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Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 09:23:19


Post by: mrFickle


The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 09:42:00


Post by: tneva82


Master race vs npc race


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 09:43:10


Post by: Jidmah


Oh, they can keep their ork rules. Whenever they add anything through white dwarf, you can use it in any of your games. EXCEPT ork rules, those are always open play only which is essentially the same as them never having printed them in the first place.

So, for what I care, the might just as well print yet another Space Marine chapter that actually makes someone happy rather than ork rules that we are forbidden from using in matched play games.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 09:54:51


Post by: Breton


mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


There are things they could have put in a White Dwarf for SM armies that would have been nice. An entire new Chapter subfaction isn't it. A couple DA/WS Dets for RW/Scars Bikers onlyish, DW only, and RW and DW. A custom Det for Wild Riders. There are a number of armies that could add a lot of variety with this non-standard companies/regiments/Klans/<Keyword> approach that would increase variety without overburdening store shelves. I mean sure, painting the marines green and giving them flame throwers or painting them darker green and giving them plasma is a little variety, but you're still usually looking at a dozen units with 40-50 ground pounders and a half dozen of the same 8 or 9 vehicles. Replacing them with 30 bikers is even more variety.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 09:59:11


Post by: Dudeface


mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


They're likely a reprint from the stuff in conquest to stop people having obscure rules, hardly worth being butthurt over.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:02:37


Post by: Dysartes


mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It's a tie-in for those who picked up the Conquest series and painted their Marines as the featured army - did it need to happen? Probably not, but it's a bit of a way of acknowledging those who may have started the game with the magazine series and now have an army of Silver Templars.

20 pages is a bit excessive, once you factor in the Paint Splatter article and the Studio gallery, I'll give you that, but there is a lot of other 40k content in this issue of WD. The people who might have grounds to complain about it existing are the AOS fans, who only seem to get one article in the issue.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:04:39


Post by: a_typical_hero


mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines
Don't worry friend, I've got great news for you!

Pages 16-69 will not revolve around Silver Templars but 40k in general or as a directed tie in with the new edition!


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:04:42


Post by: Dudeface


 Dysartes wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It's a tie-in for those who picked up the Conquest series and painted their Marines as the featured army - did it need to happen? Probably not, but it's a bit of a way of acknowledging those who may have started the game with the magazine series and now have an army of Silver Templars.

20 pages is a bit excessive, once you factor in the Paint Splatter article and the Studio gallery, I'll give you that, but there is a lot of other 40k content in this issue of WD. The people who might have grounds to complain about it existing are the AOS fans, who only seem to get one article in the issue.


This was likely intended to be the issue that dropped around indomitus, so it makes sense it's very 40k centric for an edition launch.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:16:00


Post by: vipoid


mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:37:13


Post by: Dudeface


 vipoid wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


I know, if only they would overhaul a xenos faction, include them and a core box set and give them huge model support. That never happens.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:43:58


Post by: BrianDavion


Guys white dwarf isn't where they're going to over haul Xenos. or at least given the monthly nature of it, it shouldn't be, White Dwarf is where we SHOULD get fluff for stuff like this, on minor little explored chapters etc. We DID get a WD 'dex on Goffs fairly recently (about 2 months back IIRC. and last months issue was pretty 40k lite IIRC).

this is fluff for a new chapter they developed for the conquest magazine, something not avaliable outside of the UK and a few other select areas so it's pretty low cost for them to develop I suspect. (as someone in North America I'm curious to know more about an Ultima founding chapter) I garentee you that all these "new rules" are going to be as new as the blood ravens chapter rules. a preview of some of the new options in the upcoming Marine 'dex.



Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 10:51:10


Post by: Karol


I wonder what their warlord traits and relics do. In general a smart thing to do. A primaris chapter geting highlights is a cool thing. Hope WD are going to have more things like that.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 11:23:07


Post by: vipoid


Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


I know, if only they would overhaul a xenos faction, include them and a core box set and give them huge model support. That never happens.
#

Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Necron players were crying out for, it's a load of new models that were dead on arrival.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 11:28:02


Post by: Dudeface


 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


I know, if only they would overhaul a xenos faction, include them and a core box set and give them huge model support. That never happens.
#

Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Necron players were crying out for, it's a load of new models that were dead on arrival.


Oh good you've got the new codex then, what are the void dragons stats please?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 13:14:31


Post by: vipoid


Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


I know, if only they would overhaul a xenos faction, include them and a core box set and give them huge model support. That never happens.
#

Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Necron players were crying out for, it's a load of new models that were dead on arrival.


Oh good you've got the new codex then, what are the void dragons stats please?


You're the one who's saying that xenos are getting love, so why don't you tell me what amazing rules Necron players can look forward to.

Perhaps while you're at it, you could tell me how many HQs DE are getting this year. Or how many of the ancient eldar sculpts are being updated.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 13:33:39


Post by: Dudeface


 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


I know, if only they would overhaul a xenos faction, include them and a core box set and give them huge model support. That never happens.
#

Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Necron players were crying out for, it's a load of new models that were dead on arrival.


Oh good you've got the new codex then, what are the void dragons stats please?


You're the one who's saying that xenos are getting love, so why don't you tell me what amazing rules Necron players can look forward to.

Perhaps while you're at it, you could tell me how many HQs DE are getting this year. Or how many of the ancient eldar sculpts are being updated.


We know they're getting new "protocol codes", redesigned dynastic traits, diy dynasties and crusade content and a massive wave of models. Yet you've choose to whine like no xenos army ever gets anything. DE get at least 1 hq, its been in the launch preview.

I appreciate the stroppy response from you being pulled up on spouting hyperbolic statements like "army doesn't need more dead on arrival units that nobody knows the rules for".


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 13:44:51


Post by: Platuan4th


Karol wrote:
I wonder what their warlord traits and relics do. In general a smart thing to do. A primaris chapter geting highlights is a cool thing. Hope WD are going to have more things like that.


Ask people that already own the supplement from Conquest. I doubt they're going to be much different other than updating them for 9th rules conventions. This is just a way to update that without printing an entire new version of an exclusive booklet.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 17:44:38


Post by: Racerguy180


 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines


It was getting boring last year, where GW were vomiting SM supplements from one orifice, and crapping out new primaris models from the other.

At this point, we seem to be playing 30k but with worse rules.


I know, if only they would overhaul a xenos faction, include them and a core box set and give them huge model support. That never happens.
#

Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Necron players were crying out for, it's a load of new models that were dead on arrival.


Oh good you've got the new codex then, what are the void dragons stats please?


You're the one who's saying that xenos are getting love, so why don't you tell me what amazing rules Necron players can look forward to.

Perhaps while you're at it, you could tell me how many HQs DE are getting this year. Or how many of the ancient eldar sculpts are being updated.


umm the new Necron models are excellent, but i guess that isn't enuff.
Lilith Hesperax is coming shortly soo....that's at least 1
Eldar got a new psyker last year soo....
it may not be enuff, but its something


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 17:54:06


Post by: Bosskelot


It would be nice if the Index articles could be as varied as their AoS equivalents. I think there have only been 2 Stormcast focused ones since they've been doing them, whereas on the 40k side of things it's just been overwhelmingly Marines (or Imperium in general if you want to complain about Assassins and Inquisition)

I think what's slightly more annoying/disappointing is that all of the AoS ones have come with rules that are also usable in Matched Play games, whereas even some of the Marine stuff has lacked any sort of rule or game component, or in the case of the Goffs one it couldn't be used in Matched Play. In general it feels like there's been more effort put into the AoS articles of this type just on average, whereas some of the 40k stuff has swung wildly in how much effort was put into it.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 17:59:40


Post by: Wayniac


Probably it's so there are not Conquest exclusive rules that nobody can get. I know I actually really liked that chapter but the Conquest book wasn't available in North America.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:00:04


Post by: vipoid


Racerguy180 wrote:

umm the new Necron models are excellent, but i guess that isn't enuff.


Because the models are mostly fine, but the rules so far are absolute gak.

And since the primary problem with Necrons is bad rules, you'll forgive me if my enthusiasm is thus far restrained.


Racerguy180 wrote:

Lilith Hesperax is coming shortly soo....that's at least 1


No, that's zero. Because I said *new* HQ choices. You know, to maybe start replacing the dozen or so that have been removed from the codex.

Yet another remake of an existing HQ is absolutely not the same thing.

Seriously, how is this a difficult concept to grasp?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:07:01


Post by: Jidmah


BrianDavion wrote:
We DID get a WD 'dex on Goffs fairly recently (about 2 months back IIRC. and last months issue was pretty 40k lite IIRC).

Except that unlike other WD codices, those goff rules were open play only and lacked points, essentially banning them for play for almost all applications unless you face an opponent who would also have allowed you to field self-written rules. I haven't even bothered to buy the issue.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:16:05


Post by: Lord Damocles


Wayniac wrote:
Probably it's so there are not Conquest exclusive rules that nobody can get. I know I actually really liked that chapter but the Conquest book wasn't available in North America.

That doesn't seem to have troubled them with the Conquest-exclusive variant dataslates or the stratagems...


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:21:05


Post by: Jidmah


 Lord Damocles wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Probably it's so there are not Conquest exclusive rules that nobody can get. I know I actually really liked that chapter but the Conquest book wasn't available in North America.

That doesn't seem to have troubled them with the Conquest-exclusive variant dataslates or the stratagems...


None of those can be used in regular games though.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:26:09


Post by: Dudeface


vipoid wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:

umm the new Necron models are excellent, but i guess that isn't enuff.


Because the models are mostly fine, but the rules so far are absolute gak.

And since the primary problem with Necrons is bad rules, you'll forgive me if my enthusiasm is thus far restrained.


Racerguy180 wrote:

Lilith Hesperax is coming shortly soo....that's at least 1


No, that's zero. Because I said *new* HQ choices. You know, to maybe start replacing the dozen or so that have been removed from the codex.

Yet another remake of an existing HQ is absolutely not the same thing.

Seriously, how is this a difficult concept to grasp?


You did not.

vipoid wrote:

You're the one who's saying that xenos are getting love, so why don't you tell me what amazing rules Necron players can look forward to.

Perhaps while you're at it, you could tell me how many HQs DE are getting this year. Or how many of the ancient eldar sculpts are being updated.


You didn't specify new, to exclude anything etc. You keep digging a hole based on your irrational lashings out.

Xenos isn't a codex, they're a group of independent factions. They don't just "update xenos" they update a faction. Necrons are getting an update. Marines are getting an update. That's 1 imperial and 1 xenos faction.

You've seen nothing of the new cron codex beyond a few changed assembly instructions which have no special rules and no points.

The marine chapter in white dwarf is an update/republish of hard to find rules and is a fair use of pages. Suck it up.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:35:54


Post by: Racerguy180


 vipoid wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:

umm the new Necron models are excellent, but i guess that isn't enuff.


Because the models are mostly fine, but the rules so far are absolute gak.

And since the primary problem with Necrons is bad rules, you'll forgive me if my enthusiasm is thus far restrained.


Racerguy180 wrote:

Lilith Hesperax is coming shortly soo....that's at least 1


No, that's zero. Because I said *new* HQ choices. You know, to maybe start replacing the dozen or so that have been removed from the codex.

Yet another remake of an existing HQ is absolutely not the same thing.

Seriously, how is this a difficult concept to grasp?


the old necron models look like gak so....its a step in the right direction.
sorry, I didnt know we were exclusively talking about rules? but i guess that's all that matters.

As for DE, I guess they do "need" models or are we talking about rules? or both?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:40:00


Post by: Sumilidon


What else are they going to put in a white dwarf? That isn’t readily available on YouTube?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:48:17


Post by: Dudeface


Sumilidon wrote:
What else are they going to put in a white dwarf? That isn’t readily available on YouTube?


Apparently rules for 10 dark eldar hqs (new ones so we can't have vect for example as he's technically not new), a whole new xenos range and a nerf to marines to make all their stats 1 and cost 50 points per model.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 18:53:02


Post by: Racerguy180


Dudeface wrote:
Sumilidon wrote:
What else are they going to put in a white dwarf? That isn’t readily available on YouTube?


Apparently rules for 10 dark eldar hqs (new ones so we can't have vect for example as he's technically not new), a whole new xenos range and a nerf to marines to make all their stats 1 and cost 50 points per model.


sssshhhhhh, your gonna give them ideas.

New thing from GW,

Points values in WD(to help flagging WD sales) but you'll still need the actual codex for everything else.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 19:49:51


Post by: vipoid


Racerguy180 wrote:

the old necron models look like gak so....its a step in the right direction.


Eh, agree to disagree on that one.

I much prefer the old style. I liked the simplicity of the old Necron Lord for example, rather than the gaudy Overlord or the machines-piloting-machines nonsense of the vehicles.

I think a lot of the new Necron models are nice in terms of being decent sculpts, I just wish they weren't so 'blinged out'. It's why my favourites of the newer ones tend to be stuff like Immortals and Deathmarks.


Racerguy180 wrote:

sorry, I didnt know we were exclusively talking about rules? but i guess that's all that matters.

As for DE, I guess they do "need" models or are we talking about rules? or both?


Well speaking personally, I'd be more than happy to have a lot of new rules (including new HQs), even if we got no new models.

It's a lot easier to convert models to fit rules than to homebrew rules for units/wargear that no longer exists and trying to convince people to let me use said rules.

Unfortunately, that's not the way GW works, so I'm forced to ask for new models as well, because they've decided that that's the only way to get new rules.

Does that make sense?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/05 21:06:33


Post by: BrianDavion


 Jidmah wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
We DID get a WD 'dex on Goffs fairly recently (about 2 months back IIRC. and last months issue was pretty 40k lite IIRC).

Except that unlike other WD codices, those goff rules were open play only and lacked points, essentially banning them for play for almost all applications unless you face an opponent who would also have allowed you to field self-written rules. I haven't even bothered to buy the issue.


Actually Jidmah, Space Wolves and Dark Angels when they got a Index Astartes article also didn't get any rules save some open play narrative stratigiums. Goffs like DA and SWs are eistablished factions with their rules in a codex. Hence their lack of rules beyond some narrative stuff.

Regarding Orks specificly, Orks basicly are limited in that they have only a handful of klans and basicly there aren't anymore, GW made a mistake in making the chapter tactic equivilant klans In my opinion as there's no realy room, without a retcon to add more (the sub cultures thing was GW attempting to sort of do so) If I was in charge of doing a orks 9th edition codex I'd push to remove Klan rules, and insteadreplace them with "Waagh rules" making the defacto Ork subfactions "waaghs" rather then klans.

just makes more sense to me


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 00:11:13


Post by: Catulle


 Platuan4th wrote:
Karol wrote:
I wonder what their warlord traits and relics do. In general a smart thing to do. A primaris chapter geting highlights is a cool thing. Hope WD are going to have more things like that.


Ask people that already own the supplement from Conquest. I doubt they're going to be much different other than updating them for 9th rules conventions. This is just a way to update that without printing an entire new version of an exclusive booklet.


I mean, I reckon the marine oversaturation (and tendency to paint them a shade too heroic-and-not-in-the-Ancient-Greek-sense) is tiresome, but making the Conquest background and rules stuff easier to access can only be a good thing IMO.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 10:32:55


Post by: Not Online!!!


mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines





But why bother making an actual investment when Copy and paste yields more money...
what do you mean there are only SM players left .


Ok jokes aside, i fully expect GW at some point when sm just don't pull anymore and all other factions sales have broken away, will innovate some of these factions back in/ expand upon, but until then, gw is using C&P to max profits for little investment.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 10:47:30


Post by: Dudeface


Not Online!!! wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
The new white dwarf will have an index for another space marine chapter. It’s getting a bit boring now isn’t it? They could have used that space to add a bit more characters to the game, a new eldar faction, some new ork rules, new renegades and heretics index. I dunno anything other than more space marines





But why bother making an actual investment when Copy and paste yields more money...
what do you mean there are only SM players left .


Ok jokes aside, i fully expect GW at some point when sm just don't pull anymore and all other factions sales have broken away, will innovate some of these factions back in/ expand upon, but until then, gw is using C&P to max profits for little investment.


It's just a white dwarf with a republish/update of hard to find rules, hardly milking the cash cow.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 12:00:57


Post by: vipoid


Dudeface wrote:
It's just a white dwarf with a republish/update of hard to find rules, hardly milking the cash cow.


In most past editions, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye.

However, we spent almost the entirety of 8th watching a deluge of new marine models and new marine supplements. Even when other factions were given a tiny crumb, it was generally drowned out with more marine stuff.

Even in terms of the factions that did get more attention, just look at the 2.0 Chaos codex compared to the 2.0 Marine one, which was released just a month or so later and completely eclipsed the Chaos one.

And then we had Psychic Awakening, which came across as nothing more than yet more Marine supplements, thinly disguised as a campaign.

And bear in mind that this was being done even while other factions had been removed entirely. Corsairs no longer existed as a faction, but who cares when we can have even more Muhreens!

But that was all in 8th edition, right? Surely, after years of Marine-centred releases, 9th will finally start helping those factions that have been left to rot for years?

Well, the trailer of the new Necron models was 'Oh, yeah, there are some new Necrons but don't worry they're only a threat to guardsmen - Marines will just effortlessly blow them away.'

Wow, I'm really hyped now. Boy, they really showcased the threat Necrons pose to legless toddlers.

And after that, naturally the obvious way to start a new edition is to buff Marines and all their weapons (just in case anyone thought Necrons might pose even a minor threat to them). But in spite of the fact that many such weapons are also used by other factions, those other factions will have to wait months or even years for their own codices in order to use the updated profiles. And the non-Imperial factions are basically left with zero expectation of getting anything.

Do you maybe see why some of us are just completely fed up seeing more Marine stuff at this point?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 12:15:00


Post by: Dudeface


 vipoid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
It's just a white dwarf with a republish/update of hard to find rules, hardly milking the cash cow.


In most past editions, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye.

However, we spent almost the entirety of 8th watching a deluge of new marine models and new marine supplements. Even when other factions were given a tiny crumb, it was generally drowned out with more marine stuff.

Even in terms of the factions that did get more attention, just look at the 2.0 Chaos codex compared to the 2.0 Marine one, which was released just a month or so later and completely eclipsed the Chaos one.

And then we had Psychic Awakening, which came across as nothing more than yet more Marine supplements, thinly disguised as a campaign.

And bear in mind that this was being done even while other factions had been removed entirely. Corsairs no longer existed as a faction, but who cares when we can have even more Muhreens!

But that was all in 8th edition, right? Surely, after years of Marine-centred releases, 9th will finally start helping those factions that have been left to rot for years?

Well, the trailer of the new Necron models was 'Oh, yeah, there are some new Necrons but don't worry they're only a threat to guardsmen - Marines will just effortlessly blow them away.'

Wow, I'm really hyped now. Boy, they really showcased the threat Necrons pose to legless toddlers.

And after that, naturally the obvious way to start a new edition is to buff Marines and all their weapons (just in case anyone thought Necrons might pose even a minor threat to them). But in spite of the fact that many such weapons are also used by other factions, those other factions will have to wait months or even years for their own codices in order to use the updated profiles. And the non-Imperial factions are basically left with zero expectation of getting anything.

Do you maybe see why some of us are just completely fed up seeing more Marine stuff at this point?


Frankly, no. It's barely any different to how it's always historically been. It was obvious psychic awakening was used to start integrating the chapters back into codex space marines a little and is actually a great piece of evidence why the new codex is actually a step in the right direction.

Space marines in 8th had 2 waves of models in 3 years. Oh the injustice, how can anyone possibly play the game when a faction they don't care about gets releases they don't need to buy.

Nitpicking but chaos 2.0 and marines codex are actually 2 separate concepts, the marines one is a total rewrite, the chaos was simply a gathering of additional rules reprinted together.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 12:46:35


Post by: Karol


But didn't chaos get multiple waves of models too? They got all the new GD, new basic level characters and then new havocks, and all the stuff in blackstone fortress. Comparing to lets say orcs or necron they got a huge model update in 8th ed.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 13:15:09


Post by: Dudeface


Karol wrote:
But didn't chaos get multiple waves of models too? They got all the new GD, new basic level characters and then new havocks, and all the stuff in blackstone fortress. Comparing to lets say orcs or necron they got a huge model update in 8th ed.


Chaos daemons got 2 waves, chaos marines got 1, chaos knights got a kit but then they didn't really exist fully before. Death guard are a new range from scratch.

Of course that doesn't matter because primaris marines were the faction with the most kits so everyone has to whine.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 13:23:32


Post by: Not Online!!!


Dudeface wrote:
Karol wrote:
But didn't chaos get multiple waves of models too? They got all the new GD, new basic level characters and then new havocks, and all the stuff in blackstone fortress. Comparing to lets say orcs or necron they got a huge model update in 8th ed.


Chaos daemons got 2 waves, chaos marines got 1, chaos knights got a kit but then they didn't really exist fully before. Death guard are a new range from scratch.

Of course that doesn't matter because primaris marines were the faction with the most kits so everyone has to whine.


i believe someone has made the maths, the whole of chaos, has about (and mind you we had a complete revamp of basic dudes for CSM, not to mention the 2 daemon waves) not even close to marines. A whole "superfaction" compared to 1 codex.
And that is without even going into Xenos. And you expect people to be happy?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 13:41:31


Post by: Dudeface


Not Online!!! wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Karol wrote:
But didn't chaos get multiple waves of models too? They got all the new GD, new basic level characters and then new havocks, and all the stuff in blackstone fortress. Comparing to lets say orcs or necron they got a huge model update in 8th ed.


Chaos daemons got 2 waves, chaos marines got 1, chaos knights got a kit but then they didn't really exist fully before. Death guard are a new range from scratch.

Of course that doesn't matter because primaris marines were the faction with the most kits so everyone has to whine.


i believe someone has made the maths, the whole of chaos, has about (and mind you we had a complete revamp of basic dudes for CSM, not to mention the 2 daemon waves) not even close to marines. A whole "superfaction" compared to 1 codex.
And that is without even going into Xenos. And you expect people to be happy?


I expect people to not care, I expect most people don't want to be endlessly forking out for £32.50 boxes of 5-10 models because they got a new kit every week, but ofc if they're not "competitively viable" they might as well not bother as proven in this thread.

I don't like apple products, I'm fed up of them being released constantly, I'm fed up of people hyping them much like people are with marines. I deal with this by ignoring them, not buying them and not trawling tech forums to complain.

Same apllies here, it sucks not all armies got equal amounts of releases, but at the end of the day that means someone saved money. If someone desperately MUST have new aspect warriors or w/e and is in dire need of shelling hundreds of whatever currency to do it, then I don't think the marines are the problem.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 14:06:11


Post by: harlokin


Dudeface wrote:

I don't like apple products, I'm fed up of them being released constantly, I'm fed up of people hyping them much like people are with marines. I deal with this by ignoring them, not buying them and not trawling tech forums to complain.


That is a false analogy. This would be akin to buying an Apple product, but the company not bothering to release any apps for your particular version.

Dudeface wrote:

Same apllies here, it sucks not all armies got equal amounts of releases, but at the end of the day that means someone saved money. If someone desperately MUST have new aspect warriors or w/e and is in dire need of shelling hundreds of whatever currency to do it, then I don't think the marines are the problem.


Lolwut? We want new shiny things for our factions because we enjoy this hobby. We could save even more by not fething playing at all, but that's not the point.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 14:25:47


Post by: Dudeface


 harlokin wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

I don't like apple products, I'm fed up of them being released constantly, I'm fed up of people hyping them much like people are with marines. I deal with this by ignoring them, not buying them and not trawling tech forums to complain.


That is a false analogy. This would be akin to buying an Apple product, but the company not bothering to release any apps for your particular version.

Dudeface wrote:

Same apllies here, it sucks not all armies got equal amounts of releases, but at the end of the day that means someone saved money. If someone desperately MUST have new aspect warriors or w/e and is in dire need of shelling hundreds of whatever currency to do it, then I don't think the marines are the problem.


Lolwut? We want new shiny things for our factions because we enjoy this hobby. We could save even more by not fething playing at all, but that's not the point.


People do want shiny new things for their faction because they care, I agree, but how many new things? How often? How many boxes of banshees do you think they've shifted as a good example because I'd hazard it isnt many.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 14:31:36


Post by: harlokin


For me, over the next couple of years I'd like a couple of new Drukhari characters, a couple of new units, and the finecast stuff redone in plastic. It feels like an unreasonable expectation at this point.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 14:35:30


Post by: Dudeface


 harlokin wrote:
For me, over the next couple of years I'd like a couple of new Drukhari characters, a couple of new units, and the finecast stuff redone in plastic. It feels like an unreasonable expectation at this point.


I'd say that's a reasonable expectation, if dark eldar get a wave of releases that lines up with about what should be in it. It's about time they got one and did away with finecast.

I'd also argue its better those are done in 1 release rather than trickled.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 18:53:24


Post by: yukishiro1


I dunno why people are surprised. If someone does the same thing over and over and over again, you should probably assume they'll just keep doing it, not that the fact they've done it 10 times in a row means that THIS TIME they'll definitely do something else instead.

Don't get me wrong, GW will release non-Space Marine stuff someday. But it's never going to be more than an afterthought, or the other half of a release box, or something along those lines. For the last several years GW has released more SM kits than kits for every other faction combined, and there's no reason to think that's going to change much, because more people play SM than every other faction combined.

Space Marines are the main faction and if you're not playing them you're scrounging for leftovers. It's just the way it is.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 19:44:44


Post by: Karol


 harlokin wrote:

Lolwut? We want new shiny things for our factions because we enjoy this hobby. We could save even more by not fething playing at all, but that's not the point.


yet when new banshees or incubi come out, they have no where near the sells a new marine kit has. Even if neither unit is a power house.

GW would have to be stupid to not focus on marines more.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 19:59:04


Post by: Arbitrator


Dudeface wrote:
Karol wrote:
But didn't chaos get multiple waves of models too? They got all the new GD, new basic level characters and then new havocks, and all the stuff in blackstone fortress. Comparing to lets say orcs or necron they got a huge model update in 8th ed.


Chaos daemons got 2 waves, chaos marines got 1, chaos knights got a kit but then they didn't really exist fully before. Death guard are a new range from scratch.

Of course that doesn't matter because primaris marines were the faction with the most kits so everyone has to whine.

Are people really still using the 'b-b-but Chaos is one army' excuse?

If we're counting all the Chaos stuff as one army release, we should be throwing Imperial Knights, Custodes, Sisters and Admech's new stuff in with Marines too.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 20:00:35


Post by: Kithail


Xenos players are always asking for new releases but when they get them it seems noone is buying them. PA got new banshees and people are saying they wouldn't buy them because they are ugly and expensive. Same happened with incubi. "I prefer the old ones" was a REALLY common expression on these boards. But then there is a LOT of complaints about not getting new stuff


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 20:07:05


Post by: Arbitrator


 Kithail wrote:
Xenos players are always asking for new releases but when they get them it seems noone is buying them. PA got new banshees and people are saying they wouldn't buy them because they are ugly and expensive. Same happened with incubi. "I prefer the old ones" was a REALLY common expression on these boards. But then there is a LOT of complaints about not getting new stuff

No, most of the complaints were that Blood of the Phoenix was a crappy deal, because the savings on the box didn't make up for receiving so many ancient/redundant kits in it. I saw almost zero complaints about the actual new kits - the Incubi kit is almost identical in sculpt to the previous version - only that people would wait for the standalones.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 20:07:21


Post by: Eonfuzz


Good to see the tinnies are out in force in this thread.
From lumping every-not-marine-faction as one faction, to psychic awakening was good for everyone because it existed to unify marine chapters. This head in the sand, I got yours so go eat gak logic is hilarious, especially this guy who cried wolf for years lmao.

Karol wrote:
 harlokin wrote:

Lolwut? We want new shiny things for our factions because we enjoy this hobby. We could save even more by not fething playing at all, but that's not the point.


yet when new banshees or incubi come out, they have no where near the sells a new marine kit has. Even if neither unit is a power house.

GW would have to be stupid to not focus on marines more.


Grey Knights don't sell, they should've been left in the dust?

Let me reiterate several points. Chaos is not xenos, xenos is not a faction. Most players that play a xenos faction have only seen one or none new sculpts over the last 4 years (some even longer!).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kithail wrote:
Xenos players are always asking for new releases but when they get them it seems noone is buying them. PA got new banshees and people are saying they wouldn't buy them because they are ugly and expensive. Same happened with incubi. "I prefer the old ones" was a REALLY common expression on these boards. But then there is a LOT of complaints about not getting new stuff


Totally false, unless there's a section of this forum that I'm unaware of. The common sentiment was the box is gak, and used to push old, overpriced plastic.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 20:31:08


Post by: Dudeface


 Eonfuzz wrote:
Good to see the tinnies are out in force in this thread.
From lumping every-not-marine-faction as one faction, to psychic awakening was good for everyone because it existed to unify marine chapters. This head in the sand, I got yours so go eat gak logic is hilarious, especially this guy who cried wolf for years lmao.

Karol wrote:
 harlokin wrote:

Lolwut? We want new shiny things for our factions because we enjoy this hobby. We could save even more by not fething playing at all, but that's not the point.


yet when new banshees or incubi come out, they have no where near the sells a new marine kit has. Even if neither unit is a power house.

GW would have to be stupid to not focus on marines more.


Grey Knights don't sell, they should've been left in the dust?

Let me reiterate several points. Chaos is not xenos, xenos is not a faction. Most players that play a xenos faction have only seen one or none new sculpts over the last 4 years (some even longer!).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kithail wrote:
Xenos players are always asking for new releases but when they get them it seems noone is buying them. PA got new banshees and people are saying they wouldn't buy them because they are ugly and expensive. Same happened with incubi. "I prefer the old ones" was a REALLY common expression on these boards. But then there is a LOT of complaints about not getting new stuff


Totally false, unless there's a section of this forum that I'm unaware of. The common sentiment was the box is gak, and used to push old, overpriced plastic.


Chaos is not xenos, chaos is not a faction. Not sure what your point is with that one?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 21:42:14


Post by: vipoid


 Kithail wrote:
Xenos players are always asking for new releases but when they get them it seems noone is buying them. PA got new banshees and people are saying they wouldn't buy them because they are ugly and expensive. Same happened with incubi. "I prefer the old ones" was a REALLY common expression on these boards. But then there is a LOT of complaints about not getting new stuff


You do realise that many xeno players have asked for specific releases, right?

As opposed to 'please, GW, we'll buy any garbage you throw us, regardless of necessity or quality.'


Let me give you an example - Dark Eldar players have indeed been asking for new releases for years. Would you like me to give you a brief summary of the requests made by myself and others?
- Mobility options for HQs (Skyboard, Jetbike and/or wings)
- Wargear options for HQs (really shouldn't need new models, but unfortunately GW still has its head up its arse over things like this)
- New HQs (or old ones brought back) - e.g. Mandrake HQ, Scourge HQ, Dracon, Lesser Haemonculus (or Haemonculus Ancient, depending what you class the current one as)
- Return of special characters, most notably Vect
- Plastic Grotesques
Bear in mind also that DE have lost something like 12 HQ options and 3 Elite choices over the years, but the only things they've had in the last decade have been remakes of existing models.

Anyway, whilst Drazhar's model was ancient, I think it's fair to say that very few DE players would have considered a new one to be a priority over any of the above. Same goes for Incubi. So we're not exactly off to a good start.

However, GW then decided to package those models into a box-set that was filled with crap no one wanted. The fact that Drazhar or his Incubi would have to walk, because the only transport doesn't have enough spaces for both, should give you an idea of how little thought or effort went into it. And the fact that included Hellions is testament to the fact that they were just trying to clear their shelves.

And if you wanted more than 5 Incubi (or 5 Banshees for Eldar), then you had to buy the entire heap of overpriced crap again, including a pair of now-redundant special characters.

Also, let's not forget the additional insult wherein Phoenix Rising (the set Blood of the Phoenix was tied to) was just a middle-finger to DE and Ynnari players. The former were treated to custom subfaction rules . . . and absolutely nothing else. The latter were treated to a reprint of the WD rules with none of the massive flaws corrected. Not only that, but the 2 characters in the box set were both unusable in Ynnari (as in, you're literally not allowed to take them), and in spite of Banshees supposedly having a Ynnari version as well as a Craftworld version, this was not supported in any way in the actual rules.

Man, I can't imagine why Blood of the Phoenix sets weren't flying off the shelves.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 21:44:43


Post by: yukishiro1


Yeah, the "you didn't buy the complete junk GW shoveled at CWE and DE, now all Xenos don't get to complain when it's all Space Marines, all the time!" argument is spectacularly weak.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 21:45:50


Post by: Not Online!!!


Considering for 10 banshees one also can buy a whole Starter box... I do indeed wonder why they don't sell, especially considering that the banshees were still decent looking even in Metal...

It's also funny considering how gw treated corsairs, or Tau which to this Day didn't get their kroot auxillia, much less any auxiliar updated since the plastic kroot i believe?
Ya know the whole greater good theme...

Nids have probably the best Lineup Model wise of all Xeno factions now if only the rules were writen with actual care...


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 21:53:39


Post by: Super Ready


I'd argue that part of the reason GW's more recent Xenos offerings haven't been taken up is because they've been so meager.
This has a two-fold effect:

- older players are put off either from continuing to support the company, or from attempting to keep their Xenos army going, having switched to Marines in the meantime.
- newer players see an ancient range with one or two new units, think "nah that's not for me", and keep playing Marines anyway.

GW are themselves the reason that "nobody" is buying Banshees or Incubi! Necrons stand to do much better now that they have the starter box force and an entire new wave of models on the way. Just look at how Death Guard did. They went from being just another option in the Chaos Codex that translated to maybe a unit or two in a wider army, to having players field entire armies of them - and it's because they got proper backing. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Guard, etc could all benefit from that same kind of attention.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 21:56:02


Post by: Not Online!!!


Just one thing, those are investments , unlike minimalistic CAD coppy Paste , and investments cost money.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 22:01:41


Post by: posermcbogus


Yeah, I was hyped for new Incubi, until I realized that for the price of 10, I could buy an entire Perfect Grade Gundam. GW throws one of the most neglected factions in the entire community a game, after about 5 years of nothing, and it's just monstrously overpriced.

Who even plays fething silver templars?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 22:07:39


Post by: vipoid


Not Online!!! wrote:

Nids have probably the best Lineup Model wise of all Xeno factions now if only the rules were writen with actual care...


I mean, I think rules could solve an awful lot of the current issues with Xenos.

For example, whilst models would obviously be the ideal, I'm sure most DE players would prefer to at least have rules for more HQ options and wargear, since that way they can at least convert their own versions in the meantime.

Hell, it seems like something that could even benefit GW - as they could give some love to xeno factions with minimal investment in new kits. And said xeno players would likely buy mostly GW kits to convert into the model-less HQs/special characters.

But no, because apparently GW HQ is built on a leaky gas main.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 22:08:06


Post by: Not Online!!!


 posermcbogus wrote:
Yeah, I was hyped for new Incubi, until I realized that for the price of 10, I could buy an entire Perfect Grade Gundam. GW throws one of the most neglected factions in the entire community a game, after about 5 years of nothing, and it's just monstrously overpriced.

Who even plays fething silver templars?

I dunno , i saw more fw armies then them ...

But ya know those later ones weren't even valid for a bone throw either....

So i don't know.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 vipoid wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Nids have probably the best Lineup Model wise of all Xeno factions now if only the rules were writen with actual care...


I mean, I think rules could solve an awful lot of the current issues with Xenos.

For example, whilst models would obviously be the ideal, I'm sure most DE players would prefer to at least have rules for more HQ options and wargear, since that way they can at least convert their own versions in the meantime.

Hell, it seems like something that could even benefit GW - as they could give some love to xeno factions with minimal investment in new kits. And said xeno players would likely buy mostly GW kits to convert into the model-less HQs/special characters.

But no, because apparently GW HQ is built on a leaky gas main.

As a (former i guess since they got squatted) r&h player one can point to ia13 a propper rules Update and how many people suddendly were more then happy to Start an army...
And GOD knows how often i wondered if i should Make the plunge into nids only to recoil from codex flyrant....


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/06 23:50:08


Post by: Kanluwen


"GW locks items away in regions so not everybody can get it!"
--GW makes item available to everyone
"Who even plays these things?!"

Silver Templars were in Conquest. Conquest hasn't been available to all regions, nor was everyone buying it. If someone was interested in them, they can now buy this WD.

Move along to the next artificial slight for everyone to get upset about.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 00:44:52


Post by: Casualty


I don't think the rules are any harm, and as folks have said, I think it's just a way of keeping Silver Templars available to anybody who built them.

That said, I got Conquest, and while the Silver Templar subgoodies were nice, the number of decals etc were limited and their paint scheme/lore struck me as especially bland, I'm not sure how likely it is anybody went to the rounds of building a whole force of them anyway?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 00:59:25


Post by: BrianDavion


I've got an ultima founding chapter so I'm really eager to read this WD so I can get more info on how pure Primaris chapters orginize


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 01:14:49


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


Likewise. My interest in the Silver Templars is less on the gameplay (seriously, is that all this is about? Something that was probably someone's pet passion project as a Conquest exclusive, not the dedicated time and focus of the entire 40k division), and more on the "so how do all Primaris Chapters work, what kind of organisation and structure do they have, how common are their relics, their resources, their background".

I'm much more interested in their lore than any gameplay material.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 08:28:18


Post by: BrianDavion


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Likewise. My interest in the Silver Templars is less on the gameplay (seriously, is that all this is about? Something that was probably someone's pet passion project as a Conquest exclusive, not the dedicated time and focus of the entire 40k division), and more on the "so how do all Primaris Chapters work, what kind of organisation and structure do they have, how common are their relics, their resources, their background".

I'm much more interested in their lore than any gameplay material.


I agree the fact that people are blowing a gasket over rules is silly. WD is the LAST place I want to see rules that are more then a curiosity, I'd be willing to bet money that the silver templars rules are just a preview of some generic stuff from the new codex anyway, just like blood ravens.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 13:43:08


Post by: mrFickle


If it’s a way of allowing people to keep thier silver Templar’s alive because they bought conquest and invested in holding the army, is WD the place to put that. I mean behind a pay wall? You already paid several times over.

I just don’t think it’s very good customer service, Warhammer community would have been better place for it. And white dwarf, as a paid for item, should have something new in it.

I know it’s not the biggest issue in the world but at times like this it’s an opportunity for GW to give something back. I also can’t see the rules in the app yet.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 13:50:07


Post by: Not Online!!!


mrFickle wrote:
If it’s a way of allowing people to keep thier silver Templar’s alive because they bought conquest and invested in holding the army, is WD the place to put that. I mean behind a pay wall? You already paid several times over.

I just don’t think it’s very good customer service, Warhammer community would have been better place for it. And white dwarf, as a paid for item, should have something new in it.

I know it’s not the biggest issue in the world but at times like this it’s an opportunity for GW to give something back. I also can’t see the rules in the app yet.


You realise that is less asinine then GW selling what ammounts to a balance patch each year...


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 13:51:51


Post by: yukishiro1


mrFickle wrote:
I mean behind a pay wall? You already paid several times over.


Isn't that GW's business model in a nutshell?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 14:29:31


Post by: Kanluwen


mrFickle wrote:
If it’s a way of allowing people to keep thier silver Templar’s alive because they bought conquest and invested in holding the army, is WD the place to put that. I mean behind a pay wall? You already paid several times over.

You know that Conquest wasn't available in North America, right?

I just don’t think it’s very good customer service, Warhammer community would have been better place for it. And white dwarf, as a paid for item, should have something new in it.

I know it’s not the biggest issue in the world but at times like this it’s an opportunity for GW to give something back. I also can’t see the rules in the app yet.

If you think that White Dwarf is a "paywall", that's on you. This is wider availability not exclusive to a subscription model.

Anyone can pick up White Dwarf.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 21:42:55


Post by: Lord Damocles


Oh noes! My army's theme is so poor that if I don't have a special rule telling me that they're Silver Templars, how ever will I know who they are? Woe is me!


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/07 21:54:40


Post by: Quasistellar


Removed.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 00:03:30


Post by: CEO Kasen


It's Marine Fatigue. At this point I'm reasonably sure it's less about how much Marines got in that article and just that Marines are still getting anything after everything else they got in Indomitus and will be getting in SM Codex 3.0. You could release an entirely underpowered special character for the Ball Fondlers, a chapter appearing in an obscure 40K video game that crashed and burned harder than a Stormlemur attempting to carry Your Mom, and it'd still irk people for reasons I can't entirely blame them for; it just comes across as tone-deaf.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 01:47:23


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Not Online!!! wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
If it’s a way of allowing people to keep thier silver Templar’s alive because they bought conquest and invested in holding the army, is WD the place to put that. I mean behind a pay wall? You already paid several times over.

I just don’t think it’s very good customer service, Warhammer community would have been better place for it. And white dwarf, as a paid for item, should have something new in it.

I know it’s not the biggest issue in the world but at times like this it’s an opportunity for GW to give something back. I also can’t see the rules in the app yet.


You realise that is less asinine then GW selling what ammounts to a balance patch each year...

Ding ding ding we have a winner, and that's why you say no to buying GW's printed material!


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 01:57:40


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I just hope these rules are based off of the upcoming Codex, and not the current one.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 03:56:28


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just hope these rules are based off of the upcoming Codex, and not the current one.

GW just made a bunch of books that aren't gonna be compatible with 9th, sooooooooo...


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 04:20:33


Post by: Sumilidon


I'm not 100% on the coherency rules admittedly but the way I see it, these Silver Templars have the most OP strategy of any army.

Their Targetted Volly allows them to select the models who are removed when wounded rather than the controlling player. You have a unit of lets say 30 Termagants spread out in a line but in coherency, and I kill 3 in shooting. I could effectively remove the middle ones, make the unit fall out of coherency and be forced to keep removing models until back into coherence (which would theoretically be half the unit.)

It's the same dick move that Stormcasts can do in AOS



Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 04:25:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Sorry, where are the Silver Templar rules?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 04:48:38


Post by: Lemondish


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sorry, where are the Silver Templar rules?


There were some in the Conquest mini-dex. All I can remember were two stratagems - one that allowed a Silver Templar character to select an enemy character and reroll all failed to hit rolls against the targeted character, and another that triggered when firing stalker bolt rifles from an Intercessor squad - the Silver Templars player could allocate the wounds on the target instead.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 04:51:21


Post by: CEO Kasen


Sumilidon wrote:
I'm not 100% on the coherency rules admittedly but the way I see it, these Silver Templars have the most OP strategy of any army.

Their Targetted Volly allows them to select the models who are removed when wounded rather than the controlling player. You have a unit of lets say 30 Termagants spread out in a line but in coherency, and I kill 3 in shooting. I could effectively remove the middle ones, make the unit fall out of coherency and be forced to keep removing models until back into coherence (which would theoretically be half the unit.)

It's the same dick move that Stormcasts can do in AOS



Really?

That'd be obnoxious if you knew about it; it's an utterly atrocious gotcha-from-nowhere ability to have buried in the back of a goddamn White Dwarf!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lemondish wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sorry, where are the Silver Templar rules?


There were some in the Conquest mini-dex. All I can remember were two stratagems - one that allowed a Silver Templar character to select an enemy character and reroll all failed to hit rolls against the targeted character, and another that triggered when firing stalker bolt rifles from an Intercessor squad - the Silver Templars player could allocate the wounds on the target instead.


Okay, Stalker Bolt Rifles Only makes that less utterly OMGWTF, but it's still a really dickish strat.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 06:02:55


Post by: Breton


 CEO Kasen wrote:
It's Marine Fatigue. At this point I'm reasonably sure it's less about how much Marines got in that article and just that Marines are still getting anything after everything else they got in Indomitus and will be getting in SM Codex 3.0. You could release an entirely underpowered special character for the Ball Fondlers, a chapter appearing in an obscure 40K video game that crashed and burned harder than a Stormlemur attempting to carry Your Mom, and it'd still irk people for reasons I can't entirely blame them for; it just comes across as tone-deaf.


Its the same issue as whether BA/DA/SW count as "Marines" or not, just even more subtle. "Marines" have gotten quite a bit if you roll them all together. They've gotten very very little if you separate out BA/DA/SW as well as DW, and Primaris vs FirstBorn. If you look, you'll find an overwhelming percentage of the new "Marine" releases are Primaris and fill gaps in their army list for people doing Primaris Only - which GW hyped - or for the people who believe old marines are getting squatted somewhere between soon and not too far off.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 08:55:30


Post by: Dysartes


Yeah, I believe BA/DA/SW each come out of 8th with 2 Primaris characters (one Lt, one SC) and an upgrade sprue, in terms of releases specifically for them.

That's still better than some other factions - Tyranids, for example - but not a huge amount.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:08:46


Post by: harlokin


 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, I believe BA/DA/SW each come out of 8th with 2 Primaris characters (one Lt, one SC) and an upgrade sprue, in terms of releases specifically for them.

That's still better than some other factions - Tyranids, for example - but not a huge amount.


While that may be true, rules buffs were applied to Astartes (eg Shock Assault), which benefited Space Marines as a whole, regardless of their armour colour. It's also the case Space Marine models are usable (to a greater or lesser extent) by most if not all the Chapters, whereas Necron stuff, for example, is useless to me as a Drukhari player.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:16:36


Post by: vipoid


Breton wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
It's Marine Fatigue. At this point I'm reasonably sure it's less about how much Marines got in that article and just that Marines are still getting anything after everything else they got in Indomitus and will be getting in SM Codex 3.0. You could release an entirely underpowered special character for the Ball Fondlers, a chapter appearing in an obscure 40K video game that crashed and burned harder than a Stormlemur attempting to carry Your Mom, and it'd still irk people for reasons I can't entirely blame them for; it just comes across as tone-deaf.


Its the same issue as whether BA/DA/SW count as "Marines" or not, just even more subtle. "Marines" have gotten quite a bit if you roll them all together. They've gotten very very little if you separate out BA/DA/SW as well as DW, and Primaris vs FirstBorn. If you look, you'll find an overwhelming percentage of the new "Marine" releases are Primaris and fill gaps in their army list for people doing Primaris Only - which GW hyped - or for the people who believe old marines are getting squatted somewhere between soon and not too far off.


The thing is, whilst some of the Marine subfactions might not have gotten as much as standard Marines, I think you'll still struggle to get much sympathy from xeno players simply because of how many units those subfactions already have.

For example, in the Space Wolf HQ section alone, I count 35 options (just going by Battlescribe). Over 40 if you count Legends.

That's more options than exist in the entire DE codex.

The basic Wolf Lord has access to:
- Jump Pack
- Terminator Armour
- Phobos Armour
- Gravis Armour
- Thunderwolf

- Chainsword
- Frost Axe
- Frost Sword
- Lightning Claw
- Power Axe
- Power Fist
- Power Maul
- Power Sword
- Thunder Hammer
- Wolf Claw (single)
- Wolf Claw (pair)
- Master-Crafted Power Sword (Gravis Armour only)
- Bolterstorm Gauntlet (Gravis Armour only)
- Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine (Phobos Armour only)
- Chainfist (Terminator Armour only)
- Relic Blade (Terminator Armour only)

- Master-Crafted Botgun
- Bolt Pistol
- Plasma Pistol
- Combi-Flamer
- Combi-Melta
- Combi-Plasma
- Storm Bolter

- Storm Shield (Terminator and Thunderwolf only)


The basic DE Archon (currently the only generic HQ choice available for Kabal) has access to:
- Venom Blade
- Huskblade
- Agoniser
- Power Sword

- Splinter Pistol
- Blast Pistol

If you include Legends, then he gets all of 2 more options (Blaster and Phantasm Grenade launcher).


To be clear, I'm not trying to be harsh towards SW players or anything. I just think it's perhaps easy to forget how much the SM subfactions have compared to many other factions in the game.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:18:33


Post by: Not Online!!!


@vipoid, weren't you the one that had the number of releases / faction in one thread?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:22:51


Post by: wuestenfux


Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:24:11


Post by: Not Online!!!


 wuestenfux wrote:
Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Article?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:28:55


Post by: wuestenfux


Not Online!!! wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Article?

Yeah I know.
I'm questioning the relevance of this chapter in the 40k universe.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:29:57


Post by: Dudeface


 harlokin wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, I believe BA/DA/SW each come out of 8th with 2 Primaris characters (one Lt, one SC) and an upgrade sprue, in terms of releases specifically for them.

That's still better than some other factions - Tyranids, for example - but not a huge amount.


While that may be true, rules buffs were applied to Astartes (eg Shock Assault), which benefited Space Marines as a whole, regardless of their armour colour. It's also the case Space Marine models are usable (to a greater or lesser extent) by most if not all the Chapters, whereas Necron stuff, for example, is useless to me as a Drukhari player.


Depends how much of a connection/pride the marine player has to their chapter/fluff I guess, they might want to stick with their respective fluff chapters rules as a point of pride/passion. On a plus side your Drukhari also works as a Ynnari army, which whilst not amazing rules wise is at least a different flavour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Article?

Yeah I know.
I'm questioning the relevance of this chapter in the 40k universe.


They were a "make the conquest subscribers feel special" chapter they added as part of that release program. The fuss in WD will just be as a means to wider distribute their content.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:40:17


Post by: vipoid


Not Online!!! wrote:
@vipoid, weren't you the one that had the number of releases / faction in one thread?


No.


Are you thinking of Darkness Eternal, maybe?

He's the chap who has the same icon as me.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:54:46


Post by: Not Online!!!


 vipoid wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
@vipoid, weren't you the one that had the number of releases / faction in one thread?


No.


Are you thinking of Darkness Eternal, maybe?

He's the chap who has the same icon as me.


Dunno that list still was amazing considering that all Of Chaos got was 2/3 rds of sm in the Same timeframe.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 09:57:17


Post by: vipoid


Not Online!!! wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
@vipoid, weren't you the one that had the number of releases / faction in one thread?


No.


Are you thinking of Darkness Eternal, maybe?

He's the chap who has the same icon as me.


Dunno that list still was amazing considering that all Of Chaos got was 2/3 rds of sm in the Same timeframe.


Oh, I think I know which list you're referring to.

Yeah, it was definitely something of an eye-opener.

(Still wasn't me who posted it, I'm afraid, otherwise I'd be happy to post it again for you here.)


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 10:15:14


Post by: Not Online!!!


 wuestenfux wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Article?

Yeah I know.
I'm questioning the relevance of this chapter in the 40k universe.


irrelevant, compared to ther factions that should be the backbone for ,l i dunno whole superfactions but got even less then they got in this little WD index..

But i guess they needed something to pad the WD but had to be SM because everything else doesn't sell as much, never mind the desinvestment cycles going on in DE or CWE ...

Spoiler:


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 10:18:04


Post by: BrianDavion


 wuestenfux wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Article?

Yeah I know.
I'm questioning the relevance of this chapter in the 40k universe.


does every article need to be about a super story galaxy impacting group? IMHO WD is the perfect place to highlight lesser known subfactions. I'd rather read a WD article on the silver templars, then one that basicly summerizes what the Dark Angels codex says


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 11:19:20


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


BrianDavion wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Who are those Silver Templars?
GW's enthusiasm about SM finds no end.


Article?

Yeah I know.
I'm questioning the relevance of this chapter in the 40k universe.


does every article need to be about a super story galaxy impacting group? IMHO WD is the perfect place to highlight lesser known subfactions. I'd rather read a WD article on the silver templars, then one that basicly summerizes what the Dark Angels codex says
Agreed. I think people are WAY too hung up on what's probably a single page of rules, written by someone in their lunch break for Conquest. The real meat of the article will be about painting them, maybe a showcase of some Silver Templars models, and some lore pages. And if any faction should have lore right now, it's probably the Ultima-founding Primarins ONLY Chapters, if only to help dispel many of the myths and blatant misrepresentations that people have about Primaris in the lore.
Ah, what am I saying, the same people complaining about the lore won't read those parts.

Does Marine fatigue exist? Yes. Do Marines get way more stuff than anyone else, and probably don't deserve it? Also yes. Is a reprint of some fluff for a Chapter that seems to exist only for worldbuilding coming at the cost of something better for xenos factions? Probably not. Did the resources it took to make this stop or prevent some big xenos revival? Also unlikely.
I'm totally agreed that Marines get too mmuch and xenos factions especially deserve so much more love from GW. But complaining about this is frankly a little ridiculous. It seems you're only complaining about this (and not the previous White Dwarf articles about, say, the Chapter *made for White Dwarf*, the Tome Keepers) because it has rules.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 11:26:24


Post by: mrFickle


Sumilidon wrote:
I'm not 100% on the coherency rules admittedly but the way I see it, these Silver Templars have the most OP strategy of any army.

Their Targetted Volly allows them to select the models who are removed when wounded rather than the controlling player. You have a unit of lets say 30 Termagants spread out in a line but in coherency, and I kill 3 in shooting. I could effectively remove the middle ones, make the unit fall out of coherency and be forced to keep removing models until back into coherence (which would theoretically be half the unit.)

It's the same dick move that Stormcasts can do in AOS



So you could also choose to remove the special weapons units etc? So silver Templar’s become hugely popular at tournaments and we have another SM codex on the way.



Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 11:33:29


Post by: the_scotsman


Uh, yeah no. Silver templars are probably not going to have a superdoctrine, have a couple WL traits, a couple strats, and a gakky CT, nobody but nobody is going to give up the orgy of excess that is a marine supplement to wallow in that WD filth.

GW choosing not to do literally anything else with their time, like redesigning one of the factions that desperately needs attention or adding a trait for a different faction is pointless to complain about because we know they won't. Why would they?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 11:33:56


Post by: Not Online!!!


mrFickle wrote:
Sumilidon wrote:
I'm not 100% on the coherency rules admittedly but the way I see it, these Silver Templars have the most OP strategy of any army.

Their Targetted Volly allows them to select the models who are removed when wounded rather than the controlling player. You have a unit of lets say 30 Termagants spread out in a line but in coherency, and I kill 3 in shooting. I could effectively remove the middle ones, make the unit fall out of coherency and be forced to keep removing models until back into coherence (which would theoretically be half the unit.)

It's the same dick move that Stormcasts can do in AOS



So you could also choose to remove the special weapons units etc? So silver Templar’s become hugely popular at tournaments and we have another SM codex on the way.



Yep, big squad of a horde ? Like say 30 ork boys, Saw it in half, wipe another 1/3rd by sawing the orkboys squd in half thanks to coherency.
Smaller squad , like say 5 CSM with a lascannon, yep, that lascannon dude now get's wiped.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 11:35:38


Post by: wuestenfux



They were a "make the conquest subscribers feel special" chapter they added as part of that release program. The fuss in WD will just be as a means to wider distribute their content.

Indeed, GW cares about its subscribers.
Although, the date of release (before the SM codex) is a bit strange.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 13:28:51


Post by: Breton


 vipoid wrote:
Breton wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
It's Marine Fatigue. At this point I'm reasonably sure it's less about how much Marines got in that article and just that Marines are still getting anything after everything else they got in Indomitus and will be getting in SM Codex 3.0. You could release an entirely underpowered special character for the Ball Fondlers, a chapter appearing in an obscure 40K video game that crashed and burned harder than a Stormlemur attempting to carry Your Mom, and it'd still irk people for reasons I can't entirely blame them for; it just comes across as tone-deaf.


Its the same issue as whether BA/DA/SW count as "Marines" or not, just even more subtle. "Marines" have gotten quite a bit if you roll them all together. They've gotten very very little if you separate out BA/DA/SW as well as DW, and Primaris vs FirstBorn. If you look, you'll find an overwhelming percentage of the new "Marine" releases are Primaris and fill gaps in their army list for people doing Primaris Only - which GW hyped - or for the people who believe old marines are getting squatted somewhere between soon and not too far off.


The thing is, whilst some of the Marine subfactions might not have gotten as much as standard Marines, I think you'll still struggle to get much sympathy from xeno players simply because of how many units those subfactions already have.



That wasn't my point. My point was one could and in some ways should consider Primaris it's own subfaction with the way GW has hyped Primaris Only chapters etc. (Which I believe the Silver Templars are? I don't know haven't bought the rules, but I thought I saw someone mention it)

Whether Old Marines are getting a slow squat, or Primaris Marines are going to be a quasi subfaction that can/should exist on it's own like BA/DA/SW or Eldar/DE or Nids/GSC they need all the archetypical options covered before they're fully viable. The Primaris line is, in some ways, an entirely new army, being released over several years instead of all at once.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 13:30:08


Post by: the_scotsman


I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 13:51:07


Post by: Dudeface


the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


Agreed. Just advance the timeline 200 years and boom, all squatty marines are dead or renegade.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:15:07


Post by: Breton


the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


My point is, In some ways they are but lumping them in with Marines as a whole makes it easy to lose sight of that.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:22:15


Post by: the_scotsman


Breton wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


My point is, In some ways they are but lumping them in with Marines as a whole makes it easy to lose sight of that.


Primaris is way more of a marine army than Khorne Daemons and Slaanesh Daemons are the same army.

You get aura overlap, stratagem overlap, you can include them in the same detachment and keep all your benefits, they literally just can't use the same transports, that's it, that's the only restriction.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:25:35


Post by: Dudeface


the_scotsman wrote:
Breton wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


My point is, In some ways they are but lumping them in with Marines as a whole makes it easy to lose sight of that.


Primaris is way more of a marine army than Khorne Daemons and Slaanesh Daemons are the same army.

You get aura overlap, stratagem overlap, you can include them in the same detachment and keep all your benefits, they literally just can't use the same transports, that's it, that's the only restriction.


Breton isn't refuting that, just that they couldn't separate the marines into a primaris and not codex at the time for w/e reason, likewise they couldn't squat most peoples armies, hence they ended up coexisting in 1 book.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:28:19


Post by: Breton


Dudeface wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Breton wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


My point is, In some ways they are but lumping them in with Marines as a whole makes it easy to lose sight of that.


Primaris is way more of a marine army than Khorne Daemons and Slaanesh Daemons are the same army.

You get aura overlap, stratagem overlap, you can include them in the same detachment and keep all your benefits, they literally just can't use the same transports, that's it, that's the only restriction.


Breton isn't refuting that, just that they couldn't separate the marines into a primaris and not codex at the time for w/e reason, likewise they couldn't squat most peoples armies, hence they ended up coexisting in 1 book.


And that there are people who play Primaris Only, and people who play Old Marine only voluntarily. That's not any more fair than lumping Nids and GSC together.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:29:14


Post by: Dysartes


the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


Dude, we've asked you 7 sextillion times not to exaggerate so much. It really takes away from whatever point you're trying to make.


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:29:41


Post by: the_scotsman


Breton wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Breton wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I'd love it if primaris marines were their own army. It'd stop codex space marines from having 3,455,231,465,283 options competing for each role.


My point is, In some ways they are but lumping them in with Marines as a whole makes it easy to lose sight of that.


Primaris is way more of a marine army than Khorne Daemons and Slaanesh Daemons are the same army.

You get aura overlap, stratagem overlap, you can include them in the same detachment and keep all your benefits, they literally just can't use the same transports, that's it, that's the only restriction.


Breton isn't refuting that, just that they couldn't separate the marines into a primaris and not codex at the time for w/e reason, likewise they couldn't squat most peoples armies, hence they ended up coexisting in 1 book.


And that there are people who play Primaris Only, and people who play Old Marine only voluntarily. That's not any more fair than lumping Nids and GSC together.


Or, more accurately I guess, people who play Eldar but choose to play only Wraiths? We shouldn't call the guy with the wraith army and the guy with the aspect host army both "Eldar Players' should we?


Silver Templar’s - is it enough already @ 2020/09/08 15:40:41


Post by: ZebioLizard2


These arguments have somewhat devolved at this point.