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Post by: NoseGoblin
The old thread is getting a bit long in the tooth, at 191 pages.
I am looking forward to new product releases and new Kickstarter campaigns, so this seems a good point to update to a more current thread.
The old thread can be found here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/503411.page
Welcome to the official, ongoing news and rumors thread for DreamForge-Games.
You can also keep up to date here: http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/
You can find our kits as they are released here: http://dreamforge-games.com/catalog/
You can check out the current Kickstarter news from our home page slide show: https://dreamforge-games.com/
(GRAV-STUG KICKSTARTER RELAUNCH) http://kck.st/2Uv6qHE
Discounts ranging from 38.2% to 50.9% for non retail backers.
Retailer level packs priced at 56.4% to 67.3% off.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RESERVED
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Yyyeeeessssss!
Long have I lusted over the concept art
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Yay!
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Post by: Krinsath
Looking forward to adding a Stug Zug! 
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Post by: JoeRugby
Glad to see you back Mark.
Depending on price inc shipping you’ll have a backer here.
How goes progress on the resin minis?
And will this Kickstarter give the option to add some of the previous plastic kits onto my pledge?
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Post by: warboss
FlugStug is a go!
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Post by: kestral
I like the short barrel look.
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Post by: RiTides
Oh man, that side view looks so good!!
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Post by: inqscott
Ready and waiting glad your back
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Post by: Nicky J
I’m def in for at least one of these - I’ve been trying to find a project to use up the left over weapons from the fw carnodon I bought a while ago - they are def gonna end up on one of the flugstugs. Can’t wait.
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Post by: Malika2
I want that terrain in the background!
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Post by: Azazelx
Good to see you back, Mark. Really hoping the new business model works out better for you long-term as well.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I'm looking forward to the KS, and hope the price isn't "unreasonable".
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Just FYI, the email you sent out says the Kickstarter runs "March 25 - February 4".
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Post by: Theophony
whats wrong with an 11month Kickstarter?
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Post by: NoseGoblin
I had a good laugh after I got through banging my head on the table.... ahhhhh sigh. Too much crap on my PC's desktop  Ah well I get another chance to fk-it-up in my release day reminders
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Post by: RiTides
Don't worry, you got the important date right  (March 25th!). Have you considered running it for longer, or are you pretty set on short and sweet 
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Post by: dekinrie
Sometimes a short campaign is better, I've seen month long ones sag heavily in the middle with people pulling pledges
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
it all depends how many potential backers know about it at launch time,
If you've got the word out a short campaign probably works better
If you've not managed to get the word out well enough a long one is better (even with people dropping out) as it gives people time to discover the project
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Post by: NoseGoblin
Given that this campaign has no stretch goals, no marketing hype give-away or other promotion that unlock over time, 30 days would be to its detriment IMO... Could it go a bit longer than ten? yeah perhaps... Up to 17 would be about all I could see. I may bump it to 12 just to get us into the weekend.
As for the word getting out, no way to know for sure, according to some FB views I have reached a bit over 12k and a mailing list of about 3K... Still not enough IMO, which brings me to the next question. Where to drop targeted adds? I would love feedback on that!
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Put posts in as many Space Marine and IG groups as you can find and target FB ads to 40k players.
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Post by: Stormonu
 NoseGoblin wrote:Given that this campaign has no stretch goals, no marketing hype give-away or other promotion that unlock over time, 30 days would be to its detriment IMO... Could it go a bit longer than ten? yeah perhaps... Up to 17 would be about all I could see. I may bump it to 12 just to get us into the weekend.
As for the word getting out, no way to know for sure, according to some FB views I have reached a bit over 12k and a mailing list of about 3K... Still not enough IMO, which brings me to the next question. Where to drop targeted adds? I would love feedback on that!
I’d second a slightly longer KS, some people only get paid every two weeks (hint, hint).
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Post by: warboss
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Put posts in as many Space Marine and IG groups as you can find and target FB ads to 40k players.
I'd probably add Wierd War II sites and groups as well for example like those for Dust. Just starting a thread with a heads up may be sufficient without buying ads necessarily on facebook. If they can put a giant particle beam on an IS-3 officially in that game then a hover Stug should fit right in.
Stormonu wrote:
I’d second a slightly longer KS, some people only get paid every two weeks (hint, hint).
That's a good point.
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Post by: Mousemuffins
 Stormonu wrote:
I’d second a slightly longer KS, some people only get paid every two weeks (hint, hint).
This Kickstarter ends on the 4th of april. Slightly more than three weeks from now..... (hint hint...)
Anyhoo, I'm likely backings this. The design is rather wonderful.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
I had a chance to speak to a few customers and potential backers... I have extended to campaign until the 16th 12:00 midnight.
Hopefully that helps those placed in a bid due to pay-day issues.
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Post by: WWW-STL
what about infantry units?they all no longer available?or should become resin kits?
buy alot of infantry kits,but just use forgeworld stuff for they special weapon.Eisenkern Army need they official special weapon. 
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Post by: shasolenzabi
I must have! I will be able to put towards the kick-starter early April!
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
WWW-STL wrote:what about infantry units?they all no longer available?or should become resin kits?
buy alot of infantry kits,but just use forgeworld stuff for they special weapon.Eisenkern Army need they official special weapon.
The plastic Eisenkern are still available on the Dreamforge site.
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Post by: Azazelx
NoseGoblin wrote:I had a chance to speak to a few customers and potential backers... I have extended to campaign until the 16th 12:00 midnight.
Hopefully that helps those placed in a bid due to pay-day issues.
Send out a heads-up, new campaign coming soon" to previous Dreamforge KS backers via the KS update system. Do this ASAP.
Then send out a "hey, the new campaign is live" once it goes live.
I wouldn't have had a clue if I hadn't happened to see this thread, as I'm only on Dakka a few times a week (if that) lately. Previous backers who don't follow this thread, or your twitter/facebook/whatever will have no idea whatsoever that this is coming up - and with a short campaign you risk missing them.
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Post by: Andrew1975
Will you have any preproduction samples? I usually find out about the kickstarters I back from beasts of war. I think they do a pretty good job. I'm not sure if or what they charge to review something.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
 Andrew1975 wrote:Will you have any preproduction samples? I usually find out about the kickstarters I back from beasts of war. I think they do a pretty good job. I'm not sure if or what they charge to review something.
No production samples... The tooling has not been cut, that's what the KS is for.
To make tooling and bring the kit to life in HIPS plastic. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Azazelx wrote: NoseGoblin wrote:I had a chance to speak to a few customers and potential backers... I have extended to campaign until the 16th 12:00 midnight.
Hopefully that helps those placed in a bid due to pay-day issues.
Send out a heads-up, new campaign coming soon" to previous Dreamforge KS backers via the KS update system. Do this ASAP.
Then send out a "hey, the new campaign is live" once it goes live.
I wouldn't have had a clue if I hadn't happened to see this thread, as I'm only on Dakka a few times a week (if that) lately. Previous backers who don't follow this thread, or your twitter/facebook/whatever will have no idea whatsoever that this is coming up - and with a short campaign you risk missing them.
Great idea! had not even thought about reaching out through the old campaign using a project update.... Update posted.
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Post by: Necros
As far as production samples goes, what about 3D printing? Then you could have a physical prototype to show=
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Post by: Andrew1975
Maybe some mockups then? Your products are always super nice. I've got bunch of them.......havent really figured out what to do with them, but thats another story. I don't know what you have as far as marketing budget, but getting BOLS or OTT to spread the word I think would help massively. I would say at least get one 3d printed even if its just a block of resin and pro painted to show what it looks like for real, CGI only goes so far. Are you going to be offering any packages of your current stuff on the kickstarter? I would get those pro built and painted too to show you have a whole line of good quality products and this isnt just "wishful" product. Its been a while since your last kickstarter, I dont know how many new people even know about you.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
I bought quite a few of your things and I can honestly say, just by themselves they were fun models, AND I had the added bonus of a lot of extra bits and stuff to throw on my other stuff to enhance them.
Have you ever considered maybe retooling or making a new variation of the stormtrooper-type models? Maybe with a bit more 'bulk' without pushing them into being the heavy armor models? Variant helmets and such? I love the ones you have now, and enjoy building them and using the stuff- so, of course MORE would always be awesome.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
NoseGoblin wrote:I had a chance to speak to a few customers and potential backers... I have extended to campaign until the 16th 12:00 midnight.
That's a much better plan, what with people doing their taxes and knowing their refunds on April 15th.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
48.5 hours and counting.... Plenty of time for more beer and pizza.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
backed and shared (placeholder until I see how Brexit will play out, but I figure the more backers the better however it goes)
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Post by: Siygess
Man, I wonder if I could find a small turret to fit on the cupola? If I covered up the main gun it would make a pretty sweet and much more modern looking Cobra GEV-12..
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Post by: Krinsath
In for a FlugStugZug.
Best of luck Mark!
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Post by: warboss
I like the longer, thinner barrel (top version) that looks like a laser version of the 7,5 cm Pak 39 L/48. 
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Post by: Tannhauser42
I'm in for three!
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Post by: NoseGoblin
Thank you everyone... Thank you again for your support!
I have reached out to my past news sites and have a targeted FB add campaign running and a couple other social media adverts running... If you have suggestions on who to reach out to please let me know.
If you have a forum or small gaming group you frequent, if I might impose on you to drop in and let them know, it would help greatly.
We are off to a good start for sure! Thank you!
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Post by: Theophony
NoseGoblin wrote:Thank you everyone... Thank you again for your support!
I have reached out to my past news sites and have a targeted FB add campaign running and a couple other social media adverts running... If you have suggestions on who to reach out to please let me know.
If you have a forum or small gaming group you frequent, if I might impose on you to drop in and let them know, it would help greatly.
We are off to a good start for sure! Thank you!
Well you might try some of the painting youtubers. Like LukesAPS, send them some of the infantry or a leviathan to paint up and see if they’ll do a video and announce the KS. Probably too late to get many or any before the KS, but maybe some of them have stuff from your previous KS that they can show the details I and then announce the KS.
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Post by: shasolenzabi
I will be adding in for 2 next week
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Post by: Alpharius
Does this excellent tank have dimensions similar to the not-so-excellent Primaris Repulsor?
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Post by: Azazelx
Not sure of the dimensions of the Repulsor, but here are the ones for this tank...
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Post by: Flinty
I love it... "Estimated" dimensions in mm down to 2 decimal places
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Post by: warboss
 Flinty wrote:I love it... "Estimated" dimensions in mm down to 2 decimal places
Future space wehrmacht is very precise apparently.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
Flinty wrote:I love it... "Estimated" dimensions in mm down to 2 decimal places
Give or take a thousandth of a millimeter.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
German efficiency... Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen and Messerschmidt.
With that pedigree, what do you expect?
Man, I forgot what a full time job this becomes, bouncing around like a ping-pong ball placing ads, checking ads, updates, chatting... Ahhhhhhh I missed this Seriously good fun and compared to my ~move at my own pace~ daily routine its invigorating.
Its been a pretty solid first day, not looking forward to the middle dip, thats always a nail biter.
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Post by: cuda1179
I'm going to be getting some no matter what. However, I'll be waiting a few days until I learn what the GW small Primaris skimmer looks like. If it's fugly I'll get a couple more of these for conversions.
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Post by: Yonan
 Alpharius wrote:Does this excellent tank have dimensions similar to the not-so-excellent Primaris Repulsor?
I may have been thinking similarly!
Damn she's a handsome one.
Edit: Google says Repulsor dimensions are "More or less (length-width-height) - 170x110x120(this varies on how the turret was built, but i doubt it could go over 130)"
Rep - STUG
170 - 130
110 - 82
120 - 41
Seems substantially smaller : ( Height is probably parially the flight stand, length with the longer barrel could be about the same, Maybe some sponsons tacked on to widen her out?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I'm in for one, mostly to support Dreamforge. I've got plenty of vehicles for my Eisenkern already, but none of them hover all badass like the flugstug. I'll be even happier if the laser or plasma cannon barrels are included in the kit.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Same!
I really don't need more models, but I think it's worth it to support DreamForge.
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Post by: Stormonu
I'm planning to put in for 3 myself this weekend, and see if I can talk the local FLGS to put in an order as well.
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Post by: Padre
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:I'm in for one, mostly to support Dreamforge. I've got plenty of vehicles..., but none of them hover all badass like the flugstug.
This is exactly what I'm thinking.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Alpharius wrote:Does this excellent tank have dimensions similar to the not-so-excellent Primaris Repulsor?
It's the size of an IG Chimera
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Post by: Alpharius
Ah, so not so good for a counts-as Repulsor but good enough to be a counts-as something-or-other of someone else.
i.e., I'll buy one to support Dreamforge too!
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Post by: Bobby Hostile
I'm just starting a "Guard" army. I'm planning to buy 4 of them to replace the Leman Russ (hate that model) but I'm really hoping the longer barrels make it into the kit.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Honestly, extending the barrel for a more traditional "tank hunter" look is one of my lower concerns. It'd just be inserting a polystyrene tube, which is a really easy "conversion". I've even suggested it in the KS Comments, as an easy 2-in-1 option. Even stratchbuilding a new StuH-style mantlet would be relatively easy. The only tricky barrel conversion would be making a StuG III/G-style Saukopf "pig's head" mantlet. Hint, hint, Mark! 
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Post by: Myrthe
Alpharius wrote:Ah, so not so good for a counts-as Repulsor but good enough to be a counts-as something-or-other of someone else.
i.e., I'll buy one to support Dreamforge too!
Hmm, a little mod work and it might make a cool Tempest-like Landspeeder for Primaris.
I know, I know. I'm more of a model-builder so don't really concern myself with game rules.
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Post by: Stormonu
Probably would also make a great Tau Gu'vesa Hammerhead...
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Post by: Fenriswulf
I was just thinking that. I am looking for a different style of vehicle for a Tau army (both Devilfish and Hammerhead), and this might just be it. If needs be, I can always add in engines on the sides to space it out a bit more, but this looks pretty spot on so far.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Honestly, extending the barrel for a more traditional "tank hunter" look is one of my lower concerns. It'd just be inserting a polystyrene tube, which is a really easy "conversion". I've even suggested it in the KS Comments, as an easy 2-in-1 option.
Even stratchbuilding a new StuH-style mantlet would be relatively easy.
The only tricky barrel conversion would be making a StuG III/G-style Saukopf "pig's head" mantlet.
Hint, hint, Mark!
It would not take much work to mok that up for an STL file..... That and a traditional barrel and brake would be manageable....
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Post by: JAKH
In for 8 to make 2 platoons.
I'm really hoping that the H.E.L. and the long barrelled HVC make it onto the sprue for a Panzerjaeger look.
Question: would the long HVC barrel be sized to accept the various muzzle brakes available from Blood and Skulls (Machinator)?
J
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Post by: NoseGoblin
JAKH wrote:In for 8 to make 2 platoons.
I'm really hoping that the H.E.L. and the long barrelled HVC make it onto the sprue for a Panzerjaeger look.
Question: would the long HVC barrel be sized to accept the various muzzle brakes available from Blood and Skulls (Machinator)?
J
Honest answer... I have no idea. I have not purchased a GW kit in many many years.
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Post by: DeChevalier
Mark,
Any chance your webstore will be restocking the various Valkir kits? I'd love to throw some $$ your way...
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Post by: shasolenzabi
More pledges needed to get that STuG project off the ground!
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Post by: Stormonu
Got mine in now, just got to get a few friends interested...
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Post by: NoseGoblin
And so you shall have it!
I may try to get those in plastic at some point, but for now..... The .STL files will be added to the Kickstarter.
I should have a demonstration and images up by Monday? Automatically Appended Next Post:  DeChevalier wrote:Mark,
Any chance your webstore will be restocking the various Valkir kits? I'd love to throw some $$ your way...
Unfortunately, all those tools need to be re-cut....
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Post by: Yonan
Ouch ; / That was a great kit.
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Post by: DeChevalier
NoseGoblin wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
DeChevalier wrote:Mark,
Any chance your webstore will be restocking the various Valkir kits? I'd love to throw some $$ your way...
Unfortunately, all those tools need to be re-cut....
That is unfortunate... I've pledged for a triple StuG… Now I need to fill them with Armored Knights!
Any plans on the horizon to run a KS specifically to recut those molds?...
… and, maybe get some of those AWESOME Shadowkesh??
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Post by: oldravenman3025
This is one I've been waiting for. Already submitted my pledge.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
STL file format printable buildings…   Two building styles: · Stucco · Masonry Each building set will come with three window pane variants, three architectural window embellishments, store-front wall sections, two entrance designs that match the wall design, two roof designs, files to create interior walls and doors. One accessory set to convert your creation: · WWII / Weird Wars · Contemporary · Sci-Fi with a 'Blade Runner' feel The accessory set encompasses these three time periods and contains items to help set your creation into the time period of your choosing. Items such as lamp posts, signage, street lights, mail boxes, fire escape and other accessories that help set the stage for your grand adventure. (WITH STUG $10.00 per file set, $30.00 for all three sets) Each set is a separate STL file collection and is added to an existing pledge for those who have already backed for one or more Grav-StuG’s. The cost for each file set for backers of the StuG is $10.00 per set, a 50% savings. If you would like all three sets, simply add $30.00 to your pledge. (STL FILE PLEDGE ~ ONLY ~ $20.00 per file set, $60.00 for all three sets) Those wishing to back for the STL files only, without backing for a StuG model kit. Each file set is $20.00. If you would like all three file sets, simply pledge for $60.00, using the “STL FILE REWARD ~ONLY~” backer rewards section. · Please note- This is not an all-inclusive license; you are granted the use of these file for your personal use only. You may not sell give or transfer these files to any other party or post them in a manner that allows for transfer to third parties. Nor are you given the rights to manufacture for sale product based on these files…. -They are for your personal use only- Expected delivery date of all STL files is October 2019 (There is now shipping charge) Files will be delivered electronically.  
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Post by: Necros
Hmm.. those buildings would be perfect for a Jazzpunk city...
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
I think you should have done a kickstarter to make those buildings in plastic.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
He still can, let him finish this one first.
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Post by: Alpharius
Seconded!
I would buy...a lot of them.
I'm talking a lot a lot of them!
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Post by: Theophony
Alpharius wrote:
Seconded!
I would buy...a lot of them.
I'm talking a lot a lot of them!
But would it be more than the cost of a 3D printer? If yes, then buy the printer and these files and save money. He doesn’t have to deal with shipping, production or logistics with the file. Wish I had a printer to use, even just for this.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Alpharius wrote:
Seconded!
I would buy...a lot of them.
I'm talking a lot a lot of them!
Whoa! Like, three??
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Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, sure.
Three.
Or maybe a whole 4' x 8' table's worth?
Is that three?
I think that would be more then 3.
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Post by: Theophony
Five is right out  .
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Post by: NoseGoblin
First... Thank you for posting! I just dropped in to do the same.
Printer prices are coming down for sure. There are some reasonably priced resin printers out now... The killer on printing an entire table will be the resin costs. Better off printing one and pulling a mold if you are looking at a full table of buildings (JMO)
As far as plastic. Would love to but I'm not sure how much traction it would get.. No, really, I have no idea. I can estimate a tooling cost of about $35k and going up from there depending on how many accessories you tried to include.
It would be expensive to ship, (in comparison to other kits) and that would be the hard to swallow part of an item like this.
Fingers crossed we continue to climb and the STL's add something to backer numbers and total $$$.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
I suspect the terrain would have a much broader appeal than the grav stug. A lot more people could come up with a use for it. And a handful of people might buy enough for a whole table.
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Post by: shasolenzabi
So, as the deadline is close at hand, and goal is not fully met, will there be an extension of the goal or will the project go ahead?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'm pretty sure if it doesn't fund the project won't go ahead, Dreamforge needs the money to make the product they're not in a position to pay for tooling/production by themselves
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Post by: shasolenzabi
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I'm pretty sure if it doesn't fund the project won't go ahead, Dreamforge needs the money to make the product they're not in a position to pay for tooling/production by themselves
Yeah and they need more pledges
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Post by: NoseGoblin
 shasolenzabi wrote: OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I'm pretty sure if it doesn't fund the project won't go ahead, Dreamforge needs the money to make the product they're not in a position to pay for tooling/production by themselves
Yeah and they need more pledges
Yep, that's the crux of it.... Plastic does not work with low backer numbers. I need the team off the bench and in the game. Soooooo many reasons why this may not be getting the traction anticipated.
My core group is not large enough.
No game to back it up.
VAT and Import taxes.
The price is more than some wish to pay.
Its not a no-brainer drop in for GW counts as.
Timing was off, due to conventions.
Timing was off, due to tax season.
The design is not what the customers wanted.
All the above...
I track the visits to my site, and the KS looking for some insight, but google analytics cannot answer the above questions.
How many of those who have saved this KS to get a 48 hour notice will jump in? No idea.... The numbers are there but will they act? Its interesting to watch but admittedly frustrating. I will do what I can.
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Post by: Mousemuffins
Would there be a possibility (assuming this doesn't fund...) of selling the STL file? I'd by that straight away.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
 Mousemuffins wrote:Would there be a possibility (assuming this doesn't fund...) of selling the STL file? I'd by that straight away.
Still mulling it over but its not a likely outcome. If DRM and rights protections were solid and viable, I would have been on that from day one. As it stands, once you release a file its gone, the model cannot be controlled. pulled back or managed in any meaningful way. It gets uploaded to assorted distribution points and the time, effort and IP is in the wind.
I am far more likely to go resin, as the tooling costs are easy on the wallet. The issue with resin is that it does not scale well. 1 kit costs as much as 500 kits on the production side (that is to say that if it costs $15.00 to make, it will stay there, more copies does not improve the outlook) Resin is also easily counterfeit, but it does take a bit more talent to do it right and becomes less of an issue when the kit you are offering is not wildly popular.
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Have you had any retailers like the War Store pledge for the larger retail packages? It looks like you only had one top tier reward package which is still available.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note, it looks like GW will be releasing a grav tank for Primaris soon. Might become a no brains drop in after that product drop.
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Post by: Alpharius
It would have to be a bit bigger though, possibly?
I think someone ITT already did that math...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Into the last 48 hours and its started moving in the right direction again, hopefully we get there Automatically Appended Next Post: Raffle for professionally painted StuG! Posted by Mark Mondragon (Creator) The incredibly talented Mr David Woods has volunteered his time to paint two StuG’s for two lucky winners. The winners will be randomly chosen from those backers who pledged for at least one StuG. Each StuG kit backed during the active Kickstarter will count towards an entry into the raffle. For those of you who don’t know. Mr. David Woods is a very talented and prolific miniatures enthusiast and painter. He painted the Eisenkern APC for the kits box art and I have that kit proudly displayed behind my desk. You can see more of David’s work on his blog page DWARTIST’S PAINTING BLOG  Click to see David's amazing work David does not typically take commissions, so this is a rare opportunity to have a Woods original in your collection! I will be providing the kits and the shipping for the prizes free of charge to the lucky winners. These will not come out of any of the kits that you backed and will be free additional kits. David has agreed to paint the kits up in Panzer Grey like the CAD images from the Kickstarter. He may be open for discussion about alternative colors or cammo patterns, winter, desert, etc. but those requests are at the sole discretion of Mr. Woods. David has volunteered his time for this raffle, because like you, he really wants a StuG! Let’s get this done and get this awesome kit in your collection. At the time of writing this update, we have less than 57 hours left in this campaign! It's time to firm up those pledges and start sharing this final warning with your circle of friends and social media sites you frequent. I need your help on this! Please, take a moment to link to the Kickstarter and let your friends know you are backing… It really does make a difference! Link to use: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dreamforge-games/dreamforge-games-eisenkern-grav-stug Thank you again for your backing and thank you for letting your circle of friends know that you backed this campaign and you want to see it funded. All the best! Mark DreamForge-Games
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Post by: warchild40k
I really hope this funds, these are some of the best plastic kits I have in my collection and I would love to add more!
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Post by: NoseGoblin
 warchild40k wrote:I really hope this funds, these are some of the best plastic kits I have in my collection and I would love to add more!
Me too! Man, this one is a bit of a fight.... Fingers crossed.
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Post by: General Hobbs
11000 to go with 5 hours :( So close.
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Post by: Alpharius
I was hoping you typo'd that and meant to say "1100 to go with 5 hours :( So close."
$11,000 to go with 5 hours to go?
Not really close, unfortunately.
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Post by: insaniak
Sadly, I think this one was just a little too niche to get across the line.
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Post by: General Hobbs
Maybe more time.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Maybe if it doesn't make relaunch with the files as a stretch goal and allow for a whole month?
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Post by: Necros
I think you should relaunch, but also include your currently available products as discounted add-on items, maybe with an army bundle pledge level. Like 3 grav-stugs plus a bunch of troops? And maybe a smaller starter army like 1 stug with less troops. Built the army bundles based on the current imperial guard rules.. I know you want to have your own game some day, but many people will want to use your models for 40k.
I think having more add ons will help get it funded, and you'll be able to clear out some of your older stock that way too.
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Post by: Theophony
 Necros wrote:I think you should relaunch, but also include your currently available products as discounted add-on items, maybe with an army bundle pledge level. Like 3 grav-stugs plus a bunch of troops? And maybe a smaller starter army like 1 stug with less troops. Built the army bundles based on the current imperial guard rules.. I know you want to have your own game some day, but many people will want to use your models for 40k.
I think having more add ons will help get it funded, and you'll be able to clear out some of your older stock that way too.
He can’t do that because he no longer has the molds for the models. He would need to finance all of those as well as the stug and that would raise the cost of funding dramatically.
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Post by: Necros
Oh, I was under the impression there was stock on hand that could be added on. Guess that won't work :/
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Post by: General Hobbs
 Theophony wrote: Necros wrote:I think you should relaunch, but also include your currently available products as discounted add-on items, maybe with an army bundle pledge level. Like 3 grav-stugs plus a bunch of troops? And maybe a smaller starter army like 1 stug with less troops. Built the army bundles based on the current imperial guard rules.. I know you want to have your own game some day, but many people will want to use your models for 40k.
I think having more add ons will help get it funded, and you'll be able to clear out some of your older stock that way too.
He can’t do that because he no longer has the molds for the models. He would need to finance all of those as well as the stug and that would raise the cost of funding dramatically.
What happened to the molds?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Thinking about it Mark maybe a KS for tooling the terrain is a better way to get back in the game. There'd be a lot of demand, it's an easy project to scale up (start with one sprue of terrain, offer more as stretch goals) and it's something everyone can use.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Terrain would be more tempting to me than a grav tank.
As cool as the model is it's not something I've got much use for at the moment despite wanting to see this succeed.
Maybe there could be a lower buy in with just a sprue or two? Just spitballing here really...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
General Hobbs wrote: Theophony wrote: Necros wrote:I think you should relaunch, but also include your currently available products as discounted add-on items, maybe with an army bundle pledge level. Like 3 grav-stugs plus a bunch of troops? And maybe a smaller starter army like 1 stug with less troops. Built the army bundles based on the current imperial guard rules.. I know you want to have your own game some day, but many people will want to use your models for 40k.
I think having more add ons will help get it funded, and you'll be able to clear out some of your older stock that way too.
He can’t do that because he no longer has the molds for the models. He would need to finance all of those as well as the stug and that would raise the cost of funding dramatically.
What happened to the molds?
Based on what he's said about the dreamforged stock in the US not belonging to him alone (WGF has an interest in them too and Mark passes on a proportion money whenever he sells one) i'd suspect the moulds are part (full?) owned by WGF, so to get hold of them he'd have to buy them out which means re-tooling with a new factory would be cheaper (prices on doing tooling seems to be falling)
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Post by: NoseGoblin
Yeah... Unfortunately I do not have access to the tools. For me to pay the final buyout amount originally quoted. it would indeed cost me more than it costs to cut new tools.
I am going to give this kit one more bite at the apple before I send it to resin. I will leverage plastic production and put it to work doing what it does best... Making many exact copies for a reasonable price.
I have no idea it this will entice more backers, it just depends if cost was a limiting factor and Google Analytics is very little help when looking at that question. I can tell you that we had enough eyes on the project but I did not get the conversion rate I needed. Could be the subject matter, the pricing, the timing, hell... just about anything.
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Post by: Theophony
In my opinion I felt the price of the Stug was great, possibly a little low.
I still feel that the main problems are
1. There’s no system or game that these belong to. (Yes they can be proxies, but generally not in a tournament setting)
2. There’s no opposing force or even models that look decent next to them.
My hobby budgets been slaughtered recently, so I can’t contribute this time around. 
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Post by: insaniak
I feel like a turreted version would do better, as that would make it a reasonable stand in for a Predator or Leman Russ.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
RELAUNCH IS UP!
http://kck.st/2Uv6qHE
Why relaunch, what has changed?
By allowing plastic tooling to do what it does best; making perfect copies in large volume I can reduce the cost of each kit with a relatively minor impact to the total funding goal required.
Most of the costs for this campaign are tied up in paying for the tools… Making more copies of the kit is a lesser expense comparatively. Spreading the substantial fixed costs of the tooling over a greater number of kits is a way for me to add value without adding risk to my backers.
I am aware that many of the UE/ UK customers will have to contend with VAT or import taxes and that those fees may be something of an impediment. By reducing the price per kit significantly, I can absorb most or all of those fees within the kit price. Providing my backers with a better value, with an eye to gathering a larger backer base.
Why did I not do this before?
I based my price point on the number of kits I felt could reasonably sell.
In the previous launch, the costs were calculated with a total number of 1200 of kits sold. The estimate of 1200 total kits were driven by my understanding of past campaigns, my known customer base and a survey regarding this kit, sent out last September. Although the 1200 total may have been a reasonable estimate, it drove the price per kit higher than I would have liked.
The last campaign was relatively close~ 998 total kits backed, 83% funded $46,484 dollars raised. Close enough that I felt one more run was warranted, with some adjustments to price to make it more attractive or palatable for those who must look at their tax burden when a kit arrives.
This campaign has been targeted with a total of 1800 kits sold. Lowering the price per kit substantially to drive volume and still fund the campaign in a way that I can deliver with confidence.
I have complete confidence in this kit, its design and the quality I will deliver.
I have complete confidence that these kits are well priced and reflects a true value.
Discounts ranging from 38.2% to 50.9% for non retail backers.
Retailer level packs priced at 56.4% to 67.3% off.
Let's make this happen!
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Post by: DaveC
OK in for 4 this time around to use as stand ins for GCPS/Plague Lancer Battle Tanks - been looking for a suitable grav tank for ages. The cost (including potential taxes) put me off before so I appreciate you revising them down.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'll go for 2, fingers crossed it makes it
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Zombie Stug here I come!
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Post by: Stormonu
Back in for 3 again. I have to confess, I had sworn off KS, but for these tanks I’m willing to try again.
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Post by: ScarletRose
I'm not sure what I'd do with them but I'm in for 2, just because I do want to support you.
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Post by: warchild40k
I'm back for more! Can't pass up some DFG goodness 
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Post by: Flinty
£30 for a tank with shipping is a lot more palatable than the previous £40+. I'm in this time.
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Post by: Ketara
I just can't think of what I'd use it for. Sorry.
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Post by: Theophony
Basing for around Titans . Heretic technology being stomped on.
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Post by: Azazelx
Theophony wrote:In my opinion I felt the price of the Stug was great, possibly a little low.
Maybe for yourself, but it was also way too high for me to be interested in going in for a model with no actual or easily-proxied use. I like Mark/ DFG, but I don't count game companies or KS as a "charity".
I'll take another look this time, but I honestly haven't done a damn thing with anything from the first KS yet (no, I'm not selling any of it), I've mostly sworn off KS, and these days especially I much prefer to make purchases that are readily available without extra unknown shipping costs to be paid at some point in the future for items that will probably be months to years late. The price break needs to be significant to offset any of that kind of bs these days, and it needs to be something I really want rather than something that simply looks like it might be cool to own. So while I wish Mark the best for the project and genuinely hope it funds, the best I can promise is that I'll take a look.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
Azazelx wrote: Theophony wrote:In my opinion I felt the price of the Stug was great, possibly a little low.
Maybe for yourself, but it was also way too high for me to be interested in going in for a model with no actual or easily-proxied use. I like Mark/ DFG, but I don't count game companies or KS as a "charity".
I'll take another look this time, but I honestly haven't done a damn thing with anything from the first KS yet (no, I'm not selling any of it), I've mostly sworn off KS, and these days especially I much prefer to make purchases that are readily available without extra unknown shipping costs to be paid at some point in the future for items that will probably be months to years late. The price break needs to be significant to offset any of that kind of bs these days, and it needs to be something I really want rather than something that simply looks like it might be cool to own. So while I wish Mark the best for the project and genuinely hope it funds, the best I can promise is that I'll take a look.
Thank you for looking... that's all anyone can ask.
This is a pretty clean Kickstarter, one kit, digital terrain files for those that want them... I have been down the road of multi kit offerings, I know where it leads and have no desire to go there again.
I asked for feedback from my backers when the first launch failed. Many wanted a more sexy campaign, stretch goals, etc. I get it... I really do, they want to feel excitement. People love to push for the goals and be entertained its quite natural. And I love hearing what they want... As always, I work in a bubble and KS allows for a lot of perspectives that I otherwise do not hear.
That KS format has some very predicable outcomes and its why you see so much KS hate these days. My last plastics venture was 3 years late... WGF did a fantastic job on delivering quality but I lost a lot of good will and the stress on me and the manufacturer is not worth the return.
I am doing my best to avoid all that with 'KISS' campaigns that are focused on the real reason I am there... to make 'A' kit become reality, to allow it to fund or fail on its own merits.... Not sexy, but there it is.
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Post by: insaniak
Azazelx wrote:Maybe for yourself, but it was also way too high for me to be interested in going in for a model with no actual or easily-proxied use.
That's been my problem as well. I went in for the very original metal versions of the troops just for gaks and giggles, but never bothered with the plastic KS because they were just too out of scale to be useful for anything. The tank is pretty, and I would love to buy a whole bunch of them, but I just don't know what I would do with them. As I said above, if it had a turret, that would be a whole different kettle of stuff. Size-wise, at least, it's much more functional than the DF troops were.
Although... maybe I could just remove the main weapon entirely and turn it into a transport vehicle. Hmm...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
IMO, the 1st KS had too much stuff in it, trying to be all things to all people, but not quite getting the volume for things to really take off.
The follow-on KS is correctly sized, but I'm not sure that there's $60k worth of spend for 2.000 kits.
I really wish I could afford to back more.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, the 1st KS had too much stuff in it, trying to be all things to all people, but not quite getting the volume for things to really take off.
but I'm not sure that there's $60k worth of spend for 2.000 kits.
Neither am I I can guess.. But without testing it I will not know for certain. The kit was designed while I was still with WGF and the tooling costs were not a large consideration. If I came at this today, with a fresh eye, I may take a closer look at proxy use.
There are those who will grab this just because its StuG like, or they only build kits and could care less about the game aspects. There are those who would only pick one up if its a no-brainer drop in, and those who do competitive gaming that would never pick up a proxy regardless.
What does that equate to in actual numbers? I have no real idea... This is one way for me to find out. I love this kit, I have no desire to use it as a sacrificial offering for knowledge, but in some ways that's what I have to do.
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Post by: Azazelx
NoseGoblin wrote:
Thank you for looking... that's all anyone can ask.
This is a pretty clean Kickstarter, one kit, digital terrain files for those that want them... I have been down the road of multi kit offerings, I know where it leads and have no desire to go there again.
I asked for feedback from my backers when the first launch failed. Many wanted a more sexy campaign, stretch goals, etc. I get it... I really do, they want to feel excitement. People love to push for the goals and be entertained its quite natural. And I love hearing what they want... As always, I work in a bubble and KS allows for a lot of perspectives that I otherwise do not hear.
That KS format has some very predicable outcomes and its why you see so much KS hate these days. My last plastics venture was 3 years late... WGF did a fantastic job on delivering quality but I lost a lot of good will and the stress on me and the manufacturer is not worth the return.
I am doing my best to avoid all that with 'KISS' campaigns that are focused on the real reason I am there... to make 'A' kit become reality, to allow it to fund or fail on its own merits.... Not sexy, but there it is.
I'm fine with simple and straightforward. From smaller creators I actually prefer them because scope creep torpedoes them almost every time I see it. Not everything needs to be a "sexy" CMON or Mantic campaign loaded with "fake stretch goals" (remember those arguments?) by any means.
As far as delivery times go, Please don't take it personally, but I expect every KS to deliver late - including this one. I wouldn't expect it to ship this time of CNY because it's happened SO many times with a "no really, ours is different and will be on time" that at a certain point, well, you don't believe it anymore. It's actually that KS campaigns in general have lost that goodwill. I know you're all individuals/individual companies and not an amorphous mass - buuuut... it's a song we've heard so many times before that I only have one reaction to, regardless of who the singer is.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
NoseGoblin wrote:
Thank you for looking... that's all anyone can ask.
This is a pretty clean Kickstarter, one kit, digital terrain files for those that want them... I have been down the road of multi kit offerings, I know where it leads and have no desire to go there again.
I asked for feedback from my backers when the first launch failed. Many wanted a more sexy campaign, stretch goals, etc. I get it... I really do, they want to feel excitement. People love to push for the goals and be entertained its quite natural. And I love hearing what they want... As always, I work in a bubble and KS allows for a lot of perspectives that I otherwise do not hear.
That KS format has some very predicable outcomes and its why you see so much KS hate these days. My last plastics venture was 3 years late... WGF did a fantastic job on delivering quality but I lost a lot of good will and the stress on me and the manufacturer is not worth the return.
I am doing my best to avoid all that with 'KISS' campaigns that are focused on the real reason I am there... to make 'A' kit become reality, to allow it to fund or fail on its own merits.... Not sexy, but there it is.
You lost good will? I've only seen more goodwill for you and Dreamforge. After GW, Dreamforge is the first name that comes up in any discussion of quality plastics. The plastics from the last campaign are amazing, well worth the wait. I know I will enjoy assembling the Stug.
However, I'm a bit surprised you went with the stug and not the shadokesh for your return to KS. I would have thought there would be a lot of demand for a versatile alien kit with your high quality.
My dilemma for this campaign is that I really only want one stug, but at the lower price that would give less support to your campaign. Two is just a bit out of my budget for now, and adding more during the pledge manager won't help you fund.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
When I did that survey back in September, the tank was favored by 20% in the question would you pick up a kit if it were in a Kickstarter.
Having the Eisenkern out and widely distributed and the response from that survey set the decision to go with the StuG first.
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Post by: Irbis
 insaniak wrote:I feel like a turreted version would do better, as that would make it a reasonable stand in for a Predator or Leman Russ.
Would it? There is very little space to put side bolters/lascannons. I feel as it is it's more useful, seeing both SM and IG have lots of turretless designs this can reasonably count as. On SM side alone, you have Vindicator, Sabre Tank Hunter, Laser Destroyer and several others, and that's without removing the gun and putting Whirlwind or Stalker turret on top. None of these have sponson issue and you need just a few parts for the conversion...
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Post by: Siygess
I must admit I would also find more use for this with a turret, but honestly I would settle for a blanking plate on the sprue to cover up where the main gun protrudes from the hull - I'm sure I can source a turret of my own somewhere.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Size-wise, the Grav-StuG is a very close match for a Leman Russ Thunderer / Destroyer, though I wouldn't be surprised if it also matched some of the larger Landspeeder variants.
A turretted Grav-Panzer would be a natural stretch goal, maybe an additional $10-15k? But first, the basic kit needs to fund!
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Post by: dekinrie
I looking at this for K47 units
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Post by: insaniak
 Irbis wrote:Would it? There is very little space to put side bolters/lascannons.
The intakes on the sides could easily have a weapon mounted onto the front of them for simple sponsons. Otherwise, since the actual placement of the weapons on the vehicle is irrelevant in the current rules, they could just go on the turret as coaxial weapons.
Even easier as a Russ stand-in, if they still have the option to not take sponsons (I have to admit I'm not 100% sure on that, as I haven't seen the latest incarnation of the Astra Imperialguardium codex).
On SM side alone, you have Vindicator, Sabre Tank Hunter, Laser Destroyer and several others,...
One of which, some people occasionally use...
A Predator/Leman Russ stand-in is going to have a much wider appeal than a stand-in for a bunch of tanks most people don't even know exist.
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Post by: Theophony
What’s the dimensions of the fliers, storm talon and land speeders? Could work for those.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
My main problem, this time around, is that it is too danged short a run.
I know that a two week run looks sexy on the outside - in reality... for me it means 'No Go' - which is a danged shame.
I was only in for a single model the first time around, and this time I will be in for zero models - because of the two week limit.
Sorry - the model looks great, but you killed it with an arbitrary two week run.
*EDIT* Please don't take this as an attack - the model is wonderful, and your previous models have been stellar - it is purely the fact that you are running such a short campaign that is killing it for me. I just won't have the funds in that time. (And, yes, it may be making me a tad bitter.) I really hope that you pull this off.
The Auld Grump - having family means needing to plan things out ahead of time - short notice plus short campaign... not a good combo.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
I hear you, timing will always be an issue... It was up for 22 days, now another 15 and it was teased as coming to kickstarter since last year.
I know.. that does not help you in the current situation but its been around for a bit and honestly I need to put it to bed one way or another to get to a backlog of work in the queue.
Having said all that, if it funds, shoot me an email on my website. I will be running an additional very small run and I'm sure I can make a few more for late comers or those with timing issues... but, it has to fund first.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
I am afraid that you shot yourself in both feet before starting this race.
It is a gorgeous model - and if I had the money, I would buy two - just so I could crash one of them. Those skid plates just cry out for the model to be digging a ditch across the top of a hill. (This is a compliment - the model looks like it will be fun to build, and I really like those skid plates. Some of my favorite WWII tank images are of the crew surrounding the smoking hulk of a once proud war machine.)
If you had announced a couple of weeks before the relaunch, it might have worked. But the combo... not good.
If you make the goal, I will likely take you up on the offer - and I really hope that you make it.
It was easier with your Leviathans - I could justify one for steampunk....
The Auld Grump
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Post by: NoseGoblin
No worries, the reason for the quick turn around on the relaunch is that I had already spent what I could spend on my marketing budget, I needed to turn this fast enough so that investment was not wasted, so that the eyes on the project were still there.
There are those who have been in a similar situation to yourself... fun money is budgeted and if I wait too long, the interest wains and the freed up cash within peoples budgets gets consumed on more pressing things. KS is mercurial, I have no idea if CMON or Bones 5 will launch while I wait... soooooo It may not have been the right decision but it was the best one, to my eyes, given what I know.
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
 TheAuldGrump wrote:I am afraid that you shot yourself in both feet before starting this race.
It is a gorgeous model - and if I had the money, I would buy two - just so I could crash one of them. Those skid plates just cry out for the model to be digging a ditch across the top of a hill. (This is a compliment - the model looks like it will be fun to build, and I really like those skid plates. Some of my favorite WWII tank images are of the crew surrounding the smoking hulk of a once proud war machine.)
If you had announced a couple of weeks before the relaunch, it might have worked. But the combo... not good.
If you make the goal, I will likely take you up on the offer - and I really hope that you make it.
It was easier with your Leviathans - I could justify one for steampunk....
The Auld Grump
He's been previewing the Grav Stug for what...a year now? And specifically a kickstarter for months. Since late last year. Ran the first campaign and now another 2 weeks.
Just how much of a heads up do you need exactly ?
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Post by: Hanksingle
I so, so want this to fund.
These are the White Scars tanks I've been dreaming of my whole life, and I went in for three. Here's to a successful blitz to the finish!
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
 HisDivineShadow wrote: TheAuldGrump wrote:I am afraid that you shot yourself in both feet before starting this race.
It is a gorgeous model - and if I had the money, I would buy two - just so I could crash one of them. Those skid plates just cry out for the model to be digging a ditch across the top of a hill. (This is a compliment - the model looks like it will be fun to build, and I really like those skid plates. Some of my favorite WWII tank images are of the crew surrounding the smoking hulk of a once proud war machine.)
If you had announced a couple of weeks before the relaunch, it might have worked. But the combo... not good.
If you make the goal, I will likely take you up on the offer - and I really hope that you make it.
It was easier with your Leviathans - I could justify one for steampunk....
The Auld Grump
He's been previewing the Grav Stug for what...a year now? And specifically a kickstarter for months. Since late last year. Ran the first campaign and now another 2 weeks.
Just how much of a heads up do you need exactly ?
More than two weeks, that is for damned sure.
When it failed to fund the first time many people, myself included, then reallocated the funds to other things - things that are not this project.
It was not a matter of 'Oh! I can put the money into this second attempt!' it was - 'Well, I'm out. Too bad this won't fund, I already spent my money elsewhere.'
There probably needed to be about a month between when the previous attempt ended and when this one began - then let it run for two weeks.
I honestly think that this compromise was worse than not attempting at all.
As is... it is crashing and burning, and I am not happy about it, in part because I believe that it was avoidable in this second attempt - if there had been notice.
Now, I see the amount dropping as folks give up on this funding.
Which is a damned shame.
The Auld Grump
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?
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Post by: warboss
You've got some coverage on this week's beasts of war episode. Nice! I'll be watching it tonight.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
BobtheInquisitor wrote:I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?
Yes, but not explicit on the timing. The backer-only update sent out shortly before the end of the first attempt, requesting feedback on whether to relaunch at a lower per-unit price or as a resin kit did say "If this campaign does not fund, I need to be heading that direction as soon as I possibly can."
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Post by: Theophony
 Tannhauser42 wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?
Yes, but not explicit on the timing. The backer-only update sent out shortly before the end of the first attempt, requesting feedback on whether to relaunch at a lower per-unit price or as a resin kit did say "If this campaign does not fund, I need to be heading that direction as soon as I possibly can."
Unfortunately being backer only meant fence sitters and 48hour warning people didn’t get the memo.
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Post by: Gallahad
Even if this doesn't fund, that is still very valuable information for Dreamforge. If the market isn't there, the market isn't there, and that is very valuable to know at this point before the big money is spent. Mark can still create the resin version, so time spent on the files won't be a loss.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Update #2 Apr 27 2019
Seven days left and we are 60% funded
Posted by Mark Mondragon (Creator)
We have reached the half way point in this campaign. I will be posting one last reminder in the last campaigns updates just to make sure we catch any who were not aware that we relaunched. If you were a backer of the prior campaign and you get a message in your inbox that seemed off… That might be why
We had some great coverage by Brueckenkopf and Beasts of War… Hats off to them for the help!
Paolo Parente of DUST, has been a huge help. Posting on his personal page and in his official forum. Thank you, sir… I love your work!
BOLS, TTGN, Tabletop Fix as well as the very talented Mr. David Woods and all of you! Who I have seen posting, forwarding links, re-posting, and promoting the campaign.
Truly, I am humbled by the support you have given. No really, I mean that. Your energy, persistence and willingness to put yourselves out there in your comments, suggestions and actions, keeps me motivated and pressing forward.
THANK YOU!
Hopefully the BoW shout out will bring in some more folk over the next week as they watch the weekender
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Tannhauser42 wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:I also reallocated funds after the first one. Was the second try announced before the first one ended?
Yes, but not explicit on the timing. The backer-only update sent out shortly before the end of the first attempt, requesting feedback on whether to relaunch at a lower per-unit price or as a resin kit did say "If this campaign does not fund, I need to be heading that direction as soon as I possibly can."
I was a backer, and I never saw the notice - whether because it went to the Spam folder or it was never received is anybody's guess.
I have it on Remind Me - and if it looks close I will back at the last minute, if I can.
(Pretty big IF . Not happy with the lack of notice, not even a little bit.)
The Auld Grump
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Post by: catharsix
 Gallahad wrote:Even if this doesn't fund, that is still very valuable information for Dreamforge. If the market isn't there, the market isn't there, and that is very valuable to know at this point before the big money is spent. Mark can still create the resin version, so time spent on the files won't be a loss.
I REALLY hope this doesn't fail, because while I love Mark's designs, I especially love the high quality sprue plastics he's made. I want to/will purchase a plastic tank, but have ZERO interest in resin. ZERO.
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Post by: shasolenzabi
Well, got my pay and pledged again for a pair of the tanks, plus some little rounder out, I also hope that this is not gonna fail either, we just need more folks committing to the kick-starter to get it fueled for launch, Who does not want to have grav STuGs in time for the Holidays?
My suggestion is extended time kick-starter, methinks the time given is too short for some folks' time tables+pay schedules.
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Post by: Mousemuffins
Aww. Booo.
Resin it is....
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Post by: Fenriswulf
I am sad to see that this didn't fund. But I think a few others are right when they say it would have been hard to get this up off the ground when this kit doesn't have any specific equivalent in games that people play where this might be a proxy.
If you were looking to make one which would have a greater amount of appeal, I don't think you can look much further than your leviathans. But this time, scale them to be the size of a GW Knight. The ones you made before were between the size of a Nemesis Dreadknight on the small end and a Cerastus Knight on the large end, with nothing in-between. All the work for these has been done, and the market is there, it's just whether or not you want to give something like that a go. This would give people an alternative to GW's stranglehold on the market for Knights, as well as allowing a lot of conversion material for people to use. Your arms and weapons would likely be greatly appreciated I'd reckon.
Just a thought. Sorry to see this kickstarter fall through, but with your talent and ingenuity, I can see something else rise for sure.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
an interesting comment from Mark about conversion rates
To expand on that a bit. We had 18k individual visitors. People interested enough to click on the project spend some time reading it and decide they were not interested. The conversion rate between those interested enough to come check it out and those willing to back is the problem. 18k viewing, reading but only a bit over 400 backing is not where we needed to be.
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Post by: WWW-STL
not insult,but i use Eisenkern Stormtrooper Heads to made a (primaris) space marines chapter,called "The Sons of Eisenkern",they are defenders of Eisenkern Sector,a extreme tech-advanced imperial province.and those heads fit primaris marine body perfect.
can Mark make some conversion kits for GW Primaris Marines?
this is probably a good way for get funds.
5
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Post by: Azazelx
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:an interesting comment from Mark about conversion rates
To expand on that a bit. We had 18k individual visitors. People interested enough to click on the project spend some time reading it and decide they were not interested. The conversion rate between those interested enough to come check it out and those willing to back is the problem. 18k viewing, reading but only a bit over 400 backing is not where we needed to be.
It ties in with what I and others have said. The DFG miniatures game doesn't (and may never) exist. Therefore, there needs to be a practical use for the models for most of us, rather than "cool model, bro" - especially for those multi-purchases of 2, 3, 4 + models.
We know there's one big dog in the genre, and that's R̶o̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶R̶e̶i̶g̶n̶s̶ Warhammer 40,000, so in order to maximise the number of backers, any kits really do need to have an easy crossover/compatibility - in size or scale/height, and in armament as well.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
As I said before the terrain STL files would be a great project in plastic, they're generic enough to use in any number of games and 40k players are much more open to 3rd party terrain than models.
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Post by: Sunny Side Up
Azazelx wrote:
It ties in with what I and others have said. The DFG miniatures game doesn't (and may never) exist. Therefore, there needs to be a practical use for the models for most of us, rather than "cool model, bro" - especially for those multi-purchases of 2, 3, 4 + models.
We know there's one big dog in the genre, and that's R̶o̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶R̶e̶i̶g̶n̶s̶ Warhammer 40,000, so in order to maximise the number of backers, any kits really do need to have an easy crossover/compatibility - in size or scale/height, and in armament as well.
I disagree. While I think there were difference is scale, design, etc.., I thought it was too close to GW's Repulsor, which will a) have more appeal to people who enjoy the GW aesthetic and b) comes without waiting for a Kickstarter delivery.
I like the DFG designs, but they just aren't GW. Presumably, most people into 40K for the 40k-aesthetic will go for the original kit. Most people playing 40K for that competitive itch will go for the original kit, because the rules/meta might've moved off it, by the time you get a Kickstarter delivery. I don't see what market there is tying yourself to the GW train beyond a few crumbs here and there.
Sure, there are third party stores that sell resin head or weapon upgrades, resin bases, etc.., but I cannot name a "we sell stuff you can use for GW"-company that managed to get a sizeable hard plastic range going (but maybe I am missing the obvious). The more successful up-and-coming "competitors" to GW all went in a completely different direction from GW.
Get off the attempt to ride GW's slipstream and do something more unique that stands on its own.
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Post by: insaniak
Not sure how it's close to a Repulsor... It's too small, doesn't have a turret, and doesn't have any transport capacity. It would be a terrible Repulsor stand-in.
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Post by: kurhanik
I was planning on using it as a Vindicator myself. At least to me it looked "close enough" to be a hover version of one.
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Post by: SickSix
Sad to see it not fund but, I had no use for it.
As has been said, it needs a reason to exist beyond 'thats cool'. If their os no game for it, or to use it in as a proxy then gamers don't have a use for it.
Personally I would like to see some more options for the infantry kits that make them more eaisly proxied in 40k. You know, some 'thermal' and plasma weapons.
And honestly, I think a hover Tiger tank would have far more use to gamers. And would look awesome!
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Post by: Alpharius
insaniak wrote:Not sure how it's close to a Repulsor... It's too small, doesn't have a turret, and doesn't have any transport capacity. It would be a terrible Repulsor stand-in.
Yes, it would have...
Alpharius wrote:Does this excellent tank have dimensions similar to the not-so-excellent Primaris Repulsor?
 Yonan wrote: Alpharius wrote:Does this excellent tank have dimensions similar to the not-so-excellent Primaris Repulsor?
I may have been thinking similarly!
Damn she's a handsome one.
Edit: Google says Repulsor dimensions are "More or less (length-width-height) - 170x110x120(this varies on how the turret was built, but i doubt it could go over 130)"
Rep - STUG
170 - 130
110 - 82
120 - 41
Seems substantially smaller : ( Height is probably parially the flight stand, length with the longer barrel could be about the same, Maybe some sponsons tacked on to widen her out?
Agree with Azazelx above - in the absence of an Official DreamForge game, it really does have to be able to 'count as' something else in order to really draw in the backers.
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Post by: Scrub
 SickSix wrote:Sad to see it not fund but, I had no use for it.
As has been said, it needs a reason to exist beyond 'thats cool'. If their os no game for it, or to use it in as a proxy then gamers don't have a use for it.
And honestly, I think a hover Tiger tank would have far more use to gamers. And would look awesome!
You make a good point but then suggest a Sci-Fi Tiger tank. No good, at least from my point of view.
The issue with Dreamforge's design, from my own perspective, is that if I'd really wanted a hovering Stug then I could select from any number of historical scale, plastic or resin kits... leave off the tracks, sprinkle on some leftover Games Workshop bits and... You get the idea, Space Sturmgechutz! Proposing a hovering Tiger tank would recreate the same problem, as far as I see it.
I greatly admire Dreamforge as the models are second to none but the Grav Stug did nothing for me I'm afraid. Personally speaking, as a starting point, I'd go for a rarer vehicle to take inspiration from. If it must be vintage 1940's German inspired then Panthers, Tigers, Sturmgechutz etc have a lot of readily available scale model and wargaming pieces already. Granted anything I'd suggest can be shot down as achievable by the methods I've applied to the Stug idea but 'Paper Panzers' with a Dreamforge twist might be an interesting starting point?
In any case, my expert* source for all things AFV is 'World of Tanks' which has plenty of designs that never saw it past the drawing board and, more importantly, either don't have scale models or are very rare but look very interesting and might be able to fit the Dreamforge aesthetic. (The Swedish Kranvagn or French AMX 50 for example)
My own starting point would be something more modern https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ebrc.htm as lots of third party model designers who design proxies for Games Workshop seem to like the second world war, I've seen a Tiger shown off on this very forum a while ago!
Anyway best of luck in your endeavours moving fowards Dreamforge!
*Joking!
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
How does everyone think the Shadokesh would sell?
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Post by: insaniak
I think that would depend on the final scale for them. They're cool looking, but as with the Stug, people need to be able to use them for something.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Sad to see this not fund, I am actually surprised it did as well as it did. The infantry kickstarter had 780 backers so I was surprised to see that the latest still managed to get 450 which is an impressive number considering the kit has very little use outside of looking cool.
Personally I would like to see either more human infantry kits or more walkers. Something that can fit well into a game of 40k (or even titanicus) is always going to draw so many more people in.
I was never really a fan of their designs especially after seeing that they would tower over most 32mm models. They might be a good resin project to test the waters but I doubt they would draw a very big following.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
another interesting titbit from the comments for those interested in how much metal mould tooling costs
Mark MondragonCreator
Hi Shaun,
"Perhaps you could clarify something for me. I am still confused as to why , you were able to deliver a multi tiered KS and are unable to do so today???"
Because from a funding standpoint, that campaign was an absolute failure.
It only worked because WGF was not billing me retail pricing for the tools. For them, it was about gaining exposure and additional SKU's for their distribution offerings. It was time and chunks of Aluminum.
If I had to actually pay retail for those tools, as I do now. I would have had to put a 1.2 Million dollar funding goal on that project... IF not more!
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Well that means the chance of getting a Knight sized Leviathan is out of the window then, dammit.
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Post by: cuda1179
 Fenriswulf wrote:Well that means the chance of getting a Knight sized Leviathan is out of the window then, dammit.
Here are some kitbashes I did a while ago. Two knights and a Dreadknight.
1
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Post by: Flinty
Hmm... possibly poor timing that GW have just previewed a WW2 based skimmer/grav tank... I know the tank version has a turret, but it could have given this the lush it needed to get it over the line in plastic.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Yep, was just thinking that myself, dammit.
As to the kitbashes, they're cool but I'd think a properly scaled version of the Leviathan would work a lot better.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Flinty wrote:GW have just previewed a WW2 based skimmer/grav tank..
Link/name?
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Post by: Flinty
Skorpius Dunerider. Transport version is a ww2 landing craft that hovers about and there is a tank alternate.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/775004.page
Not my thing personally, but if it was around a month ago more grav stug sales could potentially have been made in the counts as sector.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Thanks for the reference - it's not good to me, kind of a generic Rhino landing craft thing.
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Post by: JAKH
Sci-fi Jagdpanther using one of your Leviathan HEL cannons. Not my work.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/761655.page#10206998
That whole thread uses a lot of DreamForge models with add-ons from third party bits producers like Anvil and GW.
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Post by: WWW-STL
I hope Mark can make some conversion kits for GW Primaris Marines.this way would be less cost and get funds.
just like i posted before（that chapter called Sons of Eisenkern）,Eisenkern Infantry Head fit in Primaris Marines very well.
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Post by: OldMate
Will you be restocking whatever's not in stock when you finish the stug?
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Post by: Siygess
Dang it, I was thinking of converting a few Bauhaus models with Dreamforge Stormtrooper parts and I realised that the accessories pack I have had kicking around forever doesn't actually have torsos or legs. Doh!
Does anybody know of any UK stockists who still have a box or two of the Stormtroopers?
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Post by: SickSix
Yeah a Eisenkern like Parma OOP? I seriously need 30 more...
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Post by: WWW-STL
There are fewer and fewer items on the official website of DFG.
I wonder why Mark doesn't make some conversion kits for the warhammer (especially the PSM). If he lacks funds, making conversion kits would be a source of profit.
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Post by: Theophony
WWW-STL wrote:There are fewer and fewer items on the official website of DFG.
I wonder why Mark doesn't make some conversion kits for the warhammer (especially the PSM). If he lacks funds, making conversion kits would be a source of profit.
He doesn’t want to be one of those guys . He already had one run in with GW and doesn’t want to risk another.
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Post by: Llamahead
Different scale might help 28mmers are generally hard linked to a manufacturer and game but te smaller scales are more open to variety.
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Post by: dwartist
hope you don't mind me posting this here...Eisenkern and transport for sale https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143361463258
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Post by: Gitkikka
I suppose it had to happen, but Dreamforge is having a closeout sale from today to December 5th. The big Leviathans are going for $25 USD (yes, I got a couple more )
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Post by: ScarletRose
A Sad day, but I did manage to get a leviathan with several arms for less than the mech itself.
That shipping though, ouch.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
That's sad, be with discounts that deep they're an attractive price for the UK too even with shipping & Vat
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Post by: Necros
Well, my Crusader is about to have a Mortis to play with.
Hopefully this sale will lead to a lot of cash that they can use to revitalize the line and make more cool new stuff.
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Post by: warboss
No apcs unfortunately. That I would have bought at those rock bottom prices.
The flugstug didn't fund a few months back, right? Is that officially dead in the water then?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Yeah here's the details:
MASSIVE WAREHOUSE SALE!
We are closing our warehouse and liquidating or stock of all plastic kits, to enable our move to resin kits in the new year.
EVERYTHING MUST GO!
All stock is limited to what is on hand, if you cannot add it to the cart, it is OOP and unavailable.
*Customers are responsible for any VAT or import taxes.
Please allow four to five days before shipping, most items are sent USPS priority mail. The sales often cause backlogs in shipping... We will work as fast as we can to get your orders out. Thank you!
FAQ:
We do not sell parts from kits.
We cannot mark items as 'gift'.
Shipping costs are determined by the items in your cart and your shipping address.
Items that are on the website are in stock.
From Facebook
Just a heads up... I am closing the warehouse and liquidating the remaining plastic kits to prep for the relaunch of resin in the new year..... If you have a need for anything that is still in stock, the prices are great and not having anything to move to a storage container would be awesome!
https://dreamforge-games.com/
Tragic but probably inevitable. I still have a small hill of unopened stuff that looked great but could never rise to the top of my queue.
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Post by: insaniak
I very nearly pulled the trigger on the Leviathans that I've been meaning to buy for years now, but those shipping costs!
Probably just as well, since it would likely be another decade or so before I got around to putting them together anyway.
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Post by: cuda1179
I pulled the trigger on a bunch of heavy weapon squads and a smaller scale leviathan. Admech conversions in the future.
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Post by: ValentineGames
Dreamforge is still a thing? Not heard anything about them in years!
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Post by: bubber
put $108 of goods into cart. shipping = $110 :O
i'll just have to miss out :(
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Post by: insaniak
 bubber wrote:put $108 of goods into cart. shipping = $110 :O
i'll just have to miss out :(
To be fair, the cost of the goods has no real bearing on the cost of shipping them. $110 shipping is excessive for a couple of plastic kits, but it would cost the same $110 whether the kits were full price or marked down to a dollar.
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Post by: Elbows
Keep in mind, if I ship the tiniest package to the UK from the US...I think it still costs me at minimum, $14-15. Shipping a 1 lb. or heavier item it cost me $24 to ship a test product to the UK last year. Shipping internationally from the US we basically have zero subsidization and foreign countries don't pick up our tab like the USPS does for foreign countries who ship to us. By comparison other countries often have subsidized shipping, and when their product reaches our country...we pick up the tab and deliver it for them. Not so much the other way around.
Basically we pay the full cost of actually shipping things, unless we're a big business with a big account with UPS or something like that.
I'm not defending shipping costs, but just letting people abroad know we have to fork over a ton to ship stuff to you guys.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Surprised the plastics lasted this long honestly, they were incredible models and I made an entire army out of them but there was very little attempt to keep steaming ahead and release anything new for years be it in plastic or resin.
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Post by: Azreal13
Keep in mind, if I ship the tiniest package to the UK from the US...I think it still costs me at minimum, $14-15.
This.
I've literally received a parcel sent from NJ this morning that cost me $15 to ship and that was a single 30mm scale model. It only worked out because it was on clearance, meaning it effectively cost me UK RRP, but it was the last model I needed to round out a faction, OOP, and I'd not been able to find one closer to home.
Normally though, I totally discount buying from the US, as shipping nearly always kills it, and then if it gets picked up for taxes then that dismembers it, and puts the pieces in a blender.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
I am using a mail forwarding company, so hopefully it will be cheaper to send to me here in Australia.
Ordered 1 Leviathan Crusader and 2 Leviathan Mortis, and 3 power packs. The Crusader will be turned into a stand-in for an Acastus Knight Porphyrion, and the two Mortis will join the other one I own to become a set of 3 Cerastus Knights.
I thought I was getting a bargain last time, but this is pretty darn awesome I have to say. Sad to see this be the last of Dreamforges' plastic kits though, they were absolutely fantastic.
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Post by: ekwatts
I've ordered guitars from the US that cost less than half that shipping. It's not that it's particularly high for what it is (USPS priority), it's that there are no cheaper, barebones (and obviously riskier) options.
I get the restriction. But it means I won't be bothering either. If the price is bumped effectively almost back up to what you'd pay at full price via the restrictive shipping options, then what's the point?
(And this is not a crack at Dreamforge. I get it. But what looks good prior to shipping ends up not being worth it. I'll just buy some GW Knights at that price)
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Post by: alphaecho
 Azreal13 wrote:Keep in mind, if I ship the tiniest package to the UK from the US...I think it still costs me at minimum, $14-15.
This.
I've literally received a parcel sent from NJ this morning that cost me $15 to ship and that was a single 30mm scale model. It only worked out because it was on clearance, meaning it effectively cost me UK RRP, but it was the last model I needed to round out a faction, OOP, and I'd not been able to find one closer to home.
Normally though, I totally discount buying from the US, as shipping nearly always kills it, and then if it gets picked up for taxes then that dismembers it, and puts the pieces in a blender.
The Royal Mail service charge of £10 or so if you had to pay import duties at their centre was the cream on the top of the slicing, dicing and general blendering.
That's the reason I was glad the Bones Sledgehammer battery that I picked up was UK friendly for postage/ duties.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Yeah, I can't lie, you guys are likely being screwed over even more for your shipping costs for these.
I just looked on Forgeworld and it seems there is 2 Acastus models, and 4 Cerastus ones. I might need to get two more, plus a Nova Cannon. Considering how much I'd have to pay for Forgeworld versions that these will stand in for, I think this is a steal.
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Post by: Stormonu
Sorry you guys are getting hit so hard on the shipping, the leviathan kits are really, really good.
Picked up the Leviathan arms I didn't have. Would have picked up a couple more Leviathans as well, but I don't even get to field the one I do own.
I'll also say some of the other kits make some good stand-ins; the 15mm Leviathan makes an excellent dreadknight or possibly Primaris dreadnought/Invictus and the 54mm Valkir Trooper can make a passable Guilliman or other primarch.
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Post by: tumblebomb
Damn, For the sale price I would have picked one up and my wife would have thought it was a great bargain... but postage going to be 3 times the purchase price I can't justify it. Probably a much bigger issue tho but it must suck for people trying to do business.
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Post by: Krinsath
Yeah, it's worth remembering that Mark isn't a huge company with shipping contracts to get huge discounts nor does he have the volume of sales to subsidize the shipping into the cost as companies often do (especially those with retail channels). So yeah, near-retail on international shipping is eye-wateringly painful.
On the flip side, the Leviathan is an excellent kit. If I didn't already own five....
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Post by: bubber
I went back and reduced my basket to 1x mortis, 2x guns & the large scale figure (total less than $50) & the shipping was still $75 :(
I understand that this isn't down to you but US shipping companies. Still makes me sad.
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Post by: NoseGoblin
Shipping anywhere outside the US is STUPID expensive.
We used to subsidize shipping with tax dollars but that all changed, then two major price hikes due to 'fuel' costs (which never went down again after gas prices went down) and we end up with a horrid situation here in the US for small businesses.
Leviathans are big and heavy….. a single Leviathan qualifies for an oversized package because its more than 13” x 9” x 9” not including the shipping box. I remember when shipping to the UK was around $12.00, when I first released those kits…now, closer to $50.00+
Nothing I can do, at these discounts the is no where to soak up shipping costs in the margin.
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Post by: tumblebomb
@NoseGoblin - I sure hope you've got plans for future/not p lanning to stop completely. License your designs to someone else possibly?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I wonder if occasional Kickstarter/made to order things might work?
There already seems some pent up demand for the APCs, maybe if there was a 2 week order window you could get enough to justify a run.
Drop ship from China in generic packaging and Bob's your Uncle.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Yeah, if you were able to hook up postage from within countries after delivery from China that would be great. Aetherworks here in Australia does the forwarding for KS items from CMON and Reaper. Beats having it delivered over to the US, and then back out again when it could have a much more streamlined route from China.
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Post by: Ketara
The question is whether clubbing together and redistributing from a central point here in Europe would be cheaper....I ran the dreamforge website up to its maximum postage the other night, and it came to around 10 Leviathans plus a metric gak ton of arms for $279. So around $25-$30 for postage.
Thinking it through, that's about twenty quid plus another fiver for domestic postage per Leviathan and a couple of arms (exact figures will vary slightly). That certainly makes it more affordable.
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Post by: Grundz
 insaniak wrote: bubber wrote:put $108 of goods into cart. shipping = $110 :O
i'll just have to miss out :(
To be fair, the cost of the goods has no real bearing on the cost of shipping them. $110 shipping is excessive for a couple of plastic kits, but it would cost the same $110 whether the kits were full price or marked down to a dollar.
Dreamforge leviathan boxes are gargantuan too
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Post by: Irdiumstern
Thankfully I'll be in the US in the near future, so I grabbed one and 3 of the lil ones.
Sadly there didn't seem to be arm options for the lil ones but I'll just have to convert something.
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Post by: ekwatts
What would the expected customs charge to the UK end up being for one of these beasts and a few weapon arms? Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, no paypal available at checkout. I really am out, then!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
20% of your total spend (yes inc shipping) + £8 on purchases over £39 and up to £135
over £135 you'd have customs duty to pay too, but what that might be I've no real idea as it would depend on what product category they thought it fitted into
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Post by: SickSix
I need 3 squads of Plastic Eisenkern...
Going to miss these plastic kits.
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Post by: cuda1179
SickSix wrote:I need 3 squads of Plastic Eisenkern...
Going to miss these plastic kits.
I wish I would have gotten more when they were available. I planned on making them my Ad Mech troops, as the GW figures just don't do it for me in that area.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
Well, I bought as much as I could afford. Vic and Dreamforge split my Black Friday budget. Two leviathans plus extras and some potential IG bits.
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Post by: Hasdrubal
Apologies for the necro-thread, I figure posting here is my best chance of finding what I need...
I'm finally assembling my 15 mm Leviathans from the 2013 Kickstarter (yes, it's been a while), great kits! I realize I am mising a couple of weapon options, namely the Grendel/Beowulf siege gun and the HEL canon. Anyone having them in stock and wiling to part with them? I have 3 boxes of Heavy Support Valkit troopers (28 mm) that need a new home.
Thanks for reading!
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Post by: Malika2
How big are the 15mm Leviathans next to lets say an Adeptus Titanicus model?
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Post by: RiTides
Malika, that's a great question. Unfortunately it seems DreamForge got really unlucky with their sizes, my feeling is that it would just be too big for Titanicus.
Hasdrubal, you're right that this is probably the biggest concentration of folks who might be able to help you out (if anyone does want to work something out, just please do it via PM).
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Post by: Fenriswulf
The 15mm one is a bit bigger than a Nemesis Dreadknight.
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Post by: Malika2
And how big is that model compared to a Titanicus scaled Titan?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
 Malika2 wrote:And how big is that model compared to a Titanicus scaled Titan?
Drop a cathedral on its back for an Imperiator?
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Post by: Hasdrubal
Malika2 wrote:How big are the 15mm Leviathans next to lets say an Adeptus Titanicus model?
I'm almost done building a Leviathan Crusder, a Warlord is next. Will post a comparison picture in about 2 weeks.
My observations so far
- based on published data: Reaver (4" tall with Apocalypse Missile Launcher) < Leviathan (4.5" tall with no carapace weappon) < Warlord (5.5" tall with Apocalypse Missile Launcher); my hunch is that the Leviathan 15 mm height is similar to the top of the carapace of the Warlord (excluding the void shield structure and carapace weapon)
- the 15 mm Leviathan weapon I've buillt (Vulkan canon and Nova canon) are a good match for Warlord-class weapons (overall dimensions and bulk are comparable). I believe the Vulkan canon would be a great Macro-Blaster stand-in
- I'm more concerned about the overall depth of the Leviathan compared to GW's models; from my estimates the 15mm Leviathan would be significantly shallower than either a Reaver or Warlord.
I have 2 Mortis and 2 Crusaders, I'm considering painting them as a 3-Warlord maniple of titans.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Here ya go Malika, honestly it does't really fit in Titanicus scale as it is a bit bulky and the design differs too much from everything else. The guns are certainly too big as you can see. Might be good if you wanted to make an army entirely out of different models though? In any case it is pretty much the same height as a warlord if that's what you wanted to proxy it as..
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Looks like it would work with some of Vanguard’s 6mm or 3mm terrain bits across its back and a weapon swap.
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Post by: Theophony
AS for being to bulky you could leave off some of the armor plates to lighten it up.
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Post by: cuda1179
It's times like this that I'm sad I only got one of the old-school resin 15mm Leviathans (they were about 10% larger than the plastic ones) . The one I got makes a GREAT Imperial Knight in 40k games. If you can snag a torso from a 40k Lord of Skulls you can convert a pretty good Chaos knight.
1
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Post by: Commander Cain
Theophony wrote:AS for being to bulky you could leave off some of the armor plates to lighten it up.
Oh yeah good point, that would definitely help slim the arms and legs down by quite a bit!
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Post by: Vaktathi
Interesting to see this pop up again, when everything went on sale back in Nov, I picked up a full sized Mortis and Crusader along with enough weapons to equip both with pretty much every possible Knight codex weapon option (including some doubles), and even with shipping being the single most expensive item, it all came out to the same price as a single GW plastic knight kit at MSRP.
I just finished building the Mortis last night (many months later) after finally having time being stuck at home for weeks. I have to say, after actually building one of these, I'm floored by the engineering and thought that went into this kit. While the detail is hardly the most exquisite, being a big stompy robot that works (being mostly armor plate), while the posabilty of the kit is pretty astounding (individual fingers on the powerfist for example) without making it insane to assemble or paint. I'd seen these around before, but hadn't actually handled one, and after building it I'm just really impressed at the whole product package Dreamforge delivered.
Hoping Dreamforge manages to return one day.
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Post by: DarkSoldier
 cuda1179 wrote:It's times like this that I'm sad I only got one of the old-school resin 15mm Leviathans (they were about 10% larger than the plastic ones) . The one I got makes a GREAT Imperial Knight in 40k games. If you can snag a torso from a 40k Lord of Skulls you can convert a pretty good Chaos knight.
As soon as I saw those kitbashed Knights, I laughed. They look like goofy, top-heavy, leg-day-skipping goons.
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Post by: cuda1179
DarkSoldier wrote: cuda1179 wrote:It's times like this that I'm sad I only got one of the old-school resin 15mm Leviathans (they were about 10% larger than the plastic ones) . The one I got makes a GREAT Imperial Knight in 40k games. If you can snag a torso from a 40k Lord of Skulls you can convert a pretty good Chaos knight.
As soon as I saw those kitbashed Knights, I laughed. They look like goofy, top-heavy, leg-day-skipping goons.
Yeah, I kind of did that on purpose. I was going for a Robocop 2/ gorilla feel for them.
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Post by: Stormonu
I kinda wish I'd picked up about 2 more of the 15mm versions, as they make excellent replacements for the baby-carrier Dreadknight.
As for the 28mm model, several people have mentioned they make good Cerastus-sized knights. Though if mine ever hits the table, I'm thinking of using it as a counts-as Reaver. With the recent sale, I did manage to pick up all the weapon options. As lovely as the model is, and as cheap as it got during the sale I can't imagine I'd ever use more than one on a table unless I wanted to run a 28mm battletech game for some reason.
Also, I have two of the 54 mm eisenkern trooper models, and have been considering using it as a primarch model - anyone got homebrew 8E stats for Lion El'Johnson?
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Post by: Hasdrubal
 Vaktathi wrote:I have to say, after actually building one of these, I'm floored by the engineering and thought that went into this kit. While the detail is hardly the most exquisite, being a big stompy robot that works (being mostly armor plate), while the posabilty of the kit is pretty astounding (individual fingers on the powerfist for example) without making it insane to assemble or paint.
That's what I like with these models: they have a military modelling feel instead of the uber-gothic-lets-put-skulls-everywhere of many GW kits.
They also provide a great canvas for weathering techniques and airbrushing with all those nice flat and curved areas.
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