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T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/22 16:43:19


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


I had been asking a lot 9th edition questions in the 8th edition thread, so I figured that meant it was as good a time as any to get a new thread started for 9th.

To carry on what I had been asking in there...

How are people feeling about our troops in this edition? Are Strike Teams still good enough to move around on foot shooting 30 or 36 inches(with drones), or will Breachers in Devilfish be the best option this time? What about Kroot? Do they have a place in this edition where holding objectives is extremely important?

Plus, what can we do to screen our troops or otherwise protect them once they do get on an objective? Would protecting them with drones be worth the points investment?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/22 21:29:35


Post by: Azuza001


I am going to explain my feelings about this at the moment.

I am finding the 3rd edition / 4th edition tactic known as devil fish of fury to be quite effective so far this edition. I equip the devilfish with gundrones and stick 1 or 2 squads of 5 man breacher teams in it.

The idea is quite simple. You run the devilfish up the field and onto an objective, preferably on the side closest to your opponents lines. If your opponent shoots the fish then you have 2 breacher squads getting out that have obspec and 2 drones. With proper placement you can have the drones stand in between your troops and the opponents forces to act as a barrier from getting charged. If the fish doesn't die then next turn your guys get out, leave the drones on the fish, and move the fish up to charge any infantry / vehicles that are near them to buy your breachers time.

You can also do squad of breachers and a squad of strike team. That way the breachers work again as a buffer to just buy the stike team time to score objective points.

I also run phirannas with fusion blasters and gundrones to work with the fish. Most people will shoot the phirannas first because they have quite a high threat range and the blaster can do serious dmg. And it does the same job of the drones giving more buffer units.

So the strategy is to put as much buffer units in between your troops and the opponents. Talking 2ndarys the problem I have found is tau used this way practically give up to obvious ones, "domination" and "bring it down". However this can be used to your advantage. If you know what your opponent is going to try to do you can play around it. A lot of times I have found people see how many easy to kill small drone teams your bringing and pick domination as an obvious one. But by t3 they have killed all the easy stuff and if you have targeted their anti tank properly by t3 they won't have anything easy to kill and you can hold them to only getting 6 or 9 pts.

As for your own secondaries its really easy to get engaged on all fronts. Also with this type of play raise the banners high can be a good choice if the mission has at least 2 objectives near your own zone. Finally you can go after things like abhor the witch quite easily as tau.

I hope all of this helps! I am really enjoying playing tau this edition so far. I am also enjoying not worrying about shield drones and riptide shenanigans.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/23 15:18:54


Post by: Sterling191


The glaring issue with a Piranha plus Devilfish drone parade is that it effectively gifts your opponent 30vp simply by showing up via Attrition and Bring it Down. It also provides savvy players who bring mobile melee units (which is going to be most players in 9th who have functioning brains) multiple means to slingshot units up the board and into your lines. Alternatively, if they have fly (which things like Vanguard Veterans, Triarch Praetorians or other analogous units which you're absolutely going to see do) simply pop over your screen and slam straight into your vulnerable mid and backlines.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/23 16:59:37


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


T'au's lack of any sort of melee threat is really going to hurt us this edition. I feel like objectives just get traded back and forth by competing charges. We cannot do that. We have to shoot someone off of the objective. Then we hope they cannot get a different unit onto it in their next turn, so we can move a unit up to claim it in our next turn.

I really don't want to see T'au get an awesome melee unit even if it is an alien ally. I think this would be a great edition to get jump-shoot-jump back. That way we can shoot someone off of the objective and then move onto it in the same turn. We still will probably get smashed off of it in the opponent's combat phase, but at least we got on it at all.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/25 10:06:26


Post by: Karsight


Are there any good units or strats to handle space marines?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/27 20:49:13


Post by: killerpenguin


 Karsight wrote:
Are there any good units or strats to handle space marines?


A Bork’an Coldstar with the airburst relic it’s D6 shots, AP -2, S 6 and 2 damage. I usually give him the relic, two additional airbursts and ats. I also give him the Bork’an WL trait to get +1 to wound on 6+ to hit. It’s pretty good against SM. I also have the y’vahra in the same detachment so he gets extra range on his weapons. D3 auto hit weapons are amazing, but you’ll need to build your army around him. Other than that I use a lot of cib’s on my enforcers and my xv’8’s.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/29 17:38:19


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


Since T'au seem to be in a rough spot right now, should our Ballistic Skill get improved to 3+ from 4+ in our new codex?

I am of the opinion that we either need to get an improved BS or a revamped Markerlight table since we don't match up well so far in the current edition.

In my ideal world anything in a suit would go to BS 3+, so Crisis, Riptide, Stormsurge, Broadside, Stealth, and Ghostkeel are all hitting on 3s. With that improvement I think we remove the +1 to hit from our Markerlight table, and we set it to something like this:

1 Markerlight gives re-roll 1s to hit.
2 Markerlights allows Seeker Missiles to be fired at unit's BS.
3 Markerlights ignore the target's cover bonuses.
4 Markerlights gives re-roll 1s to wound.

We essentially remove the bonus to hit since that is built into a lot of our datasheets and remove the ability to ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons and advancing and firing assault weapons. Virtually all of our heavy weapons are on vehicles or units that ignore that penalty when moving anyway, so that isn't much of a loss. We add the wound re-rolls because we really need to make our shooting count, and getting four Markerlights on more than one unit in a turn is pretty tough anyway. Finally, we have addition through the subtraction of needing five Markerlights for anything. That just makes it easier for us to get the stuff that we need while shooting.

The other option in my mind would be to keep our BS at 4+(which I do not like at all, by the way), and change up the Markerlight table more significantly. Make it like this:

1 Markerlight gives re-roll 1s to hit.
2 Markerlights ignore the target's cover bonuses.
3 Markerlights add one to the hit roll.
4 Markerlights gives re-roll 1s to wound.

This makes it easier for us to get to the bonus to hit(which would be needed). Seekers would need to be altered in some way. Maybe they just always hit on 4s. They would be a little bit better on a Broadside or Piranha, but a bit worse on a Hammerhead. They could still benefit from Markerlights, though.

Obviously, this is wishlisting, but we are going to need some pretty major changes if we are to keep up in the new edition. Does anyone agree, disagree, or have a different solution they think would help the T'au out in 9th?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/29 18:10:28


Post by: Ice_can


The concept of markerlights as the way to balance tau needs to die as frankly keeping them alive is impossible.
Pathfinders dead to a stiff breeze. Leaving you with taking up 3 elite slots and all of your HQ slots for 6 markerlight charictors good thing elites slots dont contain competitive units like Riptides, Crisis Suits Stealth suits, Ghostkeels and Y'vharra, R'vanna, XV9's (if CA2020 was correct).

Keeping Crisis Suits from being troops when marine have Gravis armour in their is dumb. Crisis suits as troops especially if they could declaring a charge on objectives would certainly help.

BS3 for a number of units would also help.

Crisis Boadyguards should say elites but get BS3 WS4

Also Kroot need to be worthwhile in Melee Kroot with 2A and AP-1 on the rifles in CC. Would atleast allow options for taking/contesting objectives.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/29 18:38:43


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


Ice_can wrote:
The concept of markerlights as the way to balance tau needs to die as frankly keeping them alive is impossible.
Pathfinders dead to a stiff breeze. Leaving you with taking up 3 elite slots and all of your HQ slots for 6 markerlight charictors good thing elites slots dont contain competitive units like Riptides, Crisis Suits Stealth suits, Ghostkeels and Y'vharra, R'vanna, XV9's (if CA2020 was correct).

Keeping Crisis Suits from being troops when marine have Gravis armour in their is dumb. Crisis suits as troops especially if they could declaring a charge on objectives would certainly help.

BS3 for a number of units would also help.

Crisis Boadyguards should say elites but get BS3 WS4

Also Kroot need to be worthwhile in Melee Kroot with 2A and AP-1 on the rifles in CC. Would atleast allow options for taking/contesting objectives.


I tend to agree with your opinion on Markerlights. The balance needs to fall to the units and then Markerlights are just there as bonuses. I essentially see the Markerlights as the aura buffs that Marines get from Captains or Lieutenants. It could be used as a unique way to get re-rolls of 1 for hitting and wounding out(which basically every other army has access to in some way), so our units on their own wouldn't be handicapped if they didn't get that bonus.

A Space Marine Devastator Squad isn't essentially nerfed if you don't have a Captain standing next to them for re-rolls, but it definitely helps. I want to feel that way about Broadsides, for example. I want a Broadside to feel good on its own, and if it is shooting at something with Markerlight hits it just helps to buff it slightly. As of right now I just don't feel that way about most of our units.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/30 21:23:39


Post by: ThePie


So i was thinking of getting into Tau and i have two questions...

Is it even worth getting shield drones compared to gun/marker drones? While the shield drones have a 33% chance to survive the mortal wound, you can instead just get 50% more of the other drones and they can help shoot instead of doing nothing?

Secondly, as long as you have a drone controller, arent marker drones better than pathfinders now as well? cheaper and better survability.





T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/30 22:00:24


Post by: Ice_can


I don't want to be Major negativity but in good conscience I could NOT recomend starting Tau untill they have a 9th edition codex as they just can't play the 9th edition mission formats.

Shield drones unless they arw taking direct fire arn't IMHO worth it at their current rediculous points.

Better than Pathfinders, is a very low bar sadly, not to mention markee drones need to be supported and have to be exposed and anyone who knows what their doing will sweep markerlights up quickly.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/30 23:52:25


Post by: Chenko_chenko


Just played again a meta chasing list:
Salamanders:
3 x 6 Erradicators
3 x 3 ATVs
2 x 2 Attack Bikes
Chief Apothecary, Librarian, Captain, lieutenant.

BIG OOF.

My FSE airwing list which had done pretty well up to that point against Guard, Nids, Demons, Thousand Sons but here got annihilated. The board size coupled with meltas with 27" range before movements on a small strike force board is overwhelming when there were 50 melta shots coming my way each turn.

My suggestions are; 1) tone down SM and 2)

I like the idea of Markerlights, I would increase the synergy by allowing Missile Pods, Seakers, Cluster Rockets (Stormsurge) and HYMP to not require LOS if the target has a marker-light on it.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/31 15:37:18


Post by: ThePie


For a coldstar commander, would a triple airburst with the supernova relic and the advanced targeting system be a good build?

Figuring with how fast he is he can hide behind terrain and stay safe and keep shooting.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/10/31 15:41:47


Post by: Ice_can


 ThePie wrote:
For a coldstar commander, would a triple airburst with the supernova relic and the advanced targeting system be a good build?

Figuring with how fast he is he can hide behind terrain and stay safe and keep shooting.


Appart from it only giving you 2 frag bursts and the relic which you need to be in Charge range to use.

AFP's seem way less of a liability on crisis suits who can have a chance at fighting back.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/01 23:12:21


Post by: tneva82


Something interesting(at least for me) tabletop titan battle report today revealed. As far as playtesters knew the tau were not getting overwatch as now. They were surprised by the FAQ entry. Seems that was last minute change and means also it never was playtested as such.

Guess that explains when initially on previews GW sayd 2 units can overwatch when they overwatch. That was what was going to happen until they changed it.

Good for tau. It's hard enough now. Without overwatch as now it would be even harder


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/02 00:02:51


Post by: Ice_can


tneva82 wrote:
Something interesting(at least for me) tabletop titan battle report today revealed. As far as playtesters knew the tau were not getting overwatch as now. They were surprised by the FAQ entry. Seems that was last minute change and means also it never was playtested as such.

Guess that explains when initially on previews GW sayd 2 units can overwatch when they overwatch. That was what was going to happen until they changed it.

Good for tau. It's hard enough now. Without overwatch as now it would be even harder

The issue is if that's true and no reason to believe it's not, that says either

The free overwatch will disappear when the 9th edition codex drops, as that was what they were supposed to be playtesting.

The playtesting highlighted an underperforming codex and this is the GW bandaid, aka RIP Tau for 9th.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/05 20:40:28


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Where do you get Forgeworld Hammerhead turrets? I don't see any on the website.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/05 20:49:55


Post by: Ice_can


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Where do you get Forgeworld Hammerhead turrets? I don't see any on the website.

Well they nolonger have rules so sinply put you don't, you could buy them from Forgeworld but they haven't sold them for years, hence them nolonger having rules in the new Imperial Armour.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/05 21:29:11


Post by: Sazzlefrats


That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/05 23:15:09


Post by: Ice_can


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.

Sadly not quite, they currently live in the no valid rules camp as to my knowledge GW have not yet released a legends updated for all the Forgeworld models that were removed from the new book, and the old books are invalid.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/09 18:01:15


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


Ice_can wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.

Sadly not quite, they currently live in the no valid rules camp as to my knowledge GW have not yet released a legends updated for all the Forgeworld models that were removed from the new book, and the old books are invalid.


That all changed today:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/09/the-legends-live-on/


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/09 19:09:28


Post by: Aeri


The great knarloc looks so fun.
A pitty kroot don't fit the Japanese Gundam Style GW is pursuing


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/10 17:35:27


Post by: Sazzlefrats


 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That just makes them legends status, which is fine most of the time for me.

Sadly not quite, they currently live in the no valid rules camp as to my knowledge GW have not yet released a legends updated for all the Forgeworld models that were removed from the new book, and the old books are invalid.


That all changed today:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/09/the-legends-live-on/



Ouch that did change, we lost our separate data sheets, so I can't run 6 or 7 different hammerhead units now... back to 3, and points increases for most options, though the high yield missile pods are well priced.

My main goal is to find a replacement for skyrays that just suck after they shoot their missiles. I'm now looking at fusion blaster piranhas as replacements. Unless someone has a better idea...

Here's a sample list (1 battalion,1 patrol) (its likely the patrol will be farsight enclaves and have two bombers, to use the flyer mortal wound stratagem)

Shadowsun
LongStrike
FireBlade Cadre
Fireblade Cadre

5 x Firewarriors
5 x Firewarriors
5 x Firewarriors
5 x Firewarriors

Ion Hammerhead
Ion Hammerhead
Ion Hammerhead

1 Piranha, fusion blasters, gun drones, 2 x seeker missiles
1 Piranha, fusion blasters, gun drones, 2 x seeker missiles
2 Piranha, fusion blasters, gun drones, 2 x seeker missiles

SunShark Bomber
SunShark Bomber
SunShark Bomber


or Great Knarlocs.... wow just 65pts with a twin kroot gun


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/12 10:19:21


Post by: ThePie


What loadout do people think is the best for Crisis suits atm? Im wondering if the CIB are too expensive for what they do, would burst cannons or the new buffed flamers be better?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/12 16:25:06


Post by: Sazzlefrats


 ThePie wrote:
What loadout do people think is the best for Crisis suits atm? Im wondering if the CIB are too expensive for what they do, would burst cannons or the new buffed flamers be better?


It depends. I tried flamers just recently, my opponent even let me hit two of his squads with 8 flamers... I think I killed 1 biker and 2 space marines. Not impressive, maybe if I had the warlord trait "unity through devastation" or a squad larger than 3. But... all in all, I would have been happier with CIB, jus FSSt in my list I didn't want my 3 man xv8 bodyguard unit that was protecting Longstrike to be viewed as a worthwhile target.

If you are running FSE, the commanders will want all kinds of fun stuff, fusion blasters, missile pods, and CIB... they all have one common theme... multiple damage.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/14 09:27:10


Post by: Nibbler


I'm not sure if anybody can help me out, or give me some information regarding the new imperial armour compendium and the big tau suits.

my questions would be, if the y'varha suit changed and if yes, did he change for the better? (still not sure if I should get the big fw suits and the IA compendium)


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/14 10:23:24


Post by: Ice_can


The Y'vharra got unnecessarily nerfed, Rvanna got a lot better than it was, but given it was unplayable thats not a shining endorsement either.
I thibk the R'vanna is the better of the two currently, however compaired to Marine units they are like taking a nef bad to a gun fight currently.

I simply don't get the justification for their huge points costs.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/16 02:02:42


Post by: Chenko_chenko


Updated Remoras are meaty for FSE! Pairing a squad of 4 with a Coldstar w/drone controller = chef kiss emoji.

Output for 400 points:
3 Fusion Blasters S8 AP-4 D: D6
32 Burst Cannon - S5 AP- 0 D: 1
8 Remora Seekers - S8 AP-2 D: D3
4 Markerlights

Remoras being a unit of 3+ models provide Coldstar cover for lookout sir. Remoras have Hard to hit and count as being in light cover against ranged attacks from their 'Stealth Field Technology'. Their new 5W is a huge buff I feel.

Given that they can move 30" (with a -1 to hit for the Coldstar without a Warlord trait) one can couple all of that with FSE 's +1 Markerlight within 12" and reroll 1s to wound within 6". The stratagem 'Firestorm' adds another element to them.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/16 17:27:54


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Remora's look good now. Glad I have a pair, gonna have to run them.

Reroll wound rolls of 1 within 6", has been replaced with +1 markerlight within 12"


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/17 17:54:14


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Remora's look good now. Glad I have a pair, gonna have to run them.

Reroll wound rolls of 1 within 6", has been replaced with +1 markerlight within 12"


I've just looked over the PA Greater Good, the Codex and the relevant up to date FAQs.

Devastating Counter Strike is a Sept Tenet (Codex Page 127).

PA Greater Good gave Farsight Enclaves 'new rules' for: Stratagems, Relics, Warlord Traits & Tactical Objectives (PA GG Page 50).

Furthermore 'Sept Tenet' Devastating Counter Strike is explicitly mentioned in PA Greater Good (PA GG Page 46) :

"Sept Tenet
If your army is Battle-forged, all models in the Eight’s Detachment gain the following Sept Tenet:
Devastating Counter-strike: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model with this tenet against a unit within 6", you can re-roll a wound roll of 1."


As there is nowhere that states that regular Farsight Enclaves units don't get a Sept Tenet and every unit in the Codex other than Vespid and Kroot units contain the keyword <Sept> one presumes that they keep the Sept Tenet.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/17 17:59:12


Post by: Sterling191


Devastating Counterstrike and Aggressive Footing are not mutually exclusive.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/18 17:11:25


Post by: Sazzlefrats


I must have misread that in the past. Enclave flyers, get close, reroll 1's to hit and 1's to wound rolls... wow. I'm going to run 3 bombers like all the time :-)


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/18 18:56:50


Post by: Ice_can


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I must have misread that in the past. Enclave flyers, get close, reroll 1's to hit and 1's to wound rolls... wow. I'm going to run 3 bombers like all the time :-)
People did try it the issue is the codex flyers arn't hard to kill and the forge world ones got brutally points costed in 8th and then nerfed in the new book. Should be fun in for fun games though.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/18 23:01:40


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Almost nothing is hard to kill in the tau codex, the battlesuits lists are better or were, but you pay dearly for the drone protection with less overall firepower.

Last game I had, my single flyer was responsible for 15 dead cultists, 4 dead havocs and most of a demon prince. Rerolling 1s to wound might have had me bag that DP solo.

Everything dies, the problem with a mech list, is that if you have skyrays, you get one turn of amazing, followed by four turns of lackluster performace. A good opponent knows that and focuses on your hammerheads, which are kinda easier to take down.Then your flyers are all you have. I wasn't aware that enclaves had two tenents, this is key. Also whats key is replacing skyrays with something thats a credible threat each turn its allowed to live. Since the forgeworld variant hammerheads are no better than the codex variety, and... we lost the datasheets, I'm back to skyrays, but they aren't good for a tournament list, so... I'm not back. SunShark Bombers have a lot of nice tools, but as you mentioned give them attention and they will fall. But if your entire list is equally good, equally tough, and sufficiently diverse you are going to be in a good spot.
Therefore, spam the hammerheads, spam the bombers, spam... piranhas and remoras? Remoras are in the same good space as sunshark bombers, excellent utility for the points and tougher than they look to take down. I only have 2 though, expensive to buy, (cheap to field, 60pts for 2xlongshot burst cannons, 2 seekers, and 1 markerlight)

Great Knarlocs look good too, but good luck finding those to buy.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/19 13:59:54


Post by: carldooley


Sterling191 wrote:
Devastating Counterstrike and Aggressive Footing are not mutually exclusive.

It isn't?

Irregardless, the ability to take 2 Commanders per Detachment certainly IS.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/19 14:10:58


Post by: Sterling191


 carldooley wrote:

It isn't?


No, they are not. One is your Sept Tenet for being FSE, the other is an ability added to FSE detachments that is not a Sept tenet.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/21 00:06:59


Post by: Chenko_chenko


Tau Hive mind, C'Tans - max 3 wounds a phase and living metal allows them to getting one back each turn. As the odds on us doing damage in the Movement, Charge and Fight Phase are slim, we can't seemingly kill them until Turn 4. Anyone have any ideas what to do?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/21 01:15:36


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Chenko_chenko wrote:
Tau Hive mind, C'Tans - max 3 wounds a phase and living metal allows them to getting one back each turn. As the odds on us doing damage in the Movement, Charge and Fight Phase are slim, we can't seemingly kill them until Turn 4. Anyone have any ideas what to do?[/quote

Farsight Enclaves.
1. SunShark Bomber... flys over CTAN, then firestorm stratagem, that might get 3MW if you are lucky
2. Add a nice round of shooting and
3. 5 crisis suits...with furious assault stratagem, then a good round of combat

That's pretty reliable.

I'm running mech enclaves, so I can do everything but the mellee part. C'Tans need to charge to really do exciting stuff, so I might have to rely on them charging me or... take two rounds to pop each 1. Or ignore them and decimate the rest of the army.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/21 15:10:56


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Chenko_chenko wrote:
Tau Hive mind, C'Tans - max 3 wounds a phase and living metal allows them to getting one back each turn. As the odds on us doing damage in the Movement, Charge and Fight Phase are slim, we can't seemingly kill them until Turn 4. Anyone have any ideas what to do?[/quote

Farsight Enclaves.
1. SunShark Bomber... flys over CTAN, then firestorm stratagem, that might get 3MW if you are lucky
2. Add a nice round of shooting and
3. 5 crisis suits...with furious assault stratagem, then a good round of combat

That's pretty reliable.

I'm running mech enclaves, so I can do everything but the mellee part. C'Tans need to charge to really do exciting stuff, so I might have to rely on them charging me or... take two rounds to pop each 1. Or ignore them and decimate the rest of the army.



Yeah, I run FSE too and was just wondering how regular Tau were planning to deal with them. I was up against 2 Ctan in a 2k point yesterday and they were spooky.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/21 17:29:41


Post by: Sazzlefrats


How were the CTan Setup? Which ones were used?

I would imagine in tournaments, it'll be warrior spam, if so, I'm fine, got enough juice with all my tanks to take out 50+ warriors in a single turn if they drop on me. But limited answers to CTan as you might suspect. So maybe I'd have to ignore CTan, other than dropping 3 wounds per turn, and take both out on turn 4


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/24 21:26:45


Post by: BertBert


So did any of you manage to get some games in? Tau seem to be considered one of the weaker forces in 9th, but I wonder if that's just due to a lack of data and mathhammering the rules.

How do you suppose we can contest objectives in 9th? Breachers in Devilfish look appealing, but what about Shadowsun and Stealth Suits/Ghostkeels?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/24 22:45:02


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
How were the CTan Setup? Which ones were used?

I would imagine in tournaments, it'll be warrior spam, if so, I'm fine, got enough juice with all my tanks to take out 50+ warriors in a single turn if they drop on me. But limited answers to CTan as you might suspect. So maybe I'd have to ignore C'Tan, other than dropping 3 wounds per turn, and take both out on turn 4


1 Night Bringer
1 Void Dragon

4 x Canoptek Wraith
4 x Canoptek Wraith

1 x Canoptek DoomStalker
1 x Canoptek DoomStalker
1 x Canoptek DoomStalker

1 x Silent King
1 x Technomancer

2000 points, 107PL, 9CP


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/25 00:04:52


Post by: Sazzlefrats


 BertBert wrote:
So did any of you manage to get some games in? Tau seem to be considered one of the weaker forces in 9th, but I wonder if that's just due to a lack of data and mathhammering the rules.

How do you suppose we can contest objectives in 9th? Breachers in Devilfish look appealing, but what about Shadowsun and Stealth Suits/Ghostkeels?



That's the issue... Tau can't. There isn't a bully unit that can hold up to shooting and mellee. Imperial Guad have bullgryns, Custodes are custodes. Terminators are resilent, so are plague marines. We were given kroot.... just isn't the same. Even if we could afford things like krootox riders and great knarlocs... they are all legends... and just not tough enough, though for the points I'll take it. But I can't get it so... nevermind.

Remoras look good... I'm not spending 400+ usd for 12 of them though.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/25 00:10:09


Post by: greatbigtree


I think you can only have 1 C’tan per detachment... Necron Codex Pg 51, last line at the bottom.

I don’t think you can slice that list to have 2 detachments with access to an elite in each.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/25 00:43:54


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Chenko_chenko wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
How were the CTan Setup? Which ones were used?

I would imagine in tournaments, it'll be warrior spam, if so, I'm fine, got enough juice with all my tanks to take out 50+ warriors in a single turn if they drop on me. But limited answers to CTan as you might suspect. So maybe I'd have to ignore C'Tan, other than dropping 3 wounds per turn, and take both out on turn 4


1 Night Bringer
1 Void Dragon

4 x Canoptek Wraith
4 x Canoptek Wraith

1 x Canoptek DoomStalker
1 x Canoptek DoomStalker
1 x Canoptek DoomStalker

1 x Silent King
1 x Technomancer

2000 points, 107PL, 9CP


I think you have bigger things to worry about than trying to kill CTans in a single turn. Whats your list? How are you dealing with his shooting elements (doomstalkers & Silent King)? And assuming the Technomancer has a cloak, you need him gone to cut down on the healing. You already got living metal to deal with. (As an aside, if the meta is space marines eradicators and melta fun, I think this list will have fits there first, and not pop up too much in tournaments).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/25 13:19:46


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 greatbigtree wrote:
I think you can only have 1 C’tan per detachment... Necron Codex Pg 51, last line at the bottom.

I don’t think you can slice that list to have 2 detachments with access to an elite in each.


2000 points, 9CP, 107 PL:

Auxiliary Detachment -2CP
EL: C'Tan Shard Nightbringer - 350 points

Supreme Commander +3CP
SC: Silent King - 450 points

Spearhead -4CP
HQ: Technomancer + Phylcaterine Hive + Canoptek Control Node - 110 points

FA: 4 x Canoptek Wraith - 140 points
FA: 4 x Canoptek Wraith - 140 points

EL: C'Tan Void Dragon - 350 points
EL: Crypto Thralls - 40 points

HV: Canoptek Doomstalker - 140 points
HV: Canoptek Doomstalker - 140 points
HV: Canoptek Doomstalker - 140 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I think you have bigger things to worry about than trying to kill CTans in a single turn. Whats your list? How are you dealing with his shooting elements (doomstalkers & Silent King)? And assuming the Technomancer has a cloak, you need him gone to cut down on the healing. You already got living metal to deal with. (As an aside, if the meta is space marines eradicators and melta fun, I think this list will have fits there first, and not pop up too much in tournaments).


I used two patrol detachments:

1st: Farsight
HQ: 1 x coldstar (3 FB 1 Drone Controller) Fusion Blades
HQ: 1 x coldstar (3 FB 1 Drone Controller) Onager Gauntlet

Tr: 1 x 5 Strike Team

Elite: Heavy Burst Riptide w/ATS

Fly: 4 x Remora
Fly: 4 x Remora

2nd: Farsight
HQ: 1 x Coldstar (3 FB 1 Drone Controller) Warlord w/Through Unity Devastation

Tr: 1 x 5 Strike Team

Elite: Relic Ion Riptide w/ Plasma Rifles

FA: 5 x Shield Drones
FA: 5 x Shield Drones

Fly: 4 x Remora

Basically I was just trying to blitz the stuff I can kill then zip over the C'Tan shards was the goal. Purge the Vermin forces one to get up the field early before they're spread out.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/25 16:07:36


Post by: greatbigtree


Yup, I forgot about Aux detachments.

Purge the vermin is nasty... Did you take Linebreaker (and deepstrike units behind) to counter?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/25 18:40:39


Post by: Sazzlefrats


That looks like a fun list. I hadn't thought of drone controllers with remoras. But I don't see that the riptides are a solid part of the fun, no secondary systems. Not really enough drone support, and compared to the commanders and remoras for the points not enough firepower, and the current list seems to be 2001pts

What about sunshark bombers and ghostkeels? Don't be afraid to run 3 patrols... 6 units of flyers... too much fun :-)

But I see how you probably tackle the necrons... fly over for a round or two, and then mellee the ctan in turn 3 or 4. The only issue with that is... you get 3 swings totals with melee weapons. Maybe you want a unit of xv8 body guards to smash into the ctan with mortal wounds in the charge phase and then melee in the fight phase. combined with sunshark bombers and remoras dropping mortal wounds... it might work...


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/26 00:43:25


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
That looks like a fun list. I hadn't thought of drone controllers with remoras. But I don't see that the riptides are a solid part of the fun, no secondary systems. Not really enough drone support, and compared to the commanders and remoras for the points not enough firepower, and the current list seems to be 2001pts

What about sunshark bombers and ghostkeels? Don't be afraid to run 3 patrols... 6 units of flyers... too much fun :-)

But I see how you probably tackle the necrons... fly over for a round or two, and then mellee the ctan in turn 3 or 4. The only issue with that is... you get 3 swings totals with melee weapons. Maybe you want a unit of xv8 body guards to smash into the ctan with mortal wounds in the charge phase and then melee in the fight phase. combined with sunshark bombers and remoras dropping mortal wounds... it might work...


Drew up a prospective list for taking on the Necrons that was able to win a Grand Tournament Game 78-70 against a competitive Salamander list (he was practising for a tournament)


1 Patrol -2 CP - Sa' Ce
ELITE 1 x Cadre Fireblade
ELITE 1 x Cadre Fireblade

TROOP 1 x 5 man strike team

ELITE 1 x Firesight Marksman
ELITE 1 x Firesight Marksman

FAST ATTACK 1 x 5 man Pathfinder squad w/Recon Drone


1 Super Heavy Auxiliary - 3CP
LOW Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Canon, Shield Generator, Velocity Tracker and Relic Annihilation Warheads


1 Patrol -1 CP - Farsight Enclaves
HQ 1 x Coldstar 3 fusion drone controller - through unity devastation

TROOP 1 x 5 man strike team

FAST ATTACK 3 Piranhas w/6 seakers
FAST ATTACK 3 Piranhas w/6 seakers

ELITE 3 x Veteran Crisis Suit w/ 9 Fusion Blasters w/Cross Linked Stabilisers (rerolls 1s on hits and wounds)

FLY 4 x Remoras
FLY 4 x Remoras



Synergy of that Sa'Cea stratagem that can put a marker light on a unit visible to a Sa'Cea character and all units with 6" - that combines with the Farsight Enclaves +1 Markerlight within 12" which allows the Remoras and the Piranhas to use their seakers, so T1 one can fire up to 12 Seakers, 16 Remora Seakers, 4 Annihilation Warheads.

I took your advise with regards to secondaries: Engage on All Fronts + Raise the Banner + Assassinate and got 6+ points on each of them.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/26 00:57:37


Post by: Jabberscythe


I think Tau have some really nice things going on, you just need to play it diffrent way then you used to.
What I think are their best units :

Tiger Shark with modulated weaponary stratagem - he offer 24 multiple dmg shots at decent -2 ap (you can increase it by 1 with warlord trait). Its enough firepower to take down most of your enemy army by it’s own, it lacks durability so I guess its a Glass Cannon

Commander spam , those guys hit all their shots, and it is a lot of the shots, you can field 6 of them if You Deicide to go triple patrol. They are self sufficient, doesnt require markerlight shots. They are also quite mobile (coldstar ones) so they can really jump around map delivering shots where its needed and capture empty objectives

9 crisis Battlesuit with flamers - ATS, volume of shots can take down 10 Man marines squad in a single round of fire. They are also self sufficient, they do not require any markerlights. They also want to be charged by a good unit once as their overwatch does same amount of damage.

Y’vhara battlesuit - similar as crisis bomb, self sufficient, enough firepower to take down full marine squad, doesnt loose that much output damage when its overwatching.

Cheap troops to fill detachments


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/29 10:41:46


Post by: Tyel


Not something I'd ever have the models to run - but I can't help wondering if a hard skew might have more competitive success given the current meta. I'm thinking basically carpet of kroot+commander spam.

So something like:

FSE Battalion.
XV85, 3 Cyclic Ion Blaster+ATS
XV85, 3 Cyclic Ion Blaster+ATS
20 Kroot
20 Kroot
20 Kroot
20 Kroot
20 Kroot
20 Kroot
Shaper
Shaper
Shaper

FSE Patrol
XV85, 3 Cyclic Ion Blaster+ATS
XV86 Coldstar, 4 Fusion
20 Kroot

FSE Patrol
XV86 Coldstar, 4 Fusion
XV86 Coldstar, 4 Fusion
20 Kroot

For 1992 points.
Another variant would be ditching the FSE in say the Battalion, dropping one commander for 2 ethereals to scatter a 6+++ throughout the army and make up the difference with yet more kroot. It also ups the Kroot's leadership to 9, which is okay - but realistically, I think you are failing morale if anyone seriously shoots you. This could be the downside - and taking lots of 10 man squads might therefore be preferable.

As an army though, assuming you can keep the commanders screened, there isn't anything worth shooting with quality weapons. Commanders meanwhile offer decent shooting and movement while Kroot provide board control and respectable damage output compared to comparably pointed units.

The downside is your opponent is taking Assassinate and Thin Their Ranks and I'm not sure over a game you can stop them maxing them out. But if you can really win out on the primary that might not matter as much.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/29 14:27:06


Post by: greatbigtree


For me, I think FW spam would be more effective. With a Fireblade, and the Tau Sept you’re doing tremendous overwatch damage. Fewer bodies, but better guns and survivability vs massed small arms.

Having played a handful of games (just started Tau) I find that *lots* of FW are critical to my in game success.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/30 18:34:49


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Flyer spam is better.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/11/30 20:01:11


Post by: Xenomancers


Honestly I don't think the ctan are a major issue for tau. If you deal damage to them in overwatch (which is pretty easy) you are doing better than most armies at killing ctan quickly.

I do think overall that they sun shark bomber is great for 9th. No more -1 for moving. Drops bombs every turn. Reasonably durable.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/01 00:18:30


Post by: Tyel


I'm afraid I think the basic FW's days are increasingly numbered. S5 AP- 1 damage just doesn't cut it against Marines, Custodes, the new Death Guard we are about to see and so on. At the same time the basic 4+ save is so often reduced to near nothing again because of Marines and the meta they produce.

This is sort of becoming a problem throughout the game, because GW have made decent save wounds far too cheap on multi-wound models. This is sort of intentional fluffwise - but the game outturn is that people just won't use those units beyond the minimum. When the Tau Codex rolls round I'd expect pulse weapons to get something like "6s to wound do 2 damage" - or FW to get a significant points cut.

I'm not really sure on Sunsharks. Yes, offensive output is reasonable, although not great due to the usual Tau weakness of being BS4 while paying BS3 prices. I think if you play defensively (i.e. turn 1 just move horizontally across your own deployment zone, utilising the 30" range) there may be something. In competitive terms though I think zooming them forward is just asking for them to be deleted, as most *good* armies shouldn't struggle to clear multiple 12 wound T6 4+ models, even with a minus to hit, in a turn of average dice.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/01 01:08:31


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Tyel wrote:
I'm afraid I think the basic FW's days are increasingly numbered. S5 AP- 1 damage just doesn't cut it against Marines, Custodes, the new Death Guard we are about to see and so on. At the same time the basic 4+ save is so often reduced to near nothing again because of Marines and the meta they produce.

This is sort of becoming a problem throughout the game, because GW have made decent save wounds far too cheap on multi-wound models. This is sort of intentional fluffwise - but the game outturn is that people just won't use those units beyond the minimum. When the Tau Codex rolls round I'd expect pulse weapons to get something like "6s to wound do 2 damage" - or FW to get a significant points cut.

I'm not really sure on Sunsharks. Yes, offensive output is reasonable, although not great due to the usual Tau weakness of being BS4 while paying BS3 prices. I think if you play defensively (i.e. turn 1 just move horizontally across your own deployment zone, utilising the 30" range) there may be something. In competitive terms though I think zooming them forward is just asking for them to be deleted, as most *good* armies shouldn't struggle to clear multiple 12 wound T6 4+ models, even with a minus to hit, in a turn of average dice.


YMMV. In a list with Sunsharks, Remoras, Hammerheads and Skyrays... which do you target first? This is rhetorical of course, all nearly equally good targets, somethings will die, but not everything. My last game I had a skyray, longstrike and a hammerhead and all of my infantry, shadowsun and my 3vx flammer squad left, my opponent had one chaos terminator sorcerer alive... I did lose but it was close 68 to 75, I should have rushed the center objective, or I should have pushed forward sooner, I went 2nd. My solo Sunshark was put down on turn 3, and one drone lasted until turn 4. It did zoom forward, far left edge of the board, right into 2 demon princes, a missile launcher havoc squad, 2 cultists units and 5 bikers. I killed the shooty stuff, and he didn't want to go backwards with his mellee units, and his other havocs couldn't get LOS. So it lived. Turn 2, I face oblits and combimelta terminators but they didn't want to be that far out of position, so the sunshark go to live until turn 3, when I went after and failed to take out the terminators. You can be aggressive and live, if you end up in a place where your opponent cant see or doesn't want to be in.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/03 00:11:36


Post by: Chenko_chenko


Tyel wrote:
I'm afraid I think the basic FW's days are increasingly numbered. S5 AP- 1 damage just doesn't cut it against Marines, Custodes, the new Death Guard we are about to see and so on. At the same time the basic 4+ save is so often reduced to near nothing again because of Marines and the meta they produce.

This is sort of becoming a problem throughout the game, because GW have made decent save wounds far too cheap on multi-wound models. This is sort of intentional fluffwise - but the game outturn is that people just won't use those units beyond the minimum. When the Tau Codex rolls round I'd expect pulse weapons to get something like "6s to wound do 2 damage" - or FW to get a significant points cut.

I'm not really sure on Sunsharks. Yes, offensive output is reasonable, although not great due to the usual Tau weakness of being BS4 while paying BS3 prices. I think if you play defensively (i.e. turn 1 just move horizontally across your own deployment zone, utilising the 30" range) there may be something. In competitive terms though I think zooming them forward is just asking for them to be deleted, as most *good* armies shouldn't struggle to clear multiple 12 wound T6 4+ models, even with a minus to hit, in a turn of average dice.


After some thought, the easiest way to make Tau competitive is make 6 markerlights ignore invulnerable saves and I think we're back.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/08 12:22:11


Post by: Chenko_chenko


Was able to beat the Double C'Tan list, probably down to luck. At my opponents recommendation I went for Command Spam:

1st Patrol:
1 x Shadow Sun
1 x Coldstar w/ 3 fusion blasters, shield generator

1 x 5 Breachers

2nd Patrol:
1 x Coldstar w/ 3 fusion blasters, shield generator
1 x Coldstar w/ 3 fusion blasters, shield generator

1 x 5 Breachers

Super Heavy Auxiliary
1 x The Eight

10 Commanders, a Riptide and a broadside character with 5CP - lol.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/08 19:08:51


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Yeah I don't think your first patrol is legal.

From the Greater Good "If you are playing a matched play game with a
Battle-forged army, you can include no more than
two FARSIGHT ENCLAVES COMMANDER units
in each Detachment."


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/08 19:14:34


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Yeah I don't think your first patrol is legal.

From the Greater Good "If you are playing a matched play game with a
Battle-forged army, you can include no more than
two FARSIGHT ENCLAVES COMMANDER units
in each Detachment."


There are only two commanders in each of the detachments shown.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/08 20:03:05


Post by: Sazzlefrats


The requirement is not more than two FARSIGHT ENCLAVE COMMANDERS... not any two random commanders, not even a commander that doesn't break FSE detachment rules, but two full fledged FSE Commanders.


And Shadowsuns only real use in that list is that her drones special abilities other than savior protocals, are not sept locked. Is it worth a 6+ FNP to field her vs an FSE enforcer with more guns? I want to say that I'm impressed that the list was able to beat the double C'Tan list. It doesn't look like it would work.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/08 20:11:48


Post by: Ice_can


 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Yeah I don't think your first patrol is legal.

From the Greater Good "If you are playing a matched play game with a
Battle-forged army, you can include no more than
two FARSIGHT ENCLAVES COMMANDER units
in each Detachment."


There are only two commanders in each of the detachments shown.

Shadowsun doesn't count as she lacks the Farsight keyword.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/09 00:18:23


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Yeah I don't think your first patrol is legal.

From the Greater Good "If you are playing a matched play game with a
Battle-forged army, you can include no more than
two FARSIGHT ENCLAVES COMMANDER units
in each Detachment."


Indeed it does say that but that doesn't prohibit non-Farsight Commanders in addition Shadowsun's Supreme Commander ability allows her to be deployed into any Tau Empire detatchment and not impact the Army's Battleforged status - although she doesn't gain the Sept/Farisight Abilities.

Arguably you can bring three commanders in a Farsight Detachment if one is Shadowsun as RAW there is nothing to say you cannot. Every time I've brought a list like that however I have asked for my opponents consent and explained the rules - if people don't understand I don't bring her, those who consent think Tau should take every advantage they can take right now.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/09 01:11:49


Post by: Sazzlefrats


If you have opponents permission go for it. In matched play its not legal.

Supreme Commander: This model can be included in
a T’AU EMPIRE Detachment without preventing other
units in that Detachment from gaining a Sept Tenet.

This only allows you to mix Septs, without breaking the sept benefit for all the other models in that detachment. It says nothing about overriding the commander limits per detachment.


So as to not rehash an older debate please reference https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/791672.page

Anyhow... how did you play your list against the necrons? Who went first?



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/09 14:22:29


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
If you have opponents permission go for it. In matched play its not legal.

Supreme Commander: This model can be included in
a T’AU EMPIRE Detachment without preventing other
units in that Detachment from gaining a Sept Tenet.

This only allows you to mix Septs, without breaking the sept benefit for all the other models in that detachment. It says nothing about overriding the commander limits per detachment.


So as to not rehash an older debate please reference https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/791672.page

Anyhow... how did you play your list against the necrons? Who went first?



Oh yeah I saw that thread , I have emailed GW about it as it would be easier with clarification as I can see both arguments. (The Eight exist as a precedent that you can have more that 2 commanders in a detachment (they've got 6) one presumes they didn't mean for Shadowsun to be a gettaround of the Farsight Commanders.


Re: Necrons:
Spoiler:

We did GT 33 Priority Target: (Deployment is diagonal)
Tau secondries:
Engage on All Fronts (EoAF)
Bring it Down (BiD)
Priority Targes (PT)

Necron secondries:
Purge the Vermin (PtV)
Assassinate (Ass)
While We Stand We Fight (WWS) [Silent King, Nightbringer, Void Dragon]

I went first, deployed Shadowsun in No Mans Land behind obscuring terrain, the three Coldstars, Ovesa (The Eight's Riptide) and breachers behind obscuring terrain. The rest of the Eight were in deep strike

First turn - Coldstars advanced to behind obscuring terrain in the middle of the board and Ovesa fired at the Void Dragon and took him down three wounds. One breacher moves to the far corner away from my deployment.

Necrons advanced the Void Dragon and Night Bringer forward behind obscuring terrain as I was out of range so the C'Tan powers couldn't be used any way. Moved one unit of Wraiths towards the middle and another towards the corner outside but nearest to his deployment zone. Moved two of the Doomwalkers into obscuring terrain and kept one behind obscuring terrain with the Silent King.

Couldn't fire/charge anything.

First Round - 15 (3 PT + 2 EoAF) vs 10

Second Round - I'm on the priority objective in my deployment but that's it, Coldstars waited behind cover, I brought down one of the Eight, Arra'kon (CIB+ AFP) onto an objective in cover with his drones and the Broadside in the corner the wraiths were heading for. Brought in another of the Eight, Bravestorm (Onager Gauntler) to back up the breachers.

Riptide moves and shoots at one of the Doomstalkers, injuring it. The Broadside and his drones fired at the Silent King but all wounds were saved.

Necrons:

Wraiths go into the middle objective, Nightbringer stays near to the Silent King, Void Dragon moves towards the corner with the Breachers and the Commander.

Only one C'Tan power is able to be used, the one where you pick three units and if your roll less than the number of models in that unit score D3 mortal wounds - I lose 1 Breacher and Shadowsun's Drones.

Doomstalker and Silent King shoot my Broadside and his drones, his drones get killed and then he takes the Menhirs (BS 2+ S10 -5AP D: flat 6) to the face and his killed.

Second Round - 20 (5 OBJ + 3 PT + 2 EoAF) vs 20 (5 OBJ + 3 Ass + 2 PtV)

Third Round:
The rest of the Eight drop in around the Wraiths in the middle objective, Shadowsun moves towards the aforementioned Wraiths to help kill them.
Three Coldstars Mont'ka and go behind the Silent King.

Riptide, Shadowsun, Farsight, Brightsword, Shavastos, Torchstar, Arra'kon fire on the Wraiths - they deal 3 wounds (killing one) - all hail the 4++.

The Coldstars fair a little better and kill the Menhirs and take the Silent king down a few wounds.

Necrons:
Void Dragon goes to sit on the objective nearest the breachers. Nighbringer hangs around to help kill the Coldstars. Wraiths who were going towards Arra'kon turn back on themselves towards the Coldstars in order to prevent the Silent King from taking the overwatch.

C'Tan powers butter up the Coldstars and deal some wounds to the Riptide. 2 Doomstalkers fire at Shadowsun but she survives with a few wounds. 2 Coldstars die in the shooting phase to the Silent King and a Doomstalker, then the third is killed in the Fight Phase.

Third Round - 36 (10 OBJ + 3 PT + 3 EoAF) vs 36 (10 OBJ + 9 ASS + 2 PtV)

Forth Round:

The Eight move up on the Wraiths on the middle objective, Shadowsun moves around them to fourth table quarter. Breachers successfully advance into the Void Dragon's Objective with Bravestorm a little behind. Riptide moves towards middle of the board.

The gang fails to kill the Wraiths again, only killing another + wounding a second. Shadowsun and Riptide shoot a Doomstalker to wound it further, do a few wounds but fail to kill. Breachers knock a few wounds off of Void Dragon.

Farsight, Brightsword, Torchstar, Shavastos charge the Wraiths, but only kill the injured one due to movement preventing most of them from engaging the second however they hold the middle of the board.

Necrons:

Surviving Wraith falls back outside of wholly within the middle objective.

Nightbringer rocks up on the middle of the board and with a CP unleashes three C'TAN Power, kills a couple of drones and Shavastos, injures Farsight, Brightsword and Shadowsun. Silent King and Doomstalker move towards the middle of the board. Four man wraiths move towards Arra'kon on his objective.

Void Dragon kills one more Breacher and does some more wounds to the Riptide.

Doomstalker unloads on the commanders before the Nightbringer charges in, Brightsword and his drones are killed in the shooting phase. Shadows sits in the objective with 1 wound.

Nightbriger kills Farsight, Shavastos before consolidating into Torchstar who memulously deals three wounds to it in the fight phase, leaving the Nightbringer on 1 after overwatch and Arra'kon AFP shooting at it. Meanwhile Void Dragon fails his charge on the breachers owing to the tall wall in between them.

Forth Round: 52 (10 OBJ + 3 PT + 3 EOAF) vs 42 (5 OBJ + 3 ASS)

I hold four objectives with my survivors and have amassed some CP after not spending much and having accumulated it thanks to one of The Eight's abilities.

Shadowsun goes toward the wounded Doomstalker, Torchstar falls back, Bravestorm, his and Ovesa's drone make towards the void dragon. I try everything including the 3CP Orbital Ion beam to kill the Nightbringer but fail. Shadowsun kills a Doomstalker, Void dragon is injured.

Charge phase; charge the Void Dragon with Bravestorm and the drones, and the Riptide had Nova'd to move 2D6 in the charge phase and was able to get whole within the middle objective. After the fight phase the drones protected Bravestorm and the Void Dragon was left on 2 wounds.

Fifth Round 76 (15 OBJ + 3 PT + 3 EOAF +3 BID) vs 42 (FOLDS)

My opponent folds as even with 15 from WWS he only held one objective +5, had maxed out ASS, and even if he had killed all my units would only have being able to get 8 more points from PtV which would have left him on 70 points.


A funny game as I only killed 1 unit. It worked in my favour to use up 2 turns doing nothing and keeping the best part of a 1000 points of his army occupied in a corner because of a triple Coldstar threat and almost a thousands points lurking in deepstrike. One doesn't want to be exposed to a triple Coldstar with a load of the Eight dropping in right behind them.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/30 14:28:08


Post by: bullyboy


So, I have bought myself a starpulse cadre and start collecting box for 2021. Plan to go FSE as it would have been my choice anyway. Apart from dropping the ethereal, where to next?
Do I need to buy separate commander kits, or do crisis suits make commanders too?
As for Farsight, not buying resin so I assume a conversion should be easy enough from commander kit.
Hesitant to buy codex, but doesn't look like Tau will ve out for awhile.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/30 17:04:03


Post by: greatbigtree


While I don’t have it (yet), the PA Greater Good adds a lot of goodies to the Tau arsenal.

I make *my* commanders out of regular Crisis suits and give them a fancy paint job for Irridium armour.

FSE’s big schtick is piling on the Commanders in small detachments. My (limited to 9th edition) experience is that troops are very important, I tend to max out a Battalion with 6x 5man FW Squads at 1500 points. With Fireblades, the warriors put out substantial firepower.

Having a small swarm of drones to follow each commander will be good, to use saviour protocols with. Maybe 6 each?

Not sure of the exact points, but something like 3x the following as a base...

Patrol
2x Commanders
2x 5 FW
2x 5 Drones (keeps blast from benefitting due to size

A patrol like this fits inside 500 points, with loaded Commanders. Exact loadouts might need to fudge around to fit, but yeah, I’d probably start there for FSE.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/30 18:58:56


Post by: bullyboy


Is Farsight a "must take" for FSE?
I figure right now I can go 5x crisis suits and use 6th as a commander (making 2 in the detachment), maybe making the suits vet (I do have the PA book).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/30 19:44:38


Post by: greatbigtree


Well, not required. But the 2nd thing FSE does is give you access to Farsight, a melee Commander, and the fusion blades, for another melee Commander.

Not sure of the utility there, but it is a unique option / strategy that only FSE can pull off.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/30 21:30:12


Post by: Sterling191


 bullyboy wrote:
Is Farsight a "must take" for FSE?


In general, no. The double Mont'Ka is nice, but you sacrifice all of the shooting of a Commander tier battlesuit, which is a lot. He opens up some routes which can be surprising for Tau (bumrushing somebody who thinks that Tau auto-lose if you put a single high mobility melee unit on the table with three melee commanders plus a gaggle of Crisis Bodyguards is always worth it for laughs), but he's nowhere near an auto-take.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/31 17:33:31


Post by: bullyboy


Dare I even ask about The Eight? Seem interesting in concept.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2020/12/31 21:16:59


Post by: Sterling191


It's a hugely fun narrative device, but mechanically on the table it's a nightmare to keep track of unless you explicitly and clearly build each member of the team to their specific loadout (which are frankly not too efficacious either).

Unfortunately, to get them on the table is such a huge tax to pay. Because of the 9th detachment rules you're not only giving up all your relics, but more than half of your CP and only have 750 points left to fill out your army.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 04:39:34


Post by: bullyboy


Ouch, just looking at it, yeah...so many CPs just to field it, then you need another detachment to get some Troops into the game. Shame because what I have/ordered would make the 8 fit rather well.

OK, so, looking at what I have for FSE currently (starpulse cadre and start collecting), and a plan to move forward.

1 Commander - I assume a Coldstar is a pretty decent investment?
1 Commander (from the crisis suits) - iridium armour for this fellow? Does iridium armour have a separate piece or is it just painted differently?
5 crisis suits - spend 2CP to make vets - really don't know how to equip these guys
4x5 breachers, is it worth it to add Guardian drone for just 5 breachers? I figured if in units of 10 it might be worth it, not sure with 5.
2x5 pathfinders. Ion rifles worth the upgrade?
Broadside - probably a railgun (will get a second)
Piranha - will add a couple more.

Will probably add a second detachment for 2 more commanders, and I think I want to add fireblades to one at least.
best addition to what I have? another start collecting?



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 05:57:59


Post by: Sterling191


The iridium armor is another chest bit in the XV8 kit (it has an extended neckplate and broader breastplate).

A Veteran Crisis Suit bomb is pretty much an auto-take in an Enclave detachment (you're going to want to pay the few extra points per model to make them Bodyguards if you can). Loadout wise I'm personally partial to the twin CiBs + ATS, but there are arguments for Triple CIB or Missiles.

Pathfinders are sadly just waiting to die. T3/5+ isnt a platform that can deliver special weapons.

I'm personally not a fan of the Guardian drone (mostly because it takes the place of another Shield drone), but remember its effect is not restricted to a single Fire Warrior team.

The old Start Collecting is easily the best bang for your buck in terms of getting a Tau force off the ground. A full 10-man fire warrior team, a 3-pack of XV8s and a character (that can easily be converted into a Fireblade) for just a smidge more than an XV8 kit is solid gold.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 11:19:58


Post by: carldooley


take a trio of Stormsurges and a patrol with Shadowsun. It can be any sept as Shadowsun can be in literally any sept, keep the stormsurges castled around Shadowsun's 6+++ drone so your opponent has no LOS to it and your stormsurges can all benefit from its FNP.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 15:13:01


Post by: bullyboy


Ok, so a single guardian drone might be worth it if you have 2 5 man breacher teams close by.
I guess I don't understand adding drones to units that will die to a stiff breeze anyway. 5++ only matters if hit by AP2 and who is wasting that on Tau infantry?
Also, multiple small drone units just gives up secondaries, right? But I guess if taking piranhas or devilfish, that's par for the course.
Super new to Tau so not grasping the benefits of small drone units yet.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 15:19:27


Post by: carldooley


 bullyboy wrote:
Ok, so a single guardian drone might be worth it if you have 2 5 man breacher teams close by.
I guess I don't understand adding drones to units that will die to a stiff breeze anyway. 5++ only matters if hit by AP2 and who is wasting that on Tau infantry?
Also, multiple small drone units just gives up secondaries, right? But I guess if taking piranhas or devilfish, that's par for the course.
Super new to Tau so not grasping the benefits of small drone units yet.


While small drone units may give up KPs, it can also lead to overkills and errors in targeting when your opponent fails to realize that each drone in that swarm is its own unit. Is that D-baggery? Possibly, but it also can lead to more survival among your drones, which allows you to use Drone protocols as they are intended to be used. (And most secondary objectives have a cap, so your opponent can only reap so much benefit for killing so many units of drones.

Oh, to answer your question as to why you would 'include drones in a unit that will die to a stiff breeze anyway': If you take a Gun Drone and a Marker Drone as drones in a Strike Team for instance, each becomes its own unit after deployment. And like an old IG Infantry Platoon, each part counts as a troop (so each drone has Objective Secured) unless that was erratad somewhere. As much as we Tau players may hate CC, when our opponent realizes that there are 5 troop units on an objective, they may not bother going for that objective. And if your opponent tries to use "Cut Them Down', ask how many units it can target (Hint: 1).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 15:52:08


Post by: bullyboy


How come the 2 drones are separate units? Wouldn't they be a single unit of 2 drones, regardless of type?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 16:01:15


Post by: carldooley


 bullyboy wrote:
How come the 2 drones are separate units? Wouldn't they be a single unit of 2 drones, regardless of type?


erm yes, but the point stands. how many Gun Drone units would you like to field? How much overkill or failed target priority is your opponent willing to put up with? With enough abuse, I'd love to see us go back to templates.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/01 16:25:27


Post by: bullyboy


 carldooley wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
How come the 2 drones are separate units? Wouldn't they be a single unit of 2 drones, regardless of type?


erm yes, but the point stands. how many Gun Drone units would you like to field? How much overkill or failed target priority is your opponent willing to put up with? With enough abuse, I'd love to see us go back to templates.


No, I get it, I was just trying to understand why you said each would be a separate unit. Makes sense for playing MSU to flood the table with targets for an opponent which can lead to overkill.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/03 01:03:14


Post by: bullyboy


I know it's a beta, but can't figure out how you add drones to units in the 40K army builder app. Guessing it's just a bug?

Still torn between going The Eight plus support (for pure fun games) or just a generic Farsight Enclave force. One major bonus about the Eight is the decreased need to obtain cyclic ion blasters and airburst fragmentation launchers, and that my current collection matches up really well.
Downside about The Eight is that the suit loadouts are not exactly something you'd use typically, and I'm not really into wanting to magnetize.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/03 01:27:46


Post by: Chenko_chenko


 bullyboy wrote:
I know it's a beta, but can't figure out how you add drones to units in the 40K army builder app. Guessing it's just a bug?

Still torn between going The Eight plus support (for pure fun games) or just a generic Farsight Enclave force. One major bonus about the Eight is the decreased need to obtain cyclic ion blasters and airburst fragmentation launchers, and that my current collection matches up really well.
Downside about The Eight is that the suit loadouts are not exactly something you'd use typically, and I'm not really into wanting to magnetize.


Use Battlescribe, https://battlescribe.net/?tab=news


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/03 02:30:27


Post by: bullyboy


Chenko_chenko wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
I know it's a beta, but can't figure out how you add drones to units in the 40K army builder app. Guessing it's just a bug?

Still torn between going The Eight plus support (for pure fun games) or just a generic Farsight Enclave force. One major bonus about the Eight is the decreased need to obtain cyclic ion blasters and airburst fragmentation launchers, and that my current collection matches up really well.
Downside about The Eight is that the suit loadouts are not exactly something you'd use typically, and I'm not really into wanting to magnetize.


Use Battlescribe, https://battlescribe.net/?tab=news


not a fan of battlescribe at all. GW one is a little more user friendly for a first timer with non paper lists, but has some bugs to work out. Thanks for the link though.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/03 15:36:10


Post by: bullyboy


Talking CP, it looks like my Tau list will be very thirsty with pre-game CP which leaves me with very little in game CP (not good)

2CP for additional Patrol to gain access to more Commanders
2CP for 5 vet crisis bodyguards
3CP for relics (fusion blades (on Coldstar commander), Supernova launcher (on crisis commander), Reactive Countermeasures (bodyguard iridium suit).

Starting with 5CP sounds like a terrible idea, so I'm thinking I should drop one of the above (either fusion blades or supernova launcher). I'll probably drop the supernova, since it's a variable shot weapon although good vs marines. I just want to keep some close combat options as I expect it is inevitable in 9th. That means I will at least start with 7CP.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 16:38:23


Post by: Sazzlefrats


 bullyboy wrote:
Talking CP, it looks like my Tau list will be very thirsty with pre-game CP which leaves me with very little in game CP (not good)

2CP for additional Patrol to gain access to more Commanders
2CP for 5 vet crisis bodyguards
3CP for relics (fusion blades (on Coldstar commander), Supernova launcher (on crisis commander), Reactive Countermeasures (bodyguard iridium suit).

Starting with 5CP sounds like a terrible idea, so I'm thinking I should drop one of the above (either fusion blades or supernova launcher). I'll probably drop the supernova, since it's a variable shot weapon although good vs marines. I just want to keep some close combat options as I expect it is inevitable in 9th. That means I will at least start with 7CP.


Probably toss fusion blades before super nova launcher. There's little incentive to make tau mellee orientated. Plus you got the mortal wound mellee statagem already if things go south.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 17:10:56


Post by: carldooley


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Talking CP, it looks like my Tau list will be very thirsty with pre-game CP which leaves me with very little in game CP (not good)

2CP for additional Patrol to gain access to more Commanders
2CP for 5 vet crisis bodyguards
3CP for relics (fusion blades (on Coldstar commander), Supernova launcher (on crisis commander), Reactive Countermeasures (bodyguard iridium suit).

Starting with 5CP sounds like a terrible idea, so I'm thinking I should drop one of the above (either fusion blades or supernova launcher). I'll probably drop the supernova, since it's a variable shot weapon although good vs marines. I just want to keep some close combat options as I expect it is inevitable in 9th. That means I will at least start with 7CP.


Probably toss fusion blades before super nova launcher. There's little incentive to make tau mellee orientated. Plus you got the mortal wound mellee statagem already if things go south.


Ya'all are aware that ATS works in melee as well, yes?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 18:19:14


Post by: bullyboy


 carldooley wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Talking CP, it looks like my Tau list will be very thirsty with pre-game CP which leaves me with very little in game CP (not good)

2CP for additional Patrol to gain access to more Commanders
2CP for 5 vet crisis bodyguards
3CP for relics (fusion blades (on Coldstar commander), Supernova launcher (on crisis commander), Reactive Countermeasures (bodyguard iridium suit).

Starting with 5CP sounds like a terrible idea, so I'm thinking I should drop one of the above (either fusion blades or supernova launcher). I'll probably drop the supernova, since it's a variable shot weapon although good vs marines. I just want to keep some close combat options as I expect it is inevitable in 9th. That means I will at least start with 7CP.


Probably toss fusion blades before super nova launcher. There's little incentive to make tau mellee orientated. Plus you got the mortal wound mellee statagem already if things go south.


Ya'all are aware that ATS works in melee as well, yes?


was not aware of that, but is hugely satisfying to know. Farsight crisis bodyguards with majority ATS migh just be a solid for me.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 21:59:46


Post by: greatbigtree


I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.

Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 22:06:51


Post by: Sterling191


 greatbigtree wrote:
I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.


S5 AP1 may not sound like much, but when you're rerolling all hits and wounds, plus doing mortals on the charge, they can do some not inconsiderable work. There's a reason you pay the smidgeon of points to upgrade from Crisis Suits to Crisis Bodyguards.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 22:13:46


Post by: Ice_can


 greatbigtree wrote:
I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.

Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.

Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 22:36:40


Post by: greatbigtree


Ah, I don’t have access to PA:GG, and I assume the Veteran Bodyguard thing is in there?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/05 22:44:10


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Ice_can wrote:
 greatbigtree wrote:
I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.

Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.

Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.


Fusion Blades might look cool, but its just two swings with a 66% chance to hit.

[Thumb - 066ed370dd0c5bdb8418f9613d7072c7_786.jpg]


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/06 04:40:18


Post by: bullyboy


Sterling191 wrote:
 greatbigtree wrote:
I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.


S5 AP1 may not sound like much, but when you're rerolling all hits and wounds, plus doing mortals on the charge, they can do some not inconsiderable work. There's a reason you pay the smidgeon of points to upgrade from Crisis Suits to Crisis Bodyguards.


That's the thing though, both of the above cost CP. From my initial perusing of the rules for Tau and their units, they seem very CP hungry to run well (especially FSE), but you're already dumping a bunch in pregame CPs (multiple detachments, veteran crisis team, relics/prototype systems).

I want to run my version of Tau aggressively, and I do expect at some point combat will be inevitable. Therefore, I think I need farsight himself plus a decent bodyguard in the list.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/06 04:47:50


Post by: Sterling191


 bullyboy wrote:

That's the thing though, both of the above cost CP. From my initial perusing of the rules for Tau and their units, they seem very CP hungry to run well (especially FSE), but you're already dumping a bunch in pregame CPs (multiple detachments, veteran crisis team, relics/prototype systems).

I want to run my version of Tau aggressively, and I do expect at some point combat will be inevitable. Therefore, I think I need farsight himself plus a decent bodyguard in the list.


It's the nature of the beast. Enclaves especially rely on their strats to make up the army's inherent flaws.

Farsight *can* work, but only 4 attacks at d3 damage means you need to pick your targets carefully. Him with a fusion blade Coldstar and a vet cadre are fun to smash people with (and do lean into the style of play that 9th heavily incentivizes), but there's no margin for error. Scrag the drop and charge, and you're toasted.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/06 05:02:58


Post by: bullyboy


Sterling191 wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:

That's the thing though, both of the above cost CP. From my initial perusing of the rules for Tau and their units, they seem very CP hungry to run well (especially FSE), but you're already dumping a bunch in pregame CPs (multiple detachments, veteran crisis team, relics/prototype systems).

I want to run my version of Tau aggressively, and I do expect at some point combat will be inevitable. Therefore, I think I need farsight himself plus a decent bodyguard in the list.


It's the nature of the beast. Enclaves especially rely on their strats to make up the army's inherent flaws.

Farsight *can* work, but only 4 attacks at d3 damage means you need to pick your targets carefully. Him with a fusion blade Coldstart and a vet cadre are fun to smash people with (and do lean into the style of play that 9th heavily incentivizes), but there's no margin for error. Scrag the drop and charge, and you're toasted.


I'm building this for my local play anyway, not looking for super competitive so will probably lean into the trio mentioned above.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/06 11:13:37


Post by: Ice_can


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 greatbigtree wrote:
I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.

Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.

Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.


Fusion Blades might look cool, but its just two swings with a 66% chance to hit.


I was referring to vetren crisis body guards with Advance targeting, i would agree fusion blades aren't good but that was not what the post was about in anyway.

It was about stacking Farsight and a vetran boadyguard unit as about the most viable beatstick Tau have. It's not ideal but it can throw a number of people off when you play your army 100% counter to how they expect.

Fundamentally the codex isn't compatible with 9th but it doesn't seem like the new one is being released soon so we have to do what we can with the codex we have.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/06 18:24:12


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Ice_can wrote:
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 greatbigtree wrote:
I was aware, yes... but AP -1 is far from a Beat-Stick stat in melee.

Lots of fun on Missile Pods, though. I have found it gives them a real bite.

Stack it on vet body crusis suits and it's about the only viable CC unit we have besides Farsight himself and 9th really does need a viable CC unit for objectives.


Fusion Blades might look cool, but its just two swings with a 66% chance to hit.


I was referring to vetren crisis body guards with Advance targeting, i would agree fusion blades aren't good but that was not what the post was about in anyway.

It was about stacking Farsight and a vetran boadyguard unit as about the most viable beatstick Tau have. It's not ideal but it can throw a number of people off when you play your army 100% counter to how they expect.

Fundamentally the codex isn't compatible with 9th but it doesn't seem like the new one is being released soon so we have to do what we can with the codex we have.


Yeah thats a decent beatstick if you get forced into it (defensively in mellee its a serious CP hog, so be careful).If you use Shadowsun, her guardian drone is not sept or model type locked, so free 6+ FNP.

I was looking at something worse for fun, a greater knarloc (or 3) + kroot shaper, + 3dice charge stratagem. Considering the horrible armor saves... its not anything more than a weak glass cannon, and really hard to get the OOP model anyhow.

I kinda like 4 hammerheads (1 is longstrike) with shadowsuns guardian drone hidden behind one and out of los. 6+ FNP tanks. Its such a weak trick and easily countered if your opponent sees what you are doing, but if you survive turn 1. Also need to deploy your hammerheads behind a ruined wall (-1 to be hit) and then you can really block los to your cowering drone. It can tank in mellee a little bit.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 15:28:14


Post by: bullyboy


well, in new FAQs it looks like The Eight lost their big CP tax to take them.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 15:41:51


Post by: Sterling191


And Shadowsun finally got Supreme Commander.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 17:22:15


Post by: bullyboy


some points changes too. Drones up to 20pts (doesn't differentiate). Piranhas down to 43pts. Devilfish down to 70pts.
Since drone cost isn't included in commander data sheets, they are now free upgrades? Really weird.

This thing is all over the place.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 17:25:55


Post by: Ice_can


 bullyboy wrote:
some points changes too. Drones up to 20pts (doesn't differentiate). Piranhas down to 43pts. Devilfish down to 70pts.
Since drone cost isn't included in commander data sheets, they are now free upgrades? Really weird.

This thing is all over the place.

Damn rip drones


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 17:41:22


Post by: Sterling191


Ice_can wrote:

Damn rip drones


Barring an FAQ, it means drones are back in a big way. As-written (depending on your interpretation, which is why the FAQ is entirely needed), every unit that can take drones as add-ons either cannot take them, or gets to do it for free.

Not to say its not a hellacious fuckup, and that 20 point drones when its eventually fixed wont mean that drones are priced to the point of absolute uselessness, but for now, enjoy your free drones.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 18:03:04


Post by: bullyboy


Sterling191 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:

Damn rip drones


Barring an FAQ, it means drones are back in a big way. As-written (depending on your interpretation, which is why the FAQ is entirely needed), every unit that can take drones as add-ons either cannot take them, or gets to do it for free.

Not to say its not a hellacious fuckup, and that 20 point drones when its eventually fixed wont mean that drones are priced to the point of absolute uselessness, but for now, enjoy your free drones.


Yeah, it's a huge cluster-feth currently, which sucks as I'm in that process of planning and buying.

All unit drones look to be free add ons, currently, which I cannot believe is correct.
Separate drone units are expensive as hell and make no sense (gun and marker up 100%)

High Outburst cannon on coldstar is now free too, but you could replace it for a regular burst cannon for +8pts, lol.




T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 18:07:43


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


Quickly going through my list I found these point changes:

XV8 Commander +10
XV85 Commander +10
XV8 Battlesuit -5

Smart Missile Systems seem to have dropped in points for most units which also gave me these point changes:

Hammerhead -15
Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle -20
Broadside w/ High Yield Missile Pod -15
Devilfish -23

All tactical drones being 20 points is pretty brutal. That is going to hurt T'au significantly.

*Edit* If the whole drone add-ons are free(which is how it is written) I think this will be a boost to drones, but I am basing my opinion of the price jump on my other opinion that they did not do that intentionally. Hopefully I am wrong about that, though.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 18:26:54


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Drones are located lower down
Gun Drones are 10
Sheild Drones are 15

but drone units are 20pts each, so RIP units of drones


And it does not appear to me that drones are baked into the cost of vehicles.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/07 18:35:18


Post by: bullyboy


Huh, I see that now. Definitely encourages more attached drones than separate units, just because of points.
Yep, it looks like things like devilfish and piranha will have to add the drone cost from the bottom. Would be nice if the pdf actually told you to do that, lol.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/08 01:00:19


Post by: Zande4


Why is the Riptide now base 261 points from 245 but Plasa Rifles don't appear to be an option? They were 16 points, are they included by default now?

SMS and Fusion Rifles have gone from 30 to 14 points, do these replace the 16 points Plasma Rifles, as in SMS and Fusion is cheaper or taken in addition to making it 275 total?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/08 09:36:45


Post by: kirotheavenger


If the cost isn't listed it means it's free (or rather baked into the base cost of the unit).
Costs for other options are increases from there.

So the reason a Riptide has gone up 16pts is because the plasma rifles are now free and baked into the cost.
Similarly, the reason the fusion rifles have gone down 16pts is because they're now an upgrade on top, rather than an exchange.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/08 16:27:26


Post by: Sazzlefrats


Maybe they really do have drones baked into the cost of the vehicles.... if thats the case, why are burst cannons +8pts? They have always been che


I'm not trusting my re-read about the baked in cost. We're frelled


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/08 22:34:18


Post by: Ice_can


 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Maybe they really do have drones baked into the cost of the vehicles.... if thats the case, why are burst cannons +8pts? They have always been che


I'm not trusting my re-read about the baked in cost. We're frelled

I don't think thry are either

Though at this point I'm also pissed that drones added to units don't count for WWSWF but combat squads and custodes going lone wolf counts aslong as 1 of them survive.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/09 15:14:27


Post by: bullyboy


Going back the The Eight (I know, I know), if I end up using Torchstar, bravestorm and shavastos as a separate crisis team in a regular army (so not characters), it doesn't seem like a terrible use of points.

3 crisis;
plasma, flamer, ATS
plasma, flamer, ATS
2 flamers, ATS
2 drones

146pts total. Decent against light infantry I suppose.

Just not really wanting to magnetize, and think that starting out with The Eight would be a fairly quick way for me to get the army on the table, but then also thinking about how to utilize the sub optimal builds in the future.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/09 20:08:45


Post by: Tyel


I think ATS for AP-3 already feels a bit like overkill. Its probably not the worst thing if you encountering a lot of Marines, but I don't think its optimal. I think you'd prefer another plasma or flamer instead.

I think triple flamer - or 2*flamer/ATS has legs. Not exactly tournament winning - but you should get a decent number of hits easily enough as well as decent overwatch/Greater Good. At 40 points a model its not breaking the bank.

Also think triple plasma is respectable damagewise. Compared with say immortals you have a comparable number of shots at a higher point of S and AP (although 6" less range). Although I think the base BS4+, vulnerability to 3/D6 damage weapons and negligible assault capability hurts more than the soft stats of 8" move, fly and deep strike. There are some buffs you can apply to boost this - but so can the Necron player.

Crisis loadsouts are one of the big "how WYSIWIG do you want to be" kits. I'd say they are what you want them to be and if people kick off they are probably bad people.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/01/10 16:53:47


Post by: Yaktan


Yeah, with the latest points, crisis suits feel decent, though I have not had a chance to test them out; I was just list building so far.

I came up with a list that might have a chance, basically my old standby of Shadowsun+2 Ghostkeels+Stealth suits to start out mid-field, with a couple units of fire warriors and breachers for bodies, and then three squads of crisis suits with different loadouts to drop in, each bringing lots of gun drones. With the assault-focused meta to grab midfield, a blob of Tau sept firepower seems like a decent option--charge me and I get a free shooting phase!


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/02/21 19:45:39


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


Has anyone got in any games since the point changes? Have Crisis Suits proven effective with the points drop?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/02/22 19:50:26


Post by: grouchoben


I've been running FSE for a while on TTS, and had two games since the changes.

The biggest impact is Mont'ka, and that's why Farsight is in most of my lists.

I've run Gatling burst cannons, AFPs, CIB and flamers. I think I prefer the cheaper options - flamers or AFPs who can avoid direct fire when they drop down really well.

Nu Remoras are pretty good too for 60pts in FSE, they can drop lots of mortal wounds in the right matchups.

RIP Y'vahras.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/03/08 01:04:33


Post by: bullyboy


So I'm in the process of building my 5 vet crisis bodyguards for FSE. Each will have 1 ATS system, one will have an airburst launcher and iridium suit, others have a missile pod. Trying to decide on 3rd weapon. A suit with missile and ATS is already 50pts, so not sure how much more I should invest in each one. Keep it cheap with a flamer, or double down with another missile pod? The airbust iridium suit will probably just get a flamer or support system since he will be taking fire.
Downside about flamers is that it seems a waste on a BS3+ unit. Maybe burst cannin better.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/03/11 05:25:56


Post by: carldooley


 bullyboy wrote:
So I'm in the process of building my 5 vet crisis bodyguards for FSE. Each will have 1 ATS system, one will have an airburst launcher and iridium suit, others have a missile pod. Trying to decide on 3rd weapon. A suit with missile and ATS is already 50pts, so not sure how much more I should invest in each one. Keep it cheap with a flamer, or double down with another missile pod? The airbust iridium suit will probably just get a flamer or support system since he will be taking fire.
Downside about flamers is that it seems a waste on a BS3+ unit. Maybe burst cannin better.


give em all ATS, AFP, & Missile Pods.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/03/14 16:43:30


Post by: grouchoben


If you're going vet then flamers are a waste as you say. They seem to work great in 3xflamer squads, 3 or 5-suit teams. Probably one of the strongest units Tau have right now for 9e. 2frag+ATS is an option too, with the relic giving you some really nice support fire (Richard Siegler was a fan of this set up when he was playing FSE at the start of 9e.)

I quite like 3 vets with ATS and gatling burst too for some spikey cheap goodness.

Basically, if there was one unit in the whole game you were gonna break out the magnets for, it would be Crisis Suits...


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/04/04 19:59:38


Post by: bullyboy


OK, so I finally finished building my 2000pts Tau list. It's not perfect by any means, but barring a few drones (recon drone etc), it uses every model I own which is a huge plus for starting out.

Farsight Enclaves Battalion

Commander Farsight
Coldstar Commander, 3 Fusion, shield generator (fusion blades, aggressive tactician)
2 shield drones

5 Breachers, marker drone, guardian drone
5 Breachers
5 Breachers, marker drone, guardian drone
5 Breachers
Devilfish
Devilfish

Riptide, Ion Cannon, 2 fusion, drone controller, EWO
2 Shielded missile drones
6 Crisis Bodyguards
Iridium Suit, airburst, ATS, burstcannon (ECM expermental)
2 Fusion, drone controlller
CIB, missile pod, ATS
CIB, missile pod, ATS
Missile pod, burst cannon, ATS
Missile pod, burst cannon, ATS
10 drones, 6 shield, 4 marker

2 Pirahnas, fusion
5 pathfinders, 1 rail rifle
5 pathfinders, 1 rail rifle

Broadside, 2 HYMP, SMS, ATS, seeker missile
2 shield drones

I will probably drop the rail rifles tbh, look cool but not sure I'll use them.
Obviously I'm not going to just sit back with this list, but not sure where I'd start to make a few cuts in the future. I guess it will probably do until we see a new codex.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/04/30 23:18:55


Post by: Amaurosis


Hi there, fellow Tau players!

I posted a list in the army list section and quickly realized my understanding of Tau is not good enough for actually posting a list, yet.

As I am new to Tau and never had to play against or with them, some odd ideas circle in my head.

I already read this thread until here, so I got a fair idea of what is considered a "best chance" to give the opponents a good fight (and finally loose in the end anyway ^^).

I also read / heard on Youtube about using brecher teams (incl. 5++ drone) in devilfish - maybe accompanied by a Ethereal (Leadership, 6+++) - to capture objectives.
But when I calculate the points for this, you end up paying more than 200p.
And only to get a team on an objective during your 2nd turn.

Therefore I thought about using 5 modell units of Stealth Battlesuits for capturing those objectives instead of said breacher teams.
pros:
T4
3+ armor save
-1 to hit
not blast vulnerable if taken as 5 model unit
same amount of wounds
can occupy objective from turn 1 on regardless who starts
cheaper than the breacher/devilfish setup (especially if accompanied by Ethereal)
fewer models = not as vulnerable to morale tests (unless Ethereal along breachers)
-1 Ap possible and still cheaper
4++ possible (but expensive!)

cons:
no cheap 5++
vulnerable to damage 2+ at less models
no obsec
less models for determing objective against non obsec units
no dakka from devilfish
breacher = more dakka at close range/ overwatch
no grenades
less strategem options

Did I forget anything?

This way the following lists have come to my mind (after some corrections thanks to replies on my previously posted army list *ehem*):


First option = pure Farsight Enclave:
Spoiler:

+++ Tau 2000 Stealth Farsight (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [100 PL, 9CP, 1,993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (T'au Empire) ++

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Sept Choice: Farsight Enclaves

+ Stratagems +

Emergency Dispensation (2 Relics)



+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 6. Exemplar of the Mont'ka, Cross-linked stabiliser jets, 4x Fusion blaster, Talisman of Arthas Moloch, Warlord
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone: 2x Markerlight

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 3x Fusion blaster, Shield generator
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone: 2x Markerlight



+ Troops +

Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle, Pulse pistol
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Rifle:
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone

Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse carbine, Pulse pistol
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Carbine
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse carbine, Pulse pistol
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Carbine
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone



+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone:
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone:
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon


XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone:
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon


XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
. 2x Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Cyclic ion blaster
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Fusion blaster, Fusion collider, Fusion obliterator, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Shield generator



+ Fast Attack +

Tetras
. 2x Tetra Scout Speeder: 2x High intensity markerlight, 4x Pulse rifle



+ Heavy Support +

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
. Broadside Shas'vre: 2x High-yield missile pod, 2x Smart missile system, Advanced targeting system
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone:

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
. Broadside Shas'vre: 2x High-yield missile pod, 2x Smart missile system, Advanced targeting system
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone:

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
. Broadside Shas'vre: 2x High-yield missile pod, 2x Smart missile system, Advanced targeting system
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone:

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)



General concept:[/u]

1. take the center objectives via their Infiltrator ability with the Stealth Battle Suits .

2 hope to hold those objectives longer (2 rounds maybe?) than any Fire Warrior unit could, as now opponents hit me there as bad as I hit them with my BS4+ *grin*

3. Coldstar Commanders with crazy movement + Ghostkeel via Infiltrator take aim in first turn for tough things or units generally left in the back, forcing the opponent to divide his attention between Stealth Battle Suits on objectives and the hard hitting nuisance in his back.

4. both Coldstar Commanders have a certain protection for staying power: one 5++ ...the other has a 4++

5. Ghostkeel should have a certain resitance with his -1 to hit and 4++ to keep him alive for a round or two, too?

6. Crisis Battle Suits and the two Pulse Carbine Fire Warriors (really fearsome, I know...) move in as 2nd liners, giving support to the Stealth Battle Suits.

7. The Tetras and the Marker Drones distribute some marker and try to negate deep striking in inconvenient spots.

8. The Pulse Rifle Fire Warrior unit holds the objective in my deployment area.

9. The Broadsides do what they probably always do: stay back and give fire support.






Second option with 2 Patrols Tau / Custom:
Spoiler:


+++ 2000 Tau Tau>/ Custom Patrols Stealth (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [95 PL, [b]7CP, 1,993pts
] +++

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (T'au Empire) ++

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Sept Choice: T'au Sept

+ Stratagems +

Emergency Dispensation (2 Relics)



+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: Cross-linked stabiliser jets, 4x Fusion blaster, Strength of Belief (T'au Sept), Vectored manoeuvring thrusters, Warlord
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone: 2x Markerlight



+ Troops +

Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse carbine, Pulse pistol
. 6x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Carbine



+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon



+ Fast Attack +

Tetras
. 2x Tetra Scout Speeder: 2x High intensity markerlight, 4x Pulse rifle




++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (T'au Empire) ++


Sept Choice
. Custom Sept: Hardened Warheads, Turbo-jets



+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit: 3x Fusion blaster, Shield generator
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone: 2x Markerlight



+ Troops +

Strike Team
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Rifle:



+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis Bodyguards
. 6x Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Missile pod
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit: 2x Fusion blaster, Fusion collider, Fusion obliterator, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Shield generator



+ Heavy Support +

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
. Broadside Shas'ui: 2x High-yield missile pod, 2x Smart missile system, Advanced targeting system
. Broadside Shas'vre: 2x High-yield missile pod, 2x Smart missile system, Advanced targeting system
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
. Broadside Shas'ui: 2x High-yield missile pod, 2x Smart missile system, Advanced targeting system
. 2x MV7 Marker Drone

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




Same general concept as first option except:

- less CP

- Tau sept should help to discourage charges with weaker units .

- Tau sept commander has move after shoot and 5+++ (MW) instead of normal 5+++

- only 2 units of Stealth Batllesuit units

- Ghostkeel might go for objective instead of hunting heavies in opponents back, because only have 2 Stealth Battlesuit units

- Crisis Bodyguards x6 with 1 more Attack each/ +2 move and missiles instead of cyclic ion blaster to get full effect of custom sept

- one fewer Strike team





I have several questions concerning those proposed army lists and the codex in general:

1. What warlord trait are you preferring? Somehow none of them really convinces me.

2. Why are all those "reroll 1 to hit": Through Boldness Victory warlord trait, Cross-linked stabilzer jets, Aggressive Footing Farsight Abilty (kind of). Tau has at least two strategems which give markerlight counters along with all the drones etc, handing out counters as well. 1 counter = reroll "1 to hit", isn't it? So just bad codex design or any actual use?

3. How sensible is it to add drones to a strike/ breacher team, if it is not maxed out yet? Or do you only these drones if team is maxed or if you want to get a marker drone?

4. How many Markerlight shots does a Tau list need (especially marker drones)?

5. Should I remove the drones from the commanders, as they cannot keep up with them anyway?

6. Where are shield drones best added?

7. In case of above Crisis Bodyguards is it better to add third missle pod or improve AP by an additional -1 via Advanced targeting system to a total of -3?

8. Should the Stealth Battlesuits take the shield generator instead of the Advanced targeting system?

9. Another consideration due to skchsan hint is to exchange the Farsight Enclave of the first option through a custom sept upgunned/hardened warheads. I would have to kick one commander and add a 2nd Ghostkeel instead, though...but freeing points to some extent.



Maybe I should mention, that my buddy runs mostly Death Guard, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angel, Space Wolf, Genestealer Cult and Imperium. And a bit Sororitas ... and a bit Orcs...and a bit Eldar ...some Tyrannids....some AdMech too, I think ....no Drukhari so far, though. (that left me Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Necrons and now Tau as my 4th army )

Oh, and Tau caught me especially with its Battletech likeness, so I preferably use those Mech units and no Kroot or such.



Cheers,
Amaurosis

Edit: text wall gone


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/01 00:06:17


Post by: Azuza001


Amaurosis, might I suggest you edit your post and put the actual lists under spoiler tags? Right now your post is just a giant wall of txt and isn't going to get much support. It's kinda large and hard to read.

Having said that....

List 1 -

you can't give a prototype weapon system and a relic to the same model (your warlord). Prototype weapons take the place of a relic in the army.

Also with the firewarrior strike teams, Pulse carbines are not good. Either go Pulse rifles or take breachers, they will do more work. Myself I take 2 x 5 man breacher teams in devil fish. I dont give them any extra drones or anything. The idea is devil fish moves up for objective grabbing. If the fish dies the breachers get out and hold the objective, and the gun drones from the fish also help hold it.

Also keep in mind gun drones can only target the closest enemy unit and have bad balsitic skills. I take them when I want drones that "are a part of a vehicle" so when the vehicle dies the drones pop out to continue to hold objectives/ screen units, stuff like that. Otherwise marker drones / shield drones are better if your taking them.

Finally the broadsides, take a single squad of 3 and give them their prototype Rail guns. They work wonderful this way. As single units? I am not sold on their effectiveness.


List 2 -

It's a list, I can't say much about it. I will say I would rather personally have 3 missile pods at ap-2 then 2 at ap-3.


Consider this- your taking a LOT of Burst cannons and assault weapons in both lists. You hit on the missile pod upgrade through custom Sept in the 2nd list, but maybe take the custom Sept choices up-gunned if your going to use so many Burst cannon stealth suits? Up-gunned and hybridnized weapondry would give all those stealth suits 22" ap-1 Burst cannon, allowing them to stay further away from your opponent. Add in some crisis teams with 2 Burst and ats, your talking about some nice firepower here getting all those str 5 ap-2 attacks.

Or alternatively you could go farsight enclave with a team of crisis suits with double plasma guns and ats. A large squad (say 6) with farsight deep striking in with the veteran squad upgrade gives you the following....

Suits hitting on 3's, firing 24 str 6 ap-4 1dmg shots. At 12" your opponent counts as having 1 additional marker light (so free reroll 1's). Farsight comes in with them and uses command and control node for 1cp. This gives them reroll wounds. Now they hit on 3's rerolling 1's, at str 6 (so against most infantry wounding on 3's or most tanks wounding on 5's) rerolling wounds. Your high ap puts them almost garunteed to their invulnerable save if they have one (lots of tanks dont... byebye redemptor dread or predator tank!) And if you get stuck in cc each guy hits on 4's, wounding again most infantry on 3's, rerolling 1's to wound from farsight enclave, at ap-1 so they CAN fight basic enemy infantry well enough. I wouldn't throw them at a bladeguard vet squad though lol. Finally they can fall back if tagged and have farsight use Mon'Ka to be able to shoot after falling back and do it all again. You can use shield drones to protect them for a bit as well. Finally you can use stealth suit special beacon to deep strike them in close to your enemy if you want.

Point is there are a lot of tau tricks, but figuring out which one you want to go after is the important part. Tau really need to focus on 1 or 2 tricks in their lists. If you try to do too much your going to have problems.

Oh and yeah they still will probably lose against a serious competitive list. But you can really do some seriously funny tricks with them.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/01 10:24:24


Post by: Amaurosis


Azuza001 wrote:
Amaurosis, might I suggest you edit your post and put the actual lists under spoiler tags? Right now your post is just a giant wall of txt and isn't going to get much support. It's kinda large and hard to read.



Good advivce! Done. ^^


Azuza001 wrote:


you can't give a prototype weapon system and a relic to the same model (your warlord). Prototype weapons take the place of a relic in the army.



Too bad, it is the 2nd time battlescribe plays tricks on me (Tau does not seem to get the same attention as other armies there, too). Thank you for hinting that out.


Azuza001 wrote:


Myself I take 2 x 5 man breacher teams in devil fish. I dont give them any extra drones or anything. The idea is devil fish moves up for objective grabbing. If the fish dies the breachers get out and hold the objective, and the gun drones from the fish also help hold it.



Ok, this makes sense now! Will be my other option from now on to considerate, too.



So, here is my new list:

Spoiler:
+++ Tau 2000 Farsight Enclave (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [106 PL, 7CP, 1,999pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (T'au Empire) [106 PL, 7CP, 1,999pts] ++

Sept Choice: Farsight Enclaves

+ Stratagems +

Emergency Dispensation (2 Relics) [-3CP]

Veteran Cadre (4+ models) [-2CP]


+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [8 PL, 175pts]: 1. Precision of the Hunter, 3x Fusion blaster, Shield generator, Warlord

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [8 PL, 175pts]: 3x Fusion blaster, Shield generator


+ Troops +

Breacher Team [3 PL, 70pts]: MV36 Guardian Drone
. 4x Fire Warrior: 4x Photon grenades, 4x Pulse blaster
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster
. MV4 Shield Drone

Breacher Team [2 PL, 45pts]
. 4x Fire Warrior: 4x Photon grenades, 4x Pulse blaster
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse blaster

Strike Team [2 PL, 45pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Rifle: 4x Photon grenades, 4x Pulse pistol, 4x Pulse rifle

Strike Team [4 PL, 72pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 7x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Pistol + Pulse Rifle: 7x Photon grenades, 7x Pulse pistol, 7x Pulse rifle


+ Elites +

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [11 PL, 185pts]
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [11 PL, 185pts]
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'ui w/ Burst Cannon: Advanced targeting system
. Stealth Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, Burst cannon

XV8 Crisis Bodyguards [19 PL, 354pts]: Cross-linked stabiliser jets
. Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Plasma rifle
. Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Plasma rifle
. Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Plasma rifle
. Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Plasma rifle
. Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Plasma rifle
. Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Plasma rifle
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Fusion blaster, Fusion collider, Fusion obliterator, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Shield generator


+ Fast Attack +

Tetras [4 PL, 80pts]
. 2x Tetra Scout Speeder: 2x High intensity markerlight, 4x Pulse rifle

TX4 Piranhas [4 PL, 63pts]
. TX4 Piranha: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon


+ Heavy Support +

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [16 PL, 285pts]: Magna rail rifle
. Broadside Shas'ui: 2x Smart missile system, Heavy rail rifle, Velocity tracker
. Broadside Shas'ui: 2x Smart missile system, Heavy rail rifle, Velocity tracker
. Broadside Shas'vre: 2x Smart missile system, Heavy rail rifle, Velocity tracker
. 2x MV4 Shield Drone: 2x Shield generator


+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [5 PL, 90pts]
. 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)



genereal thoughts/ summary:

- crisis bodyguard team has BS3+ and rerolls 1 to hit/to wound with 36 shots S6 AP-3 D1, when deepstriking within 12"

- broadsides now have the magna rail rifles and hit those fliers on 3+ , who might try to close up on them fast.

- copied concept of devilfish with 2 breacher teams to "drop" on objective turn 2

- both Stealth Battlesuit teams (with or without Ghostkeel nearby.. = strategem to be removed?!) infiltrate on objective before battle starts

- Ghostkeel either infiltrate in back of opponent helping to destroy big targets or help capturing objective

- piranha might take place of one Stealth team to get on objective instead, leaving the Stealth Team other options instead of infiltrating on objective

- commanders do hard work in the back of opponent

- small strike team holds home objective

- larger strike team helps covering center (alternatively exchange it for 2nd piranha ??)

- not too many cp, but well, there is no way like the hard way!







But I will add another question to my former list of question (although Azuza001 answered some of them already) and quote myself due to my lazyness:

1. What warlord trait are you preferring? Somehow none of them really convinces me.

2. Why are all those "reroll 1 to hit": Through Boldness Victory warlord trait, Cross-linked stabilzer jets, Aggressive Footing Farsight Abilty (kind of). Tau has at least two strategems which give markerlight counters along with all the drones etc, handing out counters as well. 1 counter = reroll "1 to hit", isn't it? So just bad codex design or any actual use?

(3. How sensible is it to add drones to a strike/ breacher team, if it is not maxed out yet? Or do you only these drones if team is maxed or if you want to get a marker drone? = answered)

4. How many Markerlight shots does a Tau list need (especially marker drones)?

5. Should I remove the drones from the commanders, as they cannot keep up with them anyway?

6. Where are shield drones best added?

(7. In case of above Crisis Bodyguards is it better to add third missle pod or improve AP by an additional -1 via Advanced targeting system to a total of -3? = answered)

8. Should the Stealth Battlesuits take the shield generator instead of the Advanced targeting system?

9. In case not taking the Farsight Enclave, are 2CP worth taking a 2nd commander via an additinal patrol detachment? He is our most reliable and fastest hitter after all...


Cheers,
Amaurosis


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/01 13:18:14


Post by: Azuza001


1. Warlord trait depends on what your giving the trait to. I go with Exemplar of Mont'Ka on my coldstar commander normally. This gives him the ability to go 40", get within 6" of his target, and hit on 2's rerolling 1's for free. Since he is within 6" he also gets reroll 1's to wound due to farsight enclave. But thats my crisis suit army, my 3rd edition army's warlord typically gets Through unity, Devistation.

2. Think of them as ways to get reroll hits of 1 when marker lights are not available or on a model yet. Most of the time they are not needed but they are there when you need them. Also, things like "through boldness, victory" reroll all hits. So if your target has -1 to hit on them and your warlord is a crisis suit with 3 missile pods and an ats on it, well, rerolling 1's and 2's without needing marker lights is kinda nice. Gives you a missile turret basically that doesn't need backup support to hit. Aggressive footing I love because again it means my forces don't require marker lights to function, they just need to be 'DANGER CLOSE ' as I put it to the enemy lol.

4. There is no right answer here. Again your list will determine it as you play. Myself I run very few marker lights in both of my tau forces (Farsight and Sa'Cea Sept) for different reasons. Farsite I focus on making my army require as few as possible so I have a Cadre Fireblade in a Drone Port with a Pathfinder Team and give the Drone port 4 marker drones. This gives me 4 marker drones that hit on 2's using the fireblades BS, the fireblade himself has a 2+ to hit marker light, and the pathfinders give another 5 bs4+ marker lights to support. That's normally it because of the list. The only thing that needs the +1bs really badly are the 3 broadsides so I focus on getting 1 enemy unit to 5 lights a turn. Between those accurate hitting lights and the strats we have access to, it works out just fine normally. My Sa'Cea force runs more due to just the way things work. Again, Drone port + Cadre + pathfinders but I also run 3 skyrays. They each have 2 marker lights on them and a 3+BS so that's an extra 6 lights. Add in Sa'Cea has an additional way to put marker lights on enemy units and, well that force doesn't have issues with marker lights.

5. No, just because they can't keep up doesn't make them useless. They can still block for other suits (like the broadsides) or be used to zone out your backfield from enemy deep striking. And no one likes wasting their shots trying to kill 2 drones just sitting there doing nothing but zoning out an area lol.

6. Shield drones are best added in groups of 2. More than that taken in a squad and you can run into moral issues (why drones have to take moral is beyond me). Also it makes them harder to kill. I typically take 6 shield drones, 2 with the broadsides, 2 with 2 different 5 man firewarrior strike teams. I deploy them so they are also helping to protect the broadsides. I will be honest, I don't like taking drones typically myself. Only 2 units that HAVE to have them are riptides and broadsides. But otherwise you can just rely on buying more models. I mean a shield Drone is 15pts. Thats 90pts I am paying for to protect a 270 pt unit of broadsides that cost 80pts a guy.... at some point the cost out ways the benefits.

8. That's up to you. I typically run my stealth suits bare, 3 squads of 3, and the ghost keel when I run them. I run them for utility not for damage output. So it comes down to what you want them for. If you want them to actually kill then take ats. If you want them more survivable, shield generators. And if you want them to screen out a unit, well the Shield generator isn't a bad option there either but like I said it becomes a personal choice thing.

9. I only typically run 2 commanders in farsight. But I would say generally again it depends on how you run your force. I typically take a 2nd patrol anyways though. Phiranas are great utility units (don't take them in squads, moral will kill you!) And vespids are money all day long (though the models are horrible, I got my hands on some 3rd party techno wings and made some breachers into stand in vespids, looks great and plays really well). So I need fast attack slots. I will say I suggest getting your hands on a Cadre Fireblade. Makes those Pulse rifles get 3 shots at half range, has a 2+bs, and has a marker light. For 45 pts? Yeah thats one HQ that I always have.


Hope all of that helps some!


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/18 13:12:04


Post by: Spreelock


hey folks, i'm thinking about getting back to tau, i'm intrested about tau sept, and I know it's probably not as competitive as farsight enclaves, but it suits better for my play-style. So i'm looking for advice, in case I missed anything, my previous games were in 8th edition. List in spoiler;

Spoiler:

Tau sept battalion
-hq- commander shadowsun 135 (warlord)
-hq- cadre fireblade 45
-hq- ethereal (hover drone) 60
-troop- strike team (10, markerlight) 95
-troop- strike team (10) 90
-troop- strike team (10) 90
-elite- riptide (2x sms, relic: amplified ion accelerator, drone controller) 295
-elite- stealth team (3, burst cannons) 78
-elite- stealth team (3, burst cannons) 78
-elite- crisis team (9, 3x burst cannons each, relic: gatling burst cannons) 441
-fast- tactical drones (12, 6x marker, 6x gun) 120
-fast- tactical drones (12, 6x marker, 6x gun) 120
-heavy- hammerhead (ion cannon, 2x sms) 175
-heavy- hammerhead (ion cannon, 2x sms) 175
Total 1997 / 12cp (-1 for extra relic)


So, my plan is quite simple, the hammerheads secure backfield objectives and shoot, stealth teams infiltrate in midfield objectives, and the rest of the army cluster together. The shadowsun declares kayon twice, and that's essentially 2 rounds of hard hitting firepower.

Back in the 8 edition, I was able to shoot off dominus knight or mortarion in one round, fun times


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/18 14:31:35


Post by: Azuza001


My only suggestion would be to drop the strike teams down to 5 man teams instead of 10 men. So 6x 5 man teams vs 3x10. Also take the drones and buy them as upgrades for units rather as large blocks like that. It will make the drones cheaper, less likely to run to moral, and harder for your opponent to deal with thanks to them being small 2 Drone squads instead of big blobs.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/21 12:46:31


Post by: bullyboy


Yeah, you have your drones points wrong. If taken as a separate unit they cost 20pts per drone, not 10pts. Disperse them with your units as upgrades and the cost then drops to 10pts.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/23 22:37:12


Post by: bullyboy


OK, I've managed to knock out 1850pts of Tau painted up in the last 6 weeks or so (Farsight), but I'm wondering what you suggest I finish it with from my remaining collection for a possible 2000pt game next week.

Current list..

Farsight
Coldstar commander, 3 fusion and shield generator (Fusion Blades, Aggressive Tactician)

5 Breachers, marker drone, guardian drone
5 Breachers
Devilfish
5 Breachers, marker drone, guardian drone
5 Breachers
Devilfish

3 Stealthsuits, ATS, 2 marker drones (could lose ATS)
Riptide, ion cannon, 2 fusion, drone controller, early warning override, 2 shielded missile drones
5 Crisis bodyguards w 10 shield drones attached
AFP, burst cannon, ATS, Iridium armour (reactive countermeasures)
CIB, MP, ATS
CIB, MP, ATS
MP, BC, ATS
2 fusion, drone controller

7 pathfinders, 1 rail rifle

Broadside, HYMP, SMSx2, seeker missile, ATS, 2 marker drones

(obviously I can mix drones up between squads if necessary, and change support systems....such as not having use for DC on fusion crisis suit if no marker drones are in the 10 that will be close by).

So with 150pts left, I have the following 3 options...

1. Ghostkheel, fusion collider, 2 fusion blaster, 2 stealth drones (would need to drop 2 drones from above, and probably drop both drone controller options for an EWO here too)
2. One more crisis bodyguard with MP, BC, ATS, plus 3 stealth suits, 2 marker drones (would drop rail rifle pathfinder to hit right points)
3. 2 Fusion armed piranhas, +10pts to spare (possible seeker missiles or add another drone somewhere).

I do have another commander on the way but I'm not at the point of taking another detachment just yet, especially with me spending 3CP pre-game on extra relic and veteran crisis suits. I'd also like to take the Ion prototype system, but want to play with the fusion blades I modeled right now, even though they're not great. If taking that third relic was just another CP instead of 2, I'd do both.

Obviously I'm expecting to get up close and personal, but I feel that farsight can at least do that pretty well. Just need to figure out what to add from my remaining models.
Also any insight into some changes above (knowing I don't have a plethora of other options to add).

edit: Also, any recommendation of how to distribute my drones? I do not have any gun drones at the moment (will add some if I get another start collecting box).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/26 15:56:15


Post by: Azuza001


Personally I love phiranas, just don't take them in squads. Moral is an issue. But they can easily help you get engage on all fronts.

As for dispersing your drones don't take a big blob of 10, again moral will kill them quicker than you would expect. But with that list it's not like you have a lot of options on where to move them. I would say 2 onto the commander at least and 2 onto pathfinders so the squad is smaller on the crisis.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/28 20:06:55


Post by: Mr Nobody


I'm planning on taking a coldstar battlesuit with the vectored thrusters. I like the idea of maximum mobility. But the fool I am, I have just realized I can't give them cyclic ion cannons. That's a bummer.

So what would be the best loadout? I was thinking three plasma rifles, or maybe keep one of them as the high output burst cannon. Maybe put on a target lock so I can advance and shoot. Any thoughts?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/29 15:30:30


Post by: carldooley


 Mr Nobody wrote:
I'm planning on taking a coldstar battlesuit with the vectored thrusters. I like the idea of maximum mobility. But the fool I am, I have just realized I can't give them cyclic ion cannons. That's a bummer.

So what would be the best loadout? I was thinking three plasma rifles, or maybe keep one of them as the high output burst cannon. Maybe put on a target lock so I can advance and shoot. Any thoughts?


assuming tau sept (for the vectored thrusters) I'd say 3 missile pods with ATS or 4 Missile Pods and the 'Exemplar of the Mont'ka' Warlord trait.

assuming you are running FSE, consider 2 AFPs, ATS and Target Lock. maximum mobility, good fire support and you never need to expose yourself to return fire.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/05/29 17:07:22


Post by: Mr Nobody


 carldooley wrote:
 Mr Nobody wrote:
I'm planning on taking a coldstar battlesuit with the vectored thrusters. I like the idea of maximum mobility. But the fool I am, I have just realized I can't give them cyclic ion cannons. That's a bummer.

So what would be the best loadout? I was thinking three plasma rifles, or maybe keep one of them as the high output burst cannon. Maybe put on a target lock so I can advance and shoot. Any thoughts?


assuming tau sept (for the vectored thrusters) I'd say 3 missile pods with ATS or 4 Missile Pods and the 'Exemplar of the Mont'ka' Warlord trait.

assuming you are running FSE, consider 2 AFPs, ATS and Target Lock. maximum mobility, good fire support and you never need to expose yourself to return fire.


Those both sound like great ideas. The missile pods are a little more tempting from a creative perspective and I have plenty of those lying around. Thanks for the advice!


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/01 00:56:21


Post by: bullyboy


Had my first game with my FSE yesterday vs Ghaz and some orks. Really like the way this type of Tau feels. Made lots of mistakes (obviously, first game), but like the subtleties in playing this army. Will drop my pathfinders and 2 drones for sure and add a second stealth team. My current painted one was essential to stop opponent swamping my lines (sacrificed for the greater good obviously). Was surprised how well farsight did in combat, was a real muncher. Fusion Blades were a let down, but not ready to give up on them yet. So far, biggest disappointment has to be the missile broadside...but again, will play further and evaluate.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/06 20:02:00


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


With the FAQs out it now seems that Mont'ka allows you to fall back and still shoot. How much help will this really lend T'au at this point?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/06 20:06:19


Post by: Sterling191


 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
With the FAQs out it now seems that Mont'ka allows you to fall back and still shoot. How much help will this really lend T'au at this point?


In practical terms, not much. The army is flat out incompatible with the way 9th plays, and a once (or twice if you take the man himself) per game localized fall back doesn't change that.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/07 14:23:56


Post by: D6Damager


 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
With the FAQs out it now seems that Mont'ka allows you to fall back and still shoot. How much help will this really lend T'au at this point?


The problem I have found with Mont'ka is:

1) That you don't really want to fall back off an objective you're holding.
2) You really need to use it before you anticipate getting charged, but with the smaller board size and crazy assault abilities of other armies you often still can't avoid it.
3) Almost nothing in a Tau list can survive a charge from a tooled up melee unit and character. So after most melees you have nothing left to fall back with in order to use it as a reaction.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/07 16:45:06


Post by: bullyboy


I had Ghazkull kill a ton of drones while leaving my crisis suits intact


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/09 04:15:48


Post by: bullyboy


had a few games with my Tau now, and wouldn't mind some input from the rest of the community.


My list is currently FSE
farsight
fusion coldstar plus 2 shield drones
6 crisis bodyguards (mixed weaponry plus reactive countermeasures) plus 7 shield drones
4x5 breachers in 2 devilfish
riptide with relic ion
ghostkeel with collider plus 2 stealth drones (wish these were optional)
broadside with missiles plus 2 marker drones
2 stealth teams each with a marker drone

The only unit so far that isn't really carrying it's weight is the broadside. It relies on marker hits or 1 CP aerial targeting and even then it's not super accurate. Just wondering what else I should consider throwing into the list for that same 140pts...

I currently have:
2 piranhas with fusion (exactly 140pts)
3 more crisis suits (could do a flamer team with a few drones)
or I could pick up something else.
I do like the indirect nature of the SMS on the broadside and it's a cheap addition on that platform.

Thoughts?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/10 16:17:36


Post by: Sazzlefrats


I was running railguns and plasma rifles on my broadsides. Its not quite as efficient as all missiles, but i went relic magna railguns and with a unit of 3, I felt they were extremely resilient and made a worthy while we stands unit. I was also running target locks, so they can move and shoot without penalty.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/10 18:06:54


Post by: bullyboy


can't they move and shoot without penalty anyway since they are not infantry?



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/10 18:15:51


Post by: Sterling191


 bullyboy wrote:
can't they move and shoot without penalty anyway since they are not infantry?



Correct. They're <Battlesuit> but not <Infantry>. The TL doesn't even remove the penalty for firing heavy weapons on the move for Infantry anymore. It purely allows for advance and shoot (which you don't want to do cause hitting on 5s sucks the big one).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/06/24 14:37:08


Post by: MasteroftheBloodAngels


Hey everyone, I had pleasure of talking Tau on the Art of War podcast! Here's the episode with me discussing the decision making process of crafting the list I went 7-1 with at ACO in the Drukhari meta and then how to play it on the tabletop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzjoRIO5pdE&t=600s

- Richard Siegler


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/07/25 16:46:03


Post by: Valkyrie


So I've seen a bargain deal online for a brand new Stormsurge, and am on the fence wherever its worth going for it. The kit comes with a couple of upgrades which look pretty awesome, but will it make up its points in a game?

To me it seems like a huge gamble, and is it even worth the 3CP tax just to take it in the first place?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/07/25 23:57:52


Post by: Sterling191


Can't really speak to their efficacy (not a model I'm as familiar with as some others in the arsenal), but they're now only 1CP thanks to the latest FAQ (you get 2cp back on a Superheavy if it's the same faction as your warlord).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/07/29 06:57:32


Post by: Nibbler


Sterling191 wrote:
Can't really speak to their efficacy (not a model I'm as familiar with as some others in the arsenal), but they're now only 1CP thanks to the latest FAQ (you get 2cp back on a Superheavy if it's the same faction as your warlord).


where did you find that? I can't find the change in the errata (and I really want to use the stormsurge)...


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/07/29 08:01:51


Post by: kirotheavenger


It's in the most recent Chapter Approved.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/10 23:48:21


Post by: carldooley


To anyone running fish of fury, have you gamed the pathfinders staying in the devilfish with the firewarriors? I mean, a devilfish has a transport capacity of 12 models, so 5 pathfinders and 7 firewarriors makes a happy load.

also, I was unable to find the FAQ entry that said that we weren't able to choose range profiles for weapons in overwatch. Am I looking in the wrong place, or can we do that again?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/11 14:13:17


Post by: kirotheavenger


Has that ever been a thing? If you couldn't choose a ranged profile you'd be unable to fire any weapon with multiple profiles.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/12 00:34:56


Post by: carldooley


 kirotheavenger wrote:
Has that ever been a thing? If you couldn't choose a ranged profile you'd be unable to fire any weapon with multiple profiles.


there was something saying how you were restricted to the maximum range of Breachers' blasters regardless of how close the assaulters were. Made sense, but we couldn't choose a more favorable weapon profile if they were in range of one of the others (ex, no using the S6AP-2 if the assaulters is charging from within 5").


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/12 09:03:02


Post by: kirotheavenger


There's certainly nothing about that in the FAQ at the moment, so choose which weapon profile you want to use as normal.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/16 11:03:04


Post by: Valkyrie


I've decided to take the plunge into Tau after getting some absolute bargains online, just wondering if I have anything close to a semi-competitive list:

Click the link in my sig to see the army progress.

Ethereal
Cadre Fireblade
Crisis Commander

20x Fire Warriors

2x Firesight Marksmen

6x Crisis Suits (magnetised)
Ghostkeel

1x Broadside (magnetised)
6x Sniper Drones

Devilfish
2x Remoras

Stormsurge

I get that I definitely need some Pathfinders and some more Fire Warriors, but a couple of tactics I'm considering is a return to the old Crisis-bomb. Drop a Commander with the 6x Crisis suits (3x twin-Flamer, 3x twin-Fusion), and pop CnC. If I were to place the Remoras up front they provide a handy shield to deter assaults (due to being Aircraft).



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/16 12:01:30


Post by: Sterling191


Pretty much the only thing in your inventory that I don't think is workable in the current environment are the Sniper Drones, mostly due to cost efficiency. They're too expensive and not good enough at the job. Everything else can still do the business in a "seriously casual" environment. Full disclosure though, it's gonna be an uphill slog.


If you can snag the old (current) Start Collecting box, it's easily the best way to get further into Tau. Crisis suits that can be built straight up or converted to Commanders, Fire Warriors that you can likewise josh over to Pathfinders, plus an Ethereal (who I frequently use as the basis for my Fireblade and Marksman conversions, but YMMV), all for about a 40% cost savings over picking things up individually.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/16 12:14:05


Post by: Valkyrie


Sterling191 wrote:
Pretty much the only thing in your inventory that I don't think is workable in the current environment are the Sniper Drones, mostly due to cost efficiency. They're too expensive and not good enough at the job. Everything else can still do the business in a "seriously casual" environment. Full disclosure though, it's gonna be an uphill slog.


If you can snag the old (current) Start Collecting box, it's easily the best way to get further into Tau. Crisis suits that can be built straight up or converted to Commanders, Fire Warriors that you can likewise josh over to Pathfinders, plus an Ethereal (who I frequently use as the basis for my Fireblade and Marksman conversions, but YMMV), all for about a 40% cost savings over picking things up individually.


That's pretty much what I did, got the SC box a long time ago, then the bargain bundle I had included another one. Already made a Fireblade from one of the Ethereals. I agree that the Sniper Drones are subpar. If they were BS4 then I'd definitely take a couple but perhaps I should drop them.

While on the topic of extra Fire Warriors, is it worth considering Pulse Carbines at all? Seems to me that Rifles are the main choice but is there any real argument for taking the Carbines instead>


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/16 12:21:56


Post by: Sterling191


 Valkyrie wrote:

While on the topic of extra Fire Warriors, is it worth considering Pulse Carbines at all? Seems to me that Rifles are the main choice but is there any real argument for taking the Carbines instead>


IMO carbines don't really have a place outside of really edge case builds with Vior'La, but even then I don't think they'd do better than Breachers. You're either going Rifles with a Fireblade for a hail of bullets, or Blasters for close in mulching (and subsequent dying).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/17 14:39:47


Post by: Valkyrie


Sterling191 wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:

While on the topic of extra Fire Warriors, is it worth considering Pulse Carbines at all? Seems to me that Rifles are the main choice but is there any real argument for taking the Carbines instead>


IMO carbines don't really have a place outside of really edge case builds with Vior'La, but even then I don't think they'd do better than Breachers. You're either going Rifles with a Fireblade for a hail of bullets, or Blasters for close in mulching (and subsequent dying).


Fair enough. I've also been looking at getting a squad of 5 Pathfinders w. 3x Rail Rifles. You've still got 2 Markerlights to try and get the reroll 1's, and the Rail Rifles could be good at cleaning up tougher units, or getting the last wound off a vehicle to degrade it. Anyone else tried this?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/08/18 00:25:23


Post by: carldooley


 Valkyrie wrote:
Fair enough. I've also been looking at getting a squad of 5 Pathfinders w. 3x Rail Rifles. You've still got 2 Markerlights to try and get the reroll 1's, and the Rail Rifles could be good at cleaning up tougher units, or getting the last wound off a vehicle to degrade it. Anyone else tried this?


I'm likely going to do something similar on Fri.
If you are going to go for a toolbox build, see if you can free up 10 points for a Pulse Accelerator Drone.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/09/08 05:12:53


Post by: Nibbler


Could anyone with a 40k app subscription do me a favour and double check the pointcosts for drones that accompany firewarriors?

I think they got them wrong - where can I send bug reports to GW?

Edit: just to clear that up, I am a subscriber - but I'm not sure, if I just missed an official points change or something like that


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/23 13:00:04


Post by: Tiberius501


Hey Tau players. Was considering cracking my old Tau out again and was wondering how they fair in the current meta. Want to do a 500pt patrol list to start off as nothing is painted lol. Any suggestions?

Was curious about things like: which Septs do alright, any units to take/avoid, etc.

Thanks very much


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/23 14:11:14


Post by: Ordana


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey Tau players. Was considering cracking my old Tau out again and was wondering how they fair in the current meta. Want to do a 500pt patrol list to start off as nothing is painted lol. Any suggestions?

Was curious about things like: which Septs do alright, any units to take/avoid, etc.

Thanks very much
Farsight Enclave (Psychic Awakening, Greater good book) for stratagem to get a BS 3+ crisis unit.

Big unit of Crisis (BS 3+ strat, Reactive Countermeasures for 1 model with ignore AP -1.-2 , 2+ sv 4+ invul (shield gen + iridium armor), lots of missile pods with extra -1 ap support system)
Riptide with the prototype ion accelerator.
some markerlights
some Remora Stealth Drones if you want FW.

Aside from simply being behind on the power curve because its an 8th edition book and 9th is a definitive power jump the big question you need to solve as Tau is how to claim and hold objectives in the mid field and somehow survive for a turn as well as what secondaries you can reliably score.

And make sure to check the relevant faq's because a bunch of stuff has been changed via errata's to update it with 9th


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/23 14:33:47


Post by: Tiberius501


Okay thanks. Interesting to see Farsight Enclaves being top dogs right now. The 3+ strat almost seems like it’s how all suits should be right now tbh.

Not overly keen on the sound of 9th being a power jump, 8th was already a mess with mass murder and trying to out do each other with toughness and damage.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/23 19:02:01


Post by: Ordana


 Tiberius501 wrote:
Okay thanks. Interesting to see Farsight Enclaves being top dogs right now. The 3+ strat almost seems like it’s how all suits should be right now tbh.

Not overly keen on the sound of 9th being a power jump, 8th was already a mess with mass murder and trying to out do each other with toughness and damage.
For casual play its 'ok'. For competitive 9th edition is a complete mess with massive differences even between the few 9th edition codexes. Admech is head and shoulders above everyone, DE run roughshod over everyone that isn't Admech.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/26 08:16:21


Post by: dan2026


Is it worth it to give Crisis Suits shield generators?
I'm thinking of a big unit with dual missile pods and the stabiliser jets relic.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/27 02:09:32


Post by: carldooley


For low level games, I have fallen in love with the Dual Flamers & ATT Crisis Bodyguard with +1 BS\WS Strat. Sure the BS is wasted on the flamers, but the ATT also works in CC, against the model or two that survives overwatch.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/27 09:33:13


Post by: dan2026


Any reason you are running the Crisis Bodyguards over the regular Crisis suits?
Just for the extra attack?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/10/27 13:05:09


Post by: carldooley


 dan2026 wrote:
Any reason you are running the Crisis Bodyguards over the regular Crisis suits?
Just for the extra attack?

pretty much, yeah.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/02 13:36:22


Post by: Tiberius501


I wonder when we’ll start getting some leaks for our upcoming book. Really curious how they’re going to go about Tau in 9th.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/02 13:42:14


Post by: Sterling191


 Tiberius501 wrote:
I wonder when we’ll start getting some leaks for our upcoming book. Really curious how they’re going to go about Tau in 9th.


Codex is currently slated for early 2022. It's gonna be at least another month and a half before anything starts dribbling out.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/02 13:53:48


Post by: Tiberius501


I really wish they just released all the books at the start of a new edition -_-


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/02 22:36:31


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


 Tiberius501 wrote:
I really wish they just released all the books at the start of a new edition -_-


At the very least they should do what they did with 8th and release an Index for everyone at the beginning of each edition. It isn't perfect, but it is better than waiting 2+ years into an edition before you get your codex.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/10 20:31:12


Post by: zend


What do you think are the odd that they’ll limit Plasma Rifles to 1 per suit in the new codex?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/10 21:24:00


Post by: Ordana


 zend wrote:
What do you think are the odd that they’ll limit Plasma Rifles to 1 per suit in the new codex?
low and irrelevant unless they also make plasma rifles actually worth taking.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/25 17:59:05


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/25/troops-are-better-than-ever-how-the-next-three-codexes-improve-your-units/

Pulse Rifles and Pulse Carbines both get an extra 6" of range in the new codex. Pulse Rifles also get -1 AP.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/25 18:06:00


Post by: Grimskul


Makes me wonder if that has implications for changes to Plasma Rifles or Rail Rifles in terms of rules.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/30 11:18:21


Post by: bedivere


I have a Tidewall Rampart (gunrig, drone port and shield wall with platform) and find it seems to work well putting strike / pathfinder squad into that and rolling it up the board (keeping the gunrig back with a Marksman or a Cadre Fireblade near objective)

It allows the units to move up and fire as if stationary and can make some weak units more resilient. (it also allows you to move your units off the tidewall unit and shoot at enemy that are engaged with the tidewall, which I wish tau had more options to shoot at units that are engaged).

If the enemy tries to take on the tidewall head on, tt can be good to use units in reserve and drop them (even vespid) to take back field objectives.

If you don’t have tidewall (which is likely) then I had a little success using kroot hounds (but same applies to kroot units in general)

There are two methods that can be used with kroot hounds;
1 Rush up board and charge enemy units.
2 Support other units to prevent them getting charged (which may allow you to keep an objective an extra turn).

The kroot hounds are very cheap and very weak and are a fodder unit with not much purpose, they are not used much and people don’t really expect them or know what to do with them.

Its a delaying tactic as they will not typically last in melee but it stops the opposing units from doing what ever they were planning.

I find that players are especially not used to tau charging them (can you remember the last time you were charged by tau?) and can throw them off for a turn or two, as it is so unexpected and can interrupt any game plan or strategy that they have (and in this sense kroot hounds are golden).
They are so weak that unless you have a full squad it is very easy to wipe them off the board but they have a few way to protect them.

They have no ranged attack to they should almost always move and advance (unless they are in the position where you want them).

Importantly they have the Voracious Predators ability that allows you to re-roll failed charge rolls when targeting a unit that has suffered any unsaved wounds this turn. This is easy to do if you are protecting other units but should be easy enough to do if you are targeting a unit for a charge, in hopes to hold it up a bit.

1 - If you are planning to charge them up the board then try to use cover to protect them from shooting etc. and you may either want a couple of small squads to absorb shooting attacks or a larger squad.

There are a couple of stats that can help the kroot get up the board safely.
Hidden Hunters (1CP) gives kroot the benefit of cover from shooting attacks (subtracting 1 from the hit roll and adding 1 to the saving throw).

Hunting Hounds (1CP) once the kroot hound unit successfully completes a charge, Kroot units within 12” can re-roll charges (either into the same or other enemy units, which is a great way to hod them up a bit).


2 - If you plan to use them to support other units then you can use the move and advance to easily react to the opponents moves and get these guys into a useful position for them to die.

Amusing Predators (1CP) gives kroot heroic intervention with 6” move, which is a cheap useful way to intercept a charge from an enemy melee unit and with 6” move, a small squad of kroot hounds may be able to protect a couple of units from being charged into melee.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/30 16:14:48


Post by: Tawnis


Always happy to see someone else give the Kroot some much needed recognition.

Hounds are a weird little unit for sure, but anything that is 6 points a model with a 12" move certainly deserves a closer look. Great for grabbing Engage on all Fronts, or any other board based objective.

I think you hit the nail on the head with them quite well. They are great support units, and I'll often run small units of them into tanks to tie them up for a turn.

In my most recent game, I used some Kroot to shield my Breachers from harm and they really got to open up into the enemy a lot more than normal.

Sadly Hidden Hunters has to be used at the start of the shooting phase rather than when being targeted, so it can feel like a waste if the unit is just ignored, but then again, that is kind of what you want isn't it?

Even in my all Kroot army, I've only used Hunting Hounds once, it's so niche, but really cool when it comes down and you're re-rolling charges on 5+ units.

Too add to this, another surprisingly decent unit that doesn't get a lot of love and can work well for the Tau in getting up the board and into melee are the Krootox. A unit of three is only 84 points, and while their save is virtually non-existent, you are looking at T5 W4 per model, so it's not like they just fall over. They have (essentially) a missile pod as their weapon so they hit decent at range. They Auto Advance 6". The big thing though is their Raging Beasts stratagem. For 1 CP, they gain +2A and -2 AP. This means if you get all three in, you're doing 12 attacks at WS 3+, S6 AP-2 D2. Pretty solid for any army, let alone Tau. (Now personally I do give the edge to the Knarloc Riders in close combat as they are only 30pts and don't have to spend a CP to be good in melee, but they are sadly Legendary.)


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/30 17:02:27


Post by: MrMoustaffa


Does the gunrig have a way to up its BS? Seems pretty terrible for two shots at bs 5+, even if its got markerlight support. Ive got the tidewall rampart box and have been trying to figure out how to make it work, even for just some fun games.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/30 18:56:28


Post by: bedivere


yes the gunring and droneport can use the models BS that are embarked, hence the Marksman (cheap BS 3+ unit) or Cadre Fireblade (BS 2+), you can stick battle suits on them but tis a bit redundent.

Embarked units count has not having moved, even if the platform did. So the marksman can also shoot the markerlight (infantry with a heavy weapon) with no penalty. (so some battle suits make sense to put on there), This is why I also like pathfinders, as they can make good use of the heavy weapons on them.

(It is some times better to have the gunrig (125 pts) or droneport (75 pts) with a Cadre Fireblade (45 pts) on them and think of them as BS 2+ gunrig (170 pts) or droneport (120 pts) with a transport capacity of 9 (instead of 10, which still bugs me its not 12 like the devil fish so you cant take a full squad of strike team ... fingers crossed for the new codex).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/30 19:31:23


Post by: MrMoustaffa


Whats the rule that allows the gunrig to use the embarked model's BS? From what I can tell having an embarked model just allows it to pick a target that isnt closest to it. I checked battlescribe, the gw app, and the codex, none of them mention using an embarked models BS. Am I missing a general rule elsewhere?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/11/30 22:40:35


Post by: Ordana


The embarked model BS is only a rule for the Droneport, not for the Gunrig.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/22 16:10:25


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


More T'au previews:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/21/punish-close-combat-forces-who-think-theyre-safe-with-codex-tau-empires-new-battlesuit-rules/

Jump, Shoot, Jump returns as a stratagem for battlesuits.

Flamers will go to 12" D6+2 auto hits.

Burst cannons get six shots.

Some support systems get updates, as well.

Biggest news is probably that all battlesuits can shoot into combat without penalty.



T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/22 18:13:38


Post by: Tawnis


You ready to roll 162 dice for an all burst cannon unit?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/29 14:21:32


Post by: Grimskul


Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/29 16:22:00


Post by: Mud Turkey 13


I am very interested to see Longstrike combined with this. I am excited to bring a railgun to a game.

Full article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/29/nobody-is-safe-from-the-awesome-power-of-the-tau-empires-new-and-improved-railgun/


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/29 16:44:42


Post by: MrMoustaffa


Even if the hammerhead gets dropped to bs4+, with the free reroll it gets youve got a base 75% chance to hit. Yeah you gotta pass the wound roll but it seems like a greater than 50% chance itll one shot most tanks and lighter monstrous creatures in a single shot. Only real issue it has is youre really going to need to support it if you have enemy infantry running around


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/29 16:54:36


Post by: stratigo


 Grimskul wrote:
Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.


More worth considering then literally any single other AT weapon in the game. Like nothing is even close. That's the kind of stats they handed out to forgeworld titans.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/29 17:33:32


Post by: Ordana


stratigo wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.


More worth considering then literally any single other AT weapon in the game. Like nothing is even close. That's the kind of stats they handed out to forgeworld titans.
welcome to the 9th edition arms race, yes its dumb and we've been complaining about it for a while now...


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/29 18:14:26


Post by: stratigo


 Ordana wrote:
stratigo wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.


More worth considering then literally any single other AT weapon in the game. Like nothing is even close. That's the kind of stats they handed out to forgeworld titans.
welcome to the 9th edition arms race, yes its dumb and we've been complaining about it for a while now...


I mean, there's an arms race and there's this.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/30 02:55:11


Post by: carldooley


considering that that is BETTER than an AX-1-0's Heavy Rail Cannon...


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2021/12/30 10:24:45


Post by: Ordana


 carldooley wrote:
considering that that is BETTER than an AX-1-0's Heavy Rail Cannon...
You can't compare pre-9th weapons with 9th edition weapons because HOLYMOTHEROFPOWERCREEP.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/01 03:44:09


Post by: Neophyte2012


 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Even if the hammerhead gets dropped to bs4+, with the free reroll it gets youve got a base 75% chance to hit. Yeah you gotta pass the wound roll but it seems like a greater than 50% chance itll one shot most tanks and lighter monstrous creatures in a single shot. Only real issue it has is youre really going to need to support it if you have enemy infantry running around


I think it would be fun to see how many shots from Railgun can kill fully buffed Mortarion (-1 to hit, -1 dmg, 5++ FnP)? anyone can offer a calculation?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/01 10:11:04


Post by: EightFoldPath


Work backwards.

RG does average 11 damage reduced down to 10.
30 damage would get FNP'd down to 20 damage and get the kill.
So 3 woundings required.
T8, so wounds on 3s, so you need 4.5 hits.

So, worst case of all HHs are BS4 with no way to buff the to hit, re-rolling to hit, you need 8.1 shots. P.S. This is also how many RG shots Tau Sept would need in overwatch currently.

Best case, LS+3HHs, BS2/3 with 5 markerlights giving +1/+2 to hit. re-rolling to hit, gives 4.63 shots. Throw in LS's +1 to wound monsters and a CP re-roll on one of the other wound rolls and you get 4.05 shots.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/05 12:20:00


Post by: carldooley


I had a silly little idea last night. Would anyone else be willing to use a flyer like the Razorshark if you replaced the Quad Ion Turret with the Tetra's High Intensity Markerlight?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/05 13:26:49


Post by: Ordana


 carldooley wrote:
I had a silly little idea last night. Would anyone else be willing to use a flyer like the Razorshark if you replaced the Quad Ion Turret with the Tetra's High Intensity Markerlight?
I doubt it could be priced competitively simply because your paying a lot of points for the body that doesn't really do anything. We tend to want cheap markerlights (because they don't do damage on their own) and aircraft are not cheap.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/14 19:23:55


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Essentially the full book has been shared...

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/s3hafh/more_tau_leaks/

Just starting to dig through the info-dump now... but it seems like a VERY strong book.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/19 17:40:57


Post by: bedivere


I like the distinction between seeker missile and skyrays.
Seeker Missile: 72", Heavy 1, S9, AP -3, Dmg 2d3, one shot per seeker.
Sky rays have a Seeker Missile Rack - 72", Heavy d3+1, S9, AP-3, 2d3 dmg
So a sky ray can now launch 2-4 seeker missiles per turn and are not limited to the number of seeker missiles they have.
This makes them much more useful.
Not sure about the seeker missile markerlight / strat thing (if the +1 to wound or LOS is the markerlight or strat) or the BS used when fireing them.
"There is a Strat that allows you to shoot at things out of LoS with seeker missiles if they have a markerlight token (and you get +1 to Wound for the attack)"

Cant wait till end of month to get full thing after all the years of 9th edition.... Just in time for 10th edition release and the codex to be useless again for years lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So new rules on Markerlights are that the vehicle or drone units can start the markerlight action at start of movment phase and then move (path finders can move then start the markerlight action, other units have to start markerlight action at start of movment phase and remain stationary, no idea if that stacks with montka).

So i guess that means the skyray (being a vehicle that has markerlights) can target a unit with a markerlight and then move to cover and fire its Seeker Missile Rack at the target out of LOS, assuming that the markerlight gives the LOS benefit to seeker missiles (either the markerlight or the strat give it this ability so strat can be used instead).

Could be handy to move out of LOS but could mess up the next turn if they have no target in 36" to select for markerlight action.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 09:25:46


Post by: Spreelock


I read that the markerlight action is completed at the start of the shooting phase, and that's when you roll 3+ to actually hit with the markerlight. So that skyray could not "shoot" markerlight without LOS.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 12:54:12


Post by: bedivere


The markerlight rules will certainly need clarification on a lot of details, that only the full codex would be able to provide.
Like is LOS needed the whole time from start of action to the end rolling the action before shooting phase.

Also clarification on units like pathfinders that fall back out of engagment, can they then use the markerlight action (whihc is no longer shoot) to now target the enemy unit that they just fell abck from?
Allowing other units to shoot at the unit.
Clarification on the seeker missile interactions also.
Do farsight get markerlights in the charge phase (as the text would imply)

A lot of clarification needed in the codex, but atleast we know that the markerlight thing has changed a lot.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 13:27:38


Post by: EightFoldPath


Leaked markerlight written rule:
Fire Markerlights (Action): One or more Markerlight units from your army can start to perform this action at the start of your movement phase. Aircraft Markerlight units can perform this action. The action is completed at the start of your next shooting phase. If this action is successfully completed, for each model in that unit that is equipped with one or more markerlights, for each markerlight that model is equipped with, select one enemy unit within 36" of that model that would be an eligible target for that model if its unit had been selected to shoot, and roll one D6: on a 3+, that enemy unit gains one Markerlight token.

While a VEHICLE or DRONE unit is performing the Fire Markerlights action, that unit can move without that action failing. If it does, until the end of the turn, models in that unit without the VEHICLE or DRONE keyword that are equipped with any markerlights are treated as not being equipped with any markerlights for the purpose of the Fire Markerlights action.


Leaked pathfinder datasheet rule:
Target Uploaded: This unit can start the Fire Markerlights action at the end of your Movement phase, instead of at the start.


Basic rules for actions which are:
Some rules let a unit perform an action; this represents the units doing all manner of things, ranging from raising a banner, arming or dismantling traps, searching an objective site, hacking into a data terminal and so on.

Each action will specify when a unit can start to perform it, when it is completed, and any other conditions that must be satisfied (for example, some actions can only be attempted by units that are at specific locations on the battlefield). You can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it (excluding AIRCRAFT) and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn. AIRCRAFT units and units with the Fortifications Battlefield Role cannot perform actions. A unit can only attempt to perform one action per battle round.

If a unit is destroyed, makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power, declares a charge, performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged weapons after it has started to perform an action but before that action is completed, that action is failed. Otherwise, that action is successfully completed. A CHARACTER unit cannot use any aura abilities while it is performing an action (if the action is failed, their aura abilities immediately take effect again).

Simply, you have to be able to see to ML someone. You can't fall back and do an action.

Fun extra leak (read the last sentence don't blah blah blah it):
Recon Sweep – 1 CP, Strategic Ploy

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a PATHFINDER TEAM unit from your army successfully completes the Fire Markerlights action (pg XX). Each time you roll to see if an enemy unit gains a Markerlight token as a result of that action completing, add 1 to the roll. That unit can make a Normal Move.


Funnest fact, the leaks plus a certain russian website made copying and pasting this stuff so easy.

The second set of leaks cleared up quite a few areas of confusion. I still want to carefully read the codex for any really well hidden power combos, but we have a good general idea now of where the power is coming from (mainly the amount of stats per points on weapons/bodies/hulls).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 13:38:44


Post by: Spreelock


As I've read it, it seems very clear so far (though it's still based on rumours). You cannot fallback and do action. The farsight enclaves do not benefit from markerlight in the overwatch, as you cannot modify the overwatch diceroll. The seeker missiles fire now with models ballistic skill (that was mentioned in the leaks).


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 14:46:47


Post by: Sterling191


bedivere wrote:

So new rules on Markerlights are that the vehicle or drone units can start the markerlight action at start of movment phase and then move (path finders can move then start the markerlight action, other units have to start markerlight action at start of movment phase and remain stationary, no idea if that stacks with montka).


With the known wording of Mont'Ka, the answer is yes you can advance and Markerlight. The ability counts a unit as having Remained Stationary until the end of the Shooting phase. Not just for ranged attacks, but for everything in the Movement and Shooting phases.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 16:24:41


Post by: Spreelock


No, you couldn't. The markerlight action is activated at the start of the movement phase, and since you're doing an action, you could not move (with the exception of drone and vehicle units) or advance. The pathfinder units and darkstrider have ability to activate markerlight action in the end of the movement phase.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 16:29:15


Post by: Ordana


Sterling191 wrote:
bedivere wrote:

So new rules on Markerlights are that the vehicle or drone units can start the markerlight action at start of movment phase and then move (path finders can move then start the markerlight action, other units have to start markerlight action at start of movment phase and remain stationary, no idea if that stacks with montka).


With the known wording of Mont'Ka, the answer is yes you can advance and Markerlight. The ability counts a unit as having Remained Stationary until the end of the Shooting phase. Not just for ranged attacks, but for everything in the Movement and Shooting phases.
an action fails if you move, having 'counts as stationary' doesn't change that.
Infact I would go so far as to say this entire 'markerlights are an action' thing exists precisely because of the army having 'counts as stationary' and GW doesn't want that rule (counts as stationary) to interact with markerlights at all.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 16:34:04


Post by: Sterling191


 Ordana wrote:
an action fails if you move, having 'counts as stationary' doesn't change that.
Infact I would go so far as to say this entire 'markerlights are an action' thing exists precisely because of the army having 'counts as stationary' and GW doesn't want that rule (counts as stationary) to interact with markerlights at all.


Incorrect. You cannot *start* an action if you have moved or advanced (CRB FAQ, pg8, right side, bullet point 8). There is no such stipulation in the rare rules if the order of operations is reversed.

Markerlights going off at the beginning of the phase is the variable. You wouldn't be able to say, RND or Banner because that happens after the point of movement.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 16:34:57


Post by: bedivere


I was assuimng Montka but didnt mention it.
also i missed the updaet about seeker missiles using units BS, thats a nice change


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 17:11:50


Post by: Spreelock


RAW, the action fails if you move.

Here's the leak as a reference

Fire Markerlights (Action): One or more Markerlight units from your army can start to perform this action at the start of your movement phase. Aircraft Markerlight units can perform this action. The action is completed at the start of your next shooting phase. If this action is successfully completed, for each model in that unit that is equipped with one or more markerlights, for each markerlight that model is equipped with, select one enemy unit within 36" of that model that would be an eligible target for that model if its unit had been selected to shoot, and roll one D6: on a 3+, that enemy unit gains one Markerlight token.

While a VEHICLE or DRONE unit is performing the Fire Markerlights action, that unit can move without that action failing. If it does, until the end of the turn, models in that unit without the VEHICLE or DRONE keyword that are equipped with any markerlights are treated as not being equipped with any markerlights for the purpose of the Fire Markerlights action.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 17:18:27


Post by: bedivere


by default the markerlight action would fail with a move (not clear on montka context, up for debate). but NOT with the tau rules leaked.
Other actions still fail if units move (unless there are other factors at play)

"While a VEHICLE or DRONE unit is performing the Fire Markerlights action, that unit can move without that action failing"
"Pathfinders can move then apply ML"

So the answer is not a simple as if you move it fails, as clearly they CAN move.
My question still is does that apply to the fall back (or even advance), whcih i think would be defined in the codex, and i am suspecting that fall back or advance will fail the markerlight action.
Still it is worth looking at, as path finders may become a good front line unit to fall back out of combat and and laydown markerlights for others to use to shoot, if they can fallback without the action failing.

At the moment all we 'know' (if leaks are correct) is that move is the word of the day and the type of movement is not clear.
Is everyone seems to be assuming that the drones / vehicles may be able move and advance and then do a markerlight action? again that is up for debate, also with montka too.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 17:24:53


Post by: Sterling191


 Spreelock wrote:
RAW, the action fails if you move.


Which is irrelevant when the unit counts as having Remained Stationary. Rare Rules has an explicit carveout for such rules stating that units are ineligble to start actions if they have Advanced or Fallen back. It has no such stipulation that actions fail. In fact, there is an explicit statement (bullet point 5 in the FAQ), that any other rules or abilities dependent on a unit having Remained Stationary are in play. This includes completing actions.

Mont'ka explicitly counts a unit as having Remained Stationary through the entirety of the Movement and Shooting phases.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 17:30:12


Post by: Spreelock


I think you're stretching the rules of regular movement into advance or fallback.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 17:35:34


Post by: bedivere


This sure would be easier if instead of 'move' they (leaker) said 'normal move' (as GW does in rules). as it would clear up the advance / fallback part.

'move' or 'movement' is split into normal move, advance, fall back.

We will have to wait on codex for that.
again codex may clarify montka too


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 18:18:12


Post by: Spreelock


Yeah, I'm still super excited about this book, I've got a rough idea of 2k list;

Spoiler:

Supreme command detachment (tau sept)
- shadowsun 150 (warlord exemplar of kayon)

Battalion (tau sept)
- cadre fireblade 50 (relic puretide neurochip)
- ethereal w/hoverdrone 65 (relic staff)
- darkstrider 60
- strike team (10, 2x marker drone) 100
- strike team (10, 2x marker drone) 100
- strike team (10, 2x marker drone) 100
- ghostkeel 160
- ghostkeel 160
- stealth team (3, fusion blaster) 80
- stealth team (3, fusion blaster) 80
- pathfinder team (10, 3x railrifle, recon drone, grav drone, pulse drone) 140
- piranha (fusion blaster) 70
- piranha (fusion blaster) 70
- Hammerhead (railcannon, 2x sms) 155
- Hammerhead (railcannon, 2x sms) 155
- broadside team (3, 3x heavy railrifle, 3x twin sms) 270

Total 1970


The points cost of the list is from the leaks, if anyone is interested, I can make a compilation.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 18:26:52


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I'm terribly excited for this book. Tau are an army I dabbled in buying but never committed to over the last decade. A small financial win-fall let me go a little crazy right before the leaks happened, so while Tau were still considered a bottom-tier, joke army, I ebay'd up probably $1500 worth of Tau for sub $500. Now seeing that soooo much of what I ended up with is poised to range from good to great, is a nice feeling.

Now I just need to track down some Kroot as they seem outright amazing at 6ppm. Anyone have suggestions for fun or interesting non-GW Kroot options? SW: Legion Wookies might be worth a laugh.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 20:33:14


Post by: Ordana


Sterling191 wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
an action fails if you move, having 'counts as stationary' doesn't change that.
Infact I would go so far as to say this entire 'markerlights are an action' thing exists precisely because of the army having 'counts as stationary' and GW doesn't want that rule (counts as stationary) to interact with markerlights at all.


Incorrect. You cannot *start* an action if you have moved or advanced (CRB FAQ, pg8, right side, bullet point 8). There is no such stipulation in the rare rules if the order of operations is reversed.

Markerlights going off at the beginning of the phase is the variable. You wouldn't be able to say, RND or Banner because that happens after the point of movement.
Its literally in the rules for actions
If a unit is destroyed, makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls
Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power, declares a charge,
performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged
weapons after it has started to perform an action but before that
action is completed, that action is failed.
(pg 75 of GT2021)


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/20 22:35:40


Post by: Sterling191


 Ordana wrote:
Its literally in the rules for actions
If a unit is destroyed, makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls
Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power, declares a charge,
performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged
weapons after it has started to perform an action but before that
action is completed, that action is failed.
(pg 75 of GT2021)


Which is irrelevant with a rule that precludes a unit from meeting any of those criteria. Movement states in 9th are black and white. Either you Remain Stationary, make a Normal Move, Advance or Fall Back. Mont'ka explicitly locks you into the Remain Stationary state for the Movement and Shooting phases so long as you don't Fall Back.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/21 00:29:57


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I can see both sides, but to be honest, I think GW intended for Tau to just sit in one place the entire game. (Not a tau player, but I don't understand how that would be a possible play style)

Are you @Sterling191 saying the downside to MLs is the unit has to remain stationary the entire turn?


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/21 16:01:44


Post by: Sterling191


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Are you @Sterling191 saying the downside to MLs is the unit has to remain stationary the entire turn?


No? The point of dispute is whether Mont'ka allows non-Drone and non-Vehicle units to move/advance while Markerlighting in turns 1-3.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/22 20:15:19


Post by: bedivere


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think GW intended for Tau to just sit in one place the entire game.


Definitely not what GW want for tau.
Tau are a move and shoot based army.
That's the lore
That's the reason behind montka
As pointed out montka means the unit counts as stationary (for the first 3 turns) so that means that the action would not fail because of movement in montka (the action can fail for other reasons).

As for potential army lists,
I'm interested to see a list with both shadows in and farsight together in a farsight enclave. (As shadowsun can now be taken in another army as supreme commander and not break sept tenants).

I should think that they would have good synergy, while they have some overlap with rerolls it means that you could cover most of your army with the auras from each of them across the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still think the pathfinders can 'move' including fallback or advance, and then at the end of movement phase start the marker light action.

I don't think this will be settled until the codex is released.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/22 21:58:33


Post by: Sterling191


bedivere wrote:

I don't think this will be settled until the codex is released.


It won't be resolved until the post-Codex FAQ.

bedivere wrote:

I'm interested to see a list with both shadows in and farsight together in a farsight enclave. (As shadowsun can now be taken in another army as supreme commander and not break sept tenants).

I should think that they would have good synergy, while they have some overlap with rerolls it means that you could cover most of your army with the auras from each of them across the field.



Shadowsun explicitly affects all Tau Empire units now, not just Tau Sept. That said, you don't want to run her in a Supreme Command as if you do she *has* to be your warlord, and Exemplar of Kauyon is pants for the kinds of things you want to be doing with an Enclave list. Both she and Farsight have the "If you bring this model it has to be your Warlord" rule, but as a result you get to pick and Farsight is the supremely better choice.


T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/23 07:18:08


Post by: bedivere


Thanks for clarifying that shadowsun farsight thing Sterling191

The rules we know on markerlights so far from the leak, i have separated it into 3 sections; The default rules, special rules and Using Markerlights :
The default rules:
Fire Markerlights is an action (not part of the shooting phase any more).
One or more Markerlight units from your army can start to perform this action at the start of your movement phase.
The action is completed at the start of your next shooting phase.
If this action is successfully completed, for each model in that unit that is equipped with one or more markerlights, for each markerlight that model is equipped with, select one enemy unit within 36" of that model that would be an eligible target for that model if its unit had been selected to shoot, and roll one D6: on a 3+, that enemy unit gains one Markerlight token.

The list of special rules to this:
Aircraft Markerlight units can perform this action.
VEHICLE or DRONE keyword units performing the Fire Markerlights action can move without that action failing.
If it does, until the end of the turn, models in that unit without the VEHICLE or DRONE keyword that are equipped with any markerlights are treated as not being equipped with any markerlights for the purpose of the Fire Markerlights action.
Pathfinders can move then apply Markerlights.

Using Markerlights up:
Markerlights only affect Tau Empire unit shooting (not Aux units, kroot or vespid).
Each time a model in that Tau Empire unit makes a ranged attack against a unit with one or more Markerlight Tokens, add 1 to that attack's hit roll.
After that Tau Empire unit has finished making its shooting attacks, for each enemy unit targeted by those attacks, remove one Markerlight token from that enemy unit.
Remove all Markerlight tokens at the end of your shooting phase.
(Farsight Enclaves always have Markerlight if making attacks within 12", even in other phases).

The default rules are fairly clear.
The using markerlights is fairly clear.
The issue is the special rule exemptions.
A lot of the rules for the markerlight stipulate movement.
It seems most people are swapping the word move for normal move in there minds, and i dont think that this is correct.

On the topic of the movement phase it should contain;
  • Normal Move

  • Advance

  • Remain Stationary

  • Fall Back

  • Reinforcements

  • Typically the "move units" is Normal Move, Advance, Remain Stationary, Fall Back
    The Reinforcements is typically taken in the next step of the movement phase

    This implies to me that 'move' includes Normal Move, Advance, Remain Stationary, Fall Back ... and maybe Reinforcements, only for Pathfinders as they can do markerlights at end of movement phase (which may include the Reinforcements).
    I dont care about Reinforcements and think the rules would clarify if you can or not and I dont think there would be too much use case for that. So i am ignoring that.

    Remain Stationary is the status the units have if they dont do any of the other movement phase options (which is included in the montka for turns 1-3). So I am arguing that montka does affect the markerlights action for all units that did a ‘normal move’ or ‘advance’, if we start redefining the remains stationary then we will break the game VERY quickly.

    The montka wording is:
    “Each time this unit makes a Normal Move or Advances in your movement phase, it counts as having remained stationary” – from the GW website.

    In this context:
    The pathfinders are the only ones who can “Pathfinders can move then apply Markerlights”. I still think that that means they can ‘move’ being fallback, and then apply Markerlights so other units can shoot into the target unit as well.
    I have not heard an argument that makes sense (without breaking the game) that would prevent them from doing this.

    The wording of the leak is not the best, other aspects of it use the word 'move' and it is assumed that it is 'normal move' by everyone:
    "There is a stratagem that allows a unit to hop out of a devilfish after the devilfish moves". Again I think that this is normal move only (as it would be far too powerful otherwise) and would allow units in devil fish to stage an ork like rush (devilfish 12" normal move, strike/pathfinder team 6-7" move =18">19" of normal move into the enemy deployment and cause havoc there, like charging or blocking paths to delay units).

    On disembarking there is the rule "they never count as having Remained Stationary", not sure how that applies to montka and which one takes precedent. Unless osomeone can clarify that in one line thats a whole new argument i dont want to dip a toe in right now.

    Ignoring the incorrect word 'move' (that shouldnt exist in rules like this) it is clear:
    Aircraft units have to move (for example Remora Stealth Drones have markerlights and movement between 15" and 30" and they can still perform the Markerlights action. (Ignoring 'move', clear and no objections).
    VEHICLE or DRONE keyword units performing the Fire Markerlights action can move without that action failing. (Ignoring 'move', again clear and no objections).
    If it does, until the end of the turn, models in that unit without the VEHICLE or DRONE keyword that are equipped with any markerlights are treated as not being equipped with any markerlights for the purpose of the Fire Markerlights action. (again clear and no objections).
    Pathfinders can move then apply Markerlights. (Ignoring 'move', again clear and no objections).


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    The Markerlights actions are performed in the tau turn from the start / end of the moment phase, depending on the unit and rules, though the psychic phase (for all that psychic that tau are busy doing lol) and are completed before the start of shooting phase.
    This is a very short window and few things would affect it

    The rules on declaring the actions do state:
    “You can declare a unit from your army to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn.”

    Actions are reported to fail if:
    If a unit is destroyed (not relevant to this action as something is not likely to get destroyed between movement and shooting phase).
    makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back (point of discussion here, prearticular Advances and Fall Back for the pathfinders or just Fall Back in the case on montka).
    attempts to manifest a psychic power (again we are tau here, who are you kidding?)
    The action then completes and the rest is irrelevant.
    (declares a charge, performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged weapons are all irrelevant).

    A character unit cannot use any aura abilities while it is performing an action (if the action is failed, their aura abilities immediately take effect again).
    This is not really applicable to tau cases as drones are often the unit with markerlight in character models and most auras are in shooting phase.

    First montka means Normal Move and Advances counts as Remains Stationary for the first 3 turns … so yay for that. This is the whole point of montka,
    Units can normal move and advance in first 3 turns without this action failing.

    The pathfinders action is started after ‘move’ (and we don’t know what that means).
    What we do know is that the line of text about actions failing is now “If a unit, Advances, Falls Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power ~ that action is failed”, so for sure, no argument that the pathfinders can Normal Move or Remains Stationary and do the Markerlights action. Everyone agrees

    “The Pathfinders can ‘move’ and then apply Markerlights”
    Again the wording of the leak is terrible and would be clarified if the phrase “normal move” or “finish movement phase” (which includes Normal Move, Advances, Fall Back, Remains Stationary and re-enforcements) or “move unit” (which includes Normal Move, Advances, Fall Back and Remains Stationary) were used. This is what I would expect to see in the codex.

    Assuming montka we would still need to know if this unit is able to declare / start performing the action relevant to the Fall Back making the pathfinders unable to declare the action.
    Paraphrasing a bit here:
    “You can declare a unit from your army to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it and it did not Fall Back this turn”

    This is the only issue I have with it so far, if the unit is able to declare the action. If the unit is able to declare the action then it does not matter about failing the action on fall back, as it was able to declare it on fall back.

    The wording of the codex is the only ting that would clarify it.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 13:19:29


    Post by: Valkyrie


    So either way I need some more Fire Warriors for the new book, but I'm wondering if there's any reason to take the Carbines over the Rifles. I was pretty confident that they'd be Assault 3 in the new rules, but as they're still Assault 2, I'm struggling to find a use for them besides advancing and firing normally thanks to Mont'ka. Anyone found a use for them?

    Also, I've found a very nice Railgun conversion for my Broadsides that I want to get but it'll be difficult to magnetise to include HYMPs. Anyone seen what the HYMP profile is like and wherever it'll still be the dominant choice for Broadsides?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 13:55:50


    Post by: EightFoldPath


    The best reason I can think of regarding the Carbines not getting buffed for Strike Teams is because other units can take them (Drones/Pathfinders) and they would be too strong there.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 14:08:54


    Post by: Sterling191


     Valkyrie wrote:
    So either way I need some more Fire Warriors for the new book, but I'm wondering if there's any reason to take the Carbines over the Rifles. I was pretty confident that they'd be Assault 3 in the new rules, but as they're still Assault 2, I'm struggling to find a use for them besides advancing and firing normally thanks to Mont'ka. Anyone found a use for them?

    Also, I've found a very nice Railgun conversion for my Broadsides that I want to get but it'll be difficult to magnetise to include HYMPs. Anyone seen what the HYMP profile is like and wherever it'll still be the dominant choice for Broadsides?


    Missile Pods are Assault 2 S7 Ap2 D2. HYMP are Assault 4. They're...okay. They get spanked hard by anything with -1 damage, and are generally outclassed by more specialized weapons.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 14:45:04


    Post by: Valkyrie


    -1 Damage isn't that common outside Dreadnoughts and DG though is it?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 15:28:12


    Post by: Sterling191


    It's proliferating very rapidly across the rulesets. Orks, Tyranids, GSC have easy army-wide access to it and many others have targeted buffs to gain the effect.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 15:40:55


    Post by: Ordana


     Valkyrie wrote:
    -1 Damage isn't that common outside Dreadnoughts and DG though is it?
    Tyranid Crushing Swarm, GSC Abberants, Thousand Sons have a -1D strat, Dark Eldar custom Coven has -1D.

    So yeah I would say -1D has a significant presence and features in some of the top 'Meta' armies enough to build around it.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/26 16:56:50


    Post by: Valkyrie


     Ordana wrote:
     Valkyrie wrote:
    -1 Damage isn't that common outside Dreadnoughts and DG though is it?
    Tyranid Crushing Swarm, GSC Abberants, Thousand Sons have a -1D strat, Dark Eldar custom Coven has -1D.

    So yeah I would say -1D has a significant presence and features in some of the top 'Meta' armies enough to build around it.


    Fair enough then.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/27 00:57:29


    Post by: Twilight Pathways


     Valkyrie wrote:
    -1 Damage isn't that common outside Dreadnoughts and DG though is it?


    Also Squigosaurs, Ork Buggies, Crusher Stampede, Paragon Warsuits, Thousand Sons infantry, Magnus, Lord of Change, Wraithknights, Wraithguard, GSC Aberrants and Abominants, Dark Angels have a relic to give it to all Core within 6", then a load of stuff halves damage including new Avatar, Morvenn Vahl, Calgar, and TS Daemon Prince


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/27 17:42:58


    Post by: Sazzlefrats


    Twilight Pathways wrote:
     Valkyrie wrote:
    -1 Damage isn't that common outside Dreadnoughts and DG though is it?


    Also Squigosaurs, Ork Buggies, Crusher Stampede, Paragon Warsuits, Thousand Sons infantry, Magnus, Lord of Change, Wraithknights, Wraithguard, GSC Aberrants and Abominants, Dark Angels have a relic to give it to all Core within 6", then a load of stuff halves damage including new Avatar, Morvenn Vahl, Calgar, and TS Daemon Prince



    And Wraithseer... lol


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/27 23:14:09


    Post by: Mandragola


    Markerlights are an interesting one now. The fact that they're an action started at the beginning of the movement phase introduces some difficulties. You now can't use a markerlight on the turn you arrive from reinforcements or get out of a transport, because you weren't there at the start of the phase. You also can't move and fire one... except the only people that actually applies to are squad leaders. Drones, vehicles and pathfinders can all run around and markerlight stuff all day.

    Pathfinders have a unique ability to markerlight something starting at the end of the movement phase rather than the beginning. So they actually can get out of a devilfish or come out of reserve and light things up if they want.

    So just bear in mind that a markerlight on a crisis team that's deep striking won't do anything. You'll want some on units that are actually deployed.

    I couldn't see a lot of point in Breachers in this codex, when standard fire warriors have such a good gun. I think I'm reassessing that though, due to the guardian drone. That stops anything from wounding on a 1-3, giving your little T3 fire warriors perma-transhuman. That's pretty good, I think.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/27 23:42:53


    Post by: Twilight Pathways


    Mandragola wrote:
    the guardian drone. That stops anything from wounding on a 1-3, giving your little T3 fire warriors perma-transhuman. That's pretty good, I think.


    1-2. It's only a mini-transhuman, like Black Templars.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/27 23:43:44


    Post by: Ordana


    Games of 9th are fought over mid field objectives. Breachers in Devilfishes can get to the mid field objectives, score them and remove whatever is on them all at the same time, allowing your other elements to free range to clear enemy home objectives or remove threats.

    And while you can do the same with strike teams the extra str and ap from breachers is a sizeable different.

    Both can take a guardian drone tho, so I don't think that is a difference between the 2?



    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/28 00:12:55


    Post by: Sterling191


    S6 AP2-4 with no cover and rerolling wounds will do serious work into nearly any defensive profile in the game. They're a far more specialized unit than Strikes, but they do the job exceedingly well.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/28 13:30:42


    Post by: EightFoldPath


    Breachers seem good for trading, you clear the point and claim it, but then get cleared and claimed back next turn.

    Strikes can hold a backfield objective (without risking losing it to one obsec enemy) and might be able to occasionally pop out and shoot with their range if the enemy can't shoot back.

    Crisis and Stealth look interesting if you want something obsec (several ways to get it) on a mid point that might actually survive.

    Riptides and Ghostkeels look slightly interesting if you want something to stay on a backfield objective if it has no obscuring you can hide in.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/28 13:55:47


    Post by: Valkyrie


    Good thing we're discussing Breachers. I got a good deal on some second hand FWs, including 10x unbuilt ones. I already have 20x Rifles and 10x Carbines, would it be worth making Breachers of the unbuilt ones, or should I stick with the Rifles? I imagine Breachers to be an "all out or nothing" unit.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/29 16:00:34


    Post by: dan2026


    How are people feeling about Plasma Rifles now.

    30" S8 AP -4 D3 for five points seems solid.
    Just one shot though.



    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/29 20:30:06


    Post by: Razerous


    I think the main suit loads will be;

    Dual BC + Flamer 55pts for 11.5-13.5 str4/5 hits inside of 16".

    Cyclic/Fusion/Plasma 60pts for 5 high strength high damage shots.

    All including a shield gen. YMMV with other support systems.

    The key for most of the suits will be delivery - If stealth suits can infiltrate up the board turn 1 and if a Coldstar allows turn 1 deep striking during the movement phase (i.e. not the command phase).. then there is some serious potential. The perks for getting within 18" or 12" turn 1/2 are huge.

    Borkan commanders can make high RoF weapons really deadly with the ability to get pluses to wound, multiple sources of extra AP and full re-rolls to hit/wound. Or just, y'know, 3 fusion guns and a gauntlet. Slap down some hurt.



    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/29 23:22:52


    Post by: CKO


    If I wasn't a Necron I would run at least 1-2 large squads of Crisis Suits with 2xAirbusting Frags and 1 flamer and multi-tracker so the combo works like this with Mont'ka. You will have 12d6 str 4 ap 2 dmg 1 shots that ignore line sight re-roll 1's to hit due to a commander and re-roll 1's to wound due to Mont'ka, possibly exploding 6's with multi-tracker. They increased the range of AFP's by 6 and the ap by 1 and with Mont'ka you can advance and not worry about your bs. As you have these two units constantly getting closer eventually you will be in charge range/flamer range. If you charge the crisis suits you will have to deal with their overwatch which will have 6d6+12 str 4 flamer hits, and you will get to use the flamers offensively next turn.

    Add a coldstar commander to give the crisis units auto-advance of 8 inches, I think that is a 40-inch threat range with the crisis units. Sprinkle in 60 point Kroot troop squads who have pregame movement for objectives. I would take Bork'an for the extra 4 inches on the AFP and the -1 str under 7 ability for durability if you can not stay out of the line of sight, or Farsight Enclave if you want the extra bs. Two Hammerheads because railguns are the best weapon in the game. Sprinkle in some form of marker lights and you are done.

    "Accordingly, the Mont’ka Tactical Philosophy rewards decisive action in the first three turns, allowing its warriors to rapidly advance into enemy lines and blaze away with powerful close-range firepower."[I]

    You get to play this army just like they envision!

    I would literally kill whatever enemy unit is closest each turn while destroying any vehicle equivalent with the railguns that dare to get in the line of sight of my hammerheads. Attacking while out of line of sight is easier as it is 6 models instead of 9 and if I can't hide the weapons are 24(28) inches and with the coldstar I can move them 18 inches. I would probably take a plasma rifle/fusion blaster crisis squad and 1 unit of Broadsides to help the hammerheads.

    This is what I would do.

    Do you have to kill 12 drones before a single crisis suit die?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/29 23:53:54


    Post by: bmsattler


    Question: Would Longstrike's granting a markerlight to a nearby tank allow a Skyray to shoot out of LOS with the strat?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/31 13:15:21


    Post by: Valkyrie


    I'm surprised at what plasma is now, was expecting Assault 2 S6 D2, but as I'm typing this I guess that'd just make them obsolete compared to Missile Pods.

    Had a skim through the Codex leak, and I'm wondering what the typical loadouts for Crisis teams will be. I like how the new points encourages you to mix and match, so I'm considering a BC/FB loadout on the majority of the suits. Keeps them relatively cheap as I suspect they'll still die pretty quickly.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/31 13:56:03


    Post by: Sterling191


     Valkyrie wrote:

    Had a skim through the Codex leak, and I'm wondering what the typical loadouts for Crisis teams will be. I like how the new points encourages you to mix and match, so I'm considering a BC/FB loadout on the majority of the suits. Keeps them relatively cheap as I suspect they'll still die pretty quickly.


    It's really going to come down to force composition, and the role you have in mind for the Crisis team. For an all-rounder my brain is coalescing towards BC / Flamer + Plasma + Fusion / CIB. But then again I'm also looking at an Enclaves list that jettisons infantry entirely and brings nothing but Battlesuits, so YMMV.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/01/31 14:34:15


    Post by: Dendarien


    I like double plasma missile pod myself.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 16:15:15


    Post by: dan2026


    So looking at the new rules Crisis Suits can now take three weapons AND a support system.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 16:36:43


    Post by: bullyboy


    I had mine mostly mixed before anyway, but they all only have 2 weapon systems. debating adding a 3rd cheap one for 5pts.
    Current loadout was..
    1 dual fusion
    2 cyclic/missile pod
    2 burst cannon/missile pod
    1 Frag launcher/burst cannon

    so obviously I may want to add some plasma in there, probably on the 2 cyclic platforms. I also have 3 unbuilt suits I can play with too


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 17:35:28


    Post by: Esmer


    How does that loadout sound for a Mont'Ka doctrine Bor'kan Coldstar Commander:

    High-Output Burst Cannon
    Burst Cannon
    Shield Generator
    Onager Gauntlet

    Seeker of Perfection
    Overdrive Power System

    means:

    6 shots with S 5, AP -2, +1 to wound rerolling 1s, Mortals on 6s
    10 shots with S 5, AP -3, + 1 to wound rerolling 1s, Mortals on 6s, with the option of ignoring invlns (thanks to the strat)

    I figure that with Bor'Kan's traits, you'll want to prioritize high fire volume over high S and/or D.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 17:49:13


    Post by: Sterling191


    The Fist(tm) is a Relic so you've still got a hardpoint slot to allocate.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 18:00:49


    Post by: Esmer


    Cool. Fusion Blaster (as he'll be prancing near the enemy anyways) it is.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 18:17:41


    Post by: Sterling191


    If you really want to lean into the memery, consider the Prototype burst cannon option for the non-HO. 8 shots and natively punching through FNPs or wound caps is not to be sneezed at, but might be more optimally paired with Precision of the Hunter for reliable output against tougher targets.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 18:22:39


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    It feels really good having 12 Crisis Suits fully magnetized right now. I'm so indecisive, and it feels like they'll be a core to any 9th list (pardon the pun) but loadouts will change constantly with the meta.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 19:09:43


    Post by: dan2026


     Dendarien wrote:
    I like double plasma missile pod myself.

    I'm thinking 2 Missile, 1 Plasma.
    But there are so many options I have no idea really.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 19:31:53


    Post by: Ordana


    to much -1D in the game for me to feel good about double missile pod. Especially when its 10 pts more expensive then double Plasma.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/01 20:34:02


    Post by: Dendarien


    I tried triple plasma, but the extra 15 points per suit for one more gun just felt kind of bad.

    I'm going to try a 6 suit unit with 2x plasma, 1 missile pod, a bunch of shield generators, and 1 Iridium suit with the stimm injector.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/02 17:43:54


    Post by: bedivere


    Has anyone looked at the custom septs and how exactly it works when selecting traits (any limitations on there)?

    Also i was thinking i quite like the new darkstrider but i have the old one already.
    If i got the new one, can i use the old darkstrider as a Pathfinder Shasui?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/02 23:31:53


    Post by: Ordana


    if you take a custom sept based on the base septs you get the tenant, Warlord trait and stratagem.

    For this reason I actually really like the idea of a custom Farsight Sept.

    You get the ML within 12", re-roll a wound and you get Drop Zone Clear (+ WLT but I don't like it that much) but since your not actually FSE you can still take Ethereals (but not 2 commanders or Farsight)

    For the truly custom septs you pick any of the traits from those listed and then a 2nd trait from an adjacent sector, as shown in the picture.
    So if you take a trait from Sector D, you can take a 2nd trait from Sector A or E.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/02 23:47:25


    Post by: carldooley


    So, who is going to start a T'au 9.5 ed Tactica thread?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/03 09:48:51


    Post by: bedivere


    The Pathfinders can start the Markerlights action at the end of movement phase
    The movement phase includes Normal Move, Advances, Fall Back, Remains Stationary and re-enforcements
    (Normal Move, Remains Stationary and re-enforcements are all OK for pathfinders to apply Markerlights action).

    The actions wont fail due to Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back as these steps have already passed before the action is started (re-enforcements is not even mentioned).

    The rules on declaring the actions do state:
    “You can declare a unit from your army to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn.”
    The Advances step can be covered by montka to count as Remains Stationary in the first 3 turns.

    The Fall Back step may still be an issue preventing the Pathfinders from even declaring the Markerlights action

    I was hoping the codex would clarify that, but from what I have seen it does not, so I am now thinking that Pathfinders cannot Fall Back then declare the Markerlights action.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/04 05:18:02


    Post by: Yaktan


     Dendarien wrote:
    I tried triple plasma, but the extra 15 points per suit for one more gun just felt kind of bad.

    I'm going to try a 6 suit unit with 2x plasma, 1 missile pod, a bunch of shield generators, and 1 Iridium suit with the stimm injector.


    I also am going to run a squad of plasma, plasma, missile suits. Partially because they do look like a decent choice, but mostly because I have a squad I built in 8th edition that I want to run.

    I have also been thinking about what other loadouts I like, and the more I run the math, the more I like a trio with two flamers each. (Have a squad built with two flamers each, but not painted yet.) The trick I am having is deciding what to run as the third weapon. Six flamers in Mont'ka is very nice for toasting all sorts of infantry; so I am a little leery of bringing burst cannons, even though they would compliment the flamers in target selection since the flamers by themselves will overkill anything lighter than a full squad of marines. Missile pods are an idea, to give range for target selection as well as looking better as shoulder mounts... (which are the reasons my plasma suits have missile pods already...)


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/04 10:25:01


    Post by: Ordana


    Airbursts.

    They complement the flamers if you need more shots and allow you to threaten units outside of LoS if the flamers can handle the primary target.

    And they also look good on shoulder mounts (imo)


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/04 11:22:02


    Post by: Spectral Ceramite


    Crisis suits is why I collected Tau and its great they seem good again (they have that Exo suit feel, 80's cartoon). I think they will get a points hike, but my first list I want to try has around 20 (I have like 20 crisis & 20 crisis bodyguard all magnetised to play with so why not ).

    My fav combo's (for my battle plans) are:

    • Crisis Bodyguard unit, all have: Missile pod, Cyclic iron, Airburst projector, Shield (65 each)
    Are near one of my commanders for re-roll ones for the cyclic.

    • Normal Crisis: Missile pod, Plasma rifle, Airburst projector, Shield (55 each)
    Have the versatility to do what I need.

    I have other units of them equipped differently depends on the role I want but I think these combos are my fav. At the current point cost, 1 Airburst projector per suit is mandatory for me (every crisis has an Airburst except the commanders, hit out of Los is so good that why not, gives all of them options).


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/05 01:05:13


    Post by: bedivere


    can i sit the fireblade or marksman in the tau fortification (open topped transport) and have them perform an action like markerlight (meaning they can move the fortificaiton, count aas remains staionary and not fail the markerlight action)?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/05 13:59:26


    Post by: Singleton Mosby


    We have seen quite some interesting leaks so far. What I am wondering about is our big flyers, the barracuda and the tiger sharks. Which of those do we expect to be viable and what loadout looks good?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/05 14:49:50


    Post by: Sterling191


    bedivere wrote:
    can i sit the fireblade or marksman in the tau fortification (open topped transport) and have them perform an action like markerlight (meaning they can move the fortificaiton, count aas remains staionary and not fail the markerlight action)?


    You cannot do actions while embarked. The Tidewalls have a specific datasheet ability that allows embarked units to perform the "Move the Gubbins" action, but nothing else.

     Singleton Mosby wrote:
    We have seen quite some interesting leaks so far. What I am wondering about is our big flyers, the barracuda and the tiger sharks. Which of those do we expect to be viable and what loadout looks good?


    Barring radical points changes and wargear FAQs (which after seeing none of in the Dataslate FAQs this week are unlikely in the short term) none of them.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/05 18:03:07


    Post by: bedivere


    Sterling191 wrote:
    bedivere wrote:
    can i sit the fireblade or marksman in the tau fortification (open topped transport) and have them perform an action like markerlight (meaning they can move the fortificaiton, count aas remains staionary and not fail the markerlight action)?


    You cannot do actions while embarked. The Tidewalls have a specific datasheet ability that allows embarked units to perform the "Move the Gubbins" action, but nothing else.


    I have been informed (by someone who has the codex presently) that the tau fortificaitons do have actions.

    I dont have a codex (yet) but though that seemd a bit OP maybe, unless there was a limitation on the action/s performed (assuing you could not fill it with units each doing different stuff).
    So was just asking if the fortificaitons allow markerlights (or if there are limitations on actions).

    So the action is just to make the thing move now? (whcih was not an action before), seems a bit pointless


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/05 21:32:04


    Post by: CKO


    To move the fortification requires action by an embarked unit at the end of the movement phase it can move 8 with fly.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 14:21:34


    Post by: Eldenfirefly


    So, the wording for Mont'ka reads "Each time a model in this unit makes a ranged attack that targets the closest eligible unit within the range shown below, improve the armour penetration characteristic of that attack by 1 and reroll a wound roll of 1."

    So .. .my question is... does Mont'ka apply when a Tau unit overwatch (Assuming we are in Mont'ka turn 1,2 or 3)? So, overwatch is a ranged attack right?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 16:27:05


    Post by: pumaman1


    So . Someone in a T'au Facebook group I am in is reading the rules... Generously. But amusingly.

    He notes all drones have manta strike, manta strike doesn't contain the same language as deathwatch where everyone on the unit has to have it to apply. He is postulating any unit that has drones as an add on, such as broadsides, could manta strike in, Raw. Thematically, a railgun broadside with a drone beneath each foot surfing down.

    I enjoy, but don't agree with the thought (could be a fun Break Point narrative game) but wanted to let the DakkaDakka members discuss as I don't have the dex in hand yet


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 16:46:29


    Post by: bullyboy


    Quick question for you guys/gals out there.
    This is my current 5 man crisis suit team (not bodyguard)

    iridium suit, AFP, BC, shield, counterfire
    2 suits, CIB, MP, target lock
    2 suits, MP, BC, target lock.
    Plus accompanying drones.

    So my bullet magnet has all his stations filled, but the other 4 suits still have one weapon slot remaining. I'm for sure putting plasma rifles on the CIB/MP suits, but not sure if I should put plasmas on the other 2, or maybe a flamer each. Leaning strongly toward plasma. Maybe even a second burst cannon. Thoughts?

    Also, what are you guys doing with Coldstars? Seems like they are not as good as they used to be. I'm thinking maybe Ghost walks among us WT for 20" move, with Internal Grenade Racks. My current dude had 3 fusions and a shield, but that's not looking like a good choice anymore. Maybe just go 2 fusion, shield, and Positional relay?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 17:53:51


    Post by: A Town Called Malus


     pumaman1 wrote:
    So . Someone in a T'au Facebook group I am in is reading the rules... Generously. But amusingly.

    He notes all drones have manta strike, manta strike doesn't contain the same language as deathwatch where everyone on the unit has to have it to apply. He is postulating any unit that has drones as an add on, such as broadsides, could manta strike in, Raw. Thematically, a railgun broadside with a drone beneath each foot surfing down.

    I enjoy, but don't agree with the thought (could be a fun Break Point narrative game) but wanted to let the DakkaDakka members discuss as I don't have the dex in hand yet




    RAW I think he may be correct. This interpretation may also apply to drones docked on vehicles, allowing for deepstriking Devilfish, Skyrays and Hammerheads, depending on how you interpret "does not count as a model on the battlefield for any rules purposes" with regards to affecting their manta strike ability. This will get FAQ'd in short order.

    Whilst a deep striking Broadside is a funny thing to picture, I'm not sure it has a huge impact on the game as the targets your XV88s are typically going to be hunting will find hiding tricky on many tables. They've got 30" range on their secondary weapons and no benefit for getting within any range bracket so range isn't a huge issue when it comes to maximising firepower.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 17:54:10


    Post by: carldooley


     pumaman1 wrote:
    So . Someone in a T'au Facebook group I am in is reading the rules... Generously. But amusingly.

    He notes all drones have manta strike, manta strike doesn't contain the same language as deathwatch where everyone on the unit has to have it to apply. He is postulating any unit that has drones as an add on, such as broadsides, could manta strike in, Raw. Thematically, a railgun broadside with a drone beneath each foot surfing down.

    I enjoy, but don't agree with the thought (could be a fun Break Point narrative game) but wanted to let the DakkaDakka members discuss as I don't have the dex in hand yet


    Looks legit. But if that is the correct interpretation, expect an errata post haste.
    Edit: ninja'd


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 20:32:34


    Post by: Sterling191


     A Town Called Malus wrote:

    Whilst a deep striking Broadside is a funny thing to picture, I'm not sure it has a huge impact on the game as the targets your XV88s are typically going to be hunting will find hiding tricky on many tables. They've got 30" range on their secondary weapons and no benefit for getting within any range bracket so range isn't a huge issue when it comes to maximising firepower.


    Farsight Broadsides Drop Zone Clearing (the strat works for any Battlesuit unit dropping out of Manta Strike) for full hit and wound rerolls for the budget price of 2 CP is gonna make a dent in just about anything.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 21:08:48


    Post by: CKO


     pumaman1 wrote:
    So . Someone in a T'au Facebook group I am in is reading the rules... Generously. But amusingly.

    He notes all drones have manta strike, manta strike doesn't contain the same language as deathwatch where everyone on the unit has to have it to apply. He is postulating any unit that has drones as an add on, such as broadsides, could manta strike in, Raw. Thematically, a railgun broadside with a drone beneath each foot surfing down.

    I enjoy, but don't agree with the thought (could be a fun Break Point narrative game) but wanted to let the DakkaDakka members discuss as I don't have the dex in hand yet


    It never ceases to amaze me when people try to bend the rules. Broadsides are one of the best units in the codex, but getting shooting angles is hard I think they can deep strike because they have drones? Everything in the codex has drones, silly!


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 21:39:03


    Post by: pumaman1


    Sterling191 wrote:
     A Town Called Malus wrote:

    Whilst a deep striking Broadside is a funny thing to picture, I'm not sure it has a huge impact on the game as the targets your XV88s are typically going to be hunting will find hiding tricky on many tables. They've got 30" range on their secondary weapons and no benefit for getting within any range bracket so range isn't a huge issue when it comes to maximising firepower.


    Farsight Broadsides Drop Zone Clearing (the strat works for any Battlesuit unit dropping out of Manta Strike) for full hit and wound rerolls for the budget price of 2 CP is gonna make a dent in just about anything.


    With ATS to auto wound on 6s with hymp and sms, maybe mont ka for ap-3 on top of that...


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/06 21:48:11


    Post by: carldooley


     CKO wrote:
     pumaman1 wrote:
    So . Someone in a T'au Facebook group I am in is reading the rules... Generously. But amusingly.

    He notes all drones have manta strike, manta strike doesn't contain the same language as deathwatch where everyone on the unit has to have it to apply. He is postulating any unit that has drones as an add on, such as broadsides, could manta strike in, Raw. Thematically, a railgun broadside with a drone beneath each foot surfing down.

    I enjoy, but don't agree with the thought (could be a fun Break Point narrative game) but wanted to let the DakkaDakka members discuss as I don't have the dex in hand yet


    It never ceases to amaze me when people try to bend the rules. Broadsides are one of the best units in the codex, but getting shooting angles is hard I think they can deep strike because they have drones? Everything in the codex has drones, silly!

    Hey! If tau players are willing to pay the CP tax and the right tactical philosophy, and don't instalose if they deploy nothing, who are you to say they are doing it wrong?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 00:43:03


    Post by: Eldenfirefly


    So, I have been thinking about the fight over the midfield objectives. What about using a Riptide or even better, a Stormsurge to sit on a midpoint objective and tank everything?

    I mean, pound for pound, a Riptide with 5+ FNP or a Stormsurge with its T8, 4++, 2+ is one of the toughest thing out there to shift even in melee by far within the Tau codex. And with Mont'ka giving advance and still able to shoot everything. Its quite possible to literally T1 advance onto a midfield objective with a massive Stormsurge or a Riptide.

    So, instead of keeping these things safe, the idea is to be aggressive with them and plonk them down on a midpoint objective, ideally if its between a gap between two ruins or terrain.

    We will of course back them up with our crisis suits, commanders and shooting. But the thing is, they are the ones most likely to survive any melee charge, and they can kind of "hold the line". Their massive bulk also means that they take up lots of nice real estate on the objective point so your opponent can't fit models onto the point unless he kills off your stormsurge or Riptide.

    Now, this isn't to say they can't be killed. But when we advance our Riptide or Stormsurge onto that point, we can pretty much clear the immediate area around it with all the shooting we have. So, this reduces the available forces to charge and get into melee with them the next turn.

    A Stormsurge is probably better than the Riptide in this case because it can literally use its walking battleship rule to fall back and continue to fire with all guns. But a Riptide can just stand in place and shoot with a minus 1 penalty to hold the line.

    Hmm, by the way, can a Stormsurge that is stuck in combat still do its action to "deploy anchors" for the reroll to hit on all its shooting assuming we don't even want to take a single step back?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 00:51:45


    Post by: pumaman1


    Eldenfirefly wrote:
    So, I have been thinking about the fight over the midfield objectives. What about using a Riptide or even better, a Stormsurge to sit on a midpoint objective and tank everything?

    I mean, pound for pound, a Riptide with 5+ FNP or a Stormsurge with its T8, 4++, 2+ is one of the toughest thing out there to shift even in melee by far within the Tau codex. And with Mont'ka giving advance and still able to shoot everything. Its quite possible to literally T1 advance onto a midfield objective with a massive Stormsurge or a Riptide.

    So, instead of keeping these things safe, the idea is to be aggressive with them and plonk them down on a midpoint objective, ideally if its between a gap between two ruins or terrain.

    We will of course back them up with our crisis suits, commanders and shooting. But the thing is, they are the ones most likely to survive any melee charge, and they can kind of "hold the line". Their massive bulk also means that they take up lots of nice real estate on the objective point so your opponent can't fit models onto the point unless he kills off your stormsurge or Riptide.

    Now, this isn't to say they can't be killed. But when we advance our Riptide or Stormsurge onto that point, we can pretty much clear the immediate area around it with all the shooting we have. So, this reduces the available forces to charge and get into melee with them the next turn.

    A Stormsurge is probably better than the Riptide in this case because it can literally use its walking battleship rule to fall back and continue to fire with all guns. But a Riptide can just stand in place and shoot with a minus 1 penalty to hold the line.

    Hmm, by the way, can a Stormsurge that is stuck in combat still do its action to "deploy anchors" for the reroll to hit on all its shooting assuming we don't even want to take a single step back?

    Have a friendly neighborhood ghost keep nearby with some stealth drones just to make it so no across the board shooting is allowed but any pesky basilisks or bubble chuckas


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 00:52:53


    Post by: Eldenfirefly


    So one more question. How are we handling the super fast melee type armies at this stage? Just shoot them before they reach us? Eldar is coming out, and even before this, Drukhari can easily make armies that can advance and charge into combat given its literally in their power from pain table.

    Custodes Bikes also move 14 inches and there is probably some kind of sub faction or kata or rules that let them advance and charge if they want to.

    In any case, if the opponent throws enough fast units up the table, some of them will get their charges in. Its not like we can shoot off their entire army in one round.

    So, how do we handle the fast threats that do get melee with us? Partly, when I mentioned Stormsurge or Riptides being able to tank melee charges above, I was thinking about this issue also.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     pumaman1 wrote:
    Eldenfirefly wrote:
    So, I have been thinking about the fight over the midfield objectives. What about using a Riptide or even better, a Stormsurge to sit on a midpoint objective and tank everything?

    Hmm, by the way, can a Stormsurge that is stuck in combat still do its action to "deploy anchors" for the reroll to hit on all its shooting assuming we don't even want to take a single step back?

    Have a friendly neighborhood ghost keep nearby with some stealth drones just to make it so no across the board shooting is allowed but any pesky basilisks or bubble chuckas


    What? a Ghostkeel and stealth suit can prevent across the board shooting? I must have missed something...

    In any case, it still doesn't prevent them charging onto the midboard objectives or from fast units trying to charge into our units.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 01:27:25


    Post by: ihockert


    Solar Watch is the only subfaction of Custodes that can give advance and charge and it requires a specific WLT and can only be applied to infantry.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 01:30:26


    Post by: Sterling191


    ihockert wrote:
    Solar Watch is the only subfaction of Custodes that can give advance and charge and it requires a specific WLT and can only be applied to infantry.


    Be more worried about Emissaries giving bikes a pregame move.

    Eldenfirefly wrote:

    What? a Ghostkeel and stealth suit can prevent across the board shooting? I must have missed something...


    Ghostkeels themselves cannot be shot (depending on ranges and available other targets), they don't prevent other units from being ineligible to be shot.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 01:49:19


    Post by: pumaman1


    Not stealth suit, but stealth drones, I misread the leaks (again, no codex in hand) that they gave "a unit" the ability to not be targeted outside of 18" etc. But it's "this unit" ie gjostkeel only, though can break the drones off with a strategem if you really wanted to burn a cp


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 02:21:29


    Post by: Wyldhunt


    Still absorbing the new book, but I like what I'm seeing. I haven't really fielded my tau collection in battle yet, but I'm keen to make an auxiliaries-heavy list work given that I have about 40 kroot, 10 hounds, a shaper, and 2 krootox in my collection.

    Any thoughts on how to get the most out of our auxiliary units? Dal'yth seems like it should be the obvious choice, but I'm wondering if it's a bit of a trap. Kroot benefitting from Kauyon seems okay, but strike teams probably do suicidal first turn forward sprints better. The warlord trait is also okay (let kroot/vespids benefit from markerlights) is also okay, but the short range means I'd have to clump together any units that I want to benefit from it. And the Outflank strat, while flavorful, seems like it would be way more useful for non-auxiliaries given that kroot have their scout move and vespid can deepstrike. Basically, it seems like Dal'yth has to "use up" its warlord trait and sept trait slots to give units benefits that armies without auxiliaries already have to begin with. And investing heavily into buffs for kroot/vespid seems like it detracts from the advantage of their low base cost. I like that my kroot seem to be pretty good at surging forward or sitting back and countercharging. I don't know if I care all that much about letting the kroot shoot slightly better.

    Seems like I might be better off going with a sept that isn't afraid to throw some of its fire warriors and battle suits forward so that I can get the most out of the kroots' melee abilities?

    Also, does it seem like the "2-3" in the Disengagement Protocols custom sept trait might be a typo? Seems weird that 2, 3, and 6 are the numbers that matter, not 2-5 and 6.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 02:29:58


    Post by: Eldenfirefly


    The way I see it. Any well designed 9th edition list these days will play the secondaries well no matter what the opponent do. So its also about how well we play the primaries. And from what I have observed, Tau have problems holding onto mid board objectives.

    We can easily shoot someone off an exposed objective, but we can't hold on to it if its empty. And in a game where its sticky objectives, even shooting a unit off that objective means it still belongs to our opponent.

    We could possibly keep on advancing cheap kroot or even breacher team or strike team onto a midpoint. But again, lets not kid ourselves, they are not going to hold onto a midpoint objective if they get shot and then charged by anything decent.

    I suppose we could play the denial strategy and the trading game. Kroot are cheap. So keep on shooting units off midpoint objectives and then advancing kroot onto them. But this then ends up being a low scoring point game. And well, some people don't like that. They want to be able to score well too.

    So, thoughts about what to do about primaries? I mean, before people jump in to say Tau are OP, S tier and what not, they have to be able to compete in Primary objectives. If Tau lists at most only achieve parity on primaries, not sure if they can be considered "S" tier.

    Right now, I don't have much problems designing a list that ticks all the boxes on secondaries. But primaries are going to be a bit of a challenge. Hence my post above about using Riptides or even a stormsurge to stand on a midpoint objective with their huge bulk.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/07 09:10:30


    Post by: A Town Called Malus


    Enforcer commander alongside a crisis team with shield drones

    Enforcer can give objective secured to the crisis unit and the shield drones provide tanky ablative wounds to the crisis team as well as extra models for determining control of the objective. Give those crisis suits a couple flamers and a burst cannon and anything which gets close is toast, while the enforcer commander can be equipped with high damage weapons like plasma and fusion to deal with more heavily armoured threats.

    A unit of 3 crisis with 2 flamers, a burst cannon and an ewo, 1 with iridium, with 6 shield drones is 227 points. That is 9 objective secured models with a total of 24 wounds. If you combine it with a custom sept with the "battlesuits count as X models for controlling objectives" trait then it becomes 15 objective secured models. You can also use bodyguards to make the commander untargetable by ranged attacks at the cost of 15 extra points.

    On overwatch they put out 6d6+6 (average of 27) autohits from the flamers, and with the ewo will average 6 hits from the burst cannons. So that is around 27 s4 hits and 6 s5 hits. Under mont'ka, those hits are also likely to be ap-1 and reroll 1s to wound. If the enemy survives the overwatch and gets into combat they then have to get through the drones before they can actually cause meaningful casualties (drones don't count for morale checks, so allocate attacks to them first), and come your next turn you open up on them with your guns again, this time hitting on 4s with the burst cannons (and if Farsight Enclaves then you get +1 to hit as the enemy is within 12")

    Or load up 3 units of fire warriors in devilfish, 1 also with a fireblade, in mont'ka philosophy. Pregame you have the 9" move, then 1st turn you pop combat debarkation to allow 3 devilfish to move before units disembark, giving you an extra 12" plus 3" disembark (assuming you get 1st turn, reduce move as appropriate if going 2nd and devilfish got shot). Put the fire warriors behind the devilfish on the objective and use the fish to block attack angles, similar to the old fish of fury tactic. You can also use on-board sensors strat to get re-roll 1s to hit with any fire warrior squads within 6" of the chosen devilfish against a single enemy unit on that turn (as the fireblade won't have been able to use their command action due to being in the devilfish in the command phase). This combos nicely with the Decisive Action secondary objective if you can grab half of the objectives on the board to get you an extra 4 VPs right off the bat as that secondary triggers at the end of your turn. There are very few objectives you cannot grab turn 1 using this tactic.

    EDIT: Looking through the strats to see which ones leap out and what kind of usage you can get from them.

    Recon Sweep I think is very good. 1CP for effectively JSJ for pathfinders when using their markerlights, as well as a +1 to the markerlight roll (so getting tokens on a 2+ rather than a 3+). Very nice for keeping your markerlights alive by allowing you to make use of obscuring cover after they have done their job. Without this strat, I'm not sure I see pathfinders as particularly being worth it over Marker Drones. We only need 1 markerlight per unit shooting at an enemy now, so a couple of minimum-small units of marker drones who are faster than pathfinders and can fly, as well as being tougher than pathfinders seems to be the better choice.

    Orbital Ion Beam I can see some use for this as a kind of area denial weapon. Put the line just in front of one of your units on an objective (or in front of where your unit will be after you move that turn), such that an enemy which charges you will have to be in the path of the beam come your next command phase. Might make your opponent think twice about charging, especially if the unit on that objective can put out some high damage overwatch (crisis team). 2cp is maybe a bit pricy but deterring an enemy charge could be worth it in certain situations. Can also be used to make sure that an enemy may be hurt if they move to claim an unclaimed objective.

    Strike and Fade. 1/2cp for JSJ on jet pack units. Speaks for itself.

    Backup AI: 1cp to count as being the full-wounds bracket. Very good for getting that final turn of shooting from your big suits or hammerhead before it bites the dust.

    Counterfire Defence System: reduce damage of an attack to 1 when it is allocated to a model with the CDS keyword in the enemy shooting phase. Combining this with the Solid-Image Projection Unit relic (4+ invulnerable save, reduce damage of first unsaved attack per turn to 0, does not replace any wargear so saves you a hardpoint by not having to buying a shield generator) and the Stimm Injectors prototype system can make for a very tanky commander, especially if said commander is in Enforcer armour for natural -1 damage. As there's no restriction on which attack this can be used on, like there is with the SIPU, this allows you to absorb small arms fire intended to trigger the SIPU and still have damage mitigation in your pocket to tank a lascannon and the like.

    EDIT 2: Found something which will likely need an FAQ. The Point-Blank Volley strat, used at the beginning of the shooting phase, makes pulse blasters/rifles/carbines count as pistol 2 for a unit in engagement range of an enemy. The Relentless Fusillade strat, used when a strike team is selected to shoot, says that pulse rifles make double the number of attacks rather than following the normal rules for rapid fire weapons, as well as increasing AP by 1. So, what happens if you use both of these strats on the same unit? RAW I think it will be pistol 4 pulse rifles as you are satisfying the "not follow normal rules for rapid fire weapons" part of Relentless Fusillade when they become Pistol 2, even though I doubt that is the RAI.

    EDIT 3: Oof, the Skyray is a monster when attacking aircraft. +2 to the hit roll, re-roll damage, and a single re-roll to hit from the targeting array. Plus if you hit their aircraft with a markerlight you can use Frequency Lock strat to attack from out of LOS and get +1 to wound which will most likely put you at 2+ to wound.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 08:47:15


    Post by: bedivere


    On a slight side note on this, I am tempted to use the manta strike for drones into battle in a couple of cases.

    I have been in a couple of situatiuons where i may be able to fit most but not all models in a deployment placement.

    Now the new marksman unit also includes 3 sniper drones (for 70 pts) and the drones have manta strike.

    It is tempting, if ever in that situation where i may fit 1 small infantry unit in deployment (but not a full squad), to run the new marksman unit in that spot and then hope you can manta the drones in within 6" of the marksman.
    Idealy near an objective.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 10:11:16


    Post by: Valkyrie


    Got a 1500pt game coming up on Sunday against one of my regular mates, could really use some advice on the list and general tactics as
    - a: It's my first time ever using Tau
    - b: I haven't played a game of 9th in almost a year, so pretty rusty.

    I highly suspect he'll be bringing Custodes. His list against a BT/DW force yesterday consisted of:

    Blade Champion
    Shield Captain
    Allarus Captain

    8x Custodians
    5x Custodians
    4x Prosecutors
    5x Sagittarum

    3x Allarus
    Contemptor Galatus
    Allarus Vexilla

    3x Venatari
    5x Witchseekers

    Now this is a 2k list so he won't be using all of this but I think his general tactic is to apply multiple buffs to a select number of units (mainly the Allarus and 8x Guardians) to render them very resilient. With this in mind I've come up with the following list.

    Cadre Fireblade
    Enforcer Commander - Precision of the Hunter, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Thermo Projector, Onager Gauntlet, 2x Shield Drones

    10x Breachers
    10x Pulse Rifles - 1x Marker Drone
    10x Pulse Rifles - 1x Marker Drone

    3x Crisis Suits - CIB, Missiles, Plasma, Shield Generator, 2x Marker Drones, 3x Shield Drones
    3x Crisis Suits - Burst Cannon, 2x Flamers, Shield Generator, 4x Shield Drones
    Firesight Marksman - 3x Sniper Drones

    2x Broadsides - HRR, SMS, 2x Marker Drones, 2x Shield Drones
    Hammerhead - Accelerator Cannons

    2x Remora Drones

    Anyone have any thoughts on general tactics, strats, Prototype Systems, etc?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 11:04:36


    Post by: A Town Called Malus


    Your list looks pretty good to me.

    You've made the most melee oriented commander possible, I see. The onager gives you powerful punches but you still only have 4 attacks which are hitting on 3+ (reroll from the warlord trait) with it. I'm not familiar with Custodes outside of their general niche (small number of high wound, high armour models, with lots of invulnerable saves right?), but if they have access to abilities or strats which impose negative hit modifiers, your onager punches may end up swinging at shadows. You'll have the thermo attacks on top of that but one thing to keep in mind is that, raw, the thermo needs to roll to hit with both of its profiles, so it will also be affected by negative hit modifiers as well as overwatch 6s. I expect that to get faq'd at some point. Until then I'm not sure that the thermo projector is worth the points.
    Also, even with those S12 attacks and the bonus thermo attacks, trying to go toe to toe with custodes seems unwise. The units you could go toe to toe with in melee (Prosecutors, basically, as you probably don't want to eat witchseeker overwatch) will most likely be dead before you get there and trying to go toe-to-toe with the other units (even just Custodian Guard) is likely to end in death as they will carve through your shield drones very quickly with lots of 2 damage attacks and then begin to make mincemeat of the commander, even with the -1 damage from enforcer armour. You have the mobility to evade them, even with an enforcer commander, so I think swapping the Onager for a more defensive relic to keep your commander alive and in the fight and able to shoot might possibly be a better bet. But then again, those S12 attacks might be the difference between clearing an objective near the end of the game and not.

    You have a nice number of markerlights scattered throughout the list. That's a smart way of doing it to keep them alive and increase the odds you'll have a markerlight in range and Los of the target you want to paint.

    I'd recommend putting stabilised optics on your broadsides. They're free and allow you to ignore the penalty to shooting heavy weapons on the move and you currently have their second hardpoint unoccupied (the twin sms only takes up one slot). This allows you to move around and get LOS on enemies without sacrificing your accuracy, which I think is more useful than the "6s to hit auto wound" of the ATS.

    Relic-wise I like the Puretide Chip, Onager and SIPU.
    The Puretide chip gives CP refund rolls on some useful strats (Battle Tactics and Epic Deeds) and if you combine it with the Vior'la sept trait (CP refund rolls on Strategic Ploys and Wargear) you have refunds for every type of stratagem. That helps you really be able to utilise the stratagems by squeezing out every available CP over the course of the battle.
    Onager is, as is plain from its statline, great for fisting. It is held back a bit by 3+ to hit and only 4 attacks though.
    And the SIPU on an Enforcer combined with CDS, Shield Drones and Stimms can make for a filthy tank character, and still with 3 hardpoints left for guns.
    I can see some use for Ohr'Tu's Lantern on a fireblade if he is sitting back with a squad of fire warriors. Turning one markerlight into 6 (so averaging 4 markerlight tokens) can be great if you want to mass firepower from multiple units onto one target (as per RAW I think all the markerlight tokens of the Lantern have to be assigned to the same target). This could combo very nicely with the T'au sept Focused Fire stratagem (+1 to wound rolls for core units shooting at a specified enemy unit which already lost a wound that turn) to take down very tough targets. But you could accomplish the same thing with individual markerlights spread around without the limitations and not use up your relic choice.
    The Advanced EM Scrambler can be very useful if there is an enemy unit which relies on auras to be effective, either defensively or offensively, by not allowing said unit to benefit from them. The 6" range for this effect is a problem, though, as it is used in the command phase.
    The Beg'el Hunter's Plate is nice, too. +1 to armour saving throws and 5+ FNP. Not one turn only like the Stimm injector FNP, and +1 to armour saves allows you to take AP-1 hits on your enforcer or iridium suits like they were AP0. Not sure whether I would take this over the SIPU, though. A 5+ FNP per point of damage vs totally ignore damage of first unsaved hit per turn.

    What were you thinking with regards to Sept?

    Bork'an is very strong for the bonus range. 20" rapid fire range on Fire Warriors is nice, as is 12"/18" range Breachers (though that 12" still puts you in easy charge range). The reduce strength of ranged attacks by 1 against vehicles and battlesuits (provided attack has S7 or less) is also quite nice but not sure how much effective use it will get against Custodes as there is a limited amount of their weaponry that sits at the breakpoints (S5 for suits, S7 for vehicles). It would make their basic guns a lot less effective against your Hammerhead (S4 down to S3), though. Bork'an also has what is likely to be a very useful sept stratagem in this match-up, allowing you to give a single model's weapon the ignore invulnerable save ability (ideal for giving your broadside railguns that extra killing power against targets with invulnerable saves). It is also an epic deed strat, so if you take an extra relic and put the Puretide Chip on your fireblade, you have a 3+ refund for CPs on it.

    Farsight is also very reliable. Automatic markerlights when targeting anything within 12", plus a re-roll to a single wound roll when resolving a units attacks (so you don't roll that annoying one to wound with your railgun, for example). Their sept strat is very powerful but also situational as it triggers on a unit entering by manta strike or homing beacon. But it does mean that on the turn you arrive you have the best possible chance of inflicting the damage you want. If you don't go Farsight, you can still do a lesser version of this with the Drop Threat Acquisition strat, which gives hit re-rolls on manta strike/homing beacon arrival.

    With careful play in positioning, Vior'la could be a useful sept for their Sept stratagem. 6s to wound triggering a mortal wound (max 6) in addition to normal damage when shooting the closest eligible target in the shooting phase. Normally flamers and burst cannons are gonna be bouncing off custodian guard (~3 wounds total, so one dead guardian), but with this strat you'll be putting out 6 mortal wounds on average rolls (6 is also the maximum allowed by the strat), in addition to normal damage. That is an extra two dead custodian guards for the price of 2CP, an effective tripling of your lethality. These calculations all assumed re-roll 1s to hit from a nearby commander as well as a markerlight for +1 to hit. And bear in mind, you can use this strat in your shooting phase on that crisis team when it is engaged and whaddaya know? The unit engaged with them is the closest eligible unit. Enjoy toasty death goldboys.

    EDIT: Wow I made a lot of edits.

    Found another rules interaction which will probably need an FAQ/Errata. RAW I believe you can pop the Combat Debarkation strat, then get onto the devilfish, have it move and then disembark that same turn. Normally only units which start their movement phase embarked can disembark, but the wording of the strat says "any units embarked within can disembark" after the devilfish completes its normal move action. So you can have your PEN equipped Fireblade start outside the devilfish for the CP refund roll when the strat is played, then he can hop on board, ride to the destination and hop out with the fire warrior squad. This makes that strat incredible for repositioning fire warrior teams without losing any firepower as they can, in practice, never have to spend a shooting phase aboard their transport, provided you have the CP to spend (which is 1CP). Either the wording needs to change to eliminate this loophole or I think that strat needs to go up in cost. Until then? Fish of Fury is back, baby.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 16:52:52


    Post by: Valkyrie


    Bloody hell thanks for the detailed response

     A Town Called Malus wrote:
    Your list looks pretty good to me.

    You've made the most melee oriented commander possible, I see. The onager gives you powerful punches but you still only have 4 attacks which are hitting on 3+ (reroll from the warlord trait) with it. I'm not familiar with Custodes outside of their general niche (small number of high wound, high armour models, with lots of invulnerable saves right?), but if they have access to abilities or strats which impose negative hit modifiers, your onager punches may end up swinging at shadows. You'll have the thermo attacks on top of that but one thing to keep in mind is that, raw, the thermo needs to roll to hit with both of its profiles, so it will also be affected by negative hit modifiers as well as overwatch 6s. I expect that to get faq'd at some point. Until then I'm not sure that the thermo projector is worth the points.
    Also, even with those S12 attacks and the bonus thermo attacks, trying to go toe to toe with custodes seems unwise. The units you could go toe to toe with in melee (Prosecutors, basically, as you probably don't want to eat witchseeker overwatch) will most likely be dead before you get there and trying to go toe-to-toe with the other units (even just Custodian Guard) is likely to end in death as they will carve through your shield drones very quickly with lots of 2 damage attacks and then begin to make mincemeat of the commander, even with the -1 damage from enforcer armour. You have the mobility to evade them, even with an enforcer commander, so I think swapping the Onager for a more defensive relic to keep your commander alive and in the fight and able to shoot might possibly be a better bet. But then again, those S12 attacks might be the difference between clearing an objective near the end of the game and not.

    You have a nice number of markerlights scattered throughout the list. That's a smart way of doing it to keep them alive and increase the odds you'll have a markerlight in range and Los of the target you want to paint.

    I'd recommend putting stabilised optics on your broadsides. They're free and allow you to ignore the penalty to shooting heavy weapons on the move and you currently have their second hardpoint unoccupied (the twin sms only takes up one slot). This allows you to move around and get LOS on enemies without sacrificing your accuracy, which I think is more useful than the "6s to hit auto wound" of the ATS.


    Thanks for the point with the Broadsides, I'd also forgotten to add the SMS so had to drop a Shield Drone from the Commander to fit the points. I suspect he may use SoS squads to hold objectives so helpful to be able to flush them out with the SMSs.



    Relic-wise I like the Puretide Chip, Onager and SIPU.
    The Puretide chip gives CP refund rolls on some useful strats (Battle Tactics and Epic Deeds) and if you combine it with the Vior'la sept trait (CP refund rolls on Strategic Ploys and Wargear) you have refunds for every type of stratagem. That helps you really be able to utilise the stratagems by squeezing out every available CP over the course of the battle.
    Onager is, as is plain from its statline, great for fisting. It is held back a bit by 3+ to hit and only 4 attacks though.
    And the SIPU on an Enforcer combined with CDS, Shield Drones and Stimms can make for a filthy tank character, and still with 3 hardpoints left for guns.
    I can see some use for Ohr'Tu's Lantern on a fireblade if he is sitting back with a squad of fire warriors. Turning one markerlight into 6 (so averaging 4 markerlight tokens) can be great if you want to mass firepower from multiple units onto one target (as per RAW I think all the markerlight tokens of the Lantern have to be assigned to the same target). This could combo very nicely with the T'au sept Focused Fire stratagem (+1 to wound rolls for core units shooting at a specified enemy unit which already lost a wound that turn) to take down very tough targets. But you could accomplish the same thing with individual markerlights spread around without the limitations and not use up your relic choice.
    The Advanced EM Scrambler can be very useful if there is an enemy unit which relies on auras to be effective, either defensively or offensively, by not allowing said unit to benefit from them. The 6" range for this effect is a problem, though, as it is used in the command phase.
    The Beg'el Hunter's Plate is nice, too. +1 to armour saving throws and 5+ FNP. Not one turn only like the Stimm injector FNP, and +1 to armour saves allows you to take AP-1 hits on your enforcer or iridium suits like they were AP0. Not sure whether I would take this over the SIPU, though. A 5+ FNP per point of damage vs totally ignore damage of first unsaved hit per turn.


    I've never been a fan of using a relic slot just for a CP refund. However I may pay the CP and put the PEN on the Fireblade.

    What were you thinking with regards to Sept?

    Bork'an is very strong for the bonus range. 20" rapid fire range on Fire Warriors is nice, as is 12"/18" range Breachers (though that 12" still puts you in easy charge range). The reduce strength of ranged attacks by 1 against vehicles and battlesuits (provided attack has S7 or less) is also quite nice but not sure how much effective use it will get against Custodes as there is a limited amount of their weaponry that sits at the breakpoints (S5 for suits, S7 for vehicles). It would make their basic guns a lot less effective against your Hammerhead (S4 down to S3), though. Bork'an also has what is likely to be a very useful sept stratagem in this match-up, allowing you to give a single model's weapon the ignore invulnerable save ability (ideal for giving your broadside railguns that extra killing power against targets with invulnerable saves). It is also an epic deed strat, so if you take an extra relic and put the Puretide Chip on your fireblade, you have a 3+ refund for CPs on it.

    Farsight is also very reliable. Automatic markerlights when targeting anything within 12", plus a re-roll to a single wound roll when resolving a units attacks (so you don't roll that annoying one to wound with your railgun, for example). Their sept strat is very powerful but also situational as it triggers on a unit entering by manta strike or homing beacon. But it does mean that on the turn you arrive you have the best possible chance of inflicting the damage you want. Combine it with Strike and Fade (move 6" after shooting) to really mess with the opponent by dropping in close enough for all your guns to fire, attacking with full rerolls on hits and wounds and then scuttling away 6". If you don't go Farsight, you can still do a lesser version of this with the Drop Threat Acquisition strat, which gives hit re-rolls on manta strike/homing beacon arrival.

    With careful play in positioning, Vior'la could be a useful sept for their Sept stratagem. 6s to wound triggering a mortal wound (max 6) in addition to normal damage when shooting the closest eligible target in the shooting phase. Normally flamers and burst cannons are gonna be bouncing off custodian guard (~3 wounds total, so one dead guardian), but with this strat you'll be putting out 6 mortal wounds on average rolls (6 is also the maximum allowed by the strat), in addition to normal damage. That is an extra two dead custodian guards for the price of 2CP, an effective tripling of your lethality. These calculations all assumed re-roll 1s to hit from a nearby commander as well as a markerlight for +1 to hit. And bear in mind, you can use this strat in your shooting phase on that crisis team when it is engaged and whaddaya know? The unit engaged with them is the closest eligible unit. Enjoy toasty death goldboys.


    Ah, beat me to it. I was thinking either Enclaves or Bork'an for those reasons. Enclaves in particular for the Flamer Crisis team. Drop them in with 6D6 hits rerolling failed wounds is bound to do at least a couple of wounds. If they fail then they can at least try to tie up a unit with their 4++.

    I hadn't considered Vior'la. That strat is definitely worth considering.

    EDIT: Wow I made a lot of edits.

    Found another rules interaction which will probably need an FAQ/Errata. RAW I believe you can pop the Combat Debarkation strat, then get onto the devilfish, have it move and then disembark that same turn. Normally only units which start their movement phase embarked can disembark, but the wording of the strat says "any units embarked within can disembark" after the devilfish completes its normal move action. So you can have your PEN equipped Fireblade start outside the devilfish for the CP refund roll when the strat is played, then he can hop on board, ride to the destination and hop out with the fire warrior squad. This makes that strat incredible for repositioning fire warrior teams without losing any firepower as they can, in practice, never have to spend a shooting phase aboard their transport, provided you have the CP to spend (which is 1CP). Either the wording needs to change to eliminate this loophole or I think that strat needs to go up in cost. Until then? Fish of Fury is back, baby.


    Ooh that's a good spot. I do have a Devilfish but I generally thought you need at least 2 to get the most out of them.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 17:13:05


    Post by: A Town Called Malus


    No problem!

    A fair amount of that is just my stream of consciousness from looking through the book haha. Still slowly putting the pieces together with regards to the codex, myself.

    Still, I hope there is some useful stuff in there.

    Ooh that's a good spot. I do have a Devilfish but I generally thought you need at least 2 to get the most out of them.


    I would agree, especially with that strat as it affects 3 devilfish if used during the particular turns of your philosophy (1-3 for Mont'ka, 4-6 for Kauyon). 1CP to do it with 1 devilfish is okay, but 1 CP to do it with 3 is incredible.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 19:28:39


    Post by: bmsattler


    I don't believe you can fire and fade if you arrived from reserves. They have really been cutting down on that kind of thing and I believe its specifically outlawed in the core rules. Does the Tau strat have a specific exemption? I'll admit I don't have the book yet.

    Can you stack the CP regen from the warlord trait/relic with an Ethereal?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 20:24:14


    Post by: A Town Called Malus


    bmsattler wrote:
    I don't believe you can fire and fade if you arrived from reserves. They have really been cutting down on that kind of thing and I believe its specifically outlawed in the core rules. Does the Tau strat have a specific exemption? I'll admit I don't have the book yet.

    Can you stack the CP regen from the warlord trait/relic with an Ethereal?


    Ah, you are correct on Strike and Fade. Good catch. I'm a new return to 40K with 9th (fell out in 7th), so not massively familiar with the core rules but I know Tau I'll edit that out my post!

    You cannot stack the CP gain from the Ethereal invocation with CP refund relics/traits. There is nothing which exempts it from the 1CP gain/refund (in addition to the +1 for battle forged) per battle round. So if you're planning on using an Ethereal and taking the CP gain invocation, you can possibly leave CP regen stuff at home. Though the Ethereal is a one per round 3+ roll (except for Aun/va and Aun'shi who are 2+), whereas with the relic and/or trait, you roll for each CP you spend and with the same 3+ chance until you get it. So if you use more than one stratagem that you can roll to refund per round, or use a strat which costs more than one CP, you have a better chance of getting that CP than with a standard Ethereal.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/08 22:08:50


    Post by: Sterling191


    Remember that the Neurochip and Academy Luminary only affect specific categories of strats. Yes they’re reliable in their niche but the invocation is also just an addition, not a refund.

    Subtle differences, but they are important.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/09 10:35:12


    Post by: Ordana


    The CP invocation is very nice. The problem is that it competes with 5+++ and -1 hit which are, imo, a bigger deal when you can get CP from other sources like the Neurochip.

    And running 2 ethereals to get all of them feels like to much.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/10 14:59:44


    Post by: bullyboy


    So I'm trying to round out my (very) limited Tau army without having to purchase too much. It's set up as follows currently..

    Farsight
    Enforcer, Onager, neutro flamer, CIB, MP, shield

    10 breachers, guardian
    10 breachers, guardian
    10 fire warriors, SMS turret
    2 devilfish with SMS

    2 units 3 stealth suits, beacon, marker drone
    ghostkeel, all fusion, flare launcher
    riptide, ion, SMS, 2 shielded missiles

    crisis team (5), mixed weaponry and shield drones.

    Have a couple hundred points leftover and the following models..

    Coldstar commander (now worthlessly equipped with triple fusion/shield), waiting for fusion blades to return
    Single broadside with HYMP
    Pathfinders with 2 rail rifles
    bunch of drones unbuilt
    4 crisis suits, 1 being dual fusion, 3 unbuilt.
    2 Piranhas

    I'm not against picking up more units (adding to broadsides if that's a good option), but also would be good to use what I have. I am wondering if adding some lowly Kroot to do actions would be good, while leaving my actual tau to be all combat oriented.

    Thoughts?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    In addition, thinking of making use of drop zone clear strat with a unit of crisis. Wondering should I opt for 3 to make it cheaper CP wise, or go 5 to maximize the firepower and eat the additional CP. I'm assuming gun drones attached will also benefit from the strat, in which case each suit will be accompanied by 1 shield and gun drone.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/10 18:17:00


    Post by: carldooley


    The riptide and broadside should have bits to give you options for your suits. I'm guessing from your comment about your coldstar that you never magnetized your models? You may want to try.

    If you do decide to magnetize, get a couple skyrays.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/10 19:21:41


    Post by: A Town Called Malus


    One thing that is easy to overlook is that the Thermoneutronic Projector replaces a flamer, but does not have the auto-hits ability of a flamer (in shooting or in melee). Just a heads up in case you didn't spot that.

    Drones do not benefit from Drop Zone Clear, or the generic Drop Threat Acquisition strat. Both target a BATTLESUIT unit (which does include the drones in the unit), but only grants re-rolls each time a BATTLESUIT model makes a ranged attack. So, no re-rolls for the drones (sad beep-boop noises).


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/10 20:50:43


    Post by: ph34r


    Tau Noob here: Does 'The Eight' still have rules? Can I take it with the new codex?

    Is it terrible or passable enough I could build a theme-y army around?


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/10 21:10:30


    Post by: Sterling191


    The Eight are once again without rules.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/11 00:00:12


    Post by: Talurit


     Ordana wrote:
    The CP invocation is very nice. The problem is that it competes with 5+++ and -1 hit which are, imo, a bigger deal when you can get CP from other sources like the Neurochip.

    And running 2 ethereals to get all of them feels like to much.


    This is why I have been toying with the idea of spending the relic on the humble stave.
    One ethereal, can cast two invocations and do it on a 2+. More reliable than PEN, the first time you do it he's paid the relic off, and each subsequent one is gravy.

    Then we can get either the 5+++ or the -1 on a 2+ as well. (I'm playing Sa'cea so the 5+++ is more value to me)


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/11 10:20:36


    Post by: Ordana


     Talurit wrote:
     Ordana wrote:
    The CP invocation is very nice. The problem is that it competes with 5+++ and -1 hit which are, imo, a bigger deal when you can get CP from other sources like the Neurochip.

    And running 2 ethereals to get all of them feels like to much.


    This is why I have been toying with the idea of spending the relic on the humble stave.
    One ethereal, can cast two invocations and do it on a 2+. More reliable than PEN, the first time you do it he's paid the relic off, and each subsequent one is gravy.

    Then we can get either the 5+++ or the -1 on a 2+ as well. (I'm playing Sa'cea so the 5+++ is more value to me)
    Or you take both, use the chip for CP and do both the 5+++ and -1 hit.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/11 16:56:31


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Stupid question, but does anyone have suggestions on where to find FW stuff during the looong stretches when they're sold out? I really want a pair of Tetras, but FW is sold out and Ebay doesn't have any not marked up 200%.

    I'm up for alternatives too at this point.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/12 02:58:24


    Post by: bedivere


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    Stupid question, but does anyone have suggestions on where to find FW stuff during the looong stretches when they're sold out? I really want a pair of Tetras, but FW is sold out and Ebay doesn't have any not marked up 200%.

    I'm up for alternatives too at this point.


    You can always use some 3d alternatives.
    The forgeworld TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (Legendary) was soldout and no longer in production, but i really like the turret options (visually) so i have some being 3d printed at the moment.
    Think there are some goood tetras, and other forgeworld replacements for other armies, out there that I think look better.

    Edit
    While tehre are places that offer the actual 3D pritned custom models (can be found all over the web in lists by seacring forge world alternatives) i would perfer the desgin files to 3D print at lesuire.
    On the cults3d website there are STL files that can be bought to be printed as many times as you like.
    The user 'Valenir' has a 'my tetra' that looks good (no people inside so you can make your own to fit).

    If you are looking for a cheap manta the the same person has a 'my manta' for a smidge over £50.
    It is the design files to build your very own WH40K scale manta (not epic but full 40K scale).
    For the cost of a 3D printer and the designs and the 3D printer fillament / resin you could build as many tau mantas as you could want .... or had time to assemble, as each one has over 100 parts.
    All for less than the FW cost.
    You can also hire someone else to print the parts fro you and pst them to you for less than FW.

    I thiink I would actually perffer that, as I have seen some youtube videos of people trying to build that think from FW and having huge problems with the FW resin and warping, where as it would be nice to have everything just fit and if you wanted to modify it (for LEDs or whatever) you could happliy modify a copy of the STL or print a part and hack away, with the knowledge that if anything went wrong you can just print another replacement part.

    I havent really looked at tetras but that could be a handy option if they come in squads of more than 1, as that way you could easily and cheaply get a full squad?
    If you contact the creator directly im sure you could ask them to design a FW legacey TX42 Piranha unit (as that would match the look of the tetras nicely and make them fit into the army better).

    I do think FW days are numberd when it comes to the large scale models that are known for having issues, unless FW get into selling STL files or better 3D printed units (not resin cast) for the large scales.


    T'au Tactica: 9th Edition @ 2022/02/12 04:18:41


    Post by: carldooley


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    Stupid question, but does anyone have suggestions on where to find FW stuff during the looong stretches when they're sold out? I really want a pair of Tetras, but FW is sold out and Ebay doesn't have any not marked up 200%.

    I'm up for alternatives too at this point.

    You could do piranhas with marker drones in places of the normal gun drones?