WAVE IV ANNOUNCED!



https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/2/8/expand-your-operations/

What do you guys think?

I am super interested in the little Naboo Fighter. Such an iconic ship. I am surprised we are receiving the Resistance Transport but I guess it makes sense (even if it is ugly). I am stoked for the completely re-designed (and now much smaller) TIE/vn Silencer!

That was completely unexpected, wave 3 is supposed to release in 20 days and there are still loads of previews to be done and FFG release preview of wave 4, I wonder what sparked that?

Nothing for me in the wave as a Scum player but that's some interesting stuff for the rest.

New B-Wing is sexy as, flappy wings and rotating!


New Silencer model looks a lot better I was surprised they didn't just go medium base on it instead of redoing the ship.


Hyena has new a new bomb, new configuration (its own version of struts), new sensor, new missile and new tactical droid? Horrible dial though.


N1. Not a fan. At least Anakin the youngest only gets a single force,

This card could be handy though;

Transport is odd with two dials and it looks like a General Leia crew?

Transport is supposed to able to split a la' Lando's Falcon, that's why there's two dials.

So it does, the bit on the right of the miniature can fly independently. Its tiny! Is it just me or does it seem that FFG are putting up lower res images nowadays? Even squinting with my nose an inch from the screen I cant really make out that dial, seems like a stop and reverses?

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Transport is supposed to able to split a la' Lando's Falcon, that's why there's two dials.

Interesting, so does that mean you pick two pilots for the ship, when it splits and normal... Or does it always share the same pilot card?

I'd 'assume' you field two pilots.

Its weird that the article suggest that its an either/or thing "you can add this versatile ship to your squadrons in one of two forms." I presume that they were just being sloppy with the language. Wonder what the new card with the old autoblasters art is and really hope tis not the same as before! Cannon to add a strain maybe?

 ingtaer wrote:
Its weird that the article suggest that its an either/or thing "you can add this versatile ship to your squadrons in one of two forms." I presume that they were just being sloppy with the language. Wonder what the new card with the old autoblasters art is and really hope tis not the same as before! Cannon to add a strain maybe?

From what I can tell the main ship is the Resistance Transport Pod, which is the tiny ship. The other half of the ship is just a cargo/crew compartment that comes with some decent weapons. I do not believe the cargo area can be independently flown.

So my bet is that the Transport Pod will be a tiny little ship with minimal upgrade potential, while the Transport (both pieces together) will have a large crew capacity and a canon? Maybe the Pod can jettison the cargo area when it takes its last wound (something like Bosk's z95 or Lando's escape pod)?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ingtaer wrote:

New Silencer model looks a lot better I was surprised they didn't just go medium base on it instead of redoing the ship.

It makes sense to redesign it, since the ship is shorter than a Y-Wing.

 ingtaer wrote:
N1. Not a fan. At least Anakin the youngest only gets a single force,

This card could be handy though;

Really? I think it looks wizard!

 Red_Five wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
N1. Not a fan. At least Anakin the youngest only gets a single force,

This card could be handy though;

Really? I think it looks wizard!

Where did the ban button go...

I already have four of these things from shapeways. More money than sense I guess, I wonder how long it will be before someone gets a table flipped on them for repeatedly saying "lets try spinning" when doing barrel rolls.

 ingtaer wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
N1. Not a fan. At least Anakin the youngest only gets a single force,

This card could be handy though;

Really? I think it looks wizard!

Where did the ban button go...

I already have four of these things from shapeways. More money than sense I guess, I wonder how long it will be before someone gets a table flipped on them for repeatedly saying "lets try spinning" when doing barrel rolls.

At least there isn't any sand in space!

I love your Eta-2 Actis-class Interceptor. I cannot wait until FFG releases that ship ❤❤❤

 ingtaer wrote:
Its weird that the article suggest that its an either/or thing "you can add this versatile ship to your squadrons in one of two forms." I presume that they were just being sloppy with the language. Wonder what the new card with the old autoblasters art is and really hope tis not the same as before! Cannon to add a strain maybe?

There is an FFG article talking about using it as a gunship, or as a shuttle. I expect this is what they mean, versatility in builds, not modes.

Red_Five wrote:
At least there isn't any sand in space!

I love your Eta-2 Actis-class Interceptor. I cannot wait until FFG releases that ship ❤❤❤

The Actis is one of my favorite ships of all time (in all sci-fi) and I was really hoping it would be released in this wave rather than later. Though I was also hoping that they would release all the Republic ships before going onto do planetary militia stuff... Surprised that the initial release wasn't a Most Wanted style box with punch for converting Y-wings, Arcs, Zs, Firespray etc. as well as some new ships. Though the models are pretty different it would have given a lot more options straight off, though I guess it would leave CIS players complaining as they would only have the Sheatheapeade (?)

Skinnereal wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Its weird that the article suggest that its an either/or thing "you can add this versatile ship to your squadrons in one of two forms." I presume that they were just being sloppy with the language. Wonder what the new card with the old autoblasters art is and really hope tis not the same as before! Cannon to add a strain maybe?

There is an FFG article talking about using it as a gunship, or as a shuttle. I expect this is what they mean, versatility in builds, not modes.

Seems logical, looks like four pilots per ship and one of them gets an astro slot. I would guess the transport has two crew slots and a cannon slot whilst the pod gets one crew and the astro.

 ingtaer wrote:

Red_Five wrote:
At least there isn't any sand in space!

I love your Eta-2 Actis-class Interceptor. I cannot wait until FFG releases that ship ❤❤❤

The Actis is one of my favorite ships of all time (in all sci-fi) and I was really hoping it would be released in this wave rather than later. Though I was also hoping that they would release all the Republic ships before going onto do planetary militia stuff... Surprised that the initial release wasn't a Most Wanted style box with punch for converting Y-wings, Arcs, Zs, Firespray etc. as well as some new ships. Though the models are pretty different it would have given a lot more options straight off, though I guess it would leave CIS players complaining as they would only have the Sheatheapeade (?)

I do not think FFG wants to do the Scum and Villainy style set again. It would make the Republic a lot bigger than the CIS (and the Resistance and First Order).

Also, the Republic Y Wing will likely be a medium ship, since the Republic's Y Wing was 23 meters long, while the Rebellion Y Wing was only 16. For reference, the U Wing (a medium-sized ship) is 24 meters long.

Additionally, the Clone z95 looks different than the later z95s used by scummy people and the Rebellion, so I would be disappointed if we did not get a brand new model

As much as I love the Actis, I think it is much less iconic than the Jedi Star Fighter and the Naboo fighter, as both were featured more prominently in episodes 1 and 2, as well as the Clone Wars TV show.

Yeah I am with you on the different models thing (though how they explain the difference in Y wings when one is just a stripped down version of t'other I don't know!) but with the great wailing and gnashing of teeth that has been the sequel faction players in Hyperspace I thought they might have just jumped the gun as a stand in until they get around to releasing the actual models for the period. Which makes me wonder about V-Wing, it was produced right at the end of the CW if memory serves and continued into the GE so I wonder/hope that it will be cross faction between the two which would mean GE get astros.

As much as I love the Actis, I think it is much less iconic than the Jedi Star Fighter and the Naboo fighter, as both were featured more prominently in episodes 1 and 2, as well as the Clone Wars TV show.

Dont care, I wanna have my Actis!!!1!!! Not some chromed up banana....

 Red_Five wrote:


As much as I love the Actis, I think it is much less iconic than the Jedi Star Fighter and the Naboo fighter, as both were featured more prominently in episodes 1 and 2, as well as the Clone Wars TV show.

Delta 7 wasn't in Episode 1 and its screen time in Episode 2 was as much as or less even than the Eta-2 in Episode 3. Both Jedi Fighters were featured prominently in Clone Wars.

The Naboo and Jedi fighters were pretty heavily marketed in many ways more than the characters in the films (notably as as title game characters). The Eta-2 was significantly less so, mostly just teased in trailers. It's gotten more attention over time, but that makes it less of a Falcon and more of a Snowspeeder.

I personally kind of like it, but the solar panels don't work for me. It's trying to hard to be a missing link, but kind of reminds me more of a TIE-Wing or one of the Uglies.

 ingtaer wrote:
Yeah I am with you on the different models thing (though how they explain the difference in Y wings when one is just a stripped down version of t'other I don't know!)

IIRC(and this is a big "if!"; it might since have been retconned), the big difference is that there were two models of Y-Wing:
The one that the Republic primarily used, with a larger cockpit with room for a gunner for the ion cannon and bomb system and heavier armor plating over the 'neck' and the engine nacelles. This is the one that was primarily considered to be a bomber.

The one that the Rebels had their hands on, a later production run that the Empire never claimed--the gunner was replaced by a remote firing ion cannon and the bombs tended towards being replaced with proton torpedoes instead.

Sorry for just butting in like this, I was just skimming through the thread and saw that question which tickled a memory.

At least we're getting our toys.

And it means there will be breadth of possible squads. All good thing. Patience, folks.

New toys spoiled in FFGs live show;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sK84WprD1o&fbclid=IwAR3iRmiSVr4p4qz4KC6XVk4xIMZm5DlZhtD8ZpOuZRAdnzHHbtJIocJr7ZQ

That Sofa is going to be dirt cheap. Which is exactly what the Resistance needs... but doesn't look good thematically, imho. I just want to see what other crews we get. But with everything still at the printer, it could be a while yet.

Everyone locally is screaming how bad the Electro-Proton bomb is. Just wait until they release the Zillo Beast model...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Yeah I am with you on the different models thing (though how they explain the difference in Y wings when one is just a stripped down version of t'other I don't know!)

IIRC(and this is a big "if!"; it might since have been retconned), the big difference is that there were two models of Y-Wing:
The one that the Republic primarily used, with a larger cockpit with room for a gunner for the ion cannon and bomb system and heavier armor plating over the 'neck' and the engine nacelles. This is the one that was primarily considered to be a bomber.

The one that the Rebels had their hands on, a later production run that the Empire never claimed--the gunner was replaced by a remote firing ion cannon and the bombs tended towards being replaced with proton torpedoes instead.

Sorry for just butting in like this, I was just skimming through the thread and saw that question which tickled a memory.

They have retconned it. The Rebel Y-wings represent Y-wings that had been stripped down for salvage. All their original guns and armor were scrapped before the Rebels managed to steal them.

They're kinda like all the T-80 MBTs that are knocking around various Middle Eastern countries. Sure, they're Russian made T-80s, but the Russians stripped out all the important stuff before offloading them to the highest bidder so they're not really up to the same standards of a Russian owned and operated T-80.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Everyone locally is screaming how bad the Electro-Proton bomb is. Just wait until they release the Zillo Beast model...

This thing is going to eat Epic ships and fat builds for lunch, if it costs less than 10pts I will be stunned. Just the area denial of it is worth that before one gets to the stripping shields, ioning and disarming parts. Also not going to be fun with a Hyena parked on a rock and using trajectory simulator to fire this off. Quiet limited in who can take it though as it needs a device slot, a mod slot and reload, for Scum (and Republic) thats just Y-Wings.

Star Fortress for tghe Resistance and TIE Punisher in the Empire.

It's a gimmick. I wouldn't take it if it's more than 6. It's super easy to dodge.

Aye, the super easy to dodge thing is why I like it as it will be excellent for breaking up enemy formations or denying a flanking maneuver. Range 2 is a 5 forward maneuver and that is a lot of ground to cover in two turns, the ability to force your opponent to either have to bug out or ride whatever punishment comes could be quite handy. But as a Scum player I just like messing with the oppos head/plans...

Yeah I've heard people thinking about using nym and carry it on a ship that can reload, drop it and then use nym to hold it till an opponent lands in range.

Only the Y can use it but a list of Nym with Ion turret and 4 ion Goons (leaves 8pts for the bomb) doesn't sound too awful.

That's my thought

You guys are just evil. I love it.

I'm not too sure a TIE swarm would need to worry about it too much, though, weirdly enough. Sure, the ion turn is a bummer, but it's not going to break your formation and hopefully you brought something else to support that swarm.

From my point of view the Jedi are evil... hang on that actually works nowadays.

Nah I don't reckon the various Imp swarms are going to really care but Rebel Beef will be weeping and amusingly enough the CIS swarms will be hit the hardest as you either break up their formation so they don't get to network or they get ioned and cant network either! and with how flimsy their ships are they will pop pretty quickly.
Not sure how useful it will against big bases but medium (like the Scuurg that's fairly popular) it could be handy. Still don't think its going to be a top tier thing but it should be fun!

The Electro-Proton Bomb is not going to be an issue. The 1-turn delay in detonation means it can be easily dodged but it does reward good play by timing the drop just right. If you catch a big points fortress with it, it's great but big ships are even harder to catch since they move so fast.

They move fast if they can boost. Which isn't all big bases. And if you're going to make sure they can't move fast... you can always use a Nonnac Reddof* to block easy ways out.

*Warriors of Ultimate Death

Thinking the bomb dropping Y (in the example list) would serve duty as blocker as well. The thing is though that as with all bombers its not really so much the damage that you can do but forcing your opponent to dance to your tune. As is said the radius of the actual bomb blast is fairly easy to dodge but in order to do so your opponent needs to be moving fast or in a direction that may not be in there interest, if you can force them to split up a formation or move really quickly then hopefully you can trap them in a kill box of your own ships. Of course you can always just ion them, drop the bomb and ion them some more...

TBH I just don't see it. The area denial works both ways and there are limited arrangements where you get to bomb your opponent for significant value but don't catch your own ships as well (or have to turn away from the engagement to escape). If you launch the bomb they can fly past it and k-turn behind you while your ships are pointed directly at the bomb and forced to turn away. If you drop it they can potentially break away or hold position outside of the radius while you are forced to joust straight at them. And if you fail to set up a head-on joust and they're coming at you from the side (or, worse, multiple directions) then they have even more options for avoiding the bomb while still getting to attack. Without the ability to take more than one of them or immediately detonate it you're relying way too much on being significantly more prepared than your opponent, and if you have such a skill advantage that they don't know how to counter the bomb then you don't need it to win.

IMO it might end up being an interesting gimmick, but unless it's cheap I don't see it getting much use.

I think that's why people are thinking about Nym with a Y-Wing carrying the bomb, cause he can hold the bomb while your ships are in the blast zone.

Nym plus another carrier just seems like a hell of an investment for something that has such variable outcomes. It also affects the Nym players just as much as their opponent because the blast range is so wide. You may get more control over when the bomb detonates but the amount of points you've sunk into making it happen just doesn't seem worthwhile. It's not like Nym's been seeing a lot of play in the meta and bombing Y-Wings are fairly rare too. You could go VTG on both but is that more powerful than just taking more VTG Y-Wings in general?

Hyena Preview;
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/5/13/living-starfighters/

I like that they're using the app to allow them to vary the upgrades available for each ship. So instead of Configurations or Titles you just choose the pilot card with the upgrade you want. Allows them to tailor the ship's abilities to its upgrades which is a good way of doing things.

Awesome ship! It'll be so fun to play with it

I saw the article title and lost my mind for the second before the picture loaded.

FFG: "hey, let's make a worse version of a 1.0 card that nobody used because it was terrible, 2.0 players will love it."

What?

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
What?

The new and even more terrible assault missiles.

Assault missiles weren't bad. Especially post guidance chips.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Assault missiles weren't bad. Especially post guidance chips.

They’re too situational.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Assault missiles weren't bad. Especially post guidance chips.

They really were, thus being almost nonexistent in competitive play.

If not for Harpoons they'd be the go to in any build with Jostero. On the joust against a formation they could wreck face. Even still I'd seen and used harpoons and assault missiles in conjunction. That double splash was beautiful.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
If not for Harpoons they'd be the go to in any build with Jostero.

So, a second-tier option in a list that could be charitably described as "not a relevant part of the competitive meta". Not saying much there.

On the joust against a formation they could wreck face.

"Could" is the key point. They might do some damage, if you made the poor decision to joust a list that wants to line up in formation and joust, if you managed to hit, if they didn't spread out to mitigate the damage, etc. There's a reason they never made any meaningful competitive impact, and now the 2.0 version is worse in every way.

I saw the N1 pilots in Polish on Instagram, does anyone else know if this has been translated? My Polish is a tad rusty, see.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I saw the N1 pilots in Polish on Instagram, does anyone else know if this has been translated? My Polish is a tad rusty, see.

Havent seen them (nor the Polish leak for that matter). Its only Rik and the Int. 3 we don't know isn't it? Padme and Annie were shown in the video on the last page and the Royal companions (cant remember the proper name) have been shown elsewhere. Got a link?

Alas no, only saw it fleetingly on Instagram. And since I'm not truly a 14 years-old, I don,t quite know how to find it again and post a link from that gosh darned application.

Well here is the article:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/5/20/new-tricks/










Think we are going to see lots of passive Phantoms from now.

 ingtaer wrote:
Think we are going to see lots of passive Phantoms from now.

I doubt it. The advantage over taking a normal focus action is marginal and unless it costs zero points the standard phantom list can't afford it. The only use I can see is getting target locks with low-PS ordnance carriers, but that raises the question of why you're paying points to make your action happen later when you could spend those points to increase your PS and avoid the problem you're trying to fix.

Because if the price is right, it might be worth it to pay just for that, rather than a useless EPT slot and "still not quite enough Initiative" to move after aces.

I'm curious as to why people think we'd see phantoms with Passive Sensors, though? Not one of them comes with TL or Calculate in their action bar.

The way I'm reading it is it'd let the ship take a target lock or calculate regardless of the ship having it. Which honestly my Reaper/2 Phantom list probably won't need Krennic/Tarkin crew anymore if the cost is cheaper then the collision detectors I normally use.

Might also be good for low initiative ships in general.

That would be insane.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
The way I'm reading it is it'd let the ship take a target lock or calculate regardless of the ship having it.

This is correct, and the reason why anyone is talking about using it on phantoms. An ability that says "perform {action}" can be used even if the action isn't on your action bar (though of course it doesn't add it to your action bar or allow you to do it any other way). It's just a fairly questionable value on anything besides ordnance carriers, and ordnance carriers already have the target lock action on their bar. And it's especially questionable when targeting computer seems to be in one of the preview spreads and will probably be a cheaper option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
That would be insane.

Why? It's, at best, an extremely minor buff.

Yeah but generally ordinance carriers have bad initiative and thus have a hard time locking something that then just moves out of arc. You have to have a shenanigan like Tarkin or mass barrage rockets which then use focus anyway.

This let's you lock up anything that gets in your gun sight.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Yeah but generally ordinance carriers have bad initiative and thus have a hard time locking something that then just moves out of arc. You have to have a shenanigan like Tarkin or mass barrage rockets which then use focus anyway.

This let's you lock up anything that gets in your gun sight.

It's not always the case that ordnance carriers are low Initiative - Redline, Wedge and Luke have all been fairly common ordnance carriers. It's more accurate to say that massed ordnance tends to come in the form of low Initiative ships. As Peregrine points out though, if Passive Sensors is above a certain cost you're gaining nothing by taking it on a low Initiative ship when you could be spending those points on getting, for example +2 Initiative by going from I2 generics to I4. If it's more expensive than that you might even be able to go from I2 generic to I4/I5 named pilots.

I'm also not seeing it on Phantoms. Getting a Target Lock is nice but often Focus is just as good. Yes, there are times when you don't have a shot and aren't getting shot when grabbing a TL is beneficial but in general you'll probably want Focus anyway. The Phantom lists at the moment don't have any points spare to add these sensors either and Whisper and Echo generally want a Collision Detector to increase their options when decloaking and moving.

Anyone want to theorycraft as to why the wave is delayed? Usual FFG shenanigans, or something more ominous?

Nah its just the boat keeps on getting Ioned, takes along time going from China to the USA only doing one forwards...

 ingtaer wrote:
Nah its just the boat keeps on getting Ioned, takes along time going from China to the USA only doing one forwards...

don't forget outmaneuvering the TIE fighters near Somalia

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Anyone want to theorycraft as to why the wave is delayed? Usual FFG shenanigans, or something more ominous?

It is probably stuck in the same log-jam as GW's Sylvaneth release.
Watch the "Potting Shed" clip on GW's community site for that announcement:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/08/a-late-bloom-for-the-sylvaneth/

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Anyone want to theorycraft as to why the wave is delayed? Usual FFG shenanigans, or something more ominous?

Designers committed honorable suicide after the shame of producing prequel trash, sinking the boat to purge all evidence of their failure from the universe? One can only dream...

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Anyone want to theorycraft as to why the wave is delayed? Usual FFG shenanigans, or something more ominous?

There a lot of real world tensions going on with China right now. But that would involve getting into politics to discuss it.

That's what my wife thought as well, but a few containers of gaming material hardly seem like the first things you'd hit, or even single out. I'd assume car part, building supplies, electronic widgets and foodstuff would have been hit much more broadly than they have already.

Unless Xi Jinping really wanted to field a full flight of N1s before anyone else?

As its just a couple of weeks delay (apparently) it seems more likely that a container got caught up in customs somewhere. Apparently the points rebalancing is going to happen at the end of next month now as well. That could be interesting, glad its earlier as I will have plenty of time to adjust before SoS.

Points decrease on Tie Defenders *fingers crossed* (yeah it probably won't happen)

Points increase on Wedge, please?

Rather have a points increase on Leia, she is stupidly cheap/broken at the moment in Beef lists.
If we are wish listing;
AS and Juke to be scaled in points by initiative.
Generic Republic Arcs to be made slightly cheaper.
Grappling struts to be made cheaper.
Generic Phantoms to be made more expensive.
All Scum ships to be made cheaper as well as their upgrades and get an extra attack and two extra defence... Seriously though something needs to happen with Scum as there are currently 2 good lists now that Boba has been nerfed (well and 0-0-0 and Han gunner). Cheaper Lancers maybe? Though I expect the M3A to get something as they are very rarely seeing play and are about to be rereleased.
Feel like FO need something as well.

Cheaper Lancers would be ace, love that ship.

Regarding Wedge, I played him plenty, I still think that for 52 points, he's very efficient. Too much, maybe.

Cheaper Tie Defenders so Tripfenders can be done again.

Lower the cost for HTD and Upsilons FFG really overswung on the points change here.

Lower points on Auzitucks, HWKs (or at least the moldy crow title), YT-2400, and Tie Aggressors.

And give Scruggs their ordnance back.

Never thought I'd see people complaining that Wedge is overpowered...

 ingtaer wrote:
Rather have a points increase on Leia, she is stupidly cheap/broken at the moment in Beef lists.
If we are wish listing;
AS and Juke to be scaled in points by initiative.
Generic Republic Arcs to be made slightly cheaper.
Grappling struts to be made cheaper.
Generic Phantoms to be made more expensive.
All Scum ships to be made cheaper as well as their upgrades and get an extra attack and two extra defence... Seriously though something needs to happen with Scum as there are currently 2 good lists now that Boba has been nerfed (well and 0-0-0 and Han gunner). Cheaper Lancers maybe? Though I expect the M3A to get something as they are very rarely seeing play and are about to be rereleased.
Feel like FO need something as well.

Why scale Juke to initiative? And generic Arcs to be cheaper?! They’re a steal at 42...

 Peregrine wrote:
Never thought I'd see people complaining that Wedge is overpowered...

He's not overpowered per se, he's just incredibly efficient, especially in a format that limits your choices like Hyperspace does.

Vargas79 wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Rather have a points increase on Leia, she is stupidly cheap/broken at the moment in Beef lists.
If we are wish listing;
AS and Juke to be scaled in points by initiative.
Generic Republic Arcs to be made slightly cheaper.
Grappling struts to be made cheaper.
Generic Phantoms to be made more expensive.
All Scum ships to be made cheaper as well as their upgrades and get an extra attack and two extra defence... Seriously though something needs to happen with Scum as there are currently 2 good lists now that Boba has been nerfed (well and 0-0-0 and Han gunner). Cheaper Lancers maybe? Though I expect the M3A to get something as they are very rarely seeing play and are about to be rereleased.
Feel like FO need something as well.

Why scale Juke to initiative? And generic Arcs to be cheaper?! They’re a steal at 42...

Juke gets more valuable at higher initiative (more likely to still have your evade token) so I reckon it should cost more for higher and less for lower. Yeah the Initiative 2 Arc is good at 42, the initiative 3 is a joke at 47.

Points change is confirmed for the 25th of this month if no one noticed. looks like FFG are doing a live broadcast of it so that could be fun.

 ingtaer wrote:
Juke gets more valuable at higher initiative (more likely to still have your evade token) so I reckon it should cost more for higher and less for lower.

But the same is true for pretty much any upgrade. Torps are more valuable if you're more likely to be alive to use them and can get a target lock at higher PS, anything with an arc restriction is easier to use when you can boost/BR last, etc. The advantage of high PS is already built into the base ship cost, screwing around with variable upgrade costs should be a last resort thing for upgrades that obviously have a massive difference in power on different ships/pilots and risk creating major balance issues at a fixed cost.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Juke gets more valuable at higher initiative (more likely to still have your evade token) so I reckon it should cost more for higher and less for lower.

But the same is true for pretty much any upgrade. Torps are more valuable if you're more likely to be alive to use them and can get a target lock at higher PS, anything with an arc restriction is easier to use when you can boost/BR last, etc. The advantage of high PS is already built into the base ship cost, screwing around with variable upgrade costs should be a last resort thing for upgrades that obviously have a massive difference in power on different ships/pilots and risk creating major balance issues at a fixed cost.

Absolutely and the inherent cost of the higher initiative, pilot ability and seemingly paying for options does balance that to a great degree, especially things like torps. This bit "screwing around with variable upgrade costs should be a last resort thing for upgrades that obviously have a massive difference in power on different ships/pilots and risk creating major balance issues at a fixed cost." is why I think AS and Juke need to be variant cost. Currently you pretty much only see Juke on Phantoms (occasionally A Wings) but if they drop the price of the Defender it may be viable and I don't doubt we will be seeing it on the N1. Those three ships (Phantom/Def/N1) all gain an evade as a free action under very easy to get circumstances so Juke just seems like an auto take, its a powerful ability and if you have a free evade there is no opportunity cost (like torps needing a lock to fire when you may be better served to take a focus).

 ingtaer wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Juke gets more valuable at higher initiative (more likely to still have your evade token) so I reckon it should cost more for higher and less for lower.

But the same is true for pretty much any upgrade. Torps are more valuable if you're more likely to be alive to use them and can get a target lock at higher PS, anything with an arc restriction is easier to use when you can boost/BR last, etc. The advantage of high PS is already built into the base ship cost, screwing around with variable upgrade costs should be a last resort thing for upgrades that obviously have a massive difference in power on different ships/pilots and risk creating major balance issues at a fixed cost.

Absolutely and the inherent cost of the higher initiative, pilot ability and seemingly paying for options does balance that to a great degree, especially things like torps. This bit "screwing around with variable upgrade costs should be a last resort thing for upgrades that obviously have a massive difference in power on different ships/pilots and risk creating major balance issues at a fixed cost." is why I think AS and Juke need to be variant cost. Currently you pretty much only see Juke on Phantoms (occasionally A Wings) but if they drop the price of the Defender it may be viable and I don't doubt we will be seeing it on the N1. Those three ships (Phantom/Def/N1) all gain an evade as a free action under very easy to get circumstances so Juke just seems like an auto take, its a powerful ability and if you have a free evade there is no opportunity cost (like torps needing a lock to fire when you may be better served to take a focus).

Juke gets better the more times it is taken in a single list. That’s where the issue lies, not with initiative.

Actually, ships that get a free evade on a rather simple condition (Defender, Phantom, N1) get stupidly good with Juke. So maybe not scale with initiative, but maybe those three ships should pay more for it? Maybe?

Resistance crew leaked;

New rules reference released;
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/14/68/146862ef-287f-47d9-955d-50e1c324c92b/swzrulesreference_v104-compressed.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1-a8CO5U8tVQScbjiTFCM8DlgrfzOtwq_R2xTF8BjnlaWgoqQwRCMf40M

Mostly clarifications of the new wave stuff and some tided up wording (also now allows Proach and Yushun to work as everyone thought was intended).

And still no points for Wave 4.

How are you enjoying the Quick Build format?

Quickbuild… Quickbuild… That's the format where you use the cards to stop table legs from wobbling isn't it?

Never actually played it nor seen it played, yourself?

So points for the wave have been announced as being released on the same day as the wave, July 11th. The rebalance is still on for the 25th of this month.

Didn't they used to release points a few days early?

Or on time, or a couple of days late...

I think the best bet is to buy a magic 8 ball and go with whatever answer you get from that!

You mean June 11th? Cause I know some youtubers especially Hairy Nick in Australia already got his wave 4 content and did unboxing. It can't be that long of a wait for us in the States.

It will be JULY 11th.



also

Well...fudge.

Time enough for all those beautiful repaints to be done for day 1.

And the Resistance transport article finally shows up,

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/6/17/rebellion-reborn/

Still weeks left to wait until we get them, officially. Unofficially the wave can be bought at Barnes and Noble as of a couple of days ago.

And can only be played via Quick Build format, which means not at all for the purists

Points change is tomorrow for those who want to watch (1300hrs Central US time) and it has been announced that it includes wave 4!

Yup. Went to the gym early and all my chores are done just for this.

So what did we think?
Still trying to take in the changes but am a bit miffed that al three of the lists I have used recently have been nerfed into the ground!
Initial thoughts, on the plus side the Shadow Caster got cheaper for all pilots (bar Ketsu) and so did the title and Seevor remains unchanged. Like that Leia crew went up as did B-Wing named pilots.
On the negative side... everything else? Really dislike the way they nerfed the Dreadlok list especially, increases in points for turrets, VTG and the ships!
Not sure on the points for the new wave stuff, i was expecting the N1 to be costed quite highly but with Juke nerfed I am not sure if they have gone a bit too far.

Edit;
Convenient document of notes and changes;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iuIMz3c645icIUehrRCNmyj7tWTgScD2K8dF_JwKN1w/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true&fbclid=IwAR0Xc88Z6twrudWqHr51Q0d81S-1VvES38rohcQ-G2F4LOt4pi7rHgvuzC8#

My list's bid is gone, but it was such a small amount, it didn't matter that much. It's just weird to have a Vader list at 200 pts flush.

I see that the Jedi have gone down, which is good. The Delta 7B has gone up (they really, really don't want Anakin to field it, eh?)

I got to the FLGS and realized I had left home without even checking the Resistance prices. the YT-1300 mercifully went down, as did the Star Fortress, but I'm still not sure I'm going to field the latter. It's sad, because I like the look of the ship.

This is copy pasted from my other haunts but to share my notes on the points:

Rebel Ships:
Points up on Ten and Braylen...get it...don't like it...but get it.

No points drop on the Auzituck? Really?

Hooray for cheaper E-Wings. Corran and Gavin didn't change but both coulda used 5 more points off

HWK-290s down in price is nice

Surprised only Cassian got a points bump up on the Ueuy

Surprised the VCX didn't come down in points

BOOOOOO they took away the Falcon's Illicit! BOOOOO!
There's not that many good mods!

Surprised Dash and the YT-2400 didn't drop in points, it's like 20-25 points too expensive.

Rebel Crew:
Not a regen fan so regen stuff doesn't bother me.

Leia seems right

Wish Magva had went down to about 4

Why did Maul go up when he's shackled to Ezra?

R2D2 astro is fine, but his crew card is junk, why did this go up so high?

Rebel Others:
Ezra gunner came down...maybe use?

All the titles are still way to pricey. Moldy Crow should be 5-9, Outrider 7ish.
---------------------------------------------------------
Empire Ships:
I expected Hatchetman to get a slight nerf

V1 getting a points break is nice, still won't use it

Why make Vader more expensive?

Why make Fel more expensive?

Hooray cheaper Tie Aggressors...(looks ahead to turret costs, barrage rockets, and vtg....F***K FFG!)

Take 6 more points off the Delta and we're good on the Defender

Stop messing with the Phantom!!! (looks ahead to see juke... STOP IT!)

Deci gets a break...that's good, now tell me why the VCX didn't get a break?

Imp Crew:
All good. All good.
------------------------------------------------------------
Scum Ships:
I'll take even more points off BroBots, sure.

Why are you nerfing Drea? What'd she do to you?

Won't complain about the Firespray getting cheaper

HWKs got cheaper but they feel weaker still than the rebels...why not cheapen Palob too? His Initiative is garbage.

Also Torkil should be cheaper still..like 32ish

Won't complain about the Jumpmaster getting cheaper...except for Manaroo...why no love for her?

Kihraxz's not named Talonbane got happier, Illicit for a mod is a good trade.

Lancer got cheaper...except for Ketsu...why I don't know, but I'll take it.

Kimogila got cheaper...but it's still hard to find a use with it's bad Initiative.

Really surprised the M3a didn't get a 4 point break accross the board.

Lok Revenant didn't need a points bump either.

Neither did Guri WTH!?!?!

YV-666 getting cheaper is nice.

Scum Crew:
Still don't get Maul being 12. 8-10 maybe.

Scum others:
Moldy Crow still should be 5-9 my god, it still makes the HWK nearly useless.

I'll take that generous discount on the Shadow Caster though
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIS Ships:

I'll take the discount on the Hot Rod

Don't get the points bump on the Sith Infiltrator's Force users,
but the generic and droid pilot got nice discounts.

Vulture went down...didn't need to but okay. I mean...(looks at the ESC...why change either of these?)

CIS Others:
Grappling Struts...I still won't use them, but those that do...yeah no big deal.

Probe Droids, Discord missiles...yeah that's fine.

ESC makes no sense to bump up when the carrier of the ordinance got a bump down...doesn't make since.

I'll take further discounts on the Hot Rod's toys though.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Republic Ships:
Cheaper Arcs....well...great if you play Republic...I mean I dabble but I think they are the core of the lists so far.

Ana went up...not surprising...why he's cheaper then his older self on the x1 makes no damn sense.

Delta getting cheaper otherwise is okay.

V-19 getting a points break is nice too...just wish I had more than two.

Republic Others:
7B is stupidly overpriced.
CLT is a nice discount but eating the mod slot hurts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First Order:

Nice to see the fighters nearly across the board getting some points drop

But the Upsilon! Holy frak! You nerfed it too hard last time! Stop! Go back! There's no excuse for upping this thing!
It needed to come back DOWN after the last points jack up. Now I'll never fly it much less two.

First Order Others:
HTD is still too expensive, but at least it didn't get jacked up further. Seriously just make it 10 for Door mouse and 2 for everyone ELSE!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Ships:

Glad the StarFortress got some relief.

Don't see why the Rz-2 got nerfed.

Glad the Scavenged YT-1300 got a break and hey it keeps it's Illicit slot! I like it more than the Rebel one now.

The points drop on some of the lesser T-70 pilots is fine too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generic Astros:
I don't give a diddly about R2...moving on.

Generic Crew:
Tactical Officer getting a points bump is surprising.

Force Powers:
The Force Powers in general getting cheaper is good, but I see no reason why Hate should be variable based on ship size. It's nice, but it's only working if you're dying.

Generic Gunners:
BOOO FFG BOOOO Veteran Turret Gunner was fine where it is!

Generic Illicit:
I'll take that discount on Contraband Cybernetics all day long.

Don't like Inertial Dampeners so fine to see it go up.

Generic Ordinance:
Not sure why Barrage Rockets went up. Seriously gave hope to my Tie Aggressors and then kicked them in the teeth.

Why are Proton Torps going UP!? Everyone stopped using them when they went to 12! 12 was too much! 10 is okay, in fact the new Plasma's should be 6-7 and you can put Protons back to 9 again and it'd be fair.

Generic Talents:
Not sure why Debris Gambit was an issue.

BOO on Juke going up BOOOOOOO BOOOOO! FFG hates Empire! Gah!

Swarm Tactics being scaled makes sense. Don't like it, but it makes sense.

Trick Shot at 4 stinks, it's nice but it's not THAT powerful.

Generic Turrets:
Dorsal AND Ion getting nerfed? Seriously? Without VTG no one TOOK turrets. And dorsal is a lame duck. Come on this isn't TLT anymore! I was hoping these would drop more if VTG got bumped up.

Answer to all those "don't see why X was nerfed" questions: because someone once mentioned it maybe being an ok tournament list. It's very clear at this point that FFG has very little understanding of what they're doing and is overreacting by nerfing everything that ever succeeds in a tournament. Drea appeared in a successful list? She must be overpowered by at least a few points because everything that wins is overpowered, so nerf her. There was that article about how Vynder is a useful ship? Nerf now. Etc.

Kind of agree with P here ,seems like tinkering just to be seen doing tinkering

I don't pay as much attention to this as you lot do, but I get the feeling they are doing it for the 'Greater Good'.
If a tournament gets stagnant with the same list every time, people adapt to counter it. Evolutionary thinking will say, if given enough time, new lists will get used to block the new-big-thing, and they will become dominant.
So, if FFG tinkers enough to make the winning lists look too expensive, or break them outright, players will either tweak that list, or do something else.

So yes, nerfing the best lists is one way to look at it, but it may also look like a cleansing exercise to encourage variety.

 Skinnereal wrote:
I

So yes, nerfing the best lists is one way to look at it, but it may also look like a cleansing exercise to encourage spending.

fixed it,

FFG seem to be treading down the flail and hope approach to rules tweaks, dropping the cost of a frame and then putting up the cost of said frames stock upgrades or vice versa resulting in a net change of next to fup all suggests a spinning dartboard approach to balance, but hey if they want to GW their game thats up to them

What ships did they do that to? From memory the D7 where the Jedi mostly went down and 7B went up (Vultures as well but they were and are pretty rubbish). Pretty much every other list they 'balanced' out of existence by increasing all the costs. Dual Siths both the ship and Hate went up, Drea and Loks, both ships, turrets and gunner went up, all Phantoms and Juke went up, all the ships in rebel beef and Leia went up etc.

I am not much of a fan of the way they are addressing the points changes but it is not just a cynical marketing ploy. Lets look at this waves rereleased ships;
B-Wing both named pilots went up.
Falcon lost its best trick (access to illicits) and R2 went up.
Decimators gained a crew and got cheaper and they are still crap.
SF and VN both got lots of point drops but none massively.
Wave 5;
M3a stayed the same and is crap (other than Sunny).
Ghost is unchanged but Leia, R2 and turrets went up.
JM5K all bar Manaroo went down and gained gunner and is very doubtful if that has done anything.
TAP went down and it might nearly be viable.

If they wanted to just encourage spending they should have gone about ti much better, like making their rereleases actually be decent viable ships unless they assume everyone will rebuy them for a slightly new model and different paint?

Skinnereal and peregrine were pretty spot on with their analysis, what FFG did is follow their same pattern from the Upsilon nerf, see something that is (or might possibly) dominate the tourney scene and jump up and down on it. They have tried to recost some stuff to make it more viable as well but how well they done with that its hard to know (largely looks unpromising).

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
So yes, nerfing the best lists is one way to look at it, but it may also look like a cleansing exercise to encourage spending.

fixed it,

Yeah, that too.