In a, quite frankly, bizzarre display, a lot stuff from Boxed games has gone to LCTB. A lot of it is only a few months old. My guess is they'll combine these into bigger boxes to reduces SKUs:

Link to list

40k

AoS

Or make them available only through Forgeworld.

The Deathworld Killzone? Aw man...

What the fudge? I haven't picked up any KT commanders yet and they are now on last chance to buy?

This is just a consequence of too many sku's and GWs breakneck release schedule. We are barely into 2019 and have seen a ton of new stuff, imagine how much they will still pump out over the next 11ish months? They are probably gonna keep clearing house for new stuff, cause the new hotness of the month is what sells, once it's time has passed then it's on to the next thing. This is just how I see it, could end up being wrong...but as the months go by I guess we shall see.

 Sqorgar wrote:
What the fudge? I haven't picked up any KT commanders yet and they are now on last chance to buy?

The Commander's box has all their rules, and the models will be available separately still. The only thing yoy loae out ate the quick reference cards and tokens. Not a huge deal in my book. I'd guess they are just clearing shelf space for new Commander sets.

GW promised 18 months of support, they didn't promise not to make it in the form or a rapid fire lineup of limited time DLCs that you have to snap buy or be left behind.

Where is this "18 months support" thing coming from?

I heard someone say that about Necromunda earlier.

its pretty much all stuff with cards in, I wonder if they're changing printers for them

I could belive they'd run the kill team stuff as a dynamic offering changing things up to offer something similar with a different new commander, and that the necromunda stuff may be headed for a combined pack

but the titanicus reaver command terminals are vital for the game so have to be being redone ( and with only 3 units I can't see a combined pack of warlord/reaver/knight would work)

 Starfarer wrote:
The Commander's box has all their rules, and the models will be available separately still. The only thing yoy loae out ate the quick reference cards and tokens. Not a huge deal in my book. I'd guess they are just clearing shelf space for new Commander sets.

I know, and it was obvious that the Commander sets themselves were a mistake (I don't think they sold particularly well and I've never seen anybody talk about buying them). In many cases, they were much more expensive than buying the models individually too. But there's a few where it isn't cheaper, and it's just free KT cards at that point. I was planning on picking up a few of those for the factions - like I may skip the Fireblade, but I lose nothing with the Primaris Librarian and Tech Priest Dominus.

I also think they are abandoning the separate commanders altogether, and we'll get stuff like the two new sets where they package commanders (possibly new models) with old models to create more valuable faction sets. I think we'll also see the earlier factions get rereleases before the other factions just because I think GW likes to mess with Thousand Sons fans.

Love seeing GW take a hit on something. Maybe they will think twice at some of their rediculous prices. Hopefully more to come.

Oh, they are dumping the KT data cards too? They must have a new starter set coming out then.

And how popular were the Necromunda tactics cards?

I'm not usually one to rag on GW, but that is because I just don't fall for their gak any more. I buy everything at 15% off or more; if there are separate releases that include rules, such as the tactics cards in the commander boxes, I just buy the regular model and use the rules anyway; and I never buy from or play in GW stores. If they release new Kill Team sets with new tactics for existing factions, and discontinue printing the previously available tactics cards, it will be extremely obnoxious. But it won't be any sweat off my back because I never need the cards anyway. I haven't purchased a single Kill Team set so far and I never plan to. If you don't absolutely have to play in a GW store in order to find opponents I recommend the same to you!

angel of death 007 wrote:
Love seeing GW take a hit on something. Maybe they will think twice at some of their rediculous prices. Hopefully more to come.

GW has posted record profits and became a £1Bn company in the last year. They've additionally offered numerous product bundles at deep discounts, which are even cheaper at online retailers, where they've reinstituted their policy for allowing retailers to sell at a discount.

GW products have always been and will continue to be expensive. Funny that you bring this complaint when discussing Kill Team, which can easily be played for under $100, including rules, figures and a bit of terrain.


More on topic, I would agree with others that this almost certainly signals a new starter set coming. Hopefully we'll get one with some of the newer Sector Mechanicus Manufactorum terrain.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Oh, they are dumping the KT data cards too? They must have a new starter set coming out then.

I don't think that's the case.

I'm thinking that they might be reworking things to sell individual faction decks. Just a hunch on my end but I know they claimed they received a lot of feedback wanting faction specific sets with art and blank cards for rosters. I asked if there were plans to sell the AdMech blank cards by themselves as I would have loooooooved more.

Not a huge surprise on the Commanders though. I'm hoping that it's because they're going to replace them with better sets.

 Starfarer wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Love seeing GW take a hit on something. Maybe they will think twice at some of their rediculous prices. Hopefully more to come.

GW has posted record profits and became a £1Bn company in the last year. They've additionally offered numerous product bundles at deep discounts, which are even cheaper at online retailers, where they've reinstituted their policy for allowing retailers to sell at a discount.

GW products have always been and will continue to be expensive. Funny that you bring this complaint when discussing Kill Team, which can easily be played for under $100, including rules, figures and a bit of terrain.


More on topic, I would agree with others that this almost certainly signals a new starter set coming. Hopefully we'll get one with some of the newer Sector Mechanicus Manufactorum terrain.

Record profits by making up their own exchange rate. It is true they have no real competition yet.. but things change everyday. The christmas battleforces and starter sets are typically a good deal, I can't fault ya on that one it is one of the times I get to get my fix.

Kill team was good..... until they offered the commander expansions now it is just getting a lot out of wack, coupled with the now indoor tile stuff, it is taking parts of 40k and possibly necromunda. Not really sure how i feel about that.

Funny that you mention sector mechanicus manufactorum terrain, considering that is a recent release and you are wanting it in a starter set..... to... get it at a discount. The only time we really get a deal from GW is in box sets and even that with Start collecting took a hit. The way to get new blood into the hobby raises up their cost.

It doesn't look good overall that a lot of these items were recently released and for their more specialty games, could also be a sign they are going to possibly phase them out, as they have done in the past with blood bowl necromunda and Epic 40k. They did a push and now will probably lose support.

 Sqorgar wrote:
What the fudge? I haven't picked up any KT commanders yet and they are now on last chance to buy?

Aren't all kill team miniatures just copied from 40k? Or are these miniatures unique to kill team? If there's other stuff like cards, I'm sure they will be available from other sources.

Baxx wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
What the fudge? I haven't picked up any KT commanders yet and they are now on last chance to buy?

Aren't all kill team miniatures just copied from 40k? Or are these miniatures unique to kill team? If there's other stuff like cards, I'm sure they will be available from other sources.

The Kill Teams come with a fluff booklet for the Kill Teams proper(Commanders just get a card detailing their fluff), Datacards with the Kill Team's "default" loadout, and a set of tokens/markers with faction specific stuff--plus datacards featuring the faction's unique Tactics and at least one or two that aren't in the book.


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angel of death 007 wrote:

Record profits by making up their own exchange rate.

They've been doing that for who knows how long. This is just one of the notable times that the GBP is weaker compared to the rest.

It is true they have no real competition yet.. but things change everyday.

This is something that gets said quite often...a lot like "They're going under!"

Kill team was good..... until they offered the commander expansions now it is just getting a lot out of wack

Do you even know what the Commander expansion does? It's a one-off character who takes up a fairly decent chunk of your Kill Team's points values.

coupled with the now indoor tile stuff, it is taking parts of 40k and possibly necromunda. Not really sure how i feel about that.

Rogue Trader box had the "indoor tile stuff" too.

Funny that you mention sector mechanicus manufactorum terrain, considering that is a recent release and you are wanting it in a starter set..... to... get it at a discount.

Kill Team came out with a brand new set of scenery at a discount.

The only time we really get a deal from GW is in box sets and even that with Start collecting took a hit. The way to get new blood into the hobby raises up their cost.

How many new players did you see jumping straight for Start Collecting sets? I saw a few, but more headed for the core game box--where they get two armies and a rulebook.

 Starfarer wrote:
... product bundles at deep discounts...

A discount, yes, but let's not get carried away.

And they're raising prises on some of those "deep discounts" in Feb.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Kill Team came out with a brand new set of scenery at a discount.

And individual buildings from that new set cost as much if not more than the Imperial Sector box did, and that had 3.5 buildings in it, so what's your point again?

The Kill Team Commanders stuff doesn't surprise me. I have played Kill Team in couple different places around town and I think only a couple people even bought the rules. I certainly don't believe many players were going to be interested in a single model addition to their kill team unless it was basically the same cost of the model without the cards.

Even then, most players I know are still in the building the core of their team phase. One of Kill Team's biggest strengths in the player can buy a couple troop boxes and play a faction they always liked but wouldn't be able to afford even a 1000 point army. A single model just wasn't going to fill the ranks of the shiny new faction the player picked up.

Probably a better strategy to include them in the starters. It kinda forces the issue and increases the perceived value of the starter. I don't know if I like just yet though. I guess I will contine to do what I have been doing, if I the Kill Team box is much more than $10 US of the troop box, I will probably just get the troop box instead. I don't really need the cards or tokens. The terrain is a mixed bag, some of it I like (Munitorum Armoured Containers set, some I think is okay (Deathworld Forest) and some seems like kinda a waste for Kill Team (Wall of Martyrs).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
... product bundles at deep discounts...

A discount, yes, but let's not get carried away.

And they're raising prises on some of those "deep discounts" in Feb.

They're raising the SC boxes by like $5?

Kill Zone bundles haven't increased in price, and the just restocked Sector Mechanicus Kill Zone is nearly 50% off the terrain contents, and that doesn't count the board, cards, etc included. The forthcoming Kill Zone Fronteris is actually cheaper than the preceding Kill Zone releases, and offers roughly twice the amount of terrain in the Moon Base Klasius set for a comparable price to that set, so again roughly 50% of the normal cost.

I'd consider those deep discounts, especially considering that most of those are also readily available at an additional 15-20% discount from online retailers.

I take it the boring Blood Bowl pitches with an extra silly side for $40 have begun to wear thin on the audience?

I'm mostly annoyed by the N17 tactics cards. I passed on a few at release time planning to get them later, then of course they all went direct-only after a short while, so then I wanted to hold off until I wanted enough direct-only stuff to justify making an order, and so now of course they just stop selling them altogether.

And I'll bet you a tenner that the vast majority of the ones that are left will get sold to scalperscum to relist on ebay as "OOP" in a couple of weeks for five times the price.

Christ GW, hurry up with your meandering pace into the modern world, eh? You've successfully managed to bring your internet presence up to the level of basically every other nerd company fifteen years ago, how about you play through the pain and catch up to 5-10 years ago and embrace Print on Demand. Not your daft "made to order" thing, proper, actual PoD where you sell digital files for people to print themselves, or partner with a PoD company so people can order out of print books, codices, cards, templates & tokens and all the other stuff from your huge back catalogue that people want but cannot get anywhere except profiteering scalperscum.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm mostly annoyed by the N17 tactics cards. I passed on a few at release time planning to get them later, then of course they all went direct-only after a short while, so then I wanted to hold off until I wanted enough direct-only stuff to justify making an order, and so now of course they just stop selling them altogether.

Me being me, I was going to get a second set of each one so that we always had 2 of all the neutral cards. Guess that's out the window now.

Boy am I glad I added the Delaque cards as an impulse buy when I got the last SC! Tempestus Scions bock from my stockist last week...

At least for titanicus the ltcb means last chance to buy before restock. Seems one can't trust meaning of lcbt from gw anymore

So what exactly is going to LCTB, purportedly? Just card expansions?

I clicked the OP link and none of the things in the U.K. LCTB section appear in the Canadian web-store LCTB section.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So what exactly is going to LCTB, purportedly? Just card expansions?

I clicked the OP link and none of the things in the U.K. LCTB section appear in the Canadian web-store LCTB section.

At least on AT(only one that I care enough to know) it was some transfer sheets, reaver command terminals and reaver weapons. Transfer sheets would have been pity as they are pretty but reaver things would have been bad. Command terminals you only get 2 per rule set(45euro piece) which isn't too bad with standard maniples but with titandeath book(or if you play big enough games you might use more than 1 maniple) there's 3-5 reaver maniple...And weapon cards? Rule set comes with 1 of each weapon card. Want to buy another reaver? Either you need to do your own card or you would need to buy 45e ruleset from which half the contents is useless.

Luckily just stock running low and restock coming. This would have made starting AT pretty darn expensive.

Somewhat alarmingly, Dark Angel Veterans/Fallen are listed as LCTB in the Canadian web-store.

So it's all just related to stock-levels? They're nearly out of DA Vets in Canada and won't be shipping any more over?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Somewhat alarmingly, Dark Angel Veterans/Fallen are listed as LCTB in the Canadian web-store.

So it's all just related to stock-levels? They're nearly out of DA Vets in Canada and won't be shipping any more over?

Wish I knew! Thing is before "last chance to buy" meant just that. Last chance. You don't buy now, you won't get them from GW ever(barring made to order batch years later). Now? Who knows because now we have at least some LCTB things that are actually "we are going to get more of stock".

Very confusing. Now there's basically no way to know! It could be stock level or it could be literally LCTB. All we know for sure is that AT stuff(at least some) are getting new stock. Rest? No idea.

GW really dropped a ball here. They have "temporarily out of stock" flag so why they don't use it and LCBT consistently I have no idea...Especially as they used to be good on that area before.

What a great new move for GW! Instead of just listing things as limited time only, they move them to LCTB a month after release instead! That undead pitch came out in what, early December? Hopefully this means we get some more neoprene pitches from FW, but doubtful

I know, and it was obvious that the Commander sets themselves were a mistake (I don't think they sold particularly well and I've never seen anybody talk about buying them). In many cases, they were much more expensive than buying the models individually too. But there's a few where it isn't cheaper, and it's just free KT cards at that point. I was planning on picking up a few of those for the factions - like I may skip the Fireblade, but I lose nothing with the Primaris Librarian and Tech Priest Dominus.

They sold okay where I live(depends on the faction though). Some of the models like the Succubus are now DO only so the KT was the only way to buy them cheaply unless you made a huge bulk DO to GW.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Oh, they are dumping the KT data cards too? They must have a new starter set coming out then.

And how popular were the Necromunda tactics cards?

I bought them for my two favourite gangs only namely Escher & Goliath and never regretted it doing so.

I am not sure how true it is but there is a rumour floating around that after the new factory expansion they are taking the printing in house.


Add salt as always but it could be good news if so

Strangely enough I am more concerned about the Dark Angel Veterans. They currently serve a dual purpose for Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines(Fallen) so I find it weird that they are moving them to Last Chance while the codexes still have entries for them.

Now, if that Vigilus campaign ends up involving the Dark Angels Fallen and it reintroduces a new kit... one can only hope I guess.

 Eldarsif wrote:
They currently serve a dual purpose for Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines(Fallen) so I find it weird that they are moving them to Last Chance while the codexes still have entries for them.

Perhaps that is exactly why, one kit two store listings.

By removing the less purchased option, Fallen, you only need to maintain the one actual kit, DA Veterans.

Customers wanting to buy Fallen shouldnt find it too hard to buy the DA Vets kit instead.

So, FWIW, Dark Angels Veterans are not explicitly listed as LCTB, only Fallen are.

However, if you go to the DA Veterans page, they have the LCTB icon too.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Now, if that Vigilus campaign ends up involving the Dark Angels Fallen and it reintroduces a new kit... one can only hope I guess.

Like to place a bit if true they will be Primaris Marines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So, FWIW, Dark Angels Veterans are not explicitly listed as LCTB, only Fallen are.

However, if you go to the DA Veterans page, they have the LCTB icon too.

I don't see it. I see web exclusive but no, Last Chance to Buy icon. Maybe it changed back?

They've taken the LCTB Icon off both pages, actually.

Fallen still feature on the LCTB page.

Looks like AoS and 40k are similarly affected, but only the odd piece and most of them bundles:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?N=647457687+3907428971

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=1125463923+2289761821

The status of the Fallen is even weirder now since they've lost their LSTB icon but are still featured in the LSTB tab.

There is one thing though. Fallen used to be not DO only but they are now DO. Could be that they were accidentally put into LSTB status but were supposed to be DO.

Regardless I'll probably end up grabbing the FLGS kit I was eyeing last week just in case.

Yeah, their webstore has been...odd of late. Shopping for those very Reaver cards (along with the Warhounds) before the New Year they were marked as "Temporarily Unavailable" so I hit the "Email Me" bit and got an email about 2 hours later that they were both in stock. On the actual store page they both still were listed as unavailable, but when going to the actual item page they could be added to the cart normally. That order did take a few weeks to ship and they would have been the only odd items, so I suspect they perhaps were indeed not available at that point in time. It appears that the Warhound cards on the US site still behave in this manner (as of this writing anyway).

Could it be in their million pound endeavor for their website/inventory that they didn't think to put a "Low Stock" option in and rather than get one added their ham-fisted solution is to dragoon the LCTB status? Or as some have speculated is it just a manufacturing shift that they want to clear out items prior?

I'd like the think that this will result in combined sets to reduce SKU's. For AT, you get a terminal expansion kit - all weapon cards and terminals in one set. For Blood Bowl, a set to bundle cards, pitches and dice into one box. Same for Necromunda - a complete card set for all gangs.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So, FWIW, Dark Angels Veterans are not explicitly listed as LCTB, only Fallen are.

However, if you go to the DA Veterans page, they have the LCTB icon too.

Maybe they're just re-boxing them with 32mm bases?

Twitch stream last night confirmed that these items (at least AT) are only on there because of popularity, they are selling exceptionally well and will return shortly.

Kill Team Commanders seemed to be a failed concept from my perspective. Most people do not play with the commander rules, and even fewer bought the commanders (because they were so expensive).

Some of the items feel like "Last chance to buy... Until we get a restock" rather than truly being your last chance - ever - to buy an item.

 Red_Five wrote:
Kill Team Commanders seemed to be a failed concept from my perspective. Most people do not play with the commander rules, and even fewer bought the commanders (because they were so expensive).

What failed was repackaging old kits for a higher price. The commander boxes were a mistake. Rogue Trader and the two kits going up for preorder tomorrow all include new and unique commanders, and people seem pretty happy about it. I think they'll end up putting commanders in the box with units going forward.

Some of the items feel like "Last chance to buy... Until we get a restock" rather than truly being your last chance - ever - to buy an item.

Should also be pointed out that the Tyranid and GSC commander boxes aren't last chance to buy. They came out later than the others, but other than that, I'm not sure what the distinction is.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:
Kill Team Commanders seemed to be a failed concept from my perspective. Most people do not play with the commander rules, and even fewer bought the commanders (because they were so expensive).

What failed was repackaging old kits for a higher price. The commander boxes were a mistake. Rogue Trader and the two kits going up for preorder tomorrow all include new and unique commanders, and people seem pretty happy about it. I think they'll end up putting commanders in the box with units going forward.

The real issue, IMO, was that not all Commanders were equal in setup and the prices were problematic because of that.

You had the Cadre Fireblade, Succubus, and Commissar who were $20USD models becoming $35.
You had the Iconward and Watch Master going up from $25USD to $35.
The Necron Overlord went up from $28 to $35.

The Librarian didn't change its price.
The Techpriest Dominus went down a whopping $1USD(!!!SOMUCHWOW! ), the Broodlord went down $5USD, and the Ork Warboss went down $15(as it's only available in Grukk's Boss Mob for $50).

I legitimately feel like Commander sets would have been a bit more well-received, at least in terms of the models, if the 'cheaper' faction stuff came like the Kill Teams we see tomorrow instead.

Some of the items feel like "Last chance to buy... Until we get a restock" rather than truly being your last chance - ever - to buy an item.

Should also be pointed out that the Tyranid and GSC commander boxes aren't last chance to buy. They came out later than the others, but other than that, I'm not sure what the distinction is.

Someone was saying that the Twitch stream last night said the LCTB section also includes stuff that is low stock levels.

That makes sense; the status is applied automatically when supply levels get below a certain level (and probably when there’s no re-order date).

What I don't understand (and forgive me if this was mentioned I haven't read through all of the thread) but...when the Delaque dice are sold out...how are people meant to get dice for Necromunda?

Excluding places like Ebay, because even Ebay dries up eventually, do they expect people to buy the Underhive box set at £75 to get two sets of dice?

And I apologise for the cynicism because I don't really think it's deliberately for that reason, but that is what people are left with unless they release some standalone dice. I suppose there probably are third party alternatives to be fair..but even so...

Yeah I noticed this with Blood Bowl.. so I now buy the cards and dice for the specialist games at release even if I don't get the team/gang.. I have the Delaque cards and dice for example but no gang yet.

Started doing it for shadespire/Night Vault as well, as some of the sleeves are gone.. but fortunately they where ones I already had.

For the 40k stuff, it's mostly the big bundles going LCtB, along with some limited edition books.

However, I spotted two oddities, the fallen kit, and the land raider terminus ultra kit. The fallen I've seen (as my friend is a big dark angel fan) but I've never seen the terminus ultra land raider used, and come to think of it, its rules either.

I mean, a possible 8 lascannons on a land raider is pretty crazy, but fun I'd imagine!

frankelee wrote:
I take it the boring Blood Bowl pitches with an extra silly side for $40 have begun to wear thin on the audience?

They show no sign of stopping! Each team of Blood Bowl so far is getting pitch, dice, cards and spike magazine. They got several years left of blood bowl releases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Yeah I noticed this with Blood Bowl.. so I now buy the cards and dice for the specialist games at release even if I don't get the team/gang.. I have the Delaque cards and dice for example but no gang yet.

Started doing it for shadespire/Night Vault as well, as some of the sleeves are gone.. but fortunately they where ones I already had.

Don't worry about the cards so much, they will always be available from other sources. Pm me if interested.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wunzlez wrote:
What I don't understand (and forgive me if this was mentioned I haven't read through all of the thread) but...when the Delaque dice are sold out...how are people meant to get dice for Necromunda?

Excluding places like Ebay, because even Ebay dries up eventually, do they expect people to buy the Underhive box set at £75 to get two sets of dice?

And I apologise for the cynicism because I don't really think it's deliberately for that reason, but that is what people are left with unless they release some standalone dice. I suppose there probably are third party alternatives to be fair..but even so...

It's a pity the dice go out because, other than the new minis, those were the coolest part I think. Very nice to have unique dice per house.

If all dice are gone, you need to order custom dice, ebay or simply use a translation table to normal D6.

Ah.., GW... Last chance to buy... stuff that's only been out a few months that you're still trying to get mates into.

'Fallen'... it's ridiculous they don't translate several names anymore ('Gefallene'). 'Fallen' means 'traps' in German...


(For those debauched by the internet: not that kind of trap...)

 Starfarer wrote:
Funny that you bring this complaint when discussing Kill Team, which can easily be played for under $100, including rules, figures and a bit of terrain.

Sure it can, but we're only 7 months in and you need to spend $190 just to have all the rules. $40 for the core rulebook, $60 for commanders, and $90 for arena. For being the small scale, introductory version of 40k, it's quickly approaching 40k both in terms of pricing and rules bloat.

 Toofast wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Funny that you bring this complaint when discussing Kill Team, which can easily be played for under $100, including rules, figures and a bit of terrain.

Sure it can, but we're only 7 months in and you need to spend $190 just to have all the rules. $40 for the core rulebook, $60 for commanders, and $90 for arena. For being the small scale, introductory version of 40k, it's quickly approaching 40k both in terms of pricing and rules bloat.

The difference is that only one of those(Core Rulebook) is actually necessary for playing the game.

Commanders aren't necessary.
Arena isn't necessary.

Killzones Mechanicus and Munitorum just disappeared from the GW website in the UK and most other suppliers - no warning given! I know they've been absent from most non-UK GW webstores for a while now though.

 Toofast wrote:


Sure it can, but we're only 7 months in and you need to spend $190 just to have all the rules. $40 for the core rulebook, $60 for commanders, and $90 for arena. For being the small scale, introductory version of 40k, it's quickly approaching 40k both in terms of pricing and rules bloat.

You don't need Commanders nor Arena to play Kill Team at all. Both of those are like separate modes of play and not at all rules bloat. If Kill Team was the video game Far Cry 5, then Commanders and Arena would be New Dawn.

I suspect the Kill Team offerings thus far are a stop gap money making move. In other words, they wanted a proof of concept to see if it would sell, so they used existing sculpts from their 40K line.. It did really well so now they will put the plan they had originally created into motion. Much like Shadespire, that plan will include miniatures that look better than the average miniature. I think the next two sets to come out are an example of this. A really cool Genstealer cult gunslinger and a new Adeptus Mechanicus tech priest. The Warzones may be a one and done, so if you want them, don't sit on your hands waiting for cheap prices.

Except gunslinger was already shown around summer...And it was put on design like year ago MINIMUM. Kill team wasn't even out yet when the gunslinger, which btw is also for 40k, was started to be designed.

If they are going to put out something based on sales of KT it's going to be like 2020. Maybe late 2019.

Dakka: this is a sign that GW is falling! The sky is falling! Everything will go last chance to buy until only primaris lieutenants are left!

GW: Consolidates commanders into new starter boxes that include commanders, a unit, and all of the tactics needed for everything. Had to get rid of all those previous boxes in order to clear space and reduce customer confusion. Will also likely release a book containing rules for all of the past killzones in a future update while continuing to release new killzones for those that want to buy them with the bundled terrain.

Dakka: This is GW trying to make us buy the same thing twice! This is ridiculous! We need to get together and vote with out wallets and make sure they understand we won't tolerate this!

Actual fans of Kill Team: Buys the stuff anyway and ignores the inane ramblings of bitter Dakka vets.

No one has said that.

Not this time, but it is an established pattern.

Then that's just poisoning the well...

tneva82 wrote:
Except gunslinger was already shown around summer...And it was put on design like year ago MINIMUM. Kill team wasn't even out yet when the gunslinger, which btw is also for 40k, was started to be designed.

If they are going to put out something based on sales of KT it's going to be like 2020. Maybe late 2019.

Gunslinger was only shown off because somebody accidentally put it out on display at Warhammer World. Notice that we heard absolutely nothing about his sister release, the Adeptus Mechanicus character, until the Gunslinger pre-order was announced.

 Arbitrator wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except gunslinger was already shown around summer...And it was put on design like year ago MINIMUM. Kill team wasn't even out yet when the gunslinger, which btw is also for 40k, was started to be designed.

If they are going to put out something based on sales of KT it's going to be like 2020. Maybe late 2019.

Gunslinger was only shown off because somebody accidentally put it out on display at Warhammer World. Notice that we heard absolutely nothing about his sister release, the Adeptus Mechanicus character, until the Gunslinger pre-order was announced.

He was put out on display at Warhammer World right around the time the Codex would have had photos being taken.

The Mechanicus guy wasn't going to need the full photo workup like Kelermorph would.

Confused about only Reaver stuff for AT being on last chance here. If it truly is, then I'll nab a pack of the terminals and cards. However, AT is ostensibly being supported long-term...why would they make such essential game pieces for a core unit LCTB so soon?

 Arbitrator wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except gunslinger was already shown around summer...And it was put on design like year ago MINIMUM. Kill team wasn't even out yet when the gunslinger, which btw is also for 40k, was started to be designed.

If they are going to put out something based on sales of KT it's going to be like 2020. Maybe late 2019.

Gunslinger was only shown off because somebody accidentally put it out on display at Warhammer World. Notice that we heard absolutely nothing about his sister release, the Adeptus Mechanicus character, until the Gunslinger pre-order was announced.

Yes but shows it was already designed that time so couldn't be reaction to kt sales. Pointing out lead times as people have often scale of lead times wrong


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 weasel_beef wrote:
Confused about only Reaver stuff for AT being on last chance here. If it truly is, then I'll nab a pack of the terminals and cards. However, AT is ostensibly being supported long-term...why would they make such essential game pieces for a core unit LCTB so soon?

It's not. Restock coming. Just supply not able to match demand

It does not look like any of that is on sale so I do not care if they sell it or not.

Warlord games is pulling the same crap. It is just a sleazy way to spike sales right before the British tax year ends in April. Go ahead and panic buy all the precious soon to be oop plastic and play right into their evil clutches...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No one has said that.

I read a few comments on page one that sounded like they were skirting that 'sky-is-falling' edge. Thankfully, it seems like most people in here are pretty reasonable for once. Nice to see.

But yeah, GW is clearly planning something. I just wish we knew what.

drbored wrote:
But yeah, GW is clearly planning something. I just wish we knew what.

Restock most likely. At least for AT

drbored wrote:
Dakka: this is a sign that GW is falling! The sky is falling! Everything will go last chance to buy until only primaris lieutenants are left!

GW: Consolidates commanders into new starter boxes that include commanders, a unit, and all of the tactics needed for everything. Had to get rid of all those previous boxes in order to clear space and reduce customer confusion. Will also likely release a book containing rules for all of the past killzones in a future update while continuing to release new killzones for those that want to buy them with the bundled terrain.

Dakka: This is GW trying to make us buy the same thing twice! This is ridiculous! We need to get together and vote with out wallets and make sure they understand we won't tolerate this!

Actual fans of Kill Team: Buys the stuff anyway and ignores the inane ramblings of bitter Dakka vets.

 Breotan wrote:
Not this time, but it is an established pattern.

I always wonder when folk talk about Dakka while on Dakka as if it's a hivemind with patterns of behaviour - do you grasp that the fact you're here expressing a different view dumps a bucket of cold pish all over your complaint? Or do you genuinely not consider yourselves part of this community, and you just stick around to moan that it's not to your liking?

OrkPlayer137 wrote:
Killzones Mechanicus and Munitorum just disappeared from the GW website in the UK and most other suppliers - no warning given! I know they've been absent from most non-UK GW webstores for a while now though.

But would why would you want to buy those anyway?

Because they give you tons of terrain for a much lower price?

 Yodhrin wrote:

drbored wrote:
Dakka: this is a sign that GW is falling! The sky is falling! Everything will go last chance to buy until only primaris lieutenants are left!

GW: Consolidates commanders into new starter boxes that include commanders, a unit, and all of the tactics needed for everything. Had to get rid of all those previous boxes in order to clear space and reduce customer confusion. Will also likely release a book containing rules for all of the past killzones in a future update while continuing to release new killzones for those that want to buy them with the bundled terrain.

Dakka: This is GW trying to make us buy the same thing twice! This is ridiculous! We need to get together and vote with out wallets and make sure they understand we won't tolerate this!

Actual fans of Kill Team: Buys the stuff anyway and ignores the inane ramblings of bitter Dakka vets.

 Breotan wrote:
Not this time, but it is an established pattern.

I always wonder when folk talk about Dakka while on Dakka as if it's a hivemind with patterns of behaviour - do you grasp that the fact you're here expressing a different view dumps a bucket of cold pish all over your complaint? Or do you genuinely not consider yourselves part of this community, and you just stick around to moan that it's not to your liking?

I'll be the first to admit that my being here is pretty much a waste of time. What I do like seeing though is that, little by little, GW's injection of positive energy into the community has started to steer other forums and groups in that direction as well. It used to be 1 GW fanboy for every 20 bitter Dakka grumps. Now it's more like 5 reasonable GW fans to about 10 Dakka grumps.

But you bring up a good point. Do I think that Dakka is a hivemind with patterns of behavior? Not necessarily a hivemind. I'd call it more like a 'fishbowl' or 'echo chamber'. Someone expresses an opinion, positive or negative, and it tends to get echoed by people that feel the same way. Over the past... what... decade? the pattern has been 'hating on GW with unreasonable fervor despite this being predominantly a GW community forum'. So if you're talking about dumping a bucket of cold pish all over a complaint, just take it a step back and see how Dakka (which, by the way, is a term coined by GW and its community) complains about GW policies and product despite participating in the hobby anyway. So whenever I see a Dakka grump complaining about GW's product in one thread, only to show off all of the new boxes of models he got in another, I can't help but think exactly that: their argument is weak.

But anyway, back to the topic at hand, I've sent some e-mails back and forth between the GW community team. The message they delivered was basically "These are products that aren't 100% necessary to play the game and most of them were bundles for good deals that have sold out because of the incredible popularity of Kill Team." He obviously couldn't give me any info on if they'd be replaced, repackaged, or if we'd be able to get boards, missions, tactics, etc that were only in those products elsewhere, but he did confirm that they've got YEARS of product planned for Kill Team.

drbored wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

drbored wrote:
Dakka: this is a sign that GW is falling! The sky is falling! Everything will go last chance to buy until only primaris lieutenants are left!

GW: Consolidates commanders into new starter boxes that include commanders, a unit, and all of the tactics needed for everything. Had to get rid of all those previous boxes in order to clear space and reduce customer confusion. Will also likely release a book containing rules for all of the past killzones in a future update while continuing to release new killzones for those that want to buy them with the bundled terrain.

Dakka: This is GW trying to make us buy the same thing twice! This is ridiculous! We need to get together and vote with out wallets and make sure they understand we won't tolerate this!

Actual fans of Kill Team: Buys the stuff anyway and ignores the inane ramblings of bitter Dakka vets.

 Breotan wrote:
Not this time, but it is an established pattern.

I always wonder when folk talk about Dakka while on Dakka as if it's a hivemind with patterns of behaviour - do you grasp that the fact you're here expressing a different view dumps a bucket of cold pish all over your complaint? Or do you genuinely not consider yourselves part of this community, and you just stick around to moan that it's not to your liking?

I'll be the first to admit that my being here is pretty much a waste of time.

And ours, so feel free to toddle on eh.

What I do like seeing though is that, little by little, GW's injection of positive energy into the community has started to steer other forums and groups in that direction as well. It used to be 1 GW fanboy for every 20 bitter Dakka grumps. Now it's more like 5 reasonable GW fans to about 10 Dakka grumps.

But you bring up a good point. Do I think that Dakka is a hivemind with patterns of behavior? Not necessarily a hivemind. I'd call it more like a 'fishbowl' or 'echo chamber'. Someone expresses an opinion, positive or negative, and it tends to get echoed by people that feel the same way. Over the past... what... decade? the pattern has been 'hating on GW with unreasonable fervor despite this being predominantly a GW community forum'. So if you're talking about dumping a bucket of cold pish all over a complaint, just take it a step back and see how Dakka (which, by the way, is a term coined by GW and its community) complains about GW policies and product despite participating in the hobby anyway. So whenever I see a Dakka grump complaining about GW's product in one thread, only to show off all of the new boxes of models he got in another, I can't help but think exactly that: their argument is weak.

See, I just find that even more hilarious, because guess what pal - all that "positive energy" coming out of GW isn't down to folk like yourselves who stuck your fingers in your ears and insisted everyone think happy thoughts for nigh on a decade as GW repeatedly shat itself, it's due to all the folk who were driven away or radically cut back spending while staying involved and being critical, and further the lapsed players coming back now that GW are putting out "positive energy" aren't coming back because of folk like yourself because you've been telling them Everything Is Fine for years even as GW descended into a turgid, litigious, resentful mess, it's only when us "grumps" say to them that actually, things have improved that they pay attention and reconsider.

So hey, you're welcome.

I'm so glad we are all participating in the grand internet stereotype of assuming way more than we should to make our arguments sound as biting as possible.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because they give you tons of terrain for a much lower price?

Okay, that makes sense, but what I really mean is, these are not stuff you can no longer buy, it's more that you can't buy them for that much lower price?

My impression with this thread was mainly that GW is pulling products that will no longer be available. This is not the case for those products who only change in price.

Baxx wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because they give you tons of terrain for a much lower price?

Okay, that makes sense, but what I really mean is, these are not stuff you can no longer buy, it's more that you can't buy them for that much lower price?

My impression with this thread was mainly that GW is pulling products that will no longer be available. This is not the case for those products who only change in price.

Although the models from the boxes are still available at higher prices, the Kill Zone rules, cards and boards in the boxes were never available separately and are now not available at all.

OrkPlayer137 wrote:

Although the models from the boxes are still available at higher prices, the Kill Zone rules, cards and boards in the boxes were never available separately and are now not available at all.

Right, but this is where the community steps in! Who got these resources available to share? Not like Blood Bowl, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, Battlefleet Gothic and Mordheim died because GW stopped selling rules, cards and boards. These games live on 15+ years. If they stop selling Blood Bowl or Necromunda, pm me and you will have 100% of the contents released for those games.

Baxx wrote:

OrkPlayer137 wrote:

Although the models from the boxes are still available at higher prices, the Kill Zone rules, cards and boards in the boxes were never available separately and are now not available at all.

Right, but this is where the community steps in! Who got these resources available to share? Not like Blood Bowl, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, Battlefleet Gothic and Mordheim died because GW stopped selling rules, cards and boards. These games live on 15+ years. If they stop selling Blood Bowl or Necromunda, pm me and you will have 100% of the contents released for those games.

Some people are collectors and want to be able to have one of everything. The boards aren't critical - you can mark off a 22x30" surface and you're good to go. The missions and tactics and environment effect can be shared via various means, but... at the end of the day, some people just want to have them on hand, the originals. It reeks that GW pulled these products so quickly and without warning.

Also, I know not many people worry about this, but if you play at a GW store, you have to have the original material. GW not providing the original material and then not allowing you to play with a copy of the material also reeks, but thems the rules.

Again, I just hope that GW is going to release some book that will have all the previously released missions and tactics in one place. That'd be nice. We'll see what happens. :/

The idea of things getting discontinued can be stressful, in the ideal hobby bubble miniatures would last forever, specially the ones you don't have and love… but lets face it it's not going to happen, things need to move on and this way they avoid a bloated catalogue and keep things fresh.

Can anyone imagine how great would it be if you could still buy those vintage metals done decades ago? But then again if every mini is available then the new ranges would probably be less popular.

 NAVARRO wrote:
The idea of things getting discontinued can be stressful, in the ideal hobby bubble miniatures would last forever, specially the ones you don't have and love… but lets face it it's not going to happen, things need to move on and this way they avoid a bloated catalogue and keep things fresh.

It seems like Kill Team has a lot of things being discontinued very quickly. I don't think half the people who wanted the starter set actually got one and the killzones are impossible to get after a week. Now the Commanders and data cards are going? At this point, there's only a few KT products that have survived a few months, much less will still be around in a year or two. KT could use a little more permanence, in my opinion. Or, like, any.

 NAVARRO wrote:
The idea of things getting discontinued can be stressful, in the ideal hobby bubble miniatures would last forever, specially the ones you don't have and love… but lets face it it's not going to happen, things need to move on and this way they avoid a bloated catalogue and keep things fresh.

Can anyone imagine how great would it be if you could still buy those vintage metals done decades ago? But then again if every mini is available then the new ranges would probably be less popular.

You're comparing
>Vintage metal models that are 10-20+ years old

to

>Kits and box sets released under 6 months ago

The comparison hardly holds up. I can understand things being discontinued, but this is ridiculous.

I was watching a Kill Team Arena review by Guerilla Miniatures Game on YouTube and I think Ash reckoned the having the blank cards filled out is important for Kill Team Arena organised play. I suspect GW will release a pack of the blank cards on their own.

https://youtu.be/D5l2GpSEUlI

Ancient Otter wrote:
I was watching a Kill Team Arena review by Guerilla Miniatures Game on YouTube and I think Ash reckoned the having the blank cards filled out is important for Kill Team Arena organised play. I suspect GW will release a pack of the blank cards on their own.

https://youtu.be/D5l2GpSEUlI

They have offered these from the beginning. Funny thing is, they're on Last Chance to Buy too.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kill-Team-Data-Cards-2018-eng

In one of the promo images it looks like Arena comes with some datacards, but they don't list them in the description.

I guess we'll see. Thankfully, you can print out your own datacards with GW's downloadable PDF for Kill Team Command Rosters, granted they're in black and white:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/KillTeam_CoreManual_Web_CommunityRoster_BW-1.pdf

drbored wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
The idea of things getting discontinued can be stressful, in the ideal hobby bubble miniatures would last forever, specially the ones you don't have and love… but lets face it it's not going to happen, things need to move on and this way they avoid a bloated catalogue and keep things fresh.

Can anyone imagine how great would it be if you could still buy those vintage metals done decades ago? But then again if every mini is available then the new ranges would probably be less popular.

You're comparing
>Vintage metal models that are 10-20+ years old

to

>Kits and box sets released under 6 months ago

The comparison hardly holds up. I can understand things being discontinued, but this is ridiculous.

Lets be positive shall we?
The principle is exactly the same, too many Barcodes to handle some need to drop to give space to others… the only difference is the speed it's going but have you noticed the warp speed of GW new releases the last few years? For sure the faster you release the faster you need to discontinue.

Ridiculous you say? Probably? but not sure. KT is not GW core game and maybe to update/maintain it they need to go at this speed?

Short life products that don’t sell enough for a reprint, get discontinued. Not exactly shocking.

 NAVARRO wrote:
The principle is exactly the same, too many Barcodes to handle some need to drop to give space to others… the only difference is the speed it's going but have you noticed the warp speed of GW new releases the last few years? For sure the faster you release the faster you need to discontinue.

Ridiculous you say? Probably? but not sure. KT is not GW core game and maybe to update/maintain it they need to go at this speed?

And I said again that if GW were that concerned about SKUs they wouldn't have released 6 separate Ork buggy kits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
The principle is exactly the same, too many Barcodes to handle some need to drop to give space to others… the only difference is the speed it's going but have you noticed the warp speed of GW new releases the last few years? For sure the faster you release the faster you need to discontinue.

Ridiculous you say? Probably? but not sure. KT is not GW core game and maybe to update/maintain it they need to go at this speed?

And I said again that if GW were that concerned about SKUs they wouldn't have released 6 separate Ork buggy kits.

So, I got some information back from GW Customer Service and the Community Team.

Bottom line is that when they came out with these kits, they came out with a short shelf life from the get-go. Now, GW hadn't planned for their shelf lives to be THIS SHORT. They made one big run of the killzones and the Starter Box and that was it. When they sold out... they were out. They made enough that they expected to be able to supply demand for 9 months. Instead, many of the products didn't last 3 months due to the overwhelming popularity of Kill Team.

It has nothing to do with SKU's, it has nothing to do with barcodes, it has nothing to do with them needing more space or anything like that. The fact of the matter is that someone on the GW team said something like, "Yeah, 1 million units should be enough to last us through till March of 2019." And instead they really needed 3 million.

Now, why the Necromunda stuff is going Last Chance to Buy and all of that stuff I have no clue. Probably because it wasn't selling well. Same with the Commanders. While the Commander expansion sold very well, the individual commanders are still on shelves in plenty of places, not moving any time soon.

Anyway, long story short, Kill Team Starter Set and Killzones were too popular for their own good and instead of going back and printing more, GW is just going to charge ahead and release more product, hopefully in higher quantities.

And I think I'd be fine with that really, if they'd maybe release the exclusive killzone cards on Warhammer Community to download or something so you could at least buy the terrain at regular prices and play those options as intended.

Can someone explain then if these kits "came out with a short shelf life from the get-go" if they constantly release boxes and deals and discontinue them what is the reason to do so?
Regardless of selling very well or not. The fact that the shelf life was to be short from the start shows a very serious concern with how they populate their store stocks.

They have limited space for unlimited stock.

Also it fits their strategy* of constantly releasing new kits at incredible speeds to keep you coming back for more. I think its really working well for them.

* assuming that is their strategy

Either way im ok with that, theres always a new shiny I guess. I missed thousands of miniatures due to discontinued products, GW and other companies so not really an issue.
Only concerned when minis get discontinued due to companies going under because thats a game over for those lines and peoples incomes etc… If they get discontinued due to immense popularity then good for them.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Can someone explain then if these kits "came out with a short shelf life from the get-go" if they constantly release boxes and deals and discontinue them what is the reason to do so?
Regardless of selling very well or not. The fact that the shelf life was to be short from the start shows a very serious concern with how they populate their store stocks.

They have limited space for unlimited stock.

Also it fits their strategy* of constantly releasing new kits at incredible speeds to keep you coming back for more. I think its really working well for them.

* assuming that is their strategy

Either way im ok with that, theres always a new shiny I guess. I missed thousands of miniatures due to discontinued products, GW and other companies so not really an issue.
Only concerned when minis get discontinued due to companies going under because thats a game over for those lines and peoples incomes etc… If they get discontinued due to immense popularity then good for them.

It has a LOT less to do with not having the space to store these things and a LOT more to do with... these kits and box sets are selling faster than they anticipated.

A big point that has been cited to me by several sources is that the cardboard boards that the killzones have are sourced from China. They tell the factory there to make X number of these boards and... that's it. That right there, I would say, is probably the main limitation on the Killzones. Once the boards are sold out, they can't continue to package them, so they have to discontinue them. That's it.

You're really hung up on this being a 'space' issue, and I guarantee that it's not. If it was a space issue, they would not have made 5 different Ork Buggy kits that most people will only buy one or two of, if any at all. There also would be a lot of other products that don't sell nearly as well as Kill Team that would have disappeared years ago.

The space issue keeps getting brought up because that was their justification for eliminating a large number of FW products last year.

One source of frustration with the short run of Kill Team products is that the boxes come with cards that have in-game effects. You can still buy the same models and terrain pieces outside of the Kill Team range, but you can’t get those cards.

Not hung up at all just not buying your simplistic argument of "incompetent planning" if you are in the business of generating a product, stock volumes are errr crucial and if you are also in the business of having a big chain of physical stores then believe me stock levels are like ESSENTIAL! Making sure you have the right things for sale is a science in itself.

Quite simply I strongly believe there is a clear distinction of core games and the other smaller games. Smaller games going from one shot board games to popular KT's neither of them seem to have long shelf presence/time at all in comparison with the core range, which is understandable. The trend across the board seems to be not to have overproduction and too much stock, GW seems happier to have things outofstock rather than the opposite. Seems to be working.

It may all be that someone does think the value of your product increases if you constantly give the clients the illusion that if you don't get in fast you will miss out… or it could be just incompetence in understanding supply and demand.
Personaly I believe its not an isolated case and discontinued products are a mix of many factors.
For sure a company this size doing so well is not due to sheer luck, sorry if I give them more credit than you seem to.

As for Ork boxes I raise you 2 in one kits on most armies.

GW literally didn't plan for the demand that Kill Team would bring. That's the long and short of it.

FW also keeps their stock separate, which is why it costs so much to ship. They have their own warehouse. Also, it had less to do with the stock of the models, and more to do with the stock of the *molds* to make the models. There's only so much space they have for molds.

Also, why didn't they make all of those Ork buggies dual kits? I think if space was a concern, they would have done that. Also, fewer kits released now are dual kits. The Primaris, Death Guard, Genestealer Cults, even the Imperial Knights releases were not dual kits. The Armigers were two separate kits with one shared sprue and one separate sprue. Same with the Castellan/Valiant.

The dual kits were popular with early GSC and Admech, but have since dropped off of GW's production radar. Clearly, space is not as much of a concern.

Finally, I'm THRILLED that GW is doing as well as it is. I seriously think they just need to re-look at their product planning and fire the guy that's in charge of determining how much needs to be created. Selling out of a product that's highly in demand is generally not a great business practice, and yet that's exactly what's happened.

drbored wrote:
GW literally didn't plan for the demand that Kill Team would bring. That's the long and short of it.

Ehhh...I think this is a bit oversimplifying things. The Killzones were huge sellers simply because of the savings associated with them. But that always happens with terrain bundles unless it's the Deathworld Forest which was just poorly received.

Also, why didn't they make all of those Ork buggies dual kits? I think if space was a concern, they would have done that. Also, fewer kits released now are dual kits. The Primaris, Death Guard, Genestealer Cults, even the Imperial Knights releases were not dual kits. The Armigers were two separate kits with one shared sprue and one separate sprue. Same with the Castellan/Valiant.

The Ork buggies didn't have a lot of shared parts. The GSC had dual kits(Rockgrinder/Goliath, Metamorph/Acolyte). GW commented that the Castellan/Valiant and Armigers were to do with packaging issues.

Finally, I'm THRILLED that GW is doing as well as it is. I seriously think they just need to re-look at their product planning and fire the guy that's in charge of determining how much needs to be created. Selling out of a product that's highly in demand is generally not a great business practice, and yet that's exactly what's happened.

Maybe they also need to start limiting sales via webstores and to brick+mortars when it comes to items with "exclusive" bits--because I've seen a couple people locally trying to flog the "exclusive" datacards from the various Killteam sets for stupid amounts of cash.

As long as there is demand for it, people will continue to try to sell individual parts of something for quick cash, like tactics cards and such. That's not going to go away unless GW makes them easier to obtain by, say, making them available online for free instead of forcing people to buy a limited box for them :/

Maybe I have the power to find out the real truth here, so we can cut the conjecture and conspiracy theories.

I'll see what I can do...

The truth I know that I have just been paid and all my money is now out again buying remaining Killzone stock from discounters, plus a few other things.

H.B.M.C., do you think I can make a decent go of a Mechanicus table with just four Killzones? Not as big as yours but passable for a tabletop.

You managed to pick up four of the Mechanicus Killzones? Lucky you. I've never even seen one in stock...

As far as what's in there... hmm...

You would have 4 Ferratonic Incinerators, 4 Alchomite Stacks and 4 sets of Thermic Plasma Conduits. This means you have 16 struts, 8 long walkways, 8 short-walkways, 4 lots of "circle" walkways, 4 stacks, 4 domes, 4 kilns, and 4 furnaces. Plus a bunch of pipes and end-bits.

You have a severe lack of curved walkways, which is a problem. And a lack of walkways in general. I'd personally pick up 1-2 Promethium Refineries to bulk everything out, plus that nets you another 1-2 stacks, kilns, domes and furnaces.

With what you have you could make, I'd say, 3 decent buildings with good levels and walkways, a couple of smaller ones, and then some random kit-bashy stuff out of left-over pipes and the conduits.

drbored wrote:
FW also keeps their stock separate, which is why it costs so much to ship. They have their own warehouse.

Except that's not true anymore. They share space with "standard" GW in Memphis now for US orders.

Hi everyone. We will not have to wait long to get a straight answer about all this.

Everything will be cleared up at the Weekender, so for now can stop speculating and guessing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Maybe they also need to start limiting sales via webstores and to brick+mortars when it comes to items with "exclusive" bits--because I've seen a couple people locally trying to flog the "exclusive" datacards from the various Killteam sets for stupid amounts of cash.

Wait, so your plan to prevent scalperscum from using limited product availability to extract money from people is to make the availability of the products even more limited? Not to mention that in some countries "limit it to brick & mortar" means, functionally, "limit it to GW stores" for a lot of people, so in order to potentially save folks money, your idea would definitively make the product more expensive.

How about - and this is a radical idea I know but bear with me - GW A; get better at figuring out how much stock to make of new products, and B; maybe use some of that gigantic cash pile they're sitting on to move the parts of their supply chain that are holding them up on restocking this stuff(ie, printing and cardstock die-cutting) in house.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hi everyone. We will not have to wait long to get a straight answer about all this.

Everything will be cleared up at the Weekender, so for now can stop speculating and guessing.

Great, I look forward to the weekender. Thanks for the info.

A shame that they can't do their printing in-house (presumably a cost/volume issue for it to be worthwhile) or at least in the UK (presumably much cheaper to import from Chinese printers).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You managed to pick up four of the Mechanicus Killzones? Lucky you. I've never even seen one in stock...

UK based, bought one casually, planned to buy six, rush bought three this week from an online retailer once they suddenly disappeared from sale from most sites. Got lucky.
Also in the order is one Killzone Sector Munitorum.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

As far as what's in there... hmm...

You would have 4 Ferratonic Incinerators, 4 Alchomite Stacks and 4 sets of Thermic Plasma Conduits. This means you have 16 struts, 8 long walkways, 8 short-walkways, 4 lots of "circle" walkways, 4 stacks, 4 domes, 4 kilns, and 4 furnaces. Plus a bunch of pipes and end-bits.

I have one set already part assembled, though in subcomponents. It was a test purchase, and I felt I got quite a bit for my money. I find I didn't appreciate how big the stacks and furnaces are until I assembled some. I particularly like the pipes, I assembled the first set as a double stack of pipes for some linear blocking terrain. Not done anything with the walkways as I know I haven't enough to afford to waste on mistakes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

You have a severe lack of curved walkways, which is a problem. And a lack of walkways in general. I'd personally pick up 1-2 Promethium Refineries to bulk everything out, plus that nets you another 1-2 stacks, kilns, domes and furnaces.

I was looking at buying 2-3 Sacristan Forgeshrines, mainly because it afforded diagonal walkways and stacks efficiently, but that was while I was still planning to spam buy Sector Mechanicus. If GW release more I will go back to plan A and buy another two or three Killzones and start from there. I will now be very lucky to get that far.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

With what you have you could make, I'd say, 3 decent buildings with good levels and walkways, a couple of smaller ones, and then some random kit-bashy stuff out of left-over pipes and the conduits.

My plan is to make this my primary 40K board, with aim for a 6x4 with decent cover but room for vehicles, and a more stacked and densely covered 3x3 to 4x4 for Necromunda. Thing is I have no idea how much I will need to achieve that goal realistically, but am sold on the aesthetics of the set and want to do it properly. Likely I will make my own board, and might just use the killzone card mats, they are nice quality if a little samey.
If I need to pad this out I can make up some platform base slabs from lino tiles and set them on a swamp map with one full set of deathworld forest. This will give me a frontier manufactorum/munitorum built on foundation slabs in an alien jungle. Not entirely sure this will work though.

I will also be getting a number of terrain items from 40K Conquest, though the timing sucks, the Galvanic Magnavent will be on cheap sale on March 2020! Though plasma conduits and plasma regulators will be available sooner, and I intend to stock up during the availability window.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hi everyone. We will not have to wait long to get a straight answer about all this.

Everything will be cleared up at the Weekender, so for now can stop speculating and guessing.

Nothing was cleared up at the weekender. :/

Well. We learned out we bought out AT transfer sheets in month or two they had expected to last for a year and are looking for more.

Hopefully GW learned to produce more AT stuff! Strike while it's still hot. Don't let sales hurt just by not having storage!

 Kanluwen wrote:

drbored wrote:
GW literally didn't plan for the demand that Kill Team would bring. That's the long and short of it.

Ehhh...I think this is a bit oversimplifying things. The Killzones were huge sellers simply because of the savings associated with them. But that always happens with terrain bundles unless it's the Deathworld Forest which was just poorly received.

Also, why didn't they make all of those Ork buggies dual kits? I think if space was a concern, they would have done that. Also, fewer kits released now are dual kits. The Primaris, Death Guard, Genestealer Cults, even the Imperial Knights releases were not dual kits. The Armigers were two separate kits with one shared sprue and one separate sprue. Same with the Castellan/Valiant.

The Ork buggies didn't have a lot of shared parts. The GSC had dual kits(Rockgrinder/Goliath, Metamorph/Acolyte). GW commented that the Castellan/Valiant and Armigers were to do with packaging issues.

Finally, I'm THRILLED that GW is doing as well as it is. I seriously think they just need to re-look at their product planning and fire the guy that's in charge of determining how much needs to be created. Selling out of a product that's highly in demand is generally not a great business practice, and yet that's exactly what's happened.

Maybe they also need to start limiting sales via webstores and to brick+mortars when it comes to items with "exclusive" bits--because I've seen a couple people locally trying to flog the "exclusive" datacards from the various Killteam sets for stupid amounts of cash.

New kits definitely seem packed onto tighter sprues, I think that's one of the reasons for the six buggies - two buggies takes up the same sprue/box as one multipart buggy would have done, but you really don't have much space for redundant parts.
I think once you've taken the decision to make these single sprue vehicles, you can then think about whether you wanted to make them compatible - and I think the idea of having very different vehicles rather than interchangable but largely similar looking ones eventually won out amongst the designers. Probably because that was the only way they could have got the opportunity to do the Scrapjet.

They showed Necromunda sleeves at the Horus Heresy Weekender, would be a late in the day to release those if cards were never coming back.

really disappointing to see the Necromunda stuff on this list. Debating if I should pickup the gang card sets before they go bak into the development limbo the game was in before (and the community takes up the torch again)

 ShotgunFacelift wrote:
really disappointing to see the Necromunda stuff on this list. Debating if I should pickup the gang card sets before they go bak into the development limbo the game was in before (and the community takes up the torch again)

At the Horus Heresy Weekender they confirmed more gangs (in plastic, no less) on top of at least a half dozen other characters either already completed or in concept stages. I don't think Necromunda is going anywhere.

If anything, the cards might be replaced with new, updated sets in the future, but hey, if you want them, now's the time to get them.

Because the best option is to invalidate the cards that exist already rather than just reprinting them.

Oooh! Even better. The new cards will be a different size (to go with the new card sleeves) and completely incompatible with the previous ones.

Or it could be same as with AT. Stock running out, new stock coming.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Because the best option is to invalidate the cards that exist already rather than just reprinting them.

Oooh! Even better. The new cards will be a different size (to go with the new card sleeves) and completely incompatible with the previous ones.

If you think these games are going to have the support life cycle of a mayfly, why bother sleeving the cards at all. It isn't like there is any hidden information cards (in Kill Team, don't know about 'munda). So if they get a little worn, no big deal. I really like Kill Team, but I don't see me playing this so much that I am going wear out the cards to uselessness or so far into the future that the cards would be in pretty rough shape. If I do, I bet there will be a place on the internet that has a compendium of them I could just use instead. If you absolutely have to them sleeved for reasons, that is your personal bent.

To me, it just seems most likely that they haven't figured out yet how to match the logistics to actual demand. They don't want to end up drowning in excess stock (hi dreadfleet!) so they are conservative with anything that isn't a core game.

It's not like back when they produced stuff on site, and could just make everything they needed. Each order has a lead time and the threat of delays with China.

 Polonius wrote:
To me, it just seems most likely that they haven't figured out yet how to match the logistics to actual demand.

Which, if we're being fair, is a pretty common trend among new companies that haven't been doing this for very long.

Wait...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
To me, it just seems most likely that they haven't figured out yet how to match the logistics to actual demand.

Which, if we're being fair, is a pretty common trend among new companies that haven't been doing this for very long.

Wait...

Given the changes in management, shake up of FW (& the studio?), creation of the specialist games team and putting out new games in areas of the market they haven’t touched in a long, long while, I actually think it’s a fair comparison; GW haven’t been doing this type of game for very long. Compare the current situation to a few years ago, where these would have been one-shot, limited release, gone within an hour of pre-order, because the Dreadfleet debacle had burnt the old management so bad (assuming they even took the risk to develop the game; unlikely).

They've been doing cards for quite some time. They are not new at this.

And now the Promethium Refinery is gone.

Didn't even go Last Chance. It's just gone.

Asked GW, they don't know if it'll be coming back.

Just how many did you buy HBMC?

Only five.










What? Don't look at me like that.

Why are they discontinuing these, if anything, is there any way to just get the card bundles. The figures are already out there, we just need the cards.