Untill Wonder Woman 2 the first SS was the weakest DC movie IMO so hopefully this one will be a pleasant surprise. I love Harlequin/Margot so this one is a must see.
With Gunn at the help, I'd expect this one to get a little closer to a GotG feel - though, equally, Gunn was told he could kill off anyone he wanted to.
Given Peacemaker (John Cena's character) is getting his own series, that might indicate he survives, but equally it could be a prequel.
I'm one of the (seemingly few) people who didn't think the first Suicide Squad film was terrible. Hard to tell from the trailer but this film doesn't seem any worse. I'll probably watch it.
El Torro wrote: I'm one of the (seemingly few) people who didn't think the first Suicide Squad film was terrible. Hard to tell from the trailer but this film doesn't seem any worse. I'll probably watch it.
The first one wasn't a great movie, but by the standards of DC films, it was a good one.
This one... I'm not sure if its just that Gunn is much more shallow of a director than I thought, but the trailer makes it look more like a Guardians of the Galaxy spinoff than a DC movie.
The pacing for the one liners, giant monster, 'anatomical' humor, the general irreverence and indifference to their situation, etc.
Well, except the obsessive DC urge to mess with the color saturation. Stop it, already.
Shadow Walker wrote: Untill Wonder Woman 2 the first SS was the weakest DC movie IMO so hopefully this one will be a pleasant surprise. I love Harlequin/Margot so this one is a must see.
I'm going to have to disagree. Birds of Prey was the weakest DC movie.
Shadow Walker wrote: Untill Wonder Woman 2 the first SS was the weakest DC movie IMO so hopefully this one will be a pleasant surprise. I love Harlequin/Margot so this one is a must see.
I'm going to have to disagree. Birds of Prey was the weakest DC movie.
Its all subjective But have to agree that Margot is wonderful in the role of Harley - not seen WW2 yet but have enjoyed quite a few of the more recent DC films - Birds of Prey, Justice League (not seen the rework) and Wonder Woman 1 was awesome.
For me The Superman films have been a big let down, Bats vs Sups was terrible but only because of the plot/Lex Luthor - everything else was enjoyable.
I was also underwhelmed by Guardians films - not bad but for me some the weakest Marvel films - but better than Cap A1
However I loved the Queen music themed Suicide Squad Trailer and the film was not as good....still at least the Director seems to have stayed till the end.
Hmmmmm, still feeling rather wary/ambivalent about this movie. Seeing that STARRO is somehow involved doesn't get my hopes up, because SS is best when it isn't involved in saving the world but doing Waller's dirty work or cleaning up her or the government's messes. STARRO is a JL level threat, so I don't like how they didn't try to go for a smaller scale problem for them to solve.
Grimskul wrote: Hmmmmm, still feeling rather wary/ambivalent about this movie. Seeing that STARRO is somehow involved doesn't get my hopes up, because SS is best when it isn't involved in saving the world but doing Waller's dirty work or cleaning up her or the government's messes. STARRO is a JL level threat, so I don't like how they didn't try to go for a smaller scale problem for them to solve.
Well, maybe Captain Carrot and the Amazing Zoo Crew can show up and save the day from the evil starfish.
So this is a direct sequel to SS 1, but does it come after Birds of Prey? (which was a big hit in my family, we all liked it and enjoyed it for popcorn)
My understanding is that it isn't SS2 at all and an urgent reboot of Suicide Squad after the first one didn't really impress. So outside of the lovely Margot as Harley, there's zero continuity between the films and quite possibly nothing connecting it to other DC films.
Despite the annoying "filthy gangster" theme they have for these movies, Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey were fairly enjoyable movies. This trailer is the most promising one so far, so if the pictures are open again its a date.
Only small niggle at this time is the lazy title. I say push the boat out and call it "Suicide Squad 2: The Wrath of Doctor Who".
Azreal13 wrote: My understanding is that it isn't SS2 at all and an urgent reboot of Suicide Squad after the first one didn't really impress. So outside of the lovely Margot as Harley, there's zero continuity between the films and quite possibly nothing connecting it to other DC films.
I thought the actors who were Rick Flagg and Amanda Waller stayed the same, as did Captain Boomerang...so there is that continuity
Azreal13 wrote: My understanding is that it isn't SS2 at all and an urgent reboot of Suicide Squad after the first one didn't really impress. So outside of the lovely Margot as Harley, there's zero continuity between the films and quite possibly nothing connecting it to other DC films.
I thought the actors who were Rick Flagg and Amanda Waller stayed the same, as did Captain Boomerang...so there is that continuity
It's superficial at best.
The actors that did a real good job have stuck around to keep doing a good job. But this movie is supposed to have nothing to do with the other movies apparently. WB is just making DC movies at this point. There isn't much rhyme or reason to it besides what they think might be profitable.
I have the feeling that Starro is almost more of a backdrop. Like, the squad might not be dealing with Starro directly, but more perhaps with various mind controlled people. - The Thinker definitely seems to be related to Starro in some way from the posters. So maybe one is mind controlling the other, or some sort.
So, like, you follow the Suicide Squad doing their mission, then maybe halfway through, Hawkman from Black Adam gets cratered from fighting Starro, stands up and flies back into that action.
Azreal13 wrote: My understanding is that it isn't SS2 at all and an urgent reboot of Suicide Squad after the first one didn't really impress. So outside of the lovely Margot as Harley, there's zero continuity between the films and quite possibly nothing connecting it to other DC films.
I thought the actors who were Rick Flagg and Amanda Waller stayed the same, as did Captain Boomerang...so there is that continuity
It's superficial at best.
The actors that did a real good job have stuck around to keep doing a good job. But this movie is supposed to have nothing to do with the other movies apparently. WB is just making DC movies at this point. There isn't much rhyme or reason to it besides what they think might be profitable.
They want to have their cake and eat it too. The first film did have its fans...and they want those fans to view it as a sequel. It also had many detractors...and they want them to see this as a new thing from a different director.
Think they pulled it off with the trailer at least. It's obviously more comedic than the first and very 'James Gunn', while the '...you die' line is a blatant wink at the other movie.
well, at the very least she appears to be wearing the actual harley quinn outfit. one of my big recurring pet peeves of the whole superhero movie genre is 'we want to capitalize on your nostalgia for superheroes, but we think of ourselves as just way too cool to put any of those dumb doofy superhero COSTUMES in our movie.
Like if youre gonna do a superhero movie, fething commit to the doofy outfit, coward. X-men is the ultimate offender here obviously but the fact that they made a Suicide Squad movie and dressed her like the gal who went to a christian girls boarding school her whole life and then got sent off to college and is overcompensating super hard always kinda annoyed me.
Like if youre gonna do a superhero movie, fething commit to the doofy outfit, coward. X-men is the ultimate offender here obviously but the fact that they made a Suicide Squad movie and dressed her like the gal who went to a christian girls boarding school her whole life and then got sent off to college and is overcompensating super hard always kinda annoyed me.
What?
In SS she wore an outfit my daughter had on her wall for years.
In BoP she's worn those outfits as well.
Technically Luke Cage wore his old comic outfit for all of a minute before ditching it and sticking with street clothes. I do love that their movies got Mysterio’s fish bowl and Black Manta’s big disc head in them. Even Aquaman manages to make his comic suit look good.
Lance845 wrote: The mcu has pretty much done all but the most offensive super hero costumes (hawkeye).
Yes and I respect that. mostly they get rid of hats, which is fine, you wanna showcase your actors' expressions in a movie, so unless the hat is extremely important to the character it generally makes sense to either remove it or tone it down, wheras in a comic book a distinctive hat can help a character be differentiable. which is exactly what they've done with harlie in the new movie - take the classic costume, remove the hat.
I'm very thankful that the 'we want to do superhero movies but we're too cool to do the silly outfits' died with the X-men flicks. Rami's spider man flicks just owned it and from then on it was smooth sailing.
Maybe the fact that green goblin was scarier without the mask on was what saved the classic silly costumes.
Grimskul wrote: Hmmmmm, still feeling rather wary/ambivalent about this movie. Seeing that STARRO is somehow involved doesn't get my hopes up, because SS is best when it isn't involved in saving the world but doing Waller's dirty work or cleaning up her or the government's messes. STARRO is a JL level threat, so I don't like how they didn't try to go for a smaller scale problem for them to solve.
With Gunn at the helm there's no way this is going to be a gritty spy drama with supervillains taking on the Russian mafia or whatever.
Starro is there because a giant starfish that mind controls people is funny and kinda scary but in a PG sort of way.
the_scotsman wrote: mostly they get rid of hats, which is fine, you wanna showcase your actors' expressions in a movie, so unless the hat is extremely important to the character it generally makes sense to either remove it or tone it down, wheras in a comic book a distinctive hat can help a character be differentiable. which is exactly what they've done with harlie in the new movie - take the classic costume, remove the hat.
What the MCU does with helmets/masks/hats is worse though. Hats/masks/helmets that are there until the character has to speak, and suddenly they morph away, and then come back once they're done speaking.
The two best (worst?) examples are the final fight in Black Panther, where they're fighting and fighting and every now and again stop to talk, and their masks vanish. The second is in Engame, when Spidey shows up and inexplicably removes his mask in case, what, we forgot who was under there?
Iron Man struck a balance, allowing for facial acting "within" the helmet, but even they abandoned that eventually for helmets that just vanish during dialogue.
Dysartes wrote: Anyone else curious about the spear Harley seems to be rocking in places in the trailers?
Probably Javelin's javelin, likely taken after his immediate but inevitable demise.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Starro is there because a giant starfish that mind controls people is funny and kinda scary but in a PG sort of way.
Dreadwinter wrote: I think it says a lot about DC movies when they have to put "From the Director of Guardians of the Galaxy" in the trailer to get people interested.
Yeah, I did find that quite funny that they have to piggyback onto the MCU brand and their directors to give credibility of some sort to the movie.
Maybe its the weasel thing (which just looks awful), but the tone flails randomly between super-serious and complete camp and bizarre romance subplots that I seriously hope are just bait.
Still confused why they brought Captain No Personality back to be the team babysitter.
Maybe its the weasel thing (which just looks awful), but the tone flails randomly between super-serious and complete camp and bizarre romance subplots that I seriously hope are just bait.
Still confused why they brought Captain No Personality back to be the team babysitter.
They kept Rick Flagg probably so he could be in love with main villain again, though this time its gonna be Starro, since he's a fan of suction cups.
Waller and Flag are pretty much the key figures in the Squad, so I'm not surprised he's back in this film.
What I do find interesting is that he doesn't appear to show up after a certain point, if I'm figuring the timeline of scenes correctly, so maybe he gets taken out in this one?
Dreadwinter wrote: I think it says a lot about DC movies when they have to put "From the Director of Guardians of the Galaxy" in the trailer to get people interested.
and ideas we totally didn't fish out of the script bin from the Harly cartoon...
The embargo has lifted, and reviews are coming in...pretty strong right now on RT and MC.
Had an opportunity to see an advanced screening tomorrow night but I can't make it. I think I'm gonna see this one in the theater...first trip there since before COVID. Something big, loud and fun seems like a good choice.
So, who wants to start a deadpool? Who lives, who dies, and how? Bonus points if you get the order right.
First off, my locks for survivor(s):
Spoiler:
Amanda Waller
Harley Quinn
These two are safe in my view, being the two characters they actually need for future films. Harley, being the only A-list character present, and Waller being the one character that they need to survive to make more Suicide Squad movies.
Then, my I-am-willing-to-bet-a-beer-on-them-surviving-but-no-more choice(s):
Spoiler:
Bloodsport- I expect that they will want a relatively sane field leader for the team for any future films, and he seems more interesting than Col. Flagg
Polka-Dot Man: The one guy who wants to die, so of course he will almost certainly survive.
A couple Coin Tosses:
Spoiler:
Peacemaker and King Shark: I expect that these two will be very profitable, very popular Meme Machines. Good choices to keep for future films, but also likely two of the bigger paycheques, so it is very possible these two die in the final fight. I give King Shark better odds, because Groot.
Now for the fun bit!
Spoiler:
First Death goes to Sir Barely-Appearing-in-the-Trailer, Javelin. Cause of Death: Team Kill, by Weasel
Second Death: Weasel, going feral and killing Javelin, is offed by Waller
Deaths 3-5
Nathan Fillion, Blackguard, Mon-Gal. Killed off unceremoniously in the first fight scene.
Death #6
Captain Boomerang, via Waller. James Gunn has Carte-Blanche to kill anyone, and here is where he decides to use it.
Death #7
Savant. Judging by his facial expression, he will get hard, fatal intel on project starfish
This leaves Col. Flagg and Harley, and Waller rolls up a new team. We are roughly at the half-hour mark by this point, btw.
Death #8
Peter Capaldi. Cause of Death: Car with Vanity plates.
Death #9
Col-Flagg. Mind Controled, then shot by Bloodsport
Deaath #10
Ratcatcher 2- Seems to have a "Making a Heroic Sacrifice" expression in the trailer.
It's at 99% on RT and 78 on MC. Looking like maybe the highest rated DCEU film yet? Which isn't a high bar to clear, but those are great numbers even for a Marvel film.
Haven't seen it myself but was the Synder cut really that bad? I hear its a bit long but otherwise an improvement over the theatrical edition.
Lets be clear, it's an improvement to a film in which Joss Whedon credits himself as "I tried". This is not a high bar to clear.
Mostly, you can get where they were going with the Snyder Cut, but it's not really "good" either. For every scene improved by the additional detail, there's another that's just bad in a new way. It's definitely not the trainwreck of BvS or the theatrical cut, but it's not exactly... good? either.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The accomplishment of bringing the LOTR trilogy, for me, bought a lot of good will.
I can forgive an artistic flourish, even if it arguably overstayed it’s welcome.
Snyder earned none of that good will, on account barring his really rather enjoyable Dawn of the Dead remake, he’s a pretty awful film maker.
Haven't seen it myself but was the Synder cut really that bad? I hear its a bit long but otherwise an improvement over the theatrical edition.
I think it's unquestionably better just because it's a much more coherent work and not a Frankenstein monster. The critics seemed to agree. Honestly, I found it less dreary than Whedon's version, which was just so lame and un-epic that it became kinda depressing. Like we waited for years for a live action JL movie and got handed the equivalent of a small bowl of plain oatmeal.
Snyder is a very talented guy...the problem is that he needs someone to rein in his excesses. And the Snyder cut certainly has some of those. Think the main difference between it and the vanity project called King Kong is that JL is overstuffed while KK has scenes that go on for like 12 beats longer than they should. The scene-by-scene pacing in Snyder's JL is fine...there's just a LOT in there. My recommendation is to watch it over a couple nights.
But Zack Snyder has nothing to do with this movie. I'm hoping to see it on Friday...? Gonna do the theater thing first time since, even though I have HBO Max.
But Zack Snyder has nothing to do with this movie. I'm hoping to see it on Friday...? Gonna do the theater thing first time since, even though I have HBO Max.
His name was on the credits at the end, I think he was a producer.
So the new Suicide Squad is definitely better than the last one, which admittedly I think they could have tried to make a worse move and probably would have failed, but anyway...
It's a bit of an awkward start imo. Takes about 25 minutes for the ball to really get rolling imo but once it does, not bad. Certainly it helps that the film is about more generic wet work/black ops stuff. You know, the kind of thing that makes sense for this kind of story. You know. Not a world ending apocalypse happening in plain sight that some super hero would notice and do something about, presumably.
There are times where I think Gunn's humor clashes badly with the DCU ultra-edginess all things must be maximum edge feel that creeps up from time to time but it's not that bad. Honestly, it largely enhances the humor, especially because the film is so good at fething over expectations in some parts! In a good way. Right when you're ready to groan at how cringe or cliche something is, boom haha oh wow that's not what I thought was happening.
Bit of an uneven ride at times because the set ups can be long and 'blarg' but the punch line can be quite surprising and funny when it happens.
Good popcorn flick. Fairly clever.
Turns out all they needed to make a stellar DCU movie is to hire out of the MCU XD
The_Real_Chris wrote: Special mention for the UK viewers of a Londoner shouting a ‘your mum’ joke during the final set piece…
The most memorable part of the new Star Wars trilogy for me will absolutely have to be when during the the admiral does the warp ram and it looks awesome and the movie goes dead quiet for that part, and in that silent aftermath one person in the theater just shouts Fck Yeah! and everyone laughs/cheers.
Overall enjoyed it but felt a bit to long though not enough to ruin it. I feel like they wrote it for Will Smith's Deadshot but he wasn't coming back so they just changed the name to Bloodsport.
On opening night of a packed theater for LotR: Fellowship of the Ring when it ended a women said, loudly, "That's it?" and some guy yelled "It is a trilogy you [redacted]".
Ahtman wrote: I feel like they wrote it for Will Smith's Deadshot but he wasn't coming back so they just changed the name to Bloodsport.
This Bloodsport is indistinguishable from Deadshot in every way. He even has the same initial set up of being a jailed assassin dad with a daughter he does care about who is used as his morality chain to keep him in line that has been used in 4 Suicide Squad movies now, five I think if we want to throw in Arrow. Even his costume looks more like Deadshot's than the admittedly super minor comic character.
The movie and actor are good enough, I kind of stopped caring though.
Ahtman wrote: I should add this is my least favorite adaptation of King Shark.
I feel like he was just there to be the dumbass comedic relief character.
Most of the film was carried by Bloodsport, Peacemaker, Harly, and Rat Catcher (actually thought Rat Catcher was the stand out in the film, a lot like Harly was in the first one).
The_Real_Chris wrote: The terrible thing about the dead shot replacement was simply how much better the replacement was at the role than Smith…
You're absolutely not wrong but it's really not a fair comparison. Smith is a hack actor in book. Elba has real talent. It's like comparing Mike Tyson to a guy who boxes on his Friday afternoons to get a workout.
Honestly, the entire cast of this movie is just plain better in this movie.
The_Real_Chris wrote: Special mention for the UK viewers of a Londoner shouting a ‘your mum’ joke during the final set piece…
The most memorable part of the new Star Wars trilogy for me will absolutely have to be when during the the admiral does the warp ram and it looks awesome and the movie goes dead quiet for that part, and in that silent aftermath one person in the theater just shouts Fck Yeah! and everyone laughs/cheers.
Which yes, looked cool, but my instant thought was "If that's a thing why not just do that instead of build a death star?"...
Vulcan wrote: Which yes, looked cool, but my instant thought was "If that's a thing why not just do that instead of build a death star?"...
As much as I love to harp on this myself, do we really need to drag it into a thread that isn't about star wars? The Star Wars threads are already periodically unreadable because of it.
wow.... I actually enjoyed this film, it was really good and entertaining, not perfect but damn it was a breathe of fresh air in a bloated hollyweird era.
Formosa wrote: wow.... I actually enjoyed this film, it was really good and entertaining, not perfect but damn it was a breathe of fresh air in a bloated hollyweird era.
I admit to being skeptical of the movie until;
Spoiler:
They tried to rescue flag from the camp. The stupid murder competition between Bloodsport and Peacemaker had me rolling my eyes at how hard the film was trying (too hard, or so I thought) and then you see Flag in the tent and it's like 'this is the rebel's camp, they're on our side' and just the perfect reaction from every actor as the 'gak feth' comes over them and I was laughing XD
Formosa wrote: wow.... I actually enjoyed this film, it was really good and entertaining, not perfect but damn it was a breathe of fresh air in a bloated hollyweird era.
God it feels like this movie was made for me.
All the stupid gak was great.
Then we get a tears in the rain moment from starro......and like......damn some heart.
Polka dot man seeing his mom everywhere was the best.
hotsauceman1 wrote:God it feels like this movie was made for me.
All the stupid gak was great.
Then we get a tears in the rain moment from starro......and like......damn some heart.
Polka dot man seeing his mom everywhere was the best.
I liked it when they showed the team and the versions of his mom was altered a bit by the character it was overlaying. I was disappointed when they did Starro and it was just his mom but tall.
This was just really, really good. As a nitpick, Harley's personal sidequest is hugely unnecessary and really drags down the early pacing (seriously, el presidente could be cut from the film cleanly without losing a beat). I love the "red flags" bit, but the movie would be better without it. The other odd thing was just how incredibly dark the lighting was. I had to shut off everything to see a lot of it clearly.
This was 100% my thing though. Probably going to watch it a couple more times before it leaves HBO for a bit. Just.... so good.
Agreed, it didn't appear related in any way. She could have been the survivor from the other squad, brought there and escapes just like the original version.
LunarSol wrote: This was just really, really good. As a nitpick, Harley's personal sidequest is hugely unnecessary and really drags down the early pacing (seriously, el presidente could be cut from the film cleanly without losing a beat). I love the "red flags" bit, but the movie would be better without it. The other odd thing was just how incredibly dark the lighting was. I had to shut off everything to see a lot of it clearly.
This was 100% my thing though. Probably going to watch it a couple more times before it leaves HBO for a bit. Just.... so good.
It definitely stood out. Before the punchline, I was sitting there wondering why Harley was in the movie at all (other than being Harley) but I'll admit I enjoyed the 'red flags' joke enough that I kind of forgave the film for the plot tumor.
LunarSol wrote: This was just really, really good. As a nitpick, Harley's personal sidequest is hugely unnecessary and really drags down the early pacing (seriously, el presidente could be cut from the film cleanly without losing a beat). I love the "red flags" bit, but the movie would be better without it. The other odd thing was just how incredibly dark the lighting was. I had to shut off everything to see a lot of it clearly.
This was 100% my thing though. Probably going to watch it a couple more times before it leaves HBO for a bit. Just.... so good.
It definitely stood out. Before the punchline, I was sitting there wondering why Harley was in the movie at all (other than being Harley) but I'll admit I enjoyed the 'red flags' joke enough that I kind of forgave the film for the plot tumor.
She's in the movie because Margot Robbie as Harley is hotter than mid-July asphalt in Phoenix and she'll draw eyes.
Vulcan wrote: Which yes, looked cool, but my instant thought was "If that's a thing why not just do that instead of build a death star?"...
As much as I love to harp on this myself, do we really need to drag it into a thread that isn't about star wars? The Star Wars threads are already periodically unreadable because of it.
I wasn't planning on continuing myself, for that reason.
LunarSol wrote: This was just really, really good. As a nitpick, Harley's personal sidequest is hugely unnecessary and really drags down the early pacing (seriously, el presidente could be cut from the film cleanly without losing a beat). I love the "red flags" bit, but the movie would be better without it. The other odd thing was just how incredibly dark the lighting was. I had to shut off everything to see a lot of it clearly.
This was 100% my thing though. Probably going to watch it a couple more times before it leaves HBO for a bit. Just.... so good.
It definitely stood out. Before the punchline, I was sitting there wondering why Harley was in the movie at all (other than being Harley) but I'll admit I enjoyed the 'red flags' joke enough that I kind of forgave the film for the plot tumor.
She's in the movie because Margot Robbie as Harley is hotter than mid-July asphalt in Phoenix and she'll draw eyes.
Not to mention that Margot Robbie IS Harley Quinn in much the same way that RDJ IS (or was) Iron Man.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it also flopped - US$26m return (domestic) on a US$185m budget. Ouch.
To be fair, I feel like the DCU has a reputation at this point that amounts to "We make super gakky movies about characters you like, and at times oddly good movies about characters you weren't expecting." Because the dubious quality, and the pandemic surging again right around the time of its release, the movie was facing a serious uphill battle no matter how good it was.
Amanda Waller's change in personality grate on anyone else? She seemed a lot less professional in this one.
And a lot less competent. Shame.
She came across as a far more believable bureaucrat. Stuff like trying to improve golf to impress another official/politician mid op was far more realistic...
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it also flopped - US$26m return (domestic) on a US$185m budget. Ouch.
To be fair, I feel like the DCU has a reputation at this point that amounts to "We make super gakky movies about characters you like, and at times oddly good movies about characters you weren't expecting." Because the dubious quality, and the pandemic surging again right around the time of its release, the movie was facing a serious uphill battle no matter how good it was.
Yeah, I think they have some overall brand challenges, but not every moviegoer is aware of Marvel vs. DC. Other than COVID (which I think is a big factor no matter what some of these directors want to believe), I think the underperformance can be attributed to the 'tail' from the previous film, that had good box office but stunk. Justice League had the exact same dynamic after BvS. Even without all the director drama etc. that most ticketbuyers didn't know about anyway...the interest level for JL was majorly lacking because the lead-in turned people off. First impressions and all of that.
Aquaman 2 and Shazam 2 will do fine if we get past COVID-related issues. WW84 would have done very well at the BO even though the film wasn't as good as the first. WW3 will be an interesting test, but I tend to think audiences will give it the benefit of the doubt since the first film was popular.
While I loved the film, it was seriously over budget for an R rated comic book film. Deadpool 2 did gangbusters but that was a different time, and it came off an excellent first film.
This one didn't.
Plus covid is an actual big deal and I think its changed movie behavior. While our theater was full this was the expensive theater, not the teenager gigantoplex.
I don't think Marvel vs DC has much to do with it. I'll bet common movie goers who are interested like Batman as much as Spiderman and don't care about the label distinctions so much.
It's definitely a brand challenge because while people don't care about the label distinctions, they definitely know they exist. The movies have been too inconsistent and I think their lows are more well known than their highs. Suicide Squad is kind of a niche corner of the brand to begin with, and as much as I like this one I think there's an irony in that it probably won't help much with the brand problem at all. I think common movie goers will remember how blarg Justice League was before they remember how bad the first Suicide Squad was.
EDIT: Budget wise, it probably doesn't help that they hired on a bunch of well known actors to kill off in the first twenty minutes... That was probably expensive.
Well, now that Free Guy has clearly outperformed TSS, it's probably safe to say that the stench of the original SS was all over this one just like it was for Birds of Prey. IIRC, the openings of BoP and TSS were eerily similar despite both movies being rated far more favorably than SS.
Gonna guess that this is the last we'll see of Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn for quite some time. Which is a shame since this last outing was her best IMO.
Goose LeChance wrote: Hopefully superhero fatigue is finally setting in on the general public
It's not superhero fatigue if they stop making good superhero movies.
Now I get it, superhero movies aren't your thing. But I really hope you're not hoping that there will only be BAD superhero movies in the future, so fewer of them will be made just because you don't like superhero movies.
I think people have been talking about superhero fatigue since Age of Ultron, but the big budget films actual effort was put behind keep making gangbusters.
Even the mediocre ones turn good profits when something doesn't get into the way.
I see no sign or reason to think there is any superhero fatigue. So long as the films keep being good and can avoid becoming too stale, there won't be any fatigue. At worst, the craze will die down into something more stable and keep going until the films stop being good. Saying superhero movies will die of audience fatigue is like saying studios will stop producing James Bond films due to spy movie fatigue. It doesn't make much sense. If the movies are good, people will come. If there is money to be made, someone will fill the niche.
Yeah, by all accounts Shang Chi is going to be awesome. And Eternals trailer 3 shines some light on the story and gives me some ideas for where it's going. I have zero fatigue for Marvel movies.
For some reason people always try to compare super-hero fatigue to what happened with Westerns, without realising that the amount of Western properties (movies and TV) being produced during the Western boom was several orders or magnitude more than the 4-5 comic-book movies we get a year. They are incomparable situations.
Goose LeChance wrote: Hopefully superhero fatigue is finally setting in on the general public
H.B.M.C. wrote: For some reason people always try to compare super-hero fatigue to what happened with Westerns, without realising that the amount of Western properties (movies and TV) being produced during the Western boom was several orders or magnitude more than the 4-5 comic-book movies we get a year. They are incomparable situations.
Goose LeChance wrote: Hopefully superhero fatigue is finally setting in on the general public
Hopefully?
What a weird thing to wish for.
The content hose of D+ is gushing hard to close that gap mind
H.B.M.C. wrote: For some reason people always try to compare super-hero fatigue to what happened with Westerns, without realising that the amount of Western properties (movies and TV) being produced during the Western boom was several orders or magnitude more than the 4-5 comic-book movies we get a year. They are incomparable situations.
Goose LeChance wrote: Hopefully superhero fatigue is finally setting in on the general public
Hopefully?
What a weird thing to wish for.
Not weird at all. Superhero movies have hijacked action/fantasy movies now. I don't mind them generally speaking but I love enjoying high budget blockbusters sometines and I'd like them to be something different than the usual stuff. Right now we have countless Superhero sagas, countless Star wars sagas, Fast and furious sagas and Mission Impossible saga. Anything else is B movies. Definitely too many superhero movies. Superheroes are predominant also in tv series but at least there are several legit alternatives there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: For some reason people always try to compare super-hero fatigue to what happened with Westerns, without realising that the amount of Western properties (movies and TV) being produced during the Western boom was several orders or magnitude more than the 4-5 comic-book movies we get a year. They are incomparable situations.
Part of it is also keeping things fresh imo. Westerns didn't necessarily get bad, but they got stale. We ran out of stories to tell and the stories we had told had been repeated ad naseum. The thing about superheroes is that you can slot them into all kinds of stories with all kinds of twists to keep things feeling new and exciting. It'll go stale eventually, but I see no reason to think that's happening now. Opening up the multiverse in the MCU is just paving the way for a whole bunch of new stuff to do. The genre might decline, but it's not dying anytime soon.
Superhero movies are not getting stale, because most of them aren't super hero movies at all. They are genre movies with a superhero leading them.
Black Widow= Spy movie
Capt America= WWII War Movie
Cap II= Conspiracy Thriller
GoTG= Sci- Fi movie
Ant Man= Heist movie
Suicide Squad= Dirty Dozen
Shang Chi= Modern Wuxia(?)
Birds of Prey= Girlpower movie
I could do this all day!
That is why they are not getting stale per se, but as they start to run out of genres this could change.
H.B.M.C. wrote: For some reason people always try to compare super-hero fatigue to what happened with Westerns, without realising that the amount of Western properties (movies and TV) being produced during the Western boom was several orders or magnitude more than the 4-5 comic-book movies we get a year. They are incomparable situations.
Goose LeChance wrote: Hopefully superhero fatigue is finally setting in on the general public
Hopefully?
What a weird thing to wish for.
Not weird at all. Superhero movies have hijacked action/fantasy movies now. I don't mind them generally speaking but I love enjoying high budget blockbusters sometines and I'd like them to be something different than the usual stuff. Right now we have countless Superhero sagas, countless Star wars sagas, Fast and furious sagas and Mission Impossible saga. Anything else is B movies. Definitely too many superhero movies. Superheroes are predominant also in tv series but at least there are several legit alternatives there.
Sounds like the problem is the saga, not the superhero.
I'm fine with it so long as quality is maintained. There's a reason I deliberately skipped the last installment of the second one; the quality of that saga had terminally declined.
Sounds like the problem is the saga, not the superhero.
I'm fine with it so long as quality is maintained. There's a reason I deliberately skipped the last installment of the second one; the quality of that saga had terminally declined.
Both actually. I'm not really a fan of superheroes, I'd like to watch 1 good movie about superheroes every 2-3 years, definitely not 4-5 mediocre ones per year but they have the monopoly of high budget action movies. DC movies are unbearable to me and I decided to entirely skip them long ago, Marvel ones sometimes ok or even pretty good but lots of boring episodes as well, last movie I actually enjoyed was Infinity War. At least there's a SW every 3 or more years and there aren't many space operas around, so even if SW is mediocre (I think it is) I don't feel the same level of fatigue I have towards superheroes.
Easy E wrote: Superhero movies are not getting stale, because most of them aren't super hero movies at all. They are genre movies with a superhero leading them.
Black Widow= Spy movie
Capt America= WWII War Movie
Cap II= Conspiracy Thriller
GoTG= Sci- Fi movie
Ant Man= Heist movie
Suicide Squad= Dirty Dozen
Shang Chi= Modern Wuxia(?)
Birds of Prey= Girlpower movie
I could do this all day!
That is why they are not getting stale per se, but as they start to run out of genres this could change.
I’d say that’s more the MCU’s specific strength. Sure there are common themes to each (the newly forged hero finding their way and their responsibilities, the sequels further testing their moral mettle against sins of the past and so on), but because it’s applied to a wider mix of film genres as you demonstrated, they don’t feel especially formulaic.
Each entry more or less stands on its own two feet, and even the dodgier entries such as Thor The Dark World are still pretty enjoyable.
I don't think its fatigue but my Super watching is starting to go the way of my comicbook hobby in that I'll follow actors rather than heroes (didnt work out well for Guardians 2 mind), post Endgame only Venom and Aquaman tickled my funnybook bone (honorable mention to Shazam for being not awful), heck I can't even be bothered with Legends despite having Johnny C and the distracting Ms Lotz
But have to agree that Margot is wonderful in the role of Harley - not seen WW2 yet but have enjoyed quite a few of the more recent 
