How do!

So spinning off from my thread in 40k General about tournament etiquette, I've decided to kick this thread off as a sort of progress blog. Apologies to Mods if there's a better place for this, but I couldn't see one.

And in this ongoing blog, you'll hopefully be able to follow my Hobby transformation from non-active, to taking part in and hopefully placing reasonably, in Tournaments. In short. I'm aiming to go, gaming wise from this...



To this.



And this is the full shebang. New army. Actually painting it. And to the best of my ability. Hopefully weekly games to get myself up to speed on the rules/ All culminating in attending at least one organised Tournament (possibly Blood & Glory, not sure yet).

Why? Well, for six or more years, I've been under gaming. Stupid commute takes too much time during the week, and weekends I'm usually pooped. And that's pretty rubbish, especially as my spending has continued unabated.

And I figure having an event to work toward is just the motivation I'll need to get my buns into gear, and return to the fray.

What to expect? Well, I'm aiming to paint a unit a week, and get at least one game in each week. And I'll be reporting back, including on what I've learned, and what I feel I need to focus on going forward.

Hopefully it'll prove an entertaining read over the coming months!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah. I've plumped for Genestealer Cult as my army. I've got a reasonable collection just from various boxed games, and they were my first love.

I'll be starting the gaming lessons with my Necrons though, simply because they're already a coherent army I can bung on the board right away to start learning the ropes.

Good on you. I look forward to keeping up to date with your adventures.

I expect GSC will be a tough tournament army - they are definitely a finesse kind of force where bad decisions or small mistakes will get you wiped out. Hopefully their new Codex this month will give them some new tools

That’s allot of painting (looks at all the unpint models on my desk ) hope you don’t drown under all the painting

Looking at attending first Tourny in no less than 6m.

I reckon a unit a week is achieveable, particularly as I'll be following the Warhammer TV guide (takes the palette planning out of it!). I'm also intent on adding three Manticore missile tanks to my force, so that's a nice, easy airbrush job for a chunk of my points! Even easier if I plump for Chimeras over Goliaths! (undecided on that, awaiting Codex)

I'll also be focussing on my attempts to not only re-learn the game to a competent degree, but get your standard (well, our standard!) 1,750 done and dusted to the turn limit, within the time limit.

It's going to be an interesting journey!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, I'll be having to collect over and above the 1,750 to allow for list tweaking! Possibly as much as 2,500 points. I dunno yet. These are uncharted waters!

Subscribing so I can both teach and ridicule you simultaneously. Because I love you, of course.

How optimized/competitive are you going to aim to be?

Honestly? I really don't know at this point.

For now, I'm just gonna get back on the game, get gud, and see where it takes me.

I tend to have a knack for making really quite nasty lists, without ever really meaning to. And as I never intentionally net-listed, nor sought hints and tips, a lot of my prowess comes from the leftfield, unexpected.

Take the current plan of three Manticore Missile Tanks. Me, I love the models. And game wise, they ought to provide some surprising alpha strike capability to my GSC - especially as I can fire blind!

It may be that I get properly bitten by the tournament bug, and get ever more competitive. But for now, it's just see where it goes!

Well, here we go. My first attempt at an army list in months?

This is basically cobbling together my Necrons into an 8th Ed Force, simply by bunging in what I’ve got in the collection. There is no suggestion of this being tournament worthy!

Pieced together using BattleScribe. Which was a damned sight more convenient than mucking about with the Codex!


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [105 PL, 1750pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit

+ HQ +

Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 182pts]: Artefact (Mephrit): The Voltaic Staff, Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light, Tesla Cannon
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: Gauss Blaster, 10x Immortal

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 198pts]: 18x Necron Warrior

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Heat Ray

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 115pts]: Particle Shredder

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [15 PL, 250pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 145pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes

+ Flyer +

Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]

Night Scythe [8 PL, 135pts]

++ Total: [105 PL, 1750pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In terms of efficiency, it’s rather more



Than



But for getting a game under my belt, and dusting off the old rules know-word, it’ll do!

And here’s my home board.

Yes, it is Moon Base Klaisus. Yes, it is short of the standard 6x4. But remember, this is the first toe in the water. And for that, it’ll do!

Also conscious that by most thorny standards that’s a lot of terrain. Mate playing me tomorrow is a regular tourney goer, so he’ll be able to guide me there. No point getting good on my preferred level of terrain if a Tourny can’t offer it!

It's become mostly standard that a 6x4 table will contain 5-6 largish terrain pieces, one of which should be a larger LOS blocker in the middle somewhere.

Looking about right then. That’s nice.

Also, revisited my list for today as I wasn’t happy with it.

Came up with this...


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [103 PL, 1748pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

[Reference] Warlord Traits (All)

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit

Use Beta Rules

+ HQ +

Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 182pts]: Artefact (Mephrit): The Voltaic Staff, Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light, Tesla Cannon
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Chronometron, Staff of Light

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: Gauss Blaster, 10x Immortal

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Lychguard [16 PL, 280pts]: 10x Lychguard, Warscythe

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Heat Ray

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [15 PL, 250pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 140pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer

+ Heavy Support +

Annihilation Barge [8 PL, 113pts]: Tesla Cannon

Annihilation Barge [8 PL, 113pts]: Tesla Cannon

++ Total: [103 PL, 1748pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Not radically different, but swapped the Warriors out for Lychguard, and the Fliers for Annihilation Barges. Going up against Tau I think, so could be interesting.

Yeah the knight meta really upped the need for larger terrain pieces.


Firstly in 6th and 7th, because knights were too big to receive cover from anything, and then especially in this edition where vehicle facings no longer exist.


As for your list, it looks fine, but at some point I'd get rid of the Stalker for a third AB.

Just a makeshift one for now. I’ll be gathering a GSC over the next few months for Tournies.

Hoping to give a decent account of myself today. Opponent has just nipped out for vittles! But we’re otherwise just about good to go. Dug out my 6th Objective markers, Dice located, tape measure ready, books to hand. As well as the Necron cards, which as mentioned earlier I’ve already picked out those of use for this game.

Dunnonwhich mission we’re playing though!

So from CA 2018, we’ll be playing the ‘Visions of Victory’.

Already picked out five cards, and we’re deploying as ‘Search and Destroy. And I’m deploying in the marked corner.

Opponent is deploying first, so currently kicking my heels!

Deployment for me.

No, I don’t have an idea what I’m doing!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I lost. And fairly heavily so.

Opponent did really well with his tactical objectives, whereas they’re something I still need to get my head around.

Next time, I’ll drop the Lychguard in favour of Warriors. They didn’t do much except survive!

Main learning points....

1. Terrain. TLoS needs forward planning. When choosing your deployment zone, stoop down to see what your little dudes may or may not be able to see. Quarter I chose looked good, but was actually very limiting.

2. Pay attention to where the objectives are being placed. This makes planning your Tactical Objectives that much easier. Especially when they’re your sole source of VPs (outside of First Strike etc)

3. Remember your Stratagems!

All in all, not that bad a performance. Target priority was ok for the most part, but could of course improve. Definitely looking forward to the next one, where I hope to do better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In further news, I’ve totted up my existing GSC stuff, and I’ve a little over 1,000 points (pre-Codex, oh future reader.)

This...this is actually quite pleasing, and gives me a decent core of infantry (though I blobbed entering the Neophytes, as each unit is 14 strong, when they should be 10).

Gonna wander off up GW next Saturday or Sunday, pick up a Goliath or two. I’m not ‘mad keen’ on them, but I expect they’ll prove useful regardless of how the list eventually ends up.

Nice! I would recommend the default Tactical Objective cards rather than army-specific, because 11-16 tend to be different unique objectives, rather than taking objectives 1 through 6.

Additionally, the new CA2018 objectives allow you to thin your deck of 6 objectives before each game, so that can help with poor draws.

All that being said, most tournaments run ITC mission packets, so its worth taking a look at and playing with those because the objectives tend to be much more uniform and predictable (which also impacts the way people build armies).

I'm personally not a fan of ITC, but if your goal is to work towards being tournament-ready, that's the usual gold standard to work towards.


When it comes to objectives, assuming they're not already placed via ITC rules, I usually keep a few things in mind:

I play a fairly mobile army with an aggressive playstyle. I don't like keeping in my backfield, so I tend to place objectives further up in the center of the field.

Also because of my mobility, I can move around to grab further objectives and move around easily, so I tend to keep objectives spread as far apart as possible, especially if I know my opponent is slower and I can make it harder for them to grab said objectives. Target priority in going after quick units and transports also helps to control their movement here as well. Of course, the opposite can be true if my opponent has a lot of mobile chaffy units, I might want to cluster some of them to force his units together to make it easier to hunt them down.

The game was actually fairly knife edge up the fourth turn.

He had 5 VP, but no CP. I had 3 of each. Before his fourth turn, I’d bagged Slay the Warlord, and had a plan to score 2-4 more in turn 5.

However, he literally played his cards right, and bagged 7 in turn 4.

That to me speaks volumes of how much experience counts. Especially when like me, you’re used to old VPs and just getting down to some old fashioned vaporisation. I for one feel it’s made the game somewhat more tactical. Especially with ‘acceptable casualties’!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of fast and aggressive, my deployment was fairly poor. All my nippy stuff went up the right flank.

With hindsight, the sheer firepower of 5 Destroyers, 2 Annihilation Barges, 5 Tomb Blades and a Triarch Stalker should’ve come down the left, get right up in his face.

I also need to take the time to learn my Stratagems. For instance, when my Destroyers had a crack at his Riptide, I should’ve spent a CP to re-roll all hits and wounds. For a mere 1CP, I’m confident I could’ve dropped it. That would preserved the Destroyers, and removed a huge slice of my opponent’s firepower.

You know, I think this might call for a straight ‘same list’ rematch!

Interesting project. Best of luck to you, I'll be following your journey :-)

If I was maining GSC i'd either take kronos nids for my backfield or kraken nids as my alpha/board control for allies depending on what cult models your wanting to use.


Either a battalion of kronos like so:

Nuero/Nuero
6x hive guard
2x 10 termagaunts/w fleshborer
1 ripper squad

Or Battalion of kraken like so:

Swarmlord
Malanthrope
30x hormagaunts
20x stealers
1 ripper

If you want 2 units of stealers take a broodlord.

These are the best allied detachments for GSC atm.


Obviously if your planning on doing GSC melee, take the kronos, and GSC tanks, take the kraken.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The game was actually fairly knife edge up the fourth turn.

He had 5 VP, but no CP. I had 3 of each. Before his fourth turn, I’d bagged Slay the Warlord, and had a plan to score 2-4 more in turn 5.

However, he literally played his cards right, and bagged 7 in turn 4.

That to me speaks volumes of how much experience counts. Especially when like me, you’re used to old VPs and just getting down to some old fashioned vaporisation. I for one feel it’s made the game somewhat more tactical. Especially with ‘acceptable casualties’!

and sometimes LUCK as well ...as someone mentioned earlier ... the CA18 missions allow you to remove 6 cards
with Necrons I'd suggest a good few of the 11-16 range get binned - one is keep a character alive for the whole game for 1 .. yes ONE stinking VP ... bin!
another is make 10 reanimate rolls for 1 VP - Bin!

and depending on house rules for unattainable (Master the Warp ? yeah right) cards ... you can either ditch them or depending on where you put objectives ... get rid of some that you'll never do like "Defend objective X where X is sat under his immobile castle of troops

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Speaking of fast and aggressive, my deployment was fairly poor. All my nippy stuff went up the right flank.

With hindsight, the sheer firepower of 5 Destroyers, 2 Annihilation Barges, 5 Tomb Blades and a Triarch Stalker should’ve come down the left, get right up in his face.

vs Tau, kill the troops (pathfinders and markerlights first) ignore the riptide.. if he nova charges and uses 1CP he can get a 3++ which no matter how well you roll on destroyers is going to survive a LOT ... he can also heal it and a strat lets it act at full profile ... so if you can't kill it ... kill everything else instead!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


You know, I think this might call for a straight ‘same list’ rematch!

use the same list ... drop the voltaic staff and take the Veil of dankness, get those Lychguard upfield and charging asap (they can teleport T1) buff them with the CCB for +1 to charge and hit.

Hammer and anvil him, if he focuses on the LG .. shoot the snot outta him with the immortals , he can't ignore them though as they'll get in and tie up a lot of his shooting ... if you can't kill it .. stop it shooting back

Sadly, Veil is out because he's kicking it on his pimp wagon.

I find the increased range for MWBD is useful, as is him having the extra Assault Weapon for sniping out characters.

Very nearly dropped the Riptide turn 2! Got so desperate I even rammed it with an Annihilation Barge to strip off that last wound (because slim chance of killing it is better than guarantee of it surviving). If I'd just remembered to trigger Extermination Protocols, the game would've gone very differently. But, we live and we learn!

Defo need to sharpen up my tactics. I may look into dropping the Triarch Stalker in favour of a Nightscythe. Adds in a bit more dakka, and of course could help get my Lychguard where they need to go.

And we were using CA18. Really, really nice missions. Especially our one, as we could deny each other easy VPs (I think I had a bit of a bum hand at one point. Luck of the draw though, and a canny opponent). And yes, we stripped out the 6 cards. Nice touch I felt.

For someone who's not regularly played since, erm....6th (possibly even 5th!) this is like a whole new game, spesh as I wasn't getting VPs for kills. Well, unless I had the right card.

Right, off to send him a rematch challenge. Also, turns out the local club is losing it's venue in a few weeks, as it undergoes some form of renovation. This actually works for me, as I'm one of the few peeps with the space and facilities for a home board. So I'm hoping to host a few sessions - including ones where I just observe and stick my beak in.

And finally - yes, I had an absolute blast! Game was highly enjoyable, and I hunger for more.

 DV8 wrote:
Nice! I would recommend the default Tactical Objective cards rather than army-specific, because 11-16 tend to be different unique objectives, rather than taking objectives 1 through 6.

Additionally, the new CA2018 objectives allow you to thin your deck of 6 objectives before each game, so that can help with poor draws.

All that being said, most tournaments run ITC mission packets, so its worth taking a look at and playing with those because the objectives tend to be much more uniform and predictable (which also impacts the way people build armies).

I'm personally not a fan of ITC, but if your goal is to work towards being tournament-ready, that's the usual gold standard to work towards..

ITC is more of US thing though. His flag is UK which means odds are good his standard is NOT ITC.

I honestly don't know

I do know my mates tend to go for stuff like the London GT and Blood & Glory. From what Shaun was saying yesterday, they tend to take CA missions and tweak them a bit. Though of course, with CA18 still being relatively hot off the presses, there may be no tweaking this year.

They're also going to Heats 1 and 4 of the GW 40k Tourny, with an eye to qualifying for the final.

But at the minute, it's still baby steps for me. I've just about got my head round how Strategic Objectives work - but I need to figure out how to plan my army, deployment and indeed game around them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I honestly don't know

I do know my mates tend to go for stuff like the London GT and Blood & Glory. From what Shaun was saying yesterday, they tend to take CA missions and tweak them a bit. Though of course, with CA18 still being relatively hot off the presses, there may be no tweaking this year.

They're also going to Heats 1 and 4 of the GW 40k Tourny, with an eye to qualifying for the final.

But at the minute, it's still baby steps for me. I've just about got my head round how Strategic Objectives work - but I need to figure out how to plan my army, deployment and indeed game around them.

Ok, so the LGT and B&G are more ETC style events. They essentially use a mix of 1 Eternal War mission and 1 Maelstrom mission in each game, in addition to things like first strike, linebreaker etc.

However, B&G use insane combinations – usually all the missions you never ever see in a competitive environment, so, it in itself is a completely different ball game.

GW Heats just use the CA Eternal War missions.

So, if you want game practice, I’d start by focusing on all the new missions in CA2018.

Fair enough. I actually assumed ITC was a global tournament standard (I don't actually play in ITC events, so I don't know...)

Right,

Time to set I a goal for this week. The pledge shall be....

Paint one unit of GSC Neophyte Hybrids.
Purchase another new unit. Ideally a Goliath, but depends what my local store has in stock. Possibly Purestrains, as I don’t have any with Talons. Given Talons are currently a free upgrade, and come in handy should I get swamped (extra attacks FTW), seems a wise investment.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to set up the spray booth and do some undercoating!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, an open question, if I may.

Whlist as covered I’m aiming for a 1750 point force, I am aware I’ll likely need to collect and paint more than that, to provide options and list flexibility.

For those that followed the same thinking, what do you reckon is the ‘right size’ of collection?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also, an open question, if I may.

Whlist as covered I’m aiming for a 1750 point force, I am aware I’ll likely need to collect and paint more than that, to provide options and list flexibility.

For those that followed the same thinking, what do you reckon is the ‘right size’ of collection?

Honestly, I don't think there is. Whenever I attend an event, I'll write up a list, tweak, and playtest (proxy if I have to) until I'm satisfied that it's the list I'm bringing. Then, if there are models/units I'm missing, I'll buy/paint/add them to my collection and grow the army that way. I have a tendency to stick to one list for a period of months, and I only really adjust with what I think are significant meta changes.

You'll probably be good building towards a set 1750 list, that you might tweak along the way as you get more games/experience under your belt. The great thing about playing in tournaments is it's burst-goals. You set a list based on mission pack and meta, build, and play in the event. After the event is over, you'll re-evaluate, find out what did or didn't work, consider your next event (and it's mission pack) re-consider the meta, and then tweak and re-build. And if you're playing the same army, chances are you'll now have a solid foundation of units to pick from, and it's just a matter of supplementing as you go.

Ignore whoever told you to drop a Stalker (a good necron unit post CA) for an Annihilation Barge (a mediocre-to-poor Necron unit all edition).

Anyway, best of luck with starting up the GSC. A buddy of mine is trying to get from 0 to 1750 with GSC in time for a tournament in May. I'm lucky, I only have about 1250 to paint up in that time.

 DV8 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also, an open question, if I may.

Whlist as covered I’m aiming for a 1750 point force, I am aware I’ll likely need to collect and paint more than that, to provide options and list flexibility.

For those that followed the same thinking, what do you reckon is the ‘right size’ of collection?

Honestly, I don't think there is. Whenever I attend an event, I'll write up a list, tweak, and playtest (proxy if I have to) until I'm satisfied that it's the list I'm bringing. Then, if there are models/units I'm missing, I'll buy/paint/add them to my collection and grow the army that way. I have a tendency to stick to one list for a period of months, and I only really adjust with what I think are significant meta changes.

You'll probably be good building towards a set 1750 list, that you might tweak along the way as you get more games/experience under your belt. The great thing about playing in tournaments is it's burst-goals. You set a list based on mission pack and meta, build, and play in the event. After the event is over, you'll re-evaluate, find out what did or didn't work, consider your next event (and it's mission pack) re-consider the meta, and then tweak and re-build. And if you're playing the same army, chances are you'll now have a solid foundation of units to pick from, and it's just a matter of supplementing as you go.

I would suggest having at least, a legal 2000 point army. While some of the events are 1750 points, there are still quite a few big events here in the UK running 2000 points. With that in mind, i'd build your 1750 list first, play with it a couple of times to get a feel for what you are lacking, then start filling those gaps until you hit 2000 points. You can then start to experiment with different ideas.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Ignore whoever told you to drop a Stalker (a good necron unit post CA) for an Annihilation Barge (a mediocre-to-poor Necron unit all edition).

Anyway, best of luck with starting up the GSC. A buddy of mine is trying to get from 0 to 1750 with GSC in time for a tournament in May. I'm lucky, I only have about 1250 to paint up in that time.

lmao he had the thermal stalkers which are not good unless your opponent ignores them. DDA is what I actually wanted him to swap it out for btw.

I think I'm going to give the same list another whirl. As identified, the main issues were poor deployment, and not getting to the good targets fast enough. So for now, there's enough evidence to blame the workman rather than his tools.

Fun read, I'm rooting for you man!

Regarding how many points you should have available for a 1750 list, I'd say 2250. Generally speaking my armies have the same sort of "core" even in different builds, so around 1k-1250 points are by and large unchanged between lists. Then you have another 500-750 points that can be fiddled with however you want.

I'm guessing GSC will have a few interesting options when it comes to that since you can use IG units to form some sort of backline or forgoe that entirely.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Whlist as covered I’m aiming for a 1750 point force, I am aware I’ll likely need to collect and paint more than that, to provide options and list flexibility.

For those that followed the same thinking, what do you reckon is the ‘right size’ of collection?

That actually depends a lot on a) how much you like changing lists b) what faction you play c) how future proof collection you are looking for. I don't like running identical lists with only tiny changes when rules change changing balance so that requires more options. Orks also are HUGE army in that they have lots and lots of units. Check my sig. That's actually less points than I have orks BUT it's not because I have like dozens of meganobz I rarely use! It's more of unit of this and unit of that etc. I indeed have only recently added my first unit of nobz to painting table and FA is seriously small amount...But as orks have lots of units having option to field most of units at least once adds up REAL fast. And of course then comes future proofing...With GW tinkering with rules and codexes what was good yesterday is worthless next day so if you want to be sure you don't need to paint something in a hurry when rules change just before tournament you need some more...

At least here 2k is still fairly common(either that or 1750) so if I wanted to be fairly conservative I would be aiming for 2.5k-3k myself. And accept I'll be adding to that later as well. Not sure how much options cult has though.

Yeah I agree. 2500-3000 points is the minimum for people that want to play at competitive levels. I don't know about GSC models but usually magnets are your best friend in keeping the models count limited as you don't need to buy the same unit you already have if you want to run it with different loadout (it may happen quite frequently with the current GW trend of changing the rules with FAQs or other books like CA).

An example: ork nobz in this edition had their flavor with all the three basic melee combinations, PK, big choppa and choppa. Since you need them to lead boyz squads but also the full nobz squad is good you may want 15ish of them. Without magnets you're either stuck on the options you glued on them or you need 30-40 nobz to cover all the possibilities.

Ah I'm not too bothered about model count If I need to buy some extra sets to have an array of Special/Heavy weapons, I'm good with that.

YMMV of course, only speaking for my own pocket.

For GSC, that'll typically mean two HW per box, and two SW per box, leaving me six Spods. As I tend to max out weapon slots, that should allow me to equip the Spods with Autoguns, as the majority I have are Shotgun armed. All about flex - spesh as currently, I can mix up Autogun and Shotgun in a unit.

All part of my blundering about in the dark trying to get a handle on it.

Oh yeah! This weeks self-set target? First squad Acolytes sprayed Mechanicus Standard Grey. Will likely do a bit of Abaddon Black tonight, maybe make a start basecoating the weapons too. Reckon little and often may be the key to my own painting success.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ah I'm not too bothered about model count If I need to buy some extra sets to have an array of Special/Heavy weapons, I'm good with that.

YMMV of course, only speaking for my own pocket.

For GSC, that'll typically mean two HW per box, and two SW per box, leaving me six Spods. As I tend to max out weapon slots, that should allow me to equip the Spods with Autoguns, as the majority I have are Shotgun armed. All about flex - spesh as currently, I can mix up Autogun and Shotgun in a unit.

All part of my blundering about in the dark trying to get a handle on it.

Oh yeah! This weeks self-set target? First squad Acolytes sprayed Mechanicus Standard Grey. Will likely do a bit of Abaddon Black tonight, maybe make a start basecoating the weapons too. Reckon little and often may be the key to my own painting success.

Yup, whatever works for you! One of the reasons why I love Necrons is that there are almost no upgrade options available, which makes collecting them very simple.

And I subscribe to the hour or two a night method. Between work and school, I don't have long bursts to paint so I try and get myself to do a little every day.

 Eihnlazer wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Ignore whoever told you to drop a Stalker (a good necron unit post CA) for an Annihilation Barge (a mediocre-to-poor Necron unit all edition).

Anyway, best of luck with starting up the GSC. A buddy of mine is trying to get from 0 to 1750 with GSC in time for a tournament in May. I'm lucky, I only have about 1250 to paint up in that time.

lmao he had the thermal stalkers which are not good unless your opponent ignores them. DDA is what I actually wanted him to swap it out for btw.

DDA is great, but Annihilation Barges really do suck. I agree thermal Stalker can be a bit meh in a lot of matchups, but it's same pts as THGC Stalker which is solid. Anyway, don't want to drift off topic too much.

NooB Question...

Am I reading it right, and models with multiple ranged weapons can shoot them all?

Because if so, that’s 3 shots a turn from my Neophytes with Shotguns?

Apart from pistols and grenades. But if you have 2 rapid fire/assault/heavy weapons fire away. In h2h also having say two 2 handed weapons or 2 handed+1 handed is no worries(so for ork nobs big choppa+choppa is popular combo).

Wonder why imperium doesn't simply give 10000 bolters to one captain ;-) That would be lots of BS2+ shots from one guy ;-)

In your case no though as pistol is not okay. With pistols it specifically says you choose pistol(s) or non-pistols. With grenades it specifically says instead of shooting other weapons. For some reason shooting lascannon and bolter would be easier than firing bolt pistol and bolt gun.

Ah fair enough

tneva82 wrote:
Apart from pistols and grenades. But if you have 2 rapid fire/assault/heavy weapons fire away. In h2h also having say two 2 handed weapons or 2 handed+1 handed is no worries(so for ork nobs big choppa+choppa is popular combo).

Wonder why imperium doesn't simply give 10000 bolters to one captain ;-) That would be lots of BS2+ shots from one guy ;-)

In your case no though as pistol is not okay. With pistols it specifically says you choose pistol(s) or non-pistols. With grenades it specifically says instead of shooting other weapons. For some reason shooting lascannon and bolter would be easier than firing bolt pistol and bolt gun.

I think the abstraction is that sidearms aren't usually kept drawn, and grenades need to be primed. So it takes extra effort to "draw" the pistol or "ready" the grenade.

IanVanCheese wrote:

DDA is great, but Annihilation Barges really do suck. I agree thermal Stalker can be a bit meh in a lot of matchups, but it's same pts as THGC Stalker which is solid. Anyway, don't want to drift off topic too much.

The Particle Shredder or the THGC are the way to go. THGC gives you that extra range, so it's purely a support piece. The Particle Shredder can be good as a mid-range piece, and it has the potential to do some nasty work.

Annihilation Barges, even with the points drop, are still garbage, and it's primarily because the Twin Tesla Destructor is a piece of garbage. It's like hitting opponents with a sack of kittens.

DDAs are definitely a top tier unit, and I usually field 3.

 DV8 wrote:


Annihilation Barges, even with the points drop, are still garbage, and it's primarily because the Twin Tesla Destructor is a piece of garbage. It's like hitting opponents with a sack of kittens.

That might hurt or they might die form the cuteness of the kittens.... or many the kittens are Korn kittens ;D.
Saying all that though I don’t play necrons so my knowledge of them is very limited.

Emperors will wrote:

 DV8 wrote:


Annihilation Barges, even with the points drop, are still garbage, and it's primarily because the Twin Tesla Destructor is a piece of garbage. It's like hitting opponents with a sack of kittens.

That might hurt or they might die form the cuteness of the kittens.... or many the kittens are Korn kittens ;D.
Saying all that though I don’t play necrons so my knowledge of them is very limited.

Assault 8, Rng 24", S7, AP0, D1, on a platform that costs 100 points (T6, W8, Sv4+, with Quantum Shielding).

It's bad.

I dunno. I found mine to be quite flexible in the game. They were certainly enough to keep my opponent’s head down.

Sure, a point of AP on the big boys wouldn’t go amiss (ably demonstrated when they were in half range, being Mephrit), but I enjoyed fielding them

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I dunno. I found mine to be quite flexible in the game. They were certainly enough to keep my opponent’s head down.

Sure, a point of AP on the big boys wouldn’t go amiss (ably demonstrated when they were in half range, being Mephrit), but I enjoyed fielding them

Oh for sure, in casual games they're certainly not bad. But when you're optimizing a list for tournament play, 120 points could be better spent on other things (40 points more buys you a DDA, for example). It's just one of those things where I feel other units do what it does, better.

I....I.....I may have just upped the stakes somewhat.

Mate of mine has always fancied doing the LVO. But flying in from the UK, kind of cost prohibitive once you factor in the room.

Yet, 2020? I'm game. Literally. I'm game.

Need to crack on, get a GSC army assembled, painted and bashed into efficiency. Get some tournaments under my belt this year, then be ready!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, my journey from Chump to Champ (or at least, Chump that has a painted army, but isn't terribly good with it!) may be coming to a podcast near you soon.

Friend of mine owns and runs Tabletop Gaming Events. It's relatively new, and he's looking for extra content. So naturally, I've not considered the consequences and just gone ahead and shoved my bonce into that Lion's mouth!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I....I.....I may have just upped the stakes somewhat.

Mate of mine has always fancied doing the LVO. But flying in from the UK, kind of cost prohibitive once you factor in the room.

Yet, 2020? I'm game. Literally. I'm game.

Need to crack on, get a GSC army assembled, painted and bashed into efficiency. Get some tournaments under my belt this year, then be ready!

Something to bear in mind is that LVO is an ITC event (the culmination of the ITC season, actually), and so you'll need to play with and familiarize yourself with ITC 40k (which is very unlike "normal" 40k, particularly in the way objectives are scored). Armies built for Maelstrom or Eternal War missions are typically very different from ITC (which also impacts the way you tend to play the game).

Yep good suggestion to get used to itc. Might not get tournaments with it but at least some non tournament games will be good

Seems smaller, more local ones near me use ITC. So hopefully I’ll be well served.

But now is also the time to start saving!

Gah!

Totes forgot I was working yesterday. So painting plans are delayed. Yes, two weeks in and I’m already behind!

However, four days off next week, and it’s payday. I expect to get the back of the first Neophyte unit broken on Friday (will have had a chance o pick up the paints I need), and then another unit done and dusted by the Monday. Possibly also some Acolytes.

And in other developments, I may have set off a chain reaction whereby a good chunk of my local club will be off to the LVO in either 2020 or 2021....

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Gah!

Totes forgot I was working yesterday. So painting plans are delayed. Yes, two weeks in and I’m already behind!

However, four days off next week, and it’s payday. I expect to get the back of the first Neophyte unit broken on Friday (will have had a chance o pick up the paints I need), and then another unit done and dusted by the Monday. Possibly also some Acolytes.

And in other developments, I may have set off a chain reaction whereby a good chunk of my local club will be off to the LVO in either 2020 or 2021....

Hey man, if you ever need speed painting tips, you let me know.

And I think the best part of attending these tournaments, especially non-local ones, is going with a group. So many memories!

I’m following Duncan’s vid on Warhammer TV.

May not do the further highlighting. But defo working to get it tabletop standard, and nice and uniform.

I might experiment with a very thin brown was on the skin. Get them looking suitably grimey.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In terms of army, I’ve been tweaking around with BattleScribe.

Turns out I can add in two Goliath Trucks, and I’m at 1750. Unless of course the Codex drops points across the board.

The three Manticores I’m torn on. They’re definitely going in the list, but I’m thinking how best to use them.

They don’t need LoS of course, and with their ridiculous range, I can tickle nearly any part of the board. Question is, do I first strike against big stuff I don’t much fancy fighting, or do I use them to blat enemy infantry squads, to try to reduce their objective holding optione from the get go?

Hydra's would be better in my opinion.

They are far more useful over the course of the game. Especially in ITC format.

All about overwhelming them in the first turn, as I don't need LoS.

If I can get good at target assignation, I could cause merry hell with their plans. Sort of 'look for the lynchpin, and give a good yank'.

Aaaaand the day before payday, the Manticore Rocket Tank is back in stock.

It’s a sign! A sign I tells ya! A sign from the not-four-armed-definitely-only-two-certainly-only-the-requisite-number-of-limbs Emperor!

First of two Manticores now built, barring the tracks. Second one going in the workshop tonight I reckons.

GSC Codex to be pre-ordered this weekend. May get an extra character too, but may wait until I've had a read of the 'Dex, then form a shopping list from there.

In terms of the LVO next year or 2021? Well, believe it or not from my youthful visage and veritable mane of hair, I'm 40 next year. And my parents have offered to pay for the necessary flights too and from.....

I assume you've read the recent blurb on them on the Warhammer Community website.

If you play Infinity at all, your army gets camo markers. CAMO MARKERS! So many fun mind games to be had!

I have, and I am fully tumescent with delight!

Off to GW after work to grab the last paints I need (having bought the wrong ones last week. I was horribly ill, in my defence!)

In theory, Fat Paul is joining me on Saturday for a long old painting sesh too.

Have you had a chance to take a look at the GSC book now that it's been released?

I'm taking a gander and my immediate impression is that a lot of their gimmick is going to be abusing their Ambush tokens. Their Cult Creeds are also really interesting, and will really impact (or be impacted) by the units you take/want to take. I think Nomadic Survivalists would probably be my go to, although I'd have to write up some lists to see. I really love the Jackals but they're expensive $$ wise and cheap as chips points wise, so an entire army of them probably wouldn't be economically feasible...or good...

Aberrants are also pretty good I think.

At the moment, no due to a small hiccup in finances. But this weekend I shall be up and about town to grab a copy.

I feel Ambush is so good, it's one I may not actually overly use... See, I may never end up on the top tables, but I'm hoping to be that thorn in the side of even the best players, who will struggle (hopefully) to win big against me.

And that means doing the unexpected, defying convention, and really really really learning my own force, inside and out.

Defo getting more Aberrants though. Too much temptation to 'A Perfect Ambush' with them, and watch them wreck face.

Current 'cunning' (aka, probably bobbins) plan is to reduce my opponent's scoring units ASAP. The three Manticores can put a dent in pretty much anything, and the Aberrants can help to either tackle something else, or remove a particularly stubborn stain, whilst having a chance at standing up to retaliatory fire in my opponents next turn.

And looking at some of the 'feared' lists at the LVO, stuff like 7 fliers, I'm all about seizing and maintaining that first turn pressure, whilst my little cheap spods scamper about seizing objectives (almost definitely going to be spending that 1CP to keep mine secret, every single game). After all, the fliers will no doubt take their toll, and the Manticore's days will be numbered....but that doesn't matter a damn if my opponent is struggling to actually bag any VPs.

Perhaps it'll work. Perhaps it'll choke. Strikes me as Even Stevens whether I'll go down as the Scrotey Little Upstart David That Aimed His Sling For A Podshot, or just be a greasy smear on the way to everyone else's resounding victories.

Long as I git gud enough to stand my ground and at least have a chance of an interesting game, I'm good! Though I would still secretly like to be an awful tyrant of bizarre ideas my opponents didn't see coming and couldn't possibly react to

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
At the moment, no due to a small hiccup in finances. But this weekend I shall be up and about town to grab a copy.

I feel Ambush is so good, it's one I may not actually overly use... See, I may never end up on the top tables, but I'm hoping to be that thorn in the side of even the best players, who will struggle (hopefully) to win big against me.

And that means doing the unexpected, defying convention, and really really really learning my own force, inside and out.

Defo getting more Aberrants though. Too much temptation to 'A Perfect Ambush' with them, and watch them wreck face.

Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor will be the perfect cult to use as well, since you add +1 to charge/advance rolls for units on the turn they appear, so even a poor roll of 1 or 2 puts you within an easy 7 or 6" charge. It also gives you access to 'A Plan Generations In The Making' to basically Nope key strats (re: Knights), although that's a LOT of CP. You'll definitely want a Clamavus and Nexos to try and regen some CP.

Current 'cunning' (aka, probably bobbins) plan is to reduce my opponent's scoring units ASAP. The three Manticores can put a dent in pretty much anything, and the Aberrants can help to either tackle something else, or remove a particularly stubborn stain, whilst having a chance at standing up to retaliatory fire in my opponents next turn.

So I don't know what interactions you have planned vis-a-vis Regimental doctrines and orders. The Brood Brothers rule allows you to have one detachment that is Astra Militarum and still be Battle Forged, but you essentially lose all detachment abilities, regimental doctrines, strategems, orders, relics, etc for that detachment from the Astra Militarum book. It's a steep tax. Is it worth it? Not quite sure.

And looking at some of the 'feared' lists at the LVO, stuff like 7 fliers, I'm all about seizing and maintaining that first turn pressure, whilst my little cheap spods scamper about seizing objectives (almost definitely going to be spending that 1CP to keep mine secret, every single game). After all, the fliers will no doubt take their toll, and the Manticore's days will be numbered....but that doesn't matter a damn if my opponent is struggling to actually bag any VPs.

If you're playing ITC, you don't use mission cards. So there's no such thing as secret mission objectives (not quite sure what the interaction would be with the 4x Secondary objectives,...but that would be pretty cool if GSC were allowed to keep those secret).

IMO you're probably going to want to stack a lot of your objective campers as Cult of the Rusted Claw. Having +1 armor against AP 0 or -1 attacks is phenomenal, and MSU Jackals with Demo charges and Quad-bike Mining Lasers make really quick, durable objective grabbers (especially with -1 to Hit against them)! There's also a fantastic strat, 'A Telepathic Summons'. 2 CP, a Psyker basically forgoes casting powers and you get to bring a new infantry or biker unit with Cult Ambush worth power level 3D6 (so average 10.5). I would bring a Magus specifically for this purpose. 20 Hybrids with Hand Flamers is only 11 power, and Jackals are cheap as chips as well (3 power for every 4 bikers, +2 for each Wolfquad).

The only downside is you'd have to buy and paint a lot of spare models. I would almost say 3x Battalion (easy given how cheap GSC units are) is almost mandatory given how CP hungry your army is going to be.

Manticores are defo worth it, simply because they bring a lot of range muscle my army otherwise almost entirely lacks. And not being particularly common even in AM lists, hopefully something my opponents won't see coming.

Still a lot of play testing to do of course, so plans may shift!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Manticores are defo worth it, simply because they bring a lot of range muscle my army otherwise almost entirely lacks. And not being particularly common even in AM lists, hopefully something my opponents won't see coming.

Still a lot of play testing to do of course, so plans may shift!

Actually depending on your target, 5 Jackals with Demolition Charges combined with the 'Extra Explosives' stratagem will do some serious damage. 5D6 S8 AP3 D3 damage, for only 75 points. And of course, hitting on 3's because you took a Jackal Primus!

Also, 20 Neophytes 'Lying In Wait' with Hand Flamers is ridonk for clearing out hordes (re: Orks).

I’m hoping to not be overly reliant on CP, at least not to begin with.

I’d rather git gud with the basic stuff, so I can properly learn how to get the most out of them. From there, look how I might spend CP to really apply the pressure.

Codex is now in hand, so guess it’s time to kick off a bit of list writing, see what I can hammer my existing collection into. Defo got at least 1250 by my reckoning, so will use that a few times, then decide what new stuff I may or may not want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having had some time to go over the Codex....

Going to continue with the 3 x Manticore idea, as I’m happy their capacity for first turn shenanigans is worth it.

Other than that, I’m considering 6 troop choices, a mix of Aco and Neo Hybrids. Intent there is shenanigans to get them occupying objectives ASAP, for the easy racking up of VPs.

For extra muscle, a nice slice of Aberrants accompanied by an Abominant (with the ‘no overwatch against him’ relic...).

Concept as mentioned is all about piling on the early pressure, and scoring VPs as quickly as possible. In an ideal world, the Manticores and Aberrants will do much of the heavy lifting when it comes to duffing up the opposition. Initial targets will depend on my opponents list. If he’s gone infantry light, I may try to squelch what he has brought along. That should let me have Command over objective holding. If he’s gone for some high point value Nasties like Knights or similar, they’ll get some high explosive artillery lovin’, and possibly cow tipped by the Abominant just to polish the buggers off. Really does depend on how I best go about controlling the flow and generally frustrating my opponent.

First list is prepped.

Comes in a smidge under 1,000, but gives me an idea of what the core of my larger army will look like. Figure if I can get good with the core, the rest will fall into place.

Ready?

Abominant
Warlord, with Biomorph Adaptation and Amulet of the Voidwyrm

Magus
2 x Familiars, Autopistol and Force Stave (really not sure if I need to be declaring powers at this stage? I think I am?)

15 Neophytes with shotguns

15 Neophytes with shotguns

15 Neophytes, Autoguns, 2 Grenade Launchers, 2 Mining Lasers

10 Acolytes, Handflamers

10 Acolytes, Handflamers

10 Acolytes, Handflamers

Kelermorph

Sanctus, Silencer Sniper Rifle

5 Aberrants, Hypermorph, 5 Power Hammers

5 Aberrants, Hypermorph, 5 Power Hammers

Concept is as I’ve intended all along. Use the Troops to flood and hold objectives. Acolytes pop up from the sewers, Neophytes are Bliptastic (Autogun unit intended to go up high if possible, and try to plink stuff)

Kelermorph and Sanctus just Do Their Job, and try to force enemy characters to keep their heads down

Aberrants and Abominant are of course the raw muscle, there to wade into whatever needs a good shoeing and give them said good shoeing. Also to attract enemy firepower away from the Troops.

Cult wise, I’m going Rusted Claw. Whilst I’ve no Jackals, their armour boost is most welcome on the Hybrids, who, in theory, will be hugging cover as much as possible. Against AP0, I go from a piddling 5+ armour to a far more tasty 3+, meaning my opponent better bring some Big Dakka against them, or face frustration.

At least tournaments here powers are declared with list BUT before game you can change them. Think of powers listed as default powers unless otherwise specified. Not sure how they are handled in tournaments you attend of course

Pretty much as I thought.

Happy to declare as part of my list. But if I can select game to game, fair enough.

And a wee shopping bag drawn up for Friday, which is payday.

2 sets of Aberrants, 1 Abominant and 2 boxes of Acolyte Hybrids. Should give me enough to be cracking on with. And also, I think just about fills out the list above, ready for some actual gaming.

From there, I’ll likely do a box a week bought, built and painted.

ITC events you pre-select powers as part of your list, and they remain the same for the entire event.

I honestly think the Patriarch is just better than the Abominant. He buffs Aberrants to hit on 2+, and with Might From Beyond, , makes them base S6 with A3.

And truthfully, I think as much as you want to steer clear of using CPs for Stratagems, I think the real strength of the codex lies in their Stratagems. Without them, the codex is just...meh. But the tricks they can pull with strats can really do some nasty things.

True on the strats. But, if I can get good with meh, I may prove unstoppable with them.

I guess it’s a psychological gamble. From what I’ve read, it seems the ‘top tier’ lists (not the players, there’s a definite distinction) depend on their Strats and their Bubblebuffs to wreck face.

And that makes me wonder how many opponents I’ll face will have a solid plan should I start eroding those synergies early on.

Abominant for now is just part of the 1k Points ‘this will be my core’ list. Once I’ve got some experience, it will naturally be revisited and tweaked as necessary.

There's very good reason why people use strategems to max. They WORK. GW made them essential in 8th. 8th ed is all about strategems. If you don't use it you are like giving 20% extra points to your opponent easily.

There is that.

But not relying on them in the early days isn’t the same as not using them at all. And I’m lucky enough to have competent competitive players willing to be guinea pigs.

And in terms of filth, and making a list opponent’s would find challenging? I can get two Vanguard Detachments for 230 points each. Both provide a Jackal Alphus, Kelermorph, Shooty Sanctus and a Locus. That’s potentially three each of the nastiest of Nasties, and all but certain death (damn the dice gods!) for enemy characters everywhere. And I’m confident two Kelermorphs can also pour serious pain on most, if not all, infantry.

Honestly, I would expect to bring 3x Battalions.

I'd have to play-test; this is my initial thoughts on what I would want to bring, focused on playing the objective game, blocking opponents, and abusing Telepathic summons and (potentially) Lying in Wait every turn.

Cult of the Four Armed Emperor Battalion
- Patriarch, Warlord (Biomorph Adaption), Broodmind Discipline (Psychic Stimulus, Might from Beyond), Relic (Amulet of the Voidwyrm), 2 Familiars
- Primus, Bonesword
- Sanctus
- Clamavus
- Locus
- Nexos
- 10 Aberrants, 8 Power Picks, 2 Heavy Improvised Weapons, Rending Claws, 2 Hypermorph Tails

Rusted Claw Battalion
- Magus
- Jackal Alphus
- Sanctus (melee)
- Kelermorph
- Brood Infantry Squad, Mortar
- Brood Infantry Squad, Mortar
- Brood Infantry Squad, Mortar
- Cult Leman Russ, Battle Cannon, 3x Heavy Bolters
- Cult Leman Russ, Battle Cannon, 3x Heavy Bolters
- Cult Leman Russ, Battle Cannon, 3x Heavy Bolters

Twisted Helix Battalion
- Magus
- Jackal Alphus
- Sanctus (melee)
- Kelermorph
- Brood Infantry Squad, Mortar
- Brood Infantry Squad, Mortar
- Brood Infantry Squad, Mortar

Total: 1995 pts
Command Points: 18

Before the battle begins, you spend 1 CP to play Broodcoven to give your Four-Armed Primus the Warlord Trait (Inscrutible Cunning). You can pick either Magus and give them whatever trait, I don't care. You're hoping to roll a 2 or 3 on the D3 to gain 1 or 2 additional CP, taking you to either 19 or 20 total.

The Sanctus will let you play Scanned Decoys for free for extra camo tokens, and 1 CP for Meticulous Planning if you want to play wack-a-mole funsies.

There are some neat relics you can take too; The Gift from Beyond and The Sword of the Four-Armed Emperor caught my eye; is it worth spending the CP for Grandsire's Gifts? Maybe. This is up to you, and not a must IMO.

Patriarch pairs with and buffs the Aberrants. The Primus makes them hit on 2+. Clamavus gives them +1" Advance and Charge (which, in addition to the Cult ability, means they add +2" to their charge on the turn they arrive). A Perfect Ambush for 3 CP will move them D6" and allow them to charge, ensuring that you all but make that guaranteed charge. You'll probably be spending 2 CP for either Monstrous Vigour on them every turn, or 1 CP to Return to the Shadows so they can go ambush something else, again using A Perfect Ambush to pull that charge off.

Every turn, you spend 2 CP on Telepathic Summons to bring on an average 10-11 power unit. Rusted Claw Magus to bring in shooting units/bikes, Twisted Helix if you plan to bring on combat units (+1 Strength, +2" to Advance rolls). Just some ideas of units you can bring in:
- 4 Atalan Jackals is 3 pwr, guaranteed with 3D6. You'll be able to add more Jackals/Wolf Quads depending on your roll. 2 CP for Lying in Wait and 1 CP for Extra Explosives to just suicide-squad up to 5 Demolition Charges
- 10 Purestrain Genestealers is 10 pwr
- 20 Hybrids is 11 pwr (or 15 at 9 pwr if you're unlucky) with hand flamers. 2 CP for Lying in Wait and just watch the world burn.
- 10 Metamorphs is 6 pwr
- 5 Aberrants is 7 pwr
- A Kelermorph or another combat Sanctus is 3 pwr, because you like breaking rules

Having a Cult of the Four Armed gives you access to the 3 CP A Plan Generations in the Making strat to just nope-card your opponent's strategems.

Well, here’s my hypothetical 1750.

As discussed earlier, I’m aiming for resilient Hybrids bagging all the objectives early on, so I can start racking up easy VPs (I appreciate ITC format will necessitate a different tack) pretty much regardless of the cards I draw.

You can probably tell I’m a bit of a NooB, but wrote:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [66 PL, 1092pts, 8CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

[Reference] Ambush Markers

[Reference] Discipline: Broodmind

[Reference] Power: Smite

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw

Detachment CP [5CP]

Insurrectionists

Use Beta Rules

+ HQ +

Abominant [6 PL, 105pts]: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Biomorph Adaptation

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 70pts]: 9x Acolyte Hybrid
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 79pts]
. 9x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 9x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 79pts]
. 9x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 9x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Neophyte Hybrids [6 PL, 75pts]: 14x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun)
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [6 PL, 99pts]: 12x Neophyte Hybrid
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Mining Laser
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [6 PL, 75pts]: 14x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun)
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Aberrants [7 PL, 160pts]
. 4x Aberrant (Hammer): 4x Heavy Power Hammer
. Aberrant Hypermorph (Hammer): Heavy Power Hammer

Aberrants [7 PL, 160pts]
. 4x Aberrant (Hammer): 4x Heavy Power Hammer
. Aberrant Hypermorph (Hammer): Heavy Power Hammer

Kelermorph [3 PL, 60pts]

Sanctus [3 PL, 60pts]: Silencer Sniper Rifle

++ Total: [66 PL, 8CP, 1092pts] ++


++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 429pts, 1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Astra Millitarum

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Manticore [8 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter

Manticore [8 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter

Manticore [8 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter

++ Total: [26 PL, 1CP, 429pts] ++


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [12 PL, 225pts, 1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

[Reference] Ambush Markers

Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw

Detachment CP [1CP]

Insurrectionists

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Elites +

Biophagus [2 PL, 35pts]

Kelermorph [3 PL, 60pts]

Sanctus [3 PL, 60pts]: Silencer Sniper Rifle

++ Total: [12 PL, 1CP, 225pts] ++

It’s somewhat unusual, and I’m largely open to tweaking what sits where in the GSC Detachments to give some flex in terms of Creeds. And there’s definitely room for some tweaking.

But overall, it should be a good start. Manticores provide some very early oomph. The multiple assassin types can, potentially, depending on deployment options and opportunity, deal with enemy characters toot bloody suite.

All about being cunning, with a mix of precision and outright hammer blow attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry if the list is a bit hard to read! Imported from BattleScribe, but I hope you can muddle through.

One thing to keep in mind is that per Brood Brothers rule, you can take Astra Militarum units in Genestealer Cult Detachments without breaking the ability to take/use a Creed.

Moving those Manticores to a GSC detachment frees up room for a 3rd Detachment if you so chose, without locking yourself into an Astra Militarum one.

Think I need to re-read that bit in my Codex!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pretty sure AM needs to be a separate detachment?

You are probably correct; I might have been misreading the "you can include ASTRA MILITARUM units and GENESTEALER CULT units in the same matched play army..." portion to mean detachment.

Okay, so yea you'll need a 3rd detachment for Astra Militarum Manticores.

Hmmmmm.

There’s a further idea dribbling out my brain...

Given my overall plan, I’ve been thinking of trying to squeeze in a Wyvern. For its points, it offers an awful lot of pretty reliable anti-infantry firepower. And like the Manticores, doesn’t require LoS. 4D6 S4 shots, which re-roll Wounds is awfully, awfully tempting.

Now I can easily squeeze it into my theoretical 2,000 point Tourny list. In fact, I can shove one Manticore into a battery with his mate, and take two Wyverns as a battery.

Upside is that it gives me serious options when playing for Tactical Objectives. Deployed right, their 48” range can cover most of, if not all of the board. Whilst the Manticores busy themselves giving big stuff a good blatting, Wyverns start on my opponent’s Troops choices. And as I’m gambling on better board control than my foe, that could be the icing on the cake?

Don't forget that ITC terrain rules means that first floors are all solid walls. It's much easier to hide and protect infantry squads with mortars than it is vehicles.

Being able to keep all your vehicles out of LoS is heavily dependent on the amount and type of terrain at the tables, so I'd be wary of trying to cram too many vehicles in hoping they won't get picked off.

Do I like the idea? Absolutely. I'm just not sure if it'll pan out like you think it will in an ITC tournament environment.

Oh it’s not so much keeping my stuff out of LoS (I mean, it’s nice if I can!), so much as having stuff my opponent cannot hide from.

In theory, they free up my Hybrids, at the same time as supporting them. If for instance, there’s a nasty looking horde of Boyz hellbent on giving me a kicking, a couple of Wyverns, a liberal dousing from Handflamers and then an Acolyte charge ought to put a pretty big dent in them.

They also massively help with trying to ensure my opponent’s infantry are in no shape to easily contest objectives.

Not all the events I attend will be ITC, so I may well end up with two lists overall. One for ITC, one for other things.

I really do think I may be on to something, tactically speaking. Between the sneaky Shooty Assassin types, the artillery, and me be able to populate pretty much whichever objectives I please, my opponent may be at a loss as to what to tackle first, giving me further advantage. After all, indecision turns to poor decision in the blink of an eye. I just need to be on the ball enough to know where and when to strike myself!

Wyvern gives you 4d6 shots. 9 mortars give you 9d6. Don't think wyvern's guns stats are worth having less than half the shots.

I’ll look into it to be sure.

Main concern is how much squishier Brood Bros might prove.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Got me some new toys today.

Pair of Sanctus (Scanti?), and Starn’s Disciples, giving me a Killermorph and some Acolytes.

Sadly, some total bum bag got there before me and snaffled the Aberrants and Abominant I was hoping to grab. But not to worry!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I caved and did a mail order from Element Games (do not take this as an endorsement of them. For balance, other stuff I have in hand was bought from Dark Sphere).

Aberrants x 2, Abominant and a Jackal Alphus.

Also picked up CA:18, so will be giving it a good going over.

Reckon I want to play each mission at least once as part of my training. Even if they’re not used in the Tournies I end up attending, they do offer decent variety, so should keep me on my toesies.

Booked a week off work for the end of March.

By then, I should have all the models I need bought. So the time off shall be spent in a painting frenzy

Well, due to circumstances beyond my control, things aren’t currently going to plan. Lot going on in private life, which is proving somewhat draining.

But, I have at least made a start on painting some Hybrids. Just a squad of ten so far, but at least it’s something.

Private life can be an intrusive bugger, Dok, but don't let them grind you down! Enjoying following this :-)

Oh well, best laid plans etc!

With life having taken quite the run up, and missed both my legs, Things Have Not Gone As Planned.

To the point I'm changing army, and switching to Chaos Knights. They're shiny, they're stompy, and they're pretty easy to paint. And if bought at Online Discount, really quite affordable.

But, as a Tournament Etiquette question....Relics, and the Relic Stratagem.

In theory, it could be argued that because the extra ones are spent pre-game, I could wait to see your force composition and deployment, then slotting in the Relics I think best confound you.

But that strikes me as poor sportsmanship - and I suspect (only suspect) that Tournaments won't allow that - instead my list is set, and I remain committed to spending those CP regardless?

As with anything that is a grey area, there's only one true answer - check with the TO before the event.

And/or email the GW FAQ email address, as maybe they can put something about how they would intend that to work in the next Big FAQ

Here deployment is considered part of game so no changing relics once that starts. However pregame opponent list is public domain so changing what and how many relics you change there after seeing opponent list is up to you. If you declare no changes then as per your list. How it's in your tournament i don't know.

Reckon I'll follow Dysartes' suggestion and email GW's FAQ team.

See, once upon a time, in Old Warhammer, Wizards and that usually had a choice of Spell Lores to choose from. And it wasn't until 8th Edition that the selection of Lore was made when adding the Caster to your army.

And that made quite a difference. For instance, some armies (such as Ogres) had basically one, maybe two Lores to choose from. But Empire Battle Wizards and High Elves could choose any of the 8 main lores. Given those tended be quite specialised, in a Tournament setting, being able to 'wait and see' benefitted certain armies far more than others.

Hey ho.

Anyways, progress of a sort. Got my first Moirax Lightning Lock Knight, awaiting clean up of the resin, assembly and painting.

I'm hoping to have a fully painted Knight army by the end of the year. Which seems doable. I'm always happier painting big things than fiddling around with Infantry

Are you planning to attend GW tournaments? Because that's where GW answer would really matter. If you want to know answer applicable to your situation you need to get in contact with whoever organizes tournaments you attend.

Counter arqument is that if you couldn't change most of warlord traits, relics etc would never see the light of day for being too situational. And in FLGS it would benefit people with bazillion armies over players who always play the same army. You have 5 armies and opponent has just his chaos? Safe to take vengeance for cadia relic. Vs somebody playing somebody who has other armies than chaos so don't know what opponent brings...

Also reduces rock paper scissor element which 40k has too much.

Honestly haven't thought that far ahead.

Step 1. Collect army
Step 2. Paint army
Step 3. Practice
Step 4. When sufficiently knowledgeable in rules, tournaments
Step 5.
Step 6. PROFIT!

Oh looook!

Unexpected £532 tax rebate.

Whatever will I do with that? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Step 5 is surely where you win a major ITC event?

That cash will come in handy for some competitive lists! (or one)

I think Step 5 is secretly 'flail wildly and hope for the best'.

I mean, it served me pretty well in the past