Not quite Boyz, not quite nobz, but better than a boy.
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Skarboyz and 'Ard Boyz have been a thing for ages in various iterations of the ork codex. Given that they're going for 40k Savage Orks (which is great, IMO, the diversity in different type of Ork forces in the lore absolutely blows the feth out of the done to death astartes and it's about time the tabletop start to reflect that) it makes sense to make them a new unit if they don't want to retire the boyz kit.
And would anyone actually want to HAVE to field their ork boyz with animal skins and savage ork snakebite style stuff?
I have no doubt they'll be basically Skarboyz, with some lower-tech special weaponry. Jesus, the stuff people will whine about...
We don’t need primaris Ork....the betta, stronga and tuffa the lad, the bigga he gets. Boy->Skarboy->Nob->Boss
Yeah theyre literally just releasing an official model for Skarboyz with the new beast snaggas. They're just called "Beast Snagga Boyz" and they'll have skarboy stats.
We don’t need primaris Ork....the betta, stronga and tuffa the lad, the bigga he gets. Boy->Skarboy->Nob->Boss
Yeah theyre literally just releasing an official model for Skarboyz with the new beast snaggas. They're just called "Beast Snagga Boyz" and they'll have skarboy stats.
Bet. We'll be losing the Skarboyz stratagem for this.
For all intents and purposes the model seen in the article is a slugga boy +1.
On the other hand, if that makes skar boyz not klan locked any more then i'd call it a win. That is of course assuming the Beast Snagga units are just normal units with a keyword akin to Speedfreaks or Flyboyz and interact with Klan rules normally.
We don’t need primaris Ork....the betta, stronga and tuffa the lad, the bigga he gets. Boy->Skarboy->Nob->Boss
Yeah theyre literally just releasing an official model for Skarboyz with the new beast snaggas. They're just called "Beast Snagga Boyz" and they'll have skarboy stats.
I think the proof in the pudding here is going to be the keywords. If they stick "Beast snaggas" into the keywords, and that precludes interaction from "non" beast snaggas, then even if they would fit the Skarboy archetype they might be too hard to include.
Of course, the Speed Freak keyword doesn't cause any problems with list building, so most likely including these not-scarboys will be non-intrusive.
This is super primaris-y. Fills a niche that already exists, but I can smell the buffed rules from here, so it's just a better choice. Bit of scale creep, to make your line boys look weedy, will probably even make nobs and meganobs look a bit small, but then go some of the way to giving primaris marines something that looks threatening because of it's relative size parity. Bigger base, too. Clearly monopose as all hell. Sad!
I'm a bit split on this but it might be a nice way for GW to introduce stat creep for Orks without making it overbearing. What do I mean by this? Regular boys don't hit hard enough against elite targets and some people were already speculating -1 AP for choppas. I'll be honest, getting 30 boys into strike range is hard but i don't think anyone was really waiting for 120 S4 AP-1 attacks. This could be a way to introduce somewhat harder hitting boys (S5, AP-1?) but with less attacks.
Not a fan of the look myself though, they look to AoS-ey for me but that might just be personal taste.
It kind of makes a little sense. Orks tend to build and develop according to the forces they face. They meet Terminators, you get MANS. They meet a Knight, you get a Stompa. They see a plane, well, you get the idea.
They run across a Primaris, it's only a matter of time before they start bulking out some Boyz. It's only a matter of time till they get some Primarch Orks out there again.
IMO, Orks are the right thing to keep adding new things to.
And, maybe I’m in a minority, but I really like the look of these dudes so far. People saying these look too much like Sigmar, Orcs in Warhammer have looked the same as 40K in the past. They updated them in Sigmar but haven’t in 40K. So this is them updating them in the same style.
Charistoph wrote: It kind of makes a little sense. Orks tend to build and develop according to the forces they face. They meet Terminators, you get MANS. They meet a Knight, you get a Stompa. They see a plane, well, you get the idea.
You sure you aren't describing the way Tyranids react to new threats?
This is super primaris-y. Fills a niche that already exists, but I can smell the buffed rules from here, so it's just a better choice. Bit of scale creep, to make your line boys look weedy, will probably even make nobs and meganobs look a bit small, but then go some of the way to giving primaris marines something that looks threatening because of it's relative size parity. Bigger base, too. Clearly monopose as all hell. Sad!
GW has shown in multiple recent kits that they are capable of providing a number of arms, heads, and accessories to keep your monopose models from looking like 10 different models over and over again.
You know as the only Snakebite player out there apparently I am super happy about these new Ork releases. The squig riders next to my Gargantuan Squiggoth and regular Squiggoths full of these new boyz is just so exciting. I did a lot of work using savage orks converted into 40k choppa boyz but it doesn't matter because these will mix in just perfectly.
Yeah, it is a bit of a Primaris Ork type deal but it has character beyond what a normal boy, Primaris Marines are just marines but better.
This is super primaris-y. Fills a niche that already exists, but I can smell the buffed rules from here, so it's just a better choice. Bit of scale creep, to make your line boys look weedy, will probably even make nobs and meganobs look a bit small, but then go some of the way to giving primaris marines something that looks threatening because of it's relative size parity. Bigger base, too. Clearly monopose as all hell. Sad!
GW has shown in multiple recent kits that they are capable of providing a number of arms, heads, and accessories to keep your monopose models from looking like 10 different models over and over again.
I had a hunch we might see 2W Ork troops during 9th Edition. Makes sense to me.
I wonder how well the torsos will be kitbashable with existing arms & heads.. Plenty of folks upscaling their firstborn marine armies with interecessor torsos, you could potentially do the same with these?
Charistoph wrote: It kind of makes a little sense. Orks tend to build and develop according to the forces they face. They meet Terminators, you get MANS. They meet a Knight, you get a Stompa. They see a plane, well, you get the idea.
You sure you aren't describing the way Tyranids react to new threats?
Yes, I'm sure. Where Tyranids see a new tech or new strategy they make a new bug to counter it. Orks just see the tech they're facing and pull out their own version of it to face it.
Maybe if we got deeper into Gork and Mork manifesting into the 40k universe, they could be like, a great power has manifested to bless the ork species into something of them possibly taking the whole galaxy eventually, you could then justify this whole "primaris orks" line of models haha
bat702 wrote: Maybe if we got deeper into Gork and Mork manifesting into the 40k universe, they could be like, a great power has manifested to bless the ork species into something of them possibly taking the whole galaxy eventually, you could then justify this whole "primaris orks" line of models haha
Knowing GW, they would probably "manifest" as $160 definitely-not-a-Daemon Prince-copy models with little to no practical use in most 2000pt and under games due to high points cost and LoW slot usage.
We don’t need primaris Ork....the betta, stronga and tuffa the lad, the bigga he gets. Boy->Skarboy->Nob->Boss
Yeah theyre literally just releasing an official model for Skarboyz with the new beast snaggas. They're just called "Beast Snagga Boyz" and they'll have skarboy stats.
Bet. We'll be losing the Skarboyz stratagem for this.
You say that like that's a bad thing.
Oh boo-hoo, the loss of a piece of cardboard in favor of actual models. IMO the game would vastly improve if 90%+ of strats could vanish.
I think it's the best we could hope for. I was actually afraid they'd replace the current Ork boyz kit and kill all possibilities of kitbashing between the Orks. An addition of a different boy that's a Skarboy or a strong feral ork (aka something that's always been in the fluff)? No problem there. And if they're stronger than old boyz, no problem, too. You still have the usual boyz for your horde or these guys for a more elite feel.
bat702 wrote: Maybe if we got deeper into Gork and Mork manifesting into the 40k universe, they could be like, a great power has manifested to bless the ork species into something of them possibly taking the whole galaxy eventually, you could then justify this whole "primaris orks" line of models haha
Knowing GW, they would probably "manifest" as $160 definitely-not-a-Daemon Prince-copy models with little to no practical use in most 2000pt and under games due to high points cost and LoW slot usage.
Would be pretty sweet maybe if the orks build like a Gorka/Morkanaught that can then come to life by a weirdboy blessing it with a psychic power, that then makes it more powerful for a turn or two, Also would be interested to see an actual model similar to the Avatar of Kayne the Eldar have.
Hmm... Reading the article would it be so unsurprising if Nob's went to W3, MANZ W4 (no invuln native still I bet) and these new boyz to W2?
I'm hyped as someone doing a deffskull savage army (My tattoos can head butt las cannons and win!) and more options will be amazing! Judging from the picture these Orkz will be on 32mm I bet.
I'd rather have had a separate kit for ard' boys with extra armour then this, but then again since my orks mostly languish nowadays in an unused state since about 3 editions i feel like i kinda don't have a horse in this race beyond old grognarding.
I had a hunch we might see 2W Ork troops during 9th Edition. Makes sense to me.
I wonder how well the torsos will be kitbashable with existing arms & heads.. Plenty of folks upscaling their firstborn marine armies with interecessor torsos, you could potentially do the same with these?
They won't be. GW has no interest in making these new orks backwards compatible with the existing boyz kit, my guess is they'll be $55 for 10.
Look at the right shoulder, there's no way you're fitting arms from the current boyz kit on there without some serious muscle resculpting and cutting.
Staffer: Sir! The fans are saying the Ork sculpts are getting too old and they want something new!
James Workshop: Alright then! Lets make some Feral Orks and give them a whole new sculpt with a uniquely themed army they can enjoy, collect, and spend some money on, Everyone wins!
Staffer: We'll get on it!
(GW studios today)
Staffrer: Sir! They didn't like it!
James Workshop: Why not? We made them big and orky, they have a whole new theme, they're bigger and meaner looking, Hell, they're riding damned squigs! What went wrong?
Staffer: Apparently they wanted more of the same, and they keep going on about primaris Orks.....
James Workshop: *flips table* thats it, there will terrible rules in the new Ork book, no more new sculpts, and open the primaris LT vault, I'll show them more of the same...Oh and screw up the release of Cursed City for good measure, everyone will suffer for this.
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Argh.
Same reason they made all that "Primars"-stuff up and didn't just release those kits as updated Marine sculpts.
They don't want to invalidate existing armies after the WHF -> AoS backlash.
It's a simple enough fluff-tweak that gives people another decade or two with their "legacy"-miniatures, if they so choose.
Staffer: Sir! The fans are saying the Ork sculpts are getting too old and they want something new!
Very few ork players actually think that. They want plastic models for metal/finecast kits and stuff their codex lacks. Not a new line of models.
I was more channeling the Hobby at large and how GW would read it even if it was the wrong read to begin with. Also it was my poor attempt at comedy and my commentary at the fact that GW can never win no matter what they do and when they get close they manage to screw it up on their own end.
Staffer: Sir! The fans are saying the Ork sculpts are getting too old and they want something new!
Very few ork players actually think that. They want plastic models for metal/finecast kits and stuff their codex lacks. Not a new line of models.
I was more channeling the Hobby at large and how GW would read it even if it was the wrong read to begin with. Also it was my poor attempt at comedy and my commentary at the fact that GW can never win no matter what they do and when they get close they manage to screw it up on their own end.
and here i thought the belakor update was regarded modelwise atleast, as pretty universally good to great?
Staffer: Sir! The fans are saying the Ork sculpts are getting too old and they want something new!
Very few ork players actually think that. They want plastic models for metal/finecast kits and stuff their codex lacks. Not a new line of models.
I was more channeling the Hobby at large and how GW would read it even if it was the wrong read to begin with. Also it was my poor attempt at comedy and my commentary at the fact that GW can never win no matter what they do and when they get close they manage to screw it up on their own end.
and here i thought the belakor update was regarded modelwise atleast, as pretty universally good to great?
Except they already sold out....and they put in the wrong assembly instructions....and theres no 40k rules included.....so no winning
and here i thought the belakor update was regarded modelwise atleast, as pretty universally good to great?
'Boringly generic demon' gets an efficient, but uninspired update to 'larger boringly generic demon'.
How is what is essentially the first daemon prince...the most boring and generic?
Probably because he's just kind of a gray demon with a sword? If you went around and asked people 'draw a demon' you'd probably get an average result pretty close to belakor.
and here i thought the belakor update was regarded modelwise atleast, as pretty universally good to great?
'Boringly generic demon' gets an efficient, but uninspired update to 'larger boringly generic demon'.
How is what is essentially the first daemon prince...the most boring and generic?
Well, I've never been inspired to spend a dime on the previous model. I just find it.... meh. The new model at least looks damned cool.
I'm 100% more likely to at least consider using models I like.
Probably because he's just kind of a gray demon with a sword? If you went around and asked people 'draw a demon' you'd probably get an average result pretty close to belakor.
Exactly.
He's still just a gray demon with a sword, but now with a much cooler sculpt.
I don't really think this is a primaris parallel. this is not a complete overhaul of the Ork army replacing all units with new units that have a slightly better stat line.
its just a few more units for Orks. unless you now something
they also aren't shoe horning some new storyline in to justify the model releases.
what concerns me, seeing this, is that CSM won't go to 2W across the board but will get a new 2W veteran unit
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Argh.
Same reason they made all that "Primars"-stuff up and didn't just release those kits as updated Marine sculpts.
They don't want to invalidate existing armies after the WHF -> AoS backlash.
It's a simple enough fluff-tweak that gives people another decade or two with their "legacy"-miniatures, if they so choose.
Nah, its part of a long term operating paradigm. If Primaris were just a new sculpt for tactical marines then GW would have to include in the kit parts for a whole bunch of special and heavy weapon options, etc. to mirror the tactical marines kit - if they didn't then they would just feed a secondary market of 3d printed and resin cast bits sellers. Instead they release it as a new kit for a new unit with new fluff and less options. Then they follow it up with a half dozen other kits for very similar units each toting their own distinct weapon system, so players have to buy another half dozen boxes to get a mix of weapon types and capabilities in their army. Then, in a few years as sales start to taper off they re-release the same kits but with an extra sprue with a powerfist for the sergeant or a close combat weapon loadout, etc. so players have to pick up a few more boxes worth in order to round out their units with options. Rinse/repeat ad nauseum every few years until these units all possess as many weapon options as a tactical marine squad which has conveniently and quietly been removed from sale some years prior and is no longer available. Then a completely recut kit of intercessors, called Tactical Intercessors, is released covering all the previous options covered by the tac. marines and intercessors kits, plus some additional new options, tactical marines are rendered obsolete but its okay because you can just field them as tactical intercessors now if you haven't already given up on firstborn and moved on to the new shinyness. Once again existing players go out to buy a few more boxes to round out their collections, etc. rinse repeat with other mainline units, etc.
GW can stand to make a lot more in sales over a decade by selling people the same kits over and over again by incrementallEvery time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good".y upgrading those kits with some additional content every so many years for the cost of very minimal additional design and production overhead vs. just doing 1:1 replacements of existing units in one go. 1:1 replacements have their own built-in inefficiencies from a sales/profit standpoint, every time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good". The only time that 1:1 replacement makes sense really seems to be for kits that weren't already in plastic (Drukhari Incubi, Aeldari Howling Banshees, etc.) or the existing plastic sculpts were aged and dated enough to no longer fit modern "standards" (Necron Warriors - Boyz may prove themselves in time to fall in this category after all).
In order to maximize potential return on investment in the production of new kits there needs to be an incentive to existing customers that own the obsolete product to recapitalize their collection, the best way to do that is to offer them a value proposition that basically says "Even though you already own 6 boxes worth of this unit, buying 3 more boxes will give you the ability to switch outargear your bolt rifles in each squad with promethium-throwers or plasmatic arc-rifles". If they can then get you to make that same decision a half-dozen more times as they round out the weapon options, then they have essentially sold you 27 boxes of Intercessors This is a potentially extreme example, but you get the point - how many people out there already owned 3-6 units of Intercessors and went out to buy 2+ boxes of Assault Intercessors, and are in line to buy 2+ boxes of Heavy Intercessors? If they had released all that as part of one kit (well... maybe not the Heavy Intercessors) from the get-go you would have had people buying only a few boxes of the kit and magnetizing parts so they could hot-swap between options instead of building to the loadout. (plus all the Incursors, Reivers, Infiltrators, etc.) instead of the 6 boxes of embiggened tactical marines that you might have otherwise ended up buying to modernize your existing army.
and here i thought the belakor update was regarded modelwise atleast, as pretty universally good to great?
'Boringly generic demon' gets an efficient, but uninspired update to 'larger boringly generic demon'.
How is what is essentially the first daemon prince...the most boring and generic?
Probably because he's just kind of a gray demon with a sword? If you went around and asked people 'draw a demon' you'd probably get an average result pretty close to belakor.
Exactly this.
Compare Belakor to the amazing sculpts of Dexcessa and Synessa; Belakor is dull as ditchwater...with chains, lots of chains to make him kewl.
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Argh.
Same reason they made all that "Primars"-stuff up and didn't just release those kits as updated Marine sculpts.
They don't want to invalidate existing armies after the WHF -> AoS backlash.
It's a simple enough fluff-tweak that gives people another decade or two with their "legacy"-miniatures, if they so choose.
Nah, its part of a long term operating paradigm. If Primaris were just a new sculpt for tactical marines then GW would have to include in the kit parts for a whole bunch of special and heavy weapon options, etc. to mirror the tactical marines kit - if they didn't then they would just feed a secondary market of 3d printed and resin cast bits sellers. Instead they release it as a new kit for a new unit with new fluff and less options. Then they follow it up with a half dozen other kits for very similar units each toting their own distinct weapon system, so players have to buy another half dozen boxes to get a mix of weapon types and capabilities in their army. Then, in a few years as sales start to taper off they re-release the same kits but with an extra sprue with a powerfist for the sergeant or a close combat weapon loadout, etc. so players have to pick up a few more boxes worth in order to round out their units with options. Rinse/repeat ad nauseum every few years until these units all possess as many weapon options as a tactical marine squad which has conveniently and quietly been removed from sale some years prior and is no longer available. Then a completely recut kit of intercessors, called Tactical Intercessors, is released covering all the previous options covered by the tac. marines and intercessors kits, plus some additional new options, tactical marines are rendered obsolete but its okay because you can just field them as tactical intercessors now if you haven't already given up on firstborn and moved on to the new shinyness. Once again existing players go out to buy a few more boxes to round out their collections, etc. rinse repeat with other mainline units, etc.
GW can stand to make a lot more in sales over a decade by selling people the same kits over and over again by incrementallEvery time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good".y upgrading those kits with some additional content every so many years for the cost of very minimal additional design and production overhead vs. just doing 1:1 replacements of existing units in one go. 1:1 replacements have their own built-in inefficiencies from a sales/profit standpoint, every time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good". The only time that 1:1 replacement makes sense really seems to be for kits that weren't already in plastic (Drukhari Incubi, Aeldari Howling Banshees, etc.) or the existing plastic sculpts were aged and dated enough to no longer fit modern "standards" (Necron Warriors - Boyz may prove themselves in time to fall in this category after all).
In order to maximize potential return on investment in the production of new kits there needs to be an incentive to existing customers that own the obsolete product to recapitalize their collection, the best way to do that is to offer them a value proposition that basically says "Even though you already own 6 boxes worth of this unit, buying 3 more boxes will give you the ability to switch outargear your bolt rifles in each squad with promethium-throwers or plasmatic arc-rifles". If they can then get you to make that same decision a half-dozen more times as they round out the weapon options, then they have essentially sold you 27 boxes of Intercessors This is a potentially extreme example, but you get the point - how many people out there already owned 3-6 units of Intercessors and went out to buy 2+ boxes of Assault Intercessors, and are in line to buy 2+ boxes of Heavy Intercessors? If they had released all that as part of one kit (well... maybe not the Heavy Intercessors) from the get-go you would have had people buying only a few boxes of the kit and magnetizing parts so they could hot-swap between options instead of building to the loadout. (plus all the Incursors, Reivers, Infiltrators, etc.) instead of the 6 boxes of embiggened tactical marines that you might have otherwise ended up buying to modernize your existing army.
Or, you know, I can just order bitz - official GW on EBay, or 3rd party, or 3d print what I need - & magnetize rather than buying entire kits.
mrFickle wrote:I don't really think this is a primaris parallel. this is not a complete overhaul of the Ork army replacing all units with new units that have a slightly better stat line.
its just a few more units for Orks. unless you now something
they also aren't shoe horning some new storyline in to justify the model releases.
what concerns me, seeing this, is that CSM won't go to 2W across the board but will get a new 2W veteran unit
CSM already have veteran units, they're called Chosen and Cult Marines, and we already know they're going to 2W. They just need new models (yes, I know we already have new Plague Marines and Rubrics).
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote: CSM got their new models and GW already stated they would go to W2.
I wonder more about what Chaos will lose than what they'll gain...
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Argh.
Same reason they made all that "Primars"-stuff up and didn't just release those kits as updated Marine sculpts.
They don't want to invalidate existing armies after the WHF -> AoS backlash.
It's a simple enough fluff-tweak that gives people another decade or two with their "legacy"-miniatures, if they so choose.
Nah, its part of a long term operating paradigm. If Primaris were just a new sculpt for tactical marines then GW would have to include in the kit parts for a whole bunch of special and heavy weapon options, etc. to mirror the tactical marines kit - if they didn't then they would just feed a secondary market of 3d printed and resin cast bits sellers. Instead they release it as a new kit for a new unit with new fluff and less options. Then they follow it up with a half dozen other kits for very similar units each toting their own distinct weapon system, so players have to buy another half dozen boxes to get a mix of weapon types and capabilities in their army. Then, in a few years as sales start to taper off they re-release the same kits but with an extra sprue with a powerfist for the sergeant or a close combat weapon loadout, etc. so players have to pick up a few more boxes worth in order to round out their units with options. Rinse/repeat ad nauseum every few years until these units all possess as many weapon options as a tactical marine squad which has conveniently and quietly been removed from sale some years prior and is no longer available. Then a completely recut kit of intercessors, called Tactical Intercessors, is released covering all the previous options covered by the tac. marines and intercessors kits, plus some additional new options, tactical marines are rendered obsolete but its okay because you can just field them as tactical intercessors now if you haven't already given up on firstborn and moved on to the new shinyness. Once again existing players go out to buy a few more boxes to round out their collections, etc. rinse repeat with other mainline units, etc.
GW can stand to make a lot more in sales over a decade by selling people the same kits over and over again by incrementallEvery time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good".y upgrading those kits with some additional content every so many years for the cost of very minimal additional design and production overhead vs. just doing 1:1 replacements of existing units in one go. 1:1 replacements have their own built-in inefficiencies from a sales/profit standpoint, every time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good". The only time that 1:1 replacement makes sense really seems to be for kits that weren't already in plastic (Drukhari Incubi, Aeldari Howling Banshees, etc.) or the existing plastic sculpts were aged and dated enough to no longer fit modern "standards" (Necron Warriors - Boyz may prove themselves in time to fall in this category after all).
In order to maximize potential return on investment in the production of new kits there needs to be an incentive to existing customers that own the obsolete product to recapitalize their collection, the best way to do that is to offer them a value proposition that basically says "Even though you already own 6 boxes worth of this unit, buying 3 more boxes will give you the ability to switch outargear your bolt rifles in each squad with promethium-throwers or plasmatic arc-rifles". If they can then get you to make that same decision a half-dozen more times as they round out the weapon options, then they have essentially sold you 27 boxes of Intercessors This is a potentially extreme example, but you get the point - how many people out there already owned 3-6 units of Intercessors and went out to buy 2+ boxes of Assault Intercessors, and are in line to buy 2+ boxes of Heavy Intercessors? If they had released all that as part of one kit (well... maybe not the Heavy Intercessors) from the get-go you would have had people buying only a few boxes of the kit and magnetizing parts so they could hot-swap between options instead of building to the loadout. (plus all the Incursors, Reivers, Infiltrators, etc.) instead of the 6 boxes of embiggened tactical marines that you might have otherwise ended up buying to modernize your existing army.
Or, you know, I can just order bitz - official GW on EBay, or 3rd party, or 3d print what I need - & magnetize rather than buying entire kits.
The bits industry has mostly dried up and died out, and given GWs new approach to monopose sculpts, etc. I'm guessing that you're not likely to find much of what you're looking for to enable that. Besides that, is it even possible to magnetize a kit of regular intercessors to become assault intercessors (let alone heavy intercessors)? Reivers/Incursors/Infiltrators seem to be off the table, as do Hellblasters. Hows that working out for you?
mrFickle wrote:I don't really think this is a primaris parallel. this is not a complete overhaul of the Ork army replacing all units with new units that have a slightly better stat line.
its just a few more units for Orks. unless you now something
they also aren't shoe horning some new storyline in to justify the model releases.
what concerns me, seeing this, is that CSM won't go to 2W across the board but will get a new 2W veteran unit
CSM already have veteran units, they're called Chosen and Cult Marines, and we already know they're going to 2W. They just need new models (yes, I know we already have new Plague Marines and Rubrics).
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote: CSM got their new models and GW already stated they would go to W2.
I wonder more about what Chaos will lose than what they'll gain...
Or, you know, I can just order bitz - official GW on EBay, or 3rd party, or 3d print what I need - & magnetize rather than buying entire kits.
The bits industry has mostly dried up and died out, and given GWs new approach to monopose sculpts, etc. I'm guessing that you're not likely to find much of what you're looking for to enable that. Besides that, is it even possible to magnetize a kit of regular intercessors to become assault intercessors (let alone heavy intercessors)? Reivers/Incursors/Infiltrators seem to be off the table, as do Hellblasters. Hows that working out for you?
I guarantee you that I can find anything I desire. Or at least a file for it.
I also guarantee you that I can magnetize virtually anything as I actually have modeling skills.
(now of course turning an Intercessor into a Heavy Intercessor isn't practical as they're completely different armor types - that be the same as turning a Tac marine into a Terminator - I.E. not happening)
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Argh.
Same reason they made all that "Primars"-stuff up and didn't just release those kits as updated Marine sculpts.
They don't want to invalidate existing armies after the WHF -> AoS backlash.
It's a simple enough fluff-tweak that gives people another decade or two with their "legacy"-miniatures, if they so choose.
Nah, its part of a long term operating paradigm. If Primaris were just a new sculpt for tactical marines then GW would have to include in the kit parts for a whole bunch of special and heavy weapon options, etc. to mirror the tactical marines kit - if they didn't then they would just feed a secondary market of 3d printed and resin cast bits sellers. Instead they release it as a new kit for a new unit with new fluff and less options. Then they follow it up with a half dozen other kits for very similar units each toting their own distinct weapon system, so players have to buy another half dozen boxes to get a mix of weapon types and capabilities in their army. Then, in a few years as sales start to taper off they re-release the same kits but with an extra sprue with a powerfist for the sergeant or a close combat weapon loadout, etc. so players have to pick up a few more boxes worth in order to round out their units with options. Rinse/repeat ad nauseum every few years until these units all possess as many weapon options as a tactical marine squad which has conveniently and quietly been removed from sale some years prior and is no longer available. Then a completely recut kit of intercessors, called Tactical Intercessors, is released covering all the previous options covered by the tac. marines and intercessors kits, plus some additional new options, tactical marines are rendered obsolete but its okay because you can just field them as tactical intercessors now if you haven't already given up on firstborn and moved on to the new shinyness. Once again existing players go out to buy a few more boxes to round out their collections, etc. rinse repeat with other mainline units, etc.
GW can stand to make a lot more in sales over a decade by selling people the same kits over and over again by incrementallEvery time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good".y upgrading those kits with some additional content every so many years for the cost of very minimal additional design and production overhead vs. just doing 1:1 replacements of existing units in one go. 1:1 replacements have their own built-in inefficiencies from a sales/profit standpoint, every time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good". The only time that 1:1 replacement makes sense really seems to be for kits that weren't already in plastic (Drukhari Incubi, Aeldari Howling Banshees, etc.) or the existing plastic sculpts were aged and dated enough to no longer fit modern "standards" (Necron Warriors - Boyz may prove themselves in time to fall in this category after all).
In order to maximize potential return on investment in the production of new kits there needs to be an incentive to existing customers that own the obsolete product to recapitalize their collection, the best way to do that is to offer them a value proposition that basically says "Even though you already own 6 boxes worth of this unit, buying 3 more boxes will give you the ability to switch outargear your bolt rifles in each squad with promethium-throwers or plasmatic arc-rifles". If they can then get you to make that same decision a half-dozen more times as they round out the weapon options, then they have essentially sold you 27 boxes of Intercessors This is a potentially extreme example, but you get the point - how many people out there already owned 3-6 units of Intercessors and went out to buy 2+ boxes of Assault Intercessors, and are in line to buy 2+ boxes of Heavy Intercessors? If they had released all that as part of one kit (well... maybe not the Heavy Intercessors) from the get-go you would have had people buying only a few boxes of the kit and magnetizing parts so they could hot-swap between options instead of building to the loadout. (plus all the Incursors, Reivers, Infiltrators, etc.) instead of the 6 boxes of embiggened tactical marines that you might have otherwise ended up buying to modernize your existing army.
Or, you know, I can just order bitz - official GW on EBay, or 3rd party, or 3d print what I need - & magnetize rather than buying entire kits.
The bits industry has mostly dried up and died out, and given GWs new approach to monopose sculpts, etc. I'm guessing that you're not likely to find much of what you're looking for to enable that. Besides that, is it even possible to magnetize a kit of regular intercessors to become assault intercessors (let alone heavy intercessors)? Reivers/Incursors/Infiltrators seem to be off the table, as do Hellblasters. Hows that working out for you?
I guarantee you that I can find anything I desire. Or at least a file for it.
I also guarantee you that I can magnetize virtually anything as I actually have modeling skills.
(now of course turning an Intercessor into a Heavy Intercessor isn't practical as they're completely different armor types - that be the same as turning a Tac marine into a Terminator - I.E. not happening)
The bits industry has mostly dried up and died out, and given GWs new approach to monopose sculpts, etc. I'm guessing that you're not likely to find much of what you're looking for to enable that. Besides that, is it even possible to magnetize a kit of regular intercessors to become assault intercessors (let alone heavy intercessors)? Reivers/Incursors/Infiltrators seem to be off the table, as do Hellblasters. Hows that working out for you?
On the contrary with 3D printing bitz have never been so ubiquitous.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
*looks at Plague Marines datasheet. Shudders *
What is the hold up on this?!?!
the hold up is that the new plauge marines datasheet is written in a very odd manner, but it basically says you can have anything thats in the box, but only in the quantities that they come in the box. so, up to one plague knife, up to one of butobic axe, etc.
the net effect is no matter what you build form the box, it will be a legal squad build (and in the old plague marine box, it was possible to build them into a illegal configuration if you werent paying attention or didnt know better, so this something of an improvement), BUT you cant specialise the squad towards any of those weapon options because you can only have one of a given weapons option, like you could with the old plague marine sheets, which has annoyed people who went out and bought lots of boxes so they can have a squad all armed with, say bubotic axes, or flails of corruption.
I'm personally upset about this. Why not just release a redesign? Why for all intents an purposes design a Slugga Boy +1.
We have Nobz for that? We have Skarboyz for that?
Argh.
Same reason they made all that "Primars"-stuff up and didn't just release those kits as updated Marine sculpts.
They don't want to invalidate existing armies after the WHF -> AoS backlash.
It's a simple enough fluff-tweak that gives people another decade or two with their "legacy"-miniatures, if they so choose.
Nah, its part of a long term operating paradigm. If Primaris were just a new sculpt for tactical marines then GW would have to include in the kit parts for a whole bunch of special and heavy weapon options, etc. to mirror the tactical marines kit - if they didn't then they would just feed a secondary market of 3d printed and resin cast bits sellers. Instead they release it as a new kit for a new unit with new fluff and less options. Then they follow it up with a half dozen other kits for very similar units each toting their own distinct weapon system, so players have to buy another half dozen boxes to get a mix of weapon types and capabilities in their army. Then, in a few years as sales start to taper off they re-release the same kits but with an extra sprue with a powerfist for the sergeant or a close combat weapon loadout, etc. so players have to pick up a few more boxes worth in order to round out their units with options. Rinse/repeat ad nauseum every few years until these units all possess as many weapon options as a tactical marine squad which has conveniently and quietly been removed from sale some years prior and is no longer available. Then a completely recut kit of intercessors, called Tactical Intercessors, is released covering all the previous options covered by the tac. marines and intercessors kits, plus some additional new options, tactical marines are rendered obsolete but its okay because you can just field them as tactical intercessors now if you haven't already given up on firstborn and moved on to the new shinyness. Once again existing players go out to buy a few more boxes to round out their collections, etc. rinse repeat with other mainline units, etc.
GW can stand to make a lot more in sales over a decade by selling people the same kits over and over again by incrementallEvery time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good".y upgrading those kits with some additional content every so many years for the cost of very minimal additional design and production overhead vs. just doing 1:1 replacements of existing units in one go. 1:1 replacements have their own built-in inefficiencies from a sales/profit standpoint, every time theres a wholesale re-issue of asn existing kit you lose a fraction of your potential sales to established player and collectors saying "no thanks, already got mine, I'm good". The only time that 1:1 replacement makes sense really seems to be for kits that weren't already in plastic (Drukhari Incubi, Aeldari Howling Banshees, etc.) or the existing plastic sculpts were aged and dated enough to no longer fit modern "standards" (Necron Warriors - Boyz may prove themselves in time to fall in this category after all).
In order to maximize potential return on investment in the production of new kits there needs to be an incentive to existing customers that own the obsolete product to recapitalize their collection, the best way to do that is to offer them a value proposition that basically says "Even though you already own 6 boxes worth of this unit, buying 3 more boxes will give you the ability to switch outargear your bolt rifles in each squad with promethium-throwers or plasmatic arc-rifles". If they can then get you to make that same decision a half-dozen more times as they round out the weapon options, then they have essentially sold you 27 boxes of Intercessors This is a potentially extreme example, but you get the point - how many people out there already owned 3-6 units of Intercessors and went out to buy 2+ boxes of Assault Intercessors, and are in line to buy 2+ boxes of Heavy Intercessors? If they had released all that as part of one kit (well... maybe not the Heavy Intercessors) from the get-go you would have had people buying only a few boxes of the kit and magnetizing parts so they could hot-swap between options instead of building to the loadout. (plus all the Incursors, Reivers, Infiltrators, etc.) instead of the 6 boxes of embiggened tactical marines that you might have otherwise ended up buying to modernize your existing army.
Or, you know, I can just order bitz - official GW on EBay, or 3rd party, or 3d print what I need - & magnetize rather than buying entire kits.
The bits industry has mostly dried up and died out, and given GWs new approach to monopose sculpts, etc. I'm guessing that you're not likely to find much of what you're looking for to enable that. Besides that, is it even possible to magnetize a kit of regular intercessors to become assault intercessors (let alone heavy intercessors)? Reivers/Incursors/Infiltrators seem to be off the table, as do Hellblasters. Hows that working out for you?
I guarantee you that I can find anything I desire. Or at least a file for it.
I also guarantee you that I can magnetize virtually anything as I actually have modeling skills.
(now of course turning an Intercessor into a Heavy Intercessor isn't practical as they're completely different armor types - that be the same as turning a Tac marine into a Terminator - I.E. not happening)
So it's working out just fine for me.
So... have you magnetized any of those things? or are you just being a pretentious know-it-all? I'm seeing the snark of an internet smart-guy who thinks he has everything figured out, but I'm not seeing anything to actually back it up - so proof in the pudding: did you magnetize your intercessors (or whatever kit is relevant to your army if not Space Marines)? Or are you going to end up having to buy additional minis because you've already assembled and glued everything together like a rube without modelling skills because you, like everyone else, didn't have the foresight to anticipate the release of an updated kit?
Its hard to know to magnetize all your gak when you don't know that theres a reason to do so(because that reason is still years in the future). Everyone I know who magnetized their intercessors did so to swap between three types of bolt rifle, which is totally useless if you're trying to create compatibility with assault intercessors as the points you would need to magnetize for that compatibility are entirely different (and no amount of modeling skills is going to change that, you would basically have to disassemble your minis at that point to enable full arm swaps). Likewise, everyone who I've seen magnetize their assault intercessors made no accommodations for the potential of a future "Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs" kit, either because they haven't thought that far ahead or because they've acknowledged the futility of trying to enable compatibility with a part that doesn't exist yet. Maybe not so bad if you haven't painted your minis yet and don't mind pulling them apart to recut and remagnetize things to work, but thats not really who GW is lookign to milk in this scenario.
Is any new model at this point going to get this topic brought up everytime? Do we wanna try and get Primaris Eldar out of the way already ahead of time?
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Is any new model at this point going to get this topic brought up everytime? Do we wanna try and get Primaris Eldar out of the way already ahead of time?
I don't think you're going to see Primaris Eldar, no need - the majority of the range is still metal/finecast era, only the guardian kit really poses a challenge here, but they (like Necron Warriors) are old enough that you can rerelease them with a whole new sculpt and some additional weapon options and they will still sell like delicious delicious hotcakes.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Is any new model at this point going to get this topic brought up everytime? Do we wanna try and get Primaris Eldar out of the way already ahead of time?
I don't think you're going to see Primaris Eldar, no need - the majority of the range is still metal/finecast era, only the guardian kit really poses a challenge here, but they (like Necron Warriors) are old enough that you can rerelease them with a whole new sculpt and some additional weapon options and they will still sell like delicious delicious hotcakes.
But that's just it. There's never a need for anything to be Primaris'd. But that's exactly why we'll see it.
Granted, I haven’t bought the new codex but destroyers certainly look the part.
I, for one, look forward to the Primarization of Tau (everyone gets a battle suit!) and certainly Tyranids.
The new Destroyers aren't "replacing" any old models with a "newer bigger betterer" one. They're just a new unit/s. The only one that sorta works for that is the Heavy Destroyer, but that's also one that you can just use your old models for I think.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Is any new model at this point going to get this topic brought up everytime? Do we wanna try and get Primaris Eldar out of the way already ahead of time?
You mad bro if you think we are going to see ANY eldar. We know better
At this point most fans would happily take primeldars if that means getting new models..
What Do You Mean, Not All Beast Snaggas Ride Squigs wrote:The Beast Snaggas might be well known for riding into battle on the backs of various squig species, but some delight in bringing their targets down on their own two feet. Banding together into large mobs of Beast Snagga Boyz, these ferocious fighters can often be found crashing into the monsters brought down by their stikka-lobbing comrades and hacking their tough hides to pieces.
A (relatively short) lifetime of hunting huge, dangerous beasts has made these Orks particularly large and strong in comparison with regular Boyz. While they’re not quite as durable as a Nob, they can certainly swing their choppas just as hard, which makes them especially prone to lording it over the Boyz they charge alongside.
Gir Spirit Bane wrote: Hmm... Reading the article would it be so unsurprising if Nob's went to W3, MANZ W4 (no invuln native still I bet) and these new boyz to W2?
I'm hyped as someone doing a deffskull savage army (My tattoos can head butt las cannons and win!) and more options will be amazing! Judging from the picture these Orkz will be on 32mm I bet.
Wait? What? How does "not as durable as a Nob" translate into 2 Wound Beast Snagga Boyz?
I figure defensively, the new Ork upgrade will be one of the following:
5+ Save
6+ Invulnerable Save
Toughness 5
Anything more than this and they are trodding on the ground they gave to the truly durable factions like Marines, Death Guard, and Necrons.
What Do You Mean, Not All Beast Snaggas Ride Squigs wrote:The Beast Snaggas might be well known for riding into battle on the backs of various squig species, but some delight in bringing their targets down on their own two feet. Banding together into large mobs of Beast Snagga Boyz, these ferocious fighters can often be found crashing into the monsters brought down by their stikka-lobbing comrades and hacking their tough hides to pieces.
A (relatively short) lifetime of hunting huge, dangerous beasts has made these Orks particularly large and strong in comparison with regular Boyz. While they’re not quite as durable as a Nob, they can certainly swing their choppas just as hard, which makes them especially prone to lording it over the Boyz they charge alongside.
Gir Spirit Bane wrote: Hmm... Reading the article would it be so unsurprising if Nob's went to W3, MANZ W4 (no invuln native still I bet) and these new boyz to W2?
I'm hyped as someone doing a deffskull savage army (My tattoos can head butt las cannons and win!) and more options will be amazing! Judging from the picture these Orkz will be on 32mm I bet.
Wait? What? How does "not as durable as a Nob" translate into 2 Wound Beast Snagga Boyz?
I figure defensively, the new Ork upgrade will be one of the following:
5+ Save
6+ Invulnerable Save
Toughness 5
Anything more than this and they are trodding on the ground they gave to the truly durable factions like Marines, Death Guard, and Necrons.
I mean, high wounds low save is a fairly unique statline right? I don't think there's many (if any) models that follow that same concept.
Eonfuzz wrote: I mean, high wounds low save is a fairly unique statline right? I don't think there's many (if any) models that follow that same concept.
Chaos Spawn, Ogryns, Hellions, Drukhari beasts, most "medium" Tyranids (Lictors, Warriors, Raveners, ), all Swarms. To name a few...
Eonfuzz wrote: I mean, high wounds low save is a fairly unique statline right? I don't think there's many (if any) models that follow that same concept.
Chaos Spawn, Ogryns, Hellions, Drukhari beasts, most "medium" Tyranids (Lictors, Warriors, Raveners, ), all Swarms. To name a few...
Are Warriors really swarms? I don't think I've seen them used as such before.
Admittedly my experience in 40k is a handful of tournaments and locals against marines, so I don't know how good or interesting those units are.
New ork sculpts are meh at best. Boar boys should be easy stand-ins unless GW do their magic IP dance and make beastsnaggas somehow difficult to convert, such as needing a snot or grot passenger or some odd weapon the boar boyz didn’t carry.
GW shenanigans are in such bad faith. Evil mean spirited money grabbers suck the enthusiasm from older hobbyists especially. Just gets so tiresome with the fanbois saying yeay and the people who have been around to see such bad faith in action for so many years saying nay.
Meanwhile it is obvious that GW is acting in bad faith by the divisiveness they cause. Most people blame the hobbyists who complain but I blame GW money grabbers.
They are definitely 2 wounds with a 2++ and in cover with invisibility. Whatever happens with these orks, the money grabbers at GW have definitely benn primaricized... yuck.
Eonfuzz wrote: That kind of thinking is how marines think a 3+ save isn't "good"
If you're never taking your 3+ save, then it's not really all that good.
That's what I miss about the AP system from 3rd-7th. A 3+ save meant a 3+ save.
Really? In 7th I had the feeling, a 3+ is usually a 4+ or nothing because of cover and AP2 everywhere. And a 4+/5+/6+ usually didn't exist because every weapon was at least Ap 4. Since 8th I'm taking much more actual armor saves than before (admittedly that also has to do with changes to cover).
Just like in video games when lazy people started calling any moderately hard game "the Dark Souls of [game type]" I feel like the wargaming community is going to latch onto "the primaris of [faction]" as a description.
New Ork? It's the primaris of orks
New Tau? It's the primaris of Tau
New plastic thunderhawk? It's the primaris of thunderhawks
Eonfuzz wrote: That kind of thinking is how marines think a 3+ save isn't "good"
If you're never taking your 3+ save, then it's not really all that good.
That's what I miss about the AP system from 3rd-7th. A 3+ save meant a 3+ save.
Really? In 7th I had the feeling, a 3+ is usually a 4+ or nothing because of cover and AP2 everywhere. And a 4+/5+/6+ usually didn't exist because every weapon was at least Ap 4. Since 8th I'm taking much more actual armor saves than before (admittedly that also has to do with changes to cover).
This. Now a 3+ save is much stronger than it used to be. And not everyone plays SM which can fire litterally anything with extremely high AP.
ScarletRose wrote: Just like in video games when lazy people started calling any moderately hard game "the Dark Souls of [game type]" I feel like the wargaming community is going to latch onto "the primaris of [faction]" as a description.
New Ork? It's the primaris of orks
New Tau? It's the primaris of Tau
New plastic thunderhawk? It's the primaris of thunderhawks
Sorta Kinda?
Was the unit asspulled out of new lore? Check
Is the new name something similar to [adjective] [noun]? Check
Is the new unit [existing unit] +1? Check
Is the new unit slightly larger than [existing unit]? Check
Does the new unit have lack of options in its kit and require you to buy a slightly different, but similar sprue? Yet to see
"While they’re not quite as durable as a Nob, they can certainly swing their choppas just as hard"
Meaning 1 wound, T4, S5.
"by necessity Beast Snagga Doks are some of the most ‘creative’ around"
Meaning lots of upgrades - I'm guessing squig parts and cybork. Could this be the long-anticipated return of gyrostabilised monowheels?
"it can be a good laugh seeing the Beast Snagga Boyz trying to harpoon giant tanks"
I hope this means some sort of boarding action for anti-tank. The idea of harpooning a tank, to my mind, implies having a big thing to mount a tank-harpoon onto. Please oh please oh please let it be a plastic squiggoth kit!!!
I expect thise to be expensive (money-wise), in mobs of 5-15, with several cybork or squig-bitz options for the unit, T4, S5, 1 wound.
I mean, high wounds low save is a fairly unique statline right? I don't think there's many (if any) models that follow that same concept.
hard pass. With how much Multi-dmg weaponry that is currently laying about I do not want ork boyz going to W2. Why? Simple. GW has almost never correctly priced an Ork Buff. A Space Marine tactical gained a host of buffs between 7th and 9th the biggest ones being the extra shot at max range, the extra attack in the 1st round, AP on their weapons depending on turn and the extra wound. All of their buffs combined they priced Tacticals at +3pts. In GW's estimations all of those incredible buffs come out to +3pts. Orkz have upgraded from +1 attack and +1 strength on the charge to just being S4 all the time, they lost movement and gained DDD(useless) and ere we go (good). All of those buffs they have priced at...2pts. If orkz gained a 2nd wound I will guarantee they increase the current price of boyz by at least 2 more points. And at 10ppm ork boyz would effectively be useless, and no offense but a 3+ save is generally worth significantly more than a 6+ save.
I figure defensively, the new Ork upgrade will be one of the following:
5+ Save
6+ Invulnerable Save
Toughness 5
Anything more than this and they are trodding on the ground they gave to the truly durable factions like Marines, Death Guard, and Necrons.
At 5+ save they take the role (sadly) of Eavy Armor Ard boyz who used to be 4+ save at S5 they are also taking the role of "Skar" boyz. I highly doubt they get a 6+ invuln as well as T5 but even if they did they would be priced terribly, honestly at that point they would probably try to jack the price up to 10-11pts per model.
A nob was better than a tactical Space Marine in CC because it hit harder and had more wounds at a 4+ save. Historically even the Nob in a boyz mob had 4+ armor even when his boyz only had 6+. Now...not so much. The Nobz need to go to 3 wounds just in order to keep up with the ridiculous power creep from GW's rather idiotic decision to buff all Speese Mehreens to 2 wounds.
alextroy wrote: Wait? What? How does "not as durable as a Nob" translate into 2 Wound Beast Snagga Boyz?
Well if the Nob goes up to 3 wounds...
Wouldn't it be crazy if it went Grots 1 wound, Boyz 2 wounds, Snagga Boyz 3 wounds, Nobz 4 wounds, Mega Armoured Nobz 5 wounds?
Again...hard pass. I don't trust GW to correctly adjust points, and realistically 4 wound nobz would either be incredibly OP or more likely, hot garbage.
"While they’re not quite as durable as a Nob, they can certainly swing their choppas just as hard"
Meaning 1 wound, T4, S5.
This is my interpretation as well, the mention of "durable" as a nob to me also means they are likely going to T5 and nobz are as well. Its going to be interesting because one of the biggest drawbacks to boyz right now is that they lack offensive punch AND staying power, they only make up for these short comings by taking 100+ models and buffing characters like painboy/weirdboy.
some bloke wrote: "by necessity Beast Snagga Doks are some of the most ‘creative’ around"
Meaning lots of upgrades - I'm guessing squig parts and cybork. Could this be the long-anticipated return of gyrostabilised monowheels?
Could be, I was assuming the Painboy would get either an enhanced FNP role (5+ *Gasp) OR possibly get the Space Marine ability to resurrect dead boyz, maybe my stitching several dead together, like for every 2 dead boyz, on a 5+ resuscitate 1.
some bloke wrote: "it can be a good laugh seeing the Beast Snagga Boyz trying to harpoon giant tanks"
I hope this means some sort of boarding action for anti-tank. The idea of harpooning a tank, to my mind, implies having a big thing to mount a tank-harpoon onto. Please oh please oh please let it be a plastic squiggoth kit!!!
I expect thise to be expensive (money-wise), in mobs of 5-15, with several cybork or squig-bitz options for the unit, T4, S5, 1 wound.
I'm thinking this is their "rokket' powered spears we saw early.
All told i'm hoping for the best but based on previous releases I am assuming it won't be priced correctly. (Looking at you Squigbuggy...or as xenomancer calls it "Over powered")
Eonfuzz wrote: I mean, high wounds low save is a fairly unique statline right? I don't think there's many (if any) models that follow that same concept.
Chaos Spawn, Ogryns, Hellions, Drukhari beasts, most "medium" Tyranids (Lictors, Warriors, Raveners, ), all Swarms. To name a few...
hellions are still 8.5 points per wound, and Ogryns are like 10 I think. In order to truly claim a unit is going for that kind of a thing with their defenses, I'd think they'd need to have a lower points per wound than basic GEQ.
Chaos Spawn is the only "bag of flesh" type of unit I can really think of. And even then, they have a 5+ armor save. Because even the faction of bags of flesh of the literal "bag of flesh" god are full of FNP, Invuls, and other stuff.
Insectum7 wrote: Tyranid Warriors have a 4+, which I wouldn't count as low. Raveners have a 5+ iirc though.
With current guns (and doctrines), I definitely count it as low.
AP is just way too wide-spread.
Well a 4+ is right in the middle between a 2+ and a 6+ so I dunno how you'd qualify 5,6 and 7 (I think Spore Mines have a 7+) if 4+ is low
It doesn't matter that its in the 'middle.' What matters is that its easily countered (5+ barely matters, and 6 and 7+ are functionally the same as nonexistent in many cases)
The current armor system only works if AP0 is actually the default for most armies. At this point, it isn't.
Insectum7 wrote: Tyranid Warriors have a 4+, which I wouldn't count as low. Raveners have a 5+ iirc though.
With current guns (and doctrines), I definitely count it as low.
AP is just way too wide-spread.
Well a 4+ is right in the middle between a 2+ and a 6+ so I dunno how you'd qualify 5,6 and 7 (I think Spore Mines have a 7+) if 4+ is low
It doesn't matter that its in the 'middle.' What matters is that its easily countered.
The current armor system only works if AP0 is actually the default for most armies. At this point, it isn't.
which is why I do not want Ork boyz to get a 2nd wound nor a better armor save because the meta is designed to fight against SMs right now and by bringing Ork boyz into the same category of defensive traits as SM orkz will suffer because they will not have the same durability per point and will absolutely not have the same level of damage output.
jeff white wrote: New ork sculpts are meh at best. Boar boys should be easy stand-ins unless GW do their magic IP dance and make beastsnaggas somehow difficult to convert, such as needing a snot or grot passenger or some odd weapon the boar boyz didn’t carry.
GW shenanigans are in such bad faith. Evil mean spirited money grabbers suck the enthusiasm from older hobbyists especially. Just gets so tiresome with the fanbois saying yeay and the people who have been around to see such bad faith in action for so many years saying nay.
Meanwhile it is obvious that GW is acting in bad faith by the divisiveness they cause. Most people blame the hobbyists who complain but I blame GW money grabbers.
They are definitely 2 wounds with a 2++ and in cover with invisibility. Whatever happens with these orks, the money grabbers at GW have definitely benn primaricized... yuck.
Been around for near 30 years now and I have no idea what you're on about, but you clearly have a bone to pick with almost every single post.
Sorta Kinda?
Was the unit asspulled out of new lore? Check
What good is a massive universe with billions of planets if you can't find new things within it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crimson wrote: They're just Skarboyz. The concept has existed forever, now they have dedicated models.
I think they're going to have a FNP, too with some sort of special dok boost on top.
As if they weren’t tough enough already, the frequent and plentiful injuries that come as part of any career in squig-wrangling* mean frequent trips to the Dok, and by necessity Beast Snagga Doks are some of the most ‘creative’ around.
Yes good Primaris Orks, next up are Primaris Guardians, Primaris Aspect Warriors, Primaris Wraith constructs, Primaris Guardsmen, Primaris Ogryns, Primaris Ratlings and much more Primaris
Insectum7 wrote: Tyranid Warriors have a 4+, which I wouldn't count as low. Raveners have a 5+ iirc though.
With current guns (and doctrines), I definitely count it as low.
AP is just way too wide-spread.
Well a 4+ is right in the middle between a 2+ and a 6+ so I dunno how you'd qualify 5,6 and 7 (I think Spore Mines have a 7+) if 4+ is low
It doesn't matter that its in the 'middle.' What matters is that its easily countered (5+ barely matters, and 6 and 7+ are functionally the same as nonexistent in many cases)
The current armor system only works if AP0 is actually the default for most armies. At this point, it isn't.
Since saves can also be buffed by simply sitting in cover I heartily disagree.
Tyran wrote: Dakkadakka during a Marine release: "Will someone think about the Xenos?"
Dakkadakka during a Xenos release: "Why they couldn't leave the Xenos alone?".
I openly admit I am jaded in this regard LOL. I've watched GW push out Imperial Knights and in the next breath go "Here you go orkz, have these Orkanaughts and shut up, they are just as good". I've watched GW push out Plasma inceptors and hellblasters in the same edition that they take the inferior flashgitz and nerf them.
As far as the casual neglect, I remember GW brought out all the armies to an Adepticon (think it was 2018) but they didn't bring out an Ork army. When asked why they hadn't brought out the Ork army GW's PR people said "It genuinely is because the studio Ork army is not 4,000 points! No conspiracy theory here - that's the truth! We do love Orks too... trust us!"
So yes, I am a bit jaded so please forgive me for my negativity in regards to this. If GW surprises me I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, I just don't trust them, especially since they apparently don't even have anyone on their staff who plays orkz on the regular. Not to mention I still haven't forgiven them for not giving us a new codex for all of 5th, all of 6th and than giving us arguably the worst codex by far in 7th and than making us wait to be basically the last major faction to get an 8th edition codex before ramping up to 8.5
Caradman Sturnn wrote: Yes good Primaris Orks, next up are Primaris Guardians, Primaris Aspect Warriors, Primaris Wraith constructs, Primaris Guardsmen, Primaris Ogryns, Primaris Ratlings and much more Primaris
The Imperial Guard is hilarious in this regard.
Guardsmen are just Primaris Conscripts. Veterans are just Primaris Guardsmen. Tempestus Scions are just a Primaris Veterans. Bullgrins are just Primaris Ogryns.
Caradman Sturnn wrote: Yes good Primaris Orks, next up are Primaris Guardians, Primaris Aspect Warriors, Primaris Wraith constructs, Primaris Guardsmen, Primaris Ogryns, Primaris Ratlings and much more Primaris
The Imperial Guard is hilarious in this regard.
Guardsmen are just Primaris Conscripts.
Veterans are just Primaris Guardsmen.
Tempestus Scions are just a Primaris Veterans.
Bullgrins are just Primaris Ogryns.
That's why Primaris are a silly idea in the first place. Marines already had multiple tiers of capability from Scout to Terminator. Primaris are a shoehorned-in side-grade (for $$$).
That's why Primaris are a silly idea in the first place. Marines already had multiple tiers of capability from Scout to Terminator. Primaris are a shoehorned-in side-grade (for $$$).
And Orks have the design space for middle tier troops between Boys and Nobz, they are not Space Marines who have been over-saturated.
That's why Primaris are a silly idea in the first place. Marines already had multiple tiers of capability from Scout to Terminator. Primaris are a shoehorned-in side-grade (for $$$).
And Orks have the design space for middle tier troops between Boys and Nobz, they are not Space Marines who have been over-saturated.
Insectum7 wrote: Well that's stupid. They should just be real units like they used to be.
Hence the Snagga Boys, who are likely repackaged Skarboyz.
Heheh, well that looks to fall into the category of classic GW then. "You wanted old unit X back? How about we give you this brand new different unit Y instead!" Which is kinda totally "Primaris".
GW: We see our customers spending hours and hours of extra time "truescaling" their marine models. Instead of upscaling the current line, we'll introduce a whole new, different type of Marine. Wheeeee!!!
If these wind up being "feral Orks" I'm all for it, mind you. But talk about "design space" seems a little odd when these other units used to exist (and still do apparently, even if they're a CP unlock rather than a unique datasheet.) Hopefully Skarboyz and 'ard Boyz wind up as datasheets in the same way that Veteran Intercessors wound up as datasheets in the 9th ed codex.
Insectum7 wrote: Well that's stupid. They should just be real units like they used to be.
Hence the Snagga Boys, who are likely repackaged Skarboyz.
Heheh, well that looks to fall into the category of classic GW then. "You wanted old unit X back? How about we give you this brand new different unit Y instead!" Which is kinda totally "Primaris".
GW: We see our customers spending hours and hours of extra time "truescaling" their marine models. Instead of upscaling the current line, we'll introduce a whole new, different type of Marine. Wheeeee!!!
If these wind up being "feral Orks" I'm all for it, mind you. But talk about "design space" seems a little odd when these other units used to exist (and still do apparently, even if they're a CP unlock rather than a unique datasheet.) Hopefully Skarboyz and 'ard Boyz wind up as datasheets in the same way that Veteran Intercessors wound up as datasheets in the 9th ed codex.
Why does it matter if they're called Skarboyz or Beast Snagga boyz? Getting hung up on the name is silly.
Heheh, well that looks to fall into the category of classic GW then. "You wanted old unit X back? How about we give you this brand new different unit Y instead!" Which is kinda totally "Primaris".
GW: We see our customers spending hours and hours of extra time "truescaling" their marine models. Instead of upscaling the current line, we'll introduce a whole new, different type of Marine. Wheeeee!!!
If these wind up being "feral Orks" I'm all for it, mind you. But talk about "design space" seems a little odd when these other units used to exist (and still do apparently, even if they're a CP unlock rather than a unique datasheet.) Hopefully Skarboyz and 'ard Boyz wind up as datasheets in the same way that Veteran Intercessors wound up as datasheets in the 9th ed codex.
It is classic GW in the sense that it is something they have done long before the Primaris, see my Tyranids examples above: Doom of Malant'ai -> Neurothrope, Mycetic Spore -> Tyrannocyte.
The issue with the Primaris isn't that they were an old unit brought back, but that they exist alongside the old units, plus the thematic inconsistencies with the established lore (which is different from simply being new lore).
I mean, the Primaris are better Marines that were created with innovation, when the whole point of the IoM's technology is that it is pure dogmatic stupidity that couldn't innovate itself out of a paper bag (see the Nova Cannon's building sized projectiles being manually loaded with manpower), so GW had to create an entirely new character who is basically an heretek with a secret army out of nowhere to justify the Primaris.
Beast Snaggas are simply Orks with a monster fetish and at least IMHO that has no issue coexisting with established Ork lore.
I figure defensively, the new Ork upgrade will be one of the following:
5+ Save
6+ Invulnerable Save
Toughness 5
Anything more than this and they are trodding on the ground they gave to the truly durable factions like Marines, Death Guard, and Necrons.
At 5+ save they take the role (sadly) of Eavy Armor Ard boyz who used to be 4+ save at S5 they are also taking the role of "Skar" boyz. I highly doubt they get a 6+ invuln as well as T5 but even if they did they would be priced terribly, honestly at that point they would probably try to jack the price up to 10-11pts per model.
You have a right to be jaded, but GW's 9th Edition track record has been lots of small buffs to units at no cost increase. I can totally see GW just giving the average Ork a 5+ Save, upgrading DDD to and extra hit on 6's, and changing Green Tide to be +1 attack while there are 10+ models in the unit all while leaving Ork Boyz at 8 points a model. Look at how much they buffed Drukari Kabalite Warriors at no price increase.
I see the other two defensive buffs as less possible, but I doubt they will leave Boyz at 8 points a model with no increase to defenses. It just doesn't seem to fit the current power paradigm.
Heheh, well that looks to fall into the category of classic GW then. "You wanted old unit X back? How about we give you this brand new different unit Y instead!" Which is kinda totally "Primaris".
GW: We see our customers spending hours and hours of extra time "truescaling" their marine models. Instead of upscaling the current line, we'll introduce a whole new, different type of Marine. Wheeeee!!!
If these wind up being "feral Orks" I'm all for it, mind you. But talk about "design space" seems a little odd when these other units used to exist (and still do apparently, even if they're a CP unlock rather than a unique datasheet.) Hopefully Skarboyz and 'ard Boyz wind up as datasheets in the same way that Veteran Intercessors wound up as datasheets in the 9th ed codex.
It is classic GW in the sense that it is something they have done long before the Primaris, see my Tyranids examples above: Doom of Malant'ai -> Neurothrope, Mycetic Spore -> Tyrannocyte.
The issue with the Primaris isn't that they were an old unit brought back, but that they exist alongside the old units, plus the thematic inconsistencies with the established lore (which is different from simply being new lore).
The Doom was a Special Character, I'm not sure the Neurothrope is a replacement in that sense. That'd be like Old One Eye becoming "Generic Carnifex Character" and being able to take multiple of them. I think the Mycetic Spore only existed for one edition prior to the transformation to the Tyrannocyte, so there's not much legacy there.
Skarboyz existed for decades (and still exist as an upgrade).
Both were real units once, and in 9th Skarboyz will likely get the trueborn/bloodbrides/haemoxytes treatment, aka normal boyz that cost +2ppm and in the need of an upgraded warboss to be unlocked.
Insectum7 wrote: Well that's stupid. They should just be real units like they used to be.
Hence the Snagga Boys, who are likely repackaged Skarboyz.
Heheh, well that looks to fall into the category of classic GW then. "You wanted old unit X back? How about we give you this brand new different unit Y instead!" Which is kinda totally "Primaris".
GW: We see our customers spending hours and hours of extra time "truescaling" their marine models. Instead of upscaling the current line, we'll introduce a whole new, different type of Marine. Wheeeee!!!
If these wind up being "feral Orks" I'm all for it, mind you. But talk about "design space" seems a little odd when these other units used to exist (and still do apparently, even if they're a CP unlock rather than a unique datasheet.) Hopefully Skarboyz and 'ard Boyz wind up as datasheets in the same way that Veteran Intercessors wound up as datasheets in the 9th ed codex.