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Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/10 11:24:20


Post by: Stux


Hi all!

So, Ogors got a Battletome recently.

Overall, they don't look like a top tier army still, but they do have a few neat tricks.

To open up the discussion, I'll start by talking about one of the biggest additions - the Mawtribes. Specifically going to start with the Gutbuster ones. Of course you can take any mixture of Gutbuster and Beastclaw in the army now, and many abilities affect all of them, but the tribes are clearly designed to support one side more than the other.

It's also worth noting that if you choose a Mawtribe then you MUST take that tribe's artefact and trait. If you do so, then the ONLY way to get any of the 24 generic Artefacts is by also taking a battalion, and there is no way to get any other trait. At some point it's probably worth having a discussion about when, if ever, it makes sense to not take a tribe to access that host of traits - as the tribe abilities are all quite strong.

Meatfist
Spoiler:
The most generic tribe.
Battle Trait is to roll 1 extra dice for Trampling Charge. This is very meh, it's just a 1/6 chance to do a mortal wound when yo charge.

Tribe command ability is that Gluttons get an extra attack with Gulping Maw. You really have to mass your Gluttons to get much out of that. If you were planning to take 12 or more Gluttons then it may be worth it though!

Artefact rerolls saves of 1 which is alright. Trait is that while the general is in melee you generate an extra CP in your hero phase - if you can keep him alive (and the artefact helps!) that's potentially very good.

Overall I'd say it's an ok if not particularly inspiring tribe.


Underguts
Spoiler:
The shooty tribe.

Allegiance ability is Leadbelchers range is increased from 12 to 18. That's very good especially considering they go from d3 to d6 shots if they don't move, but of course it does nothing if you aren't bringing Leadbelchers.

Command ability gives Ironblasters near a hero to add 1 to their shooting attack. Obviously this is much better with the cannon ball which is normally just 1 shot than the hail which is d6. It's underwhelming with a single Ironblaster, but if you bring 2 or more it gets very strong.

Artefact is the Gnoblar Blast keg which can be used once per battle to dish out mortal wounds to a nearby unit. You roll 6 dice and do d3 mortal wounds for each 6, so averages 2 mortal wounds. Sounds meh, but it gets better. For every 10 models in the enemy unit, you add 1 to the roll. So at 10 models you'll average 4 wounds, against a huge horde of 50 or more models you'll automatically do 6d3 mortals. That's not too shabby. It's also sometimes going to let the bearer beat an enemy hero that they couldn't quite finish off otherwise.

Trait is Mass of Scars - subtract 1 from wound rolls for shooting attacks against the General. Situational, against some armies it will do nothing. But in the right matchup this will be golden. Consider using on a Frostlord who will be a priority target for any opponent with decent ranged attacks.

Overall I think Underguts have a lot of potential, but only if you're happy playing Ogors primarily as a gunline. If you aren't take a minimum of 6 Leadbelchers and 2 Ironblasters I wouldn't even bother.


Bloodgullet
Spoiler:
This is an odd one, the Butcher tribe. If you aren't taking Butchers you won't get any benefit here. You really want two... Maybe even 3 Butchers?

Battle Trait is Butchers know and can cast 1 extra spell. This turns Butchers into formidable wizards!

Command ability lets you re-roll wound rolls for Gluttons who are near a chosen Butcher. Reinforces the Butcher theme, and now also demands you bring a lot of Gluttons. If you do that though, this is a great ability - better than the Meatfist one in my opinion.

Command trait let's nearby units pile in an extra 3". I'm lukewarm on this. There are times it will be great and times it will not really help at all.

Artefact allows you to pick a melee weapon - if you do any wounds with that weapon and they are not negated then roll a d3 for every friendly unit nearby and they heal that many wounds. Wow, that's pretty nice.

Overall this looks like a really decent tribe. If you want to bring a lot of Gluttons, and play a more traditional Igor army, this looks like it does a lot more for you than Meatfist. I'd really like to try this tribe with 3 Butchers sometime too, casting 6 spells a turn!


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/17 13:33:57


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Do you recon that there is any point in glutons since underguts leadbelchers have a higher damage output in general and are way more flexible?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/17 13:44:39


Post by: Jackal90


The forced artefacts and traits etc are the new norm for sub factions it seems.
Any army that has its own faction options now seems to have this as a new standard.
While it is limiting, the benefits often outweigh the loss of these.

I do feel like battalions are over costed though.
Most new books have average at best battalions that give very little for what you get.
On the flip side, unique hero’s can technically ignore this anyway as they can’t be altered.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/17 13:46:25


Post by: Stux


Alkaline_Hound wrote:
Do you recon that there is any point in glutons since underguts leadbelchers have a higher damage output in general and are way more flexible?


That's a very good question. In Underguts, if you have a Tyrant as General, then I would say Gluttons don't have much of a place.

If you run a Frostlord on Stonehorn or similar though, you may want to give them mass of scars and then you need Gluttons (or Mournfangs) for battleline. But at the point you're spending that many points on stuff that isn't Leadbelchers or Ironblasters is there any point running Underguts anyway?

Side note: don't you think it's weird that getting pistol whipped by a cannon is -1 rend, but those big scimitars that Gluttons carry have no rend..? I feel like if you swapped that around both units would make a bit more sense.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/17 13:56:30


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Nah, blunt weapons tend to be really good against armor so it makes sense that leadbelchers have a better rend.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/17 14:28:42


Post by: Stux


Alkaline_Hound wrote:
Nah, blunt weapons tend to be really good against armor so it makes sense that leadbelchers have a better rend.


Yeah thinking about it slashing weapons like scimitars are about the worst against heavy armour. I'm thinking of piercing weapons.

Still, from a balance perspective Leadbelchers should be more or a tradeoff than they currently are.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/17 23:45:04


Post by: NinthMusketeer


It's better not to think in detail about exact weapon profiles; they rarely make any sort of sense.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/18 14:14:45


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Having thought about gluttons they do have two advantages over leadbelchers, one in squads of 12 they are massively cheaper per ogre, and two they have the banners which give them some useful gimmicks. Then while I think leadbelchers are still the better generalist choise, I wonder if running 12 gluttons with iron fists will work well as a sort of tarpit that punches back, since on average each ogre will deal three mortal wounds before dying, and they can be buffed further with a slaughtermaster.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/18 15:53:45


Post by: Stux


I'm not sure where you're getting 3 mortal wounds per Ogor on average...

Against no rend, itll take 6 saves to kill the Ogor on average so if you fail 4 saves on average you will pass 2, of which 1 on average will cause a mortal wound.

Against rend of -1, it'll take 4.8 saves to kill the Ogor on average so if you fail 4 saves on average you will pass 0.8, which will be a 6 so 0.8 mortal wounds.

Against rend of -2 or better, the Ogor will die in 4 saves (of course), those 4 failed saves will include 0.67 6s, so 0.67 mortal wounds total.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/18 20:32:01


Post by: mokoshkana


Alkaline_Hound wrote:
Do you recon that there is any point in glutons since underguts leadbelchers have a higher damage output in general and are way more flexible?
Huh? Where are you getting this from? Unbuffed, they do about the same damage in general. As for leadbelchers having better versatility, I'd say that is subjective. Leadbelchers have shooting and better MSU opportunities, but Gluttons can reroll charges natively and/or ignore shooting damage on 6+ in addition to being 80 points cheaper for a max unit and either having melee attacks that explode on 6's or dealing mortal wounds back on saves of 6.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/18 22:10:42


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Point-for-point one leadbelcher is a better buy than one glutton, though not by much. However, gluttons have a horde unit discount, are generic battleline, and have music/banner bonuses at 6+ unit size. The latter in particular is what drives up the cost of the unit above what it's basic stats alone would indicate.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/19 12:32:46


Post by: nels1031


To piggyback off this thread, a question or two:

Ironguts. Outside of the Tyrant bodyguard battalion, is there a point in going heavy with them? I was planning on doing a small model count army of the more elite Gutbuster units, but Gluttons seem to be such a better bang for your buck, so that plan is kind of in limbo now and I may as well just do a more standard Mawtribe army, centered around the seemingly useful Tyrant/Irongut battalion(of which you only need 1 unit of Irongut.) Ironguts look like more consistent damage, but Gluttons have more synergies with other units, so at best its a wash, which means its probably best to stick with Gluttons. Is that an accurate assessment?

Do you think that the Tyrants Gutguard battalion is worth it? Seems useful to me as it can make your Tyrant more durable.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/19 12:55:39


Post by: Stux


Agree with your assessment - Ironguts don't really bring enough benefit to justify inclusion, outside of Battalion requirements. Especially if you're running Bloodgullet or Meatfist who directly improve Gluttons. And then there's no point running Underguts either unless you're going fairly hard on Leadbelchers.

As for Battalions, I'm not convinced Tyrant's Gutguard is that great. For me, the only Gutbusters Battalion worth taking in its own merits is Butcher's Band. Put most of your army in it, and get some nice steady healing across the battle.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/19 17:27:14


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Generally speaking the gutguard battalion isn't worth it unless you are running a very niche build--for 40 more points you could just bring another tyrant.

Ironguts are absolutely worth it. They are 55 points each as opposed to a glutton at 40. For that they get a 4+ save and a much, much better weapon profile. For starters it's 2" range, meaning they can swing in two ranks, a considerable advantage. Then they have rend and a damage characteristic of 3.

A unit of four gluttons deals ~8 damage on average against a 5+ save. A unit of four ironguts deals ~14 and only needs half the frontage. If it weren't for model count being needed for objectives ironguts would replace gluttons entirely.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/19 18:00:42


Post by: Stux


I know the better save helps, but I really worry about Ironguts cost per wound. If you're running a minimum unit or not much more you'll probably get away with it, but if you're basing your whole army around them I'd be really concerned about how many wounds you're bringing.

Could always counterbalance that somewhat by taking a blob of Gnoblars too of course.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/19 18:11:42


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Having used them extensively, I would say the key is MSU. A 4-man unit is already enough offense to beat the snot out of most things, and by having multiple units it allows damage to be spread out (and can be subsequently healed with the multiple aoe heal options ogors now have). Having, say, four units of four as the main line is 64 wounds on a 4+ save for 880 points, and each of those units is a massive offensive threat with high mobility because you can position them in a 2x2 square. Larger enemy units will have difficulty just getting models in range to attack.

The problem is you won't capture objectives that way. Thus, gluttons.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/21 15:57:00


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


I got the three mortal wounds per ogre result by doing calculations while sleepy. Anyways 12 fatties who can heal surprisingly fast and inflict mortal wounds on anyone getting close sounds by no means pleasant, so I'd imagine that this sort of anvil will become mainstay in ogre armies.

I'll also take the discussion about gnoblars into this thread since if there will be any future big beautiful man enthusiasts in the future they will look here. What are some nice synergies that you think gnoblars have? I think running 60 as a screen in front of ironguts is probably a good idea, as they complement each other well.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/21 17:23:27


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Gnoblars are a pretty standard chaff unit. Hit em with the command ability from a tyrant and they're good to go.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/25 15:26:48


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


What do you think of icebrow hunters and sabertooths btw? They are decently cheap and let you deepstrike charge reliably anywhere.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/25 20:36:51


Post by: NinthMusketeer


You said it. Being able to deep strike then charge with +3 to the roll is fantastic, even if the unit doing so isn't. I wouldn't bring sabertooths without a hunter though, both for the outflank and the bravery boost.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/25 20:42:26


Post by: tedbpb


I think sabretooths are going to be good charge blockers like they were in fantasy. Beyond that I dont feel that a hunter or sabertooth are a scary enough deep strike unit.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/25 20:52:20


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Forcing a nasty shooter to target a 40-point unit because it's the only thing in melee seems pretty useful to me. Or eating a support character. Or grabbing an unguarded objective.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/29 01:04:13


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Paying for the hunter for 40 points surprise doesn't seem very efficient. However I'd imagine that our plus sized huntsman can remain behind and threaten enemy objectives and remain a nuisance to the opponent.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/29 03:17:30


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Indeed. His main damage is from shooting anyways, which he can do some of when he shows up.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/30 01:50:23


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


The issue is though that he is quite squishy for his points, so the moment the enemy shooting unit gets rid of the tigers if our huntsman is in range he is toast. Maybe it would be better to bring in a larger tiger pack or have him wait outside of los and then on turn three "magnet" other sabertooth units in since the ability does have a tremendous range.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/30 03:18:58


Post by: NinthMusketeer


He really doesn't have to be all that effective. He just shows up and says "you have to deal with me" and the enemy must devote resources to do so.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/30 16:34:19


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Wouldn't a gorger do the same thing for much cheaper?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/30 20:36:48


Post by: NinthMusketeer


The hunter has the advantage that he can shoot, can bring sabertusks with the aforementioned +3 to charge, and is a hero which can use the generic command abilities (re-roll charge being particularly relevant). The gorger meanwhile is cheap, expendable, and straightforward. And it pleases me to no end that lists have a place for using one, the other, neither, or even both.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/11/30 20:55:06


Post by: Stux


His shooting is really very good given everything else he brings too. It's not far off an Ironblaster (unless you have the Underguts command ability in play of course).


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/01 02:04:32


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Bruh I might be reading a different profile but he does like one wound per turn on average. I suppose being able to toss one wound at the enemy backline is nice, but I think there are better places to spend all those points. I'll have to try him and see if my "magnet" tactic works.

Which models are you guys using for your tigers? The offical models look like toys 'r us knock offs.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/01 10:42:33


Post by: Stux


Alkaline_Hound wrote:
Bruh I might be reading a different profile but he does like one wound per turn on average. I suppose being able to toss one wound at the enemy backline is nice, but I think there are better places to spend all those points. I'll have to try him and see if my "magnet" tactic works.

Which models are you guys using for your tigers? The offical models look like toys 'r us knock offs.


It lacks the rend, but the rest of the profile on the spear is almost the same as a cannon ball if you run.

Yeah, the rend is significant. But also Ironblasters aren't as powerful without additional buffs as people might think! It only does 1.4 wounds on average, vs 5+ or worse armour.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/01 11:11:36


Post by: NinthMusketeer


The hunter and ironblaster simply aren't comparable; they do different things. Its apples to oranges. Even with just shooting the ironblaster has far more range with its cannonball vs higher damage output with the scattershot. The hunter has short range but is deploying from reserve potentially near targets that were kept out of range/los from conventional shooting.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/01 11:15:12


Post by: Stux


I absolutely agree they are very different units. My only point was that the Hunter's shooting is really rather good considering both his points and the other things he brings.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/02 02:11:35


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


But which models do you use for the tigers?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/02 08:20:14


Post by: Stux


Alkaline_Hound wrote:
But which models do you use for the tigers?


I don't know if anyone in this thread yet actually runs them. I sometimes play in GW store so I'd have to get the official models, and I don't like those enough, and I don't think they're a necessary unit anyway, so I don't plan to use them.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/02 09:19:46


Post by: Jackal90


Alkaline_Hound wrote:
But which models do you use for the tigers?


Most common alternative I see is the lord of the rings wild wargs.
They are cheap, plastic and only a fraction smaller.

If you go away from GW stuff though then reaper has tons of models to look through.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/02 18:09:35


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I have plenty of 'quadruped predator' models from tabletop RPGs to tap into. But nothing specific.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/05 03:54:55


Post by: tedbpb


Back when charge blocking was a bigger thing I used Fenrisian Wolves from 40K as sabre standins.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/05 18:22:04


Post by: mokoshkana


Jackal90 wrote:
Alkaline_Hound wrote:
But which models do you use for the tigers?


Most common alternative I see is the lord of the rings wild wargs.
They are cheap, plastic and only a fraction smaller.

If you go away from GW stuff though then reaper has tons of models to look through.
Fell wargs are perfect for the jungle themed Ogors I am doing. Thanks for the tip!


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/06 21:26:10


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Now one can, of course, use the ankle biters.

http://titan-forge.com/bloodsail-island/10-anklebiters


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/07 16:09:52


Post by: mokoshkana


strongly considered those, but they appear to be metal, and I loathe metal models.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/15 23:09:18


Post by: Valentine009


 Stux wrote:
Alkaline_Hound wrote:
But which models do you use for the tigers?


I don't know if anyone in this thread yet actually runs them. I sometimes play in GW store so I'd have to get the official models, and I don't like those enough, and I don't think they're a necessary unit anyway, so I don't plan to use them.


I am using Fenrisian wolves.

[img]http://imgur.com/gallery/14GWoQi[img]


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hmm, how do I post an image?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 15:35:54


Post by: Spreelock


Hey guys, i've been planning to start an ogre army, what are your pros and cons about ogres? At first look, they seem to have very good all-around statlines, but their armour save is probably the weakest.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 15:42:31


Post by: Stux


 Spreelock wrote:
Hey guys, i've been planning to start an ogre army, what are your pros and cons about ogres? At first look, they seem to have very good all-around statlines, but their armour save is probably the weakest.


Battle shock is one of the biggest issues, but there are ways to mitigate it. Either running MSU or making use of Bully of the First Degree.

I think they're a pretty good all around army to be honest. Fairly killy, fairly durable, fairly mobile. If theres a weakness, it's simply lacking any broken combos that some other armies can put together. Too balanced would be another way of phrasing that!


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 17:48:44


Post by: NinthMusketeer


"Con" would be that its a well-balanced battletome, so an uphill matchup against B-tier and A-tier will crush you.

Actual cons would be low armor saves only partly mitigated by wounds count, and low rend. Ogors do very well against non-specialized enemies because they deal a lot of damage and can also take a good chunk of damage (an ogor with 3 wounds on him still fights at 100%). But glass-cannon enemies can overwhelm your wounds count and the potency of your offense is wasted on squishy stuff. Meanwhile high-save enemies can outlast you through attrition because your armor isn't good for preventing damage outright.

Model count for objectives may seem like it is a potential issue, but with the allegiance counting monsters as 10 and everyone else as 2 that concern is considerably reduced. Ogors also tend to clear swarms very quickly.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 19:02:36


Post by: Stux


Although they have low rend, I should add they have quite a few sources of mortal wounds. You'll generally do 1 or 2 for every charge you make in the game.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 21:44:14


Post by: NinthMusketeer


They don't have any reliable MW generation though. A couple of MW on the charge is nice but really just puts a dent in things. Like most battletomes Ogors do not have reasonable means to consistently keep dealing MWs round to round.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 22:58:48


Post by: Stux


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They don't have any reliable MW generation though. A couple of MW on the charge is nice but really just puts a dent in things. Like most battletomes Ogors do not have reasonable means to consistently keep dealing MWs round to round.


I've been having a lot of success with Fiery Whirlwind vs Mortex Guard too though.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/21 23:45:53


Post by: NinthMusketeer


That is definitely a good tool to have around. All three firebelly spells are pretty dam good.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/22 00:08:59


Post by: Stux


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
That is definitely a good tool to have around. All three firebelly spells are pretty dam good.


Yes, I'm considering getting a second one to access Billowing Ash at the same time. Possibly with a Balewind Vortex to extend the coverage.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 10:16:15


Post by: Niiai


Hi.

I am considering starting with AoS. I still have some Ogre models from warhammer fantasy that I never asembeled. I think 6 or 12 ogres, and the cannon. 2 riders.

What does a typical Ogre list look like? How many models? I have tryed to read uo on the rules on them and I am having a hard time finding an angle to build them. I have bo baseline to consider how good or bad a unit like the tyrant or basic ogre is. From what I can tell by the rules of AoS they have a large move, then you charge (in the same turn?) and hooefully your ogres eat them before they kill you.

They seem naturally mobile. And the riders seems to hit like nothing I have ever seens. (In fantasy 2 riders in the flank spelt doom fot most units.)

The aim is a 2000 point list.

It is starting these or starting sigmarites.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 11:57:32


Post by: Stux


Generally speaking you'll want to focus on either Gutbuster models or Beastclaw models. You can absolutely mix and match in the same list, but all the tribes favour one or the other.

If you go Gutbusters, your decision will then be shooty focused or melee focused.

I decided to go shooty, and therefore chose Underguts. This is my current 2k list:

Spoiler:
++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ogor Mawtribes) [1,980pts] ++

+ Leader +

Firebelly [120pts]: 0. Gnoblar Blast Keg, 2. Billowing Ash

Tyrant [160pts]: 0. Mass of Scars, 2. Brawlerguts, 3. Gruesome Trophy Rack, General

+ Artillery +

Ironblaster [120pts]

Ironblaster [120pts]

Ironblaster [120pts]

Ironblaster [120pts]

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Butcher's Band [1,220pts]
. Butcher: 3. Ribcracker, Tenderiser
. Ironguts: 4 Ironguts, Bellower, Rune Maw Bearer
. Leadbelchers: 2x 2 Leadbelchers
. Leadbelchers: 2x 2 Leadbelchers
. Leadbelchers: 2x 2 Leadbelchers
. Ogor Gluttons: 2x 3 Ogor Gluttons, Bellower, Paired Clubs or Blades, Tribal Banner Bearer

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Ogor Mawtribes: Underguts Mawtribe

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [1,980pts]


The main trick this list pulls is have the Tyrant accompany the Ironblasters, and use the command ability every turn to give them all an extra shot using the Underguts command ability, and then also give them +1 to hit versus leaders and monsters with the relic. The shooting is really rather brutal! This is also the reason the list really wants a battalion, because you cant take the Trophy Rack without getting a second relic.

Spells can be changed up. I really like Fiery Whirlwind vs armies with lots of models and good saves, but Billowing Ash is extremely good versus other shooty armies (it works in melee too, but at range is where you'll most need protecting). For the Butcher, I really want to give Blubbergrub Stench a go what with having 4 Ironblasters, but i haven't run it yet. Huge potential, but its risky taking a spell that will only do anything on specific friendly units, especially when Ribcracker is just always very good.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 12:02:54


Post by: Niiai


So you have :

4 leader models
12 ogre troop models
4 Artilery pieces.

Do Gluttons have more models in their builds? I think 20 models sounded a bit small for 2000 points. Although the ease to paint sounds nice.

Your army seems very focused on one thing. I think as a new player I should focus on something more generic. (Big squads + spell buggs perhaps?)

How does battalions work in AoS? And how do command points work? I know them from 40K. Can you use them on stragaems and/or buying more magic items here as well?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 12:27:47


Post by: Stux


Its 29 models, I think you're missing the 6 gluttons, or some of the 12 Leadbelchers, and the Ironguts are a unit of 4, not a leader.

Being focused on one thing is sort of what makes a list strong in this game to be honest! But focusing on Gluttons is absolutely valid. Look up Meatfist or Bloodgullet tribes (there's a short write up on both in the very first post in this thread).

Battalion in AoS are a completely different thing to 40k, forget 40k hah. In Age of Sigmar, Battalions are specific collections of units that the army has access to. You pay points for the Battalion itself, and have to take the specified units in it. In exchange, you get a few benefits: you get an extra cp at the start of the game, you get an extra free relic, you deploy all models in the Battalion as one drop (making it more likely to go first) and the Battalion gets access to some special ability.

Mentioning CP, note that in Sigmar CP are much more restricted than 40k, but you'll have less things to spend them on so it works out ok usually! There's no command reroll for instance, it just isnt a thing. You just get 1 cp each turn (you can save them up over turns if you want), and that's often it. Battalions give you an extra 1, and you can also purchase extra CP for 50 points each (which is usually not worth it, but it's nice to have the option!).

So the Battalion I took is called Butcher's Band. It costs 140pts (on top of the models in it), and must contain a Butcher, a unit of Ironguts, 1 to 3 units of Leadbelchers, and 1 to 3 units of Gluttons. I get the extra CP and relic (allowing me to take the Trophy Rack on my Tyrant - the extra relic doesnt have to be used on a model in the Battalion), and the Battalion ability for this specific Battalion is this:

At the start of your hero phase, you can heal 1 wound allocated to each friendly unit from this battalion that is wholly within 12" of the BUTCHER from this battalion.


Which is fairly decent. Ogors have a bunch of other Battalion, but I think this is pretty much the best they have (certainly for Gutbusters, I'm less familiar with Beastclaws). It would also work well with a Glutton focused list, so consider using it!


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 15:15:55


Post by: Alkaline_Hound


Ogres is one of the armies which really rewards converting, so if you're good with greenstuff 1k points is equivalent to three boxes of gluttons converted to various units.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 15:50:57


Post by: Niiai


I used to love converting. But later on I wanne save time. The best way to convert is to take parts from other things and glue them on with as little greenstuff as possible.

I have an old tyrant model I tryed to convert up. I can fibish that.

Likevice I can proxy the butchers. Just add an apron. Some cooking/butcher implements

I am a bit unsure how to convert the big pot butcher, or firebelly.

The elites (been there done that) can be made with tyranid parts. They just have some chaos mutations.

I REALLY do not want to paint globlars. I do not want to have them on the list. I understand screening and tarpitting can be good. (Is there some way to kongaline them and have 2" reach weapons attack from behind.)


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 15:59:35


Post by: Stux


Agreed on Gnoblars. I think they are somewhat decent. Not the best horse by a long way (though being able to make them immune to battle shock is pretty rad), but this is an edition that really incentivised hordes, so they should do a lot of work for their cost. But I did not get into Ogors to paint 60 goblins! And I think the army can do just fine without them.

I'm not really sold on the Slaughtermaster compared to a normal Butcher so I wouldn't worry too much there.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 16:42:50


Post by: Niiai


I could imagine 2 units of 12 ogres as my core. Preferably buffing them with some mages. I looked over the spells, and they seemed descent enough.

Being fast and having redundancy means I do not colapse once onenof them falls.

Shooting seems like a specialised type of list. Trying to dictate when and where I attack seems better.

Then Ibprobably would need some fast moving units so I do not get outmanovered. The beast riders seema good at being where I need to be and hit glass cannon backline units. Also suporting the ogre units.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 16:51:02


Post by: Stux


I'd actually call the shooty list the more generalist, as Leadbelchers and Ironblasters are both actually alright in melee too! Ironblasters are also really fast.

But anyway, bare in mind that for 2k points you need to bring 3 battleline units (sort of Sigmar equivalent of Troops - no bonus on holding objectives, but you need a minimum of them). Your 2 Ogor Glutton units gives you 2, so you need another. Your battleline options depend on your general though. If you take a Tyrant, then Leadbelchers and Ironguts become battleine. If you take a Frostlord then you can have Mournfangs as battleline, etc.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 17:30:55


Post by: Niiai


Yeah, fufulling the bare minimum I am not as worried about. But I need some minimum to unlock more bonuses?

Does having more battalions give me more CP or something?

What I like about the ogres is that the battleline units seems to be a good meats and potatoes unit, as opposed to a tax you need to pay.

Ledbelchers seems a bit bad? You pay exstra for the shooting? But once you are looked in combat you cab not shoot any more. Ogre wants to get the charge for the possabilaty for mortal wounds? You do not want the eneny to come to you.

That being said having versatilaty and options wheb you play. Adopting to what your opponent is doing. But is the ogre way? I thought they where a bit exspensive for the option. (Although the 18" range might help.)


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/25 17:41:02


Post by: Stux


First off, Leadbelchers are the same price as Gluttons. 80pts for 2, vs 120pts for 3. You aren't paying extra for shooting, you are sacrificing a small amount of melee ability for it (though you gain rend -1).

Second, you can still shoot while in melee in Sigmar, but you have to shoot at the unit you are in melee with. But you dont lose shooting for being engaged.

The big thing Gluttons have is if you are Meatfist or Bloodgullet then they have Allegiance abilities that specifically buff Gluttons in some way, and these abilities dont improve Leadbelchers.

It generally wont be viable to take 2 Battalions in the same army. There's no rule preventing it, but the costs and requirements are just a bit prohibitive. Some armies it's easier, but I really dont see a use case for it in Ogors.

You would get 1 extra CP for each Battalion (and 1 extra relic for each one), but work out what you actually need that CP for. CP uses for Ogors are quite limited. And remember if you really want another cp you always have the option of just buying it instead of taking another Battalion.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/26 09:01:22


Post by: Amishprn86


 Niiai wrote:


Ledbelchers seems a bit bad? You pay exstra for the shooting? But once you are looked in combat you cab not shoot any more. Ogre wants to get the charge for the possabilaty for mortal wounds? You do not want the eneny to come to you.
(Although the 18" range might help.)


Well in AoS thats not how it works, you can shoot while in combat (as long as its at the same unit you are in combat with) and you are not paying extra at all, its 2 vs 3, if you take 3 then its the same price. Leadbelchers IMO are one of the better units in the book.

You can easing move>shoot>move>shoot>melee>shoot>melee>repeat and have 0 problems.

AoS has a lot more tricks in the movement/shooting phase than 40k does, its going to take a few games to get use to it


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/26 11:23:37


Post by: Niiai


Well that changes a bit then. So you are trading 1 attack and the hit twice on 6 for rend 1 and the abilaty to shoot. That does not seem so bad.

They are exspensive to collect though... :-(

How do regular ogors have the edge? The one batallion lets everyone have an exstra attack for one turn? That seems good. (An exstra attack for all weapons, including the bite?)

I really enjoy the charge into mortal wound rule. Regulat ogors can re-toll the charge, so that is something. Units of 8+ and big monsters can really put on wounds with a charge of 7, that is 3 mortal wounds.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/26 11:49:13


Post by: Stux


Regular Ogors have the edge if you are Meatfist or Bloodgullet and use their allegiance abilities. Bloodgullet one is much better (reroll Glutton wound rolls while in range of a Butcher), but overall the allegiance is only going to be worth it if you run two Butchers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know what Battalion you are referring to. Do you instead mean the Meatfist Allegiance command ability for an extra gulping bite? It's ok, but nowhere near as strong as the Bloodgullet command ability - but that needs a Butcher nearby so there is some tradeoff.

Remember these are both command abilities, so require CP to use. If you're running a big unit of Gluttons it will also usually be worth it to spend a cp at the start of the battle on Bully of the First Degree (Tyrants always have this ability). What it does is deals d3 mortal wounds to a friendly unit, but that unit is immune to battle shock for the whole game - and on bravery 6 outside of melee Ogors are really vulnerable to battle shock when in larger units.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/26 23:44:31


Post by: Niiai


If I do bloodgullet or meatfists can I put the armour or the giant cleaver, the artefacts, on a hero on one of the big beasts?

I supose the army would need 4 heroes.

1 ogre tyrant general
1 big monster that can hold the artefact
2 butchers for buffing
2 groups of ogors to buff
1 more battleline

Some mobile cats to catch objective holders and try to get countercharges. Would something like that work?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/27 08:32:15


Post by: Stux


Yes, you can give the relic to a Frostlord or Huskard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this for 2k:

Spoiler:


++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ogor Mawtribes) [1,980pts] ++

+ Leader +

Butcher [140pts]: 3. Ribcracker, Tenderiser

Butcher [140pts]: 2. Blood Feast, Tenderiser

Frostlord on Stonehorn [400pts]: 0. Splatter-cleaver, 1. Black Clatterhorn

Tyrant [160pts]: 0. Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!, 2. Brawlerguts, General

+ Battleline +

Ironguts [220pts]: 4 Ironguts, Bellower, Rune Maw Bearer

Ogor Gluttons [400pts]: 4x 3 Ogor Gluttons, Beast Skull Bearer, Bellower, Paired Clubs or Blades

Ogor Gluttons [400pts]: 4x 3 Ogor Gluttons, Beast Skull Bearer, Bellower, Paired Clubs or Blades

+ Other +

Frost Sabres [120pts]: 3x 2 Frost Sabres

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Ogor Mawtribes: Bloodgullet Mawtribe

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [1,980pts] ++


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 00:44:50


Post by: Niiai


Yeah thank you.

I bought the armybook today. I will look at it.

I must say I keep fantasising about getting tramepling cgarges with mortal wounds. That would need groups of 8 or preferably 12 so I do not loose the 4+ mortal wounds to ranged attacks. Or I would need Monsters.

Ogre Gluttons can re-roll the charge so they are good candidates for it. (I am looking for other sources or-reroll charges to get that number up.)

Stonehorn and Thundertursks also seem very good for getting the mortal wounds. I need to do some math if it is worth buying the base creature, or buying the hero upgraded version.

Am I to assume that heroes can get a look out sir roll or similar to save heroes from ranged weapons? And that heroes on monsters do not? Can monsters actually survive through the first round in AoS? I old warhammer fantasy Cannonball shots (who many armies had) would generally kill the big beasties turn 1.

The Bloodgullet Mawtribe seems good, the apeal is that you essential double up on wizards. Buying 2 butchers means you can atempt to cast 4 spells, and since most of the spells have a treshhold of 7 you can not relly to get spells through.

Meatfists seems good for the aditional trampling charge bonus. And the Gut-plate of Ghur on a Frostlord on Stonehorn.

Boulderhead seems to offer little, although the Brand of the Svard is nice. It is probably better if you go all monsters. My wallet can not survive that, and transporattion of models would be hard.

The undergutt has it's things going, but the playstyle does not apeal to me. Thunderbellies and Witerbite both want priests with them, and they are build around Mournfangs packs (that are good) or Sabres of Yeties, but I do not like it.

I will tink a bit about it. Big units of ogree boosted by a spell (bloodgullet) seems also very good. But 2 full groups of Gluttons are 800 points, two fifths of the whole 2000 points.

I also need to do some math of survivabilaty when it comes to saves.Stonehorn, Gluttons/Ledbelchers and Mournfang packs all seem to be the most survivable.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 13:45:57


Post by: Niiai


Do the gluttons get a discount? Why do 12 cost 400?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 13:48:31


Post by: Stux


 Niiai wrote:
Do the gluttons get a discount? Why do 12 cost 400?


Yes, it's very common in Sigmar to get a discount. Not every unit, but many of them. If you look at the point list in the back of your battletome, you'll see Gluttons listed as 120/400. That means 120 for each multiple of the minimum unit size, and then 400 total for max size.

It also means theres really not much point at stopping at 9 Gluttons in a unit, as you get the next 3 for the price of 1 model.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 17:54:37


Post by: Spreelock


Hey, i've got a quick rules question about ogres iron fist, so if a unit armed with iron fist gets attacked with a rend more than ogres armour save, can I still roll for those mortal wounds?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 18:11:19


Post by: Stux


 Spreelock wrote:
Hey, i've got a quick rules question about ogres iron fist, so if a unit armed with iron fist gets attacked with a rend more than ogres armour save, can I still roll for those mortal wounds?


Yes, you still make the roll. You technically always still make rolls even if they are impossible to pass, though players obviously usually dont bother.

It isnt possible to pass the save, but you may still cause mortal wounds.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 18:39:30


Post by: Spreelock


Okay thanks, now i'm torn between making a choises for either a pair of clubs or iron fist, lol. I'll have to do some math which one does more damage..


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 18:43:54


Post by: Stux


 Spreelock wrote:
Okay thanks, now i'm torn between making a choises for either a pair of clubs or iron fist, lol. I'll have to do some math which one does more damage..


Its difficult question, which we did discuss earlier in the thread.

Basically, you will not get many mortal wounds per dead Ogor. But against the right opponent a few mortal wounds can go a long way, compared to more normal attacks hitting.

There's no easy answer. Personally I favour paired blades, but I know others swear by iron fists.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/28 23:19:24


Post by: Niiai


I have not read the deployment rules for AoS yet.

But with the thunder tribe and the move d6 after deployment can we not garantee a first turn charge with the mournfangs? Deploy 12 in on an 48" table. Move 1d6 from formation. Move 9 + 2 from hungry. Run 1d6. (Have one of the models within 12" from an edge). Charge 2d6 + 1 from the banner.

That is a total of 24 + 4d6 range. If you deolpy the mournfangs last you cab have a huge threath range.

Thoughts?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 09:11:10


Post by: Stux


How are you getting the d6 move after deployment?

Assuming that's correct for a moment, you'll normally have 24" of no man's land to cross to get to the enemy deployment zone. 12" +4d6 is an average of 26". So more often than not you will get a first turn charge IF the enemy is deployed on or very close to the line of their deployment zone, and there isnt intervening terrain blocking the path.

Its certainly not guaranteed, and only particularly relevant if you get first turn. It's still very good, but I'm not sure it's worth giving up the benefits of Bloodgullet, especially if you are wanting to run all those Gluttons still.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 10:45:20


Post by: Niiai


No, I am just theorising all angels before I buy.

The Jorlbad formation gives stonehorns and mournfangs 1d6 move at the start of the game.

On an oggre you pay 40 for 4 wounds with a 5+ save. On mournfangs you pay 70 for 6 wounds with a 4+ save and posabilaty of the leadbelcher weapons. You also get 4 attacks from the cat.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 11:48:40


Post by: Stux


Ah yes, the Battalion. It's a pretty good trick if you want to go heavy on Mournfangs certainly!

Only the unit leader gets a pistol by the way, the rest of the unit only have melee weapons.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 12:12:00


Post by: Niiai


I have noot loked at the pistol that much. I need to do some math breakdowns.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 13:17:00


Post by: Stux


 Niiai wrote:
I have noot loked at the pistol that much. I need to do some math breakdowns.


Ok I thought that was what you were referring to by "possibility of Leadbelcher weapons".


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 15:50:47


Post by: Niiai


I tryed to make the Eurlbad battalion work. On the theory that mortal wounds are good. (A mortal wound on a 6 sounds just sick. A singel mournfang unit has 7 attacks, netting at least 1 mortal wound. In particular longside the trampling charge rule that the behemots have, doing around 3 mortal wounds when they charge. The mortal wounds add up fast.)

How ever, I really underestimate how 'few' things you can get in a list in AoS as opposed to 40K.

This ate up all of my points at 2000 points. It is very hard to combine a battalion and both have a mix of Beastclaw Raiders and regular Ogors. I am happy with the list, but it is not what I want to play. I am also really falling in love with the frostlord on Stonehorn. 400 point is a lot. But 3+ and additional 5+++ is very good.

Spoiler:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Thunderbellies

LEADERS
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait : Storm Chaser
- Artefact : Alvagr Rune-tokens
- Mount Trait : Old Granitetooth
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Chaintrap
- Artefact : Shatterstone
- Mount Trait : Black Clatterhorn
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Lore of Gutmagic : Ribcracker

UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists

BEHEMOTHS
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
- Ogor Mawtribes Battleline (Beastclaw Raiders General)

BATTALIONS
Eurlbad (140)
TOTAL: 2000/2000


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 15:56:14


Post by: Stux


It's just an extremely Elite army, and doubly so if you go pure Beastriders.

I'd drop the 3rd Mournfang Pack. Maybe the Frostlord too. They are fantastic, but you require the other two big beasts for the Battalion. Spend the points on Gluttons and/or Frostsabres. Or a Firebelly, some magic would be very useful, including for unbinding.

You're probably aware already, but just to be sure from what you said - Mournfangs are not monsters, and so only do Mortal wounds on a 6 for trampling charge.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 16:03:27


Post by: Niiai


I corrected some mistakes on the list.

Yes, I know Mournfangs are not monsters. But if they can make a 7 charge, 1 of them are a mortal wound from trampling charge. And when all 4 kitties with riders attak under Eurlbad that is an additional 4 mortal wound. Asuming the opponent does not kille them all.

The 3 big beasts do 3 mortal wounds when they charge. Quite good.

I am 'flicking' around with the points. But it is hard to get a use out of 2 artifacts and 2 mounted traits. It needs 2 heroes on beasts, and a battalion. Perhaps I should focus on not trying to achieve both.

Here is a list with more of a compromise. Bloodgullet for exstra spells (but only 1 wizard, so perhaps not the best use.) Stil using the eurlbad for mortal wounds. Has that big unit of ogre to dish out a lot of damage.

Sources of mortal wounds: The wizards magic missile, mortal wounds from Eurlbad and the charges from the 2 monsters and the unit of ogre.

Spoiler:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

LEADERS
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact : Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait : Old Granitetooth
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Artefact : Wizardflesh Apron
- Lore of Gutmagic : Blood Feast

UNITS
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
4 x Mournfang Pack (280)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists

BEHEMOTHS
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
- Ogor Mawtribes Battleline (Beastclaw Raiders General)

BATTALIONS
Eurlbad (140)
TOTAL: 2000/2000


Can drop the last unit of mournfangs for 1 more butcher perhaps, to get 2 more spells in there.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/29 16:06:29


Post by: Stux


Honestly it's not a bad list at all, just very specialised.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/30 08:00:28


Post by: Niiai


We only have 2 sources for priestst, right? The command trait and the mammuth (thunder thing)?

The mammuth has some plusses if he is around other mamuts. Are those plusses on his two spesific prayers, or every prayer he casts?


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/30 08:18:47


Post by: Stux


 Niiai wrote:
We only have 2 sources for priestst, right? The command trait and the mammuth (thunder thing)?

The mammuth has some plusses if he is around other mamuts. Are those plusses on his two spesific prayers, or every prayer he casts?


Correct, though Priests aren't really that important. A prayer is just an ability you have to roll for. Wizards on the other hand are able to unbind enemy spells, so generally have a lot more utility.

The bonus for having other Thundertusks nearby applies to all prayers that the Huskard performs.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/30 23:27:31


Post by: Niiai


What are the mlign sorcery and different realms? Are there rtefcts there to use?

What about this army? It might be a bit 'spammy'?

I like that I have a big monster in the frostlord. And a lott of damage on the kitties with mortal wounds. I also miss not having magic and a nice BIG group of gluttons. (Although people on the internett seems to love the Ironguts as a damage dealer. But mortal wounds is nice as well, no?)

Spoiler:

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ogor Mawtribes) [2,000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Frostlord on Stonehorn [400pts]: 4. Alvagr Rune-tokens, 4. Frosthoof Bull

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Eurlbad [1,600pts]
. Huskard on Stonehorn: 0. Shatterstone, 0. Storm Chaser, 6. Old Granitetooth, Blood Vulture, General
. Mournfang Pack: 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Banner Bearer, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers, Horn Blower
. Mournfang Pack: 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Banner Bearer, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers, Horn Blower
. Mournfang Pack: 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers
. Mournfang Pack: 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers
. Stonehorn Beastriders: Blood Vulture

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Ogor Mawtribes: Thunderbellies Mawtribe

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/31 08:43:09


Post by: Stux


You can pick a realm of origin, and that allows access to the artefacts of that realm, and realm specific spells. However, your first artefact for Ogors must still be your sub faction artefact (assuming you have a sub faction) so you can only access these artefacts if you have a Battalion to get another artefact. There are some decent ones, but honestly the best Ogor ones are better generally anyway.

As for Malign Sorcery, Ogors dont have their own Endless Spells so you'd just be looking at the generic ones. The Cogs are good but expensive. The Bridge is pretty good, but also pretty expensive. I like Balewind Vortex, essentially a free cast if you succeed, then the extra range and protection is great. Most of the rest are trash. Aethervoid Pendulum is kind of ok, as the opponent cant redirect it and it's decent damage.

Theres nothing wrong with playing a list that is just the big monsters and Mournfangs, they are good units. But it is a skew list, and yeah for an initial army you may want to start with something more balanced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, you also should look at getting a Great Mawpot. They're free to include in your army.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2019/12/31 23:15:59


Post by: NinthMusketeer


To be clear, each army can pick a realm of origin, which grants them access to two artifact charts specific to that realm.

Each match can have a realm the battle is taking place in, granting access to the seven spells specific to that realm for all wizards in the battle regardless of what realm their army came from.

An army does not get to use the realm-specific spells like they would a lore in their battletome.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/01 04:19:07


Post by: mokoshkana


I think realms rules are the worst part of sigmar. Universal spells/artifacts mean balance is not going to happen as battletomes are assuredly not built with them in mind. I've never played a game with them, and I never will.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/01 08:45:06


Post by: NinthMusketeer


They aren't built with double-turns in mind either, if we want to start at the worse end.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/03 03:42:14


Post by: Amishprn86


Lets not get into that in this post, this is about Mawtribes, there is already a place for that talk


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/08 16:21:24


Post by: Niiai


I have to ask, is it worth making the stonehorn a hero? It is an aditional 100 points, an icrease in 33%. It seems very exspensive.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/08 17:55:54


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Well it gives you an improved save (3+ instead of 4+ is a big deal) an improved combat profile (the frostlord's spear is extremely potent), and access to a mount trait + artifact. It is the latter that makes a difference; one does not sink 400 points into a hero if they aren't going to get an artifact and/or trait.

The huskard on stonehorn is cheaper, but really he's for battalion unlocks because the huskard on thundertusk is more tactically valuable.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/08 19:18:26


Post by: mokoshkana


The Frostlord on Stonehorn is the first monster you should build. Then you should build a second one. The unit is just that good. When tacking on artifacts and mount traits, these things become beastly.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/08 22:39:33


Post by: Niiai


But 2 stonehorns are also beasts. Pluss 200 points in units.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/09 04:32:24


Post by: mokoshkana


 Niiai wrote:
But 2 stonehorns are also beasts. Pluss 200 points in units.
See NinthMuskateer's comment. The extra points is worth the upgrades. 4+ saves don't get much mileage, and the Frostlord's spear never degrades. Adding the ability to take artifacts tips the scale further.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/24 19:14:24


Post by: Niiai


I have to ask. On a group of gluttons can you have both banners in a group of 6 gluttons?

'STANDARD BEARERS: 1 in every 6 models
in this unit can be a Beast Skull Bearer, and 1
in every 6 models in this unit can be a Tribal
Banner Bearer'


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/24 19:45:35


Post by: mokoshkana


 Niiai wrote:
I have to ask. On a group of gluttons can you have both banners in a group of 6 gluttons?

'STANDARD BEARERS: 1 in every 6 models
in this unit can be a Beast Skull Bearer, and 1
in every 6 models in this unit can be a Tribal
Banner Bearer'
Yes


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/24 19:58:24


Post by: Niiai


Oh... I need some arm changes then... :-(


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/24 22:48:16


Post by: Stux


 Niiai wrote:
Oh... I need some arm changes then... :-(


It's also debated that they can be the same model. Some people even think the same model can be the champion, bellower, and both banners.

The arguments get very linguistically nitpicky. But the gist is that a model being one thing isnt necessarily mutually exclusive with the same model being another thing.

This is an issue across most armies in the game, and it would be really helpful if GW could FAQ it.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/26 00:49:41


Post by: NinthMusketeer


It depends on the wording for the unit. There is generally a gentleman's agreement that RAI no single model is supposed to be more than just one banner/music/leader. This extends back to AoS 1st ed when, RAW, every model in most units could have music and banner without even needing to be modelled as such.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/26 08:25:53


Post by: Stux


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It depends on the wording for the unit. There is generally a gentleman's agreement that RAI no single model is supposed to be more than just one banner/music/leader. This extends back to AoS 1st ed when, RAW, every model in most units could have music and banner without even needing to be modelled as such.


Agreed, and I do follow this myself.

But I find it bizarre that after all this time there hasn't been an FAQ to confirm it.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/27 03:47:43


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Some areas of AoS rules still operate completely off RAI. For example, there are no rules allowing for some models in an attacking unit to target one enemy while other models target a different enemy. The only rules for splitting between targets come from models with more than one attack.

There is also a rule saying that once a wound is allocated to a model they must continue to be allocated to that model until it is slain. This means that even should the model be healed to full all damage must still be allocated specifically to that model. A restriction that I suspect everyone justifiably ignores.

I could go on, but you get the point.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/27 18:59:57


Post by: Amishprn86


Well the first part what you said is wrong as the rules do say you can pick any unit(s).

PICKING TARGETS
When a unit shoots or fights, you
must first pick the target unit(s) for
all of the weapons it is using, before
any of the attacks with the weapons
are resolved. Only enemy units can
be chosen as the target for an attack.

So you can pick units for all of its weapons, every model has a weapon or more, meaning you can pick every weapon to fight a different unit if you wanted too.

Just b.c its not written (Each and every weapon that each and every model is arm with may choose any unit it is eligible to may do so) doesn't mean its not written in a way we understand that we still can do that.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/27 22:47:29


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Yes, that is exactly what I mean by RAI.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/31 18:03:45


Post by: Niiai


I am stil quite new to AoS, so I have tryed to gather 3rd hand information on strategies. After looking on some lists by the handle Doom & Darknes I have grown fond of the Frost Sabre:

Initially because it is our cheapest units, and it is quite long. This makes for good 2 model units for 40 point for denying deep striking, and 4 man units for 80 point can make screens. (Closest competition are 20 man groups of gnoblars, but they are slow, and ogers are fast.)

But I was really fasinated by their deepstrike abilaties with the hunter:

1. Battalion Skal: Gives them +1 to charge.

2. Their Masters Voice's: Get + 3 to charge if a hunter is close.

3. Lead the Skal: Command abillaty, gives the Frost Sabres +1 attack characteristick (each Sabre gets up to 4 attacks.)

4. Winterbite Mawtribe: Add 1 to wound rolls for Sabres (and Yhetees) that are whole within 12. (Wounding on 2+.)

5. Howl of the Wild: Command abillaty makes 1 unit of Sabres or Yeeties wholy within 12 of a hero to make them fight first.

6. Lastly the battalion makes for a very low drop, something that usually punishes small units for 40 points that should grab objectives.

Could any of this be worth it in Ogre lists? Sabres are only damage 1.

With everything adding up we would end up with Sabres only need to charge 4+ (reliable enough) and attacking on A4 H4+ W2+ R-1 D1. You fight first, if your cats survive you can attack first in the next herophase.

12 Sabres + 1 hunter is 360 points. In addition you have the tax of Skal battalion (100 points) and what else you want.

In a 2000 point list spending 820 points on 2 of this would severyly make your opponents deployment difficult.

Also, lastly, if I use Howl of the Wild and it is my turn can I fight with one sabre unit and then the 'regular' one before my opponent gets to fight with a unit?

I recon if I can spend 80 point on as a chaff line it will be difficult for my opponent to get a first strike on my units with his chaff line killed and mine hiding behind mine.

Spoiler:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Winterbite
LEADERS
Icebrow Hunter (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Wintertouched
Icebrow Hunter (120)
UNITS
12 x Frost Sabres (240)
12 x Frost Sabres (240)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
BATTALIONS
Skal (100)

TOTAL: 1060/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 86

This leaves 940 and one artefact. You start with one exstra command point. You have the option of buying another point for 50 points or grabbing the Kattanak Bowplate for an ekstra command point if you do not want an artefact elsewhere.

What is nice is that the list has is threath potensial (2 units of frost sabres) and board controll (2 units for grabbing objectives, 2 units with 4 sabres to screen your remaining 940 points.) So much of our units deal more damage then they can take so we mostly spend one turn in combat.




Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/31 20:32:13


Post by: NinthMusketeer


You can definitely make some good murdersabres with the new tome if you know what you're doing. Something to keep in mind is many people's opinions may be influenced by the past state of sabres; they were a TERRIBLE unit for a long time.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/31 22:29:34


Post by: Niiai


So this came from the Ogor Facebook group.

From what I can see it does have some perks.

It comes with a build in screen (3 gnoblars) and you can shoot twice with it. The cat and all 3 models can be spread out and grab 3 objects off one unit. Seems pretty unique. Also, the boby trap is very well worded. 2+ is not bad.

So for 160 points you can threaten 3 objectives. Nice! It is not very killy.

I have some rule questions, is it one deployment, or do you deploy it as 1, 2 or 3? I suppose it can not be in the Skal battlion as it refers to the unit name and not the keyword.

[Thumb - 83711695_3541206022617180_5473925291787157504_o.jpg]


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/01/31 22:46:56


Post by: Stux


It specifically says they are separate units so they are two drops to deploy.

You cannot use them in the Skal Battalion.

You're not really threatening objectives if you die to anything more than a stiff wind.

Overall it looks ok for the points though! The trap is neat.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/01 01:58:30


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Threatening objectives with even one model is still threatening objectives. Quite often the game is not about how difficult a unit is to kill, but simply making your opponent do it. Almost any spell/attack/ability used to kill 3 gnoblars could have been better spent doing something else, for example.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/01 08:05:18


Post by: Stux


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Threatening objectives with even one model is still threatening objectives. Quite often the game is not about how difficult a unit is to kill, but simply making your opponent do it. Almost any spell/attack/ability used to kill 3 gnoblars could have been better spent doing something else, for example.


Ok. I'm not saying it's terrible. But you really need to keep the Gnoblars by the Ogor or you're halving his shooting. If you want to just cover objectives just get 4 units of Frostsabres for the same price.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/01 12:37:10


Post by: NinthMusketeer


His shooting is average less than one damage even before saves, I'm far more interested in area coverage than doubling that. This guy brings three outflanking units in for 160, while they aren't good that can stand there and be like 'look at me, I got your objective, you have to waste your time killing me' which in the context of Mawtribes is an extremely useful function I must pay more points to get conventionally. Besides, the gnoblars are there to set the trap, anything after that is gravy!


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/01 12:56:16


Post by: Stux


Yeah that's fair.

As I say, my initial assessment was that the overall package is ok.

I do plan to get him, it's a cool model.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/01 13:22:42


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I agree, it is definitely a cool model.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/13 15:42:57


Post by: Niiai


What models are people using for cats? After realising how many I wanted the easiest for me was to use count as chaos warhounds. They are relativly cheap mofels and they come with the right bases.

I am making 30 of the things. Ideally I think I want 10 more, but I need to start somewhere.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/13 17:16:06


Post by: nels1031


 Niiai wrote:
What models are people using for cats? After realising how many I wanted the easiest for me was to use count as chaos warhounds. They are relativly cheap mofels and they come with the right bases.

I am making 30 of the things. Ideally I think I want 10 more, but I need to start somewhere.


I've seen heavy use of Space Wolf Fenris Wolves and LotR Wargs. Hobbit wolves are better sculpts but more expensive. LotR Wargs are about half the price and have a bit more of a feline face.



Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/13 22:08:01


Post by: mokoshkana


Wargs are the best in my opinion as their relatively patchy fur matches the patchy fur of the Thundertusk/Stonehorn.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/17 18:38:05


Post by: Danny76


With the new Battletome, I was thinking of bringing over my Ogres from Fantasy depending how it might go..
Aside from all having to come off squares..
I have all the units below, and I would aim to use as many as possible (and not buying other things at all - except maybe a ogre sized character extra etc, so no big monsters).

Tyrant x2 (one of each build - 2hw, double hand weapon).
Slaughter/Butcher x2 (possibly add a Firebelly. Don’t have but there is a slot in my foam for him).
Army BSB.
8 bulls, 8 bulls, 8 ironguts, 4 mournfang (all with banners/mus)
6 leadbelchers, ironblaster, scraplauncher, 50 gnoblars.

What would this sort of thing look like? I don’t really want to delve in, if they are not really gonna work without the stonehorn/thundertusk that I imagine most people use.
But wanted an idea before I go in on the book or anything.

(Also, if anyone knows. Are they on rounds the same size as their old squares? I know a lot of stuff went bigger bases to AoS)


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/17 20:58:57


Post by: Stux


You dont need the monsters to make a strong list, going Gutbuster heavy is totally valid. Probably run as Bloodgullet with your 2 Butchers.

Bulls are called Gluttons now. They come in multiples of 3, so you wont be able to use all 16, but close. In big units they're pretty good! Ironguts are good too, and come un multiples of 4 so you can use all of those. Overall youd have a pretty decent army.

Here's a basic list at 2k using just the models you have:


++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ogor Mawtribes) [2,000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Butcher [140pts]

Slaughtermaster [140pts]

Tyrant [160pts]: General

+ Battleline +

Ironguts [220pts]: 4 Ironguts

Ironguts [220pts]: 4 Ironguts

Leadbelchers [240pts]: 3x 2 Leadbelchers

Ogor Gluttons [400pts]: 4x 3 Ogor Gluttons

+ Other +

Gnoblars [200pts]: 2x 20 Gnoblars

Mournfang Pack [280pts]: 2x 2 Mournfang Pack

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/18 01:49:35


Post by: Danny76


Awesome, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for!
My other armies I don’t think I could translate into AoS (Empire too much has gone or notviable, VC is mostly basing to be fair), so it is great to know that these could find a new use here.

Everything is mostly unpainted, so I can also work on the relevant models also which is handy.
I shall have to have a look through the book and see what I think then!
Thanks for the info Stux


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/18 08:06:04


Post by: Stux


Danny76 wrote:
Awesome, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for!
My other armies I don’t think I could translate into AoS (Empire too much has gone or notviable, VC is mostly basing to be fair), so it is great to know that these could find a new use here.

Everything is mostly unpainted, so I can also work on the relevant models also which is handy.
I shall have to have a look through the book and see what I think then!
Thanks for the info Stux


No problem!

When checking out the book, have a look at the Gutbuster Battalions too. You have the models to make most of them, so that opens up some other list building avenues.


Ogor Mawtribes Tactics @ 2020/02/19 17:53:04


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Mawtribes is a pretty well-made battletome. Every unit is useful (grot scraplauncher is a bit of a dud in the larger context but even so it isn't -bad-) and the battalions aren't so good that you are obligated to bring them but not so bad that you are overtly punished for using them (mostly). I would say one of the big advantages of gutbuster battalions is deployment; they consolidate a good number of units into one drop to help secure second turn.