Another Massive Warhammer Preview Online is Coming, and it’s Mighty, Fighty, and Green
Cripes, we’re barely done with the launch celebration for Dominion, and now we’re hearing that trouble is brewing in the 41st Millennium? With the Adepta Sororitas preparing to put the Charadon Sector to the torch, you’d be forgiven for thinking things are going to simmer down a little, but as we all know in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. This time it’s the turn of the Octarius Sector.
That’s right, hot on the heels of the Dominion Celebration, we’re plunging headfirst into another Warhammer Preview Online on Saturday, this time giving you an early look at what’s coming up next for Warhammer 40,000. Following the culmination of the War Zone Charadon story in Book II – The Book of Fire, our eyes turn to Ultima Segmentum where a meaner, greener threat brews.
Those of you who know your lore will remember that of all the forces that inhabit the Octarius Sector, the Orks have a particularly large presence. Previously content to bloody themselves against the tendrils of Hive Fleet Leviathan, the local greenskins are beginning to spill out into surrounding systems and the constant conflict within Octarius is just about to reach a boiling point.
You may remember from Warhammer Fest Online that more Ork reveals are yet to come, and it’s going to be quite hard to keep the lid on them once they know we’re off to one of their favourite fighty places.*
Make sure to join us promptly on Saturday 10th July at 5:45pm BST/12:45pm EDT so you don’t miss out on any of the excellent reveals. Check out the image below to find out when the Warhammer Preview Online will be going live in your part of the world.
* After Armageddon, of course. Almost nothing beats Armageddon for a good scrap.
What surprises me is that Black Templars are supposed to come out in September / October.
Says who? GW said yesterday there will be a Chaos AOS armybook in October, plus there's Ork wave 2 and probably other AOS stuff likely to come by then too.
What surprises me is that Black Templars are supposed to come out in September / October. Do they fit in octarius?
Yeah with the Orks confirmed, lots of rumours about Black Templars and some about Kreig/greatcoat IG. I had assumed GW were getting ready to revisit Armageddon. Maybe Helbrecht is still looking for Gaz and he ends up in the area?
Pretty packed schedule, all things considered. I'm very curious when they're going to touch on the leaked Horus Heresy pics, and when those sets will release as well.
Beast Snaggas box was supposed to be this month in July, wasn't it?
Shadow Walker wrote: Octarius could suggest some nids but we all know this will not happen so Orks plus some Aeronautica/Kill Team maybe?
From the article…
The image shows Octarius Orks fighting nids, and they put it to illustrate Orks news incoming. I really want to be surpised by some nids love but there is nothing giving me the hope this time.
Will it be their PA stuff reprinted, Crusade rules, or something else?
With these Krieg rumours I'm now wondering if they & Orks get the new models this time, with Tyranids getting 'codex supplement' style rules for hive fleet Leviathan.
Then later we see a second Octarius book with the Nid codex.
Is the Flashpoint article in the July White Dwarf a coincidence?...
Spoiler:
White Dwarf Issue 466 is on the horizon,* and with it comes a treasure trove of Warhammer goodness including our first foray into a new Flashpoint – the war-torn Octarius sector. The opening salvos of this conflict see the mysterious Dark Krakens Space Marines clash with Hive Fleet Leviathan beneath the waves of the Mirror Sea, complete with Theatre of War rules allowing you to fight your own underwater battles.
Ever since DKoK got hit in the face with a shovel after that Forgeworld Update I've been wondering if GW would make them a plastic faction alongside Cadians. They have been incredibly popular as of late.
Still seems pretty packed with releases if we're seeing new things for Tyranids, Orks and DKOK and possibly Black Templars all at once.
Krieg + Kommandos would be a fun box set, I'd certainly consider it.
What surprises me is that Black Templars are supposed to come out in September / October.
Says who? GW said yesterday there will be a Chaos AOS armybook in October, plus there's Ork wave 2 and probably other AOS stuff likely to come by then too.
xttz wrote: There's a couple of likely Nid rumour engine pics - I didn't think we'd see them this year though!
edit: the article thumbnail looks like a Krieg guardsman too
There have been rumours elsewhere that one of the Ork kits would be introduced in a new Kill Team box that would have them against a squad of plastic Krieg.
Edit: Ha, god, should have reloaded the thread first.
xttz wrote: There's a couple of likely Nid rumour engine pics - I didn't think we'd see them this year though!
edit: the article thumbnail looks like a Krieg guardsman too
There have been rumours elsewhere that one of the Ork kits would be introduced in a new Kill Team box that would have them against a squad of plastic Krieg.
Edit: Ha, god, should have reloaded the thread first.
No idea where you folk get these rumours but plakky Krieg would be one of the more exciting releases in many, many years for myself and definitely somewhat problematic for my wallet!
What surprises me is that Black Templars are supposed to come out in September / October.
Says who? GW said yesterday there will be a Chaos AOS armybook in October, plus there's Ork wave 2 and probably other AOS stuff likely to come by then too.
black templars will get a simple supplement in one of these campaign books garenteed
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: It would be hilarious if Plastic Krieg ended up being cheaper than Plastic Cadians
Well they certainly wont need as many bare head options
At the least, plastic Krieg will have about 40 less poses than the resin ones. And if they are in plastic, FW can drop the resin Krieg SKUs and bring back Elysians!
Here's hoping this kill team edition / system / whatever it's going to be, is more like shadow war armageddon. Kill team felt way more gamey and less tactictal than it should have been.
The readying mechanic disintivized fire and maneuver to such a large extant too. I felt like if my models weren't staying still I was being punished.
Really? Shadow War Armageddon was one of the most painful systems I've ever played.
"Oh your made your Armor Save against some bullets. Sorry you're pinned and useless now, tough luck."
Kill Team 1e was the sweet spot for me, 2e added a lot of mechanical complexity. Lot of good ideas but just too many layers of rules and the progression system had a lot of "bonus but only in this case" abilities.
I have not and I'm not a fan of pinning. I felt bad when the Space Marine player essentially couldn't take a turn because I had more Boyz and Shootas than he had turns.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Really? Shadow War Armageddon was one of the most painful systems I've ever played.
"Oh your made your Armor Save against some bullets. Sorry you're pinned and useless now, tough luck."
Kill Team 1e was the sweet spot for me, 2e added a lot of mechanical complexity. Lot of good ideas but just too many layers of rules and the progression system had a lot of "bonus but only in this case" abilities.
yeah, that was awesome! You got around this by typically buddying up with another friendly unit within 3 inchs i think. It created a system where you also didn't put all your eggs in one basket, and bounded up squads so that they could each support the other. I REALLY enjoyed that system. Granted I did win the local campaign....
Current kill team has an entirely differnt design philosophy that is far more list buildy and gamey.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: It would be hilarious if Plastic Krieg ended up being cheaper than Plastic Cadians
Eeh gw doesn't make new kits cheaper than old. Cadians are 35e/10. That's lowest krieg would be
Back before FW brought in regional pricing and as an Australian you could buy Krieg at UK prices, they were actually similar price to what Cadians are now
Of course then GW started their regional pricing on FW stuff with their imaginary exchange rates and blew that idea out of the water.
I'm 50/50 on whether I'd want GW to bring out plastic Kriegers, if they do them in typical GW bobblehead style it will ruin the aesthetic that FW have created.
In this case, I could see a basic greatcoat (Krieg) infantry box and then perhaps upgrade sprues for Steel Legion, Valhallans, and possibly Vostroyans.
Sotahullu wrote: Well plastic Kriegs or not it will take time before there is going to be separate release for it if it comes with killteam set.
Should that be the case then the wait shouldn't be too long. The models in the Pariah Nexus set were about three months later for their separate release, and maybe we'll see the IG codex drop at the same time.
Hoping if Nids appear in this wars zone its in a second book, otherwise I'd expect just a single model or something as Orks are the primary focus of the first one and with rumours of Krieg as well that would squeeze out a model update for Nids.
Plastic Krieg could be why we haven’t seen the Grenadiers, Centaur and Death Rider’s come back into stock on the FW site. Maybe there’s going to be plastic kits for these?
Malika2 wrote:Hmm why the big time difference between Berlin and London though?
Merkel was in London a few days ago. One of the results of the negotiations is, that we'll see this preview 5 hours earlier than everyone else. That's how diplomacy works.
ImAGeek wrote:It’s obviously a mistake, but considering they’re always at the same time it’s a weird mistake to make. Just use the same chart surely.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Really? Shadow War Armageddon was one of the most painful systems I've ever played.
"Oh your made your Armor Save against some bullets. Sorry you're pinned and useless now, tough luck."
You obviously never played the original Necromunda.
Pinning is a vital mechanic to that game.
Problem with SWA wasn't Pinning, it was the average BS being 2 better than in Necromunda as GW just ported over 40k stats wholesale without thinking (shocker!)
silverstu wrote: Hoping if Nids appear in this wars zone its in a second book, otherwise I'd expect just a single model or something as Orks are the primary focus of the first one and with rumours of Krieg as well that would squeeze out a model update for Nids.
Nids don't exactly need a huge model release. Bio/pyrovore, lictor. Terrain piece. Potentially a redo of gangs and or genestealers. Heirodule in plastic?
silverstu wrote: Hoping if Nids appear in this wars zone its in a second book, otherwise I'd expect just a single model or something as Orks are the primary focus of the first one and with rumours of Krieg as well that would squeeze out a model update for Nids.
Nids don't exactly need a huge model release. Bio/pyrovore, lictor. Terrain piece. Potentially a redo of gangs and or genestealers. Heirodule in plastic?
That's all they needed for the past 15 years but every time they get 2 random new big monsters instead.
silverstu wrote: Hoping if Nids appear in this wars zone its in a second book, otherwise I'd expect just a single model or something as Orks are the primary focus of the first one and with rumours of Krieg as well that would squeeze out a model update for Nids.
Nids don't exactly need a huge model release. Bio/pyrovore, lictor. Terrain piece. Potentially a redo of gangs and or genestealers. Heirodule in plastic?
That's all they needed for the past 15 years but every time they get 2 random new big monsters instead.
Gaunts and genestealers definitely need a new kit. I find it weird that gw let some armies basic troops with such antiquated models. It discourage me from starting a few new armies since i dont want to assemble and paint so many old crappy minis
I guess the issue is that there’s certain kits where the only flaw is being old.
Modern is good of course. But other than being overly fiddly, the Gaunts still pretty much do their job. The Hormies could also do with more robust joins to the base. They’re by no means horribly fragile, but still vulnerable to accidents.
Certainly I’d say the main offenders are all pretty much good these days, and in terms of the “oh god I wish this was plastic” they’ve nailed the range.
Biovore and Pyrovore May be in a dodgy material, but they’re chunky enough to not be too awful to put together.
Oh. The Lictor needs plastic, stat. Thankfully I’m pretty sure we’ve seen this in the Rumour Engine.
Tyranids need a full design revamp, these "space dinosaurs" look dated and goofy and to be honest I have last worked on them around 2005 and they still look the same thing now in 2021. Boring & stagnant design really.
NAVARRO wrote: Tyranids need a full design revamp, these "space dinosaurs" look dated and goofy and to be honest I have last worked on them around 2005 and they still look the same thing now in 2021. Boring & stagnant design really.
Nids have definitely had a decent suit of release over the years. Main thing I’d want to be tempted back are updated Termies and Hormies.
They got a very healthy swathe of releases from 2010 - 2014, then nothing at all since (unless you count GSC). No matter how good a model range is you'd expect at least something from seven years. There are plenty of options even from older / discontinued units.
One of the two rumour engine pics we have strongly implies a new Red Terror model. It would be interesting to see if Nids ever get the staple giant plastic centrepiece model, equivalent to the Silent King or Daemon Primarchs. Shrikes would also be cool to see
streetsamurai wrote: Gaunts and genestealers definitely need a new kit. I find it weird that gw let some armies basic troops with such antiquated models. It discourage me from starting a few new armies since i dont want to assemble and paint so many old crappy minis
The genestealer sculpts for Space Hulk in 2009 were fantastic, yet 12 years later we still only have the old monopose models available instead.
Nids need new gaunts (of all varieties possible), new stealers, plastic lictors/Deathleaper, plastic vores, shrikes/Parasite of Mortrex/raveners/Red Terror combined kit, and most important of all, a plastic LoW choice like maybe some hierodules/dominatrix combined kit. Plastic spore mines that are separate from other kits would be nice too, same for rippers.
silverstu wrote: Hoping if Nids appear in this wars zone its in a second book, otherwise I'd expect just a single model or something as Orks are the primary focus of the first one and with rumours of Krieg as well that would squeeze out a model update for Nids.
Nids don't exactly need a huge model release. Bio/pyrovore, lictor. Terrain piece. Potentially a redo of gangs and or genestealers. Heirodule in plastic?
Yeah, we have a good range I'dlike something added to it that freshens it up a bit more, lets evolve more as a lot of the designs we have been looking at for quite a while [and Nids are supposed to evolve]. Plus the standard of sculpts has improved so much in the last few years. But mostly I'm hoping we don't just get a single model along with a book release.
Hoping for a few special critters/characters as well as lictors and Biovores/Pyrovores. A proper centrepiece model would be nice too. But I'm a collector/modeller more than a gamer so models interest me more than anything else. It doesn't have to an extensive release, just an interesting one- a new red terror type model, parasite of mortrex model/something new would add a lot. The Fex kit is great but is from 4th ed - maybe a new biomorph sprue.. Theres so much they could do with the range- fresh biomorph/weapon sprues would add a lot to existing kits.
Kinda conflicted now. I just bought Dominion. I'm not sure about the upcoming Beastsnagga box, but I'm tempted. Now potentially new Kommandos as well?
Money is not the issue - I bought Dominion with basically free cash I got for being a proband for some colleagues' research, otherwise I wouldn't have added to the pile of shame - but space and a sense of just having too very much are.
Primaris Infiltrators/Incursors and Battle Sisters/Celestians are two fairly recent cases of dual boxes where the unit changes depending on the head & weapon options used. They're still also regularly producing kits for heros where you can build either a special character or a generic hero unit. I don't think GW has shown any signs of having stopped producing dual kits, so I'm not sure why people would think they have.
Shadow Walker wrote: Nids need new gaunts (of all varieties possible), new stealers, plastic lictors/Deathleaper, plastic vores, shrikes/Parasite of Mortrex/raveners/Red Terror combined kit, and most important of all, a plastic LoW choice like maybe some hierodules/dominatrix combined kit. Plastic spore mines that are separate from other kits would be nice too, same for rippers.
Don't raveners have a kit already? And Spore mines would make more sense bundled with the biovore than a standalone kit. Shrikes could be an upgrade sprue for the warrior kit.
NAVARRO wrote: Tyranids need a full design revamp, these "space dinosaurs" look dated and goofy and to be honest I have last worked on them around 2005 and they still look the same thing now in 2021. Boring & stagnant design really.
Make scary monsters instead and dump the dinos...
How exactly does this look like a space dinosaur.
You should ask that to the designers not me.
From a 2005 exclusive interview to old warpshadow forums.
Phil Kelly on Q1.
(would be nice someone hosted this somewhere since all old sites no longer online)
Spoiler:
Not that this indomitable duo of highly specialised, gene spliced design drones would need any introdution around here, but just to be sure:
Jes Goodwyn has been designing Games Workshop models for what seems like an eternity. Among a gazillion other things he has been the driving force behind the Tyranid design.
Phil Kelly should also be considered a loyal servant to the Hive as he has been playing with a Tyranid army for many years and is the author of the latest Tyranid Codex.
First off, We would like to thank the both of you on the behalf of the members of Warpshadow for granting us the honour of this exclusive interview. There are a lot of Tyranid players out there who have been waiting patiently for the re-working of the Tyranid list and model range. On their behalf, we would also like to thank you for putting so much hard work into revising the line and its codex.
Phil: Just doin’ our job Sir. Seriously though it was a lot of fun. Got one hell of a monster fix that year I can tell you…
Jes: Our pleasure, I’ve had to be patient also, but I’m getting better at it after the therapy. Anyway guys, there were several other guys on the team. Roberto Cirillo did a lot of concept work and visualisation. Mark Harrison did a lot of the sculpting [The lictor is my favourite of his] and of course the spirit of Mr Chambers was always with us.
Q1: What kind of goals did the both of you set for yourselves when you began reworking the Tyranids?
Jes: From my point of view it was really picking back up from where it had got to last time. We were really rushed at the end of the last Tyranid project and I don’t feel that we did some of the models justice. Since Phil will probably take this from the rules/background angle, I guess I’ll concentrate on the models [Can’t promise though]
Here we go: [I’ll use bullet points ‘cos I bet Phil will]
* Extend the range of plastics available. We get a chance to revisit plastics with each big release, and I had a grand plan from the last time, so it was a matter of dusting that off and seeing if it was still relevant
* To make them more ‘Tyraniddy’ rather than ‘Alienesque’. It had always been the intention to make them an expression of the Gribbly/B-movie alien Archetype, which the Alien, the Predator, the Thing, the Metaluna mutant are all expressions of rather than being archetypes themselves. I also wanted to play up the Reptilian/Dinosaur/Crustacean elements to get rid of the ‘insect’ tag, Tyranids should look like an amalgamation of lots of different species, you shouldn’t be able to pigeonhole them easily [The original brief for them at the time of Rogue Trader was for 6-limbed, bio-engineered dinosaurs in space]
* To continue to make them feel that they are all part of one race, by extending the visual elements that had been established in the previous plastics, and using consistent textures and morphology
* To remake as many of the previous designs that we weren’t happy with as the deadlines allowed
* To reintroduce some of the elements of the 2nd ed ‘nids that had got lost, and that I felt gave them much of their ‘niddy character [see above] • To carry on the ‘master plan’ that Andy and I had worked on in the past There were a whole load of individual goals for specific models, but these are the big themes.
Phil: That’s one hell of a question. I think I’ll just set out the major goals rather than go into detail or I’ll be here all day. OK, here’s my points:
* Ensure that 40K Tyranid armies look like we portray them in our background and fiction. There are far too many lists out there trying to get the most out of the mutation rules, ie taking a bare minimum of species and cramming as many rending claws in there as possible. That’s not what the Tyranids should be about.
* Make sure the middleweight Tyranids get back into the fray – Warriors, Lictors, Zoanthropes and Raveners were being left on the shelf and armies (including my own) consisted of only the little guys and the really big guys.
* Make good on the promise that you can field lots of different styles of Tyranid army, all effective in their own right – we now have at least six effective and distinct army styles available to Tyranid players. These are the Godzilla army, the Critter swarm, the Shooty army, the Warrior army, the Flying Circus and the Combined Arms force. Not bad from one Codex. As to which is the most efficient, only time (and a lot of gribbling) will tell. I have my bets placed.
* Make an off-the-shelf main list army a competitive option without customising every damn thing in the list.
* Make all broods effective in their own way and correctly costed.
* Remove the ‘individuality’ implied by mutants in broods and special characters.
* Move the Tyranid narrative forward with Hive Fleet Leviathan.
* Do Andy Chambers proud.
There are many more, but on with the show.
Q2:. What, if any, inspiration did you draw from previous incarnations of the Tyranids?
Phil: The background from the second edition Tyranid book was top quality stuff, from the pen of Mr. Chambers himself. So I nicked almost all of it, like the shameless magpie I am. With a few modifications, of course…we had a very strict directive from Rick to include a massive chunk of background.
Jes: Miniatures wise, I wanted to recapture some of the distinctiveness of 2 nd Ed, but with the models updated to fit in with the Tyranid visual style that we began to develop in 3 rd. In particular I wanted the Hive Tyrant to be closer to the rest of the Tyranids than a certain movie icon, and to get back some of the dynamism of the 2 nd ed Lictor
Q3: We have heard tell of a new addition to the Tyranid list. Can either of you comment on what inspired this new addition?
Jes: Ah, the Broodlord. The nature of the genestealers is that they are the Tyranid species most prone to being mutable by their very nature. We kicked around a lot of possibilities based around the ‘stealers, the Broodlord just seemed to fit the bill for the list.
Phil: We were intending to do the Broodlord as a special character, about whom we intend to remain irritatingly quiet. But he made it in as an HQ choice instead. He is an evolution of the genestealer background, which has always been a favourite of mine.
Q4: Have there been any plans to resurrect the infamous Genestealer Cult in the form of a codex or White Dwarf article with rules for them?
Phil: Ah, that old chestnut. We do get a lot of people asking, several quite highly placed in the company, and myself and Jes are interested in revisiting them. They will never get their own Codex – we just don’t think they are all that appropriate for the battlefield (after all that’s what the main Tyranid list is for) and are more suited to smaller games like Inquisitor and Killteam. I wanted the main 40K list to be 100% alien, and not have any human auxiliary stuff – it would dilute the alien nature of the Tyranid army.
Jes; What he said, but I think that they would make a logical adversary for the Alienhunters. Q5. After the Tyranids were released in third edition, Jes made certain prophetic statements about the possibility of a plastic carnifex and new plastic Genestealers in the Tyranids' future. Now we see that these prophetic statements have come to pass. We are all happy that the Tyranids have been revised so quickly, but it would be hard to imagine that the most highly-evolved army in 40K has reached the end of its evolution. Would either of you care to say anything about possible future developments for the Tyranid story line/model line/rule set?
Jes: Almost like it was planned………………….;-]. I think there is a lot more mileage in themed armies, extending Phil’s range of different styles, a winged army perhaps. Be the perfect excuse to do Gargoyles in plastic, wouldn’t it? More plastics would also mean more biomorphs, which would mean extending the choice for some troop types. Maybe some ‘genofixed’ species might become mutable, as the Hive plays with new ideas.
Q6: We have heard exciting rumors of an upcoming campaign involving Tyranids, can you confirm that and, if so, can you give us more details?
Phil: There is an upcoming 40K campaign for next summer, and Tyranids will be taking part. That’s all you’re getting I’m afraid!
Q7: Jes, How did Games Workshop decide which of the new Tyranid models would be plastic and which wouldn't?
Jes: Plastic is usually reserved for troops that you need lots of or big things that are impractical to do in metal. This is sort of changing as new technology makes an impact, but we are usually given a certain amount of ‘frames’ to play with, the Carnifex took up three! [Actually, I just whined about a plastic Carnifex until they gave in,]
Q8: Phil, what kind of new strategic avenues will be opened up to Tyranid players by the new codex?
Phil: As described above, there are a lot more army styles available to the Tyranid players out there.Over playtesting I got the bejeezus shot out of me by a shooty army fielded by Alessio Cavatore, they are a lot of fun. I am a recent convert to the way of the Tyranid Warrior with Deathspitter and Rending Claws. Tyranid weapons have become a lot scarier, so expect to see more shootiness in Tyranid armies. Also, as I have harped on about on more than one occasion, the Tyranid player can now field ‘purer’ armies – with a Broodlord as HQ you can field a viable army of little guys without a monstrous creature in sight, or go to the other end of the spectrum and field an 8 monstrous creature army. Of course you’d have to be a hardcore nutcase to go for that, eh Marco? <grin>
Jes: L’avenue des Champs Elysee.
Q9: Are there any plans in the works to release a "Collecting Tyranids" hobby book like the one released for space marines? Will any of the Tyranid concept art work be included?
Phil: I would be very, very surprised if there wasn’t one of these published in the next few years, but it’s not us lot that produce those things so I can’t say for sure.
Jes: As Phil says, not our call, but Roberto and I would love to get more of the concept work published.
Q10: Jes, Phil, what kind of cool new projects would you want to work on if you got to continue working on the Tyranid line?
Jes: More variations for the Tyrant, each Tyrant should have its own distinctive crest, and there are extra tails, weapons etc that we could do. A Winged Tyrant [‘cos I worked out how it would work, despite the fact that people say it won’t take wings] Plastic Gargoyles, Bigger Monsters,…………
Phil: Hmm … bigger gribblies, a Tyranid-centric campaign, and an evolving Leviathan storyline in Codex: Alien Hunters.
Q11: Are there any left-field ideas you can share with us that didn't make it into the revised Tyranids?
Phil: Several ideas we talked about didn’t make it to the final cut, but nothing we do here is truly wasted – we may get them back into the process and refine them later down the line. I was keen to do a gravid Hive Tyrant that spews Rippers from its womb as a special character, but then I came to my senses – having individual characters for the Tyranids kind of defeats the point – they are characterized by their lack of individuality. I’ve always liked that angle that each Tyranid is but a single cell in a massive super-organism. Cells generally don’t have names.
Jes; I know what Phil is saying, but I can see special versions of monsters being relevant for campaigns. In fact now that the mutation rules are subsumed into the list maybe ‘Mutation’ is a more appropriate name for Tyranid ‘Special Characters’.
Q12: What do you think tournament and competitive players will look forward to most?
Phil: Viable middleweight creatures, fleet-of-claw genestealers, venom cannons that can cause penetrating hits on open-topped vehicles (bye bye land speeder squadron), Lictors that do not need maps and cannon fodder that can shoot worth a damn. Oh yes, and the Broodlord. There’s a new guy in town and his Initiative is better than yours.
Q13: We're seeing the Carnifex - with its broad range of upgrades, expanded force organisational roles and extensive modeling options - become a more prevalent and adaptable workhorse in the Tyranid force. What drove this design decision, and how do you see it shaping the way players build their armies?
Phil: Most of my work on the Carnifex was driven by the glut of options on the plastic kit and the prep work done by my esteemed colleague Mr. Goodwin. Over to you Jes
Jes: Like I said, I whined a lot……. We had always talked about a tank style piece for the ‘nids, but no-one liked the idea of the old ‘Slug Tanks’, visually they were just dull. I wanted the ‘fex to be a combination of dreadnought and tank, with lots of chances to customize, and as many biomorphs as we could get on the frames. I wanted to revisit the Monstrous Arms frame to bring the sculpting into line with the other plastics. I wanted to get an image out of my head that had been niggling away for several years. I wanted it to have that ‘wow’ factor. I wanted it bellowing, not grinning. I wanted a LIVING ENGINE OF DESTRUCTION dammit! [Like I said, I whined a lot] Andy C and myself had come up with several ‘breeds’ of Carnifex very early into the process, it was up to poor old Phil to make sense out the madness.
Q14: Shouldn't the Broodlord rather be called Patriarch ? Is there a difference ? Is there an additional model for the Patriarch in the Tyranids future, say in a campaign?
Phil: The Broodlord is a completely new species. I always think of him as the Olympic athlete of the Tyranid race – tough, fast, and strong. He’s at the peak of physical fitness for purpose, that purpose being to smack seven shades of Grox dung out of any enemy characters that come his way, of course. I always think of Patriarchs as more like a king than a warrior, probably because of that classic model of the Patriarch on his throne with Magus attendant. Always reminded me of Don Corleone, that chap.
Jes: No, Yes, Maybe, but not necessarily in that order ;-]
Q15: With the Black Library turning out some really impressive background books is there any chance of seeing something like that for Tyranids ?
Jes: Their call, I’m afraid, as I’ve said, both Roberto and I would love to get some more drawings into print.
Q16: Very nice that the Zoats made a short return and that the background on Kryptman's actions was expanded. Were there any wild background ideas that didn't make it into the book?
Phil: Zoats? What Zoats? I have no idea what you mean. Please report to Redistrubution Block Alpha-92 at your earliest opportunity.
Jes ; You might call them Zoats, we couldn’t possibly comment ;-]
There was one wild background idea that didn’t really get its day in the sun – that the Nids ate the Squats. They had to join the queue behind the Orks and the Inquisition!
Jes; Don’t listen to him, he’s from Essex.
Many thanks to Jes & Phil for taking the time to run through this veritable parcours of questions as well as to the infamous Warpshadow Gestalt Phage, Teatime and Mr. Pink. T`was a lot of fun.
I have my doubts about plastic DKoK. I feel like a standalone release of the blackstone fortress traitor guard (who also have gasmask heads) is more likely.
From a 2005 exclusive interview to old warpshadow forums.
Phil Kelly on Q1.
<snip>
Amazing, that's the most I've heard GW say about Tyranids... maybe ever. Thanks for posting that. It makes me sad that both of those guys are still around and we haven't seen a Tyranid in 7 years.
chaos0xomega wrote: I have my doubts about plastic DKoK. I feel like a standalone release of the blackstone fortress traitor guard (who also have gasmask heads) is more likely.
From a 2005 exclusive interview to old warpshadow forums.
Phil Kelly on Q1.
<snip>
Amazing, that's the most I've heard GW say about Tyranids... maybe ever. Thanks for posting that. It makes me sad that both of those guys are still around and we haven't seen a Tyranid in 7 years.
Didn’t realise it was 7 years. For my own clarity, and not saying anyone is fibbing, is that 7 years since any release, or is it not counting redone kits?
I thought GW had already released stand-alone kits for the BSF Chaos models but I can only find the Cultists from Ascension on the store currently.
If GW does a generic trench-coat IG with swappable heads to be used for Steel Legion, DKOK, and maybe some spare bits for Traitor Guardsmen that'd be swell.
Yes, they have an old one. Dual kit with shrikes could refresh them a bit, and of course give us shrikes but also there could be options for making 2 characters, 1 for raveners = red terror, and 1 for shrikes = parasite of mortrex. So 1 new kit would cover 4 options for nids.
From a 2005 exclusive interview to old warpshadow forums.
Phil Kelly on Q1.
<snip>
Amazing, that's the most I've heard GW say about Tyranids... maybe ever. Thanks for posting that. It makes me sad that both of those guys are still around and we haven't seen a Tyranid in 7 years.
Didn’t realise it was 7 years. For my own clarity, and not saying anyone is fibbing, is that 7 years since any release, or is it not counting redone kits?
The plastic Ravener kit is just over 11 years old, if I'm reading it right.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Didn’t realise it was 7 years. For my own clarity, and not saying anyone is fibbing, is that 7 years since any release, or is it not counting redone kits?
The Red Hobbit wrote: I thought GW had already released stand-alone kits for the BSF Chaos models but I can only find the Cultists from Ascension on the store currently.
The "Servants of the Abyss" box had the original enemies in (including the cultists) but it's been OOP for a while now.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I thought GW had already released stand-alone kits for the BSF Chaos models but I can only find the Cultists from Ascension on the store currently.
If GW does a generic trench-coat IG with swappable heads to be used for Steel Legion, DKOK, and maybe some spare bits for Traitor Guardsmen that'd be swell.
I'd also totally use trench-coat guardsmen with gasmasks as DG cultists.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The plastic Ravener kit is just over 11 years old, if I'm reading it right.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Didn’t realise it was 7 years. For my own clarity, and not saying anyone is fibbing, is that 7 years since any release, or is it not counting redone kits?
The Red Hobbit wrote: I thought GW had already released stand-alone kits for the BSF Chaos models but I can only find the Cultists from Ascension on the store currently.
If GW does a generic trench-coat IG with swappable heads to be used for Steel Legion, DKOK, and maybe some spare bits for Traitor Guardsmen that'd be swell.
I'd also totally use trench-coat guardsmen with gasmasks as DG cultists.
Or as GC, the only true cult in Imperium. Much better then some make believe for dead emperor or some vague interdimensional god.
NAVARRO wrote: Tyranids need a full design revamp, these "space dinosaurs" look dated and goofy and to be honest I have last worked on them around 2005 and they still look the same thing now in 2021. Boring & stagnant design really.
Make scary monsters instead and dump the dinos...
How exactly does this look like a space dinosaur.
You should ask that to the designers not me.
From a 2005 exclusive interview to old warpshadow forums.
Phil Kelly on Q1.
(would be nice someone hosted this somewhere since all old sites no longer online)
Spoiler:
Not that this indomitable duo of highly specialised, gene spliced design drones would need any introdution around here, but just to be sure:
Jes Goodwyn has been designing Games Workshop models for what seems like an eternity. Among a gazillion other things he has been the driving force behind the Tyranid design.
Phil Kelly should also be considered a loyal servant to the Hive as he has been playing with a Tyranid army for many years and is the author of the latest Tyranid Codex.
First off, We would like to thank the both of you on the behalf of the members of Warpshadow for granting us the honour of this exclusive interview. There are a lot of Tyranid players out there who have been waiting patiently for the re-working of the Tyranid list and model range. On their behalf, we would also like to thank you for putting so much hard work into revising the line and its codex.
Phil: Just doin’ our job Sir. Seriously though it was a lot of fun. Got one hell of a monster fix that year I can tell you…
Jes: Our pleasure, I’ve had to be patient also, but I’m getting better at it after the therapy. Anyway guys, there were several other guys on the team. Roberto Cirillo did a lot of concept work and visualisation. Mark Harrison did a lot of the sculpting [The lictor is my favourite of his] and of course the spirit of Mr Chambers was always with us.
Q1: What kind of goals did the both of you set for yourselves when you began reworking the Tyranids?
Jes: From my point of view it was really picking back up from where it had got to last time. We were really rushed at the end of the last Tyranid project and I don’t feel that we did some of the models justice. Since Phil will probably take this from the rules/background angle, I guess I’ll concentrate on the models [Can’t promise though]
Here we go: [I’ll use bullet points ‘cos I bet Phil will]
* Extend the range of plastics available. We get a chance to revisit plastics with each big release, and I had a grand plan from the last time, so it was a matter of dusting that off and seeing if it was still relevant
* To make them more ‘Tyraniddy’ rather than ‘Alienesque’. It had always been the intention to make them an expression of the Gribbly/B-movie alien Archetype, which the Alien, the Predator, the Thing, the Metaluna mutant are all expressions of rather than being archetypes themselves. I also wanted to play up the Reptilian/Dinosaur/Crustacean elements to get rid of the ‘insect’ tag, Tyranids should look like an amalgamation of lots of different species, you shouldn’t be able to pigeonhole them easily [The original brief for them at the time of Rogue Trader was for 6-limbed, bio-engineered dinosaurs in space]
* To continue to make them feel that they are all part of one race, by extending the visual elements that had been established in the previous plastics, and using consistent textures and morphology
* To remake as many of the previous designs that we weren’t happy with as the deadlines allowed
* To reintroduce some of the elements of the 2nd ed ‘nids that had got lost, and that I felt gave them much of their ‘niddy character [see above] • To carry on the ‘master plan’ that Andy and I had worked on in the past There were a whole load of individual goals for specific models, but these are the big themes.
Phil: That’s one hell of a question. I think I’ll just set out the major goals rather than go into detail or I’ll be here all day. OK, here’s my points:
* Ensure that 40K Tyranid armies look like we portray them in our background and fiction. There are far too many lists out there trying to get the most out of the mutation rules, ie taking a bare minimum of species and cramming as many rending claws in there as possible. That’s not what the Tyranids should be about.
* Make sure the middleweight Tyranids get back into the fray – Warriors, Lictors, Zoanthropes and Raveners were being left on the shelf and armies (including my own) consisted of only the little guys and the really big guys.
* Make good on the promise that you can field lots of different styles of Tyranid army, all effective in their own right – we now have at least six effective and distinct army styles available to Tyranid players. These are the Godzilla army, the Critter swarm, the Shooty army, the Warrior army, the Flying Circus and the Combined Arms force. Not bad from one Codex. As to which is the most efficient, only time (and a lot of gribbling) will tell. I have my bets placed.
* Make an off-the-shelf main list army a competitive option without customising every damn thing in the list.
* Make all broods effective in their own way and correctly costed.
* Remove the ‘individuality’ implied by mutants in broods and special characters.
* Move the Tyranid narrative forward with Hive Fleet Leviathan.
* Do Andy Chambers proud.
There are many more, but on with the show.
Q2:. What, if any, inspiration did you draw from previous incarnations of the Tyranids?
Phil: The background from the second edition Tyranid book was top quality stuff, from the pen of Mr. Chambers himself. So I nicked almost all of it, like the shameless magpie I am. With a few modifications, of course…we had a very strict directive from Rick to include a massive chunk of background.
Jes: Miniatures wise, I wanted to recapture some of the distinctiveness of 2 nd Ed, but with the models updated to fit in with the Tyranid visual style that we began to develop in 3 rd. In particular I wanted the Hive Tyrant to be closer to the rest of the Tyranids than a certain movie icon, and to get back some of the dynamism of the 2 nd ed Lictor
Q3: We have heard tell of a new addition to the Tyranid list. Can either of you comment on what inspired this new addition?
Jes: Ah, the Broodlord. The nature of the genestealers is that they are the Tyranid species most prone to being mutable by their very nature. We kicked around a lot of possibilities based around the ‘stealers, the Broodlord just seemed to fit the bill for the list.
Phil: We were intending to do the Broodlord as a special character, about whom we intend to remain irritatingly quiet. But he made it in as an HQ choice instead. He is an evolution of the genestealer background, which has always been a favourite of mine.
Q4: Have there been any plans to resurrect the infamous Genestealer Cult in the form of a codex or White Dwarf article with rules for them?
Phil: Ah, that old chestnut. We do get a lot of people asking, several quite highly placed in the company, and myself and Jes are interested in revisiting them. They will never get their own Codex – we just don’t think they are all that appropriate for the battlefield (after all that’s what the main Tyranid list is for) and are more suited to smaller games like Inquisitor and Killteam. I wanted the main 40K list to be 100% alien, and not have any human auxiliary stuff – it would dilute the alien nature of the Tyranid army.
Jes; What he said, but I think that they would make a logical adversary for the Alienhunters. Q5. After the Tyranids were released in third edition, Jes made certain prophetic statements about the possibility of a plastic carnifex and new plastic Genestealers in the Tyranids' future. Now we see that these prophetic statements have come to pass. We are all happy that the Tyranids have been revised so quickly, but it would be hard to imagine that the most highly-evolved army in 40K has reached the end of its evolution. Would either of you care to say anything about possible future developments for the Tyranid story line/model line/rule set?
Jes: Almost like it was planned………………….;-]. I think there is a lot more mileage in themed armies, extending Phil’s range of different styles, a winged army perhaps. Be the perfect excuse to do Gargoyles in plastic, wouldn’t it? More plastics would also mean more biomorphs, which would mean extending the choice for some troop types. Maybe some ‘genofixed’ species might become mutable, as the Hive plays with new ideas.
Q6: We have heard exciting rumors of an upcoming campaign involving Tyranids, can you confirm that and, if so, can you give us more details?
Phil: There is an upcoming 40K campaign for next summer, and Tyranids will be taking part. That’s all you’re getting I’m afraid!
Q7: Jes, How did Games Workshop decide which of the new Tyranid models would be plastic and which wouldn't?
Jes: Plastic is usually reserved for troops that you need lots of or big things that are impractical to do in metal. This is sort of changing as new technology makes an impact, but we are usually given a certain amount of ‘frames’ to play with, the Carnifex took up three! [Actually, I just whined about a plastic Carnifex until they gave in,]
Q8: Phil, what kind of new strategic avenues will be opened up to Tyranid players by the new codex?
Phil: As described above, there are a lot more army styles available to the Tyranid players out there.Over playtesting I got the bejeezus shot out of me by a shooty army fielded by Alessio Cavatore, they are a lot of fun. I am a recent convert to the way of the Tyranid Warrior with Deathspitter and Rending Claws. Tyranid weapons have become a lot scarier, so expect to see more shootiness in Tyranid armies. Also, as I have harped on about on more than one occasion, the Tyranid player can now field ‘purer’ armies – with a Broodlord as HQ you can field a viable army of little guys without a monstrous creature in sight, or go to the other end of the spectrum and field an 8 monstrous creature army. Of course you’d have to be a hardcore nutcase to go for that, eh Marco? <grin>
Jes: L’avenue des Champs Elysee.
Q9: Are there any plans in the works to release a "Collecting Tyranids" hobby book like the one released for space marines? Will any of the Tyranid concept art work be included?
Phil: I would be very, very surprised if there wasn’t one of these published in the next few years, but it’s not us lot that produce those things so I can’t say for sure.
Jes: As Phil says, not our call, but Roberto and I would love to get more of the concept work published.
Q10: Jes, Phil, what kind of cool new projects would you want to work on if you got to continue working on the Tyranid line?
Jes: More variations for the Tyrant, each Tyrant should have its own distinctive crest, and there are extra tails, weapons etc that we could do. A Winged Tyrant [‘cos I worked out how it would work, despite the fact that people say it won’t take wings] Plastic Gargoyles, Bigger Monsters,…………
Phil: Hmm … bigger gribblies, a Tyranid-centric campaign, and an evolving Leviathan storyline in Codex: Alien Hunters.
Q11: Are there any left-field ideas you can share with us that didn't make it into the revised Tyranids?
Phil: Several ideas we talked about didn’t make it to the final cut, but nothing we do here is truly wasted – we may get them back into the process and refine them later down the line. I was keen to do a gravid Hive Tyrant that spews Rippers from its womb as a special character, but then I came to my senses – having individual characters for the Tyranids kind of defeats the point – they are characterized by their lack of individuality. I’ve always liked that angle that each Tyranid is but a single cell in a massive super-organism. Cells generally don’t have names.
Jes; I know what Phil is saying, but I can see special versions of monsters being relevant for campaigns. In fact now that the mutation rules are subsumed into the list maybe ‘Mutation’ is a more appropriate name for Tyranid ‘Special Characters’.
Q12: What do you think tournament and competitive players will look forward to most?
Phil: Viable middleweight creatures, fleet-of-claw genestealers, venom cannons that can cause penetrating hits on open-topped vehicles (bye bye land speeder squadron), Lictors that do not need maps and cannon fodder that can shoot worth a damn. Oh yes, and the Broodlord. There’s a new guy in town and his Initiative is better than yours.
Q13: We're seeing the Carnifex - with its broad range of upgrades, expanded force organisational roles and extensive modeling options - become a more prevalent and adaptable workhorse in the Tyranid force. What drove this design decision, and how do you see it shaping the way players build their armies?
Phil: Most of my work on the Carnifex was driven by the glut of options on the plastic kit and the prep work done by my esteemed colleague Mr. Goodwin. Over to you Jes
Jes: Like I said, I whined a lot……. We had always talked about a tank style piece for the ‘nids, but no-one liked the idea of the old ‘Slug Tanks’, visually they were just dull. I wanted the ‘fex to be a combination of dreadnought and tank, with lots of chances to customize, and as many biomorphs as we could get on the frames. I wanted to revisit the Monstrous Arms frame to bring the sculpting into line with the other plastics. I wanted to get an image out of my head that had been niggling away for several years. I wanted it to have that ‘wow’ factor. I wanted it bellowing, not grinning. I wanted a LIVING ENGINE OF DESTRUCTION dammit! [Like I said, I whined a lot] Andy C and myself had come up with several ‘breeds’ of Carnifex very early into the process, it was up to poor old Phil to make sense out the madness.
Q14: Shouldn't the Broodlord rather be called Patriarch ? Is there a difference ? Is there an additional model for the Patriarch in the Tyranids future, say in a campaign?
Phil: The Broodlord is a completely new species. I always think of him as the Olympic athlete of the Tyranid race – tough, fast, and strong. He’s at the peak of physical fitness for purpose, that purpose being to smack seven shades of Grox dung out of any enemy characters that come his way, of course. I always think of Patriarchs as more like a king than a warrior, probably because of that classic model of the Patriarch on his throne with Magus attendant. Always reminded me of Don Corleone, that chap.
Jes: No, Yes, Maybe, but not necessarily in that order ;-]
Q15: With the Black Library turning out some really impressive background books is there any chance of seeing something like that for Tyranids ?
Jes: Their call, I’m afraid, as I’ve said, both Roberto and I would love to get some more drawings into print.
Q16: Very nice that the Zoats made a short return and that the background on Kryptman's actions was expanded. Were there any wild background ideas that didn't make it into the book?
Phil: Zoats? What Zoats? I have no idea what you mean. Please report to Redistrubution Block Alpha-92 at your earliest opportunity.
Jes ; You might call them Zoats, we couldn’t possibly comment ;-]
There was one wild background idea that didn’t really get its day in the sun – that the Nids ate the Squats. They had to join the queue behind the Orks and the Inquisition!
Jes; Don’t listen to him, he’s from Essex.
Many thanks to Jes & Phil for taking the time to run through this veritable parcours of questions as well as to the infamous Warpshadow Gestalt Phage, Teatime and Mr. Pink. T`was a lot of fun.
The original brief for Tyranids might have been Space Dinos, but they haven't lent into that since that Rogue Trader era, with 2nd edition being a transition to a more bug like theme.
From a 2005 exclusive interview to old warpshadow forums.
Phil Kelly on Q1.
<snip>
Amazing, that's the most I've heard GW say about Tyranids... maybe ever. Thanks for posting that. It makes me sad that both of those guys are still around and we haven't seen a Tyranid in 7 years.
Didn’t realise it was 7 years. For my own clarity, and not saying anyone is fibbing, is that 7 years since any release, or is it not counting redone kits?
7 years since any relase
While the Genestealer Cults aren't technically part of the Tyranid codex they are functional allies and tied together intimately in the lore. This was clearly the focus of the "Tyranid" design resources over that seven year period, and an attempt to add a human scale aspect to the most alien army in the game. It may not be the preference of some Nid fans, but it added ~20 new kits, and many more datasheets that can be combined with existing Tyranid forces.
I'm sure many Eldar fans would kill for a new Exodite codex that similarly enriched the lore and options on the table.
What if KT2E has a much tighter focus like SWA, but with the new Necromunda/9E hybrid rules. I don't mean Necromunda gang rules, but much tighter model choices like the Rogue Trader set or like Warcry rather than the kitchen sink that KT eventually became.
I'm sure many Eldar fans would kill for a new Exodite codex that similarly enriched the lore and options on the table.
I doubt there is any here that do not want Eldar getting tons of new releases but it does not change that nids fans, who want to play nids not GC or a mixed force, would also like to have some new toys. Everyone and their dog is getting a plastic LoW but not the monster army?
While the Genestealer Cults aren't technically part of the Tyranid codex they are functional allies and tied together intimately in the lore. This was clearly the focus of the "Tyranid" design resources over that seven year period, and an attempt to add a human scale aspect to the most alien army in the game. It may not be the preference of some Nid fans, but it added ~20 new kits, and many more datasheets that can be combined with existing Tyranid forces.
I'm sure many Eldar fans would kill for a new Exodite codex that similarly enriched the lore and options on the table.
That's not really fair or true. The core of an Exodite force would be, well, Eldar. They'd have different mounts and weapons and stuff but they're still Elves. And I mean, as an Eldar player, I will say that if GW put out a ton of Exodites, that'd be pretty cool, but I want new core Craftworlds stuff more, and Exodites don't satiate that.
With Nids, you don't even share that common core. Yeah, GSC are obviously coming from Genestealers, but aesthetically, they're really not like Tyranids. It's a bunch of humans. And even if you try to make the same argument I made above, it's not like the Genestealer distills everything about Nids; Nids have several aesthetics that Genestealers (and GSC by extension) don't encompass.
The obvious comparison that always gets made is Guardsmen and Marines, and it's a good one. Yeah, GW released a lot of Marines and they fight with Guard, but it doesn't exactly quench the thirst of the Guard player. Same thing with Nids.
Well the Tyranids also devour their own forces at the end of a conflict. A Tyranid invasion is nothing more that a planetary scale digestion process after all.
Genestealers and the hybrids have their part to play, but they are only another living cog in the digestive process.
Yes, they have an old one. Dual kit with shrikes could refresh them a bit, and of course give us shrikes but also there could be options for making 2 characters, 1 for raveners = red terror, and 1 for shrikes = parasite of mortrex. So 1 new kit would cover 4 options for nids.
I'd honestly be surprised if the Red Terror was released to match the scale of the old model (and thus, by and large, Raveners), which was ridiculous for what it was meant to do even back then. No way that model would swallow a human or ork or Marine whole, and its artwork and background depicted it much larger. I expect that if there is a new Red Terror, it'll be Trygon sized or a bit larger to account for its defining ability.
Especially now that GW isn't just able but has shown to be perfectly comfortable scaling up things to the size they were meant to be, like greater daemons.
This month’s issue is a veritable trove of wonders for Warhammer 40,000 players. The reason? Flashpoint: Octarius. Now, some of you might recognise that name from a certain Warhammer Preview Online taking place this Saturday – Flashpoint, meanwhile, details Hive Fleet Leviathan’s arrival in the Octarius Sector and, spoiler alert, it’s about as friendly as you’d expect. Luckily, Salamanders successor Chapter the Dark Krakens are there to meet the threat, and July’s White Dwarf contains an awesome mission and rules with which you can recreate the engagement. There are even datasheets for two Dark Krakens named characters: Captain Krijeni Luceior and Lexicanium Paraon Uari.
Oh, and did we mention the mission takes place under the sea? It does. It takes place under the sea.
Can water quench the flames of this Salamander successor Chapter’s wrath? Well, there’s only one way to find out.
It is pretty funny that Octarius is, essentially, a Tyranid v Ork conflict, they're introducing a whole new line of Orks, and there will be books about the conflict.
And then the first look into this conflict gives us new rules for... Space Marines.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: GW: This is a White Dwarf issue about Tyranids! Woo!
Also GW: TYRANIDS GET NOTHING! IT'S ALL MARINES! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR!
How about a trade. All about the Dark Krakens marine chapter, but with datasheets for a pair of named tyranid characters.
To be fair, I can't blame him (this time). Reading Nids and Nostalgia Reign Supreme and then the >10 years old "news" that Tyranids invade Octarius. Of course, a random Space Marine chapter is there to stop them. With characters and a special mission.
Come on...the headline and then half of the short text about the ... Dark Krakens? I guess I'm not alone in expecting rehashed Tyranid fluff from years ago with superspecialawesome things about that Marine chapter. I hope I'm wrong...
It can't be rehashed, the Dark Krakens are brand new!
I would expect it to be all new Tyranid fluff focused on how awesome the Dark Krakens are and how they save the planet from the nids but are wiped out to the man. Because GW only knows how to write nids one way, and thats by writing about Space Marines prevailing while being brought down to the last man standing.
Reminds me of the book Mortis which has zero Legio Mortis characters and is entirely about Legio Ignatum, a crippled White Scar and a time-travelling perpetual.
I would expect it to be all new Tyranid fluff focused on how awesome the Dark Krakens are and how they save the planet from the nids but are wiped out to the man. Because GW only knows how to write nids one way, and thats by writing about Space Marines prevailing while being brought down to the last man standing.
The catch 22 Spaze marines.... best selling range... most updated and supported range = best selling range.
By the looks of it nids will be lucky to come out with 1 new mini... No wonder they dont sell well in comparison with Marines.
Like I said if you have done Tyranids decades ago they are for the most part still the same models, how is that something that will appeal to Tyranid fans, specially when they see AoS producing full new armies and kits at the speed of light.
For me to come back to Nids I would need a fresh redesign and full range revamp.
Siegfriedfr wrote: GW: "Tyranids in the spotlight in the next White Dwarf!"
Also GW : "Tons of new rules for salamanders to kill tyranids. zip for tyranids."
It’s almost as if Tyranids are
A) due a new Codex
B) Likely to take part in Warzone Octarius, given they’re an inherent part of that bit of the background.
Will they get more than the model we’ve been teased in the Rumour Engine? Possibly, possibly not. But we have seen GW updating Xenos races of late. So there’s at least some indicators either way.
NAVARRO wrote: The catch 22 Spaze marines.... best selling range... most updated and supported range = best selling range.
By the looks of it nids will be lucky to come out with 1 new mini... No wonder they dont sell well in comparison with Marines.
Like I said if you have done Tyranids decades ago they are for the most part still the same models, how is that something that will appeal to Tyranid fans, specially when they see AoS producing full new armies and kits at the speed of light.
For me to come back to Nids I would need a fresh redesign and full range revamp.
Rumour engine indicates at least two new models... which is exactly why I think this weekend's update will contain exactly nothing new for Tyranids.
Instead I think it's more likely that this expansion book has token Nid rules (such as codex supplement content for Hive Fleet Leviathan) while they focus on new models for Orks & Krieg.
Then later on we get a new Tyranid codex with multiple models, possibly alongside Octarius book 2.
Nostromodamus wrote: Reminds me of the book Mortis which has zero Legio Mortis characters and is entirely about Legio Ignatum, a crippled White Scar and a time-travelling perpetual.
Mortis were the primary antagonist in the book, however. Since the core of the story was a massive battle between giant robots rather than foot-slogging troops or super-powered God-level Primarchs or anything, I think the lack of "characters" or even characterisation worked in the books' favour.
Besides which, I imagine the title served a dual purpose, being both metaphorical and literal in that, while Legio Mortis served as the primary antagonist, it could also be that the clinical meaning of the word was being implied, too (ie: rigor mortis, the third stage of death). Considering the bad guy forces had actual "resurrected"/possessed/zombie titans then this interpretation makes sense.
NAVARRO wrote: The catch 22 Spaze marines.... best selling range... most updated and supported range = best selling range.
By the looks of it nids will be lucky to come out with 1 new mini... No wonder they dont sell well in comparison with Marines.
Like I said if you have done Tyranids decades ago they are for the most part still the same models, how is that something that will appeal to Tyranid fans, specially when they see AoS producing full new armies and kits at the speed of light.
For me to come back to Nids I would need a fresh redesign and full range revamp.
Rumour engine indicates at least two new models... which is exactly why I think this weekend's update will contain exactly nothing new for Tyranids.
Instead I think it's more likely that this expansion book has token Nid rules (such as codex supplement content for Hive Fleet Leviathan) while they focus on new models for Orks & Krieg.
Then later on we get a new Tyranid codex with multiple models, possibly alongside Octarius book 2.
Yeah thats what I'm thinking/hoping too- perhaps a Nidvember again? I hope they keep bringing back the creepy weirdness - the Toxicrene, Haruspex and to an extent the Zoanthrope/venomthrope did this.
I hope we get a teaser for them on Saturday.. not holding my breath but it would be nice..
xttz wrote: The catch 22 Spaze marines.... best selling range... most updated and supported range = best selling range.
By the looks of it nids will be lucky to come out with 1 new mini... No wonder they dont sell well in comparison with Marines.
Like I said if you have done Tyranids decades ago they are for the most part still the same models, how is that something that will appeal to Tyranid fans, specially when they see AoS producing full new armies and kits at the speed of light.
For me to come back to Nids I would need a fresh redesign and full range revamp.
Same, altho some disagree, i think most of Tyranids design cues looks dated, and i ain't investing a penny unless they get a major redesign of everything troop/elites related. Even the tyrant/swarmlord could use some help.
But a total redesign most likely won't happen since they have drop-fed big monsters based on old aesthetics in the 2010, so they need to stick to dorsal chimneys and insectoid look.
What are certainly due for a redesign/new kit are:
- raveners/red terror (strong rumor engine hint)
- lictor/deathleaper (strong rumor engine hint)
- biovore/pyrovore (those 2 are due a dual kit for ages)
And since all the recent revamps involved troops, i bet the -gants/gaunts will be redesigned as well. Not betting money on warriors, they've been rekitted twice already.
If they follow their own trend, they'll want to add a brand new type of troops and a HQ that goes with it. Not sure that's what i'd want... altho new stuff is always nice, its not like Nids lack unit diversity, its more like their stats suck.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Oh right. I forgot my Space Wolves could have successors now regardless of their cursed geneseed and the daemonic machinations of Magnus the Red.
Because money.
I haven't read the latest books, but aren't the Wolfspear all 'original' 30k Fenrisian recruits?
To add to the Tyranid discussion: despite not having new models since 7 years I'd say their range was/is in a pretty good state with most things plastic. However, I really dislike the tyranid Design and hope if they ever redo them large scale not a single model holding its bioweapon in its hands is left, because that was always a stupid concept and still looks bad.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: However, I really dislike the tyranid Design and hope if they ever redo them large scale not a single model holding its bioweapon in its hands is left, because that was always a stupid concept and still looks bad.
Well, technically they are not holding them, they are joined with them being symbiotic organisms, but I know what you mean Despite really liking current nids I would have no objection for such a change. For example, I really like the Exocrine or Tyrranofex with Fleshborer Hive because their weapons look like natural part of their bodies rather than something joined forcefully.
I feel like redesigning the Tyranids would just result in their current fanbase getting mad, because their design is probably the reason they're fans in the first place
Sgt. Cortez wrote: However, I really dislike the tyranid Design and hope if they ever redo them large scale not a single model holding its bioweapon in its hands is left, because that was always a stupid concept and still looks bad.
Well, technically they are not holding them, they are joined with them being symbiotic organisms, but I know what you mean Despite really liking current nids I would have no objection for such a change. For example, I really like the Exocrine or Tyrranofex with Fleshborer Hive because their weapons look like natural part of their bodies rather than something joined forcefully.
Symbiotic weapons make perfect sense for a lot of the 'troop'-type units. Being able to swap out weapons to adapt to a given threat saves the Hive Fleet a substantial amount of energy over needing to generate entirely new genotypes from scratch.
The Tyranid design is also just fine. Older Tyranid kits don't have the level of detail that current GW kits have, so sure, I could see how some modernized kits would be cool. But the overall concept is still good. It's the rules that have profoundly lacked inspiration...for YEARS.
I too dislike that they hold symbiotic bio-guns in their hands. For a while I had a 100% melee nid army for this reason - it didn't really play very well lol. Eventually I expanded it to include things that had "integrated" weapons, i.e. biovores, trygon bio-electric spines, carnifex carapace spine cluster things, etc. It still didn't play very well.
What was the last one released? The Hive Crone? Plastic guard dual kit? Maleceptor?
Has it really been that long? Jeez.
The last Tyranid relase was the trio of kits for Toxicrene/Malaceptor, Tyrannocyte/Sporocyst, and Venomthrope/Zoanthrope/Neurotrophe + the Broodlord.
In the winter of 2014.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I feel like redesigning the Tyranids would just result in their current fanbase getting mad, because their design is probably the reason they're fans in the first place
Also if they redesign it won't be new termagaunts etc. Rather new unit leaving old ones there slowly nerfed to death.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "The Tyranid model range is in a really good place. Also, they should redesign the entire Tyranid model range."
What???
As a Tyranid player who's been invested in the army off-and-on since 2001, I'd put it this way:
1. The army's nearly all plastic. This is great. Can't complain. There are only a handful of obnoxious resin models (primarily the Lictor, Pyrovore, and Biovore) and it wouldn't take much effort to update them.
2. Some of the older designs are stylistically dated or showing mold age and could use an update. Gaunts in particular are very static and lack detail, particularly in their split-head design. Genestealers have awful mold lines. Carnifexes, as much as I love the kit, don't assemble super cleanly, needing clamps or filler to get the vents right.
It's a very similar situation to Orks, really. So basically I'm in the situation where I won't complain if all we get is a dual-build Pyrovore/Biovore and a new Lictor, but I'd be over the moon if the older kits get an update too.
Why not? They literally just did it to the Necrons.
That is a rule redesign, not a miniatures one. I didn't think I had to specify that I was referring to the miniatures when the discussion in the last pages have been about the miniatures, but it seems I was naive.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "The Tyranid model range is in a really good place. Also, they should redesign the entire Tyranid model range."
What???
It worked for marines, stormcast...why not tyranids?
I can't tell if dakka would be pro or against Primarids.
It would make sense that if they ate their Vitamins (Primaris Marines), then they should grow bigger and stronger.
I mean, if any faction is going to re-engineer their forces from the ground up, it would be the nids, That's half their shtick. Heck, write a short story about the nids getting a taste of Primaris or Custodes DNA and boom, mass roll-out of the upgraded DNA to all the low-level nids.
That or we could see what in the world Tiamat's doing with it's tower and we potentially get a bunch of nid and Chaos releases.
I don't think everyone is on the same page regarding what 'redesign' means.
The newest Necrons showed some design evolution, but the core Necron design principles are still there and go back to 2002. Or technically earlier, since they start on this stuff well in advance of their release.
Why not? They literally just did it to the Necrons.
That is a rule redesign, not a miniatures one. I didn't think I had to specify that I was referring to the miniatures when the discussion in the last pages have been about the miniatures, but it seems I was naive.
Tyran wrote: I think the issue is the idea of redesigning the whole army.
That's just not viable, for many different reasons.
Why not? They literally just did it to the Necrons.
Except, their entire aesthetic is the same, and the new kits fit perfectly with the old ones. That's not a redesign, that's just making new kits. Even the Warriors look the same, just posed diffrently and with some variety added to the individual sculpts.
Compare the current and directly previous Necron Warriors to 2nd ed ones, that's how a redesign looks like.
catbarf wrote: As a Tyranid player who's been invested in the army off-and-on since 2001, I'd put it this way:
As a Tyranid player who's been invested in the army since before we had a "2" at the start of the year count, I can say that I was talking about the aesthetics of the range (there have been a couple of calls to redesign how 'Nids look), rather than the technical limitations.
Of course the Gaunts are an old kit. The two piece heads are just horrific. A new kit would be an improvement, except that they'd probably be larger, there'd be less of them per box, and they'd be more expensive. But I don't want them to radically redesign how 'Nids look.
catbarf wrote: It's a very similar situation to Orks, really. So basically I'm in the situation where I won't complain if all we get is a dual-build Pyrovore/Biovore and a new Lictor, but I'd be over the moon if the older kits get an update too.
I don't think 'Nids are in a similar situation to Orks at all. Orks have ancient metal/FineCost-filled holes in their line with units that have not been updated in years and years. Redoing plastics is one thing, but I'd argue that Orks have a greater need than the 'Nids do. Yes, I want a plastic Lictor, but I'd much rather plastic Kommandos and Tankbusters.
Most of the Tyranid range still holds up imo. Lictor needs to be redone for sure. If plastic DKoK is in the pipeline and they look good I'm in major trouble.
Goose LeChance wrote: Most of the Tyranid range still holds up imo. Lictor needs to be redone for sure. If plastic DKoK is in the pipeline and they look good I'm in major trouble.
If they actually do plastic DKOK before the Catachan box gets updated they are really smoking something strong. I doubt the carnifex will ever see an update, its the land raider of tyranids. Gaunts, stealers, and aforementioned resin kits would be cool to see freshened up.
Tyranids have seen multiple updates, if the design team is inspired to do something new im all for it. Nothing worse for the quality of a mini than the designer feeling like they are rehashing dated work.
Also i think it is time they made a new type of guard the main plastic kits. For the same reason as above, the starship trooper cadians and 80s muscle man catachans dont inspire me anymore. I used to love the catchans, but the plastic cadian helmets irked me when they came out. I want to make an imperial guard army so bad and i will be completely drawn in by something like the gaunts ghosts or trenchcoat guard (preferably with a gas maskless option)
It's not going to happen, especially with all the great Necromunda and 30k stuff they're churning out, but part of me wonders if something is going to happen with FW.
FW no longer produces:
*DoK *Chaos Dwarfs
GW, meanwhile is releasing:
*New 30k marines (and maybe a tank?)
*DoK *And are very, very heavily hinting toward Chaos Dwarfs.
GaroRobe wrote: It's not going to happen, especially with all the great Necromunda and 30k stuff they're churning out, but part of me wonders if something is going to happen with FW.
They just admit/publicly clarify its an internal division for management purposes (accounting, team separation, etc) and call it a day.
/shrug
While historically it mattered a lot, I'm not sure the separation of Forge World rules/models from Games Workshop rules/models is a useful one.
It seems a gatekeeping tool on the customer end ('you can't/shouldn't use _that_') than anything GW actually cares about, and probably negatively affects sales more than anything (other than prices)
Midnightdeathblade wrote: If they actually do plastic DKOK before the Catachan box gets updated they are really smoking something strong.
You think so? I've long thought that it would make sense for GW to do two plastic offerings for Guard- some generic military guys (ie Cadians), and then another regiment that leans hard into grimdark greatcoat gas mask weirdness. I was specifically thinking of Jes Goodwin's well known sketch, but Death Korps could fit the bill too.
I mean, with the Catachan characters I imagine they have to be revisiting them sooner or later, but when an entire Guard regiment amounts to three boxes it doesn't seem outlandish to do a couple sporadically.
Fingers crossed that they're cooking up a "WarCry" style game focused on Guard regiments that'll lead to half a dozen new kits! Silly as it sounds, it strikes me as a decent way to attract historical gamers who might be interested in dipping their toes in 40K and the potential audience seems larger than that for Cypher Lords.
H.B.M.C. wrote: With the recent limited edition plastic Catachan stuff, I was certain that it was a precursor to a new Catachan range.
If it turns out to be Death Korps I won't be disappointed, just very surprised.
if the KT rumours I read are true, the DK Kill Team will be nothing to build a 40k army from
it is said that it will be much more like Warcry, boxed Teams without options but therefore more niche factions that are not in the main range
kodos wrote: if the KT rumours I read are true, the DK Kill Team will be nothing to build a 40k army from
Would it not be like all but one of the other KT boxes so far - just regular sprues put into a box - rather than the singular KT box that had unique models in it (the RT one)?
I'd've thought it'd just be regular models behind a time-gate/paywall ala Heavy Intercessors and Flayed Ones. What points to it not being that, specifically?
Waycry represents GW's end goal for skirmish games in its purest form.
Set models with set equipment with set terrain set ups. Everything is 100% controlled by the models, with no variation possible, let alone allowed within the rules.
I am certain that if they could redo Necromunda in such a way, they would.
kodos wrote: if the KT rumours I read are true, the DK Kill Team will be nothing to build a 40k army from
Would it not be like all but one of the other KT boxes so far - just regular sprues put into a box - rather than the singular KT box that had unique models in it (the RT one)?
I'd've thought it'd just be regular models behind a time-gate/paywall ala Heavy Intercessors and Flayed Ones. What points to it not being that, specifically?
rumours, take them with a grain of salt, but I can see them doing the dedicated KT boxes as "put in some regular sprues of old models" did not work well compared to dedicated sprues like in Warcry, specially as 40k now has its own rules (again) for small games with the regular models
it also allows GW to add stuff like the RT, Death Korp, Catachan, Squats, Kroot etc. to the game without taking care about them later except for adding a Datasheet for 40k, while a full new range for 40k is a much higher risk
so a boxed game with dedicated models, which can also be used in 40k, makes more sense than another set of rules were you can use your 40k models
at least from a selling point at the first can act as gateway game while the other is just for those that already bought into the game
another point is that the "out of the box with no options" fits the new style of unit building GW is doing
kodos wrote: rumours, take them with a grain of salt, but I can see them doing the dedicated KT boxes as "put in some regular sprues of old models" did not work well compared to dedicated sprues like in Warcry, specially as 40k now has its own rules (again) for small games with the regular models
That is a good point. KT always seemed like an afterthought, and when they did those "HQ" boxes where it was either a big discount or a major mark-up because they put anything and everything in there all at the same price point I imagine that did them no favours either. And that's before they "re-released" the terrain boxes for a higher price with less terrain in them.
kodos wrote: it also allows GW to add stuff like the RT, Death Korp, Catachan, Squats, Kroot etc. to the game without taking care about them later except for adding a Datasheet for 40k, while a full new range for 40k is a much higher risk
That's also a good point. It could lead to them further developing things that get a positive response, but as I find myself saying more and more these days, GW never misses and opportunity to miss an opportunity, so chances are any spike in popularity would pass over their heads.
kodos wrote: so a boxed game with dedicated models, which can also be used in 40k, makes more sense than another set of rules were you can use your 40k models at least from a selling point at the first can act as gateway game while the other is just for those that already bought into the game
That's the cynical (and therefore far more likely) angle to that.
kodos wrote: another point is that the "out of the box with no options" fits the new style of unit building GW is doing
Honestly while I would miss the customization of gear if KT became more like Warcry, I might actually play it…..because unlike KT, Warcry is actually fun. While the game may not have a ton of depth, the scenario cards make for a ton of options of game play, and the short turn limits actually make you focus on objectives. Great beer and pretzel game.
As opposed to spending an hour and a half trying to watch two shooting KTs flesh wound each other to death.
Makes a huge difference when you make a game it’s own rules, rather than just modify the rules for an entire different scale of game.
Warcry is one of the best games GW has done in recent years
mainly because it was designed as a game and not a band-aid to sell something else or to fill a gab in the line up
KT, same as Apo was much more of a testing ground for 40k, and like a market screening to check if it is worth to compete with others on that niche or not and which rules they can use for 40k
I personally found the latest KT not very good, other Skirmish games like Deadzone or Infinity do it better while for 40kKT the older rules or even Shadow War was more fun
I like the KT rules, as all GW games have their bugs and unbalances but with the scoring systems made by tournament players, it becomes a very competitive game.
Although that said, I don't care if the core rules change, with a system of alternate activations type warcry or necromunda, spending actions. But I wouldn't want it to be as simple as warcry, since I see KT as a game with a lot of potential for tournaments. (and more for those of us who don't like to play with 100+ miniatures)
While plastic DKOK in a Kill Team starter are obviously a big deal, I'm also interested in what sort of terrain they'd bundle with that, especially given that the entire "Sector Imperialis" line that debuted with the original Kill Team starter is already OOP
lord_blackfang wrote: While plastic DKOK in a Kill Team starter are obviously a big deal, I'm also interested in what sort of terrain they'd bundle with that, especially given that the entire "Sector Imperialis" line that debuted with the original Kill Team starter is already OOP
Holy gak I forgot all about that.
Yeah, screw the Kriegers. To hell with Kommandos. Show us the terrain!!!
lord_blackfang wrote: While plastic DKOK in a Kill Team starter are obviously a big deal, I'm also interested in what sort of terrain they'd bundle with that, especially given that the entire "Sector Imperialis" line that debuted with the original Kill Team starter is already OOP
Holy gak I forgot all about that.
Yeah, screw the Kriegers. To hell with Kommandos. Show us the terrain!!!
Would you look at that. Two special rule previews. Seems that these new Beast Snaggas have some additional ways of causing Mortal Wounds. That's going to make them a powerhouse on the tabletop, as MWs are extremely rare these days.
Whoever noticed the bone ponytail was part of the new warboss, you have great eyes.
It's cool to see the Painboss has options. I know the first head wasn't super popular, but it was based off one of the old metal orks, which is cool. He is leaps and bounds better than the current plastic painboy imo. That model's head and proportions are just weird.
I hope we do indeed get some new KT news on the saturday stream. And plastic DKoK would make me start a small guard army for sure! My vision of the IoM is forever tainted by the old lore, which depicts it as something not unlike the Termight from 2000AD. Makes playing against them fun, humans no longer being the good guys.. Faceless gasmask wearing guard fits that vision perfec!
As for the models being specifically tied to just KT, I don't think it'll happen but I wouldn't mind it. I already think KT should become a much more individualistic affair than it currently is, and just rehashing regular 40K minis is a bit bland tbh.
However, I still want as many factions for KT as possible. Variety is the spice of life, and its fun collecting small squads of models from different factions, as opposed to pouring hundreds of buckazoids into a 2000pt army.
Maybe I'm stupid, but I just realized the new Painboss hand is a giant snake head. Syringe fangs, etc. Very fitting. I wonder if it's actually a giant skull, its kind of hard to tell since their armor is sometimes white
GaroRobe wrote: Maybe I'm stupid, but I just realized the new Painboss hand is a giant snake head. Syringe fangs, etc. Very fitting. I wonder if it's actually a giant skull, its kind of hard to tell since their armor is sometimes white
The article called the bomb squig rider a gretchin. Is this an oversight or are snotlings not a thing anymore? That definitely looks like a snotling riding it.
Domandi wrote: The article called the bomb squig rider a gretchin. Is this an oversight or are snotlings not a thing anymore? That definitely looks like a snotling riding it.
WC often makes those little inconsistensies. They could just have it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
That's a nice Tyranid looking skull. Would be really cool to get a preview of some Nid models, but we haven't even gotten the preview for the boxset for Thousand Sons v GK yet.
Yeah I thought Ordo Xenos with that skull but it could well be for the animations - the article on warcom on Inquisition is connected with that.
On KT specific kits -I thought that was always a missed opportunity for GW to expand the variety within 40k without adding/updating full ranges. They could use it test the water for subfactions and since the design files are CAD they could always release full units later.
silverstu wrote: Yeah I thought Ordo Xenos with that skull but it could well be for the animations - the article on warcom on Inquisition is connected with that.
On KT specific kits -I thought that was always a missed opportunity for GW to expand the variety within 40k without adding/updating full ranges. They could use it test the water for subfactions and since the design files are CAD they could always release full units later.
Something sort of like Underworlds, though Warcry feels like a better example. They made eight chaos warbands for each of the realms, they could easily do something similar for different guard regiments (though hopefully with more kit variety than Warcry provides.)
I do remember there being some fluff in one of the KT books about black clad Inquisition Storm Trooper corpses found in the desert or something. Maybe we are getting an Ordos Xenos KT specific box like a Warcry one?
If we are indeed getting plastic DKoK (and especially grenadiers), plastic Ordos Xenos, and plastic Kommandos I would be extremely happy. Got to temper my expectations though. GW is probably just going to do a Pariah Nexus 2.0 and another named Inquisition character.
Sabotage! wrote: I do remember there being some fluff in one of the KT books about black clad Inquisition Storm Trooper corpses found in the desert or something. Maybe we are getting an Ordos Xenos KT specific box like a Warcry one?
If we are indeed getting plastic DKoK (and especially grenadiers), plastic Ordos Xenos, and plastic Kommandos I would be extremely happy. Got to temper my expectations though. GW is probably just going to do a Pariah Nexus 2.0 and another named Inquisition character.
I have 50 or so Krieg dudes from Ebay - but no weapon teams or characters outside of Krieg Commissars who both snapped their feet off thanks to FW casting with massive bubbles inside the resin*. More DKoK and Kommandos in a box and a huge Orks launch... I think GW wants me to give away all my AoS models to make room.
*100% legit, not Ebay, ordered from FW when the range first came out
I agree that once Killteam stopped being a game and turned into a paywall (nice term), that the game lost any credibility as a stand-alone product. The Inquisitor/ Geller pox set is what I think Killteam should have been all along. Instead, Boxed games flirted with greatness and flew too close to the sun and tumbled to the depths of mediocrity.
Billicus wrote: Oh no, they spoiled a 20 year old book? The horror
People are joining the hobby all the time and many of them are referred to Dan Abnett or ADB books to start with, there's nothing wrong with noting a spoiler to help out someone who may be starting the Eisenhorn series.
Why not? They literally just did it to the Necrons.
That is a rule redesign, not a miniatures one. I didn't think I had to specify that I was referring to the miniatures when the discussion in the last pages have been about the miniatures, but it seems I was naive.
Okay, my point still stands. They did redesign many of the miniatures, added look at all the new destroyers, the new walkers, the taller and new warriors with new weapons. Tyranids can get the Necron treatment, and be fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current Tyranid range other than the fact it's old as gak and has the worst rules of any army in both of their game systems. Tyranids don't need to get an AoS style redesign, just a nice update and better rules support.
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
That's a rather obvious (when you think about it) and very salient point... yet i'd be excited for any new guard plastic infantry at the moment and, besides, they also wear gas masks so bring it on!
Scrub wrote: Be still my beating heart! Talk about too many Christmases coming at once, along with new Orks... Yes bloody please!!!
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, especially if kodos turns out to be right.
Probably true, given that Gaunts Ghosts are basically a stand alone, and the Star Striders too or whatever the RT team was called. Still, I'd definitely be down for some plastic DKoK even if it was just a Inquisition retinue.
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
It'll be hilarious when the big reveal that everyone is getting worked up about turns out to be that the resin DKoK are going back up for sale on Forgeworld.
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
It'll be hilarious when the big reveal that everyone is getting worked up about turns out to be that the resin DKoK are going back up for sale on Forgeworld.
That would be better than a Warcry style box to be honest.
DKoK would be a top selling army in full plastic, they should just commit to it. No need to test the waters with a monopose skirmish box.
I don't understand why GW holds 40k back so hard by ignoring their outdated model lines.
My big fear is we won't actually see the new kommandos or Kriegers. They'll just end the event with a "but wait, more is coming" teaser and just have an animation hinting at the box. Kind of like what they did with flayed ones
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
Wrong location though.
I’m expecting a 5 man monopole kill team unit with inquisitor commander.with ork terrain (because rumors)
It’s not enough to build an army but they haven’t stopped selling fw kreig so it doesn’t matter.
If it’s grenediers or engineers with revamped rules for 40K that would be fine too..
Either or I play krieg and inquisition and knights and orks so hopefully rumors hold.
I expect to be both pleased and disappointed at the same time :p
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
The guardsman in the background of the preview banner thing is definitely DKoK rather than Steel Legion. The small details are consistent with the former rather than the latter (ridge at the top of the helmet, helmet that comes down the side of the face, separate goggles rather than the one piece goggles of the Steel Legion, shoulder armour).
Maybe generic Great Coats, or Baran Regiments, or they tell us that Krieg has not a unique Equipment-Design...
There was a third Named Great Coat wearing IG Thema - Regiments from Baran, they were in Design the "precursor" for the Regiments from Krieg and were introduced with Epic Armagedone.
I thought the Baran Seige masters came out after the armageddon mini-codex, which is when Krieg first appeared in the illustrations and background (as alternative clour scheme for the Steel Legion).
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
It'll be hilarious when the big reveal that everyone is getting worked up about turns out to be that the resin DKoK are going back up for sale on Forgeworld.
That would be better than a Warcry style box to be honest.
DKoK would be a top selling army in full plastic, they should just commit to it. No need to test the waters with a monopose skirmish box.
I don't understand why GW holds 40k back so hard by ignoring their outdated model lines.
Yeah, they are hugely popular, the only thing that holds most people back from buying the FW Krieg models is the cost. A plastic kit would sell like hot cakes.
RazorEdge wrote: Maybe generic Great Coats, or Baran Regiments, or they tell us that Krieg has not a unique Equipment-Design...
There was a third Named Great Coat wearing IG Thema - Regiments from Baran, they were in Design the "precursor" for the Regiments from Krieg and were introduced with Epic Armagedone.
Or we are reminded regiments aren't restricted to single planet and you can find regiments raised in planet x elsewhere
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
The guardsman in the background of the preview banner thing is definitely DKoK rather than Steel Legion. The small details are consistent with the former rather than the latter (ridge at the top of the helmet, helmet that comes down the side of the face, separate goggles rather than the one piece goggles of the Steel Legion, shoulder armour).
Not saying they will do this, but did you ever consider the possibility that redesigned Armageddon Steel Legion might have a different helmet, goggles, and gasmask?
The steel legion are old models, and kreig are more recent but resin. That krieg head on the picture looks more like a warhammer+ animation model than a 28mm model.
Various regiments share equipment in the fluff. If gw is making a new kit for guard in plastic, there is no reason to assume that it will be a 1 - 1 match of the resin krieg. Could be a blend of kreig and steel legion to be used as either and tap into the great coat guard market.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The steel legion are old models, and kreig are more recent but resin. That krieg head on the picture looks more like a warhammer+ animation model than a 28mm model.
Various regiments share equipment in the fluff. If gw is making a new kit for guard in plastic, there is no reason to assume that it will be a 1 - 1 match of the resin krieg. Could be a blend of kreig and steel legion to be used as either and tap into the great coat guard market.
I feel like in that case neither DKoK OR Steel Legion fans will buy it...
My personal take is that DKoK in plastic isn't something that is going to happen - maybe they will get some updates rules as a "regiment of renown" in the new campaign book like others have been getting, but i reckon that DKoK will be one of the very last things that go from resin to plastic, shortly before FW packs in completely.
If they were finecast models, then i would agree with you, but, unless i am wrong, the only models that have crossed over from FW resin to GW plastic is the 2, soon to be 3, types of power armoured marines.
DKoK are a steady product for them, and a specialist force within the game. They aren't going to get their own codex, or get included in the Guard one due to being so different. At best they will get a supplement. GW will probably take over the writing of said supplement, but i personally wouldn't say that makes them top of the list for conversion into plastic.
Kdash wrote: If they were finecast models, then i would agree with you, but, unless i am wrong, the only models that have crossed over from FW resin to GW plastic is the 2, soon to be 3, types of power armoured marines.
DKoK are a steady product for them, and a specialist force within the game. They aren't going to get their own codex, or get included in the Guard one due to being so different. At best they will get a supplement. GW will probably take over the writing of said supplement, but i personally wouldn't say that makes them top of the list for conversion into plastic.
Technically it's 3 types of Power Armoured Marines, 2 Terminator types and a Dreadnought that crossed over
Kdash wrote: If they were finecast models, then i would agree with you, but, unless i am wrong, the only models that have crossed over from FW resin to GW plastic is the 2, soon to be 3, types of power armoured marines.
DKoK are a steady product for them, and a specialist force within the game. They aren't going to get their own codex, or get included in the Guard one due to being so different. At best they will get a supplement. GW will probably take over the writing of said supplement, but i personally wouldn't say that makes them top of the list for conversion into plastic.
Trygon and Valkyrie were swapped over, so close to the resin that the original plastic ball box actually had the fw model on the cover. But then gw stopped porting kits over in favor of making their own alternate designs.
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
The guardsman in the background of the preview banner thing is definitely DKoK rather than Steel Legion. The small details are consistent with the former rather than the latter (ridge at the top of the helmet, helmet that comes down the side of the face, separate goggles rather than the one piece goggles of the Steel Legion, shoulder armour).
Not saying they will do this, but did you ever consider the possibility that redesigned Armageddon Steel Legion might have a different helmet, goggles, and gasmask?
We saw an Armageddon Steel Legion Sergeant (or some sort of officer) as part of the concept art for the video game Darktide, and there isn't really any difference in uniform between that and the original model.
Kdash wrote: If they were finecast models, then i would agree with you, but, unless i am wrong, the only models that have crossed over from FW resin to GW plastic is the 2, soon to be 3, types of power armoured marines.
DKoK are a steady product for them, and a specialist force within the game. They aren't going to get their own codex, or get included in the Guard one due to being so different. At best they will get a supplement. GW will probably take over the writing of said supplement, but i personally wouldn't say that makes them top of the list for conversion into plastic.
Hydra, baneblade and it's variants. Valkyrie maybe?
Kdash wrote: If they were finecast models, then i would agree with you, but, unless i am wrong, the only models that have crossed over from FW resin to GW plastic is the 2, soon to be 3, types of power armoured marines.
DKoK are a steady product for them, and a specialist force within the game. They aren't going to get their own codex, or get included in the Guard one due to being so different. At best they will get a supplement. GW will probably take over the writing of said supplement, but i personally wouldn't say that makes them top of the list for conversion into plastic.
Hydra, baneblade and it's variants. Valkyrie maybe?
Valkyrie definitely. Manticore too. IIRC half of the Leman Russ variants and a couple of the artillery options were also originally FW designs.
Theres been lots ported over, just not much recently.
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
The guardsman in the background of the preview banner thing is definitely DKoK rather than Steel Legion. The small details are consistent with the former rather than the latter (ridge at the top of the helmet, helmet that comes down the side of the face, separate goggles rather than the one piece goggles of the Steel Legion, shoulder armour).
Not saying they will do this, but did you ever consider the possibility that redesigned Armageddon Steel Legion might have a different helmet, goggles, and gasmask?
We saw an Armageddon Steel Legion Sergeant (or some sort of officer) as part of the concept art for the video game Darktide, and there isn't really any difference in uniform between that and the original model.
Also, why would they redesign the Steel Legion to look exactly like the DKoK?
Resting One wrote: Some folks seem to think this might be Steel Legion, instead of DKOK.
It might make more sense in light of so much Ork.
The guardsman in the background of the preview banner thing is definitely DKoK rather than Steel Legion. The small details are consistent with the former rather than the latter (ridge at the top of the helmet, helmet that comes down the side of the face, separate goggles rather than the one piece goggles of the Steel Legion, shoulder armour).
Not saying they will do this, but did you ever consider the possibility that redesigned Armageddon Steel Legion might have a different helmet, goggles, and gasmask?
We saw an Armageddon Steel Legion Sergeant (or some sort of officer) as part of the concept art for the video game Darktide, and there isn't really any difference in uniform between that and the original model.
Also, why would they redesign the Steel Legion to look exactly like the DKoK?
Who says they did? Theres more to the DKoK than their helmets and gasmasks.
Also, they already redesigned the Armageddon Steel Legion to be Ork Hunters without gasmasks or longcoats as of the current guard codex, no reason they can't redesign them again to look like something else.
For all we know - *if* theres new guard minis being announced (still a big if), they may be a wholly new regiment - i.e. neither Armageddon Steel Legion nor Death Korps of Krieg.
I don't know what's going on, but it would be massively unwise to tease with DKoK/IG pics if new plastic version isn't actually happening. Because at this point people will expect that and will be massively disappointed if it turns out to not be the case.
I still think it's equal parts impressive and appauling how Forgeworld convinced everyone to pay a premium price for a vastly inferior product compared to mainline GW
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I still think it's equal parts impressive and appauling how Forgeworld convinced everyone to pay a premium price for a vastly inferior product compared to mainline GW
To be fair how long have the current FW Krieg been available? At least ten years?
Resin was a better material for detail until the last few years- well, except for Finecrap obviously. Plus other companies generally don't have the same QA issues that Forge World does, which probably has a lot to do with how much people are willing to forgive (or are just ignorant) when it comes to GW and their sub-companies.
As someone who had a lot of Krieg minis back in 2008/2009, I would love them to be in plastic. Maybe one in five of the ones I had didn’t have huge bubbles, a totally deformed weapon, broken feet, etc. This all right out of the package. It took so much work to “fix” them (ie make them the way they should have been in the first place) it was entirely not worth it. FW products have since gotten a litter better, but not much. Especially considering how much more expensive they have gotten.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I still think it's equal parts impressive and appauling how Forgeworld convinced everyone to pay a premium price for a vastly inferior product compared to mainline GW
To be fair how long have the current FW Krieg been available? At least ten years?
Resin was a better material for detail until the last few years- well, except for Finecrap obviously. Plus other companies generally don't have the same QA issues that Forge World does, which probably has a lot to do with how much people are willing to forgive (or are just ignorant) when it comes to GW and their sub-companies.
I mean, compared to plastic Resin may have more detail, but it's also way harder to work with, takes a lot more work to make it usable out of the package, (during which you can poison yourself and die without proper equipement) and the quality of the cast itself is way worse (full of bubbles, bent and deformed) and wheather or not the models you paid for are actually usable is pretty much based on luck. And based on all these factors, FW should actually be cheaper than GW by a significant margin, logically speaking.
Sabotage! wrote: As someone who had a lot of Krieg minis back in 2008/2009, I would love them to be in plastic. Maybe one in five of the ones I had didn’t have huge bubbles, a totally deformed weapon, broken feet, etc. This all right out of the package. It took so much work to “fix” them (ie make them the way they should have been in the first place) it was entirely not worth it. FW products have since gotten a litter better, but not much. Especially considering how much more expensive they have gotten.
Dang dude. You should have had customer service send you new stuff.
ImAGeek wrote: Ahhh Natfka, that’s a name I haven’t seen for a while.
Just like WarSeer, I used to frequent that site all the time. The last time I can think I used Faeit was when the fyreslayers first debuted, and then they disabled comments after a troll spent every post hating on them.
Someone did and mentioned that the original Source of this Rumor is Someone named Mikhael and that all his Rumors in the Past were correct (based on the Rumor Tracking Thread).
So they'll be dropping a new Kill Team edition in the same month that the new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes go on pre-order? The only way I can see that happening is if the new battletomes go on pre-order on the 28th and release on October September 4th.
ImAGeek wrote: Ahhh Natfka, that’s a name I haven’t seen for a while.
Just like WarSeer, I used to frequent that site all the time. The last time I can think I used Faeit was when the fyreslayers first debuted, and then they disabled comments after a troll spent every post hating on them.
I miss warseer. Havent really been back since the great downtimeing. Faeit though, I still remember them taking a speculation post of mine off of warseer and posting it verbatim as a rumor.
If a cadian upgrade sprue can fit 25 heads, a great coat guard full kit could easily fit a set of heads to make either death korps or steel legion
Scrub wrote: Be still my beating heart! Talk about too many Christmases coming at once, along with new Orks... Yes bloody please!!!
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, especially if kodos turns out to be right.
Hehe, no doubt! I've caught myself pondering that the 'hoping', in a lead up to a release is, (rather tragically) the best bit of 40K these days. For all their faults the Space Marines Corp have the talent, financial muscle and experience to really hit a release for six... Just a shame that Nottingham's largest plastic crack dealer is, in one way or another, is constantly attempting to extract the urine.
Still, plastic Krieg should be a big deal. Kodos sensible observations be damed! I shall continue to enjoy that delicious, delicious hope!
Kdash wrote: If they were finecast models, then i would agree with you, but, unless i am wrong, the only models that have crossed over from FW resin to GW plastic is the 2, soon to be 3, types of power armoured marines.
DKoK are a steady product for them, and a specialist force within the game. They aren't going to get their own codex, or get included in the Guard one due to being so different. At best they will get a supplement. GW will probably take over the writing of said supplement, but i personally wouldn't say that makes them top of the list for conversion into plastic.
I'm firmly in team 'convert to placcie!' on this one. As with some of the Horus Heresey range, release of plastic infantry in whatever guise may evolve into the purchasing of resin vehicle kits from Forgeworld by a new fanbase and Krieg are well positioned in the treadhead department.
ImAGeek wrote: Ahhh Natfka, that’s a name I haven’t seen for a while.
Talk about a blast from the past! Don't think I've been since the 'Warhammer community' page has been a thing.
Ghaz wrote: So they'll be dropping a new Kill Team edition in the same month that the new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes go on pre-order? The only way I can see that happening is if the new battletomes go on pre-order on the 28th and release on October 4th.
Uuuh there\s 4 weeks in august for releases. 1 stormcast, 1 orruk(if not same week ala necron&marines), 1 kill team, 1 for other.
And over month preorder window is "bit" excessive. Even new edition gets just 2 weeks.
Preorder SCE 7.8, preorder orruk 14.8, preorder KT 21.8. No issue. OR combine the battletomes. Not like there's no precedence(cough space marines cough necrons cough)
We already know SCE were supposed to be july. Preorder july, release on october would be weird
Ghaz wrote: So they'll be dropping a new Kill Team edition in the same month that the new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes go on pre-order? The only way I can see that happening is if the new battletomes go on pre-order on the 28th and release on October 4th.
Uuuh there\s 4 weeks in august for releases. 1 stormcast, 1 orruk(if not same week ala necron&marines), 1 kill team, 1 for other.
And over month preorder window is "bit" excessive. Even new edition gets just 2 weeks.
Preorder SCE 7.8, preorder orruk 14.8, preorder KT 21.8. No issue. OR combine the battletomes. Not like there's no precedence(cough space marines cough necrons cough)
We already know SCE were supposed to be july. Preorder july, release on october would be weird
There's a lot of new kits coming with the Stormcast and Orruk battletomes. It would be weird if not at least a few of them were released at the same time, especially for the Kruleboyz.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I still think it's equal parts impressive and appauling how Forgeworld convinced everyone to pay a premium price for a vastly inferior product compared to mainline GW
To be fair how long have the current FW Krieg been available? At least ten years?
Resin was a better material for detail until the last few years- well, except for Finecrap obviously. Plus other companies generally don't have the same QA issues that Forge World does, which probably has a lot to do with how much people are willing to forgive (or are just ignorant) when it comes to GW and their sub-companies.
Resin was better material for fine detail. That is true. GW, even FW rarely if ever approached that level of incredibly fine detail, and when they did, the quality was all over the place.
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
Ghaz wrote: There's a lot of new kits coming with the Stormcast and Orruk battletomes. It would be weird if not at least a few of them were released at the same time, especially for the Kruleboyz.
Yeah. Like in the week the battletome gets released And there's still week left.
Like 6 week preorder window seems kinda excessive no matter how you look at it.
Ghaz wrote: There's a lot of new kits coming with the Stormcast and Orruk battletomes. It would be weird if not at least a few of them were released at the same time, especially for the Kruleboyz.
Yeah. Like in the week the battletome gets released And there's still week left.
Like 6 week preorder window seems kinda excessive no matter how you look at it.
You can see the October 4th is a Monday and September 4th is a Saturday...
Ghaz wrote: So they'll be dropping a new Kill Team edition in the same month that the new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes go on pre-order? The only way I can see that happening is if the new battletomes go on pre-order on the 28th and release on October September 4th.
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
It'd be preferable, to be honest. Single-world guard identities are weird and don't make sense, and their legacy is still having frustrating effects on the faction rules and identity.
'Krieg' or 'Cadia' or whatever frankly means nothing to me- I'd rather have 'my troops' with a look I like rather than deal with the baggage of good artillery guys have to be from Planet X while resilient infantry have to be from Planet Y because reasons.
Several guard kits in different styles that can approach the look of specific regiments are much preferable to 'these are ONLY models from Planet X.'
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
Something like this would tick all the same boxes as Death Korps without literally being poilus with stahlhelms, the sort of overtly historical design that GW is trying to get away from.
They could call these Krieg and it wouldn't be any bigger of a change than when they went from an alternate Steel Legion scheme to their current minis.
Generic trench coat guardsman, that look like Death Korp Guardsman, but aren't Death Korp for some reason? Either have them as generic trenchcoat guardsman who are a separate thing from Krieg with their own look, or if they look like Krieg just have them actually be those. I don't understand what the point in trying to do both is, as that would dilute the unique look of them.
Nafka was/is known to take existing rumors and massage them into "believable" rumors. People here have already made connections to everything in that rumor before it even existed.
Generic trench coat guardsmen would be nice from a your dudes perspective and even nice if there were bits in the box to model them as DKoK, Armageddon Steel Legion, or insert other long coat Regiment.
Oh no... I wonder if we're due some new and fancy 'Astra Militarum lineage frontline extirpate force' infantry because Krieg is a bit German and upsets the lawyers.
Ghaz wrote: So they'll be dropping a new Kill Team edition in the same month that the new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes go on pre-order? The only way I can see that happening is if the new battletomes go on pre-order on the 28th and release on October September 4th.
from their announcement it was clear that the Battletomes are released in September, so August being the KT release is fine
Ghaz wrote: So they'll be dropping a new Kill Team edition in the same month that the new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes go on pre-order? The only way I can see that happening is if the new battletomes go on pre-order on the 28th and release on October September 4th.
from their announcement it was clear that the Battletomes are released in September, so August being the KT release is fine
The new Orruk Warclans and Stormcast Eternals battletomes are available to pre-order in August. A third battletome will follow these in October – something a little more Chaos-flavoured, we hear. And this is just the beginning – there’s a lot in store for the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar.
Scrub wrote: Oh no... I wonder if we're due some new and fancy 'Astra Militarum lineage frontline extirpate force' infantry because Krieg is a bit German and upsets the lawyers.
Yeah probably.
I won't be buying any generic coat guard that's for sure.
I am suddenly more interested in this preview.... 
Despite really liking current nids I would have no objection for such a change. For example, I really like the Exocrine or Tyrranofex with Fleshborer Hive because their weapons look like natural part of their bodies rather than something joined forcefully.
