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Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/13 20:09:31


Post by: roboemperor


Rather than spam a million topics on this board, I thought it'd be better to bump this thread a million times.

Q1 How big is each faction?
Imperium of Man - 1million worlds
Orks - ??? As big as imperium of man?
Tau - 100 worlds
Chaos - ???
Tyranids - ??? Multiple Galaxies?
Eldar - ???
Necrons - ??? As big as imperium of man?
Dark Eldar - Commorragh is as big as a star system. How big is a star system?

Q2 What is a soul?
I thought it's the normal soul, you know, your sentience/memories/etc. And that's why the Eldar are scared of dying because their soul will go to Slaanesh.
But necrons are completely souless. And they function just fine (the leaders anyways). So the soul isn't your sentience/memories/etc.?
So what is a soul in WH40K?

Q3 Is the Tyranid hive mind a single entity, or a billions of entities?
So is it like a powerful warp god with a bajillion mindless soldiers, or is it a true hive mind with a bajillion individual entities networking with each other like cloud computing?

Q4 Why aren't Tyranids eating planets?
Pyrovores eat rocks.
Haruspexes eat rock
So what aren't the Tyranids flooding fully conquered planets with Pyrovores and Haruspexes to gobble up the entire planet all the way to the core?

Q5 Why did the necrons go to sleep?
From what I gather, they were spent resource wise so they decided to hunker down until the Eldar kill themselves.
But why didn't they, you know, just hide and gather resources? Why waste 60 million years doing nothing?

Q6 Why didn't the Eldar kill the Necrons in their sleep?
They just kept watch over suspected planets. The Eldar are stronger which is why the Necrons hid, so why didn't they just bust down found tomb worlds and obliterate everything inside? Why leave the Necrons alone while they have no reinforcements?

Q7 Do Necrons reproduce?
I know that they're really, really, really hard to kill and they rebuild all of their broken teleported in soldiers, so they don't really go down in numbers, but do they increase in numbers outside of canoptek stuff?

Q8 How strong is the Necron Obelisk lore wise?
Give me a comparison like a titan or something


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/13 20:19:19


Post by: Lord Damocles


roboemperor wrote:

Necrons - ??? As big as imperium of man?

'What the Imperium cannot know is that, should the Necrons ever fully wake and unite, they would face a foe as numerous as themselves.'
Codex: Necrons (7th ed.) 'The Awakening Empire'


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/13 20:21:33


Post by: Overread


1) Imperium is the biggest by far than all the others
Orks I forget
Eldar don't hold many if any worlds, they lost them during their great fall to Slaanesh when their depravity birthed a Chaos God. They now live on vast "Craftworld" ships

Tyranids - unknown. Technically only 1 planet in the Galaxy though, for purposes still unknown

3) The Tyranid Hive mind is a single mind formed of an infinite number of minds. And like most Tyranid lore any specifics beyond that are totally unknown. We don't even really have any formal confirmation that there's just one Tyranid Hive mind. All tyranid lore is basically other races (mostly Imperials) trying to work them out

4) Ask the Tyranids. Chances are that with the Galaxy still a hotbed of danger for them they have different feeding patterns which might focus on fast feeding rather than slow so that they remain mobile rather than digging in


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/13 22:14:36


Post by: Roknar


What is a soul in 40k? Kind of hard to answer.
Horus' soul was obliterated, and yet simultaneously he is running around in the warp on his own pilgrimage, timy-wimy and all that, but it suggests that a soul isn't simply your warp mirror driving your body.
It's something that can be trapped and still has personality. There was a heretic human in the eisenhorn series, forgot the name, that essentially had his soul in a box. I don't think it was explicitly stated as such but that was my impression. A human soulstone if you want.
It seems Sanguinius is trapped on the spirit of vengeance and there is of course the eldar soulstones which can even pilot machines despite not having a body. Curze might very well be in a soulstone himself.

Ghosts are real, but they're more like echoes and not a trapped soul, so it would seem they don't share that afterlife sort of concept. and strong emotions take a life of their own, unrelated to the soul.
Fabius bile has cloned primarchs which not only seem to remember the past, they are not corrupted by the warp. Despite corrupting your soul is totally a part of chaos, and this is while Fulgrim is still alive.
Unfortunetely it is anyones guess if those clones have a soul of their own. Some eldar has effectively possessed a human before, to it seems clear the there is no strong link between your body and your soul.

We know that chaos cultist's souls belong to their respective chaos god when they die. As you say, necrons do just fine without, assuming the necron was strong willed before loosing it.
Psychic nulls, may or may not have a soul or something else entirely.

The long and the short of it is´that souls are totally a thing in 40k, but nobody really knowns the rules.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 02:56:50


Post by: Headlss


Q4 Why aren't Tyranids eating planets?
Pyrovores eat rocks.
Haruspexes eat rock
So what aren't the Tyranids flooding fully conquered planets with Pyrovores and Haruspexes to gobble up the entire planet all the way to the core?


Tyranids don't make much sense from an ecological stand point. They say when they arrive at a planet they strip it down to bare rock, eating everything alive, all the organic compounds and then sucking up the air and water. Leaving lifeless cold desolation in their wake.

Do you know what gas giants are made of? Organic compounds, water, air stuff.

Jupiter alone has 317.8 times the mass of the Earth. The mass of Saturn is 95 times the mass of the Earth. Neptune has 17 times as much mass compared to the Earth. Uranus is 14.5 times more massive than Earth.

Thats 443 times more mass. And its all the good stuff. All organic compounds nitrogen, ammonia, water, carbon hydrogen. All the stuff that is relatively scarce on rocky planets and all the stuff they scoop up.

All the water on earth makes up only 0.02% of the mass. Atmosphere by mass is a rounding error 0.00008%. So we will call the water and air 1 5000th of the mass of the earth.

So from one small system which may or may not be defended the gass giants can provide as much 'life stuff,' organic compounds etc as 2215000 rocky planets like we use. One system has more of what they want than 2 imperium of mans.

One system has more than double what they could pilliage from the entire Imperium.

But they aren't mining gas giants. They could have more than they could ever use in one system.

They must have other plans. They aren't eating planets. They are sterilizing them.




Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 13:02:32


Post by: Overread


I believe they do eat other worlds. However the story tends to focus on when they hit populated worlds because the Imperium basically doesn't care about gas giants in space, but they do care about Space Marine Homeworlds etc... Though I'm sure there's likely a few stories about fleets engaging over gas giants to try and fend off Tyranids.


Remember the story about Tyranids focuses on other races encountering them so it filters the lore somewhat over what you'd get if stories were written by/about tyranids themselves.



And yes they are sterilizing worlds. Clearly the Hive Mind operates on levels far more than just feeding. Cleansing worlds leaves them barren, but also means that each world consumed empowers the Tyranids and weakens their foes.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 14:43:01


Post by: Headlss


If the Tyranids were mining gas giants it would be all over. They can get more than double the resources from the gas giants of 1 system than the entire imperium.

Gas giants are more common than rocky worlds that can support life.

It is impossible math. There is no way to beat that force. When they entered a solar system they would alter the orbit if the planets.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 15:52:25


Post by: solkan


Tyranids:
Put yourself in the same situation: You fly into a new system, you're tired and hungry, looking for food. What are you going to do? Do you go over to pantry, get out the flour, salt, and all of the raw ingredients, and make your food from scratch, or do you go over to the grocery store and take ready made food off of the shelves?

The description in the codex I think tilts towards the Tyranids attacking worlds for a combination of two reasons:
1. Food to continue.
2. Integration of the biomass and its innovations

It's common in science fiction stories for gas giants to have life on them. That may be enough to explain when the Tyranids will stop to devour a gas giant and when they won't.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 16:18:37


Post by: Overread


At the same time don't forget the huge energy conversions that must go on within Tyranids. Furthermore whilst they are highly evolved they rely on the "meat grinder" method of war even more so than the Imperium. The Swarm is basically following the battle doctrine of "choke the machine guns with bodies" approach to warfare for their gaunt class.


That and lets face it 40K has NEVER been hard-sci-fi in terms of physics.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 17:08:05


Post by: Headlss


 solkan wrote:
Tyranids:
Put yourself in the same situation: You fly into a new system, you're tired and hungry, looking for food. What are you going to do? Do you go over to pantry, get out the flour, salt, and all of the raw ingredients, and make your food from scratch, or do you go over to the grocery store and take ready made food off of the shelves?

The description in the codex I think tilts towards the Tyranids attacking worlds for a combination of two reasons:
1. Food to continue.
2. Integration of the biomass and its innovations

It's common in science fiction stories for gas giants to have life on them. That may be enough to explain when the Tyranids will stop to devour a gas giant and when they won't.


Sure I buy them eating rocky planets for a quick snack before making supper. But once they get around to eating the gas giants the scale is off the charts. 2 millions times more.

At the level of genetic manipulation the nids do there are only 2 inputs energy and matter. There is more of that in 1 system with a reasonable number of gas giants than their is in all the other factions combined.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 18:32:08


Post by: solkan


Headlss wrote:

Sure I buy them eating rocky planets for a quick snack before making supper. But once they get around to eating the gas giants the scale is off the charts. 2 millions times more.

At the level of genetic manipulation the nids do there are only 2 inputs energy and matter. There is more of that in 1 system with a reasonable number of gas giants than their is in all the other factions combined.


If their goal was the consumption of all useful matter for reproduction, then consumption of the gas giants would be productive. If their goal is the integration of biomass, then it's more likely that the consumption of the oceans etc. is a byproduct of the process, then consumption of lifeless gas giants isn't productive.

That's why I made the comparison between the pantry and the grocery store. Sure, a gas giant has all sorts of things that are present in food. But none of it has been assembled as food yet. The Tyranids go a planet, eat all the food , then they eat their plates and utensils and lick the foundation clean to ensure they got everything. It's like being hungry for Taco Bell, so you go and eat a Taco Bell restaurant and everything in it down to the foundation.

I mean, if the Tyranids cared about gas giants, why would they bother with gene stealers, the gene stealer cults, and all of that stuff about leading the hive to tasty planets. All the hive would need, if they cared about raw materials is to grow big eyes on their ships and look for gas giants.

Which implies possibilities like:
1. They're intelligent and they're doing this sub-optimal thing deliberately because they prefer it.
2. Something made them this way.
3. Something else did develop which eats gas giants, and the Tyranids are the complimentary niche life form.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 18:39:14


Post by: Saber


Tyranids want genetic material, first and foremost. That's why they scour planets to find every last, little bit of life. The activities of Genestealers indicate that the Hive Mind especially values complex life forms.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/14 18:41:51


Post by: flandarz


Most likely explanation is that it just takes too much energy to convert raw elements into actual organic compounds. Gas giants don't really have proteins and sugars floating around in them. The water and air Nids take from planets are probably because of how essential these are for organic life, not because they convert them into any kind of organic compound.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/15 15:36:01


Post by: Headlss


 flandarz wrote:
Most likely explanation is that it just takes too much energy to convert raw elements into actual organic compounds. Gas giants don't really have proteins and sugars floating around in them. The water and air Nids take from planets are probably because of how essential these are for organic life, not because they convert them into any kind of organic compound.


Photosynthesis is the process by which plants, some bacteria and some protistans use the energy from sunlight to produce glucose from carbon dioxide and water. This glucose can be converted into pyruvate which releases adenosine triphosphate (ATP) by cellular respiration. Oxygen is also formed.


If a daffodil can do it I bet the hive mind can figure out photosynthesis.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/15 16:10:23


Post by: Overread


Aye, but rendering a whole planet down at the mineral level using plants takes a very long time. Long enough that you'd bet the Imperium would be sending fleets to run Exterminatus programs against the Hive Fleet whilst they are immobile and shackled to a planet.


Tyranids are clearly not just feeding, their pattern of movement suggests a far more targeted invasion. They clearly identified the Marines are a clear threat to themselves and made two fleets go on basically a Crusade against specific Marine Chapters.

Tyranids are very clearly intending to destroy the core power-base of the greatest threats in the Galaxy. I suspect if/when the Tyranids had wiped out the last species capable of rising against them they might well settle down to harvesting mineral content and other resources from less pre-prepared planets and worlds. At that point they'd have nothing to fear and could take their time steadily feeding.

IT might even be that out in the black between Galaxies there are other forms of Hive Ship designed specifically to graze at a galaxy. That the Hive Fleets we see thus far are specifically the pacification end of the Tyranid Swarm. Designed to gain new genetic data; to consume readily available biomass and move with speed. Designed to both assault and take out specific threats, but also to continually weaken. Tyranids might be able to slow down and graze on mineral worlds, but the likes of the Imperium only weaken every time a habitable world is consumed and rendered inhospitable for human life. Sure the Imperium can terraform and build hive cities; but all that costs them additional investment and resources.

The Tyranids current method of attack bleeds at the Imperium and denies them worlds; systems; staging grounds; whilst continually taking down the greatest threats to themselves.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/15 16:12:05


Post by: flandarz


I'm sure it could, but as per your photosynthesis quote, it would require a source of energy. In this case, proximity to a star. It's there the secondary issue of it being REALLY inefficient for "mobile" creatures. Moving requires a lot of energy, as do things like brains and hearts. There's a reason animals don't perform photosynthesis.

So, I imagine, a Hive feeding in gas giants would only do so if in a "dormant" state, and close enough to the system's star to utilize the energy to convert those raw materials into something usable.

Edit: also what the person who posted above me said.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/16 01:35:26


Post by: roboemperor


So I did some digging, is this correct?

Norn Queen = A single completely sentient, intelligent, and INDEPENDENT entity in control of an entire hive fleet/army. Either in a Hive Ship or a Dominatrix.

Hive Mind = All the Norn Queens

Source:https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Norn-Queen
Norn Queens psychically arguing with their sisters through the hive mind and giving orders to all tyranids.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/16 02:06:39


Post by: Headlss


Isn't the Norn Queen that lady in the sphere borg ship from star treck?

Or am I getting her confused with a Zerg lady from star craft?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/16 02:10:34


Post by: roboemperor


Headlss wrote:
Isn't the Norn Queen that lady in the sphere borg ship from star treck?

Or am I getting her confused with a Zerg lady from star craft?


They're the highest ranking creatures in the entire tyranid race. When one dies their psychic death knell is so powerful it momentarily puts out the emperor's warp beacon and any other norn queen that receives that death knell makes more norn queens.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/17 03:02:00


Post by: nareik


What if jungle deathworlds are an early tyrannid attempt at assimilating the mineral content of rocky planets and capture energy from their sun in a slowburn fashion?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/17 06:07:24


Post by: 123ply


I dont understand the Necron hybernation either. By the end of the War in Heaven they were too damaged to beat up the Eldar, and instead waited until they died out and more races came up for them to conquer.

I mean, what made them think the next big race wouldnt be even stronger than the Eldar? And how does waiting for the galaxy to teem with life help them conquer it as opposed to a galaxy where most life has been killed?

But Necrons were much more powerful than Eldar. They were simply too bruised up after killing the Old Ones that they couldnt help but to sleep a little bit


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/17 10:28:04


Post by: Overread


nareik wrote:
What if jungle deathworlds are an early tyrannid attempt at assimilating the mineral content of rocky planets and capture energy from their sun in a slowburn fashion?



There's actually earlier lore in one of the Codex where Imperials propose that the Catachan Devil might actually be a Tyraind. A species send far into the Galaxy many generations ago as a scout which was designed to operate (reproduce) on its own. However having completed its objective and kept breeding outside of contact with the Swarm it steadily lost elements of itself like its connection to the Hive Mind - rendering it a very deadly, but isolated species.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/18 05:57:56


Post by: roboemperor


Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems...

Necrons will win WH40K.
They are as numerous as Imperium of man.
They are stronger than the imperium of man.
They got these crazy powerful artifacts
and...

Cadian Pylons shutdown the warp, defeating everything.
Chaos
Tyranids.
Eldar

Am I correct about Cadian Pylons destroying Tyranid Psychic Synapse Communications/Connections and rendering them worthless?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/18 07:40:24


Post by: pm713


Necrons win because they can either just wait for Tyranids to cripple everyone and finish people off or just use time travel to go back and do it differently.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/18 08:24:39


Post by: roboemperor


1. It says 100% of the tyranid reproduction is done by the Norn Queen. So how did the Octarius tyranids reproduce while hiding from the orks? Did they have a Norn Queen hiding under the surface?

2. I also read something about a pariah gene being injected into a Norn Queen to make it self aware and separate from the hive mind. This true?

3. Kroots can eat and digest Necrodermis?



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/18 09:30:36


Post by: Overread


Tyranids are masters of evolution - either they had a Norn Queen hidden or they evolved something very specific to deal with a specific problem. Much like they've evolved and now use the Tervigon as a main battle-line unit that births new gaunts.
They've also been shown to use rippers like larva from Starcraft Zerg. Ergo breeding rippers in pools and then letting them feast, the ripper then using the additional gained body mass to change its form into the gaunt genus.

Basically Tyranids don't have had and fast rules to how they behave because all the "rules" we know of are only based upon observation and extrapolation by other races. Tyranids are quite happy to change things as the situation requires.

Look at the other change, the Swarmlord. An almost individual within the swarm that preserves its identity and gene pool and is reborn through other hives as required. Allowing it to "move" impossible distances across the Galaxy to be where it needs to be.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/18 20:26:15


Post by: roboemperor


 Overread wrote:
Tyranids are masters of evolution - either they had a Norn Queen hidden or they evolved something very specific to deal with a specific problem. Much like they've evolved and now use the Tervigon as a main battle-line unit that births new gaunts.
They've also been shown to use rippers like larva from Starcraft Zerg. Ergo breeding rippers in pools and then letting them feast, the ripper then using the additional gained body mass to change its form into the gaunt genus.

Basically Tyranids don't have had and fast rules to how they behave because all the "rules" we know of are only based upon observation and extrapolation by other races. Tyranids are quite happy to change things as the situation requires.

Look at the other change, the Swarmlord. An almost individual within the swarm that preserves its identity and gene pool and is reborn through other hives as required. Allowing it to "move" impossible distances across the Galaxy to be where it needs to be.


So either the rippers metamorphosed into a Norn Queen or something else spawns rippers.

I guess if Necrons Pylon up the entire galaxy the Tyranids will just adapt and create a new hive mind that doesn't use psychic communications.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/19 02:49:51


Post by: godardc


OP: the orks are IIRC bigger than the whole Imperium of Man. There are sometimes whole xenos empires between two single human worlds. And most of them are Orks. The only issue is they aren't United, at all.
The eldars did attack the necrons during the great sleep, but they were quite busy too and then the fall happened (and necrons world weren't without defenses + hidden on mainly death worlds where nobody come).
The necrons are about as numerous as Mankind IIRC again.
In the good old fluff when things made sense and weren't written by monkeys, the necrons went to bed because of the Enslaver Plague: after so much war, using psy powers and causing so much pain and sorrow, the warp echoed it and enslavers and maybe deamons too ( don't remember exactl it has been a long time) came into the galaxy and took control of parts of it and living beings in it. It was a total less so the necrons sealed themselves away awaiting for things to calm down.
In the good old fluff again they could reproduce in a way: the pariah ! They had engineered the bull gene into mankind and we're actively harvesting null people and turning them into null necrons. Super cool unit that just disappeared.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/19 03:11:46


Post by: Crimson


 godardc wrote:

In the good old fluff when things made sense and weren't written by monkeys, the necrons

Let me finish that sentence for you: 'did not exist!'


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/19 03:26:13


Post by: Hellebore


Things would have been fine if they'd just released a new codex that talked about rebellious factions of necrons, but left the main force as slaves.

Ward completely undermined the ctan with the switcheroo he pulled.

Also, there was no reason at all to give necrons their own looted webway, and then turn around and give their ftl to the bids with a the narvhal....


The necrons slept for 60 million years while the Eldar fell around the 25-30th millennium. That a lot of millions of years for them to do nothing to the necrons....



Given that the age of the imperium is 0.0006% of the history of life in the galaxy post war in heaven, there's an entire massive history to explore that is completely ignored.

The galaxy before humanity existed would be an interesting one to see


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/19 09:37:43


Post by: pm713


I hope we never see it too. GW just make things worse when they try 'improving' it. For example they tried improving Necrons with personalities and made them a weird combination of unbeatable and complete idiots.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2019/12/20 07:36:05


Post by: roboemperor


Do Broodnests actually generate Tyranids or do they just store and gestate Tyranid seeds that landed already?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/15 03:26:51


Post by: roboemperor


Are the important guys in the Imperium of Man immortal?
Space Marines
Inquisitors
Leaders of the Imperial Guard
Sisters of Battle
etc.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/15 05:00:36


Post by: Voss


roboemperor wrote:
Are the important guys in the Imperium of Man immortal?
Space Marines
Inquisitors
Leaders of the Imperial Guard
Sisters of Battle
etc.


Marines are likely longer lived, somewhat to the point of absurdity in the singular case of Dante of the Blood Angels holding the record at 1000-odd years of continuous service.
Also the absurdity that is Cawl, but he's got the more machine now than man going for (against) him. It isn't clear if anything of the original man is even left.

Most high ranking people have access to rejuve treatments, which effectively resets physical age.

But no, immortality isn't in the cards for the Imperium. There are undefined limits to rejuve, but if they survive, they tend to end up in a teaching retirement/old folks home, if the Ciaphas Cain novels are any indication.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/20 08:25:44


Post by: roboemperor


Can the Gue'vesa be part of the Earth Caste and create battlesuits and weaponry?

edit: There seems to be Gue'vesa Crisis Suit pilots in the Damocles Anthology so i don't think there is any reason there can't be.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/20 10:02:08


Post by: lcmiracle


Regarding Q1: Eldars, at least the playable not dark kind, as mentioned before no longer inhabit any worlds. Their massive sub-light spacefaring craftworlds can contain... however many Eldars you need for the plot. In the old fluff (that I do know) in Codex: Eldar 6th edition page 12 "The Webway" stated that the craftworlds were sub-light vessels moved by solar sails as they were so huge no webway gates were large enough to accommodate them. Instead they had webway gates on them so they can send Eldars and even their ships to other parts of the galaxy. I don't know if they've changed, though I quite liked it. It makes even more sense why the Eldars focus so much on divination to avoid disaster as just like most species, they've got homes that they can't just magically puff up into smoke, like most other species in the galaxy.

And as far as I know the Exodites who still settle on exodite worlds across the galaxy are still canon, so if you count them as the non-dark Eldar as well then there can be hundreds to perhaps millions more worlds under Eldar control.

Meanwhile I'm not really sure about the size of Commorragh, I had made notes of fluffs that I could get my hands on back before 8th edition, so I know in 7th it stated "Its dimensions would be considered impossible if they could be read by conventional means, its population greater than that of whole star systems. If anything, Commorragh is more like a vast collection of satellite realms and cities linked by myriad portals and hidden pathways. Viewed from one perspective, Commorragh is a loose collection of far-flung nodes spread throughout the arteries of the webway like a malevolent virus." (The Dark City)

I mean maybe its size is comparable to an especially large star system, but that's up to a dozen or so worlds at most. And how are we to figure out if the void between planets, which constitutes the biggest chunk of the space, should be included or not? It was stated outright it was pointless to try figuring out its size. All that matters is that it is huge and it can contain... however many Dark Eldars as the plot demands. Oh and just like the craftworlds they can get anywhere using its webway gates.

By the number of worlds actively under a faction's control the Imperium is most likely the largest in the galaxy. Most other factions control varying sized packets of spaces between imperial controlled spaces... whatever that means since planets and systems, you know, move.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/20 11:00:09


Post by: Morgasm the Powerfull


 lcmiracle wrote:
Regarding Q1: Eldars, at least the playable not dark kind, as mentioned before no longer inhabit any worlds. Their massive sub-light spacefaring craftworlds can contain... however many Eldars you need for the plot. In the old fluff (that I do know) in Codex: Eldar 6th edition page 12 "The Webway" stated that the craftworlds were sub-light vessels moved by solar sails as they were so huge no webway gates were large enough to accommodate them. Instead they had webway gates on them so they can send Eldars and even their ships to other parts of the galaxy. I don't know if they've changed, though I quite liked it. It makes even more sense why the Eldars focus so much on divination to avoid disaster as just like most species, they've got homes that they can't just magically puff up into smoke, like most other species in the galaxy.

And as far as I know the Exodites who still settle on exodite worlds across the galaxy are still canon, so if you count them as the non-dark Eldar as well then there can be hundreds to perhaps millions more worlds under Eldar control.

Meanwhile I'm not really sure about the size of Commorragh, I had made notes of fluffs that I could get my hands on back before 8th edition, so I know in 7th it stated "Its dimensions would be considered impossible if they could be read by conventional means, its population greater than that of whole star systems. If anything, Commorragh is more like a vast collection of satellite realms and cities linked by myriad portals and hidden pathways. Viewed from one perspective, Commorragh is a loose collection of far-flung nodes spread throughout the arteries of the webway like a malevolent virus." (The Dark City)

I mean maybe its size is comparable to an especially large star system, but that's up to a dozen or so worlds at most. And how are we to figure out if the void between planets, which constitutes the biggest chunk of the space, should be included or not? It was stated outright it was pointless to try figuring out its size. All that matters is that it is huge and it can contain... however many Dark Eldars as the plot demands. Oh and just like the craftworlds they can get anywhere using its webway gates.

By the number of worlds actively under a faction's control the Imperium is most likely the largest in the galaxy. Most other factions control varying sized packets of spaces between imperial controlled spaces... whatever that means since planets and systems, you know, move.
I wouldn't be suprised if the various eldar factions had small outpost and colonies on many unmentioned planets or living as small minority communities on more peaceful planets that go unmention because they're, you know, peaceful and GW hasn't made fancy plastic to sell about them.

As for the planets of the tabletop factions I think Orks have the most. They are always described as the most numerous species in a galaxy of hundreds of billions of planets. Imperium on the other hand is only ever described as a bunch of islands spread thinly across a million worlds rather than some continious empire, and while yes, the "million worlds" is just a figure of speech it does give some insight into Imperium size. Namely if it had something like 10 million worlds or 10 billion worlds the fluff would most likely say so, but it doesn't a million it is.

Lot more than any other single polity at the moment but a lot less than all the fractious Orks worlds combined.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 08:29:37


Post by: roboemperor


How does the Adeptus Mechanicus recruit? and How do those recruits become tech priests?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 09:44:39


Post by: beast_gts


roboemperor wrote:
How does the Adeptus Mechanicus recruit? and How do those recruits become tech priests?


It depends on the Forgeworld - some will vat grow people, test them then assign them roles; some allow existing tech-priests to clone themselves and others recruit from the local population. If you have some technical ability you'll enter the lower ranks (like Enginseer) but you need an appreciation of the spiritual side to progress higher.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 09:55:11


Post by: Tiennos


roboemperor wrote:
How does the Adeptus Mechanicus recruit? and How do those recruits become tech priests?

Well, when a techpriest and a techpriestess love each other very much...

But seriously, they're hardly ever mentioned, but there must be a lot of ordinary humans living on forge worlds, mostly working in the factories. That's where the AdMech gets skitarii and new techpriests.
The Mechanicus acts like a mix between a mystery cult and a middle-age guild. That implies a system of apprenticeship: a new recruit blindly serves an established techpriest and slowly learns the cult's secrets while doing so. Once they've learned enough, they can become a fully-fledged techpriest and take apprentices of their own.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 10:19:21


Post by: Ernestas


Gas giants are made out of organic compounds? o_O


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 11:14:10


Post by: Tiennos


 Ernestas wrote:
Gas giants are made out of organic compounds? o_O

No, they're mostly hydrogen, but they still contain a lot of organic molecules like methane.

NB: in chemistry, "organic" means basically anything containing carbon.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 13:51:50


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
Gas giants are made out of organic compounds? o_O


Tyranids eat atmosphere. Literally. Gas Giants are mostly hydrogen which is an element found in virtually (or literally) every single organic molecule in existence. They also have helium and we modern humans have the technology to split them into two hydrogen.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/22 14:24:51


Post by: solkan


More importantly, things like the food chain can be summed up as:
Let another creature do organic chemistry for you, and then eat it.

That's part of the plausible explanation for why the Tyranids don't just stop and eat an entire system. Methane, water, carbon and minerals aren't a balanced diet.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/23 10:02:14


Post by: Ernestas


Soul is collection of whom you are. Your memories, feelings, personality. It is also ability to feel and experience emotions. Every living and some unliving creatures have a soul. Soul is also always represented in a warp, this is essentially how demons see a person, it is their reflection within warp. When person dies, it is because his body dies, his soul remains in the warp and person's awareness changes from being in reality to the warp. For vast majority of living creatures, they either do not experience this afterlife or they barely comprehend it. An average human soul has awareness of plankton. It is best understood like this, when you die you become a plankton in a vast ocean. You might float and live for practically eternity and you might get eaten one day. Greater beings like psykers which all eldar are, they usually retain all their consciousness and personality when their bodies dies. So, after death you find yourself in the warp, no God had claimed your soul and you just float in that ocean. You know that there are countless predators there who would more than enjoy eating you alive, often with a lot of torture before. This soul torture is like slowly being melted alive. Demon will eat on everything who you are and you will slowly and in great agony lose yourself to him. You will start forgetting who you are, what is happiness and you will be left as an empty wreck screaming in pain. When soul is sufficiently sucked in this way, demon might end your misery. Of course, only some of denizens of a warp prefer to play with their meal like that and it so slowly. This is essentially what Dark Eldar do when they are feasting on your soul. Your pain and suffering will sustain others, because you can feel and you need to experience as strong emotions as possible if you want to feed others as well as you can. Needless to say, feeling extremities of any emotion will slowly decay your soul.

 Tiennos wrote:
 Ernestas wrote:
Gas giants are made out of organic compounds? o_O

No, they're mostly hydrogen, but they still contain a lot of organic molecules like methane.

NB: in chemistry, "organic" means basically anything containing carbon.


But gas giants are made up of mainly hydrogen and helium. These organic compounds are only found in trace amounts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
roboemperor wrote:
 Ernestas wrote:
Gas giants are made out of organic compounds? o_O


Tyranids eat atmosphere. Literally. Gas Giants are mostly hydrogen which is an element found in virtually (or literally) every single organic molecule in existence. They also have helium and we modern humans have the technology to split them into two hydrogen.


How Tyranids get them those materials from gravity well?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/23 10:19:43


Post by: Tiennos


 Ernestas wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
 Ernestas wrote:
Gas giants are made out of organic compounds? o_O

No, they're mostly hydrogen, but they still contain a lot of organic molecules like methane.

NB: in chemistry, "organic" means basically anything containing carbon.


But gas giants are made up of mainly hydrogen and helium. These organic compounds are only found in trace amounts.

Gas giants are also that: giants.

Jupiter is only about 0.3% methane by volume, but that 0.3% still represents around 4 times the Earth's volume. Not the volume of methane found on Earth mind you, the actual volume of the whole planet.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/23 10:32:21


Post by: Ernestas


So you think it is feasible for Tyranids to dry an entire gas giant dry?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/23 10:52:57


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
So you think it is feasible for Tyranids to dry an entire gas giant dry?


It is totally doable for modern humans to do it in the future. Why isn't it for a bajillion year old mega ultimate bio weapon super organism? Answer: Because they're not actually "ultimate". If octarius is any indication, they're probably weaker than orks as a whole. And orks can't mine gas giants either.

And water is prevalent in all organisms and water is H2O. Every living organism is at least 53% hydrogen.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/25 13:53:14


Post by: Tastyfish


 Ernestas wrote:
So you think it is feasible for Tyranids to dry an entire gas giant dry?


It is just gas, if you took all the gas out of it you'd just be moving all the gas and the planet into a slightly different place.
It's probably not worth their time, whilst there might be a lot of useful material in a big planet, you've got fixed energy costs in just surviving and the time it would take to sieve out the bits you wanted probably don't justify doing it.

You can digest pollen, and break it down into nutrients you can use - doesn't mean you can survive just by swallowing air.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/25 13:57:19


Post by: flandarz


Even if the Nids could "eat" a gas giant with 100% efficiency, the time it would take to do would be undesirable and dangerous to a race currently under attack. We're talking hundreds or thousands of years here. These things are absolutely massive.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/28 23:36:47


Post by: -Guardsman-


How is Goge Vandire pronounced?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/28 23:59:57


Post by: Hellebore


 Ernestas wrote:
So you think it is feasible for Tyranids to dry an entire gas giant dry?


Well they literally do that to normal planets anyway and those are mostly nitrogen with a little oxygen (if humans live on them).

The process they use to siphon everything up to space would work anywhere.


Also, gas giants may not be the best option. They would probably go for the Kuiper belt of every system First as they are composed of methane, ammonia and water ice which combined provide all the organic chemistry you need for life and in huge easily consumable quantities.

IMO the only reason Tyranids invade planets specifically with life isn't biomass, it's to add its genetic distinctiveness to their own.

All GW has to do is slightly reword the background to describe 'genomass' or something like it and acknowledge that they get the majority of their organic building blocks from Harvester drones in the Kuiper belt.

Because while they are great atd splicing genes, they aren't great at inventing new ones so the genomass of a planet becomes a highly sought after resource for their perpetual improvement.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 00:00:00


Post by: Mr Morden


Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
 lcmiracle wrote:
Regarding Q1: Eldars, at least the playable not dark kind, as mentioned before no longer inhabit any worlds. Their massive sub-light spacefaring craftworlds can contain... however many Eldars you need for the plot. In the old fluff (that I do know) in Codex: Eldar 6th edition page 12 "The Webway" stated that the craftworlds were sub-light vessels moved by solar sails as they were so huge no webway gates were large enough to accommodate them. Instead they had webway gates on them so they can send Eldars and even their ships to other parts of the galaxy. I don't know if they've changed, though I quite liked it. It makes even more sense why the Eldars focus so much on divination to avoid disaster as just like most species, they've got homes that they can't just magically puff up into smoke, like most other species in the galaxy.

And as far as I know the Exodites who still settle on exodite worlds across the galaxy are still canon, so if you count them as the non-dark Eldar as well then there can be hundreds to perhaps millions more worlds under Eldar control.

Meanwhile I'm not really sure about the size of Commorragh, I had made notes of fluffs that I could get my hands on back before 8th edition, so I know in 7th it stated "Its dimensions would be considered impossible if they could be read by conventional means, its population greater than that of whole star systems. If anything, Commorragh is more like a vast collection of satellite realms and cities linked by myriad portals and hidden pathways. Viewed from one perspective, Commorragh is a loose collection of far-flung nodes spread throughout the arteries of the webway like a malevolent virus." (The Dark City)

I mean maybe its size is comparable to an especially large star system, but that's up to a dozen or so worlds at most. And how are we to figure out if the void between planets, which constitutes the biggest chunk of the space, should be included or not? It was stated outright it was pointless to try figuring out its size. All that matters is that it is huge and it can contain... however many Dark Eldars as the plot demands. Oh and just like the craftworlds they can get anywhere using its webway gates.

By the number of worlds actively under a faction's control the Imperium is most likely the largest in the galaxy. Most other factions control varying sized packets of spaces between imperial controlled spaces... whatever that means since planets and systems, you know, move.
I wouldn't be suprised if the various eldar factions had small outpost and colonies on many unmentioned planets or living as small minority communities on more peaceful planets that go unmention because they're, you know, peaceful and GW hasn't made fancy plastic to sell about them.

As for the planets of the tabletop factions I think Orks have the most. They are always described as the most numerous species in a galaxy of hundreds of billions of planets. Imperium on the other hand is only ever described as a bunch of islands spread thinly across a million worlds rather than some continious empire, and while yes, the "million worlds" is just a figure of speech it does give some insight into Imperium size. Namely if it had something like 10 million worlds or 10 billion worlds the fluff would most likely say so, but it doesn't a million it is.

Lot more than any other single polity at the moment but a lot less than all the fractious Orks worlds combined.


There is some older Lore that Craftworlds still had colony worlds


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 06:43:11


Post by: Ernestas


Your ideas are silly. Tell to Eldars that they were doing their tech all this time wrong. All they needed was some soil, air or whatever and they could manufacture whatever they need.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 07:07:26


Post by: Hellebore


 Ernestas wrote:
Your ideas are silly. Tell to Eldars that they were doing their tech all this time wrong. All they needed was some soil, air or whatever and they could manufacture whatever they need.


Nah, their manufacturing capabilities are more sophisticated than that.

Wraithbone is never ending and springs from nothing. All they need to do is psychically imagine something and they can form it just using the warp energy they are channelling.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 07:58:05


Post by: Jimsolo


-Guardsman- wrote:
How is Goge Vandire pronounced?


I always pronounced it "Goj" (like as in goji berries, but without the -i at the end).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 09:22:58


Post by: Ernestas


Hellebore wrote:
 Ernestas wrote:
Your ideas are silly. Tell to Eldars that they were doing their tech all this time wrong. All they needed was some soil, air or whatever and they could manufacture whatever they need.


Nah, their manufacturing capabilities are more sophisticated than that.

Wraithbone is never ending and springs from nothing. All they need to do is psychically imagine something and they can form it just using the warp energy they are channelling.


Being honest, Eldar methods of construction while advanced are hardly efficient. If they would stop being so arrogant, they could really kick off their galactic conquest with mass production of robots made completely from dust found in intergalactic medium or dust clouds.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 10:43:43


Post by: DalekCheese


-Guardsman- wrote:
How is Goge Vandire pronounced?


I’ve always heard it pronounced Gøg (as in “go outside)


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/29 16:37:06


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
Being honest, Eldar methods of construction while advanced are hardly efficient. If they would stop being so arrogant, they could really kick off their galactic conquest with mass production of robots made completely from dust found in intergalactic medium or dust clouds.


Eldar don't use robots because it leads to slaanesh. They had robots doing all of their wars before the fall.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 07:22:16


Post by: Ernestas


It is their decadence which had lead them to their fate. Robots are cool. Eldars could just set them up in intergalactic void and come back with massive galaxy conquering army of robots a millenia later made out from all of the material there.

They could also take some stars and planets who are in that void and mine it or settle it down. No more troubles for them and those areas are so isolated that even Tyranids most likely won't stumble there.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 08:27:43


Post by: pm713


 Ernestas wrote:
It is their decadence which had lead them to their fate. Robots are cool. Eldars could just set them up in intergalactic void and come back with massive galaxy conquering army of robots a millenia later made out from all of the material there.

They could also take some stars and planets who are in that void and mine it or settle it down. No more troubles for them and those areas are so isolated that even Tyranids most likely won't stumble there.

The decadence stemmed from not having to do anything which resulted from the robots. Robots were step 1 on the path to the Fall.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 11:46:34


Post by: Ernestas


Do you think that this holds true anymore for an Eldar race? That robots will remove all their problems and they won't have to worry about anything again?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 12:01:35


Post by: Overread


Part of the issue is that Eldar are a "broken" people. Long lifespans coupled to an insane level of fear from Slaanesh which preys on them even now with their very way of life.

Basically they are shattered and then entrapped within themselves. Plus if I recall right many of their heroes and leaders are from the time of the fall, so they saw their race at its best, at its worst and now shattered beyond repair. Basically I think they see a huge uphill struggle if they wanted to regain their Empire coupled with the fact that if they actually won back the Galaxy they'd STILL have to contend with Slaanesh.

I think the drive and motivation isn't there for them to rebuild themselves. At least within the standard Craftworld groups.

Settled and expanding Eldar I think we'd see more of from the Exodites if they became an actual army. Meanwhile the new Yinnari appears to be the group focusing on newer, younger Eldar who have a tiny bit more spark in them.



Eldar are basically a very slow to breed and repopulate species. Even with increased medical care its clear that they don't repopulate at a fast speed; which means that when you're in a state of constant war for thousands of years it becomes very hard to increase your population in a meaningful way. Especially if you've got to invest even more heavily into your population to stop it imploding and killing itself to Slaanesh.



Eldar are basically "caged"


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 12:58:36


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


 Ernestas wrote:
It is their decadence which had lead them to their fate. Robots are cool. Eldars could just set them up in intergalactic void and come back with massive galaxy conquering army of robots a millenia later made out from all of the material there.

They could also take some stars and planets who are in that void and mine it or settle it down. No more troubles for them and those areas are so isolated that even Tyranids most likely won't stumble there.


I nearly agreed till I realized, no matter where you are. How well defended, hidden or isolated.

An Ork warboss WILL fly a Rok into your base.

Law of 40k.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 17:31:38


Post by: Ernestas


Each dot represents a star cluster. You see rough outline of our milky way galaxy. Do you see that there are quite a bit of stars who are loosely connected with our galaxy? Stars like these and other intergalactic stars would be a perfect place to settle. They are so far away from everyone that even warp there doesn't reach as it should. It is equivalent of building your civilization in a middle of Antarctica. You are pretty much destined to be isolated there. Plenty of space and time to start getting busy in bed while your robots create massive robot army from bunch of space dust and rocks to re-conquer entire galaxy.

Spoiler:





Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 18:34:55


Post by: pm713


 Ernestas wrote:
Do you think that this holds true anymore for an Eldar race? That robots will remove all their problems and they won't have to worry about anything again?

No but I also think it doesn't matter. Craftworlders live in a society where everything is based around avoiding what lead to the Fall at all costs, they won't let you be both a sculptor and a gardener they're so paranoid. Exodites intentionally live on worlds with almost no technology, Corsairs don't have the required industry and Dark Eldar would still have to do fighting etc themselves so why bother?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 19:46:22


Post by: roboemperor


There's got to be a reason why dark eldar don't use robots. their pain engines are as close as it gets yet they prefer vat grown eldar over robots.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/30 20:39:10


Post by: Tiennos


roboemperor wrote:
There's got to be a reason why dark eldar don't use robots. their pain engines are as close as it gets yet they prefer vat grown eldar over robots.

Vect has a bunch of them. He probably has a whole collection of exotic superweapons stashed away actually, but he uses these to get rid of his rivals, not build an empire. The status quo is very nice for him, after all.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 06:25:03


Post by: Ernestas


Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 11:24:23


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.


Crone Worlds.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 12:06:43


Post by: Ernestas


They are just creating problems for themselves where shouldn't be any problems to begin with.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 13:44:01


Post by: Jimsolo


At least one craftworld tried that. Check out Ghost Warrior by Gav Thorpe to see how it worked out for them.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 14:37:33


Post by: Ernestas


I assume that it went poorly for them. Nobody besides Orks can have a happy ending in W40k.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 15:55:08


Post by: pm713


 Jimsolo wrote:
At least one craftworld tried that. Check out Ghost Warrior by Gav Thorpe to see how it worked out for them.

Or don't if you don't want to waste your time and money.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 16:03:21


Post by: Bharring


 Ernestas wrote:
Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.

Uthwe would love to. Historically, their fluff has said they're caught in the orbit of the Eye.
Biel Tan wanted to restart the Eldar Empire where they were. They made some progress, but they've been disolved (for other reasons).
Mymera basically did this, trying to stay away from established empires and forces. They did fairly well over ten millennia, but couldn't entirely avoid the Imperium.
Iyanden is barely surviving. Not many options for what they do.
Saim-Hann are White Scar Mongoloid Wannabees. Where's the fun in that?
That really just leaves Alaitoc to possibly do it, of the major craftworlds.

Besides, if any Craftworld did it, they wouldn't be a major craftworld (as far as 40k was concerned).

Craftworlds don't move through the Webway themselves. A gate large enough for them to travel (either into or out of) the Webway would be really hard to find/build. And then, we don't know if the Craftworld could survive the trip (a number of things in a Craftworld don't have precedence for being seperated from the Warp).

Most Craftworlders are too busy with more immediate concerns. If they don't handle those concerns today, they don't exist tomorrow.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 16:14:13


Post by: pm713


There's no reason that leaving the galaxy would mean leaving the Warp. The problem is that the Craftworlds don't have the power to leave our galaxy and get to a new one.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 16:17:51


Post by: Bharring


pm713 wrote:
There's no reason that leaving the galaxy would mean leaving the Warp. The problem is that the Craftworlds don't have the power to leave our galaxy and get to a new one.

I was referring to the Webway - isn't there lore that it's between the Materium and the Immaterium?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 16:47:58


Post by: pm713


Bharring wrote:
pm713 wrote:
There's no reason that leaving the galaxy would mean leaving the Warp. The problem is that the Craftworlds don't have the power to leave our galaxy and get to a new one.

I was referring to the Webway - isn't there lore that it's between the Materium and the Immaterium?

I think it's like tunnels of reality through the Warp or something. It's really weird which is appropriate.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/01/31 17:21:39


Post by: roboemperor


Eldar can't leave because they need access to crone worlds indefinitely.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/02 04:23:46


Post by: chromedog


Yup. The crone worlds are their ONLY source of waystones, without them, EVERY eldar that dies, has their soul consumed by Slaanesh.

The webway has some passages big enough for certain classes of starship, but the craftworlds themselves massively DWARF those ships. Imperial battleships can fit inside some of the domed structures on the craftworlds.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 02:23:06


Post by: roboemperor


What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

edit: They also ran off with Men of Iron stuff. So why is their tech worse than imperium of man?
edit2: Also there is literally no reason why they can't kidnap earth caste members and brainwash them into revealing their tech.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 02:29:49


Post by: JNAProductions


roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.
Silly Robo-Chaos can’t have nice things!

There’s really not a good one. There are some, but they all ring hollow.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 02:52:46


Post by: Gadzilla666


roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

Because then they would have nice things the loyalists can't. And the salt would flow.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 12:26:16


Post by: pm713


roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

edit: They also ran off with Men of Iron stuff. So why is their tech worse than imperium of man?
edit2: Also there is literally no reason why they can't kidnap earth caste members and brainwash them into revealing their tech.

They all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.

It's presumably difficult to just grab an earth caste scientist and even if you do they're incredibly brainwashed and would probably kill themselves. Reverse engineering cron tech is like expecting a cave man to reverse engineer a nuclear reactor.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 12:36:21


Post by: BrianDavion


pm713 wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

edit: They also ran off with Men of Iron stuff. So why is their tech worse than imperium of man?
edit2: Also there is literally no reason why they can't kidnap earth caste members and brainwash them into revealing their tech.

They all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.

It's presumably difficult to just grab an earth caste scientist and even if you do they're incredibly brainwashed and would probably kill themselves. Reverse engineering cron tech is like expecting a cave man to reverse engineer a nuclear reactor.


it's hard to do science when your petri dishes occasionally grow legs and crawl away


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 13:39:10


Post by: Tiennos


I suppose that all the scheming and backstabbing that comes with chaos doesn't encourage the sharing of ideas and knowledge.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 17:48:30


Post by: roboemperor


pm713 wrote:
[quote=roboemperor 783430 10709453 nullThey all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.


Aren't the Dark Mechanicum completely in charge of their own worlds?
And are the Dark Mechanicum just as backstabby as the rest? I thought they didn't give a damn about daemonic ascension and stuff and only care about tech.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 18:07:42


Post by: JNAProductions


roboemperor wrote:
pm713 wrote:
[quote=roboemperor 783430 10709453 nullThey all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.


Aren't the Dark Mechanicum completely in charge of their own worlds?
And are the Dark Mechanicum just as backstabby as the rest? I thought they didn't give a damn about daemonic ascension and stuff and only care about tech.
They're certainly not hunky-dory with each other, but it's hardly impossible for a single strong warmaster or warpsmith or someone else to take control of a Dark Forgeworld, or at least part of it, and unit their efforts.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/07 18:46:54


Post by: Mr Morden


 chromedog wrote:
Yup. The crone worlds are their ONLY source of waystones, without them, EVERY eldar that dies, has their soul consumed by Slaanesh.

The webway has some passages big enough for certain classes of starship, but the craftworlds themselves massively DWARF those ships. Imperial battleships can fit inside some of the domed structures on the craftworlds.


Craftworld Eldar yep...although:

Well def Slaanesh and co try to eat you.
If they die in the craftworld - can they not go straight into the infinity circuit.
You can move between the different Eldar kindreds - not sure how you say gain the thirst etc.
I assume that the Chaos Gods exist in the void betwen galaxies and in every galaxy but do they?

I suppose that all the scheming and backstabbing that comes with chaos doesn't encourage the sharing of ideas and knowledge.
it does - you just have to be the one being the most effective schemer and/or backstabber - see Skaven


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/11 11:04:19


Post by: Ernestas


I suppose that Eldars will just go straight to their infinity circuit. Thought, I wanted to show people how ridiculous their previous thinking was. You can't utilize gas giants and any other type of resource, because:

1) Wrong type of element.
2) Difficult gathering of said material.
3) Difficult extraction of said material.

Gas giants has absolutely massive gravity fields, anyone descending low enough is likely never going up unless expending far more energy than it had gained. Secondly, conditions in those giant planets are extreme. No race, not even old ones would be capable of establishing mining outposts there and mine with any sort of efficiency. Lastly, weapons of war, especially complex ones requires rare resources to harvest. What you are talking are very basic and common resources. They are useless to you in doing anything really. In order to make use of them you need to literally re-arrange electrons, protons and neutrons around manually and that will cost so much energy that you better just making one big laser and using that energy to blast entire star systems apart.


As why Chaos isn't innovating. Well, it is. There are many issues with Dark Mechanicus. Other posters had mentioned some, but those aren't really that important. Nobody in eye of terror are making equipment which only functions in warp, because if they do so, what are you going to use in real space? Even in Eye of Terror, level of unreality spilling into reality is mixed, so in some areas your ship might function and in other parts it might just fall apart. Why Chaos isn't innovating is simply GW treats Chaos poorly in general. Often they are degraded to saturday cartoon villains with plot devices. Sometimes Chaos feel like spikey, evil version of IG and Space marines. We need competent writer at GW to write actual Chaos lore.

Second reason is that they do in fact create their new stuff. For example, Chaos had developed completely new class of ship not seen even during glory days of W30k. This ship is called: Planet Killer and completely outclasses everything in W40k with perhaps things like Craftworlds, Blackstone Fortresses, Phalanx, etc. Then we have various demon engines who proved themselves to be more efficient beyond that Imperium mass produces. Things like Stalk tanks, Defilers, Helldrakes. They utilize level of science whole degree greater than that of an Imperium and Chaos technicians works on a same level, although a lot more primitively as Eldar do. It is like, Chaos just invented first electronic computers and Eldar have computers of today. Same tech, but one is vastly more advanced. Imperium in this analogy would only possess mechanical devices.

To Chaos, Tau tech would be one level lower than the tech they already possess, but Imperium and Chaos are feudal societies. That means that level of development and pretty much everything can vary greatly between sector to sector. For example, in one area of space, Imperial guard's most advanced tech can be lasgun or even degraded version of that. Their troops being reduced to horses for transportation and high tech like space ships are being sent by the God to them. While on other Imperial Guard troops can widely deploy plasma based weaponary which rivals Tau tech. Ryza world is a great example. Chaos is the same, one world is nothing more than bunch of mad fanatics and zealots running around and punching each other with clubs and looted ancient artifacts like stub guns and lasguns while other is highly technological advanced and industrialized world which fights in ordered formation and approaches world around it rationally.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/11 12:17:48


Post by: Not Online!!!


 JNAProductions wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.
Silly Robo-Chaos can’t have nice things!

There’s really not a good one. There are some, but they all ring hollow.


Looks at decimators and the "Hell" variety of fighters and bombers-


Whistles, nothing to see here loyalist, no that ain't a completely superior design, mass manufactuered and sold off for material, no idea what you are talking about.


(shame they don't perform on the table top, such nice models with good lore and yet they suck....)


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/11 20:01:03


Post by: Lord Damocles


 Ernestas wrote:
Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.

[At least some] Craftworlds need to gather power using their solar sails (this is what Alaitoc is doing in the terrible Path of the Eldar novels). Presumably there aren't many stars in interstellar space, so they'd eventually just be drifting aimlessly in the cold void.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/11 22:28:05


Post by: Gadzilla666


Not Online!!! wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.
Silly Robo-Chaos can’t have nice things!

There’s really not a good one. There are some, but they all ring hollow.


Looks at decimators and the "Hell" variety of fighters and bombers-


Whistles, nothing to see here loyalist, no that ain't a completely superior design, mass manufactuered and sold off for material, no idea what you are talking about.


(shame they don't perform on the table top, such nice models with good lore and yet they suck....)

Hey don't bad mouth the hellblade! It's great for getting within 18 for that first turn vox scream on a chapter master....


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/12 05:46:19


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
I suppose that Eldars will just go straight to their infinity circuit. Thought, I wanted to show people how ridiculous their previous thinking was. You can't utilize gas giants and any other type of resource, because:

1) Wrong type of element.
2) Difficult gathering of said material.
3) Difficult extraction of said material.

Gas giants has absolutely massive gravity fields, anyone descending low enough is likely never going up unless expending far more energy than it had gained. Secondly, conditions in those giant planets are extreme. No race, not even old ones would be capable of establishing mining outposts there and mine with any sort of efficiency. Lastly, weapons of war, especially complex ones requires rare resources to harvest. What you are talking are very basic and common resources. They are useless to you in doing anything really. In order to make use of them you need to literally re-arrange electrons, protons and neutrons around manually and that will cost so much energy that you better just making one big laser and using that energy to blast entire star systems apart.


Necrons can turn foes into specks of dwarf star matter or liquid adamantine.
Necrons have built Dyson Spheres. Did you know Dyson Spheres can never actually be built because the amount of resources and matter needed to construct one is far, far greater than the energy a dyson sphere can provide?
Necrons have fragments of stars compressed into significantly smaller orbs.
Necrons have the Celestial Orrey which not only spies the entire galaxy but can also blow up every star in it.

In such a universe, a at least 60+million year old alien species that is supposed to be the pinnacle of biotech, is stumped by GRAVITY? are you srs? Especially since their FTL travel is based on manipulating gravity?

 Ernestas wrote:
No race, not even old ones would be capable of establishing mining outposts there and mine with any sort of efficiency.


Necrons have built DYSON SPHERES. and WORLD ENGINES. And you're telling me they can't make a mining outpost by a gas giant?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/12 11:48:55


Post by: Iracundus


 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Ernestas wrote:
Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.

[At least some] Craftworlds need to gather power using their solar sails (this is what Alaitoc is doing in the terrible Path of the Eldar novels). Presumably there aren't many stars in interstellar space, so they'd eventually just be drifting aimlessly in the cold void.


In one of the Craftworld codices (don't have them handy to cite the exact reference), in the timeline section, there is mention of a group of Craftworlds being spotted together and then using the energy of some stars, draining them dry in the process, to go elsewhere. Where? Never said.

The 40K story is about one galaxy. So if any craftworlds did successfully leave the galaxy, they leave the 40K story effectively. Craftworlds run on psychic energy drawn through from the warp through the Infinity Circuits and then converted to more conventional stuff like light and heat. Though this is apparently supplemented by solar energy when possible like the Alaitoc example, it does not seem necessary since craftworlds can be in interstellar space in between star systems.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/13 12:01:26


Post by: Ernestas


Necrons have built DYSON SPHERES. and WORLD ENGINES. And you're telling me they can't make a mining outpost by a gas giant?


Yes, because those two things are utterly different and I should not be too concerned about old lore. There are a lot of nonsense there which ultimately invalidate any story if you consider it. Like with Tyranids. Why Tyranids are attacking planets if they can just eat gas giants? All the lore from this point is nonsense. In a same manner if necrons can destroy any star, we reach the level where any story which we would write for necrons will be just pure nonsense. Why? Because every time they would be fighting for something I would have to ask: why they simply do not blow up sun and then get whatever they want.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/13 13:19:03


Post by: Overread


Tyranids are shown to be more than just hungry. They clearly act to target and destroy specific threats. Eating gas giants might give them loads of food, but it doesn't take away resources as much from their enemies. So instead they attack planets, reducing them to being basically useless husks. Thus even if you defeat a Hive Fleet, the worlds its struck before are basically useless to most races.

This means that every time a Hive Fleet strikes into the Galaxy it leaves long lasting damage that would take vast resources and/or millennia to recover from.



I've long thought that the Tyranids we see right now are clearly a cleansing system designed to target specific strongpoints and eliminate them. With the overall long term goal of cleaning the Galaxy of any life that would threaten them. Thus leaving it safer for more "cow" like feeding ships to enter, able to feed at large and consume everything left. It might even be they leave rich gas giants now specifically for those ships to come through later. With the "warrior" ships feeding off worlds and the ready proceed foods there.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/13 13:58:10


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
Necrons have built DYSON SPHERES. and WORLD ENGINES. And you're telling me they can't make a mining outpost by a gas giant?


Yes, because those two things are utterly different and I should not be too concerned about old lore. There are a lot of nonsense there which ultimately invalidate any story if you consider it. Like with Tyranids. Why Tyranids are attacking planets if they can just eat gas giants? All the lore from this point is nonsense. In a same manner if necrons can destroy any star, we reach the level where any story which we would write for necrons will be just pure nonsense. Why? Because every time they would be fighting for something I would have to ask: why they simply do not blow up sun and then get whatever they want.


Trazyn and Solemnance is old lore? Despite his omnipresence in everything related to necron?

I'm sorry. At this point, i can't trust anything you say anymore. You keep making these sweeping baseless claims with no supporting evidence whatsoever, which is worsened by the fact that these sweeping baseless claims you make can be disproved simply by googling basic facts.

 Overread wrote:
Tyranids are shown to be more than just hungry. They clearly act to target and destroy specific threats. Eating gas giants might give them loads of food, but it doesn't take away resources as much from their enemies. So instead they attack planets, reducing them to being basically useless husks. Thus even if you defeat a Hive Fleet, the worlds its struck before are basically useless to most races.

This means that every time a Hive Fleet strikes into the Galaxy it leaves long lasting damage that would take vast resources and/or millennia to recover from.



I've long thought that the Tyranids we see right now are clearly a cleansing system designed to target specific strongpoints and eliminate them. With the overall long term goal of cleaning the Galaxy of any life that would threaten them. Thus leaving it safer for more "cow" like feeding ships to enter, able to feed at large and consume everything left. It might even be they leave rich gas giants now specifically for those ships to come through later. With the "warrior" ships feeding off worlds and the ready proceed foods there.


Or they were created by a c'tan who just wants organic life gone forever and the other celestial objects (especially stars) untouched for his consumption so he made them by design incapable of consuming celestial objects.

Too much is unknown about the tyranids to make any kind of guess.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/14 10:45:32


Post by: Ernestas


If you want to believe in nonsense like having technology to just blow up stars with hand gesture or tyranids eating entire planets, be my guess. This is exactly why people find W40k as a parody.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/14 13:41:21


Post by: DalekCheese


 Ernestas wrote:
If you want to believe in nonsense like having technology to just blow up stars with hand gesture or tyranids eating entire planets, be my guess. This is exactly why people find W40k as a parody.


*guest

And could you elaborate on clear examples of people thinking that modern 40k is satire/parody?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/16 03:41:53


Post by: roboemperor


 Ernestas wrote:
If you want to believe in nonsense like having technology to just blow up stars with hand gesture or tyranids eating entire planets, be my guess. This is exactly why people find W40k as a parody.


What? You do know that the Celestial Orrey appeared in the Fall of Cadia right?

And you do know this is SCIENCE FICTION right? Meaning any "nonsense" the authors want in their setting exists regardless whether YOU want to believe it or not. You're not an author.

I'm sorry, no offense but I'm gonna stop responding to your posts now. Responding to your baseless nonsensical claims you make with absolutely no research on your part on top of your incomprehensible ideology that somehow you have the authority to cut recent official canon lore simply because of your "belief" has derailed the thread too much and I want to get back to discussing random questions i have about the setting.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 17:22:31


Post by: roboemperor


Couple Questions about Chaos

1. How do they replenish their numbers? Daemons are infinite, but CSM are not. And Lucius the Immortal makes it sound like he's the exception not the norm, so if a CSM dies he dies for good. So how do they replenish?

Daemoncubula or w.e that's called seemed like a special case rather than the norm.

2. What happens when a Chaos guy decides to leave chaos? And Defy Chaos?
Like you're ordered to go on a suicide mission. You run away instead, and lets say you are such a skilled escape artist and combatant that you can escape. Can you escape and ditch chaos?
I know about Scaevolla and how the gods controlled his body into killing his would-be killer. But i'm talking about
a. cowardice and/or
b. insubordination
Where you prioritize your life over the goals of chaos.

3. How does possession feel like for the host?
a. I know it starts with maddenning whispers, but then what happens after?
b. After the Daemon fully takes over, is the host sentient and just powerlessly observes what the Daemon observes? Does the Daemon still communicate with the host? If not, what happens? Existence of Exorism shows the Host is not consumed or killed or anything like that.

4.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Daemon_Engine
According to this page, Daemon Engines cannot be built alone. But someone else claimed that it can. So can it or can it not? I don't have any chaos codices.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 17:45:36


Post by: Gadzilla666


Csm replenish their numbers in the same way as loyalists. Geneseed harvested from the dead is used to create new marines from prospective candidates. Csm are also known to steel geneseed from loyalists, either by harvesting it from defeated foes or sometimes by raiding fortress monasteries.

Renegades are also used to replenish the ranks. This is how the Red Corsairs have such a high number of marines.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 18:14:42


Post by: 1hadhq


Q 1:
- Cultists and other Traitors and Mutants are the core of chaos, not the CSM. Chaos uses a lot of cannonfodder and Demons.
- CSM are as rare as Space Marines. ( a million words - a million SM ) and they try their best to survive. No self sacrifice for anyone, no last stands etc. CSM tend to leave if they lose.

The main issue is, how do you replenish Chaos Legionaires of the Horus Heresy, because you can't. So people who insist on CSM = Traitors from the Heresy Era are making it harder than it has to be.
Chaos ruins the geneseed of the Space marines which fall to it and without geneseed you don't get a 100% functional Space Marine of Legion xyz but some Mutated something.
Some people think chaos just steals geneseed, but then the majority of CSM would be sooner or later based on Ultramarines with a few left over chaos Legionaires of the original Traitor legions. But you guys want to play Legio xyz and not XIII ...
Chaos doesn't use the Apothecaries as the loyalists do. Ever seen any of them?

Basically GW painted themselves into a corner. CSM would have to respawn like 40k was a video-game or have to use clones or almost useless mutants.
The Process of creating Space marines was the same for 20 Legions, then speed up to repelenish the high casualties of the great crusade, then kept the "old ways" for loyalists and left a bit in the dark for the traitors.
IMO the best idea is to let the marines ( of both flavors ) not die like flies so you can keep up with replenishment.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 19:25:50


Post by: Gadzilla666


All traitor astartes don't fall to chaos, however. Night Lords generally shun chaos and are known to have very stable geneseed.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 19:37:52


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Tyranids question piqued my interest here.

I’m guessing it’s mostly a matter of expedience. See, the main thing that the Hive Fleets need is biomass. Animal, vegetable, bacteriological. All of it is grist for the grinder. Not only can it be used to spawn further, extant strains of gribblies, but new and unique strains of DNA may, in turn, lead to new strains of gribblies, better adapted to specific jobs.

The water is of course drained because they need it, being biological in nature. Not the teeming swarms we’re most familiar with (if memory serves, they have basic, if any, digestive systems?) as they tend to be reabsorbed in the pools, but the Hive Fleets themselves.

So whilst rock can contain useful minerals (we need certain minerals in our diet, and some species uses minerals in their food to produce carapace and chitin etc), it’s entirely possible the effort needed to devour an entire planet, bedrock, mantle and core is just far more than the benefit gained.

Then, there’s the theory presented in the Cawl novel, that planets, over time, can establish new biospheres and in turn, ecosystems. This may be strengthened by suspicion that this isn’t the first time the Tyranids have visited our Galaxy. Some point to the Catachan Devil and other Deathworld flora and fauna as possible evidence of this. If so, leaving the planet itself intact means the banquet table will eventually self replenish.

It could also be sheer expedience. Planets are vast, and the number of organisms required to devour one therefore staggering.

Tyranid Fleets are at their most vulnerable when feeding. And there are a couple of instances of Imperial Battlegroups dealing them grievous damage when such an engagement has occurred. So even if scoffing the entire planet was feasible? It may simply not be desirable because of how long it would take.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 20:07:41


Post by: Overread


I'm of the opinion that the Tyranids are not simply feeding, they are engaging in war. As such they feed to replenish their numbers with the most readily present food sources, whilst at the same time denying that resource to the enemy. Gas Giants might have far more resources, but at the same time they are not as heavily populated nor used by the other races; but that really sweet tropical planet, that is.

Heck they might even leave the mineral resources there to tempt races into expensive recolonisation programs to access them.

I see the Tyranids as attempting to bleed the Galaxy dry for the races until such time as there is no viable opposition to the Tyranids. Then would be a time they could set in to feed without pause. When there is no other threat that can rise against them. Then you want to harvest those gas giants and the mineral worlds, suns and all to glut yourself ready for the next cold empty trip through space to the next feeding ground.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 20:29:12


Post by: solkan


roboemperor wrote:

2. What happens when a Chaos guy decides to leave chaos? And Defy Chaos?
Like you're ordered to go on a suicide mission. You run away instead, and lets say you are such a skilled escape artist and combatant that you can escape. Can you escape and ditch chaos?
I know about Scaevolla and how the gods controlled his body into killing his would-be killer. But i'm talking about
a. cowardice and/or
b. insubordination
Where you prioritize your life over the goals of chaos.


Part A: Leaving Chaos

It doesn't work out for anyone, and eventually either the good guys or the bad guys kill you. Or you convince a loyalist that you really, really mean it and you want to renounce Chaos, and they tell you to go on a suicide mission and kill yourself as penance.

Part B: Defying Chaos

You're a member of a CSM war band, and you think your boss is a jerk. If you get enough of your friends to agree with you, you either kill your boss or split off when you have the opportunity.

Part C: Cowardice

CSM forces have leadership scores that they actually use, unlike loyalists. Because they're more likely to be more interested in running away than death for a cause.

Part D: Where do new CSM come from?

There have been different answers given over the years:
- People like Fabius Bile making new CSM, either from bio-engineering, or stealing gene-seed. You don't need a fortress monastery on a planet to train new initiates, that's just "tradition". If some of the "cheating" CSM end up being second rate compared to traditional methods, well...
- New loyalists becoming traitors.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 20:34:59


Post by: Strat_N8


 Ernestas wrote:
So you think it is feasible for Tyranids to dry an entire gas giant dry?


They were in the process of doing so to Aeros during the Shield of Baal campaign.

While it isn't touched upon much in more recent fluff, some of the older background put more emphasis on the Tyranids being motivated more by the harvesting of genetic material from life-rich worlds than the yield of raw materials alone. I tend to prefer this version as the primary driving force since it makes more logical sense. Tyranids don't reproduce sexually (every organism is effectively cloned from an existing genetic template) so the primary means of expanding their genepool is through whatever useful traits the Norn Queens can absorb from prey (not something found in biology, but an ability found elsewhere in the setting so we can acknowledge it is at least consistent there) to combine with other templates.

Also this motivation is more consistent with the role of the Malanthrope as harvest overseers. Why have an organism dedicated to genetic sampling if the primary goal is just to feed the fleet?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/23 22:49:08


Post by: roboemperor


 Strat_N8 wrote:
 Ernestas wrote:
So you think it is feasible for Tyranids to dry an entire gas giant dry?


They were in the process of doing so to Aeros during the Shield of Baal campaign.

While it isn't touched upon much in more recent fluff, some of the older background put more emphasis on the Tyranids being motivated more by the harvesting of genetic material from life-rich worlds than the yield of raw materials alone. I tend to prefer this version as the primary driving force since it makes more logical sense. Tyranids don't reproduce sexually (every organism is effectively cloned from an existing genetic template) so the primary means of expanding their genepool is through whatever useful traits the Norn Queens can absorb from prey (not something found in biology, but an ability found elsewhere in the setting so we can acknowledge it is at least consistent there) to combine with other templates.

Also this motivation is more consistent with the role of the Malanthrope as harvest overseers. Why have an organism dedicated to genetic sampling if the primary goal is just to feed the fleet?


Amazing find. So they can gobble gas giants. So the only thing left is if they can gobble an entire planet all the way to its core.

 solkan wrote:
roboemperor wrote:

2. What happens when a Chaos guy decides to leave chaos? And Defy Chaos?
Like you're ordered to go on a suicide mission. You run away instead, and lets say you are such a skilled escape artist and combatant that you can escape. Can you escape and ditch chaos?
I know about Scaevolla and how the gods controlled his body into killing his would-be killer. But i'm talking about
a. cowardice and/or
b. insubordination
Where you prioritize your life over the goals of chaos.


Part A: Leaving Chaos

It doesn't work out for anyone, and eventually either the good guys or the bad guys kill you. Or you convince a loyalist that you really, really mean it and you want to renounce Chaos, and they tell you to go on a suicide mission and kill yourself as penance.

Part B: Defying Chaos

You're a member of a CSM war band, and you think your boss is a jerk. If you get enough of your friends to agree with you, you either kill your boss or split off when you have the opportunity.

Part C: Cowardice

CSM forces have leadership scores that they actually use, unlike loyalists. Because they're more likely to be more interested in running away than death for a cause.

Part D: Where do new CSM come from?

There have been different answers given over the years:
- People like Fabius Bile making new CSM, either from bio-engineering, or stealing gene-seed. You don't need a fortress monastery on a planet to train new initiates, that's just "tradition". If some of the "cheating" CSM end up being second rate compared to traditional methods, well...
- New loyalists becoming traitors.



Part A: I just want to know if the chaos gods are gonna smite the deserter with spawndom or something or if they'll leave the deserter alone.
Part B: Same thing. I konw they can kill their chaos lord in a mutiny. But can they desert without repercussions from the gods themselves? Hunting parties can be taken care of with skillz. A god smiting you can't.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Tyranids question piqued my interest here.

I’m guessing it’s mostly a matter of expedience. See, the main thing that the Hive Fleets need is biomass. Animal, vegetable, bacteriological. All of it is grist for the grinder. Not only can it be used to spawn further, extant strains of gribblies, but new and unique strains of DNA may, in turn, lead to new strains of gribblies, better adapted to specific jobs.

The water is of course drained because they need it, being biological in nature. Not the teeming swarms we’re most familiar with (if memory serves, they have basic, if any, digestive systems?) as they tend to be reabsorbed in the pools, but the Hive Fleets themselves.

So whilst rock can contain useful minerals (we need certain minerals in our diet, and some species uses minerals in their food to produce carapace and chitin etc), it’s entirely possible the effort needed to devour an entire planet, bedrock, mantle and core is just far more than the benefit gained.

Then, there’s the theory presented in the Cawl novel, that planets, over time, can establish new biospheres and in turn, ecosystems. This may be strengthened by suspicion that this isn’t the first time the Tyranids have visited our Galaxy. Some point to the Catachan Devil and other Deathworld flora and fauna as possible evidence of this. If so, leaving the planet itself intact means the banquet table will eventually self replenish.

It could also be sheer expedience. Planets are vast, and the number of organisms required to devour one therefore staggering.

Tyranid Fleets are at their most vulnerable when feeding. And there are a couple of instances of Imperial Battlegroups dealing them grievous damage when such an engagement has occurred. So even if scoffing the entire planet was feasible? It may simply not be desirable because of how long it would take.


The make-or-break question here is, are they doing it because it's more efficient, or are they doing it because they are incapable of it. Case A: they're awesome. Case B: They're pathetic. Well at least not as pathetic as I thought they were because Gas Giants make up a good portion of the galaxy. And no reason they can't make bio-dysonspheres. So many organic things use sunlight for energy.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/27 18:13:03


Post by: -Guardsman-


Do tyranids have bones? Or do they have exoskeletons, like insects?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/27 20:06:27


Post by: Lord Damocles


-Guardsman- wrote:
Do tyranids have bones? Or do they have exoskeletons, like insects?

Genestealers (and hybrids) have skulls... so both..?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 13:18:27


Post by: pm713


 Lord Damocles wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Do tyranids have bones? Or do they have exoskeletons, like insects?

Genestealers (and hybrids) have skulls... so both..?

I'm pretty sure it's both.

IIRC Tyranids have really weird bodies. They're basically enough skeleton and muscle to hold together, more muscle, armour and some organs that basically hold meat.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 16:15:38


Post by: Dai


pm713 wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Do tyranids have bones? Or do they have exoskeletons, like insects?

Genestealers (and hybrids) have skulls... so both..?

I'm pretty sure it's both.

IIRC Tyranids have really weird bodies. They're basically enough skeleton and muscle to hold together, more muscle, armour and some organs that basically hold meat.


Which begs the question, what does a tyranid taste like?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 17:37:45


Post by: roboemperor


How come there aren't any tyranid ork hybrid? Everything about orks is genetic, tyranids have sampled an immense amount of ork flesh. So why can't tyranids loot scrap, make things work just by willing it, and make tyranid primarchs?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 18:23:19


Post by: flandarz


Some things require an actual Ork mind to work (such as the mentioned "it works because we believe it does" thing). Give a Nid an Ork mentality and the Hive Mind will lose control of them. That's just how Orkz are. You think a Hive Tyrant wants to have to krump some Hormagaunts to keep them in line?

I also believe that Nids already possess a lot of the "good" Ork biological features anyway. Hard to put down? Check. Big and buff? Check. What else would the Hive Mind want from them?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 18:57:52


Post by: roboemperor


 flandarz wrote:
Some things require an actual Ork mind to work (such as the mentioned "it works because we believe it does" thing). Give a Nid an Ork mentality and the Hive Mind will lose control of them. That's just how Orkz are. You think a Hive Tyrant wants to have to krump some Hormagaunts to keep them in line?

I also believe that Nids already possess a lot of the "good" Ork biological features anyway. Hard to put down? Check. Big and buff? Check. What else would the Hive Mind want from them?


It's not mentality that brings things to function. It's their warp magic. No reason any synapse creature can't intentionally manipulate the warp so that it works the way they want to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one of the Beast Orks curbstomp an entire army of heirophants? And they had titans bigger than emperor class titans. I haven't seen tyranids achieve any feat remotely close to the orks.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 19:12:55


Post by: Tyran


roboemperor wrote:

It's not mentality that brings things to function. It's their warp magic. No reason any synapse creature can't intentionally manipulate the warp so that it works the way they want to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one of the Beast Orks curbstomp an entire army of heirophants? And they had titans bigger than emperor class titans. I haven't seen tyranids achieve any feat remotely close to the orks.


Tyranid synapse creatures already bend the warp and laws of physics, what do you think Tyranid psychic powers and some fleet traits like Leviathan are supposed to represent? That being said the Leviathan Hive Fleet that gorged itself on Ork biomass during the Octarius war is noted to be producing larger and more powerful creatures than previously recorded.

roboemperor wrote:How come there aren't any tyranid ork hybrid? Everything about orks is genetic, tyranids have sampled an immense amount of ork flesh. So why can't tyranids loot scrap, make things work just by willing it, and make tyranid primarchs?


Genestealer-Ork hybrids are a thing, even if the Orks are very good at hunting them down.

roboemperor wrote:
The make-or-break question here is, are they doing it because it's more efficient, or are they doing it because they are incapable of it. Case A: they're awesome. Case B: They're pathetic. Well at least not as pathetic as I thought they were because Gas Giants make up a good portion of the galaxy. And no reason they can't make bio-dysonspheres. So many organic things use sunlight for energy.


In Devastation of Baal it is noted that the Tyranids are ignoring mineral resources because the IoM is a buffet. There is no point in mining mineral sources when human machinery and infrastructure are basically refined mineral supplements to them, so the Tyranids are eating less of each world to move faster.

And of course Leviathan leaves worlds untouched for other Hive Fleets, more notably Kronos that is otherwise a negative resource sink in its fights against Chaos. So yeah Tyranids can choose to not eat or eat less based on strategic concerns in their invasion of the galaxy.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 19:18:06


Post by: roboemperor


Tyran wrote:
In Devastation of Baal it is noted that the Tyranids are ignoring mineral resources the IoM is a buffet. There is no point in mining mineral sources when human technology is basically refined mineral supplements to them, so the Tyranids are eating less of each world to move faster.

And of course Leviathan leaves worlds untouched for other Hive Fleets, more notably Kronos that is otherwise a negative resource sink in its fights against Chaos. So yeah Tyranids can choose to not eat or eat less based on strategic concerns in their invasion of the galaxy.


Could you do me a huge favor and tell me about Aeros in those books? I don't have it and I need to know, did the Tyranids
a. Attempt to consume the gas giant before it got blown up. or
b. Just ate the space colonies surrounding the gas giant.

I'm getting mixed reports online. One source says they consumed it and now it's a dead world. Another source says nothing about whether they tried to nom it or not but it was definitely blown up and destroyed most of the fleet.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 19:26:57


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Tyran wrote:
roboemperor wrote:Genestealer-Ork hybrids are a thing, even if the Orks are very good at hunting them down.

Are these still a thing? I thought they hadn't featured since 2nd or 3rd Ed? Are they in recent fluff/lore?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 19:30:31


Post by: Tyran


 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Are these still a thing? I thought they hadn't featured since 2nd or 3rd Ed? Are they in recent fluff/lore?


Yes, they are an important part of Kryptman's gambit. They are also mentioned in the latest GSC codex (including a six-limbed gargant full of Genestealers).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 19:31:00


Post by: flandarz


Ork "warp shenanigans" are fueled by "crowd mentality". As mentioned, Nids have something similar as well. But to do the things Orkz do requires that Orky mindset. You can't just say "I believe red is faster" and make it work. You actually HAVE to believe it. And not just you, but every other Ork in the galaxy. And that's a lot of Orkz, since they're the most numerous species in the galaxy.

Depending on the source, the Hive Mind is either the collective consciousness of all Nids, or a separate entity. In the former case, individual Nids don't really have the sapience required to fuel a "crowd mentality" power like the Waagh (most of them require a Synapse creature nearby to not go "feral"). In the latter, even a powerful consciousness like the Hive Mind or Big E is still a single consciousness and still wouldn't be able to create a "crowd mentality" effect.

As mentioned, the Nids who survived Octarius are bigger than normal now, so they DID get something. But it's still a matter of the Nids possessing many of the racial advantages of the Orkz already. And, bear in mind, that Warbosses and other gigantic Orkz (like the Beast) are that way because of both the Waagh AND surviving tons of fights. Nids are regularly recycled, so the Ork "get bigger" genome wouldn't help them all top much.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 19:49:19


Post by: DalekCheese


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Tyran wrote:
roboemperor wrote:Genestealer-Ork hybrids are a thing, even if the Orks are very good at hunting them down.

Are these still a thing? I thought they hadn't featured since 2nd or 3rd Ed? Are they in recent fluff/lore?


They haven’t been mentioned recently AFAIK, but I don’t think they’ve been specifically retconned either.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/02/28 20:07:26


Post by: Tyran


roboemperor wrote:


Could you do me a huge favor and tell me about Aeros in those books? I don't have it and I need to know, did the Tyranids
a. Attempt to consume the gas giant before it got blown up. or
b. Just ate the space colonies surrounding the gas giant.

I'm getting mixed reports online. One source says they consumed it and now it's a dead world. Another source says nothing about whether they tried to nom it or not but it was definitely blown up and destroyed most of the fleet.

Sorry I have Devastation of Baal, not Shield of Baal.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/03/03 12:53:17


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius



Based on silhouettes and such, what class are these ships escorting the Rock likely to be? Cruisers?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/03/07 13:16:32


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


How would you guys see the Horus Heresy starting had Salamanders, Iron Hands and Raven Guard been informed early in advance before reaching Istvan V that the Iron Warriors, The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers have all turned traitor as well?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/03/07 13:28:00


Post by: evil_kiwi_60


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
How would you guys see the Horus Heresy starting had Salamanders, Iron Hands and Raven Guard been informed early in advance before reaching Istvan V that the Iron Warriors, The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers have all turned traitor as well?


Put simply, Horus can’t win if he has to face an even number or loyalists marines. Presumably the would be shattered legions would break warp early and regroup at Terra. It took several years for Horus to reach Terra even with a legionare advantage. Worst case for the loyalist, you double the defenders on Terra itself meaning the siege would be fairly one sided. The Imperial Fists would also be far more strengthened since they wouldn’t take the losses at Phall. Considering that the initial 4 traitor legion took between 25-33% losses at Istvaan III, Horus would be behind the 8 ball.

Calth would not happen either since a warning could be sent to Ultramar. There’s also a good chance of one of those legions reinforcing the 500 worlds lessening the losses from the Word Bearers and World Eaters bash brothers party.

The Blood Angles and Thousand Sons are still screwed since they’re not linked to the rest of events at the start. There’s also little change for the white scars in this scenario also.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/03/07 18:09:17


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


Also did Perturabo's ability to see the Eye of Terror give him any advantages whatsoever? It would be weird for him to bw given an ability that only served to make him paranoid crazy about seeing something everyone else will deny seeing.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/03/31 16:02:56


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


Where is this quote by Admiral Spire from?


''We are defenders of Humanity,

We are the Emperor's blazing sword

and Imperium's crushing fist!

Hundreds of billions of hands are ready to die

For our mission in the cold, unforgiving space.

We are the Imperial Navy!''

I would like to know the source to this quote.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/03/31 16:33:10


Post by: Tyran


From one of the two BFG:A games, as he only appears in them.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/04/01 15:01:55


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


How large is an Imperial Fist regiment? I read that upon reunification with the Emperor and his Legion, Dorn left some second in command on Inwit to raise 30 regiments of Imperial Fists.

Taking in the legion size of 100000 Astartes and dividing that by 30 gives a little bit over 3000 as an absolute maximum.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/06 20:05:24


Post by: roboemperor


Are there any stories where Genestealer Cults aren't nommed by Tyranids but instead work alongside each other?

Are there any Genestealers Cultists with hair?

Do Genestealer Cultists die of old age?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/06 21:55:43


Post by: Arson Fire


roboemperor wrote:
Are there any stories where Genestealer Cults aren't nommed by Tyranids but instead work alongside each other?

The Tyranids will usually ignore the cultists until the local defenders are eliminated, before turning on them. Meanwhile the cultists are eagerly trying to help their gods. So in a way they work alongside each other, if only briefly.

However there is some newer fluff in the current codex where in at least one case, for some reason the tyranids have not eaten the cult following the consumption of a world, and instead the cultists have boarded cargo haulers and followed the tyranids back into space to fly alongside the hive fleet, and invade other worlds with them.

There's also the case of hive fleet Tiamat.
Unlike the usual nomadic hive fleets, Tiamat has settled on a planet, on which they appear to be building some kind of immense fleshy structure. They defend the planet so ferociously that the imperium has just left them to it, but the Tyranids apparently allow genestealer cultists to visit.
Cultists from nearby worlds undergo pilgrimages to the planet, where any who touch the structure come under its control, and tell the others to become missionaries and spread the creed of Tiamat far and wide.

roboemperor wrote:

Are there any Genestealers Cultists with hair?

Genestealer DNA and hair is like oil and water. Does not mix.
More seriously though, large portions of a cult are actually just mind controlled but otherwise genetically normal humans. Or perhaps not even mind controlled but just caught up in revolutionary fervour against their oppressive government. So those brood brothers could have hair.

roboemperor wrote:

Do Genestealer Cultists die of old age?

Genestealers themselves can survive for centuries. It's how they drift around on space hulks, they can hibernate for hundreds of years if they have to.
However I haven't read anything saying how much of that longevity gets passed along to hybrids.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/06 22:08:45


Post by: Overread


It should be noted that Tyranids use the cult just like an extension of their own broods. They don't so much "turn" on a cult as they simply consume and render the bodies of its broods down when they are no longer needed.

Of course those in the cult not under the direct mind control of the Hive Mind might well end up deciding that they don't actually want to die and could turn on the Tyranids. Of course this would leave them without a leadership structure and likely fragmented as their former cult leaders would seek to weaken their own forces before being devoured (so as to best ensure any uprising is ineffective - remembering that this happens after the system is taken over).


Preserving cults is a valid move for the Tyranids. Cults can infest worlds long before the main hive. They can cause confusion and fear; disrupt defence systems etc... There's a lot of benefits to keeping a cult or its leadership alive to spread the cult to other worlds.

There's even Cults that have risen up and not attracted a Hive fleet. The Cult simply continuing to grow and grow covering more and more systems.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 13:17:24


Post by: roboemperor


Does anything spawn rippers other than Norn Queens and the Parasite from Mordrax?

Do Tervigons spawn gaunts from biomass they consume, or do they just carry a bunch of fetal gaunts inside it, grow them, and unleash them and can run out of gaunts? So basically, are they factories or storage units?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 14:01:57


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


That in itself isn’t especially clear

Hormagaunts are noted as being able to reproduce independently of a Hive Fleet. Indeed, eggs left behind once a Hive Fleet has been driven off continue to cause problems for years to come.

Whether there’s any potential for those to grow into other things is unclear. There’s also the question as to whether Rippers are indeed a separate species, or simply juvenile versions of regular weapon beasts.

Tervigons? If memory serves, the Gaunts within are already fully grown, being held in biostasis until awakened.

Given they’re vanguard beasts, it seems possible they can grow new Gaunts - but it’s hard to see them lasting long enough for such a contingency to be necessary?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 20:07:58


Post by: Tyran


A few gants growing wings and escaping enclosure into the wild led to a planet being overwhelmed and Tyranid spores can turn flora into Tyranid incubators.

Tyranids have a lot of reproductive methods.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 20:17:18


Post by: roboemperor


 Tyran wrote:
Tyranids have a lot of reproductive methods.


See, I want to know about all of these methods. Because the research I found simply says Norn-Queen or bust. Like this one.

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Hive_Fleet_Gorgon
"the Tyranids no longer possessed any reproductive capacity on Kel'shan save for a single Dominatrix and a group of already-battered Tervigons."

Dominatrices has Norn-Queens in it.

So we have Gaunts reproducing by itself, Rippers metamorphing into anything (unknown if anything spawns Rippers), Norn-Queens mass producing Tyranids, and that's it.

Do you have a source on that Gaunt growing wings and escaping in the wild? I want to read more about it!


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 20:34:23


Post by: Arson Fire


roboemperor wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
Tyranids have a lot of reproductive methods.


See, I want to know about all of these methods. Because the research I found simply says Norn-Queen or bust. Like this one.

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Hive_Fleet_Gorgon
"the Tyranids no longer possessed any reproductive capacity on Kel'shan save for a single Dominatrix and a group of already-battered Tervigons."

Dominatrices has Norn-Queens in it.

So we have Gaunts reproducing by itself, Rippers metamorphing into anything (unknown if anything spawns Rippers), Norn-Queens mass producing Tyranids, and that's it.

Do you have a source on that Gaunt growing wings and escaping in the wild? I want to read more about it!


For that you're after Imperial Armour Volume 4: The Anphelion Project.
The imperium captures a bunch of lesser tyranids, like gaunts, and takes them to a remote research outpost on a jungle world. There they put them into large pens for study.
The tyranids respond to this confinement by starting to grow wings. By the time the research outpost spots this, it's too late. The tyranids break out and overrun the outpost.

The rescue team shows up some time later, only to find that the tyranids have spawned an army containing everything from hive tyrants to bio-titans.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 21:23:05


Post by: roboemperor


Arson Fire wrote:
For that you're after Imperial Armour Volume 4: The Anphelion Project.
The imperium captures a bunch of lesser tyranids, like gaunts, and takes them to a remote research outpost on a jungle world. There they put them into large pens for study.
The tyranids respond to this confinement by starting to grow wings. By the time the research outpost spots this, it's too late. The tyranids break out and overrun the outpost.

The rescue team shows up some time later, only to find that the tyranids have spawned an army containing everything from hive tyrants to bio-titans.


Amazing! Thanks!

So from what I can gather, Gaunts evolved wings, flew somewhere, evolved ways to reproduce, and then annihilated the planet.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 21:39:20


Post by: Overread


From what I recall rippers contain within them the genes of the gaunt strains and can evolve into gaunts when fed sufficient food. I believe they can also spawn in pools.


Norn Queens are the only creatures capable of creating totally new genetic code sequences within the Swarm. They can create totally new life forms as well as birth the greater and bigger creatures and higher tier monsters.

Meanwhile many other strains can reproduce themselves, even if it means they remain in a fairly feral state (eg hormagaunts if they reproduce more of themselves are just producing more gaunts with no synapse creature to help lead them).

Genestealers are famous for reproducing themselves by using humans as hosts. Even one can start off a Genestealer Cult. Though this infiltration breeding takes something like 4 generations to produce purestrain genestealers. All leading up to that are mutations that get part way and then mutate a bit; ending up trapped part way.


With tergivons don't forget that a termagaunt held in a state of non-birth stasis might be tiny within the creature. Perhaps only a tiny egg that the tervigon can gestate in a very short span of time. So food consumed might well allow it to gestate and produce "more" even though they have a finite number within them. Then again they might have a finite carrying capacity, but be able to create more base eggs for gestation as well.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/07 22:16:10


Post by: roboemperor


 Overread wrote:
From what I recall rippers contain within them the genes of the gaunt strains and can evolve into gaunts when fed sufficient food. I believe they can also spawn in pools.


Rippers can turn into Hive Tyrants as well.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/09 12:25:41


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


How many human worlds were left unconquered when Horus Heresy started?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/09 18:35:52


Post by: Tyran


Unknown, we don't even know the actual size of the IoM.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/10 22:40:40


Post by: Andersp90


roboemperor wrote:

See, I want to know about all of these methods. Because the research I found simply says Norn-Queen or bust. Like this one.


From 8th edition:

Spoiler:
"THE GHORALA SWARM
In their search, a handful of Leviathan’s scout ships happened across the world of Ghorala, a planet rich in biomass and base to Skarfang, Pirate-Warboss of the dreaded Skar Fleet. This mighty, if ramshackle, armada fell upon the bio-ships before they could react. The Tyranid fleet was all but destroyed under Skarfang’s guns. However, amidst the carnage, a single bio-ship broke through the Ork blockade, pouncing on the planet as a starving man might snatch at a scrap of bread. Alien blood and viscera spilt into the vacuum of space, but in its death throes the bio-ship delivered several broods of Tyranids to the world’s surface. Skarfang grew glum as he realised the battle was over, and he resolved to join the fight on Octaria, as the few Tyranids that had made planetfall were soon stomped out.

THE SWARM SURVIVES
For the first time since the Tyranids had invaded the Octarius Sector, they found themselves embroiled in a war where they were vastly outnumbered by their prey. Skarfang’s horde was mighty, and somehow, the Tyranids sensed that a war of attrition would only end in their demise.
In response, the Ghorala swarm adapted in order to survive. At first, the Tyranids stalked and preyed upon isolated Ork patrols, but the greenskins soon took to scouring the landscape in mobs too large for the fledgling swarm to face. Forced to abandon their guerrilla war, the Tyranids adopted an altogether more cunning strategy and engaged the Orks in the open. The Tyranids attacked without thought of survival, every action aimed at maximising the carnage. Despite the Tyranids’ frenzied attacks, the Orks’ superior numbers gave them the advantage in these brutal skirmishes. Whenever the Tyranids were on the verge of being overrun, they would, in eerie unison, switch from hyperactive slaughter to hasty retreat. The Tyranids lurked in nearby cavern complexes or else burrowed beneath the soil to shelter from pursuant search parties. In the dead of night, synapse creatures re-mustered the scattered swarms to the corpse-choked battlefield. There, the Tyranids fed on Ork cadavers and Tyranid carcasses alike, before returning to digestion pools secreted in the planet’s rocky mesas. Slowly but surely, the Tyranids’ numbers started to grow.

SKARFANG’S FURY
As the Tyranid forces swelled, they changed their methodology yet again, growing more aggressive and seeking out ever larger concentrations of Orks. Though the Tyranids’ reward for their victories was ever-increasing masses of bio-resources, the increased violence soon attracted the bored Skarfang to the surface to join the fray. Wherever Skarfang’s guttural war cries were heard, the Orks attacked with renewed vigour. Even when the Tyranids looked to be on the cusp of victory, the Warboss was able to turn the tide, bellowing blood-curdling threats that encouraged his Boyz to get stuck back in. The Tyranids were being pushed back by the resurgent Ork front; slowly the swarm was being trampled to death. Despite the Tyranids’ earlier success, there was little chance that they could face a united Ork force of such magnitude and survive. Whilst Skarfang lived, the Ghorala swarm was doomed.

DIVIDE AND CONSUME
In response, the Tyranids created Lictors with the express purpose of eliminating the Ork Warboss. Within days, the Lictors had tracked their eminent quarry, but Skarfang’s packs of squig hounds foiled all attempts to get close enough to assassinate their target. Although eternally patient, lying in wait for a chance to strike down their target was a luxury the starving swarm could ill afford. So instead, they created an opportunity.
Following pheromone trails, a scuttling tide of Hormagaunts was thrown at the Ork lines. As the Orks roused to man their rusty barricades, Tyranid Warriors willed the scuttling masses to withdraw. Skarfang’s frustration rose to infuriation as the Tyranids repeated these feints, approaching from different directions to within an arm’s length, then withdrawing before the Orks could retaliate. On the tenth such retreat, Skarfang’s temper could take no more. With a roar, the Warboss ordered his mobs to pursue the retreating swarms. Soon, black smoke was belching skywards as Battlewagons and Trukks rumbled after the swarm. The Tyranids had succeeded in goading the Warboss, separating him from the bulk of his forces and luring him into an ambush.
The Tyranids had spawned broods of Venomthropes to blanket the greenskins in a thick, toxic fog. As the Orks pursued their quarry, they rode headlong into the sudden, blinding mist. The entire convoy ground to a halt as vehicles skidded into rocky outcrops or else lost control and ploughed into each other. Coughing and hacking, those Orks that hadn’t choked on their own blood pulled themselves from the wreckage. Skarfang himself stumbled across the battlefield and happened across the tentacled beasts responsible for creating the noxious cloud. As he vented his anger on the venomous creatures, the fog receded and the eviscerated corpses of Orks surrounded the Warboss. Lictors had stalked through the blinding cloud and despatched the unwary greenskins one at a time until only Skarfang remained. The Lictors closed on their true quarry, surrounding the Warboss in deathly silence. Revving his chainblade into life, Skarfang charged the nearest with a roar of defiance. He managed two steps before a dozen mantis-like claws pierced his form and tore him asunder.
With Skarfang dead, it was not long before vying Ork bosses started fighting amongst
themselves to fill the power vacuum. The Orks were soon divided, and the disparate bands became easy prey to the united Tyranid swarm. Each was isolated and destroyed in quick succession, and within days, the Orks on Ghorala had been slaughtered like cattle. The Tyranids gorged themselves on their flesh.

THE SWARM REBORN
From the digested remains of Ghorala, the swarm created new bio-ships and set forth to rejoin the hive fleet at Octaria, the biomass it had consumed destined to fuel the next phase of planetary invasion."


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 00:32:32


Post by: Hellebore


That raises more questions than it answers....

Originally a bio ship was birthed by a hive ship, which makes sense given how massive they are.

It's all well and good to say 'the swarm created new bio ships' but how exactly can they do that?

There's nothing large enough to birth one, they don't assemble them out of bits and they can't just emerge from a digestion pool (which would have to be kilometres in length anyway).

That sounds like a lazy 'and they emerged victorious and did the thing that allowed them to leave, and they did'.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 00:45:23


Post by: Arson Fire


Hellebore wrote:
That raises more questions than it answers....

Originally a bio ship was birthed by a hive ship, which makes sense given how massive they are.

It's all well and good to say 'the swarm created new bio ships' but how exactly can they do that?

There's nothing large enough to birth one, they don't assemble them out of bits and they can't just emerge from a digestion pool (which would have to be kilometres in length anyway).

That sounds like a lazy 'and they emerged victorious and did the thing that allowed them to leave, and they did'.


Presumably they grow. I don't see why a newly spawned hive ship has to be at its full size.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 01:15:43


Post by: Hellebore


Arson Fire wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
That raises more questions than it answers....

Originally a bio ship was birthed by a hive ship, which makes sense given how massive they are.

It's all well and good to say 'the swarm created new bio ships' but how exactly can they do that?

There's nothing large enough to birth one, they don't assemble them out of bits and they can't just emerge from a digestion pool (which would have to be kilometres in length anyway).

That sounds like a lazy 'and they emerged victorious and did the thing that allowed them to leave, and they did'.


Presumably they grow. I don't see why a newly spawned hive ship has to be at its full size.


It doesn't. The BFG armada fleet list describes their fleets as being composed of immature hive ships, escort drones, kraken drones etc.

But even the smallest escort in 40k is over a kilometre in length and they are born right out of hive ships, which can be anywhere from battleship size to Phalanx fortress sized:

BFG armada pg 80 wrote:
Hive ships
These void-swimming behemoths act as primary nodes for the Hive Mind and direct the activity of the entire swarm. Hive ships function as living mother ships, bio-factory vessels breeding and hatching endless swarms of Tyranids to pursue prey across void and planet alike. Though most swarms will typically contain more than one hive ship, in some circles it is believed that there is still a single ship that maintains central control of the entire collective and acts to coordinate the assault, though this cannot be confirmed. There are also unsubstantiated reports that there are a very small number of hive ships in every swarm that are much more massive than the rest. Dwarfing even great battleships, these immeasurably vast
creatures arrive very late in the process of planetary assimilation and are believed to be those responsible for the method by which even the atmosphere and oceans are consumed from orbit, as the final stage of the world’s consumption by the hive fleet. Though such a gargantuan organism would explain how once lush and fertile worlds are left barren, airless and sterile, there are as of yet no recorded sightings of such a monstrous creature.

Kraken, Cruisers and Droneships
These bio-ships range in size from comparable to the escorts of other races to massive ships nearly the equal in size of the hive ships they accompany. Ever evolving, some of these creatures of the void are called Kraken, named after the hive fleet in which they first appeared, identified as specialized biological entities which accompany hive ships in a swarm and defeat each new foe they encounter. Hive ships are known to respond to new threats by birthing more of these Kraken to overwhelm the defences of any sentient race or hapless world they encounter.


No land based tyranid is large enough to birth an escort sized space ship. the biggest tyranid bioforms we know of are their biotitans, which are in the 10s of metres range. Unless we're expected to believe a tervigon-heirophant hybrid birthed a space ship that was only at most 30 metres long...




Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 02:58:55


Post by: Arson Fire


Sorry, but I still don't see how this isn't easily explained by the ships starting very small. Even if they're kilometers in length at full size.
I mean you could have a larval hive ship spawned that's the size of a termagant, and that just lives in a brood nest until it's grown enough to start flying.

For that matter, we don't know how just how large the womb caverns in brood nests can get. The brood nests we used to have models for were small ones that just produced gaunts. But maybe there are also giant ones for producing larger creatures.
Hive fleet Tiamat shows the tyranids are quite capable of creating mega-structures the size of continents, so a nest a kilometer or two in length doesn't seem like such a stretch in comparison.

While it's not something GW has elaborated on much, it's pretty easy to come up with explanations.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 03:41:12


Post by: Hellebore


We definitely can come up with our own explanations, but they're just that.

I mean I could go back to the original story any say 'the bio ship crashlanded and remained in a dying state until the nids could heal it up by bringing back biomass. It could then take off/birth a new one for them to escape.'

But that's not what the story describes, hence my issue.

It's been inferred that bioships are not simple to make and although rippers can represent the larval stages of a range of bioforms, there's no evidence than tyranids have all the different strains in their DNA like orks do, so they produce any type of nid.

Certainly if tyranids can reproduce space ships via rippers, there would be a lot more space ships than is currently depicted. The hive ship birthing whole other ships is part of the limitation on tyranids.

I don't think it's a good direction to make everything capable of becoming everything else or producing whatever they want.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 04:00:05


Post by: Arson Fire


The thing is that GW has already implied that this is all possible. They've put a bunch of bugs on a planet with no hive ships around, and then said that they made it back into space.
They've just left the mechanics of 'how' it's possible vague.

Until more information is provided, all we can do is fill in the blanks using the simplest means possible.

Personally I think it makes little sense that tyranids are 100% stuck on a planet once the hive ships are gone. They got up there somehow in the first place, and I see little reason to assume they've lost that capability.
It's probably more efficient to create the ships in space, but if forced to do so I honestly find it a stretch to say they couldn't create them on the ground.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 04:14:49


Post by: roboemperor


Anphelion Project has escaped gaunts spawning hierophants so there is little sense in saying they can't make hive ships.

BFG2 suggests they create bio-shipyards. Makes sense since tiamet is making a bio-mega-structure.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 04:45:47


Post by: Hellebore


Anphelion is a weird one and it undermines the point of hive queens. It undermines the point of the differential breeds and hierarchy in the swarm to begin with.

If we consider that canon, then sure, Tyranids can just squeeze out whatever they want for the sake of plot. It makes them really boring though.

If gaunts can breed with each other and build biotitans there's not a lot of point to your specialist breeder types because everyone else can recombine themselves into whatever they want to do, without HM oversight.

This is the problem with new writers adding stuff without thinking about what came before and the consequences.

Hormaguants could breed and reproduce themselves, genestealers as well.

But having them literally be capable of spawning any kind of tyranid undermines the swarm and its components. Stories are made interesting as much by what things can do, as by what they can't.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 08:29:57


Post by: Iracundus


Instead of birthing a hive ship on the planet, maybe instead it is gestated in space, at the tip of a capillary tower?

With regards to the regeneration of the Tyranid ecosystem on Anphelion, I don't think it was ever explicitly said what kind of creatures were in the initial samples. Certainly they had small creatures like Gaunts, but was it ever said they had (or didn't have) Synapse creatures? In the end they did have Warriors and even a Hive Tyrant I believe, but if they had Synapse creatures to start with, then it is possible the Hive Mind had a presence. Given enough time the presence of Synapse creatures and thus the Hive Mind may allow for the creation of more specialized creatures.

We know from past Tyranid background that swarms and fleets fall into disarray when they lose their Dominatrix/Hive Tyrant/Norn Queen (even though that shouldn't be a vulnerability of a true distributed network), and it is then that enemies often win when they take advantage of the confused Tyranids. However hypothetically, what if nothing else happened after the death of that highest Synapse creature? Maybe the Tyranids would be able to spawn a new one given enough time.

For me, the Anphelion Project seems to suggest that if left alone a Synapse creature will take control of lesser creatures, and presence of the Hive Mind through that Synapse creature will lead (eventually) to the birth of new Synapse creatures. Then as the presence of the Hive Mind grows stronger, more and more diversity is seen as "blueprints" for more creatures are able to be accessed, eventually culminating in the birth of the top level Synapse creatures, and then capillary towers and then the first hive ships.
If the samples had instead consisted solely of Gaunts, with no Synapse creatures whatsoever, then IMO they would have remained Gaunts forever, reproducing independently but just Gaunts.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 08:37:37


Post by: Andersp90


Hellebore wrote:
We definitely can come up with our own explanations, but they're just that.


Why is it important to know exactly how they created new ships? The point of the story is to show that tyranids can make a rapid come-back if given the opportunity, and I think it tells that story well.

Certainly if tyranids can reproduce space ships via rippers, there would be a lot more space ships than is currently depicted. The hive ship birthing whole other ships is part of the limitation on tyranids.


The number of hive ships in a hive fleet is limited by the amount of available biomass to build them. That is also why they are born after the absorption of a worlds biomass.

It's been inferred that bioships are not simple to make and although rippers can represent the larval stages of a range of bioforms, there's no evidence than tyranids have all the different strains in their DNA like orks do, so they produce any type of nid.


This is from Deathwatch: the achilus assault. Its from FFG, so whether its cannon or not can be debated.

The 3rd edition codex has some hints along the same lines, but nothing was confirmed. I believe it was also touched on in xenology, but I cant remember. I can have a look though.



roboemperor wrote:


BFG2 suggests they create bio-shipyards.


That is at odds with the codex lore.




Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 12:28:50


Post by: Tyran


I fail to see the issue.

The Tyranid consumption of a planet is a massive affair in which the oceans, the atmosphere and the upper crust is consumed.

With such massive movement of materials, building a few (or a lot) kilometer sized ships is trivial. Wherever it is by digging kilometers wide birthing chambers into the crust or using the capillary towers as orbital shipyards doesn't really matter.





Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/11 13:48:58


Post by: roboemperor


Hellebore wrote:
Anphelion is a weird one and it undermines the point of hive queens. It undermines the point of the differential breeds and hierarchy in the swarm to begin with.


No it doesn't. It just means that Tyranid flesh is clay. And when the need arises the Hive Mind will modify any Tyranid flesh into anything they need. For example Gaunts growing wings and then later I assume is the ability to spawn rippers which is said to be able to turn into any Tyranid including Hive Tyrants.

Octarius also didn't have a norn queen or dominatrix at the start. So the only way the Tyranids would've been able to do all of their stuff there is if they had the ability to reproduce without norn-queens, such as building reclamation pools that spawn rippers.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/13 01:24:21


Post by: Hellebore


roboemperor wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
Anphelion is a weird one and it undermines the point of hive queens. It undermines the point of the differential breeds and hierarchy in the swarm to begin with.


No it doesn't. It just means that Tyranid flesh is clay. And when the need arises the Hive Mind will modify any Tyranid flesh into anything they need. For example Gaunts growing wings and then later I assume is the ability to spawn rippers which is said to be able to turn into any Tyranid including Hive Tyrants.

Octarius also didn't have a norn queen or dominatrix at the start. So the only way the Tyranids would've been able to do all of their stuff there is if they had the ability to reproduce without norn-queens, such as building reclamation pools that spawn rippers.


Tyranid flesh has always been clay, but it hasn't had a universal set of tools that can turn that clay into anything else without limit. They never had that amount of flexibility and I don't think it does them any favours narratively to give them this ability especially for a wargame where unit designations and divisions are at the core of how armies function.

This is removing any weakness they have at all which imo is not helpful. The limitations on their biology, the heirarchy and control of the swarm help define their character as much as 'can grow new monsters'. Hormaguants could only ever reproduce new hormagaunts so relic infestations were a different problem to a full swarm.

the concept that rippers can literally turn into kilometre long space ships if they just eat enough, that they can morph into literally any bioform the hive produces is not a good retcon of their far more sensible but ultimately limited biology.





Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/13 01:34:18


Post by: roboemperor


Hellebore wrote:
Tyranid flesh has always been clay, but it hasn't had a universal set of tools that can turn that clay into anything else without limit. They never had that amount of flexibility and I don't think it does them any favours narratively to give them this ability especially for a wargame where unit designations and divisions are at the core of how armies function.

This is removing any weakness they have at all which imo is not helpful. The limitations on their biology, the heirarchy and control of the swarm help define their character as much as 'can grow new monsters'. Hormaguants could only ever reproduce new hormagaunts so relic infestations were a different problem to a full swarm.

the concept that rippers can literally turn into kilometre long space ships if they just eat enough, that they can morph into literally any bioform the hive produces is not a good retcon of their far more sensible but ultimately limited biology.





I disagree. They didn't grow the wings or the ability to spawn other tyranids overnight. It's no different than repurposing motorcycle engines into an airplane propeller to build an airplane to escape berlin. It took a while for the tyranid cells to repurpose themselves into wings and reproductive organs.

So gaunts can't spawn other nids by default because reproductive organs on a war machine is a waste of mass and weight just like it's a waste of mass and weight to put in a Lathe or a Milling Machine inside a tank.

It doesn't remove any real weakness imo. Being able to create an army of tyranids by sending a gaunt into a biomass rich world doesn't really do anything other than make them look cooler. They're already doing something far stronger with genestealers.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/15 05:15:20


Post by: roboemperor


Did Newcrons retcon the whole teleport before destruction thing? THe lore I'm finding says Warriors die and let out a scream to alert others. And some short stories have impaled necron bodies being carried around.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/15 09:05:12


Post by: locarno24


roboemperor wrote:
Did Newcrons retcon the whole teleport before destruction thing? THe lore I'm finding says Warriors die and let out a scream to alert others. And some short stories have impaled necron bodies being carried around.

It's always been and remains a thing but it's also never been infallible. Sometimes it fails to work, leaving a 'corpse'. The body sticks around as long as the self-repair thinks it has a chance to get it back on its feet, and I guess occasionally it guesses wrong.

Some tech can interfere - a (6th?) Edition Deathwatch apocalypse formation from the Damnos book had "anti-phasic" bolts, and the plastic chaos terminator Lord has had a necrons skull on his trophy rack since way back when.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/15 12:31:49


Post by: pm713


locarno24 wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
Did Newcrons retcon the whole teleport before destruction thing? THe lore I'm finding says Warriors die and let out a scream to alert others. And some short stories have impaled necron bodies being carried around.

It's always been and remains a thing but it's also never been infallible. Sometimes it fails to work, leaving a 'corpse'. The body sticks around as long as the self-repair thinks it has a chance to get it back on its feet, and I guess occasionally it guesses wrong.

Some tech can interfere - a (6th?) Edition Deathwatch apocalypse formation from the Damnos book had "anti-phasic" bolts, and the plastic chaos terminator Lord has had a necrons skull on his trophy rack since way back when.

I'd make the assumption that psychic powers interfere with it as well. If psychic powers mess up Necron tech it would go a long way to explain how Eldar beat them the first time round and fits with the Necrons being the anti Warp guys.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/15 13:22:44


Post by: Tyran


It is not flawless and can be messed with, specially in Necron vs Necron warfare or by physic phenomena like the Shadow in the Warp.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/17 05:23:30


Post by: roboemperor


edit: Deleted


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/17 10:54:37


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Why did Malcador get so pissy when Horus tried to speak the names of one of the lost primarchs? I get that by then the two were on different sides of a civil war, but you think by the way Malcador acted that Horus was trying to summon a greater daemon. (Just to be clear, I haven't read that book yet.)


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/17 11:07:19


Post by: Aash


 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Why did Malcador get so pissy when Horus tried to speak the names of one of the lost primarchs? I get that by then the two were on different sides of a civil war, but you think by the way Malcador acted that Horus was trying to summon a greater daemon. (Just to be clear, I haven't read that book yet.)


At the time of their conversation they aren’t at opposite sides of a civil war, it’s a flashback to pre-heresy during the great crusade.

It’s a long-standing point in the lore that nothing/next to nothing is revealed about the 2 missing legions and their primarchs, so really it’s just a plot contrivance to reference the missing primarchs and legions without giving anything away. It would be weirder really if nobody ever referred to them at all, so it scratched that itch without spoiling the mystery.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 01:36:56


Post by: roboemperor


Tyrannofex v.s. Stormsurge. Who wins? 1on1.
How many more of the losers will it take to beat the winner?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 01:46:47


Post by: Overread


roboemperor wrote:
Tyrannofex v.s. Stormsurge. Who wins? 1on1.
How many more of the losers will it take to beat the winner?


Might be easier to answer in game rather than lore terms. In game terms you can pitch units against each other with fixed stats and situation and extrapolate variations in power roughly from there. In lore SOOOOO many other factors come into play.

Eg what is the situation - a brand new shiny Stormsurge with experienced skilled crew ready trained and everything in tip top condition; or one battle damaged with limited ammo and a novice crew unused to battle against Tyranids?
Is the Tyrannofex alone (rare) and if not then what's with it. Is it hiding behind a rock or charging in an open field or with a swarm of other bugs. Will other bugs rise up to intercept fire from the Stormsurge to protect the greater asset of the tyrannofex or will the swarm sacrifice things the other way around so the stormsurge focuses on the big beasty and lets the smaller things reach it and tear it apart.
What about interference of huge spore clusters in the air causing the Stormsurge to miss; or even taking damage. What if the Tyrannofex shunts more of its energies and such into a single powerful shot that, game wise, doesn't exist but is biologically possible for a Tyranid to do to maximise damage to a single high value enemy target.

Also in stories the "power" of attacks and abilities varies quite considerably. Again its more likely to emulate game powers as a base line to give some rough concept of relative powers; however again we encounter odditites of interpretation and also the fact that rules change so relative power between two units in one edition might be very different to another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
roboemperor wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?


It looks cool.

Also its body is roughly designed to be capable of walking over the rest of a swarm, hence the arched back and long thin legs as opposed to a more squat and heavy Carnifex design. It's expected to march over the swarm whilst charging forward along with it.

Weapons on its back it doesn't have, several renditions do have flesh-hooks on the chest carapace, but not the back itself. It's primary weapons are its mouth, guns tail and claws. Also note that its towers all along its back spew out spores the whole time (not always represented in model game rules). In fact the forward facing plates look like the spore-thrower backs that carnifex have. So I guess you could count that as a weapon - throwing sporemines; though that's more on the front/shoulder than the full arched back of the model.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 01:57:47


Post by: Arson Fire


roboemperor wrote:

Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

Not represented in the current rules, but yes. Those round cysts on its back are for spitting out spore mines, and the large vents are for producing toxic spore clouds. It's also supposed to be able to spray out clouds of anti-aircraft spines. Previous editions of its rules have supported this.

Note that the hierophant is supposed to be able to support all sorts of weapons, like other titans. The unit fluff for it says:
Like all Tyranids, the bio-titan seems able to mutate rapidly, evolving new weapons and defences as required. Other variants of the Hierophant bio-titan have been identified with huge crushing claws or long scythe-like blades, cluster spines and other bio-weapons.

But the rules don't currently support anything but the single model with fixed equipment that we've got.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 02:49:01


Post by: roboemperor


 Overread wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
Tyrannofex v.s. Stormsurge. Who wins? 1on1.
How many more of the losers will it take to beat the winner?


Might be easier to answer in game rather than lore terms. In game terms you can pitch units against each other with fixed stats and situation and extrapolate variations in power roughly from there. In lore SOOOOO many other factors come into play.

Eg what is the situation - a brand new shiny Stormsurge with experienced skilled crew ready trained and everything in tip top condition; or one battle damaged with limited ammo and a novice crew unused to battle against Tyranids?
Is the Tyrannofex alone (rare) and if not then what's with it. Is it hiding behind a rock or charging in an open field or with a swarm of other bugs. Will other bugs rise up to intercept fire from the Stormsurge to protect the greater asset of the tyrannofex or will the swarm sacrifice things the other way around so the stormsurge focuses on the big beasty and lets the smaller things reach it and tear it apart.
What about interference of huge spore clusters in the air causing the Stormsurge to miss; or even taking damage. What if the Tyrannofex shunts more of its energies and such into a single powerful shot that, game wise, doesn't exist but is biologically possible for a Tyranid to do to maximise damage to a single high value enemy target.

Also in stories the "power" of attacks and abilities varies quite considerably. Again its more likely to emulate game powers as a base line to give some rough concept of relative powers; however again we encounter odditites of interpretation and also the fact that rules change so relative power between two units in one edition might be very different to another.


Yeah. I'm totally asking if a almost destroyed stormsurge standing on top of an nuke that's about to explode is stronger than a top condition tyrannofex supported by the entire swarm >.>

Both units are Gladius's ultimate units for each faction so i wanted to gauge how strong one is to another. So brand new, best equipment, open field, at the maximum range of the unit with the longer range. So the shorter range unit has to take a few hits before getting in range to fire. If cover like trees and stuff make a difference then I'd like to know by how much.

And yes, this scenario is unlikely to be encountered even in Gladius since Tyranid players have to mass spam Tyrannofexes to compete in the lategame.



 Overread wrote:
It looks cool.


Doesn't look cool to me : (

Actually this looks cool
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/21/Bio-titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130114095514

But this doesn't.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a0/Hierophant_Bio-Titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110719012604

Anyways thanks. You've been most helpful.

Arson Fire wrote:
roboemperor wrote:

Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?

Not represented in the current rules, but yes. Those round cysts on its back are for spitting out spore mines, and the large vents are for producing toxic spore clouds. It's also supposed to be able to spray out clouds of anti-aircraft spines. Previous editions of its rules have supported this.

Note that the hierophant is supposed to be able to support all sorts of weapons, like other titans. The unit fluff for it says:
Like all Tyranids, the bio-titan seems able to mutate rapidly, evolving new weapons and defences as required. Other variants of the Hierophant bio-titan have been identified with huge crushing claws or long scythe-like blades, cluster spines and other bio-weapons.

But the rules don't currently support anything but the single model with fixed equipment that we've got.


Spore mines are tyranid's missiles right? Yeah that counts.

Thanks!


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 02:49:53


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Aash wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Why did Malcador get so pissy when Horus tried to speak the names of one of the lost primarchs? I get that by then the two were on different sides of a civil war, but you think by the way Malcador acted that Horus was trying to summon a greater daemon. (Just to be clear, I haven't read that book yet.)


At the time of their conversation they aren’t at opposite sides of a civil war, it’s a flashback to pre-heresy during the great crusade.

It’s a long-standing point in the lore that nothing/next to nothing is revealed about the 2 missing legions and their primarchs, so really it’s just a plot contrivance to reference the missing primarchs and legions without giving anything away. It would be weirder really if nobody ever referred to them at all, so it scratched that itch without spoiling the mystery.


Ok, I didn't know that it was a flashback, and I can understand why GW may want to keep it a mystery. Still, for someone so invested in an atheistic philosophy like the Imperial Truth, it's strange that he would act as if simply speaking the names of the lost primarchs was like some form of witchcraft.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 04:13:00


Post by: Kayback


That's the problem with tryng to mesh lore, fluff, table top games, computer games and novels, all compiled by different people for different goals. Internal consistency is sketchy at best. Then someone comes and asks a question like this and whatever we get are ad hoc rationalization at best, often with little to no thought of the impact on bigger events.

Because it's fictional there isn't any basis for making claim based on physics or science. It's quite possible they could build independent components that assemble into a bio ship, or can create an entity capable of birthing a bio ship. You even said "as far as we know" which opens up any possibility.

As with a lot of stuff in the 40K universe se things happen just because. Is that a satisfying answer? No, not really, but that's where suspension of disbelief comes in. Getting a satisfying answer may lead to retcons which damage other lore.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 04:42:59


Post by: Vermis


roboemperor wrote:
Does the Hierophant have weapons on its back? I mean theres gotta be a reason for that really hunched back right?


Bad creature design.


Automatically Appended Next Post:




I went hunting for decent photos of (or at least a decent look at) the original epic model after that hierophant/hydraphant thread: gave me a whole new appreciation of the old pre-3rd 40K nid look, and more conviction that the FW hierophant is a bit of an unimaginative port of the 3rd ed design features, while trying to skimp on the amount of resin needed.

That first pic is more in line with the old mini in terms of the proportions, the bioweapons, and a few other details. Takes after the new one in the hunched pose and the too-big horns/carapace flaps, though. I'm not altogether sure where those are supposed to fit on, in the illustration, either.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 10:23:52


Post by: Overread


roboemperor wrote:

Yeah. I'm totally asking if a almost destroyed stormsurge standing on top of an nuke that's about to explode is stronger than a top condition tyrannofex supported by the entire swarm >.>

Both units are Gladius's ultimate units for each faction so i wanted to gauge how strong one is to another. So brand new, best equipment, open field, at the maximum range of the unit with the longer range. So the shorter range unit has to take a few hits before getting in range to fire. If cover like trees and stuff make a difference then I'd like to know by how much.

And yes, this scenario is unlikely to be encountered even in Gladius since Tyranid players have to mass spam Tyrannofexes to compete in the lategame..


You sort of missed my point in that I was saying you need to provide context including what realm you're talking about. Tabletop game, Lore, Gladius in game etc... Each one could present a very different answer. Eg Trees might provide no cover against weapon fire in the tabletop game; however in Gladius they might provide a cover bonus and in lore it would depend on the world and the trees specifically with some worlds having very different types of tree - some of which might even have razor bark so the tyranid moving through could even be at risk of taking scratches on its legs whilst advancing (for example).

If you're trying to compare in Gladius I can't answer as I don't own the Tau content yet, but you could match the two together in a game and see what happens (might need a mod to allow you to force a situation like that without having to contrive one in-game - or simply talk to someone in multiplayer to setup a game match with them to do it).



 Overread wrote:
It looks cool.


Doesn't look cool to me : (

Actually this looks cool
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/21/Bio-titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130114095514

But this doesn't.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a0/Hierophant_Bio-Titan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110719012604


I'm not a big fan of the new design either, partly on looks, but also on the practicalities of its construction. I think if it was a plastic model it would be far more practical in terms of its leg and body structure; as it is now its a huge chunk of resin (which as noted could be/should be even bigger) held up by four very long very thin sections of resin. I do wonder if it was supposed to originally be one of the resin plastic hybrids FW has done before - using plastic for the core body and then perhaps some resin covers for the back and head and arms (areas of higher detail). FW's tyranids were mostly birthed in the 3rd edition and that's an edition where I didn't take to the new hive tyrant and overall design asthetics they chose for many of the Tyranids. The more modern designs and the first generation designs I feel were just far superior save for a few (eg warrior redesigns I think are fantastic even if they lose their stabby spike tail).

The Harridane looks cool in terms of detail on the resin, but its pose is very blocky on its chest and its scythe arms seem out of place; whilst its wings lack an element of motion to them - granted the original Epic model also had the same wing positions, but I think it stands out more on such a big model compared to a small epic one.

Diamichon also disappointed me as it went for that somewhat oversized upper body on a long spindly leg design - a shame because other models like the skyslashers (if they were actually affordable) and the malanthrope (which I own and is fantastic) are really great models.
.
roboemperor wrote:

Spore mines are tyranid's missiles right? Yeah that counts.

Thanks!


Not quite. Spore mines are their own thing. They are essentially a bag of gas with a semi muscular tail. They are fired out and fly through the air, but have no self propulsion. If they "hit" then they would be similar to bombardment from artillery rather than fire from missiles. However if they "miss" the target they simply float close to the ground. They then have no means to move properly (in the game their movement has often been random directions each turn, but game practicalities often let you define direction); but they will float along. Their tendril can wrap around things whilst their gasses can explode when they get near to enemies.

The gasses they are filled with vary, some might be anti-infantry toxic gases; others might be highly volatile explosives. Tyranids often use them to create floating mine-fields on the battlefield and to also rain down terror on the enemy; using them as bombardment artillery where any "miss" is still a likely hit because it will float around rather than simply exploding and doing nothing. Of course the weakness is they can be shot at, so in the lore they rely on insane volumes of spores to gain effect.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 11:21:48


Post by: roboemperor


 Overread wrote:
You sort of missed my point in that I was saying you need to provide context including what realm you're talking about. Tabletop game, Lore, Gladius in game etc... Each one could present a very different answer. Eg Trees might provide no cover against weapon fire in the tabletop game; however in Gladius they might provide a cover bonus and in lore it would depend on the world and the trees specifically with some worlds having very different types of tree - some of which might even have razor bark so the tyranid moving through could even be at risk of taking scratches on its legs whilst advancing (for example).

If you're trying to compare in Gladius I can't answer as I don't own the Tau content yet, but you could match the two together in a game and see what happens (might need a mod to allow you to force a situation like that without having to contrive one in-game - or simply talk to someone in multiplayer to setup a game match with them to do it).


This is a lore thread in the lore section of the forum ;P

If it's undeterminable with lore then Tabletop I guess. I already know the answer in gladius but I don't think gladius is supposed to be an accurate representation of unit strength? 4 or 5 doomscythes kill Lord of Skulls for example.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/22 12:11:37


Post by: Overread


Gladius is similar to tabletop in that unit numbers you see don't reflect "real" numbers. Eg gaunt units have only what 8 or so models on the view where we know in reality there would be hundreds of actual gaunts running around (if not thousands). So that single Doomscythe model might be 1 or it might be a wing or a flight so it could be 3 or 12 or however many fits into the lore.


In the end I would wager that lore wise the Stormsurge would potentially have a greater chance to win. It's a dedicated battle platform designed to take on single high power high armour targets (titans). The Tyrannofex isn't a titan, its big but its not titanic. Both feature long range weaponary and can hit each other at extreme distances with extreme power.
The Stormsurge is also an elite unit within an elite style army whilst the Tyrannofex is an elite unit within an army that relies most heavily on weight of numbers. The Stormsurge is thus perhaps more durable in general.

That said both feature supremely powerful long ranged weapons and the Tyrannofex can deliver its primary payload at its most extreme range. This presents a lore situation where both could snipe the other and thus the winner might be whichever gets the first shot. It also depends where the shot lands - if the Tyrannofex takes out the primary gun or a leg then the stormsurge might be unable to reply with its primary armament. The same is true of the Stormsurge hitting the Tyrannofex - hit the right spot (that huge gun) and you can again run a chance of downing its main attack option.

The Stormsurge does have better closer range weapons in general; its designed to operate on its own more so; whilst the Tyrannofex has particularly weaker close range support weapons and relies on the bulk of the swarm to protect it. However neither would want to approach the other to use their closer ranged weapons thus its somewhat of a moot point.



One benefit the Tyrannofex has is a lower body profile and a more dynamic and mobile body. Whilst it is somwhat slower than many other Tyranids its still much more mobile than the Stormsurge, which has to deploy itself into a static position to make use of its primary weapons. The Tyrannofex thus has a potential to use more of the terrain to protect itself. If we swing back to the "whichever fires and hits first might well win" argument then the Tyrannofex might well have the edge there in being able to better use terrain to its own advantage.
It's also capable of using its spore vents to generate its own spore clouds. This isn't always shown in games, but whilst the Venomthrope is held up as the spore cloud generator in the game; most tyranids produce sports from tehir vents. A Tyrannodfex has a particularly large number of them and, lore wise, I would assume is possible of clouding itself and the area around it in spores. Of course the Stormsurge likely has multiple bands of vision possible so it might be that the spores don't offer much real world protection against disrupting the Stormsurges ability to get a lock-on.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/23 03:24:50


Post by: roboemperor


 Overread wrote:
Gladius is similar to tabletop in that unit numbers you see don't reflect "real" numbers. Eg gaunt units have only what 8 or so models on the view where we know in reality there would be hundreds of actual gaunts running around (if not thousands). So that single Doomscythe model might be 1 or it might be a wing or a flight so it could be 3 or 12 or however many fits into the lore.


In the end I would wager that lore wise the Stormsurge would potentially have a greater chance to win. It's a dedicated battle platform designed to take on single high power high armour targets (titans). The Tyrannofex isn't a titan, its big but its not titanic. Both feature long range weaponary and can hit each other at extreme distances with extreme power.
The Stormsurge is also an elite unit within an elite style army whilst the Tyrannofex is an elite unit within an army that relies most heavily on weight of numbers. The Stormsurge is thus perhaps more durable in general.

That said both feature supremely powerful long ranged weapons and the Tyrannofex can deliver its primary payload at its most extreme range. This presents a lore situation where both could snipe the other and thus the winner might be whichever gets the first shot. It also depends where the shot lands - if the Tyrannofex takes out the primary gun or a leg then the stormsurge might be unable to reply with its primary armament. The same is true of the Stormsurge hitting the Tyrannofex - hit the right spot (that huge gun) and you can again run a chance of downing its main attack option.

The Stormsurge does have better closer range weapons in general; its designed to operate on its own more so; whilst the Tyrannofex has particularly weaker close range support weapons and relies on the bulk of the swarm to protect it. However neither would want to approach the other to use their closer ranged weapons thus its somewhat of a moot point.



One benefit the Tyrannofex has is a lower body profile and a more dynamic and mobile body. Whilst it is somwhat slower than many other Tyranids its still much more mobile than the Stormsurge, which has to deploy itself into a static position to make use of its primary weapons. The Tyrannofex thus has a potential to use more of the terrain to protect itself. If we swing back to the "whichever fires and hits first might well win" argument then the Tyrannofex might well have the edge there in being able to better use terrain to its own advantage.
It's also capable of using its spore vents to generate its own spore clouds. This isn't always shown in games, but whilst the Venomthrope is held up as the spore cloud generator in the game; most tyranids produce sports from tehir vents. A Tyrannodfex has a particularly large number of them and, lore wise, I would assume is possible of clouding itself and the area around it in spores. Of course the Stormsurge likely has multiple bands of vision possible so it might be that the spores don't offer much real world protection against disrupting the Stormsurges ability to get a lock-on.


Thanks you've been tremendously helpful.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 05:49:18


Post by: roboemperor


How strong are Hierodules compared to Tyrannofexes, Stormsurges, and Obelisks? (lore not tabletop or video games).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 13:08:01


Post by: Tyran


No idea, Hierodules have practically no lore unlike the larger Hierophant that is the standard Tyranid bio-titan (and thus has far more feats against Titans).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 13:28:00


Post by: Overread


With Tyranids only just getting into Epic 40K before it imploded and then GW never really revisiting them since; there's been no real need for advanced or detailed lore on bigger monsters for Tyranids. There's a few Forgeworld models, but by and large there's no real foundation for them to build on the lore in a big way.


Also way back in epic the Hierodules was a titan, only just a tiny bit smaller than the Hierophant. The FW release changed quite a bit in size and scale and focus.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 13:48:22


Post by: Tyran


Although curiously the lore kinda ignored FW and went with the original Epic scale when it came to Hierophants.

In the lore, a Hierophant is a Warlord Titan equivalent like in Epic and unlike the Warhound equivalent that is the FW Hierophant.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 14:00:48


Post by: Overread


Aye that's probably one of those "Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" affairs with GW. Esp since FW is sort of held off to the side at times. FW made the change, which might have been something as simple as just slapping an existing name on a new model made by a designer so that it had some instant marketing.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 16:40:39


Post by: roboemperor


How many Tyrannofexes will it take to take down a
Warhound Titan
Warlord Titan
Hierophant as big as a Warlord.

They are supposed to be the Nids' titan killers right?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/05/29 16:47:31


Post by: Tyran


The Hierophant is supposed to be the Titan Killer.

Tyrannofexes with rupture cannons are anti-tank and anti-super heavy but not necessarily anti-titan.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/03 21:52:55


Post by: roboemperor


Gladius says there are chaos female sorcerers, so which chaos units are capable of being female?

Master of Possession?
Warpsmith?
Chaos Space Marine?
Some other thing I don't know about?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/03 21:59:45


Post by: Overread


Anything.


In theory as Chaos Space Marines are made from corrupted Marines, who have no women in their ranks, you'd not get pure Chaos Space Marine females. That said with the warp powers and gods like Slaanesh chances are they could be ANYTHING under that armour - even if originally they were male.

Otherwise any other role in the army would, again, lead from its source so any imperial group that features women could then be corrupted to be female chaos. Of course, yet again, we have to deal with the warp effects which, again, can change, body mind and soul.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/04 09:17:47


Post by: roboemperor


greater daemons and daemon princes, how do they stack up to titans?

Swarmlord, how does it stack up to greater daemons and titans?

Avatar of Khaine, how does he stack up to Titans?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/04 10:19:19


Post by: Tiennos


Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/04 11:44:52


Post by: Suzuteo


 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?

Basically, all you need is a plasma drive (for real space), warp drive (for warp space), Geller field generator (for the daemons), and life support systems, and you have a ship. Because all of these things are bulky and expensive, the best bang for your buck is to build your ships really big. That being said, civilian ships do exist, and they are much smaller than Imperial Navy warships. The Inquisition and Assassinorum use such vessels.

In terms of size, the smallest ship I know of is Amberley Vail's Externus Exterminatus from the Ciaphas Cain series. It is described as a warp-capable yacht, and it houses her retinue, which consists of seven people including herself. In terms of actual size, it seems to be tiny. My guess is half a kilometer long, most of which is taken up by the aforementioned systems.

In terms of crew complement, the Ultio from "Nemesis" is a modified light cargo ship and has a crew of three: a navigator, an astropath, and a servitor pilot who is integrated into the ship. Jaq Draco's Tormentum Malorum from the Inquisitor series seems to be roughly the same size and also has a crew of three.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/04 17:48:52


Post by: Tiennos


 Suzuteo wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?

Basically, all you need is a plasma drive (for real space), warp drive (for warp space), Geller field generator (for the daemons), and life support systems, and you have a ship. Because all of these things are bulky and expensive, the best bang for your buck is to build your ships really big. That being said, civilian ships do exist, and they are much smaller than Imperial Navy warships. The Inquisition and Assassinorum use such vessels.

In terms of size, the smallest ship I know of is Amberley Vail's Externus Exterminatus from the Ciaphas Cain series. It is described as a warp-capable yacht, and it houses her retinue, which consists of seven people including herself. In terms of actual size, it seems to be tiny. My guess is half a kilometer long, most of which is taken up by the aforementioned systems.

In terms of crew complement, the Ultio from "Nemesis" is a modified light cargo ship and has a crew of three: a navigator, an astropath, and a servitor pilot who is integrated into the ship. Jaq Draco's Tormentum Malorum from the Inquisitor series seems to be roughly the same size and also has a crew of three.

Neat! I guess that would look something like a big real life cargo ship in terms of size. Still awfully big, but pretty reasonable, considering it's the Imperium.

Thanks for the info.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/08 01:50:51


Post by: roboemperor


What are the methods of creating Daemon Engines?

The one described on the wiki has 3 guys working together. I was wondering if one guy can do it alone.


And bumping my earlier questions.
roboemperor wrote:
greater daemons and daemon princes, how do they stack up to titans?

Swarmlord, how does it stack up to greater daemons and titans?

Avatar of Khaine, how does he stack up to Titans?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/22 09:05:36


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


Has there been any examples of a Space Marine Chapter deploying their entire chapter on a single ship?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/22 13:30:27


Post by: pm713


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Has there been any examples of a Space Marine Chapter deploying their entire chapter on a single ship?

I don't think so. Even GW seem aware that would be a terrible idea and they have mentioned things indicating they don't do that, for example Space Wolves never deploy the entire Chapter to one conflict, someone has to draw the short straw.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/24 16:54:00


Post by: ArcaneHorror


I'm curious about the Red Corsairs' symbol. In the current lore, it's that awesome fist in the air, but in the Honsou stories, we see it be some kind of red cross. To be fair, most of the CSM wearing the cross were the equivalent of neophytes, so I'm wondering if the cross is a symbol of someone having just joined the Corsairs or if at the time the stories were written, GW had their symbol be canonically different.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 02:55:14


Post by: roboemperor


How strong are defilers?

Dawn of War makes them look like tank mooks. No better than dreadnoughts.
Gladius makes them look like they rival greater daemons in power and dwarf dreadnoughts and carnifexes.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 05:31:35


Post by: chromedog


 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


In Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn stuff, Eisenhorn has a "gun cutter" and pilot (a relatively 'small' inter-system gunship) but he travels interstellar distances by using the services of a Rogue Trader's ship. The ship is fairly large, but his gun cutter is basically an armed shuttlecraft.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 06:47:55


Post by: Kayback


 chromedog wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


In Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn stuff, Eisenhorn has a "gun cutter" and pilot (a relatively 'small' inter-system gunship) but he travels interstellar distances by using the services of a Rogue Trader's ship. The ship is fairly large, but his gun cutter is basically an armed shuttlecraft.


https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Viper-class_Scout_Sloop

Not official sources but it does give a citation to RT. So excluding the Inquisition black ops ships 950m.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 08:18:35


Post by: Duskweaver


 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm curious about the Red Corsairs' symbol. In the current lore, it's that awesome fist in the air, but in the Honsou stories, we see it be some kind of red cross. To be fair, most of the CSM wearing the cross were the equivalent of neophytes, so I'm wondering if the cross is a symbol of someone having just joined the Corsairs or if at the time the stories were written, GW had their symbol be canonically different.

Old fluff was that the RCs didn't have a 'chapter' symbol or colours. Individual RC marines just painted red crosses over their previous loyalist chapter heraldry. The unified red-and-black colour scheme and clawed fist icon are (5th edition IIRC) retcons.

Red Corsairs in the second 3rd edition CSM codex:
http://redelf.narod.ru/pi/w40k/ia/rsm_chapters_02.jpg


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 11:26:38


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:Has there been any examples of a Space Marine Chapter deploying their entire chapter on a single ship?
Depends how many Marines are left in the Chapter.

Could you have fitted the entire Crimson Fists Chapter on one strike cruiser at one time? Absolutely.

Is deploying the full compliment of 1000 Marines on one Battle Barge/larger vessel (Phalanx/Rock) common? Unlikely, unless you're a fleet Chapter. You'd still want people to look after your homeworld, after all.
The only time I can remember a full Chapter on one ship (and even then, I'm not 100% sure it was all on one ship, and not several attacking in concert) is the attack on the World Engine by the Astral Knights, who rammed the Necron ship with their own Battle Barge, and led a full Chapter assault within the heart of the World Engine.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 14:21:58


Post by: Voss


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Has there been any examples of a Space Marine Chapter deploying their entire chapter on a single ship?


It tends heavily in the other direction. Often we see not even a company on one ship. In the ' ... of Mars' series, it gets as low as one (partial) squad and a chaplain. Demi-companies or battle forces made up of several squads are common.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 15:00:22


Post by: Tyran


Any Space Marine capital ship can easily hold an entire Chapter and more. Honestly you can probably fit an entire Chapter on an escort.

But the Space Marines don't do that because putting all your eggs in one basket tends to backfire a lot.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/27 18:39:09


Post by: pm713


Voss wrote:
 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Has there been any examples of a Space Marine Chapter deploying their entire chapter on a single ship?


It tends heavily in the other direction. Often we see not even a company on one ship. In the ' ... of Mars' series, it gets as low as one (partial) squad and a chaplain. Demi-companies or battle forces made up of several squads are common.

They were Black Templars who deploy abnormally though.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/29 04:44:31


Post by: Voss


pm713 wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Has there been any examples of a Space Marine Chapter deploying their entire chapter on a single ship?


It tends heavily in the other direction. Often we see not even a company on one ship. In the ' ... of Mars' series, it gets as low as one (partial) squad and a chaplain. Demi-companies or battle forces made up of several squads are common.

They were Black Templars who deploy abnormally though.


Somewhat?
But there are a lot of instances where the marine presence is one or two squads and a captain/librarian/chaplain, so it feels closer to the norm.
Going by the books, 11 to 21 actually seems far more common than a full company deployment, regardless of chapter.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/29 06:33:11


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


The novel Eye of Terror has a warp capable ship that can land on a planet. The only crew are the Rogue Trader who owns it and a navigator. This ship makes a few warp trips without refueling, if I recall, and was generally treated like a Mellinneum Falcon type.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/29 21:40:00


Post by: Tiennos


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


The novel Eye of Terror has a warp capable ship that can land on a planet. The only crew are the Rogue Trader who owns it and a navigator. This ship makes a few warp trips without refueling, if I recall, and was generally treated like a Mellinneum Falcon type.

Now that's really small for 40k! Considering what they usually build, a regular shipyard could probably mass produce ships that size. Although it doesn't look like there are a whole lot of people travelling on their own in the Imperium, so demand must be pretty low.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/29 21:46:50


Post by: beast_gts


 Tiennos wrote:
 Suzuteo wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?

Basically, all you need is a plasma drive (for real space), warp drive (for warp space), Geller field generator (for the daemons), and life support systems, and you have a ship. Because all of these things are bulky and expensive, the best bang for your buck is to build your ships really big. That being said, civilian ships do exist, and they are much smaller than Imperial Navy warships. The Inquisition and Assassinorum use such vessels.

In terms of size, the smallest ship I know of is Amberley Vail's Externus Exterminatus from the Ciaphas Cain series. It is described as a warp-capable yacht, and it houses her retinue, which consists of seven people including herself. In terms of actual size, it seems to be tiny. My guess is half a kilometer long, most of which is taken up by the aforementioned systems.

In terms of crew complement, the Ultio from "Nemesis" is a modified light cargo ship and has a crew of three: a navigator, an astropath, and a servitor pilot who is integrated into the ship. Jaq Draco's Tormentum Malorum from the Inquisitor series seems to be roughly the same size and also has a crew of three.

Neat! I guess that would look something like a big real life cargo ship in terms of size. Still awfully big, but pretty reasonable, considering it's the Imperium.

Thanks for the info.



There's an Inquisition 2-man warp capable fighter in one of the Grey Knights novels - Inquisitor / Pilot & Navigator.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/29 22:52:02


Post by: Hellebore


 Tiennos wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


The novel Eye of Terror has a warp capable ship that can land on a planet. The only crew are the Rogue Trader who owns it and a navigator. This ship makes a few warp trips without refueling, if I recall, and was generally treated like a Mellinneum Falcon type.

Now that's really small for 40k! Considering what they usually build, a regular shipyard could probably mass produce ships that size. Although it doesn't look like there are a whole lot of people travelling on their own in the Imperium, so demand must be pretty low.



With these kinds of things, is usually that the tech is old and advanced and no one knows how to miniaturize it anymore. Every component in those ships is still manufacturable, but not at that tiny scale.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/06/30 08:06:53


Post by: ArcaneHorror


 Duskweaver wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm curious about the Red Corsairs' symbol. In the current lore, it's that awesome fist in the air, but in the Honsou stories, we see it be some kind of red cross. To be fair, most of the CSM wearing the cross were the equivalent of neophytes, so I'm wondering if the cross is a symbol of someone having just joined the Corsairs or if at the time the stories were written, GW had their symbol be canonically different.

Old fluff was that the RCs didn't have a 'chapter' symbol or colours. Individual RC marines just painted red crosses over their previous loyalist chapter heraldry. The unified red-and-black colour scheme and clawed fist icon are (5th edition IIRC) retcons.

Red Corsairs in the second 3rd edition CSM codex:
http://redelf.narod.ru/pi/w40k/ia/rsm_chapters_02.jpg


Ok, I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Maybe the fluff can be combined so that new recruits just have the cross, but after a fixed period of time to prove their skill and loyalty, they get the fist icon.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/07/05 09:59:11


Post by: Lord Damocles


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while: how big are the smallest warp-capable ships? In an imperial navy fleet, escort ships are still kilometers long and carry crews in the tens of thousands.

Are there warp-capable ships that aren't the size of a small city? Something an inquisitor would use to travel discreetly for example?


The novel Eye of Terror has a warp capable ship that can land on a planet. The only crew are the Rogue Trader who owns it and a navigator. This ship makes a few warp trips without refueling, if I recall, and was generally treated like a Mellinneum Falcon type.

The Warhammer Adventures seies has multiple similar ships - the Scriptor is seemingly crewed by Elise, Erasmus, and two children; the Profiteer is crewed by Amity and a single sevitor; and the Zealot's Heart appears to be crewed by Inquisitor Jeremias and a servo skull.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/15 21:01:04


Post by: roboemperor


What's stopping Necrons from just copying and pasting themselves?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/15 21:15:37


Post by: Tyran


I'm pretty sure Necrons don't work that way.

Also resources.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/16 02:38:17


Post by: roboemperor


 Tyran wrote:
I'm pretty sure Necrons don't work that way.

Also resources.


They go blah blah blah personality matrix, personality data, high quality body for soldiers, low quality body for everyone else.

So why can't they just copy a personality data and paste it into a high quality body to get 9999999 necron heroes instead of random mooks with less skills.

Not to mention Trazyn and the like jumps from body to body. That means copy and paste.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/16 03:21:27


Post by: Tyran


Trazyn still only can exist in one body at a time. Whatever metaphysical properties that define Necron individuals, while transferable, are not duplicable.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/17 21:13:56


Post by: Terran Cow God


I have seen comments about how the Imperium is in a "Dark age of Technology" - how, for instance, a person would find a drive a car until it ran out of fuel, and then they would pray for it to start working again, otherwise leaving it alone, not knowing how to refuel. Same for weapons - fire until empty, then pray it works again, then throw it away. I've heard it called 'tech heresy' when someone hits the wrong 'trigger' on a gun and a box falls out of it, breaking it... or is it only heresy when you pick the box back up and put it back in? In any case, it is definitely heresy if you take another box that looks similar and put it in instead.

I actually like the man-powered battleship cannon loaders. I like the horse cavalry imperial guard. But guardsmen who do not know how their own equipment works is where I draw the line on suspension of disbelief - maybe an unpopular opinion. It reminds me of that idea that the Inquisition kills anyone who even knows about Chaos, which would basically be everyone (I had read that somewhere, I had also read that it was just purely untrue) - same thing here.

here is a quote about the Chem Dogs: "They have been known to strip weapons from vehicles and proceed on foot when fuel is low, or replace broken machine parts with similarly-shaped pieces of scrap. Though effective, such practices have seen more than a few Savlar officers executed for heresy by the Adeptus Mechanicus"

here is a quote about the Cadians: "Any Cadian who can't field-strip his own lasgun by age ten was born on the wrong planet."

here is a quote from "Drill Abbot Kross Vorgt" speaking to students at the Schola Progenium: "No no no! By the Throne, boy, how many times? Depress the loading catch before removing the drum feed, not while removing the drum feed! You'll jam the weapon! (smack) Oh stop bawling, child. You're ten years old, you should have learned basic Autogun procedures by now. Fifty press ups and fifty Pax Imperiums. And certainly there will be no dinner"

I believe there would be planets under the Adeptus Mechanicus control that are kept so controlled and so ignorant... maybe also Some feudal worlds are like this. But I can't believe that 50% or 90% or 99% of the Imperium is like this. Certainly the Catachans wouldn't survive their own planet without 'forbidden' knowledge.

edit: wanted to add, I do like the Adeptus Mechanicus secret reasoning of 'if you replace the wrong part, we ALL get doomed by AI again' for enforcing these laws.

TLR: replacing parts on broken equipment is tech heresy... but are tech heresy 'laws' so widely enforced, or only on some planets, only when the Adeptus Mechanicus is 'in the same room with you'?

Is this a lore contradiction, oversight, or have I missed something (like, for instance, if 'different worlds are different')?

PS: I'm also curious how Primaris tech was developed, with regard to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Thanks for reading!


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/17 21:42:32


Post by: pelicaniforce


Terran Cow God wrote:
I have seen comments about how the Imperium is in a "Dark age of Technology" - how, for instance, a person would find a drive a car until it ran out of fuel, and then they would pray for it to start working again, otherwise leaving it alone, not knowing how to refuel. Same for weapons - fire until empty, then pray it works again, then throw it away. I've heard it called 'tech heresy' when someone hits the wrong 'trigger' on a gun and a box falls out of it, breaking it... or is it only heresy when you pick the box back up and put it back in? In any case, it is definitely heresy if you take another box that looks similar and put it in instead.

Is this a lore contradiction, oversight, or have I missed something (like, for instance, if 'different worlds are different')?

PS: I'm also curious how Primaris tech was developed, with regard to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Thanks for reading!


You’d have to take a look at where you saw those comments. They don’t seem to be anything Citadel/GW have ever published, and definitely don’t agree with stuff they have.

It’s entirely political. The Martian priesthood is a political organization and they use political and military action to prevent anyone else from doing research, as a means of consolidating power. I don’t think those ideas you mentioned about fueling trucks mean anything


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/17 22:27:29


Post by: Tiennos


The AdMech is a cult, it treats machines as sacred (so fiddling with one without authorization is sacrilege) and their handling as religious ceremony. So you can do maintenance, as long as you use the sacred oils and incense, untighten the screws in the correct order while reciting the appropriate litanies to appease the machine spirit and only use replacement parts properly sanctioned by a techpriest. Basically, imagine people blindly following an instruction manual where every step has been ritualized and some other pointless steps have been added for no clear reason. The more advanced procedures are only known by fully-fledged techpriests. The highest ranking ones may even know actual science and understand how stuff works, but regular people don't really know what they're doing and can only repeat what they've learned.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/17 22:36:47


Post by: solkan


Terran Cow God wrote:
I have seen comments about how the Imperium is in a "Dark age of Technology" - how, for instance, a person would find a drive a car until it ran out of fuel, and then they would pray for it to start working again, otherwise leaving it alone, not knowing how to refuel. Same for weapons - fire until empty, then pray it works again, then throw it away. I've heard it called 'tech heresy' when someone hits the wrong 'trigger' on a gun and a box falls out of it, breaking it... or is it only heresy when you pick the box back up and put it back in? In any case, it is definitely heresy if you take another box that looks similar and put it in instead.


You've got to remember a few things:
1. It's a really big galaxy. That's going to cause regional variation.
2. Over time and from different authors, the rules can differ.
3. Uncontrolled innovations in technology led to things in the past like the Machine Men, and the Dark Age of Technology. No one knows where the tipping point is, so any number of innovations are deemed dangerous and stomped out before they can spread.

So you end up with a tech priesthood responsible for preserving technology and stamping out innovative uses of that technology to avoid unknown doom. Of course, it's something that's subject to political manipulation and infighting.

I think one of the better examples of the conflict over tech heresy was over a Predator or Rhino variant that the Space Wolves ended up bodging together. I think the variant was in service for about a decade before the Adeptus Mechanicus gave their approval of the variant, citing some obscure STC fragment for justification that the variant wasn't "new".

On the other hand, "you pressed the wrong lever and the ammo box fell out" isn't an example of tech heresy but the "ignorance is our strength" defense against tech heresy. If you don't try to understand how something works, and just work with it how you've been told to, then nothing bad will happen. If you follow the instructions improperly, that's a risk of accidental innovation, but it's mostly harmless and just shows that the person isn't sufficiently pious and probably needs to be brought back in line.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/17 22:42:44


Post by: beast_gts


Terran Cow God wrote:
PS: I'm also curious how Primaris tech was developed, with regard to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Thanks for reading!

Very short version - Guilliman tasked Archmagos Belisarius Cawl with improving Marines immediately after the HH. Cawl had Guilliman's authority to act (plus the Emperor's original Primarch / Marine 'blueprints'), but when Guilliman went into stasis Cawl continued in the shadows. The AdMech had very little idea what Cawl was up to, and some consider him a heretic.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 00:13:15


Post by: Tyran


Worse, he is a scientist!



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 00:41:26


Post by: chromedog


The Eldar DO hold worlds. They aren't ALL on craftworlds.
The Exodites were the first to flee from the coming disaster (they saw the signs that their empire was going to implode and decided to bug out. The first exodus, hence exodites) and fled to the colony worlds on the furthest reaches of their old empire.
These planets are reachable via ship and/or webway

Then there are the maiden worlds. Worlds created for use by eldar colonists, but many have since been corrupted by the lesser races.

There are also the crone worlds, where rangers and pathfinders travel to in order to recover soul stones. These were the original homeworlds. Sundered by the calamity.

The craftworlders were the ones who heeded the exodite warnings, but only just made it out of the coming calamity. They are the ones who live on ginormous sailing cities (too large to travel within the webway, they sail the galactic winds.)


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 03:49:53


Post by: Voss


beast_gts wrote:
Terran Cow God wrote:
PS: I'm also curious how Primaris tech was developed, with regard to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Thanks for reading!

Very short version - Guilliman tasked Archmagos Belisarius Cawl with improving Marines immediately after the HH. Cawl had Guilliman's authority to act (plus the Emperor's original Primarch / Marine 'blueprints'), but when Guilliman went into stasis Cawl continued in the shadows. The AdMech had very little idea what Cawl was up to, and some consider him a heretic.


Slightly longer version: keep in mind Guiliman recruited him back post-Heresy. Cawl is _old_. Well. The non-replaceable parts of him are old. But it means that he has the Mechanicum mindset, not the Adeptus Mechanicus mindset.
Also, Cawl worked on parts of the original marine project. Well, more or less. But he was one of the most qualified people to do the work at the time, and is probably the only such person at M41. Well, and Fabius Bile.
Cawl's process was still mostly trial and error. Both Indomitus and Avenging Son go into the process from the POV of the Primaris subject, and they aren't fun. Sharp memories of torturous experiments before going back to sleep, and hypnoinduction dreams, where they're tasked to fight (and lose) against various xenos threats, over and over again. If they do well, the simulation becomes more difficult.

Longer answer: Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work by Guy Haley.

I still think GW would have done better by introducing him earlier (so he's less out of nowhere, same with primaris), but fully fleshed out, he works pretty well in the established setting.


Terran Cow God wrote:I have seen comments about how the Imperium is in a "Dark age of Technology" - how, for instance, a person would find a drive a car until it ran out of fuel, and then they would pray for it to start working again, otherwise leaving it alone, not knowing how to refuel. Same for weapons - fire until empty, then pray it works again, then throw it away. I've heard it called 'tech heresy' when someone hits the wrong 'trigger' on a gun and a box falls out of it, breaking it... or is it only heresy when you pick the box back up and put it back in? In any case, it is definitely heresy if you take another box that looks similar and put it in instead.

None of those are true. For example, lasgun battery packs get tossed in a fire to recharge in the field (though the Ad Mech frowns on this practice). Yes, they're that durable, and yes the battery pack converts enough thermal energy to store and use as laser blasts.
Complex technology is largely above the 'lower orders,' but most people know how to operate day to day stuff. [With the caveat that the 'day to day' tech of a ship crewman and a grox farmer are very different]. But no one is discarding unfueled cards and empty guns. (Indeed, for a guardsmen, 'discarding your gun' means punishment duty or just plain getting shot).
Giving a glitchy machine a good solid thump (percussive maintenance) is a casual reaction used by multiple people.

Now taking things apart when its not your job, and putting it back together in a different way? That is tech heresy.
If you're lucky, an Ad Mech high-up takes notices and you get training and some robes. Elsewise you get the joy of being a servitor.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 09:06:23


Post by: DalekCheese


Terran Cow God wrote:
I have seen comments about how the Imperium is in a "Dark age of Technology" - how, for instance, a person would find a drive a car until it ran out of fuel, and then they would pray for it to start working again, otherwise leaving it alone, not knowing how to refuel. Same for weapons - fire until empty, then pray it works again, then throw it away. I've heard it called 'tech heresy' when someone hits the wrong 'trigger' on a gun and a box falls out of it, breaking it... or is it only heresy when you pick the box back up and put it back in? In any case, it is definitely heresy if you take another box that looks similar and put it in instead.

I actually like the man-powered battleship cannon loaders. I like the horse cavalry imperial guard. But guardsmen who do not know how their own equipment works is where I draw the line on suspension of disbelief - maybe an unpopular opinion. It reminds me of that idea that the Inquisition kills anyone who even knows about Chaos, which would basically be everyone (I had read that somewhere, I had also read that it was just purely untrue) - same thing here.


The Imperium isn’t in a Dark Age of Technology- that’s their name for an age roughly 25,000-20,000 years ago.

A person with a car would know how to operate the car, and how to refuel it; they just likely wouldn’t know the in-and-outs of the internal combustion engine (and even if they did, it wouldn’t be tech-heresy).

A lascharge coming out of a lasgun IS NOT tech-heresy. Nor is putting it back in. I’d like to know where you got that.

What happens to those who know about Chaos has varied through the years- sometimes it’s instant death, others it’s a non-issue. Not everybody knows of Chaos.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 12:28:06


Post by: Tiennos


It's worth pointing out that the Dark Age of Technology is called "dark" because it relied heavily on artificial intelligence and androids, which ended the same way any sci-fi story involving robots (and not written by Asimov) does. From a scientific point of view, humanity at that point was way more enlightened than the Imperium has ever been. But at least they've learned their lesson; AI now stands for "abominable intelligence" and is the most heretic thing known to the Adeptus Mechanicus.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 21:25:10


Post by: Voss


 Tiennos wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the Dark Age of Technology is called "dark" because it relied heavily on artificial intelligence and androids, which ended the same way any sci-fi story involving robots (and not written by Asimov) does. From a scientific point of view, humanity at that point was way more enlightened than the Imperium has ever been. But at least they've learned their lesson; AI now stands for "abominable intelligence" and is the most heretic thing known to the Adeptus Mechanicus.


Its more 'Dark' in the sense of Dark Ages or Dark Continent, i.e. the people back home writing histories and using the term don't know much about it. More myth and legend than fact.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/18 23:05:35


Post by: CKO


Who have personalities with Necrons?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/20 12:34:48


Post by: Matt Swain


I'm not sure what you meant about who have personalities with necrons but it's obvious necrons and humans can and do have dealings at time in non hostile manners.

There's always 'word of the silent king" in which a chapter master and the silent king made an arrangement, the silent king even imparted worlds of wisdom and encouragement to dante at the end.

Belisarius cawl had dealings with Trazyn, and trazyn even gave him the secret of activating necron obelisks, and it obviously worked as cawl did activate them on cadia if a few minutes or hours too late.

Now for trazyn to give what sure seems like a major clue to necron technology to cawl shows necrons can choose to work with humans(?) when it's beneficial.

I'd love a book that went into detail on that.

In the 83 codex there was a bit tht made it cheal there was a summit between necrons and the imperium, it was where the necron threatened to bury a human with scarabs if he disrespected them again, and it was said to have occurred at a summit.

So there can be some personal interactions between humans and necrons that are non hostile.







Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/20 15:38:39


Post by: CKO


Reanimation protocol what is it to you? I have seen it as instant repair and I have seen it as a sequence of events that involves teleportation, repairing, and than re-deployment. Is there a right or wrong answer?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/21 06:54:10


Post by: roboemperor


Are necron pariahs retconned? Or just never mentioned? Former means they don't exist, latter means they're "failed experiments"


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/22 00:56:55


Post by: solkan


 CKO wrote:
Reanimation protocol what is it to you? I have seen it as instant repair and I have seen it as a sequence of events that involves teleportation, repairing, and than re-deployment. Is there a right or wrong answer?


It's both.

Back in the first codex, models got a self-repair roll on their own. If they teleported through a monolith, they got to roll for self-repair again. I guess that function has shifted to the Ghost Arc instead.

And then you've got the various things like the Canoptek Spyders running around fixing various models...


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/22 04:43:27


Post by: Voss


 CKO wrote:
Reanimation protocol what is it to you? I have seen it as instant repair and I have seen it as a sequence of events that involves teleportation, repairing, and than re-deployment. Is there a right or wrong answer?


Definitely both. Heavier damage tends to be teleporting out, but various necrons have 'gotten up' from everything from lasguns to lascannons, and all types of bolters. Collapsing while self-repairs initiate seems fairly common.

Though thinking about it, I'm not sure more recent novels and stories have really described the process as much as they used to.

Indomitus talks about self-repair of necrons only once, and instead focuses a lot more on the power of their weapons. The ships repair a lot (self-repair or by canoptek constructs), but the one reference to warriors is in a summary of what the SM know about necrons which is "their self-repair abilities made them as tough as a Space Marine to disable." That's it.

The more frequent reference (14 times) is to casualities being 'resurrected.' Which is the 'animus' of the warrior being restored to _new_ bodies in orbit. Resurrection actually comes up a lot, though sometimes it refers to a 'resurrection field' around the necron body that can be destroyed or suppressed (usually by the overlord, but in one case the destroyer lord just 'ripped one apart'), and sometimes the ability is aided by canoptek critters. A couple references to 'resurrection ships' as if it were nu-Battlestar Galactica.
Its also stated the one frequent cause of personality death in the warriors is going through the Rez process too many times.

But Indomitus is a weirdly clumsy book. It sometimes get hyper detailed around characters that have models in the Indomitus box, other times it just skips or handwaves descriptions or plot points. Its much more of marketing product than any other GW novel I've read.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/22 07:11:46


Post by: roboemperor


According to this reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/95x97e/explanation_for_necron_pariahs_disappearing/

Pariahs do exist in the universe so they're not retconned. Just deemed a failure by Crypteks and not fielded anymore.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/23 17:23:04


Post by: Lord Damocles


roboemperor wrote:
According to this reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/95x97e/explanation_for_necron_pariahs_disappearing/

Pariahs do exist in the universe so they're not retconned. Just deemed a failure by Crypteks and not fielded anymore.

That second had reference via 1d4chan is bunk.

Caves of Ice is still being published, and features Pariahs.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/25 15:53:58


Post by: macluvin


Is there any chaos legions that sort of get along with other legions? I understand followers of different gods may have vastly different theological differences, and the iron warriors typically don’t trust anyone else, and word bearers probably alienated themselves via their intense evangelicalism, and the black legion... is probably the most likely to be willing to work with anyone, and conscripts anyone that they either subjugate or is willing to rock the eye of Horus...


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/25 17:01:38


Post by: Tyran


Chaos is a dog eat dog philosophy. The legions are broken, even the ones that did not officially fracture are still divided in practice.

The only real loyalty a Chaos Space Marine has is to their god (or gods in Chaos Undivided's case).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/26 22:54:56


Post by: roboemperor


 Lord Damocles wrote:
That second had reference via 1d4chan is bunk.

Caves of Ice is still being published, and features Pariahs.



Just to be clear, Necron Pariahs right? Not normal pariahs.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/27 00:38:15


Post by: Tiennos


roboemperor wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
That second had reference via 1d4chan is bunk.

Caves of Ice is still being published, and features Pariahs.



Just to be clear, Necron Pariahs right? Not normal pariahs.
I guess both if you count Jurgen.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/27 04:31:46


Post by: Voss


 Tyran wrote:
Chaos is a dog eat dog philosophy. The legions are broken, even the ones that did not officially fracture are still divided in practice.

The only real loyalty a Chaos Space Marine has is to their god (or gods in Chaos Undivided's case).

Or no one, in a couple cases.


Though I'd argue Black Legion fractured in the distant past, but is in better shape than its ever been. [Though would probably completely implode if Abaddon died]

Alpha Legion is, of course, the ultimate 'who knows?' situation.

DG and TS have rogue elements, but are pretty cohesive, all things considered.

EC, WE, and NL are definitely wrecked.

Iron Warriors seem in better shaped than those, but are mostly in directionless groups.
Its been a while since I checked on Word Bearers, but they seem amenable to cooperation, but also lack a guiding purpose.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/27 05:04:17


Post by: Tyran


Even with the BL you still have the ambitious Champion or Lord that wants to usurp Abaddon, and the same is true (even with lower stakes) all over the Chaos Legions.

The Gods don't give daemonhood for participation, meaning the ultimate goal of the average Chaos Space Marine can only be achieved by killing their way to glory, and their superiors are ultimately obstacles for that glory.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/09/27 05:51:11


Post by: locarno24


macluvin wrote:
Is there any chaos legions that sort of get along with other legions? I understand followers of different gods may have vastly different theological differences, and the iron warriors typically don’t trust anyone else, and word bearers probably alienated themselves via their intense evangelicalism, and the black legion... is probably the most likely to be willing to work with anyone, and conscripts anyone that they either subjugate or is willing to rock the eye of Horus...


Night lords are pretty fractured as a legion, but they have worked as sellswords for other legions on a large-scale basis.

The black legion and red corsairs have cooperated a few times (Pandora was one), which is a big deal as they're the two largest heretic astartes groups, and the crimson slaughter have worked with the black legion too without ever actually joining it.

Black Legion is very much having others work for it: Abbadon and his chosen always insist on being the dominant party in any alliance.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/10/01 09:07:58


Post by: roboemperor


Dawn of War says Necrons turn Imperial Guardsmen into Necron Warriors.

Are there any other instances of non-pariahs turning into necrons?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/10/01 09:15:29


Post by: Super Ready


roboemperor wrote:
Dawn of War says Necrons turn Imperial Guardsmen into Necron Warriors.
Are there any other instances of non-pariahs turning into necrons?


Say whaaaaaa? I don't remember this, although it HAS been a long time since I played Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
In any case, the games aren't exactly canon - they were written by the developers, not by GW themselves, and while they clearly come from a place of love there's some artistic license in there for good measure too.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/10/04 18:10:36


Post by: roboemperor


 Super Ready wrote:
Say whaaaaaa? I don't remember this, although it HAS been a long time since I played Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
In any case, the games aren't exactly canon - they were written by the developers, not by GW themselves, and while they clearly come from a place of love there's some artistic license in there for good measure too.


All officialy licenced wh40k is canon unless specifically said to be a what if story.

Shas'O Kais, a character from Dark Crusade, is also in the novel War of Secrets where he kicks an entire Astartes chapter's ass by himself.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/10/05 14:41:05


Post by: Tyran


Dawn of War is also quite old, predating the retcons of the 5th edition.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/10/12 21:45:57


Post by: roboemperor


In Gladius, the Tau were in the warp and your ship was saved by a "many-handed" warp entity and thrown to Gladius.

What is this many-handed warp entity?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/10/13 19:30:12


Post by: Lord Damocles


 Super Ready wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
Dawn of War says Necrons turn Imperial Guardsmen into Necron Warriors.
Are there any other instances of non-pariahs turning into necrons?


Say whaaaaaa? I don't remember this, although it HAS been a long time since I played Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
In any case, the games aren't exactly canon - they were written by the developers, not by GW themselves, and while they clearly come from a place of love there's some artistic license in there for good measure too.

The canon parts of the games are canon; but the Necron ending of Dark Crusade and Soulstorm aren't canon - the Marines and Orks win respectively.

Also, the Necron victory over the Imperial Guard in Soulstorm doesn't actually say that the Guardsmen are turned into Necrons - only that the day after the battle the bodies of the humans are gone, and there are a bunch of new Warriors and Monoliths int heir place.


In Severed, Setekh's skolopendra (hunting beasts) were transferred into mechanical bodies, so there is precedent for non-Necrontyr undergoing at least a form of biotransference.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/04 00:34:52


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


So Marine squads are from 5-10 Marines strong. Like Tactical Squad is by default 5 Marines strong but can be increased to 10 Marines strong.

Which in canon lore is the default Codex compliant size for a squad, five or ten Astartes?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/04 01:58:42


Post by: Super Ready


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
So Marine squads are from 5-10 Marines strong. Like Tactical Squad is by default 5 Marines strong but can be increased to 10 Marines strong.
Which in canon lore is the default Codex compliant size for a squad, five or ten Astartes?

10 default as dictated by the Codex Astartes - but the option to combat squad into 2x5 has rules and fluff support going all the way back to 2nd edition, too. The idea was that the second combat squad's leader - literally called the "squad leader" - was basically a Sergeant in training.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/06 06:38:25


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


So where would Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Lion El Johnson have stood in the argument of breaking up the Legions?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/08 02:11:09


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
So where would Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Lion El Johnson have stood in the argument of breaking up the Legions?
In my opinion, Sanguinius would have been personally opposed, but would agree that it was the right course of action in the end. Ferrus Manus would violently disagree with the breaking up of the Legions, and as for The Lion, who can tell with how broken his psyche was at the end of the Heresy.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/19 11:10:05


Post by: Kayback


Question.

Most Marine Chapters and indeed most Imperial Guard regiments seem to recruit from single biome worlds. I get that the "theme" of each unit requires it, Space Wolves need a Viking style, Valhalla needs ice warriors for winter gear and blah blah but how often are single biome worlds found?

With Earth as a standard we've got everything from Tallarn Desert, ice bound tundras, jungles, landlocked steppes, archipelagos...

This has some bearing on my home brew IG and SM. Both are recruited from the same planet, but because I'm a bit of an eclectic collector more than modeller or player I've got a mix and match of Space Wolves, Ultras, Thousand Sons, Catachan, Cadian, Praetorians, Sisters of Battle... so I need some way of mixing them all together "canonically".


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/19 14:57:12


Post by: Tyran


Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/19 16:27:41


Post by: Overread


I think Single Biome Worlds are rare, but typically a world appears to follow a set style that dominates their biomes. Plus we typically only get a very short glance at a world in many stories and often only one region so they can appear quiet monoculture. Whilst if you get a longer story the world often develops more because the story has more time to get to new places and show the variation.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/19 16:30:02


Post by: beast_gts


 Tyran wrote:
Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.


I wonder if it's a side-effect of terraforming (and we know Fenris was engineered to be that way).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/20 20:21:16


Post by: DalekCheese


Kayback wrote:
Question.

Most Marine Chapters and indeed most Imperial Guard regiments seem to recruit from single biome worlds. I get that the "theme" of each unit requires it, Space Wolves need a Viking style, Valhalla needs ice warriors for winter gear and blah blah but how often are single biome worlds found?

With Earth as a standard we've got everything from Tallarn Desert, ice bound tundras, jungles, landlocked steppes, archipelagos...

This has some bearing on my home brew IG and SM. Both are recruited from the same planet, but because I'm a bit of an eclectic collector more than modeller or player I've got a mix and match of Space Wolves, Ultras, Thousand Sons, Catachan, Cadian, Praetorians, Sisters of Battle... so I need some way of mixing them all together "canonically".


An SM chapter will, in fluff, be monoculture. There’s only a thousand of them and they’re taken and trained from a very young age.
A world’s Guard regiments will typically be trained together, resulting in uniform... uniforms.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/20 20:27:45


Post by: BaconCatBug


I mean, you could always run with counts-as Deathwatch rules, and handwave it as a grab-bag marine force of a handful of units that got isolated somewhere.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/20 20:38:06


Post by: beast_gts


There was an old (3rd?) idea for a Marine Crusade force, where every squad could be from a different Chapter.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/20 22:37:28


Post by: Kayback


 DalekCheese wrote:

An SM chapter will, in fluff, be monoculture. There’s only a thousand of them and they’re taken and trained from a very young age.



A world’s Guard regiments will typically be trained together, resulting in uniform... uniforms.

I'm handwaving that away as the in-country-too-long vets (Catachan), the noobs (Cadians), various "Special Forces" (Praetorians = Colour Guard, Vostroyans = Grenadiers, Kasrkin/Storm Troopers = Storm Troopers).

The SM chapter is mostly mono, It's mostly animal hide and wolf pelts. I've used various bits of Chaos Warriors (WHFB) and Chaos Marines (Thousand Sons pieces mixed in here and there) to go for a more barbaric and eclectic mix, but still loyal. Death Watch heavy on the iconography (Because it is pretty). It's quite amazing what you can unify with a single palette.

Thanks for the replies though. I'm likely never to fanfic my HomeBrew. If I play again outside of my own family I'll probably "counts as Space Wolves" or something as that's what many of them are.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/21 00:12:44


Post by: Rosebuddy


 Tyran wrote:
Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.


In the case of 40K, you can always blame it on imperfect terraforming attempts during the Dark Age of Technology. Maybe some unfathomable nano-system or contraption deep below the crust keeps the planet as locked into a single biome as its relation to its sun allows for? Maybe many of the ice and desert worlds are remnants of the Age of Strife? Maybe planetary climate systems were hacked and set to roast or freeze its inhabitants instead of providing comfortable temperate forest and plains. If a world has its defence guns up then maybe you can't bomb it but you do have a newly discovered security vulnerability.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/21 00:47:51


Post by: Tyran


Even in such scenarios you wouldn't have a single biome.

E.g. a desert world would be only inhabitable on the poles, while the equatorial zone would be a literal death zone.

And the opposite would be true for an ice world.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/21 12:16:25


Post by: Esmer


roboemperor wrote:
In Gladius, the Tau were in the warp and your ship was saved by a "many-handed" warp entity and thrown to Gladius.

What is this many-handed warp entity?


There was a BL novel (don't remember which) which said that the Tau Empire's collective belief in the Greater Good had created a "Greater Good" deity, which appeared as a many-handed Tau Celestial with an expressionless mask (think a Hindu deity of some sort).

That fluff was mostly badly received, because the idea that such a numerically tiny faction as the Tau Empire are capable of creating Warp Gods (nevermind the fact that the Tau themselves have almost no psychic presence) doesn't really fit - if it worked like this, then the Emperor should have risen to godhood many, many times over the last 10,000 years. And of course the Eldar, being dozens of magnitudes more psychically gifted then the Tau, should be busy churning out gods on a regular basis.

I was under the impression that this piece of lore had quietly been dropped.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/21 13:05:19


Post by: The_Grim_Angel


 Tyran wrote:
Even in such scenarios you wouldn't have a single biome.

E.g. a desert world would be only inhabitable on the poles, while the equatorial zone would be a literal death zone.

And the opposite would be true for an ice world.

In the reality it is extremely difficult to have a single biome world, due to the fact that a lot of conditions must be verified simultaneously: the orientation of the planet's axis, the distance between the planet and its sun, the distribution of the world's land surfaces, the intensity of the solar activity and so on. But generally speaking we could say if a planet were enough distant from its sun and its continents are located at its poles, then that planet should have a polar biome. Instead if a planet were enough near to its sun and if all its landmasses were located between the tropics, then that planet should be a tropical world, if it those landmasses were islands or it should be a desert world, if those lands would be gathered together in a single supercontinent.

 Esmer wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
In Gladius, the Tau were in the warp and your ship was saved by a "many-handed" warp entity and thrown to Gladius.

What is this many-handed warp entity?


There was a BL novel (don't remember which) which said that the Tau Empire's collective belief in the Greater Good had created a "Greater Good" deity, which appeared as a many-handed Tau Celestial with an expressionless mask (think a Hindu deity of some sort).

That fluff was mostly badly received, because the idea that such a numerically tiny faction as the Tau Empire are capable of creating Warp Gods (nevermind the fact that the Tau themselves have almost no psychic presence) doesn't really fit - if it worked like this, then the Emperor should have risen to godhood many, many times over the last 10,000 years. And of course the Eldar, being dozens of magnitudes more psychically gifted then the Tau, should be busy churning out gods on a regular basis.

I was under the impression that this piece of lore had quietly been dropped.

I think we can hypothesize this "God of the Greater Good" is a lesser deity, but it will be able to become more and more powerful as other alien races were converted to the philosophy of the Greater Good.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/21 17:00:33


Post by: Tyran


The Greater Good God is an intrinsic part of the 4th sphere lore, it is here to stay.

Although funnily enough the god is more a product of the more physically active client species of the Tau than the Tau themselves.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/22 13:10:12


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


Would the Imperium be likely to accept loyal clones of traitor Primarchs into their ranks? Like there is a clone of Fulgrim who has lots of regrets on what his real self has done.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/22 14:02:28


Post by: Esmer


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Would the Imperium be likely to accept loyal clones of traitor Primarchs into their ranks? Like there is a clone of Fulgrim who has lots of regrets on what his real self has done.


Maybe they'll accept the clone's honest regrets before muder-purging him in holy flames for being both a traitor AND a clone and thus EXTRA-heretical. That's a big maybe though.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/22 14:42:18


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Would the Imperium be likely to accept loyal clones of traitor Primarchs into their ranks? Like there is a clone of Fulgrim who has lots of regrets on what his real self has done.
No, because they wouldn't accept them.

And even ignoring that, the Primarchs were, intentionally, created with flaws. A clone of Fulgrim would, without fail, fall down the same path of "I love the Emperor, the Emperor doesn't love me, feth it, time to worship Chaos!"

It's all but confirmed that the Heresy was manufactured to cull the Astartes the same way the Thunder Warriors were culled. The Emperor just didn't plan well enough. Or maybe this was his plan all along!


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/22 18:40:31


Post by: The_Grim_Angel


If I remember correctly in the novel Dark Imperium someone suggested to create some primaris marines using also the geneseed of the traitor primarchs (and/or the geneseed of the unknown ones), but Reboot Gilligan refused, so I think the answer is no.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/22 21:24:10


Post by: Voss


The_Grim_Angel wrote:
If I remember correctly in the novel Dark Imperium someone suggested to create some primaris marines using also the geneseed of the traitor primarchs (and/or the geneseed of the unknown ones), but Reboot Gilligan refused, so I think the answer is no.


Though, on new loyal 'traitor' primaris chapters, I can see Cawl doing it anyway somewhere remote just to see how they work out. If he set up a facility in the Imperium Nihilius and just didn't bother to tell Roboute about it... he'd get his experimental data, and no one in that area would spend too much time questioning reinforcements.

Science can't be stalled by one man, Regent Lord or no.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/25 19:48:53


Post by: The_Grim_Angel


Maybe it is a silly question, but do you know if the thunder warriors had families and children?
I haven't found any information about that question and I'm curious.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/25 20:17:18


Post by: xerxeskingofking


The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Maybe it is a silly question, but do you know if the thunder warriors had families and children?
I haven't found any information about that question and I'm curious.


we know so little about them, its not stated, but given their nature as disposable shock troops, i'd suggest no, at least not post-modification.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/25 20:23:09


Post by: Thadin


Thunder Warriors were "created from adult male supporters of the Emperor rather than adolescents" according to a wiki article. If they were indeed made from Adults, then there's a chance that they had families and children before becoming a Thunder Warrior. However, after the transformation, there isn't anything that explains their physical... capabilities in that regard. It may be safe to assume that, since they're the basis for Space Marines, albiet far more unstable, there is a chance for it to go either way, depending on particular Thunder Warriors. Or, go the other way and say that they're sterile like the Space Marines.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 15:37:12


Post by: Kayback


What's the reason Traitor Marines don't use Xeno weapons? The Inquisition isn't likely to come down on them any harder.

Marines with Tau plasma rifles? They would have given the Firstborn a run for their money.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 15:44:03


Post by: beast_gts


Kayback wrote:
What's the reason Traitor Marines don't use Xeno weapons? The Inquisition isn't likely to come down on them any harder.

I would guess supply lines and/or attachment to their bolters. 30k Blackshields have the option of taking 'Unsanctioned Weaponry', which can be either modified or Xenos weapons.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 15:56:38


Post by: Pacific


Kayback wrote:
What's the reason Traitor Marines don't use Xeno weapons? The Inquisition isn't likely to come down on them any harder.

Marines with Tau plasma rifles? They would have given the Firstborn a run for their money.


Codex balance/rule limitations and what different miniature options you can fit into a standard box/sprue

You're right - wouldn't be anything to stop them at all.
Soldiers, especially those that have cast off the yoke of the Imperium, are pretty much always going to go for the weapon that gives them the biggest boom (the 'forbidden tech' shield that keeps them alive or whatever)
I suppose the bolter is a pretty formidable weapon by itself (especially for the type of warfare that Marines carry out) but you can totally imagine individual warriors having come across both xenos or even dark-age technology in their travels and employing it. And it might be like the 'Alien Blaster' you can find in Fallout, you know you're not going to get endless shots with it so you keep it in its holster for when you come up against something especially tough!


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 16:02:28


Post by: Tyran


Traitor Marines tend to be even more xenophobic than Loyalist ones, so it is very likely a case of hating the alien and alien tech.

Also Tau plasma rifles are weaker than human ones. They are safer and more reliable, but the boys in spikes didn't become the boys in spikes that literally sold their souls to empowered weakness (AKA Chaos) by taking the safer and reliable choice.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 16:19:43


Post by: Kayback


All good points, thanks.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 16:30:48


Post by: Aash


Also there’s the size issue. Human/tau sized weapons would be comically small in space marine hands.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/26 17:01:02


Post by: Kayback


Aash wrote:
Also there’s the size issue. Human/tau sized weapons would be comically small in space marine hands.


I had thought of that but I'm guessing a TM wouldn't be beyond removing the trigger guard on a Plasma Rifle. I mean they aren't known for following safety protocols. And they do have armourers. Turning a Plasma Rifle into a "heavy plasma pistol" shouldn't take too much effort.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/27 17:28:33


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


Is there any explanation to why individual SM Chapters are so much better supplied fleet-wise as opposed to SM Legion chapter counterparts?

I mean an ordinary Chapter may have like 2 to 3 battle barges and 7-10 strike cruisers plus escorts for all of them.

Where as in SM Legions for instance the Death Guard had 70 capital ships and 210 escorts. And they had 95 Chapters worth of Marines. Yet a single Chapter has a seventh of the entire fleet strength of a legion. And some legions had even smaller fleets.

I mean given the whole thing in 40k era about tech breaking down and regressing from 30k era with less new stuff being built to replace it, I don't get why suddenly Space Marines have managed to inflate their fleet size several times over.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/27 17:36:21


Post by: Pacific


 Tyran wrote:
Traitor Marines tend to be even more xenophobic than Loyalist ones, so it is very likely a case of hating the alien and alien tech.


Not necessarily. The very fact that they are no longer loyalists means that they have turned away from a blinkered/dogmatic view of the universe. I would say if anything they are more likely to make use of non-standard approaches to both wargear and warfare.
Also 'renegade' does not always necessarily mean they have turned to Chaos; look at the Chapters involved in the Badab War or the Soul Drinkers for example.

If you're a renegade group of marines on the run from Loyalist chapters trying to hunt you down, Inquisitors, and still fighting whatever Xenos come your way I think you would take a long hard look at any advantages you can get.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/27 17:36:38


Post by: xerxeskingofking


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Is there any explanation to why individual SM Chapters are so much better supplied fleet-wise as opposed to SM Legion chapter counterparts?

I mean an ordinary Chapter may have like 2 to 3 battle barges and 7-10 strike cruisers plus escorts for all of them.

Where as in SM Legions for instance the Death Guard had 70 capital ships and 210 escorts. And they had 95 Chapters worth of Marines. Yet a single Chapter has a seventh of the entire fleet strength of a legion. And some legions had even smaller fleets.

I mean given the whole thing in 40k era about tech breaking down and regressing from 30k era with less new stuff being built to replace it, I don't get why suddenly Space Marines have managed to inflate their fleet size several times over.


Best i can suggest is that crusade era marines would often make use of imperial navy vessels as transports as the strict separation of guard, navy and marines was a post heresy thing. Thus they would heavily intermix the services whenever they wanted or needed to


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/11/27 17:48:36


Post by: Tyran


 Pacific wrote:


Not necessarily. The very fact that they are no longer loyalists means that they have turned away from a blinkered/dogmatic view of the universe.

And adopted a worse one. Moreover, Chaos Marines didn't turn away of the IoM's dogmatic views regarding Xenos, they turned away because they wanted power, they wanted to kill, enslave and do all that bad things we associate with Chaos. They turned away to become worse.

I would say if anything they are more likely to make use of non-standard approaches to both wargear and warfare.

Also 'renegade' does not always necessarily mean they have turned to Chaos; look at the Chapters involved in the Badab War or the Soul Drinkers for example.


It means that 99% of the time, that's why the rules for Renegade Chapters are in the Chaos Space Marine codex. As for those examples? a considerable portion of the Marines involved ended going to Chaos anyway.

If you're a renegade group of marines on the run from Loyalist chapters trying to hunt you down, Inquisitors, and still fighting whatever Xenos come your way I think you would take a long hard look at any advantages you can get.

And the other side of the argument is that xeno weaponry is not usually an advantage. Aside of the logistical issues such weaponry represents, the most potent xeno weaponry is found in factions that a renegade group of Marines has no place fighting. Such group attempting to raid a Eldar Craftworld or an Necron Tombworld is very quickly going to find themselves dead.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/02 23:15:04


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


For how long the Dark Angels were the only legion before the other legions were founded?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/02 23:30:54


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
For how long the Dark Angels were the only legion before the other legions were founded?
The Dark Angels creation as a legion was at least before "the Third Siege of Antioch in 603.M30". The Great Crusade is slated to have started ~798.M30, by which time all the Legions had been formed (to varying degrees of success). I'd say they'd have at most 100 years as the sole Astartes formation, maybe 120 at most.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels#Unification_Wars
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_Crusade

However while those were Astartes, they weren't actually a Legion just yet. Valdor: Birth of the Imperium (Novel) which states the Palace Coup was "their very first live combat engagement" and occurred ~700.M30, while another source states "At the Siege of Samerkend in 668.M30 the First Legion took to the field en mass publicly for the first time."

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Palace_Coup

During the First Pacification of Luna, in ~798.M30, "The Emperor deployed three Space Marine Legions, VII Legion, XIII Legion, and XVI Legion" so there were at least more legions by that time.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/First_Pacification_of_Luna


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/02 23:41:47


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


So that explains how they got so huge to begin with with having that long a time with no competitor legions to share recruits with despite not having Ultramarines' 500 prosperous worlds backing their recruitment with the admimistrative and logistical savant Guilliman at the helm, or Perturabo's very low-rejection-rate gene-seed backed by Perturabo's mathematical and logistical genius making recruitment very streamlined and effective for the Iron Warriors. And it also explains why Dark Angels never really recovered after their losses in Rangdan Xenocides.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/03 10:34:12


Post by: Pacific


Is there actually any info about on the Rangdan? Lexicanum doesn't have much, not really a settled description of what they looked like, how they waged war and (perhaps the most interesting question) why it seems like they were almost certainly the most dangerous foe faced during the Great Crusade.

Would be a really cool Epic 6mm project, of 'first legion' Dark Angels vs masses of Rangdan, as a huge project (complete with linked BFG and smaller scale 28mm games )


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/03 15:46:13


Post by: Tyran


There was some recent info about them in one of the HH books (for the game, not the series).


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/03 16:00:17


Post by: beast_gts


 Tyran wrote:
There was some recent info about them in one of the HH books (for the game, not the series).

Yep - The Horus Heresy Book 9 – Crusade has stuff on them.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/03 16:34:48


Post by: Pacific


Great stuff - thanks guys.

Now to find a thread on a forum where people are talking about the contents, so I don't have to buy the book and therefore forgo buying a meal over Christmas (with drinks) for a family of four


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/03 17:44:46


Post by: Ketara


 Pacific wrote:
Is there actually any info about on the Rangdan? Lexicanum doesn't have much, not really a settled description of what they looked like, how they waged war and (perhaps the most interesting question) why it seems like they were almost certainly the most dangerous foe faced during the Great Crusade.

Would be a really cool Epic 6mm project, of 'first legion' Dark Angels vs masses of Rangdan, as a huge project (complete with linked BFG and smaller scale 28mm games )


Sure, here's an in depth guide from the Regimental Standard:-



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/04 14:53:06


Post by: Pacific


Thanks for posting Ketara

Sorry for asking but is... that it?

Lucky I didn't buy the book for info about about the Rangdan Xenocides, it would have worked out at £45 per word !


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/04 16:01:03


Post by: Segersgia


 Pacific wrote:
Thanks for posting Ketara

Sorry for asking but is... that it?

Lucky I didn't buy the book for info about about the Rangdan Xenocides, it would have worked out at £45 per word !


What Ketara posted is from Regimental Standard; a little satirical blog made by Warhammer Community.

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/03/28/field-dressing-a-lasgun-wound/

There might be more mentioned in the Horus Heresy books, but don't hope that any of those books go into great detail.



Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/04 17:07:17


Post by: locarno24


It's scattered across multiple books.
A collated version exists here:
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Rangdan_Xenocides


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/04 17:19:53


Post by: Ketara


 Pacific wrote:
Thanks for posting Ketara

Sorry for asking but is... that it?

Lucky I didn't buy the book for info about about the Rangdan Xenocides, it would have worked out at £45 per word !


I was teasing slightly, I'll admit.

Essentially, there's little in the way of substantial sources about the Xenocides that you can just flat out buy. Much like the missing Primarchs, what we have is a series of glimpses and half-references, which make a shadowy whole when put together. In terms of what they looked like or how they made war, they had a variety of means.

First off, they bred and enslaved humans as a slave army on a massive scale. They fitted them all with neural collars which allowed them to be controlled as a cohesive whole (up to 10,000 humans could be controlled by one Rangda). Tactically, these humans were used to tie up and distract the enemy whilst more dedicated units of Rangda soldiers slammed home.The Rangda themselves were large enough to go toe-toe with a Space Marine one and one and carried personal shielding and poisoned blades.

In space, they seem to have deployed robotic technology of a sort ('Stalker Drones') which boarded and gutted enemy ships. They also had many smaller ships called 'war-barques' which deployed electromagnetic/radiation weaponry. Finally, much like Orks, they seem to have been able to hollow out and fortify large space debris like moons and asteroids. In the Battle of Advex-Mors, they actually managed to destroy a Gloriana class ship with one of these.

In terms of more esoteric forces, they deployed gigantic 'Ossieovores' (or Bone-Eaters), Cerbvores (or Brain-Eaters), Basemekanic 'Macrobeests' (some sort of biomechanical space weapon), and Slaugth 'Murder-Minds'. It's unclear if the Slaugth and Basemekanic were subservient to, allies of, or dominators over the Rangda. But given how they deployed humans, it's not unlikely that the Rangda enslaved and made use of (what would be to them) other Xenos on the battlefield.

Given that the Void Dragon was what it took to defeat the Rangda, and it's hinted elsewhere that the Void Dragon seems to have a disgust for bio-mechanical technology? Well, biomechanical is the Slaugth's way of making warfare, so it's not a stretch to think that the Rangda may also have made considerable use of that sort of tech. Hence why the Emperor threw the Dragon at them.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/05 18:55:50


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


What are the most impressive cases of Magnus (prior to becoming a Daemon Prince) using his psyker powers?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/05 19:33:09


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
What are the most impressive cases of Magnus (prior to becoming a Daemon Prince) using his psyker powers?
I mean, there was that one time where he literally caused the Webway gate under the Golden Throne to start spewing daemons like it was going out of style, because he literally punched though the Emperor's most powerful psychic wards.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/05 19:34:43


Post by: The_Grim_Angel


In that case he was helped by the Chaos Gods, even if he didn't know that.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/05 19:37:48


Post by: BaconCatBug


The_Grim_Angel wrote:
In that case he was helped by the Chaos Gods, even if he didn't know that.
Yes, but it was "prior to becoming a Daemon Prince", thus my answer fell within the parameters given.

Also the time he pulled a Giganta and grew to the size of a Warlord Titan so he could punch Ork Gargants to death.


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/13 17:02:57


Post by: roboemperor


How strong are tomb stalkers and tomb sentinels? Like what class are they in?

I know they're not titan class
...dreadnought?
...defiler?
...Obelisk?
...C'tan Shard?
...Stormsurge?
...Riptide?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/15 09:37:22


Post by: Tyzarion_Kronius


Is there any hint on how many Tempestus Scions are there? Billions? A trillion?


Random WH40k Lore Questions @ 2020/12/19 19:10:45


Post by: Kayback


Besides maybe the Grey Knights which SM chapter is closest to the Inquisition?

I'm wanting to make a super Deathwatch heavy army. I am unlikely to every play it again but I want some sort of lore to look into to see how I could maybe go about it