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For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 10:37:56


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Today is the day! I expect some may have the PDF already and some of us will be picking it up at the store ready! I look forward to hearing everyone's tactical evaluation so we may destroy the enemies of the Allfather!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 11:49:10


Post by: Nebulas1


Your right my bad I was reading my quick notes on my note pad and got lazy just wrote all wolf guard the same. Question stands though just with combi weapons.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 11:50:38


Post by: COLD CASH


1st............but not


Chaplain(wolf priest dread)

Combo's

Ranged 1st turn gunline.
Twin las + beastslayer + armor of russ/stormbolter relic(storm bolter relic is quite good on this Warlord as he will be wounding all T5-7 on 4's and T8 and above on 5's).
Add a wolflord and WGBL for reroll 1's tohit or wound.
Add Logan for reroll all hits.

Fight phase Warlord.
CC arm any combo of weapons but(inferno arm +HFlamer is nasty) Hunter's + Wulfen stone.
Same character combo's as above.

In the fight phase the +1 str buff can be quite good buffing all chainswords and + str high ap weapons(power or frost weapons as example).

Wolfpriests, Ironpriests and Runepriests can also provide support but all depends on points and build.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 11:52:12


Post by: Nebulas1


Edit: wrong thread but all the same - Read the wolf guard pack leader entry depending on the type of squad carefully. For example Terminators in long fangs can take terminator heavy weapons but can't in grey hunters.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 11:58:55


Post by: KnightScion


I have an over abundance of Fenrisian wolves (70). Is there a viable way to actually field the wolves with the new book? I know they can fill a Brigade spot and are great screens but I loved a mass of wolves on the table protecting my TWolf Calvary. Please tell me there is a way to play them again!!!!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 12:31:10


Post by: Nebulas1


KnightScion wrote:
I have an over abundance of Fenrisian wolves (70). Is there a viable way to actually field the wolves with the new book? I know they can fill a Brigade spot and are great screens but I loved a mass of wolves on the table protecting my TWolf Calvary. Please tell me there is a way to play them again!!!!


You can play them and make combos that aren't bad but when you compare it to a Guard CP battery the guard just do the same and more for less points. When the battery hopefully gets strangled with chapter approved I expect they will become reasonable again.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 12:31:38


Post by: KillswitchUK


Unfortunately the fenrisian Wolves went up 2 points which is rediculous. I don't think they are bad as a screen but when guardsman can move move move on average 18 inches a turn and are half the cost with a better save, the fenrisian Wolves are hard to justify.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 13:05:45


Post by: jcd386


Some initial Saturday morning bathtub thoughts:

HQs:

1. Rune priests. You're going to want at least 1 in your list almost no matter what. The power to give units cover saves, and the strategem to make units -1 to hit are very powerful and give SW some significant durability. They also rely somewhat heavily on the first turn. Vs knights with missiles, it's not a bad idea to have a rhino to put this guy inside as they are going to be the most obvious target. I can see taking more than 1 RP to use the lightning power and strat, and Njal seems like a good pick for one of them.

2. Ragnar seems good if you don't have any Wulfen to give your stuff charge rerolls. You'll need a rhino for him, so I can see putting him in a time with 8 blood claws and a rune priest. He is a wolf Lord, so he also gives you rerolls of 1s. His sword is pretty decent. The wolves seem okay to me but not required. He synergies well with another HQ carrying the Wulfen Stone.

3. Canis only seems good if you are using a lot of fun wolves because they need his leadership. He is a WGBL so he gives rerolls to wound. He rerolls his charges but no one else's.

4. Arjack is good if you have TWC (which are WOLF GUARD) or normal wolf guard units to give +1 attack. Note he doesn't buff the pack leaders in GH or BC etc squads. He lets you reroll wounds.

5. Bjorn seems solid if you need a source of rerolls of 1s to hit. The only thing I don't like about him is he might have some trouble keeping up with faster units, and he doesn't synergize with long fangs that well since they already reroll 1s to hit against their chosen targets.

6. I think I'd only ever take a wolf priest with Wulfen or TWC, since they have no shooting, usually hit on 3s with hammers, and the heal might be useful. I think the best option is the index bike. Ulric is cool, but the chances of him killing a character or monster seem small. And he needs a rhino to keep up unless you outflank him with some Wulfen.

7. Wolf Lords are solid. Jump pack seems like the obvious choice, but TWC seems okay as well, though it trades speed and mobility for durability. Blood angels still do it sightly better, due to the ignore overwatch relic and mobility strategems.

8. WGBL are decent. They now have 1 less than a Lord, and mathematically the two buffs (reroll ones to hit vs wound) are the same damage increase, but they cost a little less than Lords do. I think a lot of what goes into bringing Lords and WGBLs is what other buffs you're getting from the named HQs, as about half of them are Lords or WGBLs. It seems worth having a naked WGBL babysit 3 long fang squads if you bring that many. If you bring less than 3 the reroll wounds strategem seems good enough so I'd pass.

8. I don't see any reason to take Krom, Harold, or iron priests.

Other units:

1. Troops seem like a bit of a problem area for us. We don't have scouts so all of our options are pretty expensive. I've been considering 1 rhino with 6-8 blood claws in it to hide some HQs, and then two 5 man squads in another rhino. I can't really justify spending points on a 3rd rhino, or too many CP on outflanking troops, but those are options if you want to go more troop heavy. I'm not fond of razorbacks unless I have full re-rolls to hit (Santa sleigh time?) to counter act the movement penalty to hit, and bring able to pop smoke on rhinos is nice.
The troop unit loadouts I've been toying with are:
5 blood claws, power fist. Probably x2 in a rhino. Not as effective as having a WG with a hammer, but cheaper and you can fit two in a rhino. I only like the power fist because you get three attacks on the charge and hit on 3s.
5 grey hunters, plasmagun, plasma pistol. Like a bad tac squad, but almost twice as good in close combat. Same reasons as above for no WG.
5-9 Blood claws, power fist, WG with hammer. Possible Combi plasma on the WG. They'd need their own rhino/razorback, and only take 1 troop slot, but they are better than the 5 man squad above. Also a possible candidate for outflank, in which case the squad is probably better off at 6 men, or 15 if you also do something wild like outflank Ragnar or some Wulfen along with them for the charge reroll.
5 grey hunters, wolf guard, all the plasma. Im not sure a thunder hammer is worth it on a model that only gets 2 attacks, even if you are hitting on 3s, so I've been leaving it off.
5 intercessors. I don't like this option much as they don't really synergize with anything else SW want to do.
In my current list building I'm torn between whether to try to get a second battillion, as the CP are nice and I find myself wanting at least 4 HQs, but can't find too many ways to like the troop units enough to bring 6 of them.

2. The real damage units.

It seems to me that Wulfen and TWC are pretty solid units. I think the most obvious choice of the two are the Wulfen, as they are about as fast or faster, do more damage, you can outflank them, and they have their aura buffs. I do however think TWC become about as good when you have Arjac, Ragnar, and the Wulfen Stone all together (and Ragnar + Wulfen Stone is better for things like blood claws because you get both rerolls to charge and the extra attacks), and TWC benefit more from the cover save psychic ability since they come with a 3+ armor save. TWC and Wulfen are about as durable as each other, though they each like getting shot by some weapons more then the other.

Outside of that long fangs seem okay to me, so I can see bringing 1-2 squads to make use of all the strategems. If you bring 3 I'd spring for an ancient and WGBL.
The SW fliers also seem decent, especially the frostfang, which has pretty good synergy with the rune priest intercept strategem with so many shots.
I like that the Wulfen dreads can reroll their charges without any help, I like the wolf claw weapon, and the shield is nice, and it's actually a fairly cheap unit. I could see bringing 2 in a list with some TWC or some other scary shooting target. Their durability also goes way up with a rune priest around, which is probably why they lost the 3++.

I don't see too much use in the traditional/primaris space marine units, though I do think reivers could be decent if they drop in near +1 attack buffs and charge rerolls, and aggressors might be okay outflanking in a back feild.

The skyclaws and Swiftclaws just seem too expensive to me.

Wolf guard also seem pricey when you start loading them up with too many items, but I imagine some kind of Arjac bomb is possible.

All of the warlord traits are pretty meh IMO, so I don't see making SW the warlord if you have another faction allied in. Otherwise wolfkin, hunter, and beastslayer all seem okay depending on the matchup.

I'm sure I left out some units but that likely means I didn't find them very interesting.

Overall I think the rules and strategems are flavorful and pretty good, but it suffers from most of the issues other Marine books do, and lots of stuff costs more than it should. I think it is likely on a similar level to DW and DA competitively, but perhaps a bit less reliant on allies and better in a more casual mono faction setting.

I'm not sure how good of allies they are, though perhaps long fangs, Wulfen, rune priests, and stormfangs will make some showings.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
KnightScion wrote:
I have an over abundance of Fenrisian wolves (70). Is there a viable way to actually field the wolves with the new book? I know they can fill a Brigade spot and are great screens but I loved a mass of wolves on the table protecting my TWolf Calvary. Please tell me there is a way to play them again!!!!


You pretty much have to bring canis along with them or they will die to leadership. The only alternative would be a wolf Lord and be willing to blow 2 CP each turn for the auto pass bubble strategem.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 14:45:42


Post by: beir


I think the wolf skull head on a black venerable dreadnought would make an awesome wolf priest dreadnought model. Even better than the official FW chaplain model (which is OOP now anyway).


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 16:06:04


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


KnightScion wrote:
I have an over abundance of Fenrisian wolves (70). Is there a viable way to actually field the wolves with the new book? I know they can fill a Brigade spot and are great screens but I loved a mass of wolves on the table protecting my TWolf Calvary. Please tell me there is a way to play them again!!!!


I plan on buying a bunch of fenrisian wolves. Harald Deathwolf boosts their leadership and Canis Wolfborn gives them more attacks.



My contribution so far is something I personally am excited about.
Canis Wolfborn with wulfen stone supporting Thunderwolf Calvary. Sample list below
Canis will give +1 to the wolf mount attacks
Warlord trait wolfkin +1 attack to Calvary and no morale test in 6"
(Deed) gives + 1 attack even when heroically interven or was charged by enemy
Canis gives reroll 1 to wound
Hunters unleashed +1 to hit on charge
Overwhelming savagery- +1 to wound, 1CP
Wolf claws reroll failed wounds
...so in conclusion +2 attacks, +1 to wound , +1 to hit, reroll wounds on claws, and no need for morale test!

1 double wolf claw regular Thunderwolf cav guy would have 5 attacks plus 4 for the mount! 9x S 5 attacks at -2/-1 is nothing to sneeze at.

Adding Arjac near by would give Canis and the Calvary another +1 attack each because they are wolf guard.

Canis Wolfborn

Thunderwolf Calvary x3- Sgt TH/SS , 2x double wolf claw
Thunderwolf Calvary x3- Sgt TH/SS , 2x double wolf claw


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 16:25:35


Post by: jcd386


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
KnightScion wrote:
I have an over abundance of Fenrisian wolves (70). Is there a viable way to actually field the wolves with the new book? I know they can fill a Brigade spot and are great screens but I loved a mass of wolves on the table protecting my TWolf Calvary. Please tell me there is a way to play them again!!!!


I plan on buying a bunch of fenrisian wolves. Harald Deathwolf boosts their leadership and Canis Wolfborn gives them more attacks.



My contribution so far is something I personally am excited about.
Canis Wolfborn with wulfen stone supporting Thunderwolf Calvary. Sample list below
Canis will give +1 to the wolf mount attacks
Warlord trait wolfkin +1 attack to Calvary and no morale test in 6"
(Deed) gives + 1 attack even when heroically interven or was charged by enemy
Canis gives reroll 1 to wound
Hunters unleashed +1 to hit on charge
Overwhelming savagery- +1 to wound, 1CP
Wolf claws reroll failed wounds
...so in conclusion +2 attacks, +1 to wound , +1 to hit, reroll wounds on claws, and no need for morale test!

1 double wolf claw regular Thunderwolf cav guy would have 5 attacks plus 4 for the mount! 9x S 5 attacks at -2/-1 is nothing to sneeze at.

Adding Arjac near by would give Canis and the Calvary another +1 attack each because they are wolf guard.

Canis Wolfborn

Thunderwolf Calvary x3- Sgt TH/SS , 2x double wolf claw
Thunderwolf Calvary x3- Sgt TH/SS , 2x double wolf claw


Canis can't take a relic. But someone else could.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 16:28:39


Post by: Ragnar69


1. No relics for special characters
2. You must have hiding under a rock not to know that the warlord traits have already been change by an errata


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 16:50:55


Post by: CatGotYourLas


Going with what I've got right woofin' now. So here's my list for my local meta.

HQs:

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf - Hammer / Shield - Warlord: Saga of the Wolfkin

WGBL on Thunderwolf - Hammer / Shield - Relic: Wulfen Stone

Wolf Priest - Plasma Pistol / Powerthirst

Troops:

GH x5 base loadout + WGPL w/ Storm Bolter

GH x5 base loadout + WGPL w/ Storm Bolter

GH x5 base loadout + WGPL w/ Storm Bolter

Elites:

Wolf Guard Bikers x5 - SS/SB (Yes, they're still legal and I'm using them till they ain't and then selling them).

Wulfen x5 - Hammers and Shields (Leader with Claws)

Fast Attack:

Cyberwolf

TWC x3 - Hammers and Shields

Heavy Support:

Long Fangs x5 - Las

Flyer:

Stormwolf - Standard Loadout

Transport:

Razorback - Twin Ass Cannon - SB
Razorback - Twin Ass Cannon - SB

-

I also have Bjorn, have a Ven Dread I'll be converting to a Wulfen Dread. I have a squad of Intercessors, a squad of Plasma Inceptors and a Predator.

The plan is to basically spearhead right into the hurtiest part of the enemy and lock them into combat. If I survive getting there I have a good chance at winning. The Grey Hunters and likely one of the razorbacks will stay back in my lines to deal with any deep strikers. The Cyberwolf will be back there to prevent deep striking between these units. Simply try to force all deep strikes to be midfield. The GH will run out to claim objectives if things start looking good. The Wulfen and Priest go in the Stormwolf and charge the biggest, meanest unit(s). All Thunderwolf mounts run towars big ugliest unit. Bikers are there to clear chaff that might be in the way / to act as a distraction because people in my local meta seem to hate them.

Longfangs are there to do what longfangs do best. Can't wait to use lonewolf strat on one.

(Edits) Fixed things.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 17:38:52


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


Ragnar69 wrote:
1. No relics for special characters
2. You must have hiding under a rock not to know that the warlord traits have already been change by an errata


The PDF that was released after wasn't an errata per se. They just added the deeds to the Sagas. I have it saved on my phone. I guess I missed the part where a special character can't use the relic . I will just add a generic thunderwolf Lord and give him the relic.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 17:43:51


Post by: jcd386


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Ragnar69 wrote:
1. No relics for special characters
2. You must have hiding under a rock not to know that the warlord traits have already been change by an errata


The PDF that was released after wasn't an errata per se. They just added the deeds to the Sagas. I have it saved on my phone. I guess I missed the part where a special character can't use the relic . I will just add a generic thunderwolf Lord and give him the relic.


It completely replaces the ones in the book though. You aren't allowed to use them.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 17:58:03


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 18:00:07


Post by: jcd386


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 18:02:18


Post by: beir


Why the hell dont we get a free upgrade sprue with our primaris kits like the blood angels and dark angels got?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 18:25:40


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.

Hmm, that's slightly annoying.

So a squad of 9 with a Pack Leader being outflanked isn't TOO much. Main question is what weapons to run, if at all. I like the idea of Power Fists now with the extra attack and no penalty to hit first round of combat, but I have trouble justifying it in my head at the same time.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 19:04:15


Post by: jcd386


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.

Hmm, that's slightly annoying.

So a squad of 9 with a Pack Leader being outflanked isn't TOO much. Main question is what weapons to run, if at all. I like the idea of Power Fists now with the extra attack and no penalty to hit first round of combat, but I have trouble justifying it in my head at the same time.


I think the hammer is worthwhile on the wolf guard pack leader because 3 hammer attacks hitting on 3s is pretty okay. The power fist starts being pricey IMO and I personally hate rolling for D3 damage.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 19:04:31


Post by: Ragnar69


I don't think BCs are worth it. GHs may have 1 less attack on the charge but they will double-tap before charging so it's evened out. And GHs are just more flexible.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 20:01:51


Post by: BrianDavion


 beir wrote:
Why the hell dont we get a free upgrade sprue with our primaris kits like the blood angels and dark angels got?


we don't? laaame

could be a GW beancounter realized that the seopertae boxes with upgrade sprues in them where costing them too much? could just be that thats next just a release in a week or two....



For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 20:30:52


Post by: Azuza001


So i have a tournament tomorrow, 1500 pts. I am taking my new wolves codex out for a test run and am torn between two ideas.

First army list would be 3 longfang squads with 2 rune priests starting on the board. Off the board would be njal in term, herald dearhwolf, 5 wolfen outflanking, and 6 wolfscouts. Plan is to hit them with long range firepower, move runes up for psycic might, and hit a flank with the wulfen / herald to try and sweep an enemy up.

2nd list would be with multiple squads of bloodclaws in rhinos, like 3 squads of 10, with 10 grey hunters droping in from drop pod, and have a large pack of thunderwolves moving up with them. I want to take as cheap hq as possible here, going for the wolf rush. I want to blitz them as hard as possible and eldar with their-1 to hits and jets.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:07:55


Post by: Primortus


Azuza001 wrote:
So i have a tournament tomorrow, 1500 pts. I am taking my new wolves codex out for a test run and am torn between two ideas

First army list would be 3 longfang squads with 2 rune priests starting on the board. Off the board would be njal in term, herald dearhwolf, 5 wolfen outflanking, and 6 wolfscouts. Plan is to hit them with long range firepower, move runes up for psycic might, and hit a flank with the wulfen / herald to try and sweep an enemy up.
.


This sounds like a good list except I'd either keep Njal back or include another Runepriest so you can make use of the Living Storm stratagem which increases Living lightning to D6 mortal wounds. D6 mortal wounds with a chance at 2D6 or more is really good.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:10:05


Post by: BrianDavion


BTW I compiled as much of the new lore from the space wolves codex as I could here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/762802.page feel free to check and those with the codex please note if I've forgotten anythin g


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:47:25


Post by: beir


Well gak. They nerfed Harald's rule to not apply to his invuln save. This codex is getting worse and worse...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:51:17


Post by: BrianDavion


 beir wrote:
Well gak. They nerfed Harald's rule to not apply to his invuln save. This codex is getting worse and worse...


I was expecting that, GW's tried to avoid 2++ saves this edition. it's a little suprising they didn't FAQ/Errata that out months ago


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:56:07


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.

Hmm, that's slightly annoying.

So a squad of 9 with a Pack Leader being outflanked isn't TOO much. Main question is what weapons to run, if at all. I like the idea of Power Fists now with the extra attack and no penalty to hit first round of combat, but I have trouble justifying it in my head at the same time.


I think the hammer is worthwhile on the wolf guard pack leader because 3 hammer attacks hitting on 3s is pretty okay. The power fist starts being pricey IMO and I personally hate rolling for D3 damage.

With Grey Hunters having come down I'm more iffy on Blood Claws too. Deciding these things is hard as I'm the one who has to spend money!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:58:09


Post by: BrianDavion


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.

Hmm, that's slightly annoying.

So a squad of 9 with a Pack Leader being outflanked isn't TOO much. Main question is what weapons to run, if at all. I like the idea of Power Fists now with the extra attack and no penalty to hit first round of combat, but I have trouble justifying it in my head at the same time.


I think the hammer is worthwhile on the wolf guard pack leader because 3 hammer attacks hitting on 3s is pretty okay. The power fist starts being pricey IMO and I personally hate rolling for D3 damage.

With Grey Hunters having come down I'm more iffy on Blood Claws too. Deciding these things is hard as I'm the one who has to spend money!


I think I prefer grey hunters myself. but part of that is I prefer the flexability, with blood claws you've got your tatical options set, "charge the enemy" Grey Hunters give you just such an amazingly flexable force, proably the most flexable space marine troop choice in 40k.. it feels wrong to not use it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/25 23:59:47


Post by: Primortus


BrianDavion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.

Hmm, that's slightly annoying.

So a squad of 9 with a Pack Leader being outflanked isn't TOO much. Main question is what weapons to run, if at all. I like the idea of Power Fists now with the extra attack and no penalty to hit first round of combat, but I have trouble justifying it in my head at the same time.


I think the hammer is worthwhile on the wolf guard pack leader because 3 hammer attacks hitting on 3s is pretty okay. The power fist starts being pricey IMO and I personally hate rolling for D3 damage.

With Grey Hunters having come down I'm more iffy on Blood Claws too. Deciding these things is hard as I'm the one who has to spend money!


I think I prefer grey hunters myself.


Grey Hunters are definitely better imo, especially with True Grit.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 00:02:47


Post by: beir


After reading through this codex, I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed. We lost a lot of our unique flavor from 7th edition and many of my favorite relics and formations (converted to stratagems) are not here.

Where are Morkai's Claws (one of my absolute favs from 7th edition)?

Where is our Shieldbrothers stratagem? (+1 T and reflect wounds to a squad of hammerbros would be a pretty awesome, flavorful stratagem) What about any sort of Blackmanes deep strike stratagem (maybe make drop pods actually useful again)? Counter charge (I guess heroic intervention is supposed to be the replacement for this, but it's not nearly the same).

Why did we lose so many index options? No more combi-weapons on rune priests, no more characters on bikes, no more iron priests on thunderwolves. I feel like I paid $40 for a new book and my army is less than it was before.

Why did we wait for so long for one new model and primaris models that effectively cost us $16 more than Blood Angels and Dark Angels players (they got boxes that are bundled with their upgrade sprue for the same cost as the base models)?

Why did they nerf dreadnought blizzard shields? It's not like SW were going to dominate competitive play with a 3++ dread running around.

How could a codex that took months longer than the other SM codexes seem rushed?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 00:32:15


Post by: kaotkbliss


What happened to the scouts?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 00:59:25


Post by: beir


kaotkbliss wrote:
What happened to the scouts?


Nothing happened to scouts. We waited months for a copy/paste codex.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 01:10:37


Post by: ulfhednir86


BrianDavion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do Blood Claws look right now? If they went down in price, outflanking large squads with some LD buff wouldn't be a terrible idea.


They are still the same 13 points, but the wolf guard pack leaders went up to 16. Everything else is the same with them. The chapter tactic makes them better than before, though.

Hmm, that's slightly annoying.

So a squad of 9 with a Pack Leader being outflanked isn't TOO much. Main question is what weapons to run, if at all. I like the idea of Power Fists now with the extra attack and no penalty to hit first round of combat, but I have trouble justifying it in my head at the same time.


I think the hammer is worthwhile on the wolf guard pack leader because 3 hammer attacks hitting on 3s is pretty okay. The power fist starts being pricey IMO and I personally hate rolling for D3 damage.

With Grey Hunters having come down I'm more iffy on Blood Claws too. Deciding these things is hard as I'm the one who has to spend money!


I think I prefer grey hunters myself. but part of that is I prefer the flexability, with blood claws you've got your tatical options set, "charge the enemy" Grey Hunters give you just such an amazingly flexable force, proably the most flexable space marine troop choice in 40k.. it feels wrong to not use it.


Depends on what you need. Bc get some great stratagems that gh dont. And tge extra attack on. The charge makes better use of the chapter tactic.if your taking fist and hammers its great. So bc are very viable. Im taking a few msu ones with a wgpl in term armour shield and hammrr so good chance for some lone wolves. I outflank with Ragnar for beta strikes but wulfen.make great company as well.. Greys are good as well since they xan fire when they come out so dont. Need to make the charge from the flank. But cant be buffed as much as bc.

I. Thibk if you dont like to outfkank and wanna take rhe fire to the face then gh but if you wanna outfkank in theor backsides bc with wulfen/ Ragnar is better


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 01:12:05


Post by: kaotkbliss


Well now, I know someone in this thread said "since we don't have scouts" but now I can't find it LOL

That's good because I'm bidding on a bunch of them to try and up how many I have available and replace some old rogue trader ones.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 01:14:30


Post by: Thanatos73


Can we take Cataphractii or Tartaros Terminators in Grey Hunter, Blood Claw and Long Fang squads? Or just vanilla Terminators?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 01:16:47


Post by: beir


 Thanatos73 wrote:
Can we take Cataphractii or Tartaros Terminators in Grey Hunter, Blood Claw and Long Fang squads? Or just vanilla Terminators?


Only vanilla terminator armor.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 01:23:30


Post by: jcd386


kaotkbliss wrote:
Well now, I know someone in this thread said "since we don't have scouts" but now I can't find it LOL

That's good because I'm bidding on a bunch of them to try and up how many I have available and replace some old rogue trader ones.


I think it was me, but I was talking about not having them as troops lol. Sorry.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 01:33:50


Post by: beir


We got some pretty significant power level reductions compared to the index, if anyone cares about that. All of the casual gamers in my area use power level.

Wulfen, Terminators, and Grey Hunters all got cheaper in terms of power level. Long Fangs and flyers went up in cost.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 02:37:10


Post by: BrianDavion


Long fangs going up doesn't suprise me, they're an insanely good unit.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 02:49:47


Post by: tokugawa


 beir wrote:
After reading through this codex, I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed. We lost a lot of our unique flavor from 7th edition and many of my favorite relics and formations (converted to stratagems) are not here.

Where are Morkai's Claws (one of my absolute favs from 7th edition)?

Where is our Shieldbrothers stratagem? (+1 T and reflect wounds to a squad of hammerbros would be a pretty awesome, flavorful stratagem) What about any sort of Blackmanes deep strike stratagem (maybe make drop pods actually useful again)? Counter charge (I guess heroic intervention is supposed to be the replacement for this, but it's not nearly the same).

Why did we lose so many index options? No more combi-weapons on rune priests, no more characters on bikes, no more iron priests on thunderwolves. I feel like I paid $40 for a new book and my army is less than it was before.

Why did we wait for so long for one new model and primaris models that effectively cost us $16 more than Blood Angels and Dark Angels players (they got boxes that are bundled with their upgrade sprue for the same cost as the base models)?

Why did they nerf dreadnought blizzard shields? It's not like SW were going to dominate competitive play with a 3++ dread running around.

How could a codex that took months longer than the other SM codexes seem rushed?

Due to some wyswyg nonsence-related policy of GW, if GW don't want to release the kit for one configulation of a unit(e.g. Nurgle Lord on a palanquin), they would totally remove the choice in a new Codex. Priests on TWC falls into the same category.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 03:39:46


Post by: Justyn


Long fangs going up doesn't suprise me, they're an insanely good unit.


Keep in mind he was talking power level. Points wise they are exactly the same. I'm not sure i've ever seen anyone play power level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why did they nerf dreadnought blizzard shields? It's not like SW were going to dominate competitive play with a 3++ dread running around.


What about a 3++ Dread that moves 8" re-rolls charge distance. Is -2 to hit on turn one, while your opponents best anti tank unit is -1 to hit as well? I can see why they nerfed Blizzard Shields. I still plan on having 2-3 in most games. Only now they are 134 points.

Due to some wyswyg nonsence-related policy of GW, if GW don't want to release the kit for one configulation of a unit(e.g. Nurgle Lord on a palanquin), they would totally remove the choice in a new Codex. Priests on TWC falls into the same category.


This is the thing I hate most about this edition. GWs actively attempting to kill creativity when modeling. Modelling is my favorite part of the hobby.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 03:49:43


Post by: jcd386


Justyn wrote:
Long fangs going up doesn't suprise me, they're an insanely good unit.


Keep in mind he was talking power level. Points wise they are exactly the same. I'm not sure i've ever seen anyone play power level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why did they nerf dreadnought blizzard shields? It's not like SW were going to dominate competitive play with a 3++ dread running around.


What about a 3++ Dread that moves 8" re-rolls charge distance. Is -2 to hit on turn one, while your opponents best anti tank unit is -1 to hit as well? I can see why they nerfed Blizzard Shields. I still plan on having 2-3 in most games. Only now they are 134 points.

Due to some wyswyg nonsence-related policy of GW, if GW don't want to release the kit for one configulation of a unit(e.g. Nurgle Lord on a palanquin), they would totally remove the choice in a new Codex. Priests on TWC falls into the same category.


This is the thing I hate most about this edition. GWs actively attempting to kill creativity when modeling. Modelling is my favorite part of the hobby.


It makes sense to only have rules for things with models. Until index units are illegal, we really have no reason to complain.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 04:29:50


Post by: Justyn


It makes sense to only have rules for things with models. Until index units are illegal, we really have no reason to complain.


But it isn't just those. Primaris characters have no options. They are boring as hell. No mobility, no options. Cookie cutter, cookie cutter, cookie cutter. You may like it. I do not.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 05:31:23


Post by: Thanatos73


 beir wrote:
 Thanatos73 wrote:
Can we take Cataphractii or Tartaros Terminators in Grey Hunter, Blood Claw and Long Fang squads? Or just vanilla Terminators?


Only vanilla terminator armor.


Boo. Why the hell would they limit it to the vanilla Terminators? They can still keep the wargear options for the other suits of Terminator armor. Guess my Heresy era Terminators will stay in their own squads.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 05:33:18


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Thanatos73 wrote:
 beir wrote:
 Thanatos73 wrote:
Can we take Cataphractii or Tartaros Terminators in Grey Hunter, Blood Claw and Long Fang squads? Or just vanilla Terminators?


Only vanilla terminator armor.


Boo. Why the hell would they limit it to the vanilla Terminators? They can still keep the wargear options for the other suits of Terminator armor. Guess my Heresy era Terminators will stay in their own squads.

Eh, Counts As will reign supreme. I'm using Tartaros Terminators for my Deathwatch so...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 12:24:24


Post by: jcd386


Justyn wrote:
It makes sense to only have rules for things with models. Until index units are illegal, we really have no reason to complain.


But it isn't just those. Primaris characters have no options. They are boring as hell. No mobility, no options. Cookie cutter, cookie cutter, cookie cutter. You may like it. I do not.


Primaris are another issue entirely. I don't think they should have ever existed in the first place. But it's not like primaris lost options, they just never had any. And so far no normal units have lost anything either you can use the index version. I don't see the point in complaining about it unless they make the indexes illegal, in which case it's probably time to complain.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 14:35:26


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


The primaris captain in Gravis armor is promising. Either with his master crafters sword doing 2 dmg each or with his pwr fist hitting on 2s S8 -3 on an average of 2 damage. He has 5 attacks and 6wounds at T5 with a 4++. Don't have my codex on me but maybe he would benefit from the wulfen stone from +1 attack. Maybe give him the saga of the hunter to make him faster at getting into combat. Combine that with the armor of Russ and you could lock down big baddies or elite units for a little bit and make them hit last.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 15:26:27


Post by: Northern85Star


Our chapter trait and the berserk charge ability of BCs make them the superior troop choice IMO.

Wgpl with th/ss. Hoping the ss will make him last standing, for the lone wolf stratagem. TDA might be worth it due to the extra wound, and since there is no longer a discount to regular wgpl. Could consider going combiplasma instead of ss then.

Pack leader with powerfist.

They hit on 3s with 3 A each on the charge. They also have the greatest synergy with wulfen, to make it 4 A each. GHs cant compete with that.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 16:09:34


Post by: Neophyte2012


Northern85Star wrote:
Our chapter trait and the berserk charge ability of BCs make them the superior troop choice IMO.

Wgpl with th/ss. Hoping the ss will make him last standing, for the lone wolf stratagem. TDA might be worth it due to the extra wound, and since there is no longer a discount to regular wgpl. Could consider going combiplasma instead of ss then.

Pack leader with powerfist.

They hit on 3s with 3 A each on the charge. They also have the greatest synergy with wulfen, to make it 4 A each. GHs cant compete with that.


I think no matter it is Blood Claw or Grey Hunter, getting them into their desired range is the big big problem in my view. In a "friendly tournament" I joined I tried rhino rush, it worked well against other assault army, but really worrying against the shooty armies, in 1500pts Dark Eldar can easily destroy 2 Rhinos plus a Venerable Dreadnought in first round. Basically if you try to use Rhino rush, unless you got first turn when facing strong shooting, letting the Rune Priest casting Storm Caller and use the Cloaked by the Storm stratagem and / or poping smoke. Your packs are as good as dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also find that the new Wuflen Dreadnought being pretty underwhelming. I tried the Axe and Shield plus heavy flamer on it, which to me, it seems to be the best possible loadout. It moves fast, reroll charges, true, it can rush into the enemy relatively "fast". But it do not have FnP, the 4++ is not enough to save it from 3 dark lance shots, nor does it can avoid the dread from being stabbed dead from 10 DC with power swords and chain swords. It also do not have the buff to the buddies around it, unlike its wuflen brothers not entombed in dread. The Axe is also disappointing, especially on the Wuflen Dread instead of the SW Venerable Dread, it loses the +1 attack on the charge, and become "unwieldy", and have a significant point increase. All these nerfs together overwhelmed the buffs it get from the added "anti-horde" attack mode.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 16:29:19


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


You had issues with a Dark Lance having a 4++? I find that hard to believe.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 16:37:58


Post by: Northern85Star


I dont think wulfen dreads are the way to go. Thunderhammers on infantry transported by T8 transports with smoke, or flyers, to get the -2 to hit modifier and 2+ save.

This gives us few drops so that we hopefully get T1, and thus only one round of enemy shooting before we are in melee.

Else we have to outflank.

You can also make a turn one charge with a lord on bike and hunter trait (14”+6”+2d6), not saying that it is a good idea in general, but then you can try to advance troops into his buble which allows them to charge following the advance.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 16:43:37


Post by: Neophyte2012


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You had issues with a Dark Lance having a 4++? I find that hard to believe.


Maybe I got the name wrong? It is a long range S8 AP-4 D6 dmg weapon on DE Ravager (the gun boat), three of that weapon shot at the Wuflen Dread, all hits, all wounds, I failed 2 saves (rolls a 1, 3 and 6 for the inv saves), results in just 8 dmg, so the Dread is dead before it even lift its leg to march forward. To me in the current meta, T7 4++ 8W is not enough for "distraction Carnifexes" costing 150+ points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Northern85Star wrote:
I dont think wulfen dreads are the way to go. Thunderhammers on infantry transported by T8 transports with smoke, or flyers, to get the -2 to hit modifier and 2+ save.

This gives us few drops so that we hopefully get T1, and thus only one round of enemy shooting before we are in melee.

Else we have to outflank.

You can also make a turn one charge with a lord on bike and hunter trait (14”+6”+2d6), not saying that it is a good idea in general, but then you can try to advance troops into his buble which allows them to charge following the advance.


Wuflen Dread imo is really a trap. Don't be fooled by its name, It just failed flat compare to the Wuflen infantries tbh. The Wuflen got much much better in the codex, keeping its 28ppm base cost in the CA, while gaining an extra attack each, and offering the buff that is not on the Wuflen Dread, and the SW chapter trait also buffed them massively.

I think if want to run the SW special Dread, Bjorn and Murderfang are the way to go if you want footsloging dread. Or alternatively, take Venerable Dread in Lucis Pattern Dreadnought Droppod, it is "only 80pts", cheapper than the infantry carrying GW droppod.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 17:04:25


Post by: Archebius


50 point reduction on the Stormfang Gunship, right? My buddy ran that all the time, definitely too expensive before. Still can't transport Primaris, though, which seems weird.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 17:54:42


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


I feel that The Sagas I like best got worse with the change to Warlord traits . I feel like saga of the hunter is kind of a wash it was good before and it still OK for the bath it provides two units around the warlord but I feel like saga of the wolf kin got worse . Sure wolfkin effects all units now but it doesn't help morale and it only affects other units after the war Lord has killed five enemy models.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 18:55:23


Post by: Northern85Star


Morale is rarely a problem for SM, unless you take big units - which i dont see a point in doing. Wolf priests and great company ancients can boost LD of any model to 10.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 20:19:47


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


Northern85Star wrote:
Morale is rarely a problem for SM, unless you take big units - which i dont see a point in doing. Wolf priests and great company ancients can boost LD of any model to 10.

It is for fenrisian wolves. That trait made them immune. Even Harald only boosts them to ld 9. I wanted to take a big unit of them to screen my more important units. Plus they look cool.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 20:30:55


Post by: Northern85Star


“Only” LD 9?

But true, they’re nice models/units. No idea why GW wanted to nerf them.

Anyway, with LD 9 you opponent needs to kill 4 before you even have a morale test.

Saga of majesty was originally also an immune to morale aura, instead of increased aura range - so we lost all immune to orale stuff. Im personaly glad, because i have stopped using fenrisian wolves as msu (they die too easily). I use the models as cyberwolves to hold objectives and deny deepstrike opportunities.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 22:11:32


Post by: ryzouken


Archebius wrote:
50 point reduction on the Stormfang Gunship, right? My buddy ran that all the time, definitely too expensive before. Still can't transport Primaris, though, which seems weird.

Zero change from chapter approved point value.

As to the morale thing, if you run a Wolf Lord there is that stratagem that lets you ignore morale for all units within x inches for 2 CP. That seems pretty handy on occasion, given it's a solid upgrade to the BRB morale stratagem (which you can also still use)

One thing I don't see is a way to recoup command points. Completely absent from the codex based on my quick skim. Really pushing that IG CP farm battalion there GW...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 22:24:45


Post by: BrianDavion


ryzouken wrote:
Archebius wrote:
50 point reduction on the Stormfang Gunship, right? My buddy ran that all the time, definitely too expensive before. Still can't transport Primaris, though, which seems weird.

Zero change from chapter approved point value.

As to the morale thing, if you run a Wolf Lord there is that stratagem that lets you ignore morale for all units within x inches for 2 CP. That seems pretty handy on occasion, given it's a solid upgrade to the BRB morale stratagem (which you can also still use)

One thing I don't see is a way to recoup command points. Completely absent from the codex based on my quick skim. Really pushing that IG CP farm battalion there GW...


that or GW's realized those guard relics where a horriable mistake. hopefully they'll nerf em.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 22:48:31


Post by: ryzouken


It feels odd, being possibly the only codex with no cp recoup baked in.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 23:29:20


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


ryzouken wrote:
It feels odd, being possibly the only codex with no cp recoup baked in.

Grey Knights don't but they don't count as a codex so...

Then I don't think Tyranids do, but they shouldn't have issues getting enough CP. Then there's the Tallyman from Death Guard but that's bad so do we count it?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/26 23:40:49


Post by: ryzouken


Tallyman counts, I think. But point taken, not the only codex, but one of a very few.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 02:03:18


Post by: beir


After playing my first game with the new codex tonight, I ran across a problem with the Lone Wolf stratagems that I didn't consider before

The last surviving model in a unit has a good chance of failing a morale check. Your super awesome new lone wolf character may just run away after going super sayian. I think this needs an FAQ - the new Lone Wolf should be immune to morale checks imo.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 02:18:27


Post by: StarHunter25


Something possibly worth mentioning. Switftclaws might actually be good now. Have a WGBL on a thunderwolf (or go index for a bike for him), give wolf stone, and saga of wulfkin. All said and done, each swiftclaw, after saga buff comes in, will have 5 attacks. And given that you can have 15 + a wolfguard biker in the unit, 77 attacks on the charge hitting on 2's is nothing to sneeze at.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 02:45:52


Post by: Justyn


Zero change from chapter approved point value.


The Stormfang Gunship remains 175 base points but the Hellfrost Destructor that is the Main Gun went from 50pts to Zero.

Something possibly worth mentioning. Switftclaws might actually be good now. Have a WGBL on a thunderwolf (or go index for a bike for him), give wolf stone, and saga of wulfkin. All said and done, each swiftclaw, after saga buff comes in, will have 5 attacks. And given that you can have 15 + a wolfguard biker in the unit, 77 attacks on the charge hitting on 2's is nothing to sneeze at.


Counting anything as being full strength that doesn't arrive from reserves after a Saga has triggered might be expecting a bit much.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 03:29:27


Post by: Continuity


Using Keen Eyes on a Stormhawk is quite spicy, hitting ground targets on 3+ and flying targets on 2+


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 06:19:49


Post by: ryzouken


Justyn wrote:
Zero change from chapter approved point value.


The Stormfang Gunship remains 175 base points but the Hellfrost Destructor that is the Main Gun went from 50pts to Zero.

Ah, I was looking at the other flyer. Yeah, that's a nifty change.



For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 09:47:07


Post by: Ordana


Northern85Star wrote:
I dont think wulfen dreads are the way to go. Thunderhammers on infantry transported by T8 transports with smoke, or flyers, to get the -2 to hit modifier and 2+ save.

This gives us few drops so that we hopefully get T1, and thus only one round of enemy shooting before we are in melee.

Else we have to outflank.

You can also make a turn one charge with a lord on bike and hunter trait (14”+6”+2d6), not saying that it is a good idea in general, but then you can try to advance troops into his buble which allows them to charge following the advance.

I donno. Going for a Rhino Rush is a meta that is gearing itself to kill a Knight per turn feels like a losing proposition.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 09:54:00


Post by: COLD CASH


I find the lukewarm response to the chaplain dread quite interesting from this thread and last.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 10:24:21


Post by: Ordana


COLD CASH wrote:
I find the lukewarm response to the chaplain dread quite interesting from this thread and last.
There is no Chaplain Dread in the codex?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 10:49:07


Post by: Northern85Star


 Ordana wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
I find the lukewarm response to the chaplain dread quite interesting from this thread and last.
There is no Chaplain Dread in the codex?


It’s a forgeworld unit, so if your gaming group allows FW, you can now take a chaplain dread and give it warlord traits and relics.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 10:57:43


Post by: Ragnar69


I don't even know where I could find the rules for Chaplain dreads. For many players FW is something they heard whispers of but have no idea how to handle it


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 11:04:36


Post by: tneva82


Ragnar69 wrote:
I don't even know where I could find the rules for Chaplain dreads. For many players FW is something they heard whispers of but have no idea how to handle it


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Imperial-Armour-Index-Adeptus-astartes-2017

Unsurprsingly they are found in FW book for space marine units.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 11:12:44


Post by: COLD CASH


Chaplain dread can be found in battlescribe under fw astartes just add that entry to what ever detach you are running.

Its really the best warlord we have. Its perfect to follow gh razorbacks or for gunlines or anything really.

I honestly cant see myself running anything else unless im running a logan/arjac wolfguard bomb or some combo thats very specific to do with named chars.

I never thought i would not take bjorn but chappy is so much cheaper and arguably better.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 11:33:40


Post by: ulfhednir86


 beir wrote:
After playing my first game with the new codex tonight, I ran across a problem with the Lone Wolf stratagems that I didn't consider before

The last surviving model in a unit has a good chance of failing a morale check. Your super awesome new lone wolf character may just run away after going super sayian. I think this needs an FAQ - the new Lone Wolf should be immune to morale checks imo.


There are a few stratagems to auto pass moral to save him.


P.S can people stop bringing up the chap dread? its not fluffy for wolves nor is it usable in tournaments and FW sucks (note their index's)


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 11:45:17


Post by: Northern85Star


I can see a chaplain dread shine in a long fang heavy list with the relic bolter and twin las.

Suddently our long fang LCs wound anything below T9 on a 2+. Add a Great company ancient, so when long fangs die they get to shoot on a 4+ before going down.

Chap dread w/ twin las, combat weapon and relic bolter
Rune priest (protective bubble)
Great company ancient
3x5 GH, no gear (screen)
2x5 LF w/ LC
1x5 LF w/ ML

This sketch comes in at around 1000 pts. We then need to fill in stuff against non-monster and non-vehicle units.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 11:48:41


Post by: jcd386


It's usable in tournements. It's also a legal unit so it's fine to talk about. Think about it as a wolf priest dread if that helps.

I just don't think it's that great. The model itself is expensive and slow, so it's not likely to keep up with rhinos, TWC, and Wulfen. 2 hidden Las Cannons is nice, but shooting them means you're only moving 6". SW really need to hit the enemy hard on turn 2, and the chaplain dread doesn't help them do that. The armor relic seems scary on it, but the real value of the relic is making an enemy fight last, and you'd be able to use that ability much better on a model with mobility, such as a jump pack character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Northern85Star wrote:
I can see a chaplain dread shine in a long fang heavy list with the relic bolter and twin las.

Suddently our long fang LCs wound anything below T9 on a 2+.


What is making them do that, exactly?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 12:05:57


Post by: Northern85Star


Saga of the beastslayer. If the chap dread kills a monster or vehicle, then all units within 6” gets +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles. The chap dread has 2 LCs and the relic stormbolter, which all works nicely with the warlord trait.

In this way i see his potential, but not in a melee oriented army. It has to be a list that tries to get enemy key units down asap from range.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 12:09:29


Post by: jcd386


Northern85Star wrote:
Saga of the beastslayer. If the chap dread kills a monster or vehicle, then all units within 6” gets +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles. The chap dread has 2 LCs and the relic stormbolter, which all works nicely with the warlord trait.

In this way i see his potential, but not in a melee oriented army. It has to be a list that tries to get enemy key units down asap from range.


Gotcha. Yeah that's not terrible against certain lists with vehicles that aren't too hard to crack. A bit of luck needed to have him be the one who gets the kill, but should be doable.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 12:29:48


Post by: tneva82


jcd386 wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Saga of the beastslayer. If the chap dread kills a monster or vehicle, then all units within 6” gets +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles. The chap dread has 2 LCs and the relic stormbolter, which all works nicely with the warlord trait.

In this way i see his potential, but not in a melee oriented army. It has to be a list that tries to get enemy key units down asap from range.


Gotcha. Yeah that's not terrible against certain lists with vehicles that aren't too hard to crack. A bit of luck needed to have him be the one who gets the kill, but should be doable.


Plus it will start working turn 2 which means dread or long fangs could be dead in an edition where first 2 turns are generally the big ones, maybe turn 3

edit: Whoops dread isn't dying quickly


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:02:52


Post by: beir


 ulfhednir86 wrote:
 beir wrote:
After playing my first game with the new codex tonight, I ran across a problem with the Lone Wolf stratagems that I didn't consider before

The last surviving model in a unit has a good chance of failing a morale check. Your super awesome new lone wolf character may just run away after going super sayian. I think this needs an FAQ - the new Lone Wolf should be immune to morale checks imo.


There are a few stratagems to auto pass moral to save him.


P.S can people stop bringing up the chap dread? its not fluffy for wolves nor is it usable in tournaments and FW sucks (note their index's)


Each of those cost 2cp so now your lone wolf costs 3cp. Not worth that many command points most of the time.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:09:11


Post by: Ragnar69


You can use the Lone Wolf strategem at the end of any phase. So if the unit lost too many models simply use it at the end of the Morale phase.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:22:33


Post by: Garrlor


Surely if you make him a Lone Wolf in any phase before the morale phase he becomes a Character and ergo immune to morale at that point? Once he is a Lone Wolf he is no longer considered part of the unit, as the unit is gone.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:30:05


Post by: beir


Ragnar69 wrote:
You can use the Lone Wolf strategem at the end of any phase. So if the unit lost too many models simply use it at the end of the Morale phase.


Ahh that makes sense. I had read it as needing to be at the end of the phase in which the unit was reduced to one model.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:38:38


Post by: Northern85Star


The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:49:46


Post by: beir


Anyone else notice that our cataphractii and tartaros terminators can't take wolf claws, only lightning claws? Lame.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 13:55:16


Post by: Garrlor


Northern85Star wrote:
The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


Simply because he becomes a character and therefore a completely new unit. You only need to take the morale test for the unit that lost models as per the BRB. Fluff wise, all his pack dies in the shooting phase, he makes a unbreakable vow to avenge them and fights on. I didnt mean he becomes immune to morale completely, just the effects of the morale phase in this instance. It probably does need a faq to clear up mind you.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:05:43


Post by: gwarsh41


 beir wrote:
Anyone else notice that our cataphractii and tartaros terminators can't take wolf claws, only lightning claws? Lame.


I did not, but I did notice they have a ++3 save by default. Is that standard for Cataphractii lords, or unique to wolves?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:10:30


Post by: Northern85Star


 Garrlor wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


Simply because he becomes a character and therefore a completely new unit. You only need to take the morale test for the unit that lost models as per the BRB. Fluff wise, all his pack dies in the shooting phase, he makes a unbreakable vow to avenge them and fights on. I didnt mean he becomes immune to morale completely, just the effects of the morale phase in this instance. It probably does need a faq to clear up mind you.


Yeah, the stratagem just says he gains the character keyword (ie: in addition to any the unit already has). So as per now i think the unit needs to take a morale test :/


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:12:31


Post by: jcd386


tneva82 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Saga of the beastslayer. If the chap dread kills a monster or vehicle, then all units within 6” gets +1 to wound against monsters and vehicles. The chap dread has 2 LCs and the relic stormbolter, which all works nicely with the warlord trait.

In this way i see his potential, but not in a melee oriented army. It has to be a list that tries to get enemy key units down asap from range.


Gotcha. Yeah that's not terrible against certain lists with vehicles that aren't too hard to crack. A bit of luck needed to have him be the one who gets the kill, but should be doable.


Plus it will start working turn 2 which means dread or long fangs could be dead in an edition where first 2 turns are generally the big ones, maybe turn 3

edit: Whoops dread isn't dying quickly


Yeah I think long fang durability is a definite issue. Once they start shooting I can't see them not being focused down pretty quickly.

One thing I think has a lot of value for space wolves is the ability to spend 1 CP to keep a beefy long fang squad of the table and then outflank it into your own deployment zone on the first turn. You can then spend another CP to shoot with no penalties.

Rhinos or razorbacks can also work for this to some extent, but only one unit can avoid the penalties.

For this reason it really seems like the value of long fang squads starts going down significantly the more of them you take.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Northern85Star wrote:
 Garrlor wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


Simply because he becomes a character and therefore a completely new unit. You only need to take the morale test for the unit that lost models as per the BRB. Fluff wise, all his pack dies in the shooting phase, he makes a unbreakable vow to avenge them and fights on. I didnt mean he becomes immune to morale completely, just the effects of the morale phase in this instance. It probably does need a faq to clear up mind you.


Yeah, the stratagem just says he gains the character keyword (ie: in addition to any the unit already has). So as per now i think the unit needs to take a morale test :/


It definitely has to take a morale test. If it passes then you can lone Wolf him.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:24:24


Post by: gwarsh41


Hopefully the lone wolf strat will get an FAQ to build in "auto pass moral" otherwise it's uses will be far and few between. Maybe if you run MSU troops it would be easier.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:31:10


Post by: Garrlor


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Northern85Star wrote:
 Garrlor wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


Simply because he becomes a character and therefore a completely new unit. You only need to take the morale test for the unit that lost models as per the BRB. Fluff wise, all his pack dies in the shooting phase, he makes a unbreakable vow to avenge them and fights on. I didnt mean he becomes immune to morale completely, just the effects of the morale phase in this instance. It probably does need a faq to clear up mind you.


Yeah, the stratagem just says he gains the character keyword (ie: in addition to any the unit already has). So as per now i think the unit needs to take a morale test :/


It definitely has to take a morale test. If it passes then you can lone Wolf him.


They need to FAQ it so that he gains the character keyword and the Lone Wolf keyword, meaning he is RAW no longer part of the unit. RAI you can see it is meant to happen at any point in any phase, making him into a spectre of vengance that wont run away because his pack died, the exact opposite.

Reading the strategem and its description, it is used at the end of any phase so it makes no sense to have a model become a character with improved wounds then run away in the morale phase not avenging the pack that he swore to avenge by becoming a Lone Wolf...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
Hopefully the lone wolf strat will get an FAQ to build in "auto pass moral" otherwise it's uses will be far and few between. Maybe if you run MSU troops it would be easier.


It just needs a rule that it becomes a new unit with the Lone Wolf keyword, therefore new unit and no morale test needed.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:48:39


Post by: COLD CASH


Im currently using a plastic dread converted with bitz from the ven dread box as a wolfpriest dread. Ill paint it black and gold following old Ulriks scheme.

Think it looks cool with claws and double las.

Chopped up a redemptor(ezybuild) and added the guns from the mantic games forgefather(rapier thingee) and the engine of the stormfang as the faceplate looks means as all hell, not the best conversion ive ever done but also quite a difficult one for a noob converter so in all its rough in patches but at a distance its very imposing and impressive.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 14:54:14


Post by: beir


 gwarsh41 wrote:
 beir wrote:
Anyone else notice that our cataphractii and tartaros terminators can't take wolf claws, only lightning claws? Lame.


I did not, but I did notice they have a ++3 save by default. Is that standard for Cataphractii lords, or unique to wolves?


Oops


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 15:02:13


Post by: Northern85Star


It’s a combination of cataphractii armor and the belt of russ, so since other chapters have similar rules it ought to be standard.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 17:19:33


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 ulfhednir86 wrote:
 beir wrote:
After playing my first game with the new codex tonight, I ran across a problem with the Lone Wolf stratagems that I didn't consider before

The last surviving model in a unit has a good chance of failing a morale check. Your super awesome new lone wolf character may just run away after going super sayian. I think this needs an FAQ - the new Lone Wolf should be immune to morale checks imo.


There are a few stratagems to auto pass moral to save him.


P.S can people stop bringing up the chap dread? its not fluffy for wolves nor is it usable in tournaments and FW sucks (note their index's)

Well I'm quite sure Space Wolves have stuck Wolf Priests in Dreads before. The Chaplain Dread doesn't function the same as a regular Chaplain so I wouldn't expect any Wolf Priest Dread to act the same.

Also why isn't it usable in tournaments? Seems like a cool gimmick to consider actually.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 17:26:43


Post by: Niiai


Are not the rhinoes taller then long fangs? Just park them in front and move them begore you shoot.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 18:07:19


Post by: Azuza001


So went to a 1500 pt tournament yesterday, went 0 and 3. I didnt have a lot of time to make a list after the codex dropped so i just threw something together. 2 large longfang packs, njal, herald deathwolf, 15 grey hunters, 2 rhinos, wolf guard battle leader, and 5 wolfen.

I normally got the +1 to going first with so few drops but it never mattered, first game vs guard i rolled a 6 to go first, other 2 games i rolled a 1 both times. My rolling was absolutely horrible all day, i never made a charge out of outflanking the wolfen and herald on all 3 games (I know 9 isnt the easist to get but out of 13 attempts all day not to get a single 9? Yeah, that was my day lol)

I won't go into details on how the games went but i do want to say some things that i noticed vs before.

1. Wolfen are still great. 5 of them, 4 with storm shields, in my game vs guard were worth every point. Sure they failed their initial charge then got shot off the table BUT they took the entire guards force shooting at them to kill them. Over 1000 pts needed to kill 239 pts of guys? Yep, will take that trade every time.

2. Longfangs simply cant stand up to concentrated fire of any sort. I still like them but i dont think i will take more than 1 squad next time. Unless i go with a team with heavy bolters....

3. Our HQ's fed dont hold up. Compare to other specialty hq choices like Asreal or even what combos a blood angel captain can do (not talking about things like the cost / effectiveness of eldar hq's) our stuff isnt as good and is very expensive. I spent way too many points in this tournament on hq's i thought were cool and ended up very underwhelmed by them.

4. Mobility is still a problem. If we go 2nd and plan on using rhinos to move your infantry around the table thats probably not going to happen. As mentioned before in todays anti-knight mentality meta your rhinos wont last long enough to be successful. The one game i went first rushing them forward, dropping njal in, casting the storm spell and then popping the stratagem for -1 to hit worked perfectly, and the rhinos survived all game. But just like magnus, if you dont get a chance to power up they will die super quick.

5. We do not have enough cp to use these stratagems well. That Alitoc Flyer with -2 to hit needs to be delt with? 1cp to ignore minuses, 1cp for hellfire shells, 1cp for flak missile, thats what i spent on my 3 missile launcher / 1hb longfang team to blow it out of the sky. At that point i went from 7 to 4 cp.. doesnt leave enough to do it again and do anything else of value. And there were 2 of those ships i had to deal with, which didnt happen because reapers are still a huge issue and they like to kill longfangs dead.


So yeah, i think if we are going to be competitive at this point we need to take a hard look at what we do well and how to make it work. I dont like only having a chance if we go 1st, alpha forces are way to win or lose right away so maybe we need to soup to be competitive?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 18:23:07


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Sorry to see you didn't do very well in your tournament Azuza. I think not having a lot of time to build a list probably effected you, plus the bad rolling? I think the heroes need to be used to boost the rest of the force around them, not rely on them to solo an army. We don't have a Magnus sadly.

You're probably right about needing to soup to be "ultra competitive". I think that's Space Marine forces in general at the moment sadly.

I simply have not had time to really pour through the Codex and make a list. I got swamped with traveling and family issues, blah blah. I am hoping to really dig into it tonight and make a few lists so I know what to paint for the rest of the week.

Currently I am looking at stuffing Wulfen Dreads into drop pods along with some outflanking wulfen and bloodclaws. A little castle of longfangs and Predators should anchor the force. I need to point it out to see how it works though. It could be entirely unfeasible.

My other idea is similar to yours with the Rhino rush.

I think they really need to make some distinctions on the beta drop rules. Things like drop pods and outflanking through a strategem should get you around the turn 2 drop. Terminators teleporting in, jump packs dropping in should be the ones limited to turn 2. But that's just a complaint haha.

We shall see I suppose.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 18:38:33


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Azuza001 wrote:
So went to a 1500 pt tournament yesterday, went 0 and 3. I didnt have a lot of time to make a list after the codex dropped so i just threw something together. 2 large longfang packs, njal, herald deathwolf, 15 grey hunters, 2 rhinos, wolf guard battle leader, and 5 wolfen.

I normally got the +1 to going first with so few drops but it never mattered, first game vs guard i rolled a 6 to go first, other 2 games i rolled a 1 both times. My rolling was absolutely horrible all day, i never made a charge out of outflanking the wolfen and herald on all 3 games (I know 9 isnt the easist to get but out of 13 attempts all day not to get a single 9? Yeah, that was my day lol)

I won't go into details on how the games went but i do want to say some things that i noticed vs before.

1. Wolfen are still great. 5 of them, 4 with storm shields, in my game vs guard were worth every point. Sure they failed their initial charge then got shot off the table BUT they took the entire guards force shooting at them to kill them. Over 1000 pts needed to kill 239 pts of guys? Yep, will take that trade every time.

2. Longfangs simply cant stand up to concentrated fire of any sort. I still like them but i dont think i will take more than 1 squad next time. Unless i go with a team with heavy bolters....

3. Our HQ's fed dont hold up. Compare to other specialty hq choices like Asreal or even what combos a blood angel captain can do (not talking about things like the cost / effectiveness of eldar hq's) our stuff isnt as good and is very expensive. I spent way too many points in this tournament on hq's i thought were cool and ended up very underwhelmed by them.

4. Mobility is still a problem. If we go 2nd and plan on using rhinos to move your infantry around the table thats probably not going to happen. As mentioned before in todays anti-knight mentality meta your rhinos wont last long enough to be successful. The one game i went first rushing them forward, dropping njal in, casting the storm spell and then popping the stratagem for -1 to hit worked perfectly, and the rhinos survived all game. But just like magnus, if you dont get a chance to power up they will die super quick.

5. We do not have enough cp to use these stratagems well. That Alitoc Flyer with -2 to hit needs to be delt with? 1cp to ignore minuses, 1cp for hellfire shells, 1cp for flak missile, thats what i spent on my 3 missile launcher / 1hb longfang team to blow it out of the sky. At that point i went from 7 to 4 cp.. doesnt leave enough to do it again and do anything else of value. And there were 2 of those ships i had to deal with, which didnt happen because reapers are still a huge issue and they like to kill longfangs dead.


So yeah, i think if we are going to be competitive at this point we need to take a hard look at what we do well and how to make it work. I dont like only having a chance if we go 1st, alpha forces are way to win or lose right away so maybe we need to soup to be competitive?

Well part of your issue is how you decided to use your CP there. 2CP for the ignoring of the -2 + Flakk should be sufficient, and then all you need to do is bump the stats down enough that the shooting isn't a threat. Then you could've spent Helfire against something else.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 18:39:55


Post by: Doctor-boom


What do you guys gear up your imbeded wolf guards?
1. Stormshield and stormbolter
2. Terminator armor then ss and sb
3. Ss and combi plasma
4. thunderhammer and sb or ss
5. Other combination?

I thing 1. Is great for improving durability of a squad of gh or long fangs for just 23pts.
I have the feeling that not having a ss on the wolfguard is just not worth it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 18:55:56


Post by: jcd386


Doctor-boom wrote:
What do you guys gear up your imbeded wolf guards?
1. Stormshield and stormbolter
2. Terminator armor then ss and sb
3. Ss and combi plasma
4. thunderhammer and sb or ss
5. Other combination?

I thing 1. Is great for improving durability of a squad of gh or long fangs for just 23pts.
I have the feeling that not having a ss on the wolfguard is just not worth it.


I think just a hammer on blood claws or just a Combi plasma on grey hunters is enough. GH hammers have 1 less attack compare to BC, so I'd avoid that. I'd also think about hammer + Combi in a BC squad, but that starts getting pricey.

I don't like SS because you'll never risk it until he's the last guy left, and even then you're still likely to fail a 3+ at some point if the other player really wants him gone.

Adding a storm bolter to the hammer guy would be okay, but I'd put them on other units like HQs and vehicles first.

The SS/SB Combo is interesting, but I think I'd rather just take 2 more basic dudes for 26 points, or spend more points on a hammer or Combi weapon.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:07:16


Post by: Continuity


Azuza001 wrote:
So went to a 1500 pt tournament yesterday, went 0 and 3. I didnt have a lot of time to make a list after the codex dropped so i just threw something together. 2 large longfang packs, njal, herald deathwolf, 15 grey hunters, 2 rhinos, wolf guard battle leader, and 5 wolfen.

I normally got the +1 to going first with so few drops but it never mattered, first game vs guard i rolled a 6 to go first, other 2 games i rolled a 1 both times. My rolling was absolutely horrible all day, i never made a charge out of outflanking the wolfen and herald on all 3 games (I know 9 isnt the easist to get but out of 13 attempts all day not to get a single 9? Yeah, that was my day lol)

I won't go into details on how the games went but i do want to say some things that i noticed vs before.

1. Wolfen are still great. 5 of them, 4 with storm shields, in my game vs guard were worth every point. Sure they failed their initial charge then got shot off the table BUT they took the entire guards force shooting at them to kill them. Over 1000 pts needed to kill 239 pts of guys? Yep, will take that trade every time.

2. Longfangs simply cant stand up to concentrated fire of any sort. I still like them but i dont think i will take more than 1 squad next time. Unless i go with a team with heavy bolters....

3. Our HQ's fed dont hold up. Compare to other specialty hq choices like Asreal or even what combos a blood angel captain can do (not talking about things like the cost / effectiveness of eldar hq's) our stuff isnt as good and is very expensive. I spent way too many points in this tournament on hq's i thought were cool and ended up very underwhelmed by them.

4. Mobility is still a problem. If we go 2nd and plan on using rhinos to move your infantry around the table thats probably not going to happen. As mentioned before in todays anti-knight mentality meta your rhinos wont last long enough to be successful. The one game i went first rushing them forward, dropping njal in, casting the storm spell and then popping the stratagem for -1 to hit worked perfectly, and the rhinos survived all game. But just like magnus, if you dont get a chance to power up they will die super quick.

5. We do not have enough cp to use these stratagems well. That Alitoc Flyer with -2 to hit needs to be delt with? 1cp to ignore minuses, 1cp for hellfire shells, 1cp for flak missile, thats what i spent on my 3 missile launcher / 1hb longfang team to blow it out of the sky. At that point i went from 7 to 4 cp.. doesnt leave enough to do it again and do anything else of value. And there were 2 of those ships i had to deal with, which didnt happen because reapers are still a huge issue and they like to kill longfangs dead.


So yeah, i think if we are going to be competitive at this point we need to take a hard look at what we do well and how to make it work. I dont like only having a chance if we go 1st, alpha forces are way to win or lose right away so maybe we need to soup to be competitive?


Mono-marine lists will never be competitive with the current mechanics, the fact that all of our protection powers can only be used on our turn is a major weakness that other powerful factions have no trouble with (Elves get innate -1 and can use Lightning Fast Reflex when getting shot at, Plaguebearers get innate -1 and can use Warp Surge when on the opponent's turn, Knights can rotate ion shield, etc), so if we don't go first then we are getting a major beating every time.

You will find souping in IG to be a tempting option every time, but when you go down that route you'll quickly end up with no marines at all.

I think the most powerful build for SW at the moment should involve flyer alpha strike stacked with Cloak in Storm, take Stormwolves and Stormhawks and deploy them as far back as possible, fly them up the board on your turn with Rune priests in the middle providing -1 bubble and light them up, unload your wulfens, blood claws and other characters the follow turn. And take outflanking aggressors to clear chaff


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:07:25


Post by: Northern85Star


You know, if there is one thing we all agree on is working very good for us, it is outflanking wulfen. But the majority stick to one unit. Why not go three units, outflank them all, and see what happens?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:23:06


Post by: Azuza001


I have found if planning on using outflank as a force tactic with multiple units then you really need a durable anvil to survive until turn 2. Sadly i am at a lose as to what to pick for this job.

Another cheap (ish) option that i have had luck with in the past is the wolf scouts outflanking with 2 plasma pistols, a plasma gun, and a combi plasma on the battle leader. Almost always makes up its points when it comes off a side 9-12 inches and puts 6 str 8 ap-3 d2 shots into an enemy tank or some other unsuspecting enemy. Only runs 108ish points too.

But i really think the key will be to find a way to make our grey hunters work. Atm thats either food sloging (bad), rhino (easy target), or drop pod(seriously considering this one) but then your at 300 pts for 10 guys to get into position and get some use..... how many guardsmen do you get for 300 pts again?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:27:28


Post by: Northern85Star


How about outflanking GH with full plasma, instead of scouts?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:33:45


Post by: Ulfhednar_42


Northern85Star wrote:
How about outflanking GH with full plasma, instead of scouts?


One of the few spots where I'd go Hellblasters instead... 15" double-taps and an extra -1 on the AP.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:43:28


Post by: Azuza001


Well the scouts get outflank for free vs spending a cp, but thats a good idea. Same with the hellblasters. Would force the enemy to really protect the board edges.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 19:55:06


Post by: Northern85Star


Im just trying to get the best out of GHs here people!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 20:00:32


Post by: Ragnar69


I prefer WG with jump packs, chainswords and combi-plasmas over helblasters. Drop them t2 close to your advancing wolf Lord and battle leader and have fun.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 20:05:19


Post by: Azuza001


Lol i hear ya. I am thinking of getting a small guard detachment for the cp then using the guard cp to pay for grey hunters outflanking. Get some whirlwinds and basilisks for clearing a drop in spot t1 then t2 hitting them with a mass amount of outflanking. That may work best.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 20:38:34


Post by: Garrlor


Made a quick list for a laugh. Not got current points but would certainly cause some headscratching.

Bonus is you can also outflank one of the wulfen units rather than transport them to keep your opponent guessing!


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [65 PL, 1131pts] ++

+ HQ +

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [6 PL, 99pts]: Jump Packs, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Wolf Lord [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Packs, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Blood Claws [15 PL, 229pts]
. 13x Blood Claw
. Blood Claw Pack Leader: Chainsword
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Blood Claws [4 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Blood Claw
. Blood Claw Pack Leader: Chainsword

Blood Claws [4 PL, 65pts]
. 4x Blood Claw
. Blood Claw Pack Leader: Chainsword

+ Elites +

Wulfen [13 PL, 235pts]
. Great frost axe
. 3x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 3x Storm Shield, 3x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

Wulfen [13 PL, 235pts]
. Great frost axe
. 3x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 3x Storm Shield, 3x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

+ Dedicated Transport +

Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: 2x Storm bolter

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [42 PL, 867pts] ++

+ Flyer +

Stormfang Gunship [14 PL, 309pts]: Helfrost destructor
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

Stormwolf [14 PL, 279pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

Stormwolf [14 PL, 279pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [107 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 20:42:11


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


I really like the idea of the chaplain dreadnought kitted out for murder. Make it your warlord with saga of the beastslayer, give it a twin lascannon and the relic storm bolter and watch this boy WORK. 1CP he gets the wolf lord aura and 1 CP he can ignore all negatives to hit to really give someone a bad day with his 2+ to hit re-rolling. He's also heroically intervening six big boy inches to punch someone with a super angry fist. Shooting wise he would do well against monsters and vehicles due to his warlord trait giving him +1 to wound monsters and vehicles so nearly anything is getting wounded on a 2+ by the lascannon and 4+ by the bolter. For 212 points he is a pretty solid pick for a tanky and reliable warlord who can really dish out damage at range and melee.

Character protection, 9 wounds with a 6+++, 4 attacks s14 ap-3 3 damage at WS 2+ (or 1+ to avoid - to hit modifiers) on top of the relic bolter and two lascannon shots and a plethora of good stratagems makes this an awesome sounding choice. The only thing that makes me sad about it is that I primarily play Primaris and Deathwatch are better at that than space wolves so I'll get very limited use out of this guy.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 21:04:31


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


 Garrlor wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


Simply because he becomes a character and therefore a completely new unit. You only need to take the morale test for the unit that lost models as per the BRB. Fluff wise, all his pack dies in the shooting phase, he makes a unbreakable vow to avenge them and fights on. I didnt mean he becomes immune to morale completely, just the effects of the morale phase in this instance. It probably does need a faq to clear up mind you.

This makes logical sense not just fluff sense. why would they make a stratagem allowing this to happen if the character would just die to rmorale anyway? This is another case of read as intended because it makes sense.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 21:22:24


Post by: Azuza001


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
 Garrlor wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
The stratagem actually just says that the model gains the character keyword, how does that make him immune to morale?


Simply because he becomes a character and therefore a completely new unit. You only need to take the morale test for the unit that lost models as per the BRB. Fluff wise, all his pack dies in the shooting phase, he makes a unbreakable vow to avenge them and fights on. I didnt mean he becomes immune to morale completely, just the effects of the morale phase in this instance. It probably does need a faq to clear up mind you.

This makes logical sense not just fluff sense. why would they make a stratagem allowing this to happen if the character would just die to rmorale anyway? This is another case of read as intended because it makes sense.


I would love if it was the case but raw it doesnt work that way. Nothing says becoming a character makes him a new unit, you are adding a keyword and new wounds to an exsisting unit that has dropped to 1 model. So as others have said, wait until you pass the moral or spend cp to autp pass, but you have to do it. I hope a faq gives us a pass on it, for the requirments to be met and since we already have to spend cp to do it it does make sense.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 21:31:37


Post by: Northern85Star


The logical thing is that you use the same datasheet, then just add the keyword “character”, increase W by 2, and the abilities to reroll to hit and to wound.

Let’s say he’s a GH. He is still a GH, a troop choice etc. He is still the same unit as he uses the same datasheet, but abilities have beem added. Nothing indicates that he is an entirely new unit, only that some things have been added to the units datasheet (and this can only proc when there is 1 model left).

I hope they FAQ it. It also makes the stratagem more powerful, as the unit autopasses the morale check with the stratagem for 1 cp. But i would rather have it not auto pass morale for 1 cp, than auto pass for 2 cp, for example.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 21:47:12


Post by: jcd386


I don't think it's an oversight. When a marine squad gets reduced to 1 man, sometimes the last guy runs away, even with space wolves. Other times the last guy doesn't run away, and space wolves have to cool option to let him get mad about it.

If they changed it to make it even better i wouldn't complain, but it's not like it doesn't currently;y work as intended.

I'm much more upset about the massive nerf to the auto-pass morale warlord trait before the book was even out -P


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 23:13:29


Post by: beir


Has anyone tried an imperial bastion with their Long Fangs? Now that they are a centerpiece unit, paying a couple hundred points for 20 more T9 wounds doesn't sound too bad...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 23:16:25


Post by: ZergSmasher


 beir wrote:
Has anyone tried an imperial bastion with their Long Fangs? Now that they are a centerpiece unit, paying a couple hundred points for 20 more T9 wounds doesn't sound too bad...

Might even make a good place to hide a Rune Priest if your opponent has a Dominus Knight.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 23:40:02


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 ZergSmasher wrote:
 beir wrote:
Has anyone tried an imperial bastion with their Long Fangs? Now that they are a centerpiece unit, paying a couple hundred points for 20 more T9 wounds doesn't sound too bad...

Might even make a good place to hide a Rune Priest if your opponent has a Dominus Knight.

Would the Rune Priest be able to give it that tasty -1 to hit?

I don't own the second imperial index though so I don't know how Fortifications work. It seems like an expensive way to try and protect your Long Fangs...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/27 23:44:18


Post by: beir


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
 beir wrote:
Has anyone tried an imperial bastion with their Long Fangs? Now that they are a centerpiece unit, paying a couple hundred points for 20 more T9 wounds doesn't sound too bad...

Might even make a good place to hide a Rune Priest if your opponent has a Dominus Knight.

Would the Rune Priest be able to give it that tasty -1 to hit?

I don't own the second imperial index though so I don't know how Fortifications work. It seems like an expensive way to try and protect your Long Fangs...


Aura effects don't work when you're inside a building or a transport and the bastion isn't a <Space Wolves> unit, so no.

It's cheaper than a second set of Long Fangs and has a lot more survivability. I think I might try it out. I've been wanting to paint one up for my army for a long time anyway.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 00:44:49


Post by: Azuza001


HOWEVER I must point out out chooser of the slain stratagem works for any friendly unit next to the rune priest.

"Thats a really nice unit you just dropped in.... hey isnt that a nice unit Tank Commander Pask? Would be a shame if Pask shot the crap out of it RIGHT NOW!"

Just saying, if we have to go soup to be honestly competitive we should look at how things can work together.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 00:58:16


Post by: BrianDavion


Azuza001 wrote:
HOWEVER I must point out out chooser of the slain stratagem works for any friendly unit next to the rune priest.

"Thats a really nice unit you just dropped in.... hey isnt that a nice unit Tank Commander Pask? Would be a shame if Pask shot the crap out of it RIGHT NOW!"

Just saying, if we have to go soup to be honestly competitive we should look at how things can work together.


agreed, unless/until that gets FAQed, A rune Preist will be a good go to for space wolves compeitiveness.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 00:59:13


Post by: Niiai


Northern85Star wrote:
You know, if there is one thing we all agree on is working very good for us, it is outflanking wulfen. But the majority stick to one unit. Why not go three units, outflank them all, and see what happens?


I thought we did outflanking primaris well? Just walk on and shoot. Also dropping jumping wolf guards with storm boltersbor combi plasma.

Long fang heavy bolters seem cool.

Do we also do dreadnoughts well?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 01:46:42


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Niiai wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
You know, if there is one thing we all agree on is working very good for us, it is outflanking wulfen. But the majority stick to one unit. Why not go three units, outflank them all, and see what happens?


I thought we did outflanking primaris well? Just walk on and shoot. Also dropping jumping wolf guards with storm boltersbor combi plasma.

Long fang heavy bolters seem cool.

Do we also do dreadnoughts well?


Bjorn do very well. He got a points drop now, so he could be even better than before. Wuflen Dread are bad.

I think the only Primaris that looks good for Space Wolf would be the Reviers. Their shock grenades can neutralize enemy overwatch, esoecially the painful Heavy Flamer, Tzeentch Flamer, IK super flamer and Tau FW Riptide Plasma flamer things. They also drop enemy Ld by 1 for being close iirc, so it synergize well with the wolf lord "owwooo" stratagem making the morale phase more painful for the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For outflanking shooty units, I think the Longfang with Multimelta could be the best. making anywhere within 18" of the board edge not safe for enemy "big bads". Making them to deploy in the centre, and the Wuflen / TWC to move up to crush them.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 02:38:54


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Multi-Melta is still garbage. Avoid those.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 05:54:26


Post by: tneva82


jcd386 wrote:
Rhinos or razorbacks can also work for this to some extent, but only one unit can avoid the penalties.

For this reason it really seems like the value of long fang squads starts going down significantly the more of them you take.


That's fairly common pattern with 8th ed due to unscalability of psychic powers/strategems which also means game doesn't work that well in bigger/smaller games. 1 knight errant can be good. 2 is less hot. 3 and you are basically having mediocre knight or two in the field.

Funnily enough GW wanted to move away deathstar type of units and then introduced strategems that encourage death star style builds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Niiai wrote:
Are not the rhinoes taller then long fangs? Just park them in front and move them begore you shoot.


Remember to park it sideways least enemy draw LOS to the long fangs UNDER the rhino though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
HOWEVER I must point out out chooser of the slain stratagem works for any friendly unit next to the rune priest.

"Thats a really nice unit you just dropped in.... hey isnt that a nice unit Tank Commander Pask? Would be a shame if Pask shot the crap out of it RIGHT NOW!"

Just saying, if we have to go soup to be honestly competitive we should look at how things can work together.


agreed, unless/until that gets FAQed, A rune Preist will be a good go to for space wolves compeitiveness.


Yeah. If you have models already feel free to use it but I would be wary of buying anything expensive with that in mind...Wonder how many chaos players bought Mortarion/Magnus for deep striking only to be denied that


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 09:19:41


Post by: Northern85Star


Interestingly, wolf guard on bikes costs 36 pts in the index, while he costs 32 pts as part of a swiftclaw unit in the codex. A shame the unit wasnt included in the codex with the pts drop.



For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 10:59:03


Post by: jcd386


And for some reason wolf scout bikers are 31 points. I guess they are really paying for that outflank ability.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 11:03:16


Post by: Brickolage


 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I really like the idea of the chaplain dreadnought kitted out for murder. Make it your warlord with saga of the beastslayer, give it a twin lascannon and the relic storm bolter and watch this boy WORK. 1CP he gets the wolf lord aura and 1 CP he can ignore all negatives to hit to really give someone a bad day with his 2+ to hit re-rolling. He's also heroically intervening six big boy inches to punch someone with a super angry fist. Shooting wise he would do well against monsters and vehicles due to his warlord trait giving him +1 to wound monsters and vehicles so nearly anything is getting wounded on a 2+ by the lascannon and 4+ by the bolter. For 212 points he is a pretty solid pick for a tanky and reliable warlord who can really dish out damage at range and melee.

Character protection, 9 wounds with a 6+++, 4 attacks s14 ap-3 3 damage at WS 2+ (or 1+ to avoid - to hit modifiers) on top of the relic bolter and two lascannon shots and a plethora of good stratagems makes this an awesome sounding choice. The only thing that makes me sad about it is that I primarily play Primaris and Deathwatch are better at that than space wolves so I'll get very limited use out of this guy.


Yes, this may be one of the few places where the relic stormbolter has some use. Another one would be to give him the armor of russ, for improving the invulnerable save as well as shutting down units. I'd like to see him tag-team with Bjorn, feeding off each other's auras. Giving Bjorn twin las means that if you get the deed of legend on the chaplain you now have even more reliable punch out of him. One problem with this combo, however, is that you spend alot of points on lascannons on two units that want to get stuck in.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 11:11:22


Post by: jcd386


tneva82 wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Rhinos or razorbacks can also work for this to some extent, but only one unit can avoid the penalties.

For this reason it really seems like the value of long fang squads starts going down significantly the more of them you take.


That's fairly common pattern with 8th ed due to unscalability of psychic powers/strategems which also means game doesn't work that well in bigger/smaller games. 1 knight errant can be good. 2 is less hot. 3 and you are basically having mediocre knight or two in the field.

Funnily enough GW wanted to move away deathstar type of units and then introduced strategems that encourage death star style builds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Niiai wrote:
Are not the rhinoes taller then long fangs? Just park them in front and move them begore you shoot.


Remember to park it sideways least enemy draw LOS to the long fangs UNDER the rhino though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
HOWEVER I must point out out chooser of the slain stratagem works for any friendly unit next to the rune priest.

"Thats a really nice unit you just dropped in.... hey isnt that a nice unit Tank Commander Pask? Would be a shame if Pask shot the crap out of it RIGHT NOW!"

Just saying, if we have to go soup to be honestly competitive we should look at how things can work together.


agreed, unless/until that gets FAQed, A rune Preist will be a good go to for space wolves compeitiveness.


Yeah. If you have models already feel free to use it but I would be wary of buying anything expensive with that in mind...Wonder how many chaos players bought Mortarion/Magnus for deep striking only to be denied that


Your definition of a death star might be different than mine lol. I actually like how most of the good strategems promote you to take certain units, but don't reward you for spamming that unit. There are still issues, like just doing the best strategem combos in one book and allying in the best combos from another book, or when the units being buffed by strategems are already undercosted, but overall I like it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 11:18:42


Post by: tneva82


Spamming 1 unit is pretty much not deathstar...Deathstar is one expensive unit with all the bells&whistles. Funny that strategems that work on 1 unit is just designed for death stars...

Spamming 1 unit ad infinum creates multiple units which is pretty much opposite of death star. Multiple weaker units vs one big one.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 12:25:22


Post by: Weazel


So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 13:20:28


Post by: Niiai


Jcd, you can not trace line of sight under the rhino if it stands sideways. And that does not come into the debate if you can trace los to and from bases.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 14:03:28


Post by: gwarsh41


Azuza001 wrote:
HOWEVER I must point out out chooser of the slain stratagem works for any friendly unit next to the rune priest.

"Thats a really nice unit you just dropped in.... hey isnt that a nice unit Tank Commander Pask? Would be a shame if Pask shot the crap out of it RIGHT NOW!"

Just saying, if we have to go soup to be honestly competitive we should look at how things can work together.


In 2 weeks I'll be deciding whether or not to buy a big scary superheavy. Until then, the FW tanks will do pretty nicely, even if the FAQ says they must be SW. The Sicaran's are dope, Leviathans are nasty, and the Scorpius is pretty sweet at infantry killing.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 14:24:56


Post by: Azuza001


Lol i didnt even think about superheavys. I may have to get a knight now....... nah, gw will definitely faq that loophole out right? I mean, cant have space marines kicking ass.....

So this is what i am thinking about now for a 1500 pt list. I always start there and then fill out the other 250/500 pts based on feedback/looking at the main forces weaknesses.


Spoiler:


Space Wolves : 5 cp

Hq:
Rune priest : Jump Pack, Runic Staff, Psycic Hood, Armor of Russ
Wolf Guard Battle Leader : 2 chainswords

Troops:
Grey Hunters : 9 hunters, 2 with plasma, 1 with plasma pistols, 1 Wgbl with combi plasma
Grey Hunters : 9 hunters, 2 with plasma, 1 with plasma pistols, 1 Wgbl with combi plasma
Grey Hunters : 9 hunters, 2 with plasma, 1 with plasma pistols, 1 Wgbl with combi plasma

Heavy Support:
Whirlwind : Vengence Missiles
Whirlwind : Vengence Missiles
Whirlwind : Vengence Missiles



Imperial Guard: 5 Cp

Hq:
Company Commander
Lord Commisar

Troops:
Infantry Squad: 9 men, 1 srg
Infantry Squad: 9 men, 1 srg
Infantry Squad: 9 men, 1 srg

Fast attack:
Scout sentinal : autocannon
Scout sentinal : autocannon
Scout sentinal : autocannon

Heavy Support:
Basilisk



Plan is to have the ig infantry cover the backfield / back objectives. Have the whirlwinds and basilisk hide with the wolf guard battle leader and rain down a landing zone for my outflankers, and outflank all the grey hunters and deep stike the rune priest.

I am thinking of putting heavy weapons into the guard infantry for additonal fire support. I think i am missing out on real anti tank, but the plasma could tip the balance if that becomes an issue. Thoughts welcomed.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 15:08:54


Post by: Ragnar69


I would say there is absolutely nothing scary in your list. Knights will just stomp over it. Hiding 4 tanks out of LOS is probably impossible (especialy when they want to use the BLs aura) and finding good spots to outflank 31 models to ain't easy either. Clearing an area completely is difficult, even with 4 artilleries. Just 1 survivor will spoil your plan.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 15:23:27


Post by: Azuza001


So what would you suggest gets replaced/ done? Like i said i have another 550ish points to spend here.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 15:37:14


Post by: jcd386


I don't think you want to outflank 25% or more of your army. It's basically a much weaker form of deepstrike, and it is very easy for the other player to block out their back board edge and force you to hit useless units on their sides.

I think the most powerful use for outflank is hiding long fangs from alpha strike or moving onto objectives out table quarters late game with GH/BC squads. So I think you want to keep the outflanking GH/BC squads pretty minimal so you can afford to wait unit the right time. Plus, if the other player does leave their back field open, most of the time a small unit will be effective enough at locking things up and causing trouble without hampering the rest of your army.

For grey hunters, I think you pretty much have to take transports to help get the plasma where it needs to be. Otherwise it costs too much.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 15:38:48


Post by: Ragnar69


Battlecribe has ben updated, Relics are still missing though.

I think our strenghts lie in the combination of a solid shooty base combined with melee supported by characters.

I would take at least 2 melee characters, 1 unit of wulfen and 1 maxed LF unit as a must have core.

Single cybers (or even pairs now they have LD6) are always great. They can be used to deny the board for DS, grab objectives or be placed at the front to absorb smites or something angry trying to charge you.

Im not sure how to use GHs yet. Maybe I can squeeze in 6 min squads with a plasma each to get 2 battaillions.

If you want to take guard, think about taking a tank commander. And I would rather take more basiliks than whirlwinds. Make them Catachen to get more shots and add Harker for his aura.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 16:35:17


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?

Main thing is, if you want a melee dread that badly, you NEED the extra move and rerolling charges. Plus a 4++ is much better than a 6+++.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 16:44:56


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


Brickolage wrote:
 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I really like the idea of the chaplain dreadnought kitted out for murder. Make it your warlord with saga of the beastslayer, give it a twin lascannon and the relic storm bolter and watch this boy WORK. 1CP he gets the wolf lord aura and 1 CP he can ignore all negatives to hit to really give someone a bad day with his 2+ to hit re-rolling. He's also heroically intervening six big boy inches to punch someone with a super angry fist. Shooting wise he would do well against monsters and vehicles due to his warlord trait giving him +1 to wound monsters and vehicles so nearly anything is getting wounded on a 2+ by the lascannon and 4+ by the bolter. For 212 points he is a pretty solid pick for a tanky and reliable warlord who can really dish out damage at range and melee.

Character protection, 9 wounds with a 6+++, 4 attacks s14 ap-3 3 damage at WS 2+ (or 1+ to avoid - to hit modifiers) on top of the relic bolter and two lascannon shots and a plethora of good stratagems makes this an awesome sounding choice. The only thing that makes me sad about it is that I primarily play Primaris and Deathwatch are better at that than space wolves so I'll get very limited use out of this guy.


Yes, this may be one of the few places where the relic stormbolter has some use. Another one would be to give him the armor of russ, for improving the invulnerable save as well as shutting down units. I'd like to see him tag-team with Bjorn, feeding off each other's auras. Giving Bjorn twin las means that if you get the deed of legend on the chaplain you now have even more reliable punch out of him. One problem with this combo, however, is that you spend alot of points on lascannons on two units that want to get stuck in.


I just imagine two totally Chad dreadnoughts just high fiving every time they kill something. "For the Wolf Time brooo. Chaa man." Queue a rhino driving by "Surfs up dude!" Bjorn jumps on the back and rides it into battle. Chaplain dread sits back "Gnarly!" and aggressively waddles after him.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 16:59:12


Post by: Weazel


One thing that irritates me about pruning the options "not in a kit". There does not exist a kit for Skyclaws or Swiftclaws. Technically you can build Skyclaws from Assault Marines (yet the picture of them are kitbashed from SW kit with a jump pack) or by buying the jump packs separately, so I guess that's not a problem.

Where it gets more dubious is when you start looking at the options of Swiftclaws and check the appalling amount of options in the Biker kit, you'll soon realize the only way to build Swiftclaws is by kitbashing. OMG. So intimidating for a beginner hobbyist!

Well the point is if there's a unit that has to be kitbashed (which kinda defeats the purpose or reasoning of their option pruning), why did Wolf Guard and characters lose the option to take a bike?

I'm calling shenanigans.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 17:01:05


Post by: Azuza001


My problem with taking the transports is the cost, your looking at almost 275 pts a squad at that point for 7 plasma shots. If i was going to do that why not take terminators with combi plasma and deep strike? The idea was to find a use for gh and a way to get them into a useful position.

I understand what your saying about the enemy covering the backfield with stuff to stop them all from coming in, but thats why i brought the artillery. Clear out a spot t1 so t2 there is a place to move in also i can always come in on a side that is between our deplpyment zones, it doesnt have to be in theres.

With 550 pts left to spend i was thinking a stormwolf or longfangs and thunderwolves.

I know basilisks are stronger, but i was trying to keep the list space wolves predominantly. However i could put a 2nd one in as well with the extra 500 pts.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 17:32:48


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


What does everyone think of say.. a squad of Landspeeders with multimeltas?

Speed them forward, 3 multimeltas (maybe something else too) and use keen senses to take away the -1 to hit when moving.

I feel like they're small enough to hide on a flank and keeping them in a unit of 3 gives them all the ability to remove the -1 to hit from keen senses.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 17:38:58


Post by: Azuza001


I always use my land speeder with twin heavy flamer, it used to be good but at this point its just a bit too expensive.

Look at it like this. If you do what your thinking your talking about 3 multimelta shots for 300ish points. Why not do the long fangs with multimeltas outflanking at that cost? You can use the same strat to ignore the -1 to hit.

Honestly i was thinking about this and the hemlock flyers eldar use. My oppent always flys them at -2 to hit forward t1 and ends up blowing valuable stuff away. But he also tends to end up with one of them near a table edge. 4 multimeltas should be able to make a hemlock pay, wouldnt you think?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 17:40:46


Post by: jcd386


Azuza001 wrote:
My problem with taking the transports is the cost, your looking at almost 275 pts a squad at that point for 7 plasma shots. If i was going to do that why not take terminators with combi plasma and deep strike? The idea was to find a use for gh and a way to get them into a useful position.

I understand what your saying about the enemy covering the backfield with stuff to stop them all from coming in, but thats why i brought the artillery. Clear out a spot t1 so t2 there is a place to move in also i can always come in on a side that is between our deplpyment zones, it doesnt have to be in theres.

With 550 pts left to spend i was thinking a stormwolf or longfangs and thunderwolves.

I know basilisks are stronger, but i was trying to keep the list space wolves predominantly. However i could put a 2nd one in as well with the extra 500 pts.


The issue with the "clear the chaff" idea is that your opponent always gets a turn of movement between you killing stuff and your guys dropping in. This means they will almost always be able to shift things around to mitigate your damage. This is also true for deepstrike, but harder to do because deepstrikers can drop anywhere. For outflank, two cheap units capping a line of vehicles is all that you need.

Additionally, unless you outflank Ragnar or Wulfen with GH/BC, they are going to fail their charges more often than not, and you can only reroll one of those with the strategem. So you risk having an expensive squad show up and do very little.

I think if you want to outflank things, you either need to go all in and bring a way to reroll those charges for big units of GH or BC, or only take a very small squad to show up and be annoying. A naked squad of 5 blood claws with an axe or first locks up vehicles about as well as anything else, for a lot less. They also beat up basic troop units well enough to require some attention. And if they do fail their charge it won't ruin you.

Rhinos are expensive but I think having 1-2 is okay. You also probably want other threats that compete for your opponents good guns like TWC, fliers, Wulfen, or dreads.

That bring said I also don't think SW can afford to spend too many points on their troops. They do decent damage in CC which is refreshing for a marine player, but they still have all the durability issues of Marines, and get expensive fast. After a lot of mucking around with lists, I am beginning to think the best SW troop unit might be 5 blood claws with a power fist or 5 grey hunters with a plasma gun and pistol. Outflank them and/or throw two of them into a rhino, fill the battillion and call it a day. Then spend the rest of your points on stuff that's actually good. Pack leaders are nice, especially the blood claw ones with three hammer attacks, so I think you can take them if you want to, but it's annoying fitting squads of 6 into rhinos, and they get pricey quickly.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 17:54:01


Post by: Northern85Star


Landspeeders got 10 pts cheaper. Still very expensive, but i plan on making three just because turn one 6xheavy flamer sounds fun.. and it’s a unit that has to be dealt with quickly.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 18:12:32


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Azuza001 wrote:
I always use my land speeder with twin heavy flamer, it used to be good but at this point its just a bit too expensive.

Look at it like this. If you do what your thinking your talking about 3 multimelta shots for 300ish points. Why not do the long fangs with multimeltas outflanking at that cost? You can use the same strat to ignore the -1 to hit.

Honestly i was thinking about this and the hemlock flyers eldar use. My oppent always flys them at -2 to hit forward t1 and ends up blowing valuable stuff away. But he also tends to end up with one of them near a table edge. 4 multimeltas should be able to make a hemlock pay, wouldnt you think?


I see your point. It's a little below 300. It's the speed that got my attention. I also, for some reason, like whirlwinds. And there's a nice stratagem we have now that combines the two.

I would like to think 4 multi-meltas could do something to a hemlock, especially with keen senses.

Northern85Star wrote:
Landspeeders got 10 pts cheauote]per. Still very expensive, but i plan on making three just because turn one 6xheavy flamer sounds fun.. and it’s a unit that has to be dealt with quickly.


Slight problem here... I know battlescribe just got updated so you can do what you're saying but they tend to get things wrong so I am double checking against the Codex quite a bit still. It appears our Landspeeders can't take double heavy flamer, nor double multimelta. We can replace the heavy bolter with a multimelta. Or add another weapon, AC, HF, Typhoon. So you'll only have one heavy flamer.

Unless I am reading it wrong?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 18:25:38


Post by: Ordana


 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?
Agreed. The main problem is getting the dread into combat. 2" more movement and re-rolling charges does that better then 6+++ (1 wound extra on average) and 1 turn of smoke.

A wulfen dread is much more likely to actually make a turn 2 charge.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 18:42:33


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


 Ordana wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?
Agreed. The main problem is getting the dread into combat. 2" more movement and re-rolling charges does that better then 6+++ (1 wound extra on average) and 1 turn of smoke.

A wulfen dread is much more likely to actually make a turn 2 charge.


I also agree. It's also a much more viable dreadnought to stuff into the droppod for dreads. With the re-roll charge, you massively improve your chances to get a charge off.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 18:51:20


Post by: arhurt


Hey guys I have a 1000pts Throne of Skulls tournament coming in and was thinking of a list. Take a look and let me know what you think. Missions are Eternal War vanilla missions on 4x4 tables.

I won't bother you with full lists, but here are my thoughts.

Drop pod list
Ragnar, WGBL (TH/SS), Company Ancient, Blood Claws (WG w/TH, PL w/PF) drop from a Drop Pod (Missiles)
2x Grey Hunters (Termi WG w/Combi-Plasma, 1x Plasma Gun)
Long Fangs (Termie WG w/Cyclone Launcher, 2x Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher)

The plan here is to start the battle with the Grey Hunters and Long Fangs in cover to soak up fire with the terminator WG. Hold out until T2 comes and use Ragnar's re-roll on charge to increase the odds of my Blood Claw and WGBL connecting. From there they wreck face with covering fire from Grey Hunters and Long fangs.

Pros: Can't lose my charging units due to being in a drop pod.
Cons: Restricted to T2 assault, still rely on Deepstrike that can be screened-off. Affter dropping I have little mobility being on foot.

Stormwolf list
Wolf Lord (TH/SS), WGBL (Wolf Claws), 2x Blood Claws (Wg TH, Leader PF, 4x BC) riding a Stormwolf
Grey Hunters (Termi WG w/Combi-Plasma, 1x Plasma Gun)
Long Fangs (Termie WG w/Cyclone Launcher, Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher)

Plan is to deploy the Stormwolf away from enemy, then shoot and position so I won't need much charge distance.

Pros: Harder to deny my charge with screening.
Cons: Few bodies on T1 and of course, if the Stormwolf gets shot down in the corner of the table I might as well just walk off the table in disgust.

Chap Dread list
Chaplain Dread (twin Lascannon, relic bolter)
Rune Priest (Stormcaller, Wolf Spirits)
WGBL
3x Grey Hunters (WG w/Combi-plasma, Plasma gun)
Long Fangs (2x Lascannon, 2x Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher)

The Long Fangs varied weaponry make use of the Mortal Wound strats whenever possible and the Chap Dread can get everyone +1 to wound vehicles and monsters. The plan is to sit and shoot until major threats are down then move forward with Grey Hunters and the characters/Dread into CC if needed.

Pros: Heavier firepower that is hard to move due to being a character.
Cons: No mobility at all means that I have to footslog through enemy fire if I face enemies that won't come to me.

I'm not sure what to do at 1k points exactly. I sadly can't use my Thunderwolves and my Wulfen for they are conversions using non-GW parts that are not allowed in this event.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 18:51:31


Post by: Azuza001


The double flamer is an index option so its still legal on land speeders. I don't suggest making one unless you magnitize the weapons, but i already own 3 so have no issue suggesting it as an option. It will scare your opponent more than it should, so it does make a good distraction carnifex for the cost.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 20:57:54


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
What does everyone think of say.. a squad of Landspeeders with multimeltas?

Speed them forward, 3 multimeltas (maybe something else too) and use keen senses to take away the -1 to hit when moving.

I feel like they're small enough to hide on a flank and keeping them in a unit of 3 gives them all the ability to remove the -1 to hit from keen senses.

Multi-Meltas are still bad because 27 points for that weapon is stupid ridiculous.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:08:58


Post by: Northern85Star


One observation:

Rune priest on bike is the superior choice. More movement, more T, more W, twin bolters AND cheaper than jumppack variant.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:13:54


Post by: ikeulhu


Northern85Star wrote:
One observation:

Rune priest on bike is the superior choice. More movement, more T, more W, twin heavy bolters AND cheaper than jumppack variant.

True, but biker is more restricted by terrain. May not matter much depending on the table, but it is something to consider.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:16:33


Post by: tneva82


Yeah fly is pretty good ability. Also twin HEAVY bolters? Are wolves indeed able to give bikes with two HEAVY bolters in it?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:17:02


Post by: Northern85Star


I know, but he has a 20” move when he advances - and can still cast psychic powers. With living lightning and smite, he essentially is able to get in position of units hiding in buildings and smite them twice.

Twin bolters - still much better than when comparing to the slightly more expensive jump pack variant.

Just use more melee oriented characters for jump packs, if there’s trouble with units hiding in buildings!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:31:27


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
So why is the Wulfen Dread considered terribad? Talking about the Axe&Shield version here.

VenDread
+Smoke launchers
+6+++
+WS2+
-6" move
-No reroll for charges
-No ranged weapon

WulfDread
+8" move
+Rerollable charge
+ 18 pts cheaper (with a SB)
-No smoke
-No FNP
-WS3+

Lack of smoke launchers hurts, but 6+++ is often not very consequential. More speed and a rerollable charge for fewer points doesn't really sound like a terrible deal to me. Sure the nerf to 3++ hurts but am I missing something that makes Wulfen Dread significantly worse than a VenDread or are they just both considered bad now?
Agreed. The main problem is getting the dread into combat. 2" more movement and re-rolling charges does that better then 6+++ (1 wound extra on average) and 1 turn of smoke.

A wulfen dread is much more likely to actually make a turn 2 charge.


I also agree. It's also a much more viable dreadnought to stuff into the droppod for dreads. With the re-roll charge, you massively improve your chances to get a charge off.

Plus the 3+ to hit matters less in the first phase he charges anyway, which is where most of the combat will be determined to see how things are gonna go.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:38:57


Post by: Azuza001


Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/28 21:50:05


Post by: Northern85Star


Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.


Jump pack it is!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 05:34:59


Post by: Weazel


Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.


Actually he gets to use two powers, however he only knows one spell from the Tempestas discipline. If you just intend to spam mortal wounds with Smite + Living Lightning I guess a bike RP is still viable. Personally I want to go with Storm Caller + Fury of the Wolf Spirits which is why I need the JP RP.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 10:39:52


Post by: Azuza001


You are correct, my mistake, but my point still stands. Limiting him to smite + 1 power isn't as useful as smite + 2 options.

:p


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 13:19:12


Post by: arhurt


Fellow Jarls I need your knowledge. I have two rhino's filled with bloodclaw killers a lord and a WGBL. It's 1000pts. Now I'm seeing three ways to protect them so they make it into combat.

1) Use a Rune Priest to cast Storm and use the stratagem. Great if I win initiative, a liability if I don't.

2) Put a Wulfen Dread with a Shield to distract the enemy and hopefully draw fire. It at least works even if I lose initiative, but the Wulfen dread will likely not survive whereas the priest would.

3) Add a predator to the back line to draw fire. While not as resilient as the Wulfen, if it survives it can provide covering fire on subsequent turns.

The list is two blood claw squads, Lord and WGBL riding in two rhinos with a long fang and a Grey hunter squad to hold back objectives. I'm trying to round it up with the options above.

Edit: Can't use my Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cav since they use 3rd party bits and mounts and this is an official GW event.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 15:34:44


Post by: Azuza001


There are a few distraction units you could try. 3 landspeeders with heavy flamers will get a lot of attention. A stormfang/stormwolf will as well. However these are expensive points wise just for a distraction.

Out of the 3 options you gave i would say either the rune priest or the predator are where i would go. Between the two... predator. If your rhinos do get blown away the pred is still useable and pretty dangerous on its own. The rune priest isnt targetable so its not a distraction.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 16:40:02


Post by: Ordana


arhurt wrote:
Fellow Jarls I need your knowledge. I have two rhino's filled with bloodclaw killers a lord and a WGBL. It's 1000pts. Now I'm seeing three ways to protect them so they make it into combat.

1) Use a Rune Priest to cast Storm and use the stratagem. Great if I win initiative, a liability if I don't.

2) Put a Wulfen Dread with a Shield to distract the enemy and hopefully draw fire. It at least works even if I lose initiative, but the Wulfen dread will likely not survive whereas the priest would.

3) Add a predator to the back line to draw fire. While not as resilient as the Wulfen, if it survives it can provide covering fire on subsequent turns.

The list is two blood claw squads, Lord and WGBL riding in two rhinos with a long fang and a Grey hunter squad to hold back objectives. I'm trying to round it up with the options above.

Edit: Can't use my Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cav since they use 3rd party bits and mounts and this is an official GW event.
A distraction has to be more dangerous to draw the fire.
I would ignore your Wulfen Dread because it will take 2-3 turns to get to me and kill your Rhino instead.
I would ignore your Predator because the Rhino's doing their thing is more dangerous.

Go for the Rune Priest, try to deploy behind cover and simply accept that your rhino's will sometimes die in your deployment zone.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 16:47:59


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Wulfen Dreads actually have potential to do a Turn 2 Charge.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 21:15:54


Post by: juanonymous


 Weazel wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.


Actually he gets to use two powers, however he only knows one spell from the Tempestas discipline. If you just intend to spam mortal wounds with Smite + Living Lightning I guess a bike RP is still viable. Personally I want to go with Storm Caller + Fury of the Wolf Spirits which is why I need the JP RP.

Wouldn’t he only be allowed to take index psychic powers?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/29 21:21:08


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


juanonymous wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
Your forgetting 1 important thing about the bike rune priest. He only gets to use 1 power a turn due to that being the limit on that data sheet. All the others being updated didnt update that point. For that reason alone my rune priest wears a jump pack.


Actually he gets to use two powers, however he only knows one spell from the Tempestas discipline. If you just intend to spam mortal wounds with Smite + Living Lightning I guess a bike RP is still viable. Personally I want to go with Storm Caller + Fury of the Wolf Spirits which is why I need the JP RP.

Wouldn’t he only be allowed to take index psychic powers?

Well it's from the same Discipline and that Discipline was updated.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 05:04:38


Post by: mightymconeshot


So how is the codex looking for grey hunters/Terminator lists? Do you need Wulfen and Calvary to be effective or can an old 4e/5e ground pounder list make a go of it?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 07:01:27


Post by: Weazel


Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 08:25:10


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?


You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.

The D6 MW will give you a slight higher chance to destroyed the a squad that has taken significant casaulty when being smited earlier in the psychic phase. So you can let the D6 MW jumped to the next unit. It will be fun, but don't expectit can help you kill more than two units with this combo.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 10:10:13


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


I imagine that against another elite army like marines using msu you could use smites and murderous hurricane to whittle down units and then living lightning them afterward. Might be fun to try in a 1k-1.5k game where the chances of someone bring msu is more likely.




For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 10:15:53


Post by: Weazel


Neophyte2012 wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?


You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.


Once per RP you mean? I meant if all three RPs would get D6 with the stratagem that would be nice. Maybe slightly overpowered, but nice nonetheless!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 11:21:50


Post by: Ordana


 Weazel wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?


You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.


Once per RP you mean? I meant if all three RPs would get D6 with the stratagem that would be nice. Maybe slightly overpowered, but nice nonetheless!
Under Matched play rules you can only try to cast a psychic power once per phase regardless of how many psykers you have. So even if the Stratagem would effect all 3 RP's you can only cast the power once per phase


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 11:38:45


Post by: Weazel


 Ordana wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Too bad the Storm Unleashed (can't remember the name) stratagem gives a D6 Living Lightning to only one Rune Priest. If all three would get D6 it might be a fun powercombo. As it is I can only see it as a fun casual build but not a too competitive choice.

With Smites that's a potential 5*D3+D6 Mortal wounds per turn (LL jumping not included) so there is a real possibility to delete a whole unit per turn, but smite spam is kinda easy to bubblewrap against. Maybe Njal and two JP RPs to Deep Strike on a vulnerable flank...?

Thoughts?


You can only cast Living Lightning once per turn anyway, so that does no effect.


Once per RP you mean? I meant if all three RPs would get D6 with the stratagem that would be nice. Maybe slightly overpowered, but nice nonetheless!
Under Matched play rules you can only try to cast a psychic power once per phase regardless of how many psykers you have. So even if the Stratagem would effect all 3 RP's you can only cast the power once per phase


Oh yeah that rule, forgot about it completely. Oh well, I guess it kills that idea then.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 13:08:15


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I think it's still pretty powerful. If it's a larger unit, you smite a couple times first. Then use it + strategem to (hopefully) kill the last few guys. With the D6 mortal wounds, it will then jump to the next unit and do another D6 mortal wounds. Which is no joke.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 13:42:51


Post by: Northern85Star


Inspired by living lightning:

1999 pts, 9 cp (batallion + air wing)

3x runepriest w/ jumppack

5 x BCs w/ wgpl, th/ss

2 x 5 GHs w/ plasma pistol in each.

2 x 5 wulfen, 3 th/ss, gfa in each.

Cyberwolf

5 long fangs with either ML or LC

Rhino w/ SB and hunterkiller.

Stormfang
2 x stormhawks.


1 wulfen outflank, other in stormfang with the BCs. Hoping the BC wgpl will become lone wolf. RPs form a circle with flyers and rhino around, starts smiting and creating defensive bubble. When it looks like living lightning can finish a unit between the smites, go for it (hoping for 2d6 worth of mortal wounds). Ships then unload 24 AC shoots, 24 HB shots, 6 LC shots and the helfrost, much of it hitting on 2s against flyers. Cyberwolf to hold objectives, GHs can do that too, or help out with the fighting. Rhino starts as screen for LFs.

Against very shooty armies, both units of wulfen outflank, to make the stormfang less of a target in case we get turn 2. Maybe the BCs too.

One of the RPs have got Fury of the wolf spirits to act as a melee character, with warlord trait and relic.

This is just a quick attempt. Havent got the models to try it out.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 15:41:17


Post by: gwarsh41


What is everyone's thoughts on long fangs? I feel like our stratagems open up a lot of options for them that were previously ignored.

The ignore all penalties to hit might be the single best stratagem in our codex, as that is the name of the game in 8th. So you could have long fangs move, then shoot a flier, and not care about it at all. It also makes shorter range weapons a little more appealing.

The re-roll all hits or all wounds stratagem makes heavy bolters look a bit more sweet as well. They wound everything outside FW titans on 5s, and have a grip of shots.

Plasma cannons are even looking pretty decent. Sure it blows butt to roll all those D3 results individually. I guess it depends on if hellblasters do it better.

I'm magnetizing mine right now, and missile launchers are what I plan on kitting out for starters. Cheap and 2 profiles is pretty nice.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 16:14:41


Post by: Azuza001


So played a 2000 pt game last night vs my buddy who is going to adepticon next year. I took my wolves with a little guard backup (very little as i dont own many guard yet)

This was my list.

Spoiler:


Wolves Battalion -

Hq :
Rune priest : Warlord, Armor of Russ, saga of the beast slayer, runic staff, jump pack, living lighting, fury of the wolf spirits.
Rune priest : Tempest Wrath, Storm Caller

Troops:
Grey Hunters : 9 men, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol. 1 wgbl with combi plasma.
Grey Hunters : 9 men, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol. 1 wgbl with combi plasma.
Grey Hunters : 9 men, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol. 1 wgbl with combi plasma.

Heavy Support:
Predator Tank : Pred Autocannon, 2 side las cannons
Predator Tank : Pred Autocannon, 2 side las cannons
Predator Tank : Pred Autocannon, 2 side las cannons


Wolves Spearhead -

Hq :
Wolf Guard Battle Leader : two chain swords (for the lols)

Heavy support:
Whirlwind: Vengeance Launchers
Whirlwind: Vengeance Launchers
Whirlwind: Vengeance Launchers


Guard Batallion -

Hq :
Company Commander : chainsword and las pistol
Lord Commisar: Bolt pistol and power sword

Troops :
Infantry Squad : 10 men
Infantry Squad : 10 men
Infantry Squad : 10 men

Fast Attack :
Scout sentinal squad : 3 scout sentinals, each w/ autocannons



His list from best that i can remember

Spoiler:


3x leman russ tank commanders with battlecannons, las cannon, 2x heavy bolter on each
2x Company commander
1x tempestor prime
3 command squads, each w/ las cannon team and 2 snipers
4x troop teams w/ mortars and plasma gun
2x scions 5 men teams
Heavy weapon mortar team
2x basilisks
3x hellhounds
1x manticore



Game was interesting to say the least. We played the objective mission where you started with 6 cards turn 1, and each turn the max number of objective cards you could draw was -1.

Spoiler:


My plan was simple. I castled up in the center of my deployment zone, 3 whirlwinds in the back, rune priest and wgbl infront of them, 3 predators infront of that, with 30 guardsmen and the officer and commisar all spread out around them. I kept at least 1 model of everything within 6 of the rune preist. I outflanked the 3 grey hunter teams and deep struck my warlord. I put the sentinals out front and used their free move to grab an objective. This started me out with 3 objectives held (not that it mattered much, the one they took never was drawn for)

He was afraid of my 30 grey hunters with all that plasma outflanking so he made sure his entire side was "covered" from me getting in. After the game he even mentioned my outflanking forced him to deploy different than he was going to, so the fact they were just there waiting to come in already had an effect on the game before they did anything.

I received first turn and got some decent missions, i dont remember their names but the end result was due to missions "stacking" 1 hellhound dying ended up earning me 3 vp turn one. I didnt move at all turn one, i cast storm caller successfully and can say i understand why they made it cast value of 8. That one spell and the stratagem caused my entire army to go into cover and get -1 to hit other than the scout sentinals. -1 to hit 2+ predarors are tough to deal with! My predators and whirlwinds unloaded onto his lines. Between everything i killed 1 hellhound, brought 1 basilisk to 6 wounds, and brought a tank commander to 5 wounds. Even the scout sentinals did 4 wounds to the tank commander, go little buddies!

So not the most effective start but it wasn't bad. I earned 5 vp turn 1.

He then drew and had some crap missions. Stuff that could be done but not turn 1, like kill a character with one of his characters (actually pretty easy to do if he could get to one of my charecters that i had hidden since he had so many tank commanders) and domination (not happening lol). He unloaded onto my lines with everything he had, and when the smoke cleared he had killed only 13 guardsmen, dropped a predator to 2 wounds, put another pred at 9 wounds left, and killed 2 scout sentinals and dropped the 3rd to 3 wounds. It was amazing, his rolls were normal but that extra cover and -1 to hit was just so helpful! Also he spent way too much attention on the scout sentinals. They refused to die! He mentioned they were such an annoyance, they were weak enough that he didnt want to care about them but with those auto cannons stong enough that he couldnt ignore them.

My turn 2 went amazingly. I drew "take no prisoners" so i had to kill stuff dead. I had weakened his lines just enough so that i was able to drop 20 of the 30 grey hunters in and my warlord runepriest. My normal priest tried to cast the storm again and failed. I would say always put the storm and the dogs power on a defensive runepriest so you have a 2nd power to cast easily if the 1st fails. I didnt do that so i found myself with no way to protect my castle turn 2. I did try to go for a living lightning jump, with my warlord smiting 2 guards from a command squad leaving the las cannon team, but my lightning only did 1 wound so that didnt work like i hoped.

Shooting however went amazing for me this round. I started by firing a whirlwind at his heavy weapons mortar team and blew them away. A whirlwind with vengeance will totally wipe heavy weapons teams off the board each turn i realized with wounding on 2's and giving them only a 6+ save. 1 grey hunter team killed the wounded tank commander with overcharged plasma and fired their bolt guns at a command squad that was outside double tap range but still managed to kill the squad, other put 6 wounds onto a hellhound. Warlord shot his bolt pistol and killed the command squad team his lightning failed to finish. Other 2 whirlwinds killed the wounded basilisk. Weak predator still managed a hit with his auto cannon but did no damage to another command tank. 2nd predator finished off the 2nd hellhound the grey hunters had weakened. Final predator fired at another tank comander putting 3 wounds onto it.

So at the end of all of that i had killed 6 different things and earned 5vp from take no prisioners alone. With my other objectives at the end of my turn 2 i had 13 vp to his 3 and had utterly crippled his army.

His turn 2 went a lot better for him. He unloaded everything at the grey hunters that were now in his lines. He needed to kill my warlord who was the only thing with flight on the board. He cut through the hunters with everything he had then leveled a tank comander at my warlord and blew him away. Upon reflection dropping my warlord so close to the enemy knowing he had to kill him to earn anything was a mistake but i felt it was the proper wolf thing to do and i wanted to get bouncing living lighting to happen. Still after all of that he only had enough firepower left to kill the last sentinal and kill the predator with 2 wounds left.

Turn 3 i got defend 1 (which was the objective my castle was on) and secure 1. I dropped my last 10 hunters into his back field now that it was open, got the storm off again but was out of cp to cast the -1 (mission doubled cp usage at turn 3). My shooting this turn was not as successful, i killed some guardsmen squads and put 4 wounds on a basilisk.

His turn 3 he drew another bad draw, he did get take no prisoners, so he fired on the weakest parts of my list, the guards. Unfortunately even with all he had left he only killed 8 guards from 1 full squad, and killed 1 from a 3 man squad. His basilisk rolled and got 2 shots which tried to kill my weak predator and failed thanks to cover save. His manticore finally did something and hit / wounded my weakest predator but when he rolled for damage it came up leaving the predator with 1 wound. His remaining guardsmen tried to flashlight the last 10 hunters but only got 3. In the end he just couldnt finish anything off either and we called the game at that point since i got defend 1. That put me at 17 pts to his 10, he was making a comeback but the mission and cards were just against him at this point.



So what i learned from this.

1. Just adding the guard in gave me such a boost, their cheap ability to grab ground and generate cp is silly.
2. Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.
3. Outflanking grey hunters works. It seems to be a viable strategy.
4. With the castle with predarors / whirlwinds a wolf lord and wolf guard battle leader loaded cheap is probably a good idea. The reroll 1 to wounds came up quite a bit, but i missed reroll 1's to hit.
5. Predators are freaking awsome. I did forget about their stratagem though, i never take 3 so i forgot about it.
6. Whirlwinds were also awsome. My opponent even mentioned he wasnt used to getting out artilled and had not seen that before, its something to watch for. 6d3 str 7 ap-1 d2 total shots did a lot of work.


Obviously my list wasnt optimized, i need to work on it more, but i was very happy with how it delt with so many enemy tanks.





For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 17:34:05


Post by: kaotkbliss


I've been having a bad itch to start getting some games in so I've been thinking a lot about what strategies I might use.

This got me to thinking on how a pack of wolves hunt and wondered if it would work well on the table as well. What do you think?:

Using skyclaws, swiftclaws, speeders, TWC and other fast units to get in and either weaken, draw off or at least tie-up some of the opponents units on the edges of the main core of their army

while the slower tough units like termies, dreads, etc. made their way up the board under cover of fire from tanks and longfangs to finish off the weakend units.

some scouts or droppods to get into the backfield and annoy the long-range hitters.

Finally bringing the footsloggers and what's left of the fast attack from either side to converge towards the center, flanking their army core from both sides.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 18:53:47


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Does anyone have an explanation for the Helm of Durafast relic? It just seems so random and out of place in our Relics considering our character options.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 18:56:37


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Does anyone have an explanation for the Helm of Durafast relic? It just seems so random and out of place in our Relics considering our character options.

Yeah it's real stinker for sure. It kinda has use on a chaplain dreadnought, but even then if you wanted a relic for it you'd be better suited to the armor of russ or the relic stormbolter.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 18:56:46


Post by: Justyn


Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.

Does anyone have an explanation for the Helm of Durafast relic? It just seems so random and out of place in our Relics considering our character options.


Its an old old Relic. From the before times. Its cool to see it in the book. Sad to see it be so bad.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 20:28:14


Post by: gwarsh41


So Keen Senses basically turns any unit into an anti air unit. Any ideas on Forgeworld goodies that could really make use of never worrying about negatives to hit?

The more I look at the stratagems, the more I feel that there are a lot of really useful strats. There are not as many absolute must have strats for awesome nasty combos like plague marines with the grenade stratagem, but they do seem like they have more that I will use on a day to day, instead of just 2 or 3. Now I have to resist the temptation of a cheap AM battalion for 5 more cp and some back field obsec.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 20:32:13


Post by: Ordana


Justyn wrote:
Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.
I'd bring Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane to get an easier power to get off for the Stratagem.
Storm Caller can indeed not be relied upon.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 20:44:30


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


 Ordana wrote:
Justyn wrote:
Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.
I'd bring Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane to get an easier power to get off for the Stratagem.
Storm Caller can indeed not be relied upon.

Heck you could also just cast smite. Even if there is nobody within 18 to be hit by it you could still cast it for an easy spell.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 21:55:08


Post by: Justyn


Yup. I would only take Storm Caller on Njal. Its just too unreliable for too little benefit on a normal RP. Even then I'd have to think about it. We got decent powers this time around.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 22:40:04


Post by: Azuza001


 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Justyn wrote:
Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.
I'd bring Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane to get an easier power to get off for the Stratagem.
Storm Caller can indeed not be relied upon.

Heck you could also just cast smite. Even if there is nobody within 18 to be hit by it you could still cast it for an easy spell.


You can't cast a power if there are no valid targets in range.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/30 22:44:19


Post by: Karhedron


 gwarsh41 wrote:
So Keen Senses basically turns any unit into an anti air unit. Any ideas on Forgeworld goodies that could really make use of never worrying about negatives to hit?

Not FW specifically but I can think of plenty of other uses for that Strat. Ignoring armies that have a -1 to Hit Trait, moving and firing heavy weapons, firing both barrels of combi-weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:

The re-roll all hits or all wounds stratagem makes heavy bolters look a bit more sweet as well. They wound everything outside FW titans on 5s, and have a grip of shots.

Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 01:35:48


Post by: Justyn


Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!


Yeah. Even the items they put in the Codex that never used to be there seemed like 'hey whats not selling well...'


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 01:43:55


Post by: BrianDavion


Justyn wrote:
Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!


Yeah. Even the items they put in the Codex that never used to be there seemed like 'hey whats not selling well...'


thats not the case at all. most of the items put in the codex where eaither cases of "this is heresy era stuff, why don't we have it?" or filling unfilled niches.

remove the heresy stuff and whats left? land speeder storms? something which has long been a popular scout transport, the stormhawk interceptor which fills a air superiroity role (notice that space wolves didn't get the storm talen even though it's the same kit as the stormhawk?) the anti air tanks.. all stuff which is specific niches space wolves don't have. I see that as more wanting to get those niches filled without wasting design time on new things that'd make little sense anyway.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 01:54:12


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


 Karhedron wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
So Keen Senses basically turns any unit into an anti air unit. Any ideas on Forgeworld goodies that could really make use of never worrying about negatives to hit?

Not FW specifically but I can think of plenty of other uses for that Strat. Ignoring armies that have a -1 to Hit Trait, moving and firing heavy weapons, firing both barrels of combi-weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:

The re-roll all hits or all wounds stratagem makes heavy bolters look a bit more sweet as well. They wound everything outside FW titans on 5s, and have a grip of shots.

Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!

Oooo outflanking /droppod/ jumppack wolfguard with combi plasma and lord support. Fire both weapons and overcharge. Nasty with keen senses. Could really hurt something big.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 02:04:35


Post by: Justyn


remove the heresy stuff and whats left?


Which due to their limited kit will probably continue to be used as regular Terminators.

land speeder storms? something which has long been a popular scout transport,


Is it? I have literally never seen one on the table, ever. Maybe its just the local players. Its also redundant given how our Scouts work.

the stormhawk interceptor which fills a air superiroity role (notice that space wolves didn't get the storm talen even though it's the same kit as the stormhawk?) the anti air tanks.. all stuff which is specific niches space wolves don't have. I see that as more wanting to get those niches filled without wasting design time on new things that'd make little sense anyway.


I'll sorta accept the anti-air units. Although the Stormfang has always done quite well imo. But you are correct its not dedicated anti air. At least the Storm Talon I have seen played. The two anti air tanks.... not so much. Once I think. Again maybe its the local scene.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 02:56:57


Post by: Azuza001


No, its not your local scene, those anti air tanks just seem.... not that good for their job.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 03:22:07


Post by: BrianDavion


Never said the stuff was all useful, in fact outside of land speeder storms, most IMHO fall into the "so niche it's not worth doing sperate kits, and they're not exactly part of faction identity but we might as well spread the love just in case that niche needs filling" but yeah, ALL that stuff is so niche it's proably low selling and GW figured opening them up would fill that niche in the spin off armies and likely not be a big issue.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 06:41:39


Post by: Northern85Star


Too bad the landspeeder storm cant transport wolf scouts with a wgpl.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 12:30:20


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


So our Stormwolf and Stormfang finally got Power of the machine spirit? I may have to by a Stormwolf now.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 12:35:22


Post by: Weazel


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So our Stormwolf and Stormfang finally got Power of the machine spirit? I may have to by a Stormwolf now.


Did they lose it at some point?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 12:52:57


Post by: MagicCookie54


What are peoples thoughts on land raider redeemers, i have a model from an old edition where they were quite handy but im concerned in 8th the short range might lead to it being destroyed before ever getting a chance to use those sweet sweet flamers. My current consideration is while closing the gap use smoke launchers and a rune priest with cloaked by the storm stratagem for a -2 to hit to keep it healthy. Plus potential tempests wrath on a key target for an extra -1, or stormcaller for cover bonus.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 14:25:31


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


 Weazel wrote:
TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So our Stormwolf and Stormfang finally got Power of the machine spirit? I may have to by a Stormwolf now.


Did they lose it at some point?

I thought it didn't have it in the index?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 14:45:55


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


MagicCookie54 wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on land raider redeemers, i have a model from an old edition where they were quite handy but im concerned in 8th the short range might lead to it being destroyed before ever getting a chance to use those sweet sweet flamers. My current consideration is while closing the gap use smoke launchers and a rune priest with cloaked by the storm stratagem for a -2 to hit to keep it healthy. Plus potential tempests wrath on a key target for an extra -1, or stormcaller for cover bonus.

All Land Raiders variants are still bad, and you could use that-1 to hit on something more important like Long Fangs.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 14:56:44


Post by: Azuza001


Until land raiders get either a significant price reduction or an increase in durability they will stay in the friendly game zone. They are just too easy to kill, especially in the new knight meta.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 20:59:33


Post by: Malathrim


I think Land Raiders are still good for Wulfen though. With some Rune Priest powers they can make a good run up the table.

I have had my Stormwolf killed way faster than my Land Raiders in the few games I've played with them.



For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 21:43:47


Post by: Northern85Star


 Malathrim wrote:
I think Land Raiders are still good for Wulfen though. With some Rune Priest powers they can make a good run up the table.

I have had my Stormwolf killed way faster than my Land Raiders in the few games I've played with them.



The problem is probably still not getting first turn against a shooty list. Then it will have to endure a round of shooting without buffs, then a round with them, before getting to where we want it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/08/31 22:54:30


Post by: Azuza001


Land raiders, stormwolves, all of these really awsome and big vehicles are too easy to kill. Knights get a 4++/3++ with strat invulnerable save and it makes them incredibly hard to kill like it should. But a single imperial guard heavy weapons team w/ 3 las cannons can kill a land raider (not likely but a lot easier to do than vs the knight). A single squad of dark reapers will make the landraider cry. Its just not a good spending of points.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 00:29:35


Post by: Niiai


How are characters on bikes / jump packs vs the index? No characters on bikes at all? Will my runepriest bike trigger a massive raw vs rai for what psykick power he can use?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 00:41:36


Post by: Azuza001


Rune priests on bikes can cast 2 powers, but only pick 1 from the new psycic chart. No one can possibly argue you cant use the new powers, the rules say pick 1 power from thr chart and you always use the most to update version of the rules.

But yeah, no characters on bikes.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 05:54:59


Post by: COLD CASH


Had a friendly game against my friends D.A. Ragnar is still trash lol, hes wonderful against fluffly non T6+ models but fails hard against T6 and above. His re roll charges is both good and bad as well. since hes slow its bad, but situationally its ok.

Wulfen are just always better as a reroll charge buffer.

Runepriest with freki/geri was fun and could have been amazing if i didnt double 1 twice killing him the 2nd time.

I think defensive priest is always better as 1st choice runepriest.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 08:03:04


Post by: Araablane


Quick question, is Wolf lord in gravis armour usable or its a little overcosted?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 08:40:27


Post by: Neophyte2012


Araablane wrote:
Quick question, is Wolf lord in gravis armour usable or its a little overcosted?


It is overcosted imo. moves too slow compare to Wolf Lord on Jumppack or Thurnder Wolf Mount, so he cannot get into enemy's face quick to use his 5 attacks. TBH, I rather use a Thurnder Wolf Mount Wolf Lord with stormbolter and Powerfist if want to get one at the cost of around 130+ pts (Gravis WL is about 135pts iirc, the mounted one being 132pts). The mounted one have slightly better shooting, similar combat ability with 3 Str 5 attacks from the wolf and 4 Str8 attack from the lord. Moves at double speed and being way way way more fluffy in Space Wolf army.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 16:04:50


Post by: Karhedron


Azuza001 wrote:
Until land raiders get either a significant price reduction or an increase in durability they will stay in the friendly game zone. They are just too easy to kill, especially in the new knight meta.

Plus if you use them as transports, you make it very easy for the opponent to charge them with something and thus negate several hundred points of shooting in your next turn. At least this is one place where the Repulsor is actually vaguely worthwhile as it can FLY, meaning it can shoot, even after it withdraws from combat.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 18:02:46


Post by: Malathrim


The Repulsor is also good for subtracting charge range from the enemy. I had that happen against me and it was very frustrating!

Can the Repulsor transport regular Astartes or just Primaris? I'm at work at the moment.

I also want some Hellblasters now, for the sneaky On the Hunt outflanking. That could be really good.



For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 19:06:12


Post by: Azuza001


Hellblasters on the hunt is definatly an amazing setup. With double tap at 15 and 6" move onto the board from a table edge only the center of the board is safe. And even then thats easy to get to. Its ALMOST enough to make me want to buy some. But i am sticking to grey hunters, not as much plasma but also a troop choice and cheaper so its a trade off.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 19:30:15


Post by: jcd386


I like the idea of on the hunt, but I'm hesitant to put too many points into it when a lot of armies can line the back board with chaff and put two weak blocking units on either flank. At the very least most good players should be able to keep valuable things out of outflank plasma and assault range. Of course forcing them to do this has it's own advantages, but I'm not sure I want to put 500 points into it when it seems like a pretty hard counter.

Some of my lists have had small blood claws units outflanking, though, and I feel like that has some potential to eat up guard units and be annoying for cheap.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/01 19:39:29


Post by: Karhedron


I painted up my Dark Imperium Hellblasters as Space Wolves and they have done very well. Keep them near Bjorn or a Wolf Lord to reroll 1s and they have plenty of punch. Add a Rune Priest for some defensive buffs and they are reasonable durable. I have not outflanked them yet and the Beta reserve rules put me off a bit but I may try it some time.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 04:13:43


Post by: Justyn


I like the idea of on the hunt, but I'm hesitant to put too many points into it when a lot of armies can line the back board with chaff and put two weak blocking units on either flank. At the very least most good players should be able to keep valuable things out of outflank plasma and assault range. Of course forcing them to do this has it's own advantages, but I'm not sure I want to put 500 points into it when it seems like a pretty hard counter.

Some of my lists have had small blood claws units outflanking, though, and I feel like that has some potential to eat up guard units and be annoying for cheap.


I'd put Hellblasters on the hunt anyway. It stops them being shot until they get a chance to shoot at the very least. You then still have the option to bring them on your table side on turn one, or any side on turn 2. If your opponent manages to castle half the table edges, just being them on your side and laugh at his wasted effort. Deploying from On the Hunt on your own side still gives them a 36" threat range. I think the only other way i'd field them is in a Repulsor. Which might have enough firepower to pay for itself. But probably not.



For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 04:30:00


Post by: jcd386


Justyn wrote:
I like the idea of on the hunt, but I'm hesitant to put too many points into it when a lot of armies can line the back board with chaff and put two weak blocking units on either flank. At the very least most good players should be able to keep valuable things out of outflank plasma and assault range. Of course forcing them to do this has it's own advantages, but I'm not sure I want to put 500 points into it when it seems like a pretty hard counter.

Some of my lists have had small blood claws units outflanking, though, and I feel like that has some potential to eat up guard units and be annoying for cheap.


I'd put Hellblasters on the hunt anyway. It stops them being shot until they get a chance to shoot at the very least. You then still have the option to bring them on your table side on turn one, or any side on turn 2. If your opponent manages to castle half the table edges, just being them on your side and laugh at his wasted effort. Deploying from On the Hunt on your own side still gives them a 36" threat range. I think the only other way i'd field them is in a Repulsor. Which might have enough firepower to pay for itself. But probably not.



Yeah I get that. But having them come in outside of rapid fire range would be pretty disappointing. So would holding a 330 point unit for two turns and not have it wreck something when it shows up. I guess I am just comparing it to the deathwatch deepstrike strategem, and its just it's not nearly as good.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 06:22:19


Post by: Justyn


So anyone got any decent advice vs Tau? I think I've played against them 2 or 3 times since they were introduced. I know they are shooty, have big robots, and overwatch ridiculously.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 09:59:37


Post by: COLD CASH


I suggest a chaplain dread with beastslayer and a gunline of leviathan and 2 mortis contemptors, long fangs and hellblaster! that should be good.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 10:05:53


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


Justyn wrote:
So anyone got any decent advice vs Tau? I think I've played against them 2 or 3 times since they were introduced. I know they are shooty, have big robots, and overwatch ridiculously.

I played a 1k game against tau the other night and ate them alive. It depends on the opponent and what your play style is etc. we played the mission big guns never tire so objectives are worth 3vp at the end of the battle. I outflanked my wulfen and wolf priest to charge a vehicle of his and positioned my self behind cover before the charge so I could not be overwatched. Then I tried to consolidate after every combat into another unit so I could not be overwatched. Also the good thing about the Tau greater good is that if the lend over. Watch to another unit then that unit cannot overwatch again. Some units can be sacrificed in order to eat the overwatch for another unit. I used that tactic to eat a couple battle suit commanders. The -1 to hit spell tempests wrath really hurt the tau shooting. Stirmshields hidden in units can be helpful as well. I kept most of my armyvalive by moving up the board thru as much cover as possible. Most of the weapons I faced were S5 but had no AP modifier so marines getting 2+ cover is awesome.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 11:05:30


Post by: Justyn


I suggest a chaplain dread with beastslayer and a gunline of leviathan and 2 mortis contemptors, long fangs and hellblaster! that should be good.


Well I don't own a chappy, leviathan or contemptors. I am planning on bringing fangs and probably some hellblasters as well.


Post 2018/09/02 10:05:53 Subject: For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition)
Justyn wrote:
So anyone got any decent advice vs Tau? I think I've played against them 2 or 3 times since they were introduced. I know they are shooty, have big robots, and overwatch ridiculously.

I played a 1k game against tau the other night and ate them alive. It depends on the opponent and what your play style is etc. we played the mission big guns never tire so objectives are worth 3vp at the end of the battle. I outflanked my wulfen and wolf priest to charge a vehicle of his and positioned my self behind cover before the charge so I could not be overwatched. Then I tried to consolidate after every combat into another unit so I could not be overwatched. Also the good thing about the Tau greater good is that if the lend over. Watch to another unit then that unit cannot overwatch again. Some units can be sacrificed in order to eat the overwatch for another unit. I used that tactic to eat a couple battle suit commanders. The -1 to hit spell tempests wrath really hurt the tau shooting. Stirmshields hidden in units can be helpful as well. I kept most of my armyvalive by moving up the board thru as much cover as possible. Most of the weapons I faced were S5 but had no AP modifier so marines getting 2+ cover is awesome.


Tau player must have forgotten all the ignore cover they have in their book. Charging around corners is great when you can pull it off. Thanks guys. I'll let you know how it went.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 11:09:15


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


Prepare to have the longs fangs and hellblasters shot off the board if the opponent goes first. Any Tau player worth their salt will focus on them first. Maybe put them on the hunt if you use beta rules. You could always negate any -1 modifiers for moving etc. with the new stratagem keen senses. You could always bring them on in your own deployment zone turn 1 to keep them from being shot at.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 12:40:45


Post by: Sn33R


What's the best units then vs knights?.. lots of really expensive wulfen?..


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 14:08:08


Post by: Azuza001


There are lots of options for dealing with knights. The problem is they all cost as much as or more than the knight does.

Bjorn or Murderfang can wreck a knight in cc. Wulfen with thunder hammers can too. Longfangs with multi meltas or lascannons will also be effective in numbers.

The problem is if you miss with your first attempt to kill the knight it will destroy whatever made the attempt in short order. Also getting into range is a problem, most knights i see use raven household so can advance and shoot their heavy weapons with 0 penalty. That means they can out manuver our dreads and typically avoid cc if they want. On top of that they can just walk out of combat and shoot you.

Add the 3++ save and the only real good answer is another knight or mass numbers so the knight doesnt matter.

Something i was toying with was a rune priest kill team for dealing with knights. Drop 3 of them in with jump packs and go on the psycic offensive. 3 smites should be able to get 3d3 mortals on it plus lightning for another d6 mortals. Its not going to kill the knight but it may slow it down enough to become managable for 360 pts.....


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 14:53:23


Post by: Northern85Star


It’s weird how the iron priests’ tempest hammer is still terribly overcosted. 30 pts for a thunderhammer with the helfrost ability on a 6...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 16:05:09


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Please for the love of God don't recommend Multi-Meltas as a counter to Knights.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 21:24:53


Post by: Karhedron


Long Fangs with Lascannons and the reroll to-Wound stratagem are not exciting but are a points-efficient way of softening Knights up at range, then charge them with anything that has Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields.

I prefer TWC to Wulfen because TWC are not infantry and so can actually lock a knight in combat. This is a big deal as Knights need to be shooting every turn (apart from Gallants) to make their points back. A unit in CC also can't be shot by the other Knights.

Apart from that, Tempest's Wrath is good as applying a -1 to-Hit penalty is great if you land it on a 500+ point unit and Knights typically don't have much psychic defense.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 21:28:52


Post by: jcd386


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Please for the love of God don't recommend Multi-Meltas as a counter to Knights.


But Slayer you only need 48 BS3+ multi-meltas that didn't move to kill a knight with a 3++ in melta range with average rolls. Lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really the only good way to kill knights is in close combat. Which luckily is something SW are okay at.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 21:33:37


Post by: Northern85Star


... Except if they have the flamer, especially as relic.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 21:41:24


Post by: jcd386


Northern85Star wrote:
... Except if they have the flamer, especially as relic.


Sure but that's one knight, and you have to charge rhinos it something at it first. Or maybe shoot at that one.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/02 23:09:59


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


jcd386 wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
... Except if they have the flamer, especially as relic.


Sure but that's one knight, and you have to charge rhinos it something at it first. Or maybe shoot at that one.


Or do all the above.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 00:12:53


Post by: BrianDavion


Or take your own knight.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 01:22:04


Post by: jcd386


BrianDavion wrote:
Or take your own knight.


Yup that's what I'm gonna do. I think a Gallant, Warden, or Crusader could be a good distraction to help TWC, blood claw rhinos, or Wulfen make it through the first turn. I'm gonna try it out, anyway.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 02:57:50


Post by: Azuza001


So I had 2 games today with my Wolves, 1 vs Tyranids and 1 vs Tau.

I have had a long day and don't have my stuff right infront of me so I will try and explain stuff the best I can, but if I get names wrong please don't be upset.

Spoiler:

My List.

HQ's
Wolf Lord w/ Black Death (relic axe), Bolt Pistol, Warlord w/ Wolfen Trait (+1 Attack)
Wolf Lord w/ Bolt Pistol and Chainsword
Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Bolt Pistol and Chainsword
Rune Priest w/ Runic Staff, Storm Caller spell, and Ghost Wolves spell (Freak and Frack as I call them)

Troops
5 Bloodclaws
5 Bloodclaws
8 Bloodclaws
10 Grey Hunters, 1 WGBL w/ combi plasma, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol
10 Grey Hunters, 1 WGBL w/ combi plasma, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol
10 Grey Hunters, 1 WGBL w/ combi plasma, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol

Heavy Support
Predator w/ Pred Auto Cannon and 2 Las Cannons
Predator w/ Pred Auto Cannon and 2 Las Cannons
Predator w/ Pred Auto Cannon
Whirlwind w/ Vengance Missiles
Whirlwind w/ Vengance Missiles
Whirlwind w/ Vengance Missiles

Dedicated Transport
Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter (I left my Rhino at home so I had to use a store substitute and this was what was available so one of the Blood Claw squads lost a member and I got this guy... great option!)

Total CP : 13


Vs the Tyranid player he had a list that was heavy in Warriors, with a Tyranid Hive Tyrant, 9 Warriors, a Trygon, a Trygon Prime deep striking in and a squad of 6 Zonathropes, a Carnifex, 9 Warriors, 20 Genestealers, and a Brood Lord on the board.

Game 1
Spoiler:

I did the "On the Hunt" stratagem for the 3 Grey Hunter Squads and the Warlord. He went 1st and moved everything up but after his warriors all fired at me all he did was 2 wounds on a whirlwind and killed 2 bloodclaws. My response was I dropped my drop pod down onto an objective in my Deployment Zone that I didn't cover properly, and moved 10 of the Grey Hunters in to cover my flank against deep striking. Next I cast the storm and popped the 3 CP for -1 to hit on all the preds and whirlwinds. I then unloaded onto his Carnifex and Zonathropes with my Predators and Whirlwinds, killing the Carnifex with the Whirlwinds and killing 3 of the 6 Zoneathropes with the Predators (flat 3 is amazing vs them, but damn if those 3++ saves are not a pain to get through. Still, dropping them to 3 put them into the "no longer a serious threat" catagory).

He dropped in everything turn 2 and tried to shoot his way to victory. Everything dropped in right next to me and attacked with a lot, his Hive Tyrant killed 3 of my 10 Grey Hunters on that flank with smite and shot another 2 with his stranglehorn cannon. His 9 Warriors and Trygon Prime shot at my Predators but didn't do anything of value (Love that 2+ save and -1 to hit, thats SO powerful when you pile up like that) and his genestealers and other 9 warrior squad shot/assaulted my bloodclaws and drop pod and killed them both, but not without taking a few losses to overwatch (killed me 3 genestealers in overwatch, totally worth it!). My turn I dropped the other 20 grey hunters and my wolflord in on the opposite flank near his 9 warriors that were supporting his genestealers. I moved my 2 remaining blood claw squads up to attack his genestealers. I then cast the storm spell and failed, but cast Freak and Frack and got my ghost wolves so used my remaining CP to get the -1 again. I then unloaded the full fury of the space wolves shooting onto his army. 1 Predator killed the Trygon Prime by itself, the other 2 with their auto cannons blew 6 of the 9 Tyranid Warriors that were by the now dead prime away. Their Laser Cannons put serious wounds onto the Hive Tyrant. The Grey Hunters with their overcharged plasma finished him off. Then the 20 grey hunters and 8 blood claws unloaded onto the genestealers with their bolt weapons with the plasma equipped hunters started unloading onto the warriors. 12 genestealers died as well as 3 warriors. The whirlwinds unloaded onto the regular Trygon that he was using and dropped it to 2 wounds. Then I charged in with my blood claws and dropped the genestealer squad down to 4 guys.

At this point all he had left was 3 warriors up front, 6 warriors on the side, some rippers in the back field, an almost dead squad of genestealers, an almost dead trygon, 3 zonathropes, and his broodlord. He focused on the objectives as best he could, moving most of his force to deal with the flank with the blood claws, and was successful at killing them, but then my next turn I unloaded again onto what was left and all he had left was 3 zonathropes and the broodlord (and the forgotten about rippers). I moved onto the needed objectives, putting the game outside his grasp, and took the win.



Game 2 was much closer. Ended up with an ending score of 17 to 16, with me winning. We were trying a new rules idea to try and find a solution to the whole "going first is such a huge advantage" thing. We decided that you could only score at the end of a battleROUND. This ment player 2 always had a chance to push player 1 off of an objective to stop them from scoring, but player 1 had to work to get his points. Was one HECK of a game!

He had 2 riptides, a hammer head, a longshot, 2 of the heavy battle suits with a ton of missiles, some stealth suits, and a TON of fire warriors and path finders.

Game was a real blood bath. He did a great job of keeping me off the objectives. I won 'pick side' and 'go first' but misjudged the terrain horribly, giving him the side with a lot of cover but me the side with some great line of site blocking terrain. I wanted better line of site for my tanks, but maybe it wasn't the best option.

Spoiler:

So I went first. I moved my 2 5-man blood claw squads up to grab 2 objectives, then got the storm spell and the -1 to hit off. I focused heavily on his heavy stuff. I dropped 1 riptide to 4 wounds, dropped the hammer head to 1 wound, not the worst outcome I could have had. He countered by putting 4 wounds onto one of my predators (the one with just the autocannon) and wiping out the blood claws. So end T1 he had 5 VP and I had 1.

Turn 2 I dropped all 30 grey hunters in on his back corner, he had to move guys up to kill my blood claws giving me the spot I needed to sneak in. Not all were able to be in double tap, but 30 + my wolf lord warlord just fit. I dropped the drop pod onto an objective and moved the blood claws out towards the tau line. I then failed to get the storm off but got Freak and Frack off so got the -1 off again. I then once again unloaded onto the Tau and did some serious damage. I ended killing both riptides, blowing away the hammerhead, and killing some tau off an objective claiming it for myself. He continued to unload shot after shot into my guys, killing 5 blood claws, 6 grey hunters from 1 squad, and killing 2 predators. A bloody left hook from the tau for sure. However I scored 3 VP and he scored 3 putting it 4 to 8.

Turn 3 I moved my grey hunters forward onto his back field side and pulled the blood claws back a bit to make sure they were outside 12 inches, don't want them running off the objective charging things. I got the storm spell off again but didn't have the CP to put my stuff at -1. Then I fired everything I had at him. I destroyed his left flank with the grey hunters, mowing down fire warriors. Their plasma killed one of the 2 broadsides. Then my whirlwinds tried and failed to kill the other one (damn armor saves) and my predator wounded but did not kill the longshot. He fired back at me, but only killed the predator and a few grey hunters. Scored 3VP to his 3VP, so score was 7 to 11.

Turn 4 I moved forward again with the grey hunters. I then ran a whirlwind at a different objective that was being held by some stealth suits. I had to try and get that objective, I was running out of time. My wolf guard battle leader, rune priest, and wolf lord moved forward to the center objective that had pathfinders on it. I had to give up on the castle, I had no more CP to get the -1 and I needed to keep fighting. The wolf priest failed on smite (dude, you needed a 5, you got a 3!) but got Freak and Frack off. The grey hunters killed the remaining boradside and longshot with overcharged plasma and killed more fire warriors. I tried to kill the stealth suits with the whirlwinds but failed again (nothing against them, 1 was hitting on 5's for moving, and the other 2 I rolled 2 shots and 3 shots so eh. I then charged in, sending the grey hunters at fire warriors, my 3 HQ's at the pathfinders, and sending the moving whirlwind at stealth suits. I didn't need to send all 3 HQ's though, the rune priest just recked face killing all 6 pathfinders. The grey hunters did some more damage and the whirlwind actually did 1 wound in close combat! (It hit harder than the damn tau hit back lol!). He got desperate though and backed the remaining fire warriors out of close combat and just fired all he had left at the grey hunters threating his back objective and his warlord. He was not very successful, killing 1 grey hunter squad down to 3 guys. So the score was 10 to 14 at this point.

Turn 5 I surrounded his ethereal with 4 grey hunters with plasma, and the rest moved forward to take his back objective from the 9 remaining firewarriors he had standing around it. The whirlwind backed away from the stealth suits but stayed in range of the objective. I slaughtered his ethereal with the plasma guns (was quite the 'Ok tau, come quietly or we will shoot.... actually, we don't care. Fire!' moment). I then killed the 7 of the 9 firewarriors, killed 2 of the stealth suits with the whirlwinds, finished off another squad of pathfinders with my 3 HQ's, and charged in killing the last 2 fire warriors and taking the objective. He had 1 stealth suit, 6 fire warriors, and some other HQ left at this point. He fought back valiantly, killing 2 grey hunters and taking back his back objective, but at this point it was over. I scored 5 VP to his 1, making the final score
15 to 15. BUT I had Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord to his First Blood so final score - 17 / 16. GO WOLVES!


So I am sure about this list now. It really does work well. The fact that it gets the support fire up close where it needs turn 2, the holding of the castle with the -1 to hit and lots of firepower with a long range, and even the simple drop pod that opponents simply don't want to spend time killing even though its a simple drop in to hold an objective, its been pretty effective. Heck, my 2nd opponent had never seen a whirlwind this edition on the table or 3 predators like that and after that game he was sold on them. He saw mine in action 3 times, saw me take the same list twice before playing against it, and even knowing how I played it he really wasn't sure how effective it would be until he went against it.

I have not gone up against anyone yet who was using a strong deep strike element like mine is so I know it has a weakness that I am not sure about how to fix (as a pure wolf list as it is, I know adding guard in would fix that problem).


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 04:30:18


Post by: Justyn


So I had my game vs Tau today. It was a blast.

My list was
Wolflord on TW with TH and SS, Wulfenstone, Saga of the Warrior Born
Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Jump Pack, TH SS Armor of Russ
Wolf Priest Jump Pack
Rune Priest Jump Pack
Dark Angels Librarian Jump Pack (yeah I spent two CP to use the strat)
Two full 15 man Blood Claw Squads with PF on Pack Leader, and WGPL with Terminator Armor TH +SS
5 man GH squad with chainswords
10 Man Wulfen squad 9x TH SS
Wulfen Dread Blizzard Shield, Great Wolf Claw, 2xStormbolter
Dorito Dread with Autocannon and Automantic Shielding. (area invun save 5++)

Opponent had
1 Stormsurge.
6 Squads of 8 Fire Warriors
5 or 6 squads of 10 Kroot
4 units of Kroothounds
3-4 Kroot Shapers
two battlesuit commanders with Fusion Guns and melee weapons (the signature systems i think)
One unit of 5 pathfinders
Some more individual models and a few drones. One gave an area 5++

So my plan was group everyone within 6" of the Rune Priest, cast -1 to hits with both the Rune Priest and the DA Librarian and Mind Wipe with the Libby. Use the Strategem for another -1 to hit. On top of that the Dorito would give everyone a 5++.

His plan was to have a brick of 48 Fire Warriors that could all overwatch for each other. And a ton of Kroot/hounds to charge me first, with the two commanders to assassinate leaders where they could.

Pre-Game the DA Libby and the Wolf Lord had a duel. Unluckily they both lost a wound. Then the Wulfen Deployed on the Hunt.

We played Maelstrom of War with standard set up. I set up for a push straight down the middle. Hoping resiliency would get me into combat. Despite having half as many drops, I got to go second.

He moved a unit of Kroot and a unit of Hounds up each flank. Two units of Kroot into the center of the table. His shooting killed 5ish Blood Claws from one unit and removed 7 Wounds from the Dorito. He started to score one defend objective in his backfield.

I moved the entire block forward. Failed to cast 2 out of 4 powers. Using Tempests Wrath on the Stormsurge, and Living Lightning on one of the units of Kroot in the middle of the table. The DA Libby failed utterly to do anything. (I was going to name him Token, but now I'm thinking Starscream). But I did use the strategem for -1 to be hit. Then the Blood Claws the Wulfen Dred and the Wolf Guard Battle leader charged. One unit of Blood Claws failed to make the charge. The Kroot were wiped out. I scored two VP, one for wiping a unit in the fight phase and one for casting Psycic powers.

His turn two he moved more units in front of his gunline. Reduced the Blood Claws to one model (who became a Lone Wolf, go team). Reduced the Dorito to 1 wound, took 4 wounds off the Wulfen Dread. He also jumped his commander into the middle of my group and attempted to assassinate both the Rune Priest and the Libby. He missed with the Fusion Guns and then charged them. He also charged the Lone Wolf, Termi and LT. (Important because the LT was close enough to Heroic Intervene against his commander and make it swing last but couldn't due to now being tied up). The remainder of my characters did Heroically intervene. The Battlesuit Commander killed the Rune Priest. The Wolf Lord killed the Commander (activating his deed). Most of the kroot who charged died, but he spent two CP to make them pass Morale, tying up my units. I score one VP for making a heroic Interception. He scores two for defending his objective.

My Turn two, the Wolf Priest and Wolf Lord skirt the combat occurring in the center of the table and move up. My second Blood Claw unit move to the side to be able to assault the Flanking Kroot and hounds on the right. The Dorito moves his full 3" forward. The Wulfen arrive, my opponent has got caught up and moved his kroot hounds forward to throw them in front of the SW tide, leaving a gap that the Wulfen can deploy 9" from the Stormsurge. My Grey Hunters move to an object, scoring it and starting to defend it. The Dorito shoots a few Tau. Then everything charges. Three Wulfen are killed in overwatch. They do a grand total of 9 wounds to the Stormsurge. The Wolf Priest kills a few Tau. The Wolf Lord bounces 6 attacks on shield drones. The fight in the center is finished, with the Wulfen Dread able to advance into two units of Tau Fire Warriors. 4 Units of Fire Warriors and the Stormsurge are engaged in close combat, one unit was finished off by morale. The blood claws on the flank kill the Kroot and surround the shaper. I score one VP for making an assault with a unit coming in from reserve.

Tau turn 3. The Tau gunline falls back and shoots. They finish off the Dorito take one more wound off the Wulfen Dread and kill all but one of the Wulfen. A couple of hounds and his other battlesuit (this one with the unique powerfist thing) charge my units in the center. My Wolf Lord and Wolf Priest Heroically intervene right back into the Tau. The Battlesuit Commander bounced on the Blizzard Shield and got eviscerated for his troubles.

We called it at this point. I was going to be up on VP on my turn (although we were tied at that point. I don't recall what else he scored). But more Importantly my command units were in his lines and he would never be able to get away from them again. Also the store was closing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I am sure about this list now. It really does work well. The fact that it gets the support fire up close where it needs turn 2, the holding of the castle with the -1 to hit and lots of firepower with a long range, and even the simple drop pod that opponents simply don't want to spend time killing even though its a simple drop in to hold an objective, its been pretty effective. Heck, my 2nd opponent had never seen a whirlwind this edition on the table or 3 predators like that and after that game he was sold on them. He saw mine in action 3 times, saw me take the same list twice before playing against it, and even knowing how I played it he really wasn't sure how effective it would be until he went against it.


Looks like you had two great games there. I'm not sold on the Whirlwinds. But Predators are very solid. Your list has a ton of wounds many of them high toughness. Did you have to use CP to get Storm Caller off? It just seems like its not going to work very often being casting value 8 now.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 06:13:04


Post by: Weazel


So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 06:41:22


Post by: Northern85Star


 Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?


TWC needs support, but there is lots to get. They can get up to +3 A each now, with wulfen (stone), saga of the wolfkin and Arjac


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 07:20:29


Post by: Weazel


Northern85Star wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?


TWC needs support, but there is lots to get. They can get up to +3 A each now, with wulfen (stone), saga of the wolfkin and Arjac


Chainswords just don't cut it and they get expensive fast once you start slapping on powerweapons.. and Arjac is slow AF, don't really see him keeping up. But might consider them with those +2A and trying to remember the stratagem to let them fight twice if I really need something gone...


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 11:00:40


Post by: Northern85Star


Arjac is a beast, cant wait to try him with 6” heroic intervention. But yes, he has to go right into the fray - i deepstrike him in near wulfen, hoping to get that 9.. if not, he just shoots and boosts the TWC, aswell as giving both wulfen and TWC re-roll 1s to wound.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 11:13:57


Post by: Weazel


Taking TWC + Arjac + Wulfen + Wolf Lord is a rather hefty investment comparing to taking just the TWC. I find that I don't usually want to invest more than 500pts into pure CC elements. Shooting feels just so much more effective (and more boring, I know).

Last night I put 900 points into CC and they didn't really accomplish anything. Pretty sure the Wraiths and Lychguard didn't cost nearly as much and they kicked my ass.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 12:08:47


Post by: Northern85Star


CC is where all our strenght comes from! At range we are still index, apart from long fang stratagems.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 12:30:40


Post by: Ragnar69


A Wolf Lord with TH, Saga of the Wolfkin and Wulfen Stone has 6 attacks, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1s, so basically 6 hits.

Let's assume he charged a knight and uses the strategem Seeking A Saga. So he wounds on 4 re-rolling everything, so 4.5 wounds = 13.5 damage. No matter if the knight kills him or not, we have a strategem to fight again for the same damage. So if we roll average and the oppenent slightly below avarge for his 6+ save, the Wolf Lord can kill a knight in a single round for around 130 points and 3 or 4 CPs. Try to do that with shooting.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 13:07:29


Post by: KillswitchUK


Ding ding ding we have a winner


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 13:16:25


Post by: Weazel


That's cute, but there's still the matter of reaching the knight and actually charging him.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 14:45:28


Post by: Overdose


Hi everyone.
Recently decided my new purchases of Primaris marines will be Space Wolves.

I do want to make the most use of the models which I have been able to acquire (Dark Imperium).

How do Intercessors do as troop choices?

And for Reivers- if you HAD to use them, would you give them the combat knife or bolt carbines.

And any other advice for doing a Primaris-focused Space Wolves army would be great!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 17:05:13


Post by: jcd386


I think primaris gain very little from being space wolves. I could see reivers possibly being a decent drop in assault unit if you have Wulfen around, but that's about it.

Deathwatch and dark angels do primaris much better.

If you plan to do it anyway, I'd take min squads of intercessors and outflank hellblasters or aggressors.

But the real power of SW comes from free extra attacks, so you really want hammers or cheap bodies, and primaris don't do either of those well.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 17:24:42


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

Honestly, don't let a single bad experience with Lychguard ruin the unit for you. Sure you forgot the Strategem, but if you HAD remembered it, the unit wouldn't have been an issue at all. Also, getting 7 back is VERY out of the norm. On average they would ordinarily get 3 back out of the 9.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 17:53:21


Post by: Weazel


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

Honestly, don't let a single bad experience with Lychguard ruin the unit for you. Sure you forgot the Strategem, but if you HAD remembered it, the unit wouldn't have been an issue at all. Also, getting 7 back is VERY out of the norm. On average they would ordinarily get 3 back out of the 9.


Well yeah it was an epic roll, but there was a cryptek. He didn't even use the Orb to get them back. Needless to say I was a bit appalled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of TWC, if you were to run them, how many per unit and what gear?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 18:16:08


Post by: Azuza001


I run my twc as max size squads, leader with wolf claws, rest with chain swords and storm shields. I use them as chaff clearing and fighting things that dont like close combat so my wulfen can make their assault against enemy vehicles or tougher targets.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 18:48:23


Post by: jcd386


I've been thinking squads of 3 with 1 hammer. Shields on at least 2 of them, probably all three.

I think more hammers are doable but I don't love spending 16 on a hammer for a model with less than 3 attacks base. I think if you want lots of hammers Wulfen do it better, but one is good so they can still threaten big stuff.

Two of these squads gives more hammer attacks and forces people to split the fire of big stuff like Castellans, or debuffs like doom, so I like it more than 1 big squad.

Deepstrike Arjac in the turn they charge something, and have the Wulfen Stone nearby, and they aren't too bad of a unit with 5 hammer attacks, 9 wolf attacks, and 10 chainsword attacks.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 19:05:34


Post by: CatGotYourLas


For my TWC related units: All hammers and shields. I want them to hit hard to die trying. Local meta is rather friendly and not too super competitive so I think they'll be seeing success. Only people I've seen go all out are the Eldar players :B


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 19:34:41


Post by: Northern85Star


TWC: leader with hammer and shield. We want a unit that poses some threat to big targets too, and it is worth it on a model with 3 attacks. Without him, they will get tied up by big, tough models. Two with chainsword and shield - these are the first to fall, and still good at clearing chaff. Rest with dual claws, perfect for smaller targets, but they will die fast without a shieldbrother.

So every model has 3 attacks.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 19:40:44


Post by: jcd386


Northern85Star wrote:
TWC: leader with hammer and shield. We want a unit that poses some threat to big targets too, and it is worth it on a model with 3 attacks. Without him, they will get tied up by big, tough models. Two with chainsword and shield - these are the first to fall, and still good at clearing chaff. Rest with dual claws, perfect for smaller targets, but they will die fast without a shieldbrother.

So every model has 3 attacks.


Yeah that makes sense, but I'm still not really sold on squads larger than 3, and by the time you get to 6 you seem better off with 2x3. There aren't really any buffs or strategems worth putting on a big squad anyway, and doom, death hex etc are all more effective on single large units.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 19:43:17


Post by: Azuza001


I feel the wolves are anti infantry, so loading the guys out as anti tank is making a unit where half the attacks are not going agsinst the intended target. Thats why I go chainswords and shields, keep them cheap and let then chow into something, even terminators and genestealers have issues with that many attacks at a 3++ 3w model setup.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 19:58:49


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Weazel wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
So I had a game against Necrons yesterday. It was a complete disaster. I was arrogant and thought TWC and JP characters could easily challenge a few mindless automatons but boy was I wrong. I got his scytheguard down to last man in melee, and he got seven of them back with RP. Should have used the stratagem to fight another time with TWC but I forgot about it.

His 6 Wraiths had eaten my Wolf Lord and a group of TWC, but was down to two wraiths. He used RP and got 4 of them back and they were back to full strength. That's when I conceded on turn 3. No point playing the final rounds because the outcome was obvious. He had a solid footing on 4 objectives and the Wraiths were just going to eat my Long Fangs and whatever little I had left.

Idk, next time I'm going to try a Dreadstar with Björn and Wulfen Dreads and have a better balanced list.

So what did I learn. TWC are going back to storage, not worth it really. Wulfen are super awesome on paper but they need a taxi which makes them just way too expensive. 9" charge from Hunt is just too damn unreliable.

I also feel the shroud stratagem is way too expensive. 3CP for a -1 hit bubble when some armies get army wide -1 hit for free. Just baffles my mind really. At 2cp it might be worth it but 3 is too much.

So what has worked for you and what has not?

Honestly, don't let a single bad experience with Lychguard ruin the unit for you. Sure you forgot the Strategem, but if you HAD remembered it, the unit wouldn't have been an issue at all. Also, getting 7 back is VERY out of the norm. On average they would ordinarily get 3 back out of the 9.


Well yeah it was an epic roll, but there was a cryptek. He didn't even use the Orb to get them back. Needless to say I was a bit appalled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of TWC, if you were to run them, how many per unit and what gear?

Even with a Cryptek, that's only 4.5 back. He rolled much above average still. I wouldn't fret and just remember you have that Strategem next time.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 20:29:39


Post by: Northern85Star


Azuza001 wrote:
I feel the wolves are anti infantry, so loading the guys out as anti tank is making a unit where half the attacks are not going agsinst the intended target. Thats why I go chainswords and shields, keep them cheap and let then chow into something, even terminators and genestealers have issues with that many attacks at a 3++ 3w model setup.


They are best at infantry, but it is not a good idea to make them a one trick pony. Some lists dont have any infantry, and then they are just good but expensive roadbumps - that is my experience. I started out with your setup, but changed once i had a game where they were useless due to no high S, multi dmg weapons.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 21:57:42


Post by: Karhedron


Ragnar69 wrote:
A Wolf Lord with TH, Saga of the Wolfkin and Wulfen Stone has 6 attacks, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1s, so basically 6 hits.

Let's assume he charged a knight and uses the strategem Seeking A Saga. So he wounds on 4 re-rolling everything, so 4.5 wounds = 13.5 damage. No matter if the knight kills him or not, we have a strategem to fight again for the same damage. So if we roll average and the oppenent slightly below avarge for his 6+ save, the Wolf Lord can kill a knight in a single round for around 130 points and 3 or 4 CPs. Try to do that with shooting.

 Weazel wrote:
That's cute, but there's still the matter of reaching the knight and actually charging him.

A Jump Pack solves the problem of reaching the Knight easily enough. Charging is more risky, I agree since we do not have anything like Blood Angels to negate overwatch. Best case, have some buddies (preferably with SSs) charge alongside and eat that overwatch for him. Worst case,take it on the chin and trust your Storm Shield to take the worst of it.

If you need something to stop an enemy Gallant rampaging through your lines, then overwatch is not really a problem and this guy really is your man. Like Captain Smash, he is a solid HQ choice who can be pumped up with CPs if necessary to take down far bigger threats than his points would indicate. If you opponent has not brought sufficiently big game to be worth the CP expenditure, just run him as a normal smashy Wolf Lord.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/03 23:33:34


Post by: arhurt


Played 3 games this weekend: https://wargamingrebel.blogspot.com/2018/09/batrep-warhammer-40k-space-wolves-new.html

Game 1 vs Custodes + Knight Armiger
Game 2 vs Nemesis Dreadknights + IG
Game 3 vs Ultra infantry line

Details on the link above, but in short, love my Bloodclaws, they pack quite a punch. 6'' heroic intervention is also great when the enemy is trying to keep away from you!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 00:58:09


Post by: Azuza001


Yeah, I have found my blood claws with a power fist to be quite useful. I am enjoying our troop choices now. Amazing what +1 to hit can do when charging or charged.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 01:03:18


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Do you guys think Lukas is okay or do you find him kinda not needed? I want to like his profile and his buff but I'm not feeling it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 01:42:28


Post by: ZergSmasher


I'm wondering if a worthwhile strategy might be to use the outflank strat to bring in a unit of Aggressors, which can hopefully shoot and kill some chaff unit, and then charge a tank or other vehicle, with the +1 to hit after charging negating the -1 from the fists. Probably not as good as Wulfen, but could be alright maybe?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 02:05:17


Post by: Azuza001


Lukas in the index was almost a needed unit if you were taking lots of blood claws (which I did quite often). With the change to his stats he isn't needed anymore. If your going to run a lot of blood claws he can still be useful, but not a requirement.

As for the aggressors, using the on-the-hunt stratagem to let them come off of one of the sides of the map is very useful. I find that this is one of the things that Space Wolves can do for primaris that other factions can't, get hard to position units into position to be a right pain in the bum.

Think about it, 3 Aggressors don't take up that much room. All you need to do is get a small opening in the back side of an opponents lines and they can come in forcing your opponent to turn some of their forces back around and deal with them. If they don't they are going to seriously regret things.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 04:00:36


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do you guys think Lukas is okay or do you find him kinda not needed? I want to like his profile and his buff but I'm not feeling it.


He’s expensive and he needs to be built around.
Too many things ignore Leadership, the pelt of the Doppelgängeral is very ‘meh’ and his last laugh gets worse every new edition.
If he moved quickly I’d take him but as he stands he’s a foot slogging meh.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 04:39:40


Post by: Northern85Star


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do you guys think Lukas is okay or do you find him kinda not needed? I want to like his profile and his buff but I'm not feeling it.


He is too expensive for what he does now. Better off taking a WGBL. I have Lukas, unassembled, but sadly he is going to collect dust.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 08:03:31


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 09:13:14


Post by: Ordana


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?
Because GW felt a bunch of Dreadnoughts with 3++ was to good.
At at the more casual level they might well b right.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 10:31:31


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?


At least it is cheapee now, dropped back to its index price from the CA price. Though it sucks to only have a 4++.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 13:04:37


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


I've see a lot of talk of TWC and thought I'd add my two cents. I typically use mine for antiinfantryvor heavy infantry clearing. Giving the leader hammer and shield is good if you want to kill something larger but dual claws would be good for more attacks. The regular guys could be chainsword and shield/ claw and shield/ or dual claws. I'd probably take units of 3 buffed by Canis Wolfborn and a Lord on thunderwolf with wulfen stone and saga of wolfkin or hunter. Claws will allow reroll of all attacks, strategem gives the plus 1 to wound, Canis gives extra attack to wolf lord reroll 1s to hit,+1 hit hunters unleashed, +2 attacks for wulfen stone and wolfkin. Tons of S5 attacks -2/-1 raining on your opponent. With strat still wounds knight on 4+ in a pinch plus reroll all claws. I'm going to buy more TWC.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 14:53:29


Post by: Weazel


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I've see a lot of talk of TWC and thought I'd add my two cents. I typically use mine for antiinfantryvor heavy infantry clearing. Giving the leader hammer and shield is good if you want to kill something larger but dual claws would be good for more attacks. The regular guys could be chainsword and shield/ claw and shield/ or dual claws. I'd probably take units of 3 buffed by Canis Wolfborn and a Lord on thunderwolf with wulfen stone and saga of wolfkin or hunter. Claws will allow reroll of all attacks, strategem gives the plus 1 to wound, Canis gives extra attack to wolf lord reroll 1s to hit,+1 hit hunters unleashed, +2 attacks for wulfen stone and wolfkin. Tons of S5 attacks -2/-1 raining on your opponent. With strat still wounds knight on 4+ in a pinch plus reroll all claws. I'm going to buy more TWC.


I can't run TWC without full Stormshields. They are notorious in our group from previous editions and are going to draw a lot of antitank fire. Without shields they are just going to vaporize instantly.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 15:00:47


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Weazel wrote:
TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I've see a lot of talk of TWC and thought I'd add my two cents. I typically use mine for antiinfantryvor heavy infantry clearing. Giving the leader hammer and shield is good if you want to kill something larger but dual claws would be good for more attacks. The regular guys could be chainsword and shield/ claw and shield/ or dual claws. I'd probably take units of 3 buffed by Canis Wolfborn and a Lord on thunderwolf with wulfen stone and saga of wolfkin or hunter. Claws will allow reroll of all attacks, strategem gives the plus 1 to wound, Canis gives extra attack to wolf lord reroll 1s to hit,+1 hit hunters unleashed, +2 attacks for wulfen stone and wolfkin. Tons of S5 attacks -2/-1 raining on your opponent. With strat still wounds knight on 4+ in a pinch plus reroll all claws. I'm going to buy more TWC.


I can't run TWC without full Stormshields. They are notorious in our group from previous editions and are going to draw a lot of antitank fire. Without shields they are just going to vaporize instantly.


Of course, they need SS for sure. But how many? I think if I run more than 3, I can afford to let the pack leader not taking shield, instead maybe give him a plasma pistol on his left hand while his right hand wielding the Thurnder Hammer or Powerfist. Or a chainsword in his left hand to add the number of attacks.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 16:36:34


Post by: gwarsh41


Northern85Star wrote:
It’s weird how the iron priests’ tempest hammer is still terribly overcosted. 30 pts for a thunderhammer with the helfrost ability on a 6...


I really hope that the FAQ changes helfrost to be like the relic, on a +4. In the GW bat rep they used a +4 on all helfrost weapons and it really got my hopes up. 1 extra mortal wound is not all that hot, if it was 1 extra wound chance for each failed save, that would be something to write home about.

On the subject of TWC. I doubt it would be competitive, but it is pretty hilarious how many attacks they can get. TWC get 2 base, 2 chainswords for 2 more, wulfenstone and warlord for 2 more, then canis can buff the teeth to 4. 10 attacks each (in a perfect world with a ton of pt investment into buffs, so it will likely never happen, but it's still fun to think about)

Are index lone wolves still something we can bring? Having a unit "turned into" a stratagem is something that hasn't ever happened. I assume we still can, but am unsure if they are worth it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 18:04:42


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


 Weazel wrote:
TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I've see a lot of talk of TWC and thought I'd add my two cents. I typically use mine for antiinfantryvor heavy infantry clearing. Giving the leader hammer and shield is good if you want to kill something larger but dual claws would be good for more attacks. The regular guys could be chainsword and shield/ claw and shield/ or dual claws. I'd probably take units of 3 buffed by Canis Wolfborn and a Lord on thunderwolf with wulfen stone and saga of wolfkin or hunter. Claws will allow reroll of all attacks, strategem gives the plus 1 to wound, Canis gives extra attack to wolf lord reroll 1s to hit,+1 hit hunters unleashed, +2 attacks for wulfen stone and wolfkin. Tons of S5 attacks -2/-1 raining on your opponent. With strat still wounds knight on 4+ in a pinch plus reroll all claws. I'm going to buy more TWC.


I can't run TWC without full Stormshields. They are notorious in our group from previous editions and are going to draw a lot of antitank fire. Without shields they are just going to vaporize instantly.


This is when the -1 to hit spells, cover, LOS blocking terrain, target saturation etc come into play.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 18:07:57


Post by: Sn33R


 Ordana wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?
Because GW felt a bunch of Dreadnoughts with 3++ was to good.
At at the more casual level they might well b right.


Yes because we don't see any t7 knights with a ton of wounds walking round.
To be honest I've played a ton of games with the new wolves and they are gak. They do nothing vanilla can't but vanilla do it cheaper and better
. The +1 to hit is a distraction, it's distracting you away from the point the army at whole is crap. a good player will never let you get in combat to use the +1.
Good units are super expensive wulfen and astartes fw models.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 20:09:55


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


Sn33R wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?
Because GW felt a bunch of Dreadnoughts with 3++ was to good.
At at the more casual level they might well b right.


Yes because we don't see any t7 knights with a ton of wounds walking round.
To be honest I've played a ton of games with the new wolves and they are gak. They do nothing vanilla can't but vanilla do it cheaper and better
. The +1 to hit is a distraction, it's distracting you away from the point the army at whole is crap. a good player will never let you get in combat to use the +1.
Good units are super expensive wulfen and astartes fw models.


I am not ready to write us off as "gak" just yet. We are not an obviously broken army but I think now that we have some decent strategems and rules we can play with everyone else on some more even footing.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 23:31:07


Post by: Northern85Star


Had good succes today using a wolf priest as warlord with the saga of majesty. In this way he has a 9” re-roll all CC to hit and a 9” LD 9 bubble. Gave him frostfury, because i didnt want him in melee.

Wulfen er absolute beasts. A 5 man pack took down a 3++ leviathan dread and GM Voldus in one turn - thanks to the stratagem that lets them fight twice. Opponent conceeded after that.

Long fangs are fragile, and gets dealt with quickly.

TWC got shot to pieces, leaving only the leader left (out of 5), he didnt manage to earn his pts cost back, but he did good work clearing units from objectives. I think th/ss on leader and chainsword/ss on everyone else is the way to go. They will still tear infantry to pieces, now that they hit better.

The thing is it all came down to wulfen making their 9” charge when they entered the board.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/04 23:51:00


Post by: Azuza001


ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Sn33R wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why did they ruin Blizzard Shields?
Because GW felt a bunch of Dreadnoughts with 3++ was to good.
At at the more casual level they might well b right.


Yes because we don't see any t7 knights with a ton of wounds walking round.
To be honest I've played a ton of games with the new wolves and they are gak. They do nothing vanilla can't but vanilla do it cheaper and better
. The +1 to hit is a distraction, it's distracting you away from the point the army at whole is crap. a good player will never let you get in combat to use the +1.
Good units are super expensive wulfen and astartes fw models.


I am not ready to write us off as "gak" just yet. We are not an obviously broken army but I think now that we have some decent strategems and rules we can play with everyone else on some more even footing.


I am with ArmchairArbiter, I don't think we are gak. We are definatly not stronger than a standard marine army though like what used to happen when a wolf codex came out.

Still, comparing us to a standard marine codex army (or even a dark angels / blood angels army) we have some advantages.

1. We can outflank with the stratagem. Its incredibly useful and gives us the ability to get certain units that normally can't get close to the enemy in a cheap fashion.
2. All of our basic marine troops are flat better than any other forces basic marine troops thanks to the free chainsword. This is more of a "basic marines should get that ability" than anything else, but hey, at least wolf players can go "Our armys troops know what a freaking holster is for that bolt pistol".
3. Our longfangs are better than devistators except for Dark Angels. We get a flat reroll 1's vs 1 target, most don't get that, and Dark Angels if they don't move get that vs anything they shoot at. The fact we can take 5 heavy weapons vs 4 that are normally able to be taken is a trap though, your putting more points into a unit that can not easily take ablative wounds. Also the fact we don't get a regular apothecary to bring dead ones back to life it makes this one a double edged sword.
4. We get some awsome unique units. Wulfen are powerful, but expensive. Ven Dreads with Axe and Shield setup are still pretty nasty. We have 2 Charecter dreadnaughts that are quite scary. With the drop in points for the Stormfang that ship is quite awsome at its cheapest loadout.
5. Our scouts fill a completly different roll than normal. They don't start further up on the field, they 'outflank' for free. Load them with some plasma and they can do 6 plasma shots for 108 pts.

I think the issue comes when you look at our unique units and go 'this is supposed to be a close combat army.' Then you look at the army wide bonus and go 'This is a close combat bonus.' So, 1+1= This is a close combat army. We are not. We are a close fire army. We want to get close and unload on the enemy, and we are strong enough that most armies will think twice before charging us. We have some nasty CC units that can back up the close fire guys and really become a scary force. The problem is 8th isn't friendly to this kind of force.

With the meta shifting to Knights like it has (which having finally looked through the knights codex I don't think the issue is Knights or how they are written, its the fact that they don't have to be a warlord to get a warlord trait which also gives them access to a relic. That + the warlord trait that gives them an effective 4++ save, with a 3++ save thanks to a stratagem, that is what makes them so nasty. Remove that warlord trait and I think knights are fine. Or make it so if you have that warlord trait you can't use that stratagem. But I am ranting about something else here...) its hard for us to work the way intended. Add gunlines like guard or tau which are HARD as hell to deal with sometimes thanks to their cost, and we don't come out very good.

Thats when it comes down to looking at the codex and not saying "What can I take to play the way I want" but really looking at it and going "How does this codex need to be played to make it work".

I have found the answer is to look out for trap units. These are units that cost a lot and have questionable returns, but this also comes in with taking expensive close combat options onto units that don't really want to be in close combat. Take grey hunters. Really, they are great fire support that can hold their own in CC. They don't WANT to be in CC though, they are more effective with their bolters. So don't take power weapons on the leaders, leave them bare. Blood Claws are the opposite, they WANT to be in CC. Don't put plasma pistols on them because they can take them, thats wasted points. Take a powerfist or a power sword instead.

People want to take lots of cool stuff with cool options, and I understand that. Before the codex dropped my typical list was 15 bloodclaws and lucas in the stormwolf, 2 venerable dreads with axe and shield, Bjorn, Murderfang, Wulfen out flanking, Herald Deathwolf out flanking, and 7 wolf scouts out flanking. Now? I have tried that list a few times since the change and its not as good. I just can't spend the points on cc units outflanking. Stormwolf still gets shot out of the sky leaving a lot of infantry sitting in my back field with no way to move fast enough to be useful. And enemy knights still outrun Bjorn and his crew, but now have worse luck and end up getting killed easier than before.

I think Dark Angels have the strongest marine codex out this edition thanks to 1 stratagem (Weapons of the Dark Ages) and the ease of getting plasma everywhere. Its like at some point Oprah showed up in the 40k universe at the steps of the emperors golden thrown started yelling "YOU GET A PLASMA WEAPON, YOU GET A PLASMA WEAPON, AND YES YOU GET A PLASMA WEAPOIN!". But I think we are more tactical than Dark Angels. They can't outflank. They can't get -1 to hit (though the fact that OUR chaptermaster gives us ignore moral and theirs give 4++ to everything within 6" is more bull...) on tanks. They can't ignore all penalties to hit something no matter how well it is at using tricks (looking at you eldar). But this makes us CP hungry. I can blow through 13 CP within 2 turns easy now. Thats sad.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 00:29:57


Post by: ArmchairArbiter


I feel like that is a pretty good analysis Azuza001. I believe it's also why I saw a SW player on (I think) another forum using a weird fire support list backed up with units that can engage enemies that come close.

He was using preds and whirlwinds, guarded by grey hunters and had outflanking MSU bloodclaws. RP and some other things. So far he's had good success with it.

I think the other issue is we are still trying to use units that have changed like we have in the past. TWC are a perfect example of this. In 7th they were super smashy and could tear high T units apart. I believe we need to rethink them as what they're named, cavalry, used for running down soft targets.

I thought about it on the train ride home and putting TH/SS on the TWC makes them too expensive and Wulfen just do it better anymore. Put a free bolter and a frost sword on them however and they become much more affordable and rather effective vs MEQ, let alone GEQ units.

A 4 man TWC unit with bolters + frost swords is only 188 points. They move 10", toughness 5 and 3 wounds a pop? They will hit on 2s on the charge, have a ton of additional attack buffs for them and some decent strategems to help them out. Not too much more than a 10 man blood claw squad with a WGPL but with a much more effective punch. They could be a hardy and very effective flanking unit or great at guarding the back line and counter-charging units that drop in.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 01:31:34


Post by: Azuza001


That other list sounds like my list I am currently running, 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Preds, and 30 grey hunters with some blood claws running around intercepting soft targets.

I think TWC work absolutely best when you add a wolf priest with a jump pack in and put some storm shields on them. Storm Shields give them that valuable 3++ save to protect them from heavy incoming enemy fire, and if they take wounds thanks to simply mass fire the wolf priest can heal them up. But I haven't considered putting bolters on them. Thats not a bad idea, but I still prefer my Wolf Guard on Bikes for that roll. Yes, its an index option, but 5 wolf guard on bikes with storm shields and storm bolters are 2 wounds, 12" move, 3++ save, and put out 8 shots each at 12". Thats a ton of firepower for a 5 man squad thats not easy to kill.

Besides, I already have my Wolf Guard on bikes modeled up that way.... I will be sad the day they are no longer legal.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 04:05:40


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Azuza001 wrote:
That other list sounds like my list I am currently running, 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Preds, and 30 grey hunters with some blood claws running around intercepting soft targets.

I think TWC work absolutely best when you add a wolf priest with a jump pack in and put some storm shields on them. Storm Shields give them that valuable 3++ save to protect them from heavy incoming enemy fire, and if they take wounds thanks to simply mass fire the wolf priest can heal them up. But I haven't considered putting bolters on them. Thats not a bad idea, but I still prefer my Wolf Guard on Bikes for that roll. Yes, its an index option, but 5 wolf guard on bikes with storm shields and storm bolters are 2 wounds, 12" move, 3++ save, and put out 8 shots each at 12". Thats a ton of firepower for a 5 man squad thats not easy to kill.

Besides, I already have my Wolf Guard on bikes modeled up that way.... I will be sad the day they are no longer legal.


Aren’t they already illegal? I seem to recall the big FAQ ‘ahem’ neutered that load out.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 04:16:12


Post by: ZergSmasher


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
That other list sounds like my list I am currently running, 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Preds, and 30 grey hunters with some blood claws running around intercepting soft targets.

I think TWC work absolutely best when you add a wolf priest with a jump pack in and put some storm shields on them. Storm Shields give them that valuable 3++ save to protect them from heavy incoming enemy fire, and if they take wounds thanks to simply mass fire the wolf priest can heal them up. But I haven't considered putting bolters on them. Thats not a bad idea, but I still prefer my Wolf Guard on Bikes for that roll. Yes, its an index option, but 5 wolf guard on bikes with storm shields and storm bolters are 2 wounds, 12" move, 3++ save, and put out 8 shots each at 12". Thats a ton of firepower for a 5 man squad thats not easy to kill.

Besides, I already have my Wolf Guard on bikes modeled up that way.... I will be sad the day they are no longer legal.


Aren’t they already illegal? I seem to recall the big FAQ ‘ahem’ neutered that load out.

You can still run Bike Wolf Guard from the Index, just like you can run various SM characters on bikes. GW has said that the Index options are still valid for things that aren't in the Codex. Same with options on certain models, like Autocannons on Dreadnoughts. Eventually they might phase all that stuff out, but hopefully not for a while as it would completely invalidate a lot of people's cool conversions (some of which people spent a lot of time on).


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 05:20:43


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 ZergSmasher wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
That other list sounds like my list I am currently running, 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Preds, and 30 grey hunters with some blood claws running around intercepting soft targets.

I think TWC work absolutely best when you add a wolf priest with a jump pack in and put some storm shields on them. Storm Shields give them that valuable 3++ save to protect them from heavy incoming enemy fire, and if they take wounds thanks to simply mass fire the wolf priest can heal them up. But I haven't considered putting bolters on them. Thats not a bad idea, but I still prefer my Wolf Guard on Bikes for that roll. Yes, its an index option, but 5 wolf guard on bikes with storm shields and storm bolters are 2 wounds, 12" move, 3++ save, and put out 8 shots each at 12". Thats a ton of firepower for a 5 man squad thats not easy to kill.

Besides, I already have my Wolf Guard on bikes modeled up that way.... I will be sad the day they are no longer legal.


Aren’t they already illegal? I seem to recall the big FAQ ‘ahem’ neutered that load out.

You can still run Bike Wolf Guard from the Index, just like you can run various SM characters on bikes. GW has said that the Index options are still valid for things that aren't in the Codex. Same with options on certain models, like Autocannons on Dreadnoughts. Eventually they might phase all that stuff out, but hopefully not for a while as it would completely invalidate a lot of people's cool conversions (some of which people spent a lot of time on).


I meant StormBolter/StormShield on WG Bikers.
I thought they got nerfed back to one or the other but not both.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 05:23:13


Post by: Weazel


If you think TWC are our flankers/soft target killers what is our vanguard? Who does the heavy lifting?

Wulfen are great when they get stuck in, but getting them there reliably is an issue. Either you Hunt with them giving them a ~50% chance of making that 9" charge or you put them in a Stormwolf which is vulnerable at least on turn 1, probably turn 2 as well if you go second.

Björn and Shield Dreads backed by multiple characters?

Terminators?

Bloodclaws?


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 06:10:18


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Weazel wrote:
If you think TWC are our flankers/soft target killers what is our vanguard? Who does the heavy lifting?

Wulfen are great when they get stuck in, but getting them there reliably is an issue. Either you Hunt with them giving them a ~50% chance of making that 9" charge or you put them in a Stormwolf which is vulnerable at least on turn 1, probably turn 2 as well if you go second.

Björn and Shield Dreads backed by multiple characters?

Terminators?

Bloodclaws?


Knights with Space Wolves livery.
Just ask GW.
On a more serious note all of the above. Space Wolves’ bigger units suffer from being good at everything but not being great at anything. That is Close Combat in a nutshell, freaking amazing - if you make it.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 07:32:54


Post by: Garrlor


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
That other list sounds like my list I am currently running, 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Preds, and 30 grey hunters with some blood claws running around intercepting soft targets.

I think TWC work absolutely best when you add a wolf priest with a jump pack in and put some storm shields on them. Storm Shields give them that valuable 3++ save to protect them from heavy incoming enemy fire, and if they take wounds thanks to simply mass fire the wolf priest can heal them up. But I haven't considered putting bolters on them. Thats not a bad idea, but I still prefer my Wolf Guard on Bikes for that roll. Yes, its an index option, but 5 wolf guard on bikes with storm shields and storm bolters are 2 wounds, 12" move, 3++ save, and put out 8 shots each at 12". Thats a ton of firepower for a 5 man squad thats not easy to kill.

Besides, I already have my Wolf Guard on bikes modeled up that way.... I will be sad the day they are no longer legal.


Aren’t they already illegal? I seem to recall the big FAQ ‘ahem’ neutered that load out.

You can still run Bike Wolf Guard from the Index, just like you can run various SM characters on bikes. GW has said that the Index options are still valid for things that aren't in the Codex. Same with options on certain models, like Autocannons on Dreadnoughts. Eventually they might phase all that stuff out, but hopefully not for a while as it would completely invalidate a lot of people's cool conversions (some of which people spent a lot of time on).


I meant StormBolter/StormShield on WG Bikers.
I thought they got nerfed back to one or the other but not both.


They nerfed the stormbolter, stormshield AND chainsword loadout. Now they replace the bolter with a stormbolter, chainsword with a stormshield. Which is the same as normal Wolf Guard.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 07:56:47


Post by: Northern85Star


Well, competitively, we have to do what all other imperial players do: IG cp farm.

Then i would go 2 x wulfen, outflank. This forces the opponent away from the middle. For characters, atleast one rune priest for defensive measures. Probably wolf guards on bike with stormbolter.

A BA batallion with smash captains to kill the stuff that went out of reach of the wulfen. Scouts to hold objectives/screen.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 08:01:54


Post by: Dakka Wolf


 Garrlor wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
That other list sounds like my list I am currently running, 3 Whirlwinds, 3 Preds, and 30 grey hunters with some blood claws running around intercepting soft targets.

I think TWC work absolutely best when you add a wolf priest with a jump pack in and put some storm shields on them. Storm Shields give them that valuable 3++ save to protect them from heavy incoming enemy fire, and if they take wounds thanks to simply mass fire the wolf priest can heal them up. But I haven't considered putting bolters on them. Thats not a bad idea, but I still prefer my Wolf Guard on Bikes for that roll. Yes, its an index option, but 5 wolf guard on bikes with storm shields and storm bolters are 2 wounds, 12" move, 3++ save, and put out 8 shots each at 12". Thats a ton of firepower for a 5 man squad thats not easy to kill.

Besides, I already have my Wolf Guard on bikes modeled up that way.... I will be sad the day they are no longer legal.


Aren’t they already illegal? I seem to recall the big FAQ ‘ahem’ neutered that load out.

You can still run Bike Wolf Guard from the Index, just like you can run various SM characters on bikes. GW has said that the Index options are still valid for things that aren't in the Codex. Same with options on certain models, like Autocannons on Dreadnoughts. Eventually they might phase all that stuff out, but hopefully not for a while as it would completely invalidate a lot of people's cool conversions (some of which people spent a lot of time on).


I meant StormBolter/StormShield on WG Bikers.
I thought they got nerfed back to one or the other but not both.


They nerfed the stormbolter, stormshield AND chainsword loadout. Now they replace the bolter with a stormbolter, chainsword with a stormshield. Which is the same as normal Wolf Guard.


Haha!
There’s a way around everything!


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 08:42:35


Post by: Weazel


Wolf Guard Bikers used to be able to take a melee weapon, a stormbolter AND a stormshield. That's when I bought a bunch of them. Now they can use only two of the above, which means they are pretty much just a polished turd.

I mean sure they can pump out a lot of shots but at the end of the day they are just bolter shots. They can't follow up with a charge because without even chainswords they just downright suck at melee. And if you drop the stormshields for melee weapons their survivability kinda goes down the toilet. Also you have to move within 12" for that sweet rapid fire which means that even a lone guardsman can charge them and shut them down for a turn should he survive overwatch.

You can run a minimum unit as a harrassment/objective grabber but don't expect them to do anything significant.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 08:57:30


Post by: BrianDavion


BTW pretty minor thing but I happened to notice just now that the Primaris Battle leader does NOT have the Wolfguard keyword.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 09:15:12


Post by: lonewolf81


I believe wolves got the best marine codex so far because:

1. They do shooting better than all other marines thnx to reroll shenanigans for long fangs, cheaper guships than other marines, ignore minus to hit modifiers with the stratagem

2. They do combat better than other marines thnx to wulfen ( the best cc infantry in the game) and their chapter trait that buffs thunder hammers

3. Yes the other chapters get cheaper troops thnx to scouts but we get greyhunters with 3+ save and +1 attack with 2 points more

Blood angels have good close combat but death company and sanguinary guard are not as survivable as wulfen and thunderwolves, and they have mediocre shooting

Dark angels have good shooting but they are mediocre in cc

All marines have overcosted stuff and have the same points problem, but wolves are in the best position right now


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 09:36:47


Post by: BrianDavion


Space Wolves certainly are one of the better generalist codices right now, various other codices out perform at X, but I think Space Wolves have the most flexability to do everything decently well.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 09:49:50


Post by: Northern85Star


Our only problem is getting our heavy hitters reliably into combat. If outflanking wulfen misses the charge, they are toast. Which is why i think two units is needed. Both because with two units, statistically, one of them should make it - and because it takes serious firepower to kill them if they dont.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
We dont really need more melee than wulfen imo. They are that good (and that much better in CC than anything else, most of all because we are guaranteed value with them, striking back as they die).


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 10:04:06


Post by: Ragnar69


Putting Wulfen in a Stormwolf and deploying them last, far away and hopefully out of range of most of the enemies heavy weapons should hopefully be enough to keep the flyer alive to bring them where you need them T1. IF you can then get the -1 to hit strategem to protect it and also have some other scary targets like Long Fangs and TWC, they may even be able to disembark normaly instaed of climbing out of a burning wreck

Just have a small unit of GHs or BCs as ablative crash victims just in case.

Add in 3-4 jump pack characters, GHs and something shooty (WG with combi-plasma, helblasters, inceptors, tanks) and you are good to go.
And don't forget to take a few Cyber Wolves. They are cheap and usefull in many situations. Enemy has DS? Spread them around to deny the board. Smite? Put them to the front. Or just use them to grab uncontested objectives.

I am contemplating doing this with 6x5 GHs with a plasma each to have pure Wolves with 2 Battaillions


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 10:33:13


Post by: Northern85Star


Ragnar69 wrote:
Putting Wulfen in a Stormwolf and deploying them last, far away and hopefully out of range of most of the enemies heavy weapons should hopefully be enough to keep the flyer alive to bring them where you need them T1. IF you can then get the -1 to hit strategem to protect it and also have some other scary targets like Long Fangs and TWC, they may even be able to disembark normaly instaed of climbing out of a burning wreck

Just have a small unit of GHs or BCs as ablative crash victims just in case.

Add in 3-4 jump pack characters, GHs and something shooty (WG with combi-plasma, helblasters, inceptors, tanks) and you are good to go.
And don't forget to take a few Cyber Wolves. They are cheap and usefull in many situations. Enemy has DS? Spread them around to deny the board. Smite? Put them to the front. Or just use them to grab uncontested objectives.

I am contemplating doing this with 6x5 GHs with a plasma each to have pure Wolves with 2 Battaillions


It is my thought aswell, but if we really want it to shine, we need an IG cp battery (3 cp for shroud, 2 cp to shoot at deepstriking enemies, 3 cp to attack twice with wulfen or something else, to devestate whatever we get into in melee). Maybe the IG battery will get nerfed soon, but right now it is just too good - for the price of 3 x 5 GHs, you get two commisars and 3 x 10 guardsmen with a mortar in each. That is 5 cp, regain cp on 5+, and gain a cp on 5+ when opponent uses a cp. Basically adding 1/3 of your own and opponents cp to yours. (Explaining in case someone is unaware of the tourney meta - it seems like most people here are assessing according to it).


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 12:42:40


Post by: Ragnar69


But 3x5 GH is actually the cost that would give me a second sw battaillion as well as I actually want to field 4 HQs. So the only thing I would be missing would be the relic and that would cost 1 CP. So it would need to work at least twice to be worth it.
I ain't gonna paint 32 schmucks just for this


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 12:58:08


Post by: Azuza001


You dont have to. The list i am taking tonight in my game is mostly space wolves, but i have 1 ig commander and 3 scout sentinals that i am bringing for first turn shinanigans. I make him my warlord, give him the relic and warlord trait, bam. 170 pts for cp regen and 3 units that can help keep the pressure off important stuff. (47 pts for a scout sentinal is a damn good price)

Rest of the army runs pure wolves, i dont use my hq's as assault units anyways other than dragongaze. For 90 pts he is a steal.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 13:14:46


Post by: Northern85Star


I made a mistake, it isnt basically like adding 1/3 of own + opponents cp to yours, you also add 1/3 of those added cp... and 1/3 of those and so on. So you’re probably sitting on 20 cps or so with that battery.


For Russ and the Allfather! Space Wolves Tactica: (Codex Edition) @ 2018/09/05 16:13:53


Post by: Ragnar69


I'll be damned if would I make some IG schmuck the warlord of my Space Wolves. I would rather lose every single game. Some lines should not be crossed.