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AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 20:56:44


Post by: drbored


I've seen yammering here and there on Age of Sigmar 3rd edition. We are coming up to a spot this Summer where it absolutely could happen. We're seeing Broken Realms (which is pretty much Psychic Awakening for AoS) and lots of factions are getting pretty significant updates.

Here's my prediction.

Soulblight Gravelords vs. Lumineth Realmlords.

The rest of the Lumineth models that haven't been fully revealed will be a part of this big box set. For this edition it might actually not be Stormcast Eternals in the box.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 21:06:14


Post by: Eldarain


That would be very cool but I think it's going to be Stormcast vs Orruks. There's been plenty of narrative hints that Gordrakk is making for Excelsis and possibly Azyr with his Godbeast battering ram (Grond, Grond, Grond...)

AoS1: SE vs Chaos
Aos2: SE vs Death
AoS3: SE vs Destruction?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 21:26:56


Post by: Da Boss


I'd be really chuffed if it was not Stormcast and some other faction for them to beat up, but I don't think it will be. It's clear that GW want Stormcast to be the Space Marines of AoS and core to that is putting them in all the starters.

I'd love to be wrong about that prediction though! One of my favourite things about Warhammer Fantasy Battle used to be that the starters could have any factions in them and were often an excuse to start an army...or two!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 21:41:44


Post by: Overread


We already know that the new Lumineth are coming with the next campaign book and that after that we have the campaign book with the recently revealed First Demon Prince model.


So Lumineth are unlikely to be a 3rd edition army.


I'd argue that neither are Vampires; both are too soon in the cycle whilst we still have campaign books.




AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 22:08:36


Post by: Charistoph


Thy could go with a classic and use one of the Cities of Sigmar armies, too.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 22:19:38


Post by: BlackoCatto


It is more likely they will get rid of CoS than give it something sadly. The only reason I play AoS is that army.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 22:26:37


Post by: Kanluwen


 Da Boss wrote:
I'd be really chuffed if it was not Stormcast and some other faction for them to beat up, but I don't think it will be. It's clear that GW want Stormcast to be the Space Marines of AoS and core to that is putting them in all the starters.

Sure that's why we got sets like Aether War, Carrion Empire, Looncurse, Feast of Bones, Shadow & Pain! For all that sweet, sweet Stormcast love.

I do get what you're saying, but I don't feel like Stormcast are really being pushed in the same way that Space Marines do. They're in the starters certainly, but beyond that...they're not as centralized.

I don't know if that statement makes sense the same way to you as I'm trying to make it sound like.

I'd love to be wrong about that prediction though! One of my favourite things about Warhammer Fantasy Battle used to be that the starters could have any factions in them and were often an excuse to start an army...or two!

Honestly, I'd agree with this if it weren't for the fact that the Battleboxes these days are closer to the starter sets of yesteryear when it comes to AoS+WHFB while sets like Soul Wars and Realmgate Wars are closer to the later offerings like Battle for Skull Pass and Island of Blood.

My personal hope is that they take the opportunity for the next chapter of AoS with Stormcast to actually really add some life to the Vanguard Chamber. It's such a wasted opportunity. Some of the rumors/hearsay that came up with what the Vanguard specific book would have done were aces.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 22:33:54


Post by: Eldarain


The Vanguard were a brilliant addition model wise. Chocobo Lord and unit especially. If it is Destruction an expansion of the Vanguard chamber would fit and be very tempting.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 22:45:13


Post by: Charistoph


BlackoCatto wrote:It is more likely they will get rid of CoS than give it something sadly. The only reason I play AoS is that army.

As a general organization. I agree.

However, I could easily see them setting one of the sub-factions with a new name and additions to speed them along, like the basic humans of the "Freeguild". It's not like there are any normal human-centric factions outside of them at present outside of Chaos that aren't mixed up in Cities.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/17 22:51:02


Post by: Kanluwen


They could have been better though. The heavy crossbowmen, rightfully so, feel out of place.

Scuttlebutt is that the Raptors were intended to be a new unit for the Warrior Chamber while the Gryph-Hound unit would be Vanguard exclusive, creating a fairly "in your face" army. The "Vanguard Hunters" were, again I have to stress that this is all rumored, to be something similar to the Paladins we saw in the Warrior Chamber. Low model count units with decent Wounds and some rules that could pop on their hits/wounds and the ability to charge in+exit combat like Gryph-Hounds could.

There's also, supposedly, an unreleased 'skirmisher' archer unit of Stormcast that had a weird wolfbeast partnered with each as their 'melee attack'.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 00:13:29


Post by: SamusDrake


Orks laying seige to Cities(with stormcast assistence) could be a winner for 3rd edition.

No idea otherwise.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 00:17:57


Post by: Overread


GW have been teasing this huge Orruk invasion for some time. I don't mind nor care if it comes with 3.0 or not; but I hope for Orruk players it comes with a big update of models. I think Orruks need some new ideas and more than just the same concepts played out over and over

At the start of AoS they had 3 forces which were all the same theme of design with just different sculpt styles and armour levels. Even now they are basically 2 armies of identical composition with the difference being if they wear armour or not. I'd rather see them get new ideas that really separate them as concepts and themes or which unite them. Either way give them something fresh.



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 00:46:01


Post by: BlackoCatto


 Charistoph wrote:
BlackoCatto wrote:It is more likely they will get rid of CoS than give it something sadly. The only reason I play AoS is that army.

As a general organization. I agree.

However, I could easily see them setting one of the sub-factions with a new name and additions to speed them along, like the basic humans of the "Freeguild". It's not like there are any normal human-centric factions outside of them at present outside of Chaos that aren't mixed up in Cities.



I'm hoping they don't get rid of the faction. It'd be a shame, but I already see the signs after that Morathi book.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 01:41:42


Post by: Argive


The realms will shatter and be no more.
Everyone will be forced to live in a place called the old world.

New game will be created called AOS: The old world. and everyone will need to rebase their minatures onto square bases.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 01:42:00


Post by: Charistoph


 BlackoCatto wrote:
I'm hoping they don't get rid of the faction. It'd be a shame, but I already see the signs after that Morathi book.

I'm looking at it at the loss as them reviving the Elves, Dwarfs, and Humans as their own factions instead of being all clumped together to reduce confusion.

I think it was a mistake to release the Morathi on their own, personally. We may seem them rejoined with the old Dark Elves again much like the Ironjaws and Bonesplitters were rejoined as the Warclans. But the same could be said about the two tribes of Dwarfs out there right now, too, along with their Cities' cousins.

Now, the Cities could keep the name and just be reduced to the old Human Empire models, and I think that would be fine. I think there is a lot of WTFery going on with having the Empire models mixed in with Wood, High, and Dark Elves, along with the old Longbearded Dwarfs as one complete faction.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 01:42:34


Post by: Overread


 Argive wrote:
The realms will shatter and be no more.
Everyone will be forced to live in a place called the old world.

New game will be created called AOS: The old world. and everyone will need to rebase their minatures onto square bases.


You mean hexagonal bases - they are the future not squares nor rounds!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 02:03:27


Post by: jaredb


There are still two unrelased stormcast chambers, so there is room for more releases. All the chambers have been in the lore since day 1 of aos.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 02:12:37


Post by: Kanluwen


Some of them aren't full chambers though, but rather just "officers".


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 02:15:10


Post by: BlackoCatto


Yea, still though I just see it as as a net negative if they do. I want them as their own army, not something more forgettable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
 Argive wrote:
The realms will shatter and be no more.
Everyone will be forced to live in a place called the old world.

New game will be created called AOS: The old world. and everyone will need to rebase their minatures onto square bases.


You mean hexagonal bases - they are the future not squares nor rounds!


Like Battle tech?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 02:32:33


Post by: Overread


 BlackoCatto wrote:
Yea, still though I just see it as as a net negative if they do. I want them as their own army, not something more forgettable.



I think at launch that very much was the plan. For Stormcast to end up with Chambers like Marines have Chapters. Then AoS flopped hard and a new direction was born. One that I think identified that the success of Marines can also be its undoing. When everyone at the club has a marine army, who is there to play against? What "enemies of mankind" are there when everyone goes for Marines and Marines generate the most sales alone? It's both a success and a trap. I think also for the health of the designers and GW's team itself its also a negative. We can almost see that some armies in 40K hardly have any active updates (eg Eldar) and one has to wonder, in a design led team, is that because the Marines have financially done so well that they've wound up with a 40K team who really only like and know and want to make Marine models not 40K models.

AoS has taken, I think, a FAR healthier direction since its launch. They've moved away from the idea of lots of Stormcast chamber armies and instead invested that creative outlet into diverse armies of all kinds. AoS and 40K actually have comparable numbers of factions between the games. However AoS hasn't pushed half of them into one single faction and design aesthetic. Even the Grand Alliance Order, whlist having the most individual factions, has a huge amount of variety within itself.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 06:51:44


Post by: ccs


 Argive wrote:
The realms will shatter and be no more.
Everyone will be forced to live in a place called the old world.

New game will be created called AOS: The old world. and everyone will need to rebase their minatures onto square bases.


Ha! As I've not re-based any of my old stuff I'll be ready day one.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 08:19:12


Post by: Da Boss


I really hope that Orcs and Goblins do get an update, but I really dislike the aesthetics of the bigger mega Orcs they made at the start of AoS (they look too 40K for me).

They used to have one of the most diverse ranges of miniatures, but now the Orc side has very little variety. The Goblin side is better, and it's true that very few people played Common Goblin armies before so focusing on the Night Goblins as the most crazy and distinct thing makes sense. But I miss the crazy huge combined armies of Black Orcs, Common Orcs, Big Uns, Savage Orcs, Common Goblins, Night Goblins, Forest Goblins, with wolf riders, wolf chariots, boar chariots and boar boars, spider riders and then a bunch of different trolls, ogres, giants and so on. It really was a super diverse army, and a cool mirror of the Empire that was also really diverse.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 14:45:44


Post by: Cronch


The orcs side of O&G was always the weaker part. orcs, orcs in armor or orcs with bone weapons, wherease the gobbos got all the crazy war machines and units like fanatics and spiders. Splitting them just underscored how bland orcs themselves were, and it's why Destruction has been dead in the water when it comes to "character" development...they pinned everything on Gorkamorka being the only god of Destruction and orruks being the main force...and orruks are boring.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 14:55:28


Post by: amazingturtles


Maybe they'll introduce the sky pirate grots they've been hinting at all of these books!

I mean. i can hope, can't i?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 17:21:25


Post by: Sasori


I feel like the Broken Realms is going to be a lead up to Malekith being the big bad for 3rd.

My theory is that he's been manipulating everything to break up alliances and cause infighting and turmoil for his own gains. Manipulated a Rift between Morathi and Sigmar, Teclis to help weaken Nagash and himself/Lumineth in the process. Infighting with Chaos between Bela'kor and Archeon, etc etc.



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 17:45:04


Post by: Grimskul


 Sasori wrote:
I feel like the Broken Realms is going to be a lead up to Malekith being the big bad for 3rd.

My theory is that he's been manipulating everything to break up alliances and cause infighting and turmoil for his own gains. Manipulated a Rift between Morathi and Sigmar, Teclis to help weaken Nagash and himself/Lumineth in the process. Infighting with Chaos between Bela'kor and Archeon, etc etc.



That would explain why they've been so secretive and hush hush about all the Ulgu stuff and Malerion's version of elves. I could definitely see them as the next big faction for them to market in a 3rd edition starter box.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 17:47:31


Post by: Overread


After Soulblight its the last big hinted at faction from the very start of AoS in terms of lore and impact and it IS odd that lore wise we've basically seen nothing of his actions thus far




AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 18:47:25


Post by: ccs


 Da Boss wrote:
I really hope that Orcs and Goblins do get an update, but I really dislike the aesthetics of the bigger mega Orcs they made at the start of AoS (they look too 40K for me).

They used to have one of the most diverse ranges of miniatures, but now the Orc side has very little variety. The Goblin side is better, and it's true that very few people played Common Goblin armies before so focusing on the Night Goblins as the most crazy and distinct thing makes sense. But I miss the crazy huge combined armies of Black Orcs, Common Orcs, Big Uns, Savage Orcs, Common Goblins, Night Goblins, Forest Goblins, with wolf riders, wolf chariots, boar chariots and boar boars, spider riders and then a bunch of different trolls, ogres, giants and so on. It really was a super diverse army, and a cool mirror of the Empire that was also really diverse.


So long as they don't screw up my Gloomspite. I'm quite happy with how they play.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 20:01:40


Post by: Charistoph


Cronch wrote:The orcs side of O&G was always the weaker part. orcs, orcs in armor or orcs with bone weapons, wherease the gobbos got all the crazy war machines and units like fanatics and spiders. Splitting them just underscored how bland orcs themselves were, and it's why Destruction has been dead in the water when it comes to "character" development...they pinned everything on Gorkamorka being the only god of Destruction and orruks being the main force...and orruks are boring.

The funny thing is that they still have the heavy armored orks and the savage orks, they just don't have the ones that are in between that also supervised the siege equipment, too (with the gobbos).

But yeah, they are just infantry with infantry, some heavy cavalry, and then more infantry. This is the main reason I'd be hesitant to start Orruks for anything but Warcry without thinking of planning on Allies from Ogres or Gobbos. The sad part is, I don't know what to include with them that would be in character and stealing from something else, like Trolls or Gargants.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 20:23:01


Post by: Grimskul


 Charistoph wrote:
Cronch wrote:The orcs side of O&G was always the weaker part. orcs, orcs in armor or orcs with bone weapons, wherease the gobbos got all the crazy war machines and units like fanatics and spiders. Splitting them just underscored how bland orcs themselves were, and it's why Destruction has been dead in the water when it comes to "character" development...they pinned everything on Gorkamorka being the only god of Destruction and orruks being the main force...and orruks are boring.

The funny thing is that they still have the heavy armored orks and the savage orks, they just don't have the ones that are in between that also supervised the siege equipment, too (with the gobbos).

But yeah, they are just infantry with infantry, some heavy cavalry, and then more infantry. This is the main reason I'd be hesitant to start Orruks for anything but Warcry without thinking of planning on Allies from Ogres or Gobbos. The sad part is, I don't know what to include with them that would be in character and stealing from something else, like Trolls or Gargants.


It definitely doesn't help that Gordrakk as a special character has never felt like an actual presence in the overall plot of AoS outside as some force of nature that is wherever the plot needs him to be. He lacks the mystery of Grimgor being a random killing machine that was hinted to be a slave of the Chaos Dwarves that escaped, or the character of Gorbad Ironclaw being one of the most successful Orc tacticians in history.

I'm primarily an Ironjawz player and I feel like they should double down on them being amongst the most heavily armoured of the Destruction factions so far. A defensive brute variant with tower shields of some sort or a brute weapons team where they hurl gigantic morning stars as either a ranged weapon or a melee option. Having an Ardboy Big Boss option and expanding more on what the Ardboyz do as the smiths/manufacturers would also be interesting, possibly giving an avenue for a return of Ruglud's Armoured Boyz with crossbows. Bonesplitterz mainly need a centerpiece unit, which a plastic Rogue Idol of Gork or Mork would do really well with, kind of like the Orky, less wimpy version of the Avatar of Khaine for DoK.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 21:04:27


Post by: Kanluwen


It is worth mentioning, as usual, that there's definitely hints of the Gitmobs being out there as a faction. We've just seen the Gloomspite Gitz, worshipers of the Bad Moon, so far.

There was some kind of schism in Grotkind at some point in the Age of Myth. It resulted in Gitmobs taking to the surface with wolves and becoming nomadic, chasing after the Evil Sun while the Gloomspite Gitz took to the caves and wait for the Bad Moon to shine upon them.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/18 21:28:39


Post by: Overread


Some themes are clearly kept around as conversion fodder - consider how long GW has been rolling out lore comments on Exodites despite not having made a model in decades for them.
I think things like skaven and gits with skyships are just the same; tempting lore ideas that make you convert with models within the GW ecosystem.



As for more and more armies, I sort of hope that GW slows down for a little with AoS. I do LOVE their creative armies and there are a few more that deserve to be out in the wild, but I also think that the Lumineth second wave really shows how much more factions become when they get a bit more attention and I'd hate to end up with GW having so many AoS forces that some end up not even getting drip fed new additions over time.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/19 04:16:38


Post by: tneva82


 Kanluwen wrote:

Honestly, I'd agree with this if it weren't for the fact that the Battleboxes these days are closer to the starter sets of yesteryear when it comes to AoS+WHFB while sets like Soul Wars and Realmgate Wars are closer to the later offerings like Battle for Skull Pass and Island of Blood.
.


Umm battle for skull pass and island of Blood were the editions starter sets. No different to say bretonnia vs lizard of 5th and orcs vs empire of 6th


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/19 12:52:22


Post by: Kanluwen


It helps to understand what's being said.

Battle for Skull Pass and Island of Blood were both starter sets--but the earlier starter sets tended to be closer to battleboxes as they were items that were generally available bundled in versus easy to build items designed specifically for those sets.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/19 16:21:57


Post by: Polonius


 Kanluwen wrote:
It helps to understand what's being said.

Battle for Skull Pass and Island of Blood were both starter sets--but the earlier starter sets tended to be closer to battleboxes as they were items that were generally available bundled in versus easy to build items designed specifically for those sets.


The 6th edition starter introduced all of the plastics it contained, some of which were generally released (cannon, boar chariot) while the two pose handgunner/spearman and double choppa/arrerr sprues were mostly released as part fo the starter and then the battalion boxes.

I'm pretty sure the plastics Brets/lizards in the 5th edition starter were created for it. The 4th edition gobbos and high elves might have already been released.



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/19 16:43:46


Post by: Kanluwen


Fair enough then, I got started when the Empire v Orcs & Gobbos box was the thing--but I guess far enough into the edition that the stuff had been released as well?

My overall point still stands though. BfSP+IoB and the rise of the whole "massive sprues full o' stuff" setup is still relatively new in terms of GW's overall history. There's a distinct difference between the "starter sets" that existed and consisted of kits bundled together and what we see now as "starter" sets, being dedicated sprues/models intended as entry points to the game.

We've had:
Island of Blood
Battle for Skull Pass
Age of Sigmar
Soul Wars

Battle for Macragge
Dark Vengeance
Dark Imperium
Indomitus


Dark Imperium, Indomitus, Soul Wars, and the AoS starter sets each had ancillary products which either had reduced content but were more "approachable" for existing players or people hesitant to dive in.

What we saw with this most recent edition of 40k has been weird though. The "Recruit/Elite/Command" Editions are all effectively what we would have seen as 'backup products' in years past.



To throw a random bit of speculation out there...
Maybe this is what we can look forward to for AoS 3E?
Big box full of new!new!new! vs reworked range as a big splashy bit with a special hardcover version of the rulebooks--and then a trio of actual 'starter sets' later on that have parts of that content locked away inside?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/25 16:50:47


Post by: jullevi


New edition feels imminent and Broken Realms books as pointless as Psychic Awakening were for 40k.

While Lumineth and Vampires are at spotlight currently, releasing a boxed set containing them after their big release waves would be odd. The new edition boxed set will feature the next two armies that are going to be in spotlight. GW wants to lure in players with cheap starter set models before releasing the expensive big ones, not vice versa.

Orcs as bad guys would make a lot of sense. They haven't had many new releases and previous two boxed sets featured Chaos and Death, maybe it's time for Destruction. Stormcast are a strong contender for good guys once again.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/25 20:04:47


Post by: drbored


jullevi wrote:
New edition feels imminent and Broken Realms books as pointless as Psychic Awakening were for 40k.

While Lumineth and Vampires are at spotlight currently, releasing a boxed set containing them after their big release waves would be odd. The new edition boxed set will feature the next two armies that are going to be in spotlight. GW wants to lure in players with cheap starter set models before releasing the expensive big ones, not vice versa.

Orcs as bad guys would make a lot of sense. They haven't had many new releases and previous two boxed sets featured Chaos and Death, maybe it's time for Destruction. Stormcast are a strong contender for good guys once again.


Yeah I think I jumped the gun on the prediction. We'll likely get through the Vampire release before the new edition comes out.

Would be great to see Destruction. Might have something to do with that Kragnos guy, who knows?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/25 20:48:04


Post by: Charistoph


If a new race was added to Destruction, what would it be?

I think the Orruks need a little more filling out, but moving beyond the Gargants, Orruks, Gobbos and Trolls, do you think a tribe of Humans or something more exotic could be added to them?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/25 20:59:40


Post by: drbored


 Charistoph wrote:
If a new race was added to Destruction, what would it be?

I think the Orruks need a little more filling out, but moving beyond the Gargants, Orruks, Gobbos and Trolls, do you think a tribe of Humans or something more exotic could be added to them?


I could see a tribe of humans being added, or they could flesh out the Dragon Ogres, Fomoroids, Ogroids, and/or the Fimir. Those are the things they already have that they could draw from, but they could also make brand new stuff, like they've been doing for AoS.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/25 22:19:13


Post by: Charistoph


What about an actual fish people army that are bent on destroying all those who dwell on land? The counter to the Idoneth in spirit and realm.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/25 23:52:00


Post by: drbored


 Charistoph wrote:
What about an actual fish people army that are bent on destroying all those who dwell on land? The counter to the Idoneth in spirit and realm.


I would absolutely love something like this.

There was also a little plot point in a previous Kharadron Overlords book about sky pirate goblins. We can only hope that that sort of thing could happen too.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/26 01:09:59


Post by: Grimskul


 Charistoph wrote:
What about an actual fish people army that are bent on destroying all those who dwell on land? The counter to the Idoneth in spirit and realm.


Sounds like the Naga in Warcraft. I can dig it.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/26 04:26:05


Post by: Charistoph


 Grimskul wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
What about an actual fish people army that are bent on destroying all those who dwell on land? The counter to the Idoneth in spirit and realm.


Sounds like the Naga in Warcraft. I can dig it.

Except the Idoneth would be the actual Naga, i.e. sea elves. Though in the Naga's case, they were corrupted by Void Spawn, a total different aspect of cosmology that is not explored/available in the Warhammer universe.

Though, now that I think about it, a Void-style Pantheon could work for inspiring the armies of Destruction, from the ever-hungry Maw to GorkaMorka, and additional aspects of destruction gods could emerge from different aspects of life that grew in the Mortal Realms, including the not-Naga fish people who would represent the hurricanes and tsunamis.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/26 04:48:54


Post by: Grimskul


 Charistoph wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
What about an actual fish people army that are bent on destroying all those who dwell on land? The counter to the Idoneth in spirit and realm.


Sounds like the Naga in Warcraft. I can dig it.

Except the Idoneth would be the actual Naga, i.e. sea elves. Though in the Naga's case, they were corrupted by Void Spawn, a total different aspect of cosmology that is not explored/available in the Warhammer universe.

Though, now that I think about it, a Void-style Pantheon could work for inspiring the armies of Destruction, from the ever-hungry Maw to GorkaMorka, and additional aspects of destruction gods could emerge from different aspects of life that grew in the Mortal Realms, including the not-Naga fish people who would represent the hurricanes and tsunamis.


I guess a better equivalent would be Murlocs or Murgulls if they were more coherent as a theme rather than being the slave race of the Naga.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/26 13:57:04


Post by: Polonius


Perhaps the Pan-Fo will finally be reviled.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/27 09:59:43


Post by: Bosskelot


Would Malerion's Elves really be Order though?

Could they be a Destruction army or is the identity of Destruction too interlinked with Gorkamorka?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/27 11:00:06


Post by: jaredb


Gordrakk has been messing about in the background stories and lore, and has been collecting some powerful relics. I don't think we've come close to seeing what his plans are yet.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/27 13:33:03


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Feels too early to be trying to guess, as Broken Realms promises some major shifts.

Teclis of course is doing something about Nagash, and Belakor is making his entry to the Mortal Realms.

Then there’s that new bloke teased during last week’s trailer.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/27 14:59:48


Post by: warl0rdb0b


From the leaks coming in from the reviews of BR Teclis, there are some HUGE shifts and changes coming for Death, and not all of them sound particularly promising for some armies.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/28 00:11:44


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Polonius wrote:


I'm pretty sure the plastics Brets/lizards in the 5th edition starter were created for it. The 4th edition gobbos and high elves might have already been released.



Those same plastics weren't exclusively for the starter set however. Lizards and Brets were the 'new' factions of 5th edition and those plastics were their core plastics from that point onward. If anything being in the starter box was a happy accident. They cetainly don't feel designed for the starter box.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/28 00:29:00


Post by: Cronch


To be honest, back in the day there wasn't much difference between "starter" plastic and normal, the saurus warriors had 4 pieces- the head, arm, body and shield...and aside from shield could actually be made 100% push-fit. Without massive gaps like modern GW push-fits too!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/28 01:27:01


Post by: Ghaz


The 3rd edition 40K starter box was the same. All of the models in the box were the same as what was available in their own kits for years (or even decades) to come.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 02:50:19


Post by: drbored


 Bosskelot wrote:
Would Malerion's Elves really be Order though?

Could they be a Destruction army or is the identity of Destruction too interlinked with Gorkamorka?


Order is described as those factions that build and maintain cities and temples.

Chaos worships Chaos in its myriad forms.

Death is... dead stuff.

Destruction tears things down and is not known for maintaining static cities and temples.

So, really, Destruction could definitely stretch to things beyond Gork and Mork, it's just that they haven't yet. There's definitely some untapped potential.

If we were talking in 40k terms, Tyranids would be a great example of a Destruction army. They keep moving and keep eating, but aren't known for their advanced civilization or cities


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 09:50:39


Post by: DarkStarSabre


drbored wrote:
 Bosskelot wrote:
Would Malerion's Elves really be Order though?

Could they be a Destruction army or is the identity of Destruction too interlinked with Gorkamorka?


Order is described as those factions that build and maintain cities and temples.

Chaos worships Chaos in its myriad forms.

Death is... dead stuff.

Destruction tears things down and is not known for maintaining static cities and temples.

So, really, Destruction could definitely stretch to things beyond Gork and Mork, it's just that they haven't yet. There's definitely some untapped potential.

If we were talking in 40k terms, Tyranids would be a great example of a Destruction army. They keep moving and keep eating, but aren't known for their advanced civilization or cities


Malerion would build cities and temples though. Just as Teclis is determined to 'remake' Ulthuan in its glory, Malerion would likely be determined to rebuild Naggaroth the same way. They won't be nice fluffy friendly towers and temples but they're still there.

Destruction seems....eh. I feel it was intended as a generic 'dump' allegiance (much like Xenos in 40k) but ended up becoming interwoven with GorkaMorka.



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 11:28:34


Post by: Hellebore


One thing odd to me is that death is the only one ruled by a single god.

It puts nagash in a position unique to every other god. Chaos is 4 separate gods, but death just one.


Imo they need to break nagash's power into several gods to bring the super faction into alignment with the others.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 11:57:32


Post by: Hanskrampf


 Hellebore wrote:
One thing odd to me is that death is the only one ruled by a single god.

It puts nagash in a position unique to every other god. Chaos is 4 separate gods, but death just one.


Imo they need to break nagash's power into several gods to bring the super faction into alignment with the others.


Nagash destroyed all other gods of death and would never share his power. FEC are in GA Death, but are neither undead nor are they ruled by Nagash.
The Chaos Gods hinder each other as much as they are useful to each other. Still, the realms are largely dominated by Chaos.
Order has so many factions, most of them with their own goals (see DoK) and much power struggle.
Destruction also only has a single god.

I would say Nagash as the single ruler/god is doing just fine.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 12:23:07


Post by: Overread


Nagash hasn't consumed all the gods of death or at least not all the different lands within his realm. Death as a Realm is perhaps one of the more strange in that its almost realms within realms in how its built. There's a vast region devoted just to the Skaven and their own ruinous afterlife which is holding out against Nagash. Other realms also stand in war against him - we see this in Ghoulslayer.

However Nagash is hard to beat and has a steamroller momentum going on


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 15:49:46


Post by: Cronch


Destruction also has just one god, GorkaMorka. there might be some other deities, but they bent the lore backwards to ensure every major destruction faction worships the orc god...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 15:56:47


Post by: Overread


That said Destruction, by its very nature, is chaotic in that it will build up a vast hoard and then it will collapse in on itself at some point. If anything once they run out of foes they collapse back into fragmented waring tribes again.

It's not quite the same as Death where all, save Flesheaters, are commanded by one godly force and even the Flesheaters can be - herded - in the right general direction to cause untold damage.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/29 20:28:01


Post by: Eldarsif


 BlackoCatto wrote:
It is more likely they will get rid of CoS than give it something sadly. The only reason I play AoS is that army.


Considering the fact that Cities of Sigmar have been getting a little bit of love in each Broken Realm book I imagine GW has embraced them. Now that doesn't preclude them from changing the factional organization, but I don't think CoS are going to be disappearing anytime soon.

Regarding the new edition it is obvious that the Broken Realms books is killing off the idea of Grand Alliances. BR Morathi has created massive distrust within Order and BR Teclis has basically undone all what Nagash has done and broken his hold on the undead. I imagine BR Belakor will shatter Chaos and that BR Kragnos will do something nasty to Destruction.

Lorewise I am happy about all of this as there is nothing more boring than stale settings. All of this distrust(and loss of control in terms of DEATH) means that there are a lot of lore development and reorgs waiting to happen.

Gamewise I think it is almost guaranteed that GW will standardize the min table size to the 40k size. I also imagine we will see some changes to endless spells(since what caused them has been lessened) and I am curious to see if they will drop the Round Roll off.

Along with this I imagine we will see a shakeup of the missions and they will very likely be more like the 40k missions currently. On top of that I imagine Path to Glory will be made to be more like Crusade in 40k.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 02:22:31


Post by: Hellebore


Cronch wrote:
Destruction also has just one god, GorkaMorka. there might be some other deities, but they bent the lore backwards to ensure every major destruction faction worships the orc god...


Ah ok, I had thought the Maw had survived in its own form, but it seems they just made it the ogor version of Gorkamorka...



My main reason for this observation is that it gives one superfaction too much cooperation to be controlled and led by a single god. The other factions have several and they don't always agree, but with Nagash having a stranglehold over Death, it makes death too organised and more of a focused threat than chaos, which to me is a bit off.

So I think there needs to be a shakeup where Nagash has some of his power usurped and a couple of upstart death gods vie for control. This reduces Nagash's power level, but it also prevents Death from being a unified faction under one ruler making it as unstable as the others.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 03:52:12


Post by: Asherian Command


 Eldarain wrote:
The Vanguard were a brilliant addition model wise. Chocobo Lord and unit especially. If it is Destruction an expansion of the Vanguard chamber would fit and be very tempting.


Honestly a flying chamber or other chambers would be interesting to see added for Stormcasts, feel like we are missing normal cav with lances option for Stormcasts especially to scratch that brettonian itch I keep having. But again I do tihnk Destruction is next up and we will get normal Orcs + Goblins or an Equalivent


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 06:58:47


Post by: Tiberius501


I don’t know if others have mentioned this, but I’m wondering if Kragnos will arrive with a new Destruction army, and 3rd Ed will be SCE vs him.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 08:13:44


Post by: Eldarsif


My main reason for this observation is that it gives one superfaction too much cooperation to be controlled and led by a single god. The other factions have several and they don't always agree, but with Nagash having a stranglehold over Death, it makes death too organised and more of a focused threat than chaos, which to me is a bit off.

So I think there needs to be a shakeup where Nagash has some of his power usurped and a couple of upstart death gods vie for control. This reduces Nagash's power level, but it also prevents Death from being a unified faction under one ruler making it as unstable as the others.


So I am going to put this into a spoiler for thosewho haven't seen the lore in Broken Realm Teclis:

Spoiler:

Teclis spanks Nagash and destroys his hold on Death. They also undo the Necroquake for the most part and all his planning and scheming for the past 3 years. I believe this is why we are seeing the Gravelords coming out as they are stepping up to fill Nagash's void.

So with Morathi betraying Sigmar, Teclis destroying Nagash's dominance, and with Belakor being the way he is I imagine the idea of Grand Alliances is a bygone dream in the coming future.

Also, Arkhan is apparently now "deader" than before.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 11:19:22


Post by: Cronch


Spoiler:

wait, seriously? oh god, the mad lads actually did it, they went full saturday morning cartoon on the plot


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 11:49:27


Post by: Overread


I just want to remind people that Grand Alliances aren't actual alliances that last long term.

Chaos, for example, has 4 core god factions who have been fighting against each other for millennia untold. Khorne and Slaanesh forces won't even allow alliance between them directly ( the only way you get them on the same side is supporting a Slaves to Darkness force).

Skaven fight everyone and even themselves and only just tolerate a sort of alliance with Nurgle when it suits them. But they've been undermining and backstabbing all of chaos.



Chaos as a Grand Alliance shows that there's honestly no love between the forces and most of the time they can be fully at war with each other.







What hte Grand Alliances represent are ideals and ways of life and also alliance blocks that will more commonly stand united against a greater foe. Eg Destruction and Death will stand with Order against Chaos, but the nature and ideals of those blocks are very different.

Morathi backstabbing Sigmar doesn't mean that the GA is over; honestly I think its a core part of the setting that will last the long term. Heck Idoneth by their very lore have been harvesting souls from humans and such for ages now. There's basically not a single force in Order that "likes" the Idoneth and Morathi only secured an alliance through force and the fact that she also just lost a firm alliance with Sigmar and is going on the expansion.



I think the key is to realise that AoS's overarching story is more Dynastic than Character. It's more like Crusader Kings than it is Baldur's Gate. You're questing with gods and long histories rather than the small scale. At least for the main thrust of the story.

So sure Morathi and Sigmar can be at war now, in 60 years they might ally again once Morathi has finished backstabbing and secured herself a more prominent kingdom. Heck when you consider that both she and Sigmar are perhaps the most die-hard anti-chaos forces in Order they've a lot to unite on in ideals even if Sigmar knows she'll betray him or at least use whatever she cna to further her own cauase.

Meanwhile the Sylvanth are as like to ally with you as they are to tear you apart. A shift in the seasons; a shift in their Everqueens mental state; cutting down the wrong trees to make fire wood for the encampment.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 12:23:24


Post by: Cronch



I think the key is to realise that AoS's overarching story is more Dynastic than Character.

I'd agree, but in the end the mortal characters are almost all disposable, they exist just to enact the will of the main characters, the Gods. Soul Wars were literally sparked by something the two main characters did 500 years earlier.AoS is a very small story that's just drawn out for a long time.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 13:19:35


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


3rd Ed? I would hope for changes to shooting.

Now I like shooting, I have well over 2k of Dwarfs I run as cities of sigmar which involves plenty of war machines and crossbows/iron drakes whittling down the foes as the shieldwall marches up to finish them off!

But the way the rules work can make such an army feel overly oppressive, even though its not fully devoted to shooting and things like KO and LRL just straight up feels bad.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 14:25:27


Post by: Eldarsif


 Overread wrote:
What hte Grand Alliances represent are ideals and ways of life and also alliance blocks that will more commonly stand united against a greater foe. Eg Destruction and Death will stand with Order against Chaos, but the nature and ideals of those blocks are very different.


I agree, but the problem with the Grand Alliances is that they have all been based off on ideals except for Death which has Nagash holding its reins tightly. Also the reason why he is setup as the villain of edition 2.0. It does however, create Death as an outlier to the Grand Alliances do to his control over all of Death. It's the reason why I love Flesh-Eater Courts as they seem to be the few mad enough to give Nagash the finger.

Spoiler:
Which they seem to be addressing in the latest Broken Realm book with removing Nagash's hold. In my mind this was a much needed thing as Death holds a lot of political maneuvering in the lore/novels that tends to be overshadowed by the absoluteness of Nagash's power.


So sure Morathi and Sigmar can be at war now, in 60 years they might ally again once Morathi has finished backstabbing and secured herself a more prominent kingdom. Heck when you consider that both she and Sigmar are perhaps the most die-hard anti-chaos forces in Order they've a lot to unite on in ideals even if Sigmar knows she'll betray him or at least use whatever she cna to further her own cauase.


I mean, I do believe Sigmar knows that when it comes to fighting Slaanesh he probably wants Morathi and her witches on his side. However, with the current shakeup in BR Morathi it at least opens up for more lore reason for the factions to fight in the first place. I think a tenuous alliance is better for the lore and the games we play..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
3rd Ed? I would hope for changes to shooting.

Now I like shooting, I have well over 2k of Dwarfs I run as cities of sigmar which involves plenty of war machines and crossbows/iron drakes whittling down the foes as the shieldwall marches up to finish them off!

But the way the rules work can make such an army feel overly oppressive, even though its not fully devoted to shooting and things like KO and LRL just straight up feels bad.


If they remove the random turn order shooting might lose a bit of its power. Currently it holds a lot of power as it is a non-reactionary action and double-turn reinforces that wholesale. Removing the random turn order and shooting stays strong, but you won't be getting any bonus shooting.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 15:27:13


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Overread wrote:


So sure Morathi and Sigmar can be at war now, in 60 years they might ally again once Morathi has finished backstabbing and secured herself a more prominent kingdom. Heck when you consider that both she and Sigmar are perhaps the most die-hard anti-chaos forces in Order they've a lot to unite on in ideals even if Sigmar knows she'll betray him or at least use whatever she cna to further her own cauase.


*ANGRY LIZARD NOISES as forgotten once again*

For the record, the fact that Seraphon seem to be getting a Broken Realms WD campaign...doesn't bode well. It sort of suggests the Seraphon don't get any part in what's coming beyond a small background event. I do seriously hope I'm wrong though.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 15:37:42


Post by: Asherian Command


Cronch wrote:
Spoiler:

wait, seriously? oh god, the mad lads actually did it, they went full saturday morning cartoon on the plot


Not really, Thats a bit of an exaggeration I feel.

The entire story of broken realms : Teclis and Morathi have been leaps and bounds better than the entire Psychic Awakening. And its not a saturday morning cartoon if so many characters have motivations etc. Cartoon Plot implies they are nonsensical but they aren't here.

Overall I can't wait for 3rd and see what they do especially with the hints in Teclis.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 15:41:37


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Asherian Command wrote:


The entire story of broken realms :


'Elves are why we can't have nice things.'

I think that's a fair summary.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 15:50:58


Post by: Asherian Command


 Eldarsif wrote:
 Overread wrote:
What hte Grand Alliances represent are ideals and ways of life and also alliance blocks that will more commonly stand united against a greater foe. Eg Destruction and Death will stand with Order against Chaos, but the nature and ideals of those blocks are very different.


I agree, but the problem with the Grand Alliances is that they have all been based off on ideals except for Death which has Nagash holding its reins tightly. Also the reason why he is setup as the villain of edition 2.0. It does however, create Death as an outlier to the Grand Alliances do to his control over all of Death. It's the reason why I love Flesh-Eater Courts as they seem to be the few mad enough to give Nagash the finger.

Spoiler:
Which they seem to be addressing in the latest Broken Realm book with removing Nagash's hold. In my mind this was a much needed thing as Death holds a lot of political maneuvering in the lore/novels that tends to be overshadowed by the absoluteness of Nagash's power.


So sure Morathi and Sigmar can be at war now, in 60 years they might ally again once Morathi has finished backstabbing and secured herself a more prominent kingdom. Heck when you consider that both she and Sigmar are perhaps the most die-hard anti-chaos forces in Order they've a lot to unite on in ideals even if Sigmar knows she'll betray him or at least use whatever she cna to further her own cauase.


I mean, I do believe Sigmar knows that when it comes to fighting Slaanesh he probably wants Morathi and her witches on his side. However, with the current shakeup in BR Morathi it at least opens up for more lore reason for the factions to fight in the first place. I think a tenuous alliance is better for the lore and the games we play..


Yes, that is the most exciting part about Broken Realms. Is that the shake-ups are so worthwhile

My favorite bit is just how rewarding and characterful the reads have been for Broken Realms.

Spoiler:
With Nagash out of power this is great, and basically intreprets why Gravelords have all his special units and why Nagash's Legions might be broken up into different armies, like that is a great characterful reason...

ALSO ELITHARION gets his reward for being punked in End Times, and literally in a Hulk-Avengers like move beats the helk out of Arkhan is probably my most favorite part of the book and I literally giggled in excitement that right there, is my favorite part of the entire series. THe writers acknowledging the past beef these two had and having this wonderful character scenes between Ally (Goddess of Life) And Teclis is so interesting and dynamic.

Then you have Allarille essentially hinting "I am getting the band back together" and she is preparing herself for like a Life Quake of some kind and is getting ready to basically beat everyone up. And hopefully her rules are improved her Broken Realms and maybe she is summoning champion gods for her to help her save her realm.

This is a very good book. I can't wait for the next one. (Which feels odd saying about a CAMPAIGN book like the story is intriguing, the characters are interesting, the rules are great, and they aren't all coming out at once and changing all the rules.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
3rd Ed? I would hope for changes to shooting.

Now I like shooting, I have well over 2k of Dwarfs I run as cities of sigmar which involves plenty of war machines and crossbows/iron drakes whittling down the foes as the shieldwall marches up to finish them off!

But the way the rules work can make such an army feel overly oppressive, even though its not fully devoted to shooting and things like KO and LRL just straight up feels bad.


If they remove the random turn order shooting might lose a bit of its power. Currently it holds a lot of power as it is a non-reactionary action and double-turn reinforces that wholesale. Removing the random turn order and shooting stays strong, but you won't be getting any bonus shooting.


Yeah which is a huge issue I feel especially for lumineth. I love my lumineth but the fact that my sentinels are that effecctive, which means my units i want to use Bladelords or Dawnriders are just ineffectual or bad choices. And how my liberators for stormcasts are outdone and useless compared to Judicators.

Overall I agree Range seems to be king. Which is not a surprise.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 16:28:54


Post by: Overread


 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Overread wrote:


So sure Morathi and Sigmar can be at war now, in 60 years they might ally again once Morathi has finished backstabbing and secured herself a more prominent kingdom. Heck when you consider that both she and Sigmar are perhaps the most die-hard anti-chaos forces in Order they've a lot to unite on in ideals even if Sigmar knows she'll betray him or at least use whatever she cna to further her own cauase.


*ANGRY LIZARD NOISES as forgotten once again*

For the record, the fact that Seraphon seem to be getting a Broken Realms WD campaign...doesn't bode well. It sort of suggests the Seraphon don't get any part in what's coming beyond a small background event. I do seriously hope I'm wrong though.


Lizards are playing a whole different game though. Sigmar and the other gods are fighting for the Mortal Realms. Be it for themselves, their people or a mish mash of the two. In general they are fighting for those Realms. The Seraphon view the Mortal Realms as just another battlefield in the long war against Chaos that, for them, spans the cosmos. Their plans are looking so far forward that their actions in the now can appear incomprehensible yet might make sense to a plan that's got elements so far in the future that the gods themselves would be old and aged.

That said I do think it curious that perhaps one of the biggest players have been very silent. That said I think Seraphon are quiet perhaps because GW wants ot update them in a big way all in one go and thus they are waiting for that slot which might be a while off yet. So they might be ticking over for a while with small updates and a new tome when needed, but won't take part in the big story until a big launch event for them. Much like Malarion is also a very key and big player (he rules most of the realm of shadow) and yet hasn't done much either within the story.

Soulblight are actually an oddity in that we've had quite a few vampire stories and events without them really having much of an army save for being mostly Legions of Nagash in bits.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 17:00:29


Post by: Charistoph


Overread wrote:Skaven fight everyone and even themselves and only just tolerate a sort of alliance with Nurgle when it suits them. But they've been undermining and backstabbing all of chaos.

Reading this, it made me think that the Horned Rat and Malal/Malice are one in the same, or maybe the Rat just took over for the Fantasy side.

Overread wrote:Soulblight are actually an oddity in that we've had quite a few vampire stories and events without them really having much of an army save for being mostly Legions of Nagash in bits.

Maybe having Nagash out of the way, Mannfred is seeing the opportunity to press forward and that is why we are seeing them come out as an army now. This could also consolidate a lot of the Legion in to a more defined space, much like the Flesh Eaters were.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 17:31:33


Post by: Asherian Command


I hope we get a god of the Lizardmen of somekind, the fact that we don't have a main center piece character for the lizardmen is a shame. Like a Serpent creature god would be awesome.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 17:35:32


Post by: Overread


Slaan don't need gods - they've godlike powers already. At least the really ancient ones.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 17:51:50


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Asherian Command wrote:
I hope we get a god of the Lizardmen of somekind, the fact that we don't have a main center piece character for the lizardmen is a shame. Like a Serpent creature god would be awesome.


As said, we don't need gods....as such.

But we do need a centrepiece.

Mazdamundi would be perfect to be brought back as some sort of supreme avatar of Law....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
Slaan don't need gods - they've godlike powers already. At least the really ancient ones.


Yep. We just need an ancient Slann that can stand up to Teclis/Nagash/Morathi/Archaon on their terms - Mazdamundi would be the ideal candidate...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 19:25:15


Post by: Asherian Command


Or you bring back a Tehenhauin or any of the numerous other Lizardmen Heroes out there. I mean you can also do any of the major lizardmen characters from the old world. But if I remember right, Maz died way before the lizardmen left, I wouldn't be surprised if they use the Prophet of Sotek so we have like a division between the Lizardmen the Sotek / Blood Cultistish and the Star Driven ones led by Mazdamundi. So like two factions for the price of one. But you can play either one.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 19:29:12


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Asherian Command wrote:
Or you bring back a Tehenhauin or any of the numerous other Lizardmen Heroes out there. I mean you can also do any of the major lizardmen characters from the old world. But if I remember right, Maz died way before the lizardmen left, I wouldn't be surprised if they use the Prophet of Sotek so we have like a division between the Lizardmen the Sotek / Blood Cultistish and the Star Driven ones led by Mazdamundi. So like two factions for the price of one. But you can play either one.


Mazdamundi may have technically died...but then, so did Sigvald. And Teclis actually. As did Kroak.

Lizardmen Memory Resurrection Shenanigans are basically confirmed to be a thing with AoS.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 20:36:40


Post by: Charistoph


 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Mazdamundi may have technically died...but then, so did Sigvald. And Teclis actually. As did Kroak.

Heh, Kroak was long dead before the End of the World. Was there ever a time where we had Kroak when he wasn't a mummy?

Still, a Mazdamundi on a Steggo or a new Kroak sculpt to be a centerpiece would probably be the way to go for a centerpiece. The other option is just someone brand new like the Bonereaper's and Nighthaunt's centerpiece models are.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 20:41:53


Post by: Platuan4th


 Charistoph wrote:
Overread wrote:Skaven fight everyone and even themselves and only just tolerate a sort of alliance with Nurgle when it suits them. But they've been undermining and backstabbing all of chaos.

Reading this, it made me think that the Horned Rat and Malal/Malice are one in the same, or maybe the Rat just took over for the Fantasy side.


Not really, that's just Skaven being Skaven. The entirety of Skaven history and society is built upon schemes within schemes, backstabbing each other to gain power, and making false alliances with other factions that they always intend to turn on to increase their power and prove their perceived superiority over the other races. They're the living embodiment of "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!". They literally only allied with Archaon during the End Times because the Horned Rat knew it was the only way for his children to survive into what happened afterwards and for himself to gain enough power to ascend to truly being part of the pantheon.

Skaven also require and crave the nearby presence of other Skaven while Champions of Malal are notorious for being loners. It was always one of the flaws of Malal's desire to topple the other gods that he lacked large numbers of followers.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/30 21:04:18


Post by: Overread


I think the next but story turn for Skaven could be the female skaven. There's talk in their new Battletome of at least one coven of females in one of the major settlements banding together and using schemes to manipulate the males to their own gain. It wouldn't surprise me if at some stage one of the mighty brood mothers might try and make a bid for open power. It would certainly shake things up for Skaven to have a female rise above the ranks of a simple herd breeder and to command the teeming hoards.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/31 00:54:18


Post by: Charistoph


 Platuan4th wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
Overread wrote:Skaven fight everyone and even themselves and only just tolerate a sort of alliance with Nurgle when it suits them. But they've been undermining and backstabbing all of chaos.

Reading this, it made me think that the Horned Rat and Malal/Malice are one in the same, or maybe the Rat just took over for the Fantasy side.


Not really, that's just Skaven being Skaven. The entirety of Skaven history and society is built upon schemes within schemes, backstabbing each other to gain power, and making false alliances with other factions that they always intend to turn on to increase their power and prove their perceived superiority over the other races. They're the living embodiment of "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!". They literally only allied with Archaon during the End Times because the Horned Rat knew it was the only way for his children to survive into what happened afterwards and for himself to gain enough power to ascend to truly being part of the pantheon.

But that's part of my point. They both play off each other VERY well, at least for the Fantasy side. Malal/Malice is all about Chaos' self-destructive tendencies, which is definitely a Skaven characteristic.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Skaven also require and crave the nearby presence of other Skaven while Champions of Malal are notorious for being loners. It was always one of the flaws of Malal's desire to topple the other gods that he lacked large numbers of followers.

Well, there is a huge difference between a race that multiplies itself to superiority and a heavily modified super-human. To be fair, I could see the Hrud being introduced more to represent this pantheon, but the Sons of Malice could still be in as well, though they haven't been very rat-like, except eating their enemies...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/31 13:10:42


Post by: Rihgu


 Overread wrote:
I think the next but story turn for Skaven could be the female skaven. There's talk in their new Battletome of at least one coven of females in one of the major settlements banding together and using schemes to manipulate the males to their own gain. It wouldn't surprise me if at some stage one of the mighty brood mothers might try and make a bid for open power. It would certainly shake things up for Skaven to have a female rise above the ranks of a simple herd breeder and to command the teeming hoards.


I didn't realize there were female skaven that weren't mountains of bloated, mindless flesh. I'm happy to see that they shifted away from that horrible portrayal (even if only a bit?)


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/03/31 14:00:26


Post by: Overread


Rihgu wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I think the next but story turn for Skaven could be the female skaven. There's talk in their new Battletome of at least one coven of females in one of the major settlements banding together and using schemes to manipulate the males to their own gain. It wouldn't surprise me if at some stage one of the mighty brood mothers might try and make a bid for open power. It would certainly shake things up for Skaven to have a female rise above the ranks of a simple herd breeder and to command the teeming hoards.


I didn't realize there were female skaven that weren't mountains of bloated, mindless flesh. I'm happy to see that they shifted away from that horrible portrayal (even if only a bit?)


They are still mountains of bloated breeding flesh. They are basically injected and modified from birth to become mighty breeders. The difference is that in the Old World they were fully mindless and simply used for breeding. In AoS they are mostly like that, but there are hints of a few that might be smarter and hiding their intelligence to manipulate some skaven in the background. Right now its a story hook. A potential thread that GW could develop if they so chose. It would also be interesting to see it developed as I think that such a thing could be used to give Skaven some long term goals beyond just messing things up. Ergo suggesting that whilst the males in-fight all the time, the females are looking at the grander picture and longer term goals, whilst also being stable enough that they don't in-fight in the same way so that they don't undo their gains


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/01 00:51:11


Post by: Platuan4th


 Charistoph wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
Overread wrote:Skaven fight everyone and even themselves and only just tolerate a sort of alliance with Nurgle when it suits them. But they've been undermining and backstabbing all of chaos.

Reading this, it made me think that the Horned Rat and Malal/Malice are one in the same, or maybe the Rat just took over for the Fantasy side.


Not really, that's just Skaven being Skaven. The entirety of Skaven history and society is built upon schemes within schemes, backstabbing each other to gain power, and making false alliances with other factions that they always intend to turn on to increase their power and prove their perceived superiority over the other races. They're the living embodiment of "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!". They literally only allied with Archaon during the End Times because the Horned Rat knew it was the only way for his children to survive into what happened afterwards and for himself to gain enough power to ascend to truly being part of the pantheon.

But that's part of my point. They both play off each other VERY well, at least for the Fantasy side. Malal/Malice is all about Chaos' self-destructive tendencies, which is definitely a Skaven characteristic.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Skaven also require and crave the nearby presence of other Skaven while Champions of Malal are notorious for being loners. It was always one of the flaws of Malal's desire to topple the other gods that he lacked large numbers of followers.

Well, there is a huge difference between a race that multiplies itself to superiority and a heavily modified super-human. To be fair, I could see the Hrud being introduced more to represent this pantheon, but the Sons of Malice could still be in as well, though they haven't been very rat-like, except eating their enemies...


I wasn't talking about Chaos Marine champions, I was talking about his Fantasy champions like Kaaleb Dark. Malal also had a tendency to prefer actively attacking Chaos over others where as Skaven more often than not actively avoided the Wastes and Chaos when given the chance. The only real similarity in Fantasy was the self-destructive nature.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/01 02:32:12


Post by: Charistoph


 Platuan4th wrote:
I wasn't talking about Chaos Marine champions, I was talking about his Fantasy champions like Kaaleb Dark. Malal also had a tendency to prefer actively attacking Chaos over others where as Skaven more often than not actively avoided the Wastes and Chaos when given the chance. The only real similarity in Fantasy was the self-destructive nature.

And that self-destructive nature is what I was mainly referring to. How much better to represent the self-destructive nature of Chaos in a God than the Horned Rat?

The Skaven gnawed from underneath civilization, but if they rose up in a town already overrun by Khorne berzerkers, they'd fight them just as much as they would have fought the Empire's Halberdiers.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/01 11:13:13


Post by: Togusa


Me and my three variations of Ironjawz will just continue to sit in the corner over here with the Fyreslayers players and the people who play Cities of Sigmar and hope for something out of all of this.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/01 12:15:33


Post by: Platuan4th


 Charistoph wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
I wasn't talking about Chaos Marine champions, I was talking about his Fantasy champions like Kaaleb Dark. Malal also had a tendency to prefer actively attacking Chaos over others where as Skaven more often than not actively avoided the Wastes and Chaos when given the chance. The only real similarity in Fantasy was the self-destructive nature.

And that self-destructive nature is what I was mainly referring to. How much better to represent the self-destructive nature of Chaos in a God than the Horned Rat?

The Skaven gnawed from underneath civilization, but if they rose up in a town already overrun by Khorne berzerkers, they'd fight them just as much as they would have fought the Empire's Halberdiers.


Depends on the situation. More often than not, they'd wait until the threat was gone before picking over the ruins if they hadn't had the time to try their various plots to weaken the enemy first. Or they'd wait until both forces were exhausted from fighting each other to ambush them both. Skaven uprisings only happened after years of planning and implementation of schemes or as a result of very good opportunities presenting themselves. A Chaos horde showing up where they planned to attack? They'd hide away until the heavy action was done.Them being cowards despite their big talk has always been part of their cartoon villain personality. This is a race that has been gaslighting the entire Empire for thousands of years so that any attacks they do are a complete surprise. The entire reason their activities in the End Times are noteworthy is because it's literally the first time they mass attacked as a race with almost no preparation because the Horned Rat himself showed and said to.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/01 22:53:48


Post by: drbored


Seraphon really did get the short end of the stick with their update. Like, thank goodness we got the 'coalesced' as part of their lore, but wow.

We need a lot moved to plastic and a lot of old models updated. A wonky pyramid isn't what the Seraphon needed...

But, here's hoping in a couple years we'll have saurus knights riding actually scary velociraptor-like dinosaurs instead of wonky barney-beasts.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/02 00:46:52


Post by: Charistoph


The funny thing is that the Saurus Knight kits were just like a few months before the Dark Elf kits came out and those look AMAZING in comparison. Too bad it's double GW's pleasure to mix them up.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/02 01:32:40


Post by: DarkStarSabre


drbored wrote:
Seraphon really did get the short end of the stick with their update. Like, thank goodness we got the 'coalesced' as part of their lore, but wow.

We need a lot moved to plastic and a lot of old models updated. A wonky pyramid isn't what the Seraphon needed...

But, here's hoping in a couple years we'll have saurus knights riding actually scary velociraptor-like dinosaurs instead of wonky barney-beasts.


Seraphon are only lucky in that we kept most our range.

But yeah, we're...suffering.

Saurus, Skinks, Slann, Salamanders, Chameleon Skinks and Kroak all date back to 6th edition and are pushing 18 years old. (6th ed Army Book - May/June 2003)
Our next update has gone mostly OOP (the Skink Chiefs and Tehehauin) save a single 'Priest' model, Scar Vet on Cold One and the Saurus Knights. (Lustria supplement - 6th ed - May 2005)
Then our Kroxigor, Razordons, Temple Guard, the Eternity Warden and Stegadon date to the 7th ed release (7th ed army book - February 2009).
And finally 8th ed - our last true update gave up the current Terradons/Ripperdactyls, Carnosaur/Troglodon, Bastiladon and the plastic characters and remaining characters are all leftover from the 8th ed release. (8th ed army book - August 2013)

Fun fact - our Terradons have been updated with EVERY release in Fantasy. I honestly don't know why. 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th all have different Terradons. GW have a Terradon fetish it seems. (My personal favourites are the 6th ed. Terradons - I'm even using one as a mount for an Anvil of Apotheosis Skink Herald character for a friend group's narrative campaign - along with the Underworlds Priest.)

Cold Ones were updated once from 6th ed. to Lustria.

Temple Guard and Kroxigor were updated from 5th ed to 6th and then again in 7th. -2 updates.

Stegadon has one update from 5th's metal version to the plastic. It was one of GW's 'big new plastics' at the time, hyped up more than the Giant was and now it's sadly small.

The Underworlds Warband is the first 'new' Lizardmen we've seen outside of Blood Bowl for 8 years nearly!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Charistoph wrote:
The funny thing is that the Saurus Knight kits were just like a few months before the Dark Elf kits came out and those look AMAZING in comparison. Too bad it's double GW's pleasure to mix them up.


Not quite true.

Our Cold Ones date from the Lustria release during 6th edition Fantasy.

Dark Elf Cold Ones date from their 7th ed release.

There's a 3 year gap between the two.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/02 03:22:28


Post by: drbored


Sadly, it's always this way with factions that need an update but don't get it.

They suffer for long stretches of time, sometimes getting overlooked for two or three editions until finally their time comes.

When it does come, they get a full range refresh and there is much rejoicing, but UNTIL that happens, it's a lot of 'blah'.

Like, look at the new Soulblight. Nobody was talking about vampires until the vampire lord got leaked. Now, people are more worried that Cursed City is going to sell out in 3 minutes and they won't be able to get their hands on new skeletons and vampire models.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/02 10:13:45


Post by: Cronch


For many of those factions, it's just dribs and drabs not "full refresh".


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/02 10:32:22


Post by: tneva82


drbored wrote:

Like, look at the new Soulblight. Nobody was talking about vampires until the vampire lord got leaked. Now, people are more worried that Cursed City is going to sell out in 3 minutes and they won't be able to get their hands on new skeletons and vampire models.


Well soulblights had got lots of heavy rumours before. And cursed city isn't limited amount box set so at worst you have to wait for more boxes be produced. But it won't be sold out and then gone for good(this been stated by GW itself)


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/02 19:41:19


Post by: Charistoph


DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
The funny thing is that the Saurus Knight kits were just like a few months before the Dark Elf kits came out and those look AMAZING in comparison. Too bad it's double GW's pleasure to mix them up.

Not quite true.

Our Cold Ones date from the Lustria release during 6th edition Fantasy.

Dark Elf Cold Ones date from their 7th ed release.

There's a 3 year gap between the two.

I remember them being closer together for some reason. Which is why it came as such a surprise at how derpy the Saurus Knight mounts are. Could be a Mandella affect.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/05 12:18:47


Post by: Wayniac


What I am really curious about is if they'll keep the double turn. Really no other mechanic for AOS is as polarizing as the double turn.

I reconnected with some of the AOS people in my area so if there's a new edition I may try to rally the community since it's been scattered by 40k yet again which has taken over yet another FLGS. Has to be a new edition though.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/05 12:22:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Charistoph wrote:
DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
The funny thing is that the Saurus Knight kits were just like a few months before the Dark Elf kits came out and those look AMAZING in comparison. Too bad it's double GW's pleasure to mix them up.

Not quite true.

Our Cold Ones date from the Lustria release during 6th edition Fantasy.

Dark Elf Cold Ones date from their 7th ed release.

There's a 3 year gap between the two.

I remember them being closer together for some reason. Which is why it came as such a surprise at how derpy the Saurus Knight mounts are. Could be a Mandella affect.


To be honest, the plastic Saurus Cavalry look worse than the Chunky Moo Cow Cold Ones too.

They’re very blocky. And what is going on with those forelimbs?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/07 03:14:43


Post by: drbored


Wayniac wrote:
What I am really curious about is if they'll keep the double turn. Really no other mechanic for AOS is as polarizing as the double turn.

I reconnected with some of the AOS people in my area so if there's a new edition I may try to rally the community since it's been scattered by 40k yet again which has taken over yet another FLGS. Has to be a new edition though.


I'd love for it to shift to being more optional, rather than something that must be used. Missions that don't use it, missions that do.

It's just kind of a mess. Thankfully, with the ugoigo of AoS assaults, alpha strikes aren't as much of an issue as they are in 40k at the very least.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/08 23:08:56


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
The funny thing is that the Saurus Knight kits were just like a few months before the Dark Elf kits came out and those look AMAZING in comparison. Too bad it's double GW's pleasure to mix them up.

Not quite true.

Our Cold Ones date from the Lustria release during 6th edition Fantasy.

Dark Elf Cold Ones date from their 7th ed release.

There's a 3 year gap between the two.

I remember them being closer together for some reason. Which is why it came as such a surprise at how derpy the Saurus Knight mounts are. Could be a Mandella affect.


To be honest, the plastic Saurus Cavalry look worse than the Chunky Moo Cow Cold Ones too.

They’re very blocky. And what is going on with those forelimbs?


The issue is 100% with the mounts rather than the riders.

Hells, you could even argue that the heads are ok...the bodies however....the forelimbs in particular.

MY old Lizard army had a number of units of Cold Ones. By far my favourite were the old Cow One Riders...mounted on Dark Elf Cold Ones. It involves clipping and pinning...and the old Cow One Riders are a lot further forward than their plastic coutnerparts.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/19 21:49:41


Post by: Popsghostly


 Asherian Command wrote:
I hope we get a god of the Lizardmen of somekind, the fact that we don't have a main center piece character for the lizardmen is a shame. Like a Serpent creature god would be awesome.


Well looks like you got your centerpiece in Kroak. Now how does he relate to Kragnos? Odd to feature Seraphon in Belakor as faction but have Kroak in Kragnos.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/19 21:51:41


Post by: Platuan4th


 Popsghostly wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
I hope we get a god of the Lizardmen of somekind, the fact that we don't have a main center piece character for the lizardmen is a shame. Like a Serpent creature god would be awesome.


Well looks like you got your centerpiece in Kroak. Now how does he relate to Kragnos? Odd to feature Seraphon in Belakor as faction but have Kroak in Kragnos.


Kroak has a part in the Seraphon portion of Belakor's story, but looks like that was a build up to his major part in Kragnos.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/20 03:39:34


Post by: DarkStarSabre


 Platuan4th wrote:
 Popsghostly wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
I hope we get a god of the Lizardmen of somekind, the fact that we don't have a main center piece character for the lizardmen is a shame. Like a Serpent creature god would be awesome.


Well looks like you got your centerpiece in Kroak. Now how does he relate to Kragnos? Odd to feature Seraphon in Belakor as faction but have Kroak in Kragnos.


Kroak has a part in the Seraphon portion of Belakor's story, but looks like that was a build up to his major part in Kragnos.


I mean, the video for Kroak does have Morathi straight up approaching him and respectfully (well, as respectful as an Elf gets) asking for his assistance.

The Seraphon element in Be'lakor seems relatively minor - it seems that the WD Flashpoint is there to fill in the gaps and flesh it out a bit.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 15:02:40


Post by: Wayniac


Supposed 3.0 leaks from somoene who has seen the book (via someone he knows who is a playtester). Not sure of this guy's cred but apparently he leaked LRL and Sons and was correct:

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crVCn364tXk

Summary:

Spoiler:
- charge reactions are a command ability (or cost a command point/similar resource at least) and you can either get +1 to your save, move d6", or shoot at -1 to hit

- modifiers capped +/-1, including pluses to save (so new mystic shield +1 to save doesn't stack with charge reaction +1 save)

- command points changed to more like relentless discipline (ie generated each round, you can't keep any you don't spend that round)

- battalions from books no longer used in matched play (essentially they'll stop having Pitched Battle Profiles?), generic battalions in core rules (example is 'a hero and 3 battleline units')

- addressing the turn 3 priority benefit by letting the player who goes 2nd in round 3 remove an objective from the battlefield (hard to comment on this without seeing new battleplans)

- primary/secondary objectives in 40k 9th style


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 15:38:01


Post by: Kanluwen


I doubt they'll remove battalions "from matched play", but maybe they'll not be Organized Play legal.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 15:42:16


Post by: Wayniac


 Kanluwen wrote:
I doubt they'll remove battalions "from matched play", but maybe they'll not be Organized Play legal.
I mean that's basically the same thing...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 15:55:07


Post by: Kanluwen


Wayniac wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I doubt they'll remove battalions "from matched play", but maybe they'll not be Organized Play legal.
I mean that's basically the same thing...

It's not though? Organized Play is separate from Matched Play, because you can do narrative or open play tournaments too.

Matched Play exists because some people don't understand how to play things without points or how to self-moderate and need their hands held.

If they remove Warscroll Battalions from the books and add "generic battalions" though...then what the hell is the point?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:11:34


Post by: Wayniac


 Kanluwen wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I doubt they'll remove battalions "from matched play", but maybe they'll not be Organized Play legal.
I mean that's basically the same thing...

It's not though? Organized Play is separate from Matched Play, because you can do narrative or open play tournaments too.

Matched Play exists because some people don't understand how to play things without points or how to self-moderate and need their hands held.

If they remove Warscroll Battalions from the books and add "generic battalions" though...then what the hell is the point?
Yes but you know as well as I do that if something is "tournament standard" it becomes standard for everything. Even if Organized is different, as soon as tournaments say "no battalions" then "no battalions" becomes a default rule for any game using Matched Play; sure you may have the rare thing that says okay sure but all across the game the assumption is going to be battalions are not allowed.

I do find it a little odd that they'd do that, but let's face it most battalions are either unplayable garbage or stupidly OP.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:30:30


Post by: Kanluwen


Which, again, goes to "what the hell is the point?" if they're adding generic ones into the core book while invalidating the ones from the army books.

Additionally, that's why I said that organized play is a distinct entity. Someone whining that "you can't use that in matched play!" while it's specifically applicable to "organized play"? They won't have a daggone leg to stand on, RAW. And I will revel in their tears from that if it is the case. I'm absolutely sick and tired of "bUt ToUrNaMeNtS!!11!1" being used to set the standard for pick-up games. If I wanted to play in a damn tournament, I'll play in a damn tournament.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:34:17


Post by: Overread


I'd also argue that unless they are going to redo the classifications for most armies; then the battlebook ones will be too basic. There's only 4 generic slots in AoS. Leader, troop, monster and artillery.

With a lot of armies often lacking anything in artillery and a good few having monster leaders if they've got any monsters of their own.

Eg Slaanesh only has Leaders and Troops. There are no monsters (outside of leaders) and no artillery to speak of.



Of troops there's just regular and battleline so that's 5 different classifications of which 2 are only present for some armies.





That said GW new editions are often a case of "what's the point" in so much as many times they just shake things up because they can rather than because its needed.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:34:44


Post by: Wayniac


 Kanluwen wrote:
Which, again, goes to "what the hell is the point?" if they're adding generic ones into the core book while invalidating the ones from the army books.
To make you buy new books, of course lol


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:36:38


Post by: Kanluwen


 Overread wrote:
I'd also argue that unless they are going to redo the classifications for most armies; then the battlebook ones will be too basic. There's only 4 generic slots in AoS. Leader, troop, monster and artillery.

Do you mean the generic ones from the core rulebook? Because that's supposedly where the "leader plus battleline" stuff is going in.

The battlebook ones are highly specific.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:38:44


Post by: Wayniac


Honestly, I think it'd be cool if they used the classifications as they do in the GHB for the open play force generator. They won't, of course, but it would add some more variety.

Those are:

Horde = Unit of up to 20 models w/Wound of 1 and Save of 6+ or '-'

Regular = Unit of up to 10 models w/Wound of 1 and save of 3/4/5+

Elite = Unit of up to 5 models w/Wounds of 2-3

Guard = Unit of up to 3 models w/Wounds of 4-5

Linebreaker = Unit of 1 non-HERO model w/Wounds of 6-9

Gargantuan = Unit of 1 non-HERO model w/Wounds of 10+

Champion = HERO that is not a MONSTER

Conqueror = Any HERO

I assume they'd ignore the "up to X models" part since that would be based on the points. But wishful thinking anyway.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:46:26


Post by: Overread


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I'd also argue that unless they are going to redo the classifications for most armies; then the battlebook ones will be too basic. There's only 4 generic slots in AoS. Leader, troop, monster and artillery.

Do you mean the generic ones from the core rulebook? Because that's supposedly where the "leader plus battleline" stuff is going in.

The battlebook ones are highly specific.


Yeah I meant the core book ones - at least according ot the rumour


I agree the battletome ones are very specific. Though I'd argue many have a few waste ones. GW likes ot throw "this one costs 5K just in min unit costs" and " this one allies two random armies together". So sometimes not only are some weaker and some stronger; but often as not one or two are almost useless for most games .


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:47:21


Post by: Wayniac


Either way even IF they invalidate all battalions and only have the book ones, how long before they start adding them back to battletomes, thereby ruining the game's balance yet again by changing design paradigms midway through?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:48:16


Post by: Overread


I would have thought if they were taking them out then the new DoK and Slaanesh tomes wouldn't have had them in


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:50:23


Post by: Wayniac


 Overread wrote:
I would have thought if they were taking them out then the new DoK and Slaanesh tomes wouldn't have had them in
Well the current rumor seems to indicate that they just won't have Pitched Battle profiles. So they won't be "gone" technically just not valid for Matched Play. Which will make them not exist, but not by design.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:56:07


Post by: Overread


Honestly the only thing I want to move out of "matched play" is the doubleturn or turn priority as they like to brand it as


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 16:57:13


Post by: Eldarain


Wayniac wrote:
Either way even IF they invalidate all battalions and only have the book ones, how long before they start adding them back to battletomes, thereby ruining the game's balance yet again by changing design paradigms midway through?

I can definitely seeing them adding army specific alterations to the core system in the same way DE in 40k have their Patrol modifications.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/24 19:41:08


Post by: Yoid


With the simplification of battalions new battleroles may come. If the new edition comes with a General's Handbook style suplement, we will have updated point costs for every unit in the game that adapt to the new mechanics, and that chart may contain additional roles to the usual Leader/Battleline/Behemoth/Artillery. We may see others like "Elite" or "Ranged Support", and this may come into the list building limitations too. There is the rumor of max unit size being more limited too, and that comes in the same type of release.

I bet "Battalions" becomes strictly a list-building thing that affect drops, CPs and artifacts but not much more, akin to... are they called detachments? in 40k. Then the concept we have of several units sharing a bonus may be a different thing, maybe strictly narrative like the regiments of renown or maybe more integrated into the faction and sub-factions rules.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/25 07:06:55


Post by: Bosskelot


 Overread wrote:
Honestly the only thing I want to move out of "matched play" is the doubleturn or turn priority as they like to brand it as


From that video it doesn't sound like it's going, unfortunately. Just sounds like another band-aid "fix" rather than them removing a fundamentally broken un-fun mechanic or shaking up the game more and utilizing a LOTR-style turn system where the priority roll actually works.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/25 11:14:41


Post by: Wayniac


I mean a LOT of people like the double turn. Probably at least as many hate it. So I get why they keep it, even if I'm tired of it. A lot of people think it's a neat addition for some reason so at that point I think we can put any thought of it being totally removed to rest. It will have been what, 6 years of it staying in the game by then?

The only weird thing is battalions not allowed in matched play (so essentially removed from the game) and replaced with generic 40k style detachments. But given most of them are trash and only a handful good I could see it. In that case though I'm more worried it's just a hard reset and each new tome will re-add them so we end up in exactly the same situation that removing them was trying to fix.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/25 23:28:51


Post by: auticus


Welp so long as double turn remains a core part of the fun fun game experience - I will continue to look elsewhere for tabletop rules.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 01:43:35


Post by: Wayniac


 auticus wrote:
Welp so long as double turn remains a core part of the fun fun game experience - I will continue to look elsewhere for tabletop rules.
I really sympathize with you but I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out.

However it seems unlikely that it's ever going to be removed. So... I would not plan on playing AOS anytime soon if ever.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 02:25:41


Post by: auticus


Double turn is the worst rule I have ever had to play with in 30+ years of tabletop gaming. Its as bad as I'm making it out lol.

Standing there for 45 min to an hour while my opponent takes two turns back to back kicking me in the balls while I just remove models with no response allowed is about the opposite of fun as it gets.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 02:28:41


Post by: Kanluwen


Yeah, because it's so much different to when the same thing happens from an alpha-striking monstrosity army with no double turns.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 02:39:54


Post by: auticus


 Kanluwen wrote:
Yeah, because it's so much different to when the same thing happens from an alpha-striking monstrosity army with no double turns.


Alpha striking monstrosities are equally as not fun yes.

Basically boiling it down to the root complaint:

"A game that encourages you to erase your opponent while they cannot do anything to respond is not a good game to me".


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 03:44:26


Post by: Kanluwen


Or further simplifying it...

"People don't like losing without a chance to react."


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 04:13:46


Post by: Charistoph


 Kanluwen wrote:
Yeah, because it's so much different to when the same thing happens from an alpha-striking monstrosity army with no double turns.

So double alpha-striking monstrosity is not so much different than single alpha-striking monstrosity?

I'm a little confused here on this statement, unless I read the sarcasm wrong.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 06:13:51


Post by: Bosskelot


Yeah alpha strikes aren't good either, but doubling the downtime of a player in a game system that already has a lot of downtime because of IGUGO is a horrible design choice.

The double turn is the one singular thing that I've seen people bounce off of AOS super hard because of. It's gotten to the point where I think it's actively holding the game back and squandering its potential popularity. My local AOS community has basically not grown at all in the past 3 years and a big reason is that there's two camps formed; one which house-rules the double-turn out of existence and the other which doesn't. This dilutes the pool of potential opponents for people to play and it also makes the local AOS tournament scene practically dead. KoW gets bigger tournaments than AOS around here ffs.

AOS stans deep in their bubble really don't understand how unpopular it is.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 06:41:54


Post by: Mr Morden


 Overread wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I think the next but story turn for Skaven could be the female skaven. There's talk in their new Battletome of at least one coven of females in one of the major settlements banding together and using schemes to manipulate the males to their own gain. It wouldn't surprise me if at some stage one of the mighty brood mothers might try and make a bid for open power. It would certainly shake things up for Skaven to have a female rise above the ranks of a simple herd breeder and to command the teeming hoards.


I didn't realize there were female skaven that weren't mountains of bloated, mindless flesh. I'm happy to see that they shifted away from that horrible portrayal (even if only a bit?)


They are still mountains of bloated breeding flesh. They are basically injected and modified from birth to become mighty breeders. The difference is that in the Old World they were fully mindless and simply used for breeding. In AoS they are mostly like that, but there are hints of a few that might be smarter and hiding their intelligence to manipulate some skaven in the background. Right now its a story hook. A potential thread that GW could develop if they so chose. It would also be interesting to see it developed as I think that such a thing could be used to give Skaven some long term goals beyond just messing things up. Ergo suggesting that whilst the males in-fight all the time, the females are looking at the grander picture and longer term goals, whilst also being stable enough that they don't in-fight in the same way so that they don't undo their gains


Be an interesting new aspect of the Skaven - as long as we never get any "good" skaven......

There were a few unusual Skaven females even in the Old World - The Grey Seer Thratquee had a pair of heavily muscled and protective females that served as bodyguards as well as mates. Clever move really as it provided Thratquee with extra protection - very few skaven would consider females as a threat.

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thratquee

In the book the description is pretty much 10 ft tall female Sumo ratwomen


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 11:01:14


Post by: Wayniac


I would definitely not shed tears if they removed the double turn. But I've seen almost a 50/50 split on people that hate it and people that think it's fine (although to their discredit a lot of those start spouting the "it's fine you just need to git gud" argument which automatically dilutes their view). I have, however, seen a good amount of people that say the #1 reason they give AOS a wide berth is the double turn and if it was taken out they'd consider the game.

That alone tells me it's problematic. However it appears gw is paying too much attention to the top percentile, where it matters less (due to the skill and knowledge of minimizing the impact), and feels it's a unique selling point.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 11:18:14


Post by: Overread


I've still yet to see a game where someone got a doubleturn and lost; unless the doubleturn appeared very late in the game or its very clear that the two players/armies are horrifically miss-matched.


By and large the "get gud" actually just amounts to "get normal" because its normal tactics like infantry screening and the like that most suggest. The doubleturn doesn't really introduce any actual additional tactics to the game and its very nature makes it impossible to plan for because the only way to avoid your opponent getting to hurt you twice in a row is to hold back and not advance into the battlefield (which means losing in a gmae that's based on mid-table objectives more or less)

I think its only working so far because ranged and magic heavy attacks are not the prime form of combat in the game right now and close combat alternates between players during each turn. So in a close combat heavy situation people don't "see" the issue even if they get two turns defining what combats start.
I think if/as ranged attacks become more and more common more might see that a double turn can be horribly broken. Heck if Khadorans were more heavily used that alone might swing the opinion against the double turn. Ranged or magic heavy armies that can attack with impunity for two whole turns gives them insane advantage.


Plus even if you argue against the balance you can't deny that in a game where a turn takes a long time; spending twice as long before you get your go is - honestly - boring. All you can do is perhaps control 1 endless spell for a bit and roll reactionary dice. Even if its your turn to attack first in the close combat it might well be only to react to the fact that your opponent chose to charge that unit using their doubleturn.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 11:29:16


Post by: Platuan4th


 Overread wrote:

I think its only working so far because ranged and magic heavy attacks are not the prime form of combat in the game right now and close combat alternates between players during each turn. So in a close combat heavy situation people don't "see" the issue even if they get two turns defining what combats start.
I think if/as ranged attacks become more and more common more might see that a double turn can be horribly broken. Heck if Khadorans were more heavily used that alone might swing the opinion against the double turn. Ranged or magic heavy armies that can attack with impunity for two whole turns gives them insane advantage.


Aren't Lizardmen, KO, and Lumineth top dogs at the moment specifically because of their ranged and magic dominance?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 11:39:52


Post by: auticus


Wayniac wrote:
I would definitely not shed tears if they removed the double turn. But I've seen almost a 50/50 split on people that hate it and people that think it's fine (although to their discredit a lot of those start spouting the "it's fine you just need to git gud" argument which automatically dilutes their view). I have, however, seen a good amount of people that say the #1 reason they give AOS a wide berth is the double turn and if it was taken out they'd consider the game.

That alone tells me it's problematic. However it appears gw is paying too much attention to the top percentile, where it matters less (due to the skill and knowledge of minimizing the impact), and feels it's a unique selling point.


Thats what happens when you have the white knight phenomenon grown so brightly. Everything is fine, super fine, great in fact.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 12:25:31


Post by: Overread


 Platuan4th wrote:
 Overread wrote:

I think its only working so far because ranged and magic heavy attacks are not the prime form of combat in the game right now and close combat alternates between players during each turn. So in a close combat heavy situation people don't "see" the issue even if they get two turns defining what combats start.
I think if/as ranged attacks become more and more common more might see that a double turn can be horribly broken. Heck if Khadorans were more heavily used that alone might swing the opinion against the double turn. Ranged or magic heavy armies that can attack with impunity for two whole turns gives them insane advantage.


Aren't Lizardmen, KO, and Lumineth top dogs at the moment specifically because of their ranged and magic dominance?


Might be, I've not kept up since Corona started. However it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Indeed as I said it would be exactly what I'd start to expect. Which I then expect GW to fix by making close combat armies fast and faster to the point where they can hit close combat in a single turn or so - thus making ranged armies super underpowered once more


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 12:57:37


Post by: Kanluwen


 Charistoph wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Yeah, because it's so much different to when the same thing happens from an alpha-striking monstrosity army with no double turns.

So double alpha-striking monstrosity is not so much different than single alpha-striking monstrosity?

I'm a little confused here on this statement, unless I read the sarcasm wrong.

You've read the sarcasm wrong.

Whether the double turn exists or not? There will always be something that lends itself towards people doing this kind of nonsense but at least the double turn is not something you can realistically plan to have "always on" in your list.

That alpha-striking monstrosity list is always going to be just that, damn the double turn.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 13:01:31


Post by: auticus


I'd prefer a game where that kind of nonsense doesn't happen at all.

* remove the double turn
* remove the ability for armies to just point and click onto the table and erase what they want.

Make it a game, instead of having the ability to give one side a 30-0 lead and fast forward the game to the middle of the 4th quarter at kickoff.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 13:04:03


Post by: Kanluwen


Frankly, I'd rather keep the double turn seeing as how there will never realistically be a way to prevent people from making alpha striking nonsense of some variety a thing.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 13:12:26


Post by: Overread


Remove the doubleturn so that every AoS tactics/balance thread isn't consumed by it


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 13:13:51


Post by: Kanluwen


Then it would just switch to Endless Spells or Mortal Wounds or or or...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 13:23:12


Post by: auticus


 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, I'd rather keep the double turn seeing as how there will never realistically be a way to prevent people from making alpha striking nonsense of some variety a thing.


I play plenty of games that dont have alpha striking nonsense - at least to the level of 40k and aos. The rules team has to actively not put it into the game. You shouldn't be able to teleport units wherever you want and activate them, or be able to just charge across the table in one turn and do whatever you want.

But thats neither here nor there. AOS will continue to be that kind of game. A showcase of cool models but of little tactical / strategic substance.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 14:23:05


Post by: Wayniac


Which, as usual, is "good enough" for people because of the vastness of players.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 14:54:43


Post by: Kanluwen


I genuinely cannot think of any game where I have not been able to be alpha-striked out. Maybe Battletech?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 14:56:50


Post by: Wayniac


I think really alpha strike isn't even the issue, it's alpha strike combined with how deadly most Warhammer games are it results in you pretty much going from having a fighting chance to losing in one turn, more so if your opponent gets the double turn.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 14:58:48


Post by: Kanluwen


And what happens if you get the double turn but weathered their alpha strike?

Seriously, for all the bad that people talk about with the double turn--there's also the possibility to flip the script and counterpunch hard on an alpha striker list.

Frankly though, pretending that alpha strike isn't an issue really isn't applicable to my tastes. People build for that. You cannot build for the double turn, despite insistence to the contrary, unless you're running weighted dice to ensure you get it.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 15:08:06


Post by: Overread


 Kanluwen wrote:
And what happens if you get the double turn but weathered their alpha strike?



The problem is that the double turn doesn't work that way. It has no link to the actual game at all and is a simple impartial dice roll.

Some do say, in defence of the double turn, that IF you get it after your opponent hit you hard that it can rebalance the game in favour of the underdog.

However because the doubleturn has no link to the game state itself, it could equally be the case that the doubleturn takes a balanced match and turns one player into the underdog by virtue of their opponent getting the doubleturn. Heck you could weather an alphastrike and then your opponent gets a doubleturn. All those great dice rolls, all that careful moving earlier, all that positioning; everything you did to weather the alpha is thrown out because of a single dice roll.



Yes it might even an unbalanced game; yes it might unbalance a game; yes it might not happen or it might happen twice in a row or it might happen early or late game. It's disjointed to the game and unpredictable.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 15:08:36


Post by: Wayniac


Right and I think that's the issue with the double turn. You can't prepare for it, and chances are, at least early on, if you get it you win and if your opponent gets it you lose. It's a very binary thing, and it's super rare where someone doesn';t get the double turn and still manages to come out ahead.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/26 15:09:34


Post by: auticus


 Kanluwen wrote:
I genuinely cannot think of any game where I have not been able to be alpha-striked out. Maybe Battletech?


Conquest.
Warmaster.
Warmaster Ancients.
Warhammer Fantasy 5th, 6th, part of 7th
Warhammer 40k 3rd and part of 4th with the exception of the Blood Angels Rhino Rush.
Battle tech
Warlords of erehwon
Oathmark
Battlemasters.
Hail Caesar.

Those are all games I have played a ton that did not have the alpha strike levels either at all or close to the levels of modern GW game design. However I am defining alpha strike as the ability to in the beginning of the game simply end the game with no need for maneuver or positioning (ala teleporting or charging across the table turn 1). In Kings of War alpha strike exists, but its a different type of alpha strike that requires at least the opponent to maneuver into position to employ it.

Alpha strike is an intentional design direction implemented in the rules. Through GW its by allowing units to teleport onto the table and just charge and wipe out what it wants, or teleport onto the table and just open fire with all of its obscene weaponry thats now in range, or intentionally having rules that let a unit charge from its starting entry point of the game to be able to contact in one turn.

And alpha strike - like double turn - makes games intrinsically not fun to play because they are all about removing player agency and ending the game without them being able to respond.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/27 09:32:01


Post by: tneva82


 Overread wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
And what happens if you get the double turn but weathered their alpha strike?



The problem is that the double turn doesn't work that way. It has no link to the actual game at all and is a simple impartial dice roll.

Some do say, in defence of the double turn, that IF you get it after your opponent hit you hard that it can rebalance the game in favour of the underdog.

However because the doubleturn has no link to the game state itself, it could equally be the case that the doubleturn takes a balanced match and turns one player into the underdog by virtue of their opponent getting the doubleturn. Heck you could weather an alphastrike and then your opponent gets a doubleturn. All those great dice rolls, all that careful moving earlier, all that positioning; everything you did to weather the alpha is thrown out because of a single dice roll.



Yes it might even an unbalanced game; yes it might unbalance a game; yes it might not happen or it might happen twice in a row or it might happen early or late game. It's disjointed to the game and unpredictable.


And no double turn leads to so many games where you know exactly who wins after seeing army lists. More times that would have been case for me than double turn deciding game.

Only issue with double turn is with mega magic/shooting armies but that's part of issue stemming from bigger issue which is those are too dominating already. Fix those are 99% problems of double turn goes away. Then it's just learn to deal with it.

Without double turn it's basically same as 40k. Look at army lists, know who wins. At least 40k has 50-50 who goes first which gives at least some chance sometimes for other side. With AOS that doesnt' even apply so you would know who goes first by checking army lists.

When nobody has super magic/shooting that breaks the game anyway double turn isn't issue if you aren't total noob who sucks in game.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/27 15:19:05


Post by: Rihgu


Why would one "deal with it" when there's a 66% chance of "dealing with it" putting you in a disadvantageous position?
Odds are in the player who may get double-turned's favor that ignoring the chance of the double-turn will be their winning move.
Then there's also the possibility that they set up super defensively, un-crackably so, and the opponent wins priority and says "sure, you go".
Now all your defensive posturing was a literal waste! What do you do, continue the defensive? You may get double turned again! Or do you follow the odds and reach out and touch someone? Oh wow, you'd have been way better off if you just did that last turn, though.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/27 15:32:33


Post by: auticus


You houserule it out is what you do haha.



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/27 22:41:46


Post by: Wayniac


 auticus wrote:
You houserule it out is what you do haha.

but... But that's not tournament standard and teaching people to play the game wrong


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/27 22:43:15


Post by: auticus


I'm actually getting ready to move out west and there are some guys that do a lot of 9th age and even 8.5.

I felt excitement for the first time in a very long time.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/28 02:49:37


Post by: Asherian Command


So are we predicting that the big AOS announcement is 3rd edition?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/28 03:20:22


Post by: nels1031


 Asherian Command wrote:
So are we predicting that the big AOS announcement is 3rd edition?


Depends on how many more Broken Realms books there are left, I’d say. I’m not sure they’d want to kill Broken Realms hype before that series is finished.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/28 04:48:46


Post by: Asherian Command


I mean I don't know if there even will be one after Kraganos have they even hinted at that?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/28 11:16:17


Post by: Wayniac


 Asherian Command wrote:
I mean I don't know if there even will be one after Kraganos have they even hinted at that?
No, people are guessing there's more since if Kragnos was the last there would be factions untouched by the update.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/28 12:32:06


Post by: jaredb


Usually if I am going first, I'll give my opponent the double turn T2 by choice and then not have to worry about it afterwards.

I play a lot of AoS, I am not bothered by the double turn, and the only game I can think of where I lost in a tournament because my opponent got it, is one where I positioned my army poorly and would have been in a hard spot anyway.

I do like the endless spell interaction with the turn, I was pretty sad when they limited how many spells you could take, as I had heaps of fun taking 5-7 endless spells in my list.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/28 20:27:44


Post by: popisdead


drbored wrote:

Here's my prediction.


There will be changes. That's my prediction.

TBH it will change the game and I really enjoy the subsequent 6-8 months of relearning and rediscovering the game and armies. Some things will get better, some will get worse, GW will miss some pretty obvious issues in outlier armies like BoC or Wanderers that will get neglected for the entire edition.

Just like ever month or so the game will change and people will talk about it.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/29 03:56:43


Post by: ccs


popisdead wrote:
GW will miss some pretty obvious issues in outlier armies like BoC


What do you think GWs missed BoC wise?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/29 14:23:58


Post by: Asherian Command


ccs wrote:
popisdead wrote:
GW will miss some pretty obvious issues in outlier armies like BoC


What do you think GWs missed BoC wise?


That it existed


Overall I've heard some strange rumors the past few weeks.

I won't post them cause they don't seem at all trustyworthy as they come from 4chan and seem to be a meme.

Something I've heard people talk about is:

A New Stormcast chamber

Destruction as a starter with Stormcasts

New faction other than Soulblight



Thats all I can really predict?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/29 15:07:57


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Specumalation!

Also kind of rumour that’s not a rumour but might support a rumour.

The next Collector’s coin has been announced. Despite the monthly model being a Grave Guard, the coin isn’t Undead or Vampire themed....but Ghal Maraz. And apparently, it’s only available until the end of May.

All the other collector coins have related to a major release (DoK, Deathguard, Lumineth, Uriel Ventriss/BL Weekend, Slaanesh and Be’lakor, not necessarily in that exact order), so Ghal Maraz seems an oddity.

Possibly originally designed for 3rd Ed launch, and some kind of loose evidence it has indeed been delayed due to the various oddities going on?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/29 15:53:10


Post by: Kanluwen


We know Kragnos has the two Witch Hunters coming.

Also, the BL coin doesn't count towards the releases apparently.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/29 15:56:03


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Well, bums.

Oh well. Still getting my sixth on Saturday regardless.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/29 21:24:30


Post by: popisdead


Asherian Command wrote:
ccs wrote:
popisdead wrote:
GW will miss some pretty obvious issues in outlier armies like BoC


What do you think GWs missed BoC wise?


That it existed



This is pretty much it. I feel since 2004 BoC have only existed to sell cool models and lore-wise be fodder for Chaos armies advancing and needing to die in droves so when the good guys die it isn't lop sided.

Random examples: 7th ed: lacked a FAQ for Herds to rank up 5-wide for the smallish +2CR
8th ed: fired Andy Hoare for leaking rules and playtest while writing and Phil Kelly was told to "Fix" the army
End Times: Gave them Marks!, you could actually field a Khorne Bray Shaman, then ended the world 8 months later so you didn't get much time playing with the army you bought, built and were painting...
AoS 2: seriously,.. they removed things that were good (Doombull Cmd Ability, Gors stacking Attacks), and left crap (Beastlord cmd ability)... I should say though they have the best terrain piece in the game... so,.. there is that.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/30 08:01:06


Post by: DarkStarSabre


popisdead wrote:
8th ed: fired Andy Hoare for leaking rules and playtest while writing and Phil Kelly was told to "Fix" the army


Don't you love it when a book has someone else brought in to fix it? It's happened plenty of times in 40k before - see also Cruddace's 5th ed Tyranids and Gav Thorpe's 4th ed CSM Codex - both noted for being remarkably bland mono-build armies which stripped away all the flexibility and utility of their predecessors (not everyone was running Siren Daemon Princes y'know or Iron Warriors).

Looking at them, BoC just...don't pop out. There's no big fancy gimmick they can pull off particularly well. Skaven have all sorts of tricks and gimmicks and can be themed rather well, the individual God books, StD and even the redone Legion of the First Prince have neat little tricks and Beasts seem...so vanilla.

Everything they do someone else does far better.

Numbers of infantry? Skaven or Gloomspite.
Monsters? Seraphon or Ogors.

Want to do combat heavy? Khorne, Seraphon and Orruks all exist. Want to play sneaky ambushes? Sylvaneth exist and even LoN have the gravesite rules...

There really isn't anything beyond their aesthetic.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/04/30 12:36:10


Post by: jaredb


Beasts of chaos have great theme and models, just that the warscrolls are weak.

The Brayherd stuff is amazingly fast, but doesn't hit well, Dragon Ogres are cool, but only do 1dmg on their attacks. The Warheard stuff hits hard, but is expensive and fragile.

They are sort of designed to be a fast glass hammer sort of army, but just lacks the hammer. Most of the monsters are pretty lack-luster too. They just need an army-wide buff to really get things going.

I do like them as an army though, they have a cool summoning mechanic and their terrain has a very useful debuff. The subfactions have very interesting rules.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 17:13:24


Post by: TangoTwoBravo


AOS 3rd Edition confirmed on GW stream. New Stormcasts confirmed as well as a new race. Double turn staying around.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 18:47:52


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I was a bit worried before, definitely concerned now. They talk about 'pulling the rules apart' and 'adding a bunch of new stuff' and I am just thinking that AoS simply doesn't need that. The 2nd edition rules are fun and work well with only a few rough spots. They need a few patches, not a complete rehash. Here's hoping it's more hype rhetoric than changes-for-the-sake-of-changes.

Sounds like they want to keep the double and so are giving additional bonuses to the person going second to nerf it. I am down for that in theory, we'll have to see how it works out in practice. The question remains if they put something in the way of shooting armies just obliterating the enemy with a double.

The 'core battalions' concept from the leak (where was that originally posted anyways?) looks to be confirmed.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 18:52:06


Post by: Rihgu


Depending on how 3.0 works out this double turn stuff, might just stick to 2.0 with double turns houseruled out.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 18:59:13


Post by: nels1031


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The 'core battalions' concept from the leak (where was that originally posted anyways?) looks to be confirmed.


This is where I first heard of it, after seeing it referenced on Twitter( battalions at 8min mark or thereabouts):




AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 20:00:16


Post by: Wayniac


Literally primaris stormcast.

They look cool af though. I'm stoked. I had sold my AOS stuff some time ago as there wasn't interest. Went to my LGS today which is starting to get it going, and they are doing a slow grow June 8th. With Kragnos and the rumored 3.0 destruction maybe hobgoblins (swamp goblins?) I decided to go all in on destruction and start Ironjawz for now.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 20:30:03


Post by: Ghaz


I would doubt that it will be hobgoblins unless they're a part of the Chaos Dwarf battletome...



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 20:39:02


Post by: Grimskul


Yeah, as far as I know, hobgoblins have never been their own standalone army. Makes more sense to do Grotbag Scuttlers.

The biggest change I'm hoping they add to AoS 3.0 is some way of handling the spike in shooting armies right now, they simply have no real counterplay besides hiding behind terrain especially with the double turn in effect.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 21:15:23


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Wayniac wrote:
Literally primaris stormcast.
As seems to be the trend this past year AoS is doing what I wish 40k that--the new Stormcast are an advancement in equipment with armour that has new capabilities while the eternals themselves are the same. Imagine if Primaris had been 'only' a new mark of armour & gear instead of super-extra-marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, as far as I know, hobgoblins have never been their own standalone army. Makes more sense to do Grotbag Scuttlers.

The biggest change I'm hoping they add to AoS 3.0 is some way of handling the spike in shooting armies right now, they simply have no real counterplay besides hiding behind terrain especially with the double turn in effect.
Terrain with LoS blocking that flyers ignore, no less...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 21:30:50


Post by: Grimskul


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Literally primaris stormcast.
As seems to be the trend this past year AoS is doing what I wish 40k that--the new Stormcast are an advancement in equipment with armour that has new capabilities while the eternals themselves are the same. Imagine if Primaris had been 'only' a new mark of armour & gear instead of super-extra-marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, as far as I know, hobgoblins have never been their own standalone army. Makes more sense to do Grotbag Scuttlers.

The biggest change I'm hoping they add to AoS 3.0 is some way of handling the spike in shooting armies right now, they simply have no real counterplay besides hiding behind terrain especially with the double turn in effect.
Terrain with LoS blocking that flyers ignore, no less...


Yeaaaah, I have no idea what they were thinking when they released the Lumineth 2.0 book. I guess they were fans of the Last Airbender?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 21:57:42


Post by: Overread


Lets face it "pull the rules apart and start again" is basically what GW does with every rules release. It's why they never really manage to polish their rules perfectly because they are always tinkering with them.

That said the new Slaanesh and Daughters of Khaine battletomes haven't really presented many new things within them save that full unit discounts are gone (which honestly is a good thing as it frees up army building to consider more minimum or middle weight units not just always going for full squads for the discount).

Then again they also have battalions which sound like they are being done away with (or battletome ones moved to the open play only region).


I'm sad that they are so keen to make the doubleturn part of the game, then again perhaps if they make it part of the game this time around it might become more fun. Right now in 2.0 its not really part of the game as such, its just there as a thing that can happen and almost always hands whoever gets it a win (or makes it very hard to lose).

If it becomes part of the game and if opponents might have something to do (besides react roll) then it might be more fun.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 22:15:38


Post by: Asherian Command


Wayniac wrote:
Literally primaris stormcast.

They look cool af though. I'm stoked. I had sold my AOS stuff some time ago as there wasn't interest. Went to my LGS today which is starting to get it going, and they are doing a slow grow June 8th. With Kragnos and the rumored 3.0 destruction maybe hobgoblins (swamp goblins?) I decided to go all in on destruction and start Ironjawz for now.


No where even close to Primaris Stormcast. Primaris were jsut better space marines. Stormcasts just had different equipment for different jobs, akin to Phobos Pattern Armor vs Tacticus Power Armor


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/08 23:17:09


Post by: Overread


I also wonder if GW is going to be really grim dark with them too. Talking about how they basically erupt with a storm when killed they might be a unit players are encouraged to, sacrifice. Charging them to a situation they can't win, so that they die and blow up their target instead!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 00:30:07


Post by: Cronch


1 MW on 6+ per dead boy, if GW's current track record with making stormcast the pillowfists of AoS holds


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 06:52:28


Post by: FrozenDwarf


 Asherian Command wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Literally primaris stormcast.

They look cool af though. I'm stoked. I had sold my AOS stuff some time ago as there wasn't interest. Went to my LGS today which is starting to get it going, and they are doing a slow grow June 8th. With Kragnos and the rumored 3.0 destruction maybe hobgoblins (swamp goblins?) I decided to go all in on destruction and start Ironjawz for now.


No where even close to Primaris Stormcast. Primaris were jsut better space marines. Stormcasts just had different equipment for different jobs, akin to Phobos Pattern Armor vs Tacticus Power Armor


ehhh, i think we have to compare the official scrolls when that time comes, it is hard to NOT see this as a 40k primaris move whitout seeing the rules.

Personly, im just glad i am a Gitz collector =)


On the topic of the new edition, i was realy hoping that double turns would be removed, no amount of "buffs or benefits" can change the big posetive impact getting two turns in a row has for the player the gets it.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 07:04:15


Post by: NinthMusketeer


If the double turn came with a penalty of -3 to hit, wound, save, run, charge, casting, and unbinding rolls I think that would more than compensate, so the theory is there.

I'd actually give a solid 30% odds they overcorrect and make taking a double worse than not.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 09:52:38


Post by: Cronch


Ok, but...how are these primaris when sacrosanct exist and make every single non-sequitor profile (that isn't vanguard raptor) redundant? We literally had stormcast+ in 2018.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 10:44:04


Post by: Wayniac


Cronch wrote:
Ok, but...how are these primaris when sacrosanct exist and make every single non-sequitor profile (that isn't vanguard raptor) redundant? We literally had stormcast+ in 2018.
Yet funnily enough liberators are better right now


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 11:54:07


Post by: Cronch


Are they? Last I checked they just dumped their points, but did nothing to make them worth taking beyond filling out the core tax.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 12:15:44


Post by: nels1031


Cronch wrote:
Are they? Last I checked they just dumped their points, but did nothing to make them worth taking beyond filling out the core tax.


Stormkeep armies from Broken Realms: Morathi kicked up Liberators a notch, supposedly.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 12:16:48


Post by: Cronch


Ah, so specific sub-allegiance in dlc, didnt it just improve their save?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 12:34:19


Post by: Eldarsif


I am super stoked about the new Stormcast, but it does feel like GW will have to split the Stormcast tomes into multiple tomes just to keep some of the older units relevant. It is beginning to feel a lot like units are stepping over each other's toes.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 12:39:40


Post by: Overread


 Eldarsif wrote:
I am super stoked about the new Stormcast, but it does feel like GW will have to split the Stormcast tomes into multiple tomes just to keep some of the older units relevant. It is beginning to feel a lot like units are stepping over each other's toes.


At the same time I really hope they don't do that. I think it would send the wrong message through the system and through the game. Also its one thing to have a bloated single army, its another to have multiple armies based off the same design concepts. A bloated army can be broken down into internal sub-groups much like Skaven are. You can run them all in one, or run clan focused forces. They don't need their own book to achieve that and work better as a single book because then the single army approach is internally balanced.

I see that being how Stormcast will end up, a single force but with several key subgroups within their tome, but no separate tomes.

I think that's healthier for the game than going the Space Marine pathway. Even if its a very lucrative earning pattern, it has some huge downsides. My impression is that the design and marketing team want AoS to be FAR more varied and evenly spread as a selling game. They don't want all their customers in one faction, they want them spread out so that their investments into each individual army generate a healthy return on investment; rather than having one doing a lions share. It also makes for a happier market because different customers get what they want. With 40K there's a continual griping about "marines getting everything" which can sour the mood and can even sour marine players because they end up in clubs with fewer and fewer "aliens" to fight.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 12:59:26


Post by: Amishprn86


 Eldarsif wrote:
I am super stoked about the new Stormcast, but it does feel like GW will have to split the Stormcast tomes into multiple tomes just to keep some of the older units relevant. It is beginning to feel a lot like units are stepping over each other's toes.


Nah I think they can keep is all 1 book and if they were smart have "vaults" you pick you are out of being better at different things and playstyles which old in some and new on others, or for battalions you have to take a bit of both. Also the new ones might not have Battleline, if that is the case it really doesn't matter how good they are, you still need battlelines.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 13:51:33


Post by: ERJAK


 FrozenDwarf wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Literally primaris stormcast.

They look cool af though. I'm stoked. I had sold my AOS stuff some time ago as there wasn't interest. Went to my LGS today which is starting to get it going, and they are doing a slow grow June 8th. With Kragnos and the rumored 3.0 destruction maybe hobgoblins (swamp goblins?) I decided to go all in on destruction and start Ironjawz for now.


No where even close to Primaris Stormcast. Primaris were jsut better space marines. Stormcasts just had different equipment for different jobs, akin to Phobos Pattern Armor vs Tacticus Power Armor


ehhh, i think we have to compare the official scrolls when that time comes, it is hard to NOT see this as a 40k primaris move whitout seeing the rules.

Personly, im just glad i am a Gitz collector =)


On the topic of the new edition, i was realy hoping that double turns would be removed, no amount of "buffs or benefits" can change the big posetive impact getting two turns in a row has for the player the gets it.


That means these would be what...the 3rd set of primaris stormcasts right? 'Different armor=Primaris' happened with Vanguard and Sacrosanct too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
I am super stoked about the new Stormcast, but it does feel like GW will have to split the Stormcast tomes into multiple tomes just to keep some of the older units relevant. It is beginning to feel a lot like units are stepping over each other's toes.


At the same time I really hope they don't do that. I think it would send the wrong message through the system and through the game. Also its one thing to have a bloated single army, its another to have multiple armies based off the same design concepts. A bloated army can be broken down into internal sub-groups much like Skaven are. You can run them all in one, or run clan focused forces. They don't need their own book to achieve that and work better as a single book because then the single army approach is internally balanced.

I see that being how Stormcast will end up, a single force but with several key subgroups within their tome, but no separate tomes.

I think that's healthier for the game than going the Space Marine pathway. Even if its a very lucrative earning pattern, it has some huge downsides. My impression is that the design and marketing team want AoS to be FAR more varied and evenly spread as a selling game. They don't want all their customers in one faction, they want them spread out so that their investments into each individual army generate a healthy return on investment; rather than having one doing a lions share. It also makes for a happier market because different customers get what they want. With 40K there's a continual griping about "marines getting everything" which can sour the mood and can even sour marine players because they end up in clubs with fewer and fewer "aliens" to fight.


The problem with Stormcasts right now is that they can't continue to function without wholesale rewrites GW seems reluctant to do. The last 2 battletomes were absolutely abysmal in terms of internal balance and led to bland, flavorless cookie cutter builds. Yunno...once the incredibly obvious exploitable wordings and multiple just straight up typos got fixed because those books also had the worst QC of any book up until the DoK/Slaanesh second editions.

The warscrolls at least from Vanguard and earlier needed to be totally redone to both fit modern AoS (Tempestors having an anti-shooting bubble roughly the size of a marble for example is horrendously pathetic rules writing) and keep stormcast from continuing to feel like 4 different armies superglued together.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 19:19:58


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Stormcast work fine conceptually, a few small tweaks to profiles and better point cost balance would set them up to be both well rounded (within the context of elite) and extremely diverse with numerous niche builds possible.

Ah, what could be if GW really cared about balance.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/09 23:54:29


Post by: jaredb


I wonder if we could see stormcast gain an extra wound? Be more of an elite force.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 07:36:01


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


I'm hyped about the new Stormcast Hoplites, there going straight into my Cities of Sigmar army to shieldwall behind my Dwarfs!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 14:24:03


Post by: auticus


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Stormcast work fine conceptually, a few small tweaks to profiles and better point cost balance would set them up to be both well rounded (within the context of elite) and extremely diverse with numerous niche builds possible.

Ah, what could be if GW really cared about balance.


The eye opener for me over the past five or so years is that the PLAYER BASE in general doesn't really care about balance either.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 15:40:08


Post by: Ghaz


4 Things You Need to Know About the Next Edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar on Warhammer Community:

The New and Improved Path to Glory

Warhammer Age of Sigmar has always been a very narrative-driven game, and while the existing rules allow you to follow a champion as they amass glory points and fight for domination, the new edition will expand the campaign system even further.

We’ll have much more information about this narrative game mode coming in the future, but for now, those players who have experienced a Crusade in Warhammer 40,000 might be able to imagine some of the developments your campaign forces will go through on their path to glory.

The Age of Sigmar website has a timer counting down to Saturday the 29th of May. Perhaps the pre-order date for 3rd edition.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 16:34:52


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


I suspect that's more likely a full reveal of the box. 3 weeks from reveal to pre-order sounds way too fast.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 17:10:17


Post by: Kanluwen


 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I suspect that's more likely a full reveal of the box. 3 weeks from reveal to pre-order sounds way too fast.

We literally just had the vampire dragons revealed last Monday and they go up next week.
Whatever happens, happens right now.


Additionally, it might not be the starter sets. We could be in for another Indomitus styled event.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 18:21:48


Post by: tneva82


Indomitus was hyped for well over month. 40k 9e announced may, released in july


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 18:26:00


Post by: Mr Morden


but your existing battletomes will work just as well as they always have.


Well thats not a lie....but....


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 18:33:24


Post by: auticus


 Mr Morden wrote:
but your existing battletomes will work just as well as they always have.


Well thats not a lie....but....


Yeah. you may have to ... buy a new army because your existing battletome is now super weak


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 20:01:18


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


I believe each edition of AoS has been released the Week of July 1st so I imagine thats when it will drop. So most likely we'll see it Saturday July 3rd.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 20:53:13


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I suspect that's more likely a full reveal of the box. 3 weeks from reveal to pre-order sounds way too fast.

We literally just had the vampire dragons revealed last Monday and they go up next week.
Whatever happens, happens right now.


Additionally, it might not be the starter sets. We could be in for another Indomitus styled event.


It's only three weeks away and we haven't even had Kragnos yet. No way they're dropping them on top of each other. And besides, Adam said look for news in the coming weeks and months. It'll be July/August. I'd take bets on it.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 21:18:22


Post by: Kanluwen


Yeah, and AdMech were "too close to talk about" during Warhammerfest...yet Kragnos, the dragon-lady, and now the SoB High Lord have all been talked about in more detail than the supposedly lone Mechanicus model.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 22:10:01


Post by: Platuan4th


Wayniac wrote:
Literally primaris stormcast.

They look cool af though. I'm stoked. I had sold my AOS stuff some time ago as there wasn't interest. Went to my LGS today which is starting to get it going, and they are doing a slow grow June 8th. With Kragnos and the rumored 3.0 destruction maybe hobgoblins (swamp goblins?) I decided to go all in on destruction and start Ironjawz for now.


Hey, not to fully de-rail the thread, but would you mind PMing me what store is starting the slow grow? Going to be moving to Tampa in a couple months and would love to know where to sniff out AoS play as soon as I get settled.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/10 22:30:07


Post by: Voss


 Ghaz wrote:
4 Things You Need to Know About the Next Edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar on Warhammer Community:

The New and Improved Path to Glory

Warhammer Age of Sigmar has always been a very narrative-driven game, and while the existing rules allow you to follow a champion as they amass glory points and fight for domination, the new edition will expand the campaign system even further.

We’ll have much more information about this narrative game mode coming in the future, but for now, those players who have experienced a Crusade in Warhammer 40,000 might be able to imagine some of the developments your campaign forces will go through on their path to glory.

The Age of Sigmar website has a timer counting down to Saturday the 29th of May. Perhaps the pre-order date for 3rd edition.

Doubtful. more likely the big reveal of the opposing faction and a general look at the box contents.
There is a backlog of stuff.

At the very least they're going to push through vampires, more vampires and Ad Mech and then Kragnos, and after that probably sisters (which at this point is a multi-week release) and probably book of fire. And also various boxed games releases. And then we can start flipping for AoS3 or Ork special box. (I lean toward the latter since the 'real' ork release is later, so alternating makes sense).

Plus it makes no sense to be this cagey and (trying to) build hype about the 'mystery faction' if they're just going to drop the thing off like a bad pizza at the end of the month.
They want some momentum to the edition launch. July/August as is fairly typical.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 04:48:19


Post by: drbored


Every time I make a prediction on -when- things are going to be released, I get proven wrong.

So, y'know what? I don't think any of us have a clue. Yes we are due Admech and another wave of vampire models and Kragnos, but for all we know Admech could be pushed to August and they could reveal the foes in the new starter box for AoS this weekend!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 06:04:28


Post by: lare2


Anyone care to make and predictions on 3.0 based on what we can see in the new Soulblight book? One thing's becoming clear, hordes are going the way of the dodo.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 06:13:02


Post by: BlackoCatto


 lare2 wrote:
Anyone care to make and predictions on 3.0 based on what we can see in the new Soulblight book? One thing's becoming clear, hordes are going the way of the dodo.


Im assuming all my old skeletons (and grave guard) and my zombies are pretty much out the window. Christ, this doesn't look good for me.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 06:48:19


Post by: lare2


 BlackoCatto wrote:
 lare2 wrote:
Anyone care to make and predictions on 3.0 based on what we can see in the new Soulblight book? One thing's becoming clear, hordes are going the way of the dodo.


Im assuming all my old skeletons (and grave guard) and my zombies are pretty much out the window. Christ, this doesn't look good for me.


Skellies are max 30, as are GG. Zombies are max 40. Zero point discounts for taking max. No incremental benefits the more you take as well.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 06:51:40


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Before they literally cost less points for units that were already more points efficient so it feels a little like karmic justice. And still worthwhile thanks to the army's ability to return whole units.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 06:56:27


Post by: lare2


Tbh, I'm a fan if they do cut back on hordes... if only so that my back hurts less when playing.

Skellies in 20s look like decent objective holders. GG and zombies are pretty solid going forward.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 18:57:01


Post by: BlackoCatto


 lare2 wrote:
 BlackoCatto wrote:
 lare2 wrote:
Anyone care to make and predictions on 3.0 based on what we can see in the new Soulblight book? One thing's becoming clear, hordes are going the way of the dodo.


Im assuming all my old skeletons (and grave guard) and my zombies are pretty much out the window. Christ, this doesn't look good for me.


Skellies are max 30, as are GG. Zombies are max 40. Zero point discounts for taking max. No incremental benefits the more you take as well.


Man that sucks.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/14 19:25:08


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Heh, not getting to exploit the rules to get hyper efficient units DOES suck doesn't it...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 10:13:52


Post by: Chikout


The removal is horde discounts is absolutely the correct thing to do. Hordes have an inherent advantage due to the core mechanic of capturing objectives. The horde discount is one of the most blatant money grab rules I've ever seen from gw. I would also be happy to see the average army size shrink back to what it was in 1st edition.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 10:40:00


Post by: Overread


Horde discount wasn't really a money grab; it was more a case that it pushed you toward using full units and not using split up units. So you'd use 30 warriors in a block every time instead of 10, 10, 10 or 10, 20 etc... Same number of models, just different unit compositions.

It meant hordes weren't just beneficial because of numbers, but because of price as well which limited your army building options. Now that the discount is gone it means that we can now use different numbers of units in squads without punishment.

This opens up a lot more tactical options for armies being more free to take multiple minimum unit squads and such.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 11:16:06


Post by: Cronch


Good. Hordes make the game objectively worse to play, no one likes bullet sponges, and unlike video games you have to move the bullet sponges by hand...
I am pleasantly surprised by the Soulblight book, I hope it heralds what things will be like in 3rd ed. Hordes being less of a thing, summoning toned down (but not as useless as 1st ed), and named characters all count as generals in addition to your normal general in their appropriate bloodline, so you don't miss out on general traits/artifacts.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 11:45:10


Post by: Overread


I don't think full units make the game worse nor better. I think it varies so much army to army that its good that discounts are no longer punishing some forces and tactical options.

Eg Skaven you'd expect to still be taking big units of clan rats because of their stats; however Stormcast or Ossiarchs with much more elite style troops; now have far more options to split up full units so that they can use their forces in a different way.

It also opens up more options for sacrificial and distraction units. Eg having a few min-unit forces so that you can send them in small waves against a powerful character. Meaning that the character keeps getting stuck in combat with those units, but can't wipe out the whole lot in one or two turns because its all separate targets and separate fights each time.



I'd also argue that the game would benefit from a more spongy approach to battle. One weakness of a GW system is that they often like big damage dealers so that you wipe off units from the table with a huge round of combat (doubly so iwth the doubleturn in AoS). This removes some of the push and shove struggle of a proper battle and can make things very alpha heavy. Having units that act more as a sponge is a good thing because now the battle lasts more than that one alphastrike turn


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 14:22:48


Post by: Cronch


A unit of 5 dudes with 20 wounds each is easier to field (not everyone has 8x4 table at home) and provides the same amount of wounds as a blob of 100 models. There is nothing about big blobs of 1W models that is fun, satisfying or not just a waste of your limited time on earth. They take forever to move, forever to pile in and forever to resolve. I've conceded games before when I had to wait for my enemy to move his 80 models in the 3rd turn of the game,2hrs in...


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 15:26:44


Post by: lare2


Cronch wrote:
A unit of 5 dudes with 20 wounds each is easier to field (not everyone has 8x4 table at home) and provides the same amount of wounds as a blob of 100 models. There is nothing about big blobs of 1W models that is fun, satisfying or not just a waste of your limited time on earth. They take forever to move, forever to pile in and forever to resolve. I've conceded games before when I had to wait for my enemy to move his 80 models in the 3rd turn of the game,2hrs in...


Don't forget they take forever to paint as well. I've played a variation of death horde since AoS 1.0. 3.0 for me is all about elite.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 15:32:33


Post by: tneva82


Cronch wrote:
Good. Hordes make the game objectively worse to play, no one likes bullet sponges, and unlike video games you have to move the bullet sponges by hand...
I am pleasantly surprised by the Soulblight book, I hope it heralds what things will be like in 3rd ed. Hordes being less of a thing, summoning toned down (but not as useless as 1st ed), and named characters all count as generals in addition to your normal general in their appropriate bloodline, so you don't miss out on general traits/artifacts.


Not objectively. Subjectively. You don't like it? Tough. You aren't ultimate decider what's fun and what's not. Don't like that? Tough.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 15:52:56


Post by: Cronch


Yes, but also you're wrong on all accounts.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 16:28:01


Post by: NinthMusketeer


He is objectively correct in pointing out you made a subjective argument.

Anyways, at the time horde discounts were introduced the game had a heavy slant towards elite units being stronger and it was a clear move to counteract that. They have gotten more refined in its application since but have been phasing it out for several battletomes now.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 16:43:05


Post by: Elmir


What my predictions are (also after seeing the soulblight book):

1)CP generation might be tied to your heros (see RDP with OBR) and possibly your general... With tons of multi generals in SGL, so that might play into that new mechanic.

2) generic Command Abilities getting a rework (charge reactions, defensive boosts etc), but insane bravery being removed... Just a gut feeling as I'm sure the dev team isn't happy that battleshock is so irrelevant now.

3) horde bonus gone. Buffs based on unit size gone.

4) more armies getting named characters as generals in their "correct subfactions"... Like I said, with possible CP bonus.

5) generic battalions also giving you extra CP per turn.

6) General points increase for everything --> see 40k. This massively speeds up the game because all their cool rules for special dice triggers, seperate dice pools etc REALLY slowed down tht game.

7) Seraphon and LRL hopefully taking a nerf bat straight to the teeth!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/15 17:18:58


Post by: ERJAK


 lare2 wrote:
 BlackoCatto wrote:
 lare2 wrote:
Anyone care to make and predictions on 3.0 based on what we can see in the new Soulblight book? One thing's becoming clear, hordes are going the way of the dodo.


Im assuming all my old skeletons (and grave guard) and my zombies are pretty much out the window. Christ, this doesn't look good for me.


Skellies are max 30, as are GG. Zombies are max 40. Zero point discounts for taking max. No incremental benefits the more you take as well.


Counteracted by their new mortal wound output and heavy duty buffing potential still leaving them pretty much the most efficient options in the book.

What else are you gonna take? Terrorgheist? Don't make me laugh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Elmir wrote:
What my predictions are (also after seeing the soulblight book):

1)CP generation might be tied to your heros (see RDP with OBR) and possibly your general... With tons of multi generals in SGL, so that might play into that new mechanic.

2) generic Command Abilities getting a rework (charge reactions, defensive boosts etc), but insane bravery being removed... Just a gut feeling as I'm sure the dev team isn't happy that battleshock is so irrelevant now.

3) horde bonus gone. Buffs based on unit size gone.

4) more armies getting named characters as generals in their "correct subfactions"... Like I said, with possible CP bonus.

5) generic battalions also giving you extra CP per turn.

6) General points increase for everything --> see 40k. This massively speeds up the game because all their cool rules for special dice triggers, seperate dice pools etc REALLY slowed down tht game.

7) Seraphon and LRL hopefully taking a nerf bat straight to the teeth!


I hope they give up on the whole 'battleshock isn't important enough!' thing. Battleshock as a mechanic only works as something you expend resources to avoid facing. If you actually routinely lose models to it it's pretty fething terrible.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 15:36:31


Post by: BlackoCatto


LRL probs do need a nerf. Sooo many MW.

Though I'm not happy hordes are gone as I always like playing Undead with big Hordes of models.... now, looks like Ill have to say goodbye to them and not play them which for me sucks.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 15:37:59


Post by: Rihgu


Are hordes gone or do they just not get discounts?
Or is even that a Soulblight Gravelords thing because every horde is potentially infinite models (start at 40, then continuously resurrect at 20)?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 15:42:27


Post by: Kanluwen


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
He is objectively correct in pointing out you made a subjective argument.

Anyways, at the time horde discounts were introduced the game had a heavy slant towards elite units being stronger and it was a clear move to counteract that. They have gotten more refined in its application since but have been phasing it out for several battletomes now.

The second there were horde discounts for Elves or Stormcast, the arguments in favor of it as a mechanic were dead.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 15:48:39


Post by: Overread


Hordes are by no means gone, they are simply different to what they were before. With no discount for a full unit you are not pressured into taking full units like you were before.


This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option. For forces like Skaven it might not make a huge difference as thye will still want nice big unit blocks; for armies like Ossiarchs it might make a huge difference as now they can take multiple smaller units for the same cost as one big unit.



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 18:41:12


Post by: ccs


 Overread wrote:
This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option.


It was always an option. And one each player should've been evaluating based upon what they intended to be doing with the unit.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 18:45:41


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Yes, but the option was generally minimum size or maximum.

That said, there is no nuance on the internet so this is either nothing or hordes are dead; pick one


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 18:54:22


Post by: Overread


ccs wrote:
 Overread wrote:
This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option.


It was always an option. And one each player should've been evaluating based upon what they intended to be doing with the unit.


The thing was if you took two units of 20 you paid more in points than one unit of 40. So you were generally either going for minimum units for the battleline requirements for the least cost because then you had to have at least X number for the value of the game. Or you were aiming for full units as much as you could because you paid less in points which means you have more to spend on other things.

Removing the point saving feature means that you can take two units of 20 or one unit of 40 and they cost the same. Thus you can make your choice based on the units stats, your situation and the play style you are going for. Basically it removes a cost choice from the equation and makes it more of a tactical choice.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 20:13:36


Post by: auticus


I think its still a false choice that makes itself for you.

Given 1 unit of 40 or 2 units of 20, if there are no mechanical benefits to having 40 models in a unit, it is almost always going to be better to have the ability to split the unit into two so that it can operate independently.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 20:39:55


Post by: ccs


 Overread wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Overread wrote:
This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option.


It was always an option. And one each player should've been evaluating based upon what they intended to be doing with the unit.


The thing was if you took two units of 20 you paid more in points than one unit of 40. So you were generally either going for minimum units for the battleline requirements for the least cost because then you had to have at least X number for the value of the game. Or you were aiming for full units as much as you could because you paid less in points which means you have more to spend on other things.


If I'm taking two units of 20 I'm doing so because I have a reason/plan. It doesn't likely involve BL requirements and saving pts is not a consideration. It's a calculation of survivability & utility. And sometimes there's reasons beyond what can be expressed by the games math. Same goes for when I opt for a full maxed out unit. There's a reason. That I save some pts is merely a perk/oddity of AoS, it's never been a deciding factor for me.

 Overread wrote:
Removing the point saving feature means that you can take two units of 20 or one unit of 40 and they cost the same. Thus you can make your choice based on the units stats, your situation and the play style you are going for. Basically it removes a cost choice from the equation and makes it more of a tactical choice.


Quit spewing BS at me.
No matter how the pts are distributed you're always making a same tactical choices: How many units & why, how large & why. Do I spend the points on x or on y? What does this unit do for me?



AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 21:46:49


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 auticus wrote:
I think its still a false choice that makes itself for you.

Given 1 unit of 40 or 2 units of 20, if there are no mechanical benefits to having 40 models in a unit, it is almost always going to be better to have the ability to split the unit into two so that it can operate independently.
Unless the core command abilities change there will always be mechanical benefits to having one big unit over two smaller ones, regardless of army or game size. To say nothing of the many, many, buffs and incentives littered across the battletomes to do so. It is more of a choice now, because a mid-size unit is viable where before it was not. Even inherently with alternating units in combat there is a mechanical advantage for melee units to be one big blob as it can go all at once.

I am actually surprised you would be critical of this point anyway as a proponent of alt activation, because that very much favors min-and-max size units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ccs wrote:
 Overread wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Overread wrote:
This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option.


It was always an option. And one each player should've been evaluating based upon what they intended to be doing with the unit.


The thing was if you took two units of 20 you paid more in points than one unit of 40. So you were generally either going for minimum units for the battleline requirements for the least cost because then you had to have at least X number for the value of the game. Or you were aiming for full units as much as you could because you paid less in points which means you have more to spend on other things.


If I'm taking two units of 20 I'm doing so because I have a reason/plan. It doesn't likely involve BL requirements and saving pts is not a consideration. It's a calculation of survivability & utility. And sometimes there's reasons beyond what can be expressed by the games math. Same goes for when I opt for a full maxed out unit. There's a reason. That I save some pts is merely a perk/oddity of AoS, it's never been a deciding factor for me.
What armies do you play? There are a number where the horde discount was never particularly relevant anyways.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/17 23:52:49


Post by: Yoid


 auticus wrote:
I think its still a false choice that makes itself for you.

Given 1 unit of 40 or 2 units of 20, if there are no mechanical benefits to having 40 models in a unit, it is almost always going to be better to have the ability to split the unit into two so that it can operate independently.


But there are mechanical advantages for both min and max. If you run a blob of 40 you can attack with 40 models first, and there won't be much enemies to respond. If you attack with two units of 20 you only activate 20 models first, then the enemy goes and remove some of your not-activated 20, and then you get to go with your weakened remaining unit. On the other hand, while split in two units you can go to two places at the same time, and you can use them more effectively as a screen because wounds don't spill from one unit to the other if it is overkilled, neither do battleshock loses.

So mostly big units are better for the offense and small units for the defense. There are exceptions, like base sizes and range of attack profiles making small units a good choice in the offense, or using some abilities to buff the defense of a big unit as a whole. I clarify this because i don't want to start talking about certain choices being meaningless in certain warscrolls because the good choice is too obvious. Im simply saying that the mechanical nuances to make the choice matter exist within the system.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/18 00:12:36


Post by: Overread


ccs wrote:


 Overread wrote:
Removing the point saving feature means that you can take two units of 20 or one unit of 40 and they cost the same. Thus you can make your choice based on the units stats, your situation and the play style you are going for. Basically it removes a cost choice from the equation and makes it more of a tactical choice.


Quit spewing BS at me.
No matter how the pts are distributed you're always making a same tactical choices: How many units & why, how large & why. Do I spend the points on x or on y? What does this unit do for me?



I never said the tactical choices weren't present when choosing what to put in your army.

However I did say that they'd removed the point discount being part of the choice. If you're taking two or three troop units at full capacity that's a nice chunk of saved points that might pay for a leader or a support unit or something else. If that discount is no longer there then that choice is no longer there; therefor how big your units are is resting solely on the other factors.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/18 09:51:35


Post by: tneva82


 Overread wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Overread wrote:
This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option.


It was always an option. And one each player should've been evaluating based upon what they intended to be doing with the unit.


The thing was if you took two units of 20 you paid more in points than one unit of 40. So you were generally either going for minimum units for the battleline requirements for the least cost because then you had to have at least X number for the value of the game. Or you were aiming for full units as much as you could because you paid less in points which means you have more to spend on other things.

Removing the point saving feature means that you can take two units of 20 or one unit of 40 and they cost the same. Thus you can make your choice based on the units stats, your situation and the play style you are going for. Basically it removes a cost choice from the equation and makes it more of a tactical choice.


Of course functionality of 2x20 and 1x40 isn't same. In many ways 2x20 is superior choice. Funny enough superior choice usually tends to cost more.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/18 14:19:27


Post by: auticus


I am actually surprised you would be critical of this point anyway as a proponent of alt activation, because that very much favors min-and-max size units.


I've been doing alt activation games and versions of AOS using alt activatoin for many years and haven't gone the min or max route very often.

I'm not super critical over it. I dont think AOS lends itself to being a very good large model-count game.

It is to me best at a slightly higher than kill team level - a marvel superhero style game if you will.

Moving 40 models in a unit individually both sucks for the person moving them and sucks for the person standing there watching them move them.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/18 22:31:48


Post by: ERJAK


 auticus wrote:
I am actually surprised you would be critical of this point anyway as a proponent of alt activation, because that very much favors min-and-max size units.


I've been doing alt activation games and versions of AOS using alt activatoin for many years and haven't gone the min or max route very often.

I'm not super critical over it. I dont think AOS lends itself to being a very good large model-count game.

It is to me best at a slightly higher than kill team level - a marvel superhero style game if you will.

Moving 40 models in a unit individually both sucks for the person moving them and sucks for the person standing there watching them move them.


AoS doesn't function at all at less than 1000 points. It's not even a game really, it's pushing models to the center of the table and making pew pew noises. There's a reason they keep making new rulesets for less than 1000 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
 Overread wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Overread wrote:
This means hordes aren't going away, but it means that options outside of putting all your models into fewer units, is now an option.


It was always an option. And one each player should've been evaluating based upon what they intended to be doing with the unit.


The thing was if you took two units of 20 you paid more in points than one unit of 40. So you were generally either going for minimum units for the battleline requirements for the least cost because then you had to have at least X number for the value of the game. Or you were aiming for full units as much as you could because you paid less in points which means you have more to spend on other things.

Removing the point saving feature means that you can take two units of 20 or one unit of 40 and they cost the same. Thus you can make your choice based on the units stats, your situation and the play style you are going for. Basically it removes a cost choice from the equation and makes it more of a tactical choice.


Of course functionality of 2x20 and 1x40 isn't same. In many ways 2x20 is superior choice. Funny enough superior choice usually tends to cost more.


2x20 is almost never the superior choice. With AoS's generous coherency rules and emphasis on overlapping buffs, singular large units are almost always better than multiple medium sized units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 auticus wrote:
I think its still a false choice that makes itself for you.

Given 1 unit of 40 or 2 units of 20, if there are no mechanical benefits to having 40 models in a unit, it is almost always going to be better to have the ability to split the unit into two so that it can operate independently.


This mostly shows that you don't really play sigmar. There are massive benefits to running a single large unit over 2 smaller units.

I used to run 20 blood sisters all the time pre nerf and people who didn't know the game would say things like 'oh you'll never get them all in combat with the same unit!' Why would I want to? What unit in the entire game could have survived 20 fully buffed pre-nerf blood sisters? I used that 20 girl unit to kill 2 or 3 units across at least 2 objectives while maintaining range on my buff auras.

I was always confused about the horde bonus because if you know what you're doing, a single large 7nit can do the work of an equal number of MSU models while saving on drops and fighting in a single acfivation.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/19 16:35:34


Post by: Cronch




AoS doesn't function at all at less than 1000 points. It's not even a game really, it's pushing models to the center of the table and making pew pew noises.

Which is the same as with 2000 points, just takes less time. None of the rules interactions change, you just see better how simple they really are.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/20 07:18:42


Post by: NinthMusketeer


And as we know, games of AoS are solely putting models on the table and looking up how their rules interact

Similarly, chess would be the same level of complexity with half the pieces!


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/20 14:15:10


Post by: auticus


Well that and also I wasn't referring to point sizes either.

You can make 2000 point armies in AOS that are very small model count. And I've lived in two cities now where the local groups love that.

Also most of the 2000 point games I played were rushing to meet in the middle line making pew pew noises.

Thats the allure of the game.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/29 19:57:28


Post by: Ghaz


A bit of a taste of the new rules in the 'The Best Ruleset Ever' video in the 'Unboxing Dominion' article on Warhammer Community. Most interesting are that Monsters have abilities to use in the Charge phase and Reactive Command Abilities in every phase of the game.




AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/29 22:45:23


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Reactive command abilities have my hopes up. Even if the execution is faulty for now it exists means it can be improved on, and it is a good facet to have in the game.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/30 11:24:14


Post by: Wayniac


Those new orruks are amazing. Looking forward to the new edition


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/30 13:12:55


Post by: Chikout


 auticus wrote:
Well that and also I wasn't referring to point sizes either.

You can make 2000 point armies in AOS that are very small model count. And I've lived in two cities now where the local groups love that.

Also most of the 2000 point games I played were rushing to meet in the middle line making pew pew noises.

Thats the allure of the game.


It really is amazing how much I disagree with this post. AoS is an objective based game. I’ve played many games and watched hundreds more online and it almost never involves what you describe. Are you ignoring the battleplans? They are fundamental to the way the game plays. This is something that I thought was obvious by this point.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/30 17:05:45


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Auticus has a local community stuffed with TFGs, so his personal Warhammer experience is the thin end of the bell curve. Given the natural human tendency to project one's personal experience out as representative, that is where he gets his notions of AoS as a whole.

We've tried to explain that the broader community isn't really like that but I think his local WH community is so relentlessly TFG it is hard to get through. On a lighter note, some of the quotes he has from those guys are absolutely hysterical.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/31 12:20:04


Post by: Cripple X


I'm curious if the new Thunderstrike Stormcast Eternals will have rules to reflect their new armor and their ability to return to Azyr to be reforged or if they will just leave that in the background and not reflect it mechanically.

I guess I am just wondering how strong of a distinction they will draw between the new Thunderstrike Stormcast Eternals and the previous Warrior, Vanguard, Extremis, and Sacrosanct chambers.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/31 14:32:57


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I am betting a MWs when they die mechanic.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/31 14:56:48


Post by: Kanluwen


I'm wondering if it might be that the fallout from Be'lakor and his shenanigans leaves the "old" Stormcast more vulnerable to morale while the new ones don't have the same issues?


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/31 15:15:03


Post by: Arbitrator


 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm wondering if it might be that the fallout from Be'lakor and his shenanigans leaves the "old" Stormcast more vulnerable to morale while the new ones don't have the same issues?

That would make sense. Knowing I'm going to be tortured for the foreseeable eternity if I snuff it would put a damper on my willingness to run out and die. I still think they'll get pumped up alongside the others though, unless GW really wants to push you buying the new stuff and pretend Old Marines are a thing of the past.


AoS 3rd Edition Predictions @ 2021/05/31 17:33:16


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Battleshock doesn't just represent models running away (despite the blurb in the core rules) but also includes crumbling or just being overwhelmed by the tides of battle. It isn't like zombies are turning and running off after all!