With BR Morathi and Teclis both released, I figured we could do with a thread to discuss the events so far. Because unlike Psychic Awakening, serious stuff is kicking in the mortal realms.
I’ll use spoiler tags to start with, as I dunno how up on Morathi others are, and to be honest it’s just polite. Ready?
Spoiler:
Well now. At long last the Elf pantheon is kick arse and taking names.
Morathi has successfully ascended to Godhood, though through some unpleasant means. And she’s more or less kick started a new Naggaroth. The book itself is excellent, and really set the stage. Morathi being Morathi, and after the disappointment of Paycheck Awakening, I had been expecting some “next time, Gadget! Next time!” type close failure. But....nope. She took her shot, and it worked.
I also found it amusing just how easily she manipulated Sigmar.
Teclis is no disappointment either. And there’s a lot to unpack here. First and foremost, we see that he’s still a massively conceited being, and doesn’t think too highly of Sigmar. And it’s heavily implied that his actions don’t care about the cost of victory.
It was pleasing to see Alarielle get some airtime too, as she warns her brother God of his hubris. Sure, he’s shattered Nagash and sent him back to his underworld (which is pretty major when you think about it). But there are also clearly consequences to come. Alarielle knows it, Teclis knows it, but for us it’s a treat for the future.
And....where is Tyrion? Why hasn’t he been backing up his bro? The trail starts here. Certainly, seems he’s off dealing with something or someone deadlier than Nagash.... Again that is clearly stated, but the who remains a mystery.
So yeah, two for two so far in my opinion. Roll on Belakor and Kragnos, I guess! Because I would like to know more!
The joy of Age of Sigmar is that the lore has not been shackled down like it has in 40k. I am actually looking forward to each book(and perhaps new edition) just to see what happens next in the story development.
Does feel like Death is about to be divvied up into separate factions. Mistrust also growing in Order with Morathi and her scheming.
I’m about 1/4th the way through reading it, but I did listen to 2+ Tough’s review and his thoughts on it. I was initially wary of this book because of the early rumors, but I digged it as much as BR: Morathi.
Sidenote: I downloaded the digital book through I-tunes and the front cover is Broken Realms : Bel’akor, thought someone fethed up and I was about to get a sneak peek!
My favorite part, so far:
Spoiler:
When some Nighthaunt Knights take flight and charge Teclis. As soon as they get close to him, he notices them coming and smirks. Then he hits them with purifying magic, breaking Nagash’s curse on them as well as restoring them to life. And now that they are no longer incorporeal ghosts, they plummet to their death.
Speculation:
Spoiler:
-My boy Arkhan isn’t really gone for good is he? I’m sure he’ll be back, but damn that was a blow. Probably be back in a fresh coat of the Null Myriad paint scheme to tie him to his subfaction of OBR.
-Who/what is Tyrion fighting thats a greater threat than Nagash? Archaon? Does the Broken Realms saga run concurrently to Wrath of the Everchosen, where Archaon is assaulting Slaanesh’s prison?
-Who is the traitor in Teclis’s ranks? The Changeling?
nels1031 wrote: I’m about 1/4th the way through reading it, but I did listen to 2+ Tough’s review and his thoughts on it. I was initially wary of this book because of the early rumors, but I digged it as much as BR: Morathi.
Sidenote: I downloaded the digital book through I-tunes and the front cover is Broken Realms : Bel’akor, thought someone fethed up and I was about to get a sneak peek!
My favorite part, so far:
Spoiler:
When some Nighthaunt Knights take flight and charge Teclis. As soon as they get close to him, he notices them coming and smirks. Then he hits them with purifying magic, breaking Nagash’s curse on them as well as restoring them in this bookto life. And now that they are no longer incorporeal ghosts, they plummet to their death.
Speculation:
Spoiler:
-My boy Arkhan isn’t really gone for good is he? I’m sure he’ll be back, but damn that was a blow. Probably be back in a fresh coat of the Null Myriad paint scheme to tie him to his subfaction of OBR.
-Who/what is Tyrion fighting thats a greater threat than Nagash? Archaon? Does the Broken Realms saga run concurrently to Wrath of the Everchosen, where Archaon is assaulting Slaanesh’s prison?
-Who is the traitor in Teclis’s ranks? The Changeling?
Spoiler:
Maybe whatever Slaanesh spawned at the end of BR: Morathi. Greater threat due to the Slaanesh/Elf angle not merely power level?
ngl, I'd written off Broken Realms as well, as Psychic Awakening 2: AoS boogaloo, but the lore of AoS is actually... MALLEABLE. Which is amazing. Characters can change, die, be brought back. Whole factions change. The whole world can change.
Gunna have to go back and actually get these books...
If any being can survive what happened to Arkhan, it’s Arkhan! Biggest boon of course being he’s already dead. Though if the void is, erm, devoid of magic that cpu;d be a massive pain in the arse.
Taking more stock, we are seeing a significant shift in the power players.
Nagash and Arkhan are gone. And we know Neferata and Mannfred as still politicking and invading each other’s domains. With Nagash out for the count, and without Arkhan to speed his return it seem the cohesion of Death is gone.
I’m also interested in what it means to have cancelled the Necroquake out.
On the Chaos side, Slaanesh’s spawn is something new, and we know Belakor is next up - and the model has a ded Chaos Warrior as decoration. Historically, Belakor has been a detriment to the Gods because they can’t really control him. So one suspects he’ll be a big old spanner, and indeed a big old spanner in Archaon’s plans.
I suspect Death is going to go a bit quiet for now in terms of background contribution. They’ll still be a threat, but not an especially pressing one.
So it seems we’re likely to swing back to the ongoing war against Chaos, for the first time since Nagash when and Reverso Uno’d Shyish. There are a lot of players entered The Great Game since that time, and they’re mostly allies. Or at least sensible enough to see an alliance, however temporary, through properly before turning on each other.
And on the Mistrust within the pantheon of Order? I like it. They’re perhaps less set against one another than the Chaos Gods, but still far from one big old happy clappy family circle.
My favourite angle their? Teclis gifting Sigmar Enlightment Cannons, only for the Big Bearded Git to turn them into Thicky Rays. So whilst this book clearly paints Teclis as arrogant, we still get to see some of Sigmar’s shortcomings.
I’m also interested in what it means to have cancelled the Necroquake out.
My biggest unfounded fear is it is the lore reason for them to discontinue the Malign Sorcery supplement. The Necroquake was the catalyst to release them, the end of the quake could be why they’ll no longer exist. It is a 2+ years old supplement.
My hope is that its the lore reason for them to change the rules for Endless Spells to what the Seraphon have (Bound Endless Spells).
On the Chaos side, Slaanesh’s spawn is something new, and we know Belakor is next up - and the model has a ded Chaos Warrior as decoration. Historically, Belakor has been a detriment to the Gods because they can’t really control him. So one suspects he’ll be a big old spanner, and indeed a big old spanner in Archaon’s plans.
Exactly. It feels like Broken Realms key them is that every "too big to fail" in each faction is about to get a spanner into their gears.
My biggest unfounded fear is it is the lore reason for them to discontinue the Malign Sorcery supplement. The Necroquake was the catalyst to release them, the end of the quake could be why they’ll no longer exist. It is a 2+ years old supplement.
My hope is that its the lore reason for them to change the rules for Endless Spells to what the Seraphon have (Bound Endless Spells).
Endless Spells felt like they were trying to patch the dreaded Double Turn. If they end up dropping Turn Roll Off in 3.0 then the old Endless Spells need to be changed somewhat. I imagine that will happen eventually if they go for the more traditional turn order.
I think when you put 'spoiler' in the title it is fine to not use spoiler tags; anyone who wants to avoid them won't click the thread in the first place.
Eldarsif wrote: The joy of Age of Sigmar is that the lore has not been shackled down like it has in 40k. I am actually looking forward to each book(and perhaps new edition) just to see what happens next in the story development.
Does feel like Death is about to be divvied up into separate factions. Mistrust also growing in Order with Morathi and her scheming.
Totally, 100% agreed. I looked at the recent 40k campaign book release and saw it was $60 for less content and no relevant plot. It continues to shock me just how big the gap in quality is for AoS and 40k campaign books, because the AoS ones are fantastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Necroquake was like an earthquake with periodic aftershocks following it, but the first big shake is what disrupted magic enough to cause endless spells in that it fundamentally changed the state of things. That effect is the Arcanum Optimar. All BR:Teclis did is halt the continuous expansion of deathly energies from the Shyish nadir; the Arcanum Optimar has not been affected. Endless spells are kicking around just like they did before.
Wait is Belakor fighting Tyrion? is that the deadlier enemy?
I mean it would make sense. I hope they don't kill Tyrion man, I really want my Phoenix Dragons!
Overall I love where this story is going for broken realms they are really interesting and Morathi was a page turner with high stakes and lots of wonderful character moments.
Another great part about this book is just my favorite revenge story:
Spoiler:
Elitharion getting his vengeance on and throwing arkhan off Hysh, I kid you not I laughed my arse off
The whole end fights were great, the only parts I was kind of iffy on was the Mortarchs but. Thats fine.
I do think overall the stories present in broken realms are going to be interesting.
My pet theory about the next big bad is that the Lumineth and most of the races we saw 'winning' are going to get the arses handed to them by Belakor as he will be the next big bad guy.
Which stinks because 40k does not tie anything to its narrative with model releases, while AOS really is able to gather hype and love for the models releasing just by tying it really well to the central narrative. And we have actual stakes to the characters and stories. Which also helps like ground the setting.
Somehow AOS felt more grounded than 40k has in ages.
Eldarsif wrote: The joy of Age of Sigmar is that the lore has not been shackled down like it has in 40k. I am actually looking forward to each book(and perhaps new edition) just to see what happens next in the story development.
Does feel like Death is about to be divvied up into separate factions. Mistrust also growing in Order with Morathi and her scheming.
Age of Sigmar, despite it's rough start seems to me to be akin to a great love affair. You can tell the team who is responsible for all aspects of the IP actually seem to care about it.
Eldarsif wrote: The joy of Age of Sigmar is that the lore has not been shackled down like it has in 40k. I am actually looking forward to each book(and perhaps new edition) just to see what happens next in the story development.
Does feel like Death is about to be divvied up into separate factions. Mistrust also growing in Order with Morathi and her scheming.
Age of Sigmar, despite it's rough start seems to me to be akin to a great love affair. You can tell the team who is responsible for all aspects of the IP actually seem to care about it.
It helps that the AoS team essentially had a clean slate since they were starting at the beginning and thus we have no expectations as to the status quo of the setting. Plus, memes aside regarding Stormcast, there's no "main force" driving the narrative. Contrast to the 40K team, who has the past 20 years to be constrained by and a mostly Imperium centric story to tell. Yes, they've been given a bit more leeway by finally lifting the "stay pre-millenium change" restriction, but they still have to keep a mostly Imperium status quo intact so they have more restraints to what they can do vs AoS.
That freedom to keep us wondering what's next and willingness to actually affect the status of what we've had for the past couple months makes the story more alive, especially vs the constant "worst thing ever happens, oh look 11th hour save that keeps the overall situation the same" 40K has to keep repeating.
Nagash and Arkhan are gone. And we know Neferata and Mannfred as still politicking and invading each other’s domains. With Nagash out for the count, and without Arkhan to speed his return it seem the cohesion of Death is gone.
Does Manfred actually achieve anything?
Neferata would likely be happy to ally at least in name with the forces of Order - it suits her plans and style and Sigmar sought her out at the beginning of the realmgate wars as a potential ally....
On other other hand a Morathi/Neferata alliance would be scary fun (if likely short lived)
If Nagash is truly gone - does that mean all the gods of the dead he devoured went with him?
Teclis has always been a total dick - glad to see that continues.
Teclis is indeed a total prick who does it for the greater good but is still setting records in big a dick he can be while doing it. Maybe he's compensating for something...
Mannfred is the only character who had his plans achieved perfectly; he failed in his mission in exactly the manner he wished to, freeing up forces to attack Neffy and instigating further Sylvaneth-Nurgle conflict that we don't know if it is incidental or part of further goals.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Teclis is indeed a total prick who does it for the greater good but is still setting records in big a dick he can be while doing it. Maybe he's compensating for something...
Mannfred is the only character who had his plans achieved perfectly; he failed in his mission in exactly the manner he wished to, freeing up forces to attack Neffy and instigating further Sylvaneth-Nurgle conflict that we don't know if it is incidental or part of further goals.
Well he used to have concubines who were both twins and princesses........
Nagash and Arkhan are gone. And we know Neferata and Mannfred as still politicking and invading each other’s domains. With Nagash out for the count, and without Arkhan to speed his return it seem the cohesion of Death is gone.
Does Manfred actually achieve anything?
Neferata would likely be happy to ally at least in name with the forces of Order - it suits her plans and style and Sigmar sought her out at the beginning of the realmgate wars as a potential ally....
On other other hand a Morathi/Neferata alliance would be scary fun (if likely short lived)
If Nagash is truly gone - does that mean all the gods of the dead he devoured went with him?
Teclis has always been a total dick - glad to see that continues.
Nagash isn't gone. His essence escaped through a Realm Gate. He's just going to do a Sauron for a while before he jumps up behind Teclis at the most inconvenient time. Same goes for Arkhan who will be back when Nagash pulls himself together.
Teclis’ characterisation is particularly good in, erm, Teclis.
The arrogance of Elves comes across - along with a sense that it’s not at all come from complacency.
He strikes me more as “If I took the time to explain all of this to you in terms you could understand, let alone persuade you it’s the correct course of action, it would be too late”.
We know the Lumineth will level city and settlement to get their job done. And we can now reasonably say that job is pretty much essential to repair the damage Nagash caused (well, the Skaven that got squished caused, I suppose). And it’s certainly portrayed that it is a case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few.
But he doesn’t seem conceited about it. He’s not telling anyone because the Realms need fixing now.
What the repercussions might be, who knows. I guess it depends on the proof being in the pudding, and how pragmatic the other Gods are willing to be about it.
There’s a lot of narrative leeway there, I trust you’ll agree. Certainly there’s no feeling that each book is locking a certain course at this point.
The arrogance of Elves comes across - along with a sense that it’s not at all come from complacency.
He strikes me more as “If I took the time to explain all of this to you in terms you could understand, let alone persuade you it’s the correct course of action, it would be too late”.
.
That went so well in the End Times .......
Are there any interactions between the older Mortarchs and the newer ones?
If Nagash is truly gone - does that mean all the gods of the dead he devoured went with him?
Nagash will be back. I mean, there is a model to sell after all. Regarding the gods he devoured this might be an opportune time for GW to introduce more death factions with those gods leading these factions.
Nagash had his body destroyed by Archaon during the Age of Chaos, it only knocked him out for a few centuries. And that was when the Shyish Nadir didn't exist.
I am excited for Belakor. and Nagash of course will be back, I assume he will come out with his own revamped death army, eventually as it looks like legions of nagash are essentially over and done with as most of their range is being split up. I am hoping we see more types of undead for each mortarchs.
He strikes me more as “If I took the time to explain all of this to you in terms you could understand, let alone persuade you it’s the correct course of action, it would be too late”.
"The realms will turn into chaos jelly if we don't patch them up, I've checked all the options, no, it can't wait" there, done! That'll be fifty bazillion elven croissants in consultation.
Asherian Command wrote: I am excited for Belakor. and Nagash of course will be back, I assume he will come out with his own revamped death army, eventually as it looks like legions of nagash are essentially over and done with as most of their range is being split up. I am hoping we see more types of undead for each mortarchs.
My impression was that Ossiarch Bonereapers was his pride and joy, the closest to a 'personal army' that Nagash could have. It's got all his design elements branded into the whole force.
Meanwhile, all the stuff left in Legions of Nagash is literally zombies and skeletons and vampires, all the stuff that's being baked into Soulblight Gravelords.
It's less that Legions of Nagash is being split up and more that it was being used as a hold-over until the rest of the Death faction could be fleshed out.
Vampires are not (directly) the creation of Nagash and have always (with a very execeptions) served him with deep reluctance, looking to satisfy their own desires and ambitions. They also rely on the living for sustainance - another thing that puts them at odds with Nagash who desires a world that is populated by just the dead.
The Bonereapers do as they are told and serve his as he wishes to be served.
Old World vampires, AoS vampires are all soulblight (aside for the few flesheater ones? but they still started with Nagash) so descendants from the two vampire mortarchs he recreated?
Cronch wrote: Old World vampires, AoS vampires are all soulblight (aside for the few flesheater ones? but they still started with Nagash) so descendants from the two vampire mortarchs he recreated?
Its all quite vague and often interesting (to me at least) how some of the "survivors" of the Old World have come into the Realms. The lore suggests that Arkhan, Neferata and Mannfred are all just recreations of Nagash but they do retain surprising elements of their original personalities that Nagash does not value - so I am not sure. Its stated in the lore including Legions of Nagash, several times that Neferata is the first Vampire - so does that mean she had to create Mannfred....also even the original FEC Ushoran must have been created by her or one of her blood children....
Nefereta has always been the first Vampire, though. That would still hold true if Nagash had simply recreated them all like so many other returnees that aren't gods have been.
Charistoph wrote: From what it looks like the Bonereapers seem like a cross between the Sigmarines and Necrons.
Too bad they can't shoot worth crap.
That's part of their identity you know. If you want a shooty army? Play Lumineth, Cities, or Kharodon. Others can also do shooty to degrees. If you want hard as nails melee focused cool-as- looking undead though? That's why you play Bonereapers.
Charistoph wrote: From what it looks like the Bonereapers seem like a cross between the Sigmarines and Necrons.
Too bad they can't shoot worth crap.
That's part of their identity you know. If you want a shooty army? Play Lumineth, Cities, or Kharodon. Others can also do shooty to degrees. If you want hard as nails melee focused cool-as- looking undead though? That's why you play Bonereapers.
Wonder has he ever tried 3 crawlers. All 5 wound or less characters die with no overkill(each failed save dead charactei. 3 shoots at up to 4 different character). Terrorgheist etc flat out dissapear. In barrage.
None? It was Death Vs Aelves with a smattering of Kharadron and Nurgle. And they haven't strictly lost that city to Morathi. They're in a parlay situation at the moment.
Charistoph wrote: From what it looks like the Bonereapers seem like a cross between the Sigmarines and Necrons.
Too bad they can't shoot worth crap.
That's part of their identity you know. If you want a shooty army? Play Lumineth, Cities, or Kharodon. Others can also do shooty to degrees. If you want hard as nails melee focused cool-as- looking undead though? That's why you play Bonereapers.
Except for 3 things: That seems to be the "character" of the Grand Alliance of Death since Khemri was dropped like a bad habit. Sigmarines can shoot worth a crap. Necrons can shoot shoot worth a crap.
tneva82 wrote:Wonder has he ever tried 3 crawlers. All 5 wound or less characters die with no overkill(each failed save dead charactei. 3 shoots at up to 4 different character). Terrorgheist etc flat out dissapear. In barrage.
Or you know, look at what the comparison was to. If you're curious, look above. Artillery only isn't what I'd call the most effective shooting plan.
I like these character-centric stories. You see the world through their eyes and their forces, get to see how other characters react to these grand developments, etc.
Will be fun to see how Belakor is dealing with Katakros and Olynder, if at all. Aren't those two mortarchs fighting in the 8 points?
I noticed the notification of Kroak, and it made me wonder if some of those Available to Order tags will be going away from some of the models or if they'll be replaced as part of the introduction.
Charistoph wrote: From what it looks like the Bonereapers seem like a cross between the Sigmarines and Necrons.
Too bad they can't shoot worth crap.
That's part of their identity you know. If you want a shooty army? Play Lumineth, Cities, or Kharodon. Others can also do shooty to degrees. If you want hard as nails melee focused cool-as- looking undead though? That's why you play Bonereapers.
Wonder has he ever tried 3 crawlers. All 5 wound or less characters die with no overkill(each failed save dead charactei. 3 shoots at up to 4 different character). Terrorgheist etc flat out dissapear. In barrage.
This assumes they fail their saves of course. The things don't have any rend. Or there's no trickery involving passing wounds off to bodyguard units.
But I'm still not calling a force having 9 shots/turn (even if they do hit on 2+ with 5damage each) a shooty army.
Togusa wrote: So it's been suggested in many threads that the grand alliances will eventually fade. When that happens, who will end up with nagash in their book?
Hopefully Sylvaneth. We all know that Allarielle isn’t cutting mustard as the resident “diety” for the tree folk. Having a useful centerpiece model would be nice for a change
This assumes they fail their saves of course. The things don't have any rend. Or there's no trickery involving passing wounds off to bodyguard units.
But I'm still not calling a force having 9 shots/turn (even if they do hit on 2+ with 5damage each) a shooty army.
Most characters have 4+ save. And of course you are targeting 4 characters at the same time. You think ALL of those will save? And unlike some other units with random damage or 1 damage per shot these don't overkill. There's no "wonder how many shots to allocate to that 5 wound character" and then find out you failed by one stinking wound and need to be splitting and wasting damage. One shot, one character. Some will invariably fail. And terrorgheists and stonehorns will just dissapear.
And 9? More like 12...You do know they can go to 4 shots per model?
They aren't uber shooty army but hardly worthless. There's reason why crawlers appear in majority of bonereaper armies...
What do you expect? 4 shots, 4 dead characters just like that? That's...unreasonable.
tneva82 wrote: [
And 9? More like 12...You do know they can go to 4 shots per model?
No I don't, but then I can't quote all the various command abilities, spells, battalion abilities, & whatever is in BR for the Reapers as it's not one of my armies.
And to date I've only played against one, kinda poorly put together, OBR force with 1 crawler. The guy was more interested in babbling about the lore of his army than being effective on the field. Clearly that player doesn't know about it either. And I'm not inclined to tell him about it.
Togusa wrote: So it's been suggested in many threads that the grand alliances will eventually fade. When that happens, who will end up with nagash in their book?
It was suggested that Slaanesh was going to be squatted too, and we saw how that went.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: And now we have Lord Kroak making an epic return.
I like these character-centric stories. You see the world through their eyes and their forces, get to see how other characters react to these grand developments, etc.
Will be fun to see how Belakor is dealing with Katakros and Olynder, if at all. Aren't those two mortarchs fighting in the 8 points?
Katakros is, Olynder was only there for the initial assault.
Togusa wrote: So it's been suggested in many threads that the grand alliances will eventually fade.
Why would GW do that though? The "Grand Alliances" are as much a sales/product organization tool as anything rules/lore related. They literally sell books for Order/Destruction/Death & Chaos for Warcry.
And although few players make use of the option of organizing their armies via the generic Grand Alliances in AoS, that doesn't hurt the game nor sales.
I think the idea of grand alliances will stay, but there will be more conflict between all the grand alliances, and more of "There is more lore reasons as to why they can fight each other."
Asherian Command wrote: I think the idea of grand alliances will stay, but there will be more conflict between all the grand alliances, and more of "There is more lore reasons as to why they can fight each other."
Indeed - there was already conflicts in the Alliances
Chaos and Destruction are as happy to fight each other as any other
Death has internal conflicts - especially between the Vampire Mortarchs/Lords and some FEC are openly enemies of Nagash
Order - The Deepkin have not stopped raiding and have had conflicts with various others - especially the Sylvaneth and Daughters.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Death was really the only alliance that needed reasons to fight each other.
What, beyond it's game night at the FLGS/club or tourney time? That's always seemed to suffice.
Beyond that? Just because both parties are physically dead doesn't mean their rivalry & scheming is....
The only faction that could was the vampires who didn't exist cause they weren't free of nagash's control reminder. None of them could really fight one another, because of nagash's overwhelming control, because of what happen in BR, they are now free of his influence and may do whatever they want. They might have been able to before, but now its like there is no one holding the leash and its a scramble to get the most power.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Death was really the only alliance that needed reasons to fight each other.
What, beyond it's game night at the FLGS/club or tourney time? That's always seemed to suffice.
Beyond that? Just because both parties are physically dead doesn't mean their rivalry & scheming is....
The only faction that could was the vampires who didn't exist cause they weren't free of nagash's control reminder. None of them could really fight one another, because of nagash's overwhelming control, because of what happen in BR, they are now free of his influence and may do whatever they want. They might have been able to before, but now its like there is no one holding the leash and its a scramble to get the most power.
Flesh Eater Courts could and did war on the other Death Factions and each other.
The Deathrattle Kings and Queens did the same.
Vampires scheme - as you said.
Yeah. It’s always been my understanding that Nagash was quite happy for his underlings to bicker, politic and backstab.
They could do pretty much as they liked, provided it didn’t interfere with his plans. And if it did? Yeah No More Free Will For You, Nagash Says No.
So when he needed absolute singular unity of purpose, unlike pretty much any other of the Gods, he got it. The only other God with even close to that level of control would be Sigmar, and even then that solely extends to the Sigmarines.
Now he’s all discombobulated, his minions are left more to their own devices. And with Arkhan also gone for a space walk, it seems doubtful any have anything like a notion of the overarching plans. So they may end up working against each other without it even being through conflict.
And hey, Mannfred was a selfish Richard even when Nagash flicked the loyalty switch. Who knows how much advantage he’ll take with the collar off (or at least no-one holding the lead).
It does however suggest the opportunity for greater cooperation between Death and Order. Mannfred, Neferata and Katarkos are certainly not above working with the living to further their goals. So alliances Nagash might’ve refused could be back on the table to varying degrees.
One does wonder what impact Nagash’s lack of corporeal presence might have upon his realm, too.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Death was really the only alliance that needed reasons to fight each other.
What, beyond it's game night at the FLGS/club or tourney time? That's always seemed to suffice.
Beyond that? Just because both parties are physically dead doesn't mean their rivalry & scheming is....
The only faction that could was the vampires who didn't exist cause they weren't free of nagash's control reminder. None of them could really fight one another, because of nagash's overwhelming control, because of what happen in BR, they are now free of his influence and may do whatever they want. They might have been able to before, but now its like there is no one holding the leash and its a scramble to get the most power.
Maybe Nagash pits them against each other for funsies....
My point is that GWs fluff, indeed any game companies fluff, stops mattering come game night/tourney time & is trumped by the players fluff.
Yes--it was never difficult to come up with justification for Death v Death, but the fluff did not provide ready-made reasoning or narrative tools to support it. There was not background support for that sort of conflict compared to what they other alliances had.
One thing I’m thinking though...how corporeal does Nagash need to be in the Shyish Nadir? With that much necromantic magic flowing, I suspect he’ll be down for less time than before, especially as it was apparently just his body smashed to bits (though we can’t rule out some damage to his spirit?)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: One does wonder what impact Nagash’s lack of corporeal presence might have upon his realm, too.
I just had this image of the Bonereapers turning in to the Death version of the Fyreslayers. They go around collecting just the right bones in order to rebuild Nagash's body.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Yes--it was never difficult to come up with justification for Death v Death, but the fluff did not provide ready-made reasoning or narrative tools to support it. There was not background support for that sort of conflict compared to what they other alliances had.
It absoultely did - in the army books and in the novels.
Article today on Wight Kings.
In a change of background, they’re now seemingly entirely sentient, and have to be bargained with rather than Necromantically controlled.
Been that way from day 1 - Wight Kings and Queens were often independant Allies of the Mortarchs or other Death lords.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Death was really the only alliance that needed reasons to fight each other.
What, beyond it's game night at the FLGS/club or tourney time? That's always seemed to suffice.
Beyond that? Just because both parties are physically dead doesn't mean their rivalry & scheming is....
The only faction that could was the vampires who didn't exist cause they weren't free of nagash's control reminder. None of them could really fight one another, because of nagash's overwhelming control, because of what happen in BR, they are now free of his influence and may do whatever they want. They might have been able to before, but now its like there is no one holding the leash and its a scramble to get the most power.
Maybe Nagash pits them against each other for funsies....
My point is that GWs fluff, indeed any game companies fluff, stops mattering come game night/tourney time & is trumped by the players fluff.
Okay? I mean my whole point is that lore wise it didn't make sense, but you can obviously do whatever you want in the hobby / tabletop. But lorewise it didn't make much sense especially with the necro quake going on.
Also I've noticed a ton of people have missed the conversations with Allarielle and Teclis.
Asherian Command wrote: [Okay? I mean my whole point is that lore wise it didn't make sense, but you can obviously do whatever you want in the hobby / tabletop. But lorewise it didn't make much sense especially with the necro quake going on.
GW is literally giving us a multi-issue, during the Necroquake, pre-Nagash scattering Death on Death campaign in White Dwarf as we speak. OBR just declaring war on Flesh-Eaters for raw materials.
Please, tell us again how it makes no sense lore-wise when we're receiving multiple articles of lore describing exactly how and why it happens in universe.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Death was really the only alliance that needed reasons to fight each other.
What, beyond it's game night at the FLGS/club or tourney time? That's always seemed to suffice.
Beyond that? Just because both parties are physically dead doesn't mean their rivalry & scheming is....
The only faction that could was the vampires who didn't exist cause they weren't free of nagash's control reminder. None of them could really fight one another, because of nagash's overwhelming control, because of what happen in BR, they are now free of his influence and may do whatever they want. They might have been able to before, but now its like there is no one holding the leash and its a scramble to get the most power.
Maybe Nagash pits them against each other for funsies....
My point is that GWs fluff, indeed any game companies fluff, stops mattering come game night/tourney time & is trumped by the players fluff.
Okay? I mean my whole point is that lore wise it didn't make sense, but you can obviously do whatever you want in the hobby / tabletop. But lorewise it didn't make much sense especially with the necro quake going on.
Also I've noticed a ton of people have missed the conversations with Allarielle and Teclis.
2. Allarlielle considers herself the Elf God, and basically has blessed Teclis's Staff which is basically what saved his life during the duel with nagash.
3. Ally basically tells Teclis he is wasting his time with Nagash, and that it is not the right time to deal with him, as she is still very bitter her daughter was murdered to resummon him.
4. Ally is playing with extreme powers that she is warned by Teclis About.
5. Tyrion created Teclis, he sacrifice his sight to 'reborn' his brother. Tyrion arrived way before Teclis did, and in this quip we learn quite a bit about Tyrion:
It was too much, even for him. Though he ventured miles further than any mortal could have done and uncovered many revelations about the nature of mind, body, and spirit, he stared at the raw light of Hysh for so long that his eyes melted within his skull. Yet in doing so, he piqued the curiosity of the Realm's Edge itself - the elemental spirit of brilliant light that occupied the Perimeter Inimical and shone as the blazing sun across all the realms. It appeared to Tyrion in all its blinding splendour, but as the Lord of Lumination had already lost his eyes, he did not look away. There, aelf and spirit found common cause. Tyrion remembers nothing of the encounter, but he awoke once more at the realm's heart. There, lying next to him, was the recumbent body of his brother Teclis - still weak of limb as he had been since birth but with a lambent glow pouring out of him. The two had become twin halves of the same godly power, which instead of being divided or lessened, became reflected and magnified.
"The seed of the indomitable Alumnian spirit can be found in the legend of Tyrion, god of light and first of all aelvenkind to explore the Ten Paradises. In his lonely explorations of Hysh, Tyrion strove to reach the Perimeter Inimcal, passing across the Luminaris Sea to walk the fractal landscapes of Haixiah. He did so seeking not only his people from the world-that-was, but also seeking knowledge itself. Even when the landscape turned to abstraction and dissolution he strove ever on, in doing so winning the repect of the entity that was Hysh's solar limit - though it cost him his eyes, for so intense were the energies of the Perimeter Inimical they could steal the sight from even a god."
Page 104 Broken Realms Teclis
Which sounds like this light spirit to me it might be even more powerful than Celenar. As most of the first Lumineth book talked about Teclis over Tyrion, it is interesting the vanari side mentions tyrion far more which makes sense. As it seems that he is the more wiser of the two, and very different compared to his Warhammer Fantasy Version. It has been my long belief that Tyrion was the creator of the Lumineth and Teclis merely the Adoptive God of the Lumineth.
I think this confusion has lead to many to assume Teclis is the god of the lumineth / light or creator of the Lumineth because he was mentioned more often. Yet it is specifically mentioned Tyrion is the God of Light and Teclis the Mage God.
Tyrion is the creator of the Lumineth, it is even mentioned several times in various sources, that Tyrion shared the lumineth with Teclis. Teclis might've had a hand in the reinvention of the Lumineth, but he did not cast the first stone in their creation, as the Alumnia's story point to that it was Tyrion who went there first and created the Lumineth with Teclis.
Teclis might be the figurehead currently but it was Tyrion who set everything into motion and was around before Teclis was even a thing in mortal realms.
Then my favorite bit is how Allarile is literally going into war mode and took on 5 zombie dragons by herself.
Please, tell us again how it makes no sense lore-wise when we're receiving multiple articles of lore describing exactly how and why it happens in univer
Because not all races under Nagash are the Flesh Eater courts?
Like Ossiarchs probably weren't fighting the forces of Mannfred or Nefereta or Olyinder? Like I mean? There is no way that really happened at all?
Please, tell us again how it makes no sense lore-wise when we're receiving multiple articles of lore describing exactly how and why it happens in univer
Because not all races under Nagash are the Flesh Eater courts?
Like Ossiarchs probably weren't fighting the forces of Mannfred or Nefereta or Olyinder? Like I mean? There is no way that really happened at all?
Oh it's happened. GW just hasn't told you about it yet. Stay tuned & keep $50 handy.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Yes--it was never difficult to come up with justification for Death v Death, but the fluff did not provide ready-made reasoning or narrative tools to support it. There was not background support for that sort of conflict compared to what they other alliances had.
It absoultely did - in the army books and in the novels.
If you aren't sure if you understand what someone is saying it is perfectly respectable to ask for clarification.
Has Age of Sigmar's lore ever given us any reason to be impressed when someone punks Nagash? When you read that Teclis shattered Nagash's body and banished him for an indefinite amount of time, were you wowed by Teclis' great feat? Or did you say "Oh looks like Nagash is getting gak on again" and immediately tune out?
Sure, it's only happened twice. Once in a direct confrontation with Archaon (which went about as well as could be expected) and now against Teclis on his home turf. People forget Nagash has been dominating during this period, even making Chaos panic initially.
2. Allarlielle considers herself the Elf God, and basically has blessed Teclis's Staff which is basically what saved his life during the duel with nagash.
3. Ally basically tells Teclis he is wasting his time with Nagash, and that it is not the right time to deal with him, as she is still very bitter her daughter was murdered to resummon him.
4. Ally is playing with extreme powers that she is warned by Teclis About.
5. Tyrion created Teclis, he sacrifice his sight to 'reborn' his brother. Tyrion arrived way before Teclis did, and in this quip we learn quite a bit about Tyrion:
Thanks - and cool - I had wondered before if "Ally" recalled that Teclis had caused her daughter to kidnapped, tortured for months and then sacrificed according to Teclis's plan.
I also would really love to read some more stories in the Age of Myth and how the Pantheon interacted with each other - Nagash and anyone, Neferata and Morathi, Alarielle with her ex's and the Teclis responsible for what happened to her daughter and Mannfred for what he did to her!
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Sure, it's only happened twice. Once in a direct confrontation with Archaon (which went about as well as could be expected) and now against Teclis on his home turf. People forget Nagash has been dominating during this period, even making Chaos panic initially.
Indeed. He’s also the only God we know can’t really die, such is his power level.
What toll this most recent kicking will take remains to be seen. If he’s been diminished, there aren’t exactly many other gods of death to be consumed.
It could be we see him adopt more of an Avatar of Khaine approach in future, using a series of puppets empowered by his will, rather than risking his own neck.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Sure, it's only happened twice. Once in a direct confrontation with Archaon (which went about as well as could be expected) and now against Teclis on his home turf. People forget Nagash has been dominating during this period, even making Chaos panic initially.
Indeed. He’s also the only God we know can’t really die, such is his power level.
What toll this most recent kicking will take remains to be seen. If he’s been diminished, there aren’t exactly many other gods of death to be consumed.
It could be we see him adopt more of an Avatar of Khaine approach in future, using a series of puppets empowered by his will, rather than risking his own neck.
There is no real reason why he can not be destroyed - he is an ascened mortal the same as the others and is "A" god of death, the most powerful one who has devoured many others but not the only one and should all the others be released he could, I think, theoretically be replaced as others have ruled Shyish before.
Tyrion is the creator of the Lumineth, it is even mentioned several times in various sources, that Tyrion shared the lumineth with Teclis. Teclis might've had a hand in the reinvention of the Lumineth, but he did not cast the first stone in their creation, as the Alumnia's story point to that it was Tyrion who went there first and created the Lumineth with Teclis.
Teclis might be the figurehead currently but it was Tyrion who set everything into motion and was around before Teclis was even a thing in mortal realms.
That bit's just...nasty. When you consider it, no wonder Teclis has such a chip on his shoulder.
Morathi successfully remade Elves in -her- image (the Scathborn).
Tyrion successfully remade Elves in his image (the Lumineth).
Allarielle successfully remade Elves in her image (well, partial Elves - Sylvaneth).
Teclis? Failed. The Idoneth are considered incomplete failures. And he's literally the only one of his peers who has tried and failed.
Even more of a chip when you consider that the other 'Gods' and equivalents have done just as well - Sigmar has his Stormcast, Nagash has his Ossiarch and even the Slann have their Seraphon (go go freaky reincarnated memory shenanigans!)
Void__Dragon wrote:Has Age of Sigmar's lore ever given us any reason to be impressed when someone punks Nagash? When you read that Teclis shattered Nagash's body and banished him for an indefinite amount of time, were you wowed by Teclis' great feat? Or did you say "Oh looks like Nagash is getting gak on again" and immediately tune out?
Well, Nagash was always more of a scheming wizard than a battle wizard. He was originally taken down WAAAAAAAY back when by a barbarian with a funny sword given to him by rat people (if I remember right). Admittedly, he was a LITTLE distracted.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:What toll this most recent kicking will take remains to be seen. If he’s been diminished, there aren’t exactly many other gods of death to be consumed.
A better question may be just how diminished he was before all that. The changes that level of power can make to a person is always an interesting avenue to pursue in a literary capacity.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It could be we see him adopt more of an Avatar of Khaine approach in future, using a series of puppets empowered by his will, rather than risking his own neck.
Not a bad idea, actually. Definitely fits the more scheming wizard style that he was than being the hyper-battle wizard that he tried to be.
Reminds me of a character called Lord Nemesis of City of Heroes. He made a lot of clones to handle a lot of schemes so if they died while doing it, he was still around.
Well, Nagash was always more of a scheming wizard than a battle wizard. He was originally taken down WAAAAAAAY back when by a barbarian with a funny sword given to him by rat people (if I remember right). Admittedly, he was a LITTLE distracted.
Mostly true
Alcadizaar defeated his armies but his nation was destroyed and he was captured - the Skaven released him, gave him the Fellblade and pointed him in the direction of Nagash - the Council of Thirteen driectly protecting him from malign magic (several died) until he had hacked the Great Necromancer to bits and chucked him in the Warp Furnace.
Sigmar defeated him in battle as well with the help of his rather fine Dwarf Hammer
Both times it took him centuries to return. 1666 years after the Sigmar incident
He was defeated and imprisoned sometime in the Age of Myth and had to be saved by Sigmar. Archaon shreded him body and soul and through much of the Age of Chaos he was trying to recover.
I read somewhere that, possibly exaggerated, there was this "believe you can hurt the Nighthaunt and Ethereal doesn't work" sort of 80s cartoon "power of love and friendship triumphs over evil" bs in BR:Teclis in regards to Nagash and co, is that true? Like did they really boil all of Death to some carebear stare gak and wipe out Nagash and his army?
Tyrion is the creator of the Lumineth, it is even mentioned several times in various sources, that Tyrion shared the lumineth with Teclis. Teclis might've had a hand in the reinvention of the Lumineth, but he did not cast the first stone in their creation, as the Alumnia's story point to that it was Tyrion who went there first and created the Lumineth with Teclis.
Teclis might be the figurehead currently but it was Tyrion who set everything into motion and was around before Teclis was even a thing in mortal realms.
That bit's just...nasty. When you consider it, no wonder Teclis has such a chip on his shoulder.
Morathi successfully remade Elves in -her- image (the Scathborn).
Tyrion successfully remade Elves in his image (the Lumineth).
Allarielle successfully remade Elves in her image (well, partial Elves - Sylvaneth).
Teclis? Failed. The Idoneth are considered incomplete failures. And he's literally the only one of his peers who has tried and failed.
Even more of a chip when you consider that the other 'Gods' and equivalents have done just as well - Sigmar has his Stormcast, Nagash has his Ossiarch and even the Slann have their Seraphon (go go freaky reincarnated memory shenanigans!)
I don't recall anything in the fluff that ever suggested Tyrion was the sole creator of the Lumineth. The battletome certainly names it as a joint effort. Without any evidence this theory doesn't come across as valid; maybe Asherian can provide some sources. I haven't gone through all the fluff from the RPG myself, maybe it's there.
Tyrion is the creator of the Lumineth, it is even mentioned several times in various sources, that Tyrion shared the lumineth with Teclis. Teclis might've had a hand in the reinvention of the Lumineth, but he did not cast the first stone in their creation, as the Alumnia's story point to that it was Tyrion who went there first and created the Lumineth with Teclis.
Teclis might be the figurehead currently but it was Tyrion who set everything into motion and was around before Teclis was even a thing in mortal realms.
That bit's just...nasty. When you consider it, no wonder Teclis has such a chip on his shoulder.
Morathi successfully remade Elves in -her- image (the Scathborn). Tyrion successfully remade Elves in his image (the Lumineth). Allarielle successfully remade Elves in her image (well, partial Elves - Sylvaneth).
Teclis? Failed. The Idoneth are considered incomplete failures. And he's literally the only one of his peers who has tried and failed.
Even more of a chip when you consider that the other 'Gods' and equivalents have done just as well - Sigmar has his Stormcast, Nagash has his Ossiarch and even the Slann have their Seraphon (go go freaky reincarnated memory shenanigans!)
I don't recall anything in the fluff that ever suggested Tyrion was the sole creator of the Lumineth. The battletome certainly names it as a joint effort. Without any evidence this theory doesn't come across as valid; maybe Asherian can provide some sources. I haven't gone through all the fluff from the RPG myself, maybe it's there.
They both created the Lumineth, as it is mentioned in the battletome, but it wasn't originally Teclis's that was the Idoneth.
As Teclis comes from Tyrion. the newish lore essentially states that Teclis was born from Tyrion, and Tyrion was the first god of light.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wayniac wrote: I read somewhere that, possibly exaggerated, there was this "believe you can hurt the Nighthaunt and Ethereal doesn't work" sort of 80s cartoon "power of love and friendship triumphs over evil" bs in BR:Teclis in regards to Nagash and co, is that true? Like did they really boil all of Death to some carebear stare gak and wipe out Nagash and his army?
No, its quite literally the stronger your faith the more likely you can hurt one. That is a misquote and a horrible one at that. Someone who clearly just heard the lore and didn't actually read it. When in most cases it also matters who is holding the weapon as we see in the The STorm Gheists bit.
"-those who felt the icy tendrils of fear constrict around their hearts were swiftly slain, for their speartips and swords passed straight through the tortured spirits. Those who steeled themselves who found courage in invoking sigmar- or teclis come to that - struck true and watched the spirits dissipate into nothingness."
The big thing that Teclis did was he burned away the books that let Nagash control Shyish the way that he did. Even if Nagash returns, he might not have those same tomes, and therefore may not ever regain control over some of the Death factions that really don't want to serve him.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Sure, it's only happened twice. Once in a direct confrontation with Archaon (which went about as well as could be expected) and now against Teclis on his home turf. People forget Nagash has been dominating during this period, even making Chaos panic initially.
Why did his fight with Archaon go "about as well as could be expected"?
Furthermore, what god-tier (in a fairly literal sense) character has Nagash defeated? Would you disagree that per Age of Sigmar's lore Nagash seems among the weakest gods?
Well, Nagash was always more of a scheming wizard than a battle wizard. He was originally taken down WAAAAAAAY back when by a barbarian with a funny sword given to him by rat people (if I remember right). Admittedly, he was a LITTLE distracted.
A fight Sigmar won with help and interference IIRC. Sigmar also being arguably the mightiest (in physical terms anyway) mortal to ever live, correct?
Charistoph wrote: Well, Nagash was always more of a scheming wizard than a battle wizard. He was originally taken down WAAAAAAAY back when by a barbarian with a funny sword given to him by rat people (if I remember right). Admittedly, he was a LITTLE distracted.
A fight Sigmar won with help and interference IIRC. Sigmar also being arguably the mightiest (in physical terms anyway) mortal to ever live, correct?
Sigmar came later and used a hammer.
Mr Morden above, had it correct. Nagash was first taken down by Alcadizaar using a sword given to him by Skaven while Nagash was doing the Ritual that turned the land of the Tomb Kings in to the land of death that was known in the days of Sigmar and the End Times.
The description used when I first heard it described Alcadizaar as a barbarian. To be fair, though, he had been in prison for a while up to this time.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Sure, it's only happened twice. Once in a direct confrontation with Archaon (which went about as well as could be expected) and now against Teclis on his home turf. People forget Nagash has been dominating during this period, even making Chaos panic initially.
Why did his fight with Archaon go "about as well as could be expected"?
Furthermore, what god-tier (in a fairly literal sense) character has Nagash defeated? Would you disagree that per Age of Sigmar's lore Nagash seems among the weakest gods?
Well, Nagash was always more of a scheming wizard than a battle wizard. He was originally taken down WAAAAAAAY back when by a barbarian with a funny sword given to him by rat people (if I remember right). Admittedly, he was a LITTLE distracted.
A fight Sigmar won with help and interference IIRC. Sigmar also being arguably the mightiest (in physical terms anyway) mortal to ever live, correct?
Because you don't pick a fight with the single most empowered creature of chaos in history and expect to walk away? god or not. Nagash has killed and eaten every other god of the underworlds in shyish as well as a few non-shyish gods. He's probably got the biggest kill count out of all of them. So no, he's nowhere near weakest. His arrogance just seems to make him fight those he actually is outclassed by.
Rihgu wrote: Well, I've read some lore spoilers and the summaries seem pretty cool.
Spoiler:
The White Dwarf appears to be back and the ONE THING Be'lakor didn't plan for
He's been back.
It may have been him in the aforementioned Gotrek audio drama, and the past 3 or 4 months he's been the star of a series in White Dwarf. Think the last part drops this or next month.
Pretty fun stories too.
Spoiler:
He seems to be going to every faction of Duardin specifically and teaching them lessons. First story was Fyreslayers at some sort of christening/naming ceremony, second Dispossessed at a remote brewery that was stubbornly not leaving while the world fell apart around them, third was Ironweld Arsenal in a crafting fair with the Lumineth, and next month he visits Kharadron. Hopefully it will be a catalyst to further unite the factions in the lore.
Especially an entire stormhost being wiped out that hasn't happened before along with all of the realmgates destroy, shoot that means the Realm of Metal is fethed.
I hope that we see the white dwarf get a model. And I also find it interesting how fethed over that realm is now, it was already fethed before, but now more so. But it now has harmed the dark gods and their plans they can't enter charmon either, and they had two of their silver towers completely destroyed dang. Thats pretty bad for all parties involved, Bel'akor definately won in some aspectsbut he lost his main objective, but still annihilated one entire stormhost forever.
My favorite part i've read from synopsises has been all the dwarves gathering together to fight Be'lakor
Automatically Appended Next Post: Given I now have 40 Hexwraiths thanks to Mortal Realms, I'm pretty happy with that!
Bloody hell I had to stop after the first subfaction (which has been around since last year; it was in a white dwarf) because the commentary is so cringey. It's like he's never actually played.
It wasn't a subfaction in White Dwarf, it was a battalion. Technically the abilities in this subfaction are from one battalion and one super battalion. Plus the command trait and artefact, though they are pretty bad.
So its a good point saving compared to taking the battalions! Not great compared to other armies still though.
Stux wrote: It wasn't a subfaction in White Dwarf, it was a battalion. Technically the abilities in this subfaction are from one battalion and one super battalion. Plus the command trait and artefact, though they are pretty bad.
So its a good point saving compared to taking the battalions! Not great compared to other armies still though.
Ah, thank you for the correction. And yeah, the artifact is bad and that command trait is truly awful. TBH if the bonuses are indeed as he stated I don't think they are worth going to NH allegiance for; Legion of Grief would still be better.
Stux wrote: It wasn't a subfaction in White Dwarf, it was a battalion. Technically the abilities in this subfaction are from one battalion and one super battalion. Plus the command trait and artefact, though they are pretty bad.
So its a good point saving compared to taking the battalions! Not great compared to other armies still though.
Ah, thank you for the correction. And yeah, the artifact is bad and that command trait is truly awful. TBH if the bonuses are indeed as he stated I don't think they are worth going to NH allegiance for; Legion of Grief would still be better.
With 40 Hexwraiths, it is giving me pause for consideration.
The main sticking point for me is that Command Trait though. It's not just that it's bad, it's that you lose out on Ruler of the Spirit Host, which is kind of huge...
NinthMusketeer wrote: You'd be running Olynder anyways tbh, and her general-only command ability is worth losing RotSH for.
Hmm, good point. So if you're taking Olynder and Hexwraiths anyway, the sub doesn't seem too bad. Compared to regular Nighthaunt anyway, not compared to LoG...
Off to see friends via the train on Saturday, as my car’s speed sensor is buggered, and it seems no local garage wants my money for what is a pretty straight forward and routine repair.
I’m hoping my local GW gets their New Releases ok, as that journey is good reading time I don’t want to squander!
Like shortly before BR: Teclis dropped, I haven’t read the new book and done a deep dive into it, but I’ve listened to 2+ Tough’s daily summary of eact Act. Pretty awesome stuff, once again. Probably my second fave of the 3, so far.
Initial Takeaways:
A Gaunt Summoner biting the bullet is a pretty big deal, since there is such a finite amount of them and this one was integral to quite a few of Archaon’s schemes. Seems like a big blow to Archaon’s leadership cadre.
I like that Bel’akor is active in the story/setting. Seems like they are really setting up Chaos to have 2 main leaders, with B and Archaon trying to outdo the other. Its good for Archaon to have some competition.
So, is it Grungni or Grombrindal? As a longtime Dwarf/Duardin player(them being my first love before Beastmen/BoC) I love the implications of either, and I feel like something big is in store for the Duardin. With the hints of Duardin unification in the Fyreslayers battletome, along with the Grombribdal(presumably) short stories in White Dwarf, I hope something big is in the works.
So, is it Grungni or Grombrindal? As a longtime Dwarf/Duardin player(them being my first love before Beastmen/BoC) I love the implications of either, and I feel like something big is in store for the Duardin. With the hints of Duardin unification in the Fyreslayers battletome, along with the Grombribdal(presumably) short stories in White Dwarf, I hope something big is in the works.
I'm going with Grombrindal(or some merging of the two since he's bearing a weapon more fitting Grungni). He's referred to as White Beard, Gromthi means "Ancestor"(Grombrindal means "White Bearded Ancestor" so it's a shortening of his old name), and the description before fully revealing himself matches the one in the White Dwarf stories.
Just finished reading it. And like it’s two sister volumes, and unlike paycheck awakening, it really feels like there are genuine stakes at...erm.....stake.
I’ll be back with actual thoughts later, once my the old thinker has had a chance to digest.
But for now? This feels like a distinct middle bit. A lot of very cool things occur, but none quite as fundamental as Morathi and Teclis.
None of it is exactly inconsequential, rather we’re yet to see its full import until this narrative is wrapped up/
Frankly, Psychic Awakening did not really seem to have a "linear" story to it until we got to the last few books.
Broken Realms is basically something that could be broken down into one big book if they choose to publish just the lore.
I think the white beard is a red herring; 'Gromthi' doesn't act like Grombrindal does, and Be'Lakor is legitimately afraid of him and refers to him as having returned. Grombrindal may be badass but he isn't THAT badass, and he hasn't been gone. Grungni makes more sense to me, but that's just my best guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other news, Reiknor's subfaction for NH is actually good enough to justify taking NH allegiance over Legion of Grief.
Yeah, if you're taking a lot of Chainrasps anyway (and let's face it, most Nighthaunt players are) its really good. I'm not sure if its better than Endless Legions, but its certainly a legitimate decision rather than one being leagues ahead of the other.
If you're not bringing lots of rasps it's a bit pointless though, so for more niche builds you're probably still going LoG.
Also, weird they chose Glaivewraiths to also get rerolls... like yeah they need help to be playable, but they will already have full hit rerolls the majority of the time anyway...
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think the white beard is a red herring; 'Gromthi' doesn't act like Grombrindal does, and Be'Lakor is legitimately afraid of him and refers to him as having returned. Grombrindal may be badass but he isn't THAT badass, and he hasn't been gone. Grungni makes more sense to me, but that's just my best guess.
He acts way more like Grombrindal in the White Dwarf stories(traveling in disguise to various Duardin communities to impart advice and help those in need). Hell, he even does the "pulls off his cloak to reveal his magnificent white beard" in this like he did in practically every story he's in in the Old World. His shtick has also always been to aid the Dwarves in times of great and dire need. It's also important to remember that Grombrindal is a literal physical manifestation of Dwarven Grudge. He was SO mad at his BFF Malekith in the Old World, he reconstituted after death(something not even the Dwarven gods could do) due to Malekith causing the War of the Beard and breaking his personal promise to Grombrindal to protect Dwarven kind. He's WAY more powerful than you remember him being. He also hasn't been officially seen since saving Malekith in the End Times save his very probable appearance in the second Realmslayer drama where he was only recognized towards the end because of his white beard and tells the character that does not to tell Gotrek or anyone else that he's out and about. Hell, before he told anyone to call him Gromthi, he was always referred to as "White Beard".
Have you been reading White Dwarf recently? He has definitely been seen since End Times. Multiple times. He even showed up in a short story during first edition AoS. I fear your information is years out of date.
Besides, since when has Grombrindal ever been depicted without an axe?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Have you been reading White Dwarf recently? He has definitely been seen since End Times. Multiple times. He even showed up in a short story during first edition AoS. I fear your information is years out of date.
You mean like those things I mention in my post? I did miss the story in first edition, but the recent WD Gromthi stories fit the same descriptions in the other known/suspected story appearances.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Besides, since when has Grombrindal ever been depicted without an axe?
If you've read them you should see it; Grombrindal is always an active participant. He goes out of his way to converse with people, give advice, or to fight foes. What he doesn't do is remain mostly silent in the background, only acting in the smallest way possible to tip fate. Grombrindal is also about intervening with individuals or small groups, he doesn't roll into diplomacy between states and change what an entire faction chooses to do.
The rumours of Kroak’s damage to Chamon (eee heeee!) appeared overstated. Certainly my take away was one of Acceptable Losses. Left unchecked, the Eater of Tomes would’ve left all the Realms in a far more dire situation.
Importantly, it’s sounding like Archaon might be out of Varanite entirely. Morathi stole a lot, and the only other mentioned reserve went up the Silver Tower.
I do wonder if the Eater of Tomes is properly gone, as it’s essence has been discorporated along with its physical body. Happily I think they left enough wiggle room either way.
Is it Grombrindal, or is it Grungni? Well I’m struggling to think whether they’ve been confirmed to be separate entities, especially in AoS. It seems entirely possible Grombrindal is a disguise within a disguise, a way for Grungni (who has been curiously absent so far) to walk amongst his people without overly interfering in their Free Will and right to self determination. He seems only to interfere when absolutely necessary, and even then is more nudging them to a course of action, rather than taking the reins.
And as ever, we’re left with Real Consequences. Be’lakors spoopy cloud of Chaos doesn’t seem to have been dispelled, so Vindicarum is still in peril.
It’s effect upon Stormcast is also kind of poorly defined. At one stage, it describes their essence being ripped apart. But it then describes their lightning gheists being tormented within the cloud thing. If it can be dispelled or dealt with, what might happen to those who fell victim?
IT does seem some reviews over-exaggerated what happened with the realm gates, a few realm gates were destroyed, but not all of them. Vindicarum's realm gate still stands, but how no one mentioned that it wasn't an entire stormhost, but chambers of the Celestial Warbringers.
Gardus Dies once which is actually pretty awesome. And poor poor Gallus my favorite stormcast. One of the few First Reforged not to have died through out the series, Lord Castellant of the Steel Souls. Awesome buddy to Gardus and interesting character. :( Perma Killed by Be'lakor and ripped in half. RIP Gallus.
Sure, SCE don’t have quite the poster boy dominance as Marines in 40K, but they’re still typically front and centre.
This series, so far (three volumes in in case someone in the future is reading this), has given other arguably more interesting because they’re less covered personalities come to the fore.
I’m almost certain we’ll end up with another Chamber being opened by the end of it. And I’m OK with that. What’s important is that the various pantheons are being widened, and in ways that feel like they matter.
And we’re possibly getting a whole new player in the game with whatever and whomever Kragnos is!
NinthMusketeer wrote: If you've read them you should see it; Grombrindal is always an active participant. He goes out of his way to converse with people, give advice, or to fight foes. What he doesn't do is remain mostly silent in the background, only acting in the smallest way possible to tip fate. Grombrindal is also about intervening with individuals or small groups, he doesn't roll into diplomacy between states and change what an entire faction chooses to do.
True but also in the K.Overlords White Dwarf story he fights Morathi
Spoiler:
- even getting in a dig about her not ageing well He does say that he can't hold her off for long.
Sure, SCE don’t have quite the poster boy dominance as Marines in 40K, but they’re still typically front and centre.
This series, so far (three volumes in in case someone in the future is reading this), has given other arguably more interesting because they’re less covered personalities come to the fore.
I’m almost certain we’ll end up with another Chamber being opened by the end of it. And I’m OK with that. What’s important is that the various pantheons are being widened, and in ways that feel like they matter.
And we’re possibly getting a whole new player in the game with whatever and whomever Kragnos is!
Plus stormhosts are crazy cool in most circumstances and their characters are still human. And they do lose... all the time.
Be'lakor is proof of that.
I am also wondering what else they will do for the pantheons, I know we are probably getting a new faction next edition which might be the 3rd edition big bad I hope.
So we saw Kragnos and holy gak he looks awesome. That now seals that I'm going to do destruction, just need to see if the rumors of a new Destruction army in the 3.0 box is true.
drbored wrote: I wonder if there's a God of Glue that's going to show up and try to stick everything back together again?
What, you haven't heard of Daplayas, God of Assembly?
Nah, in a dramatic twist, the Order gods will dig deep within themselves and overcome their ego's, arrogance, suspicions and natural inclination towards tomfoolery(mainly the Aelven gods) and come together in ways they never have. The bond of their friendship will be the glue that repairs the Broken Realms.
The real Broken Realms were the friends we made along the way.
I'm feeling a little apprehensive about Kragnos. I like that Destruction is getting another god-like entity besides Gork n' Mork, but having him be unaligned to any specific group doesn't sit right with me.
Yeah, I like it from that angle, but Gotrek has always been a wandering mercenary. Joins with an army to wreck face. Kragnos is supposed to be some sort of deity, and I guess having another army join him for whatever business he's getting down to could work... But he seems more like a Leader than Gotrek. Maybe the rules release will dispel those concerns.
Truthfully, it just seems like a lot of this dislike goes around to the idea that he doesn't "fit" with anything...but that's kind of the point of him.
He's a "god" of a dead race. He has some cred with the Destruction races as he chipped one of Gork/Mork's teeth and is all about that "Might Makes Right" lifestyle. They'll follow him as long as the fights come, and that's all that matters to both.
I want to wait and see if he comes with some special allegiance options before making a call on that specific point, but I can see what both sides are saying.
Thadin wrote: Kragnos is supposed to be some sort of deity,
Plenty of people are convinced of the same with Gotrek.
Thought it had been confirmed he was at least a demi-god now.
At the very least he's a living ancient, yeah. The Fyreslayers are convinced he's Grimnir reborn and Ghoulslayer ends with an entire civilization building a religion/cult around him. He's not big on either of those things.
Agreed that Destruction needs some better narrative representation right now that currently aligns better with the existing factions rather than rando Kragnos that basically just has their respect because he smashes good. An Avatar of Gork/Mork (though with Rogue Idols still being a thing, I'm not sure we would get that) would be nice, as would be some representation of the Great Maw for Ogors. It kind of sucks because OnG had really flavourful characters between pure killing machines like Grimgor, taktikul Orcs like Gorbad and Azhag, and tough gobbo gitz like Grom the Paunch and his sneakier equivalent Skarsnik. Gordrakk and Skargrotti just don't have that much going on to fill in these big shoes atm.
I mean, all of those were also one-dimensional orc caricatures, like the whole OnG faction. The only remotely interesting Orc/k character GW produced is Ghazkull, because he has traits beyond "He smash good". But sadly when you reduce a whole faction to "nameless barbarian horde that smashes everything in their way", it's hard to have any meaningful characters. Gw orcs stayed in the same spot they were 30 years ago, NPC race to fill out the space between chaos villains turning up to be the real threat.
Destruction needs a desperate overhaul because right now they're paper cut-outs of an alliance.
The Gloomspite novel did some good wrk in mkaing this aspect of Destruction really dark and unpleasent - hoping the author does more Mortal Realms novels
Cronch wrote: I mean, all of those were also one-dimensional orc caricatures, like the whole OnG faction. The only remotely interesting Orc/k character GW produced is Ghazkull, because he has traits beyond "He smash good". But sadly when you reduce a whole faction to "nameless barbarian horde that smashes everything in their way", it's hard to have any meaningful characters. Gw orcs stayed in the same spot they were 30 years ago, NPC race to fill out the space between chaos villains turning up to be the real threat.
Destruction needs a desperate overhaul because right now they're paper cut-outs of an alliance.
Ummmmm, I GREATLY disagree with that assessment. Gorbad is basically the Ghazzy of WFB in the sense that he knew how to use combined arms tactics and pretty much brought the Empire to its knees with his siege of Altdorf, he even managed to kill the existing Emperor of the time through his tactical gamble of Wyverns. Azhag was another significant warboss in the sense that he had the strength of will to actually resist the Great Necromancer despite not being a Shaman himself, and was able to contend with Nagash's attempts at taking over his mind, which is why he died to begin with. Skarsnik had an entire book dedicated to him in BL that helps flesh out his rise to power as one of the most kunning Goblin warbosses in recent history, achieving to both outwit the Skaven and the Dwarves in the 3-way fight in one of the biggest dwarf holds in the Old World. Similarly, Grom the Paunch's is another exception to Gobbo Warboss history in that he was the peer of Orc Warbosses in personal size and prowess due to his unprecedented act of being able to eat uncooked troll flesh, not to mention he's one of the few who managed to actually ravage Ulthuan rather than the usual oomie or dwarven lands, which says something given that Goblins are notoriously fearful of elves.
Even in 40k, I would say you're wrong, since the lore behind Wazdakka Gutsmek, Nazdreg, even the reintrodued Zogrod Wortsnagga, all show a different aspect of orks that goes beyond just "I kill things good".
looking undead though? That's why you play Bonereapers.
I did miss the story in first edition, but the recent 
