As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Anyone can fall.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Why is it ok for Grey Knights to be immune and not others. After all hundreds of the thousands of Astartes have fallen across the millenia.

I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

I imagine a lot of this is simply a case of factions doing no wrong in their own Codexes, and these factions in particular not getting an awful lot of fluff elsewhere. If you look at your average Marine Codex, they always get the big spiel about how "their faith is their armour" and they "know no fear" etc etc, but we all know there are exceptions to those "facts".

I could also see an argument for Custodes and Grey Knights being few enough in number that if any of them DID fall, it wouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world for their comrades to take them out and hush it up before it became widely known. The Dark Angels managed the latter half, after all.
Sisters... hmm... there's probably just too many of them about for that to be practical, so I reckon we're well overdue some crises of faith among them. We know they're at least slightly fallible, otherwise Repentia wouldn't exist.

 Super Ready wrote:
The Dark Angels managed the latter half, after all.

To be fair to the First Legion, they had the benefit of the rest of the Imperium being in utter chaos to cover it up during and they're constantly working to try and keep it secret from other Imperial factions(but don't seem to care that the 4th Sphere Tau know).

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

You could argue that they have Faith to protect them - unlike the Marines (for the most part)

Or they already have their souls comitted to a power of the warp - the Emperor

Sort of the same thing.

Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

Daemonifuge, which apparently is canon, explicitedly featured Chaos-corrupted Sororitas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
The Dark Angels managed the latter half, after all.

To be fair to the First Legion, they had the benefit of the rest of the Imperium being in utter chaos to cover it up during and they're constantly working to try and keep it secret from other Imperial factions(but don't seem to care that the 4th Sphere Tau know).

I've always found it a bit odd that the Dark Angels that abandoned ship 10,000 years ago are this DARK, ZEALOUSLY GUARDED SECRET, but that things in the Inner Circle are apparently far more casual in regards to the Dark Angels that have joined Chaos in the time since then and now.

Do post-HH renegade Dark Angels technically count as Fallen?

There is at least 1 sister of battle that was traitorous, I recall being in a inquisitor related novel. As for custodes: they may not have fallen to chaos, but they have fallen to aliens, there was a instance where the original custody fell to a space vampire, it mimic its shape to the custode, I recall that in a Salamanders novel, possibly HH.

For the Sororitas' infallibility, I think it's largely propaganda. It's probably rare that a sister falls to chaos since their zeal makes them paranoid about anyone straying even a little bit away from dogma, but it has to happen sometimes. When it does happen, the Ecclesiarchy certainly makes sure no one hears about it and tries to deal with it quietly.

The fact there are repentia means SoB are not infallible and do still have cases of disobedience and fleeing from battle. Similarly, the Death Korps of Krieg have this reputation for being almost like biological robots but in the Imperial Armour Siege of Vraks books, there is an instance of them breaking, retreating, and shooting their Commissars. A lot of the stuff written about factions is often propaganda, the idealized image they want to have. Even if largely true, there are still the exceptions to the rule. These exceptions are probably covered up and scrubbed from records if the blemish is too great.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

I've got to call this out as incorrect - the Grey Knights have been all-psyker and completely incorruptible for as long as I've been playing, which would be 2nd ed. Specifically, they're covered in the 'Codex Imperialis' that came with the 2nd ed box and the Dark Millennium expansion.
Even that far back, their fluff uses words along the lines of "not a single member has ever turned traitor".

The biggest changes Matt Ward brought about was their use of power armour, and the sudden proliferation and variety of units. Prior to that, they were only available in squads of Terminators that you'd take as a special ally - kind of like you would Legion of the Damned.
I stand corrected, power armour came earlier than Ward.

 Tiennos wrote:
For the Sororitas' infallibility, I think it's largely propaganda. It's probably rare that a sister falls to chaos since their zeal makes them paranoid about anyone straying even a little bit away from dogma, but it has to happen sometimes. When it does happen, the Ecclesiarchy certainly makes sure no one hears about it and tries to deal with it quietly.

this was confirmed in.. I wanna say the SOB omnibus where it basicly says that when a sister falls to chaos they cover it up

Well on one hand the Grey Knights and Custodes ARE Mary Sue silver flavor and gold flavor.

On the other, it could be Imperial propaganda. And if you wanted you could always make a Lord or Sorcerer of Chaos out of those models for example.

As a matter of point my Warpsmith is a Sisters of Battle model

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
As a matter of point my Warpsmith is a Sisters of Battle model

Oh, come ON!! You can't just tease us like that and then not show it off!
I've gotta admit the Grey Knights have been a goldmine for psykery/mystical bits for all kinds of other factions' kitbashes over the years. I've got a Blood Angels Librarian that uses just a normal Strike squad torso and the curved hood that comes with it - and it really looks the part.

No SoB falling to Chaos at all? Sounds like Imperial Propaganda to me...

Jokes aside, SoB are human, and fanatical. That is a great combination for falling to chaos, rather on purpose or by accident. I can imagine that with them being the poster children of the Ecclesiarchy, any incidents are kept heavily under wraps. The Imperium has committed genocide for less...

 Super Ready wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

I've got to call this out as incorrect - the Grey Knights have been all-psyker and completely incorruptible for as long as I've been playing, which would be 2nd ed. Specifically, they're covered in the 'Codex Imperialis' that came with the 2nd ed box.
Even that far back, their fluff uses words along the lines of "not a single member has ever turned traitor".

The biggest changes Matt Ward brought about was their use of power armour, and the sudden proliferation and variety of units. Prior to that, they were only available in squads of Terminators that you'd take as a special ally - kind of like you would Legion of the Damned.

Power armoured GKs first appeared in the 3rd ed Daemonhunter codex. They preceded the Mat Ward book by a fair few years.

Power armoured Grey Knights were in Rogue Trader.

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

SoB are fanatically faithful. Space Marines are not. Half of the Space marines fell to chaos...that says to me they are slightly more susceptible to corruption that certain other factions. (though that was mostly the Primarch's fault). Even most top imperial guard regiments can boast a good record against corruption its not like the forces of the imperium fall to chaos that easy. I think the justification is pretty simple you see in most space marine chapters they lose their humanity so that is likely part of why they are most susceptible to chaos. There are exceptions of course like the Salamanders and Space Wolves...but i would imagine them to be more resistant to chaos than most.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous

Grey Knights have been known to commit the occasional blood sacrifice to Khorne...
But in all seriousness their armour and training probably includes a significant self-destruct if corrupted given they are warded in all kinds of anti-daemonic protections that would probably immolate them from the inside if they were to become possessed.

Possessed sisters are numerous in lore. However 'chaos sisters' wouldn't be much of a faction - without their faith they are just elite traitor guard, and their faith is significant protection given that it can literally burn daemons through sufficiently enthusiatic chanting.

The custodes up until recently have been as vague as the Emperor himself and as equally confined to the imperial palace, so there is no lore one way or another.

Ah ok, so I was incorrect on when power-armoured Grey Knights came in. Edited my original post to suit.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Power armoured Grey Knights were in Rogue Trader.

Say what? Really?! ...don't suppose they had models, by any chance? I know the Termie models date back to Rogue Trader, those sculpts were incredible.
Looked a little into it and a LOT changed for the Knights between 1st and 2nd ed.

"The Grey Knights are fully as effective as any other Marine Chapter. They are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevent any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever. "
...
"Often entire companies are granted an audience with the Emperor, a privilege normally reserved for the Adeptus Custodes."

I can certainly recall a couple of stories where individual sisters of battle have gotten corrupted by chaos. I havn’t read deamonifuge. They are not immune to its influence. Where great knights and custodies are concerned I’m thinking it’s a case of size. If I where to say “no one has ever been corrupted by chaos from the 647th Cadian regiment” that’s not very impressive. The sisters outnumber the custodes and the GK by something like 10000000000:1 and they have been around for something like 6k years (can’t be bothered to double check the goge vandire rebellion). Of course they’ve fallen to chaos on many occasions. I assume the GK and custodes that get tempted and fall would be murdered on the spot by their brothers.

I think it's more of an opportunity thing. Even in the GrimDark WH40K universe the chances of a SuperNun getting exposed to Chaos is small. Even a BattleNun spends most of the time shooting it with bolters or cooking it with fire.

When your daily devotions are to the Emperor, you're probably fairly well protected.

The GK are specifically trained to fight daemons. This'll include psychic resistance and conditioning. Throw in the elevated religious devotions they go through there are plenty of ways even non psychers can be mentally reinforced to withstand the effects of Chaos.

The Gaunt's book Armour of Contempt shows even mortals can resist the taint if they are strong enough.

Hand selected troops from hand selected armies with hand selection processes will mean that the GK are pretty damn resistant to Chaos.

The Order of the Piercing Thorn was purged, at the request of their own Canoness....for reasons.

The Adepta Sororitas being immune to corruption is pure propaganda, the fact that there aren't many instances has more to do with the dearth of stories about them relative to Astartes.

As for the overall thread question, if there are any factions that are truely immune to corruption, then there are too many.

 Super Ready wrote:
Say what? Really?! ...don't suppose they had models, by any chance?

The original GK list used the old mk6 marine models with bolters, flamers, shuriken catapults, etc.
Slaves to darkness 1988. GK terminators (and nemesis force weapons) came out mid 1989 after marine terminators earlier in the same year.

As far as I'm concerned, the only "immune" faction are the Grey Knights. Custodes probably are/could be.

I think Space Marines aren't as corruptible as everyone makes out. Like, I was under the impression that things like the Abyssal Crusade and Badab War are cataclysmic events, definitely not the norm. I think we, as out of character viewers, think Marines fall way more often than they realistically do, simply because the cases where things like that do happen are interesting.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the only "immune" faction are the Grey Knights.

GK aren't immune, just well protected.

Examples include needing additional anointments to protect themselves against the bloodtide, and only purifiers being permitted to guard the black blade due to the strength required to resist corruption - Crowe being noted as the only GK to be able to carry it for any period of time.

Don't forget for as many warriors as the Imperium has in these elite forces; they've vast multitudes more of regular Guardsmen and insane multitudes more of regular humans who aren't part of the armed forces.


It makes sense that the best at resisting Chaos would end up in armed forces sent specifically do deal with chaos (or which would have a high chance of ending up dealing with Chaos). Heck even in the Inquisition books (Ravenor and Eisenhorn) corruption to Chaos can happen to the Inquisition.


So even if the Imperium has an elite army of warriors who are immune, there's still vast numbers who can fall to Chaos.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Grey Knights were never immune before the Matt War Abomination Lore - in fact originally only a very few in the Chapter were psychic to protect them from possible possession.

I've got to call this out as incorrect - the Grey Knights have been all-psyker and completely incorruptible for as long as I've been playing, which would be 2nd ed. Specifically, they're covered in the 'Codex Imperialis' that came with the 2nd ed box and the Dark Millennium expansion.
Even that far back, their fluff uses words along the lines of "not a single member has ever turned traitor".

The biggest changes Matt Ward brought about was their use of power armour, and the sudden proliferation and variety of units. Prior to that, they were only available in squads of Terminators that you'd take as a special ally - kind of like you would Legion of the Damned.
I stand corrected, power armour came earlier than Ward.

I have Slaves to Darkness open next to me right now, though reading back up I see you found this quote anyway.

They are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevetn any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever.

Page 247.

The Ordo Malleus army list at the back of the book has Tac Squads, Assault Squads and Dev Squads, showing marines in regular power armour. As such, they never had their own dedicated models during Rogue Trader. Even Grey Knight Terminators are not in Slaves to Darkness.

Appreciate the knowledge bomb, thanks.

What's in Slaves to Darkness is so drastically different as to everything that's followed since, that it's fair to say that the "real" Grey Knights hadn't appeared yet.
Bear in mind 1st ed also has things like Marines wielding Eldar shuriken weapons, Leman Russ still kicking around and leading 40k Space Wolves, and of course Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau...

I don't really consider anything in Rogue Trader's lore to be "official" canon any more, unless it's been backed up since, or it doesn't conflict with current lore (like the very existence of actual Rogue Traders, for example).

 Big Mac wrote:
As for custodes: they may not have fallen to chaos, but they have fallen to aliens, there was a instance where the original custody fell to a space vampire, it mimic its shape to the custode, I recall that in a Salamanders novel, possibly HH.

It was a horribly written HH short story by Nick Kyme, and these were only speculation from SM that the alien overcame the Custodian because he had the tatoos with names like they have (although at that time, which is still valid-unless GW changed it, Custodes had their names written on the inside of their armor not their bodies.).

 Super Ready wrote:
Appreciate the knowledge bomb, thanks.

What's in Slaves to Darkness is so drastically different as to everything that's followed since, that it's fair to say that the "real" Grey Knights hadn't appeared yet.
Bear in mind 1st ed also has things like Marines wielding Eldar shuriken weapons, Leman Russ still kicking around and leading 40k Space Wolves, and of course Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau...

I don't really consider anything in Rogue Trader's lore to be "official" canon any more, unless it's been backed up since, or it doesn't conflict with current lore (like the very existence of actual Rogue Traders, for example).

Slaves to Darkness canonicity is very difficult, especially as GW staff have said more that everything is canon and nothing is canon.

I choose to prioritise RT-era canon where possible, but I wouldn't dream of imposing it on someone else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
As for custodes: they may not have fallen to chaos, but they have fallen to aliens, there was a instance where the original custody fell to a space vampire, it mimic its shape to the custode, I recall that in a Salamanders novel, possibly HH.

It was a horribly written HH short story by Nick Kyme, and these were only speculation from SM that the alien overcame the Custodian because he had the tatoos with names like they have (although at that time, which is still valid-unless GW changed it, Custodes had their names written on the inside of their armor not their bodies.).

Sounds like another reason to ignore Nick Kyme stories

 Super Ready wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
As a matter of point my Warpsmith is a Sisters of Battle model

Oh, come ON!! You can't just tease us like that and then not show it off!
I've gotta admit the Grey Knights have been a goldmine for psykery/mystical bits for all kinds of other factions' kitbashes over the years. I've got a Blood Angels Librarian that uses just a normal Strike squad torso and the curved hood that comes with it - and it really looks the part.

Ask and ye shall receive

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.

When it describes "defectors" in the unit entry, what is it referring to?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.

When it describes "defectors" in the unit entry, what is it referring to?

Sisters "who betrayed their fellow Sisters".

Theoretically, they don't have to defect to Chaos, since it doesn't use the exact language "Chaos Battle Sister", but I think it's safe to assume that since there's not really anyone else to defect to except the Tau, most of them turned to Chaos.

Even before now there was a canonical named one who defected to Slaanesh in a book IIRC.

 Super Ready wrote:
Appreciate the knowledge bomb, thanks.

What's in Slaves to Darkness is so drastically different as to everything that's followed since, that it's fair to say that the "real" Grey Knights hadn't appeared yet.
Bear in mind 1st ed also has things like Marines wielding Eldar shuriken weapons, Leman Russ still kicking around and leading 40k Space Wolves, and of course Inquisitor Sherlock Obi-Wan Clouseau...

I don't really consider anything in Rogue Trader's lore to be "official" canon any more, unless it's been backed up since, or it doesn't conflict with current lore (like the very existence of actual Rogue Traders, for example).

Many of the more recent models, lore and inspiration for "new" GW stuff is from the RT/Slaves to Darkness era. Some of it is copy pasted in current lore and / or referenced.

Some as you note - is not - such as half breed Eldar Ultramarine....now that would have been a fun person for the awakened Primarch to meet

IIRC Grey Knight Terminators came slightly later and were about 1200pts for a squad of five as they were all level four.

There is also a limbless grey Knight being used as a psychic battery at the end of one of the Wordbearer novels.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.

I didn't know about that, I thought that the only acknowledged ones were Sabathiel and the brainwashed ones from the Cain books. I personally would love to see a bunch of Khornate ones, like an evil Order of the Bloody Rose.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Uh, there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters.

There is a new unit in the Sisters of Battle Codex, the Anchorite, which is what happens when a Battle Sister who defected from the Imperium is recaptured by their order. Ergo, in order for a defector to be recaptured and tortured, there must be defectors, ergo there are canonical Chaos Battle Sisters somewhere out there for you to model and use [presumably as CSM] in your Chaos army.

I didn't know about that, I thought that the only acknowledged ones were Sabathiel and the brainwashed ones from the Cain books. I personally would love to see a bunch of Khornate ones, like an evil Order of the Bloody Rose.

Khornate SoB would be pretty awesome. I've been tempted to do that with the new BSS, since I have lots of old battle sisters but I also like and want to buy the new ones, but then I'd be starting a 6th army and that's a lot of armies.

I think part of the reason as to why there are no corrupted Custodes is that most were exposed to it to a very limited extent, if at all, for all this time. It's kinda hard to fall prey to chaos if you've barely interacted with it. As for grey knights, I would think that there would be corrupted individuals since they are exposed to chaos the most out of any imperial faction.

Having one of the high lords of terra go to chaos would be an interesting turn. The jerks are vindictive enough to be manipulated. The Minstorum going to Tzeentch would be a no brainer.

It's worth pointing out that unlike all other factions the Custodes are near constantly in the vicinity of the Emperor, even.if.not.directly by his side- that kind of exposure probably helps to.cement the Custodians loyalties to the Emperor.

Only Custodes should be inherently unable to fall to Chaos. The Grey Knights technically can but they are trained specifically to fight Chaos, while the Sisters are fanatically religious, which can go both ways.

Custodians are well educated. They know Chaos and how it corrupts and they know Chaos would ruin humanity. Most importantly though is that Chaos is/was an enemy of the Emperor. Chaos basically slayed the Emperor and tore his Imperium in half, thus humiliating the Custodes for failing in the most important task anyone could ever do but nobody else could ever be entrusted to.

Custodes are not religious zealots who fought for their idea of the "Emperors Will", they fought directly for the Emperor himself, and except for Malcador and possibly Horus, were the only ones that He personally cared about and confided in. He had more love and respect for them than he did for the Primarchs (except possibly for Horus)

So basically, between their unshakable loyalty, humility and hatred for Chaos, the Custodes can not be corrupted. They may be tricked into fighting other Imperials, but they can not actually be swayed into turning against the Emperor. Even if Tzeentch pulled something off that somehow caused the Adeptus Custodes to be tricked into betrayal and be officially listed as excommunicate traitoris, you wont find them saying "Death to the False Emperor" because in their hearts and minds they remain loyal to Him and only Him but not to his what his Imperium has become.

TLDR; GW would butcher the lore of the Custodes and what they represent if any of them went traitor. Grey Knights can, but are not immune to Chaos' influences. Sisters of Battle are fanatically religious. That can either be their shield or something that backfires completely. Lorgar and his Word Bearers were (and still are) extremely religious and their faith in deities is what ruined the Imperium forever


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Conservative Heretic wrote:
I think part of the reason as to why there are no corrupted Custodes is that most were exposed to it to a very limited extent, if at all, for all this time. It's kinda hard to fall prey to chaos if you've barely interacted with it. As for grey knights, I would think that there would be corrupted individuals since they are exposed to chaos the most out of any imperial faction.

Custodes were heavily exposed to Chaos. They had to fight a constant war against endless Daemons under the Imperial Palace just before the Horus Heresy even started, up until nearly the end of the Heresy. That's around 7 straight years of complete exposure of Chaos and bloodshed without rest.

Even in the current timeline the Custodes are very well versed in tons of topics including Chaos and the Warp

Why should all Imperial factions be liable to Chaos corruption? The true question is: why so few aliens are corrupted by Chaos.

Fundamentally, fanatical faith of any sort should be a gateway drug for falling to Chaos (likely to Khorne or Nurgle). Custodes actually seem to have the right of it; they're incredibly loyal but also bery rational, educated, and introspective. I think Grey Knights are rigged to blow if they fall to Chaos; a group of them venerating Malal/Malus seems like a fun idea, though.

Really, more SoB's should be falling to Chaos, *and* their fanaticism should not have protected them from the Pariah engine stuff the Necrons had. The problem is, they're tied up in irl cultural notions of female purity and so they get special moral license.

Hecaton wrote:
Fundamentally, fanatical faith of any sort should be a gateway drug for falling to Chaos (likely to Khorne or Nurgle). Custodes actually aerm to have the right of it; they're incredibly loyal but also bery rational, educated, and introspective. I think Grey Knights are rigged to blow if they fall to Chaos; a group of them venerating Malal/Malus seems like a fun idea, though.

Really, more SoB's should be falling to Chaos, *and* their fanaticism should not have protected them from the Pariah engine stuff the Necrons had. The problem is, they're tied up in irl cultural notions of female purity and so they get special moral license.

They are falling to chaos to an unknown degree, but they definitely are. However:
A: their organization goes through great effort to cover it up and track them down because image is important
B: Imperial defectors really don't feature in the forefront of the Chaos lineup, which is pretty much just focused on the 10k year grudge match with most of the chaos threat, including modern Space Marine, Sister, and mostly IG defectors getting essentially no screen time save for like one page for Huron Blackheart. It's not like Guardsmen are incorruptible because there currently isn't a Chaos Guard codex, we know that there are both individual and mass defections from the Guard. We also know that there are individual and mass turnings-to-Chaos from the Sisters of Battle, since there's a couple of stories featuring individuals, there's the Order of the Piercing Thorn, which was ordered destroyed for "unknown reasons", and there's of course enough defectors that the Orders can recapture a nonzero number of them and have special machines and procedures in place for handling the situation. There's less of them than there are Space Marines or Guardsmen, [which makes sense, because religious fanatics tend to be pretty hard to convert], but there are.


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.

Against demons, psychic powers, and other warp-associated phenomena, sure, since you're countering their warp mojo with some of your own. Faith is emotion and thus tied inextricably to the Immaterium. Blocking people's connection to the Warp should disrupt their ability to be faithful on a fundamental level, and probably psychologically traumatizing the faithful in a more fundamental way than the faithless.

It also has the side effect of implying the Imperial Faith is special and true and gets to break the rules associated with other warp entities' and their influence (i.e. gods and religion).

Hecaton wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.

Against demons, psychic powers, and other warp-associated phenomena, sure, since you're countering their warp mojo with some of your own. Faith is emotion and thus tied inextricably to the Immaterium. Blocking people's connection to the Warp should disrupt their ability to be faithful on a fundamental level, and probably psychologically traumatizing the faithful in a more fundamental way than the faithless.

It also has the side effect of implying the Imperial Faith is special and true and gets to break the rules associated with other warp entities' and their influence (i.e. gods and religion).

Make SOB immune to the pariah engine made no sense as when the pylons were activated on Cadia and the warp was temporarily banished, St. Celestine was stripped of her powers.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As for the pariah engine, in the universe of 40k, faith literally is protection, for Space Marines, for Grey Knights, for Inquisitors, for Sisters, etc. so I'm not surprised.

Against demons, psychic powers, and other warp-associated phenomena, sure, since you're countering their warp mojo with some of your own. Faith is emotion and thus tied inextricably to the Immaterium. Blocking people's connection to the Warp should disrupt their ability to be faithful on a fundamental level, and probably psychologically traumatizing the faithful in a more fundamental way than the faithless.

It also has the side effect of implying the Imperial Faith is special and true and gets to break the rules associated with other warp entities' and their influence (i.e. gods and religion).

Make SOB immune to the pariah engine made no sense as when the pylons were activated on Cadia and the warp was temporarily banished, St. Celestine was stripped of her powers.

Yup. They should have had the Sisters of Silence fill that role.

Hecaton wrote:
Fundamentally, fanatical faith of any sort should be a gateway drug for falling to Chaos (likely to Khorne or Nurgle)

It goes both ways. The immaterium is born of belief and if you truly have faith in your ability to fight it then you can. It is not unique to the sisters - other individuals have driven back or burnt daemonic entities though sheer faith in the Emperor.

As for the pariah engine, i've not read it but was it actually stated by be a warp dead zone or just a poorly thought out name for something else?

Grey knights make sense to be untouchable by the ruinous powers. First of all, they have the most strict recruitment system. Amongst all the SM chapters are the ones that by far has the lowest success ratio.

This process involves strict inspection by senior GK of the recruit mind and soul to detect if he can be tainted, a process that does not exist or not at least to this extends.

And this is just the beginning because even the most senior GK are constantly monitored by their brothers and they protect each other against chaos corruption.

And infiltrated demon or heretic will be immediately detected by their fellow brothers. If some brother begins to deviate and put himself to a weak position, he will be pulled out and corrected by his brothers, because they constantly read they mind and souls each other and knows how the ruinous powers corrupt and acts more even that the puppets of the dark gods and their primachs themselves.

For adeptus custodes on one side, they stay most of the time in holy terra at the side of the god emperor corpse and surrounded by inquisition and GK and on the other hand they are so few that they can easily control each other.

Sister of battle however is more dubious to me. There are already famous examples of sisters of the battle that felt into corruption. Also is common for high members of the ecclesiastic to be targeted and fall to the ruinous powers. Perhaps they get corrupted with a far lower ratio than what a regular human would but their numbers are far greater than GK and custodes and probably they self-control mechanism far inferior so by statistics imao is highly likely that at least some others are corrupted. The question is if they are detected and when they are detected if they hide it or not. At the end of the day the inquisition and GK main work is to detect and suppress this ... events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In case of a corrupted custode it could be an interesting story. Because the custode has a special authority that emanates from the god-emperor but also the inquisition does. If a custode gots corrupted and is find it out by an inquisitor what would happen if both put their authority on the stake? Who's authority would win under the rules of the imperium?

Whoever had the biggest gun.

Grey knights make sense to be untouchable by the ruinous powers. First of all, they have the most strict recruitment system. Amongst all the SM chapters are the ones that by far has the lowest success ratio.

I am not sure there should be any immunity to Chaos corruption - except maybe Sisters of Silence.

The GKs own (pretty awful) more recent lore says that not only do they have to take added precautions to avoid corruption or sacrifice others - if they are "immune" they wouldnt have to. Grey Knights should be highly resistant - btu are not immune according to their own codex.

Sisters of Battle I feel have their souls already claimed by their god - the Emperor as a Warp entity - so should be hard in the same way as it would be for Slaansh to steal the soul of a follower of Khorne etc.

Custodes would, IMO be the same as Grey Knights.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Sisters of Battle I feel have their souls already claimed by their god - the Emperor as a Warp entity - so should be hard in the same way as it would be for Slaansh to steal the soul of a follower of Khorne etc.

I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this, and the instances where there have been corrupted SoB would contradict the idea.

Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.

As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.

 harlokin wrote:
I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this

Well there is definitely something going on with them and other saint-types in the imperium. Non-psychic humans don't generally reincarnate themselves or pray away having limbs disintegrated by gauss weapons.

 harlokin wrote:
Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.

Depends on the rules it has to play by - but how would it be any different from the eldar gods in that sense? The dynamic between the laughing god and slaanesh for instance, and even slaanesh herself having a claim but not an unbreakable one upon the souls of the eldar.

A.T. wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this

Well there is definitely something going on with them and other saint-types in the imperium. Non-psychic humans don't generally reincarnate themselves or pray away having limbs disintegrated by gauss weapons.

 harlokin wrote:
Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.

Depends on the rules it has to play by - but how would it be any different from the eldar gods in that sense? The dynamic between the laughing god and slaanesh for instance, and even slaanesh herself having a claim but not an unbreakable one upon the souls of the eldar.

I agree that their faith powers/abilities are remarkable, I just don't think it renders them immune to Chaos corruption; see Miriael Sabathiel, Oleande The Iconoclast, and The Order Of The Piercing Thorn.

The Cregorach thing is really interesting, and seems very thematic with a trickster god. It doesn't necessarily mean that it can be relicated by other 'gods' though.

The extent to which souls/spirits are can be 'claimed' also seems to vary; followers of Chaos can technically repent and deprive their previous patron of their soul, whereas the Aeldari 'fall' has put them in another category of ownership (totally involuntary and without agency) which only Ynnaed and Cregorach can seemingly challenge.

One thing that Custodes, GKs, and Sisters all have in common compared to most other imperial factions, is that aside from being smaller in number (although sisters aren't exactly tiny), they are all centrally organized and ran. This makes any possible corruption or defection easier to immediately blot out.

Space marine chapters, and legions before that, were inherently decentralized, and therefore corruption could spread among one legion/chapter/company with no real oversight.

Sisters and GKs are also trained to face and fight chaos, which means they both have more understanding of possible corruption, they are actively girded against it. Even Astartes are not given more than a rudimentary training on chaos, if at all.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.

I did not know Custodes are blunts - is that in the Codex or soemwhere else?

 harlokin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Sisters of Battle I feel have their souls already claimed by their god - the Emperor as a Warp entity - so should be hard in the same way as it would be for Slaansh to steal the soul of a follower of Khorne etc.

I'm not aware of anything that would confirm this, and the instances where there have been corrupted SoB would contradict the idea.

Furthermore, if such an entity both existed in the form suggested, and were able to 'claim' the souls of the devoted, it would basically be an 'I win button' for the salvation of humanity in 40K.

Not really - its just another Warp Power, the Emperor or at least some form of him definately seems to be somewhat divine and manifest entities linked with him - See Legion of the Damned, St Celestine etc.

Miriael Sabathiel I am aware of.
The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?
Oleande The Iconoclast - I was not aware of - interesting.

I don't think Sisters (or Custodes or Grey Knights), as mortals can be or are immune just resistant.

Sisters of Silence and other Priahs are interesting as they should be virtually immune.

 Mr Morden wrote:

The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?

No specific details of what transpired, which I quite like.

What we know is that The Piercing Thorn specialised in fighting Chaos, and were famous for commando style tactics. Their Canoness, Setheno The Gorgon discovered some sort of taint, and petitioned for them to be purged. She gathered a force from other Orders and personally annihilated The Piercing Thorn; every sister was slaughtered, every vehicle demolished, the Order's fortress was bombed and burnt to the ground, and the land was purified with holy salt.

I'd lean towards GK and SoS being immune, but SoB not being immune - but trigger-happy if corruption of their own is suspected, and with good PR to clean up afterwards.

Custodes are an interesting one - I imagine the Emperor being around helped shield them during the Webway fight at the start of the Heresy, and while they were mostly on Terra I'd guess the odds on them being exposed to the taint was lower.

I don't recall anything about the Custodes being blunts - that would imply a similar sort of protection to SoS, which I imagine would've come up in rules or novels at some point. I could see them having the training and discipline to avoid a fall, as well as some form of direct protection from the Emperor via their armour, though.

In the case of the Shiny Golden Boys, let's go with "no known cases" for now, until an example is out there.

Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

It's sort of a major spoiler so I'm even putting the story its in in a spoiler. That said it does take basically the focused attention of a Greater Demon to achieve. It's even respected in the source that it "shouldn't happen" but did.
So it can happen, but it is rare. Certainly during a battle chances are its not going to happen, which makes those with the Pariah gene powerful combatants, but during a prolonged exposure one could be corrupted to Chaos.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Blunts aren't immune to Chaos. They are just a lot lot harder to corrupt and convert.

Last I checked, "blunt" was the slang term applied to those with the Pariah gene (as was).

While there's nothing stopping such a person from being an evil SOB - no, not Sister of Battle - if the warp can't perceive you it's damn tricky for it to get its hooks into you.

All Tau are "blunt" - it just means little but some presence in the Warp, Tau can be corrupted.

Then there are Pariahs who have zero presence and disrupt the warp by their very presence.

Dan A makes great stories and has often written alot of the lore we use now - but he does change it to fit the story (or forgets/ignores stuff), same as other authors like ADB. Makes life interesting

 harlokin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

The Order Of The Piercing Thorn is there any sepecifics on them being chaos corrupted?

No specific details of what transpired, which I quite like.

What we know is that The Piercing Thorn specialised in fighting Chaos, and were famous for commando style tactics. Their Canoness, Setheno The Gorgon discovered some sort of taint, and petitioned for them to be purged. She gathered a force from other Orders and personally annihilated The Piercing Thorn; every sister was slaughtered, every vehicle demolished, the Order's fortress was bombed and burnt to the ground, and the land was purified with holy salt.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
As I've said before on these forums, in the fluff a GK initiate is psychically monitored for a straight 99 days/nights before being given the gene-therapy to start becoming a SM. After the transformation is complete (not sure how long that takes) they are mentally, physically & psychically trained for 50 years before being considered a full space marine brother. At this time they're given access to suits of Power Armor, Interceptor Jump Packs & a suit of Terminator Armor.

SoB, while fanatically devoted, are just humans and can be corrupted like any other human.

Custodes are stringently psychic blunts and if fluff is to be believed, supposedly damn-near immortal and completely incorruptible. I believe the proximity to the Emperor has some merit to their incorruptibility. In addition, the part about them fighting daemons for seven straight years before the HH happened inside of the Webway, throught the portal under the Imperial Palace. How constant is time in the Webway...they could have been fighting for a considerably longer period of time, relatively speaking.

ok, feel a need to interject here, the custodes do NOT date back to the heresy era. they're still continually recruiting. and yes they eventually get old and eventually retire

El Torro wrote:
I'm not so sure about Custodes but the Adepta Sororitas are pretty numerous. If a Space Marine can fall to Chaos I don't really see what justification there is to say that SoB can't.

They are a bunch of religious fanatics who fervently believe in the Imperial Creed. That's why the Adepta Sororitas rarely fall to Chaos. There's only been one who has, and I'm not even sure if she's still canon.
The Space Marines are not quite religious fanatics, because they know the Emperor is their "grandfather", not a god, and the traitor legions' loyalty were to their primarchs first and to the emperor second. Whilst they do revere him, they don't worship him like the Eccliesarchy do.
They are certainly fanatics, but they aren't religious.

Given that aphrael stern is clearly canon - she and kyganil have their own model - then so is daemonifuge and hence so is an entire order of corrupted sisters.

locarno24 wrote:
Given that aphrael stern is clearly canon - she and kyganil have their own model - then so is daemonifuge and hence so is an entire order of corrupted sisters.

I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Is there any hint where the Custodes are "blunt" comes from?

locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Different kinds of corruption between those two though.
Sabathiel chose to become a champion of chaos, whereas the other sisters appear to be variously possessed or mutated - those in the screaming cage are the reason why the daemonifuge exists.

For me the three factions in the imperium that are immune to chaos make sense.

Grey knights can resist, because of their extremely focused training and gear. Their selection process is just that strict and grueling.

Custodes are incorruptible by design. Every single one of them being a handcrafted masterpiece of gene-alchemy. They are physically incapable to betray the emperor. Drach'nyen, one of the most powerful demons stated in a Horus heresy book, that stars would die before he would be able to corrupt a custodes.

I would also disagree that both these factions are Mary sues or border on being ones (except draigo...). The Grey knights are fanatics and commit countless atrocities to keep the information about chaos secret.
The custodes are functionally immortal, peerless warriors etc etc, but they lack any initiative to help or better the imperium. Their singular focus is the emperor, Terra and the Sol system. Yet they look down on the current state of the imperium, because they know how the emperors original vision for the imperium would have looked like, which makes them massive, massive hypocrites. Most of them are also spectacularly uncharismatic.

The sisters of silence being immune makes sense due to their blank nature. They see the creatures of the warp for what they actually are, there is no beguiling them.

The sororitas have fallen to chaos as far as I can remember, even though their zealous nature surely helpes them to be more resistent to being corrupted I guess.

I think it also speaks to the grimdark nature of the imperium that those three factions that are practically immune to chaos are far to few in number to make an actual difference.
As stated in watchers of the throne the custodes can only really effectively fight demons in conjunction with the sisters of silence.
The Grey knights are of course specialized to fight chaos and are best suited for it, but they are too few in number to make a lasting difference. They are able to push back the worst demon invasions, but always at great cost. They can basically only rage against the dying of the light and thats it.
This is what makes them interesting in my opinion.

A.T. wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. But a lot of people claim she's unique, and she's not.

Different kinds of corruption between those two though.
Sabathiel chose to become a champion of chaos, whereas the other sisters appear to be variously possessed or mutated - those in the screaming cage are the reason why the daemonifuge exists.

I think the problem lies in the wording of her fluff. She's described as "the only known Battle-Sister in the history of the Imperium of Man to have willingly turned to the service of Chaos".
Who here would say that the Death Guard turned to Chaos willingly? Or the Thousand Sons? "Under duress" is more like it.

 Super Ready wrote:
Who here would say that the Death Guard turned to Chaos willingly? Or the Thousand Sons? "Under duress" is more like it.

All of them turned willingly, choosing what they believed to be the best course for themselves. Exceptions would be those like Fulgrim who were possessed, at least initially.

I'll accept the Death Guard's case is debatable, but... to me it's not much of a choice. The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.
It's a lot like how people under interrogation or torture will often confess to things they never did, or even start believing that they did them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
As of the moment, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and Grey Knights all are stated that they have no members who have fallen to Chaos, minus Miriael Sabathiel. It makes sense for the Grey Knights, but having that be the same for SOB and Custodes strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe they could have far, far fewer members fall, but giving them a free pass puts them too much into Mary Sue territory imo. For Custodes, maybe as more and more are sent to the frontlines and away from the immediate light of the Emperor, a handful could be tempted and fall. As for the SOB, given how zealous they are, if anything happened that seriously shook the faith of any of them, I could see a Lorgar situation happening. What do you all think?

Why is it ok for Grey Knights to be immune and not others. After all hundreds of the thousands of Astartes have fallen across the millenia.

Far more than that.

 Super Ready wrote:
The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.

Yeah they could have gone with martyrdom and they didn't. Not the same as mind-control or stuff.

bibotot wrote:
Why should all Imperial factions be liable to Chaos corruption? The true question is: why so few aliens are corrupted by Chaos.

There are plenty out there. Many are just not mentioned in mainline GW background. The primary ones in GW background proper are the Crone World Eldar and Chaos Orks (the latter of which tend to self-destruct quite quickly as other Orks tend to kill them for being "un-Orky"), but there are others in the RPG material like the Yu'Vath, (presumably) the Rak'Gol and (maybe) the Loxatl.

I feel this is such an untapped vein of background, like in the places you can go with it. We've seen how four limbed upright apes depict the gods, how about a race of cephalopods? What would they pile high in the name of Khorne for example? But we're going OT here...

The mere idea that any human being is *immune* to chaos is the most un-40k ever, more so than Imperium being the good guys.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

Officially licenced card game

The mere idea that any human being is *immune* to chaos is the most un-40k ever

Can't argue with that with possible exception of blanks

 Dysartes wrote:
What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

I assume the objection to it having to be Slaanesh is because hur-durrr, it's a woman and Prince of Sexytimes and all that...? If so - I've gotta say it's been handled well. Her fluff focuses more on torture, murder and hunting Eldar - hence avoiding the more obvious stuff - and she's even wearing pretty much the same as any other Sister. Bullet dodged, I say.

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

Why wouldn't it be Slaanesh? Slaanesh isn't just about sex, you know. Slaanesh is about desire and sensation in general, as well as a strong theme of indulgence of the self and pride. Its why Fulgrim fell, iirc; he wasn't horny, he was arrogant.
It is entirely possible for a Sister to want more than a simple monastic life in eternal fealty to the Emperor and to live more of her life, and from that standpoint making a pact with the Prince of Excess makes sense.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I wasn't talking about her.

I was talking about Miriael Sabathiel, Chaos Champion of Slaanesh and former Sister-Superior of Order of Our Martyred Lady.

What's the source on this atrocity, and why in the Emperor's name did it have to be Slaanesh? Sheesh.

Why wouldn't it be Slaanesh? Slaanesh isn't just about sex, you know. Slaanesh is about desire and sensation in general, as well as a strong theme of indulgence of the self and pride. Its why Fulgrim fell, iirc; he wasn't horny, he was arrogant.
It is entirely possible for a Sister to want more than a simple monastic life in eternal fealty to the Emperor and to live more of her life, and from that standpoint making a pact with the Prince of Excess makes sense.

I feel Slaanesh is the most cerebral of the Chaos gods. Khorne? Mindless killing so long as there is blood and skulls in their name. Nurgle? Entropy and rot. Nothing that isn't going to happen anyway IMHO, will probably be the victor thanks to entropy. Tzeentch? Changer of ways? Sure they are the behind-the-scenes manipulator but exactly that makes me think the adherents of Tzeentch may be being manipulated more than they realize. They seem to be the embodiment of Dunning Kruger.

Slaanesh? Sure they are considered the embodiment of ecstasy and decadence but ask anyone in the BDSM world how much thought goes into scenes (true a lot of that is to make sure everyone SURVIVES the scene, which isn't a priority to Chaos I guess but you know what I mean) or any audiophile how much a 24k gold connector is different from an 18k gold connector, that stuff doesn't come about naturally. Or a sommelier or gourmand ...

I'm sure there may have been an element of Slaanesh Durr hurr sexytime in the original decision but because she's still in battle plate while the uniform of Slaanesh is bodice and breast hanging out it's fairly indicative of the fact she isn't there for that .

Kayback wrote:
Tzeentch? Changer of ways? Sure they are the behind-the-scenes manipulator but exactly that makes me think the adherents of Tzeentch may be being manipulated more than they realize. They seem to be the embodiment of Dunning Kruger.

About half of Tzeentch followers came there because they are seekers of knowledge, how is that not cerebral?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Kayback wrote:
Tzeentch? Changer of ways? Sure they are the behind-the-scenes manipulator but exactly that makes me think the adherents of Tzeentch may be being manipulated more than they realize. They seem to be the embodiment of Dunning Kruger.

About half of Tzeentch followers came there because they are seekers of knowledge, how is that not cerebral?

Like I said in my post, Dunning Kruger. Look at "Flat Earthers" doing "High IQ research" on Youtube. Thinking you're smarter than you are isn't very cerebral. I'm willing to bet most of the people unlocking the secrets of the warp aren't anywhere near as smart or as good as they think they are. Look at the Thousand Sons as an example. They didn't even know they were in the service of Tzeentch. Look at Ahriman and his Rubric.

You can say that Slaanesh is more loving than Papa Nurgle; more bloody than Khorne and smarter than Tzeentch because Slaanesh is excess.

Slaanesh followers wouldn't be intelligent, they'd be bloated on it. Which is why the other 3 gods dislike Slaanesh more than each other; they can see that Slaanesh has potential to absorb them all.

Tzeentch followers are indeed smarter, at least the leaders. Seeking knowledge is what draws them to Tzeentch and what Tzeentch uses to tempt them in. Sure they are often not gifted everything, normally enough to cause trouble and such. Tzeentch will forever withhold information so that they keep coming back for more; each time being more and more corrupted.


AS for not knowing you are/were serving a Chaos God, that's normal for all four of them. Some followers know they follow the Gods, but hope that they can trick them or otherwise come out ahead; others are willing to trade their immortal soul for the chance at power, wealth and immortality (hey you can have my soul, but I'll never die etc..); others are blissfully unaware that they are treading the path of chaos.

Even Inquisitors have been twisted, corrupted and turned to using the forces of the Warp and Chaos.

Kayback wrote:
Look at "Flat Earthers" doing "High IQ research" on Youtube.

Just because it's dumb doesn't make it less cerebral. Doing research on the internet is cerebral. I mean, you barely move a muscle when you do it...

You can say that Slaanesh is more loving than Papa Nurgle;

Not sure Slaanesh has ever been described as loving or caring - quite the opposite.

I can see Sisters of Silence being mostly immune, unless overwhelmed by the warp, and Custodes are apparently vulnerable but at time scales that make attempting to possess them pointless for any daemon that needs to be doing something else for 10,000 years.

 Mr Morden wrote:

You can say that Slaanesh is more loving than Papa Nurgle;

Not sure Slaanesh has ever been described as loving or caring - quite the opposite.

I thought the same thing at first, but... that's not really the point the post was making.

None of them are immune to the warp, some are resistant to the influence of chaos but that is it, a Custodes can be possessed like any other being it is just much much harder for the demon (ref: master of mankind), sisters are just warp resistant humans due to their innate psychic powers and the resistance that gives them and Grey Knights are overt psykers that undergo extreme psycho indoctrination and mental training on top of their psychic training, but even they are not immune.

Nothing is immune to chaos, just varying degrees of resistance.

 Conservative Heretic wrote:
I think part of the reason as to why there are no corrupted Custodes is that most were exposed to it to a very limited extent, if at all, for all this time. It's kinda hard to fall prey to chaos if you've barely interacted with it. As for grey knights, I would think that there would be corrupted individuals since they are exposed to chaos the most out of any imperial faction.

Custodes during the heresy were actively posted in the Webway fighting the Daemons pouring from the Warp into Terra after Magnus accidentally shattered it.


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 Super Ready wrote:
I'll accept the Death Guard's case is debatable, but... to me it's not much of a choice. The alternative was an indeterminate continuation of floating in the void, and eventually, death or possession, or conversion into Plaguebearers and the like anyway.
It's a lot like how people under interrogation or torture will often confess to things they never did, or even start believing that they did them.

And yet, Custodes, Grey Knights, and perhaps even Battle Sisters would have chosen being stranded or killed.

Mortarion's situation and his choice in that regard might be understandable, but it was his choice.

A more interesting question is: did the other Death Guard actually get to make that choice, or was it made for them by Mortarion? I don't actually know.


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Kayback wrote:

Like I said in my post, Dunning Kruger. Look at "Flat Earthers" doing "High IQ research" on Youtube. Thinking you're smarter than you are isn't very cerebral. I'm willing to bet most of the people unlocking the secrets of the warp aren't anywhere near as smart or as good as they think they are. Look at the Thousand Sons as an example. They didn't even know they were in the service of Tzeentch. Look at Ahriman and his Rubric.

Not being as clever as you think you are doesn't mean you're not clever.

Ahriman will never fix the Rubric and is deluding himself by trying, but he's still considerably more intelligent than, say, Lucius the Eternal, a preening idiot whose swagger far outstrips his actual competence and has literally being saved from getting himself killed by his patron deity as an integral facet of his lore.

 Void__Dragon wrote:


Not being as clever as you think you are doesn't mean you're not clever.

Ahriman will never fix the Rubric and is deluding himself by trying, but he's still considerably more intelligent than, say, Lucius the Eternal, a preening idiot whose swagger far outstrips his actual competence and has literally being saved from getting himself killed by his patron deity as an integral facet of his lore.

Oh for sure. I wasn't trying to say the all Tzeentch are simpletons or that all Slaaneshi are highbrow thinkers. I was more trying to say worshiping Tzeentch doesn't automatically mean you're intelligent. A fool and his soul are soon parted. Nor are all Slaanesh worshipers unthinking hedonists. A lot of thought goes into being able to experience things to excess, even debauchery.

It was not quite tongue in cheek but it was bordering on it.

With the Lucius vs Ahriman example, yes Lucius is a preening idiot who over values his martial skills amd Ahriman has book knowledge but could the same fate await someone who is as proud of their mental acumen and obvious superiority? The Chaos Gods realms do appear to overlap.

None have fallen because Imperial records are doctored to state none have fallen.

Like the Custodes are always stated to win every battle in the records automatically. Even if in reality they lose.

The official line is that these organisations don't have people falling to Chaos. The reality is there are none left alive who have fallen

Sisters of the Ebon Chalice have fallen, also Bloody Rose. Read your fluff, it happens all the time.

And Custodes are mini walking Primarchs, while none have ever fallen, they still can. Clearly stated in both books they worry about that constantly.

Grey Knights are literally the only ones who are seemingly impervious. So to answer the thread, no, there aren't too many. There is only 1, and the lore writing behind them is so bad that it's a universal joke in 40k.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Sisters of the Ebon Chalice have fallen, also Bloody Rose. Read your fluff, it happens all the time.

And Custodes are mini walking Primarchs, while none have ever fallen, they still can. Clearly stated in both books they worry about that constantly.

Grey Knights are literally the only ones who are seemingly impervious. So to answer the thread, no, there aren't too many. There is only 1, and the lore writing behind them is so bad that it's a universal joke in 40k.

Again why is there this myth about GKs - their own Codex states that there is varying levels of protection and that they have to take special precautions / only one can carry a specific sword or be corrupted so they are obviously not immune. Plus being a psychic both gives the Warp another way in and any GK can in theory miscast.

At elast one GK is currently an limbless psychic battery for the Word Bearers - how long before he is a corrupted mess?

No mortal should be / is immune - with the possible exception of total Blanks.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Sisters of the Ebon Chalice have fallen, also Bloody Rose. Read your fluff, it happens all the time.

And Custodes are mini walking Primarchs, while none have ever fallen, they still can. Clearly stated in both books they worry about that constantly.

Grey Knights are literally the only ones who are seemingly impervious. So to answer the thread, no, there aren't too many. There is only 1, and the lore writing behind them is so bad that it's a universal joke in 40k.

I remember FezzikDaBullgryn stating completely false information about the Reign of Blood and how it happened, so I'm advising everyone not to take what he say for granted unless there is a direct quote.
I mean, FezzikDaBullgryn stated that Custodes murdered Sisters during the Reign of Blood when every sources contradict that, and then completely refused to acknowledge that he was wrong. So I 100% advise ignoring his "Sisters of the Ebon Chalice and Bloody Rose have fallen" unless he provides some source.

The idea the Sisters are incorruptible to some inhuman degree is a very un-40k idea. Religious fanaticism, or any extreme display of emotion, leads to Chaos in one way or another (except maybe compassion, but people in the 40k universe don't feel that smh).

Removed - Please do not engage in such commentary on Dakka

Even blanks should be able to be tricked and seduced into the service of Chaos despite the Dark Gods not being able to grant them gifts directly.