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Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/04 12:15:10


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I think they've said that townsfolk like the guards that come in 3s will have some degree of customisation in one of the live streams (but not any that are single)

but I can't find it now annoyingly


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/04 12:48:04


Post by: lord_blackfang


I really don't need rooms but that townsfolk pack is going to be such absurd value that I'll probably be able to consider the rooms essentially free with the 85€ pledge. If I can swap them for something like stairs or bridges that'd be lovely too.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/04 12:50:26


Post by: Dolnikan


It's a shame that most of the townsfolk are guards. Those are figures that most people already have minis for, whereas just normal noncombatants are always in short supply. I'll have to look at the details when it comes out, because I might very well end up going for this.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/05 19:58:39


Post by: Smokestack


So no "miniature only" level? That may make me sit this out.

Depends on how big i go in of the Fireforge KS... Hmmm...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/05 21:02:40


Post by: Alpharius


I wish there was a 'roof' option for these rooms...

...unless there is one?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/05 22:09:46


Post by: lord_blackfang


Roofs will be revealed on Thursday


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/05 22:55:16


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 Smokestack wrote:
So no "miniature only" level? That may make me sit this out.

Depends on how big i go in of the Fireforge KS... Hmmm...


they don't make you buy stuff you don't want so i'm sure you'll be able to get the minis, you just wont get the stretch goals free, but you should be able to add them on too if you want them

it will be a question of what's cheaper (it could be getting the cheapest pledge that gets the stretches and dumping or selling the terrain)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 13:24:26


Post by: Smokestack


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
 Smokestack wrote:
So no "miniature only" level? That may make me sit this out.

Depends on how big i go in of the Fireforge KS... Hmmm...


they don't make you buy stuff you don't want so i'm sure you'll be able to get the minis, you just wont get the stretch goals free, but you should be able to add them on too if you want them

it will be a question of what's cheaper (it could be getting the cheapest pledge that gets the stretches and dumping or selling the terrain)


I asked them through Facebook if there was any chance of a miniatures only pledge. They basically said the same thing you did

“ Hi Bill, probably not. But the miniature set will be available as an add-on.”


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 17:39:17


Post by: DaveC


KS page has been updated.

Townsfolk set has been changed - Guards go from 3 duplicates to 2 but there are unrevealed designs so hopefully they are adding more variants. There are also female guards now. If those 10 silhouettes are actual models and you get 2 that would bring the number back up to 67 per the original image. I'm sure they'll explain more in tonight's livestream.

Spoiler:


Add on packs price TBC.

Stairs, Street Lanterns, Balustrades, extra trim sets etc.

Spoiler:


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 17:42:55


Post by: lord_blackfang


Brave of them to commit to tooling at least one additional sprue right off the bat in place of a third copy of the basic one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Facebook live now https://www.facebook.com/dungeonsandlasers/videos/3860504137350749


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Transparent plastic water!

Sorry, Alpharius, I cropped most of the roof


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 20:26:27


Post by: DaveC


Livestream #1 - Sewers Tour

Some other details

Sewer floor tiles will be cast in transparent plastic
Ghost NPCs in transparent plastic - add on
Double width water tiles will be available (no border)
One roof design only, 1 side only no interior detail - add on
City streets available with double width tile with no border
Townsfolk starter - silhouettes are extra unique NPCs they are not guards, guards reduced to 2 copies of each so 1/3 less guards now - it's what people asked for
Lantern pack design is WIP.
No docks they have been dropped

D&L2 backers will get a sample frame in their packs.




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 22:36:01


Post by: lord_blackfang


This is going to easily be the biggest and cheapest HIPS Kickstarter ever by an enourmous margin and Archon already has the top 4 spots right now.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 22:58:47


Post by: Gallahad


I don't know how they are affording it, but count me in.

The townsfolk in plastic is what convinced me to open my wallet.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/08 23:35:14


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 Gallahad wrote:
I don't know how they are affording it, but count me in.

The townsfolk in plastic is what convinced me to open my wallet.


they've got all (?) the aspects in house now,concept art(? not sure if they've an in house artist or that's been handled by freelancers) 3d modelling, 'cutting' the figures for production, mould tooling and injection moulding so their costs will be a lot, lot lower than if they had to contract out any or all of these,

(and they've clearly been investing as we've seen them buy in additional machines over the plastic KS projects)

they're also not going to have to worry about timing things to hit a pre-booked production slot which probably represents a real saving on salaries which seem to have been an issue on a fair few failed KS

and the tech getting cheaper and smaller has no doubt helped a lot too, I doubt it would have been possible even 10 years ago with the same (inflation adjusted) income


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/13 23:26:08


Post by: ced1106


I failed my perception roll and didn't notice that the D&L3 rooms don't have doors!

Take a look at this D&L2 update how they *might* be selling the functional doors (doors that open and close) as add-on sets in D&L3. You get 2x doors (and only doors) matching each room set Archon offers. If you want door frames to go along with the doors (eg. because you have a door to a room you didn't buy), you can buy the frame add-on. So if you buy the same number of each of the rooms and want matching doors that open and close, you're okay, but if you only want to buy multiples of one of the rooms... well, look at the update. As said, Archon will be selling the doors and door frames separately as add-ons, but this sorta defeats the purpose of inexpensive terrain, as well as buying multiples of only the rooms you want. Overall, though, the KS should be a good value, with all the SG's they throw in, the inexpensive miniatures, and the core sets. Also, of course, it's difficult to find anyone that makes village game tiles, although I hear good things about Battle Systems...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-second-edition/posts/3158361


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 03:34:28


Post by: Orlanth


Well that is a small downer, I bought five door sets and now find that the doors will not add extra wall tiles to my set, and the doors for sets I do not have will be wasted unless I find a way to convert them.

I will have significantly less than what I ordered, but I ordered enough that it should be too big of an issue.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 08:54:54


Post by: lord_blackfang


The door debacle is quite the debacle.

Archon are putting big money towards fixing it by cutting 2 new molds, but then this requires customers to also spend even more money to get what they thought they already paid for. Looks like lose/lose to me.

Step 1 should have been refunding the door addons. Then maybe the option to buy doors with or without frames in D&L3.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 10:20:11


Post by: Orlanth


Its a total FUBAR to anyone who made lob sided purchases. Didn't buy any of that room, cant use that door unless you convert and I don't think it will be an easy conversion job, especially for the SF doors.

I made a large order but it was lobsided, some rooms I want more of than others. Looks like I will need some doorway sprues.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 10:22:46


Post by: ced1106


Yup. Step 0 is to have doors in the rooms and core sets in the first place.

Archon's fixing a problem -- and not fixing another problem. The new molds are expensive, but don't fix the situation where someone wants multiples of a room, but not multiples of a door from another room. i guess if Archon uses a KS model, this works, but I can't see it working retail. Who's going to buy a wooden cottage that has no door? And, when they do buy the wooden cottage, how will they react when they have to also buy doors of sets they don't (yet) want? Hopefully, Archon will clip off the pieces suchthat retailers will get a room with doors, just as some companies will sell you pieces already cut off from the sprue (eg. Mantic).

> Looks like lose/lose to me.

Yep! Way too much of KS is lose / lose. Delays, miscommunications, project management failures... Well, as long as I get my shinies at a still-reasonable price. Wonder if I should get a second box of Townsfolk for $20 even though I don't need them...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 11:09:25


Post by: lord_blackfang


Tooling 6 doors for different themes on one sprue was pretty dumb in the first place, yea, frames or no frames. Now they're tooling the 6 frames also together on one sprue so you can at least get 1:1 doors and frames, but you're still going to have too many or too few of particular ones depending on your room choices.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 11:50:37


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


But if they had to add a largish door to the room sprue what could they drop to make space for it, basically it eats up the space of a full wall section,

I'm guessing that's why they originally planned not to have doors in the first place


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 12:01:18


Post by: lord_blackfang


It could possibly be in the frame itself, with very thin plastic at the join. The original Cities of Death terrain was like this, doors molded closed but with a deep recesses all around that was easily cut through. Then you just have to squeeze the hinges on the connector sprue or something.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 13:54:41


Post by: Albino Squirrel


I don't know, it seems pretty clear to me from the picture what you'd be getting, and that you'd just be getting the doors, not the doorways. Yes, it is a pretty dumb way to do it because there is a lot of waste, but I don't see how people were deceived by it. People who didn't like the idea should have just not ordered those sprues. I don't see why they need to make up for it.

It would certainly be better to have included doors with the sets so you'd have the right number of each. But then they'd have to take something out.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/14 18:46:28


Post by: ced1106


As it is, they have to make two more molds to "fix" the problem, have another mold for static doors, and a mold for the functional doors or something to that effect. That's four sets of molds, already. One more, and they would have had an additional mold for each set, that could have been used for doors *and* additional elements.

But the reality is, that, at least at retail, when someone buys a village terrain set, and to a lesser extent, a dungeon, they expect enough components to make a house.

WizKids made an error with their initial dungeon and town sets. Not all customers wanted half-walls, so WK eventually released both full-wall packs, and sets with full-walls. If WizKids can't change the conventions of selling terrain packs, I doubt Archon can, either, at least at the retail level. KS backers may forgive a creator, but retail customers won't.

So... KS as usual. (: Everything's obvious in hindsight, and Archon may not wish to sell D&L retail. Or they may correct the sets in D&L4. FWP.


EDIT: Preview page has a few updates. Townsfolk miniatures still has 60+ miniatures. You can get the Fantasy Core as two rooms.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/15 21:22:38


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 DaveC wrote:
The official website has some updated images









Still quite lame how few civilians there are.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/15 22:20:34


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/16 00:44:11


Post by: Gallahad


 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.


Well, it doesn't help that Reaper's Townsfolk are poorly sculpted.

Fireforge's Folk Rabble was enthusiastically received (and purchased).

What D&L is offering here looks great. I'm basically planning to pledge just to get the Townsfolk.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/16 03:57:49


Post by: Orlanth


 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.


This is sadly true. I have been an exception, I bought Townsfolk for Bones 5 twice and bought the Fireforge peasant set and have other miniatures built as commonfolk, notably kitbashes with Frostgrave minis and peasant sprue arms.
Even then I am an extreme case and my peasants are diluted into four categories, angry mob, refugees/travellers, working peasants and bystanders. Many are added to group bases as a scene chorus, a mob with firebrands and pitchforks is a single entity in many respects, its impotent outside the herd. To be frank most of my civvie minis are game objects, panicky objective markers to usher around, kill, steal or protect.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/16 07:42:59


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Gallahad wrote:
 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.


Well, it doesn't help that Reaper's Townsfolk are poorly sculpted.

Fireforge's Folk Rabble was enthusiastically received (and purchased).

What D&L is offering here looks great. I'm basically planning to pledge just to get the Townsfolk.


Are you implying anything Reaper is well-sculpted?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/16 07:53:56


Post by: lord_blackfang


I stopped buying Reaper simply because they're more like truescale 35mm than anything resembling 28.

I have 3 boxes of Fireforge peasants so clearly happy to spend money on civvies.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/16 07:56:20


Post by: DaveC


They mentioned in one of the videos that they have around 60 other townsfolk planned for the stretch goals, there’s concepts in an earlier post. If all you want is townsfolk just get the townsfolk starter and the stretch goals 3 set for around $40 to $50 plus shipping that will give around 120 minis plus you end up with all the other SG stuff as a bonus which may include a giant and dragon.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/16 07:57:35


Post by: lord_blackfang


 DaveC wrote:
They mentioned in one of the videos that they have around 60 other townsfolk planned for the stretch goals, there’s concepts in an earlier post. If all you want is townsfolk just get the townsfolk starter and the stretch goals 3 set for around $40 to $50 plus shipping that will give around 120 minis plus you end up with all the other SG stuff as a bonus.


4 of that is probably what I want since I don't need walls


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/18 19:44:34


Post by: Orlanth


 Gallahad wrote:

Well, it doesn't help that Reaper's Townsfolk are poorly sculpted.


Are they? Have you seen them. They are simple sculpts but frankly for peasants less is more. I ordered this add on twice.



I like that it includes some children and a granny. I wish I had more like that. I will be converting up some Wargames Atlantic hobbits for more children.

 Gallahad wrote:

Fireforge's Folk Rabble was enthusiastically received (and purchased).


Yes those are very good, and I am using them to kitbash other civilians to avoid copypasta.

 Gallahad wrote:

What D&L is offering here looks great. I'm basically planning to pledge just to get the Townsfolk.


I will certainly be getting Townsfolk and sewers but I am unlikely to buy the houses. There are so many better ways to get fantasy houses now, and I am not convinced buy the square grid town builder. I would rather 3e print houses from numerous sites and buy plastic or laser cut house kits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Are you implying anything Reaper is well-sculpted?


I prefer Reaper for their monsters and the odd mini I cannot kitbash from hard plastic multipose kits. There is a lot of junk in a Bones kickstarter, but there are many gems also. All in all Reaper are positive enough I keep coming back, just not for their paints.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/19 11:11:23


Post by: lord_blackfang


Got my stuff

Biggest pile of sprues I ever got for 200€


(it's two deep)

I fear the true cost will be bleeding hands from all the clipping

A few stretch goal bitz suffer from last minute resizing to fit the sprue and ended up being not quite functional (like a cryo pod clearly too small for a 28mm human, and a pile of 1mm skulls)

But at this price, whatevers!



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/19 12:37:03


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


they shall become pet cryo pods,

after all Jones the cat needs his own bed (even if he doesn't use it and nips in with one of the crew at the end of the day)

looking forward to getting mine (it will be a surprise how many stretch goal sprues I added to my order, I can't remember)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/21 15:14:58


Post by: DaveC


3 new female adventurers Dwarf, Human and Orc



And marketplace concepts



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/21 15:44:50


Post by: lord_blackfang


I'm gonna need a bigger paycheck.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/22 23:24:47


Post by: ced1106


If you were interested in the Archon Dungeons and Lasers 3 village terrain and miniatures KS, add yourself to their notification. We're pretty close to their pre-KS unlock of a novelty miniature.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-third-edition

7600+ Notification sign ups (so-called Followers) so far!



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/23 07:54:17


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


My wife and I have some of the Reaper villagers in metal and they are fine sculpts. We also have some of the Reaper Dreadmere characters in Bones Black and they are also fine sculpts. We are eagerly awaiting our Bones V pledge.

We are also eagerly awaiting our Dungeons and Lasers 2 pledge. The D&L 1 bits and pieces we have gotten on eBay, as well as some Kazumi Temple pieces from Archon Studios’ earlier Rampart KS have been excellent so we are looking forward to D&L 3.




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/23 11:50:32


Post by: Hanskrampf


Not sure if there is any new information on there (and from the D&L II box)



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/23 11:53:57


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Hanskrampf wrote:
Not sure if there is any new information on there (and from the D&L II box)



Thank you, very informative

[Thumb - link broke.PNG]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/23 14:01:50


Post by: DaveC


KS launches 4th of May and will run for 2 weeks.

No interest in the campaign but it's added value at no extra cost so happy days for those that want it.





And for the Big Surprise - we introduce a complete 5E Scenario set in Woodhaven "Adventurer's Trail ." All of you will get one printed paperback book per pledge. In it, you will find a story, characters' stats and descriptions, mini-maps, and many more—all written by Ben Allsop.




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/24 21:31:54


Post by: Alpharius


Hey!

I see roofs in that picture!

I'm in if I can get roofs...

This KS might be able to fill a need for terrain for a lot of games that I have... the theme will work well!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/25 19:35:14


Post by: ced1106


Roofs (and doors) are sold-separately as add-ons.

See you in the KS!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/25 20:45:32


Post by: lord_blackfang


I think I might even get some rooms just so all the wall bits I got in previous stretch goals don't go to waste. Quite an insidious marketing strategy.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/26 02:43:28


Post by: Alpharius


 ced1106 wrote:
Roofs (and doors) are sold-separately as add-ons.

See you in the KS!


Excellent news - and yes, see you there!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/26 14:33:47


Post by: DaveC


A few updates

The town sewers now count as 2 rooms rather than 1 when picking your pledge. ( uses 2 of your 5 room picks for a village pledge) the contents will be reworked.

The Townsfolk starter image has been up dated to fill in the silhouettes



Also they are planning 1 more set in translucent plastic and have a vote up on Facebook - docks seems to be winning?





Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/27 07:54:22


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


We just got our D&L 2 pledge (with some D&L 1 legacy pieces). It is pretty awesome. Very cost effective. The stretchgoal accessories are particularly incredible. We love them.

It is difficult to see how we will integrate dungeon pieces with our Dwarven Forge dungeon pieces so I am trying to figure out how we can instead use them for surface building pieces once Woodhaven launches.

There was a flyer in the box with this cool image...

[Thumb - 5793C585-E30A-4987-8516-D0D99680E47D.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/27 09:36:39


Post by: The_Real_Chris


Wow all over this for the townsfolk!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/27 17:43:05


Post by: DaveC


The new Sewers set (now counts as 2 rooms)






and the roofs add on


[Thumb - Roofs.png]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/27 19:00:51


Post by: lord_blackfang


While the sculpt is great I'm not convinced the transparent plastic is a worthwhile gimmick when you can see the clips under the tiles and there's still the plug holes at every intersection.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/27 19:15:46


Post by: DaveC


True but it doesn't detract from the overall package better to have it and have the option to paint over if you want.

Just noticed the D&L 1 and 2 SG add ons are for the fantasy elements only, they'll probably price them the same to cover their costs but they'll have a 1/3rd less content without the Sci-Fi bits. I think that's better than increasing the price and getting the Sci-Fi bits. SG 2 is still a good buy if it stays $20 and I'll probably get another set, SG 1 not so much - but there's bits I'd like a 2nd set of.


[Thumb - SG.png]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/27 22:50:49


Post by: ced1106


Any thoughts on how many roof sets for each room? I think each room has 9 squares, and each roof 4 squares of coverage, so one roof set per 2-story room??

EDIT: If you don't like the sewers (or the warlock's room) you can kludge sewers with a fantasy core set and some 2D printouts of sewers (and magic circles).

Found some 2D sewers free on DriveThruRPG : https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?keywords=sewer++free&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/28 11:25:40


Post by: DaveC


 ced1106 wrote:
Any thoughts on how many roof sets for each room? I think each room has 9 squares, and each roof 4 squares of coverage, so one roof set per 2-story room??


They’ve made the roof set bigger it will cost more but this makes more sense and should cover 3 or 4 buildings depending on layouts ( or 1 mansion!)


[Thumb - 807CBE4E-A586-4EDB-AA5D-DFBBE293564B.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/28 11:35:03


Post by: lord_blackfang


Hm, looks like there's going to be a bit of a break in the slope if your roof is more than 1 deep, and there's no ridge piece so floorplans are limited limited to even-numbered widths (or a flat middle using floor tiles)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/28 12:21:19


Post by: Orlanth


My D&L2 arrived today.

All I can say is: "Yo Dawg, I heard I like dragons, so I got me some dragons to go with my dragons."


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 07:49:14


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


My latest blog entry focuses largely on Dungeons and Lasers 2.

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2021/04/29/the-backlog-grows/

We will definitely be backing D&L 3, it is just a question of how big our pledge will be.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 11:58:14


Post by: DaveC


1 of these 2 minis will become the Early Bird (first 48 hours) bonus miniature and the other a stretch goal (vote on Facebook)



They’ve also shown the castle crenellations and full building mock ups with the street set. I still think the castle needs less windows and more solid walls.




[Thumb - 5439AC79-E7D7-47AF-BF72-E46CF9E2D8E5.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 12:04:09


Post by: Orlanth


They are really ramping up to big things.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 15:05:23


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Wait, WHAT?

They're going to be putting their space crusade figures back in action, I'm assuming, in plastic?

Crap, they're really going to get me to commit to this next campaign, aren't they? Dang.

I built and painted most of that range they did. It was part of what got me thinking about doing Youtube stuff in the first place, but then they stopped, I traded off most of them, and I'd been bummed about not having the big guy with the sword ever since.

Y'all better vote for him!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 19:02:46


Post by: DaveC


Pledge levels and prices

Village €85 - 5 Rooms, 1 Townsfolk Starter and Stretch Goals
Town €169 - 11 Rooms, 1 Townsfolk Starter and Stretch Goals
City €249 - 17 Rooms, 1 Townsfolk Starter and Stretch Goals
Miniatures only - €29 - 1 Townsfolk Starter
Dragons only - €99 - Pick any 7 Dragons

Spoiler:


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 19:31:33


Post by: lord_blackfang


Multiples of the 85€ base pledge are better deals than the higher pledges, just saying.

The middle pledge saves you 1€ over getting two base and has the same contents minus one set of stretch goals, the large pledge saves you 6€ over getting three base and has the same contents minus two sets of stretch goals.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 19:42:15


Post by: DaveC


Assuming they allow multiples of a pledge level with multiple stretch goals like last time multiple Village pledges is definitely the way to go. They haven't said one way or another yet they could restrict it if it cost them more than anticipated last time. Most people are assuming it will be the same so hopefully they will confirm it sooner rather than later.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 20:34:56


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Dragons were $119 for 7 (well 6 + the free one) so if the $99 price sticks (and there will be complaining) it's a bargain

well assuming its in a pledge level that gets stretch goals, if it isn't then that's why


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/29 20:37:19


Post by: DaveC


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Dragons were $119 for 7 (well 6 + the free one) so if the $99 price sticks (and there will be complaining) it's a bargain

well assuming its in a pledge level that gets stretch goals, if it isn't then that's why


It's €99 the KS is in Euro this time despite some of the graphics still showing $. €99 = $120 same price as before.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/30 19:34:10


Post by: DaveC


Nubble was picked as the EB mini - first 48 hours

The rest of the prices are now up (except the roofs) - they haven't upped the prices from the last KS just converted $ to €. D&L 2 SG at €17 is a steal even without the Sci-Fi bits.

Stairs - €5 (1 set of stairs)
Townsfolk starter add on - €29
Extra set of 3rd edition SG - €25
Set of 10 street lamps - €5
Balustrades - 6 short 4 long - €8
Battlements - 6 short- 4 long - €8
Trim pack - €8
Extra Sewer or Fantasy set - €34
Extra room - €17
Stone Bridge - €9
1 Dragon - €29
Set of 7 dragons add on - €99
D&L 1 SG - €17
D&L 2 SG - €17

Spoiler:


Spoiler:



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/30 20:38:21


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Multiples of the 85€ base pledge are better deals than the higher pledges, just saying.

The middle pledge saves you 1€ over getting two base and has the same contents minus one set of stretch goals, the large pledge saves you 6€ over getting three base and has the same contents minus two sets of stretch goals.


This is how it has working since D&L1. I only buy basic pledges as they stack the stretchgoals and the D&L stretchgoals get impressive quickly. With D&L the stretchgoals have already started and the campaign has yet to begin.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/04/30 22:04:08


Post by: ced1106


Thanks, Dave!

SG1 has two larger stone stairs, so may be a better deal for some, particularly sf gamers, than two sets of the new stone stairs.

Any indication if we'll have new functional doors, for the village rooms? Or do all or some of the functional doors fit into the village rooms? TIA!

EDIT: Dang. Preview page says the KS is only 12 days long, but the preview page comments mention 14?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 00:34:24


Post by: DaveC


Preview page length and goal aren't accurate, just placeholders. The KS is 2 weeks long.

No word on new doors for the new themes.

Yeah there's parts in the old SG sets that are also available separately but it's better to buy the SG set. The bridge on it's own is €9. It also comes in the SG2 set for €17 so for €8 more you get all the extras.

Note there are no Sci fi parts in this KS and they have been removed from the SG packs so they are fantasy only so you won't get sci fi stairs here.

It's funny for Rampart 1 I ordered some extras that are on mixed sprues so they just threw in the full sprue. But for Rampart 2 and D&L 2 there's parts like the columns that are on mixed sprues but they clipped them out and just provided the listed parts which is fair enough that's what I paid for but I preferred the original option! I'm not sure they will go to that bother for the mixed fantasy and sci fi sprues here but they might.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 10:26:04


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yea I always just got full sets and it worked out better than getting all the individual bitz, like in Rampart 2 I wanted stairs ($3 each) and all 3 stypes of balustrade ($1 each) and then it was just another 4$ to get the whole pack and I ended up with I think 11 stretch goal packs.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 10:46:55


Post by: Archon Studio


@Grumpy Gnome

Hi, thanks for the review!

Regarding miniatures quality, we had slightly different CNC processes for stretch goals, thus, the one on the SG terrain sprues may not fully justify the quality of the final miniatures.

Here are some mobile camera shots of our latest miniatures, utilizing our latest CNC process, for Wolfenstein the board game, and you may expect at least the same quality for DnL3 sprues.

Thanks again for your support!


Automatically Appended Next Post:







Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 10:52:08


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yea that's crazy good.

All I ask is make sure the scaling is right to fit common gaming miniatures, and this includes other bits. In D&L2 stretch goals some parts were clearly resized upwards or downwards to better fit in the sprue and we got some very silly pieces like 1mm skulls and lanterns larger than a man's torso.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 11:12:14


Post by: Archon Studio


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea that's crazy good.

All I ask is to make sure the scaling is right to fit common gaming miniatures, and this includes other bits. In D&L2 stretch goals, some parts were clearly resized upwards or downwards to better fit in the sprue and we got some very silly pieces like 1mm skulls and lanterns larger than a man's torso.


Thanks for the feedback, frankly, I remember resizing elements for Rampart, due to various production issues but not sure about DnL2 nor DnL1, but I'll ask in the office on Tuesday.

As for the scale of miniatures here is a pic of the townsfolks vs GW piece. I hope this helps.







Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 11:20:31


Post by: lord_blackfang


An Ork isn't an ideal scale comparison but it shows you are a man of culture


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 12:01:23


Post by: Archon Studio


 lord_blackfang wrote:
An Ork isn't an ideal scale comparison but it shows you are a man of culture


hehe fair enough, I found in the office also GW zombie and skeleton model. Maybe this will help.





Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 12:14:10


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Nice looking folk, they shall be mine


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 12:34:29


Post by: Orlanth


Archon, can we have confirmation whether the seven dragon pledge gets stretchgoals.

Also is the dragon of Scharmonrog listed as a single again.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 12:43:46


Post by: DaveC


Thanks for the updated scale pics Archon looks good to me.

I see the roof set is now a room that's definitely a better option. So that values it at €17 as an add on. It has 2 sets of trims which on their own cost €16.




[Thumb - roof.png]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 14:59:12


Post by: Orlanth


We have single tile square hip roofs, it also needs single tile gable roofs so we can run 1xX structures.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 16:54:21


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Thanks for the additional photos Archon Studios.

My wife and I are pleased with our D&L 1 and 2 pieces. We are definitely backing 3... in large part because we love how you listened to backer feedback. The diversity of miniatures is brilliant.

I have been messing around with Cursed Cathedral pieces today and definitely think this stuff works best as “bits box kits for building terrain” rather than complete rooms. We will likely also be mixing themes together. This seems the best way around, “I just need one more piece of X!”

Either way, we are very appreciative of all the folks at Archon Studios and thank you for your hard work in bringing these fun bits to us all.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 19:36:59


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Too much temptation coming with this one.

I've got to say I'm starting to get impatient for this one to start!

Those Wolfenstein figures look good too. Gotta start working on my Chronicle X sprues first...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 21:19:54


Post by: Dreyf


Archon Studio wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, frankly, I remember resizing elements for Rampart, due to various production issues but not sure about DnL2 nor DnL1, but I'll ask in the office on Tuesday.
I can confirm that for D&L1 strech goals, there are some scale issues (with some skulls or the axe, by example.). But most of the items wera pretty good.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 21:21:52


Post by: Alpharius


I look forward to someone in this thread figuring out the best way to pledge for buildings and roofs and letting us know.

This one looks to have a few options...could get...complex and confusing quickly!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/01 23:19:40


Post by: ced1106


Nice!

Any info on the mill or stables, previously previewed as concept art?

Definitely want some functional doors with their own frames...

> I look forward to someone in this thread figuring out the best way to pledge for buildings and roofs and letting us know.

Each room set is roughly 9 game tiles. The roof set covers 20 game tiles Of course, you won't always be able to use all the roof pieces for two room sets, depending on how you laid out your rooms.

Each trimming design is room-specific, so you may want more trimming. Or not? It's not like you need trimming to attach roof bits to roofs as much as you need connectors to attach walls to floors??

More FB pics!

Spoiler:


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/02 07:07:59


Post by: Archon Studio


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Thanks for the additional photos Archon Studios.

My wife and I are pleased with our D&L 1 and 2 pieces. We are definitely backing 3... in large part because we love how you listened to backer feedback. The diversity of miniatures is brilliant.

I have been messing around with Cursed Cathedral pieces today and definitely think this stuff works best as “bits box kits for building terrain” rather than complete rooms. We will likely also be mixing themes together. This seems the best way around, “I just need one more piece of X!”

Either way, we are very appreciative of all the folks at Archon Studios and thank you for your hard work in bringing these fun bits to us all.



Thanks for your support and I'll pass your feedback to our team when we back in the office on Tuesday!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orlanth wrote:
Archon, can we have confirmation whether the seven dragon pledge gets stretchgoals.

Also is the dragon of Scharmonrog listed as a single again.


Yes, there are now 7 Dragons instead of 6 at the same pledge level but no Stretch Goals. That's based on feedback from the previous campaign. The majority of only Dragons pledge backers were not interested in the terrain SG plus some were asking during the campaigne to add Dragons specific only SG which we had no plans for.

The Dragon of Schmargonrog is made under license from Viva La Dirt League, hence, it is sold separately. Although I think the team is working on the largest, King pledge, that could include that dragon in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ced1106 wrote:
Nice!

Any info on the mill or stables, previously previewed as concept art?

Definitely want some functional doors with their own frames...

> I look forward to someone in this thread figuring out the best way to pledge for buildings and roofs and letting us know.

Each room set is roughly 9 game tiles. The roof set covers 20 game tiles Of course, you won't always be able to use all the roof pieces for two room sets, depending on how you laid out your rooms.

Each trimming design is room-specific, so you may want more trimming. Or not? It's not like you need trimming to attach roof bits to roofs as much as you need connectors to attach walls to floors??

More FB pics!

Spoiler:


I'll ask the team on Tuesday but I guess the Mill/Stable should be part of SG.
The roofing set has plenty of bits. I guess you may not need more, alternatively, you can always use the DnL2 "L" clip.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DaveC wrote:
Thanks for the updated scale pics Archon looks good to me.

I see the roof set is now a room that's definitely a better option. So that values it at €17 as an add on. It has 2 sets of trims which on their own cost €16.





IIRC, roofs + trims in that set are 2 injection tools and then there is 3rd one just for trims, but I'll be able to confirm that on Tuesday. Thanks!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/02 10:10:41


Post by: Orlanth


Archon Studio wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Archon, can we have confirmation whether the seven dragon pledge gets stretchgoals.

Also is the dragon of Scharmonrog listed as a single again.


Yes, there are now 7 Dragons instead of 6 at the same pledge level but no Stretch Goals. That's based on feedback from the previous campaign. The majority of only Dragons pledge backers were not interested in the terrain SG plus some were asking during the campaigne to add Dragons specific only SG which we had no plans for.


The stretchgoals are half the value. I ordered Dragons Lair because it included the same stretch goals as the dungeon pledges, some items in stretchgoals are needed in bulk, tables beds and chair for instance, the more you have the more reasonably you can make a barracks or main hall.
Also for the record there were 7 dragons last time, six plus Origon. With stretchgoals there could be eight if the ghost dragon stretchgoal is unlocked. It would be strange for you to think that someone pledging for dragons doesn't want dragon stretchgoals.

Anyway I have two Dragon Lair pledges under my belt already from D&L2. Without stretchgoals included I might have bought one, and maybe not even that. Please rethink this.

Archon Studio wrote:

The Dragon of Schmargonrog is made under license from Viva La Dirt League, hence, it is sold separately. Although I think the team is working on the largest, King pledge, that could include that dragon in it.


At $35 only you get fewer sales and Viva Dirt League get less money, frankly I could not afford that dragon. You might get better results if the Dragon of Schmargonrog counts as two dragons in the Dragons Lair pledges. I wonder if they will accept 2/7th of a Dragons Lair as fair payment for the licenced dragon. I would be more tempted to accept the dragon under those terms.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/02 13:44:14


Post by: DaveC


The giant render is on the KS page - €800k stretch goal. At 4.7 inches he's a little taller than a Mancrusher Gargant but should make a nice alt. Gargant (the goblin is a separate removal piece)


[Thumb - IMG-0592.jpg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/02 14:37:19


Post by: lord_blackfang


Certainly the nicest looking plastic giant in its size category.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/02 16:20:25


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


I think that giant will go nicely with our Blacklist Games Fantasy Series 1 Giantess.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/02 18:34:22


Post by: Orlanth


I don't like the pose. Well the pose is fine, but it's not exactly spammable.
If backers are going to end up with two or three giants all the same from various pledges it pays for them to have more generic poses.

Now if they have arm variants I will recant this statement and cheer.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/03 15:32:27


Post by: Archon Studio


Small update to all UK-based backers. Pledges above 135 GBP will be deducted by 20% VAT, which will be paid by the backer to HMRC Customs, upon receiving the parcel.





Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/03 15:35:29


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Makes sense (I hope you don't have too many backers incorrectly picking them as the look cheaper and they don't read the text properly)

it's going to make the pledge manager interesting for us in the UK too if we want multiple smaller pledges/add ons that add up to over £135 (hopefully you'll be able to code it to deal with things in the same way)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/03 15:41:08


Post by: Archon Studio


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Makes sense (I hope you don't have too many backers incorrectly picking them as they look cheaper and they don't read the text properly)


Luckily, there is an option to select "shipping pledges to specific countries", in this case, it will be locked only to UK (Northern Ireland I guess as well).
But, the pledge manager, that's a different cup of tea and it will be challenging :]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/03 16:31:18


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


phew, that makes it easier for the KS at least


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/03 23:09:48


Post by: Orlanth


Archon Studio wrote:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Makes sense (I hope you don't have too many backers incorrectly picking them as they look cheaper and they don't read the text properly)


Luckily, there is an option to select "shipping pledges to specific countries", in this case, it will be locked only to UK (Northern Ireland I guess as well).
But, the pledge manager, that's a different cup of tea and it will be challenging :]


Northern Ireland customers are entitled to tariff free trade with the EU.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 17:53:21


Post by: DaveC


Pre Launch show is starting now 10 minutes to launch.

https://www.facebook.com/dungeonsandlasers/videos/836200677243503/

It looks like the Sewers are now a rapid delivery option (+€17 shipping) as they are already tooled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now live and funded

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-third-edition/


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 18:17:53


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Lasers and Dungeons oh my,

note the free Nubble mini is only for those pledging 85+ euros ( in the first 48 hours)



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 18:18:28


Post by: Orlanth


Backed. In before fulfilment, which is hard to do with D&L.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 18:24:49


Post by: lord_blackfang


I F5'd on launch and ended up being #11, so the hype is pretty real.

And it funded in 15 minutes. First SG unlocked in 19 minutes.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 18:27:45


Post by: DaveC


That build your pledge and pick your add ons options is new. I just skipped it and put in a lump sum which I'll figure out later.

SG 2 unlocked

There are 5 Elementals planned.

Spoiler:






Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 18:37:12


Post by: Orlanth


I love D&L dragons and when my pledge rewards arrived I put in a second late order same day. So I pay D&L2 price for dragons plus D&L2 stretchgoals, which are super awesome and I cannot get enough of.
Glad I did because the stretchgoals already look awesome and I would be salty if I forked out for more dragons and missed out on these stretchgoals.

Pirates, furniture, elementals, orcs and elves. It looks great already and we are just beginning.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 18:55:13


Post by: lord_blackfang


50 minutes and all the initial stretch goals are down...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 19:00:59


Post by: DaveC


 lord_blackfang wrote:
50 minutes and all the initial stretch goals are down...


and here's more



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 19:24:41


Post by: lord_blackfang


Extra Stretch Goals are 25€ this time and they're still gonna be a steal, aren't they


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/04 19:57:03


Post by: DaveC


Dana Howl just uploaded her D&L cursed city project. And SG 6 unlocked.




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 06:08:26


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


My wife and I were thinking that it feels like the buildings idea is being downplayed whilst townsfolk and sewers have become the focus.

Where are the examples of cool buildings? The current sketches are very lackluster.

Only one roof style? No thatched roofs and tiled roofs?

We can not believe that the KS does not show a complete tavern. Or completed versions of the various buildings shown in the original concept art. That is a serious missed opportunity.

One of the things we were hoping for from this KS was a tavern a lot of playable space, like a Dwarven Forge build, but at a lower price point.

There is still value in the KS and we are backing it but it is not so far delivering what we hoped for with buildings. It is exceeding our expectations with the townsfolk though. And D&L stretch goal accessories are always awesome.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 08:17:22


Post by: DaveC


A point of clarification added this morning the Giant and Ghost Dragon are max 1 per backer if/When unlocked not 1 per pledge level bought so they do not stack with multiple village pledges. Also they are not included in the €25 stretch goal pack you must get at least 1 pledge level that qualifies for SG to get them. All other SG are per pledge so they stack.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 12:01:01


Post by: lord_blackfang


It's good that they spell these things out now.

From memory Oregano the 1M D&L2 dragon was 1 per pledge but that was a change from before, the Wolverine tank in Rampart 2 was 1 per backer.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 12:27:03


Post by: Orlanth


That is not unfair. However they must include the giant and dragon for those who bought the dragon pledge. Dragons Lair pledgers don't want stretchgoals is poor thinking at the best of times, but ludicrous if it means Dragons Lair backers don't want the extra dragon. What do you think they are pledging for Archon?

Archon can and do feth up though. I ended up with six Wolverine Tanks for my late pledge, for which I am grateful as I decided to mechanise my Guard army, something I was not prepared to do until that point.
I also got several extra boxes of Rampart buildings, I emailed Archon as to whether they need be returned, they were gracious enough to let me keep them, and I kept some, but gave away the rest, including many stretch goal boxes in my local games club (what comes around, goes around). I kept all the tanks though!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 12:41:57


Post by: lord_blackfang


Sign me up for that sort of mistake!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 13:11:15


Post by: DaveC


I agree the Dragons Lair pledge should get the Ghost Dragon if reached - it costs more a village pledge after all. The Dragons Lair pledge seems to be causing the most queries regarding SG.

They did state that giving multiple dragons cost more than expected last time so they are restricted now. I’d like multiple Giants as a Sons of Behemoth collector but if it’s 1 pose maybe not. 1 Ghost Dragon will do me. I have 2 Origon dragons I’d have been happy with 1 no idea what I’ll do with the 2nd but at least it has alt builds (with/without wings).

If you want multiple of the Giant and Ghost Dragon you could do multiple pledges under different backer accounts as shipping is charged per pledge picked it would cost the same anyway it’s just hassle to have more than 1 backer account on the go.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 13:40:45


Post by: lord_blackfang


I might go that route, if I remember the password on my alt account I used once 8 years ago and if it turns out they roped me into getting 2x Village when I keep saying I don't even need any walls, but hear me out:

1) I want Townsfolk and probably multiples of Stretch Goals
2) It's just 30€ for +5 rooms if I take a Village pledge over 1x SG 1x Townsfolk
3) I kinda think I'd need a second Core Set to get enough walls to be useful
4) It's just 25€ for +4 rooms taking a second Village pledge over an extra Core Set and extra Stretch Goals

That's how they get you.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 14:09:50


Post by: MrPieChee


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
My wife and I were thinking that it feels like the buildings idea is being downplayed whilst townsfolk and sewers have become the focus.

Where are the examples of cool buildings? The current sketches are very lackluster.

Only one roof style? No thatched roofs and tiled roofs?

We can not believe that the KS does not show a complete tavern. Or completed versions of the various buildings shown in the original concept art. That is a serious missed opportunity.

One of the things we were hoping for from this KS was a tavern a lot of playable space, like a Dwarven Forge build, but at a lower price point.

There is still value in the KS and we are backing it but it is not so far delivering what we hoped for with buildings. It is exceeding our expectations with the townsfolk though. And D&L stretch goal accessories are always awesome.


This all the way. It seems they've given up on buildings and are hanging onto their dungeon set up. It's still good, but not quite what I was expecting and not growing the range as much as they could.

My D&L2 pledge has been delayed so I don't know how good or bad this stuff is - I don't want to pledge for more until my previous pledge turns up. Which could mean I late pledge at best :(

Rampart 1 was good, but not out of the park great. The floors are complete trash, and it's a massive pain getting some parts off the sprue and cleaning up - there are way too many sprue joins for some of the walls and columns. I'm hoping they improved this with dungeon and lasers...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 14:36:44


Post by: lord_blackfang


420k smashed

It feels like NPCs are the big draw in Woodhaven and the tiles are just a backdrop.

There is also some evidence of... shady... marketing going on, like I remember the past few weeks there was a lot of talk about how the sewers are the current big challenge and they're still working on them and then boom, campaign starts and all of a sudden there's influencer videos unboxing fully tooled Sewers with retail boxes and everything.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:07:33


Post by: DaveC


Wasn’t it the roofs that was the technical challenge and was taking a lot of work to figure out? The sewers have been the same design all along but the amount of the contents kept changing and then they decided to make it a core set. Influencers have had them for a week or 2 at this stage.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:12:29


Post by: lord_blackfang


Pretty sure the pure water tiles with no sidewalk were just touted as a last minute addition which is funny if they're on a sprue with everything else.

Anyone going for multiple accounts to double up on giants and dragons should do so today to also get doubles of early bird Nubble.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:21:40


Post by: DaveC


The full water tile was a later 3rd sprue. It’s not on the previewed sprue 1 or 2 and influencers got a room size kit with just those 2 sprues. You can see sprue 1 & 2 here without the full water tile.






Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:24:05


Post by: Orlanth


 DaveC wrote:
I agree the Dragons Lair pledge should get the Ghost Dragon if reached - it costs more a village pledge after all. The Dragons Lair pledge seems to be causing the most queries regarding SG.

They did state that giving multiple dragons cost more than expected last time so they are restricted now. I’d like multiple Giants as a Sons of Behemoth collector but if it’s 1 pose maybe not. 1 Ghost Dragon will do me. I have 2 Origon dragons I’d have been happy with 1 no idea what I’ll do with the 2nd but at least it has alt builds (with/without wings).


I have sympathy for Archon there. The Dragon's Lair pledge was a bargain, the dragons are excellent and I got extra dragons from having two dungeon pledges (at 'village equivalent' level). I bought an extra Dragons Lair pledge on receipt and intend to give away several dragons. It like doing things like that. I can only afford to be generous because I generously received a good deal from Archon.
Yes I will have five chinese dragons, which is several chinese dragon too many. I will keep three for the traditional colours of green red and white, and give away two. But it would have made zero difference it they were one per backer and I received only one.

 DaveC wrote:

If you want multiple of the Giant and Ghost Dragon you could do multiple pledges under different backer accounts as shipping is charged per pledge picked it would cost the same anyway it’s just hassle to have more than 1 backer account on the go.


Late backers also count as separate backers. I got an extra Wolverine by backing twice, and four more due to the error. This wasn't an exploit, I just like Rampart so much when I got it I made a second order. I did the same for D&L 1 and 2.

D&L2 has finally closed its pledge manager, it was open last week. My second order is through and paid, but I get notifications now that I cannot add any more orders except to spend existing pledge credit. It is odd that I was able to put in a separate pledge for D&L2 three days before D&L3 launched, but isn't in a way as its still an order and clean money for Archon.
It is no exploit, but as I stated earlier buying dragons late last week meant three boxes of D&L2 stretchgoals, buying dragons now means no stretchgoals for the same price. I am so glad I bit the bullet while I could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
420k smashed

It feels like NPCs are the big draw in Woodhaven and the tiles are just a backdrop.

There is also some evidence of... shady... marketing going on, like I remember the past few weeks there was a lot of talk about how the sewers are the current big challenge and they're still working on them and then boom, campaign starts and all of a sudden there's influencer videos unboxing fully tooled Sewers with retail boxes and everything.


The sewers have changed.

 DaveC wrote:
Wasn’t it the roofs that was the technical challenge and was taking a lot of work to figure out? The sewers have been the same design all along but the amount of the contents kept changing and then they decided to make it a core set. Influencers have had them for a week or 2 at this stage.


Yes they are and its easy to see why. They have single square pyramid hip roof tiles, in the promos, the actual roofs are strictly two tiles wide and any length with gables. Thus one can currently make a tiled roof building if it is a 1x1 or a 2xX with possibility to 90 degree wings each 2xX. That is not very modular at all. They have a lot of work to do to make the roofs properly modular.

I am all over this for the sewers and stretchgoals. Urban NPC's yes please, furniture and urban street furniture, yes please. I will get my buildings elsewhere.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:38:42


Post by: lord_blackfang


I take back what I said about the sewers then!

Looks like I'm on 2x Village on two accounts. I don't mind paying both up front, it helps with SG.

Will probably skip the sewers... looks great but the Core Set has significantly more panels. To be precise, rooms have 24, Sewers 72 and Core Set 104 tiles worth of panels (converted to single size, counting both floors and walls). So no wonder you can't trade rooms up for more Sewers/Core. Now begins the agonozing over what to choose for my 6-7 rooms. Go for consistency, go for variety, or go for themes that will mesh with the free tiles I got in previous SG?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:56:57


Post by: DaveC


No worries there’s been that many changes it’s difficult to remember, I can’t remember my other backer account details but I think I’ll stick with just the main one unless there are lots of per backer SG.

SG gaps down to €20k I thought it would go straight from €460k to €500k ( which will hopefully be something a bit extra) but ghosts added at €480k


[Thumb - 28D5B37A-7F36-4CE3-8C99-56066609A5E4.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 15:59:16


Post by: The_Real_Chris


So a question - if I back the townsfolk do i not get or do I get the stretch goal townsfolk?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 16:01:39


Post by: lord_blackfang


The_Real_Chris wrote:
So a question - if I back the townsfolk do i not get or do I get the stretch goal townsfolk?


No, all unlocks go into the Stretch Goal pack. The Townsfolk pack is fixed.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 16:03:31


Post by: DaveC


The_Real_Chris wrote:
So a question - if I back the townsfolk do i not get or do I get the stretch goal townsfolk?


Townsfolk does not get SG you need to be at Village or above to get SG ( not counting Dragons Lair). You can buy a stretch goal set for €25 to get the stretch goal townsfolk so all in it would be €54 plus shipping for 1xTownsfolk starter and 1x SG set which will still work out at less than 50 cent a mini plus you get all the other SG bits.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 16:46:58


Post by: Orlanth


The_Real_Chris wrote:
So a question - if I back the townsfolk do i not get or do I get the stretch goal townsfolk?


Buy a village pledge, but you need not buy any village for your village. You could just get a fantasy dungeon instead. It is worthwhile and if you don't want it, there will be people in your gaming community who will.

The buildings are frankly of dubious quality while there are a lot of options for buildings that are not dubious, however for classic dungeons (and factories and spaceship interiors) D&L is one of the best products out there.
Yes, I can say that, I have several of the above, and access to more, STLs, plastic kits, laser cut kits, card kits etc. I will hand on heart say that I have never found a dungeon product better than this one, have dropped about five hundred pounds to back up my words and am still back for more.

The point is, while you are paying 85 Euro for the village pledge, you are actually buying the stretchgoals and the tiles are just an extra. Its the bigger half of the product. Even if I didn't want the new sewers, (and I do!) it will be worth me buying two villages just for the miniatures and add ons. As it happens there is enough good stuff for several village pledges and we are less than 24 hours in. Move over GW, Archon is my plastic crack supplier of choice at the moment.

The Real Chris, buy a village pledge for the low low price of 85 Euro , get your townsfolk and stretchgoals and trade off the dungeon you get as 'extra', if you aren't immediately hooked on it once you get it.

No, I dont work for Archon, they just supply me with the happy stuff.




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 16:51:11


Post by: lord_blackfang


Ha ha I think you've just cemented my double Village, you should get a kickback from Archon


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 16:56:45


Post by: The_Real_Chris


Yeah I already switched when informed no stretch goals as the 'folk plus stretch goals meant I may as well get a sewer kit as that can be used for any setting that has sewage management...

I only want the villagers for a blood bowl stadia!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 17:05:08


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I'm debating if I want all those water tiles in the sewer set for use in underwater combat games (building grottos and caves), or just stick to the various rooms to build a dungeon.
I at least have a pretty hefty supply of Battlesystems for buildings and 3D printer access when that doesn't satisfy demand.

Thing that bums me out the most is Archon contacted me a few times about sending me stuff... and that was the end of it.
Almost as much as Nubbles or whatever winning over the gallant daemon with giant sword. He better show up in the add ons. I miss mine- guy offered me a very lucrative trade in return for my painted one (something like 30+ brand new Avatars of War kits).

That Village deal is such a stupidly good deal too. Hard to not want to throw even more money at it.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 17:37:23


Post by: KipCujo


I'm having some trouble visualizing/understanding the use of the Roof Sets here. Do they correspond in any certain ratios? Like can one Room Set, in proper configuration, be completely enclosed by one Roof Set?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 18:12:00


Post by: Dolnikan


This might just be a silly question, but does anyone know if, if you go for the village pledge, you can use some of your room slots for duplicates? I'm strongly interested in multiple roof sets and don't really have a need for dungeon tiles.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 18:20:28


Post by: lord_blackfang


 Dolnikan wrote:
This might just be a silly question, but does anyone know if, if you go for the village pledge, you can use some of your room slots for duplicates? I'm strongly interested in multiple roof sets and don't really have a need for dungeon tiles.


Yes, the only thing you can't do is merge Room slots into more Core Sets/Sewers


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 18:24:51


Post by: Dolnikan


 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Dolnikan wrote:
This might just be a silly question, but does anyone know if, if you go for the village pledge, you can use some of your room slots for duplicates? I'm strongly interested in multiple roof sets and don't really have a need for dungeon tiles.


Yes, the only thing you can't do is merge Room slots into more Core Sets/Sewers


Thank you!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 18:39:31


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


How important is it to you all to have doors to suit the new building styles?

It is vital to me and my wife and yet it seems that according to Derek of Archon Studio, there Are Norplant currently for doors to fit the new building style doorways but that anything is possible with enough demand.

Archon has been responsive to customer input in the past. If doors are important to us, we need to make ourselves heard.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 18:47:47


Post by: DaveC


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Almost as much as Nubbles or whatever winning over the gallant daemon with giant sword. He better show up in the add ons. I miss mine- guy offered me a very lucrative trade in return for my painted one (something like 30+ brand new Avatars of War kits).


Well Temon is the €500k SG so now you can get multiple


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 18:50:49


Post by: lord_blackfang


Seems to me only Tudor and Wooden don't work fine with existing doors

And I'm guessing Archon is still hurting from the door debacle


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DaveC wrote:
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Almost as much as Nubbles or whatever winning over the gallant daemon with giant sword. He better show up in the add ons. I miss mine- guy offered me a very lucrative trade in return for my painted one (something like 30+ brand new Avatars of War kits).


Well Temon is the €500k SG so now you can get multiple


The hilarious bit it that Nubble won the popularity poll but unless you pledge in the first 2 days you'll have to pay for him but everyone gets Temon for free for sure.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 20:37:40


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ha ha I think you've just cemented my double Village, you should get a kickback from Archon


I did, now my IG has plenty of not-Chimerae. Though I have yet to source IFV turrets for them.

I could only double village if I reactivated my other Kickstarter account, the pledge manager doesnt have options otherwise. Though I will certainly be multiple villages later.
Considered it though, for double Nubble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
KipCujo wrote:
I'm having some trouble visualizing/understanding the use of the Roof Sets here. Do they correspond in any certain ratios? Like can one Room Set, in proper configuration, be completely enclosed by one Roof Set?


One roof set should cover about two building sets. You can fit even more under by stacking extra levels.
However roof sets are very much restricted in shape to buildings two tiles wide only, of any length.

Truth be told, the buildings are NOT the strength of this Kickstarter, though that might change if they add to the roof set.

Do you have access to a 3d printer. If so this is where you need to go:

https://www.townsmith.de/shop#versions

I got this on a Kickstarter, it is a tile system that actually works. Load up your design and print. There are many other STL options, but the above one can function as a one size fits all easily.

If you want to buy buildings instead there are many options and you have a basic choice of expensive resin kits or cheap and nasty laser cut MDF or cardboard.

Now there is one exception to both, and it goes back to Archon again. Their Rampart system is very good. It is similar in scope to the GW cities of death builds with a cathedral/not-40K city set, an art deco factory/not-40K Mechanicus set and an Aztec set.

https://archon-studio.com/shop/20-rampart

Archon already know how to make decent buildings, but are offering us gak ones here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Seems to me only Tudor and Wooden don't work fine with existing doors

And I'm guessing Archon is still hurting from the door debacle


The doors strictly only work for the sets they are (not) provided for. All the doorways are doorless except for the stretchgoal broken doors in D&L2 and the closed door set.
The open doors have no door frames and unless you buy sets evenly you will either have extea doorways or extra doors or more likely a mixture of both.
Truth be told, its a mess.

It is possible to convert similar doorways notably the Torture chamber doors and the Core dungeon doors to each other. However there is nothing remotely close to the Tudor and Wooden doors set.

Now I do expect this will be fixed later in the Kickstarter, and if Archon have learned their lesson their will provide each of the new building sprues with a door on the sprue.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 21:12:18


Post by: lord_blackfang


I meant visually, if you buy frames and doors, some should look okay with any of the rooms except Wooden and Tudor.

Yeah, I bet in hindsight Archon wish they did sprue layouts differently but I don't see it changing now, adding a door means removing a wall or floor panel to make room.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/05 21:27:47


Post by: Orlanth


With existing sprues there is no fix. But for new sprues a small amount of reformating and removing the extra clips on the room frame should give just enough space for a door and two hinge brackets.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/06 14:08:35


Post by: KipCujo




One roof set should cover about two building sets. You can fit even more under by stacking extra levels.
However roof sets are very much restricted in shape to buildings two tiles wide only, of any length.

Truth be told, the buildings are NOT the strength of this Kickstarter, though that might change if they add to the roof set.

Do you have access to a 3d printer. If so this is where you need to go:

https://www.townsmith.de/shop#versions

I got this on a Kickstarter, it is a tile system that actually works. Load up your design and print. There are many other STL options, but the above one can function as a one size fits all easily.

If you want to buy buildings instead there are many options and you have a basic choice of expensive resin kits or cheap and nasty laser cut MDF or cardboard.

Now there is one exception to both, and it goes back to Archon again. Their Rampart system is very good. It is similar in scope to the GW cities of death builds with a cathedral/not-40K city set, an art deco factory/not-40K Mechanicus set and an Aztec set.

https://archon-studio.com/shop/20-rampart

Archon already know how to make decent buildings, but are offering us gak ones here.


Thanks for the feedback here, this is super helpful. I don't have 3D printing access unfortunately - those buildings look great but aren't in the cards for me presently.

I was really excited initially for the D&L buildings because I loved the idea of modularity, even if the buildings weren't overly pretty or complex. This is my choice for solitaire and co-op skirmish games, so modular dungeons/sewers/towns appeals perfectly for being able to reuse the same physical assets but create different layouts. I can't help but feel like the buildings would have been better packaged with roofs, though. Can't really see myself getting tons of mileage out of a roofless town, and it hurts to sacrifice room square footage to choose roofs in the pledge. Kind of feeling that the buildings would have been better packaged with roofs as a core set choice maybe.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/06 15:03:40


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I was thinking along the same lines.

The "buildings" should have been a core choice, showing off and including enough bits to make a small selection of houses or whatnot, maybe a large tavern or something using everything included. With roofs included.

As it stands I actually forgot about the buildings completely until I rescrolled through the page. The lure of plastics models completely beguiled me.

I think they shrunk down Temon, the 1/2mil stretch goal.

Here's a thumbnail along with a link to a much larger pic from when I was building the original resin version.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/798252-Archon%2C%20Prodos%2C%20Space%20Crusade.html


He stood eye to eye with Skull Taker back then and was on almost just as large of base. Not that I mind getting a smaller one included mind you, but the original is pretty darn big. Nubbles was too. He doesn't look like he's only around 3 inches tall in that photo. I'm not at home to measure Skull Taker either.

Looks like he's lost is dramatic billowing cape too. Ah well. New stretch goals are up too!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/06 15:14:44


Post by: DaveC


Can’t disagree with that it’s still very much a dungeons set in design that happens to have elements to make buildings and there are compromises to make it modular. Putting several different rooms together to make a building isn’t easy I have a spreadsheet to figure out parts needed and convert that to rooms required.

Speaking of building elements I was hoping for chimneys and they are coming up along with another elemental. I wouldnt mind a dormer window to further detail the roofs but with the pitch only being 22.5 degrees it might not work.


[Thumb - 978BBF27-8E0F-49B5-A0CB-A4BA5876B854.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/06 15:41:55


Post by: Orlanth


KipCujo wrote:

Thanks for the feedback here, this is super helpful. I don't have 3D printing access unfortunately - those buildings look great but aren't in the cards for me presently.


Your kind appreciation encourages me to support you.



KipCujo wrote:

I was really excited initially for the D&L buildings because I loved the idea of modularity, even if the buildings weren't overly pretty or complex. This is my choice for solitaire and co-op skirmish games, so modular dungeons/sewers/towns appeals perfectly for being able to reuse the same physical assets but create different layouts. I can't help but feel like the buildings would have been better packaged with roofs, though. Can't really see myself getting tons of mileage out of a roofless town, and it hurts to sacrifice room square footage to choose roofs in the pledge. Kind of feeling that the buildings would have been better packaged with roofs as a core set choice maybe.


I answered your question directly. A room set has nine tiles and enough walls to go around.
A roof set has enough straight roof sections for two 4x2 buildings, plus four extra roofs that can be used for T and L shaped buildings which cover more space. So ignoring the odd tile left over half a roof section can cover almost an entire room set for a single storey building.
So two rooms per one roof set.


However much of the draw here if for multi level structures. If you want an average of two storeys per building at 4x2 or rough equivalent size then one roof set can cover four room sets, and progressively more if you want taller buildings.
You don't need many roof sets to make good with several room sets. and you can always choose flat roofs for some buildings and find ways to use the odd 1x1 roofs and side gable roofs for lower levels..

If you want to heavily invest one roof could do for two a town pledge if you include a flat roof castle and a couple of houses all reasonably tall. The illusion is not not having enough roof spaces but recognising how many room sets it takes to make a decent three storey manor house. And the town pledge does not make a town, nowhere near. It wont even make a decent street.




Take this beautiful Noble townhouse from Tabletop World, it costs 112 Euro to buy unpainted resin and is pure quality. Tabletop World have a reputation of being at the top tier of wargaming buildings. Gorgeous stuff, masterful terrain..

To replace that building (albeit crudely) with Woodhaven you would need:
One Woodhaven castle room set either type for the lower floor
Two Woodhaven tudor manor set for the upper two floors
One Woodhaven roof set.

That is four sets, more than a village provides - for one building.
Now a village pledge is 85 Euro, is reconfigurable and comes with an increasing array of nice extras. But lets be clear here, its the nice extras that are the draw, or the dungeons. and while Tabletop World is 40% more by volume we are talking top end quality.



On the other end this building above is a plastic townhouse from Tabletop Workshop. Sadly TTW is out of business but you can still find these kits about, its is about half the size of the Noble Townhouse but cost £15-20. Now that building is 25mm so you need to replace the door, but otherwise it is fine for a medieval house at 28mm. I know because I have fifteen buildings from that range and I am not parting with them and I recommend them for generic instant towns.




I would like to give you a better example of a budget building, but that is difficult might now without going into cardstock or laser cut. But in all honesty I don't think Woodhaven is worth it. archon dungeons are fine, sewers are fine, dragons are good quality and the stretchgoals are awesome, except the Druid Was Right 'waste of a plastic mold' box. But you can do better for buildings, I really think so.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 01:02:17


Post by: ced1106


> Can't really see myself getting tons of mileage out of a roofless town

Probably an RPG thing. With RPG's you wanted to be able to move your figure inside a house or tavern, and so didn't play with roofs (or second stories).

Although this doesn't explain why there aren't doors in these rooms.

I wonder how far Archon will go with D&L D&L has become quite complicated already, and D&L3 will show if Archon can make inexpensive yet high quality miniatures, which obviously don't have the modularity design issues that the D&L terrain has. Their furniture and terrain bits are great, too, and there's less competition in that area (Mantic's terrain crate is about all I can think of). Whoever came up with the idea of those little holes in the walls is a genius!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 02:07:36


Post by: Orlanth


 ced1106 wrote:
> Can't really see myself getting tons of mileage out of a roofless town

Probably an RPG thing. With RPG's you wanted to be able to move your figure inside a house or tavern, and so didn't play with roofs (or second stories).


Thinking about it now that seems ok. But trust me on this if you want a town with interiors you need exteriors.
You get a solid exception if you just want vignettes, individual spaces laid out for the players with off table scene changes.
This was sorted long ago.


GW made Dungeon Rooms thirty years back, non linked locational spaces.
Rackham, Paizo and others did similar products, and some instead focus on the furniture not the space.



Mantic, and now Archon are making similar products. Dont produce a cardstock throne room, provide a plastic throne and use these as tools to set a scene.

However when moving on to landcapes to get the pizzazz you need interior and exterior. For dungeons you only need to showcase one level at a time, preferably on a black cloth background. No exteriors required because there are no exteriors, just darkness. For a townscape you should have a play mat of some sorts and roofed buildings with playable interiors.
You can 'Skyrimize' your towns and make functional settlements, even cities, with only 10-20 buildings; or you can just depict a single street at a time.

I do recommend roofs for best immersion. If you are not doing full immersion why are you bothering with townscapes?

 ced1106 wrote:

Although this doesn't explain why there aren't doors in these rooms.


Archon fethed up, but they are not perpetual incompetents. I honestly do expect to see doors for Woodhaven building sets at some point. They haven't made the sprues yet, if they are smart they will fix them then.

 ced1106 wrote:

I wonder how far Archon will go with D&L D&L has become quite complicated already, and D&L3 will show if Archon can make inexpensive yet high quality miniatures,...


We can answer that one right now.


Spoiler:

The 'Druid Was Right' has mutipart and quite complex animal miniatures on two sprues. For the record it was a complete brainfart. They could have given us a dozen generic adventurers: fighter, thief, cleric, mage, elf, dwarf etc but instead we got a lot of half baked familiars, a lot of them 'cute' sculpts but very few useable.
Archon love to produce tat to waste resources, but they were a free add on, so <shrug>.
What this set does do is showcase that archon are 100% capable to produce high quality miniatures.
I have big problems with the composition of this kit, it was a screaming waste of an opportunity. But I have zero complaints on quality.
Archon clearly has what it takes to make high quality plastic miniatures, I have no fears about quality of their Townsfolk.

 ced1106 wrote:

.... which obviously don't have the modularity design issues that the D&L terrain has. Their furniture and terrain bits are great, too, and there's less competition in that area (Mantic's terrain crate is about all I can think of). Whoever came up with the idea of those little holes in the walls is a genius!


There is waste in the composition of the add ons also. Genericity is key and less is more. We get one old tree stump, but it has an embedded skeleton. You have to convert all but the first to use them as generic stuff. The vending machine mimic in the above picture serves far better as just a vending machine, which is an awesome piece of versatile scatter terrain that can be used in a lot of narrative play for RPGs due to its bulk, relative portability, and ability to realistically stop some small arms fire.

Archon stretchgoals are better quality than terrain crate, but both offer a large stable of props for gaming. Options are widening and iconic things that have not been available inn miniatures for forty years, like throne rooms, barracks, wizards studys and torture chambers have now got plentiful fittings. Things are looking up for those who prefer 3d narrative play.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 04:18:00


Post by: Azazelx


 Orlanth wrote:
That is not unfair. However they must include the giant and dragon for those who bought the dragon pledge. Dragons Lair pledgers don't want stretchgoals is poor thinking at the best of times, but ludicrous if it means Dragons Lair backers don't want the extra dragon. What do you think they are pledging for Archon?


Yeah, I entirely agree. I backed for the dragons last time as the only things I'm interested from in these camnpaigns are scatter terrain (ie stretch goals) and models. I don't care in the slightest about plastic modular dungeon/room tiles as I'm much more a wargamer than RPGer (and I've got a million care tiles for that sort of thing anyway!)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 07:19:59


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Orlanth, you make some excellent points and the photos you posted nicely illustrate those points.

At this stage I think Archon has missed an opportunity with the buildings. At least they are now considering closed doors for the new themes but they still have not committed to it.

The more Mrs. GG and I play with the D&L 2 pieces the more we are finding the connectors fiddly. We do think we can make some buildings once we get some D&L 3 roofs but we will likely have to glue them together, removing the modularity.

For dungeons we are going to stick with Dwarven Forge.

I threw together a little chapel with cathedral pieces and the preview sprue 2x2 roof. It will look neat with some of the post hole accessories… but I will need to create a terrain base for it.

Here is a photo of it next to a Hagglethorn Hollow hut.

[Thumb - BC9EB32C-704E-4D87-8E7C-5FD8497C245A.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 07:47:58


Post by: ced1106


Credit to Gavin on the D&L Fan FB page : https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10159474283049087&set=gm.2664952987144390

Go back and look at the Fantasy and SF Doorway Theme add-on. Not only are they doubling the frames you get, but adding four square roofs.
You probably only want this add-on in conjunction with the Functional Doors (and no doorways) add-on, though.

> Dragons Lair pledgers don't want stretchgoals is poor thinking at the best of times,

Well, there's always going to be that admittedly international backer who says "I don't want it, even if it's free. I have to pay shipping for it."
Since the dragons was a D&L2 thing, mebbe Archon shoulda kept it in the add-ons section. Eh.

> But trust me on this if you want a town with interiors you need exteriors.

Oh, I definitely agree. Miniature skirmish games seem to have become more popular, and they and wargames mean buildings with roofs!
At least the roof set is larger. And earlier set was add-on only, and about half the size.

> The 'Druid Was Right'

My guess is that Archon saw a recent earlier KS, of some plastic miniatures of dressed-up animal companions, and did their usual thing of copying someone else's idea. This was back in 2018.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/russrmc/animal-adventures-tales-of-dungeons-and-doggies

> Genericity is key and less is more.

Absolutely agreed. Even the wall designs of one stone room is different from another. Other dungeon sets (haven't checked DF though) would use the same stone walls in a dungeon, castle, and other stone structure.

> Things are looking up for those who prefer 3d narrative play.

Yeah! Rather than commit to one terrain, miniature, or whatever game line, I throw some money at each, so long as they're reasonably compatible. Of course, if and when someone makes an affordable color miniature resolution 3D printer...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 08:52:21


Post by: lord_blackfang


Orlanth is MVP of this thread for sure


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 11:27:20


Post by: Orlanth


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

The more Mrs. GG and I play with the D&L 2 pieces the more we are finding the connectors fiddly. We do think we can make some buildings once we get some D&L 3 roofs but we will likely have to glue them together, removing the modularity.


Watch out for the doorways, they go first. That has yet to happen to me but I hear it a lot. I am considering filing the nubs of the doorways down to a looser fit. It will be a balance between stiff doorways likely to break vs loose rattly doorways. Not got around to it yet, and can't be arsed frankly; I have awesome dragons to build and paint.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

For dungeons we are going to stick with Dwarven Forge.


I could not afford Dwarven Forge. Warlock looks good but is also pricey. I will stick with D&L. It has value on its side.

Prior to D&L I was experimenting with making my own modular terrain. It never went beyond paper planning stage but I can visualise things and keep the imagery in my head so I was able to 'virtual 3d model it'. It was a matter of where to add genericity and modularity. If you make tiles you can get a wide variety of builds similar to old 70's era squared paper dungeons, but there is a flatness to them. Larger units meant freer builds but restrictions on the modularity.
What I found with paper modelling and draft was that dungeons are fairly simple and can be abstrated down into sections then assembled with individual sections.

How to describe this without pictures.....
The flow chart dungeon.

Ok. Let us take a very simple old school dungeon. You have an entranceway, either a short corridor or room, then an ante-chamber (A), connecting to another corridor and interior room (B) then on to a boss room (C). A-B-C. It matters less than you might think if the connecting corridors are 30' or 100' if the rooms are round or square and if there is a 90 degree turn in one of the corridors or whether the entrances to room B are opposite each other or at right angles. It will make a difference to LOS in some places and you must be careful the sections don't loop on each other and be mindful of play area, but by and large there is little difference between.

So what does make a difference?

The real differences come with junctions.

A
I
B-B
I
C

Here we have a small variation that actually matters. You have two interior rooms, or room sections. When at the first you have a major tactical decision. Which way to go? Which way to the boss and do we need to defend this junction in order to not have our retreat cut off. Up until now the colour shape and composition of the dungeon could have been anything, from columned halls to dripping caverns filed with stalactites, to an Egyptian tomb setting or the basement of a castle. The rooms could be any shape or colour, trap filled or empty, until this point there has been little consequence of the basic dungeon shape.

We could go further:

A
I
B-B
I...I
C-B

[Ignore dotted line]Now we have the second variant, and yes there are only two, the loop. Now you have two routes to the same place. The Boss room may be in the loop or beyond it. A loop provides mobility, each additional loop provides more mobility. Not only do you have a choice of tactical direction remaining after you know where you want to end up, but defenders have tactical choices of mobility also. Two simple loops adds a lot of tactical complexity in a relatively simple design.

Now you can have linear sections, multiple junctions and multiple loops in one dungeon, and each or any B node or even the boss area C might contain its own mini-junctioned or loop tactical space., but in reality those are the only distinctions you actually have. Linear, junction and loop. Whether large or small whether each section is one room or corridor or many, or neither, just a cave or continuous wide halls. Everything else is just furniture. So think of it like a flow chart. Everything is automatic until you reach a decision box or run out of hit points getting there. A flow chart might have myriad functionalities and styles but the building blocks to get there are elementary.

So why do we need tiled dungeons?
I dont think we do, we can function quite well with pre built rooms and pre built corridors, so long as they link together properly.
Games such as Warhammer Quest are built on this basic principal, and while that game was crude to the extreme it served its purpose well.

So I am keeping some tiles to make sure everything links together but gluing down permanent chambers and corridors with set up for critical decisions by the party.
By gluing corridors and rooms you have fewer connector points to deal with, so set up is faster and you can more easily customise your larger tile areas. add a torch and then paint dynamic lighting. Glue in the torture equipment for a one piece set up for torture/rescue point/ basic background on the way to the boss.

I have decided to prebuild 80% of my D&L stuff, enough for all the customisation I actually need, and if the same tortuyre chamber is used over and over, does it matter? If you make the torture chamber of of the same tile set is that not still copy-pasta?

I would not dare glue Dwarven forge it is too expensive to be used that way. But D&L, why not. The only real downside I envisage is that you can pack a lot of tiles into a shoebox, but fewer complete corridors and rooms.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Here is a photo of it next to a Hagglethorn Hollow hut.




I haven't built my Woodhaven preview stretchgoal bonuses, but looking at that the connectors are ugly.
Don't get me wrong those are nice bitz for a build, but a build that is glued and made mostly of something else.

D&L dungeons are mostly invisibly connected, you are limited to square grid but the effect is fairly seamless, you will have some connector overhang by linking dungeon levels, but that is minimum, but these pokey little buildings limited to two tiles wide with their extra chunky rims have the aesthetics of toy blox but little of the versatility.

I will have enough rooms 'spare' to go with my sewers that Intend to get some woodhaven room sets. I want some wooden floors and alternative stone floors in my dungeon tile mix, and will mix in some castle wall and doorways into the dungeon and might mod them to blend in better with core set like I do with the Warlock room set.


 ced1106 wrote:

My guess is that Archon saw a recent earlier KS, of some plastic miniatures of dressed-up animal companions, and did their usual thing of copying someone else's idea. This was back in 2018.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/russrmc/animal-adventures-tales-of-dungeons-and-doggies


Ahh so that is why. What a waste. Trouble is functional familiars would be useful they could have added that to a set of useful miniatures, like adventurers or generic dungeon monsters appropriately.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 12:28:12


Post by: DaveC


They’ve added a €590k stretch goal for 6 Gnolls (3 designs) (currently at €580k)


[Thumb - 08F811F4-5960-4363-A6DA-147BB46B6DCC.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 12:36:06


Post by: lord_blackfang


The two copies of each makes me worry that they're doing some poor layout planning again. As there are no other x2 NPCs in the Stretch Goals yet, these might share a sprue with some x2 terrain bits and mixing figures and terrain will surely cause issues down the line. Let's hope not and there are other x2 figures coming up to share a sprue with these guys.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 12:38:08


Post by: Orlanth


 DaveC wrote:
They’ve added a €590k stretch goal for 6 Gnolls (3 designs) (currently at €580k)



Good, that is actually useful. By the time you have two stretchgoal boxes and covert some for variety you have a good selection for a monster line up. 12-18 Gnolls is more than enough for a lot of adventure.

Personally I dont need them, I have masses of 'gnolls', aka prepainted plastic Confrontation wolfen. But because I had many I could get up enough gnoll focused adventures to satisfy even a Minsc. Fun times. Sometimes you more than just the odd monster, you need a workable warband or tribe.

Two thumbs up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
The two copies of each makes me worry that they're doing some poor layout planning again. As there are no other x2 NPCs in the Stretch Goals yet, these might share a sprue with some x2 terrain bits and mixing figures and terrain will surely cause issues down the line. Let's hope not and there are other x2 figures coming up to share a sprue with these guys.


Itys a sign of something good.
Archon appear to be learning. Some stretchgoal sprues are to be duplicated it makes sense to add the most generic items to that sprue. Now I would add tables and chairs rather than gnolls, but will take gnolls if offered.
In D&L2 you got two beds, useful items because they came on a sprue with duplicate stuff, however the duplicate sprue could have had other things on it that needed spamming. At least we didn't just get one bed.

Maybe Archon will give us a gnoll leader mini on another sprue totaling seven, then if they have sense put a different generic gnoll on the doubled sprue and promote the shaman to an individual sculpt.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 13:05:04


Post by: lord_blackfang


I'm just saying I hope they don't repeat some serious layout snafus from last time, like the holograms and stone bridges sharing a sprue, that make creating coherent retail kits in the future a total mess.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 13:09:24


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I backed D&L1 specifically for the familiars/animal companions/mimic vending machines,

(and Animal Adventures which i'm sure did inspire them as you suggest got solid backer numbers so even if you don't like them there are plenty that do)

my disappointment with them was that they didn't do the scale right so some stuff was too small for what it was meant to be so consigning them to familiar only status


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 13:33:29


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm just saying I hope they don't repeat some serious layout snafus from last time, like the holograms and stone bridges sharing a sprue, that make creating coherent retail kits in the future a total mess.


You can buy fantasy only D&L2 stretchgoals, but with so many hybrid sprues I cant tell what that means. With five full stretchgoals from last project I havent asked, but if you are thinking about buying the D&L2 strtchgoal add on I would query Archon to find what you get.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I backed D&L1 specifically for the familiars/animal companions/mimic vending machines,


Each to their own, no offence intended. For the record they are gak, but there will be people who think they are gold. Your opinion is no less valid.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

my disappointment with them was that they didn't do the scale right so some stuff was too small for what it was meant to be so consigning them to familiar only status


In fairness they are familiars.

Lets break it down from a grognards point of view.

Vending machine mimic - Don't add the tongue. Its a vending machine. Add to any public room in a cyberpunk/shadowrun/Star Wars or moderns game. Use cyberstrength/force powers/magic to manipulate it as a bullet sponge,, roadblock or missile. A+++
Chest mimic - Classic mimic. Why add the fething ring to its tongue though. Had to convert mine to something with more manace. B+ potentially high A.
Safe mimic - Safe looks too modern for a mimic, and not tech enough for Shadowrun. Too hard to convert into a real safe. D
Fantasy monkey - This is straight out of Journey to the West. Handle with care, that creature is actually a demi-god, and irrepressable. up to A if you want that content.
Fantasy bear - Why not armour up your bear animal companion. One of the few familiars that is worth while right out of the box. A
Fantasy eagle - Also reasonable to apply armour to. But hard to make servicable. Useful for Frostgrave as there is a hireling that has a bird pet ranged attack. B/A if you play Frostgrave.
Fantasy weasel - PIty about the hood, but good that he has stolen keys. That is what weasel familiars are for. Marc Singer would apparove. B
Goblin - Why not add him to the rest. C
Almost everything else - Mostly E/F Though the contraband owl is hard not to like, and you can make an Eldar Gyrinx with a little work.
Space bear - Has a spacesuit that wont even keep in farts. Z

I had four sets of that crud. I gave away one set to someone who actually liked it. Salvaged the vending machines and about half a dozen other minis and binned the rest. They didn't even make the bitz box.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 14:00:10


Post by: DaveC


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm just saying I hope they don't repeat some serious layout snafus from last time, like the holograms and stone bridges sharing a sprue, that make creating coherent retail kits in the future a total mess.


They can and have clipped individual parts from shared sprues in the past and just put them in zip lock bags so they may do this for retail sets as well. I ordered the D&L 1 column set and got 4 columns that had been clipped from the shared sprue also for Rampart 2 I got 15 Kazumi toppers which share sprues with toppers from the other themes again all 15 were clipped out and bagged.

They do make mistakes and some sprues are badly laid out for retail but they can work around it. Once the sprue is tooled it’s cheap to produce so they can probably afford to waste some parts when splitting up sprues again not ideal for Archon but once the customer gets the right parts that’s all that matters.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 17:04:21


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Again Orlanth you make some good points.

The prebuilt sections with more durability for dungeons is a good idea. Fair trade of modularity for durability and aesthetics.

The Woodhaven buildings will need to be attached to the streets or have bases built by hand for them.

The boxy little shrine I threw together was an experiment to see how the roof trim worked but makes a decent roadside shrine or guard post. It will look better with appropriate post hole decorations. And is cost effective.

Edit: I really wanted to like that space bear but the partial spacesuit ruined it for me. You get a gold star for the Marc Singer reference.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 22:31:21


Post by: MrPieChee


I remember back in rampart 1 making comments about sprue layout. It doesn't seem like they've learnt much!

It seems crazy that they aren't interested in retail sales, but when these Kickstarters do so well, perhaps they don't care?

They've managed to use previous campaigns to by loads of plastic kit (CNC + injection machines). I feel like all of this is just biding time for chronoshards. Back when most of the company was prodos they wanted to get their sci-fi game going, but needed the ability to produce good quality plastic kits. Maybe rampart and D&L are just practice?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/07 22:44:53


Post by: lord_blackfang


As far as I know the plan had been to fund the machinery and then cast minis for other companies. This might have changed when Soda Pop stuck them with a warehouse of cast but never paid miniatures.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/08 01:02:46


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I've been wondering if they've been doing the casting for the newer Para Bellum kits.

The sprue layouts feel similar to me. I can't think of many other eastern European plastic mini manufacturers either at this point.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/08 09:16:07


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yes the Conquest sprues say Made in Poland, and I can't imagine there secretly being a second wargaming injection mold factory there.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/10 15:18:14


Post by: DaveC


New room theme added - Lava Caverns available in a choice of translucent plastic. Nice addition but not a building or building part which should be the focus of the KS.

The classic market stall won the vote it will also be available as an add on once unlocked (60mm x 60mm footprint)

Current total €673k


[Thumb - 041E9434-BD0E-4836-9071-4354E323D0DC.jpeg]
[Thumb - F523ED05-17E2-4FF8-AA6F-C1FC1AD7F1F0.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/10 20:26:04


Post by: lord_blackfang


Personally I'm thankful we're coming back to terrain at all, it feels like this whole modular town thing has just been a backdrop for a crate of random NPCs ala Reaper Bones or Lasting Tales/Fantasy Collection. From the skyrocketing total I guess there's still big money to be made on the concept. But all the unique NPCs also make it unappealing to get multiple Stretch Goal sets which was the big draw for me... bit of a dud there. I really really really hope they split the mins and terrain as Add Ons.

There's also been some talk that any figures marked as "Encounter pack" are multipart, poseable with options. So far I think that's the Gnolls, Kobolds and... Child Adventurers?




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 01:10:28


Post by: Orlanth


 DaveC wrote:
New room theme added - Lava Caverns available in a choice of translucent plastic. Nice addition but not a building or building part which should be the focus of the KS.


Honestly the theme is 'fantasy' rather than 'buildings'. More dungeon zones is a topical addition.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 08:13:52


Post by: Stormonu


While I have some interest in the streets, sewers and roofs, I'm hoping the next one swings strongly back to "Lasers".

It's really hard to find decent sci-fi modular terrain and the first was a real blessing in creating a Nostromo-style ship. Hoping we'll see a "Far, far away Empire" style (i.e., Star Wars) or Bright Future (i.e., Star Trek) style next time around.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 10:12:38


Post by: ced1106


Next KS should be sf

No details afaik


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 11:15:27


Post by: Orlanth


But do understand you will be getting zero moderns or SF content in this campaign. And no fantasy in the next.

I prefer this because while I love Dungeons and Lasers SF items they are all industrial. I would really like to see upper decks/corporate tower sets to add to what we have got. By narrowing the scope the more likely we will get those items.

As the MO for Woodhaven will work far better for modular space frontier buildings and corpo offices than they do fantasy/medieval.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:

There's also been some talk that any figures marked as "Encounter pack" are multipart, poseable with options. So far I think that's the Gnolls, Kobolds and... Child Adventurers?


Yes please! But no child adventurers, drop the tat Archon. Do gnomes instead.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 21:11:29


Post by: Alpharius


I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 21:31:41


Post by: Orlanth


 Alpharius wrote:
I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


It sounds very wrong.

Town grants you 11 rooms, 1 Townsfolk and 1 stretchgoal set for 169 Euro.
2x Village grants you 10 rooms, 2 Townsfolk and 2 stretchgoals for 170 Euro

Dilute all City or Town pledges into multiple villages. To buy the extra room for a Village pledge will cost 17 Euro, to buy an extra stretchgoal costs 25 Euro.

For a double village two roof sets will cover eight room sets to provide four 4x2 tile two storey buildings (or equivalent).
I recommend you also buy one set of Woodhaven set of doors (4 Euro) for the above buildings.

There is a lot else I could recommend you but that is for you to decide. however some tips:

1. More stretchgoals are better, and you would be advised to pick up D&L1 and D&L2 stretchgoals as they will furnish your buildings.
2. Woodhaven will grant you only a handful of buildings unless you make them all small and pokey, Village pledge will NOT make a Village, Town pledge will NOT make a Town.
3. Woodhaven seems to do best if you make an antfarm starting with a dungeon working up to sewers then streets and buildings.

However to do this at any reasonable scale will require an ENORMOUS investment. Remember the maths a 5x5 tile grid is twice (more or less) a 4x4 tile grid which is twice more or less a 3x3 grid. When you add 3d and multiple storeys it can get crazy fast. To make a decent tile set for a good sized playable dungeon you need to drop at least $400 on D&L. Less if you destroy and reuse assets behind you, which is frankly not recommended. To make a decent urban set up with streets and buildings some sewers but no dungeon will cost at least $600 to do a reasonable job and the resulting settlement will not get a 'town' feel with an investment of less than $1000. A 3d printer costs $250 with all the bells and whistles and plenty of ammo, plus another $50 for a decent selection of stl files to print.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 22:37:55


Post by: lord_blackfang


2x Village should cover about a 30x30 inch area solid (assuming Fantasy Core Sets) but once you go to multiple stories and even spend room slots for roofs it might start looking a lot thinner.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 23:12:55


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
2x Village should cover about a 30x30 inch area solid (assuming Fantasy Core Sets) but once you go to multiple stories and even spend room slots for roofs it might start looking a lot thinner.


Less because the ratios of floor to walls is different, and there is no need for multi levelling or roofs for most of the play area., though you have functionality to do this, and dungeon stairs in the stretchgoal boxes. Core sets offer better value for money on a volume basis than rooms and the building sets are based on rooms.

Buildings lose their charm if you don't add multiple storeys which cuts functional volume by half straight away.

I still stick with my estimate 1 Village = 2 buildings, with 1x Town = 2x Village and 1x City = 3x Village, but with less stretchgoals than multiple villages.

That being said I would like to offer alternatives to my backtalk on Woodhaven buildings.
1. Those are decent roof sections, there is a lot of model availability for walls, less for roofs. You could use homemade heavy card walls for your buildings and add Woodhaven roofs to them for a quality upgrade.
2. Woodhaven buildings can serve as dungeon tiles and thus expand the variety. I advise building your dungeons mostly around core sets but with room sets for variation, you don't need a lot of room sets to make the dungeon tiles more interesting, and beyond the sewers floor tiles and the dwarven mines you don't need to keep any room set to itself.
3. You can more easily make a single focal building with tactical space with Woodhaven than if you use a prebuild or 3d printed building. If players are not forewarned about the layout of a manor house or keep you can surprise them as they move from room to room and level to level. While trying to make a town or village with Woodhaven is pretty pointless, making a single large manor as a 'boss building' can make sense, and use other products for the generic structures.
4. You can use the extended clips in D&L2 and the rim extensions from this product to turn dungeon tiles into a stone manor or castle space. Having a few Woodhaven room kits will accentuate that with the result being a 'Germanic' castle with a single large keep with stone walls on multiple levels with some parts of the upper stories wood frame fechwerk (sp?). This could get nasty as you can build a large impressive single building and get your players to run the gauntlet in 3d space.

For the record I will be buying several village pledges likely three to four. I expect to get:
- my single uniques like the ghost dragon and giant
- several Townsfolk boxes to give me an army and assorted population.
- several stretchgoals to ensure that those things I need multiples of I have multiples of.
- A sewer with every set, so I can add a large sewer set up. I have enough fantasy core.
- One of each Woodhaven building room for variation.
- One roof per set for permanent prebuilds.
- Rest in whatever else comes, larva rooms maybe.

I do expect to use Woodhaven building sets to add variety in dungeons, even if some walls are not very useable. However I can see the merit in reversing this and building a castle out of dungeon tiles. As many rooms are prebuilt it will be more like lego and stick together well.

I should be able to make a foot cube keep with added wings. It will be a very dangerous above ground dungeon for adventurers who have not pre-scouted the place.

Just some thoughts.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/11 23:28:26


Post by: ced1106


> New room theme added - Lava Caverns available in a choice of translucent plastic. Nice addition but not a building or building part which should be the focus of the KS.

IIRC, Archon did a FB poll of translucent designs, and lava won out. Yay, FB. :/

> I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Roughly, each Room set is 9 game tiles, and each Roof set is 20 game tiles. I guess I'm concerned if a Roof set has enough tiles for the configuration you want -- roofs (and circular structures) are *hard* to design right, because of the angle of the roof.

Also, I guess it also depends on if you're going to put furniture inside of it. The Reaper church from their graveyard set looks great as a terrain piece, but it's too small to put my Mantic church terrain inside.

And if you wanna cheat, you can always do a facade! Build up some village walls, paint them different shades and colors to suggest more than one building adjacent to each other. Even today, historical old buildings were narrow and had no space between them!

Time to get out the graph paper and plan a city, I suppose...

Spoiler:


Finally, Woodhaven has doors! Closed door set.





Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 01:22:58


Post by: Vain


 Orlanth wrote:

It sounds very wrong.

Town grants you 11 rooms, 1 Townsfolk and 1 stretchgoal set for 169 Euro.
2x Village grants you 10 rooms, 2 Townsfolk and 2 stretchgoals for 170 Euro

Dilute all City or Town pledges into multiple villages. To buy the extra room for a Village pledge will cost 17 Euro, to buy an extra stretchgoal costs 25 Euro.

SNIP

1. More stretchgoals are better, and you would be advised to pick up D&L1 and D&L2 stretchgoals as they will furnish your buildings.


Thanks a bunch for this comment. I didn't realise difference this would make.
Definitely going to do this to take advantage of duplicated Stretch Goals and Villagers at the cost of 1 room.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 06:39:32


Post by: Azazelx


 Orlanth wrote:

However to do this at any reasonable scale will require an ENORMOUS investment. Remember the maths a 5x5 tile grid is twice (more or less) a 4x4 tile grid which is twice more or less a 3x3 grid. When you add 3d and multiple storeys it can get crazy fast. To make a decent tile set for a good sized playable dungeon you need to drop at least $400 on D&L. Less if you destroy and reuse assets behind you, which is frankly not recommended. To make a decent urban set up with streets and buildings some sewers but no dungeon will cost at least $600 to do a reasonable job and the resulting settlement will not get a 'town' feel with an investment of less than $1000. A 3d printer costs $250 with all the bells and whistles and plenty of ammo, plus another $50 for a decent selection of stl files to print.


This is why I'm really not sure what the hell to actually get in this KS. I'm basically in it for the townfolk and stretch goals. I already got the dragons last time, and buying a 3d printer and some STL files seems a far better idea than trying to make buildings out of these dinky little tiles, or even "dungeon floorplans" for that matter. I mean, I'm backed for a "village" but the themes and parts all look like a high quality waste of time unless you're willing to part with the price of a used car so I dunno. 1x Sewers and 3x City Streets?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 07:04:20


Post by: Orlanth


 Vain wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:

It sounds very wrong.

Town grants you 11 rooms, 1 Townsfolk and 1 stretchgoal set for 169 Euro.
2x Village grants you 10 rooms, 2 Townsfolk and 2 stretchgoals for 170 Euro

Dilute all City or Town pledges into multiple villages.


Thanks a bunch for this comment. I didn't realise difference this would make.
Definitely going to do this to take advantage of duplicated Stretch Goals and Villagers at the cost of 1 room.


Archon have not made any of the higher pledge levels attractive with exception of Dragon's Lair. That is a recurring feature.


 Azazelx wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:

However to do this at any reasonable scale will require an ENORMOUS investment. Remember the maths a 5x5 tile grid is twice (more or less) a 4x4 tile grid which is twice more or less a 3x3 grid. When you add 3d and multiple storeys it can get crazy fast. To make a decent tile set for a good sized playable dungeon you need to drop at least $400 on D&L. Less if you destroy and reuse assets behind you, which is frankly not recommended. To make a decent urban set up with streets and buildings some sewers but no dungeon will cost at least $600 to do a reasonable job and the resulting settlement will not get a 'town' feel with an investment of less than $1000. A 3d printer costs $250 with all the bells and whistles and plenty of ammo, plus another $50 for a decent selection of stl files to print.


This is why I'm really not sure what the hell to actually get in this KS. I'm basically in it for the townfolk and stretch goals. I already got the dragons last time, and buying a 3d printer and some STL files seems a far better idea than trying to make buildings out of these dinky little tiles, or even "dungeon floorplans" for that matter. I mean, I'm backed for a "village" but the themes and parts all look like a high quality waste of time unless you're willing to part with the price of a used car so I dunno. 1x Sewers and 3x City Streets?


We are in the same boat here. You recognise the value of the stretchgoals and see them as the main point in turning up.
I cannot advise you as to what you want. I am getting Sewers for all my village core options, my main question is how many village pledges do I want, which is linked to how many multiple stretchgoal sets and townsfolk army units do I need to make use of them properly*. Its the guiding factor.
Which rooms to buy is a true afterthought. Roofs can be handy, but city streets are a waste of plastic, get a two sided gaming mat with cobbles on one side for your urban terrain. Also your streets will have a hard edge with connectors. You can ignore the connectors edge if they are in the 'void' of a dungeon wall on the black cloth mat, or other neutral surface. But the legoised edge of a continuous terrain piece that blends onto more terrain would be jarring.



* Unless things change in the stretchgoals, or things are shaken up by a new room type that needs a lot of attention, the answer appears to be three.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 10:12:58


Post by: lord_blackfang


I initially came for just the stretch goals, with anything else being more or less a freebie, but the SG pack isn't shaping up the way I want, far too many NPCs and not enough terrain bits. If I wanted a KoW Kingdoms of Men army then multiples of the base townsfolk pack would be pretty epic but I don't.

So what am I even pledging for now, dungeon tiles I don't even need, out of pure FOMO on a good deal...?

I'd feel a lot better if someone put out a D&L-to-openLOCK transition set so I would know I can at least easily expand the dungeon if I want to.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 10:56:38


Post by: Orlanth


The stretchgoals are quite good and we are only halfway there. Projects like this make most of their money in the first 24 hours and the last 48.
Expect more.

Even so there is a lot of good stuff on offer, most of the best add ons are only seen as discrete pencil drawings but look to be promising additions.

The forge will probably be quite big, as will the throne, bed, sewer entrance in 3d, multi part tavern counter and weapons racks.

It is certainly more than keeping pace with the stretchgoals of D&L2, minus the dragon spam, and far exceeds D&L1 and doesnt waste miniature sculpts on animal mascots.

Furniture add ons are more discrete than in D&L2 campaign, but appear to ber about the same volume. Which means we will be looking at a four box stretchgoal again including Townsfolk.

Still if you want extra furnishings 25 Euro isnt a bad price for the box if you didn't get enough last time.

Did you get larger pledges for D&L2, or did you buy multiple 99 Euro pledges? Buy tactically then as now and you will not be short of furnishings.




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 11:09:00


Post by: DaveC


 Alpharius wrote:
I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


Here's what a Village (5 Rooms) can build if you take 1 Roof 1 Stone Tower (better for buildings than the Castle theme), 1 Wooden Cottage and 2 Tudor - these can be swapped around a bit and still build the same. It's not optimal and there's a few compromises - The 2nd 2 Storey Tudor building needs 2 cottage parts to work and the while there is enough trims they may not be of the correct theme. The more you vary the design from a square block the more parts it takes the less you can build. I didn't work out floors as there's more than enough and there will be plenty leftover.

In total a Village set should make 2 x 2 Storey buildings and 2 x 1 Storey cottages - you could combine the two 1 storey buildngs into a single 2 storey building and have a few bits left to expand the other 2 storey buildings a bit maybe stretch 1 into an L shape?. A Town pledge should make double but I'd go Village x2 and swap the 2nd townsfolk for another room for 11 in total that might stretch to 9 buildings.


[Thumb - IMG-1094.jpg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 11:34:23


Post by: lord_blackfang


My D&L inventory so far is

2x D&L 1 Stretch Goals
4x D&L 2 Stretch Goals
7 Dragons

So I'm starting from scratch on the tile part but I have a nice starting pool of furniture (plus I have all Mantic Terraincrates).

My thought process is this:

I want Townsfolk and Stretch Goals

That's 29+25€

It's only 31€ more to pledge Village and get terrain plus Nubble, Pepe, Dragon... basically terrain is free.

However, if I want a useful amount, I feel like I need some more than just 1 Village. Fantasy Core is the best value by far, being more than 4 rooms worth of floors and walls for the cost of only 2 rooms or 34€. So let's add it as an Add On.

But now let's imagine I bought two Fantasy Cores for 68€. At this point it's only 17€ more to get a second Village instead, with almost exactly the same amount of tiles (1 Core and 4 Rooms) but with different style options, plus another set of SG. If I use a second KS account for the pledge I can also score a second Pepe and Dragon, at the cost of two separate shipping charges.

So here I am on two independent Village Pledges to get, probably, 2x Fantasy Core, 3-4 Dwarven Mine, 1-2 each Torture Chamber, Lava Cave and Warlock Altar, to hopefully have a good ratio of modularity vs variety (only getting 1 room in a style is very, very limited in the layouts you can do without leftovers).

But really I'm buying a second Village just to make the "free" terrain from my first Village useful. Eh? The option is constantly gnawing at the back of my mind to just cancel everything and buy a few spools of 3d print filament instead.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 11:51:17


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


I am glad they added doors for the new building doorways… I really did not want to see Doorgate 2.

Is it just me or are we seeing a medieval fantasy Thor (Royal Guard) and Batman (Mountain Knight) in the stretchgoals already? Are there other superheroes I missed?

Does it feel to you like there are several different artists designing different miniatures with different aesthetics rather than a single aesthetic vision tying them all together?

My wife and I tried to get a better idea of what we would need to pledge for to creat buildings using bits we got from D&L 2. picture a roof on the hall on the right, the yard on the left with the Dwarven Forge fountain and Hagglethorn Hollow statues being open air with the half walls. Not perfect but you can see the beginning of a decent medieval fantasy church.

[Thumb - C21F1B4B-7724-445C-AEDA-8DA4E63BA2CD.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 11:57:00


Post by: lord_blackfang


I thought it was Black Panther, with the tooth necklace and no cape.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 12:20:23


Post by: Azazelx


 Orlanth wrote:

We are in the same boat here. You recognise the value of the stretchgoals and see them as the main point in turning up.
I cannot advise you as to what you want. I am getting Sewers for all my village core options, my main question is how many village pledges do I want, which is linked to how many multiple stretchgoal sets and townsfolk army units do I need to make use of them properly*. Its the guiding factor.
Which rooms to buy is a true afterthought. Roofs can be handy, but city streets are a waste of plastic, get a two sided gaming mat with cobbles on one side for your urban terrain. Also your streets will have a hard edge with connectors. You can ignore the connectors edge if they are in the 'void' of a dungeon wall on the black cloth mat, or other neutral surface. But the legoised edge of a continuous terrain piece that blends onto more terrain would be jarring.
* Unless things change in the stretchgoals, or things are shaken up by a new room type that needs a lot of attention, the answer appears to be three.


Yeah, I'm just going a single pledge since I already have more models than I'll ever paint, so I don't need to make a new army out of the Guards, and the NPC townsfolk will likely be all the rabble I'll need for my purposes. I was hopinng that in the way one "core" can be traded for two "rooms" that it would work in the reverse way so I could trade in two rooms for a second sewers, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I've got a few different mats already, but given how limted the "room" sets are unless you have a ton of them, the streets looked like they might be the most useful since I'm more of a wargamer/skimish gamer, and am happy with card tiles for RPGS (and will buy a FDM printer eventually anyway). So in that the streets seemed not great, but better than roofless buildings. It'd be those or the gimmick "lava" room as a "maybe I'll think of something cool to do with this one day?" option...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

My wife and I tried to get a better idea of what we would need to pledge for to creat buildings using bits we got from D&L 2. picture a roof on the hall on the right, the yard on the left with the Dwarven Forge fountain and Hagglethorn Hollow statues being open air with the half walls. Not perfect but you can see the beginning of a decent medieval fantasy church.


Without derailing this thread too much (so I won't add links) but you might be interested in some of the Pegasus Hobbies stuff as well....


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 12:27:51


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I thought it was Black Panther, with the tooth necklace and no cape.


Fair point, I’ll have that. Still makes me wonder what superhero is next.

As for Pegasus Hobbies, we use some of their stone walls…. albeit with some personal modifications.

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/2021/04/26/walls-yes-walls-and-more/



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 12:39:15


Post by: Dolnikan


I'm mostly in it for the stretch goals and minis (never enough townsfolk and furniture for me) with the tiles as a bonus. And as some others are, I'm planning on turning them all into a few extra buildings. The basic idea so far is to get the fantasy core to be used as the ground floors that have been a bit neglected. On top of that would come either the Tudor or the wood for the living quarters and then a set of roofs. I'm only a bit concerned that the Tudor will look a bit too fancy on top of the basic dungeon walls which are a bit more run-down.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 12:40:47


Post by: KipCujo


 DaveC wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


Here's what a Village (5 Rooms) can build if you take 1 Roof 1 Stone Tower (better for buildings than the Castle theme), 1 Wooden Cottage and 2 Tudor - these can be swapped around a bit and still build the same. It's not optimal and there's a few compromises - The 2nd 2 Storey Tudor building needs 2 cottage parts to work and the while there is enough trims they may not be of the correct theme. The more you vary the design from a square block the more parts it takes the less you can build. I didn't work out floors as there's more than enough and there will be plenty leftover.

In total a Village set should make 2 x 2 Storey buildings and 2 x 1 Storey cottages - you could combine the two 1 storey buildngs into a single 2 storey building and have a few bits left to expand the other 2 storey buildings a bit maybe stretch 1 into an L shape?. A Town pledge should make double but I'd go Village x2 and swap the 2nd townsfolk for another room for 11 in total that might stretch to 9 buildings.



These diagrams are really helpful. How would your estimates/plans evolve if you used the Core Sets to build a "foundation" floor, and put the Room Sets above as the second story? Presumably there would be enough walls and floors to extend any of these estimates at least one story higher, but I'm wondering if there would be enough left over to create various L-shaped extensions that might leave you short on roofs, but justify an additional crenelation or balustrade add-on to create balconies.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 12:45:20


Post by: lord_blackfang


I have the whole Pegasus gothic ruins range, it's fantastic for games like Frostgrave.

As to what I'd use D&L for, I was pretty impressed with the procedurally generated dungeon game mode of Cursed City so something like that. I'm thinking 10-15 self-contained dungeon "rooms" of varying shapes and sizes and a few corridors, with randomized rotation and entryways should give enough variety. Finding enjoyable rules will be a challenge but it always is.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 13:13:28


Post by: Orlanth


 DaveC wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


Here's what a Village (5 Rooms) can build if you take 1 Roof 1 Stone Tower (better for buildings than the Castle theme), 1 Wooden Cottage and 2 Tudor - these can be swapped around a bit and still build the same. It's not optimal and there's a few compromises - The 2nd 2 Storey Tudor building needs 2 cottage parts to work and the while there is enough trims they may not be of the correct theme. The more you vary the design from a square block the more parts it takes the less you can build. I didn't work out floors as there's more than enough and there will be plenty leftover.

In total a Village set should make 2 x 2 Storey buildings and 2 x 1 Storey cottages - you could combine the two 1 storey buildings into a single 2 storey building and have a few bits left to expand the other 2 storey buildings a bit maybe stretch 1 into an L shape?. A Town pledge should make double but I'd go Village x2 and swap the 2nd townsfolk for another room for 11 in total that might stretch to 9 buildings.


Thank you Dave C for your in depth workout.
I still prefer to shorten it to 1 village = 2 buildings of 4x2 2 storeys.
But that doesnt account for getting the most every piece.

While I appreciate getting the most out of every tile and wall my main problem here is that you showcase on 2x2 buildings of one or more storeys. In practicality this means one room per storey.
This forfeits the one advantage Woodhaven might have as a building system, the ability to make variant interiors (other than furnishings).

With one or two storey 2x2 buildings as the build goal I would thoroughly recommend Dakkaites getting hold of Tabletop Workshop buildings and outfit them with Dungeons and Lasers bits.

Spoiler:




I specifically referred to Dakkaites as that advice could suffice for those who read this thread but is not a universal truth. Tabletop Workshop has been out of business since 2015, you can get their buildings and at a fair price, so long as not everyone is looking.

The above pictures showcase all six: Town House, Merchant House, Chapel, Barn, Cottage and Stables. All have the same assembly method and footprint, the Town House and Merchant House include an additional piece for a wooden floor to the upper level. Windows will be a little low for 28mm but not unreasonable for actual medieval houses which could have low windows. You will need to add a 28mm flat door to the doorway on the outside. You can overlook doing that from the inside and get away with it.

Buy smart and you can pick up a dozen of these for about the price of a Village pledge, but as with all OOP stuff prices vary tremendously.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
My D&L inventory so far is

2x D&L 1 Stretch Goals
4x D&L 2 Stretch Goals
7 Dragons
So I'm starting from scratch on the tile part but I have a nice starting pool of furniture (plus I have all Mantic Terraincrates).


Does that mean you just bought the dragon pledge and extra stretch goal boxes? If so and you havent got into the tile dungeons and evidently dont want to continue as before.
But my comments from earlier remain valid. You get enough with stretchgoals you might as well have the main pledge.

I bought some Mantic Terrain crate, but not all, it wasnt quite as a good a value, even with the Kickstarter bonuses. Mantic did a far better job with composition of its Terrain crate sets, there is a lot of useful genericity and no waste. Every model helps fill the background, tell a story or define a space.
However while composition was superior manufacturing quality is not. Terrain Crate varies from passable to utter crud. Too many fiddly things made of soft plastic, a crying shame.

The one exception was not actually Terrain crate but the scenario objective add ons (initially) for Vanguard. Not only did they do a good sculpt and use a better plastic but tghese items really tell a story and are so useful. Total recommendation coming:

https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/mantic-terrain-and-scenery/56274-terraincrate-battlefield-objectives-vanguard



 lord_blackfang wrote:

My thought process is this:

I want Townsfolk and Stretch Goals

That's 29+25€

It's only 31€ more to pledge Village and get terrain plus Nubble, Pepe, Dragon... basically terrain is free.


Correct. Don't just buy stretchgoals. For D&L2 rather than getting a stretchgoal box I would get a small Dungeon pledge get five rooms (let us assume I didnt want them for now), a stretchgoal set, a dragon of my choice and a chinese dragon. That is about even and I could sell the rooms.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

However, if I want a useful amount, I feel like I need some more than just 1 Village. Fantasy Core is the best value by far, being more than 4 rooms worth of floors and walls for the cost of only 2 rooms or 34€. So let's add it as an Add On.

But now let's imagine I bought two Fantasy Cores for 68€. At this point it's only 17€ more to get a second Village instead, with almost exactly the same amount of tiles (1 Core and 4 Rooms) but with different style options, plus another set of SG. If I use a second KS account for the pledge I can also score a second Pepe and Dragon, at the cost of two separate shipping charges.

So here I am on two independent Village Pledges to get, probably, 2x Fantasy Core, 3-4 Dwarven Mine, 1-2 each Torture Chamber, Lava Cave and Warlock Altar, to hopefully have a good ratio of modularity vs variety (only getting 1 room in a style is very, very limited in the layouts you can do without leftovers).

But really I'm buying a second Village just to make the "free" terrain from my first Village useful. Eh? The option is constantly gnawing at the back of my mind to just cancel everything and buy a few spools of 3d print filament instead.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.


You have put up with my TED, so happy to return favour.
What you are saying is sound.
If I were late to the dungeon party and wanted in now I would do something similar.

Fantasy core is the way to go. I would get three core.

Dwarven Mine is a style that should have been made into a coreset, and just drop the word dwarven. I ended up with five mine sets in order to have enough mine for a mine. This will be inefficient the alternative to going big is going home. Make mines caves out of polystyrene and cut the cave/mine walls with a polystyrene cutter, mount them on sturdy card and make modular cave/mine sections. You could make a transition pierce and hot glue on some D&L so there can be a connector to the dungeon system all mines eventually tunnel into (or the other way around).
In hindsight I should have done that, but didn't and I have the mines now. Even so 5 sets doesn't give me that much.

All other room sets should be 0-1 until you are ready do drop a lot more. You don't really need them as rooms, even individual tiles and walls mixed in has the same effect and remember they are double sided. The Warlock tileset long wall has a huge pentagram on one side and a wall length bookcase the other. It is not subtle. Just that one wall will be enough to convey a library or fane, and remember each wall also conveys both. If you have an altar room on one side you automatically have a library on the other. The only way around that is to have the other side of the wall in the void. Now the Warlock room set is a more extreme theme product but most are like that to some extent. The Hall of Heroes does work as a room set, but you don't need that for more than one room. Hold on a moment I need to cough.... thanks for your patience.... just choking on my hypocrisy for a moment there, I have three.

Yep, I am a terrain whale.

I do believe if you drop money on D&L dungeons you will not regret the purchase, but get three village pledges worth of dungeon stuff to do it properly, though you can do with less if your budget will not stretch.
Yes do buy the open doors but expect to have some unfilled doorways and some doors left over. You can do some conversion work in some cases.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
I am glad they added doors for the new building doorways… I really did not want to see Doorgate 2.


They do not open though.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Is it just me or are we seeing a medieval fantasy Thor (Royal Guard) and Batman (Mountain Knight) in the stretchgoals already? Are there other superheroes I missed?


I am not very observant, and completely missed this theme going on until you pointed it out.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Does it feel to you like there are several different artists designing different miniatures with different aesthetics rather than a single aesthetic vision tying them all together?


It seems more to me that there is a cohesive art style, but the directing mind has the attention span of a butterfly.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

My wife and I tried to get a better idea of what we would need to pledge for to creat buildings using bits we got from D&L 2. picture a roof on the hall on the right, the yard on the left with the Dwarven Forge fountain and Hagglethorn Hollow statues being open air with the half walls. Not perfect but you can see the beginning of a decent medieval fantasy church.


1. Tabletop Workshop - Pre built plastic buildings. Requires successful search check to source.
2. Townbuilder Unlimited - Simplified CAD for home design generic buildings. https://www.townsmith.de/shop#versions Requires design skill checks.
3. City of Tarok - STL files. Amazing buildings at a decent price. https://www.blackscrollsgames.com/kickstarter-pledge/. Requires reading existing Dakka thread HERE


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 13:26:28


Post by: lord_blackfang


Regarding the doors, I feel like the default 3 open doorways per room set is plenty, and as for functional doors, most of us probably prioritize just being able to mark doorways as open or closed, not really fussed about literal working hinges. So it wouldn't be too hard to CAD up printable doors that can just be popped in and out of the doorway, especially as Archon released doorway STLs so we already have a digital negative image of the shape.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 13:38:26


Post by: Orlanth


The doorways are fragile enough with HIPS plastic. 3d printed doorways will likely fall apart lickety split.

I wasn't too enthusiastic about that 'solution'.during the door problem.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 13:49:30


Post by: lord_blackfang


I mean just print a door "cork" you can plug into the plastic doorway.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 14:03:35


Post by: DaveC


KipCujo wrote:
Spoiler:
 DaveC wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


Here's what a Village (5 Rooms) can build if you take 1 Roof 1 Stone Tower (better for buildings than the Castle theme), 1 Wooden Cottage and 2 Tudor - these can be swapped around a bit and still build the same. It's not optimal and there's a few compromises - The 2nd 2 Storey Tudor building needs 2 cottage parts to work and the while there is enough trims they may not be of the correct theme. The more you vary the design from a square block the more parts it takes the less you can build. I didn't work out floors as there's more than enough and there will be plenty leftover.

In total a Village set should make 2 x 2 Storey buildings and 2 x 1 Storey cottages - you could combine the two 1 storey buildngs into a single 2 storey building and have a few bits left to expand the other 2 storey buildings a bit maybe stretch 1 into an L shape?. A Town pledge should make double but I'd go Village x2 and swap the 2nd townsfolk for another room for 11 in total that might stretch to 9 buildings.



These diagrams are really helpful. How would your estimates/plans evolve if you used the Core Sets to build a "foundation" floor, and put the Room Sets above as the second story? Presumably there would be enough walls and floors to extend any of these estimates at least one story higher, but I'm wondering if there would be enough left over to create various L-shaped extensions that might leave you short on roofs, but justify an additional crenelation or balustrade add-on to create balconies.


The main limitation is the number of roof pieces you will only get 4 buildings from a roof room set. You can definitely use the Fantasy core to build the ground floors and stretch the footprint but keep in mind that there will be no windows on the ground floor if you do that. I certainly wouldn't use fantasy core on the first floors just to add height. 1 Roof, 1 Fantasy Core, 2 Tudor and a Balustrade add on will get you something like the attached you should get 2 versions of the first design so again 4 buildings. There will be a good bit of fantasy core left over.

Orlanth I agree as I said these are suboptimal designs to maximise bits the more you use the less buildings you get 3x2 or 4x2 would give greater flexibility but half your number of buildings. I've mocked up a Castle House that I think will need 2 Castle rooms, 1 Roof, 1 Tudor, 3 Battlements and probably 1/2 a fantasy core for the ground floor. That's a village in one building with some bits left over. Open doors can also be used as archways.


[Thumb - IMG-1095.jpg]
[Thumb - IMG-1096.jpg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 14:09:13


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Considering the fragility of the functional doors that folks keep taking about, I am ok with permanently doors. I prefer that to open doorways on the exterior.

We are not getting into 3d printing any time soon.

Tabletop Workshop is something we will keep our eyes open for. We have used Renedra before (and I will likely used Renedra Middle Eastern buildings in the future) but have not tried Tabletop Workshop yet.

EDIT: I really wish we could get more stone tower and wooden walls without windows. The boarded up look of the Fantasy Core set puts me off using the Fantasy Core set walls as windowless stone walls.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 15:04:26


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I mean just print a door "cork" you can plug into the plastic doorway.


Just downloaded the files for a look. Only the doorways are available, which is same as what I had heard.

 DaveC wrote:

Orlanth I agree as I said these are suboptimal designs to maximise bits the more you use the less buildings you get 3x2 or 4x2 would give greater flexibility but half your number of buildings. I've mocked up a Castle House that I think will need 2 Castle rooms, 1 Roof, 1 Tudor, 3 Battlements and probably 1/2 a fantasy core for the ground floor. That's a village in one building with some bits left over. Open doors can also be used as archways.


I like your castle design, good use of the product..

I prefer mine:
Zvezda Medieval Stone Castle

Made of modular subsections which makes the kit very useful for kitbashers. 1:72 scale, but only the doors are to that scale, 28mm models work fine so long as the doors are replaced. Oddly the battlements and windows are better with 28mm.
or the 'upgraded' version:
Zvezda Royal Castle

Has wall section upgrades and added bitz. Usually substantially more expensive.

Do shop around for this stuff. I bought out the Zvezda castle stock of a small model shop outside Paris which had been sitting on some shelves for about a decade. Very shop worn but undamaged, you could just tell it was a cobweb gatherer. This is odd as these sets go out of stock rapidly elsewhere. anyway I bought two of each kit, and a Lancelot castle set which looks very kitsch but is compatible and has unique bitz for castle building.
Unlike Woodhaven you will have to glue the keeps together, though you can make the wall sections separately and the towers. The Medieval Stone Castle was late rerun, I bought my pair of that kits from a German website which does get restocks. You can find all this stuff if you look for it hard enough, and can get a decent price if you are patient.
You get a working portcullis and drawbridge in each set if that helps. Though interiors are NOT sculpted so you will need to handle that yourself. But with a little planning (evidently a stregth of yours) you can have a very good semi modular quality castle set, and yes Archon products can furnish the castle and provide interior walls of the keep.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


Tabletop Workshop is something we will keep our eyes open for. We have used Renedra before (and I will likely used Renedra Middle Eastern buildings in the future) but have not tried Tabletop Workshop yet.

EDIT: I really wish we could get more stone tower and wooden walls without windows. The boarded up look of the Fantasy Core set puts me off using the Fantasy Core set walls as windowless stone walls.


Renedra has nice stuff but it is not modular or easy to kitbash.

Now Warlord Games has active stock of Tabletop Workshop buildings and imply they can be made to order. So maybe they have the licence and molds, but are not actively plugging the line and are only selling on request.
However, it promises to be an active source and may be worth a check. The website is hard to navigate to get to the items.

https://store.warlordgames.com/products/cottage?_pos=1&_sid=2f1f18c50&_ss=r&variant=31469057638480
https://store.warlordgames.com/products/merchants-house?_pos=2&_sid=7c968b9ad&_ss=r

You might be better off contacting Warlord Games and asking for the rest. You can get them now though. Price is not bad for a building, keep them one room per level though, that is not unusual for medival houses, but glue in some Archon furniture bits. You may wish to not use the base thy come with to avoid the interior raise and better use 28mm minis inside.
For doors get Mantic doors if you cant get old GW ones and make a press mold and make a veneer of the door out of green stuff, file the 25mm door flat and add the new door.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 15:12:57


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Being located in Germany, ordering directly from Warlord Games is a hassle since Brexit…. Which is a shame, I used to order from them directly, particularly during their sprue sales…. but not the last one, thanks to Brexit.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 15:16:37


Post by: DaveC


I actually have 2 Zvezda castles some parts are out of scale for AoS others like the walls have no defined scale. They are a great source for kit bashing alright but I wouldn’t use one out of the box. I intend to use the Zvezda castle wall panels to make the lower retaining walls where dual sided detail isn’t required if I go ahead with Castle House to save on material costs it will probably end up nearly 2 foot x 1.5 foot and needs to be game friendly.

The Renedra castle is nice but getting onto the pricey side and there are so many gaps that need filing it just doesn’t go together well.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 15:20:00


Post by: lord_blackfang


 Orlanth wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
I mean just print a door "cork" you can plug into the plastic doorway.


Just downloaded the files for a look. Only the doorways are available, which is same as what I had heard.


Yes, but the doorway is a negative image of the door, shouldn't be hard to trace the hole and CAD up a matching door. If nobody else will I'll do it for the themes I buy.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 15:26:11


Post by: Orlanth


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Being located in Germany, ordering directly from Warlord Games is a hassle since Brexit…. Which is a shame, I used to order from them directly, particularly during their sprue sales…. but not the last one, thanks to Brexit.


I could help there. Though I would have to reship without the packaging or otherwise altered in a way to make the product second hand then it has an arbitrary value You don't need instructions to assemble (which on the box lid inside).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DaveC wrote:
I actually have 2 Zvezda castles some parts are out of scale for AoS others like the walls have no defined scale. They are a great source for kit bashing alright but I wouldn’t use one out of the box. I intend to use the Zvezda castle wall panels to make the lower retaining walls where dual sided detail isn’t required if I go ahead with Castle House to save on material costs it will probably end up nearly 2 foot x 1.5 foot and needs to be game friendly.


AOS isn't 28mm anymore. D&L doorways would likely actually help a lot to make a Zvezda castle function for AOS. Primaris marines can fit in (most) D&L doorways.

 DaveC wrote:

The Renedra castle is nice but getting onto the pricey side and there are so many gaps that need filing it just doesn’t go together well.


Thanks for that. I was going to buy a Renedra keep to mix it up a bit as a stand alone item. But I had not heard from someone who built one. I certainly didn't need an extra keep, maybe I will not bother.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 18:26:18


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Thanks for the offer Orlanth. I used to live in the UK for a decade, so have people there who can do the same but it is very generous of you to offer. I hate bothering folks with things like that in general, except on very rare cases. It is nice to see someone offer to help a relative stranger on the internet though. Thanks for that.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 19:32:36


Post by: lord_blackfang


Breaking news, Archon will be throwing in sprues of sculpted Woodhaven bases to cover all Townsfolk and Stretch Goal minis.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 19:47:26


Post by: DaveC


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Breaking news, Archon will be throwing in sprues of sculpted Woodhaven bases to cover all Townsfolk and Stretch Goal minis.


I assumed they came with the bases but at least this confirms they do

Ok to be clear on this. It meant to be a surprise for you but OK, let me blow it. Every model, including SG will have sculpted bases. We have prepared a pack (sprue full of bases) that will go with townfolks (as shown on miniature renders) and the same pack will go with SG models. So there will be for sure a bit more bases to choose from when you assembly your models, plus it will give you some assembly flexibility. Some model : Troll, Giant, Dragon and 48h model will have their own sculpted base that will be on models sprue (as they will be probably separate sprues). That pack will also include that necromancer base.


So that's 120+ 25 and 50mm sculpted HIPs bases as well included for the €85 pledge - GW charge €30 for 70 sculpted bases.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 20:43:54


Post by: lord_blackfang


And now also a confirmation in the comments that Sewers and Lava Cave will be offered in the same array of transparent colours.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 22:17:01


Post by: Alpharius


 Vain wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:

It sounds very wrong.

Town grants you 11 rooms, 1 Townsfolk and 1 stretchgoal set for 169 Euro.
2x Village grants you 10 rooms, 2 Townsfolk and 2 stretchgoals for 170 Euro

Dilute all City or Town pledges into multiple villages. To buy the extra room for a Village pledge will cost 17 Euro, to buy an extra stretchgoal costs 25 Euro.

SNIP

1. More stretchgoals are better, and you would be advised to pick up D&L1 and D&L2 stretchgoals as they will furnish your buildings.


Thanks a bunch for this comment. I didn't realise difference this would make.
Definitely going to do this to take advantage of duplicated Stretch Goals and Villagers at the cost of 1 room.


Indeed - thank you for the breakdown!

 DaveC wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
I'm in it for the building...so, could some kind soul figure out what the best way to do that would be?

I'm currently in for a Town Pledge, which I think I'd use to get a mix of 5 actual room sets (not sure if castle, wooden or Tudor) and 2 roof sets, figuring in at least a few 2 story buildings...

Does this sound about right?


Here's what a Village (5 Rooms) can build if you take 1 Roof 1 Stone Tower (better for buildings than the Castle theme), 1 Wooden Cottage and 2 Tudor - these can be swapped around a bit and still build the same. It's not optimal and there's a few compromises - The 2nd 2 Storey Tudor building needs 2 cottage parts to work and the while there is enough trims they may not be of the correct theme. The more you vary the design from a square block the more parts it takes the less you can build. I didn't work out floors as there's more than enough and there will be plenty leftover.

In total a Village set should make 2 x 2 Storey buildings and 2 x 1 Storey cottages - you could combine the two 1 storey buildngs into a single 2 storey building and have a few bits left to expand the other 2 storey buildings a bit maybe stretch 1 into an L shape?. A Town pledge should make double but I'd go Village x2 and swap the 2nd townsfolk for another room for 11 in total that might stretch to 9 buildings.



Thank you too Dave - your breakdowns and sketches are fantastic, and very helpful!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/12 23:17:14


Post by: Orlanth


Why does Archon do as they do? Why do they have an entry pledge which is more efficient than higher level pledges, unlike most Kickstarters.

The answer is that they make more money by channelling your thinking.

Think on this: What is your pledge? Village, town or city? Small, medium or large dungeon?

Multiple villages most here now say, and multiple small dungeons. We can see a bargain, or at least most people can. Some cant and buy their pledge, but two thirds are in it at village level and a high proportion of those will be in at multiple village level, either now or in the pledge manager.

Everyone likes a bargain and we see the bargain in the large free stretchgoals, and we know to get two villages over a town and three villages over a city.
What this means is a genuine saving, but not necessarily less spending.
What Archon has done during this is to condition us not to think 'what is your pledge', but 'how many pledges will you make'.
Multiple pledges need not stop at two or three, whereas if there are larger pledges, while you can buy more most will not even think to do so.

Do not think you are playing the system by making multiple village pledges and maxing out stretchgoals. Archon are fine with that. Though they did overdo it last time and the free dragons became a loss leader.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 10:49:17


Post by: lord_blackfang


Ha ha very true. It's like the Medium drink that is the worst value for money and exists only to sell Large drinks.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 10:57:10


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ha ha very true. It's like the Medium drink that is the worst value for money and exists only to sell Large drinks.


Not quite, all sizes sell, and there is a mental jump between buying the supersize and buying two. On that note I only order from the £1 menu at McDonalds and Burger King. However most people come in for the big burgers costing £4, I get four burgers for that and end up with more, and more variety than the delux burger because I mix in the chicken and fish burger options. But I do not consider the bigger burgers to be a mental channel for the £1 menu, most people don't order the budget items. That being said I don't go to burger joints often, normally only when travelling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We have crossed the 800K Euro threshold and the giant is unlocked.
Archon have been quick on this to update the campaign screen to show this milestone has been achieved already.

Remember the giant is one per customer, not one per pledge.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 14:46:19


Post by: DaveC


€800,000 reached and the Giant is unlocked as mentioned it’s 1 per backer not pledge and it’s not included in the €25 SG pack. I'd say the funding is about 4 days ahead of schedule as this was probably a last 48 hour goal. The troll might be doable today as well



Vote for a fountain design - classic is like the AoS one but it's my preferred choice as it's generic.



Fire Elemental sculpt



Wooden Cottage Room is finished and tooled and is now rapid delivery - remember if you are pledging for multiple villages keep all the Rapid Delivery stuff in the same pledge set as you pay RD postage per pledge.



And the base sprue WIP







Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 15:13:51


Post by: lord_blackfang


I'm going to be the angry whale again and say they might as well not do votes as the most generic option always wins, and in my book generic does not mean "most useful" it means "I already have this because 5 other companies already sell it"


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 15:18:05


Post by: Orlanth


Don't worry, with the votes you normally get both or in this case all three options anyway.

Besides this whale like generics. Blowhole that!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 16:59:45


Post by: DaveC


Yeah the votes are mostly to appease the Kicktraq hot list algorithm I'm sure they'll cycle back to some of these later.

The total has now passed the funding total for D&L2 and the Troll is added - 1 per backer. The Necromancer is next at €815k then the fountain at €825k.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 17:09:24


Post by: Orlanth


Is that the reason why the Troll was a strange number 806697. I took it that the person the troll was modelled on was born 6th June 1997.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/13 17:10:56


Post by: DaveC


Yeah it's $981,103 converted to Euro


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/14 12:19:49


Post by: MrPieChee


Can I just say, the content of this thread is so incredibly better than the content of the comments on the KS. It's a bun fight of fan boys with seemingly little interest in an actual hobby. It's crazy!

Being in the UK, I grabbed the town pledge with the plan of getting two villages. However, I'm very tempted to just get a single village at this stage. As many of you have said, I really need to go huge to make the buildings work, and with a single village with a core set as the base I can make 2-3 really good looking feature pieces and fill out the rest of the table with cheaper stuff.

I've got an MDF "laser model store" dungeon already - it's not the same quality, but it's better than all the alternatives I've seen.

I also finally had my D&L2 KS turn up this week - dam those stretch goals are big! I only went for dragons and sci-fi in that.

I feel like archon missed a trick by not making a castle core set.

Also, it really bugs me how uneven the value is between pledges and trade options. The sewers looks great, but I think using the core set and making my own floors with an extra pack of clips is a much better idea - you get roughly twice the volume for a little bit of extra work. The trade ins of a core set for two rooms is also annoying - as said before it's closer to 4 rooms not two!

As for core sets as the ground floor for buildings - several of the one tile walls look like they lend themselves to some Dremel action for ground floor windows...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/14 12:28:02


Post by: DaveC


Just on your last point the Fantasy core set tiles have different designs front and back unlike the new stuff which has the same design so where it looks like you could cut a window or door on one side of a fantasy tile the other side does not have the same detail so it won’t look right and will require some work with green stuff or plastic card but that’s only a problem though if you want detailed interiors if you don’t go for it.

I think I’ve given up on the idea of using the D&L 3 roofs the angle is just too shallow and the wall joint is clunky. I’m just going to scratch build roofs it’s cheaper but a lot more work.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/14 12:40:03


Post by: MrPieChee


Well that's annoying! Although green stuffing stone isn't too challenging, especially if I make a mold of the first one. Well, I'll have to wait an see. Even more reason to only get a single village!


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/14 13:24:25


Post by: Orlanth


MrPieChee wrote:
Can I just say, the content of this thread is so incredibly better than the content of the comments on the KS. It's a bun fight of fan boys with seemingly little interest in an actual hobby. It's crazy!


Don't blame the backers blame the formatting of Kickstarter. It is deliberately flat in order to act as a peanut gallery and nothing more. some people try to make intelligent points, they get drowned out most of the time.

MrPieChee wrote:

Being in the UK, I grabbed the town pledge with the plan of getting two villages. However, I'm very tempted to just get a single village at this stage. As many of you have said, I really need to go huge to make the buildings work, and with a single village with a core set as the base I can make 2-3 really good looking feature pieces and fill out the rest of the table with cheaper stuff.


I suggest you reconsider that. If you want the two villages pledge a village now and add a village in pledge manager, IIRC if you buy a town pledge you bought the town pledge, you can add pledges later but what you have bought you have bought, you don't get free to use pledge credit; at last this is what happened in all the previous Archon campaigns, they might have made some adjustments for UK buyers. Archon will refund the difference.


MrPieChee wrote:

I also finally had my D&L2 KS turn up this week - dam those stretch goals are big! I only went for dragons and sci-fi in that.


SF dedicate campaign is scheduled later this year.
The dragons are big too.

MrPieChee wrote:

I feel like archon missed a trick by not making a castle core set.


I agree that they should core-ize some sets. The priority is the Dwarven Mine, it doesnt synergise as well, with exception of mine to dungeon transitions and needs to be big. A core Castle should have additional features from the get go.

MrPieChee wrote:

Also, it really bugs me how uneven the value is between pledges and trade options. The sewers looks great, but I think using the core set and making my own floors with an extra pack of clips is a much better idea - you get roughly twice the volume for a little bit of extra work. The trade ins of a core set for two rooms is also annoying - as said before it's closer to 4 rooms not two!


Sewers are a Core set, you get about as much plastic as the Fantasy Core. It was only to be a room. The main draw here are the floors. Note that you can make a canal out of the sewers, just choose a lighter colour and paint differently, and many remark that the sewer walls make better generic dungeon walls. I see their point.

 DaveC wrote:
.
I think I’ve given up on the idea of using the D&L 3 roofs the angle is just too shallow and the wall joint is clunky. I’m just going to scratch build roofs it’s cheaper but a lot more work.


Do you have any beyond the single tile square hip roof? Its a decent piece but it needs to be thoroughly trimmed to make it more a roof and less a piece of lego.

I use this for custom fantasy roofs:

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Byggnadsmaterial/konstruktionspaneler/Auhagen-52228/se/modell_28487.html



This is Auhagen 52428 (catchy name!) or Auhagen 52228 (two pack of same product) at 100x200mm it is big and can be cut down to fit several roof sections of you are not wasteful. It is set for OO scale but you can ignore that.

Also a shout out for Auhagen 52220 which makes good wooden flooring for large upper storeys. Most other items in the range are no use, they are truescale so most slate roofs look way too neat and trim at 28mm scale, more like a chessboard than a roof.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/14 14:52:44


Post by: lord_blackfang


I doubt we'll see any new Cores going forward, they're priced at 1/2 their "value" in Rooms for a reason, to draw you in and sell you Rooms. The Sewers were a bit of an accident because reviewers suggested more elements and a second sprue was tooled.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 02:35:07


Post by: ced1106


Found in the update some Fantasy Core and Fantasy Room sets with roofs. Yeah, I'm also a little iffy about it.

I do like the Cursed Cathedral as an outside building, including for 40K, although I dunno how tiled roofs would look. Guess I could use the preview roof tile to see, since a cathedral tiled roof would be gray...



Some random uses for the Fantasy Core Set. Display for miniatures, and trays for photographing multiples of multiple miniatures.

(Second edition clips have multi-story clips.)

Spoiler:




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 06:15:36


Post by: Orlanth


 ced1106 wrote:

I do like the Cursed Cathedral as an outside building, including for 40K, although I dunno how tiled roofs would look. Guess I could use the preview roof tile to see, since a cathedral tiled roof would be gray...


40K requires flat roofs for most buildings so you can put ordnance on them, this would be as much an in-canon response as a pro-gamer one. Tiles are heretical waste unless a spire to edify the holy Imperium is wanted.

 ced1106 wrote:

Some random uses for the Fantasy Core Set. Display for miniatures, and trays for photographing multiples of multiple miniatures.


Nice content. It also highlights why the more I invest in terrain the more reasonable it is to invest in these:

https://www.renedra.co.uk/product-category/gaming-bases/round-bases-gaming-bases/
Spoiler:




Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 06:43:55


Post by: MrPieChee


 Orlanth wrote:

MrPieChee wrote:

Being in the UK, I grabbed the town pledge with the plan of getting two villages. However, I'm very tempted to just get a single village at this stage. As many of you have said, I really need to go huge to make the buildings work, and with a single village with a core set as the base I can make 2-3 really good looking feature pieces and fill out the rest of the table with cheaper stuff.


I suggest you reconsider that. If you want the two villages pledge a village now and add a village in pledge manager, IIRC if you buy a town pledge you bought the town pledge, you can add pledges later but what you have bought you have bought, you don't get free to use pledge credit; at last this is what happened in all the previous Archon campaigns, they might have made some adjustments for UK buyers. Archon will refund the difference.

MrPieChee wrote:

Also, it really bugs me how uneven the value is between pledges and trade options. The sewers looks great, but I think using the core set and making my own floors with an extra pack of clips is a much better idea - you get roughly twice the volume for a little bit of extra work. The trade ins of a core set for two rooms is also annoying - as said before it's closer to 4 rooms not two!


Sewers are a Core set, you get about as much plastic as the Fantasy Core. It was only to be a room. The main draw here are the floors. Note that you can make a canal out of the sewers, just choose a lighter colour and paint differently, and many remark that the sewer walls make better generic dungeon walls. I see their point.


I was pretty sure that you got credit to split however you wanted in the pledge manager - I'll check with Archon.

The sewers have half the number of walls as the core set, and two less floor tiles - so a quarter less plastic. I don't think this would bother people with several core sets already, but for someone with none of the fantasy stuff it makes a difference.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 06:45:42


Post by: Dolnikan


Seeing the pictures of the roofs makes me really doubt them. It feels off that they don't even touch the edge of the buildings, although I can't put my finger on it. And that in turn makes me think again about how to go about building a few houses out of the tiles.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 08:08:48


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Mrs. GG and I prefer clear bases for our sci-fi gaming, we really like the versatility. But for some reason they just do not quite work for us the same way with our fantasy gaming. They just look somehow out of place. Of course that means we have little dirt mounds and grass growing around the feet of folks in the tavern and on our boats….

Maybe this KS will convince us to use different textured bases for our fantasy minis but right now we try to use the same temperate woodland base style on all of our fantasy pieces, including things like Goblins that are commonly found underground. We know a lot of folks use themed bases to reflect the character of the mini but we like the overall consistency we have with unifying bases when the pieces all hit the table together.

All that said, Archon will be missing a money maker in my opinion if they do not make sculpted bases available as an add-on now and later an item in their retail store. Once tooled, they should be able to easily compete with the current resin sculpted bases on the market.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dolnikan wrote:
Seeing the pictures of the roofs makes me really doubt them. It feels off that they don't even touch the edge of the buildings, although I can't put my finger on it. And that in turn makes me think again about how to go about building a few houses out of the tiles.


The picture above where it looks like the roof does not touch the edge is misleading because they have not put the roof trim pieces on.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 09:35:42


Post by: DaveC


A few quick updates - funding now at €887k which means Tavern part 3 and the Gravedigger are unlocked. The €880k goal is for bridges that span the sewers. The egg might be a placeholder image for something else. Archon have confirm SG beyond €1 million if/when it gets there. The fountain design has not yet been confirmed.

Regarding a base pack add on

Archon StudioCreator
... we had an internal discussion about it and it's on the list to be added in the PM, as we need to finalize the sculpted bases tooling content.




The Giant add on is €25 - if you want to double up on the 1 per backer stuff a 2nd KS account is probably the way to go.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 11:11:20


Post by: Orlanth


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Mrs. GG and I prefer clear bases for our sci-fi gaming, we really like the versatility. But for some reason they just do not quite work for us the same way with our fantasy gaming. They just look somehow out of place. Of course that means we have little dirt mounds and grass growing around the feet of folks in the tavern and on our boats….

Maybe this KS will convince us to use different textured bases for our fantasy minis but right now we try to use the same temperate woodland base style on all of our fantasy pieces, including things like Goblins that are commonly found underground. We know a lot of folks use themed bases to reflect the character of the mini but we like the overall consistency we have with unifying bases when the pieces all hit the table together.

All that said, Archon will be missing a money maker in my opinion if they do not make sculpted bases available as an add-on now and later an item in their retail store. Once tooled, they should be able to easily compete with the current resin sculpted bases on the market.


I unbase all the mins I can with exception of those that are really involved with their base and a selection of bosses that have favoured terrain. Uniformity is key here, so all grasslands or all dungeon or all sand also works. I thought long and hard about doing a unifying theme but felt in the end that clear plastic suited my needs better. It is hands down the best option if you are using map books.

However having some clear plastic and others not is very jarring, so I save themed bases for an absolute minimum of miniatures. Bosses can get away with it, as can big things like dragons. That being said I am rebasing most of the D&L dragons, Draculus and Marduk being notable exceptions. Though my Marduk is on long term hold until I know how to proceed with it. ALL my SF RPG miniatures are clear based, and if the minis is involved with its base then I simply do not buy.
I find it ok to have a rock or chest under a foot on a clear plastic base but I want nothing less generic than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrPieChee wrote:

The sewers have half the number of walls as the core set, and two less floor tiles - so a quarter less plastic. I don't think this would bother people with several core sets already, but for someone with none of the fantasy stuff it makes a difference.


This is all true but the sewers have double the number of wall sections of a room set, and four times as many floors. I don't think we are hard done by.
But it does highlight that rooms should be kept to accent walls and features if at all possible with the bulk of the purchases in core sets.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 15:19:05


Post by: DaveC


€900k down and the Flesh Golem is added. Skeleton and Goblin packs coming up



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 16:09:41


Post by: lord_blackfang


13 minis and 2 scatter pieces in the last 70k before 1M. Let's just call this Fantasy Collection 3 eh


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 17:34:11


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


An awfull little terrain for a terrain Kickstarter.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 17:58:02


Post by: lord_blackfang


It's hard to complain given the value but I'd rather have more terrain, yea. Failing that, a bit more coherent NPC lineup, there's plenty of... villager professions... still missing and they're making random stuff like not-Black Panther.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 18:04:07


Post by: Orlanth


To be fair to Archon they have done most medieval fantasy home furnishings already from D&L 1 and 2.

We need: a privvy, a washtub, a stove, and a pair of scales. Not much else really.

However we are getting a fair amount of terrain but only shown as smaller pencil drawings for the most part. It isn't highlighted but it is there in volume, more than it looks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
... and we just unlocked the washtubs.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 18:13:20


Post by: lord_blackfang


The terrain that's there is pretty good, but if it stays bundled with 80 NPCs it's not really appealing to spam additional Stretch Goal packs like I did with the previous two campaigns. There's still plenty of furniture missing including a village well.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/15 21:23:11


Post by: Orlanth


I cant agree with that, many of the terrain pieces are not reasonably spammable:
Picture with hands coming out of it.
Picture with a snake coming out of it.
Woman sitting on a screaming skeleton under her cushion.
Tres stump with embedded skeleton.

There are other less ridiculous designs that you still only need one or maybe two of. How many racks would you need?

Same applies to minis, some are conversion fuel, others may be less useful in that regard.

The way I see it, some items you cant get enough of, and most of those are basic furniture like beds tables and chairs. Others you only need one of. The answer is - gifts.

Give the excess away, unlock your inner not greedy person, spread it around. If you have several fully stocked torture chambers give some away to gamers in your community and let everyone be a sadist.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/16 01:53:07


Post by: ced1106


You will be able to buy more bases in the PM!

Martin BiggsSuperbacker
about 3 hours ago

I've talked to both Derek and Archon, about this. As they don't yet know how many bases are going to be on the sprue(s), the can't give a price yet. But they will be available in the Pledge Manager as an Add-on.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/16 16:36:41


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


It certainly makes much more sense to do sprue(s) of bases only, as that lets them sell them separately too (and there's certainly a market for decent ones)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/16 16:42:35


Post by: lord_blackfang


Anyone want to help convince Archon to put a Sewer walls sprue as an Addon? There's no way to use all 40 floors with just 32 walls unless you go almost plain rectangle.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/16 17:32:40


Post by: Orlanth


I could go for that, or just ask for the sewer core to have one extra sprue. You can argue it will keep pace for product volume with the other core sets.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/16 17:49:26


Post by: lord_blackfang


I could, and there's significantly less content in Sewers than in Fantasy Core, but I probably have better odds asking to pay for it than asking for free

I do get dogpiled by people saying Archon was already asked for individual sprues in previous campaigns and refused. It might not be a floodgate they want to open. Then again, if it makes financial sense for them to tool 5 different sprues of door Add-ons that all have to be individually picked for shipping, it has to make sense to to the same for terrain sprues that already exist.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/17 08:49:12


Post by: Orlanth


It makes most sense to ask for the extra wall sprue.

Can you make video?

If so sim it. Count out the exact number on composition from core fantasy sprues, and get the same composition in walls and doorways to make up one core set.
Make up two or three variants of every tile used, it might help to add a sticker or use a room tile to represent those that are full water tiles. Show to everyone that there are not enough tiles to go around, show what a different it would make if there was an extra sprue, clearly labelled with stickers. Then disassemble the whole lot and stick them next to a full fantasy core set with and without the extra sprue to show Archon are not cheating themselves by adding it.
Stick the whole lot on YouTube and link it all over the kickstarter and here.

It wont take long if you have two core sets one room set and a webcam. Sadly I dont have the webcam.

Anyone?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/17 15:27:39


Post by: lord_blackfang


I don't have any D&L panels yet, besides the few doors and walls in the stretch goals...


Goals beyond 1 million are being added now.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/17 15:49:55


Post by: DaveC


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't have any D&L panels yet, besides the few doors and walls in the stretch goals...


Goals beyond 1 million are being added now.


That’s a nice addition to the market place and bigger pieces too. I think they’ll unleash the big stuff for the last 48 hours, still haven’t seen the walls and fences yet. I hope the dragon stays on 4 legs but they might repose him to fit on a 50mm base like the others.

Air Elemental looks good.

EDIT: and classic fountain won the vote.

[Thumb - AF07E3E4-EDE9-4829-9771-317AB84CF7B1.jpeg]
[Thumb - A839A1F2-E5D5-4F32-95D0-11D0622010EF.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/17 20:20:18


Post by: Orlanth


That actually looks like an air elemental, so not a total loss.

I had hopes for Mantic on the elemental front but the water elementals dont look good and the fire elemental looks anything but. Thankfully Nolzur's elementals are good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghost dragon formally unlocked now, and the stretchgoals include a privvy. It is like they are listening.

Also included are artillery pieces which is the sort of content you want many stretchgoal sets for, and add ons for making shed roofs or extensions to make roofed buildings wider than 2 tiles.
Omn that note this particular add on should be part of the Roof set and not a srtretchgoal, you will want more than one or two token roof sections, this is the sort of items you will want quite a lot of.

Collapsed walls leading to hidden dungeon areas, yes please.
More corner junk, yes please.
Yet another portal, ok, if you insist. Dont we have three, or is it four already?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 02:47:39


Post by: ced1106


Adrift on the Reaper forums had a practical use for the roof sets:

I initially disregarded the rooftops, but then realized they would be supremely useful for even using with my map books from my Towns & Taverns Loke Battlemats. I can literally drop roofs on 2d buildings and then my players don’t automatically know the inside of a building looks like; less meta. Plus, if a battle heads to the roof...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 05:31:41


Post by: Orlanth


I have those, good call.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 17:51:24


Post by: Hanskrampf


Last 28 hours and I'm kinda lost... which of the new addons are NOT included as free stretchgoals?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 18:01:49


Post by: DaveC


 Hanskrampf wrote:
Last 28 hours and I'm kinda lost... which of the new addons are NOT included as free stretchgoals?


New Add ons that are not included as stretch goals
Wood and Stone Stairs
Woodhaven Doors
Street Lamps
Balustrades
Battlements
Trim pack (roof room includes a trim pack)
Door Frames (new sprue for the functional doors) (includes 4 single square roof pieces.)

Add on that's included for first 48hours backers only
Nubble

Add ons that are stretch goals but are limit to 1 per backer as a SG regardless of number of pledges bought (also not included in the €25 SG 3 add on pack)
Giant
Troll
Ghost Dragon
Market Stall


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 18:08:47


Post by: Hanskrampf


 DaveC wrote:
 Hanskrampf wrote:
Last 28 hours and I'm kinda lost... which of the new addons are NOT included as free stretchgoals?


New Add ons that are not included as stretch goals
Wood and Stone Stairs
Woodhaven Doors
Street Lamps
Balustrades
Battlements
Trim pack (roof room includes a trim pack)
Door Frames (new sprue for the functional doors) (includes 4 single square roof pieces.)

Add ons that are also stretch goals
Market Stall

Add on that's included for first 48hours backers only
Nubble

Add ons that are stretch goals but are limit to 1 per backer as a SG regardless of number of pledges bought (also not included in the €25 SG 3 add on pack)
Giant
Troll
Ghost Dragon


Thank you so much!
But just to clarify: Market Stall, Giant, Troll and the new Dragon are still part of the free stretchgoals?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 18:12:05


Post by: DaveC


 Hanskrampf wrote:

Thank you so much!
But just to clarify: Market Stall, Giant, Troll and the new Dragon are still part of the free stretchgoals?


Yes you get 1 "free" Market stall per pledge level so 2 village = 2 stalls 3 village = 3 stalls etc. You can buy more for €5 each
You get 1 Troll, 1 Giant and 1 Ghost dragon only "free" regardless of number of pledges taken. You can buy more for the listed price or create a 2nd backer account if want doubles of all 3 as they are €67 as add ons but another village on a 2nd backer account is €85, €18 extra gets a lot more stuff.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 19:15:41


Post by: DaveC


Speaking of what an €85 village pledge gets;

1 Townsfolk starter set - 63 minis
5 Rooms or 1 Core (Sewer or Fantasy) and 3 Rooms
1 Stretch Goals pack - 85 minis, 84 pieces of Terrain
including
1 x 4.7" Giant
1 x 3.3" Troll
1 x 6" Ghost Dragon
Fire, Air, Water Elementals
Iron and Flesh Golem
A Market place with 1 fixed stall, 1 cart stall, 1 cart and various scatter
Town scatter, benches, signposts, chimneys, outdoor privy and a fountain
A Tavern with sideboards, bed, bearskin rug, bath and a fireplace
A Blacksmith set with a forge, weapons, weapon chest and tools
A Bank set with a vault door, safe, coin bags and coin pile
Barracks set with Mortar, Ballista, flags, target and training dummy.
6 Gnolls
6 Kobolds
6 Skeletons
6 Goblins



Still to come


[Thumb - 188137227_10158853755888141_4301580649292860119_n.jpg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 19:57:25


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


All of this makes me really eager, like REALLY eager, to see what they do when they finally get their wargame all set.

I imagine that campaign will really be off the rails. This one basically was, considering we started with a town theme and ended up populating the town instead of building one.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/18 21:19:22


Post by: Orlanth


As projects enter the last 24 hours they get special promotion at Kickstarter if they are already trending well. This may or may not make a difference.

There was a high chance that most of those who are interested in this campaign already knew about it. However in the last two hours this project had had a huge spurt of new backers, and jumped from a short crawl over a million to a 100K added in the two hours along with about 400 fresh backers.

This campaign was projected for 1.2M, we are 50K off that now and the last 24 hours are only beginning, it might reach 1.5M with the added attention.
I wonder what Archon will offer us for that milestone. Another dragon? A different big monster perhaps?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 08:08:03


Post by: lord_blackfang


I am still of the opinion that there will be a transparent red phoenix.

But I'd be happy with just rounding off some tile functionality, like the double wide gate some have been clamouring for. I myself would choose a theme-neutral floor tile to increase the build options of a single Room.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 08:23:20


Post by: DaveC


The Portcullis was a running theme (and joke as they couldn’t pronounce it) in the run up so some form of gate way seems likely.

If anyone is wondering about the ducks in the streams they were taking about the docks but their Polish accents made it sound like ducks to much confusion so in the end they added ducks but not docks as they didn’t work out.

Earth Elemental at €1,220k round out the set. Current total €1,196k


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 08:29:03


Post by: lord_blackfang


Well the 3 people who really latched on to the duck barbarian have managed to shout loud enough to get him added to SG despite the regular duck having won the poll. Shame we didn't whine hard enough about the more interesting market stall or fountain.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 08:48:24


Post by: DaveC


And another duck with his pet peasant. Good to see a well. Sewer Mermaid? I guess?? it’s different at least. And these still aren’t the end.


[Thumb - DC36B21C-0702-46DE-B9FF-2007C6F4794C.jpeg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 09:48:32


Post by: Orlanth


Hatches are worthwhile addition, the well and the peasant. Though why you want a lot of peasants porting ducks is beyond me. Thankfully he can be converted with Fireforge peasant bits, it will be good to have another peasant body base to add to the mix. So that is a win for those who think beyond the stretchgoals alone.

Duck? OK if you play Runequest, and ducks are Orlanthi so I must welcome him!
Trouble is even I a hardcore miniatures fan and a hardcore Glorantha fan have never mixed the two, there just isn't enough scope of quality sculpts to do Gloranthan gaming with miniatures justice.

The earth elemental is another fail, which is a pity because I don't like the Nolzur's one either. IMHO earth elementals should not have beaks (Nolzur's) or carry tools (here).

Sewer mermaid, now I have to give credit where credit is due. This is a topical blend of a generic monster with a something special that actually works. I could find use for one, and if the pose is not too busy convert enough to field two. I don't like replicating miniatures with busy poses.

I will have to find out what Witless Wizard means later. So far the mages in this set have been all usable, though the Necromancer needs a closer look.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 10:23:38


Post by: lord_blackfang


Witless Wizard is a D&D 5 adventure module, all the little colour thumbnails are.

I'm glad to finally see some more SG that enhance terrain functionality, like hatches, sewer ladders and the sludge pipe wall plug.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 10:50:49


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I think the elemental will paint up well as an ice elemental with the club removed (hopefully the parting out on the sprue will make that simple)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 12:11:35


Post by: Orlanth


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I think the elemental will paint up well as an ice elemental with the club removed (hopefully the parting out on the sprue will make that simple)


Bravo! Good catch. Hopefully the multipart kit will allow us to be rid of the club without harming the shoulder.
Looking forward to my ice elemental now. Thank you.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 13:41:31


Post by: DaveC


The egg is Phoenix egg - €1,400k is a Phoenix



Note on the market stall it’s now 1 per backer not pledge so you need to buy more if you want more.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 13:42:12


Post by: Orlanth


I voted for a naked Phoenix, prefer Furious.



Looks like Infernal might win. Not happy about that, a waste of a potentially excellent kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DaveC wrote:

Note on the market stall it’s now 1 per backer not pledge so you need to buy more if you want more.


I will need to know more before deciding if that is worth 5 Euro. There is plenty of junk in this campaign I would not be disturbed to have capped at one. Market stalls are not one of them.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:00:12


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


So the final big update… swing… and a miss! In my opinion anyway. I was hoping for something a bit more…. Town building focused. The market stall is now one per backer? And the add on market stall is the same as the stretchgoal one? They did not add the magic stall as the add on? Disappointing. The stretchgoals in D&L2 convinced us to do two pledges but this time just one for us.

Derek the volunteer in the comments has been incredibly motivating but his activity highlights the lack of involvement from others. Maybe they are busy on other platforms like discord and Facebook? Considering all the enthusiasm shown before the campaign from my perspective it is feeling a bit anti-climatic to me.

The big jump from the barbarian to the Phoenix feels out of step with their other stretchgoal intervals.

I also would like the “furious” Phoenix to win but to be honest I think my feeling of anticlimactic disappointment has spoiled any real enthusiasm I have for whatever design wins.

There are some brilliant minis on offer in this KS but I can not help but feel like a great opportunity for something more has been missed.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:08:22


Post by: DaveC


I could care less about Phoenix a big goal like that should have been a big terrain piece. Once the well is unlocked I’ll be happy with that.

Poor form restricting the market stall to 1 per backer in the final 8 hours it’s a €5 add on and will be a lot smaller than other 1 per backer minis.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:22:53


Post by: Orlanth


Spoiler:


The barbarian at the bottom is a promising add on.


And we just unlocked the well. So DaveC should be happier.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:47:03


Post by: Gallahad


In your guy's opinions would the stone tower room blend well with fantasy core?

I'd like to use fantasy core plus the stone tower room as the base of buildings but I'm worried they won't look good together. I'm just trying to figure out how to use the fantasy core basically since it is such a good value.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:47:13


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


All in all, i'm pretty dissapointed with this Kickstarter, which turned into a generic fantasy Kickstarter instead of providing terrain as promised.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:55:18


Post by: DaveC


 Gallahad wrote:
In your guy's opinions would the stone tower room blend well with fantasy core?

I'd like to use fantasy core plus the stone tower room as the base of buildings but I'm worried they won't look good together. I'm just trying to figure out how to use the fantasy core basically since it is such a good value.


Here you go. Fantasy Core short walls, Stone Tower (sample), Fantasy Core long walls.


[Thumb - STFC.jpg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 14:57:20


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


 Gallahad wrote:
In your guy's opinions would the stone tower room blend well with fantasy core?

I'd like to use fantasy core plus the stone tower room as the base of buildings but I'm worried they won't look good together. I'm just trying to figure out how to use the fantasy core basically since it is such a good value.


The Fantasy Core has nice, generic field stone floors that work well for a lot of settings. Better than the stone tower room floors in my opinion. However, the Fantasy Core walls have blocked up doors and windows that look odd in many settings other than as a ruins, dungeon or sewer.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 15:03:46


Post by: Orlanth


 Gallahad wrote:
In your guy's opinions would the stone tower room blend well with fantasy core?


Yes.

 Gallahad wrote:

I'd like to use fantasy core plus the stone tower room as the base of buildings but I'm worried they won't look good together. I'm just trying to figure out how to use the fantasy core basically since it is such a good value.


Woodhaven to dungeons.
If you want to use Woodhaven rooms as dungeon walls all the sets work well, except Tudor Mansion, which is too well polished for a dungeon. You can test this yourself if you backed D&L 2 as there are stone wall samples in the stretchgoals from Woodhaven.
Can someone with a webcam demonstrate for us please. Edit - While typing this up someone has indeed done this on a small scale, thanks to DaveC.

Dungeons to Woodhaven
Core sets as buildings don't work quite as well. It can work but only for certain types of buildings. An orc fortress made of Dungeon Core (that sounds funky in itself) would probably make for a good scenario. I haven't tried it but can envision it with all the new vertical clips I have got.

If value is your main concern then I will repeat what was said a few pages back. For dungeons D&L is excellent, for settlements less so. There are plenty of alternative products that will work better and for less, and I can give you pointers at multiple budget levels and with or without 3D printing. Others can likely chime in too. I cant be the only one who does settlement planning for games, were this so this thread would be empty.
And yes, without deliberately throwing a bone to Archon a lot of their stuff makes the list.

The good news is that you don't need to work out what is in your pledge and wont for months. You could pledge one village and leave everything for the pledge manager. You have time.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 15:18:38


Post by: Gallahad


Great! Thank you all for the amazing response.

I hope to use the stone tower to add windows to the fantasy core to make them a little better suited to be the bottom of buildings.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 15:29:55


Post by: lord_blackfang


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
All in all, i'm pretty dissapointed with this Kickstarter, which turned into a generic fantasy Kickstarter instead of providing terrain as promised.


Same. From engaging on Archon's discord it's clear once again short sighted selfishness wins, people whining and moaning until they get their way, demanding miniatures already easily available cheap today but they'd rather have them in the free stretch goal pack taking up the space of terrain upgrades that nobody else will make, and jesus the stink they threw up to get the meme barbarian duck because they neeeeeed it for their campaign as if that's still going to be running when the KS delivers.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 15:54:47


Post by: KipCujo


Who is going in for doors and wants to swap their bonus roofs to me for something else?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 16:58:54


Post by: DaveC


The Market stall has been sculpted looks to be 4 panels - back wall is probably a half panel (half a sprue worth).






Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 17:23:07


Post by: Gallahad


Ok, you madlads convinced me to put in a dollar on the family account in case I decide to do double villages...


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 18:07:58


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


Kind of dumb a figure can't actually fit in the market stall lol.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 18:23:02


Post by: Orlanth


 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
All in all, i'm pretty dissapointed with this Kickstarter, which turned into a generic fantasy Kickstarter instead of providing terrain as promised.


Same. From engaging on Archon's discord it's clear once again short sighted selfishness wins, people whining and moaning until they get their way, demanding miniatures already easily available cheap today but they'd rather have them in the free stretch goal pack taking up the space of terrain upgrades that nobody else will make, and jesus the stink they threw up to get the meme barbarian duck because they neeeeeed it for their campaign as if that's still going to be running when the KS delivers.


I met that duck, he was in a dungeon in a White Dwarf in the early 80s. He was late turning up in miniature, and I hadnt ever seen the character, or anything like him since c1982. AKA a waste. But people neeeeeed him I suppose.

In Archon's defence the phoenix is a good idea, so long as it comes in plain or red translucent plastic and doesn't have armour on it. A generic phoenix miniature is something they can actually sell. You know, like in shops, if that's a thing. Had we a nice terrain feature of similar volume like a clock tower, it would be nice but potentially has less customer appeal.

I cant blame Archon for playing to the crowd so long as its the right crowd. Ignore kiddies wanting tat that they cant sell and make decent multipart monster and character kits, and terrain too. I blame the management, they are doing OK but could be doing far far better.
- Make retail kits for sale
- Make a boardgame with awesome miniatures
- Make stretchgoal equivalent boxsets of generic or even specific scatter and furnishings for SF and fantasy.
- Retail the dragons.

Take a look at what other companies with a better business model are making a mint on. They have the tools, they have the skills but are still making junk items and mixing things in weird stretchgoal boxes that don't make sense.

After D&L 3 they should start over. Retool the molds or all their stretchgoals into useful sets that they can retail sell.
They can keep the animals, it was a relative waste but some liked them and they are at least self contained. Fans can buy them. But a stretchgoal, stupid idea. Yes Dungeons and Doggies sold and had appeal but it had a specific appeal, D&L was a generic project, they had to waste money giving away their familiars when they could have made them into an add on and sold it, at a reduced price in their campaigns.

[ tough love ]
Archon if you are reading this at some point. Make a tavern boxset, make a barracks boxset, make throne room and torture chamber boxset. Add all the relevant items even some appropriate miniatures into each set and retail them. THEY WOULD SELL.
You can still make stretchgoals, just have a box set of minis to hand out and add a new mini every 20k and add a new themed boxset every 200k. So as the funding grows we slowly unlock random adventurers, monsters and NPC miniatures, then suddenly when we hit the milestone, Bam! we get a tavern with a bar, four tables, three benches, ten stools, a barkeep, a barmaid, a bouncer and four drunks. The backers go wild. Some table scatter like tankards or plates, a fireplace with spitroast hog and a chandelier to swing on 50K later; and the crowd goes wilder. You know you will reach that milestone so can plan ahead. Then after all of use get this part of the stretchgoals it is a ready to market boxset you can sell to any FLGS and e-store that wants them, and many will. 200k later we do the same for the torture chamber, or the barracks....

Play smarter guys. Let us see if you can unscrew up D&L 4 with the science fiction. Think about the terrain sets you can provide as stretchgoals transitioning into retail boxsets. Yes you got over a million euro, well done, seriously. But you have advanced pantographics and mold making technology, you can do better, you can do more. The hardware you have invested a whole lot of money in is not being used efficiently. You should be smarter, you should be wiser, you should be richer. If Mantic or Reaper had your hardware advantage they would be rolling in dosh. Reaper makes twice what you make on a campaign, and that is with cheap plastic resin.
[ /tough love ]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 18:29:24


Post by: DaveC


I think it's going to reach €1,400K after all now at €1,324K it jumped €15K in the half hour I was having dinner.

Finale livestream starts in 33 minutes on Facebook last chance to badger them for something or other


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 18:32:16


Post by: Orlanth


So there was nothing between the barbarienne at 1.22M and the Phoenix at 1.4M?

Are the stretchgoal box spaces all full? If so why did you add so much fething junk!?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 18:37:27


Post by: Grumpy Gnome


Yet again Orlanth I quite agree with you. I just hope Archon sees your post and listens. It is spot on.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:12:25


Post by: Orlanth


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Yet again Orlanth I quite agree with you. I just hope Archon sees your post and listens. It is spot on.


Thanks I will will use this to springboard into a new comment.

[ more tough love]
Archon, those dragons that you found were a problem for D&L2, yes they were generous stretchgoals to add on. I thank you for that, I really do. I liked them so much I came back for more. A free dragon with each pledge was generous and not a wasteful idea, seriously that wasn't a problem. Many people factored in those dragons and bought more dungeon as a result.
The problem is that you are not putting the dragons in the shops where they belong.
You are thinking of them as a loss and divorcing them from stretchgoals while you should be celebrating the absolute mint you would get if they were flying from the virtual shelves on Amazon.
Yes its early days, you have only just made them, but dont be cutting back from your backers now. Don't consider them a loss, consider the massive jumbled stretchgoal boxes the loss. Consider them a sunk cost you can now turn into long term profit.

As for having factory staff cut out Fantasy components from SF sprues to sell Fantasy stretchgoal sets. Don't do that. Instead recognise that you screwed the pooch on composition and just sell them as they were for slightly more until you can retool into more sensible boxsets that you can retail.

When you do SF later this year, add new core sets, recognise some things dont work as rooms. Corporate offices and starship upper decks should be large and sweeping. If you make it it will sell. You can still have rooms for med bays, bunkers etc but dont be afraid to change the format, don't make them just reskins of the same box. Add doors to the sprues from the outset, plan ahead, make it make sense.
Plan your features carefully so you can make stretchgoal boxsets you can retail later.
Consider your scatter and furnishings to fit your room sets so that while they appear to be random scatter in the campaign they become furnishing sprues later. Consider retailing the rooms with a sprue of relevanrt scatter in them. Then you can sell them for 30 Euro rather than 20 and poeple will buy,

Imagine this: A Med bay 'room' boxset with three sprues of med bay walls and floors, no clips on those sprues some there is room for the door and hinges, it comes with two clip sprues as normal but an extra sprue with lab equipment, hospital/exprimental beds, stand alone consoles and no tat. Have items in useful numbers so one console and lab station, one autodoc capsule but three or four beds. Make your room a one stop shop for this feature in SF gaming whether on a Cyberpunk world or on a spaceship or an underground bunker cooking up a not-T Virus.

Imagine this: A factory 'core' set similar the Med Bay set with industrial machinery and a conveyor belt system. Similar to the above in retail concept but with a twist. Special add on tile rims that marry up the factory set with your Rampart Cobalt Factory. So the room walls become internal partition walls and the room floors have enough area to match the amount of stuff you get with Cobalt.

Imagine this: You can still include the fun items that keep the backers happy, like a space goblin, cute animal, baby xenomorph or other weird stuff. It can all be on one or two sprues that are separated from the theme sprues but included when you buy all the scatter in a stretchgoal box. This way we get the same as previous campaigns but it is all set up for a quick shuffle and continuous sale in relevant themed kits.

We are anxious to see what you can make. You are making things nobody else is, or at least nobody else is making in plastic and affordable by volume, but you are unfocused and are missing opportunities. Opportunities you have serious backers wanting to put down serious pledges for and can transition effortlessly into continuous retail afterwards and hassle free add ons for future campaigns.

I hope someone at Archon gets to read this, and if you do I hope it gets translated into Polish and passed up to management.
[ /more tough love ]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:18:07


Post by: No One Important


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
 Gallahad wrote:
In your guy's opinions would the stone tower room blend well with fantasy core?

I'd like to use fantasy core plus the stone tower room as the base of buildings but I'm worried they won't look good together. I'm just trying to figure out how to use the fantasy core basically since it is such a good value.


The Fantasy Core has nice, generic field stone floors that work well for a lot of settings. Better than the stone tower room floors in my opinion. However, the Fantasy Core walls have blocked up doors and windows that look odd in many settings other than as a ruins, dungeon or sewer.

Altdorf after Karl Franz put the window tax into effect?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:19:20


Post by: lord_blackfang


I envisioned the same thing, coherent, full room sets with furniture and maybe even NPCs.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:34:43


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Live stream ongoing,

Market stall is basically half a sprue (4 'tile' sections) which is why it's one per backer

(they say they forgot to put the info on it when they first announced it)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:46:04


Post by: DaveC


No Canada friendly shipping

"We continue to work on the issue of Canada friendly shipping but with the high cost of containers and the ongoing backlog in sourcing them, it is not possible to provide Canada friendly shipping at this time. We'll continue to work on this in the background over the next few months and we're hopeful that these costs will reduce as the world gets back to "normal". Canada friendly shipping will not apply to anything ordered with Rapid Delivery chosen for it. We will update again on this before the pm closes."


The €931K egg is a physical egg mini

Fountain is intended to take up a 2 square by 2 square footprint.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:47:42


Post by: Orlanth


They are saying that unlike Oriental dragon if they don't get 1.4M, no Phoenix.

We will see, I think we will make that total the amount this project is getting. I watched the pledge and someone an hour ago added a new pledge, incrementing the backer total and the money total went up 6K. There are far bigger whales than me.

There are no add ones planned other than a Phoenix. 40K to go, we should get that, and if we are slightly short they will likely reconsider and add it anyway. They would be fools not to, it would disappoint backers and a lot of people will want more than one.

Something else I noted, a lot of the last minute backers are not looking through the pledge options properly and going straight for City or Kingdom pledge levels rather than single or multi-Village. Shrug.



Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:49:59


Post by: DaveC


Artwork for the Liche survey mini

[Thumb - IMG-0653.jpg]


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:52:18


Post by: Orlanth


Is there a timestamp on the survey. That liche shows promise and I dont want to miss out.

In fact I would likely want to buy a second as an add on if the price is right.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 19:54:39


Post by: DaveC


 Orlanth wrote:
Is there a timestamp on the survey. That liche shows promise and I dont want to miss out.

In fact I would likely want to buy a second as an add on if the price is right.


They'll send it out to backers after the KS ends. So long as you complete it using the same email address as your KS account it will be added to your rewards. It's 1 per backer and they haven't offered an option to purchase survey minis before. (another reason to have 2 backer accounts)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 20:06:21


Post by: Orlanth


Something mentioned in passing was the theme for D&L4. They were talking about 'swamps related' and 'nature related' and it was 'too early to see'.

My above comments still stand if SF comes later, or not at all. In which case may I suggest appropriate druidic gribblies with D&L 4 hedgerow 'room' sets and appropriate aquatic terrors in the same sprue to be linked with swamp floor tile sets, or whatever else you are doing.

Maybe D&L4 is in fact Rampart 2 and uses a different system. It would make more sense to do biomes differently than tilesets.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 20:27:58


Post by: lord_blackfang


Food for thought

The D&L2 survey mini was IIRC He-Derek and he ended up being on the stretch goal sprues so everybody got one per SG pack

The Rampart 2 survey mini was a servo skull that they completely forgot to tool and nobody got it


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 20:35:53


Post by: Orlanth


I got curious with your comments earlier and went over to Discord and watched the frenzy.

It is quite disturbing to see people make crazy pledges in order to unlock the phoenix. I don't think all can afford what they are doing.

There is enthusiasm and atmosphere there but it is sad in a way.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


The D&L2 survey mini was IIRC He-Derek and he ended up being on the stretch goal sprues so everybody got one per SG pack


I didn't pay much attention to that, it was a gimic miniature and when the stretchgoals came he became a forgotten add on. the giant riding Derek will be bisected, its a reasonable seated miniature, I wont waste at least that half of him.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 20:41:52


Post by: DaveC


The stream was a bit like that as well encouraging people to add more more more buy 10 Giants OK it was bit tongue in cheek but some people will over stretch themselves in the hype. Remember pledge responsibly and never more than you are willing to lose should worse come to worse (Archon have delivered multiple KS but there's always that risk with KS)


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 20:54:16


Post by: Dolnikan


To be honest, I always find the final bit of a Kickstarter a little scary because of the almost cultish behaviour you see from some people.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/19 21:06:05


Post by: Orlanth


Phoenix unlocked with one hour to go.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dolnikan wrote:
To be honest, I always find the final bit of a Kickstarter a little scary because of the almost cultish behaviour you see from some people.


I put my wallet away and joined the party.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furious is just edging out Infernal from recent counts. This is still being voted on.

If you havent voted yet, or havent for a while at least can you do my a favour and make sure the phoenix which is not wearing armour wins.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nice event on Discord:

mijoy84 — Today at 22:21 (about ten minutes after it happened)
It's unlocked!

Qamzyah — Today at 22:21
I can see you are using Internet Explorer lol


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/20 00:13:18


Post by: Vain


 Orlanth wrote:

Furious is just edging out Infernal from recent counts. This is still being voted on.


Definitely hoping for this, popped my vote in early but it looked pretty 'Infernal' at that point.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/20 02:24:05


Post by: drakerocket


Darn, just missed it. Does anyone know if there is a late pledge option?


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/20 07:20:16


Post by: DaveC


drakerocket wrote:
Darn, just missed it. Does anyone know if there is a late pledge option?


There will be a late pledge option when the PM opens in a few weeks.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/20 07:59:17


Post by: Orlanth


I missed D&L1 and first heard about D&L2 from the Rampart campaign, which was the first I backed.

I entirely late backed D&L1 in the run up to D&L2 and was able to put in two orders in that time, the second on receiving the first and a few days before D&L2.
I put in a second order for Rampart at the same time, and I put in a second order for D&L2 three days before this campaign began on receiving my rewards. This last batch is late but with D&L3 in full swing I let that slide for now. It will come.

I have had zero problems getting my stuff and late backing. There were no extra fees, no loss of stretchgoals and one per backer items apply to EACH DELIVERY. Though this may or may not be true for my second order of D&L2, I will report here if I get a second Jerry.

So two things to note.

1. Zero worries, you only miss out on free Nubble, but you missed out on that if you didn't early back, so most others have too. Its a decent Nurgle spawn but if you like him you can buy him.

2. For every project so far I bought more stuff on receiving my first order, so double ordered on receipt. This is how happy I was when I got my goods and was able to review them myself close at hand. You can take that as my endorsement.
Once it was literally a double order as the packers repicked my first order and stacked it with the second. Archon were gracious enough to let me keep the mispicked items, but asked me to share them. I did that. Thank you Archon.


Archon Studios News and Rumours - D&L 6 Caves Gamefound live ends Wednesday 27th March @ 2021/05/20 12:45:12


Post by: MrPieChee


I'm not bothered at all about rapid delivery, so I think as soon as my village shows up I'll get another one as a late backer to get all the extra 1 per backer models. I guess I'll need to use a different email address, but that's not an issue.