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Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 08:34:29


Post by: FrozenDwarf


I think it is about high time we got this thread, so we can keep the AT Projects thread clean and to its intensions.


So i guess i will begin.
Seeing as i am doing a return to the hobby after a serious burnout, i tought i would start with the Ventator maniple as Blackshields(cuz i cant paint 5 models the same style), as my "learn the game maniple" and add other titans as reinforcments for the bigger points battles.
I tought about axiom but i would have no idea how to use 2 Reavers.

As for loadouts i was thinking this so far:

Reaver: Turbo laser destructor+Melta+Gatling.
Warhound: nr1; 2x megabolter, nr2; megabolter+plasma, nr3; megabolter+plasma, nr4; 2x laser.

Now, traits/strats/wargear. last time i was in this hobby, there was only a few of them and i got only to play a demo game, so i am little overwhelmed by the selection now, but i think i have found some selections from the ryza book that might suit me:

Legio trait: motive mastery, path to ascension.
Strategem: marked pray, blistering march, eye for an eye, scouting run.
Wargear: ranging auspexes(usefull for the learning stages), hunting motives.

Any comments and feedback on this from you experienced players? (possibly other recomendations for a beginner?)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 09:35:02


Post by: Sherrypie


Venator is a solid maniple, especially on a board that has enough terrain to keep your leading Reaver safe from concentrated fire early on as you take positions. Your list looks good.

The Melta cannon is an A-ok pick for it as it won't overheat like the other high strength gun, Volcano Cannon. While I usually prefer to take missiles on top so that it can contribute to any popped shield even while out of LoS (doubly so if you use missile upgrades like Krytos' Earthbreakers or custom list tools like Fusion missiles) or work more reliably through shields on its own, the Turbolaser is also a good all-rounder for the opportunity attacks should they happen out of its Front Arc.

Now with Venator, your opponent knows the Reaver is a key part of your plan and will try to get rid of it if you present any easy opportunites. I've usually countered this by throwing the Hounds aggressively against the enemy line so that they MUST be dealt with quickly or they will rip stuff apart on their own, which can then be further synergized with by using legio rules like Tempestus' who can get extra shots off as they die so your pressure on the enemy doesn't fall as quickly (and can get even more opportunistic Melta shots off ). This can give you some space to hang around in the midfield with your Reaver, happily blasting away.

The most dangerous Hound is the bolter + plasma variant, it's quick, can hurt anything and contributes greatly to your efforts. However, that singular twin-laser engine you have there is also something I've had reasonable success with when it can sit at the extreme range and snipe down any remaining shields to let the Reaver do the heavy lifting. If you're using full (optional) rules, using Power Transfer to take Draining from shields instead of the reactor is a safe-ish option for this long range support unit when it's not going to be under fire that turn and ensures you aren't burning yourself on accident when pushing for Shieldbane.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 09:56:41


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Yea i was in doubt about the 2x laser hound but i honestly did not know what else to bring.
The only other options i can see is either a 3rd megabolter/plasma (nothing wrong with that realy, but could be a bit boring) or perhaps 2x plasma, but the issue with that is i have to be So fast with it else i fear it might get shot down before it gets in range since it would be a prioity kill based on the huge amount of dmg it in theory can do.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 11:19:10


Post by: SamusDrake


Agreed with the Venator, but for some matches you may want to go with the Ferrox maniple instead.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 12:59:43


Post by: FrozenDwarf


SamusDrake wrote:
Agreed with the Venator, but for some matches you may want to go with the Ferrox maniple instead.


Dont realy know how kit out and use the Reavers for that maniple.......


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 14:11:13


Post by: Sherrypie


Ferrox is an excellent maniple as well, it's my usual go-to for possible melee shenanigans. Its bonus is also applicable to all titans, so you can swap in a Warlord with a fist for hitting on 1+

Nice thing about the Ferrox is that it gives the Reavers a +1 Armour roll modifier they usually don't get without odd squadroning tricks but it doesn't require them to go for melee if you don't wish to. I've been running two maniples with midrange / melee tools, rushing the opposing line with melee engines that give them a scare and setting up danger close shots for the end game with the rest.

An example list for smaller games could be something like this:

-1x Reaver: powerfist, chainfist, apocalypse missiles. 300
-2x Warhound: megabolter, plasma blastgun. 440

-1x Reaver: gatling, melta, apocalypse missiles. 310
-2x Warhound: megabolter, plasma blastgun. 440

That's two maniples (and thus two Seniores for more traits and better Command values) and six engines in 1500, giving you plenty of choice to go for lots of activations or squadroning the Hounds for safer approach under shared shields to unleash punishing Coordinated Strikes when they get close. The melee Reaver could also swap the missiles for a turbolaser with the remaining 10 points or your legio might take some upgrades, who knows. If you enjoy living on the edge like me, swapping some Warhound arms for twin inferno cannons is also a spicy choice for a no-chill assault


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 14:23:47


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Intrsting, but that would be for when i actualy can play the game.
For now i will go with the Venator as my learning the game maniple.

Thanks for all help.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/10/19 14:44:11


Post by: SamusDrake


Pretty much what Sherrypie said!

Good luck with the game and hope you enjoy it.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/01 11:07:22


Post by: FrozenDwarf


So while i wait for more hounds, i desided to get a Warlord, mainly cuz i should have atleast one in my collection.
My supplyer only had the powerclaw/sunfury version so how is it? how is it best used, and can it work as a reinfocment or must it be part of a maniple?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/01 12:54:14


Post by: Sherrypie


Warlords are just like any other titans, some maniples have them and others don't. Any models can be used as reinforcements.

There are multiple ways to arm and use your Warlords, often according to their role as long range support, midfield brawlers or aggressive linebreakers.

If you only have the laser blaster / sunfury / claw setup, you want to push into the midboard where you can kill things with your high strength guns and deny ground by threatening anyone from wandering too close else they get fisted to death. You want someone else to strip the shields first, though, so pairing them up with dakka-Hounds or melta / gatling / missile Reavers might help. For smaller games, you might also consider the Mandatum maniple of one Warlord + 2-4 Warhounds, where the Hounds get bonuses to hit things that are within 12" of the advancing Warlord as well as more reliable commands.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/01 16:50:50


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Yea, i only have what is in the box. Aslong as i know it has a use, im happy.
Should i get some of the carpace weps from FW? seems they might fit the mid range job better..


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/01 20:15:24


Post by: Sherrypie


Six lasers still hurt, no doubt, but they are pricy in points and inaccurate over 16" while unable to target smaller things entirely if within 10".

You can never go wrong with Apocalypse missiles that are cheap and cheerful while being able to shoot to the table next to yours, but the king of midfield dakka does come from the carapace gatlings. 12 shots rip shields and with S5 Ordnance are quite capable of hurting things you've softened up with your plasma gun.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/10 16:15:42


Post by: FrozenDwarf


What are the new maniples in the latest book?
my dealer is out of stock for some time........


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/10 17:44:22


Post by: Sherrypie


Ignis combines Warhounds and Cerastus Acherons for barbeque parties by giving flamer weapons an extra die and ability to reroll Armour rolls of 1. Knights that are close to titans can also benefit from their First Fire and Full Stride orders without rolling for themselves.

Preceptor combines all existing titan types and allows you to choose one Order type every turn to succeed on a 2+ ignoring modifiers, so focused action through the line.

Squadroned Ignis forces sounds fun for swift burnination parties when I get the Acherons painted, especially on dangerous environments that might further increase their flamers' effects or alternatively in environments that reduce visibility and allow them to close safely.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/10 18:03:48


Post by: FrozenDwarf


 Sherrypie wrote:
Ignis combines Warhounds and Cerastus Acherons for barbeque parties by giving flamer weapons an extra die and ability to reroll Armour rolls of 1. Knights that are close to titans can also benefit from their First Fire and Full Stride orders without rolling for themselves.

Preceptor combines all existing titan types and allows you to choose one Order type every turn to succeed on a 2+ ignoring modifiers, so focused action through the line.

Squadroned Ignis forces sounds fun for swift burnination parties when I get the Acherons painted, especially on dangerous environments that might further increase their flamers' effects or alternatively in environments that reduce visibility and allow them to close safely.


Sounds allso like a greate maniple for more "storytelling" battlereports.

What is the setup of Preceptor? (demi and full)



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/10 18:16:21


Post by: Sherrypie


Correcting myself, it was actually Precept maniple. Anyhoo, it's made up from:

1 Warlord, 1 Warbringer, 1-2 Warhounds and 0-1 Reaver


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/14 12:09:45


Post by: FrozenDwarf


How do you assemble the reaver powerfist fingers open thumb section?

i dont have the assembly booklet anymore and the parts makes no sence.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/17 20:05:19


Post by: SamusDrake


OMG that thumb was a pain in the ass.

Did you get there in the end?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/17 20:12:41


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Its on there, if its right or not that is another thing, but it looks correct (at an angle).


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/17 21:25:12


Post by: SamusDrake


Cool beans. I have the instructions somewhere should the need arise again.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 14:43:56


Post by: the_scotsman


I'm looking for a bit of advice from AT veterans on how to compose my forces. I'm looking to create two interesting opposing forces

I'm 3d printing the miniatures I'll be using for AT, and I have several files already. I have a wonderful set of Warlord files, which will take...a while, but will look extremely nice so I would definitely make a couple of those.

I have several different armor and head designs as well as all the weapons for Warhound titans

And I have very nice files for all Knights save for the new Poryphion, which I'm not super interested in anyway because I've heard it's a bit OP. This includes Styrix and Megaera knights.

What I have not been able to find is any kind of a good file for a Reaver titan. While i'm not like...religiously opposed to paying full price for the GW kit for a Reaver, I'm wondering how vital the Reaver titan is to the game experience. The only thing that really saddens me is that the Reaver seems like a good candidate for a melee titan, as Warhounds don't have melee weapons and Warlords seem like melee is a huge commitment/gamble of your one big boi. That leaves melee pretty much solely the purview of Knights and Cerastus knights. Will that lead to more boring games? Is bringing the big claw on the warlord titan less of a dumb gamble than it seems?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 17:05:13


Post by: FrozenDwarf


zero ingame expeirence, but i can say this: 1 reaver in your collection is a must.

While the warlord powerclaw desimates anything if it hits, it takes time to get there. Chainfist+powerclaw reaver can get in faster and do enugh hurt to the point where the warlord or shooting reaver dont want you anywhere near it.

If we compare the stats if i understand them correctly; Warlord only has access to powerclaw and you only want one of it due to the concussive trait that can, if the dices rolls bad, knock the titan out of mele reach.
So that would be S12, 3 dices.

Reaver has 2 different meleweps; powerfist(same as powerclaw just weaker) and chainfist with the rending trait(some sort of bonus dmg i think)
So that would be S9 2 dices + S8 3 dices, OR S8 6 dices if you usedouble chainfist.


The odds of getting dmg in mele is bigger with a double first reaver then a warlord, but the warlord hurts more if it hits.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 17:11:04


Post by: Sherrypie


No single class is required for a satisfying game. All Warhounds, all Warlords, all Knights, all armies can work and be fun if often easier to counter than varied forces.

Reavers are the primary melee titans in the game, with some actual staying power on the way in and enough speed that they can reliably connect in time to contribute and punch people to death. If you want to go melee, you want Reavers that don't get instantly vaporized like Knights do when faced with some actual guns.

All titans can however contribute with occasional Charges and such, because you don't need dedicated melee weapons to be able to crump some face. Smash attacks can occasionally offer a surprise to unwary opponents, especially after a punishing salvo last turn has crippled a target that then gets shoulder-bashed to bits.

A melee Warlord (with one claw, it's killy enough you never need the other unless you're intentionally shooting yourself in the foot for style reasons) can do wonders and I've ripped and torn quite a few engines apart with mine. It does need support or dedication to work properly, though, because it is very slow if you aren't concentrating on one thing at a time. It provides a nasty counterpunch to anyone running too deep in your lines and denies area around it on the field while being relatively cheap, but is a big opportunity cost of not shooting another big gun all day if you don't focus on using it. Keep in mind that its value can fluctuate wildly depending on your mission, in closer deployments or wackier scenarios it can be an absolute MVP if it can get into grips with the enemy from the get-go. Several synergies can also make it rather viable, like Astorum's extra speed on turns 1-2, Traitors' extra speed stratagem War Lust, 2d6" warp magic teleport shenanigans in the Combat Phase for surprise fisting and many more.

As with everything in this game, it depends heavily on the rest of your list, your tactics on the field and the scenario being played.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 17:30:54


Post by: the_scotsman


Well, I'm magnetizing everything already and I do have a file for the warlord powerfist, so I suppose it just costs me the time to paint it and the resin it's printed with, which will be approximately 2$ if I make it hollow.

I guess if games feel like just shooting galleries I can always just bite the bullet and buy a reaver in plastic. So far all I have is 1 warhound fully magnetized and assembled and 2 cerastus knights fully magnetized and assembled, and I'm trying to finagle a layout where I can print 2 mechanicum questoris at once. Havent even gotten into the probably 4 or 5 print runs itll take to get together a warlord.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 18:00:31


Post by: SamusDrake


the_scotsman wrote:
And I have very nice files for all Knights save for the new Poryphion, which I'm not super interested in anyway because I've heard it's a bit OP.


Since the last FAQ, thankfully not.

That FAQ bought their points and banner size back into balance. They also lost their coordinated strike order, as they can no longer be taken as part of a lance.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 19:46:42


Post by: Sherrypie


the_scotsman wrote:Well, I'm magnetizing everything already and I do have a file for the warlord powerfist, so I suppose it just costs me the time to paint it and the resin it's printed with, which will be approximately 2$ if I make it hollow.

I guess if games feel like just shooting galleries I can always just bite the bullet and buy a reaver in plastic. So far all I have is 1 warhound fully magnetized and assembled and 2 cerastus knights fully magnetized and assembled, and I'm trying to finagle a layout where I can print 2 mechanicum questoris at once. Havent even gotten into the probably 4 or 5 print runs itll take to get together a warlord.


Shooting galleries are fixed by scenario objectives that require maneuver and using terrain to force it, so that's easy.

SamusDrake wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
And I have very nice files for all Knights save for the new Poryphion, which I'm not super interested in anyway because I've heard it's a bit OP.


Since the last FAQ, thankfully not.

That FAQ bought their points and banner size back into balance. They also lost their coordinated strike order, as they can no longer be taken as part of a lance.


Eh, those were never the important factors. The problem is and still remains that their guns are ridiculous both from the immersive perspective (why are those lascannons somehow turbolasers on steroids, again? Why do their puny missile racks pump out more dakka than megabolters, again?) and mechanicswise (the amount of Blasts to be scattered after the inevitable slew of misses is tedious beyond reason). The way they ought to have been done would have been to accept that their original stats were dumb and then redo them more in line with turbolasers, where the Households' answer to titan killing shooting would be to just bring more of them at lower points costs. They'd still fill the role they have now, abide by the verisimilitude of the rest of the game and actually work within the Lance system.

Now they still outshoot Reavers in a duel until they straight up explode to Critical Hits. That's still dumb swinginess in a game that has a lot of good, dumb swinginess too (like reactor meltdowns).


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/18 22:47:13


Post by: SamusDrake


 Sherrypie wrote:


Eh, those were never the important factors. The problem is and still remains that their guns are ridiculous both from the immersive perspective (why are those lascannons somehow turbolasers on steroids, again? Why do their puny missile racks pump out more dakka than megabolters, again?) and mechanicswise (the amount of Blasts to be scattered after the inevitable slew of misses is tedious beyond reason). The way they ought to have been done would have been to accept that their original stats were dumb and then redo them more in line with turbolasers, where the Households' answer to titan killing shooting would be to just bring more of them at lower points costs. They'd still fill the role they have now, abide by the verisimilitude of the rest of the game and actually work within the Lance system.

Now they still outshoot Reavers in a duel until they straight up explode to Critical Hits. That's still dumb swinginess in a game that has a lot of good, dumb swinginess too (like reactor meltdowns).


Strongly disagree and for good reason; the low points allowed a player to spam an opponent, unless they took the same amount of Acastus to balance out. That alone broke the game.

In everyone of our match ups as legio vs Household, the Household( with 2 Porphyrions ) would always win, simply because the Household was able to spend those saved points on a supporting warhound, with a bit of juggling on the Questoris loadouts. We even scrapped the blast trait and it made no difference - the Legio was still getting slaughtered. Since the FAQ that Warhound is no longer in the list and as the Legio player I've been winning games, for a change.

And then there was the super low cost of the Asterius - the same price as the Porphyrion! Seriously, how was that not a glaring problem when you can upgrade for free, get +1 damage and to go from 3" to 5" blast radius?

The banner size was insult to injury; Adding an extra two knights saved a further 20 points, further increased their ion saves and could add an additional +2 damage on coordinated strikes. Supposed to be roughly the size of a scout titan but can field the same amount of knights as the smaller, more fragile Cerastus? That felt off...





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, Sherrypie, I forgot to respond regarding the missile racks on the Acastus.

While one is paying the points now, you are correct in that they don't feel right against the other missile racks on the Questoris nor the Reaver and Warlord. For the Porphyrion's Ironstorm, try the following adjustments; remove the rapid trait, reduce the dice by 1. For the Asterius Karacnos...tricky one; remove rending trait, reduce dice by 2, increase strength by 1?

Rapid really belongs to the "gatling" weapons which produce a deluge of bullets, while rending feels more at home with melee weapons. The barrage trait feels right, though.

For the Porphyrion...as an artilary piece I'd probably opt for their cannons being more acurate at long range, and make them less dangerous as the distance is closed. Maybe the Asterius less dangerous at long range as their beam has further to travel and losing energy over distance?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 11:22:51


Post by: Sherrypie


That's not a very strong argument against what I said, though, because the low points cost was mainly an issue because of the ridiculousness of their guns. If their firepower would be a lot weaker, as it should have been from the start, them being a lot cheaper than titans while still being the most expensive knights would be absolutely fine. They can still die to singular shots, which doesn't feel that appropriate for the flow of the game when they start pushing 200 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Asterius, you're a bit off base in that conversion weapons increase their effect over distance with handwavy scifi by converting mass into energy instead of decreasing by attenuation like you'd normally expect from beams.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 16:37:26


Post by: SamusDrake


 Sherrypie wrote:
That's not a very strong argument against what I said, though, because the low points cost was mainly an issue because of the ridiculousness of their guns. If their firepower would be a lot weaker, as it should have been from the start, them being a lot cheaper than titans while still being the most expensive knights would be absolutely fine. They can still die to singular shots, which doesn't feel that appropriate for the flow of the game when they start pushing 200 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Asterius, you're a bit off base in that conversion weapons increase their effect over distance with handwavy scifi by converting mass into energy instead of decreasing by attenuation like you'd normally expect from beams.


I see where you are coming from( nerf the stats until it makes sense ) but the fact is that 110 points doesn't begin to describe a knight that was designed to be comparable to a scout titan, such as the Warhound which ranges between 200 and 240 points. At best it describes a hench Cerastus with dual, improved battlecannons...which should definitely be a thing.

To achieve a one-shot score of 17+ requires the strongest weapons in the game, maybe some legio traits here and there; A reaver's melta cannon for instance. Otherwise, a devastating hit is much more likely to happen. It might be a knight but its still an exceptionally tough one.

If even the stats were nerfed, it would only be along the lines of the cannon strength being brought down to 6 & 7, cannons and beams respectively. Thats still not close to 110 points.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:

On the Asterius, you're a bit off base in that conversion weapons increase their effect over distance with handwavy scifi by converting mass into energy instead of decreasing by attenuation like you'd normally expect from beams.


Okay, we'll scratch that then!


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 18:36:42


Post by: Sherrypie


Right, but the problem there is still not primarily about the points as much as the huge questionmark about why said knight that's almost comparable to a scout titan outshoots battle titans. That's a rules problem, not a points problem, though the two naturally feed off of each other especially in how you could buy singular ones for cheap to pad out your activations.

They are tough and I like them to be such, so that there are also some knights that do not immediately die to bigger guns pointed in their general direction. I do however feel the need to emphasize that it's not that hard to get 17+ hits on them if you know you might be facing such forces (even without tailoring against them). Cheap and cheerful Warhounds in squadrons (especially in Lupercal or Ferrox maniples) can pump out effective Str 10+2 plasma shots all day long, big guys in Extermigus maniples can go higher, Blast weapons can get +1 Str from Macro Charges, plasma weaponry can use +2 Str stratagems like Overcharged Cannon et cetera before we get deeper into the Legio rules. I feel that's currently in a pretty sweet spot in that most hits against Acastii are Devastating and whittle them down with occasional Criticals every now and then, but that feeling is broken by their obnoxious amount of shooting in comparison to the work the titans have to go through to match theirs. Because of their rules they have to be focused on and that can screw the game experience on the field, which is a problem that isn't solely addressable by points.

Lowering their stats would of course require another go at pointing them, but as they are it is a requirement for using them in good conscience and having a good game.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 22:43:07


Post by: SamusDrake


With all due respect, I've made my points as clear as I can. From here on, we can only go round in circles.

With that said, Sherrypie, I hope you don't mind.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 22:45:54


Post by: Sherrypie


Nah, all good. It's mostly academic curiosity at the point when all involved agree that the things were busted


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 23:14:47


Post by: SamusDrake


Bless ya.

For what its worth, the whole Acastus drama last year was quickly killing my enthusiasm for the game, and then the "restraining order" in the FAQ finished me off...and to think I was ready to order another three boxes of them. Sigh.

Purchased Defence of Ryza and called it a day.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 23:23:00


Post by: Sherrypie


To be fair, it does highlight how healthy the game is otherwise that in these two years the Acastus has been pretty much the only stupid thing. Even the original custom legio shenanigans were mostly dumb fun instead of being broken (and subsequently fixed well in Ryza).


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/19 23:52:25


Post by: SamusDrake


Yeah, the WD crusade rules were probably the best thing to happen last year.

With a lack of maniples that feature knights, the legio traits that benefit supporting freeblades went a long way.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/24 17:41:49


Post by: the_scotsman


If I'm looking to create a couple of 1000-point forces to play against one other, does this structure sound like a good one?

-Force A has a trio of warhound titans, supported by a lance of cerastus knight lancers as a distraction carnifex to delay an opponent trying to focus fire on the small warhounds

-Force B has a single pimped-out warlord, 1 lance of questoris knights and 1 lance of mechanicum knights providing screening and void shield stripping.

The idea behind it is that Force A has easier titans to destroy, so Force B has a bunch of smaller targets that you can easily hurt and 1 big bruiser.

Both forces would be 1000pts, with variable wargear as I am currently magnetizing absolutely everything (which is a lot of extra time and effort let me tell you)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/24 18:46:48


Post by: Sherrypie


I'll assume you're talking in a matched play context.

Remember that you cannot mix Maniples and Lances (trios of knights Banners) in the same army, ie. you can have bonus rules for one but not both types.

Maniple bonuses, legio traits and the ability to squadron pretty much always trump the gains from Lances if the force is pretty evenly split, so your Force A should probably just be a Lupercal maniple of three Warhounds and as many supporting Cerastus Banners as you can fit. That gives you more hitting power and activations, which suits their high mobility. This is a solid group.

Force B would not have enough titans to make up a maniple, so you need at least one full Lance (because an army begins with either at least one Maniple or Lance) of three Banners. Going with Warlords in such a small game is a huge activation disadvantage, because you basically have a Lance, the supporting Warlord and mayyyybe one supporting Banner if squeezing. You can do it, but the Warhound force is going to eat this group alive simply by spreading around, dodging the Warlord for a while and blasting the Knights sky-high with plasma guns before descending on the impotent Warlord.

Now, if you want to just have a bash without maniples or lances limiting the situation, you'll probably have fun doing it but the Warhound side is still going to win hard.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/24 19:01:15


Post by: the_scotsman


Hm. Well, I'm not spending a billion years printing, building, and painting this warlord to not play with it so I'll have to figure out how to make use of it. Is activation advantage such a big deal that there's no way to make a warlord work in a game that small? What would be the minimum size you'd consider bringing one to the table?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/24 19:22:34


Post by: Sherrypie


Activation economy is pretty key in this game, considering it can mean the difference between life and death on who sits in whose firing arcs. Warlords in particular, with only 1-2 45 degree turns available to them per turn when they wish to fire, really benefit from having smaller units to act first so that they can then lumber into position and let rip.

Warlords can work in a 1000 point game, for an example in a Mandatum maniple (Warlord + 2-4 Warhounds) where you have Warhounds prowling around and threatening the enemy before the Warlord commits, but I personally prefer to run lighter engines before 1500 points since more moving parts tends to give you better ability to respond on the field.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/24 19:50:56


Post by: the_scotsman


 Sherrypie wrote:
Activation economy is pretty key in this game, considering it can mean the difference between life and death on who sits in whose firing arcs. Warlords in particular, with only 1-2 45 degree turns available to them per turn when they wish to fire, really benefit from having smaller units to act first so that they can then lumber into position and let rip.

Warlords can work in a 1000 point game, for an example in a Mandatum maniple (Warlord + 2-4 Warhounds) where you have Warhounds prowling around and threatening the enemy before the Warlord commits, but I personally prefer to run lighter engines before 1500 points since more moving parts tends to give you better ability to respond on the field.


True. Maybe I need to bump up the points a little bit so that I can get the warlord into a maniple and get them...sigh...sweet, sweet, seventh edition formation bonuses.

Oh formations. How i thought I was done with you, finally.

It's not even really a matter of not having the models - a warhound costs me approximately 4 dollars to make, a warlord about 16, it just takes such a long damn time to paint everything up with all the magnetized components.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/24 20:57:49


Post by: Sherrypie


Unlike formations, though, maniples are cool and actually do factor in your strategy towards the game instead of being simple power picks.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/25 19:23:04


Post by: the_scotsman


 Sherrypie wrote:
Unlike formations, though, maniples are cool and actually do factor in your strategy towards the game instead of being simple power picks.


That's true. I think if I had my pick, I'd probably choose to incorporate a bit more unit variety into the game rather than the sort of 'artificial depth' that the layering of formations, 8th ed-style stratagems, traits etc bring to the game.

I've played my first few games now, and I think it's an absolutely fantastic skeleton for a large scale warhammer game. Rather than trying to cobble together all the rules and splatbooks to get all the stratagems, traits, legio traits, bonuses etc etc I think I'll probably homebrew in a few more additional units to keep things interesting.

It seems like the Knight rules are a fairly simple framework for adding in Imperial Army support units into the game. I think it's probably pretty unlikely that the Space Marine legions would be anywhere near titanic conflicts, but Leman Russ tank companies, Ordinatus vehicles, and Superheavy tank companies could 100% be worked in.

We know what the AT stats are for a lot of the weaponry mounted on these vehicles (Volcano Cannons, Vulcan Megabolters, Plasma Blastguns, Bellicosa Volcano Cannons, and Rapid Fire Battlecannons do already have stats, after all)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/25 23:12:14


Post by: SamusDrake


Treat yourself to a reaver and save the Warlord for when you are ready to progress to the higher point games.

A reaver enjoys 360 degree fire arcs for its carapace weapons and will keep the hounds on their toes. This will also free up the budget to include another freeblade banner for increased mobility.

Enjoy the extra time to assemble and paint the Warlord in the meantime...


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/26 05:07:49


Post by: Crablezworth


the_scotsman wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Unlike formations, though, maniples are cool and actually do factor in your strategy towards the game instead of being simple power picks.


That's true. I think if I had my pick, I'd probably choose to incorporate a bit more unit variety into the game rather than the sort of 'artificial depth' that the layering of formations, 8th ed-style stratagems, traits etc bring to the game.

I've played my first few games now, and I think it's an absolutely fantastic skeleton for a large scale warhammer game. Rather than trying to cobble together all the rules and splatbooks to get all the stratagems, traits, legio traits, bonuses etc etc I think I'll probably homebrew in a few more additional units to keep things interesting.

It seems like the Knight rules are a fairly simple framework for adding in Imperial Army support units into the game. I think it's probably pretty unlikely that the Space Marine legions would be anywhere near titanic conflicts, but Leman Russ tank companies, Ordinatus vehicles, and Superheavy tank companies could 100% be worked in.

We know what the AT stats are for a lot of the weaponry mounted on these vehicles (Volcano Cannons, Vulcan Megabolters, Plasma Blastguns, Bellicosa Volcano Cannons, and Rapid Fire Battlecannons do already have stats, after all)


The issue is the alternating activation can slow things down somewhat, so while I agree some additional small units can improve things, too far into combined arms combat and you lose the core game, which really imo is the titans and their detailed command terminals/interactions. I'll give you an example, titan hunter infantry are a great battlefield asset stratagem, but each one is an activation in the combat phase, so a couple isn't an issue but 3 sets of them and you're talking 6 extra activations on top of your battlegroup. A lot of my friends are only interested in AT if it's like apoc level massive and 4000pts aside and I try and tell them they won't have the patience for that and each turn will be incredibly long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SamusDrake wrote:
Treat yourself to a reaver and save the Warlord for when you are ready to progress to the higher point games.

A reaver enjoys 360 degree fire arcs for its carapace weapons and will keep the hounds on their toes. This will also free up the budget to include another freeblade banner for increased mobility.

Enjoy the extra time to assemble and paint the Warlord in the meantime...


Agreed, the reaver is the most flexible and I love the crapace's 360 degree arc, I definitely want to add a third reaver at some point.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/26 07:26:42


Post by: FrozenDwarf


the_scotsman wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Unlike formations, though, maniples are cool and actually do factor in your strategy towards the game instead of being simple power picks.


That's true. I think if I had my pick, I'd probably choose to incorporate a bit more unit variety into the game rather than the sort of 'artificial depth' that the layering of formations, 8th ed-style stratagems, traits etc bring to the game.

I've played my first few games now, and I think it's an absolutely fantastic skeleton for a large scale warhammer game. Rather than trying to cobble together all the rules and splatbooks to get all the stratagems, traits, legio traits, bonuses etc etc I think I'll probably homebrew in a few more additional units to keep things interesting.

It seems like the Knight rules are a fairly simple framework for adding in Imperial Army support units into the game. I think it's probably pretty unlikely that the Space Marine legions would be anywhere near titanic conflicts, but Leman Russ tank companies, Ordinatus vehicles, and Superheavy tank companies could 100% be worked in.

We know what the AT stats are for a lot of the weaponry mounted on these vehicles (Volcano Cannons, Vulcan Megabolters, Plasma Blastguns, Bellicosa Volcano Cannons, and Rapid Fire Battlecannons do already have stats, after all)


honestly, at this point i think you are better off playing your games as epic armageddon.
titanicus is only about 3 things: titans vs titans, titans vs knights, knights vs knights.

i suspect the only reason to why there has been a bigger fokus on knight model releases then titan releases is that there is no other game where you can play large scale knight forces, since apocalypse games for 40k are "cumbersome"



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/26 08:01:58


Post by: Sherrypie


The latest Apocalypse isn't, it's a very sleek system for that purpose but then again, it shares more with Epics than 40k.

40k proper is ill suited for anything larger like that ;P


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 02:56:22


Post by: Racerguy180


 Sherrypie wrote:
The latest Apocalypse isn't, it's a very sleek system for that purpose but then again, it shares more with Epics than 40k.

40k proper is ill suited for anything larger like that ;P


Current Apoc kicks ass!

I really hope that Rapiers/subjugators get released soon


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 09:56:13


Post by: FrozenDwarf


i dont see any apoc bat reps on the tube at all........

still, it is prolly cheaper to buy 20 AT knights then 20 40k knights =P


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 13:36:07


Post by: Mr_Rose


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
i dont see any apoc bat reps on the tube at all........

still, it is prolly cheaper to buy 20 AT knights then 20 40k knights =P

Guerrilla Miniature Games has them semi-regularly.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 14:06:42


Post by: Sherrypie


 Mr_Rose wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
i dont see any apoc bat reps on the tube at all........

still, it is prolly cheaper to buy 20 AT knights then 20 40k knights =P

Guerrilla Miniature Games has them semi-regularly.


They did like two or so a year ago, wouldn't really call that even irregular. Big part of the problem is the 40k community audience, who don't appreciate other systems. On StrikingScorpion82's channel, for example, they played a couple of Apoc games and liked the system, but the audience feedback shouted their big games back into 40k rules for... reasons.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 14:26:56


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Sherrypie wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
i dont see any apoc bat reps on the tube at all........

still, it is prolly cheaper to buy 20 AT knights then 20 40k knights =P

Guerrilla Miniature Games has them semi-regularly.


They did like two or so a year ago, wouldn't really call that even irregular. Big part of the problem is the 40k community audience, who don't appreciate other systems. On StrikingScorpion82's channel, for example, they played a couple of Apoc games and liked the system, but the audience feedback shouted their big games back into 40k rules for... reasons.

True they play way more BFG than AT18 but there as one last week and they’ve done more than “like two.” Here’s the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzrPO7KIAtwXinarMCsBc_O-kK4iuyPAZ


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 15:21:31


Post by: Sherrypie


 Mr_Rose wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
i dont see any apoc bat reps on the tube at all........

still, it is prolly cheaper to buy 20 AT knights then 20 40k knights =P

Guerrilla Miniature Games has them semi-regularly.


They did like two or so a year ago, wouldn't really call that even irregular. Big part of the problem is the 40k community audience, who don't appreciate other systems. On StrikingScorpion82's channel, for example, they played a couple of Apoc games and liked the system, but the audience feedback shouted their big games back into 40k rules for... reasons.

True they play way more BFG than AT18 but there as one last week and they’ve done more than “like two.” Here’s the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzrPO7KIAtwXinarMCsBc_O-kK4iuyPAZ


We were discussing Apocalypse, not Adeptus Titanicus. GMG does do AT fairly often, which is nice.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/28 16:23:15


Post by: Crablezworth


Semi related to tactics, I've found relegating outflanking/deepstriking to strategems sorta bad for the core game. For one they're both tempered like everything else by alternating activation. Both of those forms of disruption add a lot to 30k/40k and one of the more boring elements of AT is even with varied deployment, a lot of the times it just feels like two lines clashing, there's some flanking but not as common without a table with considerable large los blockers. Been playing our games with outflanking as a core mechanic, limit is 1/3rd of battlegroup and 1sp per titan or banner outflanking. It's added a lot to our games, even the big scary titans feel less "safe". It's increased the enjoyment on both sides because neither of us tend to know when/where our outflankers will come in and it really shifts the battle.

Again when stuff like reaver's carapace or acastus's 360 arc really come in handy.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2020/11/30 13:20:22


Post by: the_scotsman


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Unlike formations, though, maniples are cool and actually do factor in your strategy towards the game instead of being simple power picks.


That's true. I think if I had my pick, I'd probably choose to incorporate a bit more unit variety into the game rather than the sort of 'artificial depth' that the layering of formations, 8th ed-style stratagems, traits etc bring to the game.

I've played my first few games now, and I think it's an absolutely fantastic skeleton for a large scale warhammer game. Rather than trying to cobble together all the rules and splatbooks to get all the stratagems, traits, legio traits, bonuses etc etc I think I'll probably homebrew in a few more additional units to keep things interesting.

It seems like the Knight rules are a fairly simple framework for adding in Imperial Army support units into the game. I think it's probably pretty unlikely that the Space Marine legions would be anywhere near titanic conflicts, but Leman Russ tank companies, Ordinatus vehicles, and Superheavy tank companies could 100% be worked in.

We know what the AT stats are for a lot of the weaponry mounted on these vehicles (Volcano Cannons, Vulcan Megabolters, Plasma Blastguns, Bellicosa Volcano Cannons, and Rapid Fire Battlecannons do already have stats, after all)


honestly, at this point i think you are better off playing your games as epic armageddon.
titanicus is only about 3 things: titans vs titans, titans vs knights, knights vs knights.

i suspect the only reason to why there has been a bigger fokus on knight model releases then titan releases is that there is no other game where you can play large scale knight forces, since apocalypse games for 40k are "cumbersome"



The game I really want to play is essentially Epic, but slightly more zoomed out (I'm basically keeping Infantry at an abstraction level of assigning a points cost to the Titan Hunter Infantry stratagem and calling it Entrenched Infantry Assets. In order to reduce the activations bloat, I'm keeping "2 questoris Knights" as my rough baseline for the minimum points that a unit should cost. So if I homebrew, say, Leman Russ Tank Companies into the game, there'll be a minimum squad size of 4 tanks with roughly equivalent cost to 2 questoris knights.

I have looked over the rules for Epic Armageddon and honestly, it seems to have the exact same issues with the bigger flashier titan class units that Apoc does: They're just flat out boring. If anything, units like Baneblades and Leman Russes and other imperial army support will be quicker to run than Knights, since they don't use Ion Shields - I was just planning on having Baneblade chassis tanks having no ion shields but higher hit thresholds than Knights, representing the fact that they are approximately equally difficult to bring down but one has Ion Shielding and the other has layer after layer of blunt, stupid armor.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/23 17:17:31


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Am i alone on saying straight up >nope< to the Warmaster?

Just too mutch to model and paint for me, warhounds are my perfect size


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/24 03:49:38


Post by: Crablezworth


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Am i alone on saying straight up >nope< to the Warmaster?

Just too mutch to model and paint for me, warhounds are my perfect size


It seems rather forced, I really wish they'd show the command terminal so we have some idea what it does.

New AT tactic, having 200$ of disposable income more than your opponent


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 00:03:12


Post by: SamusDrake


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Am i alone on saying straight up >nope< to the Warmaster?

Just too mutch to model and paint for me, warhounds are my perfect size


Amen to that.

While not a bad design, its going to come with a hefty point cost and will take a few books to provide a decent selection of maniples to suit most tastes.

Not knocking the Warmaster but its one I too shall have to pass on.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 00:21:47


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Not only the maniples, but one allso have to make more terrain that is tall enugh to block wep los for that thing.

I have in the past wanted them to make the emperor class since it looked allright in epic: armageddon, but after seeing the warmaster, i dont want an emperor in AT18.(or anything taller then the warlord for that matter)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 02:20:13


Post by: the_scotsman


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Am i alone on saying straight up >nope< to the Warmaster?

Just too mutch to model and paint for me, warhounds are my perfect size


I like Titanicus to play big giant robots.

This big giant robot.


I like.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 10:46:38


Post by: Albertorius


Well, I already said that the Warlord is as big as I feel it can go, practically, for me, so... yeah, not feeling it.

Also, if I wanted a bigger titan I would have preferred an actual Imperator.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 11:59:52


Post by: SamusDrake


Good point on the size of terrain, Frozen Dwarf.

Its a good thing for those who do want to "go large" with Titanicus, and a sign that an Imperator is more likely now.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 13:49:40


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Yes, by adding the warmaster to the range the team has showed us that they can make big models for "small" scale, and suddenly re-creating thouse titanicus clashes that exists in novels and storys are becoming clouser and clouser to a reality for each year that passes, and i am shure some players are looking forward to that.

However my personal issue is this: i want my miniatures to be small! thats why i realy enjoy 15mm and below scale.
Yes dont get me wrong, the scale of AT is small, but the actual 1:1 hobby model we get is getting clouser and clouser to lage and huge 28mm scale models, and THAT i personly dont like.
(i guess the warmaster wont physicly be too far off the size of a 28mm standard GW 40k knight.........)

I am perfectly happy with reavers and warhounds, and that is my style. If someone else will not have anything smaller then a warlord in their collection then that is their style and i have no issues with that.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/25 14:13:47


Post by: Mr_Rose


That’s the beauty of this system (so far); with one egregious and obvious exception you can play pretty much whatever you want and have a good match. There’s even a specialised formation and even Legio for Warhounds-only players.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/26 19:02:31


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Well, with a base cost of 850p, and somewere between 1000-1100p fully kitted, i doubt Warmaster will see any use in matches under 2500p.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/26 19:18:48


Post by: SamusDrake


For 2000 points it could support a four-titan lupercal maniple. If it can support knights then for the same point it could join a minimum and basic questoris lance force with two castigator free blade banners, or a full Porphyrion support banner.

They might not be the most efficient of lists but 2K with the WM is a comfortable possibility.





Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/26 20:03:28


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Thouse options are just wierd and placing all faith on the warmaster as i see it.

But we wont know that for some time.
Allso i wonder why the article spesificly mentioned Auxiliary Titan rule, allmoust as trying to say that would be the only way to use it in the start.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/26 20:31:35


Post by: Mr_Rose


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Thouse options are just wierd and placing all faith on the warmaster as i see it.

But we wont know that for some time.
Allso i wonder why the article spesificly mentioned Auxiliary Titan rule, allmoust as trying to say that would be the only way to use it in the start.

It’s a rule on its Command Terminal. No Warmaster maniples seem likely to be forthcoming with that baked into its stats.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/01/26 22:51:27


Post by: gorgon


I could probably get some play out of 4 WH plus a WM. WHs with VMBs can certainly drop shields, and those destructors can certainly drop the hammer. I've run a pair of Acastus with my Audax to good effect. Obviously some of the particulars would be different in this case, but anytime you have long-range firepower that can just punch out Titans...well, that will synergize well with a lot of things.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/02/19 09:16:29


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Popped open the warbringer for the first time today, and a few points stands out.

1: I like the size of the paper terminal over the original cardboard from the standalone rulebox, anyone know if the download and print terminals on the community size are of the same size or if i have to rezise them to fit the warbringer terminal? (the original cardboard terminals in the standalone rulesbox are unessesary lage for me)

2: Where is the belicosa volcano cannon? not in the kit and not in FW and it dont looks like the wardlords version can be used....


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/02/19 11:08:03


Post by: Mr_Rose


No-one knows about the second weapon option at this time. It is assumed that, like the Warlord and Reaver, there will be a second kit and/or separately available upgrade sprue that contains both the Volcano Cannon and the missing arm options.

Never actually printed any of the downloadable ones so I can’t help with that.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/02/19 13:51:07


Post by: FrozenDwarf


IC, to the bottom of the hobby list it goes then.
I allready have a mori for the warlord, so thought a 3x volcano could be a inntresting backline alpha puncher option.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/02/19 14:24:02


Post by: lord_blackfang


What annoyed me with the Warbringer is that it has Reaver arms but with magnet holes. Why no magnet holes on the Reaver then...

I kinda hope they also invent a plasma arm for the Reaver and stick 2 on a sprue along with both missing carapace options.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/02/19 22:46:22


Post by: SamusDrake


 lord_blackfang wrote:
What annoyed me with the Warbringer is that it has Reaver arms but with magnet holes. Why no magnet holes on the Reaver then...

I kinda hope they also invent a plasma arm for the Reaver and stick 2 on a sprue along with both missing carapace options.


This! Very close to ordering a Warbringer for that one reason.

And yes, such a sprue would be very welcome indeed.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/07 10:41:42


Post by: FrozenDwarf


This loyalist book, has it simply packed all the prev expansion rules + legios into one single book?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/07 15:05:22


Post by: Crablezworth


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
This loyalist book, has it simply packed all the prev expansion rules + legios into one single book?


That and it's apparently changing or expanding on how battlegroups work, and for the first time they're actually going to print weapons stats instead of them being just on the cards. Basically a compendium.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/07 15:24:36


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Good, that means my shelf space will get a tad bigger.

3 books aka core rules, loyalist and traitor compendium sounds like a natural way forward, too many stand alone expansions and easy to get a bit lost right now.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/09 12:44:11


Post by: SamusDrake


Never gave supporting titans and knights much thought beyond just slapping them in as "vanilla" support...

Is it proper to allow supporting titans access to Legio rules? And if so, can those support titans be from a different Legio altogether? For example, have two maniples of Mortis and supporting Audax titans?

Not seeing how this would work for supporting Knights, though, as the only Household rule benefit is with the prescence of a Senechal, and one needs at least a Lance for that.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/09 12:47:36


Post by: lord_blackfang


AFAIK they get Legio rules but if they're a different legio opponent gets +2 CP?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/09 12:53:53


Post by: SamusDrake


Ah, so to play it safe just stick with the same Legio? Cool beans.

Cheers for that.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/09 13:34:30


Post by: FrozenDwarf


 lord_blackfang wrote:
AFAIK they get Legio rules but if they're a different legio opponent gets +2 CP?


Where is this info? not in the official errata atleast, i just looked.
Thats one more posetive thing about the compendiums, updated rules..


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/09 15:51:47


Post by: lord_blackfang


Original rulebook p89 2nd paragraph


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/09 16:59:39


Post by: Sherrypie


Titans can hail from any Legio, but titans within a single maniple can only come from one Legio. Support titans, being alone, can all come from different Legios if you so wish. However, every set of Legio rules your battlegroup uses gives 2 SP to your opponent, so it's usually not worth it to take a whole rainbow of Legios at once.

Knights never use Household rules unless your army is mainly composed of knights. Doom of Molech stipulates that your army is either a Household (with Lances and support titans / knight Banners) or a Titan Legio (with Maniples and support titans / knight Banners). You can never have maniples and lances in the same battlegroup.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 04:56:09


Post by: Crablezworth


 Sherrypie wrote:


Knights never use Household rules unless your army is mainly composed of knights. Doom of Molech stipulates that your army is either a Household (with Lances and support titans / knight Banners) or a Titan Legio (with Maniples and support titans / knight Banners). You can never have maniples and lances in the same battlegroup.


I'm wondering if something about that is changing in the new book, they did mention reworking how battlegroups work, so perhaps they'll households/maniples mix. I always thought it was silly to run knights only force, but also sorta unfortunate that all the knight traits basically go unused when they're in support, so maybe that's changing.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 11:08:00


Post by: lord_blackfang


Neither Ash nor Goonhammer picked up any changes to army construction, and Goonhammer was pretty precise with the (surprisingly numerous) Legio rules changes so they probably dind't just overlook it.

https://www.goonhammer.com/adeptus-titanicus-loyalist-legios-the-goonhammer-review/


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 14:57:11


Post by: Crablezworth


Yeah, the changes sound really good though. Glad everyone can have access to upgrades. I also think they kinda had to change it because in all likelihood corrupted titans won't be as powerful as a psi titan and I assume will function sorta like marks of chaos upgrades, so it makes sense if traitors have a different sorta upgrade path. I'm just happy because I really like the custom legio rules but felt the hate from all the legio players and now they've got no reason to be sour.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 15:07:42


Post by: Mr_Rose


The book refers to corrupted Titans having mutations and, interestingly, multiple mutations, for the Null Emitter upgrade.
I am assuming these work like the upgrades but potentially do more, like adding a tail (w/gun) for example and further that bigger Titans may be able to take more of them.

It also indicates to me that they actually have the traitor Titan rules worked out somewhere. Which, in turn, makes me more hopeful for an imminent traitor legios book, perhaps with the corruption rules…


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 15:36:05


Post by: Crablezworth


 Mr_Rose wrote:
The book refers to corrupted Titans having mutations and, interestingly, multiple mutations, for the Null Emitter upgrade.
I am assuming these work like the upgrades but potentially do more, like adding a tail (w/gun) for example and further that bigger Titans may be able to take more of them.

It also indicates to me that they actually have the traitor Titan rules worked out somewhere. Which, in turn, makes me more hopeful for an imminent traitor legios book, perhaps with the corruption rules…


I like the sound of that, my concern initially was that it'd be too specific to chaos gods like marks almost but I like that this sounds more like each mutation might sorta wink or hint at which chaos god without being explicitly like a korne or nurgle thing.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 16:29:04


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Crablezworth wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
The book refers to corrupted Titans having mutations and, interestingly, multiple mutations, for the Null Emitter upgrade.
I am assuming these work like the upgrades but potentially do more, like adding a tail (w/gun) for example and further that bigger Titans may be able to take more of them.

It also indicates to me that they actually have the traitor Titan rules worked out somewhere. Which, in turn, makes me more hopeful for an imminent traitor legios book, perhaps with the corruption rules…


I like the sound of that, my concern initially was that it'd be too specific to chaos gods like marks almost but I like that this sounds more like each mutation might sorta wink or hint at which chaos god without being explicitly like a korne or nurgle thing.

You’re probably on the money there. The Daemons of the Ruinstorm army list for 30K has multiple “mutations” you can add to the various units and only four of them are restricted to individual sub-allegiances. Of which, you may be interested to note, there are six.
Anyway, yeah, a whole stack of possibilities there.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/10 19:24:30


Post by: Racerguy180


I'm down for anything that adds variety and flavour to Titanicus. At this point in the timeline of the game, mutated & daemonic titans should've appeared. So hopefully the Traitor book gives us some actual nasty warp stuff.

Everyone getting pointed upgrades makes it feel like you can "your dude/ette" God-Engines. Which is a very good thing.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/17 03:06:33


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Crablezworth wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
The book refers to corrupted Titans having mutations and, interestingly, multiple mutations, for the Null Emitter upgrade.
I am assuming these work like the upgrades but potentially do more, like adding a tail (w/gun) for example and further that bigger Titans may be able to take more of them.

It also indicates to me that they actually have the traitor Titan rules worked out somewhere. Which, in turn, makes me more hopeful for an imminent traitor legios book, perhaps with the corruption rules…


I like the sound of that, my concern initially was that it'd be too specific to chaos gods like marks almost but I like that this sounds more like each mutation might sorta wink or hint at which chaos god without being explicitly like a korne or nurgle thing.


I'm expecting Corrupted Titans to work as basically a set of wargear options that opens up. They arent full on daemon titans, but starting to get there. Loyalist book has universal wargear, likely to be reprinted in the chaos book, and then loyalist only options. Traitors could see a few exclusive wargear for normal titans, but then can designate a titan to be corrupted and gain access to a mutations list that you can pick and choose wargear from, possibly with some things limited to titan class or scale.


I would like to see full on daemonic titans, but more than just the 4 god-lords of Epic. It would be cool if they spread the gods out among the various classes- Classic Banelord for Khorne, Subjugator scout as the daemonic variant of the Rapier for Slaanesh, say a bilespewer version of the Warbringer for Nurgle, and a Sorcerer-Reaver psy titan for Tzeentch.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/30 14:44:55


Post by: Zenithfleet


What do youse AT experts think of weapon balance at the moment?

I hear Inferno guns in particular are considered sub-par for the points cost--especially compared to the other much better options on Warhounds like mega-bolters and plasma guns.

Anyway, I had a thought (which doesn't happen often) about a simple way to amp up Inferno guns and make them more worthwhile: How about using a bigger flamer template?

The rules design of the Firestorm-trait weapons in AT was probably constrained by the standardised plastic template that GW has made since 3rd ed 40K. It's a bit small, since it was designed for use against models on 28mm bases rather than the much larger sizes that Titanicus models are on.

However, GW used to make three sizes of flamer template in the mid-90s, back when the templates were cardboard rather than plastic. The biggest one--the heavy flamer--is 3" longer than the current plastic one and half an inch wider at the teardrop end. IIRC the same size of cardboard template was also used in 5th ed Warhammer Fantasy. (It had different artwork and a slightly different design, but was the same size as the 40K heavy flamer.)



Increasing the size of the template in AT would effectively upscale the flamethrower weapons to suit the large base sizes of Titanicus models, making it more likely that you can hit multiple targets at once, as well as adding a bit of extra reach.

You wouldn't need to mess around with points costs, revised rules, custom cards or anything like that. You'd just need one player to dig up an old template from a dusty cupboard so you can both use it instead of the regular one. Besides, fiery artwork looks cooler than blue plastic. (For bonus points, use the reverse side of the WFB template and fry the enemy with green wildfire!)

I don't get to play AT enough to get a good sense of the balance, so I'm just throwing the idea out there in case anyone thinks Inferno guns need a boost and would like to give it a go. I doubt it will make Inferno guns every player's first choice, but it can't hurt.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/30 17:04:34


Post by: Crablezworth


Agreed inferno guns need a boost, a house rule I've been workin on is, allow them to fire at nothing to gain a 25% obscured -1 to be hit in the front arc, but it also affects the warhound. Fluff concept is it fires off a bunch of fuel in an arc in front of itself and light it up, the smoke and heat wash reduce the enemies ability to hit the warhound, but it cuts both ways.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/30 18:26:33


Post by: Racerguy180


Flamers need better representation at the titanic scale. Less flamethrower and more oil well fire×10.
Maybe a continuous conflagration rule where once hit with the weapon every turn it causes d3 wounds to the body or something like that.

But I'd totally agree they need a different template.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/30 19:09:06


Post by: FrozenDwarf


How can exactly normal flames hurt titans????
The heat would have to be at a point where it would melt metal to make any sence, but then why not go for plasma or melta weapons instead......

The flamer simply dont have a home in AT, it is an anti infantry weapon..


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/30 19:39:09


Post by: Crablezworth


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
How can exactly normal flames hurt titans????
The heat would have to be at a point where it would melt metal to make any sence, but then why not go for plasma or melta weapons instead......

The flamer simply dont have a home in AT, it is an anti infantry weapon..


Disagree entirely, the rules don't do them justice but, imagine trying to use any sort of thermal targeting with ur optics bathed in a liquid/jelly that may be able to burn for hours, not to mention if a warhound were to get close and light a whole titan on fire, it would have to disrupt that titans ability to do war and target properly, not to mention, any titan targetting the one on fire is going to see one hell of a show on infrared, aircraft as well as orbital craft as well can easily heat map in IR specturm and see the giant thing on fire. Even aircraft just using direct fire would see big black plumes of smoke coming off them. But even outside of targetting other titans, they'd be great for lighting a bunch of buildings on fire to provide smoke cover for fallback or flanking maneuvers. Not to mention the anti infantry boon to lighting a whole mass of troops on fire even in their trenches. The game just does a really poor job with rules for them, they're a glorified cc weapon.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/04/30 22:20:57


Post by: Sherrypie


Adding a houserule for flamer weapons to set terrain ablaze for obstructing smoke clouds would be rather neat.

I'd mostly go with lowered price, it's okay for the base weapon (which is meant to terrorize small targets) to be less desirable for anti-titan warfare if it's suitably cheap. Currently, not so much. This base can then be improved by specialised focus, like legio and maniple rules, they just need to do it properly hard. Haven't had a chance to field Ignis yet, with added dice it's probably fun yet not entirely enough without some synergistic legio shenanigans as well.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/05/01 09:51:31


Post by: Zenithfleet


Lots of great ideas so far.

Racerguy180 wrote:Flamers need better representation at the titanic scale. Less flamethrower and more oil well fire×10.
Maybe a continuous conflagration rule where once hit with the weapon every turn it causes d3 wounds to the body or something like that.


Hmm, something like the old 2nd ed 40K / Necromunda 'set on fire' rules? Except maybe without the frantic running around and friendly Titans lumbering over to help beat out the flames.

FrozenDwarf wrote:
The flamer simply dont have a home in AT, it is an anti infantry weapon..


There are other anti-infantry weapons in AT that I don't really mind being there--mainly on the Knights, like the Avenger gatling thingamajig. For the same reason, I didn't really mind the ridiculous impractical military-grade heavy weapons like lascannons that you could buy in original Necromunda. They might be poor choices in game terms, but they make the world feel more real. After all, we know there are no Epic infantry in those buildings, but the models showing up to fight don't know that...

I would like to see the Inferno gun more useful against Titans, though, because it's a basic Titan weapon option for one of the Classic Trio.

FrozenDwarf wrote:How can exactly normal flames hurt titans????
The heat would have to be at a point where it would melt metal to make any sence, but then why not go for plasma or melta weapons instead......


What about the effect on the crew? I don't think they'd enjoy being baked inside a superheated metal oven.

Old 40K editions also had rules for flamer weapons ignoring cover because they could find their way through the window slits of bunkers and so on.

So... maybe there's some scope for Inferno guns causing critical damage against crew and vital systems? Cooks Princeps and leaves Titans standing.

EDIT: Ooh, maybe it cooks the servitor clades, permanently reducing a Titan's ability to repair itself (fewer dice?)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/05/01 13:32:40


Post by: habedekrai37


@flamer: I also rarely see, I think he needs some special buff so that he takes on a special role. It causes heat, maybe if there is at least one hit that is not blocked by shields, the plasma reactor of the target should be increased?

@weapon balance in general: with the Warlord you can usually only find the version with apoc + gyroscopes ... think it needs a nerf here. On the other hand, the claw can hardly be seen on the Warlord.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/05/01 14:13:25


Post by: Mr_Rose


I’d say just give it voidbreaker (2) but that would make the volkites even more pointless.

The Warlord Claw needs its gun. Maybe as an option?
A more expensive version of the arm but with slightly less armour to represent the delicate meshing of completely disparate mechanisms.

How about:
Integral Weapon (Type): a Melee weapon with this Trait has an integrated ranged option selected from the Types listed below. Any characteristics and traits that apply to the melee weapon do not apply to the integrated weapon and vice versa though they will have a combined armour, damage, and repair rolls, as listed on their card. The integrated weapon has no short range; this is replaced entirely by the melee weapon it is attached to. When selecting a weapon to use, you may only use either the melee profile or the integral weapon profile, not both. Though you can switch modes at different points in the turn, for example if your Titan is on First Fire Orders, it could select the integral weapon to fire in the movement phase then still use the melee weapon in the combat phase.

Integral Bolter:
Range 2-20" | Accuracy - | Dice 6 | Strength 4 | Rapid

(There might be other options too if one wanted to take full advantage, though build-your-own would be a bad plan)

And the card itself would have the normal Arioch claw profile but be 40 Points, with a 10+ Disabled and 10-13 Detonation and 14+ big detonation damage results and a Repair roll of 3+.

Edit: Done


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/05/01 17:30:22


Post by: FrozenDwarf


It is not that the claw is bad, it is just that a sunfury/mori/belicosa has overall more usage.

And if we are going down that path, aint a double fist reaver a better alternative if you are going to take the punchbot route?? (cheaper, nimbler, faster and in total hitting harder then what a warlord claw could ever hope to do..)
Its kinda like that carpace volcan megabolter for the reaver.... what is its point....?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/05/01 17:34:15


Post by: Crablezworth


CC on something slow like a warlord seems more defensive than offensive, reaver is def the better route.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/05/01 19:02:47


Post by: Sherrypie


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
It is not that the claw is bad, it is just that a sunfury/mori/belicosa has overall more usage.

And if we are going down that path, aint a double fist reaver a better alternative if you are going to take the punchbot route?? (cheaper, nimbler, faster and in total hitting harder then what a warlord claw could ever hope to do..)
Its kinda like that carpace volcan megabolter for the reaver.... what is its point....?


Ehh. With significantly higher strength, the Claw can more reliably punch criticals in and straight up kill a target in one especially when juiced up with adequate legio and maniple rules support. It's not difficult to have a melee Warlord rocketing through the table to the other side in a bullrush that must be accounted for by the enemy. Been there done that, clawlords are terrifying when they don't diddle about kinda shooting kinda moving but instead leg it from the word go. I wouldn't normally field that many of them, unlike with Reavers where it can actually make sense to have multiples, but still.

Also, what? Megabolters are great for Reavers, if theirs' is an aggressive front line role. It's cheap as chips, to begin with. For melee engines, it gives you a lot of accurate targeted shots after punching the holes in with your fists or alternatively as you advance it makes for great shield stripping for your shootier elements in the second wave.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/02 11:22:02


Post by: habedekrai37


Hi,

short question about merging shields after the last errata:

Now, the merging titans and the titan who contributes the shield level have to be determined at the beginning of the opponent's activation. But if save rolls are failed: is it nevertheless still allowed to pick which of the Titans' Void Shield levels is reduced and/or split the failed saves between the titans?

The Errata ends with "(...)The attack is then resolved as normal, using the declared Titan’s Void Shield level to make any Save rolls."

Greetings

Alex


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/02 21:26:26


Post by: Sherrypie


Yes, failed saves are split as you like just as before. The new ruling mainly prevents jumping in and out of merging to screw the opponent's firing order and means that it's clearer which titan takes heat from Voids to Full!


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/04 06:53:03


Post by: habedekrai37


@Sherrypie:

cool, thank you very much; we can play more often again, so there are more questions ... :-) for example:

what is the timing of stratagems or effects that are to be played "at the start of a phase"? Which player must / may decide first and how are they dealt with?

Greetings

Alex


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/04 19:14:25


Post by: Sherrypie


The player with the initiative begins each triggered timing stack, ie. if you have the initiative you have the opportunity to play things first. If you don't, the other guy gets the opportunity.

It's like priority in MtG, if that's familiar to you.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/04 20:35:54


Post by: habedekrai37


thx, yes, I am familiar with MtG :-)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/19 11:15:33


Post by: habedekrai37


Hello everyone, I came across a rule question that I couldn't find an explanation for here:

It's about the stratagem "Outflank" :

It's called "During the second
movement phase the unit can be
activated."

How does it work, do I set up the model at the beginning of the movement phase? but where exactly? Can I also decide to keep the model outside?

also: What do you think of the Stratagem? Given the new missions that require a lot of movement, I don't think it's bad at all ...

greetings
Alex


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/19 14:53:24


Post by: Sherrypie


habedekrai37 wrote:
Hello everyone, I came across a rule question that I couldn't find an explanation for here:

It's about the stratagem "Outflank" :

It's called "During the second
movement phase the unit can be
activated."

How does it work, do I set up the model at the beginning of the movement phase? but where exactly? Can I also decide to keep the model outside?

also: What do you think of the Stratagem? Given the new missions that require a lot of movement, I don't think it's bad at all ...

greetings
Alex


As per the rules text:

When using the stratagem, secretly note which neutral table edge you are coming from. On the first round, tell the opponent which side you chose. On the second round, in the Movement phase, you can choose the unit to be activated just like you'd choose any other unit. When you do, set up the units so their bases' Rear touches the chosen table edge (anywhere on that edge). You cannot move any further that turn.

RAW, units cannot pass turns without activations, which means you must arrive on the second turn. This makes it less of an instant loss for the opponent with Hold the Line and such, so waiting much longer would be somewhat bad form.

It's not bad, but it is very costly. You could do a lot with those SP's, but then the effect can be powerful if you suddenly burst in their flanks.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/19 18:01:30


Post by: Crablezworth


This matched play scenario me and a buddy came up with has outflank built right in as a core mechanic, it's cheaper but a lot more random, no guarantee of turn 2 arrival (3+ roll), when the unit does arrive the edge is randomized on a d6, 1-2 left, 3-4 right, 5 choice of right or left, 6 choice of any board edge. It keeps things very interesting and you see a lot more need to push reactors to turn to address a new threat that's presented itself. It's also very risky, twice now I've had a reaver arrive very late to the party lol

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/787202.page#11135989



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/20 05:17:32


Post by: habedekrai37


Thank you again for the quick response.

We have already implemented Engine War 3.0, thank you very much! Especially the terrain rules are great!

In the pictures I saw that you also use the Mechanicum Knights (Questoris and Cerastus), how are your experiences? Theoretically
I don't have any greater use than the original variants, they just look cooler :-)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/07/20 05:55:55


Post by: Crablezworth


habedekrai37 wrote:
Thank you again for the quick response.

We have already implemented Engine War 3.0, thank you very much! Especially the terrain rules are great!

In the pictures I saw that you also use the Mechanicum Knights (Questoris and Cerastus), how are your experiences? Theoretically
I don't have any greater use than the original variants, they just look cooler :-)


Awesome


The styrix I've only run in one game but they got toasted by a warhound pretty quickly after arriving on the flank. The cerastus knight lancers are pretty good, very fast and hit like a freight train if they can make it into close range but like all knights they often just get gunned down before they can get there. The few times my cerastus have made it into cc range they've done some good damage. The acastus porphyrion is an auto take, best unit in the game.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/04 14:25:12


Post by: habedekrai37


Hi,

the Universal Titan Wargear: Tracking Gyroscopes from the Loyalist Book only applies to Titans of scale 10 or lower. The Legio Specific Wargear from the Ryza book has no such restriction - not even after Errata 1.2

Does that mean that a Warmaster can also get tracking gyroscopes? Is that on purpose?

Greetings

Alex


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/04 14:38:15


Post by: Crablezworth


habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi,

the Universal Titan Wargear: Tracking Gyroscopes from the Loyalist Book only applies to Titans of scale 10 or lower. The Legio Specific Wargear from the Ryza book has no such restriction - not even after Errata 1.2

Does that mean that a Warmaster can also get tracking gyroscopes? Is that on purpose?

Greetings

Alex


Naw I think the warmaster loses out. I think tracking gyroscope was born out of some early mistakes on cards but also a lot of the warlord carapace weapons and the warbringers carapace weapons being able to swivel. The warmaster's carapace is sorta inlaid into he armour.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/04 14:38:37


Post by: Sherrypie


habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi,

the Universal Titan Wargear: Tracking Gyroscopes from the Loyalist Book only applies to Titans of scale 10 or lower. The Legio Specific Wargear from the Ryza book has no such restriction - not even after Errata 1.2

Does that mean that a Warmaster can also get tracking gyroscopes? Is that on purpose?

Greetings

Alex


RAW it can, if you make a Custom Legio like that. It probably isn't on purpose, but I wouldn't personally mind it much like that given you might then have an actual reason to take the Gyros as one of your legio traits (yeah yeah it's a bit cheaper as well, still not a power move on a common wargear).


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/05 20:33:52


Post by: Crablezworth


So speaking of tactics, the traitor book was quite an update.


I don't want to poop on the parade, there truly are some cool and exciting new upgrades and mutations. But man, there are very little in the way of limits.

The issue in a nutshell is the following. One of the later additions to the game that came with the loyalist book was finally we had universal titan upgrades. And even some loyalist only ones too, I feel like overall this was a good thing, it also took the pressure off custom legios a bit.

Traitor book comes out, traitors get their exclusive upgrades, but they also get mutations.

This is sorta where the potential issues start. Loyalists basically get psi titans, traitors get a bunch of very cool and strong upgrades. But there's not a lot of limitations. For starters, like with most upgrades, the trend tends to be less visual or WYSIWYG. The mutations sorta go along those lines, some are more explicit than others in what they might conjure in one's minds eye or whatever they inspire creatively. One would assume something that can spit acid probably should have something modelled that looks like it can spit acid, but other stuff like shield or movement buffs may prove more abstract in concept or just less obvious how one would visually communicate some ability even in the best of faith attempt.

What I'm getting at is, for every cool chaos corrupted titan conversion we may see, we're also likely to also see a bunch of normal looking traitor titans with less than visual special abilities. Now again, I'm not some purist who thinks we all need to model bastion shields, but we are moving further away from a game that's very visual, a lot of these upgrades and mutations aren't really something we can display on the terminal, there aren't any card decks yet with all the upgrades or mutations to at least help in game terms.


A lot of tournaments or matched play didn't fully embrace custom legios and it was understandable. A lot of people sort of suffer their less than ideal legio rules because they committed to a colour scheme and the thought of using custom legio rules may seem heretical. Custom legios too can be very strong, but it's going to be difficult to say not to them and yes to corrupted titans. Custome legios basically offer traits, stratagems and titan upgrades and you pick 4, never more than 2 from any one catagory, That seems almost quaint compared to being able to corrupt entire maniples or battlegroups.

Some mutations are tied to their base mutation but for the most part there's a lot of freedom, there are downsides like losing leadership value (-1.-2 depending and a different awakened chart, but outside of point cost you're pretty free to take a lot of mutations.

The limit in fact doesn't include the base mutation, it's based on titan scale so warmasters can have 5 total if you include base mutation. They can also have titan upgrades in addition to this.

So ya, without some sort of limiting factor events are likely gonna need to set some kind of limits or have modelling requirements like some sort of conversion. Its difficult to sorta get down to tactics if the builds are going to be so crazy. Psi titans are very strong but I still can't help but feel we're going to see a lot of traitor lists and traitor players fielding mutations on pristine titan hulls. I'm not saying it isn't nuanced either, there effectively isn't a tonne of difference between upgrades and mutations, and I certainly don't want to be the upgrade police, but in a game that is largely visual, where i can look down and see terminals and weapons cards and models with WYSIWYG, the upgrades although great certainly are getting further away from the visual side of things.

So it will be interesting to see what tournaments and matched play events do. I don't think there's any one simple solution and obviously people have to take this stuff out for a spin and see how it plays. I don't fault anyone for proxying essentially just to try this all out, especially for content reasons like a video review or an article. But i guess its like one thing to have a "banelord" in a battlegroup of mostly just traitor titans, but im more concerned with like every traitor titan having a bunch of these upgrades in a list with like zero conversion. If we're testing things out to inform the next battlegroup we're gonna build, one that will have conversions and actually daemonic possesed looking titans, cool. If the game will just be dominated by traitor vs traitor because all loyalist have is a psi titan that may or may bot be allowed. And even if it is allowed, as cool and strong as it is it doesn't exactly seem like the best way to fix things or much of a consolation for loyalist players. That's just how it looks for now.

My only constructive thought is maybe well see the mutations be more like 0-1 of each mutation type per battlegroup, Simply on the reality that if you don't limit players, they'll take a lot of good things. I don't think the more narrative or fluff gamers will have issues navigating this but matched play will have to make some sort of call or limit. I feel like we may see some pressure from loyalist players to allow custom legios, even if it only complicates matters, it being available to both sides. Because things really have changed. Access to universal upgrades, traitor upgrades AND mutations is clearly very strong.There are unquestionably good traits and upgrades in the custom legio rules, but you get 2 traits and like 2 unique upgrades max, some of the corrupted titan examples in the goonhammer review of the traitor book have like 5 things added to them when you combine upgrades and mutatons, 2 upgrades and 3 mutations specifically for the warlord example.

Spoiler:

"Toxin Nodes (20)
Mutations:
Base: Unholy Vigour (25)
Pestilence Cloud (15)
Chitinous Carapace (20)
Preternatural Regeneration (50)
Singular Purpose (15)"


And understand each titan in a traitor battlegroup can go the corrupted route, points cost like with most upgrades don't really correlate to scale, some weapon upgrades do thankfully have variable point costs based on other factors. But anyway, like with titan upgrades, you can really pimp ur titans. I feel like he fun police, I do think it's cool that someone could do a whole like nurgle themed force. But my fear is for every cool concept, we're just going to again see a lot of traitor knights with no conversion. It will get harder to say no to custom legios if no other changes or concession are made. We're all excited to see what's possible, but I'm excited and rightfully scared as one should be of giant evil daemonically possessed titans. I just think it has a lot of ramifications for matched play. Good and bad. And some really cool either way.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the traitor book upgrades or mutations?






Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/17 10:11:24


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Yea well, that is the everlasting debate that arrived since marines got chapter spesific rules in 40k 8th.

Freedom vs restriction. Painting and modeling is freedom but should not limit what rules to use, and when faction spesific rules becomes better then generic rules, conflict arises.
My point is, for loyalists, if you are not a blackshield you should not be allowed custom legio rules. I dont know if traitors uses blackshields but if they do, same goes for them.

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


On a side note, look at thouse adorable new armiger, i have to get a blister of them in the future, my warlord is kinda lonely and i was thinking some pets might cheer him up.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/17 12:38:59


Post by: Sherrypie


Custom legios in their current form are no more broken than the named ones. Nor are mutations and upgrades you pay through the nose to get.

This is a game with a handful of models, so pimping them up with bling in exchange for fewer bodies is both cool and a real tactical choice. Meanwhile, paint is not rules and being concerned with that reads to me as rather silly. If memory is a problem, having a written list or some reminder tokens on bases or terminals is an option.

Maneuver still wins games and using mutations severly hampers your reliability in commands. If some standout mutations prove overbearing, nerf them later but let the core system be. If someone wants to get all daemon-infested, that's cool and still entirely counterable.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/17 18:50:05


Post by: Racerguy180


I like the fact the the mutations have some negative effects. Very fluffy. Chaos giveth, Chaos also Taketh Away.

In every game I've played it has really been won/lost in either maneuvering or reactor/machine spirit shenanigans.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/17 21:29:36


Post by: Crablezworth


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Yea well, that is the everlasting debate that arrived since marines got chapter spesific rules in 40k 8th.

Freedom vs restriction. Painting and modeling is freedom but should not limit what rules to use, and when faction spesific rules becomes better then generic rules, conflict arises.
My point is, for loyalists, if you are not a blackshield you should not be allowed custom legio rules. I dont know if traitors uses blackshields but if they do, same goes for them.

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


On a side note, look at thouse adorable new armiger, i have to get a blister of them in the future, my warlord is kinda lonely and i was thinking some pets might cheer him up.



Blackshield is a third faction/allegiance. It's neither loyalist nor traitor but independent, currently just tritonis have rules.

As for mutation being allowed for anyone, they are, that's the thing, any legio can be played loyalist or traitor, and if not modelling requirements are expect, you really can just say "my legio is traitors today".

It's hard to say too what a correct conversion or visual representation would be, you get the vibe that the base mutations are more subtle than the additional ones. I don't even think it nee always be deamonic, like one of the base mutations gives extra dice that only work for venting plasma, so someone could model like a plasma generator on a titan's base and have a cord plugged into it to show it's siphoning off he heat. It's nice when peopel make the effort but hell to enforce without a lotta subjective stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Custom legios in their current form are no more broken than the named ones. Nor are mutations and upgrades you pay through the nose to get.


Yes, but they also stack is the problem. That really does put traitors ahead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:

This is a game with a handful of models, so pimping them up with bling in exchange for fewer bodies is both cool and a real tactical choice.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Meanwhile, paint is not rules and being concerned with that reads to me as rather silly. If memory is a problem, having a written list or some reminder tokens on bases or terminals is an option.









Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sure but people in this particular game do have a rather abiding love for their chosen legios, so it's understandable that custom legios ruffled some feathers. And I get it too, there was and is a very real concern that what went from being sorta locked in (you and your opponents legios and respective special rules) went to something that could change in theory almost game to game, and I get that it can seem daunting that it's sorta just "one more thing" to be concerned about. My one buddy who plays tiger eyes very much enjoys their rules so it would be a bit hard to take if I played a different set of custom legio rules every time.

Memory is a problem for me, but that's also what attracted me to titanicus, it was very visual. If I was in charge I'd be making either card decks for the titan upgrades or little reminders that interact with the terminals. The more counters the better too, especially with all the one use only wargear/traits/stratagems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Racerguy180 wrote:
I like the fact the the mutations have some negative effects. Very fluffy. Chaos giveth, Chaos also Taketh Away.

In every game I've played it has really been won/lost in either maneuvering or reactor/machine spirit shenanigans.



Ya, it's just that a lot of them can be mitigated with maniple rules.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/18 06:24:21


Post by: Toofast


 FrozenDwarf wrote:

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


There's flavor text in the Traitor book to the effect of "these mutations weren't always outwardly visible" to indicate that you don't have to change anything on your model to represent your mutations. That makes sense because I'm not always going to run them, or run the same mutations on the same titans every single game. I would be really upset if some rules lawyer prevented me from using my list because I didn't visually represent a mutation.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/18 18:00:41


Post by: Sherrypie


@Crablezworth:

See, I simply have to disagree with your entire take on the topic of mutations.

Loyalists vs. traitors isn't a hard faction lock like something, say, Space Marines vs. Eldar would be in terms of what people get. The army is the same for all titan legions, just specialized in a different manner depending on what the player wants to go for. The mutations aren't a free +1 bonus that just makes a traitor force stronger than any given loyalist force, but a choice with pros and cons. Of course having the access to a wider range of options is something of an advantage by itself, but there's nothing busted in it as such when the other side is given enough stuff as a baseline as well. There's plenty of little knickknacks and combinations with strats, legios, maniples and upgrades for any loyalist group already to have more possibilities than they as a player are going to get through in many years, so until proven otherwise, I cannot really see the situation being unbearable for anyone.

It's not a situation where some have food and some starve. Both sides have access to everything they need to survive happily, except one side has party drugs on top. Some players don't want them anyway, some are ready to take the associated penalties and go for them. Both are still adequately fed anyway.

Likewise, paint ain't rules and people like your buddy are entirely within their rights to play with any legio rules they desire any given day. Painting your stuff as Fureans doesn't prevent you from ever playing anything else, even less be ever used as a bludgeoning tool to say someone else couldn't switch what they want to try from time to time. As long as it's clear on the tabletop (for example, only use same legio rules for similarly painted models out and so on) what is what, it's game on. If the player wants to only play with their particular rules because they really like the fluff or mechanics behind them, all power to them as well. As for the cognitive dissonance this causes for some people, think of it like this: the legios are large organisations with a varied cast of personnel and machinery, so there's bound to be variation between maniples. Sometimes you have a more level-headed group of veterans in a Fureans group (using Astorum rules) or a hot-headed leader with a taste for melee in a Solaria group (running with Vulpa rules) and so on. All of this is fine, as long as it is communicated clearly. Custom traits, mutations and stratagems can be re-contextualised trivially to allow the players test out ideas and mechanics they find interesting and I encourage that to the fullest.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/18 18:29:56


Post by: Crablezworth


 Toofast wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


There's flavor text in the Traitor book to the effect of "these mutations weren't always outwardly visible" to indicate that you don't have to change anything on your model to represent your mutations. That makes sense because I'm not always going to run them, or run the same mutations on the same titans every single game. I would be really upset if some rules lawyer prevented me from using my list because I didn't visually represent a mutation.



Agreed but systems without limits have problems. I'm not going to tell you I have a solution, but could certainly see the need for one. I think it's fair to not want others to dictate how you play, but this is indeed the problem we're face with, with such an expansive rules set for matched play and very few limitations. But it is a bit rich to show up to a game with custom legio, mutations 2 acastus and a titan of legend and say anyone taking the slightest issue, well, it's on my opponents.

This is the problem gw has with maintaining matched play, they keep expanding the buffet with no limits and are then shocked people walk back to their tables carrying a whole steam tray.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

See, I simply have to disagree with your entire take on the topic of mutations.

Loyalists vs. traitors isn't a hard faction lock like something, say, Space Marines vs. Eldar would be in terms of what people get. The army is the same for all titan legions, just specialized in a different manner depending on what the player wants to go for.


But that's the problem fren, you're literally saying everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. Custom legios + mutations, simply puts traitors ahead of loyalists. I don't think a psi titan that's never in stock is really a balancer there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

The mutations aren't a free +1 bonus that just makes a traitor force stronger than any given loyalist force, but a choice with pros and cons. Of course having the access to a wider range of options is something of an advantage by itself, but there's nothing busted in it as such when the other side is given enough stuff as a baseline as well.


Again, saying everyone is equal, but also traitors get more and that's ok. That's literally an objective imbalance at face value, without even getting into the millions of combinations gw didn't consider either way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

I cannot really see the situation being unbearable for anyone.



I can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

It's not a situation where some have food and some starve. Both sides have access to everything they need to survive happily, except one side has party drugs on top. Some players don't want them anyway, some are ready to take the associated penalties and go for them. Both are still adequately fed anyway.


I disagree, an imbalance is an imbalance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

Painting your stuff as Fureans doesn't prevent you from ever playing anything else, even less be ever used as a bludgeoning tool to say someone else couldn't switch what they want to try from time to time.


It is seen as a limit for him though, something he's not willing to do. This is with me not even simply being ok with him trying custom legios but actively encouraging it. It's also because fureans have fantastic rules.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

As long as it's clear on the tabletop (for example, only use same legio rules for similarly painted models out and so on) what is what, it's game on. If the player wants to only play with their particular rules because they really like the fluff or mechanics behind them, all power to them as well.


Those two things can be in direct conflict, simply put what some players WANT to do can directly come at the cost clarity on the tabletop. I guess we wall want WYSWYG for weapons, we want our opponents to actually own and display the weapons their titans wield. I'd love people to consider the same modularity for upgrades and mutations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

As for the cognitive dissonance this causes for some people, think of it like this: the legios are large organisations with a varied cast of personnel and machinery, so there's bound to be variation between maniples. Sometimes you have a more level-headed group of veterans in a Fureans group (using Astorum rules) or a hot-headed leader with a taste for melee in a Solaria group (running with Vulpa rules) and so on. All of this is fine, as long as it is communicated clearly. Custom traits, mutations and stratagems can be re-contextualised trivially to allow the players test out ideas and mechanics they find interesting and I encourage that to the fullest.


Well it just seems the game is getting too cumbersome and matched play needs some work, we can all hope to "do whatever we want" except for the fact that entails also finding a like minded opponent, something rendered difficult by the popularity of the game in some areas, but also rendered difficult by the imbalances possible by being too permissive. Plenty of the mutations downsides can be mitigated by maniple rules alone. then add custom legio rules.

Anyway, matched play is in trouble and its difficult to have a tactics discussion without a real contained context, hell this game was box check enough with the fact that destructible terrain is an optional rule, let alone the fact that the matched play scenario is terrible and few actually play it, many using the engine war cards instead. There's not even a baseline game, really.

I still remember the marketing tagline for the engine war cards was "no two games ever need be the same again" or something along those lines, and really, that's kinda AT's core problem for me. Matched play really needs to be one thing. No point discussing stuff if everyone's own special little context is being compared like its a baseline of much of anything, my context is no different I guess.






Anyway, if we can find a specific topic we can all speculate on, armigers.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/15/run-rings-around-towering-god-engines-in-adeptus-titanicus-with-these-cute-but-scrappy-knights/

Assuming what's been previewed are two different units and for the sake of it, assuming the banner size is min 3, what are people's thoughts?

I'd say the weapons previewed aren't terrible, I definitely prefer the thermal spear



The lightning lock is ok, at least 14 range when you move 11 inches is something





I think the most interesting consideration tactically is their size opens up their ability to be quite hidden by terrain features that likely would not fully block los to larger knights. So right there without knowing their stats or seeing their terminal opens up some potential. It's likely fair to assume that as with most knights they probably can't take much shooting. I'd also assume the mechanicum ones may have auto simulacra or a better ion save. I'm wondering if the normal armigers meltagun factors in at all, like a re-roll or extra dice or something. Also interesting to see the cc profile for the moirax's claw and the armigers chainsword arm. But ya, the size really is interesting, a 1x1x1 civitas building block can seemingly conceal them entirely.



Hopefully their point cost puts them close to the cost of a couple styrix or less.

If it's possible to take 3 with thermal lance and ccw I'd think it's quite viable to try and dart them from solid los blocking cover to cover. Could also be an interesting objective grabber or backfield objective holder if they're small enough for your opponent to forget about them for a turn or two.





Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/19 09:25:32


Post by: Sherrypie


 Crablezworth wrote:
 Toofast wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


There's flavor text in the Traitor book to the effect of "these mutations weren't always outwardly visible" to indicate that you don't have to change anything on your model to represent your mutations. That makes sense because I'm not always going to run them, or run the same mutations on the same titans every single game. I would be really upset if some rules lawyer prevented me from using my list because I didn't visually represent a mutation.



Agreed but systems without limits have problems. I'm not going to tell you I have a solution, but could certainly see the need for one. I think it's fair to not want others to dictate how you play, but this is indeed the problem we're face with, with such an expansive rules set for matched play and very few limitations. But it is a bit rich to show up to a game with custom legio, mutations 2 acastus and a titan of legend and say anyone taking the slightest issue, well, it's on my opponents.

This is the problem gw has with maintaining matched play, they keep expanding the buffet with no limits and are then shocked people walk back to their tables carrying a whole steam tray.


Again, beyond the Acastoi being too cheap, exactly what is wrong with such a setup? It isn't any more powerful than a properly thought named legio force that can do strong rules just as well (like Astorum or Fureans, for example). Most titans of legend aren't much to write home about either.

Sorry Crablez, while I appreciate your concerns and activity in talking about them, a lot of this simply reads as unwillingness to let others enjoy their take on the game.


 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

See, I simply have to disagree with your entire take on the topic of mutations.

Loyalists vs. traitors isn't a hard faction lock like something, say, Space Marines vs. Eldar would be in terms of what people get. The army is the same for all titan legions, just specialized in a different manner depending on what the player wants to go for.


But that's the problem fren, you're literally saying everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. Custom legios + mutations, simply puts traitors ahead of loyalists. I don't think a psi titan that's never in stock is really a balancer there.


No, it just differentiates the army composition a bit. Unless it turns out that upgrading your stuff with mutations is always beneficial in comparison to just taking more bodies and wargear (which I highly doubt), it doesn't make the Loyalist side mystically unplayable. If you look at most games in existence that allow for army building, they tend to have options for going with more bodies or more elite forces. Playing a heavily mutated force of less models is that elite army comp, which by itself is merely different and while individually made of stronger stuff, it doesn't necessarily do as well in various scenarios and mission parametres. Let me come back to that in a bit.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

The mutations aren't a free +1 bonus that just makes a traitor force stronger than any given loyalist force, but a choice with pros and cons. Of course having the access to a wider range of options is something of an advantage by itself, but there's nothing busted in it as such when the other side is given enough stuff as a baseline as well.


Again, saying everyone is equal, but also traitors get more and that's ok. That's literally an objective imbalance at face value, without even getting into the millions of combinations gw didn't consider either way.


No, the Traitors get different things. Traitors having mutations and chaos powers is pretty much a given in a Warhammer game, that's like one of the core tenets of the universe. Loyalists are the baseline, Chaos infused loonies are a variation on that theme which is done by giving something and taking something, in this case altering the very core of how their command and machine behaviour dynamics work. Unless you really want there to be no traitor / loyalist difference in any way, that is a legit distinction between the forces given how damn important reliability is in this game.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

It's not a situation where some have food and some starve. Both sides have access to everything they need to survive happily, except one side has party drugs on top. Some players don't want them anyway, some are ready to take the associated penalties and go for them. Both are still adequately fed anyway.


I disagree, an imbalance is an imbalance.


Again, unless you want there to be no distinction at all, then there is an inevitable imbalance of sorts at any moment. Thus far only loyalists have had access to Psi-Titans and Vortex Missiles and the sky hasn't fallen nor has everyone only ever played Loyalists. It's not falling when Traitors gain access to mutations, either. To reiterate: the baseline of the armies is good enough that even a group without any legio rules can play the game, much less without any mutation shenanigans. Unless we experimentally see through extensive gameplay that the mutations get oppressive as hell, I'll have to disagree with your concerns on this.


 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

Painting your stuff as Fureans doesn't prevent you from ever playing anything else, even less be ever used as a bludgeoning tool to say someone else couldn't switch what they want to try from time to time.


It is seen as a limit for him though, something he's not willing to do. This is with me not even simply being ok with him trying custom legios but actively encouraging it. It's also because fureans have fantastic rules.



So? That's up to them and a self-imposed limit they are running with and not a systemic problem. If they only want to run one set of rules and are happy with those, they still don't get a moral right to dictate others shouldn't be able to tinker with the system's more extensive offerings. Isn't the access to various mutations without extensive conversion work required in this instance just a bonus for their experience, as well, since they get to try out more combinations if they'd like to without stepping outside their chosen legio4lyfe?


 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

As long as it's clear on the tabletop (for example, only use same legio rules for similarly painted models out and so on) what is what, it's game on. If the player wants to only play with their particular rules because they really like the fluff or mechanics behind them, all power to them as well.


Those two things can be in direct conflict, simply put what some players WANT to do can directly come at the cost clarity on the tabletop. I guess we wall want WYSWYG for weapons, we want our opponents to actually own and display the weapons their titans wield. I'd love people to consider the same modularity for upgrades and mutations.


Which will probably come with time, after people get a read on the possibilities and get inspired to create their own stuff. On the practical side, though, I personally won't get too flustered about anyone running a pile of under-the-hood upgrades which is the norm for most miniature games anyway. As has been discussed with many less macro-level upgrades, it is unreasonable to demand physical representation on every little thing like Bastion Shielding or Frozen Soul, while it's cool for people to do so.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:
@Crablezworth:

As for the cognitive dissonance this causes for some people, think of it like this: the legios are large organisations with a varied cast of personnel and machinery, so there's bound to be variation between maniples. Sometimes you have a more level-headed group of veterans in a Fureans group (using Astorum rules) or a hot-headed leader with a taste for melee in a Solaria group (running with Vulpa rules) and so on. All of this is fine, as long as it is communicated clearly. Custom traits, mutations and stratagems can be re-contextualised trivially to allow the players test out ideas and mechanics they find interesting and I encourage that to the fullest.


Well it just seems the game is getting too cumbersome and matched play needs some work, we can all hope to "do whatever we want" except for the fact that entails also finding a like minded opponent, something rendered difficult by the popularity of the game in some areas, but also rendered difficult by the imbalances possible by being too permissive. Plenty of the mutations downsides can be mitigated by maniple rules alone. then add custom legio rules.

Anyway, matched play is in trouble and its difficult to have a tactics discussion without a real contained context, hell this game was box check enough with the fact that destructible terrain is an optional rule, let alone the fact that the matched play scenario is terrible and few actually play it, many using the engine war cards instead. There's not even a baseline game, really.

I still remember the marketing tagline for the engine war cards was "no two games ever need be the same again" or something along those lines, and really, that's kinda AT's core problem for me. Matched play really needs to be one thing. No point discussing stuff if everyone's own special little context is being compared like its a baseline of much of anything, my context is no different I guess.


Correction: you feel that the matched scenario is terrible. This is not a factual statement, but biased by your desire to have mirrored objectives instead of inbuilt asymmetry, while many players myself included absolutely want asymmetry in games (as a quick aside, the only basic problem in the default Matched scenario is the scaling in Engage and Destroy which should be just tied to 0-20 VP's in accordance with the percentage destroyed like the other objectives have). In my eyes, this is a strength for the system as it forces the players to actually own their enjoyment instead of degenerating to the lowest common settings to the exclusion of other possibilities, like you so often see in bigger games like 40k.

I reject the notion that you couldn't have relevant tactical discussions in this environment. Hell, I'd even go as far as to say it's exactly the other way round. When you confine matched play into something well-defined, cut and dry, you lose a good portion of the interesting tactical debate to be had by forcing the situation towards a more well-trodden path of pre-game planning (see any 40k sub-forum, where it's mostly about lists and math hammer because the individual mission setups are known factors). There is an intellectual challenge to be cracked there as well, certainly, but it's more on the strategic level than going for the tactical "what-ifs" that are in more abundant supply in a system that throws actually varied games in front of you. "Okay, I brought a heavy engine list but the mission demands advancing while the enemy is attempting a breakthrough. How do I deal with this?" is far, far more interesting of a puzzle to me in the real sense of tactics than optimizing for a known quantity. One can then debate the merits of list composition in regards to possible scenarios they might encounter, moves to take on the field to counter alleged optimal moves by the enemy on particular objectives and so on. I welcome this debate on actual tactics as encountered by the field commanders, which less than surprisingly is also what military academies do.

As to the maniples mitigating the mutation drawbacks... well, yeah? That's another choice that will in turn restrict their effectiveness to some game plan instead of another power-up. No Ferrox or Extermigus for you, if you want to use that slot on coping with your penalties. The Command oriented maniples aren't usually too flexible on what they give you and even Axiom's power still does nothing for the minus incurred.

If it turns out that the mutations completely wreck the game, I will of course change my mind on this and ask for restrictions on them. As it stands, I simply cannot see that happening. Pimping your engines with costly upgrades isn't a winning strategy in most cases, nor is hampering their reliability, so I highly doubt we'll have any big troubles at hand here.






Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/23 21:06:19


Post by: habedekrai37


Hi, I have another rule question :-)

What do you think, is it possible to combine the following Stratagems from Defense of Ryza?

Power reserves
Reactor surge

My first impulse was: no, because a reactor roll seems to be necessary for the Reactor Surge. But with power reserves, the result "counts as a blank", so I'm not sure.

What do you all mean?

Many greetings

Alex


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/24 12:35:39


Post by: Sherrypie


habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi, I have another rule question :-)

What do you think, is it possible to combine the following Stratagems from Defense of Ryza?

Power reserves
Reactor surge

My first impulse was: no, because a reactor roll seems to be necessary for the Reactor Surge. But with power reserves, the result "counts as a blank", so I'm not sure.

What do you all mean?

Many greetings

Alex


They do not combine, since they do not interact in any way nor are they used at the same time in the first place.

Power Reserves can be used whenever you are Pushing. So when you want more movement, turns, shield rerolls, weapons that Drain etc. In such a case you can just use it to say "I got a blank" instead of rolling.

Reactor Surge is used instead of your normal Combat phase activation and doesn't have any Pushing involved. You simply choose how many pips you want to advance your reactor track and repair as many pips on the shield track. No dice rolling is involved if rules simply instruct you to advance the reactor tracker or increase your heat in some other wording. Only Pushing or explicit command to roll the Reactor die involve rolling.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/24 15:48:20


Post by: habedekrai37


 Sherrypie wrote:
habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi, I have another rule question :-)

What do you think, is it possible to combine the following Stratagems from Defense of Ryza?

Power reserves
Reactor surge

My first impulse was: no, because a reactor roll seems to be necessary for the Reactor Surge. But with power reserves, the result "counts as a blank", so I'm not sure.

What do you all mean?

Many greetings

Alex


They do not combine, since they do not interact in any way nor are they used at the same time in the first place.

Power Reserves can be used whenever you are Pushing. So when you want more movement, turns, shield rerolls, weapons that Drain etc. In such a case you can just use it to say "I got a blank" instead of rolling.

Reactor Surge is used instead of your normal Combat phase activation and doesn't have any Pushing involved. You simply choose how many pips you want to advance your reactor track and repair as many pips on the shield track. No dice rolling is involved if rules simply instruct you to advance the reactor tracker or increase your heat in some other wording. Only Pushing or explicit command to roll the Reactor die involve rolling.



I'm sorry, but we're talking about two different stratagems:

"Reactor Surge (1)

Play this Stratagem when a friendly Titan from this Crusade Legio pushes their reactor, before rolling the Reactor dice. For the remainder of the phase, (...)"

there is nothing about the combat phase or shields



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/24 17:32:40


Post by: Sherrypie


habedekrai37 wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi, I have another rule question :-)

What do you think, is it possible to combine the following Stratagems from Defense of Ryza?

Power reserves
Reactor surge

My first impulse was: no, because a reactor roll seems to be necessary for the Reactor Surge. But with power reserves, the result "counts as a blank", so I'm not sure.

What do you all mean?

Many greetings

Alex


They do not combine, since they do not interact in any way nor are they used at the same time in the first place.

Power Reserves can be used whenever you are Pushing. So when you want more movement, turns, shield rerolls, weapons that Drain etc. In such a case you can just use it to say "I got a blank" instead of rolling.

Reactor Surge is used instead of your normal Combat phase activation and doesn't have any Pushing involved. You simply choose how many pips you want to advance your reactor track and repair as many pips on the shield track. No dice rolling is involved if rules simply instruct you to advance the reactor tracker or increase your heat in some other wording. Only Pushing or explicit command to roll the Reactor die involve rolling.



I'm sorry, but we're talking about two different stratagems:

"Reactor Surge (1)

Play this Stratagem when a friendly Titan from this Crusade Legio pushes their reactor, before rolling the Reactor dice. For the remainder of the phase, (...)"

there is nothing about the combat phase or shields



Ah bloody hell, the book does indeed have two strats named Reactor Surge (one on page 97 for custom legios and one on 107 for everyone, doing completely different things)

So, with the custom strats it should work. You're spending half of your legio slots on that one turn trick, albeit a good trick that gives you plenty of reliability that time.
Mechanically it's not forbidden to play stratagems interleaved if their triggers align, so:

1) Decide to push.
2) Before rolling, as triggered, play Reactor Surge and Power Reserves.
3) Instead of rolling, use Power Reserves to substitute a blank instead.
4) Profit.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2021/11/24 20:43:23


Post by: habedekrai37


oh how crazy, how stupid. I wouldn't have thought of that either ...

Thank you again, yes, I don't think the trick is OP either, but certainly not bad in the right situation.

The background is: I want to assemble a legion for a combat group, with Reavers and Warhounds, no Warlords. Focus: 2 Melee-Reaver.

Or do you have any other tips on which traits and / or stratagems from Ryza you could take?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/16 06:10:37


Post by: habedekrai37


Hi gyus,

I m looking for some tactical advice... I'm currently playing Loyalists (Praesagius), my Legion is focused on Warlords and Warhounds.

For my Traitor Legion, I'd like to focus on Reavers, but with them I don't have any experience.

The goal is 1500 points. The basis should be two melee reavers, I've considered Laniaskara as legion and Corsair as Manipel. How would you go on? An additional Reaver is clear, but how to equip? And how to expand? A fourth Reaver would be possible and maybe borrow Knights, or a supporting Warlord...

Regards

Alex


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/16 16:25:31


Post by: SamusDrake


For 1,500 points I'd go for a Corsair-trio of Reavers and a supporting Warbringer. Then spend the rest of the points on wargear.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/16 18:24:08


Post by: Crablezworth


For the cc reavers, usually best to do 1 cc weapon instead of 2, reason being that you only get to use both cc weapons in the combat phase, when you do a charge order in the movement phase you're capped at one of the two cc weapons. Also, first is interesting but can lead to losing control of the situation like knocking your target away from you limiting your ability to double down and put the killing blows on them in the combat phase, there's also a chance if youre target is a larger titan like reaver and up, their oval base might rotate and smack into yours from a powerfist hit so thy can be a bit unwieldly at times. Chainfist is generally better in so much as you can guarantee to at least not have weird physical outcomes like your opponent's titan getting knocked out of cc range or worse sending it spinning into your titan.

Good close up loud out chainfist, melta and vmb up top. Long to mid range is tougher, the volcano cannons have great range but can be a bit underwhelming sometimes but tend to do well when they double hit. Missiles are great long range just like on warlord. Laser blaster is decent, turbo laser up top too is cool, you can do all laser if you want a tonne of S8. Gatling blaster is decent and pairs well with melta on the othe arm. Warp missile is interesting with mutations.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/17 06:35:36


Post by: habedekrai37



Thank you very much, of course there are other aspects, great! I've also thought about more activation points (Titan Hunter- Stratagem, Knights) to safely get into melee combat and make it hard for the enemy to run away... What do you think?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/17 14:41:44


Post by: Crablezworth


habedekrai37 wrote:

Thank you very much, of course there are other aspects, great! I've also thought about more activation points (Titan Hunter- Stratagem, Knights) to safely get into melee combat and make it hard for the enemy to run away... What do you think?


Combat is tough, but very strong. The problem is it will always have more hurdles to overcome than shooting, and it because of the proximity, even if you do well in close combat, sometime your opponent's titan goes nuclear. Where as if you're killing engines at range it less likely a risk the further away you are when they go boom. If you're sold on making combat work, there are some mutations that can help.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 13:13:19


Post by: habedekrai37



Yes, it's risky, that's true, but it can also be funny the other way around: Recently, a melee reaver ran into my Regia bubble... he didn't destroy anything himself, but took a WL and 2 WH with him to his death...


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 13:53:16


Post by: Sherrypie


Laniaskara is very fun, I've enjoyed their aggressive nature a fair bit on the field.

If you're not dead set against using Warhounds, I'd go for a Ferrox maniple with two melee Reavers flanked by shooty Warhounds. Laniaskara's free push can get some of the Hounds reliably up the field to prep the scene for the Reaver charges and mop up damaged engines in a flanking manoeuvre. With Ferrox's +1 to Armour Rolls, you can reliably use chainfists and danger-close Hounds to strike hard while dodging under the opposition's big guns.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 17:10:12


Post by: Mr_Rose


Be interesting to see what happens when you swap a Ferox war hound for a Dire Wolf.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 17:41:47


Post by: Crablezworth


 Mr_Rose wrote:
Be interesting to see what happens when you swap a Ferox war hound for a Dire Wolf.


Sounds fun.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 18:38:56


Post by: Sherrypie


For the most part, not much I'd wager. They are best used from reasonably afar to support shooty forces with opportunistic shield collapses and synergize with none of Ferrox's strengths. Venator maniples are a much juicier opportunity, along many others.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 19:00:03


Post by: Crablezworth


 Sherrypie wrote:
For the most part, not much I'd wager. They are best used from reasonably afar to support shooty forces with opportunistic shield collapses and synergize with none of Ferrox's strengths. Venator maniples are a much juicier opportunity, along many others.


I dunno that +1 for both primary weapons within 30 makes me think they're best used within 30 and hopefully on the flanks of their target either way.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 19:58:53


Post by: Sherrypie


 Crablezworth wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
For the most part, not much I'd wager. They are best used from reasonably afar to support shooty forces with opportunistic shield collapses and synergize with none of Ferrox's strengths. Venator maniples are a much juicier opportunity, along many others.


I dunno that +1 for both primary weapons within 30 makes me think they're best used within 30 and hopefully on the flanks of their target either way.


Within 30" describes pretty much every Warhound imaginable, as well as being most of the usual tables' length. With Ferrox we're talking about routinely dancing within 10" of the enemy, where the Dire Wolf would just be a juicy pinjata instead of a lurking hunter that it ought to be. If the Wolf is further than that, it's not worth it to swap it in the maniple to gain bonuses it's not going to use. In a very small game, sure why not, but it's not any great synergy to do so.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 20:08:40


Post by: gorgon


The question is not what the Ferrox does for the Dire Wolf, but what it does for the Warhounds.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 20:30:56


Post by: Crablezworth


 gorgon wrote:
The question is not what the Ferrox does for the Dire Wolf, but what it does for the Warhounds.


Ya I mean you may as well take it in the place of the optional third hound rather than aux simply because a bonus rule it may not make use of is better than nothing.


I quite like how they came up with how they fit into maniples while also being aux without having to write any new maniples. Genuinely impressed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
For the most part, not much I'd wager. They are best used from reasonably afar to support shooty forces with opportunistic shield collapses and synergize with none of Ferrox's strengths. Venator maniples are a much juicier opportunity, along many others.


I dunno that +1 for both primary weapons within 30 makes me think they're best used within 30 and hopefully on the flanks of their target either way.


Within 30" describes pretty much every Warhound imaginable, as well as being most of the usual tables' length. With Ferrox we're talking about routinely dancing within 10" of the enemy, where the Dire Wolf would just be a juicy pinjata instead of a lurking hunter that it ought to be. If the Wolf is further than that, it's not worth it to swap it in the maniple to gain bonuses it's not going to use. In a very small game, sure why not, but it's not any great synergy to do so.


I feel like it's more just like if you're used to running ferrox and just finished a dire wolf it's worth it in the third hound slot over aux. Also imagine someone who has moslty the starter box, that's a good foundation for ferrox (2 hounds, 2 reavers) so if someone just added a dire wolf it fits pretty well. There's def other maniples for it for sure.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/18 21:31:47


Post by: Sherrypie


 gorgon wrote:
The question is not what the Ferrox does for the Dire Wolf, but what it does for the Warhounds.


Ferrox is great for Warhounds, one of the best if you're willing to take it risky and run close to the enemy. My Ferrox Hounds regularly eat Warlords alive, given how hard and accurately they can hit combined with their relatively healthy activation economy as well. Never underestimate a well-timed Warhound charge either, with potential d3+4 attacks that hit on 3+ at Str 7(+1 Fer and often +1/+2 flanking).


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/19 14:24:28


Post by: gorgon


Ferrox getting unlocked for Audax players via the Dire Wolf is definitely a significant thing. Especially when the DW comes with the Stalker rule, no Canis maniple or Outflank required.

I'm looking at a Lupercal maniple paired with a Ferrox. That combo lacks the feth with your mind deployment qualities of the Canis, but the DW can still set up outside the deployment zone at interesting angles. With reinforced plating and some cover, it won't be a total pushover there. And I can still outflank a WH on top of that if I want another distraction.

What's gained is extra punch in close. Audax kinda has to operate in those close-ish ranges anyway. The Ember Wolves don't win by trading shots with bigger Titans at 20". They have to close and pounce.

Will have to give it a try, but the DW definitely feels like a solid bone being thrown to Audax beyond the Titan's own attributes.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/19 16:10:58


Post by: Sherrypie


True, Audax are in a somewhat special place with it in that they can thus lighten up some previously forbidden maniples. Good catch.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/19 18:35:11


Post by: gorgon


At first I started looking at it in terms of what I could do to maximize the DW. Put it in a Lupercal, do coordinated strikes, and that plus maybe side shot bonuses make the neutron laser scarier. While that's legitimate, I quickly came around to looking at the DW as the maximizer for my other stuff. At least for Audax.

I'll give it a go, anyway. Hopefully my DWs ship tomorrow, but my last FW purchase (Psi-Titan) took a few weeks to ship.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/24 11:20:15


Post by: FrozenDwarf


Prolly has been posted in the news section, but dont hurt to have it in here either; the new FAQ

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/x1kCws4HqSQwI9YH.pdf

allso, today was released a new scenario: The Siege of Kado
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/ML74FAvcQvVjJLTj.pdf


This should keep us entertained for the summer


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/05/24 17:53:15


Post by: locarno24


Okay, it's only a special scenario, not an army list, but.....

....pure ordo sinister force!
(Squeebles)


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/12/27 22:26:09


Post by: habedekrai37


Hi fellow princeps, a rules question and a tact question:

1. The stratagem "Warp Displacement" is played "In any phase"... Can it really be played at any time? So e.g. in the Movement phase, after an charging enemy Titan has moved, but before it attacks as part of its charge-order?

2. The Loyalists especially have Wargear, a psi titan, and the mutations of the corrupted titans make the command value worse... Nevertheless, I see the traitors as having a slight advantage in balancing, what do you think?

greetings


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/12/28 03:26:46


Post by: Crablezworth


habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi fellow princeps, a rules question and a tact question:

1. The stratagem "Warp Displacement" is played "In any phase"... Can it really be played at any time? So e.g. in the Movement phase, after an charging enemy Titan has moved, but before it attacks as part of its charge-order?

2. The Loyalists especially have Wargear, a psi titan, and the mutations of the corrupted titans make the command value worse... Nevertheless, I see the traitors as having a slight advantage in balancing, what do you think?

greetings


1. It doesn't interrupt other's activations

2. Correct, having a disadvantage for command isn't much of a disadvantage if the corruption/mutation enables the titan to say auto pass command for charge orde, psi titans are very strong but it's not a great balance between the two, it gets even sillier when you consider custom traitor legions with corruptions/mutations.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/12/28 09:27:57


Post by: habedekrai37


1. It doesn't interrupt other's activations

sounds plausible, thank you!

2. Correct, having a disadvantage for command isn't much of a disadvantage if the corruption/mutation enables the titan to say auto pass command for charge orde, psi titans are very strong but it's not a great balance between the two, it gets even sillier when you consider custom traitor legions with corruptions/mutations.

I agree with the assessment, but more because of the possible combinations. From my point of view, what you describe is a circular argument: the mutations only make the command value worse. The advantage you describe is partly only necessary due to the mutation (formulated somewhat pointedly).And Orders like emergency repair or full stride become less reliable. also: there is only the base mutation "Overwhelming Rage", according to which a charge order does not require a command check. And then you can choose neither Preternatural Grace nor frozen soul.

In my opinion, the penalty to the command value should not be underestimated. Commanding a Warhound with two or more mutations will hardly be reliably possible, and the number of orders that get through will be reduced, since the probability of failing a test is higher. In my opinion, traitors also force you to do melee combat, which I also think is more demanding and dangerous than long-range combat.

So again: I also see the traitors a little at an advantage, but only a little.

@Loyalist players: I've been playing traitors since the alliance rules existed, so I don't have an overview: are there any dirty combinations for loyalists? For example with the Hunter shells?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/12/29 06:59:16


Post by: Crablezworth


Yeah but you only need corrupt to the extent you want for the desired purpose, the close combat example with a cc reaver, doesn't really need any more mutations if it can guarantee getting a charge off.

Also understand the mutations/corruptions don't just exist in a vacuum, when combined with say custom legio rules, which have traits that also auto pass or give leadership buff for certain orders like -2 to full stride or in the case of vanguard fighters trait, automatic first fire or full stride. Also custom legio has some pretty nasty wargear too. Granted custom legios is available to both sides.

There are also maniple abilities/traits that can help mitigate command issues like axiom.

Traitors are at a larger advantage overall because most don't even see the need to model the corruptions/mutations so you really can just take only what you want and nothing more. There's plenty of room for thematic stuff and cool models but like nothing is forcing traitor players in terms of rules to invest a lot in the corruptions/mutations. One can often just take the obvious ones like frozen soul or auto pass charge one, it can also get a bit silly how many you can give to larger titans in high point games.

The loyalists aren't helpless, the psi titan is quite powerful and performs really well, but it's just not a great balance between the two factions, one having a sort of broken expensive big titan with beam and powers, the other having a lot of cool upgrades that may or may not have to be modelled depending on if your opponents care about he modelling side of things. Also if we ever see rules for the corrupted knights, it will be one more thing traitors have that loyalists don't assuming they get some upgrades in the form of corruption/mutations that work in a similar way. I kinda feel like it'd be nice for loyaylist to also get some more upgrades/wargear, perhaps not as robust as the corruption/mutations but even a collection of like 0-1 relics would help a bit.

One added complication is it's easy to just say your legio is traitor for the purposes of matched play/tournament, if 2/3 or 3/4 of players are conveniently playing as traitors to use mutations/corruptions it may be indicative of them just being better overall for list building than a psi titan.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/12/30 06:38:39


Post by: habedekrai37


Definitely, I hope GW releases some more for AT before actually re-launching Epic. I don't even think the loyalist wargear is bad (Vortex Pay-load, Plasmatic Blinders, Hunter Shells) but more would not be cool.

@Psi-Titans: Interesting, I haven't seen the Warlord Sinister in action yet, but I also think that it's too expensive for small games, especially because of the auxiliary rule. The note in the Loyalist book: "Each Psi-Titan has access to Psychic Powers, the nature of each is dependent on the Titan's class and is described in detail in its relevant supplement." Let's hope that other Psi -Titans are coming.

@corrupted Knights: wow, that sounds exciting, but I haven't heard anything about that!

@Custom legios: ok, they're not allowed in my group, there's probably too much nonsense possible


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2022/12/30 17:57:20


Post by: Crablezworth


habedekrai37 wrote:
Definitely, I hope GW releases some more for AT before actually re-launching Epic. I don't even think the loyalist wargear is bad (Vortex Pay-load, Plasmatic Blinders, Hunter Shells) but more would not be cool.

@Psi-Titans: Interesting, I haven't seen the Warlord Sinister in action yet, but I also think that it's too expensive for small games, especially because of the auxiliary rule. The note in the Loyalist book: "Each Psi-Titan has access to Psychic Powers, the nature of each is dependent on the Titan's class and is described in detail in its relevant supplement." Let's hope that other Psi -Titans are coming.

@corrupted Knights: wow, that sounds exciting, but I haven't heard anything about that!

@Custom legios: ok, they're not allowed in my group, there's probably too much nonsense possible



The psychic powers replace orders but they're very very good. As cool as it would be to get more psi models, for the game I don't think it would help much. If something changes that forces traitors to invest more in corruptions/mutations it might make sense, but even then, you've got units vs upgrades, the latter is always sorta better in terms of introducing options and replicability, a psi reaver or hound might be cool but seems more niche.


They've mentioned corrupted knights in a few books, my hope is they also give some love to normal knights, right now its tough to invest too many points in them, especially because unlike titans you can't really upgrade their resilience at all. Also might be a chance to fix the acastus.

Custom legios aren't too bad, its a system where you have traits, custom stratagems and custom wargear/upgrades. You get 4 picks but max 2 from any catagory, it is common to see 2 traits/2 custom upgrades but apart from a few contentious options it's still a decently simple system that's actually good for counts as stuff like orks or eldar. I do think it goes to far to do both custom legio and corruptions/mutations but one or the other is fine IMO.



Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2023/02/21 22:09:53


Post by: habedekrai37


Hi,

a rules and a tactics question, dear Priniceps:

1. Can you combine Ursus Claws with the "Experimental Weapon" stratagem and give the claw "Maximum fire"?

2. Is there a way to increase the power of the Direwolf's neutron laser?


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2023/02/22 00:12:25


Post by: Crablezworth


habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi,

a rules and a tactics question, dear Priniceps:

1. Can you combine Ursus Claws with the "Experimental Weapon" stratagem and give the claw "Maximum fire"?

2. Is there a way to increase the power of the Direwolf's neutron laser?



1 Not sure, strats are a bit weird, that one specifically existed before universal titan upgrades, so it also has all the language of when you have to apply/designate it.

2 If you put it in a maniple and put a princeps seniores in it, you can give it a trait that would allow it a single re-roll to hit or save per round, can make a big difference when you'e only got a one shot weapon.


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2023/02/22 08:58:55


Post by: Sherrypie


There is no mechanical reason why the Claws would not interact with Maximal Fire. MF gives you +2 Str on the weapon and Impale rule tells you to roll a d6 + the weapon's Str. So yeah, feel free to paint a target on that poor Hound and try to down someone with their awesome experimental turbo-claws before you get shot to bits


Adeptus Titanicus; General, Tactics and Rules discussion thread. @ 2023/02/22 22:07:04


Post by: habedekrai37


many thanks for the feedback!

@Sherrypie:

haha maybe in a canis maniple? We mostly play quite small games with a lot of view-blocking terrain, so it might be difficult for the enemy to focus the fire on the target warhound?!