I thought I'd make this thread to discuss all things during this campaign - should be interesting to all of us because GW have stated that ALL factions will be getting new stuff, whether rules or models!
The current focus/story is "Phoenix Rising" - seems that the Aeldari factions are starting to kick off between each other (that I LOVE by the way) and something of a civil war has started.
Here's the text from the site if anyone is interested;
GW wrote:The ancient and proud Aeldari race is split into various factions. The stoic and noble Asuryani live their lives adrift on planet-sized Craftworlds. The depraved Drukhari venture forth from the dark metropolis of Commorragh to raid and pillage. The mysterious Harlequins travel the galaxy according to their unfathomable whims via the webway. And the newly formed Ynnari, comprised of members from all walks of Aeldari life, are united in the desire to awaken Ynnead, god of the dead.
The Aeldari are a psychically sensitive race, and the fragile balance between these disparate cultures has been disturbed by the Psychic Awakening. These factions have become embroiled in a full-scale internecine war for the future of their people.
Ancient divisions yawn ever wider, the complex fabric of alliances and uneasy truces unravels, and self-righteous leaders on all sides attempt to rally support for their causes.
I find a few things in the text and on the site interesting;
1. The inter-factional war is cool both from fluff perspective (I never liked the idea of classic Eldar and Dark Eldar fighting together) and a rules perspective.To me it might allow buffs for a "Pure" Craftworld/Drukhari/Ynnari army like what we've seen with Combat Doctrines and SM.
2. Who's going to be fighting who? Keen to find out!
3. "Self righteous" leaders is an interesting take - I wonder who it refers to?
4. On the site when you click on the Phoenix Rising part of the map and information it brings up a new panel with what looks to me like Swooping Hawks wings at the top of the pop up and a scourge on the left, Drukhari will feature then?
5. We know that new Howling Banshees are coming, how are they linked? Are the Craftworlders or even different aspects kicking off against each other?!
Anyway sorry for the ramble, just wanted to share and start a discussion!
4. On the site when you click on the Phoenix Rising part of the map and information it brings up a new panel with what looks to me like Swooping Hawks wings at the top of the pop up and a scourge on the left, Drukhari will feature then?
5. We know that new Howling Banshees are coming, how are they linked? Are the Craftworlders or even different aspects kicking off against each other?!
Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect is at present a big fan of Yvraine. And if you dont think the PLs are being updated alongside their Aspects, you're bonkers.
My only sadness is no mention of Dinosaur Riding Eldar! That said the artwork on the page for a swooping hawk looks great! I'm reminded of the great feather wings that scourges have for Dark Eldar and seeing those in Eldar would be great - esp if they are a bit more fancy and grand than the dark eldar version.
That said there isn't really all that much to get excited about yet - at least not until something happens in the story and the Banshee's come out. Then I think there will be a lot of spark for interest as well as seeing how things twist and turn out.
5. We know that new Howling Banshees are coming, how are they linked? Are the Craftworlders or even different aspects kicking off against each other?!
Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect is at present a big fan of Yvraine. And if you dont think the PLs are being updated alongside their Aspects, you're bonkers.
Have they said they're going to update all of the aspects? AFAIK it's only Banshees. So Jain Zar is 99% certain but will that be it?
E - what I thought was the imprint of a future button is actually the Tau Empire, I thought it was larger than that? It's bloody tiny! Anyway, Tau are nearby.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Segersgia wrote: The map has a very large empty area on the right. Almost like we might have a focus beyond even the Eastern Fringes.
Spoiler:
See what I mean?
Ooooh that's big (both in terms of news and the empty space).
Segersgia wrote: The map has a very large empty area on the right. Almost like we might have a focus beyond even the Eastern Fringes.
Spoiler:
See what I mean?
I came to say this, I don't think the map has ever been extended so far. What's supposed to be there, if anyone has deep fluff knowledge please do share.
I just know the Tsagualsa from Night Lords stories is supposed to be in that area near Eastern Fringes but I'm having hard time believing they (NL) would carry any sort of significance in this upcoming Psychic Awakening.
Insert conspiracy theory about the new race who's skulls have appeared in various pieces of art that may be the ones driving the tyranid swarms before them.
Or it could be space left to insert graphics for story line information pop-ups.
We might be reading more into that than we need to. That empty space could just be there for text blocks, but someone forgot to:
A) add a text block there or
B) zoom in/center the image if a text block wasn't; intended
I came to say this, I don't think the map has ever been extended so far. What's supposed to be there, if anyone has deep fluff knowledge please do share.
Call me a pessimist, but I don't think we're going to be seeing any model releases other than rereleasing the Banshees in plastic and maybe, maybe, a new Jain Zar.
With what's felt like a non stop slew of Imperial and Chaos releases lately, I don't know how they would manage to make anything for Eldar with what little development time remained after all that.
It's nice that Eldar are getting some attention, but anyone expecting more than the bare minimum in terms of models from this are setting themselves up for disappointment.
onlyroad wrote: Call me a pessimist, but I don't think we're going to be seeing any model releases other than rereleasing the Banshees in plastic and maybe, maybe, a new Jain Zar.
With what's felt like a non stop slew of Imperial and Chaos releases lately, I don't know how they would manage to make anything for Eldar with what little development time remained after all that.
It's nice that Eldar are getting some attention, but anyone expecting more than the bare minimum in terms of models from this are setting themselves up for disappointment.
Not sure how that adds up.
A) They have not just been doing Imperial and Chaos lately. Have you seen the new range of Bone-guys for AoS? Halflings and Lizardmen for BB. The planes for AI. The various Warcry stuff. New Blackstone Fortress etc..
B) The development time can be spread around. Most miniatures GW does are designed about 1-2 years before going into production as far as we can fathom from rumour engines, the leaks of olden days, etc.., but that doesn't mean there is variation in there. The "new" Eldar jetbike was formally leaked some 4-5 years before it went to the shelves. Inversely, other miniatures might be fast tracked. There's no hinz they were developed in the same time as, say, the Shadowspear box.
C) Precisely because auf digital sculpting and libraries of CAD files, it usually doesn't make sense to do one-offs (though GW still does them, e.g. Blood Bowl). There's a reason GW didn't just re-do Plague Marines in plastic and called it a day. If you have a server full of nurgely design-elements, it's basically no design time at all to slap them on dozens of other basic CAD frames and churn out Terminators, Characters, Tanks, whathaveyou at little to no extra development time.
In fact, I am kinda hoping for some GW restrain and "only" re-does the aspects, not using the Plague Bearer / Rubric Marine / Harlequin playbook of turning dated Elite-slot choices into entire mini-dexes, because why not?
Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect is at present a big fan of Yvraine. And if you dont think the PLs are being updated alongside their Aspects, you're bonkers.
Eh. I won't be surprised if they're disposed of in Warhammer Legends and never addressed again.
Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect is at present a big fan of Yvraine. And if you dont think the PLs are being updated alongside their Aspects, you're bonkers.
Eh. I won't be surprised if they're disposed of in Warhammer Legends and never addressed again.
They are in the Craftworld Codex. Cannot "Legends" them until Craftworlds Codex 2.0, and even that I find doubtful.
Index stuff like Warpspider-Autarch, sure.. .but stuff in the Codex I would assume they put in there to keep.
Sunny Side Up wrote: B) The development time can be spread around. Most miniatures GW does are designed about 1-2 years before going into production as far as we can fathom from rumour engines, the leaks of olden days, etc.., but that doesn't mean there is variation in there. The "new" Eldar jetbike was formally leaked some 4-5 years before it went to the shelves. Inversely, other miniatures might be fast tracked. There's no hinz they were developed in the same time as, say, the Shadowspear box.
Better than that. Bikes were designed decade before actually release. They just never got appropriate release slot for them. Plastic wraithguard got the previous one.
Yeah not buying "they don't have time". They don't design and immediately release things. For all we know plastic aspects were designed BEFORE all these new imperial and chaos models were designed and are just waiting for GW to decide time is right to release them!
Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect is at present a big fan of Yvraine. And if you dont think the PLs are being updated alongside their Aspects, you're bonkers.
Eh. I won't be surprised if they're disposed of in Warhammer Legends and never addressed again.
They are in the Craftworld Codex. Cannot "Legends" them until Craftworlds Codex 2.0, and even that I find doubtful.
Index stuff like Warpspider-Autarch, sure.. .but stuff in the Codex I would assume they put in there to keep.
I am a firm believer in trends.
I think it is pretty clear the intent is to fully update all out of date models, mixed with new models. Every space marine character will go "primaris" and the phoneix lords will likely all be 'reborne" or something along those lines with full new hp kits.
Sunny Side Up wrote: B) The development time can be spread around. Most miniatures GW does are designed about 1-2 years before going into production as far as we can fathom from rumour engines, the leaks of olden days, etc.., but that doesn't mean there is variation in there. The "new" Eldar jetbike was formally leaked some 4-5 years before it went to the shelves. Inversely, other miniatures might be fast tracked. There's no hinz they were developed in the same time as, say, the Shadowspear box.
Better than that. Bikes were designed decade before actually release. They just never got appropriate release slot for them. Plastic wraithguard got the previous one.
Yeah not buying "they don't have time". They don't design and immediately release things. For all we know plastic aspects were designed BEFORE all these new imperial and chaos models were designed and are just waiting for GW to decide time is right to release them!
I still think all of the new CHaos stuff from 2.0 was designed during 6th edition and delayed for some reason.
B) The development time can be spread around. Most miniatures GW does are designed about 1-2 years before going into production as far as we can fathom from rumour engines, the leaks of olden days, etc.., but that doesn't mean there is variation in there. The "new" Eldar jetbike was formally leaked some 4-5 years before it went to the shelves. Inversely, other miniatures might be fast tracked. There's no hinz they were developed in the same time as, say, the Shadowspear box.
This is not true, the jetbike is a fluke
GW mostly flies by the seat of its pants, the release schedule and the design schedule are two different things
most of the previews we've seen, were previews just as they were approved to have molds cut
B) The development time can be spread around. Most miniatures GW does are designed about 1-2 years before going into production as far as we can fathom from rumour engines, the leaks of olden days, etc.., but that doesn't mean there is variation in there. The "new" Eldar jetbike was formally leaked some 4-5 years before it went to the shelves. Inversely, other miniatures might be fast tracked. There's no hinz they were developed in the same time as, say, the Shadowspear box.
This is not true, the jetbike is a fluke
GW mostly flies by the seat of its pants, the release schedule and the design schedule are two different things
most of the previews we've seen, were previews just as they were approved to have molds cut
It was longer than usual but 2 year is quite normal. There's often enough been year markings on sprues to prove that. Model that released in 2018 has 2016 in sprue etc.
People keep underestimating lead times. GW doesn't do things on the fly. Age of Sigmar design proces started in 2012. Released in what? 2015?
It was longer than usual but 2 year is quite normal. There's often enough been year markings on sprues to prove that. Model that released in 2018 has 2016 in sprue etc.
People keep underestimating lead times. GW doesn't do things on the fly. Age of Sigmar design proces started in 2012. Released in what? 2015?
In 2012 they weren't cutting molds in house
I could cut a sisters mold in about 20 hours on a tormach with half an hour to an hour of prep
This is not really a difficult process to get under control
Segersgia wrote: The map has a very large empty area on the right. Almost like we might have a focus beyond even the Eastern Fringes.
Spoiler:
See what I mean?
The Silent King and his Necron loyalists vs Tyranids as a future instalment would be cool.
Galef wrote: We might be reading more into that than we need to. That empty space could just be there for text blocks, but someone forgot to:
A) add a text block there or
B) zoom in/center the image if a text block wasn't; intended
I think plastic Jain Zar is quite likely given the whole Phoenix Rising stuff. What i really want to see is the Avatar of Khaine given the same up-scaling and plastic treatment as the Chaos Greater Daemons (though its probably never going to happen).
The Avatar used to be the biggest of bads in 40k with a whopping S and T 8 and a 2+ save that couldn't get worse than 4+. Now even a meer Carnifex has better toughness.
It was longer than usual but 2 year is quite normal. There's often enough been year markings on sprues to prove that. Model that released in 2018 has 2016 in sprue etc.
People keep underestimating lead times. GW doesn't do things on the fly. Age of Sigmar design proces started in 2012. Released in what? 2015?
In 2012 they weren't cutting molds in house
I could cut a sisters mold in about 20 hours on a tormach with half an hour to an hour of prep
This is not really a difficult process to get under control
Yes. OF course that's not the whole process. It's real simple. GW operates with long schedules. It's been proven over and over again. They aren't just improvising things on the fly. Again you just need to look at sprues. Plenty of evidence there of 1-2 year gap between sprue design and release.
It's how they operate. It works. they have no need to fix what ain't broken.
I can see with the factions starting to break up that the banshees might side with the Yvraine along with maybe wyches as the most senior of leaders for each are already on her side.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The Silent King and his Necron loyalists vs Tyranids as a future instalment would be cool.
And we could get our Pariah back too. IIRC, once upon a time, Necrons were directly anti-psychic, at least in the fluff.
But really, there is a very strong possibility that all Necrons get are 1-2 pages of not-particularly-useful rules. Fingers crossed that's not the case though...
They are basically the last ones in 40K at present. Which is not to say that there isn't room to still update/remove finecast and to add new models or update old plastics in other ranges; but that Craftworlders are very much the last. I hope that they get a good slew of releases to update their aspect warrior lines and add a few more neat things to the range. Give them a proper series of updates and new sculpts to really get them back on track.
DivineVisitor wrote: I think plastic Jain Zar is quite likely given the whole Phoenix Rising stuff. What i really want to see is the Avatar of Khaine given the same up-scaling and plastic treatment as the Chaos Greater Daemons (though its probably never going to happen).
The Avatar used to be the biggest of bads in 40k with a whopping S and T 8 and a 2+ save that couldn't get worse than 4+. Now even a meer Carnifex has better toughness.
THIS. It's what I've said in the last two community surveys, practically begging for it.
They are basically the last ones in 40K at present. Which is not to say that there isn't room to still update/remove finecast and to add new models or update old plastics in other ranges; but that Craftworlders are very much the last. I hope that they get a good slew of releases to update their aspect warrior lines and add a few more neat things to the range. Give them a proper series of updates and new sculpts to really get them back on track.
Indeed,.
Personally i would also like a look at eldar Corsairs.
Jain Zar, the Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect is at present a big fan of Yvraine. And if you dont think the PLs are being updated alongside their Aspects, you're bonkers.
Eh. I won't be surprised if they're disposed of in Warhammer Legends and never addressed again.
They are in the Craftworld Codex. Cannot "Legends" them until Craftworlds Codex 2.0, and even that I find doubtful.
We're two codexes into the 2.0 codex cycle (well... one and a half). That isn't a barrier.
Galef wrote: We might be reading more into that than we need to. That empty space could just be there for text blocks, but someone forgot to:
A) add a text block there or
B) zoom in/center the image if a text block wasn't; intended
Dunno about that. It's actually moved so far right the outer Segmentum Pacificus is missing. It looks like they did zoom in, except on the east.
Anyway, I still find it funny after all Eye of Terror hyping, it's actually the Maelstrom that is the biggest and most important warp storm/zone
I came to say this, I don't think the map has ever been extended so far. What's supposed to be there, if anyone has deep fluff knowledge please do share.
Well, there was the Second Imperium thing, but Black Library squashed that nice HH dangling thread for no sane reason at all...
Segersgia wrote: The map has a very large empty area on the right. Almost like we might have a focus beyond even the Eastern Fringes.
Spoiler:
See what I mean?
Isn’t that where they normally overlay the text box in Codexes? I think it’s just the image they use without anything in there. Not an indication of a new front.
Well, not much to go off of atm. They've been pretty tight about releasing any info about this campaign. I guess I'll see if they decide to show anything of substance on Monday.
Segersgia wrote: The map has a very large empty area on the right. Almost like we might have a focus beyond even the Eastern Fringes.
Spoiler:
See what I mean?
Isn’t that where they normally overlay the text box in Codexes? I think it’s just the image they use without anything in there. Not an indication of a new front.
All this time the greatest threat to the galaxy was hiding behind the text box!
I don't mind Eldar internecine religious dispute/conflict. It certainly would be a development in the otherwise static Eldar background. The Eldar are not a unified bloc and this is an opportunity to add more nuance and depth to their many factions.
Basically all the Eldar kindreds think their way of life is the best and the way to survive.
Ynnari obviously want to awaken Ynnead.
Dark Eldar want to continue their soul draining.
Craftworlders believe in the superiority of the Path and think Ynnead is a false hope or even if they do believe in Ynnead, think the Ynnari are mistaken in trying to prematurely awaken Ynnead.
Harlequins have their own plans and try to enact the Laughing God's final act, that supposedly will trick Slaanesh into saving the Eldar instead of destroying them.
Exodites follow their own way of life. Like the Dark Eldar they seem to just want to continue their status quo.
Corsairs just want to have fun and exist between all the major factions.
Unlike much of the Imperium, Eldar actually can transition between these factions, which is why their conflict is also one of ideology and persuasion as much as it is of fighting. We have seen several kinds of transitions in the Black Library Eldar novels. We have seen Craftworlders give in to their desires and become Corsairs then Dark Eldar. We have seen a Dark Eldar turn to seek balance and become Craftworlder. We have seen one from an Exodite background become a Dark Eldar Incubus. Harlequins are described as recruiting from all the different Eldar kindreds, and similarly for Corsairs and the Ynnari. The only transition we haven't seen is anyone becoming an Exodite.
The location of "Phoenix Rising" on that map suggests this is something to do with Iyanden. So maybe it is less about Asuryan and more about Iyanden trying for a turnaround in its fortunes.
In the related Ynnari background, we have Jain Zarr and Lelith taking an interest in the Ynnari. So don't know whether this Psychic Awakening will advance their individual stories or development.
It was longer than usual but 2 year is quite normal. There's often enough been year markings on sprues to prove that. Model that released in 2018 has 2016 in sprue etc.
People keep underestimating lead times. GW doesn't do things on the fly. Age of Sigmar design proces started in 2012. Released in what? 2015?
In 2012 they weren't cutting molds in house
I could cut a sisters mold in about 20 hours on a tormach with half an hour to an hour of prep
This is not really a difficult process to get under control
Yes. OF course that's not the whole process. It's real simple. GW operates with long schedules. It's been proven over and over again. They aren't just improvising things on the fly. Again you just need to look at sprues. Plenty of evidence there of 1-2 year gap between sprue design and release.
It's how they operate. It works. they have no need to fix what ain't broken.
<citation needed poster>]
Yeah, by 'look at the sprues' he means the dates on them. What comes out in a given year is usually several years old.
For a easy example, look at the contrast paint bottles: they have a _2014_ copyright. That's definitely more long term than 'by the seat of the pants'
They've also explained their process numerous times over the years. The 18-24 months for new models has been consistent for decades and has been backed up repeatedly by people who worked with company, or had behind the scenes access.
This isn't some unexplained or unknown thing. Products take time and are scheduled. Real cock-ups in the schedule (like Sylvaneth) are rare and come from outside.
In the Craftworld codex they mention that battles between Eldar factions, especially those siding with specific phoenix lords have happened in the past. In the Dark Eldar codex they mention the repeated conflicts between Arhra and Karandras. These 2 in particular would allow GW the plot link redo Karandras, Drazhar, Striking Scorpions, and Incubi as all 4 need models currently.
That empty space may very well be blank because they'll either fill it in with a text overview of the current missions as mentioned earlier in this thread, or they'll put a small map there to indicate battles within the Webway where we'll no doubt see Harlequins engage Dark Eldar.
I do genuinely wonder if they will take this opportunity to update the entire eldar line, specifically craft worlds. We know that plastic banshees are 100% confirmed, but of course the cynical brain I have says the other aspects are not guaranteed, although they are probably ‘safe’ bets. I wonder if that will extend to shining spears and warp spiders, which to my knowledge have never had any sort of update.
And let’s face it, the guardian box could use a refreshing, if for no other reason to have a dual-kit guardian/storm guardian box.
And then of course there is all the Dark Eldar stuff that still needs plastic kits. Sure, the sculpts are fresh enough, but making them plastic sure would be good.
godswildcard wrote: I do genuinely wonder if they will take this opportunity to update the entire eldar line, specifically craft worlds. We know that plastic banshees are 100% confirmed, but of course the cynical brain I have says the other aspects are not guaranteed, although they are probably ‘safe’ bets. I wonder if that will extend to shining spears and warp spiders, which to my knowledge have never had any sort of update.
.
Doubt it. Big releases seem to be a thing of the past. Look at how long it is taking to get the new Space Marine line fully fleshed out. From edition launch to...some point in the next couple months, and it still feels like its missing basic tools (particularly melee and AT)
They will certainly do some (hopefully more than just banshees), but all of the aspects strikes me as really unlikely. After all they're making big promises about everybody getting something- that could be a year+ of 40k releases right there..
godswildcard wrote: I do genuinely wonder if they will take this opportunity to update the entire eldar line, specifically craft worlds. We know that plastic banshees are 100% confirmed, but of course the cynical brain I have says the other aspects are not guaranteed, although they are probably ‘safe’ bets. I wonder if that will extend to shining spears and warp spiders, which to my knowledge have never had any sort of update.
And let’s face it, the guardian box could use a refreshing, if for no other reason to have a dual-kit guardian/storm guardian box.
And then of course there is all the Dark Eldar stuff that still needs plastic kits. Sure, the sculpts are fresh enough, but making them plastic sure would be good.
Interesting times ahead for sure.
We have the Ossiarch Bonereapers in October and the Adepta Sororitas in November. That's basically two full armies releasing in the next two months. I would be surprised if there was much more beyond the 'Phoenix Rising' campaign book and the Howling Banshee kit for Psychic Awakening this year.
Yeah, by 'look at the sprues' he means the dates on them. What comes out in a given year is usually several years old.
For a easy example, look at the contrast paint bottles: they have a _2014_ copyright. That's definitely more long term than 'by the seat of the pants'
how many model molds do you think they had to cut in order to release paints
godswildcard wrote: I do genuinely wonder if they will take this opportunity to update the entire eldar line, specifically craft worlds. We know that plastic banshees are 100% confirmed, but of course the cynical brain I have says the other aspects are not guaranteed, although they are probably ‘safe’ bets. I wonder if that will extend to shining spears and warp spiders, which to my knowledge have never had any sort of update.
And let’s face it, the guardian box could use a refreshing, if for no other reason to have a dual-kit guardian/storm guardian box.
And then of course there is all the Dark Eldar stuff that still needs plastic kits. Sure, the sculpts are fresh enough, but making them plastic sure would be good.
Interesting times ahead for sure.
We have the Ossiarch Bonereapers in October and the Adepta Sororitas in November. That's basically two full armies releasing in the next two months. I would be surprised if there was much more beyond the 'Phoenix Rising' campaign book and the Howling Banshee kit for Psychic Awakening this year.
That’s a good point, and you’re probably right. A bit disappointing though.
Craftworlds get split into Aspects and Wraith factions
Drukhari gets split into Kabal/Cults and Covens
Mostly because they did provide Iyanden and Haemoculus Coven supplements at one point so I wouldn't be surprised if that's something they want to develop further as its own thing.
ThatMG wrote: Part of me thinks this Psychic Awakening will be an epic failure due to the heavy PR campaign being pushed.
I'm sure there'll be some "THATS IT?!" complaints, but that's something you could bank on no matter what. GW could litereally take the top 5 most in need of revamped units copdices, literally re-release every unit in the codex, with gorgious highly detailed kits with the bits for every option and build. sell each kit for 5 USDs each, and upon the release announcement within 5 minutes you'd have people on here complaining that GW didn't give those codices any NEW units.
I'm sure there'll be some "THATS IT?!" complaints, but that's something you could bank on no matter what. GW could litereally take the top 5 most in need of revamped units copdices, literally re-release every unit in the codex, with gorgious highly detailed kits with the bits for every option and build. sell each kit for 5 USDs each, and upon the release announcement within 5 minutes you'd have people on here complaining that GW didn't give those codices any NEW units.
To be fair there has been nothing but empty hype for this so far. Hype something up a ton, then deliver something not worthy of all the hype and people are going to complain. That and you can never please everyone, so someone will always complain. But it may not be the same person every time.
Pretty simple to see some in-fighting with the Eldar, it's been heading that way in the fluff a little already. Those warming up and helping the Ynnari are not always popular with those who are following the traditional ways. I could see this being explored rather than a simple dark vs regular. Either way, new pointy ears is a good thing in my book!
And with the position on the map, it certainly is close to where Craftworld Iyanden is (per the Harlequins codex), not to mention they have featured heavily in the fluff with Ynnari.
We know that every single faction is going to get an update with this campaign. Some updates will be rules only, some will be models and rules.
Given this I think it's very unlikely that every single aspect warrior and Phoenix lord sculpt gets redone. This isn't an Eldar only campaign.
I think new banshees and Jain Zar are a given, and perhaps another aspect at most for craftworld. Maybe a new avatar too. Then we'll see possibly one model for Drukhari or Harlies or maybe one or two for Ynnari. That's the most I think we should expect. There's every chance the release sees only new Banshees and Jain Zar.
The new rules are interesting to me, particularly given what GW have just done with the SM codex. Perhaps this will be an opportunity to roll a few supplements for the Eldar factions into one book.
It might be like Warcry though - one faction is the core focus, others get things now and then along the way too. Marketing wise its GW likely realising that there are ways to pay attention to factions beyond releasing new models for them and that when there are periods where they don't release models for a faction for a prolonged period, its still important for them to keep their marketing on that faction all the same.
That would be a good thing, focusing on the faction that has the least amount of updates whilst at the same time not ignoring the rest of the game.
An Actual Englishman wrote: We know that every single faction is going to get an update with this campaign. Some updates will be rules only, some will be models and rules.
Given this I think it's very unlikely that every single aspect warrior and Phoenix lord sculpt gets redone. This isn't an Eldar only campaign.
I think new banshees and Jain Zar are a given, and perhaps another aspect at most for craftworld. Maybe a new avatar too. Then we'll see possibly one model for Drukhari or Harlies or maybe one or two for Ynnari. That's the most I think we should expect. There's every chance the release sees only new Banshees and Jain Zar.
The new rules are interesting to me, particularly given what GW have just done with the SM codex. Perhaps this will be an opportunity to roll a few supplements for the Eldar factions into one book.
maybe but it sounds like this campaign is going to be BIIG, consider the size of the CSM update in vigilius ablaze. we got new CSMs, new havoks, a new abaddon, new terminators, a terrain piece, 2 new HQs, 1 new HQ/Deamon Engine, if eldar got a similer release they could easily get plastics of all 6 aspect warriors.
Overread wrote: It might be like Warcry though - one faction is the core focus, others get things now and then along the way too. Marketing wise its GW likely realising that there are ways to pay attention to factions beyond releasing new models for them and that when there are periods where they don't release models for a faction for a prolonged period, its still important for them to keep their marketing on that faction all the same.
That would be a good thing, focusing on the faction that has the least amount of updates whilst at the same time not ignoring the rest of the game.
It could be like this, yea.
I don't think it'd be a good thing though. I don't want GW to put all of their resources into Eldar, I want them to split their resources evenly between all of the different factions.
I don't feel from the marketing so far that this campaign has a particular focus on Eldar over any other faction. Could be wrong but I'd be surprised.
maybe but it sounds like this campaign is going to be BIIG, consider the size of the CSM update in vigilius ablaze. we got new CSMs, new havoks, a new abaddon, new terminators, a terrain piece, 2 new HQs, 1 new HQ/Deamon Engine, if eldar got a similer release they could easily get plastics of all 6 aspect warriors.
Vigilus Ablaze is a campaign book focused entirely on Chaos though?
This campaign has (as far as we've been told) no specific faction focus.
Overread wrote: It might be like Warcry though - one faction is the core focus, others get things now and then along the way too. Marketing wise its GW likely realising that there are ways to pay attention to factions beyond releasing new models for them and that when there are periods where they don't release models for a faction for a prolonged period, its still important for them to keep their marketing on that faction all the same.
That would be a good thing, focusing on the faction that has the least amount of updates whilst at the same time not ignoring the rest of the game.
It could be like this, yea.
I don't think it'd be a good thing though. I don't want GW to put all of their resources into Eldar, I want them to split their resources evenly between all of the different factions.
I don't feel from the marketing so far that this campaign has a particular focus on Eldar over any other faction. Could be wrong but I'd be surprised.
maybe but it sounds like this campaign is going to be BIIG, consider the size of the CSM update in vigilius ablaze. we got new CSMs, new havoks, a new abaddon, new terminators, a terrain piece, 2 new HQs, 1 new HQ/Deamon Engine, if eldar got a similer release they could easily get plastics of all 6 aspect warriors.
Vigilus Ablaze is a campaign book focused entirely on Chaos though?
This campaign has (as far as we've been told) no specific faction focus.
Gotta agree.
Nothing is pointing towards an Eldar campaign, they just showed one.
All that Chaos stuff, half Vigilus, half the new Chaos book coming after. So it could just be because that was coming out.
If the Eldar book comes out then maybe yeah.
Depends just how long this campaign is (5+ books at least I would guess)
GW has been very clear that its not an Eldar only thing - I'm just saying that I feel Eldar should "dominate" for a good while in the early releases of new models. It would make sense because new Banshees would spark interest in Eldar which is going to translate into more people getting interested in that army far more so now that its getting fresh model attention. So it would make full sense to release more for them than the other factions; esp since the other races are actually all doing rather well for new models and fairly up to date lines.
Eldar are the outliers in the 40K line-up of the major factions at present (at least so far as we forget that Kroot exist). Eldar doesn't need a new book, they just need the models.
And yeah that's a good point that there's a slew of Chaos new models to get individual releases - a way to mix them into this event and get "new" stuff out without it being "new"
The Aeldari lines, except for Harlequins, are some of the largest remaining resin factions so if they are serious about facing out as much resin as they can I can imagine they might give Aeldari some TLC. I think the Drukhari line alone has 14 resin kits left. I at least expect(I know, I am optimistic) plastic Grotesques as that would finish the core Covens leaving Urien as the only resin.
Overread wrote: It might be like Warcry though - one faction is the core focus, others get things now and then along the way too. Marketing wise its GW likely realising that there are ways to pay attention to factions beyond releasing new models for them and that when there are periods where they don't release models for a faction for a prolonged period, its still important for them to keep their marketing on that faction all the same.
That would be a good thing, focusing on the faction that has the least amount of updates whilst at the same time not ignoring the rest of the game.
It could be like this, yea.
I don't think it'd be a good thing though. I don't want GW to put all of their resources into Eldar, I want them to split their resources evenly between all of the different factions.
I don't feel from the marketing so far that this campaign has a particular focus on Eldar over any other faction. Could be wrong but I'd be surprised.
maybe but it sounds like this campaign is going to be BIIG, consider the size of the CSM update in vigilius ablaze. we got new CSMs, new havoks, a new abaddon, new terminators, a terrain piece, 2 new HQs, 1 new HQ/Deamon Engine, if eldar got a similer release they could easily get plastics of all 6 aspect warriors.
Vigilus Ablaze is a campaign book focused entirely on Chaos though?
This campaign has (as far as we've been told) no specific faction focus.
yeah except this isn't a single book. this is like Gathering Storm in that it's several campaign books, and the first one sounds like it might be all about eldar.
You know who else is sometimes referred to as a Phoenix and would love to murder Eldar? Fulgrim. I doubt it would happen, but "trying to birth a god that will starve out Slaanesh" seems like a good reason to deploy a Daemon primarch and excessive amounts of forces. On the flip side, a Slaaneshi Daemon Primarch and his forces would be a big enough deal to force the Eldar's hand. Imperial forces will not like to hear that the guy who shanked their newly resurrected primarch has made a return. Necrons and Eldar are ancient enemies. The Tau are probably still pretty salty over their last cultural exchange with the Dark Eldar. Tyranids really don't need a reason. Everything can center around the Eldar allowing them to push new model lines while giving things to each faction.
Overread wrote: GW has been very clear that its not an Eldar only thing - I'm just saying that I feel Eldar should "dominate" for a good while in the early releases of new models. It would make sense because new Banshees would spark interest in Eldar which is going to translate into more people getting interested in that army far more so now that its getting fresh model attention. So it would make full sense to release more for them than the other factions; esp since the other races are actually all doing rather well for new models and fairly up to date lines.
Eldar are the outliers in the 40K line-up of the major factions at present (at least so far as we forget that Kroot exist). Eldar doesn't need a new book, they just need the models.
And yeah that's a good point that there's a slew of Chaos new models to get individual releases - a way to mix them into this event and get "new" stuff out without it being "new"
Eldar should not dominate. No faction should. There should be releases for all factions equally (probably excluding SM and CSM that have just received new models).
And surely if they release models for ANY faction it sparks interest in said faction? Add in that there are plenty of factions with critical, old, finecast models and many that lost options because 'no model no rules' bs.
As you said at the beginning of your post - GW have made it clear this is not an Eldar only event - speaking as someone who got all kinds of salty over 'Orktober', would adjust your expectations accordingly.
yeah except this isn't a single book. this is like Gathering Storm in that it's several campaign books, and the first one sounds like it might be all about eldar.
How many lines were updated as part of Gathering Storm? That was triumvirate models if I recall. Not entire lines.
As far as I know, GW haven't actually given any kind of timescale for this "event"? So there's nothing inherently incompatible between "initial focus on Eldar to refresh their range" and "every faction gets some focus over the course of the campign".
I'm not arguing that it will happen, but nothing I've seen GW say so far prevents it from happening, and unless they're planning to squat all but one or two Aspects it seems a bit odd to commit to a very faithful update of Banshees in plastic only to then leave the other five sitting there in finecast.
It's kind of funny to see all the hate that Eldar get. Yes, their army currently lends itself to certain abuses, but frankly that's no different than other armies in the game. I'd hate to see people speak poorly of other players or wish ill of an army potentially getting new models just because Matt Ward wrote those bonkers rules that one time (just like he did with WHFB demons and 40K Grey Knights).
And no, I don't play Eldar, but if they get plastic aspects and Pheonix Lords, it will be much more difficult for me to not play Eldar as I love their background, aesthetic and the 'right tool for the right job' approach they have in the army, even if you NEVER see that on a table-top!
As a rule I'd agree, most of what I read from this user is relentlessly negative and critical. Either of the product if they don't like it, or other people if they do and anyone dares to voice an opinion otherwise.
But.
Someone relentlessly playing Wave Serpent spam, and repeatedly refusing to play anything else at all, ever, despite being asked by people who were largely looking for casual fun games, was the straw that broke this camel's back when it came to 40K. On one occasion he used Marines and had a tantrum when his very badly constructed list (ie of his own construction and not netlisted) got smashed by a very tepid Daemons list
While I don't regret leaving it behind and am happy with my gaming, what he describes does exist in the wild, because I've seen it.
Azreal13 wrote: As a rule I'd agree, most of what I read from this user is relentlessly negative and critical. Either of the product if they don't like it, or other people if they do and anyone dares to voice an opinion otherwise.
But.
Someone relentlessly playing Wave Serpent spam, and repeatedly refusing to play anything else at all, ever, despite being asked by people who were largely looking for casual fun games, was the straw that broke this camel's back when it came to 40K. On one occasion he used Marines and had a tantrum when his very badly constructed list (ie of his own construction and not netlisted) got smashed by a very tepid Daemons list
While I don't regret leaving it behind and am happy with my gaming, what he describes does exist in the wild, because I've seen it.
There are no toxic factions, only toxic players. People shouldn't judge all players of one faction because of the poor etiquette of another. I've been playing since 1997 and haven't found the Eldar player base to be any more toxic than that of any other faction.
If you encounter a toxic player simply stop playing them until they change their ways.
Anyway back on topic, I really hope that Plastic Banshees are a sign of things to come and that following them the other Aspects, Phonenix Lords and The Avatar of Khaine get some much needed attention.
I also don't get people suggesting things. There is zero information from the PR material been given. It's more a hype campaign rather than an actual release. Also GW track record so far is terrible making new rules that are invalidated after and/or before release.
Per the Psychic Awakening map, referring to the Eldar. "These factions have become embroiled in a full-scale internecine war for the future of their people." Besides that sentence?
I'll make an educated guess that the first book will focus on the Eldar, or, Aeldari. I'm hoping they redo the remaining Failcrap in plastic for both Craftworlds and Drukhari.
Hey, wait a second, wasn't there supposed to be a Vigilus 3 book at some point? That needs to come out first, otherwise it's just confusing to have two campaigns intertwined.
Phoenix rising? It would make sense for the Eldar internecine conflict to be fanned by Slaanesh, and that would be a good place for Fulgrim and Emperor's Children to get a release.
But I would absolutely rule out a return there at some point, given it’s the New Cadia
Maybe, but Vigilus also kind of had a "season finale" feel to it. Basically, Dark Millennium was Season 1, ending in Vigilus to then give us 8th Ed Season 2 in Psychic Awakening which will be a lot more episodic than Dark Millennium was.
Gramatically, "phoenix rising" indicate just one phoenix rising.
Also, if it refered to Fulgim it ought to say "the Poenix rising" because it refer to a uniqe and specific phoenix.
But then again, there is alvays poetical freedom in these thngs.
Although, in the video, the Inquisitor has the specific Banshee rune burning above the book.
By the way. The video is told from the perspective of a specific Inquisitor who is clearly deeply involved with the big events of the galaxy. If we are grasping for straws here, we might as well hold that as a promise of new "imperial agents" in tis campaign.
Fayric wrote: Gramatically, "phoenix rising" indicate just one phoenix rising.
Also, if it refered to Fulgim it ought to say "the Poenix rising" because it refer to a uniqe and specific phoenix.
I'm curious if that means we're only getting Jain Zar ( for now), or if GW are going to retcon Phoenix Lords into a single unit. That would save them making 5+ unique special character models that would have limited sales.
I think that would make a lot of people incandescent with rage. I mean just look at the hate put there for the new marine models, and GW has deliberately not retired the older marines. If they remove a load of really cool special characters from the narrative at a stroke I think there would be a lot of unhappiness in the existing player base.
Also they put out a special commisar in plastic, and if there is anything more niche than that it's hard to say.
Flinty wrote: I think that would make a lot of people incandescent with rage. I mean just look at the hate put there for the new marine models, and GW has deliberately not retired the older marines. If they remove a load of really cool special characters from the narrative at a stroke I think there would be a lot of unhappiness in the existing player base.
Also they put out a special commisar in plastic, and if there is anything more niche than that it's hard to say.
I don't think they'll do it eaither but GW might figure they can get away with it for a line that is less popular then Marines, even though I'd be willing to bet Eldar are the most popular xenos army.
Exactly. And if anything the Eldar are the most iconic 40k race. The plot develop.ent and effort into the background and concept are probably the most advanced of any, possibly even the Imperium.
In a world where a Black Marine and a Black Marine With Silver Hand apparently require different rules, it's hard to see GW rolling Phoenix Lords together.
Flinty wrote: Exactly. And if anything the Eldar are the most iconic 40k race. The plot develop.ent and effort into the background and concept are probably the most advanced of any, possibly even the Imperium.
err yeaah no. the most iconic race in 40k is the Space Marine. thats not even really up for debate
I'd agree but that's not how things have been even in 8th.
Frankly, it would be nice to see some love for the Eldar factions, given their current states:
- Corsairs basically no longer exist as an army.
- Dark Eldar haven't had a new unit since 2011, yet in the meantime something like 11 HQs (including bike and skyboard options, mini-Archons and Haemonculi, and 5 special characters) and 3 Elite choices have been gradually stripped out of their codex. Not to mention masses of wargear - including wargear that actually had models (like the Soul Trap).
- Harlequins have been fleshed out a bit but are still an incredibly threadbare army.
- Ynnari are still a complete mess with a horribly over-complicated army-building mechanic, tied around the forced inclusion of 3 special characters and with a convoluted mass of changes and exceptions, on top of basically being nerfed into the ground. It's a shame because they have so flavourful Warlord Traits, Artefacts and Psychic Powers, but even building an army with them is an obnoxious task.
- Craftworld Eldar are probably the only Eldar faction that don't need new units, though they could definitely do with some updated kits.
(Not saying that other armies don't deserve attention. Just that some love for the Eldar - and especially the non-Craftworld factions - wouldn't be unjustified.)
I'd agree but that's not how things have been even in 8th.
It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.
As to new models for the different Eldar factions, they haven't done badly from the releases over the last decade or so. Dark Eldar have mostly plastic models, Harlequins are all plastic and incredibly new, Craftworld need some love for their aspects but many of their other, older kits still look great (Hyper, Falcon for example) and I don't believe Ynnari was supposed to be anything but a few characters rather than an entire new force.
Every faction has old models that need updating. The focus should be split. And GW have made it incredibly clear that the focus of this campaign will be split between every faction. Not just one.
It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.
I'l believe that when I see it.
My honest opinion is that this campaign will just be a load more stuff for SMs and Chaos and maybe a Stratagem each for the other factions so that they have technically got new rules.
But this is the point I made earlier - it's not just about updating models.
Dark Eldar has *lost* the following units:
- Archon with Skyboard
- Archon with Jetbike
- Haemonculus with Skyboard
- Haemonculus with Jetbike
- Dracon
- Haemonculus Ancient
- Vect
- Lady Malys
- Duke Sliscus
- Kheradruakh the Decapitator
- Asdrubael Vect
These aren't just units with Resin models. They're not even units confined to the Index. They're units that have been removed entirely. Gone. Kaput. If you include the removal of Harlequins (yes, they got their own codex but it's still a loss for the DE one), Trueborn and Bloodbrides then Dark Eldar have literally lost a 3rd of their units.
They have in no way "done well" from recent releases. Literally every codex since 5th has removed units and added absolutely nothing in return.
If the banshees are as big (tall) as the ranger in BSF they will look really weird with the rest of the ancient plastic and resin.
But an army of banshees, jetbikes and wraiths would probably look OK. And that makes sense with the start collecting wraiths deal.
Flinty wrote: I think that would make a lot of people incandescent with rage. I mean just look at the hate put there for the new marine models, and GW has deliberately not retired the older marines. If they remove a load of really cool special characters from the narrative at a stroke I think there would be a lot of unhappiness in the existing player base.
Also they put out a special commisar in plastic, and if there is anything more niche than that it's hard to say.
Marines ALWAYS get special treatment - they don't need to remove the characters from the narative just the codexes - look at the gutting of Dark Eldar - now imagine that happening to any one of the myriad Marines dexes.
Fayric wrote: If the banshees are as big (tall) as the ranger in BSF they will look really weird with the rest of the ancient plastic and resin.
But an army of banshees, jetbikes and wraiths would probably look OK. And that makes sense with the start collecting wraiths deal.
It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.
I'l believe that when I see it.
My honest opinion is that this campaign will just be a load more stuff for SMs and Chaos and maybe a Stratagem each for the other factions so that they have technically got new rules.
Well believe it. They have literally announced new plastic banshees as part of this campaign.
Again, other factions have lost units - I can give you a similar list for Orks. Particularly given the legacy announcement.
As I have stated - regardless of what you want or believe they need, Dark Eldar (nor any other Eldar faction) are not the focus of this campaign. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
When was the last time a non wraith unit was released in plastic for Craftworld Eldar? When the jetbikes came out? (which I still see as a missed opportunity to dual kit with Shining Spears).
Anyway fingers crossed we get more info on what is in store for players on Monday.
Again, other factions have lost units - I can give you a similar list for Orks. Particularly given the legacy announcement.
I'm aware that other factions have lost units. I can't think of any other faction, however, that has lost anything like the number of units DE has lost *and* which has also received absolutely no new units in the last 8 years.
DivineVisitor wrote: When was the last time a non wraith unit was released in plastic for Craftworld Eldar? When the jetbikes came out? (which I still see as a missed opportunity to dual kit with Shining Spears).
Anyway fingers crossed we get more info on what is in store for players on Monday.
Plastic Eldrad or maybe the Spiritseer. Not sure to be honest.
Both armies have had so little. Its kinda absurd.
They are missing plastic models of most of their core units.
Eldar: Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders, Hawks, Spears, Scorpions
Dark Eldar : Incubi, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Beastmasters (and their beasts)
So, so much of these armies left in the past. While Space Marines are getting a new plastic army to replace their old complete plastic army. Its hard to not be a little....salty.
But still, must stay postitive, Banshees are on the way. Perhaps the times are changing.
DivineVisitor wrote: When was the last time a non wraith unit was released in plastic for Craftworld Eldar? When the jetbikes came out? (which I still see as a missed opportunity to dual kit with Shining Spears).
Anyway fingers crossed we get more info on what is in store for players on Monday.
Plastic Eldrad or maybe the Spiritseer. Not sure to be honest.
Spiritseer was the most recent...and it released almost three months earlier than the Space Marine Lieutenant that it came in "Wake the Dead" with.
Eldrad came out in 7th, as part of the buildup to Gathering Storm.
Both armies have had so little. Its kinda absurd.
They are missing plastic models of most of their core units.
Eldar: Banshees, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders, Hawks, Spears, Scorpions
Storm Guardians and Rangers are arguably more "core" than Aspect Warriors...but yeah.
Dark Eldar : Incubi, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Beastmasters (and their beasts)
I'm fully expecting that when/if we get a plastic "Beastmaster"? It will be in a box with a set of beasts.
So, so much of these armies left in the past. While Space Marines are getting a new plastic army to replace their old complete plastic army. Its hard to not be a little....salty.
I feel like using Drukhari, who saw a complete range redesign when all the models(literally barring one: Drazhar) that are currently available went on sale, is a bit disingenuous.
But still, must stay postitive, Banshees are on the way. Perhaps the times are changing.
That's how I'm having to be about the missing Vanguard stuff for Primaris.
Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.
the_scotsman wrote: Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.
This is something that I was originally going to also post about.
Rather than "Cool! Everyone's getting something!", it's become nothing but "You're Space Marines, you don't get to be annoyed if you don't get things released in a reasonable timeframe!". Yeah, most of us get that other factions are waiting for things. It doesn't change that this release has been dragged out in a weird manner--and that's not even accounting for the expansion books.
Hopefully, this Psychic Awakening doesn't get dragged out like the Marine release has.
Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?
An Actual Englishman wrote: Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?
I assumed we'd just run out of rumours, since GW's leaks thus far basically amount to something between bugger and all.
the_scotsman wrote: Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.
This is something that I was originally going to also post about.
Rather than "Cool! Everyone's getting something!", it's become nothing but "You're Space Marines, you don't get to be annoyed if you don't get things released in a reasonable timeframe!".
Hopefully, this Psychic Awakening doesn't get dragged out like the Marine release has.
The reason it's become that is quite simply that the idea waiting a few months for something is an "unreasonable timeframe" is laughable in the broader context of GW releases, and demonstrates that some Marine players have allowed their army's preferential treatment over the years to warp their perspective on what constitutes reasonable.
We're talking about people hoping that Eldar get replacements for models that have been around for decades, that a measly handful of boxes be dedicated to that, and some Marine players are blubbing about the second full multi-kit release for their second all-plastic army being less than immediate? I'd say "welcome to playing every other faction for the last twenty years", but even that wouldn't be accurate since most of them wouldn't even have dreamt of having not only their whole range in plastic but a second range as well, on top of all the special units for variant subfactions.
The closest to Marines are Guard who have two themed plastic infantry ranges, comprising six boxes total, and themselves being 15-20 years old. The idea Marines are hard done by is sheer comedy.
Flinty wrote: Exactly. And if anything the Eldar are the most iconic 40k race. The plot develop.ent and effort into the background and concept are probably the most advanced of any, possibly even the Imperium.
I have to say that the Eldar are part of the big three for 40K; Space Marines, Eldar and Orks. Space Marines are probably the most well known thanks to Space Crusade(with Heroquest, they shot GW to super-stardom), and the Orks brutally-mad humour was right at home in the UK, and made them an instant hit. The Orks also happened to be the most encountered alien race in Space Crusade, which probably made them almost as popular! There was also a big deal during the early 90s with the Armageddon campaign, which introduced(?) ghazghkull and Yarrick, so the orks were definitely huge.
After the grim marines and comical orks, you then had grace and a pleasing asthetic. The Eldar were certainly that and undoubtably had the most beautiful miniatures in the entire GW range. The Howling Banshee is iconic simply for having a face mask similar to that of the Predator, which was obviously a popular film at the time. In a similar respect, those who played Space Crusade immediately compared it to the movie ALIENS( must always be in capitols! ) and without prior knowledge of the 40K's background, newcomers got the impression that the Space Marines were the colonial marines of its universe.
Damn, I remember an Eldar Dreadnought( they were called that at the time ) which won a Golden Demon prize and it was midnight blue and had stars painted on it. Its the perfect example of why the Eldar are so popular with players. Sorry for the trip down memory lane, but they are good ones and are looking forward to collecting a new Eldar army - but this time with much better skill than I had 30 years ago!
the_scotsman wrote: Aww, all the units from the second full scale all plastic primaris army are a month late? How terrible, all the non-SM factions will play you a sad song on a tiny violin.
This is something that I was originally going to also post about.
Rather than "Cool! Everyone's getting something!", it's become nothing but "You're Space Marines, you don't get to be annoyed if you don't get things released in a reasonable timeframe!".
Hopefully, this Psychic Awakening doesn't get dragged out like the Marine release has.
The reason it's become that is quite simply that the idea waiting a few months for something is an "unreasonable timeframe" is laughable in the broader context of GW releases, and demonstrates that some Marine players have allowed their army's preferential treatment over the years to warp their perspective on what constitutes reasonable.
We're talking about people hoping that Eldar get replacements for models that have been around for decades, that a measly handful of boxes be dedicated to that, and some Marine players are blubbing about the second full multi-kit release for their second all-plastic army being less than immediate? I'd say "welcome to playing every other faction for the last twenty years", but even that wouldn't be accurate since most of them wouldn't even have dreamt of having not only their whole range in plastic but a second range as well, on top of all the special units for variant subfactions.
The closest to Marines are Guard who have two themed plastic infantry ranges, comprising six boxes total, and themselves being 15-20 years old. The idea Marines are hard done by is sheer comedy.
The Eldar range doesn't even outsell a tac squad. Where does this xenos entitlement come from?
Assuming sarcasm filter is off.....
Because even Astra Militarum tire of killing marines?
Because how many people start with SM but move to some other faction? Because a tac squad is the base for how many different flavors of Marine armies?
Insurgency Walker wrote: Assuming sarcasm filter is off.....
Because even Astra Militarum tire of killing marines?
Because how many people start with SM but move to some other faction? Because a tac squad is the base for how many different flavors of Marine armies?
I know that, I just assumed we were posting slowed straw man arguments.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?
I assumed we'd just run out of rumours, since GW's leaks thus far basically amount to something between bugger and all.
Apart from the explicit statement that more would come tomorrow?
An Actual Englishman wrote: Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?
I assumed we'd just run out of rumours, since GW's leaks thus far basically amount to something between bugger and all.
Apart from the explicit statement that more would come tomorrow?
Might as well gripe a bit while we wait though eh?
It passes the time.
Flinty wrote:I think that would make a lot of people incandescent with rage. I mean just look at the hate put there for the new marine models, and GW has deliberately not retired the older marines. If they remove a load of really cool special characters from the narrative at a stroke I think there would be a lot of unhappiness in the existing player base.
Also they put out a special commisar in plastic, and if there is anything more niche than that it's hard to say.
Severina Raine was in finecast. The traitor Commisar isnt special since it'll be released with the upcoming traitor guard(or at least that's the line currently).
Insurgency Walker wrote: Assuming sarcasm filter is off.....
Because even Astra Militarum tire of killing marines?
Because how many people start with SM but move to some other faction? Because a tac squad is the base for how many different flavors of Marine armies?
I know that, I just assumed we were posting slowed straw man arguments.
Those new marine bits look nice btw...
So paraphrasing exactly what some Marine players have been saying is "strawman arguments" now. Lol OK
I'm pretty confident that 40k predates all of Warcraft/Starcraft.
if I ask someone about Orks they immediately think of Orcs(LOTR). If I ask someone about Aeldari, they'll have no idea what I'm talking about. If I as someone what a space marine is they'll say "you mean like starship troopers?".
GW sure are trying really hard to get their IP out into the massed media "nooshpere".
But I digress,
I'm really looking forward to seeing what GW has in store for the 41/2/? millennium.
Fayric wrote: Gramatically, "phoenix rising" indicate just one phoenix rising.
Also, if it refered to Fulgim it ought to say "the Poenix rising" because it refer to a uniqe and specific phoenix.
I'm curious if that means we're only getting Jain Zar ( for now), or if GW are going to retcon Phoenix Lords into a single unit. That would save them making 5+ unique special character models that would have limited sales.
I read this as all the Phoenix Lords will do the "Fusion Dance" and become the ultimate Phoenix Lord.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Guys this thread is to discuss psychic awakening and news/ rumours/theories related to that. Let's save the 'we hate all SM releases' or 'my xeno army deserves the most stuff because x' discussions for another thread huh?
I assumed we'd just run out of rumours, since GW's leaks thus far basically amount to something between bugger and all.
Apart from the explicit statement that more would come tomorrow?
For once, let's have a nice, civil, positive discussion about all the new goodies we're going to get, or hope we're going to get for our respective factions?
I'm looking forward to tomorrow, despite my warnings to Eldar players regarding their expectations, I do hope that Craftworld are getting a ton of new models (they absolutely deserve it) and I'm really looking forward to see the new rules for both factions.
Maybe tomorrow gives us a bit of insight into what we might expect for other books for other factions?
One thing that I haven't really seen anyone mention is that we're almost certainly getting a new Harlequin model here, considering there was a rumour engine pic a while back that had the exact same ruins as all the other Harlequin characters. Maybe a Warlock or Mime?
Aside from that - Craftworlds are getting Banshees and probably Jain Zar, and I'm not expecting any models for DE (although I've seen some rumours floating around of plastic Incubi). But that's fine. The exciting stuff is the potential for new rules, and hopefully we'll learn a lot more about that tomorrow.
There's a part of me that would really like DE to get native psychic powers, but the most realistic possibility that I'd like to see is a focus on anti-psyker tech from them. The Helm of Spite and Crucible strat aren't really enough for a faction that should be able to put psykers on lockdown.
Burnage wrote: One thing that I haven't really seen anyone mention is that we're almost certainly getting a new Harlequin model here, considering there was a rumour engine pic a while back that had the exact same ruins as all the other Harlequin characters. Maybe a Warlock or Mime?
I never noticed this to be honest, are you sure it's a Harlequin model?
Burnage wrote: Aside from that - Craftworlds are getting Banshees and probably Jain Zar, and I'm not expecting any models for DE (although I've seen some rumours floating around of plastic Incubi). But that's fine. The exciting stuff is the potential for new rules, and hopefully we'll learn a lot more about that tomorrow.
There's a part of me that would really like DE to get native psychic powers, but the most realistic possibility that I'd like to see is a focus on anti-psyker tech from them. The Helm of Spite and Crucible strat aren't really enough for a faction that should be able to put psykers on lockdown.
If DEldar are to get Psychic powers, I'd like them to be effectively a slave psyker that they "coerce" into releasing powers for them. Like a penitent engine, but to encourage psykers to release their powers.
Burnage wrote: One thing that I haven't really seen anyone mention is that we're almost certainly getting a new Harlequin model here, considering there was a rumour engine pic a while back that had the exact same ruins as all the other Harlequin characters. Maybe a Warlock or Mime?
I never noticed this to be honest, are you sure it's a Harlequin model?
Obviously not 100% certainty but that's almost an exact match with the other Harlequin characters.
Burnage wrote: Aside from that - Craftworlds are getting Banshees and probably Jain Zar, and I'm not expecting any models for DE (although I've seen some rumours floating around of plastic Incubi). But that's fine. The exciting stuff is the potential for new rules, and hopefully we'll learn a lot more about that tomorrow.
There's a part of me that would really like DE to get native psychic powers, but the most realistic possibility that I'd like to see is a focus on anti-psyker tech from them. The Helm of Spite and Crucible strat aren't really enough for a faction that should be able to put psykers on lockdown.
If DEldar are to get Psychic powers, I'd like them to be effectively a slave psyker that they "coerce" into releasing powers for them. Like a penitent engine, but to encourage psykers to release their powers.
I'd be down for that. I actually think it'd be interesting if more was made out of their penchant for enslaving - slave units like Skaven have would be a neat addition to the Codex. It's a huge part of their fluff that doesn't really impact how they play on the tabletop currently at all.
Given the plastic Banshees, my money would be on Jain Zar for any character release. The portable ruins have shown up on several "recent" Craftworld models as well as the Harlies.
If DEldar are to get Psychic powers, I'd like them to be effectively a slave psyker that they "coerce" into releasing powers for them. Like a penitent engine, but to encourage psykers to release their powers.
If we're dreaming, I'd like them to get a psychic HQ along the lines of the Corsair Prince in 7th.
The Eldar range doesn't even outsell a tac squad. Where does this xenos entitlement come from?
Riiiiiiiiight….. Is that really true though or did you make that up to make your sense of entitlement feel more entitled???? (I joke)
Anyway back on topic, with all this excitement about new banshees , aspects and PLs I totally forgotten that the rangers which are staple troops choice are friggin finecats… Ugh it hurts my soul...
As someone pointed out based on the map the there's likelihood Iyanden would be a strong candidate to getting some focus. I mean it would make sense with the new "apocalypse" box they are trying to sell Eldar players. When people are not buying kits, give those kits some new rules (wraiths as troops anyone? I know I would loooove it!) and presto..sales.
However not sure how banshees and (possibly) Jain Zair would come into this.. so maybe that will be a secondary focus on the ynarri vs CWE narrative. Its really gobsmacking what state the DE/CWE range is with the failcast for days... Maybe they listened to our feedback eh? I know I sure did point out how I would rather be spending money on ebay metal aspects rather than pay for the pile of warm poop they currently sell.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Given the plastic Banshees, my money would be on Jain Zar for any character release. The portable ruins have shown up on several "recent" Craftworld models as well as the Harlies.
The plastic banshee show a little eldar ruin in the rear, not as big as the one show in the rumour, but wouldn't be strange if it's part of a base of a bigger/character model like Jain Zar or some new harlequin.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Given the plastic Banshees, my money would be on Jain Zar for any character release. The portable ruins have shown up on several "recent" Craftworld models as well as the Harlies.
The plastic banshee show a little eldar ruin in the rear, not as big as the one show in the rumour, but wouldn't be strange if it's part of a base of a bigger/character model like Jain Zar or some new harlequin.
I can totally see it being the base for jain zair. I'm about 70% we are going to get jain zair along with banshees. 50% we will see more than just this plastic banshees gimmick (GW being GW is why only 50% lol)
The only question is, why not preview her? Why just one banshee? The optimist in me is thinking that they are saving it for a big release bomb with all manner of new kits Eldar need.
The pessimist part thinks its just to throw us a bone and hush up the vocal negative minority
Argive wrote: I can totally see it being the base for jain zair.
That seems to be the mostly likely outcome given what little we know.
Argive wrote: The only question is, why not preview her? Why just one banshee?
You could say "Why just X?" for most of the Nova 'previews'. It was a terrific example of how to reveal things without actually revealing things.
I mean it did serve a purpose of shutting up eldar players whinging about how crappy fail cast is etc
But if Jain is really being done in plastic, that's far bigger news than banshees being done in plastic... Which leads me onto thinking we will only see basnhees and jain zair being re-done so they are longing it out as long as possible to make it seem like the pointy ears are getting some love. My mind is full of smoke and mirrors these days lol..
The SoB conundrum. The models are gak and there is no interest, to create interest you need new models, but since they don't sell there is no interest.
Just look at that marines vs. tau box. Who wants these ugly FW? They look like a bad joke near new shiny primaris. Makes Tau look bad even though they do have cool stuff like suits and tanks.
Also people usually flock to new shiny stuff. If you don't make it you won't get anyone's attention. Good rules too. Craftworlds codex is a bit uneven with rules as some units are strong but some were always sorta pariahs through editions (like Banshees).
Thankfully new GW management decided that sometimes you have to take risks and appease the fans. Wonder how many of those sister boxes will sell and if it will change their opinion on how to properly support factions. Because no matter how many marines you sell, "heroes" are only ever interesting as their enemies are.
The SoB conundrum. The models are gak and there is no interest, to create interest you need new models, but since they don't sell there is no interest.
Just look at that marines vs. tau box. Who wants these ugly FW? They look like a bad joke near new shiny primaris. Makes Tau look bad even though they do have cool stuff like suits and tanks.
Also people usually flock to new shiny stuff. If you don't make it you won't get anyone's attention. Good rules too. Craftworlds codex is a bit uneven with rules as some units are strong but some were always sorta pariahs through editions (like Banshees).
Thankfully new GW management decided that sometimes you have to take risks and appease the fans. Wonder how many of those sister boxes will sell and if it will change their opinion on how to properly support factions. Because no matter how many marines you sell, "heroes" are only ever interesting as their enemies are.
I agree with what you’re saying, but you know the Fire Warrior kit is fairly new right?
As a Biel-Tan player (among other things) who exclusively uses Aspect Warriors and The Avatar of Khaine I feel like my chosen brand of Eldar have not had much to cheer about for forever so I am very happy we're finally getting another Aspect Warrior in plastic besides the Dire Avengers.
Though I still prefer the design of the older metal ones from 3rd or 4th edition:
.. man someone the other day pointed out to me that eldar aspect warriors heads are as big as their body... I just can't help but immediatly notice that now.
.. man someone the other day pointed out to me that eldar aspect warriors heads are as big as their body... I just can't help but immediatly notice that now.
1. Its 40k so heads are generally out of proportion.
.. man someone the other day pointed out to me that eldar aspect warriors heads are as big as their body... I just can't help but immediatly notice that now.
1. Its 40k so heads are generally out of proportion.
BrianDavion wrote: And if you show them an Ork they think it's fething warcraft.
Spoiler:
Looks like Warcraft?
You know, the way Warcraft has been going, yes! That definitely looks like Warcraft.
Whaaaat ?
Pics or didn't happen!
Can't do pics at the moment, but of the current two zones in retail WoW, one is an island of cyborg gnomes, entirely machine from the head down. It's not entirely different from the mega armor ork if you squint. There is talk of them becoming an 'allied' player race. And one of the drops from the zone is a chain sword. (Albeit with a rather garish color scheme). Some of the mecha gnomes also talk about upgrading the PCs, but that seems unlikely to actually happen.
Anyway, enough derail. Just do a search for wow mechagon, macho gnome or wow chain sword, and you should find pics.
DivineVisitor wrote: As a Biel-Tan player (among other things) who exclusively uses Aspect Warriors and The Avatar of Khaine I feel like my chosen brand of Eldar have not had much to cheer about for forever so I am very happy we're finally getting another Aspect Warrior in plastic besides the Dire Avengers.
Though I still prefer the design of the older metal ones from 3rd or 4th edition:
I agree. The current masks for the leaked image doesn't look elaborate enough and these are much better looking overall. But perhaps the Exarch will have a more ornate appearance.
It hasn't but I suspect that GW have received a fair bit of feedback with people dissatisfied of the focus on pnr faction over others, this campaign representing a response to that feed back.
I'l believe that when I see it.
My honest opinion is that this campaign will just be a load more stuff for SMs and Chaos and maybe a Stratagem each for the other factions so that they have technically got new rules.
But this is the point I made earlier - it's not just about updating models.
Dark Eldar has *lost* the following units:
- Archon with Skyboard
- Archon with Jetbike
- Haemonculus with Skyboard
- Haemonculus with Jetbike
- Dracon
- Haemonculus Ancient
- Vect
- Lady Malys
- Duke Sliscus
- Kheradruakh the Decapitator
- Asdrubael Vect
These aren't just units with Resin models. They're not even units confined to the Index. They're units that have been removed entirely. Gone. Kaput. If you include the removal of Harlequins (yes, they got their own codex but it's still a loss for the DE one), Trueborn and Bloodbrides then Dark Eldar have literally lost a 3rd of their units.
They have in no way "done well" from recent releases. Literally every codex since 5th has removed units and added absolutely nothing in return.
Dark eldar got fethed in a rights snarl made by some early days amateur mistakes by gw
Now that you mention the Dark Eldar losing Vect, isn’t there (wasn’t there?) a persistent rumor that the Vect model is done and is just sitting around waiting for a release? I’m pretty sure that I remember the rumor being he was done, modeled on his command barge and it was supposed to be a proper LoW choice for the Dark Eldar.
Psychic awakening sure seems like a good time to release plastic Incubi and Vect I’d you ask me (to say nothing about the other resin things in the DE range)
godswildcard wrote: Now that you mention the Dark Eldar losing Vect, isn’t there (wasn’t there?) a persistent rumor that the Vect model is done and is just sitting around waiting for a release? I’m pretty sure that I remember the rumor being he was done, modeled on his command barge and it was supposed to be a proper LoW choice for the Dark Eldar.
Psychic awakening sure seems like a good time to release plastic Incubi and Vect I’d you ask me (to say nothing about the other resin things in the DE range)
Sometimes I just like to imagine what would happen if games workshop decided "hey, you know Ghazghkull? You know, like the center of pretty much every ork lore, who every named character in the ork codex either works for or is connected to? His model is out of date, so he's not in the game anymore.
For three editions.
You'll get a new Ghazkhull someday.
What? No, all the lore is gonna continue to be about him, he's still going to be the only character in your faction who matters. Just like...sit tight yall."
Miniature looks dated compared to other recent stuff.
That said, if they make Ynnari (e.g. close-combat leaning, non-mech) pointy ears half-way playable again, I am all in.
That said, with things like GSC Aberrants, White Scar Assault Terminators/Centurions, Knight Gallants, Lord Discordants, etc.. setting the close-combat benchmark these days, they need a lot.
Love the model. Exarch powers making a return in a big way is exciting. 6 just for banshees? Crazy. Let's hope they do it for more than just one aspect, though.
Pretty cool. Wish they would have stayed closer to Jes' concept art for the Exarch details but the maskless head will be great for Autarch conversions as it is basically genderless and I'm glad they didn't reinvent the wheel with them (or did some silly Ynnari upgrades - Ynnari status is depicted only by a scarlet red paint job it seems).
Only criticism is the hair. Could do with some more movement like the metal versions, guess it's the limitations of plastic. But then we haven't seen a 360 yet.
Gonna pin the posing problem on the specific angle of the photograph. GW love choosing the absolute worst way to show off the dynamic models they've been coming out with lately.
Tim the Biovore wrote: Gonna pin the posing problem on the specific angle of the photograph. GW love choosing the absolute worst way to show off the dynamic models they've been coming out with lately.
Each Psychic Awakening expansion focusses on a different war zone, providing a new perspective to this galaxy-spanning event. The series will see plot threads that have enticed fans for decades resolved, champions new and old rise to the fore, and staggering revelations made.
Meanwhile, each book will have powerful and thematic rules updates for at least two Factions, giving you more flexibility than before.
I think the new banshees still look worse than the 3e era ones. Why does the exarch have some short helmet and crown thing? What happened to the super tall and distinctive banshee helmets?
Looks awesome, finally some alternative heads too!
I had honestly given up all hope of plastic aspect warriors, aspect warriors were the catalyst that got me into 40k for real.
It doesn't matter if they made aspect models the best models their rules still suck! Kinda view the whole range of aspects need to be primarisfied to be useful. +1 W/A and especially need +1 at a minimum as S3 sucks and defeats the point. that and or points reductions.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
They’re going to make psychic Tau, aren’t they?
Or even worse, Psychic Necrons.
The only time I'll accept Psychic Necrons is if its an explicit JoJo reference, complete with well oiled abs, and if there are stands involved which may or may not actually be C'tan shenanigans.
Tim the Biovore wrote: Gonna pin the posing problem on the specific angle of the photograph. GW love choosing the absolute worst way to show off the dynamic models they've been coming out with lately.
They really do. I'm going to reserve judgment for when I can see the 360 of, but from this angle the pose doesn't work for me.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
They’re going to make psychic Tau, aren’t they?
I’d say that implies the opposite, really. It specifies ‘all factions’ separately to the psychically sensitive, which says to me some factions are remaining psychically insensitive.
I wonder whether it'll just be Howling Banshees or all aspects that will be getting these special traits.
Also, I wonder whether maybe just maybe it'd have been more efficient to fix banshees being awful by making them slightly more powerful than 2x S3 Ap-3 attacks rather than tying all their power to a crazy potent squad leader.
I do look forward to my chad banshee exarch styling on my succubus even harder than she already does.
Virgin Succubus pays 65 points for 3 attacks that hit on 3s S5 AP-3 D1
Chad Banshee Exarch pays 13pts for 2 attacks that hit on 3s S8 AP-3 D3.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
They’re going to make psychic Tau, aren’t they?
Or even worse, Psychic Necrons.
The only time I'll accept Psychic Necrons is if its an explicit JoJo reference, complete with well oiled abs, and if there are stands involved which may or may not actually be C'tan shenanigans.
The Tau have plenty of Psychic allies and subjects - I really hope that GW does not make a Psychic Tau super suit instead but the actual lore supports a array of possible psykers that could be used in the Empire.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
They’re going to make psychic Tau, aren’t they?
Or even worse, Psychic Necrons.
The only time I'll accept Psychic Necrons is if its an explicit JoJo reference, complete with well oiled abs, and if there are stands involved which may or may not actually be C'tan shenanigans.
The Tau have plenty of Psychic allies and subjects - I really hope that GW does not make a Psychic Tau super suit instead but the actual lore supports a array of possible psykers that could be used in the Empire.
True, the Tau do have auxiliaries and it would be great if GW would use the Psychic Awakening to expand upon them, and introduce Nicassar, Kroot Shamans, psychic Gue'Vesa, and those creepy worm things.
Knowing GW though, they will probably go for the big dumb psychic suit approach. Hopefully they'll stick a Nicassar in there, if that's to be the case.
These banshees are pretty meh. The pose is awkward, the hair looks unaturally chunky, and the exarch's crown helmet looks stupid. And overall the design looks somewhat dated. I wish they had used the 3rd edition (?) version as a base, that had many cool elements.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
They’re going to make psychic Tau, aren’t they?
Or even worse, Psychic Necrons.
The only time I'll accept Psychic Necrons is if its an explicit JoJo reference, complete with well oiled abs, and if there are stands involved which may or may not actually be C'tan shenanigans.
The Tau have plenty of Psychic allies and subjects - I really hope that GW does not make a Psychic Tau super suit instead but the actual lore supports a array of possible psykers that could be used in the Empire.
True, the Tau do have auxiliaries and it would be great if GW would use the Psychic Awakening to expand upon them, and introduce Nicassar, Kroot Shamans, psychic Gue'Vesa, and those creepy worm things.
Knowing GW though, they will probably go for the big dumb psychic suit approach. Hopefully they'll stick a Nicassar in there, if that's to be the case.
This is what I mean; I have no problem with psychic auxiliaries of any of those sort, but please, no psychic Tau.
I am curious about how easily swappable the heads/faces are. AFAIK, there is no bit in any kit for a female craftworld eldar without a helmet (several female drukhari heads and obviously you've got the fantasy elf ranges to choose from) but I'm guessing it's only the front part of the face you swap out for the mask. The hair sculpt appears to be completely identical.
So unless there's a third face bit, your choices out of the kit will probably be Maskshee/Dudeshee and if you want to have a helmetless female howling banshee exarch you'll have to do some surgery on a drukhari bit.
Having done a bunch of Drukhari-to-Harlequin bit conversion, removing the face area without mangling it is not an easy task.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please do make psychic Drukhari.
Please do make psychic Drukhari.
Please do make psychic Drukhari.
Isn't that forbidden by Vect, on penalty of horrible death?
Hell yes, but if we could get some of the crazy psychic madness we had in the FW Corsairs list in either a drukhari or a ynnari flavor I'd be all in on that.
We also know that there have been a lot of disturbances in Commoragh. It can't all be Vect's doing so it would be a reasonable explanation that some DE aren't masking their presence and demons are sniffing them out. Could also tie in the Shadow realm (forget name, the place the Mandrakes come from) being an interesting place to bring some psykers in. Or they could just capture Farseers, strap them into a Talos, and go to crazy town. Perhaps the Talos can shield their psychic presence in a coffin and unleash it on the battlefield.
The psychically sensitive have felt the impact most keenly, but there are far-reaching consequences for every race and faction.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please don’t make psychic Tau.
Please do make psychic Drukhari.
Please do make psychic Drukhari.
Please do make psychic Drukhari.
Isn't that forbidden by Vect, on penalty of horrible death?
Yeah, but they've been slightly flexible about it in the past - e.g., Nightmare Dolls were apparently made using psychic powers, the Haemonculi have the Diabolical Soothsayer trait, Baron Sathonyx and Malys basically had psychic powers. I also could have sworn that I've read a bit of fluff somewhere that Drukhari that join the Ynnari are redeveloping their psychic abilities but I'll be damned if I can find it again.
Hell yes, but if we could get some of the crazy psychic madness we had in the FW Corsairs list in either a drukhari or a ynnari flavor I'd be all in on that.
This.
Nvs wrote: We also know that there have been a lot of disturbances in Commoragh. It can't all be Vect's doing so it would be a reasonable explanation that some DE aren't masking their presence and demons are sniffing them out. Could also tie in the Shadow realm (forget name, the place the Mandrakes come from) being an interesting place to bring some psykers in.
Mandrake-Psykers (or pseudo-psykers) would be awsome.
Then they realize how bloated the game is and reboot for 9th lol.
Oh please. You need at most a Core Book, CA if you're an older army(although realistically, there aren't really any armies that need hard erratas, just points tweaks--if you can't sort that out before you go to game? that's on you), your Codex, and maybe Vigilus.
I could, in any regards, see them doing a soft-reboot like AoS2.0...but I have a hard time seeing them getting every army a new book by the end of the year plus new models to go with it.
I sincerely hope the exarchs are not turned into Lt level characters again like 2nd ed and released as individual clampacks... That would get expensive.
Red Corsair wrote: I sincerely hope the exarchs are not turned into Lt level characters again like 2nd ed and released as individual clampacks... That would get expensive.
Warhammer Community wrote:There’s another crucial element to the new Howling Banshees kit – check out this variant Exarch. Wait a minute… is that an Exarch without a mask on? Yes, indeed! The kit comes with a maskless head option for depicting an Ynnari Exarch, for they walk a very different path to their Craftworld cousins. We’ll have more on this incredible new kit and its variations soon.
It's in the box. The bonuses in one of the Stratagem apply to "the unit", and unless it's some weird purchased upgrade for the unit that gets sold separately ala Infinity...I think you're safe.
Then they realize how bloated the game is and reboot for 9th lol.
Oh please. You need at most a Core Book, CA if you're an older army(although realistically, there aren't really any armies that need hard erratas, just points tweaks--if you can't sort that out before you go to game? that's on you), your Codex, and maybe Vigilus.
I could, in any regards, see them doing a soft-reboot like AoS2.0
Red Corsair wrote: I sincerely hope the exarchs are not turned into Lt level characters again like 2nd ed and released as individual clampacks... That would get expensive.
Warhammer Community wrote:There’s another crucial element to the new Howling Banshees kit – check out this variant Exarch. Wait a minute… is that an Exarch without a mask on? Yes, indeed! The kit comes with a maskless head option for depicting an Ynnari Exarch, for they walk a very different path to their Craftworld cousins. We’ll have more on this incredible new kit and its variations soon.
It's in the box. The bonuses in one of the Stratagem apply to "the unit", and unless it's some weird purchased upgrade for the unit that gets sold separately ala Infinity...I think you're safe.
Ok awesome I missed that since I was skimming on my phone. I hope to see less clam pack characters since I play GSC and my wallet got a thrashing by that formula.
Togusa wrote: So, I'm starting to think that each faction is gonna get the marine treatment.
Faction Codex:
<Craftworld> <Regiment> <Hive Fleet> books to follow.
With each book realase 1-2 new kits (redoos of out of date kits) or entirely new units and a character or two.
Psychic Awakening will tie it all together providing a campaign book, missions, story and extras.
I think it'll be a little like this except GW have said that there will be at least 2 factions per book so I don't think they'll have anywhere near the detail of the supplements in terms of rules/stratagems/relics etc
H.B.M.C. wrote: D'ya ever get that weird feeling that all your hopes for plastic Aspects will be for nought as it's just Banshees getting it?
GW knows... they want all of us Eldar collectors who've been calling for plastic aspects to buy tons of banshees, because we've been waiting for so long and we know that if they sell well it will help show that there's a market for updated aspects. Then after we've bought far more plastic banshees than we'll ever need, they'll drip-feed another plastic aspect, and repeat.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there are only a few aspects (maybe just two) in this release including their Phoenix Lords, and there are further releases in future PA books.
H.B.M.C. wrote: D'ya ever get that weird feeling that all your hopes for plastic Aspects will be for nought as it's just Banshees getting it?
I'd say getting plastic anything is a little more than nought.
Banshees + Exarch + Jain Zar in plastic is a better spot than Eldar were in 2 weeks ago.
True, and that would be two kits, better than nothing. Still, it would be prefered to have the rest of the aspects in plastic with Ynnari variations if that is the road they're going down.
Togusa wrote: So, I'm starting to think that each faction is gonna get the marine treatment.
Faction Codex:
<Craftworld> <Regiment> <Hive Fleet> books to follow.
With each book realase 1-2 new kits (redoos of out of date kits) or entirely new units and a character or two.
Psychic Awakening will tie it all together providing a campaign book, missions, story and extras.
I think it'll be a little like this except GW have said that there will be at least 2 factions per book so I don't think they'll have anywhere near the detail of the supplements in terms of rules/stratagems/relics etc
The supplements tend to be under 100 pages though whilst the campaign books tend to get quite thick.
Togusa wrote: So, I'm starting to think that each faction is gonna get the marine treatment.
Faction Codex:
<Craftworld> <Regiment> <Hive Fleet> books to follow.
With each book realase 1-2 new kits (redoos of out of date kits) or entirely new units and a character or two.
Psychic Awakening will tie it all together providing a campaign book, missions, story and extras.
I think it'll be a little like this except GW have said that there will be at least 2 factions per book so I don't think they'll have anywhere near the detail of the supplements in terms of rules/stratagems/relics etc
The supplements tend to be under 100 pages though whilst the campaign books tend to get quite thick.
they could easily cram everything in a supplement into a campaign book, the only advantages of the supplements where the faction fluff,
An Actual Englishman wrote: Banshees + Exarch + Jain Zar in plastic is a better spot than Eldar were in 2 weeks ago.
From a tautological standpoint, yes, but it'd be a real shame for Eldar to spend all this time with so many old or metal/resin minis only to get a plastic releases for... one of them.
I mean, haven't we been dreaming of a proper Shining Spears kit for literal decades now?
The Banshee looks cool but she looks sort of... I dunno, uninspired? Eldar could be really mystical and interesting but this lady just looks a little bit too usual to their old resin models. That said, I would love to see other Aspects done in plastic.
Also, speaking of the later possibilities of Psychic Awakening; as the Black Rage is a psychic phenomena I wander if this will bring Primaris Death Company to the Blood Angels. Could potentially be pretty badass.
And the idea of this campaign bringing old legends and stories to a proper conclusion could theoretically lead to Dante’s death defending the golden throne from the Tyranids. Leading to an Avatar of Sanguinius model, seeing as he’s whirling around in the warp somewhere?
Just spitballing but some potential cool things happening for the Angels and Tyranids when their campaign book drops.
Mr Morden wrote: I remember when the Avatar could take Exarch powers - try and get invisibility on it
Make quie a ncie a variant Succubus out the maskless Banshee - they are perfectly servicable models but I have quite a lot of Bashees.....
Asume two to three books - Vigilis was ok but with a very Meh ending, only certain (mainly marines) got anything and they got loads.
Shield of Baal was a much better campaign book imo (especially if they had bothered to put in rules for Sisters in it!)
I'm expecting 1 book focusing on Craftworlds before the next one goes to a different war zone.
Seems like it from the wording.
But also, two to three books?
It’s gonna be way more.
What makes you say that? The other campaigns have been 2-3 books and very little long term content.
'Something for everyone' doesn't make any problems of depth or quantity, just that the releases will be broad across factions.
Which is easily covered by a 'campaign' that isn't stuck on a single planet.
Personally I'm not a fan of the banshee but I was NEVER a fan of the Elda aestetic so I'm not the "target market" but for the sake of eldar players I hope they feel GW;s knocked it out of the park
Togusa wrote: So, I'm starting to think that each faction is gonna get the marine treatment.
Faction Codex:
<Craftworld> <Regiment> <Hive Fleet> books to follow.
With each book realase 1-2 new kits (redoos of out of date kits) or entirely new units and a character or two.
Psychic Awakening will tie it all together providing a campaign book, missions, story and extras.
I think it'll be a little like this except GW have said that there will be at least 2 factions per book so I don't think they'll have anywhere near the detail of the supplements in terms of rules/stratagems/relics etc
The supplements tend to be under 100 pages though whilst the campaign books tend to get quite thick.
they could easily cram everything in a supplement into a campaign book, the only advantages of the supplements where the faction fluff,
They could, of course, but GW haven't so far so I don't think they will here.
The Vigilus detachments add 4 or 5 stratagems, one relic and one warlord trait.
As a ton of the SM detachments stratagems have been added to the codex proper, I hope GW look to do a similar thing here, by making new stratagems no cost, or they make them appropriately powerful. The majority of Vigilus was a complete waste.
H.B.M.C. wrote: D'ya ever get that weird feeling that all your hopes for plastic Aspects will be for nought as it's just Banshees getting it?
Hope and GW don't go well together. But in this case that might be a little paranoid. Or have we ceased believing that Ynnari are the future of the Eldar? Because the specific inclusion of an Ynnari variant in the new Banshee kit or rules is about as close as it gets to securing the future of an Eldar unit in the same way primarisizing a Marine character is.
If Ynnari are the future and as long as they don't have a large enough selection of models to make an army of their own, it's reasonable to assume that they'll continue getting aspects with a variant for classic Eldar.
Mr Morden wrote: I remember when the Avatar could take Exarch powers - try and get invisibility on it
Make quie a ncie a variant Succubus out the maskless Banshee - they are perfectly servicable models but I have quite a lot of Bashees.....
Asume two to three books - Vigilis was ok but with a very Meh ending, only certain (mainly marines) got anything and they got loads.
Shield of Baal was a much better campaign book imo (especially if they had bothered to put in rules for Sisters in it!)
I'm expecting 1 book focusing on Craftworlds before the next one goes to a different war zone.
Seems like it from the wording.
But also, two to three books?
It’s gonna be way more.
What makes you say that? The other campaigns have been 2-3 books and very little long term content.
'Something for everyone' doesn't make any problems of depth or quantity, just that the releases will be broad across factions.
Which is easily covered by a 'campaign' that isn't stuck on a single planet.
End Times got five books.
They promised revelations about long standing mysteries for that series, too.
Worth considering that after 40k only got a soft reboot with Gathering Storm, there's potential for GW to pick up where they left off and finish the job.
That doesn't necessitate more books than other recent campaigns got, but there is no reason to rule it out either. GW is not going to hold back if they think they can sell a longer series. Nor are they going to stop selling books, and if they cut down on codices now that everyone's got theirs, those paper releases have to be filled with something else. Could be a long Psychic Awakening series. Could be a short series followed by a different campaign.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Impressed by the masked banshee, not so much by the unmasked one. I hope they make mirrorswords good, but it looks like the triskele is gone.
BrianDavion wrote: Personally I'm not a fan of the banshee but I was NEVER a fan of the Elda aestetic so I'm not the "target market" but for the sake of eldar players I hope they feel GW;s knocked it out of the park
There's something about the Eldar armour that's always put me off. Not sure what it is exactly, maybe all the weird, ovoid plates everywhere? It looks like they glued slices of ham to themselves and then painted over them.
I think this confirms that it's only banshees getting updated in the first campaign book, not the other aspects.
The reason I think this is that the Banshee stratagem shown says "When you select a Howling Banshee Exarch power from the list opposite..."
So the strat is next to the banshee rules in the book. I don't think there will be other strats on the same page saying "Scorpion Exarch powers list opposite", and I'm sure all stratagems are usually grouped together.
It's likely to be a formation like the windrider host/ Wraith host ones from Vigilus with just a couple of strats, relic, WL trait. This makes at seem like there won't be a codex anytime soon either.
I also think the rules shown here are pretty pointless:
S7 3D pokes from the Exarch means she wants to be going after different targets to the rest of her squad.
You can swap out Exarch Powers before the battle so you have to decide if you want -1 to be hit or a slightly stabbier Exarch before you know what fight they will make it into.
You can pay a whole CPbefore the battle to not lose -1 to be hit on a unit that may not even make it into combat. That's a horrible waste of a CP right there.
Lets hope they've shown the worst Exarch power first.
So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
Unless lore has changed having no mask would mean no Banshee scream. So they probably have a different power than that as a basic ability.
Albertorius wrote: So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
I actually makes a huge difference. When an Eldar dons his/her mask, it is not just putting on a piece of armor. It it the metaphysical transformation from “citizen” to “warrior”. They change the way they think, they act, they feel. This lets them fight without getting lost in the sensations of battle. And when they take that mask off, they are able to return to the world of peace, without some epic levels of PTSD. Remember, the eldar are a very psychically sensitive race. The battlefield is not risky just for the chance of getting shot/stabbed. The risk of getting caught up in the frenzy and going mad is very real. The Aspect system of the craftworlds is one path to help survive that. And the core part of that is the donning and removal of the “War Mask”, but real and mentally.
So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
Unless lore has changed having no mask would mean no Banshee scream. So they probably have a different power than that as a basic ability.
That one still has the thingies where the scream comes from, I think
Albertorius wrote: So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
I actually makes a huge difference. When an Eldar dons his/her mask, it is not just putting on a piece of armor. It it the metaphysical transformation from “citizen” to “warrior”. They change the way they think, they act, they feel. This lets them fight without getting lost in the sensations of battle. And when they take that mask off, they are able to return to the world of peace, without some epic levels of PTSD. Remember, the eldar are a very psychically sensitive race. The battlefield is not risky just for the chance of getting shot/stabbed. The risk of getting caught up in the frenzy and going mad is very real. The Aspect system of the craftworlds is one path to help survive that. And the core part of that is the donning and removal of the “War Mask”, but real and mentally.
But when an exarch gets so far down the rabbit hole, the mask loses its significance, as he can no longer return to being a citizen, and from that moment on his face is his mask (I mean, the idea of an exarch is literally that one: that he can no longer return and that from then on is an embodiment of the path). That was the same way with autarchs, and part of the fact why we've already seen unmasked ones IIRC.
I could see it for a regular aspect warrior. Just not for an exarch.
EDIT: ... and the Dire Avengers sprue has an unmasked head already.
Albertorius wrote: So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
I actually makes a huge difference. When an Eldar dons his/her mask, it is not just putting on a piece of armor. It it the metaphysical transformation from “citizen” to “warrior”. They change the way they think, they act, they feel. This lets them fight without getting lost in the sensations of battle. And when they take that mask off, they are able to return to the world of peace, without some epic levels of PTSD. Remember, the eldar are a very psychically sensitive race. The battlefield is not risky just for the chance of getting shot/stabbed. The risk of getting caught up in the frenzy and going mad is very real. The Aspect system of the craftworlds is one path to help survive that. And the core part of that is the donning and removal of the “War Mask”, but real and mentally.
But when an exarch gets so far down the rabbit hole, the mask loses its significance, as he can no longer return to being a citizen, and from that moment on his face is his mask (I mean, the idea of an exarch is literally that one: that he can no longer return and that from then on is an embodiment of the path). That was the same way with autarchs, and part of the fact why we've already seen unmasked ones IIRC.
I could see it for a regular aspect warrior. Just not for an exarch.
I think autarchs never reach the exarch level, they just have walked multiple paths as warriors. Could be wrong.
That is a fair point about the exarchs and their masks. Once they are that far gone down the path they are the mask, and can never take it off spiritually. They can take is off to let their hair fly free though. I suspect that at that point most exarchs are going to be so emeshed in the rituals of war that they keep going through the motions and putting their helmets on. If for nothing else to show the members of their shrine what they should be doing, even if they themselves are lost.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the lore here.
So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
Unless lore has changed having no mask would mean no Banshee scream. So they probably have a different power than that as a basic ability.
That one still has the thingies where the scream comes from, I think
Albertorius wrote: So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
I actually makes a huge difference. When an Eldar dons his/her mask, it is not just putting on a piece of armor. It it the metaphysical transformation from “citizen” to “warrior”. They change the way they think, they act, they feel. This lets them fight without getting lost in the sensations of battle. And when they take that mask off, they are able to return to the world of peace, without some epic levels of PTSD. Remember, the eldar are a very psychically sensitive race. The battlefield is not risky just for the chance of getting shot/stabbed. The risk of getting caught up in the frenzy and going mad is very real. The Aspect system of the craftworlds is one path to help survive that. And the core part of that is the donning and removal of the “War Mask”, but real and mentally.
But when an exarch gets so far down the rabbit hole, the mask loses its significance, as he can no longer return to being a citizen, and from that moment on his face is his mask (I mean, the idea of an exarch is literally that one: that he can no longer return and that from then on is an embodiment of the path). That was the same way with autarchs, and part of the fact why we've already seen unmasked ones IIRC.
I could see it for a regular aspect warrior. Just not for an exarch.
EDIT: ... and the Dire Avengers sprue has an unmasked head already.
One of the major points of the Ynnari is that they are also trying to recombine the disparate Aeldari factions, which requires a lot more than just politics. When Yvraine was resurected by Ynnead, it made a big deal of the fact that shes a former Aspect Warrior, Corsair and now Wych whilst maintaining mental aspects of all 3 and so was mentally much closer to being like the pre fall (and I'd assume pre-pleasure cults) Aeldari. I would assume that the Exarch's not wearing their armours mask is at least symbolic and I wouldn't be surprised if there's new fluff about Yvraine/Ynnead trying to help them come back from being stuck on Khaines path.
I think the psychic awakening and the glimpses of Dark Angels might be related. Luther supposedly escaped his imprisonment and I could see Lionel waking up from the psychic shock he has been sleeping in for all these millennia. The Banshees could just be a cover for the second Primarch awakening and more Eldar showing up because the ynnari (however it’s spelled) will try to forge an alliance with this new force. Dark Angels, who don’t hang with anyone because of the Fallen, are approached by the Eldar who know their dark secret and will help keep it from the imperium. Or the Eldar will help hunt down Luther and the Fallen in return for support from the Dark Angels and their revived Primarch. Caul can improve the technology of the Dark Angels, lion helms all around, which will strengthen the imperium. Lionel commands one side of the imperium and RG commands the other.
Theophony wrote: I think the psychic awakening and the glimpses of Dark Angels might be related. Luther supposedly escaped his imprisonment and I could see Lionel waking up from the psychic shock he has been sleeping in for all these millennia. The Banshees could just be a cover for the second Primarch awakening and more Eldar showing up because the ynnari (however it’s spelled) will try to forge an alliance with this new force. Dark Angels, who don’t hang with anyone because of the Fallen, are approached by the Eldar who know their dark secret and will help keep it from the imperium. Or the Eldar will help hunt down Luther and the Fallen in return for support from the Dark Angels and their revived Primarch. Caul can improve the technology of the Dark Angels, lion helms all around, which will strengthen the imperium. Lionel commands one side of the imperium and RG commands the other.
What glimpses of the DAs? Are you talking about the WD article.
I think DAs and Fallen will get their moment with psychic awakening, but it won't be in the Phoenix Rising book.
So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
Unless lore has changed having no mask would mean no Banshee scream. So they probably have a different power than that as a basic ability.
That one still has the thingies where the scream comes from, I think
Albertorius wrote: So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
I actually makes a huge difference. When an Eldar dons his/her mask, it is not just putting on a piece of armor. It it the metaphysical transformation from “citizen” to “warrior”. They change the way they think, they act, they feel. This lets them fight without getting lost in the sensations of battle. And when they take that mask off, they are able to return to the world of peace, without some epic levels of PTSD. Remember, the eldar are a very psychically sensitive race. The battlefield is not risky just for the chance of getting shot/stabbed. The risk of getting caught up in the frenzy and going mad is very real. The Aspect system of the craftworlds is one path to help survive that. And the core part of that is the donning and removal of the “War Mask”, but real and mentally.
But when an exarch gets so far down the rabbit hole, the mask loses its significance, as he can no longer return to being a citizen, and from that moment on his face is his mask (I mean, the idea of an exarch is literally that one: that he can no longer return and that from then on is an embodiment of the path). That was the same way with autarchs, and part of the fact why we've already seen unmasked ones IIRC.
I could see it for a regular aspect warrior. Just not for an exarch.
EDIT: ... and the Dire Avengers sprue has an unmasked head already.
When an exarchs goes down the rabbit hole, they CAN'T take off their masks.
2nd edition Eldar Codex is and will always be a treasure trove of fantastic lore. It reads as a love letter to the Eldar race. Far better than the crap they have now... Old Lore and game with today's models. That is where the sweet spot is.
Albertorius wrote: So... what makes the unmasked exarch "ynnari"? I mean, as far as I know, an exarch is an eldar who has lost himself into the path... having a mask on or off hardly makes any difference...
I actually makes a huge difference. When an Eldar dons his/her mask, it is not just putting on a piece of armor. It it the metaphysical transformation from “citizen” to “warrior”. They change the way they think, they act, they feel. This lets them fight without getting lost in the sensations of battle. And when they take that mask off, they are able to return to the world of peace, without some epic levels of PTSD. Remember, the eldar are a very psychically sensitive race. The battlefield is not risky just for the chance of getting shot/stabbed. The risk of getting caught up in the frenzy and going mad is very real. The Aspect system of the craftworlds is one path to help survive that. And the core part of that is the donning and removal of the “War Mask”, but real and mentally.
But when an exarch gets so far down the rabbit hole, the mask loses its significance, as he can no longer return to being a citizen, and from that moment on his face is his mask (I mean, the idea of an exarch is literally that one: that he can no longer return and that from then on is an embodiment of the path). That was the same way with autarchs, and part of the fact why we've already seen unmasked ones IIRC.
I could see it for a regular aspect warrior. Just not for an exarch.
I think autarchs never reach the exarch level, they just have walked multiple paths as warriors. Could be wrong.
That is a fair point about the exarchs and their masks. Once they are that far gone down the path they are the mask, and can never take it off spiritually. They can take is off to let their hair fly free though. I suspect that at that point most exarchs are going to be so emeshed in the rituals of war that they keep going through the motions and putting their helmets on. If for nothing else to show the members of their shrine what they should be doing, even if they themselves are lost.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the lore here.
There is some lore that Autarchs were Exarchs of multiple paths previously. Which conflicts a *lot* of fluff. Other lore says they were *members* of multiple paths - which makes a lot more sense. Hence why they can take most Aspect weapons but very few Exarch weapons.
As for "always putting their helmet on", I'm sure most Exarchs always do, as a matter of practice. Taking a random blow to the face is likely to take an unhelmetted Exarch out of action until it merges with another Eldar.
stonehorse wrote: Sadly GW have been retconning all their background. So now Exarchs can take off their helmets... which for us old timers, is very odd to accept.
I've only been playing Eldar since 4th. Was there actually a time when the lore said they could not remove their actual HELMETS? I was always under the impression that they could not remove their WAR MASK, which was not truly a physical thing, but rather a psychological barrier that Aspects use to "protect" their souls from the horrors of war. When a battle is over, they take this "mask" off in their minds so they can eventually rejoin normal CW society. The War mask is just a way to compartmentalize the bloodlust of Khaine in their mind.
But Exarchs are no longer able to remove this mask and thus are always "at war". But they can still remove their helmet. Ya know...to eat and stuff.
stonehorse wrote: Sadly GW have been retconning all their background. So now Exarchs can take off their helmets... which for us old timers, is very odd to accept.
...I don't think it was that way back in 2nd edition. IIRC back then the only ones for which the armor was impossible to un-don were the phoenix lords.
EDIT: Nope, in 2nd it was not the armor, just the spirit stone:
There is some lore that Autarchs were Exarchs of multiple paths previously. Which conflicts a *lot* of fluff. Other lore says they were *members* of multiple paths - which makes a lot more sense. Hence why they can take most Aspect weapons but very few Exarch weapons.
As for "always putting their helmet on", I'm sure most Exarchs always do, as a matter of practice. Taking a random blow to the face is likely to take an unhelmetted Exarch out of action until it merges with another Eldar.
I have a real problem with the concept of an autarch as it is currently described. They basically make exarchs look like crap and therefore make a mockery of the sacrifice of becoming trapped on the path.
Why become trapped when you can just NOT and get better at fighting than the guys who are literally walking demons of khaine...
Somehow we get this weird progression now where it goes exarch<autarch><exarch (Phoenix lords). It's just dumb. People seem to forget that an exarch is a warrior equivalent of a farseer - they are both trapped on their paths and become absolute monsters in power and ability.
Jervis had a much better take on autarchs in EPIC Armageddon. At least then they would have made sense.
As they currently stand, they're no different to the guardians they lead. All of them have traveled the path of the warrior.
I would redesign autarchs into one of two types:
1: uber exarchs so you choose your weapons and exarch powers
2: tactical commander of guardians. Less fighty stats and more strategic abilities like they currently have and like guard orders, but only for guardian units. Aspects only do what exarchs tell them to..
Alternative idea - is it possible that the Exarchs of Eldar Aspects that 'defect' to Ynnari are appointed/created in a different manner to those of 'normal' Eldar?
stonehorse wrote: Sadly GW have been retconning all their background. So now Exarchs can take off their helmets... which for us old timers, is very odd to accept.
...I don't think it was that way back in 2nd edition. IIRC back then the only ones for which the armor was impossible to un-don were the phoenix lords.
Read the screen cap I posted above from the 2nd Ed codex...
stonehorse wrote: Sadly GW have been retconning all their background. So now Exarchs can take off their helmets... which for us old timers, is very odd to accept.
Wasn't that always the case? I could have sworn seeing helmetless exarchs back in 4th.
stonehorse wrote: 2nd edition Eldar Codex is and will always be a treasure trove of fantastic lore. It reads as a love letter to the Eldar race. Far better than the crap they have now... Old Lore and game with today's models. That is where the sweet spot is.
Also original 1st codex had only 4 primary Craftworlds. It explained to me why it always felt like Alaitoc sorta sticks out as every other one seems to group up all major Eldar units under their wing (Ulthwe is about psykers and guardians, Biel Tan - aspects, Iyanden - wraiths, and Saim-Hann - bikes and tanks).
Although it also states that Eldar first lived on trees so there's good and bad thing to everything huh.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: Alternative idea - is it possible that the Exarchs of Eldar Aspects that 'defect' to Ynnari are appointed/created in a different manner to those of 'normal' Eldar?
That'd be a big retcon.
Random Exarch's political opinion: "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we support Ynnead?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we exile Eldrad?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Would you like fries with that?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Go kill them": "Our cries herald great pain for our enemies!".
Exarchs only care about their Aspect. They're completely lost.
If a Shrine belongs to Ynnari, I'm sure the Exarch will serve Ynnari. If it belongs to CWE, I'm sure the Exarch will serve CWE. I don't see an Exarch ever defecting (in any direction).
Also, bear in mind that each Exarch is perfecting it's *Shrine*'s combat style. Each shrine is different. You won't see shrines diverge as much as the original Exarchs (Phoenix Lords), but two shrines of the same "Aspect" are not identical in fighting style. Ynnari vs CWE might influence the fighting style some.
The Ynnari exarch looks awesome!
It should be exeedingly simple to convert her to do flying dropkicks.
Interrested to see the even more variations of the kit they promised in the article.
stonehorse wrote: 2nd edition Eldar Codex is and will always be a treasure trove of fantastic lore. It reads as a love letter to the Eldar race. Far better than the crap they have now... Old Lore and game with today's models. That is where the sweet spot is.
Also original 1st codex had only 4 primary Craftworlds. It explained to me why it always felt like Alaitoc sorta sticks out as every other one seems to group up all major Eldar units under their wing (Ulthwe is about psykers and guardians, Biel Tan - aspects, Iyanden - wraiths, and Saim-Hann - bikes and tanks).
Although it also states that Eldar first lived on trees so there's good and bad thing to everything huh.
Alaitoc was first named and given detail in the Epic supplement Renegades. Alaitoc colors and symbols do appear in the 2nd edition Codex pictures though there is no write up blurb about it, because they basically copy-pasted the original 4 Craftworlds and didn't add in Alaitoc.
There is some lore that Autarchs were Exarchs of multiple paths previously. Which conflicts a *lot* of fluff. Other lore says they were *members* of multiple paths - which makes a lot more sense. Hence why they can take most Aspect weapons but very few Exarch weapons.
As for "always putting their helmet on", I'm sure most Exarchs always do, as a matter of practice. Taking a random blow to the face is likely to take an unhelmetted Exarch out of action until it merges with another Eldar.
I have a real problem with the concept of an autarch as it is currently described. They basically make exarchs look like crap and therefore make a mockery of the sacrifice of becoming trapped on the path.
Why become trapped when you can just NOT and get better at fighting than the guys who are literally walking demons of khaine...
Somehow we get this weird progression now where it goes exarch<autarch><exarch (Phoenix lords). It's just dumb. People seem to forget that an exarch is a warrior equivalent of a farseer - they are both trapped on their paths and become absolute monsters in power and ability.
Jervis had a much better take on autarchs in EPIC Armageddon. At least then they would have made sense.
As they currently stand, they're no different to the guardians they lead. All of them have traveled the path of the warrior.
I would redesign autarchs into one of two types:
1: uber exarchs so you choose your weapons and exarch powers
2: tactical commander of guardians. Less fighty stats and more strategic abilities like they currently have and like guard orders, but only for guardian units. Aspects only do what exarchs tell them to..
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I, too, wish Autarchs were the *leaders*, and Exarchs were the *beatsticks*. I chalk the current rules up to the HeroHammer philosophy. Consider the Primaris Pskyer or a Commisar. A basic human. The Commisar, at least, is well-trained. But by fluff, either would get massacred by a Banshee (or Tac Marine). On the tabletop, though, solo models are given "plot armor" stats - to the point that either will beat Banshees or Tac Marines man-for-man.
HQ models are considered "heros", and so are given stats to show off in combat. Even moreso for "primary" HQs - the Farseer has better combat stats than a Warlock, despite the Warlock being the one using Aspect training.
What you're seeing on the table and stats is that effect. In fluff, the Autarch should have a lower to-hit and fewer attacks than an Exarch. An old Exarch should be an absolute beatstick, on Chapter Master levels. But because they're "Squad Sergents", they just get +1W and a special ability (worse, they don't even pay for them!). GW is moving away from "Awesome guy in squad" across the board.
This is why I'm glad most Exarch weapons are unavalable to the Autarch. At least that's still fluffy.
stonehorse wrote: Sadly GW have been retconning all their background. So now Exarchs can take off their helmets... which for us old timers, is very odd to accept.
...I don't think it was that way back in 2nd edition. IIRC back then the only ones for which the armor was impossible to un-don were the phoenix lords.
Read the screen cap I posted above from the 2nd Ed codex...
The one I posted is from the 2nd edition Codex, too... I'm thinking there's some kind of disconnect there. I did not remember that part, but I remembered the other.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: Alternative idea - is it possible that the Exarchs of Eldar Aspects that 'defect' to Ynnari are appointed/created in a different manner to those of 'normal' Eldar?
That'd be a big retcon.
Random Exarch's political opinion: "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we support Ynnead?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we exile Eldrad?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Would you like fries with that?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Go kill them": "Our cries herald great pain for our enemies!".
Exarchs only care about their Aspect. They're completely lost.
If a Shrine belongs to Ynnari, I'm sure the Exarch will serve Ynnari. If it belongs to CWE, I'm sure the Exarch will serve CWE. I don't see an Exarch ever defecting (in any direction).
Also, bear in mind that each Exarch is perfecting it's *Shrine*'s combat style. Each shrine is different. You won't see shrines diverge as much as the original Exarchs (Phoenix Lords), but two shrines of the same "Aspect" are not identical in fighting style. Ynnari vs CWE might influence the fighting style some.
Perhaps I phrased it badly because I think you've misunderstood what I meant.
Imagine Aspect Warriors *without* an Exarch that defect to Ynnari.
What I was getting at is that perhaps there is a different process by which a Ynnari Aspect Warrior becomes an Exarch.
Five pages and no one commented Ynnari exarch has what looks awfully close to dark eldar kabal rune on him?
Anyway, the discussion about helmet 'retcons' is kinda wrong from the start because for decades now every aspect warrior concept art shown exarchs helmetless. So, unless Jes has access to time machine that had already been the case for what, 5 editions now?
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: Alternative idea - is it possible that the Exarchs of Eldar Aspects that 'defect' to Ynnari are appointed/created in a different manner to those of 'normal' Eldar?
That'd be a big retcon.
Random Exarch's political opinion: "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we support Ynnead?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we exile Eldrad?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Would you like fries with that?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Go kill them": "Our cries herald great pain for our enemies!".
Exarchs only care about their Aspect. They're completely lost.
If a Shrine belongs to Ynnari, I'm sure the Exarch will serve Ynnari. If it belongs to CWE, I'm sure the Exarch will serve CWE. I don't see an Exarch ever defecting (in any direction).
Also, bear in mind that each Exarch is perfecting it's *Shrine*'s combat style. Each shrine is different. You won't see shrines diverge as much as the original Exarchs (Phoenix Lords), but two shrines of the same "Aspect" are not identical in fighting style. Ynnari vs CWE might influence the fighting style some.
Perhaps I phrased it badly because I think you've misunderstood what I meant.
Imagine Aspect Warriors *without* an Exarch that defect to Ynnari.
What I was getting at is that perhaps there is a different process by which a Ynnari Aspect Warrior becomes an Exarch.
It doesn't really make sense however you slice it because aspect warriors are aspects of khaine.
Ynnead might have aspects, but they shouldn't be identical equivalents to khaines aspects. He IS the god of war and murder, so warfare is kinda his thing.
They really need to change the concept so that they are not literally worshippers of khaine deciding to worship a different god with the rituals of their original one (ie warfare)....
Long shot here, what if the helmetless exarch it's part of the whole unit identity as Ynnari similarly how GW depicts the Daughters of Khaine 2 different units in boxes (Melusai,Khymerai)
So the whole Ynnari version of the unit is all running alof without helmets showing their lack of adherence to the path and the use of their *Warmask*
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: Alternative idea - is it possible that the Exarchs of Eldar Aspects that 'defect' to Ynnari are appointed/created in a different manner to those of 'normal' Eldar?
That'd be a big retcon.
Random Exarch's political opinion: "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we support Ynnead?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Should we exile Eldrad?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Would you like fries with that?": "I'm ready for war".
Exarch's answer for "Go kill them": "Our cries herald great pain for our enemies!".
Exarchs only care about their Aspect. They're completely lost.
If a Shrine belongs to Ynnari, I'm sure the Exarch will serve Ynnari. If it belongs to CWE, I'm sure the Exarch will serve CWE. I don't see an Exarch ever defecting (in any direction).
Also, bear in mind that each Exarch is perfecting it's *Shrine*'s combat style. Each shrine is different. You won't see shrines diverge as much as the original Exarchs (Phoenix Lords), but two shrines of the same "Aspect" are not identical in fighting style. Ynnari vs CWE might influence the fighting style some.
Perhaps I phrased it badly because I think you've misunderstood what I meant.
Imagine Aspect Warriors *without* an Exarch that defect to Ynnari.
What I was getting at is that perhaps there is a different process by which a Ynnari Aspect Warrior becomes an Exarch.
It's probably more likely that followers of Ynnari no longer follow the path and instead fully embrace Khaine. It just so happens they were Banshees and adopt that fighting method. I suspect a Ynnari Banshee Exarch at that point is more akin to a lieutenant as opposed to an actual exarch. Unless there was some story I missed where Ynnari followers found a way to remove the mask?
It would be fun if the whole slavish devotion to the "path" lifestyle is what has been dooming the Eldar since the Fall, and Ynnead allows an Eldar to escape that and become a more fully realized being.
It's not a slavish devotion. The original idea is that Eldar actually balances out war path and normal life, like yin and yan. It's all pretty zen. Retconning this would just undermine the whole idea.
Yeah, the point of the whole path thing is an attempt to stop Eldar from falling into decadence against and murder-partying a new god into existence by imposing a strict system of discipline and values.
Well, that's my view of it, I don't collect Eldar so I don't know the exact details. All I know is its not simple "slavish devotion", and its a response to the Fall.
Remember that the Craftworld Eldar aren't the only ones who practice discipline and self-denial. The Exodites do as well, though in a different fashion (they're more like Space Amish).
I see the Path or Exodite lifestyle as something that balances their experience of life, something that tries to mediate between the extremes of asceticism (using it rather loosely) and hedonism.
Shadenuat wrote: It's not a slavish devotion. The original idea is that Eldar actually balances out war path and normal life, like yin and yan. It's all pretty zen. Retconning this would just undermine the whole idea.
Well, depends who're you asking. I'm sure the dark eldar would agree.
I agree, removing the 'Path' and its aspect warriors and phoenix lords is basically destroying everything that made Eldar, Eldar. Why would followers of Ynnead have specialized groups that focus on only one aspect of Khaine? You'd expect them to be generalists fully embracing all paths and effectively all being Autarchs with a troop or elite statline as opposed to HQ. At that point they're just Space Marines with a worse stat line.
Eldar are specialized because of the path limiting the way each aspect of khaine fights and this is what GW has used to justify why they are more specialized at the unit level and synergize with other units. Ynarri just kind of doesn't make sense yet because GW hasn't done enough to fully flesh them out. Hopefully this civil war kind of shows Craftworld and Drukari pushing against the teachings of Ynnead and the Ynnari are exiled never to return.
Dark Eldar and Craftworld are meant to be opposites of the same coin. They both acknowledge the fall, their role in it, and the thirst that is draining their souls. However Dark Eldar feel it was their gods who were weak and it is their fault and see no reason to change their lifestyle. Craftworld on the other hand feel it is their fault for the death of their gods and adopted the path to ensure they don't fall back into their old ways.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the point of the whole path thing is an attempt to stop Eldar from falling into decadence against and murder-partying a new god into existence by imposing a strict system of discipline and values.
Well, that's my view of it, I don't collect Eldar so I don't know the exact details. All I know is its not simple "slavish devotion", and its a response to the Fall.
As someone who used to collect Eldar I can tell you this is absolutely correct.
They walk their various paths in direct response to the creation of Slaanesh and as a way to stop anything suchlike happening again.
Perhaps Ynarri are moving away from that but I don't think the literal mask they wear makes much difference either way - it's more of an aesthetic choice than a lore one I bet.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the point of the whole path thing is an attempt to stop Eldar from falling into decadence against and murder-partying a new god into existence by imposing a strict system of discipline and values.
Well, that's my view of it, I don't collect Eldar so I don't know the exact details. All I know is its not simple "slavish devotion", and its a response to the Fall.
As someone who used to collect Eldar I can tell you this is absolutely correct.
They walk their various paths in direct response to the creation of Slaanesh and as a way to stop anything suchlike happening again.
Perhaps Ynarri are moving away from that but I don't think the literal mask they wear makes much difference either way - it's more of an aesthetic choice than a lore one I bet.
Which is fine for normal aspect warriors who can still remove their masks. It's very likely once they remove their masks and return to the craftworld proper, they get sucked up into the cult of Ynnead and would never don the mask again. It's entirely different for an Exarch to have that justification though. They never leave the shrine except in times of war and, in theory, shouldn't be exposed to the cult followers of Ynnead. At least that's how I interpret things up to this point.
Hopefully if GW insists on continuing with this storyline for Eldar, they'll flesh it out more to explain what's going on.
Well, if you think about it, if Ynnead is supposed to protect against Slaanesh, then logically the Path of the Exarch or whatever thing would be redundant, which means they can remove their masks. So yeah, an Ynnari Exarch not wearing a mask makes sense. As to how an Exarch would come into contact with Ynnari...Idk, warp shenanigans? Maybe the Ynnari put a huge ad in the webway, and the Exarch noticed it?
Though I could have sworn that maskless Exarchs were a thing beforehand. Maybe I'm thinking of Dawn of War.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, if you think about it, if Ynnead is supposed to protect against Slaanesh, then logically the Path of the Exarch or whatever thing would be redundant, which means they can remove their masks.
Though I could have sworn that maskless Exarchs were a thing beforehand. Maybe I'm thinking of Dawn of War.
For the afternoon crowd:
A helmet and a war mask are two fundamentally different things when it comes to Aspect Warriors.
So I looked it up and apparently War Masks are a mental thing and a physical thing.
I'm confused, why are we saying the Ynnari exarch doesn't have a War Mask then? Because if it's a mental thing, it wouldn't be on the miniature.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I looked it up and apparently War Masks are a mental thing and a physical thing.
I'm confused, why are we saying the Ynnari exarch doesn't have a War Mask then? Because if it's a mental thing, it wouldn't be on the miniature.
A part of being Ynnari is abandoning the Path and all its systems. Those joining the Ynnari abandon their war masks and embrace things. Although as I understand it there's no reason for an Exarch to be Ynnari, they serve Khaine and are dedicated to him and nobody else.
An aspect warrior unit wouldnt remove their armor in the middle of battle. The whole idea of soldiers without their proper uniform and protective equipment on during combat has always been totally absurd (yet people love helmetless marines).
A banshee mask requires the hardware to provide the disorienting shriek but the "helmet" part could be removed I'm sure. They could also simply remove the emitters and keep the helmet on like a smart warrior.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I looked it up and apparently War Masks are a mental thing and a physical thing.
I'm confused, why are we saying the Ynnari exarch doesn't have a War Mask then? Because if it's a mental thing, it wouldn't be on the miniature.
Exactly. Some people seem to have gotten the impression that it IS a physical thing and thus "breaks the lore" if the Exarch can be modeled without it. But since it isn't a physical thing, those people are wrong.
Irbis wrote: Five pages and no one commented Ynnari exarch has what looks awfully close to dark eldar kabal rune on him?
Anyway, the discussion about helmet 'retcons' is kinda wrong from the start because for decades now every aspect warrior concept art shown exarchs helmetless. So, unless Jes has access to time machine that had already been the case for what, 5 editions now?
Because it doesn't? The only rune I can see is the Howling Banshee rune, unless your refering to the mark on it's head which is also in the drawing you posted.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I looked it up and apparently War Masks are a mental thing and a physical thing.
I'm confused, why are we saying the Ynnari exarch doesn't have a War Mask then? Because if it's a mental thing, it wouldn't be on the miniature.
That's more or less why I asked what made the maskless exarch something specifically ynnari, yes, because as far as I knew it was more of a mental thing.
The maskless exarch sketches for back in the day kinda reinforce it.
Albertorius wrote: That's more or less why I asked what made the maskless exarch something specifically ynnari, yes, because as far as I knew it was more of a mental thing.
The maskless exarch sketches for back in the day kinda reinforce it.
So far as I can tell, excepting the statement from the article, there is zero about the exposed head build that is Ynnari specific.
Albertorius wrote: That's more or less why I asked what made the maskless exarch something specifically ynnari, yes, because as far as I knew it was more of a mental thing.
The maskless exarch sketches for back in the day kinda reinforce it.
So far as I can tell, excepting the statement from the article, there is zero about the exposed head build that is Ynnari specific.
That's what I think too, tbh. Also, more parts to kitbash stuff, so all good
I think a lot of people here don't really get how pantheons work. Just because you dedicate your service to one god doesn't mean you stop paying tribute to the rest.
Helping the Ynnari achieve their goals doesn't suddenly mean that Kahinites aren't still dedicated to Khaine.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I looked it up and apparently War Masks are a mental thing and a physical thing.
I'm confused, why are we saying the Ynnari exarch doesn't have a War Mask then? Because if it's a mental thing, it wouldn't be on the miniature.
You obviously misspelled Ahra (the father of the scorpions 
)
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