http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/11/40k-rumors-codex-space-marines-2-0.html

Basically, Primaris Marines get something like assault Terminators, medium transport, Big turret variant of the Repulsor, one-man fast vehicles, and a small flyer.

Do they have a source of any repute? Also, could you please post here if there’s any other details they’ve rumoured?

I’m loath to give another click to those clickbait oxygen thieves...

Porting the "content" over:

There’s a new set of rumors on the Marine’s next codex slated for 2019. Take a look Battle Brothers:

If there is one thing that GW does like clockwork – it is updating the Space Marine Codex in the middle of an edition. We’ve been hearing for months that there is a new set of Space Marine models coming and the rumormongers have chimed in today with an updated set of information.

Industry Professionals Say: New Codex Space Marines Slated for 2019

Will include a number of new kits for Primaris Marines:
- A unit of high speed 1-man vehicles
- A Primaris Medium Transport
- A Primaris small Flyer
- A Primaris vehicle variant with new large turret weapon options
- A Primaris Heavy Infantry unit with Assault Terminator weapon equivalents

Thoughts The first three are very similar to what has been out there in the past 3-6 months. The high speed unit could be bikes, jetbikes, jump packs or something really funky. The Medium Transport I would guess is a anti-grav Rhino equivalent. There is a little more detail on the size of the flyer – it being on the small size of things – I guess the Storm Talon is the smallest SM flyer right now. Unless the flyer is a transport I’m unsure of exactly what would make it a “Primaris” vehicle (outside of fluff)? The vehicle variant with new turrets would most likely be a kit based on the Repulsor. It has a large turret ring and could accommodate a lot of different big weapon options up top. It could fill the role of anything from the Whirlwind, to Predator, to Vindicator, or even exotics like the Hunter/Stalker or Thunderfire cannon – Whatever GW thinks is most important for the Primaris vehicle range. The Heavy Infantry unit would give Primaris only armies a much needed Assault unit – and I would assume is based on the Mk.X Gravis Armor. I would think something on the lines of Assault Terminators with +1W and perhaps slightly improved weapon statlines.

No word on when in 2019, but previous rumors placed this in the first half of the year. If these kits pan out – this would be a major expansion of the Primaris line, making it much less reliant of the classic marine model range.

Much obliged BrookM.

Most interesting IMO is the mention of an Assault Terminator-style unit. I’m hoping GW eventually replaces the entire line with Primaris equivalents so I can use my existing OldMarine Templars army as counts-as Primaris with sweet rules, and Terminators are an important step.

Now before we dismiss Taco Bell out of hand never forget that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Once day in their case, but still, it can happen.

I wonder if regular Marines would be getting any new units with... oh who am I kidding? It's Primaris all the time forever from now on.

Like I said in the Vigils thread, the motto for this new book should be "Just drop the pretence already". Call it Codex: Primaris Space Marines and be done with it.

If there is one thing that GW does like clockwork – it is updating the Space Marine Codex in the middle of an edition.

Uh... When have GW ever updated the space marine codex in the middle of an edition...?

So far as the 'details'... That's pretty much the list I would come up with if I was working from the assumption that Primaris will feature more strongly in the next codex, and so will need more unit types to fill in the gaps. If I wasn't nt considering development budget, at least.

If seems unlikely that GW would release a bike unit, a flyer, a tank, and a new Repulsor variant all in the same codex release.

Yeah, guess what these items all are? Wish list items practically everyone that has been including Primaris Space Marines in their Space Marines armies have been asking for since the codex. Literally everything on this list. The only thing missing from the list is a Primaris Techmarine. Otherwise zero surprises on this list.

And you know how I know it is fake? There is no way GW is passing up the opportunity to charge $35 for a single character model. No Primaris Techmarine or another character reborn as a Primaris Marine (the new Assault Terminator unit would lead me to believe Lysander, but the high-speed 1-man vehicles could also me Ko'sarro Khan) pretty puts the nail in the coffin of this rumor.

Think about it. When is the last time there was a codex release with new models not named Imperial Knights where there was not a $30+ character model releases alongside the models?

The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

I guess these are the same 'industry professionals' that said a Primeork Ghazzy was coming with codex, that there'd be a sprue to turn other vehicles into Orky ones and that there'd be rules for looted vehicles in codex Orks.

Its click bait. As is typical of BOLS, which is a shame because their podcast content is actually relatively decent.

So they're saying Primaris are going to get:

- Bikes
- Rhinos
- Stormtalons
- Predators
- Assault Terminators

Queue sarcasm. It's not like that's a big revelation, of course those are going to be coming. And of course GW is going to do a moneygrab through a new Codex if they get the chance.

I personally like the look of Primaris models but I hate the way they've been rolled out. They would have been better received if they were just rolled into existing marine lines without all the stat changes / incompatibilities. Hearing that they are upgrading the rest of the line is just going to lead to more friction.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

You seem to be unclear on what 'rumour' means...

Would love to believe it, BUT:

Thats 5 significant sized kits- thats bigger than the Ork release, Custodes release and im pretty sure its on par with the death guard release if you don't count demon, character and easy build models (which i think is fair and also if this rumor is true- characters will be coming alongside).

It would effectively be a "faction" sized release, but if they are gonna do it then it makes sense to just smash it out in either Q1 or Q3 like they did this year with custodes and soul wars to bump the half yearly figures up.

It's rumour yes. It's zero credibility.

I can say rumour "necron codex coming up january". It would have zero credibility without any evidence nor would it be even have trustworthy source as I have no true rumours to my track record(nor false ones either. I don't hear things in advance so can't give any rumours).

These are rumours yes but no credibility. For credibility either needs some sort of concrete evidence or trustworthy source(ie one that actually has shown he gets real info rather than makes up junk)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Process wrote:
Would love to believe it, BUT:

Thats 5 significant sized kits- thats bigger than the Ork release, Custodes release and im pretty sure its on par with the death guard release if you don't count demon, character and easy build models (which i think is fair and also if this rumor is true- characters will be coming alongside).

It would effectively be a "faction" sized release, but if they are gonna do it then it makes sense to just smash it out in either Q1 or Q3 like they did this year with custodes and soul wars to bump the half yearly figures up.

Orks got 6 kits. And these are marines aka their cash-cows. So on that count not unbelievable.

While this may be a rumour, I expected a new Primiars wave this year already, following the release waves of Stormcast Eternals in AoS.
They got a new batch of miniatures together with a Battletome each year for the last 3 years with small expansions in between.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

I guess these are the same 'industry professionals' that said a Primeork Ghazzy was coming with codex, that there'd be a sprue to turn other vehicles into Orky ones and that there'd be rules for looted vehicles in codex Orks.

Its click bait. As is typical of BOLS, which is a shame because their podcast content is actually relatively decent.

Hi. I'm BoLS Industry Professionals.

You may remember me from such rumours as 'Abaddon in Black Fortress', and 'Slaanesh is being dropped'.

Well, I hope this is true.

This looks a lot like a wishlist. As such, I tend to agree that it is a bunch of stuff I'd like to see too.

But otherwise it's just saying "marines will get some new stuff at some point" - which is highly likely but not particularly useful as a rumour goes.

If this is true, good.

Giving Primaris marines quad's instead of bikes would be pretty pimp imho. Imagine a squad of 5 Quadrunners armed with twin bolt rifles and fragstorm launchers.

That'd be 15 T5 wounds with a 3+ save and quite a few shots on a mobile platform, powerfist on the searg. Quads would only have 12" instead of the normal 14" for bikes though.


The primaris assault termies would probably just be some variation of Inceptors with melee weapons like I suggested in another thread.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Giving Primaris marines quad's instead of bikes would be pretty pimp imho. Imagine a squad of 5 Quadrunners armed with twin bolt rifles and fragstorm launchers.

That'd be 15 T5 wounds with a 3+ save and quite a few shots on a mobile platform, powerfist on the searg. Quads would only have 12" instead of the normal 14" for bikes though.


The primaris assault termies would probably just be some variation of Inceptors with melee weapons like I suggested in another thread.

You just described fast Aggressors with your quads. I would rather have them with a Las-Talon on the back with a Twin bolt rifle.

Is there such thing as a BOLS rumour tracker?

I imagine such a thing would e very interesting reading

My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

Ignoring everything but also thinking it does make sense. New marine codex can fix where they are now. Those and chaos marines were some of the first books out and they've fallen behind the curve somewhat so updating and replacing them does make sense

You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

 Motograter wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

Agree. I have no idea what the order of release would be. Probably most money maker, or most popular armies first. This could change the order from what the codex releases were.

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

If they ever want Primaris to be a feasible replacement for space marines....and they might...they need to add some of the flexibility and modeling/gameplay options that marines have been spoiled with since time immemorial.

as they are now, Primaris Marines work as a way to get new players - ideally, young kids with fathers or older relatives who play - into the hobby smoothly. They are recognizable as the Space Marines their relative has, but they have lore where they're bigger and stronger and new. They're easy to build, easy to paint, and designed to be almost impossible to build "wrong" because of the sheer amount of crap every unit has loaded onto it.

But for a player used to constructing their lists and tweaking their wargear and customizing their characters, the sort of thing where you think "This is Warhammer 40,000", primaris marines sorely lack depth. 1-2 very minor squad-wide weapon swaps (Do I want this kind of bolter or that kind of bolter? do I want this kind of plasma gun or that kind of plasma gun?) is something that a Tau or Necron player would be used to, but it totally loses the "these are your dudes" human appeal that old marines had. Just look at the variation you can draw from a basic tactical squad of space marines versus a squad of primaris intercessors - I have currently 3 different marks of armor to choose from, plus the Blood Angels and Space Wolves tactical boxes, with dozens of totally unique heads, limbs, shoulderpads, armor styles and weapon styles. All to create models that are identical in the game, just totally customized to look exactly like I want them to look.

Intercessors will look the same, unless you go out of your way to buy them bits from smallmarine kits to customize them, or sculpt them stuff wholesale out of greenstuff like GW did with the fancy purple candle marines.

There's no reason Games Workshop can't re-create marines in a new scale. But replacing them with the current edition of Primaris Marines will massively reduce the existing appeal of marines.

 Motograter wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

They've also shown a jump pack character for csm that will come during the coming campaign

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

Primaris are effectively Rowboat's Aspect Warriors

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

That would make these for 2020 though. Sisters come late 2019

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

You seem to be unclear on what 'rumour' means...

And you are struggling with the word "news" by the looks bud.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Hi. I'm BoLS Industry Professionals.

You may remember me from such rumours as 'Abaddon in Black Fortress', and 'Slaanesh is being dropped'.

I love this. Two of my favourite rumours those. Some of BoLS Industry Professionals best work.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

Or the fluff could state that Marines are being upgraded to Primaris as they can, and that Primaris is as different from Marines as an Exarch is more skilled than an Aspect Warrior.

Between some of your Tacs having been upgraded to Primaris, some of them getting fancy new Super Boltguns, etc, and the relatively smaller gap between Primaris and non-Primaris, that they then use the same stats on the table.

Suddenly, you can now put Primaris into Dev and ASM squads. Or give an "Intercessor" squad 7 Dudes, a Sarge, a Special, and a Heavy, and maybe they *can* fit into rhinos!

Then, suddenly, OldMarines "go away" from the standpoint of those that want them gone, while OldMarines "never go away" from the standpoint of those that don't.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

If that is indeed the case, I hereby dub the newcomers "Primar-est Marines" for their extra, uber, OTT, Prime-y-ness.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

40k lore has always been pretty tenuous and mutable. i remember when suddenly there was Tau. Then suddenly Necrons. Then the reveal that a nigh unstablable cosmic entity called the Deceiver was behind everything ever pulling the strings. Then 1 codex later its "JK lol" the Necrons beat up the Deceiver long ago and imprisoned him and he is not behind anything ever.

 Motograter wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

My suspicion is that we will see a Black Legion and Emperor's Children codex next year considering the fact they are bringing new units and are updating the CSM kit. A new CSM kit means the old Noise Marine upgrade kits won't work anymore so cue Emperor's Children, especially with Slaanesh Daemons getting some love.

I think GW is planning to Squat old marines altogether. They want to sell models, and they won't sell any to guys who have all the marines they need, so old marines have to go. As evidence, look at the recently upscaled Marneus Calgar to Primaris. They will eventually do that with most of the heroes. And before you say "that will never happen",go talk to Fantasy players about the change from mass combat to skirmish, or even better, talk to Brettonian and Tomb Kings players who were told they would be able to play, but are now no longer tournament official (their army lists were dropped after the 1st Generals book).

I don't personally find small marines slowly disappearing all that unfortunate. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up shifting the entire range to 30k at some point.

Personally they should of been upfront about it and just made them the new space marine models and that they restructured post Guilliman's return with some new gear. It would of been a less bitter pill if GW set the narrative on the change over rather than allow the community to create elaborate nefarious conspiracy theories.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Motograter wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My FLGS owner said that once GW finishes the final codex for GSC and Sisters, that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models. Not sure what his source is, but he has been right in the past. He did work for GW back in the day, like 6 years ago, so he may still have contacts there. This could be the beginning of that. So could we expect all the armies to follow the same release schedule as the codex? If I recall, I beleive SM was the first codex to drop in 8th.

Then Chaos SM, GK? (haha), Mechanicus, Deathguard, IG, etc...

To be fair there will be codexes between gsc and sisters. It's not like they'll just stop from Jan/Feb to october/ November without making new codexes.

As for models regular chaos is in line for an update. We've seen the sorcerer backpack and the one that went up yesterday could be an apostle

My suspicion is that we will see a Black Legion and Emperor's Children codex next year considering the fact they are bringing new units and are updating the CSM kit. A new CSM kit means the old Noise Marine upgrade kits won't work anymore so cue Emperor's Children, especially with Slaanesh Daemons getting some love.

I'd say world eaters are a shoe in as well. Too much talk about Angron the last few months not to be something

 Motograter wrote:
I'd say world eaters are a shoe in as well. Too much talk about Angron the last few months not to be something

Yeah, there's no way we got a TS codex and won't get a WE codex. And Hastings told us long ago that a 40K Angron model is on the way.

The only reason I'd believe this rumor is because GW seems to have such a boner pushing these Primaris down our throats. The only thing that's gotten more attention than Nurgle and Stormcast the past couple years has been Primaris.

Will it happen? Who knows? Just like all the rumors of Abaddon, Fulgrim, and/or Angron, it's probably just a matter of time. GW works on things years in advance and tends to release things in waves. A wave for 40k. A wave for Age of Sigmar. A wave of specialist games.

2019 is going to be a big year, and releasing more Space Marines will help offset the risk of releasing Genestealer Cult, Sisters of Battle, and other things that may not make them as much money.

And at the end of the day, us old nerds are not GW's target demographic. Their target are the kids ages 10-15 that come into the store and think Space Marines look really, really cool. Primaris are bigger, easier to paint, easier to build, and just look better than the old tactical marines to a younger mind that doesn't yet have the appreciation for Mark V heresy armor. Of course they're going to want to give those younger players more things to buy, more reasons to get into the game, more ways to expand their Ultramarines army. That's what makes GW the money.

So, like I said, it's probably just a matter of time. They've probably already made a half dozen kits like these for Primaris and are just waiting for a good time to release them. Remember, in the Summer of 2019, GW is going to need something big to help prop up their profits like the 8th edition release did in 2017 and the Age of Sigmar 2.0 (and imperial knights and kill team) did in 2018. A fresh slew of Space Marines could possibly do that in 2019, coupled with some other big releases.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

I guess these are the same 'industry professionals' that said a Primeork Ghazzy was coming with codex, that there'd be a sprue to turn other vehicles into Orky ones and that there'd be rules for looted vehicles in codex Orks.

Its click bait. As is typical of BOLS, which is a shame because their podcast content is actually relatively decent.

Hi. I'm BoLS Industry Professionals.

You may remember me from such rumours as 'Abaddon in Black Fortress', and 'Slaanesh is being dropped'.

For what it's worth, the person could've just glimpsed the dude having a topknot and went straight to Abigail.

Let's not pretend that old Space Marine models are the preference of a more refined palate. GW could release true-scale, updated MK V marines and I doubt very many people would try to argue that the old ones were somehow superior except from a standpoint of nostalgia and personal taste.

I'd also say that GW has a vested interest in balancing their customer churn rate by catering to new players while doing their best to retain new ones. Nothing is ever going to please everyone, but it doesn't seem likely that the bodily proportions of old marines are the tie that bound older players to the franchise in the first place. I've been in an on again, off again relationship with 40k since 2nd Edition and I personally consider GW's newer models an improvement over their older ones in nearly every way, except maybe poseability.

It's a common sentiment, but I just wish they updated marines and left the Primaris fluff in the bin where it belongs.

BoLS "Industry Professionals" That said Primaris getting more stuff of some kind is a pretty safe bet. The main problem IMO is going to be the size of the damn Codex if they don't split the two SM types into separate books.

 Dynas wrote:
... that they plan to go through all the armies and update out of range models...

Out of range models? Can you elaborate on what you mean?

These rumors basically are word for word the Primaris marine wish list

I'll believe this when I see it

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

The 40k lore has ALWAYS been tenuous and mutable. People only complain about the near constant retcons and 'hey I found this STC in an old boot' and 'I was dead/alive/both the whole time!' when they don't like them.

text removed.

Please do not bypass the language filter like this.
Reds8n

GW brass are blowing bubbles. I will wait for the updated old range. Quadbikes? Not as if old marine bikes couldnt see improvements first. 20 yrs for an updated ork buggy we get nonopose on a base. Now primies get buggies in a year. Way to alienate your base geedubs. Pass.

If (or when) the Primaris get bikes, they obviously need to be grav bikes to go with their grav tanks.

Note, the rumors did not say quad bikes. They stated small, fast, one-man vehicles. For all we know it could be a land Speeder variant with one crewman.

 jeff white wrote:
GW brass are blowing bubbles. I will wait for the updated old range. Quadbikes? Not as if old marine bikes couldnt see improvements first. 20 yrs for an updated ork buggy we get nonopose on a base. Now primies get buggies in a year. Way to alienate your base geedubs. Pass.

A. you're not GW's base. GW's base is younger kids that are getting into the hobby that they can hook onto buying plastic miniatures for a long time to come. GW's base eventually grows out of being GW's base because they become salty nerds like the rest of us.
B. There's no B. I just wanted to make that point. If you think that you're part of GW's base, you're not.

drbored wrote:

A. you're not GW's base. GW's base is younger kids that are getting into the hobby that they can hook onto buying plastic miniatures for a long time to come. GW's base eventually grows out of being GW's base because they become salty nerds like the rest of us.
B. There's no B. I just wanted to make that point. If you think that you're part of GW's base, you're not.

drbored, if you think GW's base is not people who cling to heroic scale models because they believe them to be a matter of refined taste, you're probably right. I think you're kind of overestimating the solidarity that exists for marinelets, here. I was once one of those kids who got hooked into the hobby on the basis of 2nd Edition Blood Angels and I would never look back from the newer models.

I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike. And their fluff appeals to kids who want their thing to be the biggest and bestest and haven’t yet developed a taste for nuance, character and flaws. Marines +1 who are are faster and stronger and bigger with no apparent drawbacks, youngsters love that sort of stuff.

robbienw wrote:
I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike. And their fluff appeals to kids who want their thing to be the biggest and bestest and haven’t yet developed a taste for nuance, character and flaws. Marines +1 who are are faster and stronger and bigger with no apparent drawbacks, youngsters love that sort of stuff.

Oh good, you're here now, too.

Guys, there is nothing refined or nuanced about heroic scale. There is nothing that makes it a sophisticated choice for the discerning hobbyist. You're not a more mature individual for preferring old marines to Primaris.

Seriously. Just stop.

My comment about nuance was to do with fluff, not models.

I don’t like the Primaris because of their design aethsetic, it’s got nothing to do with maturity or refination or nuance. I think they are chunky, ugly and oversized.

I much prefer the old marine aethsetic. I’d rather have heroically proportioned old marines than ugly Primaris marines who are a bit less heroic scaled.

Make old marines in a less heroic scale and I will buy them of course. Make a poor re-imagining and I won’t.

Other opinions are available.

I don’t think you can deny thought that Primaris marines, particularly inceptors and aggressors and big, chunky and a bit toylike.

Adults arguing over what toys are more mature. If our toys were mature they'd vibrate.

robbienw wrote:

I don’t think you can deny thought that Primaris marines, particularly inceptors and aggressors and big, chunky and a bit toylike.

Considering that they have way less cartoony proportions than the old marines, they're much less toylike.

Crikey can people stop conflating this and that in order to score internet points? If someone's evidently talking about the fluff, don't start with "hurp durp but models better". If someone's evidently talking about the design/aesthetic, don't start with "hurp durp but proportions".

I'd say parts of the Primaris range - parts, not all - are cartoonish and toylike. Things like Aggressors, Inceptors, and the New Bigger Bolter Because Biggest Is Bestest weaponry get filed along with Centurions and Chibihawks to my mind.

Nevermind...

 Yodhrin wrote:
Crikey can people stop conflating this and that in order to score internet points? If someone's evidently talking about the fluff, don't start with "hurp durp but models better". If someone's evidently talking about the design/aesthetic, don't start with "hurp durp but proportions".

But if people argued against the points you made rather than the points they wish you'd made, how will they win the argument?

I'll be honest while I do not think this will happen in 2019 another marine codex is inevitable.

What I actually believe is that it's not a codex but a supplement. Makes much more sense then a full on codex. I wouldn't say I'd be mad about there being a new codex, but I'd be a little frustrated. I also don't believe I'd buy it either and I get it via other means

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
You had me at "Marine Rumors" and almost lost me at "BoLS".

Having said that, I hope that this is where we get a lot more Primaris stuff, to the point where they're given a LOT more options, both within squads and with new troops and vehicles.

I don't expect to see options within squads. Not to the Tactical Squad levels.

The Primaris seem to be organized on the old Legion makeups, where squads are specialized. The lore on the Hellblasters even says as much.

I've got tins of soup in my cupboard that are older than the "lore" on Primaris, and since the "lore" only exists to flog the new models while they boil the proverbial frog, there's no reason they can't change it on a whim. Rowboat can just put out Codex Astartes 2: Codex Harder with "new" Primaris Tacticool, Facepuncher, and Gunshooter squads. I'm not arguing they will per se, at least not any time soon, but the 40K "lore" has become a pretty tenuous and mutable thing these days so it shouldn't really be taken as indicative of what direction things may go in the future.

40k lore has always been pretty tenuous and mutable. i remember when suddenly there was Tau. Then suddenly Necrons. Then the reveal that a nigh unstablable cosmic entity called the Deceiver was behind everything ever pulling the strings. Then 1 codex later its "JK lol" the Necrons beat up the Deceiver long ago and imprisoned him and he is not behind anything ever.

Tau and necrons were being hinted at in the fluff long before they made a showing, with necrons in particular having a fairly long history way back into 2nd, primaris literally came from nowhere.

Newcrons however... urgh, they came from nowhere

As long as we get a new Primaris Lieutenant, I'll be happy.

I love the pose of Primaris Lieutenant #3, with the wistful look of Lieutenant #11, but with the weapon load-out of #9.

Kinda like I used to be able to do with the single Space Marine Captain kit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Crikey can people stop conflating this and that in order to score internet points? If someone's evidently talking about the fluff, don't start with "hurp durp but models better". If someone's evidently talking about the design/aesthetic, don't start with "hurp durp but proportions".

But if people argued against the points you made rather than the points they wish you'd made, how will they win the argument?

Not that I have a dog in the fight, but it's pretty hard to do when posts like this blur the lines quite readily.

My comment about nuance was to do with fluff, not models.

I don’t like the Primaris because of their design aethsetic, it’s got nothing to do with maturity or refination or nuance. I think they are chunky, ugly and oversized.

I much prefer the old marine aethsetic. I’d rather have heroically proportioned old marines than ugly Primaris marines who are a bit less heroic scaled.

Make old marines in a less heroic scale and I will buy them of course. Make a poor re-imagining and I won’t.

Other opinions are available.

I don’t think you can deny thought that Primaris marines, particularly inceptors and aggressors and big, chunky and a bit toylike.

 Luciferian wrote:
Oh good, you're here now, too.

Guys, there is nothing refined or nuanced about heroic scale. There is nothing that makes it a sophisticated choice for the discerning hobbyist. You're not a more mature individual for preferring old marines to Primaris.

Seriously. Just stop.

I don’t think anyone but you is talking about nuance in models. The point is that, as people mature, they start to learn that a character’s flaws are what make them interesting, not their being the best at everything everywhere always. Primaris being ‘Marines but bigger and better and faster and better at everything’ is a large - if not dominant - part of why they’re so maligned by the player base. It’s also what makes them appeal to the younger crowd whose tastes have not yet grown past it.

It’s also why 30k tends to attract the older fans; the focus there is not on Marines and Primarchs being golden heroes that are awesome, but rather on them being humans with flaws and prejudices and petty rivalries. That’s what makes MkV armour nuanced and interesting - not the models, which only a mother could love, but that it’s a cobbled-together hodge-podge of whatever bits were on hand at the time and ultimately inferior to its predecessor. It speaks to the desperation and confusion of the Horus Heresy setting.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Crikey can people stop conflating this and that in order to score internet points? If someone's evidently talking about the fluff, don't start with "hurp durp but models better". If someone's evidently talking about the design/aesthetic, don't start with "hurp durp but proportions".

I've done no such thing. You have by putting words in my mouth, because at no point in time did I remark on which models were better. I'm merely responding to sentiments like, "[Primaris] look better than the old tactical marines to a younger mind that doesn't yet have the appreciation for Mark V heresy armor," and, "I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike," and calling them silly, because they are.

kombatwombat wrote:

I don’t think anyone but you is talking about nuance in models. The point is that, as people mature, they start to learn that a character’s flaws are what make them interesting, not their being the best at everything everywhere always. Primaris being ‘Marines but bigger and better and faster and better at everything’ is a large - if not dominant - part of why they’re so maligned by the player base. It’s also what makes them appeal to the younger crowd whose tastes have not yet grown past it.

It’s also why 30k tends to attract the older fans; the focus there is not on Marines and Primarchs being golden heroes that are awesome, but rather on them being humans with flaws and prejudices and petty rivalries. That’s what makes MkV armour nuanced and interesting - not the models, which only a mother could love, but that it’s a cobbled-together hodge-podge of whatever bits were on hand at the time and ultimately inferior to its predecessor. It speaks to the desperation and confusion of the Horus Heresy setting.

Damn. This must mean the guard players must be most mature of us all, as they don't need their toy soldiers to be even a little bit supermen!

kombatwombat wrote:

I don’t think anyone but you is talking about nuance in models. The point is that, as people mature, they start to learn that a character’s flaws are what make them interesting, not their being the best at everything everywhere always. Primaris being ‘Marines but bigger and better and faster and better at everything’ is a large - if not dominant - part of why they’re so maligned by the player base. It’s also what makes them appeal to the younger crowd whose tastes have not yet grown past it.

It’s also why 30k tends to attract the older fans; the focus there is not on Marines and Primarchs being golden heroes that are awesome, but rather on them being humans with flaws and prejudices and petty rivalries. That’s what makes MkV armour nuanced and interesting - not the models, which only a mother could love, but that it’s a cobbled-together hodge-podge of whatever bits were on hand at the time and ultimately inferior to its predecessor. It speaks to the desperation and confusion of the Horus Heresy setting.

In this thread, I am talking about the models, and only the models. I don't like Primaris fluff, either, I'm just able to separate the models from the fiction behind them. I'm not the one who is conflating nuance in fluff and the physical models themselves; even you have done that in this post. I get that people associate models with lore that they like or that struck a chord with them, and that their models become a representation of that lore. Still, it's silly to turn that personal attachment into a vehicle of reproach for models which represent lore you don't like, or worse, for newer or younger players just for not being as familiar with the setting and what it represents to you.

I am not arguing that Horus Heresy lore is not more nuanced than Dark Imperium lore, I'm arguing that a personal feeling of resentment brought on as a result of Dark Imperium lore is inappropriate to extend to models and especially to other players, whether they're young or old.

 Luciferian wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:

I don’t think anyone but you is talking about nuance in models. The point is that, as people mature, they start to learn that a character’s flaws are what make them interesting, not their being the best at everything everywhere always. Primaris being ‘Marines but bigger and better and faster and better at everything’ is a large - if not dominant - part of why they’re so maligned by the player base. It’s also what makes them appeal to the younger crowd whose tastes have not yet grown past it.

It’s also why 30k tends to attract the older fans; the focus there is not on Marines and Primarchs being golden heroes that are awesome, but rather on them being humans with flaws and prejudices and petty rivalries. That’s what makes MkV armour nuanced and interesting - not the models, which only a mother could love, but that it’s a cobbled-together hodge-podge of whatever bits were on hand at the time and ultimately inferior to its predecessor. It speaks to the desperation and confusion of the Horus Heresy setting.

In this thread, I am talking about the models, and only the models. I don't like Primaris fluff, either, I'm just able to separate the models from the fiction behind them. I'm not the one who is conflating nuance in fluff and the physical models themselves; even you have done that in this post. I get that people associate models with lore that they like or that struck a chord with them, and that their models become a representation of that lore. Still, it's silly to turn that personal attachment into a vehicle of reproach for models which represent lore you don't like, or worse, for newer or younger players just for not being as familiar with the setting and what it represents to you.

I am not arguing that Horus Heresy lore is not more nuanced than Dark Imperium lore, I'm arguing that a personal feeling of resentment brought on as a result of Dark Imperium lore is inappropriate to extend to models and especially to other players, whether they're young or old.

I have to say, it feels like there are two completely separate issues here.

People who enjoy Warhammer Stories and people who enjoy Warhammer models.

Most people I play with in my local area know basically nothing about the stories and character outside what is told to them in conversation or from their codex. That's not why they're in the FLGS each weak spending money. They couldn't care less what the writing for Abbadon is like, just how does the model look, and how does it play on the table top.

And a note on the 30K lore stuff. I saw the exact same kinds of arguments there, that I'm seeing right here in this thread. I was in that community for close to two years and they aren't some "godly more mature" group of fans.

 Luciferian wrote:
I am not arguing that Horus Heresy lore is not more nuanced than Dark Imperium lore, I'm arguing that a personal feeling of resentment brought on as a result of Dark Imperium lore is inappropriate to extend to models and especially to other players, whether they're young or old.

I’ll repost your post that I responded to in full:

 Luciferian wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike. And their fluff appeals to kids who want their thing to be the biggest and bestest and haven’t yet developed a taste for nuance, character and flaws. Marines +1 who are are faster and stronger and bigger with no apparent drawbacks, youngsters love that sort of stuff.

Oh good, you're here now, too.

Guys, there is nothing refined or nuanced about heroic scale. There is nothing that makes it a sophisticated choice for the discerning hobbyist. You're not a more mature individual for preferring old marines to Primaris.

Seriously. Just stop.

I’ve bolded for emphasis. robbienw discussed nuance and refinement in the fluff. You’re the one who then conflated nuanced fluff with nuanced models. In my reply to this post I pointed out that you were the one conflating them. Nobody but you is saying anything about non-Primaris models being nuanced.

Also, you’re kidding yourself if you think Primaris aren’t heroic scale.

 Togusa wrote:


I have to say, it feels like there are two completely separate issues here.

People who enjoy Warhammer Stories and people who enjoy Warhammer models.

Most people I play with in my local area know basically nothing about the stories and character outside what is told to them in conversation or from their codex. That's not why they're in the FLGS each weak spending money. They couldn't care less what the writing for Abbadon is like, just how does the model look, and how does it play on the table top.

And a note on the 30K lore stuff. I saw the exact same kinds of arguments there, that I'm seeing right here in this thread. I was in that community for close to two years and they aren't some "godly more mature" group of fans.

It is not even that you care about one or the another, but that you're able to compartmentalise. Sure, I think that the Primaris fluff is terrible, almost everybody does. But the models are gorgeous, and if I'm planning a modelling project, then I am obviously going to use the best looking models available, and that's the Primaris.

kombatwombat wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I can see the point about Primaris being made to appeal to young beginners. They are big, chunky and toylike. And their fluff appeals to kids who want their thing to be the biggest and bestest and haven’t yet developed a taste for nuance, character and flaws. Marines +1 who are are faster and stronger and bigger with no apparent drawbacks, youngsters love that sort of stuff.

Oh good, you're here now, too.

Guys, there is nothing refined or nuanced about heroic scale. There is nothing that makes it a sophisticated choice for the discerning hobbyist. You're not a more mature individual for preferring old marines to Primaris.

Seriously. Just stop.

I’ve bolded for emphasis. robbienw discussed nuance and refinement in the fluff. You’re the one who then conflated nuanced fluff with nuanced models. In my reply to this post I pointed out that you were the one conflating them. Nobody but you is saying anything about non-Primaris models being nuanced.

Also, you’re kidding yourself if you think Primaris aren’t heroic scale.

Again, just because I used some of the same language that he did, does not mean I was conflating the lore and the models. "Big, chunky and toylike," and "easy to like for undeveloped minds that haven't reached an appreciation for Mk V Heresy armor," both imply that old marine models are in fact more refined and nuanced than Primaris models. Big, chunky, toylike and undeveloped are practically antonyms of refined and nuanced. Comparing one thing to another unfavorably by using such language implies the opposite qualities in the thing it's being measured against.

You, robbienw and the other user all conflated lore with models by evaluating them based not only on their physical characteristics, but the lore that accompanies them as well as the demographic you assume would be most attracted to such a combination of parts. All three of you have Primaris conceptually wrapped up in this holistic package that is extremely difficult to isolate into its constituent parts for the purpose of discussion. I don't care to debate the merits of Primaris lore because I don't think it has any, so I never addressed it, though it's certainly not the worst or most "immature" lore that has ever come out of GW. I was responding to the explicit sentiment that GW is betraying its old fanbase to a bunch of dumb kids by making more realistically proportioned space marine models which just so happen to have some throwaway lore written for them to introduce them to the setting.

Heroic scale refers to models with exaggerated proportions, especially in the hands and head (i.e. old marines)

 Crimson wrote:

It is not even that you care about one or the another, but that you're able to compartmentalise. Sure, I think that the Primaris fluff is terrible, almost everybody does. But the models are gorgeous, and if I'm planning a modelling project, then I am obviously going to use the best looking models available, and that's the Primaris.

This is my point though. Not everyone has the same opinion. For example, I love the new fluff, the new primaris lore and the new post dark millennium stories. But it isn't going to affect my decision to buy new models, nor does it matter with regard to OP's post, which is about a now heavily unlikely rumor about a new codex...

"Just because I said the thing I said, does not mean I meant the thing I said!"

Yeah, this thread is going to locksville real soon...

 Rinkydink wrote:
As long as we get a new Primaris Lieutenant, I'll be happy.

I love the pose of Primaris Lieutenant #3, with the wistful look of Lieutenant #11, but with the weapon load-out of #9.

Kinda like I used to be able to do with the single Space Marine Captain kit.

This is the best post in the whole thread. Thank you!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Just because I said the thing I said, does not mean I meant the thing I said!"

Yeah, this thread is going to locksville real soon...

If it doesn't get locked, it will be no thanks to you.

Hey look, he used the same word as the other guy in a different context, completely disregard what he's saying and pretend that you can only use that word in one context so we can do exactly what we're accusing him of with a complete lack of self awareness!

Abstract thought, where have you gone?

I mean, this isn't a thread lock, but it is a warning to Stay On Topic.

Don't try to out-grognard each other. The only winning move in that game is not to play.

I think GW has a bunch of new Primaris stuff up its sleeve, and it needs to be introduced with rules somehow. I don't see any other good way to do it.

 Lorek wrote:
I mean, this isn't a thread lock, but it is a warning to Stay On Topic.

Don't try to out-grognard each other. The only winning move in that game is not to play.

I think GW has a bunch of new Primaris stuff up its sleeve, and it needs to be introduced with rules somehow. I don't see any other good way to do it.

I could see an add-on codex like Angels of Death book from 7e. That way the models can be added, but the new book isn't required if a person doesn't want to add them.

 Luciferian wrote:
All three of you have Primaris conceptually wrapped up in this holistic package that is extremely difficult to isolate into its constituent parts for the purpose of discussion.

You’re putting words in our mouths and creating opinions for us to validate your argument. I, for instance, think the lore around Primaris being Marines+1 with no drawbacks lacks any nuance, but I think the MkX armour is a more refined version of Mks IV and VIII. I really like the models in MkX armour including PriMarneus, and my biggest hope for the rumoured Marine Codex 2.0 is an Intercessor unit with chainswords and heavy bolt pistols. If the rumoured Assault Terminator equivalents have armour akin to PriMarneus I’ll be very happy, and I’ll be ecstatic if we get a Primaris Crusader Squad with Chainswords.

Heroic scale refers to models with exaggerated proportions, especially in the hands and head (i.e. old marines)

And, most notably, exaggerated weapons. A Reiver’s ‘knife’ is about the size of a shortsword. The Power Swords wielded one-handed by Primaris Lieutenants, Sergeants and Captains are massively exaggerated - a one-handed sword should be a similar length to your arm and about as wide as three fingers. Intercessor ‘rifles’ are the size of heavy machine guns. They may be closer to truescale, but Primaris are still firmly heroic scale.

I'm looking forward to some nice looking, well executed Primaris vehicles.

Ones that don't look like they started out as Regular Marine Vehicles and then someone just went crazy with the bits from the leftover weapons sprues box.

I seriously hope they don't do something ridiculously stupid, like making all these new Primaris units only usable in a new, Primaris-only codex.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I seriously hope they don't do something ridiculously stupid, like making all these new Primaris units only usable in a new, Primaris-only codex.

I hate to be that guy, but I hope they hurry up and just shift everything to primaris. This slow transition fluff murder is too much for me.

Sooner we can get to just primaris the sooner we can pretend this never happened and Marines are the correct scale.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

You seem to be unclear on what 'rumour' means...

And you are struggling with the word "news" by the looks bud.

Not really, in fact, I recognize why they are both present in the title of the section, in that it is permissive of A) News - substantiated or official announcements via first to 3rd party to be taken as fact and discussed as such, and B) Rumours - unsubstantiated or unofficial tid-bits to be taken with a grain of salt and speculated upon as such. Guess I did learn something moderating this place for 6 years after all .

Seriously though, rumours by definition are unsubstantiated and not verified. You were complaining that there was no evidence for the OP of this thread, you are right, but it is still allowable on this forum exactly on that basis. I.e - don't break your head being upset about it because it is allowed.

Good Dakka'ing to you sir!

I just hope not all primaris vehicles are grav based. I kinda liked how crude and primitive imperial vehicles were. Like crude ww2 inspired smoke belching machines. Gw is making things too slick and sci fi with the primaris. The lack of variety in the basic armor pattern is also a bummer cause past mks all had subtle variations.

 Luciferian wrote:

drbored wrote:

A. you're not GW's base. GW's base is younger kids that are getting into the hobby that they can hook onto buying plastic miniatures for a long time to come. GW's base eventually grows out of being GW's base because they become salty nerds like the rest of us.
B. There's no B. I just wanted to make that point. If you think that you're part of GW's base, you're not.

drbored, if you think GW's base is not people who cling to heroic scale models because they believe them to be a matter of refined taste, you're probably right. I think you're kind of overestimating the solidarity that exists for marinelets, here. I was once one of those kids who got hooked into the hobby on the basis of 2nd Edition Blood Angels and I would never look back from the newer models.

I think people are misinterpreting my intention. I have zero attachment to the Tactical Marines and their scale and I'm not fanboy-ing over the Primaris stuff. I'm just laying down the facts as I see them.

My local GW manager told it to me straight. GW's target audience is not the older nerd that's already got an army. That's all there is to it.

 Thargrim wrote:
I just hope not all primaris vehicles are grav based. I kinda liked how crude and primitive imperial vehicles were. Like crude ww2 inspired smoke belching machines. Gw is making things too slick and sci fi with the primaris. The lack of variety in the basic armor pattern is also a bummer cause past mks all had subtle variations.

Me too. Grav quad bikes or not everything about the range screams He-man on more steroids. The new rumored dex will cement this portrait i would imagine so that anyone looking for more depth will find themselves in the kiddy pool. Again. Way to alienate a part of your base gw. A part that has money and will increasingly point their kids to different systems and companies out of concern to spare them the eventual and inevitable corporate disloyalty as gee dubs sells them down the river to parasite on the naivete of the next generation...

 jeff white wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
I just hope not all primaris vehicles are grav based. I kinda liked how crude and primitive imperial vehicles were. Like crude ww2 inspired smoke belching machines. Gw is making things too slick and sci fi with the primaris. The lack of variety in the basic armor pattern is also a bummer cause past mks all had subtle variations.

Me too. Grav quad bikes or not everything about the range screams He-man on more steroids. The new rumored dex will cement this portrait i would imagine so that anyone looking for more depth will find themselves in the kiddy pool. Again. Way to alienate a part of your base gw. A part that has money and will increasingly point their kids to different systems and companies out of concern to spare them the eventual and inevitable corporate disloyalty as gee dubs sells them down the river to parasite on the naivete of the next generation...

Again, what base do you think you're a part of? I assure you that GW cares not for the people that aren't going to buy their product anyway. They're making their product for a younger generation, and for every grumpy nerd that steers their kids away to a different hobby there will be five more parents that know nothing about 40k but they're happy to see that their son or daughter is interested in something that is creative and social and that isn't drugs.

They dont need to redo the codex, campaign books and expansion books are already planned to do so.

Even in 7th we had the Crusade of Fire, Angels of Death, Traitors Hate, Traitor Legions, etc that added content (and grabbed some cash).

drbored wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
I just hope not all primaris vehicles are grav based. I kinda liked how crude and primitive imperial vehicles were. Like crude ww2 inspired smoke belching machines. Gw is making things too slick and sci fi with the primaris. The lack of variety in the basic armor pattern is also a bummer cause past mks all had subtle variations.

Me too. Grav quad bikes or not everything about the range screams He-man on more steroids. The new rumored dex will cement this portrait i would imagine so that anyone looking for more depth will find themselves in the kiddy pool. Again. Way to alienate a part of your base gw. A part that has money and will increasingly point their kids to different systems and companies out of concern to spare them the eventual and inevitable corporate disloyalty as gee dubs sells them down the river to parasite on the naivete of the next generation...

Again, what base do you think you're a part of? I assure you that GW cares not for the people that aren't going to buy their product anyway. They're making their product for a younger generation, and for every grumpy nerd that steers their kids away to a different hobby there will be five more parents that know nothing about 40k but they're happy to see that their son or daughter is interested in something that is creative and social and that isn't drugs.

Why do you feel a reflexive need to spit bile? I have added you to my ignore list which now consists of well.. You. I kindly ask you to do the same for me going forward.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
They dont need to redo the codex, campaign books and expansion books are already planned to do so.

Even in 7th we had the Crusade of Fire, Angels of Death, Traitors Hate, Traitor Legions, etc that added content (and grabbed some cash).

That's my thought as well. Why would they release a codex again when they can nickel and dime us to death by splitting all the stuff between five books?

 Luciferian wrote:
Let's not pretend that old Space Marine models are the preference of a more refined palate. GW could release true-scale, updated MK V marines and I doubt very many people would try to argue that the old ones were somehow superior except from a standpoint of nostalgia and personal taste.

Thing is primaris marines are not true scale for space marines. They are true scale for primaris marines who are supposed to be taller than space marines but you can't make space marine models taller without running this little issue that the custodian models are perfect size compared to old marines that they are scaled correctly. Head taller than space marines. Primaris being same size means primaris marines cannot be true scale for space marines.

drbored wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
GW brass are blowing bubbles. I will wait for the updated old range. Quadbikes? Not as if old marine bikes couldnt see improvements first. 20 yrs for an updated ork buggy we get nonopose on a base. Now primies get buggies in a year. Way to alienate your base geedubs. Pass.

A. you're not GW's base. GW's base is younger kids that are getting into the hobby that they can hook onto buying plastic miniatures for a long time to come. GW's base eventually grows out of being GW's base because they become salty nerds like the rest of us.
B. There's no B. I just wanted to make that point. If you think that you're part of GW's base, you're not.

GW's base are grognards. You think GW is adding new units instead of resculpting old ones because all the 14 year olds already own all the existing models? You think GW is fleshing out Rogue Trader era concepts like GSC, AdMech and Men of Iron for little timmy who's never heard of them?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
GW's base are grognards. You think GW is adding new units instead of resculpting old ones because all the 14 year olds already own all the existing models? You think GW is fleshing out Rogue Trader era concepts like GSC, AdMech and Men of Iron for little timmy who's never heard of them?

You think little timmy has never heard of Rogue Trader era concepts like GSC, AdMech and Men of Iron, despite FLGS and GWS being frequented by older people who will make sure little timmy hears about them right after he first discovers space marines? (that is going on the assumption that little timmy even discovers space marines first, rather than coming across, say, AdMech and thinking those look cool)

On a side note, does anyone get the feeling as though little timmy does not actually exist outside of the minds of the older generations? (Oh lord, give it a few years and I'll be counted amongst those from the viewpoint of the young ones. )

But to bring the entire thing back on topic for a bit, I thought we agreed that BoLS rumours without tangible evidence can basically be dismissed out of hand?

It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I'd just like to point out I haven't conflated everything, I'm able to asses things on different factors. Regardless of the target demographic and the lore, I find primaris models ugly and unappealing. Its as simple as that.

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

No, they warned profits would slow not drop, big difference. And with the unprecedented growth they've been going through, that's a wise position to take. You have no idea how the codex/models sold, so that's pure speculation. As for FW, they've been spread thin with numerous specialist games to support now. It's no longer the heresy only show it's been for previous years.

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I think you could be right. Back on topic, I think this is why we are only seeing rumours of a the next wave of major releases now. I think they had primaris wave 2 scheduled for Q1 2018, but they decided to do some major re-working based on the....mixed reception of the primaris look, which is why we are only hearing of models now. It will probably be 2 years between when the first major release and the next one, and this is why you only got a small handful of chapter specific and alternate lieutenants this year.

I suspect when wave 2 makes it out, it will be nicer looking models than wave 1. I'm expecting the will have kept the size of primaris of course, but the models will be more streamlined and will stay around the Intercessor look/be brought back closer to the classic marine aethesetic, and there wont be any more units that are like reivers, agressors and inceptors.

It was mentioned by FW that the Fires of Cyraxus IA book was cancelled because the fluff in it would have to be largely rewritten to be in line with the dark imperium era.

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

Is this supposed to be a rumour? Do you have some kind of source for this, or is this just speculation? What the heck?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
They dont need to redo the codex, campaign books and expansion books are already planned to do so.

Even in 7th we had the Crusade of Fire, Angels of Death, Traitors Hate, Traitor Legions, etc that added content (and grabbed some cash).

That's my thought as well. Why would they release a codex again when they can nickel and dime us to death by splitting all the stuff between five books?

Wasn't one of the things GW recently said that they didn't like having so many different books like they did last edition? I'll have to try and find that. I think it was in the Vigilus thread.

tneva82 wrote:

Thing is primaris marines are not true scale for space marines. They are true scale for primaris marines who are supposed to be taller than space marines but you can't make space marine models taller without running this little issue that the custodian models are perfect size compared to old marines that they are scaled correctly. Head taller than space marines. Primaris being same size means primaris marines cannot be true scale for space marines.

Or Custodians are not as tall than you think. It doesn't say in their codex that they're taller than Space Marines.

 Crimson wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Thing is primaris marines are not true scale for space marines. They are true scale for primaris marines who are supposed to be taller than space marines but you can't make space marine models taller without running this little issue that the custodian models are perfect size compared to old marines that they are scaled correctly. Head taller than space marines. Primaris being same size means primaris marines cannot be true scale for space marines.

Or Custodians are not as tall than you think. It doesn't say in their codex that they're taller than Space Marines.

Scale creep aside, marines are 7 foot and custodians 8 foot.

What I reckon they should do is bring out a Primaris-only codex. Leave the mini-marines for index play.

Primaris marines came about because GW wanted to redo the marine range, which was ~20 years old. That's totally fine by me. Where they went wrong was with the fluff and the load-outs.

Taking away the option to customise characters and squads makes them feel really same-y. Not every captain should have the same gun and maybe a power sword. Squads should take equipment suitable for the mission and enemy they are facing. There should, in general, be more thunder hammers.

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

Yeah, there have been a LOOOOT of attempts to push primaris marines in box sets, board games,even stuff like the Commanders expansion of kill team was primarily to try and staunch the bleeding from the probably poor sales of 40$ primaris character kits.

People that says Primaris are bad because their lore is "Faster, Stronger, Harder" when the full idea of Space Marines (Before fleshing out the Horus Heresy setting with their more human and flawed depiction of marines) is to be the BEST SOLDIERS OF THE GALAXY EVER, and thats why they where so popular.

My god. Primaris are exactly the same as normal marines from a lore perspective, just in relation to normal marines vs the rest of the universe. Their idea is exactly as infantile as it has ever been. And I'll add that I dislike primaris lore, but because is hamfisted and poorly introduced and fleshed out. But not because is more "inmature to catter to younger audiences", that horse is bigger than the cow that was famous yesterday because it couldn't enter a slaugtherhouse.

And I can't understand how Primaris are toylike but custodes or Deathwatch Veterans aren't. Oh yeah because it is another buzzword to put a moral value over people that likes their aesthetic. Disliking primaris is absolutely fine. Disliking them and trying to cover up as them being inmature, infantile, and to catter to younger audiences is no more than a veiled insult at adults that like them.

The real question is will Codex 2.0 be any more functional than codex 1.0

Primaris vrs marines aside the real issue for sales is marines just functionally don't work in 8th edition.

Nothing from strategums to infantry only traits to overcosted damn near the whole book makes playing them a waste of time it's not fun for anyone by necrons or GK as it's not even remotely close games.

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I'm a bit confused as to why or how a Primaris issue has much of an impact on a Talons of the Emperor supplement.

 Galas wrote:
People that says Primaris are bad because their lore is "Faster, Stronger, Harder" when the full idea of Space Marines (Before fleshing out the Horus Heresy setting with their more human and flawed depiction of marines) is to be the BEST SOLDIERS OF THE GALAXY EVER, and thats why they where so popular.

My god. Primaris are exactly the same as normal marines from a lore perspective, just in relation to normal marines vs the rest of the universe. Their idea is exactly as infantile as it has ever been. And I'll add that I dislike primaris lore, but because is hamfisted and poorly introduced and fleshed out. But not because is more "inmature to catter to younger audiences", that horse is bigger than the cow that was famous yesterday because it couldn't enter a slaugtherhouse.

And I can't understand how Primaris are toylike but custodes or Deathwatch Veterans aren't. Oh yeah because it is another buzzword to put a moral value over people that likes their aesthetic. Disliking primaris is absolutely fine. Disliking them and trying to cover up as them being inmature, infantile, and to catter to younger audiences is no more than a veiled insult at adults that like them.

Primaris are aimed towards younger audiences than normal marines not because they're "more toylike" (except for the fact that the whole line is also in Ez-build kits) but because it is harder for a young player to construct their miniatures "wrong."

I don't know if you started young, but I started 40k in 6th grade and boy oh boy was I sad when I got a few games in with my Devastators, who I had built with one missile launcher, one lascannon, one heavy bolter, and one multi-melta.

Also, the fact that their "bigger better stronger" lore is in relation to space marines is most likely so that they appeal to someone whose relative has an existing marine army. It gives them an appeal versus existing space marines.

Being marketed towards younger audiences is not something I use to demean them. That's entirely a smart decision by GW, looking to build their playerbase.

I doubt the lack of options (One of the biggest reasons why I use primaris to build old units) is to catter to younger audiences but because of the No Model No Rules policy.

Why all the new Ork Buggyes have 0 options? They can be build ONE way.
I agree that the EZ line is for younger players, but you have also EZ kits for Deathguard and I doubt that line is for younger audiences. Look at all the options they added on top of the old ones for plague marines.

 Galas wrote:
I doubt the lack of options (One of the biggest reasons why I use primaris to build old units) is to catter to younger audiences but because of the No Model No Rules policy.

Why all the new Ork Buggyes have 0 options? They can be build ONE way.
I agree that the EZ line is for younger players, but you have also EZ kits for Deathguard and I doubt that line is for younger audiences. Look at all the options they added on top of the old ones for plague marines.

The ork buggies are only one way to build because they used a single-sprue design to allow them to maximise the size of the vehicle while minimizing the cost. If they had gone to two sprues (i.e with weapon and figure options) they would have been at a 60$ price point, which we have seen with units like mek gunz and ironstriders is incredibly unpopular with players when the units are only about 60-120 points. I do plastic sprue design for my job all the time, the business reasoning behind those kits was pretty clear - they know the kits are directly competing with one another, so their sales individually will be lower, and they want them at a price point that won't cause consumer aversion, which they've figured out is right around the 45-dollar range for a vehicle kit. so they cram them into a single sprue while making "what you get out of the box" as physically big and satisfying as possible.

Yeah, plague marines are an army designed to appeal to players with existing chaos armies. That's why you have plague marines, the terminator kit, etc with loads of model options like a traditional kit. There are plenty of other kits still coming out with tons of options - stuff for Necromunda, Skitarii, GSC, most likely Sisters.

There is a very good reason why there is no primaris kit that has weapon options that heavily skews the unit towards being "specialized" and why all their options are low-or-no-cost swaps for the whole squad instead of single model upgrades.

If you include single model upgrades, a younger player will usually build their squad with a stupid loadout, or they might make them with too many spcial/heavy weapons so they're not legal to play at all.

News on the Imperial Fist upgrade sprue. Looks like the box set will come with three of the new upgrade sprue.

Each sprue has 3 heads (Helmet, bare, rebreather), a power fist, pistol arm, various shoulder pads and extra doodads.

The fact that it comes with 3 upgrade sprues is interesting. there are only 10 intercessors, and 5 hellblasters in the box.

I think this is a good indicator that the powerfist will be able to be taken by a hellblaster sergeant as well. If that's the case, I would also assume this crosses over to Reivers. Reivers with access to a power fist makes them much more viable in my opinion.

Well if this turns out to be true. Goodbye to old SMs they are gone I think. Primaris forever forwards. Goodbye SM hello slightly taller SMs.

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The rumour has no credibility because it lacks a source or any shred of evidence.

You seem to be unclear on what 'rumour' means...

And you are struggling with the word "news" by the looks bud.

Not really, in fact, I recognize why they are both present in the title of the section, in that it is permissive of A) News - substantiated or official announcements via first to 3rd party to be taken as fact and discussed as such, and B) Rumours - unsubstantiated or unofficial tid-bits to be taken with a grain of salt and speculated upon as such. Guess I did learn something moderating this place for 6 years after all .

Seriously though, rumours by definition are unsubstantiated and not verified. You were complaining that there was no evidence for the OP of this thread, you are right, but it is still allowable on this forum exactly on that basis. I.e - don't break your head being upset about it because it is allowed.

Good Dakka'ing to you sir!

His argument is clearly made up from Procreate

It’s pretty much a given that there will be more Primaris releases, and they will be aimed at replacing old marine options.

I do hope we’ll see Primaris vehicles be mostly grav vehicles - it fits with the “lightning fast” ideal of a hard-striking mobile military force. But I wouldn’t mind seeing a “Mark III” version of a Land Raider instead of the Bradley/Rhino we got.

Also, I believe that unless GW changes once again we’re not going to see the derth of options currently available to marines. I expect Primaris will eventually have up to two options per slot (Elite/Troop/Fast Attack/Flyer/Heavy Support/maybe Superheavy) that consist of one “close” load out and one “ranged” loadout - and that’s pretty much it. I highly expect we’ll start seeing a good number of existing marine kits get retired in the next couple of years as the line gets “streamlined”.

Finally, what we’re seeing from BoLS isn’t rumors - its just speculation and wishlisting.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
They dont need to redo the codex, campaign books and expansion books are already planned to do so.

Even in 7th we had the Crusade of Fire, Angels of Death, Traitors Hate, Traitor Legions, etc that added content (and grabbed some cash).

That's my thought as well. Why would they release a codex again when they can nickel and dime us to death by splitting all the stuff between five books?

Primaris will get their own book anyway. They tacked them onto the normal marines because there wasn't enough there for a stand alone book yet. It will allow them to ignore marines and look less intentional. Basically all the new and updated things in the primaris marine codex while the old stuff just has legacy rules to keep folks with armies happy until they finally bite the bullet. The marine codex has too many data slates as it is, no way they flesh out the primaris line and keep it attached to the old stuff. I doubt it happens tomorrow, but I can easily see them selling 2-3 campaign books with the additional units, then releasing it all into one primaris codex. Why sell 1 more book when they can sell 3.

He'll never live that down.

But I don't care - MAJORTOM11 forever!!!

 cuda1179 wrote:
News on the Imperial Fist upgrade sprue. Looks like the box set will come with three of the new upgrade sprue.

Each sprue has 3 heads (Helmet, bare, rebreather), a power fist, pistol arm, various shoulder pads and extra doodads.

The fact that it comes with 3 upgrade sprues is interesting. there are only 10 intercessors, and 5 hellblasters in the box.

I think this is a good indicator that the powerfist will be able to be taken by a hellblaster sergeant as well. If that's the case, I would also assume this crosses over to Reivers. Reivers with access to a power fist makes them much more viable in my opinion.

I doubt it. The Blood Angels Hellblasters kit comes with two of the Blood Angels Upgrade Sprue, which comes with the Chainsword bit that Hellblasters can't use. The third sprue is just so they can use the shoulder Pauldrons. What is cool is that I will have SIX extra Gravis to do whatever I want with. In this case, it will be to put one set on my other Aggressor squad, and another on a squad of Inceptors. Hopefully the upgrade sprue gets a general release soon though. I need at least another one.

 cuda1179 wrote:

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I'm a bit confused as to why or how a Primaris issue has much of an impact on a Talons of the Emperor supplement.

Exactly what happened to that which was announced less than 6 months ago and has already apparently been dropped because- no reason given.
I'm sure a hell not buying a Kharon Pattern Acquisitor without 40k rules.

 cuda1179 wrote:

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I'm a bit confused as to why or how a Primaris issue has much of an impact on a Talons of the Emperor supplement.

Which also *hasn't* been put on ice like the FoC book, right? Or did I miss something?

 gorgon wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I'm a bit confused as to why or how a Primaris issue has much of an impact on a Talons of the Emperor supplement.

Which also *hasn't* been put on ice like the FoC book, right? Or did I miss something?

Apparently at the vigilous weekender FW let it slip that they have been refocused and they are no longer doingncodex talons

 Galas wrote:
People that says Primaris are bad because their lore is "Faster, Stronger, Harder" when the full idea of Space Marines (Before fleshing out the Horus Heresy setting with their more human and flawed depiction of marines) is to be the BEST SOLDIERS OF THE GALAXY EVER, and thats why they where so popular.

My god. Primaris are exactly the same as normal marines from a lore perspective, just in relation to normal marines vs the rest of the universe. Their idea is exactly as infantile as it has ever been. And I'll add that I dislike primaris lore, but because is hamfisted and poorly introduced and fleshed out. But not because is more "inmature to catter to younger audiences", that horse is bigger than the cow that was famous yesterday because it couldn't enter a slaugtherhouse.

And I can't understand how Primaris are toylike but custodes or Deathwatch Veterans aren't. Oh yeah because it is another buzzword to put a moral value over people that likes their aesthetic. Disliking primaris is absolutely fine. Disliking them and trying to cover up as them being inmature, infantile, and to catter to younger audiences is no more than a veiled insult at adults that like them.

I think you misunderstand most complaints, which is understandable since most of them are hidden amongst a heap of snark and sardonic humor.

The fluff seems so much worse to most folks because] they tried to one up the ridiculous marine background by the exact same route. They didn't retcon or find a clever way of making marines better. They took the part where the literal living God of mankinds finest creations, warring for over 10K years as the best of the best in the galaxy and then hamfisted the part where a walking toaster oven introduced from thin air 10 minutes earlier managed to one up said God Emperors work. Worse yet, not by making their armor and weapons better which would make sense since he is a Martian, but somehow he also perfected the genetics part as well off screen. Then they made the crucial mistake of not taking the process to older chapters and allowing them to update their chapters, nope, instead everyone gets ultrasmurf 2.0 dudes. Oh you play blood angels because you hate vanilla? How about two more scoops of ... Vanilla...

I personally would rather they have just introduced mkX armor and a new bolter so they could possibly give marines a decent weapon for once and used the chance to upscale marines and not crap all over the already dialed to 11 lore by taking it to 12. Instead, not only did they take it to 12, but they managed to make the new marines with the same problems that plagued the old ones game wise. Making it even more awkward when towering intercessors are getting owned by scrubby cultists lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
I doubt the lack of options (One of the biggest reasons why I use primaris to build old units) is to catter to younger audiences but because of the No Model No Rules policy.

Why all the new Ork Buggyes have 0 options? They can be build ONE way.
I agree that the EZ line is for younger players, but you have also EZ kits for Deathguard and I doubt that line is for younger audiences. Look at all the options they added on top of the old ones for plague marines.

Then why were Custodes made customize-able? How about the death guard? Genestealer cult then? The entire no model no rules thing is irelevant when they are literally making the kits from scratch. It would have been smart for them to take 2 minutes and put a few options for sarge and a special weapon in the intercessor kit. Heck, they even could have been lazy and let sarge be an aggressor and the special be a hellblaster and most folks would be happier.

Ice_can wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

GAZ_NZ wrote:
It was announced earlier that gw had warned shareholders of profit drops this year
Brexit combined with lower Primaris sales may cause this
Primaris has caused a small divide in the community
And I expect will cause a smaller than expected profit
With a new codex not selling as well as expected
It may take a longer to generate sales

It is also a reason why the FW supplements got stopped
One book were based on normal marines red scorpion chapter and mechanicus
FW will need to redo it's new Imperial Armour books to Primaris Marines
Delays based on Primaris conflict with older models
Pretty clear

I'm a bit confused as to why or how a Primaris issue has much of an impact on a Talons of the Emperor supplement.

Which also *hasn't* been put on ice like the FoC book, right? Or did I miss something?

Apparently at the vigilous weekender FW let it slip that they have been refocused and they are no longer doingncodex talons

Any source on that? That would be terribly disappointing if true

Well, FW has been completely useless lately. They have bunch of models that do not have 40K rules, and against all reason they refuse to give them such, even though people have requested them for years. It is like they would have adamantly decided to not to sell any models.

 Red Corsair wrote:
The marine codex has too many data slates as it is, no way they flesh out the primaris line and keep it attached to the old stuff.

How would they fluff justify separate army lists when they're already integrated?

GW will keep stuff in the line up as long as it keeps selling enough numbers to justify it. If people keep buying and using tacticals, tacticals won't go away. All the GW lines that folded did so because they weren't selling enough to justify keeping them. SoB were kept alive for how long by its player base, who continued to buy despite sky high prices and an all metal army - Space Marines have no such problems.

At worst some of the SM stuff goes direct order only to save store shelf space. The 8th edition SM codex is already huge, all they have to do is cut some of the excessive background pages, or make it thicker still - GW has no hesitation to do either AFAIK.

At the very least, interest in Tac Marines over Intercessors will make future Intercessors more Tac-like.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, FW has been completely useless lately. They have bunch of models that do not have 40K rules, and against all reason they refuse to give them such, even though people have requested them for years. It is like they would have adamantly decided to not to sell any models.

Yep.

Still got this 500$ of Forgeworld admech that dooooes not have any rules at all, unless I want to play "7th edition but with snobbier powergamers"

the_scotsman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, FW has been completely useless lately. They have bunch of models that do not have 40K rules, and against all reason they refuse to give them such, even though people have requested them for years. It is like they would have adamantly decided to not to sell any models.

Yep.

Still got this 500$ of Forgeworld admech that dooooes not have any rules at all, unless I want to play "7th edition but with snobbier powergamers"

Thankfully I only have one squad of Thallaxii. I ordered them when the Fires of Cyraxus was first announced aeons ago. I contemplated a much bigger order then, and I am really glad that I decided against it.

I think that it is pretty clear that GW is going to replace Space Marines with Primaris Space Marines. They are doing it in a way that will reduce culture shock, piece by piece, but they are doing it. The main problem for them is that because they have put so much emphasis on tournament play with this edition, they have to create Primaris equivalents for Space Marine players. So, for instance, they will have to make Primaris tac, dev, and assault squads with more options to satisfy tournament players. I look forward to all of the new models.

Smellingsalts wrote:
I think that it is pretty clear that GW is going to replace Space Marines with Primaris Space Marines. They are doing it in a way that will reduce culture shock, piece by piece, but they are doing it. The main problem for them is that because they have put so much emphasis on tournament play with this edition, they have to create Primaris equivalents for Space Marine players. So, for instance, they will have to make Primaris tac, dev, and assault squads with more options to satisfy tournament players. I look forward to all of the new models.

I agree, but I think it would have been better to have made the change overnight, rather than piece by piece.
If Tacs, Devs and AM models were replaced with Primaris equivalents (meaning actual Primaris Tacs, Devs and AMs, not the pseudo equivalents that currently exist) than their actually could be less "culture shock" as older player could continue to use the current models with the new models rules, rather then being forced to either buy the new stuff, or accept inferior rules for their old.

But GW wants you to buy new stuff, so here we are. It's hard to not think this is deliberate. Create new units alongside the old to encourage purchases, then slowly stop supporting the old options.
A clear side effect of this is that neither "set" of models has ideal rules. Standard Marines are clearly inferior, while Primaris are clearly overcosted. 15ppm 2W Marines that combine the attributes of both would have produced a far better army

If GW is going to come out with a new Marine Codex, I'd hope they'd just hurry up and rip off the Band-Aid and just have Primaris Marines with Standard Marine options

-

the_scotsman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, FW has been completely useless lately. They have bunch of models that do not have 40K rules, and against all reason they refuse to give them such, even though people have requested them for years. It is like they would have adamantly decided to not to sell any models.

Yep.

Still got this 500$ of Forgeworld admech that dooooes not have any rules at all, unless I want to play "7th edition but with snobbier powergamers"

Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting. Playing "7th but with snobbier power gamers" is what the models were intended for, it's not FW's fault if people bought them for something else and then GW-proper's actions made that no longer possible.

EDIT: And for clarity, I hope they do get 40K 8th rules for people that want to use them that way. I just have no problem with FW putting the creation of those rules behind supporting the systems that they're actually meant to be responsible for.

 Yodhrin wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, FW has been completely useless lately. They have bunch of models that do not have 40K rules, and against all reason they refuse to give them such, even though people have requested them for years. It is like they would have adamantly decided to not to sell any models.

Yep.

Still got this 500$ of Forgeworld admech that dooooes not have any rules at all, unless I want to play "7th edition but with snobbier powergamers"

Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting. Playing "7th but with snobbier power gamers" is what the models were intended for, it's not FW's fault if people bought them for something else and then GW-proper's actions made that no longer possible.

EDIT: And for clarity, I hope they do get 40K 8th rules for people that want to use them that way. I just have no problem with FW putting the creation of those rules behind supporting the systems that they're actually meant to be responsible for.

Respectfully I disagree, it makes the most business sense to open their very expensive and expansive range to a 2nd system to maximise sales. The rules ultimately wouldn't take them all that long in the grand scheme of it. People don't want a full campaign book, just rules for stuff they bought when FW told people they would be able to use them for 40k.

Plus HH was an expansion of 40k and required a 40k rulebook, so your argument to be supporting the system they're responsible for is a little backwards.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting.

What you're missing that FW promised to provide such rules. Fires of Cyraxus was announced years ago. It is pretty reasonable that people are upset that they reneged on that promise, especially if they bough these absurdly overpriced models in anticipation.

 Yodhrin wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, FW has been completely useless lately. They have bunch of models that do not have 40K rules, and against all reason they refuse to give them such, even though people have requested them for years. It is like they would have adamantly decided to not to sell any models.

Yep.

Still got this 500$ of Forgeworld admech that dooooes not have any rules at all, unless I want to play "7th edition but with snobbier powergamers"

Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting. Playing "7th but with snobbier power gamers" is what the models were intended for, it's not FW's fault if people bought them for something else and then GW-proper's actions made that no longer possible.

EDIT: And for clarity, I hope they do get 40K 8th rules for people that want to use them that way. I just have no problem with FW putting the creation of those rules behind supporting the systems that they're actually meant to be responsible for.

Except that I only bought into them because rules that are now what, five years late, were promised.

I only bought models that were shown in the preview images they put out for FoC - Thallax, Vorax, Castellax and Thanatars. Given that the rules and balancing effort Forgeworld put out for their 8th ed indexes can not have taken over a couple of hours for a small team of people to complete (and it shows) you'd think they could slap something together for the promised mechanicum models, even if the marines they were supposed to be paired with are now on the chopping block.

The same way they did for Custodes and titan guard.

Yeah, one thing is to expect 40k rules for things like special legion HH terminator units, but for things FW has promised rules... People is right to be upset.

None of this should come as a surprise to anyone that was honest with themselves during the Primaris reveal.

I’m not saying they’ll never go away, but standard marines are far away from being obsolete (sales wise anyway, maybe they’re terrible in game).

How many kits are there for non Primaris? You’ve got all the infantry models, then DA Vets, BA, SW stuff.
Then, all the vehicles and flyers, several with normal marines in the kit (pilot/gunner etc), so even if Primaris could sudden,y get in..
Then you’ve got all the HQ, Elite character option kits,
Then all the special characters too (while yes some are getting upgraded clearly, there are A Lot).

That’s a lot of kits to just trash.

Then you’ve got 4 marine codexes to just remove all the unit choices when they decide to stop marine sales (even if a new SM one comes now, as it’ll still have both in, so won’t count).

Just a thought I had..

the_scotsman wrote:
The ork buggies are only one way to build because they used a single-sprue design to allow them to maximise the size of the vehicle while minimizing the cost.

Nothing about this statement contradicts what he just said.

the_scotsman wrote:
If they had gone to two sprues (i.e with weapon and figure options) they would have been at a 60$ price point, which we have seen with units like mek gunz and ironstriders is incredibly unpopular with players when the units are only about 60-120 points.

The sprues they come with aren't exactly small, and could have had weapon options without the need for an additional sprue. It has no other options because no other options means no evil 3rd parties making bits for Ork vehicles (which many of them already due, some quite blatantly GW Orks rather than 'Fantasy Orcs in Sci-Fi/in WWII).

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, plague marines are an army designed to appeal to players with existing chaos armies. That's why you have plague marines, the terminator kit, etc with loads of model options like a traditional kit. There are plenty of other kits still coming out with tons of options - stuff for Necromunda, Skitarii, GSC, most likely Sisters.

You're going to say that the three main Plague Marine kits (Power Armour + 2 Terminator kits) are kits with lots of model options? They're mono-pose, with limited options. They're just like the Necromunda kits that have 5 poses and two weapon options per pose (without fiddling with the bits, that is, which is easy given it's plastic). The Deathshroud guys are basically three clampack characters sold in a single box with the amount of options they have. Then all the DG character models are mono-pose zero option kits.

Compare that to the Tzeentch Sorcerer kit, which is far more varied and contains tons of options. Again, this was not done by accident, or because of limited sprue space. They didn't have to make them the way they did. It's the same reason Primaris Marines have 5 bodies doubled per box, and no weapon options.

All of this stems from Chapterhouse.

the_scotsman wrote:
If you include single model upgrades, a younger player will usually build their squad with a stupid loadout, or they might make them with too many spcial/heavy weapons so they're not legal to play at all.

Sorry, but that's a terrible excuse for not including options.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting. Playing "7th but with snobbier power gamers" is what the models were intended for, it's not FW's fault if people bought them for something else and then GW-proper's actions made that no longer possible.

EDIT: And for clarity, I hope they do get 40K 8th rules for people that want to use them that way. I just have no problem with FW putting the creation of those rules behind supporting the systems that they're actually meant to be responsible for.

I agree with you, but FW don't lose anything by putting out 8th Ed rules.

I mean, how hard can it be? Give any characters an aura that re-rolls or adds +1 to something, given every second weapon the ability to cause Mortal Wounds, and copy-paste a warlord table and change the names.

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting.

What you're missing that FW promised to provide such rules. Fires of Cyraxus was announced years ago. It is pretty reasonable that people are upset that they reneged on that promise, especially if they bough these absurdly overpriced models in anticipation.

I was annoyed by what happened with Cyraxus as well, but again, blame GW. GW merged FW in with SG and Middle Earth. GW created a new edition of the game that was such a radical departure in terms of rules it made all their work prior to 8th on FoC invalid and gave them little or no notice. GW created a new edition of the game with such a radical advancement of the fiction that FW felt the need to rewrite that part of the book as well(or were outright ordered to by GW in order to flog Primaris).

Right now FW are doing the right thing given the gak sandwich they were handed: focusing the resources they do have on the things they're directly responsible for like supporting the Specialist Games and Middle Earth SBG and, hopefully, ending the period of relative neglect of the Heresy. If that means folk have to wait a little longer to get a set of rules for a system the models were not made for in the first place, I can sympathise, but IMO it's a price worth paying.

Dudeface wrote:
-snip-

Respectfully I disagree, it makes the most business sense to open their very expensive and expansive range to a 2nd system to maximise sales. The rules ultimately wouldn't take them all that long in the grand scheme of it. People don't want a full campaign book, just rules for stuff they bought when FW told people they would be able to use them for 40k.

It makes the most business sense to ensure the primary system that supports the very expensive and expansive range is healthy and well supported, and they have a lot of work to do before that can be said to be true. And if they rush the rules people will just piss & moan that they're OP/not good enough. I will agree that whenever the rules are done, they shouldn't be held back for publication in Cyraxis if that arriving soon isn't a realistic prospect, they should be put on the website as soon as they're done, but if getting them done to a decent standard means diverting time & resources away from Heresy & Specialist Games they should wait.

Plus HH was an expansion of 40k and required a 40k rulebook, so your argument to be supporting the system they're responsible for is a little backwards.

HH was a distinct setting with its own army lists and special rules that shared the same core mechanics as 40K, and specifically noted that crossover with 40K armies was not supported despite it being technically possible. WHFB shared a lot of the core mechanics of 40K, as did classic 40K and Necromunda, were they all the same game? AoS and 8th share much DNA, same question? Battlefront 2 and Battlefield 5 both use the Frostbite engine to drive them, are they also the same game? Regardless, at the present time Heresy is a distinct system with its own rules and its own rulebook, over which FW has responsibility.

 John Prins wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
The marine codex has too many data slates as it is, no way they flesh out the primaris line and keep it attached to the old stuff.

How would they fluff justify separate army lists when they're already integrated?

Simple. Codex: Ultima Founding. Give all 12 chapter traits in the book, all primaris units, plus some SM units that would make sense in primaris chapter, add a table with unique wargear options for infantry leaders under the relics of each chapter, boom, you're done. Easily fits under standard Codex size.

 Yodhrin wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Still got this 500$ of Forgeworld admech that dooooes not have any rules at all, unless I want to play "7th edition but with snobbier powergamers"

Eh, naw, you have 500$ of Mechanicum created for a different system in a different setting and are upset FW won't take time to give you side-rules to use them in another game and setting. Playing "7th but with snobbier power gamers" is what the models were intended for, it's not FW's fault if people bought them for something else and then GW-proper's actions made that no longer possible.

Yup, "GW-proper's actions". It's not like Alan Bligh wanted to both move HH into 8th edition and publish 8th edition Cyraxus book, either of which would give the AM players playable army.

Oh, wait, he did, and it's the complete muppet who replaced him and decided to both not print finished book and kept HH in old, garbage system who is at fault. Not GW.

 Irbis wrote:
Simple. Codex: Ultima Founding. Give all 12 chapter traits in the book, all primaris units, plus some SM units that would make sense in primaris chapter, add a table with unique wargear options for infantry leaders under the relics of each chapter, boom, you're done. Easily fits under standard Codex size.

That's... actually a great idea.

I like that idea. I support this idea.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Simple. Codex: Ultima Founding. Give all 12 chapter traits in the book, all primaris units, plus some SM units that would make sense in primaris chapter, add a table with unique wargear options for infantry leaders under the relics of each chapter, boom, you're done. Easily fits under standard Codex size.

That's... actually a great idea.

I like that idea. I support this idea.

Hear Hear! Irbis for President

 Galef wrote:

Smellingsalts wrote:
I think that it is pretty clear that GW is going to replace Space Marines with Primaris Space Marines. They are doing it in a way that will reduce culture shock, piece by piece, but they are doing it. The main problem for them is that because they have put so much emphasis on tournament play with this edition, they have to create Primaris equivalents for Space Marine players. So, for instance, they will have to make Primaris tac, dev, and assault squads with more options to satisfy tournament players. I look forward to all of the new models.

I agree, but I think it would have been better to have made the change overnight, rather than piece by piece.
If Tacs, Devs and AM models were replaced with Primaris equivalents (meaning actual Primaris Tacs, Devs and AMs, not the pseudo equivalents that currently exist) than their actually could be less "culture shock" as older player could continue to use the current models with the new models rules, rather then being forced to either buy the new stuff, or accept inferior rules for their old.

But GW wants you to buy new stuff, so here we are. It's hard to not think this is deliberate. Create new units alongside the old to encourage purchases, then slowly stop supporting the old options.
A clear side effect of this is that neither "set" of models has ideal rules. Standard Marines are clearly inferior, while Primaris are clearly overcosted. 15ppm 2W Marines that combine the attributes of both would have produced a far better army

If GW is going to come out with a new Marine Codex, I'd hope they'd just hurry up and rip off the Band-Aid and just have Primaris Marines with Standard Marine options

-

See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

ERJAK wrote:
See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

I think you, like many people online, grossly overestimate how much companies care about - or are even aware of - Internet forum angst.

GW doesn’t care about people burning their armies. They only start to care if the quality of the product drops far enough to damage sales figures. Everything else is fascinating, but irrelevant.

kombatwombat wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

I think you, like many people online, grossly overestimate how much companies care about - or are even aware of - Internet forum angst.

GW doesn’t care about people burning their armies. They only start to care if the quality of the product drops far enough to damage sales figures. Everything else is fascinating, but irrelevant.

kombatwombat wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

I think you, like many people online, grossly overestimate how much companies care about - or are even aware of - Internet forum angst.

GW doesn’t care about people burning their armies. They only start to care if the quality of the product drops far enough to damage sales figures. Everything else is fascinating, but irrelevant.

Why should they care if you already burnt your investment. If you are that angry that you would destroy your own stuff, maybe you should go seek psychiatric help. It makes literally zero sense to do something that will effect the object of your hate for naught.
I hadn't purchased anything from GW in almost 25yrs, 8th came out and changed my mind. So maybe they're doing something right, as I'm not the only recent "returnee" and everyone I speak with has the same feeling. GW is doing right by both the models and gameplay, i just wish they had taken their time with the primaris. It outta been either fast(RIP bandaid off) or drawn out longer than the current plan. Either or, not both, like they're currently doing.

 Irbis wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
The marine codex has too many data slates as it is, no way they flesh out the primaris line and keep it attached to the old stuff.

How would they fluff justify separate army lists when they're already integrated?

Simple. Codex: Ultima Founding. Give all 12 chapter traits in the book, all primaris units, plus some SM units that would make sense in primaris chapter, add a table with unique wargear options for infantry leaders under the relics of each chapter, boom, you're done. Easily fits under standard Codex size.

I'd forgotten about the Ultima Founding. Still all the units would be available to regular marine armies, because SALES REASONS. More Chapter Tactics would be welcome, however.

kombatwombat wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

I think you, like many people online, grossly overestimate how much companies care about - or are even aware of - Internet forum angst.

GW doesn’t care about people burning their armies. They only start to care if the quality of the product drops far enough to damage sales figures. Everything else is fascinating, but irrelevant.

Which is why you should read the WHOLE sentence before you respond. See that part about tanking the company? Yeah, see that wasn't because of youtube videos. That was because people flat out rejected AoS when it was released and it was selling like snow-cones in an ice storm. This combined with the fact that 7th edition 40k was starting to flounder is the ENTIRE reason why they have the 'new GW' thing they've been doing.

I think YOU underestimate how much that whole issue WASN'T just forum angst. Personally, I think if they don't release the GHB for Sigmar, GW may well have been dying a slow death at this point, rather than being the basically the only company in England not tanking from Brexit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

I think you, like many people online, grossly overestimate how much companies care about - or are even aware of - Internet forum angst.

GW doesn’t care about people burning their armies. They only start to care if the quality of the product drops far enough to damage sales figures. Everything else is fascinating, but irrelevant.

kombatwombat wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
See, you say that. But the LAST time GW upended a major part of their product line overnight like that, people put up youtube videos of them burning almost 1000$ of Dark Aelves on youtube. Also just...so many death threats. Oh, and it almost entirely tanked the company until new management decided to go the 'New GW' route.

I think you, like many people online, grossly overestimate how much companies care about - or are even aware of - Internet forum angst.

GW doesn’t care about people burning their armies. They only start to care if the quality of the product drops far enough to damage sales figures. Everything else is fascinating, but irrelevant.

Why should they care if you already burnt your investment. If you are that angry that you would destroy your own stuff, maybe you should go seek psychiatric help. It makes literally zero sense to do something that will effect the object of your hate for naught.
I hadn't purchased anything from GW in almost 25yrs, 8th came out and changed my mind. So maybe they're doing something right, as I'm not the only recent "returnee" and everyone I speak with has the same feeling. GW is doing right by both the models and gameplay, i just wish they had taken their time with the primaris. It outta been either fast(RIP bandaid off) or drawn out longer than the current plan. Either or, not both, like they're currently doing.

They're doing pretty well now. I would say 'right' is a bit of a reach, but no worse than any other major corporation.

And the thing with the army burning isn't about the literal burning of the army. It's a symbolic codification of what the vast majority of the WHFB community was feeling at that time. People who played WHFB rejected AoS violently on release and the system didn't have any real inroads to other markets. There was barely any fluff, the models were gorgeous but hilariously overpriced, and the system was non-functional. They bet the farm on AoS and were on the verge of losing right up until the GHB came out.

They learned there that the slow drip is easier. That's the main point. If you give people a couple of new things that shake up the status quo at a time, they'll grumble but they'll likely get over it. If you flip the table on them they might just leave. THAT was the lesson they took from the launch of AoS. And it has been a very slow drip. It's been a solid year and a half since Primaris dropped and we've barely got the skeleton of an army. There are more different lieutenant sculpts than there are full primaris units. If they go any slower they'll be going backwards.

hm... I just thought of something. Those Primaris scale power fists, I wonder if they'd be large enough, and look right, for Custodes Solarite Gauntlets. Might be handy if that FW Talons book ever comes out.

Is it true that GW has endcapped prior editions with a marine codex refresh? Or could this be a sign that they will refresh or add content to other factions as well drawing out the life of 8th?

 Ysclyth wrote:
Is it true that GW has endcapped prior editions with a marine codex refresh? Or could this be a sign that they will refresh or add content to other factions as well drawing out the life of 8th?

There have been instances of GW releasing two codex's for the same faction in the same edition. In 3rd edition they did it with Chaos, Imperial Guard, and I think Space Marines. And the Chaos Mk2 codex had 4 different printings with 4 slightly different wordings. The only way to tell them apart was to look for the publishing date inside the cover and use the newest one.

GW could release a SM primaris codex, separating primaris SM from regular SM.

They could, but they've given themselves the problem that all the chapters have had Primeris reinforcements, so the demand would be for codex blue primeris, codex wolfy primeris, codex hooded primeris etc

 cuda1179 wrote:


There have been instances of GW releasing two codex's for the same faction in the same edition. In 3rd edition they did it with Chaos, Imperial Guard, and I think Space Marines. And the Chaos Mk2 codex had 4 different printings with 4 slightly different wordings. The only way to tell them apart was to look for the publishing date inside the cover and use the newest one.

Pretty sure they did it with Tau last edition, too? They just changed the colour of the battlesuit on the cover or its plasma blast or something.

Honestly it's kind of annoying when they do this and re-use cover art.

 Kawauso wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:


There have been instances of GW releasing two codex's for the same faction in the same edition. In 3rd edition they did it with Chaos, Imperial Guard, and I think Space Marines. And the Chaos Mk2 codex had 4 different printings with 4 slightly different wordings. The only way to tell them apart was to look for the publishing date inside the cover and use the newest one.

Pretty sure they did it with Tau last edition, too? They just changed the colour of the battlesuit on the cover or its plasma blast or something.

Honestly it's kind of annoying when they do this and re-use cover art.

Technically no. Tau had a 6e codex that was updated with a 7e codex.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Technically no. Tau had a 6e codex that was updated with a 7e codex.

That could be what I'm thinking of.

All I know is I've got two Tau books that I get mixed up all the time.

 Irbis wrote:

How would they fluff justify separate army lists when they're already integrated?

Simple. Codex: Ultima Founding. Give all 12 chapter traits in the book, all primaris units, plus some SM units that would make sense in primaris chapter, add a table with unique wargear options for infantry leaders under the relics of each chapter, boom, you're done. Easily fits under standard Codex size.

There are also suppose to be chapters that are completely Primaris founded after the Indominus Crusade from that main crusade force.

I think primaris armies should have their own distinct traits and stratagems. Primaris introduce tactical differences that are more pronounced than some chapter-to-chapter differences that get distinct rules.

As far as standard SM units in a Primaris army... basic marines are something of a precursor for Primaris, and while Cawl was able to grow them relatively fast in his laboratory, post crusade they're supposedly being produced by less exotic means... meaning Primaris would need a pool of basic marines the same way normal Chapters need scouts; that is just to say that it wouldn't make sense for "completely" Primaris chapters to be made only of primaris marines.

In this way I think we get to where a big difference between standard chapters and primaris chapters would operate; there wouldn't be any of the elite or more veteran standard marine units. There are also loads of vehicles and units with wargear that are relics of the dark age... maintained and irreplaceable, but Primaris don't have that legacy. Most if not all the IC's would likely be primaris. With that in mind you start cutting out many of the standard marine units from the codex.

The entire benefit to this massive vigilus campaign is advancing the fluff for primaris. Making them the new green recruits handicapped them from having a serious legacy on there own. Plus we have Calgar becoming primaris, this is huge, now all characters can and will. By the end of this campaign I fully expect primaris to be the new standard, while little marines become the Bretonnia and Tomb Kings of 40k. They have legacy rules, but it's only there as a courtesy and they never get updates.