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Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 16:40:27


Post by: blackmage


Spoiler:
Hey everyone, TJ from Art of War here to give you the new scoop on Death Guard in their new Psychic Awakening book War of the Spider. Now to be clear, other factions got rules in this book, but Death Guard definitely got the most to love. Now, these guys have been around the block with a codex that came out very early in 8th edition. I have used some version of them through most of this edition; however, the book needed a serious upgrade. Being an early book, they got very little in the department of stratagems and relics, so this new book is a welcome upgrade. This book allows the Death Guard to finally be competitive while remaining a mono faction build. The book is just that strong. It touches every unit in the codex and makes it better. While there are no codex updates in this book, the additions of the Plague companies boost the army by improving the units and allowing you to take different builds based on how you like to play. Let’s get started at the top…. Relics.
Relics

This time around, there have been numerous upgrades gifted to the Death Guard, some definitely better than others but all useful. The codex itself gave us only one or two useful relics, but this new book truly delivers. The book gives you six new legion relics, but all the companies come with a unique relic as well, bringing the total to 13. We will get into all that company goodness later.

Ague Stone – Lord of Contagion upgrade that gives nearby enemy units within 3 inches -1 strength. Not sold on this being super useful considering toughness is something that Death Guard does in spades.

Allwyther – Balesword upgrade that gives the bearer +1 strength and damage on the sword as well. Not terrible, but there are better choices that we can spend that relic slot on.

Daemon’s Toll – Noxious Blightbringer model upgrade that gives the user a 5+ invulnerable save as long as the unit stays within 7 inches. Excellent upgrade that gives ground forces much-needed protection. Likely a good choice for people who want to take lots of Marines.

Epidemicyst Blade – Hellforged Sword upgrade that gives the bearer +1 strength and the plague weapon upgrade on the blade. It also gives you additional hits on unmodified 6+. Now, if there was only some stratagem that gave us access to more attacks…

Putrid Periapt – Psyker model knows one additional power and allows the psyker to heal after it casts a power once per round. It would have been much better if it was know an additional power and cast another one as well, but not a bad choice as it stands.

Worm Spitter – A bolt pistol upgrade that increases the range by 3 inches, the strength to 5, and the ap to -2. Oh yeah, and if you hit a unit with it, it causes them to be corroded, which gives all weapons Death Guard units the plague weapon ability. I mean, I guess it’s ok if you have nothing else to take… and by that I mean MY DARK GODS WHAT A RELIC. The possibilities with this relic are endless when you think that most of the small arms fire that you have, bolt weapons and the like, don’t have the plague weapon rule. The other thing to note here is that Cultists and Poxwalkers can also use this super insane weapon upgrade. The only problem you should be having is what your second relic should be after this one.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop
The Stratagems

Father Nurgle has gifted the Death Guard this day with over 20 new Stratagems! Some of these new abilities significantly increase the effectiveness of the army. The book has army-wide stratagems, but the Plague companies have two each and bring the total well above 30. The thing to note here is that most of the CP costs are very reasonable, with some small exceptions. I honestly feel that if this was all the book had to offer, I would be a happy man; however, there is so much more. Let’s dive right in, shall we?

Plaguechosen – Allows one of your HQ’s to become a warlord and receive a bonus trait. What a great time to be a Death Guard character considering the seven new warlord traits we just got. Those will be covered in this article later on, but suffice to say, you will want to spend a CP for this. Another thing to note is there is no cap on the number of times this can be done… before the FAQ, that is.

Harbinger of Nurgle – Allows for one of your Lord of Contagion to get the extra aura of giving friendly units a reroll on hits on 1s. Now at face value, this is not that useful until you consider two things. The first thing is that for an extra 38 points, you can take him instead of a Lord, which gives you a beefy 2+ armor, one additional wound, and a nice Feel No Pain. Not too bad now for one CP. The second thing to consider is that Typhus is a Lord of Contagion. So for 155 points, you can get a psyker that buffs nearby Poxwalkers and casts two powers. He is also super strong in melee, so it is a pretty solid choice to buff the army all around for 1 CP.

Virulent Rounds – Turns your Plague Marine bolt weapons into plague weapons and also gives them the extra ap on a roll of a 6+. On first look, this seems terrific, but the relic pistol does the same thing as long as you can hit with it. However, this allows you to target two units with plague weapon rounds on bolt weapons, so it definitely has its uses. This can be combined with a host of different stratagems that bump up the damage output. You’ll want to make a point to include Arch Contaminator to increase the CP return on this stratagem.

Soul Harvest – This Stratagem amps up the number of attacks by three for the axe or the balesword for a Demon Prince. However, these attacks can only target infantry with these attacks. What a splendid upgrade for the balesword, especially when you factor in the nice, sweet relic that we just got access to. So now, with the charge, you’re looking at eight attacks that are st 8 -2 and 3 damage, which also provides additional hits on 6+. A very strong choice.

Foulgush – What a name for such a fantastic ability. This gives your Foul Blightspawn the ability to roll an additional dice for both the strength and the number of shots allowing you to discard the ones you don’t want to use. This amplifies the damage output by reliably getting better shots and strength. At already a super-strong choice for anti tanks, this makes it even more of a solid choice. If only there were a stratagem to make the range of the weapon increase as well…

Relentless Volleys – Allows a unit with Boltguns to gain an additional rapid fire number on their shots, which doubles the number of shots the unit gets. If the unit is more than six models, it costs 2 CP. This is such an excellent stratagem for Death Guard because combi bolters/ bolters are something we have in abundance. Usually, we don’t fire enough shots to make an impact, but double that and now we are talking about some major damage. Couple with the ability to make the bolters plague weapons and full rerolls after that, and you are talking about some major havoc.

Putrid Fecundity – So this stratagem is one that is a significant buff for plague marines. It is effectively bringing their toughness way up. This ability gives your marines +1 to their Feel No Pain. It costs a bit more depending on the unit’s size, but you don’t care if it means your unit is taking fewer casualties. This becomes especially powerful with rerolling 1s and 2s on your FNP..but more about that later. It’s is a must take if you are planning on playing ground forces.

Trench Fighters – Another powerful stratagem for the ground forces of the Death Guard. This new stratagem gives any plague marine with a plague knife an additional attack. Now you might be thinking I don’t want my marines to punch, I want to be able to shoot. Well, what if I told you that you get a bolter and… a plague knife? Now when you couple this ability with maybe a spell to give you mortal wounds on melee, as well as Veterans of the Long War and a warlord trait to reroll your wound rolls, you have a powerful combo indeed.

Creeping Blight – This ability is triggered in the fight phase to add +1 to the damage roll of your weapons and makes the roll of unmodified 6+ -4 AP, which is fantastic. This is yet another way to give a unit +1 to wound, which you can never really get enough of. This is going to be super useful when having multiple combats going on effectively, being able to split your buffs evenly. The other nice thing about this is it isn’t limited by the infantry keyword, though Veterans of the Long War is.

Warp Toll – This is yet another way that the book is upgrading the units in the codex without having to rework all the unit entries. This upgrade allows your Noxious Blightbringer to deal some significant morale havoc by not only forcing your opponent to add 1 to the test but double the number of models that flee. This is going to play a significant role in 9th, and I am very excited to see if this unit plays a part.

Hypertoxic Tinctures – Another upgrade stratagem that allows your Plague Surgeon to allow friendly units within six inches to be able to reroll 1s and 2s on your plague weapons within six inches of him. This is awesome, especially if you don’t have the CP or character slots to give another warlord trait of Arch-Contaminator.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop

Noxious Rupture – This stratagem allows a nearby unit to give a unit -1 to be hit until next turn. Definitely a powerful ability when you think about this coupled with Cloud of Flies and how you can still make use of the unit in front of you after it is dead.

Eruption of Filth – Use this ability after a Terminator model from your army dies, and units within seven inches can suffer a mortal wound on 4+. Not crazy effective unless you have a unit with one wound left on it that you don’t want to let get away.

Mutant Strain – This ability allows Poxwalkers to get a bit of a buff, enabling them to inflict mortal wounds on the enemy unit on an unmodified wound roll of a 6+. However, you can also suffer mortal wounds if you are prone to rolling 1s. This stratagem isn’t bad if you are trying to run large units of Poxwalkers.

Miasmal Affiliations – This is a fight phase stratagem that decreases the units they are fighting by one toughness as long as Mortarion’s aura is not affecting them as well. This is a pretty expensive ability at 2 CP, but I can definitely see the use in it if you are fighting something more durable, and you want to be able to wound it easier.

Overwhelming Generosity – This is the strat that is going to get most of the attention. This stratagem allows one unit to increase the range of its plague weapons by 6 inches. Now right off the bat, you can think of some excellent units that this would affect. Increased ranges on you the flamers on the Plague Burst Crawlers are awesome, but there is so much more you can do with this. But the real units that benefit from this are the Foul Blightspawn and the marines/termies that you make their bolters plague weapons. Increasing range on already deadly weapons like the flamer from the Foul Blightspawn that can now fire at 15 inches and remain in the protection of his bodyguards is terrifying. I am excited to see how I can make use of this ability in the coming months.

Fire Fever – This is a Helbrute stratagem that allows your model to get rerolls on the unit it is shooting at as long as it does not split shots. Not a huge fan of where the Helbrute is currently in 8th, but maybe this will change in 9th.

Parasitic Fumes – This is a stratagem that improves your units’ armor penetration when you have a Blight-hauler within 7 inches of that enemy unit. I’m not really feeling this one honestly. Your Blight-haulers will want to be defensive since they have no melee weapons, so I’m not sure how this would work.

Life-Eater – This ability allows a Death Guard unit to score a successful wound if you roll an unmodified hit roll of 6+. Not terrible if you need to put the beating on the unit, but wounding is not something we usually have trouble with.

Accelerated Entropy – This is another upgrade stratagem this time for one of my favorite units, although I’m not sure you need this one. This upgrade is for a Plague Burst Crawler that gives your entropy cannons a much-needed damage boost. Makes your damage automatically 3 damage if you roll a 1, 2, or 3. It’s a nice upgrade, but as I said, the tank already has amazing offensive weapon options in the form of flamers, so I’m not sure you need this one.

Contaminated Monstrosity – This is the last of the upgrades, and it is an interesting one. This allows you to give one of your tanks the ability to receive a Feel No Pain bonus. Some big units need this. Possessed are the first units that come to mind but not the only one. Plenty of Forgeworld units can be taken for Death Guard but lack the defensive abilities that the Death Guard gets in their codex. I am interested to see what uses I can make out of this.
Credit to Games WokrshopCredit to Games Wokrshop
Plague Companies

If all of those upgrades, relics, and stratagems weren’t enough, we now have access to sub-factions. There are seven Plague Companies to choose from, and while these do not have passive abilities, each one gives you access to a new Warlord Trait, a unique relic, and two additional stratagems. These are great additions to detachments you were already taking, but something to note is that you’ll have to pay with a relic/warlord trait slot or CP if you want to take advantage. Some of these Plague Companies are very good making use of units you were already planning on using thanks to the new Stratagems and relics. Let’s jump in, shall we?

1st Company: The Harbingers

The Harbingers are Typhus’ crew, and if he’s in a Harbingers detachment, he gains the Harbingers keyword. Any Poxwalker units in the detachment also gain the Harbingers keyword. The Harbingers are all about Poxwalkers and buffing them. Their Warlord Trait Shamblerot allows the warlord to add one model to a friendly Harbingers Poxwalkers unit within 7″ every time he kills an enemy unit in melee. You still have to pay reinforcement points for each model you add that takes the unit above starting strength, making this not a very good warlord trait. The main problem with Poxwalkers is that you have to get them into melee and then have the points saved for new models. This company also comes with a relic that replaces your blight grenade with a powered-up one called Rotskull Bomb that does 2d3 that is strength 5 ap-2 and 2 damage that automatically hits. Not bad with it also being a plague weapon. Finally, this company has two stratagems with it.

From the Carrion Heaps -This allows you to deep strike up to two units of Poxwalkers at the beginning of the game, allowing you some flexibility that you didn’t have before. Spending 3 CP on making sure you have your troops not picked off early in the game might be useful, but I’m not sure it’s worth it.

Life beyond death – The second stratagem is one that we have seen before but with Terminators and tanks. When a unit with the Harbingers keyword dies, you can damage the unit that killed it by dealing d3 mortals. Not the worst trade for a CP if it means you’re going to kill a unit for it but not worth it for having to take the whole detachment. It also suffers from the unit having to be Poxwalkers.

The Harbingers are a solid choice if you like the Day of the Dead feel. Competitively, though, the company does not utilize the units that you want to take, so I would advise another choice.

2nd Company: The Inexorable

The 2nd company is all about mechanized assaults and rolling into battle in heavy tanks. Their Warlord Trait, Ferric Blight, improves the AP of Inexorable models when they attack a vehicle within 7″ of the warlord. The company’s relic, The Leechspore Casket, allows the warlord to heal an Inexorable Vehicle model within 18″ by one wound, to a maximum of 3 per turn per vehicle, when he kills an enemy model. Ferric Blight is a substantial ability that helps Death Guard deal with vehicles that have great saves and a ton of wounds. However, I feel that the units that Death Guard has that task themselves with killing vehicles do it rather well, so maybe not the best choice for a company, but perhaps the stratagems will change my mind.

Unholy Essence -This ability gives up to three vehicles in your army the Inexorable Advance ability for a Shooting phase. This ability is all but useless as we move into 9th edition, as vehicles no longer suffer the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. With the twilight of 8th edition upon us, I struggle to think why they put this in, considering they designed these books for the new edition.

Ferric Miasma – This Stratagem gives an enemy infantry unit -2 to its charge rolls for when it charges one of your Inexorable units. This is pretty useful for protecting your screening units or key vehicles like a hellforged Dreadnought from getting charged, particularly from units that can boost their post-deep strike charge with something like the Banner of Blood stratagem.

The Inexorable have a couple of interesting abilities. Still, if you’re looking for a vehicle-heavy strategy, there are better ways to do it, and we are going to cover that later.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop

3rd Company: Mortarion’s Anvil

This company is more robust than some of the others. The Warlord Trait, Gloaming Bloat, makes its bearer harder to wound, with wound rolls of 1-3 always failing. This is a perfect warlord trait on a deamon who loves to be in the thick of it. The relic, Tollkeeper, is an upgrade for a Tallyman model and gives friendly models within 7″ an extra hit each time they roll an unmodified 6 to hit with a melee weapon. This is a great ability that allows you to get more utility with your melee units to spread the damage further. Considering the Tallyman also allows for rerolls in combat, it is a potent relic indeed. Their stratagems are pretty strong as well.

Futility Made Flesh -This abilitybuffs a Terminator unit in the opponent’s Shooting phase, reducing the damage of incoming attacks by one for a phase. However, it is very expensive, costing 2 CP if the Terminator unit has five or fewer models and 3 CP otherwise. This is an excellent boost for the unit survivability when going against heavy, multi-wound firepower. It also combines well with Disgustingly Resilient to make a unit of Blightlords insanely brutal to deal with. This is a powerful ability that, even if only used once, will certainly keep that unit alive.

Relaptic Assault – This stratagem is used in the opponent’s Charge phase and lets one unit of infantry perform a Heroic Intervention. This is a super tactical ability that will catch people off guard and allow some heavy hitters, often Terminators, to get into combat. A good point to also realize is that if you are charged, you get to pick the unit that goes first, which could make this even better.

There’s a lot of power in Mortarion’s Anvil, especially if you’re running Terminators. Both Stratagems are very good, as are the relics and warlord traits, making this a solid choice.

4th Company: The Wretched

The Wretched is all about psychic powers and summoning. Their warlord trait, The Eater Plague, regains the warlord a wound each time it kills a model in melee, up to three per phase. This is another powerful warlord trait for a Demon Prince, especially when coupled with some armor upgrades. The company’s relic, The Daemon’s Favour, upgrades a Malignant Plaguecaster, replacing its Pestilential Fallout ability with the Torrent of Putrefaction. This upgrades the ability to do one mortal wound if you manifested the power with a roll of less than 7, and D3 mortal wounds if your roll was 7+. Unfortunately, Plaguecasters’ Pestilential Fallout ability only has a 7″ range to begin with. However, this doesn’t actually help the casting of powers, and I wish they would have done that instead.

Sevenfold Blessings -This stratagem allows you to upgrade a single Wretched Psyker before the battle for 1 CP, letting them reroll one of the dice whenever they take a psychic test. This is an upgrade I can get behind. Almost no reroll in an army can feel bad when you’re trying to cast a power that goes off on a five like Blades of Putrefaction.

The Rotted Veil -This an ability used at the end of the movement phase to perform a Daemonic Ritual. It can be used even if the character has moved or arrived as reinforcements this turn, but instead of the standard roll, you roll a D6 and add 7 to the result. This improves your average outcome significantly but unsure as to what you would even summon at a max PL of 13 because a Great Unclean One is PL 17. So this stratagem isn’t going to help summon anything of note since three dice are more than enough for a herald.

Overall, there’s some ok stuff here. Summoning in 40k isn’t in the best place right now due to restrictions, but that might change in 9th. The Sevenfold Blessings upgrade is also useful on a Demon Prince, which is great because that is a unit we were already thinking about fielding.

5th Company: The Poxmongers

The 5th company is all about Daemon Engines, and this naturally my favorite because I love Plague Burst Crawlers, and you better believe they got better. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. This company’s warlord trait is Sanguous Flux, and it improves the AP of Poxmongers models within 7″ by one when they hit infantry units in melee. It’s a substantial improvement on the melee units you are already using (looking at you, Blightlords and Demon Prince). The real treasure in this detachment is the relic. This company relic is the Ironclot Furnace, which gives Poxmonger Daemon Engine units within 7″ a 4+ invulnerable save. That’s a significant boost in survivability for many units, one of them being you guessed it… Plagueburst Crawlers. This unit was already nigh unkillable, but with this, they are here to stay. It’s a point to note that Defilers can benefit from this as well, which will help these units shrug off half of their incoming attacks. You can also increase the survivability one step further by giving your Defiler a Feel No Pain by using the Contaminated Monstrosity stratagem. Moving and shooting with no penalty in 9th edition boosts the utility of all daemon engines significantly. Another thing to note is that in 9th these tanks will be able to rush up the board with no fear of being wrapped in combat because now they can shoot. The utility of that relic is pretty astounding because, again, these are units that you were already planning on taking. But wait, there’s more!

Bilious Bloodrush – This stratagem allows a Poxmongers Daemon Engine shoot in the Shooting phase even if it Fell Back that turn. This is a considerable benefit in 8th, though it might not be so massive in the new edition, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

The Flux Abated – This is a stratagem that was designed, in my opinion, to keep my favorite vehicle alive in the game. It allows you to heal a Poxmongers Daemon Engine D3 lost wounds if it destroys an enemy model. This is huge because they are already extremely difficult to remove, and now it can even heal. This will make the PlagueBurst Crawler a very annoying unit to pin down, to say the least. You can also chain tons of other abilities to make the tanks perform even better like two damage flamers on 6+ and another healing ability, and lastly, even the power to advance and still shoot.

The Poxmongers feel like the clear winners in my eyes. I was already planning on taking tanks and tanks that don’t die are even better. The big thing here as well is that you don’t have any units that are required to make this work like troops. If you were just to take a spearhead, you would be all set.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop

6th Company: The Ferrymen

This company is all about one of the other powerful units in the faction: Blightlord Terminators. Their Warlord Trait, The Droning, gives enemies within 12″ +2 to their morale tests. This currently isn’t that powerful, but again, given that it was written for 9th edition in mind, this could become very useful. The relic for this company is The Ferryman’s Scythe, which replaces a plaguereaper with one that’s a S+4, AP-3, 3 damage Plague Weapon that does extra mortal wounds each time you roll a 6 to wound with it. The only real downside is that it’s only an option for a Lord of Contagion, which isn’t really taken at all right now.

Vermid Whispers – This is an ability used in the Shooting phase to give a unit of Blightlord Terminators +1 to their hit rolls for a phase. This is a huge boost, especially when combined with the Relentless Volleys Stratagem to pound on the damage. Blightlords were already dependable damage dealers, and increases to that are much appreciated.

On Droning Wings– This is a stratagem that is used at the start of the Movement phase to boost the aura abilities of one FERRYMEN unit by 7″ for the rest of the turn. This has some interesting abilities, but the main problem is the CP cost of 2. The thing I am most interested in using this for is in 9th edition, where if you charge, you don’t go first unless you have a Foul Blightspawn’s Revolting Stench. This ability is super strong because it negates the bonus that your opponent would have for getting charged, which is very strong, bringing that aura to 14 inches, most likely protecting most of your units.

There are some good things in this company, especially if you’re running Blightlords. It’s worth as much consideration as our next company. I am intrigued by the things this company offers, considering I am a big fan of Terminators, but I feel that you don’t necessarily need these bonuses to field them.

7th Company: Mortarion’s Chosen Sons

This company has the chosen elites from the Death Guard ranks. They make all the plagues, and they do the dirty work. Their warlord trait, Crawling Pustulance, gives models -1 to hit the warlord with melee weapons, and when enemy units without FLY try to fall back from this warlord, you roll a D6, and on a 2+ they take D3 mortal wounds. This is a pretty great trait when used on a demon prince because no one wants to be in combat with one. The Company’s Relic, Vomitryx, upgrades a demon prince flamer to an Assault 7, S7, AP-3, 2 damage Plague weapon that automatically hits. Not a bad upgrade for a prince, but there are better relic slots.

Alembichal Narthecium – This is a stratagem upgrade that can be used before the battle. It gives your Plague Surgeon a special Narthecium that lets friendly Mortarion’s Chosen Sons Infantry within 3″ the ability to reroll Disgustingly Resilient rolls of a 1 or 2. It’s pretty great if you are going all infantry or want the elite Terminators you spent all the points on to survive the battle. Something else to note is you can use other boosts like the Hypertoxic Tinctures stratagem to make your troops even better.

Plague Brewers – This is a stratagem used in the Shooting phase to upgrade the plague belchers, plaguespurt gauntlets, and plague spewers of a single unit to damage 2 until the end of the phase. This is not terrible, but it doesn’t really feel like something you would use. Currently, the role of the Deathshrouds is bodyguards, but that might change in 9th.

Overall Thoughts

So, what does this mean for the Death Guard overall? I think that the overall power of the army has drastically gone up. Maybe even to the point where one might consider trying them as a mono faction competitively, which very few armies can boast the ability to do right now. This book’s power is such a welcome change for other chaos books that have come out in the last few months and even the Fabius Bile portion of this book. Every unit in the codex was looked at and altered effectively, which is something else I don’t believe I have seen in another book in a long time.

I can already see some potent combos from this book, which I am very eager to test. The first things that come to mind are the Blightlords, PlagueBurst Crawlers, and the Foul Blightspawn using the new upgrades and Stratagems to make a deadly core in my new lists. I hope that you will be able to come with me when tournament play resumes and take the plunge with me. I feel like Death Guard will make a big splash in the new edition with chaos, and I hope that I will be able to test all the crazy ideas I have in my head with this faction as the tip of the spear.

Here we can discuss new DG tactics based on 9th edition
latest WoS FAQ https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/RQcH6wZrusJHsEAr.pdf
latest DG FAQ https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/C2a9FnIi46pI6qDK.pdf
2nd place DG/Demons list https://www.40kstats.com/vanguardseries


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 17:01:37


Post by: SatanEatSeitan


Thanks blackmage for opening the new thread. Let's please Papa nurgle, as 9th edition looks promising so far, especially with the news of PMs going up to 2W and terminators to 3W


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 17:39:38


Post by: blackmage


yes IF codex will mantain what war of spider did 9th ed should be a good ed for death guard.
Dg have some intersting builds right now, termy blob, Pg carried in drill and Dg supported by nurglins, all competitive, we are testing something, what DG really lack is quality firepower, we dont have oblys, soon i will test a dg batt. and a IW patrol with 3x oblys. Blightlords at 3W, if cost is decent, could be really big.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 20:01:10


Post by: gigasnail


subbing in. thanks for starting the new thread!


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 21:46:59


Post by: Yoda79


Cool nice to have a new 9th thread. The changes we saw today will be good for DG I hope. First glance I thought wow now I wonder . We are actually loosing resilience with extra damage!!!


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 22:00:22


Post by: blackmage


2W on plagues is a big change, and if BL get to 3 is bigger, most builds will be totally revamped, of course anything will depend by cost but seem will be no more than 20%, so a plague should cost more or less 22pts, accettable i guess.
About extra damage, guess you intend multi wound weapons... we still have strat like cloud of flies, then if you play more hard targets as defilers and/or PCB, want see if your opponent aim all the antitank to PM-
@gigasnail yw


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 22:24:17


Post by: lare2


Nice one - thanks for setting this up blackmage.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/13 22:31:48


Post by: blackmage


 lare2 wrote:
Nice one - thanks for setting this up blackmage.

yw


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 04:55:35


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Thanks a ton Blackmage! And wow, plague Marines at 2W are terrifying. Their durability is not just going to double because of that, it will go up more than 100%. Because they are getting an extra wound that is T5 and with DR on it too. Its amazing news. And if our blightlords and death shroud get +1W too, that would be so amazingly awesome.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 06:54:23


Post by: pesusieni999


If damage doesn't overflow, it might be quite good change even if weapon damage profiles are increased. D2 weapons will risk wasting shots if you pass DR saves.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 10:05:45


Post by: blackmage


in any case marines at 2 wounds was mandatory, is a big and welcome change, finally you will see power armor played and not just cultist spam.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 15:03:58


Post by: Drakeslayer


Echoing others here - thanks blackmage for setting this up, really looking forward to 9th and feel that DG are in a decent place.

Thoughts on the value of a Mortarian's Chosen Son plague surgeon with re-rolling 1s and 2s for DR now we know that PMs are going up to 2 wounds?

Also, can you use Alembichal Narthecium more than once, given it is used before the battle? PM phalanxes backed up with Plague Surgeons could make for gnarly objective squatters.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 15:18:59


Post by: blackmage


for me mortarion's chosen sons is close to poxmongers as overall utility, now with Pm at 2w is better than before, now there will be a serious competition between BL blob and plague marines blob, PM that can get a 4+++ FNP 2w and reroll 1-2 look very though to shitf. Only drawback is, if you dont want use a drill, you need warptime.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 15:23:53


Post by: Eldarsif


I am currently using Mortarion's Chosen Sons and I do like the reroll aura on the Plague Surgeon, especially if you are moving your forces in a castle formation with him in the center.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 16:56:52


Post by: blackmage


 Eldarsif wrote:
I am currently using Mortarion's Chosen Sons and I do like the reroll aura on the Plague Surgeon, especially if you are moving your forces in a castle formation with him in the center.

what make poxmongers bit better is the fact that normally your plagues/blightlords/characters shouldn't be targettable, but your PBC/MBH/FBD are, so give them 4++ is normally better, because until they survive your opponent cant target anything you dont want he target.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/14 21:58:46


Post by: lare2


 Drakeslayer wrote:
Echoing others here - thanks blackmage for setting this up, really looking forward to 9th and feel that DG are in a decent place.

Thoughts on the value of a Mortarian's Chosen Son plague surgeon with re-rolling 1s and 2s for DR now we know that PMs are going up to 2 wounds?

Also, can you use Alembichal Narthecium more than once, given it is used before the battle? PM phalanxes backed up with Plague Surgeons could make for gnarly objective squatters.


No reason I can see why not. It's not a relic or anything and I've seen no faq saying otherwise. It can't be taken as gospel but Battlescribe doesn't have a problem with it either. If you've got the surgeons and the CP, go mad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the bye, I'm still all about the Poxmongers. I've too many engines to do otherwise for the foreseeable.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/15 07:44:08


Post by: Drakeslayer


Don't get me wrong, I think Poxmongers are pretty awesome too given the number of Daemon engines I have, but I do have a few reservations:

The Ironclot Furnace encourages castling up all your Daemon engines, which doesn't lend itself to the nature of 9th ed missions. You have to divide your forces - so the Furnace only really gives all your Daemon engines a resilience boost on that first turn.

While Daemon Engines are fast and can claim objectives quickly, their value lies in continually moving up and being played aggressively. I think PMs are potentially better at taking and holding objectives, also bearing in mind obsec.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/15 07:53:49


Post by: blackmage


the basic idea around that list work is simple...an hard core or demon engines (usually 3xPBC) with a 4++ and supported by healing (poxmonger stratagem and often a poxbringer with fleshy abundance) they simply dont die, behind them you have PM or BL, lot of lists play 15/20 nurglins for obj holding, and pbc provide some firepower and durable character protection. You dont need to spread all over the table your demons engines, you do when/if needed (anyway a PBC with 5++/5+++ and healed d3 wounds/turn is durable enough).


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/15 08:36:51


Post by: Fauk


Hey Guys what is your thought about the chaos spawn in a Death Guard army? I`m currently setting up a list for a tournament, that will hapen before the codex releases and the 2 wound thing. I thought that Chaos Spawn, with Contaminated Monstrosity is a really good investment for a mere 115 points and 1 CP you can get 20 Wounds, T5, S5 with atleast 10 attacks to a maximum of 50 attacks. Combine it with the 5++ relic and you get a tough unit for a low point cost.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/15 13:25:29


Post by: blackmage


spawns in a heavy primaris meta are excellent, cheap, fast enough and with a bit of support (prescience/warptime) they are a threath, played 5 and always repaid me. If you have spare point consider to play 2x5.

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [86 PL, 10CP, 1,521pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 205pts]: 1. Revoltingly Resilient, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Hellforged sword, Ironclot Furnace, Plague spewer, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 100pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Plague Marines [23 PL, 321pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 15x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 15x Blight Grenades, 15x Boltgun, 15x Krak Grenades, 15x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier [4 PL, 65pts]

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: 6. Arch-Contaminator, Plaguechosen

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [10 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Contaminated Monstrosity

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [22 PL, -2CP, 291pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Poxbringer [4 PL, 75pts]: Fleshy Abundance

+ Troops +

Nurglings [6 PL, 72pts]
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [6 PL, 72pts]
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [6 PL, 72pts]
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [11 PL, -3CP, 178pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cults of the Legion: Cult of Magic

Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, -1CP, 118pts]: Familiar, Inferno Combi-bolter, Magister, Prescience, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Total: [119 PL, 5CP, 1,990pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

that is the list i played against an ultra (Scorched heart mission), won but i feel marines are a force to reckon 9th as they was in 8th, he did some mistakes so i pulled off the victory, anyway i sense the list is ok to compete.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/15 13:48:53


Post by: broxus


So any rumors on a DG codex or when we should see it? Biggest frustration I have had with them is they need a new codex since it is the oldest in the game.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/15 16:11:25


Post by: Jidmah


Actual stuff we know is part of a very slimy model, going to 2W in the codex and being affected be the imperial weapon upgrades before the codex.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 12:05:20


Post by: blackmage


what do you guys think about this
Spoiler:

Death guard battalion- pox mongers
Damon prince- wings, sword (wl- arch contaminator, ironclot furnace) 195 (miasma)
Sorcerer (putrescence vitality, blades of putrefaction)
5 plague marines- knives, 2 flails 120
5 plague marines- knives, 2 flails 120
9 plague marines- bolters, 2 flails 192
Noxious blight bringer- Damon’s toll 60
Biologus putrefier 65
Foul blight spawn 85
5 spawn- contaminated monstrosity 115
5 spawn- contaminated monstrosity 115
Plague burst crawler 170
Plague burst crawler 170
Plague burst crawler 170
Rhino- contaminated monstrosity 78
Rhino- contaminated monstrosity 78
Word bearers patrol
Sorcerer termie armor- prescience, warp time 108
10 cultists 60

seem pretty fun and strong, much resilient wounds and fast enough. Anyway i dont think DG will make the cut at major tournaments, marines are still a step above us.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 15:39:47


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Anyone tried Typhus in 9th ed?

I am toying with the idea of Typhus, A unit of 3 deathshroud Termis, 3 units of 10 poxwalkers and a Nortilith Crown for a Anvil flank. No prizes for guessing what the Hammer flank will be made up of.

Typhus makes the pox walkers T4 and S4. And they are immune to morale. The Nortilith crown gives all the Pox walkers 5++ and then they inherently have a 5+ FNP. The flank will take a lot of firepower to bring down. The deathshroud are there to give Typhus added protection, and also to help out the melee on that flank if something hard charges them. They give Typhus +1 attack, and they are no slouch themselves. The Crown also gives reroll to Typhus's psychic spells.

The only problem is this flank is slow. So, its best used as an Anvil. The aura of the Crown does grow though, so it does allow you to move forward as its aura expands. The whole flank is infantry though, so you can pretty much move straight through any ruins or terrain you encounter.

Honestly, given how resilient this setup is, I think your opponent will rather focus on other targets because this flank only starts becoming a problem earliest turn 2, and maybe turn 3 when it is near enough to a midboard objective. So, they will likely ignore it on turn 1 to focus on other targets since it doesn't have much shooting.

The slow speed is deceptive though, because you are free to advance move on turn 1 if you want to. So, you should be able to move and then be within charge range of a midboard objective by turn 2 if you are going straight forward since most midboard objectives are about 10 to 12 inches away from your deployment zone.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 19:30:47


Post by: Jidmah


In my experience, both Typhus and deathshrouds need to deep strike, otherwise they will never get anywhere. Also keep in mind that you can upgrade Typhus with the re-roll ones aura.
Too bad that the landraider isn't anywhere near viable.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 19:38:49


Post by: lare2


Aye, aiming to run him next tourney I'm at for the first time in 9th. I'll be deepstriking him in with some BLT. If you get a chance to run your idea though, would be cool to hear how it goes. I own a crown but never use it.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 20:52:09


Post by: rockyandadrianaaa


Hi, I've recently started to collect DG, can someone explain me what combo there're behind PM and Termite?

I'm very interested to fully understand how can I play my DG.

thanks in advance guys


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 21:29:33


Post by: astro_nomicon


Grenade strat + overwhelming generosity for extra range to allow you to dump a full round of blight grenades coming out of deep strike for a big splash of spine damage.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/16 21:40:16


Post by: Fauk


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Anyone tried Typhus in 9th ed?

I am toying with the idea of Typhus, A unit of 3 deathshroud Termis, 3 units of 10 poxwalkers and a Nortilith Crown for a Anvil flank. No prizes for guessing what the Hammer flank will be made up of.

Typhus makes the pox walkers T4 and S4. And they are immune to morale. The Nortilith crown gives all the Pox walkers 5++ and then they inherently have a 5+ FNP. The flank will take a lot of firepower to bring down. The deathshroud are there to give Typhus added protection, and also to help out the melee on that flank if something hard charges them. They give Typhus +1 attack, and they are no slouch themselves. The Crown also gives reroll to Typhus's psychic spells.

The only problem is this flank is slow. So, its best used as an Anvil. The aura of the Crown does grow though, so it does allow you to move forward as its aura expands. The whole flank is infantry though, so you can pretty much move straight through any ruins or terrain you encounter.

Honestly, given how resilient this setup is, I think your opponent will rather focus on other targets because this flank only starts becoming a problem earliest turn 2, and maybe turn 3 when it is near enough to a midboard objective. So, they will likely ignore it on turn 1 to focus on other targets since it doesn't have much shooting.

The slow speed is deceptive though, because you are free to advance move on turn 1 if you want to. So, you should be able to move and then be within charge range of a midboard objective by turn 2 if you are going straight forward since most midboard objectives are about 10 to 12 inches away from your deployment zone.


I think you vastly overestimate the durability of this setup. Your Noctilith crown is T8 with a 5+ invul and way less wounds then an imperial knight. So, if this thing gets shot down, which shouldn`t be that hard considering that everyone is spamming Lascannons at the moment and since it is visible probably from every angle, because of its size, your Poxwalker will drop in durability a lot. Furthermore, this flank is sooooooo fething slow that if you do not hold at least one objective with it, your opponent can safely ignore it for at least 2 full rounds.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/17 04:53:40


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Well, thats why the Hammer flank will be made up of Daemon Engines centered around a DP with an ironclot furnace. So, I am kind of thinking there will be a stronger incentive to shoot at Daemon Engines which are already threatening mid board objectives turn 1, plus they can shoot back, vs shooting a Crown that is just providing an Invul buff to pox walkers who can't even shoot.

So, Hammer and Anvil. Anvil is poxwalker Typus flank, while Hammer is Daemon Engines and Ironclot Furnace DP. You don't need to go for every mid board objective on turn 1. The Anvil flank can take a bit longer to get there, I feel. As long as the Hammer flank of daemon engines is already mixing it up from the get go. What do you think?

I arrived at this setup because you can usually only cover one flank with an ironclot furnace character, you can't really cover your entire front line.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/17 07:49:37


Post by: Xirax


How do you guys run competitively blightlord terminators. I've found their movement to be a real lack luster in 9th ed missions. I'll try warp time next time to negate this.

The following list is in mind..

Spoiler:


++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [9 PL, -2CP, 168pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-2CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 108pts]: Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Force stave, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [97 PL, 9CP, 1,832pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 195pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Daemonic axe, Ironclot Furnace, Warlord, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, -1CP, 200pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 1. Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, Plaguechosen, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 166pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword, Power fist
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [22 PL, 308pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 175pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Rothail volley gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, -1CP, 81pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Contaminated Monstrosity

++ Total: [106 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++



Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/17 08:28:30


Post by: lare2


@eldenfirefly: You seem to have a plan for both your flanks... what's going up the centre?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xirax wrote:
How do you guys run competitively blightlord terminators. I've found their movement to be a real lack luster in 9th ed missions. I'll try warp time next time to negate this.

The following list is in mind..

Spoiler:


++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [9 PL, -2CP, 168pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-2CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 108pts]: Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Force stave, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [97 PL, 9CP, 1,832pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 195pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Daemonic axe, Ironclot Furnace, Warlord, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, -1CP, 200pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 1. Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, Plaguechosen, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 166pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword, Power fist
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [22 PL, 308pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 175pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Rothail volley gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, -1CP, 81pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Contaminated Monstrosity

++ Total: [106 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++



They don't massively need movement. They control the area they come down in and their firepower can still influence outside their movement range. You need to be careful and think about where they come down, be it for threatening an objective in the enemy territory, controlling mid field, or whatever else you had in mind. They will attract attention wherever they land.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/17 12:29:47


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 lare2 wrote:
@eldenfirefly: You seem to have a plan for both your flanks... what's going up the centre?


Nothing much really. If you look at most 2000 point strike missions, all the mid board objectives are on the two flanks. There are actually very few missions where there is a center objective. lol

My deathguard list does have a squad of contaminated monstrosity 5 man chaos spawn. That will likely go up the center. They are fine on their own, and nimble enough to swing around to either side to lend support. And if opponent wants to shoot at chaos spawn, I am perfectly fine with that too. They are pretty cheap.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/17 16:54:57


Post by: blackmage


Xirax wrote:
How do you guys run competitively blightlord terminators. I've found their movement to be a real lack luster in 9th ed missions. I'll try warp time next time to negate this.

The following list is in mind..

Spoiler:


++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [9 PL, -2CP, 168pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-2CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 108pts]: Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Force stave, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [97 PL, 9CP, 1,832pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 195pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Daemonic axe, Ironclot Furnace, Warlord, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, -1CP, 200pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 1. Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, Plaguechosen, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 166pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword, Power fist
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [22 PL, 308pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 175pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Rothail volley gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, -1CP, 81pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Contaminated Monstrosity

++ Total: [106 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++


ppls need to shake away how we played in 8th, now BLT usually have a different use, control center of table covered by PBC and cloud of flies, they DONT need to be DS always, with a spawn they are nearly impossible to charge e deny large portion of table, since start of battle. I never DS my BLT, in a normal table made for 9th ed, BLT can be easily hide start of battle then moved where needed, and yes waptime is useful, but i used most on PBC/chaos spawn than BLT. If i was you i will take out the 2nd prince for a plaguecaster and get the 2nd rhino, i prefer PBC over FBD but is on anyway, the list can work
Should take into consideration a bell guy with 5++ relic, and contaminated monstrosity on rhinos.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 03:37:37


Post by: Eldenfirefly


BTW, I love a challenge and quirky builds. So, assuming we give contaminated monstrosity to a Rhino, or even a LR. Then rush that onto a midboard objective turn 1.

What would be the best thing to put in such a transport? Plague Marines and a biologus? The plague marines then charge out of the transport and use blight bombardment to throw a whole load of mortal wounds straight into the opponent's army?

Or, go for close combat melee? Blightlords or deathshroud charging into close combat on round 2 from the transport?

Got curious about this because of the LR thread. If even Deathguard can't make a LR with DR work, I am not sure which other faction can do it. lol Of course, if we are using Plague Marines, then ultimately, a Rhino is a far cheaper option. But still, having a squad of deathshroud or blightlords charge into combat on turn 2 sounds pretty appealing. And even for the PM option, a LR is a far more resilient transport than a Rhino.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 05:53:01


Post by: Jidmah


You can make the LR 5++/5+++ as DG, but that doesn't change the fact that you are paying almost 300 points for four lascannons and two heavy bolters. It's a joke compared to any other shooting platform.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 07:22:18


Post by: BleachHawk


 Jidmah wrote:
You can make the LR 5++/5+++ as DG, but that doesn't change the fact that you are paying almost 300 points for four lascannons and two heavy bolters. It's a joke compared to any other shooting platform.


While I absolutely agree with this, maybe it's more useful as a transport now that it may shoot when tagged in melee? I suspect it's not because being forced to shoot its lascas at whatever chaff it was tagged by still is inefficient. But I would like to hear if anyone has tried that out in 9th yet.

Edit: maybe they update the machine spirit ability to ignore the demand to shoot the unit that tagged you in melee?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 08:00:40


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I haven't tried yet, but I got a painted LR that hasn't seen action in years. So if Deathguard can make a LR work, I would be keen to try it for sure.

Its not so much the shooting. thats a bonus. Its also that its probably the most resilient transport we can have. So, if it suceeds in transporting a very effective payload of infantry to where we want it to while protecting them, plus it got to shoot as well, then it would have fufilled its dual roles of shooting plus transport.

Just to add to this. Theoratically, a deathshroud or blightlord termi or plague marine squad can use this LR twice.

Round 1: move up the board in LR, LR shoots.

Round 2: Unload, shoot+charge something, clear a midboard obj.

Round 3: get back into LR, LR moves into enemy deployment zone.

Round 4: Unload, shoot+charge something, clear an enemy backfield objective.

I mean, deathguard terminators only move 4 inches. Short of using a LR, there is almost no way it can do something like what I described above. Not unless they get lucky on long bomb charges.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 08:09:04


Post by: Jidmah


I have a list with one queued up for one of the next games, trying to drop a unit deathshrouds into the heart of the enemy army. I'll let you know how that went.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 08:10:53


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 Jidmah wrote:
I have a list with one queued up for one of the next games, trying to drop a unit deathshrouds into the heart of the enemy army. I'll let you know how that went.


You mean your list will be running a LR with deathshrouds in them? Oh yes! Do let me know how that went. Very keen to know. I do assume you are putting contaminated monstrosity on the LR right? How many models of deathshroud are you running? 3? 4? 5?

Or are you just deep striking them in?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 09:19:12


Post by: Jidmah


Eldenfirefly wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
I have a list with one queued up for one of the next games, trying to drop a unit deathshrouds into the heart of the enemy army. I'll let you know how that went.


You mean your list will be running a LR with deathshrouds in them? Oh yes! Do let me know how that went. Very keen to know. I do assume you are putting contaminated monstrosity on the LR right? How many models of deathshroud are you running? 3? 4? 5?

Or are you just deep striking them in?


It's a contaminated monstrosity and at least for T1 I'll keep the daemon's toll near it with 5 deathshrouds inside. Originally I planned to run 4 with a malignant plague caster and surgeon or a LoC upgraded to plague chosen, but at that point just running Mortarion is more point efficient.
Getting putrefying blades from a forward daemon prince and creeping blight should be enough handle any target they manage to charge.

I'm not a fan of deep striking deathshrouds unless you are trying to protect Mortarion with them. They are just too likely to fail the 9" charge.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 12:15:12


Post by: blackmage


lately i played 2 contaminated rhinos+demon toll i would try it first time i have chance in a tournament, they eat lot of punishment before get down.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 12:35:58


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 Jidmah wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
I have a list with one queued up for one of the next games, trying to drop a unit deathshrouds into the heart of the enemy army. I'll let you know how that went.


You mean your list will be running a LR with deathshrouds in them? Oh yes! Do let me know how that went. Very keen to know. I do assume you are putting contaminated monstrosity on the LR right? How many models of deathshroud are you running? 3? 4? 5?

Or are you just deep striking them in?


It's a contaminated monstrosity and at least for T1 I'll keep the daemon's toll near it with 5 deathshrouds inside. Originally I planned to run 4 with a malignant plague caster and surgeon or a LoC upgraded to plague chosen, but at that point just running Mortarion is more point efficient.
Getting putrefying blades from a forward daemon prince and creeping blight should be enough handle any target they manage to charge.

I'm not a fan of deep striking deathshrouds unless you are trying to protect Mortarion with them. They are just too likely to fail the 9" charge.


wow cool! Do let me know how the game went! Honestly, if deathguard can/t make a LR work, I don't know if any faction can do it.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 17:53:10


Post by: lare2


 blackmage wrote:
Xirax wrote:
How do you guys run competitively blightlord terminators. I've found their movement to be a real lack luster in 9th ed missions. I'll try warp time next time to negate this.

The following list is in mind..

Spoiler:


++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [9 PL, -2CP, 168pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [-2CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 108pts]: Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Force stave, Mark of Nurgle, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 60pts]: Mark of Nurgle
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [97 PL, 9CP, 1,832pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 195pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Daemonic axe, Ironclot Furnace, Warlord, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, -1CP, 200pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 1. Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, Plaguechosen, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 156pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Blight Grenades, 4x Boltgun, 4x Krak Grenades, 4x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [8 PL, 166pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword, Power fist
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [22 PL, 308pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 175pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Rothail volley gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, -1CP, 81pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Contaminated Monstrosity

++ Total: [106 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++


ppls need to shake away how we played in 8th, now BLT usually have a different use, control center of table covered by PBC and cloud of flies, they DONT need to be DS always, with a spawn they are nearly impossible to charge e deny large portion of table, since start of battle. I never DS my BLT, in a normal table made for 9th ed, BLT can be easily hide start of battle then moved where needed, and yes waptime is useful, but i used most on PBC/chaos spawn than BLT. If i was you i will take out the 2nd prince for a plaguecaster and get the 2nd rhino, i prefer PBC over FBD but is on anyway, the list can work
Should take into consideration a bell guy with 5++ relic, and contaminated monstrosity on rhinos.


Out of curiosity, are you playing on the new recommended minimum sized tables? Where i game, we're still on the larger size... does it make much of a difference for us with table size? Not that it'll make much difference to me. There's no way my local area will go to the new minimum size.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 18:23:34


Post by: blackmage


yes they changed table size and things change bit, but most important is how the terrain is build, at least 1/4 have to be covered or is the same turkey shoot we seen in 8th edition.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 18:41:35


Post by: Brymm


The Land Raider doesn’t need the 5+ invul, it has a +2 armor save and would need some melta + to even activate the invulnerable. Against lascannons, plasma and anything else except melta, it will be 5+ or better on the armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Soooooo eradicators


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 20:35:50


Post by: blackmage


LR cost bit too much for me.. better use 2 rhinos with FNP, same cps spent and anyway 22 wounds


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/18 21:11:00


Post by: Claas


 blackmage wrote:
LR cost bit too much for me.. better use 2 rhinos with FNP, same cps spent and anyway 22 wounds


I have been toying with the idea of a LR with a NB with Daemons Tolle but also think 2 Rhinos would be better. Give them both DR and a 5++, will help them survive going second. Also against a less shooty opponent you can always have the NB get inside a rhino with some PMs and race for an objective. Heck if the rhino gets wrecked then you footslog it to objective with 5++.

How about hellbrutes? I don’t know how much more useful they be than Daemon Engines but you could give some Hellbrutes DR and put them in the 5++ bubble. Fairly solid and profile doesn’t degrade.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 04:24:16


Post by: Eldenfirefly


The blight haulers seem to be a better deal than Hellbrutes. They already have DR so you don't need to spend CP to give them DR. And they are pretty close to a hellbrute except they are damon engines, which has its benefits. Because Ironclot furnance benefits daemon engines.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 07:32:09


Post by: Jidmah


A single twin lascannon/ML helbrute sitting on a backfield objective and sniping vehicles with the new stratagem for re-rolls could and maybe fire frenzy could be something to consider.

On a budget, you could also try plasmacannon (you can DR overheats) and fist with storm bolter (needs two ranged weapons for stratagem) to clear marines off an objective. But unless you are limited by your collection, a fleshmower will do this better.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 10:59:03


Post by: blackmage


In my limited plytest actually pbc are a must include, then there is competition between haulers and drones, if I should choose now I would go for drones with fleshmower


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 15:00:45


Post by: panzers


Has anyone tested multiple defilers instead of plagueburst crawlers?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 15:39:33


Post by: Tycho


lately i played 2 contaminated rhinos+demon toll i would try it first time i have chance in a tournament, they eat lot of punishment before get down.


Look who suddenly likes Plague Marines! Glad you came around. I have really liked the Demon's Toll in my games of 9th, and I think between that and the Chosen Sons Plague Surgeon abilities, they're going to be really strong in 9th (provided they are Warptimed, or have Rhinos), but I have a question-

I haven't caught any of the official GW news channels lately - was it actually confirmed that "all marines" included chaos (for getting 2w)? Because they've said "All Marines" in the past with things and it did not include Chaos. I'm also a little worried that the corresponding points hike for getting that second wound could render PMs too expensive again (ditto my Rubric marines) - have we heard anything "official" on that?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 15:53:53


Post by: lare2


That's all we have to go on. Points increase for loyal troops is stated at about 20% increase. We can probably expect the same.

[Thumb - 20200814_110828.jpg]


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 16:14:13


Post by: blackmage


Tycho wrote:
lately i played 2 contaminated rhinos+demon toll i would try it first time i have chance in a tournament, they eat lot of punishment before get down.


Look who suddenly likes Plague Marines! Glad you came around. I have really liked the Demon's Toll in my games of 9th, and I think between that and the Chosen Sons Plague Surgeon abilities, they're going to be really strong in 9th (provided they are Warptimed, or have Rhinos), but I have a question-

I haven't caught any of the official GW news channels lately - was it actually confirmed that "all marines" included chaos (for getting 2w)? Because they've said "All Marines" in the past with things and it did not include Chaos. I'm also a little worried that the corresponding points hike for getting that second wound could render PMs too expensive again (ditto my Rubric marines) - have we heard anything "official" on that?

I m testing, is not like or not, still blightlords have an edge, they need less support, just Pm play better the mission.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 18:34:18


Post by: Tycho


That's all we have to go on. Points increase for loyal troops is stated at about 20% increase. We can probably expect the same.


Thanks! That's more of a confirmation than I thought we had. What does everyone think? If we do get the 20% increase but 2w - worth it? Or have they priced themselves out of contention again?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 19:35:08


Post by: lare2


Ca. 20pts per marine? Think I'd happily pay that for what we'd be getting. Most lists I'd probably be running about 10 so it'd only be about 20-30pts more. I'd happily trim some fat for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not that I'd have much choice for tourney games - my only painted troops are PM and pox and the latter still don't cut the mustard.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 19:41:28


Post by: Sherrypie


 Brymm wrote:
The Land Raider doesn’t need the 5+ invul, it has a +2 armor save and would need some melta + to even activate the invulnerable. Against lascannons, plasma and anything else except melta, it will be 5+ or better on the armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Soooooo eradicators


It's not like there are ways to give -3 guns like lascannons more AP at first turn ranges. *coughs in Devastator Doctrine*


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/19 22:20:58


Post by: Dedwoods42


 lare2 wrote:
Ca. 20pts per marine? Think I'd happily pay that for what we'd be getting. Most lists I'd probably be running about 10 so it'd only be about 20-30pts more. I'd happily trim some fat for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not that I'd have much choice for tourney games - my only painted troops are PM and pox and the latter still don't cut the mustard.


It amounts to around 22pts per PM. Personally I feel that 2ish extra points over an Intercessor for T5 and DR is fantastic - DR gets exponentially more efficient the more wounds you have. PMs and Blightlords will be very, very good provided the points don't stray too far.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/20 19:11:04


Post by: Rihgu


 Dedwoods42 wrote:
 lare2 wrote:
Ca. 20pts per marine? Think I'd happily pay that for what we'd be getting. Most lists I'd probably be running about 10 so it'd only be about 20-30pts more. I'd happily trim some fat for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not that I'd have much choice for tourney games - my only painted troops are PM and pox and the latter still don't cut the mustard.


It amounts to around 22pts per PM. Personally I feel that 2ish extra points over an Intercessor for T5 and DR is fantastic - DR gets exponentially more efficient the more wounds you have. PMs and Blightlords will be very, very good provided the points don't stray too far.


Which is why I'm personally expecting 25-27 point plague marines, honestly.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/20 19:32:38


Post by: Xirax


well, infiltrators are 24p.. they have nice aura, but... no T5, no DR or weapon upgrade options..


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/20 21:22:13


Post by: Jidmah


Infiltrators pay all those points for being able to infiltrate, which is an extremely powerful ability.

Plague marines at 25-27 points would just make them useless again. A fair price would be 22-23 points, as an increase of 4-5 would match the tacticals 3 points multiplied by their additional resilience from DR and T5.
There is no reason why the extra wound on plague marines should cost more than twice as much as the extra wound on tacticals if that wound is not twice as durable.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/20 21:45:55


Post by: darthryan


 Jidmah wrote:
Infiltrators pay all those points for being able to infiltrate, which is an extremely powerful ability.

Plague marines at 25-27 points would just make them useless again. A fair price would be 22-23 points, as an increase of 4-5 would match the tacticals 3 points multiplied by their additional resilience from DR and T5.
There is no reason why the extra wound on plague marines should cost more than twice as much as the extra wound on tacticals if that wound is not twice as durable.



Ofcourse there is a reason you have to pay the not loyalist tax


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 04:01:35


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Personally, I wouldn't celebrate until I see the points and adjustments officially. This is GW we are talking about. They could easily overcost plague marines. Its not like they haven't ever overcosted a unit or model in terms of points before.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 06:37:49


Post by: Jidmah


GW is clearly listening to popular opinion these days. The more idiots are running around crying for 27 point plague marines or even the replacement of DR with a weaker rule, the more likely it is going to happen.
The only thing you can do about that is call people out on their logical errors and correct them.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 09:02:57


Post by: Nora


Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 09:04:02


Post by: Jidmah


 Nora wrote:
Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

No.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 09:14:28


Post by: Nora


 Jidmah wrote:
 Nora wrote:
Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

No.


Okay thanks. I am looking into if there is a cheap way to get a psyker for the primary objective... But maybe this is a dead end.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 14:54:38


Post by: Rihgu


Are you sure that's a no? Is there a rule I'm missing?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 20:20:16


Post by: Jidmah


Rihgu wrote:
Are you sure that's a no? Is there a rule I'm missing?


There would have to be a rule to miss in order for it to work - there is no permission to summon understrength units.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/21 20:50:54


Post by: lare2


 Nora wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Nora wrote:
Regarding the Daemonic Ritual; In a Patched Play Game, is it possible to summon an under-strenthed unit if you do not have the points saved for a full unit? Fore example one nurgling base?

No.


Okay thanks. I am looking into if there is a cheap way to get a psyker for the primary objective... But maybe this is a dead end.


It might just be me - had a few beers - but how do you mean? If you want to get a cheap psycher using summoning, you could always summon a Poxbringer. Apologies if not understanding you right.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/22 11:39:18


Post by: Abaddon303


I must confess I haven't run blightlords yet (still in the box, DG is a relatively new army for me).

I was always planning to deepstrike them in, that plan didn't change when 9th came round i thought the obvious would be to drop them onto or near a midfield objective and they would be almost impossible to move.

I've now noticed @blackmage say he starts them on the board, i just watch a tabletop tactics vid that also suggests starting them on the board. How does that work exactly? 4" movement just seems like they will miss the whole battle??

Do you advance them first turn? start them on the edge of your deployment? are you running them with combibolters and using the strat to add 6" range? or the rapidfire3 strat? or both? Or are you resigned to the fact that they won't be contributing much in the first two or three turns? I guess if nothing else they are a big distraction carnifex and bullet sponge right from the off...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/22 12:31:04


Post by: Jidmah


You always have objective in midfield which even slowpokes like DG terminators should be able to reach within 2 turns. You just stay there and have the battle come to you, because ignoring them will mean losing the battle for your opponent.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/22 21:11:00


Post by: Abaddon303


But aren't the central objectives generally 12" from your deployment zone? So even front-lining them, they're not gonna be within 3" until turn 3 and won't start scoring until your turn 4 command phase. Unless you advance?

Although I guess if your opponent is already on the objective in your turn 2 you're getting the extra movement from potentially charging them.
Still seems like deploying on your front line and in line with a central objective is a must?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/22 22:56:06


Post by: Jidmah


Quite a few of the tournament pack missions have objectives within 7" or less of your deployment edge. It really depends on the mission


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/22 23:13:05


Post by: blackmage


dont forget most lists that run Bl runs warptime too, and usually PBC that move 9"+3" average, BL deny the whole central part of table to opponent, no one want engage in melee with them and until PBC are alive, hardly they can be shooted. Pm just play the mission, BL deny it to opponent.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/22 23:33:35


Post by: Abaddon303


Sorry you've lost me. Why is the pbc significant? Are you using cloud of flies? Or do you mean blighthauler?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/23 14:17:41


Post by: blackmage


Cloud of flies so pbc with a 4++ save are relevant


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/23 20:07:59


Post by: Abaddon303


cloud of flies, gotcha.
final question? what's best loadout for a unit of 10?
2x flails
8x combibolter & axe

Is it worth chucking in a couple of plasma or melta?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 01:49:14


Post by: Azuza001


I don't know about others but I run 10 blightlord with 2 flails, 8 combi plasma and axes. Its an expensive unit but as others have suggested the pbc can help a lot in keeping them alive. My favorite trick is a lord with the relic pistol and arch contaminator near them. Giving them reroll 1's to hit with the plasma and reroll all failed wounds with the plasma against a target within 18" is devastating, you pretty much own an objective they are heading for that way. Nothing wants to get within 18" of them, and if something does make a mad dash to get them into cc well the flails can handel that normally on their own.

Their speed does hinder them some, but normally what happens is your opponent will try and get on the objective before you because its worth points and they are faster. This helps you because you can shoot 1 target then charge the target on the objective to get them up the field. Only problem i have found is when my opponent tries and alpha rushes me. If they can some how keep the terms locked in my own deployment zone things become harder for the army to handel.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 05:47:16


Post by: Jidmah


Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about others but I run 10 blightlord with 2 flails, 8 combi plasma and axes. Its an expensive unit but as others have suggested the pbc can help a lot in keeping them alive. My favorite trick is a lord with the relic pistol and arch contaminator near them. Giving them reroll 1's to hit with the plasma and reroll all failed wounds with the plasma against a target within 18" is devastating, you pretty much own an objective they are heading for that way. Nothing wants to get within 18" of them, and if something does make a mad dash to get them into cc well the flails can handel that normally on their own.

Their speed does hinder them some, but normally what happens is your opponent will try and get on the objective before you because its worth points and they are faster. This helps you because you can shoot 1 target then charge the target on the objective to get them up the field. Only problem i have found is when my opponent tries and alpha rushes me. If they can some how keep the terms locked in my own deployment zone things become harder for the army to handel.


What plague fleets are you using?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 07:35:28


Post by: darthryan


Does anyone else use rapier gun battery


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 09:02:31


Post by: Nithaniel


I've taken to running a mixed nurgle detachment with nurglings poxbringer for +1 S to spitters and fleshy abundance and a CSM MoN sorcerer for warptime and prescience on the Blightlords. I run Blightlords with combibolters and pop the strat to increase rapid fire volume. 6 shots each with prescience and VotlW is quite effective. Plus you can warptime so 2X advance them turn 1, if lucky with advances they can hit a centre objective


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 11:02:19


Post by: blackmage


Abaddon303 wrote:
cloud of flies, gotcha.
final question? what's best loadout for a unit of 10?
2x flails
8x combibolter & axe

Is it worth chucking in a couple of plasma or melta?

i always kept them cheap, but consider how many veichles/heavy infantry are played now maybe 8 combiplasmas/2 flails are ok


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 12:20:34


Post by: Abaddon303


yeh, the fact it's now only 7pts to upgrade to a combiplas makes it much more tempting in 9th. It's only a 16% increase in cost for much improved firepower...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 13:06:36


Post by: Xirax


Someone could do the math for points/damage comparison between:

8x combi-plasma vs. 8x 6 shot rapid fire combi-bolters as plague weapons within DP arch-contaminator aura.

In my experience the combi-bolters do quite good >MEQ lifting. Assuming there is two flails in the 10man unit.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 14:12:47


Post by: Azuza001


The combi bolter with strat is a very good idea, i never considered that. Add vets or blades of purtrifaction to wound most tough stuff on a 4 or 5.... hmmm.

I go mortarions anvil myself, being able to drop dmg on a big blob of terms by 1 is huge weather you actually use it or not. Sometimes just having access is enough to stop your opponent from doing things.


So doing quick and dirty math hammer.... your doing about 5.5 wounds to a t8 target with just bolters after everything is said and done with 8 combi bolters and 2 flails in that group with vets of the long war.

Alternatively plasma would net you about 17.2 dmg again assuming you have 8 and you used vets of the long war and overcharge.

Both setups assumed reroll 1's to hit and reroll wounds with the relic pistol.

However add the cost in and we are looking at 500 pts for 10 blightlord terms, 8 with combi plasma and 2 with flails. 8 bolter terms would give you 444 pts. 56 pts is significant in our army at this point.


Finally let's consider t7 instead of t8

T7 bolters get you 8.2 wounds, so 8. T7 on plasma will do 19.5, so more than enough to pop a vehicle with room to spare.

This was all done assuming a 3+ save. Honestly the lower the t goes the better the bolters look, shooting at meq the bolters will do about 10 wounds so enough to wipe out a 5 man primaris squad. Plasma will do the same without needing vets though. Its the lack of ap thats hurting the bolters. If you were shooting at a target with 4+ or worse save.... but even then the plasma does more work. Only time the bolters will have the advantage would probably be hordes, and even then you can still fire the bolter part of the plasma and not overcharge.




Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 15:30:25


Post by: blackmage


if you want handle the marines lists that are coming out you need plasma. Remember the stratagem transhuman physiology, wound on 4+ ap0 and 1 damage lead you nowhere, ap-3 and d2 is completely different thing, you keep wound on 4's but they save at 6+ and any failed save mean 1 dead primaris.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 15:53:05


Post by: Sazzlefrats


I played a game yesterday. Utterly and completely destroyed by Harlequins... I had just about no army left by the bottom of turn 3.

Usually when I lose, I see where I made a mistake(s) or an obvious flaw in my list, but in this case I think its a case of the rules outclassment.

Here's my list

Aux Support
Tzeentch Sorcerer (Cult of Magic, Smite, Astral Blast, Warp Time, Deathhex) (relic +1 to cast)

Deathguard Battalion

Daemon Prince on foot with sword
Sorcerer w/ Blades of Putrification & the +1str/Toughness & Archcontamintor & Wormspitter (could have been nice)

Foul Blightspawn

5 x Plague Marines 2 x Melta, Champ w/ Plasma Gun & Powerfist
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Melta, Champ w/ Plasma Gun & Powerfist
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Melta, Champ w/ Plasma Gun & Powerfist
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Plasma gun, Champ w/ Plasma Gun
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Plasma gun, Champ w/ Plasma Gun
5 x Plague Marines 2 x Plasma gun, Champ w/ Plasma Gun
Rhino w/ Extra Combi-bolter
Rhino w/ Extra Combi-bolter
Dreadclaw (magnificent) w/ Mutated Monstrosity
Defiler with Combi-bolter & Scourge & Mutated Monstrosity
Plagueburst Crawer w/ Sluggar & Entropy Cannon
Plagueburst Crawer w/ Sluggar & Entropy Cannon
3 x Chaos Spawn


I played against (Frozen Stars (+1 charge)
Shadowseer
Shadowseer
Troupe Master (Twilight Fang)
Solitaire
Death Jester (Humble Cruelty)
Death Jester (Humble Cruelty)
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
5x Harlequin Troop, 2 x Kiss, 2 x Caress, 2 x Fusion Pistol
6 Bikes with Haywire Cannons & Glaives
6 Bikes with Haywire Cannons & Glaives
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons
Transport w/ 2 Shuriken Cannons


I did not get first turn.
T1 One unit of bikes got moved twice and blasted my defiler to bits. He took 3 objectives (5 objective mission)
T1 for me... I unloaded my transports and shot and charged that bike unit and used the momvement to get up on my two objectives and put a 5 man unit in the center to contest, knowing they would die. I also warptimed my dreadclaw deep into his army, I wanted to blow it up and catch his army in the blast... as it was I got 4 units in the thermal jets. I actually thought I was going to be just fine. Also charged his other jetbike unit with dreadclaw, rhino, and troop squad... thought I could at least half... .... I was wrong.

t2... bikes left combat, shot up my troops and charged another... I lost 5 plagues.
Solitare killed another plague squad
10 harlequins went after another unit... basically I lost 2 rhinos and dreadclaw, and 10 plaguemarines
t2 for me... he made almost all of his saves so I killed 2 harlequins and put 3 wounds on the solitaire. But most of my guys were stuck in combat, and my 2 PBC weren't accurate enough..... not enough guns.

His t3... all my troops were killed. Harlequins leaving combat, shooting, and charging is just too much to deal with. And the demon prince got killed.

The first big change is plaguespitters on my PBC, getting one tied up in combat was lame. The foul blightspawn was okay, all that 4+ invulnerables really ruined my day.

So is it army outclassed or... flawed build strategy on my part? Or did I really get out of my transports too soon. (my plasma guns were useless without being able to supercharge them). All bikes and transports had a native -1 to hit.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 16:56:27


Post by: blackmage


that is one kind of list why im testing much more heavy fire, 9th edition will be the veichles edition and lack good and reliable antitank is a problem, i started to list 3x dual twin linked lascannon contemptors, 12 ab 2+ lascannons shoots plus entropy cannons (if really needed, but i stills suggest to play spitters so -1 to hit are a no issues) can deal with transports, no matter if they have 4++ invul. Another suggestion is play 9-10 men plague marines units with biologus, the grenade stratagem is too strong, itself it can delete 1 unit each turn no matter the save they have. If you play 3x9 plague and screen them properly with PBC you should deliver some damage, or play just 1 ten men squad with biologus loaded into dreadclaw or termite, unload use the +6 range to plague weapons throw 10d6 grenade and cancel anything. Play 3x PCB with spitters , it's the best tank in the game, if you have ironclot furnace they are nearly unkillable.
PS: but with deathhex....how is possible you cant reset 1 unit each turn?
Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [106 PL, 8CP, 1,998pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [8 PL, 160pts]: 6. Arch-Contaminator, Hellforged sword, Ironclot Furnace, Warlord

Sorcerer [5 PL, 90pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, Bolt pistol, Force sword

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 192pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 6x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 6x Blight Grenades, 6x Boltgun, 6x Krak Grenades, 6x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption
. Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Poxwalker: 10x Improvised weapon

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Poxwalker: 10x Improvised weapon

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier [4 PL, 65pts]

Blightlord Terminators [22 PL, 308pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]

Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 185pts]: Contaminated Monstrosity, 2x Twin lascannon

Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 185pts]: Contaminated Monstrosity, 2x Twin lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, -1CP, 78pts]: Combi-bolter, Contaminated Monstrosity

++ Total: [106 PL, 8CP, 1,998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 18:16:23


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Oh... I deleted one unit of bikes... barely... even though.. death hex managed to fail... even with a command reroll and that +1 to cast.

So you think lead with the PBC? I led with the defiler, rhinos and I forced that dreadclaw fast and hard into the center of the board to pop and get popped. So maybe I popped too soon.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 18:27:04


Post by: buddha


@Sazzlefrats

So one, that is a really good harlequin list and would be tough for anyone to go against. Especially if well piloted by your opponent.

Second, some list thoughts. I've never used the dreadclaw so I don't know if it was a good or bad choice. You might consider dropping it. Conversely, I might make it the focus of your list and put a full sized PM squad in it and go with character support like a biolugus putrifer and blightspawn for a nasty grenade bomb.

Harlequins are beyond fast but they don't do well with speed bumps. More things like FNP spawn and/or nurglings allied in can disrupt their usual plans.

If you are going with so many PMs I would really recommend the noxious blightbringer with the daemons toll relic is a solid investment. Just a 5++ will start paying dividends against armies like harlequins.

As you note, entropy PBCs are not great unless you build the whole list around them. With spitters they are clutch against an army like harlequins as you can just throw them in their face and they surprisingly have a hard time dealing with them.



Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 21:58:12


Post by: Sazzlefrats


As I was dissecting the harlequin list this morning, I was thinking about it quite a bit. Its quite good, I can't think of anything to change, and it was so easy for my friend to play.

I want to make my deathguard list to the same level.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/24 22:23:17


Post by: blackmage


if you do some suggested changes you should perform better, in my opinion, anwyay harleys can be a thought army to face. The defiler for me have no place in your list better 3 spitters PBC, as said above nurglings are a nice way to deal with harleys they cant ignore them.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/26 21:01:51


Post by: blackmage


hello mortarion's followers, did someone had recent experience facing machanized lists? Seems like 9th will be the veichles/heavy infantry edition, i was pondering what we can really use to counter those lists, marines use veichles, same for Ig and mechanicus. If i play nurglings im fine with table control but i cant really touch all those veichles and entropy pbc aren't enough, i was thinking about 3 double laser contemptors.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/27 01:29:35


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Fight fire with fire? lol Our mechanised list would be be Rhinos with DR filled with Plague Marines and Biologus? Sounds pretty evil too.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/27 08:45:47


Post by: blackmage


i was NOT talking of ours...i was talking of what other armies play.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/27 10:00:25


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Deathguard are not very killy. If we try and make our lists more killy, usually we are sacrificing resilience as a result. Like for instance, if we put in 3 double laser comtemptors in addition to our PBCs. Or 3 missile launcher twin lascannon hellbrutes. Then those comtemptors or hellbrutes automatically become a target over the PBCs because they are shootier and they are not as tough as PBCs. So yeah... what I am saying is that you usually have to strike a balance that you are comfortable with.

Some army lists are heavily tailored towards vehicle killing. So, if you have too many vehicles, then it will be like rock meeting paper.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/27 16:22:11


Post by: Abaddon303


It is kind of tempting to go with cheap rifleman dreads knowing they'll die early and focus fire opponents anti-infantry vehicles as priority.

But really any remaining vehicles get the same treatment as anything else. Slow grind forward to overwhelm.

The way I see Death Guard is our few vehicles are there to cover our infantry's advance and help with early board presence.

Our killing comes from weight of fire and attacks. We have lots of ways to increase volume, accuracy and wounding of attacks and basic shots. Even when hitting S8 vehicles we can get axes and flails wounding on threes plus rerolls with VOTLW and BOP.

Activating first in your opponents fight phase helps us. We can bracket the vehicle in our fight phase, weather opponents shooting probably now at -2 to hit in their turn and then finish them off in their charge phase. Or they have to fall back obviously.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/28 10:52:24


Post by: lare2


Just submitted the below for a tourney a week on Saturday. Will let you know how it goes. The aim is for the PBC, MBH, MP, and DP to control the centre of the board. I'll summon in a Poxbringer to heal up the daemon engines. Aim to perform psychic ritual with the MP. While we stand we fight will mean keeping the DP and PBC alive. The third secondary will vary on the opponent. A FBD plus a unit of PM will focus on each of the wings and objectives whilst Typhus and the BLT will come down depending on the game. Let me know what you think.

Spoiler:
Plague Company: The Poxmongers
Stratagems

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

HQ [465pts]
Daemon Prince of Nurgle [200pts]: Miasma of Pestilence, Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, Malefic talon [15pts], Plaguechosen [-1CP], Smite, The Suppurating Plate, Wings [35pts]
Malignant Plaguecaster [100pts]: Plague Wind, Arch-Contaminator, Curse of the Leper, Blight Grenades, Bolt pistol, Corrupted staff, Ironclot Furnace, Krak grenades, Smite, Warlord
Typhus [165pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Putrescent Vitality, Blight Grenades, Harbinger of Nurgle [-1CP], Master-crafted manreaper, Smite, The Destroyer Hive

Troops [297pts]
Plague Marines [110pts]

. Plague Champion [18pts]: Blight Grenades, Boltgun, Krak grenades, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [36pts]: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
Plague Marines [6 PL, 110pts]
. Plague Champion [18pts]: Blight Grenades, Boltgun, Krak grenades, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [36pts]: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
Poxwalkers [6 PL, 77pts]
. 11x Poxwalker [77pts]: 11x Improvised weapon

Elites [229pts]
Blightlord Terminators [229pts]

. Blightlord Champion [43pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [3pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [43pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [3pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [43pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [3pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [50pts]: Blight launcher [10pts], Bubotic Axe [5pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [50pts]: Flail of Corruption [15pts]

Fast Attack [610pts]
Foetid Bloat-drone [155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter [40pts], Plague probe
Foetid Bloat-drone [155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter [40pts], Plague probe
Myphitic Blight-haulers [300pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler [100pts]: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher [20pts], Multi-melta [25pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler [100pts]: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher [20pts], Multi-melta [25pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler [100pts]: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher [20pts], Multi-melta [25pts]

Heavy Support [320pts]
Plagueburst Crawler [160pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [30pts], Accelerated Entropy [-1CP], Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
Plagueburst Crawler [160pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [30pts], Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar

++ Total: [102 PL, 8CP, 1,922pts] ++



Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/29 11:12:56


Post by: Nora


I have a question on the CREEPING BLIGHT strat: If the weapon only makes a fix number of wound, does this strat stlil works and give it +1? The thing that makes me wonder is the wording "add 1 to any damage roll made
for that attack
". You do not roll a dice.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/29 11:19:34


Post by: Jidmah


If you are not rolling a dice, you don't get the bonus.

It's basically only relevant for deathshrouds, drones, LoC with manreadper and psyker HQs.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/29 20:31:16


Post by: Stoni42


Hi all,

so we have ways and ways to kill vehicles/heavy infantry. But what about light infantry ... say something like 30 Orks? My list currently only has the 3 missile launchers from 3 MBHs ... and this is not enough if there is just a small amount of models like this. What do you use for this?

BTW: I am not sold on neither BLTs nor PMs yet. Any other ideas ... or will I just have to accept to think about the PM grenade bomb (which seems to be a solution for everything)?

My current list is:

Nurgle Deamon Battalion
2 x Deamon Prince (Miasma, Fleshy Abundance
6 x 5 Nurglings

Deathguard Spearhead
3 x PBC w EntropyCannons
1 x 3 MBH
2 x Blighspawn (one = Warlord w Helm, Arch Contaminator)
1 x LoC (Furnace, Harbinger)

Bye,
Stoni


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/29 21:17:45


Post by: Jidmah


You pretty much answered it yourself, blightlords and grenade combo are the best options you have for clearing out hordes, followed by plague marines with flails. The next best thing is driving a spitter PBC into the unit and prevent them from charging ever again - also keep in mind that plague mortars are blasts now, so that might help a bit.

In theory, Mortarion is great against hordes, but it's not like he is ever going to get there.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/08/31 04:50:09


Post by: Crusaderobr


Standard Plague Marines with Bolters do fine against hordes, use trench fighters when they get into CC.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 10:39:02


Post by: Nora


Thanks for answer!
One more question; Is it allowed to use PLAGUE COMPANIES rules in a mached play, i.e. is these considered Specialist Detachment and therefore banned in 9th?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 10:41:39


Post by: Jidmah


Specialst Detachments are the ones bought for CP and found in the Vigilus Books. For now, PA things are safe.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 11:49:03


Post by: Dedwoods42


There's a rumour floating around that has been repeated by a few different sources that is quite interesting: that DR as a core part of our army is being switched from the 5+++ to a blanket -1 to wound in our Codex.

Obviously this is only an unsubstantiated rumour at this point - but theoretically how would we feel about it?

I'm unsure currently how it'd impact us as so many things (Surgeons, RR, Contaminated Monstrosity etcetera) would need to be re-written. It'd likely be strong against some armies, but the big bads like Marines currently have myriad ways to stack bonuses to wounding and would largely not worry about it.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 11:58:07


Post by: buddha


A FNP save has literally been the DGs 'thing' since 3rd edition. Would be a very wierd change.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 12:41:05


Post by: lare2


I'd heard this as well. Saw someone do the Math as well and apparently a -1 to wound is generally better than 5+++. Personally I'm not a fan however. Thematically, I love how it works now - we take the wound but we just don't care and continue walking forward with a gaping hole in the chest.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 17:26:16


Post by: blackmage


 Dedwoods42 wrote:
There's a rumour floating around that has been repeated by a few different sources that is quite interesting: that DR as a core part of our army is being switched from the 5+++ to a blanket -1 to wound in our Codex.

Obviously this is only an unsubstantiated rumour at this point - but theoretically how would we feel about it?

I'm unsure currently how it'd impact us as so many things (Surgeons, RR, Contaminated Monstrosity etcetera) would need to be re-written. It'd likely be strong against some armies, but the big bads like Marines currently have myriad ways to stack bonuses to wounding and would largely not worry about it.

that will kill anything good they did with war of the spider...if we lost fnp is a problem, -1 to wound is not the same at all, just a bonus to wound and high ap weapons delete things like PM then. I dont see the 9th edition a great edition anyway, you will see when the 1st few codex will be released, it has same identical issues we seen end of 8th ed.
Remember 1 thing...FNP works on mortal wounds, -1 to wound NO, is a big difference too.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 17:59:44


Post by: Sazzlefrats


 lare2 wrote:
I'd heard this as well. Saw someone do the Math as well and apparently a -1 to wound is generally better than 5+++. Personally I'm not a fan however. Thematically, I love how it works now - we take the wound but we just don't care and continue walking forward with a gaping hole in the chest.



So we can be harlequins... -1 to wound and take a noxious blightbringer with the relic and have a 5+ invuln.... slow harlequins with worse save.

I'm still not sure how to beat up harlequins with death guard. Right now I want to take something that can run up... vox scream to shut down that -1 to wound, and then get on with playing the game.

Here's my new thought...

10 night lords warp talons auxiliary detachment
20 emperors children noise marines auxiliary detachment
Death guard for the rest because that's what I want to field.

turn 2...the warp talons and the noise marines come onto the field... VOX Scream shuts down something, noise marines kill two units of something else, both charge and warp talons kill something and lock something else up the next turn.

I don't have a better deathguard solution for harlequins so...

Maybe mortarian, plus a bunch of dreadclaws, spam thermal jets and blow up my own vehicles for mortal wounds,


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 19:58:39


Post by: astro_nomicon


Was hoping I could get all you competitive Death Guard/Chaos/Daemons fans opinion on this list. Inspiration came from an off beat Death Guard/Daemons list that I'm tweaking to work with what I can pull off with my collection. I'm hoping it can work by virtue of putting a ton of DR wounds on mid board objectives from the gate with enough punch to remove a few key threats relatively quickly. I know its not going to be bleeding edge competitive compared to Daemon Engine spam, but I'd like your opinion on the concept and any tweaks you'd suggest beyond "buy 3 PBCs". I know Ahriman is a bit shoe horned into the list, but I really wanted a worthwhile warp timer so I can deploy the unit of Blightlords first turn if I want to.

Thanks for the look.


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [70 PL, -1CP, 1,329pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP

Plague Company: Mortarion's Anvil

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 195pts]: 1. Revoltingly Resilient, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Hellforged sword, The Epidemicyst Blade, Warlord, Wings

Sorcerer [5 PL, 90pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, Bolt pistol, Force sword

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 180pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 9x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 9x Blight Grenades, 9x Boltgun, 9x Krak Grenades, 9x Plague knife

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Poxwalker: 10x Improvised weapon

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Poxwalker: 10x Improvised weapon

+ Elites +

Biologus Putrifier [4 PL, 65pts]

Blightlord Terminators [22 PL, 444pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: 6. Arch-Contaminator, Plaguechosen

+ Dedicated Transport +

Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 130pts]
. Heavy Flamers

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, -2CP, 520pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Poxbringer [4 PL, 75pts]: Virulent Blessing

+ Troops +

Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth

+ Elites +

Beasts of Nurgle [10 PL, 175pts]
. 5x Beast of Nurgle: 5x Putrid appendages

++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [8 PL, 10CP, 150pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cults of the Legion: *No Cult*

Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Ahriman [8 PL, 150pts]: Death Hex, Prescience, Warptime

++ Total: [104 PL, 7CP, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/01 22:28:29


Post by: blackmage


if i can suggest you...swap the beast with chaos spawns with FNP, the list could work ok


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/02 03:03:14


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 astro_nomicon wrote:
Was hoping I could get all you competitive Death Guard/Chaos/Daemons fans opinion on this list. Inspiration came from an off beat Death Guard/Daemons list that I'm tweaking to work with what I can pull off with my collection. I'm hoping it can work by virtue of putting a ton of DR wounds on mid board objectives from the gate with enough punch to remove a few key threats relatively quickly. I know its not going to be bleeding edge competitive compared to Daemon Engine spam, but I'd like your opinion on the concept and any tweaks you'd suggest beyond "buy 3 PBCs". I know Ahriman is a bit shoe horned into the list, but I really wanted a worthwhile warp timer so I can deploy the unit of Blightlords first turn if I want to.

Thanks for the look.

Created with BattleScribe


Are you going to start the Blightlords on the table and march them up? It looks like a very interesting list. But your main source of threats seem to be the Blightlords and the plague marines in the Drill. The rest are basically just to soak up wounds and choke up the midboard objectives. I don't know if you might have an issue with a heavy vehicle list. I suppose you could go for the objectives and just outlast them.

Given the amount of stuff you have clogging up the midfield, I think marching the blightlords up the field while under cloud of flies strategem is a fair consideration. You also have warp time to help them move further too. Give it a try. Considering a lot of people are loading up on anti tank guns these days, this might be an anti-meta kind of list.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/02 05:10:30


Post by: astro_nomicon


blackmage wrote:if i can suggest you...swap the beast with chaos spawns with FNP, the list could work ok


I thought about that, but the synergy between the obligatory Poxwalker for the detachment and the Beasts is actually kind of enticing. The beasts get +1S and 1 extra damage on 6s to wound whilst within 6" of the Poxbringer. If Virulent Blessing goes off then they get +1 to wound and double damage on 7+, resulting in 3 damage on 5s to wound and 5 damage on 6s to wound. Also, while the Beasts costs slightly more points per wound, they don't cost a CP for the DR bump and have a built in 5++, and have a stratagem to deal MW in addition on 6s to wound (5s w/ Virulent Blessing). Basically at this point I think the Beasts are just as good or better as Spawn with Contaminated Monstrosity as long as you're already taking the Daemons detachment which i definitely am.

Honestly when I set out to make the list I very much wanted to include a unit of Contaminated Monstrosity Spawn in addition to the Beasts but points just didn't allow. I suppose I could cut 3 Blightlords and shave a few points somewhere else to include a unit of 5 Spawn, but I really want 2 plague flails in the big termie unit and want to leverage as much as I can get out of them with stratagems.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 astro_nomicon wrote:
Was hoping I could get all you competitive Death Guard/Chaos/Daemons fans opinion on this list. Inspiration came from an off beat Death Guard/Daemons list that I'm tweaking to work with what I can pull off with my collection. I'm hoping it can work by virtue of putting a ton of DR wounds on mid board objectives from the gate with enough punch to remove a few key threats relatively quickly. I know its not going to be bleeding edge competitive compared to Daemon Engine spam, but I'd like your opinion on the concept and any tweaks you'd suggest beyond "buy 3 PBCs". I know Ahriman is a bit shoe horned into the list, but I really wanted a worthwhile warp timer so I can deploy the unit of Blightlords first turn if I want to.

Thanks for the look.

Created with BattleScribe


Are you going to start the Blightlords on the table and march them up? It looks like a very interesting list. But your main source of threats seem to be the Blightlords and the plague marines in the Drill. The rest are basically just to soak up wounds and choke up the midboard objectives. I don't know if you might have an issue with a heavy vehicle list. I suppose you could go for the objectives and just outlast them.

Given the amount of stuff you have clogging up the midfield, I think marching the blightlords up the field while under cloud of flies strategem is a fair consideration. You also have warp time to help them move further too. Give it a try. Considering a lot of people are loading up on anti tank guns these days, this might be an anti-meta kind of list.



So yes, the reason I squeeeeezed Ahriman into this list was to be able to start the Blightlords on the table more often than not. I thought about putting them and the Blight Grenade bomb both in reserve but it just seems like too much off of the table Turn 1 in too many games. Hence, Ahriman for a more reliable Warptime, Prescience, and cheeky Death Hex here and there.

And also yes, the Blightlords would most likely receive Cloud of Flies on turn 1, maybe further depending on matchup, while they are hustled up to mid field. I'm not totally a fan of the fact that by far the best damage output in this list is condensed into the Drill and the Terms as you said, but maybe there's enough sneaky/opportunistic damage dealing units between the Beasts, the DP, Ahriman, and the Blightspawn? I'm not sure yet, but hopefully.

Thanks for checking it out





Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/02 12:59:17


Post by: blackmage


 astro_nomicon wrote:
blackmage wrote:if i can suggest you...swap the beast with chaos spawns with FNP, the list could work ok


I thought about that, but the synergy between the obligatory Poxwalker for the detachment and the Beasts is actually kind of enticing. The beasts get +1S and 1 extra damage on 6s to wound whilst within 6" of the Poxbringer. If Virulent Blessing goes off then they get +1 to wound and double damage on 7+, resulting in 3 damage on 5s to wound and 5 damage on 6s to wound. Also, while the Beasts costs slightly more points per wound, they don't cost a CP for the DR bump and have a built in 5++, and have a stratagem to deal MW in addition on 6s to wound (5s w/ Virulent Blessing). Basically at this point I think the Beasts are just as good or better as Spawn with Contaminated Monstrosity as long as you're already taking the Daemons detachment which i definitely am.

Honestly when I set out to make the list I very much wanted to include a unit of Contaminated Monstrosity Spawn in addition to the Beasts but points just didn't allow. I suppose I could cut 3 Blightlords and shave a few points somewhere else to include a unit of 5 Spawn, but I really want 2 plague flails in the big termie unit and want to leverage as much as I can get out of them with stratagems.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 astro_nomicon wrote:
Was hoping I could get all you competitive Death Guard/Chaos/Daemons fans opinion on this list. Inspiration came from an off beat Death Guard/Daemons list that I'm tweaking to work with what I can pull off with my collection. I'm hoping it can work by virtue of putting a ton of DR wounds on mid board objectives from the gate with enough punch to remove a few key threats relatively quickly. I know its not going to be bleeding edge competitive compared to Daemon Engine spam, but I'd like your opinion on the concept and any tweaks you'd suggest beyond "buy 3 PBCs". I know Ahriman is a bit shoe horned into the list, but I really wanted a worthwhile warp timer so I can deploy the unit of Blightlords first turn if I want to.

Thanks for the look.

Created with BattleScribe


Are you going to start the Blightlords on the table and march them up? It looks like a very interesting list. But your main source of threats seem to be the Blightlords and the plague marines in the Drill. The rest are basically just to soak up wounds and choke up the midboard objectives. I don't know if you might have an issue with a heavy vehicle list. I suppose you could go for the objectives and just outlast them.

Given the amount of stuff you have clogging up the midfield, I think marching the blightlords up the field while under cloud of flies strategem is a fair consideration. You also have warp time to help them move further too. Give it a try. Considering a lot of people are loading up on anti tank guns these days, this might be an anti-meta kind of list.



So yes, the reason I squeeeeezed Ahriman into this list was to be able to start the Blightlords on the table more often than not. I thought about putting them and the Blight Grenade bomb both in reserve but it just seems like too much off of the table Turn 1 in too many games. Hence, Ahriman for a more reliable Warptime, Prescience, and cheeky Death Hex here and there.

And also yes, the Blightlords would most likely receive Cloud of Flies on turn 1, maybe further depending on matchup, while they are hustled up to mid field. I'm not totally a fan of the fact that by far the best damage output in this list is condensed into the Drill and the Terms as you said, but maybe there's enough sneaky/opportunistic damage dealing units between the Beasts, the DP, Ahriman, and the Blightspawn? I'm not sure yet, but hopefully.

Thanks for checking it out




they are not.. you can warptime the spawn they hit harder they dont need stratagems/psychic power at 7+ to deliver extra damage, beast have basic ap0 and 1 damage only, if you relay then on fragile combos (a psy power that gets off at 7+) then is up to you, i m not going to discuss that. As i said above the list should perform fine


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/02 18:32:37


Post by: astro_nomicon


 blackmage wrote:
 astro_nomicon wrote:
blackmage wrote:if i can suggest you...swap the beast with chaos spawns with FNP, the list could work ok


I thought about that, but the synergy between the obligatory Poxwalker for the detachment and the Beasts is actually kind of enticing. The beasts get +1S and 1 extra damage on 6s to wound whilst within 6" of the Poxbringer. If Virulent Blessing goes off then they get +1 to wound and double damage on 7+, resulting in 3 damage on 5s to wound and 5 damage on 6s to wound. Also, while the Beasts costs slightly more points per wound, they don't cost a CP for the DR bump and have a built in 5++, and have a stratagem to deal MW in addition on 6s to wound (5s w/ Virulent Blessing). Basically at this point I think the Beasts are just as good or better as Spawn with Contaminated Monstrosity as long as you're already taking the Daemons detachment which i definitely am.

Honestly when I set out to make the list I very much wanted to include a unit of Contaminated Monstrosity Spawn in addition to the Beasts but points just didn't allow. I suppose I could cut 3 Blightlords and shave a few points somewhere else to include a unit of 5 Spawn, but I really want 2 plague flails in the big termie unit and want to leverage as much as I can get out of them with stratagems.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 astro_nomicon wrote:
Was hoping I could get all you competitive Death Guard/Chaos/Daemons fans opinion on this list. Inspiration came from an off beat Death Guard/Daemons list that I'm tweaking to work with what I can pull off with my collection. I'm hoping it can work by virtue of putting a ton of DR wounds on mid board objectives from the gate with enough punch to remove a few key threats relatively quickly. I know its not going to be bleeding edge competitive compared to Daemon Engine spam, but I'd like your opinion on the concept and any tweaks you'd suggest beyond "buy 3 PBCs". I know Ahriman is a bit shoe horned into the list, but I really wanted a worthwhile warp timer so I can deploy the unit of Blightlords first turn if I want to.

Thanks for the look.

Created with BattleScribe


Are you going to start the Blightlords on the table and march them up? It looks like a very interesting list. But your main source of threats seem to be the Blightlords and the plague marines in the Drill. The rest are basically just to soak up wounds and choke up the midboard objectives. I don't know if you might have an issue with a heavy vehicle list. I suppose you could go for the objectives and just outlast them.

Given the amount of stuff you have clogging up the midfield, I think marching the blightlords up the field while under cloud of flies strategem is a fair consideration. You also have warp time to help them move further too. Give it a try. Considering a lot of people are loading up on anti tank guns these days, this might be an anti-meta kind of list.



So yes, the reason I squeeeeezed Ahriman into this list was to be able to start the Blightlords on the table more often than not. I thought about putting them and the Blight Grenade bomb both in reserve but it just seems like too much off of the table Turn 1 in too many games. Hence, Ahriman for a more reliable Warptime, Prescience, and cheeky Death Hex here and there.

And also yes, the Blightlords would most likely receive Cloud of Flies on turn 1, maybe further depending on matchup, while they are hustled up to mid field. I'm not totally a fan of the fact that by far the best damage output in this list is condensed into the Drill and the Terms as you said, but maybe there's enough sneaky/opportunistic damage dealing units between the Beasts, the DP, Ahriman, and the Blightspawn? I'm not sure yet, but hopefully.

Thanks for checking it out




they are not.. you can warptime the spawn they hit harder they dont need stratagems/psychic power at 7+ to deliver extra damage, beast have basic ap0 and 1 damage only, if you relay then on fragile combos (a psy power that gets off at 7+) then is up to you, i m not going to discuss that. As i said above the list should perform fine


Alright upon second thought I think you are right about the spawn. I forgot they are native AP-2, and the D3 result for the extras is pretty much gravy on top of that. Beasts do actually have D2 in melee and have built in reroll wounds as far as I can tell (and are also a little more durable thanks to a 5++), but I think you are right that Contaminated Monstrosity Spawn out perform them on paper.

Considering all that, something nastier came to mind. Take the list above, drop the Beasts and instead of 3x5 Nurglings it will be 5x, 4x, and 3x Nurglings. Add 2x5 Spawn with Contaminated Monstrosity. Drops the list down to 5 CP to start with, just enough for Cloud of Flies on the Blightlords T1 and the strats for the Blight Grenade Bomb, but enough maybe?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 01:14:31


Post by: blackmage


yes you have enough cp, i never played DG in 9th ed with more than 6cp.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 01:35:08


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I am kind of more worried that now when deathguard marines do get 2W, they will dial up the points cost so much it would be a net nerf in the end. Everyone is screaming that plague marines with 2W are going to be OP. And we know GW tends to overshoot on both sides.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 11:15:10


Post by: blackmage


Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am kind of more worried that now when deathguard marines do get 2W, they will dial up the points cost so much it would be a net nerf in the end. Everyone is screaming that plague marines with 2W are going to be OP. And we know GW tends to overshoot on both sides.

of course, you are right, anything will depend by how much they will cost, anyway if, as it seems, the point increase will be about 20% (21-22pts) we can still play them. What make me more worried is the rumor about FNP, seems they want change it with a -1 to wound, in that case DG will take a big nerf, -1 to wound is nothing comparable with a 5+++ FNP.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 11:18:08


Post by: Jidmah


Do you have any math to back that up?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 12:06:46


Post by: Dedwoods42


Having done the math, -1 to wound is better in the vast majority of situations - but only marginally, and in context it rarely changes any breakpoints for rounding averages etcetera.

FNP is typically better against multi damage weapons when the target has multiple wounds. It is about on par for 2 wound PMs - but becomes better for 3 wound Terminators.

Interestingly, when the unit making the attack has +1 to wound - the math shakes out exactly the same for -1 to wound and 5+++.

Context is obviously important and mathhammer will only take you so far - but in the majority of situations -1 to wound makes us slightly more resilient.

I also ran the numbers for having both, in case the rumour is incomplete and the -1 is our new Legion Trait or something (obviously I very much doubt it, but I thought it'd be interesting) and we'd be looking at absolutely insane levels of resilience against the typical weapons people shoot at PMs - Bolt Rifles, medium S -2AP 2D stuff with a couple of shots each, and the higher volume AT weapons.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 12:11:20


Post by: Jidmah


If it's at least in the same ballpark, I'll take less dice rolls over multi-wound shenanigans any day


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 12:19:40


Post by: blackmage


no....
1st- it doesn't stop mortal wound
2nd- there are many ways to deny it, many armies have access to +1 to wound or weapons that wound at fixed value regardless modifiers
-1 to wound mean our PM will have just an armor save and if they fail boom they die...and a 22 pts model like that become unplayable.
-1 to wound instead FNP have 0 sense.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 12:30:17


Post by: Dedwoods42


 blackmage wrote:
no....
1st- it doesn't stop mortal wound
2nd- there are many ways to deny it, many armies have access to +1 to wound or weapons that wound at fixed value regardless modifiers
-1 to wound mean our PM will have just an armor save and if they fail boom they die...and a 22 pts model like that become unplayable.
-1 to wound instead FNP have 0 sense.


You're right about mortal wounds, that's for sure.

The maths for enemies with +1 to wound is *identical* between -1 to wound and 5+++. Zero difference.

The fixed values is also an issue, but a rare one.

Yeah - they'll have armour saves and die but they'll also take significantly less wounds from regular weapons which is pretty huge.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 12:37:07


Post by: blackmage


 Dedwoods42 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
no....
1st- it doesn't stop mortal wound
2nd- there are many ways to deny it, many armies have access to +1 to wound or weapons that wound at fixed value regardless modifiers
-1 to wound mean our PM will have just an armor save and if they fail boom they die...and a 22 pts model like that become unplayable.
-1 to wound instead FNP have 0 sense.


You're right about mortal wounds, that's for sure.

The maths for enemies with +1 to wound is *identical* between -1 to wound and 5+++. Zero difference.

The fixed values is also an issue, but a rare one.

Yeah - they'll have armour saves and die but they'll also take significantly less wounds from regular weapons which is pretty huge.

hope will not happen but if will do you will see how DG will disappear from top tables.
I dont know how can you compare a -1 to wound to FNP, you have to see what armies play and how, do straight math mean nothing, play against GK with your -1 to wound and no FNP then let me know, play against DE with their poisoned weapons (thata sure will keep wound you at 4+) and no FNP, i can go on with harleys and more...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 13:49:26


Post by: Dedwoods42


 blackmage wrote:
 Dedwoods42 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
no....
1st- it doesn't stop mortal wound
2nd- there are many ways to deny it, many armies have access to +1 to wound or weapons that wound at fixed value regardless modifiers
-1 to wound mean our PM will have just an armor save and if they fail boom they die...and a 22 pts model like that become unplayable.
-1 to wound instead FNP have 0 sense.


You're right about mortal wounds, that's for sure.

The maths for enemies with +1 to wound is *identical* between -1 to wound and 5+++. Zero difference.

The fixed values is also an issue, but a rare one.

Yeah - they'll have armour saves and die but they'll also take significantly less wounds from regular weapons which is pretty huge.

hope will not happen but if will do you will see how DG will disappear from top tables.
I dont know how can you compare a -1 to wound to FNP, you have to see what armies play and how, do straight math mean nothing, play against GK with your -1 to wound and no FNP then let me know, play against DE with their poisoned weapons (thata sure will keep wound you at 4+) and no FNP, i can go on with harleys and more...


If you read my original comment I put emphasis on the importance of context, yes. Some of our matchups would change, yes.
The most common result would *still* be a slight increase in resilience.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 13:51:29


Post by: Azuza001


I dont see why... everyone took plasma in case of loyalist marines before. They will do the same thing now doubly so in case chaos or loyalist marines.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 16:10:27


Post by: Sazzlefrats


I rewrote my list, based on the suggestions I got here, and my own thinking. Its got a significant amount of anti-harlequin respect built in.

Demon Prince on foot (Supportating Plate + Rotten Constituion)(Miasma of Pestilence)
Sorcerer - Blades of Putrification & Putricent Vitality
10 Poxwalkers
10 Poxwalkers
10 Poxwalkers
4 Nurglings
4 Nurglings
1 Foul Blightspawn
1 Foul Blightspawn
Plagueburst Crawler w/ Plague Spitters
Plagueburst Crawler w/ Plague Spitters
Plagueburst Crawler w/ Plague Spitters
5 Chaos Spawn w/ Mutated Monstrosity

And then!!!
Emporer's Children Patrol
Sorcerer (Warp Time + Delightful Agonies FNP for noise marines))
Dark Apostle (Benediction of Darkness -1 to be hit for noise marines)
Dark Disciples
20 Noise Marines w. Sonic Blasters

The idea is... I start the marines on the board with -1 to be hit, combat drugs for t5, and in cover for a 2+ save. (maybe I lose 5 guys if I don't go first and am targetable... each round thereafter... I got 5np... so they are plaguemarines with pink armor ::-)


I'm kinda rethinking plagueburst crawlers... expensive for their damage output? Might want to put in MBH


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/03 23:40:22


Post by: blackmage


you dont use PBC for damage output, you use them because they are durable and a pain in the ass to shift, they provide character protection they can get into objective and stay, now durability pays back.
Im not sold with your troops (too fragile for harleys) and i prefer AL noise marines, you can protect them with stratagem, nothing is better than that to make them survive.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 01:39:43


Post by: Eldenfirefly


FNP is good because even if the Str of the weapon is vastly higher than the Toughness of the model, you will still get a 5+ Save. A bunch of nurglings, poxwalkers. a -1 to wound does nothing for them. But they are good because they still get the 5+ FNP even if they are wounded.

Once you turn FNP into a -1 to wound , you essentially remove the resilience of such low toughness units.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 07:14:45


Post by: Jidmah


Eldenfirefly wrote:
FNP is good because even if the Str of the weapon is vastly higher than the Toughness of the model, you will still get a 5+ Save. A bunch of nurglings, poxwalkers. a -1 to wound does nothing for them. But they are good because they still get the 5+ FNP even if they are wounded.

Once you turn FNP into a -1 to wound , you essentially remove the resilience of such low toughness units.


People, you need to do math to compare these two rules, or at least point to someone who did the math. Claiming one rule is better than the other without proof is completely worthless...

A dakkajet (S6, AP-1, 1 damage)wounds pox walkers on a 2+ and has 18 shots, hits 9, wounds 7.5, 5 dead poxwalkers after DR
With -1 to wound, it hits 9, wounds 6. One more dead pox walker.

Let's say you shoot pox walkers with a bunch of loota (S7, AP-1, 2 damage), the have 30 shots an average of 15 hits, wound 12.5 and have 11.11 dead pox walkers after DR
With -1 to wound, they wound and kill 10 instead. One less dead pox walker

Let's do the same for plague marines:
Dakkajet hits 9, wounds 6, 3 unsaved, 1 damage goes past DR
With -1 to wound, it's hit 9, wound 4.5, 2.25 unsaved damage. One additional casualty.

Lootas hit 15, wound 10, 5 unsaved, 3.33 damage goes past DR, potentially losing 1 damage to overkill when they go to 2 wounds.
With -1 to wound, it hit 15, wound 7.5, 3.75 unsaved. At minimum a higher chance to lose two marines.

So -1 to wound indeed seems to be worse than DR, but not massively so. Combined with losing the ability to ignore mortal wound it does seem like quite a nerf.
I'm still hoping for both keeping DR on datasheets and -1 to wound as a legion trait. That would be rad.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 07:21:50


Post by: lare2


That would be nuts - army wide cloud of flies


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 15:03:30


Post by: Dedwoods42


Do the maths against something very common - Intercessors. No matter the volume of buffs, -1 to wound is *at worst* exactly the same level of survivability against auto bolt rifle fire - in instances where they have +1 to wound. The rest of the time there's a slight increase in survivability.

Like I said before - context is key and it very, very rarely moves any *real* numbers as it doesn't often change the averages after rounding - but don't write it off immediately without understanding what it actually means.

Yeah, having both would obviously be ideal!


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 15:05:41


Post by: Sazzlefrats


 blackmage wrote:
you dont use PBC for damage output, you use them because they are durable and a pain in the ass to shift, they provide character protection they can get into objective and stay, now durability pays back.
Im not sold with your troops (too fragile for harleys) and i prefer AL noise marines, you can protect them with stratagem, nothing is better than that to make them survive.



No real reason to take noise marines over plague marines if I lose the empowers children stratagem with the 2d per sonic blaster


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 19:39:21


Post by: blackmage


People, you need to do math to compare these two rules, or at least point to someone who did the math. Claiming one rule is better than the other without proof is completely worthless...

no you need to play serious games and forget the math




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
you dont use PBC for damage output, you use them because they are durable and a pain in the ass to shift, they provide character protection they can get into objective and stay, now durability pays back.
Im not sold with your troops (too fragile for harleys) and i prefer AL noise marines, you can protect them with stratagem, nothing is better than that to make them survive.



No real reason to take noise marines over plague marines if I lose the empowers children stratagem with the 2d per sonic blaster

depend what you think to face, 20 noise=120 shots enough to threat a large number of targets anyway.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/04 20:45:20


Post by: Dedwoods42


 blackmage wrote:
People, you need to do math to compare these two rules, or at least point to someone who did the math. Claiming one rule is better than the other without proof is completely worthless...

no you need to play serious games and forget the math




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
you dont use PBC for damage output, you use them because they are durable and a pain in the ass to shift, they provide character protection they can get into objective and stay, now durability pays back.
Im not sold with your troops (too fragile for harleys) and i prefer AL noise marines, you can protect them with stratagem, nothing is better than that to make them survive.



No real reason to take noise marines over plague marines if I lose the empowers children stratagem with the 2d per sonic blaster

depend what you think to face, 20 noise=120 shots enough to threat a large number of targets anyway.


I have played games and they've supported my assertions, which are predominantly agreeing with you. Absolutely no value in being combative and shooting down every opinion that isn't your own.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 07:40:57


Post by: Jidmah


 blackmage wrote:
People, you need to do math to compare these two rules, or at least point to someone who did the math. Claiming one rule is better than the other without proof is completely worthless...

no you need to play serious games and forget the math


So, considering how you definitely have played 0 serious games with -1 to wound instead of DR, your opinion is worthless, correct?

There is no need to be an ass.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 14:58:02


Post by: blackmage


you dont have to agree with me at all of course but what im saying is...try to play the game now, swap DR for -1 to wound and face the most dominant lists out there played by a good player and see...this is what i meant, no one must agree with me, is not what im intersted for, im interested in played wh40k only, hope i have clarified it, cheers.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 17:25:21


Post by: Brymm


It’s strange because I’ve blocked Blackmage over a year ago and reading one sided arguments against him is bizarre but enlightening: we have an extremely negative voice driving a majority of the conversation in this thread. I do believe it hurts the growth of this thread significantly.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 18:03:13


Post by: Jidmah


I agree. Basically everyone who dares think outside the box gets hit with a negative post from him and few are stubborn enough to keep posting despite that.
No wonder that there is basically no DG community here on dakka even though many people are posting pictures of painting them.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 18:53:14


Post by: Sherrypie


 Jidmah wrote:
I agree. Basically everyone who dares think outside the box gets hit with a negative post from him and few are stubborn enough to keep posting despite that.
No wonder that there is basically no DG community here on dakka even though many people are posting pictures of painting them.


Community building would perhaps benefit from more varied content being posted, like proper battle reports, their analysis and interesting findings being discussed (in addition to getting positive feedback in general). 40k does suffer a bit from the view that it's more about numbers than tactics, which dulls the discussion down to math instead of interesting war stories that many people are rather fond of. As Death Guard is a minor faction, even a rather nice one, this is then excerbated as there aren't too many avenues of approaching the optimal number crunch, leaving lots of interesting choices and styles for narrative games (which in turn aren't of that much use for the number crunching crowd, even if their after action analyses would actually be probably the most interesting ones from the tactical point of view).


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 19:20:37


Post by: Jidmah


I don't know about that, I do fairly successful with large parts of the codex in a semi-competitive environment. However, unlike in the ork thread, I don't feel like talking about that here, because you get verbally run over by a truck for suggesting anything that is not fit to win the LVO.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 19:33:57


Post by: Sherrypie


 Jidmah wrote:
I don't know about that, I do fairly successful with large parts of the codex in a semi-competitive environment. However, unlike in the ork thread, I don't feel like talking about that here, because you get verbally run over by a truck for suggesting anything that is not fit to win the LVO.


I find that mental image amusing given your avatar is a big old wagon

To the actual point, that sounds like a healthy state of things. Personally I find it somewhat frustrating to follow threads like these at various places when they are only locked to that "winning the LVO" mindset, when there's lots of gaming to be had that won't adhere to the same style. Say, playing a basic tournament mission pack where you want to take and hold ground while being able to quickly answer various threats (and variations of that setup) is inherently going to skew the ranking of our units way differently than say, a proper attacker / defender scenario with search and destroy targets. Running after objective markers makes Deathshroud useless (or so the online wisdom goes etc.) while the same boys in an urban assault are absolutely bonkers ripping into any old bunker or strongpoint they are supposed to burn into the ground.

Plenty of other similar frustrations abound, like various Dreadnought armament discussion that always devolved into double Butcher cannon fests regardless of other considerations. Not necessarily on this board, but still.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 19:47:06


Post by: blackmage


ok my way of post here now will be... I will NOT anymore enter into a "fight" about what is competitive or not and how have to be played,is obviously not worth, or better if ppls prefer i refrain to post anything "serious" about competitive, then if someone want start a new thread for me is ok anyway. Regards to all..


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/05 21:49:42


Post by: lare2


 lare2 wrote:
Just submitted the below for a tourney a week on Saturday. Will let you know how it goes. The aim is for the PBC, MBH, MP, and DP to control the centre of the board. I'll summon in a Poxbringer to heal up the daemon engines. Aim to perform psychic ritual with the MP. While we stand we fight will mean keeping the DP and PBC alive. The third secondary will vary on the opponent. A FBD plus a unit of PM will focus on each of the wings and objectives whilst Typhus and the BLT will come down depending on the game. Let me know what you think.

Spoiler:
Plague Company: The Poxmongers
Stratagems

Gifts of Decay (1 Relic) [-1CP]

HQ [465pts]
Daemon Prince of Nurgle [200pts]: Miasma of Pestilence, Revoltingly Resilient, Malefic talon, Malefic talon [15pts], Plaguechosen [-1CP], Smite, The Suppurating Plate, Wings [35pts]
Malignant Plaguecaster [100pts]: Plague Wind, Arch-Contaminator, Curse of the Leper, Blight Grenades, Bolt pistol, Corrupted staff, Ironclot Furnace, Krak grenades, Smite, Warlord
Typhus [165pts]: Blades of Putrefaction, Putrescent Vitality, Blight Grenades, Harbinger of Nurgle [-1CP], Master-crafted manreaper, Smite, The Destroyer Hive

Troops [297pts]
Plague Marines [110pts]

. Plague Champion [18pts]: Blight Grenades, Boltgun, Krak grenades, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [36pts]: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
Plague Marines [6 PL, 110pts]
. Plague Champion [18pts]: Blight Grenades, Boltgun, Krak grenades, Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun [36pts]: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon [28pts]: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher [10pts], Krak grenades, Plague knife
Poxwalkers [6 PL, 77pts]
. 11x Poxwalker [77pts]: 11x Improvised weapon

Elites [229pts]
Blightlord Terminators [229pts]

. Blightlord Champion [43pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [3pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [43pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [3pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [43pts]: Bubotic Axe [5pts], Combi-bolter [3pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [50pts]: Blight launcher [10pts], Bubotic Axe [5pts]
. Blightlord Terminator [50pts]: Flail of Corruption [15pts]

Fast Attack [610pts]
Foetid Bloat-drone [155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter [40pts], Plague probe
Foetid Bloat-drone [155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter [40pts], Plague probe
Myphitic Blight-haulers [300pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler [100pts]: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher [20pts], Multi-melta [25pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler [100pts]: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher [20pts], Multi-melta [25pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler [100pts]: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher [20pts], Multi-melta [25pts]

Heavy Support [320pts]
Plagueburst Crawler [160pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [30pts], Accelerated Entropy [-1CP], Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
Plagueburst Crawler [160pts]: 2x Entropy cannon [30pts], Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar

++ Total: [102 PL, 8CP, 1,922pts] ++



Well, I managed to win 1 out of 3 which, for me, ain't a bad result - ha ha!

First game was against a lot of orc buggies. They were pretty speedy and they swarmed the board early on. The mission was overrun and that's pretty much what happened. I managed to pretty much table him turn 4 but by then he had a lead i just couldn't catch. I ran while we stand we fight, psychic ritual, and bring it down. Lost by 20pts in the end so managed to claw it back a bit towards the end.

Second game.... can't even remember the mission as it didn't really matter. It was against Iron Hands and they pretty much tabled me first turn. Lost the role (never won it all day) and they went first. It's unreal how powerful going first can be. Didn't deploy very well as grossly underestimated how powerful they are. Then spent 3 turns hiding PM to score some primary. Game ended 100pts to 30 odd.

Third game got the win against Guard, 85pts to 80. Loved it. Played Retrieval Mission and it was easily the best game of the day and not just cause I won! Although that did help Ran while we stand we fight, psychic ritual and deploy scramblers. This was the only game I got the ritual off and even then it was turn 5. First time running scramblers and loved it. Never realised beforehand that it happens the end of your turn so there's little the opponent can do to stop it. BLT ensured it went off in opponent's deployment zone, strategic pox did no man's land.

Lessons from the day, I'm starting to dislike while we stand we fight. There's still too much firepower out there and we're really not as resilient as people make out. I'm starting to turn off FBDs... i do love them though so this is a painful realisation for me. Poxbringer does the hide and heal job well but D3 healing really isn't much when you're getting pounded. Iron Hands are just stupid good. Finally, I'm still not very good at this game


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 03:53:15


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Yeah.. I am starting to think a secondary like while we stand we fight is only good on characters if your characters can be selected for it. No mater how resilient a PBC is, if your opponent pours enough shots into it, it will still go down. Unless you know your opponent has no out of line of sight shooting and you hide them behind obscuring terrain all game, which is an option, but then you lose a lot of their other shooting since you would only be able to shoot with their mortars.

I am actually having a bit of trouble picking secondaries. Because deathguard is not very killy, nor that fast. They play the primary mission well, but are not necessarily the best on secondary missions.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 06:55:17


Post by: ErikWennberg


 blackmage wrote:
ok my way of post here now will be... I will NOT anymore enter into a "fight" about what is competitive or not and how have to be played,is obviously not worth, or better if ppls prefer i refrain to post anything "serious" about competitive, then if someone want start a new thread for me is ok anyway. Regards to all..


As a long time lurker and complete noob I say that I agree with the others but I still love most of your posts Blackmage. Its so easy to get tricked by reading other peoples opinion. My first try at Warhammer was with Tyranids several years ago. I loved Raveners and Trygons and their was a list on the internet that even had a Youtube video explaining it in detail, it was really good according to what I read. I was so happy and bought the models. I spend money and time painting. I was like a child before Christmas but then I played... The list was gak against the people I played. Sure they could modify their lists to have friendly games but it just felt wrong. The models were so cool and I loved the game play but my friends need to play with me as if I was a 4 year old, it hurt. Thanks to Black mages posts I wont do the same mistake again and if I still buy the models for the strategy Ill know what I buy. I would recommend that when you reply to people it should be in the form of a debate and not an argument.

With all that said Jidmah is also amazing and spending time to write down all the mathhammer for DR vs -1 to wound just to get a one liner as a reply must be aggravating. Hat off to you for not raging. I would have raged and argue that DR sucks because I always fail my saves so a -1 to wound would be way better for me. (crappy argument I know)

Sorry for long post but what I want to say is that you are both right but it would be a great loss for the forum if any one of you left. So please continue typing so that I may lurk and learn something during breakfast.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 07:43:11


Post by: Jidmah


Thanks for the praise.

I know the feel when people tell you to buy units which allegedly are totally awesome, but once you field them, they are complete trash. This happened to me when I started 10 years ago and was actually my reason for joining dakka back then - the communities I was frequenting before didn't give unit effectiveness a lot of thought, or were even openly hostile to any competitive thinking.

That said, units aren't just great or bad. In my opinion when someone asks whether is unit is worth taking, the right way to answer this by explaining a unit's shortcomings and strengths, and let the person decide for themselves. For example the malignant plaguecaster is definitely not an optimal unit, but if you really want to run one in a meta that is not optimized either, it's not going to cost you the game - and against aggressive enemies that want to engage, he actually has the ability to deal insane amounts of mortal wounds.
Some units are just lost cases, but since WotS I don't think we have any of those, though the jury is still out on the landraider.

There also is the issue people just wanting to make a specific unit work, in that case you should help them with that and not just tell them to field another unit.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 08:14:26


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Yup I agree too. Although I would add one thing about the LR. If its any faction that can make the LR work, I think its deathguard. Because we can give our LR a 5++ FNP. That adds a ton of resilience to it.

A landraider with contaminated monstrosity packed with dangerous stuff (like a a unit of deathshroud?) would be a very hard target to remove if it drove up and blew smoke first turn. Because it would then be a T8 model with 16W, -1 to hit, 2+ armor save and then DR on top of that.

I remember one forumer here saying he would try out a list with a LR in a small tourney. I wonder how that went...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 08:15:13


Post by: Jidmah


On the topic of secondaries, I think that While we stand is a trap. I had it in a game where the opponent had to kill Mortarion and two DP with defensive warlord traits and relics to archive it and he simply won the game by doing just that. Scoring 0 VP on a secondary is very much game-deciding, and "kill my three biggest threats" is probably something your opponent was planning for anyways. Essentially, you are giving away VP for free.

The two go-to categories (for everyone, it seems) are battlefield supremacy and shadow operations.

In battlefield supremacy, I feel like Linebreaker is the best choice, as you are unlikely to have four quarters in T1 and gaining 12 VP in 3 turns trumps getting the same amount in 4 turns.
Domination is an option if the mission has less than six objectives.

Shadow operations is rather difficult to decide. IMO Investigate sites is not great at all, because it's too easy to deny. I guess if you have Mortarion barreling down the center, there will be no one left to deny it, but the infantry unit would still have to be lucky on their advance rolls to get there.
Scramblers is the easiest one, but it also never provides more than 10VP. Raise banners seems to be the option against gunlines and armies with little mobility, for teleport homers you either need rhinos or dedicate a terminator unit to performing actions instead of doing anything else.

Then there is the question of the third objective.

Assassinate and bring them down are decent if your opponent's army has enough characters or vehicles that you are likely to kill, titan killing is also a safe bet if you ever see a titanic unit.

Thin their ranks isn't too hot as DG lack the means to kill many models unless you manage to get flails into melee, and that can easily be denied.

So if you don't have a killing secondary worth taking, it's getting difficult. Abhor the witch is usually not an option, ritual is too risky. Mental interrogation can at least gain you a few VP, but at the cost of a DP casting his power or smite. Pierce the veil could be an option if you dedicate a sorcerer with deep strike to doing only that, but that also seems like a big investment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Yup I agree too. Although I would add one thing about the LR. If its any faction that can make the LR work, I think its deathguard. Because we can give our LR a 5++ FNP. That adds a ton of resilience to it.

A landraider with contaminated monstrosity packed with dangerous stuff (like a a unit of deathshroud?) would be a very hard target to remove if it drove up and blew smoke first turn. Because it would then be a T8 model with 16W, -1 to hit, 2+ armor save and then DR on top of that.

I remember one forumer here saying he would try out a list with a LR in a small tourney. I wonder how that went...


That was me, and the game is later today. Whether the LR will be in range of the 5++ depends on the mission and terrain.
It's an onslaught 1vs2 game though, and I'm bringing tripple patrols for poxmonger/mortarions anvil/harbinger plague fleet shenanigans, so a full battle report will not be that useful to most of you. I'm still going to report on how the LR did.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 08:30:24


Post by: Eldenfirefly


That would be great thanks! Don't worry so much about the 5++. I think the DR is more important, and you have that already. A weapon attacking your LR would need to be -4 AP or better to make the 5++ have a difference. If you are able to deploy on a side of the board that has no melta guns or equivalent, that's probably good enough. I don't know if I would even shoot my LR's guns in turn 1. I rather increase its survivability turn 1 by popping smoke. And then turn 2 onwards, after its deadly cargo has disembarked, I can then start using its guns.

Because before its cargo has disembarked, its likely a concentration of 500 points. Its a massive target. After its cargo has disembarked, it is only a 300 points model whose shooting ability is not really on par to what it costs. So, it will be much less of a target.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/06 09:18:50


Post by: Jidmah


I'm going up against necrons and dark angels, so I'm fairly sure to be facing hellblasters and doomsday arks. Still, hiding behind obscuring or dense terrain might be a better option than 5++. The daemon's toll is mostly supposed to protect plague marines in midfield and help the blight launcher units to advance onto objectives ASAP.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/07 14:25:54


Post by: Jidmah


Eldenfirefly wrote:
That would be great thanks! Don't worry so much about the 5++. I think the DR is more important, and you have that already. A weapon attacking your LR would need to be -4 AP or better to make the 5++ have a difference. If you are able to deploy on a side of the board that has no melta guns or equivalent, that's probably good enough. I don't know if I would even shoot my LR's guns in turn 1. I rather increase its survivability turn 1 by popping smoke. And then turn 2 onwards, after its deadly cargo has disembarked, I can then start using its guns.

Because before its cargo has disembarked, its likely a concentration of 500 points. Its a massive target. After its cargo has disembarked, it is only a 300 points model whose shooting ability is not really on par to what it costs. So, it will be much less of a target.


So, I've won my game. At 75:65 it was a really close call because of some stupid mistakes I made. Turns out getting into your opponent's deployment zone is quite hard to do when you are playing on short table edges, so I only managed to get three linebreakers and two teleporter homers. I maxed out on primaries though and the mission secondary gave me 10 VP for keeping more than 50% of my units alive. As expected, there were no other good secondaries to be scored with mostly doomsday arcs, primaris, terminators and immortals on the table. Ironically the two of units harbinger poxwalkers and Typhus which I mostly brought as a joke unit ended up winning the game because when the appeared in turn 3, they denied two objectives to my opponents and tore down their banners. The threat of 40 poxwalker marching on from their table edge also kept quite a few units busy screening instead of shooting. I might actually try this again, even at 2k.

The land raider actually did a really good job. Due to the 44" width of the deployment zone it ended up next to the deamon's toll, so it had a 5++ until it died. It also had a plague surgeon neraby, but since I didn't roll as single one, that didn't matter much. Hilariously, both my opponents are players who started during 8th and therefore never had faced a land raider before. They were terrified by the huge tank and the prospect of it spilling mini-mortarions(deathshrouds) into their ranks. I went first turn so I could at least put a ruin between it and one of the doosday arks, but it still ate almost all of their shooting, including a full unit of destroyers with stratagem, grinding it down to 4 wounds after many 5++ saves and DR rolls. Mortarion himself couldn't have done it better.
In turn two the land raider had already fulfilled its purpose. The five deathshroud got out and succeeded to charge the destroyers, completely annihilating them with the help of the creeping blight stratagem. Even though the LR died in turn two to a redemptor charging it, the deathshroud proceeded to butcher their way through a squad of warriors, two squad of immortals and an intercessor squad clearing two objectives in the process, tearing down a banner and scoring linebreaker in the meantime.

So in my game the LR was definitely worth its points, the 10" movement boost for the deathshroud made all the difference. I might even consider advancing it next time and popping smokes, because those four lascannons simply didn't do a whole lot. Whether it is worth its points when you don't get first turn remains to be seen.

Other take-aways from that game:
- Mortarions Anvil is an interesting plague fleet even though there is not much power to be found here. The warlord trait made my relic sword prince pretty hard to kill, but he still died when he was not protected by LoS,. The stratagems mostly remained unused but forced my opponents into decisions they wouldn't have made otherwise. For example, they chose not to fire overcharged plasma at terminators and had trouble holding an objective without getting in range to be heroically intervened.
- Epidemicyst blade is hands down a mandatory relic. Combined with sword the stratagem it just slaughters anything in range. I managed to take out a plasmamancer, two cryptothralls and most of a c'tan shard in one turn.
- Ironclot Furnace felt wasted on the PBC but actually was very valuable on my MBH. The haulers also manage to regenerate multiple times by eating marines for 1 CP, keeping the tri-lobe until turn 4. If they get the new multi-melta profile they might become a pretty powerful unit.
- Teleport homers is not a good secondary for DG. None of my units that can enter the enemy backfield want to be standing around doing nothing for an entire turn, and you can't score by performing the action on turn 5.
- I'm thinking about bringing a terminator character to support my blightlords just so they can score linebreaker without the help of any other unit.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/07 15:00:59


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Fascinating read. Thanks so much for sharing! I always felt that DG has a stronger chance than any other faction of making a LR work. Because of contaminated monstrosity plus our terminators are movement 4, and advance half only, so they really benefit a lot from being delivered into battle in a LR.

Why would the Ironclot furnace be wasted on the PBC ? a 4++ save makes them sooo resilient. Is it because they gave up trying to shoot those PBC and instead focused all their fire on your haulers and LR instead? It is likely also because they know how hard it is to kill a PBC with the furnace protection.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/07 16:49:53


Post by: SatanEatSeitan


@Jidmah

thanks: this is a very useful report and congrats on winning the match.

I would like to signal this new and very informative post concerning the resilience and offensive capabilities of PMs just published on goonhammer (excellent, as always)

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-plague-marines-and-double-wounds/

Of course, things might change if the rumour of the -1 to wound is true.

My current hypothesis is that GW is really trying hard to translate on the tabletop what people are expecting from certain units based on the lore.

If this is true, we should see a push to adopt 7 man PMs squads as the core of most DG armies (they are already sold in seven, and the recent PL update support this reading), rather than big blobs.

Maybe the option of fielding 20 undying monsters on which you can project multiple buff and auras might go aways. But it's only a wild guess for now, of course.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Concerning the LR discussion, I feel like that if we had more weapon options then it would be much more attractive to field the big tank.

For instance, if there could be the possibility of replacing the las with more heavy bolters, or even updated MMs that would be more interesting.

As of now, I think that being forced to pay for 4 lascannons is one of the things that subtract from the attractiveness of fielding a LR


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/07 18:18:50


Post by: Jidmah


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Why would the Ironclot furnace be wasted on the PBC ? a 4++ save makes them sooo resilient. Is it because they gave up trying to shoot those PBC and instead focused all their fire on your haulers and LR instead? It is likely also because they know how hard it is to kill a PBC with the furnace protection.


I don't know, it kind of didn't really make them live that longer nor did it protect them from degrading. The only real difference is that rolling fours on your invuls succeed instead of failing. They lost most of their wounds to thunder hammers and doomsday cannons, and both died with plenty of overkill. The haulers were usually hiding from at least one doomsday ark and buffed with miasma in one turn
Accelerated entropy was awesome though. Min 3 damage and plague weapons, as well as the ability to move without penalty makes it such a great weapon, not just against vehicles but also against gravis models and when you really need that last primaris dude gone from an objective.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/07 19:08:29


Post by: Dedwoods42


Nice read Jidmah! I'd absolutely love for LRs to get some kind of Assault Ramp to properly support combat units, same with Spartans. The lascannons help out a lot filling the long range AT gap we have.

It seems for those taking them, lascannon Contemptors are the way to go - I've been eyeing up my Leviathan though. I hate how pricey they are, but with Contaminated Monstrosity they are very difficult to put down, especially in combat - and Grav Flux + drill does some pretty stupid stuff against vehicles and large squads of relativity elite infantry alike. Need to give it a run out and see if it's worth it's points.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/08 08:37:37


Post by: Nithaniel


Thanks Jidmah for those insights. I have been debating how best to run my PBC's with spitters or entropy. I have always run them with spitters and archcontaminator nearby with a poxbringer for the +1S. Everyone seems to be shifting to the entropy but I still like pushing my pbc's aggressively forward and harassing light infantry and doing midgame charges to bad touch vehicles.
Now even more so in 9th I'm ditching offensive capability for just being resilient.

So whats the best way to play entropy cannons?
Backfield long range units?
moving in to the midboard and clogging it up?
Do you still need to run an arch contaminator baby sitter? Definitely no need for the poxbringer I guess.

While entropy maybe better I still think the spitters have great utility and I'm not sure how much better the entropy is.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/08 09:22:32


Post by: blackmage


the real problem is not entropy or spitters,, is how much entropy might be unreliable and is a think you have to ponder.
They hit on 4's and just a -1 to hit mean they have issues. Said that now you face more than often marines/veichles so spitters is not always the best choice, im almost tempted to stop play them.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/08 09:34:38


Post by: Jidmah


 Nithaniel wrote:
Thanks Jidmah for those insights. I have been debating how best to run my PBC's with spitters or entropy. I have always run them with spitters and archcontaminator nearby with a poxbringer for the +1S. Everyone seems to be shifting to the entropy but I still like pushing my pbc's aggressively forward and harassing light infantry and doing midgame charges to bad touch vehicles.
Now even more so in 9th I'm ditching offensive capability for just being resilient.

I think the stratagem has just put them on equal footing, neither is particularly better than the other. My army composition was lacking guns to take out vehicles, so I went with entropy cannons. Since my opponents tried to deny the vehicle secondary I ended up shooting marines with them instead and it worked better than expected.

So whats the best way to play entropy cannons?
Backfield long range units?
moving in to the midboard and clogging it up?

I just used them in the same way I had used spitter PBC in 8th. There is no penalty for moving anymore and you can keep shooting the cannons at targets you are engaged with - neither primaris nor vehicles are particularly happy about that.

Do you still need to run an arch contaminator baby sitter? Definitely no need for the poxbringer I guess.

You can have a plague surgeon with stratagem upgrade nearby to re-roll ones and twos for wound rolls. As the S8 guns tend to wound on 3s anyways, it's usually just as good as arch contaminator.

While entropy maybe better I still think the spitters have great utility and I'm not sure how much better the entropy is.

If feel like I don't really want to advance PBC anymore because I lose the mortar and the slugger who always hit on 4+ now. I might feel different about that when actually facing -1 to hit armies, but most of my eldar opponents seem to have moved to master artisans instead of allaitoc.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/08 10:32:30


Post by: Nithaniel


Thanks for the replies guys. Food for thought. Its also very terrain dependant. I have played on mats with only obscuring and mixed with obscuring and dense cover which really hurts the mortar.

I don't really advance my PBC's either but moving them up a turn is valuable particularly with the update to Look out sir. Having resilient units out front is god for cloud too.

Right now my biggest issue at 2k is what plague company to run. I have been focusing on poxmongers for the ironclot on pbc's but I too am thinking its time to look at others for my blightlord utility.
Hypertoxic tinctures is a good shout for the PBC's that I hadn't considered.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/08 18:24:43


Post by: blackmage


if i can express my opinion...for backfiled reliable long range fire use contemptors with 2xdouble lascannons, reliable, thought enough, im thinking to swap maybe PBC with them, too many heavy armors/infantry for PBC


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/11 15:59:36


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Hi everyone,

Returning 40k player here, last game was early 7th. I previously played Nids and Tau, DG is new to me. I cobbled together the following list after some youtube/reddit research, and I'd love some opinions on how to reduce redundancy, trim the fat, and increase both killing power and resilience. I'm not a huge fan of spam, so I've tried to include at least a few different models and units. I don't need a WAC list, but I would like the end result to be a competitive TAC list that I can enjoy at local tournaments.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [92 PL, 5CP, 1,743pts] ++
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment CP
Plague Company: The Poxmongers

+ HQ +
Daemon Prince of Nurgle [8 PL, 160pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Hellforged sword, Ironclot Furnace, Warlord
Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 100pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
Plague Marines [10 PL, 197pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma pistol
. 6x Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: 2nd Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ melee weapons: Flail of Corruption

Plague Marines [6 PL, 110pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. 2x Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Poxwalker: 10x Improvised weapon


+ Elites +
Biologus Putrifier [4 PL, 65pts]
Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]


+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Spawn [5 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Spawn, Contaminated Monstrosity
Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter
Myphitic Blight-haulers [5 PL, 100pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Missile launcher, Multi-melta


+ Heavy Support +
Defiler [9 PL, -2CP, 140pts]: Contaminated Monstrosity, Defiler scourge, Reaper autocannon
Defiler [9 PL, -2CP, 140pts]: Contaminated Monstrosity, Defiler scourge, Reaper autocannon
Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Accelerated Entropy, Heavy slugger


+ Dedicated Transport +
Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, -1CP, 136pts]: Contaminated Monstrosity
. Storm Bolters: 2x Storm bolter


++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [12 PL, -2CP, 255pts] ++
Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle
Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ HQ +
Poxbringer [4 PL, 75pts]: Fleshy Abundance


+ Troops +
Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth
Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth

++ Total: [104 PL, 3CP, 1,998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


My thinking for the units is as follows:
1. Daemon Prince and Poxbringer escort the Defilers and PBC up the board buffing Strength, Invuln save, Hits, and healing wounds with Fleshy Abundance, until contact is made. After contact, they cause as much mayhem as possible.
2. Plaguecaster, Putrifier, Blightspawn, and melee Plague Marines go in the Drill and either drive across the board, or deep strike as needed. Upon disembarking, grenades are thrown, buffs and debuffs are distributed, and mayhem ensues. Blightspawn helps with getting charged, and protection from things like aircraft.
3. 5-man Plague Marine squad moves around assisting as they can.
4. Poxwalkers sit on a backfield objective until getting squashed.
5. Nurglings pop in early on top of objectives and hunker down with Nurgling Infestation as needed.
6. Chaos Spawn runs up a flank and tries to dislodge weak objective campers.
7. Bloat Drone goes infantry hunting.
8. Blight Hauler tries to pick off vehicles hanging back in the opposition DZ.

Thanks for any comments and/or criticism, they are all appreciated.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/11 23:15:09


Post by: Azuza001


Its not a bad list, especially considering what your going for as far as fun to competitive levels. A few things of note if I may....

1. I prefer twin las on my defilers if you want their shooting to be more threating. If not i prefer flamers. Reaper Autocannons are just not that useful against much.

2. I dont currently care for the bloat drones... and i own a few of them lol. But compare 1 to a defiler and look at the cost, it doesn't pan out well. Heck, look at the blight haulers, they are pretty good compared to the bloat drone. And taking 2 would give you points to modify the 2 defilers a bit while spreading out mobile cover since it appears thats your goal with them. They also make good mid field objective holders.

3. If you have a way to do it, swap the plaugecaster for a normal sorcerer of nurgle. He may seem worse but he is cheaper and gets access to the most powerful weapon in the game... the mighty bolt pistol. Then swap said pisrol for the relic pistol. As long as he hits a target with the pistol all weapons in your army count as plauge weapons against said target. Those defiler cannons? Rerolling all wounds. Bolter shots? Rerolling all wounnds. Multimelta and krak missiles from the blight hauler? Rerolling all wounds. And the range of the pistol goes to 18" which is deceptively long enough to actually get good use.


But that may just all be me. :p Its not a bad list by any means Otherwise.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 00:55:56


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Thanks for the response!

1. I wanted to keep the defilers cheap, and I think what I may do instead is replace the PBC with a Chaos Decimator with 2 Butcher Cannons.
2. I've heard this, I think I'll take the advice. Thanks!
3. This was a great save, thanks!


Azuza001 wrote:
Its not a bad list, especially considering what your going for as far as fun to competitive levels. A few things of note if I may....

1. I prefer twin las on my defilers if you want their shooting to be more threating. If not i prefer flamers. Reaper Autocannons are just not that useful against much.

2. I dont currently care for the bloat drones... and i own a few of them lol. But compare 1 to a defiler and look at the cost, it doesn't pan out well. Heck, look at the blight haulers, they are pretty good compared to the bloat drone. And taking 2 would give you points to modify the 2 defilers a bit while spreading out mobile cover since it appears thats your goal with them. They also make good mid field objective holders.

3. If you have a way to do it, swap the plaugecaster for a normal sorcerer of nurgle. He may seem worse but he is cheaper and gets access to the most powerful weapon in the game... the mighty bolt pistol. Then swap said pisrol for the relic pistol. As long as he hits a target with the pistol all weapons in your army count as plauge weapons against said target. Those defiler cannons? Rerolling all wounds. Bolter shots? Rerolling all wounnds. Multimelta and krak missiles from the blight hauler? Rerolling all wounds. And the range of the pistol goes to 18" which is deceptively long enough to actually get good use.


But that may just all be me. :p Its not a bad list by any means Otherwise.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 04:59:51


Post by: Virules


FYI you can't use the strat on the relic hellforged sword until they FAQ it


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 11:12:00


Post by: lindsay40k


Regarding Land Raiders: I’m a big fan of the FW one - Proteus? - that can take heavy Flamers and eat people in melee. I made it work in 8ed and 9ed’s vehicle rules plus WotS’s enhancements make it a pretty intimidating prospect.

Is anyone playing Crusades? I feel spoiled for choice with a starting budget of five relics or warlord Traits.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 13:57:46


Post by: lare2


New codex incoming


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And new character


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 15:04:45


Post by: Azuza001


Lmao. Anyone else find it funny we are getting our codex before dark angels get their support supplement?

And I am seeing a pattern in 9th edition, much like 7th edition had its "everyone gets a low option!" thing.

Everyone seems to be getting a new fortification. Marines get the bunker of doom. Necrons have the 3 pillars of stone coming. And then there is whatever is in the background of the deathguard reveal....



What is that?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 15:53:08


Post by: Abaddon303


I don't know what is? A foetid chiminea for keeping guests warm at BBQs in Nurgle's Garden?

Interesting @azuza01 you're the first person I've known to recommend Lascannons on a defiler. I've never given it much thought as I just presumed it was a bad idea. However I'm using my defiler a lot in my black legion army and he's doing good work for me I'm more open to giving him an upgrade.

But that's because Daemonforge on two Lascannons and the battle canon is actually very appealing but with DG not having access to that strat I'm not sure the Lascannons are worth it are they?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 15:59:36


Post by: Azuza001


las cannons I find are worth it with the relic pistol trick and an hq with arch contaminator.

I find hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and wounding on 3's rerolling for all those shots it can put out (battle cannon and twin las) its more efficient than people give it credit for.

I wish we had access to deamonforged, but since a lot of people soup a csm parrol sorcerer w/ cultists in for warptime you could get access that way as well. I dont do that myself but I know a lot of people do.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 16:37:59


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Dunno. If I'm paying the points for something like a lascannon, I want it on a more accurate chassis than a Defiler. For about the same or less you can get a Contemptor Dread with twin las, or a Decimator with butchers. The Decimator still benefits from all of the daemonforged/daemon rules as well.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 16:44:01


Post by: lare2


Looks like they might follow the aos route and release faction terrain. It sells well in aos so may as well port the idea over. Pretty much everything in 40ks been tested out in aos first.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 17:08:06


Post by: Abaddon303


Are Leviathans fully not an option anymore due to cost or are people still giving them a run out semi competitively? Does bring able to give them DR make them better value for points?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 17:53:30


Post by: Azuza001


I think its too expensive for what it does myself. For 400 pts you can get much more bang for your buck just by running other units. Heck you almost get 3 defilers for that price.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 18:06:16


Post by: Abaddon303


Yeh thought so unfortunately. Such a shame. I was hoping somebody could justify it to me tho.
Hopefully the new FW rulebook helps them out big time because they're just about the best looking 40k model ever produced...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 19:12:29


Post by: Azuza001


Oh you want a reason to own one? They are freaking awsome looking and if built as cheap as possible people will shoot it before anything else.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 20:38:21


Post by: Jidmah


Azuza001 wrote:
Lmao. Anyone else find it funny we are getting our codex before dark angels get their support supplement?

And I am seeing a pattern in 9th edition, much like 7th edition had its "everyone gets a low option!" thing.

Everyone seems to be getting a new fortification. Marines get the bunker of doom. Necrons have the 3 pillars of stone coming. And then there is whatever is in the background of the deathguard reveal....



What is that?


If I had to guess it probably has a 7" aura dealing mortal wound in rare cases and otherwise is pretty worthless like almost all faction terrain


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/12 20:56:23


Post by: Abaddon303


Azuza001 wrote:
Oh you want a reason to own one? They are freaking awesome looking and if built as cheap as possible people will shoot it before anything else.


I already own one for my Black Legion army i finished painting during lockdown unfortunately just before the big price hike that came with 9th edition...

I just wondered if they could be made to work in a death guard army so i could justify buying another one because i clearly like to punish myself lol.

So who wants to take a punt at what the new DG character is? Or are we reasonably confident that double plague spewer thing he's carrying points to him being a Lord of Poxes? Hopefully the plague flamer is as good as the foul blightspawns and I would imagine he'll come with some kind of debuff aura considering the lore description...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 08:16:57


Post by: Jidmah


That weapon is a plague spewer, it's almost identical to the one on Lord Felthius' cohort except for the second outlet. He also seems to have a powerfist on the other hand.

It's also pretty safe to assume that flamers will be going to 12" across the board, so an educated guess would put him with a 2d6" 12" S5 AP-1 D1 plague weapon and fist hitting on 3s.

Worst case, it's just a new load-out for a lord of contagion, but he really doesn't look like one.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 10:02:40


Post by: Doohicky


They also mentioned in the preview that he buffs daemon engines. They didn't go into the details though


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 10:10:52


Post by: strigops


Hear he's supposed to be a lord of virulence, in the codex it says they are "masters of massed bombardment", so he should give some buffs to shooting.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 11:00:57


Post by: Abaddon303


Hmm interesting. Double plague spewer would still be decent defensive firepower if he's there to buff daemon engines. Would seem like an obvious candidate to carry the ironclot furnace too.
If he works like the lord discordant and gives +1 to hit on PBCs and defilers he'll be an auto pick I think


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 11:32:27


Post by: Jidmah


A DG lord discordant would be awesome.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 11:55:27


Post by: Abaddon303


yeh definitely. You think they might allow DG access to any other of the csm units? The greater possessed would be cool although we already have a good selection of elite buffing characters. I think that's one of the reasons DG have transferred well to the new edition. My black legion army is very difficult to be functional with only 3 HQ slots, otherwise i'm burning CP...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 12:09:22


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Wonder if he is a generic character or a named character. Named characters are more limited, because you can't customise them. So unless he is fantastic enough even as a named character, otherwise, I would prefer him as a generic character whom we can give relics and warlord traits.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 12:17:16


Post by: TonyH122


Abaddon303 wrote:
yeh definitely. You think they might allow DG access to any other of the csm units? The greater possessed would be cool although we already have a good selection of elite buffing characters. I think that's one of the reasons DG have transferred well to the new edition. My black legion army is very difficult to be functional with only 3 HQ slots, otherwise i'm burning CP...


I really hope they don't; in fact, I hope they go in the opposite direction. I want more variety in my armies, not less. If I wanted to play CSM units, I'd play CSM. It's weird that we still have these random units that lack T5 and DR as it is, a situation represented on the tabletop with a sprinkle of models that are of a completely different aesthetic. Interesting, creative, fluffy analogue units I'm ok with, but not just lazy copy/paste. If it weren't for our lack of troop transports, I'd be happy if they took out all such units from our new codex (Lord, Sorcerer, Cultists, Possessed, Helbrutes, Predators, Defilers, Land Raiders, Rhinos - Spawn are a fluffy exception, but ours should get DR). It's be good motivation to collapse some rules into existing units (giving re-roll 1s to Lord of Contagions outright), and maybe even release some new models for us down the line.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 12:38:05


Post by: Abaddon303


Yeh I actually agree with you to be honest. I do think possessed can stay though and greater possessed are just fun from a modelling perspective.
I find it odd that the defiler is the only generic Daemon weapon we have access to. Especially considering TS get fiends and heldrakes.
But I'd rather they ditched the defiler too and gave us another death guard exclusive daemon engine that fills a similar role.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 15:49:26


Post by: Jidmah


From a fluff perspective, having the standard marine vehicles makes a lot of sense, since DG kill their crews (chaos or loyal) with diseases and then capture them. The plans for defilers have been given to all legions by Abaddon, so DG should have them as well, and any legion should have helbrutes. I feel like all of them should all get DR though, but we now have a stratagem to do so. Lord, Sorcerer, Cultists... yeah, we have our own versions of those, they can go away.

Things that should be available to DG are:
- Obliterators (Mortarion literally helped creating the virus)
- Master of Possession (psyker in charge of dark factoriums which create daemon engines, the plague planet is riddled with such structures)
- Venom Crawler (it's literally a variant of the MBH/bloat-drone)
- Greater Possessed (to go with the regular possessed)
- Vindicator (what exactly prevents DG from capturing those when they can capture land raiders?)

In addition the Tallyman should become a proper dark apostle with prayers. Outside of that, I must say that I'm fairly happy with our range.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/13 17:36:50


Post by: Castozor


If he buffs our deamon engines I wonder if they will give him some movement tricks or abilities, hard to see how a possible 4" (Terminator armour?) speed will allow him to keep up otherwise. I also wonder if the codex release will be the time for them to release a start collecting box for us, since we lack an easy way to start a DG army now with the loss of the 8th starter set.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/14 03:44:10


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Can we take the flail of corruption on a plague champion in a plague marines unit?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/14 03:45:44


Post by: Nightlord1987


I also kinda hope the blister pack Standard Bearer becomes akin to the Loyalist Ancient.

This guy has a huge Icon and a unique model for such a useless buff. Plus, we already have an Icon bearer in the regular PM kit.

The "Standard Bearer" could easily become a character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Castozor wrote:
If he buffs our deamon engines I wonder if they will give him some movement tricks or abilities, hard to see how a possible 4" (Terminator armour?) speed will allow him to keep up otherwise. I also wonder if the codex release will be the time for them to release a start collecting box for us, since we lack an easy way to start a DG army now with the loss of the 8th starter set.


If hes not wearing Cataphractii, normal Termies would move at 5 inches. Not that it matters.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/14 04:20:48


Post by: Jidmah


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Can we take the flail of corruption on a plague champion in a plague marines unit?


Nope, regular marines only.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nightlord1987 wrote:
If hes not wearing Cataphractii, normal Termies would move at 5 inches. Not that it matters.

All DG terminators are in Cataphractii Armour though, and he has the "arch" that is characteristic for that type of armor.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/14 14:31:16


Post by: Azuza001


Well with cataphractii and Tartaros armor all getting rolled into its own new thing in the loyalist codex who knows what they have planned. Personally i don't mind only moving 4" and halving advances. Thats what bell guys are for lmao.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/14 17:24:18


Post by: lare2


New article on the community implies MBH multi-meltas are gonna get a buff - now Heavy 2 and half range damage is D6+2. Other buffs listed as well, e.g., flamers, but MBH is the one that excites me.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/15 11:04:32


Post by: Doohicky


Since all but our combi flamers are 'special' versions of the flamer we will probably be stuck with 9" range on them until new codex drops.
But that's not too long a wait so I'm not really bothered


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/16 21:24:06


Post by: Doohicky


So what are people's thoughts on the new 'core units' part of aura rules?

Will Arch Contaminator now only affect core units (now that a DP finally has access to plague weapon)?

What auras do you think will and won't be core only?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/16 21:48:25


Post by: Jidmah


Hopefully DG won't have to rely on arch-contaminator to do any damage in their new codex anymore. It really is a clutch right now.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/16 21:50:58


Post by: Dedwoods42


I'm now even more curious to see what the Lord of Virulence rules are - if that's going to be keyed specifically to Daemon Engines, or vehicles on the whole.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 03:10:03


Post by: Azuza001


I am going to say this here, before anyone gets into a huff.

A new codex means everything in the old one is not garunteed to stay in there. Stratagems/ warlord traits/ how specific units actually will work now.... all of this is open to modifications to try and fit with a new way of balancing things. So before anyone gets all "this is bs" or "this is broken, think of this combo" remember we don't know how anything will work going forward. Other than standard / general advice with current information in mind any forward theory crafting should be taken with salt.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 04:19:57


Post by: Eldenfirefly


yup, the new codex may buff us in some areas, but it may also nerf us in others.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 06:32:46


Post by: lare2


Gotta agree with Azuza.

Although, saying that, the nerf's come in for narrative reasons. There are more narrative reasons than not for arch-con to buff all plague weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think it's goodbye to my CL sitting with PBC though.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 06:45:40


Post by: Jidmah


Agree, the chaos lord and DP aura are pretty likely to take hit. I'm also wondering whether all of PA will be incorporated with the codex of if we keep using both books.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 12:21:03


Post by: SatanEatSeitan


I agree with Azuza too: everything is possible

Concerning PA: I bet most of it will be incorporated, but something will have to change necessarily. For instance, one of the strats from the 2th company is de facto replaced by the new rules for vehicles in 9th.

Concerning the big change about "core" units. For us, one of the most interesting things will be to see if some of the daemon engines get to be "core". Any prediction?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 12:37:23


Post by: lare2


If daemon engines are core and troops are as well... that doesn't leave much that isn't.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 13:09:56


Post by: Jidmah


 SatanEatSeitan wrote:
I agree with Azuza too: everything is possible

Concerning PA: I bet most of it will be incorporated, but something will have to change necessarily. For instance, one of the strats from the 2th company is de facto replaced by the new rules for vehicles in 9th.

Concerning the big change about "core" units. For us, one of the most interesting things will be to see if some of the daemon engines get to be "core". Any prediction?


My bets are that core will be infantry, bikes and dreads/helbrutes for all marine factions - basically anyone who gets a legion trait. The clear message is that they don't want to have chaos lords babysitting artillery tanks, but luckily we get a now character to do exactly that


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 14:59:16


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Errr, do we know enuf about the new character to know that he is meant to babysit artillery tanks?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/17 16:05:01


Post by: lare2


We're all just living in hope.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/18 10:38:26


Post by: Dedwoods42


Eldenfirefly wrote:
Errr, do we know enuf about the new character to know that he is meant to babysit artillery tanks?


They said on the stream that he buffs vehicles, and lore-wise Lords of Virulence are masters of bombardment. Beyond that we don't know, he could buff their Ld or something


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/21 02:20:31


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Do any of you have good suggestions on successfully using either of our Terminator options in 9th? I'd love to learn which loadouts, how many models, which strategems, and how you use the unit(s). I can't seem to wrap my head around using them other than Morty with bodyguards.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/21 03:52:14


Post by: MinMax


Filthy_Sanchez wrote:
Do any of you have good suggestions on successfully using either of our Terminator options in 9th? I'd love to learn which loadouts, how many models, which strategems, and how you use the unit(s). I can't seem to wrap my head around using them other than Morty with bodyguards.
Large unit of Blightlord Terminators, all equipped with combi-plasma and bubotic axes. Add flails of corruption to taste. Use Cloud of Flies to move up safely and blast anything/everything off the board with impunity.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/21 07:31:00


Post by: Jidmah


Well, I had some surprise successes with driving a 5++/DR landraider full of deathshrouds into my enemies armies. Unless the LR gets downed before it moves they have the potential to butcher their way through the entire midfield unless your opponent pours some serious firepower into them - way more than their cost.
IF the LR is downed before it moves, you can still sit them onto objectives and your opponent pretty much skips their first shooting phase.
Probably not tournament material, but definitely good enough for semi-comeptitive environments.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 01:30:43


Post by: lindsay40k


Anyone tried souping up the firepower of Blightlord Combi-bolters? I’m reluctant to go full plasma with them, what with them likely to be gaining a wound and thus becoming more painful to lose to overheats. With Tallyman CP refunds, I’m inclined to suppose stratagems are a safer bet for fuelling their firepower? Or is it unviable to fund that as well as cloud of flies?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 03:05:46


Post by: Azuza001


I personally like combi melta terms myself. I havent been trying to get into melta range really, instead happy with 8 str 8 ap-4 d6 dmg (i run a squad of 10 with 2 flails). Them with a lord of Contagion deep striking in t2 will present such an incredible fire base that you will pretty much own the area they are in all game. Only works if you spend t1 making a big enough hole for them to go wherever they want t2 though.

Mortarion and a squad of 5 deathshroud terms also works incredibly well. Hide the 5 terms behind los blocking terrain but within protecting range of morty, put a bell guy and a normal csm sorcerer near them. Sorcerer and bell keep terms in range of morty and give morty enough time to spell up. Then when they finally separate the terms are still Really effective with the sorcerer and bell guy buffing them. I have used this combo again to good effective, especially thanks to the way their bodyguard rule is currently worded.


All of this advice is probably only good until November though, when the new codex drops who knows what combos will or will not work.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 11:02:37


Post by: Nithaniel


Blightlords in Deepstrike are a bit of a liability for me because finding space for so many models is risky but you want a large squad to make use of the new strats and VoTLW. I've played 2 games where my opponents have screened them back so far I was forced to drop them behind where they would have been if I had started them on the board. So what I have done is started running them in slightly smaller squad than max. I find that 7 or 8 is a good number, below 7 you don't have enough shooting to clear chaff. I've taken to running 7 for nurgles number.

This way I can look at my opponents army before deployment and decide if they're fast mobile or massed bodies they can screen the BL out so I will deploy them, If they are a smaller elite army I can deepstrike them.

I prefer all bolters then I can use the strat to increase rapid fire so 6 will do 36shots which is decent.

Lately I have been loving the blightspawn sitting with them. I use cloud but leave plenty of space around the Blightlords and blightspawn to tempt someone to charge. the blightspawn means they go last in combat. Such a fun gotcha which surprises me how many people fall for because I always say at the beginning of the battle, This is a foul blightspawn and if you charge near him you will fight last. People in the heat of battle forget and I'm fine with that.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 12:46:15


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I keep debating the utility and effectiveness of 5-10 Blightlords with combi-plasma or combi-melta accompanied by a jump-pack Lord with the Wormspitter. I need to keep playing around with the math, though I suspect this will be better in a threat saturation list once the new codex drops and our Termies get 3 wounds each.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 15:14:08


Post by: Azuza001


If your doing wormsplitter and a lord my suggestion changes to all combi bolters because arch contaminator + vets + strat to make you rapid fire 6 makes your bolters plauge weapons and you can reroll all wounds. Again this assumes arch contaminator sticks around next codex.

Personally at this point pick what you like thematically is my best suggestion. I like melta, I know even if it becomes bad again later down the road I have those melta guys who will still be good even if I separate the squad into 2 5 man squads and use them as tank hunters. With out knowing the codex i would hate to suggest something that becomes crap in 2 months that you picked because we suggested it was good right now.

So it comes down to....

Combi bolters - good, basic, cheapest option, hard to go wrong.
Combi plasma - best gun of 8th, still valuable in 9th va 2w models but as always 1's go boom.
Combi melta - great anti tank or elite killing power, short range, with melta change may be best answer for gravis?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 15:16:42


Post by: lare2


Just a quick one, you can't make combibolters on BLT plague weapons - the strats only good for PM.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 15:24:39


Post by: Azuza001


 lare2 wrote:
Just a quick one, you can't make combibolters on BLT plague weapons - the strats only good for PM.


I know. Wormspitter makes them plauge weapons. The relic pistol hits first, then anything that targets that enemy unit gains the plauge weapon ability for that turn. Point is its kinda a broken and stupid combo that I don't see surviving the new codex but atm it works.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 16:00:31


Post by: lare2


Awesome - thanks for clearing. Forgot about that relic as never bother with it.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/22 16:32:06


Post by: blackmage


 Nithaniel wrote:
Blightlords in Deepstrike are a bit of a liability for me because finding space for so many models is risky but you want a large squad to make use of the new strats and VoTLW. I've played 2 games where my opponents have screened them back so far I was forced to drop them behind where they would have been if I had started them on the board. So what I have done is started running them in slightly smaller squad than max. I find that 7 or 8 is a good number, below 7 you don't have enough shooting to clear chaff. I've taken to running 7 for nurgles number.

This way I can look at my opponents army before deployment and decide if they're fast mobile or massed bodies they can screen the BL out so I will deploy them, If they are a smaller elite army I can deepstrike them.

I prefer all bolters then I can use the strat to increase rapid fire so 6 will do 36shots which is decent.

Lately I have been loving the blightspawn sitting with them. I use cloud but leave plenty of space around the Blightlords and blightspawn to tempt someone to charge. the blightspawn means they go last in combat. Such a fun gotcha which surprises me how many people fall for because I always say at the beginning of the battle, This is a foul blightspawn and if you charge near him you will fight last. People in the heat of battle forget and I'm fine with that.

blightlords are strong but dont play the mission, they deny a portion of table but cant really control objectives, if you cant remove all enemy obj sec. models you score 0, when you play for a few you see how much that impact.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/09/29 09:00:27


Post by: Nithaniel


 blackmage wrote:
 Nithaniel wrote:
Blightlords in Deepstrike are a bit of a liability for me because finding space for so many models is risky but you want a large squad to make use of the new strats and VoTLW. I've played 2 games where my opponents have screened them back so far I was forced to drop them behind where they would have been if I had started them on the board. So what I have done is started running them in slightly smaller squad than max. I find that 7 or 8 is a good number, below 7 you don't have enough shooting to clear chaff. I've taken to running 7 for nurgles number.

This way I can look at my opponents army before deployment and decide if they're fast mobile or massed bodies they can screen the BL out so I will deploy them, If they are a smaller elite army I can deepstrike them.

I prefer all bolters then I can use the strat to increase rapid fire so 6 will do 36shots which is decent.

Lately I have been loving the blightspawn sitting with them. I use cloud but leave plenty of space around the Blightlords and blightspawn to tempt someone to charge. the blightspawn means they go last in combat. Such a fun gotcha which surprises me how many people fall for because I always say at the beginning of the battle, This is a foul blightspawn and if you charge near him you will fight last. People in the heat of battle forget and I'm fine with that.

blightlords are strong but dont play the mission, they deny a portion of table but cant really control objectives, if you cant remove all enemy obj sec. models you score 0, when you play for a few you see how much that impact.


This is true but totally list dependant. I play Poxmongers daemon engine heavy list with summoning epidemius. The BLT's are never MVP's they hold 2 functions for me. Firstly in a six objective game and sometimes a 5, I deploy on the board and move up to an objective and hold forever. With Cloud and a foulblightspawn they hold the line so well. In 4 objective games in deployment I play mindgames with my opoonent and put them into reserves and really emphasise how potentially dangerous they are. My opponents tend to spread to screen them out giving me better targets for my shooting. In my infantry heavy list with plaguemarine poxwalkers and nurglings they are not worth using, better off with more nurglings.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/01 09:58:07


Post by: Jidmah


Apparently someone took first place at the San Antonio Shootout with pure DG:

Spearhead (-3 CP) Poxmongers

Lord of Contagion, Plaguereaper
Lord of Contagion, Manreaper

Hellforged Landraider Achilles, Contaminated Monstrocity
PBC, entropy cannons, Accelerated Entropy
PBC, entropy cannons
PBC, entropy cannons

Patrol (0 CP) Poxmongers

Chaos Lord, Bolt Pistol+Chainsword, Arch-Contaminator, Ironclot Furnace
Typhus, Harbinger of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence, Blades of Putrefaction

10 cultists

3x MBH
3x MBH


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/01 16:34:44


Post by: blackmage


guess he use LR to carry thypus+2 LOC in melee. Strong vs marine lists, not sure against something else, like demons/orks and so on.
Anyway to understand that list 1st place would be interesting look at top4 lists and know which ones he met, for me is heavily tailored against a specific meta, like marine and custodes. If you met something like arlquins for example, or some demon lists like we see around i dont know what you could do.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/02 04:17:23


Post by: Eldenfirefly


 Jidmah wrote:
Apparently someone took first place at the San Antonio Shootout with pure DG:

Spearhead (-3 CP) Poxmongers

Lord of Contagion, Plaguereaper
Lord of Contagion, Manreaper

Hellforged Landraider Achilles, Contaminated Monstrocity
PBC, entropy cannons, Accelerated Entropy
PBC, entropy cannons
PBC, entropy cannons

Patrol (0 CP) Poxmongers

Chaos Lord, Bolt Pistol+Chainsword, Arch-Contaminator, Ironclot Furnace
Typhus, Harbinger of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence, Blades of Putrefaction

10 cultists

3x MBH
3x MBH



Thats such a skewed list. This all boiled down to his matchups. If he ran into any kind of horde list, he would have lost badly. He only had 1 squad of infantry... @@ His horde clearing power doesn't look good. Most of his weapons are all catered towards elite infantry or vehicle clearing.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/02 07:30:14


Post by: Jidmah


Well, he does have 6 frag missiles and 3 plague mortars and worst case you can always just charge them with a unit of MBH.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/02 11:09:22


Post by: Nora


Someone who knows what happens to the Psychic Awakening strats and other stuff for the faction that get a new codex? Will PA still be valid or integrated or just not valid anymore?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/02 11:35:13


Post by: Jidmah


Considering how all the Marine goodies have been moved to the codex, it seems like PA will be obsolete after the codex.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/02 18:25:19


Post by: Dedwoods42


Very good chance it's not only integrated but also updated to move some of the upgrade costs to points instead of CP if the Marine book is anything to go by.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/03 00:32:31


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


What's the general consensus on anti-vehicle in 9th? I'm considering Helbrutes with twin lascannons, melee defilers, MBHs, and plasma or more likely melta Blightlords. The Blightlords seems somewhat like a suicide unit, but they should get the job done. Helbrutes seem reliable but fragile. I like melee defilers, but they seem slow, and hard to get where they need to be. MBHs seem like good all-rounders, but the 4+ BS is turning me off. I'm strongly debating infiltrating the defilers, or just going with a couple units of 5-man Blightlords with combi-meltas.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/03 07:22:52


Post by: Jidmah


PBC with accelerated entropy are pretty awesome at killing tanks, if you bring 3 the 4+ is very unlikely to come and bite you. The next best thing in my experience is a daemon prince with the new relic sword, he flips tanks easily.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/05 16:07:57


Post by: lare2


Updates for our weapons are up. MBHs are pretty rock now.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/05 21:41:02


Post by: Jidmah


Outside of the multi-melta change the next most relevant change is probably plasma not being more likely to explode against -1 to hit.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/06 03:10:40


Post by: Vortenger


Twin Heavy Bolter is showing as Strength 6? That's...unique.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/06 12:51:20


Post by: blackmage


Vortenger wrote:
Twin Heavy Bolter is showing as Strength 6? That's...unique.

a mistake obviously


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/06 14:10:57


Post by: Vortenger


Certainly. Worth mentioning so to be corrected though


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/08 08:01:59


Post by: Nora


 Jidmah wrote:
Considering how all the Marine goodies have been moved to the codex, it seems like PA will be obsolete after the codex.


I am not sure but this does not seem to be the case. I could not find anything about it and there is a new Erreta for the SM PA and nothing inside it hinted that it is obsolete.
The reason that I am keen to know this is that I made a DG list focused around Spawns and it is vital ot have access to the CONTAMINATED MONSTROSITY start and also the THE DAEMON’S TOLL relic.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/08 08:42:47


Post by: tneva82


 Nora wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Considering how all the Marine goodies have been moved to the codex, it seems like PA will be obsolete after the codex.


I am not sure but this does not seem to be the case. I could not find anything about it and there is a new Erreta for the SM PA and nothing inside it hinted that it is obsolete.
The reason that I am keen to know this is that I made a DG list focused around Spawns and it is vital ot have access to the CONTAMINATED MONSTROSITY start and also the THE DAEMON’S TOLL relic.


The rules presented in
the 8th edition (printed 2018) version of Codex: Space Wolves are
no longer supported, and cannot be used. Similarly, if a Space
Wolves rule from Psychic Awakening: Saga of the Beast does not
feature within this document, it cannot be used

Same for BA.

Regular space marines didn't get PA update


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/08 09:33:59


Post by: Nithaniel


A while ago I was asking about your opinions on a 9 blight hauler list. Mixed responses from you guys as no one had committed to buying 9.

Since then I have been ebay rescuing blight haulers from horrible owners that don't want them anymore to try the list. It was a bit meh BUT now we have 2 shot Multi Meltas with d6+2 at half range!!! I really think a 9 hauler poxmongers ironclot list has some merit, I'm just having trouble fleshing it out to a complete list.

Any thoughts from my Barbarusian brothers?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/08 15:21:47


Post by: ninjafiredragon


Nithaniel,

I as well see merit in blight haulers. Advantages being that they are obscenely tough, threaten a range of targets, and favor pushing up for board control. All of these are essential for a strong 9th list in my opinion.

As for what to supplement the blight haulers with, I could see a demon prince with the ironclot furnace supported by 60+ poxwalkers being an extremely durable list that can sit on objectives easily and threaten a lot of the enemies army.

The only thing you do not want is your Haulers being stuck in combat, which is why I like a demon prince as well, as he can threaten a counter attack while being mobile enough to keep up with the haulers. Maybe even two princes would be smart. The other HQs feel a little out of place, as most are not mobile enough to keep up with the haulers, or just dont synergize well.

I think PBC's might feel a little odd in this list, which is why I havent mentioned them. They function in a similar vien as haulers, and I think using those points to cover some of the haulers weaknesses might be more advantageous.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/08 18:12:57


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Find a spot for a Great Unclean One, exalted, or otherwise. Give him a Doomsday Bell and take Fleshy Abundance. Use FA to heal the GUO or your MBHs, and if the enemy manages to kill one or two of the MBHs, the DB lets you roll a D6 for each unit at the start of each of your turns, and on a 4+ you get back a full strength MBH. Wheeee.

 Nithaniel wrote:
A while ago I was asking about your opinions on a 9 blight hauler list. Mixed responses from you guys as no one had committed to buying 9.

Since then I have been ebay rescuing blight haulers from horrible owners that don't want them anymore to try the list. It was a bit meh BUT now we have 2 shot Multi Meltas with d6+2 at half range!!! I really think a 9 hauler poxmongers ironclot list has some merit, I'm just having trouble fleshing it out to a complete list.

Any thoughts from my Barbarusian brothers?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/08 19:30:31


Post by: Castozor


I actually wanted to try a list with 6 but with our codex confirmed to be coming soon(ish), I decided to hold of on any purchases for my DG until I find out what will still be usable post-codex. As for your list, I'll second NinjaFireDragon, maybe not 60 poxwalkers per se, but you need some objec in that list I think. Haulers are though and hard to shift but they can't chew trough most troops in CC.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/09 07:35:14


Post by: Jidmah


I think that 9 might be overdoing it. They are great units and all, but 9 is too much of an investment, especially since hard-hitting melee units tear them to shreds. Skew swings both ways.

Two units of MBH though? Yeah, that is probably going to be a really good investment, especially if you back them with ironclot furnace. The new character might also be a very good match for them.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/11 16:38:29


Post by: Brymm


Agreed, if they have the same load out and are similarly pointed, they are gonna be sweet.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/11 16:42:30


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I am almost 100% sure that when the new DG codex comes out, either they will nerf ironclot furnace or remove that relic altogether. Chaos aren't supposed to have nice things. :(


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/12 10:26:54


Post by: Eldarsif


 Castozor wrote:
I actually wanted to try a list with 6 but with our codex confirmed to be coming soon(ish), I decided to hold of on any purchases for my DG until I find out what will still be usable post-codex. As for your list, I'll second NinjaFireDragon, maybe not 60 poxwalkers per se, but you need some objec in that list I think. Haulers are though and hard to shift but they can't chew trough most troops in CC.


Pretty much this. Have a squad of MBH that I finished painting, but won't be adding anymore until I see how the codex treats us.

I also worry that our codex will raise our points considerably as we start getting 2 wound Plague Marines and 3 wound Blightlords. Especially since our wounds are harder to deal with considering Disgustingly Resilient.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/12 10:39:40


Post by: Jidmah


So I had a game with then new multi-melta yesterday and MBH have become outright insane. Never mind getting into melta-range, six meltas on a 10" platform will easily finish pretty much any target at max range anyways and if some elite unit (read: gravis) dares get close to them, they just massacre them.

Mortarion also died first thing into the game as he always does, I wonder why people are bringing him to tournaments now? Are they putting him into strategic reserves?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/12 16:36:11


Post by: ninjafiredragon


I did a 2k game with my deathguard this saturday. Lists are in spoiler
Spoiler:
My list was Morty, Typhus, 40 poxwalkers, 12 plague marines with putrifier, 3 MBH, and 2 blight drones.
He brought the Silent King, Nightbringer, 30 warriors, 5 wraiths, and a smattering of charachters.
As Jidmah said, morty seems not so great. Near 500 points to be focused down relatively easily hurts. His silent king was laying down NASTY firepower that morty had nowhere to hide from. Also, the nightbringer apparently is built to counter our deathguard and mortarion specifically as DR and invuls dont work against him.

My plague marine blight grenade bombed his wraiths... killing all but 1. He then reanimated 1, I shot them with something else, killed nothing and he reanimated another. Was very disappointed by how little damage I ended up doing by the end.

MBH seemed strong, but in a weird place. I think the opponent has to shoot at them to be worth it. My opponent kind of ignored my MBH and instead shot at Morty. So my MBH killed a spider, and did the max 3 damage I could do in 1 phase (what a dumb rule) against the night bringer, none of which was integral to my plan.

It was my opponents first game with the new crons, and while not intentionally, he was for sure messing a lot up. He kind of assumed that the stat lines all stayed the same, even when they didnt, so the nightbringer moved 12" instead of 8", etc etc

It felt like I had no way to deal with the silent king. I spent a lot of my resources trying to kill the nightbringer and the wraiths, and was unable to wipe either fully. Necrons seem to be just as, if not a little more durable than death guard.

Also really sucks that Morty has the exact number of wounds required to make him unable to hide on the table. Which was pretty frustrating when his silent king, with more wounds total in the unit, could hide, while Morty couldnt.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/12 17:38:01


Post by: Brymm


The only times I’ve had Morty work in my lists is to use him super aggressively as the biggest distraction carnifex paired with the aggressive army that shines near the center, like spitter drones and daemon princes supported by haulers or crawlers. If you can push up with three drones and a few princes that avoided all fire due to Morty, you’re gonna have a huge advantage scoring objectives. Most people will not toe up to the line when Morty is poised on yours. They will at least fall back the minimum to avoid a maximum charge on turn 1. This means you will control the center with incredibly tough units like your t7/3+/4++\5+++ 10 wound drones and similar profiled cheap as chips blight haulers.

Getting turn 1 and getting off Miasma means that your opponent will have to dump most likely all of their shooting into Morty on their turn 1 to avoid an auto loss. If you go second you’re still in a similar spot, just not nearly as commanding.

I have tried similar styles without Morty and have really struggled because without such an obvious unit that they are forced to shoot, they can plink down drones, making my center push much weaker.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/12 18:36:06


Post by: Jidmah


How does such a list protect its backfield?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 00:02:46


Post by: l0k1


How do people feel about Foetid Bloat Drones with dual plaguespitters in this edition? Or should we be more focused on using the flesh mower if we use Bloat Drones at all?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 07:26:27


Post by: Jidmah


They feel inferior to MBH honestly.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 08:22:58


Post by: Salt donkey


 l0k1 wrote:
How do people feel about Foetid Bloat Drones with dual plaguespitters in this edition? Or should we be more focused on using the flesh mower if we use Bloat Drones at all?


They’re not great at all. At this point blighthaulers are very OP, so it’s hard justify anything over them let along bloat drones. For more than 50 less points you get a unit with better stratagems, better abilities, and better weapons. All for the cost of 2 DR wounds and no fly. I honestly have no idea what GW was thinking pricing haulers at 100 and plaguespitter drones at over 150.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 20:22:47


Post by: Castozor


 Jidmah wrote:
They feel inferior to MBH honestly.

This really, although this might change with our new codex. I should add however that were I play I mostly play against other power armour lists, and since they will all soon(ish) get 2 wounds, -1ap, 1dmg just feels so useless. I'm leaving my Plagueburst Crawlers at home for the same reason. While killing power was never their main draw they are absolutely pathetic against Primaris, and while though even they can't stand up against these new Eradicators or so I've found. Now with the Flesh-mower they are both more affordable and IMO worth taking. MBH are great, but they and the flesh-mower have different roles and targets. With the mowers they can mulch the 2W power armour dudes and distract them while my slower element of marines push up and the MBH can target vehicles.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 20:31:06


Post by: Brymm


Drones have an entirely different role than MBHs and only compete for force organization slots in Fast Attack. Drones are for pressuring less survivable ob sec units and poorly screened support characters, where you can fly over terrain or enemies models to attack those weak units. They are a tad overpriced in 9th but mainly because FLY is worse.

As stated above, with scouts basically gone from Space Marines and Space Marines being the most popular high tier faction, the Bloat Drone with spitters doesn’t seem like the best choice any longer. The role they fill just isn’t needed as much anymore.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 20:59:25


Post by: l0k1


I was debating picking some up before the codex drops. I figured with the wounds changes, that the flesh mower version might be the better option if you took them at all. Thanks for saving me $


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 22:15:33


Post by: Castozor


Well the real answer in that case would be A) Wait for the code to drop or B) the even more future proof: magnetize.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/10/22 22:30:33


Post by: l0k1


 Castozor wrote:
Well the real answer in that case would be A) Wait for the code to drop or B) the even more future proof: magnetize.


I'll be going with option A since I'm 90% sure the ones I was watching were from Dark Imperium.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/01 12:28:14


Post by: dan2026


Can someone tell me, how do Nurgle Daemons and Death Guard work when combined in the same army?
Do they need to be in separate detachments?
Sorry if this is a stupid question.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/01 12:56:52


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


Not a stupid question at all. With the current codex, Nurgle Daemons need to be in their own separate detachment, unless they are summoned via Daemonic Ritual using reinforcement points.


 dan2026 wrote:
Can someone tell me, how do Nurgle Daemons and Death Guard work when combined in the same army?
Do they need to be in separate detachments?
Sorry if this is a stupid question.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/01 14:31:10


Post by: lindsay40k


It’s not a stupid question at all, Chaos is a very broad grand army and the rules for building a soup list have been something of a moving train since 8ed landed.

First up, you’ve got an overall army keyword. If you’re writing a Crusade roster, it’s CHAOS. When you’re playing a game, it’s anything - DG, NURGLE, DAEMON, etc.

If you’re playing GT rules, your detachments all need to have a keyword other than CHAOS. A Patrol consisting of a Plaguecaster and ten Plaguebearers would be a legal NURGLE detachment.

If the Plaguecaster is your Warlord, he unlocks a DG Warlord Trait and Relic. But you don’t get access to either codex’s Stratagems, or any Traits.

If a detachment solely consists of DG, its members gain the DG Legion trait, you gain access to the DG Stratagems, and - with War of the Spider (don’t go out of your way for it - new Codex is coming soon) - you can currently give the detachment a Company trait.

If a detachment consists solely of Nurgle Daemons, its members gain the Nurgle Trait, and you gain access to Chaos Daemons Stratagems.

If I’m playing a Daemonkin list, I usually include a DG detachment, a ND detachment, and a CSM detachment, to maximise my options. Sometimes, some restriction will compel me to make one or two of the detachments a mixed Nurgle detachment; for instance, if all I want from heretic Astartes is Warptime and Blighthaulers.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/01 14:51:30


Post by: dan2026


Ok cheers guys, I think I get it.

So if I have one detachment of Death Guard and one detachment of Nurgle Daemons, both detachments will get acess to their respective traits and strategms.
Then the overall army keyword would be NURGLE.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/01 16:48:20


Post by: Jidmah


Correct. You can also have them mixed in one NURGLE detachment, but you will be denied access to many things, including stratagems, loci and plague fleets.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/02 21:56:31


Post by: lare2


Can someone in the know explain why there's a lot of misery over the new FW rules? Did we lose access to Dreads and whatnot?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/02 23:45:45


Post by: Filthy_Sanchez


As it stands right now, we lost access to everything except the Greater Blight Drone. Of course, things may change with the new codex.

 lare2 wrote:
Can someone in the know explain why there's a lot of misery over the new FW rules? Did we lose access to Dreads and whatnot?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 06:11:40


Post by: Jidmah


Personally, I think that's still up for discussion. You might want to take that to YMDC.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 09:55:59


Post by: wojtekwroc


Hi,

I plan to build DG as my 2nd army. Lack on infantry mobility I would like to compensate with deep strike. I never played with DG or against DG.
I thing to get:
Spoiler:

HQ:
Typhus
2xPlague casters - both plague chosen with buff spells.

Troops:
3x plague marines 5x bolter, 2x melta, champion with fist - each embarked in assault drill, 2 with caster.
3x 10 cultists - they will go next to MBH

Elites:
3x blight lord termos: 4 with axe and combi melta 1 with reaper AC

Fast attack:
3x MBH.

transport: 3 drills

all about 2,5k


When deploying marines and termites I have 18 shots with meltas supported with extra 6 from MBH.

What do you think?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 11:31:15


Post by: Abaddon303


as said above, with the new FW book Death Guard currently don't have access to the drills so i would hold fire on making any purchases until that is clarified...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I only have a contemptor in my DG army, magnetised with options for butcher cannons and fists or one of each.
With butchers gone, what do people think is the best ranged option? Obviously closest comparison is autocannon but they're a bit meh.
I'm thinking I might look to pick up a multi-melta arm and if we don't get access to contemptors back, at least fist and mm is a valid loadout for a helbrute and I'll just run it as that...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 12:01:22


Post by: Jidmah


Abaddon303 wrote:
as said above, with the new FW book Death Guard currently don't have access to the drills so i would hold fire on making any purchases until that is clarified...

That is not exactly true. The new books says to check the CSM codex, and the CSM codex prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD only for datasheets in the codex.
RAW nothing prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD in another book.

This might change when a new Codex: Chaos Space Marines is released, and it feels like their intention was to block DG and TS from using FW stuff not intended for them, so I wouldn't invest in any new resin until this is clarified.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 12:16:45


Post by: wojtekwroc


So I will hold my horses.
Thanks


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 13:13:51


Post by: Abaddon303


 Jidmah wrote:
Abaddon303 wrote:
as said above, with the new FW book Death Guard currently don't have access to the drills so i would hold fire on making any purchases until that is clarified...

That is not exactly true. The new books says to check the CSM codex, and the CSM codex prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD only for datasheets in the codex.
RAW nothing prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD in another book.

This might change when a new Codex: Chaos Space Marines is released, and it feels like their intention was to block DG and TS from using FW stuff not intended for them, so I wouldn't invest in any new resin until this is clarified.


You are of course correct. I do hope this gets corrected, I would normally have said that this is an oversight but the fact the new forgeworld book uses the words 'following the guidance and restrictions' i don't feel particularly confident that this isn't intended. The only restrictions the codex offers is on DG, TS and Fallen. If they didn't want to restrict those keywords explicitly, then that caveat in the Forgeworld book would be completely unnecessary. :(


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 15:32:06


Post by: ninjafiredragon


What are you guys hoping to see with the new book to bring DG back into the light?

I don't think they are bad right now, just seem to be limited by number of options.

I'm hoping for Mortarion buffs. Drop the # of wounds by one so we can use obscuring terrain please.

Thoughts?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 16:00:50


Post by: Abaddon303


I don't want to tempt fate by asking for too much so really I'd probably hope to cling to most of what they gave us in psychic awakening and keeping our 5+++. Just with the extra wound on our marines we'll be looking very solid.

We do have a limited line up, but there's not a huge gaping hole in our lineup, hopefully this new hq mitigates Daemon engines not having core. I can't see us getting any other new units personally.

So really it's all about whether we get some new legion trait and doctrines equivalent which can only really be upside.

Maybe it's because I also play CSM that I'm not in anyway concerned or desperate for a new DG codex? I expect maybe it's in the early lineup because there won't be massive overarching changes and it's largely a copy and paste...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 16:40:30


Post by: Doohicky


I'm hoping for a proper legion trait that affects everything like all other non chaos armies.
At the moment we literally only have 18" rapid fire and no -1 on running with blight launchers. And if we stay still our bolters have a larger threat range anyway since Mv 5. It only really helps with plasma guns.

I would also like some sort of turn by turn bonus like Marines and Necrons have got. No idea what, but an equivalent of some kind.


The biggest reason for wanting these is that if DG don't get them, then that will set the precedent for all Chaos forces, which means nothing will get them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also wondering how things like plagueswords will be handled. Will they stay exact same, or will they get the +1s similar to power weapons.

I am assuming all flamer weapons will go up to 12", but at same time, ours were always a different range so maybe they won't.

I'm really hoping there aren't crazy price rises really. It could be very easy to add too many points for the extra wound, not taking into account that this is already countered by the pretty low damage output compared to marines.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/03 22:51:23


Post by: Jidmah


DG are in a pretty awesome place right now, most of the things they need is housekeeping.
My wishes:

- Plague Marines to 2W
- Plague Marines get virulent rounds, PBC get accelerated entropy and LoC get harbinger of nurgle as stock abilities
- Update all plague weapons according to their imperial counter-parts
- Helbrutes get dread treatment
- Improve heavy blight launcher
- Make Mortarion more interesting, maybe limit the damage he can take per turn
- Summoning rules worth using (for example without range limit)
- Useful legion trait, for all units (except pox walkers and cultists)
- Everything else stays the same


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/04 09:03:04


Post by: wojtekwroc


By the way, are there any lore related shenanigans preventing DG to use assault drills?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/04 09:15:49


Post by: Jidmah


Maybe?
Since Barbarus has been re-created as the Plague Planet inside the warp and is littered with manufactoriums, they can still create much of the gear they had after the heresy. They also still have a functioning fleet since the plague ships re-appear near the plague planet even if they are destroyed or abandoned. Lastly, DG often clear out the crew of marine vehicles through bio-weapons and capture the gear left behind.

However, their vehicles tend to rot and mutate, so if the technology to create drills has disappeared, they might not have any left that didn't turn into piles of rust or giant maggots or something.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/04 12:14:29


Post by: lindsay40k


 Jidmah wrote:
Maybe?
Since Barbarus has been re-created as the Plague Planet inside the warp and is littered with manufactoriums, they can still create much of the gear they had after the heresy. They also still have a functioning fleet since the plague ships re-appear near the plague planet even if they are destroyed or abandoned. Lastly, DG often clear out the crew of marine vehicles through bio-weapons and capture the gear left behind.

However, their vehicles tend to rot and mutate, so if the technology to create drills has disappeared, they might not have any left that didn't turn into piles of rust or giant maggots or something.

Tangentially, a maggot TAD would be an incredible hobby project

Tyrannocyte would be a viable base for it, I’ve used it to make corrupted Dreadclaw and KAC with pleasing results


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/05 07:35:05


Post by: N0tThatGuy


I would Just love some QoL changes and more options. I always found myself playing the same units. They should make like necron and marines codex, where almost everything can be played and has some sort of utility. Also custom plague companies PLS.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/05 08:35:42


Post by: Abaddon303


What secondaries are people having success with? Death guard aren't particularly killy so I tend to not make much headway with the kill secondaries. Engage is good, I was tempted by 'if we stand' but I like to be aggressive with my Daemon Princes and they don't tend to survive all game.
I've been contemplating spending a CP to put a unit of poxwalkers in reserve to walk on in my opponent's dz and score me the tricky part of deploy scramblers. Seems a bit of a waste tho...


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/05 11:12:37


Post by: Jidmah


It's pretty much the same as for everyone.

1) Pick a kill secondary that is likely to rewards at least 12 VP
2) Direct Assault (Sweep and Clear) and Strategic Scan (the Scouring)
3) Grind them down
4) Engage on all fronts/Linebreaker
5) Scramblers


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/05 11:37:44


Post by: Nora


I have reasonably played a few smaller games (500p to 1000p) and my favorite secondary is PSYCHIC RITUAL.
Of course, it is no good if the opponent has a psyker but only run into one so far. I use a defensively buffed prince for it and the mid board is his right place anyway.
One reason that I usually pick this is that I do not have any infantry unit, except 1 unit of cultist and a support character, so the infantry secondaries are not so tempting. Another reason is that it is hard to score high on some of the others, for example the killing ones, due to the low point level.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/05 15:05:57


Post by: dan2026


I wish GW would find a way to combine Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons into one cohesive army. Like they do for the Maggotkin in AoS.

Perhaps some sort of unique rules for a combined armies detachment.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/08 18:59:11


Post by: Castozor


So I know our Codex is right around the corner, but I couldn't wait and got myself a new box of PM´s. Since I don't have a dedicated melee squad yet I was thinking of making one now, but my question is should I go with axes or double knives? I know the flails tend to do the heavy lifting, but I find that just knives is useless in my meta with lots of high T, multiple wounds infantry all over the place.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/08 19:35:21


Post by: Jidmah


Axes, mostly because you can have the DI guys with grenades in their hands count as dual knives or convert them to have two.

In general, I would avoid building any marines from the box into configurations you can find elsewhere for much cheaper.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/09 16:15:53


Post by: Jidmah


All DG forgeworld options with the <LEGION> keyword have been moved to legends. No more drills in tournaments.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/09 16:18:05


Post by: ninjafiredragon


 Jidmah wrote:
All DG forgeworld options with the <LEGION> keyword have been moved to legends. No more drills in tournaments.


That's a shame considering the drills seemed to have been buffed to make them even better.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/09 18:49:42


Post by: Eldarsif


 dan2026 wrote:
I wish GW would find a way to combine Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons into one cohesive army. Like they do for the Maggotkin in AoS.

Perhaps some sort of unique rules for a combined armies detachment.


I agree. Surprised GW hasn't already considering it would help sell more models in the long run.

I am curious if we might see some fundamental DG changes in the coming codex which would allow us to take the FW units again.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/09 19:35:31


Post by: Jidmah


Forgeworld Legends wrote:IMPERIAL ARMOUR COMPENDIUM UNITS IN DEATH
GUARD AND THOUSAND SONS ARMIES
Many units described in the Imperial Armour Compendium,
as well as in this document, can be fielded in Death Guard and
Thousand Sons armies even though you cannot normally replace
the <Legion> keyword with either Death Guard or Thousand Sons.
Such a unit counts as a Legends unit for all purposes.
• You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the
Imperial Armour Compendium or from this document to
be from the Death Guard Legion (excluding Hellforged
Rapier Battery and Chaos Hellwright units). Such units also
gain the Bubonic Astartes keyword and can be from one of
the seven Plague Companies, and so also gain the <Plague
Company> keyword.


I think we can see two spoiler for our upcoming codex here:
1) DG will be Bubonic Astarted, so no more using Heretic Astartes powers for us
2) Plague Companies might be getting more than what we've seen in PA


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 09:14:31


Post by: Dedwoods42


So - the Legends bit has been removed from that document, once again removing our access to FW Compendium units outside of the Greater Blight Drone.

However, the current wording allows us to take any of the Legends CSM stuff the same way the 8th edition FW Index Chaos was FAQd - hopefully they just port that wording over to the Compendium FAQ without the short-lived Legends clause.

As for Bubonic Astartes - that's added to the units *in addition* to Heretic Astartes. I initially thought the same re: losing access to CSM buffs, but we'll have to wait and see.

Plague Companies being more than just a relic, trait and pair of strats has already been heavily rumoured from some playtesters and would be a nice change to give us some options.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 09:21:06


Post by: Jidmah


I'm fairly sure that the idea is the same as what they did when splitting craftworld eldar from drukhari - to prevent unintended cross-codex synergies.

On the upside, they might now be able to add something interesting to Mortarion without having to assume that he makes first turn charges.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 09:29:42


Post by: Nithaniel


I think Jidmah has it right. They are adding bubonic astartes heretic astartes for the FW compendium units. It is logical to assume that deathguard will lose heretic astartes keyword.

I heard a rumour that the Deathguard codex was removing the units that sat across both factions like the defiler. That rumour combined with this change to me implies that DG will lose heretic astartes. Even worse, it could mean that we lose other units like the chaos lord and sorcerer and maybe even a rhino, to be replaced by new models. We might even lose contaminated monstrosity as there won't be anything to play it on.

I'm totally gutted by this though, my deredeo's, leviathan , spartan, drill and more all have no more use in competitive play. I'm at aa loss as what to do with them. Maybe repurpose them as the purge is what my buddies are suggesting. Anyone else confused and pissed off by this change?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 09:30:50


Post by: Jidmah


Is there a source for that rumor?

Removing rhinos and defilers wouldn't make any sense at all.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 09:39:22


Post by: Nithaniel


I heard it mentioned in passing on a podcast I listened to recently. I think it was either Chapter tactics or In the finest hour. There was also some rumblings about this happening a long time ago on reddit. Rumours are what they are so consider it unlikely but the idea was that GW wanted to move DG and 1ksons into fully fleshed out factions independent of the csm dex.

I agree on rhino's. They could easily just create a separate datasheet at a higher cost and with disgustingly resilient built in.

I expect this FW change to be a big sign of that. If it comes with all new models i'll be ok with losing my existing ones.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 09:54:38


Post by: Jidmah


Eh. Not a fan of having units invalidated so shortly after getting them.


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 10:11:38


Post by: Nithaniel


I know I'm looking at my 3 defilers and my drill which was pretty much finished days before the FW leak. This is a real kick in the teeth for me.

But rumours are probably not true. We're probably days away from some juicy DG leaks so solidly into wishlisting territory.

I want a new daemon engine model and I expect some Forgeworld treatment from new models to make up for this loss.

Is there any play with a greater blight drone, I've never looked at it before?


Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed @ 2020/11/10 10:20:08


Post by: Jidmah


Well, it's essentially a side-grade to a heavy blight launcher drone with nurgle's gift for some reason. Not impressed.