Secret Weapon has been working on these babies for quite some time, testing, refining, enhancing... and they are about to launch their KS on MARCH 18th -April 8th.
So what are we talking about here?
We are talking about full color, textured 3D prints directly on HIPS bases in just about every size you could ask for. The prints are resilient as hell, and 100% READY TO USE out of the box. You just glue your minis on (or pin even!) as you normally would and that's it, your bases are game ready.
All themes currently ready are available to choose from at launch. Totaling 17 SWM unique designs - The goal with the designs is to do things that are hard to replicate yourself without investing a ton of time and quite likely a lot of skill. Fine line-work, gradients, patterns. All with at least 2-3 levels of UV printed relief, adding amazing texture that is shockingly effective, especially in real life.
I can say this without any reservation, these guys are game changers. The quality is stunning, but the potential to save time is absolutely insane.
In addition to the below 17 themes, we also have 4 Infinity Themes currently prototyping and 2 Zombiecides on the way! We will be using their official graphics to create Infinity HD Bases and Zombiecide board compatible... stay tuned!
Here are the themes added during the KS so far in response to requests from you guys!
Another important fact - 100% made in the USA. They will be able to distribute to other markets with partners, but no China plastic shenanigans for this KS!
Remember... this is no sticker....
FAQ Questions in the thread -
Q: How much will they cost?
A: They will be VERY close to the price of an equivalent set of resin bases from SWM. So, for the same price, you get to do NO WORK AT ALL and have incredible looking bases. The KS is ~30% off retail
Q: Are they fragile like Shapeways etc.?
A: They are extremely resilient and hard, being UV cured 3D printing ink, this is a different beast than the powdery and 3D prints you may have had experience with before. You have to go at them pretty hard with something very hard and sharp to put a dent in them. They also will not shatter, you can pin on them too. They bond thoroughly to the base during the printing process.
Q: Are the bases hollow underneath like a regular plastic base?
A: Yes they are, they are in fact, regular HIPS plastic bases just as you know. You can magnetize or weight to your heart's content just as you always have if that is your thing!
Q: How high are they, what do you mean by texture?
A: The prints are texturized, with multiple levels of depth, but they are texture about 1-2mm, not objects sticking out. Think of it like a super emboss, but with a lot more detail and sharpness. It enhances the look as all those edges catch the light and add a huge impression of depth, especially on things like grass, vents and grillwork, bolts, seams on decking, diamond plate... those things are in scale relief and we are emphasizing that kind of application.
Q: What sizes will be available?
A: As of time of writing,
Q: How do I attach my models?
A: Super Glue*, Pinning, Magnets all work just fine. Plastic Glue does not effect the top image, but will effect the base itself, so not too useful. Pinning is no problem at all, you can drill through, even with big bits, and the image does not shatter or deform. You can pin it like it's resin without worry.
*Q: Is there an issue with reaction of glue fogging?
A: The bases do not fog with Superglue (though you will see a shine like always if it spreads out beyond your model), they are not impacted by typical chemicals used like pigment fixer, isopropyl alcohol, matte or gloss varnish, so far, completely stable and non-reactive to everything we have thrown at it.
If this is the same full colour 3D printing tech that Shapeways and Hero Forge use, their is a issue with durability and chipping. So seeing that these are more like inserts for a recessed plastic base is very smart.
Thanks! The bases were begging for the treatment -
Should def mention - it's not that shapeways powdery stuff, this is UV ink printing, it is SUPER resilient when cured. Nothing short of aggressively scraping with an exacto or going at it with a drill bit has even dented them. They don't shatter either even when pierced or damaged, they are bonded to the base like dried crazy glue.
There will be videos on the resiliency coming up shortly I believe -but it is definitely a key thing to remember that these aren't inserts or stickers, this is UV printed and cured right into a HIPS plastic base blank. They are truly one object and completely bonded.
I backed their terrain KS a few years ago, and was quite happy with the results. SWM's resin bases are great, though they take time to paint. I also have their washes, and particularly recommend Stone for underground dungeon terrain. If you're not familiar with their bases, pick up their Bag-o-Crap. It's a pound of resin rejects which, imo, are still quite good for basing.
Potential dealbreaker - is the bottom/underside of the base completely flat or is there room underneath for a magnet? If it's completely flat then these are useless for me, if it's got room underneath to glue a rare earth magnet I will but the everliving feth out of these
Kalamadea wrote: Potential dealbreaker - is the bottom/underside of the base completely flat or is there room underneath for a magnet? If it's completely flat then these are useless for me, if it's got room underneath to glue a rare earth magnet I will but the everliving feth out of these
It's easy enough to drill a hole for the magnet, if they don't.
Kalamadea wrote: Potential dealbreaker - is the bottom/underside of the base completely flat or is there room underneath for a magnet? If it's completely flat then these are useless for me, if it's got room underneath to glue a rare earth magnet I will but the everliving feth out of these
It's easy enough to drill a hole for the magnet, if they don't.
Well you are in luck, they are what you would expect from a HIPS plastic base, bottom is hollow
Looks great, am intersted to see exactly what sizes and shapes will be on offer but hose cobblestone style ones are perfect for a project I have planned.
ingtaer wrote: Looks great, am intersted to see exactly what sizes and shapes will be on offer but hose cobblestone style ones are perfect for a project I have planned.
ingtaer wrote: Looks great, am intersted to see exactly what sizes and shapes will be on offer but hose cobblestone style ones are perfect for a project I have planned.
A medieval gentlemen club scene?
Yes. Where gentlemen from all over Europe gathered to have a party in Constantinople because they got lost looking for Jerusalem, called the Fourth Crusade.
Speaking of medieval meetings in Constantinople... Here is theme #2, Mosaic Burst. It is a bit unusual compared to what we typically see in mini basing themes, but that is because painting this freehand on a squad, much less an army, would be a pretty insane undertaking. This is an example of leveraging the tech to get ourselves something complex in detail and layout, that you can now easily stick a whole army on in an hour. To me, this different than usual aesthetic is very exciting!
Believe it or not, based on real middle eastern mosaics. Not to worry, not every theme will be for everyone and this one is definitely a lot further away from traditional than many of the others. By the end of it, if all goes well, there should definitely be something for just about everyone
ingtaer wrote: Looks great, am intersted to see exactly what sizes and shapes will be on offer but hose cobblestone style ones are perfect for a project I have planned.
A medieval gentlemen club scene?
Yes. Where gentlemen from all over Europe gathered to have a party in Constantinople because they got lost looking for Jerusalem, called the Fourth Crusade.
Is that where they lost their hose?
MajorTom11 wrote:Believe it or not, based on real middle eastern mosaics. Not to worry, not every theme will be for everyone and this one is definitely a lot further away from traditional than many of the others. By the end of it, if all goes well, there should definitely be something for just about everyone
Those look great, but are all a bit too bright for my purposes. How does the material take to washes/weathering/etc if I wanted to grunge them up?
Specifically wondering about the mosaics and if a simple wash of Seraphim Sepia or maybe one of the Army Painter inks would dull down the colors and make it look old and... well... to put it in the simplest terms - Warhammery.
You could absolutely do that, it is like painting on plastic. Some of them are very rough textured in areas but the tile/mosaic/stone ones will definitely take washes and drybrushing just as you would be used to. Depending on what you are looking for, as is it will run into the recesses very smoothly, if you wan the whole surface of mosaic to grip a wash, you can always give it a really light spray of matte first, or, just a watered down matte coat brushed on with a large brush. Transparent priming. Either way, inking recesses, washing the whole thing, it will take it with a very minimum of fuss, particularly mosaic which is quite smooth but for the seams between the tiles. Industopia is a rougher theme all around in terms of the surface, a lot more going on and micro grunge details -
Both seem to be common bases, but my lava ends up looking like a 3rd grader painted it, and just getting the paint into those tiny runic cracks is a PITA. Forget even trying this OSL stuff.
This looks very promising. Although I'm not super interested in round bases, would be cool if someone did bases like this for regimental games down the line.
This is a really cool idea, but for me I think the only one that looks good is maybe the rocky base with the manhole cover on it.. the others are just too busy looking for me. I think I'd go blind having to look at an army with the mosaic bases.
So lets see...I can identify uses for these for damn near all of my unbased minis...Carnivale (Mosaic), SoB (Fleur-de-Lys) Empire of the Dead (Cobblestone) and Aleph (obvious Infinity reference).
All I need to see is something Jungle-ish or Mayan and my Seraphon will be happy.
Necros wrote: This is a really cool idea, but for me I think the only one that looks good is maybe the rocky base with the manhole cover on it.. the others are just too busy looking for me. I think I'd go blind having to look at an army with the mosaic bases.
Well, it would likely look a little better if you went and added some base accessories to break it up. Some do-dads here or there would probably go a long way, not to mention the miniature itself.
I think these are very smart. While on its face embossed printing wouldn't have a lot of depth, when has a tile floor had depth particularly at 28mm scale.
I think anywhere you would consider using a sheet of plasticard for texture, but don't need the structure, this is a perfect alternative.
Necros wrote: This is a really cool idea, but for me I think the only one that looks good is maybe the rocky base with the manhole cover on it.. the others are just too busy looking for me. I think I'd go blind having to look at an army with the mosaic bases.
Well, it would likely look a little better if you went and added some base accessories to break it up. Some do-dads here or there would probably go a long way, not to mention the miniature itself.
I'm not sure that adding extra detail would be the way to combat them being too busy...
I think the tile and mosaic bases are the most interesting here, if only because they're the most paintful to paint by hand. The others are pretty, although I would agree that some (particularly the industrial one) just have too much going on. Curious to see what other designs there are.
Time for another of the launch themes - This one is more on the beaten track, steampunky, 18-19th century good old fashioned cobblestones - a manhole here and there, a little dirt and detritus building up in corners... Check out the Town Square Theme!
It's weird, I don't think I would use these because... I actually like doing traditional basing. I think I might liked doing basing and terrain more than I like the rest of the hobby.
Still, these are absolutely amazing and I will probably need to get up on this kickstarter anyway because it's such a good idea, and it's really well executed.
Ah Ouzy if you love doing basing, then yeah these may not be for you... though you could certainly build on it too and mod it. These look great, but the key thing here really is the ease of use for a very (VERY) reasonable cost. They are thinking of gamers who want to get their armies on the table ASAP or have very limited free time. This is one of the rare times where you can significantly shortcut something with a potentially as good or better result than the long way around. That is the big plus.
Stay tuned bud, there may be something tempting even for a basing enthusiast like you, something where you are like 'yeah I would never do that by hand on more than 1 mini'
It would be worth having some examples of badly painted minis on the bases for the KS (or to be charitable minis rapidly painted in 3 colour minimum by a total beginner)
as I wonder if having good looking bases with ropey looking minis on top isn't going to make the minis look even worse in comparison?
I tend to think if your minis are a 4 alarm dumpster fire (like my first few were, that goes for most I think!) but you still gotta use em maybe the base can provide a welcome distraction??
There will be pics down the line I believe of minis of various different paint levels on, on their FB page and the KS I would imagine. I will try to repost here if I see anything. I would put mine on there and take some pics but all my mini stuff is in a storage locker in SoCal... If I can manage will try to get out there but have a lot of plates spinning atm!
It would be fun to see some miniatures on the completely wrong genre bases...Orks on the mosaic, Eldar on the Cobblestones and Victorians on the Infinity designs...
Of course, if you are into Doctor Who, I suppose all are subjective.
Responding here and will then update OP, and eventually have to do a graphic too, and by eventually I mean this weekend lol
THE SIZE LIST -
BEVELED
Cavalry 70x25
Circle 25
Circle 28
Circle 32
Circle 40
Circle 50
Circle 55
Circle 60
Circle 80
Circle 100
Oval 60x35
Oval 75x45
Oval 90x52
Oval 105x70
Oval 120x92
Oval 170x105
ROUND LIP
30mm
40mm
50mm
60mm
80mm
100mm
120mm
Ok so here is the deal - Certain odd base types, or less often used like square, hex or notched ARE possible, especially if there is enough demand. Heck printing this on the back of your cell phone is possible. But here is the deal - a big factor in this is what retailers want on their shelves, and they tend to want to broadest demographic possible. It doesn't mean impossible, but this among other less obvious things weigh in on when/if decisions.
That being said, this spread of sizes is pretty damn robust, so hopefully most anyone could find a use for em in some game they enjoy!
Cheers once again Tom! That is indeed a very large assortment, have to say my interest is piqued by the thought of squares as well (and rectangles). I guess the only question left now is expected delivery date which I am sure will be answered when the project goes live.
Would 2x2 cobblestone game tiles, without or with walls, be possible -- and affordable?
Glad you like! Game Tiles would def be possible down the line, and seperate scenery would be obvious. SWM already has a lot of great looking stuff, and though they got screwed by a chinese company with their tablescapes tiles, those were magnificent products. Fortunately, the HD Base line is 100% made in the USA. The tiles would be quite affordable I would imagine too. But that is a ways away as a possibility.
Flinty wrote:
Elbows wrote: Cool looking product. Not my style as I'm not much for black base rims, but I can see these being very popular!
Umm... take the insert out, paint rim to preferred colour, replace insert... or am I missing something?
Remember, these aren't inserts or stickers, they are part of the base, you can't get em off. That being said, you can paint the rim just as you would any other in the exact same way -
ingtaer wrote:Cheers once again Tom! That is indeed a very large assortment, have to say my interest is piqued by the thought of squares as well (and rectangles). I guess the only question left now is expected delivery date which I am sure will be answered when the project goes live.
Yup ship dates would have to go out during the KS, and would obviously be effected by how well things go. TBD but obviously they don't want too long a wait, doesn't benefit anybody, client or producer.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like this could work for games like Infinity and Malifaux. Not sure how I feel about 40k, though. The current textured bases GW provides seem pretty great.
That being said, are you able to provide this on the style of base that Malifaux, Infinity, and Warmahords use?
Mention this on the campaign page. I've been steering away from plastic injection KS (eg. Conan, Marvel United) because of the factory closures in China. Thanks.
The green on the Industrial bases stands out more than I would like. Maybe offer packs that don't have the green water? I mostly play generic fantasy, so whatever the 40K players think.
yup front and center in the KS main page is a big'ol made in the USA info-graphic.
Hey, thanks so much for starting the thread over at Reaper Ced that is awesome of you sir. I consider it a big vote of confidence to see things like that happening so very grateful for it. Cheers!
My gut feeling, without having seen any miniatures on them, is that they’re not for me.
The colours are too overwhelming and would distract from my miniatures. Essentially they’d be imposing an artistic style rather than complimenting the painting style of the mini. I’d have to repaint them, which is kind of rendering their main feature pointless.
The textures are too subtle. It might work for mosaic tiles, but it doesn’t work for industrial cables. I’m guessing that’s a limitation dictated by the printing process.
I’d rather just use a textured base I painted myself to match the mini, but then I’m off the school of thought that the mini, not the base, should be the main focus.
Looks cool. If I have time, I like painting bassses. But that stuff looks like good idea for my deffiance ks and a.d 1666. And definitely for minis what I paint for my friend. Curious about more themes.
> The colours are too overwhelming and would distract from my miniatures.
Granted it's a small sample, but I think that's why cobblestone has been better received than the other bases.
> I’d rather just use a textured base I painted myself
Aha. So you must be familiar with SWM bases. I still haven't gotten to their weathering pigments. I figure one sneeze and I'd be in trouble.
I've been using the SWM pumpkin-themed Field of Screams to show off various miniatures. Here it is with Tiny Furniture's "Dog with Kennel". BTW, TF will have a "Harvest of Corpses" KS in about two weeks.
Yeah, so important to say these are not intended to replace resin and DIY bases, or to say, if you enjoy basing, then stop and use these. Secret Weapon is one of the biggest companies doing resin bases, accessories, basing materials and more. These are intended to be an option and an excellent alternative to those who want their gaming armies done quick, or simply lack time even for single minis. For those who love resin sculpted bases, we still have you covered, everyone gets to win, that is the goal!
Gadzilla666 wrote: Any plans for something along the lines of the bone fields resin bases?
Not sure if it will be in the KS stretches but it is definitely on the radar. If SWM has a resin base for it that works in terms of translating, the goal is ultimately to have an HD Base option. That one in particular would be pretty awesome -
Nostromodamus wrote: Have you considered other scales? Something that works for Titanicus would be cool, if a little niche.
It is entirely possible for a few of the bases to be used at that scale, as time goes, you will see why. But specifically designed? Not impossible, esp if there is demand!
With that said, it is time to reveal another of the launch themes... if you love dark, foreboding spaces, with strangely magical refractive stone and crystalline smooth floors then check out Fractal Black. This theme would be tough to pull off by hand, smooth gradients, stone texture embedded in the fades with recessed OSL lines glowing on the floor.
And to emphasize if any missed and have burned by KS's relying on Chinese plastics before -
The #3 theme (Town Square) pics in the OP are the #1 theme (Under Factory) pics duplicated. I would try to track down the right pics to fix but on a phone
Overall, man, this is quite an innovative idea. I hope they do amazingly well with it!
Edit: Nevermind, found where Tom posted the pics in the thread and fixed it
Yes, Justin approached me last year with a pretty exciting idea, and we made it happen. Been handling the production and design and some other project management aspects to get the QC and testing done. Can definitely say a LOT of work went into these guys!
Super excited to show the other themes, there are quite a few to come, and another big announcement coming soon too with regards to this. Exciting times!
MajorTom11 wrote: This theme would be tough to pull off by hand, smooth gradients, stone texture embedded in the fades with recessed OSL lines glowing on the floor.
Yeah, even someone who likes to do manual basing - if I wanted to do that, I totally couldn't. So beyond being a time saver for people who don't want to do manual basing, some of these are really going to be nice for people who can't achieve an effect they would like to have. I personally would love to do a nice marbled floor with fleur de lis designs, but can I do it really well? Maybe. Can I do it really well 40 times? No, probably not. Almost certainly not. So, if such a design was released (and what are the chances that would happen, amirite?), I would definitely buy them to embiggen my existing tools and supplies.
I mean, I was already sold on this, but pretty excited.
MajorTom11 wrote: This theme would be tough to pull off by hand, smooth gradients, stone texture embedded in the fades with recessed OSL lines glowing on the floor.
Yeah, even someone who likes to do manual basing - if I wanted to do that, I totally couldn't. So beyond being a time saver for people who don't want to do manual basing, some of these are really going to be nice for people who can't achieve an effect they would like to have. I personally would love to do a nice marbled floor with fleur de lis designs, but can I do it really well? Maybe. Can I do it really well 40 times? No, probably not. Almost certainly not. So, if such a design was released (and what are the chances that would happen, amirite?), I would definitely buy them to embiggen my existing tools and supplies.
I mean, I was already sold on this, but pretty excited.
Chances are pretty good bud!
Launch theme #5 is a companion to an existing and popular Secret Weapon resin base line. Solemn and austere veined marble halls, with tilework and a distinctly Fleur-de-Lis motif (I am from Quebec originally after all), I present the Silent Halls Theme!
One more to go before we start getting a look at as of yet completely unrevealed themes! Though, the next one is pretty awesome unto it itself
Looking forward to seeing what else you have up your sleeve! I'd also really like to see a miniature on a base, although I'm sure that's coming
?
Quickie quickie, but here are some models on earlier beta versions of the base. As we can see, the models are solid tabletop but by no means any pro-paint, and if I can say, are not suffering at all from being on high quality images in terms of the base design.
@MajorTom11 - I am so glad that those images look good close-up, because I took them on my Pixel 1.... and I know you're going to have words with me about that
Hey folks, I am here and lurking. I am always lurking, but things at Secret Weapon (and home life) have been so busy for the past two years that I haven't really painted, or had time to breathe.
LET THE MADNESS BEGIN!
Also, thank you all for the questions, feedback, and theme suggestions (okay, demands... it's all good.).
PS: NURGLE! Yes, we have ideas in the queue... you can totally stop filling my inbox with requests
PPS: Remember, followers of Nurgle must be patient for the rot to spread... into... other themes?
MajorTom11 wrote:
As we can see, the models are solid tabletop but by no means any pro-paint, and if I can say, are not suffering at all from being on high quality images in terms of the base design.
I just realized that you said that my paint jobs aren't "pro-paint," and... well... I just have to agree with that
Oh boy! Justin has a few crystal brushes under his belt so no slouch with a brush, but he is also a gamer so like most of us he paints up his armies to play first and not always for display.
Speaking of painting up armies - If you like clinical clean tech, futuristic and precise, well, the Dark Circuit Theme may be up your alley! This one works particularly well with the texture relief, the hex grid and dot grilling stands out incredibly well and is completely in scale with itself, with subtler levels of relief providing the circuit patterns and wear on the metal, and the recessed OSL power conduits are pretty great too. Hope you enjoy!
This brings the opening theme preview to a close, the countdown to the KS has become very real and Wednesday is creeping closer! We are super excited to reveal the stretch themes, and announce a few big surprises that have come to light just recently, but are an incredible vote of confidence. Hope you have all enjoyed the content thus far, and stay tuned!!
Wow, that's the best one so far!!! I will require some of those
(And didn't mean to throw shade Justin's way, was more alluding to your tendency to not settle for less than perfect on anything - which is on awesome display with the base themes here! )
Lol my OCD occasionally comes in handy. And sometimes it makes me buy more miniatures than I can ever paint and leave them sitting in boxes. It's a coin toss!
Yeah this one has a really pleasing mix of relief elements and I love the subtle color on the recessed circuit board elements. When you get it in your hands and you spin it around in the light so much of the relief just leaps at you. Took a while to get the hex grid to print up sharp and tight, and to keep the right luminosity in the colors and metal elements, but it was worth it. This one provided a lot of valuable lessons applied to later siblings!
Star Wars has their own sizes, and we can't justify the tooling cost for bases that only fit a single game. Plus, we'd likely need a license, which is a special challenge for Star Wars... but if there's enough demand, it's something we can explore.
misterjustin wrote: Unfortunately Star Wars has their own sizes, and we can't justify the tooling cost for bases that only fit a single game. Plus, we'd likely need a license, which would be a nightmare because Star Wars
misterjustin wrote: Unfortunately Star Wars has their own sizes, and we can't justify the tooling cost for bases that only fit a single game. Plus, we'd likely need a license, which would be a nightmare because Star Wars
Even the basic trooper bases?
Yeah, the notches and the odd sizing mean it's not planned right now, and as Justin said the license is pretty notoriously hard to get. That being said, we definitely COULD, and if the demand is high enough we would definitely TRY to make it happen. We just can't unilaterally make any promises does that make sense? You aren't the first to mention SW so on our end at least, we would look at it seriously.
It would be a bit of a subjective answer, but there are plenty of themes one could choose for Necrons yes. Depends what you find suits them, but one of them is definitely a choice I have made in the past, I'll put it that way!
The target is noon Pacific (GMT-8) but that may bump slightly if we have any last minute tweaks to make... like the fact that I'm about the re-shoot the intro video.
Are you sure you don't want to wait until tomorrow? That's 5pm EST, so might miss some of the more east coast folks on the critical first day. And yeah, Kickstarter videos are such a pain
RiTides wrote: Are you sure you don't want to wait until tomorrow? That's 5pm EST, so might miss some of the more east coast folks on the critical first day. And yeah, Kickstarter videos are such a pain
Why wait? It will still be up tomorrow. I want it now!
Alright, so we got the video reshoots done, re-edited, re-encoded and uploaded... and then we have an emergent issue with the pledge manager... everything is done, so disappointing! This is the same platform that we and a few other big name mini companies have used before so the issue was not foreseen.
We have a developer working on it but obviously this is a show-stopper for the moment. We will keep everyone updated and as soon as that is resolved we are otherwise good to go!
In the meantime... maybe a few things to life the spirits.
First, we would like to announce the first of our major partnerships... Infinity is officially onboard! And quite literally, as we will be adapting several of their existing board graphics to the HD bases format!
And since you would have seen them today, let's take a look at our first two stretch goal themes - Rolling Fields and Desert Mesa. You could base just about anything on these two...
Will keep you up to date as things progress, honestly such a gut-punch, the one thing not directly produced by us (and thus not fixable by us) is the one thing holding us back at the moment. I'm genuinely sorry for those of you who were excited to get started today, and I promise, once the ball gets rolling we will make it up to you in spades. Thanks so much for your support though guys, really -
Yeah, though it is nice to know you were feverishly refreshing
And yeah, Desert Mesa is one of my personal favorites, those dunes and rocks really look fantastic, and then fine grain sand areas... overall it's just pretty unto itself.
Well thats a pain in the backside for you guys, hope it gets fixed (and properly) soon, will put the credit card back on standby! Liking that desert theme as well, if swampy stuff is going to happen then I am going to be in real trouble.
Rolling Fields looks great, though admittedly most of my generic fantasy miniatures are boardgame plastic or Mantic, so sand and static grass is good enough.
Picking up Cobblestones because it's more work to build a sidewalk, sewer grate, etc.
Hmm... preprinted bases that work as objective markers or other terrain? Preprinted bases you could poster tack or magnetize a miniature on for multiple different terrain (eg. indoor dungeon vs. outdoor grass)???
Thank you all very much for your understanding... and passionate support. Hitting refresh? I LOVE YOU TOO!
Again, thank you all for understanding that when one of the very few components that are completely out of our control go sideways... well....... yeah.
Well damn.....here i was all ready to throw some money at you guys misterjustin. i have bought some of your bases in the past and they were very good. i will keep checking back, hope you get it sorted out soon.
misterjustin wrote: We're just waiting on the final video at this point... and everyone is having an adrenaline crash since we can't do much beyond wait.
I can share that the first two stretch goals are Rolling Fields and Desert Mesa
I'm curious, are there any technical limitations on how big bases you could make with this method?
Honestly guys, not to get mushy or anything but the support shown after this issue has been really great and means a lot. Seen plenty of KS threads go downhill when an issue occurs and you guys have been nothing but supportive. Thank you!
Te Dev is still crunching at it and we are leaning to running an overlap with Adepticon now with the extra days added anyways. Everything else is good to go (except at some point I will need to update EVERYTHING with new dates... guh) but if you guys love those 2 stretch themes that much there is plenty more in that vein to come.
Continue to stay tuned and again, thank you for being such a supportive group here, couldn't ask for more!
I dont know if its my laptop/ phone or my eyesight lol, i cant see what all the fuss is over the rolling fields bases as i think the colors are off on the bright/high contrast side, but i do think its a case of them looking great in person and bad picture imo, no offence.
The Desert Mesa and Silent Halls are outstanding, i just hope the price wont be too high, as i am from the UK i have to think about high priced shipping and custom fees etc added onto my pledge total,
Original Timmy - it could be your screen, or my screen lol! But the grass is not out of bounds green or oversaturated IRL, the same look as you see on a game board like BB or whatnot, maybe even slightly more restrained than that. It isn't neon or 'not real green' I promise!
Necros - be at peace my friend, all good things and all that
If anything, I think the slight delay might help - more time for the hype train to build up steam . And definitely overlapping the near-end of the campaign with AdeptiCon to show off the bases to more folks is a great idea!
Alright boys, all is fixed! We are ready to roll however since we lost a day and a half this week, we are modifying the date and duration - So - Official start, March 9th. Instead of 2 weeks, we are going to make it three weeks and will be running through Adepticon! At Adepticon, VIG coupons will net you a sample base from the Secret Weapon booth while supplies last. We had a lot of people asking us to extend, so this feels like a good move.
In the meantime, to prove we are up and running, why not subscribe for your updates!
This extended time will be used wisely, I am going to see what I can do about getting a few extra themes knocked out, particularly in response to some of the comments in this thread. Will do my best!
Cheers for the update Tom, the extension is a good call. Hopefully we can see some pics of the bases in the wild if they are being given away at Adepticon.
Also... Swamps?
I picked up some Vlad the Impaler and Tutor figures from The Assault Group miniatures. The Fleur-de-Lis bases look at little too loud for me (though I'd like to hear from 40K players what they think), and maybe some indoor marble-ish floors for royalty type of figures could be another design for this KS or a future one.
If any of the SWM staff plays Gloomhaven, maybe a set of summoning circles and other terrain (which needs a flat surface for flying monsters). Even non-miniature gamers can use them to putty-stick summoned monsters (which are a PITA to keep track off because they don't drop loot! (:
BTW, How far can you push this printed process? Can you make terrain or miniatures? Torches you can stick on walls? Pit traps, gas traps, and other ways to kill PC's? Plates of tavern food? Books, maps, paintings, banners, signs, rugs, or other freehand-intense miniatures?
Hand of Glory... Loke Battlemats... Secret Weapon Miniatures... Tiny Furniture... man, my wallet's gonna be beat.
ced1106 wrote:I picked up some Vlad the Impaler and Tutor figures from The Assault Group miniatures. The Fleur-de-Lis bases look at little too loud for me (though I'd like to hear from 40K players what they think), and maybe some indoor marble-ish floors for royalty type of figures could be another design for this KS or a future one.
If any of the SWM staff plays Gloomhaven, maybe a set of summoning circles and other terrain (which needs a flat surface for flying monsters). Even non-miniature gamers can use them to putty-stick summoned monsters (which are a PITA to keep track off because they don't drop loot! (:
BTW, How far can you push this printed process? Can you make terrain or miniatures? Torches you can stick on walls? Pit traps, gas traps, and other ways to kill PC's? Plates of tavern food? Books, maps, paintings, banners, signs, rugs, or other freehand-intense miniatures?
Hand of Glory... Loke Battlemats... Secret Weapon Miniatures... Tiny Furniture... man, my wallet's gonna be beat.
Plain'ish marble floors? You'll be ok
This particular kind of 3D printing is not suitable for building up terrain or miniatures, it isn't the same as shapeways type printing for example. The trade-off for the full 3d object ability is that you get super accurate and detailed, full color printing which is just not possible with full object 3D printing. We can build up texture, but the tech doesn't work well for more than that. This is why the bases and other flat natured things like mats and tiles etc are the ideal subject for this tech.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Summoning circles and other arcane scribblings are a great shout
a simple 2 colour tile set like my attempt below would also be useful, whatever colours were chosen
Agreed on all fronts, arcane/runic/summoning circle type things and a small scale tile are definitely possibilities in future. We are looking into it -
WUWU wrote: One thing I'd be interested in is a more modern urban streets theme, with traffic lines, litter, sidewalk sections etc
"Modern streets" is a theme that I can't seem to figure out how to do very well myself. A lot of other stuff I can manage or find options for, but for some reason the best I can figure out for making a "modern street" base is to paint it black (or very dark grey) and drybrush some traffic lines. Which doesn't read that well and just looks kind of boring. So yeah, I agree with WUWU, this is can be a difficult theme for hobbyists and is under-represented from hobby suppliers, making it an excellent candidate. Especially with the increase in Superhero themed miniature games these days.
WUWU wrote: One thing I'd be interested in is a more modern urban streets theme, with traffic lines, litter, sidewalk sections etc
"Modern streets" is a theme that I can't seem to figure out how to do very well myself. A lot of other stuff I can manage or find options for, but for some reason the best I can figure out for making a "modern street" base is to paint it black (or very dark grey) and drybrush some traffic lines. Which doesn't read that well and just looks kind of boring. So yeah, I agree with WUWU, this is can be a difficult theme for hobbyists and is under-represented from hobby suppliers, making it an excellent candidate. Especially with the increase in Superhero themed miniature games these days.
Soul Samurai wrote:
WUWU wrote: One thing I'd be interested in is a more modern urban streets theme, with traffic lines, litter, sidewalk sections etc
"Modern streets" is a theme that I can't seem to figure out how to do very well myself. A lot of other stuff I can manage or find options for, but for some reason the best I can figure out for making a "modern street" base is to paint it black (or very dark grey) and drybrush some traffic lines. Which doesn't read that well and just looks kind of boring. So yeah, I agree with WUWU, this is can be a difficult theme for hobbyists and is under-represented from hobby suppliers, making it an excellent candidate. Especially with the increase in Superhero themed miniature games these days.
Secret Weapon does 2 different versions of urban streets bases in their normal resin line so its not outside the realm of possibility that its a stretch goal here.
MajorTom11 wrote: Alright boys, all is fixed! We are ready to roll however since we lost a day and a half this week, we are modifying the date and duration - So - Official start, March 9th. Instead of 2 weeks, we are going to make it three weeks and will be running through Adepticon! At Adepticon, VIG coupons will net you a sample base from the Secret Weapon booth while supplies last. We had a lot of people asking us to extend, so this feels like a good move.
In the meantime, to prove we are up and running, why not subscribe for your updates!
This extended time will be used wisely, I am going to see what I can do about getting a few extra themes knocked out, particularly in response to some of the comments in this thread. Will do my best!
The new timing is great! Went ahead and signed up for the launch notification at the link, too
Did we find out if there were early birds? No worries if not, just curious
These aren't for me, too flat and bold. Look like wallpaper cutouts. Which is odd since I love gaming mats and they should look right at home on gaming mats. Speaking of gaming mats - howabout you partner up with someone doing gaming mats to use cutouts of their graphics?
With the size of these, I think custom designing the graphics to fit each base will look a lot more attractive.
I'm torn on theme - I think the natural-type ones (cobblestones and sand especially) benefit the most from the method, but the sci-fi ones are harder to pull off myself. I'm sure I will get to change my mind many times on this for the next month
Did we see any info on delivery timeline / estimates yet? With the production process, it seems like something that you might be hard capped at a certain level per month. Looking forward to the 'deets
SpyderG6 wrote: Secret Weapon does 2 different versions of urban streets bases in their normal resin line so its not outside the realm of possibility that its a stretch goal here.
I hadn't seen those before. Interesting, if not exactly the effect I was after. I think that the paint is what really sells them as "modern streets", meaning that they are excellent candidates for this colour-print treatment. So I think you're right, they could be in the works already.
The bases look amazing. I am worried that shipping costs and customs might make them too expensive to get, though... any idea about an EU distribution deal?
Yes 100% - things are in flux with Brexit and the possible impacts of Corona on shipping costs, but we have tracks open to distribution and will be extremely transparent about everything.
Rest assured, by every account so far, the cost for these guys will be less than people are imagining!
I could imagine quite a few things... harlequins, renaissance types, courtesans, rogue trader'ish vibe... Even had some people talking about Slaanesh and Tzeentch types in other places. I think models with large blocks of cloth, and models with high contrast themes based around black would do particularly well (personal opinion obviously). It is an 'out there' theme in terms of it being quite different than what you usually see, but in this case, that would be the point. It certainly makes for a striking squad or army, for similar reasons - being off the beaten path
One thing to remember with shipping is that these are VERY LIGHT -- effectively the weight of a blank plastic base. We're working to get the best USPS and UPS rates for everyone, but as MajorTom11 said our situation in the EU is in flux as our distribution points are in Nottingham, England, which doesn't do us as much good as it used to.
Actual shipping weights will be applied to each product, and only actual shipping costs will be charged -- there will be no handling fee.
A vote of confidence from CMON and Corvus Belli is such a great thing for us to have, not only for access to their themes but also to tell you guys this is indeed a solid product as promised.
In a way, earlier pledges are slotted for earlier delivery. There will be shipping waves so the earlier you get on, the better. Price wise, we are giving everyone an amazing price, no exceptions, we want it to be a no-brainer
So you pledge $1 and then increase it based on the stuff you want? I was expecting something more like a bundled pack of bases of all different sizes, the separate stuff as add-ons. I think that would have been easier, some folks might just pledge the $1 and forget. I'm in for the town square but will change to urban streets if they get unlocked
H wrote: I am just missing it, or is the only way to see the pricing to back the project?
No I'm missing it too, I guess it may be behind the pledge calculator link but I think it would be better to make your prices clear on the main page itself.
Also do you have any international shipping hubs or is everything being sent from USA?
This set-up is a little confusing. So, you must pledge at least $1 to get in, and then you go to the PM, where you pick what you actually want (which I like, btw).
If your stuff adds up to $100, do you then pledge $1, or pledge $100? I assume the latter but this was not super clear.
Does it even matter if you only pledge $1, if you can then add more stuff later when the campaign ends? It looks like you can up however much you want up to 30 days after it ends. If that's the case, it sort of disincentives people from pledging at all past $1 right now - you're going to want to see all the bases unlocked, but it's going to be very hard to unlock additional bases if people are only pledging $1.
(Also, edit: nm, this question is answered already, just saw it)
Meh, this stuff is more expensive than I thought it would be. I was hoping they would be cheaper than 1.00 per for the 32's but it comes out to 1.33 per.
We're working on a graphic now to show the size/quantity/price information. Apologies for not including it on launch, and thank you for your patience.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necros wrote: So you pledge $1 and then increase it based on the stuff you want? I was expecting something more like a bundled pack of bases of all different sizes, the separate stuff as add-ons. I think that would have been easier, some folks might just pledge the $1 and forget. I'm in for the town square but will change to urban streets if they get unlocked
We're adding a graphic now to show all size/quantity/price info on the main page -- but I didn't want to offer bundles because it ties people into things they DON'T want, which is one of my chief frustrations with Kickstarter campaigns. This way you pledge for the sizes/themes/quantities you want, and bring that number back. You get EXACTLY what you want -- more or less
They seem to be doing the pledgemanager like reaper bones does running concurrently with the kickstarter to work out your pledge and shipping with your details built in
I can't wait for $25K to unlock the Infinity designs, wish it was earlier than that because the way the pledging is set up I'm not going to really contribute much until they do unlock, and only AFTER they've been unlocked will my pledge actually contribute towards unlocking somehting else :/
I guess I can pledge for stuff I don't want and change it when it does unlock, but it still feels like a weird setup. Will be great once it does hit though, and I can get exactly what I want in the exact amounts I want them.
I fully own leaving these important graphics off of the launch list. They're mentioned in the rewards, but... well, they're here now. Better pricing than resin bases, and ready to go!
@Flinty -- those graphics are a late addition which I totally forgot to put on the pre-launch checklist. They're mentioned in the rewards, but... 100% my derp.
Yeah, we basically want you to choose only what you want, not chuck in add-in's you don't necessarily want or need - The system is based on Reaper's pledge manager, so if you went in on Bones, then you know what to expect.
I am updating the info on the KS, planning to re-message along these lines
How Pledge and get your total:
Pledge 1$ in the Kickstarter for access to the Pledge Manager
In the Pledge Manager, choose what you want and create your own bundle!
Return to update your KS pledge total with the same amount from the Pledge Manager WITHOUT the shipping to unlock more stretch goals!
It makes sense when you read it, and I do also LOVE the a-la-carte approach as well, but it's not blazingly obvious and I think because it's not utterly completely obvious that it works against the campaign.
I've seen other campaigns that primarily use pledgemanagers have pledges with set amounts that directly become credit in the PM. If it's an option with how your PM is set up then having pledge levels available for say $20, $50, $100, $150 etc that is a bit more intuitive for people, especially coupled with the updated generic pricing graphic now on the main page. Having the generic levels of credit lets people pledge now knowing they can finalize exactly what they want later
This is exactly the thing I always wanted and the pricing looks great. I'll drop $200-$300 easily on this.
Having said that, this is the most confusing kickstarter I've seen since my only incentive is to pledge $1 to get access to the pledge manager. I want designs that are in stretch goals but if they aren't made available, then I don't want to risk my funds if they are not unlocked.
If 2000 people pledge just $1 then we are not unlocking anything. There probably should be no stretch goals if this is being used as just a pre-ordering system. If this is going to be a la carte, just show us the products available to purchase so I can make an informed decision. Otherwise I'll just pledge $1 and see what's available later.
While I think this approach ultimately makes sense, I suspect it's going to hurt the running Kickstarter total, since some people (read: my lazy ass) are going to just pledge $1 and then figure out their final order at the last possible minute before the pledge manager closes, which will presumably after the campaign ends.
No big deal, but I wouldn't put those stretch goals at too high a number.
Interesting. You've got someone I trust boldly proclaiming how great the product is, but it is a bit more expensive than I anticipated.
But it's too much hassle to track the progress. I've pledged, but I'll get to it properly once your themes are all unlocked and I can have a good look-see.
Actually, these are very affordable compared to others (looking at you, Bandua). Especially considering these are US made and therefore no shipping expense from Spain. In for about 90 bases currently.
This is so awesome, but as others have said, are you sure you want just the $1 pledge level?
What about a $100 pledge level that nets you $110 in credit in the pledge manager, or the like? You don't have to specify, it can just give credit, but you need pledge levels!! Half the people don't know how to work Kickstarter and edit their pledge lol.
I'd actually consider canceling and relaunching the campaign with this, with the early birds at the $100 level (and $1 unlimited). This should have wayyyyyy more than $6k right now, and it's solely due to this!
Heck, even I only went in for $1 atm pending getting to read all the details of what I want tomorrow. You want the impulse backer to be $100, not $1, and they'll sort out the details later! And to be completely honest, that's what us customers want, too
(Also, the third highest Kickstarter EVER cancelled and relaunched shortly after and then broke all records, there's no shame or issue in doing so at all)
I get your point, trust me I do, but SWM have a REALLY strong aversion to making this anything but a completely custom selection, they don't want people locked in for anything they don't want.
That being said, I think part of the issue with the reasoning above is, you don't have to get all nitty gritty. You don't even need to go into the pledge manager really, if you know you need 60 30mm bases, ball park it with the pricing chart graphic and just enter that into your KS total! Doesn't need to be tough.
Ultimately you don't go through the 'checkout' until the end of the KS anyhow, so really, there is no harm to customer at all bidding on the bases they need and seeing what other themes are available at the end before finalizing.
In this case it makes things trickier for SWM, but really, it's in service of you guys! Still worth it to put in a ballpark pledge though, to get those extras unlocked so sitting at a buck doesn't do you much good if you know you are in for more!
Not sure about what to do with pledging myself, expect to be in the middle of moving countries when this is due to deliver so might have to see if I can piggy back off of someone elses pledge so that I don't forget to change address (again...) but need to throw money at it so the desert bases unlock.
I got you, Tom! I just think if they look at the average amount pledged per backer (currently $21) they'll see it's way too low, and that's only due to the format.
As the creator, they can also look at individual pledges - my feeling is they probably have some whales accompanied by several hundred $1 pledges, where instead we should all be pledging for $50, $100 or $200 worth of credit and sorting the rest out afterwards! That's what people normally do anyway lol...
Maybe I missed it, but have there been any examples of, say, the grassy field or desert or any other "natural" design with some additional grass tufts or rock or anything added? It would be hard for me to just leave these as-is. I really like a 3-dimensional aspect to my bases for everything except basic infantry/chaff.
No examples yet, but it should be fine to add grass tufts and flock. With the 3D layered details shown it looks like they should take really well to washes and weathering pigments too. My plan is to airbrush some nuln oil into the center to darken it like the mini was casting a shadow, which you could do to a few dozen of these bases in only a few minutes.
I know secret weapon makes weathering pigments, would be nice to see an example of them especially on the tile pattern bases
There are actually a few examples of pics and him applying washes and tufts to cobblestone on the SWM FB page. Yeah the washes and weathering run into the seams perfectly like you would expect. You can also drybrush, glue on more scatter just as you would any other.
We will be sure to make a vid ASAP, and also I am desperately trying to find my models in my storage locker to I can get some more pics on bases.
People are starting to update their 1$ pledges with ballpark figures, if you are in, but still at a buck, just put in 60-100 dollars for now, you are not locked in to anything til the end and that represents a conservative average pledge. I know it would have been easier to just force everyone to do it, but SWM REALLY doesn't want to force anyone to spend a cent more than they want to. That's why they don't want higher minimums, BUT, if you intend to buy 50 bases, ballpark the amount with the price lists and put that in to unlock the themes!
First unlock is open, things are picking up kinda like Bones 3 and 4, people just need to get the feel of the system hopefully!
I finally found my models in the very back of my storage locker (been there since I moved from Canada), and of course they were in the f&%^^$%^ back bottom corner of a 30 foot locker. So that sucked.
What doesn't suck is I can finally take some shots of models on the bases for you guys, and perhaps do a few paint and weather demo's too for those who want to see it -
Remember, if you backed already, update your pledge to an amount that reflects your intention! If you need 50 bases, put in the $ for 50 bases! If you aren't sure, 80-100 bucks is a good place to sit for most box games and small armies.
Very nice, really does improve the "feel" of the bases if you get me.
Quick Q, does the pledge manager thingy need to be gone through straight away? Reading on the kickstarter that people have been going through it but I just did the multiplication and pledged accordingly.
ingtaer wrote: Very nice, really does improve the "feel" of the bases if you get me.
Totally, when you see them casting shadows and see the relief of the mini largely matches the relief on the base, you start to pick out the height from the print easier in pics. In real life it's so obvious, when you move around it you see it so easily.
ingtaer wrote: Quick Q, does the pledge manager thingy need to be gone through straight away? Reading on the kickstarter that people have been going through it but I just did the multiplication and pledged accordingly.
YES. 100% yes, and everyone who is sitting on their 1$ pledge should do this. You only need to calculate at the end, when you need to finalize based on all the choices of the options available. For now, just ballpark and that will be so helpful. Bit of a double edged sword, we don't want to force people into bundles they don't want, but at the same time with such a low minimum a lot of people are backing and intend to fill in later. But if you need 50 bases, put in the cost of 50 bases. Or put in 75-100 bucks and adjust later, but that is the range of covering your typical boxed game these days, or a small-mid sized army in most games.
I think perhaps the problem is one of optics - the casual KS backer especially may find it confusing when you're asking them to pledge $1, then use the pledge manager to find out the total for what they want, THEN come back and update their pledge for the total to be counted. That last bit is critical for you but your page doesn't emphasize it enough.
A better solution might be to tell people to PLEDGE for what they want (in real big text, right next to your pricing graphic) and then explain that they can change things around or choose exactly what they want to get AFTERWARD using the pledge manager. It is in effect the same thing, but puts the emphasis on their KS pledge rather than on the manager.
Anyway, my two cents. Hope this does really well for you guys - money is really tight ATM so I can't guarantee that I'm in, but I'm keeping my eye on this!
Thanks for the pics, Tom!!! Love quite a few of these - the cobblestones look even more convincing with a miniature, and some of the "out there" scifi ones look amazing and really take advantage of the medium - they're things you'd never see on a large number of bases due to how tricky they'd be to pull off by hand.
Thanks guys! Running around like a chicken without a head but more cool content to come - and a few more themes to boot -
In the meantime, thanks very much for the continued support, and we are working on sorting out the pledging psychology issue, it is a weird thing to know we are really at the 40-50k level but that the set-up is allowing a lower number to show. Even odder that at the end, it will be there. We know you guys deserve to see and unlock a bunch of stretches and the set-up is preventing, so ch-ch-changes are being considered - Stay tuned, and if you pledged, update your pledge with a ballpark estimate of what you want, or, just put in that 75-$100 buck amount that is the likely sweet spot for most!
These stretch goals need to change to "daily unlocks" otherwise we will not unlock them. Even other companies like CMON did the same with slow kickstarters like Trudvang.
I'm currently at $1 and will not up my pledge until I know for certain that Infinity Bases are available. No reason for me to pledge $300 when the bases I want might not be unlocked when the campaign ends and the stretch goal remains locked. Then I'm stuck with having to pick from bases I did not want.
We can't calculate how much to pledge, if we don't know what's truly available to buy.
If we don't have daily unlocks, then this is exactly why people won't up their pledge above $1. We don't even know what's really available for ordering.
Desert and Infinity bases are being promote....and they aren't even available to purchase if the campaign ended right now.
Stretch goals should be for added bonuses, not for items that people want to pledge for but might not actually have the chance to purchase.
Equally I only want the BSF style bases and not interested in any of the unlocks, so literally no reason to pledge more than a dollar and sort it out in the pledge manager later. Maybe when there's a better idea on how UK shipping will work.
I mean, I know I could just up it, then reduce it down again the day before the campaign finishes. But then, we all could. People that really want the unlocks could just pledge $5K and remove it again after they're unlocked.
It's a weird situation as there's no incentive for those that only want the original bases to pledge more than $1, and it's weird for those that want the unlock ones to pledge more than $1 as they might end up not being able to get them. Only people that want bases from both sections have a real reason to pledge more.
deano2099 wrote: Equally I only want the BSF style bases and not interested in any of the unlocks, so literally no reason to pledge more than a dollar and sort it out in the pledge manager later. Maybe when there's a better idea on how UK shipping will work.
I get what you are saying but don't actually understand it, I know pretty much how many bases I want and so just pledged accordingly. It makes as much sense to do so now as to do so later so why not just do it now? If things that I want don't become available then I will drop my pledge down accordingly.
Hopefully SWM come up with something that makes people want to pledge during the Kickstarter rather than later and hopefully they do so soon as its a long way to the Infinity bases without it happening.
This is an interesting conundrum. You guys have architected this the kickstarter in a way that maximizes benefits to the customer (in that they only pay for what they want) but also disincentives them for kicking in more (which hurts SWM), which decreases chances of further unlocks (which hurts the customers and SWM). The road to hell, and all that.
I think you have 3 options here:
A: Radically adjust the unlocks for substantially lower dollar amounts
B.) Change the unlocks to number of pledges instead of dollar amounts.
C.) Unlock them based not upon actual pledged amounts, but on projected amounts - ie, if you know the average pledge SHOULD be X, then unlock them when you have a number of backers times X expected dollars to reach Y unlock. Of course, depending on production strategy, this could backfire dangerously if your projections are off dramatically in either direction. But if the art is already done and you're only paying to produce what actually gets ordered, that can work out well.
Yep, this is clear, and above comments are actually quite helpful -
What really resonated with me in terms of articulating things was the mention that these are not really stretches, but the core options locked behind the barrier. We know there is actually a LOT of support for the product, but the Bones style KS system without a big core buy-in is actually blocking people from getting the options they want to buy. There was a lot of faith in the bones system because people involved with those are involved here, but ultimately, a more traditional KS structure to opt in is clearly valuable to a good chunk of buyers. So, I know they are considering their options, and it really is to just give you guys the options you deserve based on what the backing already would ultimately be.
They are on this and I am pretty damn confident people will be happy about the changes, so bear with us! The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it happened, right?
The openness is super appreciated, Tom!! You guys have been amazing so far . My only concern is just that the project brings in what it deserves to. Looking forward to developments!
Thanks man, I am not an official representative but I truly believe in transparency here. We've got a good product here that has a system to sell it that isn't working the way we though, to the benefit of no one, not SWM, not the backers. So something has to give because we are actually very grateful for the support.... I mean, we passed two stretches despite half the people sitting at a buck lol! Gotta be able to do something with that!
I think one of the biggest elephants in the room is actually part and parcel to the reason for this KS: people are looking for a quick answer.
How many bases for a Blackstone Fortress core set? I own a copy, and have no idea. But that is a valuable pledge level for one of your core designs.
How many bases for a Sisters squad? Another pledge level/add on. And so on.
I pledged for a bunch of bases once I finally got into the PM, but that data was nowhere on the KS originally...and cost backers. Have they come back and pledged? No idea.
I have no issue with this system of pledging, but with a barrier to entry of $1...well...lots of people are either waiting for their pattern to unlock, or will buy during the actual pledge manager.
I believe you have a very valuable product here, at least for me, and I hope with more exposure we can see the numbers rise.
deano2099 wrote: Equally I only want the BSF style bases and not interested in any of the unlocks, so literally no reason to pledge more than a dollar and sort it out in the pledge manager later. Maybe when there's a better idea on how UK shipping will work.
I get what you are saying but don't actually understand it, I know pretty much how many bases I want and so just pledged accordingly. It makes as much sense to do so now as to do so later so why not just do it now?
My usual approach is to want to pay for things as close to when I'll get them as possible. Something might happen and I might not want them in a few months when the Pledge Manager deadline happens. Might want to spend the money on something else instead. The Brexit result may be that they set up distribution from Germany instead of the UK and so it gets more expensive for those in the UK making it not worthwhile. Plenty of reasons to not want more than $1 in the system now. Zero reasons to actually do so.
One option would be to offer a 10% discount for pledges during the campaign, by taking everyone's pledge and adding 10% to the value when it goes into the PM. Don't know if that's financially viable though (since they'll be taking a hit on KS fees anyway, this system is actually really good for them, as they'll get more money from those putting the money in during the PM - it's only the artificial stretch goals causing an issue.)
Worst case, though, is that SWM makes the bases that have been unlocked, then either runs another KS for the other bases, or releases them through retail. Certainly this would be the situation if SWM partners with other companies in the future, or the printing process improves and lets SWM create even more designs.
My issue is.. I got an army or warband I want to use these with.. but need to wait, and wait.. until kickstarter ends and delivers
The "must play with models NOW" desire is strong, so my choices are to avoid that army/warband for XX months, or base them now and have to rebase later once these get to me
I LOVE the "Sisters" bases, but, .. time,. and Hobby ADHD ..
Hey guys, things are moving and shaking, just wanted to say, you have been heard and changes will be taking place that should give a great deal towards the issues raised. It's a weird situation, the product is being received very well both by customers and industry partners, but the way the KS was formatted is hurting everyone involved to no real benefit. Things will be done, and though obviously an improved system will help SWM, it will most certainly benefit you guys too. Win-win is the goal! Hold tight but rest assured they are on it -
I'm thinking that in order to restructure it in the way that will address the issues and give everyone what they want, it would have to be the more drastic option. I also think that when action is taken it will be extremely good for everybody, esp the customer! I may actually run it by everyone here for feedback if ok'd, you guys have been great. Can never please everyone, but it should come close!
Thank you all for the feedback - and for the team behind the scenes keeping up while I was at GAMA. I came back early, and we're putting our heads together to ensure that our next update will provide you with all of the best options. Your feedback has been invaluable.
As you guys know we need to adjust the KS - On the positive, we have a good amount of backers and we know MANY of them are waiting to up their pledges. We have had really positive response to the product itself, and lots of interest on the customer and retail side.
BUT - we have a good amount of backers who are opting to wait on their 1$ pledge. This is not their fault, it was ours. As someone eloquently put it earlier in this thread, we locked our core offering behind stretch goals. There is no single item that is core. ALL the options are core. And we made it so that people had to wait around to buy what they already knew they wanted.
That's a big boo boo, but it was made with the best of intentions. The system was set up so that no one was forced into an amount, that they only added what they wanted and nothing more. The thought was it was better for the customer, but really it is obvious people want jump-in points at set amounts like a usual KS.
So, what are we gonna do?
We are going to close and relaunch next week. That sucks and it's embarrassing. But ultimately everything else that happens is great for EVERYONE.
1.) ALL themes will be shown and unlocked right off the bat. If you want urban streets, you just go get it, no hoops or delays to choose what you want.
2.) There will be pledge levels, 50(+), 100(+) and 200(+). The 100 dollar + level will include a set of 3 weathering pigments (really really good ones too - Burning Sands, Dark Earth, and Rust Orange), and the 200+ level will be the pigment set, and a set of 3 genuinely awesome paints that have not left my table since got them, Secret Weapon's Rubber Highlight, Rubber and Tire Black. Their most popular paints, and seriously, check my blog, mainstays on my table. At the end at checkout, you use the calculator, make whatever specific choices you want and you get your total from there for final purchase. The calculator is always available, but you don't have to fiddle in between.
3.) Each pledge will have 3 zone options
1.) Americas, Europe (NOT UK)
2.) AU, NZ, Asia, Pacific
3.) United Kingdom (NOT Europe)
4.) any extra themes that are developed during the course of the KS will be added immediately, no stretch, we just give you the option immediately.
So that is the plan, we get some bonuses for $ thresholds, and you see it ALL right away, and I can say, there will be 18 themes minimum, even more counting the licensed stuff.
No fuss no muss is the goal, just good product and plenty of choice. The calculator is available any time you want it, but you only need it at checkout. What do you think?
Awesome! Yes, it would be better for us for sure, but honestly, you guys shouldn't have had to wait to see all the things you could choose from. I am psyched to show the other themes, and the Infinity prototypes, which are... well you'll see but SUPREHOT seems like a potential understatement -
Thank you!
Love to hear more thoughts if there are any before pulling the trigger on this. Will give it a little bit longer here though -
That sounds great! I'm excited . And like I mentioned earlier, one of the highest funded campaigns ever did a very similar relaunch. I will certainly be in!!
Many thanks to all of you that provided us with such valuable feedback during the initial campaign. I cannot truly express the depth of my gratitude for your enthusiasm and support through all of this.
The reboot is going to be amazing, entirely thanks to you.
Many thanks to MajorTom11 for..... too much to account for, frankly.
Fine choices sir... Flight Deck was a particular beast, took a lot of tweaking back and forth and there are way too many tiny details... but the OSL on the lights looks pretty sharp at this point. To have someone want 7 choices, quite a compliment man thank you very much for the encouragement!
At $50 offer a bottle of Stone wash. That's the best stuff in the world for cranking out assembly-line painting underground dungeon tiles. Nice, dark, wet look.
Glad to hear that you are making the change. Tom, no it isnt embarrasing, embarrasing would have been just carrying on as before when it wasnt working as well as it could.
Loving the idea of the shoreline and hope to see more of it soon, question is though do I really need four different themes? (Yep, of course I do!)
While reading all the reasoning here I get it and understand. But I would say I back a lot of stuff on KS and as a general rule, a company cancelling a project that has already reached its funding goal is a huge red flag. It means they didn’t set a realistic goal and makes you wonder what other ways they may be lying to you.
Again, that isn’t the case here, but I only know that from following along with this thread - it’s a really weird set of circumstances. For others, it is going to put them off. If the goal was realistic I would just deliver what’s in the campaign then look at a new campaign down the line if necessary for the other themes (I assume the new campaign will have a higher goal to support everything being unlocked from day one).
I was in for 50$. And definitely I will return. Kind of funy how people wants freebies, fake sg and are to lazy to count how many bases they need for particular game. But anyway top stuff, I have your corpse fields and skull resin basses and Im loved them. I m curious how winter theme will be looks in that method. And maybe if you have some time. Could you slap some black wash on them. And on some blue transparent paints. To see how easy will be to work with them
Mc Devil wrote: I was in for 50$. And definitely I will return. Kind of funy how people wants freebies, fake sg and are to lazy to count how many bases they need for particular game.
Having backed many boardgames the desire for a bundle/'official' pledge level no longer surprises me, even when there is only the main game and an expansion and no extra discount is offered far too many people seem incapable of adding up the costs and adjusting their pledges accordingly
True, I shall. Wait and see assuming there are no UK backers here.
Either way. Those latest reveals did it for me.
If the price is good, I will have to figure out which army needs these and what bases to go for..
Again, you guys are awesome, I just wanted to point it out again .
I wanted to take a second to address this post below -
deano2099 wrote: While reading all the reasoning here I get it and understand. But I would say I back a lot of stuff on KS and as a general rule, a company cancelling a project that has already reached its funding goal is a huge red flag. It means they didn’t set a realistic goal and makes you wonder what other ways they may be lying to you.
Again, that isn’t the case here, but I only know that from following along with this thread - it’s a really weird set of circumstances. For others, it is going to put them off. If the goal was realistic I would just deliver what’s in the campaign then look at a new campaign down the line if necessary for the other themes (I assume the new campaign will have a higher goal to support everything being unlocked from day one).
Deano, I cannot blame you at all for being suspicious. I know a few are ok with it and happy that things are getting fixed, but at the same time, there is no escaping the fact that mistakes were made and the model did not account for what now seems an obvious behavior. The simplest way to explain it is this - People said 'We want to buy!', and we said 'We want to sell!'... it was the the way to make the connection that failed. And though it was funded, and we know may people in the 1$ and wait camp would have ended up filling orders, the main problem was that we would be fulfilling a KS that didn't show all we had to offer, and what we knew many people were waiting for. So doing as you said would have just been a needless loss for all involved, as I think it is safe to say, absolutely every single person involved would rather choose from all the themes they could have in the end. So that is the direct answer as to why we didn't just go through with the funded project as it was, and I hope it makes good sense.
The good news is, that can be fixed, the bad news is, they had to reboot to do it. That being said, Secret Weapon Miniatures has been around 10 years, and has a pretty good track record. So there is an existing infrastructure, relationships and distribution channels in place, esp from partners like Reaper and others. The other thing I would say should help ease any anxiety is Corvus B and CMON being onboard as partners, these are also established, successful companies who have seen the product and know SWM and believe we have a truly viable, long term product here.
Ultimately though, you have reasons to be (very politely!) skeptical, some directly due to us, some due to examples of other similar looking stumbles. What we can do is keep being transparent, keep pumping out things that interest you and do our damn best to show, not say, that we have a handle on things. Til then I think that although we have been lucky enough to have a lot of support for this move, your post does represent a number of people's thoughts and a very genuine thanks for giving me the opportunity to answer.
If I may offer another suggestion. It would probably be worthwhile to put together some suggested pledges as well. Ie. The blackstone fortress, the red veil/wildfire/coldfront base and expanded boxes, etc. because it seems like some of the themes are tailor made for such a use. Many are not, but it gives a starting point for some that would be interested in purchasing.
Deano, I cannot blame you at all for being suspicious. I know a few are ok with it and happy that things are getting fixed, but at the same time, there is no escaping the fact that mistakes were made and the model did not account for what now seems an obvious behavior.
Just to be clear, I'm not personally suspicious of you at all - but that's only because of reading and following along on here and seeing you sort of recognize the issues in real time and attempt to fix. But had I just seen the project on KS and decided to give it a go, then have it cancelled after it reached the funding goal, then there's no way I would rejoin - and I've certainly taken that approach with projects before.
My only worry is that the new campaign won't fund at all, but my fingers are crossed for you!
Thank you, hopefully, they have explained the decision well enough for most. So far it seems most are excited by the change and getting all the bases, but yeah time will tell if this was a really smart move or a damaging one.
In the meantime, we will continue to do our best and communicate!
Re - I will see about getting some shoreline previews up for you guys! May take a bit, I have a lot to do before relaunching mid-week hopefully -
Luckily most wargamers are pretty plugged in, so I think they'll be aware of the reasons. Also, with the relaunch having everything unlocked it is much better for backers . I'll be in for $100 at least!
And I would loooove to see more Shoreline previews
Can I make a request / suggestion for the new launch, that you include the VAT in the advertised price.
For anyone not aware, there was a price list for the different base sizes on the front page of the KS, however when you went into the pledge manager to calculate what you wanted, it added VAT onto the cost. One of the colleagues did confirm that the advertised prices were minus VAT.
I've never heard of a KS that gives you a price without VAT. It comes across to me as really disingenuous, so much so that I was actually going to cancel my pledge.
I haven't seen any other comments around this issue, so it may well just be myself that has a problem with it, but I don't believe it will hurt you to have transparency on your prices.
chucklehead wrote: Can I make a request / suggestion for the new launch, that you include the VAT in the advertised price.
For anyone not aware, there was a price list for the different base sizes on the front page of the KS, however when you went into the pledge manager to calculate what you wanted, it added VAT onto the cost. One of the colleagues did confirm that the advertised prices were minus VAT.
I've never heard of a KS that gives you a price without VAT. It comes across to me as really disingenuous, so much so that I was actually going to cancel my pledge.
I haven't seen any other comments around this issue, so it may well just be myself that has a problem with it, but I don't believe it will hurt you to have transparency on your prices.
Thanks for reading!
Why would it be disingenuous for a foreign-based Kickstarter to not include your local taxes? I'm in Canada - if KS prices don't include GST, that's on me, not the Kickstarter.
Thanks wasteland (ahhh GST, I don't miss you old friend)
Chucklehead, yeah I have to agree, not sure where your expectation that VAT would be incorporated into the base price came from, but in my experience when you shop, taxes are always applied after the fact on shipped goods, at checkout, just like they do here. I am pretty sure this is by far the most common and best option, as the alternative would be creating literally hundreds of price lists for each country's unique taxes and fees... Hope that makes sense!
The KS has been re-submitted for approval, we are moving but still listening as best we can while they re-deploy!
chucklehead wrote: Can I make a request / suggestion for the new launch, that you include the VAT in the advertised price.
For anyone not aware, there was a price list for the different base sizes on the front page of the KS, however when you went into the pledge manager to calculate what you wanted, it added VAT onto the cost. One of the colleagues did confirm that the advertised prices were minus VAT.
I've never heard of a KS that gives you a price without VAT. It comes across to me as really disingenuous, so much so that I was actually going to cancel my pledge.
I haven't seen any other comments around this issue, so it may well just be myself that has a problem with it, but I don't believe it will hurt you to have transparency on your prices.
Thanks for reading!
While I get what are you saying, the fact is most US Kickstarters incorporate VAT in the shipping price, hence the huge differences in shipping costs for EU versus the US. It's to cover the VAT (which has to be paid on the goods when they enter the EU at the rate of the country they enter in).
That's actually more disingenuous that listing the VAT and shipping separately. But you're right in that it's not how most KS projects do it.
I think as long as it's clear, and the backer can decide based on good information, either way works... but the Vast majority do not include it. As Tom said, in that case you'd need many different offerings for individual countries / regions, instead of just adding it on when the shipping region is entered.
MajorTom11 wrote: Thanks wasteland (ahhh GST, I don't miss you old friend)
Chucklehead, yeah I have to agree, not sure where your expectation that VAT would be incorporated into the base price came from, but in my experience when you shop, taxes are always applied after the fact on shipped goods, at checkout, just like they do here. I am pretty sure this is by far the most common and best option, as the alternative would be creating literally hundreds of price lists for each country's unique taxes and fees... Hope that makes sense!
The KS has been re-submitted for approval, we are moving but still listening as best we can while they re-deploy!
Let's just say, expectations might be different depending on where you are. Over here, prices are always with taxes. I understand what you're getting at, but still.
Hi all! I know that some folks have wanted to know how much texture the new Secret Weapon HD bases have, so I took some time this weekend to add some personal touches to a few of the bases. On the Knight base, I repainted the top portion of the base as grey cobblestone with some green hues. Nothing more than some drybrushing and glazing. The next photo shows a before and after shot of two bases as packaged, and then again, how you can easily customized them (if you desire little personal touches) with minimal work. The final photo shows some rust effects on a manhole cover, gloss coat on a vat of green ooze, a little bit of blood on Town Square, and some oil and engine fluid stains on Flight Deck. There was absolutely no priming necessary for any of these personal touches.
In for $100, but I'm sure that'll go up. Need to figure out what I'll actually need a year from now vs what I can/should wait for till these hit retail vs what I can afford to spend with coronavirus shutdowns possibly incoming
These are truly awesome, and I wish I was in a position to go in big on the ks. Sadly life is getting in the way, so I'll have to wait for the eventual retail.
All the Temple themes are especially awesome, marble tile was pretty much impossible to do for anything but display pieces. Even if you had the skill to pull off marble it took so freaking long that it wasn't worth it. That's the kind of thing these bases REALLY excel at
Hey tom, just made my pledge, i wanted the ice storm bases, however i noticed there is no "round lip" option just beveled. before i make my selection i was wondering if that will be an option?
The woods themselves are all ready to go, it's a matter of choosing which, and if this alone is desirable or if people want more stuff on them etc. They are kind great looking as is though, what do you guys think?
The woods themselves are all ready to go, it's a matter of choosing which, and if this alone is desirable or if people want more stuff on them etc. They are kind great looking as is though, what do you guys think?
Yeah I personally lean towards them working without being gussied up. Glad you guys like them! Doesn't mean a different theme couldn't work with rugs or whatnot, but it would be a pretty different thing that stands apart I think. We'll see! Glad you guys like it anyways!
If people want to 'darken them up', they'll be able to, otherwise, I think they look great 'as is'.
My thoughts exactly: provide the lightest colour option (which honestly looks very good as-is), that way people can tint them to taste.
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RiTides wrote: I was wondering that, too! And if they could align the wood planks with the print grain / direction, it would naturally add to the effect
That's an excellent point. If you look at the photos you can see print lines that are perpendicular to the direction of the wood planks; I think you're right in that printing them parrallel instead would look better.
mightymconeshot wrote: Any one able to give approximate shipping charges for us? I don't want to make a pledge to have shipping be crazy high
Hi mightmconeshot! If you go into the pledge manager and make a rough estimate of what you think you're going to get, and then view your basket, you'll see a shipping total.
Soul Samurai wrote: Those wooden bases look really good. Almost annoyingly so for me, seeing as I just finished sculpting a pair of bases with a similar pattern.
If people want to 'darken them up', they'll be able to, otherwise, I think they look great 'as is'.
My thoughts exactly: provide the lightest colour option (which honestly looks very good as-is), that way people can tint them to taste.
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RiTides wrote: I was wondering that, too! And if they could align the wood planks with the print grain / direction, it would naturally add to the effect
That's an excellent point. If you look at the photos you can see print lines that are perpendicular to the direction of the wood planks; I think you're right in that printing them parrallel instead would look better.
Good idea, would simply be a matter of flipping the source images too. Typically though, to the naked eye and under production QC, print lines should be so minimal as to be invisible. These guys were printed a while ago and their ability to monitor the nozzle action on the printer and calibrate the UV curing process has come a long way. But yeah, why not leverage it even for a minimal enhancement spot on boys -
Personally I think the bottom right one would look good distressed, i.e. splintered boards, distressed edges, gaps, etc. I'm thinking it would look good for "ghost pirate" and "bayou witch" type armies/themes.
I still haven't gotten to their weathering pigments. I figure one sneeze and I'd be in trouble.
. You're all amazing artists, but I was shocked Tom would have miniatures of a "normal" painting level around 
pending getting to read all the details of what I want tomorrow. You want the impulse backer to be $100, not $1, and they'll sort out the details later! And to be completely honest, that's what us customers want, too 
