I figured it made sense to start a general thread about various Osprey Wargaming Series and other Rulebooks coming out.
Here is some basic ones that I am aware of as of this writing, but there maybe others:
1. Gamma Wolves- A game of mecha combat by Ash from Guerilla Miniature Games. I am pretty sure he had Betas up on his Patreon and even did a video of it for his site during play testing. It is up for pre-order on the site and publishes Nov 26th.
He also wrote Last Days and Last Days Seasons, as well as Last Days: Timelines and some Frostgrave scenarios.
2. A Billion Suns has been pushed back to publish in January last I heard. It is a space combat game by Mike Hutchinson; the guy who made Gaslands. Looks like you can play across a few different boards at once, and their are no defined fleet lists. Seems like it has a lot of innovations for the genre. It looks like it will be OWG26....
4. Absolute Emperor is by Boyd Bruce. It is a game of Napoleonic Wargaming. I think that sums it up BUT it is going to be part of the Osprey Wargaming Series and probably OWG27? This is slated to come out in May of 2021 and has some potential cover art on the book.
3. Wars of the Republic is an Ancients game based on the earlier Men of Bronze rules from OWG24. The focus is on the rise of Rome to the end of the Republic. That would include a pretty large time scale including the Punic Wars. This is slated for a late 2021 release according to the Bloomsbury Publishing website.
4. Castles in the Sky. Again the Bloomsbury Publishing site seems to state a 2022 release as part of the Osprey Wargaming Series. The subtitle is a game of flying battleships.
I know there have also been several announcements for new upcoming RPG books from Osprey and their RPG arm, but I am not as familiar with the details there. I guess that will leave it open for other posters to add on then!
From the Amazon blurb, it looks like customizable Captains:
In Stargrave, players take on the role of one of these independent operators. Perhaps they are a cybernetic veteran of the Last War, a psion fleeing slavers, or a mystic warrior attempting to preserve ancient wisdom. Maybe they are a bounty hunter collecting blood money, a robotics expert pushing the bounds of current technology, or a biomorph bred in the genetanks of some forgotten laboratory. Having chosen their own background, players must hire a crew for their ship, choosing a lieutenant with their own unique skill-set, and a handful of soldiers, mechanics, hackers, and other specialists. Some captains may even recruit strange alien lifeforms with abilities no humanoid could ever possess.
Oh, for Gamma Wolves, theres some GMG videos to consider...
...different to what I expected, but its even better. Definitely a game for building scratch-built models from plasticard components and running with it.
As with Stargrave, hoping there's a solo-coop feature, but not every game is designed with that in mind and best left as a multi player experience.
Also, they did do some space conversions for Gnolls and Cultists for Frostgrave a while back, but that does not mean we will get Space Gnolls in Stargrave!
Picture is from Northstar apparently..... but not for Stargrave.......
As someone who was able to get an advanced Beta copy of the Billion Suns rules, it's quite an interesting game. Much different from standard "Age of Sail- but in Space!" game mechanics with two lines of ships slugging it out. Especially because most games are played on two or more boards that ships can warp between to fight or complete contracts (do this with a ship, capture that, destroy a space station, etc)
stargrave and gamma wolves are for sure on my watch list. I have been wanting to try Frostgrave for a while but my friends are more sci-fi than fantasy people.
Judge Dredd Cursed Earth for $7. Shipping is $3.50 to USA, free with purchase of two other books. Osprey currently has a sale on their older books, although the price is the same as Amazon. Picked up Dragon Rampart because I heard good things about it, and the card-based Kobolds and Cobblestones looked interesting. Gaslands is also worth looking into.
Shadow Walker wrote: An author of the Lion/Dragon Rampant said that there will be a s-f version in 2022 called Xenos Rampant.
I had seen some playtests online of that...... I did not know if it was going to be an "actual" Osprey release. Thanks.
From the BGG:
''We are delighted to announce that we’ve signed a contract with Osprey Publishing to produce the next book in the Rampant wargaming series: Xenos Rampant.
Xenos Rampant is a set of miniature wargaming rules for fighting science fiction battles for fun, free of adherence to specific model ranges, canonical settings or ever-expanding supplements. Armies are typically composed of around 30-50 models. Most players prefer to field 28mm models, although other scales are just as playable.
Xenos Rampant is a completely standalone set of rules, but retains the simplicity, feel, and ease of play of Lion Rampant. Richard originally built Xenos Rampant as an unofficial variant based on Daniel’s Origins-nominated system, and we have worked together to develop the idea. The basic rules should be familiar to players of Lion Rampant, although the very different nature of futuristic warfare has necessitated some changes to the rules.
Xenos Rampant will be published as a hardback book by Osprey Publishing in 2022.
Follow our social media channels for further updates and news:
mr_daniels_games_emporium (Instagram)
richardcowen.wordpress.com (blog)''
I have often had fun with Dragon Rampant but find the activation system too swing-y and random, overall; likewise the random warlord traits tend to be unbalanced. I don't entirely hate that stuff but I've found, in play, that it often puts people off, and that's not what I want out of a simple fun wargame. There's less ability to control the randomness than you might get in e.g. the activation system of A Song of Blades and Heroes. You don't have to be *that* unlucky to end up with two turns in a row where you don't get to activate anything.
Our house had more fun by adding some house rules, like say 1 or 2 uses per game of a veto, where, if you failed an activation, you still get to activate that unit but then end your turn.
I will look out for Xenos Rampant but it'd be nice if it was balanced as written!
Easy E wrote: Oh, so it is not Dan directly but another author inspired by his work. Okay then.
I think it is a collaborative effort. Dan liked this guy's fan rules and now they are working together to make the Xenos Rampant. Anyway it looks like this game could be a saving for many 40k etc. armies gathering dust.
In The Men Who Would Be King- A Lion Rampant in Colonial Era, the activation system is that all units have a default order they can execute no matter what.
Regulars can fire, cavalry can move, and irregulars can go to ground.... or something to that effect. If you fail the activation test, you can only perform the default order type.
The plus side is, you always get to do "something" even if you fail. The bad news is the game then becomes IGOUGO as the activation failure does not end your turn anymore.
Granted this is from memory from several years ago, so I may have it a bit off. Either way, they tried to mitigate the failed activation roll in later versions of the rules.
Easy E wrote: I went back and looked at some of my old reviews and found the following:
1. Lion's Rampant- Failed activations turns over action
2. Dragon Rampant- Failed activations turns over action
3. The Men Who Would Be Kings- Failed activation does not turn over action, but the unit can only do 1 pre-determined action by type.
4. Pikeman's Lament- Failed Activation turns over action
5. Rebels and Patriots- Failed activation only limits the unit that failed, roll does NOT turn over action
I am interested to see what model Xeno Rampant will use.
3 and 5 sound interesting. Kinda like Oathmark where failed activation only limits you about what actions can be used but you can still activate. I hope that if Xenos Rampant sells well then we will also see an update to Dragon Rampant.
Here is the blurb on the page for Wars of the Republic
From the First Samnite War to the conquest of Gaul, from the defeat at Lake Trasimene to the victory of Alesia, Wars of the Republic features all the rules required to wargame this period with army lists that reflect the changing nature of the Roman military, as well as those of their opponents be it Gaul, Carthaginian, Spaniard or Greek. Wars of the Republic allows you to campaign with the legions or stand firm against Roman expansion and fight throughout the Ancient World.
Easy E wrote: Heard and saw some rumors about a hard backed, Lion Rampant 2nd Edition similar to Gaslands Refuelled coming out.
Dan confirmed it a while back on another forum.
'It's neither a leak or a rumour - I've just been sharing some of my photos online. LR2 is happening, but there won't be an official Osprey announcement for some time yet as it publishes in 2022. We will share more details closer to the time. But as I'm here...
This edition will be a longer, hardback book and is expanded to cover the Dark Ages as well as the medieval period. In addition, you'll find extra scenarios and expanded campaign ideas, greater details for terrain, a chapter of optional rules, extra unit upgrades, and plenty of other new stuff due to the expanded page count (I could only cram so much into the original page count).
The core rules have a few updates but it's still LR as you know it. Same goes for troop types - any retinue you raised for the blue book will still be usable. I'm not in the habit of making you buy new books or minis for the sake of it!'
A new Knight Templar based RPG is also on the site. That completely flew under my radar until it hit......
The blurb.....
You are one of the thirty Knights Templar who awoke on Friday, 13 October 1307, only to find themselves wanted criminals and branded heretics by the King of France. Abandoned by the Vatican and sent away early in the morning, you must leave Paris on a day of reckoning and try to find your way across a dark, mythic Europe to a mystical utopia where you can rebuild!
Heirs to Heresy starts as a historical-fantasy roleplaying game, but is heavily influenced by Gnosticism, European Folklore, esotericism, and the myths and legends that surround the Templars. The game will ask you to craft the secrets of the Templar treasure, the enemies, and mysteries they will face, as your Knights undertake a mystical journey to the center of themselves along the road to Avallonis.
The mechanics are a blend of narrative, storytelling rules, and classic adventure-gaming inspired roleplaying rules that work to create rich aspect-driven characters. As Templar Knights, your skill at arms is unquestionable, but it is the potential access to gnostic spells, unique powers, or intensely powerful faith sets you apart from your compatriots.
Can you tap into your potential, guarding the mysterious Templar treasure on this last quest you will take for the order and find the answer to the burning question: are the Templars Heirs to Heresy?
The author seems like a very accomplished RPG author!
I am starting to see Castles in the Sky up for Pre-sale at various online book sellers. It is slated for a June 2022 release date.
The blurb:
A wargaming ruleset for epic pre-WW1 battles in the sky.
It's the dawn of the 20th Century and the Great Powers turn to war. Since the development of the air screw, leading to the creation of flying warships, the navies of the world have comprised an ever-growing number of these aerial ironclads. So fire up the turbines, ready the aether drives, and take to the air in Castles in the Sky: A Wargame of Flying Battleships.
Featuring all the rules required to fight battles with fleets of flying behemoths. Assemble your fleet from 9 nationalities and fight through a variety of scenarios. With a full campaign system, Castles in the Sky contains everything
adventurous aeronautical admirals need to find victory in the skies.
I really like the front cover as it highlights a few key aspects of the game:
1. Altitude matters
2. Big ships in the sky!
3. Italian and Austro-Hungarian ships on the cover (and other powers in the book)
4. There are aeroplanes
The art on the inside and the photos of the miniature ships is really great too! The interior is models from Brigade and they look amazing! The artwork is like the cover, only it looks at various nations, the crews, some smaller craft, etc. Really great stuff!
I'm all for airship combat and "ship like" airship designs (esp for a wargame where, lets face it, its going to be battle on a 2D board anyway). But yeah I don't see any balloons, engines, sails, rotors, jets or anything on those. They really are just floating ships
I presume a combination of a lack of imagination, knowledge and effort by the artist.
Or he is following the genre conventions for Aeronef games?
Strict following of genre conventions, without trying to change anything, without thinking about how dumb they look, or perhaps without knowing why they look dumb, fits "lack of imagination, effort and knowledge" pretty cleanly i'd say.
Well small guns don't have as much excuse, if your familer with how larger naval guns work and are traditional mounted it would a considerably more difficult feat of engineering to mount them on the bottom. Considering the conventions of most aeronef style settings the main battery being top and side mount like on naval ships makes a certain amount of sense.
Maybe I'm just weird because my formative aeronef setting was Last Exile where everyone was sensible enough to put guns on every surface that could conceivably face towards an enemy. Some even had obvious propulsion and control surfaces. And that's a world where feudal lord honour battles had ships just pull up alongside and conscripts on gun decks massacre each other with muskets with no harm to the actual ships.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well let's hope the rules aren't as zero effort as the art, eh?
I wouldn't necessarily call the art zero effort, just not done by a big fan of that particular sub-sub-genre ...
As for the rules, a part of this interview seems to suggest at least competence on the subject matter;
"For example, I will be publishing a game via Osprey in 2022 called Castles in the Sky. You and some of the Google Group folks are intimately familiar with this one. This game was inspired by a simple blog post from you on Delta Vector about how you did not like existing Aeronef games on the market, why you did not like them, and what are some ways you would approach them differently.
In college, I had taken a few Naval History courses through the Navy ROTC, even though I was not in the ROTC program. A long story. I had also done a lot of work on Pre-World War I history and the naval arms race in college as well. Therefore, your discussion triggered me and this pent up knowledge I had on the subject. I started thinking, well….. how would I do it? Then I wrote it down, over, and over, and over again."
I don't know any of the author's other work, like the Men of Bronze, which I mistakenly thought to be a game about 80s Miami street cops and gangsters ...
The Osprey Role-Playing game series seems to have a Cyber-Punk game coming out in August 2022 called: Crescendo of Violence. No artwork that I have seen yet.
By Alan Bahr, who if I recall is a pretty old hand at RPG design.
lord_blackfang wrote: Maybe I'm just weird because my formative aeronef setting was Last Exile where everyone was sensible enough to put guns on every surface that could conceivably face towards an enemy. Some even had obvious propulsion and control surfaces. And that's a world where feudal lord honour battles had ships just pull up alongside and conscripts on gun decks massacre each other with muskets with no harm to the actual ships.
Down the rabbithole I go, again...loved that show when it first came out.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well let's hope the rules aren't as zero effort as the art, eh? I'm always down for naval whatever.
Yeah, it would be awful if this Eric Farrington fellow was some talentless hack that just designed awful games.
Good thing he isn't a human being (with real feelings!) with a dakka account posting in this thread or anything like that.... oh, hey Easy E, didn't see you there!
Criticizing or commenting on Easy E's game design skills isn't the issue, its how you and others did so which I'm calling out. A little politeness and a softer touch goes a long way.
I myself agree that the cover art isn't the best. Its skillfull in execution and composition, sure, but it looks too much like literal seagoing vessels flying in the sky, theres nothing to indicate that they are in fact aerial vessels - no wings, no gasbags or electroid/weirdgas storage tanks, etc. the weapon arrangements don't indicate any consideration towards operating in a 3-dimensional environment, etc. If it wasn't for the biplanes one might think that it was depicting a number of warships sinking below the surface or something. Even the Aeronef miniatures show clearer indication that they are not typical ocean-going vessels. Perhaps some like/prefer the stylistic choices made in the designs of the warships on the cover art, and thats fine, but I think there was room for improvement as the design of the vessels comes across as uninspired.
Likewise, I have my hesitancies about the rules - having seen previous version and iterations of the game I don't know that Eric made a sufficient departure from Aeronef/Imperial Skies in his design choices. Hes gone through 1 or 2 revisions since I last had a look at them so its possible he came up with something a bit more novel and better streamlined than what he had before - we'll have to wait until release day to see for sure.
The point is that I'm able to communicate that without being insulting about it or making someone feel bad about the response that they are receiving to something that they have literally spent the last 5 or so years working on.
I like the cover art, it has a dreamlike quality that enhances the fantastical feeling for me. I think it is one of the better covers for the blue series.
lord_blackfang wrote: If you want to infer malice from me saying I hope the rules are better than the art, your problem.
Theres a difference between that and what you said. Calling something "zero-effort" is, in fact and by definition, a value judgement against it - and one which doesn't require much of a stretch to find malice in.
Cautiously optimistic about this one; it indeed seems like the greatest departure within the "McCullough Skirmish Parameters" yet, the recognisable but fresh third album if you will ...
I wouldn't judge the game on a single cover art style. I liked what I saw when Easy E would post earlier versions of what I am assuming are the same rules in years past down in the Fantasy Games section on here. I have thought several times of trying to get a hold of the Catalyst plastic ships from Leviathans and play it with them.
It appears to be more than just Rifles of Shadow Deep with some core mechanic changes to combat and activation.
I am surprised that it is coming out all ready this year! I expected it to take until late next year, and give Stargrave a chance to breathe a bit before we got more Joseph McCullough stuff. I mean, Stargrave still has 3 supplements in the pipeline!
Was hoping for a little more info on the system before the preorder went live ... I understand it's supposed to be different from his other games, but not much more than that. Any good writeups or close flipthroughs out there?
Lucas Blackwolf wrote: Was hoping for a little more info on the system before the preorder went live ... I understand it's supposed to be different from his other games, but not much more than that. Any good writeups or close flipthroughs out there?
You have the video flipthrough on this very page above, posted by the Grumpy Gnome
Lucas Blackwolf wrote: Was hoping for a little more info on the system before the preorder went live ... I understand it's supposed to be different from his other games, but not much more than that. Any good writeups or close flipthroughs out there?
You have the video flipthrough on this very page above, posted by the Grumpy Gnome
It is a pretty detailed look at the game, highlighting some of the differences. I am very excited about this as it has been developed parallel to my own ideas of a Gothic Horror game using a modified 7th Sea RPG background and Sharp Practice game rules. I was calling that project Tarnished Splendor and started it just before I heard he first rumors of The Silver Bayonet. Now this game may better offer what I was trying to achieve with my own project. Especially since Mrs. GG and I have gotten quite fond of Frostgrave in the past few months.
Castles in the Sky V.# has been floating around the internet for about 6 years or so as a playtest/free to play game. With a deep crawl of the net, I am sure versions of it can be found easily.
Osprey is about to publish V4++ in June of next year. All the other versions have been leading up to this one. Make sense?
Mr. Mersey is also starting to get active on Wargame Vault with a few other titles you can track down as well.....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is also the next Osprey RPG?
Clockwork Roleplaying in Da Vinci's Florence....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, not Osprey but Osprey adjacent, A Viking in the Sun a supplement for Lion Rampant. It has been out a bit but I figured I would post it here for a bit of exposure too....
It's hard to imagine how the rampant rules could do much justice to such varied sci-fi settings, or any kind of sci-fi setting that needs to represent a huge range of weapons abilities.
Would love to see a second edition of Dragon Rampant.
Xenos Rampant has me intrigued as well. Star Wars Legion has become my main game, but something that is more of a fun dice roller can be good to break things up.
infinite_array wrote: Any news on army lists? Maybe generic ship profiles? I'd like to use Brigade's South American Aeronef minis.
The main lists for this one are:
-British
-French
-German
-Russian
-Austro-Hungarian
-Italian
-Ottoman
-United States
-Japan
There are some rules for online content for Regional Powers and Minor Powers, but they tend to be taking profiles from these larger nations based on who they are aligned/purchased with. Therefore, nothing specific to South America BUT that does not mean that Brigade's cool new Uruguayans can not be used as a different faction, or with hand waving. It is scale and model agnostic after all.
That said the lists are broken up into three broad categories; Battleship class, Cruiser class, and Escort class. Therefore, it is pretty easy to put Battle Cruisers, Armored Cruisers, Protected Cruisers, Torpedo Cruisers, etc all into the "Cruiser" class. Meanwhile, in the Battleship class you get Dreadnoughts, Pre-Dreads, Heavy Cruisers, etc. Meanwhile, escorts are things like Destroyers, Cutters, Frigates, Torpedo boats, PT Boats, Gunboats, etc. These broad categories allow you to put a variety of smaller craft in there. Most lists have a few options in each class that I based (very) broadly on real life ship classes of the period, but I am not an expert.
I do not currently have rules for building your own warship designs, but there is nothing to stop you from doing so. After all, once you buy the game you can do whatever you want with it!
Well thats a bummer, was planning a very large order for Argentinian, Brazilian, Chilean, Dutch, and Uruguayan fleets to give the game a go with while also doing playtesting for my own ruleset. Wasn't expecting unique fleet lists for every faction, but figured there would be some level of design rules :(
IMO, if you're making a blue book game that isn't based around a specific real world historical period with an ample supply of existing models in a variety of scales available for it, then it should essentially be generic - I.E. have design rules out of the box or generic statlines that are widely applicable/customizable regardless of the minis you and your opponent use. A Billion Suns and Gamma Wolves are good examples of this in practice that enable players to "flavor" their armies with faction benefits and playstyles while keeping the system miniatures agnostic.
By giving us specific and restrictive fleet lists and ship designs we are basically locked into playing with Brigades miniatures, or whatever derivatives people cook up based around their design paradigms. In essence it stops being a typical blue book centered around generic flexibility and instead becomes the next iteration of a ruleset designed around one specific manufacturers miniatures range (ala Aeronef and Imperial Skies). At that point you might as well cut out the middle man and launch your own miniatures line and IP.
Having playable factions from the get go is an absolute must, Gamma Wolves do that and I like that the CitE ones are based on the historic analogues (and it looks like there are 9!). Who's stopping you from picking&choosing your favourite individual models and building your navy from it? I'd like the build-your-ship rules and pirates too, but if the navies in the book are interesting and well balanced it's something I'm perfectly happy with going to the author's blog for or finding in a possible future expansion.
Will there be any rules previews up on Osprey's blog or someplace else, leading to the publication?
Gamma Wolves factions are an additional layer of rules that you put over your self-designed units. Its not comparable to say that they are the same as factions with fixed fleet lists with ships that have specific weapons and armaments that can't be changed to suit the models you have available.
Who's stopping you from picking&choosing your favourite individual models and building your navy from it?
Well from the sounds of it, it appears that the fleet lists are based around very specific ship designs corresponding to the models released by Brigade miniatures as well as some generic real world designs. That being the case, whats stopping me is that my favorite individual models will likely not have any ship profiles that visually correspond to the rules and stats available to play the game with.
I'm having trouble understanding how these rules are truly "scale and model agnostic" when the fleetlists and ship stats are locked into specificity. If I have an "agnostic" model of an airship armed with the equivalent of twelve "battleship caliber" type guns, but none of the fleet lists contain ships statted for more than ten such weapons, then I'm kinda SOL in terms of being able to accurately represent the design relative to its peers from the sounds of things. This is particularly problematic if you're a fan of the Brigade south american fleet sculpts, because many of the designs are particularly bizarre with a variety of mixed caliber armaments that aren't really analogous to anything that might come out of the factions included in the book. In essence, its a problem of WYSIWYG - I know that gets twisted around here to be some bizarre competitive 40k player conspiracy, but some people - especially naval wargamers - enjoy having their ships rules accurately reflect the way their ships are designed and armed, etc.
Noted on the GW approach, perhaps Easy E can tell us more about how the country rules will work?
chaos0xomega wrote: . If I have an "agnostic" model of an airship armed with the equivalent of twelve "battleship caliber" type guns, but none of the fleet lists contain ships statted for more than ten such weapons, /.../
That might be requesting an unreasonable level of detail, after the author clearly described quite broadly defined ship classes and admitted not being a naval warfare expert.
chaos0xomega wrote: IMO, if you're making a blue book game that isn't based around a specific real world historical period with an ample supply of existing models in a variety of scales available for it, then it should essentially be generic - I.E. have design rules out of the box or generic statlines that are widely applicable/customizable regardless of the minis you and your opponent use. A Billion Suns and Gamma Wolves are good examples of this in practice that enable players to "flavor" their armies with faction benefits and playstyles while keeping the system miniatures agnostic.
By giving us specific and restrictive fleet lists and ship designs we are basically locked into playing with Brigades miniatures, or whatever derivatives people cook up based around their design paradigms. In essence it stops being a typical blue book centered around generic flexibility and instead becomes the next iteration of a ruleset designed around one specific manufacturers miniatures range (ala Aeronef and Imperial Skies). At that point you might as well cut out the middle man and launch your own miniatures line and IP.
The game is scale and model agnostic. You can use whatever you want. Just because there are no ship-design rules does not mean it is a restrictive ruleset. I am really confused on where this leap of logic came from?
Sure, a Queen Victoria class battleship is a Queen Victoria class battleship stat-wise but it can be represented by any model you want. You want a Dystopian Wars model? Use it. Leviathans model from Catalyst Games Lab? Sure! Irregular Wars Brotherhood of Uranus? Fine! The actual HMS Valiant from GHQ? Yes! A 3D printed model from Thingiverse? Go for it! A paper template of the actual HMS Queen Victoria? Can do! A coin marker? If you want, I guess. Makes no difference to the game.
The game doesn't even care if the ships are the same size. You want to put a GWBFG ship against a Brigade Aeronef? It will work fine mechanically. Might look weird, but the game functions fine.
In no way are the rules for any ship hard coded off what Brigade makes. If anything, I looked closely at real-world ships of the era and used broad categorizations to then give them some game stats to ship classes and types. The factions are based on the actual Great Powers around the time of WWI, and that is about it.
However, the process was not "science" it was a combination of broad guidelines and game feel. There is a level of abstraction so having 12 quick-firing cannons, and 12 4-inch guns, 58 machine guns, two turret mounted 16-inch naval guns to fore and aft, etc are abstracted into a generic set of stats by ship. It does not count individual weapons, turret, barrels etc. This is not a WYSIWYG game down to gun calibers, as the scale makes that level of detail irrelevant. Instead, having a lot of machine guns and rapid-firing guns just gives a ship improved point defense against aeroplanes, torpedoes, and mines, etc. Having 8 16" guns vs 8 12" guns gives a ship class different firepower and armor penetration capabilities.
Also, the games specifies that ship classes are "public knowledge". After all, back in the day any observer with glasses can look at a ship's profile, check their ship recognition manual, and then know exactly what each ship was capable of thanks to Jane's. This game assumes the same, ship classes are not "hidden knowledge" and are specified to be freely shared. Therefore, if a player asks for the stats of a ship, the other player is expected to share them.
I hope this clears things up. The game is not designed to have a "warship building" sub-game like Battletech of Gamma Wolves. There are still strategic choices as certain classes are better at different things, so you have to plan around their capabilities. That is the strategic choices of the game.
Anyone else noticing that Osprey has been pimping the RPGs pretty hard the last few months? That and Cryptid and Brian Bormu (sp) as board games?
Perhaps the Osprey Wargaming Series and other wargaming books are not hitting the mark in the profit department? Or they think they have hit the threshold of wargamers they are going to reach so no need to pimp them as hard?
could be they put out a call for manuscripts (since most of their stuff is effectivly done by the authors then Osprey publishes them), and so they'll all now coming to the point of being ready to go?
It might also be that Wargamers, because they are often tied to a model army, tend to stick to fewer systems and are slower to change to new ones.
Meanwhile RPG gamers are less tied down and more willing and open to changing systems because some won't even use models and many that do have less attachment to them because ultimately many of them might only see the table once and then never again. Plus their systems are almost totally model agnostic so they can chop and change things much quicker and more freely.
I mean heck on Kickstarter you can often see a new DnD 5th ed campaign book get into hundreds of thousands in raising money whilst if you were to release a wargame rules set without models you'd struggle just to get uptake.
Northstar Minis (and I think possibly Warlord?) are constantly posting stuff for Osprey wargames on the socials, albeit through model releases and bundle deals ...
I am sure many of you have noticed that the Osprey Wargaming Series has another title coming out in June. This one is called, Castles in the Sky- A Game of Flying Battleships. This book was 5 or 6 years in the making, and has been one of my most difficult games to get "right". There are a couple of things you will need to know about it right away:
-This game is 80 pages long, longer than a typical Osprey Blue Book
-All the art in this book is new and unique, never before seen in any Osprey book
-All the model shots are new from Brigade Models taken just for this book
-This book is V5.2 of the rules, and took many people's help and assistance to get this far. This one was a community project just as much as something I wrote. Big thanks to all those who helped along the way, there are too many Usernames, names, and handles to document without getting into trouble for missing one, but you know who you are! Huge thanks.
As many of you know, the first game I made from scratch was a 40K wet-navy wargame, and I see my efforts here as a return to my "roots". This is a game that sprang from a few different sources of inspiration:
-Castles of Steel and Dreadnought by Massie. Two works about the naval arms race prior to World War I between Britain and Germany. They are the sources of the name for this book.
-My studies in college about naval warfare and work on pre-WWI diplomatic history
-The Aeronef genre of games such as Aeronef, Imperial Skies, Leviathans, Sky Galleons of Mars, Dystopian Wars, and many more, and Musings on the Delta Vector blog
-A variety of wargames from oceans to space and beyond.
As I approached Castles in the Sky, I had a few key design elements that I wanted to be sure to capture in the rules. I will let you read them and decide if I was successful in my goals. My design notes did not make it to the final book for space reasons, so you will have to read them here instead. I hope you enjoy or gain some insights.
Castles in the Sky had the following design goals:
-Scale and Model agnostic
-3D battlespace
-Meaningful choices to be made
-Ships that can take a pounding, until they can't
-Battleship > Cruiser > Escort > Battleship
-Maneuver matters
-Some relationship to naval warfare of the period..... but flying
A very detailed account of the thought process behind the design goals listed above. Seems to hit most of the points I'd personally love to see in a steampunk game about flying battle ships, I'm getting quite excited for this Osprey Blue Book (quite a beast at 80 pages too)!
They recommended it! They all ready paid for the artwork anyway, so they probably wanted to use it all.
Hopefully if this one sells well enough, and they get the profit margins they want with it, they will make bigger books? Who knows, but I can not imagine that the margins are high for these books.
So, here is what I have gathered about Operation: Flashpoint.
- Based on an old video game, so that informs the mechanics of the game a lot
- Platoon plus game where one side is a NATO unit defending in WWII vs the Warsaw Pact
- Heavily campaign based, with the NATO units building and losing resources as the game goes on
- I am less sure how the game handles the Warsaw Pact forces, as it seems like a good set-up for solo-play.
- Reagan 80's level of tech, if I understand correctly.
A set of wargames rules covering heroic adventure and dastardly villains during the early 20th Century.
Enter a world of perilous adventure and explore steaming jungles, desert canyons, and arctic wastes! Brave the perils of nature and discover lost ruins, ancient treasures, and the secrets of forgotten civilizations! Race against rival adventurers and face off against diabolical villains! Take to the city streets and fight back against gangsters, spies, and sinister cults!
Pulp! is a scenario-driven skirmish wargame set during the interwar years of the early 20th Century. Players build teams of bold explorers, daring archaeologists, hardboiled detectives, and costumed avengers – or criminal masterminds and evil geniuses – and dive into a world of fortune, glory… and menace. Designed for both solo and cooperative play as well as the classic head-to-head mode, Pulp! contains all the rules needed to game globetrotting escapades in this rip-roaring era.
From FB:"Lion Rampant V.2
+++Update+++
The release date has been pushed onto the 4th of August unfortunately. Rest assured, if you've pre-ordered from us we'll still be getting your book out to you the moment it arrives with us.''
From FB: ''Lion Rampant V.2
Heads up, the first print run might be sold out before it even hits the streets (4th August). We've still got some spare, but once our retail stores start ordering they are going to go fast, pre-order now to secure your copy.''
From FB: ''We've just had a notification that Lion Rampant V.2 is on it's way to the North Star warehouse. 🥳
🤞🤞 we're hoping they arrive Monday, that would be excellent!!''
FB ''Xenos Rampant is due to be released in November.
We will have a special offer for all you customers so save those orders for North Star.
Plus, author Richard Cowen has written three special Army Lists for us, using the Stargrave/ Frostgrave plastic figures. We'll make both the Army lists and the figure deals available in the pre-order campaign.''
Anyone seen any reviews or mechanics info on Crescendo of Violence or Hard City?
Also, per the author on another forum, the Operation: Flashpoint Osprey Wargaming Series "Blue Book" will be delayed indefinitely due to the conflict in Ukraine. I guess they and Osprey felt it hit a little bit too close to home right now.
I was looking to pick-up Crescendo of Violence, and I ran across a book labeled as Dracula's America: The -RolePlaying Game
That tweaked my interest. It looked like a 5/2023 date with no cover art yet. However, those dates are notoriously fickle, so no one hang a hat on that.
I kinda low-key detest Rampant, I see they're still using the old cop out of "want a giant monster, just proxy it with a profile of 12 infantry dudes and track how many dudes taht make up the monster are dead" to pretend you can use any model. It's skirting this weird line between having all its elements predefined and claiming it's a "you can do anything" system a little bit like GW Open Play.
I am liking what I am hearing in this video. I do enjoy both Dragon and Lion Rampant. This seems to add enough to make it seem like a very different game, but with enough of the same to make it familiar.
Not entirely bought into 40K with 8th & 9th, and now holding out for 10th, so this will be a stop-gap in the meantime. Also, I'm looking forward to giving the Rampant system a spin.
I like most of what I see in this review, not sure how I feel about units like Elite Infantry getting to roll a 5+ to shoot, get a free shot after that, and if shot at get to shoot back on a 7+?!
Makes me feel melee is not going to be very worth it.
lord_blackfang wrote: I kinda low-key detest Rampant, I see they're still using the old cop out of "want a giant monster, just proxy it with a profile of 12 infantry dudes and track how many dudes taht make up the monster are dead" to pretend you can use any model. It's skirting this weird line between having all its elements predefined and claiming it's a "you can do anything" system a little bit like GW Open Play.
That's a great explanation of why I kept picking up Dragon Rampant in the store, flipping through it, and putting it back down.
Xenos Rampant aside, have we heard anything new about that Pulp game that's coming out soon? Like next month? I can't find anything more than the initial upcoming release copy on it.
NH Gunsmith wrote: I like most of what I see in this review, not sure how I feel about units like Elite Infantry getting to roll a 5+ to shoot, get a free shot after that, and if shot at get to shoot back on a 7+?!
Makes me feel melee is not going to be very worth it.
Yeah we addedd a few unit types Like Elite Missile and War Machine and used 40k figures just fine in normal Dragon Rampant. I do like it was so flexible.
I got my physical copy yesterday. It’s a very well laid out and nicely formatted book, and the rules seem (for the most part) to be well thought out and polished. It maintains the fairly streamlined rampant design and feels like it would play quite smoothly. I also love the example armies and scenarios, rating to try those out.
That said, I have to mention that I am a bit disappointed (but not surprised) with *how* closely the authors stuck to the previous rampant mechanics and conventions. Especially with regards to the unit types - several of them still feel like medieval / fantasy archetypes with scifi options bolted on, but with stuff like wild charge still woven directly into the fabric of the game. I also can’t work out why some units get certain options and others don’t, even it would make sense (mechanically and ‘in universe’) for them to do so.
But, it looks like it will do what I bought it to do - give me and my group a quick and easy way to get minis on the table and have a laugh, so I’m going to stop being a grumpy git and go back to playing with the lists.
That video rather nearly demonstrates the main quibble I have with the game (which is otherwise fun to play - we’re on game three): there’s way too much RNG for what feels like the sake of it. I like a bit of chaos thrown into a wargame but the mechanics they’ve used just don’t feel like they add to the gameplay in either a ‘managing your luck’ way or a ‘crazy stuff might happen’ kind of way.
Rather, they seem to arbitrarily limit and constrain the players’ agency and take control away. including Random activation AND random turn lengths AND random commander traits that can hobble you before you’ve put your minis on the table feels like too much.
They can all be house ruled, but it makes me wonder what testing feedback was like.
Well, those are all core components of all the previous Rampant games as well, (Lion, Dragon, Men Who Would be Kings, Pikeman, Rebels and Pats) So, I am guessing they are using those tried and true mechanics.
It does sound like they adopted the "best practice" from The Men Who Would Be Kings to make activation a bit less random than Lion Rampant was.
My disdain for cross genre reskins started with Future War Commander, which was more or less Warmaster with lasers tacked on, and I always thought a medieval command structure made no sense in it. Same for Warlords of Erehwon, where it's blatantly obvious that you're trying to resolve an elf cavalry charge into a goblin pike wall in a system built for skirmishing riflemen mostly suppressing each other in bushes.
Roll Three Dice wrote: That video rather nearly demonstrates the main quibble I have with the game (which is otherwise fun to play - we’re on game three): there’s way too much RNG for what feels like the sake of it. I like a bit of chaos thrown into a wargame but the mechanics they’ve used just don’t feel like they add to the gameplay in either a ‘managing your luck’ way or a ‘crazy stuff might happen’ kind of way.
Rather, they seem to arbitrarily limit and constrain the players’ agency and take control away. including Random activation AND random turn lengths AND random commander traits that can hobble you before you’ve put your minis on the table feels like too much.
They can all be house ruled, but it makes me wonder what testing feedback was like.
Yeah we house ruled stuff like random commander traits out almost immediately - happy with the command rolls but not - oh yeah I have a awesome commander and you have a rubbish one....nah thats not going to fly except in narrative scenarios
Seems like they added more than was needed - we played sci-fi stuff in Dragon are with only a few extra unit types like Elite missiles and warmachines
Roll Three Dice wrote: That video rather nearly demonstrates the main quibble I have with the game (which is otherwise fun to play - we’re on game three): there’s way too much RNG for what feels like the sake of it. I like a bit of chaos thrown into a wargame but the mechanics they’ve used just don’t feel like they add to the gameplay in either a ‘managing your luck’ way or a ‘crazy stuff might happen’ kind of way.
Rather, they seem to arbitrarily limit and constrain the players’ agency and take control away. including Random activation AND random turn lengths AND random commander traits that can hobble you before you’ve put your minis on the table feels like too much.
They can all be house ruled, but it makes me wonder what testing feedback was like.
Random activation is actually a worthwhile addition to simulate chaos on the battlefield. You don´t act like an armchair general carefully considering your chess moves when you are in the thick of battle while bullets whistle past your head.
Edit:
One review mentioned the difficulty in fielding several MBTs as these units would break the game. Focus is on infantry and weaker armoured vehicles.
Well, we've finally gotten a review of Pulp! from Osprey:
and I'm very disappointed. Looks like another Osprey Blue Book system so generic as to be bland, with four or five tiers of hero/unit that you buy a few perks/edges/abilities for and some slapdash scenario creation rules and examples.
The biggest sin, in my eyes, is despite Osprey's book blurb reading, "Suitable for both solo and cooperative play as well as the classic head-to-head mode, Pulp! contains all the rules needed to game globetrotting escapades in this rip-roaring era," according to my pause-fu, it looks like the only allowance for solo is two lines in the introduction effectively saying that a single player can just play all sides to the best of their ability and rely on the dice mechanics to provide unpredictability. Which is, of course, the complete lack of solo support in game rules. You can play any game solo by playing both sides yourself!
I was hoping this game would give us at least rudimentary AI rules, which is the bare minimum expectation these days (especially since the pandemic) for claiming your game to be "suitable for solo play". I was hoping for this in order to give it an edge over Pulp Alley. (Pulp Alley solo rules provide a new deck to compensate for the lack of an opponent to play cards against you, but still rely on you to play the NPCs as if you were a second player.) But as it is, Pulp Alley provides more customization of your forces, more robust scenario support even in the corebook, and at least they go as far as publishing a Solo Deck to adjust the game for easier solo play.
Well, we've finally gotten a review of Pulp! from Osprey:
and I'm very disappointed. Looks like another Osprey Blue Book system so generic as to be bland, with four or five tiers of hero/unit that you buy a few perks/edges/abilities for and some slapdash scenario creation rules and examples.
The biggest sin, in my eyes, is despite Osprey's book blurb reading, "Suitable for both solo and cooperative play as well as the classic head-to-head mode, Pulp! contains all the rules needed to game globetrotting escapades in this rip-roaring era," according to my pause-fu, it looks like the only allowance for solo is two lines in the introduction effectively saying that a single player can just play all sides to the best of their ability and rely on the dice mechanics to provide unpredictability. Which is, of course, the complete lack of solo support in game rules. You can play any game solo by playing both sides yourself!
I was hoping this game would give us at least rudimentary AI rules, which is the bare minimum expectation these days (especially since the pandemic) for claiming your game to be "suitable for solo play". I was hoping for this in order to give it an edge over Pulp Alley. (Pulp Alley solo rules provide a new deck to compensate for the lack of an opponent to play cards against you, but still rely on you to play the NPCs as if you were a second player.) But as it is, Pulp Alley provides more customization of your forces, more robust scenario support even in the corebook, and at least they go as far as publishing a Solo Deck to adjust the game for easier solo play.
At least this review saved me $20, I guess.
Couldn't agree more. My feeling when watching the video was I shouldn't be paying for what is the bare minimum of a framework for pushing minis around and rolling a d6 to see who hits who.
If you're into solo play, this is the game for you, it has a massive amount of content with meaningful crunch and is free
Random activation is actually a worthwhile addition to simulate chaos on the battlefield. You don´t act like an armchair general carefully considering your chess moves when you are in the thick of battle while bullets whistle past your head.
.
Yup, I get that - I’ve played many games of dragon rampant and the mechanic makes perfect sense there, albeit still far from perfect. My issue with having the same system in xenos is not that units may not get to act before the other side seizes initiative (I actually really like that, especially combined with single action per activation), but rather how it all too often plays out in practice e.g., one side ends up with an unlucky streak doing nothing while their opponent runs rings around them. It feels too swingy and I personally don’t think it represents anything especially realistic: soldiers in a near / far future setting may not be omniscient but they would still be better trained equipped, and adapted to autonomous combat than medieval rank n file. They might miss the odd opportunity but to have them effectively standing around gormlessly staring while another unit with equivalent skills and gear calmly trots up over two turns before blowing them full of holes is stretching it a bit: On one occasion a player had two lower (but not trash) quality units that did literally nothing the entire game. That’s not fun, regardless how many in-world explanations you cook up. And yes, there’s free activations, but that starts to stifle the creativity in tactical play.
But, again - personal gripes. Like the other poster mentioned, we immediately binned random commander traits (experimenting with a point buy version) and are tinkering with activation to keep the uncertainty but build in a little more control. One house rule we are trying out is that a unit that fails an activation still forfeits the initiative, but gains a marker. Every marker adds one to that units next activation roll (and is then discarded). It’s working out quite well, but one player prefers to use the optional rule from dragon that allows you to attempt to activate all your units without triggering a ‘turnover’.
I ordered Pulp, Xenos, and Lion Rampant 2, along with Hard City the RPG.
Reviews will trickle out later this year. However, I am interested in what is in the hopper for the Osprey Wargaming Series for 2023. Have you enterprising Amazon and Bloomquist Publishing sites sleuths got a read on it yet?
Osprey sent an email and I think posted on Social about their 2023 Wargames coming out. There were only 3 books.
1. The Doomed- Chris McDowall
- This looks like a game about hunting Horrors in a Post-apoc system. I guess it may remind me a bit of Kingdom: Death- Monster but I am not familiar enough with that game to know for sure. Seems geared to solo/co-op play against an AI monster.
2. A War Transformed - The Great War meets the horrors of Forgotten Folklore- Frederick Silburn-Slater
- A game of weird WWI! I am always a fan.
This is another "skirmish" game but with occult overtones from the era. The blurb also mentions an initiative bidding system.
3. A Bolt Action: Italy
4. With Hot Lead and Cold Steel- ACW Rules- Arthur van der Ster
A large scale, mass battles game in the Blue Book series.
This one surprises me a bit considering Osprey all ready has a three book hard cover line of ACW books.
Well it's love at first sight for me with Doomed. Absolutely love the premise and the style. Loads of effort has gone in to the warbands photographed for the book. Looks really awesome. Love Osprey.
So is it gonna be good tho? I downloaded the beta document from the author's blog and it was an incoherent pile of junk*. But I suppose Osprey wouldn't publish an incoherent pile of junk so they mush have done some truly aggressive editing.
*and I say this as a fan of the author and as someone who has drank beer with Ana, their converter and painter
I'm really curious about that Doomed. Curious enough to grab a copy and see if I can figure out the rules.
At the very least the theme and what I've seen of it so far are exactly the kind of design to engage my imagination and get me whipped up into a painting and kitbashing frenzy!
I've had a good read of the book and I think individual mileage is gonna vary a lot on it. It is very rules-light but it's full of ideas - there are tons of monster types ("Horrors", some of which have "Minions", and they're all completely different) and more traditional objectives for player vs player games. There are plenty of follower types and weapons and optional upgrades to customise your warbands with. There's no range measuring (it suggests capping straight line move actions at 6" if you want to be strict) and no wound tracking or anything like that, so it should be very quick and brutal. I'm looking forward to giving it a go. It's got nowhere near the level of precision in the gameplay and campaign structure of something like Frostgrave and there are the typical amount of grammatical errors but no glaring formatting issues I could see.
Also, what sets this apart from Majestic 13 from Snarling Badger Studios, apart from the PVP element? That one's a not-XCOM hunting alien horrors game and this sounds very similar.
The game looks super fun, and I feel like a more RPG-leaning narrative game is often a great palate cleanser after too much 40k "competitive" stuff. I'll definitely grab a copy this morning.
Chris McDowell is also wonderful as a creator, as he makes supremely enjoyable and rules-light weird settings/games. I recommend his work extremely highly, but fair warning, he is very much into the spirit of vague rules, and encouraging players to just do what feels right in the moment. Depending on the kind of player you are, that can range from supremely liberating, to feeling undercooked, or anything in between.
For what it is worth, a friend at Gencon said the book sold through restocks on three separate days, as he kept going back and finding them sold out to his dismay. Apparently their demos were VERY effective at converting interest to sales, from what he was told.
My wife and I grabbed our copy just after my last post, and the next eight or nine hours of our lives just vanished.
The Doomed will not be for everyone as its narrative focus is complete anathema to "hardcore" or more traditionally competitive players, but for those who dig a Mordheim energy, who can give themselves over to a game that straddles the line of RPG/wargame, it will be a lot of fun.
In the vein of games like Frostgrave or This is Not a Test, I am 100% sold on The Doomed and will Day-One preorder any expansions or supplements. It is just the exact kind of fun-forward, weird, light game that made me a huge fan of McDowell's from his RPG work.
If you're into narrative gaming, I STRONGLY recommend this one!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: My wife and I grabbed our copy just after my last post, and the next eight or nine hours of our lives just vanished.
The Doomed will not be for everyone as its narrative focus is complete anathema to "hardcore" or more traditionally competitive players, but for those who dig a Mordheim energy, who can give themselves over to a game that straddles the line of RPG/wargame, it will be a lot of fun.
In the vein of games like Frostgrave or This is Not a Test, I am 100% sold on The Doomed and will Day-One preorder any expansions or supplements. It is just the exact kind of fun-forward, weird, light game that made me a huge fan of McDowell's from his RPG work.
If you're into narrative gaming, I STRONGLY recommend this one!
Well with your endorsement... I'll have to give the final version a look after all.
On the other hand, judging by the descriptions it also sounds like less like a game and more like an excuse to do some cool modelling and then occasionally put them on the table.
On the other hand, judging by the descriptions it also sounds like less like a game and more like an excuse to do some cool modelling and then occasionally put them on the table.
It's 100% a proper game. Some of its rule's wording is intentionally loose to allow for narrative play, but it is a full logical game through and through. We've been playing for a couple days now and it is so much fun!
> The core rules by Chris McDowall are incredibly light, fitting onto 10 pages. Models have a single stat, Quality, which ranges from 3+ for a leader to 5+ for a basic minion. Models get three actions per turn, and everything but the first move in a turn requires a roll equal to or over Quality to succeed.
Just a small heads-up... OnTableTop absolutely butchers the rules for the game in their four batreps. It still shows what a wild, fun, game it is, but it is VERY embarrassing considering the game has less than ten pages of rules, and they misplay massive things.
For those watching, Horrors and Minions get exhausted just like player units. Basically OTT makes the Horrors about 800% more deadly than they should be, by giving them 8x as many turns every round.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Just a small heads-up... OnTableTop absolutely butchers the rules for the game in their four batreps. It still shows what a wild, fun, game it is, but it is VERY embarrassing considering the game has less than ten pages of rules, and they misplay massive things.
For those watching, Horrors and Minions get exhausted just like player units. Basically OTT makes the Horrors about 800% more deadly than they should be, by giving them 8x as many turns every round.
I couldn't make it very far into the OnTableTop videos.
I haven't watched any of their stuff since they were still Beasts of War. Does dollar-store Alan Moore always do videos with the energy and coherence of someone who just woke up from a ten-hour nap?
Agreed. I don't get it, except that maybe the art is top tier and inspiring, but its not like there are minis out there to match that aesthetic.
Psychopomp wrote: I couldn't make it very far into the OnTableTop videos.
I haven't watched any of their stuff since they were still Beasts of War. Does dollar-store Alan Moore always do videos with the energy and coherence of someone who just woke up from a ten-hour nap?
Thats rude. He's a pretty nice guy... but yeah, he is kind of low-energy and discusses games with all the excitement of a golf broadcast. I have trouble holding attention on some of his longer videos, unless its one of the few things that he's *really* excited about and it sparks him into more energetic conversation.
I still think a far worse sin than being dull, is being paid to do a week of content for a small, indie game with rules teachable in five-minutes, and then posting ten hours of video content that gets those rules incredible wrong the entire time.
I'll never make fun of someone for their aesthetics, energy level, etc... but for the love of God, your literal job is to present the game in a solid way...
Yes OTT have the ability to un-sell a game to me with their low energy making everything look like a snorefest. I'll watch the occasional slow but informative unboxing.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Just a small heads-up... OnTableTop absolutely butchers the rules for the game in their four batreps. It still shows what a wild, fun, game it is, but it is VERY embarrassing considering the game has less than ten pages of rules, and they misplay massive things.
For those watching, Horrors and Minions get exhausted just like player units. Basically OTT makes the Horrors about 800% more deadly than they should be, by giving them 8x as many turns every round.
This is the main reason I have drifted away from watching the battle report channels that do a variety of games.
I would rather watch battle reports from channels that focus on one or two games and play them well, versus getting a shotgun blast of videos all played poorly.
Easy E wrote: People seem to be going Ga-Ga over this game.....
Goes to show that I have no idea what people like or want to play.
Maybe it combines the Turnip/Sludge kitbashing appeal with the Frostgrave simple-rules-complex-scenarios appeal and the One Page Rules “I don’t have time to learn more than 10 pages of rules” factor?
IIRC SOBAH has two basic stats, Combat and Quality. But yes, each model’s activation begins with an activation test. The neat part is you can choose to roll up to three dice for this test and take up to three actions if you succeed — but there is a push your luck element because if you fail on two rolls (our of two or three rolls) then initiative passes to your opponent. It’s quite fun but models are more defined by the plethora of special abilities you can give them than Combat and Quality. It can be tough to keep all the Special Rules in mind but the bigger challenge is designing warbands that match up well. (See my blog for my own hamfisted attempts.)
Seems models in The Doomed also get up to three actions upon activation but without a push your luck element for initiative. It seems that the Special Rules component comes in with weapon profiles?
I know “Inq28” refers to Inquisitor — but is the comparison to The Doomed just highlighting the Blanchitsu-inspired conversion scene? Inquisitor is a fairly crunchy rule set after all. One thing I love about Inquisitor, which is really a kind of RPG, is the way players describe what they intend to do with a model before rolling dice to see how many action the model can actually take. This results in all manner of fun, such as only getting halfway to the next bit of cover. Seems from the review that something similar is possible here, where your opponent gets to place a model that fails an activation test?
I will likely pick it up if I can find a good price.
Shame that OTT botched the rules for this brand new game. I generally have a tough time grokking their sleepy mumbling anyhow.
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Easy E wrote: People seem to be going Ga-Ga over this game.....
Goes to show that I have no idea what people like or want to play.
This is the best game play video I've ever seen. It doesn't have a host that drones on endlessly, it tells you what you need to know with just enough words, and plays in more-or-less real time. I've seen some videos for games where it takes them 45 minutes to show you how one round works and the host makes me want to rip my eardrums out.
As for the game itself; it's curiously simple but still seems to have quite a bit of depth. The single player mode seems to run pretty smooth.
A review of the Doomed by one of the posters on the Wargamevault:
"I've bought the book version of this.
I've been a fan of Chris McDowall's RPGs for many years. What I love most about his works is that he takes a specific idea/genre and is able to distil it down to its core.
Many can create a rules-light game, but only few can create a rules-light game that strips all that needs to be stripped and keep everything that needs to be kept.
At a glance The Doomed might seem overly simplified. Units for example have single Quality stat. Yet if you stack everything on top of each other (skills, weapon options, traits, the horror and conflict rules) you see a complete rich picture.
This system not only works very well trough just the right amount of complexity, but through it'simplicity it becomes a breeze to play and encourages hacking the game to your liking.
This isn't a game very competitive in nature. It's a "have fun at the table" game that makes it easy for your miniatures to do cool things and make those "epic" moments happen.
Biggest "weirdness" that this game doesn't require the measuring of distances in any way. (you can still optionally measure if you want). This works as follows. Each mini completes three actions (move, fight, shoot, etc.). The first move action is free, subsequent move actions need to pass a check. Better quality minis or minis that have the Nimble skill have a better chance to pass these Move checks.
A "Move" can be the following:
* Move as far as you can without hitting terrain or the board edge in one direction, or less.
* Hurdle over an obstacle
* Climb up/down
* Leap between buildings/terrain
Thematically, this makes sense to me as well. Considering it likely takes longer to run a distance, turn a tight corner, and run another distance than to run a similar distance in a straight line.
Shooting distance is also that you can shoot as far as your mini can see and has line of sight. Differences in weapons that would impact firing distance in one game are solved differently here. A sniper rifle for example might have "Aim" where the chance to hit are drastialy increased by spending all 3 of your Actions to aim.
Needless to say, not having to measure distances dramatically speeds up the game.
What really brings it home for me is that The Doomed contains many modes of play that all work flawlesly.
The books contains 36 Horrors, beings/monsters where every warband fight against, and 36 Conflicts that change the rules on how warbands interact with each other and twists on the battlefield setup.
* Play with multiple people, each controlling a warband, against each other using a Conflict
* Play with multiple people, each controlling a warband, against a horror. Either as a straight co-op or play against each other and the horror at the same time.
* Play with multiple people, each controlling a warband, against a horror and a conflict combined.
* play alone using a Conflict and using the conflict's solo rules.
* Play alone against a horror.
* Play alone against a horror and conflict.
And play all that in a longer campaign or in a quick on-off where creating a warband takes minutes.
The Doomed is incredibly easy to get to the table. Setting up a warband is simple, picking a scenario (horror and/or conflict) is simple, the rules are simple and there are so many modes of play, so many horrors and so many scenarios, and some many scenario twists to pick from the game will never feel stale.
I do have a couple of complaints.
I wished the warband creation system was a bit more varied/robust enough.
It's not like you wouldn't be able to fit any miniature somewhere in the options provided, it's that there isn't enough variety to distinguish them from other warband that are different, yet would fall under the same faction because of the limited options available.
The layout isn't ideal. I wished the text were formatted perhaps a bit more denely so page breaks would make more sense. The art that's there is great, but there isn't a lot of it.
Biggest complaint is that this book really should have gone through another read through before publishing. Whoever edited this had to do a better job. Through my first reading of the book I spotted several minor formatting mistakes like spaces in headers where there shouldn't be or the last letter of a title that should be in bold but aren't, table columns that weren't properly centred.
None of that is game breaking of course, but there were also actual mistakes like missing a crucial "no" in a rules phrase, missing stat for an enemy in a specific conflict, or the same Mods that is phrased differently in one place than it is in other places.
All in all, I would recommend this book to anyone that can look over (minor) mistakes and wants a simple but fun and quick game that they can play for a really long time.
The book contains so many modes of play, so many horrors, and so many conflicts it's going to take ages to get bored with this one. And even when it does, this is sure to remain in my repertoire to introduce newcomers to the hobby.''
Yep, I purchased the game after watching that video -- very effective! (YMMV; I was already pretty well convinced.) Although I will say I would now like to see the rest of that batrep!
Do any of you guys know what are the Osprey politics about reprinting books = do they reprint them exactly as they were originally (so the original errors are still there with a possible errata as a PDF file only) or do they include the errata thus fixing all errors found there? I ask because I like my dead tree books as perfect as possible, and would rather wait for the second printing of the Doomed even if now there are only some mirror errors found.
Shadow Walker wrote: Do any of you guys know what are the Osprey politics about reprinting books = do they reprint them exactly as they were originally (so the original errors are still there with a possible errata as a PDF file only) or do they include the errata thus fixing all errors found there? I ask because I like my dead tree books as perfect as possible, and would rather wait for the second printing of the Doomed even if now there are only some mirror errors found.
As far as I know, they don't do change anything about the book when reprinting unless it is a new edition of the book.
I love that The Doomed is finding its little niche in the community. I'd been playing so few tabletop wargames lately, mostly burned out of the competitive BS hamster-wheel, but this little game has utterly clicked in my home. My wife and I have probably played twenty-five times by now, part way through our fourth campaign, and it is still an absolute blast!
Out of curiosity, is that the way the folks in your area play mostly?
We're in a part of New York where generally a good/bigger game store always requires a healthy 45-minute drive. As a result the player base is smaller, but sees themselves as terribly "hardcore".
As a game designer I have spent years trying to broaden their game horizons. In an effort to prove how little skill is involved in their super serious "sport" style 40k/AoS, I told them I would come in and play those once a year, for their store championship, and would win. For two years running, I have done exactly that, for both systems. The 20-ish players always write it off as a fluke, and go right back to espousing the virtues of these "perfect" systems... Meanwhile I have run Crisis Protocol, Bloodbowl, and Middle-Earth events, and rarely crack more than five players.
So yeah... I have become very bitter, and it really made me start to resent a hobby I very much love.
Breaking out of the competitive GW bubble has saved my fandom.
Oh that's rough.... And I thought you'd have more clout with gamers. Did you move away from Russ and Raef? I basically play fringe systems like Turnip28 and Forbidden Psalm with 2 other people and semi-fringe like Dystopian Wars and MESBG with maybe 5 people, we get by. There's always friction with the 40k tryhards.
Out of curiosity, is that the way the folks in your area play mostly?
We're in a part of New York where generally a good/bigger game store always requires a healthy 45-minute drive. As a result the player base is smaller, but sees themselves as terribly "hardcore".
As a game designer I have spent years trying to broaden their game horizons. In an effort to prove how little skill is involved in their super serious "sport" style 40k/AoS, I told them I would come in and play those once a year, for their store championship, and would win. For two years running, I have done exactly that, for both systems. The 20-ish players always write it off as a fluke, and go right back to espousing the virtues of these "perfect" systems... Meanwhile I have run Crisis Protocol, Bloodbowl, and Middle-Earth events, and rarely crack more than five players.
So yeah... I have become very bitter, and it really made me start to resent a hobby I very much love.
Breaking out of the competitive GW bubble has saved my fandom.
That sounds awful. We have similar issues here in North Jersey, theres a very large group of 40k players in the area who turn up their noses at everything else, as well as a handful of warmachine holdouts that have the same attitude about their game despite it being not relevant anymore. Theres a solid core of guys who play indy games and whatnot but they are scattered and on the fringes of the hobby and congregate at shops off the beaten path, etc. on the most inopportune days at the most inconvenient times and mostly keep to themselves.
Between the pandemic and the iffyness of my fellow gamers, I went directly into solo wargaming. Gets my mini's painted, as well.
Good to hear you and your wife found a wargame you enjoy. Trying to get others out of Plato's cave never ends well.
I just needed a reminder that the hobby gets better and better the wider a net you cast. As a younger gamer, I got into the hobby through 40k because I was awed by the idea that "my guys" were unlike any other. Through painting, inventing stories, etc... my army was a unique project meant to last ages. Twenty years later, GW has aggressively tried to make that the exact opposite. Units are disposable, pushed by power-creep, and whole armies are meant to be swapped monthly if you're a "serious competitior" (TM). If you had told kid me that I was happier with one thousand point army, than I am with twenty-three, and over 400,000pts spread between 40k and AoS, I wouldn't have believed it.
The Doomed was a perfect curative for me, ironically, because its rules are so intentionally vague and loose. Normally I hate sloppy/vague rules writing, but The Doomed has this overwhelmingly accessible, "permissive" style, where it just feels very ok to fudge things, make it your own, etc. It was exactly what I needed, and now I feel reinvigorated to revisit my drastically underutilized Frostgrave, Stargrave, 5-Parsecs, and other rules.
The Doomed - question for people with the rules:
From the videos it looks like you can activate any Readied Unbound model. It looks very powerful when you play PVP as you can activate the one who is the most dangerous to your opponent at the time. Is it correct?
Shadow Walker wrote: The Doomed - question for people with the rules:
From the videos it looks like you can activate any Readied Unbound model. It looks very powerful when you play PVP as you can activate the one who is the most dangerous to your opponent at the time. Is it correct?
Sure can, but in our experience The Horror's are so deadly that the game is tensely co-op right until you take one out, unless the Mission has other time constraints. It's an interesting dynamic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SamusDrake wrote: The rules are very attractive but not hot on the setting. Might get a copy all the same.
For what it is worth, it is essentially setting agnostic. Chris McDowall intentionally never says what year it is, what happened to the world, etc...
Something came, and left anachronistically advanced technology for people, then left. The world is in horrific decline, and the walls of reality are thin and sometimes get punched through. After that you build your own narrative.
Shadow Walker wrote: The Doomed - question for people with the rules:
From the videos it looks like you can activate any Readied Unbound model. It looks very powerful when you play PVP as you can activate the one who is the most dangerous to your opponent at the time. Is it correct?
Sure can, but in our experience The Horror's are so deadly that the game is tensely co-op right until you take one out, unless the Mission has other time constraints. It's an interesting dynamic.
And what is your experience with the solo mode? Does it flow well?
So a friend and I played The Doomed today to see how it goes.
We repeated the starting scenario (Devourer+Breakthrough) four times with the same gangs and altering terrain layouts with appropriately dense terrain on a 3x3.
It took about 30 minutes per game, we punked the poor Devourer on round 1 every time so we never saw the minions he's supposed to summon. All games went to the same gang, which I take to mean that despite the streamlining, the game is not obnoxiously swingy and building the gang better pays off.
The rules are super slick but the decisions meaningful. There are, of course, plenty of corner cases where the book doesn't really tell you how to do things.
Will play again once I have more Terrors and Minions built.
Shadow Walker wrote: The Doomed - question for people with the rules:
From the videos it looks like you can activate any Readied Unbound model. It looks very powerful when you play PVP as you can activate the one who is the most dangerous to your opponent at the time. Is it correct?
Sure can, but in our experience The Horror's are so deadly that the game is tensely co-op right until you take one out, unless the Mission has other time constraints. It's an interesting dynamic.
And what is your experience with the solo mode? Does it flow well?
The game is so rules light that it absolutely flows well, and the Conflicts have small solo sections to adjust scenarios to work a bit more smoothly. That said, the AI is rudimentary. You don't notice vs. Horrors as their uniqueness works hand in hand with that simple AI, but enemy warbands end up feeling a bit "basic".
The game is so rules light that it absolutely flows well, and the Conflicts have small solo sections to adjust scenarios to work a bit more smoothly. That said, the AI is rudimentary. You don't notice vs. Horrors as their uniqueness works hand in hand with that simple AI, but enemy warbands end up feeling a bit "basic".
I intend to play solo mostly against Horrors so it should not be a big problem. Thanks
The game is so rules light that it absolutely flows well, and the Conflicts have small solo sections to adjust scenarios to work a bit more smoothly. That said, the AI is rudimentary. You don't notice vs. Horrors as their uniqueness works hand in hand with that simple AI, but enemy warbands end up feeling a bit "basic".
I intend to play solo mostly against Horrors so it should not be a big problem. Thanks
A LOT of creative situations, cool rewards, etc... come from the Conflicts so I would definitely not limit yourself to just the Horrors. That would cut half the fun out of the game.
The game is so rules light that it absolutely flows well, and the Conflicts have small solo sections to adjust scenarios to work a bit more smoothly. That said, the AI is rudimentary. You don't notice vs. Horrors as their uniqueness works hand in hand with that simple AI, but enemy warbands end up feeling a bit "basic".
I intend to play solo mostly against Horrors so it should not be a big problem. Thanks
A LOT of creative situations, cool rewards, etc... come from the Conflicts so I would definitely not limit yourself to just the Horrors. That would cut half the fun out of the game.
Thanks for the advice BTW did you get dead tree or PDF? I prefer physical books but if Osprey policy is like pointed above by @NH Gunsmith then I may get PDF rather, with the hope of it being updated and thus free of errors.
For what it is worth, it is essentially setting agnostic. Chris McDowall intentionally never says what year it is, what happened to the world, etc...
Something came, and left anachronistically advanced technology for people, then left. The world is in horrific decline, and the walls of reality are thin and sometimes get punched through. After that you build your own narrative.
Thanks for the advice BTW did you get dead tree or PDF? I prefer physical books but if Osprey policy is like pointed above by @NH Gunsmith then I may get PDF rather, with the hope of it being updated and thus free of errors.
Both. My wife is a purist and needs physical books at the table, whereas my physical disability makes it so much easier to use digital books. I wouldn't expect many fixes in future updates though, and to my eyes the errors are 100% of the typo variety. It's suuuuuper obvious no editor even glanced at the book as there are dozens of glaring spelling errors, missing words, etc... but none of it impacts the usability at all.
That said, I expect a future book supplement is already in the works. For people on Chris' mailing list, he loves sharing work-in-progress beta rules, and yesterday he shared rudimentary stuff for not-Dreadnauts, and other mechas/light vehicles.
Thanks for the advice BTW did you get dead tree or PDF? I prefer physical books but if Osprey policy is like pointed above by @NH Gunsmith then I may get PDF rather, with the hope of it being updated and thus free of errors.
Both. My wife is a purist and needs physical books at the table, whereas my physical disability makes it so much easier to use digital books. I wouldn't expect many fixes in future updates though, and to my eyes the errors are 100% of the typo variety. It's suuuuuper obvious no editor even glanced at the book as there are dozens of glaring spelling errors, missing words, etc... but none of it impacts the usability at all.
That said, I expect a future book supplement is already in the works. For people on Chris' mailing list, he loves sharing work-in-progress beta rules, and yesterday he shared rudimentary stuff for not-Dreadnauts, and other mechas/light vehicles.
Striders & Riders
Want to use power-walkers or Mech-like units in The Doomed?
How about some cavalry or bikers?
I've got you covered with Striders & Riders.
DISCLAIMER These rules are completely untested and likely broken.
STRIDERS
Great striding machines
Striders can be taken by any Faction and must be assigned to a Pilot, who can be any member of the Warband. When buying equipment, equip it to either the Pilot or the Strider.
Pilot and Strider act as if they were a single unit, receiving 3 actions as normal.
Use the Pilot’s QL and Skills for attacks. Attacks can only use weapons equipped to the Strider.
Use the Strider’s QL and Skills for all other actions.
When inside the Strider the maximum actions for Shooting and Fighting apply to each individual weapon, so a Strider with 3 ranged weapons could Shoot with each of them once per turn, using 3 Actions.
When the unit would be Killed the Pilot ejects safely. The Strider is disabled and now the Pilot can only use their own equipment.
STRIDER CLASSES
Mountain-Class (3+ Tough) [6pts]
Toughened Hull: Ignore any Shock rolls you wish.
Shield (+1 to Saves when Readied)
Raptor-Class (3+ Nimble) [5pts]
Shield (+1 to Saves when Readied)
Factory Class (3+) [4pts]
Tool-Claw (M1x3)
RIDERS
The cavalry of the doomed world
Riders can be taken by any Faction.
Every Rider must have a Mount. They are treated as one unit for all purposes, but each action is assigned to either the rider or mount, each with their own limit for specific actions. The combined unit of Rider and Mount still receive 3 Actions per turn as normal.
So a turn could look like this:
Action 1: The Rider uses Move and the combined unit moves.
Action 2: The Mount uses Move and the combined unit moves without needing to roll, as this is the Mount’s first move.
Action 3: The Mount uses Move, this time requiring a roll using their QL and Skills.
When they take Damage the player decides whether to Save as the Rider or Mount.
The first time the unit would be Wounded the Rider is instead Dismounted and the Mount is removed from the battle. The Rider suffers Shock but ignores any results that would have them die on this roll.
Use common sense when determining which terrain a rider can move through or over, but err on the side of generosity with a creative explanation.
MOUNTS
Steed (Tough 5+) [2pts]
Cannot carry equipment
Ram: Move into contact with an enemy and cause 1 Damage to them.
Beast (Fierce 4+) [5pts]
Cannot carry equipment
Ram: Move into contact with an enemy and cause 1 Damage to them.
Claws (M3x1)
Machine (Nimble 5+) [3pts]
Can be fitted with Ranged Weapons.
Ram: Move into contact with an enemy and cause 1 Damage to them.
Planning to play The Doomed again this afternoon, trying 3 new Terrors. And I'll be demoing it at a mini con at the end of the month.
I've also been pondering a Warcry reskin. I can't think of anything that Warcry rules accomplish that can't be done better and/or easier in The Doomed.
Rules look fluid enough that you can convert to other genres Spellcasters and psionicists, with these rules, would only have one special ability each, though I've seen similar in other miniature games.
Between scenarios, you have an event.
Was turned off by the idea of kitbashing, but the rules don't enforce WYSIWYG any more than any other miniatures game.
Time to dig out that copy of the Doom boardgame...!
Time to dig out that copy of the Doom boardgame...!
How meta
I played 4 more games last week, with 3 new Horrors, still very smooth. So far we've curbstomped the Devourer, Crusade Engine, Mystic Court and Sin Echo. We've only been doing "matched play", must try campaign soon.
Converted a few Warcry factions to Doomed as proof of concept, it's a breeze and it can't be more imba than the original.
Prometheum5 wrote: I hate that teeth terrain! But seriously, looks like an awesome setup. I'm jealous to see someone putting so much work into demoing games.
Thanks! It's the venue. There's a club of mostly teens and uni aged kids that meet weekly for hobby workshops, mostly painting RPG minis. Everything is free from the place to minis to paints to food and drink. Averages over 50 people per night. It's the place I wish I had when I was an outcast nerdy kid 20-30 years ago. So when they have larger, themed events, I try to bring an appropriate wargame (this was Lovecraft night) to broaden their hobby horizons from just RPGs and board games.
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