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40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:18:47


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


How do?

New info up on Warhammer Community, with the promise of more to come.

Warhammer Community]
As you’ll have no doubt seen in the recent Warhammer Preview Online, followers of a new greenskin ‘subkultur’ have arrived to bring their own brand of krumpin’ to the galaxy. Called the Beast Snaggas, these master squig-breeders ride to war on their ferocious red steeds,* kicking, biting, and stabbing anything within their reach.

Just because they eschew the trukks and bikes of their Speed Freek cousins’ armies, doesn’t mean the Beast Snaggas are averse to using some of the local Mekboyz’s creations. Think of them as pro-squig, rather than anti-thinkin’. After all, it’s rare to find an Ork who wouldn’t appreciate how you can make a humble spear louder and killier by adding rocket boosters to it.

Their appreciation for ‘da old ways’, and their disregard for more complex Orky technology, leads many of the Snakebite clan to become Beast Snaggas, although their ilk can be found across the entire spectrum of Ork society.** Even a no-nonsense Goff can look at a squighog’s shockingly large teeth and figure out how best to apply them to some poor git’s face.

The Beast Snagga boyz themselves are hulking mountains of muscle even by regular Ork standards – spending a lifetime chasing down and grappling with ravenous beasts breeds particularly hardy individuals. Even their Gretchin underlings are a smidge braver than usual,*** as those affectionately dubbed ‘saddlegitz’ hold on for dear life and take whatever swings they can.

Stay tuned to learn more about the savage Beast Snaggas and the ingenious ways they use giant, red mouth-monsters. In the meantime, prepare for the Waaagh! by grabbing some of their Speed Freek rivals in a Boomdakka Snazzwagon or Shokkjump Dragsta. You can even bridge the gap between the two subkulturs with a Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy – although knowing the Orks, they’re just as likely to fight both sides.

Don’t forget, there’s a wealth of Orky stories for you to brush up on too. Just ask Makari – he’ll tell you exactly what you should be reading right now.

* Being born red means they make naturally fast mounts, you see.

** If such a thing really exists.

*** Which isn’t saying much.




[Thumb - AF32C9B3-8FE2-4F26-905D-5995B1055BAA.jpeg]


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:23:16


Post by: lord_blackfang


Nope still not feeling those sculpts


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:25:54


Post by: BertBert


Doesn't look like it belongs into 40k tbh.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:28:39


Post by: Sterling191


I am entirely here for the HZD Orks.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:28:42


Post by: GaroRobe


The heads do look more AOS-y than the orks we're used to. But I'm game.

But seriously GW. You're releasing an army of Orks on squigs, but we still don't have a kroot army or exodites.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:29:26


Post by: Malika2


I love em!!!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:38:39


Post by: GaroRobe


 BertBert wrote:
Doesn't look like it belongs into 40k tbh.




I mean, it's not too outlandish for 40k. No models, but warboars and cyboars have been a thing in ork lore forever. The only real difference is that we've got squig boars, and there are 1000s of different squig varieties (including four legged squiggoths). Also given the recent GW boar creatures are these guys, I think we're lucky, all things considered.



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:40:49


Post by: Orkimedez_Atalaya


I am glad to have more unit options but I am not buying these. Just need to know their base size and load out


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:43:49


Post by: BertBert




No, absolutely. I'm aware of cyboars but there is not enough cyber in those boars for my taste. 40k orks are scrap mechanics and those look a bit too clean to me. Nothing a bit of kitbashing couldn't fix mind you, but then again, we have bikes and trikes to fill that particular niche already. Maybe they will make more sense in the larger context of the other beast snaggas.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:45:30


Post by: Kanluwen


 GaroRobe wrote:
The heads do look more AOS-y than the orks we're used to. But I'm game.

But seriously GW. You're releasing an army of Orks on squigs, but we still don't have a kroot army or exodites.

Where did they say it's an army?

The article today points towards them being part of Orks, not their own schtick.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:52:46


Post by: Grimskul


I like em personally, because I'm always game for squig units since they're pretty underrepresented in 40k. However, I hope this doesn't restrict them from properly updating the last few kits that need a plastic makeover in the Ork range (looking at you deffkoptas, kommandos, and tankbustas).

Also, I feel bad for IG because we're basically getting Ork rough riders while IG's (barring DKoK) got squatted.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:54:19


Post by: posermcbogus


 Kanluwen wrote:
 GaroRobe wrote:
The heads do look more AOS-y than the orks we're used to. But I'm game.

But seriously GW. You're releasing an army of Orks on squigs, but we still don't have a kroot army or exodites.

Where did they say it's an army?

The article today points towards them being part of Orks, not their own schtick.


Warhammer Community wrote:
As you’ll have no doubt seen in the recent Warhammer Preview Online, followers of a new greenskin ‘subkultur’ have arrived to bring their own brand of krumpin’ to the galaxy. Called the Beast Snaggas...


These big soft details are really giving off a Fisher-Price. Hope GW manages to pick up the ball with the rest of these, kinda like the units teased in the trailer, but not super hopeful...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 14:57:34


Post by: Kanluwen


Warhammer Community wrote:Their appreciation for ‘da old ways’, and their disregard for more complex Orky technology, leads many of the Snakebite clan to become Beast Snaggas, although their ilk can be found across the entire spectrum of Ork society.** Even a no-nonsense Goff can look at a squighog’s shockingly large teeth and figure out how best to apply them to some poor git’s face.


That's why I'm saying it sounds more like an expansion to the Ork range rather than its own army and asking for anything about them specifically calling out them as a new army.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 15:11:57


Post by: posermcbogus


It's a Klan, Kan.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 15:13:54


Post by: Horla


I don’t play Orks but I think these look like great fun. Also bodes well for Ork players as any teases of new units seem to indicate a new Codex soon. (And Brian from Tabletop Titans dropped a hint around the time of the first reveal of these guys that he was painting up a new Ork army and that he only starts things when there’s a reason...)


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 15:20:13


Post by: Laughing Man


 posermcbogus wrote:
It's a Klan, Kan.

Except they're not a Clan. They talk a ton about how all sorts of different Clans can include them.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 15:20:39


Post by: Ghaz


 posermcbogus wrote:
It's a Klan, Kan.

From page 124 of Codex: Orks:

If your army is Battle-forged, all <CLAN> units in ORK Detachments (excluding those in Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain a Clan Kultur, so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same clan.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 15:25:17


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 posermcbogus wrote:
It's a Klan, Kan.
A subculture of Orks includes: Speed Freaks, Fly Boyz (Often a subculture of Speed Freaks), Stormboyz, Burna Boyz... Typically if an Ork takes something too far, it's probably a subculture of some sort.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 15:26:52


Post by: Cronch


They're probably the same kind of expansion as KoS is for Orks.

The model looks very...weird? Did they let a bunch of newbie sculptors do some orks, cause it's strangely soft and blobby.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 16:19:01


Post by: zend


Looks like an Ironjawz model with a few 40K bits.

RIP Orks.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 16:23:03


Post by: Dysartes


 posermcbogus wrote:
It's a Klan, Kan.


I thought that was a dance...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 17:16:37


Post by: ceorron


I like them, I like them, not bad.

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GaroRobe wrote:

I mean, it's not too outlandish for 40k. No models, but warboars and cyboars have been a thing in ork lore forever. The only real difference is that we've got squig boars, and there are 1000s of different squig varieties (including four legged squiggoths). Also given the recent GW boar creatures are these guys, I think we're lucky, all things considered.




Second, they look bad. This looks better tbh.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 17:34:35


Post by: bullyboy


All these terrible models for 40k is certainly easier on my bank account. They really haven't shown a single 40k model to get excited about this year.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 17:38:01


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I really don't know what they're doing with Orks.

Is this it's own Codex? Is this the new release for the Ork Codex?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 17:56:20


Post by: Gratlugg


I'm not sure how edgy people were expecting a squig unit to be. Other than the usual washed out feeling and cartoony paint job the studio chose to give it, the model looks great to me.

Can anyone who hates this point to a sculpt they actually like? Maybe my tastes are just different. In Sisters/DEldar releases it seems like it's just 'not Victoria's Secret model enough for me', sentiment wise.

But I like this boy, the face on particular is dynamic as opposed to static. So is the squig, though I think the photo isnt doing the leg proportions justice.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:02:26


Post by: bullyboy


Maybe people just don't like the entire concept. The model still looks terrible for me though, just not my style at all for 40k.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:09:11


Post by: Domandi


I am so excited for all these! Give me ALL THE SQUIGS!!!

I think they look amazing. I am glad the orks are keeping things a bit silly. I can't wait to see what other people are doing with their paint jobs.

This is a unit I always thought they should have. I loved the boar riders, but it made more sense to me that they would ride squigs, not boars(in 40k). The lore has always said they have squigs of all types from food up to beasts of burden and beasts of war.

By Mork n Gork,I can't wait to see what else they come out with, and I am PRAYING they let us use basic squigs as a troop type.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:10:14


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really don't know what they're doing with Orks.

Is this it's own Codex? Is this the new release for the Ork Codex?


Probably a supplement linked force to the be folded into the main Ork Codex? The mention in the article that even a Goff can become a Beast Snagga suggests they’ll work within the existing clan system?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:16:44


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really don't know what they're doing with Orks.

Is this it's own Codex? Is this the new release for the Ork Codex?


I'm guessing the units will be universal, with beast snaggas being a new sub culture option like pyromaniaks or tinheads with the psychic awakening stuff all rolled into the main book (and hopefully most kustom jobs rolled into the relevant units)


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:18:29


Post by: Rob Lee


It's too much Age of Sigmar Savage Orruk looking for me. Not enough Ork.

It's almost as though the sculptors were doing some AoS stuff and couldn't make much of a separation in their heads from what they were doing for AoS and what they're doing for 40k.


Suppose they'd look OK in a Snakebite army, if that's still a thing or is going to be a thing again.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:25:01


Post by: Ghaz


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really don't know what they're doing with Orks.

Is this it's own Codex? Is this the new release for the Ork Codex?

Probably a supplement linked force to the be folded into the main Ork Codex? The mention in the article that even a Goff can become a Beast Snagga suggests they’ll work within the existing clan system?

Or at the very least they'll be something along the lines of Freebooterz, having been kicked out of their clan but can be included in an ORK Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Clan Kultur.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:25:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I still think a chunk of the dislike is the Ork being the same shade as the weedy little Grot riding behind.

It’s just not an Orky shade of green.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:27:23


Post by: LunarSol


I love squigs and I love Orks but I don't care for this at all.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 18:59:11


Post by: Egyptian Space Zombie


I wonder if this is a hint about the future of boar boyz in general. Squighogs are a lot easier to protect in terms of IP. Maybe I need to get those savage orc boar boyz for my fantasy army sooner rather than later.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:03:36


Post by: Cronch


I think I get what doesn't click for me with this. It doesn't look like a squig enough, it's just a bald board with a funny face.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:30:48


Post by: jaredb


These models look great, I can't wait to see the rest of the range. I'm also digging the white armour with red markings.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:34:23


Post by: GaroRobe


 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
I wonder if this is a hint about the future of boar boyz in general. Squighogs are a lot easier to protect in terms of IP. Maybe I need to get those savage orc boar boyz for my fantasy army sooner rather than later.


I think savage orruk boar boyz are safe, but only because GW doesn't plan on updating that line for awhile. Meanwhile, the similar (and slightly superior) boar boyz got squatted with the other normal orcs, and goregruntas were introduced for ironjawz. (Though, you'd think wolf riders would also be on the cutting board and they got new models for Underworlds. And space ork boars could probably be copyright protected.)


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:38:12


Post by: jaredb


The three models released for underworlds are not riding wolves, they are snarlfang riders. Ip all good to go.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:47:11


Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I still think a chunk of the dislike is the Ork being the same shade as the weedy little Grot riding behind.

It’s just not an Orky shade of green.


It looks like his son that he's training to be a warrior just like daddy.

"Get on the boar BOY!"


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:48:05


Post by: mortar_crew


There is absolutely nothing I like about these models,
and I bought orks models
since the original ork raiders box...

Same with the (horrible) tankbustaz I think,
mechanical bits here and there, and sub-par sculpt
for the ork itself.

If there is a whole range of these after the buggies
debacle, I think my wallet is safe as far as greenskinz
are concerned.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:50:02


Post by: Oguhmek


I'm carefully optimistic. The models look nice - the paint scheme is a bit... bland? maybe, but has potential I think, at least if you dirty them up a bit and maybe add some gubbinz to make them more cyboarnetic.

It's nice how GW is picking up old concepts, and because I love the Orks, I am thankful for all the new models they get - but to be honest, I would rather see some new basic Astra Militarum or Craftworld Eldar kits, they need it more than the Orks do.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:59:41


Post by: Olthannon


I like the squighog and I like the grot, it's actually the ork rider that I don't like. Maybe it's just the camera angle? But just doesn't look right. And neither does the paint job. New paint job and hopefully better heads will make those models look better.

So are these different from Snakebites? Am I missing something there?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 19:59:47


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


As someone who is about to start Snakebite Orks these are great and exactly what I missed about 40K Orks. Feral Orks have been an afterthought in 40K since... 3rd Edition I guess?
I can't wait to mix these with boar boyz and other Squig units (Kromlech released some Squig - Killa Kanz last year that will work great side by side with these).
As to the question of how they tie in- psychic Awakening made subkultures return, so they aren't a Klan, but a subkulture, like speed Freaks, Grot Mobs, feral Orks, flyboyz, pyromaniacs etc. These all have rules already. So far they replace the Klan, I'd bet in the new Codex you can combine your Klan with a subkulture, so you have Snakebite feral Orks, or Goff Beasts snaggas. Question is whether these will be based on detachments full of one subkulture.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 20:48:07


Post by: ceorron


 Ghaz wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really don't know what they're doing with Orks.

Is this it's own Codex? Is this the new release for the Ork Codex?

Probably a supplement linked force to the be folded into the main Ork Codex? The mention in the article that even a Goff can become a Beast Snagga suggests they’ll work within the existing clan system?

Or at the very least they'll be something along the lines of Freebooterz, having been kicked out of their clan but can be included in an ORK Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Clan Kultur.


The way the warhammer website made it out the Beast Snagga is just the name of the unit. They just, for some reason, GW made them out to be an entire army in the reveal.

Snakebite will still be the clan kulture, and most likely you will be able to have Snakebite Beast Snaggas.

Linking to the original reveal. If the reveal is to be believe there will most likely be 4 or 5 other "new" GW products for orks to follow this. My guess a squig pulled "tank", squig squad, warboss, warboss in mega armour, painboy(?) with metal legs.

Take a look.




40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:09:30


Post by: ImAGeek


 ceorron wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really don't know what they're doing with Orks.

Is this it's own Codex? Is this the new release for the Ork Codex?

Probably a supplement linked force to the be folded into the main Ork Codex? The mention in the article that even a Goff can become a Beast Snagga suggests they’ll work within the existing clan system?

Or at the very least they'll be something along the lines of Freebooterz, having been kicked out of their clan but can be included in an ORK Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Clan Kultur.


The way the warhammer website made it out the Beast Snagga is just the name of the unit. They just, for some reason, GW made them out to be an entire army in the reveal.

Snakebite will still be the clan kulture, and most likely you will be able to have Snakebite Beast Snaggas.

Linking to the original reveal. If the reveal is to be believe there will most likely be 4 or 5 other "new" GW products for orks to follow this. My guess a squig pulled "tank", squig squad, warboss, warboss in mega armour, painboy(?) with metal legs.

Take a look.




The unit are called ‘Squighog Boyz’. Beast Snagga’s appears to be the wider subkulture.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:11:39


Post by: ceorron


Interesting...

Reminds me of..



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:15:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Given the same trailer seems to show a conventional Warboss in Mega Armour, chances it’s a dual kit for variation, rather than two separate kits?

It also seems to be promise new Boyz, with shoulder mounted ‘Eavy Weapons more reminiscent of the Rogue Trader era.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:16:00


Post by: ImAGeek


It just seems to be like Speed Freeks to me. Not a whole new army, but just Orks of a certain mindset who can be in any klan.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:17:49


Post by: Platuan4th


 ImAGeek wrote:
It just seems to be like Speed Freeks to me. Not a whole new army, but just Orks of a certain mindset who can be in any klan.


That's what a Subkulture is.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:19:11


Post by: ImAGeek


 Platuan4th wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
It just seems to be like Speed Freeks to me. Not a whole new army, but just Orks of a certain mindset who can be in any klan.


That's what a Subkulture is.


Yeah, which is what these seem to be. But some people seem to think they’re a whole new army.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:49:27


Post by: JohnnyHell


 ImAGeek wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
It just seems to be like Speed Freeks to me. Not a whole new army, but just Orks of a certain mindset who can be in any klan.


That's what a Subkulture is.


Yeah, which is what these seem to be. But some people seem to think they’re a whole new army.


I mean, they’d be wrong. Even the scant amount of info we have says these beast snaggas pop up in all Clans.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:52:20


Post by: ceorron


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Given the same trailer seems to show a conventional Warboss in Mega Armour, chances it’s a dual kit for variation, rather than two separate kits?

It also seems to be promise new Boyz, with shoulder mounted ‘Eavy Weapons more reminiscent of the Rogue Trader era.


Could be multipart warboss kit. But my guess is separate kits, based on GW's recent minis.

Don't know about the new ork box. Maybe but wasn't it recently that they were redone?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 21:53:10


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


I don’t care for these guys... I think it might have worked if squig mounts looked more.. well, squig-like. Or more Squiggoth(Godzilla)-like.
Or just boars with mecha gubbins. This sculpt suffers from a serious case of CAD gone wrong.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 22:00:31


Post by: Irbis


 zend wrote:
Looks like an Ironjawz model with a few 40K bits.

""Ironjawz"" when they have literally ZERO of IJ design cues, don't wear IJ armor, and have 40K weapons and cybernetics.

Well, they are both kinda green, I suppose

What's next, Ossiarch BRs are AoS Eldar?

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
I wonder if this is a hint about the future of boar boyz in general. Squighogs are a lot easier to protect in terms of IP.

Or maybe, just maybe, ork riding terran animals makes no sense whatsoever and it has nothing to do with ol' bogeyman, the IP?

After all, it's not like every single ork knockoff maker didn't steal squigz already, despite them being wholly original GW creation...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 22:54:18


Post by: Mentlegen324


I really don't get the complaints about "It doesn't fit 40k Orks". What is it about them that seems out of place? Squiggs are a big part of the Ork culture and they take all sorts of different shapes and sizes, and less technologically-included Orks were already a thing with Feral Orks.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 22:58:15


Post by: cody.d.


Yeah, gonna be honest i'm expecting the beast snaggas to just be a keyword alongside "Speedfreaks" or "walkerz" i'd be surprised if the keyword itself comes with any actual rules but is just used for stratagems.

On the other hand I could be wrong, maybe it will come with an additional rule or two. But then I would like speedfreaks to get a small rule or two as well. On top of all that we don't know what is gonna happen regarding our Core.

We're seeing the admech datasheets being leaked right now so that's close to release. Just keep yer eyes pealed for any repackaged ork kits.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 23:13:13


Post by: Voss


 JohnnyHell wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
It just seems to be like Speed Freeks to me. Not a whole new army, but just Orks of a certain mindset who can be in any klan.


That's what a Subkulture is.


Yeah, which is what these seem to be. But some people seem to think they’re a whole new army.


I mean, they’d be wrong. Even the scant amount of info we have says these beast snaggas pop up in all Clans.


Yeah, this has been clear since the reveal. This is 'Kult of Squigs,' and Beastsnaggas will go in the same Keyword slot as Speed Freeks, and this Squighog Riders will be one of several units. <Clan> will still be a freely chosen Faction keyword.

If you want Bad Moon or even Freebootas Beastsnaggas, its not a problem. [Though as always for ork melee units, Evil Sunz is best. Hopefully that will change when the new codex happens- the Clan Kulturs need an overhaul- Evil Sunz are off theme, Deathskulls give way too much, and Snakebites (and others) way too little]


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/05 23:51:09


Post by: General Kroll


Love them.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 00:22:39


Post by: Tastyfish


Defintely think a more natural or patterned body on the squighog would change a few minds.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 01:13:57


Post by: streetsamurai


Love them a lot lesss than i think i would. Something about them just don't cut it


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 01:23:02


Post by: cody.d.


I'm curious if it's that sorta thing a lotta models have. Where the initial images look garbage but the models in your hand look much much better. A few of the imperial vehicles had that in earlier editions.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 02:17:16


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
I wonder if this is a hint about the future of boar boyz in general.
GW already ditched boars in favour of "Gore-Gruntas", so I think we already know what they're doing.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 02:51:30


Post by: streetsamurai


Must say that the aos boar boys looks so much better...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 03:09:19


Post by: Mr. Grey


I really would have probably preferred actual cyboars to make a comeback, the more I think about it. They could have even used a similar sculpt to the Gore-gruntas, except with tons of cybernetics and mechanical bits all over the place.

I also don't like the ...rocket.. spear? I had to look twice because it wasn't clear at all on first glance that it's supposed to be a rocket spear. Not a fan of the ork's face either - the sculpts for ork heads are starting to drift more and more in a direction that I don't like. If they were more "3rd edition Brian Nelson ork" it'd be great. The proportions on these new ones are all wrong.

That said... I like squigs, and it'd be cool to see more squig stuff in general in 40k. I never understood why orks couldn't take squig herds.



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 03:31:25


Post by: Voss


I also don't like the ...rocket.. spear? I had to look twice because it wasn't clear at all on first glance that it's supposed to be a rocket spear.

Didn't realize it either. Now I'm sad, because it just means they'd have cauterized stumps for hands.

cody.d wrote:I'm curious if it's that sorta thing a lotta models have. Where the initial images look garbage but the models in your hand look much much better. A few of the imperial vehicles had that in earlier editions.

I'm baffled by this (and honestly don't really believe it- to me most models look like the images they post). They almost entirely sell models by the strength of the photographs; if they're bad at photographing models to the degree people claim (that the physical models are so much better), that's shockingly bad salesmanship, and they need to hire someone who grasps the basic principles of lighting and background.

And that's not even taking into account that many people can't or don't paint (and sometimes struggle with assembly), so 'in person,' odds are really good that any model is going to look worse than the official pics.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 03:49:15


Post by: cody.d.


Voss wrote:
I also don't like the ...rocket.. spear? I had to look twice because it wasn't clear at all on first glance that it's supposed to be a rocket spear.

Didn't realize it either. Now I'm sad, because it just means they'd have cauterized stumps for hands.

cody.d wrote:I'm curious if it's that sorta thing a lotta models have. Where the initial images look garbage but the models in your hand look much much better. A few of the imperial vehicles had that in earlier editions.

I'm baffled by this (and honestly don't really believe it- to me most models look like the images they post). They almost entirely sell models by the strength of the photographs; if they're bad at photographing models to the degree people claim (that the physical models are so much better), that's shockingly bad salesmanship, and they need to hire someone who grasps the basic principles of lighting and background.

And that's not even taking into account that many people can't or don't paint (and sometimes struggle with assembly), so 'in person,' odds are really good that any model is going to look worse than the official pics.


There is a bit of a difference between seeing a picture of a model and having it in your hands or even on a display shelf. I've been in the hobby for a while and can remember a few instances like the stormraven where people despised it's initial pictures but after a while that settled down to an "eh it's not so bad, i'm find with it." Just feels like initial reactions based on a single image/angle seems to be occasionally cause over reactions.

Upon saying that. I do sorta hope that the boyz come with helmet options. Or faceplate/masks to match the squigs iron job. But I'm more a helmet over bare headed sort when building models anyway.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 04:12:28


Post by: Either/Or


I wish they had a bit more obvious tech to show them as part of the 41st millennium. The current models don’t really look more high tech than Kharadron overlord stuff. I may be in the minority, but I do like the squigs instead of boars. The boars always felt very direct from fantasy vs these that fit 40K ork shtick. The squigs look like Berkshire pigs (aka the tastiest type of pig) and I just imagine them to be delicious. Could ork ramen be a thing?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 04:27:12


Post by: Da Butcha


I like the concept, and I like the models. I like the fact that it is a subkultur, both because it isn't replacing the klans, and the existence of a new subkultur indicates they aren't killing off the current subkultur rules (which I really like for variety--do you field an army from one klan, or multiple klan paint jobs in a subkultur?).


I just HATE the fact that the beast snaggas are 'larger, burlier' orks. Not only does this completely contradict what we have known about ork society for multiple codexes--that orks rise in status as they get bigger--but, more importantly, it signals that these orks aren't likely to be cross-compatible with virtually all the other orks that we already have--which is a huge, huge shame for ork modelling enthusiasts.

I don't like the fact that Beast Snaggas seem to be breaking the boy/skarboy/nob/warboss 'size/status' schema. Maybe that will be okay. Maybe any boy able to 'tame' and ride a squig is basically a skarboy anyway.

But the insane level of cross-compatibility across the ork line has been nothing but good for the ork player. It has made easy, joyful, exuberant conversions commonplace. The Speed Freeks vehicles were awesome, but sadly weak in their modularity. This seems to have embraced that trend, so I view the new models with a bit of trepidation as well as enthusiasm.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 04:53:49


Post by: insaniak


 Olthannon wrote:

So are these different from Snakebites? Am I missing something there?

My impression is that 'Beast Snaggas' is just what they're calling Feral Orks now. They mention in the article that Snakebites have a strong inclination towards becoming Beast Snaggas, which would be in the same way as Evil Sunz tend to be Speed Freaks.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 04:57:04


Post by: Jidmah


 insaniak wrote:
 Olthannon wrote:

So are these different from Snakebites? Am I missing something there?

My impression is that 'Beast Snaggas' is just what they're calling Feral Orks now. They mention in the article that Snakebites have a strong inclination towards becoming Beast Snaggas, which would be in the same way as Evil Sunz tend to be Speed Freaks.


Yeah, "Beast Snaggas" is just the new copyright-able name for feral orks.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 05:00:30


Post by: insaniak


Da Butcha wrote:

But the insane level of cross-compatibility across the ork line has been nothing but good for the ork player. It has made easy, joyful, exuberant conversions commonplace. The Speed Freeks vehicles were awesome, but sadly weak in their modularity. This seems to have embraced that trend, so I view the new models with a bit of trepidation as well as enthusiasm.

Yup, the fact that they chose to release six different buggy kits instead of one kit with optional components, combined with their current approach to rules design, was a fairly strong indicator that GW aren't interested in conversions any more. Add in their current sculpting and tooling approach which favours detail over modularity, and you're left with a pretty clear statement that their aim is to provide models that can be built and used straight out of the box and conversion is something that, while you're welcome to do it, is just not something they're taking into consideration when designing models anymore.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 06:08:37


Post by: Jidmah


To be fair none of the buggies are more or less modular than the trukk kit, which ork player have converted into all kinds of things. The only thing that's done differently are the orks on the buggies, the vehicles themselves can easily exchange stuff among each other.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 07:18:29


Post by: tneva82


Voss wrote:
I also don't like the ...rocket.. spear? I had to look twice because it wasn't clear at all on first glance that it's supposed to be a rocket spear.

Didn't realize it either. Now I'm sad, because it just means they'd have cauterized stumps for hands.

cody.d wrote:I'm curious if it's that sorta thing a lotta models have. Where the initial images look garbage but the models in your hand look much much better. A few of the imperial vehicles had that in earlier editions.

I'm baffled by this (and honestly don't really believe it- to me most models look like the images they post). They almost entirely sell models by the strength of the photographs; if they're bad at photographing models to the degree people claim (that the physical models are so much better), that's shockingly bad salesmanship, and they need to hire someone who grasps the basic principles of lighting and background.

And that's not even taking into account that many people can't or don't paint (and sometimes struggle with assembly), so 'in person,' odds are really good that any model is going to look worse than the official pics.


Paint job differs. For many gw style isn't appealing so remove paint job and replace it with different and it appears better.

Also miniatures are designed in heroic scale which works optimally looking from game distance. Zoomed up it exaggerates proportion oddities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Da Butcha wrote:

I just HATE the fact that the beast snaggas are 'larger, burlier' orks. Not only does this completely contradict what we have known about ork society for multiple codexes--that orks rise in status as they get bigger--but, more importantly, it signals that these orks aren't likely to be cross-compatible with virtually all the other orks that we already have--which is a huge, huge shame for ork modelling enthusiasts.

.


Well either you get no new models or you lose cross compatibility. Gw stopped that long time ago.

That's why not all are thrilled with idea of new boyz. Higher price, no customization. Heavy weapons all on same body etc.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 07:27:17


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


Im in love with them, I recently started a Ork army, which is a large mixture of savage ork models from AoS and some other normal Orkz which some savage bitz mixed onto them
(As deffskulls so I can boast the war paint I've painted on can let the Ork headbutt a lascannon and WIN)

This is right up my street and will awesome next to my boar boy bikers


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 10:07:14


Post by: BertBert


Voss wrote:


cody.d wrote:I'm curious if it's that sorta thing a lotta models have. Where the initial images look garbage but the models in your hand look much much better. A few of the imperial vehicles had that in earlier editions.

I'm baffled by this (and honestly don't really believe it- to me most models look like the images they post). They almost entirely sell models by the strength of the photographs; if they're bad at photographing models to the degree people claim (that the physical models are so much better), that's shockingly bad salesmanship, and they need to hire someone who grasps the basic principles of lighting and background.

And that's not even taking into account that many people can't or don't paint (and sometimes struggle with assembly), so 'in person,' odds are really good that any model is going to look worse than the official pics.


To me this is usually an attempt at deflecting criticism. You can easily tell how a sculpt looks, even despite the "bad" studio paint job. One notable exception are faces, where the past has shown that the studio paint job turns women into abominations on a regular basis.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 10:14:37


Post by: skeleton


ive got a big ork army but i think snakebite's dont belong in 40K they are leftover from the old world. they would die before making contact with the enemy


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 10:30:39


Post by: Jidmah


When you are running screaming at an opponent as fast as possible, it doesn't really matter whether you are wielding a spear or a chain sword while shooting your slugga into the air to make some noise.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 10:38:36


Post by: Oguhmek


Yeah, 40k has this whole "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword" thing for many units. The beast snaggas are hardly the only (or the worst) offender.

Trench warfare when you have orbital bombardment capabilities? Yeah...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 11:16:10


Post by: tneva82


 skeleton wrote:
ive got a big ork army but i think snakebite's dont belong in 40K they are leftover from the old world. they would die before making contact with the enemy


How's so? Because enemy got guns? Same applies to berserkers, like half the orks army, half the tyranids army, assault marines, death company, space wolves...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 11:32:58


Post by: Tyranid Horde


Personally not a fan of the sculpt, but they make sense to have in Orks as a race, and fit nicely into Snakebites.

I wonder how my opinion may change when something other than the 'eavy metal is used.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/06 16:32:02


Post by: Snake Tortoise


I like the concept and it seems like it should be a fun unit for the table. Fast (10" movement hopefully), the rocket spear seems like it would have ranged and melee capabilities, they should be somewhat durable and I imagine they'll be solid in CC.

The face I'm not keen on but with a more classic skin paint job perhaps it'll be fine.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 19:05:33


Post by: Goreshrek


Hopefully they will have more than a wet t-shirt save and more than one wound. Orks don't need another unit that is auto-deleted.
Wish I had kept my old metal boarboyz...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 19:09:30


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Goreshrek wrote:
Hopefully they will have more than a wet t-shirt save and more than one wound. Orks don't need another unit that is auto-deleted.
Wish I had kept my old metal boarboyz...


Only Marines get that silly!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 19:16:51


Post by: blaktoof


I am thinking they will be T6 but with a 5+ save. Maybe 3-4 wounds. I am basing this on the T+1 increase in the FW IA for 9th that orks received for non vehicle models. I am also assuming a basic ork boy will be T5.

Basically a wet t-shirt with some random bits of scrap metal bolted on.

I also agree this is just a re-launch of feral orks, but with models instead of 3rd party models/bits or conversions. I think they look orky and unique, orks in the lore exist in cycles that often start out mostly feral as they acquire scrap and oddboyz start appearing and making things, so lore wise there should be low-tek orks even in 40k. I actually really like how they have some high-tek bits on them as they look like they are transitioning from low-tek to more standard 40k orky "high-tek". These are basically angry ork luddites.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 20:13:44


Post by: JSG


I wonder if we'll see this trend of taking an Ork klan Kulture and exploring it via a subkulture continue. We've had not necessarily Evil Sunz and now not necessarily Snake Bites. Next we might get Sneaky Gitz who aren't necessarily Blood Axes but are always the sneakiest gitz in whatever klan they're in.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 20:21:32


Post by: GaroRobe


 skeleton wrote:
ive got a big ork army but i think snakebite's dont belong in 40K they are leftover from the old world. they would die before making contact with the enemy


Idk. Orks have had boars in the fluff since forever. Orks are also a horde enemy, so they've probably got other units to serve as chaff and distract the enemy enough for the beast snaggas to get into close combat. Plus melee calvary totally exists in 40k. Look at the DKK death riders. They have just spears (not even custode spears which fire ammo)


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 22:02:04


Post by: cody.d.


 GaroRobe wrote:
 skeleton wrote:
ive got a big ork army but i think snakebite's dont belong in 40K they are leftover from the old world. they would die before making contact with the enemy


Idk. Orks have had boars in the fluff since forever. Orks are also a horde enemy, so they've probably got other units to serve as chaff and distract the enemy enough for the beast snaggas to get into close combat. Plus melee calvary totally exists in 40k. Look at the DKK death riders. They have just spears (not even custode spears which fire ammo)


One question i'm curious about is are they more like javelins? Meant to be thrown and use the rockets for better penetration on targets. Still keen to see more of the models, or the rules, or the sprue. Seems like Sisters are confirmed to be next and are coming rather soon. (updated sheets have been seen) so maybe GW is picking up it's release schedule to pre covid levels again?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 22:26:19


Post by: Horla


cody.d. wrote:
One question i'm curious about is are they more like javelins? Meant to be thrown and use the rockets for better penetration on targets.

Could be like the one-shot Tachyon Arrow for Necrons, one shot but a doozy if it hits.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 22:30:59


Post by: cody.d.


It would fit the MO of a few of the buggies. Where it has main weapons then a few subweapons fired by riders. Reckon it's possible the grots will get a grenade toss, the boy will chuck a spear then the squig does the CCW attacks?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/07 22:34:57


Post by: Tastyfish


 GaroRobe wrote:
 skeleton wrote:
ive got a big ork army but i think snakebite's dont belong in 40K they are leftover from the old world. they would die before making contact with the enemy


Idk. Orks have had boars in the fluff since forever. Orks are also a horde enemy, so they've probably got other units to serve as chaff and distract the enemy enough for the beast snaggas to get into close combat. Plus melee calvary totally exists in 40k. Look at the DKK death riders. They have just spears (not even custode spears which fire ammo)


I just like seeing the glimpse of the Orkisystem that gets set up once most of the older life has been eaten or burnt away. Orks are a ecological catastrophe of invasive species that kick start an entire ecosystem to colonise the rad soaked ruin of whatever the hulk landed in, that's far more dangerous than just the burly green guys with guns. They're terra/orkiforming the planet so that it'll never be the same.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 11:39:04


Post by: ceorron


As a guess for the stats it is likley to be standard orky stat line.

M 10", WS 4+, BS 5+, S 4, T 5, W 4, A 4, Ld 7, Sv 6+

Could be better than that tbh. Conservative estimate.

Maybe faster???


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 12:26:40


Post by: skeleton


al the other factions that charge the enemy headlong have (power)armour and carry guns even the khorn beserkers and the deathcompagny to.
DKK are forge world and dont count , even the gaurd lost them


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 12:35:38


Post by: Blackie


Godawful, both the concept and the sculpt. Easy pass for me.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 12:37:13


Post by: ceorron


Think these are the only good cavalry currently, all daemons.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Daemons-Of-Khorne-Bloodcrushers

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Seekers-of-Slaanesh

Ignoring these as not CC cavalry, but are also pretty good.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Mechanicus-Serberys-Sulphurhounds--2020

IG used to have cavalry but now don't, maybe they will get there's back too at some point.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 12:38:01


Post by: JSG


 skeleton wrote:
al the other factions that charge the enemy headlong have (power)armour and carry guns even the khorn beserkers and the deathcompagny to.
DKK are forge world and dont count , even the gaurd lost them


Nids and daemons don't.

Honestly quite surprised by a lot of peoples reaction to these. Seems they thought 40k was a hard sci-fi setting for some reason.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 17:59:59


Post by: Grimskul


 ceorron wrote:
Think these are the only good cavalry currently, all daemons.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Daemons-Of-Khorne-Bloodcrushers

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Seekers-of-Slaanesh

Ignoring these as not CC cavalry, but are also pretty good.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Mechanicus-Serberys-Sulphurhounds--2020

IG used to have cavalry but now don't, maybe they will get there's back too at some point.


I'm surprised you forgot about TWC? I think they're one of the few things helping keep SW relatively competitive compared to their other SM peers.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/09 18:01:52


Post by: ceorron


 Grimskul wrote:
 ceorron wrote:
Think these are the only good cavalry currently, all daemons.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Daemons-Of-Khorne-Bloodcrushers

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Seekers-of-Slaanesh

Ignoring these as not CC cavalry, but are also pretty good.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Mechanicus-Serberys-Sulphurhounds--2020

IG used to have cavalry but now don't, maybe they will get there's back too at some point.


I'm surprised you forgot about TWC? I think they're one of the few things helping keep SW relatively competitive compared to their other SM peers.


Oh yeah thanks Grimskul, they will be updated to primaris in time though.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/10 10:28:16


Post by: Cronch


JSG wrote:
 skeleton wrote:
al the other factions that charge the enemy headlong have (power)armour and carry guns even the khorn beserkers and the deathcompagny to.
DKK are forge world and dont count , even the gaurd lost them


Nids and daemons don't.

Honestly quite surprised by a lot of peoples reaction to these. Seems they thought 40k was a hard sci-fi setting for some reason.

Soft Sci-Fi doesn't mean the models need to be designed using only the smear brush option


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/12 22:31:56


Post by: kestral


Hmmm, I like the squigs more than boars for 40k, but the ork rider just looks dull.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/13 03:29:25


Post by: tneva82


 skeleton wrote:
al the other factions that charge the enemy headlong have (power)armour and carry guns even the khorn beserkers and the deathcompagny to.
DKK are forge world and dont count , even the gaurd lost them


Orks, tyranids. Flayed ones ain't touting power armour(or 3+). Eldar have non-3+. Dark eldar. Daemons. Maybe others.

You were saying?

Funny how people make silly claims easily disproven. People enjoy being publicly horribly wrong?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:09:29


Post by: beast_gts


What Do You Mean, Not All Beast Snaggas Ride Squigs?

Spoiler:


WarCom wrote:Now, I’z been ‘earin that some of you boyz ‘av been getting yer teef kicked in by them big Beast Snagga gitz. Oi! I don’t care ‘ow much of a laff that is, I wanna know wot makes them boyz so tuff. Get the ‘oomies back on da case, dey figgered out da squighog stuff in dis reg’lar feature last time, right? Wot’s a reggiler feature anyway? Zog it, you ladz make my ‘ed ‘urt…

The Beast Snaggas might be well known for riding into battle on the backs of various squig species, but some delight in bringing their targets down on their own two feet. Banding together into large mobs of Beast Snagga Boyz, these ferocious fighters can often be found crashing into the monsters brought down by their stikka-lobbing comrades and hacking their tough hides to pieces.

A (relatively short) lifetime of hunting huge, dangerous beasts has made these Orks particularly large and strong in comparison with regular Boyz. While they’re not quite as durable as a Nob, they can certainly swing their choppas just as hard, which makes them especially prone to lording it over the Boyz they charge alongside.

Although the Beast Snaggas’ adherence to the old ways of Orky culture makes them an ideal fit for the equally traditionalist Snakebites, they can be found across almost every clan. While other greenskins might see them as a bit weird, no one will turn down a few extra bodies in a fight, and it can be a good laugh seeing the Beast Snagga Boyz trying to harpoon giant tanks.

As if they weren’t tough enough already, the frequent and plentiful injuries that come as part of any career in squig-wrangling* mean frequent trips to the Dok, and by necessity Beast Snagga Doks are some of the most ‘creative’ around. Thankfully, we haven’t had a reason to catch a look at one up close just yet, but surely they can’t be any worse than Ghazghkull’s personal sawbones…

Are you looking to start up your own Waaagh! in preparation for the Beast Snaggas’ arrival? Begin your green tide today with the Start Collecting! Orks set, then fill it out with whatever you fancy, be it more Boyz, a Boss Mob, or even a hulking Gorkanaut. We’ll be back in two weeks with another bit of reconnaissance.

* When even your breakfast is squig-based, it’s a given that you’re going to get bitten one of these days.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:20:24


Post by: Mr. Grey


The head on this guy certainly looks more "ork" than the ones on the Squighog riders.

I think I like him, though it doesn't appear as if there's much poseability to the mini. Guessing we'll get these in boxes of 5 or 10 individual sculpts. Knowing GW, it'll be 5 for $55.

I wonder how they'll handle the granularity of "tougher than boyz but not as tough as nobz"?.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:22:24


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Mr. Grey wrote:
The head on this guy certainly looks more "ork" than the ones on the Squighog riders.

I think I like him, though it doesn't appear as if there's much poseability to the mini. Guessing we'll get these in boxes of 5 or 10 individual sculpts. Knowing GW, it'll be 5 for $55.

I wonder how they'll handle the granularity of "tougher than boyz but not as tough as nobz"?.


S5 T4 keep them at 1 wound probably

"While they’re not quite as durable as a Nob, they can certainly swing their choppas just as hard, which makes them especially prone to lording it over the Boyz they charge alongside."


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:24:47


Post by: Mr_Rose


So… they’re basically Skarboyz but with regular Ork armour (i.e. tissue paper and wishes)?
That’s fine.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:29:36


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Mr_Rose wrote:
So… they’re basically Skarboyz but with regular Ork armour (i.e. tissue paper and wishes)?
That’s fine.


They may just be Skarboyz, to differentiate them from normal boyz and remove that strategem. We also know they have some shoulder mounted big shootas too, so could be a soft replacement for the current boyz box if they give shootas as an option.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:31:31


Post by: xttz


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:

I wonder how they'll handle the granularity of "tougher than boyz but not as tough as nobz"?.


S5 T4 keep them at 1 wound probably


Crazy thought - Nobz get the overhaul treatment to T5 W2, these guys are T4 W2.

Dakka lives happily ever after* as Primaris Orks are now real

*lol


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:31:42


Post by: Irbis


 skeleton wrote:
al the other factions that charge the enemy headlong have (power)armour and carry guns even the khorn beserkers and the deathcompagny to.
DKK are forge world and dont count , even the gaurd lost them



You were saying?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 15:39:48


Post by: Cronch


So they're 40k ironjawz (except armor)


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 16:54:35


Post by: lord_blackfang


Infantry Boy is pretty okay.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 17:09:33


Post by: Crimson


If these new Beast Snagga boys are troops I will seriously consider building a small Ork army.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 17:32:53


Post by: Sotahullu


 Crimson wrote:
If these new Beast Snagga boys are troops I will seriously consider building a small Ork army.


Well those are armed like regular Boyz, look like one and act like one then it is naturally a Troop choice.

But I am more interested if these guys actually use "guns".


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 18:21:33


Post by: Mr_Rose


Sotahullu wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
If these new Beast Snagga boys are troops I will seriously consider building a small Ork army.


Well those are armed like regular Boyz, look like one and act like one then it is naturally a Troop choice.

But I am more interested if these guys actually use "guns".

So… what exactly is it you think that boy is holding in his non-choppa hand?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 18:24:29


Post by: JNAProductions


 Mr_Rose wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
If these new Beast Snagga boys are troops I will seriously consider building a small Ork army.


Well those are armed like regular Boyz, look like one and act like one then it is naturally a Troop choice.

But I am more interested if these guys actually use "guns".

So… what exactly is it you think that boy is holding in his non-choppa hand?
A club designed to explode on impact, of course!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/19 19:03:34


Post by: Sotahullu


 JNAProductions wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
If these new Beast Snagga boys are troops I will seriously consider building a small Ork army.


Well those are armed like regular Boyz, look like one and act like one then it is naturally a Troop choice.

But I am more interested if these guys actually use "guns".

So… what exactly is it you think that boy is holding in his non-choppa hand?
A club designed to explode on impact, of course!


Well I meant shoota of course. Slugga is just cube shaped club that sometimes shoots.


But really, just looking at it I just get the feeling that it was originally a resculpt.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/21 00:52:59


Post by: Ghaz


Noticed this reply from GW on the Facebook post of the new Beast Snagga...

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:More intel coming in 2 weeks, Philip - stay tuned!

So maybe a another preview show come May 8th?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/21 03:47:44


Post by: Da Butcha


 Ghaz wrote:
Noticed this reply from GW on the Facebook post of the new Beast Snagga...

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:More intel coming in 2 weeks, Philip - stay tuned!

So maybe a another preview show come May 8th?


At the current rate, they'll put up four boxes for sale in 2 weeks, then tell you they aren't planning on making any more Beast Snaggas.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/21 03:54:43


Post by: Kanluwen


 Ghaz wrote:
Noticed this reply from GW on the Facebook post of the new Beast Snagga...

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:More intel coming in 2 weeks, Philip - stay tuned!

So maybe a another preview show come May 8th?

First preview article was April 5th; they're just doing two week intervals it seems.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/21 04:13:53


Post by: jeff white


 Blackie wrote:
Godawful, both the concept and the sculpt. Easy pass for me.


New orks are meh at best. I wanted to like the new IP buggies but too IP mono for my taste. Now these not boar boys boar boys... just more GW money grabber bad faith in action.

GW money grabbers, 2 wounds 2++ with invisibility. No wonder they got rid of templates.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/21 04:32:20


Post by: Argive


I wonder what the difference wil be between the snagags and bikers.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/04/21 04:43:33


Post by: Hankovitch


My guess would be they're built more around melee than shooting (the plain warbikers are much better at shooting than melee, though they're still rubbish at both for their points). Probably will have a normal-ish "biker" statline, but with abilities triggering on the charge.

I suppose the real question will be how they compare to nob bikers, especially in melee weapons.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 13:43:00


Post by: Tzeentchling9


Hopefully Grots got some love. Because just +1 to hit for "super" grots seems pretty meh.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 14:08:25


Post by: Irbis


 Tzeentchling9 wrote:
Hopefully Grots got some love. Because just +1 to hit for "super" grots seems pretty meh.

3+ to hit while being able to also do actions for chaff troop unit is bad now?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 14:25:59


Post by: Orkimedez_Atalaya


 Irbis wrote:
 Tzeentchling9 wrote:
Hopefully Grots got some love. Because just +1 to hit for "super" grots seems pretty meh.

3+ to hit while being able to also do actions for chaff troop unit is bad now?


Yes if you shoot like a standard grot. Question is, are kanz CORE?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 14:26:19


Post by: Tzeentchling9


 Irbis wrote:
 Tzeentchling9 wrote:
Hopefully Grots got some love. Because just +1 to hit for "super" grots seems pretty meh.

3+ to hit while being able to also do actions for chaff troop unit is bad now?

A 12" S3 pistol from a T2 5ppm chaff unit.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 14:29:08


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Meh I was hoping for a new model today


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 14:29:17


Post by: Grimskul


 Irbis wrote:
 Tzeentchling9 wrote:
Hopefully Grots got some love. Because just +1 to hit for "super" grots seems pretty meh.

3+ to hit while being able to also do actions for chaff troop unit is bad now?


It is when you only have a 12" S3 AP- pistol weapon. It's possible they buff up grot blastas slightly, or they introduce a new grot unit, but if all things stay the same as is, its effectively a waste of ink.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 14:35:39


Post by: KidCthulhu


It had been so long since I've seen the original model that I didn't notice new Zodgrod regrew his eye but lost a foot...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 18:25:08


Post by: Oguhmek


Yea those super grots sound pretty useless. Would be better if they got a defensive buff, like a -1 to hit or something, because you hardly take grots for their offensive output.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 18:29:01


Post by: Lord Damocles


Oh, that's actually supposed to be real hair..?
Well dayum.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 18:51:47


Post by: Dendarien


Imagine being the guy who chose the Super Grots rule to preview. Who would possibly be excited reading that?

Oh well, will likely save me 35+ dollars not buying the character.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 19:19:07


Post by: KidCthulhu


 Lord Damocles wrote:
Oh, that's actually supposed to be real hair..?
Well dayum.


It's like in the old days; it's a hair squig attached with staples


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 20:19:29


Post by: Pickled_egg


We obviously don't have the full picture yet for Zogrod, but given how precious the HQ slots are in an ork list, and given the fact that the "super grots" rule is utterly worthless and his strike last is both random and super conditional.
I can't see him getting into many peoples matched play lists.
Which is a shame as the model is great.

I hope its not a sign of whats to come for the codex, we don't want random rules because Orks, we want stuff that actually works on the battlefield.



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 20:28:28


Post by: Platuan4th


Super Grots would be decent if Gretchin could still take autoguns.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 20:33:42


Post by: EldarExarch


Maybe Grot Guns get updated to be the bee's knees...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 20:34:03


Post by: Lord Damocles


 KidCthulhu wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
Oh, that's actually supposed to be real hair..?
Well dayum.


It's like in the old days; it's a hair squig attached with staples

Even hair squigs have multiple hair-like thin stands of ...hair. Whatever this model has is big and chunky, even by GW's recent standards after they lost the STC files for sculpting textured hair.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 21:51:05


Post by: Mr. Grey


Even hair squigs have multiple hair-like thin stands of ...hair. Whatever this model has is big and chunky, even by GW's recent standards after they lost the STC files for sculpting textured hair.


Maybe they're a new breed of chunkier hair squig. Really this is not a design choice on the mini that bothers me. He certainly looks way more orky than the new Painboss that they previewed a few weeks back.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 21:56:50


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


The new painboss is designed for you to flip the top of his head open and put a snotling in it driving him like a robot suit (if the standard snotlings are too big, there are a couple of smaller ones on one of the AoS goblin wizard's base) that i'm sure would work


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 21:58:53


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Mr. Grey wrote:
Even hair squigs have multiple hair-like thin stands of ...hair. Whatever this model has is big and chunky, even by GW's recent standards after they lost the STC files for sculpting textured hair.


Maybe they're a new breed of chunkier hair squig. Really this is not a design choice on the mini that bothers me. He certainly looks way more orky than the new Painboss that they previewed a few weeks back.


I mean, he's much more skinnier and spindlier, so if that what means Orky for you, are Gretchin the Orkiest Orks around?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 22:20:22


Post by: GaroRobe


I don't see them mention that it's meant to be actual hair. Just that whatever it is, it's not actually his hair and that it's stapled on.

I was hoping we'd get some new grots to go alongside him, but some things aren't meant to be.

Also, why is his base so big? And did it need to have a scenic base? His base looks like it's just a big crack, so I don't see the point


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 22:20:37


Post by: Mr. Grey


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Even hair squigs have multiple hair-like thin stands of ...hair. Whatever this model has is big and chunky, even by GW's recent standards after they lost the STC files for sculpting textured hair.


Maybe they're a new breed of chunkier hair squig. Really this is not a design choice on the mini that bothers me. He certainly looks way more orky than the new Painboss that they previewed a few weeks back.


I mean, he's much more skinnier and spindlier, so if that what means Orky for you, are Gretchin the Orkiest Orks around?


Nobody ever said orks had to be burly sacks of muscle. The Painboss looks a bit more like he'd fit right into a Dark Eldar army if you painted him in anything but green.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 22:23:37


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Because Orks never had prosthetics or cybernetics? And being literally made for fighting kinda leads itself to being burly sacks of muscle


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/17 23:07:40


Post by: GaroRobe


I assume the first part is sarcasm, since cyborks have been around forever, Zagstruk has his power klaw legs, etc.


Zodgrod is a bit lanky, though making him goblin-y is actually pretty clever and not something I had considered. Good juxtaposition from the current runtherder model, who's just a big fat guy. I think it works though, since Zod's an outcast who hangs out with grots, and normal runtherders get grots to do all their heavy lifting (and are probably snacking on them all the time.)

As for the Painboss, I think he's orky enough. Like Zodgrod, he's based off an old metal model (though not a named character.) Plus it's funny that he has a very high-tech mechanical hand in his backpack, but opted for the claw one instead.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 06:58:51


Post by: Blackie


 Irbis wrote:
 Tzeentchling9 wrote:
Hopefully Grots got some love. Because just +1 to hit for "super" grots seems pretty meh.

3+ to hit while being able to also do actions for chaff troop unit is bad now?


20+ gretchins get a native +1 to hit anyway, and since they have crappy S3 no AP 12'' pistols in practise smaller units won't achieve anything with a +1 to hit. Due to the low range they might even not be in range of anything if they're doing some actions, as they typically do work in the ork deployment zone.

Of couse 30'' S4 AP-1 or -2 that are also able to do actions for chaff troop unit would be extremely good, but I'm afraid that's another book you have in mind .


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 09:03:45


Post by: Jidmah


It's not unlikely that gretchin will lose the horde bonus or have it replaced with something else.

As always, it's hilarious how many people complain about things being "unorky" that have been in the fluff for decades.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 10:00:56


Post by: Oguhmek


 Platuan4th wrote:
Super Grots would be decent if Gretchin could still take autoguns.


Yeah, or if Mek Guns were Core, then I would see the point of this ability.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 10:29:21


Post by: tneva82


 Oguhmek wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
Super Grots would be decent if Gretchin could still take autoguns.


Yeah, or if Mek Guns were Core, then I would see the point of this ability.


Not sure would single gun really be that big deal either.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 10:57:07


Post by: Oguhmek


Ah, yes they become separate units at deployment, and this only works from the start of the first battle round.

Shame though, it's a nice model, too bad he'll just stay on the shelf.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 22:29:52


Post by: panzerfront14


If our Dreads and Kanz are not core I will be livid because all save those Leviathan Dreads are Core for Space Marines, but they are GW's favored children.

Though getting 3+ to hit Killa Kanz will be nice, and could make them more viable.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 22:43:58


Post by: Tastyfish


Dreads core, but not Kans I reckon, based on nothing at all other than that Kans aren't orks


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/18 23:13:33


Post by: cody.d.


panzerfront14 wrote:
If our Dreads and Kanz are not core I will be livid because all save those Leviathan Dreads are Core for Space Marines, but they are GW's favored children.

Though getting 3+ to hit Killa Kanz will be nice, and could make them more viable.


If FW is anything to go by they're all likely to get the WALKERZ keyword and have buffs to interact with that much like speedfreeks. Using Buzzgob as a indicator. Beast Snaggaz will likely have a few specific buffing auras/abilities as well.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 06:15:03


Post by: Orkimedez_Atalaya


A small fear towards the new dex is the breakbown into subfactions. I am afraid the buff may be too especific. Much like happend with Crons, where the interactions between destroyers, canoptek and whatnot is very low.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 06:58:24


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Because Orks never had prosthetics or cybernetics? And being literally made for fighting kinda leads itself to being burly sacks of muscle


Have… have you ever looked at the Ork range???


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 07:16:39


Post by: Jidmah


 Tastyfish wrote:
Dreads core, but not Kans I reckon, based on nothing at all other than that Kans aren't orks


That doesn't really matter for core though. We don't really have any army with light walkers to see any pattern, traditionally kanz were the counterparts to AM sentinels or craftworld warwalkers. Talos and Chronos are CORE for drukhari, while drones and MBH aren't core for Death Guard, so it really could go either way. It will be interesting to see if the new sister mechs are core or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Because Orks never had prosthetics or cybernetics? And being literally made for fighting kinda leads itself to being burly sacks of muscle


Have… have you ever looked at the Ork range???


I think they were being sarcastic.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 07:47:08


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Of course i was being sarcastic! Making fun of people who think the new Painboy doesn't remotely look like an Ork because he's a Cybork


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 08:08:43


Post by: Blackie


panzerfront14 wrote:
If our Dreads and Kanz are not core I will be livid because all save those Leviathan Dreads are Core for Space Marines, but they are GW's favored children.

Though getting 3+ to hit Killa Kanz will be nice, and could make them more viable.


Even possible 2+ to hit, re-rolling 1s, if current kustom jobs and subkultures are going to stay. Sniper grots!!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 11:04:46


Post by: Binabik15


Grot snipers would make too much sense. What else would Orks to with captured guns that fire slowly? Give them to grots and have them support Kommandoz - or support da revolushn by killing Ork oppressors from far away. Not that sniper units are amazing, but they're cool. And now I think I have to convert some.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 11:21:02


Post by: Pointer5


Got snipers would be great and in keeping with their character. It would give another long range support option.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/19 15:25:19


Post by: Mr. Grey


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Of course i was being sarcastic! Making fun of people who think the new Painboy doesn't remotely look like an Ork because he's a Cybork


All I said was that Wortsnagga looked (in my personal opinion) more orky than the new Painboss.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 08:58:21


Post by: H.B.M.C.


So some non-Dakka related... things... happened last Friday that prevented me from posting until now.

GW put aside a whole day of their "Warhammer Fest" to show off the new Beast Snaggas and managed to decidedly not show off the new Beast Snaggas. How predictable. They showed more mono-pose boys, and the other two Squig Riders. Gave us a new HQ Squig dude, and put a guy known for dealing with Gretchin in a box that has no Gretchin. Terrific job there GW.

At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 10:44:10


Post by: Blackie


 H.B.M.C. wrote:


At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




That option was already lost to be fair, as the warboss in megarmor doesn't exist anymore since 8th codex. Only lives in legends.

The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 10:52:17


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Blackie wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




That option was already lost to be fair, as the warboss in megarmor doesn't exist anymore since 8th codex. Only lives in legends.

The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.



Ork players can convert and kitbash literally everything, I bet there's tons of them out there with a kitbashed model they could reasonably Proxy as a Warboss in Megaarmour with a big choppa right now.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 10:57:47


Post by: Irbis


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Gave us a new HQ Squig dude, and put a guy known for dealing with Gretchin in a box that has no Gretchin. Terrific job there GW.

Let me guess, if they actually put some in, you'd complain instead about evul GW putting 50 year old sculpts in the box that don't match the theme at all to inflate the price? I really like how, given so many real reasons to complain about GW, you can always find nothing burger with people picking at stuff that makes no sense. Oh no, GW lets you save money and use existing collection, how villainous!

 Blackie wrote:
The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.

Yup, because counting his claw as one (given no confusion is possible) is sooo hard, am I rite?

Also, I wonder what will happen if it actually does have the option and all the complainers will be proven wrong. Probably crickets like usual...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 11:30:18


Post by: Blackie


 Irbis wrote:

Yup, because counting his claw as one (given no confusion is possible) is sooo hard, am I rite?

Also, I wonder what will happen if it actually does have the option and all the complainers will be proven wrong. Probably crickets like usual...


WYSIWYG is typically required at tournaments. Think about mek gunz: a player might have one of each and it wouldn't be confusing at all to count all of them as a single type of mek gunz. But guess what, not everyone (and definitely not all TOs) will allow a bubblechukka or a traktor to count as a smasha gun. Even if no confusion is possible.

I play with proxies and counts as all the time, and I'll definitely use my old ghaz as warboss in megarmour (and my AOBR slugga/choppa nobz will count as snaggas) but not everyone is ok in doing or allowing that.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 11:34:42


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 Blackie wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




That option was already lost to be fair, as the warboss in megarmor doesn't exist anymore since 8th codex. Only lives in legends.

The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.





40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 11:47:40


Post by: Oguhmek


If we're lucky he comes with an alternate set of arms with a PK. Depends on if it fits on the sprue I guess.

Would be silly to only allow PK on a regular boss and big choppa on the megaboss. My main concern though is if we don't get a decent relic to give him, because with only the basic weapons a megaboss is pretty lame (in comparison to many other factions HQs) unless he also gets a decent stats boost and/or some special rules.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 12:12:37


Post by: GaroRobe


Unless he turns out to be a named character, the beast snaggas look like they have a boss in mega armor with a powerklaw. So there may be hope


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 12:52:20


Post by: Blackie


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




That option was already lost to be fair, as the warboss in megarmor doesn't exist anymore since 8th codex. Only lives in legends.

The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.





That's not a warboss in megarmor with a big choppa. It's actually not even a 40k model .

And all the people I know that bought that model to play it as a 40k warboss cut its right arm and replaced it with a power klaw!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 13:28:28


Post by: Jidmah


I still fully expect the beast snagga boss to be that model with a single sprue replaced with another.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 13:32:21


Post by: godswildcard


 Jidmah wrote:
I still fully expect the beast snagga boss to be that model with a single sprue replaced with another.


You're thinking to small, friend!

The beast snagga boss will be the same model with an UPGRADE sprue that will cost twice as much!



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/20 23:28:43


Post by: Pointer5


As long as we get all the options and upgrades we need and want I will be happy. Hopefully GW will release the new ork models with all their upgrades. I would help to sell more orks if they do.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 06:13:49


Post by: Jidmah


Pointer5 wrote:
As long as we get all the options and upgrades we need and want I will be happy. Hopefully GW will release the new ork models with all their upgrades. I would help to sell more orks if they do.


That's likely to be true, though not in the way you would expect it - there won't be any option for upgrades which aren't in the box.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 06:58:23


Post by: MajorWesJanson


H.B.M.C. 797386 wrote:Gave us a new HQ Squig dude, and put a guy known for dealing with Gretchin in a box that has no Gretchin. Terrific job there GW.



It's a spearhead box. Bunch of new models and a codex before the full release. I bought the SM one for 5th edition. Drop pod, scout bikes, metal sternguard and vanguard, and like 5 characters from 3 different chapters


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 07:56:12


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's a spearhead box. Bunch of new models and a codex before the full release. I bought the SM one for 5th edition. Drop pod, scout bikes, metal sternguard and vanguard, and like 5 characters from 3 different chapters
And that type of box stopped years ago.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 08:16:57


Post by: ph34r


Guess they had fun doing that with SoB and figured why not do it again


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 09:24:18


Post by: ImAGeek


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's a spearhead box. Bunch of new models and a codex before the full release. I bought the SM one for 5th edition. Drop pod, scout bikes, metal sternguard and vanguard, and like 5 characters from 3 different chapters
And that type of box stopped years ago.


And then started again, with Sisters and Lumineth. It’s not something they do consistently now, but it’s not something they never do either.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 10:15:30


Post by: Lord Damocles


 ph34r wrote:
Guess they had fun doing that with SoB and figured why not do it again

No no - remember the Sisters box was a super special reward to Sisters players to mark their faith.

It certainly wasn't just a marketing spin on how GW were going to introduce new/updated factions' models going forwards...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 10:21:12


Post by: Voss


Pointer5 wrote:
As long as we get all the options and upgrades we need and want I will be happy. Hopefully GW will release the new ork models with all their upgrades. I would help to sell more orks if they do.


They do have all their upgrades. One model squad gets to have a double handed axe or whatever kind of blastgun. Plus whatever big axe the not-a-nob variant has. The nob has some gear too, but probably unique to him.

That's it.

-----

And yeah, this box is similar to sisters and lumenith. Biggest difference to cow elves is it will have a real codex, not a half finished one that will be completed later.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:22:15


Post by: tneva82


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's a spearhead box. Bunch of new models and a codex before the full release. I bought the SM one for 5th edition. Drop pod, scout bikes, metal sternguard and vanguard, and like 5 characters from 3 different chapters
And that type of box stopped years ago.


What do you mean stopped? Discount boxes for new stuff with solo releases later been stapple of gw strategy for years


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:28:48


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Spearhead boxes. The act of piling all a Codices new releases into a single box and selling it. That stopped ages ago.

Lumineth? SoBs? These weren't Spearhead boxes. Hell, the SoB stuff was unique to that box. It wasn't a box of new releases.





40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:34:56


Post by: the_scotsman


 Blackie wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




That option was already lost to be fair, as the warboss in megarmor doesn't exist anymore since 8th codex. Only lives in legends.

The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.





That's not a warboss in megarmor with a big choppa. It's actually not even a 40k model .

And all the people I know that bought that model to play it as a 40k warboss cut its right arm and replaced it with a power klaw!


I put a Killa Kan arm on him, personally.

....and then a killa kan big shoota.

And then a grot head, the one with the baseball cap.

Suffused with the energies of the Boston Red Sox, Grotzghkhull leads his band of revolooshunaries to glorious victory, DOUBLING the offensive output of all nearby grots!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:35:02


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Spearhead or no, I’m not a big fan. It means those who can’t afford the price or just want the Codex are out of luck.

If it’s just a shiny version of the book, and we can buy the regular one on the same day, I’m happier about it.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:36:23


Post by: the_scotsman


...they do them any time they anticipate a new release will lead to people starting a whole new army.

That's what they're for - a kickstarter to a new army collection.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:57:02


Post by: GaroRobe


The reason there are no grots in the box is because they didn't make new gretchin for this release. If this was a normal versus box, then we probably would have gotten gretchin. And then someone would complain about having to spend a lot of money on a box that includes a cheap unit like them.

Though I guess you could argue, why include the runtherder in this box?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 11:59:41


Post by: Tiberius501


 the_scotsman wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


At least the Mega-Armoured Warboss is cool, but given his distinct lack of Power Klaw, I guess Ork players are about to lose that option as well. Cool.




That option was already lost to be fair, as the warboss in megarmor doesn't exist anymore since 8th codex. Only lives in legends.

The mega armoured boss' big choppa has only one purpose: to force ork players to buy the model and avoid using the old ghaz model as a reasonable proxy instead. No one has a warboss in megarmor with big choppa. That's why they give it to the new boss.





That's not a warboss in megarmor with a big choppa. It's actually not even a 40k model .

And all the people I know that bought that model to play it as a 40k warboss cut its right arm and replaced it with a power klaw!


I put a Killa Kan arm on him, personally.

....and then a killa kan big shoota.

And then a grot head, the one with the baseball cap.

Suffused with the energies of the Boston Red Sox, Grotzghkhull leads his band of revolooshunaries to glorious victory, DOUBLING the offensive output of all nearby grots!


I made a megaboss using this model, just using some spare Orky bits from other kits.

[Thumb - 4C722F44-59BD-4F4F-8EE0-7893E7F498BF.jpeg]


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/21 13:07:53


Post by: Jidmah


 GaroRobe wrote:
The reason there are no grots in the box is because they didn't make new gretchin for this release. If this was a normal versus box, then we probably would have gotten gretchin. And then someone would complain about having to spend a lot of money on a box that includes a cheap unit like them.

Though I guess you could argue, why include the runtherder in this box?


To put a named character in there to ruin any savings advantage multiples of it would provide.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:11:52


Post by: Platuan4th


With +1 T to current, Grots would be T3, not 4.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:12:52


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I thought they were S2 T3 currently?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:13:42


Post by: Platuan4th


Nope, T2.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:13:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


For someone still stuck on the old To Wound matrix, how much does the T5 help out?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:14:37


Post by: JoeRugby


Not feeling it (the t5 boys) seems too much, I wouldn't say they as tough as death guard In the lore as tough as a marine out of armour sure. But 5 is too much.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:21:23


Post by: Iracundus


 JoeRugby wrote:
Not feeling it (the t5 boys) seems too much, I wouldn't say they as tough as death guard In the lore as tough as a marine out of armour sure. But 5 is too much.


What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

For me I think the suspension of disbelief is more about the invulnerable save and how much skin is showing. Scars or no scars, a lascannon should be lethal.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:25:10


Post by: Sotahullu


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For someone still stuck on the old To Wound matrix, how much does the T5 help out?


On average basic guns (lasgun, boltgun) are at S 3-4 bracket and melee being similar so it mean Orks are wounded at 5+ on general now. Big bonus altogether.




40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:25:59


Post by: Nurglitch


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For someone still stuck on the old To Wound matrix, how much does the T5 help out?

You'll need S10 for a 2+ to wound. So everything from S6-9 will be 3+, while S3-4 will be 5+. Meaning 18 Boltgun hits will cause ~6 wounds rather than ~9 wounds.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:29:36


Post by: Galas


T5 is probably better for orks and the game, offering a different defensive profile and speeding up the game.

Personally it feels wrong to have a T5 1W model. But as I said, T4 W2 even if in my mind is "better", would make orks worse marines in their profile.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:30:54


Post by: JoeRugby


Iracundus wrote:
Spoiler:
 JoeRugby wrote:
Not feeling it (the t5 boys) seems too much, I wouldn't say they as tough as death guard In the lore as tough as a marine out of armour sure. But 5 is too much.


What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

For me I think the suspension of disbelief is more about the invulnerable save and how much skin is showing. Scars or no scars, a lascannon should be lethal.


Na for basic boys stay t4 1w


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:42:37


Post by: Daedalus81


Called it! Love the changes. I didn't expect regular Boyz to get it. AP1 Choppas were inevitable, too. Sooo happy.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:44:17


Post by: Nurglitch


Hopefully Tyranids get the extra wounds at lower toughness if Orks get fewer wounds at higher toughness as their codex-buff.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:53:30


Post by: Iracundus


Nurglitch wrote:
Hopefully Tyranids get the extra wounds at lower toughness if Orks get fewer wounds at higher toughness as their codex-buff.


I am hoping the Tyranid big creatures get lots of Wounds and for options to regenerate/heal them, for that feel of alien horror at the creature not only surviving what "should" have killed it but healing in front of its enemies.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 12:58:51


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Iracundus wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Hopefully Tyranids get the extra wounds at lower toughness if Orks get fewer wounds at higher toughness as their codex-buff.


I am hoping the Tyranid big creatures get lots of Wounds and for options to regenerate/heal them, for that feel of alien horror at the creature not only surviving what "should" have killed it but healing in front of its enemies.


I think I’d prefer regen to wound avoidance. Force the enemy to focus their fire.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:03:21


Post by: Iracundus


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Hopefully Tyranids get the extra wounds at lower toughness if Orks get fewer wounds at higher toughness as their codex-buff.


I am hoping the Tyranid big creatures get lots of Wounds and for options to regenerate/heal them, for that feel of alien horror at the creature not only surviving what "should" have killed it but healing in front of its enemies.


I think I’d prefer regen to wound avoidance. Force the enemy to focus their fire.


There is the reliability aspect. There is 0% of a single 1 Damage weapon dropping your 2+ Wound model, whereas there is a non-zero probability of it if your model has only 1 Wound.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:04:08


Post by: tneva82


 JoeRugby wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Spoiler:
 JoeRugby wrote:
Not feeling it (the t5 boys) seems too much, I wouldn't say they as tough as death guard In the lore as tough as a marine out of armour sure. But 5 is too much.


What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

For me I think the suspension of disbelief is more about the invulnerable save and how much skin is showing. Scars or no scars, a lascannon should be lethal.


Na for basic boys stay t4 1w


You would need significant points drop then to help them out. Currently wiping units each turn is snap of a finger


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:13:03


Post by: xttz


Nurglitch wrote:
Hopefully Tyranids get the extra wounds at lower toughness if Orks get fewer wounds at higher toughness as their codex-buff.


More diverse defensive profiles like this can only be a good thing for the overall meta. Anyone focusing heavily on high-damage weapons to kill Tyranids is gonna get shut down hard by T5 W1 Orks. The opposite will be true for anyone with too many points sunk into high ROF and/or high-strength D1 weapons.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:21:24


Post by: Selfcontrol


Having multiple "defensive profiles" spread across factions is a good thing for the meta in my opinion.

Currently, a lot of armies are either taking "anti-SM" weapons or "anti-Drukhari" weapons and they both have quite opposite defensive profiles.

Adding a new "intermediate" profile (bad save, 1W, but high base Toughness) further makes some weapons more interesting (such as ... the Tesla Carbine !).


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:23:41


Post by: Oguhmek


Hmm, I'm a cautiously optimistic.

It will come down to the points in the end I suppose.

S5 Choppas on the Snaggas has potential though, wounding space marines on a 3+ is nice.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:49:00


Post by: Voss


The +1 to hit seems odd to me. I was expecting the snaggas to get +1 to wound against big stuff, it seems far more thematic and useful.

I dread the point costs, though. Don't want to see another increase on boys or snaggas to reach double digits, and wih all these changes, I'm not sure they won't.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 13:54:58


Post by: cerealkiller195


the beast snaggas are cool and all but after seeing the AoS dominion orcs... can we get some of those?! Also making some models cheaper never hurt anyone =3


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:05:27


Post by: Tyran


Orks are not getting cheaper, not with T5 upgrade.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:21:26


Post by: Nurglitch


Heh, what, we're not going to go out and replace 300+ Ork models?!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:23:50


Post by: Irbis


Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Anyway, if Harlies and DE are any indication, let's welcome third completely broken xeno army beating SM by default, especially after CA point nerfs to last crutches SM used to stay competitive (cue people without a clue still claiming SM are the most OP faction ever)

Iracundus wrote:
What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

How about T4 W1 FNP if they really supposed to be 'tough'? Orks ignoring bolters but still being vulnerable to lasguns is kinda dumb.

tneva82 wrote:
Currently wiping units each turn is snap of a finger

That's not the problem with ork statline, that's problem caused by insanely dumb damage inflation*. GW is fixing wrong thing.

*gee, yet another proof stupid W2 buff to appease a handful of squatwhiners was bad for game? Who could have guessed?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:29:25


Post by: Daedalus81


cerealkiller195 wrote:
the beast snaggas are cool and all but after seeing the AoS dominion orcs... can we get some of those?! Also making some models cheaper never hurt anyone =3


Boyz will stay 8. Snaggas will be 10. That's my guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Anyway, if Harlies and DE are any indication, let's welcome third completely broken xeno army beating SM by default, especially after CA point nerfs to last crutches SM used to stay competitive (cue people without a clue still claiming SM are the most OP faction ever)


Hyperbole thy name is an opinion on Dakka.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:31:54


Post by: H.B.M.C.


The correct way to represent an Ork's resilience would be a Feel No Pain save.

But, that would add more dice rolling to a game that already has far too much dice rolling, so T5 will do.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:32:31


Post by: Esper


T5 could suit some units like Meganobz (or even all Nobz-based profiles, like Weirdboyz) but seems too much for regular Boyz. A FNP roll would have been more aki to the lore of orks ignoring wounds not because they are not physically damaged, but just because... they feel almost no pain.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:38:11


Post by: Uriels_Flame


How is an ork T than a marine armor now?

Ork magic.

Seems arbitrary and cash grab for shiny new models.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:43:08


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


I feel like T5 is a very handy change for a horde army. Orks needed something, FNP or +1wound would have been fiddly, 6++ wouldn't be useful really (and hey, some of them got that, too ).
"orkstodes", really? Forgive me but I must have overlooked the 3 wounds or the 2+ save...
With all the firepower and abundance of AP Orks will rarely use their saves, at least give them something.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:45:42


Post by: a_typical_hero


 Uriels_Flame wrote:
How is an ork T than a marine armor now?

Ork magic.

Seems arbitrary and cash grab for shiny new models.

Apart from the fact that all Orks will get the T increase, as shown and written on the community article. You don't have to buy a single new model. But keep on hatin'


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:46:31


Post by: Jidmah


 Oguhmek wrote:
Hmm, I'm a cautiously optimistic.

It will come down to the points in the end I suppose.

S5 Choppas on the Snaggas has potential though, wounding space marines on a 3+ is nice.


Points are easily changed, datasheets stick around till the next codex... and that datasheet looks rather nice.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:47:19


Post by: Fergie0044


Ah, my DG feel less special now. :(
Anyway, will be interesting to see what T5 horde looks and plays like on the table. At least it will be something different to the "T3 but with a decent save" that was becoming the norm.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:48:13


Post by: Jidmah


Voss wrote:
The +1 to hit seems odd to me. I was expecting the snaggas to get +1 to wound against big stuff, it seems far more thematic and useful.

+1 to wound on 20 boyz with 60 attacks sounds a bit too powerful to me.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:50:36


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I like how Beast Snaggaz have lots of bionics and are used to hunting big beasts... so naturally they're excellent at anti-tank operations.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe the skills are transferable, and the ability to wrangle big Squigs is exactly the same as pinpointing the weaknesses on Land Raiders and Falcon Grav Tanks.



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:51:10


Post by: bullyboy


 Uriels_Flame wrote:
How is an ork T than a marine armor now?

Ork magic.

Seems arbitrary and cash grab for shiny new models.


T is not reflected as much in the armour.....that would be an "armour" save.
T5 is weird, and a FNP would make more sense, but again.....to save time in a game, I'm OK with it.

I do agree that improving them vs bolters while still being hurt the same by lasguns is a weird choice.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:52:38


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 bullyboy wrote:
I do agree that improving them vs bolters while still being hurt the same by lasguns is a weird choice.
Well that's the problem with the To Wound table in 8th/9th. It squishes everything towards the middle.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 14:53:44


Post by: Jidmah


Iracundus wrote:
 JoeRugby wrote:
Not feeling it (the t5 boys) seems too much, I wouldn't say they as tough as death guard In the lore as tough as a marine out of armour sure. But 5 is too much.


What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

For me I think the suspension of disbelief is more about the invulnerable save and how much skin is showing. Scars or no scars, a lascannon should be lethal.


There are actually multiple fluff pieces (and IIRC even a picture in a codex somewhere?) showing how an ork missing half his torso and an arm from a lascannon shot managed to stumble back to the doc and get fixed up again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

I wouldn't call a custodes a mentally challenged fungus, but they really don't get out a lot. But yeah, orks were the absolute masterpiece of the old ones, unlike the other creation which fethed up so hard they gave birth to a chaos god.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:05:54


Post by: Da Boss


 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Anyway, if Harlies and DE are any indication, let's welcome third completely broken xeno army beating SM by default, especially after CA point nerfs to last crutches SM used to stay competitive (cue people without a clue still claiming SM are the most OP faction ever)


This is a pretty funny post. But in case you're anything close to serious, Orks are the bioengineered warrior race of the Old Ones. Big E's got nothing on that!

T5 orks is an interesting sign that the numbers will just creep for 40K. But maybe it's good to creep in different ways for different factions?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:07:56


Post by: Gadzilla666


 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Except that, Orks are the creation of the beings that literally engineered several of the predominant species in 40k. Orks? Check. Eldar? Check again. Humans and Tyranids? Those are maybes. I think the Old Ones might have a little bit more skill in the whole "engineering living super weapons" thing than the Corpse Emperor. At least they could control theirs while they were around.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:12:54


Post by: Duskweaver


Those of us who are really old will remember that Orks had a higher Toughness than Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era.

And before anyone asks, no that didn't change when SM fluff evolved to make them genetically engineered supersoldiers rather than brainwashed criminals. SM didn't get to be as tough as Orks until 2nd edition.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:14:18


Post by: Nurglitch


Meh, whatever gets 'em downfield, right boyz?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:23:05


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Duskweaver wrote:
Those of us who are really old will remember that Orks had a higher Toughness than Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era.

And before anyone asks, no that didn't change when SM fluff evolved to make them genetically engineered supersoldiers rather than brainwashed criminals. SM didn't get to be as tough as Orks until 2nd edition.


Oooh, not quite! I think it was the Compendium upped them to T4 originally. Would need to check me books, but it defo happened in 1st.

Orks seem to be doing alright at the moment in terms of stat boosts. S4 was much needed. Just looking at the models, they didn’t suggest being the same rough strength as a weedy ‘Oomie. And the T5, from this thread, seems fairly well received.

Proof will be in the pudding of course. It could be that Marines getting an extra wound, and everyone seemingly getting more shots it’ll average out against da ladz. But that isn’t for me to judge.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:35:04


Post by: Daedalus81


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The correct way to represent an Ork's resilience would be a Feel No Pain save.

But, that would add more dice rolling to a game that already has far too much dice rolling, so T5 will do.


Agreed.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:40:46


Post by: Doohicky


Not the first to say it, but I am really liking that they are finally starting to change up the defence style of armies.

Before it was a case that high rate of fire weapons always was best.

Now we should have armies with lots of 1w high T models and low save, armies with lots of 2 wound models and high saves, armies with high T and damage reduction, armies with low toughness and inv saves etc etc.

This has been long overdue coming in my opinion to make it so that armies can't just spam certain weapons for all comers.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:48:57


Post by: Sarigar


I was pretty confident the Beast Snaggas would be T5. I am a bit surprised Ork Boyz also became T5.

I'm very interested to see how this Codex fares. I've enjoyed the 9th edition codexes so far.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:56:35


Post by: GaroRobe


All I care about is my orks lasting long enough to finally kill my friend's tau in melee.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 15:57:56


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I am all for it! I like some diversity in basic profiles between the races and factions. It means that to take an all comers army, you need weapon diversity as well.

Spam too many S4 weapons, then you face an Orc or DG army and all your S4 weapons wound on 5+. Spam High AP weapon to handle power armor and terminators, and these are suddenly worthless against Orcs which have paper armour or a 6+ save anyway. And all the damage 2 weapons which are so good against primaris and space marines are now wasted against Orcs and Eldar.

Some weapons, like those Tesla destructor of Necrons suddenly become a lot more interesting because they have a high number of str 6 shots with zero AP, perfect against T5 orcs with paper thin armor anyway.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:04:19


Post by: Dryaktylus


Gadzilla666 wrote:Except that, Orks are the creation of the beings that literally engineered several of the predominant species in 40k.


Da Boss wrote:Orks are the bioengineered warrior race of the Old Ones.


Orks (and Gretchin) were created by intelligent Snotlings also known as Brainboys. What you guys are talking about?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:05:36


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Dryaktylus wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:Except that, Orks are the creation of the beings that literally engineered several of the predominant species in 40k.


Da Boss wrote:Orks are the bioengineered warrior race of the Old Ones.


Orks (and Gretchin) were created by intelligent Snotlings also known as Brainboys. What you guys are talking about?


Snotlings are The Old Ones.

Isn’t it obvious?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:06:59


Post by: Lord Damocles


Ah yes; bioengineered warrior race. T5 jokaero when?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:19:22


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Lord Damocles wrote:
Ah yes; bioengineered warrior race. T5 jokaero when?

Sometime after they become a warrior race rather than nomads that avoid combat where possible, maybe?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:26:16


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Space Marines are still durable because they are 2W compared to the Orc's 1W. Its just represented in a different way! Like maybe Orcs have bigger muscles and tough skin, so they are T5, while space marines have 2 hearts, so they have 2W.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:32:14


Post by: Nurglitch


Meanwhile, Tyranid Warriors are T4 W3...


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:39:31


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Nurglitch wrote:
Meanwhile, Tyranid Warriors are T4 W3...


They’re also yet to get Ninthed. There’s time yet.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:41:24


Post by: Domandi


I wouldn't worry too much about any army that doesn't have a codex. Each new book has been pretty dang good. I am sure Tyranids players will be happy.(or at least as happy as the average dakka patron gets)


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:45:00


Post by: Platuan4th


 Tyran wrote:
Orks are not getting cheaper, not with T5 upgrade.


Why not? Immortals have T5 and are brought down to being only 4 points more than Warriors in the new points update.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 16:49:25


Post by: Nurglitch


I'm sure they'll be Ninethed good and hard.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 17:10:23


Post by: Tyran


 Platuan4th wrote:


Why not? Immortals have T5 and are brought down to being only 4 points more than Warriors in the new points update.

...
Not sure if joking.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 17:59:33


Post by: Voss


 Platuan4th wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
Orks are not getting cheaper, not with T5 upgrade.


Why not? Immortals have T5 and are brought down to being only 4 points more than Warriors in the new points update.


Both stayed the same, Immortals are simply no longer overcharged for the tesla gun (which got nerfed while blasters got better).


And the point difference between the two necron units is kind of the point
Ork boyz are getting -1 AP in melee, and +1 T. GW could easily decide that both of those are worth a point over the current 8 point T4 boy. (And beast snaggas +1 point each for the strength and special rule). 10 point orks and 12 point beastsnaggas would be pretty bad, even with the improvements, but I can easily see GW getting there just using the simple logic of 'better has to cost more' and applying it in a vacuum. Consider how many iterations it took for them to get Primaris to the point they were even usable, let alone good, and that was with the 'marine bias.'


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 18:30:20


Post by: Galas


Wyches seem fine at 10 ppm.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 18:50:34


Post by: Jidmah


Voss wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
Orks are not getting cheaper, not with T5 upgrade.


Why not? Immortals have T5 and are brought down to being only 4 points more than Warriors in the new points update.


Both stayed the same, Immortals are simply no longer overcharged for the tesla gun (which got nerfed while blasters got better).


And the point difference between the two necron units is kind of the point
Ork boyz are getting -1 AP in melee, and +1 T. GW could easily decide that both of those are worth a point over the current 8 point T4 boy. (And beast snaggas +1 point each for the strength and special rule). 10 point orks and 12 point beastsnaggas would be pretty bad, even with the improvements, but I can easily see GW getting there just using the simple logic of 'better has to cost more' and applying it in a vacuum. Consider how many iterations it took for them to get Primaris to the point they were even usable, let alone good, and that was with the 'marine bias.'


To be fair, boyz aren't really worth their point unless right now unless you buff them with a stratagem (that is likely to disappear) and a 300 point character.
8 point boyz most likely were a measure to get the green tide out of tournaments, not because boyz are actually worth 8 points.

With +1T and ap on choppas though? Totally worth 8 points.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 19:00:13


Post by: Daedalus81


 Jidmah wrote:
With +1T and ap on choppas though? Totally worth 8 points.


Before 9th I would have said they're fine at 8. Now with everyone getting layered it only makes sense for them to stay the same cost and get buffed. Trukk Boyz become more interesting, too.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 19:00:47


Post by: KurtAngle2


 Galas wrote:
Wyches seem fine at 10 ppm.


Wyches are 8 ppm per model now and they are easily worth 10-11 ppm


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 19:01:36


Post by: Gimgamgoo


The "Primaris'ing" of orks?
Make the new troops slightly better so folks with hordes of the old ones now need to buy the new better, shiny, bigger troops?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 19:10:54


Post by: Daedalus81


KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Wyches seem fine at 10 ppm.


Wyches are 8 ppm per model now and they are easily worth 10-11 ppm


They are currently 10.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 19:11:52


Post by: KurtAngle2


 Daedalus81 wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Wyches seem fine at 10 ppm.


Wyches are 8 ppm per model now and they are easily worth 10-11 ppm


They are currently 10.


For a moment I was thinking Wracks...well my statement applies to them perfectly anyway ahhahahah


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 20:02:11


Post by: Mr. Grey


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
The "Primaris'ing" of orks?
Make the new troops slightly better so folks with hordes of the old ones now need to buy the new better, shiny, bigger troops?


Except that ALL ork boyz seem to now have T5, including the generic "Ork Boyz" that form the backbone of most ork armies. This seems like it will also include burna boyz, Stormboyz, Kommandos, etc etc.

The only thing making Snagga Boyz slightly better is the 6+ invulnerable save, Str5, and their +1 to wound vs vehicles and monsters(these bonuses will also make them cost more per model).

Let's stop trying to make this into a "Evil Geedubs is forcing people to buy the new minis!" thing.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 22:36:53


Post by: JoeRugby


Think I worked this out correctly let me know if I haven’t

How many boyz can 10 Space marines kill in one round with;
Assault bolt riffles
Was 8.44 (10.05 tac doctrine)
Now 5.57 (6.33 tac doctrine) boyz 32% more survivable

Bolt rifles rapid fire
Was 6.7
Now 4.42 boyz 34% more survivable

Bolters rapid fire
Was 5.63 (6.7 tac d)
Now 3.71 (4.42 tac d) boyz 33% more survivable

The was feels fluffier for me



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 22:55:14


Post by: Tyran


Your calcs seem consistent, t4->t5 is a 33% survivality increase vs s4.

Against s5 it is a 25% increase and vs s8-9 it is a 20% increase.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 23:40:48


Post by: Voss


 Jidmah wrote:


To be fair, boyz aren't really worth their point unless right now unless you buff them with a stratagem (that is likely to disappear) and a 300 point character.
8 point boyz most likely were a measure to get the green tide out of tournaments, not because boyz are actually worth 8 points.

With +1T and ap on choppas though? Totally worth 8 points.


Oh I agree. I just don't have faith that GW's assessment will be that they're not currently worth 8. Just that they currently are 8, and are getting buffs, so by GW logic, they need to cost more.
If GW understood they weren't worth 8, they would have gone down in February's point update.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/05/31 23:50:12


Post by: alextroy


Given that GW increased the defense of Necrons and Drukhari without increasing their points, I'd say you are being overly pessimistic.

I must say giving Orks T5 and Grots T3 will help them grow into their current points value. The question is will they do anything to make Shoota Boyz better so that they are not worse than Slugga Boyz with the new improved Choppa?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 01:07:18


Post by: Irbis


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
The "Primaris'ing" of orks?
Make the new troops slightly better so folks with hordes of the old ones now need to buy the new better, shiny, bigger troops?

Ah, yes, just like how primaris were so badly costed in the first three years of 8th (Reivers and primaris tanks being bad still to this day) the squats were far more efficient even with worse statline? And when GW finally managed to make primaris okay idiotic W2 buff that broke the game made them look bad again? Because if that is supposed to be example of evul GW sales plan, it's kinda gakky one

 JoeRugby wrote:
Think I worked this out correctly let me know if I haven’t

How many boyz can 10 Space marines kill in one round with;
Assault bolt riffles
Was 8.44 (10.05 tac doctrine)
Now 5.57 (6.33 tac doctrine) boyz 32% more survivable

Bolt rifles rapid fire
Was 6.7
Now 4.42 boyz 34% more survivable

Bolters rapid fire
Was 5.63 (6.7 tac d)
Now 3.71 (4.42 tac d) boyz 33% more survivable

The was feels fluffier for me

So, 200 points of SM can barely kill 35 pts of orks even with 2 layers of buffs applied? Yup, sure sounds "fluffy" and "balanced"


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 02:02:11


Post by: Daedalus81


 Irbis wrote:
So, 200 points of SM can barely kill 35 pts of orks even with 2 layers of buffs applied? Yup, sure sounds "fluffy" and "balanced"


There's no buffs there?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 03:25:55


Post by: wana10


Edit, these were already released and I'm just blind. ignore this post.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 04:43:21


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:
Voss wrote:
The +1 to hit seems odd to me. I was expecting the snaggas to get +1 to wound against big stuff, it seems far more thematic and useful.

+1 to wound on 20 boyz with 60 attacks sounds a bit too powerful to me.


Yeh. +1 to wound is generally more powerful ability than +1 to wound(full reroll to wounds is in similar way bigger than full reroll to hits). +1 to wound would be sick powerful ability. And would make balancing points nightmare. Super good ability vs vehicles/monsters so need to pay points but if you don't face...you are back to W1 no save guys...

Better less extreme rule, especially conditional ones, tyvm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nurglitch wrote:
Meanwhile, Tyranid Warriors are T4 W3...


Which funny enough makes them tougher vs bolters than orks, tougher vs autocannons.

And of course they are still without codex. At least last time I checked tyranids haven't yet got 9e codex. It's pointless to compare 9e codexes to 8e codexes since GW decided to up the power scale to 11th with new codexes. Just be happy your book is later. Power creep ensures tyranids will stomp orks when they come up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
Orks are not getting cheaper, not with T5 upgrade.


Why not? Immortals have T5 and are brought down to being only 4 points more than Warriors in the new points update.



Rather tesla weapon got price reduction. The superior gauss was already only 4 point more than warriors.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 04:57:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


tneva82 wrote:
It's pointless to compare 9e codexes to 8e codexes...
Except that we have to, because some of these armies are going to be stuck with their 8th Ed books for a while longer.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 07:19:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
It's pointless to compare 9e codexes to 8e codexes...
Except that we have to, because some of these armies are going to be stuck with their 8th Ed books for a while longer.


True, but to bemoan someone got tougher than you before you’ve got your own Codex feels premature.

If Tyranid Warriors go up to T5, they’re gonna be ded tough.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 07:20:58


Post by: Bonde


I think T5 for Orks make a lot of sense actually.
A FnP roll for a horde army would be very cumbersome to deal with - it would be a lot of extra dice rolls every turn, just fishing for sixes.
It also makes Orks behave differently on the tabletop - relying on toughness and weight of numbers, instead of fancy armor saves or multiple wounds with FnP.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 07:48:45


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


I love the T5 change.

The irony is, the Ork is tougher than the average piece of armour he wears! It's a surprisingly good fix and I like the possible design space for duability.

Space marines - Good armour and 2 wounds
DG - T5, armour and wounds
Custodes - SUPER armour and wounds but eye watering price (and invun!)
Ork - Good T
Necron - Decent armour, good T and stand back up again!


I would like my tyranids to have their durability design space around higher wound counts, and maybe lean more into a regeneration factor.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 07:52:25


Post by: Mr_Rose


 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I love the T5 change.

The irony is, the Ork is tougher than the average piece of armour he wears! It's a surprisingly good fix and I like the possible design space for duability.

Space marines - Good armour and 2 wounds
DG - T5, armour and wounds
Custodes - SUPER armour and wounds but eye watering price (and invun!)
Ork - Good T
Necron - Decent armour, good T and stand back up again!


I would like my tyranids to have their durability design space around higher wound counts, and maybe lean more into a regeneration factor.


*imagines a world of T2 W5 ‘gaunts* “gotta blow off all the limbs, see…”
That’s hilarious.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 07:54:51


Post by: JoeRugby


 Irbis wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
The "Primaris'ing" of orks?
Make the new troops slightly better so folks with hordes of the old ones now need to buy the new better, shiny, bigger troops?

Ah, yes, just like how primaris were so badly costed in the first three years of 8th (Reivers and primaris tanks being bad still to this day) the squats were far more efficient even with worse statline? And when GW finally managed to make primaris okay idiotic W2 buff that broke the game made them look bad again? Because if that is supposed to be example of evul GW sales plan, it's kinda gakky one

 JoeRugby wrote:
Think I worked this out correctly let me know if I haven’t

How many boyz can 10 Space marines kill in one round with;
Assault bolt riffles
Was 8.44 (10.05 tac doctrine)
Now 5.57 (6.33 tac doctrine) boyz 32% more survivable

Bolt rifles rapid fire
Was 6.7
Now 4.42 boyz 34% more survivable

Bolters rapid fire
Was 5.63 (6.7 tac d)
Now 3.71 (4.42 tac d) boyz 33% more survivable

The was feels fluffier for me

So, 200 points of SM can barely kill 35 pts of orks even with 2 layers of buffs applied? Yup, sure sounds "fluffy" and "balanced"


You didn't actually read my post did you?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 08:04:49


Post by: Lhunephellion


tneva82 wrote:


It's pointless to compare 9e codexes to 8e codexes since GW decided to up the power scale to 11th with new codexes.


This is a poor game design.

Ok, then go and lets tell Craftworlds, Daemons, Tyranids, GSC, Tau, IK, Chaos IK, Chaos SM, Guard...players that they should stop playing or at least stop their desires to win, because it does not make sense to play until you get your new codex. That is insane.

I have Space Marines and Tyranids. For the Space Marines I already feel quite bad with this HUGE power creep, but man, the armies without codexes like Tyranids...what a bad spot. I've read some post this morning that defines my current feeling:

"I have worries that if they get too aggressive with it(the power creep), we will see veteran players who had re-entered the hobby in 8th grow weary and leave again, concluding that GW are up to the same old tricks."

This is probabbly the feeling my current gaming scene(competitive gaming wise). People that got back in 8th are loosing the interest in the game, because every new codex breaks the game and the meta. It does not matter what you prepare/learn, the next codex will invalidate your previous trainning. This situation is exhausting for players.

Also, people that are ok with T5 Orks priced 8-10 ppm (2A WS 3+, with the AP -1 choppa) are not seeing the big picture. The current 9th armies (not talking about the poor 8th codexes) are not prepared to deal with 120 Boys with T5, they will just take the table, play the mission and then by the time you can play and do something, is turn 4, you lost the game.

This whole post looks like a cry , but this is worrysome for the status of the game.

tneva82 wrote:


Just be happy your book is later. Power creep ensures tyranids will stomp orks when they come up.


Unless GW go back to their senses and make a "tune down" Codex that is not breaking the game and you pay the price for poor game design.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 09:06:26


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I'm only still in 40k for Crusade but stuff like this really does dampen my already limited enthusiasm. My suspension of disbelief is already stretched to the limit when S5/T5 unarmored ork infantry walk up to my S4/T4 Tyranid Warriors.

That they still only have 1 wound only makes it worse. It has never been that orks are hugely difficult to damage in the fluff, it is that they can suffer so much of it before they actually go down with missing flesh/limbs/organs not stopping them. That is obviously a high wounds count, toughness doesn't make sense. That in turn makes it apparent that orks were given T5 instead of W2 because they didn't want them to be similar to marines. Except with BS5+ and armor 6+ they were never going to be in the first place.

It isn't a good change mechanically or thematically. It just makes the game less fun for me.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 09:16:49


Post by: Olthannon


Oh no something different has happened and this is bad. A crime has been committed by the developers of the game. Those little fethers. Can't do a thing right. What fools they are.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 09:18:37


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 Olthannon wrote:
Oh no something different has happened and this is bad. A crime has been committed by the developers of the game. Those little fethers. Can't do a thing right. What fools they are.
Yeah people totally get upset about every change and dislike everything GW does because change is bad and no one has ever expressed positive feelings about a change ever.

Am I doing it right?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 09:52:40


Post by: Blackie


 Lhunephellion wrote:


Ok, then go and lets tell Craftworlds, Daemons, Tyranids, GSC, Tau, IK, Chaos IK, Chaos SM, Guard...players that they should stop playing or at least stop their desires to win, because it does not make sense to play until you get your new codex. That is insane.


Tournaments wise? Absolutely. But tournament players chase the flavour of the month anyway. In casual metas, or games against friends, anyone who own an old codex should get a fair game, if not you're probably playing in an overly toxic environment, which IMHO isn't fun to be in it anyway.

 Lhunephellion wrote:

I have Space Marines and Tyranids. For the Space Marines I already feel quite bad with this HUGE power creep, but man, the armies without codexes like Tyranids...what a bad spot. I've read some post this morning that defines my current feeling:


SM codex is powerful enough to deal with anything, including drukhari. Just learn how to counter them, adjust your lists and make some experience. Maybe you won't get a 50/50 ratio, but out of 10 games you could win 3 or 4 at least, which isn't bad. I used to play with orks against SM, tau and eldar in 7th despite the odds.

 Lhunephellion wrote:

"I have worries that if they get too aggressive with it(the power creep), we will see veteran players who had re-entered the hobby in 8th grow weary and leave again, concluding that GW are up to the same old tricks."

This is probabbly the feeling my current gaming scene(competitive gaming wise). People that got back in 8th are loosing the interest in the game, because every new codex breaks the game and the meta. It does not matter what you prepare/learn, the next codex will invalidate your previous trainning. This situation is exhausting for players.

Also, people that are ok with T5 Orks priced 8-10 ppm (2A WS 3+, with the AP -1 choppa) are not seeing the big picture. The current 9th armies (not talking about the poor 8th codexes) are not prepared to deal with 120 Boys with T5, they will just take the table, play the mission and then by the time you can play and do something, is turn 4, you lost the game.

This whole post looks like a cry , but this is worrysome for the status of the game.



This is some kind of mentality that I can't stand. It implies that people build a single list which is powerful and last forever, while meta needs to be shifted. People should never play with ther entire collections, rather with 30% to 50% in order to make significant changes and be ok pretty much everytime. Also skewed lists should be avoided.

Yes, this means that the majority of players could never be able to play the most optimized OP lists of the moment, but that's the entire point of casual/friendly games.

Current 9th edition armies can definitely deal with 120 boyz with T5, they just need to refine their lists. SM have tons and tons of S4,5,6 weapons, all with some AP, with high rate of fire or tons of attacks in combat: take more of them and less plasma/melta. Of course armies can't deal with 120 T5 boyz AND elite oriented armies at the same time and still be competitive, and they shouldn't. It's called making TACs lists: lists that won't be wonferful against anything but they also won't be terrible against anything.

And don't overestimate AP-1 on troops, since no more than 10-15 will actually be in range to fight. Blood Claws have 4A each at S4 AP-1 (Ap-2 from turn 3) hittin on 2s pretty much everytime, and nobody says they're OP.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 09:52:54


Post by: Nazrak


I think the issue with the 9th ed vs 8th ed Codices thing is that there's literally no solution which would have kept everyone happy.

• Change nothing: people who felt their army needed a boost/adjustment to better represent the fluff in-game get mad.

• Do Index books at the start of the edition again: people get mad their 8th ed Codex has been invalidated.

• Update/tweak profiles as the books are released: people who play factions further back in the queue get mad that they're left lagging behind.

I agree it all feels a bit janky and lopsided at the moment, but in fairness I think the extent of that's been exacerbated by circumstances largely beyond GW's control.

I also think not giving a stopgap update to the really egregious stuff (e.g. some Marines not getting 2W yet) is ridiculous – why not do something like when Chapter Approved gave some little boosts to the 8th ed armies still playing with Indices?

However, it looks an awful lot like GW are ramping up the speed of releases again now the disruption's dying down, so hopefully everyone will have new books sooner rather than later.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 09:58:13


Post by: NinthMusketeer


People aren't expecting to build a single list and have it remain powerful forever, they are just asking that they build a single list then have it remain at least viable for at least an edition. Instead they are being told 'you just have to adapt with a few hundred dollars of additional miniatures plus all the labor it will take to get them looking nice, and they may not even be miniatures you like, but the option is available so it's your fault if the army you do want to run totally sucks now.'

Obviously a bit hyperbolic on my part (mostly...) but the sentiment is there.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:00:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Olthannon wrote:
Oh no something different has happened and this is bad. A crime has been committed by the developers of the game. Those little fethers. Can't do a thing right. What fools they are.
Who are you replying to, other than that scarecrow over there?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:31:15


Post by: tneva82


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm only still in 40k for Crusade but stuff like this really does dampen my already limited enthusiasm. My suspension of disbelief is already stretched to the limit when S5/T5 unarmored ork infantry walk up to my S4/T4 Tyranid Warriors.

That they still only have 1 wound only makes it worse. It has never been that orks are hugely difficult to damage in the fluff, it is that they can suffer so much of it before they actually go down with missing flesh/limbs/organs not stopping them. That is obviously a high wounds count, toughness doesn't make sense. That in turn makes it apparent that orks were given T5 instead of W2 because they didn't want them to be similar to marines. Except with BS5+ and armor 6+ they were never going to be in the first place.

It isn't a good change mechanically or thematically. It just makes the game less fun for me.


Wound count is determined by size for GW. Look at the ork boy. Is that equal in size to tyranid warriors?

And good to know you already know what tyranid warriors are going to be in new codex. Care to share more spoilers?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:31:16


Post by: Blackie


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
People aren't expecting to build a single list and have it remain powerful forever, they are just asking that they build a single list then have it remain at least viable for at least an edition. Instead they are being told 'you just have to adapt with a few hundred dollars of additional miniatures plus all the labor it will take to get them looking nice, and they may not even be miniatures you like, but the option is available so it's your fault if the army you do want to run totally sucks now.'

Obviously a bit hyperbolic on my part (mostly...) but the sentiment is there.


Play smaller formats, like 1000-1250-1500 ones. This way a 2000ish points collection will likely be enough to play decently for an entire edition.

It took me something like 5 years to complete a 2000ish points army, this is a combination of a game and a hobby. I was a child and I'll definitely complete an army that size way faster now but I think that an entire edition is a really small window to complete an army and play with it for long. People that demand EVERYTHING NOW!!! are annoying.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:34:02


Post by: tneva82


 Lhunephellion wrote:


Ok, then go and lets tell Craftworlds, Daemons, Tyranids, GSC, Tau, IK, Chaos IK, Chaos SM, Guard...players that they should stop playing or at least stop their desires to win, because it does not make sense to play until you get your new codex. That is insane.


So GW shouldn't change anything ever whatsoever unless they update every codex at once...

Tyranids get their 9e codex later. That's life in GW games. So admit you want zero new codexes ever again. Or at most new codex with just new codex. Because if they change then other codexes are obviously going to feel like you now and feel unfair because they werent' changed simultaneously.

Marines would be W1 A1 forever etc. Ork boyz S4/T4 no stat changes forever. Tyranid warriors locked S4 T4 W3 forever. No weapon changes whatsoever unless GW changes everything at once.

So. We now know you don't want ever any codexes. GW should have stopped codex changes and no 9e codexes now. Good to know your stance.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:34:28


Post by: Lhunephellion


 Blackie wrote:
Spoiler:
 Lhunephellion wrote:


Ok, then go and lets tell Craftworlds, Daemons, Tyranids, GSC, Tau, IK, Chaos IK, Chaos SM, Guard...players that they should stop playing or at least stop their desires to win, because it does not make sense to play until you get your new codex. That is insane.


Tournaments wise? Absolutely. But tournament players chase the flavour of the month anyway. In casual metas, or games against friends, anyone who own an old codex should get a fair game, if not you're probably playing in an overly toxic environment, which IMHO isn't fun to be in it anyway.


I like playing casual games with friends, but mostly competitive games and going to torunaments and the community around it. That does not implies I am a meta chaser or switch armies every month, so not valid point.
Well, I do not buy your assumption of "overly toxic environment", even when it is friendly, you want to create a good list and play a "fair game" against any army, and even with some of the worst units options, some codex are way ahead on performance from the 8th edition codexes, due to under costed point values or just better unit stats.

 Blackie wrote:


Spoiler:
 Lhunephellion wrote:

I have Space Marines and Tyranids. For the Space Marines I already feel quite bad with this HUGE power creep, but man, the armies without codexes like Tyranids...what a bad spot. I've read some post this morning that defines my current feeling:


SM codex is powerful enough to deal with anything, including drukhari. Just learn how to counter them, adjust your lists and make some experience. Maybe you won't get a 50/50 ratio, but out of 10 games you could win 3 or 4 at least, which isn't bad. I used to play with orks against SM, tau and eldar in 7th despite the odds.

I said feel bad for SM not because they do not have options, but because they are falling behind in the power creep meta (let's not talk about Necrons...).

 Blackie wrote:

Spoiler:
 Lhunephellion wrote:

"I have worries that if they get too aggressive with it(the power creep), we will see veteran players who had re-entered the hobby in 8th grow weary and leave again, concluding that GW are up to the same old tricks."

This is probabbly the feeling my current gaming scene(competitive gaming wise). People that got back in 8th are loosing the interest in the game, because every new codex breaks the game and the meta. It does not matter what you prepare/learn, the next codex will invalidate your previous trainning. This situation is exhausting for players.

Also, people that are ok with T5 Orks priced 8-10 ppm (2A WS 3+, with the AP -1 choppa) are not seeing the big picture. The current 9th armies (not talking about the poor 8th codexes) are not prepared to deal with 120 Boys with T5, they will just take the table, play the mission and then by the time you can play and do something, is turn 4, you lost the game.

This whole post looks like a cry , but this is worrysome for the status of the game.



This is some kind of mentality that I can't stand. It implies that people build a single list which is powerful and last forever, while meta needs to be shifted. People should never play with ther entire collections, rather with 30% to 50% in order to make significant changes and be ok pretty much everytime. Also skewed lists should be avoided.

Yes, this means that the majority of players could never be able to play the most optimized OP lists of the moment, but that's the entire point of casual/friendly games.

Current 9th edition armies can definitely deal with 120 boyz with T5, they just need to refine their lists. SM have tons and tons of S4,5,6 weapons, all with some AP, with high rate of fire or tons of attacks in combat: take more of them and less plasma/melta. Of course armies can't deal with 120 T5 boyz AND elite oriented armies at the same time and still be competitive, and they shouldn't. It's called making TACs lists: lists that won't be wonferful against anything but they also won't be terrible against anything.

And don't overestimate AP-1 on troops, since no more than 10-15 will actually be in range to fight. Blood Claws have 4A each at S4 AP-1 hittin on 2s pretty much everytime, and nobody says they're OP.


I think you got it wrong here. Personally I am totally fine with meta adjustments for the game and a living game. What I am not ok with is that people with different armies desing flexible lists and then they have to throw it to the trash because one codex broke the meta. Then people adjust to the new meta and then two weeks/one month later another codex breaks the game again. IT is ok to have to change some things from a list, but not entirely.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:34:40


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It just makes the game less fun for me.
I can assure you that if they had represented Ork resilience using a mechanic that actually fits thematically (ie. a Feel No Pain save) it would be a lot less fun as you sit there watching endless save rolls.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 10:37:07


Post by: Jidmah


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
With +1T and ap on choppas though? Totally worth 8 points.


Before 9th I would have said they're fine at 8. Now with everyone getting layered it only makes sense for them to stay the same cost and get buffed. Trukk Boyz become more interesting, too.


You mean trukk beast snagga boyz

Too bad that this picture seems to imply that their nob doesn't a propper powerklaw, but the same thing Zodgrod is holding. A "true" PK would have been great with +1 to hit vs big stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
*imagines a world of T2 W5 ‘gaunts* “gotta blow off all the limbs, see…”
That’s hilarious.


Maybe not gaunts, but 4W warriors, raveners or zoantropes? I could totally see that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
People aren't expecting to build a single list and have it remain powerful forever, they are just asking that they build a single list then have it remain at least viable for at least an edition. Instead they are being told 'you just have to adapt with a few hundred dollars of additional miniatures plus all the labor it will take to get them looking nice, and they may not even be miniatures you like, but the option is available so it's your fault if the army you do want to run totally sucks now.'

Obviously a bit hyperbolic on my part (mostly...) but the sentiment is there.


You completely missed his point. You don't need to upgrade your army to handle this problem unless you want to do it in the best possible way, for example because you want to win tournaments.
120 could easily be blown off the table even by casual lists before, and unless all your shooting was S4, your army can most likely still kill enough orks to win, you just won't table them anymore.

And yes, top competitive meta is expensive and time consuming as hell. In other news, the sky is blue, orks are green and water is wet.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 12:13:32


Post by: Blackie


 Lhunephellion wrote:


I think you got it wrong here. Personally I am totally fine with meta adjustments for the game and a living game. What I am not ok with is that people with different armies desing flexible lists and then they have to throw it to the trash because one codex broke the meta. Then people adjust to the new meta and then two weeks/one month later another codex breaks the game again. IT is ok to have to change some things from a list, but not entirely.


But that's true only if you're actually chasing the flavour of the month. SM for example can deal with an horde oriented list just bringing basic stuff. If a SM collection only has anti tank/elite dudes, that's a skew oriented army and not a TAC one and it deserves to be left behind. An average SM collection made out of starters should be reasonably competitive in any casual/friendly meta for example.

As Jidmah said top competitive meta is expensive and time consuming as hell, and IMHO it's a very good thing as most of the players won't be able to field the most powerful combos of the moment, which most of the times aren't even intended by game designers. Let's leave the loyal32+smash captains+castellan knights, 5 stormravens, 30+ ynnari dark reapers, 12-18 smasha gunz, 30+ DT wracks etc... to a very selected environment, with little chances to see one of those powerful combos (from the past and the present) in real life. No new codex will break the meta then. Playing with lists that are and never will be asbolute top tiers but just need minor changes when a new codex drop is actually the best way of playing 40k outside tournaments, and I don't think it's actually something really unusual.

Anyway I haven't seen anything OP in the new ork codex yet. T5 orks means that I can finally play with greenskins units without spamming them. At the moment it's either 90 boyz plus specialists or nothing but a few super cheap specialists, as currently it's easy to wipe 30-40 boyz per turn with TAC lists, even if they are under the 5++ bubble. I'd like to field 10-20-40-50 orks plus vehicles instead, not the 100+ horde and no vehicles archetype or nothing but light and heavy vehicles.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 13:04:43


Post by: jaredb


My space wolves are pretty excited to see orks on the table, always enjoy fighting the greenskins!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 13:55:01


Post by: Commisar Marbh


Plenty of more infoto come on the Orks, so I wouldn't freak out yet. Like what we are seeing with AdMech, Sisters, etc, there will be many, many changes. Some up, some down, some a little of both.

Change is the other constant in 40k. Compare current Primaris marines to Rogue Trader beakies. Think back to 2nd edition armies who laid down enough pie plates to feed a company picnic.

Fluff wise, this can be easily justified, just got done reading the Beast Arises books, and people should be happy they aren't putting in new models of ork bosses the size of morkanaughts with bodyguards the size of dreadnaughts.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 14:15:55


Post by: Mr. Grey


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
People aren't expecting to build a single list and have it remain powerful forever, they are just asking that they build a single list then have it remain at least viable for at least an edition. Instead they are being told 'you just have to adapt with a few hundred dollars of additional miniatures plus all the labor it will take to get them looking nice, and they may not even be miniatures you like, but the option is available so it's your fault if the army you do want to run totally sucks now.'

Obviously a bit hyperbolic on my part (mostly...) but the sentiment is there.


I don't know about you, but I definitely have enough orks in my collection that I can build multiple army lists, especially when I feel like trying something different in the next game. I don't know anyone who builds a single 2,000 point list and then uses that list for every single game for the entire length of an edition.


Anyway I haven't seen anything OP in the new ork codex yet. T5 orks means that I can finally play with greenskins units without spamming them. At the moment it's either 90 boyz plus specialists or nothing but a few super cheap specialists, as currently it's easy to wipe 30-40 boyz per turn with TAC lists, even if they are under the 5++ bubble. I'd like to field 10-20-40-50 orks plus vehicles instead, not the 100+ horde and no vehicles archetype or nothing but light and heavy vehicles.


This, so much. The ork codex has so much cool stuff in it, but it inevitably seems like orks are always reduced to "Green Tide is the only army build that wins anything". I'm hoping that T5 boyz will allow for a bigger variety of lists simply due to the way the higher toughness affects game mechanics.



40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 14:34:08


Post by: TedNugent


 Irbis wrote:


 JoeRugby wrote:
Think I worked this out correctly let me know if I haven’t

How many boyz can 10 Space marines kill in one round with;
Assault bolt riffles
Was 8.44 (10.05 tac doctrine)
Now 5.57 (6.33 tac doctrine) boyz 32% more survivable

Bolt rifles rapid fire
Was 6.7
Now 4.42 boyz 34% more survivable

Bolters rapid fire
Was 5.63 (6.7 tac d)
Now 3.71 (4.42 tac d) boyz 33% more survivable

The was feels fluffier for me

So, 200 points of SM can barely kill 35 pts of orks even with 2 layers of buffs applied? Yup, sure sounds "fluffy" and "balanced"


So, bolter fire against "fluffy and balanced" 18 point MEQ and 20 point intercessor:

Bolt rifle rapid fire
.66*.5*.5*2*10
3.3

Or 33 points worth of intercessors with 200 points of bolt rifle fire.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 14:56:41


Post by: tauist


Personally, I think GW chose the right way to increase Ork survivability. High T value doesn't add any extra dice rolls into the equation, nor extra W bookkeeping for large units.

I'm digging it


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 15:34:14


Post by: Some_Call_Me_Tim


I'm just sad that there's so much bolterporn people can't believe that ork heads live off the body for a few hours, and that with their fungal soup type organs they can have a hole blown through em and be fine.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 15:43:10


Post by: TedNugent


Weird take, the way to take orks down efficiently won't be S5, it would potentially be S3 fire. Notably, if they see any points increase, they actually see a reduction in efficiency against both poison and strength 3. They're still getting an increased resistance against S5 attacks, so that may be a trap.

The humble lasgun will now wound on 5's same as before. If they see a points increase, their survivability efficiency point for point against S3 will drop.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 16:13:57


Post by: Jidmah


 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I'm just sad that there's so much bolterporn people can't believe that ork heads live off the body for a few hours, and that with their fungal soup type organs they can have a hole blown through em and be fine.


More people need to listen to this: https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/the-saga-of-the-beast-mp3-2020.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 TedNugent wrote:
Weird take, the way to take orks down efficiently won't be S5, it would potentially be S3 fire. Notably, if they see any points increase, they actually see a reduction in efficiency against both poison and strength 3. They're still getting an increased resistance against S5 attacks, so that may be a trap.

The humble lasgun will now wound on 5's same as before. If they see a points increase, their survivability efficiency point for point against S3 will drop.


To be fair, one of the humble lasgun's specifically called out qualities is to be able to cut off an ork's head or limb with a well aimed shot


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 16:16:50


Post by: Laughing Man


 TedNugent wrote:
Weird take, the way to take orks down efficiently won't be S5, it would potentially be S3 fire. Notably, if they see any points increase, they actually see a reduction in efficiency against both poison and strength 3. They're still getting an increased resistance against S5 attacks, so that may be a trap.

The humble lasgun will now wound on 5's same as before. If they see a points increase, their survivability efficiency point for point against S3 will drop.

My intercessor's grenade launchers will certainly be getting a workout.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 17:22:24


Post by: Nurglitch


 tauist wrote:
Personally, I think GW chose the right way to increase Ork survivability. High T value doesn't add any extra dice rolls into the equation, nor extra W bookkeeping for large units.

I'm digging it

That's a really good point!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/01 17:44:25


Post by: Tmh


I think people are getting too caught up on the lore matching the rules perfectly. 40k would be a completely unbalanced and unfun game if that was the case. A single custodian could easily solo an entire 2000 point ork army if we go by the lore, but is that really the kind of miniature game we want to be playing? Of course not. There should be plenty of parallels between lore and game mechanics, but it cannot and should not be 1-1.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/02 02:15:31


Post by: Either/Or


T5 orks is really about using the design space opened up by the changes to S and T last edition. T5 is not what it used to be and it is I think helpful to keep perspective on that changed number. This is the other side of the coin as poor Tau pulse weapons loosing clout with the changes from 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
T5 orks is really about using the design space opened up by the changes to S and T last edition. T5 is not what it used to be and it is I think helpful to keep perspective on that changed number. This is the other side of the coin as poor Tau pulse weapons loosing clout with the changes from 8th.

Also, those $$ heavy intercessors are looking even better!


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/02 02:35:26


Post by: Daedalus81


I do wonder if we will see max 20 on boyz.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/02 09:43:42


Post by: Jidmah


 Daedalus81 wrote:
I do wonder if we will see max 20 on boyz.


Likely for beastsnaggas, unlikely for regular boyz.

It's also worth noting that without the green tide rule and the endless green tide stratagem people wouldn't be running mobs of 30 in the first place. In previous editions 20 boyz was the sweet spot between having enough orks to achieve something while not having a huge unwieldy unit that can't get all models in combat.

From a defensive point of view there is not a big difference whether an ork tide is running 4x30 or 6x20 boyz.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/02 09:52:24


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I'm just sad that there's so much bolterporn people can't believe that ork heads live off the body for a few hours, and that with their fungal soup type organs they can have a hole blown through em and be fine.
See that isn't toughness though--toughness would be taking the shot and it failing to cause significant damage. That's never been what orks do; they take damage quite readily but it takes an inhuman amount of it to bring them down. That's multiple wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It just makes the game less fun for me.
I can assure you that if they had represented Ork resilience using a mechanic that actually fits thematically (ie. a Feel No Pain save) it would be a lot less fun as you sit there watching endless save rolls.
An extra wound wouldn't add save rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm only still in 40k for Crusade but stuff like this really does dampen my already limited enthusiasm. My suspension of disbelief is already stretched to the limit when S5/T5 unarmored ork infantry walk up to my S4/T4 Tyranid Warriors.

That they still only have 1 wound only makes it worse. It has never been that orks are hugely difficult to damage in the fluff, it is that they can suffer so much of it before they actually go down with missing flesh/limbs/organs not stopping them. That is obviously a high wounds count, toughness doesn't make sense. That in turn makes it apparent that orks were given T5 instead of W2 because they didn't want them to be similar to marines. Except with BS5+ and armor 6+ they were never going to be in the first place.

It isn't a good change mechanically or thematically. It just makes the game less fun for me.


Wound count is determined by size for GW. Look at the ork boy. Is that equal in size to tyranid warriors?

And good to know you already know what tyranid warriors are going to be in new codex. Care to share more spoilers?
They aren't equal in size to a termagant either. Imagine being so disinterested in good faith discussion that one cannot be bothered to apply first grade math.

And good to know I can already play the new codex now, where can I get it?


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/02 10:26:57


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
An extra wound wouldn't add save rolls.
Still more complicated (and more record keeping) than T5.


40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz. @ 2021/06/02 10:29:17


Post by: Nazrak


Something that's pretty apparent from the discussions around this are that various people have their own ideas of what Toughness and Wounds represent, when they're both really just abstract variables that can represent resilience in different ways. Personally, I don't think there's any way one can argue that one or the other is *objectively* the wrong stat to be using.

Particularly when it comes to Wounds, the W characteristic has always had something of a flexible "meaning", ranging from "this is a big, resilient thing" or "this guy arbitrarily has more wounds so you don't lose your heroes etc too fast, in-game"