A new weekly feature coming to Warhammer Community, as of 1 March 2021.
And they’ve kicked us off with a silhouette. Me, I reckon it’s another Vampire being shown off. Whatever it is, that’s one long handled sword right there!
Got to echo the thought that I find a weekly model reveal more appealing than the rumor engine as it is now. There's stuff like Belakor that you can see coming, but the majority simply lacks context to build any kind of anticipation. At least for me.
So I hope this is a feature that lasts.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Dreihander for Genestealer Cults, calling it now.
You know what would be neat? If the part of the silhouette that is inevitably hair that defies gravity was an elongated Genestealer* head with mouth tentacles looking to the sky in anticipation. Not the least because of the distinct lack of "visionary" poses in GW's model ranges.
* But since it's AoSGW's now just copying the DnD tentacle face dudes. But with three arms! Because AoS!
The problem with the rumour engine is when GW teases a lizard skin and lizardmen/seraphon players get all excited and it turns out to be a dead skin on a character in an entirely different army (once it was even a space marine).
I get that GW likes to tease like that, but its annoying. It sets up hopes and sometimes some of those rumour engines last for a LONG time before being revealed (even before Corona threw a spanner in the works).
Well, to be fair I think the hand on the scaly skin on the would-be-slambo guy in the chaos underworlds warband suggests it came from a saurus warrior, so that must count for something, right?
Geifer wrote: Got to echo the thought that I find a weekly model reveal more appealing than the rumor engine as it is now. There's stuff like Belakor that you can see coming, but the majority simply lacks context to build any kind of anticipation. At least for me.
So I hope this is a feature that lasts.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Dreihander for Genestealer Cults, calling it now.
You know what would be neat? If the part of the silhouette that is inevitably hair that defies gravity was an elongated Genestealer* head with mouth tentacles looking to the sky in anticipation. Not the least because of the distinct lack of "visionary" poses in GW's model ranges.
* But since it's AoSGW's now just copying the DnD tentacle face dudes. But with three arms! Because AoS!
Sounds like someone's jealous that AOS gets new races and factions :p
Yeah the rumour engine sometimes can be hit-or-miss with the teases. I'm not a fan of their more obtuse teases - The tease should hint towards the nature of the model in question IMO, showing us lizard skin would make everyone think the model itself is a lizard unless its obvious that its being worn as a skin or accessory/decor, etc. from the tease.
I think the Rumor Engine has its place, but it really needed to have a note as to what system the item was for. That would have helped manage expectations a lot...as would places like BoLS and Spikeybits not running effectively garbage "news" all the dang time.
rumor engine has it's place if it's resolved in like...two months, not a year or 6 months later. All tease with no payoff, and the customer will get bored
Ex-noble of Ulfenkarn, got beat up by Radukar, accidentally vamped and escaped in the laundry on a corpse cart by feeding on the rats feeding on the corpses. Might be part rat.
Now you know what you have to look forward to every Monday this month, let’s get on with today’s offering. Say “hello” to Kritza, the Rat Prince.
This well-dressed fellow hails from the Vyrgos Dynasty of Soulblight Vampires. As you can probably tell from his fancy attire, Kritza was once counted among the nobility of Ulfenkarn (which you can read about in our first Cursed City crier). Unfortunately, his attempts to secretly undermine the lord of the land led him to an ill fate, and he was horribly mauled by Radukar the Wolf.
Against all odds, Kritza escaped by heaving himself into a Corpse Cart and playing dead among the lifeless bodies it carried. He sustained his ravaged body by feasting upon the blood of the rats he found gnawing on the corpses stowed alongside him. Kritza soon discovered he’d unwittingly been granted the Blood Kiss by his ferocious assailant and was slowly evolving into one of the Soulblight.
You may have noticed the Rat Prince’s fabulous (or should that be verminous?) cloak and somewhat murine appearance. Well, it appears that his unorthodox transformation into a vampire had some unusual side-effects. In addition to being accompanied by his ‘vermintide’ of rats – both living and undead – Kritza can transform into a swarm of rodents to evade his foes.
GaroRobe wrote: DANG! I wanted my vampire to have that backstory. The whole feeding on rats=rat like.
Also, his rat belt insignia looks a lot like the Wolf of Cursed City.
Curious trend.
Classic vampires became animalistic and Half bats (Varghulfs)
Radhukar *the wolf* and his offspring looks like turning into wolves specially the big model one.
now we have a Rat prince that can command and transform into Rats..
Maybe the new dinasties are tunned to some animal/bestial side (new lhamia into cats, Blood Dragons into Dragon) will be a curious change.
Chopstick wrote: Game isn't out and we already have expansion...
Or it might be tied to the upcoming Death release.
Well I think they said in the last stream did say that was expansion coming soon after Cursed City so it could be this then. But as for the given background I assume that he Rat-Prince could be used in the AoS fairly easily.
And as for the model, I think it is somehow fabulous. Skaven zombies would be a hit with this guy.
Sounds like he wouldn't be particularly fond of Radukar, no? Unless there's something about the Blood Kiss that makes the convert adore their primogenitor? Considering we already count vampires, rats, and a guy who controls vermin among the core contents of Cursed City, I want to say this guy is a Vampire Hero.
The base makes me lean more towards him belonging to AoS proper though, with a WD article mission for WHQ. It's a bit of an awkward shape otherwise
I could see him being an expansion, just so they can justify overcharging for his model. His belt also ties in well to the Cursed City. Plus, toss in another rat swarm, or some bigger rats, and they can charge a hefty sum for him.
Though the Loonking is roughly similar and is $35, so I'm assuming if he is in AOS, he won't be less than that
SamusDrake wrote: That is a very nice model, and yes this is definitely more preferable to the Rumour Engine which I find annoying rather than enjoyable.
Bit of a shame this chap is most likely to be a Cursed City exclusive model as I would have it as a replacement for Strahd in Castle Ravenloft.
We have seen every single model in Cursed City, and he is not one of them.
We have seen every single model in Cursed City, and he is not one of them.
That would be very good news my friend, but he might also be for a follow up expansion. If memory serves correctly, The Dreaded Ambull was about two months after the core game?
Speculating further, you could be right if treated in a similar fashion to Obisidus Mallex; sold separately as a generic HQ lord character for the Soulblight faction.
SamusDrake wrote: That is a very nice model, and yes this is definitely more preferable to the Rumour Engine which I find annoying rather than enjoyable.
Bit of a shame this chap is most likely to be a Cursed City exclusive model as I would have it as a replacement for Strahd in Castle Ravenloft.
Gw will want to sell this as much as possible so will make aos rules anyway even if it comes first in cursed city expansion.
Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Gw will want to sell this as much as possible so will make aos rules anyway even if it comes first in cursed city expansion.
Good point but I was referring to a separate release for the model itself. Its a nice model but I'm not buying a £40 expansion for a game I won't be playing just to have it.
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endlesswaltz123 wrote: Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Agreed. I play 40K mostly out of nostalgia but AoS feels more modern and better supported.
Tim the Biovore wrote: The base makes me lean more towards him belonging to AoS proper though, with a WD article mission for WHQ. It's a bit of an awkward shape otherwise
Yes, all the Cursed City minis have black base rims, whereas Kritza’s is brown like regular AoS minis.
Was there a single mini in the Blackstone Fortress expansions shown with a regular 40k base, or were they all Blackstone Fortress style?
I‘m just trying to figure out what to do if he is released for AoS first - buy, or wait for a Cursed City expansion with him?
If he's released separately, then I doubt he'd get a dedicated Cursed City expansion. If anything, he'd get rules in White Dwarf. Maybe even as an ally?
It would be ok if he was in Cursed City, but I'd hope he'd come out with some more rats (the ones we've seen are great, but bigger ones would be a cool upgrade).
With FEC, don't the winged ones feed on dragons, and that's how they get wings? And with Cursed City, Radukar fought a wolf, and his "children" have wolf feet
Quasistellar wrote: Those rat tails coming out from under his cloak are. . . pretty gross, lol.
I like the concept. The execution... will be difficult to make it look good. I'd probably just cut them off and not worry about it (and not put him on an oval base... That annoys me)
Overall though, very nice model, and more depth of background than I'm used to at this point. 'Slowly evolving into a vampire' is an interesting take.
Skavamp? Vampskav? Skavpire? Vampven? Skavenpire? Vampskaven? Theres a Skaven joke in there somewhere I'm sure.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Shh, don't let legacy WHFB holdouts hear you say that, they get very touchy about anything that even implies positivity towards AoS.
chaos0xomega wrote: Skavamp? Vampskav? Skavpire? Vampven? Skavenpire? Vampskaven? Theres a Skaven joke in there somewhere I'm sure.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Shh, don't let legacy WHFB holdouts hear you say that, they get very touchy about anything that even implies positivity towards AoS.
Everyone was talking about Vampirates, we got VampiRATs! Something like that?
chaos0xomega wrote: Skavamp? Vampskav? Skavpire? Vampven? Skavenpire? Vampskaven? Theres a Skaven joke in there somewhere I'm sure.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Shh, don't let legacy WHFB holdouts hear you say that, they get very touchy about anything that even implies positivity towards AoS.
Everyone was talking about Vampirates, we got VampiRATs! Something like that?
chaos0xomega wrote: Skavamp? Vampskav? Skavpire? Vampven? Skavenpire? Vampskaven? Theres a Skaven joke in there somewhere I'm sure.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Shh, don't let legacy WHFB holdouts hear you say that, they get very touchy about anything that even implies positivity towards AoS.
Everyone was talking about Vampirates, we got VampiRATs! Something like that?
The flavor text references Cursed City, but mentioning Soulblight straight out (plus the base style) makes me think this guy is AoS but they're trying to tie it to Cursed City (perhaps with CC rules in WD).
Danny76 wrote: Yeah I just think with the soulBlight book it’s just convenient to get some cursed city mentions in there, and he will just be a character in there.
Every so often, someone in GW's marketing team vaguely remembers a class on cross-promotion. Or they've realized all the stuff they've been doing with Bandai, Wizards, and whoever also applies to their own games.
GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and nowhere is this shown to be more true than in their complete inability to cross-promote any licensed product.
Danny76 wrote: Yeah I just think with the soulBlight book it’s just convenient to get some cursed city mentions in there, and he will just be a character in there.
To be fair Sigvald's fluff in the Hedonites book has Underworlds references so...
From a background point of view, I'd rather see him as a Quest expansion than an AoS release - having a new character that's also linked to the "Cursed City" just makes the world feel very small. I'd also rather see more generic characters rather than yet more of those with predetermined names and backstories.
Then again, it's a nice model, so I'd rather see him released as an expensive character release than an even more expensive Quest expansion...
KidCthulhu wrote: The flavor text references Cursed City, but mentioning Soulblight straight out (plus the base style) makes me think this guy is AoS but they're trying to tie it to Cursed City (perhaps with CC rules in WD).
Incredible model none-the-less.
He could possibly be the extra character card you get with the Cursed City novel. He did flee the city so I could see him teaming up with the heroes to get revenge.
It's a fun model and interesting take on Vampires but I hate how he requires an oval base because of the cloak - just like Yvraine, Skagrott the Loonking and Belisarius Cawl.
Danny76 wrote: Yeah I just think with the soulBlight book it’s just convenient to get some cursed city mentions in there, and he will just be a character in there.
To be fair Sigvald's fluff in the Hedonites book has Underworlds references so...
Yeah exactly, hardly the first time it’s been done.
Personally at most he might be the novel tied bonus character thing, that is just a regular AoS purchase.
chaos0xomega wrote: Skavamp? Vampskav? Skavpire? Vampven? Skavenpire? Vampskaven? Theres a Skaven joke in there somewhere I'm sure.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Honestly, AoS and/or the games based in that setting get the best models from GW... 40k model pale in comparison to some of the releases of late for the other game system.
Shh, don't let legacy WHFB holdouts hear you say that, they get very touchy about anything that even implies positivity towards AoS.
Everyone was talking about Vampirates, we got VampiRATs! Something like that?
Personally I prefer NosfeRATu
We have a winner. Honestly, I was almost positive this guy was modeled after Orlok from Nosferatu. Get rid of his coat, and the long legs look like the count. Though when I googled it, he doesn't have long boots, etc. I'm surprised they didn't put the final nail in the coffin, and make him bald, like Mace-pire or Mannfred, but I'm sure a headswap will fix it.
So now we have batty vampires.
A wolf vampire.
And a NosfeRATu.
Any other vampire tropes they could wriggle into this faction? I think they've covered the majority of animals Dracula associated with. The Bella Lugosi movie had a vampire bee, so HINT HINT gw. And Renfield had his whole "fly, spider, cat" schtick. Maybe something with mirrors, though Hedonites have that covered
I’m pretty sure this guy is from AoS proper, not Cursed City, because of the base. The rim of his base is painted and is the exact same colour as the Vampire Lord with the bat hair that was leaked and then shown. The Cursed City models all have plain black base rims.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m pretty sure this guy is from AoS proper, not Cursed City, because of the base. The rim of his base is painted and is the exact same colour as the Vampire Lord with the bat hair that was leaked and then shown. The Cursed City models all have plain black base rims.
100%
He just has background well timed for CC. Just for even more narrative.
(And as mentioned, could always be the special extra character or something, at most).
His hair seems a little, wind tunnely to me. I can see where someone would like him, I'm not super fond of this one if I'm honest. I'm happy to see vampires getting some good love though.
GaroRobe wrote: So now we have batty vampires.
A wolf vampire.
And a NosfeRATu.
Any other vampire tropes they could wriggle into this faction? I think they've covered the majority of animals Dracula associated with. The Bella Lugosi movie had a vampire bee, so HINT HINT gw. And Renfield had his whole "fly, spider, cat" schtick. Maybe something with mirrors, though Hedonites have that covered
Transformation into mist or elemental dust comes up a few times in the novel from what I remember, allowing Dracula to be near-undetectable and slip through the smallest gaps. While it rarely looks good in model form in my view, I can see GW playing around with something like that - they've done a similar thing recently with the Warcry Dark Elves and their shadowy cloaks.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: From a background point of view, I'd rather see him as a Quest expansion than an AoS release - having a new character that's also linked to the "Cursed City" just makes the world feel very small. I'd also rather see more generic characters rather than yet more of those with predetermined names and backstories.
I'll agree with more generic characters over SCs, but I do think AoS desperately needs to be smaller. Give some common ground, a stake in something, the possibility for two or more characters to interact, have conflicts, shared goals or anything. When there are endless deserts, swamps and multiple planes between two aspects of the same plotline, they feel disjointed, disconnected and pointless.
Argive wrote: so is he like the rat piper vampire?
Would the rats obey him or a skaven?
since when are rats a vampire thing?
Since Dracula (the Bram Stoker novel)?
The titular character has some ability to control them, although unlike some other animals associated with him, he never transforms into a rat himself as far as I recall.
Stormonu wrote: Mists. We need a vampire of the mists so GW can do a swirly-gak base for them.
No.
Really no.
I don't want another Lumenith type release where they preview-bait sane and attractive models that seem to be great replacements for an Old World faction and then switch for swirly gak and absurdist nonsense.
They've picked a reasonable and great looking style, it needs to stick for the entire range.
Since long before they sparkled or listened to early 2000s club rave music.
Sparkly vapires needs to be purged from collective human memory/history because its dumb. Everyone knows that
There was a meme where there was a lovey dovery photo from twilight of the two main characters having a date under a tree and blade standing there in the background drawing his sword captioned "This is how twilight should have ended" I support that idea
Fair point about stokers dracula its been many years since I read it or watched classic dracula movie. The idea of vampirisim has evolved into many separate sub sections it seems hasnt it. From what I remember of stokers they were more demonic slithering things rather than mist or animals.
I can see how this design choice would reflect an aspect of that I suppose. I think im coming around to it. Just associating with bats/undead for so long i forgot there are other takes on vampirism.
Off topic but I really like Nosgoth LOK universe take on vampirism(Minus the interdimensional demon invasion...)
I read most of the way through Bram Stockers' Dracula, I really should get back and finish it. However from what I recall there's a lot more that is left unsaid about vampires and which is alluded too rather than outright described.
semi spoilers
[spoiler]
There's a lot on his mind control and influence and ability to corrupt and tempt a person. Which I feel is something a lot of more modern Vampire lore has drifted away from. It's sort of there in the background (and likely in spades in the "Romance Vampire" novel books).
After that when he originally approaches England its like the coming of a true demon; storms and bad weather and general a huge heralding that something isn't right and something dark is approaching. Though also things people could overlook as just freak weather.
There's certainly wolf/dog elements though I forget the specifics of the animal familiars
[/spoilers]
Well "modern" vampire has strayed far away from its roots. I don't recall any book or movie/tv-show that has Dracula styled vampires.
One novel I do remember was about a school teacher that becomes more and more paranoid about his students and becomes convinced that one of them is a vampire.
I blame Buffy for warping classical terryfying mind controlling devil things into something... Not so terryfing.
I think OG folklore viewed wild dogs/wolves/crows/bats and rats as a more sinister things than we do. I suppose it makes sense as those things were carrion feeders, spreaders of diseases and would generally be accompanying bad times like famin, plague or war.
Overread wrote: I read most of the way through Bram Stockers' Dracula, I really should get back and finish it. However from what I recall there's a lot more that is left unsaid about vampires and which is alluded too rather than outright described.
semi spoilers
[spoiler]
There's a lot on his mind control and influence and ability to corrupt and tempt a person. Which I feel is something a lot of more modern Vampire lore has drifted away from. It's sort of there in the background (and likely in spades in the "Romance Vampire" novel books).
After that when he originally approaches England its like the coming of a true demon; storms and bad weather and general a huge heralding that something isn't right and something dark is approaching. Though also things people could overlook as just freak weather.
There's certainly wolf/dog elements though I forget the specifics of the animal familiars
[/spoilers]
He could control wolves and bats, take on mist form and become a kind of..werewolf/bat monstrosity. I believe he could also take on the form of a swarm of rats as well. Which iis probably the inspiration for the rat king here.
There's actually a very good book called "My swordhand is singing" by Marcus Sedgwick which goes into the real classical eastern european vampires. Can't enter a house without being invited, obsession with counting etc.
I think there are some episodes of the Varney the Vampire series (1840s/50s I think) involved rats and it goes back in European folklore, probably spurred on by the Black Death when vampire legends really kicked up a gear. The focus was on spreading plague rather than bloodsucking (see the neuntöter from Germany who is rather like a Death Guard Poxwalker).
I was just reading up on the Strigoi in Warhammer (because I am rewatching The Strain, lol) and in Warhammer Wiki it states that rats, cockroaches and bats flock to the undead purely because they are decaying, and that's generally where you would find carrion creatures.
Strigoi in original Romanian mythology also used to turn into rats (as well as wolves etc).
Obviously this new character isn't of the Strigoi line but I guess it does fit the Vampire theme.
New model Monday is lasting only for March, and one of those weeks is something that isn't *new* in the sense that we knew it was coming and has already been previewed in part...
Dang, he's a big one. I hope he has the option for a dead chaos space marine on his base, that can be swapped out with the dead warrior of chaos. Be'lakor is still part of 40k, as far as I know
Since long before they sparkled or listened to early 2000s club rave music.
The oldest vampire film, Nosferatu (1922), the vampire is heavily focused around rats. They're in his coffins, his fangs are like a rodent's, he spreads plague as he travels, etc. (also, this film was the reason vampires die in sunlight. Dracula was only weakened by it. Orlok died to it, since they wanted to change the plot to avoid being sued for plagiarism)
Even Dracula (novel) had rats feature a lot. He could summon them, and used them to chase after the people hunting down his coffins.
The modern vampire we know of originated around the release of Dracula, which was still heavily inspired by Varney the Vampire, like the bite marks on the neck, etc.
Serious question btw, how do you think he should be transported to a game? With wingspan this large, and presumably base to match, he won't fit any existing miniature case/box that I know? Just cradle him like a baby?
GoatboyBeta wrote: I don't imagine he will be any worse to transport than the winged greater demons or the 40k demon Primachs.
Frankly looks easier than the bloodthirster. Roughly the same size, but at least he's solidly on the base rather trying to do a crane stance on a flame spurt.
Tim the Biovore wrote: Bloody hell, I'm still recovering from Slaanesh. Between Cursed City and Be'lakor, my wallet is going to be sore for a while.
Well teclis is april, be'lakor may earliest.
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Cronch wrote: Serious question btw, how do you think he should be transported to a game? With wingspan this large, and presumably base to match, he won't fit any existing miniature case/box that I know? Just cradle him like a baby?
I’ve entirely missed that tidbit. Can anyone point me to the source?*
*always worried about asking these, as a genuine question can easily come across as a condescending, gatekeepery “citation pls”
It’s something about him possessing the guy who sire’d him.
Ah. That's more akin to pushing a bull into the same pen as a cow than actually being the father.
Still creepy in a Wonder Woman 1984 sort of way, but not a D&D 'badtouched' half-breed sort of way.
Magnets to what, baking tray and just carry him into the shop like your fanciest entree at the king's feast?
Magnets so you can separate the model into smaller portions and transport the individual parts rather than the full wingspan. I have seen people doing similar things with knights and other larger models to avoid breaking stuff.
Magnets to what, baking tray and just carry him into the shop like your fanciest entree at the king's feast?
I have varioust plastic containers(depending on size of model). Metal sheet to bottom. Done.
Model carried around without touching others. Essentially in same way they lie on table. No scratching, no bumping to other models. Sufficient strong magnet and even heavy metal model(think warjack from warmachine) will lie upside down happily without budge. Plastic is obviously easier
I’ve entirely missed that tidbit. Can anyone point me to the source?*
*always worried about asking these, as a genuine question can easily come across as a condescending, gatekeepery “citation pls”
It’s something about him possessing the guy who sire’d him.
Ah. That's more akin to pushing a bull into the same pen as a cow than actually being the father.
Still creepy in a Wonder Woman 1984 sort of way, but not a D&D 'badtouched' half-breed sort of way.
I agree.
It’s only the last few days on here I keep seeing people say that was his father.
His dad was a follower of chaos who took a woman of the empire to bed against her will basically.
More importantly the Be’lakor-Archaon relationship is he’s the one who was there when he ascended to Everchosen and all of that side of things.
Voss wrote: Well, that was Be'lakor's punishment, wasn't it? He had to crown all the Everchosen candidates that came after him.
This. Be'lakor wasn't crowning the candidates out of pride - it was a punishment. It was to shame him. He failed, they will succeed. Hard to read that as a father-son relationship or imagine he's remotely proud of it. If anything, iirc in the Storm of Chaos fluff onward Be'lakor LOATHED having to do this. He wanted power himself, not to be bestowing it to others.
Gotta say, not super enthused about what ever it is coming off his sword. If it's fire, then it's the worst attempt at flames ever. If the blade is in a state of chaotic flux, then that's also not super great either, as I don't feel that it matches Be'lakors general aesthetic.
And from that video preview they showed, it doesn't even look like he's taking on aspects of all 4 chaos gods. So if they have some Tzeentch warpery on the sword, that's going to look pretty off.
It's not fire. Look at the posted trailer a few posts up. It's like dark energy coming off of it.
EDIT:Does Be'lakor take on aspects for all 4 Chaos Gods? I can't say that ever came across in his original miniature, or any of the artwork. He's mostly all dark and shadowy, a true unaligned Daemon.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's not fire. Look at the posted trailer a few posts up. It's like dark energy coming off of it.
EDIT:Does Be'lakor take on aspects for all 4 Chaos Gods? I can't say that ever came across in his original miniature, or any of the artwork. He's mostly all dark and shadowy, a true unaligned Daemon.
Does unaligned even exist in any fashion in any GW product anymore? I used to play that in 40k but it went the way of the dodo unfortunately there. I wouldn't be surprised if he had design aspects of all four modelled onto him (hopefully not divided up into silly quadrants/limbs one for each).
Unaligned, yes. "Chaos Undivided", that's a different story.
Had it drilled into me during my Black Crusade days that we weren't allowed to capitalise the 'U' in 'unaligned' as GW were de-emphasising the power of "Chaos Undivided".
Voss wrote: Well, that was Be'lakor's punishment, wasn't it? He had to crown all the Everchosen candidates that came after him.
This. Be'lakor wasn't crowning the candidates out of pride - it was a punishment. It was to shame him. He failed, they will succeed. Hard to read that as a father-son relationship or imagine he's remotely proud of it. If anything, iirc in the Storm of Chaos fluff onward Be'lakor LOATHED having to do this. He wanted power himself, not to be bestowing it to others.
I should have been more clear with my original comment, but it was 100% a joke and I was in no way serious about Be'lakor being anyway happy about having to crown Archaon (or any other person, for that matter).
Snrub wrote:Gotta say, not super enthused about what ever it is coming off his sword. If it's fire, then it's the worst attempt at flames ever. If the blade is in a state of chaotic flux, then that's also not super great either, as I don't feel that it matches Be'lakors general aesthetic.
And from that video preview they showed, it doesn't even look like he's taking on aspects of all 4 chaos gods. So if they have some Tzeentch warpery on the sword, that's going to look pretty off.
It looks more like they're trying to make his sword look daemonicly ethereal or something. Dark energy, as H.B.M.C says.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Unaligned, yes. "Chaos Undivided", that's a different story.
Had it drilled into me during my Black Crusade days that we weren't allowed to capitalise the 'U' in 'unaligned' as GW were de-emphasising the power of "Chaos Undivided".
Well that certainly explains the direction they've been taking with the last few CSM codexes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's not fire. Look at the posted trailer a few posts up. It's like dark energy coming off of it.
Ya know I watched the trailer and I either I didnt see the sword bit or my brain glossed over it.
Ok thats not too bad then. Certainly looks better then what the teaser pic makes it look.
EDIT:Does Be'lakor take on aspects for all 4 Chaos Gods? I can't say that ever came across in his original miniature, or any of the artwork. He's mostly all dark and shadowy, a true unaligned Daemon.
No, I dont think he ever has had aspects of the gods incorporated into him, lore wise (certainly not model wise), but I wouldnt have been shocked if they had have went in that direction with this version.
Yeah, the current 40k Daemon codex is very weird about it. Everything has an allegiance to one of the big four, some things like Princes, Furies and Soulgrinders can choose, but they _must_ choose.
...except Be'lakor, who is actually written into the <Allegiance> rule as an exception. Giving him one (or all) would be really very strange.
The quirk of it is, he doesn't get anything. He isn't Unaligned, or Undivided. He just... doesn't have an allegiance. He does, however, have a universal buff (reroll 1s) for _all_ friendly daemons.
His statline is also utterly inadequate for the new model.
MajorWesJanson wrote: All the greater daemon statlines were smaller before their new larger models came out. I expect belakor to get updated rules to match his new stature.
How big are we thinking? Size of a Bloodthirster, size of a Wraithlord?
MajorWesJanson wrote: All the greater daemon statlines were smaller before their new larger models came out. I expect belakor to get updated rules to match his new stature.
How big are we thinking? Size of a Bloodthirster, size of a Wraithlord?
Ha ha, you said tail, so I was just looking through unsolved, and saw that little vargheist harpy sized one.
With the wing membrane piece that everyone kept saying was a tail.
Thought you meant that..
EDIT:Does Be'lakor take on aspects for all 4 Chaos Gods? I can't say that ever came across in his original miniature, or any of the artwork. He's mostly all dark and shadowy, a true unaligned Daemon.
No, I dont think he ever has had aspects of the gods incorporated into him, lore wise (certainly not model wise), but I wouldnt have been shocked if they had have went in that direction with this version.
Would be weird considering his entire lore is his utter spite for the gods because of his lot in life and attempting to ascend to godhood himself since his introduction in Mordheim.
It's important to remember that whilst the 4, no 5 Chaos Gods define huge regions of Chaos, they are not all there is to Chaos itself. They are simply demons who are the most powerful within the realm and who interact with the mortal world.
There have been other Gods of Chaos who have dwindled into nothing in the past; new gods that arise (Slaanesh arose, the Great Horned Rat is also now a Chaos God) and a whole host of neutral demons and creatures that owe no allegiance to the core 4 gods.
Indeed I'd be interested to learn how the Great Horned Rat now exists and interacts within the Chaos Realm. From other stories we know that Skaven do not die and to to the Chaos Realm itself, they die and go to the Realm of the Dead where they've their own afterlife (which is one of the few that is holding out and resisting Nagash).
Overread wrote: It's important to remember that whilst the 4, no 5 Chaos Gods define huge regions of Chaos, they are not all there is to Chaos itself. They are simply demons who are the most powerful within the realm and who interact with the mortal world.
There have been other Gods of Chaos who have dwindled into nothing in the past; new gods that arise (Slaanesh arose, the Great Horned Rat is also now a Chaos God) and a whole host of neutral demons and creatures that owe no allegiance to the core 4 gods.
In the Shadespire novel, whatever place the city is trapped, the inhabitants can see "gods" in the sky above them. Things described as older than the chaos gods, who no longer care what mortals do. More chaos goodness is never a bad thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dysartes wrote: If the Great Horned Rat is now a fully-fledged Chaos God in AoS, has there been any sign of anyone other than Skaven worshiping him?
In the same novel, a blood reaver accuses an unaligned chaos warrior as possibly following the Great Horned Rat, so it's possible. The dude in question wasn't a follower, however.
Yes, All Hail the Great Wolf who is laying down on the base with Bel'Akor standing on him. Obviously he is just trying to lull him into a false sense of security.
GaroRobe wrote: Belakor was introduced in Mordheim? Guess it's fitting that he gets a new model when AOS:Mordheim debuts.
Is he going to be changed to some rocks? It certainly looks that way. Cool for a diorama pose, but weird choice for a mobile model to be tied down.
He most certainly was introduced in Mordheim fluff as the Shadowlord in 1999 though no one knew of Be'lakor at the time or what he was or represented. He then cropped up a few years later in the Dark Shadows WFB campaign, again as a background antagonist - The Dark Master. He was only really revealed and fully fleshed out during the now non-canon Storm of Chaos campaign.
Belakor is the ultimate chump. He exists only to get dunked on by others. All Daemons tend to suffer this fate since they can't actually die which makes them very appealing targets to show how powerful some other character is, but Belakor is the chumpiest Daemon of them all.
yukishiro1 wrote: Belakor is the ultimate chump. He exists only to get dunked on by others. All Daemons tend to suffer this fate since they can't actually die which makes them very appealing targets to show how powerful some other character is, but Belakor is the chumpiest Daemon of them all.
Dunno, given none of the four gods can control him, and he can do more or less whatever he wants? That’s no chump.
GaroRobe wrote: Belakor was introduced in Mordheim? Guess it's fitting that he gets a new model when AOS:Mordheim debuts.
Is he going to be changed to some rocks? It certainly looks that way. Cool for a diorama pose, but weird choice for a mobile model to be tied down.
He most certainly was introduced in Mordheim fluff as the Shadowlord in 1999 though no one knew of Be'lakor at the time or what he was or represented. He then cropped up a few years later in the Dark Shadows WFB campaign, again as a background antagonist - The Dark Master. He was only really revealed and fully fleshed out during the now non-canon Storm of Chaos campaign.
Mordheim's "Shadowlord" did later become Be'lakor, or Be'lakor was made out to have been the same character who was the Shadowlord, but this was not actually Tuomas Pirinen's original plan. Whether or not the concept for Be'lakor even existed in the studio at this time, the Shadowlord was a completely independent character with different motivations and goals (though it has thus far not be fully revealed what they are). So, in current canon Be'lakor was retroactively introduced in Mordheim, but at the time, he neither was Be'lakor nor intended to become him, of that makes any sense.
-------------------
EDIT: and in the meantime, the model was shown!
Certainly like it, but don't love it. The wing-chain-decorations add some extra bling (quite literally), but the chain laundry lines don't quite do it for me. Nice touches on different versions though (laurels v crown, bionics and markings on the 40k skulls etc.). Bright Chaos star on his chest and extra mouth glow looks poor though, thankfully the fantasy version looks better. Unnecessary decorative base perhaps acceptable for a big display model, and not much work needed to get him standing on a normal flat base presumably. Optional left arm is nice enough, wished they had included a non-flaming sword too though. Not perfect, but still one of my favourite larger models they've done in recent times.
I like the little details in the trophies on his wings. There are 40k versions, one skull with an ocular implant and one Primaris head. And there is one that looks like it could be a Marine skull with one of those metal bolts in it.
New Belakor is OK, the old one is superior in my opinion- the overall design is just not as busy and somehow he looked more mencaing in smaller scale, can`t really point my finger on to why.
Glad I snatched the old mini while I could, so I don`t have the same gnawing feeling I still have, because I missed the green knight and the old slaanesh champion on foot.
I absolutely hate the new sword, those effect don`t work for me. They look as if the the new vampire hairstyle designer has rummaged through CAD files of Belakor to find a spot to add his signature touch.
GaroRobe wrote: Belakor was introduced in Mordheim? Guess it's fitting that he gets a new model when AOS:Mordheim debuts.
Is he going to be changed to some rocks? It certainly looks that way. Cool for a diorama pose, but weird choice for a mobile model to be tied down.
He most certainly was introduced in Mordheim fluff as the Shadowlord in 1999 though no one knew of Be'lakor at the time or what he was or represented. He then cropped up a few years later in the Dark Shadows WFB campaign, again as a background antagonist - The Dark Master. He was only really revealed and fully fleshed out during the now non-canon Storm of Chaos campaign.
Mordheim's "Shadowlord" did later become Be'lakor, or Be'lakor was made out to have been the same character who was the Shadowlord, but this was not actually Tuomas Pirinen's original plan. Whether or not the concept for Be'lakor even existed in the studio at this time, the Shadowlord was a completely independent character with different motivations and goals (though it has thus far not be fully revealed what they are). So, in current canon Be'lakor was retroactively introduced in Mordheim, but at the time, he neither was Be'lakor nor intended to become him, of that makes any sense.
Yeah, he's basically the other half of Nagash (conceptually, not literally), after they chopped up Drachenfels. Nagash got the great necromancer aspect and Be'lakor got the first chaos champion background. That two vague shadowy figures turned out to be Be'lakor totes in disguise is just easy writing. comic book style retcon at its simplest
----
Anyway, nice model, some excessive scenic base. Dreadful book cover.
Might make for a great bloodthirster in a decent pose with some leftover bits. Shame no real information attached to the pictures.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So looks like AoS and 40k have shared custody after all. Groovy.
I do hope there is a setting neutral option. They did a good job of offering different rocks rather than the dead necron on the indomitus captain, hopefully something similar can be slotted in.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So looks like AoS and 40k have shared custody after all. Groovy.
I do hope there is a setting neutral option. They did a good job of offering different rocks rather than the dead necron on the indomitus captain, hopefully something similar can be slotted in.
Since both dead guys can be used, I'd guess it wouldn't be a problem to just not use either one. Unless there's a specific slot on the base for them. Be nice to see the sprues.
Edit: Dead guys optional confirmed by Mad Doc Grotsnik.
He looks..well, just as we expected really, he's been teased enough. Not bad, but a bit unwieldy both on the table and to move (especially if you use public transport)
I always liked the old Be'lakor model and this new one is very nice too. Honestly, I'm more excited that they said the M word, especially with the new WH Quest game coming. Thought we'd never hear it spoken again.
The Power Cosmic wrote: I always liked the old Be'lakor model and this new one is very nice too. Honestly, I'm more excited that they said the M word, especially with the new WH Quest game coming. Thought we'd never hear it spoken again.
They said the M word??? I gotta go re-read this article
GaroRobe wrote: Belakor was introduced in Mordheim? Guess it's fitting that he gets a new model when AOS:Mordheim debuts.
Is he going to be changed to some rocks? It certainly looks that way. Cool for a diorama pose, but weird choice for a mobile model to be tied down.
He most certainly was introduced in Mordheim fluff as the Shadowlord in 1999 though no one knew of Be'lakor at the time or what he was or represented. He then cropped up a few years later in the Dark Shadows WFB campaign, again as a background antagonist - The Dark Master. He was only really revealed and fully fleshed out during the now non-canon Storm of Chaos campaign.
Mordheim's "Shadowlord" did later become Be'lakor, or Be'lakor was made out to have been the same character who was the Shadowlord, but this was not actually Tuomas Pirinen's original plan. Whether or not the concept for Be'lakor even existed in the studio at this time, the Shadowlord was a completely independent character with different motivations and goals (though it has thus far not be fully revealed what they are). So, in current canon Be'lakor was retroactively introduced in Mordheim, but at the time, he neither was Be'lakor nor intended to become him, of that makes any sense.
-------------------
EDIT: and in the meantime, the model was shown!
Certainly like it, but don't love it. The wing-chain-decorations add some extra bling (quite literally), but the chain laundry lines don't quite do it for me. Nice touches on different versions though (laurels v crown, bionics and markings on the 40k skulls etc.). Bright Chaos star on his chest and extra mouth glow looks poor though, thankfully the fantasy version looks better. Unnecessary decorative base perhaps acceptable for a big display model, and not much work needed to get him standing on a normal flat base presumably. Optional left arm is nice enough, wished they had included a non-flaming sword too though. Not perfect, but still one of my favourite larger models they've done in recent times.
Where’s the optional left hand?
I’m just seeing the same one positioned lower right?
I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
For example Bloodthirster is said to be about 10 metres tall so his model should be huge. Same with the others.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
they want them to be major centerpieces...
it also helps attract people to it cause they look cooler.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
For example Bloodthirster is said to be about 10 metres tall so his model should be huge. Same with the others.
Ten metres? Sounds like gibberish and I’ve been in and out of 40k lore since at least 2001.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
For example Bloodthirster is said to be about 10 metres tall so his model should be huge. Same with the others.
Ten metres? Sounds like gibberish and I’ve been in and out of 40k lore since at least 2001.
Great Demons have always been massive in the fluff. Just look at the old artwork of the war agaisnt chaos of High Elves in fantasy. Or stuff like videogame cinematics with the Age of Reckoning Lord of Change, Mark of Chaos Bloodthirster, etc...
Their miniatures were pathetically small just by limitations of the age when they were designed and made.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
Be'lakor, the first Daemon Prince who all four gods poured power into, is now just an 'ordinary' Daemon Prince?
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
For example Bloodthirster is said to be about 10 metres tall so his model should be huge. Same with the others.
Ten metres? Sounds like gibberish and I’ve been in and out of 40k lore since at least 2001.
Great Demons have always been massive in the fluff. Just look at the old artwork of the war agaisnt chaos of High Elves in fantasy. Or stuff like videogame cinematics with the Age of Reckoning Lord of Change, Mark of Chaos Bloodthirster, etc...
Their miniatures were pathetically small just by limitations of the age when they were designed and made.
There’s a big difference between “dreadnought sized is a tad small” and “takes up as much space with wingspan factored in as an imperial knight”.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
Be'lakor, the first Daemon Prince who all four gods poured power into, is now just an 'ordinary' Daemon Prince?
Yes? Undivided being super special rather than the default is a pretty new development.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
For example Bloodthirster is said to be about 10 metres tall so his model should be huge. Same with the others.
Ten metres? Sounds like gibberish and I’ve been in and out of 40k lore since at least 2001.
Great Demons have always been massive in the fluff. Just look at the old artwork of the war agaisnt chaos of High Elves in fantasy. Or stuff like videogame cinematics with the Age of Reckoning Lord of Change, Mark of Chaos Bloodthirster, etc...
Their miniatures were pathetically small just by limitations of the age when they were designed and made.
Yeah, weren't the old Epic greater daemons and daemon primarchs about the size of an Imperial Knight?
No GW games are really 'scale' games, but I don't see how this sizing is unreasonable.
GaroRobe wrote: Belakor was introduced in Mordheim? Guess it's fitting that he gets a new model when AOS:Mordheim debuts.
Is he going to be changed to some rocks? It certainly looks that way. Cool for a diorama pose, but weird choice for a mobile model to be tied down.
He most certainly was introduced in Mordheim fluff as the Shadowlord in 1999 though no one knew of Be'lakor at the time or what he was or represented. He then cropped up a few years later in the Dark Shadows WFB campaign, again as a background antagonist - The Dark Master. He was only really revealed and fully fleshed out during the now non-canon Storm of Chaos campaign.
Mordheim's "Shadowlord" did later become Be'lakor, or Be'lakor was made out to have been the same character who was the Shadowlord, but this was not actually Tuomas Pirinen's original plan. Whether or not the concept for Be'lakor even existed in the studio at this time, the Shadowlord was a completely independent character with different motivations and goals (though it has thus far not be fully revealed what they are). So, in current canon Be'lakor was retroactively introduced in Mordheim, but at the time, he neither was Be'lakor nor intended to become him, of that makes any sense.
.
That's very common for gw. Random names and notes which are there to make fluff appear deeper and more pre-planned than it is actually. Lots of stuff like that which players are wondering what gw is planning while gw guys haven't thought at all what to make out of it then in future some random hint from past might become actually useful
You say that like it's a bad thing? That kind of passive, fill-in-the-gaps worldbuilding is great, much better for a game setting than anything too fixed and prescriptive
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
For example Bloodthirster is said to be about 10 metres tall so his model should be huge. Same with the others.
Ten metres? Sounds like gibberish and I’ve been in and out of 40k lore since at least 2001.
Greater demons were always massive, it's just making massive models in plastic is way easier than metal so now the model can match the lore. I'm not a fan of making the models quite so..snappably expansive, but they are accurate to lore.
Dysartes wrote: If the Great Horned Rat is now a fully-fledged Chaos God in AoS, has there been any sign of anyone other than Skaven worshiping him?
Its rare - even in the Old World there were humans who worshipped him hoping for mercy - which only proved they did not understand the god they were plendging themselves too. It has no mercy for the Skaven never mind other races!
Agree with those saying its probably a nightmare to transport and to a degree, looks a bit silly due to its sheer scale compared with anything else. But hey, go big or go home.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
He's not quite an "ordinary" Daemon Prince since he is The First Ever Daemon Prince so it makes sense he could be primarch-stature.
Agree with those saying its probably a nightmare to transport and to a degree, looks a bit silly due to its sheer scale compared with anything else. But hey, go big or go home.
Well, in terms of scale compared to anything else, the video has him next to a Lord of Change and Bloodthirster. He fits right in:
https://youtu.be/CLW4Kk0fKao?t=20
What exactly is his base supposed to be? It looks like a small set of steps leading...nowhere? At first I thought it was some sort of altar but it doesn't seem to have a sacrificial stone.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: He kinda looks more dragonesque than Daemon in a way. I really like it.
Well, he would, wouldn’t he?
He was the first mortal to become the Everchosen, long before the arrival of the Old Ones and the Slann, which means he’s a native of the planet, which means either Dragon Ogre or pure Dragon. And we know what happens with dragon ogres so…
Great model, I will most certainly get me one.
I think Bloodthirsters are good size as the smallest of the greater daemons, and Belakor actually looks about the same size.
Heres hoping Belakor at least give the 40k daemons some kind of loop hole to not be depressingly awful.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
Scale creep:
They do it in order to invalidate older models of the same type. So if you want to use older stuff in a GW shop or tournament you are screwed.
changemod wrote: I really don’t understand why they’re making greater daemons, daemon primarchs, and now finally ordinary daemon princes basically imperial knight sized. It creates a vast size gulf between them and not only mortals, but lesser daemons too.
Scale creep:
They do it in order to invalidate older models of the same type. So if you want to use older stuff in a GW shop or tournament you are screwed.
Well that's due to plavers themselves. Funny. Players to blame, players blame gw.
Dysartes wrote: If the Great Horned Rat is now a fully-fledged Chaos God in AoS, has there been any sign of anyone other than Skaven worshiping him?
Not really no and honestly he doesn't need it. He's got countless Skaven who worship him and have done for generations. So the Great Horned Rat has no need to sully himself by reaching out to mankind or aelves.
Lovely model, would be even better with a force of undivided demons to lead. Guess he will have to make do with the god aligned ones in a matching colour scheme
GoatboyBeta wrote: Lovely model, would be even better with a force of undivided demons to lead. Guess he will have to make do with the god aligned ones in a matching colour scheme
In AoS there is a force of mixed daemons and he has his own sub faction within it, which actually isn't bad and is quite viable so long as you have him as part of the list.
Very, very impressed. And the optional chains for 40k vs AOS are nice (though I wish it was a grey knight helmet, and not another primars one.)
Wonder why they decided to do a chaos warrior and a primaris lieutenant, instead of doing a dead chaos warrior and CSM, or a dead stormcast and lieutenant?
I really like that he has enough bits to make him clearly AOS or 40k.
Ignoring the corpses (and wings), there's a bunch more stuff sprinkled around the base. There's a bolter, what looks like a salamander helmet. And an imperial fist shoulder pad and something else behind him.
And with AOS, some skull piles with crowns.
Unless they reveal that he's also part of a huge and varied demon prince set - then I'd wager his price will be higher because as a character GW can expect to sell him once to any customer. With the regular Greater Demons they've a regular form and a named character form so they can hope for 2 sales per customer and perhaps more - heck for Keepers they might hope for 3 or 4 sales per customer with the way the old Battletomes was setup.
That makes a big difference to projected sales of the model and might have a big impact on prices.
The only saving grace is that the price on Gargants caused a bit of a wobble and I think, going by how the community reacted to the price, that GW might not price anything that high for a long while yet. Unless its seriously massivehugemonster.
Overread wrote: Unless they reveal that he's also part of a huge and varied demon prince set - then I'd wager his price will be higher because as a character GW can expect to sell him once to any customer. With the regular Greater Demons they've a regular form and a named character form so they can hope for 2 sales per customer and perhaps more
Except Bloodthirsters... Skabrand is a unique sprue (legs/arms/wings, which replaces the standard sprue in the BT kit) coupled with the BT body sprue. He's also a 'one buy' (if at all).
I hope his rules are drastically improved. At the moment he can't be placed into a mono-god daemon detachment without ruining the locus, has no distinct forces of his own in 40k, and can't be summoned, making it almost impossible to use him in any effective capacity.
It's hard to tell what GW will do. The Void Dragon kit cost waaay more than I expected. But Sigvald cost less than Guilliman, despite prices steadily rising on newer models. Still, if he's like a greater daemon, than probably 140 USD. Daemon Primarchs costs $10 more, but it's hard to say if GW will consider him on that tier.
Dysartes wrote: If the Great Horned Rat is now a fully-fledged Chaos God in AoS, has there been any sign of anyone other than Skaven worshiping him?
Not really no and honestly he doesn't need it. He's got countless Skaven who worship him and have done for generations. So the Great Horned Rat has no need to sully himself by reaching out to mankind or aelves.
Their is the whole Cawdor Gang from Necromunda who have rats and rat bombs, so maybe. Plus they could always redo the Ratskins to be were-rats or humans who worship rats to the point they are "Blessed" with mutations.
Boy is new Be'lkor too much. Yikes. And those silly open-winged poses, just begging to be torn to shreds by lascannons..... The sculptors have gone out of control with ZBrush.
Stunning model, glad they didn’t ruin this one.
My bet is £85-100 on this one.
AoS players talking about a daemon army, but wasn’t belakor always leading mortals?
Pretty certain that he despised daemons and used to lead mortals in to battle instead.
I would almost certainly expect that in 40k, he will be a Supreme Commander LOW for Chaos Daemons Undivided.
Not sure quite how they'll represent the Undivided; a good litmus test will be how they handle DE Raiding force updates; both armies were similar in requiring players to isolate the sub-factions of their lists into separate detachments. We know that the new dex will provide an alternative to this system for the DE.
Whatever that alternative ends up being, it may also apply to Chaos Daemon armies that have Be'lakor as Supreme Commander.
I think the AoS demon army thing is coming from the promotional video of him leading a demon army of demons. Also don't forget it wasn't that long ago that in AoS (or rather Old World) Chaos Demons were a single army and I'm sure there are those who would welcome those times back.
Personally I sort of feel that the separation in AoS is pretty strong now. Allies and such work, but I don't really want to see united Chaos Demons return. I think each army is stronger having its own toolbox of options. And I say that as someone who wishes Khorne and Slaanesh could ally so I can have fiends and hounds in the same army.
I think if they recombine that will dash hopes of new demon models. 2 Big updates to Slaanesh and not a single new demonic unit. A few leaders yes, but no core troop or monster. Even the mindestealer cat is a Slaves to Darkness model.
I wonder, in AoS, will he go the anti-chaos Chaos route. Like, the now non-canon, Malal. The dead chaos warrior on his base points to a possible anti-chaos sentiment.
Overread wrote: I think the AoS demon army thing is coming from the promotional video of him leading a demon army of demons. Also don't forget it wasn't that long ago that in AoS (or rather Old World) Chaos Demons were a single army and I'm sure there are those who would welcome those times back.
Personally I sort of feel that the separation in AoS is pretty strong now. Allies and such work, but I don't really want to see united Chaos Demons return. I think each army is stronger having its own toolbox of options. And I say that as someone who wishes Khorne and Slaanesh could ally so I can have fiends and hounds in the same army.
I think if they recombine that will dash hopes of new demon models. 2 Big updates to Slaanesh and not a single new demonic unit. A few leaders yes, but no core troop or monster. Even the mindestealer cat is a Slaves to Darkness model.
There is a combined Daemons Faction already from Wrath of the Everchosen: Legion of Chaos Ascendant. Only keyword requirement being Chaos Daemon
Bel'akor has a subfaction within it. Legion of the First Prince. Adding abilities specifically while he leads it and is on the table.
I actually wonder that there was already short story that did hint towards Skaven used by him so is there going to be new sub-faction that lets you take Skavens + Daemons in same list? That would be different.
Overread wrote: I think the AoS demon army thing is coming from the promotional video of him leading a demon army of demons. Also don't forget it wasn't that long ago that in AoS (or rather Old World) Chaos Demons were a single army and I'm sure there are those who would welcome those times back.
Personally I sort of feel that the separation in AoS is pretty strong now. Allies and such work, but I don't really want to see united Chaos Demons return. I think each army is stronger having its own toolbox of options. And I say that as someone who wishes Khorne and Slaanesh could ally so I can have fiends and hounds in the same army.
I think if they recombine that will dash hopes of new demon models. 2 Big updates to Slaanesh and not a single new demonic unit. A few leaders yes, but no core troop or monster. Even the mindestealer cat is a Slaves to Darkness model.
There is a combined Daemons Faction already from Wrath of the Everchosen: Legion of Chaos Ascendant. Only keyword requirement being Chaos Daemon
Bel'akor has a subfaction within it. Legion of the First Prince. Adding abilities specifically while he leads it and is on the table.
@Danny76. It's possible. I think seeing him now a warscroll change is all but guaranteed. Not sure if the Legion will get any changes maybe another battalion or two? Something themed around the new narrative.
Personally I'd love something to encourage Furies as they look like a perfect fit to be in Bel'akor's army
I rather like it, though a bit big for my taste. The big issues I see with it is that it will be ridiculously expensive and probably tedious to transport what with all the small pointy bits sticking out and the wings spreading so far.
Overread wrote: I think the AoS demon army thing is coming from the promotional video of him leading a demon army of demons.
Be'lakor is featured in Soul Wars: Wrath of the Everchosen and has his own Allegiance Abilities, Command Abilities and Spell Lore which affects LEGION OF THE FIRST PRINCE BLOODLETTERS, PLAGUEBEARERS, DAEMONETTES and HORRORS OF TZEENTCH.
kurhanik wrote: I rather like it, though a bit big for my taste. The big issues I see with it is that it will be ridiculously expensive and probably tedious to transport what with all the small pointy bits sticking out and the wings spreading so far.
The modern kits have definitely moved me completely to magnetic storage/transport as opposed to the foam I used to use.
Given that he's the first daemon prince and was empowered by all four gods, his size is big.
Is it a lot bigger than his old model? Yeah. But back then, even greater daemons were tiny. And he was around the same size of them. It's only fitting that he is now the size of some of the new greater daemons
kurhanik wrote: I rather like it, though a bit big for my taste. The big issues I see with it is that it will be ridiculously expensive and probably tedious to transport what with all the small pointy bits sticking out and the wings spreading so far.
The modern kits have definitely moved me completely to magnetic storage/transport as opposed to the foam I used to use.
Totaly! Foam storage just doesnt cut it even.. Magnetize the base and just keep it standing in a box. Problem solved.
Well, he is now properly imposing. As opposed to the old metal model who, while being a cool sculpt, I couldn't really take seriously because of its size. But this... this I can get behind. Hot damn!
H.B.M.C. wrote: I imagine he'll get new 40k rules and they'll be in the box.
Doubtful. 40k 'rules in the box' are just those simplified profiles and no actual rules.
I'd guess Book 2 of Warzone Charadon. With a real outside chance of the daemon codex itself (but I really doubt that, given how much is in the queue- a pdf update is more likely than that)
Ok.... He looks absolutely fantastic. Maybe a little heavy on the wing decorations but that's easily left off I presume. I do wonder where, if anywhere, GW goes with Daemons going forwards as they have such an extensive fully fleshed-out range now.
Eldarain wrote: @Danny76. It's possible. I think seeing him now a warscroll change is all but guaranteed. Not sure if the Legion will get any changes maybe another battalion or two? Something themed around the new narrative.
Personally I'd love something to encourage Furies as they look like a perfect fit to be in Bel'akor's army
GW already hinted at that when somebody asked on FB will he still have old warscroll with 8 wounds(who really thinks he won't get new warscroll? For GW size=wounds so regardless of other changes more wounds with new model is 100% quaranteed)
kurhanik wrote: I rather like it, though a bit big for my taste. The big issues I see with it is that it will be ridiculously expensive and probably tedious to transport what with all the small pointy bits sticking out and the wings spreading so far.
The modern kits have definitely moved me completely to magnetic storage/transport as opposed to the foam I used to use.
Totaly! Foam storage just doesnt cut it even.. Magnetize the base and just keep it standing in a box. Problem solved.
This. Teclis, lumineth pikes, archaon, terrorgheists, doomsday arks...lots of models so much easier with magnets.
Very impressive model. His original model was the only demon I ever painted (as I tracked down all the characters which were part of that huge WHF campaign ... now I do not even remember the name).
Hollow wrote: Ok.... He looks absolutely fantastic. Maybe a little heavy on the wing decorations but that's easily left off I presume. I do wonder where, if anywhere, GW goes with Daemons going forwards as they have such an extensive fully fleshed-out range now.
Daemons only have a handful of named characters that need conversion to plastic. Thanks to Warcry, even Furies have a plastic unit box. GW is going to have to start adding a few new units if they want new kits. Maybe some new ranged entries?
Tygre wrote: I wonder, in AoS, will he go the anti-chaos Chaos route. Like, the now non-canon, Malal. The dead chaos warrior on his base points to a possible anti-chaos sentiment.
I was thinking this exact thing earlier today. It could be quite likely.
Tygre wrote: I wonder, in AoS, will he go the anti-chaos Chaos route. Like, the now non-canon, Malal. The dead chaos warrior on his base points to a possible anti-chaos sentiment.
I was thinking this exact thing earlier today. It could be quite likely.
in wrath of the everchosen he has a legion of chaos ascending sub faction, so this might ge expanded on
, it might explain the tails sticking out from under his cloak
