NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Loving those hero models, but loath the Siege-Breakers which mark the return of skipped-leg-day-Ogres. I though those days were behind us... :-(
My guess is that the siegebreakers are not entirely new models, but rather an upgrade kit like the Ogre command kit.
I agree... but that kit is dire, and urgently needs replacing, not expansions. :-p Mantic's modeling is growing by leaps, but the base kit of the Ogres is just awful. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Loving those hero models, but loath the Siege-Breakers which mark the return of skipped-leg-day-Ogres. I though those days were behind us... :-(
My guess is that the siegebreakers are not entirely new models, but rather an upgrade kit like the Ogre command kit.
I agree... but that kit is dire, and urgently needs replacing, not expansions. :-p Mantic's modeling is growing by leaps, but the base kit of the Ogres is just awful. :-p
Yea, I was gonna say, the tiny legged Ogres never left man
And +1 to the same face comment, I noticed that too and then couldn't unsee it
That's a bit of a bummer coming off the really nice Abyssal and Northern Alliance releases.
Plus the new goblins and rats look great. Why are we going back to the old kits? Upgrade parts are a lame stop gap.
Why not just fund a new 3 man ogre sprue that includes two handed weapons and shield breaker bits? Start it as a vanguard unit and scale up to bigger armies accordingly.
I'm really torn about which upcoming plastic Gobbos I like, the Mantic Goblins, or the Shieldwolf Forest Goblins. It could go either way. Originally I wanted to do a Savage Orcs and Goblins army of GW Savage Orcs and SW Forest Goblins, but the improvements Mantic is making in their Goblins are really starting to look good.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That's a bit of a bummer coming off the really nice Abyssal and Northern Alliance releases.
Plus the new goblins and rats look great. Why are we going back to the old kits? Upgrade parts are a lame stop gap.
Why not just fund a new 3 man ogre sprue that includes two handed weapons and shield breaker bits? Start it as a vanguard unit and scale up to bigger armies accordingly.
They really got it right with the Abyssal Dwarfs.
Because there's a massive difference between the cost of those two options. Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
They could still use PVC for the larger models (the one they use on the latest stuff is fine) but just update those sculpts as we have seen with several models that they can make better Ogres
kodos wrote: They could still use PVC for the larger models (the one they use on the latest stuff is fine) but just update those sculpts as we have seen with several models that they can make better Ogres
Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
AegisGrimm wrote: I'm really torn about which upcoming plastic Gobbos I like, the Mantic Goblins, or the Shieldwolf Forest Goblins. It could go either way. Originally I wanted to do a Savage Orcs and Goblins army of GW Savage Orcs and SW Forest Goblins, but the improvements Mantic is making in their Goblins are really starting to look good.
I really like SW Savage Orcs, and got to play a dude last year with an entire SW (+ Mierce) army. Probably my favorite greenskin army I've seen (game shots in this folder). Some weird toothy faces in there but I think the raw ferocious overall tone really works for massed infantry.
That said, I also dig Mantic's Orc line, think it's one of my favorites of theirs.
EDIT: Speaking of Orcs, y'all see the list that won the US Masters in February? Erich Trowbridge ran this pure machine of an army:
Army: Orcs Points: 2300 Unit Count: 19 Unit Strength: 28
I watched it absolutely dismantle a quad-dragon zombie-spam Undead list, there was next to nothing the Undead player could do and he knew it. Unreal. (And gratifying, Trowbridge was my dark horse pick for Master )
kodos wrote: They could still use PVC for the larger models (the one they use on the latest stuff is fine) but just update those sculpts as we have seen with several models that they can make better Ogres
Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
for sure HIPS is out of Mantics price point and Resin will be to expensive for the costumers, so PVC is fine
and the questions is also if the investment is worth it, how many people are not buying them now because of the outdated core and how much more are going to buy it after an update
Because there's a massive difference between the cost of those two options. Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
Which makes me wonder, once again after all these years, why they decided to throw all that money at such a joke of a design in the first place. There's such a thing as 'learning the hard way', but sheesh.
They were at a nexus, a crossroads of history. In one branch of time, Games Workshop rose again: in the other Warmahordes bestrode the dead colossus. The scryers of Mantic could not flern the true future, and tried to pave a golden path between the lashing tongues of destiny. This, the ogre, a proxy for a Games Workshop faction with the physical sensibility of a Warmachine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flern? I wrote “glean”
For however expensive plastic tooling can be, I'd like to "flern" how they managed to put out some really solid options for core infantry choices for a few armies since 3E started.
Basileans, Nightstalkers, Northmen, Abyssal Dwarfs, and Goblins soon to follow. Most allowing for more than one troop type as well.
I agree the shield breakers could just be a stop gap, and it would make sense to use up whatever remaining stock they have.
TBH I think the Siege Breaker kit is a bit (ok, a lot) of a let down compared to the unit background.
I was hoping for bigger hammers, and shields more akin to mantlets, more in keeping with the design of the Dwarf sharpshooter or bulwarker shields. If I can find a fairly straight forward way to make hammers I'll give it a miss and make my own.
(Also looks like someone just slapped some rejected Chaos Warrior shields on the normal Mantic ogres).
kodos wrote: They could still use PVC for the larger models (the one they use on the latest stuff is fine) but just update those sculpts as we have seen with several models that they can make better Ogres
Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
for sure HIPS is out of Mantics price point and Resin will be to expensive for the costumers, so PVC is fine
and the questions is also if the investment is worth it, how many people are not buying them now because of the outdated core and how much more are going to buy it after an update
You seem to be equating the cost of resin tooling with the cost of plastic tooling.
Once again, plastic (of any kind) is much more expensive to get tooled.
kodos wrote: They could still use PVC for the larger models (the one they use on the latest stuff is fine) but just update those sculpts as we have seen with several models that they can make better Ogres
Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
for sure HIPS is out of Mantics price point and Resin will be to expensive for the costumers, so PVC is fine
and the questions is also if the investment is worth it, how many people are not buying them now because of the outdated core and how much more are going to buy it after an update
You seem to be equating the cost of resin tooling with the cost of plastic tooling.
Once again, plastic (of any kind) is much more expensive to get tooled.
but cheaper in the long term
different materials offer different possibilities, PVC is not as expensive as HIPS in tooling and allows for different models (that are more similar to Resin or Metal) while Resin is the cheapest in tooling if you have a low amount of models.
the more you produce the more expensive it will get, same with Metal
PVC is kind of in the middle, the tooling costs more than for Resin or Metal, but the forms last longer and the material is cheaper, while it is not as expensive as HIPS.
so of course doing the Ogres again will be expensive and without knowing how much of the old stuff is still on stock and how much they expect to sell in future we cannot know if it is worth it or not.
but I guess it will be never worth to use HIPS
kodos wrote: They could still use PVC for the larger models (the one they use on the latest stuff is fine) but just update those sculpts as we have seen with several models that they can make better Ogres
Plastic remains incredibly expensive to start to produce.
for sure HIPS is out of Mantics price point and Resin will be to expensive for the costumers, so PVC is fine
and the questions is also if the investment is worth it, how many people are not buying them now because of the outdated core and how much more are going to buy it after an update
You seem to be equating the cost of resin tooling with the cost of plastic tooling.
Once again, plastic (of any kind) is much more expensive to get tooled.
but cheaper in the long term
different materials offer different possibilities, PVC is not as expensive as HIPS in tooling and allows for different models (that are more similar to Resin or Metal) while Resin is the cheapest in tooling if you have a low amount of models.
the more you produce the more expensive it will get, same with Metal
PVC is kind of in the middle, the tooling costs more than for Resin or Metal, but the forms last longer and the material is cheaper, while it is not as expensive as HIPS.
so of course doing the Ogres again will be expensive and without knowing how much of the old stuff is still on stock and how much they expect to sell in future we cannot know if it is worth it or not.
but I guess it will be never worth to use HIPS
But with that, you can't just go "Well if they can do resin, just do PVC instead?". You can't simply assume that a budget that covers one will cover the other.
But with that, you can't just go "Well if they can do resin, just do PVC instead?". You can't simply assume that a budget that covers one will cover the other.
if there is a budget and a demand to get Resin or Metal single Models/Heroes for Vanguard/KoW there should be a budget to do a basic Core unit set, from whom you need much more models so Resin/Metal is out anyway, from PVC.
if they can do Resin but not PVC would also mean that they don't expect to sell a lot of those models, which is reasonable for Heroes but not for Troops.
this of course also depends on the molds Mantic have, as if there dedicated ones for the body and weapon makes a huge difference as if they have done one mold per unit type.
but we have seen similar stuff with the other factions as well, a Vanguard Box with new Heroes and old Troops, upgrades for existing Troops and after a while new Troop models to be more in line with the new style/possibilities
So new Ogres would be ~6 months after release of the new heroes, but I still say that adding new Troops sooner than later would be the better option
If you expect to sell tens of a mini, make it in resin. Low mould cost, high production cost in materials and labour, Resin can be made inhouse or to order with relatively quick turnaround. Needs frequent new moulds as every few dozen casts often wears out a mould.
If you expect to sell hundreds of a mini, make it in PVC or metal. middling mould cost, middling production cost. PVC is cheaper but takes more time, as it usually is made in China, Metal can be made in house or to order with relatively quick turnaround, lower mould cost than pvc but the metal material is quite expensive.
If you expect to sell thousands of a mini, make it in polystyrene HIPS Very High mould cost, very low production cost. Takes time, usually made in China or a long wait list with domestic manufacturing.
...Obviously, Mantic does not really expect to sell thousands of these models in a short enough time to cover the upfront HIPS moulding costs.
If you expect to sell tens of a mini, make it in resin. Low mould cost, high production cost in materials and labour, Resin can be made inhouse or to order with relatively quick turnaround. Needs frequent new moulds as every few dozen casts often wears out a mould.
If you expect to sell hundreds of a mini, make it in PVC or metal. middling mould cost, middling production cost. PVC is cheaper but takes more time, as it usually is made in China, Metal can be made in house or to order with relatively quick turnaround, lower mould cost than pvc but the metal material is quite expensive.
If you expect to sell thousands of a mini, make it in polystyrene HIPS Very High mould cost, very low production cost. Takes time, usually made in China or a long wait list with domestic manufacturing.
...Obviously, Mantic does not really expect to sell thousands of these models in a short enough time to cover the upfront HIPS moulding costs.
Almost accurate. You need to bump PVC up to HIPS in terms of numbers...sort of. Resin, Metal, PVC, the HIPS, in that order, not overlapping.
But with that, you can't just go "Well if they can do resin, just do PVC instead?". You can't simply assume that a budget that covers one will cover the other.
if there is a budget and a demand to get Resin or Metal single Models/Heroes for Vanguard/KoW there should be a budget to do a basic Core unit set, from whom you need much more models so Resin/Metal is out anyway, from PVC.
And again, you're making the same assumption. If you can do resin, then you must also be able to do PVC. It's simply not true.
Hey - quick question. Are the new plastic Abyssal Dwarves from a KS, or did they go straight to retail? I'm trying to work out if I should have a few sprues of them somewhere...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also.
What's a {resin) Mobile Katsuchan? I can't find a pic of it anywhere, including on Mantic's own site...
Azazelx wrote: Hey - quick question. Are the new plastic Abyssal Dwarves from a KS, or did they go straight to retail? I'm trying to work out if I should have a few sprues of them somewhere...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also.
What's a {resin) Mobile Katsuchan? I can't find a pic of it anywhere, including on Mantic's own site...
HIPS Abyssal Dwarfs are straight to retail not a KS product
Open Day videos and some screencaps. Ronnie very briefly showed a prototype plastic Ratkin. They strongly hinted at a 2 player starter featuring Goblins versus Ratkin. From the artwork it looks like the Veer Myn Nightmares and Night Terror will be available to the Ratkin
DaveC wrote: Open Day videos and some screencaps. Ronnie very briefly showed a prototype plastic Ratkin. They strongly hinted at a 2 player starter featuring Goblins versus Ratkin. From the artwork it looks like the Veer Myn Nightmares and Night Terror will be available to the Ratkin
Considering Nightmares and the Night Terror are in the current Ratkin list in Uncharted Empires, I’d say there’s a pretty good chance they’ll be available...
And I LOVE those Soulflayers! Looks like somebody was inspired by the art-of-the-possible that GW has demonstrated with “spectral” models...
The Dreadfiend is pretty neat. Looks like some sort of alien life form you could encounter in Deadzone or Star Saga.
At first I thought the Soulflayers were just riding spectral horses... then I looked a bit closer. Very cool and disturbing! Heck, you could probably get away with using them as some sort of chaos steed if you painted them in more mortal colors.
I wonder if the Veer Myn stuff is a straight 1:1 switch to fantasy or if they'll make any optional parts for them?
And in other news, the french version of Kings of War V3 will finally be there since the crowdfunding for it ended today with a success to fund it. It's not up to Mantic kickstarter standard, but it's still 42000 € for "just a book".
Good news for the french community, giving hope for a renewal for them after quite a lot of silence from the french distributor !
Thrilled to finally see the Souflayers and Dread Fiend in the flesh! And a Gobs vs Rats starter is just asking to be bought in multiple and half-traded with a rival horde general
Hope you’re all staying safe and healthy. Although the UK is starting to very slowly come out of the lockdown, it’ll be some time before we can get back to gaming as usual at stores or clubs. On the plus side, it gives us more time to finish off those lockdown hobby projects that we haven’t quite managed to complete. I’ve really appreciated the time to get some hobbying done and I hope you’ve been kept busy too. Even my two boys have caught the hobby bug… although it could just be an excuse to avoid homeschooling.
During the Virtual Open Day (a reminder of all the exciting announcements can be found below), I mentioned that I wanted to make sure we said thank you to all the keyworkers around the world that have been working tirelessly since the outbreak. It can’t have been easy working in some very difficult conditions and during the pandemic, we’ve come to rely on your incredible work more than ever. We've already offered free rules (check the free rules section) and discounted solo play games but I wanted to do something more.
As a thank you I wanted to offer a discount code for the Mantic website. I genuinely believe hobbying has a part to play in keeping people entertained and engaged in these strange times. Having some extra miniatures to paint or a rulebook to peruse while in lockdown, helps to take our minds off the reality of what’s happening in the world at the moment. Giving us our own safe space to relax. So, a discount code to help pick up a few more hobby products is our way of saying thank you.
When we started to look at the list of keyworkers we wanted to say thank you to, the list quickly started to grow very large. Whether you’re a health worker, police officer, retail worker, delivery driver, garbage collector, postal worker, teacher, etc., we really wanted to thank you all. Then you’ve got the parents probably tearing their hair out at home while homeschooling or the people living on their own in need of some entertainment. Plus, the people who really just want the anticipation of that exciting delivery coming to keep them going through some difficult days.
It soon became clear that we wanted to thank everyone – particularly those who have supported Mantic during the outbreak and ensured that we can keep trading (all be it with a reduced staff). So that means we’re extending the thank you code to you all!
Seriously, watching your hobby updates throughout the outbreak has really put a smile on our faces and helped us get through some of the darker days. Meanwhile, the community atmosphere of the Virtual Open Day on Saturday was a great reminder of what superb fans we have. And I can’t wait to hang out with you again.
So, until the end of May, you can use the code ‘THANKYOU’ on the Mantic website to get 15% off your order. *The code can only be used on Mantic products and can’t be used on products that are already on sale. And we’re keeping the free shipping minimum spend at just £25/€30/$50 during this period too.
Thanks again for all your support during the outbreak, it means a lot to everyone here at Mantic.
Run out of models to paint? Not even started but can’t admit it to anyone? Want to actually play some games?
We are looking to add to a playtesting group for something exciting we have in the pipeline (not a clue). We are looking for people who can commit to gaming, and have the time to play some test games using the Vassal platform. In this time of social distancing, playtesting is moving online!
If you are interested you need to:
- be able to play at least one game per week
- provide constructive and thorough feedback
- be on Facebook so you can join the playtest group page (well you're reading this so hopefully that's an easy one)
- have experience of Mantic games, especially those set in Pannithor, and preferably a good solid background in gaming in general
If selected, you will need to sign an NDA before any details of the project will be revealed.
If you would like to be considered, please submit a brief application to playtestfeedback@manticgames.com detailing your credentials and worthiness by Friday, May 22nd.
what I could think of, is that Mantic just changed plans for the summer campaign because of CoV19 and now want to bring a different book first that was meant to come next year
or this is something for the very future and is about the next expension after CoK21
£40 seems rather steep to me though. Could be huge though. Difficult to tell from the pic on my tablet.
Edit: Wierd. I'm sure it said £39.99 when I went to the page, it's now £29.99
Certainly a better price. Wonder if there was a typo when it went up. Or I could just be losing my marbles.
The Battle for Ravenswood! Kings of War Big Battle!
Ronnie's Big Kings of War Battle is here. It's Ronnie as the brave dwarfs, joined by Duncan's heroic Northern Alliance against Rob's cunning goblins and Martin's wicked Abyssal Dwarfs
(YT Live-Stream)
Having googled Ravenwood, it seems to be a very common place name, and even the name of a prominent Indiana Jones character. It’s fairly generic. I assume both companies chose the name due to the associations between ravens and death/carrion/war. The more surprising use to me was the Ravenwood Senior Living Center. Now that’s some bad juju.
Well, my OCD compels me to add that the circle’s really not complete without Wrath of War’s Wood of Battleravens or King of Kings Ravens of Battlewood.
Ogres are supposed to be end of June and the new Goblin Warband (reboxed with the new HIPS Goblins) end of July but how much that’s slipped due to Covid 19?
I've said before that Mantic should make a HIPS Ogre regiment its top priority, since it's already the most beginner friendly army in terms of model count (and dare I say, painting) it would make sense to make it in the best material and have it be the default beginner army, plus one sprue could service almost all the units.
Uncharted Seas was just plain bad tho. Plus it didn't help that Spartan had massive ADHD and basically let the game in limbo for years while they jumped to Firestorm Armada and then Dystopian Wars.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just hope the new game is in HIPS and not resin.
If it's in plastic and done decently it could be a hit. It's one area GW is unlikely to go for a while so they can establish themselves in it and naval games can be fun. But plastic and a decent range are going to be important. Ships with mechanical claws and steam rollers seems a poor direction to me.
Depends of the size this naval game wants to reach, but I hightly doubt the miniatures will be in plastic. My bet is more on resin or metal.
The orc ship is a bit weird...I don't like the mechanical arm, I don't see why Pannithor orcs would be that advanced since they never were described as such. If it was a goblin ship, maybe...still makes a bit too 40kIMHO.
Nice! Rules should be tight as well, because Mantic. Looking forward to finally rocking a fantasy naval game, MOW was on its way out / invisible to 11-year old me when I started this hobby, tried jumping on the recent-ish offerings but they sorta fizzled or didn't appeal enough to my clubmates.
At least this one should have nice tight rules like others mentioned.
I'm not interested in fantasy naval combat, but I'll always cheer for good game design, as it really helps create people who stay in the hobby for the long run.
That Orc ship looks a little steampunk to me - maybe the game and ships may have that sort of flavor, even if it does not fit within the Mantic KOW world. Let's see what happens, but it is not for me, even though I am always interested in what Mantic does and have many of their armies.
There's plenty of steampunk in KoW now, especially after KoW: Vanguard added new Dwarf and Abyssal Dwarf warbands, and the Dwarfs already had the Steel Behemoth.
My question are, will a fantasy naval battle game sell in today's market? And more importantly for Mantic itself, will their version of a fantasy naval battle game sell?
kodos wrote: the ships well into the KoW world, just that the Steampunk elements are at the moment for Goblins and Halflings only
Dwarfs are always more "mechanic" in all Fantasy Settings (even the LotR Dwarfs)
if a game will sell is a good questions
one thing about the smaller Mantic Games is that those are between Boardgames and Wargames, therefore have a niche market for those who want more of a boardgame but don't want to get into a full tabletop
and ship games are coming, Warlord has 2 historical ones.
so if it is more like Pirates of the Spanish main and gets fast games on the kitchen table there is a market for it
DaveC wrote: Confirmed to be straight to retail no Kickstarter
2020 truly is the end time, then.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: Uncharted Seas was just plain bad tho. Plus it didn't help that Spartan had massive ADHD and basically let the game in limbo for years while they jumped to Firestorm Armada and then Dystopian Wars.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just hope the new game is in HIPS and not resin.
I’ll grant the ADHD assessment. However, Uncharted Seas was a decent enough game rules and models-wise.
They did out-GW everyone by effectively making a 1.5 edition that greatly changed LOS rules within 12-18 months of launching, though.
I’ll grant the ADHD assessment. However, Uncharted Seas was a decent enough game rules and models-wise.
They did out-GW everyone by effectively making a 1.5 edition that greatly changed LOS rules within 12-18 months of launching, though.
I don't want to gak on the game, let's just say it was deep into the beer and pretzels end of the spectrum.
Spartan is for sure the record holder for edition changes tho. With all 3 games being virtually the same ruleset, they effectively sold us like 10 versions of it in the span of 2 years.
While mechanical grapple arms in naval warfare are fictional, the Romans did use a boarding bridge with a spike to fasten it to the target vessel's deck, the corvus. The same article links to the Harpax which is a ballista fired grapnel which allowed the target to be winched toward the firing vessel. The harpax is lighter and apparently more effective than the corvus. So there is historical precedent for some odd devices which could be used in a fantasy naval wargame.
Although one of the weirdest devices was built in WW2 to breach the Normandy fortifications. The prototype failed dramatically. Gentlemen, I present to you, the Panjandrum! Ironically, it fits the goblin mentality perfectly!
VBS wrote: The "journal" page is quite entertaining Very mantic-style. I'm not a fan of mechanic arms on boats though.
If it's some light boardgame/wargame that plays fast and fun, it'll be worth a shot. Something refreshing compared to the usual big armies stuff.
lord_blackfang wrote: Metal upgrades for Ogre Warriors does not inspire confidence in Mantic's material selection...
I truly wish they would stop investing in things built off the foundation of the Ogre Warriors. They're a terrible, ugly, kit and replacing them would do much more for the Ogre line, considering Braves, etc... look good.
I keep saying they should go HIPS with Ogres. It would cover a lot of units as they're all based on the same bodies, and turn them into the perfect beginner army, easy to collect, build, paint and play.
Going HIPS on ogres won't stop the metal upgrades. See what they're doing with northern alliance clanmen - there are metal upgrades for bows and two handed weapons. There is a limit to what they can put in the box for the price.
Face it, Mantic Games doesn't have the ressources of GW. That's the reason why they keep recycling old ugly miniatures ; because it's cheaper for them that way.
kodos wrote: I am sure they will sooner or later as Ronnie said once that their goal is to move all core units to HIPS
questions is just how soon they have the money and capacity to do it
And, of course, when every other faction has models. Unless a faction only has absolutely dire models (original MAA) there's more to be made in making a new kit than remaking an old one. If you remake an old kit, how do you convince existing players to replace their models?
sukura636 wrote: -snip- If you remake an old kit, how do you convince existing players to replace their models?
You make sure the new kit looks so much better than the replaced kit that they buy it anyway.
GW has had no problem getting players to do just that with nearly every new kit they've put out for years.
GW is 200 times Mantic's size. And there's always those who'll just not replace their perfectly serviceable models. You might notice that's why GW tend to make new units rather than replace existing plastics a lot. Replacing an old metal kit? Sure. HIPS? Bad idea.
Not against metal per se, but Mantic metal is garbage. The metal spears of the Dwarf Bulwarkers are so brittle they snap instead of bending, and you need to bend them to fit the arms to the plastic bodies as the casting is of both arms holding the spear two handed. Similarly, the Empire of Dust High Priest has a staff so thin it snapped as soon as it was glued in place. Based on my experiences, I won't be buying the Northern Alliance Pack Hunters with their metal bows; I'll go 3rd party. (Have bought some ASOIAF Wildings already.) Similarly, if the ships are resin + metal, I'm out too.
Quality control aside, then there's the pain of metal/plastic joins. Even with super glue they don't bond easily or well, and assembly takes longer than with plastic because of that.
Voss wrote: So, Mantic really is on the Spartan ship these days.
Forging out ahead to rehaul more old games that they'll never finish
maybe
another reason would be that Mantic is going for a game were they have control of the models and can produce it themselves instead of ordering from China
asked them, was told that there is no metal on the ship and a lot of Resin is used
so not sure of we see Resin sails/masts as well or if they are from a different material
TBH, my intervention about resin ships and pewter masts was more a reference to the Uncharted Seas miniatures. In truth, I don't know at all what Mantic will do. Nowadays, with what they're using as resin on their KoW miniatures, I can see masts in resin as well. It depends of the scale of the ships, though.
I guess we'll have a few more teasers before the game will be finally revealed.
Making a naval game for their KoW universe opens a few doors for linked campaigns, I must say I'm interested to see what they will do with this. Even if it's pretty clear that it is focused on Basileans vs Orcs for the core.
Oh man, I'm excited. I have so many Man o War ships, and any new ruleset that's fantasy will get me to dive in deep. I also have (too many) Oak and Iron and Black Seas ships...
Scuttle is that Mantic is using Warlord's fleet rules for this - I know nothing about Warlord's rules, like if there's one set of naval rules for their various settings or what, but it seems like a fine pedigree in general.
Huh. Very interesting. They just released Victory at Sea, which is WWII, so I'm assuming it wouldn't be this rule set...!
But maybe Black Seas (sailing wargame in the Napoleonic era, with 1/700 scale ships)? Over at the Black Seas Facebook group, the designer had expressed interest in doing a fantasy version, but that was way down the line. Black Seas has some excellent models, but I haven't played the game.
And Black Seas just released a "fantasy" box of sea monsters. I've picked it up (as any self respecting fan of Tall Ships and Fantasy would) but still haven't been able to get the game to the table....
there is the thing that Ronnie once said he won't to a Ship game on their own but would like the buy a licence for the rules and X-Wing is his favourite but of range/price
now that Warlord has a nice historical game, a fantasy version would be a logic step and 1/700 a nice scale for Resin Ships (as Warlord has shown)
Quick, you younger, tech savvy folks: tweet at Mantic and tell them to not do metal masts!!
As a younger, tech savvy folk, I know not to react to rumour (beyond comment) and that if this game does feature ships built like that - the decision was already made a while ago.
Black Seas is pretty good, apart from the brit fanwank. But maybe a tad too streamlined to allow much design space to differentiate fantasy races and their crazy tech.
Not an expert on ships but I'd assume building a ship of that size out of just wood rope and canvas would not end well. Maybe there is a fantasy material used in place of metal?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Not an expert on ships but I'd assume building a ship of that size out of just wood rope and canvas would not end well. Maybe there is a fantasy material used in place of metal?
Wraistic? Not as easy to work with as Ectoplastic or as detailed as Wraithsin, but oh so affordable.
lord_blackfang wrote: Black Seas is pretty good, apart from the brit fanwank. But maybe a tad too streamlined to allow much design space to differentiate fantasy races and their crazy tech.
well we did rule the waves
* well except for
When we tried our own Armada against the Spanish
A few wars against the Dutch
When the French defeated our Navy to let the US gain independance :(
Those pesky US Super frigates
etc etc.
Need to pick up the the Black Sails rules and add them to the pile.
pancakeonions wrote: I reckon for a game about tall ships, we can make room for some Brit fanwank.
It would be fun for Mantic to include some rule for British players to reflect the proud naval history, but those rules turn out to be they only win one in every eight games but they're only allowed to every talk about that one game they won as if it reflects 100% of encounters.
It would be fun for Mantic to include some rule for British players to reflect the proud naval history, but those rules turn out to be they only win one in every eight games but they're only allowed to every talk about that one game they won as if it reflects 100% of encounters.
pancakeonions wrote: I reckon for a game about tall ships, we can make room for some Brit fanwank.
It would be fun for Mantic to include some rule for British players to reflect the proud naval history, but those rules turn out to be they only win one in every eight games but they're only allowed to every talk about that one game they won as if it reflects 100% of encounters.
But if it isn't specific to the British, doesn't that defeat the point?
Some of those look really cool. Shame the undead one really does look lifted directly from Dreadfleet, specifically The Curse of Zandri. That was my least favorite ship of an otherwise excellent crop of models. They were fun to paint and look at, even if the game was utter crap
Though a fun side note: my son (8) and I took it off the shelf a few weeks ago, and played a few scenarios. Even if it was rough for me (such a bad game!), he loved it and we had fun. We played it as a coop game, where we each got a ship (he was partial to the elf ship with its dragon) and battled "the bad guys". I didn't play with wind rules at all, and just did the most logical / reasonable move for the enemy ships when it was their turn.
I really don't know why everyone is so triggered by Dreadfleet. I thought it was a perfectly fine light board game, if a bit high on RNG, and 90% of its randomness was concentrated in like 6 event cards that could easily be removed.
lord_blackfang wrote: I really don't know why everyone is so triggered by Dreadfleet. I thought it was a perfectly fine light board game, if a bit high on RNG, and 90% of its randomness was concentrated in like 6 event cards that could easily be removed.
Same. Dreadfleet is really cool, it's just not Man O War. Because it's not Man O War, it got a lot of hate from people who have no idea what the game is
Same. Dreadfleet is really cool, it's just not Man O War. Because it's not Man O War, it got a lot of hate from people who have no idea what the game is
Spartan gets mocked about because making Uncharted Seas and leave it without much support until it was dead
Yet GW made a one time thing with one ship per faction without any support and no afford in the rules to have an excuse to sell plastic display ships
of course with collectors plastic ships only, less people would have bought it because those who hoped for a real game would have been out from the beginning
so no reason to be more friendly to Dreadfleet than to Uncharted Seas (actually the later should see more love as it was at least Spartan tried to make a game and not just sell models)
About the ships revealed so far, what I meant is the miniatures seem a bit overcharged in design, but maybe it's because of the scale involved ?
might be, the smaller the ships, the more overcharged they need to be to still have iconic features on the table (for historical games, large flags and bases with ship names are used to overcome this problem)
but the ship models shown look less overcharged than the drawings from the Newspaper
so maybe only the flagship of each nation goes that direction
for the game itself, I hope to get a small fleet game with 4-8 ships per side
and a scale that matches the historical models (1/1200 or 1/700) so it would be easier to get gaming material
Sarouan wrote: They just said on Facebook they will reveal the game in full details tomorrow. And apparently we will have Ronnie dressing up for the occasion.
This is during Covid. Could just mean he's putting pants on.
Sarouan wrote: They just said on Facebook they will reveal the game in full details tomorrow. And apparently we will have Ronnie dressing up for the occasion.
This is during Covid. Could just mean he's putting pants on.
All resin, 4 fleets at launch. Of the 3 shown Basilenas look nice, Orcs have pants-on-head-stupid melee attachments and Dwarfs seem to be stuck in Uncharted Seas 1.0 clothing irons stage.
Gimgamgoo wrote: With the ogre kits on pre-release, does anyone know if the siegebreaker resin upgrade kit will work with the shooter/boomer models or just warriors?
They are the same bodies, so the answer is yes it will
At this point my only hope is that the rules are good and don't rely on bespoke cards, dice or other effective paywall because I am not buying these models that struggle to compete with 8 year old Spartan sculpts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah well, got my answer. Black Seas rules are good, but the game won't really be playable without cards that come with minis.
That's a great looking starter tho if you like the ships.
I love it. This is everything I wanted and I will buy a starter set for sure. Bonus points for using the Black Seas ruleset. Will also pick up a sea creature box from Warlord soon.
I am definitely hoping this is a solid ruleset (obviously Black Seas, but how they twist it to fit really matters) to go with those solid miniatures. I have enjoyed naval games in the part but historical isn't my thing, and there's really no fantasy ship option on the market right now that has a community to make it playable. A strong ruleset could see this pick up a market pretty quickly.
Never played a naval wargame but I really like what I see. And if it's only fielding 6 to 9 ships per side and has solid Mantic rules, could be a great small addition just to play around for fun.
Also very interested to see the potential for multisystem campaigns with Armada --> Vanguard --> KoW. Just like with Warhammer in the ol' General's Compendium days
Can't wait to buy up everything for Armada, paint it all, put it into a box, and sadly wait until we can play in person again someday.
It looks cool. I have Black Seas, but never got to play before the lockdown. I also got Oak and Iron (another similar game, set a bit earlier during the Age of Piracy, and rules looked a bit more fun but I only played once) and so have tons of ships painted up that look like they're going to be a similar scale.
Nice! (even if some of the ships look a bit silly!)
Nice! (even if some of the ships look a bit silly!)
Silly looking ships are part of the fantasy naval appeal!
Fingers crossed that they "borrow" heavily from some of Man O War's designs, like having a giant floating necropolis for the Undead. And I'd really like to see a crazy looking fleet for the Nighstalkers.
I guess I'll have to wait for a US supplier for preorders.
As for the spinning fist, I'll have to see it in person. But I think Bob's idea may be best, to just make it a ram.
Edit: Interesting to see there will be smaller ship squadrons. The single ship and booster ship addons will be the first on the purchase list if the base set captures my interest enough. Or a starter fleet, which gets you two more ships along with the big ship for double the cost.
I guess switching the fists for something like flails might appease me, but it’s still a little bit like they made the orc ships to compete in robot wars. Maybe we’ll get a wedge shaped one to flip other ships over...
They’re releasing a novel to go with the game! I’ll have to get that.
My son decided he wants to be a pirate for Halloween, so I’ll be digging out the Dreadfleet game (and novel). If he continues to like pirates, then this Mantic game would be a great way to expand on that interest. Really looking forward to this.
Nostromodamus wrote: I guess switching the fists for something like flails might appease me, but it’s still a little bit like they made the orc ships to compete in robot wars. Maybe we’ll get a wedge shaped one to flip other ships over...
infinite_array wrote: Or a starter fleet, which gets you two more ships along with the big ship for double the cost.
A big ship. But not the biggest ship....
You tease...
How did you find the process of adapting the rules to a fantasy setting? (Obviously no pressure if you are under any NDA's or whatever).
I've got three podcasts lined up over the next week with probably more after that where I'll talk about the design process and the rules. There was a fair bit to adapt and adjust (or just change/delete), but is actually wasn't too difficult. It's much easier working from something already written!
Given all we know and have seen with Mantic's army designs over the course of time, none of these ships stand out as outlandish or differing greatly from what's already been presented.
I think it looks good. I find it cheap enough locally I may just bite!
I got into WHFB right as Man O War vanished. None of the other naval settings I've seen have captured my attention. Zero interest in pirates or historical.
I just want to see some Twilight Kin, but I'd settle for regular Elves painted purple.
Links with pics with Dwarven and Empire of Dust ships.
Of all 4 factions, EoD look like the coolest to me.
Probably the best fleet, yeah. Still, feels weird that EoD would have blackpowder cannon. And the oars look like the sculptor didn't really know what they do, but they were in the design brief so he tacked some on.
And the oars look like the sculptor didn't really know what they do, but they were in the design brief so he tacked some on.
yeah, how to make them look "classic" without adding parts that are impossible to cast or break easy
but with the Mantic Resin being easy to work it should be easy to remove them as well
Really happy with this reveal, I'm sold. Having enjoyed the company of MattG a few times and immensely enjoying Vanguard, I am confident this will be a great system.
I'm just disappointed that I won't be able to demo this in my Pathfinder capacity any time soon.
The ship's design is sure a bit over the top, but I'll be honest here and say you can immediately tell which faction they belong to. Each fleet is very different looking from the others.
I noticed something on the boxes from the Firestorm's shop...it looks like the small ships are put by two on a single base, like they're acting as a unit of two. Is that really the case or is it possible to play them individually ?
Sarouan wrote: The ship's design is sure a bit over the top, but I'll be honest here and say you can immediately tell which faction they belong to. Each fleet is very different looking from the others.
I noticed something on the boxes from the Firestorm's shop...it looks like the small ships are put by two on a single base, like they're acting as a unit of two. Is that really the case or is it possible to play them individually ?
Squadrons represent 2 or 3 tiny ships working together. Same as in Black Seas.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pancakeonions wrote: Hey Matt, kindly post a link to your podcasts here. I have no idea how to find 'em... Thanks!
I recorded Counter Charge earlier. Once they've edited it it will appear here: http://www.ohiohammer.com/
I'm waiting for the 'piracy is ok because Mantic made me do it/it's a naval game'.
This something more of a grey area than pure piracy. If a customer buys the book and then uses the information in it to stat up some US or DW minis, that’s completely kosher. If they “counts as” using information from a friend’s card to play the game with said friend, that would be fine. If they promote the game by playing their OOP US minis against gamers thinking about buying the existing Mantic minis, that helps out Mantic. If they buy the book and copy the cards but never intended to buy any minis...that’s not ideal for Mantic, but not actually a loss, and potentially a gain if they introduce a fun game to friends who are willing to buy minis. Pirating a pdf or the rulebook and cards to play with US ships, that would be wrong.
NP. Something else that stuck out to me wwere the apparent size of the extra large ships copmared to the large ships which we've already seen. Looks like they'll be huge.
Matt G, can you tell us when we'll see Nightstalker ships?
.Mikes. wrote: NP. Something else that stuck out to me wwere the apparent size of the extra large ships copmared to the large ships which we've already seen. Looks like they'll be huge.
Matt G, can you tell us when we'll see Nightstalker ships?
I hope they go a bit "out there" for Nightstalkers and have things like fogs and mists rather than actual ships (thinking a bit of the Shadows Planet Killer in Babylon 5)
(not fully done with the podcast yet but) for the rules points:
they changed the rules to fit KoW style, eg. modifiers are reversed to work the same as in KoW and Vanguard and not like in BS
also more streamlined, the standard Windrose in BS is the optional advanced one in Armada while the new Armada one just gives initiative (which made the factions easier to balance)
also the faction design is with the characteristics from KoW in mind so Dwarfs are what you expect from KoW Dwarfs
kodos wrote: (not fully done with the podcast yet but) for the rules points:
they changed the rules to fit KoW style, eg. modifiers are reversed to work the same as in KoW and Vanguard and not like in BS
also more streamlined, the standard Windrose in BS is the optional advanced one in Armada while the new Armada one just gives initiative (which made the factions easier to balance)
also the faction design is with the characteristics from KoW in mind so Dwarfs are what you expect from KoW Dwarfs
Some of the things I picked up from Matt's podcast (I actually sat through the full 1.5hours! Unprecedented for me!):
- 2 factions at release, 2 factions (dwarf, Empire of Dust) in Q1 2021. 4 factions "in the works". Nightstalkers are shown in the preview, Trident Realms were mentioned in the podcast (were there others I missed?). The Trident Realms in particular seems like they may go for a more "dark elf" style fleet: giant sea creatures with possible platforms on their backs for boarding parties, etc. Sounded very cool! They're probably thinking about releases from mid 2021 or later, if the game sells well - Because the ships are resin, and the costs here are lower than HIPS, Matt talked about extra bits to help customize your ships (like the named unique ships), so we might see elements in the boxed set for variations in ship style and look. Look at the Basilean Dictator in the pic above, and its named variant, to get an idea of what this might look like. - No rules for fliers in base rules, but lots of hints that it's "in the works" if the game does well. I suspect an expansion would have fliers, and we'd see cool models if the game does well. - Lots of administrative changes to Black Seas, so the games aren't compatible. e.g., BS uses "roll under" a value on the d10, KOWA sticks with the more standard "meet or beat" a value on the d10, so high rolls are better. No wake tokens to indicate speed, no "hit point" sliders on the cards (you pile damage tokens on the ship cards). Once your ship has a certain threshold of damage, it takes a check to surrender or not, a little like "nerve" in KoW. Wind is a big issue for sails-reliant fleets, and the basic wind rules are much more friendly to sails-reliant nations (e.g., Basileans, orcs) than non-sails reliant nations (e.g., dwarves) - Ship stats are on the cards, and not in the rule book. So you'd need the rules and a fleet box to play as the latter comes with the ship cards. Don't know what their plans for fleet builders or online availability will be. Probably not for a while! - Lots of options to upgrade your ship. Magic items, special crew, named captains (I think only two/ nation at release?) - Standard game will be 250 points, ships will be equivalently priced as the Black Seas ships divided by 10 (I think I got this right?), so your standard game will be maybe 5-9 ships. Fleet building rules are simple, but have been designed to prevent folks from bringing three dreadnaughts and that's it. You can only bring one unique (i.e., named) ship. Don't remember specifics, but it should be simple and easy to implement. - The named ships are all extra large (see pic above) except the dwarf named ship, which I believe is medium (this bodes well for my Dreadfleet ships in drydock... as I think they'll be similar-ish in size and scale!) - I will be buying one of everything, and you should too
What else did I miss? Probably lots. I didn't take notes, and was a little drunk by the end of the podcast (celebrations and all, you know!)
pancakeonions wrote: Some of the things I picked up from Matt's podcast (I actually sat through the full 1.5hours! Unprecedented for me!):
- 2 factions at release, 2 factions (dwarf, Empire of Dust) in Q1 2021. 4 factions "in the works". Nightstalkers are shown in the preview, Trident Realms were mentioned in the podcast (were there others I missed?). The Trident Realms in particular seems like they may go for a more "dark elf" style fleet: giant sea creatures with possible platforms on their backs for boarding parties, etc. Sounded very cool! They're probably thinking about releases from mid 2021 or later, if the game sells well
Have Nightstalkers been shown anywhere at all? That's new.
pancakeonions wrote: Some of the things I picked up from Matt's podcast (I actually sat through the full 1.5hours! Unprecedented for me!):
- 2 factions at release, 2 factions (dwarf, Empire of Dust) in Q1 2021. 4 factions "in the works". Nightstalkers are shown in the preview, Trident Realms were mentioned in the podcast (were there others I missed?
Just based on the existing Kings of War fiction I'm expecting Elves and Salamanders, but I guess we'll see what happens
Disappointed the wind rules have been simplified and removed (the advanced rules atleast), that’s the whole point of playing an naval game isn’t it , makes it unique. But I still be buying it anyhoo.
mindrobber wrote: Disappointed the wind rules have been simplified and removed (the advanced rules atleast), that’s the whole point of playing an naval game isn’t it , makes it unique. But I still be buying it anyhoo.
So if I'm understanding correctly, they're just in a different part of the book? That's not really removed.
mindrobber wrote: Disappointed the wind rules have been simplified and removed (the advanced rules atleast), that’s the whole point of playing an naval game isn’t it , makes it unique. But I still be buying it anyhoo.
So if I'm understanding correctly, they're just in a different part of the book? That's not really removed.
there are 2 kind of wind rules in Black Seas, standard and advanced ones.
the BS standard is the Armada advanced rules (optional) and the BS advanced ones are gone
don't think that this is a big problem, as in a fantasy game were Wind Blast and Steamships are a thing, wind to determine speed and such things would add another layer that takes times and is watered down by the special rules of the factions
I see no problem in removing something that most factions will ignore anyway
I'm super in. Hopefully I can get some stuff to provide FLG content with, as I am eager to bring more non-GW stuff to readers.
Launch is getting pricey though. Still a good deal, mind, but $300 US for the launch bundle, and blinged out tokens and bases, is still a considerable investment.
It is nice to see Mantic seemingly gathering a head of steam with this release. A few recent releases like Hellboy seem to have fallen a bit flat, but Armada seems to be itching a scratch that a fair few gamers have.
As an aside how good is Mantic's resin casting? Is it still done in house like their original (to me quite bendy) metal casts?
As an aside how good is Mantic's resin casting? Is it still done in house like their original (to me quite bendy) metal casts?
well, better than GW (no, it is really good and one of the best I have worked with)
yes it is done in house, a reason why it was done in Resin and not something else to get as much control over the production as possible without a huge investment needed
So support for this game on long term will depend on how good it sells. I'm a bit concerned, given the worst possible time to release a game being now...I mean, I expect playing with someone else in RL will become more difficult, since the stats aren't good in my country.
Would be nice to see all KOW factions represented in Armada for sure. With Vanguard, it will be an awesome tool for linked campaigns !
Sarouan wrote: So support for this game on long term will depend on how good it sells. I'm a bit concerned, given the worst possible time to release a game being now.
I wouldn't worry about ongoing support. I've got lots more coming next year, already in concepting and rules being either tested or planned. And this launch wave is about to sell out...
Support for ANY game from any company long term is dependant on how well it sells. That's just normal.
I for one am looking forward to this. I'm a sucker for a fantasy navel combat game. (I jumped in on The Uncharted Seas at it's beginning - shame how that turned out - I still have some fleets floating around somewhere). I can see myself cobbling some Fan rules for my Dragon Lords....
MarkNorfolk wrote: I for one am looking forward to this. I'm a sucker for a fantasy navel combat game. (I jumped in on The Uncharted Seas at it's beginning - shame how that turned out - I still have some fleets floating around somewhere). I can see myself cobbling some Fan rules for my Dragon Lords....
Yeah I tend to do that for games - and then try to presuade people to play with them - worse case i'll proxy.
Def pick up the rules and ships I like - I have thousands of models so now don'y buy any I don't like the asthetics
Looks really awesome. I probably would not really ever get a game of it played, but could see myself ending up buying some stuff (though waiting till more fleets are out and choosing then would be sensible..)
HALPI’S RIFT
Halpi’s Rift is a brand-new campaign book for Kings of War, which includes rules for the using the magic bleeding into the world of Pannithor in your games! Each campaign location is affected by the magical energies running through Pannithor differently – providing players with additional location specific spells and artefacts that can be used to vanquish their foes and turn the tide of the campaign.
The increase in magical activity in these locations may also provide Spellcasters with powerful, if sometimes unpredictable, abilities. Such is the power of these magical energies, that even the nature of the battlefield terrain itself may be blessed or cursed by it, causing generals to adapt their tactics for the unique scenarios found in each location.
The supplement also sees us continuing to move the Kings of War timeline along slightly. Long gone is the war against the Abyss and now the Abyssal Dwarfs, goblins and Ratkin are causing problems in the Halpi region. Alongside plenty of new narrative (with a main story penned by Mark Latham), Halpi’s Rift also sees the introduction of some new and returning magic users. Fans of Nomargarok, your time has come!
It’s also worth noting that Halpi’s Rift was originally going to be the basis for a global campaign, with factions fighting over the energy surging through the mountains. Although that hasn’t been possible * shakes fist at 2020 * we are still planning to use it as a basis for a campaign next year. So, buy the book and get practising.
If you simply can’t wait to get more info on Halpi’s Rift, the delectable Steve Hildrew has filmed a play through with the equally delightful Matt James.
WAR IN THE HOLDS
A new supplement isn’t the only big release for October because we’ve got an amazing new two-player set featuring the all-new hard plastic goblins and * drum roll please * hard plastic Ratkin. That’s right, the ratties are officially making their way into Kings of War as a Mantic army. The Ratkin will be released as a full army in early 2021, so this is a great opportunity to be among the first to grab some and start your furry army.
Inside the two-player set is 40 hard plastic goblins, an exclusive resin Wiz, three trolls, 40 hard plastic Ratkin, a Night Terror and an exclusive resin Warlock. Plus, there’s a Gamer’s Edition rulebook and a special War in the Holds getting started booklet.
We’ll have more on War in the Holds later this week, along with a closer look at those amazing Ratkin.
GOBLINS! GOBLINS! GOBLINS!
Although the new hard plastic Ratkin aren’t getting a full army release until early 2021 (although they can definitely be boosted with the sci-fi Veer-myn range), the goblins are most certainly getting their time to shine.
The new hard plastic means we’re able to produce a refreshed army set and mega army. The latter is extremely exciting because it now includes a giant. That’s right, you get a whopping big giant in the mega army.
We’ll have a much closer look at the goblins soon! So, as you can see, there’s plenty of excitement for Kings of War just around the corner. What are you most excited about? The correct answer is goblins.
I see the Vanguard building ruins in the picture I wonder if/when Mantic will release them as they make nice scatter terrain and I could do with a few more. Seems odd to make a HiPS sprue and then not release it.
DaveC wrote: I see the Vanguard building ruins in the picture I wonder if/when Mantic will release them as they make nice scatter terrain and I could do with a few more. Seems odd to make a HiPS sprue and then not release it.
Andy from Black Jack Legacy covered Armada in has stream last night and got an exclusive preview of the first XL ship to be revealed - Basilian Dictator
not necessarily, the Goblins are all the same on the picture as well and from those we know they come with 3 different weapon options (spear, sword, bow)
would be surprised if the Ratkin kit would only cover one unit
My only concern is the potential price for the XL ship. The Abbess is already 18€. Even if you don't need many models to play, the individual price per ship seems rather steep for such small models (as per the pic next to the Vanguard models).
Starter box is good but will think about the rest. After all, Mantic went from "affordable gaming" to "your hobby, your way".
VBS wrote: After all, Mantic went from "affordable gaming" to "your hobby, your way".
Gotta say, I'm always sad when people poop on Mantic for wanting to invest money into producing cooler sculpts made with better materials / stay in business. Personally, I always look forward to giving Mantic money, especially as I'm encouraged to use whatever minis I want for KOW, which is fantastic for me as a hobbyist, but doesn't give me many options to toss $$$ at the company. Annnnnd I also have a high tolerance for minigame pricing, thanks almost entirely to GeeDub's cost = game use + artificial scarcity model
I think the prices are ok for what you get
those are big full resin models, and their price is normal compared to similar sized resin models (looking at the 1st Rate ships from Black Seas which are also resin and cost 24GBP I expect the XL Armada ships to be in the same range when the large ones cost 18€)
the "affordable gaming" slogan still holds up to a point, as a full fleet to play is still on the lower end what you usually pay for an army
another point might be that as the game is bases on a different game, that maintaining a higher price as Black Seas might be part of the License
and one last point, something that came up in one of the GW topics, this game is produced by Mantic in Europe so they also have to pay European prices for their people and raw materials.
I also would have liked the Starter Box to be 50 instead of 75, yet it is the same price as the other newer Mantic Sets
only Deadzone is really cheap, yet I have seen no one that uses the Mantic stuff here as a cheap replacement for 40k and people still rather play Kill Team that cost 2-3 times as much
Pricing is subjective for customers. Everyone has a different perception whether a product is "worth" the money based on what they like and/or purchasing power. It has nothing to do with pooping on a company for getting better or wanting to stay in business, as you say Boss Salvage.
There are companies that I wouldn't buy products from even with a 60% discount, based on the fact that I dislike their current minis. So not worth buying regardless of price. In other cases, a 10-20% more or less can mean I buy or not, if I consider it a good deal.
For me, Mantic has some cheap products, others not so much. Across games and time of release there are notable differences. From what I see for Armada, it's more the later besides the starter box.
More than welcome to have a different opinion.
Nostromodamus wrote: I guess switching the fists for something like flails might appease me, but it’s still a little bit like they made the orc ships to compete in robot wars. Maybe we’ll get a wedge shaped one to flip other ships over...
I was thinking more like one of the Saw Boss minion vehicles from Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors
- Trident Realm, because sea monsters
- Varangur, Viking raider fleet with little ranged combat but masters at boarding
- Undead, because ghost pirates are a classic trope. Also would work with like half of the Dreadfleet models
Wind is a pretty complicated thing to make work well in fleet battles.
No it isn't. Black Seas does it alright. And this here is even better; you cut out the inner circle and place the card aligned over the ship model. Depending on the direction from which the wind hits it, its strength (and even if it's "fresh" or "fair"), the card gives you a direct measure of movement (non-linear, potentially a custom profile for every ship type). Takes about 3 seconds to apply on the table;
OHMYGODNO!!! So little of my childhood hasn’t been revamped and reimagined by someone else who really doesn’t get it, please leave one or two things pure .
I think we can all relate to a young man whose absent father and a struggle with weed lead him to a fantastic journey involving space sailboats, wizards, plant girls and flying fish.
lord_blackfang wrote: I think we can all relate to a young man whose absent father and a struggle with weed lead him to a fantastic journey involving space sailboats, wizards, plant girls and flying fish.
Haha brilliant..!
I would love Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors to be a produced license (something like Gaslands with a click-together board representing the vines that the cars drive along?) but unfortunately think it's probably one of the least likely licenses to get picked up! (other than something like leisure suit larry: the wargame)
I'm really excited for this one, and am going to be making it a part of the Fantasy Fisticuffs line-up. The fantasy/naval sub-genre has needed some love for a while, and this seems to inhabit a perfect middle-ground between accessibility, and substance.
For those hoping it would launch with modes where you face-off with monsters, its worth noting that Mantic's preorder page added their Trident Kingdom's Kraken. ;-)
- Trident Realm, because sea monsters
- Varangur, Viking raider fleet with little ranged combat but masters at boarding
- Undead, because ghost pirates are a classic trope. Also would work with like half of the Dreadfleet models
Matt was on the Counter Charge podcast and talked about what factions would/wouldn't be getting fleets. Unforuntatly Undead are on the "not" list, since they're not likely to take to the seas in the Mantic world. Similarly, Ogres are unlikely to get a fleet.
We may see individual mercenary ships for them, though.
Varangur would make sense. And Matt talked about how Trident Realms would be difficult, since an underwater faction's most obvious tactics would just be "attack from underneath," which doesn't make for fun gameplay or good visuals.
Basilean masts are bent, as is one of the dvarven cannons in a turret and a piece of the smokestack is missing. Not a good start, if these are the early view models mantic sent out ...
Lucas Blackwolf wrote: Basilean masts are bent, as is one of the dvarven cannons in a turret and a piece of the smokestack is missing. Not a good start, if these are the early view models mantic sent out ...
These are not final production copies. They are earlier test copies after which defects are fixed and sub-masters made, ahead of production.
- Trident Realm, because sea monsters
- Varangur, Viking raider fleet with little ranged combat but masters at boarding
- Undead, because ghost pirates are a classic trope. Also would work with like half of the Dreadfleet models
Matt was on the Counter Charge podcast and talked about what factions would/wouldn't be getting fleets. Unforuntatly Undead are on the "not" list, since they're not likely to take to the seas in the Mantic world.
Wow.. I'm struggling to think of something cooler than a pirate ship crewed by skeletons! Why on earth would you not want to make that?
I can understand why going the Pirates of the Caribbean look for Undead is not something Mantic wants and there are not many other possibilities for it though
but I would really like to see Vampire themed Undead Pirates
PS:
if those are the only problems (from early production models), than Mantic is already way ahead in quality over GW/FW in Resin casting
- Trident Realm, because sea monsters
- Varangur, Viking raider fleet with little ranged combat but masters at boarding
- Undead, because ghost pirates are a classic trope. Also would work with like half of the Dreadfleet models
Matt was on the Counter Charge podcast and talked about what factions would/wouldn't be getting fleets. Unforuntatly Undead are on the "not" list, since they're not likely to take to the seas in the Mantic world. Similarly, Ogres are unlikely to get a fleet.
We may see individual mercenary ships for them, though.
Varangur would make sense. And Matt talked about how Trident Realms would be difficult, since an underwater faction's most obvious tactics would just be "attack from underneath," which doesn't make for fun gameplay or good visuals.
kodos wrote: I can understand why going the Pirates of the Caribbean look for Undead is not something Mantic wants and there are not many other possibilities for it though but I would really like to see Vampire themed Undead Pirates
I wonder if part of the reasoning is because vampires can't cross running water unless they're snugly buried in native soil, or whatnot? One assumes their hold on their minions would also turn off, leaving the ship to the necromancers / liche kings? Merhaps?
kodos wrote: I can understand why going the Pirates of the Caribbean look for Undead is not something Mantic wants and there are not many other possibilities for it though but I would really like to see Vampire themed Undead Pirates
I wonder if part of the reasoning is because vampires can't cross running water unless they're snugly buried in native soil, or whatnot? One assumes their hold on their minions would also turn off, leaving the ship to the necromancers / liche kings? Merhaps?
Might be, yet having ship with a literal graveyard on it for enough native soil and resources of minions would look interesting
Battle of Ravenwood 
