Here’s a codex worth waiting 60 million years in a tomb for! One of the first codexes to hit the shelves is Codex: Necrons, and for the lore alone, it will be an unmissable read for every Warhammer 40,000 fan. With even more brand-new units on their way and an army-wide rules overhaul, this book will also be a (literal) game-changer for the Necrons on the battlefield!
LORE
So what’s new with the Necrons lore? Well, for starters, their ancestral ruler, the Silent King, has returned from self-imposed exile – that’s galaxy-shattering news! However, his reappearance has caused something of a crisis of faith among the dynasties, and not all have welcomed him back…
The new codex also expands the lore of the Szarekhan – the dynasty of the Silent King himself – and reveals the impact that their rise to prominence has had on the other Necron Phaerons and their dynasties. The book also showcases some stunning artwork that really helps to bring the Necrons to life, such as this incredible piece that sees numberless phalanxes assembled before the Silent King to pay homage.
RULES
Speaking of the Szerakhan, they’ll be receiving their own Dynastic Code, Uncanny Artificers, which provides them with a significant edge (or three, to be precise!) in the battle. The codex even includes rules for creating your own Dynastic Code, too!
But what’s all this talk of ‘command protocols’? Well, consider it one of the perks of biotransference which enables Necrons of high status to impose their will upon those who serve them. It may sound harsh, but don’t worry – for you, this is definitely a good thing! Here’s how it works…
If your army of Necrons all hails from the same dynasty and is led by a Character with the Noble keyword, then at the start of the game, you can secretly assign one of six command protocols to utilise during each battle round. After revealing your selected command protocol, you’ll need to choose which directive you will activate. Any of your units within 6″ of your Characters will then benefit from that directive. With careful strategy and forethought, command protocols can really throw off your opponent while giving you a massive advantage.
Spoiler:
The mysterious Crypteks are about to bring another string to your tachyon bow – OK, so a tachyon arrow doesn’t need a bow to fire, but you catch our drift! In fact, they’re about to bring four strings! There are now four, fully fledged varieties of Cryptek, divided according to their hypertechnological specialisation, and each benefits from their own datasheet replete with a plethora of thematic rules. The Plasmancer that made its debut in Indomitus was just the start!
Furthermore, they can be given an item of Cryptek Arkana for a nominal cost in Power or points, representing the wondrously esoteric techno-magic of the ancient Necron empire. Not only can these items be very handy in a tight spot, but they offer a versatile way to top up or round out your army list. As a master of temporal manipulation, a Chronomancer, for example, can be equipped with a means to slow your enemies to a crawl at crucial moments – but more on them later!
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NECRONS ON CRUSADE
One of the most exciting features of Warhammer 40,000’s newest and best-ever edition is the narrative-driven Crusade campaign system. The awesome thing is that every new codex is going to have a section dedicated to providing that faction with loads of new and wonderfully thematic options just for Crusade. We defy anyone to read this section of their codex and not immediately want to start a Crusade campaign – seriously!
You can look forward to faction-specific Agendas, Requisitions, Battle Traits, Crusade Relics and, in the case of the Necrons, even Dynastic Epithets – bespoke titles that offer unique upgrades or abilities. Here’s one such example, The Slow Decay of the Self Requisition, which represents a Character succumbing to the mindless lust for violence embraced by the Destroyer Cult.If like us, you thought the basic Crusade rules in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book were already pretty rad, you’re gonna love all the extra narrative goodness in the new codexes!
New plastic Flayed Ones:
Spoiler:
New Ophydian Destroyers:
Spoiler:
New Chronomancer:
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New Psychomancer:
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Reveal 2: Sphess Mareeeeeeeeenz!
Simply put, the Space Marines are about to receive the biggest and best codex to date – the nearest thing to an actual Codex Astartes that we’ve ever made! In fact, it’s so all-encompassing that its enormous background section and in-depth rules cater for every loyal First Founding Chapter and their successors – yes, we’re talking Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and even the Deathwatch!*
In addition to detailed lore on all the First Founding Chapters and some of their most famous successors (such as the Black Templars and Crimson Fists), the new codex is the biggest ever, with a whopping 98 datasheets covering all of the common units available to the armies of the Adeptus Astartes.
It will serve as a core book for future codex supplements that will formally reintroduce each Chapter’s bespoke units and Characters (we’ll have more on these later). Existing codex supplements such as that of the Ultramarines are still perfectly compatible with the new book, and we’ll be providing the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, and Space Wolves with get-you-by rules so you’ll be good to go from the outset.
As with the Codex: Necrons, the new Space Marines book is chock full of awesome supplemental Crusade rules for the Angels of Death. One of our favourite additions is the Requisition Even in Death I Still Serve, which sees a beloved but badly wounded Character from your Order of Battle interred within a Dreadnought’s sarcophagus to continue the fight!
That’s just one of the cool things you can do. There’s even the opportunity for one of your firstborn Characters to brave crossing the Rubicon Primaris, though doing so does not come without risk…
The new codex has also consolidated many of the most popular rules features that first made an appearance in the various Psychic Awakening books. The Chapter Command rules are one such example, meaning you’ll be able to upgrade one of your Chapter’s Chaplains, Librarians, Techmarines, and a variety of other Characters to the head of their order, but at a small cost in Power or points instead of using a Stratagem.
We’ve already shown you some of the brand-new Adeptus Astartes units, but to save you from struggling to identify all 98 units, we’re going to show the rest right now! First up, check out the Captain with Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle – and yes, he’s wearing Mark X Gravis armour!
Wait a minute… a heavy bolt rifle? Yes, indeed! Heavy bolt rifles also happen to be the standard armament of… wait for it… Heavy Intercessors! And they’re called that for a reason – like their Captain, these bad-boys aren’t just heavily armed, they’re heavily armoured too, thanks to their Gravis armour. A Toughness 5 Troops unit with 3 Wounds apiece, anyone?
Spoiler:
While we’re on Gravis-armoured Space Marines, check out the multipart kit for the melta-toting Eradicators that made their debut in Indomitus.
The kit includes loads more options, such as the ability to swap out their melta rifles for an even harder-hitting heavy version. You’ll even be able to give one Eradicator in the set a multi-melta, complete with its devastating new profile…
The Bladeguard Veterans are also set to be treated to a multipart kit, offering dynamic new poses and the ability to equip the squad’s Sergeant with a neo-volkite pistol. As of the new codex, Bladeguard Veterans will also be officially picking up the Deathwing/Wolf Guard keywords too, so they’ll seamlessly fit in as members of the fighting elite within the structure of the Dark Angels and Space Wolves Chapters.
A multipart Assault Intercessors kit is also on its way. In addition to more flexible posing options throughout, the squad’s Sergeant can be assembled with a hand flamer or plasma pistol, and can even wield a power sword, power fist, or thunder hammer too!
Last, but by no means least, is one of the coolest Primaris releases so far – the Storm Speeder! This awesome assault craft comes in three patterns, each equipped with a blistering array of heavy weaponry designed to eliminate a particular type of enemy. First up is the anti-infantry specialist, the Storm Speeder Hailstrike.
Good lord they're making me work for it today, ain't they?
Reveal 3: DEAAAAAAAAAAAAATH GUAAAAAAAAARD!
But really, there's four books in 2020. Deathwatch, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves are supplements for Codex: Space Marines...and Death Guard get some swag alongside their codex! There's a terrain piece at least in the trailer(which is a Brightcove thing and basically impossible to embed elsewhere annoyingly).
"Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021"
Reveal 4: Forge World Indices
Fans of the Forge World’s devastating tanks, Titans, Dreadnoughts, and more also have much to look forward to in the form of a brand-new Imperial Armour: Compendium book.
Gaze upon its glory and prepare your armies for war!
This compendium is jam-packed full of updated datasheets and new rules designed to bring all of the amazing kits designed by Forge World right up to speed with the new edition. As well as loads of updated units and weapons profiles, you’ll also find a brand-new Regimental Doctrine for the mighty Death Korps of Krieg… …as well as the return of some old favourites such as the Ork Warboss on Bike – looks like the Meks have finally fixed his ride. Waaagh!
I'm guessing this means we will see some of those models they teased for other factions revealed in full or teased some more. They might show off others and perhaps we'll see a road map for at least the next two to three codex for 40K being updated/released (or at least the next one after Necrons/Marines).
Considering that November is clearly tangled up with AoS releases (Morathi and Slaanesh) then that would leave December with ample time to get at least one more codex out for 40K.
We know they're adding Crusade stuff, beyond that...no ideas.
Definitely hoping to see that Skitarii HQ choice myself. I think that assuming AoS will rule November is a bit iffy. There's three books slated for Marines in October: Deathwatch anthology("The Long Vigil"), Bloodquest reprint, and "Darkness in the Blood"(Blood Angels). There's also "Ragnar Blackmane" by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, which is a limited edition that has no date. I wouldn't be shocked if the AoS stuff doesn't happen until mid-late November.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: "New Codex Format"
I wonder what they mean by this, if this means significant differences or just that they will add Crusade stuff?
Probably just the graphic design. Can't imagine doing away with datasheets at this point.
Might be to do with command structure, limited captains etc. They could boost this with mentioning new lesser HQs for those factions that don't have them. The new sister one for starters, but perhaps also a mention for DE characters (although if they push the multiple patrol system, they don't need to).
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: "New Codex Format"
I wonder what they mean by this, if this means significant differences or just that they will add Crusade stuff?
Probably just the graphic design. Can't imagine doing away with datasheets at this point.
Crosses fingers for points moved to the datasheets from the back of the book.
That was such an asinine decision in the first place. Completely pointless cross-referencing is entirely without merit, especially since the point of datasheets is providing information.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: "New Codex Format"
I wonder what they mean by this, if this means significant differences or just that they will add Crusade stuff?
Probably just the graphic design. Can't imagine doing away with datasheets at this point.
Crosses fingers for points moved to the datasheets from the back of the book.
That was such an asinine decision in the first place.
That's not happening in all likelihood...not unless you stop paying points for wargear.
Part 1 of the classic Bloodquest graphic novel, colourised for the first time!
Exiled for the loss of the fabled Blade Encarmine, Captain Leonatos of the Blood Angels Space Marines and his brave battle brothers set forth upon a quest that would take them halfway across the universe and to the very brink of madness and reason.
It says part 1, but it's supposed to be 248 pages. Looking at my 3 softcovers they were under 100 pages each so they could all fit in this book. OR they really are just reprinting 1 book (or maybe 1 1/2 books) and padding them out to 248 pages.
Hrm.
At $30 I'd jump at all 3 in one book, but if it's going to be padded and come out in 2-3 volumes pass.
No need to trawl Amazon. They literally tell you via Warhammer Community what's coming up--with the exception of the 'secret' books that tie to a big box release or the like.
No need to trawl Amazon. They literally tell you via Warhammer Community what's coming up--with the exception of the 'secret' books that tie to a big box release or the like.
Thanks but it still doesn't answer my question about content.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: "New Codex Format"
I wonder what they mean by this, if this means significant differences or just that they will add Crusade stuff?
Probably just the graphic design. Can't imagine doing away with datasheets at this point.
Crosses fingers for points moved to the datasheets from the back of the book.
That was such an asinine decision in the first place. Completely pointless cross-referencing is entirely without merit, especially since the point of datasheets is providing information.
I expect a 0% chance of them putting points on the datasheets. We know they will be updated at least yearly, so no point in putting them there.
Instead, I expect the new datasheets to look a lot like those we have seen in Edge of Silence from the Indomitus box.
As for the next Codexes, I can't imagine that Codex Supplements for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Deathwatch are too far into the future. If they follow the two a month pattern they did last time, we will have these four by the end of 2020.
Huh. The 9 of tentacles, the 7 of triangles, 6 of serpents (Yep. Those are snakes, and not symbolic of anything. *whistles*) and the Eight of a World in a targeting reticle as if its going to be Eaten by those skulls.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: "New Codex Format"
I wonder what they mean by this, if this means significant differences or just that they will add Crusade stuff?
Probably just the graphic design. Can't imagine doing away with datasheets at this point.
Crosses fingers for points moved to the datasheets from the back of the book.
That was such an asinine decision in the first place. Completely pointless cross-referencing is entirely without merit, especially since the point of datasheets is providing information.
I expect a 0% chance of them putting points on the datasheets. We know they will be updated at least yearly, so no point in putting them there.
Instead, I expect the new datasheets to look a lot like those we have seen in Edge of Silence from the Indomitus box.
As for the next Codexes, I can't imagine that Codex Supplements for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Deathwatch are too far into the future. If they follow the two a month pattern they did last time, we will have these four by the end of 2020.
They aren't any more pointless on the datasheets than putting them in the back of the book. Just more convenient, even when they do change.
I don't really expect it, but it would still be more usable.
Supplements... maybe. I can see them doing it just to get them done. But I can also see them spreading out marine releases to shore up weak fiscal quarters in the next year or two. depends whose call it is.
Oh my god. One could hope. Yet we know it wont happen since kill team exists.
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Voss wrote: Huh. The 9 of tentacles, the 7 of triangles, 6 of serpents (Yep. Those are snakes, and not symbolic of anything. *whistles*) and the Eight of a World in a targeting reticle as if its going to be Eaten by those skulls.
I'm sure its not indicative of anything.
Are those the suits of the emperors tarot? Ive been out of 40k for awhile so i wouldnt know.
But, i do know real world tarot quite well as i have a collection of about 450 tarot decks. And normally, when you see those roman numerals without a very clear suit signifier, then those would be named trumps of the major arcana
IX is The Hermit, VII is The Chariot, VI is The Lovers, and VIII is Strength
Since tarot is steeped in symbolism, im not exactly sure the suits would be what you mention, and again, there is not a clear signifier.
But looking past all that esoteric hoopla, im sure these are just the favored number of the ruinous power it represents these makor arcana.
6 is slaanesh (serpents and tunnels *cough*), 7 is nurgle (he favors triangular symbolidm), 8 is khorne (the worldeater), 9 is tzeentch (eyes, and mutations)
Unless GW does what they've done in AoS and fragments them into four separate armies. Which works really well honestly, save that you really feel the need for more models for armies like Slaanesh. If they all get the Nurgle and Khorne treatment then they'd be neat to see. Plus one bonus of having both games with an army for each god means that there's more chance we might see more neutral demonic units for both games. Many of the demons we have now are old in design - ergo they've been around for years and years. I'd like to see armies like Slaanesh get some new creative toys and monsters to throw down (esp some more non-leader models)
I hope they split the major gods up and give love to them all. C'mon Doomrider
More realistically, I hope that the new codex format actually means something other than new layout....I know, I know hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
This might actually get me to pick up the marine codex(of both flavours).
But I really want more info on the Palatine & Skitarii HQ and how they fit into the organizational structure of both Army's along with their pertinent abilities/whatever.
Racerguy180 wrote: More realistically, I hope that the new codex format actually means something other than new layout....I know, I know hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Aside from the cleaner datasheet layout from Indomitus/the starters, and the promised inclusion of Crusade material and faction secondary objectives, what would you want to see in this new codex format?
Racerguy180 wrote: More realistically, I hope that the new codex format actually means something other than new layout....I know, I know hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Aside from the cleaner datasheet layout from Indomitus/the starters, and the promised inclusion of Crusade material and faction secondary objectives, what would you want to see in this new codex format?
I'm calling it now. Remember how CA2020 was two small books. All the data sheets and points will be in a small portable book that comes paired with the hardback codex. The hardback will have lore, paint tips, crusade rules, missions, pictures and art. The tiny book will have the game stuff.
They could go back to the old style of Codex- whereby points, upgrade options and stats are all on the single page for a model. Rather than model on one page; points on another; weapons on another; points for weapons on another etc... Back in the 3rd ed and such codex you could see all a single unit could do on a single page, perhaps two for some big character units. Now you have to keep flipping back and forth all the time.
Overread wrote: They could go back to the old style of Codex- whereby points, upgrade options and stats are all on the single page for a model. Rather than model on one page; points on another; weapons on another; points for weapons on another etc... Back in the 3rd ed and such codex you could see all a single unit could do on a single page, perhaps two for some big character units. Now you have to keep flipping back and forth all the time.
Would make updating points less easy though. It would come down to:
"page X, tactical marine. Y pts per model. Lascannon Z pts each"
"page X, devastator marine, G pts per model, Lascannon J pts each"
Overread wrote: I'm guessing this means we will see some of those models they teased for other factions revealed in full or teased some more. They might show off others and perhaps we'll see a road map for at least the next two to three codex for 40K being updated/released (or at least the next one after Necrons/Marines).
Considering that November is clearly tangled up with AoS releases (Morathi and Slaanesh) then that would leave December with ample time to get at least one more codex out for 40K.
I doubt it, it says the codex edition, we know for a fact that not everything has been revealed, the primaris land speeder for example. and I bet there's some necron stuff yet to be revealed
Overread wrote: They could go back to the old style of Codex- whereby points, upgrade options and stats are all on the single page for a model. Rather than model on one page; points on another; weapons on another; points for weapons on another etc... Back in the 3rd ed and such codex you could see all a single unit could do on a single page, perhaps two for some big character units. Now you have to keep flipping back and forth all the time.
It could be worse. It could be the 5th Edition Codices where you had:
1. Unit profiles and special rules on one page. 2. Unit profiles (again), but no special rules, but points and options. 3. A separate "Wargear" section that had all the weapon rules. 4. Except it didn't, because so many of the weapon entries had "see page X", which led you back to the first point, as some unit entries had unique weapon rules. I think the most notorious example of this was the 5th Ed Guard Codex, which had a "Vehicle Armoury" section consisting of 31 separate entries, of which 23 were references to other parts of the book (or the core rulebook)! Why even have that section if it's just going to reference other pages in three quarters of its entries?
I'm not expecting much to change with the "new format", probably just the new style icons for the data sheets for the profiles and weapons etc.
Since nothing has been heard regarding forge world, it makes me wonder if FW stuff will just be included in the faction codex now, especially as the rules are done by the same team. Unlikely though, because fW rules are another revenue stream in addition to the codex.
Aash wrote: I'm not expecting much to change with the "new format", probably just the new style icons for the data sheets for the profiles and weapons etc.
Since nothing has been heard regarding forge world, it makes me wonder if FW stuff will just be included in the faction codex now, especially as the rules are done by the same team. Unlikely though, because fW rules are another revenue stream in addition to the codex.
It would be so immensly pro consumer, that it would probably get you fired if you ever brought it up in a GW board meeting...
Hollow wrote: Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".
I'm at the point where I'm happy to see the world burn - reveal that marines were under performing compared to their expectations so they're actually getting 5 new army wide special rules that basically make everyone else redundant. Chaos confirmed to get a 10% tax on any items that loyalists have because of the spikes. New faction: Xenos - this will be a consolidated book of generic profiles to use in single players, balanced against the new marine rules so they lose every time.
In reality, I think the last few kits will be shown off and given the previews on facebook we might get a "here's the next few books after" or due to the way the chaos tarot cards are spread possibly a book for each of the last 2 main legions. Possibly the end of the "daemons codex".
Hollow wrote: Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".
I'm at the point where I'm happy to see the world burn - reveal that marines were under performing compared to their expectations so they're actually getting 5 new army wide special rules that basically make everyone else redundant. Chaos confirmed to get a 10% tax on any items that loyalists have because of the spikes. New faction: Xenos - this will be a consolidated book of generic profiles to use in single players, balanced against the new marine rules so they lose every time.
In reality, I think the last few kits will be shown off and given the previews on facebook we might get a "here's the next few books after" or due to the way the chaos tarot cards are spread possibly a book for each of the last 2 main legions. Possibly the end of the "daemons codex".
Oh no, it's an iron warrior that has ascended peak salt! He has , dare i say it, become a salbliterator.
Ok jokes aside, i think you are spot on, but maybee gw surprises us ?
I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
the_scotsman wrote: I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
What do you with the non god aligned legions? which allready took a comparative backseat to the mono ones?
Allbeit a propper legion dex, a propper Daemonsdex, and a chaos fodder dex would solve most issues if done propperly.
I'm still betting on gw giving csm the same treatment as loyalists: one big codex covering all the legions + supplements for each legion including the Chaos botherers. Because that = more $$$.
the_scotsman wrote: I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?
IF GW did what they did in AoS then we'd see 4 mono-god factions with their own book and then a single "Chaos" army book which covers the greater bulk of those who either support all the gods or none at all.
Gadzilla666 wrote: I'm still betting on gw giving csm the same treatment as loyalists: one big codex covering all the legions + supplements for each legion including the Chaos botherers. Because that = more $$$.
the_scotsman wrote: I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?
They're not chaos space marines, they're renegade marines
In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
Overread wrote:IF GW did what they did in AoS then we'd see 4 mono-god factions with their own book and then a single "Chaos" army book which covers the greater bulk of those who either support all the gods or none at all.
And how well is that second group handled, might I ask?
terry wrote:
Spoiler:
Gadzilla666 wrote: I'm still betting on gw giving csm the same treatment as loyalists: one big codex covering all the legions + supplements for each legion including the Chaos botherers. Because that = more $$$.
the_scotsman wrote: I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?
They're not chaos space marines, they're renegade marines
No, they're not, they're the original Traitor Legions that have been fighting The Long War for 10,000 years.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote: But as Not Online!!! asks: what of the non-chaos worshipping legions?
It seems like the "big book+Supplements" approach is probably the most permissive way to handle chaos.
....Though I would like to see Renegades as a separate book with access to all the imperial equipment, or even a "Brood Brothers' Style rule that allows you to bring stuff like Primaris, the loyalist-specific guns and tanks and things, over to chaos.
Overread wrote:IF GW did what they did in AoS then we'd see 4 mono-god factions with their own book and then a single "Chaos" army book which covers the greater bulk of those who either support all the gods or none at all.
And how well is that second group handled, might I ask?
It's "Slaves to Darkness". Model wise they've a huge roster of choices and recently got a new getting started set with chaos warriors and knights inside (though we've yet to see GW release them solo). Balance wise they were the last army to get a 2.0 Battletome so there's some residual "they are the worst" hanging around because they came late to the 2.0 party (someone had to be last). Otherwise I've not seen any strong pro nor con arguments based on their current book which would suggest to me that they are doing well in the middle. Not supremely underpowered and not overpowered.
For 40K I would expect to see the Demon books do well solo if just because they'd already have access to Chaos Marine variations of their own. In AoS armies like Slaanesh have suffered a bit in model diversity because they didn't have mono god themed warriors for a long time. So it was mostly reliant on the demon models. That is steadily changing as GW releases more, Khorne and Nurgle have done very well out of it so far in terms of mono-god focused models for mortals.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
the_scotsman wrote:It seems like the "big book+Supplements" approach is probably the most permissive way to handle chaos.
....Though I would like to see Renegades as a separate book with access to all the imperial equipment, or even a "Brood Brothers' Style rule that allows you to bring stuff like Primaris, the loyalist-specific guns and tanks and things, over to chaos.
That could work. As long as they keep primaris out of The Legions.
Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
But how do they compare to the Space Corgis?
@Overread: Thanks for the lowdown. Nice models. Interesting to see they have actual models for Chosen....
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
the_scotsman wrote: I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
What do you with the non god aligned legions? which allready took a comparative backseat to the mono ones?
Allbeit a propper legion dex, a propper Daemonsdex, and a chaos fodder dex would solve most issues if done propperly.
IMO a proper represantation of the chaos faction would look like this:
- Daemons (Mono-God, summoned, chaos undivided)
- Knights (as they are now)
- CSM: Legions (big book including TS and DG without reducing their options)
- CSM: Renegades (know renegades like fallen, "build your own renegade chapter" with access to a mix of loyalist and chaos options, similar to ynnari)
- Traitor Guard (chaos regiments, cults)
the_scotsman wrote: I'd be happy to see Chaos restructured into 4 god-books ala AOS. Give them flexible Chapter Traits and let them be a thematically coherent set of factions instead of daemon-jumble plus CSM.
What do you with the non god aligned legions? which allready took a comparative backseat to the mono ones?
Allbeit a propper legion dex, a propper Daemonsdex, and a chaos fodder dex would solve most issues if done propperly.
IMO a proper represantation of the chaos faction would look like this:
- Daemons (Mono-God, summoned, chaos undivided)
- Knights (as they are now)
- CSM: Legions (big book including TS and DG without reducing their options)
- CSM: Renegades (know renegades like fallen, "build your own renegade chapter" with access to a mix of loyalist and chaos options, similar to ynnari)
- Traitor Guard (chaos regiments, cults)
that would certainly work, i am unsure if you don't want to combine renegades and legions into one book with 2 lists (heresy i know, and also custommer friendly but still heresy.)
but yeah that WOULD do better then what we have now IF gw actually sits down for all off 5 minutes and actually makes mono daemons viable just aswell as mixed daemons.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
I forgot how many special characters they had to be fair, there's 10 unique hq's in BA alone
Will be a bunch of waffle about how amazing stuff is going to be and how excited everyone is.
They will tease some rules that already exist in the current codexes, co9ndirm codex will give you rules, and then reveal some space marine model we know is coming.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
Death Guard have 15 unique units, including those which are just DG version of generic units, like blightlords or plague casters.
Dark Angels have 21 unique units, ignoring those who only differ in name and minor keywords (masters, deathwing tartaros, ravenwing speeders)
Blood Angels have 18 unique units
Hollow wrote: Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".
I fully expect underwhelming here. Most of it will be the models we've already seen with an extra detail or two, plus the primaris 'land speeder.' And some vague yammering about the crusade rules in the two books.
They're playing catch up, and this stuff has been on the release block for two months now. People honestly want to move on past the SM and Necron releases (and the known stuff for everything else) whether GW is ready or not. In all fairness it's completely understandable that they're not, but it doesn't make for interesting previews.
They started these reveals too early, and another hyped 'big preview' with still a month to go is a mistake.
Hollow wrote: Quick everybody! build up your unrealistic expectations so that you can moan, groan and complain on the day about it being "underwhelming".
I fully expect underwhelming here. Most of it will be the models we've already seen with an extra detail or two, plus the primaris 'land speeder.' And some vague yammering about the crusade rules in the two books.
They're playing catch up, and this stuff has been on the release block for two months now. People honestly want to move on past the SM and Necron releases (and the known stuff for everything else) whether GW is ready or not. In all fairness it's completely understandable that they're not, but it doesn't make for interesting previews.
They started these reveals too early, and another hyped 'big preview' with still a month to go is a mistake.
In fairness, they don't seem to me massively overhyping it this time. The current language is just "oh, hey, if you want to see some new stuff, there will be some new stuff", rather than it being the biggest most exciting preview in the history of previews.
JWBS wrote: I think he said you're all supposed to build hype and then start crying during / after the reveals. You've started the crying part way too early.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Dark Angels units I can find that are statistically different than their vanilla counterparts (not just names/keywords): asmodai azrael belial ezekiel lazarus talonmaster sammael on sableclaw sammael on corvex deathwing ancient/apothecary/champion deathwing terminators deathwing knights ravenwing ancient/apothecary/champion ravenwing bike squad ravenwing black knights ravenwing land speeder ravenwing attack bike ravenwing vengeance ravenwing darkshroud nephilim and dark talon.
24 datasheets
Death Guard units that are unique: mortarion typhus lord of contagion malignant plaguecaster plague marines poxwalkers biologis putrifier blightlord terminators deathshroud terminators foul blightspawn plague surgeon tallyman fetid bloatdrone myphitic blight hauler plagueburst crawler
14 datasheets.
Not even close. I haven't combed through blood angels, but I suspect the results would be similar. Again this is only counting stuff where the actual datasheets need to be reprinted to include unique rules like "Jink" on the Ravenwing Land Speeder datasheet or the varying access to weaponry on the Deathwing terminator datasheet, and not stuff that just has slightly altered names like "Interrogator-Chaplain" that can use the same datasheet as a chaplain.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
Death Guard have 15 unique units, including those which are just DG version of generic units, like blightlords or plague casters.
Dark Angels have 21 unique units, ignoring those who only differ in name and minor keywords (masters, deathwing tartaros, ravenwing speeders)
Blood Angels have 18 unique units
RW speeders/bikes/attack bikes actually are unique, they have the "Jink" ability on their datasheet.
I suppose you could put in a little "Keyword, unit name and extra rules" section at the beginning to handle them, as well as some of the space wolf units that get the Blood Claw 4+BS and bezerk charge rule. But I suspect GW would reprint the whole datasheet for the extra rules/weapons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it's worth noting that
1) over half of the current datasheets legal within death guard are reprints from the generic CSM list
2) There have been many questions about WHY exactly many ancillary units like bikers, obliterators, raptors etc that people had in their decades-old death guard armies suddenly stopped being available options for the DG in their new 'dex.
Are DG now immune to the Obliterator virus? Why? Why would they not embrace it as one of nurgle's gifts?
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Dark Angels units I can find that are statistically different than their vanilla counterparts (not just names/keywords): asmodai azrael belial ezekiel lazarus talonmaster sammael on sableclaw sammael on corvex deathwing ancient/apothecary/champion deathwing terminators deathwing knights ravenwing ancient/apothecary/champion ravenwing bike squad ravenwing black knights ravenwing land speeder ravenwing attack bike ravenwing vengeance ravenwing darkshroud nephilim and dark talon.
24 datasheets
Death Guard units that are unique: mortarion typhus lord of contagion malignant plaguecaster plague marines poxwalkers biologis putrifier blightlord terminators deathshroud terminators foul blightspawn plague surgeon tallyman fetid bloatdrone myphitic blight hauler plagueburst crawler
14 datasheets.
Not even close. I haven't combed through blood angels, but I suspect the results would be similar. Again this is only counting stuff where the actual datasheets need to be reprinted to include unique rules like "Jink" on the Ravenwing Land Speeder datasheet or the varying access to weaponry on the Deathwing terminator datasheet, and not stuff that just has slightly altered names like "Interrogator-Chaplain" that can use the same datasheet as a chaplain.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
Death Guard have 15 unique units, including those which are just DG version of generic units, like blightlords or plague casters.
Dark Angels have 21 unique units, ignoring those who only differ in name and minor keywords (masters, deathwing tartaros, ravenwing speeders)
Blood Angels have 18 unique units
RW speeders/bikes/attack bikes actually are unique, they have the "Jink" ability on their datasheet.
I suppose you could put in a little "Keyword, unit name and extra rules" section at the beginning to handle them, as well as some of the space wolf units that get the Blood Claw 4+BS and bezerk charge rule. But I suspect GW would reprint the whole datasheet for the extra rules/weapons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it's worth noting that
1) over half of the current datasheets legal within death guard are reprints from the generic CSM list
2) There have been many questions about WHY exactly many ancillary units like bikers, obliterators, raptors etc that people had in their decades-old death guard armies suddenly stopped being available options for the DG in their new 'dex.
Are DG now immune to the Obliterator virus? Why? Why would they not embrace it as one of nurgle's gifts?
The obliterator virus thing is a bit weird, there are references to mortation helping develop it in the codex iirc, yet the original was a khornate gift to an iron warrior.
Real reason was probably to try and make the army a little more unique and have a negative rather than just being chaos marines with free stuff on top ala space marines.
Assume they became a supplement, they'd logically get all the chaos marine entries back. At that point where is the incentive for playing a none-legion? You just enter the space marine problem again.
the_scotsman wrote: ....Though I would like to see Renegades as a separate book with access to all the imperial equipment, or even a "Brood Brothers' Style rule that allows you to bring stuff like Primaris, the loyalist-specific guns and tanks and things, over to chaos.
So you want Chaos to get everything Chaos has, plus (in terms of SM, at least) everything bar SC (and maybe Chapter-specific units) that the Imperium has?
the_scotsman wrote: ....Though I would like to see Renegades as a separate book with access to all the imperial equipment, or even a "Brood Brothers' Style rule that allows you to bring stuff like Primaris, the loyalist-specific guns and tanks and things, over to chaos.
So you want Chaos to get everything Chaos has, plus (in terms of SM, at least) everything bar SC (and maybe Chapter-specific units) that the Imperium has?
Yeah, feth that noise.
I mean, if it's anything like how Brood Brothers works, you would literally just have to make it so they don't get doctrines (you know, like how chaos stuff currently is) and it'd never be a competitive option.
Just an option for people who want something that it would make perfect sense fluff-wise for renegades to have.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Dark Angels units I can find that are statistically different than their vanilla counterparts (not just names/keywords): asmodai azrael belial ezekiel lazarus talonmaster sammael on sableclaw sammael on corvex deathwing ancient/apothecary/champion deathwing terminators deathwing knights ravenwing ancient/apothecary/champion ravenwing bike squad ravenwing black knights ravenwing land speeder ravenwing attack bike ravenwing vengeance ravenwing darkshroud nephilim and dark talon.
24 datasheets
Death Guard units that are unique: mortarion typhus lord of contagion malignant plaguecaster plague marines poxwalkers biologis putrifier blightlord terminators deathshroud terminators foul blightspawn plague surgeon tallyman fetid bloatdrone myphitic blight hauler plagueburst crawler
14 datasheets.
Not even close. I haven't combed through blood angels, but I suspect the results would be similar. Again this is only counting stuff where the actual datasheets need to be reprinted to include unique rules like "Jink" on the Ravenwing Land Speeder datasheet or the varying access to weaponry on the Deathwing terminator datasheet, and not stuff that just has slightly altered names like "Interrogator-Chaplain" that can use the same datasheet as a chaplain.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
Death Guard have 15 unique units, including those which are just DG version of generic units, like blightlords or plague casters.
Dark Angels have 21 unique units, ignoring those who only differ in name and minor keywords (masters, deathwing tartaros, ravenwing speeders)
Blood Angels have 18 unique units
RW speeders/bikes/attack bikes actually are unique, they have the "Jink" ability on their datasheet.
I suppose you could put in a little "Keyword, unit name and extra rules" section at the beginning to handle them, as well as some of the space wolf units that get the Blood Claw 4+BS and bezerk charge rule. But I suspect GW would reprint the whole datasheet for the extra rules/weapons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it's worth noting that
1) over half of the current datasheets legal within death guard are reprints from the generic CSM list
2) There have been many questions about WHY exactly many ancillary units like bikers, obliterators, raptors etc that people had in their decades-old death guard armies suddenly stopped being available options for the DG in their new 'dex.
Are DG now immune to the Obliterator virus? Why? Why would they not embrace it as one of nurgle's gifts?
The obliterator virus thing is a bit weird, there are references to mortation helping develop it in the codex iirc, yet the original was a khornate gift to an iron warrior.
Real reason was probably to try and make the army a little more unique and have a negative rather than just being chaos marines with free stuff on top ala space marines.
Assume they became a supplement, they'd logically get all the chaos marine entries back. At that point where is the incentive for playing a none-legion? You just enter the space marine problem again.
You know, like how all the competitive space marine lists are only Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels?
oh no wait they aren't that, because the distinction between the Space Wolves chapter tactic and the generic marine chapter tactics allows for those armies to have access to the full or nearly the full marine unit roster while not being overpowering, and you still have plnety of reasons to want to bring any chapter despite all chapters having access to the same shared units.
it was dumb when there were units that ONLY "not blood angels/spacewolves/dark angels" chapters got. I'm sorry. letting Dark Angels have Hunters/Stalkers changed precisely nothing.
And just to preempt the counterargument "but what about muh thunderwolves" yes. Sure. Fine. let everyone have space marine cavalry. it's a big universe. You come up with the reason. Who cares.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Dark Angels units I can find that are statistically different than their vanilla counterparts (not just names/keywords): asmodai azrael belial ezekiel lazarus talonmaster sammael on sableclaw sammael on corvex deathwing ancient/apothecary/champion deathwing terminators deathwing knights ravenwing ancient/apothecary/champion ravenwing bike squad ravenwing black knights ravenwing land speeder ravenwing attack bike ravenwing vengeance ravenwing darkshroud nephilim and dark talon.
24 datasheets
Death Guard units that are unique: mortarion typhus lord of contagion malignant plaguecaster plague marines poxwalkers biologis putrifier blightlord terminators deathshroud terminators foul blightspawn plague surgeon tallyman fetid bloatdrone myphitic blight hauler plagueburst crawler
14 datasheets.
Not even close. I haven't combed through blood angels, but I suspect the results would be similar. Again this is only counting stuff where the actual datasheets need to be reprinted to include unique rules like "Jink" on the Ravenwing Land Speeder datasheet or the varying access to weaponry on the Deathwing terminator datasheet, and not stuff that just has slightly altered names like "Interrogator-Chaplain" that can use the same datasheet as a chaplain.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
Death Guard have 15 unique units, including those which are just DG version of generic units, like blightlords or plague casters.
Dark Angels have 21 unique units, ignoring those who only differ in name and minor keywords (masters, deathwing tartaros, ravenwing speeders)
Blood Angels have 18 unique units
RW speeders/bikes/attack bikes actually are unique, they have the "Jink" ability on their datasheet.
I suppose you could put in a little "Keyword, unit name and extra rules" section at the beginning to handle them, as well as some of the space wolf units that get the Blood Claw 4+BS and bezerk charge rule. But I suspect GW would reprint the whole datasheet for the extra rules/weapons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it's worth noting that
1) over half of the current datasheets legal within death guard are reprints from the generic CSM list
2) There have been many questions about WHY exactly many ancillary units like bikers, obliterators, raptors etc that people had in their decades-old death guard armies suddenly stopped being available options for the DG in their new 'dex.
Are DG now immune to the Obliterator virus? Why? Why would they not embrace it as one of nurgle's gifts?
The obliterator virus thing is a bit weird, there are references to mortation helping develop it in the codex iirc, yet the original was a khornate gift to an iron warrior.
Real reason was probably to try and make the army a little more unique and have a negative rather than just being chaos marines with free stuff on top ala space marines.
Assume they became a supplement, they'd logically get all the chaos marine entries back. At that point where is the incentive for playing a none-legion? You just enter the space marine problem again.
You know, like how all the competitive space marine lists are only Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels?
oh no wait they aren't that, because the distinction between the Space Wolves chapter tactic and the generic marine chapter tactics allows for those armies to have access to the full or nearly the full marine unit roster while not being overpowering, and you still have plnety of reasons to want to bring any chapter despite all chapters having access to the same shared units.
it was dumb when there were units that ONLY "not blood angels/spacewolves/dark angels" chapters got. I'm sorry. letting Dark Angels have Hunters/Stalkers changed precisely nothing.
And just to preempt the counterargument "but what about muh thunderwolves" yes. Sure. Fine. let everyone have space marine cavalry. it's a big universe. You come up with the reason. Who cares.
Easy tiger, it sounds almost like you really missed the point.
Chaos legions are supposed to be more diverse than space marines, if you start applying space marine logic you end up with a heretic startes codex where my custom warband can take what it likes from the various legions, have amazing traits and an extra supplement of content in top. That never ended badly or enraged people for 12 months right?
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Dark Angels units I can find that are statistically different than their vanilla counterparts (not just names/keywords): asmodai azrael belial ezekiel lazarus talonmaster sammael on sableclaw sammael on corvex deathwing ancient/apothecary/champion deathwing terminators deathwing knights ravenwing ancient/apothecary/champion ravenwing bike squad ravenwing black knights ravenwing land speeder ravenwing attack bike ravenwing vengeance ravenwing darkshroud nephilim and dark talon.
24 datasheets
Death Guard units that are unique: mortarion typhus lord of contagion malignant plaguecaster plague marines poxwalkers biologis putrifier blightlord terminators deathshroud terminators foul blightspawn plague surgeon tallyman fetid bloatdrone myphitic blight hauler plagueburst crawler
14 datasheets.
Not even close. I haven't combed through blood angels, but I suspect the results would be similar. Again this is only counting stuff where the actual datasheets need to be reprinted to include unique rules like "Jink" on the Ravenwing Land Speeder datasheet or the varying access to weaponry on the Deathwing terminator datasheet, and not stuff that just has slightly altered names like "Interrogator-Chaplain" that can use the same datasheet as a chaplain.
the_scotsman wrote: In my ideal world, non god worshipping CSM armies would be released in a codex that included more of the loyalist-specific stuff in it, to make up for the relative lack of options compared to the god worshipping legions.
End of the day, I think Chaos will end up in the exact spot Space Marines currently are: One central book that includes ALLLLLLL the datasheets and stuff everyone gets, and then a spinoff supplement for the various legions.
But yeah if you gave me the choice I'd have there be 5 chaos books, with one being some chaos stuff and some imperial stuff (more vehicles, dreadnought variants, flyers, etc so not everything has to be a daemon engine) and that would include legions like Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Renegade chapters that aren't explicitly god-aligned, stuff like that. And then you'd have a daemonkin book for each god.
I'm not sold on supplements for chaos, there are more unique entries for death guard than blood angels and dark angels combined as a guess off top of my head.
Combined between the Angels, they have about twice as many Unique units than Death Guard do.
Death Guard have 15 unique units, including those which are just DG version of generic units, like blightlords or plague casters.
Dark Angels have 21 unique units, ignoring those who only differ in name and minor keywords (masters, deathwing tartaros, ravenwing speeders)
Blood Angels have 18 unique units
RW speeders/bikes/attack bikes actually are unique, they have the "Jink" ability on their datasheet.
I suppose you could put in a little "Keyword, unit name and extra rules" section at the beginning to handle them, as well as some of the space wolf units that get the Blood Claw 4+BS and bezerk charge rule. But I suspect GW would reprint the whole datasheet for the extra rules/weapons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it's worth noting that
1) over half of the current datasheets legal within death guard are reprints from the generic CSM list
2) There have been many questions about WHY exactly many ancillary units like bikers, obliterators, raptors etc that people had in their decades-old death guard armies suddenly stopped being available options for the DG in their new 'dex.
Are DG now immune to the Obliterator virus? Why? Why would they not embrace it as one of nurgle's gifts?
The obliterator virus thing is a bit weird, there are references to mortation helping develop it in the codex iirc, yet the original was a khornate gift to an iron warrior.
Real reason was probably to try and make the army a little more unique and have a negative rather than just being chaos marines with free stuff on top ala space marines.
Assume they became a supplement, they'd logically get all the chaos marine entries back. At that point where is the incentive for playing a none-legion? You just enter the space marine problem again.
You know, like how all the competitive space marine lists are only Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels?
oh no wait they aren't that, because the distinction between the Space Wolves chapter tactic and the generic marine chapter tactics allows for those armies to have access to the full or nearly the full marine unit roster while not being overpowering, and you still have plnety of reasons to want to bring any chapter despite all chapters having access to the same shared units.
it was dumb when there were units that ONLY "not blood angels/spacewolves/dark angels" chapters got. I'm sorry. letting Dark Angels have Hunters/Stalkers changed precisely nothing.
And just to preempt the counterargument "but what about muh thunderwolves" yes. Sure. Fine. let everyone have space marine cavalry. it's a big universe. You come up with the reason. Who cares.
People who actually give a gak about the setting/lore or having faction choice meaningful?
I'm all for more options, customization, etc. being represented on the tabletop and I'll champion that for as long as I play 40k. However, there is nothing that says having drawbacks or lacking options of a neighbor faction is bad, and it is actually good in the case of Death Guard for helping reinforce their faction identity and making their playstyle distinct from standard chaos.
Just because older dexes let you take bikes, raptors, ect doesn't mean that DGMUST still get them, especially with expansion of the lore surrounding DG as well as the introduction of their own unique units to fill those roles. It makes them distinct from someone running a Nurgle CSM warband. (Though the standard CSM units in DG like Chaos Lords should absolutely gain all of the DG special rules. The fact that they already don't is moronic)
The same goes for people whining about Renegade marines not getting Imperial tech, the complaint as it usually plays out makes no sense. "I want to have all the Chaos things, but I also want all the loyalist things."
It just reduces the uniqueness of Space Marines (who themselves are already guilty of stealing much of the unique wargear from from other Imperium factions) and make CSM play even more like Spiky Marines then they already are. Plus it then screws over the Unaligned 5 because then still wouldn't/shouldn't gain access to any of it.
It people honestly want lore accurate/well designed renegades then it should work on a sort of sliding scale. Out of pool Y you can take X amount of Loyalist units and then Y-X amount of Chaos units, which represents the change a Renegade warband faces as it progresses through it's history. They start out with less knowledge/availability/willingness to use Chaos tech, but the longer they spend away from the Imperium the more their old armory gets destroyed and replaced with whatever they can get a hold of from the Dark Mechanicum.
The space marine codex special units issue is an entirely different beast because it gets into the argument of whether or not it's fair that only BA and DA get access to a lot of the specialist loadouts that marines players want for their own chapters (mainly veteran bikers, bike command squads, terminator command squads, psychic dreadnoughts). In lore this is supposed to be representative of the DA's Ravenwing being an incredibly well trained specialist formation (which is terrible logic when you consider that WS get no sort of equivalent) or by DA and BA hording lost STCs (command terminators and psy dreads) which just feels unfair to most other marine players.
But good luck getting GW to ever reevaluate those stances given that they molded BA and DA symbols all over those sprues, and the one thing GW is loathe to do is ever tell anyone to do any amount of minor hobbying in the pursuit of building their miniatures...
Jack Flask wrote: It people honestly want lore accurate/well designed renegades then it should work on a sort of sliding scale. Out of pool Y you can take X amount of Loyalist units and then Y-X amount of Chaos units, which represents the change a Renegade warband faces as it progresses through it's history. They start out with less knowledge/availability/willingness to use Chaos tech, but the longer they spend away from the Imperium the more their old armory gets destroyed and replaced with whatever they can get a hold of from the Dark Mechanicum.
I think this is what most people want. Renegades should be a mix of commonly available units from both factions, but not a deep dive into the secret armories of either.
> Just because older dexes let you take bikes, raptors, ect doesn't mean that DG MUST still get them
Ahem. Those of us who have armies that predate the current codex would like to still be able to use all our models. Especially because, if you do have something like Death Guard Bikers, they were painstakingly converted. 8th edition has been probably the worst edition in terms of invalidating old models, and 9th looks to be continuing that trend. One of the biggest draws, for me, of being a long-term 40k player was that my collection could be used to build the core of an army from one edition to the next, with additions from the new hotness. Recently I've found myself owning more and more models that I can't use, either in the way I used to, or in some cases at all. Especially across my three different Chaos armies. Ironically, people like me are also the ones that "actually give a gak about the setting/lore or having faction choice meaningful", which is why we went to the trouble of building special models to represent esoteric troop types that were (usually) not terribly efficient in game terms.
I would be genuinely shocked if Chaos didn't come after the Crons/Marines.
Apologies to Xenos etc (as I do genuinely support you all) but Chaos is the arch villain of 40k (hell, all Warhammer) so any competent designers shouldn't really leave it too long before giving them the updated treatment.
In addition, they're the next most played faction behind loyalists (i think, contemporary source needed).
Furthermore, the rules updates with 2 wounds, weapons etc means efficiency (and marketing budget) wise, it would be best for CSM at least to get new dexes in November or December at the latest.
I'd not be surprised to see CD, DG, TS and maybe even a supplement for EC (considering the AOS goings on) at the same time or to be at least hinted at. DG won't be a major priority i'd guess as they're in an ok place rules wise and had the most recent PA treatment.
Here's hoping that Xenos get some much needed love first thing in the NY if not before!
Not going to speculate on what's going to change as it's just utterly wish listing. The four cards may hint that they could be releasing 5 books, 4 God specific with relevant daemons & legions and then one undivided with Abaddon etc.
Oryza Sativa wrote: > Just because older dexes let you take bikes, raptors, ect doesn't mean that DG MUST still get them
Ahem. Those of us who have armies that predate the current codex would like to still be able to use all our models. Especially because, if you do have something like Death Guard Bikers, they were painstakingly converted. 8th edition has been probably the worst edition in terms of invalidating old models, and 9th looks to be continuing that trend. One of the biggest draws, for me, of being a long-term 40k player was that my collection could be used to build the core of an army from one edition to the next, with additions from the new hotness. Recently I've found myself owning more and more models that I can't use, either in the way I used to, or in some cases at all. Especially across my three different Chaos armies. Ironically, people like me are also the ones that "actually give a gak about the setting/lore or having faction choice meaningful", which is why we went to the trouble of building special models to represent esoteric troop types that were (usually) not terribly efficient in game terms.
Traditionally death guard had minimal bike and jetpack units, whilst they were restricted in the holy grail that is 3.5 it does say "the death guard are primarily infantry based and lack the specialised fast attack choices available to other chaos forces". The new book just reflects that a little better and given t6 bikers were a standard for a while they're hardly esoteric or under performing historically.
Overall it would be interesting if new Codex structure meant a restructuring and smaller amount of Codizes. Though with Chaos I'm not sure how they could do that without actually ending up with the same amount of books. If you had one Codex for each god(with CSM, DG and Nurgle Daemons in one for example) that would be great for me, but people who played mixed armies would have to buy the same number of books as before.
I guess they could at least put CSM, DG, TS and Chaos Knights in one book without problems...
All in all GW loves their books and aside from a supplement System I don't think that the overall number will become smaller if it wasn't for a radical approach of all Chaos in 1 book, all Eldar in another one, Tyranids and Genestealers in a third, all Imperium but Space Marines in a forth...
@scotsman:
CSM with no major god-affiliation lacking options? Dude, 2nd got you covered. CSM are allowed to field vehicles restricted to SM such as Whirlwinds & Landspeeders by just adding 50% to their respective points cost.
So why haven't you downloaded the Battle Bible by now?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So we don't have any info of what's getting previewed whatsoever huh?
We know they are going to talk about the new Codex for Marines and Necrons and the "new format" and what that means. They might also tease the next codex to come after that since we fairly well know what's coming for those two forces by now. They also teased some models from other races last time with "bits" of them showing so we might see those in full detail (some or all of them).
Right now we know most things up to mid November. We've got a Warcry release with a new boxed set and two warbands; an expansion book for AoS; a new duel Slaanesh and Daughters of Khaine boxed set with a new model for each; Necrons and Marines are going to dominate October with a slew of releases and there's a new Necromunda House book and models to come.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So we don't have any info of what's getting previewed whatsoever huh?
Well....
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/07/new-edition-new-codex-format-new-models-new-preview/ "Want to learn more about what you can look forward to in the new Warhammer 40,000 codexes? Set a reminder for this Saturday to catch your first solid look at the new Space Marines and Necrons books, find out what’s coming next, and witness a few more miniatures reveals for good measure! "
So...
Mostly Codex SM and Codex Necrons, a few more 'reveals' (likely of things we've already seen+ 'primaris land speeder') and a glimpse of 'what's next'
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So we don't have any info of what's getting previewed whatsoever huh?
Well....
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/07/new-edition-new-codex-format-new-models-new-preview/ "Want to learn more about what you can look forward to in the new Warhammer 40,000 codexes? Set a reminder for this Saturday to catch your first solid look at the new Space Marines and Necrons books, find out what’s coming next, and witness a few more miniatures reveals for good measure! "
So...
Mostly Codex SM and Codex Necrons, a few more 'reveals' (likely of things we've already seen+ 'primaris land speeder') and a glimpse of 'what's next'
There was the weird cryptic chaos tarot cards as well.
Warhammer Community Twitter Feed wrote:The Codex Show approaches… Tomorrow sees the most exciting Warhammer 40,000 preview since the launch of the new edition, with news on the future of codexes, new miniature reveals, and more! Whatever you do, don't miss out!
That's the most they've given us since the initial article. They have hinted that we'll see more from the teased non-Marine/Necron bits.
Meh. People are always going to find something to get disappointed about. GW is great at being pedantic though--the last preview, "Shadow and Iron"? They were upfront about that not being 40k heavy...and people got upset about it.
Dysartes wrote: ...someone really needs to curtail GW Marketing's use of the words "most exciting", at least until they have earned the right to use them again.
We've been burned before, after all.
Is the issue that GW is overusing the marketing words or that geeks are not allowing their inner child to get excited enough?
tneva82 wrote: Nah problem is if preview isn't new edition and atleasw dozen kit per faction it's always dissapointing . Can't wait tomorrom's salt tide!
I've no doubt your name will be amongst it with complaints of lack of attention for npc races and how whatever marine stuff is shown will render the game pointless.
Apologies to Xenos etc (as I do genuinely support you all) but Chaos is the arch villain of 40k (hell, all Warhammer) so any competent designers shouldn't really leave it too long before giving them the updated treatment.
I'd say it's always been pretty clear who the real villain is.
Kanluwen wrote: Meh. People are always going to find something to get disappointed about. GW is great at being pedantic though--the last preview, "Shadow and Iron"? They were upfront about that not being 40k heavy...and people got upset about it.
Until they broke out "most exciting" on that tweet, I thought they'd done a good job of managing expectations for this preview - they just couldn't help themselves, though, could they?
Kanluwen wrote: Meh. People are always going to find something to get disappointed about. GW is great at being pedantic though--the last preview, "Shadow and Iron"? They were upfront about that not being 40k heavy...and people got upset about it.
Until they broke out "most exciting" on that tweet, I thought they'd done a good job of managing expectations for this preview - they just couldn't help themselves, though, could they?
It's only the "most exciting Warhammer 40,000 preview since the launch of the new edition" this time, not the most exciting one in the history of the universe. Most exciting 40k preview since a few weeks ago isn't that high a bar; there is a reasonable chance it could be pretty accurate.
Kanluwen wrote: Meh. People are always going to find something to get disappointed about. GW is great at being pedantic though--the last preview, "Shadow and Iron"? They were upfront about that not being 40k heavy...and people got upset about it.
Until they broke out "most exciting" on that tweet, I thought they'd done a good job of managing expectations for this preview - they just couldn't help themselves, though, could they?
It's only the "most exciting Warhammer 40,000 preview since the launch of the new edition" this time, not the most exciting one in the history of the universe. Most exciting 40k preview since a few weeks ago isn't that high a bar; there is a reasonable chance it could be pretty accurate.
Umbros wrote: Why would they not say their announcements are exciting lol. you people are incredible
I think some are just dour because they come from Yorkshire (either in reality or in their heart). The continual rain, accent and human landscape creating a cloud of gloom over them that is hard to shake.
Umbros wrote: Why would they not say their announcements are exciting lol. you people are incredible
I think some are just dour because they come from Yorkshire (either in reality or in their heart). The continual rain, accent and human landscape creating a cloud of gloom over them that is hard to shake.
Yorkshire person, can confirm its rained once this week! I'm one of the less gakky about GW announcements though ironically.
Alright folks, we have 50 minutes until the preview starts!
Just a reminder:
It will go 'live' in 35 minutes, at 0845 Eastern...but that's them opening up the chat, starting up the stream and generally doing a 'Previously On...' style recap.
The actual new stuff will be at 0900 Eastern. I'll be updating the OP as stuff goes up on the Warhammer Community page for me to link here.
Hopefully I'll get to see that sweet, sweet Skitarii HQ!
Kanluwen wrote: Meh. People are always going to find something to get disappointed about. GW is great at being pedantic though--the last preview, "Shadow and Iron"? They were upfront about that not being 40k heavy...and people got upset about it.
Until they broke out "most exciting" on that tweet, I thought they'd done a good job of managing expectations for this preview - they just couldn't help themselves, though, could they?
You're right, they should have gone with 'this terribly dull, dreary preview will be the most skippable one we've ever put out! In fact, it's so dry and boring that all of our presenters plan to hang themselves afterwords out of sheer despair'.
Let's be real though, people on dakka would still complain about it being 'overhyped'.
You're right, they should have gone with 'this terribly dull, dreary preview will be the most skippable one we've ever put out! In fact, it's so dry and boring that all of our presenters plan to hang themselves afterwords out of sheer despair'.
Let's be real though, people on dakka would still complain about it being 'overhyped'.
Y'know social media folks are so into hyperbole, I mean they literally use hyperbole a million times before breakfast, that I sometimes find that understatement can be more effective since it's so novel.
"On Saturday we will have a perfectly adequate and serviceable preview of some products certain customers may find of interest."
Take a first look inside the new Space Marines and Necrons codexes for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 as part of our latest online preview. As well as looking at the best codexes that we've ever made, you can also check out a new range of models for both armies, including updated Flayed Ones and Destroyers for the Necrons, a new Speeder for the Space Marines and much more.
The new Crypteks look outstanding and I really really love the new Flayed ones look. The finecast were ungainly with those odd chunks of human flesh and huge ribcage bodies on top - the new ones are much like the old style with flayed flesh draped over them.
Loving all these! Interesting that the new destroyers are close combat as well, with the same energy blades as well. I'm guessing this means they'll be a likely faster weaker, perhaps more attacks focused close combat unit; with the tri-legged versions perhaps hitting with fewer hits but much harder.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Walker wrote: So does it mean that apart of few named characters Necrons are now all plastic or am I missing some kit?
Barring the Destroyerlord Upgrade kit and a few of their named heroes/leaders. Otherwise yes a fully plastic army range and all modern sculpts pretty much, barring the plastic hover destroyers. Remembering that we've already a new Heavy Destroyer model in plastic.
I literally started clapping when they revealed plastic flayed ones.
A bit mixed on the amount of crypteks now though. On one hand, I love crypteks, so the more, the merrier. On the other, they're giving me strong Oss-Bonelord vibes, which I never cared for. Ultimately though, really really good looking models.
Automatically Appended Next Post: We got 6 new Space Marine kits and 4 new Necron kits so far, if they show of some of the other models teased last time this will be an amazing preview
Sadly, I think this is a 40k only preview. But even so, great reveals. The only ones we knew for certain were the marines, since the captain, speeder, shieldguard, and eradicator kit pics leaked. It's nice to see all the options and everything looks great.
I don’t know if I’m reading it wrong but the options for the heavy intercessors don’t make sense, though I think they have the names slightly wrong after reading it again.
Some mistakes in the wargear options in this datasheet talking about stalker bolt rifles and auto bolt rifles but should probably be executor and hellstorm bolt rifles
Probably changed names during development
"Master crafted heavy bolt rifle" is a gun with a nine syllable name, Have they really run so far through the available concise adjective/noun combinations that they're forced to give a gun a nine syllable name?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. 4 new Codices, and not a single one is Xenos.
Well done GW...
You did just see the Necron Codex right? Getting almost their entire range of models updated; with at least three or four model releases to come already coupled to being the iconic enemies of the main starting box of 40K?
I mean yeah would have been nice, but at the same time I'm kind of glad to see so many Marine supplements coming out so quickly - gets it over and done with
Deathguard get some weird plague furnace terrain kit, evidently.
Hopefully a new deathwatch upgrade kit, since the cover shows some new backpack icons, as well as primaris using the shields that comes in the kill team set
Matrindur wrote: Which Xenos faction could come with the Dark Angels next year?
I hope for Tyranids, with new plastic gaunts, Pyrovore/Biovore double kit, and plastic Dominatrix.
Selfishly I want a year before tyranids - it at least lets my wallet recover from this Necron mania. Also I'd say Tyranids are honestly in a good spot already, Roll on for Craftworld Eldar and Orks who I think need far more model attention first.
It's very unlikely this is the case because the Orks FAQ removes it from the Munitorum Field Manual.
Tell that to the Warhammer Community page
Just refreshed the page now. I'm surprised that they say that explicitly, because then I don't really get the point of them having removed them in the FAQ. I guess because the only existing datasheet was in the Index?
Mr.Church13 wrote: Between COVID and the game being only Marines for the foreseeable future I think I’m done for now boys.
My hype has officially been snuffed out by a mountain of power armor, way to go GW *slow clap*.
Wake me when they get to making eldar models. Otherwise enjoy your game marine players.
There's a Cobra on the front cover of the Imperial Armour book - use it as time to bolster your Eldar with mighty FW models
But then you'd have to HAVE forgeworld models and honestly...why do that to yourself?
Cause many of them are fantastic?
I've got a Malanthrope - Heiroduel and Tombstalker and Warpfire dragon and - want more!
Hope you don't get much direct sunlight where you live because that's a lot of cash just waiting to melt into a (hyperbole) puddle if you leave it near a window too long.
It's very unlikely this is the case because the Orks FAQ removes it from the Munitorum Field Manual.
Tell that to the Warhammer Community page
Just refreshed the page now. I'm surprised that they say that explicitly, because then I don't really get the point of them having removed them in the FAQ. I guess because the only existing datasheet was in the Index?
Probably just removed it until the forge world book is out and will add it back in then
Mr.Church13 wrote: Between COVID and the game being only Marines for the foreseeable future I think I’m done for now boys.
My hype has officially been snuffed out by a mountain of power armor, way to go GW *slow clap*.
Wake me when they get to making eldar models. Otherwise enjoy your game marine players.
There's a Cobra on the front cover of the Imperial Armour book - use it as time to bolster your Eldar with mighty FW models
But then you'd have to HAVE forgeworld models and honestly...why do that to yourself?
Cause many of them are fantastic?
I've got a Malanthrope - Heiroduel and Tombstalker and Warpfire dragon and - want more!
Hope you don't get much direct sunlight where you live because that's a lot of cash just waiting to melt into a (hyperbole) puddle if you leave it near a window too long.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Between COVID and the game being only Marines for the foreseeable future I think I’m done for now boys.
My hype has officially been snuffed out by a mountain of power armor, way to go GW *slow clap*.
Wake me when they get to making eldar models. Otherwise enjoy your game marine players.
There's a Cobra on the front cover of the Imperial Armour book - use it as time to bolster your Eldar with mighty FW models
But then you'd have to HAVE forgeworld models and honestly...why do that to yourself?
Cause many of them are fantastic?
I've got a Malanthrope - Heiroduel and Tombstalker and Warpfire dragon and - want more!
Hope you don't get much direct sunlight where you live because that's a lot of cash just waiting to melt into a (hyperbole) puddle if you leave it near a window too long.
That doesn't really happen in the UK
Honestly I've only seen resin discolour in the sun and that is resins from other firms - my FW hasn't discoloured at all in the sun. But yes we aren't leaving them out in 60 degree sunlight every day for hours at a time amplified through glass.
It's very unlikely this is the case because the Orks FAQ removes it from the Munitorum Field Manual.
Tell that to the Warhammer Community page
Just refreshed the page now. I'm surprised that they say that explicitly, because then I don't really get the point of them having removed them in the FAQ. I guess because the only existing datasheet was in the Index?
Yup. What's the point for points without actual rules to use with?
Mr.Church13 wrote: Between COVID and the game being only Marines for the foreseeable future I think I’m done for now boys.
My hype has officially been snuffed out by a mountain of power armor, way to go GW *slow clap*.
Wake me when they get to making eldar models. Otherwise enjoy your game marine players.
There's a Cobra on the front cover of the Imperial Armour book - use it as time to bolster your Eldar with mighty FW models
But then you'd have to HAVE forgeworld models and honestly...why do that to yourself?
Cause many of them are fantastic?
I've got a Malanthrope - Heiroduel and Tombstalker and Warpfire dragon and - want more!
Hope you don't get much direct sunlight where you live because that's a lot of cash just waiting to melt into a (hyperbole) puddle if you leave it near a window too long.
That doesn't really happen in the UK
That must be how people in the UK can justify buying forgeworld direct. With my experiences with forgeworld's...quality, I'd pretty much never buy anything that wasn't recast in something a little bit more robust than their resin. I have one plane that ended up just being a 200$ glob of silly putty, that's plenty.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Between COVID and the game being only Marines for the foreseeable future I think I’m done for now boys.
My hype has officially been snuffed out by a mountain of power armor, way to go GW *slow clap*.
Wake me when they get to making eldar models. Otherwise enjoy your game marine players.
There's a Cobra on the front cover of the Imperial Armour book - use it as time to bolster your Eldar with mighty FW models
But then you'd have to HAVE forgeworld models and honestly...why do that to yourself?
Cause many of them are fantastic?
I've got a Malanthrope - Heiroduel and Tombstalker and Warpfire dragon and - want more!
Hope you don't get much direct sunlight where you live because that's a lot of cash just waiting to melt into a (hyperbole) puddle if you leave it near a window too long.
That doesn't really happen in the UK
Honestly I've only seen resin discolour in the sun and that is resins from other firms - my FW hasn't discoloured at all in the sun. But yes we aren't leaving them out in 60 degree sunlight every day for hours at a time amplified through glass.
Or in the car for 15 minutes while you get gas and a soda on the way to the FLGS.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. 4 new Codices, and not a single one is Xenos.
Well done GW...
You did just see the Necron Codex right? Getting almost their entire range of models updated; with at least three or four model releases to come already coupled to being the iconic enemies of the main starting box of 40K?
I mean yeah would have been nice, but at the same time I'm kind of glad to see so many Marine supplements coming out so quickly - gets it over and done with
Honestly I've only seen resin discolour in the sun and that is resins from other firms - my FW hasn't discoloured at all in the sun. But yes we aren't leaving them out in 60 degree sunlight every day for hours at a time amplified through glass.
Or in the car for 15 minutes while you get gas and a soda on the way to the FLGS.
Are you actually buying Forge World, because I live in an area that gets record heat+sun every year and yet have never had any of these problems?
So from this we can gather that the next few codex releases are
Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Black Templar, Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Chaos Space Marines, Spears of the Emperor, Charcarodons, Marine Codex V2, Blood Angels V2, Space Wolves V2, and so on.
I mean realistically they never have to print another Xenos dex ever again at this rate.
So the two "gaps" we have in all those reveals are:
1. No Outrider kit. Very important if we want our Outrider Sergeants to actually have options. 2. No new Destroyers to replace the current green-rod ones.
tneva82 wrote:Nah problem is if preview isn't new edition and atleasw dozen kit per faction it's always dissapointing . Can't wait tomorrom's salt tide!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. 4 new Codices, and not a single one is Xenos.
Well done GW...
You did just see the Necron Codex right? Getting almost their entire range of models updated; with at least three or four model releases to come already coupled to being the iconic enemies of the main starting box of 40K?
I mean yeah would have been nice, but at the same time I'm kind of glad to see so many Marine supplements coming out so quickly - gets it over and done with
Just in time for more marine books
Ahhhg refreshing.
It's 3 marine supplements. It was obvious it was happening, they're not full codex releases and in reality in 2020 you have 3 codex releases: space marines, necrons and death guard. Weird that's an even split between chaos, imperium and xenos.
Honestly I've only seen resin discolour in the sun and that is resins from other firms - my FW hasn't discoloured at all in the sun. But yes we aren't leaving them out in 60 degree sunlight every day for hours at a time amplified through glass.
Or in the car for 15 minutes while you get gas and a soda on the way to the FLGS.
Are you actually buying Forge World, because I live in an area that gets record heat+sun every year and yet have never had any of these problems?
I have 2 forgeworld models, an Avenger strike fighter and an Alpha legion contemptor. Both have significantly melted during relatively short trips in the car. I don't care if it was only an issue with those 2 casts. Considering the average forgeworld model is already hilariously overpriced, I don't feel like it's too much to ask that melting in direct sunlight not be a significant issue I have to contend with.
I've left my recast(as it turns out) repressor in my car in 90+ degree weather for a week straight without issue.
Ignoring the usual moaners moaning about anything the can think to moan about, I thought that was a solid preview.
Filling out a complete range review for the Necrons with some amazing kits. All of the expected marine releases look great. Then the next few codices can be rushed out for ranges that are already, pretty much complete and don’t require extensive model releases. Hopefully that means we’ll see the next big range review early in 2021 and hopefully it’ll be a complete revamp of something long neglected.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I like how the new Destroyers look almost exactly like the original Wraiths
But different enough that you can't really use the old models.
Eh there'd be nothing to stop you using them. Perhaps rebasing and such, but the overall style is the same, the only "missing" part is the overlarge blades. Otherwise the new designs work well, they even have the little ball on a stick hover system that we see on other hover units for necrons.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Ignoring the usual moaners moaning about anything the can think to moan about, I thought that was a solid preview.
Filling out a complete range review for the Necrons with some amazing kits. All of the expected marine releases look great. Then the next few codices can be rushed out for ranges that are already, pretty much complete and don’t require extensive model releases. Hopefully that means we’ll see the next big range review early in 2021 and hopefully it’ll be a complete revamp of something long neglected.
Mr.Church13 wrote: So from this we can gather that the next few codex releases are
Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Black Templar, Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Chaos Space Marines, Spears of the Emperor, Charcarodons, Marine Codex V2, Blood Angels V2, Space Wolves V2, and so on.
I mean realistically they never have to print another Xenos dex ever again at this rate.
Didn’t they say aside from supplements shown it’s just DA, as you can use the older supplements with the new book (UM mentioned wasn’t it?)
What were those big blight chimney things during the deathguard preview? I didn't recognize them and can't find them on the games workshop site. Are they new?
tneva82 wrote:Nah problem is if preview isn't new edition and atleasw dozen kit per faction it's always dissapointing . Can't wait tomorrom's salt tide!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wow. 4 new Codices, and not a single one is Xenos.
Well done GW...
You did just see the Necron Codex right? Getting almost their entire range of models updated; with at least three or four model releases to come already coupled to being the iconic enemies of the main starting box of 40K?
I mean yeah would have been nice, but at the same time I'm kind of glad to see so many Marine supplements coming out so quickly - gets it over and done with
Just in time for more marine books
Ahhhg refreshing.
It's 3 marine supplements. It was obvious it was happening, they're not full codex releases and in reality in 2020 you have 3 codex releases: space marines, necrons and death guard. Weird that's an even split between chaos, imperium and xenos.
I'm talking about post-da. Person is thinking that marines would be done with da supplement but he's mistaken. There will be more marine books with just occasional non-loalist marine book in between. For one redo ultramarine etc supplements and if gw runs out of ideas supplements for individual companies.
Gw's main cash cow is marines. Specfically loyal ones. They aren"t quickly done with. If you accept it like me it just amuses you.
And going back to the next few codexes all being marine, not sure the supplements count (like last time they’ll just be thrown out quick).
The next three books are a Xenos, Imperium and Chaos. So a good mix.
Yeah if we talk books in general it’s Marine heavy, but only if you want to get argumentative or complainy.
mortar_crew wrote: I cannot believe that they release the Deathwatch in the first line,
Given that Deathwatch got excised from PA and havent seen any significant rules updates since their 8th edition codex, they needed to be in the first wave.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Ignoring the usual moaners moaning about anything the can think to moan about, I thought that was a solid preview.
Filling out a complete range review for the Necrons with some amazing kits. All of the expected marine releases look great. Then the next few codices can be rushed out for ranges that are already, pretty much complete and don’t require extensive model releases. Hopefully that means we’ll see the next big range review early in 2021 and hopefully it’ll be a complete revamp of something long neglected.
Yeah but it's more. Fething. Marines.
Which clearly a lot of people are excited about, otherwise they would keep releasing them.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Ignoring the usual moaners moaning about anything the can think to moan about, I thought that was a solid preview.
Filling out a complete range review for the Necrons with some amazing kits. All of the expected marine releases look great. Then the next few codices can be rushed out for ranges that are already, pretty much complete and don’t require extensive model releases. Hopefully that means we’ll see the next big range review early in 2021 and hopefully it’ll be a complete revamp of something long neglected.
Yeah despite the usual marine overuse, the only releases left for this year (unless they change their mid) are already done and prepared, Death guard it's realtively new and already own quite a broad range of models (not saying they coudn't use some new unit for some reason aside the character and terrain show on video).
So there is actually chances they may be revamped some other army models units in this spawn instead of just a codex with updated rules.
P.S: or thay are just clearing the backlog from the Covid pandemic.
Mr.Church13 wrote: So from this we can gather that the next few codex releases are
Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Black Templar, Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Chaos Space Marines, Spears of the Emperor, Charcarodons, Marine Codex V2, Blood Angels V2, Space Wolves V2, and so on.
I mean realistically they never have to print another Xenos dex ever again at this rate.
Didn’t they say aside from supplements shown it’s just DA, as you can use the older supplements with the new book (UM mentioned wasn’t it?)
Yea you can use them. Like you can use your ork codex now. Doesn't mean new one isn't coming. It's "print money" button. You think gw doesn't want money?
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Ignoring the usual moaners moaning about anything the can think to moan about, I thought that was a solid preview.
Filling out a complete range review for the Necrons with some amazing kits. All of the expected marine releases look great. Then the next few codices can be rushed out for ranges that are already, pretty much complete and don’t require extensive model releases. Hopefully that means we’ll see the next big range review early in 2021 and hopefully it’ll be a complete revamp of something long neglected.
Yeah but it's more. Fething. Marines.
Of. Course. It. Is.
They told us they were getting a codex in October last month, we know they had more kits on the way, they have 4 more codex to replace via supplements which they're kindly getting out the way with likely no model support.
Wigum211 wrote: I thought it was a pretty solid reveal for the two upcoming codices. The new necron stuff looks really cool.
I then audibly groaned when they went on to reveal that three of the next four codices would be even more bloody space Marines.
I always assumed that the next few codices after Necrons and Marines would be rushed out with next to zero model support. Is that really what Xenos players want?
Sasori wrote: Whelp, I am completely shocked at this point.
I didn't really think we were getting one new model, much less 4 more.
And they, IMO, all look great. I dread the price of 5 plastic Flayed Ones (they'll somehow end up being more expensive than the Wraithguard kit, mark my words), but I'm very happy they exist.
Sasori wrote: I wonder if this means that we are getting revamped regular destroyers now as well.
I think that was it. I think this preview was everything that's left to come out for the Marine and Necron books.
That means no new proper Destroyers, no multi-part Outrider kit and no proper Suppressors kit. Real shame.
Domandi wrote: What were those big blight chimney things during the deathguard preview? I didn't recognize them and can't find them on the games workshop site. Are they new?
Sasori wrote: Whelp, I am completely shocked at this point.
I didn't really think we were getting one new model, much less 4 more.
And they, IMO, all look great. I dread the price of 5 plastic Flayed Ones (they'll somehow end up being more expensive than the Wraithguard kit, mark my words), but I'm very happy they exist.
Sasori wrote: I wonder if this means that we are getting revamped regular destroyers now as well.
I think that was it. I think this preview was everything that's left to come out for the Marine and Necron books.
That means no new proper Destroyers, no multi-part Outrider kit and no proper Suppressors kit. Real shame.
Domandi wrote: What were those big blight chimney things during the deathguard preview? I didn't recognize them and can't find them on the games workshop site. Are they new?
That is new.
If flayed ones can be field at troops Necron players can be lucky and find a 10man troop box if not expect them to be worth the same as the new Eldar Banshes.
There has to be more coming as there isn't a way to buy a Judicar, Bladeguard Ancient, Plasmancer, Crypthothralls, Skorpekh Lord or Canoptek Reanimator with Indomitus gone and I also don't think they will put those sprues into Start Collecting boxes so there has to be new versions of them coming
Lord Perversor wrote: ... expect them to be worth the same as the new Eldar Banshes.
Which are inexplicably 163% the price of the Wraithguard kit.
Matrindur wrote: There has to be more coming as there isn't a way to buy a Judicar, Bladeguard Ancient, Plasmancer, Crypthothralls, Skorpekh Lord or Canoptek Reanimator with Indomitus gone and I also don't think they will put those sprues into Start Collecting boxes so there has to be new versions of them coming
You are right. I had forgotten that Indomitus had gone away.
I believe that the big multi-unit sprues from that box will, as you say, go on to be new Start Collectings.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Congrats to the Marine players for all the new stuff.
Fortunately my group has gone to 30k to get away from all the Marines.
Yes because there's no Marines or Imperials in 30K
Honestly we've got 1 Xenos codex, 1 Chaos Codex and 1 Marine Codex then 3 supplement documents for the Marine Codex and 1 FW Document for ALL races.
Of those the Xenos and Marines are getting a slew of new models and I'd argue that Necrons are getting a lions share compared to the Marines.
I'd call that a pretty fair and even spread. Sure there's more marines after the codex, but they are all bolt-ons to the core codex. So it makes sense that they come out fast because those armies are all using the same core codex.
Honest to God, what is with all the whingers about there being marines in the marine and necron codex preview. We've known for weeks about heavy intercessors and the speeders etc.
Why there is a compulsion to come on and try and act clever with the "durrrrr omg more marines! What a horrid surprise!" reactions?
Same with the books, we know that codex BA, DA, SW & DW were being made obsolete with the new codex, why is it a shocker that they're early in the book cycle?
Dudeface wrote: Honest to God, what is with all the whingers about there being marines in the marine and necron codex preview. We've known for weeks about heavy intercessors and the speeders etc.
Why there is a compulsion to come on and try and act clever with the "durrrrr omg more marines! What a horrid surprise!" reactions?
Same with the books, we know that codex BA, DA, SW & DW were being made obsolete with the new codex, why is it a shocker that they're early in the book cycle?
Because it’s Dakka. Every time I decide to give Dakka another chance I quickly regret it. I’m honestly thinking of asking them to delete my account.
Yeah I thought it was pretty good- Really impressed with this Necron revamp, I love the new characters. Hopefully they will take this approach with the other Xenos factions. Don't mind the next few books being marines either as they are mostly supplements. The new year should bring some fresh stuff and I'm happy enough to wait and not have to spend any cash for the next wee while.
ugh. The joke about "making more primaris" is literally the same they made 2 years ago about opening new Stormcast chambers. Except then it was kinda charming and followed by zero new SCE releases since. Here we actually know we'll just get more marines crammed down everyone's throats.
The heavy armor marines look neat, if again entirely redundant.
The flying brick thingy is the worst vehicle model GW ever produced, period. That includes the deo stick tank from Rogue Trader.
The only ray of sunshine I see is if they get out all of the "mandatory" SM supplements so they can actually get around to factions that need the updates. But knowing GW, it seems like they overcompensate with every non-SM release with like 5 SM model kits, so we'll see what other things GW is hiding in their collective model bum.
Good times for marine and Necron players. As a sisters and guard player, I can welcome the shadows for now. Hoping for a guard revamp 2021, traitor guard, dark mechanics. Only thing from that prieview that I want to know more about is the Imperial Compendium. Repressor and Taurus Venator datasheet? Any idea on a timetable for that?
Cronch wrote: ugh. The joke about "making more primaris" is literally the same they made 2 years ago about opening new Stormcast chambers. Except then it was kinda charming and followed by zero new SCE releases since. Here we actually know we'll just get more marines crammed down everyone's throats.
The heavy armor marines look neat, if again entirely redundant.
The flying brick thingy is the worst vehicle model GW ever produced, period. That includes the deo stick tank from Rogue Trader.
Yes! Because my subjective opinion is FACT! Nobody plays marines because they love marines. It’s because FW force them to, they’d all rather be playing my favourite army but GW dies release any models for it because they are idiots who hate money!
Lord Perversor wrote: ... expect them to be worth the same as the new Eldar Banshes.
Which are inexplicably 163% the price of the Wraithguard kit.
Matrindur wrote: There has to be more coming as there isn't a way to buy a Judicar, Bladeguard Ancient, Plasmancer, Crypthothralls, Skorpekh Lord or Canoptek Reanimator with Indomitus gone and I also don't think they will put those sprues into Start Collecting boxes so there has to be new versions of them coming
You are right. I had forgotten that Indomitus had gone away.
I believe that the big multi-unit sprues from that box will, as you say, go on to be new Start Collectings.
I actually don't think they will be Start Collecting boxes as none of them have any kind of base to start collecting, the necron one doesn't even have a normal unit (I count the Cryptothralls as part of the Plasmancer) and if they put some troops or other units in there too I think the SC will get too big compared to normal ones
I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.
I assume they’ll keep making the old marines for as long as people keep buying them, but they’ll start dropping units as soon as sales of that unit fall below some profit based threshold.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.
I’ve never really collected marines, but I’m now thinking about a small, all gravis armoured force. They have a weight and brutality that was in the Wil Rees illustrations in Rogue Trader, but I always thought was lacking in the miniatures until now.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.
I assume they’ll keep making the old marines for as long as people keep buying them, but they’ll start dropping units as soon as sales of that unit fall below some profit based threshold.
Oh definitely. If it prints money it prints money.
I imagine we'll see the fringe SM units disappear before we see the classic Tac Marine go away.
Not unexpected (actually expected DA to be this year too, so that was a surprise). Deathwatch is basically a new army now.
I really think that 2021 is going to be the year of the Aeldari. They are going to see major changes in their model line.
Unit1126PLL wrote: And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!
This is a complete and utter nonsense seeing there are THREE equivalents of Codex: SM in 30K, plus TWENTY supplements (18 for legions, blackshields, and errants), plus all the rules in NINE black books, as compared to one Codex with nine supplements in 40K. That despite not only 40K marines being more divergent than 30K ones, but also the books combining two armies (squatmarines and primaris) instead of being just filled with 847895786 variations of tactical squad 30K has. If 40K was anywhere like 30K, you'd have 90 supplements for SM, one per each company, describing the incredible difference in rites of war between 3rd and 4th companies of Iron Hands.
Sometimes the whinge here gets so inane I am wondering if it's posted from some alternate reality, but claiming 30K is somehow better than 40K despite being several times worse takes writing from Bizarro land, not just twisted dimension
I think the 'problem' with getting marines out the way, or doing the xenos later because (maybe) they are getting range refreshes ala the Necrons is simple. It is great, if it is happening, that Eldar or whoever might be getting another large range refresh, maybe it is great that marines are being 'got out the way' to leave a clean run for none marine releases in the new year.
None of that is going to improve the gaming experiences of Eldar, Tyranid etc players in the next at least 4-5 months. The gap between those who have a codex and those who don't is going to be huge, especially for xenos, who are going to have to wait for thier codex for:
1) Any weapon profile upgrades and
2) Their army doctrine equivalent
Most armies were well behind the power curve post the 2.0 marine codex at the back end of 8th/early 9th. That is going to be exacerbated by the slew of new units, abilities and rules the new codexes (and supplements) will introduce. I'm not saying those armies without a 9th edition codex will be tabled every time but it will feel like playing with one hand tied behind your back.
I get some players are more pragmatic and might say 'well, I'll take 5-6 months of being handicapped for a large range and rules refresh. However, it is equally justified to feel miffed that the game you love to play is probably going to suck for the next half a year or more maybe because GW decided what we needed right now was even more marine books and rules.
Matrindur wrote: I actually don't think they will be Start Collecting boxes as none of them have any kind of base to start collecting, the necron one doesn't even have a normal unit (I count the Cryptothralls as part of the Plasmancer) and if they put some troops or other units in there too I think the SC will get too big compared to normal ones
Well of course they'll put some regular units in there. I wasn't expecting those big sprues from Indomitus to be the only things in the box.
They'll probably throw in 5 Assault Intercessors and some Outriders for the Marines, and a set of EZ2B Warriors for the Necrons.
bullyboy wrote: Not unexpected (actually expected DA to be this year too, so that was a surprise). Deathwatch is basically a new army now.
I really think that 2021 is going to be the year of the Aeldari. They are going to see major changes in their model line.
They are currently with the oldest line with the most abundance of resin and non-plastic materials. If they don't do a rework of them in the next year or two I can just as well expect them to squat CW.
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Necronmaniac05 wrote: I think the 'problem' with getting marines out the way, or doing the xenos later because (maybe) they are getting range refreshes ala the Necrons is simple. It is great, if it is happening, that Eldar or whoever might be getting another large range refresh, maybe it is great that marines are being 'got out the way' to leave a clean run for none marine releases in the new year.
None of that is going to improve the gaming experiences of Eldar, Tyranid etc players in the next at least 4-5 months. The gap between those who have a codex and those who don't is going to be huge, especially for xenos, who are going to have to wait for thier codex for:
1) Any weapon profile upgrades and
2) Their army doctrine equivalent
Most armies were well behind the power curve post the 2.0 marine codex at the back end of 8th/early 9th. That is going to be exacerbated by the slew of new units, abilities and rules the new codexes (and supplements) will introduce. I'm not saying those armies without a 9th edition codex will be tabled every time but it will feel like playing with one hand tied behind your back.
I get some players are more pragmatic and might say 'well, I'll take 5-6 months of being handicapped for a large range and rules refresh. However, it is equally justified to feel miffed that the game you love to play is probably going to suck for the next half a year or more maybe because GW decided what we needed right now was even more marine books and rules.
I agree on many points. I am currently just playing my Death Guard(which does make me happy that their codex refresh is on the way), but it saddens me that my CW and Drukhari are very boring to play now, especially in this power armor meta. Almost every single person in my larger play group is now some sort of Power Armor except maybe one Tau player. Otherwise it is Space Marines 90% of the time and then I am there with my Death Guard.
Just caught up to everything in the preview, and... I've gotta say I'm really hyped for 2021 and beyond.
To those complaining about the Marine releases - think about it. REALLY think about it. We get supplements for the snowflake Chapters up-front and they've already said the existing supplements are compatible - so we're not likely to see new ones for Fists, White Scars etc. for a while at least. The speedy nature of those releases plus the Marines being rolled back into the core Codex tells me that they're going to be considered done with for a time - and that to me says that after the Marine catch-up is done, Xenos and Chaos get their time in the limelight. If we have Codex creep, we might even see Marines becoming the kicking-boys for other armies for a short while (until we get Marines 9th ed 2.0, at least).
But more than that - with what looks like another aggressive Codex release schedule, we might well get a new faction or two towards the edition's end. Look at what happened with the last few editions - once all the existing Codexes got done and dusted to catch people up, we got Knights, Chaos Knights, Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, Sisters AND Custodes. That's a slew of factions that some people thought would never see the tabletop - and apart from arguably Custodes, none of them are Marines. (...let's... NOT talk about Ynnari, eh.)
I'm also happy that Death Guard are coming first and early in a wave of other releases, because it means they're not likely to change much... leaving more room later for World Eaters and/or Emperor's Children to finally get their own books.
SOoo... RAW, the Ophydian Destroyers have 6 attacks despite their profile being A3.
Allocate 2 attacks using Hyperphase threshers = 3 total attacks with the threshers.
Allocate 1 attach using Ophydian claws = 3 total attacks with the claws.
Indeed. This is exactly what I hoped and expected to see. All the new primaris models look superb, and I'm very exited.
No multipart bikes though? That's a bit strange.
I wouldn't rule out a multi-part Outrider kit coming out alongside the DA next year - not saying I know it'll happen, just that I wouldn't rule it out.
I think the only real disappointment in the preview is that we didn't get to see the other 3 (I think) models from the last preview's teaser video - AdMech, DE & Ork, wasn't it?
Why release new Primaris marines in the edition box, new Space Marine codex, new Space Marine supplements, new Space Marine models, all in one blob, and then drop them for 2 years?
My claims are:
1) This is a new business model and it really is all space marines all the time - no one will get released without having a slew of SM alongside them
OR
2) This is a really dumb way to release things, because it gives Marine fatigue to people like me AND neglects the people that like marines for like 2 years since everything is already done so THEY get to watch a parade of releases that isn't exciting for them.
Surely, it would be best to sprinkle marine releases out among the other releases.
oni wrote: SOoo... RAW, the Ophydian Destroyers have 6 attacks despite their profile being A3.
Allocate 2 attacks using Hyperphase threshers = 3 total attacks with the threshers.
Allocate 1 attach using Ophydian claws = 3 total attacks with the claws.
Yes, six attacks (or 5 for the big blade), but no- You don't have to 'allocate' specific weapons to get the bonus attacks, they just happen each time the bearer fights.
1 model has the reap-blade, he gets 3 attacks with that (plus more on 6s), plus 2 claw attacks
2 models have the threshers, they get 4 attacks with that (3+1) plus 2 claw attacks.
oni wrote: SOoo... RAW, the Ophydian Destroyers have 6 attacks despite their profile being A3.
Allocate 2 attacks using Hyperphase threshers = 3 total attacks with the threshers.
Allocate 1 attach using Ophydian claws = 3 total attacks with the claws.
Yeah, certainly looks like it. The twist being of course that you end up using both weapon profiles to get the extra Attacks, but that's not exactly a hardship.
I guess the intent was to have 6 Attacks intentionally, but split between the weapon types so that you're forced into using both and not just allocating every attack to the threshers. But it sure as hell looks complicated on the datasheet, and I hope it's not an indicator of things to come for other units and Codexes.
Glad to see space wolves along with the imperial armour book are on their way.. hopefully there with be rules in the book for the old guard laser destroyer and atlas recovery vehicles.
I'm liking the Heavy Intercessors solely for the fact I'm using Boarding Shield Marines as my Intercessor stand-ins. With everyone being at W2, it seems like the perfect entry to use for the shield representing extra toughness. I don't like their Sergeant not getting options just based on that preview but I guess I'll have to wait for the codex and see.
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Mr.Church13 wrote: So from this we can gather that the next few codex releases are
Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Black Templar, Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Chaos Space Marines, Spears of the Emperor, Charcarodons, Marine Codex V2, Blood Angels V2, Space Wolves V2, and so on.
I mean realistically they never have to print another Xenos dex ever again at this rate.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuh what was previewed for Carcharodons???
Nothing he was just joking about spam marine supplements instead codex for other armies non Marine.
Also i find curious that the Heavy Intercessors are weapon locked by the Heavy bolter. you are locked to the basic weapon with the Heavy bolter or get the Special Heavy Bolters and be able to swap everyone else weapons.... (expect an Errata soon after codex hits )
So I am mildly curious about the Countertemporal Nanomites ability. It says "pick a unit within 18 inches" to apply its debuff to. How would this interact with a unit embarked on a transport?
Would it:
A) The debuff only affects the transport, and the unit may disembark and advance/charge normally.
B) The debuff affects both the transport and the unit inside of it.
I can easily see an argument for both. For A, the unit on board is technically a different unit from the one selected (the transport), but for B, well, the unit is inside of the transport and it would make sense for the unit to be harmed by the debuff.
I would personally guess A simply because GW usually tries to differentiate between the unit in the transport and the transport itself, what with auras, abilities, etc not working and for the most part the unit counting as not there. On the same coin, I'd personally prefer B to be the actual ruling since it gives the ability a slightly wider use.
Matrindur wrote: I actually don't think they will be Start Collecting boxes as none of them have any kind of base to start collecting, the necron one doesn't even have a normal unit (I count the Cryptothralls as part of the Plasmancer) and if they put some troops or other units in there too I think the SC will get too big compared to normal ones
Well of course they'll put some regular units in there. I wasn't expecting those big sprues from Indomitus to be the only things in the box.
They'll probably throw in 5 Assault Intercessors and some Outriders for the Marines, and a set of EZ2B Warriors for the Necrons.
But 5 Assault Intercessors and Outriders would overlap too much with the Command/Elite edition and if we won't get the Dark Imperium characters (except the Gravis Captain) as multipart releases those halves should be repackaged into SC too.
Lord Perversor wrote: Nothing he was just joking about spam marine supplements instead codex for other armies non Marine.
Also i find curious that the Heavy Intercessors are weapon locked by the Heavy bolter. you are locked to the basic weapon with the Heavy bolter or get the Special Heavy Bolters and be able to swap everyone else weapons.... (expect an Errata soon after codex hits )
Oh. That was mean.
Also I got it after reading it twice, because they mixed up names. If you're using the default Bolt Rifle, you get the option for a Heavy Bolter. If you pick that Heavy Bolter, no switching to any of the other guns.
So if you dont have it, you can switch to the other guns. Those guns unlock their own variation of that Heavy Bolter. It's a convoluted way to word it but it does technically work.
Unit1126PLL wrote: And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!
This is a complete and utter nonsense seeing there are THREE equivalents of Codex: SM in 30K, plus TWENTY supplements (18 for legions, blackshields, and errants), plus all the rules in NINE black books, as compared to one Codex with nine supplements in 40K. That despite not only 40K marines being more divergent than 30K ones, but also the books combining two armies (squatmarines and primaris) instead of being just filled with 847895786 variations of tactical squad 30K has. If 40K was anywhere like 30K, you'd have 90 supplements for SM, one per each company, describing the incredible difference in rites of war between 3rd and 4th companies of Iron Hands.
Sometimes the whinge here gets so inane I am wondering if it's posted from some alternate reality, but claiming 30K is somehow better than 40K despite being several times worse takes writing from Bizarro land, not just twisted dimension
Dakka is known as being pretty negative about things for the wrong reasons. It's pretty much just how Dakka is now.
So have do people feel about the heavy intercessor weapon options outside the clarity of the wording? Like which option to choose.I really want to get bunch of these guys, they look absolutely rad.
And does it seem that they're a dual kit with the eradicators of a separate kit?
Unit1126PLL wrote: And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!
This is a complete and utter nonsense seeing there are THREE equivalents of Codex: SM in 30K, plus TWENTY supplements (18 for legions, blackshields, and errants), plus all the rules in NINE black books, as compared to one Codex with nine supplements in 40K. That despite not only 40K marines being more divergent than 30K ones, but also the books combining two armies (squatmarines and primaris) instead of being just filled with 847895786 variations of tactical squad 30K has. If 40K was anywhere like 30K, you'd have 90 supplements for SM, one per each company, describing the incredible difference in rites of war between 3rd and 4th companies of Iron Hands.
Sometimes the whinge here gets so inane I am wondering if it's posted from some alternate reality, but claiming 30K is somehow better than 40K despite being several times worse takes writing from Bizarro land, not just twisted dimension
Dakka is known as being pretty negative about things for the wrong reasons. It's pretty much just how Dakka is now.
kurhanik wrote: So I am mildly curious about the Countertemporal Nanomites ability. It says "pick a unit within 18 inches" to apply its debuff to. How would this interact with a unit embarked on a transport?
Well, the whole "abilities" thing for embarked units still needs clearing up, but for this one it seems pretty clear. An embarked unit isn't on the tabletop - therefore, it isn't within 18" of the Chronomancer, so you can't choose that unit.
You can choose their transport, but the debuff won't carry over onto the embarked unit because it has no permission to (this would also break the Nanomites' own wording of selecting only one enemy unit, which you've already chosen as the transport).
Wigum211 wrote: After Intercessors, Incursors, Infiltrators and 2w Tactical Marines... Was another bolter based heavy infantry troops unit reeeaaaly necessary?
Wigum211 wrote: After Intercessors, Incursors, Infiltrators and 2w Tactical Marines... Was another bolter based heavy infantry troops unit reeeaaaly necessary?
In a game of imaginary toy soldiers, what does necessary have to do with anything?
Besides, Gravis Marines are the Primaris Terminators. Can't have terminators walking around with regular bolters or bolt rifles, so Heavy Bolt Rifles (and variants) it is.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I like how the new Destroyers look almost exactly like the original Wraiths
But different enough that you can't really use the old models.
I'm still going to use them as destroyers.
They look more like Ophydians now than Canoptek Wraiths anyway. They just don't have the silly extra arms that make no sense because there's no real way they can articulate them.
Wigum211 wrote: After Intercessors, Incursors, Infiltrators and 2w Tactical Marines... Was another bolter based heavy infantry troops unit reeeaaaly necessary?
I find them an interesting unit, at 7pl, theyre not cheap by any stretch, probably 150ish, but their output is pretty low all things considered. They fill a niche of really durable objective humpers that aren't really going to accomplish much of a return.
Crimson wrote: So have do people feel about the heavy intercessor weapon options outside the clarity of the wording? Like which option to choose.I really want to get bunch of these guys, they look absolutely rad.
And does it seem that they're a dual kit with the eradicators of a separate kit?
As with regular Intercessor weapons, it's going to depend on your faction. White Scars will want the Assault version, Ultramarines will want the Rapid Fire, and so on.
New basic Hv Marines are good - they look very cool.
Bladeguard Veterans are again good looking models
The Speeder is....ok I guess....not really impressed
New Necrons are also impressive but look fragile (in terms of model breakage)
Great looking Deathguard model
Nice to see the FW book, and I think most of us were expecting the Wolves and Angels having their books asap, hopefully with all the bonus Primaris stuff for them in main codex thats them done and everyone else can get a look in.
Unit1126PLL wrote: And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!
This is a complete and utter nonsense seeing there are THREE equivalents of Codex: SM in 30K, plus TWENTY supplements (18 for legions, blackshields, and errants), plus all the rules in NINE black books, as compared to one Codex with nine supplements in 40K. That despite not only 40K marines being more divergent than 30K ones, but also the books combining two armies (squatmarines and primaris) instead of being just filled with 847895786 variations of tactical squad 30K has. If 40K was anywhere like 30K, you'd have 90 supplements for SM, one per each company, describing the incredible difference in rites of war between 3rd and 4th companies of Iron Hands.
Sometimes the whinge here gets so inane I am wondering if it's posted from some alternate reality, but claiming 30K is somehow better than 40K despite being several times worse takes writing from Bizarro land, not just twisted dimension
Dakka is known as being pretty negative about things for the wrong reasons. It's pretty much just how Dakka is now.
At least 30k has no non-Marines for GW to neglect
30k also has Custodes, Mechanicus, Solar Auxalii, Imperial Knights, Imperial Militia and Cults, and Daemons of the ruinstorm. Congratulations, you are still in the wrong reasons category.
I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
Crimson wrote: So have do people feel about the heavy intercessor weapon options outside the clarity of the wording? Like which option to choose.I really want to get bunch of these guys, they look absolutely rad.
And does it seem that they're a dual kit with the eradicators of a separate kit?
I like them and will get a unit probably equipped with regular heavy bolt rifles and heavy bolters as I play UM so the -1 to hit penalty won’t apply to me for two turns as I move up the board with them.
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
I think it has more to do with how the supplements are going to be shipped. If they are an extra in a week's release, then fantastic. However, if they are taking up a slot that normally would go to a tome/codex then they are taking up valuable faction space from AoS/40k. Currently it seems to be the former.
I think the more interesting part of this release is that they've now effectively filled up all the missing slots for Primaris, making Old Marines something that isn't really needed anymore unless *reasons*.
Crimson wrote: So have do people feel about the heavy intercessor weapon options outside the clarity of the wording? Like which option to choose.I really want to get bunch of these guys, they look absolutely rad.
And does it seem that they're a dual kit with the eradicators of a separate kit?
I like them and will get a unit probably equipped with regular heavy bolt rifles and heavy bolters as I play UM so the -1 to hit penalty won’t apply to me for two turns as I move up the board with them.
I was already doing Stalker Intercessors and ill probably do Stalker here again. The Heavy Bolter version being D3 with all the D2 is enough for me to consider them.
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
I think it has more to do with how the supplements are going to be shipped. If they are an extra in a week's release, then fantastic. However, if they are taking up a slot that normally would go to a tome/codex then they are taking up valuable faction space from AoS/40k. Currently it seems to be the former.
I think the more interesting part of this release is that they've now effectively filled up all the missing slots for Primaris, making Old Marines something that isn't really needed anymore unless *reasons*.
The reason usually being *these are way better than the primaris equivalent*. Gravpod anyone?
Unit1126PLL wrote: And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!
This is a complete and utter nonsense seeing there are THREE equivalents of Codex: SM in 30K, plus TWENTY supplements (18 for legions, blackshields, and errants), plus all the rules in NINE black books, as compared to one Codex with nine supplements in 40K. That despite not only 40K marines being more divergent than 30K ones, but also the books combining two armies (squatmarines and primaris) instead of being just filled with 847895786 variations of tactical squad 30K has. If 40K was anywhere like 30K, you'd have 90 supplements for SM, one per each company, describing the incredible difference in rites of war between 3rd and 4th companies of Iron Hands.
Sometimes the whinge here gets so inane I am wondering if it's posted from some alternate reality, but claiming 30K is somehow better than 40K despite being several times worse takes writing from Bizarro land, not just twisted dimension
Dakka is known as being pretty negative about things for the wrong reasons. It's pretty much just how Dakka is now.
At least 30k has no non-Marines for GW to neglect
See those guys crying in the corner? They’re the Solar Auxilia.
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
I think it has more to do with how the supplements are going to be shipped. If they are an extra in a week's release, then fantastic. However, if they are taking up a slot that normally would go to a tome/codex then they are taking up valuable faction space from AoS/40k. Currently it seems to be the former.
This is one of those situations where GW can't win. If they rush out the supplements early so they can focus on other armies after, people will complain because "they're taking slots for non-Marines!" If they push out a bunch of quick books for various armies like they did at the beginning of 8th, people will complain that the books were rushed and not as good as the later books because they didn't have enough time to properly work on them like happened with the early 8th ed books.
I am pretty happy with all of the reveals today, the only one I am iffy about is the new Deathguard character. I am not sure what it is, maybe it is a bit too angular compared to the recent DG releases? But I am not a fan.
Otherwise put me down for all of the Newcrons and a few select Primaris units for my Celestial Lions.
Crimson wrote: So have do people feel about the heavy intercessor weapon options outside the clarity of the wording? Like which option to choose.I really want to get bunch of these guys, they look absolutely rad.
I think the loser here is the Hellstorm, as the Hellstorm Heavy Bolter basically goes against what the rest of the unit is doing, given it's Heavy 4 rather than Assault 4. The Executor weapons are nice, but Heavy 1 on the basic guns might make the standard the more attractive choice, even though a 42" range is very nice.
Either way I think they look cool, so that's good.
Crimson wrote: And does it seem that they're a dual kit with the eradicators of a separate kit?
I imagine that the Eradicators (and Blade Guard) will be separate kits with price tags similar (if not more) than the Eliminators.
Crimson wrote: So have do people feel about the heavy intercessor weapon options outside the clarity of the wording? Like which option to choose.I really want to get bunch of these guys, they look absolutely rad.
I think the loser here is the Hellstorm, as the Hellstorm Heavy Bolter basically goes against what the rest of the unit is doing, given it's Heavy 4 rather than Assault 4. The Executor weapons are nice, but Heavy 1 on the basic guns might make the standard the more attractive choice, even though a 42" range is very nice.
Either way I think they look cool, so that's good.
I think the standard is the best loadout so far, but if bringing Hellstorm, I think it's probably better to leave the Heavy at home precisely because it doesn't want to do what the rest of the unit is doing.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: I am pretty happy with all of the reveals today, the only one I am iffy about is the new Deathguard character. I am not sure what it is, maybe it is a bit too angular compared to the recent DG releases? But I am not a fan.
.
I rather like him, except the pink belly-pouch, and even with the normal hand-to-power fist size disparity, that right hand looks really small. Its somewhat difficult to tell from that angle, but the right leg, the rebreather and the spikes(?) above the helmet give the model a unified sense of movement and posture. I think it will look better from a side angle.
Interesting to note, however, we now know that Chaos isn't get the base codex + supplements treatment. The god chapters (at least the established god chapters) are keeping their own entirely separate books.
----
Heavy Intercessors..
hellstorm is going to depend entirely on point cost. They don't want the heavy version slowing them down, but without it, I'm not sure they do enough over standard intercessors with autorifles. On the other hand, they're the version most likely to be operating forward, where the extra toughness and wounds really matters.
Heavies and executors seem great as backline 5-man support units that can also sit on objectives. That they also have combat squads makes this pretty ideal.
3W per model heavy support-lite Troop unit seems pretty crazy though.
They do look good though. Really like the gravis models.
Damn why didn0t i start with necrons instead of my R&H...
The marine stuff:
Shovel ware for the shovel ware god.
As for the FW stuff...
Yay for DKoK shame tho their adversary bit the dust aswell... Also one book compendium, how likely are the chances that this book is just index FW with no whistles attached at all making virtually everything in there a massive selfgimp or not working?
Cronch wrote: ugh. The joke about "making more primaris" is literally the same they made 2 years ago about opening new Stormcast chambers. Except then it was kinda charming and followed by zero new SCE releases since. Here we actually know we'll just get more marines crammed down everyone's throats.
The heavy armor marines look neat, if again entirely redundant.
The flying brick thingy is the worst vehicle model GW ever produced, period. That includes the deo stick tank from Rogue Trader.
Yes! Because my subjective opinion is FACT! Nobody plays marines because they love marines. It’s because FW force them to, they’d all rather be playing my favourite army but GW dies release any models for it because they are idiots who hate money!
Am I doing Dakka right now?
almost, there wasnt enuff whine in your post, ratchet it up another 200% and you might get close.
Personally, the heavy intercessors are stupid and will not be getting any. speeders are ok but not at the $€£¥ they're gonna charge for them.
I'm glad Assault Intercessor sgts can take THUNDER HAMMERS AND HAND FLAMERS, I guess the donkey-caves on here that called me a cheater for building some can SUCK IT!
Did eradicators need a MM? umm no. will I buy more, no
Necron models are a home run and if I cared about them I'd build an army of them, but alas they're not Chaos androids built by chaos Squats soo.....they do nothing for me.
Shame that they didn't show how the models for the different heavy bolt rifle variants look like. I hope they look more distinct than the variants of the regular bolt rifle.
