Well, it’s up for streaming, with the first two episodes available.
So far, it’s kinda....odd. The spoof of 50/60’s sitcoms is pretty spot on, based on my memories of Genie and Bewitched. It’s also quite unlike anything I’ve seen before. Not radically different, just quite a unique feel.
Anyone else tuned in?
Have now watched both episodes.
First impressions, I guess.
1. I’m glad they seem to have embraced this as a tv series, rather than a serialised movie, if that makes sense.
2. I don’t quite know what to make of it, but for the right reasons. The sitcom spoofing works so well, when an indicator that something is up comes along, it’s genuinely and suitably jarring. I’m wondering if the commercials are heavy hints to us the audience, or Wanda trying to make sense of stuff?
Overall, whilst not exactly hooked as I was with the Mando, I thoroughly enjoyed what we’ve seen so far.
And for those that have seen the second episode, is it just me, or was Paul Betanny channelling a little Rik Mayall?
It’s so Sitcom-y, very spot on, even a nice Dick Van Dyke reference with the chair in the beginning. Only seen the first episode so far, but I liked it.
I enjoy that they are committing so hard to the premise. It works so far and I am really interested in seeing the eventual dove tail into psychological break downs. Most interesting element to me so far is in the...
Spoiler:
...post credits there is a S.W.O.R.D. logo on the monitor/journal. Traditionally SWORD handles extraterrestrial threats to Earth as a space based counterpart to SHIELD. And everyone thought that that was what Nick Fury was up to in that space station. That no longer appears to be the case.
I like how they are not doing parodies of classic sitcoms. Rather they are making sitcom episodes in the complete style, tone and techniques of a 50's and a 60's sitcom. They're not mocking or satirising those styles, they're straight up recreating them. It's a very bold choice, and one that works quite well.
Ok, potential spoiler territory here...
Spoiler:
The show is terrifying. The sense of foreboding and creeping dread engulfs virtually everything. Stark tonal shifts are often examples of bad plotting or directing, but these are 100% deliberate. How we go from light banter about Wanda and Vision's (unknown) past, to a wife not noticing that her husband is choking, to "Vision. Save him.", and then back to weird'n'wacky I Love Lucy sitcom in the space of less that a minute is just damned spooky.
Even moreso is the end of the second episode, where the SWORD agent, appearing as a scary bee keeper, appears from a manhole cover and Wanda's only reaction is "No!" followed by her rewinding time to make that not happen. It's creepy as feth, and I love it.
Them not remembering anything reminds me of the conversation between Cobb and Ariadne from Inception, where they're at a cafe talking and Cobb asks Ariadne if she remembers how she got there, and suddenly she realises she can't, because they're in a dream, she didn't know that, and in vivid dreams you are often in situations with no idea how you got there (you don't even think about it). The way Vision doesn't know what his job is, or what the company does, and no one else there does. How they don't know when they got married, where, where they moved from. Even Monica doesn't know who she is.
And then there's how Vision is even there in the first place?
Apparently episodes 1 and 2 are the main 'set up' episodes, establishing the rules of the sitcom styles and how some things operate (like how their house completely changes between episodes and no one notices), whereas the third episode gets us a bit more into the underlying "what the feth is going on" plot line.
Very succinctly put my dude, and I’m in complete agreement.
Spoiler:
I’m particularly interested in the commercials. One for a Stark toaster, where the alarm goes on a little too long (and flashes in colour) and one for a Strücker brand device)
Are these red herrings, foreshadowing of stuff to come, or simply hints that something is definitely No Right Here.
Massive props to Elizabeth Olsen here. The dinner table scene is a brilliant bit of acting. Someone right on the very, very edge of total panic.
Magnificent stuff.
And again, praise for them not making this a fragmented movie, but an actual series.
Olsen is perfect (and gorgeous... if not for ScarJo she'd be Number 1 in the MCU, but I digress) and, from what I read, is very specifically enunciating very clearly in a deliberate fashion as that is what actors in 50's/60's sitcoms were required to do.
And those advertisements. Look how uneasy the lady looked in the Stark Toaster one. It was an ad for a toaster FFS, and still the sense of dread, the sense that something is not right, but no one can tell why, is right there, front and centre.
The use of colour is interesting (everything in black and white except for the blood on Dottie's hand). I hope a lot of these side characters (other than Agnes and Monica, obviously) continue to show up as we move through the sitcom eras.
I think this is going to stand up pretty well to the episodic format. Especially if, unless I’m mistaken, it’s a fixed term thing, rather than ongoing ala Lost.
That should keep the focus sharp. When you know you’ve 9 episodes to tell your tale (with, presumably the option for loose threads to be tied to movies and different shows) you’re less likely to whimbrel and waffle.
And yeah. That sense of disquiet and faint dread is effing masterful. In places, it’s seemingly easy to miss, but even when clear, it’s not overriding, or out of place. It’s just jarring enough for us to feel as the characters do.
Though I do recommend people watch both episodes, as I feel the first is the weaker of the two, as the second really builds things more, once the foundation is laid.
If anyone does any story telling ala dnd or other table top rpgs these are episodes i would tell them to watch to learn how to build a sense of unease and dread in a situation. It is VERY well done.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also predictions discussion: do we think Wiccan and Speed are both going to come out the other side of this series to join the young avengers?
So far they have cast
Cassie Lang (Stature)
Kamala Khan (Mrs Marvel)
Kate Bishop (Hawkeye)
Spiderman? (Hes still young enough?)
And with Secret Invasion they could introduce Hulkling.
And while we discuss predictions, Quicksilver going to be alive again?
LunarSol wrote: I'm a huge fan of all the source marterial this seems to be inspired by. Very excited to check it out.
If you’re talking about the Vision comic run where he had the whole synth family (I think I saw people making comparisons previously) this is nothing like that story.
Easy E wrote: I get a strong Mojo vibe from the ads for this series, but I hope I am very, very wrong.
That'd be a weird choice (so many other characters he could tie-in with, and he's a natural backstory). Personally, I suspect (going to spoiler this, but its ALL speculation, haven't seen it):
Spoiler:
(given her 'weird' powers) its something she did to herself, as a (very terrible) attempt at a coping mechanism. And Agatha/Agnes is trying to pull her out of her own head. The strange, creepy stuff is her mind rebelling at facing reality
Given the themes it will/should probably hit on, I'm going to guess that a lot of people aren't going to like this show. Too existential and psychological, and probably too darned depressing.
The show is doing a pretty good job so far of keeping all that amibiguous.
Spoiler:
The second episode shows Wanda does have significant control within whatever it is, as she rewinds time.
But, there’s also “voices from outside” calling to her, asking who did this to her.
It could be she is someone’s victim, could leave at any time, but doesn’t want to (or deeper psychological stuffs, such as her mental state forcing her to stay).
I found some interesting tid bits about the show. Some just little easter eggs. Some nice little notes about whos who and what could be going on. Nothing crazy spoilery just little lines people are drawing to some things.
Spoiler:
-So in the Ep2 Opening when cartoon Vision is phasing through the floor The Grim Reapers silhouetted helmet is between the floor boards along with some cartoon bones. A reference to that Vision series.
-The voice calling over the radio is Jimmy Woo. The agent who was watching Scott Lang in Ant-Man and the Wasp. Has he been promoted to SWORD?
-S.W.O.R.D. now stands for Sentient Weapon Obersevation and Response Division. Which might mean they are now an extension of the Sokovia Accords and a international police force that monitors and responds to enhanced individuals. Will SWORD be going after Spiderman? Is Kraven a SWORD agent going rogue?
-Agnes is very likely Agatha Harkness. Basically the person who taught Wanda magic in the comics.
-Cartoon Wanda in the super market has 2 posters behind her. Bova Milk (a reference to her Cow Person Milk maid from Wundagore Mt. (comics are dumb look this up at your own risk)) and Aunty A's kitty litter (which appears over cartoon Agnes. "Aunty Agatha" is a name Wanda calls Agatha in the comics, who also in known to have a all black cat with her at all times named Ebony.)
So something things that I thoughts of, and things I cribbed from other conversations online
Spoiler:
The "ad breaks" so far reference tragic events in Wanda's life. The Stark Bomb that killed her family, and almost killed her and quicksilver is the toaster reference. and the Strucker watch is a reference the Baron Von Strucker and Hydra experimenting on her and quicksilver to give them their powers.
I predict we get something related to Quicksilver's death in the next ad break.
I think Wanda is the one truly in control of everything. We shall see if it turns out to be voluntary or not I guess. But part of me kind of hopes this leads to her portion in Doctor Strange 2 being her as the villain rather than supporting cast.
The helicopter also had the SWORD logo on it. I saw someone online say that maybe it was a real helicopter that got turned into a toy when it entered Wanda's reality. Could it be how Monica/Geraldine ended up in episode 2?
Just watched both episodes, and I'm honestly not sure what to make of it. I don't know all these different comic books you guys are referencing, so that's probably not helping me. I'll just wait and see how the show develops going forward.
Spoiler:
I did enjoy the callbacks to classic TV shows like the Dick Van Dyke show, Bewitched, and others like that. I've seen a lot of classic TV in my life, and they got the look and everything spot on!
Wanda is of course Sokovian. Which is presented as a former Eastern Bloc country.
They’re not exactly noted for their cultural warm embrace of classic US tv programming, such as I Love Lucy.
So...why, in terms of Wanda, this fantasy land?
Spoiler:
It's not just that she is Sokovian and has no cultural anchor to those shows. She also really isn't the right age for it. Even if she was born in the USA this should be Family Matters, Full House, Fresh Prince, Saved By the Bell, etc etc... Wonder Years as the absolute earliest.
I had a very similar thought. I don't know if we will be getting a satisfactory answer. Maybe Agatha is guiding it a bit? By making it these idealistic simplistic earlier sitcoms she can minimize the damage?
I watched this, and thought "other than me, who the hell is this aimed at" and the answer appears to be "everyone else in this thread"
I've never read Marvel comics, really, but watched all the movies. But in my teens I travelled around lots of America watching I Love Lucy, Bewitched and I Dream of Genie in hotel rooms. And the recreation in this is damn near pitch perfect (apart from the overwhelming dread, as others have pointed out so well)
I swear the grade of the film stock changes from Episode 1 to 2.
And no, I don't think Paul is channeling Rick Mayall. Because I'm absolutely sure it was Tommy Cooper.
Wanda is of course Sokovian. Which is presented as a former Eastern Bloc country.
They’re not exactly noted for their cultural warm embrace of classic US tv programming, such as I Love Lucy.
So...why, in terms of Wanda, this fantasy land?
Spoiler:
It's not just that she is Sokovian and has no cultural anchor to those shows. She also really isn't the right age for it. Even if she was born in the USA this should be Family Matters, Full House, Fresh Prince, Saved By the Bell, etc etc... Wonder Years as the absolute earliest.
I had a very similar thought. I don't know if we will be getting a satisfactory answer. Maybe Agatha is guiding it a bit? By making it these idealistic simplistic earlier sitcoms she can minimize the damage?
Spoiler:
I'm more likely to believe it's because one of the writers is the correct age for these references wanted them in there. I don't think it will be some big reveal or anyting.
Potentially these old shows could have been the only sort of Western TV you'd get in Sokovia.
Thinking to daytime TV in Scotland, American shows are STILL mostly 70's and 80's classics. Is it too much of a stretch that in a fictional former Eastern bloc country they're even older?
And if you're going with the 'Wanda has retreated into her own bubble of reality idea in an attempt to hide through her grief'', it would seem reasonable that she'd try to create her own idealised, safe, world.
Spoiler:
Like even the 'villains' of Episode 1 and 2, the Boss and Dottie suddenly change their mind out of the blue, giving Wanda a 'win' when it looks like they aren't going to.
I think the main question of the show is a little like Legion... What's the right answer? Is Wanda doing this to herself, or is there really an external force (EG in Legions case, the ShadowKing) contributing to it all?
I'm more likely to believe it's because one of the writers is the correct age for these references wanted them in there. I don't think it will be some big reveal or anyting.
Agreed. Plus, I do think the baseline is the way it is for the target audience (as well as the writers)
Spoiler:
Like it or not, the Eastern European equivalent of 'I Love Lucy' would just produce a blank, puzzled response from the intended audience. It might be quirky or even interesting to see a show made that way, but it wouldn't get approved and wouldn't sell even if it were. Cultural dominance might even be an intended theme.
ZergSmasher wrote: Just watched both episodes, and I'm honestly not sure what to make of it. I don't know all these different comic books you guys are referencing, so that's probably not helping me. I'll just wait and see how the show develops going forward.
Spoiler:
I did enjoy the callbacks to classic TV shows like the Dick Van Dyke show, Bewitched, and others like that. I've seen a lot of classic TV in my life, and they got the look and everything spot on!
I can summarize the major comics for this for you and anyone else real quick.
The build up to her major mental break
Spoiler:
Real earlier comics had Wanda and Vision in a relationship. Then Vision got destroyed and it broke her. In traditional comics being too complicated fashion, Mephisto (one of Marvels "The Devil"s) was revealed to be egging on her madness to sow chaos. She ended up manifesting children with Vision, twins, who mirrored her and her brothers powers (speed and "magic"). When Vision was rebuilt/returned he was himself but also not the person he was before. He had old Visions memories but no emotional connection to them or really anything. When Wanda's kids were revealed to be manifestations of her powers there was basically a intervention that ended with them no longer existing. Their return and removal for reality happens a bit and now they are fully currently in the continuity in modern comics (Characters named Speed and Wiccan if you want to look them up).
Avengers Disassembled and the House of M
Spoiler:
Her big final mental break from all that nonsense was a story called Avengers Disassembled that resulted in her breaking down so badly that several Avengers were "killed" or wiped from existence including Hawkeye and Scott Lang (maybe?). The end of which had the Avengers and the X-Men arguing over whos job it was to decide what to do with her because she was too unstable and unraveling reality around her. Her kids would literally manifest as children and then disappear and then return at a different age (think babies, then 6 year olds, then 10, then shes pregnant, then they are 3, then they don't exist again, etc etc...). Instead she rewrote all of reality into a world that was everything her father wanted. Mutants were the dominant species. Magneto effectively ruled the world. Sentinels were a police force that hunted rebel humans who opposed mutant supremacy. Magneto ended up striking down and killing quicksilver in this reality and Wanda turned on him. "Even when you get everything you ever wanted you are still the monster. No More Mutants". With those last 3 words reality went back to normal with 1 major exception. The mutant population went from hundreds of thousands to a smidge over 500 in a instant. And no new mutants were being born. Wanda put their species on the brink of extinction that would impact years of X books going forward.
The Visions Family
Spoiler:
There was a 6 issue Vision limited series that was about the Vision exploring his humanity and trying to fit in by building himself a family. Vision in the comics has his mind built on top of a imprint of multiple people but mainly Wonder Man (don't worry about it it's dumb comic stuff). Wanda had Hank Pym (who built Ultron who in turn built Vision) help build a new head crystal for Vision to make himself a wife based on Wanda. Someone LIKE her but NOT her. He also built a dog and 2 kids. Viv and Vin. The series watches Vision living in a suburban life while being the Avengers liaison to the Pentagon in DC while his family tries to fit in. Going to school, keeping a home. etc...
But things unravel and his wife kills a person, his son becomes basically a vegetable, and Vision ultimately has to kill his wife because she starts going off the deep end. A lot of the idealistic family motif of the show is reminiscent of this series.
Man i came in to give my one theory and everyone is like "Here is my encycolpediac knowledge of all comics and how it might relate.
I think i might just lurk.
I like how they are not doing parodies of classic sitcoms. Rather they are making sitcom episodes in the complete style, tone and techniques of a 50's and a 60's sitcom. They're not mocking or satirising those styles, they're straight up recreating them. It's a very bold choice, and one that works quite well.
They are definitely poking some fun at it, with vision having some nebulous job doing "Stuff" kinda how it was with those shows, the man just had a "Job"
And the two beds joke, with it moving toward eatchother. Not much, but some jokes/jabs if you know what the source material is.
I read the Vision's nebulous job thing as just being another facet of the weirdness/wrongness of the whole situation, rather than poking fun at the old comedies, but there is no reason why it couldn't be both, I suppose.
Wanda is of course Sokovian. Which is presented as a former Eastern Bloc country.
They’re not exactly noted for their cultural warm embrace of classic US tv programming, such as I Love Lucy.
So...why, in terms of Wanda, this fantasy land?
Spoiler:
It's not just that she is Sokovian and has no cultural anchor to those shows. She also really isn't the right age for it. Even if she was born in the USA this should be Family Matters, Full House, Fresh Prince, Saved By the Bell, etc etc... Wonder Years as the absolute earliest.
I had a very similar thought. I don't know if we will be getting a satisfactory answer. Maybe Agatha is guiding it a bit? By making it these idealistic simplistic earlier sitcoms she can minimize the damage?
Spoiler:
I'm more likely to believe it's because one of the writers is the correct age for these references wanted them in there. I don't think it will be some big reveal or anyting.
Well its less they are refrencing these old shows exclusivley. They are doing a decade of televisions each, 50s for Ep 1, 60s for ep2(The turning to colore was the bewitched because they started filming in color)
Spoiler:
There is even said to be a full house episode later
Im personally excited is there will be a 2000s episode.
... mainly Wonder Man (don't worry about it it's dumb comic stuff).
Maybe we should worry about it...
Spoiler:
The animated intro for episode two has the Grim Reaper's helmet in their house, the Grim Reaper being Simon's brother. And in the latest sort of behind the scenes preview stuff, the head writer/show running speaking to camera and in the background a lot of stuff is blurred out. One of the things is very clearly Wonder Man, in his costume.
When Vision is all dead in Infinity War, what happened to his body.
This right, all the colour fades on it.
And this show started out in Black & White. The only colour showing through is Red. Which happens to be the colour of Wanda’s magic....which exist as a result of HYDRA mucking about with Loki’s Sceptre.
And we then see the show return to colour, to Wanda’s genuine delight....
Watched the show last night with the wife and we both loved it. I wasn't really sure what to expect to be honest. Being a late 80s baby I wasn't exposed to a whole lot of vintage sit coms but that didn't seem to make much difference to how much I enjoyed the show. We actually watched it twice to make sure we caught all the Easter eggs.
I really do hate the weekly release format though, it just completely defeats the purpose of putting shows up on a streaming service. It just seems like they want to wrangle another month of subscription out of people. How about just having enough content that people never want to cancel? Crazy idea, I know.
Well, the weekly release format - y'know, the one that has worked since TV was a thing - does tend to keep people's interest in a series for longer than the weekend of release. Even ignoring subscriptions, that's got to be more useful (and valuable) to the network than the "dump and run" approach usually used by Netflix.
Yeah I get that weekly release is a tradition wise ass. It's also antiquated as hell now. People have been binging their TV shows for about a decade at this point. Plus, people who prefer to watch only an episode a week can still do so if they put up the whole run at once.
Well, lets not pretend weekly releases was be best because thats how it always was. IT was a product of restrictions on filiming, TV slots needing to be filled, and getting people to come back in order to go to advertisements.
Tradition =/= inheratnly better.
Culture around TV has changed, and while i like talking about a show, sometimes it can be frusterating when shows that where made with Binging in mind(Hyper serialized like Wandavision, The Boys, The Expanse) are now released weekly.
When older shows where released weejkly, you had a complete episode. Boom, done. come back next week for a new adventure.
I think more important then that, when tv was episodic with each episode returning to the status quo it didnt matter if there was a huge gap in time between episodes.
Now that long form story telling is being done with tv series using episodes as chapters in a singular narrative its more important to keep audience in the mood/theme/plots of the over all story. Binging helps the show get digested as it is meant to be. As a singular narrative. The weekly release schedule has me consume any amount of hours of other content that gets me feeling other feelings and sunk in to other themes and when i come back 7 days later i need to get myself back into the right head space.
Who are these people again? What did they do last week? What was that thing from 3 weeks ago being called back to now? It just doesnt work as well anymore with the types of stories being told.
Personally, I'm not sure it helps their revenue streams, either.
I was pondering subbing for the Mandalorian... once all the episodes were up. Then I remembered this was coming out, so decided not to. When this ends, I'm pretty sure I'll see how long it will be until some other show I'm interested in comes out and delay again.
When Mando season 1 happened, I did the free trial and dumped it afterwards. Unless there is a big glut of content coming, I'm just as happy not to sub. If I 'miss' something when its new, oh well.
Less? It certaintly reduces spoiler potential, because there aren't people floating round in different time zones / shift patterns having binged the whole thing and put up clips before I even finish work for the day...
hotsauceman1 wrote: Well lets also wonder, Mando was 2020s most pirated show, how much more does this encourage piracy?
It's the same entitlement culture we see with 40k rulebooks - "I want this content, but I don't think I should have to pay to access it."
I've not paid for Disney+, so I've not watched any of the Mandalorian bar a couple of clips on YT, and I haven't watched any of Wandavision beyond the trailer.
Should they come out with a boxed set - which they might've for Mando s1, I've not looked - I may pick them up that way, but until I do, I'm not going to try to pirate the content,
Thinking about it some, I think Mando Season 2 is where Disney perfected their decision method for going weekly versus binging.
Mando Season 2 basically has a MASSIVE discussion point every two episodes on the show and was kind of a big cycle of Setup / Payoff then Resolution/Setup.
So people just kept on talking about the show, the anticipation of the next Discussion Point encouraging people to subscribe to see it first hand.
Then, of course, you get to the Season Finale and the Climatic Discussion Point with the anticipation for that meaning MORE people sign up...
And people are STILL talking about Climatic Discussion Point.
I'm sure this has all been focus grouped and planned out to the 9th degree... (Which is kind of insidious when you think about it, but then again, Mouse, it's kind of their thing, and would be other companies, if they were competent at it.)
But in an alternate world, where Mandalorian Season 2 was a binging show... This method wouldn't work. You wouldn't get that drip and drab of new people who were excited about what they heard of the Payoff of the last Discussion Point and the Setup of the next Discussion Point.
Instead, all that has just flown by in an evening. Ultimately, the only thing people would have really talked about was the Climatic Discussion Point, which would have likely just had the same impact as it did with the weekly release.
But bringing it back on topic, I'm wondering if my theory will pan out with WandaVision, I think it should... The Discussion Points may be smaller, more based on the shows mystery, but, I can see some echoes of the theory.
even back in season 1 I read an article suggesting Disney had the right idea. they noted it kept people subscribed longer, obviously, it also, they noted, made it easier to talk about the show as everyone had reliably seen so far. they compared and contrasted it with the Witcher which had aired around the same time, and noted that around the holiday table people discussed the Mandalorian more then the witcher because it was easier to know how far along everyone was.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voss wrote: Personally, I'm not sure it helps their revenue streams, either.
I was pondering subbing for the Mandalorian... once all the episodes were up. Then I remembered this was coming out, so decided not to. When this ends, I'm pretty sure I'll see how long it will be until some other show I'm interested in comes out and delay again.
When Mando season 1 happened, I did the free trial and dumped it afterwards. Unless there is a big glut of content coming, I'm just as happy not to sub. If I 'miss' something when its new, oh well.
you'll be subscribed for the rest of the year then. once wanda vision finishes falcon and winter soldier comes out. after that finishes another thing comes out, disney plus basicly has a new series every two months for the rest of the year
Voss wrote: Personally, I'm not sure it helps their revenue streams, either.
I was pondering subbing for the Mandalorian... once all the episodes were up. Then I remembered this was coming out, so decided not to. When this ends, I'm pretty sure I'll see how long it will be until some other show I'm interested in comes out and delay again.
When Mando season 1 happened, I did the free trial and dumped it afterwards. Unless there is a big glut of content coming, I'm just as happy not to sub. If I 'miss' something when its new, oh well.
you'll be subscribed for the rest of the year then. once wanda vision finishes falcon and winter soldier comes out. after that finishes another thing comes out, disney plus basicly has a new series every two months for the rest of the year
Loki might bring me in. F&WS definitely won't. Third string tag-along characters 'bro-ing' around doing... stuff? Pass.
The 'Star' additions don't seem to be happening here, and the shows after Loki are kinda... eh. Ms Marvel is a maybe (not a character I know well, and the animated things they did with her, Squirrel Girl and an Agents of Shield/Spider-teen tie-in ensemble weren't that great) , Secret Invasion could be good, but that's a ways off.
Compel wrote: Thinking about it some, I think Mando Season 2 is where Disney perfected their decision method for going weekly versus binging.
Mando Season 2 basically has a MASSIVE discussion point every two episodes on the show and was kind of a big cycle of Setup / Payoff then Resolution/Setup.
So people just kept on talking about the show, the anticipation of the next Discussion Point encouraging people to subscribe to see it first hand.
Then, of course, you get to the Season Finale and the Climatic Discussion Point with the anticipation for that meaning MORE people sign up...
And people are STILL talking about Climatic Discussion Point.
I'm sure this has all been focus grouped and planned out to the 9th degree... (Which is kind of insidious when you think about it, but then again, Mouse, it's kind of their thing, and would be other companies, if they were competent at it.)
But in an alternate world, where Mandalorian Season 2 was a binging show... This method wouldn't work. You wouldn't get that drip and drab of new people who were excited about what they heard of the Payoff of the last Discussion Point and the Setup of the next Discussion Point.
Instead, all that has just flown by in an evening. Ultimately, the only thing people would have really talked about was the Climatic Discussion Point, which would have likely just had the same impact as it did with the weekly release.
But bringing it back on topic, I'm wondering if my theory will pan out with WandaVision, I think it should... The Discussion Points may be smaller, more based on the shows mystery, but, I can see some echoes of the theory.
This. Weekly episodes deserve dense plotting. There’s stuff in episodes 1 and 2 I missed. So I’ll need to go back and re-watch. I expect much the same of the rest. Obvious stuff, nod and a wink stuff, call backs which add context to earlier happenings etc.
That strikes me as a less rewarding technique for binge series. Those should be spectacle all the way, to keep me bingeing.
Consider the mysteries around Wandavison.
Spoiler:
Wanda and Vision are both aware of their powers, and that need to keep them hidden. But beyond that, they’ve no real knowledge of what’s going on.
Why are we seeing them time travel through Sit Com tropes? Both in terms of the why time travelling, and why sit coms in particular.
There has to be a reason.
Why is some stuff showing in colour, and to Wanda’s concern.
What’s with the commercials? How significant are they?
Is Wanda really pregnant?
Why did Wanda reverse time with the person came out the sewer?
All from less than an hour’s screen time.
Now, make that a full series release on day one, and those talking points would be gone. And for those without the time to binge in a oner, Spoiler City.
I watched it out of curiosity because I quite liked the characters in the movies but I'm not enjoying it TBH. It all seems a bit contrived and it's not really got it's hooks into me compelling me to watch another episode.
I may put it on in the background while I'm painting, if I remember it's on.
chromedog wrote: The visual "gags" are also old enough to be collecting pensions.
That's the point though...
And each episode is taking us through a different decade of those sorts of things. It's not staying 50's/60's black and white sitcom. We're done with that before the end of the second episode.
Who's was still talking, let alone thinking, about Tiger King by April?
Everyone with Netflix must have watched that. It hit at the same time as lockdowns started in the UK. The memes, the internet chat etc.
And then it was gone. People talked about the Mandalorian Series 2 for TWO MONTHS. Surely that's going to bring in more viewers?
Not sure that’s such a good example, given its an exceptionally meme worthy show. So even if people aren’t discussing the plot, it’s at least dented the public consciousness.
It’s not a show for me however, and I’m heartily sick of said memes.
And it all boils down to the content. As noted, Mando and Wandavision were clearly plotted for episodic, week by week discussion. This is close to DS9 and Buffy’s approach, though said shows had no option. All four provide weekly talking points, helping to make each show a date in the calendar.
When a show is designed to be bunged out in a oner? They can take a different approach entirely, as the aim is to keep my eyes on as long as possible.
I really couldn’t say which format I prefer, as my opinion is based entirely on whether the individual experience is worth it. Wandavision and Mando? Keep it episodic, I say!
Ok let's give another example.
Who is still talking about "The Boys'
No one I know, it was replaced by something else.
Who is still talking about lower decks? Or Lovecraft country.
It may stay around a bit longer because of the weekly release schedule but it's not that much longer after the finale.
But the conversation doesn't last long
We stopped talking about Wandavision Saturday night. Or atleast theories.
I find more and more I much prefer the weekly format. The sense of community and culture around such things is a lot stronger than binge shows that demand you watch them the first weekend or just not participate. I'd gotten back to appreciating it via anime, but I'm really happy to see it return to American television as well.
LunarSol wrote: I'm a huge fan of all the source marterial this seems to be inspired by. Very excited to check it out.
If you’re talking about the Vision comic run where he had the whole synth family (I think I saw people making comparisons previously) this is nothing like that story.
I never really cared about the synth family itself, just the inherent premise "sitcom ideal suburbia" falling apart as soon as its exposed to characters that don't fit its rigid structure. The show definitely follows the same ideas that made it a great run, even if it's focus on recreating the sitcoms itself is far more of the focus. Different, but familiar all the same.
Also, my thoughts on what may be going on:
Spoiler:
I'm curious if this is less Wanda's world than it is Vision's. In the first episode we see a SWORD agent watching the episode from a control room. I'm curious if what we're seeing is more of a monitoring of the fragments of Vision that Shuri was trying to separate from the mind stone prior to the snap. The second episode definitely seems to point more towards Wanda though. Both her control she exerts over the world and the outside trying to reach her specifically.
I feel like Agnes is the obvious villain here, being Wanda's confidant and guide. She chips at the 4th wall, but clearly doesn't want it to break. I'd pin her down as some sort of demon (or whatever "not magic but science" version of demons they go with) helping Wanda restore Vision's backup in order to manipulate her into breaking reality to some end.
LunarSol wrote: I find more and more I much prefer the weekly format. The sense of community and culture around such things is a lot stronger than binge shows that demand you watch them the first weekend or just not participate. I'd gotten back to appreciating it via anime, but I'm really happy to see it return to American television as well.
Not to sound like a hipster, but I've been anti-binging for some time (at least back to the Netflix Marvel series.)
If all the episodes are released at once, I'll still largely only watch one a day at most.
I think some shows are now.made with binge watching in mind, but I'd they're not you're effectively trying to turn 8-12 parts of episodic television into one or two ludicrous length movie installments, and this does weird things to the narrative structure.
I expect the 1/week idea is indeed to stretch it out, keep people interested over a longer period of time, and to keep subscriptions up.
Also, while it can be said that people that don't want to binge can spread it out, people that *do* want to binge can just wait until the whole thing has been released.
Were I a producer of said content, or the service that provides it, I'd probably want to stretch that content out some. Like The Boys, and American Gods, on Prime, I know I wouldn't have that service if it weren't for those shows... and truth told I only have that because my wife does the Prime thing. Same with Disney Plus... we (as a family) like the MCU, and Star Wars, so we picked it up to watch Mando and the other movies. We just started watching the MCU in timeline order a couple of weeks ago.
I guess my grand point was that a weekly release schedule is almost certainly a financial decision that the services choose to make maximum profits. I will probably drop and pick up D+ once we clear the MCU timeline, and come back when new Mando is available.
That said! Looking foward to checking out Wandavision. Sounds fun with a bit of a dark undertone... right up my alley.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, this is meant to tie into Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (and is the phase 4 opener).
Genuinely intrigued to see how it copes without Tony and Cap.
Should be fine. Dr. Strange 1 was mostly just plagued by a plodding origin story and an utterly lackluster villain (and villain plot), a lack of Tony and Cap wasn't really an issue for any of the earlier Marvel films. The mediocre ones mostly just lacked stakes and engaging villains.
Azreal13 wrote: Besides, if the persistent rumours are to be believed, it won't have to.
even if they do come back, I don't expect them to be headlining, Tony'll come back as an AI, and my guess is IF Evens comes back it'll be as "old steve" and he'll be playing a similer role to that played by Nick Fury
hotsauceman1 wrote: Well, lets not pretend weekly releases was be best because thats how it always was. IT was a product of restrictions on filiming, TV slots needing to be filled, and getting people to come back in order to go to advertisements.
Tradition =/= inheratnly better.
Culture around TV has changed, and while i like talking about a show, sometimes it can be frusterating when shows that where made with Binging in mind(Hyper serialized like Wandavision, The Boys, The Expanse) are now released weekly.
When older shows where released weejkly, you had a complete episode. Boom, done. come back next week for a new adventure.
People forget that the first THREE seasons of The Expanse were weekly drops, not "all at once". Yes, partly because SyFy (but even the non-syfy 'casters did it weekly. Netflix (Oz), Space (Canuckistan), etc. It was often paired up with another SF show.
It was only S4 that dropped all-at-once. This was because Amazon wanted to make a bigger splash with it.
S5 is weekly and S6 will be also be weekly drops like the pre-S4 seasons.
"Culture" around tv shows hasn't changed. It just went off, like bad yoghurt.
The thing I don’t think anyone has mentioned so far?
With streaming, an episodic release doesn’t preclude bingeing.
Maybe you wanna sign up once it’s all out, watch it, then sign, well, down. Off. Out?
It doesn’t matter to the streaming service, because they’ve still got you watching. And a free sub can only be used once. So for The Mandalorian, they’re getting your month’s sub in season 2 (unless you go and create a new email. Can’t speak for you, but I can’t be bothered with that).
Because the gamble they’re taking is Come for A, stay for X, Y and Z. Even if it’s a ‘never actually get round to cancelling’, it’s still part of the gamble they’re taking.
Me, I do tend to sign up and stay signed up. And it wasn’t until recently I went through my subs and cancelled a bunch, after years. Others of course vary. But my approach no more justifies weekly releases more than the next person only signing up for a set time justifies one and done releases.
Streaming services are the next big tobacco... get 'em hooked young! Get 'em hooked often!
In terms of creating addictive behaviour, a weekly release can literally keep you coming back for more. Humans are impatient animals, and we want that first hit of Mando the moment it comes out. So we subscribe for 2 months, to see the weekly episodes instead of doing a one-month binge at the end.
This catches the impulse shoppers for two months, and you can still get the "controlled" bingers at the end... or anytime for that matter. Once the show is fully released, any extra fish caught in the net are a bonus. And like the good Doc says, people that don't bother to unsubscribe, or that become used to having the service there, stay on.
It's Disney, and I'm sure they realize they don't have a lot of content *right now* to keep people subscribed. Spreading the content out over time is probably the only way to have a chance at maintaining a *monthly* subscription service. 'Till they figure out annual subscriptions could be a thing.
Azreal13 wrote: Besides, if the persistent rumours are to be believed, it won't have to.
even if they do come back, I don't expect them to be headlining, Tony'll come back as an AI, and my guess is IF Evens comes back it'll be as "old steve" and he'll be playing a similer role to that played by Nick Fury
I've been expecting Tony as an AI (and therefore RDJ as voice only, which I assume is a much smaller commitment) pretty much since the holo at his funeral looked directly at his daughter.
Once they confirmed Ironheart that pretty much guaranteed it, as I believe Tony is the Jarvis/Friday in Ironheart's army.
I'm not sure the timeline squares up with Old Steve being anything but a codger, but with the multiverse opening up, there's plenty of options for both of them in small scale bits and pieces.
Azreal13 wrote: Besides, if the persistent rumours are to be believed, it won't have to.
even if they do come back, I don't expect them to be headlining, Tony'll come back as an AI, and my guess is IF Evens comes back it'll be as "old steve" and he'll be playing a similer role to that played by Nick Fury
I've been expecting Tony as an AI (and therefore RDJ as voice only, which I assume is a much smaller commitment) pretty much since the holo at his funeral looked directly at his daughter.
Once they confirmed Ironheart that pretty much guaranteed it, as I believe Tony is the Jarvis/Friday in Ironheart's army.
I'm not sure the timeline squares up with Old Steve being anything but a codger, but with the multiverse opening up, there's plenty of options for both of them in small scale bits and pieces.
Riri only had the Tony AI in the beginning. I forget what happened to it, but she lost that. Currently she’s got one she made that’s based on a dead friend from her past.
Azreal13 wrote: Besides, if the persistent rumours are to be believed, it won't have to.
even if they do come back, I don't expect them to be headlining, Tony'll come back as an AI, and my guess is IF Evens comes back it'll be as "old steve" and he'll be playing a similer role to that played by Nick Fury
I've been expecting Tony as an AI (and therefore RDJ as voice only, which I assume is a much smaller commitment) pretty much since the holo at his funeral looked directly at his daughter.
Once they confirmed Ironheart that pretty much guaranteed it, as I believe Tony is the Jarvis/Friday in Ironheart's army.
I'm not sure the timeline squares up with Old Steve being anything but a codger, but with the multiverse opening up, there's plenty of options for both of them in small scale bits and pieces.
Riri only had the Tony AI in the beginning. I forget what happened to it, but she lost that. Currently she’s got one she made that’s based on a dead friend from her past.
In the 'Marvel Rising' animated movie with her, she sacrifices her AI to defeat some Skrull-created monster. Though I don't think that AI was based on Tony in that (though I could be wrong, there was far too much going on and way too many characters to remember).
Yay for too many media incarnations.
Riri only had the Tony AI in the beginning. I forget what happened to it, but she lost that. Currently she’s got one she made that’s based on a dead friend from her past.
I dropped Marvel comics (too expensive to follow all the comics I wanted to read) before it got resolved. But I think she only lost the Tony AI because corporate decided it was time to resurrect Tony Stark. So the AI had to go be part of that comic event.
Besides, won't Ironheart literally be the beginning? Where she has the Tony AI? Then should RDJ get bored, or too expensive again, they've got precedent to replace.
There is always the possibility of a Heroes Reborn story/set of movies that ends with a recasting with younger actors taking on the roles of Cap, IM, Thor.
The third episode was screened for reviews along with the first two. It sounds like it continues the Bewitched homage from ep 2 but is styled after the later seasons of the show that were in color.
Given it's a 9 episode series and they went out of their way to show it to reviewers in the context of the prior 2, I suspect it will close out act 1, likely setting up act 2 about them raising the children.
Billy is the name of Wiccan. Tommy is the name of Speed.
Remember in episode 2 where Monica (Geraldine) doesn't know her name at first at the garden party thing? She is not from here. She is an outsider that made it in.
Herb and Agnes are other SWORD Agents? At least maybe Herb is. Agnes seems to know the most of what is going on and is either trying to keep her head down or is trying to keep the SWORD guys in check.
Actually... I think Herb is not a SWORD Agent. I think he is just aware of the problem. Maybe Monica let them know she was here to help and Herb was trying to say "She came here because we're all... trapped."
I think that another agency is monitoring/containing Wanda, and that "Geraldine" is a SWORD agent trying to reach Wanda. When "Geraldine" landed, she was quickly surrounded as a threat, rather than SWORD knowing they have an agent on the inside. The toy helicopter is probably how she got in. There was also the voice from the radio trying to reach Wanda from the outside.
LunarSol wrote: What time do the new episodes actually post anyway? As much as I love the weekly schedule, going into spoiler lockdown every Friday gets tiresome.
It looked like midnight EST here in the USA. But maybe it's a rolling release at midnight around the world? Dunno.
Can we not forget that this is supposed to be around the time that S.Witch went literally insane and killed off half the world? I think this is her insane world that she has created to cope with her insanity. This is a long way to go to just do a tie in to a very irrelevant parallel universe twist/arc that really never took off. Odd they took this track for inspiration, but color me enthused. If we see the death of Scarlet Witch out of this, I'll be happy.
LunarSol wrote: What time do the new episodes actually post anyway? As much as I love the weekly schedule, going into spoiler lockdown every Friday gets tiresome.
It looked like midnight EST here in the USA. But maybe it's a rolling release at midnight around the world? Dunno.
Weird. Wasn't up at midnight CST. Possibly an app timing thing though. I was watching something else around the time and the cache might not have reset.
So I usually have a 3 episode rule for pretty much any show- and I can't remember the last time anything squeaking through at the last minute like Wandavision just did what that ending, wow.
So something i noticed. Twin Labour tends to be continuous or at least not like that. The second she heard Vision say tommy, she started having another kid, as if to give vision what he wanted, Billy.
Maybe this is more something wanda made for vision, then wanda making for herself.
Also this definitly takes place, SOMEWJHERE. What those towers are is likely containment for Wandas powers to prevent the TV worled from taking over.
So, really thinking about the last few minutes of episode 3...
Spoiler:
I'm really leaning towards, 'there is no external villain' in the show, there's no ShadowKing or equivalent. It's all Wanda.
Maybe a villain will end up being the manifestation of her grief or something, but ultimately, it's all Wanda.
I think, somehow she was brought to this town, post Endgame, maybe encouraged to have a normal life...
And that triggered something in her, she wanted a normal life. Maybe what America promised what it was supposed to be on TV. Not the experiences she's had as a prisoner of Hydra, nor even when she was locked in at Avengers HQ.
She wanted a normal life... So, she created it for herself. And that meant bringing Vision back.
Her powers rewrote reality, literally walled off the town from the rest of the world, and she gave herself a 'happily ever after' whether the towns inhabitants wanted to or not... Hence the comments about 'never being able to leave...'
Of course, walling off the town in a bubble of an alternate reality brings notice, and that's how a SHIELD successor, SWORD has gotten involved, deploying and building a base around the area, like what SHIELD did when Thor's Hammer showed up all those years ago.
All the weirdness has been SWORDs way to try to breach the reality bubble, overhead via helicopter, then, I think perhaps it was Geraldine in the bee suit trying to break in via the sewers. Which she succeeded, but was caught and basically turned into Wanda's fiction, as part of her 'happily ever after' story...
But when she was asking too many questions, when she brought up Pietro, brought up the grief, the loss... Wanda was in danger of losing her 'happily ever after' and so to ensure that, to protect that... Geraldine was ejected from her reality.
Ok, maybe not that insightful, in hindsight but I've seen enough people say they're not sure what is going on, that I figured I'd try to reframe some events and provide MY GUESSES at gap filling to create a more sort of linear narrative. It could very well be wrong, there could be WAY MORE of a mystery that hasn't been shown yet but, I guess, I hope I've provided enough of a framework that someone can like, replace the gaps where I've got the guessing wrong.
I had a thought today. I think Wanda has been going mad/using her reality warping powers since Quicksilver died in Age of Ultron.
I don't think the actress dropped the accent because meta reasons. I think Wanda couldn't handle the loss of Quicksilver and so warped reality to adjust herself to fit in with the new family. Burying her grief and thoughts about her brother and changing herself to fit in with her new American based "family".
We have been watching Wanda low key effect herself and her reality this entire time. Loosing Vision and the events of Endgame just pushed her way over the edge into creating this bubble reality.
It may not be actual reality warping. It could be similar to what she did in AoU where ideas she implanted totally altered someone's perception of reality. She may be forcing that on an entire town and the "bubble" we see might be something set up to contain the reach of her mind control.
I imagine he’s still quite dead and that look we had at his animated corpse is what he really is right now and it’s all a forced make believe on her part. She doesn’t want him to be dead so she’s made a place where he isn't, which is why they can’t go somewhere else.
Wanda is the villain of this show. She's basically reanimating Vision's corpse, she's trapped everyone in the town* and is basically using her powers to convince herself that everything is right with the world.
When something goes against what she wants, she alters reality to 'cut' it out. When she loses concentration, she sees the cracks of reality (Vision's dead eyes and blasted forehead).
How do they stop her? Can they stop her?
Other amazing bits from this episode:
The reverse snap from the point of view of Monica Rambeau (who, whenever they call her by name, I just think "Rambo" ), and in the craziness of a hospital. Remember the "unsnappening" was played for laughs in Far From Home. Not so here. It was harrowing.
The return of Jimmy Wu (laughed out loud when he did the card trick with the ID - Scott Lang really rubbed off on him! ) and of course, if Tony Stark is the MCU's king of snark, then Darcy would be its queen. So happy she's back, and that she actually made something of herself by changing her major and getting a frickin' doctorate in astrophysics!!!
*Agnes remains a complete wild card. Note that the board of identities had them find out who each person was, with their NJ IDs... except Agnes!
And yeah, the un-snapping was really freaky in this one. I think the most horrifying bit as seeing Monica witness her own body parts undusting. What would that feel like?
Like Spidey said, he was dusty, then not. No perception for time having passed at all.
As for Agnes? I’m wondering if it’s some kinda Hydra mind-control failsafe type thing.
Very welcome return of Darcy. A solid use of existing in-universe characters to keep it all keyed together.
As for talking Wanda down? Well, that can’t do a Total Recall, beyond Hawkeye, as Wanda has never been shown as particularly close to anyone barring Vision and Quicksilver. So I’m not seeing an appeal to her heart to try and help her grieve. And now she has the twins, if she leaves, she’s losing even more.
I think they're going to have to appeal to 'Vision' - I'm imagining something along the lines of:
"I'm not real, none of this is real, Wanda... I'm just a memory of a man you love and... I can't be that, not really, if you let those innocent people remain trapped here. You know that is not who I am, that is not who you are..."
As for Agnes, I personally I have NO IDEA whats going on with her. Some theories I've seen around the internet are suggesting she could be Mephisto. - A peer of Dormanu from the Doctor Strange movie.
Basically Marvel's devil.
That... I seem unconvinced of that. I think like Grotsnik says, Agnes is going to be *some* part of a manifestation of her subconscious in some way. Whether it's Hydra or on the other end of the scale a better part of her that rejects the fantasy... Something.
Overall, I'd definitely say, if you like this, but want something MORE mindscrewy with more horror elements, check out Legion.
Or a similar mindscrewishness, but with more comedy, Doom Patrol.
Something I want to do is go back and binge the first four episodes.
Why?
Spoiler:
Well, when S.W.O.R.D are piecing it together, I feel we’re being lead by the nose at bit too much.
We’re given specific questions by Darcy, such as ‘why sitcoms’, which we ourselves have collectively raised.
And I’ve a feeling this is a prime opportunity for the writers to hide hints, and even deliberately wrong foot us.
Reckon I’d start by rewatching episode 4, and making my notes based on S.W.O.R.D.S. observations, then go back to 1, 2 and 3, seeing if there’s anything they didn’t flag up.
There were DEFINITELY things that we the audience saw that SWORD did not. SWORD were watching a relatively coherent narrative with broadcast interruptions. During those interruptions, we as the audience, saw what was 'really' happening. Most typically Wanda rewinding time when her fantasy was disturbed, by, for example, Vision questioning things, or the Beekeeper. Or 'Geraldine' confronting Wanda.
More theories from the internet
Spoiler:
Agnes' husband Ralph (who is never seen), is Mephisto, who is the villain of Dr Strange 2. And is wanting something out of Wanda's children - I'm assuming this is all very DC/Titans 'Trigon/Raven' kinda stuff....
Personally, which this seems more likely, I'm still somewhat unconvinced... Assuming I'm not getting names confused, Agnes seems to be more actively working against Wanda, rather than encouraging/indulging her fantasy or egging her on.
Could Agnes perhaps be the person the FBI put into Witness Protection in the first place?
I think the 'calculations' that Vision does are kind of simple...
1) They're a commentary / joke on peoples unspecified jobs in many early sitcoms.
2) They're an illustration of the 'artificialness' and 'wrongness' of the world, that delving into Episode 4 spoilers...
Spoiler:
The calculations are meaningless, because quite simply, Wanda doesn't ascribe meaning to them in her Fantasy World. They don't do anything, they don't mean anything, because Wanda doesn't care about them meaning or anything. They're just a facsimile to give the impression of a normal life.
Like on a painting where you have background characters and things that are not rendered in as much detail. - Squiggles on a signpost, that sort of thing.
I still reckon Wanda is using ‘resonant frequency’ to put his Stone back together.
After all, she can manipulate reality, yes? And her power is entirely derived from the Mind Stone.
We also witnessed Wanda use her powers to shatter it, before Thanos used the Time Stone to cancel out her efforts, yes?
The bits and bobs remains of those stones will still exist in some fashion. Basic laws of the universe that.
What if “Visions” calculations represent that? Wanda’s efforts to figure out how?
Also interesting to me, in a tangent? When Monica was booted from Wandaworld, Wanda genuinely seemed surprised she had powers when she looked at her hands? Despite us seeing her use them in episode 2?
Man I love this show! And indeed discussing it with my fellow Dakkanauts.
In particular, big props to those who haven’t found the show interesting or engaging for leaving those of us who do to get on with the froth It is genuinely appreciated.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oooh....eeewwwww. Seriously unpleasant thought.
Spoiler:
Given Vision and Wanda are both powered by the Mind Stone? What if her obsession isn’t Vision, and she never loved Vision, but the Stone itself? Akin to Gollum?
Been a bit since I saw the first two Thors. Was Darcy not competent in those? Or was she just over shadowed by a pair of geniuses, and possibly her own quirkiness?
Well she wasn’t even a physicist to start with (I think the first film said she was a political science major?). I mean she wasn’t exactly incompetent (and she certainly knew her way round a taser!) but also not exactly the world-saving problem solver either.
2 things that I've not seen raised anywhere that seem like they might be important.
When Wu is talking to Wanda over the radio, he asks her something along the lines of "who's doing this to you?' At this precise second on the broadcast, it cuts to the advert for the Hydra Watch.
Secondly, the episode plays out to Voodoo Child. Possibly a reference to someone being controlled against their will, but there's several ways now that could fit.
AduroT wrote: Been a bit since I saw the first two Thors. Was Darcy not competent in those? Or was she just over shadowed by a pair of geniuses, and possibly her own quirkiness?
She was competent. Functionally, she was the baby sitter for two non-functional idiot-savants.
But being the Whedon-style Snark Girl and a not-yet-graduated political science intern for an astrophysicist obscured that.
That's my guess too. If the person was Wanda, it would have been a SHIELD or SWORD matter originally, not FBI.
Plus they seemed relatively surprised to see her on the monitor.
Assuming there actually IS a Missing Person in Witness Protection, and it wasn't just a cover for the whole Missing Town, I think signs are pointing towards Agnes being the person in Witness Protection.
I don't think we've seen the beekeeper turn up in the town yet.
I don't think we've seen the beekeeper turn up in the town yet.
Spoiler:
He popped out of the sewer at the end of ep.2 but Wanda rewound time and he didn't appear again.
Were the Avengers identities publicly known (apart from Cap & Stark)?
Spoiler:
Would Woo & Darcy have recognised Wanda & Vision? I know they've both been involved with Avengers / SHIELD before, but neither of them seem particularly high-level...
People know Black Widow from Captain America 2 and her testifying before Congress.
I would have thought Wanda would be world (in)famous, as it was her that kicked off the whole Sokovian Accords situation in Civil War when she was filmed basically blowing up a building. (Well, as people would see it).
I kinda feel like I need to rewatch Episode 4 to understand peoples reactions now...
They've all been caught on camera doing super things in public spaces, and no one at all tries to hide their identity, except maybe Black Panther (and that mask came off a -lot- in his film).
Maybe Black Widow, but that's more the spy thing and her background as a child soldier/assassin experiment. Her public identity is essentially fake and meaningless.
The whole super hero secret identity thing is largely discarded in the MCU. Wanda's certainly doesn't matter as she's an orphan with no remaining ties.
Voss wrote: The whole super hero secret identity thing is largely discarded in the MCU.
This is what I'm not sure about - Wanda & Vision were hiding in Scotland at the start of Infinity War, but that doesn't necessary mean their identities were secret.
I got mine in just under 4. However European doctorates seem to be a fundamentally different system than american ones.
And then there is the Brian May method. Stop your PhD to push through being a world famous guitarist, then discover 25 years later it hasn't been finished off by anyone else and finish it off anyway
Voss wrote: The whole super hero secret identity thing is largely discarded in the MCU.
This is what I'm not sure about - Wanda & Vision were hiding in Scotland at the start of Infinity War, but that doesn't necessary mean their identities were secret.
Yeah, I think that was just 'away from the team' for 'us time' and he can put on a different face, and she can wear a hat or just jolt someone's brain if they do recognize her.
I mean, why bring it up if it wont be important. Chekovs gun and all that.
I mean we need to find a reason why she ended up in westview from avengers. Especially so soon(Seems like only a few weeks?)
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean, why bring it up if it wont be important. Chekovs gun and all that.
I mean we need to find a reason why she ended up in westview from avengers. Especially so soon(Seems like only a few weeks?)
Because it's only importance to this story is that it draws attention to the situation that would otherwise go unnoticed.
We can also take stock of Wanda’s position overall.
Since her introduction, she’s lost everyone she loved. First her brother, then Vision (twice!).
She was then snapped out of existence, only to return.
Very near revenge on Thanos, the being responsible for so much of her suffering (she comes the closest of the lot to taking him out single handed. Remember, he needed a bombardment to sort that one).
The trauma of that battle isn’t something one just shakes off I’d say, especially for someone without specific military training.
Before that? She’s ultimately always been a prisoner. First of Strucker, then under house arrest because reasons.
That’s...that’s a lot for anyone to process, let alone someone who can alter reality, and seemingly isn’t the most socialised.
Yeah, forgot that Wanda got snapped and will only have returned a few weeks ago. The fact that Rambeau is the only "snapped" member of SWORD back on duty yet implies that most people are still having an understandably large amount of trouble coping with what happened. And after losing Vision, being involved in two massive battles THIS MONTH (subjectively) and then being told "no wait, that was all 5 years ago" - anyone's grip on reality is going to be tenuous.
The drone Rambeau uses seems very low-tech compared to the ones used by Fitz in Agents of SHIELD. Did Fitz not share his tech, or did SWORD not want the FBI to see their good stuff?
I think there's a general belief of, 'pretend Agents of SHIELD doesn't exist, and the netflix series exist even less.'
But you can throw other explanations in such like Government bureaucracy, supply line and logistical issues. Agencies just Not Playing Nicely with each other.
And that's before you get to the questions of the societal impact on technology of 50% of the worlds population vanishing for 5 years.
I mean, SWORD likely needs expensive tech for its specific role. Those costs can be offset by using Bog Standard tech in non-essential areas. Especially if you don’t expect to get it back?
hotsauceman1 wrote: I think for me, the weird thing was they where it was modeled like a helicopter.
Why would a govt agency use drones shaped like a toy.
Helicopter drones do exist but are usually larger, and quadcopters are more common.
The drone Rambeau uses seems very low-tech compared to the ones used by Fitz in Agents of SHIELD. Did Fitz not share his tech, or did SWORD not want the FBI to see their good stuff?
Simpler answer: Agents of SHIELD isn't part of the MCU.
The drone Rambeau uses seems very low-tech compared to the ones used by Fitz in Agents of SHIELD. Did Fitz not share his tech, or did SWORD not want the FBI to see their good stuff?
Simpler answer: Agents of SHIELD isn't part of the MCU.
Yup. It's not like there is a world wide pandemic of inhumans and their royal family running amok around hawaii or anything.
Well... Agents of SHIELD isn't part of the MCU _yet_ if rumours are to be believed.
SWORD in the MCU may be an outgrowth of the fact that SHIELD was essentially destroyed, driven underground and regarded as part of HYDRA for a good couple of years before being rehabilitated somewhat. Various governments may have decided they don't entirely trust SHIELD and have set up a parallel agency - which is fairly new, as Rambeus' mother set it up - to deal with Wierd Stuff.
If SHIELD is back on the block, interagency friction ahoy!
So we are at
80s: Ful House it seems
90s IDK, maybe Something like fresh prince or Maybe more cynical ones like Rosanne?
00s Its likley going to switch to single camera like Malcolm in the Middle.
10s Scrubs and Modernfamily with a narrative / talking to the camera.
Billy and Tommy suddenly aging to 5 - Agnes providing a distraction?
Agnes is definitely Someone. Seemingly monitoring the situation, and providing aid or distractions.
Vision continues to notice the ‘cracks’.
Elisabeth Olsen could wear a bin liner and still be stunning.
Yay for confirming that Wanda could’ve squished Thanos single handed!
Unknown power set...awesome!
Vision shows a tiny glimmer of future knowledge.
Others caught up are suffering. That’s less than good.
Wanda’s accent dropped outside of the Hex....
And she’s gonna completely hatstand bonkers.
That’s at least the second time we’ve seen the same actress in the ads. Significant?
Whaaaaaaat the hell is going on!
Vision is almost certainly through the looking glass now.
Pietro? BUT NOT HER PIETRO!!!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA??????
And that’s what my brain said when watching episode 5.
Now for some processed thoughts, touching on subjects discussed previously.
Spoiler:
They’re really leaning on the episodic format. Each episode gives a few more bread crumbs, and occasionally a full slice.
I know this is spoilered so peeps may not see it, but I’d recommend those holding off until all the episodes are available to at least watch it in chunks, as I think a full series binge, on the first go round, may lead to things being missed.
And it was a helluva mid-season episode. Shifted gears very neatly.
It really didn't look like Wanda was expecting Pietro to show up, re-cast of otherwise. So who's doing this? Or is she losing her mind? Talking immediately before implied that controlling everything in Westview was taking its toll.
Is he the witness protection subject? Wu's been involved in looking after superpowered people before, after all.
This episode changes the MCU. That... ending. That... character. We're in uncharted waters now. Anything is up for grabs at this point.
Spoiler:
Yeah, so... Quicksilver, but the Fox X-Men Quicksilver.
What the fething feth???
And Wanda walking out of the town and threatening Sword. Her accent coming back. Confirmation she stole Vision's body. The twins being immune to Wanda's powers. Agnes getting creepier. Wanda and Vision fighting.
Really making me wonder if this is the point Disney start to switch from "We make TV shows based on our movies" to "We make movies based on our TV shows"
After all, it being a TV show is the whole gimmick. And they certainly seem to be going that way with Star Wars.
I suspect Disney are just simply pursuing a different strategy as Warner (Same day HBO Max, Cinema release), but with the same end goal - driving cinema companies out of business, then buying their assets to create Disney/Warner Exclusive Cinemas.
I think by having major content as TV shows, driving people towards streaming, people may be inclined towards just watching what movies that do come out on Disney+ - I remember being *astounded* at how quickly Rise of Skywalker and Endgame appeared on Disney+, and that was in the UK.
This might all be my own pet conspiracy theory, but it also just feels all so... likely... to me, all it assumes is that companies do what companies do.
Outside of the Big Movies, Star Wars does suit a TV series. We need only look to Clone Wars and Rebels to see the opportunities for cool stories outside but kinda adjacent to the main themes.
Rebels and Mando are of particular interest, because whilst cameos are of course a thing, we’re following entirely new characters.
Wandavision likewise isn’t terribly reliant on the two main characters. The points of interest to me comes from everyone else around them.
I suspect Disney are just simply pursuing a different strategy as Warner (Same day HBO Max, Cinema release), but with the same end goal - driving cinema companies out of business, then buying their assets to create Disney/Warner Exclusive Cinemas.
I think by having major content as TV shows, driving people towards streaming, people may be inclined towards just watching what movies that do come out on Disney+ - I remember being *astounded* at how quickly Rise of Skywalker and Endgame appeared on Disney+, and that was in the UK.
This might all be my own pet conspiracy theory, but it also just feels all so... likely... to me, all it assumes is that companies do what companies do.
Based on my local fleapits (remote, only reliably accessible by car, bloody expensive) I fear Cinema has had its day.
After all, why would I want to pay the thick end of £20 to sit in a dark auditorium with others, who may be incapable of not bloody talking or switching their phones off, when I can watch at home on equipment not far off that of the cinema (4K TV, can add speakers if I can be bothered some day).
Example? Went to see Black Panther, as I do like to see my MCU on the big screen, despite my earlier comments. Throughout the entire film, a child would not shut up. In the worst, spoiled brat whine it was a constant barrage of “mummy I’m booooooored. Daddy I don’t want to watch thiiiiiiiiiis. I waaaaaant more iiiiiice creeeeeeeam. Daddy.....daddy.....daddddddyyyyyyyy”. I never want a repeat of that experience. Ever.
In fact, the one thing from this whole pandemic crap that I miss the most is going to the cinema.
At the end of 2019 I bought a giant 75" top-of-the-line Samsung smart TV. Very handy, given what kicked off a few months later, but I still want to experience things on the actual big screen.
Fair enough! I can assure you it’s a less than pleasant experience.
Feel hard to judge though. Despite the whining, kid could be on the spectrum, or an inadvertently spoiled child, where the parents are now making a stand and not giving into demands etc.
Okay, everyone knew that at some point they were going to want to fold the X-men into the MCU, but here?! Holy gak, that was a hell of a twist! Given it completely wrong-footed Wanda, I’m also wondering if this is the “witness protection” person. (As an aside, using witness protection as an excuse for keeping mutants under house arrest possibly? Wu’s been involved with that before.)
Also, what’s with the “no kids in Westview” thing? Is it just Wanda not wanting to mind control children or something more creepy?
These questions and soo many more; they certainly aren’t half-arsing this show.
Some more internet rumours. I'm not entirely sure how well the previous ones I've posted have stacked up.
Spoiler:
The rumour is
Evan Peters is NOT playing Quicksilver at *all* it's simply a joke / misdirection. He is, in fact, playing Mephisto and attempting to manipulate Wanda and sow doubt throughout, now that Vision is uncovering the truth.
This is backed up by SWORD having dialogue essentially reminding people that Wanda's powers from the mind stone just Don't Work Like That, and thus it really IS Mephisto pulling the strings and Evan Peters Quicksilver is functionally a red herring.
This also dovetails with some chatter I've been seeing that suggests Disney are not going with the 'griefstricken woman goes crazy' trope.
I just kinda... Don't know anymore. I think the show has officially exhausted any of my attempts at predictions now.
[spoiler]Monica Rambeau's scan results were certainly interesting.
Oh man, with everything else I forgot about that little chestnut.
Spoiler:
So I’m wondering if that really is Monica Rambeau or, to go with the Mephisto rumor, is that another case of Mephisto trying to gain Wanda’s trust. Might have to rewatch the whole post Westview Monica sequences.
But overall, really loving this episode! Pacing’s tough, especially when you’re trying to do something completely different than a “normal” show. But this episode really moved the story forward on so many fronts. Still processing all of it...
I’m completely on-board with the idea that Wanda had no idea Quicksilver was at the door, never mind that he was “recast”. Her surprise seemed genuine to me... But interesting that the whole theme of “ family is forever” and death came full circle in this one. Plus Wanda trying to teach her children there are rules which, clearly, she didn’t completely follow herself. And then her dead brother shows up. Interesting... Flipping the House of M script and have Wanda “snap” the mutants into existence rather than out? That would certainly fit with the MCU riffing on Marvel comics without directly copying them.
Great that she can’t control Vision or the kids like she can the others. At least not directly. Equally, the kids at least recognize that she has power (and openly discuss it in front of Agnes who doesn’t miss a beat). Which brings us to the very interesting fact that Agnes is completely blasé about the kids aging like they did and about Wanda “finding” collar for Sparky. While some of the other characters seem to be somewhat aware and/or comfortable with Wanda and Vision not being normal, that seems materially different to me.
Oh, and did I miss it? Who sent the email to Vision? And, dang, almost forgot.. Norm said that “she” was controlling him, and Vision clearly assumes it’s Wanda. He he never said that, did he? Could “she” be Agnes or even Dottie?
And one last thing that got me wondering... If Wanda stole Vision’s body, are we going to find out that she (or someone else?) also stole the at-least partial copy of his brain that was being downloaded in Wakanda just prior to the attack by Thanos? Clearly the current Vision is not “just” Wanda’s creation since he has agency outside of her. Could it be the downloaded Vision brain that is behind the Vision in Westview? And for that matter, I’m wondering if her attempted reductio ad absurdam statement to Vision about how she can’t possible be controlling every person in Westview doesn’t also have a bit of truth to it.
Definitely feels like she cut a deal of some kind with another power in this whole thing.
Wanda at least claiming she doesn’t know how all this began.
Now, all we know for a fact is she stole Vision’s body, and now knows it’s a fantasy of her own making.
This is further suggested when Vision says at first, he could rationalise it as Wanda not being fully aware at the beginning, only later realising what was going on.
That remains a possibility. Akin to whashisface wanting back into the Matrix in The Matrix, ignorance being bliss.
I wonder if there are rug pulls to come or not. We’ve only 4 episodes left, so I’m hoping they don’t get caught up in twists to the detriment of the conclusion.
Also, I still can’t remember if this is a stand alone series, or the first of a set arc? I do know it’s meant to tie in to Multiverse of Madness, but that film isn’t out until March 2022, which would allow for a second season of Wandavision, assuming the same release schedule this time next year.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also alsö
Spoiler:
Darcy, rather enthusiastically mentioned she knows an Astrophysicist. Jane or Erik? Place your bets!
Ok so there where some good misdirections in this one.
Spoiler:
One was right after the scene saying they needed to send something in that wouldn't be altered we get the office scene. Which shows us the email, we assume that is it right? But then the drone comes and we find out its that, then who sent the email?
ALso Vision says that, yes eventually he a computer can find you a wife. He knows computers will be able to do that, so he can vaguly remember his past somehow.
But here is the thing. Im thinking, Sitcom wanda isnt actually real Wanda playing the role, i think its totally someone else. Sitcom wanda doesnt have the same powers at regular Wanda, and when her perfect life in interupted, Real Wanda Steps in.
Also, very meta, those child actors played horrible child actors perfectly, its like they where not even playing a role!!!!
Agreed. I’m not familiar with him as a character, but
Spoiler:
This being Wanda dealing with grief is just far more interesting.
Still intrigued by the Pupper though. The boys seemingly found it without a collar. This seemed to have surprised Wanda.
Then it just.....sort of dies, whilst eating berries from Agnes’ bush.
Given Agnes is aware of what’s going on (asking Wanda if she wanted to redo her entrance), I don’t think that’s simply coincidence. And as noted elsewhere, we didn’t see S.W.O.R.D. List her on the “actors” board. Most curiously, Monica hasn’t clocked that, and I’m pretty sure she met Agnes?
I wouldn’t be opposed to Mephisto. Messing with people who are dealing with grief is a big thing for him. He’s a real kick em while they’re down sort of dude. Also kick em if they try to climb back up.
This being a back door introduction to Mephisto would be good for some future things too. Dr. Strange could face him in some capacity in Multiverse of Madness (though I actually hope for Shub Niggurath) and it lays a foundation for Ghost Rider.
Darcy, rather enthusiastically mentioned she knows an Astrophysicist. Jane or Erik? Place your bets!
I was thinking
Spoiler:
Reed Richards maybe ? Make sense he would be working for SWORD
I still think the missing person in the witness protection program is relevant
Spoiler:
maybe he or she is why Wanda went to Westview in the first place -- presumably/possibly with Visions body.
Could be, say, a former hydra/AIM/whatever tech guy or something -- she has access to the Avenger files and/or all the info that Widow released might've mentioned him or her
They try to bring him back .. funky interaction between her powers maybe leftover infinity stone energy..or an extra outside entity ...
Of course you'd think that Woo might've twigged or mentioned this but he has been busy and presumably only just learnt that Vision's body was taken by Wanda.
So, a thought after having a conversation with a friend about that appearance at the end there...
Spoiler:
My buddy, who also loves the MCU, had absolutely no clue who Peter Evans was because the X-Men were off in their own 20th Century Fox universe and he wasn't invested because... well, let's face it, the Fox X-Men films were a mixed bag. Only today, after talking about it with me a few days after having seen the episode, did he realize who that actually was, and that really has me wondering how many other MCU fans just didn't get that final cameo.
Perhaps a few more on actual first viewing, but with the entire media of the nerdverse going nuts over it, it's not going to be a bit of information that's going to evade people for long, even if they don't know to look for it.
Azreal13 wrote: I'd guess maybe, including your buddy, three?
Perhaps a few more on actual first viewing, but with the entire media of the nerdverse going nuts over it, it's not going to be a bit of information that's going to evade people for long, even if they don't know to look for it.
Would it have nearly the same impact learning the significance from some random article on social media though? Like, when I saw that scene I yelped so high that only dogs could hear me. I really don't think you could replicate that kind of 'oh gak!' moment when you're just scrolling down your feed, see an article, read it, and then go 'ohhhhhhhh.... oh.'
Or maybe I'm wrong and the difference is negligible for most people. *shrug*
Given how long Evan Peters has been associated with the role (almost 7 years according to IMDB) across three high profile movies (and Deadpool 2) I think the odds of many people who were already disposed to watch this show not being at least tangentially aware he was significant are pretty small.
Frankly if the studio had any real significant doubt that it wouldn't work as intended they'd have played it differently.
Well they've had a lot of time to finish the series.
Remember that we were meant to be getting these last year. 2020 wasn't meant to be a Marvel-less year. We were supposed to get at least 3 films, plus Falcon/Winter Soldier (as the first series) and then either Wandavision or Loki next.
Loki won't be far behind Falcon/Winter Soldier, I imagine.
creeping-deth87 wrote: So, a thought after having a conversation with a friend about that appearance at the end there...
Spoiler:
My buddy, who also loves the MCU, had absolutely no clue who Peter Evans was because the X-Men were off in their own 20th Century Fox universe and he wasn't invested because... well, let's face it, the Fox X-Men films were a mixed bag. Only today, after talking about it with me a few days after having seen the episode, did he realize who that actually was, and that really has me wondering how many other MCU fans just didn't get that final cameo.
The important thing is that within the show they referenced it's a different person when Darcy mentions the recast. So even if people don't realize it's Fox's Quicksilver, they are made aware that it isn't the same person and that fact is significant. The icing on the cake is that within the genre of sitcoms recasting characters fits as a trope that everyone is aware of already, so that makes it extra interesting.
Will Vision know the difference? If Wanda doesn't (which it already seems like is the case) does that mean that someone is mind controlling her as well as everyone else? When Vision breaks Norm free from the mind control he tells Vision that you have to stop her, but he never says Wanda. It could be some other "her" pulling all the strings?
where Wanda starts pulling mutants from other Timelines. Incoming Deadpool Cameo!
My guess?
Spoiler:
This will essentially be a one off thing that establishes that Wanda isn't changing reality but merely pulling from other realities. The next episodes moments of "wrongness" are going to center on how this Pietro's past doesn't line up with hers. We won't see Fox's world cross over but we'll establish it as a parallel reality.
On that note, Deadpool accidentally already got set up to cross over. His movie literally ends with him messing around with a time machine, which canonically means he's playing around in alternative realities and very easily could accidentally end up in the MCU.
So what 90's sitcom do we think is going to get parodied in the next episode? Malcolm in the Middle didn't start until 2000 so that is probably going to be 2 episodes from now, and I'm guessing Modern Family is going to be the 2010's parody episode.
What were the popular family sitcoms in the 90's? All I can remember is like Friends which isn't really a family sitcom so probably isn't what they are going to do.
So was this really how Maria Rambeau was written out of the MCU? Offscreen death in a passing reference? I liked her in Captain Marvel and this just seems like a disservice, not to mention a waste of her potential.
Necroagogo wrote: So was this really how Maria Rambeau was written out of the MCU? Offscreen death in a passing reference? I liked her in Captain Marvel and this just seems like a disservice, not to mention a waste of her potential.
Ah well. Wandavision's still top-notch, though.
Well I mean... She was like 30. So it would be her in her early 60s at this point? We already did that with Peggy Carter in Winter Solider and Civil War. Her characters contribution at this stage wouldn't be much different. With her being dead from cancer and the way Monica was talking about Cap. Marvel I suspect maybe Monica blames Carol (her powers and/or some kind of radiation being a supposed cause for the cancer. Or her just disappearing for so many years kind of thing... dunno). Now her mothers death can act as a wedge between the 2 characters and that is both more interesting and something we haven't seen yet.
I don't get why she'd feel "abandoned" really. Carol was gone all the way up to the snap, so its not like Monica would have any sense of her return. It's very possible we'll learn that she stuck around on Earth for a while and only returned to space after Maria's death.
Given how powerful Carol is, there may be a lingering sense that she could have stopped her mum from dying (even though she probably couldn’t), or at least been there for her going through that misery.
With Pietro But Not That Pietro Like A Different Pietro But Not Wanda’s Pietro....
Could we be seeing a ballsy attempt to start making sense of the X-Men timeline?
Spoiler:
Question is how? Is the “Wandavision” Pietro actually her brother? I’ve seen one theory floating around that he’s actually Mephisto. But the one I saw just recently, that I actually kinda of like is that he might be Loki(!)...
The logic being that Loki managing to snag the Time Stone created the timeline fork that The Ancient One warned Hulk about. And we know that Loki is going to be involved with the Time Variance Authority. Which, since Loki is Loki, will undoubtably end up with some kind of mischief happening. Anyway, if he needed Wanda’s power for something, he might blip back to the “main” MCU timeline. Maybe because whatever Wanda’s doing in Eastview poses a threat the TVA has to deal with? Perhaps breaking down the barriers between the timelines? Cuz that never happens in the comics...
But, and here’s the bit that hooks me, if the forked timeline he was in was the one with mutants, the only “Pietro” his might know was the one from the X-Men series, not the mainline MCU one. So he shows up in Eastview, appearing as the Pietro he knows, not as the one from the main MCU timeline.
Anyway, she “recognizes” him as her brother since she’s probably aware, at some level, that X-Men Quicksilver “Is” her brother (albeit from another timeline). Hence her pause, but her seeming acceptance that he’s Pietro. Mephisto or Agatha Harkness could still be the “bad guy” proper in WandaVision since Loki, has more or less been reformed into just a trickster, not villain. That pulls the Disney+ shows together, works with the multiverse of madness potential of the next Dr. Strange movie, and gives a path to bring the X-Men into the MCU.
Anyway, just a fun “what if” exercise. It’ll be fun to see how this all plays out... I’m freaking loving what Disney’s doing here.
I would bet all my money that they are not going to say this has anything to do with the various fox x men franchises. Those timelines are such a complete mess along with using and recasting characters over and over that I am sure the MCU wants to use with fresh new takes. That gak is going to get buried and forgotten.
Spoiler:
Who THIS Pietro is wand why he has been "recast" is a self contained mystery of the show itself. Though at this point I think it's more Agnes who did this part of it.
Agnes is clearly involved in a way that is very different from say... Norm. Norm is forced to play a part with his actual personality and thoughts over written. Agnes is getting mental messages about what Wanda wants to happen but shes is playing along in a way the others do not seem to be. So what exactly is Agnes's deal I think is the bigger question then who this new Pietro is (Remember that the Fox version isn't even named Pietro - he's Peter). If Wanda really didn't make him and really didn't bring him to the door then the only other option on the table right now is Agnes.
With Pietro But Not That Pietro Like A Different Pietro But Not Wanda’s Pietro....
Could we be seeing a ballsy attempt to start making sense of the X-Men timeline?
Spoiler:
Question is how? Is the “Wandavision” Pietro actually her brother? I’ve seen one theory floating around that he’s actually Mephisto. But the one I saw just recently, that I actually kinda of like is that he might be Loki(!)...
The logic being that Loki managing to snag the Time Stone created the timeline fork that The Ancient One warned Hulk about. And we know that Loki is going to be involved with the Time Variance Authority. Which, since Loki is Loki, will undoubtably end up with some kind of mischief happening. Anyway, if he needed Wanda’s power for something, he might blip back to the “main” MCU timeline. Maybe because whatever Wanda’s doing in Eastview poses a threat the TVA has to deal with? Perhaps breaking down the barriers between the timelines? Cuz that never happens in the comics...
But, and here’s the bit that hooks me, if the forked timeline he was in was the one with mutants, the only “Pietro” his might know was the one from the X-Men series, not the mainline MCU one. So he shows up in Eastview, appearing as the Pietro he knows, not as the one from the main MCU timeline.
Anyway, she “recognizes” him as her brother since she’s probably aware, at some level, that X-Men Quicksilver “Is” her brother (albeit from another timeline). Hence her pause, but her seeming acceptance that he’s Pietro. Mephisto or Agatha Harkness could still be the “bad guy” proper in WandaVision since Loki, has more or less been reformed into just a trickster, not villain. That pulls the Disney+ shows together, works with the multiverse of madness potential of the next Dr. Strange movie, and gives a path to bring the X-Men into the MCU.
Anyway, just a fun “what if” exercise. It’ll be fun to see how this all plays out... I’m freaking loving what Disney’s doing here.
Valete,
JohnS
Just to be nitpicky, Loki steals the Space stone in Endgame.
As for Fox's films; it seems like we're firmly in the pre-crisis DC era of "if something doesn't fit, it was in an alternative universe" and I think we're going to see that leaned on pretty hard. It's all connected, it CAN all crossover with the right magics, but fundamentally these things exist in their own bubbles with different versions existing alongside them and only certain events impact the "main" story branch.
AduroT wrote: Interesting note. The X-Men movies, and thus this Pietro, took place in the 80’s, which happened to be the decade they were homaging in that episode.
I though Days of Future past took place in the 70s?
AduroT wrote: Interesting note. The X-Men movies, and thus this Pietro, took place in the 80’s, which happened to be the decade they were homaging in that episode.
I though Days of Future past took place in the 70s?
First Class took place in the 60s. Phoenix was 90s. It was a gimmick that stopped making sense very quickly.
Just to be nitpicky, Loki steals the Space stone in Endgame.
Slightly more picky: Alternate Universe Loki stole the space stone, and as far as we know, he's still in that alternate universe (unlike alternate Gamora, who's stuck in the main universe). I presume his show is going to start with him crossing over into the main universe, or something similar.
As for Fox's films; it seems like we're firmly in the pre-crisis DC era of "if something doesn't fit, it was in an alternative universe" and I think we're going to see that leaned on pretty hard. It's all connected, it CAN all crossover with the right magics, but fundamentally these things exist in their own bubbles with different versions existing alongside them and only certain events impact the "main" story branch.
It has the potential to get very silly very fast. I actually hope this show (and Loki, to be honest) doesn't end up as primarily as a prop to explain things that don't actually need explaining. The problem with this sort of thing is it can undercut the stakes a lot. Bob is dead? New Bob steps in from alternate/timeline/reality/future and it never matters again.
There are literally 1000s of Marvel characters and plotlines. Plenty of room for permanent ends and consequences and a reason to care about the character's circumstances. A revolving door cheapens that.
Thus far the MCU has done a good job of making consequences stick. Even the snap was undone with some significant cost and the stones themselves never got as trivially powerful as they are in the comics.
I think key to that is the idea that pulling from another universe "costs" that universe, so we're not liking to see permanent refugees so much as just excuses to give people a chance to do stories that can be disconnected from the main MCU after a few projects that establish how it works (namely the loose trilogy of WV, Strange2, and Spidey3).
LunarSol wrote: That's the source of Rick's nihilism after all.
Thus far the MCU has done a good job of making consequences stick. Even the snap was undone with some significant cost and the stones themselves never got as trivially powerful as they are in the comics.
I think key to that is the idea that pulling from another universe "costs" that universe, so we're not liking to see permanent refugees so much as just excuses to give people a chance to do stories that can be disconnected from the main MCU after a few projects that establish how it works (namely the loose trilogy of WV, Strange2, and Spidey3).
Best bit of Infinity War was ultimately removing the Infinity Stones going forward - and Thanos’ reasoning for doing so being pretty sound.
With Wandavision’s ending, I’m thinking we’ll see a conclusion to what’s going on before the end of the series, with at least an episode starting to explore the fallout.
I expect them to stick the landing. Everything post Ike and the council has been pretty amazing under Feige's supervision. It's not that he can't make mistakes. Just that he hasn't really so far.
Is that a Dr Strange costume? Could he be infiltrating? Or is it Wiccan’s outfit?
Kick Ass. Lol.
Could Hayward be Hydra?
Pietro seems to know an awful lot.
Is it Wanda doing all this? (Certainly seems so now!)
Is the shape significant in any way?
Arrrfg! I hate Clowns!
Interesting that perhaps Agnes isn’t all we thought, as she seems just as affected as everyone else. We also saw another character directly ask Wanda if she wanted to change anything.
Who is Monica off to meet? We now know they’re male.
The shape is just a clever play on the word “hex”. Forgot to mention that I really like that from last week.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also that shark advert in the middle was very...dark. I wonder if that’s a subconscious message from the townspeople (particularly the ones on the outskirts).
I noticed immediately that there were a ton of kids in this episode, which stuck out because Vision was very specific about us not having seen any so far - addressed succinctly by Quicksilver at the end too!
We're no closer to understanding why he looks different though.
Toublingly, there's clearly a limit to how much or how much activity Wanda can or is willing to exert to keep people moving around in the town - I think it's clear now she isn't just nudging people in the right direction, sending them off to their dentist appointment and letting the people trapped within fill in the gaps.
And she just added a whole bunch more people.
Vision isn't able to leave the hex the same way others have so far - is it due to the red aura around it now, or is it because the energy field is what's animating his body? He got ripped to pieces as he left, but that damage is not consistent with the damage he sustained in Endgame, or the state his corpse was in, disassembled at the major joints.
Once again we have one of Wanda's neighbors acting psuedo-aware that she has the ability to change things, again deferential - I don't think it's that they represent some unseen third party and more like these flashes of awareness from them are Wanda's subconscious awareness that she's doing this poking through.
Quicksilver is doing the same thing (for likely the same reasons) but is more unshackled compared to the other townsfolk either because of the origin of his powers or his past relationship with Wanda.
Also his speed effect is the Marvel one, where he's a big neon blur, rather than X-Men's preferred method of pop-music driven goofy montage.
Monica continues her steady march towards her Photon power set. Which means Aaron Stack is... out there... somewhere.
Possibly being bullied by superinteligent machines that watch over the cosmos.
Well, in the 90s Sitcoms kinda stagnated with not real big shakeups like Malcolm in The Middle did(The dropping of the Audience, the filming outside, the single camera)
So im glad we get this and maybe another 2000s+a 2010s
A little thing to notice, Wanda and Vision being horny reflected how horny the parent in malcolm in the middle where, which at the time was considered a bit of a taboo still
After S1:E6, I’m even more convinced that Pietro is actually Loki, possibly working his TVA role... He clearly isn’t the same Pietro that Wanda grew up with and he kept pushing Wanda for details of how “she did it”. Plus, he had the Loki-esque snark that led Wanda to blast him...
I guess they settled the question of whether or not Monica Rambeau is getting super powers.
I was surprised that Vision could do his “thing” on Agnes. Seemed like she was different, but she’s clearly under the effect of the Hex.
And Herb seemed to have a Agnes-like awareness that he’s “in a show”
Still loving the series and sucks that there are so few episodes left... So much goodness.
I noticed that too but I started trying to come up with a 90s family sitcom that didn't start airing in the 80s and transition through the awkward big-hair phase covered in episode 5, the only ones I could come up with were cartoons, involved talking dinosaur puppets, or were all black.
90s sitcoms were really preoccupied with witty single 20-somethings living in unrealistically big apartments.
Family sitcom set in the 90's. Could've even done a riff on the neighbour whose face is covered.
I like Home Improvement, but I don’t know that it would have been a great fit. Even though they had a family on the series, it was very much the Tim Allen show with his family playing a supporting role. I think it would have been a little lacking on the family side of things because of that. And a show about a show about show may have been just a little much!
With the episode also focusing heavily on the kids and their development, having a very kid focused show as the template worked well though.
Family sitcom set in the 90's. Could've even done a riff on the neighbour whose face is covered.
I like Home Improvement, but I don’t know that it would have been a great fit. Even though they had a family on the series, it was very much the Tim Allen show with his family playing a supporting role. I think it would have been a little lacking on the family side of things because of that. And a show about a show about show may have been just a little much!
With the episode also focusing heavily on the kids and their development, having a very kid focused show as the template worked well though.
Yeah go rewatch home improvement, and you realize no one has a story that isnt related to Tim.
Jill never had a story all to herself.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Wanda momentarily seeing Not-Pietro as a corpse, with the bullet holes from Age of Ultron, as she saw Visions corpse a few episodes back.
I'm sure it was just a mistake that they didn't show us what Darcy found in Hayward's files that she emailed off before getting absorbed into Westview.
Also Wanda didn't take Pietro's words well at the end of the episode when she blasted him. A bit of a violent outburst there at a family member, wouldn't you say?
So, I don't think they have the rights to be able to do this, but I could be wrong with the acquisition of Fox. But could it be...
Spoiler:
The Shadow King? He has a huge history of messing with Mutants. Especially the powerful psychic types. I know that isn't really Wanda in this case, but they could be making some changes...
Voss wrote: They should certainly have those rights at this point.
But... that's someone to save for more appropriate protagonists.
They could be setting him up as the next big bad. He is considered a Multiversal threat. Wanda is in the next Doctor Strange movie. That movie is the Multiverse of Madness. This phase could see the introduction of his most hated enemy as well.
The next question I have is are they going to abandon the "tv shows of the past" feel, as they are getting pretty close to current era, and just focus on the main plot that is really starting to take form. Especially with this last episode.
Voss wrote: They should certainly have those rights at this point.
But... that's someone to save for more appropriate protagonists.
They could be setting him up as the next big bad. He is considered a Multiversal threat. Wanda is in the next Doctor Strange movie. That movie is the Multiverse of Madness. This phase could see the introduction of his most hated enemy as well.
I though Dormammu was Strange's most hated enemy? Though the MCU version is like hating a rock.
Voss wrote: They should certainly have those rights at this point.
But... that's someone to save for more appropriate protagonists.
They could be setting him up as the next big bad. He is considered a Multiversal threat. Wanda is in the next Doctor Strange movie. That movie is the Multiverse of Madness. This phase could see the introduction of his most hated enemy as well.
I though Dormammu was Strange's most hated enemy? Though the MCU version is like hating a rock.
It is, I was meaning the Shadow King's most hated enemy.
Aaron Taylor-Johnson, who played Pietro in the MCU, was the star of Kick-@ss.
Evan Peters, who played Pietro in the Fox-verse, was the best friend in Kick-@ss.
They knew what they were doing when they wrote that line, but I don't know if they were just being cute, or if they were trying to plant some clue.
Also, when Vision breaks through to the real person beneath his co-worker Norm's fake identity, the co-worker never mentions Wanda's name, only "she." This makes me think that maybe someone else, like the Enchantress, is at work here in addition to Wanda.
One of the background characters' Hallowe'en costumes was Al from Home Improvement.
I think it had to be Malcolm in the Middle though for this week's.
I didn't realise though that the star of Malcolm in the Middle, Frankie Muniz, has absolutely no recollection of ever being in the series. He suffered a brain injury which means he doesn't remember any of it.....
I would be surprised if it was Nightmare. Not enough references to dreams. The trick with Mephisto is just to empathize that he’s not The actual Christian Devil.
We rewatched it and noticed some "mistakes" that slipped by us during our first viewing. They do seem like things that I think the producers would have caught though, so I am leaning towards thinking that they are intentional to hint at the slipping of control over what is happening.
The two main ones I can remember are:
- The kids playing on a flat screen TV in an early 2000s sitcom
- The movies showing as playing at the movie theater are The Parent Trap (released in 1998) and The Incredibles (released in 2004), so 6 years between them.
d-usa wrote: We rewatched it and noticed some "mistakes" that slipped by us during our first viewing. They do seem like things that I think the producers would have caught though, so I am leaning towards thinking that they are intentional to hint at the slipping of control over what is happening.
The two main ones I can remember are:
- The kids playing on a flat screen TV in an early 2000s sitcom
- The movies showing as playing at the movie theater are The Parent Trap (released in 1998) and The Incredibles (released in 2004), so 6 years between them.
Of course, the movies were certainly chosen because of their meaning and not by their date of release. Parent trap with the twins angle. And the superpowered family of The Incredibles.
d-usa wrote: We rewatched it and noticed some "mistakes" that slipped by us during our first viewing. They do seem like things that I think the producers would have caught though, so I am leaning towards thinking that they are intentional to hint at the slipping of control over what is happening.
The two main ones I can remember are:
- The kids playing on a flat screen TV in an early 2000s sitcom
- The movies showing as playing at the movie theater are The Parent Trap (released in 1998) and The Incredibles (released in 2004), so 6 years between them.
Well, the original Parent Trap was released in 1961. Possibly a reference to twins OR (this may be far-fetched...) they could be referencing something else that happened in 1961 AND that could relate to The Incredibles...
What if they're planting seeds about The Fantastic Four?
I remember hearing about a director listening to theories and such and laughing. he said "Yeah, your thery makes sense, but the reason its shot like this is because we only had this one actor for this one day"
Not to disparage theories, but its all likely that those where the two movies they had at the time.
Disney has a ridiculously huge library of films to freely draw on, even moreso with all of the Fox film library. There is no possible way that's all they had access to (and its too easy to fake, by hooking a TV up to a different input device hidden out of sight of the camera).
Hand crafting the sets is part of the point of this show. It can be easy to miss something passive (a style of phone, a specific model of fridge), but a background film is always going to be selected.
Voss wrote: Disney has a ridiculously huge library of films to freely draw on, even moreso with all of the Fox film library. There is no possible way that's all they had access to (and its too easy to fake, by hooking a TV up to a different input device hidden out of sight of the camera).
Hand crafting the sets is part of the point of this show. It can be easy to miss something passive (a style of phone, a specific model of fridge), but a background film is always going to be selected.
Spoiler:
We also heard Pietro say their parents would’ve liked Wanda’s fantasy world.
Now, that could be him stroking her ego, a suggestion as to “why sitcoms”, a bit of both, or even just a throwaway line. It’s not clear when they were orphaned, but with Age of Ultron released 11 years after The Incredibles, could those films be from happier times?
Or just a nod and a wink -Wanda has trapped Vision et al in her fantasy, and The Incredibles being about a super powered family, just like them.
Have seen a couple of news stories today suggesting that a Heroes For Hire series is in the works. Apparently Mike Colter is still in the running to reprise Luke Cage, but there's less of an appetite to get Finn Jones back as Danny.
Smells a bit wishlisty to me, but equally, given the critical and audience reception of IF, it seems quite plausible that they'd look to replace him if they were making a new series.
Mike Colter was great as Luke Cage, I'd be super down to see him come back. Finn Jones was... Eh. I definitely feel like he was the weakest of the bunch. I wouldn't hate it if he was back but I'd be fine with a recast as well
I can't blame the crappiness of Iron Fist on Finn Jones. The blame lies on the shoulders of Inhumans show-runner Scott Buck, who somehow failed upwards and got another show with Marvel TV, and ruined that too.
Azreal13 wrote: Have seen a couple of news stories today suggesting that a Heroes For Hire series is in the works.
*searches Google for 'Heroes for Hire'* *clicks 'News'* *first result is from We Got This Covered* *closes window*
When it's on Variety or THR, then we can pay attention to it. As it stands, were We Got This Covered to tell me that water is wet, I'd ask for a second opinion before believing them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I can't blame the crappiness of Iron Fist on Finn Jones. The blame lies on the shoulders of Inhumans show-runner Scott Buck, who somehow failed upwards and got another show with Marvel TV, and ruined that too.
Azreal13 wrote: Have seen a couple of news stories today suggesting that a Heroes For Hire series is in the works.
*searches Google for 'Heroes for Hire'*
*clicks 'News'*
*first result is from We Got This Covered*
*closes window*
When it's on Variety or THR, then we can pay attention to it. As it stands, were We Got This Covered to tell me that water is wet, I'd ask for a second opinion before believing them.
You’re not suggesting We Got This Covered is full of poop and about as accurate as an Orky sniper in a wind tunnel wearing a blindfold aiming at a 5p piece are you?
In the Yo Magic! commercial the kids says he is hungry and the shark appears and says that it used to be hungry too but not anymore. I'm pretty sure the shark is whatever is behind this and I don't recall Mephisto feeding off magic. My guess is that whatever this is has Wanda expending power to feed off the energy she is creating.
I'm with Alpharius in that I don't think Mephisto is going to be the culprit and for similar reasons.
princeyg wrote: Just been messing around on youtube aand apparently the next 3 episodes are all about an hour long!
Yeah don't bet on that yet.
People are making a big leap of logic here and acting like Kevin Feige confirmed 3 1-hour long episodes.
What Fiege actually said is that Wandavision is 6 hours long, and people are subtracting the runtime of the current episodes vs 6 hours to get 3x1 hour.
I’m in the “there are more episodes than they’re telling us” camp. Given that they seem to be structuring it in 3 episode arcs, it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a massive twist in episode 9 that then requires a final 3 to resolve.
That's really difficult to pull off. Show production is usually over long before a series airs, and post production involves a _lot_ of people. The number of episodes for a 'season' is usually fixed when its greenlit and rarely ever changes, because a change is a huge wave that hits thousands of schedules.
Keeping it a secret almost becomes an impossibility, just for the sheer number of mouths involved. (The full cast and crew credits is 47 pages of names (copy/paste the IMDB page into Word), and that's just people who are acknowledged as working on the show, and doesn't include their friends/family, other people in the various workplaces and etc.)
When Sherlock ended with a very bad finale, people thought that there must be this hidden secret 4th episode that actually makes the entire show good.
It kept changing dates and stuff, but those dates came and went with no good finale.
No spoilers this week. You’ll just have to watch and froth!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and there’s a mid-credits bit. Thought I’d share that, as I recall a few peeps missed the same at the end of Mando Season 2.
One thing I did like? And it’s a completely background thing....
Spoiler:
When Vision is catching up with Darcy (mmmm. Darcy) in the circus, there’s a boot/standee thing with “Trick The Guesser” (might’ve been fool the guesser). I’m thinking that was a definite nod and a wink to us the viewer. Or I’m reading too much into this, and am just a bawhair away from wearing a tinfoil hat and treating infowars as a credible source of information
There is one thing about this show I do want to complain about, and that’s the screen dimensions. It annoys me that to go back and forth from old and wide screen, they cut off the top and bottom. When they’re doing the sitcom thing and it’s old school squarer framing, leaving empty space on the sides, I’m ok with that, they’re emulating a style. But when they switch back to the real world instead of filling those to go wide frame, they cut off the top and bottom of the picture, so there’s just empty space all around it. It bugs me greatly.
Agatha Harkness is heavily involved with the Scrier. The Scrier is a cosmic being that has an interest in the Nexus of all Realities. Nexus, from the commercial. Where is this town at exactly? Any signs of Man-Thing?
AduroT wrote: But when they switch back to the real world instead of filling those to go wide frame, they cut off the top and bottom of the picture, so there’s just empty space all around it. It bugs me greatly.
The "real world" is the cinematic universe and that is a cinematic aspect ratio. It is a streaming show about television shows set within a movie.
Wanda is a/the Nexus being. Unlike, say, Pietro who we've seen exists in more than one form, she is a universal constant throughout the multiverse. This is almost certainly what it's hinting at.
AduroT wrote: But when they switch back to the real world instead of filling those to go wide frame, they cut off the top and bottom of the picture, so there’s just empty space all around it. It bugs me greatly.
The "real world" is the cinematic universe and that is a cinematic aspect ratio. It is a streaming show about television shows set within a movie.
Yes, but I would rather they used the cinematic ratio as the default, to fill the screen, and then chop off the sides when they go to the television ratio, instead of the cinematic ratio having so much wasted space.
The doors in Agatha's basement lead to multiverse versions of Westview. One door leads to the 50s, one to the 60s, 70s etc. Agatha is actually somehow using Wanda to contain it but as her hold over Wanda is slipping somehow the multiverse versions are becoming unstable.
It isn't Wanda's magic that is making objects phase in and out of eras, it's the whole town of Westview phasing in and out of multiverse versions of itself. The one thing remaining constant is Wanda? That's why Pietro was the Evan Peters version and appeared in the 80s/90s sitcom versions which is the era his character was in in the X-Men movies? This is just a speculation of where it's going and I'm not sure it works but somehow they obviously are going to explain the multiverse in preparation for the Dr Strange movie?
The square ratio (4:3) is narrower than widescreen TV, hence the bars down the side. The cinematic ratio is something like 2.39:1, wider than a widescreen TV (16:9 or 1.78:1), so you get empty screen along the top and bottom.
why the big drama around revealing that she's Scarlet Witch? Haven't we known that since the chracter first joined the MCU? Unless The Scarlet Witch is something new/different?
Second, didn't the SWORD director tell Rambeau that Wanda broke into SWORD and stole Vision's body? The replay of events in this episode is somewhat different (and much less provocative from Wanda).
As for the “wait, didn’t he say she nicked Vision?” thing. The last episode showed he was tracking Vision specifically, and had been telling porky pies.
Not sure if you clocked it, but there’s a mid credits scene for episode 8 which confirms Wanda didn’t pinch Visions bits and bobs.
Apologies this reads as “snorts, pushes glassed back up nose with index fingers”.
The Scarlet Witch is a title that is passed on much like Sorcerer Supreme, except this is a family thing. By naming her The Scarlet Witch, that means her Mother was as well. Which we did not know about before. The implication was the Mind stone gave her and her brother their powers. Turns out, that was a lie.
I think it's less of a lie and more of an incorrect assumption.
Spoiler:
The line of dialogue is something like 'if it were for your exposure to the mindstone amplifying your powers, your nascent abilities would have withered, dead on the vine.'
So I guess the mind stone acted like caffeine for magic.
Given the outline shown when she was subject to the stone, it could also be interpreted that a different version of herself kickstarted her powers perhaps
I'm curious what will happen with vision meets vision, and if we will see some kind of fusion or something so that he can exist outside the town/be available for future mcu projects
I would have liked a few minutes to see what happened with monica, unless they showed something and i overlooked it