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Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 00:40:58


Post by: Tycho


I looked for this topic already and didn’t see it, but It’s been a few weeks since I was on here so apologies if it was covered and I missed it.

My question is pretty simple - are you currently planning on getting the new campaign books? I ask because one of the biggest negative criticisms of 8th (even amongst people who loved 8th) was things like Psychic awakening and the two Vigilus books. Personally, I was really hoping we had seen the end of that type of pay-wall for match play rules. I was really hoping the books would be true campaign books with special rules specific to that campaign and legal only for open and narrative play. Looks like it will have those as well, but I’m loathe to give GW money for this as I’d rather see them move away from this type of “update”, so it will probably be a pass from me, and if this kicks off a trend of a lot of books in the same vein, that will probably put my group off of 9th. We’ll likely just move back to 8th for a while or shelve 40k for a bit.

Curious what you all think?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 00:44:21


Post by: Gert


I like reading lore books so I'll probs nab it for the story and to try any missions it has.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 01:21:14


Post by: Voss


Nope.

Pretty much everything about the sales model they're going with hacks me off.

It doesn't change any of my opinions about the edition, just that I have no particular reason to chase the latest handful of pages of DLC content, in an overpriced, thin and fairly content-less book.

I'd rather have a single extra codex and battletome done this year than half a dozen war zone and 'broken realms' books.

If I want a 'lore' or narrative book, I'll pick up something from black library. The $60 paywall is way too high for 30-odd pages of a random campaign that amounts to nothing. 'Planet Steve is under attack and concludes inconclusively!' got old more than 20 years ago.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 01:24:26


Post by: Daedalus81


Voss wrote:
Nope.

Pretty much everything about the sales model they're going with hacks me off.

It doesn't change any of my opinions about the edition, just that I have no particular reason to chase the latest handful of pages of DLC content, in an overpriced, thin and fairly content-less book.

I'd rather have a single extra codex and battletome done this year than half a dozen war zone and 'broken realms' books.

If I want a 'lore' or narrative book, I'll pick up something from black library. The $60 paywall is way too high for 30-odd pages of a random campaign that amounts to nothing. 'Planet Steve is under attack and concludes inconclusively!' got old more than 20 years ago.


A similar no here. I don't mind the narrative stuff, but I just don't use it enough and if my army were in it I would not spring for it. I don't mind paying more for stuff not made in China, but this still seems like too much if it is made in the UK.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 01:30:10


Post by: TangoTwoBravo


Looks at book shelf with Vigilus and obsolete Psychic Awakening books...Pass on Charadon...


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 01:35:18


Post by: Tycho


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Voss wrote:
Nope.

Pretty much everything about the sales model they're going with hacks me off.

It doesn't change any of my opinions about the edition, just that I have no particular reason to chase the latest handful of pages of DLC content, in an overpriced, thin and fairly content-less book.

I'd rather have a single extra codex and battletome done this year than half a dozen war zone and 'broken realms' books.

If I want a 'lore' or narrative book, I'll pick up something from black library. The $60 paywall is way too high for 30-odd pages of a random campaign that amounts to nothing. 'Planet Steve is under attack and concludes inconclusively!' got old more than 20 years ago.


A similar no here. I don't mind the narrative stuff, but I just don't use it enough and if my army were in it I would not spring for it. I don't mind paying more for stuff not made in China, but this still seems like too much if it is made in the UK.


Exactly. My group actually plays narrative and match play, and if this had been a really well focused book with all those pages lovingly devoted to a cool story (like some of the better I:A books) with really unique and fun campaign specific rules we’d have probably been psyched. But to keep repeating the thing that invariably makes each edition unwieldy and problematic (namely the whole “your army’s rules are in these 12 seperate locations thing ...) is an issue for us. Hopefully this is just a once or twice a year occurrence and not the start of the 9th Ed “bloating”.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:02:43


Post by: Castozor


A big no from me. Crusade play hasn't picked up here because we prefer to wait until all players have their new codex. For GW to then go and say: actually some armies get double plus new crusade rules over other armies because they got a campaign book on top of their codex does not sit right with me. Which then leaves fluff and matched play rules. I was thoroughly underwhelmed with the PA fluff and if worst comes to worst I can just look it up on Lexicanum. So I'm looking at a 40 euros-ish investment for 4 pages of rules for my army. Rules which look pretty lackluster and leave me unable to play half my models. So again, this is a hard pass for me. It holds next to no value for me, and frankly I consider it a slap in the face to a bunch of players who haven't even gotten a codex for their faction at the moment even as mine gets a DLC/update 2 months after my Codex dropped.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:24:57


Post by: PenitentJake


People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.

Personally, I'd WAY rather have a campaign cycle every year that releases some new content for every faction- a model or two, a handful of new rules or whatever. And once enough campaign cycles go by, there's a reason to reprint the dex. No edition reset necessary.

Lately, a lot of folks have praised AoS design, creativity and release schedules, which they see as better than 40k. But weren't Morathi and her crew released as part of a story? Isn't the big Teclis thing dropping this weekend also part of an ongoing story? I don't play AoS, so I genuinely don't know... But a lot of their stuff seems to be connected to a narrative.

I think that supplements and Armies of Renown work better than specialist detachments; they don't have the same weight. I also thing the dexes are getting to be strong enough on their own that the additional content truly is "optional." It is certainly true that some of the PA content was mandatory, and I can see how that turned folks off.

I will definitely be picking up these books. I've seen summaries of the rules for the Cult of Strife supplement- now I want to read the flavour of it; some of the relics are named after the Cultists who use it, and now I want to know more about those Cultists; I know we aren't getting datasheets for them, but they can still be interesting modelling projects.

As for the Crusade Mission Pack... Well, I'm a Crusade cheerleader, so it goes without saying.

I highly recommend the Goonhammer review of the BoR. It will help any fence-sitters figure it out.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:34:14


Post by: Tycho


People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.


It doesn’t HAVE to be that way though. We actually have seen them change course in response to lack of demand. I’m not one to call for overly dramatic boycotts or anything like that, but if the community stops buying these, they will walk away from them. 8th edition, the return of the regular White Dwarf (after the horrific weekly run version) are some notable examples.

I’d be more open to campaign books if they were either more limited, and prioritized for AFTER everyone has their dex, OR if they are going to be a regular thing and contain match play rules, make ‘em cheaper, make ‘em paperback, OR just release them as what they are. Actual true campaign books that are focused on the campaign, tell a cool story, have fun missions and special rules, but don’t apply to anything outside of that campaign. I think part of the issue is that so far, since 8th, their “campaign supplements” have worked poorly as both “campaigns” and as “codex supplements.”


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:36:47


Post by: BlackoCatto


No


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:42:55


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


You mean the Day 1 DLC that people have shunned other games for? feth no I won't buy it. I know a bunch of you will do so anyway so it gives GW excuse to keep doing this gak anyway.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:43:47


Post by: yukishiro1


No, the value proposition is even worse than for the usual GW book. Stuff like day-1 $60 DLC for Drukhari (or pre-LC for ad mech and presumably knights) is just too blatant, I can't in good conscience support that level of milking. I think it is moving in exactly the wrong direction. They should be reducing barriers to entry by moving to a free or much lower cost rules model, not cranking up the cost of the rules even more.





Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 02:51:59


Post by: Midnightdeathblade


I hate the idea that my $50 codex is incomplete a few weeks or months after release. Very reminiscent of certain video game companies. Model DLC just feels bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wow I didnt even realize this book has Dark Eldar stuff in it, lmfao thats actually the greediest gack I've seen in awhile.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:16:22


Post by: PenitentJake


Tycho wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.


It doesn’t HAVE to be that way though. We actually have seen them change course in response to lack of demand. I’m not one to call for overly dramatic boycotts or anything like that, but if the community stops buying these, they will walk away from them.


But that's my problem. Because then in another 2-3 years- edition reset and the whole damn thing starts over again. Including the non-stop grind of rereleasing ALL of the Space Marines from their half of the starter box before anyone else gets a thing.

What I'm saying is I'll buy all the campaign books to prevent another @$#*ing edition, because I hate edition resets more than campaign books, and I believe edition resets are more responsible for "Have" and "Have not" armies than campaign books are. I think campaign books could be the key to a persistent edition. They provide a way for GW to drive a release schedule without reinventing the same wheel that we've used on 9 different bikes.

GW knows they screwed up PA; they tried to use it to deliver a patch to the game, but the patch that was needed was big enough that they couldn't get it done. In the end, not only did they have to reset the edition to pull it out of the fire, the attempt to use PA as patch maligned the concept for everyone.

That's why these books are different; Armies of Renown and the sub-faction supplements are so narrow in focus that they don't upset the rest of the game. They provide interesting options to really focus in on the sub-factions of particular armies in ways that have previously only been available to a very small and exclusive set of factions. I believe that Eldar had a book or two once upon a time about specific Craftworlds; I think in the same era there were one or two for specific Regiments of the Guard. And then, of course, the Marines. But that's it. Now everyone can get a taste.

And it only deals with a single subfaction in your dex, and it doesn't modify, it merely adds. This is how it avoids invalidating your Codex. I will agree that doing this WHILE the Codex cycle is still in full swing is bad optics, and I do understand the concerns. I think that GW decided it was worth the risk because they need to make sure they've got the recipe right before they have to use it to drive releases without the Codex cycle as a back-up plan.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:17:11


Post by: bullyboy


No, value too low.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:28:17


Post by: yukishiro1


They haven't even got the initial codexes out yet, so I dunno how this can be spun as "this is instead of 10th edition." From where I'm sitting, it seems more like "this is instead of actually releasing 9th edition books for everybody. Have some more deathguard rules, that's what everyone was crying out for!"


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:40:15


Post by: Voss


PenitentJake wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.

I don't regard any of this as content though. A brief narrative, some vague campaign thing, and a couple back-of-the napkin lists of traits/strats/relics/whatever for a couple factions that likely won't last a year or two. That's just junk. They do more with White Dwarf on occasion, and that is a really low bar to clear.

What I'm saying is I'll buy all the campaign books to prevent another @$#*ing edition, because I hate edition resets more than campaign books, and I believe edition resets are more responsible for "Have" and "Have not" armies than campaign books are. I think campaign books could be the key to a persistent edition. They provide a way for GW to drive a release schedule without reinventing the same wheel that we've used on 9 different bikes.

You are, respectfully, entirely wrong. Buying campaign books doesn't do a single blessed thing to _prevent_ another edition, it keeps this hamster wheel spinning. Like Vigilus and PA, all this 'stray content' has to be folded back in to real books sooner rather than later. And then those need to be replaced and a new edition has to happen so more can... yeah. It just keeps going.

All you really convince GW of by buying this shlock is that they should keep selling all the things- campaign books, new codexes, new editions and more. Faster and faster, just dump it out, because people will buy it regardless of any perceived or real value.

If you really want the editions to stop spinning, you need to convince GW to release _fewer_ books, not more. Give things time to breathe.

And it only deals with a single subfaction in your dex, and it doesn't modify, it merely adds.

Yes.. and in terms of game design, 'merely adding' still tilts balance. Its one of the problem of space marines. They have so many options 'added,' they can cover all the bases. Horizontal progression (rather than vertical) still adds power choices. There are more options to min/max with, so it becomes easier to do.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:42:19


Post by: Tycho


PenitentJake wrote:
Tycho wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.


It doesn’t HAVE to be that way though. We actually have seen them change course in response to lack of demand. I’m not one to call for overly dramatic boycotts or anything like that, but if the community stops buying these, they will walk away from them.


But that's my problem. Because then in another 2-3 years- edition reset and the whole damn thing starts over again. Including the non-stop grind of rereleasing ALL of the Space Marines from their half of the starter box before anyone else gets a thing.

What I'm saying is I'll buy all the campaign books to prevent another @$#*ing edition, because I hate edition resets more than campaign books, and I believe edition resets are more responsible for "Have" and "Have not" armies than campaign books are. I think campaign books could be the key to a persistent edition. They provide a way for GW to drive a release schedule without reinventing the same wheel that we've used on 9 different bikes.

GW knows they screwed up PA; they tried to use it to deliver a patch to the game, but the patch that was needed was big enough that they couldn't get it done. In the end, not only did they have to reset the edition to pull it out of the fire, the attempt to use PA as patch maligned the concept for everyone.

That's why these books are different; Armies of Renown and the sub-faction supplements are so narrow in focus that they don't upset the rest of the game. They provide interesting options to really focus in on the sub-factions of particular armies in ways that have previously only been available to a very small and exclusive set of factions. I believe that Eldar had a book or two once upon a time about specific Craftworlds; I think in the same era there were one or two for specific Regiments of the Guard. And then, of course, the Marines. But that's it. Now everyone can get a taste.

And it only deals with a single subfaction in your dex, and it doesn't modify, it merely adds. This is how it avoids invalidating your Codex. I will agree that doing this WHILE the Codex cycle is still in full swing is bad optics, and I do understand the concerns. I think that GW decided it was worth the risk because they need to make sure they've got the recipe right before they have to use it to drive releases without the Codex cycle as a back-up plan.


I get what you’re saying, and I agree that campaign books could be a good way to extend the edition, but to me, Charadon feels a lot more like PA than it really should. You make a good point that the match play rules are additive rather than a redo, but this fits way too comfortably in the “PA” mold for me. Like another one of those books where it is going to do everything average to below average, but be very expensive in the process and start the bloat cycle all over again.

I’d just rather they get the codexes out, then start doing stuff like this. That, or at least make it a little more logical. Like “Hey! We know you “xyz” army players are suffering w/old rules, and that your codexes are still a ways off yet, but hey! Here’s a campaign book w/new rules to help get you by until then. Although in this case it’s also fair to assume COVID has buggered up the schedule so who knows.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:45:08


Post by: cody.d.


Mmm, maybe? I dunno. Maybe if one of the later books has something for my primary army, the greenskins. Sadly the PA books were a little meh in regards to content. A quick bit of fluff, some blubs and then some okay rules stuff. It could have been better.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:45:52


Post by: yukishiro1


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't buy GW printed material for 40k in the first place, yet this one seems worse somehow.

Maybe it's the price. Maybe it's the ultra-low page count for said price. Maybe it's because it contains rules for an army that got their Codex pre-order on the same day.

No, wait, it's all of those reasons.


Yeah, it's a real "greatest hits reel" for all the scummy ways you can rip people off.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:47:24


Post by: ccs


Like all GW stuff beyond Main Rulebook + the Codex I'll need, these books fall into the Maybe/Maybe not category.
It depends upon if I decide the content is worth it/something I need.

This volume?
Additional stuff for Dark Eldar - so what. I don't play DE. I've no interest in them at all.
Additional stuff for Admech + Knights = maaaybe? I've built two Knights & some Admech stuff just because I liked the models. Will be the inspiration to finally field them?
I'm a bit more interested in seeing this "Armies of Renown" stuff.

Next volume??



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:48:17


Post by: Argive


Bloat for the bloat god.

Its a big no for me.
Even if it was for my faction, id still refuse on principle. Just like any other future publications. Enough is enough.

The content is just not worth it and expecting people to pay £35 for 4 pages of rules is beyond ludacris. Not to mention most people still cant even play the blimmin game...


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:49:31


Post by: Voss


Tycho wrote:

I’d just rather they get the codexes out, then start doing stuff like this. That, or at least make it a little more logical. Like “Hey! We know you “xyz” army players are suffering w/old rules, and that your codexes are still a ways off yet, but hey! Here’s a campaign book w/new rules to help get you by until then. Although in this case it’s also fair to assume COVID has buggered up the schedule so who knows.


It did, but not that way. The book order of DG->DA->DE was definitely intended before the schedule got fethed. Ad Mech are next in April, so that still tracks. This book was intended to be alongside or shortly after those books (I do suspect it wasn't originally intended to come out BEFORE Ad Mech).

The only real question mark is knights, and well, whatever. They could just do us all a favor and toss those 5-6 (or whatever) datasheets into the Ad Mech book, as a separate but related subfaction, like the abhumans and stormtroopers are for guard.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 03:56:49


Post by: ccs


PenitentJake wrote:
[
What I'm saying is I'll buy all the campaign books to prevent another @$#*ing edition, because I hate edition resets more than campaign books, and I believe edition resets are more responsible for "Have" and "Have not" armies than campaign books are. I think campaign books could be the key to a persistent edition. They provide a way for GW to drive a release schedule without reinventing the same wheel that we've used on 9 different bikes.


LOL....

I hope you aren't too surprised/disappointed come about 2024* when you're buying your new 10th ed book.



*I'd have said 2023, but I figure the disruptions of 2020/21 have bought us a year.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 04:03:48


Post by: Tycho


ccs wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
[
What I'm saying is I'll buy all the campaign books to prevent another @$#*ing edition, because I hate edition resets more than campaign books, and I believe edition resets are more responsible for "Have" and "Have not" armies than campaign books are. I think campaign books could be the key to a persistent edition. They provide a way for GW to drive a release schedule without reinventing the same wheel that we've used on 9 different bikes.


LOL....

I hope you aren't too surprised/disappointed come about 2024* when you're buying your new 10th ed book.



*I'd have said 2023, but I figure the disruptions of 2020/21 have bought us a year.



I don’t think he literally means this specific book is going to help with that. Just that they COULD help. Other game systems have done this to extend editions, and 40k could too. I don’t think they will, and more often than not, their campaign books and codex supplements end up being a partial CAUSE of a new edition, but again, they COULD be used that way.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 04:20:18


Post by: Eldarain


I don't see them pushing an edition back. They've settled in to the start of fiscal cash influx every three years for their flagships.

Last 4 editions between them have all been 3 years and they didn't adjust being right in the midst of Covid last summer. With them announcing the Broken Realms books all the way to book 4 already I see them pushing AoS 3.0 out this summer on schedule.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 04:48:34


Post by: ArcaneHorror


TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Looks at book shelf with Vigilus and obsolete Psychic Awakening books...Pass on Charadon...


This. The fluff looks interesting, but the stuff for the Death Guard just looks a bit too restricting for me at the moment. The codex that I have right now is perfectly fine for my needs, and on top of that, I don't need more clutter in my place.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 05:46:38


Post by: Togusa


Tycho wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.


It doesn’t HAVE to be that way though. We actually have seen them change course in response to lack of demand. I’m not one to call for overly dramatic boycotts or anything like that, but if the community stops buying these, they will walk away from them. 8th edition, the return of the regular White Dwarf (after the horrific weekly run version) are some notable examples.

I’d be more open to campaign books if they were either more limited, and prioritized for AFTER everyone has their dex, OR if they are going to be a regular thing and contain match play rules, make ‘em cheaper, make ‘em paperback, OR just release them as what they are. Actual true campaign books that are focused on the campaign, tell a cool story, have fun missions and special rules, but don’t apply to anything outside of that campaign. I think part of the issue is that so far, since 8th, their “campaign supplements” have worked poorly as both “campaigns” and as “codex supplements.”


Honestly, I think someone should. I plan on Boycotting these books and I've asked others in my area to do so with a lot of good success in convincing them. This kind of stuff is absurd, my PA books never even saw any play before they were obsolete.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 05:51:45


Post by: Audustum


If they have rules for one of the armies I like + are competitive, sure, as long as we aren't near an edition change.

I wish they'd move to a subscription model though -and- go back to letting me buy digital only. I'm less inclined to play multiple factions when my shelves are cluttered with physical books.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 05:54:32


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


I think I'll get the mission book. Scenarios are always nice, it's cheaper and a book is much more convenient to handle in game than a Phone. The big book I'd get if it was cheaper. But just to have the fluff in german and for two pages of rules? Nah...


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 06:03:59


Post by: Spoletta


These kind of books are an horrible idea.
My wallet will cast his big no vote.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 06:08:12


Post by: yukishiro1


Threads like this give me some hope that there is a point past which even a very easy-going frog cannot be boiled before it starts kicking up a fuss. One of the best things that could happen to GW would be is if these books end up as huge flops and it causes them to reconsider this "ever more rules, for ever more money" model.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 06:58:41


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


If the book does end up selling poorly, I can just picture GW taking that as "nobody cares about these factions" as opposed to "our customers don't care for this low-value product".

Wouldn't stop me from not buying it, even if it did have rules for an army I play.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 07:04:25


Post by: AngryAngel80


Hell no, someone has to make a stand on this. The first one is way too expensive for such a small amount of buff. I don't like the direction it pushes things and bringing back formations by any other name isn't a practice I condone.

This needs to stop, the burn and churn of op books to print money is a blight to the game itself and leads to a self fulfilling prophecy of needing new editions at break neck speeds because they are literally burning out the edition themselves with all the rules bloat.

The best thing I didn't buy, was most of the PA books. Only one I got was for the Guard and I at least got a few games in with it. They've actually stopped me from buying a new codex every time it drops, now I just get it if I have plans on using the army next. Which I don't think is the feeling they want to give people.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 08:08:24


Post by: Dai


Campaign books should probably be narrative play only stuff plus fluff but they understandably want to sell as many as they can and organised play players will rightly feel a bit ripped off.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 08:14:55


Post by: harlokin


I bought it. I play Drukhari, and two of my friends play AdMech and Death Guard, so there is a fair amount of overlap. I'm really interested in the Crusade stuff, and how the three player battles work.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 08:20:11


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Thanks for reminding me. Love a bit of new campaign fluff.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 08:22:37


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


If it had been purely 95 pages of 40% fluff and 60% cool narrative campaign missions, mechanics and crusade rules (also cities of death terrain rules, planet strike and so on) then I would of leapt for it.

But as the book stands, looking at the contents page its a hard pass from me and about 90% plus of my local hobby group.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 09:28:44


Post by: Eldarsif


PenitentJake wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.


The edition resets are here to stay and both AoS and 40k seem to have the three year cycle set in stone at this point. So I'd rather just live with that fact(and get cool starter minis) than having the edition reset AND 10-15 campaign books per edition. Especially when they are not going to be providing digital releases anymore.

To OP: I will not be buying the Book of Rust. It's too expensive for what we get.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 09:46:11


Post by: Huron black heart


Someone else has already said it and I fully agree, I won't pay for printed material from GW. An edition or so ago I fell for it and bought a supplement (it had Kharne on the cover) and didn't even get one game in with it before it became obsolete.
If they insist on releasing this sort of thing couldn't they just put it in White Dwarf, which would slightly justify buying that.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 10:43:06


Post by: Fergie0044


A big no from me.

My two main 40k armies are Death Guard and Ad Mech, so you'd think this would be an easy buy for me, but I will not support this day 1 DLC style of rule splitting that GW is trying. Its too expensive for what it is, the matched play rules here should instead be in the codexs and I don't care about the lore/narrative stuff.

I've seen too many of my 40k books invalidated within a year lately to buy anymore of these from GW.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 11:23:34


Post by: Jidmah


So, I actually gave the book a good read (watched a preview video), and gave it careful consideration whether I want it, ignoring the entire implication of how and when it released.

So what's in it?

- A large amount of fluff in a similar quality as the previous campaigns. Meaning below novel, above codex quality. About 40 pages that are nice to have but not that important to me
- Actual campaign rules! And not just some wishy-washy stuff where they tell you to do whatever feels right, some actual help, resources and a definition of a Campaign Master role. 8 pages of interest
- Unique campaign loot requisitions. This is cool if you are playing this campaign with your crusade force, allowing you to opt into gear, relics and other things you will get no were else. Cool idea for more "your guys" feel. 5 pages of interest.
- Legendary Missions. These are some seriously creative and interesting missions for narrative play, better than most of the narrative missions GW has done so far. My main criticism of those is that they only put three of those in the book. 3 Missions for an entire campaign? Come on. 6 pages of interest.
- A bunch of rules of six different factions. I am lucky enough to play one of them, so I can revolve an entire army around poxwalkers. Yay? 4 pages of interest.
- Death Guard specific crusade rules. Seriously, what are those doing in this book? I guess 2 pages of interest.

So a total of 19 pages of cool narrative stuff in the narrative campaign book, and 6 pages of optional add-on to my death guard codex which is still lost in customs, for a total of 25 pages or valuable, unique content for me.
Just for comparison, the 2020 tournament rules booklet has 27 pages of unique content and has the entire basic rulebook in neat A5 format included.

The book just tries to do too many things at once and ends up doing none of them right.
If the book dropped the whole "army rules" section and was just more of the campaign stuff, I'd totally have bought it at full price. If it were a cheaper book like the crusade or tournament mission packs, I also might have bought it. If it gave multiple armies of renown/supplements for each of the factions, it might be worth buying. I'm not too sure how much content a lesser supplement like salamanders or imperial fists has, but I'd wager it's more than 3-4 pages, and they are half the price.
But as it is, there is just too little worthwhile content for too much money, and the whole "day one DLC" feel doesn't exactly help it.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 11:38:47


Post by: Nazrak


PenitentJake wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.

I mean, there's literally nothing to indicate that it's an either/or thing at the moment.

I've not bought any books bar the main rulebook since the advent of 9th – there's been no opportunity to use them, so I'm taking advantage of the game being in a sort of weird between-8th-and-9th limbo to catch up on my painting. Once I've something approaching got a full army of something painted and actually playing games is back on the cards where I live, then I'll probably pick up the relevant Codex but I can't be arsed with all the rules-stacked-on-top-of rules stuff; didn't bother with Vigilus or PA, and I won't be bothering with these either.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 11:44:04


Post by: Slipspace


PenitentJake wrote:
People are either going to have to get used to content being release by campaign books, or be resigned to the fact that GW has to blow up the entire game with an edition reset.


What? GW releasing campaign books and non-Codex content has absolutely no bearing on whether we get a new edition or not. If you genuinely think buying these books will somehow change GW's approach to edition
churn I have a bridge you might be interested in.

As for buying the Charadon book, it's a hell no from me. I have a DE army and it annoys me no end they put extra DE content in a book released the same day as the Codex. Yes, yes, I know the apologists will be quick to point out this is because the release schedule is messed up. It still wouldn't be OK to do it within a few months of a Codex being released. The value proposition in this book is so tiny for me there's just no way to justify it. I'd much rather see GW do a bigger supplement with more material for every army. Then I might consider it as a one-off with all the content in one place. Chasing this endless train of tiny pieces of content just doesn't seem worth anyone's time.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 11:49:45


Post by: Jidmah


You really shouldn't be buying it for matched play DE content, no matter what. There are literally three pages of content for you in it.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 11:57:50


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


 Jidmah wrote:
You really shouldn't be buying it for matched play DE content, no matter what. There are literally three pages of content for you in it.


Agreed! I wish they add a feature on the app you can pay like... £2 for the 4 pages of Deldar rules from the book separate.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:00:11


Post by: Not Online!!!


Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
You really shouldn't be buying it for matched play DE content, no matter what. There are literally three pages of content for you in it.


Agreed! I wish they add a feature on the app you can pay like... £2 for the 4 pages of Deldar rules from the book separate.


Why are you promoting this "eaistic" behaviour and encouraging them to double down on it with such suggestions?


For me, a HARD no.

And overall, GW shouldn't be surpised that there will be more and more blackflags beeing hoisted.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:06:47


Post by: Tyel


Slipspace wrote:
As for buying the Charadon book, it's a hell no from me. I have a DE army and it annoys me no end they put extra DE content in a book released the same day as the Codex. Yes, yes, I know the apologists will be quick to point out this is because the release schedule is messed up. It still wouldn't be OK to do it within a few months of a Codex being released. The value proposition in this book is so tiny for me there's just no way to justify it. I'd much rather see GW do a bigger supplement with more material for every army. Then I might consider it as a one-off with all the content in one place. Chasing this endless train of tiny pieces of content just doesn't seem worth anyone's time.


I think its both so soon and so little.

I can imagine in 18 months, when the DE book and the meta has grown stale, it might be interesting to come up with more rules for mono-Wych Cult (and Covens etc) that take into account how those factions should operate in the fluff and also the limitations of only using those specific models. A bit like what the Armies of Renown are I guess trying to be.

But instead its just 2 pages of bloat. You might use the warlord traits and relics to make a better Succubus (maybe) and you might use a few of the stratagems. But that's it. Ignoring the fact it would be weird for Strife to have 4 warlord traits, relics and a seperate page of stratagems while the other get nothing, this clearly should have been in the DE book, or just not existed.

Obviously PA must have sold enough - or, possibly more likely, they think it cultivated an environment where people bought armies. I can see the idea of "I like the idea of Metalica, I like the paint scheme, and they get a page of unique stratagems. I'm in, where do I buy all the Ad Mech". Which will help GW's bottom line, regardless of whether people actually buy Charadon or not.

But yeah, hard to see people buying it for the actual content.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:07:55


Post by: Marshal Loss


Nope. Don't trust GW to write a good campaign story - been burned too many times - and there's not enough rules content to serve as insurance. For $60, it's not worth the risk.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:08:14


Post by: Jidmah


PA had vastly more than just 3-4 pages per army though.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:10:52


Post by: Lord Clinto


I personally couldn't stand the Vigilus detachments and refused to use them.

This book is along the same vein: more BS rules that only give unfair bonuses to certain armies, no thanks.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:11:17


Post by: Tyel


 Jidmah wrote:
PA had vastly more than just 3-4 pages per army though.


I guess some factions got a lot of stuff. Others not so much.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:11:19


Post by: jaredb


Absolutely, I love campaign books. I'm not picking them up for the rules though.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 12:32:57


Post by: Jidmah


Tyel wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
PA had vastly more than just 3-4 pages per army though.


I guess some factions got a lot of stuff. Others not so much.


Which ones outside of necrons didn't?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 13:11:05


Post by: Tyel


 Jidmah wrote:
Which ones outside of necrons didn't?


I think you know the ones I'm going to flag.

Dark Eldar got a selection of custom traits, the vast majority of which were obviously inferior to fixed obsessions - even before you lost faction locked warlord traits/relics/stratagems.
GSC got 1 psychic spell per faction, custom traits of questionable utility (which also barred you from said psychic abilities) and a two pages of stratagems (some of which were auto-include strong, but still.)

Then in the mixed tier you had something like Tyranids, which in page count probably did okay:
1 Page Relics
2 Pages of Stratagems
2 Pages of Custom Traits
2 Pages of Adapted Physiology
1 Page Faction Psychic Powers.

But a lot of it is just sort of *there*. A choice but not an especially compelling or satisfying one.

Then you have say Grey Knights who got a whole new ability.

(Its been said, but if non-Marine factions benefited from Successor Rules, a lot of these custom factions would be a lot more interesting.)


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 13:18:42


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


Not Online!!! wrote:
Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
You really shouldn't be buying it for matched play DE content, no matter what. There are literally three pages of content for you in it.


Agreed! I wish they add a feature on the app you can pay like... £2 for the 4 pages of Deldar rules from the book separate.


Why are you promoting this "eaistic" behaviour and encouraging them to double down on it with such suggestions?


For me, a HARD no.

And overall, GW shouldn't be surpised that there will be more and more blackflags beeing hoisted.


What on earth does eaistic even mean?? And how on earth am I encouraging GW with my suggestion? They wont read it, nor would they pay it any attention. And by all means black flagging GW books is fine by me, I got burnt hard on Vigilus for my CSM and my Nids in PA, but its also nice to have more options for rule access like most other games do.

And it would be a nice option, hell Privateer Press used to have such an option in their app where I could buy certain army/unit rules out of a whole tome for a cheaper than cup of coffee price. It's a fine OPTION, and I stress an OPTION. I'm not promoting GW continue doing the practice in these books like PA, but rather make the army specific rules available seperate from the whole book.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 13:28:10


Post by: Jidmah


Tyel wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Which ones outside of necrons didn't?


I think you know the ones I'm going to flag.

Dark Eldar got a selection of custom traits, the vast majority of which were obviously inferior to fixed obsessions - even before you lost faction locked warlord traits/relics/stratagems.
GSC got 1 psychic spell per faction, custom traits of questionable utility (which also barred you from said psychic abilities) and a two pages of stratagems (some of which were auto-include strong, but still.)

Ok, I was not aware of both DE and GSC, as we had no one playing them in our group at that time.

Then in the mixed tier you had something like Tyranids, which in page count probably did okay:
1 Page Relics
2 Pages of Stratagems
2 Pages of Custom Traits
2 Pages of Adapted Physiology
1 Page Faction Psychic Powers.

This is what most non-marine factions got, which was quite a good deal in my opinion. And totally worth buying a book to me, as I have used both WotS and SotB in every single game after they were released. Charadon is a completely different beast, you get 3-4 situational pages at best which you can only use under very specific circumstances.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 13:35:42


Post by: PenitentJake


@ Gir Spirit Bane: I think they meant EA-istic, as in "Like EA- the video game dudes"

@jidmah: Deathwatch and Harlies got their PA via WD; the Harlie update was good- some may even say it went too far given Harlie performance right now. Sisters got a unit (Daemonifuge) and that's it.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 13:41:45


Post by: Not Online!!!


PenitentJake wrote:
@ Gir Spirit Bane: I think they meant EA-istic, as in "Like EA- the video game dudes"

@jidmah: Deathwatch and Harlies got their PA via WD; the Harlie update was good- some may even say it went too far given Harlie performance right now. Sisters got a unit (Daemonifuge) and that's it.


Yes, this, piecemeal separate microtransactions and cut content for later resale....



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 14:19:43


Post by: yukishiro1


I think the key point here is the way they cravenly pushed a small amount of matched play content into what was otherwise a narrative campaign book, to try to get matched play players to shell out for it when they otherwise wouldn't. If they had just released a campaign book I doubt they'd be getting the same negative reactions, even if a lot of us still probably wouldn't have bought it. Even if they had done the exact same thing but made clear that the "Armies of Renown" were not valid in matched play, it wouldn't have got the same reaction.

It's a really terrible look to be releasing "rules supplements" as day-1 DLC for $60 - or even pre-LC before they codex is even out - and it's an even worse look to do it before lots of other factions have codexes at all.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 14:44:56


Post by: Dai


Yeah they could easily say "you can use this with points in your matched play games if you like but they weren't written with that in mind". Just so matched players could jump in in their own way if they like.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 14:51:03


Post by: PenitentJake


I would have thought the same thing, but if you go back through the thread, some people are frustrated because there isn't ENOUGH matched play content.

Those guys obviously aren't interested in a book that doesn't have matched play content.

So how do you keep both groups happy?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 14:53:43


Post by: Kanluwen




Matched Play is not strictly Tournament Play and vice versa. Helpful thing to remember!


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 14:54:20


Post by: Jidmah


yukishiro1 wrote:
I think the key point here is the way they cravenly pushed a small amount of matched play content into what was otherwise a narrative campaign book, to try to get matched play players to shell out for it when they otherwise wouldn't. If they had just released a campaign book I doubt they'd be getting the same negative reactions, even if a lot of us still probably wouldn't have bought it. Even if they had done the exact same thing but made clear that the "Armies of Reknown" were not valid in matched play, it wouldn't have got the same reaction.

It's a really terrible look to be releasing "rules supplements" as day-1 DLC for $60 - or even pre-LC before they codex is even out - and it's an even worse look to do it before lots of other factions have codexes at all.


This is a second time I'm agreeing with you today - the end is near

What really bugs me is that it costs twice as much as the crusade mission packs, despite having less content for most players. For $30, I would just have picked it up for the campaign rules and taken the DG stuff as nice side-effect.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:03:38


Post by: Kanluwen


The Crusade packs are $40, not $30.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but GW ain't stupid. They know people in gaming groups will share out rules from books like this.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:04:55


Post by: Jidmah


PenitentJake wrote:
I would have thought the same thing, but if you go back through the thread, some people are frustrated because there isn't ENOUGH matched play content.

Those guys obviously aren't interested in a book that doesn't have matched play content.

So how do you keep both groups happy?


How about by releasing two good books, instead of one that is all over the place and makes no one happy? One book dedicated to narrative content and one book dedicated to meaningful matched play extensions.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:08:39


Post by: Xenomancers


Almost no-one is going to buy this book. This is even worse value than that killteam box. At least I got Heavy intercessors in that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote:
I think the key point here is the way they cravenly pushed a small amount of matched play content into what was otherwise a narrative campaign book, to try to get matched play players to shell out for it when they otherwise wouldn't. If they had just released a campaign book I doubt they'd be getting the same negative reactions, even if a lot of us still probably wouldn't have bought it. Even if they had done the exact same thing but made clear that the "Armies of Reknown" were not valid in matched play, it wouldn't have got the same reaction.

It's a really terrible look to be releasing "rules supplements" as day-1 DLC for $60 - or even pre-LC before they codex is even out - and it's an even worse look to do it before lots of other factions have codexes at all.
My friends and I have the same opinion. We are not going to buy any supplements until the majority of armies have their codex out. This is the model GW needs to adapt to or I simply wont buy.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:11:33


Post by: Kanluwen


Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:34:39


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

People would have PREFERRED if the content was split across two separate cheaper books that were sold individually, though it's not like there'd be enough Matched play content to justify that


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:39:08


Post by: Jidmah


Well put. As I've already explained, if all the matched play content were replaced with more of the campaign/legendary missions content, I'd totally would have pre-ordered it.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:47:16


Post by: Kanluwen


No, you would not have. You'd be right here complaining about something else.

It's okay to just say "I think it's too expensive" or "I don't think I like the content in it".

I'm not buying it because it's focused on Cult Mechanicus rather than Skitarii. If the Army of Renown had been a Skitarii force? I'd have already bought the damn thing.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:57:18


Post by: Jidmah


 Kanluwen wrote:
No, you would not have. You'd be right here complaining about something else.

It's okay to just say "I think it's too expensive" or "I don't think I like the content in it".

I'm not buying it because it's focused on Cult Mechanicus rather than Skitarii. If the Army of Renown had been a Skitarii force? I'd have already bought the damn thing.


Ok, you really should go take a break from the forum now. Or go read my actual review and full reasoning I posted on this thread earlier instead of writing more dumb gak.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 15:59:01


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


I guess you must really think GW can only release terrible books then if you already assume I'd be complaining about it


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:00:14


Post by: Kanluwen


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.


People would have PREFERRED if the content was split across two separate cheaper books that were sold individually, though it's not like there'd be enough Matched play content to justify that

No, some people are claiming they would have preferred it. There's literally zero guarantee they would have bought it. Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze were both around $50 a pop, and matched players still gobbled those up or just pirated the rules or tried the usual "I bOuGhT iT DiGiTaLlY bUt HeRe'S tHe PaGe" nonsense while whining nonstop about how broken/OP the Specialist Detachments were.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but what people say they would do in a hypothetical situation does not actually equate to what they do in reality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I guess you must really think GW can only release terrible books then if you already assume I'd be complaining about it

Or I understand what kind of a community GW has?

People spend an ungodly amount of time complaining about things. I'm guilty of it myself for some stuff(Skitarii getting rolled in with Cult and losing literally all their flavor, Guard everything, and the horrible treatment of the Wanderers)...but people inevitably will always find something to gripe about.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:09:46


Post by: yukishiro1


 Kanluwen wrote:

No, some people are claiming they would have preferred it. There's literally zero guarantee they would have bought it. Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze were both around $50 a pop, and matched players still gobbled those up or just pirated the rules or tried the usual "I bOuGhT iT DiGiTaLlY bUt HeRe'S tHe PaGe" nonsense while whining nonstop about how broken/OP the Specialist Detachments were.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but what people say they would do in a hypothetical situation does not actually equate to what they do in reality.


I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it's absolutely pointless to accuse people of bad faith on the internet. There's no possible discussion to be had if your argument is premised on the other person being a liar who can't be trusted when he says what he thinks about something because you know better what he actually thinks than he does himself.

If you ever get to the point in a discussion where all you can say is "you're lying, that's not what you really think" it is generally a good clue that it's time to step away from the discussion, because all that does is poison things and destroy any possibility for further discussion.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:10:13


Post by: Jidmah


I own legit copies of all 8th and 9th edition books with ork or DG content in them, including vigilus, PA and the FW book for my exiled bikers, either as book or epub. I have the tournament mission pack, the BRB and the first crusade mission pack and plan on getting the second the next time I order something.

This book is in the same spot for me as the Urban Conquest book. It's just too much money for too little content.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:13:58


Post by: yukishiro1


Yeah, of all the people to accuse of being a hater who just wants to complain and pirate content rather than paying for it, I gotta say Jidmah is an odd choice.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:16:06


Post by: Jidmah


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.


The Charadon book has more pages dedicated to narrative gaming/crusade than to matched play.
At least get your facts right.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:26:33


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.

And? I never said it wasn't for sale still - I'm well aware that it is. Why would Narrative players want to buy this new book over the cheaper Mission Pack?
I don't see how this is meant to discredit me?


People would have PREFERRED if the content was split across two separate cheaper books that were sold individually, though it's not like there'd be enough Matched play content to justify that

No, some people are claiming they would have preferred it. There's literally zero guarantee they would have bought it. Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze were both around $50 a pop, and matched players still gobbled those up or just pirated the rules or tried the usual "I bOuGhT iT DiGiTaLlY bUt HeRe'S tHe PaGe" nonsense while whining nonstop about how broken/OP the Specialist Detachments were.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but what people say they would do in a hypothetical situation does not actually equate to what they do in reality.

Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze not only had much more Matched Play content in them, but were also much more meta relevant. They also didn't come out within a year of the edition being released and far more armies had recieved updated codexes.

You're right, there's 0 guarantee they would have bought it... but that doesn't somehow mean they wouldn't prefer it. Those aren't equivalent statements. Maybe they care about the precedent it sets, maybe they have a friend or family member who would have bought it that also isn't happy at the state of affairs. There's many reasons someone that wouldn't purchase an improved version of the product would still prefer and be content with the improved version.

If in some alternate universe GW did release the campaign as two seperate books for Matched Play and Narrative play featuring the same factions, I wouldn't have preordered either of them because I don't play the factions involved and I don't currently care about Narrative play. However, I'd consider buying the Narrative book at a later date if I started caring about Narrative Play.

Right now though? I'd only consider getting the older Missions Pack.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:29:19


Post by: Kanluwen


 Jidmah wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.


The Charadon book has more pages dedicated to narrative gaming/crusade than to matched play.
At least get your facts right.

I think you might be intending to reply to Matt Kingsley there, given that he's the one who commented:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.


Personally? I'd just cut Matched Play out of these things period. Let them be in their own special bubble of Chapter Approved stuff forever and ever.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 16:39:46


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Kanluwen wrote:
Spoiler:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.


The Charadon book has more pages dedicated to narrative gaming/crusade than to matched play.
At least get your facts right.

I think you might be intending to reply to Matt Kingsley there, given that he's the one who commented:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.


Personally? I'd just cut Matched Play out of these things period. Let them be in their own special bubble of Chapter Approved stuff forever and ever.

Ah yes, just cut out the part I said where people would have preferred if this release was two seperate books - one for Matched and one for Narrative.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 17:51:46


Post by: Arbitrator


yukishiro1 wrote:
Threads like this give me some hope that there is a point past which even a very easy-going frog cannot be boiled before it starts kicking up a fuss. One of the best things that could happen to GW would be is if these books end up as huge flops and it causes them to reconsider this "ever more rules, for ever more money" model.

Wait until a book drops with Marine content in it, that's when they'll see sales soar and be encouraged to push more.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 18:02:08


Post by: Spoletta


If this book had been fully narrative it would have been better.

You can't justify additional matched play content this early into an edition.
It is kind of acceptable toward the end of an edition, to fix up the issues that the factions developed during it. But this early into an edition? In a narrative book? That's a cash grab.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 18:29:48


Post by: Sasori


No, it doesn't cover the armies I have. Even if it did, the price tag for the amount of content I would be using is way to high.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 18:36:35


Post by: VladimirHerzog


Yar har har for me.

For the simple reason that theres 3 of my armies in there that got content cut from their codex to release this day -x DLC.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 18:40:14


Post by: Hollow


Apart from a very occasional purchase, I have stopped buying GW books. Too many, too often and they don't offer enough value.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 19:19:04


Post by: Cronch


If this book was narrative only it'd sell as badly as all narrative-only books do. matched drives sales of books.

That being said, this one is still an overpriced cash grab.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 19:54:57


Post by: tneva82


Nah. No factions i play. I don"t buy those books just to read.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 20:05:30


Post by: Horla


I play DG and I’m tempted to start Drukhari but this is money I’d rather spend on actually picking up the new DG and DE Codices and some models. If it was priced in the same range as the SM supplement books, I’d be more into it.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 20:07:34


Post by: jeff white


No, never even considered buying that book. I may read it from a Russian friend, some parts, and end up happy for not paying GW for tripe.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 21:25:47


Post by: vict0988


I'll borrow them to read and if I like them enough to think the pricing is fair and none of the matched play content features in a GT-winning list in the first 3 months of the book being out then I'll buy. I have been waiting for a piece of 40k writing that I can feel good supporting, it has been 6 years since I last bought anything other than the 9th rulebook (although the errata...). I don't want to support power creep and I don't want to support overpriced terrible writing and phoned-in art as was found in Psychic Awakening Pariah. I think starting the release of Charadon now is far too early, it should have been pushed back to 2022 when more codices are out. Mono-Wych Cult rules is not something that needs to be in the Drukhari codex. It just seems weird that these are the armies that are being focussed on. DG, Drukhari, Imperial Knights and AdMech, what do these have in common?

The best-case scenario, in my opinion, would be a total split between narrative content and matched play content as others have asked for, but I don't have a problem with day 1 DLC assuming the rules are optional. You can only fit so many rules into a printed book, whether supplements are released day 1 or day 600 is irrelevant to me. I have even advocated that Psychic Awakening Pariah should have included pre-LC, custom dynasties could have been in Pariah and if people wanting to run custom dynasties then needed Pariah as well I don't think that would be terrible assuming they were balanced. Going all of 8th without a campaign book and the same mostly-dull rules was dumb. As long as rules are not OP in order to sell books, I am happy. The problem with combining matched play with campaign supplements is that GW is incentivised to create OP rules to sell books. Make the weird Rust armies illegal in matched play and the bad incentives go away.

I got up in arms about Total War Warhammer day 1 DLC, but a big part of that was it being coupled for free with pre-ordering and I think pre-ordering is the real crime because it is harder to get your money back than to never spend it in the first place. I never got my money back from WC3 Reforged, would I have purchased it if I had not pre-ordered? Probably not, but I already paid and I hoped my investment would pay off with more development. Whether the day 1 DLC had been part of the base game in Total Warhammer meant nothing since the faction was unfun anyways.

GW is never going to get balance right whether they have 2 years or 5 years to balance an edition. Whether they release rules all at once like index 8th or piecemeal through codexes and campaigns like 8th proper. Best we can hope for getting big tournaments to show GW what is OP and then them not accidentally nerfing Ogryn instead of Bullgryn

Changing Marines to 2W this edition was the wrong choice, Space Marines got more than their fair share of attention last edition, with both SM and CSM getting two codexes and SM getting countless supplements in addition to a psychic awakening book with rules. I can appreciate it would be bad optics to release CSM, TS and GK before Drukhari but 1W Chosen vs 2W Tacticals does not fly. 10th edition would be a perfect time to give (C)SM 2W, fit it in with all the other presumably major changes 10th will bring as one of the even-numbered editions. GW could combine this timing with releasing Emperor's Children and World Eaters models and codices. The need for SM, BA, DA, DW and SW all at the start of the edition is pretty gross but also necessitated by the terrible balance of the last SM Codex.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 21:47:26


Post by: drbored


Nope.

If they were 40 USD I might have thought about it.

At 50 USD I could have still been convinced for the collecting purposes.

At 60 USD my tolerance was broken. If it's 2 books, 3, 4, each at 60 bucks... it's just too far for some rules that will be invalidated in a month or two, left behind by FAQs, or otherwise bad right off the bat, and, what, a handful of pages of lore on an area of space that I don't even care about? Ugh...

GW needs to stick to being a model company and not a bookseller.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 22:07:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Occurs to me that I never looked up the price of the Charadon book in Oz...

*opens GW webstore*

Holy gak! AUD$98. They want almost $100 for that thing. It's more than a Codex. The DE Codex has over 100 pages. This campaign book doesn't make it to triple digits.

What the feth are they thinking?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not buying it because it's focused on Cult Mechanicus rather than Skitarii.
It focuses on the Adeptus Mechanicus. Your slavish devotion to that old distinction that existed purely because of corporate reasons and nothing to do with the fluff of 40k is getting old, Kan.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 22:15:15


Post by: Castozor


 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not buying it because it's focused on Cult Mechanicus rather than Skitarii.
It focuses on the Adeptus Mechanicus. Your slavish devotion to that old distinction that existed purely because of corporate reasons and nothing to do with the fluff of 40k is getting old, Kan.


Well for once he might actually have a point though as the Army you can build from the book is pure AdMech by dropping all Skitarii units from your list.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 22:47:00


Post by: a_typical_hero


The content is of no interest to me and the price is way beyond my "might pick it up for the pretty pictures and some fluff" limit.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/23 23:19:56


Post by: Daedalus81


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What the feth are they thinking?


I almost feel like this is that test pricing like with the BotP box. People should really just not buy this.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 00:15:04


Post by: Cybtroll


I won't buy it. I could be interested in the rules for the Knight Freeblade Lance, but I can wait for them... indefinitely. I already played a huge number of games in the past years with an unplayable army.

GW taught me that my army can lag behind for an indefinite period of time and I can still have fun. And if I haven't, it's on ne, not in them

So, I'll wait till I can get it second hand, I guess. I'm totally immune to FOMO and meta-chasing impulses thanks to GW schizoid publishing schedule.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 00:39:20


Post by: Zustiur


I have never bought a campaign book. I'm hardly likely to start doing that now.
Core rules and codex for my army, maybe a supplement. That's more than enough to keep me going for 3 years. I don't need constant rules changes. Free FAQ style fixes are good though, I like that bit.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 00:51:19


Post by: Tycho


Cronch wrote:
If this book was narrative only it'd sell as badly as all narrative-only books do. matched drives sales of books.

That being said, this one is still an overpriced cash grab.



I don’t think we can say that. Have they even attempted a narrative only campaign book lately? Not a mission pack, but a full on campaign book?
Either way, you’re spot on about the cash grab though!

I’m still in the camp that had this been a cool campaign book in the spirit of the I:A books, and had narrative only rules, we’d have been all over. We mostly play competitive type games but the rules churn/bloat is a bit much and a fun narrative campaign would have been great.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 09:31:49


Post by: Dai


Tycho wrote:
Cronch wrote:
If this book was narrative only it'd sell as badly as all narrative-only books do. matched drives sales of books.

That being said, this one is still an overpriced cash grab.



I don’t think we can say that. Have they even attempted a narrative only campaign book lately? Not a mission pack, but a full on campaign book?
Either way, you’re spot on about the cash grab though!

I’m still in the camp that had this been a cool campaign book in the spirit of the I:A books, and had narrative only rules, we’d have been all over. We mostly play competitive type games but the rules churn/bloat is a bit much and a fun narrative campaign would have been great.



As one of the people who bought the original Age of Sigmar campaign books I have to unfortunately agree with Cronch. I've never met someone in person who also has even one of those books


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 13:12:18


Post by: Lord Damocles


Even this book which looks like cut content from Codexes also has even more content spread across multiple issues of White Dwarf.
Now the DLC has DLC.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 13:16:01


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Lord Damocles wrote:
Even this book which looks like cut content from Codexes also has even more content spread across multiple issues of White Dwarf.
Now the DLC has DLC.


Wait what now?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 14:10:13


Post by: PenitentJake


Yes, there is a Charadon Flashpoint series in White Dwarf.

Just like there was for Beyond the Veil, just like there is for AoS. The content in all three is mostly theatres of war, and a handful of secondaries/ agendas/ relics. It is all 100% optional, none of it affects the meta.

This is not new.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 15:31:25


Post by: Arbitrator


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Occurs to me that I never looked up the price of the Charadon book in Oz...

*opens GW webstore*

Holy gak! AUD$98. They want almost $100 for that thing. It's more than a Codex. The DE Codex has over 100 pages. This campaign book doesn't make it to triple digits.

What the feth are they thinking?

'Best year ever' and despite Australians constantly posting how bad their pricing is, there's a conspicuous amount of them who keep buying it anyway and then wonder why they go higher still.

My favourite is Outer Circle on YouTube, half of his videos complaining about pricing, then a bunch of others showing off the new armies he bought.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 17:57:25


Post by: Lord Damocles


PenitentJake wrote:
The content in all three is mostly theatres of war, and a handful of secondaries/ agendas/ relics. It is all 100% optional, none of it affects the meta.

It's just horse armour...


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 18:04:24


Post by: Dai


Additional content in White Dwarf is a thing as old as the hills though. It's not an example of them copying the DLC model.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/24 18:09:54


Post by: Insectum7


What's a Charadon?

Nope. Not buying.

Edit:

$60?!?! are they joking? They show the table of contents on their website too, the glossary starting at page 96. Not even 100 pages of content and they're charging 60$? GW can GTFO with that.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 07:04:51


Post by: AngryAngel80


but but but...the content Insectum ! You need it !


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 16:08:04


Post by: Argive


Im optimistic thanks to this thread. Hopefuly more people will stop supporting this "4 pages of rules for £35" book model.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 17:13:31


Post by: Spoletta


Even for a premium brand there is such a thing as a price limit.

They have hit that.
This should have been a soft cover book priced like a CA. It still wouldn't have sit well with me as a commercial practice, but that's another issue.

Same thing that is keeping me away from the new Aelves in AoS. Nice sculpts (some of them), but those prices are simply too high.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 22:48:15


Post by: Voss


I keep thinking about the transition from softback to hardback army books, the price increases and how much less I bought as a consequence.

There are two 8th edition fantasy books still on a nearby shelf in reach of this computer. There are eleven softback books from the edition before that. And many, many more from older editions in a box.

The closest thing to a 'campaign book' is the battle missions book from 2008. 96 pages, just like this but its largely back to back content all the way through. 2 pages of fluff text on a faction then 6 pages of missions, repeating over and over.
Price tag is gone, but I know for certain it wasn't anywhere near $60.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 23:05:29


Post by: PenitentJake


Yeah, switching to softback and dropping prices would certainly move more volume. I don't think they ever should have switched.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 23:09:14


Post by: Gadzilla666


Agreed, I far preferred soft back rulebooks. The additional expense of hardbacks isn't worth it considering the shelf life of printed gw rules.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 23:30:45


Post by: yukishiro1


Hardback has a higher profit margin; it only costs a quid or so more, but you can charge double because it looks "premium." I'm on record here before as saying I doubt they make much profit even on the hardback books, and that it's all about motivating people to buy the plastic that really makes them money...if they went to softback and had to lower their prices by the normal amount that entails within the industry, that'd probably wipe out their margin entirely.

Which doesn't mean what they're doing is good, it just means it's outdated. Rules should be released digitally for free or very low cost; they should embrace the real reason for the rules, which is to sell the plastic they actually make money from. Getting the rules to a larger number of people would do more for their profits than making slightly more per book on releases nobody buys because they're so expensive.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 23:46:53


Post by: Gadzilla666


yukishiro1 wrote:
Hardback has a higher profit margin; it only costs a quid or so more, but you can charge double because it looks "premium." I'm on record here before as saying I doubt they make much profit even on the hardback books, and that it's all about motivating people to buy the plastic that really makes them money...if they went to softback and had to lower their prices by the normal amount that entails within the industry, that'd probably wipe out their margin entirely.

Which doesn't mean what they're doing is good, it just means it's outdated. Rules should be released digitally for free or very low cost; they should embrace the real reason for the rules, which is to sell the plastic they actually make money from. Getting the rules to a larger number of people would do more for their profits than making slightly more per book on releases nobody buys because they're so expensive.

Exactly how much less would you expect gw to sell soft backs compared to hardbacks? Kill Team books are soft backs and are $40, about $35 with most discounts. That's pretty expensive for a soft back. I'd say they get pretty good margins on those.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/25 23:50:33


Post by: yukishiro1


If they only reduced it by the cost savings, your $60 book would only go to a ~$58 book. If they reduce it by more than that, their profit margins go down; that's just math. Assuming I am right that they are like every other publisher and their profit margin on books is not particularly high (though honestly, it probably is pretty high at that ridiculous $60 price point), there isn't much room to cut prices by removing the hardbacking. If they are committed to a particular profit margin, hardback vs softback isn't going to give the consumer a significant break.

What's really expensive about producing those books is the glossy full color; the binding only adds a quid or so vs softback.

Now if they abandoned the premium look entirely and switched to black and white stuff printed on normal softback novel quality paper...that'd save a lot. But it'd also defeat the whole purpose of why they print them. They're not selling you rules, not really - they' selling you inspiration to buy more plastic models, and to do that, they need the glossy full color.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 00:07:23


Post by: Gadzilla666


yukishiro1 wrote:
If they only reduced it by the cost savings, your $60 book would only go to a ~$58 book. If they reduce it by more than that, their profit margins go down; that's just math. Assuming I am right that they are like every other publisher and their profit margin on books is not particularly high (though honestly, it probably is pretty high at that ridiculous $60 price point), there isn't much room to cut prices by removing the hardbacking. If they are committed to a particular profit margin, hardback vs softback isn't going to give the consumer a significant break.

What's really expensive about producing those books is the glossy full color; the binding only adds a quid or so vs softback.

Now if they abandoned the premium look entirely and switched to black and white stuff printed on normal softback novel quality paper...that'd save a lot. But it'd also defeat the whole purpose of why they print them. They're not selling you rules, not really - they' selling you inspiration to buy more plastic models, and to do that, they need the glossy full color.

Gw obviously mark up their book prices significantly, but they're turning a profit on those $40 Kill Team books, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them at that price. Glossy 4-color printing (and that's what gw using, I don't see any special PMS colors in gw products) isn't that expensive depending on scale. I can't find any data on typical codex print runs, do you know any? I could put a quick estimate on man-hours needed for printing a codex with those, at a US plant of course.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 00:20:11


Post by: yukishiro1


I don't know; GW tends to keep that data pretty close its chest, I'm not sure it's something you can find out.

I don't know that they do turn a big profit on the kill team books. Because kill team is intended as a starter drug to get you into the hobby, they may well be willing to sell them at a much lower or even non-existent profit margin, the same way that milk is sold at or below cost at the supermarket to get you to buy other stuff. That's presumably why they aren't hardback - so they can put the lowest possible price on them, to keep the barrier to entry low.

I mean that said, obviously they make a big profit on the ones they sell direct to consumers from the webstore, because there's no middleman there. The price they sell to retailers is about 60% of MSRP, right?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 00:31:33


Post by: Gadzilla666


yukishiro1 wrote:
I don't know; GW tends to keep that data pretty close its chest, I'm not sure it's something you can find out.

I don't know that they do turn a big profit on the kill team books. Because kill team is intended as a starter drug to get you into the hobby, they may well be willing to sell them at a much lower or even non-existent profit margin, the same way that milk is sold at or below cost at the supermarket to get you to buy other stuff. That's presumably why they aren't hardback - so they can put the lowest possible price on them, to keep the barrier to entry low.

I mean that said, obviously they make a big profit on the ones they sell direct to consumers from the webstore, because there's no middleman there. The price they sell to retailers is about 60% of MSRP, right?

Yes, but the Kill Team Elites book goes for $40 MRSP, and is 144 pages. A book with a similar page count, on similar paper, printed at a US plant would go for about $15-$20 MRSP, coming from my plant. These would be what you'd call "coffee table books", as well as cook books and the like (no advertisements to offset the cost), with what I assume are similar print runs to typical codexes. And that's for US manufacturing, most gw books are printed in China. I think you underestimate how much gw marks up their printed material.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 02:37:38


Post by: Insectum7


In order for GW to make a profit the wholesale price has to be profitable. There's no way they're pricing wholesale at a loss. That makes everything beyond wholesale gravy for GW, and I'd guess the wholesale price (the price your FLGS pays to stock the product) is at least 40% off the retail price.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 03:36:31


Post by: Gadzilla666


 Insectum7 wrote:
In order for GW to make a profit the wholesale price has to be profitable. There's no way they're pricing wholesale at a loss. That makes everything beyond wholesale gravy for GW, and I'd guess the wholesale price (the price your FLGS pays to stock the product) is at least 40% off the retail price.

Yes, but most other publishers sell their books to stores at wholesale prices, and still have lower MRSPS for comparable products. Gw makes a tidy profit from its book sales, otherwise they wouldn't be constantly publishing books like the one we're talking about in this thread. Just compare their book prices to things like RPG rulebooks: they're similar. RPG companies make most of their money from those books, so they price them accordingly. Gw aren't just selling books to market their more profitable models, but are turning a profit on the books as well. And they could still turn a profit with lower priced soft back books, even if they were only $10 cheaper like those Kill Team books are compared to a typical codex.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 03:54:01


Post by: Insectum7


^Oh I wasn't trying to imply that they couldn't do softcover books or anything. I was just pointing out that GW was probably making a tidy profit.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 04:12:12


Post by: Gadzilla666


^^Ah, ok. As for the OP: Even if this book included rules for a faction that I play (it doesn't) I wouldn't buy it. After the rip off of PA, I refuse to pay for 4 pages of DLC again, and definitely not for $60. Enough.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 04:20:32


Post by: CEO Kasen


Wait, holy fething gak, what was that price tag?!

First, I need a word substitution browser extension that turns all the words back into profanity, but that aside, this thing is $60?!

To further fragment and bloat rules amidst narrative filler?!

Including Day 1 DLC for the Dark Eldar, Month 1 DLC for the Death Guard, and, oh, would you look at that, isn't Admech supposed to be next, so that's Month -1 DLC?

I already consider the codexes unworthy of their price tag, so:

"There are just so very many ways for me to say this to you: Never. Not in a million years. Absolutely not. No way, Jose. No chance, Lance. Nyet. Negatory. Mm-mm. Nuh-uh. Uh-uh. And of course, my own personal favorite of all time, man falling off of a cliff. Noooooooooo! *poof*"

Spoiler:




Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 08:30:11


Post by: Slipspace


^^^ Yeah, my initial reaction to the book was "nope, not for me the day 1 DLC". That was before I looked at the price. After I stopped laughing I couldn't even muster the energy to be surprised at GW any more.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 09:23:35


Post by: Dai


The annoying thing is if this "experiment" fails it may mean less narrative supplements for the players who actually want this (albeit at a lower price).


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 09:42:29


Post by: vict0988


Dai wrote:
The annoying thing is if this "experiment" fails it may mean less narrative supplements for the players who actually want this (albeit at a lower price).

It could mean a tonne of things, they might just up the power of the matched play rules to boost sales. Why fix Tau pts costs in an Errata when you can charge money for an expensive hardcover book with rules bloat to fix the problem?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 10:10:58


Post by: Jidmah


Dai wrote:
The annoying thing is if this "experiment" fails it may mean less narrative supplements for the players who actually want this (albeit at a lower price).


They really suck at releasing narrative rules though. The last experiment was urban conquest, which was a book that I'd totally would have bought if it was available as epub or at least as a stand-alone. But no, they wanted you to buy a box of useless terrain to get the book.

The crusade mission packs are an awesome format though, just do narrative campaigns in the same way.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 10:50:02


Post by: Daedalus81


 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yes, but the Kill Team Elites book goes for $40 MRSP, and is 144 pages. A book with a similar page count, on similar paper, printed at a US plant would go for about $15-$20 MRSP, coming from my plant. These would be what you'd call "coffee table books", as well as cook books and the like (no advertisements to offset the cost), with what I assume are similar print runs to typical codexes. And that's for US manufacturing, most gw books are printed in China. I think you underestimate how much gw marks up their printed material.


If it cost GW $20 and they sell it online they'll take $40. If a trade account sells it (over 50% of GW sales) they'll take $10 ($5 when priced at $50). Assuming the original numbers are correct anyway. GW makes big money on their website, so...buy local!


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 12:22:52


Post by: Spoletta


I mean, that's the basic rule.
Always buy local.
I don't care about online discounted prices, my main purpose in buying is to support my local store.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 13:31:10


Post by: Quasistellar


Spoletta wrote:
I mean, that's the basic rule.
Always buy local.
I don't care about online discounted prices, my main purpose in buying is to support my local store.


Buy local, but if that isn't possible at least buy from anyone except GW direct.

I am continuously annoyed by things being available direct from GW, yet my local shop can't get their order filled.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 14:06:41


Post by: Stormonu


I’m one of those who did want hardbacks, as my prior experiences have been that such books last - I have D&D hardbacks from the 80’s that have seen a lot of use that are still intact (Though I have to admit, my RT book didn’t survive even into the late 90’s; the rest are in great shape).

Unfortunately, I’ve found modern hardcovers are nowhere as durable (my 5E PHB split after 6 mos. or so), and certainly not worth the price when they are being replaced every 2 years or so. If GW is going to physically print books, it needs to go back to soft covers.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 14:23:17


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Spoletta wrote:
I mean, that's the basic rule.
Always buy local.
I don't care about online discounted prices, my main purpose in buying is to support my local store.

Then buy other things besides GW to support them.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 17:03:33


Post by: Mr. Grey


 Stormonu wrote:

Unfortunately, I’ve found modern hardcovers are nowhere as durable (my 5E PHB split after 6 mos. or so), and certainly not worth the price when they are being replaced every 2 years or so. If GW is going to physically print books, it needs to go back to soft covers.


I believe this is a known issue with WotC DnD hardcovers in particular, and probably isn't indicative of most modern hardback rulebooks.

As for Charadon - no thanks. I got burned by Saga of the Beast as it is. $40 for a book that I ended up never getting to use thanks to covid, with a few pages of crappy fluff. Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released. So hard pass on Charadon.

And $60 for less than 100 pages? Forget it. You know what else was $60 and clocked in at almost 400 pages? The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay rulebook from Cubicle 7.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 17:29:52


Post by: vict0988


 Mr. Grey wrote:
Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released.

You can still use Saga of the Beast rules for Orks. The only rules invalidated by 9th is Specialist Detachments from Vigilus Defiant.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 19:36:41


Post by: Mr. Grey


 vict0988 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released.

You can still use Saga of the Beast rules for Orks. The only rules invalidated by 9th is Specialist Detachments from Vigilus Defiant.


Good chance the codex is coming soon, in which I foresee all of the Saga of the Beast stuff just being rolled into the codex. Which still invalidates my purchase.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 19:45:01


Post by: Daedalus81


 Mr. Grey wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released.

You can still use Saga of the Beast rules for Orks. The only rules invalidated by 9th is Specialist Detachments from Vigilus Defiant.


Good chance the codex is coming soon, in which I foresee all of the Saga of the Beast stuff just being rolled into the codex. Which still invalidates my purchase.


Well...it wasn't really invalidated by 9th. It's shelf life will probably be about a year if we see Orks before May, which obviously isn't stupendous. It might have felt less brief if not for COVID.



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 20:11:02


Post by: vict0988


 Mr. Grey wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released.

You can still use Saga of the Beast rules for Orks. The only rules invalidated by 9th is Specialist Detachments from Vigilus Defiant.


Good chance the codex is coming soon, in which I foresee all of the Saga of the Beast stuff just being rolled into the codex. Which still invalidates my purchase.

How soon? At least 12 months after Saga of the Beast, probably more like 24 months. How long did you hope Saga of the Beast would be viable for? I think more than 36 months is asking too much, on the other hand, 6 months is way too little. But it's been 12 months and your rules are still usable, so why complain?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 20:17:41


Post by: Mr. Grey


Well see, largely I'm complaining because I rarely get to play 40k. Just a few times a year. My last game was in February of 2020. Can you take a guess at what happened just after that? And another guess as to why I haven't had any chances at all to play since then? So yeah, I feel justified in complaining that Saga of the Beast for me is nothing more than a $40 paperweight.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 20:53:11


Post by: Stormonu


 vict0988 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released.

You can still use Saga of the Beast rules for Orks. The only rules invalidated by 9th is Specialist Detachments from Vigilus Defiant.


Good chance the codex is coming soon, in which I foresee all of the Saga of the Beast stuff just being rolled into the codex. Which still invalidates my purchase.

How soon? At least 12 months after Saga of the Beast, probably more like 24 months. How long did you hope Saga of the Beast would be viable for? I think more than 36 months is asking too much, on the other hand, 6 months is way too little. But it's been 12 months and your rules are still usable, so why complain?


36 months is too long for a book to be valid? No thanks. If I can’t get 5+ *years* worth of value out of it, it isn’t worth buying.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 21:25:53


Post by: vict0988


 Stormonu wrote:

36 months is too long for a book to be valid? No thanks. If I can’t get 5+ *years* worth of value out of it, it isn’t worth buying.

That's extreme, you're describing most editions and codexes, but okay. I guess you and Mr. Grey can continue playing 8th for 5 years, where do I sign up


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 22:04:48


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 vict0988 wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:

36 months is too long for a book to be valid? No thanks. If I can’t get 5+ *years* worth of value out of it, it isn’t worth buying.

That's extreme, you're describing most editions and codexes, but okay. I guess you and Mr. Grey can continue playing 8th for 5 years, where do I sign up

Most editions were 3 years old or less? You're not serious are you?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 22:52:33


Post by: Dysartes


The last couple of editions for 40k were, I believe, as was AOS 1.0. There's an assumption that AOS moves to 3.0 this summer, which would (I think) be a 3 year cycle.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/26 23:12:23


Post by: vict0988


It has been more than 20 years since an edition began that lasted 5+ years you bunch of dinos


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/27 00:24:52


Post by: PenitentJake


Meh. Where there's dinos...

There are Exodites!



Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/27 02:33:59


Post by: AngryAngel80


 vict0988 wrote:
It has been more than 20 years since an edition began that lasted 5+ years you bunch of dinos


New doesn't always mean better. In this case it only really means worse. There is no reason they need to churn editions so fast outside of milking the customer for more and more money at a quickened cadence.So some of us may be Dinos, but at least we paid less for stuff that lasted longer. That is, in my dino mind a good thing, and not a bad one. I personally hate the 3 year life cycle it screams lack of conviction to a lasting or good rule set over rampant money churning which while good in short term, doesn't lead to long term contentment for the customer.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/27 02:34:13


Post by: Voss


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Effectively I paid $40 for the 5-6 pages of rules for my orks, which was then almost immediately invalidated when 9e was announced and released.

You can still use Saga of the Beast rules for Orks. The only rules invalidated by 9th is Specialist Detachments from Vigilus Defiant.


Good chance the codex is coming soon, in which I foresee all of the Saga of the Beast stuff just being rolled into the codex. Which still invalidates my purchase.


Well...it wasn't really invalidated by 9th. It's shelf life will probably be about a year if we see Orks before May, which obviously isn't stupendous. It might have felt less brief if not for COVID.



Well, not really. Covid is actually stretching the lifespan of some of the PA books. The last few Codexes have been delayed, after all.

DG and DE players certainly got a longer intended lifespan out of their PA books.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/27 06:51:49


Post by: ccs


 Mr. Grey wrote:
Well see, largely I'm complaining because I rarely get to play 40k. Just a few times a year.


That's not GWs problem.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
My last game was in February of 2020. Can you take a guess at what happened just after that?


I'm going to guess....
Spoiler:
A world wide pandemic & all that entails.



 Mr. Grey wrote:
And another guess as to why I haven't had any chances at all to play since then?


I'm going to guess....
Spoiler:
A world wide pandemic & all that entails.







Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/27 07:46:09


Post by: AngryAngel80


Wrong ! He didn't get games in because of swarms of out of control murder hornets. Thanks for playing, in this episode of why didn't I get to play 40k. Stay tuned next time for who is deadliest, Nurglings or High school Sloppy Joes.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/27 12:12:42


Post by: PenitentJake


Murder hornets are tyranid vanguard organisms.

Truth.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/28 00:38:57


Post by: AngryAngel80


PenitentJake wrote:
Murder hornets are tyranid vanguard organisms.

Truth.


I knew it, purge them with flame !


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/28 18:36:28


Post by: waefre_1


Better idea: engage the Magos Biologis to create armored, flying cyberbadgers to hunt the hornets and destroy their nests with laser eyes. What could possibly go wrong?

OT: No, because AFAIK the first book doesn't have anything for the Guard. Also no for any later book/s that do, because the relevant rules/etc will get placed somewhere public soon after said book's release, and I don't feel a particular need to purchase campaign books.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/28 22:23:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Still on sale.

D'ya think they'll bother with "collector's" editions for the other book/s in this series?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/28 22:26:51


Post by: ccs


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Still on sale.

D'ya think they'll bother with "collector's" editions for the other book/s in this series?


Yes.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/28 22:31:34


Post by: Dysartes


Question, given the title of the thread - there's been a lot of talk about the dislike of the Book of Rust, but relatively little either way regarding Plague Purge.

I can probably guess the answer, but I figure I'll ask the question anyway - are people happier with books like Plague Purge and Beyond the Veil than they are the Book of Rust?


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/28 22:48:40


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Because they're Crusade books. They're a campaign book with specific Crusade rules for that campaign. They're not DLC for existing armies.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/29 00:14:52


Post by: PenitentJake


I found BoR to be better than Plague Purge. There isn't a heck of a lot of Crusade content in it; the largest chunk is, of course, missions. Trouble is, there isn't anything inherently "Crusade" about missions. What Crusade content there is amounts to a handful of requisitions that mostly facilitate the use of strategems that are only available in campaign battles.

I might skip the next mission pack. There's just too much reprint of basic rules eating up pages that could be put to such better use.

By contrast, the BoR has given me much more to work with.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/29 05:53:52


Post by: yukishiro1


 Dysartes wrote:
Question, given the title of the thread - there's been a lot of talk about the dislike of the Book of Rust, but relatively little either way regarding Plague Purge.

I can probably guess the answer, but I figure I'll ask the question anyway - are people happier with books like Plague Purge and Beyond the Veil than they are the Book of Rust?


Because they do one thing, and you don't have to buy them if you're not interested in that one thing. If you want crusade campaign rules you buy them, if you don't, you don't. They're not day-1 $60 DLC for a $50 codex that GW has cravenly put into an otherwise narrative book to try to extract more cash from people who wouldn't otherwise buy it.

I mean for all I know Plague Purge is a terrible release too, but I literally don't care because I don't play crusade so it doesn't concern me either way.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/03/29 06:05:44


Post by: Voss


A book dedicated to it's premise at a lower price point is inherently less offensive. It seems annoying that they dumped the basic rules into it (same as previous mission packs), but it's got 55 pages of missions in a mission book,and about 15 pages of other crusade stuff.

That seems workable, if not excellent. A buyer is getting what it says on the tin.
Someone who isn't into crusade rules and crusade missions isn't being told they're missing out on the latest thing if they don't buy it.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/04/10 12:44:26


Post by: Pickled_egg


I bought the Charadon book as I play Drukhari and wanted access to the Cult of Strife supplement, and I can't say I would recommend it at its price base.

Very small page count (less pages than a white dwarf)

Only a few pages of actual rules, handful of pages on Crusade and the rest is fluff and art, the art is all gorgeous in typical GW style, but really not sure its worth it.

Actually feel its a bit shady from GW it feels a bit pay to win, When you purchase the codex for your army you shouldn't have to fork out for another book to unlock certain elements.

Also GW have repeatedly acknowledged in the past that they don't like players having to bring 3-4 rulebooks to a game, and this is very much heading down that slippery slope again.

I'd steer clear or perhaps pool with your mates to unlock the code for the app.

By and large loving 9th but if GW is listening Quality trumps quantity every single time


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/04/10 18:03:14


Post by: Lord Damocles


Pickled_egg wrote:
Quality trumps quantity every single time

Not if they sell it either way.


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/04/11 01:18:56


Post by: PenitentJake


I'm going to try really hard to get enough models ready and play through all of these resources to just actually give it an honest try. I have all the stuff- Piety and Pain, Book of Rust, Plague Purge, and all the flashpoints. Ideally, I'd be able to put together enough games to try using each resource separately and then refight using a combination of the resources to see which gives me the best experience, but that's a lot of games, and I've got my own original campaign to play and develop, so I doubt I'll take it that far.

The campaign Rules in the BoR don't talk about which games/ missions fit into which phase of the campaign; they leave it up to the players... Which is probably for the best. For my part, I think it's cool that they built it in layers like this- some people will disagree, because their attitude will be "It should have all been in the same book so I would only have to buy one."

But from my point of view, I think it was a great move- literally no two Charadon Campaigns will ever look the same. Even if you compare groups of players using the same resources, because we make the decisions about how they fit together, there's no way it's going to synch up exactly with any other group, which is great. It also gives people the option for different levels of participation; the purchase of a single WD is going to give you 3 Theatres of War that relate to the campaign, and maybe that's as far as you go. Put it all in the same book, and that's no longer an option.

So quick breakdown for those who don't have all the stuff:

The BoR lays out a campaign, allowing you to play it matched or crusade. The campaign has three phases, and each phases provides a Theatre of War representing the shifting balance of power as the campaign grinds on rather than specific geography. It also tells you the Story of the Campaign, listing key battles and a rough chronological order, though of course there's plenty of overlapping action. As mentioned, it doesn't tell you which battles fall in which phase.

The action starts with invasions of 3 systems- Chromyd, Duralim and Alumax. These systems are distraction battles essentially- none of them are directly connected to Metalica, which is the jewel of the subsector. For me, these battles make good candidates for round one of the campaign.

From there, Typhus hits the Metalican gates- the three systems which guard warp routes to the Metalican system. Ongoing fighting an stuborn resistance at Chromyd keep Typhus from hitting Rhodior, but they do hit Feiror and Brezantius. At the same time, Imperial Forces are still engaged on the phase one targets, and many are forced to nearby fall-back positions. These are good phase two battles.

All of these battles- even those against the gates- were all just cover for a huge ritual that opens a gate directly into the Metalican system. The book names a few planets within the Metalican system. These make good phase three battles.

The BoR also provides 3 Legendary Missions; these are key battles, and it is suggested that these can make good "end of phase battles."
So, with 24 missions in Plague Purge, 3 in the BoR and two in Piety and Pain gives us 2 more, for a total of 29. Add in one one additional mission, and that takes us to 30 fights- ten per campaign phase, with BoR missions at battles 10, 20 and 30.

So looking at phase one, we have 3 systems to fight in, and wouldn't you know it, WD gives us Flash Points for two of those three systems- Chromyd and Alumax, and there are 3 planets, each with a Theatre of War in each system. Finally, Piety and Pain's Missions, which only include the units in the box, are set on Martyr's Rest in the Chromyd Sector- one of the three planets in WD Flashpoint.

This makes Martyr's Rest absolute spoiled for Theatre of War rules: you can use the location based ones from the Flashpoint, the Urban Arena from Piety and Pain or the phase-based Theatre from the BoR. Now my personal preference here is to use the phase-based Theatres on the end-of-phase battles, and other battles where there are no other options.

So here is what phase one looks like:

Battle 1:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Martyr's Rest
Theatre of War: Urban Arena (Piety and Pain)
Mission: Soul Hunt (Piety and Pain)

Note: there's a story thread here, so unless the Sisters score at least a minor Victory, it doesn't make sense to proceed. If you need to refight until the Sisters locate a clue, you should.

Battle 2:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Martyr's Rest
Theatre of War: Urban Arena (Piety and Pain)
Mission: Enough is Enough (Piety and Pain)

Note: If the Sisters win, they push the DE out in the next battle; if the DE win, they push the Sisters out.

Battle 3:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Martyr's Rest
Theatre of War: Martyr's Rest (WD 460)
Mission: Run Them Down (Plague Purge)

Note: The winner here is essentially the winner of Martyr's Rest. The Warrior Bones relic from WD 460 are tied to this location, and make a good prize.

Battle 4:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Dryock's Reach
Theatre of War: Dryoch's Reach (WD 460)
Mission: Infiltrate the Ring (Plague Purge)

Battle 5:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Dryock's Reach
Theatre of War: Dryoch's Reach (WD 460)
Mission: Survivors of the Fallout (Plague Purge)

Battle 6:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Dryock's Reach
Theatre of War: Dryoch's Reach (WD 460)
Mission: Tech Relic (Plague Purge)

Note: Given the nature of the Mission, the Lost Archeotech Relic from WD is a good reward here, but weapon upgrades from BoR work too.

Battle 7:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Okharium
Theatre of War: Okharium (WD 460)
Mission: Seed Malignifier (Plague Purge)

Battle 8:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Okharium
Theatre of War: Okharium (WD 460)
Mission: Raid for Supplies (Plague Purge)

Note: This is the last Mission for Combat Patrol Sized or smaller games, so this is the place where PL can finally get to 50

Battle 9:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Okharium
Theatre of War: Okharium (WD 460)
Mission: Tech Hunt (Plague Purge)

Note: The next battle is end-of-phase, and all of these missions were written for Strike Force/ Onslaught Games, and right now armies are only Incursion levels, so I'd suggest Team play.

Battle 10:
Location: Chromyd Sector, Okharium
Theatre of War: Phase 1 (BoR)
Mission: Rout on Okharium (BoR)

Note: The Resilient Cuirass from WD 460 is tied to this location, but it is an Antiquity Relic, and at this size of battle, it's possible that there will not be a heroic level Character to use it; I'd recomend allowing the item to be added to the Order of Battle until such time as a character becomes experienced enough to use it.

So there are the interactions of all the sources for one possible phase 1 of a Charadon Crusade. This post is huge already, so I'm going to wrap it here.

I know that Dakka isn't crawling with Crusade players, and that much of the audience here are more concerned with the Matched Play game. That being the case, I'll let responses to this post dictate whether or not I bother writing up Phase 2 and 3. If no one cares enough about Charadon, my time is probably better spent building the terrain and painting the models to play it.

At the same time, I'd love to hear how other people are using the resources too- obviously, your phase one might look nothing like mine. And if anyone wants to present a phase two of their own before I get there (if I get there), I'd love to get a look at that too.

And of course, we're less than a week away from WD and 3 more WD Theatres of War. Curious to see where they go.






Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/04/11 11:44:31


Post by: Catulle


That's really neat, Jake, thanks!


Are you planning on picking up the Charadon books? @ 2021/04/11 16:34:28


Post by: PenitentJake


One of the weird things about the phase one I described above is that it's all Chromyd sub-sector fights, even though Alumax and Duralim were also a part of the opening attack.

One of the WD Flashpoints is for Alumax- so those battles could also fit in phase one... but there are just so many phase one resources.