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Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/07 20:29:53


Post by: Strat_N8


The following is now out of date with the release of the 9th edition codex. As before, many thanks to all who contributed!

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The following is intended to serve as a comprehensive primer for the Genestealer Cult ("GSC") faction with their 8th Edition codex, providing a broad overview of their units, abilities, stratagems, and the potential applications thereof. May it prove useful for any aspiring Primuses out there!

The current FAQ for the army can be found here. I will endeavor to keep this post updated as changes are made and make revisions as the game continues to evolve.

General Overview:

Strengths:
As a whole, the Genestealer Cults have many tools that allow them to set up favorable engagements, react to the opponent's actions, and reliably deliver threats. The faction also has a plethora of force multipliers to improve combat effectiveness of their units. The melee roster of the army, while somewhat fallen behind the 9th edition faction offerings, is still capable of delivering a solid punch with good weapon skill, armor piercing, and multi-damage options. The army's shooting capabilities are also fairly respectable once force multipliers are taken into account. Most of the faction's unique vehicles also tend to feature heavier weaponry than their counterparts and one of their transport options has the highly desirable open topped ability. The army tends to be fairly competent in securing secondary objective points that are based on positioning, thanks to a wide access to deep strike and good fast attack options.

Weaknesses

Genestealer Cult units tend to be priced similarly to more elite forces while having horde level defenses. As such they generally perform poorly with raw attrition tactics, as they simply can't absorb losses as well as a true horde. Fragility in general is a concern, as units tend to evaporate under sustained fire or prolonged combat which makes them poor at holding objectives (though offensively they have no problem taking objectives). Genestealer Cults also tend to give up lots of secondary objective points with their typical unit compositions. Armies that can deny deep strike (such as Infiltrator-heavy Marine compositions) are also a significant vulnerability for the army as it denies them one of their greatest strengths. Lastly, the army is very hungry for command points in the pre-game and early turns and may struggle to have enough available to do everything it needs.


Army Specific Rules:

Unquestioning Loyalty: Whenever a nearby GSC character suffers a wound but before damage is applied, on a 4+ an infantry model from a nearby unit with this rule (GSC player's choice) may cancel the wound (and any damage it may have inflicted) on behalf of the character and is slain instead. While this significantly helps mitigate the fragility of most GSC characters and provides a layer of protection against snipers, it does not discriminate between 1 wound infantry and multi-wound models - the loyal model is slain outright after intercepting the hit. This rule is useful as a final line of defense against snipers and other effects that can target characters directly, but shouldn't be taken as a license to be reckless.

Cult Ambush: The main army special rule for the Genestealer Cults, Cult Ambush was given an extensive overhaul from previous versions. Rather than roll on a table to see where units arrive, the 8th edition Codex version instead allows units to be deployed either on the table as an ambush token or underground in reserves if an infantry or bike unit. One of the more notable aspects of this division is that vehicle units can now benefit from Cult Ambush whereas before it was exclusively for infantry.
  • Deploying underground operates like a standard deep strike ability, allowing the selected infantry or biker unit to emerge anywhere on the table provided they remain 9’’ away from enemy units. Several stratagems modify how units emerge from underground in much the same way the old ambush table. While this is slightly weaker than the old table due to the added resource cost for the alternate deployment effects, it is infinitely more reliable. The army also has several tools which allow additional units to be moved into reserves to redeploy, bypassing some of the matched play restrictions on reserves. In 9th, this also allows units to be put into tactical reserves without having to pay command points.


  • Deploying in ambush causes the unit to be set up as an ambush marker within the Genestealer Cults deployment zone. Ambush markers are then revealed one at a time either at the beginning of the first movement phase (if the GSC player goes first) or the end of the first movement phase (if the opponent goes first). A unit deploying from a marker is set up so that one model is within 1’’ of the marker and the rest of the unit remains within the deployment zone. While the ambush markers are on the field, enemy units cannot end their movement or be set up within 9’’ of a given marker, making them a handy tool against certain armies that can deploy units far up the field on the first turn. Units that deploy via ambush marker are counted as having been set up on the table in Matched Play, so they do not take away from the number of units that may be set aside underground and do not suffer to-hit penalties from heavy weapons unless they move on their turn (Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good). Like deploying underground, there are several abilities that allow ambush markers to be moved around within the deployment zone before being revealed, making them very useful for setting up a denied flank deployment or counteracting one.


  • Brood Brothers: A lengthy rule that allows Genestealer Cults to include Astra Militarum detachments as allies in matched play despite not having any shared keywords. Such detachments have several restrictions:

    1. All units must replace their <regiment> keyword (or Militarum Tempestus keyword in the case of Scions) with the Brood Brothers keyword or alternatively gain the Brood Brothers keyword if they have neither. Such units cannot use <regiment> specific orders, <regiment> specific stratagems, or any AM relics (see below).

    2. The Brood Brothers detachment has no command benefits (it can never have CP refunded and does not benefit from subfaction traits).

    3. A character from a Brood Brothers detachment can never be selected as a warlord and no Brood Brothers character can be given relics.

    4. All units with the Brood Brothers keyword gain +1 leadership and the Unquestioning Loyalty ability. Note that while Brood Brothers gain the Unquestioning Loyalty rule, it only allows hits to be taken on behalf of characters with the Genestealer Cults faction keyword, so models can’t sacrifice themselves to negate wounds suffered by a Brood Brothers Astra Militarum character.

    5. Orders can only be issued to units without the Genestealer Cults faction Keyword (so Brood Brother units taken from the GSC codex are ineligible) and units with the Voice of Command or Tank Orders ability can only issue orders to units they would normally be able to issue orders to (Scions can only receive orders from a Tempestor Prime, Infantry from Commanders, etc.). (FAQ)

    6. There can only be one Brood Brothers detachment for each Genestealer Cults detachment. This generally means that there can only be a single Brood Brothers detachment per army due to the way detachments are allocated.

    All Astra Militarum derived units within the Genestealer Cult Codex also feature the Brood Brothers keyword, meaning they do not benefit from the vast majority of the character auras and other abilities that are tied to the <cult> keyword. However, they can be included in GSC detachments without breaking the creed abilities.

    Gene-Sects: A matched play specific rule that limits each GSC character to 1-per detachment. With the new 9th edition army construction rules, this has changed from a mild inconvenience to a significant drawback, as it effectively adds a command point tax to take duplicate characters.

    Broodfather: Another matched play specific rule that prohibits a non-Patriarch GSC or Brood Brother character from being selected as the army’s Warlord if the army includes any Patriarchs. This does not prevent an allied Hive Fleet Tyranid character from being selected as a Warlord if one is available, only GSC or Brood Brothers characters are restricted.


    Cult Creeds:
    One of the most major changes from the index version of the army was the introduction of the <cult> keyword, allowing GSC units the benefits of subfaction rules like most of the other armies. Like several of the early codices in 8th edition, the abilities granted by cult creeds only effect <cult> Infantry and <cult> Bikers. While the Patriarch and Purestrain Genestealers have the <cult> and infantry keyword, they specifically do not gain the abilities related to a given creed. They do benefit from other <cult> effects though, such as character auras, stratagems, and psychic powers.

    Codex Creeds:

    The six Codex <cult> Creeds can be roughly divided between 3 creeds that focus on the “hammer” elements of the army and 3 creeds that focus more on the “anvil” elements of the army. They are as follows:

    Four-Armed Emperor:
    Spoiler:

    Trait: Subterrain Ambushers – Confers +1 to advance and charge rolls on the first turn. From turn two onwards it provides its benefits whenever a unit with the cult ambush rule sets up, such as arriving from underground or disembarking from a vehicle.

    The Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor creed ability strongly favors alpha strike tactics by improving the likelihood of units successfully making the charge after coming out of ambush or a transport. Bikers can also potentially take advantage of the +1 to advance and charge rolls on the first turn to secure early objectives and keep the opponent boxed in. The creed also features a very powerful signature stratagem and useful warlord trait.

    The primary drawback to be mindful of with this creed is sustainability. In most instances the main creed ability will only get to meaningfully trigger a handful of times per game and both the signature stratagem and warlord trait can only be used once per match. As such, it is usually only used for small support detachments dedicated to ambushing melee units that benefit from the added consistency on their arrival.


    Pauper Princes
    Spoiler:

    Trait: Devoted Zealots – Allows units to reroll to-hit rolls on the turn where-in they charge, are charged, or perform a heroic intervention.

    The Pauper Princes are all about increasing the reliability of their attacks and maximizing their offensive capabilities. The creed ability on its own is a relatively straightforward trait common to many of the melee centric subfactions in other armies. It is especially useful for units that are otherwise shackled with a 4+ to hit in close combat (Abominant, Hammer Aberrants, Rock Cutter Acolytes, Neophytes, Jackals) and reduces the workload for a Primus with other units. Their signature stratagem also improves accuracy at an army-wide level, albeit with a finicky trigger condition.

    The biggest issue for the Pauper Princes is that they are the only "hammer" creed that doesn't offer anything to improve the delivery of melee threat, making it somewhat reliant on Goliath chassis vehicles to close with the foe. Certain 9th edition armies being able to turn off reroll effects is also a mild concern for the creed.


    Twisted Helix
    Spoiler:

    Trait: Experimental Subjects – Affected units gain +1 strength and add 2’’ to their advance rolls.

    The Twisted Helix creed serves as a compromise between enhancing the delivery of threats and hitting power. Unlike the Pauper Princes which focus on accuracy and maximizing attacks, for the most part the Twisted Helix is more interesting in making sure what blows land hurt between their base strength boost, signature psychic power, and various character enhancements offered through their warlord trait and relic. Twisted Helix armies will often tend more towards hordes of creed-enhanced troops with a handful of elites to pick off "problem" units.

    Of the three "Hammer" creeds, the Twisted Helix is probably the best suited for 9th edition missions. Increased speed on early turns improves the ability to secure early objectives and added strength helps in cracking heavy infantry.


    Rusted Claw
    Spoiler:

    Trait: Nomadic Survivalists – Units add +1 to their saving throws against attacks with AP- or AP -1. Biker units ignore the penalties for advancing and firing assault weapons and may treat their pistols as assault when advancing. (9th edition errata)

    The first of the “anvil” leaning creeds, the Rusted Claw offers a two part trait that improves the durability of most of its units and offers a significant mobility and firepower enhancement to Atalan Jackals and their boss. Rusted Claw infantry are unusually resilient against the sort of high volume/poor AP shooting usually used to dispose of low toughness troops, especially if they can take advantage of terrain to add cover to their already enhanced armor.

    While the enhanced durability is a major asset, the true power of the Rusted Claw lies in their synergies with the Atalan Jackals. The creed ability itself allows for an impressive threat range for squads loaded with assault weapons (Shotguns and Grenade Launchers), coupled with a surprising amount of firepower with the additional pistol shots granted with the 9th edition FAQ. The signature stratagem of the Rusted Claw continues this general theme of added firepower and mobility, allowing Jackals to both hit hard and zip away from retaliation.

    The main drawback for a Rusted Claw detachment is that the creed is so oriented towards the enhancement of Jackals that most of its best tricks are lost if they are not included. The durability enhancement itself is also vulnerable to armies that tend to field high volumes of AP-2 weapons (loyalist Marines being particular offenders) so depending on meta it might be better to look at one of the other creeds if you aren’t looking to maximize the effectiveness of Jackal packs.


    Bladed Cog
    Spoiler:

    Trait: Cyborgized Hybrids – Bestows a 6+ invulnerable save or improves an existing invulnerable save by one to a max of 3+ (only possible with their unique relic on a non-Patriarch model). Bladed Cog infantry do not suffer penalties for moving and firing heavy weapons.

    The other “anvil”-leaning creed with a focus on durability enhancement, though unlike its counterpart the Bladed Cog offers a surprisingly versatile toolbox with enhancements for both shooting, durability, and melee. The invulnerable save benefit of the creed ability is especially appreciated by characters that come with an invulnerable save (Kelermorph and Locus) and the army’s assault troops who greatly appreciate access to an invulnerable save to counteract the higher average AP of melee weaponry. The second part is comparatively harder to leverage, owing to the relative rarity of infantry-mounted heavy weapons. Neophytes with heavy mining weapons are the foremost beneficiaries (especially with the Seismic Cannon which loves the ability to move up before firing with its short-range profile) but it also benefits a sniper Sanctus as well.

    Owing to the improvements for heavy weaponry, a Bladed Cog army will generally be more Neophyte heavy than most. However, they still want a good selection of melee units to benefit from their signature stratagem and their warlord trait is equally useful for both the range and melee components of the army. Lastly, it is worth noting that the +1 to invulnerable saves aspect of the creed ability also offers some interesting interactions with fortifications that bestow invulnerable saves, making pure Bladed Cog armies one of the rare occurrences where a fortification is perhaps worth considering.



    Hivecult
    Spoiler:

    Trait: Disciplined Militants – Casualties suffered from failed attrition tests by Hivecult infantry are reduced by half (rounding up!). Hivecult units can also shoot after falling back, albeit at a -1 to hit.

    The Hivecult stands out amongst the creeds as promoting a more shooting-centric playstyle. The main trait is useful for both screening units and tarpits, allowing such units to withdraw from a prolonged combat but still get shots in (this aspect is especially useful for units armed with shotguns). The main strength of the creed, however, lies in its excellent signature stratagem and warlord trait. Both serve to drastically improve the consistency of Hivecult ranged weapons and pair remarkably well with the Jackal Alphus. These elements make Hivecult the best option when pursuing a mechanized list, since such lists tend to bring a higher concentration of heavy weaponry that can benefit from what Hivecult uniquely offers.

    The only drawback for Hivecult is that it has very little to offer dedicated assault units beyond the basic toolset available to the Genestealer Cults as a whole. As such it generally wants to be paired with another creed that can provide counter-assault elements for the gunline.


    Custom Creeds:
    Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good provided the Genestealer Cults with the option of forgoing one of the codex creeds in favor of picking two of the following abilities for a cult of one's own creation. Five of the selections are derived from the Codex creeds while the remaining six offer new abilities. In general the opportunity costs involved in taking a custom creed make them less appealing than the main codex creeds, but a few combinations may cover some tactical niches that can be used to support a mainline creed in a small supporting detachment.

    Armor Piercing Ammunition
    Spoiler:

    Effect: When performing an attack at half range with Autoguns, Autopistols, or Heavy Stubbers, add an additional AP-1.
    One of the more universally beneficial of the custom traits, Armor Piercing Ammunition provides ap -1 for some of the most common weaponry in the army at the cost of needing to play aggressively to benefit.


    Munitions Experts
    Spoiler:

    Effect: +1 strength for Blasting Charges and Demolition Charges.

    While limited in what weapons it effects, both weapons appreciate the added strength to break specific thresholds (S4 vs T3 and S9 vs T8) and most units in the army are equipped with Blasting Charges. Has some potential overlap with Armor Piercing Ammunition in that both require units to be close to be use.


    Workers Arisen
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Reroll to-hit rolls with Heavy Mining Weapons (Mining Lasers, Heavy Stubbers, Seismic Cannons).

    Probably the strongest of the custom traits, as it provides the only source of full to-hit rerolls for shooting weapons (albeit it a limited selection of shooting weapons) in the army. An appealing option for making heavy use of Neophytes and Wolfquads as fire support pieces.


    Unnatural Symbiosis
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Allows a psyker with this ability to reroll 1's when taking psychic tests while within 6'' of another unit with this ability.

    A relatively niche choice since it only benefits Magi and is thus limited by the Gene-Sects special rule. That being said, many of the Brood Mind powers have comparatively high casting values and the trait gives a bit of added reliability, so it may be worth considering as a secondary creed ability if taking a Magus and have no other plans for the "slot".


    Devout Worshippers
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Reroll charges while near friendly <cult> Metamorphs. Cannot be combined with the Hunter's Instincts ability (see below).

    This creed helps improve charge reliability for units within proximity of a Metamorph Squad (including said squad). This used to be a fairly good trait for a more-ambush centric build that can stack the reroll benefit with other modifiers (Clamavus, Insidious Mindwyrm) for further reliability, but the price hike Metamorphs saw going into 9th coupled with deep strike in general being a bit emakes it far less appealing.



    Poisoned Blades
    Spoiler:

    Effect: When attacking with a Bonesword, Bonesword with Lashwhip or Cult Knife, the model may make an additional attack for each unmodified to-hit roll of 6 (with standard caveats regarding generating extra attacks from bonus attacks).

    A fairly standard bonus attacks on 6's trait with restrictions on what weapons can trigger the effect. While the Primus, Magus, Jackal Alphus, Kelermorph, and Metamorphs gain benefit on at least one weapon, this creed ability is mostly useful for Jackals and Acolytes who can bring enough volume of knife attacks to reliably generate bonus attacks.


    Hunter's Instincts
    Spoiler:

    Effect: +1 to advance and change rolls on the first game turn.

    This trait is similar to the effect from the Cult of the Four Armed Emperor creed, but without the clause allowing the effect to be used after deep strike in subsequent turns. As such, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to effectively make use of this trait in matched play due to the restrictions on reserves for the first turn. The codex also has other means to grant +1 to advance and charge rolls independent of creed, which further adds an opportunity cost to taking this ability compared to one of the others.


    Innate Fighters
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Reroll to-hit rolls of 1 in combat on turns where the unit charged, was charged, or heroically intervened.

    A weaker version of the Pauper Princes creed ability, but it is the only custom creed ability that improves melee capabilities without significant restrictions. Unlike the Pauper Princes version, Innate Fighters prefers units that already possess good accuracy to offset its more limited scope for rerolling the to-hit die.


    Seasoned Enforcers
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Infantry ignore the penalty for moving and firing with heavy weapons.

    The move and fire benefit from the Bladed Cog creed ability. Seasoned Enforcers has some appeal when combined with one of the other shooting-centric abilities to create a fire support creed, but its benefit only applies to two units which may make the opportunity cost hard to balance.


    Agile Outriders
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Bikes ignore the penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons, may treat pistol weapons as assault while advancing. (9th edition errata)

    Like above, this replicates the accuracy benefit of the Rusted Claw for Atalan Jackals and the Alphus. Given that the Rusted Claw has difficulty in environments with volumes of AP-2 shooting, this is one of the more appealing custom traits for someone running large quantities of Jackals that could benefit from a more reliable secondary ability.


    Thralls of the Patriarch
    Spoiler:

    Effect: Halves casualties from attrition tests (9th edition errata)

    Copied from Hivecult. The usefulness of this trait is somewhat dependent upon taking larger units where moral can come into play.


    Psychic Powers:

    Broodmind Powers
    The Broodmind discipline is the basic set of powers available to all GSC psykers regardless of creed. Befitting a subversive faction, the Broodmind discipline features a mixture of unit buffs, enemy debuffs, and damage powers. A common theme is that many of these powers check against the target’s leadership characteristic before applying their effects, making leadership penalties more useful than they normally are. The powers are:

    Mass Hypnosis: When manifested, Mass Hypnosis prevents its target from firing overwatch, forces them to swing last in combat or as normal if they had an ability that allowed them to always swing first, and puts a -1 to hit penalty on all of their attacks (ranged or melee). Each individual effect is useful, but together they can completely shut down a unit and make it very vulnerable to assault. This is generally the default power to look to as it is good in most circumstances and is rarely without at least one good target.

    Mind Control: A somewhat situational but potentially game changing power in the right situations. If manifested it rolls 3D6 against the target's leadership and if the result is equal to or exceeds the leadership of that model it may make a shooting attack or make a single close combat attack against a target of your choice as if it were one of your own models. While being able to use the foe's own models against them is always powerful, the power of Mind Control goes up significantly the more guns the victim has available to shoot with and is especially dangerous to models carrying plasma weapons that can be overcharged in hopes of slaying the model outright with an overheat in addition to any other damage. However, outside of these targets Mind Control has relatively little utility since it can only affect one model at a time. Note that models under the effects of Mind Control must obey most firing restriction rules (cannot shoot most weapons if an enemy model is 1’’ away) with exception that they are able to attack other models within their own unit.

    Psionic Blast: A smite variant that can be directly targeted at the cost of reduced damage potential. When manifested Psionic Blast rolls 2D6 against the target’s leadership: If the result is less than the target’s leadership the target suffers 1 mortal wound. If equal or greater the target suffers D3 mortal wounds. Arguably the weakest power in the discipline and rarely picked since it doesn't do much more than basic smite.

    Mental Onslaught: When manifested, both the target and the caster roll off and add their respective leadership to the roll. If the target loses the roll, the suffer a mortal wound and must roll again until they either beat the GSC player’s score, roll a natural 6 (FAQ), or are slain. While it is no longer the automatic model-deleting power it was pre-FAQ, Mental Onslaught remains a useful tool for sniping specific models out of units (such as heavy weapons or icons) and putting wounds on low leadership vehicles, but can be made more dangerous with leadership manipulation abilities.

    Psychic Stimulus: When manifested, confers the ability to advance and charge to the targeted GSC unit as well as the ability to always swing first. A good counterpart to Might From Beyond, insuring that the bolstered unit is both delivered and will get to make its blows before the foe can retaliate. Can also be used to aid units caught in an ongoing combat or as a countermeasure against foes with always swings first abilities. Atalan Jackals are perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of this power, given their high mobility, but Acolytes appreciate it as well.

    Might from Beyond: When successfully manifested the target GSC Infantry unit gains +1 strength and +1 attack. Generally used to insure a successful alpha strike against tough targets by lowering the to-wound threshold and providing extra attacks.

    Creed Powers
    Introduced in Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good, these powers are tied to the codex cults and can only be taken by a psyker with the corresponding cult creed. Each is themed with their specific cult in mind, making for a rather diverse set of effects compared to the manipulative Broodmind powers.

    Undermine: (Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor) When manifested, a selected enemy infantry unit within 18'' of the psyker must halve all movement, and distances gained from advance or charge rolls. While this has a rather high warp charge value, it is a fairly powerful tool against opposing melee infantry (especially ones that tend to be given double movement, such as Kraken genestealers or possessed).

    Synaptic Blast: (Hive Cult) When manifested, a selected target must roll 1 die for each Hivecult model within 3'' and suffer 1 mortal wound for each 6 rolled. This appears to be designed with Hivecult's trait in mind, as the most likely condition to large volumes of infantry within 3'' would be melee or having just withdrawn from melee. While this could be highly amusing if mobbing a large target, in practice it is difficult to reliably set up compared to standard Smite.

    Undying Vigor: (Bladed Cog) When manifested, a selected Bladed Cog unit gains the ability to negate wounds on a 5+ until the player's next psychic phase. A clone of the Tyranid Catalyst ability and similar in application for making a unit tougher for a turn.

    Inescapable Decay: (Rusted Claw) When manifested, attacks made against a targeted vehicle unit gain an additional point of AP. A nifty tool for combating vehicles with mid-strength weapons that otherwise have poor AP (such as Autocannons) and allows Mining Lasers and Lascannons to punch through a 3+ save entirely. Also worthy of note, Inescapable Decay currently does not care about faction affiliation for applying its effects which gives it added utility in lists bringing allies.

    Last Gasp: (Pauper Princes) An unusual power that gives a Pauper Princes Infantry unit the ability to either shoot or fight before being removed as a casualty on a 4+. This has several potential applications but in general will want to be put on a unit that expects retaliation as a way of getting a bit of extra offense.

    Mutagenic Deviation: (Twisted Helix) When a friendly Twisted Helix model makes a melee attack against the target of this power, they gain the ability to add +1 to the wound roll. This power is especially helpful against high toughness infantry such as Custodes, Grotesques, or Centurions with the added benefit of also reducing the roll needed to cause an AP-4 wound with Rending Claws (or an AP-6 wound with Monstrous Rending Claws) to a 5+.


    Units Overviews:

    HQ:

    Patriarch:
    Spoiler:
    Roughly analogous to the Tyranid Broodlord, Patriarchs combine good melee capability with speed and limited army support through its aura abilities and psychic powers. Each has a suitably monstrous stat line with WS: 2+, S6, T5, 6 attacks, and 6 wounds backed by a 4+ armor save. In addition, they share the Lightning Reflexes rule with their Purestrain kin, granting them the ability to charge after advancing and a 5+ invulnerable save. When combined with the Patriarch's already high innate movement speed, this grants an impressive average threat range of 19’’. Once in combat, the Patriarch’s aptly named Monstrous Rending Claws grant the ability to reroll all failed wound rolls and excellent armor piercing capability with D3 damage per blow, with 6’s to wound being resolved at a staggering AP-6 and a damage characteristic of 3. Outside of its direct offensive capabilities, the Patriarch also acts as a psyker that can manifest and deny a single power each turn. Furthermore, they also possess two aura effects, one that grants friendly <cult> units and Brood Brothers infantry moral immunity and a second which provides a +1 to hit effect for <cult> Purestrain Genestealers.

    While a powerful model, these features come at a rather premium cost. The Patriarch is the one of the most expensive models in the army and, despite its impressive stats, is relatively fragile against return blows. The Broodfather rule also means that it will almost always have to be the Warlord in matched play games, making it an even higher priority target. As such it will generally want to be accompanied by multiple squads to serve as sacrificial pawns and/or look towards warlord traits and relics that improve its ability to avoid damage.


    Magus:
    Spoiler:
    The Magus serves as a "budget" psyker that provides access to the Broodmind discipline at a somewhat reduced cost. Like the Patriarch, the Magus knows two powers in addition to Smite and may manifest one power a turn by default. Where the Magus differs from their counterpart is their Spiritual Leader ability, which allows all friendly non-pyker <cult> models (including vehicles) within range to attempt to deny a hostile psychic power targeting them as though they were psykers themselves. This is especially helpful against Smite and similar offensive powers, freeing the Magus to use their deny attempt on support powers instead.

    A Magus will generally focus more on support powers and lurk somewhere further from the action, due to their fragility. However, their lower cost and smaller base size makes them a preferable candidate for high risk powers like Mind Control. They can defend themselves in melee reasonably well with their Force Staff and Cult Knife, but will generally want to avoid combat where possible.


    Genestealer Familiars:
    Spoiler:

    Genestealer Familiars are small unit add-ons that may be purchased to accompany either a Magus or a Patriarch, forming a character "unit" consisting of the psyker and up to 2 familiars. In addition to providing ablative wounds with which to take high damage hits that Unquestioning Loyalty fails to intercept, each also offers 2 additional S4 attacks with which to lash out against anyone threatening the psyker they are bound to. In addition, if at least one Familiar is present, their master gains a once per game ability to cast an additional psychic power after successfully manifesting a power. If all familiars are slain, this ability is also lost so it is best used earlier than later.


    Primus:
    Spoiler:

    Whereas the Magus is a budget psyker, the Primus at first glance appears to be a budget fighter. However, his true power lies in supporting GSC units with his Cult Demagogue and Meticulous Planner abilities: Cult Demagogue provides a flat +1 to hit for all friendly <cult> units in range during the fight phase, allowing even lowly Neophytes hit most things on a 3+ and practically everything else in the army to hit on a 2+. Meanwhile, Meticulous Planner allows the Primus to pick a single enemy unit on the turn in which he first sets up on the table and bestow the ability to reroll to-wound rolls of 1 for friendly <cult> units with the Cult Ambush ability in range when targeting the marked unit. This latter ability also applies to shooting attacks, allowing the Primus to support shooting assets in taking down a key target if need be.

    Offensively, the Primus has mildly above average combat stats for a guardsmen-sized model, with an innate weapon skill of 2+ and 4 attacks with either a Bonesword or unique Toxin Injector Claw. Unless given a relic Bonesword, he will generally be better off swinging with the Toxin Injector Claw, as it wounds non-vehicle models on a 2+ in addition to the benefits of a common Rending Claw. The Primus also carries a Needle Pistol (poison weapon that wounds on a 2+) and a supply of Blasting Charges to provide limited ranged capability against light infantry.

    The Primus is that he is rather fragile for such a high priority melee target, with the standard GSC armor save of 5+ and no innate invulnerable save. As such he will generally want to lurk behind the main line and only wade into combat with a wall of minions to take hits on his behalf.


    Abominant:
    Spoiler:

    The Abominant is unusual in that it is a surprisingly durable character with multiple layers of defenses to keep it alive and kicking. They feature a monstrous statline with S6, T5, and 5 wounds which are further augmented by the Bestial Vigor ability shared with Aberrants and a passive D3 wounds per turn health regeneration. The Power Sledgehammer wielded by the Abominant provides it with an impressive S12 AP-3 attack with 3 to 6 damage per blow, albeit at the cost of -1 to hit which makes it somewhat inaccurate without assistance. The Abominant also comes equipped with a Rending Claw (which may be used in place of the Sledgehammer against light infantry) and a Mindwyrm Familiar which offers 2 additional S4 attacks after the Abominant itself has swung.

    Like the other GSC leaders, the Abominant has its own aura abilities. Its Chosen One ability causes each natural to-hit roll of 6 made by a friendly <cult> Aberrant unit in range to inflict two hits instead of one, increasing their already impressive offensive capabilities further. Due to the Abominant having the Aberrant keyword it benefits from its own ability, mildly compensating for the relatively low attacks characteristic it possesses and making for a truly unpleasant surprise for targets when the dice are hot. Lastly, the attending Mindwyrm Familiar imposes a -1 penalty to casting rolls on opposing psykers within range, which pairs nicely with the Spiritual Leader ability of the Magus and the Shadow in the Warp ability of Tyranid allies.


    Acolyte Iconward:
    Spoiler:
    The Iconward provides a comparatively cheap support HQ that offers an assortment of effect auras. By default, the Iconward allows friendly <cult> infantry or bike units within range to reroll failed moral checks and confers a 6+ FNP-like ability to nearby units, which adds a bit of extra durability and offers a save against mortal wounds. <cult> Aberrant units in range instead gain the ability to reroll 1’s for their Bestial Vigor ability. Neophytes especially appreciate having an Iconward around, as their larger squad sizes compounded with relatively low target priority means moral is more likely to come into play for them than melee squads. While an Iconward is far from durable, they are relatively capable fighters with 4 rending claw attacks at WS: 3+ and are perfectly comfortable wading into the fight alongside their fellow hybrids if a good opportunity presents itself.


    Jackal Alphus
    Spoiler:
    The Jackal Alphus is unique amongst the GSC HQ options in that her talents favor ranged combat over melee. Being a bike-mounted character, the Alphus features an unusually tough defensive profile for a character by the standards of the faction, with T4 and 5 wounds protected by the ever present 5+ save and a -1 to hit granted by her Skilled Rider ability. The Alphus is armed with a Sniper Rifle with -2 AP and D3 damage as well as an autopistol and cult knife for close combat defense. The most notable aspect of the Alphus, however, is her Priority Target Sighted ability, which allows friendly <cult> units within range (and biker units at double range) to add +1 to hit rolls against a designated target within 36’’ of her during the shooting phase, making her a huge boon for Neophyte-based units and a near-mandatory inclusion for lists incorporating cult vehicles.




    ELITES:

    Aberrants:
    Spoiler:
    Aberrants are the "heavy infantry" of the Genestealer Cults, featuring S5, T4, and 2 wounds backed by the Bestial Vigor rule which reduces damage by 1 and provides a 5+ FNP ability against wounds suffered. Due to this, Aberrants are unusually resilient against common 2 damage weapons that vex other multi-wound infantry, though they are still vulnerable to mass small arms fire due to their 5+ armor. Offensively, each model is equipped with Rending Claws and either a Heavy Power Hammer or Power Pick and may mix weapons in the squad.

    - Power Picks: Power Picks are the anti-infantry focused Aberrant weapon with AP-2, and D3 damage. Furthermore, for each attack made with a Power Pick the bearer may make 1 additional attack with their Rending Claws. This brings models equipped with picks to a more respectable 4 attacks each and a staggering 6 attacks each if under the effects of Might from Beyond, allowing them to pulverize most infantry and even threaten light vehicles/smaller monsters through sheer weight of attacks.

    - Heavy Power Hammers: Heavy Power Hammers are one of the hardest hitting weapons in the army, offering S10, AP-3, and a fixed 3 damage per blow at the cost of a -1 to hit penalty. This makes Aberrants with Hammers one of the best tools available for demolishing T8+ models while offering consistent damage against any multi-wound target. Low volume of attacks means Hammers are rather ineffective against infantry, however, so it is recommended to bring a few Power Picks along to counteract tarpitting. A Primus is also an ideal accompaniment to counteract the accuracy penalty and potentially allow rerolls of 1 to wound against a key target.

    -Rending Claw A Tyranid biomorph commonly found throughout the army, featuring -1 AP and the ability to jump to -4 AP on to-wound rolls of 6+. While all Aberrants are equipped with them, they are unlikely to be used outside of power-pick wielding models, unless the ability to swing without a to-hit penalty is paramount or strength is a non-factor (S6 vs T3 for example).

    In addition, one in five Aberrants may be upgraded to a Hypermorph. The Hypermorph features an additional attack over its regular counterparts, a hypermorph tail, and either a heavy improvised weapon or a power hammer.

    - Heavy Power Hammer: Same weapon as that found on standard Aberrants, though with the benefit of an additional attack at no additional cost. Previously it was a bit overshadowed by the power of the Heavy Improvised Weapon, but post-Chapter Approved 2019 and the release of 9th edition it has become a bit more appealing as the cheaper weapon that still delivers quality S10 attacks.

    - Heavy Improvised Weapon: A weaponized signpost unique available to the Hypermorph. Despite being what amounts to a lump of concrete on a metal pole, this dubious weapon hits remarkably hard, starting at S10 with AP-1 and 2 damage per blow, though like the Heavy Power Hammer it suffers from a -1 to hit penalty. Furthermore, the weapon makes 2 to-hit rolls for each attack made with it, allowing for an impressive number of attacks. While powerful, the weapon saw a hefty price hike in Chapter Approved 2019 that makes it exceedingly expensive, making it a rather poor choice.

    - Hypermorph Tail: Provides 1 (and only 1) free AP-1 attack in addition to the Hypermorph's standard attacks. Not a huge amount, but every little bit helps.


    Biophagus
    Spoiler:
    A Neophyte-based support character designed to bolster Aberrants via their Genomic Augmentation ability. When used, the selected unit gains either +1 attack, +1 toughness, or +1 strength for the rest of the game at a small risk of one model being slain outright by the augmentation. The Biophagus also comes equipped with a relatively nasty melee weapon in their Injector Goad, which confers +1 strength and the ability to both wound non-vehicle targets on a 2+ (similar to the injector claw of the Primus) and potentially inflict mortal wounds on characters that suffer an unsaved wound from the weapon.

    The Biophagus may also be accompanied by an Alchemicus Familiar, which confers a once-per-game ability to roll a second die for the Genomic Augmentation ability (selecting the preferred roll) and the standard Familiar bonus of an extra wound for high damage shots and 2 S4 attacks.


    Clamavus:
    Spoiler:
    Another Neophyte based character that specializes in area denial and infantry support. Their Scrambler Array ability prevents enemy units from arriving from reserves within a 12’’ radius and has the potential to inflict mortal wounds on foes within 6’’. Meanwhile, their Proclamation Hailer grants +1 ld. to friendly <cult> models within range as well as +1’’ to advance and charge rolls. Both features are very useful for ambushing squads to both push back retaliatory deep strikes and as a means of reducing the distance needed for a successful charge.
    While useful, it is important to note that the Clamavus suffers from abysmal offensive capability, being armed with the GSC standard issue autopistol and nothing else. As such, they will generally want to avoid following their fellow hybrids into close combat and instead focus entirely on their support and disruption role (ideally with some Neophyte or Brood Brothers bodyguards).


    Kelermorph:
    Spoiler:
    The Kelermorph is an expensive dedicated shooting character that specializes in character and chaff removal. They feature an impressive ballistic skill of 2+ and employ it with a trio of fancy Liberator Autostubs, S4 2-shot pistols with Ap -1 and 2 damage each. While this is already considerable firepower from a single character, the Kelermorph also gains an additional shot for each successful hit scored (with the standard caveat of these additional shots not generating further hits) and the ability to ignore the targeting restrictions on enemy characters from their Gunslinger ability. Combined with their already impressive ballistic skill and the Kelermorph is able to lay down a weathering barrage of anti-infantry firepower.

    The Kelermorph also comes equipped with a Cult Knife for melee combat and a rare 5+ invulnerable save, giving them slightly more resilience than most of their counterparts. Like most GSC characters, the Kelermorph also possesses a support aura, albeit a conditional one. If they should successfully slay an enemy model with a shooting attack, nearby <cult> models can reroll to-hit rolls of 1 until the end of the phase. Note that the Kelermorph himself never benefits from his own aura, as it triggers after he has performed his attacks (2019 fall FAQ further clarified this point).


    Locus:
    Spoiler:
    The Locus is a relatively cheap dedicated bodyguard character, though they are designed more for proactive defense of their masters rather than passively absorbing wounds. Each Locus features an impressive selection of abilities that enhance their melee capabilities, including a 5+ invulnerable save, the ability to always swing first (alternating with other units with similar abilities), and an extended range for heroic intervention. For offense, they are armed with a set of unique Locus Blades, which confer a solid AP-3 and a conditional 3 damage per blow when charging, heroically intervening, or being charged. They also feature a Hypermorph tail identical to the sort found on the Aberrant Hypermorph, bestowing 1 additional attack at -1 AP. With this suite of abilities, the Locus is especially useful against melee assassins, such as the Lord Executioner, Deathleaper, Callidus Assassin, or a rival Sanctus. Against such threats the Locus can threaten a counter charge via their enhanced Heroic Intervention and force the opponent to either swing with their assassin first (possibly opening other units up to a counterattack) or risk multiple 3-damage attacks from the Locus. Outside of this, the Locus is also a remarkably capable assassin in their own right, being more durable and cheaper than a Sanctus but admittedly more specialized against infantry characters.

    The Locus also gets the standard wound intercept ability found on other bodyguard units, in the form of their Unquestioning Bodyguard ability. When used, one Locus (FAQ) may be selected to intercept wounds from friendly characters in range on a 2+ and suffer a moral wound in exchange (this wound cannot in turn be passed off to different model via Unquestioning Loyalty or another Locus). Due to the ready availability of sacrificial minions, the Unquestioning Bodyguard ability is generally only useful against low damage attacks or effects (such as perils of the warp) where a single mortal wound is less wasteful than killing a model.

    Lastly, the Locus also features a -1 leadership bubble, originally a very valuable tool for a Mental Onslaught bomb. Post-FAQ it is still a useful aid for all three offensive powers of the Broodmind discipline and as a modifier for enemy moral tests, but overall is not quite as potent as before.


    Metamorph Hybrids:
    Spoiler:
    An anti-infantry strain of the first and second generation hybrids, Metamorphs are the mass attack specialists of the Genestealer Cults. Each features an impressive 3 rending claw attacks each (4 for the leader) and an assortment of bioweapons that further augment their capabilities, allowing them to tailor their performance to deal with specific threats. For the most part Metamorphs excel at shredding other single wound infantry regardless of bioweapon, though they can put damage on larger targets with sheer volume of attacks.

    Biomorphs:

    - Metamorph Talon: Default meta-weapon, resembling a Tyranid scything talon. Grants +1 to hit rolls made when attacking with the talon and one “free” talon attack whenever the bearer fights, bringing basic Metamorphs to 4 attacks each or to a staggering 5 attacks each if they exchange their rending claw for a second talon. A Metamorph with twin talons is ideal for horde clearing with a flurry of accurate attacks, while a single talon + rending claw allows the Metamorph to instead act like an elite Acolyte with a more accurate knife attack and extra rending attack.

    - Metamorph Whip: The cheapest of the three meta-weapons and notable for only providing an ability rather than a unique weapon profile. If a model equipped with a metamorph whip is slain during the fight phase before making its attacks, they are not removed until after they and their unit have fought. Whip-morphs are especially useful for intercepting opposing melee threats such as Druhkari Incubi, but can also be taken as comparatively expendable bodies to protect more expensive biomorphs. Lastly, the Whip is especially ideal for a model carrying a Cult Icon to keep the pricy investment on the field until the end of the turn.

    - Metamorph Claw: Resembling a miniature Tyranid Crushing Claw, this weapon features +2 strength and AP-1, but takes up both the model’s meta weapon and rending claw to equip. While theoretically effective against higher toughness infantry or bikes, high cost makes it a poor option compared to an Acolyte.

    -Rending Claw A Tyranid biomorph commonly found throughout the army, featuring -1 AP and the ability to jump to -4 AP on to-wound rolls of 6+. Rending Claws are the primary armament for Whip-morphs and Metamorphs with a single talon, being effective against most targets.

    Other Equipment:

    - Autopistol: Standard-issue 12’’ range S3 pistol. Metamorphs generally won't be shooting much due to their desire to close for melee, but these do give them some ranged capability at no additional cost.

    -Hand Flamer: Any Metamorph may upgrade their default Autopistol for a Handflamer, increasing rate of fire to D6 shots that automatically hit. Given how expensive Metamorphs are this isn't as appealing an option as on their Acolyte kin, but it is a significant firepower improvement and is a nice fit for Whipmorphs and their counter-melee role.

    - Bonesword: Unique to the Metamorph leader, a Bonesword offers an additional AP-2 weapon to supplement their biomorph. Pairs especially well with duel talons for a truly staggering amount of attacks from a single non-character infantry model while retaining a degree of AP capability when needed.

    -Cult Icon One Metamorph model in the unit may be equipped with a Cult Icon to gain the ability to reroll to-hit rolls of 1 in combat. Synergizes very well with Talons for near perfect accuracy, though due cost it is generally only worthwhile for full size squads.



    Nexos:
    Spoiler:
    The Nexos is a non-combat strategic advisor character with two support abilities. Firstly, when the Nexos is revealed from an ambush token one other ambush token may be picked up and relocated to a new position anywhere within the deployment zone provided it remains 12’’ from any enemy models. Secondly, each time the GSC player or his opponent spends a command point, the Nexos may roll a die and generate a command point on a roll of 6+. If there are any friendly <cult> Primuses on the table the Nexos may add +1 to the roll to recover a command point the player spent, while a friendly <cult> Clamavus instead allows them to add +1 to rolls made when an opponent spends a command point.

    While their command point recovery abilities are extremely useful, it is important to remember the matched play restrictions that limit such regeneration to 1 command point per battle round. The ability to move tokens can be useful in setting up a denied flank or avoiding abilities that prevent setting up (such as a rival Clamavus or Infiltrator marines), though on its own likely does not merit the inclusion of multiple Nexos.


    Purestrain Genestealers:
    Spoiler:
    Purestrain Genestealers serve as fast-moving counter-assault specialists, having a high number of Rending Claw attacks backed by the same advance and assault ability as the Patriarch, the same high base movement of 8'', and the same 5+ invulnerable save. Like their Hive Fleet counterparts, Purestrains gain an additional attack when taken in broods of 10 or more via their Flurry of Claws ability and can be upgraded with a set of Scything Talons (in this case Purestrain Talons) for rerolls of 1 to hit against things that are unconcerned with the AP of Rending Claws.

    Unlike their Hive Fleet counterparts, Purestrain Genestealers otherwise lack customization options beyond the random boons granted by the First Curse stratagem. Instead, they gain Cult Ambush for superior deployment options and have access to the various in-faction strength buffs, allowing them to handle tougher targets that Hive Fleet Genestealers would struggle with. That said, they are more expensive than their Tyranid counterparts and if not taking advantage of Cult Ambush are better run as the (mildly) more cost-efficient Hive Fleet ‘stealers.


    Sanctus:
    Spoiler:
    The Sanctus is a Neophyte-based assassin with an accompanying Soulsight Familiar, which grants the ignores cover ability to its master and two additional S4 attacks with their claws. The Sanctus can be configured for melee or range assassinations, with the following weapon options:

    -Bio-Dagger: Effectively a 2-damage bonesword that grants the bearer an additional attack and the ability to wound non-vehicle targets on a 2+ regardless of toughness. A Sanctus so equipped has a rather impressive volume of attacks (5 from his dagger and 2 from his familiar) at WS 2+, though they lose all ranged capability in exchange. A good option for hunting monsters or for raw damage output.

    -Silenced Sniper Rifle: A S4 AP-1 sniper rifle with the added ability to inflict Perils of the Warp attacks on a Psyker model who suffers at least one wound from the weapon and survives. A highly specialized tool, but very effective at its specialization.

    To perform their task, the Sanctus features an assortment of abilities useful for an assassin. Their Camo Cloak ability allows them to add +2 to their saving throws while in cover (bringing them to an impressive 3+ base or 2+ with Rusted Claw) while their Cult Assassin ability allows them to use the Perfect Ambush stratagem at no command point cost, allowing them to grab free shots or extra movement whenever they arrive from ambush. Like the Imperial Assassins, a Sanctus can never be selected as a warlord (presumably because they are too busy slinking around).



    TROOPS:

    Acolyte Hybrids:
    Spoiler:
    Acolyte Hybrids serve the Genestealer Cults as shock troops, offering supreme lethality from an assortment of close range weaponry. In many ways Acolytes are defined by their special weapons, acting as either an armor-cracking melee heavy weapons team with their aptly-named Heavy Rock Weapons or as a chaff-destroying flamer team when given Hand Flamers. Without their special weapons Acolytes are inexpensive enough that they can be used as a melee horde with their stock cult knives and rending claws, but they aren’t quite as efficient at delivering mass rending attacks as their Elite counterparts.

    Basic Weapons

    -Cult Knife Standard issue melee weapon that provides a free attack with it each time the bearer fights, bringing standard Acolytes to 3 attacks total (2 rending and 1 knife). All Acolytes come equipped with one by default, though those taking special weapons lose theirs.

    -Rending Claw A Tyranid biomorph commonly found throughout the army, featuring -1 AP and the ability to jump to -4 AP on to-wound rolls of 6+. All Acolytes come equipped with one by default, though those taking special weapons lose theirs.

    - Autopistol: Standard-issue 12’’ range S3 pistol. Acolytes generally won't be shooting much due to their desire to close for melee, but these do give them some ranged capability at no additional cost.

    -Hand Flamer: For a modest price increase over the default Autopistol, Handflamers grant D6 shots that automatically hit. Entire squads so equipped are exceptionally good at burning down light infantry with a deluge of S3 hits, though are somewhat pricey.

    Special Weapons

    - Demolition Charges: Demolition Charges are S8 grenades with D6 shots, AP -3, and D3 damage per shot. Their crippling short range makes delivery a somewhat tricky business and generally means that the squad will be outside of range for accuracy enhancements. Furthermore, the grenade type limits the number that can be used to 1 per squad unless the Extra Explosives stratagem is used. As such, they are generally a poor option outside of MSU truck squads or as an add in to flamer squads that will be dropping in with the Lying in Wait stratagem

    - Rock Saw: Rock Saws are the cheapest and most general purpose of the three special melee weapons available to Acolytes. Being what amounts to a chainfist without any to-hit penalty, Rock Saws are designed to simply put damage on targets without frills or fuss. Of the three melee weapons, they are the best suited for chopping up multi-wound infantry due to their combination of accuracy and consistent 2 damage per blow backed by AP-4. They can also be used to threaten larger targets when used en-mass but will generally need some support to deal with especially large targets (such as Knights).

    - Rock Cutter: While superficially similar to a power fist with D3 damage and a penalty of -1 to hit rolls, Rock Cutters possess an extremely dangerous ability that is rarely seen. In short, whenever a model suffers damage from the weapon, a D6 is rolled and the result is compared to the model’s remaining wounds. If the roll exceeds the wounds remaining, the model is simply slain outright regardless of how many wounds it has remaining. This makes Rock Cutters a highly useful tool for dealing with models with wound negating abilities, monstrous creatures, characters, and non-vehicle models with 3 or more wounds (Custodes, Tyranid Warriors, Grotesques, Terminators, Nurglings, Scarabs, etc.) but less effective than Rock Saws against targets where their ability cannot trigger (vehicles, single wound models) or is less likely to trigger (2 wound models). Models wielding Rock Cutters will generally want to swing after the rest of their unit when attacking a larger target, to make it easier to hit the threshold needed to deliver the coup de grace.

    - Rock Drill: The most expensive of the three melee weapons, Rock Drills have the lowest initial damage per swing and lower AP than their counterparts but make up for it with their ability to potentially inflict multiple mortal wounds. For each drill that successfully inflicted 1 or more unsaved wounds, the controlling player may roll a D6 and inflict a mortal wound on a 2+, then on a 3+, 4+, 5+, and finally on a 6. This ability makes the drills primarily interested in dealing with high health targets and models with decent invulnerable saves, as they only require 1 wound to slip by in order to start the mortal wound chain and grind the target down.

    Other equipment

    -Bonesword: Only available to the Acolyte Leader, the Bonesword provides a fixed AP-2 weapon for a relatively low cost. It is a bit redundant with Rending Claws but is slightly better at slicing through single wound 3+ save models due to the better AP and doesn't replace any existing weapons.

    -Bonesword/Lash Whip: Same weapon as the above but paired with a Lash Whip which allows the Acolyte Leader to swing even if slain.

    -Cult Icon One Acolyte model per squad may take a Cult Icon for rerolls of 1's to hit in combat for the unit. This is generally best reserved for larger squads that both gain more benefit from having an icon and offer additional ablative bodies to keep the icon active longer.



    Neophyte Hybrids:
    Spoiler:

    Neophytes are the primary ranged troops of the Genestealer Cults. Unlike most of their counterparts, Neophytes have the unique ability to equip two special and two heavy weapons per squad even at minimum size. Neophytes have a surprising amount of weapon options and are fairly customizable, though for the most part Neophytes are primarily concerned with eliminating opposing light infantry with volumes of low strength firepower. Neophytes are somewhat more sensitive to creed selection than the other troops, favoring ones that lean more towards the "anvil" parts of the army.

    Basic Weapons

    -Autoguns: Standard-issue 24’’ range S3 Rapid Fire weapons. On their own Autoguns are fairly weak weapons but they are sufficient against opposing toughness 3 infantry when used en-mass and their range pairs well with the heavy weapon options available to the squad. As such, squads carrying heavy weapons will generally want them.

    -Shotguns: Shotguns are 12'' range Assault 2 S3 guns with the ability to add +1 strength when attacking at half range. While sacrificing the range of their rapid-fire counterparts, Shotguns are comparatively more mobile due to the assault type and are significantly more dangerous when they are able to get half-range shots.

    - Autopistol: Standard-issue 12’’ range S3 pistol. While it won’t come up often, it is worth remembering that Neophytes do come with them in the rare event the squad is stuck in an ongoing combat.

    Special Weapons

    - Flamers: Standard flamer with D6 S4 shots at 12'' range that automatically hit. With 9th edition price standardization and errata, these are more worth considering on shotgun or mining laser squads for charge defense.

    - Grenade Launcher: An excellent multi-role special weapon that offers either D6 S3 shots for hunting infantry or a single S6 AP-1 D3 damage shot if faced with a tougher target. In general, the weapon is more effective as an anti-infantry tool, but the multi-damage option is nice to keep in mind against heavy infantry or light vehicles.

    -Webber: An unusual weapon with D3 S4 shots at 16’’ range that automatically hit. As before, Webbers also come with a situationally useful ability to use the target’s strength characteristic in place of toughness when rolling to wound if the strength value is lower.

    Heavy Mining Weapons

    - Heavy Stubber: A cheap heavy weapon that offers 3 S4 shots with good range. Ideal for low investment squads dedicated to holding objectives.

    - Mining Laser: Effectively a short-ranged Lascannon (FAQ increased damage from D3 to D6) with the ability to be deployed in pairs. Mining Lasers offer anti-armor punch to an otherwise anti-infantry tailored squad. Due to their single-shot nature, they especially like the guiding hand of a nearby Jackal Alphus to improve accuracy.

    - Seismic Cannon: The Seismic Cannon is an unusual weapon that features two profiles depending on range. At 24’’ it features 6 S3 shots while at 12’’ and closer it drops to 3 shots at S6, Ap-1, and 2 damage. Regardless of firing profile any to-wound rolls of 6+ made by the weapon are resolved at AP-4, akin to the rending claws found throughout the army. The duel-nature of the weapon pairs especially well with grenade launchers due to very similar profiles, allowing the squad to maximize anti-infantry S3 shots or throw a surprising amount of S6 shots if confronted by heavy infantry or light vehicles.

    Leader Weapons and other equipment:

    - Cult Knife/Chainsword: Cheap and chipper basic melee weapon that provides an extra attack.

    - Power Maul: Adds a much appreciated strength boost to the Leader and a bit of AP capability, making him a credible threat to most infantry at a modest cost.

    - Power Pick: The Power Pick offers good AP and D3 damage but lacks an innate strength boost which means the poor S3 Leader will have difficulty wounding the multi-wound models it is designed to hurt without outside aid. Can be an effective weapon with outside assistance, but on its own is unreliable and rather expensive due to being shared with Aberrants.

    - Bolt Pistol: Effectively upgrades the Leader's autopistol to S4. Not a must have, but it makes sense for shotgun squads and is a good place to dump odd leftover points.

    - Web Pistol: The Web Pistol offers D3 S3 shots that automatically hit and the same ability as its larger counterpart. Again, not a must have, but a reasonable option for some extra firepower with a
    situationally useful ability.

    -Cult Icon One Neophyte in the unit may take a Cult Icon for rerolls of to-hit rolls of 1 in the fight phase. While Neophytes without outside assistance are rather poor melee fighters, there can be some merit with larger squads looking to leverage buffs, especially with Hivecult or Twisted Helix creeds.



    Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
    Spoiler:
    Brood Brothers were formerly AM themed Neophytes, but with the codex are now a distinct unit of their own. Brood Brothers Infantry squads are very similar to their stock Neophyte counterparts in most respects, trading the <cult> keyword and most of the weapon options available to Neophytes for the Brood Brothers keyword. Compared to infantry squads taken from Codex Astra Militarum, the GSC Brood Brothers squad gains a larger maximum unit size (20 vs 10), Cult Ambush, and the ability to double up on special weapons, but looses access to Plasma/Melta special weapons and cannot be issued Orders (FAQ).

    Brood Brothers are generally most useful for the creeds with traits that are more melee-centric in nature (such as Four-Armed Emperor), where they offer an inexpensive solution for the on-table presence and detachment troop requirements. They also can be used to bring additional long ranged fire support with their ability to include a weapon team in the squad, but their inability to benefit from the accuracy improvements in the codex due to their faction keyword limits some of their effectiveness at the role.

    Basic Weapons

    -Lasgun Standard-issue 24’’ range S3 Rapid Fire weapons. On their own Lasguns are fairly weak weapons but they are sufficient against opposing toughness 3 infantry when used en-mass.

    -Chainsword/Laspistol Standard-issue equipment for the squad leader. The Chainsword provides an additional attack while the Laspistol provides a single S3 shot at half range.

    Special Weapons:

    -Flamer: Standard Flamer with D6 S4 shots that automatically hit. Could have some merit on forward operating squads but is a bit pricy for general use.

    -Grenade Launcher: A multi-role weapon with the same general application as it has for Neophyte squads, offering D6 S3 shots for opposing infantry or a single S6 shot for heavy infantry and light vehicles.

    Heavy Weapons:

    -Heavy Bolter: A relatively ubiquitous long range heavy weapon with 3 S5 AP-1 shots. Cheap and reasonably multi-purpose though it prefers targeting heavy infantry to take advantage of its strength and AP.

    -Mortar: A cheap anti-infantry oriented heavy weapon with the unique ability to fire out of line of sight. Useful in cities of death and other circumstances where blocks line of sight terrain is plentiful.

    -Autocannon: Multi-purpose weapon offering 2 S7 shots with AP-1 and 2 damage per shot. Like the Heavy Bolter, the Autocannon is primarily oriented towards combating heavy infantry (especially 2 wound infantry), but the added strength and damage gives it a bit more capability against light vehicles than its counterpart.

    -Lascannon: The standard for long-range anti-tank armaments, featuring S9, Ap-3, and D6 damage per shot. While not terribly reliable due to the squad’s ballistic skill, it is an option for backfield squads looking to soften up enemy armor for melee squads to deal with.

    -Missile Launcher The missile launcher is more or less an upscaled grenade launcher with a S8 anti-tank shot or D6 S4 shots. A flexible weapon that can do a bit of everything but excels at nothing in particular.

    Misc. Equipment:

    -Vox Caster: Unlike its Astra Militarum counterpart which interacts with Orders, the Genestealer Cults Vox Caster instead grants a reroll for moral checks for a modest cost.





    FAST ATTACK:

    Atalan Jackals
    Spoiler:
    Neophytes mounted on dirt bikes! Atalan Jackals are ideally suited for the on-table presence for many lists, thanks to their speed and defensive capabilities. The Atalan dirtbikes ridden by the Jackals bestow the standard bike benefits of +1 toughness and +1 wound, as well as an impressive movement characteristic of 14’’. While they lack the integrated weapon mounts of most bike units, the Jackals instead benefit from a -1 to hit penalty imposed on enemy shooting through their Skilled Outriders ability.

    Unlike Neophytes, the weapon options available to Jackals almost exclusively focus on close range shooting and melee, making them far more aggressive in application than their footslogging counterparts. As such, they will generally be operating near the front lines as both infantry hunters and a tool to tie up opposing fire support in melee. Each standard Jackal must make two different selections from their weapon options, with the Jackal Leader having some additional options exclusive to themselves.

    Standard Weapons:

    -Autopistols: Standard-issue S3 pistol. All Jackals are equipped with one by default and can take a second one if desired as one of their two selections (FAQ). Pistols are one of the few options that the Jackal kit has in sufficient quantities to arm all models with out of the box, making them a fair choice for those who want to keep their models “what-you-see-is-what-you-get” without too much conversion work. Tactically, twin pistols allow squads to put out a the same amount of S3 fire as Shotguns at 12’’ with the ability to still fire while in close combat, making them potentially useful for squads dedicated to tie-up duties if nothing else.

    -Shotguns: Same as the shotguns carried by Neophytes, but on a far more nimble platform which allows them to take advantage of their added strength at half range ability with greater frequency. The ability to advance and fire coupled with the bonuses to advancing available to Jackals gives them a deceptively long threat range, potentially allowing for first turn engagements with a bit of help.

    -Grenade Launcher: Special weapon identical to the one carried by Neophyte squads, albeit restricted to 1-per-4 instead of 2-per-squad. Pairs well with Shotguns as another assault weapon that can take advantage of the Jackal’s high mobility, though will generally want to be reserved for larger squads that can protect them better.

    -Demolition Charges: Anti-tank explosives identical to the sort available to Acolytes, but without the restrictions on quantity. The high mobility of the Jackals compensates for the short range of Demolition Charges considerably. Squads maximizing their allotment of demolition charges are generally used more like a traditional ambusher and tend to be very command point hungry, but conversely have the potential to 1-round an Imperial Knight which is highly respectable for such a comparatively inexpensive squad (though Chapter Approved 2019 increased the cost of such squads considerably).

    -Improvised Weapon: Doesn’t have any unique rules outside of allowing one weapon slot to be filled for free and looking cool. Just a standard close combat weapon that happens to be a tool in non-combat instances (either a wrench or crowbar).

    -Cult Knife: Basic melee weapon that grants an additional attack. This is generally a good pick for the second weapon if one doesn't have other plans, as it effectively doubles the model’s attacks.

    -Power Pick: S user weapon with AP-2 and D3 damage. While they can be spammed, the low strength of Jackals coupled with the high cost makes them a bit unappealing compared to the other melee options available to the unit.

    Power Hammer: S+2 weapon with -1 AP and 1 damage per blow. While a bit odd compared to the Heavy Power Hammers wielded by Aberrants, the standard hammer makes up for the weedy S3 of the Jackal for a modest price.

    Leader-exclusive Weapons:

    -Autogun: Standard-issue S3 rapid fire gun with 24’’ range. On its own a single Autogun isn’t especially impressive but it can be paired with a shotgun to give the Jackal leader 4 S3 shots at 12’’ range.

    - Power Axe: Highly similar to the Power Pick, exchanging the D3 damage of the Pick for +1 strength and significantly reduced cost.

    -Bolt Pistol: Adds an additional pistol to the leader with a boost to S4.

    For every 4 regular bikers the unit may be accompanied by a Wolfquad ATV to provide heavy weapon support. The Wolfquad sports the same defensive capabilities as the cyclist counterparts with an additional 2 wounds to protect the heavy weapon mount. In addition to its heavy weapon, the Wolfquad rider can also take a Shotgun, Autopistol, Improvised Weapon, or a Power Pick.

    -Heavy Stubber: An inexpensive long-range anti-infantry weapon. Best used for squads looking to use their Wolfquad as ablative wounds for regular bikers (such as demolition squads), since the total cost per wound is cheaper than adding 2 regular bikes.

    -Mining Laser: Same S9 Ap-3 weapon as the footslogging Neophytes, though with the added advantage of mobility to compensate for the middling range. Offers additional anti-armor capability on a relatively durable platform with an extended range for the Alphus' accuracy enhancement.

    - Atalan Incinerator: A compact version of the Rockgrinder’s Clearance Incinerator, offering a 12’’ range heavy flamer to the squad. Ideal for ambushing squads focusing on chaff clearance.



    Achilles Ridgerunner
    Spoiler:
    The Achilles Ridgerunner is a light vehicle designed to lend concentrated fire support with an assortment of heavy weapons. While the Ridgerunner is rather fragile with 8 T5 wounds and a 4+ armor save, they possess the ability to be deployed in squadrons of up to 3 vehicles, have no degradation table, and are relatively inexpensive post Chapter Approved 2019. It is also worth noting that the Ridgerunner is a remarkably squat vehicle, allowing it to hide more easily than many similar-sized models and potentially benefit from barricades and other terrain features where cover can be obtained through being obscured.

    In general, the Ridgerunner prefers to be run in squadrons to maximize the effectiveness of certain force multipliers and ambush tokens. They also, appropriately enough, like being paired with Atalan Jackal packs which offer screening potential and benefit from the Ridgerunner’s Flare Launcher (detailed below). The Ridgerunner itself may perform a free 9’’ move before the game begins (provided they did not deploy via Ambush) which allows them to redeploy out of sight or aggressively up the field depending on who has initiative.

    Weapons:
    - Heavy Mining Laser: Highly similar to its infantry-portable counterparts, with the advantage of slightly more range and D3 shots. This is generally the default armament for the Ridgerunner, it is one of the best ranged anti-armor options available to the codex and provides a good counterpart to the built-in heavy stubbers.

    - Heavy Mortar: Cheapest of the three primary weapons with D6 S5 Ap-1 shots that do not require line of sight. While its firepower is rather negligible, the ability to ignore line of sight is situationally useful and as the cheapest weapon option the mortar is ideal for Ridgerunners that are being taken exclusively for flare launchers to sling Atalan Jackals up the field.

    - Missile Launcher: Standard missile launcher with either a single S8 AP-2 D6 damage shot or D6 S4 shots. While it offers flexibility at a modest cost, the two firing modes are inferior to those offered by the more specialized weapon options available to the Ridgerunner, so it is generally best avoided.

    Other equipment:

    - Flare Launcher: Provides a 6+ wound negation ability and grants a once-per-game ability that allows one nearby <cult> Biker unit to advance a full 6'' without needing to roll. Of the three systems this has the most utility for mechanized lists incorporating lots of Goliath hulls for 6+ wound negation saturation as well as lists making heavy use of Atalan Jackals.

    - Survey Auger: The most expensive of the equipment options, the Survey Auger allows the Achillies weapon systems to ignore cover. Useful as a countermeasure against counts-in-cover armies such as Hive Fleet Jormungandr or Raven Guard but is otherwise a rather niche piece of equipment.

    - Spotter: A Neophyte crew woman who increases the range on all weapon systems. The improved range is a valuable asset for keeping the Ridgerunner alive, as it allows it to attack from outside of retaliation range of most threats. A good option for lists that are not bringing many other vehicles or Jackals.


    Cult Sentinels (Armored and Scout):
    Spoiler:
    Light walkers “on loan” from the local Astra Militarum. Regardless of version, Sentinels provide relatively cheap heavy weapon platforms with greater durability than infantry weapon teams. The primary difference between the two models is the Armored Sentinel sports T6 , a rare-in-faction 3+ save, and the ability to take an equally rare Plasma Cannon while the Scout Sentinel has a 4+ save and T5 in exchange for +1'' of movement and the ability to make a free move before the first battle round. This means Scout Sentinels will generally be playing more aggressively forward in support of tunneling infantry while Armored Sentinels will generally be lurking near the backfield to provide fire support. Either version can be taken in squadrons 1-3 for threat saturation.

    - Heavy Flamer: Standard Heavy Flamer with D6 S5 shots and AP -1. Ideal for Scout Sentinels as the only weapon that doesn't care about movement. Less ideal for Armored Sentinels due to very short range and reduced mobility.

    - Multi-Laser: A S6 anti-infantry weapon with good range and low cost. The Multi-Laser is the default armament and is a fair option for hunting T3 infantry, but lack of AP makes it rather ineffective against units in cover or heavy infantry.

    - Autocannon: Mid-priced weapon good against multi-wound infantry and light vehicles. Lends fire saturation with the Autocannons found elsewhere in the codex and is a fairly good weapon against MEQ models and light vehicles.

    - Plasma Cannon: (Armored Sentinel Only) Same cost and strength as the Autocannon but with better AP in exchange for lower damage and D3 shots instead of a fixed 2. Can overcharge like other plasma weapons for +1 Strength and Damage but destroys the Sentinel if any 1's are rolled to-hit. As Brood Brothers taken from Codex: Genestealer Cults lack the means to modify these shooting rolls, this should be used sparingly or when the Sentinel is already critically damaged.

    - Lascannon: The premier long-range anti-tank weapon across the Imperium. Not a bad option for a backfield Armored Sentinel, but single-shot weapons on a BS 4+ platform without dice modification tend to disappoint and the Ridgerunner can deliver a higher volume of fire for a modest amount of added points.

    - Missile Launcher: Half the cost of the Lascannon with a S8 anti-tank Krak shot or D6 S4 Frag shots. Gives the Sentinel some flexibility but doesn’t excel at any one job.

    Other Equipment:
    -Hunter Killer Missile: A single-shot Krak missile for a reduced price compared to a Missile Launcher proper.

    -Sentinel Chainsaw: A melee weapon with AP-1. Has some merit on Scout Sentinels acting in support of tunneling squads, but otherwise is of limited use for units predominately intended for fire support.



    DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:

    Cult Chimera:
    Spoiler:
    Unlike its index counterpart, the Cult Chimera is now a Brood Brothers unit and can only transport Brood Brothers infantry as a result. While it is no longer the premiere assault transport it once was, it still excels at infantry clearance with its plethora of weapon systems and is surprisingly durable for its cost between its innate armor, toughness, and smoke launchers. The chimera must take a single turret heavy weapon and one hull mounted heavy weapon, with the following options.

    -Multi-Laser Turret only. The Multi-Laser is the cheapest turret mount and effectively trades the AP of the Heavy Bolter for S6.

    -Heavy Bolter Hull or Turret. Offers the same reach as the Multi-Laser but with the benefit of armor piercing for a modest cost.

    -Heavy Flamer Hull or Turret. While the Heavy Flamer has the shortest range of the available heavy weapons and is the most expensive, it has the very tangible benefit of automatically hitting its targets. Ideal doubled up on an aggressive Chimera dedicated to chaff clearing duties.
    Other Equipment:

    -Hunter Killer Missile: A single-shot Krak missile for a reduced price compared to a Missile Launcher proper.

    -Heavy Stubber: Additional anti-infantry weapon that can be mounted on the Chimera’s turret. Cheap and offers long reach for a Chimera desiring to hang-back, but as a heavy weapon suffers accuracy penalties upon moving.

    -Storm Bolter: Additional anti-infantry weapon for the Chimera turret. Storm Bolters throw a surprising number of shots up close and as a rapid-fire weapon are unaffected by movement, making it a better option for more-aggressive Chimeras.

    - Auger Array: Cheap equipment option that bestows a once-per-game reroll of a single to-hit roll. Could have some merit in conjunction with a Hunterkiller missile, but the other weapon systems see little benefit from it.

    -Dozer Blade: A cheap melee upgrade that confers +1 to hit rolls on the turn in which the Chimera charges. While a Chimera might very well charge in order to shield a squad from overwatch fire, it still needs a 5+ to hit even with this upgrade and a few extra S6 hits probably won't be enough to justify the points investment.

    -Track Guards: A cheap upgrade that allows the vehicle to ignore movement penalties incurred by the damage table. Almost mandatory for an aggressive Chimera to maintain mobility, less important for ones sitting back lending fire support.


    Goliath Truck:
    Spoiler:
    Goliath Trucks serve as the primary transport available to <cult> units. They offer surprisingly good offensive capabilities with a Twin-Autocannon and Heavy Stubber, giving it reasonable multi-purpose firepower and good range for a transport vehicle. While defensively the Goliath lacks the toughness and armor of its military counterpart with T6 and a 4+ save, its Rugged Construction special rule grants it the ability to negate unsaved wounds on a 6+. Furthermore, its Open Topped ability allows passengers to use their ranged weapons while embarked which lends some added utility to the Goliath as a transport that can shield units while allowing them to contribute offensively.

    The sole upgrade option available to a Goliath Truck is the Cache of Demolition Charges, granting it an Assault D6 S8 weapon while a unit is embarked. The added firepower gives the Goliath some ability to take on other vehicles at close range, but the requirement of a passenger means it is most often best reserved for vehicles transporting units with short-ranged firepower of their own (such as Acolytes with demolition charges/hand flamers or shotgun Neophytes).



    HEAVY SUPPORT:

    Brood Brothers Heavy Weapon Team
    Spoiler:
    Identical to the Heavy Weapon Teams found in Brood Brothers squads, just without the other accompanying infantry. On their own, Heavy Weapon Teams provide extremely cheap fire support and brigade filler, though in turn they are extremely fragile to retaliation with only 2 T3 wounds and a 5+ save to protect each gun. Due to this fragility, Weapon Teams are generally given mortars thanks to the ability to fire out of line of sight.


    Goliath Rockgrinder:
    Spoiler:
    The Goliath Rockgrinder serves as a melee line breaker vehicle with an impressive 6 attacks base and a modest transport capacity with which to carry small squads into assault range. It features a defensive profile very similar to its Goliath Truck counterpart, with an increase to T7 but otherwise featuring the same 4+ armor and 6+ Rugged Construction as the dedicated transport version. The vehicle's primary armament consists of the rather unsubtle Drilldozer Blade at the front, which adds an additional D3 attacks on turns in which the Rockgrinder successfully charged and hits at S8 AP-2 with D3 damage. While effective against both infantry and larger targets, the Rockgrinder's (admittedly better-than-usual-for-a-vehicle) WS of 4+ means it really wants a Primus nearby to maximize its potential once in melee.

    In addition to its melee weaponry, the Rockgrinder also features a heavy weapon mount with three industrial weapon options to choose from in addition to a Heavy Stubber.

    - Clearance Incinerator: The Clearance Incinerator is effectively a heavy flamer with 12'' range and 2D6 shots that automatically hit. It is ideal for an aggressive Rockgrinder intent on getting itself or its cargo into combat as quickly as possible since they can move while still being able to fire to full effect without requiring the assistance of a Jackal Alphus. Being a weapon that automatically hits its targets also makes it the sole weapon option that is unaffected by the Rockgrinder's damage table, allowing it to fire at full effect even when the vehicle is on its last bracket on the damage table.

    - Heavy Seismic Cannon: The sole weapon option available to the Rockgrinder that offers a fixed rate of fire. Like its infantry-portable counterpart, the Heavy Seismic Cannon features the ability to ignore most armor on to-wound rolls of 6+ and offers a choice of between firing at 24’’ with a Heavy 6 S4 with AP -1 and 2 damage per shot or 12'' at Heavy 3 S8 AP -2 with 3 damage per shot, making it rather flexible in targeting capabilities.

    - Heavy Mining Laser: Identical to the weapon found on the Achilles, the Heavy Mining Laser offers the longest range of the three heavy weapon mounts and the highest damage potential, at the cost of the lowest rate of fire. It is a reasonable option for a Rockgrinder being used predominately for armor hunting, but its low rate of fire makes it comparatively vulnerable to the Rockgrinder damage table compared to the other weapons, necessitating the use of the Devoted Crew stratagem to function at full efficiency once damaged.

    - Cache of Demolition Charges: Optional weapon that may be taken in addition to one of the three heavy mining weapons above. As the Rockgrinder will generally want to get close to foes the Cache has more utility than on the more stand-off Goliath Truck but has the slight drawback of more limited passenger options to activate it due to the Rockgrinder's reduced carrying capacity. Pairs especially well with the Heavy Seismic Cannon as a source of additional S8 shots at close range.


    Cult Leman Russ:
    Spoiler:
    The heaviest vehicle available natively to the Genestealer Cults, the Cult Leman Russ offers a blend of durability and firepower. Its Grinding Advance ability allows it to fire its main turret-mounted cannon twice if it moves at half speed or remains stationary, while the vehicle itself has the highest concentration of heavy weaponry available in-codex. Compared to its counterparts from the Astra Militarum book the Cult Russ looses access to some turret weapons and the benefits of a Tank Commander, but does gain Cult Ambush which can be useful for insuring that it can set up with good lines of fire away from the opponent's heaviest concentrations of anti-tank weapons.

    Turret Weapons

    - Battle Cannon: In most instances this will be the go-to gun option unless one has something more specific in mind, as it offers the highest strength and flexibility of the three weapons at the lowest cost.

    - Eradicator Nova Cannon: The Eradicator trades the strength of the other turret mounts for the ability to ignore cover, making it ideal for rooting marines and similar high save models out of cover in hard to reach places.

    - Exterminator Autocannon: Effectively the same armament as a Goliath Truck with the ability to fire twice due to Grinding Advance and on a more durable platform. Perhaps worth considering if spamming autocannons or as a makeshift anti-air tool, but otherwise doesn’t offer anything unique.

    - Vanquisher Battle Cannon: A variant of the battle cannon that trades rate of fire for D6 damage and the ability to roll two dice/take the highest on damage rolls. Due to the accuracy of the Cult Russ, the battlecannon will generally be a superior choice despite each individual shot having lower damage.

    Secondary Weapons

    -Heavy Bolter (Hull and/or Side): The least expensive option available to fill the hull mount, Heavy Bolters offer some added anti-infantry firepower to supplement the main cannon. Can also be taken as side-mounted guns for additional firepower.

    -Lascannon: (Hull) The most expensive of the hull-mounted weapons, offering a long-range anti-tank shot to supplement the main turret mount. Best suited to anti-armor configurations.

    -Heavy Flamer: (Hull) Mid-priced option offering an auto-hitting weapon with very short range. The primary purpose of a Heavy Flamer for a Russ is charge deterrence, as in most circumstances they should be near the back field well out of range.

    -Multimeltas: (Side) Unique to the Cult Russ, Multimeltas offer additional S8 AP-4 shots for armor hunting. They are rather pricy however, and the chassis itself is already one of the most expensive units in-codex.

    -Plasma Cannons (Side) Offers additional S7 firepower with good AP and a reasonable rate of fire. Can also be overcharged for added strength and damage, though any 1’s to hit will result in mortal wounds from the Emergency Plasma Vents (FAQ).

    Other Equipment:

    -Hunter Killer Missile: A single-shot Krak missile for a reduced price compared to a Missile Launcher proper.

    -Heavy Stubber: Additional anti-infantry weapon ubiquitous in the army. Offers an additional anti-infantry weapon with similar range bands to the other weapon systems found on a Russ for cheap.

    -Storm Bolter: Additional anti-infantry weapon. While capable of laying down an impressive hail of fire, due to the Cult Russ generally preferring to lurk near the backfield the full firepower of the Storm Bolter is unlikely to be realized.

    - Auger Array: Cheap equipment option that bestows a once-per-game reroll of a single to-hit roll. The weapon systems of a Russ are more likely to see benefit from this than the Chimera, especially if it features a hull-mounted Lascannon or Multimelta sponsons.

    -Dozer Blade: Grants +1 to hit rolls on a turn in which the vehicle charges. A Cult Russ ideally does not want to be anywhere near combat (waste of a fire support asset), so this upgrade is of very limited use to it.

    -Track Guards: A cheap upgrade that allows the vehicle to ignore movement penalties incurred by the damage table. Russes generally aren’t concerned with moving due to their role as fire support, but it is a nice option to insure they have the option to move a fair distance and still employ Grinding Advance after sustaining damage.



    FORTIFICATIONS:

    Tectonic Fragdrill
    Spoiler:
    The Tectonic Fragdrill is an unusual combination of support structure, area denial, and a once per game nuke (albeit not an especially dangerous one). The first and most useful of its abilities is the Underground Ingress, which allows one GSC unit that can end its move within 1’’ of the drill to leave the table and be redeployed via Cult Ambush next turn. This has some applications for more ambush-centric builds as a means of getting more units into reserves after deployment (in conjunction with They Came From Below) or as a tool to rapidly relocate a backfield squad without burning command points on Return To Shadows.

    The drill's second ability involves it being activated by a controlling model. When activated, all units on the ground floor within 3’’ of the drill suffer D3 mortal wounds. Then, the controller rolls a D6 and adds one to the result for each instance of a drill being activated. On a 1-6 the drill reduces charge and advance rolls by 2’’ in a 12’’ radius of itself. On a 7+, the drill also triggers an earthquake consisting of a line drawn from any two table edges with the drill interesting at some point. Any unit on ground level (not in the upper levels of a building or with the Fly keyword) passed over by the line must roll a D6: on a 4+ the unit suffers D3 mortal wounds and must halve its movement characteristic until the next GSC movement phase. The earthquake sadly can only be triggered once per game regardless of the number of drills being employed, but the ability to disrupt charges is a potentially useful feature against opponents who favor deep striking assault such as Orks, Daemons, or Tyranids.



    Warlord Traits:
    Spoiler:

    Legendary Fighter: (main rulebook)
    Warlord gains +1 attack on turns in which they charge. This trait is somewhat obsolete with the introduction of the Biomorph Adaptation trait in the codex, which provides a constant +1 attack and +1 strength. The only instance this is likely to be of use is in conjunction with the Brood Coven stratagem to give a Primus (or Magus) access to +1 attack after the Patriarch has taken the Biomorph Adaptation trait.

    Inspiring Leader: (main rulebook)
    Warlord gains a +1 Ld aura. The primary application of this trait for a Patriarch (who otherwise provides moral immunity to troops in range of the leadership bubble) lies in increasing the threshold for Mental Onslaught, resulting in potentially disastrous damage to a target. For other characters, this is most useful for an Iconward acting in support of Neophytes and anyone tasked with babysitting Aberrants who otherwise must make do with Ld 7.

    Tenacious Survivor: (main rulebook)
    Warlord gains 6+ FNP ability. Useful on a Magus or Primus Warlord as they lack invulnerable saves (outside of Bladed Cog) and in the case of the former provides a bit of protection from Perils of the Warp. Confers no benefit to an Iconward or Abominant, due to their already possessing FNP abilities which do not stack with Tenacious Survivor (FAQ).

    Focus of Adoration:
    Warlord allows nearby Genestealer Cult Infantry units to perform Heroic Interventions as if they were characters. This has some interesting applications since it allows unengaged units to pile into a fight if the opposing charger ends their move within 3'' and per the assault rules the intervening unit cannot be chosen as targets for attack unless they were included as charge targets during the charge phase, effectively allowing for risk-free combat for the turn and leaves the victim locked down on your turn to deal with as you see fit. The biggest limitation is the short range for Heroic Interventions and relatively few things having any desire to get into combat with GSC models to begin with. Pairs very nicely with the Pauper Princes cult creed.

    Shadow Stalker:
    Enemies must subtract 1 from hit rolls that target the Warlord. Notably affects both shooting and melee. All GSC characters can take advantage of this, though it is especially handy for a Jackal Alphus who can stack it with the penalty provided by their Skilled Rider ability for a -2 to hit.

    Biomorph Adaptation:
    The warlord gains +1 strength and attack. Any of the melee-oriented characters can take advantage of this, though it is especially liked by a Patriarch.

    Born Survivor:
    Reduces damage inflicted on the warlord by 1 (to a minimum of 1). While any of the characters can appreciate a damage reduction, this is especially cruel on an Abominant warlord as it stacks with the innate -1 damage provided by their Bestial Vigor ability, meaning anything less than 4 damage will inflict but a single wound.

    Alien Majesty:
    Increases the aura abilities of the warlord by 3’’. As all GSC characters have some sort of bubble effects, this is a very handy ability indeed. It is especially well liked by characters that have multiple effects that benefit from the increased range, such as the Patriarch, Primus, Iconward (especially with one of their unique relics), or Abominant.

    Preternatural Speed:
    Grants the ability to always fight first regardless of charging with the standard caveats regarding fighting units with the same ability. Cannot be given to a Locus warlord (who has this ability innately), and if randomly generated the result is treated as being the Biomorph Adaptation trait instead.

    Inscrutable Cunning (Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor)
    Once per battle, if the Warlord is on the battlefield one hit, wound, or saving throw may be rerolled. In addition, the army gains D3 additional starting command points.
    This is a very straightforward warlord trait that provides an element of command point efficiency, with one “free” command point reroll and D3 extra command points to work with. Primary drawback being that it is of finite benefit rather than an ongoing effect like the others, but still highly useful.

    Hivelord (Hivecult)
    Allows nearby friendly Hivecult units to reroll to-hit rolls of 1 while shooting.
    The effects of this trait pair very well with the existing +1 to hit benefit provided by a Jackal Alphus and the effects of the Hivecult’s signature stratagem, resulting in a barrage of surprisingly accurate firepower.

    Single-Minded Obsession (Bladed Cog)
    Before the battle begins, the Warlord may nominate 1 enemy unit. All friendly Bladed Cog units within range may reroll all failed to-wound rolls when attacking that target.
    Effectively an upgraded version of the Primus’ Meticulous Planner ability and can be used in conjunction with said ability to nominate two different targets for dice modification. A very useful trait against an opponent with a key target to destroy (Knight, named character, etc.) and at worst a handy boon against the opposing warlord.

    Entropic Touch (Rusted Claw)
    Friendly Rusted Claw units within range of the warlord improve their AP by 1 for melee attacks that roll an unmodified 6 to wound. This trait is most useful for units that rely on weapons other than rending claws, as it is a bit redundant with their ability (-5 AP vs -4 AP only matters vs 2+ armor). Still, there are a surprising number of units that can benefit from this trait, including Aberrants, Metamorphs, Rockgrinders, and Atalan Jackals kitted for combat.

    Beloved Grandsire (Pauper Princes)
    The Warlord adds 2 to Unquestioning Loyalty rolls made on their behalf, effectively allowing them to pass off damage on a 2+ instead of the usual 4+.
    An extremely useful trait for warlord preservation, provided enough fodder is available to pass wounds off on. Patriarchs especially like this trait, as it allows them to be far more aggressive than normal and remain relatively safe.

    Bio-Alchemist (Twisted Helix)
    Increases the damage characteristic of non-relic augmented weapons used by the Warlord by 1.
    A useful ability for any character, though it specifically does not allow its effects to apply to weapons already being improved by a relic. This includes things like the Scourge of Distant Stars in addition to more conventional relics. Still, a highly useful trait given that it augments both the model’s range and melee attacks without using a relic slot. Especially amusing on a Kelermorph (where it bolsters both their blade and guns), Abominant (where it effects the attached Mindwyrm familiar as well) or Patriarch (who already has high damage as is).


    Relics:
    Spoiler:

    Icon of the Cult Ascendant:
    Only available to Iconwards. <cult> Infantry and Bike units near the barer gain +1 to their Strength characteristic. Simple but effective relic that provides an additional support functionality to an Iconward and stacks nicely with the assortment of strength buffs available to the faction.

    Sword of the Void’s Eye:
    Only available to a Primus. The Sword of the Void’s Eye is a relic bonesword with heavily upgraded stats and the ability to reroll all failed hit and wound rolls. A good option for those looking to upgrade a Primus to a dedicated melee fighter rather than a support piece.

    Amulet of the Voidwyrm
    An interesting relic that allows the bearer to add one to their saving throws against shooting and ignore overwatch when attempting a charge. Does not replace existing wargear, giving it a great deal of flexibility in what characters can take it. Custom made for a Patriarch or Sanctus, though any of the melee characters can appreciate the added durability and ability to negate overwatch.

    Scourge of Distant Stars:
    Provides +1 to hit rolls for the model’s melee weapons and causes mortal wounds to attacking models in melee whenever they roll a natural 1 to hit. An ideal option for an Abominant, as it counteracts the -1 to hit imposed by their sledgehammer and provides an additional defensive trick on an already tanky model. Other melee characters find it of limited use as most hit on a 2+ anyway.

    Oppressors Bane
    A relic version of a Liberator Autostub that replaces a model’s autopistol or Liberator autostub. The Oppressors Bane benefits from an additional shot and AP over the stock version and confers the character-sniping abilities of a Kelermorph to the bearer. Furthermore, attacks made with the weapon gain the ability to reroll-to-wound rolls when targeting characters. While it can be given to a Kelermorph to enhance one of their guns, it also has merit for the autopistol wielding support characters (Clamavus, etc.) as a means of improving their otherwise negligible offensive capabilities and offer another source of character sniping capability.

    Dagger of Swift Sacrifice
    Replaces a model’s Cult Knife or Sanctus Bio-Dagger with an upgraded blade that always wounds non-vehicle or titanic models on a 2+ and inflicts an additional D3 mortal wounds if its target is a character and survives the initial attack. As the Sanctus Bio-Dagger already mirrors most of the functions of the relic, this is best reserved for other knife-equipped characters (Magus, Kelermorph, Alphus) that appreciate the ability to wound on a 2+ with their basic melee weapon.

    The Crouchling
    An upgraded familiar for a Patriarch or Magus that confers +1 to casting rolls while manifesting a Brood Mind discipline power and provides 1 additional Brood Mind power while alive. Effectively adds half a psyker for a significantly reduced cost and improves reliability of casting.

    Gift From Beyond
    An upgraded Sniper Rifle that provides +2 to wound rolls when attacking a non-vehicle or non-titanic target, allowing most infantry to be wounded on a 2+ and the sniper rifle mortal wound ability to trigger on a 4+. Extremely useful for a Sanctus dedicated to Psyker elimination, as it allows them to consistently inflict mortal wounds to trigger their perils of the warp inducing ability.

    Sword Of the Four-Armed Emperor
    Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor Locus or Primus only. A very unusual upgraded bonesword that provides 4 additional attacks whenever the bearer fights. Especially interesting on the Primus as it effectively allows them to make full attacks with both their melee weapons.

    Vockor’s Talisman
    Hivecult only. Allows the bearer to reroll hit rolls in the fight phase against enemy characters and causes mortal wounds on to-wound rolls of 6+, provided the target is not a vehicle or titanic model. As the sole melee enhancement offered by Hivecult, this relic offers an interesting option for a Patriarch as it synergizes remarkably well with Monstrous Rending Claws.

    Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah
    Bladed Cog only. Confers a 4+ Invulnerable save and on a 2+ inflicts 1 mortal wound on an enemy unit within 1’’ after completing a charge move. Due to the associated cult creed, it in actuality provides a 3+ Invulnerable save for most characters and the 4+ only on a Patriarch. An attractive relic for a durable warlord, especially on an Abominant which can leverage its already impressive durability as an imitation of the infamous “smash captains” of the Space Marines.

    Metallophagic Staff
    Rusted Claw Magus only. Upgrades the Magus’ staff of office with a staggering AP -5 and an ability that inflicts 1 mortal wound against vehicles on a to-wound roll of 4+ or D3 mortal wounds on a roll of 6+. As a Magus generally does not actively seek out combat, this relic is more for fluff purposes than general usage (in part due to competition with the other relics).

    Reliquary of Saint Tenndarc
    Pauper Princes only. Friendly Pauper Princes models within range automatically pass moral. Furthermore, whenever an infantry or biker unit in range is slain, on a 4+ they may make a shooting attack or melee attack before being removed as a casualty. This is a useful tool for keeping squads in the fight and continues the Pauper Princes theme of maximizing damage potential. Best taken on a non-Patriarch model to avoid redundant moral immunity.

    Elixir Of The Prime Specimen:
    Twisted Helix Only. Provides +1 Attack, +1 Toughness, and +1 wound. An impressive set of stat boosts combined with the innate strength boost provided by the creed. Ideal for a Patriarch or Abominant to leverage their already impressive stats.



    Stratagems:
    Despite being a relatively small army, the Genestealer Cults have a dizzying array of stratagems available to them. As such, the following stratagems have been grouped based on the book in which they were published.


    Codex: Genestealer Cults
    Spoiler:

    Clandestine Goals
    Cheap stratagem used before the battle if the mission uses the Malestorm of War rules. For the duration of the battle, the player’s hand of objectives is hidden from their opponent until individual objectives are achieved. Strategically, this makes it harder for the opponent to prevent scoring attempts and allows for “bluffing”, though a canny opponent will probably be able to figure out what you are doing based on your actions. Still, it is a significant advantage and is mostly unique (Dark Angels being the other) so is worthwhile to consider.

    Grandsire’s Gifts
    Standard extra relic stratagem. Nothing fancy, though seeing as GSC has several good relics to choose from it will likely see heavier use than many of its counterparts.

    Broodcoven
    Cheap stratagem used at the beginning of the game if the player has a Patriarch warlord. If they do, they may select 1 Magus and 1 Primus to also generate warlord traits, though they are only treated as the warlord for the purposes of the ability (i.e. the Patriarch is the one that gives up Slay the Warlord if slain, not his underlings). Very similar to the abilities that allow additional warlord traits in the Imperial Knight and Drukhari codices, offering a bit of compensation for the restrictions imposed by the Broodfather rule. Note that as of this current writing this stratagem does not require that the Magus and Primus belong to the same <cult> as the Patriarch warlord, allowing for some shenanigans with mixed creed armies.

    Lurk in the Shadows
    Moderate cost stratagem used at the start of the opponent’s shooting phase. For the duration, one selected GSC infantry unit in terrain cannot be targeted by ranged attacks unless they are the closest target. The terrain requirement makes it a bit more situational than similar stratagems in other armies but can be useful for protecting a key squad coming out of ambush provided it is dropped in cover and there is a closer target.

    Hyper Metabolism
    Cheap stratagem that restores D3 wounds to targeted GSC character. Standard regeneration stratagem, albeit limited to characters only and cheaper to use as a result. GSC has a lot of useful characters so this has some utility in keeping them in play if they suffer incidental injury, especially psykers who are prone to suffering perils of the warp.

    Sensor Decoys
    Cheap once-per-game stratagem that deploys an additional 3 ambush tokens when a unit is set up in ambush (meaning 4 tokens total are dropped). The additional tokens are then removed after the last ambushing unit is deployed. While not something that will be used every game, it is a useful tool to create additional deployment options and can be used as insurance against Phobos infiltrators.

    Meticulous Uprising
    Cheap stratagem used before revealing an ambush marker. If used, up to 3 markers can be moved to a new location within 12’’ of their original position provided they remain more than 9’’ from enemy models and entirely within the deployment zone. The primary use for this stratagem is as a tool to adapt deployments against units with the ability to drop uncomfortably close to your deployment zone, such as Primaris Infiltrators or Ork units teleported via Da Jump. With it, the markers can simply be shifted away from the offending units to deny them targets. Not something that will be used every game, but a useful tool to keep in mind for the match ups where it can help.

    They Came From Below…
    Cheap stratagem that allows the player to choose 3 non-vehicle units and set them up underground instead of revealing them at an ambush token once per game (FAQ). In matched play this also bypasses the ordinary restrictions on no more than half the army being able to be set up in reserves (FAQ), making it useful for increasing the number of units arriving via the tunnels beyond what is normally permissible. Units put into reserves with this stratagem still must obey other aspects of the matched play reserve rules, so they cannot be set up on the table until turn 2 and must be set up by turn 3. (FAQ)

    A Perfect Ambush
    Expensive stratagem used when a unit with the Cult Ambush special rule is set-up from ambush or tunnels (FAQ). That unit can either shoot as if it was the shooting phase (and shoot again in the following shooting phase if applicable) or move D6’’ even if it arrived from reserves that turn. Effectively an on demand version of result #5 from the old ambush table, this stratagem is an extremely powerful tool. Due to the high command point cost it will generally be reserved to improve charge distances for key assault squads emerging from ambush, but the secondary free shooting attack can also be useful for certain units (generally in conjunction with other stratagems). As mentioned previously, the Sanctus can use this stratagem at no cost each turn if desired, but must obey other rules governing its use.

    Lying in Wait
    Medium cost stratagem that allows a unit arriving from underground to be placed >3’’ away from enemy models rather than >9’’, at the cost of not being able to initiate a charge that turn. A very useful tool that can be used to insure short ranged weaponry can be brought to bear or a as a means to prevent enemies from being able to withdraw by dropping in behind an assault target. Cannot be used on the first turn of the game (FAQ).

    Devoted Crew
    Cheap stratagem used at the beginning of a turn (either player’s). Until the end of that turn, a selected vehicle may use the top row of their damage table rather than whatever bracket they currently are (naturally ending if the vehicle is reduced to 0 wounds). This is especially appreciated by the Goliath Rockgrinder to regain its full melee capabilities and mobility or a Cult Russ to regain their accuracy.

    Monstrous Vigor
    Moderate cost stratagem used at the start of the GSC player’s turn. Until their next turn, a selected Aberrant unit gains +1 to their Bestial Vigor rolls. A simple stratagem that provides a durability boost on what is already a high value squad for a turn. That said, it does incentivize taking one larger squad rather than multiple smaller ones, as otherwise a canny opponent will ignore the unit under the effect and target an unenhanced unit instead. Still, given the sort of targets Aberrants tend to be tailored for, the extra durability can make the difference.

    The First Curse
    Cheap stratagem used before the battle and can only be used once per battle. When used, a selected unit of Purestrain Genestealers gains the benefits of a random Tyranid biomorph for the duration of the battle, with Toxin Sacs on a 1-2, Adrenal Glands on a 3-4, and Extended Carapaces on a 5-6. While each individual item has utility (and an associated point value in the Tyranid codex – making up some of the cost discrepancy), the inherent randomness does limit some of the applications since the exact biomorph set can vary from game to game and drastically alter how the unit behaves in the case of a 5-6.

    Also as a bit of random trivia, this references the 7th edition formation of the same name and same effect.

    Cult Reinforcements
    Cheap stratagem that replenishes a random number of casualties to a selected GSC infantry unit with the troops battlefield role. The most obvious benefit of this stratagem is its effects on objective scoring, with the replenished models improving the claim on a given objective but can also be used to bring back special models (leader, icon, weapons).

    Telepathic Summons
    Cheap stratagem used in the psychic phase. In place of casting any powers, the targeted psyker may instead roll 3D6. One <cult> infantry or biker unit with the cult ambush ability may then be added to the army, provided the power level of that unit is less than or equal to the result rolled (and reinforcement points are available in the case of matched play). The unit then immediately deploys per cult ambush.

    Formerly a psychic power, the new Telepathic summons allows a player to bypass turn-1 deep strike restrictions and pull in a unit tailored to deal with the opponent. It is especially useful for summoning any of the assassination characters (Kelermorph, Sanctus, Locus) depending on the needs of the battle as well as more specialized squads (Metamorphs) that benefit from being configured to deal with specific targets.

    Rigged to Blow
    Cheap stratagem used with a Goliath Truck or Goliath Rockgrinder with a demolition cache is destroyed. The vehicle automatically detonates rather than rolling to see if it explodes. Of the two, this is more likely to come into play with the Goliath Truck as they are more likely to equip a cache in the first place (to be used with Acolyte demo teams), but conversely is more useful for a Rockgrinder owing to their melee nature likely leaving them surrounded with potential victims for a detonation. In either case, has no effective if no vehicles with demolition caches are present which limits its utility to specific builds.

    Detonate Concealed Explosives
    Moderate cost “nuke” stratagem used at the start of the shooting phase provided at least 1 GSC unit is present. If used, the player may select an enemy unit and roll a D6, adding to the roll if the target unit has more than 10 models and subtracting from the roll against a character. On a 4+, the target suffers D3 mortal wounds, while on a 7+ it instead suffers D6 mortal wounds. The primary benefit of this stratagem is that it has no range or line-of-sight restrictions and due to not being an attack can be used to bypass abilities that prevent a unit from being targeted (Cloud of Flies, Lurk in Shadows, etc.). Unlike other "nuke" stratagems, Detonate Concealed Explosives can be used multiple times a game, provided command points are available (which is the main issue for this stratagem unfortunately).

    Extra Explosives
    Cheap stratagem used before a GSC unit makes any shooting attacks. When used, up to 10 models from the selected unit may throw a grenade that turn, though only half of which may be Demolition Charges. While most obviously useful for Acolyte or Atalan Jackal units carrying multiple Demolition Charges, the extra shots offered by the humble Blasting Charge can be useful for chaff clearing if a squad is close enough to employ them. Pairs remarkably well with the Rusted Claw’s signature stratagem (detailed below).

    Return to Shadows
    Cheap stratagem used at the end of the movement phase that allows a Genestealer Cults infantry unit with the Cult Ambush ability to be removed from the table provided no enemies are within close range of them and they did not arrive from reserves that turn. The removed unit then returns to play next turn as if it had been set up underground. Return to shadows adds a great deal of tactical flexibility and board control options, allowing a stranded unit to redeploy at a moment's notice, a large unit to be reallocated as the needs of the battle dictate, or a wounded character to be whisked away to safety. The 2018 fall FAQ clarified that Return to Shadows is not affected by the Tactical Reserves rule so units leaving the table after turn 3 will still arrive safely.

    Chilling Efficiency (Hivecult)
    Moderate cost stratagem used in the shooting phase after a Hivecult unit damages an enemy model. Until the end of the phase, all other Hivecult units targeting that unit may add +1 to their hit rolls against that target. When combined with the spotting abilities of a Jackal Alphus (or two), the army can lay down a shockingly accurate barrage of firepower against a key target (such as a Knight).

    A Plan Generations in the Making (Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor)
    Requires at least one Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor model on the table to use. Expensive stratagem used after an opponent has spent points for a stratagem but before the stratagem goes into effect. On a 2+ that stratagem’s effects are ignored, and the command points are refunded. In addition, on a 6 the command points spent are not refunded. The ability to counteract critical stratagems is extremely useful in the current competitive environment, though it can only be used once-per-game (FAQ).

    Overthrow the Oppressors (Bladed Cog)
    Cheap stratagem used before a Bladed Cog unit (without the Genestealer keyword) is selected to fight. For that phase, the unit may make an additional attack for each natural hit-roll of 6 with the standard caveats about successive hits not generating further rolls. If attacking a unit with the Imperial keyword, the extra hits instead occur on a natural roll of 5 or 6, and against an Adeptus Mechanicus unit the extra hits instead occur on a natural roll of 4, 5, or 6. In either case, this is especially useful for mass attack squads and has excellent synergy with the Chosen One aura from the Abominant (each hit of 6 generates an extra hit and extra hit roll).

    Drive-By Demolitions (Rusted Claw)
    Cheap stratagem used before a Rusted Claw biker unit is selected to shoot. That unit may add +1 to hit and wound to any attacks made with a grenade weapon that turn, and then may immediately move after performing their attacks (though they cannot charge afterwards). Excellent for making the most of a lone Demolition Charge and potentially horrific when paired with the Extra Explosives stratagem. When not being used for an alpha strike, it also offers some utility in get a bit more movement out of a squad attempting to reach an objective deep in the opponent’s backfield or else to move out of line of sight and avoid retaliation.

    Vengeance for the Martyred (Pauper Princes)
    Cheap stratagem used when a Pauper Princes character is slain by an enemy model. For the rest of the game, all Pauper Princes Models may add +1 to their hit rolls when targeted the offending unit.
    A simple but effective deterrent for foes targeting Pauper Princes characters, one that bolsters both melee and shooting. The primary drawback is that most players will likely attempt to use cheap/expendable units to finish off characters where possible, so the odds of triggering it on something important is unlikely. This can be circumvented by intentionally sacrificing a cheap character such as a Biophagus or Locus, though depending on circumstances this may be difficult to set-up and is somewhat gimmicky.

    Monstrous Bio-Horrors (Twisted Helix)
    Expensive stratagem used after a Twisted Helix Aberrant unit has fought. That unit can then fight again and gains a -1 ld bubble until the end of the turn. Effectively a standard fight-again stratagem with an added leadership penalty. While the leadership debuff is unlikely to come into play (not much can survive two rounds with an Aberrant squad), the ability to fight again is very useful for finishing off large targets like knights.



    Psychic Awakening: The Greater Good
    Spoiler:


    Prepared Ambush
    Cheap stratagem used at the start of the shooting phase. One Neophyte unit that setup via Cult Ambush may treat their autoguns as Assault 2. The most noteworthy aspect of this stratagem is that the affected unit can deploy using either mode of Cult Ambush, so a unit advancing up the board from an ambush marker is just as valid a target as one arriving from deepstrike. This stratagem appears to have been designed to be paired with the Armor Piercing Ammunition trait for use against forward screens that might otherwise restrict deepstrike, but in most cases the command point costs make this hard to justify.

    Close-Range Shoot-Out
    Cheap stratagem used in the shooting phase. Allows Atlan Jackal units to reroll wound rolls made with Pistols, Grenade Launchers, and Shotguns when attacking enemies within 12''. Full rerolls to wound are relatively rare which gives this some added appeal, though the low strength of most of the eligible weapons hinders some of the effectiveness against heavier infantry.

    Violence Unleashed
    Cheap stratagem used in the fight phase. Adds +1 attack to a selected Metamorph unit. Simple effect that is remarkably potent given the sheer volume of attacks Metamorphs are already capable off without it. All configurations can make some use of this stratagem to more effectively hack through infantry, though talon-equipped Metamorphs can get especially silly (5-6 attacks per body, 6-7 from leader).

    Genetic Lineage
    Cheap stratagem used in the charge phase. Allows a selected Acolyte unit to charge despite advancing. This is effectively a stratagem version of the Psychic Stimulus power, and makes a fair back-up option in the event that said power fails. Allowing Acolyte squads to act like Purestrain Genesealers for a turn is a very strong ability, especially when paired with the tools found elsewhere to extend or reroll advance and charges.

    Heart of the Creed
    Cheap once-per-game stratagem used before the game begins. A selected Primus may choose an additional target for their Meticulous Uprising ability. This stratagem offers a useful effect but is somewhat hamstrung by its window of use making it a bit of a gamble as to whether one can effectively use both instances of Meticulous Uprising before the Primus is defeated. In general, this stratagem is easier to maximize the benefits of with a firebase that can leverage range to hit both targets over the course of the game or can hammer one target before the Primus redeploys to the front line to support assault squads against the other. Attempted to set up a multi-charge against two potential targets is an option, but one that is hard to do.

    The Cult's Psyche
    Cheap once-per-game stratagem used before the game begins. A selected Magus gains the ability to manifest an additional psychic power and may add one to their psychic tests for each other <cult> psyker within short range.

    The Gnarled Fist
    Cheap once-per-game stratagem used before the game begins. A selected Abominant gains a 3'' extension to their Chosen One ability.

    Commanding Amplification
    Cheap once-per-game stratagem used before the game begins. A selected Clamavus gains a 3'' extension to their Proclamator Hailer ability.

    Integrated Vox-Net
    Moderate stratagem used during the shooting phase. Replaces a Jackal Alphus' Priority Target Sighted ability with a variant with triple the radius of effect. While expensive, the range extension allows a single Alphus to cover many more units than they otherwise might. This is particularly useful for heavily mechanized Hivecult builds or Neophyte-heavy Bladed Cog builds where a large portion of the army is reliant upon the Alphus' target painting ability for accuracy. Note that Atlan Jackal packs do not get special benefit from this stratagem as it replaces the ability they reference.

    Slipping Through the Shadows
    Cheap stratagem used in the movement phase. Allows a Sanctus model to advance a full 6'' and still charge later in the charge phase. A significant boon for a melee-based Sanctus, as it allows for an impressive amount of mobility to get them to their target.

    Annihlating Advance
    Cheap stratagem used in the charge phase. Allows a Goliath Rockgrinder to inflict D3 mortal wounds to an infantry unit it charged on a 2+. Generally not worthwhile, as the damage is low and the Rockgrinder will rarely want to engage units with invulnerable saves that would warrant mortal wounds.

    Evasive Driving
    Cheap stratagem used in the opponent's shooting phase. A selected Goliath Rockgrinder or Goliath Truck gains the ability to treat Ap-1 or Ap-2 as Ap - until the end of the phase. Can be useful to make a particular Goliath (such as one carrying an important character or one being used to sling units with Reckless Maneuver) an unappealing target for a turn. Offers reasonable protection against mid-strength/mid-AP weapons such as Autocannons but has no effect against heavier anti-armor weapons (such as plasma or lascannons).

    Overcharged Weaponry
    Cheap stratagem used in the shooting phase. Adds +1 to wound rolls made by Clearance Incinerators, Heavy Seismic Cannons, or Heavy Mining Lasers carried by the selected unit. This is an especially effective stratagem for Ridgerunners that can maximize the amount of effected models via their squadron ability, but a Rockgrinder can also make use of it in a pinch.

    Raking Fire
    Cheap stratagem used in the shooting phase. A selected Achillies Ridgerunner unit gains +1 to hit and wound rolls with its Heavy Stubbers until the end of the phase. This stratagem is helpful for Ridgerunners acting as fire support batteries where their primary target is being painted by an Alphus but secondary infantry targets are also available.




    Allies:

    The Genestealer Cults are unusual amongst the Xenos armies in that they have access to two different allies. As part of the Tyranids faction, they can ally with Hive Fleet Tyranids naturally while their Brood Brothers rule grants access to the Astra Militarium (albeit with the restrictions mentioned at the beginning). Both allies can be taken in the same army if desired, though this will generally mean a significantly diminished GSC presence if looking to maximize the strengths of both allies.

    Tyranids

    At their core, the Hive Fleet Tyranids emphasize attrition in their battlefield tactics, thanks to a combination of (comparatively) low-cost bodies, easy access to accuracy penalties against shooting, and near-army wide moral immunity. The GSC will generally be looking to maximize the board control elements of the Tyranids and their own ability to put units in reserves, so the deep strike capable Tyranid units will generally be unappealing (with possible exception being made for the Mawloc due to its burrowing ability allowing it to start on the table). Tyranids tend to struggle with high toughness units while their hybrid cousins excel against such targets. As such, a typical ally detachment for Tyranids will involve a handful of armor-cracking assault squads or Rusted Claw Atlan Jackals with demolition charges. Tyranids also very much appreciate the overwatch mitigation offered by the GSC.

    Tyranid allies are fairly flexible in which creeds they can work well with, though by their nature will generally be serving as the "anvil" part of the army which makes "hammer" creeds especially appealing to maximize offensive potential. Post-Octarius, a small detachment of GSC forces has been a fairly common sight to screen for Hive Guard with ambush markers. In such configurations the Cult of the Four-armed Emperor is the most common creed due to their toolbox and the disposable nature of the detachment.

    User babelfish provided an excellent writeup looking at Tyranid allies which can be viewed here for a more in-depth analysis.



    Astra Militarum
    Astra Militarum allies brought through Brood Brothers offer additional gunline support (including better Russes and a plethora of other artillery) and cheap cannon fodder. In addition, most AM units share similar statlines to their Cult counterparts, providing greater threat saturation across the army as a whole. If running an army with mixed industrial and military units, it will usually be worthwhile to include a Brood Brothers detachment to unlock the force multiplies offered by the Astra Militarum equivalents. In general, Astra Militarum allies will be used for chaff removal, indirect fire support, and long ranged anti-tank while the GSC detachment provides melee bite and mobility. Both armies have struggled in 9th, but there have been a handful of lists using both together in tournaments.

    Specialist Detachments:
    Specialist detachments are a special sort of stratagem introduced in Vigilus Defiant that add a keyword to select models and unlocks one additional relic, warlord trait, and additional stratagems that can only be used on models that have gained the specialist detachment’s keyword. Note: The 9th edition Chapter Approved specifically forbids the use of specialist detachments in official tournament play for the 2020 cycle. It is likely that these will be phased out entirely as the edition continues, but will remain included in this writeup for the sake of thoroughness.

    Anointed Throng:
    Spoiler:
    Adds the Anointed Throng keyword to all Aberrant and Abominant units in the selected detachment. Unlocks the Devotion Till Death and For the Anointed One! stratagems, Insidious Mindwyrm Warlord trait, and Blessed Sledgehammer relic.

    An Aberrant themed specialist detachment which provides more reliable charges via its warlord trait and offers some damage enhancing stratagems and relic. Each of the “hammer” oriented creeds can imitate some facet of the detachment, so its main utility is either offering the missing toolsets (generally the +1 to charges offered by the warlord trait or ability to get a second swing) or as a means for the “anvil” centric creeds to bolster their Aberrants without having to mix creeds.

    Warlord Trait/Relic:
    - Insidious Mindwyrm: (Viligus Defiant)
    Anointed Throng Abominant only. Warlord allows nearby Anointed Throng models to add +1 to their charge distance. Very nice when paired with a Clamavus or the Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor creed for cumulative bonuses and can be used as a substitution for either effect if needed.

    Blessed Sledgehammer (Vigilus Defiant)
    Only available to an Anointed Throng Abominant. Upgrades the Abominant's sledgehammer to AP-4 and removes the to-hit penalty. The extra AP helps against 3+ save targets and the added accuracy improves the damage output considerably.

    Associated Stratagems:

    Field Commander
    Cheap stratagem that allows a non-unique character in a specialist detachment to gain that detachment's unique warlord trait ability. Can be used multiple times provided each is affecting a different specialist detachment (can't use on 2 of the same kind) and no more than 1 instance of a given trait is in play (can't have two Abominants with the Insidious Mindwyrm trait).

    Devotion Till Death:
    Medium cost stratagem used at the beginning of the fight phase. Allows slain Anointed Throng Aberrants from the selected unit to pile in and fight before being removed as casualties. Primarily useful against big game targets such as knights to maximize damage output, since the models get swing even if they have already gone.

    Fight for the Anointed One!:
    Cheap stratagem used at the beginning of the fight phase. One Anointed Throng Aberrant unit within range of an Anointed Throng Abominant gains the ability to reroll wound rolls of 1 until the end of the phase. Rerolls are always useful, though the effect is perhaps a bit redundant if a Primus is available to offer their own reroll bubble (albeit limited to a specific target).


    Deliverance Broodsurge:
    Spoiler:
    Adds the Deliverance Broodsurge keyword to all Acolyte Iconwards, Acolytes, Neophytes, and Goliath Trucks in the selected detachment. Unlocks the First to Draw Blood and Reckless Maneuver stratagems, Augur of the Insurgent Warlord trait, and Vile of the Grandsire's Blood relic.

    A troop themed specialist detachment that offers a diverse toolbox. Its warlord trait and one of its stratagems improve the reliability of threat delivery, while the other stratagem provides a noticeable damage enhancement. The relic is also worthy of mention, offering a once-per-game damage boon and a +1 leadership bubble.

    Being oriented around troops, the Deliverance Broodsurge is fairly universal in its application even for builds that do not incorporate Goliath vehicles. The primary benefit lies in its damage enhancement options, though the ability to disembark a unit after moving does have some potential applications in gimmicky early pressure lists using other movement tricks (flare launchers + jackals, Swarmlord) to put several threats in the enemy’s deployment zone on the first turn.

    Warlord Trait/Relic:

    - Augur Of The Insurgent: (Viligus Defiant)
    Deliverance Broodsurge Iconward only. Warlord allows nearby Deliverance Broodsurge models to reroll advance or charge rolls. Very similar to the Insidious Mindwyrm but affects a wider range of models. Again, useful out of ambush or when making a last-minute objective play.

    Vial of the Grandsire's Blood (Vigilus Defiant)
    Only available to a Deliverance Broodsurge Iconward. Bestows +1 Ld. to units within a short distance of the Iconward and grants a once per battle ability that increases a chosen model's Strength and Attacks characteristics by 2 for the duration of the Fight phase. The leadership boost has some interesting stacking potential with the Inspiring Leader warlord trait for Ld. 10 on almost any affected squad (scans Aberrants) though it comes at the cost of alternative traits. The once-per-game character buff is a bit trickier to use due to the required proximity, but in theory would be ideal for an Abominant or (ironically enough) a Patriarch going up against a key target that absolutely must die that turn.

    Associated Stratagems:

    Field Commander
    Cheap stratagem that allows a non-unique character in a specialist detachment to gain that detachment's unique warlord trait ability. Can be used multiple times provided each is affecting a different specialist detachment (can't use on 2 of the same kind) and no more than 1 instance of a given trait is in play (can't have two Abominants with the Insidious Mindwyrm trait).

    Reckless Maneuver:
    Cheap stratagem used at the end of the movement phase. Allows a Deliverance Broodsurge unit to disembark from a Deliverance Broodsurge Goliath that has moved this turn (provided said unit did not embark this turn). The unit must roll a die for each model and a single model is slain for each 1 rolled similar to an emergency disembark from a wrecked vehicle. The unit has to disembark in such a way as to be more than 9'' away from the enemy. The ability to sling a unit up the board very quickly for a first turn charge has some potentially interesting applications though being a single 10-strong unit of Acolytes or Neophytes limits the damage potential somewhat. Best used in conjunction with Atalan Jackals that can provide extra threat saturation.

    First to Draw Blood:
    Cheap stratagem used at the beginning of the fight phase. Adds +1 to wound rolls made by the selected Deliverance Broodsurge unit. Devastating when paired with Acolytes, who love the boost to their heavy rock weapons and having the AP-4 ability of their rending claws trigger a 5+ while under the effect. Also allows Neophytes to be fairly threatening in melee when paired with other in-faction strength boosts.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/07 21:30:06


    Post by: Khorzain


    Now that's a proper primer, great writeup, you've served the Four-Armed Emperor well.




    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/08 23:01:48


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Great work and I love your style of addressing these units. You've clearly articulated the strengths and weaknesses of units, but without making a statement on whether or not that unit is top tier or not - which is ideal as it's far too susceptible to meta, playstyle and list, as well as subjectivity. Don't fall into that trap. Great stuff.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/10 12:45:17


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Thank you both for your kind words. I’ll try to get the to-do list hammered out over the next few days (also spotted a few things I need to fix).

    Anything else I should add? As said, the goal is to be as comprehensive as possible.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/10 17:28:46


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    Thank you both for your kind words. I’ll try to get the to-do list hammered out over the next few days (also spotted a few things I need to fix).

    Anything else I should add? As said, the goal is to be as comprehensive as possible.


    Btw Acolyte Iconward provides FNP 6+ to ALL MODELS OF A UNIT within 6", effectively granting UNITS within 6" FNP, not models.



    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    Great work and I love your style of addressing these units. You've clearly articulated the strengths and weaknesses of units, but without making a statement on whether or not that unit is top tier or not - which is ideal as it's far too susceptible to meta, playstyle and list, as well as subjectivity. Don't fall into that trap. Great stuff.



    GSC vehicles and Genestealers being hot garbage is not a "meta-dependant" statement, but the simple truth as long as GW doesn't both reduce the points and apply chapter tactics to vehicles


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/16 20:22:10


    Post by: Strat_N8


    KurtAngle2 wrote:

    Btw Acolyte Iconward provides FNP 6+ to ALL MODELS OF A UNIT within 6", effectively granting UNITS within 6" FNP, not models.


    Fixed. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm ashamed to admit I missed that change.

    KurtAngle2 wrote:

    GSC vehicles and Genestealers being hot garbage is not a "meta-dependant" statement


    I'm not sure on purestrain genestealers, but vehicles being meta dependent is a fair statement. Most tournaments currently are skewing towards heavy armor and counters for heavy armor which makes it a rather hostile environment for more mechanized builds (Tyranids have the same issue currently). If in comparison your local meta is skewed more towards anti-infantry or lots of light to medium mech the vehicles will perform better since they skew against the former and have tools to deal with the latter.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 18:25:14


    Post by: landersloot


    I just bought 2 tempestus scion command squads w/ 4 plasmas in each for fun. Has anyone run Militarum Tempestus with GSC? Was thinking about running a vanguard of 2x Tempestor Primes with the 2 scion command squads and a commissar to fill out the detachment.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 18:50:45


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    landersloot wrote:
    I just bought 2 tempestus scion command squads w/ 4 plasmas in each for fun. Has anyone run Militarum Tempestus with GSC? Was thinking about running a vanguard of 2x Tempestor Primes with the 2 scion command squads and a commissar to fill out the detachment.


    Outclassed by every GSC antivehicle choice (Aberrants, Rock Saws). Why would you do that? It's not even that fun


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 18:56:39


    Post by: landersloot


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    landersloot wrote:
    I just bought 2 tempestus scion command squads w/ 4 plasmas in each for fun. Has anyone run Militarum Tempestus with GSC? Was thinking about running a vanguard of 2x Tempestor Primes with the 2 scion command squads and a commissar to fill out the detachment.


    Outclassed by every GSC antivehicle choice (Aberrants, Rock Saws). Why would you do that? It's not even that fun


    I bought them because:

    A) They're cool models
    B) I suffer from the incessant need to spend my money on plastic miniatures
    3) GSC don't really have access to plasma or things that can fire them with BS better than 4. and i like plasma

    If i include them in my list i would still have rock saws


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 19:00:41


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    Do i understand this primer correctly:

    If i wanted to run a Gunfocused list, i would run either Rusted Claws for durability or Bladed Cog if i wanted to go heavy with Neophytes and Broodbrothers?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 20:53:18


    Post by: Strat_N8


    landersloot wrote:I just bought 2 tempestus scion command squads w/ 4 plasmas in each for fun. Has anyone run Militarum Tempestus with GSC? Was thinking about running a vanguard of 2x Tempestor Primes with the 2 scion command squads and a commissar to fill out the detachment.


    I used them for a bit in the index but I have not had a chance to run them with the codex.

    As far as tactical usage they should serve well as another general purpose deepstrike threat with the benefit of being able to shoot over screens, though I'd probably have them focus primarily on removing key heavy infantry (Havocs, Aggressors, Devastators, Wraithguard) before vehicles. The only concern I have with your detachment plans is that it feels a bit character heavy for two fire support squads (I know the Tempestors can't be helped). Are there any other units you might want to pull from the AM that could give you more mileage out of the detachment?


    Not Online!!! wrote:Do i understand this primer correctly:

    If i wanted to run a Gunfocused list, i would run either Rusted Claws for durability or Bladed Cog if i wanted to go heavy with Neophytes and Broodbrothers?


    I'd put the Bladed Cog as more a combined arms creed despite the second part of its ability, as it has tools for both melee and ranged and really wants a bit of both to take full advantage of its toolbox. For a list or detachment focusing predominately on the ranged side of the army I'd look at Hivecult or Rusted Claw. Hivecult gives you several tools to improve the accuracy of the ranged aspects of the army and the ability to screen big guns more effectively (bit like early 8th Valhallans) while the Rusted Claw is more geared for mid-field shooting thanks to their interaction with cover and general synergy with bikes (which can also take over some of the ambushing "hammer" role with demo charges).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 21:15:39


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    I'd put the Bladed Cog as more a combined arms creed despite the second part of its ability, as it has tools for both melee and ranged and really wants a bit of both to take full advantage of its toolbox. For a list or detachment focusing predominately on the ranged side of the army I'd look at Hivecult or Rusted Claw. Hivecult gives you several tools to improve the accuracy of the ranged aspects of the army and the ability to screen big guns more effectively (bit like early 8th Valhallans) while the Rusted Claw is more geared for mid-field shooting thanks to their interaction with cover and general synergy with bikes (which can also take over some of the ambushing "hammer" role with demo charges).



    I mostly ask due to beeing finally fed up with the rules R&H got and am therefore sitting on a massive ammount of infantry. And whilest i could go with Am it would bore me to no end and wysiwg would not be upheld due to stubbers and an abundance of sniperrifles.

    So i was looking around for an army to atleast somewhat fit the bill for a desperate professional now imrpovising force.







    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 21:44:01


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Not Online!!! wrote:

    I mostly ask due to beeing finally fed up with the rules R&H got and am therefore sitting on a massive ammount of infantry. And whilest i could go with Am it would bore me to no end and wysiwg would not be upheld due to stubbers and an abundance of sniperrifles.

    So i was looking around for an army to atleast somewhat fit the bill for a desperate professional now imrpovising force.


    Yeah it is sad what has happened to that army. One of our locals has it and it used to be his favorite and it was a joy to play against pre-8th. Now he mostly plays a mix of CSM and Daemons (albeit still Khorne and Nurgle, as per Siege of Vraks).

    For your purposes Hivecult with Brood Brother allies will probably be your best fit, as Rusted Claw is more focused on the bikers than on-foot infantry. Stubbers can go with Neophyte squads perfectly fine, though I'm not sure what to do with lots of Snipers (could use some to make Sanctus and Alphus characters I suppose).

    Hope that helps.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/21 21:50:28


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    Not Online!!! wrote:

    I mostly ask due to beeing finally fed up with the rules R&H got and am therefore sitting on a massive ammount of infantry. And whilest i could go with Am it would bore me to no end and wysiwg would not be upheld due to stubbers and an abundance of sniperrifles.

    So i was looking around for an army to atleast somewhat fit the bill for a desperate professional now imrpovising force.


    Yeah it is sad what has happened to that army. One of our locals has it and it used to be his favorite and it was a joy to play against pre-8th. Now he mostly plays a mix of CSM and Daemons (albeit still Khorne and Nurgle, as per Siege of Vraks).

    For your purposes Hivecult with Brood Brother allies will probably be your best fit, as Rusted Claw is more focused on the bikers than on-foot infantry. Stubbers can go with Neophyte squads and Snipers can go in Veteran or Command Squads taken from the AM codex (could also use some to convert an Alphus and/or Sanctus).


    Tbf 7th had a lot of gak in it.
    Like formations and massive balance issues.

    IA13 and the renegade army within wasn't part of that.
    A refreshingly balanced and fun and especially customizable list.

    I converted my army out of gsc, IG, 3rd party bits and fw. But after 74 matches of bollocks in 8th at varying sizes it was mostly sitting in a vitrin, until i studied it a bit and saw one of my older gsc conversions.


    Thanks for the hivecult tip though, seems like a decent choice but i guess traits and paint style would probably anyways not bother me
    Do you rekon the tactician to be worth it?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/23 14:59:43


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I have somewhat mixed feelings on the Nexos. Command point regeneration is a very nice thing to have, but he is really expensive for a non-combat character and the restrictions on CP regeneration in matched play limits how much he can give back. I think the most compelling place for him lies in ambush-centric lists where much of the nastier tricks are driven by stratagem use, giving him more opportunities to refund and giving each CP recovered more a bit more value. Mass ambush lists also generally will have a Primus and Clamavus included for their support abilities, which in turn also improves the reliability of the Nexos' regeneration ability. The Nexos can also serve as a "safe" warlord (provided no Patriarch is present) content to lurk in the backfield while the other characters throw themselves in harms way.

    I suppose a simpler way to frame it would be he has his uses but isn't something I would consider an "auto include" choice (at least in matched play).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/23 15:34:00


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    I have somewhat mixed feelings on the Nexos. Command point regeneration is a very nice thing to have, but he is really expensive for a non-combat character and the restrictions on CP regeneration in matched play limits how much he can give back. I think the most compelling place for him lies in ambush-centric lists where much of the nastier tricks are driven by stratagem use, giving him more opportunities to refund and giving each CP recovered more a bit more value. Mass ambush lists also generally will have a Primus and Clamavus included for their support abilities, which in turn also improves the reliability of the Nexos' regeneration ability. The Nexos can also serve as a "safe" warlord (provided no Patriarch is present) content to lurk in the backfield while the other characters throw themselves in harms way.

    I suppose a simpler way to frame it would be he has his uses but isn't something I would consider an "auto include" choice (at least in matched play).


    Shame, really liked the model.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/23 16:01:23


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    I have somewhat mixed feelings on the Nexos. Command point regeneration is a very nice thing to have, but he is really expensive for a non-combat character and the restrictions on CP regeneration in matched play limits how much he can give back. I think the most compelling place for him lies in ambush-centric lists where much of the nastier tricks are driven by stratagem use, giving him more opportunities to refund and giving each CP recovered more a bit more value. Mass ambush lists also generally will have a Primus and Clamavus included for their support abilities, which in turn also improves the reliability of the Nexos' regeneration ability. The Nexos can also serve as a "safe" warlord (provided no Patriarch is present) content to lurk in the backfield while the other characters throw themselves in harms way.

    I suppose a simpler way to frame it would be he has his uses but isn't something I would consider an "auto include" choice (at least in matched play).


    Hey Strat N8 - I think the Nexos is really good. I run neither Clamavus nor Primus, I still spend 50 on a Nexos. Cheapest battalion we can get is like close to 250 pts (for 5 CP), for a fraction of that the Nexos brings like at least 2 CP your way even on 6's, sometimes more, and that's around half a battalion worth of CP for 50 pts. I include him for that alone, then he has the blip ability as a bonus. If you are running Primus or Clamavus he's literally double as good. I think the Nexos is a good unit!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/23 16:05:39


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
     Strat_N8 wrote:
    I have somewhat mixed feelings on the Nexos. Command point regeneration is a very nice thing to have, but he is really expensive for a non-combat character and the restrictions on CP regeneration in matched play limits how much he can give back. I think the most compelling place for him lies in ambush-centric lists where much of the nastier tricks are driven by stratagem use, giving him more opportunities to refund and giving each CP recovered more a bit more value. Mass ambush lists also generally will have a Primus and Clamavus included for their support abilities, which in turn also improves the reliability of the Nexos' regeneration ability. The Nexos can also serve as a "safe" warlord (provided no Patriarch is present) content to lurk in the backfield while the other characters throw themselves in harms way.

    I suppose a simpler way to frame it would be he has his uses but isn't something I would consider an "auto include" choice (at least in matched play).


    Hey Strat N8 - I think the Nexos is really good. I run neither Clamavus nor Primus, I still spend 50 on a Nexos. Cheapest battalion we can get is like close to 250 pts (for 5 CP), for a fraction of that the Nexos brings like at least 2 CP your way even on 6's, sometimes more, and that's around half a battalion worth of CP for 50 pts. I include him for that alone, then he has the blip ability as a bonus. If you are running Primus or Clamavus he's literally double as good. I think the Nexos is a good unit!


    If my understanding of the army is correct, then you require CP on demand. meaning you can't really skip the battalion tax with 1-2 of Nexoses.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/23 17:17:34


    Post by: Badablack


    Something people forget about with the Nexos is the free ambush marker movement. Against turn 1 charge armies like Harlequins or Kraken genestealers who want to get up in your grill, being able to keep them 9” away from your frontlines and then move your frontlines out of charge range is pretty useful.

    Other than that though my Nexos sits with the mortar teams and babysits objectives.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/23 21:07:34


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I guess I might have come across more of a downer than I intended. I do think the Nexos is useful (as mentioned, ambush lists love extra command points and he makes a good warlord), most of my misgivings stem from whether a list can leverage his ability sufficiently to compensate for the points spent on a non-combat model. Just need to balance how much is invested in support pieces vs actual combat units.

    Not Online!!! wrote:
    If my understanding of the army is correct, then you require CP on demand. meaning you can't really skip the battalion tax with 1-2 of Nexoses.


    Unfortunately no, due to the Strategic Restraint matched play rule that was finalized in the last big FAQ. You can only recover 1 command point per game turn regardless of however many sources you have that can do so. In matched play the Nexos is mainly going to be sustaining the use of key stratagems rather than completely fueling them.

    Anyway, I'm hoping to spend some time on the weekend working on the allies section and beginning work on a list archetypes analysis section.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/08/25 19:17:29


    Post by: Iur_tae_mont


    I feel the nexos is worth it.

    The building blocks of all of my lists is usually a broodcoven with a clamavus so the nexos to me seems like an auto take. Worse case, I shuffle a blip around, which is good because I abuse blip manipulation as much as possible.

    On vehicles, I agree that in a GSC list, taking the GSC vehicles isn’t the best option. Arguments can be made for Tank Commanders and Vulture allies, but the vehicles don’t play into our strengths.

    My main list uses just 200 bodies, no tanks, but I’ve been known to bring in tanks or even the Fragdrill just for fun.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/04 16:52:07


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Updated the main post with the beginnings of allies analysis. I need to get more table time with both to provide more definitive analysis, but if anyone has anything they would like to add I'd be happy to take thoughts under advisement.

     Iur_tae_mont wrote:

    On vehicles, I agree that in a GSC list, taking the GSC vehicles isn’t the best option. Arguments can be made for Tank Commanders and Vulture allies, but the vehicles don’t play into our strengths.


    Most of my experiences with vehicles has been positive, but I'm generally using them to rush the midfield and put several threats on the opponent's doorstep on the first couple turns and then offer fire support afterwards. Doing so works well against most of the tricks used to deny deepstrike landing zones in the early game and the cargo within will generally be close enough to start causing trouble on the second turn alongside ambushers.

    I am curious to see if the competitive meta will see a shift with the new Marine book and soon-to-be-out Sisters of Battle book. Both have a lot more anti-horde firepower than is typical currently and being more infantry-centric themselves might see armor as a reasonable skew option to combat them and counters for them.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/12 09:11:59


    Post by: Mellon


    A Plan Generations In The Making. What stratagems is it worth looking out for and using it on? I would really appreciate your suggestions and favourites on key stratagems that tend to break up your opponents plans when denied.

    For example:
    Imperial Knights - House Taranys: Our Darkest Hour. Revives a slain Knight at the end of the phase.

    Drukari - Kabal of the Black Heart: Agents of Vect. Deny one stratagem.

    Genestealer Cult - They Came from Below on powerful melee units. A Perfect Ambush on flamer acolytes.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/12 18:00:33


    Post by: Badablack


    As far as knight lists I prefer using it on whatever it is that lets other knights nearby overwatch and pile in on units I’m charging. That one wrecks me more than anything else.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/12 19:44:50


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Mellon wrote:
    A Plan Generations In The Making. What stratagems is it worth looking out for and using it on? I would really appreciate your suggestions and favourites on key stratagems that tend to break up your opponents plans when denied.


    If the army you are facing doesn't have any huge impact stratagems like those you highlighted (probably add Grot Shields if you have a good shooting component), I would keep an eye out for any stratagems that give extra actions or out of sequence actions.

    Examples:
    - Shoot again stratagems (there are a lot of these in a lot of armies)
    - Shoot at units arriving from reinforcements stratagems (also a lot of these)
    - Stratagems that grant extra movement. (Metabolic Overdrive, Opportunistic Advance, Hit and Fade, Drive-by Demolitions, etc..)
    - Fight again stratagems (more to stop people from piling in after slaughtering a screen)
    - Stratagems that mess up your ability to charge (Custodes have one, don't remember if anyone else did)
    - Stratagems that shut down psychic powers if you really need a given power to go off.

    A lot of these also have the benefit of being high cost stratagems themselves, so if you get lucky enough to not refund the CP spent it is doubly worthwhile.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/13 13:57:10


    Post by: Mellon


    That seems like sound advice. Thank you!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/13 14:51:42


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    Mellon wrote:
    That seems like sound advice. Thank you!


    i'd add VotWl on condition that it serves as a safety use for Obliterators. (if they are not slaanesh)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/13 18:40:29


    Post by: necron99


    After NOVA I promised myself I'd shelf my guard and start a new army. Almost no one in my flgs runs gsc so I figured I'd pick it up. Already bought a ton of models and the 'dex and have been watching youtube battle reports. Most of them though are just that, battle reports. Most of my games are won/lost based on deployment and this army looks like it's the king of deployment shenanigans... unfortunately I don't think I've seen any youtube videos specifically about that. Unless there's nothing there but it sure seems like there is. I'd love to hear any war stories or deployment tricks any of you have tried...even ones that went horribly wrong


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/13 20:00:51


    Post by: laperamargarita


    Hello,

    As a new genestealer cult general i really love this topic.

    I´m still raising the army, but the few games that i played with them i really ejoyed them a lot.

    As @necron99 says i think its almost everything in the deployment, not in ours but in our rival deployment. We play the first and second turn with just half of the army, appearing as we desire. So it´s a big advantage because we can take advantage of his mistakes and correct ours. But if he doesn´t make any mistake we won´t have a great counterattack and we wil be charging what our rival wants

    Anyway, ive only played a few games with genestealer cult. I love the way the genestealer cult play. I´m still not so clever about the way of playing but i love the optionsthat they have. Do you want an anti-infantry army? Acolytes with hand flamer and aberrants will do the job. Antitank? Call the atalan jackals with demolition charges and aberrants.Call the aberrants for almost everything Do you want heavy support?Lemmans and mortars batteries. And you have cheap troops for controlling the table!!!!. So, what else do you want?

    For now, the two battles that i suffer most were against death watch:I did perfect ambush with genestealers against a unit with 3 heavy flamers.....they use the stratagem of shooting when i appear The rest is history , i was unable to finish that unit and some flying vehicle destroyed the few genestealers who still where alive. And the second against CK with two shields of plaguebearers. I were unable to reach the CK, and when i finally reached it, my genestealers were no rival and were easily defeated.

    Now i want to finish the core units of the second bataillon, get some acolytes with hand flamer and have fun.I want the nexos and clamavus too. You get out of CPs really fast, so 50 points in a 1500 or higher army i belive they it´s worth it.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/13 20:09:27


    Post by: Mellon


     necron99 wrote:
    After NOVA I promised myself I'd shelf my guard and start a new army. Almost no one in my flgs runs gsc so I figured I'd pick it up. Already bought a ton of models and the 'dex and have been watching youtube battle reports. Most of them though are just that, battle reports. Most of my games are won/lost based on deployment and this army looks like it's the king of deployment shenanigans... unfortunately I don't think I've seen any youtube videos specifically about that. Unless there's nothing there but it sure seems like there is. I'd love to hear any war stories or deployment tricks any of you have tried...even ones that went horribly wrong


    GSC can do a sort of "null deployment".If you place plenty of blips out of line of sight and a few at the front, then use the stratagem They came from below to remove the blips at the front. This can deny a static shooty opponent any useful targets for turn one and possibly two. Combine, if neccessary, with Lurk in the Shadows on a key unit to make them untargetable. (pro tip: aberrants are great for this)

    As for personal stories: I made a bait by pushing my warlord patriarch and a bunch of brood brothers into a ruin front and center in the table. My opponent took the bait and pushed his shooty vehicles forward to get a chance at taking out my warlord. Thanks to amulet of the void wyrm my patriarch survived, and next turn his vehicles was in good position for a aberrant Perfect ambush and jackal bikers Lying in wait.

    lastly: D6 evolution has made a clever video about deployment shenanigans. Some of these are appliable for GSC, some of them are useable against us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B-0WnggIto


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/13 20:38:49


    Post by: necron99


    ah yeah I've been following the D6 Evolution channel...I'll definitely watch that one. I played against Nick Nannavati's gsc at NOVA and got absolutely destroyed. He did the hide the aberrants behind the wall - you can't shoot at them strat which was annoying as I had a dark talon that was going to put a dent in them. Other than that he didn't really play any serious deployment games on me - probably didn't have to

    I like that putting blips up front and hide some in los blocking ruins...I'll have to take a closer look at that.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/14 13:02:24


    Post by: necron99


    So what does everyone think of the Goliath vehicles? The list I'm building has no vehicles and all of the gsc players I know don't use them but I see them a lot in youtube battle reports...I do like the look of the model though


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/15 05:01:12


    Post by: UMGuy


    They're a fluffy choice. I think a lot of gsc's strength is in running large numbers of bodies, not vehicles. You end up overwhelming your opponent with large targets


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/15 13:25:19


    Post by: Iur_tae_mont


    They look cool and is a good change of pace than just placing 150+ models on the board every game.

    But our vehicles are the weaker choices in the codex. They don’t mesh with anything we currently have.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/16 08:06:54


    Post by: addnid


    Hi everyone, I was wondering how many extra shots the kelemorph can get when it shoots ? 1 per pistol or one per shot ? 3 or 6 ? May be a french codex translation thing...
    Thanks !!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/16 09:54:55


    Post by: dan2026


    addnid wrote:
    Hi everyone, I was wondering how many extra shots the kelemorph can get when it shoots ? 1 per pistol or one per shot ? 3 or 6 ? May be a french codex translation thing...
    Thanks !!


    He can get 6 bonus shots. So 12 shots total.
    Speaking of the Kelermorph, it's really annoying that the model hasn't been released on it's own yet.
    I really want one but all the ones on eBay are super price gouged. :(


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/16 12:19:13


    Post by: necron99


     dan2026 wrote:
    addnid wrote:
    Hi everyone, I was wondering how many extra shots the kelemorph can get when it shoots ? 1 per pistol or one per shot ? 3 or 6 ? May be a french codex translation thing...
    Thanks !!


    He can get 6 bonus shots. So 12 shots total.
    Speaking of the Kelermorph, it's really annoying that the model hasn't been released on it's own yet.
    I really want one but all the ones on eBay are super price gouged. :(


    I actually bought two off of ebay. I know they aren't in their own blister pack but they do end up being sold separately if you look around for them. I picked mine up for $30 each which is about on par with the other single minis I bought for my gsc army


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/16 14:04:03


    Post by: Odrankt


     dan2026 wrote:
    addnid wrote:
    Hi everyone, I was wondering how many extra shots the kelemorph can get when it shoots ? 1 per pistol or one per shot ? 3 or 6 ? May be a french codex translation thing...
    Thanks !!


    He can get 6 bonus shots. So 12 shots total.
    Speaking of the Kelermorph, it's really annoying that the model hasn't been released on it's own yet.
    I really want one but all the ones on eBay are super price gouged. :(


    Isnt the Kelermorph worded that it get 3 extra hits and not 6? Since you can't split fire the Pistols 2 shots meaning they would only generate 1 extra hit per pistol?

    E.g. I shoot a Kelermorph at a GeQ and both shoots hit. Because I successfully hit with the pistol weapon I then get to do 1 extra hit. Not 1 extra hit for each shoot.

    In This case you say 2 pistols shots would generate 2 extra hits but because it says Pistol weapon and not shots it's only 1 extra hit generated. Anyone able to prove me wrong? I would love more hits if possible but the way it's worded you only get 3 extra hits and not 6.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/16 21:14:28


    Post by: addnid


    Thanks for your answers. I also asked the tyranid hive,we will see what else pops up


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/17 04:50:18


    Post by: Mellon


     dan2026 wrote:

    Speaking of the Kelermorph, it's really annoying that the model hasn't been released on it's own yet.
    I really want one but all the ones on eBay are super price gouged. :(


    It's quite easy to build one yourself. I used Escher bits, just added three arms with pistols and a neophyte head with scarf over the face. Then I greenstuffed a cloak as bonus.

    I've also seen several good conversions using the plastic commissar that everyone seems to have lying around.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Odrankt wrote:
     dan2026 wrote:
    addnid wrote:
    Hi everyone, I was wondering how many extra shots the kelemorph can get when it shoots ? 1 per pistol or one per shot ? 3 or 6 ? May be a french codex translation thing...
    Thanks !!


    He can get 6 bonus shots. So 12 shots total.
    Speaking of the Kelermorph, it's really annoying that the model hasn't been released on it's own yet.
    I really want one but all the ones on eBay are super price gouged. :(


    Isnt the Kelermorph worded that it get 3 extra hits and not 6? Since you can't split fire the Pistols 2 shots meaning they would only generate 1 extra hit per pistol?

    E.g. I shoot a Kelermorph at a GeQ and both shoots hit. Because I successfully hit with the pistol weapon I then get to do 1 extra hit. Not 1 extra hit for each shoot.

    In This case you say 2 pistols shots would generate 2 extra hits but because it says Pistol weapon and not shots it's only 1 extra hit generated. Anyone able to prove me wrong? I would love more hits if possible but the way it's worded you only get 3 extra hits and not 6.


    You can resolve attacks one at a time, then it becomes clearer. See the 40k rulebook page 181 where it is explained in detail how to resolve shooting. The Gunslinger rule says "In addition, each time this model hits an enemy with a pistol weapon, it can immediately make one additional hit roll against the target using the same weapon." So make the first hit roll. If it is a hit, you immediately make one additional hit roll.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/18 23:27:34


    Post by: Khorzain


    So how do you guys plan on dealing with Space Marine armies that have Infiltrator units blocking our deep-strike shenanigans?

    I've heard suggestions for using Hive Guard or Kraken-Genestealers to deal with them turn 1 — but I'd like to keep my list pure-GSC — and unfortunately our options seem to be very limited...


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/19 00:33:11


    Post by: Badablack


    You can summon a unit turn 1 with our stratagem using a Magus, which can let you drop a Kelermorph in range of any infiltrators. He can wipe out a squad pretty easily with help from mortars and maybe a bike squad moving up.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/19 01:22:35


    Post by: Khorzain


     Badablack wrote:
    You can summon a unit turn 1 with our stratagem using a Magus, which can let you drop a Kelermorph in range of any infiltrators. He can wipe out a squad pretty easily with help from mortars and maybe a bike squad moving up.


    -edit Okay rules question, when deep striking, do we place the unit 9 inches away, or is it 10 inches? So in the case of omni-scramblers, would we place the kelermorph 12" away (in range of his pistols), or would it be 13" (out of range)?



    If it's 13", then unfortunately the Space Marines FAQ made it so the Infiltrator's Omni-scramblers overrides any stratagems or abilities that allow you to place a unit within 12" — so we'd still have to place him outside that 12" bubble, which is out of his pistol range — and we can't move him afterwards either since it's during the psychic phase.

    So the best we could do is deep-strike 13" away, and then use the "Perfect Ambush" strategem to move the kelermorph in range of his 12" autostubs.



    Q: If a unit has a rule that says enemy units cannot set up within a certain distance of it (e.g. Omni-scramblers), but an enemy unit has a rule that says it can set up within a certain distance (e.g. Vexilla Teleport Homer and Lying in Wait), which takes precedence?
    A: The rule that says you cannot be set up within a certain distance (in the example instance, Omni-scramblers) always takes precedence.


    If we can place him 12" away then suddenly I'm feeling much better about this whole thing, and a little silly for not knowing this


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/19 03:04:01


    Post by: Badablack


    Forgot about the scramblers, that drastically reduces any decent units to summon and help deal with the infiltrators. Bladed Cog Neophytes with Webbers and Mining Lasers popped in 12” away can do some damage, otherwise you’d only really effective stuff is bikes and fast melee units.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/19 05:16:28


    Post by: Mellon


     Khorzain wrote:
    So how do you guys plan on dealing with Space Marine armies that have Infiltrator units blocking our deep-strike shenanigans?

    I've heard suggestions for using Hive Guard or Kraken-Genestealers to deal with them turn 1 — but I'd like to keep my list pure-GSC — and unfortunately our options seem to be very limited...


    If they are deployed midfield we can probably charge them. For example: A melee unit, revealed from the nearest blip (outside of 12" of course). Perfect Ambush for 1d6", move 6" advance 1d6". Cast Psychic stimulus. Charge 2d6". That is an average of 20". It costs 3CP, but is in a turn when noone else needs Perfect Ambush. And it requires a WC6 psychic power to succeed (with crouchling and a CP reroll it is fairly certain)

    This makes me curious over if GSC genestealers would be useable... 15 genestealers cost twice of what a unit of infiltrators cost. They have an average threat radius of 18,5" or 22" with Perfect Ambush.
    60 attacks = 40 hits = 6,7 rending wounds and 13,3 non-rending wounds = 6,7 rending wounds and 6,7 non-rending through armour = 13 wounds. Enough to wipe out 5 infiltrators, even if a couple of genestealers die to overwatch. That should work. Of course Kraken Genestealers are better and cheaper, but this is a tool from our codex. And if you do a soft charge with wrap and kill the unit in the marine fight phase you might even get more mileage out of the genestealer unit in the next turn.

    Unfortunately the Omni-scramblers forces us to deploy more than 12" away. So to shoot them with a summoned Kelermorph requires a move with Perfect Ambush.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/22 00:55:49


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Mellon wrote:
     Khorzain wrote:
    So how do you guys plan on dealing with Space Marine armies that have Infiltrator units blocking our deep-strike shenanigans?

    I've heard suggestions for using Hive Guard or Kraken-Genestealers to deal with them turn 1 — but I'd like to keep my list pure-GSC — and unfortunately our options seem to be very limited...


    If they are deployed midfield we can probably charge them. For example: A melee unit, revealed from the nearest blip (outside of 12" of course). Perfect Ambush for 1d6", move 6" advance 1d6". Cast Psychic stimulus. Charge 2d6". That is an average of 20". It costs 3CP, but is in a turn when noone else needs Perfect Ambush. And it requires a WC6 psychic power to succeed (with crouchling and a CP reroll it is fairly certain)

    This makes me curious over if GSC genestealers would be useable... 15 genestealers cost twice of what a unit of infiltrators cost. They have an average threat radius of 18,5" or 22" with Perfect Ambush.
    60 attacks = 40 hits = 6,7 rending wounds and 13,3 non-rending wounds = 6,7 rending wounds and 6,7 non-rending through armour = 13 wounds. Enough to wipe out 5 infiltrators, even if a couple of genestealers die to overwatch. That should work. Of course Kraken Genestealers are better and cheaper, but this is a tool from our codex. And if you do a soft charge with wrap and kill the unit in the marine fight phase you might even get more mileage out of the genestealer unit in the next turn.

    Unfortunately the Omni-scramblers forces us to deploy more than 12" away. So to shoot them with a summoned Kelermorph requires a move with Perfect Ambush.

    Just pointing out you can’t advance off Perfect Ambush


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/22 15:12:50


    Post by: Mellon


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    Mellon wrote:
     Khorzain wrote:
    So how do you guys plan on dealing with Space Marine armies that have Infiltrator units blocking our deep-strike shenanigans?

    I've heard suggestions for using Hive Guard or Kraken-Genestealers to deal with them turn 1 — but I'd like to keep my list pure-GSC — and unfortunately our options seem to be very limited...


    If they are deployed midfield we can probably charge them. For example: A melee unit, revealed from the nearest blip (outside of 12" of course). Perfect Ambush for 1d6", move 6" advance 1d6". Cast Psychic stimulus. Charge 2d6". That is an average of 20". It costs 3CP, but is in a turn when noone else needs Perfect Ambush. And it requires a WC6 psychic power to succeed (with crouchling and a CP reroll it is fairly certain)

    This makes me curious over if GSC genestealers would be useable... 15 genestealers cost twice of what a unit of infiltrators cost. They have an average threat radius of 18,5" or 22" with Perfect Ambush.
    60 attacks = 40 hits = 6,7 rending wounds and 13,3 non-rending wounds = 6,7 rending wounds and 6,7 non-rending through armour = 13 wounds. Enough to wipe out 5 infiltrators, even if a couple of genestealers die to overwatch. That should work. Of course Kraken Genestealers are better and cheaper, but this is a tool from our codex. And if you do a soft charge with wrap and kill the unit in the marine fight phase you might even get more mileage out of the genestealer unit in the next turn.

    Unfortunately the Omni-scramblers forces us to deploy more than 12" away. So to shoot them with a summoned Kelermorph requires a move with Perfect Ambush.

    Just pointing out you can’t advance off Perfect Ambush


    How do you figure that? I've checked the strat and the FAQ, and it really seems like it should work. (Given that Perfect Ambush is used from blip deployment of course)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/22 15:21:38


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Oh off the blip my bad I thought you meant deepstrike I should have read properly


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Great tactic there btw! Though Acolytes would still be better than Purestrains imo because as you said, psychic stimulus and also they benefit from Creeds, C4E gives them an extra 2” for example and if you can probably get Broodsurge charge rerolls and Clamavus inch without too much drama, should only have to string 2 or 3 Acolytes behind to reach their bubbles


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Though I guess Purestrains move 2” faster so no real difference in speed at least lol. (Which still puts Acolytes ahead imo)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/22 15:35:02


    Post by: Mellon


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    Oh off the blip my bad I thought you meant deepstrike I should have read properly


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Great tactic there btw! Though Acolytes would still be better than Purestrains imo because as you said, psychic stimulus and also they benefit from Creeds, C4E gives them an extra 2” for example and if you can probably get Broodsurge charge rerolls and Clamavus inch without too much drama, should only have to string 2 or 3 Acolytes behind to reach their bubbles


    Oooh, yeah. Nice additions. With that they might be able to gain first turn charges on some deployment maps. I'll have to try this.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/24 02:57:05


    Post by: Gordoape


    Yeah perfect ambush turn 1 can be a great way to punish mistakes, especially if your opponent gives you first turn thinking “this is the default against GSC”. You can put a blip all the way in the front of your dz just in case they deploy too far forward and pull it if necessary.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/24 04:09:59


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    It does however require selecting Stimulus pre game. Which may not be optimal and also telegraphs it a little. However, Most GSC Psykers have 2 powers but can only cast one so I guess they can keep it up their sleeve.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    though it would be a pretty big fail cascade to spend the 3 CP, move the unit halfway up the board and advance, then in the psychic phase, fail to cast.... which won't happen every game but even with the crouchling, is still a 1/6 chance, so it's likely to feth you out of a game in a tournament, considering you lost an assault unit, gave up a real kill turn 1, and lost 3 CP...

    it's less likely when you re-roll CP the lowest dice though I guess, I don't know the numbers on that. But still, it does make Purestrains look a little more attractive.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/24 06:39:06


    Post by: Mellon


    The math about rerolling the lowest dice to cast a WC6 psy power. A fail means a maximum of 5, there is a limited way to get that:
    A: 3+2 and 2+3. Reroll the 2, so 3+ will succeed.
    B: 2+2. Reroll one of the die, so 4+ will succeed.
    C: 1+2 and 2+1. Reroll the 1, so 4+ will succeed.
    D: 1+1. Reroll one die, so 5+ will succeed.

    Calculate the chance of failure for each of the four cases above.
    A happens 2/36 multiplied by 2/6 that fails = 4/216
    B happens 1/36 multiplied by 3/6 that fails = 3/216
    C happens 2/36 multiplied by 3/6 that fails = 6/216
    D happens 1/36 multiplied by 4/6 that fails = 4/216

    sum of the four cases is 17/216 ~=7.9% risk of failure. so 92% chance of success.

    If we add the Crouchling we only need 5 on the dice:
    A: 2+2. Reroll one die. 3+ will succeed
    B: 2+1 and 1+2. Reroll the 1. 3+ will succeed
    C: 1+1. Reroll one die. 4+ will succeed.

    A happens 1/36 multiplied by 2/6 that fails = 2/216
    B happens 2/36 multiplied by 2/6 that fails = 4/216
    C happens 1/36 multiplied by 3/6 that fails = 3/216

    Sum of the four is 9/216 ~= 4,2% risk of failure. So 96% chance of success.

    I'd say it's worth taking the chance with advance and Stimulus unless the charge would be really short even without it. Of course strats or psykers within deny range could make the odds much worse.

    But yeah, it will probably cost you the game if it doesn't work...


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/25 14:47:19


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Khorzain wrote:So how do you guys plan on dealing with Space Marine armies that have Infiltrator units blocking our deep-strike shenanigans?
    I've heard suggestions for using Hive Guard or Kraken-Genestealers to deal with them turn 1 — but I'd like to keep my list pure-GSC — and unfortunately our options seem to be very limited...


    I've mostly been relying on Goliath Trucks to deal with them. Autocannon fire is fairly effective against Primaris (each failed save is a dead marine) and Goliaths bring a fairly high volume of fire for their cost. They also can abuse forward deployed marines to get some extra movement by charging, if they happen to be carrying a more assault-oriented squad.

    For a more ambush-centric list I think one is limited to Atlan Jackals and Neophytes. Of the two I'd lean more towards the Jackals since they have the speed to get in range turn 1 so you can hopefully thin the infiltrators down before ambushers arrive. Alternatively, one could try to just ignore them and aim for areas outside of their defensive bubble. Infiltrators are a bit pricy for a troops option so I don't imagine that there will be too many unless the opponent is specifically tailoring for a deep strike meta (which admittedly is a trend between Orks, GSC, and the new Drop Pods).

    Nitro Zeus wrote:
    Great tactic there btw! Though Acolytes would still be better than Purestrains imo because as you said, psychic stimulus and also they benefit from Creeds, C4E gives them an extra 2” for example and if you can probably get Broodsurge charge rerolls and Clamavus inch without too much drama, should only have to string 2 or 3 Acolytes behind to reach their bubbles


    Agreed! It is a rather clever idea. In theory one could double down on the first turn aggression with some Rusted Claw Jackals + Flare Launcher (20-21'' move and shoot with shotgun/grenade launcher at normal accuracy), summon a unit, and maybe use Reckless Maneuver from the Broodsurge to toss out another. Probably too many moving parts to be truly nasty, but that is a possibility of 5-6 units on the opponent's doorstep without taking into account allies (aircraft from AM or Swarmy + 'Stealers from 'nids).

    Also just to clarify, Purestrain Genestealers do benefit from the Clamavus and other character buffs since they do have the <cult> keyword, they just don't get the passive ability associated with a given <cult>.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/26 05:34:20


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Yup, they get the Clamavus bonus, but don't get Broodsurge charge re-rolls as that's specific to Broodsurge units, which they are not


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/27 16:50:59


    Post by: landersloot


    So now,that they've nerfed the Kelermorph rerolling for himself and "they came from below" with the new FAQ, there isn't anything else they can possibly nerf for GSC going forward. Or is there?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/27 18:34:36


    Post by: Red Corsair


    The kellermorph isn't a big deal and honestly that interpretation was massaged out of the written word a few months after the book was out It definitely wasn't broken by any means, but in my experience it generally just wasted precious time off the clock.

    The nerf to reserves definitely effects strategy, but they also hit drop pods which means it was a consistent design choice for the game. I am OK with that too.

    I would have really liked us and the other older marine/CSM books to get traits army wide, still blows my mind that they wrote our book and the chaos 2.0 and messed that up lol.

    I will say as a whole this FAQ was kind of meh. They didn't really address anything major for the game. I would have liked to see them add in a set of terrain beta rules. The weakest part of 8th still lies with the lack of any real terrain rules IMHO. Well, that and codex creep.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/27 18:35:26


    Post by: Ordana


    landersloot wrote:
    So now,that they've nerfed the Kelermorph rerolling for himself and "they came from below" with the new FAQ, there isn't anything else they can possibly nerf for GSC going forward. Or is there?
    there is a LOT they can still do.
    And I could see them upping the price of hand flamers in CA.

    Overall this wasn't a big deal for GSC. Few that I know of played the Kelermorph that way (mostly because its tedious to resolve shots one by one until he gets a kill to proc the re-roll) and you can still get T4 deepstrikes by using Return to the shadows.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/27 18:42:47


    Post by: landersloot


     Ordana wrote:
    landersloot wrote:
    So now,that they've nerfed the Kelermorph rerolling for himself and "they came from below" with the new FAQ, there isn't anything else they can possibly nerf for GSC going forward. Or is there?
    there is a LOT they can still do.
    And I could see them upping the price of hand flamers in CA.

    Overall this wasn't a big deal for GSC. Few that I know of played the Kelermorph that way (mostly because its tedious to resolve shots one by one until he gets a kill to proc the re-roll) and you can still get T4 deepstrikes by using Return to the shadows.


    I really dont mind the changes and saw the clarification on "they came from below" coming. I'd definitely mind if they upped the cost on the handflamers


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/27 19:14:33


    Post by: Red Corsair


    I doubt they will. They don't inflict that much damage. Generally they get most of their impressions from events and any games I saw at from majors didn't really demonstrate hand flamers to be that great. Drop in, be greatful if they recoup their initial cost then die.

    The phobos marines are kind of a bigger issue for them anyway since they ruled in favor of deepstrike denial over lying in wait.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/30 13:28:19


    Post by: Lord Clinto


     Red Corsair wrote:
    I doubt they will. They don't inflict that much damage. Generally they get most of their impressions from events and any games I saw at from majors didn't really demonstrate hand flamers to be that great. Drop in, be greatful if they recoup their initial cost then die.



    I agree. Hand Flamers in my experience are either gimmicky or out of range all of the time. I don't see them increasing the points for them any time soon.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/30 14:30:50


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I updated the original post with the two FAQ clarifications.

     Ordana wrote:

    And I could see them upping the price of hand flamers in CA.


    I don't expect to see any faction-specific changes for the GSC this cycle. If some of the shared units or weapons have their prices altered (flamers, multi-meltas, plasma cannons, Russ turrets) those might be added for consistency sake. That being said, if they were aiming to nerf the flamer bomb I'd expect to see them hit Acolytes rather than the weapon itself, since Metamorphs have access to it as well and it is only really nasty when taken en-mass.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/09/30 15:37:24


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Acolytes and flamer bomb are strong but important tools for the army. Unlikely to be changed. Rock Saws though, are my number one pick for nerf prediction.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/02 02:30:15


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Keep in mind that omni scramblers really put the screws to several unit load outs. Hand flamers for one are next to useless in that match up since the FAQ. Rock saws are much less likely to touch things they want to in that same vein. So I imagine GSC will be pretty untouched. Honestly, the book is a mess anyway and it already has some serious issues and it has only been a bit over half a year lol.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/12 22:36:03


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Red Corsair wrote:
    Keep in mind that omni scramblers really put the screws to several unit load outs. Hand flamers for one are next to useless in that match up since the FAQ. Rock saws are much less likely to touch things they want to in that same vein.


    This is true, sadly. I am somewhat surprised that they ruled scramblers block stratagems given that they ruled the opposite for using counter-attack vs abilities that force a unit to swing last, but one can always hope for the next FAQ I suppose.

     Red Corsair wrote:

    So I imagine GSC will be pretty untouched.


    I agree, though as said Chapter Approved generally doesn't tinker with armies that have released within a 6 month window (Druhkari and Orks missed out last time if I remember right). We will probably get some indirect benefits from changes to Tyranids (wouldn't be surprised to see their monsters and multi-wound infantry drop a bit) and any changes to war gear shared with the Astra Militarum (Flamers are a likely candidate for a reduction, maybe some of the misc. heavy weapons like missile launchers).

     Red Corsair wrote:

    Honestly, the book is a mess anyway and it already has some serious issues and it has only been a bit over half a year lol.


    For discussion's sake, what issues have you been having with the book specifically?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 08:52:22


    Post by: addnid


    If they could simply reduce points for goliath trucks i see many "mad max" builds becoming viable all of a sudden.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 13:18:52


    Post by: Ratius


    Couple of questions for a GSC newb all related to matched play rules:

    1 Is there a way to get a turn one charge if units are placed underground or are GSC still subject to the T2 reserve restrictions?
    2 If units are in ambush and GSC get the first turn, a first turn charge is possible using perfect ambush, move, advance, charge?
    3 If an opponent gets first turn the GSC player must reveal all of his ambush units at the end of the opponents turn? This gives the opponent the chance to shoot them as normal? (assuming the blip isnt placed behind BLOS etc).
    4 Can you use a perfect ambush in your opponents movement phase to counter #3 ? The rule says "movement phase" not "your movement phase". I.e. you can get some shots or a move off?



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 13:40:06


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Ratius wrote:
    Couple of questions for a GSC newb all related to matched play rules:

    1 Is there a way to get a turn one charge if units are placed underground or are GSC still subject to the T2 reserve restrictions?
    2 If units are in ambush and GSC get the first turn, a first turn charge is possible using perfect ambush, move, advance, charge?
    3 If an opponent gets first turn the GSC player must reveal all of his ambush units at the end of the opponents turn? This gives the opponent the chance to shoot them as normal? (assuming the blip isnt placed behind BLOS etc).
    4 Can you use a perfect ambush in your opponents movement phase to counter #3 ? The rule says "movement phase" not "your movement phase". I.e. you can get some shots or a move off?



    1. The army is subject to the matched play reserve restrictions. The FAQ closed a loop-hole that allowed units sent into reserve with They Came From Below to arrive on the first turn, but said stratagem still allows us to put more than half the army in reserve. Currently the only way to get an underground ambush off on the first turn is to use Telepathic Summons on the first turn (which requires setting aside points).

    2. If units are being revealed from ambush tokens then yes this works. I believe this tactic was discussed in some detail on the previous page. You can also get a first turn charge with Atalan Jackals + Flare Launchers + Psychic Stimulus or the Broodsurge detachment's Reckless Maneuver stratagem.

    3. Tokens are revealed at the beginning of the opponent's shooting phase, so yes they can shoot. The main advantage of the blips is that you get to deploy after the opponent has committed their positions, so you can try to present sub-optimal targets. GSC is very good at doing denied flank deployment (where everything gets put to one side and splits the opponent's firepower).

    4. Yes you can. This is actually one of the nice things about the Sniper Sanctus, since you can have him pop up and take a potshot on the opponent's turn for free.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 13:52:03


    Post by: Ordana


     Ratius wrote:
    Couple of questions for a GSC newb all related to matched play rules:

    1 Is there a way to get a turn one charge if units are placed underground or are GSC still subject to the T2 reserve restrictions?
    2 If units are in ambush and GSC get the first turn, a first turn charge is possible using perfect ambush, move, advance, charge?
    3 If an opponent gets first turn the GSC player must reveal all of his ambush units at the end of the opponents turn? This gives the opponent the chance to shoot them as normal? (assuming the blip isnt placed behind BLOS etc).
    4 Can you use a perfect ambush in your opponents movement phase to counter #3 ? The rule says "movement phase" not "your movement phase". I.e. you can get some shots or a move off?
    1) GSC still has to abide by the tactical reserve rules so yes. T2 at the earliest. Even if you move a blip back into reserve with the stratagem.
    2)If the opponent is in range, sure.
    3)End of the opponents movement phase yes, so they can shoot you as normal.
    4)Yes you can use Perfect Ambush to move or shoot at that point.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 13:58:45


    Post by: Ratius


    Very helpful, thank you both.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 14:33:33


    Post by: Red Corsair


     Strat_N8 wrote:


    For discussion's sake, what issues have you been having with the book specifically?


    I mean, I saw the writing on the wall over a year ago when we got some stratagems in CA17. Then the release confirmed my fears entirely, that the army was going to live and die by stratagems. I own and play with several armies, none of my other armies rely on stratagems to function as they were designed. For example, my dark eldar are obviously made incredibly powerful with the addition of stratagems, but the army is still a fast glass canon without them. My guard, is still a mass of disposable infantry and supported by heavy tanks with crippling firepower. Etc etc.

    GSC should be an army that starts the game more or less with board control. That's how an ambush works. You don't decide to ambush someone, then realize they already occupy the space so show up someplace else, it's just silly. I was having a blast playing from the index and winning most of my games because I was ambushing neophytes turn 1 all over the place and using them to hold control and shoot screens down do my acolytes, genestealers and abbs could come in for the swing on turn 2 and beyond. Once the beta reserve rules hit the army was gutted.

    So I had one hope, that they would shift the ambush mechanic entirely, they did but in the most clunky absurd manner. Here have tokens that you don't have to book keep, but you kind of do. Now what I had hoped for was a VERY simple change, simply allow the infantry in the army to deploy via infiltration OR deep strike. Simple, I can set up during deployment just over 9" from the enemy deployment zone and enemy models or be placed in reserve arriving turn 2. This is how an actual ambush would work, you would be waiting closely for the enemy. Now I understand there is no fog of war, but they could have made GSC always count in cover or have a -1 hit mod on infantry in cover already on turn 1 to mitigate going second or being seized on. This would have been so much more thematic IMHO and so much simpler. You could still have powerful strats and traits, but they would be tricks to compliment the army and add flavor and flexibility. The army doesn't have a big whammy unit or good long ranged fire, and that's good IMHO, so long as you allow the army to have board control. Right now the simplest fix is to start adding in ranged units, I don't care for that solution since it's very unlike GSC.

    Those are the main issues I am referring to when I say the books a mess and needs a total overhaul. I HATE that the army relies entirely on stratagems to function as designed. I can literally play any of my other armies with zero strats and still win, I'd of course be at a disadvantage in the early game, but my army would still function as designed.

    None of that even touches on point costs, unit or gear profiles or the fact that genestealers in a GSC army are not only elites and more expensive then hivefleet stealers lol but they also don't get any traits. Something that is beyond piss poor design. Oh, AND the vehicles get boned lol. Vehicles that are not designed well to begin with. Rock grinders that are closed top lol or the fact that you can't throw demos without occupants, yet they cost double a normal demo charge.

    I love the army, I own 9 goliaths, 3 sentinels, 3 of every character, 22 abbs and over 300 infantry because the models and theme is so epic however every list I make degenerates into a mess of needing top farm CP, stack 3 doctrines and use vigilus detachments and then I need to play cagey and or rely on gotcha 40k. If you play a seasoned opponent that knows how GSC works, your going to struggle. I don't like that the army destroys people that have no idea how the army works, it just creates feel bad 40k.

    So yea, 2.5 years into 8th and this is my feeling on the army. I love them, but I find I play them hardly at all these days when so many other armies can be played as intended without a fething journal and a law degree to track all the "bespoke rules" interactions. It's like building and playing a one trick pony magic deck and relying on that perfect opening hand or first draw lol.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 14:41:49


    Post by: addnid


    RED CORSAIR you are so spot on ! I started collecting gsc in 7th and was hoping for a simple ambush mechanic, but all we get is a headache army (not as bad as during 7th though) that as you say is quite easy to beat for someone who knows the gotchas, or if you fail a few charges, but very very hard to beat for someone who rarely plays against them.

    I play them only with tyranid support now because it makes them less "one dimensional" this way. But I dslike the unfluffyness of it


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 14:41:54


    Post by: Red Corsair


    addnid wrote:
    If they could simply reduce points for goliath trucks i see many "mad max" builds becoming viable all of a sudden.


    I have done it and it works against people that are gun shy and don't know how to counter it. I'll elaborate. In this edition you get completely fethed over by terrain if your a vehicle and you don't have the fly keyword. Like, it's God damned silly how bottle necked and trapped you get when running more then 4 trucks. So any cheeky player like my brother lol will know you need to rush them through said choke points on the table and set up in such a way that you end up clumping transports, then using more mobile units and or strats, wrap your tanks prior to shooting them. Thus forcing the occupants to burn to death lol. Worst case scenario you manage to get out and there a MSU disposable unit blocking the column now. This game really needs some form of tank shock and a fix to terrain lol.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/16 14:45:56


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Genestealers went from the most attractive infantry in the dex to the least attractive. That’s not acceptable for a dex names after them imo, it feels too much like trying to encourage purchases away from the oldest model in the dex to sell newer stuff. Why are they 3 ppm more expensive than literally the exact same unit in Tyranids, and don’t even get cult traits for the cost? That’s flat out bs imo and I share that criticism strongly.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/17 04:14:02


    Post by: Khorzain


    addnid wrote:
    If they could simply reduce points for goliath trucks i see many "mad max" builds becoming viable all of a sudden.


    Yeah, I'd like to run a list like that, but my issue is pure GSC vehicles are are pretty easy to take down, so I feel like if I only bring a few then they become the only targets for my opponents anti-armor and get shot off the board by the second turn — but if I bring a bunch of vehicles it kind of cripples my army because of the massive points investment, and they're not really competitive units either.

    Achilles Ridgerunners need a hefty point drop and/or buff — 84pts is far too expensive for the Heavy Mining Laser version (which, between a Missile Launcher and Heavy Mortar, is the only good choice). I really wish we had the option for a Clearance Incinerator on the Ridgerunner, since it's perfectly suited for its role as a fast scout vehicle — but I'd settle for a move & shoot the main weapon without penalty ability, since I doubt our vehicles will be getting cult traits.

    I feel like Rockgrinders need an improvement as well — maybe 3+ WS, or changing the drilldozer blade to d6 damage rather than d3. Our other melee units are much more powerful in comparison.







    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/17 06:42:10


    Post by: addnid


     Khorzain wrote:
    addnid wrote:
    If they could simply reduce points for goliath trucks i see many "mad max" builds becoming viable all of a sudden.


    Yeah, I'd like to run a list like that, but my issue is pure GSC vehicles are are pretty easy to take down, so I feel like if I only bring a few then they become the only targets for my opponents anti-armor and get shot off the board by the second turn — but if I bring a bunch of vehicles it kind of cripples my army because of the massive points investment, and they're not really competitive units either.

    Achilles Ridgerunners need a hefty point drop and/or buff — 84pts is far too expensive for the Heavy Mining Laser version (which, between a Missile Launcher and Heavy Mortar, is the only good choice). I really wish we had the option for a Clearance Incinerator on the Ridgerunner, since it's perfectly suited for its role as a fast scout vehicle — but I'd settle for a move & shoot the main weapon without penalty ability, since I doubt our vehicles will be getting cult traits.

    I feel like Rockgrinders need an improvement as well — maybe 3+ WS, or changing the drilldozer blade to d6 damage rather than d3. Our other melee units are much more powerful in comparison.


    IMHO they just need a point decrease, like 20 points each. That would do the trick fine. They are rigged civilian vehicules, so in my opinion they are supposed to not be durable.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/17 16:05:18


    Post by: landersloot


    addnid wrote:
     Khorzain wrote:
    addnid wrote:
    If they could simply reduce points for goliath trucks i see many "mad max" builds becoming viable all of a sudden.


    Yeah, I'd like to run a list like that, but my issue is pure GSC vehicles are are pretty easy to take down, so I feel like if I only bring a few then they become the only targets for my opponents anti-armor and get shot off the board by the second turn — but if I bring a bunch of vehicles it kind of cripples my army because of the massive points investment, and they're not really competitive units either.

    Achilles Ridgerunners need a hefty point drop and/or buff — 84pts is far too expensive for the Heavy Mining Laser version (which, between a Missile Launcher and Heavy Mortar, is the only good choice). I really wish we had the option for a Clearance Incinerator on the Ridgerunner, since it's perfectly suited for its role as a fast scout vehicle — but I'd settle for a move & shoot the main weapon without penalty ability, since I doubt our vehicles will be getting cult traits.

    I feel like Rockgrinders need an improvement as well — maybe 3+ WS, or changing the drilldozer blade to d6 damage rather than d3. Our other melee units are much more powerful in comparison.


    IMHO they just need a point decrease, like 20 points each. That would do the trick fine. They are rigged civilian vehicules, so in my opinion they are supposed to not be durable.


    All of this and also bring back the cult limo because... it's a freakin limo


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/10/17 17:06:50


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Yea the truck should be much cheaper, the ridge runner as well. Oh and for god sake they need cult traits. That would be enough to get started but on a whole 8th really is a failure in regard to land based vehicles. A nurgling base can block a column of tanks lmao.

    But again, that isn't just a problem with GSC. Tanks should drive through ruins at the risk of taking a MW and tank shock needs to be reintroduced in a thoughtful way.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/15 23:15:30


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Red Corsair wrote:

    So any cheeky player like my brother lol will know you need to rush them through said choke points on the table and set up in such a way that you end up clumping transports, then using more mobile units and or strats, wrap your tanks prior to shooting them. Thus forcing the occupants to burn to death lol. Worst case scenario you manage to get out and there a MSU disposable unit blocking the column now.


    You can counter that tactic to some extent with Jackals. Their speed lets them screen trucks and they aren't too expensive in the grand scheme of things. They also are just tough enough that they don't entirely break saturation with the Truck spam, since the same sort of mid-strength firepower is needed for both. Most of my mechanized lists tend to have some Rockgrinders as well to act as the spearhead. While they don't hit as hard as the infantry, they can generally plow through most token chaff without problem between their guns and melee while drawing fire from the other vehicles.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/20 00:14:42


    Post by: Arbitrator


    What are peoples thoughts Aberrant unit size? MSU of x5 or a larger x10?

    I know the opinion is largely "Acolytes are still better" but I'm not keen on forking out for more boxes when they're liable to get nerfed into the dirt come CA.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/20 04:31:05


    Post by: Voss


     Arbitrator wrote:
    What are peoples thoughts Aberrant unit size? MSU of x5 or a larger x10?

    I know the opinion is largely "Acolytes are still better" but I'm not keen on forking out for more boxes when they're liable to get nerfed into the dirt come CA.


    Unless you're camping the Patriarch on top of them or adding some other sort of morale benefit (eating resources that could go elsewhere), 10 seems an invitation to kill them. They lose their relative toughness when it comes time to do morale losses- 2 wounds don't matter, bestial vigor doesn't matter, just pick up models and take them away.

    2 MSU seems strictly better than 1 10 sized unit.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/20 05:32:52


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Some of the strongest parts of Abberants are the stratagems that affect them. You should have a Patriarch and if you don’t you have a stratagem for morale that you don’t need elsewhere. If you are going to take them, maxing out units or at least making them large enough to benefit is probably a good idea.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/20 10:10:55


    Post by: Ordana


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    Some of the strongest parts of Abberants are the stratagems that affect them. You should have a Patriarch and if you don’t you have a stratagem for morale that you don’t need elsewhere. If you are going to take them, maxing out units or at least making them large enough to benefit is probably a good idea.
    This.
    1x10 is better then 2x5 because of stratagems, psychic powers (MfB) and because of how melee needs to commit. 5 runs into problems of not having enough hitting power to remove what you need to remove in 1 round without buffs so you need to send in 2 squads anyway.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/20 15:31:24


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Arbitrator wrote:
    What are peoples thoughts Aberrant unit size? MSU of x5 or a larger x10?


    It depends on what you want the unit to do. Five-strong units have the advantage of being able to operate fairly independently (don't need much support, not as concerned with moral) and hit harder than comparable 5-strong units. The downside is that they have relatively low maximum attack volume and aren't as effective recipients of stratagem and psychic support. Ten-strong units can generally smash whatever you point them at and are far more efficient recipients of buffs, but they do have concerns about moral checks and are more reliant upon support to make sure they can recuperate their cost.

    For me, 5-strong units are better when all that is needed is fairly self-contained assault unit with a small footprint that can drop in and pick on backfield units. The 10 strong units are better if you are focusing on Aberrants as your main heavy hitters and have the infrastructure in place to support them (Primus, Clamavus, Patriarch or Reliquary of Saint Tenndarc, Iconward, etc.). I usually run the 5-strong as 4x Picks + Signpost Hypermorph to maximize attack volume, while the 10-strong unit tends to have a mix of weapons (generally 4x Picks, 2x Hypermorphs, 4x Hammers) to let them handle a wider variety of targets.

     Arbitrator wrote:

    I know the opinion is largely "Acolytes are still better" but I'm not keen on forking out for more boxes when they're liable to get nerfed into the dirt come CA.


    I don't anticipate any changes for us specifically in this upcoming chapter approved. Even still, with the current environment I don't imagine Acolytes are very high on the radar in terms of things to complain about.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/22 02:33:38


    Post by: Khorzain


    I really hope we don't get hit by the nerf bat, just because Chapter Approved was likely written before the devs had any time to balance it against the new Space Marine codex & supplements.

    Speaking of which, has anyone had matches against post-supplement/faq Space Marines, particularly Ultramarines/Iron Hands? What was your experience? How did you go about fighting them? Any GSC units that performed particulary well against them, or Space Marine units that you had issues dealing with?

    A Warhammer store finally opened in my city, and I'm starting to seriously consider finishing up my Genestealer Cult army so I can use it in the wild. Space Marines 2.0 are the only faction I really just don't know how I'd fight against with pure GSC, especially if they include a couple Infiltrator units.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/23 21:28:16


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Khorzain wrote:

    Speaking of which, has anyone had matches against post-supplement/faq Space Marines, particularly Ultramarines/Iron Hands? What was your experience? How did you go about fighting them? Any GSC units that performed particulary well against them, or Space Marine units that you had issues dealing with?


    I've had two games so far with the new marines, one with pure GSC (vs raven guard) and one with pure 'nids (vs Iron Hands pre-nerf). The game with the raven guard was a bit rough , but I think it was more due to our terrain set up than the two armies. We played on a necron-themed table which had several monolith-style structures and very little cover otherwise. My opponent just infiltrated a bunch of snipers on top a central ziggurat and I never had a chance to get them down (structure was too tall to assault and he had deep strike denial everywhere). I was able to put up a fair fight with my trucks but anytime infantry were exposed they just melted (again, bad terrain set up). At the end of the game I had 2 trucks, 2 squads of Neophytes (one on foot, one embarked), and a squad and a half of Acolytes (full squad was embarked, half squad was on the table) while the opponent had his central firebase (2 squads of the Primaris snipers, Lieutenant, Captain, and a libby) and a venerable dreadnaught.

    The Iron Hands game ended up a disaster, but I attributed it more to showing up with a pre-built list and my opponent doing everything in his power to skew things in his favor. I brought a comparatively friendly Kronos gunline with a swarm of Termagants, three Tervigons, two Exocrines, and a full brood of Zoanthropes. The opponent insisted on using power level (so my pre-built army was about 20% more expensive - I had to cut some things from the original list to make room) and I am fairly confident he tailored his list specifically to combat mine, since he brought three Redempter Dreadnaughts with double Onslaught cannons (mass S5 shooting), Aggressors, and a bunch of plasma. It was mostly an exercise in me pulling models off the table and the opponent was generally insufferable (threw a fit about Zoanthropes having a 3++ and complained about my respawning Termagants).

    I am going to try to get some more games in once finals week is concluded. I'm currently leaning towards a Bladed Cog list as the best counter. The trait counteracts some of the extra AP flying around and indirectly buffs our anti-MEQ shooting (Mining Lasers and Seismic Cannons). The Kelermorph and Locus also did rather well in the game in question and Bladed Cog improves their existing invulnerable saves to a more respectable 4+. Also, an Abominant with the Bladed Cog relic is a serviceable counterpart to the infamous smash captain (doesn't hit as hard, but a bit tankier between a 3++, bestial vigor, and regeneration).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/25 02:42:55


    Post by: Red Corsair


    I switched to bladed cog already as well. With all the AP-2 or better floating around, Rusted Claw is DOA. At least with BCog I get a guaranteed 6++ and I can move and shoot neophyte mining lasers with no penalty. The game plan overall is move block and hide and win on points before the tabling though, new marines just do everything better, they control the entire board upon deployment, zone block our entire gimmick and piss high quality attacks in every phase.

    I'd say we need a point drop in CA, but I don't think that saves us. I really wish the army was written in an elgant way and not this clunky blip crap. All the army needed for cult ambush was as follows:

    Cult Ambush: A unit with this ability can deploy anywhere on the battlefield more then 9 inches from enemy models and more then 9 inches from the enemy deployment zone. Alternatively the unit may deploy under ground. If a unit deploys underground at the end of the movement phase it may be set up anywhere on the battlefield more then 9 inches from enemy models following the rules for tactical reserves.

    Instead we got the terrible blip mechanic that forces our ambushers into our deployment zone turn 1 if they don't deploy under ground. At first it sounded flexible until you play a game and realize there is only so much room for 15-20+ blips and the spots are all rather predictable anyway.

    Then there are the other obvious flaws, like tying all our tricks to stratagems when the army is a horde not elite, so you don't get the same mileage out of strats. Or having sub par traits that also don't apply to half the units in the book.

    It's really sad that Raven Guard and White Scars both ambush their army better then GSC.

    That said, since all we can hope for are point drops, I really hope a fair number of our characters are dropped, because a lot of them are WAY too pricey. Abomanant needs to go back down to 80. Clamavus, Nexos, sanctus and jackal are all at least 10 points too expensive if not more. It really adds up since the characters are currently required in heavy supply.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/27 15:30:55


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Red Corsair wrote:
    With all the AP-2 or better floating around, Rusted Claw is DOA.


    I sadly have to agree. The Rusted Claw's toolbox is fairly narrow without the armor enhancement. I think they can still be justified as an outrider detachment filled with Jackals (Drive By Demolitions is still good and the trait ability makes Wolfquads good mining laser platforms), but it will struggle as an army-wide trait in a meta dominated by marines and counter-marine shooting.

    Currently, I think the best creeds are probably Bladed Cog, Hivecult, and Twisted Helix. Four-Armed Emperor has a nice toolbox, but given deep strike denial I am unsure as to how reliably the creed ability will trigger (similar to the issue Rusted Claw faces). I do like Pauper Princes, but their toolbox doesn't really help solve the two most pressing concerns we have at the moment: survival and dealing with deep strike denial. Bladed Cog and Hivecult both offer tools to improve the shooting capabilities of the army (helping with deep strike denial) and add some form of durability (invul for Bladed Cog, moral resilience for Hivecult) while Twisted Helix offers a reliable threat range extension to get assault troops up the field if ambush is closed off.


     Red Corsair wrote:
    Instead we got the terrible blip mechanic that forces our ambushers into our deployment zone turn 1 if they don't deploy under ground. At first it sounded flexible until you play a game and realize there is only so much room for 15-20+ blips and the spots are all rather predictable anyway.


    I know I should like a broken record (for which I apologize), but I have found the blip system works well enough for mechanized builds. Mech really likes getting to deploy after the opponent has designated where their primary anti-armor is going to be and vehicle-heavy lists tend to have fewer drops overall which increases the relative effectiveness of blip manipulation (moving a blip concealing a vehicle is more valuable than moving a blip containing Brood Brothers).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/28 00:04:08


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Sure, I actually agree and in the past have promoted the idea of full mech on here as well. I have 6 trucks and 3 grinders, however terrain REALLY becomes a problem when your going so mech heavy and don't fly, so I was ending up in columns verse smart opponents and getting move blocked by cheap throw away units.

    Heaven help a goliath in the new marine meta. I am now back to spamming neophytes and characters. it's a rather boring build though.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/30 17:11:30


    Post by: Khorzain


    Chapter Approved 2019 changes:

    HQ

    -None-

    Troops

    Acolyte Hybrids:
  • Heavy Rock Drill - Down 2 points: from 17 to 15

  • Demolition Charge: up 5 points: from 5 to 10

  • Neophyte Hybrids went up to 55pts per model, RAW

    Elites

    Aberrants - Up 3 points: from 16 to 19
  • Heavy Improvised Weapon - Up 15 points: from 10 to 25pts


  • Hybrid Metamorphs - Down 2 points: from 9 to 7
  • Metamorph Claw - Down 2 points: from 4 to 2


  • Kelermorph - Up 15 points: from 60 to 75


    Fast Attack

    Achilles Ridgerunner
    - Went down 15 points: from 50 to 35
  • Heavy Mining Laser - Down 10 points: from 25 to 15

  • Missile Launcher - Down 5 points: from 15 to 10

  • Atalan Jackals:
  • Demolition Charge: Up 5 points: from 5 to 10


  • Heavy Support

    Cult Leman Russ - Down 15 points: from 122 to 107

    Goliath Rockgrinder:
  • Clearance Incinerator - down 10 points: from 30 to 20

  • Heavy Mining Laser - down 10 points: from 25 to 15

  • Heavy Seismic Cannon: down 5 points: from 20 to 15


  • Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/30 22:22:36


    Post by: Badablack


    Ridgerunners might actually be runnable now. Lol at those hypermorph changes though.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/11/30 22:55:46


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I suppose I'll have to eat my proverbial hat... I honestly thought based on previous years that we were going to be passed over this cycle. Obviously I am not particularly thrilled with the cost increases listed (need time to adequately gather my thoughts), so I'll focus more on what so far has been listed as dropping:

     Khorzain wrote:

    Hybrid Metamorphs - Down 2 points: from 9 to 7
  • Metamorph Claw - Down 2 points: from 4 to 2



  • This is actually very interesting. Now there is an option to pay 2 points to specialize the model for dedicated anti-horde (twin-talons) or anti-heavy infantry (claw), pay 1 point to go for a generalist (Talon + Rending Claw), or simply side-grade from an Acolyte for +1 attack but no heavy weapons (Whip). Hand flamers should be a more appealing option as well, since they aren't paying such a premium over their troop counterparts for the privilege.

    I had already favored deploying Metamorphs with Psychic Summons, but with the prices on their equipment equalized it makes it much easier to tailor the squad to the opponent without having left over points floating around. I'll have to dust off my Claw-morphs and see how squads of them fair now.

     Khorzain wrote:

    Achilles Ridgerunner - Went down 15 points: from 50 to 35
  • Heavy Mining Laser - Down 10 points: from 25 to 15

  • Missile Launcher - Down 5 points: from 15 to 10



  • Unexpected but very much welcome adjustments all around. The Missile Launcher change is probably more useful for Sentinels than the Ridgerunner, if only because the Heavy Mining Laser is a nice weapon with limited access. I'd be curious if any of the systems upgrades dropped in cost as well, but even still a ~25 point savings goes a long way towards another hull or more troops. I already had a few lists with 15 odd vehicles, so it will be interesting to see if the cost revisions allow me to squeeze in any more.

     Khorzain wrote:

    Cult Leman Russ - Down 15 points: from 122 to 107


    I assume this is the same reduction that the AM version received? In either case, cheaper anvil pieces are nice to have.

     Khorzain wrote:

    Goliath Rockgrinder:
  • Clearance Incinerator - down 10 points: from 30 to 20

  • Heavy Mining Laser - down 10 points: from 25 to 15

  • Heavy Seismic Cannon: down 5 points: from 20 to 15


  • More or less same sentiments as the Ridgerunner. The weapon cost drops reduce the cost of the chassis a fair amount and make it easier to squeeze more hulls in. The only thing I'm not sure I like is that the Heavy Mining Laser and Heavy Seismic Cannon are at the same cost. It will be interesting to see which gun ends up being better for budget Rockgrinders, since the Seismic Cannon offers more consistency with its fixed rate of fire but the Mining Laser has more damage potential and obviously has better range for its high powered shots.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/04 18:32:30


    Post by: Asmodas


    Very happy about the rock drill, ridgerunner and metamorph changes. I am very interested in trying out 10 morph squads with hand flamers and talons for a mass attack type unit. 6 x morph squads with claws in rockgrinders seems like it could be fun too.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/04 19:50:56


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Rule of three nips that in the bum.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/04 20:47:36


    Post by: Asmodas


    I meant units of 6 models, not 6 units of Metamorphs, sorry for the confusion.

    The awkward transport size of the Rockgrinder really limits its utility as a transport for most of our units. I have used aberrants in rockgrinders, but they tend to make the vehicle a huge target. Not a big fan of 5-6 man acolyte squads, either, as they don’t generate enough attacks to really kill anything. But a 6 man unit of morphs with hand flamers and either talons or claws is cheap enough at 60 points, and gets either 31 S4 AP - attacks that hit on a 2+, or in the case of claws 19 S6 AP -1 attacks. Not bad, and at 60 points for the squad it’s not a big deal if they die.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/05 02:59:11


    Post by: Khorzain


    I was interested in fielding a unit of Metamorphs before CA, now with the points reduction, they do seem to be a decent option.

    Give them a Cult Icon and dual-talon metamorphs hit on 2's and re-roll 1's, which allows them to be fairly self-sufficient without character support. The high number of attacks and hit reliability seems great for GEQ screen clearance — but the lack of AP might be an issue for MEQs.

    Although if you use something to give them +1 strength then they'll be wounding T4 on 3's, which is really nice when paired with the high number of attacks.

    I'm still not entirely sold on the Metamorph Claws though. You do get to wound T3 on 2's, but it's only -1 AP and 1 damage — comparatively you miss out on 10-20 attacks and have -1 to hit unless you drop them next to a Primus. There's a few ways to bump claws up to S8 — but I don't think it's really worth it considering the low AP and damage — I believe our standard Acolytes are still better for that.

    I do like the idea of running 6 of them in a Rockgrinder, though I'm not sure how to effectively use them yet.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/05 15:13:47


    Post by: Asmodas


    Well, S6 gives them a bit of versatility, as they can threaten light armor and are much more effective against T5 things, like Death Guard. Also, claws are not -1 to hit (perhaps you just meant they don’t get the +1 to hit that talons do?), so I’m not really seeing the issue. The 6 morph unit gets 19 attacks, so probably 12-13 hits. Against MEQs, the performance of the weapons is identical:

    12.66 hits translate into ~8.3 wounds. At a 4+ save, the MEQs take about 4.15 unsaved wounds.

    31 S4 attacks hits 5/6 of the time = 25.8 hits. Wound on a 4 reduces that to 12.9 wounds. Save on a 3+ = 4.3 wounds after saves. So a very slightly better performance by the talons, but pretty marginal and maybe you would prefer the extra versatility that claws offer against some opponents who have a lot of T5/T6 things. And the points cost of both models is now identical at 9 points. Just a thought.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/14 23:49:17


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I think the main point of differentiation between claws or talons is probably going to be how much support you are willing to invest in the unit. Talon-morphs are mostly independent. They only support they really like is some sort of strength buff, Calamus' +1 to charges buff, and Meticulous Uprising for rerolls to wound. Claw-morphs in contrast basically benefit from everything and have a higher potential to get silly (41 S9 attacks that hit on 2s, reroll 1's to hit and reroll 1's to wound against a key target?)

    I'm planning on giving both specialized configurations a go to see who performs better (I have used the Single-Talon Metamorphs and they shredded everything I pointed them at). I'd imagine claws will still probably see a play even if talons end up being stronger, from all the people who bought and converted them in high quantities for the 7th edition book and haven't had a good reason to pull them out until now.

    Also as an inquiry, how much work has anyone gotten out of a sniper Sanctus? I've been a bit shy about bringing mine as one of our regulars plays multi-wound Grey Knights (Dreadknights and Terminators/Paladins) and they would throw a fit facing him down. That being said, our group is starting to see an uptick in psykers generally so I think his inclusion might now be seen as a more take-all-comers asset rather than tailoring for one opponent.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/15 04:25:46


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    I use the Sanctus. He is consistent enough to change the outcome of some games and cheap enough that I don't care when he's occasionally a weak vindicare taking potshots at characters. He's really good support for psykers and hunts down denies letting me go in with my 6 psykers of my own.

    He does deploy with -1 to hit unless you blip him however, or put him in Rusted Claw. Worth keeping in mind.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/15 08:29:09


    Post by: Badablack


    The kitted our Sanctus is great, and one of our few ways of hurting obnoxious stuff like eldar hemlocks.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/18 02:20:49


    Post by: Asmodas


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    I think the main point of differentiation between claws or talons is probably going to be how much support you are willing to invest in the unit. Talon-morphs are mostly independent. They only support they really like is some sort of strength buff, Calamus' +1 to charges buff, and Meticulous Uprising for rerolls to wound. Claw-morphs in contrast basically benefit from everything and have a higher potential to get silly (41 S9 attacks that hit on 2s, reroll 1's to hit and reroll 1's to wound against a key target?)

    I'm planning on giving both specialized configurations a go to see who performs better (I have used the Single-Talon Metamorphs and they shredded everything I pointed them at). I'd imagine claws will still probably see a play even if talons end up being stronger, from all the people who bought and converted them in high quantities for the 7th edition book and haven't had a good reason to pull them out until now.


    Pretty much this.

    I have quite a few modeled with claws from back in 7th. I also happened to model all my metamorphs with hand flamers, just because I liked the look of the weapon better than the auto pistols. I also built a bunch of talon morphs and whip morphs, so I’m pretty pumped to see them looking interesting again.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    He does deploy with -1 to hit unless you blip him however, or put him in Rusted Claw. Worth keeping in mind.


    I think you mean Bladed Cog?

    I have been looking forward to trying out the Sanctus, too, but still haven’t gotten around to painting him up.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/18 06:05:57


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    yeah i probably mean the cog sorry i get those two mixed up.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/18 12:50:17


    Post by: Asmodas


    No worries, they are very similar abilities. I really like Bladed Cog actually, as I run a lot of Mining Laser/Seismic Cannon neophytes, so using a Sanctus in my Cog list sounds like a pretty fun addition. I am interested in hearing more about how they have worked for other people. I assume you take it with the Gift from Beyond relic?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/18 15:56:18


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    its a worthless unit without the gift but really powerful with it. Don't spend the CP for that relic unless there is psykers though. Just let him be 60 pts off your list that will take potshots at wounded HQ's in those matches.

    He does what he says on the tin, deals with psykers for minimal points. Really good if that's a role your team needs. I run 6 psykers so he hunts denies for me and just getting rid of enemy powers or boxing them into a corner is never bad


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/18 17:52:42


    Post by: Asmodas


    That sounds pretty useful, for sure. I typically run fewer psykers than that, but I also play against Craftworlds quite a bit, and their psykers and Hemlocks are extremely annoying, so I can definitely find a use for it (good point about using them against Hemlocks - I hadn’t thought of that, but that is a really strong potential use).

    Too bad that farseers shrug off the mortals so easily with their ghosthelms, though there are usually other things like warlocks, spiritseers and the aforementioned Hemlocks (hate those things, although maybe we’ll be seeing a bit less of them with the points bump they got in CA). Farseers are the worst, though, with their re-rollable deny. You basically have to bait that one out, and that is usually going to cost us one of our better powers.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/19 06:16:43


    Post by: Strat_N8


    So, I managed to get a game on Tuesday with the following list:
    Spoiler:

    Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor Battalion:
    HQ: Primus
    HQ: Iconward

    ELITE: 1x Nexos
    ELITE: 1x Clamavus
    ELITE: 10x Metamorphs with 5x Talon/Rending Claw, 3x Metamorph Claws, 1x Duel Talons, Leader with Bonesword and Duel Talons
    ELITE: 10x Metamorphs with 5x Talon/Rending Claw, 3x Metamorph Claws, 1x Duel Talons, Leader with Bonesword and Duel Talons

    TROOPS: 10x Acolytes with 2x Rock Saws, 1x Rock Drill
    TROOPS: 10x Acolytes with 2x Rock Saws, 1x Rock Drill
    TROOPS: 10x Acolytes with 2x Rock Saws, 1x Rock Drill


    Hivecult Battalion:
    HQ: 1x Patriarch with 1x Familiar
    HQ: 1x Magus

    ELITE: 1x Sanctus

    TROOPS: 10x Neophytes with 8x Autoguns, 2x Mining Lasers
    TROOPS: 10x Neophytes with 8x Autoguns, 2x Mining Lasers
    TROOPS: 10x Neophytes with 8x Autoguns, 2x Mining Lasers
    TROOPS: 10x Neophytes with 8x Autoguns, 2x Mining Lasers

    DT: 1x Goliath Truck
    DT: 1x Goliath Truck
    DT: 1x Goliath Truck
    DT: 1x Goliath Truck


    Hivecult Outrider:

    HQ: 1x Jackal Alphus

    FAST: 8x Atlan Jackals with shotguns, cult knives
    FAST: 8x Atlan Jackals with shotguns, cult knives
    FAST: 3x Achilles Ridgerunners with 3x Heavy Mining Lasers, Spotters


    My opponent brought his Ravenguard with a mix of different units (no Centurions or Aggressors, mostly vanguard marines).

    Sanctus did well. He nearly 1-shot a Libby on the first turn and finished them off at the start of the 3rd turn. Using Perfect Ambush on the first turn to double-tap was quite nice. My opponent wasn't very happy with him as was expected, but they mostly left him alone in favor of going after other characters. The Hivecult detachment in general pulled most of the weight in the game, surprisingly. The first turn saw them various guns pick off infiltrators and the second turn had the Achilles 1-shot a Stormraven with some help from Chilling Efficiency and the Alphus.

    The biggest problem I had in the game was horrendously bad charge rolls... Out of 8 odd charges I only made 3 (some Jackals, an Acolyte squad, and an Iconward), despite rerolls and cumulative bonuses from Four-Armed Emperor and the Clamavus. We had to end the game early due to a prior arrangement my opponent had so I'm not sure how it would have ended if we had been able to finish it. I was in a bad place, with a bunch of units left out in the open after failing their charge and down 5 points on objectives (we played one of the new Chapter Approved missions with start-of-turn scoring). Conversely, I had succeeded in cleared one objective and had units in position to take another one, so it might have been possible to rebound.

    In either case, I did learn a fair amount from the game and it was a good experience overall. I'm going to keep tinkering with this core list, as it felt like it had a good toolset but some things could stand to be optimized further (I kinda threw a bit of everything in to see how the point drops turned out).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/19 20:18:33


    Post by: Asmodas


    Sounds like a fun game. I love the drills, but I really feel like the unit has to be built around supporting them. I’m sure you were just giving them a go (not everybody has six drillers built and ready to go, like I do), but I feel like they are more likely to disappoint if you just throw one random drill in a unit. They at least need an Icon for a re-roll, and I tend to use Pauper Princes with them to get full re-rolls, as it is a real downer when they whiff, and with only 2 attacks that can happen pretty easily.

    I like the Hivecult part of the list, though. Looks fun.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/20 00:34:35


    Post by: Arbitrator


    What're peoples thoughts on Aberrants in units of x5 now? I'm guessing x10 is a bit steep of an investment since the nerf?

    I know the answer is, "Acolytes are still better" but frankly I'm not keen on shelling out that much for another four boxes.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/20 02:01:20


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Asmodas wrote:Sounds like a fun game. I love the drills, but I really feel like the unit has to be built around supporting them. I’m sure you were just giving them a go (not everybody has six drillers built and ready to go, like I do), but I feel like they are more likely to disappoint if you just throw one random drill in a unit. They at least need an Icon for a re-roll, and I tend to use Pauper Princes with them to get full re-rolls, as it is a real downer when they whiff, and with only 2 attacks that can happen pretty easily.


    You are correct. I basically just tossed in everything that had a cost drop to get a feel for how they perform relative to their new costs. I didn't get an opportunity to test the drills sadly. The lone Acolyte squad that made a charge failed its wound rolls and the game ended before we could do a follow-up turn.

    I think you are right though that they are far better run as a unit-wide upgrade rather than singles. I might give such unit a try next week.

    Asmodas wrote:
    I like the Hivecult part of the list, though. Looks fun.


    It was! I was pleasantly surprised at how they performed. The creed ability didn't really come up (Patriarch stopped moral, nothing charged into my units) but their stratagem and warlord trait are both quite nice. Also the Achilles feel very nice at their new cost. As mentioned they had an extremely lucky turn and downed a Stormraven in one go, but even beyond that they did a good job picking off infiltrators and hellblasters from outside retaliation range.

    Arbitrator wrote:What're peoples thoughts on Aberrants in units of x5 now? I'm guessing x10 is a bit steep of an investment since the nerf?

    I know the answer is, "Acolytes are still better" but frankly I'm not keen on shelling out that much for another four boxes.


    I think Aberrants should still be usable in either configuration, but I'm not sure if the Hypermorph is worth it as much with the Improvised Weapon being hiked so high (can almost buy another power pick model for the cost). For units of 5x I'd probably forgo the Hypermorph entirely and just use them as relatively independent murder squads to pick off isolated targets. The 10x squad is a hefty investment, but Aberrants have a lot of force multipliers unique to them so running a large squad does make them more efficient in that regard. I imagine the "go to" squad will probably be 8x Picks and 2x Hypermorphs with Hammers (since they still get +1 attack over a regular Hammer Aberrant) as Bladed Cog (for invul + stratagem), Pauper Princes (relic and accuracy), or Twisted Helix (stratagem and strength).

    We're planning on giving the spearhead rules a try next week, so I might bring a couple squads of 5x with Hammers as dedicated heavy armor hunters. Even with the price hike such squads are relatively affordable and hard hitting despite their small footprint.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/20 04:09:18


    Post by: Bdrone


    Hello Genestealer folk! i have a bit of a question.

    Ive been looking into this army for an idea focused on a Great Horned Rat cult. I love the ambush nature which makes even hsorter ranged shooting more viable in my eyes. but, i was wondering how at this point this army stacks up for firepower, especially in light of the recent changes. I was thinking a Bladed Cog list for lasers and maybe a flaming bomb, but do any of you run shooting lists?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/20 06:15:23


    Post by: Mellon


    Bdrone wrote:
    Hello Genestealer folk! i have a bit of a question.

    Ive been looking into this army for an idea focused on a Great Horned Rat cult. I love the ambush nature which makes even hsorter ranged shooting more viable in my eyes. but, i was wondering how at this point this army stacks up for firepower, especially in light of the recent changes. I was thinking a Bladed Cog list for lasers and maybe a flaming bomb, but do any of you run shooting lists?


    That sounds like an awesome concept for an army!

    You are thinking absolutely right. Bladed Cog or HiveCult for neophytes with mining lasers (add webbers or grenade launchers if you like to). Handflamer bomb is also nice. Ridgerunners with heavy mining lasers are also good since the points drop in Chapter Approved.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/20 08:22:09


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    A cult worshipping the best-best Chaos God? I support that!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/20 10:07:50


    Post by: Bdrone


    It's a concept i saw floating about, but i had to consider it. one of the best things about the GSC to me is the ability to play renegade like concepts. Then I discovered how with count-as and kitbash you could run them in different ways conceptually. But then it clicked, chaos bands can work if you figure out how to story and model it.

    A mere hop from that, and the Skaven came to me. Deep striking as tunneling strikes? Cobbled weaponry? Cult mutations as gifts from the rat? Aberrants and the biophages vaguely reminding me of master moulders? It works! It's a long plan, and im still trying to figure out good stand ins for some of the models, including the aberrants and jackals, but im getting somewhere on this idea.

    (Aberrants issue is the base sizes and trying to track down something that bulks properly and fits on the same base. With rat ogres being so rare nowadays I might stick with them as is, righting some of the current models as mutations from the warp/warpstone. Jackals? thats where im not sure at all)

    Normally im REALLY big on shooting, but i feel like the deep-strike capability of the army makes up for the lack of rangebands it does have. I did see the ridgerunner got a LOT more viable as well, but as I understand it, the rules in the army are a bit odd. Bladed Cog won't work with the ridgerunners, will it? How effective is a bulk mining laser and bomb technique? I assume you need the right melee punch, which I figure would be acolytes and aberrants?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/23 01:24:58


    Post by: Red Corsair


     Asmodas wrote:
    No worries, they are very similar abilities. I really like Bladed Cog actually, as I run a lot of Mining Laser/Seismic Cannon neophytes, so using a Sanctus in my Cog list sounds like a pretty fun addition. I am interested in hearing more about how they have worked for other people. I assume you take it with the Gift from Beyond relic?


    Sorry I know this is late to the party but I had a Sanctus double tap a keeper of secrets (the 12 wound version prior to the new model) and I rolled hot maxing out both damages on the gun and the perils killing it and making it explode into the guys entire army. I think we counted the wounds caused in the end after the perils explosion and he caused 22 wounds total including the keeper. He has since never lived up to that moment and I doubt he ever will It was one of the most insane moments I have ever had in the game.

    Sanctus with gift from beyond is nasty verse psychers, always spend CP on extra blips so you can put them in good angled positions for him to pop a psycher from when he is deployed without committing other units to those odd spots.

    On a side note, I actually have used him recently with the relic dagger instead, since he can drop in later in the game when your usually out of CP and perfect ambush nice and close to a character. He is really good that way too actually, better then I expected. Honestly the two sniper characters we have are my MVP's just about every game when I dust the cult off for a scrum. The army isn't in a great spot at high point games, but they are still a load of fun in lower point laid back games.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/23 01:52:06


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


     Red Corsair wrote:
     Asmodas wrote:
    No worries, they are very similar abilities. I really like Bladed Cog actually, as I run a lot of Mining Laser/Seismic Cannon neophytes, so using a Sanctus in my Cog list sounds like a pretty fun addition. I am interested in hearing more about how they have worked for other people. I assume you take it with the Gift from Beyond relic?


    Sorry I know this is late to the party but I had a Sanctus double tap a keeper of secrets (the 12 wound version prior to the new model) and I rolled hot maxing out both damages on the gun and the perils killing it and making it explode into the guys entire army. I think we counted the wounds caused in the end after the perils explosion and he caused 22 wounds total including the keeper. He has since never lived up to that moment and I doubt he ever will It was one of the most insane moments I have ever had in the game.

    Sanctus with gift from beyond is nasty verse psychers, always spend CP on extra blips so you can put them in good angled positions for him to pop a psycher from when he is deployed without committing other units to those odd spots.



    This is exactly why I love the Sanctus. He's only 60 points and that won't happen every game. But sometimes that 60 points just gives you an amazing lead. And even when it doesn't happen, the impact it can have over the course of 5 round game, or just the fear it can generate vs certain lists, makes it so good to me.

    I had mine first blood kill an Ahriman and get slay the warlord - in my OPPONENT's first turn. He was planning on warptiming his way back after getting in some cheap damage but Sanctus blew his friggin dome back, before I'd even started my first turn.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/23 14:15:18


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Ha ha, thats great. Yea it's oddly satisfying seeing a human level sniper be so threatening in a game with the scale and scope of 40k. I think the sanctus and alphus have more kills in my lists then the kellermorphs. People just ignore them lol.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/24 16:47:18


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Red Corsair wrote:
     Asmodas wrote:
    No worries, they are very similar abilities. I really like Bladed Cog actually, as I run a lot of Mining Laser/Seismic Cannon neophytes, so using a Sanctus in my Cog list sounds like a pretty fun addition. I am interested in hearing more about how they have worked for other people. I assume you take it with the Gift from Beyond relic?


    Sorry I know this is late to the party but I had a Sanctus double tap a keeper of secrets (the 12 wound version prior to the new model) and I rolled hot maxing out both damages on the gun and the perils killing it and making it explode into the guys entire army. I think we counted the wounds caused in the end after the perils explosion and he caused 22 wounds total including the keeper. He has since never lived up to that moment and I doubt he ever will It was one of the most insane moments I have ever had in the game.

    Sanctus with gift from beyond is nasty verse psychers, always spend CP on extra blips so you can put them in good angled positions for him to pop a psycher from when he is deployed without committing other units to those odd spots.

    On a side note, I actually have used him recently with the relic dagger instead, since he can drop in later in the game when your usually out of CP and perfect ambush nice and close to a character. He is really good that way too actually, better then I expected. Honestly the two sniper characters we have are my MVP's just about every game when I dust the cult off for a scrum. The army isn't in a great spot at high point games, but they are still a load of fun in lower point laid back games.


    Yes the Sniper sanctus is only viable with the Gift from Beyond which actually fixes his S4 problem and gives him a free MW on a 4+ (which sometimes is enough to trigger Perils off and give you a chance to kill a 4W Psyker on the spot)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/24 16:52:49


    Post by: Madjob


    Bdrone wrote:
    (Aberrants issue is the base sizes and trying to track down something that bulks properly and fits on the same base. With rat ogres being so rare nowadays I might stick with them as is, righting some of the current models as mutations from the warp/warpstone. Jackals? thats where im not sure at all)


    Rat Ogres would be terribly oversized, Aberrants and even the Abominant are barely larger than even the newer upscaled "human" infantry models, in fact I think they're probably coming in shorter than the new Sisters, as an example, thanks to their hunches. They're obviously a lot wider though, but yea Rat Ogres would be much too large.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/24 19:59:09


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Bdrone wrote:
    (Aberrants issue is the base sizes and trying to track down something that bulks properly and fits on the same base. With rat ogres being so rare nowadays I might stick with them as is, righting some of the current models as mutations from the warp/warpstone. Jackals? thats where im not sure at all)


    Aberrants are around the same size as the classic Marines. I'm not sure if there is anything in the Skaven army list that would fit very well. You could maybe find something in the Beastman range around the same size, just do a head-swap and it should work ok.

    For Jackals, maybe Skaven ridding on Chaos Warhounds?

    Bdrone wrote:
    Bladed Cog won't work with the ridgerunners, will it?


    Sadly no. GSC vehicles don't benefit from creed abilities (and even if they did, Bladed Cog specifically works on infantry) and Bladed Cog doesn't really offer anything to vehicles besides passengers ignoring move and fire penalties (which is only really useful for the Goliath Truck). If taking vehicles, I'd suggest looking at Hivecult, since their signature stratagem applies its effects to all Hivecult units (including vehicles) and their warlord trait only affects shooting to-hit rolls. The Jackal Alphus' +1 to hit effect against a marked target does work on GSC vehicles, so she can help make up for the move-and-fire penalty (though admittedly, Ridgerunners generally have sufficient range that they don't need to move much).

    Bdrone wrote:
    How effective is a bulk mining laser and bomb technique? I assume you need the right melee punch, which I figure would be acolytes and aberrants?


    The effectiveness depends a bit on the match-up. It brings a lot of multi-damage firepower but your anti-infantry capabilities are more limited (mostly mass S3 fire), so it will do well against an opponent with lots of multi-wound models and generally struggle against an opponent that is focusing more on single-wound or 2 wound infantry.

    The melee component provides a general-purpose damage source. Most GSC melee units have sufficient volume of attacks to deal with light targets effectively while also being able to force damage on tougher targets. Acolytes and Aberrants also have the option to bring high-strength weapons in their units, giving them even more flexibility in what they can destroy.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/25 04:10:43


    Post by: Bdrone


    yeah, i wagered rat ogres and such were far to big. i may just do a dodge on that one and treat the aberrants as an experiment that went right enough for use as muscle. put some warpstone shards in their backs if possible to drive the point home.

    as for the Jackals, that is a solid idea Strat_N8. best one so far anyway, and possibly reasonable to employ, depending on how skaven i make my forces in the end.

    hrm. as to the vehicles, ill keep the hivecult in mind, and the synergies with the alphus and cog with the trucks if used. seems like rigerunners may be just fine all on their own with a spotter alphus.

    as to the effectiveness on a more shooting list, i suppose that does add up. i was thinking a list primarily focused on the neophytes with acolytes for counterpunches and a bigger one of acolytes with flame bombing in mind. i do like the acolytes, especially with mining tools. the aberrants im wary on after the increase, but they can cause some serious harm it seems. still this picture of a ragtag set up, no matter how you do it, is very much interesting to me. definitely something that would take some practice to use.

    Thanks for any input sent my way, it's quite appreciated. im gonna keep putting this together as i can. I hope as more post CA comes in, we see how GSC develops. maybe something in PA for them as well.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/25 23:37:16


    Post by: Red Corsair


    On the subject of what units are cult creed affect. I recently played a few games with my brother testing out some vehicles using the cult creeds and oh boy does it make a bigger difference then you might think. We didn't use it on the genestealers just the GSC specific vehicles since it's pretty obvious they should at minimum gain the creeds. Ridge runners and rock grinders from bladed cog are actually quite useful and mobile with an accompanying alphus.

    I really hope they get a clue and fix this issue when psychic awakening rolls out for GSC, but I won't hold out too much hope since I am a chaos player as well, and they didn't fix that issue for them. It's such a strange thing for them to ignore and not patch.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/26 22:41:18


    Post by: r_squared


    I'm just starting out with GSC, and am building up a 1000pt list built around the models I have from a box set.
    I've only played a couple of games and am getting to grips with the complexities of the army. I'm looking at playing in a small 1000 point tournament in my local game club in the new year, in a marine heavy meta and I'd like to play with my cult.
    I've been playing Orks and AdMech for a while, and want to mix it up. Im finding that Aberrants, whilst effective are very expensive, and I've been running 4 armed emperor and some acolyte hybrids and saws and making the most of the deployment shenanigans but I'm finding the army very unforgiving, slip ups are rewarded with harsh punishment.
    I'm toying with rusted claw to help with survivability, but my instinct with this army is to go all out aggressive, rather than buff resilience.
    Any tips for a newbie to prevail with bolter heavy, marine shenanigans?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 11:56:12


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.
    55 Pts for a Primaris marine killer, you make him Bladed Cog for the additional attacks stratagems and to give him an (albeit not worth much by itself) invulnerable save of 6++.
    From this point onwards you can give him the following relics:

    1) Amulet of the Voidwyrm for a 55 pts characters that acts like a new Tyr Lictor with the added benefit of MAKING a charge 100% of the time with the 0 CP Perfect Ambush on him, denying overwatch to all units he declares a charge (and considering his base size I'd say 2 units won't be able to shoot overwatch again).

    2) Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah for a 3++ that in tandem with Unquestioning Loyalty and D3 Wounds restored from 1 CP stratagems makes him obnoxious as feth for measly 55 points.

    Opinions?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 12:47:42


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    scratch this


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 13:36:53


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    Bladed cog is my faction of choice. An abdominant with the mark of the ckawed omnisia and the born survior warlord trait kills guilliman and knights.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 15:19:15


    Post by: Madjob


    dreadlybrew wrote:
    Bladed cog is my faction of choice. An abdominant with the mark of the ckawed omnisia and the born survior warlord trait kills guilliman and knights.


    Very slowly, I would think. It's amazingly tanky but with 3 attacks on 4+ to hit, a lot of fight phases are going to end with just a single successful attack for 3-6 damage (or worse, no hits at all). Guilliman can probably still kill even a marked Abominant with his return fire, a Knight won't even be bracketed, will step out of the combat, and do what it wants on the following turn.

    Bad targets for that Abominant, he should be tying up stuff that doesn't want to be in CC or can't fall back with impunity. Much like most of the army, he's better off being built to maximize the effect of his initial arrival, though I personally still have a hard time justifying the CP for extra relics on him even then.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 15:51:16


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    You would be surprised. With a primus in range and overthrow the oppressors and a group of abberants around he is a monster.

    He can do it all on his own. Dont forget he has familar claw attacks too. They are dinky and everyone ignores them.

    Its foolish to assume that any gsc model is good alone. They all need the hero onion to rock out.

    If you want to clear out anything use overthrow the oppressors on pick and claw abberants within the range of an abdominant. If you have them augmented or buffed with might from beyond it only.takes 3 abberants to kill 8 to 10 guys.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 19:50:37


    Post by: Strat_N8


    r_squared wrote:I'm just starting out with GSC, and am building up a 1000pt list built around the models I have from a box set.
    I've only played a couple of games and am getting to grips with the complexities of the army. I'm looking at playing in a small 1000 point tournament in my local game club in the new year, in a marine heavy meta and I'd like to play with my cult.

    […]

    Any tips for a newbie to prevail with bolter heavy, marine shenanigans?


    Welcome!

    From my own experience, the main concern we have with the new marines is their Infiltrators and their deep strike denial bubbles. Our assault units can generally dispatch most Marine units without much trouble once they are able to get to grips with them (and we have tools to shut down overwatch and improve the reliability of charges) so your main concern is making sure that they have safe landing points.

    I would suggest looking at Bladed Cog over the Rusted Claw in a marine-heavy environment. The added AP from Doctrines shuts down the main benefit of Rusted Claw and, unless you are bringing Jackals, the rest of their toolbox isn't as deep. Bladed Cog is also one of the better creeds for Aberrants if you wish to use them (especially with their recent price hike).

    Could you provide a rough list of what models you have available?

    KurtAngle2 wrote:Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.


    I'd agree for the most part, though if you are looking specifically for a Primaris killer the Locus might be worth looking at as well (especially with Bladed Cog where they get a 4++). The Sanctus is, however, much better suited for hunting higher toughness infantry and monster models where they can leverage their fixed 2+ to wound and high volume of attacks to put damage through.

    Madjob wrote:
    Very slowly, I would think. It's amazingly tanky but with 3 attacks on 4+ to hit, a lot of fight phases are going to end with just a single successful attack for 3-6 damage (or worse, no hits at all). Guilliman can probably still kill even a marked Abominant with his return fire, a Knight won't even be bracketed, will step out of the combat, and do what it wants on the following turn.


    The tricky thing is factoring in his Chosen One ability. I have had more than few instances where I only scored 1-2 natural hits but because both were 6's I ended with 2-4 hits. I don't really use mine for hunting Lords of War anymore (that job is better left to Acolytes or Hammer-Aberrants), but he is good at wrecking more ordinary vehicles and monsters. He generally won't do it by himself, but he also is usually far cheaper than his target so it balances out.

    It is also worth noting that he does have a S6 rending claw if you are fighting ordinary infantry. No point in taking the -1 to hit against 1-wound models.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 20:52:09


    Post by: Madjob


     Strat_N8 wrote:


    Madjob wrote:
    Very slowly, I would think. It's amazingly tanky but with 3 attacks on 4+ to hit, a lot of fight phases are going to end with just a single successful attack for 3-6 damage (or worse, no hits at all). Guilliman can probably still kill even a marked Abominant with his return fire, a Knight won't even be bracketed, will step out of the combat, and do what it wants on the following turn.


    The tricky thing is factoring in his Chosen One ability. I have had more than few instances where I only scored 1-2 natural hits but because both were 6's I ended with 2-4 hits. I don't really use mine for hunting Lords of War anymore (that job is better left to Acolytes or Hammer-Aberrants), but he is good at wrecking more ordinary vehicles and monsters. He generally won't do it by himself, but he also is usually far cheaper than his target so it balances out.

    It is also worth noting that he does have a S6 rending claw if you are fighting ordinary infantry. No point in taking the -1 to hit against 1-wound models.



    Chosen one is extremely swingy on three attacks, you're talking about it triggering every 0.5 attacks per fight phase, mathematically. You can improve that with a Primus of course, but yea I would honestly just pretend it isn't even there when it comes to my expectations for its performance. As far as rending claws go, yes, nice to have the option to be more efficient against certain targets. Still only 3 attacks and we have two other light to medium infantry blender characters in the form of the Patriarch and Primus.

    I have been looking up and down for excuses to field the Abominant as it is my second favorite character model the army has, but that point increase and Hammer nerf from T&C to codex was just too heavy to reconcile.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/27 23:18:05


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Madjob wrote:

    Chosen one is extremely swingy on three attacks, you're talking about it triggering every 0.5 attacks per fight phase, mathematically.


    That's more or less what I was trying to get at. His attacks are rather susceptible to spiking beyond what statistics suggest he "should" get (bit like the Shock Attack Gun, if not quite as drastic) which makes his actual table performance is hard to predict. Some games when the dice are on fire he can smash everything he comes across, while in other games when the dice are more cold his offense suffers.

    When I bring mine I usually bring him for his durability and then allow myself to be pleasantly surprised when/if his dice spike against something. He still commands some respect from opponents (no one wants to risk him rolling well and flattening something important) while being tough enough to weather some abuse.

    Madjob wrote:

    I have been looking up and down for excuses to field the Abominant as it is my second favorite character model the army has, but that point increase and Hammer nerf from T&C to codex was just too heavy to reconcile.


    Try running him as Pauper Princes. Their relic has a very nice set of benefits and he is the toughest platform to lug it around to get the most out of it. The cult creed ability also goes a good way towards mitigating the to-hit penalty and gives extra chances to roll 6's. The Bladed Cog pseudo-smash captain is also nice and a configuration that I enjoy running, but he is more for use as an anvil than a hammer.

    If you happen to be bringing Aberrants (which is admittedly a big if at the current price point) he also allows different creeds to mimic the Four Armed Emperor ability through the Insidious Mindwyrm field commander trait, so you can use the tools in the other creeds that benefit Aberrants without loosing out on charge enhancement.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/28 14:38:33


    Post by: r_squared


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    r_squared wrote:I'm just starting out with GSC, and am building up a 1000pt list built around the models I have from a box set.
    I've only played a couple of games and am getting to grips with the complexities of the army. I'm looking at playing in a small 1000 point tournament in my local game club in the new year, in a marine heavy meta and I'd like to play with my cult.

    […]

    Any tips for a newbie to prevail with bolter heavy, marine shenanigans?


    Welcome!

    From my own experience, the main concern we have with the new marines is their Infiltrators and their deep strike denial bubbles. Our assault units can generally dispatch most Marine units without much trouble once they are able to get to grips with them (and we have tools to shut down overwatch and improve the reliability of charges) so your main concern is making sure that they have safe landing points.

    I would suggest looking at Bladed Cog over the Rusted Claw in a marine-heavy environment. The added AP from Doctrines shuts down the main benefit of Rusted Claw and, unless you are bringing Jackals, the rest of their toolbox isn't as deep. Bladed Cog is also one of the better creeds for Aberrants if you wish to use them (especially with their recent price hike).

    Could you provide a rough list of what models you have available?


    Thank you for the welcome, I've found them an interesting army to field, very different from both of my other armies in many ways, which is what I like.
    Basically my current army is based on the contents of the Death watch Overkill box with a few extra bits and pieces I've bought to be getting on with. I've realised that the army is very CP heavy, and relies on a lot of support from its many characters, their buffs and interactions so I've picked up a few of these in order to supplement what I have.
    I'm interested in the way that Aberrants are boosted by Bladed Cog, im guessing the exploding 6's strat? Anything else?
    I'd thought about painting my cult up in this way to tie in with the AdMech that I already own. Making a narrative that my cult are from one of my AdMech forge world's, not anything to do with the game, just a bit of head narrative for me.
    Current models are
    Patriarch
    Magus
    Primus
    4x Abberants
    12 Acolyte Hybrids
    12x Neophyte Hybrids, 2x grenade launcher, 2x mining laser
    I've supplemented them with chaos cultists to make complete squads and have a bunch of genestealers
    Stuff on the way,
    Iconward
    More Acolyte Hybrids
    Clamavus
    Sanctus
    More Aberrants
    Abominant
    Once my new stuff arrives, I was thinking of this list;
    Spoiler:
    1000pts
    Battalion Det
    cult of the 4 armed emperor
    Brood coven
    HQ
    Iconward icon of the cult ascendent
    Magus Familiar, Mass Hypnosis, Might from beyond, WT Inscrutable cunning
    Patriarch Familiar, Mental onslaught, Mind Control, WT Alien Majesty
    TROOPS
    Acolyte Hybrids, cult icon, 5x hybrids, 4x saw
    Neophyte Hybrids, grenade launcher
    Neophyte Hybrids, grenade launcher

    Vanguard Det
    Anointed throng, Grandsires gifts
    HQ
    Abominant, WT Insidious mindwyrm
    Primus, WT Shadow Stalker
    ELITE
    Aberrants, Hypermorph, HIW, 2x HPH, 3x Power pick
    Clamavus
    Sanctus The Gift from beyond.




    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/28 21:48:11


    Post by: Strat_N8


     r_squared wrote:

    I'm interested in the way that Aberrants are boosted by Bladed Cog, im guessing the exploding 6's strat? Anything else?


    They appreciate having an invulnerable save (even at a 6++) since it adds another defensive layer against high impact weapons. As discussed above, the Abominant also really likes the Bladed Cog's unique relic since it cranks up his durability

    Another thing is that Bladed Cog's trait encourages taking Neophytes with heavy weapons to fill its troops quota, so the elite melee options aren't competing with Acolytes as much for resources.

     r_squared wrote:

    Current models are
    Patriarch
    Magus
    Primus
    4x Abberants
    12 Acolyte Hybrids
    12x Neophyte Hybrids, 2x grenade launcher, 2x mining laser
    I've supplemented them with chaos cultists to make complete squads and have a bunch of genestealers
    Stuff on the way,
    Iconward
    More Acolyte Hybrids
    Clamavus
    Sanctus
    More Aberrants
    Abominant


    That's a pretty good start, though I think you might want to focus on bulking up your troops allotment. As you said, we do consume a lot of command points and your troops are the key to unlocking them (and regardless, our troops are pretty good overall). If you aren't planning to invest in vehicles you might also want to pick up some Atalan Jackals to use for your on-table presence. They are fast and fairly tough for their points. They make a good bodyguard unit for a footslogging Patriarch since they can keep up with him well and are a pain to shoot at.

    I do like the idea regarding linking your cult to your Admech. My own hybrids are painted to match my Tyranid army.


    Regarding your list, a couple thoughts:

    1. You probably don't need Four-Armed Emperor and the Anointed Throng and Clamavus. While the +3 to charges is appealing, I fear you might be getting diminishing returns since you are pooling a lot of resources into what will probably be a once a game effect at the current points bracket.

    2. Related to above, you have a lot of command points already spent before the game so I don't expect you will have enough to make use of A Plan Generation's In The Making (and if you do, you sacrifice ambush manipulation). With that in mind, you might want to play around with the Pauper Princes or Twisted Helix. Pauper Princes like most of what you have and can take advantage of your concentration of characters to trigger their signature stratagem, while Twisted Helix provides a generally useful strength buff and will give your Neophytes a bit of a speed boost.

    3. I'm a little worried about your overall model count, as you have a lot of "toys" and not that many "boys" to borrow the Orkish idiom. GSC is rather fragile and you only have 30 disposable bodies to protect the 14 important bodies. You might want to consider dropping the Hypermorph from the Aberrant squad and the Grenade Launchers from the Neophytes to scrounge up enough points for another squad of troops just to give you a few more bodies to work with.

    I hope those observations are useful to you.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/28 22:38:36


    Post by: r_squared


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    ...Regarding your list, a couple thoughts:

    1. You probably don't need Four-Armed Emperor and the Anointed Throng and Clamavus. While the +3 to charges is appealing, I fear you might be getting diminishing returns since you are pooling a lot of resources into what will probably be a once a game effect at the current points bracket.

    2. Related to above, you have a lot of command points already spent before the game so I don't expect you will have enough to make use of A Plan Generation's In The Making (and if you do, you sacrifice ambush manipulation). With that in mind, you might want to play around with the Pauper Princes or Twisted Helix. Pauper Princes like most of what you have and can take advantage of your concentration of characters to trigger their signature stratagem, while Twisted Helix provides a generally useful strength buff and will give your Neophytes a bit of a speed boost.

    3. I'm a little worried about your overall model count, as you have a lot of "toys" and not that many "boys" to borrow the Orkish idiom. GSC is rather fragile and you only have 30 disposable bodies to protect the 14 important bodies. You might want to consider dropping the Hypermorph from the Aberrant squad and the Grenade Launchers from the Neophytes to scrounge up enough points for another squad of troops just to give you a few more bodies to work with.

    I hope those observations are useful to you.


    They are very useful, thank you for taking the time for some pointers. It did feel a little "top heavy", I'll have another look at the list based on your suggestions and give it ago on the table.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/29 17:54:26


    Post by: r_squared


    So, what is going on with the Kelermorph?
    Very clearly in the codex and featuring in many GSC armies, but seemingly can only be purchased as part of the Kill Team boxed set which appears to not be stocked by GW?
    Am I missing something here?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2019/12/29 19:09:44


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Sadly you are correct in that he isn’t available at the moment. I think we will probably get him as a separate release when we get our Installment of Psychic Awakening. At the earliest that might be with The Saga of The Beast book, but it wouldn’t be too surprising if ours was after that (GSC tends to get pitted against AdMech and we know they have a plane and character release coming up).

    With that being said, it is fairly easy to convert your own. The Kelermorph is about the same size as the Primus (main difference being the pose) and the heavy weapon Neophyte's torso is about the same style. Just need some suitable pistols and a masked 3rd generation head.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/05 17:23:49


    Post by: Ferryman


    A question. I've played few games with GSC and most of the games ended with me being almost tabled. I'm thinking about adding some Tyranid allies for durability, never played nids before. Don't even own the codex yet but I'd like to know what bugs other people are using as allies.

    The core of my Cult army is pretty much this:

    12 Neophytes, shotguns & 2 flamers
    10 Neophytes, autoguns, grenade launchers & mining lasers
    15 Acolytes, 2 saws
    15 Acolytes, saw & icon

    10 Aberrants, 2 improvised, 3 hammers, 5 picks.

    Ridgerunner with ML

    These I have, trying to find the right mixture in 1000 to 1500pts games:

    Primus
    Magos
    Iconward
    Abominant
    Patriarch.

    Also have 16 purestrains, seem too expensive pointswise. And up to 60 Brood brothers but I'd rather save them for other games. They're part of my Savlar chem dogs project.

    So how would you build a list with these and what Tyranids would you add that have at least t4 and better than 5+ save? No pts limit or anything, just ideas.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/05 22:57:52


    Post by: Strat_N8


    My go-to ally detachment is generally either a Spearhead with Old One Eye and an assortment of Carnifexes (maybe a Malceptor or Hive Tyrant thrown in for synapse) or a battalion with the same core but some 'stealer broods and a Brood Lord added in. Carnifexes are fairly customizable to suit whatever gaps you need filled and are fairly inexpensive if you don't go crazy with the upgrades. Incidentally it is also a rather fluffy detachment if you are using the Behemoid Undercult color scheme.

    With the recent cost drops and new toys from Blood of Baal, I want to try the old Living Artillery Node (Exocrines, Biovores, and a block of Warriors to provide synapse). Plasma is one thing we are lacking in and Warriors with adaptations and their new -1 damage stratagem are fairly tough now.

    As a caveat, my general experience has been that when I mix my GSC and Tyranids the latter tends to be the larger force unless I am going heavy on GSC mech. Tyranids are even more reliant on threat saturation than we are to compensate for the fact they have to footslog for the most part and thus have to eat shooting every turn.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/07 21:06:01


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    The bladed cog abberants strat is bonkers good with a primus around.

    Technically you can use the overthrow the oppressors otto on any bladed cog unit. I've found it to be most effective on pick abberants and heavy improvised weapon abberants.

    The key here is that they get another attack. So you use the profile of the weapon. 3 5+ hits with aan abberant with a stop sign explode onto 6 more attacks.

    Heavy pick otto triggers extra free rending claw attacks which themselves can trigger otto attacks. It is amazing.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/08 12:54:56


    Post by: FatBoyNoSlim


    Its really interesting to see people move towards using Hivecult/Bladed Cog. I have been running my GSC as Hivecult since the beginning and have always sworn by battle bus Trucks and Ridgerunners

    To help counter the new marines I have been thinking about moving towards more mechanised Cult lists. Because Marines can push out our deepstrike to 12" and also Auspex Scan, my combat infantry units have been having a hard time. GSC have access to a few tasty shooty buffs such as the Jackel Alphus. Below is the list I am currently toying with.

    Detachment 1: Hivecult Battalion
    Magus, Hivelord Warlord Trait (reroll 1s in shooting for units in 6")
    Jackel Alphus
    10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
    10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
    10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
    Ridgerunner with Flare and Heavy Mining Laser
    Ridgerunner with Flare and Heavy Mining Laser
    Ridgerunner with Flare and Heavy Mining Laser
    Cult Leman Russ: Executioner Plasma Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolters
    Cult Leman Russ: Executioner Plasma Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolters
    Cult Leman Russ: Executioner Plasma Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolters

    Detachment 2: Hivecult Battalion
    Primus
    Jackel Alphus
    10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
    10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
    10x Neophytes with 1x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
    Rock Grinder: Clearance Incinerator
    Rock Grinder: Clearance Incinerator
    Rock Grinder: Clearance Incinerator

    My thinking behind this list is to form the army into 2 fire bases and distraction force. I would have the 3 trucks and the Ridgerunners in one fire base with a Jackal and the Warlord and have the other 3 trucks, Jackal and the Leman Russes in the other fire base. The Rock Grinders would go bang in the middle of the board with the Primus riding in the back of one, their job is to be a classic distraction Carnifex and just speed up the battle field and draw as much fire as possible before they die. Everyone I have ever faced when using my Rock Grinders has shot them first simply because they look intimating (this is both in casual play and at tournaments!)

    The Leman Russes also serve as a second layer of distraction. The Russ has a reputation across 40k as being a nasty unit and is a much more obvious target then a ridgerunner or truck. However, in reality the Cult Russ is a trap for the enemy. As they don't benefit from cult traits I actually don't mind if the enemy kills them. Because every shot that goes into the Russes is one that isn't targeting the real source of my firepower, which is the Trucks and Ridgerunners. Both of these units will be benefiting from +1 to hit from the Jackals, some of them will be getting rerolls from the Warlord and if I need to I can also pop the Hivecult Strat for another +1 to hit.

    Another reason I like this concept is its simple and doesn't rely on gimmicks. It does not rely on ambushing, but still takes advantage of blip deployment so I can push back units that want to turn 1 charge. I'm not at risk of people screening me out, which is traditional cults biggest problem. I still have good mobility with all the trucks too and plenty of CP and Obsec.

    What do people think? I am open to thoughts and criticism!



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/08 17:51:51


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    That's a pretty good trap, because 3 Russes will have a significant impact if left unattended

    I like it mate. Honestly though, I'd consider an allied Guard Supreme Command for triple tank commander, seems like it would work perfectly here.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/09 02:43:44


    Post by: Strat_N8


     FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

    What do people think? I am open to thoughts and criticism!


    One minor nitpick, but the Cult Russ can't take the Executioner as a turret mount unfortunately. It has to be the Battle Cannon, Vanquisher, Exterminator Autocannon, or Eradicator Nova Cannon.

    Ignoring that, I very much like that list and the logic behind it is sound. I've been doing something similar but with Ridgerunners replacing the Cult Russes (I have 6 in total) and a mix of Siesmic Cannons/Mining Lasers instead of Heavy Stubbers. How have the clearance incinerators been serving you? I've been somewhat tempted to retrofit my Rockgrinders with one of the cheaper weapons since the to-hit penalty isn't as problematic with Hivecult and the reduced cost makes them more disposable.

    Assuming you can find the points (admittedly a very big if), it might not hurt to add a unit or two of Jackals for screening and quick objective grabs (via Flare Launchers). I've had good results with them in my mechanized builds and they are cheap enough that they can take hits for the Alphus if needed.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/10 15:05:07


    Post by: Resipsa131


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.
    55 Pts for a Primaris marine killer, you make him Bladed Cog for the additional attacks stratagems and to give him an (albeit not worth much by itself) invulnerable save of 6++.
    From this point onwards you can give him the following relics:

    1) Amulet of the Voidwyrm for a 55 pts characters that acts like a new Tyr Lictor with the added benefit of MAKING a charge 100% of the time with the 0 CP Perfect Ambush on him, denying overwatch to all units he declares a charge (and considering his base size I'd say 2 units won't be able to shoot overwatch again).

    2) Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah for a 3++ that in tandem with Unquestioning Loyalty and D3 Wounds restored from 1 CP stratagems makes him obnoxious as feth for measly 55 points.

    Opinions?

    Ive been playing alot versus Primarus Marines
    1) I usually take Amulet of the Voidwyrm on my Patriarch, there's an opportunity cost there I'd probably take the Mark instead.
    2) If you are using APA on your Santus you arent using it on your rocksaws/abberrants
    3) If you load up on a Relic and use APA your Primarus opponent is going to Auspex Scan and kill him although Mathhammer suggests you'll survive with a 3++ against 20 Bs+4(-1 to hit) Bolter shots.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/10 16:43:15


    Post by: FatBoyNoSlim


    Resipsa131 wrote:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.
    55 Pts for a Primaris marine killer, you make him Bladed Cog for the additional attacks stratagems and to give him an (albeit not worth much by itself) invulnerable save of 6++.
    From this point onwards you can give him the following relics:

    1) Amulet of the Voidwyrm for a 55 pts characters that acts like a new Tyr Lictor with the added benefit of MAKING a charge 100% of the time with the 0 CP Perfect Ambush on him, denying overwatch to all units he declares a charge (and considering his base size I'd say 2 units won't be able to shoot overwatch again).

    2) Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah for a 3++ that in tandem with Unquestioning Loyalty and D3 Wounds restored from 1 CP stratagems makes him obnoxious as feth for measly 55 points.

    Opinions?

    Ive been playing alot versus Primarus Marines
    1) I usually take Amulet of the Voidwyrm on my Patriarch, there's an opportunity cost there I'd probably take the Mark instead.
    2) If you are using APA on your Santus you arent using it on your rocksaws/abberrants
    3) If you load up on a Relic and use APA your Primarus opponent is going to Auspex Scan and kill him although Mathhammer suggests you'll survive with a 3++ against 20 Bs+4(-1 to hit) Bolter shots.


    Could you not summon the sanctus with telepathic summons on T1, then use APA? That wouldnt be too CP intensive and would have a better chance of happening due to the lower power level.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/11 21:56:01


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Resipsa131 wrote:
    Ive been playing alot versus Primarus Marines
    1) I usually take Amulet of the Voidwyrm on my Patriarch, there's an opportunity cost there I'd probably take the Mark instead.
    2) If you are using APA on your Santus you arent using it on your rocksaws/abberrants
    3) If you load up on a Relic and use APA your Primarus opponent is going to Auspex Scan and kill him although Mathhammer suggests you'll survive with a 3++ against 20 Bs+4(-1 to hit) Bolter shots.


    You can probably get around #2 by having the Sanctus drop in one of the later turns (possibly have him hide in a corner and deploy via Return to Shadows if needed). At that point command points should be spent and there should also be more board space available to drop him in range of something you want torn up.

    The Auspex Scan is an issue, though I'm not sure if it allows models to bypass the character restrictions if another unit is closer. Could always drop a sacrificial unit behind the intended target with Lying in Wait and then drop the Sanctus.

    FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
    Could you not summon the sanctus with telepathic summons on T1, then use APA? That wouldnt be too CP intensive and would have a better chance of happening due to the lower power level.


    This could work, though a potential pitfall is that on the first turn most of the opponent's force should be relatively intact, so finding a good landing zone might be a challenge.

    Reminds me, I do want to test out an early pressure/alpha strike gimmick list at some point. Push up 3 units of 12 Jackals via Flare Launchers (20'' up + 12'' shotguns), 1 Acolyte or Neophyte unit from a Broodsurge Goliath (13-18'' move, 3'' disembark), and maybe 1 summoned unit (deepstrike). Just pin the foe in their own deployment zone (or engage early if they went first) and hopefully buy space for deep strike units to come on to finish the job.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/20 14:52:25


    Post by: Madjob


    So we are getting rules alongside DG and Tau in the next PA book. Assuming the usual format, what are some hopes from stratagems, relics, and warlord traits? Will we get custom army traits or not?

    I'd like to see some Brood Brother targeting stratagems, some stuff to help boost their shooting output on key turns.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/20 18:03:43


    Post by: Ordana


    Build your own cult traits are likely, but a decent chance they will be useless.
    Probably some stratagems that are way to niche.
    Probably some relics but GSC already has good ones.

    Basically I would expect nothing of importance and be pleasantly surprised when its actually useable.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/21 06:45:30


    Post by: Mellon


    I'd love to see something that enables other playstyles than melee rush. I don't think GW can make mechanised infantry playable in this edition of 40k, but that is top of my wish list.

    I do expect a couple of stratagems that will target units that have not sold much, like the rockgrinder and the ridgerunners.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/22 05:03:53


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Madjob wrote: Assuming the usual format, what are some hopes from stratagems, relics, and warlord traits? Will we get custom army traits or not?

    I'd like to see some Brood Brother targeting stratagems, some stuff to help boost their shooting output on key turns.


    I am fairly confident we will see custom traits, especially given that there are several "official" cults that do not presently have associated creeds and thus far each faction that has subfactions has gotten some form of them.

    The main thing I'd like to see is some additional tools that would allow us to get around deep strike denial. Between Marines and Alpha Legion it is very difficult to run a mass ambush style list. Most of the tournament lists I have seen lately have been more hybrid lists with a Tyranid component to push back the opponent and clear screens. A stratagem that allows a handful of ambush tokens to be set up outside of the deployment zone would be nice.

    Mellon wrote:I don't think GW can make mechanised infantry playable in this edition of 40k, but that is top of my wish list.


    The Orks have been experimenting with some mechanized builds lately from what I have seen and the Dark Eldar/Druhkari tend towards mechanized troops as well, so the concept as a whole isn't invalid. I think Hivecult mech has quite a bit of potential with the cost drop to Ridgerunners (they really like Chilling Efficiency), but the other creeds could certainly do with a bit of help to their motor pools.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/01/31 13:39:24


    Post by: D6Damager


    Mellon wrote:
    I'd love to see something that enables other playstyles than melee rush.




    Same. I feel like if you go Bladed Cog or Hivecult to try and shoot better that you're really just playing a worse version of Astra Militarum. We need our own thing or at least a better way to play combined shooting/melee. Instead of going 'all in' on one or the other.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/02 18:07:37


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Wanted to make sure you guys saw that there's a Start Collecting set and the Kelermorph going up for order next Saturday!
    Spoiler:

    Start Collecting is changed compared to the version in the book, no Goliath--you get a Ridgerunner instead.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/02 22:17:03


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Not bad! By my estimates that is around $150 USD so assuming the usual discount one basically gets the Ridgerunner for "free". Looks like it should be a good box, just about everything in it is something that one will want multiples of (in the case of Iconwards multiples are good to have for Apocalyse and can be converted to Acolyte leaders without much hassle if one doesn't play Apocalypse).

    On a tactics related note, I saw some reports from the LVO that suggested a good showing on the part of GSC with a bit of Tyranid allies to clear screens. I saw one troop-centric list and saw reference to another that was spamming Aberrants (have not been able to track down that particular list).

    I'll update the main post when they start previewing whatever we will be getting from the Greater Good book. Should be an exiting week!

     D6Damager wrote:

    Same. I feel like if you go Bladed Cog or Hivecult to try and shoot better that you're really just playing a worse version of Astra Militarum. We need our own thing or at least a better way to play combined shooting/melee. Instead of going 'all in' on one or the other.


    I'd say different more than worse. AM has easier access to rerolls and shenanigans for the infantry, but we can stack +1 to hit and have better deployment tricks. Also our primary <cult> fire support vehicle has open topped, so we don't loose offensive power by packing troops into transports (AM does). Druhkari are probably a better comparison.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/03 00:37:11


    Post by: Ordana


    Rock Liberty
    Spoiler:

    (Kraken)
    Broodlord
    Swarmlord
    20 stealers
    20 stealers
    3 rippers

    (mixed)
    Magus
    Patty
    10 BB
    10 BB
    10 BB

    (TH)
    Abominant
    Primus
    14 Acolytes with Flamers
    5 Acolytes
    5 Acolytes
    10 Aberrants with 2 IHW
    Biophagus
    Nexos


    Daren Jac
    Spoiler:

    Mixed Battalion
    RC Alphus
    4AE Broodcoven Magus
    3x5 4AE Acolytes
    Kelermorph
    5 RC Jackals with demo charges, shotguns and grenade launcher

    Twisted Helix Anointed Throng Battalion
    Patty
    Broodcoven Primus
    3x5 Acolytes
    10 pick Aberrants

    Leviathan Battalion
    Malanthrope
    Neuro
    24 termagants
    24 termagants
    25 termagants
    3x4 zoeys


    Micah Chapman
    Spoiler:

    (Kronos)
    Malanthrope
    Prime (Glands, Whip + bonesword, Toxin sacs)
    29 Hormoguants
    22 Termagants
    9 warriors (6x Bonesword + deathspiter, 3x Venomcannon)
    6 Hiveguard

    (Kronos)
    Flyrant (Glands, rending claws, toxin sacs, devourers, xenogenic acid)
    Tyrant (glands, Venom Cannon, Rending claws, Toxin sacs, Venomthorn Parasite)
    Swarmlord
    3 Rippers
    3 rippers
    3 rippers
    Exocrine
    Exocrine


    Cooper Waddell
    Spoiler:
    Kraken Battalion
    Broodlord
    Tervigon (Dermic Symbiosis)
    2x 30 termagants
    Rippers
    Lictor

    Kraken Battalion
    Malanthrope
    Swarmie
    2x19 Stealers
    Rippers
    3 tyrant guard

    4AE Deliverance Broodsurge Battalion
    Magus with familiar
    Primus
    5
    2x 5 acolytes with 4 rocksaws
    10 BBs

    That is all the 5-1 lists from the LVO.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/03 03:41:15


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Thanks for finding those. Interesting how the two lists that put more emphasis on GSC both feature a block of Aberrants in a Twisted Helix detachment despite the hefty points hike they took (I assume Monstrous Vigor for a 4+++ and fighting twice have something to do with it - the former makes up for AP while the latter doubles the value).

    Nifty to see the Abominant and Biophagus make an appearance as well. I'd be curious to see what they matched up against, as supposedly the hybrid lists were the only non-marine force to hit the 61% win rate.




    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/03 13:35:16


    Post by: D6Damager


    What is the point of doing a mixed battalion? Doesn't everything in the detachment have to be the same cult creed in order to receive the benefit of the creed?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/03 13:44:56


    Post by: Mellon


     D6Damager wrote:
    What is the point of doing a mixed battalion? Doesn't everything in the detachment have to be the same cult creed in order to receive the benefit of the creed?


    That's absolutely true. But you can take warlord traits and use stratagems for all the <cult> that are in your army. For example it might be worth having a single magus from Cult of the Four Armed Emperor, because they can take that awesome warlord trait and stratagem. Or rusted claw bikers.

    Also, quite a lot of our units doesn't get any cult creed at all, brood brothers for example. So you can easily fill the detachment with such.

    For example, a detachment like this can be added to almost any army. Because the cult creeds are the less important than the stratagems.

    Magus - C4AE (warlord trait through BroodCoven strat)
    Jackal Alphus - Rusted Claw

    Brood Brothers
    Brood Brothers
    Brood Brothers

    Biker unit with demo charges. - Rusted Claw


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/03 14:07:48


    Post by: Madjob


    Personally disappointed in that set, can't complain about getting a mix of neophytes and acolytes (was always worried they'd just do neophytes), but the hq choice and vehicle choice aren't interesting to me. It would have been brilliant to have a discounted source of Goliaths.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/04 15:28:24


    Post by: Kanluwen


    I put it up in the Psychic Awakening thread, but here you guys go from GW's Facebook:
    The Heart of the Creed
    1 Command Point

    Genestealer Cults Stratagem
    Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one <Cult> Primus model from your army. When that model is set up on the battlefield for the first time, you can select one additional enemy unit for that model's Meticulous Planner ability. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.


    They had an image, but I figure people might be workblocked and I don't want to copy/paste the image again.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/04 16:06:00


    Post by: Strat_N8


    That’s rather nifty, though keeping a Primus around long enough to go after a second target might be tricky and having to use the stratagem before the battle makes it a bit inflexible (would be great if it was after picking a target, since at that point one would know if a multi charge is possible to use both instances at once). I could see it being situationally good if the matchup is one where the opponent is likely to clump up and not as good against more spread out foes.

    Should I update the tactica as things are previewed or would it be better to wait until the book is out?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/04 16:18:10


    Post by: Kanluwen


    I'd say wait until the book is out and start a new thread then, but update it with the previews?

    I'm guessing tomorrow is the Genestealer Cult previews and we'll wrap out the week with Guard and Tempestus.

    I really don't know enough about GSC to say whether it's good or bad with regards to the tactical element. Can't you take one Primus per Detachment or something? Could it be worked by taking one Primus, holding them back with this stratagem active and then potentially popping them up with some killy bits later on?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/05 17:09:10


    Post by: Keramory


    First preview is up. I actually get to contribute for once!

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/05/the-greater-good-faction-focus-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-1/

    Basically Tyranid Book of Baal 2.0. We get:

    1. Mix and Match creeds. Pick 2 from list. Example given was bikers not getting move penalty to shooting and if grouped together, psykers reroll 1s on tests.

    2. Major creed psy powers. Example being Twisted Helix: Select enemy inf unit within 12. +1 to wounds if hitting with melee.

    3. Strats. Example: Pick Neos coming out of ambush. Autoguns get Assault 2. This one I don't really get the good out of this one. Run and gun after blipping? 40 shots is 40 shots I guess


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/05 18:18:40


    Post by: Madjob


    Keramory wrote:
    First preview is up. I actually get to contribute for once!

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/05/the-greater-good-faction-focus-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-1/

    Basically Tyranid Book of Baal 2.0. We get:

    1. Mix and Match creeds. Pick 2 from list. Example given was bikers not getting move penalty to shooting and if grouped together, psykers reroll 1s on tests.

    2. Major creed psy powers. Example being Twisted Helix: Select enemy inf unit within 12. +1 to wounds if hitting with melee.

    3. Strats. Example: Pick Neos coming out of ambush. Autoguns get Assault 2. This one I don't really get the good out of this one. Run and gun after blipping? 40 shots is 40 shots I guess


    Love that twisted helix power, basically none of the armies I play have had flat +1 to wound sources before. Twisted Helix acolytes will be a right terror for T4 anything.

    As far as the strat is concerned, gives your shooting neophyte unit that you want to deploy in cover that may be outside of rapid fire range of a good target a boost, but yea otherwise fairly useless.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/05 23:45:21


    Post by: Badablack


    That twisted helix spell on a unit of Broodsurge acolytes will shred anything, and they won’t even need drills. +2 to wound means their claws are -4ap on a 4+, and at Str 5 they’re wounding everything in the game on 3+ at worst.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 00:06:53


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 00:10:29


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

    Do you literally do anything other than whine about Tyranids/GSC?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 00:13:40


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

    Do you literally do anything other than whine about Tyranids/GSC?


    If you can get hyped about current GSC rules, you sir got a huge problem. Meanwhile AM and T'au get things that are completely on another level of power (with the former having a Stratagem that works on ALL Imperium Infantries while we should be excited about having Rapid Fire 2....ehm ASSAULT 2 lasgun when using Cult Ambush *sigh*).

    P.S. I'm still waiting for Blood Angels to be GUARANTEED TOP TIER btw


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 00:23:50


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Oh thanks for reminding me, you also cry about Blood Angels being garbage too.

    Well, at least you have your niche cut out.



    The rules aren't even released yet. The previews are always complete hit and miss. It's way too early to start whining.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Have we already forgotten the last time we started whining about GSC based off the previews? LOL


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 00:30:59


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    Oh thanks for reminding me, you also cry about Blood Angels being garbage too.

    Well, at least you have your niche cut out.



    The rules aren't even released yet. The previews are always complete hit and miss. It's way too early to start whining.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Have we already forgotten the last time we started whining about GSC based off the previews? LOL


    In fact monoBA is still a joke while in Marines soup they're fine but that doesn't mean that their niche has changed or their gameplay options have opened up, i.e. you still want to just ally them for specific melee duties and nothing more.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 00:43:40


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    this isn't a thread for discussing Blood Angels, but no, mono BA are neither a joke, and nor is that a measure of a factions strengths. Mono Knights was one of the weakest things in the game for example, while Knights themselves were considered the strongest faction in the game. This is a game of soup and BA add plenty to it. Anyway, please stop trying to make this about your grudge against me for saying BA aren't bad and back to the topic of GSC itself, because engaging with you on anything is a fruitless endeavor. We all know you're going to complain no matter what GSC get, so lets just skip past that and the rest of us interested in reading about genestealers TACTICS can do so.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 04:04:26


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Kanluwen wrote:I'd say wait until the book is out and start a new thread then, but update it with the previews?


    Oh, I meant should I update the tactica as previews leak out or wait to do it all at once when the book itself drops. I'm not sure if there are going to be enough changes to warrant a completely new thread (unlike the Grey Knights for example where the book fundamentally changed how they work) but if needed we could make a new one.

    Keramory wrote:First preview is up. I actually get to contribute for once!


    Thank you for the notification. If you don't mind my asking though, what do you mean by being able to contribute "for once"? The goal here is to foster discussion, so if you feel as though thoughts are unwelcome I'd be interested to know how the thread might be made more inviting.


    Reading the previews thus far, my initial thoughts:

    - Custom Creeds:

    I think the two previewed both have some promise, though I probably wouldn't use them together. I have had quite a bit of experience with Wolfquads as mining laser platforms under the Rusted Claw and they have generally performed quite well in that role, so being able to get the accuracy benefit along with something potentially better suited to the current meta is a win in my book. The second trait also looked to be fairly good, given it doesn't have as many restrictions as the Tyranid counterpart and most of our powers have fairly high casting values that appreciate a bit of added consistency. The main downside is that it only works on the Magus right now, but if we get another non-Patriarch psyker somewhere down the line it could have further utility.

    - Creed Powers

    The previewed power for the Twisted Helix tentatively looks as though it could be really good, especially if paired with First to Draw Blood from the Deliverance Broodsurge to double down on +1 to wound. Under the effects of both, Acolytes are hurting most infantry on a 2+ and are rending on a 4+ with their claws. The other melee units should be able to get good use out of the power as well, but anything with Rending Claws or high strength (S6+) will especially like it.


    - Stratagems

    Heart of the Creed: After having some time to put more thought into this, I think it could be quite good for a Hivecult Primus that is also taking the Hivelord warlord trait (likely via Broodcoven). At that point he provides rerolls both to hit and to wound against two key targets for the Hivecult gunline and can be redeployed to the front with Return to Shadows once those targets are down or (more likely) the guns are taken out. The main problem for the other creeds is that the timing window is such that you can't guarantee you will be able to benefit from the extra usage unless the opponent is clustered together in such a way that you can mark two targets that one intends to charge.

    Prepared Ambush: I see two potential uses for this. First, it specifies that it works on the turn in which the unit has set up via cult ambush so in theory a squad that deployed via ambush token should be a valid target. As such, this could be handy for the Four Armed Emperor or Twisted Helix creeds that can give Neophytes a bit of extra speed on the advance, then pop the stratagem so they can still fire. They lose out on heavy weapon shots, but all of the special weapons are assault typed innately so they will work fine. The other potential use is against small units of Infiltrators where you aren't allowed to drop in within rapid fire range at all and a few extra wounds might make the difference. Both cases are still rather niche (advance and shoot is probably the better of the two, since it gives a nice forward screen), but might be worth keeping in the back of ones mind.

    I'll remain cautiously optimistic to see what else the book might bring. If nothing else what has been previewed has been much better than what the Tyranids had in their previews (which admittedly is not a very high standard).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 09:07:37


    Post by: addnid


    If you guys think any of what was "leaked" is remotely good then you play with very gentle opponents.
    Call it for what it is, total garbage. it is no whining, it is simple basic analysis.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 09:49:34


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    addnid wrote:
    If you guys think any of what was "leaked" is remotely good then you play with very gentle opponents.
    Call it for what it is, total garbage. it is no whining, it is simple basic analysis.


    I literally laughed at the C4AE/Twisted Helix NEOPHYTES. No one use them in these creeds for an obvious reason


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 09:56:12


    Post by: tneva82


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

    Do you literally do anything other than whine about Tyranids/GSC?


    If you can get hyped about current GSC rules, you sir got a huge problem. Meanwhile AM and T'au get things that are completely on another level of power (with the former having a Stratagem that works on ALL Imperium Infantries while we should be excited about having Rapid Fire 2....ehm ASSAULT 2 lasgun when using Cult Ambush *sigh*).

    P.S. I'm still waiting for Blood Angels to be GUARANTEED TOP TIER btw


    I would wait for FAQ before losing my mind over that IG stratagem. Wouldn't be first time similar thing happened and got faq'ed away right away


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 10:13:20


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    addnid wrote:
    If you guys think any of what was "leaked" is remotely good then you play with very gentle opponents.
    Call it for what it is, total garbage. it is no whining, it is simple basic analysis.

    The Primus stratagem is definitely good. Usable in every build, no. Usable in builds that are currently doing well like Neophyte spam? Yes indeed.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 13:10:54


    Post by: D6Damager


     Badablack wrote:
    That twisted helix spell on a unit of Broodsurge acolytes will shred anything, and they won’t even need drills. +2 to wound means their claws are -4ap on a 4+, and at Str 5 they’re wounding everything in the game on 3+ at worst.


    The psychic power only works on enemy infantry; it does nothing against vehicles and monsters. So, you still need drills/saws.




    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 21:48:38


    Post by: Strat_N8


    @addnid and KurtAngle

    I suppose to clarify regarding my initial thoughts that you appear to be reacting to, said analysis is mostly through the prism of "what can this do". I'm fairly confident most people can decide on their own whether something is worth using or not, but it doesn't hurt to keep an open mind and consider what sorts of things one can do with the rules even if the end result is not worth the cost to do so.

    And as I said, I'd rather foster discussion than shut it down. Even if something isn't tournament viable, there is no harm in discussing it for discussion's sake.

     Nitro Zeus wrote:

    Usable in builds that are currently doing well like Neophyte spam? Yes indeed.


    Neophyte lists are somewhat in a holding pattern until the Chapter Approved FAQ drops. No one is going to pay 1100 points for 10 GEQ models.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/06 23:05:32


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    @addnid and KurtAngle

    I suppose to clarify regarding my initial thoughts that you appear to be reacting to, said analysis is mostly through the prism of "what can this do". I'm fairly confident most people can decide on their own whether something is worth using or not, but it doesn't hurt to keep an open mind and consider what sorts of things one can do with the rules even if the end result is not worth the cost to do so.

    And as I said, I'd rather foster discussion than shut it down. Even if something isn't tournament viable, there is no harm in discussing it for discussion's sake.

    Very well said.


     Strat_N8 wrote:
     Nitro Zeus wrote:

    Usable in builds that are currently doing well like Neophyte spam? Yes indeed.


    Neophyte lists are somewhat in a holding pattern until the Chapter Approved FAQ drops. No one is going to pay 1100 points for 10 GEQ models.

    No tournament is enforcing the '55 pt Neophyte' type. These tournaments are run by human beings they are not turning away someone over something so ridiculous, and this is shown by the results of every tournament since that release, people are just playing it as 5 pt Neophytes because is so clearly a typo.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/07 22:40:59


    Post by: mightymconeshot


    So got to say the cult Creed for magus is disappointing unless they allows us multiple per detachment. I like the biker one as you might be able to get a nice pair for an outrider detachment. The rest seems rather plain. Decent, but not that good. I really like the new hotshot pistol for scions and hope we end up with a similar one. It would be nice on an banner carrier somewhere to add just a little bit of offensive power to it.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 11:53:57


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    Cult Creeds

    Hunter's Instincts
    Until the end of the first battle round, add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for units with this Cult Creed

    Innate Fighters
    When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a model with this Cult Creed in a turn in which it made a charge move, was charged or performed a Heroic intervention, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

    Thralls of the Patriarch
    When a morale test is taken for a unit with this Cult Creed, halve the number of models that flee (rounding up).

    Seasoned Enforced
    Infantry models with this Cult Creed do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing with Heavy weapons.

    Agile Outriders
    Biker models with this Cult Creed do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons and do not suffer the panlty for Advancing and firing Assault Weapons.

    Armour-piercing Ammunition
    When resolving an attack made with an autopistol, autogun or heavy stubber by a model with this Cult Creed against a unit that is within half range, that weapon has an Armour Pentration characteristic of -1 for that attack.

    Munition Experts
    Add 1 to the Strenght characteristic of Grenade weapons models with this Cult Creed are equipped with.

    Unnatural Symbiosis
    Whena psychic test is taken for a <CULT> model with this Cult Creed and within 6" of another friendly <CULT> unit,you can reroll any or all dice rolls of 1

    Workers Arisen
    When resolving an attack made with a weapon from the Heavy Mining Weapons List by a model with this Cult Creed, you can reroll the Hit Roll.

    Devout Worshippers
    When a charge roll is made for a <CULT> unit with this Cult Creed whilst withing 3" of a friendly <CULT> Hybrid Metamorphs unit, you can reroll the dice. This Cult Creed cannot be selected together with Hunter's Instincts Cult Creed

    Poisoned Blades
    When resolving an attack made with a bonesword, a lash whip and bonesword or a cultist knife by a model with this Cult Creed, on an unmodified hit roll of 6 you can make one additional attack agains the same unit using the same weapon. This additional attack cannot generate another attack


    Stratagems

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem at the start of your Shooting phase. Select one Neophyte Hybrids unit from your army that was set up on the battlefield using the Cult Ambush ability in this battle round. Until the end of that phase, autoguns models in that unit are equipped with have a Type characteristic of Assault 2

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in your Charge Phase when a Goliath Rockgrinder unit from your army finishes a charge move. Select one enemy Infantry unit within 1" of that unit and roll a D6: on a 2+ the enemy unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.

    2 CP
    At the start of your Shooting phase, select one Jackal Alphus model form your army.Until the end of that phase, replace the model Priority Target Sighted ability with this rule:

    Vox Contact: At the start of your shooting phase select one enemy unit within 36" and visible to this model. Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made by a friendly <CULT> model against that unit whilst models unit is within 18" of this model, add 1 to Hit Roll (basically improves the current aura to 18" for 2 CP)

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in your Shooting phase when an Atalan Jackals unit from your army is chosen to shoot with.Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made with a Pistol or Assault weapon by a model in that unit against an enemy unit withing 12", you can reroll the wound roll.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in the Fight phase whne a Hybrid Metamorphs unit from your army is chosen to fight with. Until the end of that phase, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in that unit

    1 CP
    Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one Clavamus model from your army. The range of that model's Proclamator Hailer ability is increased by 3. The same model cannot be selected by this Stratagem more than once per battle.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one Abominant unit from your army. That unit's The Chosen One ability affects friendly <CULT> Aberrants units within 9" of that unit instead of within 6". You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in your Shooting phase. Select one Achilles Ridgerunners unit from your army.Until the end of the turn, when resolving an attack made with a heavy stubber model by a model in that unit. add 1 to the Hit and Wound rolls.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one <CULT> Magus unit from your army. That unit can attempt to manifest one additional Psychic power in your Psychic Phase. When a Psychic test is taken for that unit, Add 1 to the total for each other friendly <CULT> Psyker unit withing 3" (to a maximum of 3+) You can only use this stratagem once per battle

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in your Movement phase, when a Sanctus unit it chosen to move. Until the end of that phase, when that unit advances, add 6" to the Move characteristic until the end of the phase instead of making an Advance roll. In addition, until the end of the turn, that unit can be chosen to charge with even if it Advanced this turn.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in the Charge phase. Select one Acolyte Hybrid unit from your ramy. Until the end of the phase, the unit can be chosen to charge even if it advanced this turn.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in your opponent's Shooting phase, when a Goliath Rockgrinder or Goliath Truck unit from your army is chosen as the target of an attack made with a ranged weapon. Until the end of that phase, weapons with an Armour Penetration characteristic of -1 or -2 are treated as having an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0 when resolving an attack against that unit.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a <CULT> unit from your army is chosen to shoot with it. Until the end fo that phase, when resolving an attack made with a Clearance incinerator, heavy mining laser or heavy seismic cannon by a model in that unit, add 1 to the wound rolls.

    1 CP
    Use this stratagem befor ethe battle.Select one <CULT> Primus model from your army. when that model is setup up on the battleifeld for the first time, you can select one additional enemy unit for that model's Meticolous Planner ability. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.


    Psychic Powers

    C4AE WC 8
    Select one enemy Infantry unit within 18" of this Psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic Phase, halve the movement characteristic of models in that unit and halve any Advance or charge rolls madefor that unit (rounding up).

    Hive Cult WC 6
    Select one enemy unit within 18" and visible to this Psyker. Roll a D6 equal to the number of Hive Cult models from your army within 3" of that unit. For each roll of 6 that unit suffers 1 mortal wound

    Bladed Cog WC 6
    Select one BLADED COG unit within 12" of this Psyker. Until the next Psychic phase, that unit gets a 5+ FNP

    Rusted Claw WC 6
    Select one enemy vehicle unit within 18" of and visibile to this psyker. Until the end of the turn, when resolving an attack made with a weapon against that unit, improvde the Armour Penetration characteristic of that weapon by 1 for that attack.

    The Pauper Princes WC 7
    Select one PAUPER PRINCES unit from your army within 12" of this psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, when a model in that unit is destroyed, roll a D6 before removing that model from play. On a 4+ that model can either shoot with one of its ranged weapons as if it were your Shooting phase, or make one attack with one of its melee weapons as if it were the Fight Phase.

    Twisted Helix WC 6
    Select one enemy Infantry unit withing 12" of this Psyjer. Until the start of your next psychic Phase, when resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a Twisted Helix model from your army against that unit, add 1 to the wound roll.


    The errata is just the same thing we got from FAQs rewritten there to give the impression that GSC has got something worthwhile


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 16:04:34


    Post by: zamerion


    there is some interesting cults, as worker arisen + season enforced. Devout Worshippers to rerolls charges is interesting too.
    but I don't think they can shade the main cults and less with the new psychic powers..


    Metamorphs they are becoming really interesting...

    and unfortunately, the best of all these new rules have been the psychic powers ... that added to those we already had ... we will not be able to launch so many!!

    the twisted helix, and the rusted claw (It is for any unit, not just for other rusted claw ..) are my favorites.

    in general, I have the impression that it has been a bit poor update, and they could have taken advantage of the faqs to fix some problems.


    Do you see any really interesting combo?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 16:17:25


    Post by: addnid


    I will play neophytes rerollimg hits with mining lasers and ignoring moving penalty, in trucks which now that they have a slightly better chance of surviving (the ignore ap 1 and 2 strat is good but they could have made it « until end of game » no ? Or ignore ap 3 2 and 1).
    So I am happy for that (well until I try that out and end up doing what everyone does, ditching trucks and deepstriking the laser neophytes)

    My bikes will stay on the shelf though.

    Let’s be honest though, GW took a good old dump on gsc players. A few very good things (magus strat is ace) but no relics and no adaptations, and lots of useless garbage...


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 16:28:49


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    Anti armour seems pretty fun for a dakka build.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 20:44:01


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Man some of this is so bad is hilarious. +1 to charge and advance is already pretty meh, but then they have to go and make it unusable by limiting it to the first battle round. It's as if they bloat the game so much even they can't track all the restrictions like apparently the no reserves 1st battle round. Meanwhile Tau get to break the rule of three and take 6 commanders in an enclave list lol.

    I didn't expect much, since the entire framework for the book is terrible, but I also play Guard, and it's unreal how much busted shat they poured all over that faction when they didn't really need it.

    I honestly am waiting for 9th at this point. It's crazy to me how much of a 180 the last 6 months have taken on 8th. We are right back where we were at the end of 7th with all the busted overly lethal free rules and too man sources to track. On the bright side I am enjoying finishing up painting the army, which even if it gets scrubbed is by far one of the prettiest in the game


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 21:59:13


    Post by: Madjob


    Workers Arisen + Seasoned Enforcers isn't bad for a small, Neophyte shooting focused detachment.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/08 22:09:44


    Post by: Keramory


    Well I didnt have any expectations and I'm glad I didnt. Actually a little funny. First two I read:

    1. +to advance and charges. Which would be amazing. But its t1. So useless for deepstrike.
    2. Reroll hits of 1s. So the cult icon that half my units can take. Lol...

    Am excited for the hive powers though. Helix is sweet.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/09 03:27:37


    Post by: the_scotsman


    Edit: sorry, there is indeed a separate strat giving a boost to achilles heavy stubbers. Lol. Why.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Devout Worshippers+Innate Fighters and Seasoned Enforcers+Workers Arisen seem ok. Whether the hivecult is better than the latter is...debatable imo.

    I dont think the former outweighs the strengths of CTFAE though.

    Twisted Helix is a lot better after this imo, lots of advance and charge boosts and their power is one of the better ones.

    Achilles ridgerunner units dropping the +1 wound strat is great.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/09 05:08:23


    Post by: Madjob


    the_scotsman wrote:

    Devout Worshippers+Innate Fighters and Seasoned Enforcers+Workers Arisen seem ok. Whether the hivecult is better than the latter is...debatable imo.

    I dont think the former outweighs the strengths of CTFAE though.


    Run Metamorphs and a Clamavus in a vanguard detachment with that first combination, probably a Magus for the HQ.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/09 09:28:50


    Post by: zamerion


    shoot has been greatly improved, we can make bubbles of 6" with neophytes Seasoned Enforcers+Workers Arisen, + primus + atalan, for shooting 3+rerolling +1 to wound (only to an objective) and with rusted claw power an aditional -1 rend

    but, I don't think it's worth so much investment ..

    where is that aberrant unit with heavy mining weapons?



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/09 20:51:22


    Post by: Khorzain


    The Raking Fire strategem for Ridgerunners isn't terrible if you take them in a unit of 3 and have an Alphus buffing them, since they don't split into separate units.

    18 S4 hitting on 2 or 3's and wounding on 2/3's against T3/T4 — the lack of AP is a real turnoff though.

    With a little support, it might help clear a 5-man unit of Infiltrators turn 1, which would be nice. Taking a full unit also synergizes well with Overcharged Weaponry to give the 3-9 Mining Laser shots +1 to wound.

    If they're Hivecult, then Chilling Efficiency can boost the stubbers to hit on 2's and the lasers to hit on 2's or 3's if they moved.

    This strategem would be really nice if Ridgerunners ever get access to Cult Creeds, but I'll agree that at the moment, we probably have better stuff to spend the CP on.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/12 06:02:12


    Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


    I have been trying out my GSC army for a couple of games and it is has been going pretty bad. I know I am going to lose a bunch of games as I figure out what I am doing, but I wanted to get some ideas on some things.

    For my next game I am thinking about of Double Battalion plus an Outrider detachment all Rusted Claw for 1500 point games. I am going with 3 detachments to fit all my HQs as well as the CPs. I would go Brigade, but I don't have any heavy weapon squad models (mortars) yet. Anyways, here is the list.

    Battalion Detachment:
    HQ: Magus (1 familiar), Iconward
    Troop: Neophytes x10 (Heavy Stubber x2), Neophytes (Grenade Launcher x2), Neophytes (no special weapons)
    Elites: Kellermorph (Oppressor's Bane), Clamavus

    Battalion Detachment:
    HQ: Abominant (Amulet of the Voidwyrm), Magus (1 Familiar)
    Troop: Acolytes x5 (Bone Sword, Heavy Rock Saw x2, Icon) Acolytes x5 (Bone Sword, Hand Flamer x4), Acolytes x5 (Hand Flamer x4)
    Elites: Aberrants x5 (Improvised Weapon, Power Pick x4), Aberrants x5 (Power Hammer)

    Outrider Detachment:
    HQ: Jackal Alphus
    Fast Attack: Atalan Jackals x4 (Shotguns and Demo Charges), Atalan Jackals x4 (Shotguns and Demo Charges), Ridgerunner (Flares and Mining Laser)

    If I am right that is 14 CP, -1 CP for Grandsire's Gifts, I believe (been away from 40k for a while and super confused what is and isn't the rules anymore).

    A good portion of this list is dictated my the model collection which is still rather limited. Although, I do have most Characters (I just don't have the Sanctus). I have been holding back on putting my Patriarch in my army until the model is fully painted. So in the meantime, I am just making due without him.

    I play in a marine heavy meta. Lots of games against Dark Angels and Thousand Sons. The Thousand Sons are giving me much more trouble than anything else. My Cult Creed is practically worthless since most of their weapons are AP -2 (I am not the kinda of player to change my subfaction for more power though). Additionally, their teleport is tough since I have been going heavy on Deep Striking which leaves me vulnerable to not creating as much Deep Strike Denial as I would like as well as making me worry about early tabling before my Deep Strikers can even make it on the table. As it stands, I have been tabled turn 3 all my games.

    My previous plans have involved using the Kellermorph to snipe his Sorcerer, my bikes to blow up his Daemon Prince, Occult Terminators and/or Ahriman. I also wouldn't mind using Laying in Wait to unleash my Hand Flamer Acolytes on his Deep Strike denial/objective holding cultists (20 congo lined all along the back of his deployment zone). My Neopyhtes (which I am now starting to go without much special/heavy weapons) are my back line Deep Strike denial/objective holders. My Abominant and Power Pick Abberants (probably backed up with the Clamavus) are intended for one of the TS's two squads of 10 Rubrics. I also am going to go with two Magus units to hopefully cut down on the amount of spells the Thousand Sons. I don't have much of a plan for my Ridgerunner (try and blow up a one of the two Predators maybe?) nor the Acolytes.

    Even with all of this, I do kinda think that Thousand Sons are a hard counter to my army. Most of their weapons just have to wound to remove my models, while having a really good Save or an Invulnerable Save versus my attacks. There isn't a whole more that I am aware of to get charges off being 9" away which pretty much has to be the case either from Deep Strike or to avoid Warp Flamers.

    So any kinda of advise to maybe help the games be less of a blow out. I expect to lose every game with GSC, but I would like to play a game where picking/rolling a mission is more than a formality as I am going to have about 10% of my army at the start of Round 3.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/12 11:41:31


    Post by: Ordana


    Your trying to run a glass cannon army based on synergies with a random bunch of models against strong armies that are still good when they bring a random bunch of models.
    Your going to have a bad time and with your collection its unlikely to get much better.

    Neophytes without the tools that make them acceptable, Mining Lasers, are just more expensive worse guardsmen.

    5man Acolyte units are a joke. Your a glass cannon. You need to kill what you touch because your an expensive guardsman and any return attacks are going to demolish you.

    Aberrants, some deal. They have more damage then 5 Acolytes but even so its probably not enough most of the time. And the points increase in CA wasn't kind to them.

    You can't run 2 battalions with this so don't bother trying, consolidate the Acolytes into 1 unit and use a Vanguard for your Aberrants. Switch a Magus for a Primus, you want the combat buffs. Get your Patriarch ready asap. He is a combat monster and you also really want his fearless bubble. If you don't have mining lasers for your Neophytes consider just running them as Brood Brothers so your atleast saving some points. The loss of cult creed doesn't matter because the units as is are not a treat to the enemy anyway. He won't care if they are a little bit more survivable.
    The problem your having with 9" charges is why you so often see then in a 4AE detachment, having a 7" re-rollable charge (Clamavus + Iconward with Vigilus detachment) is pretty reliable.

    ps.
    Brigades are a trap, your wasting points trying to fill sub optimal slots (FA/HS). Just run 2 Battalions instead of stuff that is actually good.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/12 15:49:50


    Post by: Yarium


    You got a good assembly of stuff to tackle Marines there Saturmorn. Assuming that you don't have a lot else in your collection, my main suggestions would be this:

    Change both Battalions to Cult of the Cult of the 4 Armed Emperor.

    Doing so will increase your chance of getting into your opponent, and lets you save points by dropping the Clamavus, or keep it for even more likely charges. The Warlord Trait should also be crucial for you in starting the game with more command points. You'll also gain access to the counter-spell stratagem. Use this to counter things like half-damage on a Dreadnaught when fighting the Abominant, or Trans-Human Physiology in the same situation. The new PA book will help your two Magus' a LOT.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/12 20:16:05


    Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


    I should mention that my GSC army is a Kill Team that grew into an army so I have a lot of.. let's say eclectic weapons.

    @Ordana

    I know that Neophytes are mechanically worst brood brothers. Thinking about it, I could probably borrow the regular guardsmen from my IG Kill Team (the models don't look as nice though). Additionally, at the moment I only have two of each Neophyte heavy weapon (Kill Team's influence). For Codex Compliant marines, I found the Mining Lasers are great, but versus Thousand Sons there is a good chance they are going to bounce off their spell buffed Invul save when they do hit. I found the Seismic Cannon underperforming, but found the heavy stubber worked okay in a volume of fire sort of way. I do have a Start Collecting on the way and have been debating with going with more mining lasers or heavy stubbers. I am leaning toward heavy stubbers to both save points and have a few more weapons with more range than 24".

    I am also aware that minimum man Acolyte squads is probably a bad idea. Again, Kill Team has given me a pair of all the rock weapons and demo charges but left me with few regular cultists and currently only one icon Acolyte. I can pretty easily build two 10+ Acolyte squads, but that's about it. Again, the Start Collecting is probably going to net me a couple more rock saws and definitely a couple Icons (I plan on converting the Iconward into a regular Acolyte). At the same time, 1500 points burn fast even with GSC. I found in my last game CPs went fast and left me swingin' in the wind when I ran out. Granted, I was blowing through mostly to play with as many stratagems as I could to see how they work.

    Your assessment of the Abberants is spot on. They did the most work, but really weren't all that much. I kinda regret not picking of ten more when I could get them for less than $20.

    I suppose I can go back to a single Battalion with a Vanguard and Outrider detachment.

    Spoiler:

    HQ: Patriarch (Amulet of the Voidwyrm), Magus, Primius
    Troop: 20 Acolytes (2 Rock Saws, 2 Rock Drills, Bonesword some number of hand flamers), 10 Brood Brothers (2 Grenade Launchers), 20 Neophytes (2 Heavy Stubbers, 2 Grenade Launchers)

    Vanguard:
    HQ: Abominant
    ELITES: 5 Aberants (picks, improvised) 5 Aberrants (hammers), Clamavus, Kellermorph

    Outrider:
    HQ: Jackal Alphus
    Fast Attack: 5 Atalan Jackals (shotguns and demo charges), 5 Atalan Jackals (shotguns and demo charges), Ridgerunner (heavy mining laser and flares)

    That list still leaves me with a bit more than 50 points to do something with.


    @Yarium

    Very good advice. If I fine that my list is still woefully underpowered I can keep the outrider as Rusted Claw while switching the other two to Four-Armed Emperor. However, I really don't want to do that has it is pretty well established in my group that my models are Rusted Claw, painted closest to their colors, and I really like the lore best for them. Funny enough, I am not super concerned with Loyalist marines. My last game against the Dark Angels had me fighting pretty close to what my infantry heavy Primaris army would be sans the Dark Angel stuff like Azrael. I mostly just have to think how do I beat my own space marine army if it more heavily relied on its Chapter Master and Ancient. I do think I have the tools to accomplish that. I just need more practice with my GSC to better know how much force I need to apply where.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/13 01:01:01


    Post by: Yarium


    Well, if you can't can't your list, and you can't change your cult, you have to just use what you have better. And there's not much we can do with it over the internet - situations are too unique in real life. Bombs are good for killing vehicles, since it's okay if you sometimes roll bad, so not as good at killing Marines. If you can, get some Guard - Tank Commanders help a ton for providing some consistent firepower pressure.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/13 22:18:24


    Post by: grouchoben


    I've wanted to start a GSC army for an age, to be specific a mechanised force with some DS elements. Something like 6 goliaths, cog neophytes with mining lasers, a blob of 6 ridgerunners, and maybe 4AE acolytes jumping out and making 7" reroll charges after the Goliath has moved.

    This kind of build seems to have gotten a lot stronger now, with ridgerunners getting serious love, and being a great target for the new Cog 6++/5+++.

    What do you all think? Should I be sensible and save my money? Is a 12+ vehicle list a pipe dream?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/14 09:30:29


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    For curiosity, could you see a custom trait combination for an infantry list working that is:

    Armour piercing and seasoned enforcers?.

    How would you go about building a list to take maximum advantage of that.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/14 20:01:51


    Post by: Tyel


    On the last two posts.

    I don't think armour piercing is worth it. Or at least I'm not sure it is versus arisen miners or whatever the reroll mining weapons trait is called. Ap-1 is a nice buff. But you have to be in 12" with a basic autogun - and its still BS 4+, S3 base.

    To which the cry goes up - just DS them in. Okay, sure. But you have to have something starting on the table. Now you can potentially go with a Tyranid detachment to sort you out on this - and I can't really comment on that - but in a pure GSC I don't think there are great options if you are sticking meaningful volumes of Neophytes into DS.

    Its very one-dimensional, but the perk of Neophytes seems to be cheap(ish) mining lasers. You are paying 12 points while other people are paying 20 or 25 for anther 12" range. With ignoring the moving penalty, you have a respectable effective range.

    I also think you want two special weapons. Webbers are very cheap for the power boost, grenade launchers have a bit of utility. (There is probably maths showing krak grenades are a mugs game, but I think they can be useful even if I might favour webbers.)

    So once you do all that, your 10 neophytes only have 6 autoguns. Do you want the -1 AP on them, or the ability to reroll the hits on the lasers? (Or other heavy weapons, which are not terrible point for point). You probably want the rerolls. Or throw this all in, take bladed cog and get a 6++ save? With an Iconward a 6++/6+++ sequence is good at shrugging off effective firepower for a 5 point model.

    On the trucks. I sort of want Goliaths to be worth it, but I'm not sure they really are. 2 Autocannons and a heavy stubber is probably a fair amount of shooting for the points - but the penalty for moving is terrible with base BS4+.

    I've been thinking about a list with about 6 trucks+neophytes, plus 9 ridgerunners, and then either another couple of squads in trucks, or some acolyte blobs, a unit of Aberrants etc. (I think a sniper Sanctus is a bit of a non brainer take for instance.) Really though its hard to argue you wouldn't be better served with say 12 squads of neophytes rather than 6 in the trucks. Maybe ditch the ridgerunners too and just go with the Ork approach of "can you kill this many bodies".

    But if money is an issue with buying 12+ vehicles, its also an issue with buying hundreds of neophytes/acolytes.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/15 15:57:07


    Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


     grouchoben wrote:
    I've wanted to start a GSC army for an age, to be specific a mechanised force with some DS elements. Something like 6 goliaths, cog neophytes with mining lasers, a blob of 6 ridgerunners, and maybe 4AE acolytes jumping out and making 7" reroll charges after the Goliath has moved.

    This kind of build seems to have gotten a lot stronger now, with ridgerunners getting serious love, and being a great target for the new Cog 6++/5+++.

    What do you all think? Should I be sensible and save my money? Is a 12+ vehicle list a pipe dream?


    I keep mulling it over, and I keep coming up that a mechanized GSC army is still probably going to be a lesser mechanized Imperial Guard one. I have also toyed with the idea of having Goliath Trucks as mobile bunkers for mining laser and grenade launcher neophytes. In part that kinda helps solve my 'just survive until Round 2 issue' I am having. At the same time, even with Rugged Construction/Flares I don't know if they are going survive for very long as GSC vehicles aren't particularly tough and don't have the buffs that IG army could give them to make them a whole lot better.

    I am still working out the effectiveness of Ridgerunners. I only have the one at the moment with a second on the way (and probably a third in a few months). Funnily enough, I haven't found the speed all that useful, I am also a little concerned that this unit is going to see a nerf (I am bit paranoid about it being in SC selling good and getting changed) even if it is only okay. However, I do think at the moment it is a good amount of firepower and survivability for its cost. I am considering them more and more as part of my Round 1 survival plan.

    I have seen a fairly mechanized GSC army do well (like 4 trucks). However, it was on a very terrain dense table where it was difficult for the opposing player to get much more 1/3 to 1/2 their firepower on just about anything. Plus, the opponent (Space Marines) was running a heavily infantry/biker list with little heavy infantry/light armor weapons. I am still very much working out how to get Genestealer Cults working though. So I don't know if anything I said is all that accurate. In a few weeks time I hope to get in a game with a couple of trucks and ridgerunners, once I have the models built/painted) to get a better idea of what they can accomplish.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/18 01:20:35


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I picked up the Greater Good book yesterday and will be updating the main post with our new stuff over the next couple days as my schedule allows.

    Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:I have been trying out my GSC army for a couple of games and it is has been going pretty bad. I know I am going to lose a bunch of games as I figure out what I am doing, but I wanted to get some ideas on some things.


    To add on to what has already been mentioned, you have a lot of points tied up in characters relative to the total points available (about 1/3rd). The characters are quite good, but a lot of their effectiveness is tied into what units they enhance, so having fewer units limits how much good they can do for you. I know in your case it is more out of necessity given that is what you have, but I would suggest trimming back to just the bare minimum you need for the list and reinvesting those points into your other units (possibly add another squad or two).

    Also given that you are locked in with Rusted Claw, you may want to consider taking Wolfquads with Mining Lasers instead of running the Jackals as bomb squads. That would give you two extra heavy weapons on the table to support the Ridgerunner and free up some command points for your other ambushers (bombs are very CP costly to use).

    grouchoben wrote:I've wanted to start a GSC army for an age, to be specific a mechanized force with some DS elements. Something like 6 goliaths, cog neophytes with mining lasers, a blob of 6 ridgerunners, and maybe 4AE acolytes jumping out and making 7" reroll charges after the Goliath has moved.


    There was an interesting list on page 5 you might want to take a look at. They had 3 Ridgerunners and a clutch of Russes instead, but it had a similar design.

    I had considered doing something similar with Pauper Princes grunts in Hivecult vehicles, but when I double checked the unit entries I found out that vehicles are creed locked for what they can transport, so unfortunately one can't have 4AE troops inside a Bladed Cog vehicle or vice versa.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/18 14:50:15


    Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


     Strat_N8 wrote:


    Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:I have been trying out my GSC army for a couple of games and it is has been going pretty bad. I know I am going to lose a bunch of games as I figure out what I am doing, but I wanted to get some ideas on some things.


    To add on to what has already been mentioned, you have a lot of points tied up in characters relative to the total points available (about 1/3rd). The characters are quite good, but a lot of their effectiveness is tied into what units they enhance, so having fewer units limits how much good they can do for you. I know in your case it is more out of necessity given that is what you have, but I would suggest trimming back to just the bare minimum you need for the list and reinvesting those points into your other units (possibly add another squad or two).

    Also given that you are locked in with Rusted Claw, you may want to consider taking Wolfquads with Mining Lasers instead of running the Jackals as bomb squads. That would give you two extra heavy weapons on the table to support the Ridgerunner and free up some command points for your other ambushers (bombs are very CP costly to use).


    I have added more to my army since those initial posts. I am still probably lacking Neopytes and maybe even still Acolytes, but it isn't as bad now.

    I have a couple of Neophytes x10 (2 Mining Lasers, 2 Grenade Launchers), Acolytes x10 (Bonesword, 4 saws, Icon), and a up to a Acolyte x15 (Hand Flamers). Plus another 20 Neoplytes mostly with shotguns and non-laser, grenade launcher weapons and 5-10 acolytes with a random assortment of weapons. Not as optimized squads as the stuff in the first sentence, but still more bodies.

    I am also up to 15 Jackals and was already thinking of only making use of 1 demo charge bomb and having the other two be more like regular Fast Attack units. I also have two Ridgerunners also adding to the dramatically increased amount of lasers in my army. Lastly, I have picked up a couple Goliath Trucks. I honestly don't think two is enough to make them useful, but at the same time, my meta is actually kinda low on anti-tank, even lighter stuff like them. I mostly got them because I like the models and they would work great for Kill Team terrain. However, I do want to try using them as mobile bunkers for my mining laser and grenade launcher Neophytes and see if they also help me weather Round 1 better. I am thinking between the trucks, ridgerunners and maybe some bikers, I shouldn't have to worry about potentially being tabled before my deep strikers come in.

    When I get caught up on my painting (progress in the Spoiler) and my hobby fund recover, I probably will get another Start Collecting. I kinda want to finally start building Metamorphs, but I suspect I am still going to need more Acolytes. I think I am also going to want more bikers, but I want to play a few more games before making that call.

    All in all, I trying to go with bigger sized squads. My Patriarch is mostly painted so it can be added to my playable army now. The unfortunate thing is I think my group is moving back up to 2000 points.

    Spoiler:


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/25 01:06:27


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

    Plus another 20 Neoplytes mostly with shotguns and non-laser, grenade launcher weapons and 5-10 acolytes with a random assortment of weapons. Not as optimized squads as the stuff in the first sentence, but still more bodies.


    Shotgun Neophytes are actually rather nice as a bodyguard squad for a Kelermorph. They don't need special or heavy weapons so they can be run cheap and they like ambushing to start closer to the opponent to trigger S4 shots. The assault type is also situationally useful. I have won a few games where a squad was able to advance onto an objective and kill just enough models in the subsequent shooting phase to claim it.


     Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

    Lastly, I have picked up a couple Goliath Trucks. I honestly don't think two is enough to make them useful, but at the same time, my meta is actually kinda low on anti-tank, even lighter stuff like them. I mostly got them because I like the models and they would work great for Kill Team terrain. However, I do want to try using them as mobile bunkers for my mining laser and grenade launcher Neophytes and see if they also help me weather Round 1 better. I am thinking between the trucks, ridgerunners and maybe some bikers, I shouldn't have to worry about potentially being tabled before my deep strikers come in.


    I think between the Ridgerunners and the Rockgrinder you should have enough hulls to at least hold the table down until your ambushers arrive. Having the bikes also helps, since they help draw away some of the mid-strength shooting that might otherwise be directed at the lighter vehicles.

    As a tidbit regarding using the Goliaths as mobile bunkers, remember that the wording on Open Topped is such that the +1 to hit from an Alphus indirectly benefits any Neophytes riding inside as well (since they are affected by any + or - modifiers that are affecting the Truck).

     Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

    I kinda want to finally start building Metamorphs, but I suspect I am still going to need more Acolytes. I think I am also going to want more bikers, but I want to play a few more games before making that call.


    I'd be inclined to agree, it would give you a bit more build freedom for filling out troops. It isn't a bad idea from the perspective of eventually building Metamorphs either. My biggest complaint with the kit is that they only give duplicates of Metamorph Talons (Lictor-looking one and Warrior-looking one) and the rest are singles which makes building a coherent squad rough if you don't have spares left over from building the kit as Acolyte hybrids.


    Also nice picture! I like the desaturated pallet you used for your flesh tones on your hybrids.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/25 16:37:39


    Post by: addnid


    So I tried a nid force based on warriors and zoathropes (leviathan for max durability) and a batallion with 6*10 neophyte squads with mining lasers and the traits Workers Arisen + Seasoned Enforcers.
    Last sunday against a very comp CW maxed out council on bike + maxed out spears + 3 CHs + rangers and the usual characters.

    Honestly bladed cog will do more for staying power, and that type of list can only win on objectives so...

    I think it is a trop, because you gain a little lascan hits to lose on what really matters ATM

    I think bladed cog neo spam with one or two 20 stron aco squads is the way to go currently, with or without a kronos spearhead (hive guards, exo and biovores).

    To sum things up, bring 150 models at the least, or die trying something else


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/02/26 17:56:25


    Post by: Strat_N8


    I kinda think that pair of traits would probably work better with Seismic Cannons than the Mining Lasers. More dice gives more opportunities for rerolls and the close range profile is better suited for dealing with MEQ models. I'm currently thinking that the custom creeds are probably going to be limited to small support detachments (such as an Armor Piercing Ammo detachment or Devoted Worshipers vanguard detachment) to cover certain niches that the main creeds can't do. Allies are probably going to be better off with one of the mainline creeds due to the overall deeper toolbox that they offer.

    I'm not sure if I agree that swarm lists are the best way to run GSC at the moment. Most of my experience with them have had issues with how relatively static such lists are and you don't have much ability to dictate engagements because of it. The current meta also has a more balanced distribution of anti-armor and anti-infantry (or in some cases even a slant towards anti-infantry) so you aren't getting as much efficiency from a swarm of 1-wound models as in the past.

    Not to say that the proposed Bladed Cog build isn't a good one, just I'd caution against calling it the only viable build.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/01 20:05:35


    Post by: Ferryman


    After few games of total rubbish and inevitable tablings I finally started to get a grip of the cult. Army full of special rules and buffs etc wasn't excatly a pleasure to play while recovering from a stroke.

    I lost interest in matched play so yesterday we played Blitz narrative mission. Following worked okayish:

    Double battalion, Bladed Cog.

    Primus, magos, abominant, iconward

    10xneophyte, 2 mining laser, 2gl. 16xneophyte, 2 flamers, shotguns
    15xacolytes,icon, saw. 15xacolyte, 2 saws.
    3x10 Brood brothers. 1gl.

    Kelermorph, 5 pick aberrants,hypermorph w hi, clamavus, 8 purestrain.
    Ridgerunner w.ml, chimera w. Bolter,flamer,stubber.
    Hws w. Ml,lascannon,h.bolter.

    My idea was to give my opponent (Sisters & Grey Knights) too much bodies to kill and sustained assault guaranteed some degree of recycling. But in normal game this list would've seen me almost tabled again. I hate painting larger vehicles so guess I'm gonna buy more ridgerunners, some atalans and more neophytes. And stick to narrative, avoid losing in rules jungle called matched play.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/05 00:16:16


    Post by: Da-Rock


    Ferryman wrote:
    After few games of total rubbish and inevitable tablings I finally started to get a grip of the cult. Army full of special rules and buffs etc wasn't exactly a pleasure to play while recovering from a stroke.


    I understand this a lot. After 3 brain surgeries I started playing table top games. It was major tough to play any army that was complicated, but my doctor actually recommended playing games like 40k as part of my rehab!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/05 23:11:14


    Post by: Tyel


    Its possibly heresy most foul, but looking at theoretical GSC lists I feel a lot of people are stuck trying to make units function which don't work.
    Money/time/painting limitations - but I'd like to try something like this:

    Alphus 1
    Ridgerunners 3
    Ridgerunners 3
    Ridgerunners 3

    Icon Ward 1
    Alphus 1
    Acolytes 20
    Acolytes 20
    Acolytes 20

    Icon Ward 1
    Alphus 1
    Acolytes 20
    Acolytes 20
    Acolytes 20
    Clamavus 1
    Sanctus 1

    With upgrades this can get you to 2000 points.

    Or swap out one unit of acolytes, upgrade two to Metamorphs, and take 3 units of Neophytes or Broodbrothers to complete the second batallion. Then mess about with item upgrades to taste.

    My basic theory (tl/dr) is that most stuff we have is overcosted and everyone sort of knows this, but a lot of lists seem to try and just shrug it off.

    1. The Patriarch isn't worth it. You can tune him up with attacking warlord traits and relics, but really he's just a bit meh versus so many tougher targets - be it because they have multiple wounds, or invuls, or rerolling 5s to wound often fails. The fact he buffs Genestealers, a unit you are never taking, also feels like wasted points. A flying Tzeentch Deamon Prince costs 70 points more - but I feel you get so much more on the table for it.
    2. The Magus is massively overcosted given a Primaris Psyker is 46 points. There is no way you are worth more than about 55-60. Arguably spending an extra CP to get 2 spell casts maybe makes 1 okay, but... eh. I feel psychic is one of these things where you have quite a bit, or nothing.
    3. A single Primus might be worthwhile but... eh. Its a lot of points for a buffbot that is probably helping one or two critical charge. I feel GSC is all about charges connecting, not generating massive overkill when you get there. If things go badly he never overperforms.
    4. Super super gross heresy - but I'm not sure Aberrants are worth it at their higher cost. They are certainly powerful (especially when buffed up) - but I feel the return you need from them introduces a high failure rate. If you can't wrap and trap they will also tend to just get shot off the table by most competitive armies. The Biophagus just represents throwing more points at this risk without doing anything to mitigate it. (In the grand scheme its not that many points but...)
    I see a lot of people go 10 Abs+abominant+primus+clamavus+Patriach for about 570~ points and you really need that to click to justify the expense. If you kill an expensive knight okay - but too often you will just massively overkill a few hundred points and then get shot off the table. Imo anyway.
    5. This goes double for the Abominant, who I think is too weak on his own base stats. Its a great buff, and on his own he has high potential but also a high failure rate.
    6. The Kelermorph is conceptually cool, but very rarely pays his own way once opponents know he can appear. I think lots of snipers perform better - and its harder for your opponent to deal with (beyond their own sniping actions).

    It might be worth ditching the Ridgerunners, but I think the massed mining lasers provide a bit of utility over just spamming acolytes and metamorphs everywhere. Mainly because acolytes sitting on the table at the outset seem a bit bad - although there is a potential opportunity for a turn 1 charge for one unit now if you roll well. Neophytes are the obvious alternative - along with maybe some mortar blobs even at their higher points because non-LOS shooting is useful. Not sure though.

    But yeah - basically I think the list needs to be all boyz and no toyz, sort of how most Ork lists have evolved. The problem is buying 100+ Acolytes seems like a crazy thing to do when they come in boxes of 5. Getting 40 together has been hard. Not sure what other people are thinking.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/06 02:39:25


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Tyel wrote:

    The Patriarch isn't worth it. You can tune him up with attacking warlord traits and relics, but really he's just a bit meh versus so many tougher targets - be it because they have multiple wounds, or invuls, or rerolling 5s to wound often fails. The fact he buffs Genestealers, a unit you are never taking, also feels like wasted points. A flying Tzeentch Deamon Prince costs 70 points more - but I feel you get so much more on the table for it.


    I suppose as a counter point, I don't think most people are using Patriarchs for can opening so much as (heavy) infantry shredding on a fairly mobile platform. They do consistently perform against most infantry targets between their innate accuracy, volume of attacks (for a single model) and rerolls to wound. His average threat range is fairly similar (12'' vs 8 + D6) if you discount Warp Time for double moving (though to be fair, the Patriarch can drop in via Ambush - Princes can't as far as I recall).

    Moral immunity and counter charge potential are also helpful for Neophyte and Jackal heavy builds as well.

    Tyel wrote:

    2. The Magus is massively overcosted given a Primaris Psyker is 46 points. There is no way you are worth more than about 55-60. Arguably spending an extra CP to get 2 spell casts maybe makes 1 okay, but... eh. I feel psychic is one of these things where you have quite a bit, or nothing.


    I'd be inclined to agree that the Magus should probably come down a bit, but I think he can be justified in lists by virtue of how important Mass Hypnosis is to have on hand against certain units and some of the new Creed powers are fairly strong too. I have also found his Spiritual Leader bubble is fairly helpful in the Grey Knight and Thousand Suns matchups where many powers are offensive in nature. He generally gets 1-2 extra deny attempts per turn in those match-ups whenever I have brought him.

    Tyel wrote:

    4. Super super gross heresy - but I'm not sure Aberrants are worth it at their higher cost. They are certainly powerful (especially when buffed up) - but I feel the return you need from them introduces a high failure rate. If you can't wrap and trap they will also tend to just get shot off the table by most competitive armies. The Biophagus just represents throwing more points at this risk without doing anything to mitigate it. (In the grand scheme its not that many points but...)


    Post chapter-approved I think this is fairly accurate, unfortunately.

    Tyel wrote:

    6. The Kelermorph is conceptually cool, but very rarely pays his own way once opponents know he can appear. I think lots of snipers perform better - and its harder for your opponent to deal with (beyond their own sniping actions).


    Same as above. I think he was good in certain matchups at his old cost but he is too pricy now.

    Tyel wrote:

    It might be worth ditching the Ridgerunners, but I think the massed mining lasers provide a bit of utility over just spamming acolytes and metamorphs everywhere. Mainly because acolytes sitting on the table at the outset seem a bit bad - although there is a potential opportunity for a turn 1 charge for one unit now if you roll well. Neophytes are the obvious alternative - along with maybe some mortar blobs even at their higher points because non-LOS shooting is useful. Not sure though.


    I don't know. Since chapter approved dropped I've been including one squadron of 3 in all of my lists (even otherwise foot/ambush heavy lists like yours) and they have consistently been one of my best performing units. Squadrons have enough stubber shots to thin out hordes while having enough mining laser shots to threaten vehicles and heavy infantry effectively.

    As far as your list goes, I see what your thought processes are and while I like the idea I'm not sure how well it will do. From what I have seen competitively, the Orks are only generally bringing 1-2 large mobs of Boys for deep-striking and the rest of their troops are filled out with cheap Grots. Admittedly, your list has the advantage in that you have multiple feel no pain nodes, higher speed (especially with Twisted Helix), and arguably better fire support than Orks have access to.

    On a related tangent, I'm curious if including a single Heavy Rock Cutter in Acolyte squads might not be a bad idea. In my meta I've been seeing an uptick in monstrous creatures and 3+ wound infantry, which is where the Rock Cutters start to look more appealing than Rock Saws (good odds of 1-shotting a model per wound instead of needed 2 wounds).

    Also I will endeavor to get the main post fully updated tomorrow. I've been busy with midterms and haven't had much free time as a result.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/06 07:06:15


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Magus and Patriarch are the two best models in the dex. They are the first two inclusions in any GSC list. There is no reason not to.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/06 11:09:43


    Post by: Ordana


    1) your misunderstanding the importance of the Patriarch. He isn't primarily there to be a combat monster. He is a fearless bubble first and foremost that is additionally ok in combat and can cast powers (which GSC has 2 very good ones that you want to cast pretty much every turn after the first (Mass Hypnosis and Might from Beyond).
    Without Patriarchs your 20 man units are almost twice as easy to remove since I can kill 10 out of 20 and Moral will take out enough extra models that the unit is neutered.

    2)I agree the Magus is to expensive for what he does and should come down ~20 points. Think GW values his deny aura for some reason when its mostly pointless unless your playing against GK's.

    3)Plenty of tough units around, especially with marines resurgent, that I don't think going to 2+ rr1 from 3+ rr1 is overkill. And that is before you count in the wound re-roll to take out a big threat. Considering the amount of HQs your bringing in a GSC list there is room for him.

    4&5)not heresy at all. Since the point increase in CA lots of people have dropping their Abberants and many were not a fan of Abominants to begin with. I think his only real place was in a Pauper Prince list where he could get 3++

    6)again especially since CA yes he isn't worth it. Outside of perhaps a Neophyte spam list where he can give a rr1. But then why are you playing GSC instead of an actual shooting army.

    As for your list, this is basically my argument for Primus. You have 3 Alphus. You have no need for 3. For the cost of 1 Acolyte you get the force multiplication of a Primus.
    For a couple of Acolytes you get a Patriarch and the fearless bubble.
    Mass snipers isn't that amazing with what your giving up for them, they simply don't threaten non-GEQ characters enough.
    Also there is the issue of space on the board for 120 Acolytes, I would expect you run into problems of finding room for them where you want to strike.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/06 21:35:29


    Post by: Tyel


    I find this forum doesn't do quoting well - but thanks for the responses all.

    I'm interested in how much people value the Patriarch for the fearless bubble. I'll admit this is something I had discounted. I just find acolytes die so easily they usually get wiped, while you can break out auto-pass morale if they do say leave 10 alive. I guess the argument is that you can end up with just a few left (potentially holding rock saws) but then I think they are too vulnerable to overwatch to do much good. I've not found that the sort of "kill 10 in multiple units" has really come up. This might just be me though. I'm sort of thinking you could bring that morale immunity, or have a whole extra squad of acolytes there instead.

    Really though this is probably inaccurate - because its the Patriach versus another HQ choice. So really its only 55 points - but thats still quite a bit.

    On the melee abilities, I just have found it a bit lacklustre. Yes he eats chaff - but killing 35~ points for 125 is no great achievement. Against monsters/vehicles he can easily fail to do very much. Against characters with solid invuls he's temperamental - and this unfortunately goes for basic (Ironhand) Marines who get multiple chances to dilute the damage. Say he kills three intercessors - its nice, but nothing spectacular for the points and he risks just being killed next turn for quite a chunk of points.

    The psychic point (sort of including the Magus) is reasonable, but I'm still not totally convinced.

    So with mass hypnosis - yes, its powerful. But if you use it on a unit you are going to charge and hopefully destroy, is it worth the points versus just having more bodies? Okay you ignore overwatch - but if you could have just had another 10-20 acolytes on hand does that matter? The hypnotised unit shouldn't hit back because they are dead. I guess the argument is you use this on the counter-charging unit you couldn't connect with this turn. I can't really disagree there, its potentially a massive swing. I can see the argument that for 10 points over an Alphus this makes a magus a better choice, even if the model is overcosted in itself (although the stratagem exists).

    On the other hand I'm not so sure on might from beyond. The concentration of damage is undoubtedly nice and useful but the other way to have more attacks is just to have more guys by saving points. Which also in turn means more stuff your opponent has to kill. The extra strength is an odd one - as there are multiple ways to get strength through the codex. Making Acolytes S5 is a solid boost against most armies (in one way or another) so I tend to think Twisted Helix is the way to go. But you could get it from this and the relic banner, maybe allowing for 4 armed emperor. But some of your units are going to be base S4 in that scenario, which feels suboptimal.

    Basically I guess I'm trying to explore if doing something other than the near auto-take broodcoven is rational. Arguably it isn't. I mean I've taken 3 Alphus partly because I love the model, but really its not all that good. I have to consider that I'm only saving 70 points on the broodcoven. Arguably the Alphus is overcosted itself - if she could be down to say 50 points I'm not convinced people would be screaming overpowered, given she has about the same offensive potential as a 21 point eliminator. At the same time a bit like psychic I feel sniping is something that adds up if you have enough - even on tough characters. The ability to throw something on pyskers who end up on 1 wound after the Sanctus shoots them for instance is useful. With 4 (potentially 5 in turn one) sniper shots, you are reasonably likely to get a mortal and one of them through a turn, chipping away at even tougher characters.

    So I'm not as convinced as I was on those HQs - but eh.

    Also agree that putting 120 acolytes down is likely to be difficult on the table. I was sort of looking at things like Jeff Poole's LVO list - which has 115 boyz, 50 grots, 15 tankbustas and a load of characters. I feel its very much a "can you kill this many bodies before you get swamped" - which is the same aim here. Potentially though they get more utility from weird boyz, shokk attack guns and tankbustas than I would from those characters and the ridgerunners.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/06 21:56:32


    Post by: Ordana


    I don't think Twisted Helix is something you can do with a list like what your considering. You have to many units coming in at the same time for Perfect Ambush to cover it so your depending on 9" charges and then you 'need' the +2 from Clamavus + 4AE and the Broodsurge Deliverance iconward trait to make them reliable.

    Failing charges as GSC is a very fast way to lose games.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/07 00:04:58


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Patriarch is the best caster in the dex. For starters his powers are basically free since the rest of his gak already covers his cost. Secondly he’s the LD10, or even 11,12 if you want it, caster for Mental Onslaught - something that can just have silly amounts of impact and you should be always trying to roll the dice on. Thirdly, he’s a great holder for the Crouchling since he has some form of resiliency and doesn’t just get sniped off the table without a serious commitment to doing so. And of course, he’s mobile so you can get your Mind Control where it’s needed.

    I put Mass Hypnosis on the Magus. I often don’t even bother wth Might, I’ll prefer a second Mind Control holder lol.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/07 20:41:04


    Post by: Tyel


     Ordana wrote:
    I don't think Twisted Helix is something you can do with a list like what your considering. You have to many units coming in at the same time for Perfect Ambush to cover it so your depending on 9" charges and then you 'need' the +2 from Clamavus + 4AE and the Broodsurge Deliverance iconward trait to make them reliable.

    Failing charges as GSC is a very fast way to lose games.


    I've tended to agree - so I'm really just trying to explore alternatives.

    7" charge with rerolls has about an 83% chance to go off, compared with only a 66% chance on a rerolling 8" charge.
    Which put another way means a 57% chance to make 3 successful charges, rather than about 29%.

    On the other hand, being S5 base is a good buff versus T4, T5 and T8, which is a reasonable range of targets on a lot of tables.

    I don't think you can expect to ever get more than 3 units in range of a single clamavus and the Iconward with +1 S banner and reroll charge warlord trait. Terrain and opponent deployment depending - but unless they are really castled up, or you engage in imaginative conga lining, you are going to have the remaining units outside.

    Which leads to "if I'm going to perfect ambush one final unit in for reliability, I might as well use it on something like a 10 man unit of Abberants - because its more concentrated than 20 acolytes."
    But I feel you are then quickly heading back towards what I'd consider "the standard GSC list", which I don't think its unfair to say hasn't really worked competitively.

    What I was thinking is that by having so many acolytes, if you do fail a couple of charge, its not the end of the world, because you have a lot of others to roll. The downside is eating a lot of overwatch, but thats something you have bodies to take. Ork players sometimes end up gambling on da Jump and ere we go and I think that only has a 50/50. (Not that Orks are dominating the meta, but I think they are doing better than GSC).

    An idea I had might be trying 3 units with twisted helix+broodsurge rerolls+Clamavus, while the other 3 have 4AE+Iconward S Banner. This is probably irrational though - because you are not concentrating all the buffs to making failures really unlikely. It might be that 120 acolytes is just too many. Or perhaps it would be better to take them in units of say 15, and have 8 potential charges. Although this may be becoming silly.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/17 01:50:28


    Post by: yukishiro1


    Mass charges usually don't work well, especially not from the same origin point. You end up getting in the way of each other if there's even room to put all those models down, unless your opponent does something silly like let you DS in-between two different targets that you can charge at from the same point but in totally different directions.

    One of the best parts of GSC is that you can keep so many of your models off the table and deliver them staggered as they are needed, to where they are needed, based on the evolving game situation. Too many players make the mistake of thinking everything has to come in on T2 in one big charge, when in fact that rarely works out well against an opponent with any board awareness.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/17 19:48:04


    Post by: Red Corsair


    32mm bases really bone horde assault armies.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/21 09:55:13


    Post by: Ferryman


    How do you arm your acolytes? I´m going with 2x20, so far I´ve got 3 saws and a drill. And a couple demo charges for narrative games.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/21 20:55:12


    Post by: yukishiro1


    The competitive choice is only rock saws, usually in unit of 10 with 4 saws. I wouldn't run more than one unit of 20 kitted out for combat, typically you're only going to be able to get the perfect ambush and buff combo drop off once per game and if you're not doing that two units of 10 gives you more bang for your buck in terms of delivery options.

    The other way to run a 20-man squad is with 20 hand flamers and use the strat to appear 3 inches away and waste something with 20d6 flamer shots.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/22 03:48:07


    Post by: Strat_N8


    On the subject of Rock Saws, the new Goliath Forge Born and Stimmers kit comes with four of them and they look fairly easy to convert over for Acolytes (one in particular is "holstered" on a strap). If anyone happens to have a large Necromunda group it might not hurt to check in with Goliath players for spares.

    I have started including a Rock Cutter in my Acolyte squads with relatively good results. My local gaming group has had a bit of a strange meta shift where we have had an unusual influx in Aggressors, Custodes, Mega Nobz, Grotesques, and Tyranid Warriors. These targets have the annoyance of "wasting" a 2-damage Rock Saw hit with their third wound, but with Cutters there are relatively good odds of each wound being a kill (either from a natural 3 on damage or by rolling a 3+ or 2+ for the ability after damage). I would be curious if someone more mathematically-inclined could math out the relative efficiency of the two weapons against such targets. My experience so far has been that the Cutters "feel" more efficient due to their ability and they seem to work well, but the sample size is so small at the moment that a bit of math to confirm would be nice.

    Another item relating to the discussion earlier regarding sending in waves, I'm also playing with the idea of Metamorphs as a first-wave for chaff destruction. On average a squad of 5 with just the stock Talon + Rending Claw should kill about 7 GEQ models or inflict 5 wounds to a MEQ (so a full squad of scouts or little over half of a Primaris squad). The stock squad is the same cost as a bare-bones infantry squad so they are trading evenly (or up in the case of a marine unit) while also being mostly independent.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/22 04:30:14


    Post by: yukishiro1


    It slows things down dramatically and may get you accused of being "that guy," but technically in a unit like acolytes where you have multiple types of weapons fighting against multi-wound models that you don't kill in even increments (i.e. 3 wound models if you have rock saws), can't you alternate your attacks between the saws and the non-saws in the order that best kills models so you waste the least possible damage?

    I.e. you attack first with a rock saw guy, and if you do 2 damage to a model, you then attack with with a rending claws + cultist knife guy (if you do it this way you do have to do it per model per the rulebook, so you gotta do the cultist knife at the same time you do the rending claws) until you take the last wound off, then go back to a rock saw, and if say you miss that attack, put in another rock saw, etc etc. This way you don't lose any efficiency unless you run out of non-saw cultists before you run out of saw cultists, which is unlikely given the ratios.

    Note that I have never actually done this and it just occurred to me right now, so I am not guaranteeing this is right...but as I'm reading the core rulebook right now, it does seem written that way? As I read it, the player taking the wounds gets to allocate the wounds, but you get to choose the order your models within the unit fight in, and once someone takes a wound, they have to keep taking them, so RAW this should work?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/03/23 20:42:11


    Post by: NinthMusketeer


    @OP, thank you for that initial post! Very helpful as a Tyranids player looking to add GSC.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/01 03:04:22


    Post by: Strat_N8


    NinthMusketeer wrote:@OP, thank you for that initial post! Very helpful as a Tyranids player looking to add GSC.


    You are most welcome! I'm glad you found it helpful.

    yukishiro1 wrote:It slows things down dramatically and may get you accused of being "that guy," but technically in a unit like acolytes where you have multiple types of weapons fighting against multi-wound models that you don't kill in even increments (i.e. 3 wound models if you have rock saws), can't you alternate your attacks between the saws and the non-saws in the order that best kills models so you waste the least possible damage?


    I think you could do it this way (don't have my rulebook available at the moment) but I think it still has the issue of "loosing" damage since the saw model needs to resolve all of their attacks before moving on to a different model as you pointed out. If the saw model gets two hits and wounds damage from the second wound is "lost" before you would have an opportunity for a regular grunt to take a swing at it.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/01 03:44:01


    Post by: yukishiro1


    Yeah, you're still going to have lost damage no matter what. But at least it mitigates it a bit.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/13 22:55:19


    Post by: Niiai


    Hi again. I just started playing some warhammer again after a long break. After some games with Tyranids I felt confident enough to dip into bringing my GSC to the battle. I was hesitant, as GSC has a lot of things going on.

    Anyway, I do remember having my santus with sniper rifle popping up turn 1 and shoot a psyker. Perhaps that was in the small window between codex publishing and before the rule change that tactical reserves can not arrive turn 1?

    Is there any way for GSC to arive from reserve turn 1? I thought maiby in our own deployment zone or something?

    Cheers.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 01:21:39


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Niiai wrote:

    Anyway, I do remember having my santus with sniper rifle popping up turn 1 and shoot a psyker. Perhaps that was in the small window between codex publishing and before the rule change that tactical reserves can not arrive turn 1?


    The Sanctus can still do this trick by deploying from an ambush marker and using the perfect ambush stratagem (for free, due to their cult assassin rule). It is still quite a good trick.

     Niiai wrote:

    Is there any way for GSC to arive from reserve turn 1? I thought maiby in our own deployment zone or something?


    Currently the only way is via the Psychic Summoning stratagem, which deploys a new (reinforcement points-paid for) unit from Cult Ambush in place of casting any powers from a given psyker There are, however, a lot of tricks that can allow for a lot of first-turn pressure if you built for it (Jackals being pushed up by Ridgerunners using their Flare Launchers, Goliath Truck using Reckless Maneuver to unload passengers after moving, Genetic Linage for advance and charge Acolytes, etc.).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 09:23:54


    Post by: Niiai


    Could you be more spesific on how to get first turn charge?

    I also play tyrnids. (Started collecting GSC because I remember them from 2nd edition. They are really cool! And I wanted allies for my Nids.) If I want first turn charges as a Nid I will usualy go kraken genestealers and the swarmlord.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 12:57:18


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Niiai wrote:
    Could you be more spesific on how to get first turn charge?



    Sure, though as a caveat all of these are somewhat gimmicky to one degree or another.

    Method 1: Psychic Summons

    This version is fairly straightforward, you just need to set aside some reinforcement points and have a psyker deployed on the table to use the Psychic Summons stratagem. In most cases this is going to be used to summon Metamorphs or Acolytes since they are cheap in power and are thus fairly reliable to get. Once the squad deploys you can use Perfect Ambush to move them closer and increase the likelihood of a charge.

    There are two main drawbacks to this method. The first is that it is a bit random in how large a unit you can bring in and Perfect Ambush can roll low for distance. The second is that this method happens before you have an opportunity to kill screens, so depending on the match-up you might not get much benefit from using it on the first turn (best case is vs an army that is aggressively using infiltrators to secure the midfield and leaves their backfield exposed).

    Method 2: Reckless Maneuver

    Also fairly straightforward, drive a Goliath Truck up as quickly as possible and use the Reckless Maneuver stratagem to disembark its passengers after moving for a grand travel distance of 17'' (generally enough to put one in striking range of the front line).

    The drawbacks here are that it is fairly easy to telegraph what you are intending on doing with this, especially if you only have 1-2 Goliath Trucks. If your opponent gets first turn and destroys your truck there isn't much you can do about it. It also requires a fairly significant command point investment since the stratagem in question is tied to the Deliverance Broodsurge specialist detachment (though admittedly this specialist detachment has other perks that make it desirable too).

    Method 3: Atlan Slingshot

    This one involves using the Ridgerunner's Flare Launcher to push Atlan Jackals up the field to screen out the opposition. At minimum the Jackals under the effects of the Flare Launcher can move 20'' which is generally enough to get to any hostile target. Normally the focus is on shooting away screens with Shotguns and Grenade Launchers, but you can use Psychic Stimulus to allow one squad to charge afterwards to tie up a target. The nice thing about this one is that it doesn't require much if any command point investment and has minimal variance involved, but conversely the overall damage potential is somewhat low (outside of screen clearance).

    Main drawback here is that it requires a fairly sizable investment and has a lot of moving parts that need to line up in order to get the charge. This tactic also tends to favor taking Rusted Claw, Four-Armed Emperor, or Twisted Helix creeds since each has something that improves an element of it. Rusted Claw removes the accuracy penalty from the Jackal's assault weapons while Four-Armed Emperor and Twisted Helix extend the threat ranges (and, tend to favor units that appreciate the Jackals pushing back the enemy so they can deep strike in).

    Method 4: Ambush Token

    This one was discussed in some depth earlier in this thread if I remember right, but it basically boils down to using Perfect Ambush on a unit setting up via an Ambush Token to move outside of the deployment zone (average of 3'') followed by a move with advance to push up the field. As mentioned before, any unit can advance and charge with the Psychic Stimulus power while Acolytes and the Sanctus can do so with a stratagem and Purestrain Genestealers/Patriarchs can do so innately.

    This one tends to be rather CP hungry but in some ways it is the least gimmicky of the three since it doesn't require any special army construction considerations. Like the Atlan one above it tends to work best with the Four-Armed Emperor or Twisted Helix who can extend the threat range a bit for the hybrid models.


    If you are going for early pressure you are probably going to be combining a couple of these together so you have sufficient threat saturation (possibly also include Kraken 'stealers + Swarmy).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 13:00:50


    Post by: Niiai


    Can one use Perfect AMbush on units deploying via Ambush Tokens?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 13:02:36


    Post by: addnid


     Niiai wrote:
    Can one use Perfect AMbush on units deploying via Ambush Tokens?


    Like Obama said, yes one can. Make perfect ambush great again


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 13:16:10


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Niiai wrote:
    Can one use Perfect AMbush on units deploying via Ambush Tokens?


    Yes, since the condition is whenever an infantry unit sets up using the Cult Ambush ability, which includes both the ambush tokens and deepstrike.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 17:57:24


    Post by: Keramory


    Question on Demo charges, or grenades in general for the Jackels. I've seen there be different answers everywhere and was wondering if GSC players typically do this or not.

    For any type of gernade, can you advance and throw one? Some argue you can't because only assault can advance and shoot. others argue you can get around it because gernades are in place of shooting the typical guns.

    Normally I don't nit pick, but this comes up often when I play GSC in terms of wanting to do it, because their limited 6 inch range makes a huge difference if I can advance or not.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 18:49:17


    Post by: Niiai


    While I am not an expert on the subject I would say no.

    The rules for shooting states who can shoot and the rules that follow after that. Units that have advanced can not shoot.

    Under grenades it states that each time a unit shoots one of the models can throw a grenade. But since you have advanced you can not shoot.

    A unit with assault weapon may fire the assault weapon even if they advances. If you do so you suptrack 1 from any hit roll when firering that weapon. Since it refers to the weapon I would assume you can only fire the ssault weapon.

    The rule for assault weapon does not let you throw a grenade instead as the overall rules says you can not shoot if you have advanced.

    If you want to argue further take it to YMTC part of the forum.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 19:58:43


    Post by: Keramory


    Not really arguing it one way or another, I 100% don't know the answer... but everywhere you see many different answers.

    I posted it here only because this seems like something primarily GSC players would do with jackel charges if it was an even slightly accepted thing to do.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 20:12:25


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Keramory wrote:

    For any type of gernade, can you advance and throw one? Some argue you can't because only assault can advance and shoot. others argue you can get around it because gernades are in place of shooting the typical guns.


    Currently you cannot. While they are used in place of a different weapon, they are still classified as a shooting attack and fall under the rules for advancing.

    Now it is worth noting that in the Index army list Demolition Charges were Assault D6 weapons instead of Grenade D6 so some of the confusion might be due to that. Also the vehicle-mounted Cache of Demolition Charges is Assault D6 too.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/14 23:28:13


    Post by: Niiai


    If I am running a 10 man squad with mininglasers to apear from ambush would you rather run the with webers for 1 point or grenade launchers for 3 points?

    Grenade launchers seems unapealing for me. Unlessyou shoot at T6 you are wounding on 5+ with krak grenade.

    Weber on the other han is S4 range 16 and auto hits. Also will work very good as owerwatch vs charges. What do you think?

    Also, the power maul? 4 points for S5 seems very exspesie. Can you ever see it making its points back?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/15 01:09:27


    Post by: Keramory


    Honestly I've never read anyone in favor for webbers. GL adds a slight benefit of firepower, but I would go as bare bones as possible personally. Neophytes are CP, little more, unless you deep strike them to blast something in the face.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/15 23:24:08


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Niiai wrote:If I am running a 10 man squad with mininglasers to apear from ambush would you rather run the with webers for 1 point or grenade launchers for 3 points?


    I tend to take Webbers with Mining Laser squads. The squad will generally be focused on positioning to take shots at hardened targets, but having cheap auto-hitting weapons for charge deterrence is helpful. Webbers are also rather fun with Shotgun squads with Web Pistol leader for a trio of auto-hitting guns.

    I do like Grenade Launchers but I generally take them with Seismic Cannons since the two weapons have similar firing modes. The two weapons working together basically give you the S3 firepower of 10 autogun Neophytes in double-tap range concentrated into 4 models at full range, which keeps the squad's firepower fairly consistent until down to the last 5 models. In addition, the 8 S6 shots also let them threaten heavy infantry fairly well which is something that the squad usually struggles to do.

    I admittedly unusually use said squads in more mechanized builds, since the concentrated firepower works well with open topped Goliath Trucks.

    Niiai wrote:
    Also, the power maul? 4 points for S5 seems very exspesie. Can you ever see it making its points back?


    It is hard to justify melee weaponry on autogun squads but it is a bit easier with shotgun squads. They don't really need special weapons and don't want heavy weapons so the total investment tends to be fairly low and they also tend to like getting within charge range to take advantage of the S4 firing mode. Twisted Helix gives it a bit of a bump as well.

    Keramory wrote:Honestly I've never read anyone in favor for webbers.


    To be fair, they were a niche weapon in the 7th edition codex (small blast weapon that used enemy strength for armor piercing) and a fairly poor weapon in the Index. The codex version is a fairly decent weapon with the addition of automatically hitting targets and bargin cost.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/16 08:46:51


    Post by: Niiai


    The thing about the webbers is you are not taking a 10 man squad for 50 points and thinking 'I am taking this for the webbers.' You are buying the squad for a purpose. Like say shooting mining lasers.

    When you have already spent 74 points on mining lasers the cost of 2 points for two weabbers seems like a good bargain.

    I do not know how good shotgun squads are. But the webber pistol sounds OK in there as well. Although if you are range 6 flamers could be good as well.

    2d3 autohits S4 on overwatch makes sure you kill at least one model if something regular charges you.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/16 15:07:19


    Post by: AuntHerbert


    I got some ideas for nice Ratling proxies, inspired by this famous drawing of "Nocturnal warriors of Hrud" http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-O-1fwzj_jZM/UfP561vIvLI/AAAAAAAAAQY/OnnNf-9TWyI/s1600/Other_dangerous_aliens.jpg or Star Wars Javas: Basically tiny bumps of robes, that look barely human, brandishing huge sniper rifles.
    Now, for me to decide if I just want to do a few as an art project, or if I want to go doing real units, so 10 or even 20 models of them, I would love to have the answer to some questions:
    a) They are legal in my GSC list, aren't they? They are Imperial Guards choices, after all, right?
    and
    b) Has anyone tried them in GSC and can tell me, f they are actually any good, or just a waste of points and AM elite slots?
    I mean, GSC has access to some quite decent sniper choices, between the Jackal Alpha and the Sanctus, but sometimes piling on more of a good thing works in 40k.
    Like 2 JA, 2 Sancti, AND 20 Ratlings should give most opponents headaches about deploying their buff chars...

    Somehow I also feel their special mix of threatening AND annoying fits well into GSC overall playstile.

    So, some thoughts about the idea from you guys?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/16 17:44:45


    Post by: Niiai


    1d4chan gives them good reviews. They should fit fairly well with GSC shenanigans. Taking put characters is a nice little minigame.

    (Search for ratlings to find the entry.)

    https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Guard(8E)#Elites


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/17 07:44:40


    Post by: NinthMusketeer


    So bit of a different question here. I have a squad of Neophytes and I want to equip them in a manner useful for both 40k AND for Kill Team. Any advice?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/17 16:50:25


    Post by: AuntHerbert


     NinthMusketeer wrote:
    So bit of a different question here. I have a squad of Neophytes and I want to equip them in a manner useful for both 40k AND for Kill Team. Any advice?


    Hmm, I would take the leader with Cultist Knife and Webpistol, 2 guys with Mining Laser, 2 guys with Grenade Launcher, 5 guys with shotgun. In 40k I would consider putting them in a Goliath, to improve the mediocre range of the weaponry by using them as mech-infantry assault squad. In Kill Team distances are lower to begin with, and you got a good choice of weapon profiles against most things you might be up against.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/19 10:28:59


    Post by: Niiai


    I tried searching on the internett but came up short.

    What are our most competetive builds?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/19 10:31:17


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    - Bladed Cog Mining Weapons spam with Tyranid shooting support.
    - Hive Cult Ridgerunner spam with Tyranid shooting support.

    I don't think there's anything more atm


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/19 14:29:02


    Post by: Strat_N8


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I don't think there's anything more atm


    To expand upon this slightly, GSC had more or less disappeared from tournament showings for the first couple months of the year due to a combination of factors (many popular list builds took a hit from Chapter Approved 2019, several top placing players jumped ship to Iron Hands, and a relatively hostile meta). We don't have much data for performance after the Greater Good was released since the pandemic ended tournament play, but the lists mentioned appeared to be pulling out some wins. To some extent this makes sense, as the Greater Good mostly added tools for shooting rather than melee.

    For what limited value it is worth, my best performing lists currently have been ones that have leveraged the army's Fast Attack (Jackals and Ridgerunners) for board control/fire support and Acolytes/Metamorphs for critical threat removal.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/19 16:43:07


    Post by: AuntHerbert


    Just curious, is there one generally acknowledged type of "Tyranid shooting support" used, or does it vary a lot between players?
    I guess a boatload of Termagaunts, what else? What adaptions are usually chosen, how big is the detachments, any MVP, tricks, synergies, shenannigans of note?
    Why and how are they better in their role than native GSC options?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/19 17:19:15


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     AuntHerbert wrote:
    Just curious, is there one generally acknowledged type of "Tyranid shooting support" used, or does it vary a lot between players?
    I guess a boatload of Termagaunts, what else? What adaptions are usually chosen, how big is the detachments, any MVP, tricks, synergies, shenannigans of note?
    Why and how are they better in their role than native GSC options?


    Exocrines and Hive Guard. Termagants are not good for shooting purposes.
    The chosen adaptations are always Kronos in their case, in a 2x Neurothropes and 3x Ripper Swarms detachments.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/21 15:39:16


    Post by: Niiai


    The tyranid shooting units are hive guards impaler cannons and exoshrines. One has shoot x2 stratagem. Other has slimer maggots.

    For anfantery everybody run flying tyrants with slimer maggots. Some people run carnifexes as well.

    Those are the standar once. Here are some non standar. Still good but nieche, or just less popular.

    Every one run impaler cannons. But the tesla weapons actually came out best for expected damage. Try them out.

    Tyranofex with rupture cannon is better vs T8 then others.

    Heavy venom cannon is good after the drop in price. Put them on tyrants or carnifexes. 36 range means possitoningbis less important, so yiu can stil huntvinfantery with the slimer weapons.

    Tyranofex with the flamer is good. Very good vs planes. Very good with cheap screens, meaning enemies staybput within 18".

    Gaunts with the 3 attack gun out of a tunnel with shoot x2 stratgem is 180 S4 shots. Very impresive.

    If you do pick warriors venom cannon is OK. But very unreliable. (Also look in blood of ball for the MSU reroll trait: Synaptic Augmentation. Good for small units of venom and heavy venom cannons.)

    To a different topic: How do people like their ridge runners? I am trying to compare it to the lascannon heavy weapon platform. They come out at 80 points for 3 shots. The ridgerunner comes out at 60 with d3 shots. (2 on averadge.) Does that make the ridgerunner viable? Or are we just paying to much?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/21 17:03:40


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Niiai wrote:
    The tyranid shooting units are hive guards impaler cannons and exoshrines. One has shoot x2 stratagem. Other has slimer maggots.

    For anfantery everybody run flying tyrants with slimer maggots. Some people run carnifexes as well.

    Those are the standar once. Here are some non standar. Still good but nieche, or just less popular.

    Every one run impaler cannons. But the tesla weapons actually came out best for expected damage. Try them out.

    Tyranofex with rupture cannon is better vs T8 then others.

    Heavy venom cannon is good after the drop in price. Put them on tyrants or carnifexes. 36 range means possitoningbis less important, so yiu can stil huntvinfantery with the slimer weapons.

    Tyranofex with the flamer is good. Very good vs planes. Very good with cheap screens, meaning enemies staybput within 18".

    Gaunts with the 3 attack gun out of a tunnel with shoot x2 stratgem is 180 S4 shots. Very impresive.

    If you do pick warriors venom cannon is OK. But very unreliable. (Also look in blood of ball for the MSU reroll trait: Synaptic Augmentation. Good for small units of venom and heavy venom cannons.)

    To a different topic: How do people like their ridge runners? I am trying to compare it to the lascannon heavy weapon platform. They come out at 80 points for 3 shots. The ridgerunner comes out at 60 with d3 shots. (2 on averadge.) Does that make the ridgerunner viable? Or are we just paying to much?


    Ridgerunner 100% comes on top for everything:

    Better mobility
    Better accuracy with Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Auras sinergies
    Better price
    Better durability

    Lascannon Heavy Weapons are outclassed in every aspect even if they had all AM synergies (Which they do not)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/21 19:10:00


    Post by: Niiai


    They do not have better prices. The offensive S9 is better with Lascannon teams then the ridgerunner.

    What are the stratagems, warlordtraits and auras? I am a bit behind on my GSC these days.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/21 20:34:03


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Niiai wrote:
    What are the stratagems, warlordtraits and auras? I am a bit behind on my GSC these days.


    Hit roll modification:
    - Jack Alphus "Priority Target Sighted" aura
    - Chilling Efficiency (Hivecult signature stratagem)
    - Hivelord (Hivecult warlord trait)
    - Vengeance for the Martyred (Pauper Princes signature stratagem)
    - Racking Fire (Greater Good - Heavy Stubbers only)

    Wound roll modification:
    - Primus' Meticulous Planner aura
    - Single-Minded Obsession (Bladed Cog warlord trait)
    - Overcharged Weaponry (Greater Good - Heavy Mining Laser only)
    - Racking Fire (Greater Good - Heavy Stubbers only)

    Misc.
    - Undying Vigor (Bladed Cog signature psychic power)
    - Sensor Decoys (extra ambush markers - Ridgerunners are VERY efficient users of ambush when taken as a squadron)
    - Meticulous Uprising (moving ambush markers - same reasoning as above)
    - Nexos redeploy (see above)
    - Inescapable Decay (Rusted Claw signature psychic power - technically applies to Brood Brothers weapon teams as well but worth noting)
    - Flare Launchers interaction with GSC bikes.

    I suppose it is also worth noting, the Twin Heavy Stubbers aren't too bad to have either for chaff clearing. They have good range and you can buff them considerably as well.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/21 21:46:20


    Post by: Niiai


    Thank you for that exstensive list.

    But many of these apply to the heavy weapon team as well. I do not care about the stubbers, I only want the anti tank.

    Overcharged weaponary is ridgerunner spesefic. I suppose meticalus uprising is better once you reach 2 ridgerunners. Most of the others can be applied to heavy weapon teams as well. But there are some good ideas in there. (Might push it far ahead of carnifexes and walking hive tyrants with heavy venom cannons.)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/21 23:18:32


    Post by: Strat_N8


    The only ones that work for Brood Brothers are the ambush manipulation ones and the Rusted Claw psychic power. The rest are all keyed off the <Cult> keyword which makes Brood Brothers ineligible recipients. Ridgerunners are <Cult> units, so they do benefit.

    Also since I missed this earlier:
     AuntHerbert wrote:

    Why and how are they better in their role than native GSC options?


    The two biggest factors for the ones mentioned earlier are an innate BS 3+ and the platforms are relatively more durable than their GSC counterparts.

    GSC fire support tends to rely upon force multipliers and numbers to make it scary. Hivecult Ridgerunners for instance can be boosted to hitting on a 2+ (potentially rerolling 1s) and wounding most targets on a 2+ (also potentially rerolling 1s) with the assistance of a Jackal Alphus, a Primus, Chilling Efficiency, and Overcharged Weapons. The result is terrifying, but it has a lot of moving parts to get there. The Tyranid guns in comparison are more or less self-contained.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/22 15:14:27


    Post by: Niiai


    I have come across a spare GSC neophyte spruce. I currently have four squads armed identical: 2 mining lasers, 2 webbers, leader with autogun and chainsword.

    My question is what should I be arming the 5th 10 man squad as. I feel 10 identical squads might be to many for diversatys sake. Perhaps give them grenade launchers instead of webbers? On the other hand they are a very versatile group that can do plenty.

    Usualy i use them in a combined GSC and nids army, so I use 33 point ripper swarm as objective grabbers. Also my fancy deoployment stratagems as usually used elsewhere, so a fancy shotgunsquad might not be what I am looking for. I usualy run them in bladed caugh. Suggestions are welcome.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 01:41:47


    Post by: Strat_N8


    For your purposes and creed selection the Mining Laser/Webber squad is probably the most optimal configuration. As much as I would like to argue alternatives, the other Neophyte load-outs are more or less entirely anti-infantry oriented and that isn't really something Tyranids are generally hurting for in their troop selections compared to anti-armor.

    Also as an aside, I have generally found that when running GSC alongside Tyranids it is generally a good idea to shy away from the Tyranid units that rely upon deepstrike unless you just need the slot filled cheaply (such as Rippers for troops, Lictors for Elites). For the most part GSC deepstrike is going to be a more effective use of your reserve slots in a combined army since they bring more damage potential and can redeploy via Return to Shadows if required later on. Mawlocs are another exception, since they can burrow to avoid eating a reserve slot and they are a rather nifty helper for GSC units.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 13:21:11


    Post by: AuntHerbert


     Niiai wrote:
    I My question is what should I be arming the 5th 10 man squad as.......Suggestions are welcome.

    Lol. If you exclude 90% of the options, there isn't much left to suggest. Let's see, no shotguns,no additional pips, melee isn't a real option, Mining Laser/Grenade Launcher and Mining Laser/Webber have already been discussed, Flamer only makes sense with shotguns...
    So, it's down to decide between Heavy Stubber and Seismic Cannon. Both are anti-infantry options, and the Seismic Cannon is slightly better at the job, but probably not 10 pts worth of better.
    Snip, snap, I HAVE A SUGGESTION! How about you arm that squad with a Heavy Stubber and a Webber!

    Edit, hmm I didn't see that 6s to wound improve the AP to -4.
    I CHANGE MY SUGGESTON: How about you arm em with a Seismic Cannon and a Webber! He can have a pink helmet and a cut-off with a slaanesh symbol and pretend to be a Nose Marine!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 19:00:19


    Post by: Niiai


    Well your sarcasemn aside, how would you want to arm your 10 man squads then? I am upen to all suggestions.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 19:22:11


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Niiai wrote:
    Well your sarcasemn aside, how would you want to arm your 10 man squads then? I am upen to all suggestions.


    10 Men units with Webbers/Grenade Launchers and Mining LAZORs, there isn't any other equip that functions well with them (Shotgun + Flamer is just memeish) since the alternatives aren't many to begin with and half of them are not well priced at all


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 20:47:06


    Post by: AuntHerbert


    Well, mostly with Mining Laser and Grenade Laucher, sure, because it's the sensible all purpose option. But as you said, you got so many of them, that you don't need anymore.

    So, let me pull some fancier alternatives out of an undisclosed location:

    Patriarch escort

    If I wanted mostly a screen against Sniper fire to hop in front of my Patriarch, (unquestioning Loyalty) I might actually consider shotguns and a pair of flamers, just to make it a tiny bit more painful if someone tries to charge them and mop them up in melee to clear the line of fire. Also as a bit of a fastmoving castle against fast melee opponents/deep strike charges.
    In that case, assuming I got the spare points, I would even consider adding a heavy stubber and even a power maul.

    Long range firepower and expensive heavy weapons make no sense for a Patriarch escort, as they will do most of their shooting on the run or in overwatch, and the game plan for the Patriarch is to beeline towards some tasty meatbags, not to sit around a sniper's nest. On the last yards, the escort can remove a bit of enemy bubblewrap units, to make sure the Patriarch can get through to the meaty parts.
    20 men blobs OTOH do make sense. They can carry less equipment per model, but it also takes considerably more effort to wipe the unit in one go. Icon is a maybe.

    Bladed Cog is naturally quite good at running escort for a Patriarch..


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 21:11:38


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     AuntHerbert wrote:
    Well, mostly with Mining Laser and Grenade Laucher, sure, because it's the sensible all purpose option. But as you said, you got so many of them, that you don't need anymore.

    So, let me pull some fancier alternatives out of an undisclosed location:

    Patriarch escort

    If I wanted mostly a screen against Sniper fire to hop in front of my Patriarch, (unquestioning Loyalty) I might actually consider shotguns and a pair of flamers, just to make it a tiny bit more painful if someone tries to charge them and mop them up in melee to clear the line of fire. Also as a bit of a fastmoving castle against fast melee opponents/deep strike charges.
    In that case, assuming I got the spare points, I would even consider adding a heavy stubber and even a power maul.

    Long range firepower and expensive heavy weapons make no sense for a Patriarch escort, as they will do most of their shooting on the run or in overwatch, and the game plan for the Patriarch is to beeline towards some tasty meatbags, not to sit around a sniper's nest. On the last yards, the escort can remove a bit of enemy bubblewrap units, to make sure the Patriarch can get through to the meaty parts.
    20 men blobs OTOH do make sense. They can carry less equipment per model, but it also takes considerably more effort to wipe the unit in one go. Icon is a maybe.

    Bladed Cog is naturally quite good at running escort for a Patriarch..


    At that point Brood Brothers are 100% better for Unquestioning Loyalty purposes since they are 4ppm (cheapest source of wounds per cost).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/04/29 22:29:39


    Post by: AuntHerbert


    Telepathic Summons

    The main drawback for the Telepathic Summons stratagem is, that it is ultimately cheesy pay to win.
    If you field 2 or 3 Psykers, put 125 points in reserve, and keep 4 CP around, sell your firstborn son into slavery to buy one more of every HQ character, 2 more of every Elite characters, and enough infantry and bikers to field every possible unit in every possible wargear combo up to 125 points twice, and rent a truck to drive your collection to the game, then you will never ever have to fight with the thought "Darn, Now I wish I had brought that unit/model to counter whatever my opponent plans".
    The "good" thing: You don't need Aberrants, as their cheapest unit costs 140 points. As for.Atalans, you only need, 2 Leaders and 11 Jackals, fully magnetized, plus 1 magnetized Quad, as there is no way to cram more than that in 125 points.
    As for Neophyte Hybrid options: Ideally 19 with autoguns, 19 with shotguns, 4 of every special weapon,, 1 of every heavy weapon and a leaders for every type of melee weapons or two magnetized leaders.
    Usually, they won't be the first choice to summon, but if you didn't need, say, a Patriarch in the first summon, but only, say a Kelermorph, you will have points left in the summoning pool, and you can summon these guys in the next turn to clear the pool.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:

    At that point Brood Brothers are 100% better for Unquestioning Loyalty purposes since they are 4ppm (cheapest source of wounds per cost).


    Yeah, you are wrong.
    2 Reasons.
    First: The question was not "What is the next unit I should buy" but "What should I do with that last unit of Neophytes, I already got such a stack of Hybrids all set up exactly the same"
    Second:. Brood Brothers don't get the 6++ from Bladed Cog, and can't benefit from Cult Reinforcement stratagem. So on average you get 1/6 more bodies. You pay 80 points for 20 Broodbrother bodies, and 100 points for 23,3 Neophytes. Better chances to keep the unit with its equipment in game to refill it with CP for only a very modest price increase.
    Are Brood Brothers often better? Sure. 100%, so, in every case? Definitely nope.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/06 00:16:14


    Post by: Overread


    A question that I've not found a firm answer too in my limited searching. I know that Genstealers can take both several specific Imperial Guard units within the cult and also ally in basically all the Imperial Guard units they want (though without all the benefits of either army and restricted to one detachment per cultist detachment).

    However I've also come across references of using other Imperial forces, namely Adepticus Mechanicus. Is this purely a "lore/conversions/counts-as" thing or can they specifically take them as an allied force?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/06 10:40:57


    Post by: hangnailnz


    I believe that it is only models with the Astra Militarum keyword - which does include some AdMech key-worded models as well (Techpriests and servitors), but no wholesale allying in... sadly.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/06 20:41:01


    Post by: Overread


    hangnailnz wrote:
    I believe that it is only models with the Astra Militarum keyword - which does include some AdMech key-worded models as well (Techpriests and servitors), but no wholesale allying in... sadly.


    Ahh that's a shame.


    So general followup question how good are Atalan Jackals and do they work well in larger groups/more groups or are they more of a niche thing?

    And do you think these will look good instead of bikes?

    Spoiler:


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/06 20:59:42


    Post by: Niiai


    Yeah, they could work as count as bikers. Although I suspect bikes move a lot faster then a horse. And hence it would be a bit odd. But it could work.

    If they are cheaper then bikes that is a good reason. But I really enjoy the dirt bikes. The dirt bikes really matches the high cordinated but budget oriented GSC cult moving in the unseen and doing sabotage qork to slowly overtake the world.

    Both are great models though. The new mecanicus range is great. I really love the Frank Herbert ornitopthers.

    (Perhaps you could stick a magis in the cockpit and do a cpunt as flying hive tyrant?)


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/09 20:59:21


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Overread wrote:A question that I've not found a firm answer too in my limited searching. I know that Genstealers can take both several specific Imperial Guard units within the cult and also ally in basically all the Imperial Guard units they want (though without all the benefits of either army and restricted to one detachment per cultist detachment).

    However I've also come across references of using other Imperial forces, namely Adepticus Mechanicus. Is this purely a "lore/conversions/counts-as" thing or can they specifically take them as an allied force?


    The Brood Brothers rule only allows for detachments of Astra Militarium unfortunately. Most of the GSC/Admech combinations floating around are conversions for the Bladed Cog cult, as it originated on a Mechanicus-controlled world and its members are described as having extensive cybernetics. The GSC and Admech ranges are fairly compatible with each other, so it isn't to hard to mix and match to make cyborg hybrids.

    Overread wrote:
    So general followup question how good are Atalan Jackals and do they work well in larger groups/more groups or are they more of a niche thing?


    My experience has generally been that Jackals are very good at board control and are reasonably effective at eliminating screening units. With the tools available to the Rusted Claw creed they can also fill an anti-armor role as well, though for the most part they will want to prioritize targeting light infantry.

    I personally prefer larger units for the expanded footprint for board control and it makes them more efficient recipients of various buffs (Close Range Shootout and Flare Launchers being the most noteworthy).

    Overread wrote:
    And do you think these will look good instead of bikes?


    Those look like they are on the same size base, so I don't see any reason why those wouldn't work. Admittedly, I would not be surprised if the Atalan Jackals kit ends up being a bit cheaper in the end since they don't have to accommodate parts for an alternate build (just different weapons).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/16 22:57:42


    Post by: BlaxicanX


    Can I get some feedback on this 1000 point list? I'm new to GSC and will be doing practice matches on Tabletop simulator. My local meta is mostly gunline armies in Mechanicus, IG and Deathwatch.

    Spoiler:

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Genestealer Cults - Hive Cult) [60 PL, 998pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant

    Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Hivelord

    + Troops +

    Acolyte Hybrids [9 PL, 178pts]: Cult Icon
    . 8x Acolyte Hybrid: 8x Autopistol, 8x Blasting Charges, 8x Cultist Knife, 8x Rending Claw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Bonesword

    Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 100pts]: Cult Icon
    . 7x Acolyte Hybrid: 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Cultist Knife, 7x Rending Claw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

    Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]
    . 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
    . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

    Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]
    . 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
    . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

    Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]
    . 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
    . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

    + Elites +

    Aberrants [14 PL, 240pts]
    . 7x Aberrant (Pick): 7x Power Pick, 7x Rending Claw
    . Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon

    + Fast Attack +

    Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

    Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

    Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

    ++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts] ++


    The general plan is to clear chaff with the Ridgerunners and Neophytes, then DS the Abberants, Acolytes and Iconoward over turns 2 and 3. I'm not committed to any of these units, so the sky's the limit in changing things around.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/16 23:52:29


    Post by: Niiai


     BlaxicanX wrote:
    Can I get some feedback on this 1000 point list? I'm new to GSC and will be doing practice matches on Tabletop simulator. My local meta is mostly gunline armies in Mechanicus, IG and Deathwatch.

    Spoiler:

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Genestealer Cults - Hive Cult) [60 PL, 998pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant

    Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Hivelord

    + Troops +

    Acolyte Hybrids [9 PL, 178pts]: Cult Icon
    . 8x Acolyte Hybrid: 8x Autopistol, 8x Blasting Charges, 8x Cultist Knife, 8x Rending Claw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Bonesword

    Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 100pts]: Cult Icon
    . 7x Acolyte Hybrid: 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Cultist Knife, 7x Rending Claw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
    . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

    Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]
    . 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
    . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

    Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]
    . 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
    . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

    Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 60pts]
    . 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Grenade Launcher
    . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Heavy Stubber
    . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

    + Elites +

    Aberrants [14 PL, 240pts]
    . 7x Aberrant (Pick): 7x Power Pick, 7x Rending Claw
    . Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon

    + Fast Attack +

    Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

    Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

    Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

    ++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts] ++


    The general plan is to clear chaff with the Ridgerunners and Neophytes, then DS the Abberants, Acolytes and Iconoward over turns 2 and 3. I'm not committed to any of these units, so the sky's the limit in changing things around.


    What does the second group of hyrbids do? Ido not like them. You will pay 3 CP for the first one for the perfect ambush. 3 CP for the second seems bad. Shurley you are gonne use the stratagem for aberants insread. (Stil, 6 CP?!)

    If you have greater good book have the 3 ridgerunners in the same group. Both the laser and stubber stratagem works for the whole unit. I asume you are using the hive cult for their stratgem? I would consider grabbing mining lasers instead of heavy stubbers for the neophytes because you need lasers. If you do that do bladed cog instead for the move and shoot.

    You can alternativly cosider having the sanctus sniper (great in bladed cog), the gunslinger or a 10 man group of acolyte hybrids with hand flamers. Use the 2 CP stratagem for the last 2 units.

    Othervice looks good enough. Have fun.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/17 07:16:58


    Post by: BlaxicanX


    Thanks for the feedback!

    I kind of get the impression that you're not a fan of dropping in two CC units, due to the massive CP cost of Perfect Ambush- which makes sense I suppose considering I can only get the 1 battalion at 1000 points.

    Would it be more logical to maybe drop the Abberants and 5-man acolyte squad, have just one big 20-man acolyte squad and invest the rest of my points into more shooting?

    My only concern is that I don't want to turn the list into just a gunline, 'cause at that point it's a crappier Imperial Guard army.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/17 10:32:51


    Post by: Niiai


    The ridgerunner is not just crappy IG. They are unique and point effective.

    You can run 2 squads of melee, but you are comitting 6 of your 8 CP. The therd melee squad is not worth it.

    You can consider a handflamer squad of 10 people to use the 1 CP 3" deploy stratagem.

    You can consider 2 batalions for 13 cp.

    I am not a fan of the stubber grenade launcher squads. One to grab objectives if fine. But 3 of them is a lot. Consider a bare brood brother version for a 33% discountvif they only are there to grabbobjectives.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/19 03:47:50


    Post by: BlaxicanX


    Had my first match today. I rolled 1, 1, 1, 2, 4 for my Ridgerunner's 6 heavy mining laser damage rolls in the alpha strike, then proceeded to get gutted in the following phase by all the big shooty units I couldn't kill turn 1.

    But it was a fun time.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/29 23:45:38


    Post by: Strat_N8


     BlaxicanX wrote:
    Had my first match today. I rolled 1, 1, 1, 2, 4 for my Ridgerunner's 6 heavy mining laser damage rolls in the alpha strike, then proceeded to get gutted in the following phase by all the big shooty units I couldn't kill turn 1.


    Ouch... That is doubly bothersome because there is no way to fix damage rolls outside of a command reroll. You can stack modifiers to get hitting and wounding on a 2+ with reroll 1's on both, but it doesn't do much good with rolls like that. :(

    I suppose if it is any consolation, I took mine out for a spin last Tuesday against Deathguard running some Plagueburst Crawlers. The Ridgerunners did 11 wounds to the first one on the first round and 16 to the other on the second round (after disgusting resilience saves). I was actually using Rusted Claw with some supporting Mining Laser Wolfquads as well, but they didn't get to do much.

    On a different note, anyone have thoughts on what has been hinted at for 9th? I have mixed feelings myself at the moment. Improved terrain rules is good for us and vehicles being able to fire into combat is a big boon for our Goliath Trucks (Demo Cache is more attractive) and Rock Grinders (especially with clearance incinerators). Some tweaks to overwatch, falling out of combat, and charging will also be welcome as well. The new command point system I feel a bit mixed on. The current system is ok for us since we like our troops and tend to be CP hungry. If the starting number is significantly higher it could be good for us but time will tell. I am a bit concerned about reserves costing command points though. Depending on how many are available that change could be very problematic for mass ambush-style lists, since such lists are already very command point hungry as is.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/05/30 01:24:38


    Post by: babelfish


    I'm going to jump in here on the Tyanid shooting support question. I run Tyranids, Tyranids, and Tyranids with GSC support.

    There are several options for Tyranid shooting support: Jormugandr Warriors; Kronos Hive Guard/Exocrines; Carnifexes; and devilgaunts.

    I think someone earlier mentioned Tyranofexes. Tyranofexes are only useful in odd T8 spam builds, using their flamer. Cannon Tyranofexes are inferior to equivalent investment in laser Neophytes, and should never be taken.

    Jormugandr Warriors use the Jormugandr fleet trait (always in cover) and an Adaptive Physiology to give two max squads of Warriors a 2+ cover save. They then add a Malanthrope for the -1 to hit, a Tyranid Prime for a +1 to hit, and equip them with cannons, guns, and boneswords. The end result is a block of durable multiwound models that puts out solid shooting and solid cc. It is a solid build that is worth putting a list together around. There is another version of it that uses a different Adaptive to give them ignores -1/-2 AP instead of the 2+ cover. Both builds have merits. The issue is that with either build you lose your warlord trait, spend close to half your points, and are basically a Warrior list with backup something else.

    Kronos Gun Lines revolve around Hive Guard and/or Exocrines. Both Hive Guard and Exocrines are excellent units that can put out substantial damage. Hive Fleet Kronos grants reroll 1's to hit if the unit didn't move, which synergizes well with both Hive Guard and Exocrines. Kronos also has a fleet specific spell that gives a unit exploding sixes and fits nicely on either Hive Guard or Exocrines. Hive Guard are more expensive than Exocrines, but come with built in S8 (vs S7), ignores cover, and does not require line of sight. Exocrines are flat 2 damage (vs Hive Guard at d3 damage), that can be boosted to 3 with a strat, and have a mobility strat that makes them more flexible, movement wise, than Hive Guard. Both put out 12 shots hitting on 3's. Hive Guard can be double tapped for 2CP (infantry strat that lets you shoot twice).

    Both units need a synapse babysitter, which is going to be a Neurothrope, who will carry the exploding 6's spell. Exocrines very much want a Malanthrope for the -1 to hit bubble. Hive Guard are happy staying out of line of sight, so a Malanthrope is much less important and a cheaper Neurothrope works as the second HQ. Rippers and Termagants are cheap enough that there is very little reason not to take a battalion. Kronos also has a very strong anti psycher strat that has a range of 24" from a Kronos model and makes them cast the spell on 1d6 instead of 2d6. Also worth noting is that Termagants are dirt cheap and can be used to screen and occupy space very efficiently, particularly if they trail back to a Malanthrope for the -1 to hit.

    If you want to go all in, Neurothrope + Malanthrope + 40-60 model Termagant screen + 3 Exocrines is very solid gunline that will slow down anything that runs into it.

    If you wan't splash in the 'nids, 2x Neurothrope + 3x Ripper + 6 Hive Guard gives a nice little firebase that will more than make up for the points you put into them.

    Carnifexes can be kitted up to be very effective as short range medium S gun platforms. The standard build is twin pairs of Brainleach Devourers, Enhanced Senses, and Spore Banks. This gives 24 S6 1D shots, hitting on 3's, on reasonably cheap and durable platform with a built in -1 to hit. The normal Hive Fleet for them is Jormugandr, because the always in cover gives them a default 2+ vs shooting. None of the other Hive Fleets help all that much: their range is short enough that they rarely get the bonus from standing still from Kronos, and the rest are unhelpful to simply bad.

    Carnifexes don't benefit from Malantropes (the -1's explicitly don't stack), so the default build is going to be a pair of Neurothropes and 3x Rippers, plus up to 9 Carnifexes. You can viably shave points by running the slightly cheaper Tyranid Primes, as there is no particular spell that the Carnifexes need to work. That said, Neurothropes are very durable and have a range of useful spells, so keeping them is never a bad thing. Carnifexes are also eligible for the +1 damage strat mentioned earlier. 24 S6 D2 shots will murder primaris.

    Devourer's have short enough range that screening the Carnifexes is tricky at best, so the Termagants are not really necessary in the way they are for a Exocrine build. On the other hand, if you are willing to invest in it you can get very durable Termagants, who then stand around occupying space and being a pain the the butt. By spending your warlord trait and a CP, you can give two units Adaptive Physiology. You pick +1 to cover saves for both of them, give it to a pair of 30 man Termagant broods, and add in a Malanthrope. Now you have 60 fearless Termagants with a -1 to hit and a 4+ cover save.

    A small investment in Carnifexes (min battalion + 2-4 of them) will give you a handful of strong shooting platforms that compliment Ridgerunner builds. A heavy investment (Carnifexes + Termigants) will give you those strong shooting platforms, plus a back/midfield control.

    Devilgants are less a build and more of a tool that can be plugged into other builds or taken on their own. The core idea is to give a big block of Termagants devourers, deep strike them, and murder infantry. And when I say murder infantry, I mean see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women. Devilgants hit infantry targets HARD. They are also expensive, and don't do much more than scratch paint on non-infantry targets.

    You can run them in any Hive Fleet by using a Trygon as a delivery mechanism. The issue with that is that Trygons are expensive, frail, not synapse, and are a big enough threat that they will be blown off the table before they get to do anything. You can pay extra points to make the Trygon have synapse, but that doesn't fix any of the other issues.

    The better way to run devilgants is in a Jorgmundr detachment. Jorgmundr allows you to spend CP to use the much cheaper Raveners as your delivery mechanism, and you can put Infantry in them instead of just Troops, so you can bring synapse with you in the form of Neurothropes. Neurothropes are prefered because there is a Jorgmundr spell that lets you reroll hits vs a target unit if the shooting unit deep struck that turn. Depending on how many 'gants you take, the end result is something between 60 and 90 S4 shots, hitting on 4's, rerolling hits, rerolling 1's to wound, and able to double tap. One of my fondest memories in 40k was taking advantage of a positioning mistake and the double tap to use a 30 man devilgant brood to kill the entire loyal 32 in one shooting phase.

    If you want to go all out with it, you can add in a Malanthrope and spend a CP on an Adaptive to give them that -1 to hit and 4+ cover, then fill the battalion with a pair of Ripper squads. Or you can go the minimal route: Neurothrope + Raveners + Termagants as a patrol that plugs in as a third detachment.

    The downsides to Devilgants is that they are really good at killing the sort of horde infantry that isn't all that common right now, they are expensive (400 points for the patrol, going up from there) and they are CP intensive. If you run them you effectively dedicate 4 CP to them (two for putting units in deep strike, and two for double tapping). They are basically an excellent solution for a problem that doesn't exist right now.



    I find that Kronos works well in support of Acolyte/Neophyte builds. The extra shooting and on the board presence from the Hive Guard/Exocrines combined with the board control that Termagants provide is very useful. I'm planning on running 12 Hive Guard, Neurothrope + Malanthrope, and 60 Termagants plus my Saws and laser Neophytes once the local stores open up.

    I think that Carnifexes would work well with Ridgerunners, but I haven't reached my Ridgerunners in my painting stack yet, so I don't have any practical experience with it.

    The Warrior build I think works best in reverse: a Tyranid army supported by GSC. Devilgants are fun, but not really necessary.








    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/01 05:43:11


    Post by: Mellon


    Great guide. Thanks babelfish!


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/01 06:44:14


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    It's a really good breakdown too. I personally agree very much with everything he said. Maleceptor may be worth a mention for psychic and defense support especially when running a Warrior platoon. (Also probably worth including that Exocrines targeted with the spell get exploding hits on 5+'s because of their innate +1). Very good write up.


    Except for one part:
    babelfish wrote:



    Carnifexes can be kitted up to be very effective as short range medium S gun platforms. The standard build is twin pairs of Brainleach Devourers, Enhanced Senses, and Spore Banks. This gives 24 S6 1D shots, hitting on 3's, on reasonably cheap and durable platform with a built in -1 to hit. The normal Hive Fleet for them is Jormugandr, because the always in cover gives them a default 2+ vs shooting. None of the other Hive Fleets help all that much: their range is short enough that they rarely get the bonus from standing still from Kronos, and the rest are unhelpful to simply bad.


    As someone with 6x Dakkafexes who absolutely love them... I will say I heavily disagree with this. Jorm is one of the less bad choices for them, but honestly, anything other than Kraken on a Devourer Carniafex and you've made a mistake. They have 8" move and optional AG (an option you should strongly consider). They have 18" range. They have assault weaponry, and they are one of the few units in the dex who can get 3+ BS, allowing them to still hit on 4's after advancing, and one of the only units that doesn't have to hug a Malanthrope bubble if they want -1 to be shot at. They are meant to tear up the field as fast as possible (they run like Jetbikes in Kraken at consistent 13"-14" advances), and mow down screens or chip off damage anywhere and just get in the way. Great unit, but trying to slowly creep them up the board is a waste of everything they do well and you'd have just been better getting another Exocrine or two.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/01 06:51:54


    Post by: tneva82


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    On a different note, anyone have thoughts on what has been hinted at for 9th? I have mixed feelings myself at the moment. Improved terrain rules is good for us and vehicles being able to fire into combat is a big boon for our Goliath Trucks (Demo Cache is more attractive) and Rock Grinders (especially with clearance incinerators). Some tweaks to overwatch, falling out of combat, and charging will also be welcome as well. The new command point system I feel a bit mixed on. The current system is ok for us since we like our troops and tend to be CP hungry. If the starting number is significantly higher it could be good for us but time will tell. I am a bit concerned about reserves costing command points though. Depending on how many are available that change could be very problematic for mass ambush-style lists, since such lists are already very command point hungry as is.


    Couple points. a) tanks are said to be able to shoot FROM combat. Haven't heard them being able to shoot INTO combat. It's quite a difference and unlikely tanks(and monsters) gain ability to shoot into combat half a table away... b) reserve CP I very much doubt going into reserve with units that were free before costs CP in 9th ed. It sounds they want to INCREASE reserves. Making previously free ones cost CP would do opposite likely...

    I suspect the CP cost is stratagem that allows to put units outfanking that wouldn't be able anyway. And stratgems that gives you deep strike style is still valid as you wouldn't be restricted to coming from board edges(I suspect the 9th ed one restricts coming from table edge. At first sides and later to other side of board as well).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/01 12:41:33


    Post by: babelfish


     Nitro Zeus wrote:
    It's a really good breakdown too. I personally agree very much with everything he said. Maleceptor may be worth a mention for psychic and defense support especially when running a Warrior platoon. (Also probably worth including that Exocrines targeted with the spell get exploding hits on 5+'s because of their innate +1). Very good write up.


    Except for one part:
    Spoiler:

    babelfish wrote:



    Carnifexes can be kitted up to be very effective as short range medium S gun platforms. The standard build is twin pairs of Brainleach Devourers, Enhanced Senses, and Spore Banks. This gives 24 S6 1D shots, hitting on 3's, on reasonably cheap and durable platform with a built in -1 to hit. The normal Hive Fleet for them is Jormugandr, because the always in cover gives them a default 2+ vs shooting. None of the other Hive Fleets help all that much: their range is short enough that they rarely get the bonus from standing still from Kronos, and the rest are unhelpful to simply bad.


    As someone with 6x Dakkafexes who absolutely love them... I will say I heavily disagree with this. Jorm is one of the less bad choices for them, but honestly, anything other than Kraken on a Devourer Carniafex and you've made a mistake. They have 8" move and optional AG (an option you should strongly consider). They have 18" range. They have assault weaponry, and they are one of the few units in the dex who can get 3+ BS, allowing them to still hit on 4's after advancing, and one of the only units that doesn't have to hug a Malanthrope bubble if they want -1 to be shot at. They are meant to tear up the field as fast as possible (they run like Jetbikes in Kraken at consistent 13"-14" advances), and mow down screens or chip off damage anywhere and just get in the way. Great unit, but trying to slowly creep them up the board is a waste of everything they do well and you'd have just been better getting another Exocrine or two.


    Interesting. Now I'm going to lose at least 2 hours in battlescribe playing with fast Carnifex builds.

    I haven't really used Carnifexes this edition, mostly due to not getting enough chances to play to try out all the things I want to run. I can definitely see the argument for Kraken 'fexes.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/03 08:13:49


    Post by: Niiai


    I have asked this befire but after much searching on the internett I could not find the awnser.

    The vigulus relic is not free. Even if I upgrade a detacment and make a field commander, right?


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/03 08:37:47


    Post by: addnid


    I for one am more excited about 2 kraken acid tyranofexes with a 5++ (provided they can double shoot when engaged in close combat) than about carnifexes.
    Ever since the model came out, it has been half good half bad unit at best. Perhaps with 9th ed, the Day of Tyranofex has beckoned...


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/03 09:17:31


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


     addnid wrote:
    I for one am more excited about 2 kraken acid tyranofexes with a 5++ (provided they can double shoot when engaged in close combat) than about carnifexes.
    Ever since the model came out, it has been half good half bad unit at best. Perhaps with 9th ed, the Day of Tyranofex has beckoned...

    This was my first pick for a good unit to outflank as well. I think they are already better than they seem on paper, and I enjoy running them.

    But as babel said, I think they are best when you're going for T8 Saturation/Nidzilla style build. So probably more of a Tyranid tactic than a GSC one, in my opinion at least


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/03 09:21:42


    Post by: Niiai


    We are discussing favoret MC in the gsc thread witch is a bit odd.

    Anywah, do not dump on the tyranofex. It is nieche, but good:

    The flamer has been our best weapon vs flyers. It is good with slimet maggot stratgrm vs vehicels and with fearless screens it is quite dangerush.

    The rupture cannon comes out better then hiveguards and exoshrines vs T8. You rarly do not see it in all commers lists as hive guards and exoshrines are not far behind it vs T8, and they are better vs 2 wound primarises. T8 is something nids have a real problem with, so it has a function. Usualy GSC are also good at dealing with T8 so the rupture cannon tyranofex gets often blocked out.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/05 00:49:24


    Post by: babelfish


     Niiai wrote:
    We are discussing favoret MC in the gsc thread witch is a bit odd.

    Anywah, do not dump on the tyranofex. It is nieche, but good:

    The flamer has been our best weapon vs flyers. It is good with slimet maggot stratgrm vs vehicels and with fearless screens it is quite dangerush.

    The rupture cannon comes out better then hiveguards and exoshrines vs T8. You rarly do not see it in all commers lists as hive guards and exoshrines are not far behind it vs T8, and they are better vs 2 wound primarises. T8 is something nids have a real problem with, so it has a function. Usualy GSC are also good at dealing with T8 so the rupture cannon tyranofex gets often blocked out.



    I have to disagree with you.

    For pure Tyranids, the flamer-fex has its role, agreed. Depending on the details of how outflank works, I can see a flamerfex making sense as a ally to GSC, although GSC already tends to want lots of units in reserve and adding in another one might be tricky.

    For pure Tyranids, the cannon-fex just isn't good enough. A competent opponent will kill a monster a turn. One hit per cannon-fex for a few turns just isn't enough damage. Against Knights or similar, you can't kill enough before they die to be worth it. Against low T armies, the cannon-fex basically gets ignored. Exocrines and Hive Guard die at similar rates, but have utility against non-T8 targets. With Exocrines and Hive Guard you are less likely to get stuck playing against a list where the gun is wasted in the way a cannon-fex is when they don't bring anything tougher than a Rhino.

    GSC have a better option for the same job in the form of laser neophytes. A Tyranid list that feels like it lacks shooting vs T8 is better off looking at an allied GSC battalion than fixing it internally. A GSC list that is lacking T8 shooting should be taking Neophytes, not looking at Tyranofexes.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/05 08:28:56


    Post by: Niiai


    Yes I agree. In big parts because you just quoted what I said with more words.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/05 20:10:11


    Post by: Madjob


    Nexos or some other character better change to act as CP generation instead of recovery, because I have a hard time thinking of a CP thirstier army than GSC, and 12 +1/turn absolutely won't cut it.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/08 01:05:21


    Post by: Strat_N8


    @babblefish: As the others have said, very nice write-up. I took the liberty of linking to it beneath the section on Tyranid allies in the main post, but if you would like me to remove it I can do so.

    Niiai wrote:I have asked this befire but after much searching on the internett I could not find the awnser.

    The vigulus relic is not free. Even if I upgrade a detacment and make a field commander, right?


    Sorry for the late response to this. You are correct, the Vigilus relics act like all of the others in that the first one is free but if you want additional ones you will have to pay command points.

    For what it is worth, I'm not sure the Vigilus relics are as attractive as they used to be. The Vial of Grandsire's Blood lost a bit of its appeal with the nerfs to Mental Onslaught and the ability to get benefits similar to its once-per-game effect that last for the duration of the battle rather than one turn. The Blessed Sledgehammer is a bit more appealing with the nerf to the Abominant's hammer, but admittedly the main appeal for the Abominant currently is his relative durability more than his offensive potential so relics that lend themselves towards taking advantage of that are comparatively more useful.

    Madjob wrote:Nexos or some other character better change to act as CP generation instead of recovery, because I have a hard time thinking of a CP thirstier army than GSC, and 12 +1/turn absolutely won't cut it.


    I agree it is a potential concern, but admittedly most of my lists have been hovering around 14 CP to start with so for me the new system (based on what limited data we have so far) is somewhat of a wash. I do think the +1 per turn should be a net boon though, since in some regards it can be viewed as a "discount" for stratagems that see repeated use (Perfect Ambush, Lying in Wait, Chilling Efficiency) and anything after turn 3 is just an added bonus. I also don't anticipate that the current limitations on CP regeneration will be making the transition to 9th with the new +1 per turn rule, which should be a good buff to the Nexus's ability to fuel stratagem usage.

    Also I suppose if nothing else 3000 points might become the new 2000 for tournament play given it has been mentioned that points will be going up. At that point,18 CP is fairly close to the high-end ceiling of potential starting CP currently possible at 2000 while remaining viable (roughly equal to a brigade + battalion).


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/08 12:05:53


    Post by: Madjob


     Strat_N8 wrote:

    Madjob wrote:Nexos or some other character better change to act as CP generation instead of recovery, because I have a hard time thinking of a CP thirstier army than GSC, and 12 +1/turn absolutely won't cut it.


    I agree it is a potential concern, but admittedly most of my lists have been hovering around 14 CP to start with so for me the new system (based on what limited data we have so far) is somewhat of a wash. I do think the +1 per turn should be a net boon though, since in some regards it can be viewed as a "discount" for stratagems that see repeated use (Perfect Ambush, Lying in Wait, Chilling Efficiency) and anything after turn 3 is just an added bonus. I also don't anticipate that the current limitations on CP regeneration will be making the transition to 9th with the new +1 per turn rule, which should be a good buff to the Nexus's ability to fuel stratagem usage.

    Also I suppose if nothing else 3000 points might become the new 2000 for tournament play given it has been mentioned that points will be going up. At that point,18 CP is fairly close to the high-end ceiling of potential starting CP currently possible at 2000 while remaining viable (roughly equal to a brigade + battalion).


    After pre-game spending, right?

    The cost on our bread and butter strats is a big concern for me, you mentioned them but it bears repeating because frankly our army is designed around Lying in Wait and Perfect Ambush. Without them, it barely functions, which is why we're viewed as something of a glass cannon army - if we don't get the initial impact we need, we peter out quickly. A second concern is detachments - besides the issues with the limitations on our Characters (something I'm personally hoping they have the forethought to do away with via errata), our Elites are absolutely bloated, making multiple detachments a requirement for a lot of lists even ignoring CP.

    I can also only hope they won't saddle GSC with the same CP burden on putting units into reserve, whatever that looks like - all we know is that CP is involved in it. With every <Cult> unit in our army being able to enter reserve, and indeed being designed around their ability to do so, there must be some sort of special consideration made.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 00:48:10


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Madjob wrote:

    After pre-game spending, right?


    Surprisingly, no. My current list doesn't really have much to spend CP on early game. There generally isn't a Patriarch to allow an Alphus to be the Warlord (she is one of the most defensible options, since she wants to hang back and buff things) and I can generally make do with one relic. I will sometimes use They Came From Below and Sensor Decoys to open up more options, but otherwise I don't generally start spending much until turn 2-3. Part of the reason I can do this is admittedly a huge amount of Fast Attack. I have three squads of 8 Jackals + 2 Wolfquads (shotguns, incinerators or mining lasers) and two squadrons of 3 Ridgerunners with 1-2 Alphus to provide to-hit bonuses. The remaining units are either set in ambush or ride in Goliath Trucks depending on what archetype I'm going with.

    Now before my mass ambush lists generally would start with 5-6 CP spent on pre-game things, but I haven't been using that archetype as much because it has had trouble with my local meta (too many Infiltrators and anti-deepstrike builds) and the last edition of Chapter Approved was rather unkind to my preferred "bomb" units.

    Madjob wrote:
    A second concern is detachments - besides the issues with the limitations on our Characters (something I'm personally hoping they have the forethought to do away with via errata), our Elites are absolutely bloated, making multiple detachments a requirement for a lot of lists even ignoring CP.


    I agree I hope they will errata something for the characters. I can understand limiting the important leadership characters, but it would be nice to be able to take multiples of lesser characters. I haven't noticed as much trouble with the Elites, though admittedly they have twice as many slots as the Fast or Heavy slots.

    For what it is worth I think we will be fine taking a Brigade as our free detachment. Our troops and HQs are generally our favorite things anyway and our Fast Attack and Elite options are fairly solid. Worst slot is oddly the Heavy Support, though at least we can fill it cheaply with weapon teams.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 01:12:59


    Post by: Khorzain


    GSC is in an odd spot. The army was originally designed around being able to deep-strike turn 1 — our last codex helped us somewhat adjust, but with all the changes, it feels like GSC is really struggling to function as a standalone faction. It seems like one of the few armies that is entirely reliant on strategems to set it up, unless you heavily soup.

    We typically always take more than 1 detachment because of the character limitations and because our Cult Creeds greatly favor certain units over others.

    Now we have to pay CP to deep strike, pay CP to soup, and pay CP to take multiple detachments?

    I know things greatly change between editions, but I have to hope that GW is going to give Genestealer Cults special rules for 9th — because I have no idea how to build a mono-GSC list with these new restrictions. I'm anxious to see how the rest of the new stuff will affect us.



    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 05:58:13


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    Not saying I disagree, but just correcting that you won't have to pay CP to Deepstrike. The CP is for units who don't have a natural DS.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 07:21:01


    Post by: Niiai


    As of yet we so not know enough about 9th edotion to conclude anything. And speculations are to hard without more information to be of any use.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 07:48:19


    Post by: tneva82


    Figuring out natural reserves don't cost CP is easy enough seeing they aren't increasing CP a lot(many will have less) and are saying reserves will be used more than before


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 09:04:30


    Post by: addnid


    I have hopes that my 4 goliath trucks will be the key to "9th ed" GSC, at least before codex drops and it's back to DS shenanigans (4*10 transport capacity is not too shabby if armies are reduced, and if aberrants aren't as overpriced as post CA then transporting instead of DSing could work !)
    Love the lore, the minis, but the gameplay got really tedious after a while...

    So I for one am happy if what worked during 8th for GSCs no longer works for 9th.

    Of course perhaps the army won't work at all before codex drops, who knows... I don't think it is an army which is high on GW's priority list, at all. Now that doesn't mean GSC can't be good start of 9th


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/09 22:21:40


    Post by: Madjob


     addnid wrote:
    I have hopes that my 4 goliath trucks will be the key to "9th ed" GSC, at least before codex drops and it's back to DS shenanigans (4*10 transport capacity is not too shabby if armies are reduced, and if aberrants aren't as overpriced as post CA then transporting instead of DSing could work !)
    Love the lore, the minis, but the gameplay got really tedious after a while...

    So I for one am happy if what worked during 8th for GSCs no longer works for 9th.

    Of course perhaps the army won't work at all before codex drops, who knows... I don't think it is an army which is high on GW's priority list, at all. Now that doesn't mean GSC can't be good start of 9th


    Their twin autocannons certainly look a lot more attractive now with the Heavy penalty removed.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/17 16:39:15


    Post by: Madjob


    Today's overwatch news probably the best 9th edition news for GSC - with our paper toughness, losing a good chunk of a turn 2 punch before it could do anything to mass Overwatch often ended games. Now our opponents have to choose against a mass of charges which one is worth spending the stratagem on... And that's after we've turned off 1-2 units from being able to.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/18 08:47:12


    Post by: addnid


    Madjob wrote:
    Today's overwatch news probably the best 9th edition news for GSC - with our paper toughness, losing a good chunk of a turn 2 punch before it could do anything to mass Overwatch often ended games. Now our opponents have to choose against a mass of charges which one is worth spending the stratagem on... And that's after we've turned off 1-2 units from being able to.


    I was thinking the same ! Also as you mentioned twin ACs on goliath trucks will help us a lot too


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/18 09:05:23


    Post by: Nitro Zeus


    lower point levels without losing CP is also a good thing for this faction too imo


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/25 11:47:21


    Post by: mikethefish


    I feel as though the new Morale rules will help us a bit. GSC has no problem playing MSU style, which seems to be favored with the new Attrition rules.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/25 12:49:11


    Post by: Niiai


    Can you explain how the new attrition rules benefits GSC? I have a hard time seing it.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/25 13:46:33


    Post by: mikethefish


     Niiai wrote:
    Can you explain how the new attrition rules benefits GSC? I have a hard time seing it.


    Because, outside of huge Neophyte mobs or whatever, our units will only loose like 1-2 models, rather than wiping our whole units.


    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/30 02:15:34


    Post by: Khorzain




    What they've shown is just the first two paragraphs of our current Brood Brother rules. We'll have to wait and see if anything actually changes for the full rules.

    They mention "the ability to flexibly add Astra Militarum and a large number of units in a single detachment", but didn't actually show anything to support that statement — so we don't know if they're talking about the current "Cult" units in our codex like the Leman Russ and Sentinels — or if they've decided to let us use other Astra Militarum units in a Genestealer Cult detachment.





    Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascension draws near! @ 2020/06/30 03:09:53


    Post by: Madjob


    "Mike: First off, army building is a bit easier for the Genestealer Cults. The ability to flexibly add Astra Militarum and a large number of units (both big and small) within a single Detachment is a huge advantage since it guarantees you the full 12 starting Command points."

    Yea it could possibly be interpreted to mean that IG codex units can be freely added to a Genestealer Cults detachment, not just the Brood Brother units which are included in the GSC codex. But then, the very next statement is about how we can afford to bring additional detachments thanks to Nexos regeneration + 1CP/turn from the new rules, though they don't mention IG units again in that context but rather GSC stuff.

    Having the entire IG codex sans special characters available in a single detachment + our codex options too would be pretty great.