This is one of the few movies I have to look forward to with any serious interest. Villeneuve has a great track record so far. Isn't this supposed to start filming in budapest this march? I guess they'll just wheel in dozens of trucks worth of sand n dirt and create their own desert in the backlot....lol. Only bummer is no roger deakins, but the dp from rogue one isn't a bad choice.
Right. And it's likely that the majority of the first film won't be in the desert. Even the second film should have plenty of indoor scenes. I hope we get a little better glimpse of sietch life in these.
I didn't even have to open the article to know who Bautista was playing. So now we have Paul, Lady Jessica, and Rabban cast. Lots of big roles yet to come...
I think david lynch's version suffered from "epic movie syndrome".
I've noticed that in hollywood, there are cases where people try to make the best movie they can, and there are cases where people are out to make an EPIC movie.
Star wars was an effort at making the best movie possible, that was all. Since then every SW movie has had to be an EPIC movie.
Dune was clearly an effort to make an EPIC movie and it kinda collapsed under the the drive to make it one.
Just make the best movie you can, guys, and not overload it with the drive to be an epic movie.
Alpharius wrote: I never watched the SyFy attempt at it - mixed reviews and the few scenes I saw just didn't make me want to put the time in.
Hard to envision how many movies it would take to 'do it right', even if you're only looking to start this whole thing off.
Good be Epic, or it could be a...trainwreck.
The SFC versions were lower budget but were better done.
For one thing, the people in it lkooked like they were desert guerilla warriors. Dry skinned, dusty, bad haircuts, etc. The didn't look like they just stepped out of a sauna/makeup parlor.
Also, there were scenes where Mua'dib challenged the fremen way when it was wrong. When most fremen wanted mua'dib to take leadership, he refused to challenge stilgar to a duel and kill him. He said he would not cut off his own right arm, which is what killing stilgar would be like. He told the fremen if they wanted him to be leader, and stilgar agreed to it, he would accept leadership with stilgar as his right arm, but he would not kill stilgar for leadership because it was fooloish and evil to kill a good man when it wasn't necessary.
I've seen both versions. The Lynch version is the only one I think of when someone says, "Let's watch Dune." It's the only one I've seen again (and again).
The SFC version might be more book accurate, but that doesn't make it better, or even memorable.
Well sure, in the same way that time I had food poisoning was memorable compared to other times I had a simple stomach flu.
There probably aren't many bigger Dune (the book) OR Lynch fans on this forum than me. There are some cool things about the movie, no doubt. But my god it's a bad film, and it misses just about every important point of the book. It's not even really about being faithful to the source material as it is about being a worse story. It's not all Lynch's fault, as he wanted a 3 hour film and the studio wanted an impossible 2 hour cut.
It was the first and last time Lynch attempted this kind of filmmaking. I don't think he did much after that where he didn't have full creative control.
Villeneuve is a genuine fan of the book, and it's his dream project (compared to Lynch having never read the book before being hired to make the film before the rights expired), and I trust that his adaptation will both be a better film and a more recognizable story.
Lynch's film minimizes or ignores basically every important theme from the book...ecology, religion, etc. The ending is the exact reverse of Herbert's message. That's why it's almost impossible to call it a good DUNE film. Lots of elements are there, but the meat of it is missing.
AS for Lynch's Dune, has anyone seen Jodorowsky's(SP) DUNE? It was a movie that was never made.... but I think there is a documentary about the pre-production. It would make Lynch DUNE look tame in comparison.
gorgon wrote: Lynch's film minimizes or ignores basically every important theme from the book...ecology, religion, etc. The ending is the exact reverse of Herbert's message. That's why it's almost impossible to call it a good DUNE film. Lots of elements are there, but the meat of it is missing.
I'm more than happy for the movie to be its own thing. Dune the book is good. Dune the movie is good. Dune the movie not just being a retread of Dune the book is great.
But, yeah, I think we'll all be happy if the new movie is both good and accurate to the book.
I never get that tbh. The whole point of an adaptation is to render the source material in a new medium, and while that almost always requires some changes to account for the chosen medium, if you're not going to at least try and stay true to the source material why bother making an adaptation at all?
I mean, I get why big corporate media outfits like to do it, because they're risk-averse hacks with no regard for anything but money, but if you're a creative? Other than outright satire it just seems like sheer "I can do better than the original" ego tripping.
So joe walker is going to be the editor of the film, he did the editing for sicario,arrival, blade runner 2049. Plus stellan skarskgard is apparently being cast as baron harkonnen. If this does indeed begin shooting in march i'm sure we will get plenty more news over the coming couple months. I'm more interested in who will do the soundtrack.
Yodhrin wrote: I never get that tbh. The whole point of an adaptation is to render the source material in a new medium, and while that almost always requires some changes to account for the chosen medium, if you're not going to at least try and stay true to the source material why bother making an adaptation at all?
I mean, I get why big corporate media outfits like to do it, because they're risk-averse hacks with no regard for anything but money, but if you're a creative? Other than outright satire it just seems like sheer "I can do better than the original" ego tripping.
There are lots of adaptations that differ from their source material for the benefit of Mankind. For example, Nothing Lasts Forever is a forgettable, cheesy airport/dad thriller, but its hugely reinvented adaptation is the greatest Christmas film of all time, Die Hard. The Princess Bride the book is a miserable, spiteful parody of the kinds of stories that The Princess Bride the movie homages and transcended. Starship Troopers the movie was written as a satire that was only fitted retroactively onto the novel because the studio had the rights. Sometimes a work of fiction can inspire a director or writer to create something new, yet not wholly unique. Lynch's Dune has a different feeling from the book, but it's one I happen to like. It's its own thing, and still stands out among science fiction movies.
Yodhrin wrote: I never get that tbh. The whole point of an adaptation is to render the source material in a new medium, and while that almost always requires some changes to account for the chosen medium, if you're not going to at least try and stay true to the source material why bother making an adaptation at all?
I mean, I get why big corporate media outfits like to do it, because they're risk-averse hacks with no regard for anything but money, but if you're a creative? Other than outright satire it just seems like sheer "I can do better than the original" ego tripping.
There are lots of adaptations that differ from their source material for the benefit of Mankind. For example, Nothing Lasts Forever is a forgettable, cheesy airport/dad thriller, but its hugely reinvented adaptation is the greatest Christmas film of all time, Die Hard. The Princess Bride the book is a miserable, spiteful parody of the kinds of stories that The Princess Bride the movie homages and transcended. Starship Troopers the movie was written as a satire that was only fitted retroactively onto the novel because the studio had the rights. Sometimes a work of fiction can inspire a director or writer to create something new, yet not wholly unique. Lynch's Dune has a different feeling from the book, but it's one I happen to like. It's its own thing, and still stands out among science fiction movies.
Die Hard isn't called Nothing Lasts Forever and wasn't "sold" as an adaptation very much(if at all) at the time. Starship Troopers is an outright satire, which I mentioned. I've never seen the Princess Bride, but if it claims to be an adaptation of the book and then isn't, it's a bad adaptation, just as Lynch's Dune is a bad adaptation.
Because what you're describing there, that's an homage, not an adaptation. The Orville is an homage, not an adaptation of Star Trek. The MCU is an adaptation of the comics, despite often making quite a lot of changes. The difference is in the intent to honour the source material, and whether it is claimed to honour the source material - which as far as I'm concerned, includes using the title of the original.
If Lynch had made David Lynch's Crazy Worm Rider Dudes, then he would be entitled to have the work considered entirely on its own merits, and might even have been given credit by fans of the books for making an homage to them. But he didn't, he made a Dune movie that had very little to do with Dune, and so he made a bad adaptation. It could be the greatest scifi movie ever made(it is not), and it would still be a bad adaptation of Dune.
Thargrim wrote: So joe walker is going to be the editor of the film, he did the editing for sicario,arrival, blade runner 2049. Plus stellan skarskgard is apparently being cast as baron harkonnen. If this does indeed begin shooting in march i'm sure we will get plenty more news over the coming couple months. I'm more interested in who will do the soundtrack.
Nice casting there. I tend to think we'll see a proper calculating Baron in this one instead of whatever Kenneth McMillan was supposed to be in the Lynch film. The Syfy Channel Baron was much closer to the mark.
JohnHwangDD wrote: WRT The Princess Bride, wasn't the book an adaptation of the movie screenplay? That is, there never was a full TPB book that the movie was based on.
I think the book came out half a decade before the movie. Either way, they were both written by the same person, apparently in a different headspace. The novel is about a man in a loveless marriage and snarks at the very concept of true love, while the movie plays it much more straight and upbeat. I'm somewhat afraid that the screenplay was written from a place of deep cynicism, but I prefer to think the writer overcame his issues instead.
JohnHwangDD wrote: WRT The Princess Bride, wasn't the book an adaptation of the movie screenplay? That is, there never was a full TPB book that the movie was based on.
I think the book came out half a decade before the movie. Either way, they were both written by the same person, apparently in a different headspace.
Right, but no "full" version exists as alluded to in the introduction. Just the short version that got filmed. It's been a long time since I've read TPB, and just as long since I've read Dune.
Still, with the way that things are now, Dune is ripe for a remake into a giant media franchise spanning several full-length movies, with all of the licensing and merchandise to follow. And unlike other projects, it's not like there isn't a wealth of material to work with. The Dune series is a HUGE amount of text.
I think only the original trilogy is potentially suited for a movie franchise, however. The second trilogy gets...trippier. It's not general audience-friendly, IMO. The prequel books are what they are. Some of that might be more like TV miniseries material.
gorgon wrote: I think only the original trilogy is potentially suited for a movie franchise, however. The second trilogy gets...trippier. It's not general audience-friendly, IMO. The prequel books are what they are. Some of that might be more like TV miniseries material.
OTOH, it's not like the Hobbit didn't somehow transform into THREE giant movies.
JohnHwangDD wrote: WRT The Princess Bride, wasn't the book an adaptation of the movie screenplay? That is, there never was a full TPB book that the movie was based on.
I think the book came out half a decade before the movie. Either way, they were both written by the same person, apparently in a different headspace.
Right, but no "full" version exists as alluded to in the introduction. Just the short version that got filmed. It's been a long time since I've read TPB, and just as long since I've read Dune.
uh, what do you mean no full version? The novel within the novel is entirely fictional. The book by S. Morgenstern is as real and complete a text as Lovecraft's Necronomicon: it only exists as collection of "good parts".*
* Not counting the various "Necronomicon" facsimiles that have been written since the 70's. I've got the Simon Necronomicon and the Hays Necronomicon, and while complete books neither of them feels authentic to what Lovecraft intended.
Still, with the way that things are now, Dune is ripe for a remake into a giant media franchise spanning several full-length movies, with all of the licensing and merchandise to follow. And unlike other projects, it's not like there isn't a wealth of material to work with. The Dune series is a HUGE amount of text.
I would love to see a Dune Cinematic Universe that covered the entirety of Frank Herbert's canon.
gorgon wrote: I think only the original trilogy is potentially suited for a movie franchise, however. The second trilogy gets...trippier. It's not general audience-friendly, IMO. The prequel books are what they are. Some of that might be more like TV miniseries material.
OTOH, it's not like the Hobbit didn't somehow transform into THREE giant movies.
Sure. They could, for instance, use material from Paul of Dune between their treatments of Dune and Dune Messiah. I'm not sure how many movies Chalamet is signed for though, or how long he's interested in doing Dune movies. There's a real world time factor at work with these franchises.
I still think it's likely that at best we get coverage of the first three books on film. A lot depends on the box office for parts 1 and 2 of Dune.
JohnHwangDD wrote: WRT The Princess Bride, wasn't the book an adaptation of the movie screenplay? That is, there never was a full TPB book that the movie was based on.
I think the book came out half a decade before the movie. Either way, they were both written by the same person, apparently in a different headspace.
Right, but no "full" version exists as alluded to in the introduction. Just the short version that got filmed. It's been a long time since I've read TPB, and just as long since I've read Dune.
uh, what do you mean no full version? The novel within the novel is entirely fictional. The book by S. Morgenstern is as real and complete a text as Lovecraft's Necronomicon: it only exists as collection of "good parts".
Still, with the way that things are now, Dune is ripe for a remake into a giant media franchise spanning several full-length movies, with all of the licensing and merchandise to follow. And unlike other projects, it's not like there isn't a wealth of material to work with. The Dune series is a HUGE amount of text.
I would love to see a Dune Cinematic Universe that covered the entirety of Frank Herbert's canon.
Yeah, the unabridged "S. Morgenstern version" with ALL of the parts - it's mentioned, but doesn't exist.
I hope Dune 1 does well enough to get more of the story told.
I only mentioned it in reference to a "Dune cinematic universe", in which they would be the prequels, despite their different tone than the actual Herbert books..
Put me on the list of people that hated the Lynch's version, but adores the two miniseries (I even love the concept of the first miniseries as almost a 'recorded' theatrical production.)
However, I've always had a bit of an unpopular opinion when it comes to Dune.
Dune is ultimately a romance, it's a tale about love. First with Leto and Jessica, then Paul and Chani.
The instigating factor of the series is Jessica and Leto's love for each other. This, I think, is the heart of the book.
It's interesting to hear it's going to be two movies. I think it's a good thing, since a story like this really needs room to breathe. Even in the novel, there are some pacing issues after the timeskip, with a lot of plot-critical events happening in rapid succession and not really getting explored.
First (potential) casting that I'm not sure about. I think she has a good look for the role, but I'm not sure about her acting chops. Especially considering some of the talent that will be around her.
She feels a little young for Chani. But then again, the cast does.
It kind of feels like a Romeo and Juliet vibe almost. Which, to be fair, is probably more indicative of the books, than the 20 somethings in the miniseries.
Yeah, I think they're definitely looking at younger characters like in the books, just probably parking them around 18 rather than 15. Both Chalamet and Zendaya can easily play 18 year olds.
I approve of this approach. I think their youth is an important part of the story. I'm not sure about this particular actress, but I'll certainly give her a chance.
I just want to know how a new Dune movie or series would stand apart from what has been done previously. Lynch's Dune strayed greatly from the source material but kept the spirit and had a good amount of style and grandeur. The mini-series had a less grandeur but the style and most of the story were true to the book.
My main peeve about translating Dune into movie/TV is that in all versions, apparently including this new one, the actor playing Paul is way too old for the part. He's around 14 at the beginning of the book and only ages a few years by the end. Kyle MacLachlan was 25 when he played Paul and Alec Newman was 29. Timothée Chalamet will be 24 when production of the new adaptation begins so he's the youngest of the three but still ten years older than Paul is supposed to be. Still, I suppose Timothée does have the advantage of looking younger than the others, at least.
Breotan wrote: I just want to know how a new Dune movie or series would stand apart from what has been done previously. Lynch's Dune strayed greatly from the source material but kept the spirit and had a good amount of style and grandeur. The mini-series had a less grandeur but the style and most of the story were true to the book.
My main peeve about translating Dune into movie/TV is that in all versions, apparently including this new one, the actor playing Paul is way too old for the part. He's around 14 at the beginning of the book and only ages a few years by the end. Kyle MacLachlan was 25 when he played Paul and Alec Newman was 29. Timothée Chalamet will be 24 when production of the new adaptation begins so he's the youngest of the three but still ten years older than Paul is supposed to be. Still, I suppose Timothée does have the advantage of looking younger than the others, at least.
The problem is finding a kid actor to play a part that requires so much would be hard. I wouldn't want it to feel like a stranger things type kid in space, and we all remember how annoying anakin was in TPM. Going for a more mature actor is a smart decision IMO, will save us from being as annoyed by the character.
Breotan wrote: I just want to know how a new Dune movie or series would stand apart from what has been done previously. Lynch's Dune strayed greatly from the source material but kept the spirit and had a good amount of style and grandeur. The mini-series had a less grandeur but the style and most of the story were true to the book.
My main peeve about translating Dune into movie/TV is that in all versions, apparently including this new one, the actor playing Paul is way too old for the part. He's around 14 at the beginning of the book and only ages a few years by the end. Kyle MacLachlan was 25 when he played Paul and Alec Newman was 29. Timothée Chalamet will be 24 when production of the new adaptation begins so he's the youngest of the three but still ten years older than Paul is supposed to be. Still, I suppose Timothée does have the advantage of looking younger than the others, at least.
Lynch's Dune *looks* like Dune, feels like Dune. That it's not exactly the same as the book is fine, because a lot of written stuff doesn't work as film. It's actually an improvement over the book.
Paul shouldn't be a 14-year-old. 18 is better. OTOH, consider Ender's Game. In the book, how old is Ender? Yeah. Good luck making child soldiers in space work on screen.
Breotan wrote: I just want to know how a new Dune movie or series would stand apart from what has been done previously. Lynch's Dune strayed greatly from the source material but kept the spirit and had a good amount of style and grandeur. The mini-series had a less grandeur but the style and most of the story were true to the book.
My main peeve about translating Dune into movie/TV is that in all versions, apparently including this new one, the actor playing Paul is way too old for the part. He's around 14 at the beginning of the book and only ages a few years by the end. Kyle MacLachlan was 25 when he played Paul and Alec Newman was 29. Timothée Chalamet will be 24 when production of the new adaptation begins so he's the youngest of the three but still ten years older than Paul is supposed to be. Still, I suppose Timothée does have the advantage of looking younger than the others, at least.
Yeah, they're probably going to move the age of Paul and Chani up to about 18 so it's not awkward when they start making babies. And he can easily play a 'movies 18'.
Spoiler:
They even look like they could be father and son there.
Lynch's movie ditched almost every important theme from the book -- ecology, religion, etc. -- and added stuff like weirding modules that detracted from the story (the Fremen were formidable because Paul and Jessica trained them and exploited their beliefs to launch a holy war, not because they had a magic technology). The main antagonist of the book -- a highly intelligent, manipulative schemer -- was turned into a buffoon. And Paul being a superhuman that can make it rain quite literally gets the whole story wrong. We could go on and on.
It's not a matter of a medium-to-medium translation losing things...it's that the movie just makes things different or wrong, and it's a poorly-told story with all the cuts. People are certainly allowed to like it. The cast is good and there was a lot of good design work. But there are really good reasons why everyone involved with this keeps saying that it's an adaptation of the book and not a 'remake' of Lynch's film.
The miniseries was a better effort, no doubt. There were certainly things that bugged me (sietches being in the open air?), but that's starting to edge into 'nerd stuff' territory, and it should be given credit for trying to include the right themes. What this film can do is tell the story more accurately like the miniseries, but have the budget like the Lynch film to do everything better.
Lynch's movie has the ecology and religion in there - it's just not spelled out the same way or in the detail as the book, because it can't be done that way. It's the same reason no Moby Dick movie has ever done Cetology, even though it's a full chapter in the book.
Wow. It's now a better cast than Lynch's film. Zendaya sticks out in a Katie-Holmes-in-Batman-Begins way, but I'll trust Villeneuve's instincts, since Chani is an important character to get right.
gorgon wrote: Wow. It's now a better cast than Lynch's film. Zendaya sticks out in a Katie-Holmes-in-Batman-Begins way, but I'll trust Villeneuve's instincts, since Chani is an important character to get right.
gorgon wrote: Wow. It's now a better cast than Lynch's film. Zendaya sticks out in a Katie-Holmes-in-Batman-Begins way, but I'll trust Villeneuve's instincts, since Chani is an important character to get right.
gorgon wrote: Wow. It's now a better cast than Lynch's film. Zendaya sticks out in a Katie-Holmes-in-Batman-Begins way, but I'll trust Villeneuve's instincts, since Chani is an important character to get right.
Josh Brolin joined the cast as Gurney. How much of a budget does this movie have, I feel like they're spending it all on actors that aren't all that obscure.
Oh, and Sting sucks as an actor. Will be interesting to see who plays Feyd-Rautha in this one. The guy in the miniseries seemed like too much of a meathead, while Sting was...too much Sting hamming it up. A relative unknown may suffice here.
How much of a budget does this movie have, I feel like they're spending it all on actors that aren't all that obscure.
*shrug* It's their money to spend. Besides, this project is becoming something that actors may want to be attached to. Talent attracts talent. They might not all be asking for their customary top dollar.
Looking forward to this as Dune is brilliant. I love the Lynch movie, fond of the TV series and think the games are sheer brilliance. Sigh...I'm addicted to Dune 2000! Cryo's dune is a master piece in game design...
The original Herbert books are a bit heavy going, and sometimes feel like a chore to read. There is no denying that they are brilliant, but I honestly could not say I was able to take in about 50% of them...it was like a chapter of waffle which ends on an amazing revelation. The Brian & Kevin books weren't as much food for thought but damn they were good page turners! So addictive!
Favourite bit in the fluff is Erasmus and his "son" Gilbertus. Its screwed up but somehow it feels like a genuine father-son relationship. Kind of like Terminator 2 "of all the would-be fathers, only this machine measured up..."
The thing I'd like explained about the books is what Frank's plan was for (book spoilers ahead)...
Spoiler:
...introducing the machines. Brian and Kevin wrote the conclusion to the series based on Frank's notes, which finally explained what the Honored Matres and company were running from. It was the return of the old machine enemy...fine.
But as maligned as Brian and Kevin's books were, at least they used their many prequels to properly introduce Erasmus and Omnius. Which then paid off when they rolled out Hunters and Sandworms. I'm not sure that Frank would have gotten to the same place just by introducing them in Book 7 (and potentially 8). If that makes sense.
Maybe they've talked about it elsewhere, but I always thought it interesting that Frank apparently just planned to unveil the big bad for the first time in Book 7. *shrug*
I think if Frank Herbert had introduced the machines as the lurking antagonist, it wouldn't have been the digital moustache-twirling idiots that we ended up with.
It could quite possibly have been a more faceless enemy, and the exposition required could come from the memories of the various characters. One of the main themes of the series was the importance of human consciousness, so having a soulless machine being the foe works well with that. Possibly as something more akin to the initial conception of the Borg or the Matrix. A machine mind running on the suppressed minds of the humans it assimilates, all attempting to create a more and more prefect prescient intelligence - again in conflict with the prescience-free evolution of humanity that Leto II was bulding towards.
A faceless enemy occurred to me, but then you still have the problem of the old couple. Of course, Frank may have had other plans, but Brian and Kevin co-opted them to fit their thing. I thought most signs pointed to them being Tleilaxu anyway.
So Jason Momoa is in talks to be Duncan Idaho, now this one i'm not too sure about. I'm not a big fan of him, never seen him do anything where he seemed like a good actor. He's a bit cartoonish to me, something about his face. They need to start casting some less known people in this movie before it becomes a circus.
Momoa certainly isn’t a classic character actor, but he has more range than people give him credit for. Duncan needs to be a charismatic - instantly likeable - and intense guy, and Momoa has that. I trust Villeneuve that he won’t be having him bro-dude his way through the story.
That is a really big role though, considering everything that comes later. It occurs to me that Oscar Issac would also have been an outstanding Duncan.
I disagree completely about the cast. Give me more good actors working with more good actors.
I dunno, I didn't even like him in GoT. But then again if anyone can get a good performance out of him it's Villeneuve and his direction. He's only in talks as well so it could change before they start shooting.
Jason Momoa joins the cast too! damn this project is looking amazing. I hope the images and cinematography is stellar and the story top notch. I really hope its good for a change.
gorgon wrote: Momoa certainly isn’t a classic character actor, but he has more range than people give him credit for. Duncan needs to be a charismatic - instantly likeable - and intense guy, and Momoa has that. I trust Villeneuve that he won’t be having him bro-dude his way through the story.
I don't see why not, since that's what Duncan Idaho did for his short presence in the novel.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gorgon wrote: A faceless enemy occurred to me, but then you still have the problem of the old couple. Of course, Frank may have had other plans, but Brian and Kevin co-opted them to fit their thing. I thought most signs pointed to them being Tleilaxu anyway.
I'd always put them down as being some sort of evolved Face Dancers - wasn't there an implication that the Face Dancers were really running things on Tleilax anyway? I never made it as far as the sequel novels by Pinky and the Brian; I crashed out of the Butlerian Jihad series before they even started with the sequels. I'll just stick with the Encyclopedia, non-canon as it may be.
gorgon wrote: Momoa certainly isn’t a classic character actor, but he has more range than people give him credit for. Duncan needs to be a charismatic - instantly likeable - and intense guy
Does he? Duncan's presence in the first book is really minimal.
He's already gone at the beginning
He pops in for literally a handful of pages to introduce Stilgar and set up the very basics of trust and a potential future alliance with the Fremen. (which is based on obeying their customs, not being charismatic)
Then he's recalled and quickly removed from the board in Paul and Jessica's... passage.
If the film evolves into a series, he'll obviously matter a lot more (to the point of becoming the main character several thousand years down the line), but in Dune itself Momoa will functionally have a cameo.
And ironically for casting Momoa-the-action-star, later incarnations of Duncan rarely have any action scenes. Well, except for the 'action' scenes, but the BGs basically keep him permanently in a box. The second incarnation is basically a mystic philosopher
Spoiler:
turned bureaucrat/scorned husband
which, while I really liked Momoa in Stargate: Atlantis, that might be a little past his reach.
I am a little bit sceptical about casting more famous actors as this only a good idea if ghe role the should play match the last films they made
If people go jnto the movie to see Aquaman in Space the will be disappointed no metter if the movie us goid or not
For the movie itself it is difficult, I love Lynchs version of the story
not because it covers Dune very well but because it is a good movie by itself
For later versions of Dune I always find it kind of sad that inner thoughts/monologue was turned into dialogues that not really fitted the scenes but need to be done to explain what the character was thinking
PS:
And there are different cuts of Lynchs Dune available.
of course most people know the original cinema version and the extended TV version but there is also the Alternative Edition (redux) wich is a mix of both
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94d77kdmOvU
gorgon wrote: Momoa certainly isn’t a classic character actor, but he has more range than people give him credit for. Duncan needs to be a charismatic - instantly likeable - and intense guy
Does he? Duncan's presence in the first book is really minimal.
He's already gone at the beginning
He pops in for literally a handful of pages to introduce Stilgar and set up the very basics of trust and a potential future alliance with the Fremen. (which is based on obeying their customs, not being charismatic)
Then he's recalled and quickly removed from the board in Paul and Jessica's... passage.
If the film evolves into a series, he'll obviously matter a lot more (to the point of becoming the main character several thousand years down the line), but in Dune itself Momoa will functionally have a cameo.
The studio isn’t going to begin this kind of enterprise without looking toward it becoming a film franchise, or without having the main actors signed for multiple films. So yes, this is a very big casting because he will have been chosen with the future in mind. It isn’t just about this film.
gorgon wrote: Momoa certainly isn’t a classic character actor, but he has more range than people give him credit for. Duncan needs to be a charismatic - instantly likeable - and intense guy
Does he? Duncan's presence in the first book is really minimal.
He's already gone at the beginning
He pops in for literally a handful of pages to introduce Stilgar and set up the very basics of trust and a potential future alliance with the Fremen. (which is based on obeying their customs, not being charismatic)
Then he's recalled and quickly removed from the board in Paul and Jessica's... passage.
If the film evolves into a series, he'll obviously matter a lot more (to the point of becoming the main character several thousand years down the line), but in Dune itself Momoa will functionally have a cameo.
The studio isn’t going to begin this kind of enterprise without looking toward it becoming a film franchise, or without having the main actors signed for multiple films. So yes, this is a very big casting because he will have been chosen with the future in mind. It isn’t just about this film.
Well, from that perspective, he seems like a horrible fit. Can you really picture Momoa calming reciting 'Zen-sufi' aphorisms and homilies for half of Dune Messiah's run time? Or doing a convincing Mentat bit?
For that matter, can you see the audience reaction when he pops up twice in the first one before his head gets cracked open all over the landing platform? That might be a fun reaction to watch, but if someone is just following the name, they're going to leave disappointed.
He'll do just fine. And I trust the people involved with this. I'm not about to wring my hands over this cast or spend the next two years developing dire scenarios.
gorgon wrote: He'll do just fine. And I trust the people involved with this. I'm not about to wring my hands over this cast or spend the next two years developing dire scenarios.
Dire scenarios? The worst a Dune movie can do has already happened.
Not yet, but that is the one announcement i'm most curious about. If Johann Johannsson was still alive I would have assumed it would be him. But he's passed away and he was Denis go to guy when it came to music. He could end up doing Wallfisch/Zimmer again, or who knows...it'll be interesting to see though.
Very excited for this movie. The casting looks mostly spot on so far, although I’m not sure about Jason Mamoa.
I’m waiting with a little trepidation for the casting of the Emperor Shaddam. He’s an important character in the book and previous versions have totally miscast him with actors who were far too old.
It was announced today Funcom will be making games set in the Dune universe including an open world multiplayer. They did Conan Exiles so there is a chance we could get a passable Dune video game within the next couple years or so.Other than that, hoping for more casting news later in the week.
What other biggish roles are left? Thufir, Yueh, Feyd and Shaddam, I guess? Irulan is a very small role, but they could elevate it like the miniseries did. I guess Liet Kynes also.
gorgon wrote: What other biggish roles are left? Thufir, Yueh, Feyd and Shaddam, I guess? Irulan is a very small role, but they could elevate it like the miniseries did. I guess Liet Kynes also.
Nothing of much significance in terms of screentime, but it's still cool to see the smaller roles being fleshed out. Even though they have limited screen time they matter a lot to the world building and dynamic of the movie.
Chang Chen has been cast as dr Yueh. And Oscar Isaac said he doesn't begin filming until may, so by then at the latest they would have started filming. I originally heard march but now i'm not sure about that.
Josh Brolin shared a short video of the Wadi Rum desert in Jordan where the desert scenes will be filmed. Look at that beautiful red sand! Neither the Lynch movie nor the TV miniseries (shot entirely on soundstages IIRC) really captured the desert, but it looks like this one will.
I agree, Gorgon, that most desert scenes in the 1984 movie was covered with that sodding smoke effect. Its hard to appreciate a good set - even if miniature - when its got crap all over it.
When you think about it, it was two decades after Lawrence of Arabia, and even Star Wars managed to churn out a decent sand planet.
Right? That book and series is full of environmental themes, and yet Lynch's film did a pretty poor job of featuring the environment.
I'm a Lynch fan and a Dune fan. But as amazing as the cast, production design, etc., was, on many levels it seems like he never really got the source material regardless of how much he met with Herbert. However, I do recognize that Lynch didn't have the final cut on the film, and that his original cut supposedly was 45 minutes longer with an ending more like the book.
Anyway, this is a passion project for Villeneuve, and I'm very optimistic that it's going to make a big difference in the final result. It also helps to have a studio behind the plan to splilt the book into more than one film.
Man i just hope they keep the same look as the lynch film for the spacing guild. They had them down pat in the lynch movie... also with a little update to the look the spacing guild could pull off the "Admech" look in a 40k movie and the navigator... do i need to say more?
This looks very interesting i cant wait to see more.
FIlming in Jordan for the arrakis desert scenes has wrapped as of today, that was pretty quick. Then again, we're probably talking about the last 25-45 minutes of the movie at most. It's kinda hard to say without knowing when during the book they will stop. No leaks worth mentioning either. Though someone did get images of a set that was supposedly being used for "star wars reshoots" during the past two weeks. IMO I think the Dune staff/security purposely misled tourists into thinking they were doing SW reshoots lol.
Primary shooting on location is usually the shortest part of film production.
Pre- and POST-Production tend to take the most time. Setbuilding, prop making and location scouting, then adding in any FX work that's needed and adding the score.
Love Dune but I'm not looking forward to this movie. I just don't think Dune is filmable. Half the time nothing is really happening in the books it's just people thinking.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Love Dune but I'm not looking forward to this movie. I just don't think Dune is filmable. Half the time nothing is really happening in the books it's just people thinking.
I honestly don't think it will follow the book as closely as people might be hoping for. Think along the lines of blade runner compared to do androids dream of electric sheep. It's an adaptation that kinda does it's own thing and becomes something else.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Love Dune but I'm not looking forward to this movie. I just don't think Dune is filmable. Half the time nothing is really happening in the books it's just people thinking.
I honestly don't think it will follow the book as closely as people might be hoping for. Think along the lines of blade runner compared to do androids dream of electric sheep. It's an adaptation that kinda does it's own thing and becomes something else.
But...but that was what Lynch did! And we hates him for it!
I'll give the film five stars if part of the adaptation process includes "killing words" or Weirding Modules.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Love Dune but I'm not looking forward to this movie. I just don't think Dune is filmable. Half the time nothing is really happening in the books it's just people thinking.
I honestly don't think it will follow the book as closely as people might be hoping for. Think along the lines of blade runner compared to do androids dream of electric sheep. It's an adaptation that kinda does it's own thing and becomes something else.
But...but that was what Lynch did! And we hates him for it!
I'll give the film five stars if part of the adaptation process includes "killing words" or Weirding Modules.
Funny enough for a Lynch film it didn't even feel like one. I don't think Lynch got to make the movie he wanted. Denis however seems to have the means and at least more freedom to do what he wants. Not sure if he gets final cut though...it would be interesting to find that out.
KamikazeCanuck wrote: Love Dune but I'm not looking forward to this movie. I just don't think Dune is filmable. Half the time nothing is really happening in the books it's just people thinking.
I honestly don't think it will follow the book as closely as people might be hoping for. Think along the lines of blade runner compared to do androids dream of electric sheep. It's an adaptation that kinda does it's own thing and becomes something else.
I'm going to take the other side of that and say that it's reasonably true to the book...along the lines of the miniseries rather than the film. Definitely closer than Jodorowsky's wacky version.
And I trust that -- unlike Lynch -- Villeneuve understands Dune enough not to introduce contrivances like 'weirding modules'. It's not that they aren't in the books. It's that they serve to lose the point about why the Fremen are so formidable.
I think everyone is underestimating how visionary Villenueve is. He's going to be brave and deviate from Herbert's book in ways Lynch wasn't willing to. Here are some of my predicitions:
Spoiler:
Dr. Yueh dies from slipping in the shower before he can implement his treachery. Duke Leto then begins the long process of integrating the Freeman into Arrakis society through a 10 point bureaucratic plan involving education reform, economic stimulus, and neighborhood outreach. The movie will focus on interconnected uplifting stories of disaffected youth and working class people finding purpose in the new opportunities Duke Leto's actions bring about. Not a single shot needs to be fired for this film to be a success. I suppose there will still be a few scenes that give lip service to Spice and Worms, but these are going to be background elements thrown in for fans of the books. The CGI budget will be primarily used on ornithopter scenes where Duke Leto surveys progress on his infrastructure projects. Hans Zimmer's talents will be used for balancing sound levels in the Eye of the Tiger montage scenes; montages of community building, of course.
Skarsgard said he will be spending 6+ hours a day in the makeup chair for fat man prosthetics. I wonder if they'll have him flying around too. I kinda hope not...
Well, that's a healthy way to put on weight. In contrast, Kenneth McMillan packed on real pounds in the Lynch film from CHEWING EVERY PIECE OF SCENERY IN SIGHT.
Well the greece location was taken off IMDB, so now that's up to question. Maybe someone made an error. But we have the first banner/teaser image for the movie, from the licensing expo next week. Being teased with legendary pictures other stuff.
Spoiler:
Whether more will be shown next week is unknown, I think it's too early to see any real images of the set/actors in costume but who knows. It might be a no phones allowed thing too so I don't expect to see anything.
We are new getting a kind of streaming series for Dune, focusing on the bene gesserit. Pilot episode will be directed by Denis Villeneuve, so this will tie into the new movies.
Based on what i've seen this is a real possibility. She's likely either playing Kynes or Mapes, but I always got the vibe Mapes was older like an old house maid with grey hair. I don't think gender swapping Kynes is that problematic in the overall picture, but i'm not sure what the point of that would be, other than to be inclusive or something.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or she was the best choice at the audition. It’s not like it matters.
Mind you, I can’t see why “to be inclusive” would be a negative.
According to the linked story the "leaked" casting call specifically mentions a female character, so it's hardly surprising that a woman would be the best choice from those auditions...
As to "why does it matter/what's wrong with inclusivity" etc - if it doesn't matter, why do it? Especially when there doesn't appear to be any reason for it - the article indicates Kynes' role, outside of the swapped gender, remains the same. So if you're not going to turn it into some big subversive Thing, why make a pointless change from the source material in an ostensibly serious/faithful adaptation? And if your concern is inclusivity, deciding to make an adaptation of a work that focuses on several explicitly regressive and openly patriarchal societies seems odd.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or she was the best choice at the audition. It’s not like it matters.
Mind you, I can’t see why “to be inclusive” would be a negative.
According to the linked story the "leaked" casting call specifically mentions a female character, so it's hardly surprising that a woman would be the best choice from those auditions...
As to "why does it matter/what's wrong with inclusivity" etc - if it doesn't matter, why do it? Especially when there doesn't appear to be any reason for it - the article indicates Kynes' role, outside of the swapped gender, remains the same. So if you're not going to turn it into some big subversive Thing, why make a pointless change from the source material in an ostensibly serious/faithful adaptation? And if your concern is inclusivity, deciding to make an adaptation of a work that focuses on several explicitly regressive and openly patriarchal societies seems odd.
How many women have notable roles in Dune, though? Jessica, Chani, the old Sayyadina...Helen Gaius? Princess Irulan? The doctor's dead wife? The genetic dead end Guy's wife? If you want the film to be less of a sausage fest you may as well gender swap a character whose gender had nothing to do with the plot. Liet Kynes was not born into the Fremen hierarchy (well, the second Liet was, but that will probably be streamlined for the movie), and gained all his importance through the power of environmentalism.
I mean, I guess they could gender swap Piter or Thufir, too, and it wouldn't change too much, but some of the creepy, catty undertones would be lost.
Oh, I don’t know, a female Piter could be just as sadistic and cruel. Of course he’s supposed to have been trained by the Bene Tlielax, so a female version might be awkward if you wanted to get into the expanded universe in a sequel...
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or she was the best choice at the audition. It’s not like it matters.
Mind you, I can’t see why “to be inclusive” would be a negative.
According to the linked story the "leaked" casting call specifically mentions a female character, so it's hardly surprising that a woman would be the best choice from those auditions...
As to "why does it matter/what's wrong with inclusivity" etc - if it doesn't matter, why do it? Especially when there doesn't appear to be any reason for it - the article indicates Kynes' role, outside of the swapped gender, remains the same. So if you're not going to turn it into some big subversive Thing, why make a pointless change from the source material in an ostensibly serious/faithful adaptation? And if your concern is inclusivity, deciding to make an adaptation of a work that focuses on several explicitly regressive and openly patriarchal societies seems odd.
How many women have notable roles in Dune, though? Jessica, Chani, the old Sayyadina...Helen Gaius? Princess Irulan? The doctor's dead wife? The genetic dead end Guy's wife? If you want the film to be less of a sausage fest you may as well gender swap a character whose gender had nothing to do with the plot. Liet Kynes was not born into the Fremen hierarchy (well, the second Liet was, but that will probably be streamlined for the movie), and gained all his importance through the power of environmentalism.
I mean, I guess they could gender swap Piter or Thufir, too, and it wouldn't change too much, but some of the creepy, catty undertones would be lost.
But that's exactly my point - why does it matter if the film is a "sausage fest"? That's the story that they're ostensibly interested in telling. And what's the point of gender-swapping a character if you're not going to use that to make some kind of point about something?
There are, broadly, two kinds of adaptations: faithful to the source, and reinterpreting the source to make some kind of point. If the goal here was to make the Dune equivalent of Verheoven's Starship Troopers then sure, go nuts, change whatever you like. But, ostensibly, this is supposed to be the first of the two, in which case it should only be making changes if they're actually required by the medium.
It matters because Hollywood is unbalanced towards white men for no good reason. You seem happy for that situation to carry on, but it seems reasonable to me that we make strides to eliminate such biases - conscious or unconscious- where possible. If it doesn’t matter, why _not_ change it?
Anything more is going to result in a lock, so that’s all I’ll say n the matter.
Having enjoyed Prelude to Dune and Liet's story in that trilogy - in which he is clearly written as a male character - I'm a bit sad at this news. As a young man(when I first read the novels) I related to living in the shadow of one's father and being unwittingly ignored by that father, and "getting what you want" at the cost of a fellow male friend is a hard pill to swallow. Changing the gender of Liet is like dismissing important events for that character.
Thats not to say I won't appreciate the forthcoming movies for what they will be but I feel its an unnecessary change, especially when there are already enough strong female characters in the film, which likewise tell the hardships of a woman's life within a sisterhood and the duty it demands and will inevitably cause conflict for personal desires.
In a more positive view, there is a film version of The Tempest that stars Helen Mirren in the role of Prospero who is renamed Prospera. Its a mixed bag, but Prospera was a high note for the film, and would give an idea of how this could work.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Or she was the best choice at the audition. It’s not like it matters.
Mind you, I can’t see why “to be inclusive” would be a negative.
According to the linked story the "leaked" casting call specifically mentions a female character, so it's hardly surprising that a woman would be the best choice from those auditions...
As to "why does it matter/what's wrong with inclusivity" etc - if it doesn't matter, why do it? Especially when there doesn't appear to be any reason for it - the article indicates Kynes' role, outside of the swapped gender, remains the same. So if you're not going to turn it into some big subversive Thing, why make a pointless change from the source material in an ostensibly serious/faithful adaptation? And if your concern is inclusivity, deciding to make an adaptation of a work that focuses on several explicitly regressive and openly patriarchal societies seems odd.
How many women have notable roles in Dune, though? Jessica, Chani, the old Sayyadina...Helen Gaius? Princess Irulan? The doctor's dead wife? The genetic dead end Guy's wife? If you want the film to be less of a sausage fest you may as well gender swap a character whose gender had nothing to do with the plot. Liet Kynes was not born into the Fremen hierarchy (well, the second Liet was, but that will probably be streamlined for the movie), and gained all his importance through the power of environmentalism.
I mean, I guess they could gender swap Piter or Thufir, too, and it wouldn't change too much, but some of the creepy, catty undertones would be lost.
But that's exactly my point - why does it matter if the film is a "sausage fest"? That's the story that they're ostensibly interested in telling. And what's the point of gender-swapping a character if you're not going to use that to make some kind of point about something?
There are, broadly, two kinds of adaptations: faithful to the source, and reinterpreting the source to make some kind of point. If the goal here was to make the Dune equivalent of Verheoven's Starship Troopers then sure, go nuts, change whatever you like. But, ostensibly, this is supposed to be the first of the two, in which case it should only be making changes if they're actually required by the medium.
The last few years there have been some high profile studies that suggest movies are more financially successful if they appeal to more groups with representation. Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, and other movies have solidified the new conventional wisdom that a film that doesn't have sufficient representation is leaving money on the table.
I could see your point if the gender of Liet Kynes were important in the first place, but it really isn't. The fundamental story of two concubines and the incredibly special young man they discuss won't be changed at all by casting this supporting character with an actor of a different ethnicity* or gender.
*Speaking of ethnicity, I'm fairly sure that many of the characters in Dune were not intended to be white. The Duke, the Emperor, and the sort-of related Sardaukar and Fremen are described as having olive skin, hawk noses, wooly hair and the like, and Stilgar has a dark face.
Changing the gender of the character is just another symptom of the rampant SJW bullcrap that seems to be pervading our whole society right now. It really needs to stop. I can see no real reason for the change except because "diversity". Forcing it like that just cheapens the whole thing, including the diversity message itself.
ZergSmasher wrote: Changing the gender of the character is just another symptom of the rampant SJW bullcrap that seems to be pervading our whole society right now. It really needs to stop. I can see no real reason for the change except because "diversity". Forcing it like that just cheapens the whole thing, including the diversity message itself.
Blocked, reported, moving on, and I optimistically hope everyone else will do the same rather than drag this thread down and get it locked bacause the mods seem to prefer shutting down whole threads even when it was clearly just one guy who turned them into a bonfire.
AndrewGPaul wrote: It matters because Hollywood is unbalanced towards white men for no good reason. You seem happy for that situation to carry on, but it seems reasonable to me that we make strides to eliminate such biases - conscious or unconscious- where possible. If it doesn’t matter, why _not_ change it?
Anything more is going to result in a lock, so that’s all I’ll say n the matter.
No no, you don't get to drop a big reekin' fart like that and then just walk away.
I'm not even remotely happy for "that situation" to carry on. I welcome any films that address that balance, so long as it doesn't require changing characters and stories that are already established as having certain qualities as part of what are ostensibly faithful adaptations.
Going against a commonly held perception of a character's qualities when said qualities weren't actually specified in the original work being adapted? Fine.
Whole new stories, or stories with new characters told in existing settings, which make a point of including characters of various backgrounds? Wonderful.
I'm in favour of literally every form of increasing diversity in media, except the one we're discussing here - making arbitrary changes in a supposedly faithful adaptation. If a filmmaker or studio believes that an existing story is too much of a "sausagefest" for modern audiences, either A; make a purposefully non-faithful adaptation of/semi-original homage to the work, or B; don't adapt the work. My position is entirely logically consistent regardless of what "variable" we're discussing - if you think Star Trek is too dull and intellectual for modern audiences, then don't change it, just don't adapt it. If you think Star Wars is too much an uncritical heroes journey and you want to make something more "subversive", don't change it, do something else.
My objection is that they are selling this as a faithful adaptation, but are making changes that are not required by the medium. Not everyone is motivated purely by Culture War nonsense.
Yodhrin wrote: Not everyone is motivated purely by Culture War nonsense.
Given how your posting history shows you reliably show up in every relevant thread to talk about how you're "Not Against Representation But", the culture war seems highly important to you.
Change is fine. I don't see how they make this a film. Its not enuogh time to tell the story. A miniseries is a perfect format , as the Sci Fi chanel did (which I thought was excellent).
Yodhrin wrote: Not everyone is motivated purely by Culture War nonsense.
Given how your posting history shows you reliably show up in every relevant thread to talk about how you're "Not Against Representation But", the culture war seems highly important to you.
I mean, OK, firstly it's pretty creepy that you're trawling my post history, but whatever floats your boat. As for your interpretation of what I said, you're free to think whatever you like, but given I stated my precise thoughts literally right there in the post you -snipped- to take a potshot, I'm comfortable in saying your interpretation is wrong. Thoroughly so.
Cool, now, that said - care to address the actual point?
So, Yodhrin, are you saying your main concern then is that such a change makes the adaptation less accurate to the novel, and that you would not have a problem if the adaptation were not aiming for accuracy?
Perhaps that is our difference. I simply do not expect this movie to be perfectly accurate or even to try to be perfectly accurate. I expect DV to aim for thematic and tonal accuracy, while finding more innovative ways to convey all of the inner monologues and subtle intrigues that convey the weight of the novel, I.e. the unfilmable stuff.
So, I expect a Dune more accurate than Lynch's version, but less accurate (thoughmore lively and creative) than the Syfy version.
PS: Again, I'll point out that increased diversity correlates with increased profits, where profits are the reason any movie or adaptation gets made at all. Perhaps it will appeal more if we spell it with cynical dollar signs? Diver$$$ity!
Frazzled wrote: Change is fine. I don't see how they make this a film. Its not enuogh time to tell the story. A miniseries is a perfect format , as the Sci Fi chanel did (which I thought was excellent).
If I remember correctly this is going to be split over two movies.
Frazzled wrote: Change is fine. I don't see how they make this a film. Its not enuogh time to tell the story. A miniseries is a perfect format , as the Sci Fi chanel did (which I thought was excellent).
If I remember correctly this is going to be split over two movies.
Having just finished my reread of Dune, I really hope the film ends with that last line of dialog and then immediately cuts to black. I want to hear a whole theater full of people say, "Huh?"
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Having just finished my reread of Dune, I really hope the film ends with that last line of dialog and then immediately cuts to black. I want to hear a whole theater full of people say, "Huh?"
Have to say, the ending is rather underwhelming. Its important if they go on to do the following two books, but somehow its reads like "...and then Irulan farted. And nobody knew. The End."
Frazzled wrote: Change is fine. I don't see how they make this a film. Its not enuogh time to tell the story. A miniseries is a perfect format , as the Sci Fi chanel did (which I thought was excellent).
If I remember correctly this is going to be split over two movies.
Ah thanks! I did not know that.
You're welcome.
I think the tv series was roughly the same length as two modern movies, so I think we should be alright.
Spoiler:
I would imagine they would end the first film with the funeral of Jamis. Paul has to show-off at some point in the first movie and once the funeral is over Paul and Jess are full fledged members of the funky squad - sorry, "the Fremen". The second film would then be free to get down to some serious tabletop wargaming.
This is a leaked image of what is likely an ornithopter. Might want to sneak a peak at it before it gets removed. First leak of any significance to come out of the production.
I’m a a pretty devoted Dune fan, and changing Liet-Kynes’ gender is about as low on the WTF scale for a gender swap that I can think of. The story could use more female representation, and this one wouldn’t turn anything on its head.
gorgon wrote: The story could use more female representation
Good Lord, there's a whole Sisterhood in that book!
who like almost everyone else totally fail in their objectives (yes technically Jessica is to blame but she's one of them), so its a kind of equality of foob ups all round
Am kind of interested in the new movie although have a faint feeling that'll it'll suffer from the John Carter effect of having inspired so much the less read of the masses will see it as a knockoff of x,y and of course 40k
So the movie has now been delayed a month, will release december 18 2020. That is a bummer....it's like they're thinking it could be some christmas holiday blockbuster, hmm...so long as it makes enough money to greenlight the second half of the book then whatever.
I wish they would have but it doesn't seem like it. Most places i've looked at have said it's only the first half of the book. But we know Jamis has been cast, so that can kind of give people an idea of how far into the story this first movie goes. I think the director wanted to film both at once but legendary pictures wouldn't go for it. So if this first movie fails to break even..well....
The letter design seems too clean and modern for a movie steeped in the traditions of eons-old cultures. Or maybe I’m just too used to the curlicue font from the novels. Either way, I’m not feeling the Dune vibe from that font.
I don't think this movie is going to give off that old fashioned vibe. VIlleneuve's style is very modern and minimalist. The atreidies hawk logo has also been seen, and reminded me of the weyland yutani logo, very industrial. Also some footage was screened for some industry people last week, it was said the sets were somewhat akin to the wallace corp interiors from br2049 and arrival alien ship interiors. That is just one persons impression/opinion though.
Spoiler:
these are the ornithopters, only semi assembled. The wings/jets or whatever will likely be CGI'd in.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The letter design seems too clean and modern for a movie steeped in the traditions of eons-old cultures. Or maybe I’m just too used to the curlicue font from the novels. Either way, I’m not feeling the Dune vibe from that font.
Really hope the movie’s good.
It kind of reminds me of the spacing guild symbol from the David Lynch film, I like it.
Re-reading Dune after good decade or so, it does strike me that the Houses are as much nobility as we're used to it, as they are interstellar companies that just have family ownership. It's not too far fetched to see them adopt "industrial" logo style. Certainly would be even more topical given the impact big corps have on our own world's ecology.
They are shareholders in a larger company, but feudal in structure and view of power. I feel like Villaneuve will lose some of the alchemy of the story if he makes Dune a parable for late stage capitalism. If he wants to tackle a dystopian future where one magic man conquers the system of corporate overmasters, he should adapt The Stars My Destination/Tiger! Tiger!. There is no shortage of adaptable novels that portray corporations as an imminent evil; Dune is not the best fit for that.
It’s a book about desert and philosophy with space jihad, space kung fu and giant fething space worms. This looks like the cover for a winner of the Caldecott award for best book about a dystopian summer camp.
It's a cool treatment of the word. Beyond that, well...
Unless you're talking about what's going on the background, at right about 12 o'clock. Now THAT'S really interesting and worthy of a long discussion. But I'll wait for everyone to find it for themselves. Take your time, everyone.
Funny thing is when that image leaked WB was fighting hard to get it removed. I had my IG posts taken down, they were trying to cull it off the web on ig and twitter. It was futile though, truly futile effort lol. Funny enough though the background of that image is actually a stock photo with their new dune logo slapped on top and some color grading. Maybe that's why they wanted it gone cause it's not a fully fleshed out promotional image.
Unless you're talking about what's going on the background, at right about 12 o'clock. Now THAT'S really interesting and worthy of a long discussion. But I'll wait for everyone to find it for themselves. Take your time, everyone.
I give up. Which blurry pinprick is the significant part?
I think their stillsuit discipline sucks just like the adaptations that have come before, but I appreciate that there appear to masks -- and hoods? -- that they'll probably wear when they're not ACTING. I appreciate that you need to see actors' faces.
I also like that they also gave a nod to coverings over the stillsuits. Should really be full robes I believe, but at least it's a step in the right direction.
Cast LOOKS great. I see the characters and and I get them.
Scenery looks amazing. SO GLAD they shot in the desert instead of on soundstages. It is -- at least partially -- an environmental story that demands to be shot in a real environment.
Also like this quote from the director.
It’s a world that takes its power in details.
I continue to think this project is in very good hands. So my ruling is OH HELL YES.
Looks pretty good, but I’m still partial to the weird 80’s designs. The still suits seem to reflect the book a little better, but that armor doesn’t strike me as being very book-like.
I'm actually digging the new Liet Kynes, if they're going to change a character's appearance so radically, Kynes is actually a pretty good candidate for that, and this shot is totally workable as "Imperial Planetologist gone native" (actually, as much as I like Max von Sydow, in a visual performance, I think this incarnation fits the role of a person split between worlds much better when set among the rest of the cast).
Spoiler:
The shots of the rest of the cast are similarly awesome, the more I see about this flick, the more excited I am for it.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm actually digging the new Liet Kynes, if they're going to change a character's appearance so radically, Kynes is actually a pretty good candidate for that, and this shot is totally workable as "Imperial Planetologist gone native" (actually, as much as I like Max von Sydow, in a visual performance, I think this incarnation fits the role of a person split between worlds much better when set among the rest of the cast).
Spoiler:
The shots of the rest of the cast are similarly awesome, the more I see about this flick, the more excited I am for it.
It's been years since I last read Dune. Was Liet Kynes ever given a physical description? I've not seen Sharon Duncan-Brewster in anything, but I agree that she looks convincing in this photo.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm actually digging the new Liet Kynes, if they're going to change a character's appearance so radically, Kynes is actually a pretty good candidate for that, and this shot is totally workable as "Imperial Planetologist gone native" (actually, as much as I like Max von Sydow, in a visual performance, I think this incarnation fits the role of a person split between worlds much better when set among the rest of the cast).
I'm going to put on my Dune nerd hat and clarify that Liet was born a Fremen on Arrakis. His/her father Pardot was the planetologist who moved there and went native, marrying a Fremen. Liet then continued his work.
Of course, it's completely possible that they blend these two characters for this film. It's very common for people tend to mix them up anyway. Actually, Lynch might have done that with his film...I can't remember. Von Sydow definitely didn't make for a believable native Fremen.
And yeah, if they're going to gender swap, Liet Kynes is a fine choice. Makes the relationship with Chani mother-daughter, and I don't think the saga has too many of those overall. Fathers seem more prominent.
I'm always pessimistic about a Dune film but these images combined with the fact they are splitting the book into two films is making me more optimistic.
Even at two 150(?) minute movies, it seems like a lot of ground to cover. I expect that there will be changes, and I'm okay with that. What it seems like Villeneuve is going to get right(er) that Lynch really didn't are the *themes* from the book. Ecology, religion and politics, power, etc.
gorgon wrote: What it seems like Villeneuve is going to get right(er) that Lynch really didn't are the *themes* from the book. Ecology, religion and politics, power, etc.
They had pretty powerful blue eyes in the original film, so chances are its contacts. Plus a bit of contrast boosting over the whole photo in general to boost up the colours.
In an unrelated tangent, I saw one of those captioned “how to correctly wash your hands for long enough” replacing “Happy Birthday” with the litany against fear.
More stills/images coming soon, empire magazine come out tomorrow and vanity fair has a larger dune coverage over the coming weeks (june issue). Also mcfarlane toys is confirmed to be producing a line of figures and stuff. With all this stuff due out soon I can only imagine a trailer will be out by july.
Better images of the ornithopters on set, the above one is the sandstorm damaged one used to escape. Bottom one is the more militaristic atreides variant.
The top one looks so much like CGI it has to be a practical effect.
The second looks more like what I would expect from a civilization with thousands of years of space travel experience than the near-futuristic first one. However the sheer number of exposed joints and hydraulics seems a bit clunky for a product of 912th generation ornithopter technology.
Yeah the top one is real, it has the lower area of the window taped up with cardboard for whatever reason. And the wings are missing from it's sockets. The director has a fetish for brutalist imagery so the second one takes a lot of cues from that kind of architecture.
A trailer for this has been approved for canadian release with tenet around aug 27th. So we should finally have a good look at this movie by the end of next week. I am kind of surprised it took this long to get any footage but I guess they didn't want to market it that much with the covid going on. The december 18 release date of this movie is still an uncertainty.
In the Dune-verse FTL is accomplished by Navigators folding space with their minds. This is fueled by Spice. So far so good.
Spice is only found on Arrakis. There are no other intelligent races. So, how did we get there in the first place?
Sleeper ships? Generation ships? Some previous FTL method outlawed by the Butlerian Jihad? Naturally-occuring Navigators who did not use Spice?
I am sure it's answered somewhere but have no idea where to look.
The engines fold space. The Navigators just steer, using prescience fueled by melange. You can fold space without a Navigator, but there's a higher chance you lose the ship. Before space fold engines, I believe they had a regular, slower form of FTL travel.
Yeah, the “folding space with your mind” is just from the David Lynch film; I don’t think the original book(s) specified the FTL mechanism, just that you need a precognitive human to navigate safely. The subject is developed further in the expanded universe novels, and I think that before the Butlerian Jihad they just used advanced computers to plot a course. I haven’t read all of those books, but I think it’s implied that development of human navigators was part of the reason we were able to beat the machines, because they allowed human fleets to outmanoeuvre the AI.
I thought the first wave of expanse was done using AI before the Butlerian Jihad. Spice allowed humans to take over all the operations that used to be handled by thinking computers.
Jadenim wrote: Yeah, the “folding space with your mind” is just from the David Lynch film; I don’t think the original book(s) specified the FTL mechanism, just that you need a precognitive human to navigate safely. The subject is developed further in the expanded universe novels, and I think that before the Butlerian Jihad they just used advanced computers to plot a course. I haven’t read all of those books, but I think it’s implied that development of human navigators was part of the reason we were able to beat the machines, because they allowed human fleets to outmanoeuvre the AI.
The Kwisatz Haderach creating rain is similarly a Lynch Film Exclusive(TM)! Melange really only grants longevity and prescience. Which are awesome, but not full-on superpowers.
In the prequels, Norma Cenva created the spacefold engine. She also became the first Navigator IIRC, thereby solving how to fold space *safely*. This was after she was the first to tap into Bene Gesserit powers like Other Memory, prescience and molecular control. Before all of that, she was a genius inventor and the brains behind Tio Holtzman.
Rey had *nothin'* on Norma. Navigator/near-Mentat/pseudo-Reverend Mother/inventor of everything. It got kinda silly IMO, but it is what it is.
How did they get around the denizens hiding in the warp though?
Have to admit the cast for this looks amazing. Just missing Sting.
Other point is has Stellan Skarsgård presumably been laying on the pies bigtime to get some bulk on for the role (or do a Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder-style fat suit?)
The Baron is one thing I disliked in the first film. To me the baron has to look huge, bug enough to really warrant needing anti-gravity suspenders to allow him to walk. A bloated monster fat on the industry and excess his house has brought him.
I'm pretty sure there was some other form of FTL before the Holtzman engine was developed (by Norma Cenva), but it was MUCH slower than folding space (none of the travel times given in the Butlerian Jihad stories make sense if the ships are sublight only). The Holtzman engines are fast but due to the various gravitational interactions that can't easily be accounted for even with a computer they are risky. Having a prescient Navigator aboard to literally see the future and know if a course is safe takes the risk out of it, but technically you don't NEED a Navigator. The "Schools of Dune" trilogy (which takes place a little while after the Jihad stories) makes mention of this as only one company has Navigators; the others have to take a chance if they want to use Holtzman engines.
Overread wrote: The Baron is one thing I disliked in the first film. To me the baron has to look huge, bug enough to really warrant needing anti-gravity suspenders to allow him to walk. A bloated monster fat on the industry and excess his house has brought him.
Spoiler:
If anyone was curious as to how the baron is going to look in the new film.
People have been seeing the trailer in theaters already and leaking images of almost the whole thing. Honestly I think this movie looks perfect, probably the closest the book has ever been to being brought to life.
That is just his caladan attire, that planet looks cold (filmed in norway) in this film. The stillsuits do have half masks that cover the face. But I guess they wanted all the actors clearly identifiable here. Love the thopters and transport ships in the background though.
I kinda liked the 19th Century uniforms House Atreides used in the Lynch version. They wouldn't match the tone of the 2020 movie though.
From the shots we have seen of Isaac's Duke Leto so far, I have to say that I also liked Jurgen Prochnow better. He looked more noble and benevolent without losing the aura of regal authority. Isaacs comes across as a distant and condescending in comparison.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I just wish it looked less modern considering the story takes place tens of thousands of years in the future.
That's a bit of a LOLWUT, though I guess I know what you're driving at!
The fashion. The one guy not in a stillsuit looks like he’s wearing an outfit straight from a modern crime drama.
The overcoat... kinda does? The inner layer isn't really. Its closer to generic cyberpunk/near future clothing. Modern menswear doesn't tend to be one piece that goes below the waist without interruption, even (especially) with a built-in belt.
I can't quite get over Paul's head and hair, personally. He looks like Merry in LotR, wandering around Gondor, completely overshadowed like a cute kid surrounded by grizzled vets.
We are getting a full trailer on september 9th (different than the exclusive teaser being shown at Tenet screenings this week). Not much longer to wait. I wouldn't recommend watching the bootleg footage of the current teaser. Only ones i've seen are such low quality, it's just not even worth it.
I really like that Atredies hawk; it definitively looks like a stylised hawk without looking like generic 19th century heraldic hawk (looking at you GW! ) That’s quite a difficult thing to do.
So I just finished Chapterhouse: Dune and had no idea that there was a new Dune movie even announced, let alone with publicity stills and a trailer ready to drop. I am properly stoked. What perfect timing.
Curious about people's experiences with the books. I read the first three years ago - the first two in high school, and the third in college. I remember really disliking Children of Dune. Then this summer I decided on a whim to pick up God-Emperor of Dune and devoured the last three. I thought all three were very well-developed political thought experiments and enjoyed seeing the multi-generational scope of history. Struggling with the infinite human experience and the paltriness of the Bene Gesserit grail in comparison - both across space and time, recognizing that all memory and histories are flawed. As the book jacket review says, "rich fair, heady stuff." So I'm thinking that the things I didn't like about Dune Messiah and [/i]Children of Dune[/i] were just things that went over my head at the time, that I couldn't appreciate because I wasn't a mature enough reader.
I've had friends say that the common experience is to keep reading the Dune novels until you don't like them anymore. But I thought the last three ramped up in quality until the end. So maybe the third book is the stumbling block I remember it being. Is it worth a revisit?
The Sardaukar uniforms definitely beat the saggy Hazmat suits that looked as if you could barely see out of them from the Lynch version.
I just finished Children of Dune and found both it and Messiah to be underwhelming. At times, it feels as if the characters' long, loooong internal monologues randomly switch between being the actual plot and pure thought.
I was enjoying Children of Dune, but I put it down to read something else. I plan to return to it when I next have the Dune itch, and finish the entire Dune series in the fullness of time.
Deconstruction of the hero is never as popular as the hero's journey. I understand other criticisms of Messiah and Children, but I think they provide the actual point that Herbert was trying to make. Dune in isolation misses it completely.
I think Dune is the best realized novel, but the first three are a far richer story together.
gorgon wrote: Deconstruction of the hero is never as popular as the hero's journey. I understand other criticisms of Messiah and Children, but I think they provide the actual point that Herbert was trying to make. Dune in isolation misses it completely.
I think Dune is the best realized novel, but the first three are a far richer story together.
I wouldn't say Messiah and Children are bad stories. On a philosophical level, they are deeper than the rather formulaic Dune (which is ultimately the same old tale about the evil overlord taking over the peaceful land until the young hero makes his triumphant return).
They were however very dull reads. Also I was surprised by how awfully small the locale in which the story takes place was - Messiah happens almost entirely inside Paul's palace and the local market square. You'd think with a galactic wide Jihad going on, we'd see a bit more of the universe.
Spoiler:
I am also pretty sure that the Baron's return in Children, which made little sense even in-universe, was partially the result of Herbert regretting having killed off such a entertainingly vicious villain. He definitely reads as if he was far more fun to write than, say, Bijaz.
Esmer wrote: The Sardaukar uniforms definitely beat the saggy Hazmat suits that looked as if you could barely see out of them from the Lynch version.
I was about to say this. The Sardaukar from Lynch's movie just looked so...goofy. Like, how could you even fight in a bulky stupid-looking suit like that? Definitely digging the new look for them. To be fair, the ones attacking Duncan should be wearing House Harkonnen uniforms as that was part of the plot in the book, so I hope that's what we're seeing in that pic.
Esmer wrote: The Sardaukar uniforms definitely beat the saggy Hazmat suits that looked as if you could barely see out of them from the Lynch version.
I was about to say this. The Sardaukar from Lynch's movie just looked so...goofy. Like, how could you even fight in a bulky stupid-looking suit like that? Definitely digging the new look for them. To be fair, the ones attacking Duncan should be wearing House Harkonnen uniforms as that was part of the plot in the book, so I hope that's what we're seeing in that pic.
The guy on the left without a helmet - Duncan probably took his helmet off to confirm they're Sardaukar.
I like the Tuareg look of the Fremen. Something tells there will be a lot of new Tallarn army projects in the wake of this movie.
Also I wonder if we're going to get a glimpse of Feyd Rautha - maybe in a post-credit stinger (see what I did there). I seriously hope they didn't merge his character with Rabban.
I don't think Feyd got merged with Rabban, but I do think he won't have any presence in the movie. Based on the script leaks Feyd and the emperor are only namedropped, and will be introduced in the second movie.
Yeah it was announced to be only the first half of the book a long time ago. It seems likely the movie will end shortly after paul is accepted by the fremen. (due to jamis having been cast in the film).
Nope, the script for the second half is already a work in progress though. They could get warner bros/legendary to agree to film both parts simultaneously. But apparently there is some kind of contractual agreement for the second part. If this first movie tanks, they could try and wiggle out of that though.
It's releasing only in theaters at a time when theater patronage is very heavily down(thanks COVID!) and is a FX laden film?
Same reason, I think, most people expect New Mutants to bomb while the films that are doing theater and On Demand/home rental/purchase(Bill and Ted Face the Music, for example, is already available to own while also in theaters) combined releases are doing much better.
Whether this film gets delayed or not relies on the performance of Tenet in the united states. Right now that movie has done 'okay' overseas. Dune wasn't a cheap movie to make and needs to make back it's budget and then some. They might be really stubborn with this movie and insist on it being only in theaters. Hell even at the end of the teaser trailer it says in bold letters "only in theaters". Interestingly the teaser did not give a release date for the film.
I watched Tenet partially just to get a glimpse of the teaser. Turns out it WASN'T included in the screening in my region at least (Athens, Greece). I then had to sit through a 2 hours movie where I had absolutely no idea what was going on 90% of the time.
Yeah it was set for select screenings of Tenet only, take from that what you will. I'm not a big Nolan fan so leaving the house to see Tenet isn't even a consideration for me.
I can't believe that major studios are still pinning hopes on cinema take in the current climate, and if that's their decision point then there is no way these big budget blockbusters are going to continue outside of Netflix/Amazon.
Who is going to be the first to do some kind of 'pay per view' of a more expensive film and have that distributed through cable or internet view?
I would pay a cinema-ticket price to see this film on early release. I won't be going to the cinema to see it as much as I want to see the film and think it will be awesome on the big screen with TFX, it's just not worth the risk at the moment (I don't think I'm the only person to think this way!)
Who is going to be the first to do some kind of 'pay per view' of a more expensive film and have that distributed through cable or internet view?
Disney and Amazon have already done it
yet Cinema is not dead, at least here in Austria people are still going even with CoV restrictions
the main problem is just that there are not enough new movies to meet the demand as everything is hollywood focused, a lack of US "Blockbusters" is a problem
some cinemas now show TV-movies just to have something new to offer
My local Cinema (2-screen, rural area) was doing a "Pay to Host" scheme where local people would pay a few as a sponsor, but then show any movie they wanted.
There was Jaws, Empire Strikes Back, The Showman, etc. It was clever, but now that Unhinged and New Mutants is out, they have stopped this practice. Too bad.
I wanted to pay to host Starcrash. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
Legion of harkonnen troops assemble on...giedi prime? If that is truly the baron then he's massive. Only way I could imagine that is if he's floating with suspensors, and his cloak is so long that it hits the floor creating this towering silhouette.
I hope they kept the "polluted gak hole" look of Geidi Prime. I actually liked that about the Lynch version.
Also, I hope they went with the book version of the Baron's suspensors where he is just using them to walk normally, not to literally float. It was rather silly in both the Lynch and the TV version and came across as rather insulting towards the Padishah Emperor, what with him being forced to look upwards at the Baron at times.
First, what the heck is with that Harkonnen symbol? What is that supposed to be? The Harkonnen heraldic emblem was a gryphon, according to the 5th Dune book (Duncan sees it a few times in the hidden bunker he and what's her name hide out in and comments on it).
Second: Why aren't the Sardaukar wearing blue? If they are supposed to be in Harkonnen uniforms, they should be in blue. That was established in the original novel, for crying out loud. I mean, I guess I'm glad the Harkonnen uniforms aren't in red like the video game and TV miniseries versions, but I'm worried that everything military seems to be brown and grey in this. I guess they are going for "realism" but that wasn't a factor in the novels. The novels were Machiavellian space feudalism infighting and the color pallette the author described to us reflected this.
Although, the Sardaukar uniforms in the novel were grey, so they might not be in Harkonnen uniforms in that still image... but then we are left with the question as to why Duncan seems to be wearing one.
/throwshandsupinfrustration
Whatever. As long as they do a better job with the plot than the first miniseries did, I guess I'll be happy-ish. I just wish the movie wasn't so visually dull-looking.
First, what the heck is with that Harkonnen symbol? What is that supposed to be? The Harkonnen heraldic emblem was a gryphon, according to the 5th Dune book (Duncan sees it a few times in the hidden bunker he and what's her name hide out in and comments on it).
Second: Why aren't the Sardaukar wearing blue? If they are supposed to be in Harkonnen uniforms, they should be in blue. That was established in the original novel, for crying out loud. I mean, I guess I'm glad the Harkonnen uniforms aren't in red like the video game and TV miniseries versions, but I'm worried that everything military seems to be brown and grey in this. I guess they are going for "realism" but that wasn't a factor in the novels. The novels were Machiavellian space feudalism infighting and the color pallette the author described to us reflected this.
Although, the Sardaukar uniforms in the novel were grey, so they might not be in Harkonnen uniforms in that still image... but then we are left with the question as to why Duncan seems to be wearing one.
/throwshandsupinfrustration
Whatever. As long as they do a better job with the plot than the first miniseries did, I guess I'll be happy-ish. I just wish the movie wasn't so visually dull-looking.
Gonna be honest, 'button trivia' isn't the direction I'd go with movie criticism. Its not particularly tolerable with civil war re-enactors, for a novel its pretty completely irrelevant.
The color scheme isn't exactly laden with meaning. If that's the most egregious change, its a pretty good job.
Paul looks like he is going to need sunscreen factor 500 if he wants to survive in the desert.
If there's one thing I don't like about the stillsuits it's that some parts of them (the gloves, the shoes) look too mass-produced for a nomadic culture.
Hey, if David Lynch managed to cast Sean Young as Chani...
I'm really, really loving the cast choices - makes me wonder what on earth the previous two productions were thinking! The only oddball decision that Villeneuve has made has been for Liet Kynes and I'm totally cool with that.
Paul looks like he is going to need sunscreen factor 500 if he wants to survive in the desert.
If there's one thing I don't like about the stillsuits it's that some parts of them (the gloves, the shoes) look too mass-produced for a nomadic culture.
Remember that the Fremen did possess manufacturing capabilities in their sietches. There was some bits in one of the novels about "offworlder" stillsuits versus Fremen-built ones. I wouldn't be shocked if the Fremen ones had some parts they traded for or had smuggled in from offworld as their manufacturing couldn't do it in mass quantities.
Jadenim wrote: To be fair, Paul is native to a temperate planet, so you’d expect him to be rather fair.
Sure, but Timothee Chalamet is so pale he kinda looks as if he is ill at times. It's almost as bad as Daniel Radcliffe.
It does give him an otherworldly touch though so I guess that's a plus for the role. I think face-wise he would make a great Eldar character in a potential 40k movie.
Given how absolutely vital the stillsuit is to survival, I would expect it to be the one thing the Fremen would mass produce to an exacting standard. And it's one of the things they would want to make themselves so as not to give away their numbers.
Jadenim wrote: To be fair, Paul is native to a temperate planet, so you’d expect him to be rather fair.
Sure, but Timothee Chalamet is so pale he kinda looks as if he is ill at times. It's almost as bad as Daniel Radcliffe.
It does give him an otherworldly touch though so I guess that's a plus for the role. I think face-wise he would make a great Eldar character in a potential 40k movie.
He looks kinda like a young Loki.
Edit: Apparently he's like 5'11" 150~ so he's very skinny. That definitely adds to the sickly look since his cheeks are so sunken. He's no Tom Holland.
reds8n wrote: The seemingly obligatory teaser for the trailer , that is apparently out tomorrow
Hmm. His voice works for the 'callow youth' Paul in the first act, but depending on where they stick the ending of the film, 'successful rebel leader, husband, father (and etc)' Paul might not be particularly convincing.
gorgon wrote: Chalamet looks like a teenaged aristocrat...which is what Paul Atreides is in Dune. He's also a terrific actor. Don't get the criticisms.
Don't even vaguely know him as an actor. It's about the impression the photos give,
As a useless accessory aristocrat, he looks fine. But this is a guy whose life revolves around two very desperate knife fights, and spends several years (off camera, admittedly) as a terrorist leader of the most formidable warriors the universe has ever produced in the most harsh environment to ever exist. But... he looks like a Raggedy Andy doll that would struggle to peel a grape.
Even on Caladan, Paul was trained and prepared. 'Water-fat' is his initial impression on the fremen, not scrawny and useless. Still capable of wrestling a killer drone to destruction
gorgon wrote: Chalamet looks like a teenaged aristocrat...which is what Paul Atreides is in Dune. He's also a terrific actor. Don't get the criticisms.
Don't even vaguely know him as an actor. It's about the impression the photos give,
As a useless accessory aristocrat, he looks fine. But this is a guy whose life revolves around two very desperate knife fights, and spends several years (off camera, admittedly) as a terrorist leader of the most formidable warriors the universe has ever produced in the most harsh environment to ever exist. But... he looks like a Raggedy Andy doll that would struggle to peel a grape.
Even on Caladan, Paul was trained and prepared. 'Water-fat' is his initial impression on the fremen, not scrawny and useless. Still capable of wrestling a killer drone to destruction
That's a good point. Chalamet doesn't look like he has water to spare.
gorgon wrote: Chalamet looks like a teenaged aristocrat...which is what Paul Atreides is in Dune. He's also a terrific actor. Don't get the criticisms.
Don't even vaguely know him as an actor. It's about the impression the photos give,
As a useless accessory aristocrat, he looks fine. But this is a guy whose life revolves around two very desperate knife fights, and spends several years (off camera, admittedly) as a terrorist leader of the most formidable warriors the universe has ever produced in the most harsh environment to ever exist. But... he looks like a Raggedy Andy doll that would struggle to peel a grape.
Even on Caladan, Paul was trained and prepared. 'Water-fat' is his initial impression on the fremen, not scrawny and useless. Still capable of wrestling a killer drone to destruction
I thought he was excellent playing the same role as Henry...
gorgon wrote: Chalamet looks like a teenaged aristocrat...which is what Paul Atreides is in Dune. He's also a terrific actor. Don't get the criticisms.
Don't even vaguely know him as an actor. It's about the impression the photos give,
As a useless accessory aristocrat, he looks fine. But this is a guy whose life revolves around two very desperate knife fights, and spends several years (off camera, admittedly) as a terrorist leader of the most formidable warriors the universe has ever produced in the most harsh environment to ever exist. But... he looks like a Raggedy Andy doll that would struggle to peel a grape.
Even on Caladan, Paul was trained and prepared. 'Water-fat' is his initial impression on the fremen, not scrawny and useless. Still capable of wrestling a killer drone to destruction
I thought he was excellent playing the same role as Henry...
He was. This is the same kind of 'oh noes' commentary about casting that's dogged like every superhero film ever.
Regarding the trailer...yep, can't wait. So much for worries about the visuals with Deakins not being on the project.
I can somewhat understand them not using Jihad given that its made in the USA and given political situation is very different today to what it was when the book was written.
Not as sure about dropping Usul, unless its connections I don't know of then it might just be your typical "the audience won't get it" type of deal which can see some daft/annoying decisions made in film.
They didn't in the miniseries either, and I'm 100% fine with it. Multiple names can work in a book, but confusing for audiences in short live action works. It's just like how the LOTR films skipped some of the various names in each language for a given place.
Overread wrote: I can somewhat understand them not using Jihad given that its made in the USA and given political situation is very different today to what it was when the book was written.
Not as sure about dropping Usul, unless its connections I don't know of then it might just be your typical "the audience won't get it" type of deal which can see some daft/annoying decisions made in film.
I have a feeling that they're going to slash out all Arabic/Islamic inspiration for the Fremen due to the 'current political situation.'
Overread wrote: I can somewhat understand them not using Jihad given that its made in the USA and given political situation is very different today to what it was when the book was written.
Not as sure about dropping Usul, unless its connections I don't know of then it might just be your typical "the audience won't get it" type of deal which can see some daft/annoying decisions made in film.
I have a feeling that they're going to slash out all Arabic/Islamic inspiration for the Fremen due to the 'current political situation.'
Overread wrote: I can somewhat understand them not using Jihad given that its made in the USA and given political situation is very different today to what it was when the book was written.
Not as sure about dropping Usul, unless its connections I don't know of then it might just be your typical "the audience won't get it" type of deal which can see some daft/annoying decisions made in film.
I have a feeling that they're going to slash out all Arabic/Islamic inspiration for the Fremen due to the 'current political situation.'
Gosh, I really hope not. That would be pretty weak-kneed of them. Are people really that prejudiced? All Abrahamic religions are featured in the Dune Saga in one form or another and all have gone through millennia of evolution. The Fremen are just one representation of that potential evolution - managed, I should add, by the Bene Gesserit Missionaria Protectiva. That would be like getting rid of all the Norse influence from the Rohirrim - you'd just be left with generic horse-people. I understand you have to make a movie with broad appeal but catering to intolerance is not okay.
After seeing the trailer I can't help thinking that this looks very similar to the David Lynch film. Whether that's a good thing depends on how much you like or dislike that film I guess.
El Torro wrote: After seeing the trailer I can't help thinking that this looks very similar to the David Lynch film. Whether that's a good thing depends on how much you like or dislike that film I guess.
Personally I think the Lynch film absolutely captured the vibe and darkness and style of the Dune world. So to follow in that same line of designs is a big bonus for me.
I think the trailer was overall excellent but I found the gospel music off putting. I think going with an instrumental tune would have been better. I know there is a strong religious element to the Dune saga but I can't help but feel that maybe some sort of traditional musical chanting (like monks whether Christian or Buddhist or Mongolian throat singing) would have conveyed the theme better. It sounded more like an upbeat political ad at one point.
El Torro wrote: After seeing the trailer I can't help thinking that this looks very similar to the David Lynch film. Whether that's a good thing depends on how much you like or dislike that film I guess.
Personally I think the Lynch film absolutely captured the vibe and darkness and style of the Dune world. So to follow in that same line of designs is a big bonus for me.
I think there's a lot to like in the David Lynch film too. I just question the logic of copying that film too closely, especially since it was a box office flop.
I thought this film might take the opportunity to follow the books more closely and steer away from the first film adaptation.
I might be jumping to conclusions too soon, it's hard to tell exactly how the film is going to pan out based on the trailer.
El Torro wrote: After seeing the trailer I can't help thinking that this looks very similar to the David Lynch film. Whether that's a good thing depends on how much you like or dislike that film I guess.
Personally I think the Lynch film absolutely captured the vibe and darkness and style of the Dune world. So to follow in that same line of designs is a big bonus for me.
I think there's a lot to like in the David Lynch film too. I just question the logic of copying that film too closely, especially since it was a box office flop.
Don't forget one big weakness of the Lynch film is the latter half after he escapes into the desert. At that point Lynch was basically running out of time to fit the film into. If you've read the book you can connect a lot of the dots, but its very much a whistle-stop of huge events that are hardly touched upon before you're at the end battle. This new film is aiming to, far as I recall, only go as far as Paul escaping into the desert. It's a natural break part that they can end on and leave open to a sequel. If they get it then they'll have more than enough time to develop the second film.
I am surprised by how close the film seems to be following the visuals of the Lynch film. Even the body shields immediately reminded me of it.
The Fremen however look more Arab/Bedouin than they did in the Lynch version. I wonder if they'll have the stereotypical "this way, my friends" desert nomad accents.
So in this version, the Harkonnens are all pasty skinheads. This confirms my earlier Duncan/Sardaukar theory about that one dead bad guy without a helmet on the floor, since he doesn't look like that.
I am a bit disappointed that we still didn't get a good view of the Baron and that apparently he won't have the novel's and audio book's deep basso voice.
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warboss wrote: I think the trailer was overall excellent but I found the gospel music off putting. I think going with an instrumental tune would have been better. I know there is a strong religious element to the Dune saga but I can't help but feel that maybe some sort of traditional musical chanting (like monks whether Christian or Buddhist or Mongolian throat singing) would have conveyed the theme better. It sounded more like an upbeat political ad at one point.
I know it won't happen, but I'd really love to hear the Harkonnen theme from the PC game featured in the movie somehow:
It just oozes retro style industrial evil. And seeing how sickly all the Harkonnens look in this movie, I think they are going to promote an enviromental angle in some way.
gorgon wrote: They didn't in the miniseries either, and I'm 100% fine with it. Multiple names can work in a book, but confusing for audiences in short live action works. It's just like how the LOTR films skipped some of the various names in each language for a given place.
They might have dropped it for simplicity, or (hopefully more likely) it’s just an overdub for the trailer. An awful lot of trailers have tweaked/cut/rearranged dialogue to make the trailer as tantalising as possible, and a simple exclamation of “Paul!” is something any Joe cinema-goer is going to be able to understand.
I have to say I’m mostly very pleased with the visual elements of the trailer. The trailer music didn’t do it for me, but hopefully it isn’t indicative of the film score.
Oh, and this will absolutely flop. It has Bladerunner 2049 syndrome.
Not a huge dune fan, tho i acknowledge it's effect on wh40k. I do have some hopes for the new movie.
First off I hope they do the weirding way right instead of those steampunk boxes in the first movie.
Mainly I hope that baron harkonnen is done far better this time. I'm not sure how he can be handled in modern america. The lynch movie just made him a fat ugly evil guy. His backstory was a lot deeper and involved him being coerced into having sex with a woman against his will. Could that be shown in today's society, making a male a victim of sexual coercion? I'm not sure.
Also I'd like to see his intellect portrayed more in the new movie, plus more on why he hated the bene gessrerit so much. Let's make him a more defined and 3d character instead of the grotesque idiot he was in the lynch movie.
So now we have Paul, Lady Jessica, and Rabban cast. Lots of big roles yet to come...
scenes, but the BGs basically keep him permanently in a box. The second incarnation is basically a mystic philosopher 
