Guerrilla Miniature Games reviews all three books (core codex, White Scars, Ultramarines). All secrets revealed!
Spoiler:
edit: White Scars specific preview with new info on doctrines, strategems, wargear, etc.
Spoiler:
The Assault Doctrine already improves the Armour Penetration of Pistols and melee weapons by 1, and when it’s combined with this +1 Damage, you’ll absolutely annihilate even the most durable enemy units.
Khaaaaaaaaaan!
edit: Ultramarine specific preview with new info on doctrines, strategems, characters, units, wargear, etc.
edit: By your command! New incursor unit that denies enemy cover and gets no penalties on ranged shooting while dual wielding like a D&D ranger!
Spoiler:
Impulsor Transport: Flying razorback with a baby void shield! Truly Cawl is blessed by the Machine God!
Alien Power-LoaderInvictor Tactical Warsuit: The most wild west rootinest, tootinest, shootinest redemptor dreadnought 41k will ever see!
You feelin' lucky, you xenos punk? Well, are ya!?!
Infiltrator Squad
Eliminator Squad
Other codex chapters like SW, DA, BA Chapters will also have access to the new units from Codex: Space Marines as follows:
Captain in Phobos Armour
Librarian in Phobos Armour
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour
Eliminator Squad
Incursor Squad
Infiltrator Squad
Suppressor Squad
Invictor Tactical Warsuit
Impulsor
Primaris Repulsor Executioner
The full datasheets and matched play points values for each of these units will soon be available as a free PDF download for each of these Chapters, along with the rules for the Shock Assault ability.
Angels of Death: Combat Doctrines
Combat Doctrines represent the structured way in which adherents of the Codex Astartes overcome any adversary. Veterans of previous editions may remember that the Ultramarines had a form of this ability a number of years back. Now, it doesn’t just apply to them, but to all of the Chapters (and any succes[img]sor Chapters you’ve created) that use the rules from Codex: Space Marines. Here’s how it works…
Only primaris shown in the animated trailer but no idea if it'll be Adeptus Restartes only.
Edit: From the new warhammer community page apoc entry... More primarisized characters (Tigurius and Khan) previewed below. Full plastic kit versions of the primariscouts along with a Restartes GravRhino.
edit: From the pre-order page. Mega collectors edition codex and White Scars and Ultramarines subcodex books along with widgets (dice, cards, upgrade packs with decals, etc).
Melissia wrote: If it's the Primaris Marines only, it'll be a small book.
Considering how beefy the current codex is compared with others, I think it'll be fine once they add in the stuff already released for Primaris since the last codex plus what has been hinted at plus what they haven't even mentioned in all likelihood. YMMV.
I love that light dread - it so very 80s after the Aliens film - dar it someone will HAVE to convert it fighting a massive Tervigon or Hive Tyrant in close combat!
Also that big physchic awakening - Endless Spell models for 40K
Giving all Space Marines (Loyalist and Chaos alike) plus one attack on a turn they charge, get charged, or intervene is surprising. Nice to see them actually trying to make Marines better at close combat. Khorne Berzerkers get even nuttier if you can ever actually deliver them to the enemy to do their thing.
Near the end of the SM codex stuff, they talk about creating custom successor chapters with custom abilities from the lists contained. Sounds neat, wonder if it will be for MP or only Open/Narrative.
Carnikang wrote: The Dreadnaught is actually a suit meant to go along with the light armor marines, figured it might.
A White Scars Character? Thats new.
So squatting of Khan on his bike all but confirmed.
We really didn't need individual codices for each frickin Chapter, and this is bloat going in the same exact direction as 7th. However, with that said, a Chapter creator + better handling of Successors is most welcome to me.
Great stuff overall! Custom chapter traits has been wanted since 4th ed, and it looks like this book structure will be a better way to organize chapter books than each having a full codex.
Shock Assault may get SM melee back out there, but I doubt it'll be enough as they still have massive defensive efficiency problems. But it looks like the chapter traits are getting overhauled by this new system. If there's anything defensive in there, it could do the job. Interested to see if Dreadnoughts will get it.
I'm not crazy about the new walker suit because it seems like its either gonna Usurp the role of dreadnoughts or landspeeders, depending on how its statted. But I'm open to the idea.
Also a new event the "psychic awakening" is coming. What do you guys think it might be ?
all humans develop a degree of psychic powers, cue lots and lots of demonic incursions across the imperium with the normal control methods (killing/black ship removals etc) no longer viable
Also a new event the "psychic awakening" is coming. What do you guys think it might be ?
Thanks for the link. I checked out the page before starting the thread as the video referenced warcom generically at the end but didn't see it. Not sure about the campaign but I'm a bit surprised to see a full on return to 3rd edition's core plus splat style codex releases for marines.
Notice how the (bound to be broken) 'pick your own' Chapter Tactics says pick 2? Looks like the SMCTs might be getting a lot better. Which is good seeing as it's supposed to be the SM thing in the first place.
With the stuff that has been announced so far, I'm rather pumped for all of the Primaris Vanguard units. Only question is do I want to paint them up as a Space Wolves Scout Pack or as a Raven Guard drop force...
Carnikang wrote: The Dreadnaught is actually a suit meant to go along with the light armor marines, figured it might.
A White Scars Character? Thats new.
Probably primarisized old character as the other pic is even labeled in the file name as Tigurius. My guess is Kor'sorro Khan but I don't recall if he came with a bird as wargear in old editions let alone the current one.
edit: Yup, it's confirmed to be Kor'sorro Khan in the text.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also with all the datasheets being available to all Chapters as it suggests, that means you Dark Angels players can finally enjoy 4++ Centurions.
I guess DAs/BAs/SWs will become supplements like in 3rd edition. That's fine as long as we don't get the situation from 4th where SW still only had that 3rd ed. Supplement and didn't get the goodies from the new SM dex.
I guess I was t the only one to want/ suggest for complete custom chapter tactics for lesser known successors/ home made chapters.
Very excited for this!
Wish Tig and Khan were a bit more blingy, but still cool.
WhiteDog wrote: Also a new event the "psychic awakening" is coming. What do you guys think it might be ?
It looks like an Imperial I symbol with a stylized eyeball in it. Isn't that the Astra Telepathica symbol? So maybe a Sisters of Silence + Astra Telepathica release?
Probably also something about how humans slowing becoming a psychic race is progressing more rapidly and so now we all have to buy Endless Spells.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Also with all the datasheets being available to all Chapters as it suggests, that means you Dark Angels players can finally enjoy 4++ Centurions.
I guess DAs/BAs/SWs will become supplements like in 3rd edition. That's fine as long as we don't get the situation from 4th where SW still only had that 3rd ed. Supplement and didn't get the goodies from the new SM dex.
In this photo there are 6 codexes
So I think DA/BAs/SWs might still have their own codexes and not a simple codex "supplement". (6 supplements + DA/BA/SW makes 9 which is the number of loyalist legion).
WhiteDog wrote: In this photo there are 6 codexes So I think DA/BAs/SWs might still have their own codexes.
And one of those is White Scars. I'm presuming it will be the First Foundings from the SM book, since it seems to be bringing a character with each.
We've seen Tigurius(Ultramarines) and Khan(White Scars) and we know there's an Iron Hands guy on the way(Iron Hands book). That would leave Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, and Salamanders.
Carnikang wrote: Hoping one of those Supplements is Black Templars.
I would guess it will be Imperial Fists + successors (including BT).
Six supplements are probably going to be Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard. They'll probably have rules for famous successor chapters in their respective primogenitor legion's codex.
I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
From the wording of the preview:
To suggest that an Imperial Fist and a White Scar fight in the same way is nearly heresy – and the new codex and codex supplements really lean into the distinct identities of each Chapter to ensure they work on the tabletop the way they do in the lore. Codex: Space Marines has everything you need to play with an army of gene-enhanced super-soldiers, and each of the supplements offers you additional, Chapter-specific datasheets and thematic rules that emphasise their unique heritage and the genetic legacy of their Primarch.
I'm guessing they plan on doing the First Founding Chapters as the supplements then BA, DA, SW will get their own codices which tell you that you replace keyword <Chapter> with their keyword.
I assume that while GW already has a number of Codex Supplements in mind (which may or may not be indicated by the pic) there's potentially any number of supplements they could add. Maybe we'll see one for the Emperor's Spears
WhiteDog wrote: Also a new event the "psychic awakening" is coming. What do you guys think it might be ?
It looks like an Imperial I symbol with a stylized eyeball in it. Isn't that the Astra Telepathica symbol? So maybe a Sisters of Silence + Astra Telepathica release?
Probably also something about how humans slowing becoming a psychic race is progressing more rapidly and so now we all have to buy Endless Spells.
I'm thinking that as Endless Spells did so well for AoS and that its production GW can shift to China we'll see 40K copy the mechanic over. Much like faction terrain has become a thing for 40K and AoS. I can well see different factions getting different spells whilst forces like Tau would get something like a "summon drones" ability etc... What will be interesting is if things like the demon faction Endless Spells carry over to 40K like the models do. Imagine having flaming heads spewing hook whips charging across in 40K!
Didn't expect a new Khan model. Makes me wonder things about the Chapter Tactic.
Sounds like good news for successors, what with the custom tactics. Of all things, I'm really eager to see those.
The grav-rhino and not-a-dread look.... ok (I actually like the articulation on the dread for once), but I'm really not sold on all the stubber barrels. What is it with the downgrade to stubber-based weapons on primaris vehicles?
Real kits for Shadowspear stuff was expected, if not incredibly exciting. While the snipers get their fusils, I'm not clear if the infiltrators get any new things beyond the bobblehead.
The 'retracted' supplements (is this a UK thing? 'Redacted' is normal in my world). Eh. Never sold on spamming rulebooks this way- I wonder how long it will take to get them out, and if they'll be more than a page or two of rules plus assorted datasheets of special snowflake weirdness.
Shock Assault is a surprise buff to a lot of units, curious to see how this affects points in the new book and for DG,TS and those other chaos guys.
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New kill team looks fine, but will depend on the price point. Half a box of Reivers with the SW sprue and a box of Tau are far less interesting than the terrain.
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Psychic awakening.... it depends what it is.
If its a world-wide event, I honestly don't care at all.
If its a 'magic' supplement, I don't really care. (and I worry it will be this, for 'impacting every faction')
If its Rogue Psyker led armies or Enslavers/other warp entities ("ancient darkness rises"), I could be quite excited indeed.
Wtf is going on with some of these marine models. That dread is really silly. I think after 20+ years of collecting marines im done with the range. I've never been a primaris basher but some of these are corny af. Also tired of the annoying money grabs with these books.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
Im going to laugh when is like White Scars, Fists, Salamanders and DA, BA, SW players flip.
gainsay wrote: Wtf is going on with some of these marine models. That dread is really silly. I think after 20+ years of collecting marines im done with the range. I've never been a primaris basher but some of these are corny af. Also tired of the annoying money grabs with these books.
The new Dread is clearly someone watching Aliens with the loader VS alien queen scene and then adding some ranged guns to it
Granted that's about 20-30 years late but better late than never - and it can now fight a tervigon! A Tryanid Queen (well closest we'll get unless GW throws us a Norn Queen)
Overread wrote: I'm thinking that as Endless Spells did so well for AoS and that its production GW can shift to China we'll see 40K copy the mechanic over. Much like faction terrain has become a thing for 40K and AoS. I can well see different factions getting different spells whilst forces like Tau would get something like a "summon drones" ability etc... What will be interesting is if things like the demon faction Endless Spells carry over to 40K like the models do. Imagine having flaming heads spewing hook whips charging across in 40K!
I like Endless Spells in AoS, but in 40k something about them doesn't sit right for me outside of maybe games set in the Cicatrix Maledictum.
Certain battlefield effects like a vortex for a tear into the warp or a poison gas cloud might be cool, but those aren't rally speels.
I guess I keep thinking about a direct port of them from AoS to 40k, but GW might implement them in a different way that I will find really cool. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Zuri Prime wrote: Not too excited about the supplements, looks like a needless cash grab.
Not going to lap this one up like some other are, GW is returning to its greedy roots.
They literally said no more managing tuns of books at the launch of 8th. Now its just as bad as 7th. Idk why players are so loyal to such a terrible game system.
gainsay wrote: Wtf is going on with some of these marine models. That dread is really silly. I think after 20+ years of collecting marines im done with the range. I've never been a primaris basher but some of these are corny af. Also tired of the annoying money grabs with these books.
The new Dread is clearly someone watching Aliens with the loader VS alien queen scene and then adding some ranged guns to it
Granted that's about 20-30 years late but better late than never - and it can now fight a tervigon! A Tryanid Queen (well closest we'll get unless GW throws us a Norn Queen)
The question is, can the Impulsor carry troops - is it a Primaris Razorback, or a light Predator? No side doors, but given the rear engine spacing there might be a rear ramp. If it's just a flying Predator-lite I hope it gets better than 3 heavy stubbers and 2 heavy bolters.
Zuri Prime wrote: Not too excited about the supplements, looks like a needless cash grab.
Not going to lap this one up like some other are, GW is returning to its greedy roots.
They literally said no more managing tuns of books at the launch of 8th. Now its just as bad as 7th. Idk why players are so loyal to such a terrible game system.
Because:
1) GW continues to make top end models
2) The Lore is one of the richest and deepest of any of the other wargames. Heck you can spend a fortune and spend years reading codex, rule books, battletomes and novels from BL.
3) The artwork inspires peoples imaginations
4) GW is big and popular - big thing this - so you can collect for the two main games and pretty much travel anywhere and if there's a game club that plays miniature wargames they will likely play 40K and AoS (bit weaker on AoS but its growing super fast)
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
Im going to laugh when is like White Scars, Fists, Salamanders and DA, BA, SW players flip.
Not sure what you mean. It _is_ going to be Scars, Iron Hands, Fists, Ravens and Sallies. The Scars supplement is in the article, and the IH Forge Father (or whatever) has been lurking around for months.
I'd expect the Fists one to come alongside the upgrade sprue that was stashed in the Xmas box, and probably a Primarized Lysander or someone.
The angels and wolves have their own respective codex for their wacky stuff, and can refer to the new book for all the datasheets. So they're effectively 'supplements' already.
John Prins wrote: The question is, can the Impulsor carry troops - is it a Primaris Razorback, or a light Predator? No side doors, but given the rear engine spacing there might be a rear ramp. If it's just a flying Predator-lite I hope it gets better than 3 heavy stubbers and 2 heavy bolters.
Well, that’ll be the Impulsor. We know that you’ve been after a dedicated transport for your Primaris Space Marines, and this is the answer!
John Prins wrote: The question is, can the Impulsor carry troops - is it a Primaris Razorback, or a light Predator? No side doors, but given the rear engine spacing there might be a rear ramp. If it's just a flying Predator-lite I hope it gets better than 3 heavy stubbers and 2 heavy bolters.
"Well, that’ll be the Impulsor. We know that you’ve been after a dedicated transport for your Primaris Space Marines, and this is the answer! We’ll have more on these units over the coming weeks, so stay tuned."
John Prins wrote: The question is, can the Impulsor carry troops - is it a Primaris Razorback, or a light Predator? No side doors, but given the rear engine spacing there might be a rear ramp. If it's just a flying Predator-lite I hope it gets better than 3 heavy stubbers and 2 heavy bolters.
Article wrote:Well, that’ll be the Impulsor. We know that you’ve been after a dedicated transport for your Primaris Space Marines, and this is the answer!
John Prins wrote: The question is, can the Impulsor carry troops - is it a Primaris Razorback, or a light Predator? No side doors, but given the rear engine spacing there might be a rear ramp. If it's just a flying Predator-lite I hope it gets better than 3 heavy stubbers and 2 heavy bolters.
But what about the cool-looking tank? Well, that’ll be the Impulsor. We know that you’ve been after a dedicated transport for your Primaris Space Marines, and this is the answer!
The dread is the thing I'm least sold on, but it harkens back to very old RT era lore, where it was said there were dreadnoughts operated in a more conventional manner.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
Im going to laugh when is like White Scars, Fists, Salamanders and DA, BA, SW players flip.
Don’t really get what you’re saying. Why would they get mad?
6 at least supplements (likely Scars, Fists, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Salamanders), and then the three codexes to cover Da, Ba, Sw.
That covers all the foundings (and their successors) and then everyone’s happy
Overread wrote: I'm thinking that as Endless Spells did so well for AoS and that its production GW can shift to China we'll see 40K copy the mechanic over. Much like faction terrain has become a thing for 40K and AoS. I can well see different factions getting different spells whilst forces like Tau would get something like a "summon drones" ability etc... What will be interesting is if things like the demon faction Endless Spells carry over to 40K like the models do. Imagine having flaming heads spewing hook whips charging across in 40K!
I like Endless Spells in AoS, but in 40k something about them doesn't sit right for me outside of maybe games set in the Cicatrix Maledictum.
Certain battlefield effects like a vortex for a tear into the warp or a poison gas cloud might be cool, but those aren't rally speels.
I guess I keep thinking about a direct port of them from AoS to 40k, but GW might implement them in a different way that I will find really cool. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
If it was framed as a tyranid spore cloud or swarm of buzzer squigs or necron nanoscarab hive does that make you feel any better? Because its all just the same crap to sell models with different names.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
Im going to laugh when is like White Scars, Fists, Salamanders and DA, BA, SW players flip.
Don’t really get what you’re saying. Why would they get mad?
6 at least supplements (likely Scars, Fists, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Salamanders), and then the three codexes to cover Da, Ba, Sw.
That covers all the foundings (and their successors) and then everyone’s happy
I'm not exactly happy. This is the SAME EXACT BLOAT we got in 7th.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
Im going to laugh when is like White Scars, Fists, Salamanders and DA, BA, SW players flip.
Don’t really get what you’re saying. Why would they get mad?
6 at least supplements (likely Scars, Fists, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Salamanders), and then the three codexes to cover Da, Ba, Sw.
That covers all the foundings (and their successors) and then everyone’s happy
I'm not exactly happy. This is the SAME EXACT BLOAT we got in 7th.
That’s a different (valid) issue/complaint entirely to his post though.
Overread wrote: I'm thinking that as Endless Spells did so well for AoS and that its production GW can shift to China we'll see 40K copy the mechanic over. Much like faction terrain has become a thing for 40K and AoS. I can well see different factions getting different spells whilst forces like Tau would get something like a "summon drones" ability etc... What will be interesting is if things like the demon faction Endless Spells carry over to 40K like the models do. Imagine having flaming heads spewing hook whips charging across in 40K!
I like Endless Spells in AoS, but in 40k something about them doesn't sit right for me outside of maybe games set in the Cicatrix Maledictum.
Certain battlefield effects like a vortex for a tear into the warp or a poison gas cloud might be cool, but those aren't rally speels.
I guess I keep thinking about a direct port of them from AoS to 40k, but GW might implement them in a different way that I will find really cool. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
If it was framed as a tyranid spore cloud or swarm of buzzer squigs or necron nanoscarab hive does that make you feel any better? Because its all just the same crap to sell models with different names.
“Oh you think your army is done? Here’s a set of rules and models you NEED to buy to keep up with the meta...”
Also, if you cant handle 9 distinct chapter variations of extra rules, its probably a good indication you should never get into HH lmao. Its not hard to remember what color marine does what.
WhiteDog wrote: With a little bit of luck, the Imperial Fist codex will also talks about Crimson Fist and Black Templars ?
Hopefully. Imperial Fists are long overdue a codex discussing them and their successors.
Additionally some Imperial Fists/Crimson Fists moulded chapter badge shoulder pads please. Like the ones they released with the Xmas Battleforce box and never got round to adding as a separately purchasable upgrade sprue. Perhaps with the new Primaris options and the Shoulder pads with the quarter circle undercuts they are making a new upgrade design. I hope so.
Lastly, Primaris'd Pedro Kantor and Alessio Cortez please.
Overread wrote: I'm thinking that as Endless Spells did so well for AoS and that its production GW can shift to China we'll see 40K copy the mechanic over. Much like faction terrain has become a thing for 40K and AoS. I can well see different factions getting different spells whilst forces like Tau would get something like a "summon drones" ability etc... What will be interesting is if things like the demon faction Endless Spells carry over to 40K like the models do. Imagine having flaming heads spewing hook whips charging across in 40K!
I like Endless Spells in AoS, but in 40k something about them doesn't sit right for me outside of maybe games set in the Cicatrix Maledictum.
Certain battlefield effects like a vortex for a tear into the warp or a poison gas cloud might be cool, but those aren't rally speels.
I guess I keep thinking about a direct port of them from AoS to 40k, but GW might implement them in a different way that I will find really cool. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
If it was framed as a tyranid spore cloud or swarm of buzzer squigs or necron nanoscarab hive does that make you feel any better? Because its all just the same crap to sell models with different names.
“Oh you think your army is done? Here’s a set of rules and models you NEED to buy to keep up with the meta...”
It's down to the players if they want to chase the meta. They could just be happy playing with what they have in their own circles.
Overread wrote: I'm thinking that as Endless Spells did so well for AoS and that its production GW can shift to China we'll see 40K copy the mechanic over. Much like faction terrain has become a thing for 40K and AoS. I can well see different factions getting different spells whilst forces like Tau would get something like a "summon drones" ability etc... What will be interesting is if things like the demon faction Endless Spells carry over to 40K like the models do. Imagine having flaming heads spewing hook whips charging across in 40K!
I like Endless Spells in AoS, but in 40k something about them doesn't sit right for me outside of maybe games set in the Cicatrix Maledictum.
Certain battlefield effects like a vortex for a tear into the warp or a poison gas cloud might be cool, but those aren't rally speels.
I guess I keep thinking about a direct port of them from AoS to 40k, but GW might implement them in a different way that I will find really cool. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
If it was framed as a tyranid spore cloud or swarm of buzzer squigs or necron nanoscarab hive does that make you feel any better? Because its all just the same crap to sell models with different names.
Framing is important to me. Like, all Black Library books exist to sell toys, but I still enjoy reading some and don't enjoy reading others.
If they do a good job with the models and coming up with a narrative that makes sense (in the context of 40k) then I will be happy. If it's just a lazy cash grab I won't.
Maybe I'm just missing something but it is a bit concerning how other than the cover of the additional suppliments (Unless that's a Primaris too?) there's no seemingly sight of Space Marines in the preview stuff, it's all Primaris Marines.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Maybe I'm just missing something but it is a bit concerning how other than the cover of the additional suppliments there's no seemingly sight of Space Marines in the preview stuff, it's all Primaris Marines.
I... really like the not-Dread. Well, I don't like the cage cockpit, but that's easy to fix. Everything else about it just kinda works. It's a ridiculous walking war machine, but it's also a believable walking war machine.
And I can pillage it for my Ork projects, so there's that too.
The flying Rhino suffers from the same problem the flying Land Rider does - threaded vehicles are just cooler.
Zuri Prime wrote: Not too excited about the supplements, looks like a needless cash grab.
Not going to lap this one up like some other are, GW is returning to its greedy roots.
They literally said no more managing tuns of books at the launch of 8th. Now its just as bad as 7th. Idk why players are so loyal to such a terrible game system.
Because:
1) GW continues to make top end models
2) The Lore is one of the richest and deepest of any of the other wargames. Heck you can spend a fortune and spend years reading codex, rule books, battletomes and novels from BL.
3) The artwork inspires peoples imaginations
4) GW is big and popular - big thing this - so you can collect for the two main games and pretty much travel anywhere and if there's a game club that plays miniature wargames they will likely play 40K and AoS (bit weaker on AoS but its growing super fast)
Literally make one big SM codex my dude. Or cut the miscellaneous stuff and release fluff books separately, with the rules and regular lore package like a normal codex. GW has backtracked on their proimises at the start of 8th because they see money signs.
John Prins wrote: The question is, can the Impulsor carry troops - is it a Primaris Razorback, or a light Predator? No side doors, but given the rear engine spacing there might be a rear ramp. If it's just a flying Predator-lite I hope it gets better than 3 heavy stubbers and 2 heavy bolters.
So looking at this, with all the new units, new codex and supplements, I think I just need to buckle down and finish my "regular" marines before they get dumped, and enjoy them a little while longer. I'll put away all my primaris stuff for now until all this rolls out. So my DAs and Deathwatch need to get their models done sharpish.
I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Maybe I'm just missing something but it is a bit concerning how other than the cover of the additional suppliments (Unless that's a Primaris too?) there's no seemingly sight of Space Marines in the preview stuff, it's all Primaris Marines.
Is that honestly a surprise, by this point? Writings been on the wall for some time now.
(and yes, the guy on the Ultramarines cover has a Primaris backpack)
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
I'm a marine player, but I feel you. I'd like to see a more equitable love from GW for all factions.
At 1:20 on the 2nd video (the one with the models) to the left of Khan is what looks like an Intercessor sergeant with a side knot (White Scar) head and a curved chain sword. Is this gonna be a White Scars upgrade Primaris kit? And therefore will each supplement be getting a Primarisised special character and an upgrade kit?
No wolves on Fenris wrote: At 1:20 on the 2nd video (the one with the models) to the left of Khan is what looks like an Intercessor sergeant with a side knot (White Scar) head and a curved chain sword. Is this gonna be a White Scars upgrade Primaris kit? And therefore will each supplement be getting a Primarisised special character and an upgrade kit?
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
The minimarines are done for, so they need to rapidly get the line to the state where it can reasonably function as Primaris only.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Maybe I'm just missing something but it is a bit concerning how other than the cover of the additional suppliments (Unless that's a Primaris too?) there's no seemingly sight of Space Marines in the preview stuff, it's all Primaris Marines.
That's been in the cards from day one. The Dark Imperium novel is particularly blatant about it. 'The time of old-style marines has ended' appears in a couple different variations at least four times by characters saying it or thinking it, and that was the front end of the introduction of Primaris (people here were datamining the text for descriptions of unit types and weapons prior to the model reveals). Per the Devastation of Baal, the entire BA chapter and _all_ successors are roughly 50-70% Primaris at this stage (except for Ultima founding chapters, which are 100%), because that's what arrived as reinforcements and how future 'production' of SM was going to happen. (Though the Flesh Tearers may reject both).
Model wise, they haven't spent a lot of time keeping old marines in the picture. I doubt they'll get the 'Free Cities' treatment any time soon, but the next time the Codex rolls around for update? Yeah, I can see some cuts happening to make room for more new primaris kits. Especially, AT kits, still...
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On release dates- what does anyone think? The only thing approaching a released date was Autumn 2019 for the Psychic thing (in the video)
That makes me think that the codex, revealed units and the Ultra Scars supplements will be late august or early september, probably the latter so there is space for Beastgrave and the other little boxed games.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Also, if you cant handle 9 distinct chapter variations of extra rules, its probably a good indication you should never get into HH lmao. Its not hard to remember what color marine does what.
Instead of being condescending maybe look at the issue as it stands in 40k perhaps? Where literally any chapter can have any chapter tactics applied to it, so those Blue SMs could be White Scars for rules purposes one day and actually Ultramarines the next, and someone else's could be Imperial Fists. Get it? Can I do the snobbish "lmao" now?
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
I'm a marine player, but I feel you. I'd like to see a more equitable love from GW for all factions.
Who's to say it won't happen?
Also, that's absolute nonsense about "nothing apart from their Codex". Or are we going to pretend that the Genestealer Cult release didn't happen? The Ork buggies?
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
The minimarines are done for, so they need to rapidly get the line to the state where it can reasonably function as Primaris only.
You call a "Plastic Spiritseer" (released a year ago and remember it's a SINGLE MODEL) release something worthwhile for Xenos? Shall I remember you how many Space Marines releases happened in the last 2 years? I honestly lost the count and this feels pathetic for both Marine and Non-Marine players.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
The minimarines are done for, so they need to rapidly get the line to the state where it can reasonably function as Primaris only.
IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
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On release dates- what does anyone think? The only thing approaching a released date was Autumn 2019 for the Psychic thing (in the video)
That makes me think that the codex, revealed units and the Ultra Scars supplements will be late august or early september, probably the latter so there is space for Beastgrave and the other little boxed games.
We have Warcry for AOS currently, so I expect this new marine stuff will be soon since we need a 40k release in between warcry and beastgrave.
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On release dates- what does anyone think? The only thing approaching a released date was Autumn 2019 for the Psychic thing (in the video)
That makes me think that the codex, revealed units and the Ultra Scars supplements will be late august or early september, probably the latter so there is space for Beastgrave and the other little boxed games.
We have Warcry for AOS currently, so I expect this new marine stuff will be soon since we need a 40k release in between warcry and beastgrave.
Beastgrave is September 21st for preorders. They posted up the novel that goes with it.
WarCry's finished, barring the two unseen warbands from the Core Book, next week.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
The minimarines are done for, so they need to rapidly get the line to the state where it can reasonably function as Primaris only.
You call a "Plastic Spiritseer" (released a year ago and remember it's a SINGLE MODEL) release something worthwhile for Xenos? Shall I remember you how many Space Marines releases happened in the last 2 years? I honestly lost the count and this feels pathetic for both Marine and Non-Marine players.
2. Including this one. If you include chaos marines - 3. Excluding death guard since they're a diverse enough faction in terms of models and stats lines not to just be 'more marines'.
Just to bring up. There are plenty of factions (not explicitly Xenos) that haven't received much of anything for ages. Some factions, like Ad Mech, Grey Knights or Necrons seem like an afterthought for this edition. I think it's entirely fair to criticise Games Workshop for this as well.
No wolves on Fenris wrote: At 1:20 on the 2nd video (the one with the models) to the left of Khan is what looks like an Intercessor sergeant with a side knot (White Scar) head and a curved chain sword. Is this gonna be a White Scars upgrade Primaris kit? And therefore will each supplement be getting a Primarisised special character and an upgrade kit?
Sure looks like it; not only does that sarge have some new bits, but you can see that on one of the other intercessors, the Scars chapter logo is clearly molded on, not a transfer.
Also explains why they haven’t released the Fists upgrade sprue separately yet: it’ll come with the codex supplement. I expect an upgrade sprue for every legion.
Hopefully GW will not limit themselves to six supplements. The BT are divergent enough from the Fists to warrant there own book and the BA, DA and SW would IMO work in the format. Although they might need to be a bit bigger than the others to fit there unique units. DW would probably be better off with a stand alone book though.
A quick flick through the current SM dex surprised me with about 62 pages(more if you include the model showcases) of chapter specific lore and rules that could be farmed out to the supplements.
Could the Scars being one of the first out of the gate mean that some kind of Primaris biker is coming with the main book?
fraser1191 wrote: Imo the psychic Awakening thing at the end of the article may have an inquistor logo but I'd say it has to do with eldar
That's the Astra Telepathica symbol. Stylised, but essentially the same.
Alright fair enough I forgot they had their own logo.
But in the blurb below they say the event will effect all factions. So does this mean armies that don't have psykers will get psykers or equivalents? Tau auxiliaries come to mind
I feel like Black Templars really aren't as divergent as people make them out to be. A big part of their schtick is:
a) No Librarians
b) Emperor's Champions
c) Crusader Squads
That's three things plus the actual traits, all of which just affect unit selections.
Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like Black Templars really aren't as divergent as people make them out to be. A big part of their schtick is:
a) No Librarians
b) Emperor's Champions
c) Crusader Squads
That's three things plus the actual traits, all of which just affect unit selections.
Which makes them at least three times as divergent as the ultramarines, the literal poster boys for the codex itself, and they get a book.
They’re also way more divergent than the Imperial Fists so rolling them in together isn’t really viable unless you want the supplement to be almost as big as a regular codex.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Hopefully GW will not limit themselves to six supplements. The BT are divergent enough from the Fists to warrant there own book and the BA, DA and SW would IMO work in the format. Although they might need to be a bit bigger than the others to fit there unique units. DW would probably be better off with a stand alone book though.
A quick flick through the current SM dex surprised me with about 62 pages(more if you include the model showcases) of chapter specific lore and rules that could be farmed out to the supplements.
Could the Scars being one of the first out of the gate mean that some kind of Primaris biker is coming with the main book?
I was assuming there isn’t any ‘first books’ and they’ll just drop them all with the Codex. Though if everyone gets models and upgrade sprues then yeah I guess..
I’d assume Templar’s stuff will be in the Fists supplement.
I really don’t think it’s DA, BA and SW as three of these. They are mini supplements to a Codex.
You can’t fit all of their stuff in a little supplement compared to Scars who may have a character and some rules..
NivlacSupreme wrote: Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
Part of it can easily be explained away as the training...also you wouldn't want the bird to hurt its talons.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
NivlacSupreme wrote: Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
That might be more for the bird’s comfort than his; ceramite can’t be comfortable on delicate talon-pads…
(Seriously, falconers and other raptor-keepers provide padded perches for a reason.)
SW, BA & DA are too different from other SM to be in just a codex supplement come on... We're not talking about a few rules and a few characters : those three chapter each have a good and healthy list of unique units, plus many characters.
I get that xenos are lagging behind in terms of release, but in terms of actual gameplay they are not. Most xenos codexes are great and most armies are in a good place right now, minus maybe Eldar who need an update in some of their kits that's for sure. This is not the case for SM who are a bit lackluster in my opinion.
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like Black Templars really aren't as divergent as people make them out to be. A big part of their schtick is:
a) No Librarians
b) Emperor's Champions
c) Crusader Squads
That's three things plus the actual traits, all of which just affect unit selections.
Which makes them at least three times as divergent as the ultramarines, the literal poster boys for the codex itself, and they get a book.
The Victrix Guard beg to differ with you.
Tyrannic War Veterans beg to differ with you.
They’re also way more divergent than the Imperial Fists so rolling them in together isn’t really viable unless you want the supplement to be almost as big as a regular codex.
This is, of course, also just you assuming that every single book won't have signature units or the like...which would be silly since:
Codex: Space Marines has everything you need to play with an army of gene-enhanced super-soldiers, and each of the supplements offers you additional, Chapter-specific datasheets and thematic rules that emphasise their unique heritage and the genetic legacy of their Primarch.
I am sick and tired of mech with unprotected pilots. It’s obvious that the inspiration is Aliens (with Matrix and Avatar going the same path, and ofc Dreadknights). The problem is that the loader in alien is that it’s basically a forklift on legs. It’s civilian, so of course the pilot is not protected from military hazards..
Messiah wrote: I am sick and tired of mech with unprotected pilots. It’s obvious that the inspiration is Aliens (with Matrix and Avatar going the same path, and ofc Dreadknights). The problem is that the loader in alien is that it’s basically a forklift on legs. It’s civilian, so of course the pilot is not protected from military hazards..
He's not unprotected. He's wearing power armor.
And it's not modeled off the Aliens loader. All of GW's designs come entirely from their designers' heads with no outside influences. They said so in a court of law, so it must be true.
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like Black Templars really aren't as divergent as people make them out to be. A big part of their schtick is:
a) No Librarians
b) Emperor's Champions
c) Crusader Squads
That's three things plus the actual traits, all of which just affect unit selections.
And I remember when all marines could have Emperor's Champions. It was probably in the third edition.
Messiah wrote: I am sick and tired of mech with unprotected pilots. It’s obvious that the inspiration is Aliens (with Matrix and Avatar going the same path, and ofc Dreadknights). The problem is that the loader in alien is that it’s basically a forklift on legs. It’s civilian, so of course the pilot is not protected from military hazards..
He's not unprotected. He's wearing power armor.
He it's not modeled off the aliens loader. All of GW's designs come entirely from their designers' heads with no outside influences. They said so in a court of law, so it must be true.
WhiteDog wrote: SW, BA & DA are too different from other SM to be in just a codex supplement come on... We're not talking about a few rules and a few characters : those three chapter each have a good and healthy list of unique units, plus many characters.
I don't have a DA or SW dex, but the BA book has a lot of stuff that's repeating what is in the regular SM one. A quick flick though got me to 35 pages of duplicate info in just the datasheets section. Weapon stats and fluff could probably add another ten pages to that. Its all speculation of course, but I could see them getting a supplement with a larger page count.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
The minimarines are done for, so they need to rapidly get the line to the state where it can reasonably function as Primaris only.
You call a "Plastic Spiritseer" (released a year ago and remember it's a SINGLE MODEL) release something worthwhile for Xenos? Shall I remember you how many Space Marines releases happened in the last 2 years? I honestly lost the count and this feels pathetic for both Marine and Non-Marine players.
2. Including this one. If you include chaos marines - 3. Excluding death guard since they're a diverse enough faction in terms of models and stats lines not to just be 'more marines'.
chaos Marines aren't just "more marines" they're a distinct faction. sure they have a similer root but calling them "more marines" is frankly silly. the fact is the only new model marines got since the launch of 8th has been a single unit. which ain't much. I understand people's frustration here but claiming all GW ever releases for 8th edition is Marines is dumb.
it gets even stupider when they push their heads up their rectums and declare "IF IT HAS A HUMAN IN POWER ARMOR IT'S MARINES!"
Automatically Appended Next Post: on another note, the lack of any suprssor preview has me a bit 0.o.
GW's said that every primaris unit from shadowspear will be getting a release but.. no supressors
In any case, I'm not quite sure about the hover rhino. I like that they continued with the grav tank theme but the back section looks a tad weird. It is like a pick up truck. I hope that there's an enclosed variant.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
Probably for the birds comfort. Better grip than ceramite for talons.
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like Black Templars really aren't as divergent as people make them out to be. A big part of their schtick is:
a) No Librarians
b) Emperor's Champions
c) Crusader Squads
That's three things plus the actual traits, all of which just affect unit selections.
Some of the stuff they had used to make them more divergent, but has since been given to all Space Marine chapters, like the Land Raider Crusader.
I'm trying to remember back to the Black Templars codex and things that made them different. The one that jumps out at me is the vows that they used to take. IIRC at the start of the game the BT player would choose a vow that had some benefit and some downside, but I don't really remember and my BT codex isn't at hand.
I do agree that I don't think the Black Templars need a whole codex. A whole lot can be done with a few pages of rules in some other supplement. I think that some of the problems BT players are having are more that generic chainsword marines aren't doing that well, and if those units get fixed then I think BT might be fixed as well.
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like Black Templars really aren't as divergent as people make them out to be. A big part of their schtick is:
a) No Librarians
b) Emperor's Champions
c) Crusader Squads
That's three things plus the actual traits, all of which just affect unit selections.
Some of the stuff they had used to make them more divergent, but has since been given to all Space Marine chapters, like the Land Raider Crusader.
I'm trying to remember back to the Black Templars codex and things that made them different. The one that jumps out at me is the vows that they used to take. IIRC at the start of the game the BT player would choose a vow that had some benefit and some downside, but I don't really remember and my BT codex isn't at hand.
I do agree that I don't think the Black Templars need a whole codex. A whole lot can be done with a few pages of rules in some other supplement. I think that some of the problems BT players are having are more that generic chainsword marines aren't doing that well, and if those units get fixed then I think BT might be fixed as well.
also there's a lot of divergance aspects that are hugely major that don't really have anything in table top at play
Zuri Prime wrote: Not too excited about the supplements, looks like a needless cash grab.
Not going to lap this one up like some other are, GW is returning to its greedy roots.
They literally said no more managing tuns of books at the launch of 8th. Now its just as bad as 7th. Idk why players are so loyal to such a terrible game system.
Because:
1) GW continues to make top end models
2) The Lore is one of the richest and deepest of any of the other wargames. Heck you can spend a fortune and spend years reading codex, rule books, battletomes and novels from BL.
3) The artwork inspires peoples imaginations
4) GW is big and popular - big thing this - so you can collect for the two main games and pretty much travel anywhere and if there's a game club that plays miniature wargames they will likely play 40K and AoS (bit weaker on AoS but its growing super fast)
Gotta love convincing yourself you're not getting ripped off.
gainsay wrote: Wtf is going on with some of these marine models. That dread is really silly. I think after 20+ years of collecting marines im done with the range. I've never been a primaris basher but some of these are corny af. Also tired of the annoying money grabs with these books.
The new Dread is clearly someone watching Aliens with the loader VS alien queen scene and then adding some ranged guns to it
Granted that's about 20-30 years late but better late than never - and it can now fight a tervigon! A Tryanid Queen (well closest we'll get unless GW throws us a Norn Queen)
??Dreadknight:"wait,what about me?"
that new baby(it called "Invictor Tactical Warsuit") not a Power loader from Aliens/Alien 2,but a APU from Matrix AND AMP from Avatar.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm curious about the "redacted" supplements. If its just the existing variant chapters(BA, DA, SW and DW) why bother hiding them? Including the White Scars book would take up all five. Yet we know that an IH character is inbound so chances are good they will get there own book as well.
Im going to laugh when is like White Scars, Fists, Salamanders and DA, BA, SW players flip.
Not sure what you mean. It _is_ going to be Scars, Iron Hands, Fists, Ravens and Sallies. The Scars supplement is in the article, and the IH Forge Father (or whatever) has been lurking around for months.
I'd expect the Fists one to come alongside the upgrade sprue that was stashed in the Xmas box, and probably a Primarized Lysander or someone.
The angels and wolves have their own respective codex for their wacky stuff, and can refer to the new book for all the datasheets. So they're effectively 'supplements' already.
I mean exactly what I wrote. The prime marine faction players complaining just like they do every time the ultras get stuff this year.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Also, if you cant handle 9 distinct chapter variations of extra rules, its probably a good indication you should never get into HH lmao. Its not hard to remember what color marine does what.
Instead of being condescending maybe look at the issue as it stands in 40k perhaps? Where literally any chapter can have any chapter tactics applied to it, so those Blue SMs could be White Scars for rules purposes one day and actually Ultramarines the next, and someone else's could be Imperial Fists. Get it? Can I do the snobbish "lmao" now?
And any opponent worth playing against would gladly inform you of what chapter their custom painted one is a descendant from, so Im not really seeing a point. Thats a pretty common practice.
WhiteDog wrote: With a little bit of luck, the Imperial Fist codex will also talks about Crimson Fist and Black Templars ?
Hopefully. Imperial Fists are long overdue a codex discussing them and their successors.
Additionally some Imperial Fists/Crimson Fists moulded chapter badge shoulder pads please. Like the ones they released with the Xmas Battleforce box and never got round to adding as a separately purchasable upgrade sprue. Perhaps with the new Primaris options and the Shoulder pads with the quarter circle undercuts they are making a new upgrade design. I hope so.
Lastly, Primaris'd Pedro Kantor and Alessio Cortez please.
As a fists player I really hope we get the primaris upgrades and decal sheets. Im hoping all these codex's have a hero model like the scars with the releases.
WhiteDog wrote: SW, BA & DA are too different from other SM to be in just a codex supplement come on... We're not talking about a few rules and a few characters : those three chapter each have a good and healthy list of unique units, plus many characters.
I don't have a DA or SW dex, but the BA book has a lot of stuff that's repeating what is in the regular SM one. A quick flick though got me to 35 pages of duplicate info in just the datasheets section. Weapon stats and fluff could probably add another ten pages to that. Its all speculation of course, but I could see them getting a supplement with a larger page count.
I agree, there are enough shared units that you can easily have a primary Marine codex and a Supplement for each Chapter to include their unique rules and units.
My money is on the previewed 6 supplements being the following:
-UM & White Scars as we've seen including models for Tiggy and Khan
-Iron hands with Tech marine model
-Raven Guard with Shrike
-Salamanders with Vulkan
-Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists & BTs with a character or 2
Once those are out GW could and 100% should start releasing BA, DA & SW supplements. But since those currently have Codices, they aren't immediately needed .
At most these would only have 5-10 more pages on content for all the unique units.
I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.
It's bizarre.
And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.
WhiteDog wrote: SW, BA & DA are too different from other SM to be in just a codex supplement come on... We're not talking about a few rules and a few characters : those three chapter each have a good and healthy list of unique units, plus many characters.
I don't have a DA or SW dex, but the BA book has a lot of stuff that's repeating what is in the regular SM one. A quick flick though got me to 35 pages of duplicate info in just the datasheets section. Weapon stats and fluff could probably add another ten pages to that. Its all speculation of course, but I could see them getting a supplement with a larger page count.
I agree, there are enough shared units that you can easily have a primary Marine codex and a Supplement for each Chapter to include their unique rules and units.
My money is on the previewed 6 supplements being the following:
-UM & White Scars as we've seen including models for Tiggy and Khan
-Iron hands with Tech marine model
-Raven Guard with Shrike
-Salamanders with Vulkan
-Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists & BTs with a character or 2
Once those are out GW could and 100% should start releasing BA, DA & SW supplements. But since those currently have Codices, they aren't immediately needed .
At most these would only have 5-10 more pages on content for all the unique units.
-
The Dark Angels have two specific land speeders, two specific flyers, a specific termi champion, a specific termi apothecary, a specific termi ancient, a specific terminator unit, specific weapon load out for termi, two specific HQ (Ravenwing Talonmaster and investigator chaplain), a specific bike unit, a specific bike ancient, apothecary and champion, and 6 specific characters.... How do you even compare this to the imperial fist, or the black templar ? And how does that fit into 5 pages ?
And I think Space Wolves have even more than that.
Yodhrin wrote: I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.
It's bizarre.
And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.
Between that and the rugged/outdoor/sporty roll cage aesthetic,,, this may be their attempt at pandering to an American audience.
Yodhrin wrote: I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.
It's bizarre.
And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.
It's odd but its VERY 80s sci-fi. It fits right into the unit being a mash-up of the Aliens Loader and Robocop. It also fits with the Imperium and their rather rustic approach to technology, even though they already have tech that would let them put a gun into an arm socket. The light-dread clearly looks like a utilitarian unit that was repurposed into a front line battle unit.
Personally I really like the concept, its quirky and feels right in the Imperium. It's that same reason that the Lemon Russ exists even though modern tech would render it utterly useless on a battlefield. It's a sign that even with all these new advances, the Imperium stil hinders itself with archaic concepts and designs that they are not allowed to innovate or update etc....
WhiteDog wrote: SW, BA & DA are too different from other SM to be in just a codex supplement come on...
BA and DA are Codex chapters. They're not "too different". The Woofs, I'll give you that, but the Angels of Death are no more unique (less, I'd argue) than the Black Templars.
Crimson wrote: What were ... the various Ork Buggies ... then?
A tragedy.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Maybe I'm just missing something but it is a bit concerning how other than the cover of the additional suppliments (Unless that's a Primaris too?) there's no seemingly sight of Space Marines in the preview stuff, it's all Primaris Marines.
Are you at all surprised? Regular Marines are done.
Yodhrin wrote: I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.
It's bizarre.
And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.
I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people, doesn't quite do it for me.
I'm trying to decide how to feel about the walker in general. I think I would like it more if it just was a light dreadnought with a sarcophagus instead of a pilot. These sort of piloted exo-suits are cool, but somehow it doesn't quite work as a space marine unit.
I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people,
Pretty much this. Same reason I like Logan's sleigh. It's utterly ridiculous, and so long as you aren't trying to take the setting seriously, that works fine.
1. Why are Heavy Stubbers suddenly all over Astartes vehicles. The total dregs of 40k, underhive gangers, genestealer cults, chaos uprisings, all use them because they're low rent guns, all over the place. Why would the bolter-fetish boys be suddenly fascinated by old fashioned 'machine guns'?
2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.
3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.
3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.
I think the latest generation of GW artists has simply abandoned the grim dark aesthetic that made 40k so cool in the 90s and 2000s. FW sculpts and HH sculpts represent peak 40k styling and nothing GW has released recently has ever come close.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: 1. Why are Heavy Stubbers suddenly all over Astartes vehicles. The total dregs of 40k, underhive gangers, genestealer cults, chaos uprisings, all use them because they're low rent guns, all over the place. Why would the bolter-fetish boys be suddenly fascinated by old fashioned 'machine guns'?
Them and the AdMech, if I'm honest. Why are the two most technologically advanced forces in the Imperium (Custodes not withstanding) using the 40K equivalent of a Browning M1919? Makes no sense me.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: 2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.
All Phobos Marines seem to be about taking "TactiCool" to its (il)logical endpoint, so in a way this weird gunslinger walker makes sense.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: 3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.
They painted themselves into a corner with Marines a long time ago (ref. Centurions!), and rather than making the last of the range into plastic (Techmarines and a few others), they just dumped old Marines and restarted with Primaris, giving us the current situation of sillier and sillier Marine releases.
1. Why are Heavy Stubbers suddenly all over Astartes vehicles. The total dregs of 40k, underhive gangers, genestealer cults, chaos uprisings, all use them because they're low rent guns, all over the place. Why would the bolter-fetish boys be suddenly fascinated by old fashioned 'machine guns'?
2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.
3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.
Well, for #1, it isn't sudden. They started out on the the Primaris Box Tank #1, with no explanation given. Same for the second. Its still really weird, but it isn't new or sudden
For 2, a servitor or serf isn't worthy. Also, it drops the skill level, and further, they wouldn't be trusted by the marines going into battle with them to stick it out and know no fear the way a marine can. Servitors as tools for the techmarine is one thing, in the even-more-bigger armor? Not a chance.
For 3, 'No use' is a little strong. Clearly they don't have all the kinks worked out, but infiltrators certainly have a use, even if its just the denial of 9" drops.
3. I think they're out of ideas for Astartes, they're tripping over themselves to try and not created direct upgrades from standard marines to primaris so they're conjuring up units that have little use and that noone was asking for. Given how easily FW seems to come up with decent looking units for HH, I'm thinking they need to pop over there for a cuppa and a chat for some inspiration.
Yes... Most primaris units have weird design to be fair. Phobos armor is supposed to be more mobile but it doesn't give anything in mobility by itself ; Repulsor have tons of weapons but no coherence ; same for the new executioner ; the repressors have heavy weapons with jet packs, etc.
There is a fundamental problem with Primaris design in my opinion. That being said I love the minis overall (except maybe that new Dreadnought).
They painted themselves into a corner with Marines a long time ago (ref. Centurions!), and rather than making the last of the range into plastic (Techmarines and a few others), they just dumped old Marines and restarted with Primaris, giving us the current situation of sillier and sillier Marine releases.
I don't doubt that once they've completely removed the original marine units and sold their new primaris army for a bit, they'll "discover" how to equip primaris with old school gear and voila, they get rerelease the entire back catalogue of classic marine designs with primaris twists.. .
To be fair at least primaris stubbers are ap1. But I think ita a result of a functional gearing up. They can afford to build and equip them faster than other weapons fluff wise so they are getting used.
Yodhrin wrote: I genuinely can't get over the fact that so many people online seem to unironically like the sidearm thing on the not-dread.
It's bizarre.
And of course now someone will do the whole "hurr durr haterz gunna hate stop ragin' grandpa you mad lul" routine, but for real, I'm not angry, just baffled. It's pure basement-tier memery. Uncut cringe.
I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people, doesn't quite do it for me.
I'm trying to decide how to feel about the walker in general. I think I would like it more if it just was a light dreadnought with a sarcophagus instead of a pilot. These sort of piloted exo-suits are cool, but somehow it doesn't quite work as a space marine unit.
That is where I am at. I think I would actually like it if was all the same save instead of a pilot it had the redemptor style sarcophagus. As it is now, I think it moved to no pre-order and wait until Black Friday to see if I might want it.
I don't mind the sidearm so much if perhaps the kit also came with a model representing the pilot carrying it along with some rules detailing the walker destruction and a chance the pilot could be put on the table. I mean Primaris I already have Reaper, they might as well get D. Va too.
Hulksmash wrote: To be fair at least primaris stubbers are ap1. But I think ita a result of a functional gearing up. They can afford to build and equip them faster than other weapons fluff wise so they are getting used.
I thought that was an amazing stubber before I realised this ain’t 7th anymore.
I couldn't possibly want any more Space Marine stuff. Besides, most of the Primaris stuff has looked kind of ridicu- WOOAAAHHHH WHAT IS THIS I WANT THIS WWOOOOOOAAAHHHH
Hulksmash wrote: To be fair at least primaris stubbers are ap1. But I think ita a result of a functional gearing up. They can afford to build and equip them faster than other weapons fluff wise so they are getting used.
That isn't in line with what's going on with Primaris equipment: Orbital insertion jetpacks, plasma guns by the bushel (in multiple variations), even more better bolters, rare cannons, grav plating by the box, high tech comms, even-more-better powerfists (relatively rare, admittedly) new varieties of power armor (not just a new version, but Gravis and Aggressor and stuff that can survive orbital insertion (somehow)), rain of death grenade launchers and... stubbers.
-1 AP or not, they're still basically modern 50 cal machine guns, and we've got half-a-dozen ways of improving armor penetration with such things. Its just such as vastly lower tech level for no apparent reason.
Regarding BA/DA being supplements, think of it this way:
Take out EVERYTHING in the current Codices that is shared in the main Marine book. I'd suspect what's left wouldn't be more than a half dozen or so pages more than the upcoming supplements, which look to be AT LEAST 50-100 pages each.
You're telling me that BAs DAs and SWs need over 100+ pages just for their unique stuff? There are whole non-Imperial factions that don't need that many pages
Kardan Stronos already had rules before, it would make sense for them to release him and an iron father rule.
My issue so far is: Where is my melee damn it!
I want to see some more stuff and read the rules before I make any judgment calls on whether this is bad or not
The new dreadnought is great.
The heroic intervention ability where we get +1 attack on a charge... Hmmm Sounds like a rule I suggested and got yelled at for ages about. Incrementive change > large changes.
marines getting that +1 attack is huge. Makes my army far better, and gives me the pride to say feth you Kacey. (he reads my posts its an inside joke)
Anyway i love the new models except for a few minor assertions :
Where are my black templars?
Tigirius's armor and his face are kind of eh, and samey to other marines, I've seen him more as elegant than stern. His armor should be more decorated fitting to his office.
Other than that looks like this might be a good release.
1. The bolter is supposed to be sacred amongst marines. A holy relic of destruction. When did the garbage stubber assume that role? Why is the worst weapon in the imperium all over space marine stuff now?
2. The dreadnought is a high honor amongst space marines, and the worst punishment amongst chaos. It was a cool dynamic that made them unique when it came to other sci-fi robot man suits. Now? EVERYONE CAN BE A DREADNOUGHT! WEEEEEEE!!!! Man how insulting to the heroes placed in dreadnoughts. But that's Belisarius Cawl for ya, he doesn't care about tradition.
3. It literally looks like something the genestealer cult should be using, like some sort of working loader. Or the imperial guard.
4. Stealth....dreadnought? Noise dampeners? Why can't every dreadnought just be given noise dampeners now? There's no point in this existing when a landspeeder would be a far superior recon vehicle.
5. No more grimdark because marines are tacticool now.
edit cuz more: 6. Why have super muscles if all primaris are garbage in melee? Seriously why can't they make a single good primaris melee unit? not even the dreadnoughts are good.
I mean I could go on if given the time but you get the point. I still think the idea of space marine snipers are dumb and superfluous but people seem to like the eliminators.
I ask again "what the heck is a grim dark look" how is the rhino "grim dark" well primaris are not?
as for Primaris being good or not in melee. I'd argue that the problem is a lack of a decicated hard hitting close combat unit which presumably we'll get.
I mean primaris are an amazing "bully CC" faction. (in the first round of melee combat a 5 man primaris unit will get 15 ST4 close combat attacks. which isn't great but will suffice for bullying any non CC infantry unit in the game) they'll just collapse if you try to rush them into combat with dedicated CC units. course most of those dedicated CC units I imagine you'll be able to out shoot.
Oh wow, Tigurius and Kor’sarro actually look really good. First Primaris kit besides since the Intercessors that I’ve really liked. I also don’t have to buy the cruddy WS Terninator Praetor just to get a falcon bit now. I’ve wanted a Stormseer model with a falcon (like Njal’s model but not a raven), just haven’t committed to the kitbash.
Probably the only complaints I have are Tigurius’ head looking massive, and he’s got a stupid tactical rock pose. It’s better than the other primaris librarian poses though.
Don Savik wrote: You're right, wrong word choice, I meant dark gothic, not grimdark. There's nothing gothic or baroque about these primaris models.
... nor old marine models. With some terrain bits and Sisters models I'd grant some touches of gothic or baroque, and certainly most of the Imperial Battlefleet Gothic Line (and not just because of the name), but not rhinos, or SM power armor, or bikes, speeders, land raiders or what have you. Marine stuff has generally involved clean lines and curves with minimal ornamentation. Chaos marines, on the other hand/talon...
I really love the Avatar Amp-suit thing. One of my favorite things in the Avatar movie, and now Warhammer 40k gets a version of it. I just hope it doesn't have total crap rules, although I've learned over the years that some of the best models have some of the worst rules (like the new Ork vehicles. I mean, I don't even play Orks and I'm salty that those things basically suck balls). The Impulsor is interesting, although I'm not sure about those weapons (looks like basically just stubbers and storm bolters ).
As for the Primaris characters, I'll bet we get one with each supplement release. Sorry if I've been beaten to this punch, but I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread right now.
Ultramarines: Tigurius
White Scars: Kor'sarro Khan
Iron Hands: As yet unnamed previewed character
Imperial Fists: Darnath Lysander
Salamanders: Vulkan He'stan
Raven Guard: Kayvaan Shrike
Now, I would hope that maybe some of the named DA/BA/SW characters will eventually get their Primaris makeover too. I'd love a Primaris Azrael to stick with all my Hellblasters.
While this doesn't really impact me, I do regret deleting a response I was typing maybe three days back. I was thinking "They should just do a new codex and then all the chapters should get smaller soft-bound 'chapter' books which detail their differences..." and then I deleted it.
Doesn't look like the supplements will be softback, but it's close enough. Oh well, now I'll never feel like a soothsayer.
Now, I would hope that maybe some of the named DA/BA/SW characters will eventually get their Primaris makeover too. I'd love a Primaris Azrael to stick with all my Hellblasters.
On the other hand, DA are the Chapter most likely to reject the Primaris transformation.
Protectors of Tradition would be an interesting place for the Lion's Sons.
One thing for me, I cannot stand the new design on vehicles...repulsor, executioner, impulsor, the admech thing......all are IMHO a huge step back and look like a 5th grade woodwork project slapping together random bits of stuff. Just terrible.
None of them have the classic lines of the Land Raider etc. Whoever is designing the new vehicle line....God, i hope he finds a better job elsewhere and they get someone else.
It's as if we've entered the "robogear" phase of inspirational vacuity.
The characters are ok, khan is nice, the hover rhino is baffling, the cowboy robot is baffling, I can at least see cool conversion potential for both in terms of making them civy terrain or something or like servitor loader or something.
The continued trend of stubbers on everything is aesthetically too much and also really seems out of place. If you're going to give something a stubber, why so many and all over the place?
I think the new mech walker looks pretty cool. Cawl sees dreadnoughts and is like "why are we only putting dead guys in these? They're awesome!"
The Impulsor. . . Meh it's okay. Doesn't look any worse than a landspeeder, which I'm sure a lot of folks complaining think looks classic and "grim dark"
I want to see the back side of it. Almost looks like there could be a platform to stand and shoot? Probably not but could be interesting.
The Impulsor. . . Meh it's okay. Doesn't look any worse than a landspeeder, which I'm sure a lot of folks complaining think looks classic and "grim dark"
I can't speak for everyone else, but no, I've never liked the current landspeeder design. The 2nd Ed speeder was a much more interesting design.
Elbows wrote: Shhhhhhh, if you don't like something you're "mad", or a "hater" or a "troll" or (insert random 2019 vocabulary here).
You forgot the ultimate conversation stopper when you don't want to address the actual issues... the dreaded ism/ist label!!
Eh, some folks will like some things and others won't. It's simply the nature of opinions and art. I don't like the silly construction powerloader dread but I look on the bright side that it'll generate many funny cowboy memes just like Santa Logan on his Sleigh did upon release.
Not liking something is fine but when people say "it doesn't look grimdark/gothic" the arguement is an empty meaningless one that they're trying to use to claim "well obviously it doesn't belong in warhammer 40k"
thing is the term Gothic with regard to art has VERY VERY specific meaning. Some of which is very 40k, other parts less so.
Let's get the obvious and easy out of the way first, Gothic plate armor is a specific type of full plate armor produced in the holy roman empire during the 15h century, noted for partiuclar stylings on it,. the armor was honestly more of a parade armor, with half plates being used in the actual battlefield.
Spoiler:
primaris Marines armor is no more "gothic plate" then old marine armor is. Moving on then to gothic ARTWORK. (which is what 40k means when it discusses gothic)
40k minis are not inspired by gothic sculpture, which actually is noted for column elongnation, which is not added to the minis. in fact old marines are noted as having kinda squat torsos.
one area where some minis are very gothic is the use of protable sculpture. which well not often seen as part of the kit on 40k stuff we occasionally see pictures of land raiders.
that is a VERY gothic looking land raider. but it was 100% a paint job, there's no plastic bits on a land raider to get that look (sadly)
so... what gothic influences are actually ON 40k?ostly in terms of sculpture. art and architecture.
one can see the influence of gothic art when you look at old 40k art in the old books (40k has long since moved away from using the stylized gothic art style in their book art) as well as the arcitecture.
Oh of course not everyone is "mad" but there are some like the dude who was capslocking angry that now anyone can be in a dread and it's insulting (lol) to the marines actually interred in a sarcophagus.
After seeing this new mech, I think I know why we're seeing so many stubbers on new kits: it's purely for aesthetics. They look more "modern" and "sleek". Nevermind that in the 40k universe they're the lowest tech.
I'm really sad they are doing that instead of re-introducing stuff like volkite or maybe some primaris upgraded grav weapons (kinda like how primaris plasma is better).
BrianDavion wrote: Not liking something is fine but when people say "it doesn't look grimdark/gothic" the arguement is an empty meaningless one that they're trying to use to claim "well obviously it doesn't belong in warhammer 40k"
thing is the term Gothic with regard to art has VERY VERY specific meaning. Some of which is very 40k, other parts less so.
Let's get the obvious and easy out of the way first, Gothic plate armor is a specific type of full plate armor produced in the holy roman empire during the 15h century, noted for partiuclar stylings on it,. the armor was honestly more of a parade armor, with half plates being used in the actual battlefield.
Spoiler:
primaris Marines armor is no more "gothic plate" then old marine armor is. Moving on then to gothic ARTWORK. (which is what 40k means when it discusses gothic)
40k minis are not inspired by gothic sculpture, which actually is noted for column elongnation, which is not added to the minis. in fact old marines are noted as having kinda squat torsos.
one area where some minis are very gothic is the use of protable sculpture. which well not often seen as part of the kit on 40k stuff we occasionally see pictures of land raiders.
that is a VERY gothic looking land raider. but it was 100% a paint job, there's no plastic bits on a land raider to get that look (sadly)
so... what gothic influences are actually ON 40k?ostly in terms of sculpture. art and architecture.
one can see the influence of gothic art when you look at old 40k art in the old books (40k has long since moved away from using the stylized gothic art style in their book art) as well as the arcitecture.
40k UNITS have rarely been partiuclarly gothic.
Its plain to literally everyone that Primaris have a separate design schema from original marines, and that this new exosuit is even more of a move away. Not having the exactly correct definitions to describe it doesn't mean they aren't observing something real.
Pintle mount in the firing arc of the turret at the rear is a bit odd. Rule of cool I guess. Maybe the turret has got a WW1 bi-plane style interrupter gear to stop it shooting the pintle gunner in the back of the head.
More importantly complaining about it doesnt matter. GW already picked their design scheme and they are moving forward. This is the future of the sm line.
Pintle mount in the firing arc of the turret at the rear is a bit odd. Rule of cool I guess. Maybe the turret has got a WW1 bi-plane style interrupter gear to stop it shooting the pintle gunner in the back of the head.
s plain to literally everyone that Primaris have a separate design schema from original marines, and that this new exosuit is even more of a move away. Not having the exactly correct definitions to describe it doesn't mean they aren't observing something real.
they do sure but only as much as every unit does. is the Invictor that much differant from a Dreadknight? whatever your view on the DK, (and much of the complaints about it would have been nullied if it had a cockpit assmbly like this new walker does) it makes sense that new space marine units might borrow from specialist designs fielded and tested by specialist m,arine detachments.
s plain to literally everyone that Primaris have a separate design schema from original marines, and that this new exosuit is even more of a move away. Not having the exactly correct definitions to describe it doesn't mean they aren't observing something real.
they do sure but only as much as every unit does. is the Invictor that much differant from a Dreadknight? whatever your view on the DK, (and much of the complaints about it would have been nullied if it had a cockpit assmbly like this new walker does) it makes sense that new space marine units might borrow from specialist designs fielded and tested by specialist m,arine detachments.
as for the rest of things well..
Is this
really that differant from this
It's not much differant then this
Those are pretty bad things to compare. The DreadKnight is already a breakaway from normal space marine aesthetics. And the Intercessor is not very different, but everything else Primaris is.
I don't think anyone should compare the design to the dreadknight. The Dreadknight is a horrible design. The new one that the marine is riding in actually seems plausible and more inline with 40k than the dreadknight ever did.
Gothic design seems to be exiting for marines in general which sucks cause its a gorgeous design.
Yeah, I don't see any reason why GW would randomly reverse that decision. If you like a new hover tank, you would just stick old models in it, instead of buying new ones. That's bad for GW's bottom line.
I don't mean this as a critique, but the Primaris thing is real and I don't see any change of that, ever. It's best to just forget about it and let that discussion end.
(PS: and house rule your local games with buddies to whatever makes friggin' sense)
Elbows wrote: Yeah, I don't see any reason why GW would randomly reverse that decision. If you like a new hover tank, you would just stick old models in it, instead of buying new ones. That's bad for GW's bottom line.
I don't mean this as a critique, but the Primaris thing is real and I don't see any change of that, ever. It's best to just forget about it and let that discussion end.
(PS: and house rule your local games with buddies to whatever makes friggin' sense)
GW could have sold a new tac marine kit just fine. They're already doing it with CSM, and its doing great, despite the unit being bad.
Asherian Command wrote: I don't think anyone should compare the design to the dreadknight. The Dreadknight is a horrible design. The new one that the marine is riding in actually seems plausible and more inline with 40k than the dreadknight ever did.
Gothic design seems to be exiting for marines in general which sucks cause its a gorgeous design.
ohh I agree, I only brought up the dreadnought because it's essentially an exo-walker which a marine pilots within it. themeaticly they have similarites. and I'd argue the new walker is essentially GW looking as response to the DK and saying "ohh, so you'd prefer this? ok here you are"
and yeah the gothic style of space marines seems to be gone, however you didn't see a lot of gothic influence in space marines outside the elite units. that said the gothic influence on the ARTWORK is long gone sadly
Pintle mount in the firing arc of the turret at the rear is a bit odd. Rule of cool I guess. Maybe the turret has got a WW1 bi-plane style interrupter gear to stop it shooting the pintle gunner in the back of the head.
It's a strange design choice and seems like the MO for primaris tanks - overcrowded with weapons.
It looks like the turret has a targeting lens thing between the two stubbers, I'd probably do a conversion and put the pintle gun barrel there and make it a 3 stubber turret.
My biggest complaint however is the massive amount stubbers. What is the deal with this? Is there a reason as to why Heavy Bolters wouldn't have worked?
1a. Why did they think of putting foam on the roll cage to protect the power armored pilot but not armor?
1b. Why did they design a vehicle where any center mass shot will hit its least armored point?
2. This kit is going to make the first bits maker to create an armored plate for the dreadnot a fair chunk of change.
Side Notes:
A light armored and fast but traditional dreadnought is something they have never done. Why didn't they just do that? Honestly, why didn't they? Nobody would of found that controversial.
There is no way you could do anything useful in that dreadnot with a throttle and a joystick. So its a pretty big tech downgrade from a dreadnought. Way to go Cawl.
It will probably have rules that will force the people that hate them to buy and use them to be meta and I enjoy that.
Everyone keeps acting like the DASWBA chapters are snow flaky after we switch to primaris. Even with sc getting the rubicon treatment they lose a lot. Sanguine guard baal pred, terminator armor storm raven , sw dreds libby dreads, wolf flyer . DA speeder variants bikes actual assault troops nephilem. I personally dislike the direction GW is moving in. I play DW and that codex has primaris shoe horned in to a sad degree. Just feels like a big loss of some really cool units in favor of buy our new gak. Oh and blacktemlars. No more scouts means no more neophyts. And where are the grey knights in all of this poorly writen rehaul of all new bland marines?
Oh an landraiders are going away.odd choice since t carries custodes but cant fit primarines
Pintle mount in the firing arc of the turret at the rear is a bit odd. Rule of cool I guess. Maybe the turret has got a WW1 bi-plane style interrupter gear to stop it shooting the pintle gunner in the back of the head.
It's a strange design choice and seems like the MO for primaris tanks - overcrowded with weapons.
It looks like the turret has a targeting lens thing between the two stubbers, I'd probably do a conversion and put the pintle gun barrel there and make it a 3 stubber turret.
Not a bad idea. You'd lose the ability to fire at the dead zone directly in front (to my mind if not in the rules), but then there's always ramming speed!
"The reason you're seeing so many heavy stubbers in the new models is because long thing barrels don't make the transfer into resin well. They're trying to make it harder to recast their new and more expensive models. Same reason your seeing so many more antennas along with more clutter(gear wise) on models too."
Elbows wrote: ... , but the Primaris thing is real...
Nonsense. I refuse to believe that Primaris Marines are anything but elaborate conversions with ProCreate.
But cowboy hats on not-dreadnoughts are codex legit, amirite
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Togusa wrote: I heard an interesting thing on the reddits!
"The reason you're seeing so many heavy stubbers in the new models is because long thing barrels don't make the transfer into resin well. They're trying to make it harder to recast their new and more expensive models. Same reason your seeing so many more antennas along with more clutter(gear wise) on models too."
Anyone think this could really be the case?
If it is the reason, and I sincerely doubt it is, they underestimate the abilities of motivated crafters (and also black market recasters).
Resin tank type 3d printers can already produce fine & difficult to cast components, a route I have taken to make my own custom resin shoulderpads with moulded emblems. While not practical for entire kits at this stage (though the tech is getting better and cheaper all the time), it's close to pennies per print to repro the harder to cast bits.
No offense, but other resin companies don't really struggle so much with straight barrels - unlike Forgeworld. That's a fun conspiracy theory though. It also assumes people are in capable of slapping some brass rod onto an aftermarket mini, etc.
Togusa wrote: I heard an interesting thing on the reddits!
"The reason you're seeing so many heavy stubbers in the new models is because long thing barrels don't make the transfer into resin well. They're trying to make it harder to recast their new and more expensive models. Same reason your seeing so many more antennas along with more clutter(gear wise) on models too."
Anyone think this could really be the case?
They're wrong. Recasters are using plastic now and other resin companies make higher quality models than forgeworld.
It is 'properly armoured'... The pilot is wearing power armor, which conveys the same save as a dreadnought gets, so it's presumably of similar resilience to a dreadnought casing.
Which isn't new justification, by the way... GW used similar logic way back in the day when transports counted as open-topped if models fired out of roof hatches, unless the occupants were in power armor.
insaniak wrote: It is 'properly armoured'... The pilot is wearing power armor, which conveys the same save as a dreadnought gets, so it's presumably of similar resilience to a dreadnought casing.
Which isn't new justification, by the way... GW used similar logic way back in the day when transports counted as open-topped if models fired out of roof hatches, unless the occupants were in power armor.
Forget mere hatches; observe the Land Speeder (all incarnations) – it has never been ‘open topped’ despite a couple of versions having the pilot’s feet literally dangling outside the vehicle…
NivlacSupreme wrote: Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
Assuming no one answered this, it's for the bird's sake, not the Marine.
To the Planet of Agua Freea deployed a strange marine one day, Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to say, No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip The strange Marine among them had a big iron on his hip, Big iron on his hip
Even on a basic transport GW can't help themselves but put 3 different weapon systems on it so it takes 5 minutes to resolve shooting every turn while not actually contributing anything because it's S4 garbage.
Everyone so miserable haha, I really like the new stuff with exception of the new walker which I am not a fan of. The new eliminators and infiltrators are just great models and I will be buying more of both despite having them from the shadowspear set.
I'm terms of books in really looking forward to getting my hands on the codex and all of the individual books as well. I think I might buy the digital enhanced versions so I don't have to worry about amendments etc
the dred is built with "sound deadening" materials, have you ever hit anything with an exposed roll cage, let's just say its loud. so "foam" on the cage makes sense.
I like the holstered heavy bolter but I'm gonna try to model the fist actually grasping it. maybe it'll be the Invictor with no name?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote:Even on a basic transport GW can't help themselves but put 3 different weapon systems on it so it takes 5 minutes to resolve shooting every turn while not actually contributing anything because it's S4 garbage.
so you dont use different colored dice for each weapon? it really cuts down on time, unless you are measuring/deciding/shooting each weapon at a different target, which just sounds tedious.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Does anybody else find it funny that the enormous transhuman in a suit of power armour still wears a leather glove in order for his bird to sit on his arm?
Assuming no one answered this, it's for the bird's sake, not the Marine.
2. Dreadnoughts I get, the pilots are near or sometimes over the point of death, knights, sentinels I get, their pilots are mere humans in a horrific and deadly galaxy. Why would a healthy supersoldier get into a walker like this, wearing his own power armour? It's a total waste of resource not to have brother smith back on the ground, in his amazing armour, with his amazing gun, whilst some chapter serf and a bunch of servitors operate this vehicle as support.
The grey knights got all of the baby carriers, so the regular marines, being an older army, get strollers.
Anyone else notice the fantastic new dedicated transport for primaris does not actually have doors on the side like just about every other marine transport...
On the whole grim dark thing I'm gonna be that guy and say unless you were playing in the 90s you might not 'get it' 40k was mark gibbons art work. Today its bolter porn and more mainstream... our group just keep the darker setting in our heads
mortar_crew wrote: Why on Earth do they insist to load vehicules for the new Mankind's finest with
low ap guard rear echellon/militia grade weapons?
Stubbers?!
I mean I like stubbers, but then I play Renegade militia.
Not Primaris.
I could be misremembering this, but in one of his Vox cast appearances didn't Jess say something about wishing they had used Stubbers more widely in past Imperial kits? Along with the AdMech maybe the design team is using the Primaris line to try and rehabilitate the (in there eyes)long neglected Stubber?
I can see it working on 'it is so silly that it is cool' level for some people,
Pretty much this. Same reason I like Logan's sleigh. It's utterly ridiculous, and so long as you aren't trying to take the setting seriously, that works fine.
Yeah, see, I've never bought into the idea that the only approach is a straight up binary of "either it's super-serial, or WHACKADOODLEDANDY anything goes wahey!". You can have dumb, and crazy, and so-bad-its-good without devolving into Logan Claus and McCree Battleframes. But that's what's confusing to me - sure, Logan Claus and Centurions and the Dreadknight had their fans and defenders, but the general consensus for each was pretty firmly that they were laughable nonsense, whereas this time loads of folk seem to love this particular dumbass idea.
I suppose the company's audience really has changed over the last few years.
Latro_ wrote: Anyone else notice the fantastic new dedicated transport for primaris does not actually have doors on the side like just about every other marine transport...
It doesn't appear to have any doors... It has an open tray for a back end.
Latro_ wrote: Anyone else notice the fantastic new dedicated transport for primaris does not actually have doors on the side like just about every other marine transport...
It doesn't appear to have any doors... It has an open tray for a back end.
Pfff... they're hover tank, the floor is the door, just fly up a bit and open wide. You also get the "dramatic entry" bonus point!
I've really liked the Primaris infantry but I haven't been liking their vehicles as much. Maybe it's just that I don't like things that are too different and eventually I'll start to like them?
Like many I don't understand all the Heavy Stubbers. Seems like Heavy Bolters would be both more effective and make more sense logistically. Maybe in a few years when they've covered everything Imperial in Heavy Stubbers they won't seem weird.
I don't hate the transport, but I was hoping that they were going to make a version of the Repulsor without the turret as that is the part of the Repulsor that I don't like. The turrent placement on the new transport is kind of odd.
For the recon dread-suit thing I wish they had gone a little bit more towards the Sentinel design to help distinguish it from Dreadnoughts. The Heavy Bolter pistol is a little too anime fore my tastes but I can see why people would like it. I do like the missile pod. This is probably my least favorite Primaris model.
Hopefully I don't sound too down on this release. I'm not enraged by it or anything, it's just not my cup of tea. To each their own.
I do like the White Scars model, and I think the Chapter-specific splat books are probably going to be a good thing. I'm glad Marines are getting more attacks when they charge or are charged. I like the mechanics that work when a unit is both charged or gets charged. Mechanics that only work on the charge reinforce the turn-based nature of the game and makes it feel less immersive to me. Feels bad when your elite melee unit is running towards their melee unit, then stands around taking a breather while the enemy closes the gap and charges your dudes. Having things trigger irregardless of who charged makes things feel more fluid to me.
Looks like you can also take rockets on top of the new transport. Maybe you can get rid of most of the stubbers on the transport and new walker with different weapon options.
I think I might know the reason for stubbers up the wazoo.
Weight saving. Doesn't a heavy stubber weigh a lot less than a heavy bolter, so giving it upgraded ammo means it's got the same penetration for a little raw damage, but carry much more ammo.
With the infiltrators needing to work behind enemy lines, more ammo surely isn't a bad thing? Also 12" extra range is nice too I suppose...
Galef wrote: Regarding BA/DA being supplements, think of it this way:
Take out EVERYTHING in the current Codices that is shared in the main Marine book. I'd suspect what's left wouldn't be more than a half dozen or so pages more than the upcoming supplements, which look to be AT LEAST 50-100 pages each.
You're telling me that BAs DAs and SWs need over 100+ pages just for their unique stuff? There are whole non-Imperial factions that don't need that many pages
-
DA and BA had codex supplement to the space marine codex during the 3rd edition : back then they only had specific rules (the deathwing/ravenwing and compagny of the dead), but almost no specific units (I think BA only had the predator baal and maybe the furioso), and a few characters. I.E. : they weren't too different from the normal space marine. This is what is going to happen with those new codex supplement : just some rules and some characters, and fluff, but no or almost no specific unit.
I just checked my DA codex, and counted : I find 51 pages with units datasheet in total, with 17 of those pages of datasheets that are specific to the DA (and I didn't count deathwing tartaros or things like that, that just have a name change). And I'm not counting the rules, the fluff. So if you think DA/BA/SW can have the same treatment as White Scars or Imperial Fist you are deluding yourself.
Dr. Mills wrote: I think I might know the reason for stubbers up the wazoo.
Weight saving. Doesn't a heavy stubber weigh a lot less than a heavy bolter, so giving it upgraded ammo means it's got the same penetration for a little raw damage, but carry much more ammo.
With the infiltrators needing to work behind enemy lines, more ammo surely isn't a bad thing? Also 12" extra range is nice too I suppose...
Heavy stubber = 40k equivalent of a modern heavy mg, not overly stealthy or quiet to fire is my only concern on the design.
Dr. Mills wrote: I think I might know the reason for stubbers up the wazoo.
Weight saving. Doesn't a heavy stubber weigh a lot less than a heavy bolter, so giving it upgraded ammo means it's got the same penetration for a little raw damage, but carry much more ammo.
With the infiltrators needing to work behind enemy lines, more ammo surely isn't a bad thing? Also 12" extra range is nice too I suppose...
Heavy stubber = 40k equivalent of a modern heavy mg, not overly stealthy or quiet to fire is my only concern on the design.
And a heavy bolter or autocannon is? Lascannon might be silent (probably not actually) but they are visible-spectrum lightshows. I believe the idea is that you approach silently from an unexpected direction, unleash hell for five minutes, then fade away, again in the ‘wrong’ direction but a different one than the one you came in on.
That said, three HMGs on a light transport is very SoE so if I ever buy one I’m painting it desert pink.
OK alot of complaining about getting new stuff and rebalancing which we needed. Here is a rebuttal to some common complaints.
1. The it is not grimdark complaint. No the new sm are not grimdark they are meant to be new, tactical and different from the other grimdark factions like chaos and sisters of battle. The oldest complaint I can remember is chaos is just spikey sm, now they are genetically better and more tactical while chaos is deamonically empowered and grimdark AF.
2. The not-dread: don't like it, don't get it. I'm not.
3. The suppliments are too small for sw, da or Ba. There is no mention of suppliment sizes (the hard cover suppliments look thick in the pictures to me) and as mentioned before by other people "once you take out the universal units there is not much left". So it's possible that even chapters with their own codexes may get a reboot. As a SW player I hope so as we are not a competitive faction atm and would love some new stratagems, sagas, formations, company tactics and primarius characters (also since everyone gets +1 attack blood claws could get +1 strength aswell). Also suppliments may include multiple chapters, we just dont know yet.
4. Primarius are taking over: sadly looks like but on fb when asked if it's happening they replied "old marines are still there with new abilities" idk if that is to primarius as well. But we will see.
5. Bloat for the bloat god: sadly looks like but remember people been screaming for a primarius rhino for ages and primarius only chapters do need more options and much of it is overriding something that already exists so not adding to much.
6. It's meant to be the rise of chaos atm so where is the Traitor guard codex? :( they have already moved back to the start and do loyalist again :(
7. At the start of 8th they said "no more taking multiple books to have a game" now there is campaign suppliments, main book, chapter suppliments, rule book etc. :(
I just hope the digital copy can be bundled into 1 codex including the suppliment.
8. Why stubbers and not heavy bolters: lighter, less recoil and people wanted a cheap transport not a mobile rank and that is what you got. If it was heavy bolsters it would cost more points to be bslsnced. Can't have cake and blow it up too.
Ps there is a leaked image with angels of death rule that includes know no fear, bolter drill and shock assault.
Zuri Prime wrote: Not too excited about the supplements, looks like a needless cash grab.
Not going to lap this one up like some other are, GW is returning to its greedy roots.
The SM codex is already £5 more than normal codexes and with all the new units that would get worse not better with the additional bloat.
Taking out all those UM-specific datasheets that I'm never going to use to make it smaller and cheaper would suit me fine. If at some later point I am tempted into buying the IF splatbook then that will be my choice.
At this point my view is that they will have to make the splatbooks very appealing for me to bother, so I may end up spending less than I would have with a rehash of the old format.
IMHO: a "pistolised heavy bolter" handled by a powerfist is Ork-level of stupidity/sillyness.
A powerfist probably only has two modes: open and close (pick up/crush) and nowhere near the dexterity needed to control a pistol grip, not mentioning the position of the arm making it almost impossible for the pilot to aim using LOS.
Why not have the bolter either underslung or permanently mounted (with targetting systems) on the rig?
This is not "rule of cool" - but LEGO-design.
That said, the new "sound-dampened" (stupid fluff trying to compensate for bad design) dread will however be a cood base for conversions (power loaders, etc.) - and the "pistolised heavy bolter" will look good on the back of an Ogryn.
I feel the Primaris-era is GW trying to wash away some of the grim darkness - making marines more kid friendly (the marines are vat grown instead of kidnapped and brainwashed/growth hormone treated youngsters, etc. - and the dreads no longer crippled veterans).
A bit like the Sigmarines in AOS who never die™ and just respawn...
kendoka wrote: IMHO: a "pistolised heavy bolter" handled by a powerfist is Ork-level of stupidity/sillyness.
A powerfist probably only has two modes: open and close (pick up/crush) and nowhere near the dexterity needed to control a pistol grip, not mentioning the position of the arm making it almost impossible for the pilot to aim using LOS.
Why not have the bolter either underslung or permanently mounted (with targetting systems) on the rig?
This is not "rule of cool" - but LEGO-design.
That said, the new "sound-dampened" (stupid fluff trying to compensate for bad design) dread will however be a cood base for conversions (power loaders, etc.) - and the "pistolised heavy bolter" will look good on the back of an Ogryn.
I feel the Primaris-era is GW trying to wash away some of the grim darkness - making marines more kid friendly (the marines are vat grown instead of kidnapped and brainwashed/growth hormone treated youngsters, etc. - and the dreads no longer crippled veterans).
A bit like the Sigmarines in AOS who never die™ and just respawn...
Existing chapters still recruit the same way they used to but just make primaris marines, they're still stolen kids abused and mutilated into soldiers. The first wave of primaris were made from possible traitorous stock, released into a galaxy radically different from what they were expecting.
The redemptor dread had a crippled occupant who knowingly gets put into it, only to be cooked alive with radiation poisoning.
kendoka wrote: IMHO: a "pistolised heavy bolter" handled by a powerfist is Ork-level of stupidity/sillyness.
A powerfist probably only has two modes: open and close (pick up/crush) and nowhere near the dexterity needed to control a pistol grip, not mentioning the position of the arm making it almost impossible for the pilot to aim using LOS.
Why not have the bolter either underslung or permanently mounted (with targetting systems) on the rig?
This is not "rule of cool" - but LEGO-design.
That said, the new "sound-dampened" (stupid fluff trying to compensate for bad design) dread will however be a cood base for conversions (power loaders, etc.) - and the "pistolised heavy bolter" will look good on the back of an Ogryn.
I feel the Primaris-era is GW trying to wash away some of the grim darkness - making marines more kid friendly (the marines are vat grown instead of kidnapped and brainwashed/growth hormone treated youngsters, etc. - and the dreads no longer crippled veterans).
A bit like the Sigmarines in AOS who never die™ and just respawn...
Why would a powerfist probably only have 2 modes? I get not liking the model, but deciding how you think a powerfist works and then saying this is silly because of that headcanon is odd to me. And ‘rule of cool’ is very much a personal subjective rule anyway.
Also, there’s already a Primaris dread which is still, as far as I know, a crippled veteran. This isn’t even technically a dread.
Zuri Prime wrote: Not too excited about the supplements, looks like a needless cash grab.
Not going to lap this one up like some other are, GW is returning to its greedy roots.
They literally said no more managing tuns of books at the launch of 8th. Now its just as bad as 7th. Idk why players are so loyal to such a terrible game system.
Because:
1) GW continues to make top end models
2) The Lore is one of the richest and deepest of any of the other wargames. Heck you can spend a fortune and spend years reading codex, rule books, battletomes and novels from BL.
3) The artwork inspires peoples imaginations
4) GW is big and popular - big thing this - so you can collect for the two main games and pretty much travel anywhere and if there's a game club that plays miniature wargames they will likely play 40K and AoS (bit weaker on AoS but its growing super fast)
Gotta love convincing yourself you're not getting ripped off.
It’s not really being ripped off. I know the cost of the item, I am aware of the comparative value of money. I earn a good wage so I choose to spend money on these items. Nobody is pulling the wool over my eyes or hacking my account to gain access to my funds, I am making an informed choice as a consumer. If you dislike the status quo so much... why not find a new hobby, one that aggravates you less?
"The Space Marines are also set to receive a new codex. Not just any codex, mind, but the best codex we’ve ever made, a tome worthy of Roboute Guilliman himself! First of all, the datasheets included in the book will be available to all the First Founding Chapters and their successors, so whichever Space Marine Chapter(s) hold your allegiance, you’ll be able to use the full spectrum of units available to the Adeptus Astartes – even if you’re a Blood Angels, Space Wolves or Dark Angels player!"
Fething Guilliman telling warriors how to fight like soldiers when what the imperium needs are warriors like the sons of Russ. This sounds like space wolves can take tactical marines and scouts as troops. This is not the ways of the warriors of Fenris.
I do like the Shock Assault rule as it benefits us SW well depending on how they deal with the suppliment.
The walker might look a bit better if the sections next to the seat were far thinner. Arms mounted directly on the sides of the cage, even. Just something that looked like the original dreadnought.
The only two aspects of Primaris I hate are their lack of options for characters and their vehicles (the hover transport doesn’t even look that bad in the art, I just think they should be able to ride land raiders).
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
A powerfist probably only has two modes: open and close (pick up/crush) and nowhere near the dexterity needed to control a pistol grip, not mentioning the position of the arm making it almost impossible for the pilot to aim using LOS.
The powerfist rather obviously is capable of using the 'pistol', since it is equipped with it.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
ulfhednir86 wrote: [size=12]
3. The suppliments are too small for sw, da or Ba. There is no mention of suppliment sizes (the hard cover suppliments look thick in the pictures to me) and as mentioned before by other people "once you take out the universal units there is not much left". So it's possible that even chapters with their own codexes may get a reboot. As a SW player I hope so as we are not a competitive faction atm and would love some new stratagems, sagas, formations, company tactics and primarius characters (also since everyone gets +1 attack blood claws could get +1 strength aswell). Also suppliments may include multiple chapters, we just dont know yet.
I have already said that a few time but I will reiterate : in the DA book 33 % of the datasheet pages (17 pages out of 51, and yes that's 33%, or a 1/3) are DA specific. I'm pretty sure this is even higher in the SW book. So the idea that there is not much left once you take the universal unit out is totally false.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
Again, 2 waves of primaris releases. 1 wave of chaos marines if you want to be generous and include them, despite it being a refresh of 15+ year old core kits.
Otherwise we have:
Death guard (too diverse to be 'just marines')
Stealer cults
Custodes
Knights
Chaos knights
Orks
Daemons x2
Marines have a large volume of historic kits and needed a large sleuth to replace them, not that others don't. But you're just wrong I'm afraid.
*shrug* As a recent convert to the BA I'm not that bothered either way. But ifGW continue with the separate dex system for them its going to be an increasingly large(and more expensive) book to include all the new Primaris stuff as well as there unique units.
Latro_ wrote: Anyone else notice the fantastic new dedicated transport for primaris does not actually have doors on the side like just about every other marine transport...
It doesn't appear to have any doors... It has an open tray for a back end.
presumably the back end is the samer as the backend on the repulsor. or something similer.
The idea is going the right way for me. One codex for all the units (common to all chapters) with the common stratagems , relics ,warlord traits etc and supplements for every chapter with chapter specific relics, strats etc. Its easier to balance and fix point costs for common units all at once
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
Again, 2 waves of primaris releases. 1 wave of chaos marines if you want to be generous and include them, despite it being a refresh of 15+ year old core kits.
Otherwise we have:
Death guard (too diverse to be 'just marines')
Stealer cults
Custodes
Knights
Chaos knights
Orks
Daemons x2
Marines have a large volume of historic kits and needed a large sleuth to replace them, not that others don't. But you're just wrong I'm afraid.
Nope. Let's look what was in those releases shall we? Rather than by single blob of release as you'll see those SM kits outnumber the rest of the other Xenos kits combined. GSC I can give you, as that was a big release but everything else has either been nothing, one or two models or barely a blip of thing no player of the army asked for (Orks). Imperium as a whole is getting everything whilst everything else is languishing behind. Where are my auxiliaries for Tau? They have literally loads of client races working for them but we only have two on the tabletop. Where are new Aspect Warriors? Even new temples FFS. If GW can pull SM stuff out of their collective backsides then they should have no problem with other races.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
Again, 2 waves of primaris releases. 1 wave of chaos marines if you want to be generous and include them, despite it being a refresh of 15+ year old core kits.
Otherwise we have:
Death guard (too diverse to be 'just marines')
Stealer cults
Custodes
Knights
Chaos knights
Orks
Daemons x2
Marines have a large volume of historic kits and needed a large sleuth to replace them, not that others don't. But you're just wrong I'm afraid.
Nope. Let's look what was in those releases shall we? Rather than by single blob of release as you'll see those SM kits outnumber the rest of the other Xenos kits combined. GSC I can give you, as that was a big release but everything else has either been nothing, one or two models or barely a blip of thing no player of the army asked for (Orks). Imperium as a whole is getting everything whilst everything else is languishing behind. Where are my auxiliaries for Tau? They have literally loads of client races working for them but we only have two on the tabletop. Where are new Aspect Warriors? Even new temples FFS. If GW can pull SM stuff out of their collective backsides then they should have no problem with other races.
What auxiliaries would you add to tau that are unique and the army needs? Aspect warriors I agree need a rehash. But you're moving the goal post from marines to imperium to fit your argument.
Marines until recently got (in their main wave):
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain
Apothecary
Redemptor
Repulsor
Inceptors
Intercessors
Hellblasters
Repulsor
Aggressors
Which admittedly is a fairly decent amount for what I'd essentially a brand new army. But it's still comparable to the stealer cults release, death guard release, chaos marine release and orks wasn't far behind (whether people asked for what they made is irrelevant).
The new transport is very interesting. I wonder if it'll have a firing platform on it, as the back looks like there are grab bars where a marine might stand. If so, hellblasters could do great stuff... and also explode because they'd get no rerolls.
Let's hope there isn't a dumb rule like only allowing vanguard marines in there. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Aggressors didn't fit, like how terminators don't fit in a rhino.
The +1 attack on the charge thing is awesome, and not just for imperial marines. It's particularly cool for nurgle guys equipped with flails of corruption, which give you D3 attacks per attack on your profile.
I wouldn't worry about it being "Vanguard only". Phobos Armor is the stripped down variation and for once it makes sense to have power armor piloting vehicles because of it!
I feel the Primaris-era is GW trying to wash away some of the grim darkness - making marines more kid friendly (the marines are vat grown instead of kidnapped and brainwashed/growth hormone treated youngsters, etc. - and the dreads no longer crippled veterans).
They literally released a video yesterday showing kids being recruited and turned into Primaris Marines...
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
Again, 2 waves of primaris releases. 1 wave of chaos marines if you want to be generous and include them, despite it being a refresh of 15+ year old core kits.
Otherwise we have:
Death guard (too diverse to be 'just marines')
Stealer cults
Custodes
Knights
Chaos knights
Orks
Daemons x2
Marines have a large volume of historic kits and needed a large sleuth to replace them, not that others don't. But you're just wrong I'm afraid.
Nope. Let's look what was in those releases shall we? Rather than by single blob of release as you'll see those SM kits outnumber the rest of the other Xenos kits combined. GSC I can give you, as that was a big release but everything else has either been nothing, one or two models or barely a blip of thing no player of the army asked for (Orks). Imperium as a whole is getting everything whilst everything else is languishing behind. Where are my auxiliaries for Tau? They have literally loads of client races working for them but we only have two on the tabletop. Where are new Aspect Warriors? Even new temples FFS. If GW can pull SM stuff out of their collective backsides then they should have no problem with other races.
What auxiliaries would you add to tau that are unique and the army needs? Aspect warriors I agree need a rehash. But you're moving the goal post from marines to imperium to fit your argument.
Marines until recently got (in their main wave):
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain
Apothecary
Redemptor
Repulsor
Inceptors
Intercessors
Hellblasters
Repulsor
Aggressors
Which admittedly is a fairly decent amount for what I'd essentially a brand new army. But it's still comparable to the stealer cults release, death guard release, chaos marine release and orks wasn't far behind (whether people asked for what they made is irrelevant).
Don't forget various Primaris Lieutenants - 2 of which are on general release, 2 more via specific boxes, and that's before we get to the LE ones.
And I notice we're getting another one in this wave, if you check the file name on the Reiver.
You're also discounting E2B versions of those kits, and the various models in Shadowspear. Oh, and in terms of boxes, the BA/DA/SW versions of kits...
Client races for the Tau? Well, new sculpts and options - possibly an entire Merc 'dex - for the Kroot would be a starting point. Additional Vespid options, perhaps? Demiurg are a possibility, though maybe less so now we're seeing Squats back in Necro. I don't think the Niccassar work on a planet. Gue'vasa have been an option Tau players have been after for years. And as we're talking client races for Tau, this is an option to bring in a squad or two of anything they feel like, and it can be justified as a newly weaponised race...
As an aside, if people are going to compare all the releases for Xenos to just the Primaris releases - which we've seen a number of times in this thread - then the comparison is off. You either compare individual factions to Primaris - in which case only the GSC measure up at all, for Xenos factions - or you compare Xenos releases to Chaos releases to Imperial releases.
And if you do that, one leg of the tripod is substantially shorter than the other two.
Yay I called the walker right, now we have that psychic video my other prediction that Sigmar will open the chamber of all psychic Primaris marines to repla...support the Grey Knights.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
Again, 2 waves of primaris releases. 1 wave of chaos marines if you want to be generous and include them, despite it being a refresh of 15+ year old core kits.
Otherwise we have:
Death guard (too diverse to be 'just marines')
Stealer cults
Custodes
Knights
Chaos knights
Orks
Daemons x2
Marines have a large volume of historic kits and needed a large sleuth to replace them, not that others don't. But you're just wrong I'm afraid.
Nope. Let's look what was in those releases shall we? Rather than by single blob of release as you'll see those SM kits outnumber the rest of the other Xenos kits combined. GSC I can give you, as that was a big release but everything else has either been nothing, one or two models or barely a blip of thing no player of the army asked for (Orks). Imperium as a whole is getting everything whilst everything else is languishing behind. Where are my auxiliaries for Tau? They have literally loads of client races working for them but we only have two on the tabletop. Where are new Aspect Warriors? Even new temples FFS. If GW can pull SM stuff out of their collective backsides then they should have no problem with other races.
What auxiliaries would you add to tau that are unique and the army needs? Aspect warriors I agree need a rehash. But you're moving the goal post from marines to imperium to fit your argument.
Marines until recently got (in their main wave):
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain
Apothecary
Redemptor
Repulsor
Inceptors
Intercessors
Hellblasters
Repulsor
Aggressors
Which admittedly is a fairly decent amount for what I'd essentially a brand new army. But it's still comparable to the stealer cults release, death guard release, chaos marine release and orks wasn't far behind (whether people asked for what they made is irrelevant).
Don't forget the starter set kits and Shadow Spear box kits. Its basically chaos and imperium releases now {GSC got a good release}, Blackstone Fortress with its expansions is pretty much Imperium and Chaos.. future releases this year are likely to be SOB and The Lost and The Damned. Its great that GW are adding and expanding factions, some of the models look amazing, but its crap that they aren't bringing Xenos factions in new directions as well. I'm presuming they will in the future but 40k release wise is pretty un-interesting if you don't like Chaos/Imperium. .I mean they have Blackstone Fortress and Killteam as games to do small releases for Xenos factions but they don't use them - A squad box of Eldar Corsairs for Killteam, A lictor maybe ..
I'm expecting them to take the existing Xenos factions in new directions rather than just redoing existing kits but I'm not holding my breath..
The pimarines feel like a different army than minimarines. I like the design of basic guys, but all hover tanks is meh. Even in fluff they are losing some grimdark. All of the geneseed flaws are fixed. So loss of black rage,and wolfen. Do the salamanders still turn ebony, RG pale? As i ranted earlier in this thread the new guys aren't thought out as to effects on long standing fluff and chapter units/tactics. Another iconic unit that hasn't been explained missing Drop Pods. The desire to get everybody to buy a whole new replacement army is a blatent D#@k move. Its all very turn the marines up to 11. They are perfect Nothing flawed.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: All of the geneseed flaws are fixed. So loss of black rage,and wolfen.
You're wrong.
Its been stated that none of thBA reinforcements suffer rage, on top of uncertain geneseed donation for these giant forces. Does anyone know if they are even getting loalist stock let alone decended from their primarch? I do hope im wrong and just doom saying. Because i don't like the new scifi marine style i prefer the spce fantasy style of marine. Just a personal preference. Can you point me towards current fluf examples of flawed primaris?
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: All of the geneseed flaws are fixed. So loss of black rage,and wolfen.
You're wrong.
Its been stated that none of thBA reinforcements suffer rage, on top of uncertain geneseed donation for these giant forces. Does anyone know if they are even getting loalist stock let alone decended from their primarch? I do hope im wrong and just doom saying. Because i don't like the new scifi marine style i prefer the spce fantasy style of marine. Just a personal preference. Can you point me towards current fluf examples of flawed primaris?
They aren't using any new gene-seed but new organs on these marines.
I personally love the fact marines are getting all the love, they are my primary faction and the coolest force in the 40k setting imho.
Quite excited to run my crimson fists as crimson fists rather than Deathwatch once the codex comes out. The impulsor looks far better with the rocket pod on the back and I will be doing that with mine.
I do echo other people's frustration with the whole stubber thing though, bolters are a marine think they should just be like the old marine tanks and just have storm bolters pintle mounted, if there are options to swap out for bolters I'll do it every time.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: All of the geneseed flaws are fixed. So loss of black rage,and wolfen.
You're wrong.
Its been stated that none of thBA reinforcements suffer rage, on top of uncertain geneseed donation for these giant forces. Does anyone know if they are even getting loalist stock let alone decended from their primarch? I do hope im wrong and just doom saying. Because i don't like the new scifi marine style i prefer the spce fantasy style of marine. Just a personal preference. Can you point me towards current fluf examples of flawed primaris?
The Blood Angels Codex states otherwise. The last entry in the timeline for that book implies that the Primaris Blood Angels suddenly started displaying the Black Rage. I fully expect the Blood Angels splatbook to have Primaris Death Company.
KurtAngle2 wrote: I think it's kinda insulting for other Xeno factions. I'm happy that Marines get an updated codex after 2 years (this sets a precedent for other codices updates I think) but the mere release of even new Marine models after only FIVE MONTHS from the last marine release whilst neglecting all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex is braindead at best.
What were the Genestealer Cults, the various Ork Buggies and the plastic Spiritseer then?
Presumably they, along with the Necron dude, would fall outside of the description of "all Xenos factions that have received NOTHING in the last few years apart from their Codex".
If we take that time period as 8th edition, I think that would mean Dark Eldar, Tau, Harlequins and Tyranids, off the top of my head, with two factions who have had exactly one character model (Necrons and Craftworlds).
Orks were, what, six or seven kits? GSC certainly got a decent release.
I repeat- IOW "Here you go, be happy with the scraps you've got. Be grateful we gave you anything."
What is it with people taking everything literally? Xenos, by comparison to SMs have gotten feth all this edition. Not literally, as they did get something but it is crumbs compared to the massive proverbial cake SMs got and are still getting.
Again, 2 waves of primaris releases. 1 wave of chaos marines if you want to be generous and include them, despite it being a refresh of 15+ year old core kits.
Otherwise we have:
Death guard (too diverse to be 'just marines')
Stealer cults
Custodes
Knights
Chaos knights
Orks
Daemons x2
Marines have a large volume of historic kits and needed a large sleuth to replace them, not that others don't. But you're just wrong I'm afraid.
Nope. Let's look what was in those releases shall we? Rather than by single blob of release as you'll see those SM kits outnumber the rest of the other Xenos kits combined. GSC I can give you, as that was a big release but everything else has either been nothing, one or two models or barely a blip of thing no player of the army asked for (Orks). Imperium as a whole is getting everything whilst everything else is languishing behind. Where are my auxiliaries for Tau? They have literally loads of client races working for them but we only have two on the tabletop. Where are new Aspect Warriors? Even new temples FFS. If GW can pull SM stuff out of their collective backsides then they should have no problem with other races.
What auxiliaries would you add to tau that are unique and the army needs? Aspect warriors I agree need a rehash. But you're moving the goal post from marines to imperium to fit your argument.
Marines until recently got (in their main wave):
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain
Apothecary
Redemptor
Repulsor
Inceptors
Intercessors
Hellblasters
Repulsor
Aggressors
Which admittedly is a fairly decent amount for what I'd essentially a brand new army. But it's still comparable to the stealer cults release, death guard release, chaos marine release and orks wasn't far behind (whether people asked for what they made is irrelevant).
Don't forget various Primaris Lieutenants - 2 of which are on general release, 2 more via specific boxes, and that's before we get to the LE ones.
And I notice we're getting another one in this wave, if you check the file name on the Reiver.
You're also discounting E2B versions of those kits, and the various models in Shadowspear. Oh, and in terms of boxes, the BA/DA/SW versions of kits...
Client races for the Tau? Well, new sculpts and options - possibly an entire Merc 'dex - for the Kroot would be a starting point. Additional Vespid options, perhaps? Demiurg are a possibility, though maybe less so now we're seeing Squats back in Necro. I don't think the Niccassar work on a planet. Gue'vasa have been an option Tau players have been after for years. And as we're talking client races for Tau, this is an option to bring in a squad or two of anything they feel like, and it can be justified as a newly weaponised race...
As an aside, if people are going to compare all the releases for Xenos to just the Primaris releases - which we've seen a number of times in this thread - then the comparison is off. You either compare individual factions to Primaris - in which case only the GSC measure up at all, for Xenos factions - or you compare Xenos releases to Chaos releases to Imperial releases.
And if you do that, one leg of the tripod is substantially shorter than the other two.
I'll not pursue this further beyond this statement, but you're happy to count duplicate releases of the same models (easy build > full kit, shadowspear marines > this release), you include one off lieutenant models for subfactions but decide the cryptek and spirit seer don't count.
For tau you listed some races, but what I asked was what roles and units do you want. Just insert x race or "whatever I want from other books" isn't a good answer.
Yes imperium gets more releases. But the entire conversation spouted from stating marines get more than anyone else, when they only have due to being the only faction with 2 full waves of support so far. I fully expect chaos marines will equal them with their next wave.
Xenos do need some more love, everyone knows that, but whinging about how unfair it is as a ratio of releases doesn't help anyone. It's well known the narrative for 8th was make chaos great and relevant again, which can only happen in a struggle against humanity as the protagonists for the bulk of the setting.
On topic - I'm quite excited for the scout walker, it's a bit clunky looking but I like the idea that none-corpses get to be inside of an armoured frame.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Blood Angels Codex states otherwise. The last entry in the timeline for that book implies that the Primaris Blood Angels suddenly started displaying the Black Rage. I fully expect the Blood Angels splatbook to have Primaris Death Company.
Did I miss where Blood Angels were in Codex: Space Marines?
Because right now, only the Chapters from C: SM are getting these 'expansions'.
If Primaris Death Company appear then literally all of my problems with Primaris Marines will disappear. It might make me buy more than the six of them I own.
I’d still love some actual melee options for HQs but at that point I’d kitbash them with the fun options and run it as one of the limited loadouts they get. It’s not like I play in tournaments.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: All of the geneseed flaws are fixed. So loss of black rage,and wolfen.
You're wrong.
Its been stated that none of thBA reinforcements suffer rage, on top of uncertain geneseed donation for these giant forces. Does anyone know if they are even getting loalist stock let alone decended from their primarch? I do hope im wrong and just doom saying. Because i don't like the new scifi marine style i prefer the spce fantasy style of marine. Just a personal preference. Can you point me towards current fluf examples of flawed primaris?
In the SW codex a bunch of inceptors fall to the curse of the wulfen, then proceed to bludgeon their enemies to death with those massive bolters they carry. I believe there's a line somewhere about Cawl not removing these flaws because they may be part of The Emperors plan for them. Obviously we're talking first founding big boy flaws here.
There isn’t really any reason to remove scouts/neophytes from all-Primaris armies. If the recruitment process is the same then they could have had scouts as usual and then implant the additional organs along with the black carapace.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Blood Angels Codex states otherwise. The last entry in the timeline for that book implies that the Primaris Blood Angels suddenly started displaying the Black Rage. I fully expect the Blood Angels splatbook to have Primaris Death Company.
Did I miss where Blood Angels were in Codex: Space Marines?
Because right now, only the Chapters from C: SM are getting these 'expansions'.
it's difficult to tell exactly what they're going to do. the Space Marine codex seems like it's going to be designed to work with every first founding chapter. In which case it makes separate codexes for he non-standard chapters somewhat unnecessary. However, the six splatbooks also lines up with the amount of first founding chapters in the current Codex.
I don't see Games Workshop passing up the opportunity to sell you two bucks to run a chapter rather than just one.
1.) Worst case, the transport has 2 storm bolters (assuming the sponsons aren't heavy bolters) and 3 heavy stubbers, which is quite a bit of anti-infantry firepower for a transport. Seems GW wants it to be somewhere in the region of a Wave Serpent, though I'd be surprised if it could carry more than 6 marines. Seems more like a Razorback than a Rhino, though most people field units of 5 Primaris rather than 10. As others have pointed out, different weapons are likely, making it even more of a Razorback equivalent.
OTOH, this could be a dual kit we're only seeing half of - the Razorback-ish half. Would not put it past GW, they like to stretch out these reveals.
2.) The fat bars on the dread are probably not foam, but reinforcing metal jackets, exactly like on the various other vehicles. Seems to be a common design element recently - the Dunerinder has tons of them.
3.) I hope the Salamanders Primaris is going to be the Chapter Master Tu'shan, I think it would be a way cooler model than another He'stan.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Blood Angels Codex states otherwise. The last entry in the timeline for that book implies that the Primaris Blood Angels suddenly started displaying the Black Rage. I fully expect the Blood Angels splatbook to have Primaris Death Company.
Did I miss where Blood Angels were in Codex: Space Marines?
Because right now, only the Chapters from C: SM are getting these 'expansions'.
it's difficult to tell exactly what they're going to do. the Space Marine codex seems like it's going to be designed to work with every first founding chapter. In which case it makes separate codexes for he non-standard chapters somewhat unnecessary. However, the six splatbooks also lines up with the amount of first founding chapters in the current Codex.
I don't see Games Workshop passing up the opportunity to sell you two bucks to run a chapter rather than just one.
First of all, the datasheets included in the book will be available to all the First Founding Chapters and their successors, so whichever Space Marine Chapter(s) hold your allegiance, you’ll be able to use the full spectrum of units available to the Adeptus Astartes – even if you’re a Blood Angels, Space Wolves or Dark Angels player!
They clearly consider the BA, SW, DA something other than splatbook material.
I suppose the intent is for those players to buy the kodak's as a stopgap and then get their updated codex later on when they come out if they come out. I am fine with that because it means that I'm likely to see the Imperial fists splatbook quicker.
If SW, BA and DA can get all the contents of the vanilla codex, then I really do not see any point for them having their own codices instead of just being supplements.
Crimson wrote: If SW, BA and DA can get all the contents of the vanilla codex, then I really do not see any point for them having their own codices instead of just being supplements.
Signature units, characters, lore--and all three have some unique vehicles that the main codex wouldn't.
Part of me is like "oh god, all my normal marines!" since they did a big release with the last codex of 8th of Devs/Assaults, and tacs the previous time before that... the other part of me has a hard time they'd update the old marines at all if they just planned on replacing them.
Crimson wrote: If SW, BA and DA can get all the contents of the vanilla codex, then I really do not see any point for them having their own codices instead of just being supplements.
Signature units, characters, lore--and all three have some unique vehicles that the main codex wouldn't.
Crimson wrote: If SW, BA and DA can get all the contents of the vanilla codex, then I really do not see any point for them having their own codices instead of just being supplements.
Signature units, characters, lore--and all three have some unique vehicles that the main codex wouldn't.
Yes. And those can be in a supplement book.
The line between a codex and supplement book in this context is purely a technicality. From the article (giving the three misfits access to all the datasheets in the SM Codex), when the next iteration of them come around, GW can save a ton of space just by saying 'see SM Codex' rather than reprinting all those datasheets.
The line between a codex and supplement book in this context is purely a technicality. From the article (giving the three misfits access to all the datasheets in the SM Codex), when the next iteration of them come around, GW can save a ton of space just by saying 'see SM Codex' rather than reprinting all those datasheets.
Crimson wrote: If SW, BA and DA can get all the contents of the vanilla codex, then I really do not see any point for them having their own codices instead of just being supplements.
Signature units, characters, lore--and all three have some unique vehicles that the main codex wouldn't.
Yes. And those can be in a supplement book.
Yep. And if the supplements are around 50-100 pages like it looks, that's more than enough for each Chapter's "Signature units, characters, lore--and unique vehicles". I really just don't understand people's distain/disbelief that BAs/DAs/SWs can't easily fit into one of these supplements. It's not only possible, but hopefully likely at this point. Each of those books is 144 pages. If you took out literally all lore/unit entries that are covered/shared in the Marine book, I'd be shocked if the remaining page count exceeded 100 pages, which would make them the idea size for supplements.
The ONLY complaint I can see being valid is the fact that all Chapters need 2 books now. But that's true of a ton of different armies right now.
).
that is a VERY gothic looking land raider. but it was 100% a paint job, there's no plastic bits on a land raider to get that look (sadly)
