Hey folks, so I've seen some rumourmongering that I'm leaving Games Workshop. In the interest of honesty I will say now that yes, this is true, I am leaving at the end of the year, though I had hoped that it wouldn't have got out until Boxing Day at least...
...but don't panic! For now my plan is to have a nice Christmas holiday and after that, well, we shall see. Anything I get up to will certainly be put up here so that you know straight away.
I'll do my best to drop in to Twitter as often as I can over the next few days to answer any questions but obviously being Christmas everyone has their priorities right now, so enjoy yourself and play a game of Warhammer and charge something in it for me! :-)
Also I'd like to say, I'm truely overwhelmed and humbled by the support the community has given over the years. Making the hobby accessible has been my driving passion in all my time at GW, and I'm so happy that I have helped so many people get into painting their miniatures.
Sad news, as I quite enjoyed his tutorials and personally learned a lot from them, but I wish good luck with his future ventures.
Hey folks, so I've seen some rumourmongering that I'm leaving Games Workshop. In the interest of honesty I will say now that yes, this is true, I am leaving at the end of the year, though I had hoped that it wouldn't have got out until Boxing Day at least...
...but don't panic! For now my plan is to have a nice Christmas holiday and after that, well, we shall see. Anything I get up to will certainly be put up here so that you know straight away.
I'll do my best to drop in to Twitter as often as I can over the next few days to answer any questions but obviously being Christmas everyone has their priorities right now, so enjoy yourself and play a game of Warhammer and charge something in it for me! :-)
Also I'd like to say, I'm truely overwhelmed and humbled by the support the community has given over the years. Making the hobby accessible has been my driving passion in all my time at GW, and I'm so happy that I have helped so many people get into painting their miniatures.
Sad news, as I quite enjoyed his tutorials and personally learned a lot from them, but I wish good luck with his future ventures.
Of all their staff doing painting videos I liked him the most - he was a natural in front of the camera and you could really tell that he was one of the staff who is still really in the full swing of loving his models.
Sad news for us, but hopefully its him getting to move onto bigger and better things in life! Wish him all the luck!
GW is a pretty stifling/corporate place to work. It's not uncommon for quality employees to leave and join other venues or start their own businesses. I'm always quite happy to see someone part ways with GW and strike out on their own in a much more open fashion. If he does leave the hobby, he's done very well by us and he should be applauded for being the "face of GW' for several years.
While GW is the big fish in the pond, they're not a particularly stunning place to work from everything I've heard. There's a reason so many big names from the 90's are no longer working there, but are still in the industry. I'm excited to see what Duncan gets into next.
I'm sure he'll bounce over to Mantic or Warlord. Don't worry about Duncan, he's a great personality and well worth his weight in gold.
These companies should be pit fighting for his caliber of character.
The real question- The painting videos... Who's getting the slot next?
well they've already got other people who do the painting videos, not just duncan.
I kinda hope duncan keeps up doing the painting videos, even if just as part of a personal vlog. might be neat to see him tackling non GW products and using a range of paints beyind just GW paints
I doubt any of the other miniature companies would offer much better pay than GW. Given his natural on screen charisma, I suspect he may try his own online painting videos. With an existing dedicated following, setting up a Patreon with regular painting videos, he can get a good number of followers. I've seen what some of them pull in, and while not a fortune, it's probably better than what GW is paying. That may actually be his plan.
Bit of a bummer, as his videos were always good value. Always enjoyed him better then Peachy or Emma when in front of the camera. Emma never really seemed comfortable and Peachy just doesn't have the same on screen "zazz" that Duncan has.
If only they could get Darren Latham to do their tutorials.
Still, all the best to him, and hopefully he doesn't stray far from the hobby.
Darren Latham's channel is putting out quality content very regularly. Whilst I appreciated a lot of Duncan's vids, nothing really inspired me half as much as Latham's stuff. This may just be because I'm just getting back into painting, but really probably not. He's also very consistent, despite his channel not being official GW (as far as I'm aware).
Well that's sad news to end the year. I have loved Duncan's work in the New GW and credit him as an important part of the more accessible company that exists now.
People always move on in work, but when you are an "internet personality" it always seems more personal to us the viewers.
The old longer format Duncan tutorials were best, and they are still there should we need them.
I still think the putrid blightking 2 part tutorial was the best one WHTV came out with. The quality of the tutorials has been slipping pretty much all year. They used to do in depth guides, plus guides for every necromunda and blood bowl team. They just started half arsing it I guess. This is the least surprising news i've heard in a while though. Cause they've been phasing him out for a while.
silent25 wrote: I doubt any of the other miniature companies would offer much better pay than GW. Given his natural on screen charisma, I suspect he may try his own online painting videos. With an existing dedicated following, setting up a Patreon with regular painting videos, he can get a good number of followers. I've seen what some of them pull in, and while not a fortune, it's probably better than what GW is paying. That may actually be his plan.
agreed. if he wants to paint miniatures (on or off camera) I doubt anyone else will offer better employment prospects then GW. Keep in mind that while rules designers are going to feel constrained by GW's corperate dictates, and mini designers might as well, the only real constrant on someone doing what Duncan was doing would be being told you had to use only GW's paint line and product line, and (especially if you're not paying for it) that's not that big a deal.
Hey folks, so I've seen some rumourmongering that I'm leaving Games Workshop. In the interest of honesty I will say now that yes, this is true, I am leaving at the end of the year, though I had hoped that it wouldn't have got out until Boxing Day at least...
...but don't panic! For now my plan is to have a nice Christmas holiday and after that, well, we shall see. Anything I get up to will certainly be put up here so that you know straight away.
I'll do my best to drop in to Twitter as often as I can over the next few days to answer any questions but obviously being Christmas everyone has their priorities right now, so enjoy yourself and play a game of Warhammer and charge something in it for me! :-)
Also I'd like to say, I'm truely overwhelmed and humbled by the support the community has given over the years. Making the hobby accessible has been my driving passion in all my time at GW, and I'm so happy that I have helped so many people get into painting their miniatures.
Sad news, as I quite enjoyed his tutorials and personally learned a lot from them, but I wish good luck with his future ventures.
Grot 6 wrote: The real question- The painting videos... Who's getting the slot next?
Duncan Rhodes wrote:Ooh by the way! Some might think that this is the end of GW hobby videos, but it is not! @ChrisPeach001 and @nick_bayton are still going to be making them so have no fear :-)
To be fair, GW has always balanced out the fact that they don't pay well with... well, enthusiasm. A lot of people are willing to take working for their favorite hobby company in lieu of a superior wage, and the discount can help a lot if GW models make up the majority of your leisure time.
But on the same note, they really just... don't pay that well. Some of their postings for their corporate office have had hilariously lowball salaries listed, and while its livable... its entirely possible to leverage your talents for a better wage to live on elsewhere. I'm pretty sure Duncan probably received a superior offer elsewhere, and his on camera presence and ability to present excellent tutorials certainly had a lot to do with it.
Grot 6 wrote: The real question- The painting videos... Who's getting the slot next?
Duncan Rhodes wrote:Ooh by the way! Some might think that this is the end of GW hobby videos, but it is not! @ChrisPeach001 and @nick_bayton are still going to be making them so have no fear :-)
Meh. I like peachy, but he doesn't have the presence or candor that Duncan does. He's rather wooden on camera
Oh no! I don't even like painting but he was like bob ross or Billy Mays. Without him who's going to guide all the new painters. It's like a beloved voice actor not reprising a cherished role.
Maybe I'm making this into a big deal but he seemed like a good guy. That's something gw probably doesn't often have at it's higher up staff.
RuneGrey wrote: To be fair, GW has always balanced out the fact that they don't pay well with... well, enthusiasm. A lot of people are willing to take working for their favorite hobby company in lieu of a superior wage, and the discount can help a lot if GW models make up the majority of your leisure time.
But on the same note, they really just... don't pay that well. Some of their postings for their corporate office have had hilariously lowball salaries listed, and while its livable... its entirely possible to leverage your talents for a better wage to live on elsewhere. I'm pretty sure Duncan probably received a superior offer elsewhere, and his on camera presence and ability to present excellent tutorials certainly had a lot to do with it.
Pretty much this. I'm not sure why people are responding with "no one pays as well as GW". GW is borderline notorious for being slim on the paychecks - the employees often considering discounts, free product, and being in the "hobby" as part of their salary (and thus willing to accept lesser pay).
Something tells me Duncan could seriously go Patreon and make double his current salary if he had his own content. GW makes tons of money, but they don't pay tons of money -not sure where people are getting that info.
I remember hearing on a one of the podcast episodes(yes I know it’s a bit sad) that he took a pay cut for the job he had at GW before he started doing the painting tutorial videos for them. I wouldn’t be surprised if they never increased the money since then.
RuneGrey wrote: To be fair, GW has always balanced out the fact that they don't pay well with... well, enthusiasm. A lot of people are willing to take working for their favorite hobby company in lieu of a superior wage, and the discount can help a lot if GW models make up the majority of your leisure time.
But on the same note, they really just... don't pay that well. Some of their postings for their corporate office have had hilariously lowball salaries listed, and while its livable... its entirely possible to leverage your talents for a better wage to live on elsewhere. I'm pretty sure Duncan probably received a superior offer elsewhere, and his on camera presence and ability to present excellent tutorials certainly had a lot to do with it.
Pretty much this. I'm not sure why people are responding with "no one pays as well as GW". GW is borderline notorious for being slim on the paychecks - the employees often considering discounts, free product, and being in the "hobby" as part of their salary (and thus willing to accept lesser pay).
Something tells me Duncan could seriously go Patreon and make double his current salary if he had his own content. GW makes tons of money, but they don't pay tons of money -not sure where people are getting that info.
I don't think anyone is saying GW pays well, just that outside of GW there's not a lot of market with other GAMING companies for his unique skill set. This doesn't mean he's not going elsewhere but that he's more likely if anything going independant then say.... doing painting videos for Reaper.
That certainly is a shame. I've never watched many of the tutorials, but his chemistry with Peachy was great, and some of Warhammer TV's best content features them unleashed with the likes of Nick and Louise. Without the passion, experience and a bit of madness displayed by these people, GW is just a cold corporate entity.
While I wish him the best, I believe the tutorials will be OK. Peachy I enjoy (mostly due to his banter on the Duncan and Peachy hangout) and Nick I don't mind either.
BrianDavion wrote: I don't think anyone is saying GW pays well, just that outside of GW there's not a lot of market with other GAMING companies for his unique skill set. This doesn't mean he's not going elsewhere but that he's more likely if anything going independant then say.... doing painting videos for Reaper.
They're going to need to realize that if they want a face that people give a squat about they're going to need to pay better or just be a continuous jumping board for people's careers once they've been out there a bit. If a presenter builds up a following they can turn it into a lively hood relatively easily, or simply leverage their popularity to get a better offer somewhere else that probably involves far less work.
The gaming aspect is far less important than actually managing to be likable on camera. That's a wildly marketable skill at the moment.
Snrub wrote: Bit of a bummer, as his videos were always good value. Always enjoyed him better then Peachy or Emma when in front of the camera. Emma never really seemed comfortable and Peachy just doesn't have the same on screen "zazz" that Duncan has.
If only they could get Darren Latham to do their tutorials.
Still, all the best to him, and hopefully he doesn't stray far from the hobby.
Nick Bayton’s really good, so that softens the blow. Still really sad to see him go.
I'm sad to hear he's going. I especially loved him on the streams. Hopefully he'll start doing videos or streams on his own channel (I've enjoyed some of Ceri's since she left). Regardless of what he does, I hope he has success.
I hardly got to know you, sir. May your future be bright, and warm enough to only require two thin coats.
I guess this explains the sort of "let's forget any promotional stuff and just have a fun, nostalgic chat about the hobby together" feel of the last Stormcast.
That’s a bummer, I always loved his tutorials and he has a natural charisma that made him much easier to watch than many other painters who post tutorials. This could be a good opportunity for him however. If he starts an independent painting channel and goes the patreon route GMG does he could do pretty well for himself, and he would certainly have more freedom to paint what he wants and how he wants. I would interested to follow something along those lines.
Chopstick wrote: Probably the only advantage of working at GW is the ability to salvage left over bits and early access /preview to all of the newer stuff.
I think the Warhammer TV crew don't even get the early glimpses and previews, other then by maybe a few weeks to prep their promotional stuff.
I imagine for most of them the main perks are about the 50% employee discount, being around a whole ton of very passionate and talented hobbyists, and getting to work on something you love.
...which is part of why it baffles me when people complaining about things like 40k imply that GW's ground level employees are lazy, don't care about the quality of their releases, and/or are just trying to squeeze money out of the fans any way they can. The CEO and executive management are obviously prioritizing profits and keeping the shareholders happy, as is true of any company, and do stuff like impose a pretty ruthless release schedule, but the actual background writers, game designers / rule writers, sculptors, illustrators, product developers, and graphic designers? Aside from old timers like Jervis Johnson, Jes Goodwin, Aly Morrison and John Blanche, they're like 90% people who grew up playing Games Workshop games and are totally passionate about it, and try to make the best products they can. It's just that it's a hard job, done by fallible humans, with lots of priorities to juggle, and the aforementioned brutal release schedule, so they make mistakes and can't be all things to all people.
I mean, just look at Duncan. You can tell that guy 100% cares about the community and wants everyone to enjoy the hobby as much as possible, and get as much out of it as possible. I think he's the norm, not the exception.
...
Though none of this is to say they shouldn't be paid better. Getting to do what you love is used far far far too often as an excuse to treat employees like crap in creative industries… videogame development, comics, animation… there's countless horror stories about bosses getting away with murder because the employees are passionate about the project and want to keep working on it. I'm sure big tabletop game companies have similar stories.
There is definitely a point (at least for middle class people) where making less money to work at a job you enjoy more is extremely worth it. The issue is that if you aren’t making enough to live a somewhat comfortable existence and not struggle, liking what you do at work is pretty irrelevant.
It's amusing that to myself at least, this is a bigger announcement than anything GW have mentioned themselves (in any marketing or promotion kinda way) for the past twelve months.
I wonder where Duncan will end up? I wouldn't be surprised if it was outside of the miniatures/tabletop industry to be honest, he's got the presentation skills, charisma and talent for it. (Community manager at a videogame studio like Creative Assembly would be an easy transition for him, for example)
I remember on some interview Tuomas Pirinen saying that GW (and the wargaming industry in general) didn't pay that well, and he left when the bills (kids, mortgage,...) were ramping up (so ended up in videogames, which payed better).
No clue on the situation of Duncan, but I'm sure he can make it well either individually (patreon, videos, merch...) or aiming a little higher in some corporate entertainment PR position (he's got the skills).
I often find myself thinking Duncan and Wade Pryce both have the talent and charm to be, like, professional television presenters. Like even for BBC or something.
(And I don't mean that as a knock against Peachy or Nick. They're great, they just have a camera presence and attitude that feels more specialized for this kind of community)
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Sabotage! wrote: There is definitely a point (at least for middle class people) where making less money to work at a job you enjoy more is extremely worth it. The issue is that if you aren’t making enough to live a somewhat comfortable existence and not struggle, liking what you do at work is pretty irrelevant.
And the worst tragedy is that, if you aren't making a fair wage, you can even end up resenting that thing you originally loved. :(
We'll just have to wait and see what he's going to do next, he has promised to keep us in the loop with regards to that. Who knows, we may see an official announcement from GW sooner or later. I know they've not done this in the past with previous staffers who were visible a lot, but they may do it for Duncan.
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:They're going to need to realize that if they want a face that people give a squat about they're going to need to pay better or just be a continuous jumping board for people's careers once they've been out there a bit.
nataliereed1984 wrote:...which is part of why it baffles me when people complaining about things like 40k imply that GW's ground level employees are lazy, don't care about the quality of their releases, and/or are just trying to squeeze money out of the fans any way they can. The CEO and executive management are obviously prioritizing profits and keeping the shareholders happy, as is true of any company, and do stuff like impose a pretty ruthless release schedule, but the actual background writers, game designers / rule writers, sculptors, illustrators, product developers, and graphic designers? Aside from old timers like Jervis Johnson, Jes Goodwin, Aly Morrison and John Blanche, they're like 90% people who grew up playing Games Workshop games and are totally passionate about it, and try to make the best products they can. It's just that it's a hard job, done by fallible humans, with lots of priorities to juggle, and the aforementioned brutal release schedule, so they make mistakes and can't be all things to all people.
'Lazy devs' is one of those soundbites that bothers the hell out of me. I've seen no indication that GW's staffers are anything but enthusiastic and invested in their work.
That said, if it really is the case (this is the first I'm hearing of it) that GW essentially hires fans who are willing to tolerate low pay for the opportunity to work at GW, then no wonder their products have the problems they do. That's just not how you attract the best talent, in any industry.
Taking videogames as an example, I find gamers are often surprised to learn that the developers who work on franchises really tend not to be anywhere near as invested in the IP as the fans are- they're hired for pay, working conditions, and opportunity for advancement first and foremost, and it's pretty common to work on games that they would never want to play in their spare time. Conversely, I've seen a lot of development projects led by fans crash and burn, because they had enthusiasm but not the requisite skills, nor the capital to bring in industry veterans to address that deficiency. Having an appreciation for the IP is a nice-to-have for project leads, but when it comes to raw skill you have to compensate well to get (and more importantly retain) good people.
So I guess Duncan leaving isn't all that surprising. A shame to see him go, but I'll be following to see what he does next.
"We hire for attitude, not for skills" is one of the famous Kirbyisms from his era.
Even if that attitude was nuked from orbit by Rountree the day he took over, there's going to still be a lot of staff members lingering that were recruited under it.
Dryaktylus wrote: Well, sometimes being a miniature painter for a wargames company isn't the ultimate goal in your life, even if you like it.
its more than money, and by extension bills and essential items, become more important than the dream job, so you jump ship to something offering better compensation to save your livelihood.
BrianDavion wrote: I don't think anyone is saying GW pays well, just that outside of GW there's not a lot of market with other GAMING companies for his unique skill set. This doesn't mean he's not going elsewhere but that he's more likely if anything going independant then say.... doing painting videos for Reaper.
They're going to need to realize that if they want a face that people give a squat about they're going to need to pay better or just be a continuous jumping board for people's careers once they've been out there a bit. If a presenter builds up a following they can turn it into a lively hood relatively easily, or simply leverage their popularity to get a better offer somewhere else that probably involves far less work.
The gaming aspect is far less important than actually managing to be likable on camera. That's a wildly marketable skill at the moment.
IMHOGW might be better off not having a singular in house painter and instead simply sponsering existing painters. take people who have a popular following and do GW stuff mostly anyway and provide them free access to GW paints and products so long as they agree to only use their stuff.
Duncan can easily find another job with another minis company. Loads of them would probably love to leverage the good will and fame he has earned while working with GW to help push their own products and IPs.
Beyond that, I am sure he can start up an independent paint studio and make bank.
Beyond even that, he is actually pretty good in front of the camera. I would not be surprised if his next job has little to do with painting and far more with presenting. I could easily see him becoming an off-brand Becca Scott, or something similar.
I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
JWBS wrote: I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
JWBS wrote: I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
Considering the size of our hobby I think that's a apt description of him. I've watched a lot of painting videos and he's got the best on screen presence of anyone. His non-painting stuff is entertaining too--for being GW advertisements.
JWBS wrote: I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
Have you watched the livestreams? His personality shines through much more in them than the painting videos. Also, I don't think much of Fassbender, so agree that Duncan's funnier and more handsome, and seems more poersonable too. No idea what Fassbender's mini painting skills are like though so can't comment there
JWBS wrote: I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
Considering the size of our hobby I think that's a apt description of him. I've watched a lot of painting videos and he's got the best on screen presence of anyone. His non-painting stuff is entertaining too--for being GW advertisements.
I think it's that a lot of us started playing the hobby, or spent the bulk of it, during the looooooong 20 years between roughly 1995 and 2015 when Games Workshop tended to seem really corporate and impersonal, with their public facing side being extremely blatantly focused on promoting sales, making you think you "need" a certain product, and often outright lying to you to maximize the chance you'll shell out your money (like the 'Eavy Metal painting tutorials where literally everything after basecoating would just be labelled "Step Five - FINISHING TOUCHES!" as though it's that easy, and nobody needed to be told about washes, dry brushing, shading and highlighting; or starter boxes that claimed "TWO FULL, COMPLETE WARHAMMER ARMIES!"). Duncan was pretty much the first step in the better direction GW has taken recent years, where honesty, accessibility, humanization, connecting with the community, giving us things to help us that aren't JUST about selling us their products, and bringing a sense of fun and humour back into things, are as important as reminding you about the latest thing they have for sale. And, given the huge boost in sales, it's been working as well for GW as for us.
In short, for a lot of people, Duncan was the first time in a long while that GW had a face that actually looked like a friendly, welcoming, decent person who cared about the hobby and your enjoyment of it, and was speaking to you plainly rather than constantly running a non-stop obnoxious sales pitch, and it was a lovely thing.
Duncan had me won over from the moment they showed him in a lab coat,bashing one of the, then new, carry cases with a slayer sword. Top Warhammering right there.
Duncan is basically that great GW store staffer just from the Head Office.
He's fun, passionate, talented in his field (painting) and he doesn't have to force his passion (if he is then he's a very skilled actor as well). And that all really shines through. He's also really confident in front of the camera which isn't an easy skill. He also gets the whole fun side of things without seeming like he's reading off a script or reading "company policy talk".
Of the community team they've currently got he's probably their best performer. So seeing him go is a great shame in terms of the content we get from GW direct.
I think he also made painting seem a lot easier and he's clear and calm in his painting videos. I think he's convinced many to pick you pa brush again and start painting and I think that reinforces his impact on many people because he's not just a good presenter; he's the presenter who got them painting.
Despite being in the hobby for about 20 years, I didn't realise just how much I had to learn when it came to painting until I began following his tutorial videos.
The first I attempted was Celestine. Usually I tried to 'make do' with colours. This time, I got everything on the list and began watching his video. By the time I was finished, I had the best model (up to that point) that I had ever painted. And it looked exactly the same as his one.
Never before had a tutorial left me with such a feeling of success. I will always be thankful to Duncan for helping elevate my hobby.
He will be a loss to GW, and a bonus to whoever gets him (if he stays in the field).
I wonder who else is going to make me feel inadequate in my painting skills being pedestrian no matter how hard I try, despite always doing two thin coats... :(
anoither thing to keep in mind re Duncan. For some of us, including myself, his painting videos where what taught us how to paint beyond a simple level of tossing a thick coat of paint on something and MAYBE if we where told by our local store owner about it, washing with Nulin oil.
To a lot of us Duncan was basicly a favorite teacher.
Seriously, though, I hope he finds a great, well paid job where his skills and personality can shine. Loved his painting tutorials as well as his apparitions in other GW videos.
He's not going away, he's going to another gaming company. He's good at conveying the story about how to enjoy a game, strong feeling we will see him again doing the same schtick.
But how will people feel when he's mopping colors on something besides Space Marines?
JWBS wrote: I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
Do sweets not come out of your computer screen when you watch Duncan Rhodes videos? Is it just me getting these wonkabars?
I will miss him as the face of GW. Wish hm the best and hope he’s not going to a third rate company or Privateer Press. Also hope he’s not going to try and sell CDs as those are useless in the digital age.
Azreal13 wrote: "We hire for attitude, not for skills" is one of the famous Kirbyisms from his era.
Even if that attitude was nuked from orbit by Rountree the day he took over, there's going to still be a lot of staff members lingering that were recruited under it.
Well, that can be a very effective strategy if the company is 1. Willing to invest in training, 2. willing to raise salaries to match the now upscaled employee's skillset. If not you run the likely risk of becoming a training ground for other companies' nice, charming, highly skilled and great co-workers
I'm sad to see him go. He was the face of GW for me in recent times and for my return to the hobby.
Theophony wrote: They should offer to make a Sir Duncan of Rhodes Knight pilot and sell it as a special with all profits going to Duncan’s as a way to keep him.
While the mini won't happen, someone else already did fanart of a sir Duncan, approved by the legend himself:
JWBS wrote: I feel I must be missing something with Duncan. I mean yes, he seems like an okay guy, but reading this thread makes it seem like he's a funnier, handsomer, more talented version of Michael Fassbender that lends you money and gives you sweets and can also paint.
I wouldn’t describe Duncan as charismatic. He seems like a nice kid. Found his niche, I think, with these tutorial videos. He seemed comfortable doing what he was doing, and he was definitely skilled, otherwise, just another guy in the hobby. I wish him well.
In his Voxcast he seems like the last person who’d want to be in any way ‘famous’ so I wonder if he’s hoping to return to some kind of anonymity within hobby circles.
Dread Master wrote: I wouldn’t describe Duncan as charismatic. He seems like a nice kid. Found his niche, I think, with these tutorial videos. He seemed comfortable doing what he was doing, and he was definitely skilled, otherwise, just another guy in the hobby. I wish him well.
What if IP / Copyright law means they have to take down Duncan's videos?!?? O___O
Doubt it. Most employment contracts have a clause that stipulates that the employer owns the IP and copyright for all materials produced by the employee with company resources.
I had a thought at work, couldn’t read the notice from Duncan, could he be leaving GW (proper) and going to do the painting for FW and specialist studio? That would be fantastic.
Theophony wrote: I had a thought at work, couldn’t read the notice from Duncan, could he be leaving GW (proper) and going to do the painting for FW and specialist studio? That would be fantastic.
Not to sound snarky but does FW even produce anything anymore? Or at least enough to justify a painter?
The occasional titan arm and that weird SM tank don't really seem like something you need a guy working full time to paint.
Theophony wrote: I had a thought at work, couldn’t read the notice from Duncan, could he be leaving GW (proper) and going to do the painting for FW and specialist studio? That would be fantastic.
Not to sound snarky but does FW even produce anything anymore? Or at least enough to justify a painter?
The occasional titan arm and that weird SM tank don't really seem like something you need a guy working full time to paint.
Peachy is great with terrain and Nick is a solid runner up for Duncan. I watched a few since posting in the thread the other day. I'll stay subscribed but its no longer the first thing I want to check when I pull up youtube.
Heya folks, Happy New Year! As it is now the 1st you will notice that my handle has changed to @Two_Thin_Coats for I am no longer working at GW... Some people have asked me what this means for this account, well I shall now tell you!
I will continue to tweet about wargaming and painting, but will be opening up those subjects more widely to encompass not only GW but also historicals and other games. It's going to become my hobby blog I think!
To answer another question, I am definitely going to be staying in the industry and will tell you here what I'm getting up to once I'm ready to do so. It won't be long!
Finally, I'd like to say again how amazed and humbled I am at the reaction from the community. I have heard so many stories of people getting into the hobby due to what we made and I'm so happy to have contributed in this way.
He could even go it alone. He's got GW fame and the whole "two thin coats" and a pretty big following. Going on his own he could paint models from any company (including GW) whilst earning off a Patreon.
Whilst it might not be a long term thing it could certainly make someone with the right marketing and start up do pretty nicely; and he's certainly got the ball rolling in terms of marketing. One post on his twitter and he could have hundreds f £1 a month followers
oni wrote: Interesting. Maybe he was hired by another company after all.
OMG... What if he was hired by Army Painter.
He said two thin coats not thirty.
Army painter actually makes some sense mind you. the problem with most of the names bandied about is that they don't really have much of a reason to do high end painting videos. GW is in a position that is unique, in that it teaches you how to paint GW models with GW paint, offical painting videos for other paint lines might be VERY good for those companies though as I know I tend toi buy a lotta GW paints because I know exactly how they'll look and how to get the effect I want
oni wrote: Interesting. Maybe he was hired by another company after all.
OMG... What if he was hired by Army Painter.
He said two thin coats not thirty.
Army painter actually makes some sense mind you. the problem with most of the names bandied about is that they don't really have much of a reason to do high end painting videos. GW is in a position that is unique, in that it teaches you how to paint GW models with GW paint, offical painting videos for other paint lines might be VERY good for those companies though as I know I tend toi buy a lotta GW paints because I know exactly how they'll look and how to get the effect I want
I agree- I've branched out into valleho etallics because they really are the best. (Look nowhere else for Bronze!) but all my other paints are GW for that very reason.
oni wrote: Interesting. Maybe he was hired by another company after all.
OMG... What if he was hired by Army Painter.
He said two thin coats not thirty.
Army painter actually makes some sense mind you. the problem with most of the names bandied about is that they don't really have much of a reason to do high end painting videos. GW is in a position that is unique, in that it teaches you how to paint GW models with GW paint, offical painting videos for other paint lines might be VERY good for those companies though as I know I tend toi buy a lotta GW paints because I know exactly how they'll look and how to get the effect I want
I agree- I've branched out into valleho etallics because they really are the best. (Look nowhere else for Bronze!) but all my other paints are GW for that very reason.
right, part of that is because most non-GW painting videos.. in a word.. SUCK. they're almost always ones with a poor camera angle. the guy mumbles etc. they use a mix of paints, half the time they air brushes
While it could be true that it's Warlord Games or somesuch, I wouldn't necessarily read too much into the mention of "historicals" as such. Could he not simply have an interest in those personally? After all, he's well known for liking Knights, maybe he also likes, well, knights. Indeed, he says he'll be showing "not only GW, but also..". Purely WG-related work would not involve GW. It's obviously more his personal projects, or potentially work for a non-miniature company.
on the "he likes knights" idea. I'm gonna toss out an insane idea... he's working for catalyst at camo specs online. they apparently do painting videos for battletech
BrianDavion wrote: on the "he likes knights" idea. I'm gonna toss out an insane idea... he's working for catalyst at camo specs online. they apparently do painting videos for battletech
That would be insane. Catalyst is in yet another scandal about ripping off their freelancers.
BrianDavion wrote: on the "he likes knights" idea. I'm gonna toss out an insane idea... he's working for catalyst at camo specs online. they apparently do painting videos for battletech
That would be insane. Catalyst is in yet another scandal about ripping off their freelancers.
beast_gts wrote: And his first non-GW paint job (shown on [url=https://twitter.com/Two_Thin_Coats/status/1212864449360678913]Twitter[url]) is - "Lannister troops for A Song of Ice and Fire"
Spoiler:
Oh man, that would be fantastic if he teamed up with CMON to do painting videos for A Song of Ice and Fire!
It is an incredible game with really nice miniatures that I've found very enjoyable to paint.
I'd love to see his tutorials. James Wappellious has done a bunch of tutorials for ASOIAF stuff, but half the time he is using oil paints and the other half the time he is just straight up using magic or something.
beast_gts wrote: And his first non-GW paint job (shown on [url=https://twitter.com/Two_Thin_Coats/status/1212864449360678913]Twitter[url]) is - "Lannister troops for A Song of Ice and Fire"
Spoiler:
Oh man, that would be fantastic if he teamed up with CMON to do painting videos for A Song of Ice and Fire!
It is an incredible game with really nice miniatures that I've found very enjoyable to paint.
I'd love to see his tutorials. James Wappellious has done a bunch of tutorials for ASOIAF stuff, but half the time he is using oil paints and the other half the time he is just straight up using magic or something.
I hope not, I know painters who did work for CMON. CMON like to "get the most" out of their painters.
I will always remember him as the 2 Thin coats Meme guy. But that aside his painting tutorials have been the easiest 1 to fully watch through and not find my mind wandering off to a TV or phone app
He's been uploading more stuff since, showing off the things he probably couldn't share in the past due to contractual obligations. It will be fun to see what else he's going to share, as he's already mentioned having done FFG's Star Wars minis as well.
I don't think the fact he's been posting more historicals is a sign of any ties of Warlord, every time I've spoken to the guy he's seemed to be pretty big into historicals
winnertakesall wrote: I don't think the fact he's been posting more historicals is a sign of any ties of Warlord, every time I've spoken to the guy he's seemed to be pretty big into historicals
He noticed the shields I used in a conversion were from warlord hoplites
Since he has a large following, I really think the smartest thing for him to do is to find a way to go into business for himself. A subscription style site, Patreon-esque, etc. He's one of the few guys in the industry whose name is already out there. People throw ridiculous sums of money at stupid kids playing video games on Twitch...so he should be able to swing at least a solid income just via patreon/fans/support, etc.
Maybe even team up with a few buddies and run a gaming site/painting tutorial page, etc.
auticus wrote: He could easily pull 100k or more a year doing a patreon where he sits in his house and paints once a week on camera for people.
He could certainly do that for a good few years - his only upfront cost would be getting some good cameras and audio recording equipment - basically similar to what he's been working with at GW (which honestly I suspect is some half good constant lights; a good microphone and then pretty much any good solid video camera - even a DSLR with video or such).
The risk with that kind of business is you can kill it if you ever dare mention polities or do something stupid; but if all he does is paint and show people how to paint different miniatures he can certainly keep turning over really well. GW has actually done almost all the marketing for him - heck how many other staff can leave GW and generate pages of chatter on websites?! (granted there's a lot of really skilled designers who work for GW who likely just go unmentioned - so we never really know them like we do Duncan who has been front and centre in the social media and interaction for a few years - heck no one knew of him before he started in that role and yet he's been at GW for quite a few years).
Obispudkenobi wrote: Or maybe just maybe, he has decided to get a proper real world job with a higher wage and a steady income and decent benefits.
Quite aside from odious assumptions about what a "real world job" is, his timing is utterly terrible if his goal is to gain employment in a traditional role/sector in the U.K..
For reasons I'm not allowed to reference, but which should be obvious.
Obispudkenobi wrote: Or maybe just maybe, he has decided to get a proper real world job with a higher wage and a steady income and decent benefits.
If he can paint little toys to pay his mortgage - by all means he should!
I'm not sure what his education or his resume looks like but getting into some financial/marketing/cubicle job to pull an entry level salary would be a terrible move with the current momentum and following he has. He's also not in the US so I assume he's not paying too much for his medical coverage and benefits.
As I type this from my generic cubicle finance gig that pays my mortgage
Medical benefits are not unimportant in the U.K. though. Again, I can't go into why because of the heavy-handed no politics rule, but there are reasons why it's better to have BUPA than to have to rely on the NHS.
the biggest cost would be, beyond the inital cost of Cameras etc, the cost of hobby supplies, including miniatures, but Duncan's got a pretty high profile to the point where.. that might not be an issue because he'd likely be able to get sponserships. heck if Duncan went into busniess for himself that way, if I was running a smaller company that did mini's I'd happily offer him my mini's for his video simply because it'd be good advertising. I bet a lot of 40k players haven't heard of some of the other games out there.
Nick and Peachy will still be making the video tutorials.
Peachys wooden and I haven't seen anything from Nick.
Kinda fascinating seeing stuff like this - I mean it's somewhat true, Duncan was somehow more engaging than the others. But the video and presentation quality are the same for all of them, as are the painting techniques and style (as it's all GW house-style and techniques). As will most of the scripts, to be fair - there's not much room for jokes or anything that isn't directly paint-related in them.
If you're following the tutorial, your mini is going to look exactly the same regardless of if Duncan or Peachy made the video. There's no loss to the core product of the tutorial itself there (no-one is arguing that Nick can't paint well, for example).
And yet, people will still be put off. And I agree the videos by the others never *felt* as good. It really shouldn't matter. But it does. Sort of.
(I wonder how many watch the videos just for entertainment / relaxation, with no intention of ever painting the minis in question?)
Actually there was definitely room for differences, as Peachy brought his style of white primer + washes method to the screen.
Which that said, I think Duncan was more charismatic in front of the camera, even though I probably learned more techniques I currently use from Peachy.
Looks like he's got something in mind, looking forward to finding out what it is
Duncan Rhodes @Two_Thin_Coats
To answer another question, I am definitely going to be staying in the industry and will tell you here what I'm getting up to once I'm ready to do so. It won't be long!
EnTyme wrote: I hope it works out for him. YouTube is a tough racket.
He's making a bloody awful mistake if he's starting youtube now. He needs to do Twitch to get his feet set. And even then i hope he realises he'll need to be doing a good 6 day week for multiple hours to get anywhere near the subs he would need to actually get a living going.
EnTyme wrote: I hope it works out for him. YouTube is a tough racket.
He's making a bloody awful mistake if he's starting youtube now. He needs to do Twitch to get his feet set. And even then i hope he realises he'll need to be doing a good 6 day week for multiple hours to get anywhere near the subs he would need to actually get a living going.
I don't really do Twitch much, but I'll do what I can to support him if that's the route he goes.
EnTyme wrote: I hope it works out for him. YouTube is a tough racket.
He's making a bloody awful mistake if he's starting youtube now. He needs to do Twitch to get his feet set. And even then i hope he realises he'll need to be doing a good 6 day week for multiple hours to get anywhere near the subs he would need to actually get a living going.
Agreed, hasn't monetisation on YouTube fallen off a cliff in the past year or so? And is it subs or views that bring in the true money? I once saw a video where a million viewed video gained the creator about $400.
EnTyme wrote: I hope it works out for him. YouTube is a tough racket.
He's making a bloody awful mistake if he's starting youtube now. He needs to do Twitch to get his feet set. And even then i hope he realises he'll need to be doing a good 6 day week for multiple hours to get anywhere near the subs he would need to actually get a living going.
Agreed, hasn't monetisation on YouTube fallen off a cliff in the past year or so? And is it subs or views that bring in the true money? I once saw a video where a million viewed video gained the creator about $400.
There's a reason why so many creators are abandoing it for streaming. And streaming can be very tempermental. Popular streamers who disappear for just a few days for a break can lose thousands of subs at a time. It is a very risky thing to bet your career on. Especially something as niche as paiting. He's got guts to give up a regular salary and be basically the face of the biggest mini company currently going to go it alone.
I think a big part of it is going to depend on if he can get sponsership. if he's got to buy his own models it's going to eat into his earnings a bit (less so mind you as he'd use models he wanted to paint for his hobby time anyway) but if say.. some mini companies offered to give him models to paint, it might help.
Duncan has a huge head start and I wouldn't be surprised to see him making more from this than GW. No perks, but no restrictions either.
This. Youtube advertising income might be a risky venture and streaming services might well be very hit and miss in terms of viewership (likely because you've a lot using their 1 subscribe a month for free from Amazon); but Patreon seems to be going strong at present. Even if he does twitch he can easily setup a patreon as well with unique/early videos and material.
As others note he's also a big enough name that medium to smaller model companies would likely love to have him paint their models for the exposure. It might even do a lot to break some of the fantasy to historical barriers and expose more sci-fi fans to historical games.
I think he's also moving fairly fast and he's popular enough that he'll certainly get a lot of subscribers/hits/views/whatevers in the early days - as long as his content is solid in those days it will basically give him a huge jump-start over many others who have to start with family and friends viewers only. He'll start with a big fanbase.
He missed his window. He should have had this is up and ready to go immediately after his work with GW ended. 10% of his prior fanbase has likely already forgotten who he is/moved on.
Gallahad wrote: He missed his window. He should have had this is up and ready to go immediately after his work with GW ended. 10% of his prior fanbase has likely already forgotten who he is/moved on.
it's been less then a month since he offically resigned (and IIRC it was noted the inital plan was for it to be announced in the new year) if your attention span is that low I doubt you're a mini painter
Gallahad wrote: He missed his window. He should have had this is up and ready to go immediately after his work with GW ended. 10% of his prior fanbase has likely already forgotten who he is/moved on.
You really think 10% of people who were fans of Duncan have forgetten him? I think most people who preffered his videos are looking forward to hi doing something else, the bigger problem is getting the word out to everyone. But I would suppose threads like this help that effort a ton already.
Love instagram, just got into it and it has big potential for galleries and quick vids... As for miniature painting YouTube videos do those gather enough views to justify living out of it? I mean its such a niche thing that does not seem a good venture to pursue.
I wish him success. I've really enjoyed his tutorials. It might be interesting to see what he can do with products beyond the GW realm (paints, finishing products, etc.).
There are youtubers that go full-time while averaging 30k-50k views per video. Most of their income isn't from views, but from affiliate links, patreon or merchandise. Youtube money isn't the main source of income for 98% (I'm making this up) of youtubers. Other sources may be added on top (instagram, sponsors, etc...).
I can easily see Mr. Rhodes doing so, and wish him the best.
VBS wrote: There are youtubers that go full-time while averaging 30k-50k views per video. Most of their income isn't from views, but from affiliate links, patreon or merchandise. Youtube money isn't the main source of income for 98% (I'm making this up) of youtubers. Other sources may be added on top (instagram, sponsors, etc...).
I can easily see Mr. Rhodes doing so, and wish him the best.
VBS wrote: There are youtubers that go full-time while averaging 30k-50k views per video. Most of their income isn't from views, but from affiliate links, patreon or merchandise. Youtube money isn't the main source of income for 98% (I'm making this up) of youtubers. Other sources may be added on top (instagram, sponsors, etc...).
I can easily see Mr. Rhodes doing so, and wish him the best.
"Two Thin Coats!" brand paint brushes?
“Two thin coats!” Clothing line. You seriously get two thin coats
He could totally exploit the whole two thin coats meme. Make his own "brand" by buying cheap stuff off China and strapping a sticker with his face on it for thrice the price. Instant hit.
That's what a lot of people do, I even think hobby companies like Green Stuff World did that before starting to develop their own products.
He could totally exploit the whole two thin coats meme. Make his own "brand" by buying cheap stuff off China and strapping a sticker with his face on it for thrice the price. Instant hit.
That's what a lot of people do, I even think hobby companies like Green Stuff World did that before starting to develop their own products.
He's worked for GW... He knows he can charge 50 times the price.. common
RiTides wrote: Honestly, I think he's going to do fine. It would have been kind of poor form to resign and then launch his own business the next day, too...
Does GW put non-compete clauses in the contracts of those who work at GWHQ? If they do, he may have to wait it out before announcing what he will be doing.
Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
A non-compete clause could be a standard part of all contracts for GWHQ employees keeping them from working in the miniature gaming industry for a set amount of time after they leave GW, not something specific for painting videos but which may still be covered by a general non-compete clause (if it exists).
That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Overread wrote: Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
I do fear he's made a blunder here. WHC throws so many views to media. He has to build this ground up without benefits or guaranteed income.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
keep in mind a Non-Compeition clause in this case wouldn't be specific to duncan, it'd be something done across GW and mostly intended to prevent a situation of GW paying good money to train someone to say... sculpt models, only to have them at the end of their training jump ship to the compeition
Overread wrote: Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
I do fear he's made a blunder here. WHC throws so many views to media. He has to build this ground up without benefits or guaranteed income.
I hope he succeeds though.
I think he's off to a good start - how many ex-gw employees generate 1 post let alone 7 pages worth of chat alone? He's pretty much become one of THE faces of modern GW. If anything GW letting him go is the worse for it at present. GW has a few other staff who do well in front of the camera, but Duncan is the one most people "know". Plus he never gave that whole "I'm being paid for this" atmosphere - he was (once he got into it) a very natural presenter to the camera.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
They're far more common than they're enforced though. I was under one and went to a direct competitor, a move I only undertook because my predecessor had done a similar thing and my employer did try to pursue them for it and failed.
Basically they're only valid in a contract if it can be demonstrated that the specific individual could materially, demonstrably negatively impact the company's bottom line by moving to a competitor.
It would be very hard to argue that what Duncan does would do that, and in fact if he continues to use Citadel products in any capacity his contribution to GW's sales will remain largely the same.
To be fair that was basically what GW wanted from him and the whole GW painting system - basic info that was repeated to reinforce the teaching point.
I think that now he's on his own we might see different methods. He might well be pushing toward more advanced painting techniques and building on what he did before. Now that's he's not going to be exclusively bound to teaching beginners for marketing material.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
keep in mind a Non-Compeition clause in this case wouldn't be specific to duncan, it'd be something done across GW and mostly intended to prevent a situation of GW paying good money to train someone to say... sculpt models, only to have them at the end of their training jump ship to the compeition
GW seems a lot more mindful of how litigation affects their image, and regardless of where a person lives, a non-compete is only as good as it's enforcement, which means litigation.
By all accounts this is an amicable departure, which means Duncan has likely reached an agreement on what he'll do, and for how long, with the powers that be.
While possible, I don't think a non-compete clause would be an issue.
Darren Latham has a fairly successful YouTube painting channel on the side while (still) being a GW miniatures designer in his day job.
If anything, I'd wonder why Duncan didn't build his own channel for a year or two while being employed, before going full-time (though Darren Latham simply might have better connections in the company?)
On the other hand, the quality of people like Latham is something Duncan will have to compete with to make a mark.
You will also note that all of Darren's videos are of Citadel miniatures and he uses strictly Citadel supplies. That is most likely a restriction from Games Workshop for employees who wish to do YouTube tutorials like he is doing.
Ghaz wrote: You will also note that all of Darren's videos are of Citadel miniatures and he uses strictly Citadel supplies. That is most likely a restriction from Games Workshop for employees who wish to do YouTube tutorials like he is doing.
that or he's just enjoying his 50% off employees discount. toss that level of discount in and suddenly the citidel supplies are the cheaper alternative
Ghaz wrote: You will also note that all of Darren's videos are of Citadel miniatures and he uses strictly Citadel supplies. That is most likely a restriction from Games Workshop for employees who wish to do YouTube tutorials like he is doing.
Given he freely recommends using Windsor and Newton Series 7 Size 1 brushes whenever he’s asked what he paints with, he isn’t using 100% GW.
Sunny Side Up wrote: While possible, I don't think a non-compete clause would be an issue.
Darren Latham has a fairly successful YouTube painting channel on the side while (still) being a GW miniatures designer in his day job.
If anything, I'd wonder why Duncan didn't build his own channel for a year or two while being employed, before going full-time (though Darren Latham simply might have better connections in the company?)
On the other hand, the quality of people like Latham is something Duncan will have to compete with to make a mark.
Yeah the biggest thing about Duncan and the way he was shown to paint in the videos was very basic. and from what i can see froom alot of people appreciate that because its a simple and effective way too paint.
However, if GW still produces those, and on a regular basis, way more regular than a Youtuber can do, what is the point f watching duncan do it?
Honestly, Duncan mighr be a great painter, but it wasnt his painting that got him popular, it was himself.
Overread wrote: Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
I do fear he's made a blunder here. WHC throws so many views to media. He has to build this ground up without benefits or guaranteed income.
I hope he succeeds though.
That depends on how much they paid him. I have a sneaking suspicion it wasn't all that much.
Ghaz wrote:A non-compete clause could be a standard part of all contracts for GWHQ employees keeping them from working in the miniature gaming industry for a set amount of time after they leave GW, not something specific for painting videos but which may still be covered by a general non-compete clause (if it exists).
How would that work without interfering with the four freedoms (the UK is still part of the EU… for now)? Simply put: If they want a non-compete clause to be effective for a certain duration then they's need to pay him for that time (like a pseudo-employee). They can't restrict him like that once he's not a GW employee anymore. Because if they are not paying him then they have zero power to restrict his future employment situation in any way. If they want his time then they'd need to pay for it.
Besides: Haven't some game designers recently (± since AOS was released or so?) moved to and from GW without long pauses between the companies implying that a non-compete cause is not standard?
Only real non-competing clause that comes to mind is the one Rick Priestley had when he left GW years ago, forbidding him from creating a new sci-fi game for a couple of years. The moment it was over he did Gates of Antares.
Precisely, because, as I said, that is a circumstance where a specific individual would be in a position to materially negatively impact the earnings of their previous employer.
It would be relatively simple to argue that the author of one of your key products making another similar product independently or for a competitor would impact your own sales.
It is much less easy to argue that someone making painting videos but not responsible for making your paint or selling their own would have anything like the same impact.
BrookM wrote: Only real non-competing clause that comes to mind is the one Rick Priestley had when he left GW years ago, forbidding him from creating a new sci-fi game for a couple of years. The moment it was over he did Gates of Antares.
Which oddly is just a bolt action reskin anyway, but I digress.
Non-competes and NDAs are abused as hell over here, but really, if they're important, they'll be very specific, and usually only apply to people that have very key inside information.
Azreal13 wrote: You're not suggesting GW lean rather hard on their creative employees' enthusiasm to cheap out on pay and benefits are you?
My pearls are clutched.
Glass Door reviews comment a lot about pay and benefits being good, but the upper management being capricious and upward mobility is poor. They're almost all retail employees though and mostly not in the UK. Reviews post Kirby seem more positive than those before.
And here's a great comment from a Nottigham employee highlighting why the books may be the way they are:
Pros
Oh, Games Workshop.
Staff are often quite quirky and friendly. There is a real sense of family at GW, with many staff staying for years.
The company is generous in terms of benefits and the canteen is superb, having just undergone a refurbishment.
Cons
Management often have no experience or knowledge of their profession, being hired for fit over skill. Sometimes this leads to a gross misunderstanding of what can be achieved. Siloed structure. Even within departments, job roles can be quite misunderstood by colleagues so available tools and resource can be underutilised by different teams. This is mostly offset by the fact you can't really stay annoyed at people because they're generally lovely if a bit daft.
Azreal13 wrote: You're not suggesting GW lean rather hard on their creative employees' enthusiasm to cheap out on pay and benefits are you?
My pearls are clutched.
Glass Door reviews comment a lot about pay and benefits being good, but the upper management being capricious and upward mobility is poor. They're almost all retail employees though and mostly not in the UK. Reviews post Kirby seem more positive than those before.
And here's a great comment from a Nottigham employee highlighting why the books may be the way they are:
If you look at the hiring process it says a lot. They don't prioritise expertise or qualifications (can't speak for technical jobs as I've never looked at them)
BrookM wrote: Only real non-competing clause that comes to mind is the one Rick Priestley had when he left GW years ago, forbidding him from creating a new sci-fi game for a couple of years. The moment it was over he did Gates of Antares.
Which oddly is just a bolt action reskin anyway, but I digress.
Non-competes and NDAs are abused as hell over here, but really, if they're important, they'll be very specific, and usually only apply to people that have very key inside information.
Well, it ended up being a bolt action re-skin because the entire Kickstarter and a global web-based interactive campaign-thingy, etc.. all failed.
Bolting all the art-work they had already done and/or commissioned to the bolt action rules and releasing it anyhow was just the damage control.
Well, Darren Latham is just uploading his final video before his channel stops producing content. I don't think Duncan is a proper replacement tbh but I'll check out his channel nonetheless.
Duncan does well on Instagram too. 5,000 likes per post on average and 42k followers isn't a bad base to start out with. That, combined with a larger base on youtube (even mediocre painters can have popular channels, and Duncan isn't one of them) should start him off on the right foot.
GaroRobe wrote: even mediocre painters can have popular channels, and Duncan isn't one of them
No, I wouldn’t describe him as mediocre. I’d describe him as competent.
I’m sure his channel will be very popular because he’s a likeable guy but I’ll be interested to see if his tutorials ever go beyond the basics of mini painting that the official Warhammer channel’s painting videos demonstrate over and over again (just on different minis and with different colours). As a competent painter myself, I’ve yet to learn something from one of those videos other than, “Oh that’s the name of the GW colour that they used on that model”.
I appreciate though that there’s a lot of people who are new to mini painting, who can learn a lot from seeing those basic techniques demonstrated by a good teacher.
The one thing that made me laugh on Duncan’s Instagram was when he stuck some skitarii heads on genestealer cultist bodies and people in the comments were acting like it was the most original and best idea they’d ever seen
Instagram is cute, because it pretty much encourages over the top interactions. I guarantee you half the things I see are not "amazing", but sure as hell i am not typing a detailed post on a phone
Agamemnon2 wrote: To be fair, that's instagram, half its user base is still in grade school.
Ha, true. I like it though as a platform. That’s where I post all my photos of my minis now.
I'd use it more but I can't hotlink to instagram images to post them on IRC or messenger or indeed our fine forums. As such I mostly post landscapes and cooking on mine.
Cronch wrote: Instagram is cute, because it pretty much encourages over the top interactions. I guarantee you half the things I see are not "amazing", but sure as hell i am not typing a detailed post on a phone
I dunno. I have both given and received detailed comments, feedback and questions on Instagram. I like it as a platform far more than a forum because I get to decide who I follow. I only have to spend time looking at things I want to look at and Instagram’s algorithms are pretty good at suggesting new people to follow.
So I pretty much post all my minis on Instagram and only on Instagram these days. I occasionally put something on Facebook but I hate it as a platform an wouldn’t be on it at all if I hadn’t been invited to join one particular group.
Looks like Duncan is not doing this by himself. From Twitter:
Hey folks, so I'm overwhelmed by the amount of support that's being shown for my little venture! I've seen a few questions so to give quick answers: It's not just me working on this, I'm in it with my friend Roger (who has been taking the photos)!
Roger and I have been working on painting tutorials since the very beginning, he's been the guy behind the camera who worked out the camera angles, lighting, sound, then went on to edit together the footage, and so so much more.
Soon we'll be posting a video that explains what we're doing, what you can expect, and how we plan to make a living as this is now our full-time job!
Again thank you so much for all of your support, you have no idea how much it has meant to me, especially over these last few months. As a community you continue to inspire us every day, and we can't wait to show you our first full video. #warmongers #paintingeverything
Has he won a Sword? Or is that one in the back unrelated?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, many followers of Razza's channel have been bemoaning the fact that he's packing up and blaming the Evil Empire GW for the downfall of the channel, but looking at this here - maybe this is why? Maybe the time and effort (both undeniably significant) or keeping his YT going when he knew that this was just around the corner, maybe this is in fact why he called time on his own channel? Less of a need for it, plus being a source of competition that he wasn't looking to be.
That's not the GDsword it looks like a regular sword and shield. I'm not even sure if GW employees are even allowed to run for the Golden Demon painting competition.
Overread wrote: That's not the GDsword it looks like a regular sword and shield. I'm not even sure if GW employees are even allowed to run for the Golden Demon painting competition.
The Open Competition is a separate contest that sits alongside the main Golden Demon categories - as such the winner of the Open Competition is not an eligible contender for the Slayer Sword.
The Open Competition is the only part of the event where Games Workshop staff may enter and compete with the public.
After watching it I do feel its a bit too much aimed at beginners only.
well super high end painters likely have their own skill set developed a fair degree that they need less help, he can do some general things and then slowly expand. I mean even if he doesn't change up at all the fact that he's using paints other then JUST GW is handy
hotsauceman1 wrote: Y'know, I thought his kinda wooden/robotic style of presenting was because GW....
Turns out he is just boring.
I don't see this succeeding for long.
Harsh. Possibly a bit trollish. I liked it. The video started, he painted the model and told us what he was doing and then the video finished. The perfect 'how-to-paint video. Half the run-time wasn't taken up with ads or a preamble about the presenters likes or dislikes. Good to see a vid that isn't 99% narcissism. What else do you want - open with a joke and finish with a song?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Y'know, I thought his kinda wooden/robotic style of presenting was because GW....
Turns out he is just boring.
I don't see this succeeding for long.
And yet most people love Duncan. He’s fun, energetic, does well in the spotlight and is easy to follow...you are, of course, entitled to your wrong opinion.
BrianDavion wrote: he made a good choice with the first mini. sisters are new and GW hasn't released a newer "how to paint sisters" video yet.
At least not a full video that is...
Spoiler:
I'm definitely going to use that Argent Shroud technique on my Necrons.
At least GW ditched their 1 minute painting series that flooded their channel for years.
They only had their 'one-minute tutorials' for about a month when they were posting them on Instagram as well as YouTube and discontinued them after backlash on Facebook.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Y'know, I thought his kinda wooden/robotic style of presenting was because GW....
Turns out he is just boring.
I don't see this succeeding for long.
And yet most people love Duncan. He’s fun, energetic, does well in the spotlight and is easy to follow...you are, of course, entitled to your wrong opinion.
I always found peachy more enjoyable and energetic, Duncan seems kinda like he is reading off a script(yes i know he is, but good ones dont make it feel like it)
As to the painting, I get nothing from this, i know about basing, washing and layering, AKA the GW paint method
it would have been nice to see him break free of that but he did not and its a shame.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Y'know, I thought his kinda wooden/robotic style of presenting was because GW....
Turns out he is just boring.
I don't see this succeeding for long.
Harsh. Possibly a bit trollish. I liked it. The video started, he painted the model and told us what he was doing and then the video finished. The perfect 'how-to-paint video. Half the run-time wasn't taken up with ads or a preamble about the presenters likes or dislikes. Good to see a vid that isn't 99% narcissism. What else do you want - open with a joke and finish with a song?
More techniques and different ways to paint? honestly the "Here is how you paint X" videos are the worst among the painting videos because rather then teach people how to paint in general, they teach them how to paint on specific model in one specific color scheme. you are teaching someone to copy you, not to be a better painter.
Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
More techniques and different ways to paint? honestly the "Here is how you paint X" videos are the worst among the painting videos because rather then teach people how to paint in general, they teach them how to paint on specific model in one specific color scheme. you are teaching someone to copy you, not to be a better painter.
But there's already a billion channels out there doing that. I have no use for Duncan precisely because I'm at a point where he doesn't teach me anything new, and given I don't generally paint GW, even the colour recipes isn't all that relevant.
I'm not going to complain about that though, as clearly he's offering something that people respond to, god knows there's plenty of people out there who struggle with painting, and learning by rote is a decent first step before you evolve to doing your own thing.
Chopstick wrote: Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
Yeah.......it is. MAybe not two hours, but it can be.
Chopstick wrote: Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
Yeah.......it is. MAybe not two hours, but it can be.
Nobody who just starting out would have the time to invest, or even understand what happen in that kind of video. The best way to start out is always copying until you get an idea and understand of the basic, wanting people to invest into painting (as a hobby) by forcing them not to paint, but hearing lecture is probably the best way to scare them away,
I've never understood the fuss around Duncan (I don't want to bash him or anything like that) or WHTW, I get that he's very likable guy and good infront of the camera,
but as for the painting is very mediocre. I've never liked it actually, because the tutorial are very limited and when you see one you actually seen them all.
The only thing that changes are the recipes. Do you really need that many tutorials that are always the same?
The style is always the same and you will stagnate following those tutorials. I've never seen them mixing paints except lahmian medium.
Where are wet blending, loaded brush technique, two brush blending, glazing, feathering technique, mixing all kind of various paints to get different tones.
There are all kinds of different techniques and materials to use and learn.
It seems like the tutorials are to maximize wasting paints so the people would buy more. Just look how much paint is wasted because they don't use a wet palette.
Without a doubt the number one tip should be how to make a wet palette. I can not take a painter seriously when he's not using a wet palette.
Every good painter at least those who make tutorials use one.
You will improve enormously by using one.
There are so many brilliant painters with amazing and quality tutorials on the youtube for people to learn, with every kind of techiques possible.
I thought the corporate GW held Duncan down, shoving GW painting style down peoples throats but looking at the video it's exactly same just with a different editing.
FFS still no wet palette.
Nonetheless I wish him all the best and I hope he succeeds and grow as a painter. I'm happy he left GW.
Chopstick wrote: Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
Yeah.......it is. MAybe not two hours, but it can be.
Nobody who just starting out would have the time to invest, or even understand what happen in that kind of video. The best way to start out is always copying until you get an idea and understand of the basic, wanting people to invest into painting (as a hobby) by forcing them not to paint, but hearing lecture is probably the best way to scare them away,
I mean, what do you think is better?
"Here is a way to paint this model, and only this model"
or
"Here is a Breakdown of the layering technique and how to apply it across multiple models.
The style is always the same and you will stagnate following those tutorials. I've never seen them mixing paints except lahmian medium.
Where are wet blending, loaded brush technique, two brush flending, glazing, feathering technique, mixing all kind of various paints to get different tones.
Thats pretty much it, There are so many ways to get better, but this videos are not made with the idea of getting better, but showing you how to paint one specific model.
Whenever i talk to people who want to get better at painting and look at my stuff, i inevitably hear one thing
"what paints did you use" and my answer is "IDK, what looked good at the time" They want to copy you, not make their own stuff
Because it isnt the paints you use, its the techniques and knowledge of said techniques.
Its also like when people ask to improve they say "I followed X tutorial" and im like, there is your problem, you are following a tutorial rather than making your own path
Chopstick wrote: Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
Yeah.......it is. MAybe not two hours, but it can be.
Chopstick wrote: Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
Yeah.......it is. MAybe not two hours, but it can be.
I paint better than you and I disagree with what you've said here.
I dont think i have ever posted anything on here. so
1: How would you know
2: My opinion has nothing to do with skill level and more about my personal experiance.
I got better, atleast IMO, when i stopped apeing others and created my own way to paint.
Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
I dont think i have ever posted anything on here. so
1: How would you know
2: My opinion has nothing to do with skill level and more about my personal experiance.
I got better, atleast IMO, when i stopped apeing others and created my own way to paint.
From my personal experience, I started painting however I wanted, got very good at it, then started painting how a master told me to paint, ie doing the exact same thing with the exact same stuff, and realised it was a much easier way to learn. The other bit that I originally wrote was intended to qualify my opinion but I decided it looked bad and was unnecessary so I deleted it before you replied.
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
I mean, is that really a question? I mostly paint to relax, and because I like painted minis. I barely improve at the skills that pay the bills, much less my hobbies.
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
Because you don’t like having grey models, but don’t enjoy painting? I really don’t like painting, and while I would like to improve at it, I’m not gonna put that much time into something I don’t like doing. There’s lots of stuff I do in life that I’m never going to master.
I dont think i have ever posted anything on here. so
1: How would you know
2: My opinion has nothing to do with skill level and more about my personal experiance.
I got better, atleast IMO, when i stopped apeing others and created my own way to paint.
From my personal experience, I started painting however I wanted, got very good at it, then started painting how a master told me to paint, ie doing the exact same thing with the exact same stuff, and realised it was a much easier way to learn. The other bit that I originally wrote was intended to qualify my opinion but I decided it looked bad and was unnecessary so I deleted it before you replied.
That isnt what im talking about, what im talking about are videos like GW and Duncans where rather than teaching you to paint, its teaching you how to paint a specific model and only that.
ITs like following a recipe to the T, compared to learning cooking techniques and such to make you a better cook
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
Because you don’t like having grey models, but don’t enjoy painting? I really don’t like painting, and while I would like to improve at it, I’m not gonna put that much time into something I don’t like doing. There’s lots of stuff I do in life that I’m never going to master.
Im confused, if you dont like it, why do it? Why get into a hobby that pretty much forces you to?
I like Duncan and a few of his character videos have helped me in terms of replicating certain schemes.
But I can't help but agree with the format. It is effectively the GW style. It certainly has a place, but he's competing with GW's own videos in that market and is functioning off his name alone.
I am not going to write him off though because he's just started. He definitely should branch into other types of videos including advanced techniques as I am sure he is capable of them. That way he can grab a cross-section of painters.
If he simply continues the GW 'how to paint this specific model' then I'm sure he will do fine anyways, but I think he can do better.
I dont think i have ever posted anything on here. so
1: How would you know
2: My opinion has nothing to do with skill level and more about my personal experiance.
I got better, atleast IMO, when i stopped apeing others and created my own way to paint.
From my personal experience, I started painting however I wanted, got very good at it, then started painting how a master told me to paint, ie doing the exact same thing with the exact same stuff, and realised it was a much easier way to learn. The other bit that I originally wrote was intended to qualify my opinion but I decided it looked bad and was unnecessary so I deleted it before you replied.
That isnt what im talking about, what im talking about are videos like GW and Duncans where rather than teaching you to paint, its teaching you how to paint a specific model and only that.
ITs like following a recipe to the T, compared to learning cooking techniques and such to make you a better cook
I don't rate Duncan as a painter, as far as these videos go. I know this isn't the best he can do as I've seen other minis by him that look much better. The concept though (do exactly this, not more not less, until you know what the feth you are doing) is tried and tested. Obviously doesn't work for everything, but for applying acrylic paint to plastic toys, it's effective. Look at Darren Latham's YT, he did a series called Masterclass. I have not painted anything in 10 years, I followed this guide (it is what inspired me to start painting again), and achieved similar results. Obviously some of my skill has carried over, but if I tried to achieve the same using a collection of his other videos (eg this is how to glaze, this is how do a nice bright red), I would have been completely lost. The fact that I followed the guide that says "Step one, mix this colour, apply it here, like this, then go to step two" meant that so far I've produced something very similar to the product that was intended. His YT https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSz0WzAuhwjezFyEIv3Xksg (Lord of Blights)
A lot of people DO want a recipe. They see the GW or any other brand default paint schemes, and they want to emulate that paint scheme.
Tutorials for beginners that focus on those schemes are a great starting point because many beginners will be wanting to emulate the scheme anyway. You use those schemes to teach basic methods and you appeal to a large bracket of the market.
After that you can start to introduce more theory, more concepts and imagination and suchlike.
This is a brand new site so the fact that Duncan is starting at the beginning with a new and popular army in its standard colours makes perfect sense. This is ONE video not the whole production. It's very clear that there's going to be a whole range of material coming. This is just a taste of what is to come and one example of the tutorials.
Yep first video and I do hope to see in the future loads of different content too.
I do get were people are coming from regarding GW style of tutorials, but let's face it its quite effective for beginners and people painting loads of minis to Tabletop level.
My favourite type of tutorials are Darren ones and its sad to see it go, these are medium high level of painting and relaxing to watch and free.
If Duncan does some like that great but if he chooses not to, well then also good for him if that is the niche he wants to be in.
I just find quality tutorials are always a positive regardless if its something that you will personally need or not.
I'd pay for more content from him. I hope that's what they're going with, I really do. ie monetising the project (though I think it's just as likely that he has decided it's taking up too much of his free time. It is by no means a trivial endeavour, the quality of the videos is high)
The channel is basically the same as Duncan’s older long form videos on the official channel but will probably be using much more non-GW stuff. It’s going to be very useful for beginners. Not so much for anyone experienced in painting. I still don’t get the weird elitism this thread had brought up, 90% of people who paint there models for the purpose of gaming want them to replicate the box art, the tutorials are amazing for that. Learning to paint stuff like that well gives people the confidence to try their own thing and apply stuff they’ve learned. Even stuff like thin your paints, how to use washes and shades properly and edge highlighting is not obvious for everyone.
Templarted wrote: The channel is basically the same as Duncan’s older long form videos on the official channel but will probably be using much more non-GW stuff. It’s going to be very useful for beginners. Not so much for anyone experienced in painting. I still don’t get the weird elitism this thread had brought up, 90% of people who paint there models for the purpose of gaming want them to replicate the box art, the tutorials are amazing for that. Learning to paint stuff like that well gives people the confidence to try their own thing and apply stuff they’ve learned. Even stuff like thin your paints, how to use washes and shades properly and edge highlighting is not obvious for everyone.
Is "I don't really want this" the same as "weird elitism"? Because I'm not too interested in this (so far), I've said as much, and I don't think I'm either elitist or weird .
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
Because you don’t like having grey models, but don’t enjoy painting? I really don’t like painting, and while I would like to improve at it, I’m not gonna put that much time into something I don’t like doing. There’s lots of stuff I do in life that I’m never going to master.
Im confused, if you dont like it, why do it? Why get into a hobby that pretty much forces you to?
Templarted wrote: The channel is basically the same as Duncan’s older long form videos on the official channel but will probably be using much more non-GW stuff. It’s going to be very useful for beginners. Not so much for anyone experienced in painting. I still don’t get the weird elitism this thread had brought up, 90% of people who paint there models for the purpose of gaming want them to replicate the box art, the tutorials are amazing for that. Learning to paint stuff like that well gives people the confidence to try their own thing and apply stuff they’ve learned. Even stuff like thin your paints, how to use washes and shades properly and edge highlighting is not obvious for everyone.
Then why not make videos that show the aspect of that? Why not videos about edge highlights or washes
Heck Angel Gireldez just released one about washes. Teaching people techniques will be better than bpajnt by numbes
Templarted wrote: The channel is basically the same as Duncan’s older long form videos on the official channel but will probably be using much more non-GW stuff. It’s going to be very useful for beginners. Not so much for anyone experienced in painting. I still don’t get the weird elitism this thread had brought up, 90% of people who paint there models for the purpose of gaming want them to replicate the box art, the tutorials are amazing for that. Learning to paint stuff like that well gives people the confidence to try their own thing and apply stuff they’ve learned. Even stuff like thin your paints, how to use washes and shades properly and edge highlighting is not obvious for everyone.
Is "I don't really want this" the same as "weird elitism"? Because I'm not too interested in this (so far), I've said as much, and I don't think I'm either elitist or weird .
Saying it’s not for you isn’t weird elitism. I doubt I’d watch many of Duncan’s videos either but they’re very good for beginners. Saying that videos telling you how to paint a model a certain way is redundant and teaches nothing is weird elitism.
Templarted wrote: The channel is basically the same as Duncan’s older long form videos on the official channel but will probably be using much more non-GW stuff. It’s going to be very useful for beginners. Not so much for anyone experienced in painting. I still don’t get the weird elitism this thread had brought up, 90% of people who paint there models for the purpose of gaming want them to replicate the box art, the tutorials are amazing for that. Learning to paint stuff like that well gives people the confidence to try their own thing and apply stuff they’ve learned. Even stuff like thin your paints, how to use washes and shades properly and edge highlighting is not obvious for everyone.
Then why not make videos that show the aspect of that? Why not videos about edge highlights or washes
Heck Angel Gireldez just released one about washes. Teaching people techniques will be better than bpajnt by numbes
The video teaches concepts that can be applied to different models. “Paint by numbers” is an exceptionally good way to teach people who don’t know basic techniques and helps them gain confidence. Everyone learns differently, if the concept is relayed to someone in a simple and relatable way it’s a lot easier to learn that.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Y'know, I thought his kinda wooden/robotic style of presenting was because GW....
Turns out he is just boring.
I don't see this succeeding for long.
And yet most people love Duncan. He’s fun, energetic, does well in the spotlight and is easy to follow...you are, of course, entitled to your wrong opinion.
He's got a huge following for sure. He had just over 20k subscribers after posting his first 16 second teaser video, now after a week he's already up to 33k+
He's hinted on twitter that he will be covering more painting techniques and different paint ranges later on (plus using a wet palette).
His style and market though isn't how to paint a model to win a GD event. It's how to show people that painting models isn't something scary or impossible to learn and the steps on getting stuff to look good on the table at a higher than your average tabletop standard.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
Some of us either don't like or don't care about painting. Duncan's videos have helped me get motivated to try things, and do things in ways I wouldn't know how because I'm not a painter.
If you don't like him that's fine, but don't gak on him or others for liking his videos.
It's one tutorial, and people have decided he's not doing anything new? LMAO! He's got over 33k followers already with one tutorial. I think he will be okay.
What did you expect? an 8-hour Masterclass using 63 gazillion techniques right out of the gate? He's gotta establish the channel first, since GW owns all the previous stuff.
I imagine he's going to be doing the basics first, like the GW vids, because that's how most of us know him. A few 40k, some AoS, then wander into historicals.
Then he will probably get into higher technique a couple videos down the road.
I've seen his personal stuff on twitter, and he's definitely using more than the basics.
Chopstick wrote: Yes because the best way to teach people how to paint is a 2 hour video about color theory and painting technique, "And here's the final product! Go find your own color, dont copy me peasant!"
Yeah.......it is. MAybe not two hours, but it can be.
Nobody who just starting out would have the time to invest, or even understand what happen in that kind of video. The best way to start out is always copying until you get an idea and understand of the basic, wanting people to invest into painting (as a hobby) by forcing them not to paint, but hearing lecture is probably the best way to scare them away,
I mean, what do you think is better?
"Here is a way to paint this model, and only this model"
or
"Here is a Breakdown of the layering technique and how to apply it across multiple models.
I don't think the answer is as obvious as you think. Yes, videos on good techniques are useful. But how many of them do I need? How many times do I need to see someone explain drybrushing, layering or wet blending? I would say: once, but done well. Most of those videos already exist.
The thing about videos that are essentially color recipes for specific models? You can have as many of those as there are specific models and colour schemes. I get that you think you've see that all before, but really, what haven't you seen before? Certainly not another tutorial on non-metallic metals.
Having said that, I think some people skipped the intro video. This will be a subscription site. $5/£4 a month. There will still be free YouTube videos but most of the content will be on the site. It's that where I imagine we will see the more generic videos, as you need something that will keep people hooked even when they're not painting the models you're currently painting.
I mean i get that but i just feel as if rather than doing the way GW and it seem DR teaches is incredibly generic and promotes copycatting rather than learning your own way and how you do it and what you should do.
Think of it this way, Drawing books, many many illustrators i know started doing drawing books, How to draw manga and stuff like that or how to draw cats and such, one even had how to draw furries.
They all said that learning from those was great and good, but it resulted it a frankenstein style of drawing where nothing looked good or consistent, it wasn't until they started to learn new techniques and learning to do it their own way that they grew as artists and developed their own style.
These videos are those Illustration books
I disagree - I think in the context of what his videos are meant to achieve and teach they hit the mark.
Previously on several WHTV videos, he demonstrated several techniques that form a core for everything else - things like layering etc.
Besides, he's mentioned already that he is looking at doing videos more in depth tutorials later on. Perhaps he'll do something later on you can enjoy and agree with - if not all good mate, move on.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean i get that but i just feel as if rather than doing the way GW and it seem DR teaches is incredibly generic and promotes copycatting rather than learning your own way and how you do it and what you should do.
Think of it this way, Drawing books, many many illustrators i know started doing drawing books, How to draw manga and stuff like that or how to draw cats and such, one even had how to draw furries.
They all said that learning from those was great and good, but it resulted it a frankenstein style of drawing where nothing looked good or consistent, it wasn't until they started to learn new techniques and learning to do it their own way that they grew as artists and developed their own style.
These videos are those Illustration books
They are. And they are meant to be. Those illustrators you mention may have no need for those books now, but did those not help them get started? Did those not teach them some useful basic techniques (e.g. starting with a core of simple shapes, setting out proportions)? Did they not acquire fine motor skills, and perhaps increased confidence in their ability? And as people have pointed out several times now, are those basics not sufficient for those who have no desire of going beyond that point?
If this one, single video released so far isn't for you, odds are it isn't meant to be. The fact that multiple people have already pointed out it is the kind of thing they do want, or something they used to enjoy when starting out, shows there is an audience for it, and that is all that matters. Whether you or I are part of that audience is entirely irrelevant. Maybe a future video will have more applications for experienced painters, maybe it won't. But to say these are somehow inherently bad is completely missing the point. Same as learning to illustrate. Same as learning a new language, where you start with whole sentences for which you don't yet understand the grammar. You have to start somewhere, and if you want to start somewhere that still gives you a finished model (rather than one in which only the armour is masterfully painted, the rest only undercoated), this is exactly the video you'd want.
But why not just start with those techniques to get a jump start and skip all of it? Why not start with glazing, learning volume and color theory and wetblending and tones and variation.
Learn for yourself and not copy people.
Yes these may not be for me, but as i have said, its also a flooded market and one the promotes stagnation and learning by following a step by step guide. So they never get better, they never learn to think for themselves and just get the paint the man on the YT got because he told me it will be good. Rather then going out, exploring new things and trying to learn to be better.
Why watch painting videos in general if not to be better?
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
This is a garbage hot take. Every painter has different potential, delineated by their circumstances, resources, mindset and natural ability. Personally, I've been doing this for 25 years. I painted the best miniatures I'll ever paint several years ago. There's never going to be improvement for me beyond that level. I'm getting older, and my eyesight and other faculties are steadily worsening.
ImAGeek wrote: Not everyone feels the need to constantly improve as a painter. Some people just wanna get their stuff non-grey. He has a market, and not everyone is going to fall into it, but such is life.
Why do something at all if you are not going to improve at it?:
This is a garbage hot take. Every painter has different potential, delineated by their circumstances, resources, mindset and natural ability. Personally, I've been doing this for 25 years. I painted the best miniatures I'll ever paint several years ago. There's never going to be improvement for me beyond that level. I'm getting older, and my eyesight and other faculties are steadily worsening.
Can’t really agree (not talking about the personal stuff).
But generally the more experience a person has in doing something, the more he is inclined to get better, while gaining that XP.
It might not be as one dimensional as “finer details”, but new techniques, or improvement on the old ones.
Personally, I don’t find WHC or Duncan’s videos useful(I would some time ago though). But others might get the help they need there. I would wager, that Duncan branching out into more artistic and specific techniques stuff would do him good and spark the interest of the people, who have already passed the “by the numbers” stage
hotsauceman1 wrote: But why not just start with those techniques to get a jump start and skip all of it? Why not start with glazing, learning volume and color theory and wetblending and tones and variation.
Learn for yourself and not copy people.
Yes these may not be for me, but as i have said, its also a flooded market and one the promotes stagnation and learning by following a step by step guide. So they never get better, they never learn to think for themselves and just get the paint the man on the YT got because he told me it will be good. Rather then going out, exploring new things and trying to learn to be better.
Why watch painting videos in general if not to be better?
You clearly have never worked in Marketing.
Duncan has a very large fan base already based on doing these paint by numbers videos - as shown by his 33,000 subscribers from a single video, or 20,000 subscribers before he even released a painting video!
If the very first video he released was an in depth talk about colour theory, how many of these fans of paint by numbers do you think would drop their subscription?
Ultimately he is now a self employed man running a business, and the number one rule for running a business if give the people what they want - if you don't they will go elsewhere. If he has an interest in more in depth videos he can gradually steer his fans in that way. Maybe in 3 to 4 video times he will touch on wet blending, then in another 4 to 5 videos he'll do a video showcasing this in more detail, but to just immediately launch into something radically different to what he already did would just alienate his fan base, and seen him end up at the job centre looking fro a new job.
People also seem to be missing the rather obvious conclusion from him posting a basic paint-by-numbers tutorial on the free youtube channel - the advanced, non-paint-by-numbers stuff is going to be paid content.
If he does the WHTV-style "beginner" tutorials on a semi-regular basis for free on his YT channel, he maintains a solid following and can leverage the minority of that following that do want to improve and move on to more advanced techniques and concepts to make money.
This is a garbage hot take. Every painter has different potential, delineated by their circumstances, resources, mindset and natural ability. Personally, I've been doing this for 25 years. I painted the best miniatures I'll ever paint several years ago. There's never going to be improvement for me beyond that level. I'm getting older, and my eyesight and other faculties are steadily worsening.
Can’t really agree (not talking about the personal stuff).
But generally the more experience a person has in doing something, the more he is inclined to get better, while gaining that XP.
It might not be as one dimensional as “finer details”, but new techniques, or improvement on the old ones
There's a difference between skills and talent, though. One can be taught, whereas the other is either a product of or strongly influenced by inborn attributes like fine motor control, good eyesight, et cetera.
I dislike the notion and concept of "natural talent" in people. Mostly because people tend to thrust the concept high in the air when talking about the arts, but never really in other subject areas.
No one loudly proclaims that someone is a natural builder or roadsweeper or electrician. However art appears to hold some kind of mystical position in our minds that to achieve in it you have to be born with some kind of special brain. Then there's the whole left and right side thing that came out in school theory for a while that students were "either sciency or arty"
It's my observation that most people can achieve most things provided that they have a normally developed body and mind. The key is experience, practice, motivation, access to resources and guidance.
Heck if you look at many of the great musicians and artists (especially in the past) the majority show "pushy parents" often had them trained at a very young age. If you started playing the piano at 3 chances are by 18 you will be pretty darn good if its been a primary focus of your most formative education years.
The same is true for the arts. I think that we hold art in a mystical position today because, honestly, there are a lot of bad art teachers out there. The school system might also not play into the requirements to further the arts; but the teachers themselves are often not as skilled at a technical level as they should be. As a result many students are mostly left to develop their own skills rather than being given a proper grounding in the basic concepts, practice etc... As a result you get this "natural talent" angle develop in peoples minds as some fail and others seem to do well and the way schools work they fawn over one and abandon/discourage the other.
Heck miniature model painting alone should show many of us that we can learn painting skills and art skills to a pretty high level of skill. Furthermore geeky hobbies, which tend to attract those into the sciences, which have a high level of artistic creation; further show that ideas of "arty or sciency" are totally constructed concepts that don't really translate into reality.
In short Beethoven wasn't born a musician. He was born and from a very young age was trained extensively in the musical arts. By the time he was an adult he already had years of skills and understanding built up during the years when the human mind is most accepting and ready to process new information. If he'd started at 18 going to uni he'd have had to wait till his near 40s to have had just the same length of time learning.
Of course there are a very tiny percentage who do show what many would consider a "Savant" level of skill within a craft. How much of that is chance connections and how much is this mythological "Natural talent" is up for debate. It's perhaps the only area my theory falls down; however it applies to only a very tiny percentage of the population that its not worth considering for the vast majority of people.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean i get that but i just feel as if rather than doing the way GW and it seem DR teaches is incredibly generic and promotes copycatting rather than learning your own way and how you do it and what you should do.
But if he made videos that just taught generic techniques, would you watch those either? Or do you already have that knowledge?
This the problem - there's plenty of good painters on here that don't need YouTube tutorials at all. Which is fine. But those people saying they would rather have a different type of video for other people to watch, even though they will watch neither... it's not that useful. And for better or worse the sorts of tutorials GW did and Duncan has done in his first video tend to be very popular compared to those other videos. And can actually offer something different.
Now if the argument is that we don't actually need any more painting videos on YouTube, because the basic techniques are covered, and I can write down a colour recipe for a specific model in 2 minutes rather than make a 30 minute video... then yeah, you may have a point. Unless you think YouTube is still actually lacking for a really good basics and techniques series, which I can also see (there are many, many of them but no obvious "this is the best" has emerged)
I think is the opposite, there are gazillion low level or average painting tutorials but not many like painting budha (Ben Komets) tutorials which is still one of the best hi end painting tutorials on youtube.
Duncan's videos, both at WHTV and his new Academy are to make painting more approachable for individuals who are intimidated by it. They're not targeting well experienced painters. Additionally, they're a kind of do-along (paint-along) style video where you can follow his steps and color pallet along with him to achieve a similar result.
If you're trying to learn advanced techniques or want to take Roy completely off the grid and do your own thing entirely than these videos aren't for you.
Personally, I like them to see how another person approaches the model; which brushes they choose and how they perform for the selected task and also to see what the results of their color pallet yield.
Not every video needs to be groundbreaking and revolutionary or increase your own skill.
Paying is not an option for me though, not even for state of the art painting tutorials that make you like a Picasso.
Specially when you have so much for free already available. The Warhammer channel for example delivers the exact same thing free of charge so I don't see how this would work out.
Advanced tutorials are more my cup of tea since I like to learn new things but that's me. When I started internet was not a thing so yeah I can se my young son now getting onboard with these easier tutorials.
I see Duncan like those personal trainers motivating you all the way, and that's a good thing for some.
Also don't forget if he paints a Sister of Battle with black leather you can watch that video and take the black leather parts to your Daughters of Khaine quite easily. So there are options to go "off scheme" with your own unique take.
Remember a lot of beginners don't quite get the whole on how to build up just "any" colour of their choosing. They are more likely to pick specific tutorials and colours (just like the GW painting app presents) and paint their model using those recipies.
Without a doubt the number one tip should be how to make a wet palette. I can not take a painter seriously when he's not using a wet palette.
Every good painter at least those who make tutorials use one.
You will improve enormously by using one.
There are so many brilliant painters with amazing and quality tutorials on the youtube for people to learn, with every kind of techiques possible.
I thought the corporate GW held Duncan down, shoving GW painting style down peoples throats but looking at the video it's exactly same just with a different editing.
FFS still no wet palette.
I own a wet palette, but I very rarely use it. It just feels like a matter of personal taste. Does that mean I’m not a good painter? I like to flatter myself that I’m a bit better than average. I mean I keep hearing people say that you can only paint properly with a wet palette, but I’ve yet to see any evidence that it’s true. It just suits certain techniques more perhaps, but not everyone likes those techniques. Just I’ve survived thus far without ever trying two brush techniques.
I own a wet palette, but I very rarely use it. It just feels like a matter of personal taste. Does that mean I’m not a good painter? I like to flatter myself that I’m a bit better than average. I mean I keep hearing people say that you can only paint properly with a wet palette, but I’ve yet to see any evidence that it’s true. It just suits certain techniques more perhaps, but not everyone likes those techniques. Just I’ve survived thus far without ever trying two brush techniques.
No, not using a wet palette doesn't make you a bad painter, my statement was more intended for those who do tutorials on a single mini. Without the palette some
techniques are really hard to pull off. I can use the same paint for a week on a wet palette.
hotsauceman1 wrote: But why not just start with those techniques to get a jump start and skip all of it? Why not start with glazing, learning volume and color theory and wetblending and tones and variation.
This is the worst thing to do to someone who is new to the hobby. Someone new to painting models or someone who has never painted in general before are going to be overwhelmed and give up if you suddenly start talking about wet blending and mixing colours if they don't even know how to layer in the first place.
I'm actually quite interested to see how he does that one. There are already a fair few beginner level painting videos for Star Wars stuff as a result of Legion & Imperial Assault, but I'm always looking for better time/effort to results ratios.
I think some people are missing the point, it's an academy I.e a school , in any subject you start with basics and work your way up through the subject till you become more competent.
Duncan taught me how to get reasonable looking models onto a table top. Now I paint without the need for tutorials as have learnt from them and applied techniques learnt from them.
I actually don't understand why there is such a heated debate , if his videos don't appeal , don't watch or subscribe, go somewhere else.
Marxist artist wrote: I think some people are missing the point, it's an academy I.e a school , in any subject you start with basics and work your way up through the subject till you become more competent.
Duncan taught me how to get reasonable looking models onto a table top. Now I paint without the need for tutorials as have learnt from them and applied techniques learnt from them.
I actually don't understand why there is such a heated debate , if his videos don't appeal , don't watch or subscribe, go somewhere else.
Gatekeeping. Snobbish-ness.
Why learn 'Smoke on the Water' on guitar? Why not learn about chord progression, counterpoint, harmonics and other musical theory and write your own music? Don't just play other people's stuff! I can't take you seriously unless you've got you're own recording studio!
Alternatively, the argument isn't heated in the slightest, disagreement is normal, expression of preferences is absolutely acceptable, and people saying "It's kinda outrageous that everyone isn't cheering this" are absurd.
I think one of the other things to bear in mind is that Duncan and Roger's videos actually take a lot of preparation.
It's not just a case of sitting at the desk and filming.
Everything is planned and scripted well in advance, from the script, to the camera angles as well as the paints and methods.
I'm not talking about Hollywood style story boarding kinda level, but these long format videos do take a while to get ready and is probably why it's taken GW a while to bring them back.
I suspect that Sisters of Battle video was one that Duncan and Roger had already scripted before they left WHTV and took it with them.
That's why the only non-GW products used were the brushes as these could be changed once filming started but the paints had already been planned.
I suspect later videos will use more non-GW products, which allows Duncan to show new techniques.
I also think if my theory is correct then GW pretty much set their own standard of "Battle Ready" and "Parade Ready" and they prefer not to have 'Eavy Metal style tips and ticks for their viewers. Once Duncan starts writing scripts for his own channel this may change.
And just to add, I have been painting for over 30 years but I often learned new things in Duncan's videos.
And already stated, we're not getting any younger and I would rather learn techniques to get my minis painted to a good standard but more quickly.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Then why not a video on layering and how to apply layeri across revert surfaces.
Because it would be a dumb move from a business view. Duncan (or WarhammerTV) already had a large following of people interested exactly in this kind of video. And the only sensible thing when you break with your employer to start something yourself is to take as many clients as possible with you.
He also improved a bit from the old videos by naming alternatives to some paints and brushes used.
