and as Im slowly building up an army Ill obviously start with KillTeam (got the DeathWatch start collecting already). Heres a small list I came up with.


++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [97pts] ++

+ Configuration +

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

+ Leader +

Intercessor Sergeant [21pts]: Auspex, Bolt pistol, Bolt rifle, Chainsword, Leader

+ Specialists +

Reiver Sergeant [21pts]: Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Grav-chute, Heavy bolt pistol, Veteran

Veteran [15pts]: Deathwatch shotgun, Demolitions

Watch Sergeant [19pts]: Boltgun, Xenophase blade, Zealot

+ Non-specialists +

Veteran Gunner [21pts]: Deathwatch frag cannon

++ Total: [97pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

3points down...dont know where to put them in (maybe melta on the watch sergeant?)
and about the sergeant...Im not that sold on him but I like the blade AND I dont know what to take else...

Any suggestions?

Auspex can be purchased by Deathwatch, but only used by the Adeptus Astartes faction.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Auspex can be purchased by Deathwatch, but only used by the Adeptus Astartes faction.

Deathwatch all have AA keyword. Primaris lose it though. But you can use it on all the DW vets, etc.

Had a game against Admech with a slightly changed list than posted above

Frag Canon is great I love it...So are primaris (riever as leader is great)
Not so sure about combat primaris but better than nothing
Infernus Heavy Canon is...ok? I just dont have luck with D6 weapons

Any body had a game with commanders?

 Mordekiem wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Auspex can be purchased by Deathwatch, but only used by the Adeptus Astartes faction.

Deathwatch all have AA keyword. Primaris lose it though. But you can use it on all the DW vets, etc.

Veterans have the keyword, but the Primaris do not. Since the Intercessor is the only one that can actually buy the Auspex, and it specifically says "another Adeptus Astartes model" which the Primaris is not, can it be said to actually work? Am I overthinking this?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Any body had a game with commanders?

I played one recently against an opponent that had a primaris libby. I opted not to use a commander because I didnt have any models with one.

Pretty uneventful, he buffed one guy, fleshwounded another with a smite, then I combi-meltad him and he died.

with my opponent outnumbered nearly 2-1 at that point it was a pretty onesided game.

My hot take is that pretty much only the lower cost commanders are really ever going to be successfully integrated into games. Anything sub-50 points is a good addon to make a higher points game more interesting, but the 120+ point commanders are always going to give a bad taste one way or another. Either it'll be a totally invincible behemoth carving through your whole army, or it'll get punked by a player tailoring against it with tons of high damage weapons.

And of course as per usual their inclusion heavily favors those armies that ARENT super limited in what they can bring. If my opponent wanted to bring some super crazy beefed up 200pt commander, I could say "Ok, my list is 12 veterans with combi meltas, come at me bro." No matter how many points you have, a Dark Eldar list gets 1 blaster, 1 dark lance, and 2 blast pistols (I guess 3 if the Archon can take one). And those are on squishtastic T3 5+ bodies. Playing Eldar, good luck, you got your 2 fusions and your bright lance and you're done.

Lemondish wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Auspex can be purchased by Deathwatch, but only used by the Adeptus Astartes faction.

Deathwatch all have AA keyword. Primaris lose it though. But you can use it on all the DW vets, etc.

Veterans have the keyword, but the Primaris do not. Since the Intercessor is the only one that can actually buy the Auspex, and it specifically says "another Adeptus Astartes model" which the Primaris is not, can it be said to actually work? Am I overthinking this?

Personally, I feel it was an error they overlooked while trying to fix/add other things. I'm guessing our group will probably ignore it since it makes no sense. That said, if you play strictly RAW then having one primaris is no big deal, but if you have more than one then it breaks it.

Anyone run the Intercessor Sergeant as a Combat specialist with the power sword / bolt rifle loadout?

Been having a lot of success with my Primaris 5-pack, but find myself a bit lacking in melee bite against MEQ type targets, and four S4 power sword swings seems rather nasty. It wouldnt take much in the way of reconfiguring the list to fit this specific setup in.

Sterling191 wrote:
Anyone run the Intercessor Sergeant as a Combat specialist with the power sword / bolt rifle loadout?

Been having a lot of success with my Primaris 5-pack, but find myself a bit lacking in melee bite against MEQ type targets, and four S4 power sword swings seems rather nasty. It wouldnt take much in the way of reconfiguring the list to fit this specific setup in.

So I gave this a go in two league games tonight and...wow. Between both games the one model put something like 55 points of enemies out of action while only losing one wound. I want to give it some more testing before committing, but damn is it a promising first run.

Sterling191 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Anyone run the Intercessor Sergeant as a Combat specialist with the power sword / bolt rifle loadout?

Been having a lot of success with my Primaris 5-pack, but find myself a bit lacking in melee bite against MEQ type targets, and four S4 power sword swings seems rather nasty. It wouldnt take much in the way of reconfiguring the list to fit this specific setup in.

So I gave this a go in two league games tonight and...wow. Between both games the one model put something like 55 points of enemies out of action while only losing one wound. I want to give it some more testing before committing, but damn is it a promising first run.

I run that sarge as part of my normal marine KT and he’s one of my MVPs. The bolt rife lets him contribute if I need to bunker up and gunline, or support downfield as I move up. The sword does a good job carving up things when needed.

The extra wound from being a primaris gives him a bit of durability.

Plus he looks cool. Always a plus.

 Nevelon wrote:

I run that sarge as part of my normal marine KT and he’s one of my MVPs. The bolt rife lets him contribute if I need to bunker up and gunline, or support downfield as I move up. The sword does a good job carving up things when needed.

The extra wound from being a primaris gives him a bit of durability.

Plus he looks cool. Always a plus.

Yeah, the sheer versatility of the loadout is really enticing me. Had to give up my Demo Intercessor to make it fit, but in most cases Demos arent doing much for Fortis Deathwatch anyway. Really want to get some games in against MEQs to test it out in different parameters, but it's at the very least earned a spot on the Command Roster.

I may have to build up an Intercessor with sword then it seems..

Gonna try Commanders, what do you think of this list?

++ Kill Team List (Deathwatch) [197pts] ++

+ Configuration +

List Configuration: Matched Play: Kill Team

+ Commander +

Watch Master [125pts]: Strategist

+ Leader +

Watch Sergeant [17pts]: Leader, Stalker pattern boltgun

+ Specialists +

Veteran [19pts]: Combat, Heavy thunder hammer

Veteran [15pts]: Deathwatch shotgun, Demolitions

+ Non-specialists +

Veteran Gunner [21pts]: Deathwatch frag cannon

++ Total: [197pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

You're almost certainly better off going with a Librarian IMO. A lot of the Watchmaster's cost is his Aura, which now eats up your CPs to use.

I have only him at the moment, that’s why
I get your argument, this is why I went Strategist with him.

I actually think the chaplain may be the strongest dw commander. He’s cheaper and has some interesting bashing potential. You’d want a more melee focused KT though

I'm going with the captain as I just can't stomach that price point on the Master. He seems solid with a Power Sword and Auto Bolt advancing with the team. Leaves room for 7 well armed Vets.

I'm halfway through painting this list:

Watch Sergeant - Combiplasma, Xenophase
Veteran Gunner - Frag Cannon
Veteran Gunner - Infernus Heavy Bolter
Veteran - Shield, Power Sword
Veteran, Shield, Power Maul

Sometime soon I'll get another box so I can have two frag cannons and make a Commanders list.

For you guys who are using Primaris over Veterans, do you feel like there's a benefit to running Primaris in a Deathwatch kill team as opposed to an Adeptus Astartes kill team? I have an all Primaris AA kill team as well (with that versatile power sword Intercessor Sergeant) but I'm curious as to why you would include them in a Deathwatch list.

Reivers for mobility, but so far they have been such edge cases* it has not been worth it. Better a DWV with power weapon and storm shield. Have dropped the reivers from my store campaign list.

*Roughly 1 in 12 games I've played the mobility should be advantageous, but it hasn't panned out.

 Luciferian wrote:
For you guys who are using Primaris over Veterans, do you feel like there's a benefit to running Primaris in a Deathwatch kill team as opposed to an Adeptus Astartes kill team? I have an all Primaris AA kill team as well (with that versatile power sword Intercessor Sergeant) but I'm curious as to why you would include them in a Deathwatch list.

I imagine that would be very dependent on terrain. I haven't played with Deathwatch yet, but I've played around 20 games with four other kill teams and from what I've experienced things do get stuck in early on... all of the models either have the range to sit and shoot or are charging or sitting on objectives in the first turn or so. So that makes sense.

If you can get this issue of Warhammer Conquest it basically has a Primaris killteam included...

 Luciferian wrote:

For you guys who are using Primaris over Veterans, do you feel like there's a benefit to running Primaris in a Deathwatch kill team as opposed to an Adeptus Astartes kill team? I have an all Primaris AA kill team as well (with that versatile power sword Intercessor Sergeant) but I'm curious as to why you would include them in a Deathwatch list.

Range and innate AP on the standard bolt rifle. With SIA it's a monster.

That said, my LGS crew has taken to playing the NOVA Kill Team missions over the last few weeks, and those things are a bullet to the head for a 5-man kill team (of any flavor).

Yep, objective-based games are pretty tough on such a small unit count. The favorite mission type among my friends so far has been Recover intelligence, and it's pretty easy to control an objective if you have a high model count, as long as you don't get wiped out. It's still fun for elite teams though because the goal pretty much becomes taking as many bodies off the board as possible as quickly as you can.

I haven't been following Death Watch news much. Is there a consensus on whether an Intercessor's Auspex would work on a regular Death Watch Veteran? To clarify, is the Adeptus Astartes in Auspex refer to the faction or the keyword?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I haven't been following Death Watch news much. Is there a consensus on whether an Intercessor's Auspex would work on a regular Death Watch Veteran? To clarify, is the Adeptus Astartes in Auspex refer to the faction or the keyword?

If I recall, RAW they can use the auspex on regular DW, but not Primaris DW. Though if there is ever a FAQ or Errata I am sure they will fix it so DW Primaris have the proper keyword.

Starting up an Arena Tourney at my LGS, and I have a fluffy TAC list in mind. I'm gonna start with these 5, and expand into Primaris later on. Aside from people yelling "Wheres your hammer bro?", does anything really stand out?

Leader: Watch Sgt w/ Xenoblade/Combi-Melta (22)
Heavy: Vet Gunner w/ Infernus (18)
Zealot: Blackshield w/ SS/PS (21)
Sniper: Vet w/ Combi-Plasma (18)
Vet Fireteam: Frag Cannon (21)

I put the PS on the zealot to capitalize on S5 at -3AP. I've heard the Veteran Turn 1 Charge argument, but I think I'll save my CP for rerolls.

Sgt is meant to be ranged, but spare points went into my "Don't-even-think-about-it" Melta/Xenoblade deterrent.

Sniper Plasma speaks for itself...

Seems fine to me. As for the hammer ... not a big fan myself. Accuracy first, damage 2nd for my builds. The Rival Chapters Tactic is a big friend to your Plasma-armed vets.

Death to the Xenos!!

I'd swap the Frag to Heavy. Better accuracy with a flat D2 weapon is ace.

Sterling191 wrote:
I'd swap the Frag to Heavy. Better accuracy with a flat D2 weapon is ace.

Frag cannon is for backend objectives, while the Infernus needs Heavy just to stay mobile.

I considered taking one as demo, but settled on a sniper combi-plasma instead.

This one little kill team is going to slowly become an entire Watch Company with all the different Vet loadouts I'll end up trying...

Paedrig wrote:
This one little kill team is going to slowly become an entire Watch Company with all the different Vet loadouts I'll end up trying...

Magnets are your friend, brother. It's cheaper in the long run.

+++ Thought for the Day +++

The only mercy for the Alien is death.

Hoping we get rules for the new Vanguard snipers.

Foxfyre wrote:
No, you do all the attacks in sequence and one at a time on a per weapon basis.

So 4 attacks, 2 weapons, split the attacks per weapon. Roll to hit with power sword A - Start the sequence, roll to hit, if it hits roll to wound, if it wounds roll save, if save fails then roll injury (injury roll gets a flesh wound) and discard all further attacks from that weapon as per page 31.
Now proceed to roll to hit with power sword B, sequence begins again, first attack misses, second attack hits, wounds and save is failed, roll injury and take into account the previous result (flesh wound). No more attacks, sequence over.

No.

P34

If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see below), it can split them between eligible target models as you wish. Declare how you will split the model’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving onto the next.

If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close comb atattacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish– declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

Errata (note the crucial change to the wording here)

‘If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, any attacks still allocated to this model are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model

Note that when shooting, unfired weapons do not have any attacks allocated at this stage and so those attacks are not lost.

This may be thread necromancy, but this is the best fit for my questions

I'm just starting Kill Team and have lots of DW models from a failed attempt at building a 40k DW army. I have the Getting Started box, and Kill Team Cassius box. I also assembled a few ETB primaris and a reiver for the beginnings of a Primaris squad. But they don't have a lot of options. Right now, this is the list I am trying to paint up.

-Intercessor Sergeant: leader, bolt rifle, auspex
-Intercessor gunner: comms, bolt rifle, aux grenade launcher (which I need to model)
-Veteran: combat, power maul, storm shield
-Veteran gunner: heavy, Infernus heavy bolter
-Veteran gunner, DW fragcannon

I've thought about switching the models for the Intercessor comms guy and the leader, because I used th 30th Anniversary marine, and he has what could be a power sword strapped to his waist. Plus he looks fancy enough.

Based on reading here, I've assembled a shotgun weilding vet gunner and a black shield with power sword and storm shield.

If you can, you may want to magnetize. I find that I want to switch off between power sword and maul depending on who I'm facing. The former for MEQ and the latter for GEQ (and surprisingly, Death Guard).

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Based on reading here, I've assembled a shotgun weilding vet gunner and a black shield with power sword and storm shield.

I like having each model be a character. And with such a small.kodel count, I don't mind having multiple models.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
This may be thread necromancy, but this is the best fit for my questions

I'm just starting Kill Team and have lots of DW models from a failed attempt at building a 40k DW army. I have the Getting Started box, and Kill Team Cassius box. I also assembled a few ETB primaris and a reiver for the beginnings of a Primaris squad. But they don't have a lot of options. Right now, this is the list I am trying to paint up.

-Intercessor Sergeant: leader, bolt rifle, auspex
-Intercessor gunner: comms, bolt rifle, aux grenade launcher (which I need to model)
-Veteran: combat, power maul, storm shield
-Veteran gunner: heavy, Infernus heavy bolter
-Veteran gunner, DW fragcannon

I've thought about switching the models for the Intercessor comms guy and the leader, because I used th 30th Anniversary marine, and he has what could be a power sword strapped to his waist. Plus he looks fancy enough.

You should make also some power sword / storm shield vets as well. They come in very handy to have on your roster. Statistically, its actually better to just go with the power sword except in very few cases.

If you're running roster style, I'd reccomend having 4 storm shield guys, 2 with power sword and 2 with maul. That way if you run up against a plasma spam team, you just go with all melee and charge into his face.

Yeah, I made a black shield with power sword and shield. That gives me one power maul/shield and one power sword/shield.

So make two more, huh? Hmmm... i have lots of shoulder pads.

So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

Elites doesn't help Deathwatch that much. However, Vanguard Veterans with Jumppacks, while pricey, give us a needed manuevability boost. Take the Storm Shield; the INV is needed.

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

In case it confuses someone reading this - DW don't get supressors, just jumpack vanguards and terminators.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Elites doesn't help Deathwatch that much. However, Vanguard Veterans with Jumppacks, while pricey, give us a needed manuevability boost. Take the Storm Shield; the INV is needed.

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

So jump pack, shield and what? Chainsword, maul?

Depends on who you face. For MEQ, Power sword, for GEQ Power Maul. The Vanguard Sgt. can take a Relic Blade which is Damage 2, AP -3. This really only works at the 125pt level or higher as the Vanguard Vet with Power Weapon, Combat Shield, and Jump Pack is 25pts. If given the Veteran Spec, he can use the Lvl 1 Tactic: Adaptive Tactics and try for a 1st turn Charge. It's a counter for Plasma spam.

Edit: Used Battlescribe to build a 100pt list; you can take the JP Vanguard and still have a 5 man team. The Leader is underarmed, so keep him safe. (List as built assuming opponent is GEQ, specifically AdMech).

Leader: Watch Sgt. with Boltgun and Power Maul 18pts.
Specialists:
Vanguard Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield, Jump-pack. VETERAN 25pts
Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield. COMBAT 19pts
Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield. ZEALOT 19pts
Fire Team:
Veteran with Power Maul, Combat Shield. 19pts

 Valhalla130 wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Elites doesn't help Deathwatch that much. However, Vanguard Veterans with Jumppacks, while pricey, give us a needed manuevability boost. Take the Storm Shield; the INV is needed.

 argonak wrote:
So I just looked over elites....wtf? The space marine stuff has wacky point costs, and most of it is some expensive to not bother with. I could see bringing a suppressor if I had one, but the rest....doesn’t seem like it has value. Am I off base?

I was looking forward to terminators, but not at that price!

So jump pack, shield and what? Chainsword, maul?

How would you kit your Deathwatch out to face IG, space marines and grey knights?

There the only teams the guy I play has, and every game so far I've lost them all. I did go in and write a big thread not long ago but didn't get a great deal of help other than Comms and SIA. I'll leave it at that and see who gets back. I don't want to waste my time again.

Cheers.

What is the composition of those teams?

Also, I've only played against the first two, but successfully. That being said, the marine player did not bring appropriate anti-3+ armor weapons like Plasma guns or power swords, while I did.

A suggested MEQ list. 98/100pts
Leader:
Intercessor Sgt: Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword, Auspex 23pts
Specialists:
Veteran: Combi-Plasma. Comms 18pts.
Veteran: Combi-Plasma. Sniper 18pts.
Veteran Gunner: Infernus Heavy Bolter. Heavy 18pts
Fire Team:
Veteran Gunner: Frag Cannon. 21pts.

Tactics.
The Aupex and Comms are for the Infernus H-Bolter: Negate the Obscured penalty with the 1st and +1 to hit from the 2nd. Ideally this is at short range for the H-Bolter, and you have a 2+ on the target. Use Hellfire Shell (Tactics cost 1). Only 1 hit roll, but a successful hit does d3 Mortal Wounds. Have Tactical Re-Roll ready, or use Rival Chapters for the re-roll.

Originally the Sgt. had a Stalker Bolt Rifle, but it's Heavy, and the Sgt needs to keep pace with the Infernus gunner.

Plasma is for armor cracking, but do not overcharge unless you have the re-rolls. Both Tactical Re-Roll and Rival Chapters are your best friend here, and also the Sniper ability. That should take care of vanilla marines.

Against Grey Knights, stay out of range of the psibolt if possible. Fire at long range even though the Auspex/Comms Infernus combo is now only hitting on 3+, and plasma on 5+.

A suggested GEQ list. 98/100pts
Leader:
Intercessor Sgt: Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Auspex. 21pts
Specialists:
Black Shield: Power Maul, Storm Shield. 21pts. Zealot
Veteran: Power Maul, Storm Shield. 19pts. Combat
Veteran Gunner: Infernus Heavy Bolter. Heavy 18pts
Fire Team:
Veteran Gunner: Frag Cannon. 21pts.
Shooting is pretty much the same as above. While I've used Combat and Zealot before, I'm beginning to think Scout and Veteran might be better. IG is weak in HtH, and ideally you'll want to charge a Hot-Shot Volley gunner turn 1. A Veteran can do that under favorable conditions with Adaptive Tactics. Scouts are +2" movement with an Advance re-roll inherent, so he should be charging turn 2. As long as you can keep the anti-armor guns engaged, Deathwatch should have the edge. If the Guard do have Power Fists/Swords, that Tempestor Prime is the 2nd priority, but 1st is anti-armor guns. All you should need to do is go for the auto-fail nerve tests:kill the Ld 7 figures, then after 5 OoA, the IG will auto-shake.

Macabre Galatic wrote:
How would you kit your Deathwatch out to face IG, space marines and grey knights?

There the only teams the guy I play has, and every game so far I've lost them all. I did go in and write a big thread not long ago but didn't get a great deal of help other than Comms and SIA. I'll leave it at that and see who gets back. I don't want to waste my time again.

Cheers.

I'm guessing you would take different troops from your command roster. For IG, power maul and storm shield, and get in close as fast as possible. For marines, SIA. But that's from reading this thread and others like it.

I have yet to play my first game.

Continuing to read through elites, I’m really kinda stunned. The other factions have some really nice chapter traits to choose from, and deathwatch gets to re-roll wounds on a single enemy profile type. That’s pretty sad.

This book seems pretty unbalanced at first readheough. I hope I’m wrong.

GK is gonna be a game of keep away. You're gonna get mauled by double-taping psybolts if you let them get within 12". Use your superior SIA range to your advantage.

Stalker pattern boltguns on standard vets often get overlooked, but the capacity to put two shots out across the entire board should not be undervalued.

Similarly, for factions who you dont mind getting in close against, shotguns are worth their weight in gold. Flat 2 damage is absolutely terrifying because of injury roll mechanics.

 argonak wrote:
Continuing to read through elites, I’m really kinda stunned. The other factions have some really nice chapter traits to choose from, and deathwatch gets to re-roll wounds on a single enemy profile type. That’s pretty sad.

This book seems pretty unbalanced at first readheough. I hope I’m wrong.

You'll notice that, in general, factions that were particularly strong got less.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 argonak wrote:
Continuing to read through elites, I’m really kinda stunned. The other factions have some really nice chapter traits to choose from, and deathwatch gets to re-roll wounds on a single enemy profile type. That’s pretty sad.

This book seems pretty unbalanced at first readheough. I hope I’m wrong.

You'll notice that, in general, factions that were particularly strong got less.

Yeah, for a while there I felt like every other Kill Team player was making a Deathwatch kill team. I mean I get it, Deathwatch was one of the cheapest (money wise), fastest to build the models to get a very powerful and flexible army with the added bonus that they aren't half bad in full 40k currently. Heck, the months before Elites dropped, it was starting to get rare for regular Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines players to not say their kill team wasn't a count as Deathwatch one.

Maybe it is a little harsh, but I am not all that broken up about the players with $35 US power teams (Deathwatch and Harlequins mostly) not getting a whole lot. I would argue they were on the high end of the meta for relatively little effort, and it isn't like they fell to the bottom of tier from Elites. They just didn't gain all that much compared to the average faction which looking at Elites for adding power, only few factions actually got much anyways from what I have seen. Many of the Elites options don't really increase the relative effectiveness of many factions, just give them more options many times aren't particularly good in terms of effectiveness.

That actually kind of surprised me. It is entirely possible Kill Team is more balanced with Elites than without. I was sure that couldn't possibly be the case given the increase stuff which usually increases imbalance. I mean there are definitely a lot more poor choices now, but I think factions may be closer to being balanced against each other than they were before.

KILL TEAM ELITES
Deathwatch
Vanguard Veterans
-jump pack is mandatory, however, since the move and charge are all done in the same movement phase, I noticed little benefit from making them close combat oriented

HOWEVER

correct me if I am wrong, but looks like they can take TWO pistols ..

Vanguard Veteran - 2x plasma pistol - sniper specialization =23pts
(pair of grav pistols and demo spec is viable option as well vs MEQ )

im getting some interesting ideas here

I'm off too games night tonight. I'll let you know if I still suck ass or not. I've taken a few things on board, especially staying out of range from psy-bolt. Looking forward to seeing how my chainfist, heavy flamer terminator performs.

Good luck!

My reading agrees with yours. One can even take a pistol and Combat Shield for the INV. You do have a good point about the dual plasma pistol armed Sniper specialist.

As for why I'd arm Vanguard Veterans for CQC, is for me they'd replace the (total failures) Primaris Reivers in the rapid advance role for Missions that require such.

Gunrunner1775 wrote:
KILL TEAM ELITES
Deathwatch
Vanguard Veterans
-jump pack is mandatory, however, since the move and charge are all done in the same movement phase, I noticed little benefit from making them close combat oriented

HOWEVER

correct me if I am wrong, but looks like they can take TWO pistols ..

Vanguard Veteran - 2x plasma pistol - sniper specialization =23pts
(pair of grav pistols and demo spec is viable option as well vs MEQ )

im getting some interesting ideas here

try this one

Vanguard veteran with jump pack, 2x plasma pistols, sniper specialization (23 pts)
Vanguard veteran with jump pack, 2x grav pistols, demo specialization (21 pts)

(we play with super crazy amount of terrain on the board, a metric crap ton, 99.9% of shots will always be obscured)

This is examples of some of the terrain we have used in random kill team missions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Those pics are from one of the 4 player every man for himself kill team games

 Valhalla130 wrote:
Good luck!

I won my first game last night! It was space marines i was up against and we played shifting priorities. I won 5-2.

Here's the list I brought.

4 Intercessor 's + Leader Sergeant with chainsword = 86pts all with stalker rilfes
Demolitions - Veteran Gunner Frag Cannon 21pts
Veteran - Terminator Gunner Heavy Flamer and Chainfist 37pts
Heavy - Veteran Gunner - Infernus Heavy Bolter 18pts
Watch Sergeant - Xenophase blade 19pts
181pts

My opponent had just shy of 200pts and a big chunk of that was a terminator captain. I managed to take 3 wounds off him with the hell fire shell tactic from the Infernus Heavy Bolter and keep him tied up with my own terminator, which should have died in combat from the captain's relic blade but the dice were bad for us. The first kill came on turn 3 and the game ended on turn 4. The stalker rifles with ap2 against power and terminator armour sounds good but it didn't work out due to the dice rolling low. The Frag Cannon stayed alive but did nothing. I only lost one Intercessor which I'm happy with.

Only took me 6 games of getting destroyed to feel like I know enough to actually win.

Is it a good idea to take a oistol and storm shield?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or a stormbilter and shield, since elites lets us take those now.

On a vanguard? Pistol and shield is okay. Two plasma pistols is also nice.

How are you getting a storm bolter?

I'm not. I misunderstood the elites rules.

Hi guys!

I would like to resurrect this dormant thread and ask for an advice...

I am joining a local Kill Team Campaign next week and I need to build a 20-men + 1 Commander roster (can be updated couple of times during the campaign).
I came up with something, but since I played only a handful of games so far, I am not quite sure how optimised the list is or what can be upgraded.

COMMANDER
Captain in Terminator Armour - 86, Strategist: Storm bolter, Power sword

LEADERS
Watch sergeant - 18, Leader: BoltGun, Power maul, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Watch sergeant - 22, Leader: Xenophase blade, Storm shield, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Intercessor Sergeant - 20, Leader: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Intercessor Sergeant - 21, Leader: Auto bolt rifle, Bolt pistol, Auspex, Frag grenade, Krak grenade


SPECIALISTS
Intercessor - 20, Comms: Auto bolt rifle, Auspex, Bolt pistol, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran - 18, Comms: Combi-plasma, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran - 18, Sniper: Combi-plasma, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran Gunner - 18, Sniper: Infernus heavy bolter, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran Gunner - 18, Heavy: Infernus heavy bolter, Frag grenade, Krak grenade

Black shield - 21, Zealot: Power sword, Storm shield, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Black shield - 21, Zealot: Power maul, Storm shield, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Reiver Sergeant - 20, Combat: Bolt Carbine, Combat knife, Grapnel Launcher, Frag grenade, Krak grenade, Shock Grenade
Vanguard Veteran - 25, Veteran: Grav pistol, Storm shield, Jump pack, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Vanguard Veteran - 25, Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield, Jump pack, Frag grenade, Krak grenade


FIRETEAM
Deathwatch Veteran Gunner - 21: Deathwatch frag cannon, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran Gunner - 21: Deathwatch frag cannon, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran - 18: Combi-plasma, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran - 19: Storm shield, Power maul, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Watch sergeant - 22: Xenophase blade, Storm shield, Frag grenade, Krak grenade
Deathwatch Veteran - 14: BoltGun

The Captain will be used for some special missions and is the only Commander model I have, so not much to change here.

It's quite certain from the last year's campaign, that I will have some Death Guard, Adeptus Astartes and Necrons to go through (along with AM, Nids, Genecult, Orks and Eldar)

I would be grateful for any inputs or suggestions.
Thanks