now that codex orks has finally come out, and the old tactics thread that revolved around the index is now over a year old https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/727761.page i have decided to start the discussion anew!
rejoice and WAAAAAAGHHHH!!!!!
now my own participation is spotty on dakkadakka. ill admit it. but while im active ill go ahead and get the thread started.
unlike jidmah i dont have the dedication to have a unit analysis. but anyone who posts after me can do so. if someone makes a better formatted thread then thats fine. im mainly making this as a place holder till a better one is started (but if we keep this one thats fine too).
but hey, lets not keep us from discovering new ways to krump,smash,bash,stomp,blast and zzap our many enemies in the meta,
and remember,try to be kind and to always...
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!
edit-
Since i much prefer all our cool vehicles to run in my lists i have usually tried to bring as many as i can in any game. This is a comprehensive list on how to run these as best as we can for our codex (just my thoughts, i imagine some of these tactics would be obvious). Note. this is is not to see what vehicles are the best to take in games, but rather a list to make the most out of any vehicle we might bring in a list. Why am i not doing normal infantry? simply is that they have the widest access to the stratagems and thus harder to narrow down what to use for them but also i have much more experience with our vehicles. Note, if you don't see a strat not listed on a vehicle though it can be used by that vehicle then its one ive deemed not worthwhile to use (at least it takes too many cp just to use for that particular vehicle and it might've best be used elsewhere).
Spoiler:
=Klan kulture Key
ES (evil sunz)
DS (death skulls)
BM (bad moon)
FB (freebooters)
SB (snakebites)
BA (blood axe)
=Codex vehicles/bikers
-Meganobz:cheaper than previously and even cheaper with their base loadout then last edition (i know they are neither a vehicle or warbiker but its worth to take a look at them with the codex). ES for faster manz and can get a better charge. Goffs if you want that chance for an extra attack or DS for rerolling an attack if you run them in smaller squads and can contest objectives. BA if you want to use “deadsneaky” to drop small groups of 4 around the table for a type of manz missile barrage. “Get stuck in ladz” but only if you have a large squad of manz in combat. “Mob up” and dajump (and warpath) can send a very large batch of manz in to the enemy. Tellyport can be useful. Cheap basic loadout manz are good to soak up the wounds while some of the squad can be the dual killsaws. If they are DS and in a large unit then use “wreckers” against vehicles. “Loot it” might be worth it but there is still debate on what plus one armor on a 2up save unit will do.
-Nobz on warbikes: ES if want to equip for melee and to get into combat as soon as possible. If you want dakka versions of these models then use index wpn options and give them all kombi skorchas and run them as BA to be able to get out of combats and still shoot when they are charged.billowing exhaust clouds is essential to help this unit survive (especially if its a large expensive unit).DS and “wreckers” might make for a good combo with a melee focused large squad.
-Warbikers:for their points warbikers seem more suited as a short ranged shooting unit, use them to clear chaff units so that better units can charge the main target. ES for still being able to shoot full BS after advancing. BM to improve their shooting. BA to get out of unwanted combat and still shoot. Shooting min squads of warbikers with a nob with killsaw/bigchoppa as a fast unit to claim objectives and occasionally charge smaller weaker enemy units. Billowing exhaust clouds is best for a large squad. “More dakka” would help in their shooting. ES and Drive by krumping to do the tau “move shoot move”.
-Kustom boosta blasta:this is a confused vehicle. Flamers are good for close range killing of chaff, and the ram is good for the charge but with a lack of a melee wpn you will want to keep this out of combat. BA to stay out of combat and still shoot. The kannon is good for decent ranged shooting of killing MEQs, so BM might work well for better long range shooting. Since all new buggies split into individual units then stratagems are not worth it (unless you have extra cp you won't be using for anything else..take this same advice for the rest of the new buggies).
-Shockjump dragsta: while this model a melee wpn its not that great, its far better used as a shooting unit. DS for the best result for getting the most out of the shokk rifle. ES so that you can get a better shock tunnel chance and still fire the shock rifle at full bs after the jump (the 24inch range of the gun might make it better for ES so it can better get at enemy backfield units).
-Boomdakka snazzwagons:this vehicle wants to get as close to the enemy as possible. Using the grenades and the main gun to kill chaff and MEQs but to increase the chances for it to be killed and to use that better chance to explode on a 4. BM for better shooting, BA to get out of unwanted combats so it can shoot some more
.
-Megatrakk scrapjetutside the defkilla watrike this will be the best melee unit out of the new buggies.BM or DS for better shooting, but BA seems better for combat. With BA you can use the ram again and again (since it only works on the charge), this along with the nosedrill (pretty much a pk with 4 attacks) will make this a good anti knight unit.
-Rukkatrukk squigbuggie:this is a shooting unit. Its saw blades are barly worth mentioning. Run as BM for best shooting output or DS for some decent shooting but to also get a 6invul save so it has the chance to drop its mine (mines will help slow enemy movement and help guard objectives).
-Deffkopta:being cheaper makes this a more viable shooting unit. The speed/fly of this unit will help it get its twin rokets into range. BM seems best for shooting potential. Either run as a single model for objective grabbing or in a full squad to best get the most out of its shooting with stratagems. billowing exhaust clouds will help with survivability. “More dakka” for maxing shooting.“long uncontrolled bursts” if you want to shoot anything that flies.run as ES to use “drive by krumpin” to pop out of cover to shoot and pop back in (convert from crisis suits to further rub this in the face of your tau opponents).
-Mek gunz: with no access to kultures or any strategem the only thing to help support this unit is the KFF. run with smasha guns for cheapest option and best for killing anything around T6 (3 smashas with DDD killed a riptide in one of my games in a strong alpha strike). Run the traktor kannon for auto hitting anything and to bring extra devastation to most eldar players and any vehicle that flies (also no issue moving this unit since it will always shoot at full BS). run the KMK to be the ultimate knight hunter (the only thing that benefits mek guns is DDD and it procked more often than i thought it would).bubble chucka seems too randum for its price (bring if you want your shooting to be more quirky i guess).
-Battlewagon:this is pretty much only should be a transport/shooting platform for units embarked inside. No real reason to take the ardcase since if you want that then might as well take the other wagon variants. Any wargear should be taken in its cheapest and if you have the points (priority for deathrolla for some good combat after it drops whatever it transported).ES for as much speed as possible to deliver its cargo or DS to get the 6up invul. A battlewagon can hold a squad of 15 tankbustas with 5 bombsquigs and “tellyported” for a true missile boat bomb (give it a killkanon with DS for decent shooting). “Boarding action” was designed for this model and if you want to charge the wagon in and disembark after then use this strat to get the embarked units a chance to swing (any embarked unit that can take pk or killsaws in mass would hit the hardest), combo this with ramming speed. Tellyport with ramming speed and boarding actions can make this a good charge bomb.
-Gunwagon:not suited for about any transport if you want to use the periscope ability (maybe grots or boys to disembark to help keep this vehicle from being charged). The best main gun to use the periscope is the killkannon despite it being only 24inch range (since the killkannon is S8 it can hurt large vehicles now). Run as BM for best shooting. Run as DS for durability combined with some shooting bonuses. There is an argument to run this in a FB detachment and keep it nearby good shooting units so it can become BS4. “more dakka” can help its shooting.
-Bonebreaka:a sleeper hit, we might see a comeback of the 6th edition dethrolla blitz brigades. Only ever run this thing with the dethrolla. Don't bother with shooting wpns since this thing wants to go fast and keep charging (all its big wpns are hvy and can't shoot after advancing). ES to help with closing the distance. BA to best use the ram (only works on the charge) on leaving combat and charging again. Maybe have a small melee focus unit inside to get out before this hits the enemy lines repeatedly. ”ramming speed” will help this start its charging spree. Tellyporta will help this close the distance without relying on ES. goff for best combat.
-Killa kans:while they got cheaper the inability for this unit to benefit from kulture or stratagems will be a limitation. Their bonuses will have to come from other units. Bring a snakebite warlord with associated trait to prevent moral losses. Run these models cheap with big shootas and run along side the wartrike to help their charges, have a banner nob there to make them hit the hardest. Running kans as FB with a FB warlord with associated trait will allow reroll 1s to hit in combat. For a shooting focused kan army the DDD will be useful and run them along the KFF for protection, for best shooting run the index kmb option or the codex roket.
-Deff dreads: can now take nothing but guns if you want to make gun dredds (but since they separate into individual models there are few stratagems this unit can make useful) but it might be best to keep one melee wpn to use the models attacks with a good profile. ES for speed and charges. DS for protections and decent shooting (a 3 kmb dredd can be nasty). Run FB for a chance to increase to BS4. tellyport is probably the best and only stratagem for this unit (since a whole unit of 3 will fit and only will split after its tellyported). Running an all claw/saw tellyport deffdredds can rival the gorkanaut in the category of deepstrike melee goodness.
-Morkanaut:might be the only model worthwhile to use the “force field projeckta” strat on since its bubble will be the biggest to cover the most. Run as BM to use its anti tank dakka to the the fullest. Tellyport with KFF to help cover any other deepstriking units and get a chance to charge..
-Gorkanaut: with its price this model might only ever be best used in a tellyporta with ramming speed to make the most out of this unit. ES to ensure the charge. DS to get an invul and help with combat. Goff for the best melee output. Ramming speed will make this thing a nightmare for your opponents.
-Trukk:run as cheap as possible and give it a wrecking ball if you have the extra points in order to make it a little useful in combat. I would suggest running cheap melee units in this transport so you can take multiple trucks with similar units just for enemy target saturation. ES for speed, DS for some survivability. Just like the new buggies there is little use for stratagems for use with trucks except maybe “boarding action”.
-Dakkajet:BM semes the best fit to get the most out of its six super shootas. Long uncontrollable bursts will make this thing pretty deadly against anything that sports the fly keyword.
-Burna bommer:BM to max shooting. ES to make its burna bomb runs more successful. This thing is best used to clear infantry.
-blitza bommer: same advice as the burna bommer except that this unit is better against big vehicles/monster.
-Wazbomblastajet:KFF on this might not be very useful since it cant stick with any unit you have. With the improvement of any kustom mega weapon then that will probably be the best gun to keep.BM will work best will making this thing the shootiest and combine with more dakka to hit the hardest with the mega kannons.
-Stompa:still super expensive. But if you plan to run a fluffy game and want the stompa in it then youll want a KFF in it or nearby. Its pricey to get any kulture since it has to be put in a supreme command detachment. BM for its shooting, ES for speed and to get into combat., goffs to help get it combat worthy. Ramming speed helps charges, more dakka for shooting. DS for a native invul and to use wreckers to help it in combat against knight equivalents.
-mek shop: buy it for terrain….that's it. Any benefit it can do is not enough to sacrifice a units whole turn (a unit on average will shoot more/move more in 2 turns then being stuck at the shop to get a worthless upgrade). Maybe it can be a nice line of sight blocker since it can't be targeted but that doesn't seem worth the price. This thing isn't even worth it if it was free.
=Index
-Warbuggie:without DDD these index options buggies won't have the same damage potential as the new buggies, but since they can be taken in squads of 5 they can get more bang for the buck out of a few stratagems better than the new buggies. Run BM to max out shooting. DS with wreckers can make a rocket equipped squad good against many tough vehicles. Tellyporta can help get a squad with rockets in closer to the enemy.
-Wartrack: is just a little beefier then the warbuggie if not as much speed. What was said for buggies works for wartracks.
-Skorcha (wartrack with skorcha): good for burning any MEQ, run them as ES to get to range quicker but it's more useful to run them as BA in order to get out of unwanted combats and still skorch anything (went to a tournament with 15 of these skorchas and my most common problem was getting the skorchas combat locked by units that don't care about the flamers).
-Defkopta with killsaws:the index only option to take the killsaw on this unit completely changes how this unit should be ran so i separated it from the normal codex entry. The killsaw is using only 2 attacks but the mobility of this unit can make it useful for hitting hard to reach targets fairly hard. Would run with twin big shootas to keep them cheap. Run in small single units if you have the extra points or as large squads to max out the damage on a charge. ES so they can get better charges when they scout around. Run them as goffs to improve their melee. DS if you run them individually. Ramming speed can guarantee the charge. Billowing exhaust clouds if they are stuck out in the open.
-big guns:so far without DDD and any access to any codex stuff makes this unit not as killy as the mek gun. this unit still has the grot crew that works in the old way and can be used to get plenty of small screens of gretchin infantry that can fuel the “grot shields” stratagem for other units.
edit=big guns can use kultures and stratagems, since the gretchin are a separate unit and the gun itself is not gretchin, also while the grots nearby allow the gun to shoot it is still the gun that shoots. DS is the best for any squad of biggunz (except BM for lobbas). no strats are quite worth it becasue the squad still separates. grot shield for grots for another orc infantry unit. maybe throw some guns in tellyport?
=Imperial armor (not gonna bother with the faq units, they are narrative only units)
-Grottanks: suffers from the same issues that mek guns and bigguns have but FW was gracious enough to give everything in the index DDD. run these as cheap units to get the benefit of shooting with DDD. the KMB will be the best option for these with its price and its great damage output.
-Grot mega tank:take the same advice of the grottanks, run with KMB in mass and destroy any vehicle that gets close.
-Squigoth:probably best to run as BA so its charge ability can be used repeatedly. Tellyport can get these closer and transport something in the meantime (any good shooting unit to make use of the howdah). ES if your worried its too slow.
-Meka dread:the mega charga is a free upgrade and combined with ES can make this thing blindingly fast. KFF can help cover nearby units (but at that point it might be more useful to run a morkanaut). with access to the now better killkannon can make this unit more useful in the shooting phase. Bring the killkannon to shoot large targets or the rattler cannon to shoot chaf. This model is not as tough as gorkanaut but with 2 claws it has the same amount of attacks (except no smash profile) and its attacks don't decrease if it takes damage. Tellyport this for good charging with a guarantee with ramming speed. BM and More dakka would work well already with this models native BS4. make that BS3 if you run this as FB shenanigans.
-Lifta wagon:this model has essentially a long range auto hitting smasha gun that instead does mortal wounds. Use against T6 models (because it autohits it will ignore the benefit of any shooting kulture or stratagem).dethrolla can make this useful in combat (run either as ES or goff).
-Big trakk:my experience with this model was using it with the supa skorcha. Run as BA to still shoot after leaving combat. Open Topped makes this a decent shooting platform that has good shooting itself.
-Battlewagon with supa kannon: this can be a decent shooting platform for small units of lootas and with BM it can get some good shots out along with more dakka.
-Kill tank:same issues as the stompas/gargantuan squiggoth, you will have to run in a supreme command detachment to just get a kulture. BM to get most out its dakka. Run as FB to get the chance to become BS3. gigga shootas vrs MEQ and bursta kannon against knight equivalents.
-Chinrok warkopta:the fly keyword can make this more useful than a truck. ES for the speediest. BM if you equip this with better guns. Long uncontrolled bursts can make this good against other fly units.use this to transport any good shooting unit.
-Kustom stompa: same advice as the normal stompa, but the double claws can be useful in taking down a knight (did so in an apok game).
-Gargantuan squiggoth:same advice as the squiggoth (but cannot be tellyported) but a focus to get a kff nearby or inside. And to get the use of the kultures it will need to be taken in a supreme command detachment.
for any one with a list of they would like added to this post under a spoiler tag then feel free to private message me. ill review it and then post it on here.
Wondering on grenades, we have the "one in ten may carry a tankbusta bomb" thing, usually only one model can lob a grenade - but the "morr stickbombs" thing allows up to ten.
guessing a mob of 30 boys that would mean three tankbusta and seven normal?
still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise
still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise
does sound good, but a few issues/suggestions. grenades are very short range. more efficient to throw from inside a transport that rush to the enemy.
but if you want to do a squad of 30... run the big blob of boyz as bloodaxe. use dead sneeky to get them close to the enemy. charge, then fsll back, throw grenade strat and then charge again with blood axe trait.
this seems the most likely way to use "extra stickbombs" if you want to do it for a large 30man blob.
Evil sun for reliable charge. Not much that can survive 2 rounds vs 30 charging boyz so fall back thing not neccessary. And if you really want that have warlord nearby
Ironically enough all my boyz are indeed blud axes and did wonder on the fall back strat, however its fall back then shoot or charge so can't drop back, grenade then pile back in.
there is however nothing to stop a mob of 30 being kunning, charging in fighting and the survivors pulling back, chucking grenades and then another unit piling forwards to whats hopefully now not a very large enemy unit.
it comes over as an ability thats not game breaking, just nice when you can get it as most squads anti tank grenades are one per squad, as I read it we can give one in ten boyz the tank busta bomb, nothing says onely one model in ten of a units current size can use it so when the mob is down to four models it can be three with bombz and a nob...
Not sure boyz are finished, despite GWs efforts, but they are going to need a CP battery to manage anything and its going to be an even more fragile army as a result, but likely a much more mobile one, I suspect we still have a good mix of T1 charges then plenty of ways to get boyz in on T2 as a follow up.
can see the Ork version of the "loyal 32" featuring a fair bit, indeed scope for doing it twice then a third formation of "the rest"
geargutz wrote: now my own participation is spotty on dakkadakka. ill admit it. but while im active ill go ahead and get the thread started.
unlike jidmah i dont have the dedication to have a unit analysis. but anyone who posts after me can do so. if someone makes a better formatted thread then thats fine. im mainly making this as a place holder till a better one is started (but if we keep this one thats fine too).
No offense, but the whole point of starting the thread is keeping the first post up to date. People are going to be reading the first post to find out what's going on with orks, so if you start the thread, it's your job to make sure people find what they are a looking for. I didn't write the unit analysis either (I think I gave proper credit in the thread) you can just ask the people to do it for you.
Don't worry, I would happily have someone else take care the tactics thread, as long as it's properly done.
On topic, my analysis after my first read-through of the codex:
Datasheets:
- Warboss gained two(!) sluggas and must take a kombi-shoota in addition. Gukk is the basic warboss model now.
- SAGd6 damage (up from d3) and mortal wounds in addition to normal damage, rather than instead
- Snikrot T5 now, up from 4
- Badrukk's weapon now causes d3 wounds to him when overheating instead of 1 (missing from table in the back, so maybe a typo?)
- Zagstrukk can now make 3 attacks with his legs (up from 2) and gained "Blitz Missiles": 18" Assault 1 S6 Ap-1 D1d3
- Boss Nobz in boyz mobs have same options as nobz in nobz mobs (killsaws, powa stabbas).
- No more killsaw for pain boyz
- 'urty syringe grants an additional attack, but wounds on 4+ now (6+ for vehicle/titanic), was
- Minimek is now stuck with kustom mega slugga with no weapon options
- Runtherd lost its stikkbombs again
- You must field one unit of gretchin for every runtherd you field, but runtherds no longer need elite slots
- Waaagh! Banner nob gained a choppa
- No more options for kommandoz but a tankbusta bomb per 5 models, only nob that can't have nob weapons (stuck with PK)
- Warbiker boss nobz and nob bikers have full access to all nob gear except kombi-weapons
- Stormboyz boss nob has full access to nob gear including kombi-weapons
- Koptas lost KMB option and gained a free slugga
- Mek guns are now WS5+ S2 A6 from WS6+ S3 A1 (meh?), gretchin must be within 1" of the gun but they and the gun count as one model, similar to Azrael's helmet carrier. For casual games, just don't put gretchin on the table.
- Killkannon is S8 now, up from S7
- New wagon upgrades: Lobba can be taken in addition to other turret weapons, stikkbomb chukka (12" assault stikkbomb if passengers are inside), killkannon and kannon/zzap gun now exclude each other (could have both previously)
- Neither killkannon nor 'ard case reduce transport capacity
- All transports can transport FLASHGITS or <CLAN> models (so no freeboota boyz unless the BW is freeboota as well)
- No deff rolla for gunwagon, all other options available
- Bonebreaka has no limitation on options
- All four arms of the deff dread can be switched for skorchas, kmb, rokkit or dreadsaw. So you can have a dread with four skorchas or KMB
- You cannot trade for big shootas for dread klaws. Therefore you can only have maximum of two dread klaws plus up to two dread saws if you want to go all combat weapons
- Wrecking Ball now +2S AP-1 D2 (up from +1S AP-1 D1)
- Ramshackle for Trukks unchanged
- Max dice rolled for Blitza Bommer's Boom Bomb is 12(up from 10), no change to burna bommer
- Tellyporta Mega-Blasta up to D1d3 (from D1), still teleports stuff into the ground
- Super-Heavy Aux is excluded from detachment benefits, but regular aux detachment (-1 CP) is not
- Exceptions only for FLASHGITS, not for freebootas in general
- A weirdboyz casting fists of gork on himself has 5 S9 AP-1 D1d3 attacks, you'll never lack a target for this
Stratagems:
- Heal ork character within 3" of a pain boy for d3 wounds (1 CP)
- Ramming speed causes d3 mortal wounds on 2+
- Grot screen can only protect infantry
- Deff skulls stratagem allows re-roll to wound against vehicles and can be used in any phase
Relics:
- 'Eadwhompas killchoppa still does mortal wounds instead of regular damage (was leaked as MW and damage)
- Gitstoppa Shells only affect shoota profiles, and all of them are S4 AP0, which become S5 AP-1. Skorcha and rokkit explicitly not affected
- Da Lukky Stikk can go on a goff wartrike to make it a scary fighter
- Red armour triggers mortal wounds for models with 1" at the beginning of your movement phase, making it all but useless
- Bad Moons character can have the blunderbuss replace the shoota have of a kombi-skorcha, giving him 3d6 S5 AP-1 auto-hits
- Freebootas banner is used at the beginning of your moral phase, so you can't accidentally waste it
Warlord traits:
- First generic trait also gives the warlord the breakin' heads ability in addition to Waaagh!, very useful for a wartrike. Warbosses that get this trait get +3" on both their Waaagh! and breakin' heads. Last, but not least, one free CP, no matter who you made the boss.
- Kunnin but brutal moves d3 ork units of any type (one of the rumors said infantry only)
- Snakebite warlord trait makes kanz fearless
koooaei wrote: What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.
The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.
That warlord trait to add 3" to an advance could make a world of difference on a green tide. Combining that with evil sunz would give them a very considerable reach.
My favourite part is getting 1+ save Meganobs with the Loot It stratagem, 2+ Bodyguards with Grot Shields and 6+++ from a Painboy/Snakebites. Clearly we have entered the age of the Final Meta.
koooaei wrote: What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.
The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.
BaconCatBug wrote: Boyz are finished IMHO. You're going to want to take CP Battery Big Mek+Grot Battalions and then other good stuff.
There are tons of ways to still use boyz. Especially because many of the buff-stratagems are best used on very big units.
1) Take 4-10 minimum squads of Death skulls boyz with a Rokkit Launcha. They have objective secured, they can deal with hordes and screens, they give you CP's, and with their rokkits and tankbusta-bombs they can threaten even heavy stuff, because each unit can reroll the hit, wound and damage die. You can give them an inexpensive trukk to ride in, which in of itself is a very useful tool.
2) Another use is to Jump in 30-40 Evil Sunz boyz on Turn 1. With their plus 1 and buffed charge reroll, they are pretty likely to get into combat. That has to be one of the best T1 bombs in the game right now.
3) Combine the above with the fight twice stratagem and you can easily tie up a gunline on turn 1. You Jump in, charge, pile in and fight his screen. The you consolidate, use the stratagem and pile in to whatever he was screening. You would be surprised by how many players forgets to keep 7" minimum distance between screen and gunline. Sometimes it is not even possible in a crowded 12" deployment zone.
4) Another idea is to jump in 30-40 Bad Moon shoota-boyz into cover and shoot twice with them. They will do some damage, command a LOT of attention, and on T2 they will engage something with certainty. It is very much like that Tyranid troll strategy, with the six-shot per model deep striking Termagents. The boyz will do less damage on the turn they arrive, but they will also be slightly less exensive, far harder to remove, and their CC-threat will be much greater.
5) Another idea is to put 30 Goffs in the tellyporta, 30 Death Skullz in reserve, and then deploy them T2 with some kommandos and Storm boyz. That way you can deploy your tough multiwound units on the board, and deprive your opponents anti-horde weapons something to shoot at, even though you are in fact bringing a balanced army. Which leads us to...
6) Many of the above strategies combines well with an army not made entirely out of boyz. This contrasts nicely with the index, where boyz were very good, but only combined well with even more boyz.
koooaei wrote: What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.
The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.
Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.
Yes, but the bigger the unit, the more you can engage when consolidating. But I agree with what you are saying: The biggest knock on boyz is that Nobz can do a lot of the things boyz can do, and in some cases do it better.
BaconCatBug wrote: Boyz are finished IMHO. You're going to want to take CP Battery Big Mek+Grot Battalions and then other good stuff.
5) Another idea is to put 30 Goffs in the tellyporta, 30 Death Skullz in reserve, and then deploy them T2 with some kommandos and Storm boyz. That way you can deploy your tough multiwound units on the board, and deprive your opponents anti-horde weapons something to shoot at, even though you are in fact bringing a balanced army. Which leads us to...
How do you get the 30 Death skullz in reserve if you've already used the tellyporta?
koooaei wrote: What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.
The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.
Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.
Yeah, but what unit is going to have enough bodies/attacks by the time it gets into combat to make the 3CP worth spending? Maybe Stormboyz, but they are just more expensive Boyz. Nobz won't survive unless you Battlewagon them and by that point you've automatically lost the efficiently fight.
My point still stands that using the Fight Again stratagem on Boyz is a waste.
koooaei wrote: What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.
The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.
Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.
Yes, but the bigger the unit, the more you can engage when consolidating. But I agree with what you are saying: The biggest knock on boyz is that Nobz can do a lot of the things boyz can do, and in some cases do it better.
Something to not forget is that warbosses (and other characters, like thrakka) are infantry, too. A warboss with the relic klaw and the +1 damage trait can fight, fight again, then die and fight another time. Don't forget to name him Warboss Slams-gits-for-us
How do you get the 30 Death skullz in reserve if you've already used the tellyporta?
My mistake. You can put a mob of Boyz into the tellyporter and the other mob has to be blood axes, with their dead sneaky stratagem. That way you can have a combined army without getting destroyed in your first turn
This is what I like the best about the codex, the apparent ability to combine Boyz with something else than more Boyz, grots and characters.
Orks seem like they have the tools to be perfect for the meta. Horde, cheap, but lots of deadly tools. Tankbusters in truks (also great for drive by grenades), bonebreaker party bus, mek guns, dakka jets, most the new buggies, etc. The meta rewards a high/lo style army and orks can deliver.
Okay so with the deffkilla wartrike, it allows bikes and vehicles to charge after advancing, so now we need to also grab a warboss over the other useful characters.
Unless.
You spend the CP for an extra relic, take the relic for extra warlord trait and grant a weirdboy the waagh ability. Now you can advance boyz and vehicle qithout having to invest in the warboss. I know people were going to be taking the weirdboy anyway. Is there any restriction to doing this?
Also why wouldn't you do this? Apparently the follow me ladz WT grants +1 CP so the point spent is essentially refunded.
buddha wrote: Orks seem like they have the tools to be perfect for the meta. Horde, cheap, but lots of deadly tools. Tankbusters in truks (also great for drive by grenades), bonebreaker party bus, mek guns, dakka jets, most the new buggies, etc. The meta rewards a high/lo style army and orks can deliver.
I disagree. The meta definitely strongly favours spamming lots of the same stuff combined with more of the same stuff. The reserve-stratagems is a way of getting around that.
Overall I'm really happy with the 'dex after flipping through it. I am however disappointed that spanners are now 1 for every 5 models instead of simply up to 3.
Tankhammers have also been nerfed in that regard, now you can only have 1 for every 5 models instead of 2 for every 5. That basically makes them useless IMO since the majority of the unit doesn't want to be in CC even if you give the nob a power klaw. Shame
Guys, I just realised (slash was told) that if Meganobz "Loot it!" then they become effectively 2++.
Because you cannot modify below 1 thanks to the Designers Commentary, and the Dark Eldar FAQ confirmed the RaW that only unmodified 1's fail, not modified 1's (the wording is the same for both To Hit and To Save, "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." therefore the same rules apply).
That means if you have Meganobz that are 1+ save, and are hit by an AP-5 weapon, you roll a D6-5, which due to the Designers Commentary can be modified to the following values: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 or 1, which means all rolls other than a natural 1 pass. The same applies for all other AP values (even AP0, since the natural 1 fails).
Remember, FAQs are Rules as "Intended", so if anyone argues with you they must be trying to abuse the rules! /s (Mod Disclaimer: This is a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek joke, not an attack on anyone.)
BaconCatBug wrote: Guys, I just realised (slash was told) that if Meganobz "Loot it!" then they become effectively 2++.
Because you cannot modify below 1 thanks to the Designers Commentary, and the Dark Eldar FAQ confirmed the RaW that only unmodified 1's fail, not modified 1's (the wording is the same for both To Hit and To Save, "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." therefore the same rules apply).
That means if you have Meganobz that are 1+ save, and are hit by an AP-5 weapon, you roll a D6-5, which due to the Designers Commentary can be modified to the following values: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 or 1, which means all rolls other than a natural 1 pass. The same applies for all other AP values (even AP0, since the natural 1 fails).
Remember, FAQs are Rules as "Intended", so if anyone argues with you they must be trying to abuse the rules! /s (Mod Disclaimer: This is a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek joke, not an attack on anyone.)
Is misunderstanding rules and making nonsensical generalizations your "thing"? Because looking at your signature, that seems to be the case. Meganobz with "Loot it" hit by an ap-5 weapon go to a 6+ save. Or is this all just joking self-parody? Because, you know... Poe's Law.
He is just here to cause trouble. Plus he is proven lier. Not worth wasting time reading him
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Rismonite wrote: In matched play, are we allowed to use the Tellyporta Stratagem more then once?
Yes. Its pregame so unless Specified otherwise like extra reiics you can use strategem in deployment as much as you wish cp and other restrictions(like half points max into reserves.
Good thing too. Deep strike is only thing holding orks together now
No offense, but the whole point of starting the thread is keeping the first post up to date. People are going to be reading the first post to find out what's going on with orks, so if you start the thread, it's your job to make sure people find what they are a looking for. I didn't write the unit analysis either (I think I gave proper credit in the thread) you can just ask the people to do it for you.
Don't worry, I would happily have someone else take care the tactics thread, as long as it's properly done.
no offence taken. i didnt see credit for the unit analysis on the post with it so i thought you had done it.
ill gladly post a unit analysis up if someone else does it. if someone does it then a private message should be enough to inform me to put it out at the front (especially if the unit analysis is somehow hidden in the thread and i dont notice it).
ill try my best in that regard, but no guarantee. in a few weeks i might lose interest in dakkadakka. like i said, im not the most active. but i started this to help get a ball rolling. ill try my best to come back. if there is any good/fair unit analysis then please message me it and ill put it at the front.
leopard wrote: Wondering on grenades, we have the "one in ten may carry a tankbusta bomb" thing, usually only one model can lob a grenade - but the "morr stickbombs" thing allows up to ten.
guessing a mob of 30 boys that would mean three tankbusta and seven normal?
still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise
That's what I'm doing. I cannibalized all of mine for kitbashed tankbustas. As soon as i heard about boyz with meltabombs, I bought out all of them from WindowBox on ebay. Should have 14 in my mailbox today.
question on the boomdakka snazzwagon.
It says each of its crew has a grotblasta and burnabomb. I dont see anything saying how many crew it has, how many is this? I am ASSUMING the "grot wit needs a lessun" upfront doesnt count as crew.
BaconCatBug wrote: Guys, I just realised (slash was told) that if Meganobz "Loot it!" then they become effectively 2++.
Because you cannot modify below 1 thanks to the Designers Commentary, and the Dark Eldar FAQ confirmed the RaW that only unmodified 1's fail, not modified 1's (the wording is the same for both To Hit and To Save, "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." therefore the same rules apply).
That means if you have Meganobz that are 1+ save, and are hit by an AP-5 weapon, you roll a D6-5, which due to the Designers Commentary can be modified to the following values: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 or 1, which means all rolls other than a natural 1 pass. The same applies for all other AP values (even AP0, since the natural 1 fails).
Remember, FAQs are Rules as "Intended", so if anyone argues with you they must be trying to abuse the rules! /s (Mod Disclaimer: This is a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek joke, not an attack on anyone.)
Is misunderstanding rules and making nonsensical generalizations your "thing"? Because looking at your signature, that seems to be the case. Meganobz with "Loot it" hit by an ap-5 weapon go to a 6+ save. Or is this all just joking self-parody? Because, you know... Poe's Law.
Ok, I'm going to try my hand at a ranking for the clan kulturs; please give feedback on these rankings and if we reach some sort of consensus we can put this into the OP. I'll post one at a time and edit this post as I go.
Evil Suns: A-Tier
Adds +1" to movement, advance, and charge rolls. Advancing and firing assault weapons does not incure the -1 to hit penalty.
Evil Suns is definitely the meta pick for a wide variety of army types. The extra movement gives footslogging boyz and walkers a considerable threat range. The bonus to charge rolls allows reliable charges out of deepstrike, whether it be from the tellyporta stratagem or da jump. Vehicle and bike-heavy lists also have the potential to threaten a turn 1 charge if your opponent doesn't deploy considerably far back. The ability to keep shooting with assault weapons at full effect while racing up the field ensures that you don't have to sacrifice your shooting to do so.
The Evil Suns stratagem is a good one, allowing you an additional move action on a speed freeks unit so long as you don't charge. Enables some fun jump-shoot-jump shenanagins or long distance objective grabbing.
The Evil Suns Warlord trait allows units to charge even if they fell back earlier in the turn if they are within 6" of the warlord. This is a great trait that really steps on the toes of blood axes. More mobility is always good.
The relic for Evil Suns is the weakest aspect here. Mortal wounds to units within 1" of a vehicle the bearer is embarked on. This requires the bearer to not only wait about inside a transport without getting in the thick of it themselves, but also activates in the movement phase, meaning it is only affecting things you charged that didn't fall back. Pretty useless. There are better relics.
Death Skulls: B+ Tier
Allows one re-roll to hit, to wound, and damage roll per unit. All units gain a 6++ invulnerable save. All infantry have objective secured.
Death Skulls is another strong kultur. I've ranked it a B+ because I feel it caters more to MSU play while Evil Suns caters to getting stuck in as fast as possible, and I feel the latter is stronger for orks. That doesn't make them bad though. Far from it. The huge amount of re-rolls is really useful for min squads of boyz with rokkits and tankbusta bombs, as well as anything else with a few high-value shots (shokk jump dragsta as well as other buggies, SAG big mek, CC attacks for things like powerklaws that have accuracy issues and variable damage rolls, etc. The 6++ is nice for infantry to ensure they always get their T-shirts, but the addition of obsec for all infantry is huge, especially considering the MSU-style of death skulls lends itself to running things like nobs in trukks, who can really benefit from this rule.
The Death Skulls stratagem allows you to re-roll wound rolls against a vehicle target. This is a nice damage boost and will certainly see use.
The Death Skulls warlord trait allows you to target enemy characters within 18" and re-rolls 1's in cc with a vehicle. Fairly meh. Your warlord is unlikely to be carrying a weapon that is decent for sniping characters, and if you want to go vehicle hunting, there are better warlord traits, like Brutal but Kunnin'.
Their relic gives a unit the mekaniak ability, or if they already have it, they always heal 3 wounds instead of 1. This is nice, but by its nature, 8th edition involves focusing vehicles down in a single turn rather than damaging them just a little bit. If your opponent wants something dead, 3 extra wounds likely won't be enough. Might be useful in the late game when shooting has decreased if you have a lot of vehicles that your mek can keep up with though.
Currently in the process of building a battle wagon, pretty modular but now having read the book the plan is roughly thus...
Bonebreaker, for the bonus attacks on the charge, contains a unit of nobz, various weapons including a few klaws.
this is in my Blood Axe army, idea is to pile forwards (and when I get the trike) advance then charge using the Ramming Speed ability, nobz stay inside.
following turn, Nobz dismount, use the Blood Axe ability to pull back, the nobz are now in an easy charge range and the wagon can ram again for the bonus again if desired (or just charge usually).
needs something else to go in with it, specifically to make sure there is space around the wagon occupied by Orks (stop the wagon being surrounded) - these support models move before the wagon unloads and backs off - a mob of boyz will be plenty (via Da Jump possibly, or if on the second turn more conventional tricks), could use bikes though to taste.
the wagon gets a mahoosive "kill me now" sign on it, but if its absorbing firepower its allowing something else to close up, keep the nobz not too expensive (i.e. not too many upgrades, their job is to unload at close range, a bit of shooting then charge, after that its charge then maybe fall back and charge again - a few combi-scorcha?).
its not too many points, the wagon gets only assault weapons so it can fire on its way in, but not too many since its pull back or shoot.
Don't think this is game winning but that wagon looks nasty up close D6+6 attacks, or more likely 2D6 when damaged hitting on a 2+ is going to make a mess
As a die hard Evil Sunz player I'm trying to figure out if I like that warlord trait or not. Instinctively I thought it was great but I'm actually starting to struggle to find scenarios I'd use it in all that often. Well okay, maybe not struggle, but can you guys help me fill in some possible uses for it? These ones are pretty decent IMO but surely there are some that I'm missing.
The deffkilla has that sweet falling back stratagem that you can pop (and maybe combine with ramming speed) but you still lose out on your shooting. Unless you're subject to overwatch it's better than nothing obviously still.
Otherwise it can be used to tie up units in CC to at least somewhat protect them from enemy shooting (assuming you actually tie up dangerous shooting units) and then have the flexibility to go wherever you want. Works best with units that have poor shooting.
The Bonebreaka seems ideal for the task, get extra attacks on the charge, can tank overwatch from most things and optional armaments.
The trait with stack pretty well with deffkoptas because of FLY I guess
So can extra stikkbombs stratagem let them throw one per boy?
Correct, but you're only going to be able to throw 3 plus 7 Stikkbombs. It's more useful to pewpew on close range chargers, especially because you're hitting on 6's anyway and you have Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!
So can extra stikkbombs stratagem let them throw one per boy?
Correct, but you're only going to be able to throw 3 plus 7 Stikkbombs. It's more useful to pewpew on close range chargers, especially because you're hitting on 6's anyway and you have Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!
Nightlord1987 wrote: Hmm. The Red armor relic might have a purpose... In that an enemy charging a vehicle to lock it might not be a safe bet. Still probably not worth it.
Rezmekkas redder armour is probably a decent fit on a normal mek in a bonebreaka. That's sort of what An Actual Englishman and myself spawned up as an idea. The enemy can leave the combat but would be subject to a stronger attack via the charge. Plus an extra 1" of move might help with getting a T1 charge every now and then. I haven't tried it out but that might be a pretty decent use of it.
The mek himself is cheap enough to not be too much of a tax if the vehicle breaks and that pistol is actually pretty scary now. Also, a relatively cheap way (29 points) to fill an elite slot if you need to do that
leopard wrote: Currently in the process of building a battle wagon, pretty modular but now having read the book the plan is roughly thus...
Bonebreaker, for the bonus attacks on the charge, contains a unit of nobz, various weapons including a few klaws.
this is in my Blood Axe army, idea is to pile forwards (and when I get the trike) advance then charge using the Ramming Speed ability, nobz stay inside.
following turn, Nobz dismount, use the Blood Axe ability to pull back, the nobz are now in an easy charge range and the wagon can ram again for the bonus again if desired (or just charge usually).
needs something else to go in with it, specifically to make sure there is space around the wagon occupied by Orks (stop the wagon being surrounded) - these support models move before the wagon unloads and backs off - a mob of boyz will be plenty (via Da Jump possibly, or if on the second turn more conventional tricks), could use bikes though to taste.
the wagon gets a mahoosive "kill me now" sign on it, but if its absorbing firepower its allowing something else to close up, keep the nobz not too expensive (i.e. not too many upgrades, their job is to unload at close range, a bit of shooting then charge, after that its charge then maybe fall back and charge again - a few combi-scorcha?).
its not too many points, the wagon gets only assault weapons so it can fire on its way in, but not too many since its pull back or shoot.
Don't think this is game winning but that wagon looks nasty up close D6+6 attacks, or more likely 2D6 when damaged hitting on a 2+ is going to make a mess
If you are building the official kit, it's pretty simple: Don't glue anything anywhere. Almost all parts of the battlewagon, including the 'ard case and deff rolla will hold in place without a single drop of glue. Glue a stack of washers or pennies under the grabbin' klaw, the lobba and the pintle mouunted shoota and you will be able to switch all gear except for the turret weapon at will. For the turret-mounted just use what you think looks best, magnetizing those is a pain in the rear and the difference between the three guns is minimal - someone who is not playing orks will not be able to tell a killkannon from a zzap gun.
As for the tactics - I'm planning on doing just that. Two bone breakers with 10 nobz and maybe a weird boy or banner each, another battlewagon with tank bustas, a unit of deff dreads on the tellyporta platform, 3x 20 boyz in hiding, dakkajets and burna bommers to clear chaff and a morkanaut to protect them all. A bull's eye on the wagon doesn't matter if the entire army consists of bull's eyes.
I think us getting to activate it before the knight swings back is for YMDC
"Use this strategem in the fight phase when it is your turn to select a unit to fight, or at the end of the Fight phase."
I can't imagine someone saying "well, it's your turn to select a unit to fight, but you can't use that rule that says to use it when it's your turn to select a unit to fight"
Actually, I can see people saying that...but wtf really? Do I get to select or don't I?
Hmm, yeah thats a good point. If your Skars are the ONLY unit in combat, do you get a chance to use the stratagem since you no longer have any eligible units to pick?
I'm going to say no on that, because "If one player runs out of eligible units, the other player completes all of their remaining fights, one unit after another."
So, to make sure your Skars get to fight uninterrupted, you need at least one other unit in melee.
Lets say the Skars are the only unit that charged, and you have 3 other combats going of 1 unit per side.
Step 1) Resolve Chargers. You charged with Skars, you resolve their attacks. Opponent has no chargers, obviously. Your opponent resolves his fights first ability units.
Step 2) It's your turn, you get to pick a unit to attack. Since by definition if there are ANY combats going you'll get to pick first, so you can use the stratagem to pick the Skars
The only wrench is if he has some unit with a fights first ability like Slaaneshi Daemons or something. Other than that if you've charged something it's your turn, so you get to resolve your chargers first, then you get to pick the first non-charging unit, even if you don't have any other combats.
Yep. The only defense is if someone interrupts, or if they have "always go first" rules.
Sorry about that, I realised I made a mistake and corrected myself. The line "If one player runs out of eligible units, the other player completes all of their remaining fights, one unit after another." is pretty cut and dry. If the Skars are the only unit you have within 1" and they charged, you don't have any eligible units after chargers are done, and the Knight gets to attack first. If you have at least one other unit within 1", you get to back to back your Skars.
Quick list, I think it makes the best use of the deep strike turn 2 stomping... I'll teleport the BW with gaz and friends, then either the lv 2 odd boy (jump/fist of gork) goes in as well or stays back to jump the boyz up turn 2, grots shield boyz if no turn1. Tank bustas looking to drive up throw 10 bombs, alongside warbikes looking for fooder lines to chew on and hopefully charge. Kommandos for more boyz on turn 2 jump, even if they don't make the improved charge I can use 3D6 on BW to make sure Deff-rolla does some work. Might need more wounds in the list not to lose everything to a good shooting list, but with -1 to hit on bikes and everything behind grots or T5 and up with 5++, nobs loot BW for 3+, I bet I could get the truck to wreck near the kommandos get them a +3 in cover. Or just bring 30 mob back when under 15 boyz... So Many choices.
- Ork List 2000 pts - 11 CP
- Spear-head Detachment - (Goffs) + 1 CP - HQ's -
- Gazzkull-Thraka - 235 pts
- Wired Boy - 62 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Battlewagon (Bonecrusher) - 140 pts - Deff rolla - 19 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Elite -
- Nobs x 9 - 126 pts - 9 BC's 45 pts
689 points
- Battalion Detachment - (Evil- sunz) + 5 CP - HQ's -
- Wartrike - 120 pts
- Big Mek on a warbike - 81 pts - KFF - 20 pts
- Big Mek - 55 pts - KFF 20 pts
- Troops -
- Grots x 10 - 30 pts
- Grots x 26 - 78 pts
- Boyz x 30 - 210 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Elites -
- Kommandos x 15 - 120 pts - Nob PK - 13 pts
- Tank Bustas x 10 - 170 pts - bomb squigs x 2 - 20 pts
- Fast Attack -
- Warbikers x 9 - 207 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Smasha Gun x 3 - 93 pts
- Transports -
- Truck - 59 pts - big shoota - 5 pts
1,311 points
KillerOfMany wrote: Quick list, I think it makes the best use of the deep strike turn 2 stomping... I'll teleport the BW with gaz and friends, then either the lv 2 odd boy (jump/fist of gork) goes in as well or stays back to jump the boyz up turn 2, grots shield boyz if no turn1. Tank bustas looking to drive up throw 10 bombs, alongside warbikes looking for fooder lines to chew on and hopefully charge. Kommandos for more boyz on turn 2 jump, even if they don't make the improved charge I can use 3D6 on BW to make sure Deff-rolla does some work. Might need more wounds in the list not to lose everything to a good shooting list, but with -1 to hit on bikes and everything behind grots or T5 and up with 5++, nobs loot BW for 3+, I bet I could get the truck to wreck near the kommandos get them a +3 in cover. Or just bring 30 mob back when under 15 boyz... So Many choices.
- Ork List 2000 pts - 11 CP
- Spear-head Detachment - (Goffs) + 1 CP - HQ's -
- Gazzkull-Thraka - 235 pts
- Wired Boy - 62 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Battlewagon (Bonecrusher) - 140 pts - Deff rolla - 19 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Smasha Gun x 1 - 31 pts
- Elite -
- Nobs x 9 - 126 pts - 9 BC's 45 pts
689 points
- Battalion Detachment - (Evil- sunz) + 5 CP - HQ's -
- Wartrike - 120 pts
- Big Mek on a warbike - 81 pts - KFF - 20 pts
- Big Mek - 55 pts - KFF 20 pts
- Troops -
- Grots x 10 - 30 pts
- Grots x 26 - 78 pts
- Boyz x 30 - 210 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Elites -
- Kommandos x 15 - 120 pts - Nob PK - 13 pts
- Tank Bustas x 10 - 170 pts - bomb squigs x 2 - 20 pts
- Fast Attack -
- Warbikers x 9 - 207 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Heavy Support -
- Smasha Gun x 3 - 93 pts
- Transports -
- Truck - 59 pts - big shoota - 5 pts
1,311 points
If you can squeeze in 3 grot units you can get 4 more command points. I think CP are going to be critical to orks doing knockout punches to things.
I think to be honest one of the few things that will be more common than seeing a Battalion of Grots with two cheap HQs will be seeing two such Battalions
leopard wrote: I think to be honest one of the few things that will be more common than seeing a Battalion of Grots with two cheap HQs will be seeing two such Battalions
Not to be a debbie downer but because of the removal of the normal Big Mek, assuming whatever you're doing doesn't allow the Index, you've got to pay 200 points for the first battalion and then 207 for the 2nd. If they allow the old Big Mek you pay 200 for the 2nd battalion.
Guard still outdo you by a significant margin with their 180 and 181 battalions (although if Infantry go up to 5PPM then they'll be more expensive for the 2nd battalion). Dedicating 20% of your points on Gretchin that die to a wet fart is going to hurt your ability to take killy things.
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KillerOfMany wrote: 24 CP for (120 grots and 3 wired boys and a.... war boss?) = 559 points
.... I need to buy more grots...
You need 6 HQs for 3 Batalions. The cheapest one you can take is 2 Big Meks with SAG and 3x10 Gretchin which is 200 points.
I don't think Lucky Stikk is that good on a Wartrike... it already rerolls wound rolls in melee innately and if you get the Brutal but Kunnin' trait you reroll hits as well (seems a pretty strong trait as well because it also gives +1D on your charge, which is GAKHUEG on a Dd3 weapon. Makes sure that every unsaved wound takes a sizeable chunk out of target vehicle/ monster/ TEQ/ Primaris. Then cast Fists of Gork for 7 S9 attacks that hit on 2+ rerollable and wound practically everything on a 3+ or better).
Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
leopard wrote: I think to be honest one of the few things that will be more common than seeing a Battalion of Grots with two cheap HQs will be seeing two such Battalions
Not to be a debbie downer but because of the removal of the normal Big Mek, assuming whatever you're doing doesn't allow the Index, you've got to pay 200 points for the first battalion and then 207 for the 2nd. If they allow the old Big Mek you pay 200 for the 2nd battalion.
Guard still outdo you by a significant margin with their 180 and 181 battalions (although if Infantry go up to 5PPM then they'll be more expensive for the 2nd battalion). Dedicating 20% of your points on Gretchin that die to a wet fart is going to hurt your ability to take killy things.
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KillerOfMany wrote: 24 CP for (120 grots and 3 wired boys and a.... war boss?) = 559 points
.... I need to buy more grots...
You need 6 HQs for 3 Batalions. The cheapest one you can take is 2 Big Meks with SAG and 3x10 Gretchin which is 200 points.
Guard may well manage to do this slightly cheaper, that wasn't my point, my point is orks can and can likely benefit from it.
Grots may die easily however:
- something still has to go and actually kill them, six units spread out will take time and effort to actually wipe out, its certainly doable, but thats points not shooting at the rest of my army for a couple of turns - and this is orks, win by T3 or lose is still likely
- a 3pt grot can claim an objective just as easily as a guardsman, and takes the same effort more or less to remove
- grots are tiny, they are likely one of the few units that can easily get out of LoS - grots are actually fun, they are not exactly combat monsters but if you need a 6 to wound anyway a grot blaster is still about as dangerous as other ork weapons, indeed more so as grots can actually hit.
- the 4x HQ are likely to be models you want anyway so are less of a tax (ditto the guard characters)
- there is more to the game than a dry consideration of points for who can generate CP the cheapest, there is also who can use them the best
- grots are green, thus they win over IG who are pink
- grots can be painted red and thus become the most awesome combat monster ever in the history of ever itself
- insert appropriate reason here
- you can use small units of grots to hide things behind, stick that in your Leman Russ and then drive over a grot with it
- ummm
- ahhhh
- continued page 64
redboi wrote: Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
Will be Blud Axe here with one, thinking you also want the "Ramming Speed" strat with it so unlikely to want more than one, maybe two ate the outside, but thats 20 points for 1d6 attacks that will likely hit and will likely hurt - just pick a suitable target, if it gets bogged down its a waste and the standard one is better - however for that sort of assault roll a smaller unit inside is actually better - a full mob of 20 is going to have trouble dismounting when in among the enemy, a smaller block of nobz (say ten + 2 runts) likely can dismount.
time will tell on the wagons if they are even worth it at all, not seeing the point of the gun wagon, largely due to the rubbish chance of actually hitting.
load out planned here:
Bonebreaker
- 4x big shoota
I'd put the stickbomb flinger on it but the model has them on the turret which I won't be using so I need to make a spare hatch and make a flinger to sit on it to sit on the rear mounting point.
Idea is everything is assault, a bit in ya face, trick will be what to run with it so that when it dies there are things benefitting from it - if this is the only target for anti tank its dead anyway
redboi wrote: Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
That's still 50+% extra A on average (6 to 9.5). Also, the mere threat of allowing it to charge again might make an opponent decide to not fall back in some situations (pretty niche probably, but might be key sometimes). Finally, how often do you actually fill up a Battlewagon completely? 20 spots is very expensive to fill up with anything but Boyz. 12 spots still allows you to get Thraka + 5 Meganobz or other dangerous loadouts in there. Sure, you might want to get 4 extra MANz in there but if there's one thing I've learned in my 40k adventures it's that overspecializing your army gets you nowhere. A normal Deffrolla Battlewagon + Thraka + 9 MANz will krump anything and everything in CC but has barely any option to deal with those Hellblasters hiding on top of some ruin, but because you've invested so much in your CC deffstar you now lack the points to invest in the required dakka to deal with other threats.
True, but a pair of grot Battalions is +10CP, and a heck of a lot cheaper than a Brigade - you still have the points for your main formation as well, and could probably make that a Brigade as well...
redboi wrote: Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
Hahaha.
Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.
That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.
On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.
How do we feel about killsaws on meganobz. 10 points for an extra attack and flat 2 damage instead of D3 doesnt seem too bad to me. Anyone else have thoughts?
Bad Moonz battalion: Boyz: Shootaz 30 Grot 10 Grot 10 Tankbustas 14 Battlewagon 1 Big Mek 1 (KFF) Weirdboy 1
So going first dramatically impacted games still, obviously. But yeah, first impressions:
1) Deepstriking boyz changes the way you think about support staff, Painboys are bad when they are stranded behind people getting jumped and deepstrikers. Painboys get less stock IMO especially considering their price increase. 2) Deffkilla Wartrikes are awesome, they are versatile and goddamn fast. Being able to 6" adv and ramming speed is just too much threat range. These guys are legit, their weapon options are super interesting too. I think they are best as death skulls. 3) Traktor Kannons are as brutal as everyone thinks, but only for the first turn or two. Once you kill the flyers they become meh. 6 is too many. 4) Badmoon shoota boyz with DDD5+ and shoot twice was not as good a screen killer as I had hoped. I'm evacuating from this 4CP strategy. 5) Weirdboyz are probably minimum 2, always bring da jump but also Fists of Gork. With our HQ threat range, fist of gork is solid, and as Jidmah says, casting it on the weirdboy himself makes him a monster. 6) I think to bring Nobz, you want them to be goffs instead of evil sunz. They are good, but not entirely that much better than boyz, and less durable. Nobz suffer from wanting to attack premium targets, but also being a perfect target for those premium guys to fight back. (e.g. characters with multi dmg weapons). 6) Generally, we are NOT more durable than before, evil sunz really doesn't increase the footslogging speed, you're simply not foot slogging anymore. It's trivial to get 90 boyz in their face turn 2. So what becomes more important is screen killers with shooting, so Dakka Jets (or similar) go up in stock IMO. 7) There is one exception to (6), Grot Shields. That is low key one of the best stratagem, if not the best, it rivals Unstoppable Green Tide. If 30 gretchin are not in front of your boyz you're doing it wrong. The 1 stratagem allows you to 2+ ANY of the grots so long as the squad is 3" away from the target. My opponent ended up just shooting gretchin first after the first game because they are easier to kill than boyz (which I'm also super happy about).
Keep in mind I'm still playing traditional green tide, and I'm actually bringing less on the board now than I used to. I found with my list that my threats were staggered too much and I was just losing a squad a turn without the impact I needed, running and slamming into screens took too long and I was not overwhelming them well enough.
Considering the above, I'm moving to this list for next weekend:
My durability in this list is just deepstrike and gretchin. The KFF is only for the mek gunz. 60 boyz for 4CP and 30 stormboyz for free. Turn 2 da jump the 30 remaining boyz and we are literally all charging. 4 HQ monsters will also be there as well, zhadsnark and the 3 wartrikes.
Wartrikes are pretty CP hungry, but they are targets for so many good ones. Billowing Smoke, Ramming Speed, Orks is Never Beaten, Snagga Grapple, and they can be Looted once they die. I find that once I hit hard with my boyz, all my footslogging HQ are simply left behind, but the Wartrikes can just traverse the whole table whenever they want. I want saturation of threats on turn 2, and the wartrikes do that. I think the deathskull 6++ and the rerolls take the wartrikes over the edge, suddenly I'm considering shooting the Cutta part of the Killjet, and I am expecting to reroll my single miss in melee.
Deffkilla wartrike is a pretty big disappointment to me. I wanted it to be more of a cc threat. I was holding out hopes for a relic that fixes it in the way that every castellan you've ever faced has the wrath of Caul relic plasmagun. If it could take Da Killa Klaw it would be good.
I'm also bummed that the Morkanaut still has 2 fewer attacks than the Gorkanaut.
The mekboy workshop is garbage.
What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems
ETA:. Interesting that I got ninjad by a post singing the praises of the Deffkilla. I haven't run it in games yet, so I defer to experience on that.
redboi wrote: Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
Hahaha.
Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.
That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.
On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.
tag8833 wrote: Deffkilla wartrike is a pretty big disappointment to me. I wanted it to be more of a cc threat. I was holding out hopes for a relic that fixes it in the way that every castellan you've ever faced has the wrath of Caul relic plasmagun. If it could take Da Killa Klaw it would be good.
I'm also bummed that the Morkanaut still has 2 fewer attacks than the Gorkanaut.
The mekboy workshop is garbage.
What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems
ETA:. Interesting that I got ninjad by a post singing the praises of the Deffkilla. I haven't run it in games yet, so I defer to experience on that.
Yeah man the reroll wound is pretty good in melee, but to be honest he doesn't hit as hard as a normal warboss, so you're right as well. I like how versatile of a unit he is however, he's just faster, more durable, better guns, massive threat range, and can smite on the charge.
redboi wrote: Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
Hahaha.
Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.
That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.
On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.
redboi wrote: Not sure how I feel about the bonebreaker. A whopping 20 points more than a normal BW and lower capacity, in exchange for d6 attacks only on the charge. Feel like you really need to run it with blood axes to get use out of it
Hahaha.
Do you have any idea. That thing is a bloodbath on the charge, doesn't matter what clan.
That's 9 and a half attacks, hitting on 2s AP2 dmg 2 at S9.
On average, that's 4 dead primaris Marines each round of combat.
Doesnt it hit on 5s?
It hits on 2s with the deffrolla.
Oh god damnit. For some reason when I read 3 to hit rolls I read 3 "hits" instead.
What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems
Thas funny. I would have though the lootas was the singly least improved unit in the codex. I mean, yes, you can boost them by spending CP's, but you could do so with any other ork unit, like tankbustas or smasha gunz, which are far better.
Billagio wrote: How do we feel about killsaws on meganobz. 10 points for an extra attack and flat 2 damage instead of D3 doesnt seem too bad to me. Anyone else have thoughts?
It's 8 because their Kustom Shoota also costs 2 points Anyway, seems worth it to me, reliable 2 damage is a biggie in my book and you get bumped up to 4A and AP-4 as well (meaning that many 3+ save vehicles won't get a save anymore). 43 points doesn't seem too bad to me. Put them in the Tellyporta (tossing them in a Bonebreaka to teleport as a single package optional. Actually, 4 MANz + Bonebreaka in a Tellyporta sounds like a sweet deal for slightly under 350 pts), deepstrike them next to the nearest metal bawks that needs opening and have fun. Klan should probably be Evil Sunz for the 8" charge.
GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.
"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.
So...
40 skarboyz attack because they charged.
Then other charges go.
Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.
So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so
480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.
Before the knight gets to swing back.
Or should I say..."What Knight??"
I mean you're spending 6CP to do that, so it's not that impressive.
6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with
What do you guys think is the most improved unit in the codex? I'm thinking lootas. Maybe Gorkanaut, Deff Dread, Manz, or Deffkoptas, but lootas got grot Shields and more dakka, which are 2 strats that essentially fix their problems
Thas funny. I would have though the lootas was the singly least improved unit in the codex. I mean, yes, you can boost them by spending CP's, but you could do so with any other ork unit, like tankbustas or smasha gunz, which are far better.
smasha Guns can't benefit because they have the Gretchen keyword. Tankbustas can benefit, but benefit less because they have assault weapons, and only have 24" range, so they are a midfield unit that is harder to shield, and typically is going to ride a transport.
Painboy is probably least improved. Lost killsaw, urty syringe got worse, other ways to get a 6+ fnp, only one strat that benefits them, and it's extremely situational, and for all of they they went up in points.
GET STUCK IN allows you to fight a second time, and can be activated when you choose a unit to fight.
"When you choose" occurs after all charges...but if it is your turn, you get to choose first.
So...
40 skarboyz attack because they charged.
Then other charges go.
Then you chooose to activate the scarboyz again...BEFORE THE KNIGHT GETS TO SWING BACK.
So all "80" boyz get their 4 attacks before the knight swings back. if under warpath, and Gazzy is near, they get 6 each...so
480 STRENGTH 5 ATTACKS with exploding 6s...yielding 178 WOUNDS.
Before the knight gets to swing back.
Or should I say..."What Knight??"
I mean you're spending 6CP to do that, so it's not that impressive.
6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with
Also, if you multicharge, you can distribute those 178 wounds to multiple things. 178 wounds goes a long, long, LONG way.
tag8833 wrote: Painboy is probably least improved. Lost killsaw, urty syringe got worse, other ways to get a 6+ fnp, only one strat that benefits them, and it's extremely situational, and for all of they they went up in points.
'urty syringe went from being strictly worse than attacking with the PK you had to take anyways to granting an additional attack. I'd say this is a net gain, even if it's tiny.
The least improved model would be the mini-mek. He went from being useless to being useless and locked into the worst weapon option he could choose from before.
The medi-squig is cute if you have Grotznik use it on himself, or if you want to heal a character that's almost dead for 2d3 (Thrakka/Wartrike/Warboss).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
davou wrote: 6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with
100% agree. Especially in the context of the smash-captain being nerfed because he could one-shot anything for 7CP...
davou wrote: 6cp to nuke a 4th or third of someones army is pretty damn good value, especially considering you still have the rest of your armies actions in across three phases to do other things with
100% agree. Especially in the context of the smash-captain being nerfed because he could one-shot anything for 7CP...
It is not even 6 CP, is it?. 1 CP to mob up to 40, 1 CP to skarboyz, 3 CP to double fight. You can jump them in on turn 1.
You can do it with Evil Sunz Nobz as well. 1 CP to mob up to twenty. Jump in. Make the charge (considerably easier with the +1) , and wreck whatever he has. If you give the Nobz dual choppas and sprinkle in a few klaws and big choppas, then they will wreck face, no matter what thery are charging. You might even not need to fight twice.
In fact, with Da Jump, the Evil Sunz trait, and the new buffed charge reroll, then Orks probably have one of the nastiest turn one bombs in the game. We had that as well before the codex, but it was handicapped by being essentially 50/50 chance of making the charge.
A variation could be to use Death Skullz nobz and use their anti-vehicle stratagem.
The problem with the mek shop is that a D6 averages 3.5, so getting max shots for 1 turn is always (slightly) less than shooting random shots for 2 turns.
Pandabeer wrote: I don't think Lucky Stikk is that good on a Wartrike... it already rerolls wound rolls in melee innately and if you get the Brutal but Kunnin' trait you reroll hits as well (seems a pretty strong trait as well because it also gives +1D on your charge, which is GAKHUEG on a Dd3 weapon. Makes sure that every unsaved wound takes a sizeable chunk out of target vehicle/ monster/ TEQ/ Primaris. Then cast Fists of Gork for 7 S9 attacks that hit on 2+ rerollable and wound practically everything on a 3+ or better).
My book doesn’t arrive till Monday is the Wartrike a bike or vehicle? (Mainly wondering about painboy on bike)
I agree with you if you take a relic take super cybork onthe trike and brutal but kunnin trait.
The lukky stick is made for the painboy on bike to make his klaw actually decent.
That’s my go to list right now.
Painboy on bike w lukky stikk
Wartrike w kunnin but brutal (warlord)
Zhardsnark
Warboss w relic klaw
Any of those 4 will cause damage and provide plenty of aura buffs for your Boyz.
The Megatrakk scrapjets are 110 points and i can see ork players taking them. I was thinking that teleporting 3 deffdreads with standard load out, 95pts each so 285 points, they hit on 3's and deal some good dmg in cc, shootas for chaff, Bad moonz obvisouly. Then i debated the Gorkanaught instead because hes 18 attacks but then i hate putting all my eggs in one basket, then i looked at the scrapjets and for 15 more points they deliver accurate antitank, they have more shootas and they each deal d3 mortal wounds to any enemy unit with 1" so i can see squads of 3 of these taken with the new Wartrakk warboss for quarenteed assaults, plus the anti tank guns are assault so you can still adfvanced and charge, i personally thing a CC bomb of
1 wartrakk boss
2 deffrolla battlewagons
3 scrap jets
this looks really scary to me on papper its fast and hits hard, very hard. I think a detachment of that in evil sunz supported by air wing of 3 dakkajets in badmoonz is really scary, 54 strength 6 -1 ap shots exploding 6's rerolling 1's, thats a lot of dead infantry.
ive been looking at this book for like 12 hours and frankly its hard to know if you should go with a brigade of deathskulz, or two detachments every ork player is looking at evil sunz battalion and a shooty bad moonz imo, but how many times do you spend 1 cp for a re roll dmg die, i know i do a lot and this ork klan gives you 3 re rolls per unit every damn turn, that honestly really adds up fast, i think if you dont run a brigade of deathskulz you should run your 90 boyz mob with the big mek and weirdboy as evil sunz with the above cc mek bomb with the dakkajet moonz idea.
however i still like the idea of a 2k army being around 1000 points for teleport and 1000 up the board, teleporting a Morkanaut with 3 deffdreads and 6 killakans all stock is scary af for your opponent, a mek list would look like this i think, walker bomb + dakkajet + trike, rollas, scrap jets,
Vermine wrote: Hey Guys, Can you purposefully Crash a Burna Bomber for that sweet 6'' 3 Mortal Wounds ?
(Lets say by finishing its course on a unit)
Nope. It's more like a defense mechanism. Park the bommer near the core of the enemy army and keep pointing out how many mortal wounds it will deal when destroyed and how you can re-roll that 4+ with CP to make sure it explodes. Re-rollable 2++ is nothing compared to that
Automatically Appended Next Post: Random thoughts: You can have quad-KMB dread for 91 points now.
So I am thinking, Turn 1 Make a 40 unit of GOFF Skarboyz, Warpath then then Da Jump them. Support them with Trikes and Dragstas to try and soak overwatch. Gamble on the new sweet cherry picking re-roll to mash up something, multi charging everything to abuse the extra 9" movement for fighting again, with (assuming 30 live) 150 exploding attacks, then fight again.
Turn 2 Tellyporta some RED SUNZ Double Choppa Nobz in, Da Jump the Warpath Weirdboy, Warpath the Nobz, Charge with that delicious +1 to the charge, Fight Again, everything dies.
Pandabeer wrote: I don't think Lucky Stikk is that good on a Wartrike... it already rerolls wound rolls in melee innately and if you get the Brutal but Kunnin' trait you reroll hits as well (seems a pretty strong trait as well because it also gives +1D on your charge, which is GAKHUEG on a Dd3 weapon. Makes sure that every unsaved wound takes a sizeable chunk out of target vehicle/ monster/ TEQ/ Primaris. Then cast Fists of Gork for 7 S9 attacks that hit on 2+ rerollable and wound practically everything on a 3+ or better).
My book doesn’t arrive till Monday is the Wartrike a bike or vehicle? (Mainly wondering about painboy on bike)
I agree with you if you take a relic take super cybork onthe trike and brutal but kunnin trait.
The lukky stick is made for the painboy on bike to make his klaw actually decent.
That’s my go to list right now.
Painboy on bike w lukky stikk
Wartrike w kunnin but brutal (warlord)
Zhardsnark
Warboss w relic klaw
Any of those 4 will cause damage and provide plenty of aura buffs for your Boyz.
Picked up my codex today, looking through it, it for sure has its ups and downs. I want too happy with the loss of big Meks with kff (I don’t want to run him as a normal mek, maybe convert a Sag) but anyhow I am happy with kultures and stratagems. A big thing on my mind right now though is Walkers. From the killa kan to the stompa, anyone cook up some ideas for them? How are you feeling stompas may fair now that the codex is out?
Also a random thought is I feel storm boys and zag got a nice improvement with the deep strike. I haven’t compared point but if they are roughly the same my zag will be coming back out in force!
I'm looking at getting my brother a gift to bring him back into actively playing the game. He's quite fond of Burnas, and has a slew of Burna Boyz. Do you think that a Battlewagon with Deffrolla (maybe some other guns?), kept open-topped and rolling around with fire pouring out of it while it smashes into things is a viable option? Probably with a Force Field Mek riding with them for some more durability.
Thoughts?
BaconCatBug wrote: So I am thinking, Turn 1 Make a 40 unit of GOFF Skarboyz, Warpath then then Da Jump them. Support them with Trikes and Dragstas to try and soak overwatch. Gamble on the new sweet cherry picking re-roll to mash up something, multi charging everything to abuse the extra 9" movement for fighting again, with (assuming 30 live) 150 exploding attacks, then fight again.
Turn 2 Tellyporta some RED SUNZ Double Choppa Nobz in, Da Jump the Warpath Weirdboy, Warpath the Nobz, Charge with that delicious +1 to the charge, Fight Again, everything dies.
This is not a bad assault plan I think. I think Ramming speed is also nice enough to get a walker or three stuck in turn two
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote: I'm looking at getting my brother a gift to bring him back into actively playing the game. He's quite fond of Burnas, and has a slew of Burna Boyz. Do you think that a Battlewagon with Deffrolla (maybe some other guns?), kept open-topped and rolling around with fire pouring out of it while it smashes into things is a viable option? Probably with a Force Field Mek riding with them for some more durability.
Thoughts?
The burna wagon is definitely a threat now with cheap burnas. Two burna Truks might be more so. Burnas are still d3 hits, though, so it won't completely erase screens but it will dent them if they can reach the lines.
Not super enthused about the dex. I think the kulturs are really fun and cool and dakka dakka dakka (D!3) USR is nice. Lots more mortal wounds (kinda). The Grenade Strategem will be amazing on tankbustas for sure scary good. My Lootas may see some Bad Moon table time now. Best surprise was the Traktor Kannon. Worst was the the Stompa's price tag didn't get cut in half. I mean, 450 pts still may be too much. Lastly, I played Rick and Morty +5 DPs last night. No way can this dex compete with DG or Tzeentchy TSons. Destined for mid to low tier. 18 Traktor Kannons can't kill a fully buffed Maggie.
Billagio wrote: Does anyone know when the official BS file will be up for the codex
When it's done.
Wow thanks
Anyways, im excited to try a deepstrike list with tellyporta. Anyone try it out yet? Im thinking of a Gorkanaut and a squad of MANz with saws, or deff dreads
Got a 2v2 tournament coming up in a few month's. Thinking about this:
PLAYER 1: SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ: Mega big Mek with KFF HS: Battle wagon (4 big shoota's)
HS: Battle wagon (4 big shoota's)
HS: 15 loota's
HS: 9 loota's
HS: 6 x smasha mek guns
PLAYER 2: SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ: Mega big Mek with KFF HS: Battle wagon (4 big shoota's)
HS: 6 x smasha mek guns
HS: 6 x tractor mek guns
EL: 14 tankbusta's + 4 squig bombs
Tactics:
- Loota's and tankbusta's go inside the battle wagons,
- One big mek can supercharge it's KFF and then each and every unit got a 5+ inv save,
Got the option to just simply shoot with everything for a few turns or play the battle wagons aggressively. Not a lot of CP but damn, the mek guns kill stuff..
My wartrike is deff skulls with the might is right warlord trait and the da fixer upper, giving him 6 s8 attacks healing healing d3 wounds a turn a 6+ invun,
Da plan is to buff him with fist of gork making him s10 and 8 attacks then buffing with warpath for another attack, so hes at 9 s10 attacks with shred and the lucky blue gitz kulture, charge him forward with some deff coppters (who each do 2d3 attacks) use his speed waagh and charge turn one needing a 4" charge (if 24" apart) rerollable and crump some heads.
Looking at it i'll put the warpath on the koppters instead giving them each 3d3 attacks...........
Skullhammer wrote: My wartrike is deff skulls with the might is right warlord trait and the da fixer upper, giving him 6 s8 attacks healing healing d3 wounds a turn a 6+ invun,
Da plan is to buff him with fist of gork making him s10 and 8 attacks then buffing with warpath for another attack, so hes at 9 s10 attacks with shred and the lucky blue gitz kulture, charge him forward with some deff coppters (who each do 2d3 attacks) use his speed waagh and charge turn one needing a 4" charge (if 24" apart) rerollable and crump some heads.
Looking at it i'll put the warpath on the koppters instead giving them each 3d3 attacks...........
Bolded for emphasis. I did NOT think of that, absolutely genius. Wartrikes just keep on getting better.
Soo... Nobz have the option to "replace their choppa and slugga with items from the Nob weapon list". The Nob weapon list has the Killsaw as an option. Does this mean that dual Killsaw Nobz are a legit option now? If yes, what is the chance that this is gonna get FAQ'ed? I kinda wanna try Evil Sunz dual Killsaw Nob Bikers that can charge T1
doktor_g wrote: Not super enthused about the dex. I think the kulturs are really fun and cool and dakka dakka dakka (D!3) USR is nice. Lots more mortal wounds (kinda). The Grenade Strategem will be amazing on tankbustas for sure scary good. My Lootas may see some Bad Moon table time now. Best surprise was the Traktor Kannon. Worst was the the Stompa's price tag didn't get cut in half. I mean, 450 pts still may be too much. Lastly, I played Rick and Morty +5 DPs last night. No way can this dex compete with DG or Tzeentchy TSons. Destined for mid to low tier. 18 Traktor Kannons can't kill a fully buffed Maggie.
Stompa for 450 points would be ridiculous, it's significantly more powerful than a Knight Errant (most direct comparison). The 900+ points it costs now is too much for sure though, I think a fair price tag would be around the 650-700 points including wargear mark. Still, I wonder if a properly supported Stompa (Big Mek w/ KFF + Fixer Upperz, maybe on a bike?) can't be made worth it's current pricetag.
Skullhammer wrote: My wartrike is deff skulls with the might is right warlord trait and the da fixer upper, giving him 6 s8 attacks healing healing d3 wounds a turn a 6+ invun,
Da plan is to buff him with fist of gork making him s10 and 8 attacks then buffing with warpath for another attack, so hes at 9 s10 attacks with shred and the lucky blue gitz kulture, charge him forward with some deff coppters (who each do 2d3 attacks) use his speed waagh and charge turn one needing a 4" charge (if 24" apart) rerollable and crump some heads.
Looking at it i'll put the warpath on the koppters instead giving them each 3d3 attacks...........
That's a decent warboss there, it might be worth giving him the supa cyborg body instead for the 5+++. As a rule I wouldn't warpath for just 1 extra attack, it's much better on units with lots of models.
I think I'm more likely to go the bike boss with klaw route myself, I'm also favouring drathskulls... But 8" da jump charges is hard to give up!
People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.
Many just like to complain for the sake of it, you have a brand new dex, with some of the best internal balance shown in a codex, options galore, you can run any form of list and still do well.
Playtest the book first and get some games under your belts before going doom and gloom
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.
Many just like to complain for the sake of it, you have a brand new dex, with some of the best internal balance shown in a codex, options galore, you can run any form of list and still do well.
Playtest the book first and get some games under your belts before going doom and gloom
Maybe some people are simply still too stuck in their "only Green Tide is viable" mindset. I'm not sure where exactly it'll land but it's certainly not bottom tier. And yes, while I do like the codex (lot of options, lots of units and several builds look like they're quite viable) there's also some pretty dumb gak in there:
- multiple solid HQ options removed because of the "no model no rules" bullgak. If you're going to enforce that kind of stuff at least give us the kits to make a Warboss in mega armor and Warbike (Warboss/ Painboy/ Big Mek) HQsGW! Yes I know, "use Index" but with nearly all factions having their own codex now one can wonder how long (or short) before the Indexes are phased out completely and thus making those options fully illegal.
- Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy and Stompa points costs are ridiculous. Squigbuggy should be at the 100-120 points mark like the rest of them, Stompa should go to 650-700 including wargear.
And another thing people are rightfully angry about is that they might have to rebase their entire Boyz collection to 32mm. At this point what might have been best is include different point costs for different base sizes to offset the advantage instead of forcing people to rebase 200+ Boyz (7 points for 32mm, 8 points for 25mm or something).
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.
Gotta shill for the latest release or they won't be getting review copies early any more, let alone playtest info months ahead. Prep time is a big deal for tourney tryhards
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.
Gotta shill for the latest release or they won't be getting review copies early any more, let alone playtest info months ahead. Prep time is a big deal for tourney tryhards
Not sure I agree here, I have seen plenty of review videos where they have received content early and have given either bad reviews or had plenty of negatives
Having said that I Agree that its a shame some models have been axed, though I am the type to always believe whatever rules the codex makes you follow, my self will be taking the big mek in mega armour who overall is not a bad option at all considering the KFF etc
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.
Many just like to complain for the sake of it, you have a brand new dex, with some of the best internal balance shown in a codex, options galore, you can run any form of list and still do well.
Playtest the book first and get some games under your belts before going doom and gloom
dont come to this thread if your just going to complain about complaining (this has been talked to death in other threads). add to the tactics discussion or get out.
so you think new codex is going to be great? give good reasons besides "other people said so", especially if your going to bring up frontline gaming after the reece stompa fiasco.
keep this a tactics thread please.
It won’t last past the faq; but enjoy those 2++ Meganobz while you can, Boyz. Wouldn’t try it in casual tables (they’ll just hit you instead of hitting the nobz), but in a tournament, well... RAW is RAW. . .
had a 2000 pt game 1st game with the new codex vrs non competitive tau
the lists
Spoiler:
my list =battalion bloodaxe grots x10x3 wierboy warpath MAbigmek,kff,dathinkin kap,bloodaxe warlord trait,breakin heads warlord trait ( reserved for turn 2 ded sneeky) x3kmk x3smasha guns x3traktor kannons =speerhead evilsunze defdredds x3x2 (reserved for turn 2 telyport) gorkanaut (reserved for turn 2 telyport) meganobz x10 (deployed on board for turn 2 da jump, to make sure i dint have more then half my army in resevre) wierboy dajump =10cp
tau list riptide with burst cannon longstrike hammerhead stealthsuits x3x4 (he mad e a mistake and brought more than 3 squads...i let it slide as long as he allowed me to engage walkers in combat in the 2nd lvl of ruins lol.) devilfish with breacher sqaud firewarriors x5x3 some drones ghostkeel some kroot some pathfinders
played openwar, had to end early after turn 3, it was not clear as to who would win the battle if it continued.
only made 3 charges for defdredds for my big turn 2 drop, but had combat with everything turn 3.
ramming speed was great to guarantee charge for gorkanaut (didn't get 2nd turn charge becasue i was stupid and shot and killed his charge target),the defstorm shoota was surprisingly killy against infantry squads hiding in ruins
even without index krew shenanigans the mekguns are fairly survivable solely due to being separate squads with alot of wounds
evilsunz is the best way to charge after deepstrike, also helped meganobz close distance after they failed their 1st charge, definitely helped make their 2nd charge
bigmek didn't perform well becasue his kff wasn't needed to protect the meganobz and the gorkanaut (would be more useful if my opponent had more anti armor besides what i hadn't quickly destroyed from mek gun shooting). also was bad idea to have both the bloodaxe warlord trait and also my warlord in reserves (ability to recycle cp doesn't work until after he deployed, wont make that mistake again)
having the 3 types of mekgunz made my shooting very flexible but powerful, i had a better alpha strike then the tau did. i would suggest a good balance of these 3 mekguns if your unsure who your opponent will be. also, weird thing, any masive shhoting from mekguns into tau forced the tau player to charge my gunz. DDD on a kmk killed one of his commanders in overwatch lol.
DDD was great for mekguns (got alot of extra hits) and still happened often with my evil sunz walkers the few times they shot.
defdreds did ok in melee. some were 2 base saws and shootas, and others with 4 claws/saws. with the effectiveness of extra 2 attacks i would upgraded the rest with more saws/claws next time. and they are cheap enough that when i inevitably lost some to shooting it didn't feel like a great lose. they were all over the table harassing the tau.
=mvps traktor kannons blew away the drones from ghostkeel (greatly decreasing its defense), ghostkeel would eventually be whittled down by smites and defdreedd melee, i didnt get a forced crash and burn yet, my target priority and awareness wasn't the best.
kmk left longstrike with 1 wound left after 1st turn shooting (long strike would die to shooting next turn), even with not many hits the damage alone seems to worth the new price. also killed the commander in overwatch.
smasha guns destroyed a riptide (didnt get a chance to overcharge shield). DDD realy hekped get those xtra shots and i rolled well the dmg and the to wound.
weirdboys near my mekguns are great for smiting any unit that would try to charge the guns to keep them from shooting.
=tau mvp darkstrider and breachers make some nasty close quarters shooting. be careful charging vehicles into these gitz
alot of stealthsuits were meddlesome and still hard to take care of, would've brought more traktors?
=product reviews i realy like the new ork dice. it was easy to tell what side was 1 and what was 6, also rolled fairly well all game except that turn i blew most of my charges,and they look proper looted
i also bought the mekshop but becasue i wanted more ork terrain. it comes with the same terrain as the speedfreeks box. after getting both speedfreaks and mekshop i had plenty of orky terrain to add to a thematic board.
edit i gues my opponent figured i would win the game if it continued, were were fighting over objectives at the center of the table that allowed you to win if you held them at the end of turn 5. the tau player figured i would eventually beat him off it with my meganobz/gorkanuat.
So maybe a bit of stupid question - but it seems you can't put 1 clan into another clans transport?
At the moment I'm trying to make a evil suns and deathskulls force work... essentially I want to maintain the ability to T1 jump 30 boyz with an 8" charge, but also get those lovely rerolls on everything else. The issue I'm facing is advance and charge auras... I can only really afford 2 warbosses in my list, and I'm thinking a biker boss, and the trike, now I really need them to be the same clan as everything they need to buff... hence the issue.
I'd be interested if anyone thinks they have a decent list with 2 bats of different clans.
geargutz wrote: bigmek didn't perform well becasue his kff wasn't needed to protect the meganobz and the gorkanaut (would be more useful if my opponent had more anti armor besides what i hadn't quickly destroyed from mek gun shooting). also was bad idea to have both the bloodaxe warlord trait and also my warlord in reserves (ability to recycle cp doesn't work until after he deployed, wont make that mistake again)
I also noticed this, I'm dropping painboys and yeah maybe even KFF since you're deep striking so much your defense is the deepstrike, not the KFF anymore, and the KFF doesn't even work becuase hes on foot in your deployment. Mek Gun defence is often just good enough being small 6 wound units.
geargutz wrote: having the 3 types of mekgunz made my shooting very flexible but powerful, i had a better alpha strike then the tau did. i would suggest a good balance of these 3 mekguns if your unsure who your opponent will be. also, weird thing, any masive shhoting from mekguns into tau forced the tau player to charge my gunz. DDD on a kmk killed one of his commanders in overwatch lol.
Unfortunately you cannot DDD Mek Gunz, they are comprised entirely of gretchin and are ineligible targets.
geargutz wrote: =mvps
traktor kannons blew away the drones from ghostkeel (greatly decreasing its defense), ghostkeel would eventually be whittled down by smites and defdreedd melee, i didnt get a forced crash and burn yet, my target priority and awareness wasn't the best.
kmk left longstrike with 1 wound left after 1st turn shooting (long strike would die to shooting next turn), even with not many hits the damage alone seems to worth the new price. also killed the commander in overwatch.
smasha guns destroyed a riptide (didnt get a chance to overcharge shield). DDD realy hekped get those xtra shots and i rolled well the dmg and the to wound.
weirdboys near my mekguns are great for smiting any unit that would try to charge the guns to keep them from shooting.
yeah the Tau list your vsing wasnt very tuned, needs more fire warriors at least. But I agree, I brought 6 Mek Gunz in my list this weekend and felt like my alpha strike with those 6 shots alone was a lot of pressure.
geargutz wrote: =tau mvp
darkstrider and breachers make some nasty close quarters shooting. be careful charging vehicles into these gitz
alot of stealthsuits were meddlesome and still hard to take care of, would've brought more traktors?
I feel like 4 traktors is enough, enough to kill an eldar flyer in 1 turn. But I'm having a hard time deciding. I'm going 4 traktor 4 smasha at the moment. Vs Tau I can see why you would want 100 traktor, they are pretty damn useless vs tyranids for example.
mrtomski wrote: So maybe a bit of stupid question - but it seems you can't put 1 clan into another clans transport?
At the moment I'm trying to make a evil suns and deathskulls force work... essentially I want to maintain the ability to T1 jump 30 boyz with an 8" charge, but also get those lovely rerolls on everything else. The issue I'm facing is advance and charge auras... I can only really afford 2 warbosses in my list, and I'm thinking a biker boss, and the trike, now I really need them to be the same clan as everything they need to buff... hence the issue.
I'd be interested if anyone thinks they have a decent list with 2 bats of different clans.
wartrike ability only works on "clan" bikers/vehicles. his buff will only benefit his own clan. ive had to reread all list entries and buffs when ive been making my lists. its possible to do mutable detachments with different clans but dont expect much shared buffs.
mrtomski wrote: So maybe a bit of stupid question - but it seems you can't put 1 clan into another clans transport?
At the moment I'm trying to make a evil suns and deathskulls force work... essentially I want to maintain the ability to T1 jump 30 boyz with an 8" charge, but also get those lovely rerolls on everything else. The issue I'm facing is advance and charge auras... I can only really afford 2 warbosses in my list, and I'm thinking a biker boss, and the trike, now I really need them to be the same clan as everything they need to buff... hence the issue.
I'd be interested if anyone thinks they have a decent list with 2 bats of different clans.
My list has three atm. Predominantly evil sunz green tide and mek gunz. 3x10 grots, weirdboy and big mek as blood axes, and three deffskull wartrikes.
Couldn't sleep so I tried to do math instead of counting sheep. Then I got stumped and had to break out the calculator. I 'think' these numbers are correct:
BadMoons with D!3 Shooting:
-Of the dice you initially pick up, I think you can count on 46% converting to hits after Rerolls and shot generation.
Goffs in melee with their kultur in effect:
-Of the dice you initially pick up, I think you can count on 77% converting to hits after hit generation.
This means that if 50 BadMoon shootas are popping off, after the dust settles you 'should' have 46 hits...
Same with 33 Goff Slugga Choppa Boyz. You should eventually be rolling 77 dice to wound.
Just the way I will think about it. Next I think I may need to cypher on If the Snakebites (or whichever get the invuln) with a painboy will eventually get more hits than goffs if they have to endure a round of being shot at.
Do tend to wonder if its worth waiting until the FAQ before assembling any models in anything other than an "obvious" way, to avoid the FAQ issues - given it should be a fortnight and it will take that long to play this through and can proxy a few oddball choices.
Still need to work out the impact on my lot but its changed enough its not a case of re-point my old list, this is a ground up re-write, and will involve a box of boyz and the spare tankbusta bomb arms I have laid about to get that modelled in.
happy the Big Shoota got cheaper, still not sure its worth 5 points but with DDD it may be worth a look
It won’t last past the faq; but enjoy those 2++ Meganobz while you can, Boyz. Wouldn’t try it in casual tables (they’ll just hit you instead of hitting the nobz), but in a tournament, well... RAW is RAW. . .
So this guy is saying Meganobz have the potential to get an invunerable 2up save?
Yeah, even if that is the case I would never play that stratagem, with that intention and if someone tried that against me tournament or not I would pack up all my stuff immediately and tell them to get f*cked. Also I’m pretty sure somewhere in the BRB it says something about players using their discretion with some interpretation of rules, or words to that effect.
On a separate note, do index options get the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule?
I presume they don’t. Also I really can’t tell if kanz and mek gunz get the Klan Kulture, does anyone else know?
leopard wrote: Wondering on grenades, we have the "one in ten may carry a tankbusta bomb" thing, usually only one model can lob a grenade - but the "morr stickbombs" thing allows up to ten.
guessing a mob of 30 boys that would mean three tankbusta and seven normal?
still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise
That's what I'm doing. I cannibalized all of mine for kitbashed tankbustas. As soon as i heard about boyz with meltabombs, I bought out all of them from WindowBox on ebay. Should have 14 in my mailbox today.
Invest in Instant mold and some green stuff. Will save time and money chasing down and buying bits. I have duplicated tons of deathwatch bits and shoulder pads as well as countless other hard to find or overpriced little odds and ends. How much did 14 tankbusta bombs set you back? Get this mold and next time you can copy any bit and not have to even search for it and the mold can be melted down and used again to make other bits.
leopard wrote: Do tend to wonder if its worth waiting until the FAQ before assembling any models in anything other than an "obvious" way, to avoid the FAQ issues - given it should be a fortnight and it will take that long to play this through and can proxy a few oddball choices.
Still need to work out the impact on my lot but its changed enough its not a case of re-point my old list, this is a ground up re-write, and will involve a box of boyz and the spare tankbusta bomb arms I have laid about to get that modelled in.
happy the Big Shoota got cheaper, still not sure its worth 5 points but with DDD it may be worth a look
Think it might be better to wait. I really want my 3 Biker Nobz to have dual Killsawz now and have found the bitz to create them from (2 seem to be legit killsaw bits in the Nobz kit, two Big Choppa heads that can work as a saw, and 2 DeffDread saws that are still on their sprues) but I don't want my invenshun to become illegal in two weeks.
Having had some time to look over it, I'm overall pretty pleased with this Codex. Seems like the points reductions should go some way towards solving the Index issue of it rarely being worthwhile to take any fun stuff in favour of ploughing that cost into yet more Boyz. Looking forward to trying out some more varied lists without feeling like I'm totally mugging myself off.
Still a bit sore about the MA Warboss and regular Big Mek getting booted, but I guess there's always the Index for now.
Feels like I could do a little Batrep of how my game went yesterday. Picked up the codex early that day and very quickly sat with a calculator making a list.
I wanted to test out the tellyporta strike on a dread mob but all my kanz were in da shop gettin dismanteled and bein made all shiny like so not a true dread mob happened.
It was:
Spoiler:
Main Force: Freebooterz
Battalion(5CP):
HQ:
Big mek Lucky Bitz on his bike with KFF, courtesy of the index and my refusal to let go of my warlord for yonks. - WL trait: Killa Reputation
Wigglygob da Warp'ead: Powers: Warpath + Da Krunch
Troops:
Grots X10
Grots X10
Grots X10
Elites:
Ol' Krumpsta - Runtherd
Raifkuttaz' SkullBustaz - 5 nobs with kombi skorchas + big choppas
Tankbustas X10
Heavy support:
Sandy - Gorkanaut
Tinead gitz - 3x Deff Dreadz with various weapons, based on how I modeled them. one had 3 sawz and a skorcha, one had 2 klawz, a saw, and a rokkit launcha, and the last one had 2 klaws and 2 KMBs
Da skurvy squigeaters - 3 mek gunz, all traktor kannons.
Dedicated transport:
1 Trukk - "Da Skallywaggun" with a wrecking anchor and a big shoota (had to take off my rokkit )
2nd Force: Blood Axes
Battalion (5cp):
HQ:
Raifkutta - Warboss, Relic: Da finkin' Kap; giving him a warlord trait, which, in turn was "I've got a plan, ladz!"
Jumpa - Weirdboy Power: Da jump (Fun fact, both warpath and Da jump affect "friendly ORK units/infantry" so they aren't locked to a clan.
Troops:
29x ARD BOYZ 3X Tankbusta bombz 1X nob with BC
9x shootaboyz (and nob)
10 grotz (my plan was to just hide these guys close to a point, because I sure as Mork am not paying for another runtherd, being the piratey git I am.
Dedicated Transport:
Trukk (unnamed) w/ big shoota
I was playing against Tau with 3 squads of drones around a Riptide. An ethereal, two Cadre fireblades, a commander in crisis battlesuit, a commander in coldstar battlesuit. a sun-shark bomber, a bunch of msu fire warriors, a bunch of msu pathfinders, 2 squads of stealth suits, 2 firesight marksmen all split up between a Brigade and a Battalion. He was playing Tau Sept and another one that allows one re-roll per squad and +1 leadership.
The mission was contact lost, the map: Hammer and Anvil. I got to choose sides so I took one with a nice terrain feature at the very back, deployed my ardboyz behind it with Jumpa and Wigglygob. three squads of grots in the front with Ol' Krumpsta behind them. Luckybitz was there too with his kff protecting Da Skallywagun and "Accidentally" missing the other trukk, which ALSO happened to be in range of his Riptide (Oohhh nooo) and just close enough to me 'ard boyz.
I deployed my gorkanaut (with nobs) and my Dreads in DeepStrike with Tellyporta Strike.
He had a huge amount of drops with all the MSU, so I got +1 to the roll and won first turn. On which I did nothing. My traktor kannonz shot at the Riptide because the sun-shark was out of range and met drones and 3+ invuln... as usual. Gitz don't even call dere big dredz "vehiclez", and don't even explode! shoddy kraftmanshipp that is!
Also used big shooters to whittle down a couple pathfinder units for next turn.
I also re-positioned some of my units, grots to objectives, tankbustas out of sight, and most importantly, the sacrifice trukk.
His first turn the sun shark moved up, dropped a bomb on my ardboyz, (only killing 4) and killed a traktor cannon for first blood. I then coaxed him to shoot down my trukk and IMMEDIATELY looted it. 3+ armor save boyz, bay-bey. 2 shoota boyz died jumping out but Raifkutta was fine.I realise now I could have also looted the mek gun, but it wasn't placed close enough. It IS a vehicle...
My second turn I moved up the tankbustas near to the center of the field with Lucky, The shoota boyz on foot moved up with Raifkutta, and then *BZZZZAP* here comes Sandy and the Tinead gitz, as close to the Riptide as possible. In the Psychic phase, Wiggly cast warpath on the ardboyz and smite on the sun shark, dealing 5 mortal wounds and three to himself . then Jumpa did Gorks' Work and sent those gits flying through the warp and right next to Sandy, also taking a mortal wound doing it.
Shooting phase! The skurvy squigs ripped the Sun-shark out of the sky, whooping and hollering at the explosion. (Units composed ENTIRELY of gretchin don't get klan traits, and I'm not sure if Mek gunz fits that definition, but regardless I didn't use it to trigger Compettitive Streak. Looking at it now, I could have, but I had prepared for this.
I then used the Freebooterz specific strat "KILL KROOZER BROADSIDE" to even further soften up some units, that were all bunched up. It worked well for this game, but I would advise against using it every game. Regardless, some pathfinders and fire warriors were reduced to 1-2 models left.
I then small arms fired at them with the Freebooterz that could, and Lucky combined with Da Skallywagun's Big shoota managed to finish a unit of pathfinders. 24" range is longer than you think, and suddenly Sandy unleashed a salvo of str6 shots hitting on a 4+ that decimated a unit of drones, and a flurry of big shoota shots that gravely hurt another. the rokkits whiffed, though. Then the Kaneads got some good damage in with their +1, and the boys... tried, I guess.
In the charge phase, enough drones had been killed to only leave one row in front of the Riptide, and Sandy lead the charge into both, taking 4 dmg along the way to non-fire warrior greater good, and getting 12" from 3d6 ramming speed with ere-we-go re-rolls, allowing her to shamble around the remaining unit of drones and deal some mortal wounds.
One of the kaneads made it into a squad of pathfinders, and the boyz announced a charge on the front drones and the Riptide and made it to the drones, losing 2 more to fire warrior greater good.
other charges were made with the Skallywagun (with tankbustas) and Lucky into some stealth suits.
The Kanead tore through the pathfinders with his saws, triggering competitive streak on Sandy, who then, after the boyz took out those pesky drones and piled in, tore into the Riptide on 2+ to hit, leaving it with 3 wounds left, The boyz then piled in, and finished it off.
My opponent then conceded.
Conclusion - Teleporting nauts is super great! and fixes the slog across the battlefield problem of dread mobs. BUT turn 2 and needing half your points on the battlefield means not everything should do it. expensive too. Raifkutta with his finkin cap generated warlord trait really helped keep some CP for shenanegans, though I'm more of a bad moonz/ Freebooterz fan. The freebooterz trait is super fun because you haff to use tak tiks but its worded weirdly so I can't really tell if it stacks or not, I played it as though it doesn't, though. Shame he RQ'd, I would've liked to see more of that game.
*edit* I messed up with the spoiler, sorry for an unwanted wall of text
Wartrike seems to get crazy mean with any kulture i swear..
Since i have Bad Moonz orks im playing a more shooty list but not discounting melee, just not spamming pure melee guys.
I just noticed you can give the Deffkilla the Bad Moonz warlord trait to give it a 4++ and Supa Cybork Body for a 5+++ lol...
Would you say the wait was worthy ? I have an ork opponent, he stopped playing some time ago because of Real Life but I might get him the ork codex to get him back to The Hobby. Orks vs Space Marines would be balanced ?
Might be obvious to some if not most but you can actually use Mek Guns' Grot crew as wound markers... Just remove a model for each wound and you don't have to bother with dice markers.
Weazel wrote: Might be obvious to some if not most but you can actually use Mek Guns' Grot crew as wound markers... Just remove a model for each wound and you don't have to bother with dice markers.
So boys are still awesome but my god I am sick of moving hundreds of them. Need a brigade for all those tasty cps we actually have a use for now.
Troop load out thinking 30 Boyz, 10 boyz, 10 grotz, 10 grotz, 10 grotz, 10 grotz.
Gives me 40 boyz to da jump turn 1 and plenty of grotz to meat shield if I don’t get first turn.
Does this seem like a sensible start before I start sprinkling in the fun stuff?
Deffdread confusion. Can we use the CCW and the saw in melee or are those of us with three CCWs and a skorcha ripping an arm off? I am sure I am missing something.. right?
i've tried to fill a brigade a few times and every time i break 2k points, or i have like 0 boyz and just 60 grots for troops.
Which while an interesting idea to go solid mech.....probably not a wise idea.
Deffdread comment: It says nothing about not being able to mix saws and klaws as the replacement is one gun/klaw at a time, not all of them. The wording on the extra attacks means you have to keep track of them, since you generate an additional attack with that saw/klaw. Im on the fence if i like klaws or saws more. S9 vs S10, AP-2 vs AP-3, 2D vs 3D, but 5pts less (15pts across all 3 arms). Thats 45pts in a squad of 3 im saving, and quite frankly Saws are still quite deadly.
Brigades got a lot harder since I found out Minimeks can't take gun upgrades for cheap but useful Elites in Deffskull MSU. Will probably switch to 2 Battalions.
I am still on the fence about evil sunz and the deciding factor to me may be turns to close combat versus survivability of the unit at the new rate cost for a boyz mob.
I am afraid that teleporting a deathmob and hoping for turn 1 combat with strat spam is not my style.
Was thinkin of a foot list useing mobs of grots out front and the 1 cp strat of grot shields to protect my mega nobs (yes i know trucks/wagons are better but i dont have any) from damage with a runt herd with squig hound to help pass the inevitable moral tests could also run them out front of boyz or any other infantry unit.
Any thoughts about going first and "Prepared Positions" stratagem? Puts a serious dent in ranged damage output, especially against MEQ, so build lists around going second?
BAN wrote: Anyone thought about how they will fill their hq requirements?
Likely a pair of Wierdboyz (have one currently) then pretty basic Warbosses for the advance then charge aura, keep them reasonably cheap as plenty locally love snipers.
the big mek with KFF is crying currently.
Until I get more models limited to just two HQ here
Played a 2.5k pt game today. 2 ork players vs a knight and primaris player.
Lists were pretty good but not too optimised as noone had planned for such a game.
Here are a couple highlights and thoughts:
- we had 3*30 boyz. They were still good. Evil sunz boyz are really fast. You will definitely make more charges than before. But keep in mind that you most likely won't be able to use grot screens after you move.
Had a chance to use endless greentide. Was worth it. Especially from a psychological pov. Also, it's basically another deepstrike. It combos pretty well with grot screens t1 if you don't get 1st turn or if you decide to get a bunch of grots up front. Maybe with a wierdboy or 2 cp. Not sure yet.
For smaller games, for footsloggers at least 2x30 boyz are a must. And we need to clear out screens
- grots are needed now. We need tons of cp to work now. And boyz are more expensive. Also, grot shields are pretty good to eat damage turn one so that you can have a couple boyz left to use an endless greentide if the enemy decides to finish the boyz off. Also, can combo with a wierdboy deepstrike to eat frightening overwatch for something like meganobz. Anywayz, if you don't have grots, get ready to buy a bunch. You DO need those cp.
- meganobz were good. The best part for me as i have a lot of them. We ran 2x10. Deepstrike strategem and a price cut was all they needed. We ran basic manz - 350 pt for a unit. We ran them as evil sunz. Was worth it. One squad one-shot a knight with a fight twice strategem. Though we managed to eat overwatch with a grot screen
- bosses are noticeably more expensive. But a relic klaw and warlort traits are pretty good. They are still needed for hordes. A relik claw boss with a wierdboy'z buff and a strategem to fight after death has ok chances of killing a knight outright. Who else can do it for 80 pts
- wierdboyz are just as good as before. +3 casting cap is mostly enough
- index biker boss is still one of the best hq. If it's still legal. I'm not sure. I ran a bad moon biker boss with a klaw and a blunderbuss relic with a kskorcha. It did a number on those primaris marines and even overwatched a couple wounds away from a knight before getting stomped into the ground
- bad moon tankbustas are dead killy vs vehicles with a shoot twice strategem. We got first blood one-shotting a baby knight. Also, got 6 wounds through 4++ on a large one. All from 12 tankbustas. Not cheap and fragile though. But a cheaper trukk makes this combo a tiny bit cheaper than before
- smasha gunz were pretty good. Don't know about kmk but smashas are definitely worth it now. An averafe of 1 hit per gun. Not bad for merely 31 pt.
- koptas were still not amazing but much better for points as they went 20-ish points cheaper.
- burna bomber hasn't changed much
After all, orks won handily. We have improved mobility, a lot more good options. Codex is strong. We're back. WAAAAAAGH!
Rismonite wrote: Deffdread confusion. Can we use the CCW and the saw in melee or are those of us with three CCWs and a skorcha ripping an arm off? I am sure I am missing something.. right?
Looking at the entry it seems you can get 2 klaws and 2 saws, since you can only replace the shootas with saws if you want those extra attacks. Unless I'm looking at it wrong which is entirely possible.
It won’t last past the faq; but enjoy those 2++ Meganobz while you can, Boyz. Wouldn’t try it in casual tables (they’ll just hit you instead of hitting the nobz), but in a tournament, well... RAW is RAW. . .
Nobody in their right mind would allow that. Everyone knows what the devs intended.
The reasoning is that there is a rule that states that a negative roll is really a 1, which satisfies the megaob's 1+ armor, while simultaneously not being a natural 1. AP-5 weapon on them with roll of 4 means 4-5 = -1 which is really a 1 and the meganob is 1+, so it passes.
It won’t last past the faq; but enjoy those 2++ Meganobz while you can, Boyz. Wouldn’t try it in casual tables (they’ll just hit you instead of hitting the nobz), but in a tournament, well... RAW is RAW. . .
Nobody in their right mind would allow that. Everyone knows what the devs intended.
The reasoning is that there is a rule that states that a negative roll is really a 1, which satisfies the megaob's 1+ armor, while simultaneously not being a natural 1. AP-5 weapon on them with roll of 4 means 4-5 = -1 which is really a 1 and the meganob is 1+, so it passes.
Total Bacon move.
I bet you make your opponents roll to hit too. Total JimOnMars move. /s Everyone knows the devs "intended" for Blue Painted Marines to automatically hit.
It's not my fault GW cannot write rules properly.
So, I've seen people say that Choppa/Choppa nobz are pretty decent, but I just don't see it. They might be more "durable" but Boyz still outattack them and with Skarboyz they are hitting as the same Strength.
lord_blackfang wrote: Brigades got a lot harder since I found out Minimeks can't take gun upgrades for cheap but useful Elites in Deffskull MSU. Will probably switch to 2 Battalions.
For 29 points, a 3 wound mek with kustom mega slugga does d6 damage up close. Not great but you can fill extra trukk slots with them.
Nobs are point for point the same wound per point as boys with a 4+ armor save.
Boys can be in bigger units, and with the green tide buff in a 30 man mob, will outstrike nobs with Choppa and slugga.
For 14 ppm you're getting .71 dead MEQs with a dual Choppa nob.
For 14 ppm you're getting 2 slugga boys with 3 attacks each dealing .65 wounds to MEQ in average. Or .87 with green tide
So for MSU under 20 models, Nobs are clearly superior. For larger mobs, boys deal more damage in CC and are arguably better off due to better leadership and more wounds, but bear in mind a 30 man mob is costing you 210 points to start, versus 148 for a 10 man nob squad with 2 runts. Point for point, nobs are a very good value and are more flexible with transports.
They pair better with battlewagons and trukks, which traditionally hurt boys' green tide and mob rule abilities. Keep in mind, below 20 models, slugga boys do less against MEQ than nobs. It's only when they have over 20 that they do more, and not a world apart like it used to be.
Need an hand with my list, please say if is not ok.
Can you point out weakness ? The idea is of using a lot of cp in the start to deep the G-Naut, cloud the bikes and move again and use the meatshield to protect the big Stormboyz unit.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP ++
+ HQ +
Warboss on Warbike: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
Weirdboy
JimOnMars wrote: But take 30 naked skarboyz...6 die to overwatch.
That leaves 24, with 4 attacks each, is 192 attacks. Against a knight it's still 42 wounds. All with just 1 naked unit of scarboyz.
ETA: 50 wounds. Forgot the exploding 6s!
Problem is getting those 30 boyz there. 30 is dirt easy to kill. Being goff rather than evil sun you can\t even rely on deep strike+assault combo. So how you plan to get 30 intact to charge against knights? You need to plan bit more than just look at "all those attacks". If only some of your boyz have S5 then obviously all those will be targeted first. And knight player doesn't even need more than 1 turn to shoot out 1 unit without trouble.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Solosam47 wrote: Picked up my codex today, looking through it, it for sure has its ups and downs. I want too happy with the loss of big Meks with kff (I don’t want to run him as a normal mek, maybe convert a Sag) but anyhow I am happy with kultures and stratagems. A big thing on my mind right now though is Walkers. From the killa kan to the stompa, anyone cook up some ideas for them? How are you feeling stompas may fair now that the codex is out?
Also a random thought is I feel storm boys and zag got a nice improvement with the deep strike. I haven’t compared point but if they are roughly the same my zag will be coming back out in force!
I’m excited to see some list building aswell!
Stompa is alas still complete junk. Okay guns got slight improvement but no clan culture to help, no real strategem to help and survivability didn't get real boost(d3 wounds regenerate...Gee! Averages 1/20 of it's wounds and that's if it survives. 2 out of 3 outings it's been 1 shotted, 1 time it went to 4 wounds and next turn got like dozen wounds to it so d3 regeneration wouldn't have helped anyway). It's worth maybe 500 points at a stretch yet costs over 900...
Just don't use stompa unless you want to lose up automatically.
Killa kans are also bad but good news is dreadnoughts and gorkanauts became useful when evil suns and deep striked. Trying to footslog is still as useless as before though. So don't take and try to foot slog. And you need that evil sun trait to have reliable charge.
If you deepstrike a couple skarboy squads, one is bound to make a charge. You're looking at a bit above 50% chances iirc. Like 52 or 55.
Footslogging is also possible but you do need a plan. Maybe a wagon.
Numbers indeed look good. But in practice getting a unit of boyz there ain't easy.
I'd probably rely on the characters more. A relic klaw warboss has good chances of downing a knight if he gets a painboy biff and than dies fighting twice. Ghaz is still a beast. Bsdmoon tankbustas are killy, though fragile. Manz are also good at killing knights. Maybe a couple squads of deepstriking deffdreads.
As for regular boyz, they can deal some wounds to a knight. But i'd not expect more than 4 or 5 from a full unit. Between overwatch and positioning problems on real tables there are a lot of attacks getting wasted.
Pandabeer wrote: S
Stompa for 450 points would be ridiculous, it's significantly more powerful than a Knight Errant (most direct comparison). The 900+ points it costs now is too much for sure though, I think a fair price tag would be around the 650-700 points including wargear mark. Still, I wonder if a properly supported Stompa (Big Mek w/ KFF + Fixer Upperz, maybe on a bike?) can't be made worth it's current pricetag.
Is it? Knights are pretty much same survivability(knights have better degration table though so while comparable survivability knights are more efficient when damaged...) and about equal in h2h. Oh and knights generally shoot better...So let's see. Not tougher, not killier in h2h, loses gun fight. What's so good about stompa?
Javadog wrote: On the subject of deff dreads, is it worth it to sacrifice a saw for the skorcha, or go all out on the melee arms?
have three here, one is all melee, have to check but was built as four claw (I think ones a saw in practice), annoying as now needs to proxy one arm (or maybe two) as saws since it appears you can only have two claws.
the other two have a pair of claws and a pair of skorcha (gets around the pants BS of orks), idea is to be able to do something outside combat, or say against scouts lurking in ruins and similar. Think the flexibility is worth while for the cost of two attacks on two of the models.
Three melee and one skorcha I thought about but 1d6 is a bit poor, 2d6 seemed more reliable
As for stompa, haven't tried it yet but it does still look too fragile for pts. It is like 3 times killier than it used to be though. I'd probably say from it's stats and pure antiknight experience thst a stompa is like 150-200 pt overpriced for competitive gaming. But it is good for more relaxed games.
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me, every review available including front line gaming talks regarding the codex are all saying it will be a high/top tier book and overall the book is outstanding as a complete book.
Many just like to complain for the sake of it, you have a brand new dex, with some of the best internal balance shown in a codex, options galore, you can run any form of list and still do well.
Playtest the book first and get some games under your belts before going doom and gloom
Ah yes the team with "Stompas are awesome" or "Grethin are orks' best unit" or lollol "Necrons are powerful". Yeah those have sooooooo high credibility. Oh and they are store...IT's their vested interest to make them look strong and have people buy from them. BUY THEM BUY THEM BUY THEM. Sorry but don't trust sales people to actually give honest statements.
Sure is convincing when Imperium soup player says that stuff. But sure go ahead and dominate tournaments and show they are correct then.
Emicrania wrote: Need an hand with my list, please say if is not ok.
Can you point out weakness ? The idea is of using a lot of cp in the start to deep the G-Naut, cloud the bikes and move again and use the meatshield to protect the big Stormboyz unit.
evil sunz for everything would be good for those turn 2 charges, but if you can then try to get the tankbustas deathskulls for better shooting and can hold objectives.
speeking of tankbustas i diddnt see a transport, so im guessing your telyporting them?
stomrboyz get a nerf/buff. a little more expensive but now can deepstrike (though they no longer can charge after advance). evil sunz for turn 2 charges would be best.
make sure you have enough cp to get ramming speed for your gork when it comes on table turn 2.
orks now can do fairly reliable turn 2 charges now. turn 1 charges are pipedreams, but as long any of our stuff is in reserves you dont have to worry about that stuff getting shot off the board (though make sure that what you have on the board is sturdy enough to suffer one round of shooting).
also, be carefull about how much you put in reserves. you need half your PL on the board as well as half you amount of units on the board. if your having issues with this then consider a weirdboy for "dajump" to move any infantry unit (dajump is not deploying in reserves so it doesnt count for it).
You can get a Kultur with your Stompa, if you include it in a Supreme Command Detachment. Only detachment that don't get a Kultur is Super Heavy.
On the topic of the Stompa: it just doesn't have the survivability for its point cost. 3+ with no Invuln and no FnP just means it's gonna get nailed with your opponent's anti-tank and taken out in Turn 1. If it was cheaper, at least it'd be a good draw from your other troops. But you're throwing too many pts into the thing for it to get wiped in 1 shooting phase.
koooaei wrote: As for stompa, haven't tried it yet but it does still look too fragile for pts. It is like 3 times killier than it used to be though. I'd probably say from it's stats and pure antiknight experience thst a stompa is like 150-200 pt overpriced for competitive gaming. But it is good for more relaxed games.
Thing is lack of killyness was never issue. Problem is it's >900 model that gets 1 shotted without too much of a trouble. It's not even tough! It's pretty much as tough as knight except at least knights don't degrade as badly. All that killyness means nothing when armies are made with idea "can you 1 shot knight? If not you suck" and if somebody can 1 shot knight they will 1 shot a stompa as well...
flandarz wrote: You can get a Kultur with your Stompa, if you include it in a Supreme Command Detachment. Only detachment that don't get a Kultur is Super Heavy.
On the topic of the Stompa: it just doesn't have the survivability for its point cost. 3+ with no Invuln and no FnP just means it's gonna get nailed with your opponent's anti-tank and taken out in Turn 1. If it was cheaper, at least it'd be a good draw from your other troops. But you're throwing too many pts into the thing for it to get wiped in 1 shooting phase.
Ah but then you also need to find out points for at least 9 HQ's...That's a lot of HQ's to pay for after paying 900+ for stompa.
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me
Ah yes the team with "Stompas are awesome" or "Grethin are orks' best unit" or lollol "Necrons are powerful".
i already reported him for trying to derail the thread. lets not get carried away with trying to respond to him.
as far as defdreds go i realy like the 4 claws/saws and is important for good melee, but i would only pay for those if you tellyport the dredd. infact i would never footslog a dredd again as long as it has access to the tellyport.
ive traditionally run dredmobs and telyport is great for me. and while killakans didnt get access to it ive found a good replacement are meganobz.
So someone mentioned a warlord trait that allows you to add 3 to a waaagh move if you already have Waaagh.
Can someone confirm that and provide their thoughts?
I personally know that I will be using this trait for at least one game to see how it impacts the speed of a unit. I keep thinking about this alongside the evil sunz trait.
TedNugent wrote: So someone mentioned a warlord trait that allows you to add 3 to a waaagh move if you already have Waaagh.
Can someone confirm that and provide their thoughts?
I personally know that I will be using this trait for at least one game to see how it impacts the speed of a unit. I keep thinking about this alongside the evil sunz trait.
i think they might be thinking of one of the general warlord traits "follow me ladz" but it give your warlord waaagh and breakin heads ability, if they already have them then the waagh and breakin heads ability's range is increased by 3inches (so not a buff to speed but the range of your buff).
Emicrania wrote: Need an hand with my list, please say if is not ok.
Can you point out weakness ? The idea is of using a lot of cp in the start to deep the G-Naut, cloud the bikes and move again and use the meatshield to protect the big Stormboyz unit.
evil sunz for everything would be good for those turn 2 charges, but if you can then try to get the tankbustas deathskulls for better shooting and can hold objectives.
speeking of tankbustas i diddnt see a transport, so im guessing your telyporting them?
stomrboyz get a nerf/buff. a little more expensive but now can deepstrike (though they no longer can charge after advance). evil sunz for turn 2 charges would be best.
make sure you have enough cp to get ramming speed for your gork when it comes on table turn 2.
orks now can do fairly reliable turn 2 charges now. turn 1 charges are pipedreams, but as long any of our stuff is in reserves you dont have to worry about that stuff getting shot off the board (though make sure that what you have on the board is sturdy enough to suffer one round of shooting).
also, be carefull about how much you put in reserves. you need half your PL on the board as well as half you amount of units on the board. if your having issues with this then consider a weirdboy for "dajump" to move any infantry unit (dajump is not deploying in reserves so it doesnt count for it).
Thanks for the input, I think evil sunz is the way to go, Tänkabusta will be in the Trukk, can't the G-NAUT charge with the 3d6 stratagem and tellyporta?
TedNugent wrote: So someone mentioned a warlord trait that allows you to add 3 to a waaagh move if you already have Waaagh.
Can someone confirm that and provide their thoughts?
I personally know that I will be using this trait for at least one game to see how it impacts the speed of a unit. I keep thinking about this alongside the evil sunz trait.
Follow Me, Ladz gives your warlord Waaagh! and Breakin' Heads, if they already have them then the range of each is increased by 3". Confirmed.
Thanks for the input, I think evil sunz is the way to go, Tänkabusta will be in the Trukk, can't the G-NAUT charge with the 3d6 stratagem and tellyporta?
didnt notice the truck.
the gork can tellyport and ramming speed, you just need the cp to pay for both those strategies. its a very good combo.
Pandabeer wrote: S
Stompa for 450 points would be ridiculous, it's significantly more powerful than a Knight Errant (most direct comparison). The 900+ points it costs now is too much for sure though, I think a fair price tag would be around the 650-700 points including wargear mark. Still, I wonder if a properly supported Stompa (Big Mek w/ KFF + Fixer Upperz, maybe on a bike?) can't be made worth it's current pricetag.
Is it? Knights are pretty much same survivability(knights have better degration table though so while comparable survivability knights are more efficient when damaged...) and about equal in h2h. Oh and knights generally shoot better...So let's see. Not tougher, not killier in h2h, loses gun fight. What's so good about stompa?
So, let's see then. I'm going to compare it to a Knight Errant because that's probably the closest comparison given the loadout of both:
Shooting: Errant has D6 Thermal Cannon + probably the 3-shot Stormspear Rocket Pod. Gonna leave the minor stuff like stubbers out. Stompa has 3D6 Deffkannon, probably a 6D6 Supa-Gatler and a D6 Suparokkit (or whatever it's called). Even with BS5+ that means a Stompa outshoots a Knight Errant. The comparison gets even more in favour of the Stompa when you realize the Stompa's BS doesn't degrade at all. Both have stratagems to increase their shooting output (although Knights are house-specific I thought). Stompa wins.
Melee: Stompa has A6 S20 AP-5 D6, Errant has A4 S12 AP-3 D6 or A4 S16 AP-4 D6 at the cost of -1 to hit. Stompa degrades much worse as it loses wounds though (it loses both A and WS, Knight only loses WS), so melee is about equal I'd say.
Survivability: Tough one to call given the load of variables that can potentially be at work here. Only thing that can be said is that the Stompa is significantly more resilient than the Knight against small arms fire by the simple virtue of having 16 more wounds unless the Knight has the Armor of the Sainted Ion which gives it 2+ armor. Anti-tank entirely depends on whether the Knight has the Ion Bulwark Warlord Trait and how many CP one is willing and able to spend on Rotate Ion Shields. I'd say that with the Ion Bulwark trait the Knight will be stronger against anti-tank. Without Stompa is slightly more resilient I think. Although the Stompa can also be supported by a KFF (costs points instead of CP) for 5++. All in all I can't point out a definitive winner here, although I think overall balance slightly favours the Stompa unless the Knight has a very specific build. Better against small arms fire, about equal AT but AT resilience heavily depends on builds on both sides.
All in all I think a Stompa is clearly more powerful than a Questoris class Knight, so I think a 650-700 point price tag is justified. I'm getting the feeling that maybe the Stompa might have been priced to be used in conjunction with the Tellyporta stratagem, that the developers later thought "Deepstriking a Stompa is too much", limited Tellyport to 20 PL but then forgot to shave off 200 points of the Stompa pricetag. That or GW just thinks "Well, we sell the model so it has to be in the codex but we think Stompa's don't belong in non-Apoc games so we're giving it a way too high pricetag".
Javadog wrote: On the subject of deff dreads, is it worth it to sacrifice a saw for the skorcha, or go all out on the melee arms?
Just go all melee arms. Tellyport a mob of 3 Evil Sunz dreads and have fun.
TedNugent wrote: So someone mentioned a warlord trait that allows you to add 3 to a waaagh move if you already have Waaagh.
Can someone confirm that and provide their thoughts?
I personally know that I will be using this trait for at least one game to see how it impacts the speed of a unit. I keep thinking about this alongside the evil sunz trait.
i think they might be thinking of one of the general warlord traits "follow me ladz"
but it give your warlord waaagh and breakin heads ability, if they already have them then the waagh and breakin heads ability's range is increased by 3inches (so not a buff to speed but the range of your buff).
I just noticed in the warlord traits section that the clan specific warlord trait for Goffs is objectively worse than the standard Might is Right trait. One gives +1 attack and +1 strength while the other just gives +1 attack. Kinda a shame that Goffs don't get something cooler to work with.
All in all I think a Stompa is clearly more powerful than a Questoris class Knight, so I think a 650-700 point price tag is justified. I'm getting the feeling that maybe the Stompa might have been priced to be used in conjunction with the Tellyporta stratagem, that the developers later thought "Deepstriking a Stompa is too much", limited Tellyport to 20 PL but then forgot to shave off 200 points of the Stompa pricetag. That or GW just thinks "Well, we sell the model so it has to be in the codex but we think Stompa's don't belong in non-Apoc games so we're giving it a way too high pricetag".
yeah, i look at the stompa and think...
"if i want something good for melee then ill just bring a gorkanaut or 2"
"if i want something thats good for ranges i would bring new buggies or mekguns"
the stompa looks like it has better shooting then melee, but its shooting isnt that impressive, and in a meta full of knights then thats whats its going to be compared to. run it for fun apokalypse games, dont expect it to pull its weight in competitve of even some casual games.
i just look at the thing and decide id rather run a telyport and rammingspeed gorkanaut with a good battery of mekguns for ranged support.
for it to be considered for competitive it has to overcorrect it down 1st to half its price. if it turns out its too good at that price then make it a little more expensive. (though i suspect it wont be.)
Javadog wrote: I just noticed in the warlord traits section that the clan specific warlord trait for Goffs is objectively worse than the standard Might is Right trait. One gives +1 attack and +1 strength while the other just gives +1 attack. Kinda a shame that Goffs don't get something cooler to work with.
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me
Ah yes the team with "Stompas are awesome" or "Grethin are orks' best unit" or lollol "Necrons are powerful".
i already reported him for trying to derail the thread. lets not get carried away with trying to respond to him.
as far as defdreds go i realy like the 4 claws/saws and is important for good melee, but i would only pay for those if you tellyport the dredd. infact i would never footslog a dredd again as long as it has access to the tellyport.
ive traditionally run dredmobs and telyport is great for me. and while killakans didnt get access to it ive found a good replacement are meganobz.
There are situations where you want footslogging though. Like when you face a melle alpha strike yourself. Or armies with access to extra shooting vs deepstrikers. Deepstrikung dreads in front of 10 helblasters with azrael is basically giving them away for free.
Javadog wrote: I just noticed in the warlord traits section that the clan specific warlord trait for Goffs is objectively worse than the standard Might is Right trait. One gives +1 attack and +1 strength while the other just gives +1 attack. Kinda a shame that Goffs don't get something cooler to work with.
i think thats meant to be more or less so that ghazgull's specific warlord trait (as he has to take it if hes your warlord), thats why its worse then the general one, becasue ghazgull is more of a beat stick and only would need a slight buff.
There are situations where you want footslogging though. Like when you face a melle alpha strike yourself. Or armies with access to extra shooting vs deepstrikers. Deepstrikung dreads in front of 10 helblasters with azrael is basically giving them away for free.
good point. my main opponents for the longest time were guard and tau, so my thinking is always "how do i get closer to combat".
PiñaColada wrote: Overall I'm really happy with the 'dex after flipping through it. I am however disappointed that spanners are now 1 for every 5 models instead of simply up to 3.
Tankhammers have also been nerfed in that regard, now you can only have 1 for every 5 models instead of 2 for every 5. That basically makes them useless IMO since the majority of the unit doesn't want to be in CC even if you give the nob a power klaw. Shame
I imagine it's just how the Loota/Burna kit is built so makes sense. Does suck though, walking three Meks behind a Stompa was fun.
Tankbustas are still great even with the nerf.
----
Personally I'm undecided on where to rebuild my Waaagh! Got the Deffkilla Wartrakk and Mek Shop as I love both kits. Will probably get a buggy at some point.
Overall, liking the Codex so far. Seems fun, strong and yet, not OP.
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me
Ah yes the team with "Stompas are awesome" or "Grethin are orks' best unit" or lollol "Necrons are powerful".
i already reported him for trying to derail the thread. lets not get carried away with trying to respond to him.
as far as defdreds go i realy like the 4 claws/saws and is important for good melee, but i would only pay for those if you tellyport the dredd. infact i would never footslog a dredd again as long as it has access to the tellyport.
ive traditionally run dredmobs and telyport is great for me. and while killakans didnt get access to it ive found a good replacement are meganobz.
There are situations where you want footslogging though. Like when you face a melle alpha strike yourself. Or armies with access to extra shooting vs deepstrikers. Deepstrikung dreads in front of 10 helblasters with azrael is basically giving them away for free.
If you deepstrike 1. Hellblasta with Azrael can only target one dread.
And they would severely overkill it.
Azrael plus hellblasters is an enormous number of wounds. You would want to target a knight or a tank or vehicle squadron with that. It's also around 400 points for that blob.
Deepstriking 3-6 dreads is probably the best thing you could do. High probability of combat and target saturation.
Shinzra wrote: People saying Orks will be low tier baffles me
Ah yes the team with "Stompas are awesome" or "Grethin are orks' best unit" or lollol "Necrons are powerful".
i already reported him for trying to derail the thread. lets not get carried away with trying to respond to him.
as far as defdreds go i realy like the 4 claws/saws and is important for good melee, but i would only pay for those if you tellyport the dredd. infact i would never footslog a dredd again as long as it has access to the tellyport.
ive traditionally run dredmobs and telyport is great for me. and while killakans didnt get access to it ive found a good replacement are meganobz.
There are situations where you want footslogging though. Like when you face a melle alpha strike yourself. Or armies with access to extra shooting vs deepstrikers. Deepstrikung dreads in front of 10 helblasters with azrael is basically giving them away for free.
If you deepstrike 1. Hellblasta with Azrael can only target one dread.
And they would severely overkill it.
Azrael plus hellblasters is an enormous number of wounds. You would want to target a knight or a tank or vehicle squadron with that. It's also around 400 points for that blob.
Deepstriking 3-6 dreads is probably the best thing you could do. High probability of combat and target saturation.
I'm puting my money on the blob killing every single dread on overwatch one by one. Half the squad would certainly die in the process though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone tried a gunwagon and our new shooty biggies yet?
BaconCatBug wrote: As long as there isn't a house rule saying otherwise, yes, it's legal as long as it's a CHARACTER and your warlord meets the criteria.
im gonna use my index characters as long as i can. they are pretty much better then what we still have leftover, the bike characters were essential for any list.
now with our current options? i think i will run the warttrike and zhadnsnark...but i have problems justifying any other character we currently have with some price increases across the board for them and lack of war gear options.
Dr.Duck wrote: Using the Port strat. Can I port 3 Dreads from the same dread mob using the strat only once?
Gorknaut is still prety pricy and im just as eagar to use dreads as the naut.
defdredds only split when they hit the field. so fill that telyportah with full squads of dredds for ultimate kromping.
also the gorkanaut might be more expsnive but is still a very durable platform to come out of tellyport. ramming speed is better for vehicle squads/big vehicles. so while deffdredds sp[lit once they hit the board its not very efficient to ramming speed only one of them. gorkanauts pretty much get guaranteed charges with ramming speed.
and of course run them all as evil sunz for sprinting walkers.
Dr.Duck wrote: Using the Port strat. Can I port 3 Dreads from the same dread mob using the strat only once?
Gorknaut is still prety pricy and im just as eagar to use dreads as the naut.
defdredds only split when they hit the field. so fill that telyportah with full squads of dredds for ultimate kromping.
also the gorkanaut might be more expsnive but is still a very durable platform to come out of tellyport. ramming speed is better for vehicle squads/big vehicles. so while deffdredds sp[lit once they hit the board its not very efficient to ramming speed only one of them. gorkanauts pretty much get guaranteed charges with ramming speed.
and of course run them all as evil sunz for sprinting walkers.
If suns 8 on 2 dice with rerolls isnt too bad but I agree with you. I like the versitility of spreading out the damage more with the dreads. Can engage potentillay multiple units and tie them up etc.
I might end up doing both in a few games and feel it out. Its only about a thrid of the list anyway and is a huge alpha strike and distruption.
Dr.Duck wrote: Using the Port strat. Can I port 3 Dreads from the same dread mob using the strat only once?
Gorknaut is still prety pricy and im just as eagar to use dreads as the naut.
defdredds only split when they hit the field. so fill that telyportah with full squads of dredds for ultimate kromping.
also the gorkanaut might be more expsnive but is still a very durable platform to come out of tellyport. ramming speed is better for vehicle squads/big vehicles. so while deffdredds sp[lit once they hit the board its not very efficient to ramming speed only one of them. gorkanauts pretty much get guaranteed charges with ramming speed.
and of course run them all as evil sunz for sprinting walkers.
If suns 8 on 2 dice with rerolls isnt too bad but I agree with you. I like the versitility of spreading out the damage more with the dreads. Can engage potentillay multiple units and tie them up etc.
I might end up doing both in a few games and feel it out. Its only about a thrid of the list anyway and is a huge alpha strike and distruption.
I want a wagon or two filled with...stuff, a trio or so of scrapjets, a real plane or two and some mechanised squads led by a wartrike and maybe some bikes backed up by mek gunz and maybe some walkers. Kommandos, why not?! What would be best used to fill those transports? I like the burna/loota models, I have a decent amount of Nobs and boys, I could always get Meganobs or tankbustas and more painboyz/meks etc as needed.
koooaei wrote: As for stompa, haven't tried it yet but it does still look too fragile for pts. It is like 3 times killier than it used to be though. I'd probably say from it's stats and pure antiknight experience thst a stompa is like 150-200 pt overpriced for competitive gaming. But it is good for more relaxed games.
To put some math to it, here is a calculation of some best case scenarios for various units:
As you can see the Stompa is probably most comparable to the Knight Crusader when it comes to Shooting. The Crusader out performs it substantially in shooting, but It swings substantially harder in CC, and has transport capacity, so lets say it should run about 100 pts more than the Crusader. Also, I think the Crusader is about 75 points undercosted. So I would say that a fair costing of a stompa is about 720 points. AKA roughly 200 points less than it is.
The biggest flaw of the Stompa is the Castellan. It won't usually one-shot it, but it will statistically take it down to it's lowest tier, and should have no issues killing it in 2 rounds of shooting. As long as the Castellan is in the meta in a big way (and comically undercosted), the Stompa isn't going to be effectively viable for Orks.
Hey guys I ran a list over the weekend with a Battalion Detachment of Evil Sunz and a Battalion of Freeboota's.
I think Flashgitz are devastating now. I took 2 units of 5 FG, and they were accompanied by Badrukk, a Weirdboy a unit of shoota boyz, a unit of Grotz, and a unit of 10 boyz. I stuck the Flashgitz and shootaboyz in a battlewagon with four big shootaz, moved them to the middle of the battle field turn 1, and moved Badrukk up next to the battlewagon.
They were amazing. DDD is godlike on them, and re-rolling 1's for Badrukk is also amazing. If I am reading the army trait right, if a Freeboota unit kills an enemy within 24 inches of other freebootas, they all get plus 1 to hit in that phase? So a big squad of Shoota boyz or a BM SAG kills a unit, then all the FG get +1 to hit within 24' of that friendly unit. So if they stood still for a turn, Flashgitz are hitting on 3's?? And Kaptin get plus to hit for gitfinda, so if he also stood still for a turn and benefited from a friendly kill, does gitfinda and the army trait stack? Because he would be on BS 2 then..
I am thinking Badrukk, BM with a SAG, 3 x Shootaboyz, 3 x Flashgitz for a powerful list.
While I don't have them, 6 x Traktor Kannons is 270pts that auto hits. That kind of firepower is going to be killing Knights, and the auto hit gets round that Ion Shield stratagem. Those gunz will also completely wreck Aeldari/Quins/Drukhari army.
I think the triple Deff Dread bomb is going to be a thing as well.
im not sure how to use the morkanaut this edition. ill have to try some games.
its not a good as the gorkanaut in combat, but its shooting looks better (especially with its mega wpns getting more damage).
so maybe telyport this with kff to allow its large kff bubble to cover another gork and defdredds?
also, target priority. Mork wants to shoot vehicles and knights, but charge chaff units since with its fewer attacks you would want to always use the smash profile.
its like the opposite of the gork, where you want to shoot the chaff and charge the big vehicles/etc.
edit
maybe its better for keeping on the board, so it can shoot. keep it with your shooting units to give them KFF support and to charge anything that threatens said gunline. will have to test it out.
2, 10 man squads of tankbustas in a battlewagon, use telleport, then use more dakka on a squad, followed by the showin off strategum, thats 20 rokkit shots all of them re roll to hit, 6's explode, re roll 1's one squads dakkadakkadakka rule goes off on a 5 and 6, then 1 squad fires again. I dont know the math but im thinking thats a lot of damage.
To go with this wagon is the Gorkanaut using ramming speed
Furthermore you can jump in da boys, you could run some Bonebreaka's and scrapjets with the wartrike for an obvious T2 charge, fill in the army with dakkajets... seems like top strategies to me.
lolman1c wrote: So anybody had any success from actually games this weeken?
i had a game against a not very competitive tau list, and we didnt have the time to finish it, but my opponent said i would've won if it continued. eventually i would've bashed the rest of his force away from the objective.
its is the 1st post on this page
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/766225.page#10216841
i find it amusing the grot shield strat must be spent after an ork unit gets hit by the attack, but the wounds dont shift over until theyre actually suffered by the orks.
Which means you can actually double-down on painboy rolls. Boy rolls, fails, on a 2+ it goes to a grot as a mortal wound. Mortal wounds are FNP'able. Best part, doesnt last for that attack it lasts for the phase...
lolman1c wrote: So anybody had any success from actually games this weeken?
I played 2000pt game, Maelstrom of war, Dawn of War Deployment. My opponent was Blood Angels and Grey Knights and I used a battalion each of Evil Sunz and Freebootas. I ended up winning 14-9.
I did run Ghazghul as my Warlord, but thinking back, is that legal or do i need to take a Goff Detachment to include him? He was absolutely beastly and was only brought down at the end by a Smash Captain. IMO you have to take a Weirdboy/Warphead to get the most out of Ghaz.
Flashgits sound great; but without RR1's (BadMoonz) or "Shoot Twice" (BadMoonz); they just seem like you could get more value out of other units.
Yeah, Kaptin Badrukk is a thing - but, how many points are you paying for that combination? Don't forget that you need to add in the transport to make sure they get in range/survivability. I just would think that, for the points invested (150+(~90)+90/120); so roughtly 350/360 - you might be able to get stronger, shootier, options. I'm curious how the mathhammer works out regarding all our options.
That said, yes, they'd get +1 to hit if a friendly Freebooterz unit killed an enemy during the round. They'd also be hitting on 3's if they managed to stay still.
Vineheart01 wrote: i find it amusing the grot shield strat must be spent after an ork unit gets hit by the attack, but the wounds dont shift over until theyre actually suffered by the orks.
Which means you can actually double-down on painboy rolls. Boy rolls, fails, on a 2+ it goes to a grot as a mortal wound. Mortal wounds are FNP'able. Best part, doesnt last for that attack it lasts for the phase...
It doesn't goes to grots as a mortal wound. It goes to grots as "One model in the Gretchin unit (your choice) is slain."
Vineheart01 wrote: i find it amusing the grot shield strat must be spent after an ork unit gets hit by the attack, but the wounds dont shift over until theyre actually suffered by the orks.
Which means you can actually double-down on painboy rolls. Boy rolls, fails, on a 2+ it goes to a grot as a mortal wound. Mortal wounds are FNP'able. Best part, doesnt last for that attack it lasts for the phase...
It doesn't goes to grots as a mortal wound. It goes to grots as "One model in the Gretchin unit (your choice) is slain."
Still though, not having to take the loss until you know a boy will die is kinda sweet.
Grotsx30, grotsx10, Skarboyzx30 repeat. Goff Greentide could be pretty mean, str5 attacks in such number are nice. Any amount of jumping some speedfreak boyz or maybe some ramming speed Deff Dreadz in addition to the footslog mob is really a combination of things in assault that orkz thrive at.
So if I understand it right, Index options are still available for units even when they get replaced in a codex.
So a Big Mek could pick from the index Big Mek options, to get a KFF despite that model being retired. He just pays codex points for being a Big Mek, and codex points for a KFF.
Do Index Deffkoptas therefore pay codex price for being DeffKoptas, and can also pay 15pts for a Killsaw (as that was an option and this is the codex price), and 0pts for a Bigbomm? Index option and index price - weapon doesn't exist in the codex?
Tastyfish wrote: So if I understand it right, Index options are still available for units even when they get replaced in a codex.
So a Big Mek could pick from the index Big Mek options, to get a KFF despite that model being retired. He just pays codex points for being a Big Mek, and codex points for a KFF.
Do Index Deffkoptas therefore pay codex price for being DeffKoptas, and can also pay 15pts for a Killsaw (as that was an option and this is the codex price), and 0pts for a Bigbomm? Index option and index price - weapon doesn't exist in the codex?
So I've seen people saying I can't just take 4 saws on my Deff Dreads and I'd like to know why. Because I figure "may repace any of it's shootas and/or Klaws" to mean I can replace all 4 with Saws if I wanted.
Other than that, I plan on getting a Bonebreaka and 2/3 Dredds, what is the best way to utilize them? DS both, or just the Dredds and race the BW across the table? I'll be playing as Evil Sunz so speed isn't that much of an issue.
Castozor wrote: So I've seen people saying I can't just take 4 saws on my Deff Dreads and I'd like to know why. Because I figure "may repace any of it's shootas and/or Klaws" to mean I can replace all 4 with Saws if I wanted.
Other than that, I plan on getting a Bonebreaka and 2/3 Dredds, what is the best way to utilize them? DS both, or just the Dredds and race the BW across the table? I'll be playing as Evil Sunz so speed isn't that much of an issue.
You can have 4 dread saws but I think you should consider 1 claw and 3 saws to get 3 claw attacks for an additional 5 points over your 4 saws
I really dig the idea of putting Porting 3 dreads. IM pretty sure that a Suns Bone breaker can T1 charge from across the table with a trike buff and ramming speed. Potentially no need to port it.
Da lukky stikk I find only worth it on a painboy on bike, it makes the powerklaw actually hit and it creates a nice aura for other characters
Such as
Painboy on bike
Zhardsnark
Warboss on bike w relic klaw
Warboss on trike (w brutal but kunnin trait)
That’s a beastly combo
Especially when tied with Goff skar boys, grots and
3x Deffdread bomb
And kff mekadread w killkannon or Morkanaut kff 3-4x Mek guns (traktor/smasha)
Add a trukk full of tankbustas or 2
I played my first 1000 pt game today against a mate running a vanilla, non-competitive ultramarine primaris list.
Orks tabled him turn 4, using the following;
Battalion
Deathskulls
Big Mek SAG Big Mek KFF
3x 10 Gretchin
Dakkajet
Outrider
Evil Sunz
Warboss on bike, Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw
3x Shockjump Dragstas
Spearhead
Snakebite
Warphead Da Jump, Fists of Gork, scorched gitbonez
3x Smasha Guns
My thoughts were basically a list to try out some of the new units, relics and strategems, see how it all plays out. Causalities on the ork side were light and we plain outgunned the marines. Favourite part? Warboss slaughtering a unit of 10 primaris marines without breaking a sweat, and the jumping smite bomb that is the warphead.
Smasha guns are very cheap and highly effective, and the Shockjump Dragstas are also very useful. Lots of d6 damage weaponry here, and at 1000 points, not a lot that the marines could do, even with plasma.
An interesting little game, my club has been watching with interest, and are already looking for counters.
So now that the codex is out - what are our thoughts on it?
It looks strong from a competitive standpoint; but from a casual standpoint - not so much, when you're aiming to take the "fun" units. Gretchin squads of all types getting no Kultur is a loss; and then all the other units didn't get relevant enough points drops.
It seems like the code is entirely designed around Tellyporta+Da Jump, and some Evil Sunz action.
Ork Battlescribe file just got released. Update your data, and you'll have it.
I think that might help some of you with your questions like "Can I take 4 Dread Klaws?" or "Can my Nob have double Choppa?". The battlescribe file isn't always right, and the data authors can make mistakes, but seeing the options visually is really useful in my opinion.
Now back to fun. Is there a chance the Wazbom Blastajet got good? It looks to me like a Deathskulls one will do about 7 wounds to a rhino, Dreadnought, or Wave Serpent (Uncontrolled bursts negates the serpent shield effect). That is better than a shokkjump dragster, and on a more durable platform, though one that degrades.
fe40k wrote: So now that the codex is out - what are our thoughts on it?
It looks strong from a competitive standpoint; but from a casual standpoint - not so much, when you're aiming to take the "fun" units. Gretchin squads of all types getting no Kultur is a loss; and then all the other units didn't get relevant enough points drops.
It seems like the code is entirely designed around Tellyporta+Da Jump, and some Evil Sunz action.
I think the Codex has potential for really powerful lists. Spamming Traktor kannons is going to hard counter Quins, Drukhari Kabals and some Craftworld lists. That's even really strong against Knights. I know it's early days but Deathskulls look very strong, but to be honest all the Kulturs look viable.
Shame about gretchen rule because I was hoping my Grot tanks were going to get some nice buffs. I guess DDD is still pretty nice on them.
So do we think that kill saws are the go to on MANz now (assuming a way to get them into a fast charge like a BW, Tellyport, Da Jump etc)? Just thinking about how I want to model them.
On the iBooks version of the codex, some of the new buggies have grot gunners, but when you hit the link for more info on what they actually do it says they add 1 to hit rolls made with the heavy squig launcha which only the rukkatruck has. Are they meant to add one to the hit rolls of each buggies main weapon?
Javadog wrote: On the iBooks version of the codex, some of the new buggies have grot gunners, but when you hit the link for more info on what they actually do it says they add 1 to hit rolls made with the heavy squig launcha which only the rukkatruck has. Are they meant to add one to the hit rolls of each buggies main weapon?
On the other buggies, they add one to the hit roll for the grot blasta. Except the Shokkjump, which gets a +2 for the Shokk Attack Rifle from grot gunner and targetin' squig.
Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?
And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?
Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?
Eonfuzz wrote: Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?
And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?
Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?
To build on this, the rule says
"Each mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes."
Which means the Krew ARE considered as the Mek Gun for the "Must be placed within 1" of the mek gun", we can use the Gretchin to Daisy chain and shoot the mekgun.
I plan on taking evil sunz 10nobz with double choppas and weirdboy in bone breaka near wartrike and use the 3d6 charge strat to assault with bone breaka doing d3 mortals followed by 6+d6 S 9 attacks hitting on 2s. Following turn if alive disembark nobz with weirdboy. Cast warpath for 6 attacks each nob @S5 and if wagon explodes use lootit for 3+ Sv nobz. Of course I'll support this charge with scrapjet, the wartrike, wsrbikers and Zhadsnark. Should make for lots of turn 1 charges and lots of damage. Early in the game. I don't play many knight but I do play lots of marines and guard so this would be fun and fast.
Eonfuzz wrote: Because the Gretchin around the Mekguns are now part of the Mekgun model, does that mean we can shoot from the gretchin?
And because they don't have a ruleset when it says "Must be within 1" of the mekgun" because the gretchin *are* the mekgun, can you chainthem to fire the mekgun even further than normal?
Also, because they "aren't" part of the mekgun, nor do they have rules. How do they move? Can they move?
To build on this, the rule says
"Each mek Gun and its grot krew are treated as a single model for all rules purposes."
Which means the Krew ARE considered as the Mek Gun for the "Must be placed within 1" of the mek gun", we can use the Gretchin to Daisy chain and shoot the mekgun.
To answer your question:
Grot Krew: Each Mek Gun and its grot krew are treated
as a single model for all rules purposes. The krew must
remain within 1" of their Mek Gun and cannot be
targeted or attacked separately. The range and visibility
of all attacks made by a Mek Gun are measured from the
Mek Gun, not the krew.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I made a little 1k list. Gonna 'Port in the Dredz, hide the Gunz near the rear (they got some solid range), Mob Up the Boyz, and slog behind the Gretchin.
What are our thoughts on the [Deffkilla Wartrike] vs [Warboss on Warbike]?
120 points and +1 attack, +1 wound, +ability to take a 5/6 on advancing, +more shots within 8"; ability to use "-1 to hit" stratagem on
101 points and +1s, +2 attacks (but only S4/AP-1), +ability to better use "Brutal but Kunnin", +more shots up to range 18"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait - Gretchin can't benefit from kultur, nor from stratagems - unless specifically specified, right?
FFS, there goes my plan of Warpath+Da Jump 30 Snakebites Gretchin, the using "Monster Hunters"+"Get in, Boyz!", for double attacking and trying shoot down+swarm a Knight to death.
Fething MekGunz and Deathskulls kulture ruining all the grot dreams.
As I said in that thread: a Krew and its Gun counting as a single model does not mean each Grot is a Mek Gun. They're still a Grot. Any other interpretation is ignoring common sense and the rules.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Wait, am I reading this right -- Kommandos don't get burnas anymore?
Really a shame, seeing as I bought a couple of their "Kommando with burna" specifically and I don't think the model is any older than the other Kommando models.
Coh Magnussen wrote: Wait, am I reading this right -- Kommandos don't get burnas anymore?
Really a shame, seeing as I bought a couple of their "Kommando with burna" specifically and I don't think the model is any older than the other Kommando models.
You are able to use the index for this since there is a discrepancy.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I plan on taking evil sunz 10nobz with double choppas and weirdboy in bone breaka near wartrike and use the 3d6 charge strat to assault with bone breaka doing d3 mortals followed by 6+d6 S 9 attacks hitting on 2s. Following turn if alive disembark nobz with weirdboy. Cast warpath for 6 attacks each nob @S5 and if wagon explodes use lootit for 3+ Sv nobz. Of course I'll support this charge with scrapjet, the wartrike, wsrbikers and Zhadsnark. Should make for lots of turn 1 charges and lots of damage. Early in the game. I don't play many knight but I do play lots of marines and guard so this would be fun and fast.
Those same nobs would do more damage with a banner nob compared to warpath. And the banner affects all units in aura instead of just one unit only after an autoperils weirdboy casting warpath.
so, the mekadredd is t7 compared gorks t8. has 5 atacks (6 if it has 2 claws)(its atacks characteristic does not degrade, its strength does). it has 2 less wounds, and PL12.
so, i think there can be an argument made for bringing a mekadredd in from tellyport. it can be another way to bring a KFF or use megacharga to help get to another target after it kills its 1st target. it will keep its attacks no matter how few wounds it has (though it does not have a smash/bash profile), and it has bs4 and can do some damage with the newer and improved killkanon along with ddd.
i think the mekadredd will have a good place with the codex.
tellyport one with killkanon, shoot a knight equivalent and then charge it. after the knight is dead then activate megacharga to quickly catch any other hvy target is trying to get away.
gorkanauts will be tougher (311pts), but not as speedy and doesn't have the same high strength ranged damage potential and will lose attacks as it gets hurt. but then you can use the smash profile for more attacks. use the mekadredd to kill knights and the gorkanaut to wipe anything else more squishy.
geargutz wrote: also, be carefull about how much you put in reserves. you need half your PL on the board as well as half you amount of units on the board..
Nope. After fall FAQPL's have nothing to do with reserves. Instead it's now on points.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rismonite wrote: Should my Boomdakka Snazzwagon be Bad Moonz or Blood Axes :/
Army is going to be Planes Buggies Trukkbustas and like one squad of Bikes.
I'm thinking Bad Moon tankbustas and maybe make some of the quality dakka buggies and planes Deffskullz
Is it possible to make a list such that Bad Moon Tankbustas deploy inside Blood Axe or Deffskull Trukkz?
It's not got that many shots except in grenade range for bad moon to be really worth it and then you are in h2h range so blood axes could be better. One of the few things where blood axe is actually useful choise.
As for last question no. We aren't as smart as IG.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: I'm puting my money on the blob killing every single dread on overwatch one by one. Half the squad would certainly die in the process though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone tried a gunwagon and our new shooty biggies yet?
Foot slogging it wouldn't change much though except give him even more time to shoot at them so...Not sure how foot slogging is solution to the 10 hellblasters. Better solution would likely be mek gun spam yourself until they go down to level dreadnought can survive overwatch. As they hit on 6's it's not THAT many. 10 shooting is 20 shots. 30.5% hit chance with azrael and S8=4 wounds. D3 with strategem(btw was that for one shooting or for one phase? If one shooting 2nd dread would be safe)=12. So 4 overkill.
So you would need to kill 4+ to not die on average. 5 for safety.
koooaei wrote: Don't forget the banner. Every time someone dies he basically gets 2 free hits in.
I've seen this unit one-shotting a knight on overwatch.
Ah well those wouldn't be coming to the dreadnought as you would shoot at them before commiting to the deep strike obviously. T1 blow them, they shoot back at something but not at dreadnoughts, then T2 dreadnoughts comes in and hopefully first one survives into combat allowing other 2 get in safe and then squad is deleted.
Better way than trying to footslog those dreadnoughts!
That or drop in 10 evil sun boys there by DS+charge. Azrael or not you are not looking at 10+ hits so some will get there and tag them to h2h followed by dreadnoughts. Either way don't try to footslog as there's going to be looong gap to walk through.
First 2 lists I plan to try:
List 1:
Evil sun bat. Trike HQ, warboss with klaw, 2x30 boyz(klaw+big choppa), 29xgrots, gorkanaut, 6xbikes(klaw). Deathskull battallion: 2xweirdboy(da jump+something), 30xboyz(19 shootas, big choppa), 29 grots, 10 grots, 15 lootas, 2xtraktor kannons
So first one to use deep striking evil suns, second one is artirelly mob as I'm scratch building mek guns so that one mek gun box+trukk box=4 mek guns.
Built a couple of lists with BS and noticed KMKs are D6 damage now? Is this a typo or correct? Getting my codex today but if that's true KMKs are pretty legit even if it is the most expensive gun.
flandarz wrote: I'd probably take the Codex Kommandos over the Index ones. Even without Burnas, TBBs, Dakkax3, and bonus to Wound are tough to pass up.
You can use Codex profiles with Index wargear options if I'm reading the flowchart right.
flandarz wrote: I'd probably take the Codex Kommandos over the Index ones. Even without Burnas, TBBs, Dakkax3, and bonus to Wound are tough to pass up.
You can use Codex profiles with Index wargear options if I'm reading the flowchart right.
Weazel wrote: Built a couple of lists with BS and noticed KMKs are D6 damage now? Is this a typo or correct? Getting my codex today but if that's true KMKs are pretty legit even if it is the most expensive gun.
the best part is that every kustom mega weapon is d6 damage now.
Weazel wrote: Built a couple of lists with BS and noticed KMKs are D6 damage now? Is this a typo or correct? Getting my codex today but if that's true KMKs are pretty legit even if it is the most expensive gun.
the best part is that every kustom mega weapon is d6 damage now.
Yeah. Makes me want to run Quad KMB Deffdreads. 91 points for 4 str8 ap-3 d6d shots with exploding 6s and a single reroll of hit wound and damage. For each dread in the mob. It isn't awful.
Or 31 point meks with KMB (index) to fill Deathskull brigades with. They can literally reroll everything.
flandarz wrote: I'd probably take the Codex Kommandos over the Index ones. Even without Burnas, TBBs, Dakkax3, and bonus to Wound are tough to pass up.
You are not allowed to use the index datasheet for any models that have a new datasheet in the codex.
HOWEVER, you can pick up all the wargear options that were lost from the index, using codex points and rules.
That said, I don't think KMB/buzz saw kanz look as terrible as everybody says. Sure, they don't get kulture benefits, but for 49 points I think I'll give them a spin.
The quad KMB dread might also something very interesting for freebootas or bad moons, as they are better than KMK if you get re-rolling one or +1 BS.
tneva82 wrote: I'm scratch building mek guns so that one mek gun box+trukk box=4 mek guns.
This sounds interesting. Do you have some pics or advice for the process?
Spoiler:
Original tutorial I used:
You do need SOMETHING to form up some sort of core to guns. I used battlecannons from spare leman russes and some weird missiles I don't even remember what kit they came from. Above video used battlecannon weapons but basically anything round can work for that.
I played a small 1.5k (ish) list yesterday when I collected my codex and some other goodies from the LGS. Against regular Ulthwe Craftworld only player.
First impressions - I love this dex. Ran all Evil Sunz and the speed is unreal and it also feels like I'm playing a speed freeks army.
We played ITC mission 3 and I picked Ground Control, Recon and Butcher's Bill as secondaries. I think score ended something like 38-22 when we finished, Orks won.
I advanced all the time. 16" + d6+1 move bikers and 23" move koptas?! Vrooooom. I was in all four quadrants of the board by turn 1 (and we had diagonal deployment) using the Evil Sunz specific strat to move, shoot, move with bikers. Got turn 1 charge off with Boyz and kopta (who used the ramming speed strat because vehicle to do 3 MW to a unit of Dire Avengers). I ran Meganobz on foot and even they were rapid. Roll high for that advance and you end up with these TEQs going 11". Then Zhadsnark would saunter over and let them charge. It was savage.
I ran bikes in one squad of 9. Unfortunately I didn't get first turn and opponent targeted them with the parts of his army that had range which did some damage and I ended up losing one to morale. Which thinking about it I shouldn't have done because they were next to a Boyz squad of greater number. Anyway their dakka output is decent. I think they will be my screen killers as they have the tools.
I also ran a squad of 5 Nobz all with PKs and Skorchas in a Trukk. He made the mistake of killing the trukk but then kinda leaving them so they went on a bit of a rampage. After the Trukk was destroyed they Skorched a warlock council to death before charging a Wraithlord and eventually laying the smack down on him. Then they went over to a bunch of rangers who had taken an objective in my backfield and skorched them.
Opponent made some big mistakes in his first turn so he didn't bring enough dakka to bear but it felt like I was on an even footing for once. Our stratagems are beast but we're thirsty for CP, I have to go double batt or brigade next game.
Boyz feel like a liability for me now. They're great for screen clearing but I have my bikes for that. May need to replace them with Grots moving forward to get more fun stuff in.
If you made it this far with this ramble congrats!
TLDR - dex is varied and fun, my army plays like it should now.
Jidmah wrote: Ramming speed on koptas is something I haven't thought of yet. Nice!
Yea it's fun. Not exactly what anyone expects the strat to be used on either but really helps making those charges from on top of buildings
According to bscribe my Nob wargear selection was illegal? Can't have Kombi Skorcha and another weapon on a singular Nob? Also price for the Scrapjet is off - should be 110 I believe and its name is "Megatrakk Scrapjet" not Megatrukl scrapjet. The might is right warlord trait lists only +1 str when it's actually +1 str and attacks now.
All seems right on apart from those bits. Great work whatever angel sorts them.
Jidmah wrote: Ramming speed on koptas is something I haven't thought of yet. Nice!
Yea it's fun. Not exactly what anyone expects the strat to be used on either but really helps making those charges from on top of buildings
According to bscribe my Nob wargear selection was illegal? Can't have Kombi Skorcha and another weapon on a singular Nob? Also price for the Scrapjet is off - should be 110 I believe and its name is "Megatrakk Scrapjet" not Megatrukl scrapjet. The might is right warlord trait lists only +1 str when it's actually +1 str and attacks now.
All seems right on apart from those bits. Great work whatever angel sorts them.
I noticed that as well. Also I think it is incorrect as it is allowing you to take choppa and claw relics on the wartrike.
tneva82 wrote: I'm scratch building mek guns so that one mek gun box+trukk box=4 mek guns.
This sounds interesting. Do you have some pics or advice for the process?
Spoiler:
Original tutorial I used:
You do need SOMETHING to form up some sort of core to guns. I used battlecannons from spare leman russes and some weird missiles I don't even remember what kit they came from. Above video used battlecannon weapons but basically anything round can work for that.
Your mek guns look great!
Thanks for the advice and inspiration. I'll have a go at it.
Thanks for the advice and inspiration. I'll have a go at it.
Thanks. I had been planning to magnetize to have swabbability now that other than KMK are viable but then I ran into this video tutorial and went "wow this could work".
4 mek guns for price of bit less than 2 mek guns. Not too bad even if they don't look exactly like official ones but hey works for orks anyway to not have identical mek guns and size wise fairly close. Crew is of course bit of issue but a) I have 120 grots so if I don't have all out I can spare some as crew b) with codex the crew are less of issue anyway. If somebody complains about lack of area they eat(due to only 2-3 crew standing around rather than 5 25mm base) I can keep bunch of 25mm bases around to simulate the extra area.
Ugh, just realised that I can't give my 10 Nob squad kustom shootas. I liked that idea. I suppose they'll all get big choppas+choppas then Oh well, guess I got an extra 20 points to spend somewhere else.
PiñaColada wrote: Ugh, just realised that I can't give my 10 Nob squad kustom shootas. I liked that idea. I suppose they'll all get big choppas+choppas then Oh well, guess I got an extra 20 points to spend somewhere else.
They're an Index wargear option; you can still use it per the current rulings.
I'm thinking about a BadMoonz 10xNobz squad, all with Kustom Shootas, in a Chinork Warkopta w/2RattlaKannons - "5+ DDD" and "Shoot Twice:"; it shouldn't be that effective at all, but it should be hilarious/fun, which is the whole point. Add in "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" against other flyers (it transfers from the Warkopta to the passengers via open-topped), and that just sounds like a good time.
PiñaColada wrote: Ugh, just realised that I can't give my 10 Nob squad kustom shootas. I liked that idea. I suppose they'll all get big choppas+choppas then Oh well, guess I got an extra 20 points to spend somewhere else.
They're an Index wargear option; you can still use it per the current rulings.
I'm thinking about a BadMoonz 10xNobz squad, all with Kustom Shootas, in a Chinork Warkopta - "5+ DDD" and "Shoot Twice:"; it shouldn't be effective at all, but it should be hilarious/fun, which is the whole point,.
Well yeah, that's a fair point. But I would have to build quite a few of them and I'm sort of unwilling to do that with Index stuff since who knows how long that'll be around for?
What do you guys think of this 2000 points Evil Sunz Brigade?
Clan Kultur
Selections: Evil Sunz
HQ Big Mek Kustom Force Field
Deffkilla Wartrike
Warboss on Warbike Attack Squig, Butal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Warlord
Weirdboy Warphead, Warpath, Da Jump
Troops
Boyz
Boss Nob
28x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz
Boss Nob
9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
10x Gretchin
10x Gretchin
10x Gretchin
10x Gretchin
Elites
Meganobz
5x Meganob W/ PK
Nob with Waaagh! Banner
Tankbustas
Boss Nob
11x Tankbusta
Fast Attack
Deff Kopta
DeffKopta
12x Warbiker
Heavy Support
Battlewagon Deff Rolla
BoneBreaker
Mek Gunz
4x Traktor Kannon
-KFF mek goes in the battlewagon /w tankbustas
-Bike Boss joins the bikers, if possible go to the same flank as the boyz will be Jumped to for Breakin Headz.
-Banner Nob & Meganobz go in the Bonebreaka.
-10 boy squad and 30 boy squad mob up, get warpath and da jump.
I tried to create this list with a Gorkanaut in it to at some more vehicles to it, but it can't quite get it to fit.
this is a list ill have to try. the biggest and ardest and most numerous turn2 deepstrike i can assemble.
everything for the tellyport deepstrike.
deffdredds x3x3
MA warboss (badmoon bwarlord trait with supercybork for survivability, killyklaw)
then deploy
meganobz x10
meganobz x5
then mob them up and then warpath and dajump them turn 2
rest of the list
weirdboyz x3 (warpath and dajump)
grots x10x6
this will come to around 2000pts (leftover pts for wargear,additional units,etc)
2 batatlions, one badmoon for warboss and some grots, the other battalion is evilsunz and has everything else. cp13 total (8 is needed for tellyport)
this list is just one giant deepstrike.
an ard and killy warboss, 9 defdredds, and 15 meganobz right in the enemies face. this is the closest i can get to a null deployment
fe40k wrote: Add in "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" against other flyers (it transfers from the Warkopta to the passengers via open-topped), and that just sounds like a good time.
That's not how open topped works. Passengers do not gain any benefit from rules the transport has/gains.
geargutz wrote: this is a list ill have to try. the biggest and ardest and most numerous turn2 deepstrike i can assemble.
everything for the tellyport deepstrike.
deffdredds x3x3
MA warboss (badmoon bwarlord trait with supercybork for survivability, killyklaw)
then deploy
meganobz x10
meganobz x5
then mob them up and then warpath and dajump them turn 2
rest of the list
weirdboyz x3 (warpath and dajump)
grots x10x6
this will come to around 2000pts (leftover pts for wargear,additional units,etc)
2 batatlions, one badmoon for warboss and some grots, the other battalion is evilsunz and has everything else. cp13 total (8 is needed for tellyport)
this list is just one giant deepstrike.
an ard and killy warboss, 9 defdredds, and 15 meganobz right in the enemies face. this is the closest i can get to a null deployment
Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?
PiñaColada wrote: Add in "Long Uncontrolled Bursts" against other flyers (it transfers from the Warkopta to the passengers via open-topped), and that just sounds like a good time.
That's not how open topped works. Passengers do not gain any benefit from rules the transport has/gains.
Also, I did not say that.. You got some wonky things happening in your quote
Open-Topped - "...When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on..."
The "+1 against flyers" is a modifier; it stands to reason it should carry over.
Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?
Correct. So assuming 122 for MA warboss he has 878 to spend so 9 dredds=97.5 pts per dread. He could get there with 3xKMB+dread klaw or 4xdread saw etc combo. Kind of close...
Just to be clear, passengers on Evil Sunz transports can fire assault weapons without -1 hit if the transport advances? Or is there a blanket restriction on firing out of advancing vehicles altogether that I'm not aware of?
Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?
the warboss/9defdredds come to 987 pts with what i have them kitted with. the meganobz deploy normally (them and the rest of my army come to 966 pts, there is some room for manz wargear and other stuff) and will get jumped in the turn 2 psychic phase after the horde comes from reserves.
like i said, this is the closest i can get to null deployment.
Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?
the warboss/9defdredds come to 987 pts with what i have them kitted with. the meganobz deploy normally (them and the rest of my army come to 966 pts, there is some room for manz wargear and other stuff) and will get jumped in the turn 2 psychic phase after the horde comes from reserves.
like i said, this is the closest i can get to null deployment.
a) out of curiosity what's the equipment? 3xKMB+dread klaw on leads to 995 pts. Kind of weird equipment though
b) here comes interesting rule question. You have 987 pts which is <50% of 2000 pts. HOWEVER if your rest of army comes to 966 pts that means you have more deep strikers than non-deep strikers in points. Isn't that violation of reserves? Is the more than half the max army size of half the points you actually have? (also you really couldnt' figure anything to use 47 pts?)
Don't you need more than 50% of your points to start on the board?
the warboss/9defdredds come to 987 pts with what i have them kitted with. the meganobz deploy normally (them and the rest of my army come to 966 pts, there is some room for manz wargear and other stuff) and will get jumped in the turn 2 psychic phase after the horde comes from reserves.
like i said, this is the closest i can get to null deployment.
15 Storm Boyz 148
Sluggas, Choppas, Stikkbombz, Nob, Power Klaw
10 Tankbustas 170
Rokkits, Tank Busta Bombz
10 Tankbustas 170
Rokkits, Tank Busta Bombz
Runtherd 35
Grot-Prod, Slugga, Squig, Stikkbombz
Pain Boy (Dregnog urty Tongz) 65
Power Klaw, Urty Syringe
Pain Boy (Buzzrak da Medik) 65
Power Klaw, Urty Syringe
Mekgun 45
Traktor cannon
Mekgun 45
Traktor cannon
Mekgun 45
Traktor cannon
Trukk 64
Bigshoota
Trukk 64
Bigshoota
Not used mekguns before they looks so good gonna get some.
Hit on idea of mek on bike with KFF, 2 trucks with bustas near by and also the koptas. Bit of a fast anti tank wave, mek gives em all a 5++ and he can fix em up on the way.
20 rokkit shots + 4 from the koptas. ES so can advance the truks and still fire. Get close then jump both units out (assuming alive) mob them up then fire 20 d3 tank busta bombs.
Weazel wrote: Just to be clear, passengers on Evil Sunz transports can fire assault weapons without -1 hit if the transport advances? Or is there a blanket restriction on firing out of advancing vehicles altogether that I'm not aware of?
Depends. Evil Suns passengers will be able to fire without -1 to hit because Evil Suns ignore the penalty for advancing.
Flash Gits in an Evil Suns transport will not be able to shoot because they count as advancing when the transport advances and thus cannot shoot their heavy weapons.
So the klan of the passengers matters, not the klan of the transport.
a) out of curiosity what's the equipment? 3xKMB+dread klaw on leads to 995 pts. Kind of weird equipment though
b) here comes interesting rule question. You have 987 pts which is <50% of 2000 pts. HOWEVER if your rest of army comes to 966 pts that means you have more deep strikers than non-deep strikers in points. Isn't that violation of reserves? Is the more than half the max army size of half the points you actually have? (also you really couldnt' figure anything to use 47 pts?)
warboss in megarmor with pk comes to 122pts
x4 deffdredds with 2saws and 2 bigshootas= 340
x5 deffdredds with 2saws and 2claws= 525
and as far as the 47 pts, its all additional wargear ill choose later when i get my collection of meganobz in hand. i forgot what i had them all loaded with and so i went with basic manz at 35 each. i guess my list is incomplete, but i was just giving an example of the army i want to try out. sorry if i didn't make that clear enough.
Weazel wrote: Just to be clear, passengers on Evil Sunz transports can fire assault weapons without -1 hit if the transport advances? Or is there a blanket restriction on firing out of advancing vehicles altogether that I'm not aware of?
Depends. Evil Suns passengers will be able to fire without -1 to hit because Evil Suns ignore the penalty for advancing.
Flash Gits in an Evil Suns transport will not be able to shoot because they count as advancing when the transport advances and thus cannot shoot their heavy weapons.
So the klan of the passengers matters, not the klan of the transport.
Well for the sake of the argument let's say Evil Sunz Tankbustas in an Evil Sunz trukk. They can fire their rokkits without penalty even if the Trukk advances?
Sorry for the dumb question but I Always have problems understanding rules in the start, does the Mel Gunz have still 5 grots crew? Also do they benefit from Klan Rules?
Because what I see is "if ALL the unit is composed by grots"
The Mel Gunz unit is
What mek gun is the closest anologue to Zzap gunz? I don't have the index and I don't want to use it, so big gunz are out. Also, do Mek Gun krew actually do anything, or are they just wound counters? I don't have the codex yet, just brainstorming.
Emicrania wrote: Sorry for the dumb question but I Always have problems understanding rules in the start, does the Mel Gunz have still 5 grots crew? Also do they benefit from Klan Rules?
Because what I see is "if ALL the unit is composed by grots"
The Mel Gunz unit is
Still have but they don't really do anything but take space. And no clan trait. They have ONE line of keywords so all models in the unit have them and one of the keywords is GRETCHIN and if unit is composed by GRETCHINS(note it's big bolded=keyword rather than say unit name) no clan trait. Ergo no clan trait. Bad in that no HUGE benefit boost from deathskull, good at least in that it doesnt' effectively make mek guns "death skull only".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: What mek gun is the closest anologue to Zzap gunz? I don't have the index and I don't want to use it, so big gunz are out.
Also, do Mek Gun krew actually do anything, or are they just wound counters? I don't have the codex yet, just brainstorming.
Kustom mega kannon would probably be. Energy, can hurt itself.
And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)
K, I'll just proxy my scratch built zzap kannons as KMK then. No idea what to do with krew though. I have better uses for 12 gretchin (10 from the box set, 2 I built from riggers) than sitting near cannons. Maybe I can say the mek gunz krew are wearing purple, so they are being sneaky.
And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)
A situation where you can see a part of a Grot within 1" of the Gun and not even a pixel from the Gun (which is huge in comparison) are few and far between. But RAW you probably can't use them as counters. Best to OK with your opponent to be on the safe side. That said I'm going to use the Grots as wound counters whenever possible.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: K, I'll just proxy my scratch built zzap kannons as KMK then.
No idea what to do with krew though. I have better uses for 12 gretchin (10 from the box set, 2 I built from riggers) than sitting near cannons.
Maybe I can say the mek gunz krew are wearing purple, so they are being sneaky.
just use them as wound counters for the mek guns, put 6 round take one of everytime it takes a wound
And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)
A situation where you can see a part of a Grot within 1" of the Gun and not even a pixel from the Gun (which is huge in comparison) are few and far between. But RAW you probably can't use them as counters. Best to OK with your opponent to be on the safe side. That said I'm going to use the Grots as wound counters whenever possible.
Yes they are not going to be common but TFG's can make mountain out of anthil. Just something to be mindful.
I won't use them as wound counters as I have 6 per box to spread between 4. Not nearly enough!
And actually not even wound counters. They just are there. Eat space for harder to hide LOS/trickier to cram lots of space. If you don't have 5 and keep them regardless of wounds suffered you can expose yourself to accuse of abusing model removal for your benefit when rules don't give you right to remove models(and thus make footprint smaller)
A situation where you can see a part of a Grot within 1" of the Gun and not even a pixel from the Gun (which is huge in comparison) are few and far between. But RAW you probably can't use them as counters. Best to OK with your opponent to be on the safe side. That said I'm going to use the Grots as wound counters whenever possible.
Yes they are not going to be common but TFG's can make mountain out of anthil. Just something to be mindful.
I won't use them as wound counters as I have 6 per box to spread between 4. Not nearly enough!
You could do what I did for my scratch built big gunz and just use gretchin from runtherd + grotz set. It does look kind of odd as they are all using guns rather than spanners, but it'll get the job done.
Jidmah wrote: Yes. The trukks' open topped rule makes the tankbustas count as advancing, but the tankbustas don't care.
No throwing grenades though.
So, truck full of tankbustas can advance into 24" range, fire volley at full BS and then after shooting advance 13" +d6+1" back out of LoS for 1cp?
How very interesting.
Nope, it's evil sunz speed freeks units only. So unless the Chinork got that keyword you can only use it with the buggies, deffkoptas or warbikers. That is unfortunate because jump-shoot-jumping a trukk full of tankbustas out of LoS would've been a real nice tool to have in the arsenal
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You could do what I did for my scratch built big gunz and just use gretchin from runtherd + grotz set.
It does look kind of odd as they are all using guns rather than spanners, but it'll get the job done.
I could but kind of defeats the point of trying to kitbash cheaply. You would need 2 boxes so with my style 91e(well 10% off from FLGS). Okay still 23e per gun rather than 36e but you still pay basically 7e per gun.
I assume y'all are talking about the Drive-by-Krumpin' strategem? I don't have my BRB handy, but the core rules on advance specify "Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase." (emphasis mine).
Are we assuming that since we are making "a move as if it were in the Movement phase" that it can also choose to advance? I hope that's the case, but that looks like a bit of a stretch to me (unless I'm missing something?).
Automatically Appended Next Post: A question on nob weapons -- do we have to choose either the "pick 2" or the "pick 1", or can we do both on the same model? (time to strap an extra choppa on the back of my boss nob with big choppa and kombi-skorcha!)
Coh Magnussen wrote: I assume y'all are talking about the Drive-by-Krumpin' strategem? I don't have my BRB handy, but the core rules on advance specify "Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase." (emphasis mine).
Are we assuming that since we are making "a move as if it were in the Movement phase" that it can also choose to advance? I hope that's the case, but that looks like a bit of a stretch to me (unless I'm missing something?).
Yea we're talking about this strat and you're right in that it looks dubious with the BRB only. It was FAQ'd for a Tyranid power I believe that explained that the advancing modification on your movement is used for movement outside of the movement phase.
So let's say you're doing it on warbikes, because they advance normally. You roll D6 to advance. Add 1 because Evil Sunz. So let's say you end up with a +5" to your movement stat as you rolled a 4. That then modifies your movement for the movement phase to be 14" (base movement) +2" (Evil Sunz Speed Freeks) +5" (advance result). So your movement is now 21" This same movement characteristic stays even if you move again outside of the movement phase. You don't even roll to advance again as you only advance once per round.
and WAAAAAAGHHHH!!!!! 
utside the defkilla watrike this will be the best melee unit out of the new buggies.BM or 
Anyway, seems worth it to me, reliable 2 damage is a biggie in my book and you get bumped up to 4A and 
)
missing the other trukk, which ALSO happened to be in range of his Riptide (Oohhh nooo) and just close enough to me 'ard boyz. 
. then Jumpa did Gorks' Work and sent those gits flying through the warp and right next to Sandy, also taking a mortal wound doing it.
