To explain what EFCM means, it stands for Electro-Filament Countermeasures, and it is a new AdMech stratagem in the Engine War Psychic Awakening book.

Text here:

Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Select one Archaeopter unit equipped with a command uplink from your army. Until the start of your next turn, enemy models aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6" of that unit.

I was looking at this stratagem, and I was thinking of what auras I wanted to shut down. Then I realized I was not sure what an aura was.

Per the rulebook:

Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

Which sounds massively broad. So I did a search of all FAQs, and I found this in the Space Wolves FAQ:

In addition, if your Warlord is a Character, increase the range of any aura abilities they have by 3" (e.g. the Great Wolf and Jarl of Fenris), excluding Explodes, Healing Balms, Battlesmith, this Warlord Trait, abilities of Relics of the Fang and effects of psychic powers.

It really does seem that the designers consider auras to be much broader than most people think. They include Explode, Repair/Heal abilities... literally any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement.

Am I wrong?

--

So Montka/Kauyon are aura abilities; I think many people believed so even without the above Space Wolves FAQ. (So this is technically a separate question.)

Now, Montka/Kauyon are unique in that they are auras that apply their effects to the units around the Commander WHEN DECLARED. This is why Riptides can get Montka then advance across the battlefield and still shoot.

Which means if I were to suicide park my Copter within 6" of their Commander on turn one and use ECFM, then this means Montka/Kauyon can be declared, but it would have no effect that turn. If a Riptide advances, it cannot shoot at all, even if the Commander exits the 6" of my Copter.

Because Tau definitely cannot have it both ways. Either it applies the effect upon declaration while in range and lasts for the rest of the turn, or they cannot do what they have been doing for years now.

Am I wrong?

 Suzuteo wrote:
So I did a search of all FAQs, and I found this in the Space Wolves FAQ:

In addition, if your Warlord is a Character, increase the range of any aura abilities they have by 3" (e.g. the Great Wolf and Jarl of Fenris), excluding Explodes, Healing Balms, Battlesmith, this Warlord Trait, abilities of Relics of the Fang and effects of psychic powers.

It really does seem that the designers consider auras to be much broader than most people think. They include Explode, Repair/Heal abilities... literally any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. It says excluding, not including. In addition, the SW FAQ above only applies to SW, because it mentions specific SW rules, not general ones.

 Suzuteo wrote:

So Montka/Kauyon are aura abilities; I think many people believed so even without the above Space Wolves FAQ. (So this is technically a separate question.)

Now, Montka/Kauyon are unique in that they are auras that apply their effects to the units around the Commander WHEN DECLARED. This is why Riptides can get Montka then advance across the battlefield and still shoot.

Which means if I were to suicide park my Copter within 6" of their Commander on turn one and use ECFM, then this means Montka/Kauyon can be declared, but it would have no effect that turn. If a Riptide advances, it cannot shoot at all, even if the Commander exits the 6" of my Copter.

Because Tau definitely cannot have it both ways. Either it applies the effect upon declaration while in range and lasts for the rest of the turn, or they cannot do what they have been doing for years now.

Am I wrong?

You can shut down Montka/Kauyon with EFCM, because it fits the description the core rules, its an aura ability.

Why would you exclude an ability if it's not an aura?

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, you are wrong. It says excluding, not including. In addition, the SW FAQ above only applies to SW, because it mentions specific SW rules, not general ones.

As stated above, the FAQ implies that they are aura abilities, which is why the designers felt that they had to be excluded from the effects of this rule.

Because Explodes is technically an Aura ability based on the definition of Aura Abilities.

It's why the Guard WLT somehow makes Tank Commanders explode biggerer.

So I would say, yes, until otherwise states EFCM shut down Master of War.

Of course this relies on you going first and a lack of proper screening by the tau player allowing you to get close enough.

I also think the tau player might be more concerned you turned the shield drones off....

I'd bet the tau player would take losing kayun over getting an ork bommer dropped on their head for 3MW per drone unit - which requires the same kind of screening.

Denying space for flyers to land will just become part of the things you need to consider when deploying.

U02dah4 wrote:


I also think the tau player might be more concerned you turned the shield drones off....

Yes, saviour protocols is also an aura ability. But tau players usually have lots of shield drones. Its unlikely you will be able to position your copter within 6" of all shield drones.

All no - but turning a patch off to leave a couple of key units vulnerable is acheivable and that could result a decent reduction in firepower accross the game

Okay, I'll play devils advocate but first I would ask how much this stratagem costs to play?

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
Okay, I'll play devils advocate but first I would ask how much this stratagem costs to play?

Andrew

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/26/new-rules-for-the-adeptus-mechanicusgw-homepage-post-3/ 1CP

No one about?

Okay I have concerns as to this stratagem and its ability. If the sole qualifier for an aura is that it affects units within x" then is has the ability to shut everything down.

That may be a teensy bit hyperbolic but not that far off. Blessings of the omniissiah, Litanies, strategems as well. Cluster Mines come to mind. Psychic hoods! An arguement could be made for deny the witch being stopped. Voice of Command, the Sisters Battle Sanctum. Ork waaagh of any flavour. KFFs. Every bodyguard rule currently written.

Many abilities in this game has an effect on units within x" and have rules written to that formula. The last strategem that had that level of power was Agents of Vect and that was 4cp and you had to have Vect or his cronies in your army and on the board. So unless this has the same points costs and conditions then I think the op is over-reaching the power of this.

However, this is GW we're talking about and it may be that they seriously want such an overpowered ability, and aura may be defined differently in 9th, (Hey a glossary of terms! Nah its GW.) And this has been written with that in mind.

Considering the balance I have to tend to over reach rather than this level of broken.

Cheers

Andrew


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ta BCB. That will be fixed pretty quickly. No way that that is worth 1 CP.

it doesn't shut down the battle sanctum. That becomes terrain after deployment and so it's rules don't count as your opponents auras

most of thats more a strategy point than a rules question but it seems balanced more in that the units are a little overpriced

you have to be within 6 to shut things down so you can zone people away from key auras with screening as many would vs flying lists normally. the models its on arn't the most gun efficient so i wouldn't be to worried you will see them everywhere

just take 100 kroot guard or plaguebearers and they wont get close

You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

I have my fingers crossed for Aura being one of those things they fix in 9th Edition, namely defining which specific rules are aura much like they've already said they will do with Blast weapons.

You're blowing this way out of proportion.

First of all, you can't use this if you take the Chaff Launchers. That cuts your survivablity in half.

Secondly, you can just kill the Archaeopter with your long range stuff and now your auras are back online.

Thirdly, you could just, ya know, scoot 2" backwards and now your auras are turned back on. In fact, as long as you have 5" of movement, you can just move out of range of it the majority of the time.

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

They target one unit within range, Auras target every unit in range. Otherwise charging would be an ‘Aura’...

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You're blowing this way out of proportion.

First of all, you can't use this if you take the Chaff Launchers. That cuts your survivablity in half.

Secondly, you can just kill the Archaeopter with your long range stuff and now your auras are back online.

Thirdly, you could just, ya know, scoot 2" backwards and now your auras are turned back on. In fact, as long as you have 5" of movement, you can just move out of range of it the majority of the time.

I do not deny a word of this, you are quite right. There are simple steps that can be taken to either deny use or to work round.

This is not a 'sky is falling' arguement to preserve my Tau. I stated that I would be a devils advocate. However you have to admit its vastly overpowered.

Andrew


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

They target one unit within range, Auras target every unit in range. Otherwise charging would be an ‘Aura’...

Makes no difference whether it affects one unit or ten, it has an area of effect.

You don't have chance to move out of its range before it's in effect.

The strategy is played at the end of the Admech movement phase so any "auras" are OFF until your movement phase and in the natural order of things only killing it in your fight phases of the Admechs turn will grant you any respite from its effects. But it's largely too late by then, damage is already done.

Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

Octovol wrote:
You don't have chance to move out of its range before it's in effect.

The strategy is played at the end of the Admech movement phase so any "auras" are OFF until your movement phase and in the natural order of things only killing it in your fight phases of the Admechs turn will grant you any respite from its effects. But it's largely too late by then, damage is already done.

Pretty sure the most important auras are the ones done in your own shooting phase. When you kill the Archaeopter with units that are out of range of the Aura killing effect anyway, the stratagem ceases to function because you can no longer measure to the Archaeopter. It doesn't matter that the stratagem lasts until the start of the Admech players turn, the stratagem requires you to measure to the Archaeopter and if it's dead, you can't do that, so it doesn't do anything.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Octovol wrote:
You don't have chance to move out of its range before it's in effect.

The strategy is played at the end of the Admech movement phase so any "auras" are OFF until your movement phase and in the natural order of things only killing it in your fight phases of the Admechs turn will grant you any respite from its effects. But it's largely too late by then, damage is already done.

Pretty sure the most important auras are the ones done in your own shooting phase. When you kill the Archaeopter with units that are out of range of the Aura killing effect anyway, the stratagem ceases to function because you can no longer measure to the Archaeopter. It doesn't matter that the stratagem lasts until the start of the Admech players turn, the stratagem requires you to measure to the Archaeopter and if it's dead, you can't do that, so it doesn't do anything.

That depends on your army I guess. Tau are in serious trouble without their drone auras, no invulns, no saviour protocols. Harlequins likewise have many auras that reduce incoming attack effectiveness. re-roll morale auras, banners, Ork KFF all sorts. There are probably as many defensive auras as offensive and if I were looking to shut down auras it wouldn't be less what you could do to me if you dont get rid of it and more what I could turn off to increase my own effectiveness.

 p5freak wrote:
Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

That's hilarious. NL gets a 2CP strat that affects 1 and AM gets a 1CP strat that affects everyone....

Montka/Kauyon is at the start of the turn so they cant move away from the copter.

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Robbie G could probably just give the Archaeopter doing it to him the finger with his Hand of Dominion and watch the gunfire from the gauntlet knock it out of the sky.And shutting down an entire IG army by being within 6" of one person before the entire army could unleash enough gunfire to take down the distraction would be pretty miraculous (and since it's not Adepta Sororitas throwing out the stratagem, the miracles would probably be in short supply).

U02dah4 wrote:
Of course this relies on you going first and a lack of proper screening by the tau player allowing you to get close enough.

I also think the tau player might be more concerned you turned the shield drones off....

You're right. Saviour Protocols is also an aura ability.

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, saviour protocols is also an aura ability. But tau players usually have lots of shield drones. Its unlikely you will be able to position your copter within 6" of all shield drones.

Saviour Protocols is on the unit being attacked, not the Drones.

EDIT: Scratch that. The rule is on both, so I would need to be in range of both to shut their auras down. Still, it buys me one turn without SP, which easily lets me kill off Riptides, Yhavra, etc.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

They target one unit within range, Auras target every unit in range. Otherwise charging would be an ‘Aura’...

Makes no difference whether it affects one unit or ten, it has an area of effect.

@Kaneda88
You're going to have to cite proof for that. RAW, any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement is an aura. And from the SW FAQ, it's RAI as well. And in practice, I have heard now that both FLG and NOVA have ruled pretty consistently in the same way.

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Kaneda88
You're going to have to cite proof for that. RAW, any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement is an aura. And from the SW FAQ, it's RAI as well. And in practice, I have heard now that both FLG and NOVA have ruled pretty consistently in the same way.

The definition between comas in my previous commant is verbatim from the rulebook, it is pretty clear to me it means abilitys that affect all units with x requirement in y range. The sw faq does not challenge that, all the examples follow what i’m saying, orders do not.

EDIT: nevermind healing balms and battlesmith also make you choose a single unit, my definition is still correct but the faq poses a problem.

If it only affects a limited number of units or models, it isn't an aura. A contrary definition would say that any psychic buff - Guide, say - is an aura because it has a 24 inch range.

Auras can have limitations on the type of units they affect - i.e. only <Forge World>, only <infantry>, etc, but not on the number of units. Then it isn't an aura any more. This is based on the definition in the book itself. The Space Wolf FAQ is just stupidly thought out, but it only affects what it's actually talking about. You can't generalize from the specific FAQ contradicting the general definition and say that means the general definition is changed.

BRB Page 179 wrote:Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle’s Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him. As the Lord of Contagion is also a DEATH GUARD model, he benefits from this ability as well.

There is no requirement for Auras to affect "all" models, only "certain models within a given range". A rule that affects only 1 unit or model within range is technically an aura ability. Note the Death Guard example is exactly that, an example, and not an exhaustive list.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BRB Page 179 wrote:Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle’s Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him. As the Lord of Contagion is also a DEATH GUARD model, he benefits from this ability as well.

There is no requirement for Auras to affect "all" models, only "certain models within a given range". A rule that affects only 1 unit or model within range is technically an aura ability. Note the Death Guard example is exactly that, an example, and not an exhaustive list.

Certain models is clearly models that follow certain requirements otherwise litterally everything in this game from shooting to psychic power would be an aura since evrything uses distances.

Kaneda88 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BRB Page 179 wrote:Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle’s Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him. As the Lord of Contagion is also a DEATH GUARD model, he benefits from this ability as well.

There is no requirement for Auras to affect "all" models, only "certain models within a given range". A rule that affects only 1 unit or model within range is technically an aura ability. Note the Death Guard example is exactly that, an example, and not an exhaustive list.

Certain models is clearly models that follow certain requirements otherwise litterally everything in this game from shooting to psychic power would be an aura since evrything uses distances.

The number of models can be a requirement.

Also, it only affects abilities. Shooting isn't an ability (the section on the datasheet called Abilities are abilities).

Do I think it's only meant to actually be abilities that radiate out in an Aura? Probably. Can I know that is what they "intended"? No. GW can't write rules properly.

So is Guide an aura?

I mean you can't say "it's not an aura because it's a psychic power," because some psychic powers clearly are auras, even though they aren't on the ability section of the datasheet. A psychic power that gives a 6+++ to every <x> within <y> is obviously an aura, for example.

@yukishiro1
I don't think any psychic power can be considered an aura ability, actually. There is nothing linking the two in the rules as written. I mean, technically, psychic powers aren't even a property of a unit.

I think a lot of people here are really hung up on the idea of an "aura" based on what they know from video games, but you can't rely on outside concepts for your understanding of rules in a different game.

yes and no

the manifesting of the psychic power is a psychic power not an aura so you can do so.

Once manifested the psychic power creates a 6+++ aura within x"

 Suzuteo wrote:
@yukishiro1
I don't think any psychic power can be considered an aura ability, actually. There is nothing linking the two in the rules as written. I mean, technically, psychic powers aren't even a property of a unit.

I think a lot of people here are really hung up on the idea of an "aura" based on what they know from video games, but you can't rely on outside concepts for your understanding of rules in a different game.

But that's just silly. Everyone knows that null zone is an aura, but by your logic, it wouldn't be.

A lot of spells use the term Target Unit. Would that not stop said ability from being an Aura since it is specifically targeting one unit? Again hopefully the definition of an AURA will be updated come 9th edition.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Also, it only affects abilities. Shooting isn't an ability (the section on the datasheet called Abilities are abilities).

There are lots of things that GW calls abilities.

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds
Add the following as a boxout on this page:
‘Ignoring Wounds
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore
the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g.
Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious
Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you
can only use one of those abilities each time the model
loses a wound.’

Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:
yes and no

the manifesting of the psychic power is a psychic power not an aura so you can do so.

Once manifested the psychic power creates a 6+++ aura within x"

Psychic powers are abilities. When they affect certain models within a given range they are aura abilities.

1. Choose Psyker and Power
Some models are noted as being a
Psyker on their datasheet. Psykers can
manifest their otherworldly abilities and
attempt to deny enemy sorceries.

I'm hoping discussions like this one will die a swift death due to the 9th Edition rules.

We can hope, but if GW was capable of writing good, consistent, non-loophole-filed rules, why haven't they been doing it all this time? Why wait for 9th?

The new PA books are at least as full of unclear sloppily-written rules as the rest of the 8th edition rules. So I wouldn't hold my breath that they weren't really trying all this time and are suddenly going to start being serious.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm hoping discussions like this one will die a swift death due to the 9th Edition rules.

You actually think GW will write clear, precise, non-ambiguous rules ??

yukishiro1 wrote:
But that's just silly. Everyone knows that null zone is an aura, but by your logic, it wouldn't be.

I will admit that I am not sure on this. An absence of evidence is not absence of evidence, as I say.

That being said, I take issue with the idea that EVERYONE knows this. Why is that? Does it say anywhere that Null Zone is an aura ability? Or is it because you play video games, and Null Zone feels like an aura from that context?

cody.d. wrote:
A lot of spells use the term Target Unit. Would that not stop said ability from being an Aura since it is specifically targeting one unit? Again hopefully the definition of an AURA will be updated come 9th edition.

No, they specifically list abilities that target units as examples of auras.

My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

Null zone IS an aura because once the litany is inspiring anything that moves in range is effected and anything that moves out of range is unaffacted.

Guide for example isn't because once activated the targetted unit has the effect applied to them wherever they move to. If it were an aura they would have to stay close to the source of the power.

Auras are areas constantly affected regions from a focal point. The rules may not back that definition up, but if you're thinking like a human being instead of someone trying to exploit a vague definition for advantage then it's pretty easy to see what is and isn't affected by this.

The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

Octovol wrote:
My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

Octovol wrote:
The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

I don't think psychic powers or stratagems are considered aura abilities. "Aura abilities" refers to rules belonging to a unit specifically that have a "within a given range" requirement. That is all the textual support I can find for it, and the Space Wolves FAQ, FLG, and NOVA people seem to agree.

 Suzuteo wrote:

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

No, sorry, that is not how the game rules are written.

Show me where in the rules my dice need to have sides numbered 1 to 6?

You absolutely need to make inferences about intentions outside the wording of the rules. Yes, it will be inconsistent sometimes, but that's what it is. Dont like it? Find a game that is written in rigorous logical terms, because this is not it.

 Stux wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

No, sorry, that is not how the game rules are written.

Show me where in the rules my dice need to have sides numbered 1 to 6?

You absolutely need to make inferences about intentions outside the wording of the rules. Yes, it will be inconsistent sometimes, but that's what it is. Dont like it? Find a game that is written in rigorous logical terms, because this is not it.

You make inferences only when you need to, not whenever you feel like it. I could infer that all the numbers are actually in base 60, so my Rhino has 60(Dec) wounds and not 10. But that is not needed for the game to function, whereas falling back to the dictionary definition of "roll" that makes sense is needed.

Octovol wrote:
My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

Null zone IS an aura because once the litany is inspiring anything that moves in range is effected and anything that moves out of range is unaffacted.

Guide for example isn't because once activated the targetted unit has the effect applied to them wherever they move to. If it were an aura they would have to stay close to the source of the power.

Auras are areas constantly affected regions from a focal point. The rules may not back that definition up, but if you're thinking like a human being instead of someone trying to exploit a vague definition for advantage then it's pretty easy to see what is and isn't affected by this.

The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

This interpretation makes sense to me although the two arceocopter questions is irrelevant because its resolved by simultaneous effects and the player whose turn it is determines which one applys first

U02dah4 wrote:

This interpretation makes sense to me although the two arceocopter questions is irrelevant because its resolved by simultaneous effects and the player whose turn it is determines which one applys first

You use the stratagem at the end of your movement phase and it lasts until the beginning of your next turn. The first player to use the stratagem would already have it up and going at the time the second player tries to use that stratagem. It's in no way simultaneous.

EDIT: The first player to pop the stratagem would keep the second player's stratagem from taking effect during the second player's turn. But, when the first player's stratagem wears off at the start of his next turn, the second player's stratagem would be in effect at that point, and if the first player uses the stratagem again it won't be in effect during the first player's turn unless he moved out of the area of effect of the 2nd player's stratagem. Player 1 would, however see his 2nd use of the stratagem start to take effect (if he was still within the area of effect) when Player 2's stratagem kicked off, so basically in a duelling case you can still use the stratagem, but if you're within the range of opereation of the enemy ECFM there's only an effect seen during the enemy's turn.

 AndrewC wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

That's hilarious. NL gets a 2CP strat that affects 1 and AM gets a 1CP strat that affects everyone....

Montka/Kauyon is at the start of the turn so they cant move away from the copter.

Andrew

Night lords have an 18" range on it. Admech has a 6" range that you can body block with a screen because the plane has a huge base

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

That's hilarious. NL gets a 2CP strat that affects 1 and AM gets a 1CP strat that affects everyone....

Montka/Kauyon is at the start of the turn so they cant move away from the copter.

Andrew

Night lords have an 18" range on it. Admech has a 6" range that you can body block with a screen because the plane has a huge base

Don't be too quick on that we don't have the 9th edition rules which could make it actually even more broken than it already seems.

Ice_can wrote:
Don't be too quick on that we don't have the 9th edition rules which could make it actually even more broken than it already seems.

Nono, that wont happen. PA books were written with 9th in mind. And 9th will be the best edition ever

 Suzuteo wrote:

Octovol wrote:
My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

Octovol wrote:
The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

I don't think psychic powers or stratagems are considered aura abilities. "Aura abilities" refers to rules belonging to a unit specifically that have a "within a given range" requirement. That is all the textual support I can find for it, and the Space Wolves FAQ, FLG, and NOVA people seem to agree.

Space Wolf FAQ disagrees that the effects of stratagems aren't aura abilities.

Q: Are the effects of Stratagems such as Cloaked by the Storm
and Howl of the Great Pack considered to be aura abilities for
the purpose of the Saga of Majesty Warlord Trait?
A: Yes.

JakeSiren wrote:

Space Wolf FAQ disagrees that the effects of stratagems aren't aura abilities.

Q: Are the effects of Stratagems such as Cloaked by the Storm
and Howl of the Great Pack considered to be aura abilities for
the purpose of the Saga of Majesty Warlord Trait?
A: Yes.

Unfortunately they are only considered aura abilities for the purposes of the saga of majesty warlord trait. This doesnt answer whether they are considered aura abilities for stratagems like EFCM, or not.

@JakeSiren
Yeah, it's dumb, but when they are specific like that, it only applies to what they are being specific about. (BaconCatBug used to have a running list of these special snowflake rules, but I guess it got too long, so he had to stop.)

In fact, I would argue that the fact that they carve out an exception implies the opposite, that they are not normally considered aura abilities.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Space Wolf FAQ disagrees that the effects of stratagems aren't aura abilities.

Q: Are the effects of Stratagems such as Cloaked by the Storm
and Howl of the Great Pack considered to be aura abilities for
the purpose of the Saga of Majesty Warlord Trait?
A: Yes.

Unfortunately they are only considered aura abilities for the purposes of the saga of majesty warlord trait. This doesnt answer whether they are considered aura abilities for stratagems like EFCM, or not.

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

JakeSiren wrote:

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

There are a lot of abilities that affect certain models within a given range. By the rulebook definition smite is also an aura ability, because psychic powers are abilities, and smite affects certain models within a given range. Does EFCM shut down smite ?

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

There are a lot of abilities that affect certain models within a given range. By the rulebook definition smite is also an aura ability, because psychic powers are abilities, and smite affects certain models within a given range. Does EFCM shut down smite ?

Smite isn't an ability that a unit has, so by definition it can not be an aura.

You are also wrong about psychic powers being aura abilities. A psyker knows a number of psychic powers, and has the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers. But that ability to manifest psychic power itself is not an aura. A manifested psychic power isn't an aura either as it is not an ability that belongs to a unit.

A psychic power can however grant an ability to a unit that affects certain models within a given range. That ability would be considered an aura.

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Well good luck getting near it. KFF on orks? Good luck getting that copter in movement phase within 6" of the mek. The bubble is 9" and tends to be filled with orks to benefit from the 5++ and the base of copter isn't that small...

BTW sanctum you only lose the morale boost/debuff vs chaos. Woo! Scary...not.

JakeSiren wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

There are a lot of abilities that affect certain models within a given range. By the rulebook definition smite is also an aura ability, because psychic powers are abilities, and smite affects certain models within a given range. Does EFCM shut down smite ?

Smite isn't an ability that a unit has, so by definition it can not be an aura.

You are also wrong about psychic powers being aura abilities. A psyker knows a number of psychic powers, and has the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers. But that ability to manifest psychic power itself is not an aura. A manifested psychic power isn't an aura either as it is not an ability that belongs to a unit.

A psychic power can however grant an ability to a unit that affects certain models within a given range. That ability would be considered an aura.

Psychic powers are abilities. I already quoted the relevant rule from the core rules in this thread. Here it is again :

1. Choose Psyker and Power
Some models are noted as being a
Psyker on their datasheet. Psykers can
manifest their otherworldly abilities and
attempt to deny enemy sorceries.

tneva82 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Well good luck getting near it. KFF on orks? Good luck getting that copter in movement phase within 6" of the mek. The bubble is 9" and tends to be filled with orks to benefit from the 5++ and the base of copter isn't that small...

BTW sanctum you only lose the morale boost/debuff vs chaos. Woo! Scary...not.

You're missing the point I was making. It doesn't matter how difficult it may be to get the flyer into range, and remember the rules for 9th have been altered in some way to change they way flyer bases interact on movement, it's what the final effect is. I have already said that there are easy workarounds to avoid/alleviate the effect. It's the fact that it can do this in the first place and for so cheaply was the point.

Andrew

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

There are a lot of abilities that affect certain models within a given range. By the rulebook definition smite is also an aura ability, because psychic powers are abilities, and smite affects certain models within a given range. Does EFCM shut down smite ?

Smite isn't an ability that a unit has, so by definition it can not be an aura.

You are also wrong about psychic powers being aura abilities. A psyker knows a number of psychic powers, and has the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers. But that ability to manifest psychic power itself is not an aura. A manifested psychic power isn't an aura either as it is not an ability that belongs to a unit.

A psychic power can however grant an ability to a unit that affects certain models within a given range. That ability would be considered an aura.

Psychic powers are abilities. I already quoted the relevant rule from the core rules in this thread. Here it is again :

1. Choose Psyker and Power
Some models are noted as being a
Psyker on their datasheet. Psykers can
manifest their otherworldly abilities and
attempt to deny enemy sorceries.

You just demonstrated that the "psychic ability" doesn't belong to the Psyker unit. As I said, the Psykers have the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers, which is what your quoted text confirms. The ability to manifest an ability is different from having the ability itself.

A good example of an ability giving another ability is the Space Wolves warlord traits. You have an ability (sagas), that under certain conditions, grants you another ability (in this case converting a warlord trait ability into an aura).

The "smite ability" is not an ability given to a Psyker unit, as of such it fails the criterion to be considered an aura.

JakeSiren wrote:

You just demonstrated that the "psychic ability" doesn't belong to the Psyker unit.

A psyker doesnt have psychic abilities ? But he can manifest an ability that doesnt belong to him ? That makes 0 sense.

JakeSiren wrote:
The ability to manifest an ability is different from having the ability itself.

Citation please.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

You just demonstrated that the "psychic ability" doesn't belong to the Psyker unit. As I said, the Psykers have the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers, which is what your quoted text confirms.

A psyker doesnt have psychic abilities ? But he can manifest an ability that doesnt belong to him ? That makes 0 sense.

Fixed that for you. Whatever your point is has been lost by the disingenuity of your quoting.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
The ability to manifest an ability is different from having the ability itself.

Citation please.

Off the top of my head, My Will Be Done (Codex: Necron), Deeds of Legend (Codex: Space Wolves), Warp Vortex (Codex: Thousand Sons)
These are all examples of abilities that manifest other abilities, and are different from having the manifested ability.

JakeSiren wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

You just demonstrated that the "psychic ability" doesn't belong to the Psyker unit. As I said, the Psykers have the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers, which is what your quoted text confirms.

A psyker doesnt have psychic abilities ? But he can manifest an ability that doesnt belong to him ? That makes 0 sense.

Fixed that for you. Whatever your point is has been lost by the disingenuity of your quoting.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
The ability to manifest an ability is different from having the ability itself.

Citation please.

Off the top of my head, My Will Be Done (Codex: Necron), Deeds of Legend (Codex: Space Wolves), Warp Vortex (Codex: Thousand Sons)
These are all examples of abilities that manifest other abilities, and are different from having the manifested ability.

Whatever you say makes 0 sense.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

You just demonstrated that the "psychic ability" doesn't belong to the Psyker unit. As I said, the Psykers have the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers, which is what your quoted text confirms.

A psyker doesnt have psychic abilities ? But he can manifest an ability that doesnt belong to him ? That makes 0 sense.

Fixed that for you. Whatever your point is has been lost by the disingenuity of your quoting.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
The ability to manifest an ability is different from having the ability itself.

Citation please.

Off the top of my head, My Will Be Done (Codex: Necron), Deeds of Legend (Codex: Space Wolves), Warp Vortex (Codex: Thousand Sons)
These are all examples of abilities that manifest other abilities, and are different from having the manifested ability.

Whatever you say makes 0 sense.

Sounds like you are conceding that I am correct. If not, then how about you prove your position instead.

An aura ability is when a "unit [has] abilities that affect certain models within a given range" as per BRB.
As per the wording on datasheets and the psychic phase, Psykers know powers such as smite. This is not an ability they have. The ability they have is "Unit X can attempt to manifest Y psychic powers in each friendly Psychic phase, and attempt to deny Z psychih powers in each enemy Psychic phase. He knows the Smite power and A psychic powers from the B discipline"

Show me when the Psyker Unit gains the "smite ability", because reading the above in conjunction with the psychic rules, they never do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@OP, in terms of aura's the BRB casts a wide net. However, generally speaking you need to have an ability that is associated with a unit, and that affects other units within a given range of that original unit. The ability can either be something on their datasheet (such as re-rolls), or granted by the effects of a stratagem or psychic power (such as null zone). The stratagems and powers themselves aren't auras. You will however typically see a common theme with auras granted by stratagems and powers. They will typically have a time limit (ex: until your next psychic phase), target a unit (select a friendly unit), and have an effect for units around this unit (reroll 1s for unit's within 6"). I hope this clears things up as to what is an aura.

tneva82 wrote:


Well good luck getting near it. KFF on orks? Good luck getting that copter in movement phase within 6" of the mek. The bubble is 9" and tends to be filled with orks to benefit from the 5++ and the base of copter isn't that small...

BTW sanctum you only lose the morale boost/debuff vs chaos. Woo! Scary...not.

So, does it only shut down the ability if it gets in range of the model that has the ability, or does it stop the effects of the ability applying to any model within 6" of the copter? I feel the wording is somewhat ambiguous on that point.

JakeSiren wrote:

Show me when the Psyker Unit gains the "smite ability", because reading the above in conjunction with the psychic rules, they never do.

"This model can attempt to manifest two psychic powers in your Psychic phase and attempt to deny one psychic power in your opponent’s Psychic phase. It knows Smite and two psychic powers from the Librarius discipline." - Space Marines – Librarian Dataslate


How would it know smite yet not gain the smite ability?

 Kcalehc wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Well good luck getting near it. KFF on orks? Good luck getting that copter in movement phase within 6" of the mek. The bubble is 9" and tends to be filled with orks to benefit from the 5++ and the base of copter isn't that small...

BTW sanctum you only lose the morale boost/debuff vs chaos. Woo! Scary...not.

So, does it only shut down the ability if it gets in range of the model that has the ability, or does it stop the effects of the ability applying to any model within 6" of the copter? I feel the wording is somewhat ambiguous on that point.

Sanctum looses nothing its neutral

Aura abilities have no effect within 6" of the arceocopter seems pretty self explanatory.

An arceocopter 6" from a smash cpt would prevent its aura from functioning on any models within 6" of it.

Those models 6" from the cpt but not 6" from the arceocopter have the rr1's aura

As to the cpt unless his whole base is within 6" of the arceocopter he has an aura

There's an interesting point, models only lose the abilities while within 6".

So if a Tau Commander calls a Mont'ka while within 6" on a Riptide also within 6" and the subsequently move out of the AM "bubble" do they then get to fire without penalty?

Andrew

EFCM doesn't disable abilities so the Tau commander can declare Mont'ka while wholey within 6" of the EFCM.

he then has the Aura tau empire units within 6" can advance and move as if they hadn't moved this turn.

EFCM disables the effect of that Aura within its 6" bubble. Any Aura outside of that bubble continues as normal.

If the Tau commander then moves so does its aura. Any part of its Aura not within 6" of the EFCM is now active.

For completeness if any part of the Tau commanders base is not covered by EFCM after it has moved Mont'ka will effect it

Aura abilities from any enemy model within 6" of the copter have no effect.

 p5freak wrote:
Aura abilities from any enemy model within 6" of the copter have no effect.

Yes, while within 6" they have no effect. However if they then move out of that bubble do the abilities come back? The strategy wording seems to imply they do.

 AndrewC wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Aura abilities from any enemy model within 6" of the copter have no effect.

Yes, while within 6" they have no effect. However if they then move out of that bubble do the abilities come back? The strategy wording seems to imply they do.

Yes, outside the bubble they come back. Also, if you're in the bubble, the abilities come back at the start of the next turn (at least until the end of his movement phase, where he can use EFCM again).

U02dah4 wrote:
EFCM doesn't disable abilities so the Tau commander can declare Mont'ka while wholey within 6" of the EFCM.

he then has the Aura tau empire units within 6" can advance and move as if they hadn't moved this turn.

EFCM disables the effect of that Aura within its 6" bubble. Any Aura outside of that bubble continues as normal.

If the Tau commander then moves so does its aura. Any part of its Aura not within 6" of the EFCM is now active.

For completeness if any part of the Tau commanders base is not covered by EFCM after it has moved Mont'ka will effect it

This is not how it works. If the tau commander is within 6" of the EFCM copter he can declare montka, but it has no effect. Its irrelevant whether other tau units are outside of the 6" bubble of the copter. Where the commander is matters, he must be more than 6" away from the copter, then montka works as described.
Its different for kauyon, which works at the start of the movement phase. The commander is still within 6" of the EFCM copter, so kauyon has no effect. When he moves away from the copter the start of the movement phase has passed and kauyon can no longer be used.

No you are incorrect that is precisely how it works

" untill the start of your next turn enemy units aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6".


Not "untill the start of your next turn the aura abilities of enemy units within 6" have no effect."

The aura abilities are targeted by the ability not the units. So the aura abilities stop functioning within 6" of the copter not the units themselves stop projecting auras.

If the tau commander has part of his aura obscured then within the obscured part its aura the aura has no effect. outside the obscured part there is nothing saying his rule has no effect so it continues

U02dah4 wrote:
No you are incorrect that is precisely how it works

" untill the start of your next turn enemy units aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6".


Not "untill the start of your next turn the aura abilities of enemy units within 6" have no effect."

The aura abilities are targeted by the ability not the units. So the aura abilities stop functioning within 6" of the copter not the units themselves stop projecting auras.

If the tau commander has part of his aura obscured then within the obscured part its aura has no effect outside the obscured part there is nothing saying his rule has no effect so it continues

The aura ability from the commander is targeted by EFCM, it has no effect. Either the aura ability has an effect, or not. Its on or off, there is no partial effect for some units outside of the EFCM 6" bubble.

Where does it say that.

It only says the aura abilities have no effect within 6 of the copter

Nowhere does it say units lose aura abilities it would need to say "the aura abilities of enemy units" but it doesn't

U02dah4 wrote:
Where does it say that.

It only says the aura abilities have no effect within 6 of the copter

Nowhere does it say units lose aura abilities

It says enemy units aura abilities, which means the aura ability from the tau commander has no effect.

...enemy units aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6".

 p5freak wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Where does it say that.

It only says the aura abilities have no effect within 6 of the copter

Nowhere does it say units lose aura abilities

It says enemy units aura abilities, which means the aura ability from the tau commander has no effect.

...enemy units aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6".

By that reading then aslong as the model with the aura is outwith 6 it will still effect models within 6 inches of the copter.

 p5freak wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Where does it say that.

It only says the aura abilities have no effect within 6 of the copter

Nowhere does it say units lose aura abilities

It says enemy units aura abilities, which means the aura ability from the tau commander has no effect.

...enemy units aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6".

It does not say enemy units aura abilities,
It says "enemy models aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6" of that unit"

There is no comma.

Even if you seperated that way it doesn't support your position - it would need to be "enemy units, aura abilities" implying a targeting of the enemy unit

As you say it targets the aura ability and says thaat ability has no effect whilst within 6" it says nothing about outside of the 6
And you agree it does not target the enemy unit

U02dah4 wrote:

It does not say enemy units aura abilities,
It says "enemy models aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6" of that unit"

There is no comma.

Even if you seperated that way it doesn't support your position - it would need to be "enemy units, aura abilities" implying a targeting of the enemy unit

As you say it targets the aura ability and says thaat ability has no effect whilst within 6" it says nothing about outside of the 6
And you agree it does not target the enemy unit

Ah, i get now. Yes, i think you are right. Any enemy units inside the 6" bubble are affected by EFCM. Units outside the 6" bubble arent affected, and aura abilities work.

So, if a unit that wholly within 9" of a Morkanaut with KFF would be partially within 6" of the flyer, nothing prevents me from still taking my 5++ saves as long as I keep allocating the wounds to models outside of the stratagem's effect, right?

 Jidmah wrote:
So, if a unit that wholly within 9" of a Morkanaut with KFF would be partially within 6" of the flyer, nothing prevents me from still taking my 5++ saves as long as I keep allocating the wounds to models outside of the stratagem's effect, right?

Yes.

 Jidmah wrote:
So, if a unit that wholly within 9" of a Morkanaut with KFF would be partially within 6" of the flyer, nothing prevents me from still taking my 5++ saves as long as I keep allocating the wounds to models outside of the stratagem's effect, right?

Agreed with p5 freak - yes, that's perfectly legal.

Why would you only have to pick models outside 6"? The KFF works on the whole unit, not on individual models. If the whole unit is within the KFF range, and not wholly covered by the 6" from the copter, I don't see why you wouldn't get the 5++ on every model, even the ones within the range of the copter.

It's the same reason that the strat does nothing against shield drones unless it covers the whole unit. Aura abilities the entire unit possesses can't be turned off piecemeal just because you covered one or more of the models. You need to cover the entire unit or the aura isn't suppressed on any of them, because there is still one model with the aura projecting it.

The ones covered by the 6" bubble lose their aura abilities, but as long as there's still at least one model outside the 6", wouldn't the entire unit retain the ability, as long as the ability is allocated by unit, not by model?

yukishiro1 wrote:
Why would you only have to pick models outside 6"? The KFF works on the whole unit, not on individual models. If the whole unit is within the KFF range, and not wholly covered by the 6" from the copter, I don't see why you wouldn't get the 5++ on every model, even the ones within the range of the copter.

It's the same reason that the strat does nothing against shield drones unless it covers the whole unit. Aura abilities the entire unit possesses can't be turned off piecemeal just because you covered one or more of the models. You need to cover the entire unit or the aura isn't suppressed on any of them, because there is still one model with the aura projecting it.

The ones covered by the 6" bubble lose their aura abilities, but as long as there's still at least one model outside the 6", wouldn't the entire unit retain the ability, as long as the ability is allocated by unit, not by model?

Saves are done by the model, not by the unit. If the model's within the range that aura abilities don't work, it wouldn't get the KFF save..EFCM states"enemy models aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6" of that unit." note that it's also dealing on a model basis, not a unit basis.

Err, guys, the Mek is the one with the Aura. The Mek is the one that needs to be within 6" to have it be turned off, the unit affected by the KFF doesn't care if it is or isn't.

 doctortom wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Why would you only have to pick models outside 6"? The KFF works on the whole unit, not on individual models. If the whole unit is within the KFF range, and not wholly covered by the 6" from the copter, I don't see why you wouldn't get the 5++ on every model, even the ones within the range of the copter.

It's the same reason that the strat does nothing against shield drones unless it covers the whole unit. Aura abilities the entire unit possesses can't be turned off piecemeal just because you covered one or more of the models. You need to cover the entire unit or the aura isn't suppressed on any of them, because there is still one model with the aura projecting it.

The ones covered by the 6" bubble lose their aura abilities, but as long as there's still at least one model outside the 6", wouldn't the entire unit retain the ability, as long as the ability is allocated by unit, not by model?

Saves are done by the model, not by the unit. If the model's within the range that aura abilities don't work, it wouldn't get the KFF save..EFCM states"enemy models aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6" of that unit." note that it's also dealing on a model basis, not a unit basis.

But the entire unit gets the 5++ if it is wholly within the 9". The KFF doesn't say "models within 9" get the save, as an individual ability." It says the whole unit gets it.

Saves are done individually...but the entire unit gains a 5++. Note that this is unlike, say, cover. Unless the entire unit is covered by the 6" suppression bubble, one model in the unit still has a "this unit gets a 5++" ability, and that gives it to the entire unit, because it's by unit, not by model.

This is all assuming that we read the strat to stop models within 6" from getting the impact of auras, rather than reading it to say that it turns off auras that originate within 6" of the copter. If it's the latter, then the only question is whether the KFF-generating unit is within the 6".




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Err, guys, the Mek is the one with the Aura. The Mek is the one that needs to be within 6" to have it be turned off, the unit affected by the KFF doesn't care if it is or isn't.

I would tend to read it that way too, but it's not entirely grammatically clear. It doesn't help that there's a typo in the strat, suggesting it wasn't properly proofread and thought about carefully anyway.

Just to update this thread that the engine War FAQ creates a special snowflake ruleing for tech marine gunners stateing that they dont count as auras for the purpose of this strategem.

Nicelly highlighting that one was needed

However being GW Mek Gunz do not get a special snowflake ruleing despite the same wording. nor do other similar negative auras such as mindlock.

It's a moot point since 9th edition now explicitly spells out what is and isn't an aura. Until things get updated, the stratagem now only works on things specifically stated to be Auras.