I dont feel that Robotech is a game that suits that scale.
I havent watched the tv series but used to play the RPG game back in the day and we always played the Invid invasion as a very 'hit and run' underground rebellion style.
6mm battles with tens or even hundreds of cyclones fighting a wave of invid sounds exciting but it doesnt fit the fluff from what i recall (I could be totally wrong though)
there was only a handful of Cyclones thru most of the show usually just 3 also the invid scouts are the same height too, so at 6mm they both would be small.
heights based on Palladiums RPG book:
Invid Scout: 8.3 feet
Invid Armoured Scout: 9 feet
Invid Trooper: 16.6 feet
Invid Shock Trooper: 19 feet
Invid Command Unit: 26 feet
Royal Command Battloid: 29 feet
Invid Enforcer: 7 feet
the largest Invid is just over half the size of a Battlepod from the Macross series
The Cyclone: 7 feet
Alpha Fighter: 28.7 feet
Beta Fighter: 35 feet
the veritechs in macros were about 43 feet while the pods were about 50 feet.
Honestly if you are trying to play mospeada RPG tactics you are doing it wrong. This game should be recreating the larger scale battles between the REF and the invid at that point in the timeline.
If you guys want a skirmish between a couple of cyclones and invid you already have access to much larger renditions of both of those, why encourage throwing off the scale of the game here?
The entire cast of Mospeada could be represented on a single base at this scale, and quite honestly if they are running around in cyclones they should be. Hell, the cyclone isn't even a primary system, it is an emergency backup vehicle.
Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars. Otherwise we would have rules for your unit commander losing turns because he is arguing with an old sourpuss over comms.
Swabby wrote: Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars. Otherwise we would have rules for your unit commander losing turns because he is arguing with an old sourpuss over comms.
that and the "Kiss" maneuver or Minmae song and so on.
Swabby wrote: Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars. Otherwise we would have rules for your unit commander losing turns because he is arguing with an old sourpuss over comms.
It's actually trying to do both.
Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a fast-paced, tabletop combat game that captures the action and adventure of the Robotech® anime.
Two or more players can engage in small squad skirmishes or scale up to massive battles.
Swabby wrote: Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars.
Actually, I think this is where the 'RPG in miniatures' hurts them as it confuses the purpose of the game.
To run a massive battle in a RPG format, most of the outcome has to be predetermined based on the success or failure of players actions as the players are only a part of the battle. This is best represented as having the players as individual models and unless they are all fighting in giant robots, 6mm scale that is just crazy. A larger scale is much better for a RPG format when dealing with more man sized combatants.
To run a massive battle as a Wargame, smaller scales allow for more units on the table and for a larger scale battle to be represented, in this case depending on the combatants size 2mm, 6mm, 10mm can all give that impression.
If Robotech was actually pushed as a Wargame, then great, keep the scale the same (thanks for the replies about the invid wars to those people ) but as a RPG it might have to run multiple scales to be relevent as a RPG format.
It should be obvious to everyone involved who has payed attention to the way this has all played out that they wanted a wargame but had to shoehorn the RPG into the thing for licensing reasons. .
Swabby wrote: It should be obvious to everyone involved who has payed attention to the way this has all played out that they wanted a wargame but had to shoehorn the RPG into the thing for licensing reasons. .
Good for the people that followed, now for anyone that pick this up that didn't it would be a slap in the face. Not, that this game will last it is pretty much DOA.
I'm curious if any of the folks now unhappy about palladium changing the KS deal terms regarding getting it "first" in the ROW voted yes back during the rigged gencon vote when they figured it wouldn't affect them personally.
Yup, found one on my third google search. Graham Bailey, you voted yes for palladium to screw over backers when you thought it wouldn't affect you...now karma is biting you on the behind. Don't get me wrong; it is yet another douche move on the part of palladium and it hurts overseas fans but it is a move that folks like Graham Bailey reinforced their convictions to do.
It is worth keeping in mind how they do business, however.
How many dozens of people condescendingly said "oh, why are you so worried, you'll get your boxes a few weeks later!" during the 'vote'?
Now imagine if they had been able to sell at Gencon.
Hundreds of boxes in people's hands in mid August.
But most U.S. and Canadian backers wouldn't have gotten their stuff until November/December, 3-4 months later (assuming they hadn't managed to sell enough to impact their ability to deliver), and ROW boxes still wouldn't be on their way.
If people thought the Gencon debacle got ugly, there'd be figurative torches and pitchforks by now.
That's what they attempted to do, and only a customs snarl prevented it from happening. Now, obviously they couldn't have known there'd be a fire, or that so many containers would've been checked by customs, but that's where we would've been.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and PB cloaks themselves in good intentions and rainbows despite untold people around them explaining very carefully why this isn't a great idea.
Sining wrote: Palladium was going to do this REGARDLESS of how many yes votes they got. -_- Blaming some random guy off the net isn't going to help.
If you care to reread my post, I said it REINFORCED their decision, not caused it. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of being OK with Palladium selling the stuff to non-backers when it doesn't immediately affect their demographic but does others but then suddenly NOT being ok with it when it ONLY affects your demographic. That vote reinforced their bad behavior and dishonesty and I saw more than a few posts from overseas backers who were fine with selling at gencon including a few that pointed out specifically that it didn't affect them. That's why I checked the names and the third one I googled pinged back positive for hypocrisy. If folks like him don't want to be complete hypocrites then they should support the decision now as well. If other people getting their stuff delayed was ok in order to "grow" the game during a critical sales period, then it should be ok for HIM to have HIS stuff delayed during another critical sales period. I'm of the opinion personally that nothing should have been shipped to anyone else before every backer at least had their's shipped and at least I'm consistent.
Swabby wrote: Honestly if you are trying to play mospeada RPG tactics you are doing it wrong. This game should be recreating the larger scale battles between the REF and the invid at that point in the timeline.
Where do you get this? The rule book has a bunch of characters from the show... The Invid saga probably will, too. Even so, battles in Robotech are not a "massed lines of troops" kind of affair.
If you guys want a skirmish between a couple of cyclones and invid you already have access to much larger renditions of both of those, why encourage throwing off the scale of the game here?
If you can point me to plastic Invid models in roughly tabletop sizes and prices, I would love to buy them. Please show me where I can buy some so I can stop caring about Robotech Tactics: The New Generation right now.
Also, I encourage throwing off the scale when it becomes unworkable. No matter how much you love 6mm games, the idea of putting tiny mecha together on stands instead of making them a comfortable size is just awful.
The entire cast of Mospeada could be represented on a single base at this scale, and quite honestly if they are running around in cyclones they should be.
There. I just threw up. Are you happy?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: It should be obvious to everyone involved who has payed attention to the way this has all played out that they wanted a wargame but had to shoehorn the RPG into the thing for licensing reasons. .
How do you know they wanted a massive wargame and not a skirmish game where every character is important? Is it because that would blow up your arguments for 6mm micro-cyclones?
Really not surprised that i will not get my stuff before retail in USA, less than happy about it though.
Was supposed to be a Christmas present for last year, looks like it won't be one for this year either lol. And when i do it will probably have a nice custom charge on it despite them telling me it wouldn't.
PB - the gift that keeps giving.
warboss wrote: I'm of the opinion personally that nothing should have been shipped to anyone else before every backer at least had their's shipped and at least I'm consistent.
Well, that's just mental. With nothing shipped before EVERY backer had received their rewards, the game would be dead for another year at least. I am a backer, and so the same promises were made to me here in England as were made to you. But even if I had Wave 1 stuff (I have a single set of UEDF decals which I have asked them to keep until they ship my wave 2 stuff, no need for decals until I have models to put them on, right?) and even IF you meant "Wave 1" rather than the whole lot, I would not expect anything here in England until the new year - Australia even later - and that means you want PB to miss out on a load of Christmas business? That seems like a sure-fire way of killing any further investement in the line to me.
The worst thing that could happen so far as I am concerned is for PB to ship my decals, then state that there is not the demand for the product that was anticipated and no further work is to be done. They will get to keep my money, and I have one expensive set of decals that I don't have models for.
And I still don't know who I can buy from in the UK, so I can't even say I can pick up some Valks retail!
Funny when you are talking about scale:
This is a pic of Battletech models with one of the bigger mechs (Atlas 100 ton ~2" in height) with tanks and troops (same scale 1:285 / 6mm):
Spoiler:
Here is some Epic 40k troops alongside a 28mm scale space marine:
Spoiler:
So doing cyclones or standard troops for that matter should not be a big deal.
Ah, found some epic space marine bikes:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: They have the characters in the book. Do you mean they can't make minis based on specific characters?
Pretty sure they can't make miniatures of the characters.
You are correct they stated as much during the kickstarter. That may only apply for macross however.
Joyboozer, the action figures and invid models from the 80s would work fine for what you are going for on the table funny enough there is another outfit making figures at a scale smaller than RRT for the mospeada. As far as robotech not having massive battles, are we even watching the same show? The show likes to focus on the characters, but they are nearly always (mospeada aside) involved in these epic sweeping battles that are going on all around them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Or you can get some 28mmish kits:
Umm, Conrad, he did say "shipped", not "received".
And that's not all that unreasonable. It wouldn't be "dead for another year", they should have those damned boxes out of the warehouse ASAP, and if "shipping 1,000-2,000 boxes to places other than the US and Canada" is that baffling that they can't sort it out by the end of the year, then that's on them.
Keeping in mind that even accepting that 'omg international shipping is soooo much paperwork', they were proud to declare how they were knocking out ~1,000 boxes in a weekend repeatedly.
So it's sounding an awful lot like they know the light is at the end of the tunnel, but rather than miss this sales opportunity, they're plunging ahead regardless of their previous promises.
They were very, very clear about how being a backer meant "having it in hand first and it making us grin" and other extremely creepy statements.
And now for a sizable portion of the backer base (between 1/3 and 1/2, roughly), no, they will not. They'll be able to order them from MM or MM or CSI, and quite possibly have them deliver ahead of those backer boxes. For all their assertions that retail delivery hasn't begun, we're already starting to see the stuff show up in stores.
warboss wrote: I'm of the opinion personally that nothing should have been shipped to anyone else before every backer at least had their's shipped and at least I'm consistent.
Well, that's just mental. With nothing shipped before EVERY backer had received their rewards, the game would be dead for another year at least. I am a backer, and so the same promises were made to me here in England as were made to you. But even if I had Wave 1 stuff (I have a single set of UEDF decals which I have asked them to keep until they ship my wave 2 stuff, no need for decals until I have models to put them on, right?) and even IF you meant "Wave 1" rather than the whole lot, I would not expect anything here in England until the new year - Australia even later - and that means you want PB to miss out on a load of Christmas business? That seems like a sure-fire way of killing any further investement in the line to me.
The worst thing that could happen so far as I am concerned is for PB to ship my decals, then state that there is not the demand for the product that was anticipated and no further work is to be done. They will get to keep my money, and I have one expensive set of decals that I don't have models for.
And I still don't know who I can buy from in the UK, so I can't even say I can pick up some Valks retail!
I was referring to wave 1 and I specified shipped, not received. As for the rest, it is the promise that palladium made repeatedly over the last year and a half and one that they now have repeatedly done their best to break. BTW, if you'd like to get your decals (or anything else wave 1) early, you can now feel free to order them from US stores and get them in all likelihood within 3 weeks. Folks who pledged a year and a half ago shouldn't be getting their products shipped after folks who just clicked "buy" on a website a few days ago or bought it at gencon a few months ago... but they are. It has to do with integrity and that continues to be problematic with Palladium along with project management and real communication. Just like with gencon, they chose to prioritize retail order at the expense of pledger packages. That in my book is the wrong thing to do. If they're at risk of missing out on yet another critical sales period, it is 100% their (HG, PB, ND) fault and they have only themselves to blame due to two years of mismanagement (counting the 6 months of prep work they did to get to the infamous 98% done preKS state).
I know full well that by the end of the week I could have a set of VTs in the post to me and be able to get them built and painted before any of the UKKS packages get delivered, but what is the point of having the decals I had in my KS rewards without any models to stick them on? I have got all I will ever require from RRT from the KS and there is no point in getting more models for a game I will never play - and why would I ever give my hard-earned to PB again for anything is currently beyond me.
But unless you mean that "Shipped" to EU and RoW backers is "Chucked in a container which could go on a ship any week, then to travel for weeks to a destination we have not yet specified, prior to being unloaded, sorted, re-packed, and finally re-shipped" then the delay is certainly going to put continental US retail sales back until next year. Even for wave 1. And although I have zero more interest in RRT, there are people who want PB to work on other models/rules for the other generations, so why would I wish it to die just because I will get what I want out of it?
[Let's see. I wonder how long it's going to be from now to the first Australian backer gets a shipping notice? Anyone want to take a bet on whether it's before or after CNY?]
I can quite agree that PB ought to change their name to DB with all the broken promises they've made since this project started, but that doesn't mean I have no empathy for people who want expansions or other generations that were not covered in the KS. And if the only way for there to be a big enough player-base for PB to believe that more content/models/etc. is for them to sell at retail in countries where backers have already been shipped their rewards, then I just don't see the problem. So far as I know, retail + shipping will be more expensive than waiting for my stuff to arrive (Especially as a lot of my stuff is KS exclusives) and it's not like I wanted them for a present or anything so can't get that worked up about the delays too much - I'll still get stuff that I previously hadn't dare dream I'd end up getting one day.
IF there was ANY way that expansions and more models could be officially produced, or possibly better yet, a completely new game with similar scale models with better production values made without PB's involvement, then I'd be all over it. However, me being glad that I have limited involvement does not mean I wish it to fail completely.
I have nothing left to hold over PB books.
I am still waiting for Wave1 and never mind the great unknown: Wave2.
After my stuff is received I want nothing to do with them again and wish them much fail.
So, no repeat customer = no leverage.
Wonder how they will advertise to those where Robotech was here and gone before they were born?
Looking forward to seeing if my local stores even hear of the game and get it in.
<edit> Unless I find Forar and other backers to play with and actually enjoy the game... then retail may get something out of me, but only RETAIL.
Talizvar wrote: I have nothing left to hold over PB books.
I am still waiting for Wave1 and never mind the great unknown: Wave2.
After my stuff is received I want nothing to do with them again and wish them much fail.
So, no repeat customer = no leverage.
Wonder how they will advertise to those where Robotech was here and gone before they were born?
Looking forward to seeing if my local stores even hear of the game and get it in.
<edit> Unless I find Forar and other backers to play with and actually enjoy the game... then retail may get something out of me, but only RETAIL.
I think Forar is selling his stuff off, but not sure if it was all of it ?
42 Battlepods
4 Artillery Pods
4 Command Pod Packs
I've been watching the online shops and secondary markets casually, and will probably end up starting around 40% below MSRP (or around 20% below most of the shops I've been following) to start. If demand is high or low, I'll revisit that accordingly, but my goal isn't to make mad cash, just to recoup some of the costs incurred last year. 2014 hasn't been an easy year financially, so turning some extra figures into cash would be great.
Conrad, I think you have missed the point here, PB have completely reneged on a simple promise to ship all the backer orders before retail.
Simple thought if in the year leading up to shipping if overseas shipping was going to take longer then surely you plan for it and conceivably ship those 20 plus per cent of orders first. Likliehood they would then be received around the time US and more likely Canadian backers get theirs.
No chance
Even if you are willing to accept US retail orders, can you defend them giving preferential treatment to US preorders made only weeks ago - if you had queued three nights to get something, would you get a bit peeved if someone just walked up and went in ahead of you?
PB is relying on stealth here, remember nothing on the KS site itself just the PB newsletter.
Two big fingers to their overseas customersm is all we will get this year and probably for months after that. AS for your Wave Two, maybe 2016
wilycoyote wrote: PB is relying on stealth here, remember nothing on the KS site itself just the PB newsletter.
Be careful with statements like that, Wily. Claiming that PB is sneaking something through(even though it's pretty clear they are), and that PB is lying(through broken promises which are demonstrably accurate) is apparently grounds for locking threads.
Palladium Forums. The place to be. As long as you ascribe to the "PB can do no wrong" philosophy.
At this point I'm expecting them to skip the second series and move on to an invid boardgame, basically super dungeon explore, different scale, different materials, different audience than RRT.
wilycoyote wrote: PB is relying on stealth here, remember nothing on the KS site itself just the PB newsletter.
Be careful with statements like that, Wily. Claiming that PB is sneaking something through(even though it's pretty clear they are), and that PB is lying(through broken promises which are demonstrably accurate) is apparently grounds for locking threads.
Palladium Forums. The place to be. As long as you ascribe to the "PB can do no wrong" philosophy.
I got banned from the Palladium forums for saying Kevin lied to us backers when he planned to sell at GenCon before backers got their products, well that and when NMI sent my warning that I should not tell such lies and I told NMI what truth hurt? I get unbanned on Dec. 7th rather ironic if you ask me
Because of how they've been mishandling every step of their KS I dumped mine the day it arrived. It showed up and for giggles I opened the box looked over a couple sprues then promptly listed it on ebay as I'm completely done with PB. When I initially backed I was really excited about the game but that was long ago killed by the heaps of steaming manure coming from how they've managed their KS. I don't like being pissed on and told it's just a spring shower.
When I dumped my copy it gave two of my friends reason to get rid of theirs as well as we would have been the core players base at the store and nobody wants in on a game that'll be dead before it hits the shelves.
wilycoyote wrote: Conrad, I think you have missed the point here, PB have completely reneged on a simple promise to ship all the backer orders before retail.
Two big fingers to their overseas customersm is all we will get this year and probably for months after that. AS for your Wave Two, maybe 2016
Nope, not missed that point at all. Just finding it hard to get that annoyed because Palladium have done it to us AGAIN. After all, it's not like this is the FIRST promise they have broken in this campaign, not to mention EVER! There is always that old saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!"
Backers to get their stuff before retail [Only if you can't order from the US and have it sent privately, probably incurring high postage charges and extras such as tax and extortionate 'handling' charges, oh, and as we couldn't actually sell at Gencon, we took "Pre-Orders" and shipped them with the rewards just so we could make some money. Shame we couldn't have actually sold units AND taken "Pre-Orders" too. If only it hadn't been for those meddling Customs Officers!]
Mouth watering quality [Well, there is something wet inside my mouth, but it's not exactly water!]
Etc, Etc, Ad Nausium
I am in no way trying to defend PB and their Unicorns and Roses atmosphere, just stating that it doesn't bother me that continental Us gets retail before EU and Eastern backers see a sniff of their rewards. At this point, it doesn't surprise me that PB have done this - in fact I would have been shocked if they had actually grown a pair and said that until EU and Eastern distribution centres had shipped rewards, RRT was NOT going retail.
Lets face it, at this point, they probably NEED retail sales to get any kind of profitability from this, and that is the only way that any further work will ever be done on this IP without someone else either paying WAY over the odds to buy the rights from PB and giving them back to the proper people, or just prying them from PB's cold, dead hands. All I am thinking of, is that going retail in each 'zone' as soon as rewards have shipped there is possibly the only way to save this project, it certainly increases the possibility that we will actually get a 'wave 2' (or waves 2, 3, 4, and 5, depending on how much of a mess they make of fullfilling the rest of the pledges.). I have no confidence that I will get anything - except possibly the UEDF decals I have specifically told them NOT to ship me before wave 2 is going out to me - before the end of next year. In fact, PB may be counting on that. They may have figured that the average Robotech/Macross fan is so old that they'll have forgotten they backed the KS and buy another lot over the internet from US retailers and end up getting a lot more than they really want.
All I can say is that IF this helps make either more models for the current game, or new generations of the game, then there are people who would want that. Personally, I'm done - so no reason why PB would listen to me as I'm not their target demographic [Unicorn-fart sniffing Friends of Kevin] - but I can at least understand that others may want the game to succeed, so why not empathise with them and at least not hope that it fails [especially before I have what I pledged for in my sticky little mits!].
According to a post by Kevin on Facebook on the 9th they are still investigating RoW shipping options. So they did actually sit on their hands the whole time they were waiting on product, at no time in the months of waiting did they put anything in place.
If they go to retail with the box we were given there is going to be issues. Just the missing cards snafu is going to be a major speedbump to retail success.
Joyboozer wrote: According to a post by Kevin on Facebook on the 9th they are still investigating RoW shipping options. So they did actually sit on their hands the whole time they were waiting on product, at no time in the months of waiting did they put anything in place.
PB is really a small group.
I honestly think they are not in the habit of multitasking or using something like Microsoft Project and setting up parallel operation tasks.
Looking back, they are rather insular and it is surprising they resurfaced enough to get into the newfangled kickstarter thing.
It took some "superfans" to outline the product (even make some models) and the method and describe the pile of money to be made before action happened.
I think the real problem is they were not overwhelmed by it all enough to stop themselves from meddling.
They have proven to be rather cash starved in the past so the temptation to go to market ASAP was rather expected (at least for me).
They had been rather vocal of their various internal turmoil (as well as prior employees) so it was also known PB would not be the most organized (reliable?) group around.
My only expectation is I SHALL get all the items I paid for, I expect that at some point Wave 2 commitments will try to be forgotten (or at least a second shipment cost cash grab) and that I will not budge on. It may get into 2016 but I can at least expect a Gencon surge at least once a year.
Why do I feel obligated to summarize? Maybe because PB keeps trying to re-write history and the passage of time is rather boggling.
Whelp, The War Store has joined the fray, and their prices are the lowest I've found so far (for an online shop, at least). It's not by a large amount, but they're at least a buck (Canadian) cheaper than the others with 2 exceptions; the VT's, which Miniature Market is inexplicably selling for like $22.50 US (~$25 Canadian) and the Command Pod Pack, which they match a couple other sites with.
From what I hear they have pretty cheap international shipping (thanks Morgan).
Not that many folks here are looking to buy more (or any) RRT, just find it interesting how the market is shaping up, now that shops need to commit to pricing.
Forar wrote: Whelp, The War Store has joined the fray, and their prices are the lowest I've found so far (for an online shop, at least). It's not by a large amount, but they're at least a buck (Canadian) cheaper than the others with 2 exceptions; the VT's, which Miniature Market is inexplicably selling for like $22.50 US (~$25 Canadian) and the Command Pod Pack, which they match a couple other sites with.
From what I hear they have pretty cheap international shipping (thanks Morgan).
Not that many folks here are looking to buy more (or any) RRT, just find it interesting how the market is shaping up, now that shops need to commit to pricing.
Any takers on your robotech swap shop stuff? If not, maybe you should offer free confectionery from the sig link to sweeten the mouth watering detail.. I mean deal! I'm curious as to how the secondary market is initially shaping up. I've seen roughly equal amounts of haves and wants over on bartertown where it is easier to search for it.
I've had a few nibbles so far, not having prices probably isn't helping, and until I actually get the box in hand, I'm wary of pushing/advertising too hard. Want to crack 'em open and lay out exactly what's inside, check for missing cards, etc.
Like with my Through the Breach sales, I'm going to start local, to remove the need to mess with Paypal and shipping, even if it reduces potential profits a little. Funnily, also reduces the need to fight with some US site pricing as well, since even the ones that offer free shipping generally don't do so internationally.
This makes a site/shop called Meeplemart the 'target to beat', and after taxes their stuff is around $32-35 Canadian, which leaves me some room to work.
Not that many folks here are looking to buy more (or any) RRT, just find it interesting how the market is shaping up, now that shops need to commit to pricing.
Any takers on your robotech swap shop stuff? If not, maybe you should offer free confectionery from the sig link to sweeten the mouth watering detail.. I mean deal! I'm curious as to how the secondary market is initially shaping up. I've seen roughly equal amounts of haves and wants over on bartertown where it is easier to search for it.
Sales on eBay are almost dead, right now all the auctions with bids is only 1, and some of those bids are good prices, and some with good prices have been ending with no bids, a few weeks ago you could sell a BC wave 1 for an easy $200 shipped, now, not even $150 shipped it seems. latest BC wave 1's that have sold, sold for the $140 shipped range (and those were auctions) and now its going lower then that, whether the decline is due to waning interest in the game or lack of new players, or lack of money is unknown, I do know it is around this time of year eBay sales drop greatly, and people are out looking for that next great electronic over any silly game.
Forar wrote: This makes a site/shop called Meeplemart the 'target to beat', and after taxes their stuff is around $32-35 Canadian, which leaves me some room to work.
Somewhere in the distance Kevin is feeling a disturbance in the market forces... "these are not the miniatures you are looking for".
Saw my first box of Robotech at the FLGS. Had mixed feelings about it. Talked to the owner about it, and he pretty much said he hasn't had anyone even remotely interested. His theory is that the people that really wanted it, jumped on the Kickstarter.
Due to the ineptitude of Palladium in running the Kickstarter, and the amount of people that bad mouthed the game before it even came out (I admit, I was guilty of this), I wouldn't be surprised if the game flops. :(
Forar wrote: From what I hear they have pretty cheap international shipping (thanks Morgan).
Warstore is offering 25%+ off ($72 per core box), and while the shipping progression is weird, it's definitely cheap. For 1-8 First Contact boxes, it went $30/$40/$50/$55/$65/$70/$80/$85. That's to Australia.
After playing around with that, I deleted everything Robotech (cause eww!) and went and made a significant purchase of stuff I'll actually play, with the money I was paid for my RRT pledges.
For those saying I'd regret jumping out, when exactly is that regret supposed to hit? Cause I'm really not feeling it.
Forar wrote: From what I hear they have pretty cheap international shipping (thanks Morgan).
Warstore is offering 25%+ off ($72 per core box), and while the shipping progression is weird, it's definitely cheap. For 1-8 First Contact boxes, it went $30/$40/$50/$55/$65/$70/$80/$85. That's to Australia.
After playing around with that, I deleted everything Robotech (cause eww!) and went and made a significant purchase of stuff I'll actually play, with the money I was paid for my RRT pledges.
For those saying I'd regret jumping out, when exactly is that regret supposed to hit? Cause I'm really not feeling it.
I never said you would regret it, in fact just bought me a crap load of WarHammer 40K stuff the other day with the money I had set aside for more Robotech goodies if I even remotely liked what I got, I didn't, so spent the money on decent minis for the price.
A glance at the sold listings are showing a range from around $110-150 (possibly plus shipping) for wave one BC's.
Now, it's also worth keeping in mind that not all sellers are made equal. Some folks will have negatives, or have low ratings, and buyers can be less inclined to trust them with more money for those reasons alone.
Which isn't to say I'm arguing that the demand and supply seem to be equalizing, though the next few days have auctions in the $150-200+ range for BC's (wave one or otherwise). Just that there are other factors to keep in mind. Edit: could also be that demand for the 'chaff' figures is waning, which doesn't speak terribly well for the game's growth/expansion, but people only need so many VT's/Pods for a standard size game or smaller; the need to get more than a core box or two or a BC or two cheaply is going to dwindle. Or maybe PB's reputation and handling of this matter have very tangibly damaged the brand/product line's viability.
Guess we'll see if anyone nibbles. If the fourth most populous city in north america doesn't have enough interest to sell off figures at around 20-30% below the price available in stores (after taxes, without any shipping costs), that'll be another point in your favour, Rick. If they sell, I make back some cash and, like the tape from The Ring, I spread a darkness across the city, one person at a time.
... I mean put models in people's hands and hopefully they assemble/paint them up better than the amateur hour results I'm going to get when I start.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asterios wrote: I never said you would regret it, in fact just bought me a crap load of WarHammer 40K stuff the other day with the money I had set aside for more Robotech goodies if I even remotely liked what I got, I didn't, so spent the money on decent minis for the price.
Err, he's not talking to you.
It seems to have been a rhetorical question; there have definitely been people (here and in other places) who have proclaimed that those that were selling off their stuff would come to regret it.
Forar wrote: This makes a site/shop called Meeplemart the 'target to beat', and after taxes their stuff is around $32-35 Canadian, which leaves me some room to work.
Somewhere in the distance Kevin is feeling a disturbance in the market forces... "these are not the miniatures you are looking for".
Don't be ridiculous. His circle of fan friends drown out everything that isn't rainbow farts and unicorn sunshine well before it reaches his backside.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks for the update, Forar. Good luck with selling the stuff.
Tamwulf wrote: Saw my first box of Robotech at the FLGS. Had mixed feelings about it. Talked to the owner about it, and he pretty much said he hasn't had anyone even remotely interested. His theory is that the people that really wanted it, jumped on the Kickstarter.
Due to the ineptitude of Palladium in running the Kickstarter, and the amount of people that bad mouthed the game before it even came out (I admit, I was guilty of this), I wouldn't be surprised if the game flops. :(
I don't think it'll flop but I also don't think it'll ever hit the top five of ICvS either. I suspect after a few months post wave 2, most of the sales of boosters will be battletech players. It'll likely have a few games at gencon but I don't expect to start seeing Robotech games on the list of games to sign up for at the gaming specific big cons like Adepticon.
Forar wrote: A glance at the sold listings are showing a range from around $110-150 (possibly plus shipping) for wave one BC's.
Now, it's also worth keeping in mind that not all sellers are made equal. Some folks will have negatives, or have low ratings, and buyers can be less inclined to trust them with more money for those reasons alone.
Which isn't to say I'm arguing that the demand and supply seem to be equalizing, though the next few days have auctions in the $150-200+ range for BC's (wave one or otherwise). Just that there are other factors to keep in mind.
Guess we'll see if anyone nibbles. If the fourth most populous city in north america doesn't have enough interest to sell off figures at around 20-30% below the price available in stores (after taxes, without any shipping costs), that'll be another point in your favour, Rick. If they sell, I make back some cash and, like the tape from The Ring, I spread a darkness across the city, one person at a time.
... I mean put models in people's hands and hopefully they assemble/paint them up better than the amateur hour results I'm going to get when I start.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asterios wrote: I never said you would regret it, in fact just bought me a crap load of WarHammer 40K stuff the other day with the money I had set aside for more Robotech goodies if I even remotely liked what I got, I didn't, so spent the money on decent minis for the price.
Err, he's not talking to you.
It seems to have been a rhetorical question; there have definitely been people (here and in other places) who have proclaimed that those that were selling off their stuff would come to regret it.
actually with the way eBay is handling low feedback sellers, its easier to trust them now since they don't get the money till after the buyer receives his stuffand is acknowledged or after several days or was it week?
Forar wrote: This makes a site/shop called Meeplemart the 'target to beat', and after taxes their stuff is around $32-35 Canadian, which leaves me some room to work.
Somewhere in the distance Kevin is feeling a disturbance in the market forces... "these are not the miniatures you are looking for".
Don't be ridiculous. His circle of fan friends drown out everything that isn't rainbow farts and unicorn sunshine well before it reaches his backside.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks for the update, Forar. Good luck with selling the stuff.
Tamwulf wrote: Saw my first box of Robotech at the FLGS. Had mixed feelings about it. Talked to the owner about it, and he pretty much said he hasn't had anyone even remotely interested. His theory is that the people that really wanted it, jumped on the Kickstarter.
Due to the ineptitude of Palladium in running the Kickstarter, and the amount of people that bad mouthed the game before it even came out (I admit, I was guilty of this), I wouldn't be surprised if the game flops. :(
I don't think it'll flop but I also don't think it'll ever hit the top five of ICvS either. I suspect after a few months post wave 2, most of the sales of boosters will be battletech players. It'll likely have a few games at gencon but I don't expect to start seeing Robotech games on the list of games to sign up for at the gaming specific big cons like Adepticon.
the game won't flop outright but will die a cruel slow death, it will get no support from PB and sales are dropping so no new material will be brought out by PB and the game has already taken several kicks to the groin by the way PB handled the whole project.
I wasn't aware they'd changed the low-feedback seller policy.
Huh. Is that just recent feedback? If not, I might get grandfathered in there if I decide to use it, as I have a pretty rocking rating (for a general user that hasn't bought much in years) but haven't sold anything in over a decade.
Forar wrote: I wasn't aware they'd changed the low-feedback seller policy.
Huh. Is that just recent feedback? If not, I might get grandfathered in there if I decide to use it, as I have a pretty rocking rating (for a general user that hasn't bought much in years) but haven't sold anything in over a decade.
you have to have 10 positive sales or 10 sales with no complaints before you will start receiving your money right away, they changed this policy about a year or two ago.
Forar wrote: I wasn't aware they'd changed the low-feedback seller policy.
Huh. Is that just recent feedback? If not, I might get grandfathered in there if I decide to use it, as I have a pretty rocking rating (for a general user that hasn't bought much in years) but haven't sold anything in over a decade.
you have to have 10 positive sales or 10 sales with no complaints before you will start receiving your money right away, they changed this policy about a year or two ago.
Is it 10 sales or 10 sales within the last year (or some other arbitrary time limit)? I don't see Ebay having it retroactive when they could hold (and collect interest) on relatively inactive sellers' money.
Huh. I have dozens of sales, but they date back literally to the early 2000's. My rating is 537, but if it's recent sales only, I'd be left waiting for the funding as well.
Good to know in advance. Reinforces my desire to deal with people in person. Hopefully that works out.
People at my FLGS had interest in the game (including my buddy)........ in like May. I would be surprised if the reaction when brought up now wasn't "Oh that is finally coming out. That's nice." No one I know bought into the kickstarter; so no real person is looking to push it. I look for the cheap ebay auctions for battle cries, but never bite since I don't want to lose money on a seemingly DOA game. Maybe something will happen with the FLGS and some interest will be generated (then I will split a battle cry from ebay with my buddy. Zentradi for him, UEDF for me).
I might be picking up some of the 6mm mecha from Paulson's Mecha Front if they are available Friday. The minis are beautiful and the rules look tight and fun. Looks easier to show to people for some casual games.
I will still keep an eye out for Robotech, but it just doesn't look promising with all that has happened.
Paulson's mechs are really nice. Clean lines and very little flash make them easy to assemble. I haven't tried his ruleset yet but it looks interesting for small skirmish games.
If you like the look of the robotech minis they aren't all that bad (with one or two exceptions). All of the Zentrati mechs are pretty easy to assemble and they look better then the old battletech unseen casts. The RDF stuff requires much more assembly, but they also don't turn out all that bad if you dry fit pieces before gluing them. The rules looks like they might be pretty good for fast beer-&-pretzels style play. I was hoping to get in my first couple of games tomorrow, but the projected snow might axe that idea.
I backed his (Paulson's) kickstarter for $1 because I didn't have the cash at the time. I really liked the mecha and the final product wasn't lacking in the least. So now I want to buy some, hahaha.
I do enjoy Robotech (and Macross series) so maybe something will happen with this. Good to hear the minis are too bad to put together. Can't wait to see some battle reports come in as people get their stuff (and put it together)
My understanding is that there's a group playing at my FLGS every other week. It seems to be popular enough for a game that just came out, and that people are still getting the materials for.
It's Palladium, does anyone honestly still believe their word about anything?
Every time they said something it's been false or they backtrack and say well that's what we really really wanted to be true at the time we said it, so don't blame us.
Either things are deliberate and they take everyone for fools, or they are a chain of absolutely inept mistakes, which is hard to believe given they have somehow been in business for 30 years and at some point would have been forced to learn a few things in order to stay open.
Personally I'm of the mind that Kevin is a compulsive liar to the point where he can't even tell the truth even if it'd be in his favor, lying and twisting words is just too natural for him at this point and he doesn't know how to do anything else.
stanman wrote: It's Palladium, does anyone honestly still believe their word about anything?
Anyone bothering to follow their history, possibly not.
Every time they said something it's been false or they backtrack and say well that's what we really really wanted to be true at the time we said it, so don't blame us.
Or they just had no real concept of what was going on until too late.
Either things are deliberate and they take everyone for fools, or they are a chain of absolutely inept mistakes, which is hard to believe given they have somehow been in business for 30 years and at some point would have been forced to learn a few things in order to stay open.
They have remained open by the skin of their teeth and it had been close many times.
They have also had a VERY generous (indulgent?) fan-base.
Personally I'm of the mind that Kevin is a compulsive liar to the point where he can't even tell the truth even if it'd be in his favor, lying and twisting words is just too natural for him at this point and he doesn't know how to do anything else.
Too optimistic.
Too willing to add "spin" to things when they do not go well.
Too willing to say "gee wiz that went bad", rather than point out a few choice errors.
Too willing to do whatever he feels he needs to do for the benefit of his company especially at the expense of his customers and have the poor grace of not hiding it well enough.
Whelp, mine has apparently hit customs as of early this morning. For whatever it might be worth (figuratively and literally), I may have it in hand by Friday, but I'm not expecting it until next week, just to keep from watching for notification emails too intently.
... oh who am I kidding, it's time to crack open those Shadows of Brimstone boxes!
I don't think you should at this point. You do get a mess of minis (both figuratively and literally) in wave 1 as long as you got enough "battlecry" levels and not just tons of add ons with no basic pledge. Some of the minis are a pain to assemble and look ugly but there are a few good sculpts in there and it is undeniably robotech. I feel like I got my money's worth in retail value with wave 1 even if I don't ever plan on assembling some of those disasters. I've been about as critical as you can get regarding the wasted opportunity that is this KS to build the brands (both PB and Robotech)... but I am a little excited about getting to go pew pew with some battlepods in two weeks. I'll even be uploading my robotech soundtrack to my kindle to play in the background.
On the other side, I feel nothing but relief I got out when I did. The only regret is that PB dropped the ball. But none when it comes to what's actually being produced. The rules, the miniatures, or what's likely in regard to following support are all looking to be somewhere between mediocre and awful, in my opinion.
Granted, there'd be even more extra grief at the moment, being an Australian backer and the latest shenanigans. But thankfully the product (well, Wave 1 for the moment) I offloaded has already arrived at it's new owner's destination. So thankfully I don't have to deal with a potential disaster if it got sent halfway around the world.
Borrows white knight soapbox, " I dont agree with what Palladium are doing, but they didn't actually say they would ship out backer rewards to RoW this year!"
Seriously, is there anything left for even the blinded to defend at this point?
And really, who is to define a year? An arbitrary period of time based on our perception of the universe around us, a set standard with minor variation tied to the orbiting of our planet around a celestial body, but really, is a year really a year or is it only a year because we call it a year? Plus we've been waiting nearly 13.8 billion years for the universe to produce this product, making it the epitome of all that has come before it, and the yardstick against which all further human endeavors will be compared.
Truly another week or two (or eight or twenty) is a small pittance to pay for such glory?
I've mentioned it before but I think it's the blatant lying that gets to me the most. They can't even go "sorry guys, I'm going to ship this to get to thanksgiving. I hope you understand but even if you don't, I'm going to do it anyway". They go "But I never said I would ship to ROW before the US retailers got it". Kevin has a bright future in politics. Or used car sales
Just a heads up we have chased our supplier for release information and we have now had to push the date back to the middle of January. The dates are being currently being updated and every customer affected will be emailed directly. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on this one, myself and the guys here in the office are eager to get our hands on the shiny new boxes just as much as everyone else!
Just a heads up we have chased our supplier for release information and we have now had to push the date back to the middle of January. The dates are being currently being updated and every customer affected will be emailed directly. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on this one, myself and the guys here in the office are eager to get our hands on the shiny new boxes just as much as everyone else!
Well, at least the retailers are not being treated any better than the kickstarter backers, so there is no perceived prejudice.
I have been afraid to log into my kickstarter account and see if a shipment is coming... I think I would rather be pleasantly surprised than expectantly waiting.
Well, I just cannot wait to start clipping those tiny pieces of models and having them zipping into the dark corners of my work area.
I may have to place mosquito netting over my hobby area so I do not have any rage issues.
I have my special glue for the funky plastic those models are made of.
I will start with Zentradi models to preserve my sanity.
Looking forward to adding the Tactics rulebook to my bedside table along with Warmachine and X-wing.
Then the real fun of looking to see if anyone in the local area has a set and willing to play.
Forar and Toronto is looking like the first meeting place after shipment and some assembly.
Actually researching how I am going to tailor my RDF and Zent units to past time and build more 6mm terrain
Adding some mini statues I got from Thailand to throw in some parks
Went to my FLGS last night and what did I see: a Robotech RPG Tactics box sitting on the counter Traitorous PB! Damn your eyes!
The guys there started rubbing it in, since they knew I had "invested" in the kickstarter.
You know they like you when they make fun of you.
Then all was well when I got home and found an enormous box in my front hall and my wife wondering if we took a second mortgage on some hobby item.
So yeah, two boxes of the game and two huge bags of sprues with cards and decals and various slips of stuff.
Wasted no time cracking open a box and grabbing the rules (standard PB size paper-cover rulebook).
It all looks OK to me so-far for a quick read-through so getting some models together appear to be a priority.
Yeah, no matter how many pictures, it still does not prepare you for just how tiny these things are.
The long-time modeler in me is all excited: they are going to be a beast to do.
Trimming all those mold points, gluing together and cleaning up bond lines will be time consuming.
Good thing is they are so tiny that even a half attempt at painting would still look fantastic.
Those decals! Freaking tiny! will have to see if pre-cut (good luck pushing those wee things around), if I have to cut the clear layer I may wave the white flag.
My brain is still batting around the order of operations of how I will airbrush these things.
Thinking matt black for the "swoosh" post for jumping/flying models, fine gravel the base (adds weight!) hmmm grey cement like or the "snakebite leather" type brown for the base?
Possibly wrap the posts with saran-wrap to mask.
My wife said something like she wished I missed this kickstarter altogether and just saw the box in the store and be happy.
I said "What? and miss out on griping about my wave 2 stuff not getting to me for another year or so? Why deny me my fun??"
Ah, I tend to like playing a Necromancer in games, please allow me to Necro an old thread of mine for terrain:
The obvious answers? See if any friends are interested in playing it with him. Reach out to other members (through Mike's page, through Dakka, through other Facebook sites, through the PB forums) of the community.
It's not different than playing Malifaux or some other "not Warhammer" game that isn't all but guaranteed to have something resembling a local presence; you either try to build one yourself (locally or at larger events with a higher number of potential players) or you don't, and accept whatever games you may or may not be able to get in.
If some other people buy the game and don't mind leaving their name or some manner of contacting them for him to sort something out, great. If not, well I guess it's on to plan B and he has to travel into Toronto or some other town to get games in. Maybe tries to start a league at said games shop, or run a little tournament to drum up interest.
Like, this applies to any game that doesn't have a massive built in fan base. What if I want to play the 24 CCG? Whelp, it's not Magic, so sitting down at the game store with a deck out probably won't attract much attention, so I guess I'll have to ask around.
But it's a bit early to be asking about contingency plans when his Plan A went into effect practically hours ago.
Forar wrote: Dude... this is borderline concern trolling.
The obvious answers? See if any friends are interested in playing it with him. Reach out to other members (through Mike's page, through Dakka, through other Facebook sites, through the PB forums) of the community.
It's not different than playing Malifaux or some other "not Warhammer" game that isn't all but guaranteed to have something resembling a local presence; you either try to build one yourself (locally or at larger events with a higher number of potential players) or you don't, and accept whatever games you may or may not be able to get in.
If some other people buy the game and don't mind leaving their name or some manner of contacting them for him to sort something out, great. If not, well I guess it's on to plan B and he has to travel into Toronto or some other town to get games in. Maybe tries to start a league at said games shop, or run a little tournament to drum up interest.
Like, this applies to any game that doesn't have a massive built in fan base. What if I want to play the 24 CCG? Whelp, it's not Magic, so sitting down at the game store with a deck out probably won't attract much attention, so I guess I'll have to ask around.
But it's a bit early to be asking about contingency plans when his Plan A went into effect practically hours ago.
Well I was curious, didn't know if he had other players in his area or not, or if he was going to try a demo at the store or what? yes he has so many options, I was just curious which one he was going to do.
I think it's on this page or the last he noted being local to me, so who knows, maybe he and I will get together for a game sometime.
From a glance at some data mining I've done, there's probably at least 80-100+ backers in our vicinity, minus those not interested in playing any more, plus anyone that picks it up.
Hell, I'm 'one backer' but have a crew of a half dozen that may end up playing it, all told.
Now, maybe I'll pick it up, say "feth this" and my group will follow suit. Or maybe it'll be an X-Wing sized hit and there'll be 100 person tournaments starting early next year.
Or, vastly more likely, there'll be some players and hopefully maybe a few in his area and maybe he can work out some scheduled games with them sometime. Or not. Like... we'll cross that bridge in half a year when we finally have a half dozen figures built for each side. >.>
Forar wrote: Or, vastly more likely, there'll be some players and hopefully maybe a few in his area and maybe he can work out some scheduled games with them sometime. Or not. Like... we'll cross that bridge in half a year when we finally have a half dozen figures built for each side. >.>
well I've noticed around me the major thing putting people off of the game is the complexity of the miniatures to assemble.
Forar wrote: Well yeah, that's the joke. That it'll take us a month per figure.
But that might just be me. >.>
I have on occasion been a game "early adopter" so I may have to present the game to the area.
The first step is making the models look good, I have done some 30 years of building models (since I was 15... yikes I sound old!) so it will be challenging but not anything I cannot handle (or re-sculpt, replace, pin or out and out fake-it in general). I got the proper glue for this weird plastic and I have a "Drop Zone Commander" city to play in and few items I listed in my 6mm terrain thread.
My airbrush should get me through some decent block painting, a wash applied for all those little groove details, some detail brush painting, decals (shudder) and clear coat.
Yes, if no takers (got at least three guys request to see a demo when I get something usable together) I may have to hunt down Forar if he is not bothered by the obvious obsessive personality traits...
Now that I have actually received something I think is "worth" the money I put down I find all this recent pessimism messing with my buzz, no more bad vibes people it is all:
I've put together 40 figs for the game. Some of them are easy. Some are a pain val battleoid. All and all the game is fun and I don't really have any terrible time putting figs together. The old metal thunder hawk was the worst thing I have ever built. It took a grinder to get the pieces to fit. Lol. The pieces could be easier but any gamer shouldn't really have to much of a problem.
griffen127 wrote: I've put together 40 figs for the game. Some of them are easy. Some are a pain val battleoid. All and all the game is fun and I don't really have any terrible time putting figs together. The old metal thunder hawk was the worst thing I have ever built. It took a grinder to get the pieces to fit. Lol. The pieces could be easier but any gamer shouldn't really have to much of a problem.
Are you comparing 1" robotech game pieces to the old 10lb+ and over a foot long 40k $750 Thunderhawk that came in a wooden box and had hundreds of pieces? If so, that's a automobile to apples comparison as an orange wouldn't begin to convey the difference.
Asterios wrote: well I've noticed around me the major thing putting people off of the game is the complexity of the miniatures to assemble.
That is the biggest issue. If they were comparable to at least a WH40K sprue where one figure is typically 2x arms, 1-2x legs, torso, head, backpack it would be one thing. But each piece is usually two pieces, so one arm is two pieces, one leg is two pieces. Unless someone has modeling or Gunpla experience, it is very daunting to the average miniatures gamer.
We had a group start assembling and at the start everyone was ok. By the time they finished two to three models, it was more like "Why did they do this?" and "This doesn't even make any sense" in terms of the style of the production kit. So by the end no one wanted to play because of frustration. Some are still interested and love the models, but they are mostly people who do put Gunpla together. On the plus side, many of them are old school Battletech players so they still have their unseen and switched over to them, so some are still sticking to it who aren't modelers.
One of my friends bought into RRT, he brought over some his models to let me have go at assembly and get a good firsthand look at everything.
Over the last 30 years I've literally built thousands of miniatures and models so one might say that I have a just a bit of experience as both modeler and wargamer. Looking over the sprues there were a couple issues that were obvious before I even began work.
1 - No part indicators While the parts are laid out like model kits on a sprue there is no numbering or lettering system used, this makes it difficult to pair up a number of the parts like the legs and feet which have a particular mating part. It does not prevent you from building the models however it did require that I take off each of the legs parts pre-assemble them and test fit each of the feet, which required extra time and was slightly annoying. Easily avoid able by adding some sort of indicators or even using some sort of custom pin or peg arrangement for each leg that would allow the builder to quickly determine which parts mate up.
2 - Incredibly thick sprue connection points A lot of the connection points for the sprue are very thick compared to other brands of models. This leads to larger attachment marks on the models and requires more cleaning. The connection points are all made to a really fat ball like shape, where on most other model company try to have a smaller flat runner that attaches to the piece which is also a bit longer. While on it's own it isn't hugely problematic it combos with point number three for a lot of headache.
3 - Parts are incredibly close to the sprue The parts are all very close to the sprues, to the point where it's quite difficult to get a pair of clippers in between the part and the sprue. This means that in many cases the parts are at risk of being gouged by the clippers or the part will be come off due to being forced or being pried loose rather then being cut off cleanly. This can easily lead to the part being pitted and leaving ugly tool marks, or broken mar points which require gap filler. It also further combines with both points two and four for what I feel is the largest issue with construction.
4 - Incredibly thin parts A sizeable number of parts are incredibly thin, all of the head lasers for instance, lasers for the Zentraedi pods, Veritech missiles, and the Defender arm guns. These parts are very tiny and will be prone to breaking while being handled either in assembly or during game play. This is further complicated by points two and three, on the small parts the sprue attachment points are almost as large as the diameter of the part itself and the closeness to the sprue makes it very difficult to remove the parts without breaking them. Your best option is to use a hobby knife to separate the pieces, which is not ideal. As any experienced modeler will tell you that part removal with clippers gives a more controlled result and a cleaner cut. It also helps avoid tiny parts springing off into the blue yonder when being cut free. Given the size of the parts they will be near impossible to find on the floor if they pop off the sprue and go flying, which occurs more often when using a knife to remove parts.
While the thin parts may be more accurate to the source material they are a total PITA and won't tend to hold up well to transport and game play. They are very delicate parts that will tend to get snapped off when they stick in transport foam or if the user isn't super careful in how they are handled and they fall over. I'm not talking about dropping them on the floor or throwing them across the room, these parts are thin enough that they will be subject to breakage from a wobbly model simply tipping over on it's own. The Zentraedi lasers are likely going to need constant repair and I don't think the Defender's arm cannons will fair much better. As they don't have any major details the pod lasers can likely be replaced by brass rod or pins, but that will take some serious dedication that I don't think the casual user will want to put in.
For display models thin parts aren't the end of the world as they just sit on the shelf and look pretty, however these are intended to be used as game pieces so they will be subject to a lot of handling and jostling around during transport which results in the fine parts seeing a lot of stress. This is why with most other wargaming models we tend to see over sized weapon and details as it increases the durability.
5 - The plastic The plastic is bit odd, it appears to be a bit shiny or oily in appearance but to the touch it actually has a very slight grit to it. The plastic is also slightly brittle and when handling it it felt very much an actual kit from the 1980's that's been in storage somewhere. It's very rigid which is helps with details, but when being cut it feels more like it's an aged and quite brittle plastic and it makes me want to be very careful when removing them from the sprue. Even as a very experienced modeler I feel like I'm going to break everything just removing the parts. Having worked with aged plastic a lot in the past I was super careful and I managed not to break anything so far although I did have several of the pieces gouge or pit more then I would have liked. I think somebody without as much experience will have more difficult time with it and it certainly won't help the survival rate of the thin and tiny parts. The working properties aren't quite as nice as I'd see with a GW or WGF product who use a slightly softer plastic that cuts easier and doesn't mar as easily (but is still plenty rigid and durable)
6 - Somewhat soft details They certainly aren't lumpy blobs, but there are a lot of edges that are slightly rounded and areas on the finer parts that aren't as crisp as I was expecting. Most of that stuff isn't all that visible at table distance where it'll be seen the majority of time, however anyone wanting to use these as a higher end display piece for painting is going to have to do a lot of additional work.
7- Marked difference between factions There's a very notable difference in the detail and quality between the two factions. As many have mentioned it almost seems like the Zentraedi and RDF stuff was handled by seperate companies. The Zentraedi stuff is clearly better in overall quality and detailing, the RDF stuff not so much. The RDF stuff is still viable but it's clear that it didn't get quite the same amount of love and attention during the detailing and parts breakdown.
Overall they certainly aren't the worst kits I've assembled but at the same time there's nothing stellar to rave about. IMO they look alright but have a number of pitfalls in the product execution. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give the RDF stuff about a 6/10, the Zentraedi by itself would likely be a 7/10. I'm pressed for time at the moment so I'll cover the assembly review in another post.
As much as I hate some of the decisions that GW has made over the past decade, the experience I had in assembling my first one of their new kits recently was hands down much better than what I witnessed a fellow gamer have with Robotech. Whereas his parts were seemingly needlessly subdivided and purposefully fiddly, the GW kit was very well laid out with each part labelled. Complex 3D shapes like a wolf's head complete with sticking out tongue, fur, and ears were done in three easy to find, cut, and assemble parts. It was not the case when I watched someone else with alot of modelling experience (don't know if 30 years like Paulson but he's in his 30's and a CBT player so I don't think he's green!). He damaged several of the small parts despite using the proper tools and even lost one that flew off the sprue when clipped. If I get excited enough after my first Robotech game next week to actually assemble something, I'll definitely be getting a fresh pot of testor's model master glue and new sharp clippers to *hopefully* avoid some of the issues.
Reference for how tiny some of these parts are, not in itself a bad thing for display models, but for gaming pieces it'll require a delicate touch. At this scale many parts would likely benefit from being metal for durability, but kinda moot since the project is done in plastics.
Over the years I've had plenty of the rifleman arms break in transport and game play which are basically the same size and design but the Rifleman has metal barrels that are slightly thicker then the RRT Defender version. (the blue ones were the crappy FASA resin version in the early 90s and were super fragile.)
Super fiddley Veritech head and missiles. Overall the body parts are ok, but the heads are really tiny and overly complex IMO. Keep in mind that on your monitor they are many times larger vs what their actual size is.
Weird ball attachment points that make clippers dififcult, front and back views (also WTF is up with so many connection points on the upper arm?)
Vs standard size clippers (spacing isn't impossible, just difficult to work with) one extra mm in working room would make a world of difference especially with the big ball connection thing being so close as it tends to complicate the proper angling of the clippers.
I gotta agree with Paulson, the Guardian and Battloid figures are fething PITAs of the highest order.
The instructions? They're useless as the parts aren't numbered or labeled in any way - and the instructions aren't even right! There's detached hands and there's none of that on the sprue.
I'm really trying, but in 5+ hours I can't get arms on a Battloid or Guardian to save my life.
At present I've built a pair of Tomahawks and a Defender, I have yet to build any of the Veritechs or the Spartan which have the highest part counts for the current RDF items.
The plastic takes well to standard plastic glue like Testors or Tamiya. I used Krazy Glue brand super glue as it's what I had on hand and because it sets faster then plastic glue. (I build everything with crazy glue) I didn't encounter any issues with the super glue.
It took me about 45 minutes to build the first Tomahawk and I had to fiddle around with finding the matching leg and foot parts. The second Tomahawk took somewhere around 35-40 minutes as did the Defender so there was a bit of increase in work speed, although I doubt I'll be crushing that down under 30 minutes simply because of the number of parts and the care needed when removing parts from the sprue.
Some general observations about the assembly process, there's a lot of parts the Tomahawk comes it an 17 pieces, or 19 if you want the missile bays open. The Defender comes in at 22 pieces, both of which contain a lot of parts for something this size. In comparison their older Battletech likenesses are 5 parts for the Warhammer/Tomahawk and 4 parts for the RIfleman/Defender. It's not a very fair comparison as the molds for metal and resin models are far more versatile then injected molded plastic. (As the owner of a casting company it's something I'm well aware of). But even then there are a lot more parts then likely what is needed, I'd suspect they could have brought the part count down to around a dozen parts per model and been fine.
They did try and capture a lot of detail on the models and as a result that pushed the parts count up higher. Had they been done with slide core molding (like what Wargames Factory uses) it would have allowed them to use some undercuts and fewer parts, but it's also a more expensive process. I'm not going to say the parts count is a bad thing, but it certainly does complicate the build process due to fiddlely sized parts and it significantly increases the time it takes. Not inherently bad, but you need go into assembly knowing they will be a bit more difficult then standard gaming minis like what GW, PP, or WGF produce. I think it was done fully with the intent of making the parts as detailed as possible, but when you are looking at renders that are many times larger on a computer screen it's easy to misjudge the actual reality of what size of the final parts will be.
To somebody without a lot of modeling background a 4-5mm tall part looks pretty big on screen and doesn't give much indicator of of how difficult it'll be to manipulate and assemble that part. I certainly don't think it was done out of malice to make the lives of modelers hell, but it happened due to unfamiliarity with the process and how things translate into final physical form. That's something that's built up over time and practice.
It seems like there were some hang up points that resulted in extra pieces just to capture a detail aspect that's largely hidden from view in most angles. The nose cone on the veritech battloid mode for instance. The chest and nose cone could have been one piece but when looking at the nose cone it's apparent that they wanted to capture the detail of the nose lasers and thus needed to rotate the part line 90 degrees from the torso, requiring that it becomes an extra piece. The issue is that when the model is assembled the legs and hip area block pretty much every view of the nose lasers. They easily could have been left off and 99.99% of people likely wouldn't notice or care, but being that it's a licensed product they need to make sure the details conform as exactly to the established product details as possible. So in order to capture the detail as closely as possible it needed that extra part, which will largely be ignored by gamers on the whole, and unfortunately pushes up the overall parts count. In the quest for more detail you go from what could be a simpler 8-10 count model to now having 20+. I think this largely a complication due to inflexibility and exactling nature in how the established product image has to be adhered to. No real way to work around it, but it does seem to overly complicate the design on some of the parts
The model seams Nowhere as bad as the gaps that were shown on the prototype pieces, however they are noticeable on quite a few pieces. They actually do a decent job of hiding the torso seams on the Tomahawk and on the Veritech torsos. The main area that they are visible is on the legs. The destroid legs have a fairly complex shape to them and the only way to avoid having a seam on the face plate would have been to make each leg in 3 parts which would be even more of a pain. The Tomahawk suffers from a seam running down the center of it's back and the Defender still has a seam down the center of it's cockpit window which is more difficult to use gap filler on because it's in a recessed area. The calf area on the rear of the legs has a similar issue where the seam is in a recess. All of which can be addressed with some greenstuff or other gap filler but it's not something that will be easy for a novice builder. But at the same turn a novice builder likely isn't going to care about a display quality piece and these will work fine at a normal table viewing distance. If you had planned for display pieces you have a good amount of work ahead with the gap filling.
Assembly time The Destroids I averaged 40 minutes on, if I had a boatload of them to build it'd probably get a bit faster but I don't think it's going to happen in under 30 minutes. Given the amount of models needed in the game it'll take a good chunk of time. Not a bad thing if you enjoy building models and the hobby aspect. But as a game looking to attract many first time wargaming converts from the rpg side I suspect that it'll be a bit challenging and frustrating at first. I think they will adjust but I'm not entirely sure it's something I'd suggest to a novice. While I don't try to turn every piece into a masterwork I do like to take the time to fill in seams and drill out gun barrels etc and I can easily see putting in another 30-60 minutes worth of work on each model to get it ready for paint. For the hobby centered guy not an issue, but the pick up and play types may find the build time a bit daunting.
You do also have to be careful trimming the parts from the sprue, thin stuff like the missiles doesn't have much detail to indicate where the attachment point ends and the part begins so you do need to take care not to cut them too short. The plastic is quite rigid and little on the brittle side so it's best to work slow when removing it from the sprues rather than mar any of the parts. I still need to take a crack at the Veritechs which seem to be the most complicated of the models.
Not Poseable This was an area I found to be a bit disappointing, I'd though that part of the push to do plastic minis was to grant them some degree of poseability. The sculpts are more dynamic then Battletech models for instance but they don't offer anything outside of the 2 default poses on the Destroids. The arms can be rotated to give them a bit of upwards or downwards direction but that's pretty much the same range as what battletech models with separate arms offer. I think there's maybe 5-6 total poses for the Veritechs? (I'm not too sure as I haven't built any yet)
Being plastic will make it easier to convert them into other poses, but that's something that will be for advanced modelers. One of the aggravations I did encounter was that the legs and feet have specific pairings, and there's no indications of which ones belong together either from numbers or lettering or unique pin locator shapes. The hips on the Tomahawk were also a total PITA as they offer no support at the joint and the peg is very undersized. A big improvement would have been to skip using a round peg and used a square peg which would help get the leg lined up better without it popping off constantly. I suspect it was caused by inexperience by whoever made the call on how to separate and cut apart the model for molding. It doesn't stop the model from being built but it could be done better. The hip piece on the defender went together much easier as it has an identical style to the mounting point but it's slightly larger and deeper. It paired up much more easily as a result.
While I've yet to build the Regults I did notice that the foot pads are somewhat heart shaped, I think the narrow part points forward but there's no way to tell that based on the instructions and due to the lack of identifying markers.
The assembled miniatures look decent, but there's a lot of work in getting them built. I'm not sure that there's any particular strength that plastic brings to the model that couldn't have been done in metal with a lower parts count. But the reduced weight is nice and the details level is a good standard for viewing at table distance. A tiny bit soft when viewed close up but it conveys the right look for the models. The test will be to see how well all the tiny lasers hold up to game play and transport. I suspect that over time a lot of replacements with pins or brass rod will be needed.
While I love putting the Defenders arms in a raised position to be shooting I know from past experiences with my Rifleman models that it'll only serve to constantly snag them on transport foam or catch on other models causing them to break. The best counter to this while keeping the cool pose would be to magnetize them at the shoulders so when it comes under stress it can pop loose rather than break.
Thanks again for the comprehensive review. Certainly an eye opener. It looks like the production process signed off on some beautiful 3D renders (after an age) but did not consider manufacturing limitations beyond it being mostly possible to implement, then handed it over to a plastics firm that simply did not have the experience or detail capacity needed to make the models work as intended. A real shame but a useful reminder that plastics are hard to get right!
I put together one of each destroid and yes they are a bit slow going.
Some things I would point out:
General Points: MOST halves fit very well together, I was surprised how little filing was needed to align the halves.
The plastic is pretty hard, similar to X-wing miniature plastic, it lended itself well to blade scraping to remove mold lines.
All models are around 20 parts plus.
I would suggest putting together the two halves of a leg and dry fit the feet on the spru to find the right one... saved me much trouble.
Most open missile launcher bays look a bit strange, I decided not to have them open exvept for the Phalanx.
Defender: The rifle twin barrels make me nervous, trim off sprue at tips first then at the sturdier back mount. Do in reverse at your peril.
Tomahawk: The better model to get together, easiest I would say. Put on arms first then the 6-pack and light since it is a very tight fit.
Spartan: Legs are the easiest of them all, the left arm is a pain (3 parts) (I used gun pod arm on the right). Suggest building left arm separate from body (in case you decided to be crazy).
Phalanx: The tiny little cockpit cap, I would suggest using a stick with double sided tape holding it, dropped the TINY thing at least 4 times.
I suppose I will hear the cry "pictures or it did not happen", will get things up soon enough: I am bracing for the veritechs.
Oh, other rule same as for painting: no caffeine before this, any shakes and good luck putting it all together.
Please post your stories, it may help me move forward rather than just a "one of each": army.
I haven't started the uedf models yet but I've had no problems with the zentradi mechs. I've already finished the starter box zentradi models. I'm moving on to the bagged extras next. Going to do the artillery ones first. I'm looking to put magnets into the launchers to make them interchangeable.
I agree with the fiddly bits comments. For a new player/builder the zentradi will be no problem.
As for painting they look good to go. And their finished size should help even novice painters do a table worthy job. Again idk about the uedf.
dalsiandon wrote: I agree with the fiddly bits comments. For a new player/builder the zentradi will be no problem.
Well, except for the Recon Pod, that's supposed to be a complete PITA. And some people have had some issues with the Officer and Recovery Pods regarding antennae, but those aren't apparently important unless you're a purist.
There have been inconsistent reports about the Regult torso back not having the required recess, but otherwise there seems to be little complaint there. Maybe that was an early run that's since been corrected? Hope so. The work I saw required to make them fit was pretty ugly.
The recon pod was covered in fiddly little bits. But it was the most complicated of the zentradi models. And as stated you can leave some of those things off and it's not the end of the world. But yeah fiddly bits.
I didn't have any issues with my regualts.
I built one vf-1R in all 3 modes and 3 pods. The vf-1 was a pain. Both in battloid and gerwalk. The fighter was ok, much easier than the other versions. I didn't bother adding the head to the bottom of the gerwalk and fighter. I really dislike the design choices for it. I thought we were getting sculpts from world class artist. I feel cheated. A plague on HG/PB/ND.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Sometimes you have extra bits lying around and you think, "why not?"
My eyes!
Sacrilege!
(The running destroid is awesome looking BTW, wait! is that a veritech head plunked on top??!! I take it back!)
But the horror!
(That pod looks overgunned or what... only if it was official, but you remove "Leap" capability...)
No, purity of design is a must!
No customization of a clearly defined IP!
Now I have to watch myself in case I glue on stray bits of extra stuff, thanks...
<edit> BTW, any thoughts (anyone?) on adding stuff to the bases? I am thinking I need to sand them down (too smooth) and do the PVA glue and mixed fine gravel/sand.
Seems a shame to cover up those "helpful" arrows for the 180 degree visibility arc.
May have to resort to the Warmachine rule of across the shoulders (more interesting with pods).
I have some thoughts on the one extra veritech in robot form being used as a stepped-on item for the Zen. pods.
I see a lot of researching to get even my artillery pods freaking right.....I've some tiny pieces in the bottom of my box but since it appears the forces are color coordinate and the pieces are brown I'm going with RDF
Here's an interesting blog post regarding the balance in the game.
It is interesting. I haven't played yet, but the few people who have played haven't reported this imbalance (at least not yet).
It's good to keep it in mind, but I am taking it for what it is, the opinion of a guy who plays against young children; who mainly plays with role-playing and board games; who uses tight little playing areas (3x3?) like this https://speakingoutonlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/robo-1.jpg (he refers to 6x4 playing area as being "huge"). He complains in another post about lack of tactics, but pretty much it seems to me that he puts a lot of models onto a small playing area with some seriously constraining terrain, probably just lines them up and blasts away, doesn't seem too concerned with "nuance" like crossfire, maneuvering, keeping models close together for benefit, using the full range of command point abilities, etc.
Not trying to negate what he is writing, just trying to put it into perspective.
A great update from Kevin today. Glad to know that nothing is wrong and that all of those overseas backers are super happy to be waiting for their packages to arrive, while retailers are selling them in the US. I really wonder sometimes if he is completely out of touch with reality or it is just a show he puts on for the world.
Hello, Kevin Siembieda here.
I hope everyone in the USA enjoyed a nice Thanksgiving holiday.
My apologies for the lack of posts here in the Kickstarter page recently. That’s Wayne’s territory and he hasn’t been posting. That’s a shame, because there has been nothing but good news to report. In Wayne’s defense, he and the rest of us have been obsessed with shipping Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product out to all of you as fast as we can. Besides, we’ve added all of you to our email list, so you should have been getting our Weekly Updates, and we did not think we were leaving backers out of the loop.
And man oh man, has it been wild. Once we received Container #5 and then Containers #6 and #7, we were able to ship like mad men. I brought in volunteers and some paid help and we shipped and shipped and shipped. By November 17 we had shipped all but a hundred USA backers and a couple hundred Canadian backers. All rewards for USA & Canada backers (other than a handful of people with specific issues) had left the Palladium warehouse before Thanksgiving, most before November 17th. By the way, that’s more than 4,000 backers shipped. The atmosphere while shipping through the weeks and weekends was jubilant and filled with laughter. Exhausted as we were, everyone was happy and excited to finally be able to ship to our backers.
With the arrival of Container #6 and #7 we knew we would have enough product to ship to everyone, including distributors in the USA and Canada, so we busted our behinds to get them shipped to our North American distributors too. As a result, we know many stores had product in time for the ever important Black Friday weekend of sales in the USA. Our guess is with brokers and Customs, most Canadian retailers will not be getting product till the end of this week. Man, were we tired by the holiday weekend, and I gave the Palladium crew a much deserved long weekend of R&R.
We hope our overseas backers were not too disappointed that Palladium shipped to distributors here in the USA and Canada before shipping to them. You guys will still receive Robotech® RPG Tactics™ rewards BEFORE distributors and retailers get product in your part of the world, and we could not have shipped to you any sooner than we are, had we not.
Our overseas backers and ALL of our Kickstarter supporters are appreciated and important to us. We could not have created this great product without the support of all of our backers. And those of you overseas are most certainly not forgotten. In fact, we expect the rewards to our European backers to leave the Palladium warehouse by the end of THIS WEEK.
As I’ve said in the Weekly Updates, shipping overseas is an entirely different process and when we had more concrete information we’d share it. Well here it is. We need to pack up all the orders, put them on pallets, secure the pallets and ship them off to the port. We are in the process of doing that right NOW. We expect them to leave the Palladium warehouse by Friday. After they leave the warehouse, they will be trucked out and placed on a ship and sent overseas to a fulfillment center. Once they arrive at the fulfillment center, they will be shipped out to YOU across the continent.
Projected Time-Line in Europe: They leave Palladium’s warehouse on Thursday afternoon. Get put on the ship around December 15 (barring delays at port). 2-3 weeks at sea. 1-2 weeks at port. Shipping at the fulfillment center should take less than a week, and then it is however long it takes to arrive via the mail system. We anticipate most of you in Europe should get your rewards in January. Of course, ALL of this is estimated. With a little luck, things will go a week or so faster, but they could also take longer. Once the packages leave the Palladium warehouse it is pretty much out of our hands. We want you to get them as fast as possible and we are doing everything we can to make that happen. We could not do this any faster than we are.
Please bear in mind that every delay – some at manufacturing and many at port in receiving Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product form China (delays at sea, port delays, Customs delays, fire at the port delays, work slow-down at port due to union worker contract negotiations, etc.) – hurt, frustrated and angered us as much as it did you. Our first concern after creating a gorgeous, fun game worthy of Robotech® has always been shipping to our Kickstarter backers. As backers, the kinds of delays and issues you have seen on this project give you a glimpse at what manufacturers deal with all the time. As an “insider” you get to feel our pain and experience the kind of grind and tribulations that are the not so fun part of the game business. Heck, we’re still waiting to receive the last two containers from China! Should be getting them over the next week or two.
So to our European friends, we are packing up your rewards right now! Yes, literally as I write this and very possibly as you read this. We’ll try to get them to you as quickly as possible. If there is a change of address, we NEED IT NOW!
Australia and New Zealand backers are next and will follow a similar process as above.
I hope everyone sees this as good news. It has been a privilege and an honor to be the ones to bring you Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Enjoy the game and we’ll see some of you at AdeptiCon in March.
Remember (ROW) guys and gals, delays that are their own fault and shipping first to North American distributors thereby breaking their promise (again) hurts Palladium more than it hurts you.
Not that it matters. There were almost exclusively negative comments from the regulars and the occasional newcomer before the sham vote and three quarters of the people voted to "allow" palladium to break their promise. I'm sure some more of the folks who are complaining now were among the yes votes back then when it didn't affect them personally. In any case, palladium doesn't care or likely even read the comments beyond maybe a monthly skimming of a few that they then promptly file under "haters gonna hate".
Anyone else feel the discussion leading up to this update was
Wayne: Mr Kevin Siembieda™ Sir, I really think this update should be handled carefully, you did just break the last promise you made to the backers, I'm not sure I'm up to the task.
Kevin : Never fear Wayne, I your perfect leader Kevin Siembieda™ shall handle this situation using all the charm, wit and intelligence I am famous for!
Wayne: Oh thank you Sir, you have no idea how stressful this has....Kevin zones out, scene fades
Kevin, addressing backers: Everyone, it was Wayne, Wayne did it, all of you blame Wayne.
Kevin congratulates himself on another job well done.
This area is feeling like my personal Robotech blog.
Thanks for the links to the write-ups, it is good to have some observations confirmed.
Veritech models! Did one of each of the Destroids, not too bad but this is a slightly different animal.
I put together the robot and gerwalk modes and those arms will be the death of me.
Side note: I am VERY impressed with ALL the models of how crisply all the halves and pieces fit together: no warps so far and tight fits.
Gluing in the two guns into the head I thought would be a nightmare, it fit perfectly and looked great.
Other observation: I think I like this plastic, the hardness of it seems to grow on me, I like how it behaves for cutting and assembly (brittle though! careful support if using knife).
The lack of labeling or showing all the options in the "pictures" is very irritating.
Take a good look at the forearms, the one with the little dimple/dent in the face for the hand is typically the left hand.
You may be better off gluing on the forearms to the arms and then trying to match them up to the applicable gun before gluing.
The little itty tiny three missile pods assembly and lining up on wings is rather harrowing but looks cool when finally all aligned (no target / reference points on the wings).
Every model has been slow going for UEDF models, I would give the Tomahawk my vote as the least painful to do (remember to match legs with feet in the sprue!).
I am looking forward in seeing what I can do to modify the wings on the jet mode to have them swept back.
If anything works out I will post pictures (It should be doable... I MUST do it because it will make them look cooler.. maybe use pins, or small card for slot...).
I am troubled by the balance "issue" for the Zen pods pointed out in the articles.
I will get my small force together and try some games (Math-tech?) and see where it leads.
Just thinking through, and I'm wondering if there isn't a promise or deadline that the Kevin hasn't broken?
Mouthwatering miniatures - Aesthetics are subjective, but there's a not insignificant percentage that disagrees. Multi Pose - Again, subjective. But a lot of people have pointed out it is in only the loosest definition, and not what would be considered standard for that claim. Consistent communication - Broken, often. Everything before retail - Broken in the shift to Waves. Backers before retailers - Attempted for GenCon, accomplished for Black Friday. EU friendly - Not broken yet, but set the groundwork to break. Multiple schedules and deadlines - Broken, broken and broken. I guess you could count "US before Black Friday", but as there are some US backers yet to receive stuff, who knows. And it's not like I'd trust Palladium's word on it at this point.
I'm sure there's some others that I've missed, but is there anything they've said that they've been correct on, beyond "It will be made"?
EDIT: Corrected incorrect usage of objective instead of subjective.
Morgan Vening wrote: Just thinking through, and I'm wondering if there isn't a promise or deadline that the Kevin hasn't broken?
Mouthwatering miniatures - Aesthetics are objective, but there's a not insignificant percentage that disagrees.
Multi Pose - Again, objective. But a lot of people have pointed out it is in only the loosest definition, and not what would be considered standard for that claim.
Consistent communication - Broken, often.
Everything before retail - Broken in the shift to Waves.
Backers before retailers - Attempted for GenCon, accomplished for Black Friday.
EU friendly - Not broken yet, but set the groundwork to break.
Multiple schedules and deadlines - Broken, broken and broken. I guess you could count "US before Black Friday", but as there are some US backers yet to receive stuff, who knows. And it's not like I'd trust Palladium's word on it at this point.
I'm sure there's some others that I've missed, but is there anything they've said that they've been correct on, beyond "It will be made"?
Minor bit of pedantry, but you mean "subjective"; objective things are those that are not open to interpretation by the observer. "Water is two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom" is objective. "This water is cold" is subjective, as each observer has their own idea of what constitutes "cold".
In terms of the content itself, I don't disagree with any of the observations. However, I get the feeling that you can expand that to nearly Palladium's entire operation for quite a long while now. It's still annoying when it happens, but I'm not sure it should be surprising to anyone. I think too many people hoped ND would be taking the lead and PB would just sit back, approve a few designs now and again, and collect the money (a la Lucasfilm and X-Wing). Sadly, that's not how it went down.
The worry now seeing entire package in-hand is accessibility (barrier to entry?) of a beginner player.
The two factions appear imbalanced and the model difficulty for assembly I would place at "advanced".
Getting a working army to play is not for the feint at heart.
I have a feeling that in my area to get anyone to play is to provide the other army of sell my services for assembly after getting the hang of these unlabeled sprues.
Krinsath wrote: Minor bit of pedantry, but you mean "subjective"; objective things are those that are not open to interpretation by the observer. "Water is two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom" is objective. "This water is cold" is subjective, as each observer has their own idea of what constitutes "cold".
Your right. I literally lost my brain. Though I could care less.
The above was just to set off your inner grammar/spelling/definition nazi. But truthfully, I'd forgotten the difference. I'll re-edit the initial post.
Krinsath wrote: In terms of the content itself, I don't disagree with any of the observations. However, I get the feeling that you can expand that to nearly Palladium's entire operation for quite a long while now. It's still annoying when it happens, but I'm not sure it should be surprising to anyone. I think too many people hoped ND would be taking the lead and PB would just sit back, approve a few designs now and again, and collect the money (a la Lucasfilm and X-Wing). Sadly, that's not how it went down.
Unfortunately, I was a part of that group. I knew at the time PB weren't particularly reliable (though I didn't know the extent, ie the Bill Coffin statement amongst many), but during the campaign those concerns tended to be soothed by that kind of claim that it was ND doing the heavy lifting, PB mostly acting as an intermediary to HG, and HG making sure it fit the legal and artistic requirements. As you said, it's sad that it didn't go down that way. And while it's possible the product still wouldn't be any good, I'm of the opinion that it'd have been closer to the ideal that I imagined when I initially backed.
Morgan Vening wrote: Just thinking through, and I'm wondering if there isn't a promise or deadline that the Kevin hasn't broken?
Mouthwatering miniatures - Aesthetics are subjective, but there's a not insignificant percentage that disagrees.
Multi Pose - Again, subjective. But a lot of people have pointed out it is in only the loosest definition, and not what would be considered standard for that claim.
Consistent communication - Broken, often.
Everything before retail - Broken in the shift to Waves.
Backers before retailers - Attempted for GenCon, accomplished for Black Friday.
EU friendly - Not broken yet, but set the groundwork to break.
Multiple schedules and deadlines - Broken, broken and broken. I guess you could count "US before Black Friday", but as there are some US backers yet to receive stuff, who knows. And it's not like I'd trust Palladium's word on it at this point.
I'm sure there's some others that I've missed, but is there anything they've said that they've been correct on, beyond "It will be made"?
Quite frankly, you're all wet. The only real complaint is that the product is late, you know, for reasons.
- The minis are exactly what I want - "true to look" scale models.
- The models can be posed, for what they are.
- PB provided adequate communication - that it's not what you wanted, or the message you wanted does not mean they didn't meet their end. Indeed, much of what I see is bitching and whining that would never be satisfied by anyone, God himself.
- I don't see the issue with Waves, or how that breaks "backers first". Retail got wave 1 after backers, and backers should get wave 2 before retail. Why is that a problem for anyone?
- PB shipped to backers before retailers, that definitely happened. PB should not have worried about ROW "grey market" sales, any more than Disney should have sweated Guardians of the Galaxy opening in the US before China.
- "EU-friendly" is a crock, and everybody should know that by now. If you back outside of your home country, you should expect to be hit with maximum customs and import fees. That goes for US backers of EU and Canadian projects, too. I have yet to back cross-border for this very reason. I'm sure PB does their best to minimize EU fees, but expecting zero seems completely unrealistic, given the experience over the past couple years.
- manufacturing is tough. In PB's case, they are doing production with a lot of hands involved, and I'm pretty sure they would have wanted to be at retail sooner rather than later. Unlike you, production delays actually cost PB future sales revenue that goes straight to their bottom line. PB has been pretty transparent. It's just shocking the amount of immaturity and hating going on.
It amuses me that people slam the manufacturer of the product they buy. Do you really want your stuff to have zero resale value? Like Sedition Wars? I'd think you'd at least want to be able to have the product command a market price that people would be happy to buy you out for whatever you originally paid, plus interest and shipping costs.
- PB provided adequate communication - that it's not what you wanted, or the message you wanted does not mean they didn't meet their end. Indeed, much of what I see is bitching and whining that would never be satisfied by anyone, God himself.
PB's primary failure in this KS is poor communications. Even they have admitted as much.
Just about anything else is understandable, but lousy communication is the fuel to the fire of backer discontent, here. It is the very core of why people ended up unhappy or even obsessively bitter (in Rick's case) and that could have been largely avoided with proper communications. All the subjective issues that people have are really down to poor communications.
Quite frankly, you're all wet. The only real complaint is that the product is late, you know, for reasons.
- The minis are exactly what I want - "true to look" scale models.
- The models can be posed, for what they are.
Very limited as I am finding out as I build, a fair bit of cutting and filling will be needed to differentiate the Destroids and Veritechs.
- PB provided adequate communication - that it's not what you wanted, or the message you wanted does not mean they didn't meet their end. Indeed, much of what I see is bitching and whining that would never be satisfied by anyone, God himself.
Most communications were of the "golly gee" type and rarely discussed actual reasons. Remember the original kickstarter was saying December release that year. The excuses get a little strained after a long period of time.
- I don't see the issue with Waves, or how that breaks "backers first". Retail got wave 1 after backers, and backers should get wave 2 before retail. Why is that a problem for anyone?
Funny, my local hobby store got a box same day I received shipment... in my case it was more a tie. The focus will be market saturation and the next big push would be Gencon next year. They have our money, some product shipped, very little incentive do much else at this time.
- PB shipped to backers before retailers, that definitely happened. PB should not have worried about ROW "grey market" sales, any more than Disney should have sweated Guardians of the Galaxy opening in the US before China.
Agreed.
- "EU-friendly" is a crock, and everybody should know that by now. If you back outside of your home country, you should expect to be hit with maximum customs and import fees. That goes for US backers of EU and Canadian projects, too. I have yet to back cross-border for this very reason. I'm sure PB does their best to minimize EU fees, but expecting zero seems completely unrealistic, given the experience over the past couple years.
There was time to research this and find a smooth transition, remember they increased the shipping fees when they originally promised a "Showdown" would not be charged any more that a "Battlecry" so there has been cost creep as they discover shipping costs.
- manufacturing is tough. In PB's case, they are doing production with a lot of hands involved, and I'm pretty sure they would have wanted to be at retail sooner rather than later.
Utter BS, all the steps for each part of the product are measureable understandable processes that are mature, not cutting edge in need of development.
I develop processes, evaluate suppliers and track project target dates, it is not magic that makes it happen.
Unlike you, production delays actually cost PB future sales revenue that goes straight to their bottom line.
Ahem, 1.5 million from backers money.
PB has been pretty transparent.
How long did it take to find out how the 3D models designed were incompatible for the manufacturer?
Any information given on the vetting of the models of decisions on the mold designs?
It's just shocking the amount of immaturity and hating going on.
The "hating" is PB inability to manage customer expectations.
They have taken pre-order on books at their webstore that are still waiting for publication after two years...
It was a missed opportunity to publish MORE transparently the various trials and tribulations of the release, at least us as customers could have been engaged more as the "drama" unfolded.
It could have been a reality TV show... the personalities involved would be colorful enough...
It amuses me that people slam the manufacturer of the product they buy.
A tone of superiority.
If a supplier does not provide as per expectations they deserve to be held in account.
Do you really want your stuff to have zero resale value? Like Sedition Wars? I'd think you'd at least want to be able to have the product command a market price that people would be happy to buy you out for whatever you originally paid, plus interest and shipping costs.
Most who have bought into this are fans of Robotech.
Not PB books (typically), but an old anime series they would like to simulate on tabletop.
Expanding the consumer base would be nice but many people under the age of 30 at least would know little about the show (other than Macross).
I think few are worried about resale value if they are of the above group.
I played PB roleplaying games way back in the day and to see the various drama from them again is rather irritating.
You could say it is consistent so no surprises but when stuck with them for an IP you enjoy it is of little consolation.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Quite frankly, you're all wet. The only real complaint is that the product is late, you know, for reasons.
- The minis are exactly what I want - "true to look" scale models.
- The models can be posed, for what they are.
I did say these were subjective, but while I won't say it's a majority that disagree with you, I will say it's more than an insignificant percentage. Way more than the "half dozen haters" that used to get bandied about. You're free to feel that's not a problem. I, and other's think it is.
JohnHwangDD wrote: - PB provided adequate communication - that it's not what you wanted, or the message you wanted does not mean they didn't meet their end. Indeed, much of what I see is bitching and whining that would never be satisfied by anyone, God himself.
I guess this one is subjective too. Though it was PB (Update 102) that said there would be weekly updates. We didn't set the expectation. They did.
And while there are definitely people that won't be satisfied regardless, if you think that this communication was adequate, that's your opinion. Some people will be happy regardless of what's given them. That's the counterargument. Take a look at Kingdom Death. Similar numbers. Similar income. A year late, and counting. And very little open hostility. Why? Because he does a great job of communicating.
JohnHwangDD wrote: - I don't see the issue with Waves, or how that breaks "backers first". Retail got wave 1 after backers, and backers should get wave 2 before retail. Why is that a problem for anyone?
The original promise was that backers would get everything, all inclusive, no waves, before Retailers got anything. This was unilaterally changed when they realized the task ahead of them was significantly larger than they were able to accomplish. I didn't find it particularly onerous at the time, but then again, I also expected they were further along (based on statements they said) than they apparently were. Cutting out Wave 2 items from the first shipment, to deliver in May/June to allow release at GenCon was one thing. What resulted, was another.
JohnHwangDD wrote: - PB shipped to backers before retailers, that definitely happened. PB should not have worried about ROW "grey market" sales, any more than Disney should have sweated Guardians of the Galaxy opening in the US before China.
It only "definitely happened" if you start changing the words unilaterally. PB shipped to SOME backers before retail. Not what they promised. The grey market stuff is irrelevant. The promise was ALL backers. Not all backers, by region. We live in a global marketplace. If they wanted to do it as a regional thing, then it should have been explicitly stated.
JohnHwangDD wrote: - "EU-friendly" is a crock, and everybody should know that by now. If you back outside of your home country, you should expect to be hit with maximum customs and import fees. That goes for US backers of EU and Canadian projects, too. I have yet to back cross-border for this very reason. I'm sure PB does their best to minimize EU fees, but expecting zero seems completely unrealistic, given the experience over the past couple years.
Then they shouldn't have promised it. You can argue they shouldn't have promised it, and I'd probably agree with you. But people made an assessment based on what Palladium said, and Palladium are positioning themselves for the promise to be broken. I tell you I'm going to pick up the fees on something, then after you've bought it, I reinstate those fees, you'd be OK with that?
JohnHwangDD wrote: - manufacturing is tough. In PB's case, they are doing production with a lot of hands involved, and I'm pretty sure they would have wanted to be at retail sooner rather than later. Unlike you, production delays actually cost PB future sales revenue that goes straight to their bottom line. PB has been pretty transparent. It's just shocking the amount of immaturity and hating going on.
I call bullcrap on that. PB have consistently been opaque. Three months out (September 26th, Update 113) from the initial delivery date (December), they were still saying they shold be on target, for everything (Monster, FPA, MPA, Super Valks, everything), with both completion of manufacturing and shipping from China included. Things got worse from there, but that's the starting point. That's not transparent. That's either being intentionally decietful, or woefully, painfully, criminally ignorant. Note, they hadn't even received prototypes for some things at that point, let alone test sprues. I never minded the delays. But it's apparent that we were only "informed" of stuff when it was well past the point we should have been told.
JohnHwangDD wrote: It amuses me that people slam the manufacturer of the product they buy. Do you really want your stuff to have zero resale value? Like Sedition Wars? I'd think you'd at least want to be able to have the product command a market price that people would be happy to buy you out for whatever you originally paid, plus interest and shipping costs.
And I was so confidant that I wouldn't get that product I sold out for what I originally paid, minus interest and shipping costs. And was thankful to do so, because noone seemed actually interested in paying me my actual costs. Yes, some of the initial prices for RRT stock got some nice numbers. Recent stuff hasn't seemed to have attracted those prices though. It'll be interesting to see what it starts going for now that it's not actually a rarity.
But that doesn't excuse PB's broken promises, and the after market aspect is really quite irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, PB's Kickstarter has attracted a lot more ire than other, similar Kickstarters, and the apparent argument for that happening is "haters gonna hate" (and that apparently the haters will be solely responsible if this fails), and not PB woefully mismanaged the project since they took over communications the day after the campaign ended. Sure, some people will complain about anything, but PB sticking their head in the sand and not realizing that some of those complaints are legitimate, don't help either.
You're entitled to your opinion. I strenuously, vociferously disagree.
JohnHwangDD wrote: - PB shipped to backers before retailers, that definitely happened. PB should not have worried about ROW "grey market" sales, any more than Disney should have sweated Guardians of the Galaxy opening in the US before China.
Problem is they said "you'll all receive your stuff before we ship to retailers". The "you'll receive your stuff before we ship to your world's zone's retailers" was added after the fact, on a very significant "I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further" move.
And now I could buy boxes from elsewhere, have it at least a month before my KS stuff gets over here, without all of the KS's drama, and for the same I've paid for the KS. But I'm supposed to be happy about it, because... reasons?
Do you really want your stuff to have zero resale value? Like Sedition Wars? I'd think you'd at least want to be able to have the product command a market price that people would be happy to buy you out for whatever you originally paid, plus interest and shipping costs.
I don't care at all about resale value. I'm in this KS for the Macross/Battletech stuff, and I'm not planning on selling.
I don't care at all about resale value. I'm in this KS for the Macross/Battletech stuff, and I'm not planning on selling.
This. My distrust/dislike of Palladium is why I pledged the minimum; my long time interest in the anime is what overcame that distrust. I also pledged specifically because Palladium said another company would be taking the helm on this project (namely Ninja Division). *Maury Povich Lie Detector Results voice* That was a lie. The fact that ND has had its own troubles come to light since doesn't negate the fact that Palladium told yet another lie during the KS and pretty much took over the project the day after the funding was locked in.
I have no intention of selling my stuff because my only other option would be to spend years collecting old 1/200 kits like Paulson did and I had no interest in investing the time, hassle, and money in doing that. My Robotech stuff will either sit unused or be used in whatever way I want and yet that has no bearing on what palladium promised during the campaign as well as after.
There's one shop in town that I know of that's carrying RRT. They received a shipment of expansions last week, and got their cores this week.
My boxes became available for pick up today (based on attempted delivery yesterday while I was at work).
Also;
JohnHwangDD wrote: Do you really want your stuff to have zero resale value? Like Sedition Wars? I'd think you'd at least want to be able to have the product command a market price that people would be happy to buy you out for whatever you originally paid, plus interest and shipping costs.
Umm, this is ignoring supply and demand. Why would people looking to sell (in part or in full) be happy for the supply to rise significantly?
My admittedly layperson understanding of such product markets leads me to believe that if the demand remains the same, having a low supply is better for the sellers than a higher one, unless by some miracle the increased supply gets the word out and demand skyrockets in response (ie; X-Wing).
That said, this only applies to whatever percentage of the backer base intends to sell (in full or in part, which does include me in the latter group).
Hell, we've already seen it play out on eBay; Battle Cry boxes were selling for like 450+ for a while, but the last time I looked many of them were just sitting there waiting for bids or buy outs (and yes, this is controlling for the difference between BC's with wave 2 and those without).
The secondary market doesn't seem to be dead (at least from my last perusal), but it does seem to be cooling down, which again as a layperson, makes me think that supply and demand are balancing.
And that's not going to get any hotter with another thousand boxes on the market (in stores and in backers hands alike).
JohnHwangDD wrote: The minis are exactly what I want - "true to look" scale models.
so from your response it could be assumed you have assembled your models then? if so could you relay pertinent info about how to remove some of the small pieces without damaging them to those who seem to be having problems doing that? or how you aligned the misaligned pieces? or even what glue you used? or how you resolved certain pieces that do not fit where they are to go on the model? inquiring minds would like to know I'm sure, or is it you just had low standards? just curious is all.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The minis are exactly what I want - "true to look" scale models.
so from your response it could be assumed you have assembled your models then? if so could you relay pertinent info about how to remove some of the small pieces without damaging them to those who seem to be having problems doing that? or how you aligned the misaligned pieces? or even what glue you used? or how you resolved certain pieces that do not fit where they are to go on the model? inquiring minds would like to know I'm sure, or is it you just had low standards? just curious is all.
Also any word on Wave 2? also how would you feel if you saw friends of yours and stores around you who did not back this project suddenly start getting the games, before you a backer even got yours.
JohnHwangDD wrote: See, this tjhread does a great job of confirming everything negative I've been thinking about the RRT backers. Good job, team.
And with that, I'm out. Hope you can enjoy your toys. I know I'll enjoy mine.
you never answered the questions.
Also it seems more and more are becoming "Haters" as you call them, it does not bode well for what many of us hoped would be at least a decent game which is not really what we got.
JohnHwangDD wrote: See, this tjhread does a great job of confirming everything negative I've been thinking about the RRT backers. Good job, team.
And with that, I'm out. Hope you can enjoy your toys. I know I'll enjoy mine.
Okay.
I carefully commented on a rather long and honest opinion on the PB and Robotech state of things.
I had tried to point out a few pertinent facts on the matter.
I would have enjoyed a retort.
As pointed out, I truly enjoy the challenge of my "toys" they are getting me what I wanted with a little more work than I planned.
I would suggest that stating strong opinions should expect a few back and possibly defending them.
Lol, seems like someone pulled a cartman. I hope not all PB defenders are this passive aggressive since they'll probably be the biggest pushers of this game, and seriously, who wants to play with someone with that attitude?
Forar wrote: Whelp, I finally have my stuff in. Have separated out my friend's boxes from the pile, now to see if anyone wishes to snag some expansion kits.
I have bought a truly excessive amount of paper towels.
Just in case.
Hopefully some folks take a few expansions off my hands (for unseen, for dioramas, for RRT games, whatever), lest I struggle to keep my head above water.
... seriously, this is a gakload of plastic.
Edit: also, I found all the white knights. They seem to have retreated to your page, Mike. Ye gods, I'm seeing the lightest of comments dogpiled over there.
I have a bad habit of holding onto stuff that I no longer play because one never knows when that game system might make a come back
I still have all my Battletech mini's including Unseen
So far
Enough Warhammers to fill out another Destroid Tomahawks Squad
Enough Riflemans to fill out a Destroid Defender Squad (as soon as I dig out my Third Battalion stoage box
Enough Archers to fill out another Spartan Squad
Enough Longbow (IIRC) to fill out Phalanx Squad
Pheonix Hawks to fill out two more Valk Squad but only Battliods
BattleMasters...
I've a lot of unseen Mechs I've kept (Reinforce Regiment Inner Sphere)
Just a few pics and pardon the trash desk but making terrain and slapping together models
Forar you were indeed quite correct that RDF mini's are the same size as battletech but the Zent's mecha are to damn big for me to even convert the Marauders for use
I would really like to know if theyare eventually going to release the other Robotech Mecha's lol
Edit
bringing some Battletech units into play
Black Widow Company for the Warhammers
Grey Death legion for the Riflemans
Archers are from 7th Cav and 1st Royalty
Longbow's are from Skulls
Forar wrote: I have bought a truly excessive amount of paper towels.
Just in case.
Hopefully some folks take a few expansions off my hands (for unseen, for dioramas, for RRT games, whatever), lest I struggle to keep my head above water.
... seriously, this is a gakload of plastic.
Edit: also, I found all the white knights. They seem to have retreated to your page, Mike. Ye gods, I'm seeing the lightest of comments dogpiled over there.
Forar wrote: I have bought a truly excessive amount of paper towels.
Just in case.
Hopefully some folks take a few expansions off my hands (for unseen, for dioramas, for RRT games, whatever), lest I struggle to keep my head above water.
... seriously, this is a gakload of plastic.
Edit: also, I found all the white knights. They seem to have retreated to your page, Mike. Ye gods, I'm seeing the lightest of comments dogpiled over there.
Complaining is frowned upon there
No more than the comments here tend to push people away from here unless they are totally upset. You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game. You don't see that so much here. Problem is the way things were handled have polarized much of the community. Sad, but there it is. Happy people are sick of the crap and unhappy people are sick of rainbows.
Conrad Turner wrote: The worst thing that could happen so far as I am concerned is for PB to ship my decals, then state that there is not the demand for the product that was anticipated and no further work is to be done. They will get to keep my money, and I have one expensive set of decals that I don't have models for.
And I still don't know who I can buy from in the UK, so I can't even say I can pick up some Valks retail!
orders@palladiumbooks.com wrote:Palladium Books Shipping Notification
Shipment #5156 IOP - USPS 12/3/2014
Hi
This shipment notification is to alert you that a package is in transit to:
Ship To Address:
Me
My Address
The package was sent on 12/3/2014
Oh dear. The final proof that Kevin has 2 brains. One is lost and the other is out looking for it! Despite me having sent them an e-mail explaining that they should retain my decals for shipment with wave 2, they've gone on and sent them. Given their track record of fulfilled promises, I now expect to have to pay tax and handling based on the total value of my pledge just to receive the $5 decals, with another lot being charged when (if) they send the rest of it. So long any hope of EU backers not having to pay over the odds to receive what we were promised - and this has damaged any future KS backing I do, I'll always have in the back of my mind that I'll have to pay an extra 20% + Royal Mail moneygrabbing on top of non EU pledges, so I won't be able to pledge as much.
And at the MSRP, PB will get buckleys out of me. I may get a VT set if I spot one in a bargain bin just to paint one in a real-world style and one in the anime style, but PB are getting nada from me evermore. I hope no other company gets sucked into dealing with this bunch of Grade 4 Ignorant <Expletive Deleted>.
No more than the comments here tend to push people away from here unless they are totally upset. You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game.
Well, I would have actually painted minis and played the game. Alas, PB decided I am a secondary concern.
- PB shipped to backers before retailers, that definitely happened. PB should not have worried about ROW "grey market" sales, any more than Disney should have sweated Guardians of the Galaxy opening in the US before China.
I'm a backer, and I still don't have mine. No mention was made during the campaign that Australian and New Zealand backers would be geeting their shipment over 3 months after retailers in the US receive theirs, so you can kindly toss out that blatantly incorrect statement.
- PB shipped to backers before retailers, that definitely happened. PB should not have worried about ROW "grey market" sales, any more than Disney should have sweated Guardians of the Galaxy opening in the US before China.
I'm a backer, and I still don't have mine. No mention was made during the campaign that Australian and New Zealand backers would be geeting their shipment over 3 months after retailers in the US receive theirs, so you can kindly toss out that blatantly incorrect statement.
More to the point, the contrary of that statement was actually mentioned, i.e., that backers would receive their stuff before any retailer got some.
Sounds like these individuals are new to international business scene.
Under the impression there are a lot of reaction then proactive
So far
Guess work on slapping the mini's together (simple after awhile)
The small rod (like the gun barrels) snapping off and shooting across the desk (plastic rod of the right size does nicely)
Gaps slapping two piece's together. Filler or paint
Next set I am really debating magnetizing the plate and the feet of the Mech's
You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game
So whats the consensus?
Great rules, nicely balanced gameplay with fantastic easy to assemble and paint models?
Not at all, just because people are happy does not mean that they are unrealistic. There have been a couple threads and reviews. People have been helping each other out with things like the screwed up arms for the Veritech in guardian mode and also on how to paint the minis.
Here is one review and them something I added
My two cents... A comprehensive Robotech Tactics critique
Initial Kickstarter: All in all the Kickstarter went along pretty amazingly with a lot of extra products being unlocked for those of us who jumped in to support at the Battlecry + levels. All of the extra miniatures definitely made the investment pay off in the long run.
Pre-Production: This is Palladium's first time stepping up to the plate in the miniature gaming market. I don't think they appreciated how many small details are involved with creating an initial production run and so, consequentially, there were delays. I for one, fully expected there to be significant delays because of the stated reasons and wasn't really shocked. Anybody out there who thinks that a first time endeavor is going to stay on a hypothetical production schedule is just naïve.....but in the end, they ended up designing a product that is quite loyal to the show and the RPG that we all loved so much.
Delivery: Again, if you didn't think this was going to be seriously delayed, you are delusional. That said, I don't think they took the holiday mail traffic into consideration when they were putting forth their timelines. I am fortunate enough to be in the US, so things are far quicker for us than the ROW supporters, but international security makes shipping almost anything overseas extremely complicated and significantly impacts the speed of your product receipt. I do think they could have done a better job explaining that, but I'm sure the entire company is a bit frustrated with all the delays and complications themselves. They're human also.
GenCon: I know this is a point of contention for the ROW supporters but the point many people do not realize is that unless this game makes money, it will be dead in the water right now. We all want more generations of mecha, but we will never get Invid models unless Palladium Books thinks that it is worth the cost and aggravation of producing them. I know that if I knew trying to make a product would lead to a year of people calling me an donkey-cave and sending me hate mail for little to no profit, I would just say screw it. All of us were a bit delayed because of the GenCon decision, but it was a necessary evil for the good of the game.
Model Design: This is a mixed bag. In the end, after they are constructed, we have some very nice looking miniatures to push around the table. However, the parts and sprue design is clearly deficient in some areas. The Zentraedi are fairly well designed, although some of the tiny parts such as autocannon barrels and Recon Pod parts were poorly allocated on the sprue, leading to difficulty in keeping them intact. A minor and fixable mistake if you have modeling experience. The UEDF forces suffer from an overcomplication of parts that didn't need separate casting as well as a critical lack of labeling when it comes to the arm designs on the Valkyries and Spartans. This is something that can be easily addressed in future production runs, but for now it means that those without miniature modeling experience are going to be frustrated. I think that the problem is that the miniatures seem to have been approached from the standpoint that they were trying to make a product for people who want to build models, when what they were supposed to be making was a product for people who want to play with toy veritechs and battlepods on a table. Many wargamers enjoy the building/crafting portion, but for a new game on the market, the parts really should have been easier to construct. Save the complicated models for named characters and let the modeling hobbyists have their field day there.
Rulebook: Again, some really positive things and some serious problems here. Fortunately, redesigning a rulebook is much easier and far less costly than redesigning model sprues, so it's likely we will see a revision of this fairly soon. The Good: The rules are fairly well organized and the quality of the book is pretty fair. The art is nice, although it does suffer from a lack of photos of actual product, this is due to the fact that it had to be written and designed before they even HAD final product to photograph for it, so I assume future editions will rectify that problem. The fluff is nice without being overdone and the support material concerning campaigns, painting guides, etc... is a good addition. The Bad: Wargamers like to scratch build armies, and without a per-model cost, that is pretty much impossible. Additionally, the failure to incorporate CRITICAL rules about the factions or stats for upgrade options for various mecha is a tragic oversight. Cards get lost and damaged so anybody with half a brain is going to have to create their own army roster sheets so that the precious cards can be sealed away someplace for safety. Having ALL the rules in the main book is essential and absolutely needs to be fixed in the next edition.
Gameplay: Here is where they really got the high marks. I've had the chance to play and overwatch a few games. The play is quick, dynamic and engaging. Both players are actively involved at every step of a turn and all the games I've experienced have really come down to the wire in the end. The rules give you enough options to keep things tactically enjoyable without bogging you down with endless rules debates that many other games suffer from. There are a few areas that could use a bit more refining but on the whole, I give them two thumbs up on play design.
Summary: In the end, we got (or will get) a good product. It isn't perfect and some corrections are definitely needed in some areas, but for the first production run of a brand new game, it's pretty darn good. My opinion is that as long as the egos get left out of the equations, we're going to have a really diverse and fun game to play in the next couple of years, but if we truly want that, it's up to us to make it happen. This is a product that is plagued by licensing complications that make the US Tax code look organized, so the fact that the day has arrived where we can even play this is a miracle in my book. Would I have liked easier to build models, faster delivery, more comprehensive rulebook.....absolutely, but am I happy with what we have so far.......Absolutely. I'm willing to support it now because I know it will only improve from here. Then again, I've been gaming for 38 years, so perhaps age has given me a bit more patience than younger crowds.
But that's my two cents... Your mileage may vary.
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Michael Arnold
14 hrs · Edited.
After reading Max's review of the game I wanted to add something that has come up a few times. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
First off, if you have the rulebook and know how the game is set up you will also know that having the Faction rules in the book would have been a great idea. Also the cards should have been a bit bigger and easier to read. Those are two things that SHOULD have been done and were lacking.
The problem comes in on complaints on the rulebook and how it does not have all the unit costs and upgrades in it. The more I have thought this through the more I disagree with some that the individual unit costs should have been in the book.
Here is my reasoning. First Tactics is a Squadron Based game. It is not a individual figures based game. Units are moved and played as squadrons or part of a squadron. None of the individual units is played as a single entity like you will find in most other minis wargames. The problem comes from assuming that RRT is similar to other minis games and the past history of playing games where you typically buy units individually and not as part of a larger unit. If you assume that it is like games you are previously accustomed to playing and looking for individual unit costs you won't find them.
Also keep in mind that each individual unit appears in a various squadrons and in various factions. If the rules had included the point costs for every combination it would have been messy and confusing. Keep in mind that many units have different upgrades if they are in different factions such as the VF that has multiple missile upgrades with the UEDF but only improvised bombs with the Malcontents. Now.....they should have included some force organization charts. That I think we all agree on.
Imagine the Spartan being listed with all the possible upgrades and costs. You would have to list it something like this and then do the same for every single other unit in the game!
Spartan
UEDF Brawler Squadron (Core)
70 Points
2 x Spartan
2 x Tomahawk
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11 Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (10 Points)
Shock Baton Special* (5 Points)
These points are all based on the costs from the squadrons cards. Note that Squadrons get some bang for the buck and get discounts for the squadron leaders.
There are also some complaints on the ROW shipping here and there and also strategy discussions are cropping up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and we are still working on some Fan Made squadrons like a card with 3 VT's for Vermillion Squadron and VF-1J's that should have been in the book. I'm also upgrading my cards with color coding to match missile descriptions with missile ammo boxes. A few have downloaded my files and are playing with them making the graphics look better. Shame too since I already spent a lot of time printing and laminating the ones I have. Now I might have to sell or trade those off and do it all over since I'm too ADD to play with cards that I know I improved on.
Mike1975 wrote: No more than the comments here tend to push people away from here unless they are totally upset. You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game. You don't see that so much here. Problem is the way things were handled have polarized much of the community. Sad, but there it is. Happy people are sick of the crap and unhappy people are sick of rainbows.
Whatever happened to 'two wrongs don't make a right'? Just because some people find areas particularly negative doesn't mean there needs to be 'balance brought to the force' with a somehow equally offset place of unwavering positivity.
Just because Dakka or the KS comments might be full of negative donkey caves (truly we are a den of scum and villainy... though that might just be me) doesn't mean that being positive donkey caves is helping.
Note, I have seen you ask for decorum from all parties, but it's your page, so like a forum moderator, it comes down to you to change it for the better if you so desire. If you see it as 'working as intended', then great, and obviously no place is going to be for everybody, but surely you can see the potential difficulties and issues being created here? As has been noted many times in the past; your page, your rules, but that's a delicate power to wield.
Recognizing the polarization and just saying 'yup, that's how it is' strikes me as a tragically missed opportunity to help address that very problem.
And as noted by others, I would have loved to actually attempt to build and paint some of this stuff. Wanna know why you haven't seen any?
Mike. There is absolutely no rational reason to not have the points costs in the book. Or at the very least have split them out into their own "codex" for the three armies.
I think you are trying really hard to find logic in what is really just a slip up. I equate the lack of point and upgrade info in the books with the lack of paint on the template and certain dice pips.
Of the more than 5000 backers, we're seeing a handful of constant complainers and a handful that are super fans. The rest of us are in the middle.
I'm not happy with every aspect of how this was handled, but I am happy with what I've gotten. And having a FB page that promotes doing the actual gaming stuff of the game without all the angst that other places have (and little else) is not a bad thing, it's actually nice to be able to see what others are doing or to read their ideas.
You can't post a positive thing about this on the KS comments without the obsessively angry trying to tell you how angry they are and how wrong you are for not being angry all the time, as well. It's tedious and has done nothing other than chase away most people from wanting to comment there.
And as noted by others, I would have loved to actually attempt to build and paint some of this stuff. Wanna know why you haven't seen any?
Because I got my gak yesterday.
In my case, it isn't just the delay as I've had it for a few weeks now (only a year late for 1/3 fulfillment of the sculpts! yay!). It's also a lack of enthusiasm due to Palladium's actions over the past year, discouragement based on the parts layout and the hassle I've seen someone else having with doing it, and a few issues with the rules. Maybe the possibility of an actual game this weekend will motivate me to put some together but my opponent seems to be having second thoughts about playing the game after putting more models together and is doing the procrastination dance recently.
n815e wrote: You can't post a positive thing about this on the KS comments without the obsessively angry trying to tell you how angry they are and how wrong you are for not being angry all the time, as well. It's tedious and has done nothing other than chase away most people from wanting to comment there.
Oh just tell Rick to shut up and throw him a cookie. But no raisins. Raisins make him cranky.
The KS comments being a cesspool is well known, Khaleesi, but as I noted, that doesn't mean there needs to be an "opposite cesspool". It is entirely possible to have a "don't be a fethstick" rule of thumb, and apply it in general.
While there have been complaints about this thread in particular as well, I feel confident that if I feel so inclined, I can post about building some figures, playing out a game, and people would hear me out. There might be some jabs fired from the peanut gallery, but that'll be anywhere.
I wouldn't, however, expect people to jump down my throat for daring to do so.
Whereas I'm seeing even the *faintest* hint of critique, even with cited reasoning and sources getting dogpiled and image-meme'd obnoxiously on Mike's page.
warboss wrote: In my case, it isn't just the delay as I've had it for a few weeks now (only a year late for 1/3 fulfillment of the sculpts! yay!). It's also a lack of enthusiasm due to Palladium's actions over the past year, discouragement based on the parts layout and the hassle I've seen someone else having with doing it, and a few issues with the rules. Maybe the possibility of an actual game this weekend will motivate me to put some together but my opponent seems to be having second thoughts about playing the game after putting more models together and is doing the procrastination dance recently.
I'll admit some apathy as well, especially with the idea of it likely taking dozens of hours to get my figures built. Obviously like any project, it is about just sitting down, getting started, and taking it at a reasonable pace, but between being uncertain if/when my friends will be building, or even free to get in a game, or how the hell I'm going to transport these things across town safely to do so, and needing to get down all the rules and whatnot, I'm not exactly jumping for joy here either. Between a busy social schedule, I might find a little time to assemble a couple on Sunday, but I'd also like to set aside some time to just hang out without feeling like I have to do so, y'know, and the next 3 days are packed from start to finish.
So we'll see.
Also I'm bad at building stuff and I'm afraid you guys will kick me out of the club house once you see the crimes against gaming that will be my finished results. >.>
Swabby wrote: Mike. There is absolutely no rational reason to not have the points costs in the book. Or at the very least have split them out into their own "codex" for the three armies.
I think you are trying really hard to find logic in what is really just a slip up. I equate the lack of point and upgrade info in the books with the lack of paint on the template and certain dice pips.
It just wasn't thought about, and its bad.
For what it's worth, there are arguments in favor of not having the point costs in the main rulebook.
Of course, a lot of those arguments go hand-in-hand with "You better damned well publish the point costs somewhere accessible, if you're not going to put the points in the book." Because not everyone enjoys the thrill of making blind purchases or playing the "Guess how many boxes of that unit you'll need to buy without knowing the legal formations" game.
But not having the points in the rulebook isn't unheard of.
Swabby wrote: Mike. There is absolutely no rational reason to not have the points costs in the book. Or at the very least have split them out into their own "codex" for the three armies.
I think you are trying really hard to find logic in what is really just a slip up. I equate the lack of point and upgrade info in the books with the lack of paint on the template and certain dice pips.
It just wasn't thought about, and its bad.
Really? I explained it quite clearly that a cost per unit does not go with the design of the game and posting every combination under every individual unit is also not the best thing to do. They simply should have posted Force Orgs and maybe the possible upgrades to each card in the book.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
n815e wrote: How polarized is the RRT community, in reality?
Of the more than 5000 backers, we're seeing a handful of constant complainers and a handful that are super fans. The rest of us are in the middle.
I'm not happy with every aspect of how this was handled, but I am happy with what I've gotten. And having a FB page that promotes doing the actual gaming stuff of the game without all the angst that other places have (and little else) is not a bad thing, it's actually nice to be able to see what others are doing or to read their ideas.
You can't post a positive thing about this on the KS comments without the obsessively angry trying to tell you how angry they are and how wrong you are for not being angry all the time, as well. It's tedious and has done nothing other than chase away most people from wanting to comment there.
Too True, that is what I strive for. But for some when they are upset Anyone that is not just as upset seems to be on the other side of the fence and must be challenged and No I do not try to establish the Anti-DakkaDakka or whatever forums. If I did that there would be no reason, it would be just as empty as the PB Forums and with good reason.
Mike1975 wrote: No more than the comments here tend to push people away from here unless they are totally upset. You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game. You don't see that so much here. Problem is the way things were handled have polarized much of the community. Sad, but there it is. Happy people are sick of the crap and unhappy people are sick of rainbows.
Whatever happened to 'two wrongs don't make a right'? Just because some people find areas particularly negative doesn't mean there needs to be 'balance brought to the force' with a somehow equally offset place of unwavering positivity.
Just because Dakka or the KS comments might be full of negative donkey caves (truly we are a den of scum and villainy... though that might just be me) doesn't mean that being positive donkey caves is helping.
Note, I have seen you ask for decorum from all parties, but it's your page, so like a forum moderator, it comes down to you to change it for the better if you so desire. If you see it as 'working as intended', then great, and obviously no place is going to be for everybody, but surely you can see the potential difficulties and issues being created here? As has been noted many times in the past; your page, your rules, but that's a delicate power to wield.
Recognizing the polarization and just saying 'yup, that's how it is' strikes me as a tragically missed opportunity to help address that very problem.
I never said it was appropriate, just that is the way it is. That is a description of the facts as I see them. It's a careful balance trying to maintain a level of fairness for both sides and I have had to PM a few on both sides or just outright tell people to drop it a few notches such as NMI constantly coming to the defense of anything said against PB. I wanted to tell him to "Be the Bigger Man" (Inside reference that some of you might know, and to expect criticism and not to automatically attack it at every turn. A few others on both sides have needed to be told to cool it.
And as noted by others, I would have loved to actually attempt to build and paint some of this stuff. Wanna know why you haven't seen any?
Because I got my gak yesterday.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and you can find basic Force Orgs on the link on my Sig. I did those a long time ago. I might need to go back and spruce them up.
Maybe Ninja Division wrote the rule book FIRST before the units were even finished/fleshed out, and maybe they added or changed the models/units later. So the choice of including point costs and all the special rules in the main rulebook could not be accomplished.
Also, if you have ever played other Ninja Division/Soda Pop Miniature games, they are like this as well. Points costs and extra special rules are on the unit cards themselves, not in the rulebook.
I don't know if this has been covered in the KS comments black hole of reason, Mike's Facebook land of rainbow farts, or Dakka's hive of hater scum and villainy but I decided to do some catching up on Robotech and found this:
On Saturady we played again at our local store and drove up some interest in others. Someone bought a Tomahawk / Defender Destoids core box and it contained cards neither of us Battle Cry backers had. The cards were: UDEF Brwaler Destroid Squadron Malcontents Main Battle Squadron Malcontents Heavy Destroid Squadron Malcontents Air Defense Squadron and 2 of the small Malcontents Assault Destroid Squad cards.
That is disappointing. Apparently the battlecry destroids don't come with options that the supplement boxes do. Forar, if you get a chance since you have most of the add on boxes, can you double check to make sure the other stuff like Artillery Pods and such aren't different as well? I'm fine with this in theory as long as the company is upfront about it before taking any money (see X-wing for how to do this fairly and correctly) but the fact that they've pruned out utility from the freebie versions without any mention of it is yet another shady move on Palladium's part.
Tamwulf wrote: Maybe, and I'm going out on a limb here...
Maybe Ninja Division wrote the rule book FIRST before the units were even finished/fleshed out, and maybe they added or changed the models/units later. So the choice of including point costs and all the special rules in the main rulebook could not be accomplished.
Also, if you have ever played other Ninja Division/Soda Pop Miniature games, they are like this as well. Points costs and extra special rules are on the unit cards themselves, not in the rulebook.
Good to know, I don't play any of their other stuff and have never seen it.
It'd be nice if there was a list of what every box should have. I've seen at least 2 versions on Mike's page that started such a list, but both of them were incomplete.
Obviously such things will take time, as the expansion versions of wave one probably weren't in particularly high demand (by the time you got up to around 4 of them, it was often a better idea to just pitch in the extra $50 or so and snag another Battle Cry), but hopefully that info is made available.
Hell, ideally it'd be on PB's site somewhere, so that people (backers and retail alike) could check to make sure they had everything in the box. Or a checklist inside the expansion boxes?
But I agree, if that's the case (I haven't done an exhaustive review of all the cards and whatnot), it's a shame.
Moreso based on the cards being necessary to play. Tying back to our discussion of the book; if *everything* were in the books, it would be an annoyance, but could be worked around. Without the cards, there are stats we just straight up don't have.
Luckily for me, I don't really care to play the Malcontents, but I'm sure this'll be something some players have to address in time.
warboss wrote: I don't know if this has been covered in the KS comments black hole of reason, Mike's Facebook land of rainbow farts, or Dakka's hive of hater scum and villainy but I decided to do some catching up on Robotech and found this:
On Saturady we played again at our local store and drove up some interest in others. Someone bought a Tomahawk / Defender Destoids core box and it contained cards neither of us Battle Cry backers had.
The cards were:
UDEF Brwaler Destroid Squadron
Malcontents Main Battle Squadron
Malcontents Heavy Destroid Squadron
Malcontents Air Defense Squadron
and 2 of the small Malcontents Assault Destroid Squad cards.
Some of it was an error by PB, the Brawler Squadron and Heavy Destroid Squadron can be formed with what is in the main box. That being said the others cannot be so it makes sense to have them in the add-on boxes. Now, PB is aware and at the very least they have agreed to send me something to corroborate what I have on my cards and compare them so that people will be able to print and use them just the same. I believe that they are working on having them in Wave 2 packets as well to make up for it. The concern I have and that I did bring up is that the Supers and Veritechs have upgrades for Long Range Missiles that give them 8 ammo, not 6. Technically the RPG description allows this but it is not cannon and does not match up with the cartoon. I've asked them to clarify and reprint the cards with ammo 6 as appropriate. I had all mine with 6 and don't plan on changing them until I get confirmation from PB. This should all happen Friday or Saturday.
That is disappointing. Apparently the battlecry destroids don't come with options that the supplement boxes do. Forar, if you get a chance since you have most of the add on boxes, can you double check to make sure the other stuff like Artillery Pods and such aren't different as well? I'm fine with this in theory as long as the company is upfront about it before taking any money (see X-wing for how to do this fairly and correctly) but the fact that they've pruned out utility from the freebie versions without any mention of it is yet another shady move on Palladium's part.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is the list I made
Large cards:
UEDF
UEDF Force
Armored Destroid Squadron
Area Denial Destroid Squadron
Valkyrie Squadron
2 Valkyrie Squad
Fire Support Destroid Squad
Close Quarters Destroid Squad
Artillery Destroid Squad
Missing Brawler Destroid
Wave 2 Ghost, Lancer, Super VT,
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only Armored Valk, Jotun, YF-4
Mal
Malcontents
2 Air Superiority Squad
2 Ground Attack Squad
Light Raider Squad
Mixed Infantry Squad
Artillery Support Squad
Missing Air Defense Squadron, Artillery Support Squadron, Heavy Destroid Squadron
Wave 2 Armored Assault Squadron, Assault Recon Squadron, Main Battle Squadron, Super Valkyrie Squadron, Zentraedi Assault Squadron
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only None
Zen
Zentradi Armada
Regult Attack Squadron
Regult Attrition Squadron
Regult Recon Squadron
2 Regult Attack Squad
2 Regult Attrition Squad
2 Regulr Recon Squad
Regult Artillery Squad
Missing None
Wave 2 Gnerl Attack Squadron, Mousgarma-Ger Squadron, Nousjadeul-Ger Squadron, Queadluun-Gult Squadron, Queadluu-Rau Squadron
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only Zen Heavy Infantry Squadron, Zen Light Infantry Squadron, Glaug-Eldare Squadron
Regular cards:
UEDF
VF-1A
VF-1J
VF-1S
VF-1R
Tomahawk
Defender
9 UEDF Special characters
2 VF-1A
2 VF-1J
2 VF-1S
2 VF-1R
Phalanx Destroid
Spartan Destroid
Missing None
Wave 2 Ghost, Lancer, Super VF-1A, Super VF-1D, Super VF-1J, Super VF-1S
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only Monster, Armored VF-1A, Armored VF-1D, Armored VF-1J, Armored VF-1S, Jotun VF-1A. Jotun VF-1D, Jotun VF-1J, Jotun VF-1S, VEF-1, VF-1D, YF-4, YF-4 Lead
Zen
Glaug
Regult
Regult Recon Scout
Recovery Pod
9 Zentradi Special Characters
2 Regult
Glaug
Regult Recon Scout
Recovery Pod
Heavy Art Pod
Light Art Pod
Particle Art Pod
Missing None
Wave 2 Gnerl, MPA Upgrade, MPA, FPA Upgrade, FPA
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only Glaug-Eldare, Gluu-Ger Infantry, Serau-Ger Infantry
Zen
Glaug
2 Regult Squad
Regult Recon Scout
Recovery Pod
Glaug
2 Regult Squad
Regult Recon Scout
2 Heavy Art Pod
2 Light Art Pod
2 Particle Art Pod
Recovery Pod
Missing VF-1J?
Wave 2 Queadluun-Gult, Queadluun-Rau, Nousgarma-Ger, Nousjadeul-Ger Squad, Gnerl Squad
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only Zen Heavy Inf Squad, Zen Light Infantry Squad, Zen Officer Upgrade
Mal
Glaug
3 Regult Squad
Regult Recon Scout
2 Suppport Destroid Squad
2 Valkyrie Squad
4 VF-1R Upgrade
Missing Assault Destroid Squad
Wave 2 Gnerl Squad, Queadluun-Rau, Super Valkyrie,
Wave 2 Add-Ons Only Armored VT Squad, Command Monster, Zen Heavy Infantry Squad, Infantry Officer Upgrade, Zen Light Infantry Squad
Ninja division also offers the information for games (at least relic knights) online in pdf format, so that is excusable. We dont even have the information for all our units available in any official capacity as it stands in RRT. It should have been in the book OR made available in some other form.
As is you have unit/army combinations available at retail that do not have rules available.
While I appreciate the comprehensive list, I'm honestly not sure how to interpret it all. Which options are ONLY in the add on boxes and not in the core box or the battlecry-based pledges?
Reason - Battlecry and above have Spartans. Main Box OTOH does not have Spartans in the retail version so it was left out. It should have been in the grab bag and was not. It is only in both of the Destroid Add-On Boxes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Defense Squadron
2x Defender 2x Light Artillery Pods
Should have been in wave 1
Reason - Battlecry and above have Artillery Pods. Main Box OTOH does not have them in the retail version so it was left out. It should have been in the grab bag and was not. It is only in both of the Tomahawk/Defender and Artillery Pod add-on boxes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Artillery Support Squadron
2x Phalanx 2x Light Artillery Pods
Should have been in wave 1
Reason - Battlecry and above have Artillery Pods. Main Box OTOH does not have them in the retail version so it was left out. It should have been in the grab bag and was not. It is only in both of the Spartan/Phalanx and Artillery Pod add-on boxes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy Destroid Squadron
2x Tomahawk 2x Spartan 1x Glaug
Should have been in wave 1
Reason - Battlecry and above have Spartans. Main Box OTOH does not have Spartans in the retail version so it was left out. It should have been in the grab bag and was not. It is likely only in both the Spartan/Phalanx and Zen Command Add-On Boxes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reason - Battlecry and above have Spartans. Main Box OTOH does not have Spartans in the retail version so it was left out. It should have been in the grab bag and was not. It is likely only in the Spartan/Phalanx Add-On Box.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swabby wrote: Ninja division also offers the information for games (at least relic knights) online in pdf format, so that is excusable. We dont even have the information for all our units available in any official capacity as it stands in RRT. It should have been in the book OR made available in some other form.
As is you have unit/army combinations available at retail that do not have rules available.
Which does not change the fact that the game is squadron based not individual figure based.
Also the PDF is caused by the morons at HG being so backwards.
Thanks for the update, Mike. I can sort of pool together the Malconent mishmash options together mentally as being add on only but the first one you listed seemed like a no brainer. Eh, that's Palladium for you. They didn't promise us the malconent cards in any case but neither did they happen to mention that not all identical models are equal either and will vary depending on how you get them I'm not going to hold my breath but maybe they'll "fix" that in the wave 2 cards and include them there. In any case, I do hope that someone comes out with a web based site that collates all this stuff and the pics of the cards into an easy to use format like various enterprising individuals have done with X-wing. I just fear that either Palladium or HG will end up sending a cease and desist letter to them for using the "official" cards.
Well, they are fully aware of mine and don't seem to have a problem with me sharing them. The only thing is if HG steps in. If I had a bit more web skills I would make a site where you can click on the faction you want and see squadrons for each faction and select ones and work to build everything in an app. In fact that was the first thing I mentioned in my first call with KS. I might get time this Christmas break to mess with it.
It'd be great if that could be sorted out. Probably go without artwork to avoid stepping on too many toes.
Yes, HG and PB have reputations for C&D letters. I'd also like to point out that Lucasarts, Disney and FFG have reputations for aggressively defending their IP, and yet X-Wing and Netrunner both have force/deck building sites maintained by fans with full card/unit stats, and those tools are immeasurably helpful.
On the other side, you have games like Magic, which is kind of a big thing, and WOTC maintain their own database with card art, text and rules clarifications/FAQ/Errata.
Forar wrote: It'd be great if that could be sorted out. Probably go without artwork to avoid stepping on too many toes.
Yes, HG and PB have reputations for C&D letters. I'd also like to point out that Lucasarts, Disney and FFG have reputations for aggressively defending their IP, and yet X-Wing and Netrunner both have force/deck building sites maintained by fans with full card/unit stats, and those tools are immeasurably helpful.
On the other side, you have games like Magic, which is kind of a big thing, and WOTC maintain their own database with card art, text and rules clarifications/FAQ/Errata.
FFG might have been smart enough though to negotiate that in their license ahead of time. They don't seem to do things in a haphazard fashion. That is of course pure speculation. I agree though that the likelyhood would decrease significantly if no art was used. ON the other hand, so would the visual appeal and utility. It's actually very useful that the "print outs" of xwing stuff from various web builders give you the option of printing the exact art of the cards being used and not just a text recap. That is what I was referring to specifically. I'm guessing (again) that Mike's use of mainly really old Macross pre-Robotech art and not just copy/pasting Palladium's new Robotech specific art helps him in keeping his cards available. I suspect it might be different if he decided to just scan in the more recent stuff straight from the rulebook.
Forar wrote: It'd be great if that could be sorted out. Probably go without artwork to avoid stepping on too many toes.
Yes, HG and PB have reputations for C&D letters. I'd also like to point out that Lucasarts, Disney and FFG have reputations for aggressively defending their IP, and yet X-Wing and Netrunner both have force/deck building sites maintained by fans with full card/unit stats, and those tools are immeasurably helpful.
On the other side, you have games like Magic, which is kind of a big thing, and WOTC maintain their own database with card art, text and rules clarifications/FAQ/Errata.
Disney does like C&D, but they also understand free advertisement vs. people making money off their IP.
I was just trying to cover all my angles before someone got pedantic about how Lawyerific Disney (and other such companies) can be, especially with properties that dwarf Robotech by orders of magnitude.
And note, even if I don't agree with how some companies choose to aggressively assert their IP protection, that is definitely part of my point; such force builder/deck builder sites help drive sales by letting people make informed choices.
If the books not having all the info is considered an intentional part of their business model, hopefully we can all agree that an easily updated site is a perfect melding of up to date info and allowing consumers to make informed choices.
I sure don't want to spend $120 on two squads of YF-4's only to find out that, due to the upgrades I consider valuable (if not necessary) that fielding more than 1 squad in a 300 point list is either impossible or not effective. Some of that will come from experience, but at least being able to eyeball a bunch of it is worthwhile.
Having to buy a box or hunt for card info online through questionable (in terms of legality and/or accuracy) isn't a Feature in my eyes, it's a Bug.
I find my main concern is that every bloody model in the box or pile of sprues takes about a half hour each if you clean them of sprue connection points properly.
Matching parts of feet to the right leg is still being a bit of a pain.
Just cannot wait to play the game with the actual models.
My negativity is on hold because I have nothing new to add that has not been already said.
Cards going into expansion boxes we do not have, may set me off again though...
You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game
So whats the consensus?
Great rules, nicely balanced gameplay with fantastic easy to assemble and paint models?
Not at all, just because people are happy does not mean that they are unrealistic. There have been a couple threads and reviews. People have been helping each other out with things like the screwed up arms for the Veritech in guardian mode and also on how to paint the minis.
Here is one review and them something I added
Wow
Honestly, do you think that is a balanced review?
Seriously, read it and look at the political tiptoe of arse kissing and apologist rhetoric with soft worded concerns (I wouldnt call them criticism they are so softly worded)
This is something I would expect from the United Nations once their rhetoric has been passed by all the veto countries and everyone else so that what they say is barely a critique toward the intended recipient.
Mike1975 wrote: Also the PDF is caused by the morons at HG being so backwards.
Mike, I know you have a personal relationship with Kevin, and I know you put stock in his word. But as someone who has never spoken to the man, having only public statements to go by, I'm sorry, I just can't accept that as indisputable fact.
Given PB's tendency to deflect blame from themselves, their general dislike of PDF's and other publishing modernizations, and the general untrustworthiness of statements Palladium have made, it would not surprise me in the least to find out that Palladium didn't want to go to the effort of doing so, and hid behind a "It's a licensing thing" as an excuse.
Obviously, you believe what you wrote. I don't and won't buy it, without further corroboration from Harmony Gold, or an independent source with first hand knowledge of the situation. You don't need to defend your position (acceptance of credibility is a personal thing), and I don't even necessarily think you're wrong. But I don't think it's impossible, let alone improbable that it is Palladium being Palladium.
It may very well be a convenient fact that licensing prohibits it. It is also likely that, given their prior reticence to allow anything that they plan on reprinting ever, as a licensee that was something they agreed with completely. Both can be true. With that, I now need to wash myself with some industrial detergent because I just argued in a round about way that palladium might have told the truth. I feel so dirty...
warboss wrote: It may very well be a convenient fact that licensing prohibits it. It is also likely that, given their prior reticence to allow anything that they plan on reprinting ever, as a licensee that was something they agreed with completely. Both can be true. With that, I now need to wash myself with some industrial detergent because I just argued in a round about way that palladium might have told the truth. I feel so dirty...
To be clear, I wasn't saying it's not Harmony Gold's fault in it's entirety. All I was trying to say was that it's possible to be otherwise, given the situations I listed, that it is not in fact, the truth (that HG are responsible).
Your points actually make a lot of sense, and muddy the waters further, that it's not necessarily a binary option and it's possibly a mutually agreed upon thing, behind the scenes. Though PB have implied that it's not their fault. But then again, what is?
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a lot of faith in Harmony Gold either. At best, they should be holding PB accountable for actions done with their brand name, but they've shown a perfect fit for Palladium in regards many aspects of business. But I don't want to see something as an accepted truth, when there's plenty of circumstantial information to at least potentially show otherwise, and a general lack of credibility from the only source of that information.
If I had to wager on the truth of the situation, I'd probably bet on PB's claim being true. But I definitely wouldn't bet the house on it.
I ended up eBaying mine. I just couldn't see myself investing the assembly time, plus painting time anytime in the near future. I'll buy a sprue here and there for nostalgia's sake, but there's so much ahead of RRT in the painting queue that there's no point in leaving it in the closet just to gather dust.
Mike1975 wrote: Also the PDF is caused by the morons at HG being so backwards.
Mike, I know you have a personal relationship with Kevin, and I know you put stock in his word. But as someone who has never spoken to the man, having only public statements to go by, I'm sorry, I just can't accept that as indisputable fact.
Given PB's tendency to deflect blame from themselves, their general dislike of PDF's and other publishing modernizations, and the general untrustworthiness of statements Palladium have made, it would not surprise me in the least to find out that Palladium didn't want to go to the effort of doing so, and hid behind a "It's a licensing thing" as an excuse.
Obviously, you believe what you wrote. I don't and won't buy it, without further corroboration from Harmony Gold, or an independent source with first hand knowledge of the situation. You don't need to defend your position (acceptance of credibility is a personal thing), and I don't even necessarily think you're wrong. But I don't think it's impossible, let alone improbable that it is Palladium being Palladium.
I've spoken to KS personally twice, maybe 3 times, and all but one of those conversations were really short. Now I have spoke to Wayne and Jeff. The argument on PDF files have never changed from anyone related to this project that I have spoken to emailed. So do I think KS is lied? NO, I never asked him aobut the PDF file. I asked Jeff. If it was all a great lie then everyone must be having some massive conspiracy. So while it is possible, I think it unlikely. I've spoke to 3 PB people, 2 MA's and a few playtesters close to PB and the story is consistent. So why should I think it's a massive lie/conspiracy?
Mike1975 wrote: I've spoken to KS personally twice, maybe 3 times, and all but one of those conversations were really short. Now I have spoke to Wayne and Jeff. The argument on PDF files have never changed from anyone related to this project that I have spoken to emailed. So do I think KS is lied? NO, I never asked him aobut the PDF file. I asked Jeff. If it was all a great lie then everyone must be having some massive conspiracy. So while it is possible, I think it unlikely. I've spoke to 3 PB people, 2 MA's and a few playtesters close to PB and the story is consistent. So why should I think it's a massive lie/conspiracy?
Mike, take a breath. Then reread what I wrote. Then take another breath. Because I'm NOT saying what you seem to be implying I am.
First off, I explicitly stated that you, having a more private relationship with staff at Palladium Books, were more likely to believe what you were told. And that's understandable. But you mention that you've got the same story from 3 PB employees, 2 MA's, and a few playtesters. But have you seen or heard any response from someone from Harmony Gold saying "Yup, we don't want PDF's for <insert reason>". Just because one side states a position, and the other is silent, does not mean the silent party is considered to be consenting or acquiescing.
Second, I'm NOT saying there's a vast conspiracy. Geez, where did that come from? It could be one member of PB who is stating something that may be false, or just misconstrued, about the actual truth of the situation. And if you don't think it's happened several times already during the campaign, I'm sure I, or others, can provide you with examples. If you're referring to the issue Warboss brought up, again, it doesn't have to be a "conspiracy". HG are ambivalent about PDF's, PB doesn't want to do PDF's anyway, PB says it's because of HG. Just because neither MAY have wanted it, doesn't make it a conspiracy.
Third, you admit that it's possible, though unlikely. And that was MY WHOLE POINT. I even said I thought it was likely true. But you stated it as fact. When it's only an allegation by one party (Palladium) that it is another party's fault. I said it's probable, but not factual. You apparently agree. Why are you getting mad? Consider my post pedantry nitpicking, and not an attempt to unseat a global conspiracy.
Finally, maybe I should have been clearer, but I don't doubt your belief in what was told, and I don't want or expect you to change your mind. All I was doing was pointing out we've only heard one side, and given their past, don't think it should be taken as absolute truth.
Look, I know you have an emotional attachment to the game, and I know you don't like the constant criticisms, and I know there are some people that spout outlandish negative claims against Palladium. You don't need to go half-cocked with me. Wait until I actually say what you think I'm saying. Then go off full-cocked.
Wait..... what?
EDIT: The one part where I did err in that post was the "relationship with Kevin", when it should have been the "relationship with Palladium staff". I conflated the two, and for that I apologize.
If Kevin says something, which one of the pb staff would dare contradict him. If Kevin says he can't release the PDF cause of hg; regardless of whether it's true or not, do you think any of the pb staff will say otherwise?
Sining wrote: If Kevin says something, which one of the pb staff would dare contradict him. If Kevin says he can't release the PDF cause of hg; regardless of whether it's true or not, do you think any of the pb staff will say otherwise?
I vote no, until they get fedup and leave PB and then they do a tell all somewhere.
Mike1975 wrote: I've spoken to KS personally twice, maybe 3 times, and all but one of those conversations were really short. Now I have spoke to Wayne and Jeff. The argument on PDF files have never changed from anyone related to this project that I have spoken to emailed. So do I think KS is lied? NO, I never asked him aobut the PDF file. I asked Jeff. If it was all a great lie then everyone must be having some massive conspiracy. So while it is possible, I think it unlikely. I've spoke to 3 PB people, 2 MA's and a few playtesters close to PB and the story is consistent. So why should I think it's a massive lie/conspiracy?
Mike, take a breath. Then reread what I wrote. Then take another breath. Because I'm NOT saying what you seem to be implying I am.
First off, I explicitly stated that you, having a more private relationship with staff at Palladium Books, were more likely to believe what you were told. And that's understandable. But you mention that you've got the same story from 3 PB employees, 2 MA's, and a few playtesters. But have you seen or heard any response from someone from Harmony Gold saying "Yup, we don't want PDF's for <insert reason>". Just because one side states a position, and the other is silent, does not mean the silent party is considered to be consenting or acquiescing.
Second, I'm NOT saying there's a vast conspiracy. Geez, where did that come from? It could be one member of PB who is stating something that may be false, or just misconstrued, about the actual truth of the situation. And if you don't think it's happened several times already during the campaign, I'm sure I, or others, can provide you with examples. If you're referring to the issue Warboss brought up, again, it doesn't have to be a "conspiracy". HG are ambivalent about PDF's, PB doesn't want to do PDF's anyway, PB says it's because of HG. Just because neither MAY have wanted it, doesn't make it a conspiracy.
Third, you admit that it's possible, though unlikely. And that was MY WHOLE POINT. I even said I thought it was likely true. But you stated it as fact. When it's only an allegation by one party (Palladium) that it is another party's fault. I said it's probable, but not factual. You apparently agree. Why are you getting mad? Consider my post pedantry nitpicking, and not an attempt to unseat a global conspiracy.
Finally, maybe I should have been clearer, but I don't doubt your belief in what was told, and I don't want or expect you to change your mind. All I was doing was pointing out we've only heard one side, and given their past, don't think it should be taken as absolute truth.
Look, I know you have an emotional attachment to the game, and I know you don't like the constant criticisms, and I know there are some people that spout outlandish negative claims against Palladium. You don't need to go half-cocked with me. Wait until I actually say what you think I'm saying. Then go off full-cocked.
Wait..... what?
EDIT: The one part where I did err in that post was the "relationship with Kevin", when it should have been the "relationship with Palladium staff". I conflated the two, and for that I apologize.
lol, I did not take it personally or anything or get upset , you know how things can come off over the internet. I was just saying that my relationship with KS is not really much if anything. I spoke to him the first time for about 45 minutes and I remember one other time when I was talking to Jeff and he got on and thanked me. Point is that Jeff, Wayne, MA's, Playtesters all tell the same story. Now I was told at first that it was just the images that held them back from releasing the rules, likely to not appear to be throwing HG under the proverbial bus, so I rewrote everything word for word to prove that false. There is a point where if everyone says the same thing time and again from various sides you tend to believe it. So either its a massive campaign to misinform others and themselves or in all truth HG is the one holding all the PDF's back.
When I proposed demo rules, where did they need to go? When I've asked about PDF rules and cards for everyone, where did they tell me they need to go to? So it's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of everyone saying the same thing and it being the truth or everyone lying to themselves.
Mike1975 wrote: I've spoken to KS personally twice, maybe 3 times, and all but one of those conversations were really short. Now I have spoke to Wayne and Jeff. The argument on PDF files have never changed from anyone related to this project that I have spoken to emailed. So do I think KS is lied? NO, I never asked him aobut the PDF file. I asked Jeff. If it was all a great lie then everyone must be having some massive conspiracy. So while it is possible, I think it unlikely. I've spoke to 3 PB people, 2 MA's and a few playtesters close to PB and the story is consistent. So why should I think it's a massive lie/conspiracy?
Mike, take a breath. Then reread what I wrote. Then take another breath. Because I'm NOT saying what you seem to be implying I am.
First off, I explicitly stated that you, having a more private relationship with staff at Palladium Books, were more likely to believe what you were told. And that's understandable. But you mention that you've got the same story from 3 PB employees, 2 MA's, and a few playtesters. But have you seen or heard any response from someone from Harmony Gold saying "Yup, we don't want PDF's for <insert reason>". Just because one side states a position, and the other is silent, does not mean the silent party is considered to be consenting or acquiescing.
Second, I'm NOT saying there's a vast conspiracy. Geez, where did that come from? It could be one member of PB who is stating something that may be false, or just misconstrued, about the actual truth of the situation. And if you don't think it's happened several times already during the campaign, I'm sure I, or others, can provide you with examples. If you're referring to the issue Warboss brought up, again, it doesn't have to be a "conspiracy". HG are ambivalent about PDF's, PB doesn't want to do PDF's anyway, PB says it's because of HG. Just because neither MAY have wanted it, doesn't make it a conspiracy.
Third, you admit that it's possible, though unlikely. And that was MY WHOLE POINT. I even said I thought it was likely true. But you stated it as fact. When it's only an allegation by one party (Palladium) that it is another party's fault. I said it's probable, but not factual. You apparently agree. Why are you getting mad? Consider my post pedantry nitpicking, and not an attempt to unseat a global conspiracy.
Finally, maybe I should have been clearer, but I don't doubt your belief in what was told, and I don't want or expect you to change your mind. All I was doing was pointing out we've only heard one side, and given their past, don't think it should be taken as absolute truth.
Look, I know you have an emotional attachment to the game, and I know you don't like the constant criticisms, and I know there are some people that spout outlandish negative claims against Palladium. You don't need to go half-cocked with me. Wait until I actually say what you think I'm saying. Then go off full-cocked.
Wait..... what?
EDIT: The one part where I did err in that post was the "relationship with Kevin", when it should have been the "relationship with Palladium staff". I conflated the two, and for that I apologize.
lol, I did not take it personally or anything or get upset , you know how things can come off over the internet. I was just saying that my relationship with KS is not really much if anything. I spoke to him the first time for about 45 minutes and I remember one other time when I was talking to Jeff and he got on and thanked me. Point is that Jeff, Wayne, MA's, Playtesters all tell the same story. Now I was told at first that it was just the images that held them back from releasing the rules, likely to not appear to be throwing HG under the proverbial bus, so I rewrote everything word for word to prove that false. There is a point where if everyone says the same thing time and again from various sides you tend to believe it. So either its a massive campaign to misinform others and themselves or in all truth HG is the one holding all the PDF's back.
When I proposed demo rules, where did they need to go? When I've asked about PDF rules and cards for everyone, where did they tell me they need to go to? So it's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of everyone saying the same thing and it being the truth or everyone lying to themselves.
Well another thing to consider is Pb doesn't have a history of doing a lot of their books in PDF format.
Mike1975 wrote: lol, I did not take it personally or anything or get upset , you know how things can come off over the internet. I was just saying that my relationship with KS is not really much if anything. I spoke to him the first time for about 45 minutes and I remember one other time when I was talking to Jeff and he got on and thanked me. Point is that Jeff, Wayne, MA's, Playtesters all tell the same story. Now I was told at first that it was just the images that held them back from releasing the rules, likely to not appear to be throwing HG under the proverbial bus, so I rewrote everything word for word to prove that false. There is a point where if everyone says the same thing time and again from various sides you tend to believe it. So either its a massive campaign to misinform others and themselves or in all truth HG is the one holding all the PDF's back.
When I proposed demo rules, where did they need to go? When I've asked about PDF rules and cards for everyone, where did they tell me they need to go to? So it's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of everyone saying the same thing and it being the truth or everyone lying to themselves.
Or, one lead person made the decision or had the misinterpretation when dealing with Harmony Gold, and noone else has bothered to re-check. It definitely wouldn't be the first time in any company's history where a person has stated something, and then everyone in the company has just gone "OK, fair enough". Heck, I think going around that lead person to double check, unless there was a reason for lack of trust in that lead person, would be hugely detrimental, and a waste of resources.
You state "time and again from various sides". What side have we heard, other than Palladium's?
You also mentioned the MA's and the playtesters as apparently being 'complicit' in the hypothetical conspiracy. How many of these do you think have had direct contact with Harmony Gold's legal or operational staff, and have questioned them specifically about their PDF policy? Or is it more likely they have just been told by Kevin, Wayne or Jeff "that's how it is", similar to what you were told. Heck, I'd find it strange if all three of those asked the same question.
Again, I'm not claiming intentional malfeasance. Hell, I'm not even claiming HG aren't likely the "bad guys". Again, repeating and summarizing my previous statements, WE DON'T KNOW. And to claim that what we've been told through second hand and/or questionable sources is THE TRUTH, is wrong. And until a representative from Harmony Gold or an independent source states "Yup, that's the way it went down", is, and will remain, unclear in the best of circumstances. So then it becomes a credibility issue. And that's where our opinions (and that's all they are) differ.
Sining wrote: If Kevin says something, which one of the pb staff would dare contradict him. If Kevin says he can't release the PDF cause of hg; regardless of whether it's true or not, do you think any of the pb staff will say otherwise?
One does not simply tell the emperor that he has no clothes. It is nothing but gusts of sunny weather up his naked backside at Palladium all year long.
As a test you should ask all the pb staff did Kevin say he'll ship yo backers first or did he say he'll ship to international backers before international retailers first. Then you'll know how trust worthy any palladium word is
He's an apologist. Best not to waste time on her/him. I have legitimate concerns and for not drinking the kool-aid I and many other disenfranchised backers are labeled haters. It's this kind of small minded thinking that plagues PB and does more harm than good.
Cypher-xv wrote: He's an apologist. Best not to waste time on her/him. I have legitimate concerns and for not drinking the kool-aid I and many other disenfranchised backers are labeled haters. It's this kind of small minded thinking that plagues PB and does more harm than good.
Mike has decided to martyr himself by being a PB perspective voice.
Some credit is due to him no matter how much it appears a "devil's advocate" stance to take with us more grumpy folk.
PB has a pretty well documented history of consistent behavior so I would not expect Tactics to be treated any different than their other publications.
I must admit that was an evil bait-and-switch with Ninja Division, I honestly thought we might see something handled in a more modernized (organized?) way.
The "Kool-Aid" drinkers like their product and have accepted (resigned?) PB behavior as part of the package.
Us "haters" are just customers more used to other industry standards of service, we are rather spoiled in comparison to what is offered here.
So if you want something changed, figure out how it will make PB more money, get the ear of someone who can talk to Kevin and then you may have a hope of it happening.
Aside from that, grit your teeth and wait for the last of your stuff to get to you and complain loudly at every point it looks like you may not get what was agreed or a further charge is attempted.
So, is this also the forum for the "painfully slow model assembly support group"?
The scout pod: dear lord! so... many... tiny... fiddly... BREAKABLE... bits!!!!!
This is the second time in my model experiences where I cut further away in the sprue form before I do the actual final cut.
Even my tiny shim-stock-like rotary blades still apply too much force to the part.
Maybe form a cast (splint?) around the part up to the sprue join to support it from flexing during cuts?
If I had a laser where no physical pressure is used to cut it would then work-out ok.
It is a bit disappointing that there are cards in the retail release of the sets that are not in the Battle Cry Kick Starter Backers.
It's more disappointing that we can't get a full list of all those cards. If it's a licensing thing with Harmony Gold- this bodes ill for the rest of the game. If every time Palladium Books wants to show something, make a new model, or write something new for Robotech RPG Tactics and it has to go throw Harmony Gold for approval, it could be YEARS before we see anything else for Macros, much less Southern Cross, Invid Invasion, or The Sentinels.
I tend to think, given the history of Palladium Books, that it's a case of them just not wanting to take the time to make such a list, and produce it in some form for the players/consumers. When has PB ever made anything in a PDF format and gave it away for free? Never. Heck, I bet only 1-2 people at PB even KNOW the entire contents of the sets. Probably the guys at Ninja Division do, but as PB and ND split in a very unfriendly sort of way, I doubt you'd be able to get such a list from them.
A far more likely scenario would be in about six months, a comprehensive list of cards is produced and placed in a new periodical product similar to The Rifter by PB. Something like the old Protoculture Addicts magazine.
I have material...pre-printing that shows a copy of all of the squadron cards. So I do know what all the cards will be. They would not have taken time to add to the list with the short time period that they had at that time before everything went to the printers. That being said...it is possible that there were changes....also I called a week before the deadline and gave a list of a few errors on the stats that were fixed. So could what I have be different? Sure. Is it likely, probably not. Either way I have asked for something to use to confirm everything just for the parties concerned and hope to get something if EU shipping is done.
I am a little concerned that of 4 hobby shops in my area only one box of Robotech is floating around.
I really think I will have to quickly get these darn models done to demo or the game will stillbirth in my area.
Anyone in the: Canada / Ontario / Guelph-Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge-Brantford area??
Halloooo??
hey Talizvar I am London way and get to KW Cambridge frequently....I got my KS stuff but have little interest after this debacle.....still if you need a hand
One of my FLGS has had a shipment in, sold out and got restocked o.o although most are looking to use the stuff for battletech
PapaSmurf wrote: hey Talizvar I am London way and get to KW Cambridge frequently....I got my KS stuff but have little interest after this debacle.....still if you need a hand .One of my FLGS has had a shipment in, sold out and got restocked o.o although most are looking to use the stuff for battletech cheers
papasmurf
Will friend you... good to identify someone around.
Yeah, my regular gaming friends have been trying to vulture stuff out of this for Battletech.
They are already complaining that the "Marauder" and "Wasp" models were not to "proper" scale... such a shame.
But the "Warhammer", "Rifleman", "Archer" and "Longbow" are ace!
Those were from Dougram, which wasn't part of Robotech. Does HG have any rights of it that I don't know about?
Psst!
I think he wants to talk about them so he has an excuse to show us pictures of his grey death legion ones and black widow ones and skulls ones etc etc.
n815e wrote: How polarized is the RRT community, in reality?
Of the more than 5000 backers, we're seeing a handful of constant complainers and a handful that are super fans. The rest of us are in the middle.
Who is this "us", white man?
I'm not a frequent poster in this thread or the comments (haven't posted anything in this thread or the comments in months), but at this point if I typed what I think of Kevin and PB in this thread, I'd be getting a nice little holiday from Dakka. Of course, being an Aussie, I'm considered a 5th-class citizen and so my gak won't be sent until they give enough of a feth to give a gak about it (ie after everyone else in the world).
And FWIW, I haven't followed the trials and tribulations of PB for the past however many years, have no recent pre-KS butthurt history with PB and am simply some guy who has a pile of the old Palladium and RTRPG books my my collection from when I used to do a lot of RPG gaming, and a few books I picked up a few years later. I knew nothing of their modern reputation and was simply a nostalgic old-timer coming back to one of my favourite games of my youth as opposed to a bitter internet hatemonger. After 18 months of constant lies, well, I already said what typing my thoughts out would get me.
At least as an Aussie, you know when your stuff is being sent; albeit after Europe. Us Asian, SEA backers aren't even considered important enough to mention
Sining wrote: At least as an Aussie, you know when your stuff is being sent; albeit after Europe. Us Asian, SEA backers aren't even considered important enough to mention
Really? I'd assumed from what was written (and the comments) that you guys were being done before us in some kind of airmail "RoW wave" that would arrive before ours - like Flying Frog is doing with SoB. Certainly a lot of bridges being burned here...
Harmony Gold probably has a grudge against Japan for all those lawsuits, and by the transitive and distributive properties Kevin is holding a grudge against your entire hemisphere.
I found some interesting stuff on my weekly youtube perusal. Looks like this was put up by the modeller according to the description. I'll have to find a pic of the gencon 3d print they were showing off but from first glance it looks the very similar. It's heartening to know that wave 2 information is out there and Palladium won't fething give us any because they're either too busy screwing over the ROW for Christmas or because they're about as confident as us in their ability to come through in a timely fashion on anything they say/state/promise/guess.
There are more videos on his channel both of not-Miriya as well as the normal Qraus.
Well, it looks like there may be another wrinkle for Australian backers. According to David Shelling over on Palladium's Facebook page, there is a possibility that the costs of importation of the slow boat shipment, may be passed on to the backers, rather than being absorbed as a shipping cost.
The issue at play here, is that because PB are sending it as a single shipment, the entire shipment will be subject to duty and other applicable fees. Last I checked, it's about 18.5%, but that is charged on the value of the shipment, PLUS the shipping costs (lessened by the cost of the shipping method). So, 21% seems like a reasonable estimation.
However, if your individual order is less than $1000AUD (at the time of purchase, about $1000US, but now closer to $830US), if it were shipped direct, you wouldn't pay any fees. The question becomes, as David Shelling points out, IF Palladium and Good Games pass on those fees that WILL be charged on the slow shipment (well in excess of $1000AUS), Australian backers for the most part (those under the $1000AUS threshold), will be paying ~21% on packages that they wouldn't be, and getting it 2-3 months later for the privilege, over if Palladium had sent it direct.
It's still speculation at this point, with David Shelling on FB pointing out discrepancies, but if it's true, because PB took a shipping option that saved THEM money, it means that backers who shouldn't be paying any costs will have to. Makes my decision to eat the shipping cost on selling my pledges look pretty good now. I lost ~$100US off what I paid (and was glad to do so to be done with it), but that'd beat the potential $320US* I'd have due IF this situation holds up. But frankly, it seems like a very Palladium thing to do.
* That's based on the cost of the pledge. It goes down if PB assert and are charged at "cost of materials", and it goes up astronomically, if Customs calculates it on retail value.
EDIT: On looking at PB's latest weekly update, I noticed the following.
It is our understanding that this method of shipping should in most cases reduce the end cost to the recipient. That said, the recipient will, of course, be responsible for any and all fees, taxes and duties their government may charge. What taxes, duty and fees MAY be applied is completely out of Palladium’s hands. Again, it is our understanding that this method of shipping will mitigate the cost to the recipient.
Ironically, if this holds up, it'll have DRAMATICALLY increased the "end cost to the recipient". And that those fees are completely IN Palladium's hands (as they could ship directly, and the fees for most backers wouldn't be charged). So the last sentence, about "it's our understanding" would just be incredibly funny, and in every way a Palladi-esque way of dealing with the issue.
Well, it looks like CSI have already gone to 40% off on all RRT merchandise, with their standard free domestic shipping for orders over $100. Meaning First Contact backers got doinked but good, and reducing the perceived value of a BC from "OMG great", to a more normal expectation. What was $400+* for $140 value can now be bought (assuming the discount isn't temporary) as two cores, and 8 expansions (2 Wave 1, 6 Wave 2)**, or $280, plus whatever for the 4 character models. Still a good deal (if you find the quality reasonable), but no longer great.
* Technically more, but anyone who buys the 2 Veri+2 BP+ZCom box over another core, is being silly. Plus, you'ld get another pair of Toma/Def to play with.
** I estimated CSI prices at $20. Sure, that's going to be more for the Super Valks, but I can't see them charging that for any of the Gnerl/Ghost/Lancer, and depending on relative size, maybe the FPA/MPA as well.
Even if I am being treated like a peon by paladium I was still excited for my pledge ($550 usd), now if it costs me more the perceived value of being a backer is lost (not to mention the actual financial cost).
well it does not bode well for the game if CSI has already reduced it to 40% off, but it could be a holiday sale, a steep holiday sale, but if it gets reduced more, then its panic time.
Well, I guess if things are like that now it means I'll be able to buy dozens of destroids for cheap to use in Battletech next year, on top of what Kevin is supposed to be sending me next february.
If I ever manage to assemble them all, of course :(
I suppose someone in the US who wants to buy product at a later date (which would exclude me) could simply call them and ask if the 40% off is a limited time only sale or permanent...
Trying to decide if the game is worth getting for myself at that price. The copy I got through KS went to a friend, and I've not been able to meet up with him since he assembled stuff due to this baby.
Yeah, the starter is probably the way to go. From there if one really wanted new models, snagging an Artillery Pod box and/or Spartan/Phalanx box would give access to all of the models in Wave One. If you really wanted to expand to larger fights, a second starter would probably be the most cost effective way to round out ones 'chaff' figures (10 VTs, 24 Pods, 8 Destroids and 2 'command pod packs' for ~$140 isn't exactly Kickstarter prices, but it's better than going by expansions alone).
For those interested, that youtube channel I linked above has more videos included a Glaug Eldare, MAC II, and a wrecked glaug terrain piece. I don't recall that last one being in the KS but I didn't order the objective markers or terrain stuff so maybe I missed it.
I think I can state without fear of contradiction, that I am the first EU resident to get my Wave 1 Pledge.
Colour me impressed, and a little amused.
Yes, my decals turned up today, posted direct from the US, and as they had declared the value at $1 I was not charged more. How other people will fare, I can't say. However, I do need to take care that I have not lost them by the time my models turn up as they are all Wave 2 items. But there goes $2.13 of my $8 postage!
First impressions of the UEDF decals?
Small. Tons of them. Hard to see the smaller white decals, but I am certainly glad I got them for the Skull Squadron symbols, they will look more realistic than the moulded on effort they have stated will be for the character, and are way better than I could have painted.
However, there is a block of black numbers in one corner, 100 to 112 and 200 to 212 in each row, 8 rows. The 4 rows nearest the edge are completely out of register and look out of focus compared to the others. Not a problem so far as I am concerned as I will never be using them all anyway, but those of you who were relying on the decals to outfit their forces may come unstuck.
Other than that though, there are a good number of "U.N. Spacy" in different sizes and colours which could be a help in differentiating different squadrons, and a number of small UN Spacy symbols in white on red, red on white, and white on black.
Overall, a win for PB so far as I am concerned despite having e-mailed them and asking them to hold the decals until my Wave 2 stuff shipped.
I am to old school....I still have all my old military maps I laminated myself with acid tape....though the acid tape roll I still have is like four years old.....
I'm even more old school and use the laminator at work. There's nothing more old school than using work gear for personal stuff!
Where's our update Wayne?
"Robotech® products are available in the U.S., Canada, the European Union, Australia and New Zealand only."
...well, so much for "not released in your region", then.
I've gotta assume that's specifically for Webstore purchases, and they may hold back packages to those areas until it's unlikely a direct mail will beat backer copies (though given PB's track record of incompetence I wouldn't count on it). Even so, it's another case of PB being completely tone-deaf to criticism.
And while Palladium may or may not be sinking beneath the waves (probably need six months or so to see where demand for RRT sits), Kevin is definitely Terry Jones as King Arnulf in this little play. With RRT being less than halfway at this point* there's still a long way to go. Plenty more bad choices for Palladium to make. I look forward to the next GenCon calamity.
* I put it at about 1/2 by model count, but only ~1/3 by mold count. For the model count, I figure most purchases were BC's, and it's a 2/3 to 1/3 split there, but then there's all the addons which I'd expect were at least statistically significant. Similarly, the 1/3 on mold count is dependent on what they can re-use. If everything is done from scratch (specifically the alt-Valks, VEF/1D/SValk/AValk/Rick/Roy), it's probably less than 1/4 done so far. But if those are mostly "upgrade sprues" (ie, a single sprue that adds all the VEF components for all three modes, along with a set of the current Valk sprues), it'll probably be closer to 1/3, once you take in the extra sprues some of the more cumbersome items. The GEldare may fit on a single sprue, depending on how it breaks down, but the Mac Daddy is gonna be 3+, unless they seriously increase the size of the frame.
And I'll reiterate for people who still claim Wave 2 is "mostly done". No pics? Never happened. I don't trust anything they say, given their history of "misleading" statements, without photographic proof. Sure, we've seen PPP's of a handful of Wave 2 models (GEldare, FPA), but that's stuff done before they realized they were way in over their heads. I'd be surprised if much of anything's been done since, and even then, it's a long way from PPP to test sprue to production to delivery (as was evidenced by Wave 1).
The alt-valks will be plastic. Rick/Roy/Khyron/Miriya are KS exclusives and I seriously doubt that even PB have enough stupids to do them in Styrene/Injection Plastic. The costs on the moulds for, let's be generous and say, 5,000 of them will still add considerably to the cost per unit. Running them in resin will be quicker and cheaper.
This is why I don't understand why they have not had someone working on them and the SDF-1 model, SDF-1 Bases, etc. at the same time as the wave 1 stuff.
And like Morgan, I don't believe they have been, or else they could have shipped some in wave 1, and there have been no pics.
Give me something concrete and I will be happy. Keep up the vapourware, jazzhands, and unicorn farts and I'll find it hard to breathe, never mind stomach!
Asterios wrote: well it does not bode well for the game if CSI has already reduced it to 40% off, but it could be a holiday sale, a steep holiday sale, but if it gets reduced more, then its panic time.
I guess Warmachine and Hordes are dead too, CSI was selling for 40-50% off.
Conrad Turner wrote: The alt-valks will be plastic. Rick/Roy/Khyron/Miriya are KS exclusives and I seriously doubt that even PB have enough stupids to do them in Styrene/Injection Plastic. The costs on the moulds for, let's be generous and say, 5,000 of them will still add considerably to the cost per unit. Running them in resin will be quicker and cheaper.
I disagree, they'd better be plastic. As far as I know, the only model that they suggested MAY be metal/resin is the Super VF-1D components. Changing out the material on the four character models is a problem. There was some confusion about the GenCon 2013 Miriya being resin, but that was because (surprise!) they didn't have anything else to show at the convention.
Now, is it a good idea to do runs for small numbers of models? Probably not. But it is what was promised. Not that PB care that much about promises. And it's probably closer to 6,000 they'll need to satisfy backer contributions. But I'd put the print run at probably closer to 10K. Because I expect these things to be treated like cereal box toys. They went to great pains to make sure they were "KS and Convention exclusives", and I fully expect them to Oprah them at every convention they attend. I fully expect PB to take any "secondary market hype" out of all of those models. Outside of international consumers (and honestly, "screw those guys" seems to be the PB motto), I expect them to be the second most glutted group of components outside Valks and Battlepods. Hell, it's probably the only way they can get around the expected GenCon2015 fiasco of not having anything new. If they were "smart" about it, these'd be all over the convention, months before backers get theirs. Because it puts "new" stuff out there, but it's not going retail. Of course, that screws retailers, and not having anything new available at retail for a year plus, that's going to be a problem too.
Conrad Turner wrote: This is why I don't understand why they have not had someone working on them and the SDF-1 model, SDF-1 Bases, etc. at the same time as the wave 1 stuff.
Good point. And why I don't believe PB are doing all that much "behind the scenes". The resin components (SDF-1, bases) use a completely different system to the plastics (so, shouldn't be done by the same company as the plastics), and they had an extra 8 months, and still nothing? The funny thing is, while they could be done without other requirements for the SDF-1/bases, I can see them not putting a rush on the VEF/1D sprues, then realizing that they need the promised Super components (that may or may not need mating to the plastic components), and it being a whole other thing, that significantly delays Wave 2. Or, they'll ship Wave 2, and have to blow money on Wave 3 shipping of the Super components. Either way, I fully anticipate another Palladi-ism.
Yup, that's why a bunch of us asked John Cadice for an update the last time he posted on the FB page. It's probably part way along, we know some from pre-Wave 1 and 2 times were nearly done but we really need an honest update and at this point any update, regardless of content, will be questioned.
Yup, that's why a bunch of us asked John Cadice for an update the last time he posted on the FB page. It's probably part way along, we know some from pre-Wave 1 and 2 times were nearly done but we really need an honest update and at this point any update, regardless of content, will be questioned.
And frankly they deserve to be. We had 98% done, "finalized", definitely coming out by *insert random date* updates promising us things that had about as much truth to them as quotes you find on gas station bathroom stalls.
Unfortunately Palladium have 'boy who cried wolf'd' themselves on this one.
No info is a bad sign.
Info will be taken with a massive dose of salt.
But giving info AND FOLLOWING THROUGH ON IT would be better than just shrugging and leaving the community to grumble to itself.
Guess we'll find out whenever they decide to go with giving us some info. I hate to be doom and gloom, but considering the beating they've taken over the various shipping/retail fiascoes, you'd think that if they had a bunch of good news to share on wave two they'd have started feeding us some of it to placate at least part of the fanbase (those that can still be reasoned with, at least).
"Robotech® products are available in the U.S., Canada, the European Union, Australia and New Zealand only."
...well, so much for "not released in your region", then.
I've gotta assume that's specifically for Webstore purchases, and they may hold back packages to those areas until it's unlikely a direct mail will beat backer copies (though given PB's track record of incompetence I wouldn't count on it). Even so, it's another case of PB being completely tone-deaf to criticism.
If i had to guess its probably due to the terms of HGs license, particularly the lack of Asian markets
I wonder if it isn't that Wave 1 is out there to retail because they quite simply probably burned through all the KS cash on wave 1 and need the $$$s quite badly at this point and are hoping the sales make enough to get Wave 2 going.
That's been postulated a number of times in the last year and a half.
We won't know for months or even years to come. If the game sells well and jumpstarts their finances, we may never know. If it sells poorly and wave two takes suspiciously long to get to molds/production, I guess we'll have our answer.
Forar wrote: If it sells poorly and wave two takes suspiciously long to get to molds/production, I guess we'll have our answer.
Um... if they actually had $1.3 million roughly for the duration of wave 1's releases and it took them over a year past their due date to deliver only 1/3 the sculpts to most off the backers, what qualifies as "suspiciously long"? Are we talking leap years passing inbetween waves?
More seriously, if we break 2016 without even a hint of a release target, we should probably grab the pitchforks and torches, but they actually managed to start delivering on wave one, so I guess we'll see if they can pull off wave 2.
Not that it'll be without shenanigans. Let's be real, after the "omg we need Hype(tm) and Buzz(r)(c)!" of Gencon, I wouldn't be shocked if they got *part* of W2 done and then felt the need to rush to sell it to someone, anyone at all, or some crap.
But I guess after hearing from Rick (Hi Rick!) that "maybe Palladium is bankrupt!" for half a year, I guess I'm just nonplussed over such concerns. They're slow and what they've delivered seems to be meh (or the poopiest poop to ever be pooped from a poohole, depending on who you ask), but despite all efforts to the contrary (and fate kicking them in the niknacks a few times), they did deliver something.
So until another year passes without anything resembling forward motion, I'm not really ready to being pondering aloud 'what if they're broke'?
We've already done that. Like... a hundred times (Hi again, Rick!). It's "the boy who cried wolf"; we've had it thrown out there so many times I just can't be worked up about it until PB manages to hit bottom and actively start digging again. And I don't doubt they can and will do so. Just gonna take more than musings to do it at this point.
totalfailure wrote: I wonder if it isn't that Wave 1 is out there to retail because they quite simply probably burned through all the KS cash on wave 1 and need the $$$s quite badly at this point and are hoping the sales make enough to get Wave 2 going.
Or... it's Christmas.
The simplest and easiest explanation or the most convoluted conspiracy? Well, it is THIS thread after all...
totalfailure wrote: I wonder if it isn't that Wave 1 is out there to retail because they quite simply probably burned through all the KS cash on wave 1 and need the $$$s quite badly at this point and are hoping the sales make enough to get Wave 2 going.
Or... it's Christmas.
The simplest and easiest explanation or the most convoluted conspiracy? Well, it is THIS thread after all...
or maybe they have done nothing on wave 2 yet. lets face it, ND is doing the designing of the minis, not PB, all PB has to do is approve them and get HG's approval, that's not a lot of time or more to the point a lot of involved time on PB's part, so their packaging of Wave 1 items to ship wouldn't interfere with that, and yet here we sit with nary a word about wave 2, supposedly they told someone they would be posting about wave 2 info awhile back, and sadly no word as of yet.
why have they produced nothing for us? any number of reasons:
1: they want to surprise us
2: they have done nothing due to lack of funds
3: they have done nothing due to IP issues
4: they have done nothing cause they are still basking in the almighty light that is the Kevin S.
5: they have done nothing because they are lazy.
any of those reason and many more could be why we have heard nothing from PB about wave 2.
and those that never liked them (or have got fed up already) are not going to be won over at this point
well by being silent they do have much to lose, their silence has not been winning them any converts but has been increasing the amount of those dissatisfied with this project.
I don't think they're losing much. They put their foot in their mouth so many times over the past year and a half (and attempted to insert that in the other end of pledgers' GI tracts twice, succeeding once) and yet 3/4 of folks still voted yes to allow entry to their backsides. Silence won't cost them anything. If this KS has taught me anything, it is that folks minds are made up about palladium (whether good or bad) regardless of their actions.
Back after a week vacation.
So we are musing what now?
Seems the main pretty game box is out there for retail before Christmas so PB can afford a "wait and see".
I expect some grudging progress reports in mid-January with no pictures but some more 3D model pics or (gasp) 3d printed prototypes.
I expect no real progress to be shown until about 1 month before Gencon.
Then the "gee-wiz can we sell backer stuff before the backers get it?" if it goes too close to the wire.
I expect if we do not get everything before Christmas 2015 we are not getting it at all.
Sorry, I have largely copied what happened this year.
I can get back to putting together my 20+ part models, looking forward to painting and even MOAR! the challenge of the decal applications.
My jeweler visor is going to get a workout and a possible ban on coffee prior to decal operations.
It may not appear it, but I am happy because I have been half expecting for PB to put out some bare minimum effort and run with the rest of the money.
They appear to be excited that this project may just make some coin so they cannot quite bring themselves to abandon the potential revenue.
Lets hope Christmas sales are sufficient to keep their interest for Wave 2's sake.
My deepest sympathies for the non-US / Canada backers: I hope the choices of shipping do not go as anticipated...
warboss wrote: I don't think they're losing much. They put their foot in their mouth so many times over the past year and a half (and attempted to insert that in the other end of pledgers' GI tracts twice, succeeding once) and yet 3/4 of folks still voted yes to allow entry to their backsides. Silence won't cost them anything. If this KS has taught me anything, it is that folks minds are made up about palladium (whether good or bad) regardless of their actions.
well my thoughts before this KS was I didn't know PB still existed, thought they went the way of the Dodo bird like R. Talsorian games, then this KS started and it was like good memories of playing Robotech RPG came flooding back, now I feel like PB is that "Stuff" you want off the bottom of your shoe but afraid to touch it.
Asterios wrote: I well my thoughts before this KS was I didn't know PB still existed, thought they went the way of the Dodo bird like R. Talsorian games,
Was pretty much my thoughts in the beginning.
then this KS started and it was like good memories of playing Robotech RPG came flooding back,
I got some of my books back from my brother to look at again and some of my old notes.
Had a few campaigns in the Robotech setting.
now I feel like PB is that "Stuff" you want off the bottom of your shoe but afraid to touch it.
They have not aged gracefully since the time of fond memories.
Best summary I can give without griping: They do not inspire customer loyalty, the reaction is to get the least amount of product you want from them and not look back.
- Their dialogue with their customers seems more paternal than a provider of product which is not for everyone.
- They are too volatile to trust with any amount of money without some risk of it being "lost / delayed / stasis" or terms of sale being revised.
I had started off fairly open minded (I think), noticed a few strange things, did some research and decided they are a poorly run company that is high risk to deal with.
I had started off fairly open minded (I think), noticed a few strange things, did some research and decided they are a poorly run company that is high risk to deal with.
++++++++++
IN other words the perfect companion to HG.
a month into RTT ownership I have equal parts love and WTF? moments. Played my 2 intro games last friday. Lost one won one. In the win went to tie up and wound up destroying the last pod he needed to get across. Oddly since H2H is based on pilot Guardian was my choice. I think I'm doing something wrong becuase the battloid seems underpowered.
Battloid has increased gunnery and can fire the GU-11 at a longer range. That increased GN makes the shots very hard to dodge. It's like the full Offense mode for the VT. If you go HTH with a VT you are using it wrong.
Mike1975 wrote: Battloid has increased gunnery and can fire the GU-11 at a longer range. That increased GN makes the shots very hard to dodge. It's like the full Offense mode for the VT. If you go HTH with a VT you are using it wrong.
Funny, because it kind of was one of the goals of making them, you know, humanoid-shaped ^_^
Mike1975 wrote: Plus some argue that the GU-11 can fire 3 times in Battloid! That would make them a terror. One VT killing 3 Pods per round!
... what?
How... how can "some argue"?
How many times a figure can fire per turn is kind of important information that shouldn't be up to interpretation.
GU-11 has Rapid Fire, description on card says in Battloid it can fire and additional time. It does not appear on the Armored VT cards though but it does on the Supers.
I really wish I still had some budget left. Damn is that tempting.
Not that I'll ever finish assembling my Battlecry pledge, but at least I could have a few more of the minis I actually like.
yeah the fact CSI reduced their price not once but now twice does not bode well for the product with CSI, as to why, no clue, but the actions are those of clearance pricing, since just about any profit is out the window now probably.
"The end result is a game that is pretty terrible in regards to putting things together and fielding your army, but once you actually get through the weeks and/or months or crap you have to deal with before actually playing the game, you’ll find it’s a lot of fun. The problem is most people, especially those who haven’t spent a good portion of their lives putting together minis and/or painting them will give up on Robotech RPG Tactics long before they get to that point. What a god damn shame." - by Alex Lucard on October 27, 2014
This is the sad part: newbies will really have a heck of a time getting the models together, I am realizing this more and more as I plough through them.
I have had decades of putting models together and am quite impressed with the fit and end result but the process is excruciating.
All those injection points are such a chore to ensure they are cut nicely and ensuring a flush surface without destroying detail (or the dreaded launching tiny bits never to be found).
"The end result is a game that is pretty terrible in regards to putting things together and fielding your army, but once you actually get through the weeks and/or months or crap you have to deal with before actually playing the game, you’ll find it’s a lot of fun. The problem is most people, especially those who haven’t spent a good portion of their lives putting together minis and/or painting them will give up on Robotech RPG Tactics long before they get to that point. What a god damn shame." - by Alex Lucard on October 27, 2014
This is the sad part: newbies will really have a heck of a time getting the models together, I am realizing this more and more as I plough through them.
I have had decades of putting models together and am quite impressed with the fit and end result but the process is excruciating.
All those injection points are such a chore to ensure they are cut nicely and ensuring a flush surface without destroying detail (or the dreaded launching tiny bits never to be found).
yeah if I didn't just get done spending a crap load of money on a bunch of LRC's (Land Raider Crusaders) I might have bought a few boxes so I'll have spare parts when I do my friends models for him, might still pick up some boxes next week have to see if anything else catches my eye or not.
Hey guys, SecretSanta2014 for an additional 5% off at CoolStuffInc.
And again, I'd like to point out that their 50% off Warmachine/Hordes sale and MiniatureMarket's 40% off Warmachine/Hordes sale is entirely the reason that I got into Warmachine and Hordes (with Menoth, Minions, and Circle).
Very often huge sales are subsidized by the publisher in order to move product. (This is what actually happened with Privateer Press and Miniature Market. Warmachine had dropped to #4 in the top 5 minis game lists, and after the 40% sales, rose back to #3). Notice the stock levels for the Robotech product at CSI. I can easily imagine Palladium shipped them hundreds of copies at a huge discount in order for them to move a ton during CSI's Xmas sales. I know several people who are ordering or are considering ordering Robotech as we speak, due to the CSI discount. Even just the box game nets enough figs for someone to start an army, or swap with another player to get a decent sized force of one or the other.
) but as a 
, you know how things can come off over the internet. I was just saying that my relationship with 
