Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/07/28 22:40:26


Post by: broxus


So with the new points changes which chapters and units came Out the best?

My top 3 biggest winners:
-Inceptors 120pts is a good deal
-Assault Intercessors at 19pts are a solid buy
-terminators

My top 3 losers:
-Devastator Centurions priced out of being competitive
-Scout squads no way they are worth 14pts now
-Thunderfire Cannons

Best chapters
-Ultramarines
-Imperial Fists
-Ravenguard


What new list concepts have you developed for 9th? What are the must take units now?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/07/28 22:44:15


Post by: Insectum7


Disagree on Scouts, the ability to start the game on objectives and block out sections of the table from Reserves is going to be pretty useful. Plus, with obscuring terrain they will be easier to keep out of harms way while they're accomplishing those goals as well.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/07/29 02:49:56


Post by: broxus


What other units are good for SMs in 9th?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/11 21:45:49


Post by: VirtualJiva


I just started with Indomitus as a marine player (Have been playing Adeptus Mechanicus since their release) and am really liking Infiltrators. 12" DS deny bubble is huge as it will delay any charge onto objectives on your side of the field which is how a good chunk of armies probably plan on getting that far for secondaries. I plan to build into Raven gaurd too. So 2 minimum squads with increased durability protecting my turf seems absolutely awesome.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/11 22:06:47


Post by: DanielFM


broxus wrote:
So with the new points changes which chapters and units came Out the best?

My top 3 biggest winners:
-Inceptors 120pts is a good deal
-Assault Intercessors at 19pts are a solid buy
-terminators

My top 3 losers:
-Devastator Centurions priced out of being competitive
-Scout squads no way they are worth 14pts now
-Thunderfire Cannons

Best chapters
-Ultramarines
-Imperial Fists
-Ravenguard


What new list concepts have you developed for 9th? What are the must take units now?


Replace Imperial Fists with White Scars.
Imperial Fists got nerfed by fully random first turn and more LoS blocking scenery (ruining Super Doctrine turn), plus overcosted Heavy Bolter Centurions and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.

Meanwhile, White Scars got a lot of good close combat units to use their Super Doctrine.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/11 23:02:23


Post by: bort


Infiltrators and White scars are both on my list of things where I waffle between thinking they're awesome and thinking they're overkill.

Infiltrators deployed in a line can single-handedly zone out just shy of an entire table quarter, which is pretty darn nice...Unless you planned to have other stuff taking up space in that table quarter anyways in which case you didn't need that extra bubble.

And White Scars have hyper mobility in an edition all about moving onto objective points. But, from all the bat reps I've seen, even slow armies do not seem to have much issue reaching objectives, so outside of threatening that turn 1 charge (when your doctrine isn't active yet) I'm kinda unsure having like 20" movement on all your units does enough for you to be worth giving up other chapter bonuses.


I'd also add Salamanders to the winners list. They're undeniably better and if they're not still too slow then they got crazy good.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/11 23:20:39


Post by: Galef


Given the way objectives are claimed in many missions now, I'd put 5 Incursors with Haywire mines on the list.
They can deploy directly on midfield objectives and they boobie trap them with their mine. All for 15pts more then 5 Intercessors.

-


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/12 00:27:09


Post by: broxus


That sounds like it could be a good tactic. I’m really loving Aggressors and Incursors. Lots of dakka for my IF army.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/12 02:59:31


Post by: H.B.M.C.


DanielFM wrote:
... and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.
Where did it go?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/12 04:41:35


Post by: Neophyte2012


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
DanielFM wrote:
... and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.
Where did it go?


Rumored that all Space Marine special detachments from Vigilus are no longer legal in tournament. So you can consider the Siege Breaker Cohorts are technically removed from Warhammer 40k.

Of course, if you play casual game against your friends who brings Imperial Knight or Chaos Knight or 3 Lords of Skulls, and agrees you to use that detachment, you can still do wonder with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Disagree on Scouts, the ability to start the game on objectives and block out sections of the table from Reserves is going to be pretty useful. Plus, with obscuring terrain they will be easier to keep out of harms way while they're accomplishing those goals as well.


I think it would be better to use Infiltrators (Ultramarine, Ironhand, Imperial Fist, etc.) or Incursors (White Scars, Blood Angels and Space Wolves) for that job. They are twice as tough to Scouts, has other special rules and CAN claim that mid-filed objectives much longer to keep your banner raised high under enemy firepower or chargers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
broxus wrote:
What other units are good for SMs in 9th?


Probably Grav Cannon Devastators in Droppods, anything Primaris that can infiltrate, the Outriders, and the "new melta rifle guys".


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/12 05:06:41


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


Just saw a video preview of the ATV and turrets, the ATV looks super strong. With that change to Multimeltas, anything that can wield one will be amazing antitank, points allowing. (change is supposed to be 2 shots and at half range d6+2 damage instead of 2d6 discard lower)


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/12 06:27:12


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
DanielFM wrote:
... and loss of Siege Breaker Cohort.
Where did it go?


vigilus specialist detachments are not tourny legal thus people are inclined to note use em *shrugs*


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/12 06:48:43


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Not tournament legal.

Something people tend to misinterpret as meaning not matched play legal, which is of course a complete falsehood.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 04:31:46


Post by: broxus


So what do people think of the new weapon profiles? I am personally glad to see less random damage weapons.


Also, 2 wound baby space marines? Wow that is game changing!


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 05:04:31


Post by: XeonDragon


Really groovy units:

Infiltrators - especially with smaller battle fields
Inceptors (plasma)
Grav-devs
Terminators
Eradicators
Razorbacks
Scouts

Nerfed:

Centurions
Thunderfire

Jury-is-out:

Whirlwinds
Hell Blasters (depends in plasma overheat rule goes to natural ones)
Tactical marines (if they go to 2 wounds, and points gap to intercessors remains the same, then I think that makes them very, very good).




9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 05:23:16


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


I don't believe in 2w squat marines until i hold the book. My little heart couldn't handle it.
Terminators with cyclones will be the new hotness, grav drop pods will still be great.
I don't even see the Eradicators as good anymore, with ATVs being so cheap, fast and durable with a 2 shot multimelta. Hell even devastator squads might be a thing with multimeltas out of rhinos or razorbacks.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 05:58:28


Post by: Arko


 XeonDragon wrote:
Really groovy units:

Infiltrators - especially with smaller battle fields
Inceptors
Grav-devs
Terminators
Eradicators
Razorbacks
Scouts

Nerfed:

Centurions
Thunderfire

Jury-is-out:

Whirlwinds
Hell Blasters (depends in plasma overheat rule goes to natural ones)
Tactical marines (if they go to 2 wounds, and points gap to intercessors remains the same, then I think that makes them very, very good).



Inceptors plasma or bolter?

I think only Veterans and such will get 2W for old marines, but I may be wrong.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 13:21:50


Post by: DanielFM


H.B.M.C. wrote:Not tournament legal.

Something people tend to misinterpret as meaning not matched play legal, which is of course a complete falsehood.


Most people who play tournaments like to play "casual" matched games under the same restrictions, in order to not grow weird habits and to train to use their lists. In my environment, that's pretty much like saying Grand Tournament rules are matched rules.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:I don't believe in 2w squat marines until i hold the book. My little heart couldn't handle it.
Terminators with cyclones will be the new hotness, grav drop pods will still be great.
I don't even see the Eradicators as good anymore, with ATVs being so cheap, fast and durable with a 2 shot multimelta. Hell even devastator squads might be a thing with multimeltas out of rhinos or razorbacks.

An ATV with multimelta is 85, 3 Eradicators are 120. Thus, 120 points shoot as well as 165. The ATVs only give mobility and wounds, while costing a lot more.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 14:30:32


Post by: Azuza001


I agree with white scars being amazing now. I have been working on scars for a few months, and then the army doctrine changed making them quite good. T3 and on all of their units become a threat against anyone. All attacks at least ap-1 2dmg flat? Ugh.


The biggest problem with trying to do a tactics thread of any relative value for marines at this point its we already know the new codex will bring major changes to almost everything as far as we can tell at this point. Personally i hope tacticals stay 1w, I wouldn't like what 2w tacticals and 3w primaris would mean to the game as a whole.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 15:30:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


DanielFM wrote:
Most people who play tournaments like to play "casual" matched games under the same restrictions, in order to not grow weird habits and to train to use their lists. In my environment, that's pretty much like saying Grand Tournament rules are matched rules.
Goody for them, but tournament rules are not the matched play rules. Just because they "practice" under those restrictions doesn't change the matched play rules for everyone else.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 17:18:01


Post by: bort


“All fully fledged Space Marines” Wonder if this means Scouts will stay 1W? Thematically I like that, though for tabletop purposes it’ll probably mean dumping Scouts/Scout Bikes unless you really really need that scout deploy without justing paying for an Incursor.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/13 17:23:20


Post by: Orodhen


bort wrote:
“All fully fledged Space Marines” Wonder if this means Scouts will stay 1W? Thematically I like that, though for tabletop purposes it’ll probably mean dumping Scouts/Scout Bikes unless you really really need that scout deploy without justing paying for an Incursor.


Scouts will likely stay at the same points cost. So they will be a cheaper Troop alternative.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 00:00:40


Post by: XeonDragon


 Arko wrote:
 XeonDragon wrote:
Really groovy units:

Infiltrators - especially with smaller battle fields
Inceptors
Grav-devs
Terminators
Eradicators
Razorbacks
Scouts

Nerfed:

Centurions
Thunderfire

Jury-is-out:

Whirlwinds
Hell Blasters (depends in plasma overheat rule goes to natural ones)
Tactical marines (if they go to 2 wounds, and points gap to intercessors remains the same, then I think that makes them very, very good).



Inceptors plasma or bolter?

I think only Veterans and such will get 2W for old marines, but I may be wrong.


I meant plasma inceptors. Edited to fix. Now that 2W old marines are confirmed, it makes a 100-point intercessor squad vs 100-point tactical marine (e.g. 4 x 18 point tacticals + 1 x 18-point sergeant with a combi-plasma) an more nuanced choice


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 00:03:44


Post by: McGibs


I wonder if Inceptor Assault Bolters will make the jump to 2 damage (they are sawed off heavybolters after all), in which case the distinction between the two becomes much harder.
Plasma inceptors pretty much require a source of rerolls or they'll melt themselves. Bolt inceptors can be a bit more free-range.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 00:58:52


Post by: XeonDragon


 McGibs wrote:
I wonder if Inceptor Assault Bolters will make the jump to 2 damage (they are sawed off heavybolters after all), in which case the distinction between the two becomes much harder.
Plasma inceptors pretty much require a source of rerolls or they'll melt themselves. Bolt inceptors can be a bit more free-range.


Yeah, interesting. Personally, when I use plasma inceptors I try and not overcharge. When I build my lists and do my mathhammer, I always plug in basic plasma not overcharged. My view is that if the plasma version of a unit stacks up from a points-per-point of a damage inflicted perspective without overcharging, it is worth taking. If not, it isn't.

D2 assault bolters would shift things I think.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 01:50:02


Post by: BrianDavion


So here's a thought, with the 2 wounds buff... right now tac marines and grey hunters are the same points cost. if that remains the case.. suddenly Grey Hunters are going to be amazing, being basicly cheaper intercessors with out the AP -1 rifles.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 03:17:12


Post by: Azuza001


I mean... grey hunters are already amazing as they compared to tactical marines so.... yes? Lol.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 03:41:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 McGibs wrote:
I wonder if Inceptor Assault Bolters will make the jump to 2 damage (they are sawed off heavybolters after all), in which case the distinction between the two becomes much harder.
The new Codex is going to introduce Heavy Intercessors, armed with Heavy Bolt Rifles. I suspect that's where we'll see that change.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 03:46:50


Post by: ultimentra


I thought we agreed that we would not be starting this new thread until the new dex is out?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/14 05:30:30


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I think what will suck about all these nice new changes will be GW's ineptitude when it comes to working out how much they should cost.

Using Multi-Meltas as the prime example, right now they're not worth the points. At Heavy 2, suddenly very much worth the costs. Now put this through the GW balancing lens and you get something along the lines of...

GW Rules Writer #1: Boy. No one takes Multi-Meltas.
GW Rules Writer #2: Maybe we should make them better.
GWRW#1: Give 'em two shots each? That'd make 'em worth their points for sure.
GWRW#2: That sounds great. Let's do that.
GWRW#1: OMG! MM's fire 2 shots each now!
GWRW#2: You're right, we'd better put the points up!

It's an endless struggle with those well-meaning but rather hapless writers. They have such short-termed memories that they'll forget why they made something powerful, and ruin what they changed by repeating the same problems.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/16 04:52:08


Post by: broxus


We will see. I think they may go up slightly, so long as the points increase is no more than 5pts. If they raise the cost of a heavy bolter to 20-25pts it will remain useless.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/17 04:15:35


Post by: Lemondish


broxus wrote:
We will see. I think they may go up slightly, so long as the points increase is no more than 5pts. If they raise the cost of a heavy bolter to 20-25pts it will remain useless.


I imagine the plan originally wasn't to have the new codexes delayed the way they are, so I wouldn't be surprised if the points in the MFM are for the new version. The 30 point twin HB makes so much sense now. Same with 25 point MM.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/17 12:28:00


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Lemondish wrote:
The 30 point twin HB makes so much sense now. Same with 25 point MM.
Unfortunately you're using logic. Logic doesn't apply when GW are pricing things.

There's an even to very good chance that the person who ends up (or ended up, given the book was likely completed ages ago) writing the points for the Heavy Bolter in the Marine 'Dex either:

1. Doesn't know about the new points cost and just pulls a new one, potentially higher or lower, from out of the thin air.
2. Sees the current cost, goes "OMG! The HB is so powerful now!", and puts the cost up further, not realising that it already got a points bump a few months prior.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/17 19:15:03


Post by: footfoe


I'm surprised to see blade guard vets in all the top marine lists.

I was sleeping on them because of their awkward unit size, guess they would help out a lot in the mirror cutting down standard primaris.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/17 21:11:34


Post by: Lemondish


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
The 30 point twin HB makes so much sense now. Same with 25 point MM.
Unfortunately you're using logic. Logic doesn't apply when GW are pricing things.

There's an even to very good chance that the person who ends up (or ended up, given the book was likely completed ages ago) writing the points for the Heavy Bolter in the Marine 'Dex either:

1. Doesn't know about the new points cost and just pulls a new one, potentially higher or lower, from out of the thin air.
2. Sees the current cost, goes "OMG! The HB is so powerful now!", and puts the cost up further, not realising that it already got a points bump a few months prior.



"HAHA DAE GW NO LOGIC AMIRITE?"

This is getting old, man.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/17 22:56:43


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Doesn't make me wrong...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/17 23:43:22


Post by: Blood Hawk


footfoe wrote:
I'm surprised to see blade guard vets in all the top marine lists.

I was sleeping on them because of their awkward unit size, guess they would help out a lot in the mirror cutting down standard primaris.

I have had good success with them so far. They can toe to toe with other elite melee and hold their own.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/18 01:18:42


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Who's the bright spark who thought Hellblasters should go to 8PL?

Screws up the Crusade lists I had made...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/18 05:32:35


Post by: Lemondish


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who's the bright spark who thought Hellblasters should go to 8PL?

Screws up the Crusade lists I had made...


Oof that's a good point. I'm so hoping for an upgrade or two to hit that unit, especially the heavy options given how freaking cool they look lol


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/18 13:25:24


Post by: schadenfreude


broxus wrote:
So with the new points changes which chapters and units came Out the best?

My top 3 biggest winners:
-Inceptors 120pts is a good deal
-Assault Intercessors at 19pts are a solid buy
-terminators

My top 3 losers:
-Devastator Centurions priced out of being competitive
-Scout squads no way they are worth 14pts now
-Thunderfire Cannons

Best chapters
-Ultramarines
-Imperial Fists
-Ravenguard


What new list concepts have you developed for 9th? What are the must take units now?


14 point scouts are not competitive.
14 point scouts with 2W are competitive

If all marines go to 2W the meta will be marine dominated making 2W weapons the big winner.

White scars will have the ideal marine killing doctrine.

Tactical and scout squads with a heavy bolter will be a solid choice.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/18 15:42:59


Post by: Lemondish


 schadenfreude wrote:
broxus wrote:
So with the new points changes which chapters and units came Out the best?

My top 3 biggest winners:
-Inceptors 120pts is a good deal
-Assault Intercessors at 19pts are a solid buy
-terminators

My top 3 losers:
-Devastator Centurions priced out of being competitive
-Scout squads no way they are worth 14pts now
-Thunderfire Cannons

Best chapters
-Ultramarines
-Imperial Fists
-Ravenguard


What new list concepts have you developed for 9th? What are the must take units now?


14 point scouts are not competitive.
14 point scouts with 2W are competitive

If all marines go to 2W the meta will be marine dominated making 2W weapons the big winner.

White scars will have the ideal marine killing doctrine.

Tactical and scout squads with a heavy bolter will be a solid choice.


The funny part about this is that the meta has been 2W marine dominated for a little while now before the world ended.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 00:13:36


Post by: footfoe


Just as a melee beat stick hanging out in an impulsor, would you prefer the indominus captain, or a captain with power fist and plasma pistol?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 00:28:54


Post by: IanVanCheese


 schadenfreude wrote:

14 point scouts are not competitive.
14 point scouts with 2W are competitive


The wording was all fully fledged space marines going to 2W. I think scouts are staying 1W.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 00:30:20


Post by: Nevelon


footfoe wrote:
Just as a melee beat stick hanging out in an impulsor, would you prefer the indominus captain, or a captain with power fist and plasma pistol?


The Indomitus captain’s MC sword should do a good job mulching primaris equivalents. Power fist has a higher S and can deal with harder targets. Relic shield is a nice boost to survivability. WL traits and relics can also play a major factor and be taken into consideration.

In a vacuum, I’d go with the sword and board. He’s killy enough, and the shield gives him an edge vs. a number of things. The fist captain isn’t bad. Kitbashing one is on my to-do list.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 11:41:42


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, I'm looking for the old-school Marines getting 2W.
Then my pick will be Tacticals in Razorbacks in the first place.
No Primaris please.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 11:46:25


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm looking for the old-school Marines getting 2W.
Then my pick will be Tacticals in Razorbacks in the first place.
No Primaris please.


Primaris get an extra attack, AP -1 and 6" of range for 2 more pts per model. Tacticals therefor get specials, combis and heavies. It's not that easy a choice actually. Once we get the book we can do the maths, right now this seems to be jumping to conclusions to me.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 11:53:00


Post by: wuestenfux


Cpt. Icanus wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm looking for the old-school Marines getting 2W.
Then my pick will be Tacticals in Razorbacks in the first place.
No Primaris please.


Primaris get an extra attack, AP -1 and 6" of range for 2 more pts per model. Tacticals therefor get specials, combis and heavies. It's not that easy a choice actually. Once we get the book we can do the maths, right now this seems to be jumping to conclusions to me.

Right.
Extra attack is not an issue as my tactics with Marines is to keep the enemy at arm's length if possible.
And I'm missing the special / heavy weapons for Primaris.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 21:05:45


Post by: Razerous


I'm thinking about Melee captains, previously they had jump packs however now I'm seeing biker captains.

Can anyone explain why or the difference? Or do they perform different roles?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 21:08:23


Post by: Sterling191


Razerous wrote:
I'm thinking about Melee captains, previously they had jump packs however now I'm seeing biker captains.

Can anyone explain why or the difference? Or do they perform different roles?


Salamanders have a specific configuration that makes a Bike captain effectively unkillable.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 21:12:29


Post by: Razerous


Sterling191 wrote:
Razerous wrote:
I'm thinking about Melee captains, previously they had jump packs however now I'm seeing biker captains.

Can anyone explain why or the difference? Or do they perform different roles?


Salamanders have a specific configuration that makes a Bike captain effectively unkillable.
Oo pray tell? How unkillable??


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 21:16:48


Post by: Sterling191


Razerous wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Razerous wrote:
I'm thinking about Melee captains, previously they had jump packs however now I'm seeing biker captains.

Can anyone explain why or the difference? Or do they perform different roles?


Salamanders have a specific configuration that makes a Bike captain effectively unkillable.
Oo pray tell? How unkillable??


T7 with a permanent -1 to wound behind a 3++/5+++ and character protection.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/19 21:25:57


Post by: Blood Hawk


Razerous wrote:
I'm thinking about Melee captains, previously they had jump packs however now I'm seeing biker captains.

Can anyone explain why or the difference? Or do they perform different roles?

They essentially preform the same role. Between nerfs to planes, objectives not being allowed to be on terrain and the 5" vertical engage range bikes are a lot better by comparison. You also get the bonus toughness and wound which helps.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/20 03:31:55


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Blood Hawk wrote:
Razerous wrote:
I'm thinking about Melee captains, previously they had jump packs however now I'm seeing biker captains.

Can anyone explain why or the difference? Or do they perform different roles?

They essentially preform the same role. Between nerfs to planes, objectives not being allowed to be on terrain and the 5" vertical engage range bikes are a lot better by comparison. You also get the bonus toughness and wound which helps.


It's a tough call between the two, bikers actually move faster, but JP Cpt. allows you to jump directly over a large piece of ruin or obstacle, while biker Cpt. need to drive around it.

On the other hand, if you are White Scar, then this is not a problem, just take that relic bike and you get both benefit.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/20 03:52:27


Post by: tneva82


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not tournament legal.

Something people tend to misinterpret as meaning not matched play legal, which is of course a complete falsehood.


Rule of 3 was suggestion for tournaments. Saw many 8ed games without it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lemondish wrote:
broxus wrote:
We will see. I think they may go up slightly, so long as the points increase is no more than 5pts. If they raise the cost of a heavy bolter to 20-25pts it will remain useless.


I imagine the plan originally wasn't to have the new codexes delayed the way they are, so I wouldn't be surprised if the points in the MFM are for the new version. The 30 point twin HB makes so much sense now. Same with 25 point MM.


The point costs for mfm and codexes were set before covid so to do like that would show gw designers would be seriously incompetent with zero idea of game design basics...which albeit is not that unlikely.

If they have even slight pretence of professionalism point values are value now rather than in future. Tac's aren't 18 in mfm either. Would be silly to have weapons be based on future stats.

Then again we are talking about gw where shouting waaagh in interview counts more than talent.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/20 04:17:45


Post by: Lemondish


That's some mighty thin conspiracy theory bs there, mate.

But I can see you just have an axe to grind. Need a hug?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/20 07:26:01


Post by: BrianDavion


 wuestenfux wrote:
Cpt. Icanus wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm looking for the old-school Marines getting 2W.
Then my pick will be Tacticals in Razorbacks in the first place.
No Primaris please.


Primaris get an extra attack, AP -1 and 6" of range for 2 more pts per model. Tacticals therefor get specials, combis and heavies. It's not that easy a choice actually. Once we get the book we can do the maths, right now this seems to be jumping to conclusions to me.

Right.
Extra attack is not an issue as my tactics with Marines is to keep the enemy at arm's length if possible.
And I'm missing the special / heavy weapons for Primaris.


I'm thinking that extra attack'll be more or less valuable depending on your chapter. WS and BA's will benifit from having intercessors due to their chapter abilty favoring close combat. (space wolves might actually want to take first born over intercessorsby virtue of a -1 AP on GH chainswords)


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/20 11:01:37


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


Yeah, i'm playing Black Templars with a slight emphasis on melee. By the time i'm in assault doctrine i want my I tercessors stuck in to profit from the super doctrine. That extra attack gets additional value there. That's what i mean though, up until now Primaris were just plain better. Now not so much, it's an actual decission to make (outside taste and nostalgia).


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/21 00:00:51


Post by: H.B.M.C.


tneva82 wrote:
Rule of 3 was suggestion for tournaments. Saw many 8ed games without it?
In no way contradicts my point.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/25 20:48:45


Post by: rockyandadrianaaa


Why I see people running 10 infiltrators/incursor in their WS list, can someone explain me how do they work on field?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/25 21:07:36


Post by: Sterling191


rockyandadrianaaa wrote:
Why I see people running 10 infiltrators/incursor in their WS list, can someone explain me how do they work on field?


Board control. Their job isnt primarily to kill things, its to start out in places where they *must* be removed, and if theyre not then they will rack up (or prevent) VP scoring, while potentially being a hassle and annoyance the entire game. Infiltrators specifically are used more for their anti-deep strike aura, which blocks off huge swathes of the table.

Keeping your opponent bottled up in their DZ for a turn or two is more than worth the 200 points you spend on those ten Primaris.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/25 21:49:36


Post by: Insularum


Sterling191 wrote:
rockyandadrianaaa wrote:
Why I see people running 10 infiltrators/incursor in their WS list, can someone explain me how do they work on field?


Board control. Their job isnt primarily to kill things, its to start out in places where they *must* be removed, and if theyre not then they will rack up (or prevent) VP scoring, while potentially being a hassle and annoyance the entire game. Infiltrators specifically are used more for their anti-deep strike aura, which blocks off huge swathes of the table.

Keeping your opponent bottled up in their DZ for a turn or two is more than worth the 200 points you spend on those ten Primaris.
WS phobos infantry work really well with obscuration discipline powers, shrouding can protect a big unit of phobos, who can then temporal corridor across the board into a fight once deep strike threats have passed.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/28 04:21:33


Post by: hellpato


Here a Raven Guards player here.
How do you use them now.
I playing in an ultra greasy competitive league and my MVP Eraticators doen't trigger mortal wound on 4, mean they are less scary than ever.

Any good tips.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/28 07:02:42


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, I'm eager to see the changes made by the new SM codex and its supplements for several chapters.
It will be interesting to see in which direction the codex will move - even more powerful builds or some leveling.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/28 18:15:52


Post by: Razerous


What does the successor chapter trait "Stealthy" do? Specifically in 9th.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/28 19:39:31


Post by: Blood Hawk


hellpato wrote:Here a Raven Guards player here.
How do you use them now.
I playing in an ultra greasy competitive league and my MVP Eraticators doen't trigger mortal wound on 4, mean they are less scary than ever.

Any good tips.

I think you are still best off going successor with Master Artisan and either Stealthy or Long Range Marksmen. I don't think assault centurions are worth it at this point but aggressors with flamers are a really good target for Master of Ambush.

I have been using my Eradicators as suicide melta squads with strike from the shadows. With Master Artisan they don't really need support and it is very hard to screen from 24" meltas. I take 2 squads and put them in reserve. They will melt any mutliwound targets without an inv rather nicely just watch out for stuff like Forewarned.

Other than that I have found bikes, phobos units and FW dreads (Relic contemptors and leviathans) to be good regardless of chapter. Most of the stuff from indomitus is good. The captain is great with the burning blade. He is also a solid master of ambush. The bladeguard can be fun with advance and charge which RG get from the swift and deadly warlord trait. Outriders are solid. The lieutenant from indomitus actually has an inv which is nice. I am not 100% sold on the Judiciar myself or the new ancient.

Razerous wrote:What does the successor chapter trait "Stealthy" do? Specifically in 9th.

It gives you light cover if the enemy is beyond 12". The Rare Rules section of the rulebook goes into more detail (page 89 of CA 2020).


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/28 22:51:30


Post by: hellpato


 Blood Hawk wrote:
hellpato wrote:Here a Raven Guards player here.
How do you use them now.
I playing in an ultra greasy competitive league and my MVP Eraticators doen't trigger mortal wound on 4, mean they are less scary than ever.

Any good tips.

I think you are still best off going successor with Master Artisan and either Stealthy or Long Range Marksmen. I don't think assault centurions are worth it at this point but aggressors with flamers are a really good target for Master of Ambush.

I have been using my Eradicators as suicide melta squads with strike from the shadows. With Master Artisan they don't really need support and it is very hard to screen from 24" meltas. I take 2 squads and put them in reserve. They will melt any mutliwound targets without an inv rather nicely just watch out for stuff like Forewarned.

Other than that I have found bikes, phobos units and FW dreads (Relic contemptors and leviathans) to be good regardless of chapter. Most of the stuff from indomitus is good. The captain is great with the burning blade. He is also a solid master of ambush. The bladeguard can be fun with advance and charge which RG get from the swift and deadly warlord trait. Outriders are solid. The lieutenant from indomitus actually has an inv which is nice. I am not 100% sold on the Judiciar myself or the new ancient.

Razerous wrote:What does the successor chapter trait "Stealthy" do? Specifically in 9th.

It gives you light cover if the enemy is beyond 12". The Rare Rules section of the rulebook goes into more detail (page 89 of CA 2020).


sorry it was not the eradicator but eliminators who trigger mortal wound on 4+.... my head was on eradicaror because i was thinking of what they can do.

i got 2 Derederos dread and in tactical phase the +1 to it and wound are very fun again single caracters a little too far away. For now i need to relearn the game and how to play RG


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/29 00:15:19


Post by: Lemondish


 Blood Hawk wrote:


Razerous wrote:What does the successor chapter trait "Stealthy" do? Specifically in 9th.

It gives you light cover if the enemy is beyond 12". The Rare Rules section of the rulebook goes into more detail (page 89 of CA 2020).


Be prepared for the value of Stealthy to drop a bit. The Raven Guard Chapter Tactic (which includes Stealthy as one half of the rule) is changing in the 9th edition codex. It now provides the benefit of light cover against attacks from over 18" away and Infantry units gain dense cover if entirely on or within a terrain feature against attacks more than 12" away. This results in the loss of 6" on the automatic cover in an edition where you were already likely to lose it given how much more aggressive. You need to be on objectives, so this is going to be a major change up for preferred successor chapter tactics.

Master Artisans is also going to see a bit of a nerf.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/29 05:10:48


Post by: hellpato


Lemondish wrote:
 Blood Hawk wrote:


Razerous wrote:What does the successor chapter trait "Stealthy" do? Specifically in 9th.

It gives you light cover if the enemy is beyond 12". The Rare Rules section of the rulebook goes into more detail (page 89 of CA 2020).


Be prepared for the value of Stealthy to drop a bit. The Raven Guard Chapter Tactic (which includes Stealthy as one half of the rule) is changing in the 9th edition codex. It now provides the benefit of light cover against attacks from over 18" away and Infantry units gain dense cover if entirely on or within a terrain feature against attacks more than 12" away. This results in the loss of 6" on the automatic cover in an edition where you were already likely to lose it given how much more aggressive. You need to be on objectives, so this is going to be a major change up for preferred successor chapter tactics.

Master Artisans is also going to see a bit of a nerf.


Wow. They need to revamp RG because I don’t see why I should play them when you remove all the little bits of bonus. They will be a generic SM.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/29 08:19:19


Post by: BrianDavion


 hellpato wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
 Blood Hawk wrote:


Razerous wrote:What does the successor chapter trait "Stealthy" do? Specifically in 9th.

It gives you light cover if the enemy is beyond 12". The Rare Rules section of the rulebook goes into more detail (page 89 of CA 2020).


Be prepared for the value of Stealthy to drop a bit. The Raven Guard Chapter Tactic (which includes Stealthy as one half of the rule) is changing in the 9th edition codex. It now provides the benefit of light cover against attacks from over 18" away and Infantry units gain dense cover if entirely on or within a terrain feature against attacks more than 12" away. This results in the loss of 6" on the automatic cover in an edition where you were already likely to lose it given how much more aggressive. You need to be on objectives, so this is going to be a major change up for preferred successor chapter tactics.

Master Artisans is also going to see a bit of a nerf.


Wow. They need to revamp RG because I don’t see why I should play them when you remove all the little bits of bonus. They will be a generic SM.


they're still a damn solid chapter man.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/30 00:05:29


Post by: Azuza001


agreed, ravenguard is still a great chapter. I played a 2000 pt game today, ran the following list.

Spoiler:



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [96 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of extra Relics

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts]

+ HQ +

Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 100pts]: Camo cloak, Korvidari Bolts, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine

Kayvaan Shrike [7 PL, 135pts]

Lieutenants in Phobos Armour [4 PL, 80pts]
. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Ex Tenebris
. . Occulus Bolt Carbine and Bolt Pistol: Grav-chute

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 240pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Flamestorm Gauntlets

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin ironhail autocannon

Judiciar [4 PL, 85pts]: Master of Ambush, Master-Crafted Weapon, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Grav-chute

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Grav-chute

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Instigator Bolt Carbine
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Instigator Bolt Carbine
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil

Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]: Eradicator Sgt
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

++ Total: [96 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




Played vs another marine force, a successor chapter of ravenguard. I dont remember everything he had but things of note...

2 x Impulsor with 4++
Repulsor with twin las
2 x 5 hellblasters
Indominus lieutenant
Indominus captain
2 x tactical warsuits with autocannons

Game was over end of t2, one of the quickest games I have played of 9th. My eliminators killed one warsuit pretty much on their own (t1 they both hit and wounded and zeroed the guy to 1w which my own warsuit finished off) deep striking the Eradicators using ravenguard strat dropped the repulsor from full health to 1w (which an Aggressor with 1w left finished off in cc), the Judicar got the Aggressors into position to help protect the troops on the 2nd middle objective. The lieutenant and the captain did 2w to the Indominus lieutenant, which then died to a warsuit exploding.... they also killed 4 intercessors hiding in cover which did no good to them. Then shrike charged a squad of Incursors and wiped them out.


My point to all of this? Only ravenguard could get the aggressors up the field t1 so easily. Only ravenguard could easily ds the Eradicators so they were in the right place at the right time. Only ravenguard could get the captain and lieutenant to be such effective snipers / elite hunters. And only ravenguard has shrike. True others can hit just as hard as shrike but Shrike is a pretty damn cost effective for a chapter master. Heck just being in cover outside of 12" helped keep things alive.

So yeah, ravenguard are still a damn good chapter to use. You just have to maximize their strengths.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/30 23:43:23


Post by: Sluggaloo


Why is this thread a thing? Codex isn't out yet, points will likely change, rules will be altered, stats bumped.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/31 00:29:43


Post by: Lemondish


 Sluggaloo wrote:
Why is this thread a thing? Codex isn't out yet, points will likely change, rules will be altered, stats bumped.


Because 9th edition games will happen whether or not a new codex has released?

Not that hard to understand.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/31 20:09:14


Post by: zantio


What about the incoming 2w veterana with jumpack..hammer and shield


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/08/31 20:19:37


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Do we think the “Indomitus” captain and lieutenant will have specific keywords like the “Phobos” ones did (maybe “Bladeguard”) Or will they just be models to represent new equipment for the generic Primaris captain and lieutenant?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/01 14:18:16


Post by: jpwyrm


Azuza001 wrote:
agreed, ravenguard is still a great chapter. I played a 2000 pt game today, ran the following list.

Spoiler:



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [96 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of extra Relics

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts]

+ HQ +

Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 100pts]: Camo cloak, Korvidari Bolts, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine

Kayvaan Shrike [7 PL, 135pts]

Lieutenants in Phobos Armour [4 PL, 80pts]
. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Ex Tenebris
. . Occulus Bolt Carbine and Bolt Pistol: Grav-chute

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 240pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Flamestorm Gauntlets

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin ironhail autocannon

Judiciar [4 PL, 85pts]: Master of Ambush, Master-Crafted Weapon, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Grav-chute

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Grav-chute

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Instigator Bolt Carbine
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Instigator Bolt Carbine
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil

Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]: Eradicator Sgt
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

++ Total: [96 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




Played vs another marine force, a successor chapter of ravenguard. I dont remember everything he had but things of note...

2 x Impulsor with 4++
Repulsor with twin las
2 x 5 hellblasters
Indominus lieutenant
Indominus captain
2 x tactical warsuits with autocannons

Game was over end of t2, one of the quickest games I have played of 9th. My eliminators killed one warsuit pretty much on their own (t1 they both hit and wounded and zeroed the guy to 1w which my own warsuit finished off) deep striking the Eradicators using ravenguard strat dropped the repulsor from full health to 1w (which an Aggressor with 1w left finished off in cc), the Judicar got the Aggressors into position to help protect the troops on the 2nd middle objective. The lieutenant and the captain did 2w to the Indominus lieutenant, which then died to a warsuit exploding.... they also killed 4 intercessors hiding in cover which did no good to them. Then shrike charged a squad of Incursors and wiped them out.


My point to all of this? Only ravenguard could get the aggressors up the field t1 so easily. Only ravenguard could easily ds the Eradicators so they were in the right place at the right time. Only ravenguard could get the captain and lieutenant to be such effective snipers / elite hunters. And only ravenguard has shrike. True others can hit just as hard as shrike but Shrike is a pretty damn cost effective for a chapter master. Heck just being in cover outside of 12" helped keep things alive.

So yeah, ravenguard are still a damn good chapter to use. You just have to maximize their strengths.



I totally agree with you here. The Space Marines units are (at the moment at least) quite powerful and efficient on their own. We are better served with Chapter Tactics that mitigate our best unit's shortcomings, like speed for Aggressors/Bladeguard/Centurion with movement or deployement stratagems, or that increase their durability. Let's face it, a unit of Eradicators won't need much help to nuke a given target, so it is way more helpful to boost their durability so they can continue to nuke stuff than add an extra dmg or AP on top of their already impressive output.

@Azuza001 : I'm curious about the Instigator carbine on your Elminator Sergeant. Did you ever missed the extra Lasfusil? Are you always using the Sergeant's ability to boos hit and wound rolls? Also, is the different loadout on the Warsuit intentionnal or does it reflects how your models are built?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/01 15:28:46


Post by: broxus


What do people think about Imperial Fists in 9th edition? So far they seem to be hands down the weakest Space Marine chapter. Their chapter trait is meh since the nerf and their strategems, warlord traits, and psychic powers are horrible when compared to any other chapter.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/02 15:15:58


Post by: spiralingcadaver


 Sluggaloo wrote:
Why is this thread a thing? Codex isn't out yet, points will likely change, rules will be altered, stats bumped.
+1.

Like, it's fun to talk about things, but I think that the brief window while late 8th marines play in 9 after the major stat change previews we've seen don't amount to much.

Without knowing basic stuff like points or chapter tactics, and when unit price or one special rule can easily shift things between weak and OP (see: evolution of Marines over 8th), any speculation involves a lot of assuming things will stay basically the same. GW, who aren't exactly known for their precision, might turn this into a year of scouts or missile launchers or some stratagem that doesn't exist yet shaping how Marine lists are built.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/02 16:50:16


Post by: Azuza001


 jpwyrm wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
agreed, ravenguard is still a great chapter. I played a 2000 pt game today, ran the following list.

Spoiler:



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [96 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of extra Relics

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts]

+ HQ +

Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 100pts]: Camo cloak, Korvidari Bolts, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine

Kayvaan Shrike [7 PL, 135pts]

Lieutenants in Phobos Armour [4 PL, 80pts]
. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Ex Tenebris
. . Occulus Bolt Carbine and Bolt Pistol: Grav-chute

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 125pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 240pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Flamestorm Gauntlets

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 165pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin ironhail autocannon

Judiciar [4 PL, 85pts]: Master of Ambush, Master-Crafted Weapon, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Grav-chute

Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Grav-chute

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Instigator Bolt Carbine
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Instigator Bolt Carbine
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. Eliminator with Las Fusil: Camo cloak, Las Fusil

Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]: Eradicator Sgt
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

++ Total: [96 PL, 10CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




Played vs another marine force, a successor chapter of ravenguard. I dont remember everything he had but things of note...

2 x Impulsor with 4++
Repulsor with twin las
2 x 5 hellblasters
Indominus lieutenant
Indominus captain
2 x tactical warsuits with autocannons

Game was over end of t2, one of the quickest games I have played of 9th. My eliminators killed one warsuit pretty much on their own (t1 they both hit and wounded and zeroed the guy to 1w which my own warsuit finished off) deep striking the Eradicators using ravenguard strat dropped the repulsor from full health to 1w (which an Aggressor with 1w left finished off in cc), the Judicar got the Aggressors into position to help protect the troops on the 2nd middle objective. The lieutenant and the captain did 2w to the Indominus lieutenant, which then died to a warsuit exploding.... they also killed 4 intercessors hiding in cover which did no good to them. Then shrike charged a squad of Incursors and wiped them out.


My point to all of this? Only ravenguard could get the aggressors up the field t1 so easily. Only ravenguard could easily ds the Eradicators so they were in the right place at the right time. Only ravenguard could get the captain and lieutenant to be such effective snipers / elite hunters. And only ravenguard has shrike. True others can hit just as hard as shrike but Shrike is a pretty damn cost effective for a chapter master. Heck just being in cover outside of 12" helped keep things alive.

So yeah, ravenguard are still a damn good chapter to use. You just have to maximize their strengths.



I totally agree with you here. The Space Marines units are (at the moment at least) quite powerful and efficient on their own. We are better served with Chapter Tactics that mitigate our best unit's shortcomings, like speed for Aggressors/Bladeguard/Centurion with movement or deployement stratagems, or that increase their durability. Let's face it, a unit of Eradicators won't need much help to nuke a given target, so it is way more helpful to boost their durability so they can continue to nuke stuff than add an extra dmg or AP on top of their already impressive output.

@Azuza001 : I'm curious about the Instigator carbine on your Elminator Sergeant. Did you ever missed the extra Lasfusil? Are you always using the Sergeant's ability to boos hit and wound rolls? Also, is the different loadout on the Warsuit intentionnal or does it reflects how your models are built?



Instigator carbines are there for protection. The srgs are always using their ability to boost hit and wound, and if someone did get near enough to charge them then there is the overwatch and then move 6" to get away trick. I have used it before to huge success, turning a "i am charging both the capain and the eleminators" to "but now they are too far apart from each other, i can't make both charges now and due to 9th ed rules the charge just fails......". Trick only works on an opponent once but man.... lol.

As for the 2 warsuits loaded different, I did it on purpose. Depending on the situation and the way things shake out during deployment the one with the incidium cannon goes up front to put pressure on the opponent t1 with the aggressors (or to split the opponents focus if the aggressors go in a different direction) and the other one can either also go up for support or hang back and protect the back line with his long range auto cannons.

Any tactics that we talk about at this point is pretty much general advice since, as others have pointed out, the new codex will have a huge impact on the game. I like autocannons for example, i plan on adding another 3 supressors to my army because they have autocannons. Will they be better or worse in the next codex? Who knows. But i like them so I will run them.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/12 16:49:47


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


The new data sheet shown on the Heavy Intercessors on the preview opens up some harder hitting options for UM as they get to still move without penalty in tactical doctrine and also for the Devastator doctrine focused chapters! And all wrapped up in a 3wound T5 little suit!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus they are troops so we could have a fully gravis based infantry section to our armies now


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/12 18:05:38


Post by: Nevelon


They have the “core” keyword. Army structure changes incoming?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/12 18:24:14


Post by: bort


Obviously it all comes down to point costs, but I don't understand what niche the heavy intercessors are designed to do. Heavy intercessors are yet another platform for laying down shots that can shred infantry, just like most of the existing primaris line.

Str5 adds some nice versatility for dealing with higher T targets, especially T8, but assuming the heavy intercessor costs 30ish points, paying for that extra wound, T5, and the better gun, you've just lost 30-40% of your volume of fire vs taking regular intercessors and negated most of it. If a regular intercessor is 20, they can't be lower than say 27, right? But get into the upper 30s and the Aggressor is straight up better with the powerfists and double shot standing still.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/12 18:28:41


Post by: Sterling191


bort wrote:
Obviously it all comes down to point costs, but I don't understand what niche the heavy intercessors are designed to do. Heavy intercessors are yet another platform for laying down shots that can shred infantry, just like most of the existing primaris line.

Str5 adds some nice versatility for dealing with higher T targets, especially T8, but assuming the heavy intercessor costs 30some points, paying for that extra wound, T5, and the better gun, you've just lost 30-40% of your volume of fire vs taking regular intercessors and negated most of it.


They're objective holders, plain and simple. Park a squad in cover next to a point, and you're going to need either a dedicated melee unit or anti-tank weapons to remove them. The range of all their weapons, even the "mobile assault" loadout is all about board presence over killiness.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/12 22:04:48


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Also then frees up the other intercessor troops to move up the board to claim more objectives allowing the heavies to cover fire and then the assault intercessors to sweep in from reserve and block retreat and butcher them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An all intercessor army with vehicle support could be viable


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 08:27:53


Post by: Leth


bort wrote:
Obviously it all comes down to point costs, but I don't understand what niche the heavy intercessors are designed to do. Heavy intercessors are yet another platform for laying down shots that can shred infantry, just like most of the existing primaris line.

Str5 adds some nice versatility for dealing with higher T targets, especially T8, but assuming the heavy intercessor costs 30ish points, paying for that extra wound, T5, and the better gun, you've just lost 30-40% of your volume of fire vs taking regular intercessors and negated most of it. If a regular intercessor is 20, they can't be lower than say 27, right? But get into the upper 30s and the Aggressor is straight up better with the powerfists and double shot standing still.


The niche they fill is now someone can run an all gravis army, an all Phobos army, an all firstborn army, or an all intercessor army if they like.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 11:00:31


Post by: BrianDavion


 Leth wrote:
bort wrote:
Obviously it all comes down to point costs, but I don't understand what niche the heavy intercessors are designed to do. Heavy intercessors are yet another platform for laying down shots that can shred infantry, just like most of the existing primaris line.

Str5 adds some nice versatility for dealing with higher T targets, especially T8, but assuming the heavy intercessor costs 30ish points, paying for that extra wound, T5, and the better gun, you've just lost 30-40% of your volume of fire vs taking regular intercessors and negated most of it. If a regular intercessor is 20, they can't be lower than say 27, right? But get into the upper 30s and the Aggressor is straight up better with the powerfists and double shot standing still.


The niche they fill is now someone can run an all gravis army, an all Phobos army, an all firstborn army, or an all intercessor army if they like.


what I think GW wants to do is allow space Marines to run an army that represents any of the ten space marine companies, The Phobos line means if I want to run then 10th company I absolutely can. the assault intercessor makes it effortless for me to run an 8th company list, heavy intercessors allow me to run a 9th company list. Literally the only Space Marine company I could not play with a battalion right now is 1st company.

I agree that heavy intercessors aren't in most cases going to be that great a choice although they may be a good choice to take instead of a heavy bolter devestator squad simply to save the heavy support slot for tanks etc. but yeah the intercessors is still going to be our go to troop choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nevelon wrote:
They have the “core” keyword. Army structure changes incoming?

Could be that Defenders of Humanity and similer abilities will be re-written to grant Objective secured to all "Core" Units. this would give GW a bit of flexability if they wanted to make say.. an elite unit that was capable of taking and holding an objective like a troop. (such as vetern intercessors just to use a Marine example) it could also be used to make some troop choices NOT get objective secured, if GW decided that say.... cultists shouldn't qualify for that since they're not part of the legion proper. etc.

GW could also use it for scoring in some objectives like "this objective can only be held by a 'core' unit" etc


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 14:18:12


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


Depending on the points cost of a unit, 5 of these bad boys might be the best choice to camp the home objective while still contributing some firepower. Other than that, having more options is never a bad thing (unless you're a xenos player with 20 years old models :X )


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 14:19:01


Post by: necron99


I'm starting to see land speeder tempests showing up in sm lists. Are they being used primarily for their speed and -1 to hit/only charged by flyer advancing rule to get on objectives and table quarters, etc? Assault cannons and D3 missiles are nice but I'm not buying it.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 14:35:15


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


Why not, they're cheap for what they bring in firepower and they're quick. Even a Land Speeder with a single MM seems amazing, given the new 2 shots.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 14:49:13


Post by: necron99


Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Why not, they're cheap for what they bring in firepower and they're quick. Even a Land Speeder with a single MM seems amazing, given the new 2 shots.


Yeah, I agree, I like stock land speeders with typhoon missiles and usually run 2 in my iron hands lists. But, even though they have similar names, I think they are different beasts due to the missile stats and the advancing rule and was just curious if people were taking the tempest over stock because they fill a role outside of shooting more often then not.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/13 23:38:16


Post by: bort


The Tempus is really nice at the current price and provides that can't be charged except by flyers thing, but I'm sure not risking buying a FW model until after the overhaul.

Back to the heavy intercessors, yeah, okay, I'll grant holding the backfield objectives is a role to fill, but they aren't really bringing much new to the table vs intercessors or say tacticals in a rhino. I'm not gonna knock yet more unit variety, that's always better. But it's not like the marine codex lacked a unit that could do that role and be moderately tanky for 100-200pts.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/15 05:22:43


Post by: Jimbobbyish


People talking about primaris replacing old Marines, when heavy Intercessor have replaced regular Intercessors. T5, W3, S5 guns (with 3 versions) and a heavy weapon (with 3 versions). Sure it come down to point cost but if I played primaris I would take heavy Intercessors.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/15 07:55:02


Post by: Neophyte2012


Jimbobbyish wrote:
People talking about primaris replacing old Marines, when heavy Intercessor have replaced regular Intercessors. T5, W3, S5 guns (with 3 versions) and a heavy weapon (with 3 versions). Sure it come down to point cost but if I played primaris I would take heavy Intercessors.


Someone done a math hammer, showing that the Heavy Intercessors are more efficient in killing new edition marines (everyone has 2W or more), if fighting hordes or most of 1W units, just take Aggressors.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/15 09:00:35


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


Neophyte2012 wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
People talking about primaris replacing old Marines, when heavy Intercessor have replaced regular Intercessors. T5, W3, S5 guns (with 3 versions) and a heavy weapon (with 3 versions). Sure it come down to point cost but if I played primaris I would take heavy Intercessors.


Someone done a math hammer, showing that the Heavy Intercessors are more efficient in killing new edition marines (everyone has 2W or more), if fighting hordes or most of 1W units, just take Aggressors.


I'd like to see that maths because it just doesn't add up in my head. If we assume 5 heavys are 140-ish in points, that's 7 regular Intercessors. If you take the execu-whatever rifle on the heavies you get one shot at S5 AP-1 d2. That's 5×2/3×2/3×1/2=20/18=1.1 dead primaris. 7 Intercessors get 2 shots (bolter discipline) each at S4 AP -1 d1, that's 14×2/3×1/2×1/2=28/12=2.3 wounds which is basicalyy the same 1.1 dead primaris. Against 1w models that's double the dead models. That's also a larger footprint and more melee attacks. In favor of the heavies, they are t5 and 3w, meaning they die less. Finally that's a heavy weapon compared to a rapid fire. What i'm saying is, it isn't that black or white easy. And that's under the assumption of the points being accurate at 140, there's room for GW to mess up majorly in both directions


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/15 11:16:08


Post by: Neophyte2012


Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
People talking about primaris replacing old Marines, when heavy Intercessor have replaced regular Intercessors. T5, W3, S5 guns (with 3 versions) and a heavy weapon (with 3 versions). Sure it come down to point cost but if I played primaris I would take heavy Intercessors.


Someone done a math hammer, showing that the Heavy Intercessors are more efficient in killing new edition marines (everyone has 2W or more), if fighting hordes or most of 1W units, just take Aggressors.


I'd like to see that maths because it just doesn't add up in my head. If we assume 5 heavys are 140-ish in points, that's 7 regular Intercessors. If you take the execu-whatever rifle on the heavies you get one shot at S5 AP-1 d2. That's 5×2/3×2/3×1/2=20/18=1.1 dead primaris. 7 Intercessors get 2 shots (bolter discipline) each at S4 AP -1 d1, that's 14×2/3×1/2×1/2=28/12=2.3 wounds which is basicalyy the same 1.1 dead primaris. Against 1w models that's double the dead models. That's also a larger footprint and more melee attacks. In favor of the heavies, they are t5 and 3w, meaning they die less. Finally that's a heavy weapon compared to a rapid fire. What i'm saying is, it isn't that black or white easy. And that's under the assumption of the points being accurate at 140, there's room for GW to mess up majorly in both directions


The conclusion chart of the math is here:
https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-space-marine-codex-preview/

I might be wrong on the statement of "Heavy Int are more effective at killing other marines compare to regular Int". Just an impression that their guns can one shot a new SM. They might be better at killing SM, but may not be better in efficiency of doing that, just comparable. But I think we can agree that if facing Orks, GSC, non Nidzilla Nidz, just taking regular and assault intercessors plus the Aggressors might be the better choice.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/20 13:49:48


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


@Neophyte: that goonhammer article was a nice read and the numbers add up (variance vs. average i guess). Thanks.

Other question: Do we know for certain that Bladeguard vets will be available in numbers larger than 3? I'm planning on running a unit in an Impulsor, using Devout push to get them in melee after disembark. For this approach a unit of 3 is sufficient. If i want to run them on foot though, 9 wounds is a bit little, even with the 2+/4++...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/20 20:06:02


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Think they showed them in a unit of 5 on the preview video last weekend so hopefully they will. But who knows. The Light of Eltharion can get spells from the lord of Hysh in the new Lumineth battle tome and he’s not even a wizard!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes I know that’s been FAQ’d recently but they still made the mistake in the first place


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/21 17:25:41


Post by: Carnage43


Just some amusing points from my last game;

Salamander (opponent) vs White Scars (Me)

Narrow loss for me, some highlights;

New model syndrome on my brand spanking new Repulsor. Hit by 2 lascannons and he rolled double 6s for damage :(

Salamanders, and any Master Artisan chapter really, is REALLY good. The re-rolls on any small to medium sized unit or high strength single shot weapon is UNREAL. The above mentioned lascannons had 1 miss and 1 fail to wound that both passed on the re-roll.

Janky Aggressor saves in spades. His last flame aggressor charges my last bolt aggressor. Gets three wounds. I roll triple 6s for saves. I swing back, get three wounds, he rolls triple 6s for saves. Laughing ensued.

Bladeguard sergeant charges predator under assault doctrine and my chaplains aura (reroll wounds rolls in melee, white scars specific litany). 5 Attacks, 5 hits. 5+ to wound, with a reroll. 4 wounds, at -4 to save and D3. 12 wounds off the predator for the Bladeguard sergeant ALONE. We, uh, were surprised, but honestly it's not even THAT unlikely to stab 3-6 wounds off of a predator per turn and the smash Chaplain was there as back up anyways.

Chaplain w/relic Crozius, mantra of Strength and Mantra of strike off the head. 7 attacks, S7, -2AP, D5, reroll to wound rolls. Decided to YOLO and charge a Leviathan dreadnought last turn. 2+ to hit, 5+ to wound with reroll, 4+ invul. Managed to sneak 2 wounding hits through and smash 10 wounds off of the dread. Opponent wasn't happy seeing a second vehicle carved up in melee by a single model. The real kicker was the chaplains Absolver bolt pistol doing 2 damage when running in, that allowed the 10 he did in melee to kill him (He had 11 left at the start of the turn).




9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/22 13:44:55


Post by: godardc


I can't wait to play my stormraven again out of tactical reserves. No more getting shot T1. What have you been putting in reserves yourself guys ?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/22 15:20:42


Post by: Azuza001


 Carnage43 wrote:
Just some amusing points from my last game;

Salamander (opponent) vs White Scars (Me)

Narrow loss for me, some highlights;

New model syndrome on my brand spanking new Repulsor. Hit by 2 lascannons and he rolled double 6s for damage :(

Salamanders, and any Master Artisan chapter really, is REALLY good. The re-rolls on any small to medium sized unit or high strength single shot weapon is UNREAL. The above mentioned lascannons had 1 miss and 1 fail to wound that both passed on the re-roll.

Janky Aggressor saves in spades. His last flame aggressor charges my last bolt aggressor. Gets three wounds. I roll triple 6s for saves. I swing back, get three wounds, he rolls triple 6s for saves. Laughing ensued.

Bladeguard sergeant charges predator under assault doctrine and my chaplains aura (reroll wounds rolls in melee, white scars specific litany). 5 Attacks, 5 hits. 5+ to wound, with a reroll. 4 wounds, at -4 to save and D3. 12 wounds off the predator for the Bladeguard sergeant ALONE. We, uh, were surprised, but honestly it's not even THAT unlikely to stab 3-6 wounds off of a predator per turn and the smash Chaplain was there as back up anyways.

Chaplain w/relic Crozius, mantra of Strength and Mantra of strike off the head. 7 attacks, S7, -2AP, D5, reroll to wound rolls. Decided to YOLO and charge a Leviathan dreadnought last turn. 2+ to hit, 5+ to wound with reroll, 4+ invul. Managed to sneak 2 wounding hits through and smash 10 wounds off of the dread. Opponent wasn't happy seeing a second vehicle carved up in melee by a single model. The real kicker was the chaplains Absolver bolt pistol doing 2 damage when running in, that allowed the 10 he did in melee to kill him (He had 11 left at the start of the turn).




Good read! I have been enjoying my White Scars recently as well, personally I have found we are marines up until t3, then we become monsters! Lol.

Yeah, the reroll nonsense (on all marine sides) is why salamanders are changing to just reroll 1 wound roll per unit per phase in the next codex. Salamanders were the top army for marines back when 8th started, then a few months later people started experimenting with other stuff... but now its back to old reliable reroll Salamanders. So all those las hitting and wounding doesn't surprise me, the double 6 for dmg is unfortunate but thats all anyone can hope for when facing that stuff, hope he rolls low for dmg...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/23 13:55:35


Post by: Blood Hawk


 godardc wrote:
I can't wait to play my stormraven again out of tactical reserves. No more getting shot T1. What have you been putting in reserves yourself guys ?


I have had good success with reserving eradicators. Though I have been reserving a 5 man scout squad every game lately. They arrive on turn 3 in my opponents deployment zone and do the last part of deploy scramblers and help with engage.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/27 12:25:25


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Hi. Quick question. Are people finding 10 or 5 man (and consequently 3/6 man of certain units) Primaris squads more useful this edition? I like the idea of running multiple 5 man (or 3man) squads but sometimes I feel that I need the larger squad sizes to survive my opponent’s shooting.

Of course this was prior to 9th when we mainly played games based on killing as many units as possible and getting victory points that way.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/27 21:43:57


Post by: BrianDavion


MSU's seems the way to go, allows for more board control.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/27 22:35:24


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


BrianDavion wrote:
MSU's seems the way to go, allows for more board control.


Pretty much, if you don't have a reason to do otherwise. A large unit increases the value of certain buffs and stratagems, for example i prefer to run a 10 man squad of Assault Intercessors (BT) to benefit from litany of devine protection and fires of devotion. If it gets real bad with the blast weapon i might see myself reduce those to 9 guys, but never 5.as.it just doesn't pay off with the support characters. Regular Intercessors on the other hand, MSU all the way.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/28 13:16:17


Post by: Sterling191


Cpt. Icanus wrote:

Pretty much, if you don't have a reason to do otherwise. A large unit increases the value of certain buffs and stratagems, for example i prefer to run a 10 man squad of Assault Intercessors (BT) to benefit from litany of devine protection and fires of devotion. If it gets real bad with the blast weapon i might see myself reduce those to 9 guys, but never 5.as.it just doesn't pay off with the support characters. Regular Intercessors on the other hand, MSU all the way.


Blast's second tier doesnt kick in until 11 models are in a unit. Going from 10 to 9 would not change anything.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/28 15:28:40


Post by: hellpato


I just read that on spykybits

Dark Angels: 1) +1 to hit if the unit did not move in this turn and 2) something about Combat Attrition, probably auto-pass.
White Scars: 1) can Charge after Advance or Fall Back and 2) can fire Assault with no penalty after an Advance move.
Space Wolves: 1) +1 to hit in melee if the unit charged, was charged or heroically intervened and 2) units with this tactic can heroically intervene as if they were characters.
Imperial Fists: 1) ignore Light Cover and 2) 2 (probably only 1, blame the wonky screenshot) additional hits with unmodified 6s with bolt weapons.
Crimson Fists: 1) +1 to hit when the target unit contains 5+ more models than this unit (VEHICLE counts as 5) and 2) 1 additional hit with unmodified 6s with bolt weapons.
Black Templars: 1) reroll Advance and Charge rolls and 2) 5+ feel no pain against mortal wounds.
Blood Angels: 1) +1 to wound when charging, charged or heroically intervening and 2) +1″ to Advance and Charge rolls.
Flesh Tearers: 1) +1 to wound when charging, charged or heroically intervening and 2) -1 AP on unmodified wound rolls of 6.
Iron Hands: 1) 6+ feel no pain and 2) double wounds on the damage chart.
Ultramarines: 1) +1 Leadership and 2) can shoot in a turn during which it Falls Back, but at -1 to hit.
Salamanders:1) you can reroll one wound roll when resolving that unit’s attack and 2) each time an attack with an AP characteristic of -1 is allocated…treat it as 0 instead.
Raven Guard: 1) count as being in Light Cover if the attacker is more than 18″ away and 2) INFANTRY only count as being in Dense Cover if the attacker is more than 12″ away.
Deathwatch: 1) each time a model with this tactic makes a melee attack against TYRANID, AELDARI, ORK, NECRONS or TAU, reroll a hit roll of 1 and 2) after both sides have finished deploying their armies, select one battlefield role. Until the end of the battle, each time a model with this tactic makes an attack against an enemy unit with that battlefield role, reroll a wound roll of 1.

Im a RG player and if i read as RAW, infantry in DENSE COVER everywhere????????


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/28 15:59:49


Post by: Sterling191


The specific wording on the Dark Angels CT is very interesting. When on the receiving end of a charge, they're always going to be hitting at a +1 in melee.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/28 21:10:16


Post by: godardc


Wait: aren't all units entitled to shooting at -1 after falling back in 9th ? Why is it part of the Ultramarine CT ?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/28 21:12:53


Post by: Blood Hawk


 godardc wrote:
Wait: aren't all units entitled to shooting at -1 after falling back in 9th ? Why is it part of the Ultramarine CT ?

Nope. You can't fall back and shoot unless you have a special rule that lets you. Not even fly lets you fall back and shoot.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/28 23:27:16


Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets


White scars are a fantastically fun army to play this edition, I am absolutely buzzing to get that chaplain on bike.

Main thing to see is how points shake out- I wonder if the deathbus detachment will stick around.

Also: I've got 3x indomitus marines, and this beautifully makes a 2k force by using each character, 25 intercessors, and 3x the other units. Other than the obvious turboslaplain coming out soon, what should I prioritise picking up?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/29 00:42:35


Post by: XeonDragon


If the Raven Guard rule is RAW.... -1 to hit against infantry unless within 12"? That would be... WOW. A -1 to hit and +1 to save would really go with their 'fluff' of being (at least a substantial proportion of the time) a chapter that operates sniper-style, and likes to sit back and whittle down the enemy before going in for the kill.

Still... WOW.

 hellpato wrote:
I just read that on spykybits

Dark Angels: 1) +1 to hit if the unit did not move in this turn and 2) something about Combat Attrition, probably auto-pass.
White Scars: 1) can Charge after Advance or Fall Back and 2) can fire Assault with no penalty after an Advance move.
Space Wolves: 1) +1 to hit in melee if the unit charged, was charged or heroically intervened and 2) units with this tactic can heroically intervene as if they were characters.
Imperial Fists: 1) ignore Light Cover and 2) 2 (probably only 1, blame the wonky screenshot) additional hits with unmodified 6s with bolt weapons.
Crimson Fists: 1) +1 to hit when the target unit contains 5+ more models than this unit (VEHICLE counts as 5) and 2) 1 additional hit with unmodified 6s with bolt weapons.
Black Templars: 1) reroll Advance and Charge rolls and 2) 5+ feel no pain against mortal wounds.
Blood Angels: 1) +1 to wound when charging, charged or heroically intervening and 2) +1″ to Advance and Charge rolls.
Flesh Tearers: 1) +1 to wound when charging, charged or heroically intervening and 2) -1 AP on unmodified wound rolls of 6.
Iron Hands: 1) 6+ feel no pain and 2) double wounds on the damage chart.
Ultramarines: 1) +1 Leadership and 2) can shoot in a turn during which it Falls Back, but at -1 to hit.
Salamanders:1) you can reroll one wound roll when resolving that unit’s attack and 2) each time an attack with an AP characteristic of -1 is allocated…treat it as 0 instead.
Raven Guard: 1) count as being in Light Cover if the attacker is more than 18″ away and 2) INFANTRY only count as being in Dense Cover if the attacker is more than 12″ away.
Deathwatch: 1) each time a model with this tactic makes a melee attack against TYRANID, AELDARI, ORK, NECRONS or TAU, reroll a hit roll of 1 and 2) after both sides have finished deploying their armies, select one battlefield role. Until the end of the battle, each time a model with this tactic makes an attack against an enemy unit with that battlefield role, reroll a wound roll of 1.

Im a RG player and if i read as RAW, infantry in DENSE COVER everywhere????????


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/29 11:30:17


Post by: Flavius Infernus


 XeonDragon wrote:
If the Raven Guard rule is RAW.... -1 to hit against infantry unless within 12"? That would be... WOW. A -1 to hit and +1 to save would really go with their 'fluff' of being (at least a substantial proportion of the time) a chapter that operates sniper-style, and likes to sit back and whittle down the enemy before going in for the kill.

Still... WOW.



This is unchanged from 8th edition--Raven Guard already had a rule that made infantry -1 to be hit outside of 12". The thing is that everybody always played RG successors for the +3" range, so nobody ever used it. A couple of times in games with my first founding RG I had to bring out the codex to show my opponent the rule.

In gameplay it's no great shakes. Getting hit 16% less often doesn't deter anybody from shooting at you anyway and doesn't significantly increase survivability, and RG mostly want to be pretty close anyway. If there are devastators or scouts in the backfield causing problems, most opponents have something to send in close and get them. Also in 8th when thunderfires were king, they would still hit on a 3+, which was enough to wipe out a unit of scouts with one shot most of the time.

In 9th it may be even less of an advantage when the to-hit mods are capped at -1, so the doctrine won't even come into play if there's any other modifiers.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/29 13:53:55


Post by: hellpato


 Flavius Infernus wrote:
 XeonDragon wrote:
If the Raven Guard rule is RAW.... -1 to hit against infantry unless within 12"? That would be... WOW. A -1 to hit and +1 to save would really go with their 'fluff' of being (at least a substantial proportion of the time) a chapter that operates sniper-style, and likes to sit back and whittle down the enemy before going in for the kill.

Still... WOW.



This is unchanged from 8th edition--Raven Guard already had a rule that made infantry -1 to be hit outside of 12". The thing is that everybody always played RG successors for the +3" range, so nobody ever used it. A couple of times in games with my first founding RG I had to bring out the codex to show my opponent the rule.

In gameplay it's no great shakes. Getting hit 16% less often doesn't deter anybody from shooting at you anyway and doesn't significantly increase survivability, and RG mostly want to be pretty close anyway. If there are devastators or scouts in the backfield causing problems, most opponents have something to send in close and get them. Also in 8th when thunderfires were king, they would still hit on a 3+, which was enough to wipe out a unit of scouts with one shot most of the time.

In 9th it may be even less of an advantage when the to-hit mods are capped at -1, so the doctrine won't even come into play if there's any other modifiers.


The -1 was when you are inside building that how we read the rule not everywhere.... if it was that case... i played wrong all the time.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/29 14:13:27


Post by: Blood Hawk


 hellpato wrote:
 Flavius Infernus wrote:
 XeonDragon wrote:
If the Raven Guard rule is RAW.... -1 to hit against infantry unless within 12"? That would be... WOW. A -1 to hit and +1 to save would really go with their 'fluff' of being (at least a substantial proportion of the time) a chapter that operates sniper-style, and likes to sit back and whittle down the enemy before going in for the kill.

Still... WOW.



This is unchanged from 8th edition--Raven Guard already had a rule that made infantry -1 to be hit outside of 12". The thing is that everybody always played RG successors for the +3" range, so nobody ever used it. A couple of times in games with my first founding RG I had to bring out the codex to show my opponent the rule.

In gameplay it's no great shakes. Getting hit 16% less often doesn't deter anybody from shooting at you anyway and doesn't significantly increase survivability, and RG mostly want to be pretty close anyway. If there are devastators or scouts in the backfield causing problems, most opponents have something to send in close and get them. Also in 8th when thunderfires were king, they would still hit on a 3+, which was enough to wipe out a unit of scouts with one shot most of the time.

In 9th it may be even less of an advantage when the to-hit mods are capped at -1, so the doctrine won't even come into play if there's any other modifiers.


The -1 was when you are inside building that how we read the rule not everywhere.... if it was that case... i played wrong all the time.

It is "entirely on or within a terrain feature". So buildings would count, so would area terrain, etc. If it changes to just dense terrain beyond 12" that will be an upgrade.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/29 15:48:25


Post by: Billagio


Ad Mech have -1 to hit on everything I believe if you are Stygies and nobody is claiming thats broken


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/29 20:41:03


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


A -1 to hit isn't 16.7% of incoming fire. Depending on BS of the attacker it's 25% (3+) or 33% (4+) etc. But rerolls or boni to hit remedy that effect. Statistically a -1 to hit is huge, guess it rarely feels so in game. I played Alaitoc Eldar a lot and it never felt strong, though statistically it should have. Expert Crafters on the other hand always feels impactful. Guess it's the same with marines.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/30 04:51:45


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I currently have 20 Intercessors, all with the bog-standard weaponry (2 Aux GLs in there, and 4 Sergeants). I'm thinking of maybe getting a few more, and am wondering if any of the alternate weapons - the more snipe-y one and the more shooty one - are worthwhile?

Any thoughts there?

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
White scars are a fantastically fun army to play this edition, I am absolutely buzzing to get that chaplain on bike.
I'm using White Scars for my custom Chapter. I too am waiting for that biker Chaplain. He's going to lead my Outriders to victory... or lead them to something at least.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/30 10:23:22


Post by: Nevelon


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I currently have 20 Intercessors, all with the bog-standard weaponry (2 Aux GLs in there, and 4 Sergeants). I'm thinking of maybe getting a few more, and am wondering if any of the alternate weapons - the more snipe-y one and the more shooty one - are worthwhile?

Any thoughts there?

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
White scars are a fantastically fun army to play this edition, I am absolutely buzzing to get that chaplain on bike.
I'm using White Scars for my custom Chapter. I too am waiting for that biker Chaplain. He's going to lead my Outriders to victory... or lead them to something at least.



Chapter tactics and role needed are going to skew the discussion a bit. Plus normal foes, etc. And all this could change with the new book. Overall I think they are fairly well balanced.

The weight of fire from the assault version looks impressive. If you are using WS tactics, you can assault move w/o penalty. This should let you project your firepower pretty much everywhere.

Rapid fire is still the solid, middle of the road, TAC pick. The point of AP is nice to have, good volume of shots, nice range. Good strat to go with them for larger squads.

The heavy is low volume, but high quality shots. If you need a backfield camping squad, these could be your guys.

There is no wrong answer. I think with the last round of balance they made them all viable. The question is what your list needs, and things like warlord traits and chapter tactics. For example, as an Ultramarine, I skew towards rapid fire, as I can fire at full range for 2 turns in tac doctrine while on the move.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/30 11:13:40


Post by: superwill


Just to chime in on the RG tactic, I’m pretty sure the one typed above is missing a vital detail. The pic that was leaked a month or two ago clearly showed that for one of the bonuses they had to already be in cover (similar to how it already works).

I think it was basically “if you’re 12” away you get light cover (infantry only), and if you’re 18” or more away and in a terrain piece then you are in dense cover”. Not 100% sure but I am positive that you cant get both bonuses just by standing in the open.

Bit of a nerf to the current RG tactic for things like vehicles, and in a few other situations. Disappointing IMO but I’ll just run my RG as successors I guess. Though really, if we don’t get some new strats to replace the fact that now everyone can put stuff in reserve for CPs and modifiers don’t stack (two changes that punched RG pretty hard in the guts), RG are going to have a quiet edition.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/09/30 23:41:24


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Nevelon wrote:
The question is what your list needs, and things like warlord traits and chapter tactics.
Thanks for the information.

In relation to the above, I was also planning on having some Heavy Intercessors as kind of a "support unit" for my regular Intercessor squads, so something that compliments or backs-up the individual units.

The fact that the "Assault" weapon version of the Heavy Intercessors still has a "Heavy" weapon bothers me, as it defeats the purpose of the unit. On the other hand the "Heavy" version of the Heavy Intercessors guns seem to be quite tasty, and might make an interesting back-up for more static/objective-holding Intercessor units.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/01 01:00:20


Post by: Nevelon


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
The question is what your list needs, and things like warlord traits and chapter tactics.
Thanks for the information.

In relation to the above, I was also planning on having some Heavy Intercessors as kind of a "support unit" for my regular Intercessor squads, so something that compliments or backs-up the individual units.

The fact that the "Assault" weapon version of the Heavy Intercessors still has a "Heavy" weapon bothers me, as it defeats the purpose of the unit. On the other hand the "Heavy" version of the Heavy Intercessors guns seem to be quite tasty, and might make an interesting back-up for more static/objective-holding Intercessor units.


It will be interesting to see if that should have been an assault heavy bolter. Might get errata’d.

I’ve not looked at the heavy intercessors much; was going to wait for the codex and the full picture. They strike me as solid backfield campers. The slower movement would not come into play, and the extra range gives them some reach. For WS players the assault version might work as well. Without the minus to hit, you can just run those tough wounds up the table to grab a midfield objective. For when you need to be there at the start of round 2, the assault guys can run round one without giving up the shooting, and hopefully have a boot on the objective at the start of turn 2 when it counts. Slightly easier with the extra inch of movement of regular intercessors, but the extra W/T of the chonky lads will be nice when you get there. It might even be worth giving up a rifle turn one for the heavy adding firepower for turns 2-5. Depends a lot on the cost.

When building a TAC list, I always ask “What do I have to kill piles of chaff? MEQ? TEQ? Light vehicles? Heavy armor?” I should probably update that list with primaris, both regular and chunky. But all the guns on the intercessors, both regular and heavy, do solid duty on different targets.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/01 02:55:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


If the rumours of Outrider units only coming in groups of 3 (no doubt with zero options as well, thanks to no model/no rule) then that puts a serious crimp on my WS Biker idea.

I wanted to run 2x6 with the Bike Chappy leading them. No idea if that would have been effective, but it would have been evocative.


As for those Heavy Intercessors, I like the idea of them being the heavy backup for the more forward moving elements of my Chapter. I don't plan on having any of the current eyesore tanks in my army, so currently my "big" units are my two Redemptors. I do like the new speeder and not-Predator though, so i might end up with one of the former and two of the latter.

Of course they're all going to compete for slots alongside my Eradicators, Hellblasters and Eliminators.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/01 22:23:02


Post by: DanielFM


 superwill wrote:
Just to chime in on the RG tactic, I’m pretty sure the one typed above is missing a vital detail. The pic that was leaked a month or two ago clearly showed that for one of the bonuses they had to already be in cover (similar to how it already works).

I think it was basically “if you’re 12” away you get light cover (infantry only), and if you’re 18” or more away and in a terrain piece then you are in dense cover”. Not 100% sure but I am positive that you cant get both bonuses just by standing in the open.

Bit of a nerf to the current RG tactic for things like vehicles, and in a few other situations. Disappointing IMO but I’ll just run my RG as successors I guess. Though really, if we don’t get some new strats to replace the fact that now everyone can put stuff in reserve for CPs and modifiers don’t stack (two changes that punched RG pretty hard in the guts), RG are going to have a quiet edition.


Welcome to Imperial Fists city. 9th bumf*cked us up, Core only auras is a straight up nerf to most of our heavy weapon platforms, and we will remain the chapter with worst Stratagems and Psychic powers.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/01 23:43:22


Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If the rumours of Outrider units only coming in groups of 3 (no doubt with zero options as well, thanks to no model/no rule) then that puts a serious crimp on my WS Biker idea.

I wanted to run 2x6 with the Bike Chappy leading them. No idea if that would have been effective, but it would have been evocative.


I really wanted to do the same... 3x5 + chaplain... 93 attacks that rr to wound t1...

Oh well.
Very confident that white scars are going to be a hell of a chapter throughout 9th. Insane speed + push threats combined with tough, surgical units: what more could you ask for?

Very excited as to the potential of them for this edition.


considering this: opinions on TH/power weapons on assault intercessor sargeants? I'm expecting that a power sword/axe will be tasty in 5s and a big outflanking 10 man squad with a TH will be the strat.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 00:37:23


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Apparently TH aren't as dangerous (lower AP now... which kind of goes against the fluff, but whatever) at a flat 20 regardless of whether you're buying it for a character or a squad leader.

My plan was to give one Outrider Sergeant a TH, and the other a Power Sword. I hope that's possible.

If the proper Assault Intercessor kit is just two sprues with 5 Marines per sprue, and therefore a double set of Sergeant options, then I might start sprinkling them throughout my regular Intercessor units.

Do people take weapon upgrades on Intercessor Sergeants? Or do they tend to stick with what's free?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 01:32:24


Post by: Nevelon


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apparently TH aren't as dangerous (lower AP now... which kind of goes against the fluff, but whatever) at a flat 20 regardless of whether you're buying it for a character or a squad leader.

My plan was to give one Outrider Sergeant a TH, and the other a Power Sword. I hope that's possible.

If the proper Assault Intercessor kit is just two sprues with 5 Marines per sprue, and therefore a double set of Sergeant options, then I might start sprinkling them throughout my regular Intercessor units.

Do people take weapon upgrades on Intercessor Sergeants? Or do they tend to stick with what's free?


I find it’s worth the points. The guys are 3A base. Plus one on the charge. Another if you spring for the vet intercessor strat. That’s firstborn captain level of swings. Might as well be doing it with something that’s going to leave a mark.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 02:32:01


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apparently TH aren't as dangerous (lower AP now... which kind of goes against the fluff, but whatever) at a flat 20 regardless of whether you're buying it for a character or a squad leader.

My plan was to give one Outrider Sergeant a TH, and the other a Power Sword. I hope that's possible.

If the proper Assault Intercessor kit is just two sprues with 5 Marines per sprue, and therefore a double set of Sergeant options, then I might start sprinkling them throughout my regular Intercessor units.

Do people take weapon upgrades on Intercessor Sergeants? Or do they tend to stick with what's free?


I've been sticking with whats free simply because I'm not in a mood to buy upgrade packs just to get a power sword or something for my sergant, but assault intercessors will make things muuuch better in that regard


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 10:02:50


Post by: Nevelon


BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apparently TH aren't as dangerous (lower AP now... which kind of goes against the fluff, but whatever) at a flat 20 regardless of whether you're buying it for a character or a squad leader.

My plan was to give one Outrider Sergeant a TH, and the other a Power Sword. I hope that's possible.

If the proper Assault Intercessor kit is just two sprues with 5 Marines per sprue, and therefore a double set of Sergeant options, then I might start sprinkling them throughout my regular Intercessor units.

Do people take weapon upgrades on Intercessor Sergeants? Or do they tend to stick with what's free?


I've been sticking with whats free simply because I'm not in a mood to buy upgrade packs just to get a power sword or something for my sergant, but assault intercessors will make things muuuch better in that regard


I used a relic blade (from the VV kit I think), swords from the ravenwing upgrade sprue, and a fist from the BaC box. Never did a TH, as they added that option after I finished building all mine.

I’m also looking forward to the assault intercessor box. Going to do a lot to flesh out my sarge options. Going to start with the magnets as well at this point.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 18:25:11


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I really wanted to do the same... 3x5 + chaplain... 93 attacks that rr to wound t1...
Well. That's the end of that dream.

On the bright side I can now build my Outriders as I don't have to wait around to convert them/kitbash them with HTH weapons from the Assault Intercessor sprue...

GW man... bunch'a witches.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 18:29:36


Post by: Nevelon


The NMNR thing is sucking the life out of the modeling side of the hobby. And giving the lore/fluff/realism a swift kick in the geneseed.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 19:28:14


Post by: Flavius Infernus


Cpt. Icanus wrote:
A -1 to hit isn't 16.7% of incoming fire. Depending on BS of the attacker it's 25% (3+) or 33% (4+) etc. But rerolls or boni to hit remedy that effect. Statistically a -1 to hit is huge, guess it rarely feels so in game. I played Alaitoc Eldar a lot and it never felt strong, though statistically it should have. Expert Crafters on the other hand always feels impactful. Guess it's the same with marines.


Not sure about your math here, Icanus. I don't think BS matters.

A BS 3 model has a base 66.6% (4/6) chance of hitting. -1 to hit makes that 50% to hit, or minus approx 16.7%
A BS 4 model has a base 50% (3/6) chance of hitting. -1 to hit makes that 33.3% to hit, or minus approx 16.7%
A BS 5 model has base 33.3% (2/6) chance of hitting. -1 to hit makes that 16.6% to hit, or minus approx 16.7%

If you're looking at the percent chance overall to score a wound, then the hit roll has a magnified effect on that because it's the first roll in the sequence. +1 or -1 modifiers on a d6 go in 1/6 increments (aka 16.7%).


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 19:59:46


Post by: Kitane


Subtraction is the wrong approach here, you want to see how much lower is the reduced chance compared to the original.

Going from hitting on 5+ to hitting on 6+ will leave you with half of the original hits.

That's a quick sanity check to see that you are obviously losing more than 16.6%

Going from 4+ to 5+ will leave you with 2/3 of the original amount of hits

etc.

Also, the hit roll being the first in the sequence is irrelevant.

The sequence is: chance to hit * chance to wound * chance to fail the save

If you are hitting on 3+ and wounding on 3+ against 5+ save (so each step has a 2/3 chance of going through), giving yourself +1 to hit, +1 to wound, or -1 to AP will all have the same result. Try it out.

(now I hope I didn't make any mistake)


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/02 20:45:33


Post by: rbstr


Really depends on how you want to look at it (and how you talk about % vs. percentage points as a unit of measure).
Even if your total probability to hit is 16.7 percentage points less going from 5+ to 6+ is 50% fewer expected hits. (You can see it from the overall percentage too: 16.7/33.3=.5)

In that way a -1 hurts less for a BS3+ unit than a BS4+ unit. It's a larger proportion of expected hits for the BS4+ shooter.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/03 09:49:39


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


I mean sure, if you want to count overall shots 16.7% is correct, but that's not the damage mitigated by the modifier.
Considering sequence, it influences variance. It's basically like having 2 attacks with 1 damage or 1 attack with two damage. The former has 3 possible outcomew, 0, 1 and 2 damage. So the chance to do any damage at all is higher. The latter is more swingy with either 0 or 2 damage dealt. Statistically they're even though. So if you prefer the more reliable but lower ceiling approach, better hit > better wound > better ap.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/03 17:33:36


Post by: Gareth_Evans


@Icanus.

You are arguing a different thing. What's being said is that due to the commutative law of multiplication.

a hit 3 wound on 4 attack is mathematically the same as

a hit on 4 wound on 3 attack.

Thus 2/3*1/2 = 1/2 * 2/3

You are saying that a multi attack has less variance than a single attack that has the same average damage. This is true. But the conclusion you made at the end hit>wound>AP does not follow from this. What follows from your example is that multi attacks have less variance not that hit is better than wound.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 06:37:58


Post by: hellpato


I was updating an old list I made and I don’t know why my vantard veteran had each one two chainswords. Now I do t know how to use them or send them to 30k


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 07:47:43


Post by: Weazel


Is it really true that Repulsors and Impulsors lost FLY? I mean I'm super happy that marines got nerfed but this really, REALLY, rubs me the wrong way. They are HOVER tanks ffs and suddenly, yeah, they're grounded. Not very happy since I recently spent some 200€ on two Reps and 2 Imps but I'm kinda glad I don't have to waste time painting them.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 10:26:14


Post by: stratigo


flyers can leap tall buildings in a single bound. Which isn't what repulsors can or should be able to do.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 10:59:32


Post by: Weazel


stratigo wrote:
flyers can leap tall buildings in a single bound. Which isn't what repulsors can or should be able to do.


Flyer is completely different thing than FLY in case you didn't know. Eldar tanks are not flyers either but they can do it. As can Necron Arks.

With today's terrain requirements it becomes impossible to get a Repulsor anywhere unless it can skip walls etc. Land Raider syndrome all over again.

I mean I'm pretty sure fly wasn't the biggest issue that they had...

Losing all rerolls, repulsor field, having no invuln when many weapons become d3+3 dmg or d6+2 damage they are close to worthless. Sure they have a lot of dakka but meh.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 11:11:00


Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets


I was just about to buy a couple impulsors too... Glad I didn't.

They still seem super solid for bladeguard buses but just way worse now


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 13:08:08


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


 Gareth_Evans wrote:
@Icanus.

You are arguing a different thing. What's being said is that due to the commutative law of multiplication.

a hit 3 wound on 4 attack is mathematically the same as

a hit on 4 wound on 3 attack.

Thus 2/3*1/2 = 1/2 * 2/3

You are saying that a multi attack has less variance than a single attack that has the same average damage. This is true. But the conclusion you made at the end hit>wound>AP does not follow from this. What follows from your example is that multi attacks have less variance not that hit is better than wound.


Actually, i'm not. I understand i brought it across in a weird way, but the example holds. Average 1/2 × 2/3 is the same as 2/3 × 1/2, according to however you anglophile folks call that law :p but the variance of the two is different, which is easier to explain with the above example than small fractions of hit and wound chances. It's basically the law of large numbers, the more hits you get, the likelier your wound rolls are to behave statistically. Thus the better hit chance is less swingy than the better wound chance, though the average is the same. Does this make sense?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 20:40:01


Post by: broxus


Anyone have a good photo of the points for SMs? I have seen some blurry ones floating around that are the quality of most UFO & Bigfoot sightings. I’m also trying to see a redemptor dreadnaught Datasheet with all the changes if anyone can point me in the right direction.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 21:14:13


Post by: Nevelon


broxus wrote:
Anyone have a good photo of the points for SMs? I have seen some blurry ones floating around that are the quality of most UFO & Bigfoot sightings. I’m also trying to see a redemptor dreadnaught Datasheet with all the changes if anyone can point me in the right direction.


From the N&R thread

https://imgur.com/a/SdF2q43


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/04 23:15:57


Post by: Medicinal Carrots


Cpt. Icanus wrote:
 Gareth_Evans wrote:
@Icanus.

You are arguing a different thing. What's being said is that due to the commutative law of multiplication.

a hit 3 wound on 4 attack is mathematically the same as

a hit on 4 wound on 3 attack.

Thus 2/3*1/2 = 1/2 * 2/3

You are saying that a multi attack has less variance than a single attack that has the same average damage. This is true. But the conclusion you made at the end hit>wound>AP does not follow from this. What follows from your example is that multi attacks have less variance not that hit is better than wound.


Actually, i'm not. I understand i brought it across in a weird way, but the example holds. Average 1/2 × 2/3 is the same as 2/3 × 1/2, according to however you anglophile folks call that law :p but the variance of the two is different, which is easier to explain with the above example than small fractions of hit and wound chances. It's basically the law of large numbers, the more hits you get, the likelier your wound rolls are to behave statistically. Thus the better hit chance is less swingy than the better wound chance, though the average is the same. Does this make sense?


Except it doesn't work that way. 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound produces the exact same spread of outcomes as 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound. As a quick example, I ran the numbers for 5 attacks at both a 3+/4+ and a 4+/3+

3+ hit 4+ wound gives you:
5 wounds: 0.41%
4 wounds: 4.12%
3 wounds: 16.46%
2 wounds: 32.92%
1 wound : 32.92%
0 wounds: 13.17%

4+ to hit and 3+ to wound also gives you:
5 wounds: 0.41%
4 wounds: 4.12%
3 wounds: 16.46%
2 wounds: 32.92%
1 wound : 32.92%
0 wounds: 13.17%

2/3*1/2 is statistically identical to 1/2*2/3 in terms of both average outcomes and spread of outcomes. Neither is more swingy than the other.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 07:35:06


Post by: Weazel


Anyone seen the new rules/datasheet for Drop pods? I'm entertaining a thought of dropping 5+1 Long Fangs with Multimeltas to wreck some armor. With 2 wounds a pop they're also a great distraction carnifex to boot.

Drop pods used to allow (or require) "half" of them to drop on first turn but you probably can't drop first turn at least outside your deployment... Any idea how they work now? Haven't really used pods since 7th edition.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 09:21:12


Post by: Medicinal Carrots


Pods are basically the same as in 8th, just a bit cheaper. They and their contents don't count against the no more than half in reserve limit, can arrive turn 1, and still set up them and passengers anywhere more than 9" from the enemy when they arrive. The half your pods turn 1 rule went away last edition and hasn't returned.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 10:55:44


Post by: Weazel


Medicinal Carrots wrote:
Pods are basically the same as in 8th, just a bit cheaper. They and their contents don't count against the no more than half in reserve limit, can arrive turn 1, and still set up them and passengers anywhere more than 9" from the enemy when they arrive. The half your pods turn 1 rule went away last edition and hasn't returned.


Hmm, just checked the matched play rules and no Strategic Reserves or Reinforcements can arrive on first battle round. But I suppose there could be tanks/monsters left on the second battle round... The unit comes down to 218ish points + Pod whatever that costs. A hefty sum for sure but they at least get to fire once for full effect before reprisals.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 12:42:53


Post by: Sotahullu


Yeah, Drop Pods is actually a interesting option and not just for dropping some devastators with multi-melta.

Just sadly for me is that as I am planning on making all-Primaris Flesh Tearer list so I can't take them (for whatever reason), like few other things.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 17:13:10


Post by: Keramory


 Weazel wrote:
Is it really true that Repulsors and Impulsors lost FLY? I mean I'm super happy that marines got nerfed but this really, REALLY, rubs me the wrong way. They are HOVER tanks ffs and suddenly, yeah, they're grounded. Not very happy since I recently spent some 200€ on two Reps and 2 Imps but I'm kinda glad I don't have to waste time painting them.


They got hit a number of ways. Repulsors don't get rerolls from auras now and lost the double shoot turret for executioners. Still like 350 points as a base. I heard they also got hit with transport but not 100% on that.

Honestly I'm just going to run them as the Gladiator tanks. I only wanted that to begin with for Primaris so I'm happy with stand ins even if they're a little bulkier.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 17:46:48


Post by: Crimson


Sotahullu wrote:
Yeah, Drop Pods is actually a interesting option and not just for dropping some devastators with multi-melta.

Just sadly for me is that as I am planning on making all-Primaris Flesh Tearer list so I can't take them (for whatever reason), like few other things.

I've been doing 'all primaris' too, but now that old marines have two wounds, I don't feel weird for using primaris models to represent them. Today I've been converting primaris-bodied sternguard to go in pods. They basically have stats of an intercessor with a bolt rifle, except they have a point more of Ld and AP.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/05 18:07:53


Post by: Sotahullu


 Crimson wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Yeah, Drop Pods is actually a interesting option and not just for dropping some devastators with multi-melta.

Just sadly for me is that as I am planning on making all-Primaris Flesh Tearer list so I can't take them (for whatever reason), like few other things.

I've been doing 'all primaris' too, but now that old marines have two wounds, I don't feel weird for using primaris models to represent them. Today I've been converting primaris-bodied sternguard to go in pods. They basically have stats of an intercessor with a bolt rifle, except they have a point more of Ld and AP.


Well I have been toying around with that idea too but I can't agree should I go with it. Maybe after seeing the book.

Plus I don't have extra bits so I would have to order those separately.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/06 06:33:22


Post by: Weazel


Converting oldmarines to Primaris is an interesting idea. I'd love to have Primaris bodied Grey Hunters etc, however oldmarines are probably not going to get new kits any more so they are going to get squatted at some point or another for sure... which kinda kills my excitement to go into too much trouble with conversions.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/06 09:46:36


Post by: Insularum


Being extremely pedantic over a typo - but the Ultramarines supplement FAQ seems to give the seal of oath full rerolls to hit and wound in a permanent aura (for core and characters).

Unchanged part of relic: declare a target unit.
New part: when targetting an enemy unit, reroll hits and wounds.

No real interaction between 1st/2nd sentence.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/06 12:15:06


Post by: Crimson


 Weazel wrote:
Converting oldmarines to Primaris is an interesting idea. I'd love to have Primaris bodied Grey Hunters etc, however oldmarines are probably not going to get new kits any more so they are going to get squatted at some point or another for sure... which kinda kills my excitement to go into too much trouble with conversions.

A reasonable concern. I built my sternguard with bolt rifles with extra targeting doodahs from infiltrators (they look much better with the bigger gun) as rules-wise their weapons are just bolt rifles with one extra point of AP. If sternguard gets squatted or their rules become incompatible with this modelling choice I can just use these models as stalker intercessors.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/07 13:49:30


Post by: Keramory


While I'm happy it seems like I can play my Primaris Ultramarines against non-space marines now, what do you think the better Primaris units are?

I used to castle with Calgar/Guil, Aggressors and Rep. Executioners but somehow all 3 got nerfed lol.

I know Ultras are the decent at all Chapter, but at least we stood out with Aggressors with our doctrine. What do we have now that could be our shining unit?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/07 14:18:16


Post by: Khornatedemon


Keramory wrote:
While I'm happy it seems like I can play my Primaris Ultramarines against non-space marines now, what do you think the better Primaris units are?

I used to castle with Calgar/Guil, Aggressors and Rep. Executioners but somehow all 3 got nerfed lol.

I know Ultras are the decent at all Chapter, but at least we stood out with Aggressors with our doctrine. What do we have now that could be our shining unit?


only the most busted unit in the game..eradicators! You have move and shoot heavy melta rifles for turn 2 and 3. Heavy intercessors with the heavy rifle too. Girlyman still has a re-roll aura which is nice, and fall back and shoot is still good.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/07 14:43:49


Post by: Insularum


Khornatedemon wrote:
Keramory wrote:
While I'm happy it seems like I can play my Primaris Ultramarines against non-space marines now, what do you think the better Primaris units are?

I used to castle with Calgar/Guil, Aggressors and Rep. Executioners but somehow all 3 got nerfed lol.

I know Ultras are the decent at all Chapter, but at least we stood out with Aggressors with our doctrine. What do we have now that could be our shining unit?


only the most busted unit in the game..eradicators! You have move and shoot heavy melta rifles for turn 2 and 3. Heavy intercessors with the heavy rifle too. Girlyman still has a re-roll aura which is nice, and fall back and shoot is still good.

Master of strategy and/or squad doctrines can get up to 2 units moving/shooting with heavies on turn 1. Also worth trying to make the castle tougher - Tiggy can use his -1 on a core unit, and psychic fortress the whole castle for a 5++, and an apothecary can hand out the 6+++ and heal/revive where needed (awesome on 3W gravis).

As well as the totally busted eradicators, basic intercessors can step into the aggressors old anti horde role a bit. A squad of 10 with auto bolt rifles and 2 grenade launchers (now assault weapons) can use rapid fire and spray 60 + 4D6 shots around.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/07 15:10:40


Post by: Khornatedemon


the redeploy strat is also very very good for ultras. I feel they might come out really good going forward

edit: I just realized they didnt change girlymans master of battle so he still has an army wide reroll 1's aura


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/07 15:27:26


Post by: Flavius Infernus


Spoiler:
Medicinal Carrots wrote:
Cpt. Icanus wrote:
 Gareth_Evans wrote:
@Icanus.

You are arguing a different thing. What's being said is that due to the commutative law of multiplication.

a hit 3 wound on 4 attack is mathematically the same as

a hit on 4 wound on 3 attack.

Thus 2/3*1/2 = 1/2 * 2/3

You are saying that a multi attack has less variance than a single attack that has the same average damage. This is true. But the conclusion you made at the end hit>wound>AP does not follow from this. What follows from your example is that multi attacks have less variance not that hit is better than wound.


Actually, i'm not. I understand i brought it across in a weird way, but the example holds. Average 1/2 × 2/3 is the same as 2/3 × 1/2, according to however you anglophile folks call that law :p but the variance of the two is different, which is easier to explain with the above example than small fractions of hit and wound chances. It's basically the law of large numbers, the more hits you get, the likelier your wound rolls are to behave statistically. Thus the better hit chance is less swingy than the better wound chance, though the average is the same. Does this make sense?


Except it doesn't work that way. 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound produces the exact same spread of outcomes as 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound. As a quick example, I ran the numbers for 5 attacks at both a 3+/4+ and a 4+/3+

3+ hit 4+ wound gives you:
5 wounds: 0.41%
4 wounds: 4.12%
3 wounds: 16.46%
2 wounds: 32.92%
1 wound : 32.92%
0 wounds: 13.17%

4+ to hit and 3+ to wound also gives you:
5 wounds: 0.41%
4 wounds: 4.12%
3 wounds: 16.46%
2 wounds: 32.92%
1 wound : 32.92%
0 wounds: 13.17%

2/3*1/2 is statistically identical to 1/2*2/3 in terms of both average outcomes and spread of outcomes. Neither is more swingy than the other.


Everybody on this argument please go Google "percent change vs. percent difference." Mathematicians already figured out how this works hundreds of years ago.

Having started this whole thing, and after reviewing the quantitative science formulas, I'm persuaded that I was looking at the modifier as a percent/relative change when actually it's a percent/relative difference. Ballistic skill does matter.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/07 19:30:22


Post by: Leth


Easiest way to understand it is:

Look at how many shots it takes to cause 10 wounds. It makes it easy to see how much of an incremental impact something has.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/10 13:57:25


Post by: Crimson


So how are people feeling about the Sternguard now? They lost their stratagem, so there is less incentive to keep the special issue bolters. Still, the bolters are pretty decent and don't cost any extra. Assuming that I want to put them in a pod, should I just keep them cheap or are the options worth it? And if they're which ones?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/10 14:36:25


Post by: Kebabcito


So there's any decent buffs outside DA?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/10 17:15:44


Post by: Sotahullu


 Crimson wrote:
So how are people feeling about the Sternguard now? They lost their stratagem, so there is less incentive to keep the special issue bolters. Still, the bolters are pretty decent and don't cost any extra. Assuming that I want to put them in a pod, should I just keep them cheap or are the options worth it? And if they're which ones?


Well what is to say? They are "core" so many things still affect them, any rules concerning bolt weapons affect them and as veterans they can be kinda punchy.


There is really no specific loadout for these guys. It depends more on opposition.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/10 22:13:31


Post by: godardc


Insularum wrote:
Being extremely pedantic over a typo - but the Ultramarines supplement FAQ seems to give the seal of oath full rerolls to hit and wound in a permanent aura (for core and characters).

Unchanged part of relic: declare a target unit.
New part: when targetting an enemy unit, reroll hits and wounds.

No real interaction between 1st/2nd sentence.


The last faq I heard of is the one of the 27/07/2020, is there a more recent one ?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/10 23:26:56


Post by: hellpato


I did a quick look inside the new codex and IMO the three biggest losers are the scouts in the Elite section (i dont see why i should use them for now) and the eliminator (lost of guided aim and Mortis Round now doing mortal round on an unmodified role of 6) and the land speeder where we cannot do a mix match of different categorie and we are back with land speeder, tornadoes and thyphoons. Now i will look for the winners and how i need to change my RG list.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/10 23:51:24


Post by: Insularum


 godardc wrote:
Insularum wrote:
Being extremely pedantic over a typo - but the Ultramarines supplement FAQ seems to give the seal of oath full rerolls to hit and wound in a permanent aura (for core and characters).

Unchanged part of relic: declare a target unit.
New part: when targetting an enemy unit, reroll hits and wounds.

No real interaction between 1st/2nd sentence.


The last faq I heard of is the one of the 27/07/2020, is there a more recent one ?

All FAQs updated at the same time as the wargear updates as of 05/10/2020 - mainly power weapons and the like but also aura and buffing abilities have been re-done to reference <CORE> were appropriate for the existing SM supplements. It's really OTT to fuss over it, but it seems to me like the two parts of the relic are now mutually exclusive.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 01:30:46


Post by: Nevelon


OK, some random thoughts from my fist parse of the new codex.

WTF is up with the bloat? Why did we need a separate entry for the upcoming gravis captain with heavy bolt rife? He is one line off from the old one “may swap boltstorm gauntlet for master crafted HBR” Done. Did the pred need to be two entries? I can see things like the land speeders being split, as they come with different PLs. But come on GW! This is crazy. And the byzantine lists of what gear you can take just to match the models they make is getting stupid. KISS.

Chapter locking some of the gear is silly. Like the captain options. And would it have hurt them to just add the HF to the heavy weapon list for tacs/devs? Salamander players want to know.

Banners work on all core units. Dreadnoughts are core. Even in death, they get one more swing.

I like how a lot of random stuff is now keywords. Sure, you cant push a whole line of rhinos up and pop smoke on all of them. But you also don’t give up your round of shooting to do it anymore. Things like autolaunchers on repulsors are a lot more worth it.

Look at the keywords. The might surprise you. Things like outflank and smokescreen show up in places you might not expect (scouts, scout bikes, etc)

Rhinos lost repair.

Relic terminators cost more for no good reason. Well, you pay for the price of flexing you gear. Which you then have to pay for. My 5 man squad of capheracti are pretty much just overpriced assault terminators now. On the plus side, each LC gives you +1A. Will it blend? I think so.

Thunder hammers got the nerfbat. Hard. They are one worse AP and one more D then a powerfist. Which is approaching a lateral shift. But still cost 1.5x to 2x as much as the fist. Pass. Especially now that fists are a flat 2D. Chainfists are another lateral choice (but priced the same as a fist). Extra point of AP, but going from 3 to 4 is not the same as going from 3 to 2. And d3 variable damage, but max vs. vehicles. Honestly, they should all cost the same.

Veteran intercessors can take HBP/Chainswords. That’s a zillion attacks. Might have to dredge up some vet shoulderpads. Or just white trim a 5 man squad. Big boys can’t fit in TDA to get the honors anyway.

The intercessors’s GL is now just a weapon, so you can fire it in addition to the rifle. Not even as a combi, just CHONK and eat a grenade.

Infiltrators medic got changed. No longer a mini apothocary, but ignore the first failed save. Simpler, and lets you shrug off a lascannon, but only good if constantly taking fire. Which they probably are.

Contemptors got their profile flattened a bit. No longer degrades, but not as great to start. All the dreads got the -1 dam to hit, just always on. And the Ven still has his 6+++. And they are core. Good time to be mortally wounded.

Combat shields are 5++ and +1 to armor saves. Need to see who can take them that I don’t already have one modeled for. Might just be assault marine sarge.

Ultramarine Eliminator squads are going to make Eldar look like slow pokes. Tac doctrine, so move and shoot like you didn’t. 6”, shoot, (sarge with his carbine) move another 6”

TFC lost a point of S and AP. Ouch.

AA tanks look to be really good at their job, but just kinda OK at non-aircraft. Which is good.

Like the new tank, not the new speeders.

LSS for the same assault rule as the impulsor, but scouts are no longer ObSec. Or troops. Or durable. But you can dump them right in someone’s lap. Or the could just shoot from the speeder. Might be nice for some secondary objectives.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 01:53:43


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Nevelon wrote:
Why did we need a separate entry for the upcoming gravis captain with heavy bolt rife?
 Nevelon wrote:
And the byzantine lists of what gear you can take just to match the models they make is getting stupid.
 Nevelon wrote:
Chapter locking some of the gear is silly. Like the captain options. And would it have hurt them to just add the HF to the heavy weapon list for tacs/devs?
You should know the answer to these by now.

 Nevelon wrote:
Thunder hammers got the nerfbat. Hard. They are one worse AP and one more D then a powerfist. Which is approaching a lateral shift. But still cost 1.5x to 2x as much as the fist.
Typical GW over-balance.

 Nevelon wrote:
Combat shields are 5++ and +1 to armor saves. Need to see who can take them that I don’t already have one modeled for. Might just be assault marine sarge.
If it's the only mini that comes with that bit, expect it to be the only model that can take it.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 02:06:54


Post by: Nevelon


I wasn’t shocked or surprised by much. Not my first rodeo. But disappointed by the usual patterns and recent trends.

Is what it is. Still looks like a fun codex.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 04:24:34


Post by: Lemondish


Hoping for an errata to clarify chapter command upgrade prices and the Primaris Apothecary keywords since he can't be upgraded currently.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 07:29:45


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 13:21:32


Post by: hellpato


No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing


Dont forget the mortis round change the mortal wound of 6+ with unmodified 6.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/11 23:08:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I don't understand Heavy Intercessors.

They're basically a bulkier version of regular Intercessors, which is obvious, with their own mirrored version of the weapons.

Except not...

They've got a Rapid Fire version, an Assault Version and a Heavy version. However their special Heavy Bolter variant is Heavy in all instances.

Doesn't this run counter to the unit's abilities? Why would you ever bring the Hellstorm Heavy Bolter on a unit that has Assault Guns and is therefore, by design, meant to be moving around?

Yes, I know that Heavy Intercessor make great objective babysitters, so really the assault variants of their guns are unlikely to be taken, but I can't figure out why they were saddled with a weapon that runs counter to their intended use. It'd be like allowing Eliminators to upgrade one man in the unit to have a Plasma Pistol.

And that's before we get to the obvious errors in the unit entry that have to have come about because at one stage they decided to give the Heavy Intercessor guns new names but didn't bother to check the whole entry.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 00:00:05


Post by: Insularum


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't understand Heavy Intercessors.

They're basically a bulkier version of regular Intercessors, which is obvious, with their own mirrored version of the weapons.

Except not...

They've got a Rapid Fire version, an Assault Version and a Heavy version. However their special Heavy Bolter variant is Heavy in all instances.

Doesn't this run counter to the unit's abilities? Why would you ever bring the Hellstorm Heavy Bolter on a unit that has Assault Guns and is therefore, by design, meant to be moving around?

Yes, I know that Heavy Intercessor make great objective babysitters, so really the assault variants of their guns are unlikely to be taken, but I can't figure out why they were saddled with a weapon that runs counter to their intended use. It'd be like allowing Eliminators to upgrade one man in the unit to have a Plasma Pistol.

And that's before we get to the obvious errors in the unit entry that have to have come about because at one stage they decided to give the Heavy Intercessor guns new names but didn't bother to check the whole entry.

It only looks weird as it's a new situation for marines, it's existed forever that rapid fire weapons (which also like to move close) have been accompanied by heavy weapons as a specialist choice - it's no different for assault weapons unless you are dead set on advance moving them all the time. For each of the heavy bolt rifle variants, if you expect you'll have targets that the higher damage stat will benefit against it will generally be better to include the heavy bolter variant - the damage and rate of fire increase will have a greater positive impact than -1 to hit for moving.

Also, the assault variant weapon is possibly the best all round version of the three. It benefits the most from doctrines, and will put out the highest rate of fire in all circumstances. Doing some very rough and ready calculations, in tactical doctrine the assault version with matching heavy seems to be the most cost effective 2W marine killer regardless of whether you move them or not.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 03:09:19


Post by: bullyboy


I think Thunderhammers still have a place, there are quite a few 3W models out there where a fist will need 2 kills to finish the model, the hammer just needs 1.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 03:50:53


Post by: Leth


There are enough FNP type abilities out there as well that D3 will hold value against 2w targets


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 04:26:20


Post by: bort


Scouts are such a weird one, in Troops they were definitely pretty darn strong with their extra deploy and weapon options in 8th. But as Elites now they seem kind of overpriced without ob sec nor 2 wounds. And, it's funny fluffwise to have the trainees in the Elite section. I'd have guessed they could have simply left them as Troops now that the rest of the codex got buffed around them. 1w vs scout deploy is a valid tradeoff without the Elite penalty too.

This definitely changed the math on the Scout Bikes I finally just finished painting. The codex added so many more mobile shooty options to compare against and then the regular bikers and Outriders are super viable.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 10:01:41


Post by: Cybtroll


I've got a question for you, specifically because you've probably have the Codex in a different language than mine, so it's worth checking if it's a localization or a generalized issue.

The upgrade to Master of the Forge: how much it cost? I found +20 points in the rules description, but +30 points in the final summary with point cost.
This BTW applies to almost all the roles with the exception of Chapter Master: are 10 pt less in the paragraph rather than in the summary.

How much really it is? Considering the rule, I suppose +20 makes more sense... but how can I trust the summary if they botched probably the most important part and the easier to double-check?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 15:29:34


Post by: Flavius Infernus


So I have about 50 jump pack guys for my Raven Guard army. 30 of them are assault squads with bp&chainsword and 2 flamers in each unit.

When I'm looking at point costs , though, I can see that vanguard vets are only 1 point more than assault marines. I would lose the flamers, but each bp&cs guy would get an extra attack, and I can just make up a couple of extra guys to replace the flamers, even give the new guys vanguard weapon options, lightning claws or whatever. 30 guys with 2 attacks base plus chainsword plus shock attack makes up for losing some flamers, right?

Plus battalion has more elite slots than fast (I'm making a skyhammer army with speeders, jump packs and aircraft), so vanguards don't use up my speeder slots.

I keep hearing people who are keen on the assault sergeant's combat shield, but a vanguard sergeant can take a *storm* shield for 1 point less, and has access to all the same melee weapon options plus relic blade, and the melee weapons are mostly 1-2 points cheaper than an assault sergeants.

Am I missing something here? Are vanguards the bargain that they look like? Is there any reason to take assault marines over vanguard vets right now?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 16:44:59


Post by: bmsattler


I think that Vanguard Veterans were a better deal in 8th edition than Assault Marines, and I think they are even better in 9th edition.

I believe you can also give individual Vanguard Veterans two hand flamers each. Something I'm considering especially for Salamanders who could use a little mobility.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 17:08:35


Post by: Xenomancers


 Crimson wrote:
So how are people feeling about the Sternguard now? They lost their stratagem, so there is less incentive to keep the special issue bolters. Still, the bolters are pretty decent and don't cost any extra. Assuming that I want to put them in a pod, should I just keep them cheap or are the options worth it? And if they're which ones?

I think spamming stern is the way to go. 2 MM/Grav in a 5 man unit - 4 in a 10 man.

Capt
Lib

Take 15 stalker intercessors
Take 25 Stern combat squaded in 3 drop pods With Multi Meltas + your characters.
Max out on Redemptor dreads

Rest of points into
bikes/outriders/ATV/Eradicators to whatever suits your fashion.





9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/12 19:03:28


Post by: hellpato


 Cybtroll wrote:
I've got a question for you, specifically because you've probably have the Codex in a different language than mine, so it's worth checking if it's a localization or a generalized issue.

The upgrade to Master of the Forge: how much it cost? I found +20 points in the rules description, but +30 points in the final summary with point cost.
This BTW applies to almost all the roles with the exception of Chapter Master: are 10 pt less in the paragraph rather than in the summary.

How much really it is? Considering the rule, I suppose +20 makes more sense... but how can I trust the summary if they botched probably the most important part and the easier to double-check?


I have the same though about scout until i looker deeper. They have the smokecreen keyword, they have concealed positions and outflank rules and they have access to the special weapon.

5 scouts with one flamer outflanking a captain in the back and add some smokescreen, you got some good distraction. They will be better as troop but i understand why they are in the elite section. Just need to use them better.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 11:14:01


Post by: Flavius Infernus


bmsattler wrote:
I think that Vanguard Veterans were a better deal in 8th edition than Assault Marines, and I think they are even better in 9th edition.

I believe you can also give individual Vanguard Veterans two hand flamers each. Something I'm considering especially for Salamanders who could use a little mobility.


Hand flamers would be a compromise worth trying, I think. But unfortunately they're limited to Deathwatch and Blood Angels only.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 11:49:07


Post by: bmsattler


Thanks for setting me straight on that! I was looking over the points section instead of the pistol list.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 18:32:05


Post by: Arcanis161


Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 19:21:13


Post by: Sotahullu


Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 21:37:41


Post by: hellpato


Sotahullu wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 21:42:50


Post by: Heafstaag


How are those new turrets? Are they decent? I am debating about picking a some up when I get the codex this week. Are they useful? Mediocre?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/13 21:58:20


Post by: Sotahullu


 hellpato wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.



I didn't say that Veterans are bad, just uninteresting for Elite choice. I just see no reason just to take regular version to fill troop slots and take terminators or bladeguard instead. Or in my case, Death Company Intercessors.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 01:28:43


Post by: BrianDavion


 hellpato wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.


now if only they could use honor the chapter


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 03:01:05


Post by: argonak


 hellpato wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.


I think they might actually be something worth putting in a Repulsor. Of course then you're looking at 500 points in a single spot, and everyone and their brother will shoot the crud out of it. So maybe not.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 04:03:52


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
now if only they could use honor the chapter
They could have easily made it 2 CP on Assault Intercessors, Veteran Intercessors, Assault Squads and Vanguard Squads, and then 3 CP for all other units.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 12:14:19


Post by: Medicinal Carrots


 hellpato wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.

Vanguard Vets with 1 lightning claw and a chainsword cost the same and will outperform them in melee against any target. Even Primaris only strats will not make up the difference.

Plus the Vanguard have cheaper transports and other options, like jump packs and storm shields. There is no good reason to take melee Vet Intercessors.

There's maybe an argument to be made for shooty Vet Intercessors, but I'd much rather take regular Intercessors (lose 1 attack for obsec), or Sternguard instead.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 15:18:50


Post by: Niiai


Never mind.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 16:23:47


Post by: Crimson


So how are people feeling about the chapter master upgrade? It is rather pricy, but assuming one would want to use it what sort of captains are the best candidates for it? The relic would be pretty nice if comboed with gravis for T6 and 2+ save or with the Primaris captain with a shield for effective 1+ save and T5.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/14 16:47:18


Post by: Flavius Infernus


 Crimson wrote:
So how are people feeling about the chapter master upgrade? It is rather pricy, but assuming one would want to use it what sort of captains are the best candidates for it? The relic would be pretty nice if comboed with gravis for T6 and 2+ save or with the Primaris captain with a shield for effective 1+ save and T5.


I think 8th edition supplement chapter masters with names, (eg. Shrike and Kantor) are still costed at their original 8th edition points right now, but they have the 9th edition chapter master abilities in the FAQs. So they are kind of a bargain right now compared to scratchmade chapter masters.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/16 00:10:02


Post by: bort


What do people think of the Whirlwind at 125pts?
I like that it finally has a strat with some niche use, I really want to take one, but it also seems like it's still paying the points cost for it's short lived time in 8th.


And has anyone seen anything definitive on the chapter specific litanies from Faith & Fury?
Logically, I think if GW wanted them to be used they would have put 1 more page in the codex and included them. The knowingGW part of my brain says, they probably forgot and since they didn't FAQ them away (in the F&F FAQ anyways), they are all still legal to use...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/16 12:19:26


Post by: Niiai


I do not really see the stratagem as that good. 2 CP to deny them the posabilaty to pay 1 cp and not fire overwatch is not so good in general, although as a niche it can be good.

How often in 9th edition do you fight 2 turns in a row? Not often. Perhaps if you can shoot them and then deny anybody fighting first if they charge. I do not have the corect wording. If so, that becomes much more powerfull.

It is indirect fire, so you can hide the whirldwind a bit. 125 is very cheap for the SM codex. Againt an MSU oponent it can be very good at shooting lone units of objectives, like guards, guardians, gretschins, boys, gaunts etc.

It depends on the rest of your list. The more options you take away from your opponent (a list that can preasure in some way) the better the whirlwind becomes.

I think it can be good in SM or BA. If the enemy is clumped together you can engage them. If they spread out the whirlwind can thin ranks.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/16 16:20:10


Post by: bort


The strat is 1cp to both deny them overwatch and give them fight last until your next turn. Which seems to me it covers both preventing them from paying to interrupt if you charge and making them fight after you if they charge in their turn, which seems nice vs any assault threat that doesn't start from reserve.

If you think the base chassis and fire power for 125 is good, then it seems a very appealing choice. I think it's slightly expensive for the shots and you cant clear a point with a single whirlwind, but, I was looking for something to camp a point in my own backfield and the tank chassis doesn't seem too bad for that.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/17 15:09:53


Post by: Weazel


Judiciar, yes or no? Especially in a SW army with heroic interventions galore? Kinda on the fence about him, could be an amazing deterrent against charging in the right company.. Maybe with a bunch of Bladeguard? Previously you would have taken a Wolf Lord or Battle Leader with Armour of Russ but that is no longer an option..


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/17 18:49:13


Post by: JNAProductions


Thoughts on what Super Doctrines aren't worth it, especially combined with good base Chapter Tactics?

I was idly musing about a list with a fast melee element (either BA or SW-leaning SW, for those tasty W4 Thunderwolf Cavalry) and a Dark Angels firebase, to benefit from +1 to-hit. Neither the DA nor SW Super Doctrine seem super worth it, though the BA one is nice.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/19 09:15:23


Post by: Niiai


What do people do for troops?

I play SW, but that thread is quite dead after beeing bad for a big edition. Grey Hunters/Blood Claws are better then regular tactical squad marines IMHO. But they need transport suport. Nothing wrong with that, but they eat points out of the list.

It seems like a good idea to just take a small minimum unit of troops. Intercessor Squads in minimum numbers, perhaps with a grenade launcher seems to be cheap to just grab 3 and sitt them down in mid objectives for some honest work. While the rest 1700/1685 points of your list puts 'in the work'. Probably Heavy Interscessors could be nice to sit on home objective and shoot. (These are not out yet for sales though, is that correct?)

What do you people think?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/19 09:49:38


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


I plan on running a 10 man unit of Incursors pretty much always. Early board domination is priceless and the support in the current codex is so efficient you won't miss those 200 pts, imo. A backbone of Eradicators and ATVs is so cheap, don't even talk about the dakka Gladiator, you can have some fun in those troops slots.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/19 22:58:12


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I'm thinking small 5-man squads of Intercessors backed up by like-squads of Heavy Intercessors.

I'll probably end up with a 2:1 ratio, so 10 Intercessors and 5 Heavy Intercessors backing them up.

Somewhere in there I'll find room for Incursors and Infiltrators.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 01:49:00


Post by: BrianDavion


So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 02:54:53


Post by: lindsay40k


BrianDavion wrote:
So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...

A few editions ago, being able to do this with one unit (via Logan) made Space Wolves a terror. Not looking forwards to facing unlimited Melta spam


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
 hellpato wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
Any Primaris units, specifically Infantry units, that aren't worth taking atm?


Veteran Intercessors. Cool idea on paper but there is really nothing that makes it stand out.


Wrong... give them a chainsword and you got 51 attacks on charge for 220 pts.


now if only they could use honor the chapter

TBH I think they’re almost as much affected by losing ObSec as they are by not being able to frenzy

They’re exactly the sort of unit that can brawl their way to get within reach of an objective. One surviving Grot, Genestealer, or Cultist is enough to hold on and deny them a hill. And the new morale rules make that sort of situation more likely.

I set aside the parts to make a squad of VI’s, shoulder pads and all, but never got round to it. The idea was drum-fed bolters and chainswords (signifying their +1A), advancing and using the auto hit strat until they were able to deliver their smash sergeant. Now, chainswords on a shooty Intercessor unit would be grossly non-WYSIWYG, and the two strats that made them scary are dead. I came here to get ideas on what to do with the project and now I’m even more stumped as to what they’d be good for :/

Anyone been using massed assault intercessors?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 07:41:47


Post by: Weazel


BrianDavion wrote:
So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...


They might sound scary, until you realize a Drop Pod with 5 MM (10 shots+1 for combi) devastators cost almost 300 points, cannot arrive round 1 (in matched play) and are easily screened to deny melta range. You can get 6 Eradicators and have points left over who dish out 16 melta shots (2x multimeltas). It's not hard to get within 24" of something with current board sizes. ONLY if you can get the drop within 12" they might be better than Eradicators but missing a whole turn of shooting as a trade off don't make them very appealing to me.

Just goes to show that Eradicators are way too cheap. Add 10-20ppm per dude or lose the doubletap and they return to the realm of reasonable.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 08:27:21


Post by: BrianDavion


 Weazel wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
So a lot of people are, understanably fixated on eradicators but it occurs to me devestators with multi melta's might be scarier. drop em behind enemy lines turn one, and slag something expensive...


They might sound scary, until you realize a Drop Pod with 5 MM (10 shots+1 for combi) devastators cost almost 300 points, cannot arrive round 1 (in matched play) and are easily screened to deny melta range. You can get 6 Eradicators and have points left over who dish out 16 melta shots (2x multimeltas). It's not hard to get within 24" of something with current board sizes. ONLY if you can get the drop within 12" they might be better than Eradicators but missing a whole turn of shooting as a trade off don't make them very appealing to me.

Just goes to show that Eradicators are way too cheap. Add 10-20ppm per dude or lose the doubletap and they return to the realm of reasonable.


drop pods can arrive turn 1 can't they? or is there a rule I missed the latest chapter approved?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 08:31:15


Post by: Niiai


Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 09:00:31


Post by: Weazel


 Niiai wrote:
Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.


I need a reference on this since in the matched play rules it clearly says (can't remember verbatim) that no reinforcements or reserves may arrive on the first game round. Nothing on the Drop Pod datasheet trump this rule as far as I can tell.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 09:14:07


Post by: Mr Morden


 Weazel wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.


I need a reference on this since in the matched play rules it clearly says (can't remember verbatim) that no reinforcements or reserves may arrive on the first game round. Nothing on the Drop Pod datasheet trump this rule as far as I can tell.


It does say that it can be set up in the reinforcements phase of the your 1st, 2nd, or 3rd turn, regardless of mission rules


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 09:21:39


Post by: Niiai


The line on the drop pod datasheet that spesifies it can arrive turn 1, 2 or 3 iregardless of scenario rules I belive. Unless the ruling changed from 8th edition to a deseptivly similar rule in 9th. I never played them in 8th, but acording to the internett it was a fact.

The old wording was : "Matched Play: This model and any units embarked aboard it are exempt from the Tactical Reserves matched play rule, except that if it and any units embarked aboard it have not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round, they count as having been destroyed." Now it uses the wording regardless of misison rules. I have not bothered to look further into this, but I am sure you can bring it to a YMDA.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 09:39:56


Post by: Weazel


Some scenarios/missions say you can't place any units in reserves, I believe that exempt for Drop Pods are for these missions. Turn 1,2 or 3 is just there as you can bring it down turn 1 in open play or narrative play, but I would still say that the matched play restriction is stronger than that.

Teleport Strike also says you can set up a unit in the reinforcement step of one of your movement phases but I'm confident you can't bring down any terminators on the first game round (as per matched play rules quoted earlier).


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 10:00:34


Post by: Niiai


You might be right. In that case it is a functional differense then how it worked in 8th. I made a YMDA on that.

For further posts, if you knew about how they worked before and how they would work differently now you would come over as better if you pointed out that it does in fact have a functional change from how it used to work to how it does work now.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 10:03:45


Post by: BrianDavion


 Weazel wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.


I need a reference on this since in the matched play rules it clearly says (can't remember verbatim) that no reinforcements or reserves may arrive on the first game round. Nothing on the Drop Pod datasheet trump this rule as far as I can tell.


it specificly says in the rules it may be set up in the 1st 2nd or 3rd phase, specific rules trump general rules. it's been like this since marine codex 8.5


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 10:15:38


Post by: Niiai


Found it.

MPGT2020: Page 80. Strategic Reserves.

Second Paragraf (Parafracing): Units that can deep strike on their datasheet do not follow these rules.

MPGT2020: Under misison rules.Page 6.

Under "10: Decleare Reserves and Transports" (Praraphrasing): Units can not arrive from reserves turn 1.

Drop pods says they ignore misison rules. So you can do it.

To summarice, nothing in the base rules prevents strategic reserves turn 1 if they already have a way to strategic reserves. What is preventing that are the misison rules spesificly. And drop pods say the ignore misison rules spesificly in that regard.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 10:28:35


Post by: Weazel


BrianDavion wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Comparing anuthing to eradicators is dumb because they are clearly undercosted. Any comparison to any unit will be bad. In fact you should probably include as many eradicators as legal and then build your list from there in a 2000 point optimal list.

Also, you seems to have missed that drop pods do in fact arrive turn 1. One of, if not the only unit who does so.


I need a reference on this since in the matched play rules it clearly says (can't remember verbatim) that no reinforcements or reserves may arrive on the first game round. Nothing on the Drop Pod datasheet trump this rule as far as I can tell.


it specificly says in the rules it may be set up in the 1st 2nd or 3rd phase, specific rules trump general rules. it's been like this since marine codex 8.5


Jump Pack troops and Terminator also have a "specific rule" that allows them to be setup as reinforcements, and there is a Reinforcements step on turn 1. You are saying that anything that can Deep Strike in the Codex Space Marines can do so in the first turn. Even if it very specifically says in Matched Play rules (Core book p. 282 paragraph 3) that it is not allowed.

I suppose the question is whether the rules for "Eternal War Mission Pack" are "Mission Rules" or not, since Drop Pods ignore "Mission Rules" in this regard. There is a header for "Mission Rules" in certain missions and I believe Drop Pods ignore these rules only, but YMMV.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 10:46:03


Post by: Niiai


Please do not read to much into what I am saying following: Jump Pack troops and Temrinators, in fact any troop that can be sett up elsewhere then on the battlefied, can arrive turn 1. This is a combination of the wording on the datasheet on the unit that allows it, and the rules governing that found here:

"MPGT2020: Page 80. Strategic Reserves.
Second Paragraf (Parafracing): Units that can deep strike on their datasheet do not follow these rules."

Then it talks about units that do not have that abilaty to be sett up elsewhere. They can pay CP to be sett up in strategic resrves and can not arrive turn 1, etc. What prevents all these strategic reserves on datasheets to arrive turn one is not in the core rules. It is in the mission rules.

This is adressed in the MPGT2020: Under misison rules.Page 6.
Under "10: Decleare Reserves and Transports" (Praraphrasing): Units can not arrive from reserves turn 1.

It can also be found in the big rulebook under matched play on page 281 is "10: Decleare Reserves and Transports" (Praraphrasing): Units can not arrive from reserves turn 1." Similarly page 333 for Crusade Mission pack.

If you do not play any of these missions packs nothing prevents temrinators from ariving from reserves turn 1. I would however suggest that if you make your own rules you follow the mission guidelines. However, the wording of the drop pods ignore mission rules regulating this. And lo and behold the emperor provides.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 12:30:41


Post by: Weazel


Let's keep the conversation in the YMDC thread tbh. But after reading through that thread I might be inclined to change my position on the matter. HOWEVER, until Eradicators are fixed (it is inevitable at this point I suppose) I don't really feel too hyped about Drop Pod "melta bomb". Even if you can come down turn 1 it is still too easy to screen to deny that juicy melta rule. However it is obviously easier to acquire valid firing lines compared to 5" moving Eradicators...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 18:17:59


Post by: bmsattler


In regards to Eradicators being better than everything, let's look at them compared to Attack Bikes.

A squad of 3x Eradicators with one Multi-Melta will be 130 points. They will get 2x more melta shots per turn. They can move through buildings without penalty. They also take up Heavy slots.

Attack Bikes will cost 165 for a squadron of 3 with Multi-Meltas. They move 14 instead of 5, have the same Toughness and one more wound each, have the same attacks, advance an automatic 6', and get twin boltguns.

I'm running 6x Attack Bikes in my White Scars army and zero Eradicators.

That said, I really like Heavy Melta Rifle Eradicators in Ultramarines.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 19:23:29


Post by: Niiai


Yeah. Somebody compared eradicators to multimeltalandspeeders at 70 points.

What makes eradicators good seem to be the shoot twice.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 20:48:41


Post by: CKO


Are quad heavy bolters 2 damage now?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 21:26:57


Post by: bort


Yeah, despite all the Eradicator hate right now, I don't see them going above 50-55pts unless attack bikes and the ATV also go up. And even with that, 60 tops.

I'd really hope the landspeeder doesn't go up, cause I think it's a touch too expensive vs the other options already. In terms of pure stats and fly it's passable at 15pts over an attack bike. The big problem is it's a noncore vehicle. If I'm losing reroll potential and giving up secondary points, I think it should be more like 60-65pts.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/20 21:58:31


Post by: Niiai


Do the landspeeder stil have flying? It has 18(!) in movement, with a 12" range for the +2 damage. So that is a 30" range for good damage, and 48" for regular damage. This is a lot.

My old landspeeders are melta/flamer from 5th edition. I think they are stil usable. Melta shots one one thing, flamers on another. If they attack I can overwatch.

But in a vacune, the superior speed will make sure bikes can shoot eradicators before eradicators can shoot bikes. In the landspeeder comprison the speeders cost to much to clean out eradicators.

I do not know. Eradicators and bikes are winners though. Landspeeders not so much. Unless I am missing something melta deveatators are not winners.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 06:56:28


Post by: Venerable Ironclad


I don't understand how people can't see the potential in Melta Devastators. A Melta Devastator is 2pts cheaper than an Eradicator but has just as many shots with the same range with the option to split fire. One model in the unit get +1 BS a turn and once per game a model in the unit can fire twice. You can place more models in the unit, meaning the enemy has to chew through 12 wounds before a Melta Devastator dies, meanwhile every 3 wounds is one less Melta rifle for the Eradicators. On top of that this unit can be placed inside a Droppod and your trying to tell me that a 5" move is more effective than the ability to arrive any where on the board 9" away. Is it just because the Multi Melta is a heavy weapon, because there are ways around that. I play Ironhands and don't have to deal with that in the first turn.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 08:13:33


Post by: Niiai


If you can make a case for devestators I would love that. I saw one thread on eradicators quite early. When I did not see it after people had some time to look through the codex, so I started a new one

The attack bike comparison is good. And I am giving that one to the attack bikes.

The devestators I am not so shure. While cheaper and two shots yoy loose out on T5 and an ekstra wound. That is very relevant vs small small arms fire and overcharged plasma.

Hitting on 4's after moving is not sexy. And a drop pod is 70. Perhaps if you combined with with a character, or perhaps sole lithanies from a chaplain. But now it is not cheap anymore. For that price you could just take twice the number of eradicators.

On the other side of the choin, what makes good eradicator killers? The heavy version of the plasma primsris as a long range and D3 on their weapon. Sounds good. Redemtor dreadnough plasma the same.

Anybother D3 weapons?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 08:38:24


Post by: bort


MM Devastators vs Eradicators isn’t a good straight up comparison, the Devs will lose that one. Sure you can add some bolter guys to protect the meltas, but buying those wounds is going to cost about the same as simply buying another Eradicator. Which would you rather have for 40 pts, 2.2 bolters or a t5 body with 2 melta shots? The current argument for Devs is to make use of a pod/transport that primaris can’t or a weapon option primaris don’t have.

The straight comparison would be much more even if the Eradicator cost about the same as the mm dev + 1 bolter dev.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 09:33:57


Post by: Weazel


A Drop Pod isn't exactly free either. And some chapters (e.g. Space Wolves) can't take bolter guys as ablative wounds with Long Fangs anyway so there's that.

I mean I will probably try Melta devs in a drop pod at some point for sure. I don't play in tournaments so I'm not going to invest heavily into Eradicators since they will be nerfed at some point anyway. But as long as Eradicators exist with their current rules and points cost the comparison isn't really favorable for Devastators.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 15:12:58


Post by: MinscS2


 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
I don't understand how people can't see the potential in Melta Devastators. A Melta Devastator is 2pts cheaper than an Eradicator but has just as many shots with the same range with the option to split fire. One model in the unit get +1 BS a turn and once per game a model in the unit can fire twice. You can place more models in the unit, meaning the enemy has to chew through 12 wounds before a Melta Devastator dies, meanwhile every 3 wounds is one less Melta rifle for the Eradicators. On top of that this unit can be placed inside a Droppod and your trying to tell me that a 5" move is more effective than the ability to arrive any where on the board 9" away. Is it just because the Multi Melta is a heavy weapon, because there are ways around that. I play Ironhands and don't have to deal with that in the first turn.


10 Devastators with 4 Multimeltas. 1 Combi-Melta and a Cherub in a Drop Pod is 345 pts.
20 T4 3+ wounds, 8 24" meltashots (10 once), some with +1 BS.

8 Eradicators with 2 Multimeltas is 340 pts
24 T5 3+ wounds, 10 24" meltashots (20 when Obliterating).

The problem is that once you add some ablative wounds and the drop pod, you're essentially paying as much as you would for two moderate sized squads of Eradicators.
The Devastators have some ablative wounds sure, but they also have fewer wounds, and at lower T.

I'm not advocating Eradicator-spamm (I don't even use them myself), but I can see why people would go for Eradicators instead.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 16:02:43


Post by: Da-Rock


Looking for advice on using the following White Scars setup for some fun:

Land Raider Crusader
x5 Assault Centurions
Apothecary

Use a combo of Stratagems to either set it up for a middle burst if going first or Outflanking it......then using Wind Rider to double move and Lightening Disembarkation to have 5 pop out to shoot x4 Hurricane Bolters + a MC Hurricane bolter on the Sergeant to hopefully annihilate a squad etc.

Is it just too much? I know the table setup and the army I face will dictate almost everything.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/21 21:19:26


Post by: Flavius Infernus


 Da-Rock wrote:
Looking for advice on using the following White Scars setup for some fun:

Land Raider Crusader
x5 Assault Centurions
Apothecary

Use a combo of Stratagems to either set it up for a middle burst if going first or Outflanking it......then using Wind Rider to double move and Lightening Disembarkation to have 5 pop out to shoot x4 Hurricane Bolters + a MC Hurricane bolter on the Sergeant to hopefully annihilate a squad etc.

Is it just too much? I know the table setup and the army I face will dictate almost everything.


It seems like 9th is more favorable to cheaper, smaller units with efficient firepower. And because of eradicators, I theorize (I haven't had a chance to try it out yet because of the pandemic) that multi-wound marine models without an invul with struggle to survive.

If the land raider doesn't get blown up turn 1, this deathstar will definitely kill the crap out of something. But then when everything is in the open, the eradicators will come out from the board edges on turn 2. Try some test rolls with what a couple of units of eradicators will do to 5 centurions and a land raider.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/22 00:00:20


Post by: Medicinal Carrots


bort wrote:
MM Devastators vs Eradicators isn’t a good straight up comparison, the Devs will lose that one. Sure you can add some bolter guys to protect the meltas, but buying those wounds is going to cost about the same as simply buying another Eradicator. Which would you rather have for 40 pts, 2.2 bolters or a t5 body with 2 melta shots? The current argument for Devs is to make use of a pod/transport that primaris can’t or a weapon option primaris don’t have.

The straight comparison would be much more even if the Eradicator cost about the same as the mm dev + 1 bolter dev.

Agreed. Eradicators with just the base rifles pay 20 points per melta shot (30 per hit).
5 Devastators with 4 multi-meltas pay 21.25 points per melta shot. They also have the move and shoot penalty (so 42.25 per hit), 1 point less toughness, 1 more wound, and better transport options.

Devastators aren't a bad melta platform, but the problem is that Eradicators are just so much better at that role (and I'd argue Attack bikes are as well, trading some offensive efficiency - 41.25 per hit - for mobility and another wound per model over Eradicators). Where Devastators are best seems to be as a grav platform. There's not really much competition for the grav role.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/22 03:30:50


Post by: Da-Rock


 Flavius Infernus wrote:
 Da-Rock wrote:
Looking for advice on using the following White Scars setup for some fun:

Land Raider Crusader
x5 Assault Centurions
Apothecary

Use a combo of Stratagems to either set it up for a middle burst if going first or Outflanking it......then using Wind Rider to double move and Lightening Disembarkation to have 5 pop out to shoot x4 Hurricane Bolters + a MC Hurricane bolter on the Sergeant to hopefully annihilate a squad etc.

Is it just too much? I know the table setup and the army I face will dictate almost everything.


It seems like 9th is more favorable to cheaper, smaller units with efficient firepower. And because of eradicators, I theorize (I haven't had a chance to try it out yet because of the pandemic) that multi-wound marine models without an invul with struggle to survive.

If the land raider doesn't get blown up turn 1, this deathstar will definitely kill the crap out of something. But then when everything is in the open, the eradicators will come out from the board edges on turn 2. Try some test rolls with what a couple of units of eradicators will do to 5 centurions and a land raider.


I agree with the downside to Deathstars as this one is around 800 points. I love Centurions, but I also don't like anything that doesn't have a counter.....that is just plain boring to have an ultra unit on the board. Eradicators can come off the board, but so can anything White Scars has including the Deathstar.

I would either wait for it to show and use the Deathstar or something else to wipe them off the board. The Apothecary can also bring back a Centurion + heal one. The speed and Outflanking ability of White Scars should be able to get to Eradicators.

Eradicators are good, but many are Churching them up to be this boogeyman unit.....so often like the units before them, people find a way to make them go bye bye and quickly. :-)


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/22 20:25:52


Post by: Flavius Infernus


Spoiler:
 Da-Rock wrote:
 Flavius Infernus wrote:
 Da-Rock wrote:
Looking for advice on using the following White Scars setup for some fun:

Land Raider Crusader
x5 Assault Centurions
Apothecary

Use a combo of Stratagems to either set it up for a middle burst if going first or Outflanking it......then using Wind Rider to double move and Lightening Disembarkation to have 5 pop out to shoot x4 Hurricane Bolters + a MC Hurricane bolter on the Sergeant to hopefully annihilate a squad etc.

Is it just too much? I know the table setup and the army I face will dictate almost everything.


It seems like 9th is more favorable to cheaper, smaller units with efficient firepower. And because of eradicators, I theorize (I haven't had a chance to try it out yet because of the pandemic) that multi-wound marine models without an invul with struggle to survive.

If the land raider doesn't get blown up turn 1, this deathstar will definitely kill the crap out of something. But then when everything is in the open, the eradicators will come out from the board edges on turn 2. Try some test rolls with what a couple of units of eradicators will do to 5 centurions and a land raider.


I agree with the downside to Deathstars as this one is around 800 points. I love Centurions, but I also don't like anything that doesn't have a counter.....that is just plain boring to have an ultra unit on the board. Eradicators can come off the board, but so can anything White Scars has including the Deathstar.

I would either wait for it to show and use the Deathstar or something else to wipe them off the board. The Apothecary can also bring back a Centurion + heal one. The speed and Outflanking ability of White Scars should be able to get to Eradicators.

Eradicators are good, but many are Churching them up to be this boogeyman unit.....so often like the units before them, people find a way to make them go bye bye and quickly. :-)


Okay, so laying aside the eradicator argument (and armies that aren’t space marines won’t have eradicators anyway), maybe a more 9th edition question would be how many victory points can your deathstar score?

How many objectives can it hold? Depending on your chapter, you might be able to make the centurions obsec with strats, but one Eldar guardian or ork boy standing next to the land raider, and not doing anything, will prevent it from scoring an objective on its own.

If it’s in reserve, the deathstar can definitely roll onto the table and take whatever objective it can reach, but how many turns will it have to wait off the table and miss out on scoring points until then? Can the rest of your army survive and hold objectives without the deathstar for 1-3 turns, and will there be enough left of your army when the deathstar arrives to continue to hold 2-3 objectives for the rest of the game?

I don’t know if it would be possible because I can’t play the game currently. But if I were playing a xeno army, especially a fast one like Eldar, my temptation would be to let the deathstar hold an objective, feed it sacrificial MSUs, and then focus my attention on all the rest of the army (and the other objectives on the table). Maybe somebody who’s actually gotten to play the game can weigh in on how deathstars work in 9th.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/27 21:10:14


Post by: Xirax


how do you guys equip your vanguard veterans? I run them as blood angels and doing remodelling, but equpiment should be quite the same.

I was thinking a bit expensive aproach:

sgt w/ relic blade & storm shield
3x dual lightning claws
3x power fist & storm shield
3x chainsword & inferno pistol (non BA take for me would be cheaper with bolt pistols)

what do you think?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/27 21:26:53


Post by: MinscS2


Xirax wrote:
how do you guys equip your vanguard veterans? I run them as blood angels and doing remodelling, but equpiment should be quite the same.

I was thinking a bit expensive aproach:

sgt w/ relic blade & storm shield
3x dual lightning claws
3x power fist & storm shield
3x chainsword & inferno pistol (non BA take for me would be cheaper with bolt pistols)

what do you think?


Not BA, but I run them with Lightning Claws and Shields and then a Thunder Hammer on the sergeant.
There's no actual need to have shields on more than half the squad, but I like them to "fight to the last man", and the additional 4-5 claw-attacks will probably not make a difference.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/27 22:09:32


Post by: bmsattler


The Sgt. and one normal guy gets a thunder hammer and chainsword. Then the other 8 get chainswords and storm shields. I have the option to combat squad them with a lot of meat shields and a hidden hammer each. I'm going to build a couple with power fists instead of the hammers, and I'm really looking at the relic blade as well. Lastly, double lightning claws are very appealing. I will have to see if I've got enough terrain to obscure LOS and drop the shields.

I'm running them as White Scars, so I can pay CP to drop them into Assault doctrine at any time for 2 damage/4damage weapons. If my opponent has a lot of shooting and not as much close combat, I'll likely keep them as a squad of 10 for easier tri-pointing. If I'm facing a serious close-range threat I may likely combat squad them so that I can trade a smaller element of my army at a time.

Regardless, if you're putting a storm shield on a model, its going to be one of the first ones to die. Best to make those your cheaper, more expendable squad members instead of an expensive weapon.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/28 13:37:39


Post by: Kebabcito


Want to try this as white scar

- Chaplain bike full cheated, 3x3 outriders flanking the enemies

- Captainwith 5 bladeguards, ancient, apothecary and judicar front line

- Lieutenant with 5 assault intercessors and 3 aggressors looking for objective

- 2x5 assault intercessors into some objectives too

- 2x3 erradicators trying to deal with tanks

- eliminators deployment zone objectives

what do you think? I'm going white scars

Against hordes I've got a lot of choppy guys and 3 aggresors. Against MEQ I'm white scars, I can crush marines at turn 3. Against R8 I'll suffer, but erradicatrs are still not nerfed...


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/28 13:38:32


Post by: Neophyte2012


H all, don't know if this has been discussed, but I wonder is Droppod spam good again?

Now 9TH edition is mostly about mobility, catching objective and do actions. Meanwhile I heard that Droppod now allows you Null deploy once again, and Tactical Squad have 2W made them as tough as Intercessors. So is it a Droppod dominate list viable again?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/28 13:48:07


Post by: Niiai


Neophyte2012 wrote:
H all, don't know if this has been discussed, but I wonder is Droppod spam good again?

Now 9TH edition is mostly about mobility, catching objective and do actions. Meanwhile I heard that Droppod now allows you Null deploy once again, and Tactical Squad have 2W made them as tough as Intercessors. So is it a Droppod dominate list viable again?


Huh. I did not know Drop Pod bypassed the null deployment rule. I know it bypasses turn 1 reserves.

Anyway, I do not think it would be very good. Not knowing how many units you want to deploy the 70 points per drop pod is quite steep. Say 5 or 6 drop pods in your list, that is 350/420 points less that you get units for. Secondly, if your opponent want to be up and close to you then you are paying 420 points to do them a favour.

Space Wolfs, Black Templars or Ultramarines would potensially be good for this. I own 7 drop pods, so please tell me if it is good. :-)

In my experience it was a very unpatient way to suround your enemy and die fast. Back in 5th edition.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/28 19:18:43


Post by: Flavius Infernus


Kebabcito wrote:
Want to try this as white scar

- Chaplain bike full cheated, 3x3 outriders flanking the enemies

- Captainwith 5 bladeguards, ancient, apothecary and judicar front line

- Lieutenant with 5 assault intercessors and 3 aggressors looking for objective

- 2x5 assault intercessors into some objectives too

- 2x3 erradicators trying to deal with tanks

- eliminators deployment zone objectives

what do you think? I'm going white scars

Against hordes I've got a lot of choppy guys and 3 aggresors. Against MEQ I'm white scars, I can crush marines at turn 3. Against R8 I'll suffer, but erradicatrs are still not nerfed...


This is the standard White Scars list that is popular right now, except most people do intercessors in the backfield because they're more durable than eliminators.

If you want to go full on netlist, you should replace your lieutenant with a Reiver Lieutenant with the Vox Espiritum and Rites of War warlord trait, and then add a chief apothecary.

Opponents who have faced your list before will know that, if they don't have the firepower to crack the central block of troops and characters (and most armies don't, especially if you use the apothecary), then they should focus on taking out your bikes, eradicators, and rear-area objective holders so that the giant troop/character block is limited to really only holding one objective at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also remember that in order to benefit from Look Out, Sir, the chaplain has to be within 3” of a unit of 3 models. If the only things near him are minsize outrider units, then your opponent can blow away a few outriders, then target the chaplain.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/28 21:02:46


Post by: Xenomancers


 Niiai wrote:
Neophyte2012 wrote:
H all, don't know if this has been discussed, but I wonder is Droppod spam good again?

Now 9TH edition is mostly about mobility, catching objective and do actions. Meanwhile I heard that Droppod now allows you Null deploy once again, and Tactical Squad have 2W made them as tough as Intercessors. So is it a Droppod dominate list viable again?


Huh. I did not know Drop Pod bypassed the null deployment rule. I know it bypasses turn 1 reserves.

Anyway, I do not think it would be very good. Not knowing how many units you want to deploy the 70 points per drop pod is quite steep. Say 5 or 6 drop pods in your list, that is 350/420 points less that you get units for. Secondly, if your opponent want to be up and close to you then you are paying 420 points to do them a favour.

Space Wolfs, Black Templars or Ultramarines would potensially be good for this. I own 7 drop pods, so please tell me if it is good. :-)

In my experience it was a very unpatient way to suround your enemy and die fast. Back in 5th edition.
The issue with them was always they didn't have good things to transport. Now It can be 10 sterngard with combi flamers...10 devs with 8 MM. A combo of stern and devs...pretty nasty stuff. Stuff that will pretty much be assured to get it's points back if you put it in the right spot with the right targets. I think they will work well in combination with bikes...which are also good now. Use naked bikes to screen the devs/stern and also bring a few HQ bikers along too.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/29 03:54:17


Post by: Tiberius501


Hello friends, was just curious if an all Phobos army could do well. I want to make a small force of Raven Guard in Phobos with Shrike.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/29 04:12:59


Post by: Leth


I think it could work, but you would need to work in some vehicles or something similar for support. Phobos are lacking in anti-tank and any heavy weaponary in general. Maybe some dreads?

However if you are just aiming for a small army(like 1k or less) then I wouldn’t worry about it too much, could work quite well.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/29 04:33:01


Post by: Tiberius501


Yeah it would be 1k. I was thinking something along these lines maybe?

HQ
- Shrike

TROOPS
- 5x Infiltrators
- 5x Infiltrators

ELITES
- 5x Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs, twin claws (converted to have Reiver legs and bodies)
- Invictor Warsuit w/ Autocannon

HEAVY SUPPORT
- 3x Eliminators w/ Las-Fusils

FLYER
- Stormtalon w/ 2x Heavy Bolters, 2x Assault Cannons


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/29 22:16:39


Post by: Xirax


can't google the correct point cost for chief apothecary, is it 15 or 25? codex SM has two different, so has GW said which is correct?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/29 22:38:14


Post by: H.B.M.C.


They haven't. They've released no errata.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/10/30 02:35:36


Post by: Blood Hawk


Xirax wrote:
can't google the correct point cost for chief apothecary, is it 15 or 25? codex SM has two different, so has GW said which is correct?

We don't know until we get the errata. Until then the consensus locally is to use the points in the back of the book.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/01 17:48:02


Post by: Vorkah


So I'm recently getting back into 40k after about 6 years off. I was building a White Scars army and am looking to continue it. I've got some regular biker models that I never ended up building, I'm looking to see what guns I should put on them, like what's viable for them these days. Can anyone help out?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/02 00:06:23


Post by: BrianDavion


Vorkah wrote:
So I'm recently getting back into 40k after about 6 years off. I was building a White Scars army and am looking to continue it. I've got some regular biker models that I never ended up building, I'm looking to see what guns I should put on them, like what's viable for them these days. Can anyone help out?


I think about everything is viable, plasma and melta are both considered "pretty damn good" depending on your needs, for example.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/02 04:40:24


Post by: miscNouns


Also recently getting back into 40k after having taken a break around early 6th ed. I'm planning on going Black templars after getting my hands on some second-hand stuff. What are some good resources for BT in 9th? Can I run crusader squads in drop pods to decent success? I could only find 8th edition resources and nothing really for templars specifically.. Also, with the new index/faq, can Black Templars take librarians? I was told that the PA rules that said no librarians got invalidated.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/02 07:10:33


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


miscNouns wrote:
Also recently getting back into 40k after having taken a break around early 6th ed. I'm planning on going Black templars after getting my hands on some second-hand stuff. What are some good resources for BT in 9th? Can I run crusader squads in drop pods to decent success? I could only find 8th edition resources and nothing really for templars specifically.. Also, with the new index/faq, can Black Templars take librarians? I was told that the PA rules that said no librarians got invalidated.


You might want to check implausible nature on youtube and the black templars subsection on the bolter and chainsword, we have a strong community there. Basically what worked in 8th still does in 9th, using devout push to attack out of an Impulsor for example. We just got better stuff to do it with in the form of Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors ^^


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/03 00:00:54


Post by: Niiai


I know very little about current black templars. Do they stil have a mixed squad of marines and scouts? And do they stil have the emperors champion?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/03 23:54:55


Post by: BrianDavion


 Niiai wrote:
I know very little about current black templars. Do they stil have a mixed squad of marines and scouts? And do they stil have the emperors champion?


yup.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ldTwb1v6UEhFAbdK.pdf
see there for all the rlevant BT rules


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 05:26:12


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Does anyone think that the 8th Ed supplements will get a 2.0 for 9th, with included Crusade stuff?

Does anyone think that Black Templars will get their own supplement?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 06:07:14


Post by: Voss


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Does anyone think that the 8th Ed supplements will get a 2.0 for 9th, with included Crusade stuff?

Eventually, yeah. The fact they included new secondaries in SW and DW suggests they'll get a trivial revamp at some point, just for the sake of reselling them.

Does anyone think that Black Templars will get their own supplement?

Nope. IF, CF and BT have so few datasheets between them that it seems entirely unnecessary, especially with the comparative length of the new supplements.
A new IF one could add 20 odd pages to add crusade stuff, secondaries, and miscellaneous stuff for each and still be the same length as the SW book.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 13:49:21


Post by: Neophyte2012


Hi guys, wanna ask if anyone have thought of how to deal with Harlequins? Looks like these clowns are among the deadliest opponent to Space Marines.

They might look squishy on paper if they are not buffed. However, they have a tons of trick to make themselves almost unkillable. They have army wide 4++ while can make many infantry and bikes to 3++ and -1 to hit. They have transpots and jetbikes that are -1 to hit and 4++. The Shadowseers can make everyone nearby -1 to wound, and even reduce your range weapon by 6". If they want something to survive Marine aggression, that unit will almost certainly make it through at least one turn.

They are super fast by default, and like supersonic fast if loaded in their transport. Not only will they be "in your face" T1, their high speed itself also let them have the initiative in deciding where to strike and have the high advantage in avoid being alpha striked. The reduced table size perfectly favours them in a battle against marines. As there is no where to hide from them, while the distances between objectives makes their mobility still meaningful in capturing by making Marines still one step behind them in rushing to objectives.

When they strike SM, almost nothing in SM army can survive the salvos of melta shots, Haywire cannons and 4A per model reroll all wound rolls AP-2 multi dmg.

What should we do to stand a chance fighting Harlequins?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 14:18:28


Post by: Leth


Most of those buffs for the harlequins are determined on their turn, so you can adjust accordingly. Ignore the juiced up unit. Take advantage of the fact that -1s don’t stack more than once, and make sure you have some speed in your army that isn’t the front lines. Their weapons are powerful, but not exactly long ranged, so fight the instinct to automatically put your fast units out front and save them for a counter punch.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 15:01:49


Post by: Flavius Infernus


Neophyte2012 wrote:
Hi guys, wanna ask if anyone have thought of how to deal with Harlequins? Looks like these clowns are among the deadliest opponent to Space Marines.



Nick Nanavati Harlequins vs. John Lennon White Scars

https://youtu.be/zQpi-jYCtBE (I would post the Twitch link, but I'm old and I don't understand Twitch.)

3 hours well spent to watch the whole thing.

The takeaway is that Space Marines deal with Harlequins by castling up in the middle of the board, using overlapping auras (especially the chief apothecary) to minimize the effects of their shooting, and the threat of countercharge to hold the clowns back.

Notice that all the Harlequin advantages you listed are defenses against shooting. So the way to beat them is not to stand back and try to shoot, but force them into melee with your strong melee units.

The Harlequins seem scary, but they still need to crack into your brick to score victory points. They can't do enough shooting to move you from the table center, and if they assault directly, they tend to bounce, which allows you to step up your bully units and kill them.

Just watch out for the strat that allows them to fall back onto objectives when you charge them. ((1)You charge them at the end of your turn, (2) they immediately fall back onto an objective without fighting you, (3) they immediately score primaries at the top of their turn for the objective they fell back onto and (4) the charging unit is pulled away from your brick/auras and is now vulnerable to being wiped out piecemeal. The harlequin player would like to rinse and repeat this tactic as much as possible). As demonstrated in the battle, it's often better to let the harlequins charge you.

Also notice that, while the Space Marine army in the batrep is White Scars, he never really needs to use the +1 damage trait. Any Space Marine army can duplicate this strategy.



9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 15:21:58


Post by: SecondTime


BA are extra good at catching the clowns and throwing a zillion dice at them in melee. DC even have a handy 6+++ for those 2 damage weapons.

I'm frankly surprised harlequins do this well vs marines.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/04 15:44:13


Post by: U02dah4


a lot of facing harlequins is target priority and positioning. A 4++ is great vs big hits but not so great vs smaller ones on mass.

Personally I would prefer an aggressive approach but then I might be coloured by my BA tendencies.

Their mobile but through selective targeting and positioning of your models you can often zonaly control some sections of the board even if you sacrifice others. We also know they need to score objectives so despite their movement their going to be drawn to certain parts of the board

Finally look at your list certain small shotcount high damage weapons like eradicators may be less optimised than assault hellblasters although this needs to be viewed in the context of your local meta


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/05 01:41:09


Post by: H.B.M.C.


What's the consensus on the best way to equip a Redemptor Dread?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/05 02:04:16


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the consensus on the best way to equip a Redemptor Dread?



honestly I think it might depend on what you're fighting. Plasma if you're in a marine heavy meta. gatling if you see more guardsman and orc players


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/05 02:59:57


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I have two that I haven't built yet.

One will get the Plasma, the other the Gatling. I'm just not sure on what other guns to give it.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/05 03:39:18


Post by: Vilgeir


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have two that I haven't built yet.

One will get the Plasma, the other the Gatling. I'm just not sure on what other guns to give it.


I think the consensus is that the underslung Onslaught is preferred over the Heavy Flamer and the Icarus Rocket Pod is a worthwhile 5 point upgrade.

The chest weapons are the same cost and identical str, ap, and damage profile except one is a rapid fire bolt weapon and the other is a bit shorter range but has blast (with the pros/cons of that). It feels like a toss up there unless you're IF.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/05 09:30:06


Post by: Dukeofstuff


An antiarmor aggressor can still put out 21 shots a turn, against horde.
An antihorde aggressor can put out around 30. So you are giving up all the antiarmor potential and the longer range of the big plasma, for another 6 or so dead ork boys.

Does the rest of your army kill those 18 orks easier than it kills enemy armor and elite marine heavy infantry? That will inform your choice.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/05 10:30:48


Post by: Niiai


Vilgeir wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have two that I haven't built yet.

One will get the Plasma, the other the Gatling. I'm just not sure on what other guns to give it.


I think the consensus is that the underslung Onslaught is preferred over the Heavy Flamer and the Icarus Rocket Pod is a worthwhile 5 point upgrade.

The chest weapons are the same cost and identical str, ap, and damage profile except one is a rapid fire bolt weapon and the other is a bit shorter range but has blast (with the pros/cons of that). It feels like a toss up there unless you're IF.


I agree with this. They are fairly comparabel unless you are tailing your list. I build mine with the plasmacannon as my opponent regularly has a lot of T8. I do not own that many lascannons as most of my models are from 5th edition, when rocket launchers where king.

The gatling handcannon and flyer rockets are nice for 10 points. I went for the bolters instead of grenade launchers as Blast weapons can not be used in melee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captains (Wolf Lord) and Lieutenants (Wolf Guard Battle Leaders) come in some varius forms. All of them can take terinator armour, standar jump pack in non primaris form, both even have Thunder Wolves in the SW codex. But is there any way for Lieutenants to take a bike?

The reason I am asking is I have my Wolf Lord on thunderwolf. But SW can take a warlord trait that allows to get +1 on advance and charge as well as charge after running/turboboosting. Having 20 in movent sounds sweet. But I would need to swap my Wolf Lord and Wolf Guard Battle Leader around.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/09 16:11:06


Post by: Vilgeir


I see the FAQ released on the WarCom site. The Chapter Command points costs are clarified, the Heavy Intercessor upgrades are fixed, and the Primaris Apothecary keywords are fixed.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/09 23:05:07


Post by: broxus


 Vilgeir wrote:
I see the FAQ released on the WarCom site. The Chapter Command points costs are clarified, the Heavy Intercessor upgrades are fixed, and the Primaris Apothecary keywords are fixed.


Yep they are the cheaper values they previewed!!


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 00:27:01


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Glad they went with the cheaper costs.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 06:34:26


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


Yet I still wish they’d do something about the two Phobos lieutenants so that they could be with their respective units.

It just feels off that a Reiver Lieutenant has to wait for his Reiver unit to drop down or turn up on a random table edge just because GW (for some unknown reason) didn’t model him with Grav chutes or a grapnel


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 06:37:01


Post by: Tiberius501


So, after a little while to play and such, are marines still bonkers? Or are they less obnoxious to fight now? I’d like to use my Blood Angels without feeling like I’m tickling my opponent internally.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 08:14:32


Post by: Dukeofstuff


It depends.
Are you running a themeatic army where a generic opponent's gaurd or nids can play and not feel impotent?
Are you running a win at all costs ninth edition nightmare where he won't kill more than 1 marine a turn?
Are you specifically seeking out a marine or better army to go against? Are you announcing yourself as fairly competitive army so someone with his beautifully painted fourth edition heretics that he now runs as cadians won't just get absolutely cut into pieces and go "wow, you are a ..." and never talk to you again?

Simple answer is, marines are played only against other marines (and even then a bit boredly) and only in tournaments.

Complex answer is not as simple.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 08:22:54


Post by: Tiberius501


Awesome well I don’t use Eradicators or Aggressors, but I do play Primaris just because I prefer their models. So hopefully that balances out somewhat.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 08:28:19


Post by: Dukeofstuff


So, my very bad, I just looked a few units I don't often play against up and realized I had their rules not down right. impulsors can't carry gravis or 10 men. They are not gods. (which explains something about my opponents tactics that I never understood but always thought he was going easy on my poor little gaurd armies).

so I killed that post for a more generic explanation. Blood angels is a surprisingly rare opponent for me, although I am intimately familiar with (and still have a deep distaste in my mouth for) the 3 blood angel officers who randomly wandered the galaxy as a soup add during eighth edition.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 09:28:21


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Awesome well I don’t use Eradicators or Aggressors, but I do play Primaris just because I prefer their models. So hopefully that balances out somewhat.


Maybe it was just in my meta, I had never felt the Aggressors and Eradicators are so OP. They are strong for sure, but not like a "broken" unit.

I once faced Harlequins. Had 6 clown cars zooped in my face in turn 1, one of them fired 6 fusion pistols out of the car at my only squad of Aggresors and killed 4 men out of the squad of 5 and the last one fleed in morale phase because I rolled the at the wrong time.

I don't think they are tough to kill, just maybe the community haven't find the way to do it. Once they are killed they won't be a problem.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 15:30:49


Post by: Blood Hawk


 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, after a little while to play and such, are marines still bonkers? Or are they less obnoxious to fight now? I’d like to use my Blood Angels without feeling like I’m tickling my opponent internally.

In short, marines are not OP like prenerf Iron Hands were but the better chapters are still top tier. So they aren't "bonkers" but they are rather strong.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 15:50:22


Post by: SecondTime


Removed - off topic.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 16:41:08


Post by: Neophyte2012



Bonkers or not depends on what chapter the marine player uses and what army the opponent uses. I played against Harlequin 4 times, twice back in 8th and twice in 9th. Tried using Salamander, Ultramarine, Space Wolves. And I got crushed every time. 100% defeated rate against them. sure it might be my bad luck since my oppoenents got first turn everytime, and get into my face turn 1, delete about 30% of my army no matter what I use in the first battle round everytime and suffocate my movement so I cannot grab mid field objectives, then pop up all nasty combos to make themselves unkillable. Then proceed to table me within 3 to 4 rounds most of time.

May be it is just me, but marines do have hard counters.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 20:21:55


Post by: broxus


Marines took a pretty solid nerf in 9th edition. They are good, it absolutely not OP. It seems all armies are pretty competitive right now.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 20:25:23


Post by: Da-Rock


Marines are just fine.

Good players are good with any army they play.....bad players lose a lot no matter the army.

The difference in game experience is often tied to who the players are.....some are fun and completive others are not.

Blaming army stats is for the weak minded.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/10 20:55:20


Post by: U02dah4


They haven't been nerfed that far i mean sure for now they are weaker you've lost the supplements but they are releasing them again and we will be back to the same problem.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/11 03:01:29


Post by: BrianDavion


Removed, OT.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/11 06:29:26


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


U02dah4 wrote:
They haven't been nerfed that far i mean sure for now they are weaker you've lost the supplements but they are releasing them again and we will be back to the same problem.


I’m sure we can still use the supplements. My assumption was that it was only the chapters that had previously had their own codex (BA, DA, SW and DW) that were being given a new supplement to tie them in with the ones from 8th.

Obviously that doesn’t mean GW won’t do all the previous supplements again. They will sell!


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/11 09:22:54


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


The issue with marines is certain units are crazy points efficient, looking at eradicators, ATVs and apothecaries. If you spam those and "abuse" the power houses most armies won't fare well against that. Couple that with some powerful army wide buffs through chapter tactics, say White Scars, we got a pretty strong standing. If you just take a goofball "what i like" army, the rules are solid enough to give you a fighting chance but you sure won't auto win anything. If all armies were at that level (soon tm) noone would have to complain.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/11 20:29:16


Post by: BrianDavion


U02dah4 wrote:
They haven't been nerfed that far i mean sure for now they are weaker you've lost the supplements but they are releasing them again and we will be back to the same problem.


yeah dude the 8th edition supplements are 100% usable. they're just brining the other marine armies in under the same "banner"


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/12 06:47:36


Post by: Cpt. Icanus


Don't know about other supplements, but the BT FAQ states that faith & fury is no longer applicable and the FAQ is to be used until a new release.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/12 10:35:43


Post by: U02dah4


Same for blood of baal in the BA


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/14 11:17:51


Post by: BrianDavion


I'm refering to the supplmenets like the Ultramarines supplement etc, which are still usable. In terms of F&F and loyalist marines, other then black templrs (who had all that stuff moved to an index) space marines have lsot nothing as far as I can tell I mean the various "masters of the chapter" upgrades are now in the core book


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/14 16:30:24


Post by: Azuza001


The only thing marines lost were their chapter specific litanies which honestly is fine by me.

My personal feeling as far as marines if they are op or not still stands, we are at the beginning of 9th just like we were at the beginning of 8th. Remember when we had our codex and everyone else was running index? Remember when we had pages of strats and they had.... the 3 core from the main book? Thats how marines and crons are currently, we have books designed for 9th and the way 9ths missions work, others don't and they can struggle thanks to this. Some armies can adapt fine (i find playing chaos i have to take advantage of my guys being cheaper to make up for the fact I am 1w vs marines 2w to stand a chance) where others feel very outclassed (my wolves absolutely demolished my friends custodies force the other day, he had such a hard time dealing with 2w bloodclaws with all his weapons being d3 dmg instead of a flat number. The wolves with their chainswords didn't have the same problem fighting back...)

It will get fixed at some point, I would love if gw would give marines a break for awhile. Dg is going to feel nice next month, and xenos get some love in January. But even ig or grey knights would feel good at this point over the marine supplements coming out at such a pace.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 02:47:18


Post by: Arcanis161


What Captains are people running with? Seems like all the Primaris ones are meant as support at different parts of the battlefield (i.e. choose your troops/specialists/chapter first, then get the appropriate Primaris Captain) while the Firstborn are meant as either a slightly cheaper Captain or as a beat stick.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 04:55:22


Post by: ZergSmasher


As a Dark Angels player, I find that normal Captains just don't make it when I have access to characters like Azrael, Sammael, and Belial. They just don't bring much to the table that one of those three don't also bring in addition to more. A more melee-oriented Chapter like Blood Angels or Space Wolves can get more mileage out of the classic "Smash Captain" build, but DA don't need one. In 8th I used to run the Phobos Captain partly for sniper duty alongside three Eliminator units, but I have yet to put him on a table in 9th. Of course, the vast majority of games I play are super competitive, either tournaments or tournament practice, so maybe if I played in more casual settings I'd bust out the generic Captains just because their models are awesome.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 05:29:42


Post by: Neophyte2012


Azuza001 wrote:
The only thing marines lost were their chapter specific litanies which honestly is fine by me.

My personal feeling as far as marines if they are op or not still stands, we are at the beginning of 9th just like we were at the beginning of 8th. Remember when we had our codex and everyone else was running index? Remember when we had pages of strats and they had.... the 3 core from the main book? Thats how marines and crons are currently, we have books designed for 9th and the way 9ths missions work, others don't and they can struggle thanks to this. Some armies can adapt fine (i find playing chaos i have to take advantage of my guys being cheaper to make up for the fact I am 1w vs marines 2w to stand a chance) where others feel very outclassed (my wolves absolutely demolished my friends custodies force the other day, he had such a hard time dealing with 2w bloodclaws with all his weapons being d3 dmg instead of a flat number. The wolves with their chainswords didn't have the same problem fighting back...)

It will get fixed at some point, I would love if gw would give marines a break for awhile. Dg is going to feel nice next month, and xenos get some love in January. But even ig or grey knights would feel good at this point over the marine supplements coming out at such a pace.


Yes, I feel like the "Marine is so OP" is due to the codex creep induced by the order of codex release. When everyone got their codex released and updated, marines and Necron will be just average and maybe even very weak like the former 70% times in the 8th edition.

You see what units in marine army got the "core" keywords? It is most of the infantry (exclude Centurions), biker and Dreadoughts, do you feel something familiar to the first marine codex in 8th? It was exactly the units who get chapter tactics for all SM and CSM codexes while every faction else get CT equivalent for everyone. Of course, in 9th Necron get this worse than SM. I suppose GW may do that again, I bet at least IG will get core on Leman Russ Battle Tanks. While Aeldari will get core on almost everything including Helmlock flyer, Fire Prisms, Pain Engines and Starweavers later on their own codexes


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 05:40:29


Post by: Leth


If I had to guess AM will get qet a split core system like necrons do where Core is one thing for infantry, and tanks will have a different keyword instead.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 06:01:00


Post by: BrianDavion


Neophyte2012 wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
The only thing marines lost were their chapter specific litanies which honestly is fine by me.

My personal feeling as far as marines if they are op or not still stands, we are at the beginning of 9th just like we were at the beginning of 8th. Remember when we had our codex and everyone else was running index? Remember when we had pages of strats and they had.... the 3 core from the main book? Thats how marines and crons are currently, we have books designed for 9th and the way 9ths missions work, others don't and they can struggle thanks to this. Some armies can adapt fine (i find playing chaos i have to take advantage of my guys being cheaper to make up for the fact I am 1w vs marines 2w to stand a chance) where others feel very outclassed (my wolves absolutely demolished my friends custodies force the other day, he had such a hard time dealing with 2w bloodclaws with all his weapons being d3 dmg instead of a flat number. The wolves with their chainswords didn't have the same problem fighting back...)

It will get fixed at some point, I would love if gw would give marines a break for awhile. Dg is going to feel nice next month, and xenos get some love in January. But even ig or grey knights would feel good at this point over the marine supplements coming out at such a pace.


Yes, I feel like the "Marine is so OP" is due to the codex creep induced by the order of codex release. When everyone got their codex released and updated, marines and Necron will be just average and maybe even very weak like the former 70% times in the 8th edition.

You see what units in marine army got the "core" keywords? It is most of the infantry (exclude Centurions), biker and Dreadoughts, do you feel something familiar to the first marine codex in 8th? It was exactly the units who get chapter tactics for all SM and CSM codexes while every faction else get CT equivalent for everyone. Of course, in 9th Necron get this worse than SM. I suppose GW may do that again, I bet at least IG will get core on Leman Russ Battle Tanks. While Aeldari will get core on almost everything including Helmlock flyer, Fire Prisms, Pain Engines and Starweavers later on their own codexes


guard don;t need to have "core" on their tanks. their aura equivilant never worked on tanks. all the core on LRs would do is likely prevent the tank commander from buffing himself


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 06:43:20


Post by: Leth


I could see them coming up with some name for the tanks keyword like they have the aeronautica imperialis for flier keywords. Or it could be something simple like Leman Russ or Vehicle.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 06:44:37


Post by: Rogzor87


Good evening. I haven't played or really looked at Warhammer 40k since 6th Ed. Trying to come back with marines(undecided on chapter). Is there a good consensus or info on like an all "biker" army? That's what I intend to build/make. It's what I always wanted to build since I started playing in 3rd edition but never got to it.

Like hq on bikes, scout bikers, attack bikes, normal bikes, outriders and the ATV.

Also list building seems to be WAY different from what I remember and I am struggling to understand it.

Thanks for your time!


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 08:44:56


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Rogzor87 wrote:
Good evening. I haven't played or really looked at Warhammer 40k since 6th Ed. Trying to come back with marines(undecided on chapter). Is there a good consensus or info on like an all "biker" army? That's what I intend to build/make. It's what I always wanted to build since I started playing in 3rd edition but never got to it.

Like hq on bikes, scout bikers, attack bikes, normal bikes, outriders and the ATV.

Also list building seems to be WAY different from what I remember and I am struggling to understand it.

Thanks for your time!


Then maybe White Scar is the army for you. You could have an outrider detachment (1-2 HQ and lots of FA units) for them, the problem is it cost you 3 cp. And honestly, Outriders and ATV are all good units.


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 15:53:08


Post by: Sarigar


New Marine player. Question. How does one get their Ereadicators to deep strike? I've faced them a few times and it appears they can, but I cannot find the rule. Am I mistaken for them being placed in Strategic Reserve?


9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica @ 2020/11/15 16:31:19


Post by: Neophyte2012


 Sarigar wrote:
New Marine player. Question. How does one get their Ereadicators to deep strike? I've faced them a few times and it appears they can, but I cannot find the rule. Am I mistaken for them being placed in Strategic Reserve?


Usually it would be put into "Strategic Reserve" rule, allowing them to come into the board from board edges sections that is not in enemy DZ. While White Scars and Space Wolves have stratagem allowing them come in from any board edges. If you say "Deep Strike", then maybe it is Raven Guard, it has many deploy tricks, include deep strike a unit, or allow some units to perform "pre game movement", all are pretty powerful.