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Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/07 23:19:11


Post by: alextroy


First Codex Release Preview article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/31/youre-gonna-need-more-miracle-dice-as-these-new-rules-make-the-adepta-sororitas-holier-than-ever/
Celestians and Melee Weapons Preview article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/01/the-adepta-sororitas-latest-reinforcements-just-love-whacking-things-with-giant-maces/
Crusade Rules article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/02/elevate-a-sister-of-battle-to-living-saint-status-with-the-crusade-rules-in-codex-adepta-sororitas/
Order Convictions: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/04/faithful-serenity-pure-rage-or-just-plain-ol-fire-pick-the-holy-order-thats-perfect-for-your-adepta-sororitas/

Lots of details available on the Warhammer Fest Online Day 2 (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/04/warhammer-fest-online-day-2-warhammer-40000/)
Here's what we know about the confirmed new Codex:
The Adepta Sororitas are getting their biggest and best codex ever – a whopping 128 pages that bring their lore right up to date. This sacred tome comes complete with over 35 datasheets and a suite of Crusade rules that breathe life into the Sisters of Battle on the tabletop.

The codex also introduces rules for Hymns of Battle – inspirational verses sung by the Dogmata that venerate the God-Emperor – and Minoris convictions that give you the option to represent an Order Militant of your own creation on the battlefield.
Also, Miracle Dice are here to stay with minor rules tweaks. This marks it as the first time the Acts of Faith mechanic survived transition to a new "codex".

The Battle Sister Bulletin is back:
  • Celestian Sacresants: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/12/take-the-fight-to-the-heretics-with-the-elite-melee-specialists-of-the-adepta-sororitas/
  • Aestred Thurga: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/26/this-battle-sister-has-it-all-faith-a-sword-and-an-absolutely-massive-banner/
  • Morvenn Vahl: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/10/this-high-lord-of-terra-prefers-the-battlefield-to-the-boardroom/
  • Battle Hymns of the Adepta Sororitas: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/24/the-adepta-sororitas-are-singing-their-way-to-galactic-domination-with-these-hymns-of-battle/

  • The New Models
    Morvenn Vahl, Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas
    Spoiler:
    Aestred Thurga, Reliquant at Arms, and Agathae Dolan, Hagiolater
    Spoiler:
    The Dogmata:
    Spoiler:
    The Palatine:
    Spoiler:
    The Paragon Warsuit:
    Spoiler:
    The Castigator:
    Spoiler:
    The Celestian Sacresants
    Spoiler:

    Datasheet Revisions
    The Triumph of Saint Katherine:
    Spoiler:
    The Exorcist:
    Spoiler:
    Takeaways from the two simplified datasheets:

    The Triumph of Saint Katherine lost 4 attacks at each damage tier. However, it currently has the Sword of Saint Katherine that is limited to 4 attacks each time the unit fought. Change that to 4 bonus attacks with it each time the unit fights and we have no real change to the stats of the model.

    The Exorcist has changed quite a bit.
  • Stat Block has been adjusted to match the Predator exactly (-1 S/T/W, +1 Ld, with same damage tiers)[/list\[list]Exorcist Missile Launcher: Has lost a point of AP. Is now effectively a multi-shot Krak Missile Launcher
  • Exorcist Conflagration Rockets: Lost a point of AP but gained a point of damage. This gives them the same S/AP/D as the Heavy Bolter. Useful for fast rolling



  • Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 00:47:10


    Post by: Vilgeir


    There's some traction with the idea that the Exorcist shifts in role from the only ranged tank hunter to an artillery piece, though we won't know for sure until the full data sheet is seen.

    But more importantly, the missiles shoot straight up!


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 01:08:22


    Post by: Sacredroach


    The more I look at the Dogmata, the more I like her, Capri Sun sucking expression and all.

    Not a complete fan of a revision, but I understand why.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 03:55:17


    Post by: warmaster21


    cant they leave our poor exorcist missiles alone.. they used to be the same AP as melta weapons..


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 04:06:02


    Post by: alextroy


    Apparently not. At least now we can expect both weapon options to be a much closer, if not equal, points value. It wouldn't be too shabby at 165 points for the Exorcist Missile Launcher.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 04:21:08


    Post by: cody.d.


     warmaster21 wrote:
    cant they leave our poor exorcist missiles alone.. they used to be the same AP as melta weapons..


    I thought they always counted as hitting the side armour? To represent the weaker armour most vehicles have on their top.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 04:25:33


    Post by: ZergSmasher


    Not terribly happy to hear about the changes to the Exorcist. I was considering getting two more of them so I could run three in a list because I like them better than Retributors (even though competitively Rets are much better). Now I'll have to reconsider.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 09:30:01


    Post by: A.T.


    cody.d. wrote:
    I thought they always counted as hitting the side armour? To represent the weaker armour most vehicles have on their top.
    They were actually described as melta missiles in the fluff. Never had any indirect or top hitting ability unless you count the odd 'draw line of sight from the barrels, but barrels are not a target' situation in early editions.
    Though the original (mid 3e) exorcist was a BS 3, AV 11, krak-missile armed rhino.

    It may be cheap and/or indirect (or melta weapons may become impractically expensive again) but AP -2 and T7 isn't going to cut it as a direct fire tank destroyer, and AP -2 also takes it out of the running for shooting at some elite infantry to some degree.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 09:53:39


    Post by: Asmodai


     ZergSmasher wrote:
    Not terribly happy to hear about the changes to the Exorcist. I was considering getting two more of them so I could run three in a list because I like them better than Retributors (even though competitively Rets are much better). Now I'll have to reconsider.


    Retributors are a big question mark currently - if they get changed to only carry what's in the box (like is happening with most new Codexes), then they'll be much harder to use effectively.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 10:06:48


    Post by: A.T.


     Asmodai wrote:
    Retributors are a big question mark currently - if they get changed to only carry what's in the box (like is happening with most new Codexes), then they'll be much harder to use effectively.
    Two meltas under the current rules aren't too bad but they lean on a lot of other stuff - cherubs, stratagems, move and shoot, and the current implementation of faith (which never seems to survive an edition change).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 10:25:13


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


    A.T. wrote:
    .. and the current implementation of faith (which never seems to survive an edition change).


    This.

    Given how central this is to Sisters currently, most speculations are kinda moot until we see the new Acts of Faith system.

    Not only has GW been doing widely different things with this in the past, but also all other 9th Ed. Codexes have seen Necron REAP, Drukhari Power from Pain, Death Guard Disgustingly Resilient/Inexorable Advance, even Marine AtsknF, etc.. been re-written.

    And the current Acts of Faith system seems to be getting quite some flak.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 10:26:00


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    Sisters of Battle rumors?

    Come on folks, April Fools was last week!


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 10:30:38


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


     Kid_Kyoto wrote:
    Sisters of Battle rumors?

    Come on folks, April Fools was last week!


    Not really.

    GW released the #new40k video last July with previews for models that would've been the Q3/Q4 Codex releases for 2020 in a "normal year".




    It included the Death Guard Lord of Virulence, Lelith, the AdMech Marshall or whatever it's called, along with the Palatine and an Ork.

    Of course there is no 100% certainty, but it seems highly plausible that with Death Guard, Drukhari and AdMech out/confirmed, Sisters and Orks will be the next two (especially since both also have seen further model-previews).

    The only wrinkle is Bel'akor, who might either lead a Daemons Codex or be a Campaign-book-rules-addition.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 10:54:33


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Sunny Side Up wrote:
    Not really.

    GW released the #new40k video last July with previews for models that would've been the Q3/Q4 Codex releases for 2020 in a "normal year".
    That whistling sound is the sound of the joke going way over your head...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 11:19:36


    Post by: tneva82


    Sunny Side Up wrote:

    Of course there is no 100% certainty, but it seems highly plausible that with Death Guard, Drukhari and AdMech out/confirmed, Sisters and Orks will be the next two (especially since both also have seen further model-previews).



    and new style boxes have been confirmed. Have they done yet any without accompanying codex?

    I was big disbeliever for new codex this soon because it didn't seem neccessary but then again GW doesn't release codexes based on which needs it most so guess not too surprising.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 11:59:01


    Post by: Sarouan


    I wish the Exorcist finally becomes an artillery piece.

    I'm fine with the new profiles (vehicle and weapons) if the cost is adapted or if it can actually fire without LOS. Either outcomes are good for the sisters.

    I guess GW is waiting for the right time to release the new codex / units. It's certainly more a question of having everything from China related to the releases than anything else. Oh, and the pandemic too.


    I feel like the impact will be similar to the new Lumineth, in the end. Meaning at first sight a big deal, but on second sight it's more about giving more variety to lists than really overpowering the army.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 12:16:23


    Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


    Please no new codex! I just bought the BRB for 9th. Now you want me to buy another one when 10th drops???


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 13:50:16


    Post by: bullyboy


    I really hope they don't change too much. The sisters codex is quite good as is, with a few minor tweaks needed to level out the Orders. Fundamental changes are not needed.
    As for the exorcist, I'm ok with a debuff if the points match. It's will going to see play in my lists as its one of the best plastic kits i've put together, and looks amazing (unlike the new Tonka tank).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 14:00:35


    Post by: alextroy


     Asmodai wrote:
     ZergSmasher wrote:
    Not terribly happy to hear about the changes to the Exorcist. I was considering getting two more of them so I could run three in a list because I like them better than Retributors (even though competitively Rets are much better). Now I'll have to reconsider.


    Retributors are a big question mark currently - if they get changed to only carry what's in the box (like is happening with most new Codexes), then they'll be much harder to use effectively.
    This has only happened to a handful of units in each released codex. None of those were heavy weapon units like Retributors, only mainline units like Plague Marines, Deathshroud Terminators, and Wyches. It notably didn't happen to Drukhari Scourges that only have 1 copy of each weapon in the kit. I don't think we have anything to worry about here.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 17:00:46


    Post by: Casbyness


    Remember this is GW we're talking about. The reason they're nerfing the Exorcist is because they want us to buy the Castigator instead. I expect the same will happen with Penitent Engines, because they'll want us to buy a bunch of Paragon Warsuits instead of just using what we purchased last year.

    They'll nerf whatever was most popular last time around (Retributors?) and buff whatever was least popular (Arcos? Repentia?)

    That's how it works.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 17:16:27


    Post by: Sarouan


    TBH, unless they decide to give 2 wounds to all sisters, I don't really see them changing that much. Tweaks here and there for sure (change a bit the rules of the orders so that Bloody Rose doesn't look that appealing in comparison), but the core ? I mean, they won't change the weapon profiles that much, most of them are already used by the rest of the Imperium and we know Space Marines' weapon profiles, don't we. We already use them with the V8 codex anyway (which is why they're still very good in the current V9 meta).

    What is left for change are the "sister specific weapons", and I have no doubt the Castigator's main cannon will have a fancy new name allowing a different profile or something.

    Can live with retributors having more "defined" weapon options (yeah, 4 multi meltas in the same unit are definitely overpowered). But I believe they'll still be sisters wielding the same core imperium heavy weapons like before. Maybe less interesting if you can't optimize like a dirty dog, but hey game balance can be a very mean god.

    I'm more excited to see what they will have as Crusade special options after seeing what they did with the others V9 codexes. Heh.

    I guess they can change the miracle dice mechanism or sacred rites table into something completely different, but I expect it will still be "miracle/faith" focused. I'm more "afraid" if they do like necrons : a lot of small rules that give small situational bonuses (yeah, they matter but it's a lot to remember during a game that isn't lacking in that field already !).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 17:30:58


    Post by: MacPhail


    My biggest hopes: greater parity between Orders, warlord traits, and relics, minimal penalties for mixing Orders, and some really good army specific secondary objectives and special scenarios. If they can nail that, I'll deal with whatever needs and points adjustments come along with it.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 18:01:37


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


     MacPhail wrote:
    My biggest hopes: greater parity between Orders, warlord traits, and relics, minimal penalties for mixing Orders, and some really good army specific secondary objectives and special scenarios. If they can nail that, I'll deal with whatever needs and points adjustments come along with it.


    Yeah. Probably this.

    +1 attack on the charge is just an insanely powerful rule that is way to imbalanced to be an armywide chapter trait (not to mention a non-chapter trait rule an army get's on top for nothing). But that isn't a Sisters-specific issue, really.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 18:06:47


    Post by: Voss


    minimal penalties for mixing Orders,

    Not me. I want severe penalties for mixing any <trait> (order, kultur, chapter, hivefleet, legion, whatever).

    The cherry-picking and unit/keyword wombo-combos need to stop. Multi-subfaction task forces are really rare and should come with a hefty price, not just be free list-tailoring powerups.


     Casbyness wrote:
    Remember this is GW we're talking about. The reason they're nerfing the Exorcist is because they want us to buy the Castigator instead. I expect the same will happen with Penitent Engines, because they'll want us to buy a bunch of Paragon Warsuits instead of just using what we purchased last year.

    They'll nerf whatever was most popular last time around (Retributors?) and buff whatever was least popular (Arcos? Repentia?)

    That's how it works.


    Yep. Its why those Gladiators just flew off the shelves, and every necron player is just chomping at the bit to get Flayed Ones. New is just better and old bad things are suddenly amazing. And primaris as a whole took about three iterations to become even basically viable.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 18:06:58


    Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


    You wanna give sisters two wounds? They are already dominating the meta. What possible justification could there be for 2W sisters? Power Armor? Better Make Custodes 6Ws base.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 18:09:25


    Post by: Necrosis


    FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
    You wanna give sisters two wounds? They are already dominating the meta. What possible justification could there be for 2W sisters? Power Armor? Better Make Custodes 6Ws base.


    I think the idea was that we are not going to see too many big changes. The two wounds was saying nothing crazy like that is going to happen.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 18:21:00


    Post by: Sarouan


    Yep, like Necrosis said.

    Now I'm sure the Parangons will have more than one wound per model, but that's entirely another matter !

    And yes, I agree GW doesn't always make awesome profiles for their new miniatures. That's why I'm not that concerned about the "sister Leman Russ"...I mean, Castigator.

    If we have more "balanced" main orders and maybe even some custom traits for making your own order, it will be good enough for changes. With new relics and command traits, of course. And stratagems.

    But since the sister book was already made late in the V8, I'm pretty willing to bet it will be still be used as core basis for the V9. What we saw with the profiles of the new exorcist and Triumph of Saint Katherine comfort me in that matter : tweaks, but I don't expect huge overhauls that change everything completely.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 18:38:52


    Post by: Sasori


    I don't think there is going to be a ton of Sisters changes. They really just need to adjust the Orders and a few of their stratagems with some points to bring them into balance.

    I kind of expect the Exorcist may become an non-LOS arty piece. Could explain the stats nerf, and I would expect the points to go up for that bonus.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 19:33:29


    Post by: Slayer-Fan123


    Sunny Side Up wrote:
     MacPhail wrote:
    My biggest hopes: greater parity between Orders, warlord traits, and relics, minimal penalties for mixing Orders, and some really good army specific secondary objectives and special scenarios. If they can nail that, I'll deal with whatever needs and points adjustments come along with it.


    Yeah. Probably this.

    +1 attack on the charge is just an insanely powerful rule that is way to imbalanced to be an armywide chapter trait (not to mention a non-chapter trait rule an army get's on top for nothing). But that isn't a Sisters-specific issue, really.

    LOL you ain't serious are you?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 19:43:50


    Post by: Grimskul


    Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
    Sunny Side Up wrote:
     MacPhail wrote:
    My biggest hopes: greater parity between Orders, warlord traits, and relics, minimal penalties for mixing Orders, and some really good army specific secondary objectives and special scenarios. If they can nail that, I'll deal with whatever needs and points adjustments come along with it.


    Yeah. Probably this.

    +1 attack on the charge is just an insanely powerful rule that is way to imbalanced to be an armywide chapter trait (not to mention a non-chapter trait rule an army get's on top for nothing). But that isn't a Sisters-specific issue, really.

    LOL you ain't serious are you?


    Gotta agree with Slayer Fan here, +1A on the charge is not negligible but hardly a game breaking rule. By that logic World Eaters is broken and we barely see them on the competitive side of tournaments outside of Red Butcher Terminators in Chaos Soup.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/08 21:12:07


    Post by: Sarouan


     Grimskul wrote:

    Gotta agree with Slayer Fan here, +1A on the charge is not negligible but hardly a game breaking rule. By that logic World Eaters is broken and we barely see them on the competitive side of tournaments outside of Red Butcher Terminators in Chaos Soup.


    If it was just a +1A on the charge, I guess...but the bonus for the Bloody Rose also applies when being charged or doing an heroic intervention. So basically, it applies most of the time in the game.

    Also, combined with the additionnal -1 to AP melee and pistol attacks makes it a double win.

    When you know sister armies tend to favor close combat...no wonder this order is often met on sister lists based on agressiveness.

    I totally expect the Bloody Rose to be either toned down or the other orders gaining more interesting bonuses. Same for the Valorous Heart.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 04:35:29


    Post by: Lammia


    Sarouan wrote:
     Grimskul wrote:

    Gotta agree with Slayer Fan here, +1A on the charge is not negligible but hardly a game breaking rule. By that logic World Eaters is broken and we barely see them on the competitive side of tournaments outside of Red Butcher Terminators in Chaos Soup.


    If it was just a +1A on the charge, I guess...but the bonus for the Bloody Rose also applies when being charged or doing an heroic intervention. So basically, it applies most of the time in the game.

    Also, combined with the additionnal -1 to AP melee and pistol attacks makes it a double win.

    When you know sister armies tend to favor close combat...no wonder this order is often met on sister lists based on agressiveness.

    I totally expect the Bloody Rose to be either toned down or the other orders gaining more interesting bonuses. Same for the Valorous Heart.
    Well, 3 of the Order Convictions are trash and the other one is 'I really want to try this, but it doesn't actually help me win'. So a buff/more interesting option for the others is what's required


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 05:04:09


    Post by: Racerguy180


    I hope all of the Majoris orders are equally viable. They better have some killer crusade stuff....


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 11:51:38


    Post by: MajorWesJanson


    Sisters feel like they should have a more limited selection of new battle traits, but in return a massive selection of crusade relics. And a crusade mechanic about spreading the faith, similar to de raid territory.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 18:15:48


    Post by: ERJAK


     alextroy wrote:
    Apparently not. At least now we can expect both weapon options to be a much closer, if not equal, points value. It wouldn't be too shabby at 165 points for the Exorcist Missile Launcher.


    That's a joke right? At T7 with less offensive output than an MM immolator on average? If it's more than 110pts it's a paperweight. Even then, there really isn't a place for it unless they tank the entire codex. Even if they butcher retributors down to garbage you just end up not bringing heavy shooting and going fully into melee.




    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Sarouan wrote:
     Grimskul wrote:

    Gotta agree with Slayer Fan here, +1A on the charge is not negligible but hardly a game breaking rule. By that logic World Eaters is broken and we barely see them on the competitive side of tournaments outside of Red Butcher Terminators in Chaos Soup.


    If it was just a +1A on the charge, I guess...but the bonus for the Bloody Rose also applies when being charged or doing an heroic intervention. So basically, it applies most of the time in the game.

    Also, combined with the additionnal -1 to AP melee and pistol attacks makes it a double win.

    When you know sister armies tend to favor close combat...no wonder this order is often met on sister lists based on agressiveness.

    I totally expect the Bloody Rose to be either toned down or the other orders gaining more interesting bonuses. Same for the Valorous Heart.


    Everybody wants to nerf sisters the moment they get anything good, lol. Sisters are fine as they are right now, strong but in a way that's fair.

    I actually HATE that we're getting a new codex because it IS going to be utter garbage. These new data sheets are just the beginning of the end of only the second time in 9 editions where sisters were competitive (the other being in the indexes). The current dex is about as good as GW gets and they're going to trash it for the sake of trashing it.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Asmodai wrote:
     ZergSmasher wrote:
    Not terribly happy to hear about the changes to the Exorcist. I was considering getting two more of them so I could run three in a list because I like them better than Retributors (even though competitively Rets are much better). Now I'll have to reconsider.


    Retributors are a big question mark currently - if they get changed to only carry what's in the box (like is happening with most new Codexes), then they'll be much harder to use effectively.


    (read: They'll only ever take 2 guns per squad.)


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Casbyness wrote:
    Remember this is GW we're talking about. The reason they're nerfing the Exorcist is because they want us to buy the Castigator instead. I expect the same will happen with Penitent Engines, because they'll want us to buy a bunch of Paragon Warsuits instead of just using what we purchased last year.

    They'll nerf whatever was most popular last time around (Retributors?) and buff whatever was least popular (Arcos? Repentia?)

    That's how it works.


    Really, is that why the stormspeeder and gladiator kits are flying off the shelves right now?

    GW aren't competent enough for that strategy to work. Everytime they try they just end up either changing nothing or tanking the entire army and still not getting people to buy the new kits. All their successful units are accidents.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 22:12:02


    Post by: Sarouan


    ERJAK wrote:

    I actually HATE that we're getting a new codex because it IS going to be utter garbage. These new data sheets are just the beginning of the end of only the second time in 9 editions where sisters were competitive (the other being in the indexes). The current dex is about as good as GW gets and they're going to trash it for the sake of trashing it.


    Keep playing with the current codex, then. Problem solved.

    If you're as agressive IRL as you are on this forum, granted, you may have trouble to find people allowing you to do so when the V9 codex will be available.

    Otherwise, believe what you want, even when you don't know what will be in the V9 codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 23:16:44


    Post by: alextroy


    I have to agree. GW has done a great job so far with the 9th Edition Codexes. Going on a whingfest because two datasheets lacking special rules have been released is overboard. Chill and wait to see what comes.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 23:17:41


    Post by: Galas


    Sisters of Battle have only one place to go but down.

    I expect Acts of Faith to be nerfed, because even if people tought they were a nerf from their old incarnation, they have end up being one of the most powerfull parts of the codex.

    Outside of that, I believe sisters have very good rules. Is just that the amount of sinergy they can musters make some of their options way too cheap for what they can doo.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/11 23:35:53


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     alextroy wrote:
    GW has done a great job so far with the 9th Edition Codexes.
    As long as you weren't big fans of Plague Marines, Terminators, Wyches and every other future unit that's going to suffer from GW's asinine weapon option rules.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 00:56:22


    Post by: Voss


     alextroy wrote:
    I have to agree. GW has done a great job so far with the 9th Edition Codexes. Going on a whingfest because two datasheets lacking special rules have been released is overboard. Chill and wait to see what comes.


    Its a complaint that doesn't make any sense, anyway. None of the new instruction book datasheets have special rules. They're intentionally omitted so they don't have to pay for translations on the instruction booklets- its a policy that started at the beginning of 9th, and has no bearing on any special rules the units continue to have.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 01:46:19


    Post by: drbored


    A bit sad to see the Exorcist missiles nerfed a bit, but I'll reserve judgment till I see points. Hopefully makes it less of an auto-include when compared to the other Heavy slots and the Castigator.

    For the release timeframe, it really comes down to how quickly GW releases all the other things they have coming.

    Belakor preorders next week, then I'd bet on Admech the week after that. Nice and simple, we've already seen the book cover, etc.

    But then we still have Kragnos, Soulblight, a dozen little releases here and there, and then Sisters and later on Orks.

    All of those things have a big ? over their heads in terms of what we're getting and when we're getting them. We still don't really know what Kragnos is, we don't know if Soulblight are getting any other model releases or when they'll drop, we don't know if Sisters are going to be getting anything else, and we've only seen one out of multiple kits that Orks are going to get.

    And we're still expecting AoS 3rd edition, which we haven't heard squat about.

    I kinda hope that near the end of April we get a few of these questions answered so we can start planning accordingly.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 01:49:44


    Post by: bullyboy


    Only downside is that the codex is very good right now, and relatively new. Sucks to replace it so soon, which would be easier to swallow if it was a terrible codex
    This is exacerbated when you look at some of the other codexes that are desperate for an upgrade.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 04:13:09


    Post by: jivardi


    drbored wrote:
    A bit sad to see the Exorcist missiles nerfed a bit, but I'll reserve judgment till I see points. Hopefully makes it less of an auto-include when compared to the other Heavy slots and the Castigator.

    For the release timeframe, it really comes down to how quickly GW releases all the other things they have coming.

    Belakor preorders next week, then I'd bet on Admech the week after that. Nice and simple, we've already seen the book cover, etc.

    But then we still have Kragnos, Soulblight, a dozen little releases here and there, and then Sisters and later on Orks.

    All of those things have a big ? over their heads in terms of what we're getting and when we're getting them. We still don't really know what Kragnos is, we don't know if Soulblight are getting any other model releases or when they'll drop, we don't know if Sisters are going to be getting anything else, and we've only seen one out of multiple kits that Orks are going to get.

    And we're still expecting AoS 3rd edition, which we haven't heard squat about.

    I kinda hope that near the end of April we get a few of these questions answered so we can start planning accordingly.


    Belak'or preorder next week? how'd I miss that? Poor wallet :(


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 05:02:59


    Post by: tneva82


     Galas wrote:
    Sisters of Battle have only one place to go but down.

    I expect Acts of Faith to be nerfed, because even if people tought they were a nerf from their old incarnation, they have end up being one of the most powerfull parts of the codex.

    Outside of that, I believe sisters have very good rules. Is just that the amount of sinergy they can musters make some of their options way too cheap for what they can doo.


    One could have thought same about marines yet they got buff instead


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    drbored wrote:
    A bit sad to see the Exorcist missiles nerfed a bit, but I'll reserve judgment till I see points. Hopefully makes it less of an auto-include when compared to the other Heavy slots and the Castigator.

    For the release timeframe, it really comes down to how quickly GW releases all the other things they have coming.

    Belakor preorders next week, then I'd bet on Admech the week after that. Nice and simple, we've already seen the book cover, etc.

    But then we still have Kragnos, Soulblight, a dozen little releases here and there, and then Sisters and later on Orks.

    All of those things have a big ? over their heads in terms of what we're getting and when we're getting them. We still don't really know what Kragnos is, we don't know if Soulblight are getting any other model releases or when they'll drop, we don't know if Sisters are going to be getting anything else, and we've only seen one out of multiple kits that Orks are going to get.

    And we're still expecting AoS 3rd edition, which we haven't heard squat about.

    I kinda hope that near the end of April we get a few of these questions answered so we can start planning accordingly.


    Sister models got february. Thus safe to bet they come may since gw shows up to 3 months. Orks likely june. Ao#3 will be july or august so announcement isnt likely to come soon.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    jivardi wrote:

    Belak'or preorder next week? how'd I miss that? Poor wallet :(


    By forgetting to press f5 on whc on sunday be'lakor, new characters for stormcast and nighuhaunt and couple army boxes. Which are tempting me to go for stegadon list.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 10:53:47


    Post by: Blackie


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
     alextroy wrote:
    GW has done a great job so far with the 9th Edition Codexes.
    As long as you weren't big fans of Plague Marines, Terminators, Wyches and every other future unit that's going to suffer from GW's asinine weapon option rules.


    Still, termies and wyches are finally good after years of oblivion. I'd take those "asinine weapon option rules" anytime if that's the overall result.

    In my opinion those rules are also the opposite of being asinine as now someone can max out his unit without being forced to get multiple boxes of the same kit or convert stuff.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:08:56


    Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


    Out of nowhere.

    That’s right, folks – the Battle Sister Bulletin is back! As with our very first series on the Adepta Sororitas, which built up to the launch of their hotly anticipated plastic range, we’ll be bringing you a new instalment every couple of weeks, complete with reveals of upcoming miniatures, artwork, rules, and more.

    In this instalment, we’re introducing a new division of the Celestians – the fighting elite of the Orders Militant – known as Celestian Sacresants. Like their Celestian sisters, Sacresants traditionally act as bodyguards to the heads of their Order, but they’re also tasked with another holy duty – purging the impure and driving them from sites of sacred significance on the battlefield.

    As a Celestian, each Sacresant is a highly skilled warrior, able to overcome many times her own number in battle. Sacresants wield a variety of blessed polearms and maces with which to smite the unclean, and bear large, ornate shields to ward off the blows of their enemies. Protected in both body and spirit, Celestian Sacresants are the wall against which waves of heretics will break.

    So, now you know who they are, take a look at these fearsome new Battle Sisters!

    Imperious poses? Check.

    Cool shields? Check.

    Massive, heretic-smiting weapons? Check.

    Excellent.

    What’s more, the Adepta Sororitas finally has a heavily armoured close combat unit with some serious staying power. The Celestian Sacresants will certainly look great in your collection, as they really stand apart from the crowd.

    Speaking of which, this awesome new unit is on its way soon, so if you want to make sure you already have an Adepta Sororitas collection to add them to, grab yourself a Battle Sisters Squad or two today.*


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Oooh, there’s a Bolt weapon tucked behind the shield.

    [Thumb - 67FA8FD9-460F-414B-9E3C-AFE07A84173D.jpeg]


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:14:50


    Post by: ImAGeek


    Big fan of that.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:22:04


    Post by: zamerion


    an article every two weeks .. so a big renovation is expected (even more) and within a long time?

    Orks first?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:29:01


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


    zamerion wrote:
    an article every two weeks .. so a big renovation is expected (even more) and within a long time?

    Orks first?


    Maybe? But Sister-previews started a bit earlier with the Paragon Warsuit.

    If Codexes are somewhat analog to previews, I'd expect Admech > Sisters > Orks

    (With Bel'akor just sitting on a pdf? campaign book?)



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:42:31


    Post by: Platuan4th


    Sunny Side Up wrote:
    zamerion wrote:
    an article every two weeks .. so a big renovation is expected (even more) and within a long time?

    Orks first?


    Maybe? But Sister-previews started a bit earlier with the Paragon Warsuit.

    If Codexes are somewhat analog to previews, I'd expect Admech > Sisters > Orks

    (With Bel'akor just sitting on a pdf? campaign book?)



    Personally, I expect he'll be in Charadon Act 2.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:48:19


    Post by: Lord Damocles


    Yay. Duplicate the role of Crusaders.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 11:48:35


    Post by: KurtAngle2


    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:00:46


    Post by: posermcbogus


    Maybe it's because I'm using a halberd in Dark Souls rn, but that is an absolutely gorgeous mini - could maybe use a head and backpack swap, but damn. I guess this is the equivalent exchange for the nundams.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:01:56


    Post by: dan2026


    I’m actually starting to get to the point where I feel there are too many new Sisters releases lol.

    Can Eldar get some of this love GW?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:12:23


    Post by: Mothman


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    While I agree on the sisters predator tank im not sure I agree on these being a carbon copy of marines. Its sisters with a new weapon, any sisters with a new weapon will just be "a marine copy", give them sword and shield they are blade guards, bolt pistol and chainsword= just assault marines, give them heavier armour = just terminators, give them lighter armour = just scouts, More flamers = just salamanders

    Marine have so many options, I would argue outside of penitent engines, the triumph and repentia all sisters models are "just marine copies with a few candles" exorcist=whirlwind immolator=razerback penitent engine could be argued as "just an edgy sisters dreadnought" and repentia just being religious less armoured choppy sisters are just black templar crusade squads.

    I think only units they could get now that are not just "marine copies" would be drop churches and sisters on horses. Though really that's just a bigger planetfall bunker and bikers.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:12:31


    Post by: Galas


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    How? Now anything with a shield is a marine? Are Lychguard marines in disguise? (Now the new sister predator is boring as feth but also was the rhino and most imperial vehicles. Thats what most people wanted, no? STC! STANDARISATION!)

    Personally I always wanted sisters of battle with shields and spears. Halberds works too, even better if you ask me. The shield personally, at least in that colour, I don't like it that much.

    Now give me crusaders in bikes with explosive spears. Give me bretonnia reborn SHINY AND CROME.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:18:34


    Post by: KurtAngle2


     Galas wrote:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    How? Now anything with a shield is a marine? Are Lychguard marines in disguise? (Now the new sister predator is boring as feth but also was the rhino and most imperial vehicles. Thats what most people wanted, no? STC! STANDARISATION!)

    Personally I always wanted sisters of battle with shields and spears. Halberds works too, even better if you ask me. The shield personally, at least in that colour, I don't like it that much.

    Now give me crusaders in bikes with explosive spears. Give me bretonnia reborn SHINY AND CROME.


    Except that the "Human with shields" space design was already taken by Crusaders, the could have used something different instead of a "Bladeguard/Lychguard with a Lance" concept


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:25:08


    Post by: Marshal Loss


    Absolutely love the new melee Celestians, super cool


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:25:40


    Post by: Lammia


     Lord Damocles wrote:
    Yay. Duplicate the role of Crusaders.
    You say that like Crusaders have a role


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:39:14


    Post by: Galas


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
     Galas wrote:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    How? Now anything with a shield is a marine? Are Lychguard marines in disguise? (Now the new sister predator is boring as feth but also was the rhino and most imperial vehicles. Thats what most people wanted, no? STC! STANDARISATION!)

    Personally I always wanted sisters of battle with shields and spears. Halberds works too, even better if you ask me. The shield personally, at least in that colour, I don't like it that much.

    Now give me crusaders in bikes with explosive spears. Give me bretonnia reborn SHINY AND CROME.


    Except that the "Human with shields" space design was already taken by Crusaders, the could have used something different instead of a "Bladeguard/Lychguard with a Lance" concept


    Crusaders are a freakshow unit like Death Cult Assasins and not proper Adeptas Sororitas. I mean, I love crusaders, but lets not pretend they are in the radar for GW.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:39:32


    Post by: Shadox


    Really like that one.

    The only gripe I have is the pistol in the shield. Without it the halberd would at least seem to be somewhat handable. Like this? She has to use that whole thing with one arm.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:44:23


    Post by: Blackie


    Those new models fill up a role that no plastic GW kit provides (heavy armored infantries), so I'm a big fan of those terminator style sisters.

    Crusaders are still legacy of the old metal roster, they need to be either phased out or updated with a plastic kit. These girls can be the right solution.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:46:13


    Post by: bullyboy


    Like Galas, I'm not loving that shield, although it may be just the colour they chose. The rest is great.
    Wonder why they chose the words "future publication" rather than just specifically state new codex?

    This is another model taken from the image in the stained glass window (well, melee sisters, and it did state maces would be options too).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:54:40


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Because there's a possibility that the "future publication" was both a new codex and a supplement book.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:58:11


    Post by: Quasistellar


    or Charadon act 2


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:59:06


    Post by: Tygre


    A minor quibble is how can she use a polearm with 1 hand. You need two hands to use a polearm, but one hand is holding the shield. Can they sling the shields on their back, or something (magnetics like marines?), during melee?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 12:59:51


    Post by: the_scotsman


    Sisters of Battle continue the herculean task of preserving the actual good 40k imperial aesthetic ball that's been so epically dropped by primaris space marines and Steampunkus Mechanicus.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:07:49


    Post by: GaroRobe


    The first of the new sister models I'm actually excited for (Palantine is cool too.)

    Interesting that its a unit. Wonder what else we've got coming


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:22:42


    Post by: Platuan4th


    Lammia wrote:
     Lord Damocles wrote:
    Yay. Duplicate the role of Crusaders.
    You say that like Crusaders have a role


    You both say that like Crusaders won't eventually be squatted for not having a plastic kit.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:24:09


    Post by: Kanluwen


     Platuan4th wrote:
    Lammia wrote:
     Lord Damocles wrote:
    Yay. Duplicate the role of Crusaders.
    You say that like Crusaders have a role


    You both say that like Crusaders won't eventually be squatted for not having a plastic kit.

    We know that there's been some movement towards a CAD file at least, given the gent from Escalation/Combat Arena.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:28:42


    Post by: Fergie0044


    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    Given that we've seen the 'not predator' and now the 'not bladeguard' I can't agree more. But it's hard to complain when the model is so good looking...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:28:45


    Post by: Esmer


    I sure hope that Sororita isn't holding her shield with her hand but rather, that it's attached to her glove armor, because a polearm is decisively not a one-handed weapon.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:34:15


    Post by: tneva82


    It's 40k.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:41:25


    Post by: Kanluwen


    It looks to be similar to the 'Combat Shields' we see on Marines, with an integrated bolt pistol and a clamp that locks the shield around the arm.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 13:51:04


    Post by: Captain Joystick


    There is a certain precedent for art depicting people wielding a halberd in one hand and a shield in the other and the exact reasoning behind those depictions we don't rightly know today.

    As for the celestian here, I don't think we know 100% the intention until we can get an in-person look at the mini and see how the shield is supposed to be attached, but like what's been said elsewhere it could be strapped to the arm allowing the hand to grip the halberd, or it could be intended to be wielded as the celestians close ranks, then dropped as they enter melee range. or kept up by the foreward rank while the rear ranks chop down.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 14:10:16


    Post by: streetsamurai


    This new wave of sob is pretty bad so far imo. This melee unit is not as bad as the not-terminators, but i dont really like it either. Shame since i really liked pretty much all of the models of the first release


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 14:11:55


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     Galas wrote:
    Crusaders are a freakshow unit like Death Cult Assasins and not proper Adeptas Sororitas. I mean, I love crusaders, but lets not pretend they are in the radar for GW.
    I'd be surprised if either unit made it into the next Codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 14:15:10


    Post by: the_scotsman


     Fergie0044 wrote:
    KurtAngle2 wrote:
    I hate the new direction these Sisters haven taken, they are carbon copy of Marines concepts but "female version" and I just can't accept this


    Given that we've seen the 'not predator' and now the 'not bladeguard' I can't agree more. But it's hard to complain when the model is so good looking...


    ...What marine unit is the mini walker suit with the heavy bolter and the sword copying? You know Killa Kanz aren't a marine unit right? Also the new tank is literally a blinged up Leman Russ, isn't it? With a battlecannon and everything?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 14:28:30


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    GW, this isn't how you use a long halberd or equip an halbardier...


    Beyond that it's an nice model, but with shield no. just no. Remove shield make halbedier work again.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 14:48:40


    Post by: Gadzilla666


    How is she supposed to use a long halberd, plus a shield, PLUS a bolter?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 14:58:42


    Post by: beast_gts


     Gadzilla666 wrote:
    How is she supposed to use a long halberd, plus a shield, PLUS a bolter?


    I'm hoping the bolter is part of the shield, and the shield is strapped to her arm... but it's GW so who knows?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:25:07


    Post by: KidCthulhu


    EDIT: Nevermind


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:33:30


    Post by: John Prins


     Gadzilla666 wrote:
    How is she supposed to use a long halberd, plus a shield, PLUS a bolter?


    My personal assumption is power armor.

    Look at your average bolter, it's the size of a human torso but sisters are modeled using it one handed in some cases. Because they have power armor. I have little problem with them using polearms one handed for the same reason.

    That said, I agree that polearm + shield w/ bolt (pistol?) weapon is a bit dumb from a practical perspective, but you can model them with maces if you want.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:39:20


    Post by: Porphyrius


    beast_gts wrote:
     Gadzilla666 wrote:
    How is she supposed to use a long halberd, plus a shield, PLUS a bolter?


    I'm hoping the bolter is part of the shield, and the shield is strapped to her arm... but it's GW so who knows?


    I’m assuming this to be the case, like with the Combat Shield on a SM company champion.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:43:03


    Post by: Sacredroach


    Utterly impractical and over the top.

    I must have at least 2 units of these.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:46:08


    Post by: Fergie0044


    the_scotsman wrote:
    ...What marine unit is the mini walker suit with the heavy bolter and the sword copying? You know Killa Kanz aren't a marine unit right? Also the new tank is literally a blinged up Leman Russ, isn't it? With a battlecannon and everything?


    Ah, I see you've purged the Invictor Tactical Warsuit from your memory. I don't blame you, that model is a monstrosity and I too wish I could forget it existed.

    I also think the new SoB tank has a lot more in common with the Predator than the Leman Russ, looking at the main body and tracks.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:46:26


    Post by: Shadox


     Porphyrius wrote:
    beast_gts wrote:
     Gadzilla666 wrote:
    How is she supposed to use a long halberd, plus a shield, PLUS a bolter?


    I'm hoping the bolter is part of the shield, and the shield is strapped to her arm... but it's GW so who knows?


    I’m assuming this to be the case, like with the Combat Shield on a SM company champion.


    So far SMs only had either a pistol or strapped to the arm not both.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:48:24


    Post by: EightFoldPath


    My concern with these Sisters releases is like Marines they seem to be just producing new kits to cover ever more weaknesses.

    I'm not going to worry too much though until they start producing one supplement for each sister's order.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:48:50


    Post by: Slayer-Fan123


     Fergie0044 wrote:
    the_scotsman wrote:
    ...What marine unit is the mini walker suit with the heavy bolter and the sword copying? You know Killa Kanz aren't a marine unit right? Also the new tank is literally a blinged up Leman Russ, isn't it? With a battlecannon and everything?


    Ah, I see you've purged the Invictor Tactical Warsuit from your memory. I don't blame you, that model is a monstrosity and I too wish I could forget it existed.

    I also think the new SoB tank has a lot more in common with the Predator than the Leman Russ, looking at the main body and tracks.

    What's wrong with the Invictor? The Heavy Bolter being used as a Pistol is kinda silly but I'm fine with it otherwise.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:49:57


    Post by: Oguhmek


    Yup, that's the way, keep 'em coming. Sisters have a lot of really cool stuff now. Love the fact how they first gave us new versions of all the old stuff, and now keep adding new stuff as well.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 15:56:27


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    I’d rather have had a plastic crusaders kit. It used to be all the weirdness of crusaders, death cultists and inquisitors that could accompany a Witch Hunters army, that gave it such a wonderful flavour. Adepta Sororitas are in danger of becoming as bland and the rest of 40K.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:07:19


    Post by: El Torro


    Good to see the Sisters range getting expanded. People were happy of course when the whole existing range was moved to plastic, but now they’re actually getting fleshed out more to be a stand alone faction. I find some of the new design choices a bit dubious but that’s partly a matter of personal opinion of course.

    Personally I would have preferred a new kit for Crusaders, cos then I could also use them in my Guard army. Assuming they got updated rules too of course. Never mind.

    Makes me wonder what’s going to happen to Deathcult Assassins too.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:12:29


    Post by: Irbis


    Not Online!!! wrote:
    GW, this isn't how you use a long halberd or equip an halbardier...

    Beyond that it's an nice model, but with shield no. just no. Remove shield make halbedier work again.

    Maybe you should tell the actual medieval halberd users they were doing it wrong then:




    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:18:18


    Post by: Captain Joystick


    Not Online!!! wrote:GW, this isn't how you use a long halberd or equip an halbardier...


    Gadzilla666 wrote: How is she supposed to use a long halberd, plus a shield, PLUS a bolter?


    Once again: there is a historical precedent for equipping people with halberds and shields, its tricky, but it's there.

    Also, I've never heard the term 'long halberd' before, but the one pictured is not particularly long given GW's typical scaling issues for things like spears.


    the_scotsman wrote:...What marine unit is the mini walker suit with the heavy bolter and the sword copying? You know Killa Kanz aren't a marine unit right?


    Depending on its performance I'd say it's nearest astartes neighbor is a hybrid assault/devastator centurion and I'm shocked people stretch so far to compare them to terminators.


    the_scotsman wrote:Also the new tank is literally a blinged up Leman Russ, isn't it? With a battlecannon and everything?


    That depends entirely on its rules. If it had the toughness of an Exorcist in the current sisters codex then yes, it'd essentially be a Russ, but if its in line with the exorcist's leaked statline it'll be a Pred with a battle cannon.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:28:29


    Post by: the_scotsman


     Irbis wrote:
    Not Online!!! wrote:
    GW, this isn't how you use a long halberd or equip an halbardier...

    Beyond that it's an nice model, but with shield no. just no. Remove shield make halbedier work again.

    Maybe you should tell the actual medieval halberd users they were doing it wrong then:




    People always make the mistake of looking at a halberd and assuming that it's intended to be used as a mega-axe. A Halberd is a spear with a bonus 'pull a guy off a horse' feature attached to it.

    Of course, there is also the historical precedent that some medieval weapons simply weren't very good at their intended function. Take flails, for example. The concept is sound - it's a blunt force weapon, meaning it's good for just crunching people right through armor like a mace is and it won't break like a sword if you hit a guy wearing armor with it, but unlike a mace hitting something doesn't transmit the force right back to the rider's arm, so you can use it to bash people you're riding by on a horse and you're less likely to drop it when you hit somebody.

    However, any primary source writing about people using them is basically just like 'well Sir Flumplewald had to kill a perfectly good horse today, flail bounced off a practice dummy and smashed into his horse's flank, these things are idiotic we're going back to pointed sticks.'

    My favorite quote on flails is "a novice will hit themselves. A master will hit themselves less."


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:40:42


    Post by: Mr Morden


    I would have prefered a Spear rather than a Halberd but the model is nice and if thats a Storm Shield - thats also nice

    thumbs up


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:42:03


    Post by: ceorron


    Three thumbs up for this model. Like few others but this is really something.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:48:26


    Post by: Ghaz


     Mr Morden wrote:
    I would have prefered a Spear rather than a Halberd but the model is nice and if thats a Storm Shield - thats also nice

    thumbs up

    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    Spoiler:


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 16:55:31


    Post by: Tyel


    As the video says - there are various reasons you might carry shields around with you, but not many for why you'd want to try fighting holding a halberd in one hand and a shield in the other.

    But really rule of cool applies. The model looks good to me.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:02:47


    Post by: Hollow


    I've always found the debates on whether something would be practical in real life when talking about 40k models, to be scrapping the very bottom of the lowest of barrels. It literally makes no sense. There isn't a single model. NOT A SINGLE MODEL in the entire line that would make sense in a real-world setting. NOT ONE.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:03:57


    Post by: Lord Damocles


     Ghaz wrote:
    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    If only there was already a unit which was Swiss Guard in space.

    If only...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:05:08


    Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


     Captain Joystick wrote:
    There is a certain precedent for art depicting people wielding a halberd in one hand and a shield in the other and the exact reasoning behind those depictions we don't rightly know today.

    As for the celestian here, I don't think we know 100% the intention until we can get an in-person look at the mini and see how the shield is supposed to be attached, but like what's been said elsewhere it could be strapped to the arm allowing the hand to grip the halberd, or it could be intended to be wielded as the celestians close ranks, then dropped as they enter melee range. or kept up by the foreward rank while the rear ranks chop down.


    In the 'real' world people need 2 hands to use a halberd with anything like effectiveness, but in the grimdark far future with power armour is that really the case? I suspect not with a lot of the work of holding and controlling the weight being handled by the power armour (and the power field on the weapon doing a lot of the damage too)


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:18:28


    Post by: warmaster21


    You can use a halberd in 1 hand you would just be using it like a spear and losing out on the effectiveness of the option to use the axe head and back spike

    However since it looks like a power halberd its not like you need any force behind the axe or spike to do damage so using it in 1 hand would not be an issue anyways

    and since halberds are one of my favorite polearms I'm happy to see it for sisters.

    Iv wanted melee seraphim, a melee sister unit that wasnt a repentia and iv gotten both so yay!...

    As for taking up the space of crusaders.... they should just give crusaders the bodyguard rule and that would give them an actual purpose...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:25:13


    Post by: Mr Morden


    Apparently the Halberd is only one of the melee weapon options as well.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:46:45


    Post by: Argive


    Feels like sisters becoming the new primiaris marines but with boobplate... It seems they carrying on with the primaris design approach. Make lots of prospect designs. Then just say "feth it" release them all!!!! gime that sweet $$$...

    Arco flagellants and especially repentia are an absolute blender unit. I fear we wont see them on the table much because storm shields are just going to be too good to pass up due to lethality.. Seems because SM have OP things and cover all the weakspots, other imperials need to have it too. Dont like this approach.

    I really like crusaders aesthetic and fluff would have preferred a remake of those gus. This is just bland stuff blatantly trying to copy custodes/spacemarine "power armour person with shield and CC weapon but NEW".



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 17:57:59


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Irbis wrote:
    Not Online!!! wrote:
    GW, this isn't how you use a long halberd or equip an halbardier...

    Beyond that it's an nice model, but with shield no. just no. Remove shield make halbedier work again.

    Maybe you should tell the actual medieval halberd users they were doing it wrong then:



    Have you actually listened to that video yourself?

    He points out that there is an artist that painted it that way, that doen't mean that it was true for one.
    Just for the sake of argument:



    For two, Even if it were the case there's still no usage as an combat shield proven comparatively to what is depicted as probably a pavese (basically carry and deployable cover) type of deal, cue also mentioned in the video.

    For three, have you actually had the pleassure to handle such a thing? I had with a replica, let me tell you just outright, no.



    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Ghaz wrote:
     Mr Morden wrote:
    I would have prefered a Spear rather than a Halberd but the model is nice and if thats a Storm Shield - thats also nice

    thumbs up

    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    Spoiler:

    neither does the shield


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 18:02:10


    Post by: Ghaz


    Not Online!!! wrote:

     Ghaz wrote:
     Mr Morden wrote:
    I would have prefered a Spear rather than a Halberd but the model is nice and if thats a Storm Shield - thats also nice

    thumbs up

    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    Spoiler:

    neither does the shield

    Adding a shield isn't as bad as switching the halberd for a spear would have been.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 18:04:02


    Post by: PondaNagura


    I haven't purchased anything from GW since 5th edition and honestly thought I never would again, but the new sister stuff (and all the conversion ideas percolating in my head), I might have to break this fast and get the dex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 18:08:13


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Ghaz wrote:
    Not Online!!! wrote:

     Ghaz wrote:
     Mr Morden wrote:
    I would have prefered a Spear rather than a Halberd but the model is nice and if thats a Storm Shield - thats also nice

    thumbs up

    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    Spoiler:

    neither does the shield

    Adding a shield isn't as bad as switching the halberd for a spear would have been.

    i guess that's also true...
    Still missing the obstuse hats / or an actual morion PA piece...

    Which would probably singlehandedly convince me to start a full army of them...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 18:52:37


    Post by: jivardi


    My biggest gripe is the shield COLOR. I think being it's an OML Sister that a black shield would have looked better.

    Too much "gold". And I really hate GW's take on gold. Keep the Fleur white but a gloss black (or even a flat black) shield face would look better. Hell, even a red shield face would look better.

    Looks like a fair bit of room for freehand and with a rotary tool or lots of elbow grease the Fleur could be removed to make the entire shield usable for free hand.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 19:04:59


    Post by: His Master's Voice


    Not Online!!! wrote:
    For three, have you actually had the pleassure to handle such a thing? I had with a replica, let me tell you just outright, no.


    Yeah. Pretty much every spear meant to be used with one hand was designed in a way that enabled just that. Most halberds were intentionally top heavy, making effective use with one hand nearly impossible.

    I like the model shown, but all of mine will be getting the GK glaive treatment - two handed grip, with the bolter mounted on the haft, and maybe a small power buckler for WYSIWYG sake.

    And If there's a spear variant, I have the perfect aspis style shields printed for some nice hoplite action.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 19:25:13


    Post by: Sotahullu


    Well Celestian Sacresants is good looking but I am also bothered by halberd+shield+bolt pistol combination.

    But I actually expect there being option for single handed weapons (sword/mace) but if nothing else then I would just ditch the shield.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 19:48:56


    Post by: drbored


    smh people really complaining about space-nuns wielding power-halberds with their strength-enhancing power armor so they can better worship the dead-but-not-really-dead god-emperor 40 thousand years in the future.

    Model's gorgeous. Can't wait to see the other options in the unit! I'll definitely be adding these to my army!

    I think this also solves a number of rumor engines as well.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 19:51:47


    Post by: jeff white


    Ridiculous concept. GW’s kitchen sink capitalism riding these waves of faction enthusiasm until every faction has every copyrightable difficult to convert from old kits mutant unit imaginable is silly slop. Just ick.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 19:52:45


    Post by: Galas


    Waith so we have no problem with space marines wielding giganormous power mallets (A weapon that didn't even existed outside primitive wooden clubs) with one hand and a shield in the other but we have it with Power Halberds?



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 20:00:50


    Post by: A.T.


    Have to say I like it more than the previous models - not oddly proportioned, posed, and/or a space marine model.

    Not quite sure about the sculptors logic with the shield,,, put in a spot to rest the halberd and then fill it with a boltgun. I guess to avoid a copy of the custodes.

    I'd imagine they would be useful as a bodyguard unit, albeit in a limited way with the current celestian rules of 'bodyguard dies, no saves'


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 20:05:14


    Post by: Mr Morden


    Sotahullu wrote:
    Well Celestian Sacresants is good looking but I am also bothered by halberd+shield+bolt pistol combination.

    But I actually expect there being option for single handed weapons (sword/mace) but if nothing else then I would just ditch the shield.


    Other weapons are certain and confirmed:

    Sacresants wield a variety of blessed polearms and maces with which to smite the unclean


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 20:25:07


    Post by: Coenus Scaldingus


    It's a nicely designed halberd, and halberds fit the aesthetic well I'd say. Also, I do rather like the look of halberds in general.

    The shield, on the other hand, is either too big or too small, and neither the shape nor indeed the colour work well here. The mace variant sounds interesting, though visually the stationary halberd pose with a larger, more elaborately decorated pavise could have been rather nice. Just going to ignore the extra bolter there; no idea in what kind of fighting style that would make sense.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 20:34:31


    Post by: Red Corsair


    drbored wrote:
    smh people really complaining about space-nuns wielding power-halberds with their strength-enhancing power armor so they can better worship the dead-but-not-really-dead god-emperor 40 thousand years in the future.

    Model's gorgeous. Can't wait to see the other options in the unit! I'll definitely be adding these to my army!

    I think this also solves a number of rumor engines as well.


    I know right, shocking that others might have differing opinions to your own, am I right?!?!


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 20:39:13


    Post by: Umbros



    The other weapon option for the celstants is a mace btw.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 22:13:12


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    I’m sure it’s a much needed addition to an army that was lacking in close combat units. I mean it’s only got flagellants and penitents and crusaders and death cultists. No real melee selections at all.

    At least everything in the Sororitas has nice plastic kits already though. Well, apart from crusaders and death cultists, but they’ve only been an established part of the lore for decades. No rush.


    Was my sarcasm too subtle?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 22:22:36


    Post by: Ghaz


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    I’m sure it’s a much needed addition to an army that was lacking in close combat units. I mean it’s only got flagellants and penitents and crusaders and death cultists. No real melee selections at all.

    Three of those four units may or may not be in the next codex however...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 22:23:39


    Post by: Mmmpi


    I mean, sure those exist, but outside of repentia, none of those are sisters.

    It's not a bad idea in concept because it's a sisters' melee unit that isn't a bunch of death seeking lunatics.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 22:29:42


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     Mmmpi wrote:
    I mean, sure those exist, but outside of repentia, none of those are sisters.

    It's not a bad idea in concept because it's a sisters' melee unit that isn't a bunch of death seeking lunatics.


    My point is, in sidelining (and possibly doing away with) all the non sisters units in, what used to be the old Witch Hunters army, they are stripping away a lot of the character which made it so unique. Introducing a melee unit that isn’t death seeking lunatics just makes the army one step towards boring.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 22:55:15


    Post by: Brutus_Apex


    I find this new unit to be incredible. This is exactly what I wanted from Sisters. I love it so much.

    This is everything I want from 40K.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 23:01:28


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Really it should be mace/shield or halberd. I guess that doing that with the kit would have required them be more poseable than they are right now, and a more posable model would perhaps increase modularity, and GW doesn't like that.

     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    I’d rather have had a plastic crusaders kit. It used to be all the weirdness of crusaders, death cultists and inquisitors that could accompany a Witch Hunters army, that gave it such a wonderful flavour. Adepta Sororitas are in danger of becoming as bland and the rest of 40K.
    Well this isn't the Witch Hunter book anymore. GW are of the mind right now that the Inquisition should play little-to-no role on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. This is why the Inquisition is in such a poor state right now.

    Legacy units like Crusaders and Death Cultists are more likely to be removed from the army altogether than they are get new rules and a plastic release. Frankly it's a miracle that Archo-Flagellants stayed around.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 23:05:15


    Post by: Mmmpi


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     Mmmpi wrote:
    I mean, sure those exist, but outside of repentia, none of those are sisters.

    It's not a bad idea in concept because it's a sisters' melee unit that isn't a bunch of death seeking lunatics.


    My point is, in sidelining (and possibly doing away with) all the non sisters units in, what used to be the old Witch Hunters army, they are stripping away a lot of the character which made it so unique. Introducing a melee unit that isn’t death seeking lunatics just makes the army one step towards boring.


    Are they being sidelined?

    And boring for you. Not for everyone.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 23:56:02


    Post by: Ghaz


     Mmmpi wrote:
    I mean, sure those exist, but outside of repentia, none of those are sisters.

    It's not a bad idea in concept because it's a sisters' melee unit that isn't a bunch of death seeking lunatics.

    My bad on the Arco-flagellants as I had forgotten that they had received a plastic kit. On the Crusaders and Death Cult Assassins my point stands. As resin kits, there's a good chance that they may not be in the next Adepta Sororitas codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/12 23:59:15


    Post by: Mmmpi


    And a good chance they will be in the codex.

    It's pure conjecture right now to say they'll be gone.

    I don't think anyone saying they like the new models is saying they should replace the DCA, Crs, ect.
    It's a thematic option that appeals to some people who don't necessarily want everything to be weird.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 00:11:26


    Post by: Voss


     Brutus_Apex wrote:
    I find this new unit to be incredible. This is exactly what I wanted from Sisters. I love it so much.

    This is everything I want from 40K.


    Yeah. I'm feeling a little aggrieved. I was flipping through, pondering the start of a sisters army project, but decided against because they don't have any melee units I really like. (The repentia are...fine... but what's in my head doesn't really mesh with disgraced & potentially even non-militant sinners. Zephyrim, I mostly dislike the poses and the flight stands. Especially the flight stands).

    But these... may just change my mind. I could do the army I'm picturing in my head with these as the melee lynchpin. Especially if the maces look good.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 01:33:45


    Post by: Irbis


    Not Online!!! wrote:
    Have you actually listened to that video yourself?

    I did. Did you? Including comments? Because there are literally hundreds of depictions of halberd + shield wielders, spread through whole Europe and hundreds of years time. Which would never happen, given limited surviving sources, if the practice wasn't really common (and no, single allegorical picture drawn by bored monk is not even close to anything resembling rebuttal).

    For three, have you actually had the pleassure to handle such a thing? I had with a replica, let me tell you just outright, no.

    I did. It's doable, and I certainly had no power armour on (or decades of hard labour medieval people did). Hell, I commuted twice weekly to university a state away with 20 kg bag and trying HEMA activities on medieval fairs was nothing in comparison.

    I also like how (as always) whining only starts when Sisters get unit X, mechanicus has nearly identical (except looking like garbage and with a shield that looks fifty times as cumbersome while wielded by mostly human body) FW unit and I can't find any complains about it


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 02:56:46


    Post by: cody.d.


     Brutus_Apex wrote:
    I find this new unit to be incredible. This is exactly what I wanted from Sisters. I love it so much.

    This is everything I want from 40K.


    Same here. They give a great medieval crusade in space vibe. I can imagine rows and rows of them marching through some mega cathedral or something else wonderfully over the top and 40K.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 03:14:58


    Post by: cuda1179


    Tygre wrote:
    A minor quibble is how can she use a polearm with 1 hand. You need two hands to use a polearm, but one hand is holding the shield. Can they sling the shields on their back, or something (magnetics like marines?), during melee?


    Using 2-handed weapons with a large shield was actually quite common in medieval times. It required a shoulder strap that hung around your neck, but could easily be repositioned for several types of attack stances.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 03:30:27


    Post by: Matt.Kingsley


    Edit: nvm, I should have read the rest of the thread first before commenting.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 04:04:11


    Post by: bullyboy


    The more I look at it, the more I hate the shield (but love the rest of the model). It's not just the colour, it's also the shape. What do they do, tip them over, fill with water and baptize their cherubs? It's like they're carrying mini bathtubs to war. Cleanliness is next to godliness, I guess.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 04:35:45


    Post by: Togusa


    For those mad about the Halbred/Shield, might I suggest a trip to the Historical Wargaming community. Sounds like that's more of what you want, a community and game solidly based not in fantasy, but in reality.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 04:48:13


    Post by: yukishiro1


    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 05:48:30


    Post by: cody.d.


    I mean, she is wearing power armour. Let's just assume that helps her swing the weapon one handed? Or maybe some sort of sci fi super alloy that's light enough to let them swing one handed?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 05:52:50


    Post by: Olthannon


    For all of you supposed halberd experts out there, do be sure to look up actual historic references to that very practice.

    "The more you know" and all that eh?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 05:56:15


    Post by: Racerguy180


    Dunno, I'm going for maces. Something about Sororitas beating the gak out of heretics with spiked stuff is....reassuring.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 06:23:26


    Post by: Dysartes


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Well this isn't the Witch Hunter book anymore. GW are of the mind right now that the Inquisition should play little-to-no role on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. This is why the Inquisition is in such a poor state right now.

    Legacy units like Crusaders and Death Cultists are more likely to be removed from the army altogether than they are get new rules and a plastic release. Frankly it's a miracle that Archo-Flagellants stayed around.


    I had Death Cultists down on the =][= side of things from the old WH book, but I thought Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants were on the Ecclesiarchy side of things, normally.

    As someone else mentioned, all Crusaders need for a solid role is a Bodyguard rule, and they're golden - both here, and in the IG book (if they stay in there).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 07:50:21


    Post by: Mr_Rose


    Crusaders should be Bodyguards but for Priests only. Celestians should be the bodyguard unit for canonesses.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 07:50:51


    Post by: jake


    drbored wrote:smh people really complaining about space-nuns wielding power-halberds with their strength-enhancing power armor so they can better worship the dead-but-not-really-dead god-emperor 40 thousand years in the future.


    The people here will complain about anything. No matter what. We're a decade into the endless, mindless complaining that this community thrives on. They could make a list of exactly what they want, and if they got it they'd make up stuff to complain about. I mean, there are people in this thread complaining about the color of the shields. There are people complaining that because some Space Marine unit (out of 100's of Space Marine releases) has shields that these new Sisters are just boring and generic copies. Hell, there are even people here complaining that Sisters are getting new releases at all!

    I've been a Sisters player since the very first releases. They were the first 40K army that I bought, after playing with a friend's starter set Space Marines for a year. Like a lot of players, I've gone through decades of disappointment, waiting for new releases. And now we finally get brand new units! Not Inquisitor units or weird freak show units, but actual brand new Sisters units! In fact, literally the shield carrying Celestians that people have been asking for since at least 3rd edition!!!

    And the response is complaining?

    Jesus.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 07:57:34


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     Dysartes wrote:
    I had Death Cultists down on the =][= side of things from the old WH book, but I thought Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants were on the Ecclesiarchy side of things, normally.

    As someone else mentioned, all Crusaders need for a solid role is a Bodyguard rule, and they're golden - both here, and in the IG book (if they stay in there).
    There's no Priest model either, and we were all certain that we were getting one of those.

    Either GW are going to reveal a suite of plastic Ecclesiarchy units (Priests, Crusaders, and so on) to bulk up the Sisters forces, or they're just going to cut them altogether. GW often take the path of least effort when it comes to remaking old things (just look at the bull gak release Dark Eldar received), especially things that aren't even Sisters, so I think they'll just remove them completely.

    I will be ecstatically happy if I am wrong.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 08:18:53


    Post by: jake


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
     Dysartes wrote:
    I had Death Cultists down on the =][= side of things from the old WH book, but I thought Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants were on the Ecclesiarchy side of things, normally.

    As someone else mentioned, all Crusaders need for a solid role is a Bodyguard rule, and they're golden - both here, and in the IG book (if they stay in there).
    There's no Priest model either, and we were all certain that we were getting one of those.

    Either GW are going to reveal a suite of plastic Ecclesiarchy units (Priests, Crusaders, and so on) to bulk up the Sisters forces, or they're just going to cut them altogether. GW often take the path of least effort when it comes to remaking old things (just look at the bull gak release Dark Eldar received), especially things that aren't even Sisters, so I think they'll just remove them completely.

    I will be ecstatically happy if I am wrong.



    I wouldn't be surprised if they cut them for this upcoming codex and then release a big wave of plastic Ministorium stuff down the line that can be part of Sisters, Guard or INQ lists. And then put them back in the next Codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 08:35:09


    Post by: Mr Morden


     Mr_Rose wrote:
    Crusaders should be Bodyguards but for Priests only. Celestians should be the bodyguard unit for canonesses.

    Makes sense - they are described pretty much that way in the lore.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 09:05:54


    Post by: Horla


    Hey, I was wondering if anyone had any strong opinions about halberds? Seems to have been overlooked...

    I think this model look boss, this unit and the new tank both have me quite interested in finally starting a Sisters army. This is exactly the kind of stuff that would have tipped me over the edge of the into collecting them in 2nd. And if the weird arco dudes get rolled out into something else, even better.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 09:25:39


    Post by: xttz


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
     Dysartes wrote:
    I had Death Cultists down on the =][= side of things from the old WH book, but I thought Crusaders and Arco-Flagellants were on the Ecclesiarchy side of things, normally.

    As someone else mentioned, all Crusaders need for a solid role is a Bodyguard rule, and they're golden - both here, and in the IG book (if they stay in there).
    There's no Priest model either, and we were all certain that we were getting one of those.

    Either GW are going to reveal a suite of plastic Ecclesiarchy units (Priests, Crusaders, and so on) to bulk up the Sisters forces, or they're just going to cut them altogether. GW often take the path of least effort when it comes to remaking old things (just look at the bull gak release Dark Eldar received), especially things that aren't even Sisters, so I think they'll just remove them completely.

    I will be ecstatically happy if I am wrong.



    I'll be surprised to see Crusaders removed when they relatively recently included an updated one in Combat Arena.

    Honestly a lot of the Ecclesiarchy stuff seems like it would be best suited for a Kill Team / Warhammer Quest style release. If GW wanted to revamp them I could totally see them taking that approach, but also designing the kits to work as a separate product like the Blackstone Chaos cultists so they can be used with a codex too.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 10:44:51


    Post by: Geifer


    The model is nice enough. Hard to get something wrong that's just a Sister with different weapons.

    I don't think a new helmet look was necessary, but it's one of GW's sculptors' favorite ways of distinguishing (new) units. So not really surprising, even if I'd rather use a normal one instead.

    As for H.B.M.C.'s concerns about the absence of priest models, don't we have a rumor engine of Ecclesiarchy shoulder dress/armor that's reminiscent of the blood sucking Necron dude's victim (and the priest from Blackstone Fortress, come to think of it)? Given Sisters seem to be in for a larger release, and that GW was quite happy to drop a ton of character clampacks the first time around, I don't see why we shouldn't expect a Confessor, Preacher or both with the next wave of models*. As happy as GW is to make unreasonable decisions for Dark Eldar, it doesn't seem like Sisters are in a comparable situation. They're actually getting cool stuff for their plastic revamp and continued support thereafter.



    * Or they get squatted and we get a Cardinal on a floaty pulpit with a retinue instead because of GW's fixation with centerpieces. Who knows? But there does seem to be something for the priesthood in the pipeline.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 11:30:25


    Post by: Strg Alt


     Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
    Out of nowhere.

    That’s right, folks – the Battle Sister Bulletin is back! As with our very first series on the Adepta Sororitas, which built up to the launch of their hotly anticipated plastic range, we’ll be bringing you a new instalment every couple of weeks, complete with reveals of upcoming miniatures, artwork, rules, and more.

    In this instalment, we’re introducing a new division of the Celestians – the fighting elite of the Orders Militant – known as Celestian Sacresants. Like their Celestian sisters, Sacresants traditionally act as bodyguards to the heads of their Order, but they’re also tasked with another holy duty – purging the impure and driving them from sites of sacred significance on the battlefield.

    As a Celestian, each Sacresant is a highly skilled warrior, able to overcome many times her own number in battle. Sacresants wield a variety of blessed polearms and maces with which to smite the unclean, and bear large, ornate shields to ward off the blows of their enemies. Protected in both body and spirit, Celestian Sacresants are the wall against which waves of heretics will break.

    So, now you know who they are, take a look at these fearsome new Battle Sisters!

    Imperious poses? Check.

    Cool shields? Check.

    Massive, heretic-smiting weapons? Check.

    Excellent.

    What’s more, the Adepta Sororitas finally has a heavily armoured close combat unit with some serious staying power. The Celestian Sacresants will certainly look great in your collection, as they really stand apart from the crowd.

    Speaking of which, this awesome new unit is on its way soon, so if you want to make sure you already have an Adepta Sororitas collection to add them to, grab yourself a Battle Sisters Squad or two today.*


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Oooh, there’s a Bolt weapon tucked behind the shield.


    If I want minis with halberds & shields on the table then a rank & file game is the right environment.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 11:44:39


    Post by: General Kroll


    I love the new model.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 14:09:56


    Post by: Galas


    yukishiro1 wrote:
    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    So thats where you draw the line?

    We have had lobezno-claw wielding power armored dudes in dreadnought-type armor made to enter reactors with the flexibility and mobility of a granite chunk of rock for decades, and a miniature wielding a halberd with a shield when she's wearing a power armor that also allows the wearer to fire a fething multimelta or heavy bolter and survive the recoil without any kind of support is "obviously impossible"?

    The levels of nitpicking so many people is reaching is entering the realm of hiperbolic comedy.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 14:49:51


    Post by: the_scotsman


     Lord Damocles wrote:
     Ghaz wrote:
    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    If only there was already a unit which was Swiss Guard in space.

    If only...


    You're just mad that this one looks aesthetically interesting and not like something you'd in a clogged toilet at one of those fancy restaurants where they put edible gold leaf in all the food.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 15:14:21


    Post by: Sarouan


    Well, finally : celestians using close combat weapons. Been a while since their profiles being a clear emphasis on being better than battle sisters in close combat but still stuck with the same weapon options than battle sisters.

    Not paying attention to the false outrage about "realistic use of halberds with shields".

    What I'm noticing :

    - gun inserted in the shield => they will still be able to shoot
    - they use blessed weapons, not power weapons => will have a different profiles for maces
    - they have a different helmet => yay I guess ?

    Guess we will have more models like in the tryptic in the preview.


    Am I happy to see them ? Dunno. I mean, apparently the old celestians will stay, but what will be their role if these "blessed celestians" can finally do better what they did before ? Maybe they'll follow the Drukhari way with Bloodbribes and Trueborns. Oh and they're clearly another fething Elite choice obviously...At that point, I'm wondering if sisters won't have a special detachment with 9+ elite choices unlocked. Oh well. Good thing I didn't build another unit of "normal celestians".


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 15:24:42


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     Galas wrote:
    yukishiro1 wrote:
    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    So thats where you draw the line?

    We have had lobezno-claw wielding power armored dudes in dreadnought-type armor made to enter reactors with the flexibility and mobility of a granite chunk of rock for decades, and a miniature wielding a halberd with a shield when she's wearing a power armor that also allows the wearer to fire a fething multimelta or heavy bolter and survive the recoil without any kind of support is "obviously impossible"?

    The levels of nitpicking so many people is reaching is entering the realm of hiperbolic comedy.


    Not as bad as the levels of, “I like it, so if you don’t you’re an idiot”.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 15:33:26


    Post by: Galas


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     Galas wrote:
    yukishiro1 wrote:
    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    So thats where you draw the line?

    We have had lobezno-claw wielding power armored dudes in dreadnought-type armor made to enter reactors with the flexibility and mobility of a granite chunk of rock for decades, and a miniature wielding a halberd with a shield when she's wearing a power armor that also allows the wearer to fire a fething multimelta or heavy bolter and survive the recoil without any kind of support is "obviously impossible"?

    The levels of nitpicking so many people is reaching is entering the realm of hiperbolic comedy.


    Not as bad as the levels of, “I like it, so if you don’t you’re an idiot”.


    Wow! You are right. Who made that comment? What a moron.

    Oh wait, now pointing out how biased the criticism of many people is when is constructed around "new bad old good" is calling them idiots?

    The limitations of pole arms come around normal humans using heavy two handed weapons to fight in close formations.

    None of that applies in this case for two very obvious reasons:

    -A Power Halberd could be heavier than a normal Halberd (And maybe is even ligther because scifi metals are harder and better yadayada) but even being double or triple the weight, it will be irrelevant because:
    -The soldier wielding it is not a normal human but one that wears a power armour that allows it to fire a extremely heavy bolter on the move ignoring the giant recoil it has. A much heavier weapon, more unwieldly than a power halberd will ever be.



    Spoiler:
    Sarouan wrote:
    Well, finally : celestians using close combat weapons. Been a while since their profiles being a clear emphasis on being better than battle sisters in close combat but still stuck with the same weapon options than battle sisters.

    Not paying attention to the false outrage about "realistic use of halberds with shields".

    What I'm noticing :

    - gun inserted in the shield => they will still be able to shoot
    - they use blessed weapons, not power weapons => will have a different profiles for maces
    - they have a different helmet => yay I guess ?

    Guess we will have more models like in the tryptic in the preview.


    Am I happy to see them ? Dunno. I mean, apparently the old celestians will stay, but what will be their role if these "blessed celestians" can finally do better what they did before ? Maybe they'll follow the Drukhari way with Bloodbribes and Trueborns. Oh and they're clearly another fething Elite choice obviously...At that point, I'm wondering if sisters won't have a special detachment with 9+ elite choices unlocked. Oh well. Good thing I didn't build another unit of "normal celestians".



    Normal celestians are very good with their reroll all hits near a Canoness now that being troop is not such a big upside over being any other role.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 16:15:36


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     Galas wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     Galas wrote:
    yukishiro1 wrote:
    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    So thats where you draw the line?

    We have had lobezno-claw wielding power armored dudes in dreadnought-type armor made to enter reactors with the flexibility and mobility of a granite chunk of rock for decades, and a miniature wielding a halberd with a shield when she's wearing a power armor that also allows the wearer to fire a fething multimelta or heavy bolter and survive the recoil without any kind of support is "obviously impossible"?

    The levels of nitpicking so many people is reaching is entering the realm of hiperbolic comedy.


    Not as bad as the levels of, “I like it, so if you don’t you’re an idiot”.


    Wow! You are right. Who made that comment? What a moron.

    Oh wait, now pointing out how biased the criticism of many people is when is constructed around "new bad old good" is calling them idiots?

    The limitations of pole arms come around normal humans using heavy two handed weapons to fight in close formations.

    None of that applies in this case for two very obvious reasons:

    -A Power Halberd could be heavier than a normal Halberd (And maybe is even ligther because scifi metals are harder and better yadayada) but even being double or triple the weight, it will be irrelevant because:
    -The soldier wielding it is not a normal human but one that wears a power armour that allows it to fire a extremely heavy bolter on the move ignoring the giant recoil it has. A much heavier weapon, more unwieldly than a power halberd will ever be.



    Spoiler:
    Sarouan wrote:
    Well, finally : celestians using close combat weapons. Been a while since their profiles being a clear emphasis on being better than battle sisters in close combat but still stuck with the same weapon options than battle sisters.

    Not paying attention to the false outrage about "realistic use of halberds with shields".

    What I'm noticing :

    - gun inserted in the shield => they will still be able to shoot
    - they use blessed weapons, not power weapons => will have a different profiles for maces
    - they have a different helmet => yay I guess ?

    Guess we will have more models like in the tryptic in the preview.


    Am I happy to see them ? Dunno. I mean, apparently the old celestians will stay, but what will be their role if these "blessed celestians" can finally do better what they did before ? Maybe they'll follow the Drukhari way with Bloodbribes and Trueborns. Oh and they're clearly another fething Elite choice obviously...At that point, I'm wondering if sisters won't have a special detachment with 9+ elite choices unlocked. Oh well. Good thing I didn't build another unit of "normal celestians".



    Normal celestians are very good with their reroll all hits near a Canoness now that being troop is not such a big upside over being any other role.


    Sorry. I paraphrased. Calling an opinion you disagree with, hiperbolic (sic) nitpicking implies an attitude to other posters that you may not have intended.

    Btw, the difficulties of using a halberd has nothing to do with weight. Medieval weapons are far lighter than most people assume. It’s far more to do with how hard it is to control something that long with just one hand.

    Personally I have no opinions on the model other than it’s not something I wanted. I’m annoyed that a second wave Sisters release is being used to for the stuff they’ve previewed so far, rather than being used to update all the stuff that’s already in the army, but stuck with old resin and metal models.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 16:50:52


    Post by: yukishiro1


    If you post here for any length of time you get used to getting personally attacked if you offer an opinion or observation that isn't as enthusiastic as deemed necessary by a certain sub-segment of the population.

    One of the great ironies of Dakka is that it's the "positive" posters who tend more to personal attacks. You have to just learn to live with it, it's some kind of defense mechanism they just can't seem to help; I guess they feel like your negative opinion on something is some sort of personal attack on them because they identify so strongly with the hobby, or something.

    It will be interesting to see how the rest of the squad is modeled, as the pose they showed is actually realistic in the sense that someone can hold a halberd that way one-handed - but it's the only real pose that's realistic. So I wonder whether they will all be holding them that way, or whether they'll try to actually have poses using the weapon too, not just resting it on the ground.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 16:59:53


    Post by: Lord Damocles


     the_scotsman wrote:
     Lord Damocles wrote:
     Ghaz wrote:
    GW is obviously going for a Swiss Guards vibe with these so a spear would not fit with the theme.

    If only there was already a unit which was Swiss Guard in space.

    If only...


    You're just mad that this one looks aesthetically interesting and not like something you'd in a clogged toilet at one of those fancy restaurants where they put edible gold leaf in all the food.

    But I like the look of the new model.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 19:14:54


    Post by: Smaug


    Is there any chance that figures from Necromunda specifically Cawdor or Redemptionists will get rules so they can be used as frateris militia or zealots, or is GW taking a hard no on figures being used in more than one game system? If the heretics and the aliens can have cultists then why can’t the Imperium?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 19:21:16


    Post by: Wha-Mu-077


    Smaug wrote:
    Is there any chance that figures from Necromunda specifically Cawdor or Redemptionists will get rules so they can be used as frateris militia or zealots, or is GW taking a hard no on figures being used in more than one game system? If the heretics and the aliens can have cultists then why can’t the Imperium?


    Absolutely no chance.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 19:21:17


    Post by: yukishiro1


    There's cross-over between AOS-based game systems, though almost all the non-AOS models you can use in AOS suck. There is also cross-over with Blackstone Fortress, and, just like in AOS, they almost all suck (aside from Daedalosus, who is in basically every list because he's so good).

    It hasn't happened with Necromunda, but that doesn't mean it couldn't.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 19:33:18


    Post by: Sarouan


    Well, we could have Frateris Militia units in the new codex, but I think it would lead to other new miniatures than the Redemptionists. Still, not sure we'll see Frateris Militia as such this time.

    And of course, it wouldn't stop people using the Necromunda boxes to play as some units from the new codex as well. Ministorum Priests is the obvious answer here.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 23:18:36


    Post by: Balance


    I'm way out of 40k (and a lot of gaming...) is the copyright 2019 Codex: Adepta Sororitas about to be replaced by a newer book?

    (Not that I have the core rules or any chance of playing soon.)


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 23:41:50


    Post by: yukishiro1


    Seems very likely, though whether it's next month or September is anybody's guess.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/13 23:48:04


    Post by: Voss


    Probably, and most likely May or June based on when we started seeing Sisters previews beyond the Palatine.

    Its mostly a question of Sisters->Orks or Orks->Sisters.
    But both are looking like pretty chunky releases.

    With tyranids trailing along in the rumor engine.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 01:07:11


    Post by: Argive


    Voss wrote:
    Probably, and most likely May or June based on when we started seeing Sisters previews beyond the Palatine.

    Its mostly a question of Sisters->Orks or Orks->Sisters.
    But both are looking like pretty chunky releases.

    With tyranids trailing along in the rumor engine.


    WHat has been previewed for greenskins apart from the snaggas?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 01:52:48


    Post by: Voss


     Argive wrote:
    Voss wrote:
    Probably, and most likely May or June based on when we started seeing Sisters previews beyond the Palatine.

    Its mostly a question of Sisters->Orks or Orks->Sisters.
    But both are looking like pretty chunky releases.

    With tyranids trailing along in the rumor engine.


    WHat has been previewed for greenskins apart from the snaggas?

    So far they've only directly previewed one Beastsnagga unit.
    But also... there is the 'lieutenant' from that video from way back around the SM/Necron books, quite a few rumor engine pics, and the beast snaggas themselves look to be a fairly large release, as they've explicitly stated and compared them to speed freeks (which consists of bikers, nob bikers, and the five buggy variants). With hints of various other releases in their animated video, including two characters and maybe some other things.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 02:27:05


    Post by: Daedalus81


     bullyboy wrote:
    The more I look at it, the more I hate the shield (but love the rest of the model). It's not just the colour, it's also the shape. What do they do, tip them over, fill with water and baptize their cherubs? It's like they're carrying mini bathtubs to war. Cleanliness is next to godliness, I guess.


    More like coffins for me to bury them in.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 04:16:44


    Post by: jeff white


    yukishiro1 wrote:
    If you post here for any length of time you get used to getting personally attacked if you offer an opinion or observation that isn't as enthusiastic as deemed necessary by a certain sub-segment of the population.

    One of the great ironies of Dakka is that it's the "positive" posters who tend more to personal attacks. You have to just learn to live with it, it's some kind of defense mechanism they just can't seem to help; I guess they feel like your negative opinion on something is some sort of personal attack on them because they identify so strongly with the hobby, or something.



    This^^ so true.

    The models are not as bad as the so called dogmata. I will not be buying them. The last SoB tank is also a fat miss for me.

    My problem is with GW making all sorts of everything for every faction that is somehow new and improved, has not yet been made by third parties, and cannot be made easily or converted, not for the flavour of the faction consistent with what we should know about the declining empire suffering waves of encroaching evil, e.g. Sisters in shiny Walker suits with weird legs came from nowhere and are silly looking at best and contrary to this universal decline, imho, but most obviously to ride the wave of fanboy enthusiasm for IP protected spikes in sales.

    So yeah, now blessed halberds are a thing. Umm, great if you are into that sort of thing. MeanWhile, basic troops for other factions rot. Maybe we don’t see new eldar aspects because hey, one of the most ancient of races in the universe will probably start producing new aspects with Crystal matrix nunchucks while old aspects are backgrounded perhaps because Crystal matrix nunchucks attack three times with plus three strength, or maybe because third parties already make most of the OG aspects better.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 05:06:26


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Personally I have no opinions on the model other than it’s not something I wanted. I’m annoyed that a second wave Sisters release is being used to for the stuff they’ve previewed so far, rather than being used to update all the stuff that’s already in the army, but stuck with old resin and metal models.
    Whilst I generally agree with your sentiment, there's actually nothing in the Sisters line that isn't plastic. Nothing needs updating.

    "But Crusa-"

    ... aren't Sisters. Neither are Priests. Neither are Deathcult Assassins.

    Every HQ and special character? Plastic.
    Troops? Plastic.
    Elites? All plastic.
    Fast attack? Plastic, plastic, plastic!
    Heavy Support? All of them plastic.
    They even have a terrain piece, in plastic.

    The Sisters, as far as a plastic release goes, are a complete line with zero gaps.

    GW also stated during the preview where the Nundam suits were shown off that this release is about adding new things to the Sisters army because up until now all they've done is redo the existing units (and make a couple of off-shoots like Mortifiers and Zephyrm). Now we get the Nundam suits, the Leman Rhino, the Palatine, Halberd Girls, and Lady Maceclub.

    Do they do plastic Crusaders? Priests? Maybe, but we're just as likely to get plastic Ecclesiarchical stuff as they are to be shuffled off to Legends and forgotten about. I want them to get a proper release, but I just don't see it happening.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 05:12:24


    Post by: Eldenfirefly


    Hmm, I know I will regret wading into this discussion. But my view is that a halbard has a long shaft. By that very fact, a halbard is designed to be wielded two handed. Its not so much whether the halbard is light or whether you have the strength to heft it in one hand. Using two hands on a polearm like a halbard increases the strength you can put behind a blow.

    Now, if your hero is so strong he or she can swing a halbard with just one hand and put lots of force behind it. Then just go for an axe. Then you won't have this huge shaft getting in your way and your swings would be far more nimble.

    Now, if they are using the halbard in both hands, and the shield is just attached to their forearm. The issue I have is that the shield itself is too huge. Even if I accept that the hero has the strength to swing around a halbard while having that huge shield strapped to his forearm. That huge shield would still get in the way. Imagine you are swing the halbard in a huge arc to behead someone. And you have this huge shield attached to your forearm. Its going to inhibit your complete swing.

    If its a smaller shield, something like a buckler, then by all means, thats fine. But this shield isn't a buckler. Its a huge shield that screams the need to be held by one hand.

    And actually, if the halbard was a spear, like how the spartans use. Then the shield can be so big and the shaft of the spear can be long. The key difference being that you use a spear for thrusting, and you can thrust fine with one hand. You can even throw a spear with one hand.

    Now, maybe the hero can use the halbard as an axe with a super long shaft. So, this gives him a longer reach. So imagine the hero holding the end of the shaft, and swinging this long halbard like a super long axe. With enough strength of superhuman, its doable I suppose. It kinda looks wierd though. Again like I said, you might as well use a normal axe at that point. Much more nimble and flexible.

    One of the best examples of this in 40k itself are lychguard. You either equip them with two handed war scythes, or you go shield and sword with them. You don't get to equip lychguard with war scythe and shield. And these are robots. So if you wanted them to swing a warscythe with one hand, they would totally do it. lol


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 05:53:50


    Post by: tneva82


     Balance wrote:
    I'm way out of 40k (and a lot of gaming...) is the copyright 2019 Codex: Adepta Sororitas about to be replaced by a newer book?

    (Not that I have the core rules or any chance of playing soon.)


    Officially not told. But we do know more models are coming and since first was shown in february and gw doens't generally show more than 3 months ahead complete models odds are models are coming on may(also palatine mention in warhammer community all but quaranteed SOME form of book release for sisters is immident...). Whether that's with codex or not is another thing as it could be part of Charadron supplement like ad mech got new models last year along psychic awakening. We also haven't heard of codex release for may and just know there's almost certainly SOME codex there...

    However if you don't have codex already now would be very, very, VERY risky moment to buy it. It's just matter of weeks before we know one way or another.

    If I had to bet money I would be betting for new codex in may.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 05:59:54


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


     Argive wrote:


    WHat has been previewed for greenskins apart from the snaggas?


    They had an HQ teased (not fully shown thus far?) as part of the July 2020 teaser for stuff (codexes?) originally scheduled for 2020.





    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 06:01:16


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Personally I have no opinions on the model other than it’s not something I wanted. I’m annoyed that a second wave Sisters release is being used to for the stuff they’ve previewed so far, rather than being used to update all the stuff that’s already in the army, but stuck with old resin and metal models.
    Whilst I generally agree with your sentiment, there's actually nothing in the Sisters line that isn't plastic. Nothing needs updating.

    "But Crusa-"

    ... aren't Sisters. Neither are Priests. Neither are Deathcult Assassins.

    Every HQ and special character? Plastic.
    Troops? Plastic.
    Elites? All plastic.
    Fast attack? Plastic, plastic, plastic!
    Heavy Support? All of them plastic.


    They even have a terrain piece, in plastic.

    The Sisters, as far as a plastic release goes, are a complete line with zero gaps.

    GW also stated during the preview where the Nundam suits were shown off that this release is about adding new things to the Sisters army because up until now all they've done is redo the existing units (and make a couple of off-shoots like Mortifiers and Zephyrm). Now we get the Nundam suits, the Leman Rhino, the Palatine, Halberd Girls, and Lady Maceclub.

    Do they do plastic Crusaders? Priests? Maybe, but we're just as likely to get plastic Ecclesiarchical stuff as they are to be shuffled off to Legends and forgotten about. I want them to get a proper release, but I just don't see it happening.



    Sorry, but I just don’t agree with your line of argument here. You’re essentially claiming that a big chunk of the units in this army are not actually part of this army because they’re not actually Sororitas. Never mind that arco flagellants aren’t Sisters and penitent engines aren’t sister, but they do have plastic kits. Let’s completely ignore that crusaders, death cult assassins and priests have always been part of this army.

    You could argue that what I’m wanting is the old Witch Hunters army, not strictly sisters. Well yes. Yes it is, because to me that’s what the army is. Culling the army of anything that isn’t an actual Sister of Battle strips away a lot of the character. Luckily that isn’t what GW have done because penitent engines and arco flagellants! However they’ve left the main house unfinished but started working on an extension.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 06:35:11


    Post by: Us3Less


    tneva82 wrote:
    ... SOME form of book release for sisters is immident...). Whether that's with codex or not is another thing as it could be part of Charadron supplement like ad mech got new models last year along psychic awakening.


    I had been thinking about this as well, but considering the leaked datasheets for the Triumph and the Exorcist, it seems unlikely to be just a supplement with the new models. Of course, this assumes the leaks are true and I have no clue if they are, but they seem legit. Codex seems much more likely than a War Zone book to me.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 06:39:06


    Post by: Lord Damocles


    I don't even mind Sisters getting new units before existing units which are still not updated to plastic kits.

    My problem is that Sisters don't need a third Celestian unit; a sixth melee unit in the already crowded elite slot; and a second shield equipped bodyguard unit (of which these are the fourth!)



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 06:41:06


    Post by: MajorWesJanson


    They aren't exactly widely available, but GW has already released a plastic priest, death cult assassin, and crusader model, either through kill team or Blackstone fortress. Awkward to get, very. But GW has already done it.

    It isn't codex witch hunters anymore- inquisitors are gone with a lot of their retinue. Ecclesiarchy is now support rather than mainline. It's now codex sororitas. Same as how grey knights lost the inquisition elements when they went away from codex daemonhunters.

    That said, a priest plus retinue kit would be a good cross kit for sisters and guard


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 06:54:10


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     MajorWesJanson wrote:
    They aren't exactly widely available, but GW has already released a plastic priest, death cult assassin, and crusader model, either through kill team or Blackstone fortress. Awkward to get, very. But GW has already done it.

    It isn't codex witch hunters anymore- inquisitors are gone with a lot of their retinue. Ecclesiarchy is now support rather than mainline. It's now codex sororitas. Same as how grey knights lost the inquisition elements when they went away from codex daemonhunters.

    That said, a priest plus retinue kit would be a good cross kit for sisters and guard


    Which is precisely why I won’t be collecting a Grey Knight army. To me, a wannabe Inquisition player, it’s very sad to see my favourite faction dwindling away like this. Sure, there have been a couple of named Inquisitors in plastic, but to say, well they did a plastic death cult assassin in an OOP expansion once so there’s your plastic death cultists you wanted ...

    ... I’m lost for words.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 07:19:05


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Sorry, but I just don’t agree with your line of argument here. You’re essentially claiming that a big chunk of the units in this army are not actually part of this army because they’re not actually Sororitas. Never mind that arco flagellants aren’t Sisters and penitent engines aren’t sister, but they do have plastic kits. Let’s completely ignore that crusaders, death cult assassins and priests have always been part of this army.

    You could argue that what I’m wanting is the old Witch Hunters army, not strictly sisters. Well yes. Yes it is, because to me that’s what the army is. Culling the army of anything that isn’t an actual Sister of Battle strips away a lot of the character. Luckily that isn’t what GW have done because penitent engines and arco flagellants! However they’ve left the main house unfinished but started working on an extension.
    And, again, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but that's not what's happening with the Sisters.

    It's a hard argument to make that GW shouldn't be adding to the Sisters when there's so much of their range that hasn't been updated. The truth is their entire range was updated, and this is really the first time they're adding a bunch of new things to the Sisters.

    And yes, I am saying it is because certain things aren't specifically Sororitas. This is the Adepta Sororitas Codex, and not the Witch Hunter Codex, no matter how much you, me or anyone else may want a return to that duality. Right now that's just not on the cards. We're going to get a new Sisters book, and I fear that means jettisoning anything that isn't strictly a sister.

    And before you say it, remember that the fluff is arbitrary. GW could turn around tomorrow and say that Achos and Penitent Engines have always been Sororitas units - Convent Serfs that did bad things turned into mindless killing machines, and so on.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 07:19:30


    Post by: Dysartes


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Let’s completely ignore that crusaders, death cult assassins and priests have always been part of this army.


    While Priests have always been part of the SoB army, DCA and Crusaders haven't been.

    DCA were added in 3rd edition, after being introduced in the =][= game. Crusaders also make their first appearance in the 3rd edition -hunters books.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 07:21:10


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     MajorWesJanson wrote:
    They aren't exactly widely available, but GW has already released a plastic priest, death cult assassin, and crusader model, either through kill team or Blackstone fortress. Awkward to get, very. But GW has already done it.
    Which are, to the best of my knowledge, all contained on sprues that contain other models. That makes them less likely to be released, as it either means doing combined kits (how do you explain those extra units in a Sisters force?) or cutting new sprues (which has an up-front and not insignificant expense tied to it).

     MajorWesJanson wrote:
    That said, a priest plus retinue kit would be a good cross kit for sisters and guard
    That would be grand. I'd be first in line for that. I just don't see it happening.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 07:25:09


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


    Blackstone Fortress is a game from the Specialist Games/Forge World department. It's not "mainstream GW" (depending on how prevalent the GW vs. ex-FW-&-now-specialist-games silos in GW still are).

    It probably also was on a cheaper aluminium mould with limited durability to begin with and thus gone (though I suppose the digital file is still around and could be used for tooling a new sprue).



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 07:26:07


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Sorry, but I just don’t agree with your line of argument here. You’re essentially claiming that a big chunk of the units in this army are not actually part of this army because they’re not actually Sororitas. Never mind that arco flagellants aren’t Sisters and penitent engines aren’t sister, but they do have plastic kits. Let’s completely ignore that crusaders, death cult assassins and priests have always been part of this army.

    You could argue that what I’m wanting is the old Witch Hunters army, not strictly sisters. Well yes. Yes it is, because to me that’s what the army is. Culling the army of anything that isn’t an actual Sister of Battle strips away a lot of the character. Luckily that isn’t what GW have done because penitent engines and arco flagellants! However they’ve left the main house unfinished but started working on an extension.
    And, again, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but that's not what's happening with the Sisters.

    It's a hard argument to make that GW shouldn't be adding to the Sisters when there's so much of their range that hasn't been updated. The truth is their entire range was updated, and this is really the first time they're adding a bunch of new things to the Sisters.

    And yes, I am saying it is because certain things aren't specifically Sororitas. This is the Adepta Sororitas Codex, and not the Witch Hunter Codex, no matter how much you, me or anyone else may want a return to that duality. Right now that's just not on the cards. We're going to get a new Sisters book, and I fear that means jettisoning anything that isn't strictly a sister.

    And before you say it, remember that the fluff is arbitrary. GW could turn around tomorrow and say that Achos and Penitent Engines have always been Sororitas units - Convent Serfs that did bad things turned into mindless killing machines, and so on.



    We’ll have to agree to differ. You seem to be arguing that if it’s not a nun in power armour, then it’s not a sisters unit. I’m arguing that if it’s in the Sisters codex then it is. You’re probably right. Ultimately this is the very reason why I’m rapidly losing interest in 40K. My favourite faction barely exists anymore


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 08:54:46


    Post by: Matt.Kingsley


     Lord Damocles wrote:
    I don't even mind Sisters getting new units before existing units which are still not updated to plastic kits.

    My problem is that Sisters don't need a third Celestian unit; a sixth melee unit in the already crowded elite slot; and a second shield equipped bodyguard unit (of which these are the fourth!)

    A third Celestian unit? What's the second? Command Squads don't exist anymore. I guess you could be talking about the weird Holy Power Lifter suits they're getting?
    Bodyguard unit? Only Celestians (and Geminae I guess, but only for Celestine) have a form of Bodyguard rule. It's also weird to class Death Cult Assassins or Arco-flagellants as 'bodyguards' for Priests in any sense, even if Crusaders should sort of fill that role. For Priests.

    This is the first on-foot, power-armoured Sororitas melee unit. It's a role that makes sense to be filled, especially given Celestians have always been better in melee than regular Sisters to denote their eliteness, despite not having melee weapon options. These certainly feel like a much more natural inclusion to the army than the shiny new Holy Power Lifters, or even the Dogmata and new Tank.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 09:04:45


    Post by: tneva82


    Us3Less wrote:
    tneva82 wrote:
    ... SOME form of book release for sisters is immident...). Whether that's with codex or not is another thing as it could be part of Charadron supplement like ad mech got new models last year along psychic awakening.


    I had been thinking about this as well, but considering the leaked datasheets for the Triumph and the Exorcist, it seems unlikely to be just a supplement with the new models. Of course, this assumes the leaks are true and I have no clue if they are, but they seem legit. Codex seems much more likely than a War Zone book to me.


    True. Which is why i said i would be betting for codex may


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 09:36:15


    Post by: Crimson


     Matt.Kingsley wrote:
     Lord Damocles wrote:
    I don't even mind Sisters getting new units before existing units which are still not updated to plastic kits.

    My problem is that Sisters don't need a third Celestian unit; a sixth melee unit in the already crowded elite slot; and a second shield equipped bodyguard unit (of which these are the fourth!)

    A third Celestian unit? What's the second? Command Squads don't exist anymore. I guess you could be talking about the weird Holy Power Lifter suits they're getting?
    Bodyguard unit? Only Celestians (and Geminae I guess, but only for Celestine) have a form of Bodyguard rule. It's also weird to class Death Cult Assassins or Arco-flagellants as 'bodyguards' for Priests in any sense, even if Crusaders should sort of fill that role. For Priests.

    This is the first on-foot, power-armoured Sororitas melee unit. It's a role that makes sense to be filled, especially given Celestians have always been better in melee than regular Sisters to denote their eliteness, despite not having melee weapon options. These certainly feel like a much more natural inclusion to the army than the shiny new Holy Power Lifters, or even the Dogmata and new Tank.


    Yep, exactly. I have long wished that we would have a proper Celestian melee unit and now we got it. It is boring for Celestians to just be normal sisters with same gear, this actually sets them apart and gives them unique look and role. As for the model, I think it looks pretty excellent; I'm not completely sold on the shield, but that's easy to swap.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 10:22:45


    Post by: Ordana


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     H.B.M.C. wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Sorry, but I just don’t agree with your line of argument here. You’re essentially claiming that a big chunk of the units in this army are not actually part of this army because they’re not actually Sororitas. Never mind that arco flagellants aren’t Sisters and penitent engines aren’t sister, but they do have plastic kits. Let’s completely ignore that crusaders, death cult assassins and priests have always been part of this army.

    You could argue that what I’m wanting is the old Witch Hunters army, not strictly sisters. Well yes. Yes it is, because to me that’s what the army is. Culling the army of anything that isn’t an actual Sister of Battle strips away a lot of the character. Luckily that isn’t what GW have done because penitent engines and arco flagellants! However they’ve left the main house unfinished but started working on an extension.
    And, again, I don't disagree with your sentiment, but that's not what's happening with the Sisters.

    It's a hard argument to make that GW shouldn't be adding to the Sisters when there's so much of their range that hasn't been updated. The truth is their entire range was updated, and this is really the first time they're adding a bunch of new things to the Sisters.

    And yes, I am saying it is because certain things aren't specifically Sororitas. This is the Adepta Sororitas Codex, and not the Witch Hunter Codex, no matter how much you, me or anyone else may want a return to that duality. Right now that's just not on the cards. We're going to get a new Sisters book, and I fear that means jettisoning anything that isn't strictly a sister.

    And before you say it, remember that the fluff is arbitrary. GW could turn around tomorrow and say that Achos and Penitent Engines have always been Sororitas units - Convent Serfs that did bad things turned into mindless killing machines, and so on.



    We’ll have to agree to differ. You seem to be arguing that if it’s not a nun in power armour, then it’s not a sisters unit. I’m arguing that if it’s in the Sisters codex then it is. You’re probably right. Ultimately this is the very reason why I’m rapidly losing interest in 40K. My favourite faction barely exists anymore
    GW grabbed the units from the WH codex to make the Sister Codex to fill it out. Now that the existing Sisters kits are all done they look to be phasing out the WH part of the Sister codex.

    As it looks right now it certainly seems like GW intends to make it a book full of nuns in power armour.
    With this new Shield unit I expect Crusaders will be gone, Priest probably gone with the new foot character.
    Even Penitent engines could be gone with the Sister walker suit thing, but that might be a long shot.

    And yes, if you were a fan of the WH part then that sucks.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 10:27:41


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     Ordana wrote:
    Even Penitent engines could be gone with the Sister walker suit thing, but that might be a long shot.
    Penitent Engines are a new plastic kit. They're not going anywhere.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 11:02:29


    Post by: A.T.


     Ordana wrote:
    GW grabbed the units from the WH codex to make the Sister Codex to fill it out. Now that the existing Sisters kits are all done they look to be phasing out the WH part of the Sister codex.

    As it looks right now it certainly seems like GW intends to make it a book full of nuns in power armour.
    Non-sisters have been a part of the sisters army since they were first published - Witch Hunters actually chopped down on the ecclesiarchal side to make room for the inquisition.

    It would be a shame to further lose part of what separates them from just being a 'weak marines' faction, but GW certainly aren't above culling a unit because the model is old and sells poorly. Penitents and arcos are safe at least, unless GW decides that sisters players need to buy two books going forwards...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 11:14:06


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    A.T. wrote:
    Non-sisters have been a part of the sisters army since they were first published - Witch Hunters actually chopped down on the ecclesiarchal side to make room for the inquisition.
    And Genestealer Hybrids and Squigs were once part of the Tyranid list. Also when Sisters got their first 'Dex they had 6 actual Sisters units (Canoness, Sister Superior, Sister Squad, Serephim, Rhinos and Immolators). Things have moved on since then. The requirements of non-Sisters units to bulk out the army simply isn't there anymore.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 11:43:33


    Post by: A.T.


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    And Genestealer Hybrids and Squigs were once part of the Tyranid list.
    In Rogue Trader perhaps, alongside Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau.

    Chopping out the non-sisters element would be more akin to what happened to grey knights. Though at least the sisters start from a better position in terms of their unit range.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 11:51:36


    Post by: Sarouan


    Sorry, but at what point did GW state that all non sister units will be removed from their V9 codex ?

    That witch hunter inquisitors are no longer part of the codex, that I aknowledge, and it's not a new thing either.

    I agree with H.B.M.C. on that matter : the days before are long gone and GW will decide what will be in the V9 codex in the end or not. But so far, they never showed anything saying priests won't be in anymore. They're just showing the new units one after the other, that's all. And they happen to be all sisters until now - shocking in a new sister codex, really !


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 11:58:07


    Post by: Lord Damocles


     Matt.Kingsley wrote:
     Lord Damocles wrote:
    I don't even mind Sisters getting new units before existing units which are still not updated to plastic kits.

    My problem is that Sisters don't need a third Celestian unit; a sixth melee unit in the already crowded elite slot; and a second shield equipped bodyguard unit (of which these are the fourth!)

    A third Celestian unit? What's the second? Command Squads don't exist anymore.

    Zephyrim.

    Background-wise and thematically, Celestians, new Celestians, Geminae, and Crusaders (Pontifex Guard) are all bodyguard units; even if they don't all have rules to reflect that fact.


    This is the first on-foot, power-armoured Sororitas melee unit. It's a role that makes sense to be filled, especially given Celestians have always been better in melee than regular Sisters to denote their eliteness, despite not having melee weapon options.

    It's almost like the new Celestians should just be new weapon options for the existing Celestian unit...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:06:20


    Post by: Sarouan




    They're not Celestians. More like prophets, chosen amongst the sisters "in permanent connection with the God-Emperor". They're not bodyguards as well.

    Hell, even their description isn't on the same page than Celestians (they're put with Seraphims, who aren't Celestians either).


    Crusaders aren't part of the Adepta Sororitas, so pointless to put them on the same level than Celestians.

    And Geminae are specifically bodyguards to Saint Celestine...and they're not Celestians either.

    You're mistaking the general role and the background, here. Being a Celestian is like being a Veteran Space Marine - you're earning that rank through deeds and experience. That's explained in the background of the current codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:11:03


    Post by: Galas


    I have yet to see a actual sisters of battle player that dont like the inclusion of new stuff to their codex. Some can, aesthetically, like them more or less, or even dislike them, but the fact that what they are adding to the codex are NEW SITERS OF BATTLE UNITS in 20 years is excelent.

    And I would love for plastic crusaders, I have ran in the past lists with 30 of these fellow. Heck, give me crusaders in jetbikes with laser-lances like that silly 2D Clone Wars episode and I'll make a full bretonnian space force of them. Just like I would LOVE for GW to release an expasion of the Vespid with new plastic vespid, a vespid HQ and maybe some vespid units, but wishing is free.

    But Sisters of Battle are Sisters of Battle, now and in the future. And yes, most sister of battle players are glad to finally have a actual sister of battle meele unit on foot.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:14:20


    Post by: Sarouan


     Galas wrote:

    But Sisters of Battle are Sisters of Battle, now and in the future. And yes, most sister of battle players are glad to finally have a actual sister of battle meele unit on foot.


    You forgot to mention "durable" in that description. Otherwise, if it's just about having a sister of battle melee unit on foot...we already have them and they're the Repentia sisters.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:27:11


    Post by: Matt.Kingsley


     Lord Damocles wrote:
     Matt.Kingsley wrote:
     Lord Damocles wrote:
    I don't even mind Sisters getting new units before existing units which are still not updated to plastic kits.

    My problem is that Sisters don't need a third Celestian unit; a sixth melee unit in the already crowded elite slot; and a second shield equipped bodyguard unit (of which these are the fourth!)

    A third Celestian unit? What's the second? Command Squads don't exist anymore.

    Zephyrim.

    Background-wise and thematically, Celestians, new Celestians, Geminae, and Crusaders (Pontifex Guard) are all bodyguard units; even if they don't all have rules to reflect that fact.

    If you class Zephyrim as Celestians, then I guess Seraphim are Celestians, too.
    Geminae are only the bodyguard of Celestine specifically, both in rules and fluff. And there's only two of them in the entire universe.
    As stated, Crusaders don't even have a Bodyguard rule, and even if they did it's doubtful they'd protect anything except Priests (both thematically and otherwise).
    This is the first on-foot, power-armoured Sororitas melee unit. It's a role that makes sense to be filled, especially given Celestians have always been better in melee than regular Sisters to denote their eliteness, despite not having melee weapon options.

    It's almost like the new Celestians should just be new weapon options for the existing Celestian unit...

    Ok? But why does it really matter that these are a seperate unit over being weapon options? If anything, them being a serperate unit is better in some ways because it means you can take 3 units of each.
    GW would need to make new models either way. You'd also still need to use an elite slot (assuming these are indeed an Elite unit, which admittedly is very very likely). I'm really not seeing the issue aside from mixing and matching special/heavy weapons or bolters?

    Did you also complain when GW made Zephyrim a seperate unit to Seraphim? If so then fine, but othewise I'm not seeing why these are an afront to god (or the God Emperor as it were )


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:28:08


    Post by: tneva82


     Ordana wrote:

    Even Penitent engines could be gone with the Sister walker suit thing, but that might be a long shot.



    You realize if they remove that then it's either mortificators are out or they are going to redo mortificator kit barely year since release?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:29:03


    Post by: Matt.Kingsley


    Sarouan wrote:
     Galas wrote:

    But Sisters of Battle are Sisters of Battle, now and in the future. And yes, most sister of battle players are glad to finally have a actual sister of battle meele unit on foot.


    You forgot to mention "durable" in that description. Otherwise, if it's just about having a sister of battle melee unit on foot...we already have them and they're the Repentia sisters.

    Repentia are disgraced Sisters that have sinned against the God Emperor... that's a completely different beast to a unit of power-armoured Sisters that aren't disgraced.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 12:36:34


    Post by: Sarouan


     Matt.Kingsley wrote:

    Repentia are disgraced Sisters that have sinned against the God Emperor... that's a completely different beast to a unit of power-armoured Sisters that aren't disgraced.


    Disgraced sisters are still sisters, which is why they do have the "Order" keyword. And that's all that matters here rulewise.

    And yes, these new celestians are clearly about combining a better "resistance" than the repentia glass cannons with more adapted close combat weapons for sure.


    The article specifies the "standard" celestians can still be made with the "basic" battle sister box and they're still talking about a "more elite army if you chose that way", so I guess they'll still be Elite indeed.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 13:15:46


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 13:21:38


    Post by: Andykp


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).


    The army was sister of battle then became witch hunters in third. So if what it used to be called is upsetting you then forget about it. They were sisters first so it’s ok.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 13:25:28


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    Andykp wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).


    The army was sister of battle then became witch hunters in third. So if what it used to be called is upsetting you then forget about it. They were sisters first so it’s ok.


    I honestly can’t tell if it’s my fault or your fault that you so utterly missed the point I was trying to make.

    Whatever.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 13:26:48


    Post by: Mr_Rose


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Let me tell you about when GW renamed my Sisters of Battle “witch hunters” for some reason and threw in a bunch of sideshow units rather than actually developing the existing army list which had been one of the best in 2nd edition. It’s like if they renamed imperial guard “warriors of the imperium” and added Custodes and assassins and sisters of silence out of nowhere, shoehorning them into the background and claiming it was always thus.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 13:31:03


    Post by: Mothman


    I dont know if I would say its impossible now to make a witch hunters style army, my force is sisters + inquisitor + storm troopers. Though would be nice the if the 1 inquisitor per detachment could bring a small acolyte squad with him.

    Personally I wouldn't mind if Arco flagellants, crusaders and death cults were moved to an inquisition book and expand the inquisition line, give the inquisition a slightly better roster vs just acolytes.

    Though I also would like certain fluffy factions to make taking them as allies cheaper, like inquisition detachment costing 1cp less. An allies matrix honestly would be nice, like bringing in just a single knight, an inquisition detachment or daemon allies for chaos having a refund on some of the CP costs to represent close ties.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 13:53:32


    Post by: Balance


    tneva82 wrote:
    However if you don't have codex already now would be very, very, VERY risky moment to buy it. It's just matter of weeks before we know one way or another.


    I bought it mainly for enjoyment. I have been considering some tentative steps back into tabletop play (when more stuff opens up) and honestly my first thought was one of the ‘side games’ like Necromunda or Kill Team... but the latter seem so to be a possibly put of print base set and I want clear if an expansion book would allow me to use my old metal Sisters and such. So I grabbed the Codex to see what was going on in the modern game.

    I last played several editions ago during the Witchhunters era Codex.

    In general the ‘new’ book doesn’t look bad, but seems to inherit the old issue that a lot of me metal era sisters stuff was stretching a handful of troop sculpts to fill in the units. So I felt like we had (and still have) basic troop squads, troop squads that can take more special weapons, troop squads that can take more heavy weapons, veteran troops, etc. that are still the same basic models in different mixes. This seems to have carried on even as the models got upgraded. There’s basically the Celestians and the Battle Sisters as the basis for all squads.

    I like the ‘religious nutter’ aspects like the Inquisitors, but kind of feel they may be better off on their own with current design philosophies.

    I do feel like the new codex is a bit pricey for what feels likely maybe a dozen pages of rules and some background I didn’t find to be the most inspiring. I don’t regret buying it even as I thought it was the ‘new’ book.

    My personal take on the SoB was that they had a lot of ceremony and devotion but we’re at least as ‘practical’ about war a second the SM but GW does seem to prefer having them really flaunt the ‘cathedralsmon wheels’ aesthetic.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    (I meant Seraphim not Celestians in the above, WH era Celestians being Battle Sisters with a better paint job.)


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 14:43:05


    Post by: Sarouan


    The more I think about it, the more I believe we sister players got "Lumineth-ed" with the first codex.

    It was just easier to think that was just about it because the core was very similar to what we were used to for so many years (yeah, I know, we got the Zephyrim and Mortifiers s truly "new units", but let's be honest : they're seraphim with power swords and better penitent engines with heavy bolters).

    Now we have the "second wave" like the Lumineth that significantly give more units to the army. Not especially filling all of our needs, but well...I see that V9 codex just like the second battletome for the Lumineth, honestly.

    And it's clearly about the Adepta Sororitas indeed. Which I don't mind at all !


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters.


    If that can comfort you, the sisters still enjoy hunting witches. Soooo technically...they can still be called witch hunters.

    Also, "Adepta Sororitas" is easier to copyright than "Witch Hunters" or "Inquisition".


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 16:27:40


    Post by: A.T.


     Mr_Rose wrote:
    Let me tell you about when GW renamed my Sisters of Battle “witch hunters” for some reason and threw in a bunch of sideshow units rather than actually developing the existing army list which had been one of the best in 2nd edition.
    The 2nd ed book had 6 sisters units, 7 ecclesiarchy units (8 if you count the cavalry), and two vehicles.

    I believe the death cultists are technically the only legacy of the Inquisition left in the book. Crusaders are ecclesiarchy units (they were henchmen, but so were hospitallers and sisters dialogus back then), as are arcos, priests, and penitents.

    If GW didn't keep kicking the inquisition to the curb it wouldn't matter if the cultists were moved out into a separate book ynnari-style. They do fit better with the inquisitors but as it stands that move is near enough a squatting for the forseeable future.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 17:43:58


    Post by: Ordana


    tneva82 wrote:
     Ordana wrote:

    Even Penitent engines could be gone with the Sister walker suit thing, but that might be a long shot.



    You realize if they remove that then it's either mortificators are out or they are going to redo mortificator kit barely year since release?
    Yeah I forgot how new the kit is. They are not going away.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 18:52:17


    Post by: Tastyfish


    Inquisitorial retinues really need a full on Kill Team supplement, and be Kill Team first with 40K crossover rules.
    That way you can go absolutely mad with a few small specialists and not have to worry about armies of the things - they can just slot in next to a GK, Tempestus or SoB detachment.

    But Ecclesiarchy stuff definitely should be in the Sisters book, I'd honestly love a 'huddled masses' unit akin to conscripts, of fanatics, pilgrims and whichever poor souls are trapped with them in the various last stands they make.
    The Sisters and the Church being the absolute last line of defence is something that they've referenced several times in the current era.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 21:02:20


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).
    That's just how GW is at the moment. They don't think the Inquisition belongs on the battlefield, so they get nothing new beyond the odd campaign-related special character. Maybe one day that will change, but for now the Inquisition is in the dog house at GW.

     Mr_Rose wrote:
    Let me tell you about when GW renamed my Sisters of Battle “witch hunters” for some reason and threw in a bunch of sideshow units rather than actually developing the existing army list which had been one of the best in 2nd edition. It’s like if they renamed imperial guard “warriors of the imperium” and added Custodes and assassins and sisters of silence out of nowhere, shoehorning them into the background and claiming it was always thus.
    Which might mean more if in doing so the Sisters had lost a bunch of their stuff. They didn't.

    When Witch Hunters became Sisters of Battle again they didn't split all the things from the non-Sisters side and make a complete force. Ditto for Grey Knights. Eventually we got a half-assed "Imperial Agents" book that was valid for about a year.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 21:18:07


    Post by: Sarouan


    TBH, Inquisitors on the battlefield are little more than Inquisitors themselves and whatever army they can requisition. There is no real "Inquisition army" (and if there is one, it's generally more an exception than the rule) - it's mostly made up of existing forces like Astra Militarum regiments, Adepta Sororitas retinues or even some Space Marines chapters that have some ties / debts with the Inquisition (like the Exorcists).

    And even in the past, that's how they were depicted : a few HQ / Elite truly "Inquisition" choices and the rest comes from other forces.

    If you want to represent an Inquisitor and his retinue, I agree it's more akind to a Kill Team game than a 40k one. And if it's a 40k one...the core will definitely be made of other military forces like Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Adepta Sororitas or Astra Militarum.

    In the end, how GW handled Inquisition in recent edition (mainly characters and acolytes as HQ/Elite choice that you can include in other armies) was actually the most faithful to how the Inquisition works in the background. So to me, no they weren't put in the doghouse...they were just always intended to work that way and if GW was to release a full Inquisition book with miniatures, to me it would be made up of mostly characters and a handful of elite choices. They were never really an "army" that can work by itself alone, IMHO.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 21:36:54


    Post by: A.T.


    Sarouan wrote:
    In the end, how GW handled Inquisition in recent edition (mainly characters and acolytes as HQ/Elite choice that you can include in other armies) was actually the most faithful to how the Inquisition works in the background.
    Except they are strongly discouraged from taking their retinue - in part because any more than the inquisitor puts heavy penalties on the list, and in part because what little passes for a retinue these days is a chimp and a handful of inept but enthusiastic bullet catchers.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 21:44:26


    Post by: Sarouan


    A.T. wrote:
    Except they are strongly discouraged from taking their retinue - in part because any more than the inquisitor puts heavy penalties on the list, and in part because what little passes for a retinue these days is a chimp and a handful of inept but enthusiastic bullet catchers.


    And then you remember than most of their retinues in the background actually come from existing forces, and that you simply can play one unit from the "allied army" as their actual retinue.

    Acolyte rules were never as complete as you would like to cover all the possibilities like in the RPG Dark Heresy, anyway.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 22:05:45


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    I disagree. The Acolyte rules from the Daemon/Witch Hunter books were both expansive and flavourful, covering all sorts of potential unit types.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 22:45:23


    Post by: A.T.


    Sarouan wrote:
    Acolyte rules were never as complete as you would like to cover all the possibilities like in the RPG Dark Heresy, anyway.
    Aside from not being able to take a tech priest outside of Inquisitor Lok they covered most of the bases.

    The current arco-flagellant rules are actually something of a casualty of the shrinking inquisition, going from expensive 'elite' units to cheap chaff. I had hoped they would reconsider them with the new plastics. Who knows, perhaps the new dex will - the non-sororitas infantry all suffer from being variations on a theme after they were squashed together in the 5e GK codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 23:26:40


    Post by: Lammia


    I'd be happy with Crusaders/Priests ect. Getting their own book like Inq.

    Let 'em play with Sisters and IG books


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 23:33:56


    Post by: Andykp


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Andykp wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).


    The army was sister of battle then became witch hunters in third. So if what it used to be called is upsetting you then forget about it. They were sisters first so it’s ok.


    I honestly can’t tell if it’s my fault or your fault that you so utterly missed the point I was trying to make.

    Whatever.


    I thinks it’s mine. Apologies.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/14 23:56:59


    Post by: Sarouan


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    I disagree. The Acolyte rules from the Daemon/Witch Hunter books were both expansive and flavourful, covering all sorts of potential unit types.


    That weren't unique or anything you couldn't make from the former codexes, actually. They were litterally imperial guards / storm troopers as basis.

    Face it : it wasn't that great an option. We didn't miss that much since then.

    The Inquisitors themselves were always the stars of the show in terms of real customization.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 00:06:46


    Post by: Grot 6






    Automatically Appended Next Post:



    The obvious question I have to ask-
    Are the SOB supposed to stagger these halberd troops in with heavy bolters and heavy flamers? How much damage can they soak up in use as a holding force to tie someone down with, then jump in with the jump troops?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 00:27:46


    Post by: Sarouan


    Videos of how soldiers in the medieval times used hallberds are nice and all, but pretty much sure they didn't wear power armours enhancing your strength, nor shields with guns included inside. Hell, as much as I'm concerned, we don't even know how the power weapons are affected with their weight (if your blade is enhanced by a force field, do you really need to use a lot of strength to cut through enemy defenses ?).

    Which is why it's pointless to debate about this, really.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 00:34:59


    Post by: holycraptastical


    I don't see what the complaints are about wielding the halberd one-handed. Clearly the battery plugged into the skull icon makes it lunge forward on its own! Punctuate a shield bash with a bolt to the face!

    Visually the unit looks much more recognizable. Regular Celestians look like troops with helmets, these look like actual bodyguards. Bet they'll go great with some characters that want to get in close and survive a round or two of combat.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 03:15:37


    Post by: kurhanik


    Sarouan wrote:
     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    I disagree. The Acolyte rules from the Daemon/Witch Hunter books were both expansive and flavourful, covering all sorts of potential unit types.


    That weren't unique or anything you couldn't make from the former codexes, actually. They were litterally imperial guards / storm troopers as basis.

    Face it : it wasn't that great an option. We didn't miss that much since then.

    The Inquisitors themselves were always the stars of the show in terms of real customization.


    Um...it was a retinue you bought with the Inquisitor who all had various abilities they would bake into it and varied special rules. If you mean the baseline before any special rules/abilities/equipments you purchased the retinue was a Guardsman statline but with a 6+ save then sure, but each of the members varied that baseline. You could have Stormtroopers and Servitors as basic grunts who also granted extra Weapon SKill to the Inquisitor, or have Acolytes (who you could give 15 points of equipment to, so based on the Daemonhunters book at least since I have that at hand right now...could have say Power Armor and a Hellgun on one while another is playing with a Storm Shield and a Bolt Pistol, while a third could have a Storm Bolter and Carapace Armor) throwing themselves in front of the Inquisitor to soak up wounds, and so on..

    I'm not saying that the Inquisitor *didn't* get more options than their flunkies, but saying they were not fully fleshed out or unique is kind of an odd take.

    Plus, at this point I don't even think Inquisition has any access to Power Armor outside of a couple of named characters. Inquisition needs a full fix at this point to bring back their options - and at bare minimum they should be allowed to take specifically Inquisition units with them into other factions without having to eat up a detachment. Something simple like Inquisitor + retinue/acolyte unit + a daemonhost/jokaero and what have you won't break doctrines etc.



    All that said, I really do like those halberd Sisters and hope their price isn't too painful.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 03:31:21


    Post by: alextroy


     holycraptastical wrote:
    I don't see what the complaints are about wielding the halberd one-handed. Clearly the battery plugged into the skull icon makes it lunge forward on its own! Punctuate a shield bash with a bolt to the face!

    Visually the unit looks much more recognizable. Regular Celestians look like troops with helmets, these look like actual bodyguards. Bet they'll go great with some characters that want to get in close and survive a round or two of combat.
    Because it just looks wrong. If you have to justify why something that looks wrong works, you are already losing the style battle.

    Chain weapons get a pass because they are so closely baked into Warhammer lore. Plus everyone thinks they should be super dangerous, even if they are a silly idea for a weapon you want to penetrate armor. That is completely different from explaining how someone is going to chop with a polearm use one-handed.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 03:42:46


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Sarouan wrote:
    That weren't unique or anything you couldn't make from the former codexes, actually. They were litterally imperial guards / storm troopers as basis.
    That's not even slightly true... unless you're talking about the current Acolytes which are just boring base-line humans with very few options? The old Inquisitorial Henchman gave us combat servitors, gun servitors, penitent psykers, servo-skulls, actual Acolytes, anti-daemon Hierophants, over-watching Mystics. And more.

    You could build (largely ineffective) gaggles of melee troops, following their (usually outclassed) Inquisitor Lord into combat. You could build weird collections of freaks to ward off incoming Deep Strikers, or anti-daemon units. There was the (at the time) famed Kyoto-Pattern Inquisitorial Fire Team, named after our very own Kid Kyoto, which was one of the most efficient heavy weapon units around. I scarcely made a Guard list at the time without including one of them.

    An Inquisitor's followers were varied, flexible, and fun. Not really ever very good, but again, these were mostly squishy humans (and even squishier Cheribum and Servo-Skulls).

     alextroy wrote:
    Because it just looks wrong. If you have to justify why something that looks wrong works, you are already losing the style battle.
    People seem to really struggle with the concept that the more fantastical you get, the more the mundane things stick out when they look wrong.

    "This universe has space-ships and daemons from another dimension, so why can't a halberd be used one-handed???"

    Because we know it can't. So it looks wrong.




    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 05:54:37


    Post by: AngryAngel80


    Out of the new sisters stuff, I like the halberd and shield sisters and yes I even like the nundams or megamaids if you will.

    The dogmata model I think sucks and the tank feels boring. The Sister LT Palantine looks nice but I fear she'll cost as much in dollars as she costs in points to field which sucks.

    I really hope they don't make the book crap otherwise. Either way sisters for me is a looks over substance type thing for me but I'd love it if they were actually still going to be good.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 06:20:44


    Post by: Sarouan


    kurhanik wrote:
    Um...it was a retinue you bought with the Inquisitor who all had various abilities they would bake into it and varied special rules. If you mean the baseline before any special rules/abilities/equipments you purchased the retinue was a Guardsman statline but with a 6+ save then sure, but each of the members varied that baseline. You could have Stormtroopers and Servitors as basic grunts who also granted extra Weapon SKill to the Inquisitor, or have Acolytes (who you could give 15 points of equipment to, so based on the Daemonhunters book at least since I have that at hand right now...could have say Power Armor and a Hellgun on one while another is playing with a Storm Shield and a Bolt Pistol, while a third could have a Storm Bolter and Carapace Armor) throwing themselves in front of the Inquisitor to soak up wounds, and so on..

    I'm not saying that the Inquisitor *didn't* get more options than their flunkies, but saying they were not fully fleshed out or unique is kind of an odd take.

    Plus, at this point I don't even think Inquisition has any access to Power Armor outside of a couple of named characters. Inquisition needs a full fix at this point to bring back their options - and at bare minimum they should be allowed to take specifically Inquisition units with them into other factions without having to eat up a detachment. Something simple like Inquisitor + retinue/acolyte unit + a daemonhost/jokaero and what have you won't break doctrines etc.


    H.B.M.C. wrote:That's not even slightly true... unless you're talking about the current Acolytes which are just boring base-line humans with very few options? The old Inquisitorial Henchman gave us combat servitors, gun servitors, penitent psykers, servo-skulls, actual Acolytes, anti-daemon Hierophants, over-watching Mystics. And more.

    You could build (largely ineffective) gaggles of melee troops, following their (usually outclassed) Inquisitor Lord into combat. You could build weird collections of freaks to ward off incoming Deep Strikers, or anti-daemon units. There was the (at the time) famed Kyoto-Pattern Inquisitorial Fire Team, named after our very own Kid Kyoto, which was one of the most efficient heavy weapon units around. I scarcely made a Guard list at the time without including one of them.

    An Inquisitor's followers were varied, flexible, and fun. Not really ever very good, but again, these were mostly squishy humans (and even squishier Cheribum and Servo-Skulls).


    Yep, they had more options in their older codexes, but even then it wasn't that much unique. I'm talking about the Acolytes here, not the special units like Daemonhosts that really had very specific and unique rules to them.

    They were limited to a very specific set of basic Imperium weapons and when you had rules for mystics or hierophants...it was just a gimmick general rule (also usually linked to a very limited weapon options).

    Nostalgia is just blinding you again with the reality at that time. For example, servo-skulls were an equipment option only for inquisitors, not acolytes - and there was even a version where they were just mere token on the battlefield for some rules.

    And yeah, you could have servitors...that are also available in other codexes like Astra Militarum or Adeptus Mechanicus. Like I said, nothing you can do nor find elsewhere. Yep, it feths the rules if you really do so exaggerately in V8/V9, but the point is...you can still do it. It's just not optimized at all for a tournament...exactly the same with the older codexes when you chose options for the background of your Inquisition retinue rather than taking the best options rulewise.

    Moving on.


    kurhanik wrote:All that said, I really do like those halberd Sisters and hope their price isn't too painful.


    I'm honestly expecting a box of 5 at a price similar to bladelords (pessimist me is guessing a bit higher).


    H.B.M.C. wrote:People seem to really struggle with the concept that the more fantastical you get, the more the mundane things stick out when they look wrong.

    "This universe has space-ships and daemons from another dimension, so why can't a halberd be used one-handed???"

    Because we know it can't. So it looks wrong.


    Everything in 40k can't be used or is even remotely realistic. Size of weapons is overly exaggerated. Proportions aren't humanely correct. Transport vehicles are too small for their transport capacity. Guns in the hilt of swords or incorported to a hallberd's blade like for the Custodes is complete insanity, even if the Custodes use hallberds two handed "the right way". Hell even the power armors are impossible if they're really like the background says they are (thick and not just some paper armor worn directly over the skin). And I'm not just talking about "sister boob armors" here.

    They're fantastic miniatures, that's the thing. They're not meant to be historically or realisticly accurate.

    So what you're saying is pointless. If that was really true, 40k miniatures wouldn't be as popular as it is right now. Because to a lot of people, they don't look wrong - they look awesome. Because that's not reality that they're looking for.

    Not even talking about soldiers wearing gothic, overly ornate equipment like the sisters or fighting without a helmet covering your whole face ("headshot !"). Yet, a lot of people like their faces in the open because it gives them more character (and also allow to paint some skin).

    If you nitpick about the real use of hallberds and shields in a fight, then you can't ignore the nonsense rest in 40k. And if it bothers you that much, then that just means 40k isn't meant for you. Go look for a more "realistic SF game" - I suggest you try Infinity...even if they're not escaping some nonsense as well that is necessary to make anime looking SF miniatures.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 07:36:26


    Post by: ImAGeek


    She isn’t using the halberd one handed, she’s holding it one handed, rested on the floor. And until we see the back of the shield or the rest of the unit, we don’t know if they even do use them one handed, or if their other hand is free.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 09:09:32


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Sarouan wrote:
    Nostalgia is just blinding you again with the reality at that time.
    It's pretty clear that you haven't the faintest idea what we're talking about. I mean, referring to Servo-Skulls as equipment choices and tokens? Yeah. We're not talking about those rules. You're talking about different rules that came way, way after.

    Sarouan wrote:
    Everything in 40k can't be used or is even remotely realistic. Size of weapons is overly exaggerated. Proportions aren't humanely correct. Transport vehicles are too small for their transport capacity. Guns in the hilt of swords or incorported to a hallberd's blade like for the Custodes is complete insanity, even if the Custodes use hallberds two handed "the right way". Hell even the power armors are impossible if they're really like the background says they are (thick and not just some paper armor worn directly over the skin). And I'm not just talking about "sister boob armors" here.
    Could you be any more capable of missing my point? (/Chandler)


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 09:18:01


    Post by: His Master's Voice


    Sarouan wrote:
    Everything in 40k can't be used or is even remotely realistic.


    That's both untrue, and irrelevant to the point made.I don't need to bring up all the other examples of what I find impossible or unrealistic in a setting to point out that some specific component looks wrong. It's not a contest between one handed halberds and Space Marine hip structure, no matter how much some people would want to make it one.

    Suspension of disbelief is a limited resource. All fantastic stories need to anchor the audience with some amount of familiarity derived from personal experience of the real world, lest they become absurdist, or in extreme cases, abstract. And while absurdism might work well in a piece of media a person experiences once, it doesn't generally work well in a setting one is meant to engage with over time.

    We accept flying cathedral space ships and dragons as a functional part of a fantasy/sf setting because we have no personal experience with either of those things, so we cannot tell if they work as our repository of knowledge tells us they should. FTL travel in a hard SF story might fit the same criteria for 99% of readers, but an astrophysicist will writhe in pain reading about it. Some people in this thread have practical or researched experience with pole arm weapons and they find the notion of wielding one one-handed grating against their suspension of disbelief, a resource already strained by all the other crazy that 40k revels in.

    You're not obligated to complain about the halberd, as everyone's personal experience is different, but 'a wizard did it' isn't always a valid argument.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 09:36:58


    Post by: A.T.


    Sarouan wrote:
    Nostalgia is just blinding you again with the reality at that time. For example, servo-skulls were an equipment option only for inquisitors, not acolytes - and there was even a version where they were just mere token on the battlefield for some rules.
    Perhaps it would help if you glanced over the books, otherwise this is going to end up with several pages of off topic yes they were / no they weren't.
    GW released cut-down versions for free:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20130320021443/http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050291a_Codex__Witch_Hunters
    https://web.archive.org/web/20130617033945/http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050287a_Codex__Daemonhunters


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 09:52:37


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


     His Master's Voice wrote:


    You're not obligated to complain about the halberd, as everyone's personal experience is different, but 'a wizard did it' isn't always a valid argument.


    It's not about "a wizard did it", but internal consistency for decades.

    It's not just flying cathedrals. It's just the same for the identical impracticality of chainswords, giant powerhammers or anime-fists smacking down 40 feet Warwalker-Machines, lighting claws, disproportinal guns the size of the guy wielding them (gene-enhanced or not). The halberd might be inconsistent for game/IP with a past of mostly suspension-of-disbelieve weapons. But 40K isn't that.

    It fits the established pattern of weapons commonly seen in 40K and an accurate halberd would be as out of place in 40K as it would be in Monster Hunter or whatever.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 11:08:08


    Post by: Sarouan


    H.B.M.C. wrote:Could you be any more capable of missing my point? (/Chandler)


    You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.

    My point is if that's the case, then that means you were blind about everything else that were way worse than that and still made for 40k before that - including when it started with metal miniatures.

    You're failing to see that, apparently.


    His Master's Voice wrote:
    That's both untrue, and irrelevant to the point made.I don't need to bring up all the other examples of what I find impossible or unrealistic in a setting to point out that some specific component looks wrong. It's not a contest between one handed halberds and Space Marine hip structure, no matter how much some people would want to make it one.

    Suspension of disbelief is a limited resource. All fantastic stories need to anchor the audience with some amount of familiarity derived from personal experience of the real world, lest they become absurdist, or in extreme cases, abstract. And while absurdism might work well in a piece of media a person experiences once, it doesn't generally work well in a setting one is meant to engage with over time.


    I'm just saying if your suspension of disbelief is about the fighting style of a futuristic hallberd and shield with a power-armored sister, then it means that the people complaining about that specific part aren't really seeing the rest of much more suspensions of disbelief in 40k.

    Hell, even firing with a bolter one-handed would be a big one. Yet it's the same case.

    And it was way older than celestians wielding halberds :




    You're not obligated to complain about the halberd, as everyone's personal experience is different, but 'a wizard did it' isn't always a valid argument.


    Sister in power armor. Background specifically said the power armors enhance the strength of the user, not just Space Marines. That's the valid argument. No need of invoking wizards or putting videos of how medieval soldiers fought with halberds (without power armor, should I say it again).

    Your suspension of disbelief is just misplaced, that's all.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 11:30:39


    Post by: His Master's Voice


    Sarouan wrote:
    I'm just saying if your suspension of disbelief is about the fighting style of a futuristic hallberd and shield with a power-armored sister, then it means that the people complaining about that specific part aren't really seeing the rest of much more suspensions of disbelief in 40k.


    Again, it's not a contest.

    I dealt with the silliness of chainswords and powerfists twenty years ago. I'm sure, in time, I'll deal with one handed halberds. In the mean time, I'll point out how unfeasible they are.

    Sarouan wrote:
    Your suspension of disbelief is just misplaced, that's all.


    Why, thank you. Whatever would I do without you graciously explaining how wrong my subjective perception of a piece of fiction is.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 12:35:48


    Post by: jake


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:


    Sorry, but I just don’t agree with your line of argument here. You’re essentially claiming that a big chunk of the units in this army are not actually part of this army because they’re not actually Sororitas. Never mind that arco flagellants aren’t Sisters and penitent engines aren’t sister, but they do have plastic kits. Let’s completely ignore that crusaders, death cult assassins and priests have always been part of this army.

    You could argue that what I’m wanting is the old Witch Hunters army, not strictly sisters. Well yes. Yes it is, because to me that’s what the army is. Culling the army of anything that isn’t an actual Sister of Battle strips away a lot of the character. Luckily that isn’t what GW have done because penitent engines and arco flagellants! However they’ve left the main house unfinished but started working on an extension.


    Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders were not always part of the army. They only showed up in the Witch Hunters codex along with the INQ elements.

    I disagree that cutting the non-Sisters elements of the army removes character. Instead, it finally returns the army's original character. I remember when Witch Hunters was first released and so many of us were so disappointed to find that Sisters had become supporting characters in their own army for a circus of Inquisitors and freakshow randos. There were a LOT of very unhappy Sisters players.

    So you may wish the army was more Witch Hunter flavored. Fine. I wish all that stuff could be stripped from the army. But I think a good compromise would be to put Priests, Missionaries, Arcos, Crusdaers, Penitent Engines, Deathcult Assassins and any other random Ministorium stuff in its own supplement that can be taken along side Sisters (Or Guard, or INQ). That way Sisters can expand and be about actual Sisters, but people who like Witch Hunters or just Ministorium stuff can use as much of that as they like (possibly even without Sisters at all).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 12:42:45


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


     jake wrote:
    They only showed up in the Witch Hunters codex along with the INQ elements.

    I disagree that cutting the non-Sisters elements of the army removes character. Instead, it finally returns the army's original character. I remember when Witch Hunters was first released and so many of us were so disappointed to find that Sisters had become supporting characters in their own army for a circus of Inquisitors and freakshow randos. There were a LOT of very unhappy Sisters players.

    So you may wish the army was more Witch Hunter flavored. Fine. I wish all that stuff could be stripped from the army. But I think a good compromise would be to put Priests, Missionaries, Arcos, Crusdaers, Penitent Engines, Deathcult Assassins and any other random Ministorium stuff in its own supplement that can be take along side Sisters (Or Guard, or INQ). That was Sisters can expand and be about actual Sisters, but people who like Witch Hunters or just Ministorium stuff can use as much of that as they like.


    That doesn't make sense.

    If you don't like some of the options in the army, don't use them.

    Denying other people who enjoy those options the opportunity to take them would have zero impact on your army.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 12:45:10


    Post by: Wha-Mu-077


    Sometimes i look at older models and wonder how GW ever got big as a company if they made things that looked like that.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 12:48:20


    Post by: jake


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).


    BEFORE the army was Witch Hunters it was Sisters of Battle. And then instead of giving us the same updates and plastic releases that most other 3rd edition armies got they changed us to an Inquisition force, stuck in a bunch of random non-sisters stuff and Sisters became guest stars in what used to be their own army.

    I'm sorry you've lost out on an army you enjoyed. That sucks. But I'm not sorry that Sisters actually finally got to be Sisters again after a lifetime of waiting.

    Maybe you should campaign for an actual INQ force that doesn't co-opt someone elses army and release schedule?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Sunny Side Up wrote:
     jake wrote:
    They only showed up in the Witch Hunters codex along with the INQ elements.

    I disagree that cutting the non-Sisters elements of the army removes character. Instead, it finally returns the army's original character. I remember when Witch Hunters was first released and so many of us were so disappointed to find that Sisters had become supporting characters in their own army for a circus of Inquisitors and freakshow randos. There were a LOT of very unhappy Sisters players.

    So you may wish the army was more Witch Hunter flavored. Fine. I wish all that stuff could be stripped from the army. But I think a good compromise would be to put Priests, Missionaries, Arcos, Crusdaers, Penitent Engines, Deathcult Assassins and any other random Ministorium stuff in its own supplement that can be take along side Sisters (Or Guard, or INQ). That was Sisters can expand and be about actual Sisters, but people who like Witch Hunters or just Ministorium stuff can use as much of that as they like.


    That doesn't make sense.

    If you don't like some of the options in the army, don't use them.

    Denying other people who enjoy those options the opportunity to take them would have zero impact on your army.


    I'm not advocating denying anyone the use of those models. I'm suggesting that they should be expanded into their own line that can be used along side Sisters by people who want to do that. This would allow Sisters to grow as its own army without the design constraint of extraneous non-Sisters units, and potentially allow the Ministorium units to grow as an allied force for Sisters, INQ and Guard. Nothing is lost, but new possibilities are gained.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 13:27:51


    Post by: A.T.


     jake wrote:
    I'm suggesting that they should be expanded into their own line that can be used along side Sisters by people who want to do that. This would allow Sisters to grow as its own army without the design constraint of extraneous non-Sisters units, and potentially allow the Ministorium units to grow as an allied force for Sisters, INQ and Guard. Nothing is lost, but new possibilities are gained.
    What design constraint?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 13:32:02


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Sarouan wrote:
    You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.
    No.

    My point, which I thought was perfectly clear, was that the more fantastical the universe, the more the simple things stick out when they're not right. In a world with space-ships and daemons from another dimension, it's going to be things like "one-handed halberds" that stand out as weird.

    And I see we've just skipped past the Inquisitorial Acolyte stuff now that you've been shown to have no idea what the rest of us were talking about.



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 13:34:16


    Post by: His Master's Voice


    A.T. wrote:
    What design constraint?


    Well, there's a finite amount of unit entries a book can hold. I'm not even talking about internal balancing, there's only so many pages to go around.

    While I'll always have a soft spot for crusade style SoB, where the Sisters were an actual elite component of the force, I get why GW wants the current iteration to be more focused. People just don't appreciate screaming hordes of self mutilated fanatics they way they used to back in the day...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 13:46:51


    Post by: A.T.


     His Master's Voice wrote:
    Well, there's a finite amount of unit entries a book can hold. I'm not even talking about internal balancing, there's only so many pages to go around.
    What are the marines up to these days, 120 units?
    Sisters are ~25 units IIRC, including the new ones. So i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest half a dozen ecclesiarchal units isn't going to break the back of the faction any time soon.

     His Master's Voice wrote:
    I get why GW wants the current iteration to be more focused. People just don't appreciate screaming hordes of self mutilated fanatics they way they used to back in the day...
    Well they did just release new plastic repentia, arco-flagellants, and penitent engines so that probably isn't the case. And then there are the all new hedonites...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 14:02:56


    Post by: Sarouan


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Sarouan wrote:
    You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.
    No.

    My point, which I thought was perfectly clear, was that the more fantastical the universe, the more the simple things stick out when they're not right. In a world with space-ships and daemons from another dimension, it's going to be things like "one-handed halberds" that stand out as weird.

    And I see we've just skipped past the Inquisitorial Acolyte stuff now that you've been shown to have no idea what the rest of us were talking about.


    Not at all, my point about Acolytes still stand even if we don't take into account the servo-skulls. It's just pointless to talk about it anymore, since you don't want to aknowledge the fact that older versions weren't giving you the possibility to take different detachments from multiple codexes like in V8, and thus the "freedom" isn't just limited to one Inquisitorial list like before. So the possibilities aren't the same as well and the fact there are less options in the inquisitorial retinue don't matter as much like before.


    And about your point, it's exactly the same answer : if using a halberd one handed is making it stand out as weird for you, then you should have already ticked about the rest before it. 40k was always that way. Saying it stand out weird now is the weird thing. That you didn't answer that is not surprising : you don't want to, because it would go against your own argument.

    What I mean if it wasn't the halberd, it would be another thing someone doesn't agree with. When the Parangon battlesuits were revealed, it was because the sisters look non-sensical or whatever because their arms were put in the battlesuits arms while the legs are. Or that the proportions weren't correct given the battlesuit's leg position. Or whatever else. Every 40k release has something weird and unrealistic to someone. Even when they're not realist on purpose.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 15:06:02


    Post by: A.T.


    Sarouan wrote:
    It's just pointless to talk about it anymore, since you don't want to aknowledge the fact that older versions weren't giving you the possibility to take different detachments from multiple codexes like in V8, and thus the "freedom" isn't just limited to one Inquisitorial list like before
    Off topic, but the old WH/DH books could draw units from guard and marines (and the other inquisition books). Without all of the penalties and limitations you suffer in 9th for doing so.

    9th edition in general is not particularly friendly to armies who are looking to mix and match (though it doesn't outright prevent it either).


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 15:10:11


    Post by: jake


    A.T. wrote:
     jake wrote:
    I'm suggesting that they should be expanded into their own line that can be used along side Sisters by people who want to do that. This would allow Sisters to grow as its own army without the design constraint of extraneous non-Sisters units, and potentially allow the Ministorium units to grow as an allied force for Sisters, INQ and Guard. Nothing is lost, but new possibilities are gained.
    What design constraint?


    Well, as many people have pointed out, Sisters already has LOTS of melee units. The new Ceslestians may or may not fill a niche, but there would be a LOT more room for a new melee unit without Arcos, Crusaders, Death Cult assassins and Penitent Engines. Those non-Sisters units fill a lot of design space in the army. Removing them, removing that design constraint, makes room new Sisters units that can fill those spaces.

    It works the other way too. without sisters to fill the space of Line Infantry, Veterans, Heavy Weapons, Leaders and fast attackers the Ministorium units could be expanded. a lot of people seem to really want Frateris Militia return. Thats currently a niche filled by Battle Sister Squads. But if Sisters and Ministorium were separate forces that wouldn't be a problem.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 15:17:27


    Post by: A.T.


     jake wrote:
    Those non-Sisters units fill a lot of design space in the army. Removing them, removing that design constraint, makes room new Sisters units that can fill those spaces.
    That statement cannot be supported by the ongoing actions of GW.

    Games Workshop has not demonstrated any kind of balanced codex structure concerns when adding units - if the ecclesiarchy was split off it'd still be even odds for their next three units to be glass cannon melee units and the next three sisters units to be power armoured infantry carrying bolters, flamers, and meltaguns... or a vindicator, techpriest, and stormraven.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 15:18:28


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Sarouan wrote:
    Not at all, my point about Acolytes still stand...
    Except it doesn't, because your point is contradicted by the facts of the rules in question. You didn't seem to realise what Acolyte rules we were talking about. Someone even had to post a link to the old rules.

    Sarouan wrote:
    ... since you don't want to aknowledge the fact that older versions weren't giving you the possibility to take different detachments from multiple codexes like in V8, and thus the "freedom" isn't just limited to one Inquisitorial list like before. So the possibilities aren't the same as well and the fact there are less options in the inquisitorial retinue don't matter as much like before.
    Were we even talking about that? Why would I (or anyone) acknowledge a point that is irrelevant to the discussion at hand?

    Your initial argument was that the "[a]colyte rules were never as complete as [we] would like to cover all the possibilities like in the RPG Dark Heresy..." which, as shown time and time again, simply isn't true. The Dark Heresy Acolytes are essentially more fleshed out extensions of the Daemon/Witch Hunter Henchmen retinues (makes sense, it's an RPG, allowing for greater granularity than a D6 based wargame).

    You then followed up with the notion that the Inquisitorial retinues "weren't unique or anything you couldn't make from the former codexes, actually. They were litterally imperial guards / storm troopers...", which, again, is false. Demonstrably false. Categorically false.

    Now you're talking about multiple detachments and other stuff that never entered into the original argument. Before that you brought up Daemonhosts, which weren't even part of Inquisitorial retinues. So, again, it seems like you don't really know what we're arguing about because you keep talking about things that are either unrelated or flat out wrong.

    I don't know how to proceed when a conversation about apples starts and one person won't stop talking about oranges.

    Sarouan wrote:
    ... then you should have already ticked about the rest before it.
    Then I have no recourse but to surmise that you simply don't understand what we're talking about. I see no other possibility here. Sorry you don't get it. *shrugs*



    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 17:18:20


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


     Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
    Sometimes i look at older models and wonder how GW ever got big as a company if they made things that looked like that.


    That’s because, at the time, most of the competition looked even worse.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 17:38:12


    Post by: kurhanik


     jake wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    But here’s the issue I have and the reason I’m upset (that’s too strong a word, it’s just toy soldiers after all), the army used to be called Witch Hunters. They renamed the army to the name of just one part of the army, then we have people saying that all those other units really have no place being in the army that they used to be a part of. Talk about moving the goal posts. It’s like if they’d renamed Craftworld Eldar, Aspect Warriors and people were now claiming that all those other units were just there to make up the numbers and really have no part in the future of the Aspect Warriors army.

    Or to put it another way, you used to be able to legitimately play both Witch Hunters and Grey Knights as an Inquisition army with support from either Grey Knights or Sisters. That’s basically gone. That makes me sad to the point that I don’t want to have anything to do with 40K these days other than reading the fiction (about Inquisitors mostly).


    BEFORE the army was Witch Hunters it was Sisters of Battle. And then instead of giving us the same updates and plastic releases that most other 3rd edition armies got they changed us to an Inquisition force, stuck in a bunch of random non-sisters stuff and Sisters became guest stars in what used to be their own army.

    I'm sorry you've lost out on an army you enjoyed. That sucks. But I'm not sorry that Sisters actually finally got to be Sisters again after a lifetime of waiting.

    Maybe you should campaign for an actual INQ force that doesn't co-opt someone elses army and release schedule?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Sunny Side Up wrote:
     jake wrote:
    They only showed up in the Witch Hunters codex along with the INQ elements.

    I disagree that cutting the non-Sisters elements of the army removes character. Instead, it finally returns the army's original character. I remember when Witch Hunters was first released and so many of us were so disappointed to find that Sisters had become supporting characters in their own army for a circus of Inquisitors and freakshow randos. There were a LOT of very unhappy Sisters players.

    So you may wish the army was more Witch Hunter flavored. Fine. I wish all that stuff could be stripped from the army. But I think a good compromise would be to put Priests, Missionaries, Arcos, Crusdaers, Penitent Engines, Deathcult Assassins and any other random Ministorium stuff in its own supplement that can be take along side Sisters (Or Guard, or INQ). That was Sisters can expand and be about actual Sisters, but people who like Witch Hunters or just Ministorium stuff can use as much of that as they like.


    That doesn't make sense.

    If you don't like some of the options in the army, don't use them.

    Denying other people who enjoy those options the opportunity to take them would have zero impact on your army.


    I'm not advocating denying anyone the use of those models. I'm suggesting that they should be expanded into their own line that can be used along side Sisters by people who want to do that. This would allow Sisters to grow as its own army without the design constraint of extraneous non-Sisters units, and potentially allow the Ministorium units to grow as an allied force for Sisters, INQ and Guard. Nothing is lost, but new possibilities are gained.


    Here is the thing though, we've already seen where this goes with how horribly Daemonhunters was butchered up. Before, they were: Inquisition, Imperial Guard Stormtroopers, Grey Knights, and could take a small force of either Imperial Guard or Space Marines without penalty. Now? Unless you want a single Inquisitor and none of their other units, you need an Inquisitor Detachment, a Guard (specifically Scions if you want the 4+ armor hellgun guys, though they aren't an exact match for old Stormtroopers anymore what with more wargear restrictions and native deep strike) Detachment, and then a Grey Knights detachment. Then if you wanted to take inducted forces you'd need a separate Guard force. I mean theoretically you could use Scions in a regular Guard detachment to bring it down to 3, but you are then playing them as a worse version of themselves.

    As is, if someone wants to play the old Witch Hunters Inquisitorial force you would need to run Inquisition, Imperial Guard Scions again, and Sisters. If this gets broken down even more, it would mean 4 codices and 4 detachments just to have a bare minimum force of what you once were able to do in and of itself.

    I like Sisters, I like them a lot and honestly prefer them to much of the Ministorum stuff. I'm also glad that they are getting a melee unit to move with the footsloggers that aren't disgraced Sisters - it is giving more options to the army to play as Sisters that are in good standing with the order. I just don't want to see the book get cut up into fractured pieces like the old Daemonhunters were.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 17:48:41


    Post by: Sarouan


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Then I have no recourse but to surmise that you simply don't understand what we're talking about. I see no other possibility here. Sorry you don't get it. *shrugs*


    And sorry you don't as well.


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
    Sometimes i look at older models and wonder how GW ever got big as a company if they made things that looked like that.


    That’s because, at the time, most of the competition looked even worse.


    To be honest, at the time it was first released, it was actually considered good. Even the good old zombie kit was seen as awesome when it first came out.

    These new sisters won't be the exception. We can only compare to what is available at our time, never to what could be in the future.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 18:08:04


    Post by: cuda1179


    yukishiro1 wrote:
    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    As I have all ready pointed out, this is wrong. You can swing a two handed weapon while equipped with a shield, and was historically done.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 18:38:03


    Post by: Grot 6


    Sarouan wrote:
    Videos of how soldiers in the medieval times used hallberds are nice and all, but pretty much sure they didn't wear power armours enhancing your strength, nor shields with guns included inside. Hell, as much as I'm concerned, we don't even know how the power weapons are affected with their weight (if your blade is enhanced by a force field, do you really need to use a lot of strength to cut through enemy defenses ?).

    Which is why it's pointless to debate about this, really.





    First- THIS is a basis of the conversation on Pikes.
    These guys are experts in the weapons they are talking about, so you can see a - at minimum, a very basic discussion to give people like you a place to go from to get into the conversation in the first place. Just because you don't know what you talking about, don't fault someone from trying to add in a very basic explanation to further the conversation. I'm trying to help you, even if you don't believe it, because obviously, you don't know what the purpose of the Poke is for in the game here, and the advantage of Sisters of Battle having one. They are armored women, after all. I can see, even if it isn't obvious to you why a woman would have an advantage with a set pike against something like a space marine rolling in fast on them.

    Of course, if you want me to get down into some Gangsta' S@@$5, I can oblige you in that as well.

    Second- A pole arm in combination with weapons is a very good place to go for something like Sisters of Battle.
    The use of the pole arm- power pole arm, laser pole arm, whatever, is a good bolster for a defense in as much as that of the late 15th century, As with the Gustavus evolution of the "Pike and Shot" warfare. Just like the Brits did with the Longbow, You spike in the shield into the ground, spike in the pole arm, and you are ready with a ready made point defense that heavy weapons and bolter firer's can fall behind, as you are getting overrun by Nids, Demons, Whatever..

    The Shield and Pike are carried together, not used together. That's why the bottom of the shield is pointed like it is.
    I see it in 40K as a very good addition, seeing where the material of the game came from in the first place.

    Gustavus Reforms (Squares)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=439NEPZqdxA

    Shields (how they carried it)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2NzNSDeAII

    Put these together, you can see how they use a Pike and shield.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 18:51:11


    Post by: bullyboy


    Ignoring combat roles for a second, these are obviously bodyguard units, and as such may carry these weapons more of a position of title than actual use. You see it throughout medieval Europe as far as guards are concerned. A halberd or other 'long arm" just gives that "guard" look, and that's good enough for me.

    As to the other conversation about retinues, witch hunters etc, this is where having friends for pseudo narrative games should come in. It's not really that difficult. Unless practicing for an event with a specific list, I doubt any of my buddies would object to the inclusion of an Inquisitor with a retinue of models that don't actually have official rules for a retinue, but are found elsewhere. On my shelf right now I have Greyfax with a retinue that includes a Crusader, a death cult assassin, 2 arco flagellants, a penitent engine, and pious vane. This looks like an Ordo Herticus retinue, and I have the points I need to field it (although the pen engine would run solo). I feel bad for those that are always constrained by a strict army construction mindset, unless that's just the way you prefer to play.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 18:52:29


    Post by: Ahtman


    I was just going to cut the axe bit off and make it a power spear but then I like spear + shield.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 19:54:52


    Post by: yukishiro1


     cuda1179 wrote:
    yukishiro1 wrote:
    You can thrust with a two-handed weapon while holding a shield, you cannot swing with one, and she certainly can't use that halberd one-handed. That halberd is completely unusable.

    Although you can say 40k isn't supposed to be realistic, it's unusual for them to model something so obviously impossible.



    As I have all ready pointed out, this is wrong. You can swing a two handed weapon while equipped with a shield, and was historically done.


    Please read the words I actually wrote. Hint: you re-wrote them to try to make an easier straw man to knock down.

    But even beyond that, I don't really understand what point you think you are making. Of course you can physically strap a shield onto yourself and then use a two-handed weapon. That's obvious. You can strap a ladder onto yourself too if you really want to, or a poodle. Is that shield strapped onto her? No, it isn't. It has also a gun built into it, so quite obviously it is not designed to be strapped, even if you couldn't tell that just from looking at it.

    To be clear, I don't think it's a massive deal or anything. It's just dumb. There are other dumb things modeled on GW miniatures, it won't be the first or last time they modeled something dumb. It doesn't need to be a big deal. Ironically it's the people who can't accept someone thinks it's dumb who are making it into a bigger deal than it needs to be.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 20:58:28


    Post by: tneva82


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
    Sometimes i look at older models and wonder how GW ever got big as a company if they made things that looked like that.


    That’s because, at the time, most of the competition looked even worse.


    Also they opened up own stores and really pushed them as hobby driving warhammer and miniatures as synonyms for large public


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/15 21:34:58


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    tneva82 wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
     Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
    Sometimes i look at older models and wonder how GW ever got big as a company if they made things that looked like that.


    That’s because, at the time, most of the competition looked even worse.


    Also they opened up own stores and really pushed them as hobby driving warhammer and miniatures as synonyms for large public


    True. I was more thinking about the days before GW shops, before even 1st edition Warhammer. You could go into a shop selling miniatures (usually in the same section as D&D modules) and see minis by several manufacturers, often on the same racks. I’d still go for the Citadel miniatures most of the time because they were the best ones.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/16 09:03:07


    Post by: Sarouan


     Grot 6 wrote:
    blabla on pikes and shield


    Like I said, it's pointless. Same debates we had on litterally every "unrealistic weapon / fighting style" in 40k before.

    One last thing : the halberd is just one weapon option from these new Celestians. The article mentions they can also be equiped with maces.

    Fighting with one handed mace and shield ? Perfectly reasonnable. And this whole debate on halberds being unhandy with shields will be resolved the same way than people putting helmets on their miniatures rather than bare heads : build them that way if you're fine with your suspension of disbelief. So it's even more stupid to moan about it now when you don't even have all the options from the kit showed.

    Oh, what if the halberd weapon profile is way more interesting than the maces rulewise ? Well I bet suddenly most of suspensions of disbelief will be more tolerant to that fighting style, in the end. And if it's the maces that are way more optimal with rules...the debate will die its silent death like the others that were utterly and completely useless to have.

    Who knows ? Maybe the kit will be made as such it would be possible to remove the shield and say that its added protection given by the rules are actually some kind of force field that could be generated by their backpack, and you can have two hands free for the perfect use of your halberd.

    In the end, it's mostly how you want to build your miniatures to fit your suspension of disbelief. It's still modelism, after all, not pre-builded, pre-painted miniatures. Even so, that never stopped people from converting models to suit them more.

    Of course, if your real bone here is "but the option exist for anyone to build them with halberds and shield, that's just wrong !!", then it's actually another debate : the fact you can't stand someone else can build their miniatures the way they want that is not fitting your vision of how they should be.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/16 11:32:18


    Post by: Galas


    GW reasoning for why halberd instead of spear is pretty easy to follow.

    They wanted a polearm wielding bodyguard unit with shield. (Because polearms are instantly associated with the guys protecting the castle and the king)

    They could have give them spears, but spears are much simpler, they are also something Grey Knights and Custodes allready use.

    Halberds are much more ornate, and have a much more "medieval" look, something GW is looking for new sisters of battle. So halberds it is.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/16 14:21:48


    Post by: MobileSuitRandom


    One funny thing about this discussion is that Chaos Warriors have been equipped with halberds + shields since basically ever, and AFAIK still have the option on their current warscroll
    Spoiler:


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/16 16:20:41


    Post by: Abaddon303


     MobileSuitRandom wrote:
    One funny thing about this discussion is that Chaos Warriors have been equipped with halberds + shields since basically ever, and AFAIK still have the option on their current warscroll
    Spoiler:


    Please refrain from posting things that could potentially jeopardise the potential for Dakka to have a 5 page argument over something insignificant...


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/16 18:14:30


    Post by: tneva82


     MobileSuitRandom wrote:
    One funny thing about this discussion is that Chaos Warriors have been equipped with halberds + shields since basically ever, and AFAIK still have the option on their current warscroll
    Spoiler:


    And thev either had no shield in melee oi like now it's actually spear rather than halberd. They use it like spear rathei than halberd

    So comparison is apt as long as halberds on sisters get no shield bonus in melee or punch is weak but longer range. No s bonus, bad ap


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/16 18:32:05


    Post by: Sarouan


    tneva82 wrote:


    And thev either had no shield in melee oi like now it's actually spear rather than halberd. They use it like spear rathei than halberd

    So comparison is apt as long as halberds on sisters get no shield bonus in melee or punch is weak but longer range. No s bonus, bad ap


    You'll have plenty of time for that to wait for the rules to actually show up, don't worry. Enough to forget the outrage for another scandalous thing GW will dare to come up with meanwhile.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 04:06:25


    Post by: Kaffis


    So, looking beyond the arguments that have been running the past few days, anybody want to share speculation or wishlisting about rules effects of gosh-darned actual power halberds?

    I'd love to see them negate the "charger fights first" effect that really plagues Sisters' T3 CC units when receiving a charge and would go a long way towards making them feel tougher without just giving them outrageous, terminator-level saves.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 11:43:24


    Post by: Grot 6


     Grot 6 wrote:
    blabla on pikes and shield


    A whole bunch of nonsense.


    Like I said, I tried to help you, then you pulled that out of your fourth point of contact. At this point, you are tapped yourself out of the conversation, Thanks for playing.

    Please do not attach non-wargaming images to your posts. External hosting is fine however.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 11:51:15


    Post by: Lammia


    Kaffis wrote:
    So, looking beyond the arguments that have been running the past few days, anybody want to share speculation or wishlisting about rules effects of gosh-darned actual power halberds?

    I'd love to see them negate the "charger fights first" effect that really plagues Sisters' T3 CC units when receiving a charge and would go a long way towards making them feel tougher without just giving them outrageous, terminator-level saves.
    Fight first would be an odd ability on a weapon. But it would certainly make them an interesting option as a unit


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 14:44:31


    Post by: A.T.


    Kaffis wrote:
    So, looking beyond the arguments that have been running the past few days, anybody want to share speculation or wishlisting about rules effects of gosh-darned actual power halberds?
    Depends on whether GW are moving away from their 8th edition habits. A year or two back if you asked me what I though power halberds would do i'd have guessed they would be required to use the new 'hold the line' stratagem and not much beyond that.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 15:10:39


    Post by: Matt.Kingsley


    I'd guess that at the very least they're probably Power Axes, but with Damage 2.
    EDIT: wait, I forgot that they're meant to be Blessed weapons, so they'll proably also be S+3 instead of +2


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 16:39:44


    Post by: Sarouan


    I don't think the new celestian weapons will be on the same level than the canoness' blessed blade just because there is the word "blessed" in it. They're talking about blessed maces as well.

    EDIT : by that, I mean they'll have the same current profile, but I agree I may be totally wrong on that point here.

    To me, the point of giving them other names is to make a different profile from "generic" power weapons the Imperium has. So I expect they will be slightly different.

    Otherwise, they'll still be celestians so I don't think they will be tremendously powerful. I'm expecting a bit like Zephyrim's level but with more strength and a different AP depending if it's maces and halberds. "Blessed" could be also a keyword for some mechanism / stratagem in the codex, or have a special rule on it, or just nothing.

    Main difference will certainly be the shield's effect. Honestly, I'm expecting they will have a 4++ save. Don't think they will really need an improved profile in comparison to "normal" celestians, the existing one is already perfect for close combat units with good equipment.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/17 23:55:11


    Post by: Mmmpi


    They could be power axes with 1d3 damage, but no strength buff outside of what the normal power axe gives. D2 is probably more likely though.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 01:09:47


    Post by: drbored


    Yeah, really interested in the rules for the shield as well. Sisters already get a flat 6+ invul.

    I could see it giving them a 2+/5++. Then, it would give things that boost invul to 4++ a purpose while also making these melee celestians more potent even if you don't use invul boost bubbles.

    Keep in mind that I expect the celestians to still be Toughness 3, which would help balance it all out. They'll take more wounds overall than a terminator, and likely not have more ablative wounds to resist, so a 2+/4++ on a celestian wouldn't mean nearly as much as it would on a T4, 3 wound terminator.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 01:11:37


    Post by: alextroy


    I see a a very high chance of it being a Storm Shield - 4++ with a +1 to Armor Save.

    Slightly less likely is just the 4++.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 09:00:55


    Post by: ERJAK


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Sarouan wrote:
    You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.
    No.

    My point, which I thought was perfectly clear, was that the more fantastical the universe, the more the simple things stick out when they're not right. In a world with space-ships and daemons from another dimension, it's going to be things like "one-handed halberds" that stand out as weird.

    And I see we've just skipped past the Inquisitorial Acolyte stuff now that you've been shown to have no idea what the rest of us were talking about.



    The problem is your point is stupid. The first part is blatantly false, in a world of space magic and tentacle monsters, no one gives a gak if small stuff is also weird. "Oh yeah, I was super enjoying the rape daemons and floating cathedral tanks, but then I noticed that the field medic's pack had 3 bandage rolls in it instead of 2 and it totally took me out of it!"

    Secondly...why wouldn't a one hand halberd work in this case? She's wearing power armor so it's not like she can't physically manuever it and 90% of everything she'll fight is roughly twice as tall as she is. If anything swiping at the bad guy's knees with a regular power sword is more ridiculous.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 09:07:42


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    ERJAK wrote:
    The problem is your point is stupid.
    Thanks for joining in.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 09:30:15


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    ERJAK wrote:
     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Sarouan wrote:
    You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.
    No.

    My point, which I thought was perfectly clear, was that the more fantastical the universe, the more the simple things stick out when they're not right. In a world with space-ships and daemons from another dimension, it's going to be things like "one-handed halberds" that stand out as weird.

    And I see we've just skipped past the Inquisitorial Acolyte stuff now that you've been shown to have no idea what the rest of us were talking about.



    The problem is your point is stupid. The first part is blatantly false, in a world of space magic and tentacle monsters, no one gives a gak if small stuff is also weird. "Oh yeah, I was super enjoying the rape daemons and floating cathedral tanks, but then I noticed that the field medic's pack had 3 bandage rolls in it instead of 2 and it totally took me out of it!"

    Secondly...why wouldn't a one hand halberd work in this case? She's wearing power armor so it's not like she can't physically manuever it and 90% of everything she'll fight is roughly twice as tall as she is. If anything swiping at the bad guy's knees with a regular power sword is more ridiculous.


    Your point is stupid

    Using halberds one handed has got nothing to do with weight. Halberds are not heavy, about 4kg max. When you use a halberd one handed what you’ve essentially got is just an axe with an impractically long handle.

    Oh, and I totally agree with HBMC about things needing to be grounded in a sense of faux reality for the more fanciful stuff to not just be ridiculous. Opinions differ, but that’s ok. I don’t really think you’re stupid because your opinion is different to mine


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 09:47:04


    Post by: Coenus Scaldingus


    ERJAK wrote:
    Secondly...why wouldn't a one hand halberd work in this case? She's wearing power armor so it's not like she can't physically manuever it and 90% of everything she'll fight is roughly twice as tall as she is. If anything swiping at the bad guy's knees with a regular power sword is more ridiculous.
    Why is the shape of a halberd the way it is? The long pole is to 1) have an extended range, and 2) to enable the weapon to be held with 2 hands, so as to make it manoeuvrable. If the power armour's strength allows the easy wielding of a heavier weapon, it can just be a particularly heavy axe, no reason to have the long stick. If the weapon's range is necessary for supposedly large enemies, it should be held at the lowest end of the weapon which is apparently feasible with the supposed added strength (the wrist section would have to do a huge amount of heavy lifting, literally). Somewhat regardless of the mythical properties of power armour, there is still no denying that strength will be limited, and fighting faster or with a heavier weapon would be possible if a weapon more suitable for the role was used. A spear for a somewhat longer weapon held in one hand, a shorter bladed weapon for chopping things one-handedly, or a polearm used with two hands.

    Yes, yes, 40k isn't real, nor always remotely realistic. But physics still apply on some level, affecting balance points, thus affecting weapon design and use. The weapon being larger and thicker than would be realistic is part of the aesthetics of the range and limitations of model production, but this is a more basic nonsensical issue. It's like giving a sniper a throwing axe instead of a rifle, or models having heavily armoured legs but an exposed torso. Unless there's a solid in-universe reason for it to make sense, well, it won't make sense. Just because you might not care about this particular issue (as I have personally largely stopped caring about characters not wearing bloody helmets), does not make it a less valid point of criticism.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 10:10:31


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


    One handed pole-arm style weapons are hardly new in 40K (even without power armour, etc..).

    Spoiler:


    Nor is the Sister even stuck in a rigid box that would physically prevent her from swining/leveraging the pole-arm in theory, unlike literally every Custodes model. Etc..





    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 10:35:07


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    Sunny Side Up wrote:
    One handed pole-arm style weapons are hardly new in 40K (even without power armour, etc..).

    Spoiler:


    Nor is the Sister even stuck in a rigid box that would physically prevent her from swining/leveraging the pole-arm in theory, unlike literally every Custodes model. Etc..





    Just because you can point to another miniature using a pole arm one handed doesn’t make it less stupid. Yes, there is nothing stopping you from swinging a polar one handed, but why would you choose to do it. The extra length below your hand becomes a hindrance not a help and you’d be better off with an axe.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 10:36:12


    Post by: grahamdbailey


    FFS, page after page around why or why not a halberd would work in 40k....
    Even for Dakka this is a load of bollix.
    Rule of cool applies, it looks awesome and adds to the range. That should be enough.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 10:41:05


    Post by: Sunny Side Up


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:


    Just because you can point to another miniature using a pole arm one handed doesn’t make it less stupid. Yes, there is nothing stopping you from swinging a polar one handed, but why would you choose to do it. The extra length below your hand becomes a hindrance not a help and you’d be better off with an axe.


    Because it's not breaking with the continuity of the last 30 years.

    Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris. But that's 40K.

    Similarly, to fit every action-movie logic, the 10 people with tactical armour, helmets and assault rifles are harmless goons that get killed off in a blink, while the one guy without a helmet and only a jagged knife is the scary part that get's a 5 minute action scene. That's why the "important" figures don't wear helmets in 40K.

    Lengthy posts about how it breaks your immersion is no different then me going on about how the Hulk transformation, weight/body mass changes, etc.. don't work as a radiation-induced change in the MCU or how the time-travel-changes in Everybody knows that, but getting hung up about it kinda missing the genre conventions.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 11:50:11


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    Sunny Side Up wrote:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:


    Just because you can point to another miniature using a pole arm one handed doesn’t make it less stupid. Yes, there is nothing stopping you from swinging a polar one handed, but why would you choose to do it. The extra length below your hand becomes a hindrance not a help and you’d be better off with an axe.


    Because it's not breaking with the continuity of the last 30 years.

    Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris. But that's 40K.

    Similarly, to fit every action-movie logic, the 10 people with tactical armour, helmets and assault rifles are harmless goons that get killed off in a blink, while the one guy without a helmet and only a jagged knife is the scary part that get's a 5 minute action scene. That's why the "important" figures don't wear helmets in 40K.

    Lengthy posts about how it breaks your immersion is no different then me going on about how the Hulk transformation, weight/body mass changes, etc.. don't work as a radiation-induced change in the MCU or how the time-travel-changes in Everybody knows that, but getting hung up about it kinda missing the genre conventions.


    Mate, I actually don’t have a problem with the one handed halberd. I’m just pointing out that some of the arguments that people are using to justify it don’t make sense. I’m only objecting to illogical arguments, not the mini itself.

    The only justification needed is, rule of cool. Rule of cool trumps every other consideration. Anyone who thinks this looks cool is welcome. Anyone who doesn’t, well their opinion isn’t wrong either.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 12:56:34


    Post by: Sarouan


    At this point, it's better to ignore anything trying to go back to this sterile debate on halberd fighting style.

    So I'll just do that.


    Mmmpi wrote:They could be power axes with 1d3 damage, but no strength buff outside of what the normal power axe gives. D2 is probably more likely though.


    Indeed, I was thinking about it afterwards. But then the repentia eviscerator are already D2 and pretty much "high strength - AP" weapons already. Wonder if D3 wouldn't make more sense in the case of celestians.

    Or maybe they'll remake the eviscerator profile as well ?

    Either way, I think it should be pertinent to keep them distinctive from each other.



    drbored wrote:Yeah, really interested in the rules for the shield as well. Sisters already get a flat 6+ invul.

    I could see it giving them a 2+/5++. Then, it would give things that boost invul to 4++ a purpose while also making these melee celestians more potent even if you don't use invul boost bubbles.

    Keep in mind that I expect the celestians to still be Toughness 3, which would help balance it all out. They'll take more wounds overall than a terminator, and likely not have more ablative wounds to resist, so a 2+/4++ on a celestian wouldn't mean nearly as much as it would on a T4, 3 wound terminator.


    alextroy wrote:I see a a very high chance of it being a Storm Shield - 4++ with a +1 to Armor Save.

    Slightly less likely is just the 4++.


    Yes, I'm leaning more towards storm shields as well.

    But honestly, it's hard to say what GW will do with the rules. I mean, we also have the Parangon Battlesuits and I already felt those would be something with high armor as well to make them different from the Penitent Engines / Mortifiers.

    In fact, what's really confusing is that these new miniatures feel like they will be fitting the same role than other existing units. And we don't even know what other new units there will be in the new codex.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 14:13:01


    Post by: Wha-Mu-077


    Christ allmighty, you people are still going?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 14:25:57


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Mate, I actually don’t have a problem with the one handed halberd. I’m just pointing out that some of the arguments that people are using to justify it don’t make sense. I’m only objecting to illogical arguments, not the mini itself.
    Ditto. I don't give two gaks if she's wielding one-handed or two-handed. She could be swinging it no-handed, using her mind, for all I care.

    It's just that some people take issue with the little things in a fantastical universe don't hold up to scrutiny, and that "But there are space ships and warp daemons so you need to accept this!" isn't a valid counter argument.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 15:09:26


    Post by: Sgt. Cortez


    Hmm. I see where the guys arguing against the halberd are coming from but is it really more immersion breaking to you than the most iconic, one-handed 40K weapon - the chainsword?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 15:58:12


    Post by: dracpanzer


    I'm looking forward to fielding the new Celestians with maces. Conversions from the old metals of course. Some different weapon options on the Palatine would be nice especialy an Inferno Pistol.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 18:08:33


    Post by: Ordana


    Sarouan wrote:

    In fact, what's really confusing is that these new miniatures feel like they will be fitting the same role than other existing units. And we don't even know what other new units there will be in the new codex.
    I suspect these new shield sisters will fill a role similar to Bladeguard Veterans. Tough models to shift (thanks to a Storm Shield) with decent CC bite to stand on objectives and hold them.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 19:21:53


    Post by: Sarouan


     Ordana wrote:
    I suspect these new shield sisters will fill a role similar to Bladeguard Veterans. Tough models to shift (thanks to a Storm Shield) with decent CC bite to stand on objectives and hold them.


    I don't know, I actually see the Parangon Battlesuits on that role. I mean, a big part of the Bladeguard Veterans' resistance is also because they have multiple wounds. I really don't see these new celestians having that.

    But then if you can fit a 10 models with storm shield resistance, they may be like the Crusaders in their golden age ?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 19:57:01


    Post by: Irbis


     alextroy wrote:
    I see a a very high chance of it being a Storm Shield - 4++ with a +1 to Armor Save.

    I wish, but equally likely is chance of them being combat shields (because these come with built in pistols, not storm shields).

     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Using halberds one handed has got nothing to do with weight. Halberds are not heavy, about 4kg max. When you use a halberd one handed what you’ve essentially got is just an axe with an impractically long handle.

    Oh, and I totally agree with HBMC about things needing to be grounded in a sense of faux reality for the more fanciful stuff to not just be ridiculous. Opinions differ, but that’s ok. I don’t really think you’re stupid because your opinion is different to mine

    Your point is still wrong because problem with using halberd one handed is the fact it's difficult to cut anything with it. This is power halberd that does cutting for user so any argument "it won't work" is just plain incorrect, and that with using it with just one bare arm, never mind power armour one.

    You two behave like people asking where the horses in front of Rhinos and Land Raiders are, because it's totally unrealistic for a wagon to move on its own. And where are the wheels and drawbar?

    Sunny Side Up wrote:
    Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris.

    If you think primaris with actual human anatomy are the bad ones (and not pre-2017 squats with gorilla arms, detached shoulders, lacking half of spine and with split pelvis) maybe you should buy glasses. Or actually look up how strong adult humans look like, you'll be surprised


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 20:18:24


    Post by: MonkeyBallistic


    Irbis, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re obviously so convinced you’re right I’ll let it go


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/18 20:43:01


    Post by: alextroy


    Sgt. Cortez wrote:
    Hmm. I see where the guys arguing against the halberd are coming from but is it really more immersion breaking to you than the most iconic, one-handed 40K weapon - the chainsword?
    That ship sailed so long ago that nobody cares any longer. I just try to not think too much about them because they are 100% Rule of Cool instead of remotely realistic. But if you can't get over chainswords, you can't embrace 40K at all because everyone and their brother seems to use some sort of chain weapon.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/19 01:19:42


    Post by: AngryAngel80


     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    ERJAK wrote:
    The problem is your point is stupid.
    Thanks for joining in.


    Isn't it nice to know the good folk here at dakka will give you that high quality, big brain assessment of your statements such as " Your point is stupid." . I find it both insightful and refreshing to get such well meaning honesty handed out in what I am sure is a very constructive way. I imagine, much like it would for me, it brought a smile to your face instantly.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     MonkeyBallistic wrote:
    Irbis, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re obviously so convinced you’re right I’ll let it go


    You can't always agree with someones truth but you can always appreciate the force with which they press it at you.

    I, for one, look forward to embracing our new horse drawn rhinos and land raiders. Them horseless buggy things never sat right with me either, the devil I say.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/19 04:27:18


    Post by: alphaecho


    Sunny Side Up wrote:


    Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris. But that's 40K.

    Similarly, to fit every action-movie logic, the 10 people with tactical armour, helmets and assault rifles are harmless goons that get killed off in a blink, while the one guy without a helmet and only a jagged knife is the scary part that get's a 5 minute action scene. That's why the "important" figures don't wear helmets in 40K.



    Shoulder pads not working in real life is why both Dredd movies have turned a Judge's shoulder pads into a form of body armour harness. What looks good on a page doesn't necessarily translate to real life.

    As for models with no helmets? I always consider that the model is a snapshot of a warrior in action. In some cases, the helmet has already taken damage and been removed and it iisn't always the case that the soldier has gone jnto battle without it.

    Works for me anyway.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/19 05:40:05


    Post by: drbored


    It'll be interesting to see how they differentiate the various melee units that we're getting.

    It's nice to be getting options that aren't just the various repentant and punished. Really, those were the only units that were melee. Arco flagellants, repentia, and penitent engines and mortifiers. Oh, other than the zephyrim. So, having more melee options that are full non-punished sisters will be nice.

    I'm sure the celestians will carry over some sort of bodyguard rule like the current celestians have. The power suits I'd expect to have higher toughness and higher strength. Carrying heavy weapons into battle isn't bad either. Then you've got the zephyrim for high ap and high number of attacks, and then the repentia that have very reliable damage. So what we're missing out of this is stuff that's high strength and high damage, or stuff that's high attack numbers but low damage.

    May not seem all that important to have all of those things, but anything that lets you build neat lists without falling back on the one or two units that can do X well (in this case, melee) is a good thing in my book, even if it's just for variety's sake, visually.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/19 09:44:37


    Post by: Togusa


    grahamdbailey wrote:
    FFS, page after page around why or why not a halberd would work in 40k....
    Even for Dakka this is a load of bollix.
    Rule of cool applies, it looks awesome and adds to the range. That should be enough.


    I wish I could exalt you 100 times.

    So, this week there will be a "big reveal" I guess. I wonder if part of it will be announcements for the next round of codexes?


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/19 10:28:34


    Post by: Sarouan


     Togusa wrote:
    grahamdbailey wrote:
    FFS, page after page around why or why not a halberd would work in 40k....
    Even for Dakka this is a load of bollix.
    Rule of cool applies, it looks awesome and adds to the range. That should be enough.


    I wish I could exalt you 100 times.

    So, this week there will be a "big reveal" I guess. I wonder if part of it will be announcements for the next round of codexes?


    They said "big model reveals" but I didn't see any preview on twitch settled for next saturday so far. Usually they tell us sunday about that.

    Wonder if it's not like "monday model reveal", an article here and there with one model previewed.

    So I expect the Adepta Sororitas will have a couple more in those.


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/23 15:17:20


    Post by: GaroRobe


    I was wondering if we'd see a new sister reveal today, but looking at the last one they said "we’ll be bringing you a new instalment every couple of week."

    Shame, but I guess it's something to look forward to


    Adepta Sororitas Codex Rumors @ 2021/04/23 16:07:18


    Post by: jake


    Sunny Side Up wrote:
    anime-proportioned Primaris.


    ??????