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Black Widow @ 2021/07/07 17:21:36


Post by: MarkNorfolk


Well. That was pretty cool.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/07 17:28:52


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Can you advise us of the placement, number, but not the content, of the traditional credit stings?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/07 17:49:43


Post by: Lance845


I will be watching this all weekend.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/07 17:56:23


Post by: MarkNorfolk


One after credit scene, right at the end. I'll keep stum about most things.

Taskmaster fighting styles....
Spoiler:
Taskmaster (and that was a surprise) fighting styles:

Black Widow
Captain America
Hawkeye
Batroc the Leaper
Spider-man

and......

Huge Ackman!

Any others?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/07 17:59:27


Post by: Lance845


MarkNorfolk wrote:
One after credit scene, right at the end. I'll keep stum about most things.

Taskmaster fighting styles....
Spoiler:
Taskmaster (and that was a surprise) fighting styles:

Black Widow
Captain America
Hawkeye
Batroc the Leaper
Spider-man

and......

Huge Ackman!

Any others?


I have not seen the movie but...

Spoiler:
In one of the trailers he looks like he is using Black Panther when he is fighting Red Guardian. The way his hands are look like Panther's claws out fighting style.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/07 19:38:56


Post by: MarkNorfolk


 Lance845 wrote:
MarkNorfolk wrote:
One after credit scene, right at the end. I'll keep stum about most things.

Taskmaster fighting styles....
Spoiler:
Taskmaster (and that was a surprise) fighting styles:

Black Widow
Captain America
Hawkeye
Batroc the Leaper
Spider-man

and......

Huge Ackman!

Any others?


I have not seen the movie but...

Spoiler:
In one of the trailers he looks like he is using Black Panther when he is fighting Red Guardian. The way his hands are look like Panther's claws out fighting style.



Ah That makes more sense.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 10:14:01


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Just watched it the now.

It’s good. Very good.

Spoiler:
Once again the House of Mouse has got lucky in terms of timing.

The global plague lockdown came at just the right time for Disney, as such unfortuity goes. They’d been able to get End Game done and dusted (heh), and of course Far From Home.

Then we had a wee bit of a break, because nobody could safely film anything. They returned to our screens this year on D+, to pretty widespread if not universal acclaim.

Then comes Black Widow. A film set earlier in the franchise, and one which doesn’t really build into any of the other films. But maybe that’s just what we needed to start the build up to an otherwise crazy year of release both cinema and tv.

I do mean they got lucky. Black Widow was announced and in production way before the Unpleasantness. Sure they’ll have had time to take stock and make changes, but having a largely unconnected movie ease us back in works.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 10:31:00


Post by: MarkNorfolk


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Just watched it the now.

It’s good. Very good.

Spoiler:
Once again the House of Mouse has got lucky in terms of timing.

The global plague lockdown came at just the right time for Disney, as such unfortuity goes. They’d been able to get End Game done and dusted (heh), and of course Far From Home.

Then we had a wee bit of a break, because nobody could safely film anything. They returned to our screens this year on D+, to pretty widespread if not universal acclaim.

Then comes Black Widow. A film set earlier in the franchise, and one which doesn’t really build into any of the other films. But maybe that’s just what we needed to start the build up to an otherwise crazy year of release both cinema and tv.

I do mean they got lucky. Black Widow was announced and in production way before the Unpleasantness. Sure they’ll have had time to take stock and make changes, but having a largely unconnected movie ease us back in works.


Spoiler:
I thought it was brilliant. A Jason Bourne-esque infiltration heist movie. But mainly lots of little things made it. The fact that the superpowers were kept to a minimum (Red Guardian was just a bruiser really), taking the mickey out of Natasha's hero pose, the pronunciation Budapest. Red Ledgers.

The fact that Taskmaster was a woman was a complete surprise to me. Rachel Weiss was great. Niggles? Ray's Russian accent and the fact that Natasha's guilty past was (like the Doctor's) rendered nice and happy. The base they stole form and blew up in the prologue was Hydra after all, and the little girl she sacrificed survived and was rescued. Still... it's a Disney movie. And I would've liked more of that Russian choral version of the Avengers theme that was in the trailer. Still, little stuff.

So what now? what happened to rescued Taskmaster. The plethora of ex-Widows? And is it a case of "Hello! I am Yelena Belova. You killed my sister! Prepare to die!"


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 10:53:10


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Well... that certainly was a movie.

But yeah... not great.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 15:11:27


Post by: Grimskul


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well... that certainly was a movie.

But yeah... not great.


Spoiler:
Yeah, gotta agree that they really wasted the Taskmaster character, it feels like they were rushing to get some kind of baddy that is somewhat recognizable but not too dangerous for BW to overcome and they just drew his name out the bag and threw the character in as a kind of silent killer even though that doesn't match the character background at all. Does Taskmaster even have a line at all during the movie? Frankly, if they didn't kill Crossbones off so early on, he would have been a better recurring villain for BW tbh.

Also, I think Red Guardian's portrayal is a bad sign of a continuing trend of the MCU when it comes to male characters fighting females. Similar to Thor Ragnarok, even the female villains can be never be portrayed as being straight up defeated by a man. Despite Thor getting his power-up, he still can't beat Hela 1v1, and has to resort to Surtur nuking Asgard to kill her. Similarly, Thanos can easily hold his own against Tony, Cap and Thor all at the same time, but he gets beat by Wanda, needing to be bailed out by orbital bombardment, and even with Captain Marvel, he's forced to resort to using the power stone to get her off. It's kind of annoying that you can immediately assume who gets the upper hand in fights like these because of an underlying empowerment message where the girls always have to win. You see it even in the TV series with the Dora Milaje manhandling all the guys in the room for Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I'm all for kickass female characters, but there's no tension in a fight if there's clearly no struggle for them when they fight a man.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 18:07:14


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Spoiler:
Seems fairly obvious we’ll be seeing Yelena in Hawkeye when that debuts later this year.

Wonder if we might see Clint starting to form a Young Avengers type group, or it’ll be further setting up the Thunderbolts?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 18:36:28


Post by: AduroT


Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh crud. It was… Rather mediocre in my opinion. Not like bad, but not terribly good. And I hate what they did with Taskmaster. And now people are gonna be all You only dislike it because it’s the girl led movie and that’s going to poison all discussion of it.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/09 18:44:42


Post by: Grimskul


 AduroT wrote:
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh crud. It was… Rather mediocre in my opinion. Not like bad, but not terribly good. And I hate what they did with Taskmaster. And now people are gonna be all You only dislike it because it’s the girl led movie and that’s going to poison all discussion of it.


I mean if the all-female Ghostbusters movie taught me anything, it's their default excuse to hide behind when their story decisions and acting performances aren't up to snuff. Nothing like attacking your audience to build up rave reviews!


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 01:41:36


Post by: Voss


 AduroT wrote:
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh crud. It was… Rather mediocre in my opinion. Not like bad, but not terribly good. And I hate what they did with Taskmaster. And now people are gonna be all You only dislike it because it’s the girl led movie and that’s going to poison all discussion of it.


I mean, you could just... not bring it up and focus on the problem areas of the actual film? Not much point in poisoning the path to the well if the poisoning the well is all you're going to talk about.


Anyway, I take it from the end credits scene that the take away from this movie is
Spoiler:
Replacement Widow is going to go fight Hawkeye and be another Black Widow he gets to redeem? Or is there more flesh on this outline?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 02:28:37


Post by: Lance845


I saw it. I liked it. It's not the best the MCU has to offer (that is still Winter Soldier and Infinity War), but it's way better than Iron Man 3 and doesn't follow the basic Iron Man plot.

It fleshes out her character while fleshing out new characters and setting a stage for some things now in the world to come back later in other ways.

Spoiler:

I like what they did with Taskmaster. In the end she is still alive and that means we can get more character development from her now that she isn't a brainwashed mute.

In terms of the post credits. This is the second time we are seeing the Contessa, and this was actually supposed to be the first time we see her. So here is what I think she is doing. She's General Ross's Nick Fury building an Avengers for the UN/Sokovia Accords. We have the MCU shows introducing all these Young Avengers/Champions, but also have the Contessa employing a Black Widow and recruiting US Agent. It would be madness if this wasn't building up to something, right?

Are we going to get a Red Hulk in the She Hulk series? A return of Abomination being recruited by the Contessa?

In Armor Wars are we going to get a Crimson Dynamo or Titanium Man?

They went back to move forward. I like the pieces they put in play. Excited to see where this stuff goes.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 02:59:38


Post by: Vulcan


Voss wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh crud. It was… Rather mediocre in my opinion. Not like bad, but not terribly good. And I hate what they did with Taskmaster. And now people are gonna be all You only dislike it because it’s the girl led movie and that’s going to poison all discussion of it.


I mean, you could just... not bring it up and focus on the problem areas of the actual film? Not much point in poisoning the path to the well if the poisoning the well is all you're going to talk about.


We could. In fact, we did just that when discussing the remade Ghostbusters and The Last Jedi. Notice how well that didn't work out.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 03:16:59


Post by: BlackoCatto


2/5

That's my score.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 03:23:24


Post by: Voss


 Vulcan wrote:
Voss wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh crud. It was… Rather mediocre in my opinion. Not like bad, but not terribly good. And I hate what they did with Taskmaster. And now people are gonna be all You only dislike it because it’s the girl led movie and that’s going to poison all discussion of it.


I mean, you could just... not bring it up and focus on the problem areas of the actual film? Not much point in poisoning the path to the well if the poisoning the well is all you're going to talk about.


We could. In fact, we did just that when discussing the remade Ghostbusters and The Last Jedi. Notice how well that didn't work out.


Well, preemptively making the conversation about that rather than the film is a sure fire way of going down the same path.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 06:33:36


Post by: AduroT


 Lance845 wrote:
I saw it. I liked it. It's not the best the MCU has to offer (that is still Winter Soldier and Infinity War), but it's way better than Iron Man 3 and doesn't follow the basic Iron Man plot.

It fleshes out her character while fleshing out new characters and setting a stage for some things now in the world to come back later in other ways.

Spoiler:

I like what they did with Taskmaster. In the end she is still alive and that means we can get more character development from her now that she isn't a brainwashed mute.

In terms of the post credits. This is the second time we are seeing the Contessa, and this was actually supposed to be the first time we see her. So here is what I think she is doing. She's General Ross's Nick Fury building an Avengers for the UN/Sokovia Accords. We have the MCU shows introducing all these Young Avengers/Champions, but also have the Contessa employing a Black Widow and recruiting US Agent. It would be madness if this wasn't building up to something, right?

Are we going to get a Red Hulk in the She Hulk series? A return of Abomination being recruited by the Contessa?

In Armor Wars are we going to get a Crimson Dynamo or Titanium Man?

They went back to move forward. I like the pieces they put in play. Excited to see where this stuff goes.


Abomination is in the Shang Chi trailer for what that’s worth.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 08:01:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


And Abomination is meant to appear in She-Hulk as well.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 13:48:51


Post by: creeping-deth87


I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 17:21:53


Post by: Trondheim


1/6 for my part, less than good acting, considering who is in this film. The Marvel films have never been anything to measure talent by, but this made me almost fall asleep about halfway through it.
This is a shame but expected


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 20:04:53


Post by: Azreal13


Good points.

Really good fight scenes in the main, absolutely evocative of the Bourne films, real kinetic energy and impacts I could feel.

That's maybe it?

A poor MCU film is still normally a pretty solid film, and this is no exception, but it felt like the most interesting parts were the bits of the story it didn't tell, was flabby around the middle and if the Taskmaster reveal was supposed to be a surprise it failed as I suspected it from the flashback.

The bridge fight and the escape from the Widows were highlights though, and some of the trademark MCU quips did actually make me chuckle.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/10 21:47:21


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


On a general note….

Competently shot “you can actually see what’s happening” fight scenes need more praise.

We’ve seen Marvel get it right, where the fights feel fast and real, but aren’t overly busy to the point you can’t notice the choereography. Even WB’s MonsterVerse has done the same, getting across the scale of the combatants, without reducing the action to a blur of dodgy CGI (compare that directly with the Transformer’s movies).

More of that, please Mr Hollywood Sir.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 00:21:38


Post by: Lance845


 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Spoiler:
She DOES manipulate him into telling her everything. In exactly the same way we have seen her do it in other movies. In the same way she goads Loki. In the same way she goads the general. She plays a part and lets people do all the hard work themselves. Act weak, say the right couple words at the right time, and people can't help but start to spill the beans.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 08:50:07


Post by: BrianDavion


 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Spoiler:
She DOES manipulate him into telling her everything. In exactly the same way we have seen her do it in other movies. In the same way she goads Loki. In the same way she goads the general. She plays a part and lets people do all the hard work themselves. Act weak, say the right couple words at the right time, and people can't help but start to spill the beans.


Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lance here, it was pretty obvious that this was a classic "Natasha interrogation" Feign weakness, and let the "ohh so smart man" monologue at her. I mean christ she even ends it with "thank you for your cooperation"


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 09:22:08


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But it was pleasing to see it, as that is her job and her super power.

Other than exceptional HTH skills, BW tricking the baddie into a monologue is what she does.

We wouldn’t complain if Hulk Smashed, Thor Lightninged, Cap Shielded or Iron Man chest beamed to achieve victory, would we?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 09:24:43


Post by: Formosa


Not gonna make a long post about it, long story short this was a waste of most of the characters involved, poor pacing, ok fight scenes and dull story.

Shame as I wanted to like this movie as BW is a solid character, this movie is 5/6 years too late.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 09:26:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


As for the ending.

Spoiler:
We know the other rogue Avengers weren’t on The Raft for a terribly long time. Certainly Scott Lang was doing House Arrest not long after.

It could be Natasha handing herself in, having more or less single handedly brought down a serious threat to global security played its part in that. Showing that even when “rogue”, they get the job done with a minimum of collateral damage, as such things go.

As for the other Widows and Taskmaster? Let’s face it, someone is going to recruit them. They’re too useful a resource to just leave farting in the wind.

I’m expecting chunks of this to be revisited in Hawkeye, and in potentially more than one season.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 14:28:14


Post by: creeping-deth87


BrianDavion wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Spoiler:
She DOES manipulate him into telling her everything. In exactly the same way we have seen her do it in other movies. In the same way she goads Loki. In the same way she goads the general. She plays a part and lets people do all the hard work themselves. Act weak, say the right couple words at the right time, and people can't help but start to spill the beans.


Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lance here, it was pretty obvious that this was a classic "Natasha interrogation" Feign weakness, and let the "ohh so smart man" monologue at her. I mean christ she even ends it with "thank you for your cooperation"


You guys don't think it's done way too easily? The guy ran the red room that trains Nat how to do everything she does, you'd think it would take wayyyy more subterfuge and effort to get him to explain everything. It just doesn't feel earned. How the hell did this guy get to his position if he's so easily duped?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 14:50:21


Post by: Azreal13


You have to account for the short hands necessary in the genre a little, I'm not going to give it too much of a hard time over that because it's a super hero action movie, not an adaptation of a John Le Carre book.

Plus I don't think it's impossible that it was a callback to the James Bond film she was watching in her trailer and how that's how those movies always go.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 16:52:02


Post by: Lance845


 creeping-deth87 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Spoiler:
She DOES manipulate him into telling her everything. In exactly the same way we have seen her do it in other movies. In the same way she goads Loki. In the same way she goads the general. She plays a part and lets people do all the hard work themselves. Act weak, say the right couple words at the right time, and people can't help but start to spill the beans.


Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lance here, it was pretty obvious that this was a classic "Natasha interrogation" Feign weakness, and let the "ohh so smart man" monologue at her. I mean christ she even ends it with "thank you for your cooperation"


You guys don't think it's done way too easily? The guy ran the red room that trains Nat how to do everything she does, you'd think it would take wayyyy more subterfuge and effort to get him to explain everything. It just doesn't feel earned. How the hell did this guy get to his position if he's so easily duped?

Spoiler:

There are several pieces to this.

1) We have seen Nat do this before. As I pointed out she even did it to Loki. A God of Mischief with thousands of years of experience manipulating people.

2) Drehkov is over confidant.
2.1) He literally thinks there is nothing Nat can do.
2.2) He literally thinks of women not as people but as resources to be mined and used. He thanks Nat for giving him his greatest weapon by blowing up his own daughter. Because shes just an object to be used.
2.3) His pheromones have so far been a perfect fail safe. Nat even goes through the entire show of attempting to use the gun and knife and looking shocked and scared. It's every step of the way where she is building up his own over confidence. She makes him feel stronger and more powerful, and why shouldn't he?, so that when she questions him and calls him a looser and his high is showing some fundamental cracks in the foundation that he starts to justify his high. You see how angry he gets? SHE got him there. Angry people make dumb decisions.

You can think it didn't feel earned or whatever. All I am saying is we have seen her do this before. And the movie shows us with some interspersed flash backs of the plan being made that every single thing she does and says from the moment she meets him face to face is part of the plan to get him to reveal the information she needs. Everything. From pretending to be Melinda, to getting revealed she isn't, to drawing the gun, the knife, the getting punched, the looking shocked at how many Widows there are, it's all a farce to get Drehkov where she wants him.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 17:12:56


Post by: Turnip Jedi


Nat's good but she's no Mr Incredible, "you got me monolgging, you sly dog"


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 18:47:09


Post by: Mr Nobody


 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Spoiler:
She DOES manipulate him into telling her everything. In exactly the same way we have seen her do it in other movies. In the same way she goads Loki. In the same way she goads the general. She plays a part and lets people do all the hard work themselves. Act weak, say the right couple words at the right time, and people can't help but start to spill the beans.


Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lance here, it was pretty obvious that this was a classic "Natasha interrogation" Feign weakness, and let the "ohh so smart man" monologue at her. I mean christ she even ends it with "thank you for your cooperation"


You guys don't think it's done way too easily? The guy ran the red room that trains Nat how to do everything she does, you'd think it would take wayyyy more subterfuge and effort to get him to explain everything. It just doesn't feel earned. How the hell did this guy get to his position if he's so easily duped?

Spoiler:

There are several pieces to this.

1) We have seen Nat do this before. As I pointed out she even did it to Loki. A God of Mischief with thousands of years of experience manipulating people.

2) Drehkov is over confidant.
2.1) He literally thinks there is nothing Nat can do.
2.2) He literally thinks of women not as people but as resources to be mined and used. He thanks Nat for giving him his greatest weapon by blowing up his own daughter. Because shes just an object to be used.
2.3) His pheromones have so far been a perfect fail safe. Nat even goes through the entire show of attempting to use the gun and knife and looking shocked and scared. It's every step of the way where she is building up his own over confidence. She makes him feel stronger and more powerful, and why shouldn't he?, so that when she questions him and calls him a looser and his high is showing some fundamental cracks in the foundation that he starts to justify his high. You see how angry he gets? SHE got him there. Angry people make dumb decisions.

You can think it didn't feel earned or whatever. All I am saying is we have seen her do this before. And the movie shows us with some interspersed flash backs of the plan being made that every single thing she does and says from the moment she meets him face to face is part of the plan to get him to reveal the information she needs. Everything. From pretending to be Melinda, to getting revealed she isn't, to drawing the gun, the knife, the getting punched, the looking shocked at how many Widows there are, it's all a farce to get Drehkov where she wants him.


Even simpler than that. Drehkov had become just another stupid old man who's only goal was keeping power. He's a stand-in for every terrible boss who should have retired and doesn't understand the changing times... or personal space.

As others have said, it's a shame what they did with Task Master. And I think it could have worked if they did just a little bit more. Just one more twist.

Spoiler:
Maybe Natasha uses the cure on Task Master, only to find out she's not brainwashed. Maybe she's just that cold a person.

Or maybe Natasha frees her and Task Master turns on her father. But, then a twist, she attempts to take over the red room. Natasha then has to destroy the red room before Task Master can use it.

In either case, we end the movie with a heartless killer as a roaming mercenary in future movies.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 18:48:42


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But TM isn’t a killer in the comics?

Rather, they’re the trainer of goons etc. A villain, but not often an active thorn in anyone’s side.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 18:58:07


Post by: Mr Nobody


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But TM isn’t a killer in the comics?

Rather, they’re the trainer of goons etc. A villain, but not often an active thorn in anyone’s side.


Did not know that. My only exposure was the few spider man games he's been in. I always thought he was just a cool mercenary type.

But with that in mind. A red room twist would have fit perfectly with his comic character.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 19:03:34


Post by: Cybtroll


I agree that this film is definitely 5/6 years late. Good action scene, good acting, risible story (more risible than usual) and a few cringe-inducing moments. It's mediocre at best in my opinion (note that I consider almost all MCU movies to be bad... So it's better than most of them).

More than anything, what bothers me is the scale of those supposed baddies. Aliens invaded New York a few years ago, and we should perceive those guys as bad, or dangerous? I feel like they come out as pathetic (a problem I noticed also in Mysterio in Far from Home).
You can't do the bigenace anymore Marvel, at least not until you being big guns in a movie like Wanda or Strange (that's why I think that both Loki and Multiverse of Madness will work better: they can have real cosmic big baddies).


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 19:06:42


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


That’s where I think they’ll take the immediate aftermath.

Spoiler:
After all, off goes Taskmaster and a bunch of Black Widows. And there are other Black Widows to be freed from the mind control.

Sure, they now have free will to choose their own path, but like Natasha? They’ve had forced hysterectomies. They’re trained killers with no family to speak of. They don’t know ordinary civilian life (though those in deep cover may have more, it being necessary to go undercover).

That’s a helluva a resource of ultimately naive killers who’ve only known a life of being told what to do and when to do it. Ain’t nobody just gonna let them be. Someone is going to recruit them. And that recruitment will come with a purpose in mind of course.

We’ve not seen the last of Task Master. This was just their intro movie.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 19:13:30


Post by: Cybtroll


DOUBLE POST - REMOVED


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 20:55:50


Post by: Lance845


 Mr Nobody wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But TM isn’t a killer in the comics?

Rather, they’re the trainer of goons etc. A villain, but not often an active thorn in anyone’s side.


Did not know that. My only exposure was the few spider man games he's been in. I always thought he was just a cool mercenary type.

But with that in mind. A red room twist would have fit perfectly with his comic character.


TM in the comics is actually originally a shield agent who was supposed to go undercover with Hydra/Aim/whatever. His mimicry power in the comics eats up valuable brain space. He looses personal memories as he picks up more and more fighting style information. His traditional status in the comics is that his wife (also a shield agent), that he cannot remember, is his handler. While he can no longer remember that his undercover assignment is actually an undercover assignment. As far as he knows he actually is the Task Master and he really is a mercenary mostly hired to train the goons the Marvel universe plows through.

He's a tragic character in that regard. He doesn't really know who he is. He got started doing what he is doing as one of the good guys. But he's lost in it now.

At one point the Avengers set up a training camp of sorts for younger heroes and they hired Task Master to train them. He isn't REALLY a bad guy. He's just a hired gun at this point who doesn't have a past.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting side note: The 2 characters in the comics Taskmaster either can't or won't imitate is Deadpool and Moon Knight.

DP's fighting style is too chaotic and improvisational. There is no way to predict his next move.

Moon Knight on the other hand, well Task Master considers his fighting style to be suicidal. Why does Moon Knight wear all white? It's so his enemies can see him coming.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 21:58:57


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mr Nobody wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
I was really, really stoked for this and it just wasn't that good. HBMC nailed most of my issues with this film. It's a frustrating movie because there are some genuinely good ideas at work here, but it's buried under a lot of nonsense.

Spoiler:


Things I enjoyed: I really liked Yelena's character. She was easily my favourite part of the whole movie. She had good chemistry with Nat, they were believable sisters. All of the discussion in the cabin where we learn what an impact the pretend family had on Yelena in Ohio was great stuff. There was a strong chosen family theme going there that I thought was great.

Things I did not like: what a wasted opportunity to show some espionage and spy craft. There's some insanely over the top set pieces strung together that really don't do much of anything for the story they were telling. Perfect example is the breakout of Red Guardian. Sneaking the ear piece into the prison was great, totally thought we were gonna get like an Ocean's 11 style prison escape but no, it quickly spins into this insane, overly long action sequence where they kill like a thousand people to get him out. It didn't need to be that long. The way they got him out wasn't relevant to the rest of film.

I thought it was super weird that Drakov (sp?) was telling Nat everything about his super secret plans toward the end there. The whole time he's talking I couldn't help but think why the hell is he saying all of this to her? It would have been really cool if she manipulated him into revealing what was going on, but no. She doesn't have to. He just spills the beans.

The '2 weeks later' at the end papered over a lot, holy crap. Ross has like a hundred guys with him on the way to Nat's location. How on earth did she get away?

I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Taskmaster's portrayal in this film. On the one hand I think it's a cop out that Nat gets to be absolved of killing a little girl, but on the other I think it's really interesting that Nat inadvertently created a monster in the process. I guess the jury is out on this one for me.



Overall, it gets a 6/10 for me.


Spoiler:
She DOES manipulate him into telling her everything. In exactly the same way we have seen her do it in other movies. In the same way she goads Loki. In the same way she goads the general. She plays a part and lets people do all the hard work themselves. Act weak, say the right couple words at the right time, and people can't help but start to spill the beans.


Yeah I'm gonna agree with Lance here, it was pretty obvious that this was a classic "Natasha interrogation" Feign weakness, and let the "ohh so smart man" monologue at her. I mean christ she even ends it with "thank you for your cooperation"


You guys don't think it's done way too easily? The guy ran the red room that trains Nat how to do everything she does, you'd think it would take wayyyy more subterfuge and effort to get him to explain everything. It just doesn't feel earned. How the hell did this guy get to his position if he's so easily duped?

Spoiler:

There are several pieces to this.

1) We have seen Nat do this before. As I pointed out she even did it to Loki. A God of Mischief with thousands of years of experience manipulating people.

2) Drehkov is over confidant.
2.1) He literally thinks there is nothing Nat can do.
2.2) He literally thinks of women not as people but as resources to be mined and used. He thanks Nat for giving him his greatest weapon by blowing up his own daughter. Because shes just an object to be used.
2.3) His pheromones have so far been a perfect fail safe. Nat even goes through the entire show of attempting to use the gun and knife and looking shocked and scared. It's every step of the way where she is building up his own over confidence. She makes him feel stronger and more powerful, and why shouldn't he?, so that when she questions him and calls him a looser and his high is showing some fundamental cracks in the foundation that he starts to justify his high. You see how angry he gets? SHE got him there. Angry people make dumb decisions.

You can think it didn't feel earned or whatever. All I am saying is we have seen her do this before. And the movie shows us with some interspersed flash backs of the plan being made that every single thing she does and says from the moment she meets him face to face is part of the plan to get him to reveal the information she needs. Everything. From pretending to be Melinda, to getting revealed she isn't, to drawing the gun, the knife, the getting punched, the looking shocked at how many Widows there are, it's all a farce to get Drehkov where she wants him.


Even simpler than that. Drehkov had become just another stupid old man who's only goal was keeping power. He's a stand-in for every terrible boss who should have retired and doesn't understand the changing times... or personal space.

As others have said, it's a shame what they did with Task Master. And I think it could have worked if they did just a little bit more. Just one more twist.

Spoiler:
Maybe Natasha uses the cure on Task Master, only to find out she's not brainwashed. Maybe she's just that cold a person.

Or maybe Natasha frees her and Task Master turns on her father. But, then a twist, she attempts to take over the red room. Natasha then has to destroy the red room before Task Master can use it.

In either case, we end the movie with a heartless killer as a roaming mercenary in future movies.



Also, and it suprises me no ones picked up on this, the man is also a mysigionist. iI mean that term tends to be used a bit over much but I really got that vibe from him I mean "I built this from the one natural resource there's too much of.. young girls" etc so him under estimating natasha makes sense.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 22:29:56


Post by: Turnip Jedi


but gotta fight the man

still think they should have gone with a serum boosted "Dotty" from Agent Carter as a mean old Granny Goodness sort as the baddy


Black Widow @ 2021/07/11 23:02:32


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Rare to come across a video that so perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with a film (and I'm not even a fan of the 'Pitch Meeting' videos):




Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 00:15:01


Post by: AduroT


Last I knew Taskmaster is/was head of security for a country/city of villains, what I’m guessing is the comic version of the place Power Broker was in charge of without going to look up the location names, but that was a little while ago. He also merced it up in Spider-Men II, where Miles met him for the first time and Parker considered him a nigh unstoppable force who would kill them both.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 00:48:01


Post by: Vulcan


Voss wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
Voss wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh crud. It was… Rather mediocre in my opinion. Not like bad, but not terribly good. And I hate what they did with Taskmaster. And now people are gonna be all You only dislike it because it’s the girl led movie and that’s going to poison all discussion of it.


I mean, you could just... not bring it up and focus on the problem areas of the actual film? Not much point in poisoning the path to the well if the poisoning the well is all you're going to talk about.


We could. In fact, we did just that when discussing the remade Ghostbusters and The Last Jedi. Notice how well that didn't work out.


Well, preemptively making the conversation about that rather than the film is a sure fire way of going down the same path.


It's a railroad and we're going down it whether we want to or not.

For me, I thought the movie was... okay. A serviceable action film. But hardly the sendoff Natasha - the FIRST strong female character of the MCU - deserved. If that somehow makes me a racist sexist pig, for wanting the Black Widow to have gotten a better movie... so be it.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 01:20:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Doesn't make you a pig.

If anything, this film whitewashed all of Natasha's previous actions at the same time as taking away any agency she had during her pre-SHIELD years. Nothing she did was her fault, and the one thing that she felt guilty of she was absolved of by the end.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 04:24:12


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Doesn't make you a pig.

If anything, this film whitewashed all of Natasha's previous actions at the same time as taking away any agency she had during her pre-SHIELD years. Nothing she did was her fault, and the one thing that she felt guilty of she was absolved of by the end.



how did they take away her agency? She wasn't being mind controlled by the red room THAT only came after she left. the only thing Nat had was psychalogical conditioning, and we KNEW that


Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 07:47:08


Post by: AduroT


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Rare to come across a video that so perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with a film (and I'm not even a fan of the 'Pitch Meeting' videos):




Yyyyyyep. Pretty spot on, yeah.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 14:51:02


Post by: Easy E


I saw it.... and my first thought was to wonder why they could not have done this same movie 5-6 years ago? As many said, it came out too late.

Now, obviously the genre overlay to add capes into was was a Bond/Bourne flick. On that level it seemed okay. After all, super spies always have family issues that they are trying to replace, so it makes sense the MCU Super-spy would too. No one makes Genre flicks better than Disney.

My only disappointment was that the Red Guardian was an idiot and a doofus.

Overall, this was a solid and competent movie. In today's day and age, saying that a solid and competent movie was made is a HUGE compliment. So many are not solid or competent..... yes I am looking at you WW84!


Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 15:29:01


Post by: Ouze


Solid 6/10 marvel movie. I think Natasha deserved better, but much like everyone else, my real thumbs down was with Taskmaster. Even punk-ass Batroc got better service.

Spoiler:
I don't care about they changing the character to female, nor changing the backstory to match, but it really sucks that they basically threw the character away. You know damn well Taskmaster will never appear again, ever, and it's a shame - could have been a really cool recurring character.


 Mr Nobody wrote:
Maybe Natasha uses the cure on Task Master, only to find out she's not brainwashed.

I was expecting that to be the case, surprised she was brainwashed.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 16:14:51


Post by: LunarSol


 Easy E wrote:
I saw it.... and my first thought was to wonder why they could not have done this same movie 5-6 years ago? As many said, it came out too late.


Scarlett Johansson was signed back when Marvel Studios was technically a little independent studio before they were bought by Disney. They couldn't really afford her rate as lead actress so her original contract was a multi-movie deal at her rate to play a supporting role. I'm sure there were probably opportunities to renegotiate that, but most of that was done in the Ike Perlmutter days, so.... I mean, they had to wedge Capt Marvel in between the two halves of Thanos after all. Pretty clear the first opportunity to change things was so late that it made more sense to finish up the original contract before giving her a fresh deal.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 17:29:58


Post by: Easy E


Well, thanks for the inside scoop. I do not follow that. Probably helped they tossed her an Executive Producer credit too.

Story-wise, character arc, and genre curtains all were easily available earlier in my mind.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/12 23:36:28


Post by: flamingkillamajig


I find a lot of this really sad from some reviews I'm hearing. I like scarlett Johansson and gal gadot or at least their confidence, charisma, looks, ability and just how they seem to interact with people. If ever I'd watch a female lead superhero movie it'd have to be someone with their general good traits if not them.

From some reviews this movie just sounds like wasted potential from a great female lead.

I haven't seen it so maybe I might actually watch it but I sorta spoiler'ed myself and seen reviews so it's hard to go in without a certain outlook now based on those reviews somewhat.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 02:03:12


Post by: bat702


I think now that Disney is getting its hands dirty in the MCU, we can expect to see an over abundance of simple jokes designed for young kids. The sister Elaina seemed to always stretching for a cheap joke, which to me felt repetitive. The Red Guardian who was portrayed as being of dull wit and slightly bumbling idiot was actually some comic relief to me; tho, I bet his portrayal might slightly offensive to some Russian audiences.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 02:32:13


Post by: chromedog


You do know that Disney has been "Getting its hands dirty in the mcu" for most of the MCU's existence, right?

They bought Marvel in 2009. Iron man came out in 2010. The first film in the "MCU" as you know it.

That said, pretty much ALL of the marvel stuff is a cheap joke. Marginally better than the DC stuff.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 03:35:34


Post by: BrianDavion


bat702 wrote:
I think now that Disney is getting its hands dirty in the MCU, we can expect to see an over abundance of simple jokes designed for young kids. The sister Elaina seemed to always stretching for a cheap joke, which to me felt repetitive. The Red Guardian who was portrayed as being of dull wit and slightly bumbling idiot was actually some comic relief to me; tho, I bet his portrayal might slightly offensive to some Russian audiences.


I dunno, I never saw him as intended to be a RUSSIAN (in terms of comedic archtype) so much as "clueless old man so stuck in the 'glory days' of his past he's oblivious to what he's lost in his present" comedic archtype


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 04:43:24


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 chromedog wrote:
They bought Marvel in 2009. Iron man came out in 2010. The first film in the "MCU" as you know it.
2008, actually, so they weren't really involved in that film.

 chromedog wrote:
That said, pretty much ALL of the marvel stuff is a cheap joke. Marginally better than the DC stuff.
Yeah... I don't think that holds true. If it did, then both of them would be great successes.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 06:04:48


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 chromedog wrote:
They bought Marvel in 2009. Iron man came out in 2010. The first film in the "MCU" as you know it.
2008, actually, so they weren't really involved in that film.

 chromedog wrote:
That said, pretty much ALL of the marvel stuff is a cheap joke. Marginally better than the DC stuff.
Yeah... I don't think that holds true. If it did, then both of them would be great successes.


I think ultimately the MCU's trick is it tries to be semi-accurate to the comics (while identifying which parts of the stories didn't age well) and doesn't take itself too seriously. the MCU understands it's all about HAVING FUN


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 09:23:21


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Quick clarification on timelines.

Iron Man released 2008.

Disney but Marvel 2009

I’d argue most Phase 1 stuff was relatively untouched by Disney. Everything phase 2 definitely under their auspices. Including of course Winter Soldier.

So the claim Disney is somehow kiddifying the MCU is outright incorrect.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 11:17:01


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’d argue most Phase 1 stuff was relatively untouched by Disney. Everything phase 2 definitely under their auspices. Including of course Winter Soldier.

So the claim Disney is somehow kiddifying the MCU is outright incorrect.
And it was never Disney holding Marvel Studios back at any point. That ignominious distinction rests with Marvel Proper, who held the purse strings.

Civil War was basically the straw that broke the camels back with that situation, and resulted in Feige being unleashed from the Marvel Proper handlers, allowing Marvel Studios to do as they wanted.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 14:01:49


Post by: Lance845


Agreed. Ike Pearlmutter, famously terrible dude, is responsible for a lot of the kiddy gloves during the first 2 phases of the mcu.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 18:22:30


Post by: gorgon


BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 chromedog wrote:
They bought Marvel in 2009. Iron man came out in 2010. The first film in the "MCU" as you know it.
2008, actually, so they weren't really involved in that film.

 chromedog wrote:
That said, pretty much ALL of the marvel stuff is a cheap joke. Marginally better than the DC stuff.
Yeah... I don't think that holds true. If it did, then both of them would be great successes.


I think ultimately the MCU's trick is it tries to be semi-accurate to the comics (while identifying which parts of the stories didn't age well) and doesn't take itself too seriously. the MCU understands it's all about HAVING FUN


The real trick is that it's just a thin veneer of comics accuracy...little catchphrases and notes and details, even as they change characters' backstories and motivations. Most of the audience isn't very familiar with the source material for the core Avengers characters, let alone GotG, Ms/Captain Marvel, Thanos, Eternals, etc. There's no baggage there to worry about. So it's about including just enough of those notes from the comics to keep the comics fanboys titillated...which the shared universe itself already does to some degree.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 21:02:57


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


I enjoyed it, another MCU film in the good pile for me.

Also after seeing Red Guardian, part of me would love to see the Winter Guard down the road, partially just to see Darkstar.

Yelena was one of the best parts of the film in my mind, can't wait to see were it goes.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/13 23:03:02


Post by: Hulksmash


Yelena was definitely a high point. If Scarjo is out they found a worthy successor.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 00:35:02


Post by: bat702


Based off this movie I can definitely see the MCU selling out quite a bit to cheap jokes directed at kids in the MCU phase 2. We definitely saw stuff like this in episode 7-9 of Star Wars.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 02:43:08


Post by: Lance845


bat702 wrote:
Based off this movie I can definitely see the MCU selling out quite a bit to cheap jokes directed at kids in the MCU phase 2. We definitely saw stuff like this in episode 7-9 of Star Wars.
Did you watch any of the iron man movies? Or Thor movies? Of Guardians of the Galaxy movies? Or Avengers 1 and 2? Or Antman/Antman and the Wasp?

The MCU has been 80+% jokes from movie 1. If anything SW 7-9 tried to imitate the MCU and failed to do it well.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 07:42:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Indeed.

It’s kinda of the hallmark of the MCU, an undercurrent of humour running through all the films.

Even in Winter Soldier, the most serious of the fare we still get tension relieving quips.

For me, it makes things more relatable. Steve and Tony are both ultimately Just Human Beings. Humour relieves stress. If you go all Po faced, you end up with the god awful DCEU, where everyone is gravelly and grim because apparently that’s all mature and that.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 08:25:28


Post by: Dysartes


bat702 wrote:
Based off this movie I can definitely see the MCU selling out quite a bit to cheap jokes directed at kids in the MCU phase 2. We definitely saw stuff like this in episode 7-9 of Star Wars.


I guess Phase 2 had both Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man in there, so there were some cheap jokes, but I don't think the jokes ruined any of the films in that block.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 11:03:37


Post by: AduroT


Thor Ragnarok got close a few times to the humor being too much or inappropriate in places. I still quite enjoyed that movie. It does give me trepidation for Love And Thunder though where it sounds like the director is doubling down on it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Indeed.

It’s kinda of the hallmark of the MCU, an undercurrent of humour running through all the films.

Even in Winter Soldier, the most serious of the fare we still get tension relieving quips.

For me, it makes things more relatable. Steve and Tony are both ultimately Just Human Beings. Humour relieves stress. If you go all Po faced, you end up with the god awful DCEU, where everyone is gravelly and grim because apparently that’s all mature and that.


It’s a big part of why I like Bendis’ writing in the comics. They tend to just talk and behave more like real people having real conversations and his books end up being my favorite ones.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 13:10:16


Post by: Blackie


Just watched, pretty mediocre in my opinion, still the typical 6/10 Marvel movie.

But I toyed with the idea of a crossover with Stranger Things. Now we know what happened to sheriff Hopper after being imprisoned (and possibly indoctrinated) in Russia . Timelines of both Hopper and Red Guardian match perfectly .


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 14:41:57


Post by: The_Real_Chris


Very poor film. Wife dozed off and daughter was just bored. In our view it was just lots of pointless fights seeing as we know the main character will be ok. The consensus on the best part was the sequence when they were kids and then the rest was instantly forgettable. Even the Marvel humour wasn't there. I concur with the reviewer that it felt like one of the old Marvel films like Iron man 2 before the studio hit its better stride.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/15 18:27:13


Post by: Frazzled



But I toyed with the idea of a crossover with Stranger Things. Now we know what happened to sheriff Hopper after being imprisoned (and possibly indoctrinated) in Russia . Timelines of both Hopper and Red Guardian match perfectly .


This...scarily makes sense...


Black Widow @ 2021/07/19 23:11:47


Post by: Jadenim


Spoiler:
I’m interested to see where they go with Red Guardian and his apparent fights with Captain America. It obviously wasn’t Steve and it doesn’t seem to fit the timeline for Isaiah Bradley, so does that mean there was another, other Captain America floating around in the 80’s?? Although they initially played it as if he was making it up, the way he asks Nat about seems like they’re making it a real thing.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/19 23:13:54


Post by: Azreal13


Wasn't that just bullshitting? Hence why the guy calls him out on it?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/20 03:29:03


Post by: Lance845


I very likely wasn't just bullshitting. If he was bullshitting the people in prison why would he ask Nat if Cap had spoken about him when there was no one around to hear about it?

In the comics there was in fact a Cap and Bucky that the government brainwashed into thinking they were the original Steve and Bucky. They went kind of insane and became hyper violent before they got shut down. Red Guardian could easily either have had a fight with this version of cap or he Ran into Steve while he was doing some of the time Travel he was doing.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/20 04:21:24


Post by: AduroT


Steve Did go back to the past and live his life in secret. Maybe it was a little less secret than we believed?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/20 06:53:25


Post by: Jadenim


 AduroT wrote:
Steve Did go back to the past and live his life in secret. Maybe it was a little less secret than we believed?


Ooo, now there’s a thought. Great way to give Chris Evans another run out if he ever wants to.

It’s probably the usual MCU trick of leaving vague, but intriguing, threads hanging and then figuring out what to do with them later, but it seemed a bit specific for that.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/20 07:51:39


Post by: Flinty


Apologies for the slight diversion, but every time someone mentions Chris Evans I feel like the whole world sees



And poor old British Gen Xers like me are just left with this image



On topic, I also thought that it was a nice wee hook for a spin off series, Captain America 1980. We can relive all the best fashion mistakes ever made

And he is definitely too old for this gak!


Black Widow @ 2021/07/20 23:29:28


Post by: Backfire


Well...it was pretty mediocre. Maybe not the worst MCU movie, but in the bottom 5. Opening sequence was the best and has good suspense and setup. It just didn't feel very original, plot twists were very predictable and I am totally done with the 'villain's base blowing up in the end' cliche.

Red Guardian and the sis were fine, but Melina's character was all over the place.What the heck was her motivation?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 00:15:37


Post by: BrianDavion


Backfire wrote:
Well...it was pretty mediocre. Maybe not the worst MCU movie, but in the bottom 5. Opening sequence was the best and has good suspense and setup. It just didn't feel very original, plot twists were very predictable and I am totally done with the 'villain's base blowing up in the end' cliche.

Red Guardian and the sis were fine, but Melina's character was all over the place.What the heck was her motivation?


Her motivation was simple..... it changed. I mean you could see right away where her motivation changed, she started off as very professional, her work that she did (with the pigs) was intreasting. it was all theoretical and fun. then she's told "yeah I was one of the people brainwashed" and it hit home... the little girl she'd raised and been a mother too... was a victiem of this..... she could no longer be detached and THERE was when she realized the red room needed to be shut down.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 03:36:28


Post by: Lance845


BrianDavion wrote:
Backfire wrote:
Well...it was pretty mediocre. Maybe not the worst MCU movie, but in the bottom 5. Opening sequence was the best and has good suspense and setup. It just didn't feel very original, plot twists were very predictable and I am totally done with the 'villain's base blowing up in the end' cliche.

Red Guardian and the sis were fine, but Melina's character was all over the place.What the heck was her motivation?


Her motivation was simple..... it changed. I mean you could see right away where her motivation changed, she started off as very professional, her work that she did (with the pigs) was intreasting. it was all theoretical and fun. then she's told "yeah I was one of the people brainwashed" and it hit home... the little girl she'd raised and been a mother too... was a victiem of this..... she could no longer be detached and THERE was when she realized the red room needed to be shut down.



Agreed. Also her character is a product of the red room training. Shes detached and clinical even when shes not really detached. She loves her "daughters". She just has no mechanism to really show it from a life time of being a Black Widow. So even when she changes her motivation to helping them it's still clinical and cold. It's just a list of objectives because thats all she is trained to have.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 07:39:26


Post by: Jadenim


Backfire wrote:
Well...it was pretty mediocre. Maybe not the worst MCU movie, but in the bottom 5. Opening sequence was the best and has good suspense and setup. It just didn't feel very original, plot twists were very predictable and I am totally done with the 'villain's base blowing up in the end' cliche.

Red Guardian and the sis were fine, but Melina's character was all over the place.What the heck was her motivation?


I felt the same about the randomly exploding base, until someone earlier in the thread pointed out that they were literally trying to make a MCU Bond film, and that’s what happens at the end of every Bond film; villain monologue followed by everything exploding. It’s still dumb, but I’m feeling a bit more forgiving now that I get why they did it like that, it was a deliberate stylistic choice.

I think the biggest shame was the under / mis-use of Taskmaster, not so much about screen time, but just that you could have used any heavy henchman and it would have worked out the same. They didn’t find a way to use their specific skills as a threat; i.e. there was no “we can’t fight them because they know all our moves” moment, nor a “we must use x person / tactic, because they’ve never seen them before” moment. Could have been a good reason for Red Guardian to be there, as he’s been in prison for 20 years and worked in secret before that. Would also have been a nice moment of hubris for the General, “what, you never thought to show her your previous head operative? Do you think so little of me?!” Etc.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 08:45:33


Post by: Backfire


 Jadenim wrote:

I felt the same about the randomly exploding base, until someone earlier in the thread pointed out that they were literally trying to make a MCU Bond film, and that’s what happens at the end of every Bond film; villain monologue followed by everything exploding. It’s still dumb, but I’m feeling a bit more forgiving now that I get why they did it like that, it was a deliberate stylistic choice.

I think the biggest shame was the under / mis-use of Taskmaster, not so much about screen time, but just that you could have used any heavy henchman and it would have worked out the same. They didn’t find a way to use their specific skills as a threat; i.e. there was no “we can’t fight them because they know all our moves” moment, nor a “we must use x person / tactic, because they’ve never seen them before” moment. Could have been a good reason for Red Guardian to be there, as he’s been in prison for 20 years and worked in secret before that. Would also have been a nice moment of hubris for the General, “what, you never thought to show her your previous head operative? Do you think so little of me?!” Etc.


Agreed, and I was thinking something like that was going to happen...but they showed very little of their fight.Felt like some ended in the cutting floor as the movie was pretty long as it was.

I didn't really get much of a Bond vibe from the movie (though she was watching Moonraker, showing her questionable taste in Bond movies). Natasha didn't go to the casino, or bed anyone. No train scene or skiing scene either.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 08:59:48


Post by: Blackie


The only Bond vibe I got from this movie is when I recognized a Bond girl on screen, despite all the make up.

I'd say Black Widow has some Fast & Furious vibe instead. Family before everything, bad humor, lots of destruction...


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 09:42:00


Post by: BrianDavion


Backfire wrote:
 Jadenim wrote:

I felt the same about the randomly exploding base, until someone earlier in the thread pointed out that they were literally trying to make a MCU Bond film, and that’s what happens at the end of every Bond film; villain monologue followed by everything exploding. It’s still dumb, but I’m feeling a bit more forgiving now that I get why they did it like that, it was a deliberate stylistic choice.

I think the biggest shame was the under / mis-use of Taskmaster, not so much about screen time, but just that you could have used any heavy henchman and it would have worked out the same. They didn’t find a way to use their specific skills as a threat; i.e. there was no “we can’t fight them because they know all our moves” moment, nor a “we must use x person / tactic, because they’ve never seen them before” moment. Could have been a good reason for Red Guardian to be there, as he’s been in prison for 20 years and worked in secret before that. Would also have been a nice moment of hubris for the General, “what, you never thought to show her your previous head operative? Do you think so little of me?!” Etc.


Agreed, and I was thinking something like that was going to happen...but they showed very little of their fight.Felt like some ended in the cutting floor as the movie was pretty long as it was.

I didn't really get much of a Bond vibe from the movie (though she was watching Moonraker, showing her questionable taste in Bond movies). Natasha didn't go to the casino, or bed anyone. No train scene or skiing scene either.


Moonraker makes absolute sense for Natasha to enjoy. I mean she's a REAL spy so James Bond is going to be COMPLETELY fething REDICULAS to her anyway, thus she proably watches them for the "LOL no thats not how it works" factor more then anything. if thats the case the more absurd the Bond flick the better for her


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 17:34:01


Post by: Frazzled


Evidently its week over week take bombed badly.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/07/20/disney-marvel-black-widow/


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 19:20:19


Post by: Flinty


Moonraker is the best Bond film ever! (Says my inner 8 year old that watched it obsessively at lunch time during primary school)


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 20:31:02


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik




Sadly your link is behind a Paywall, so I’ve not been able to read it.

Quick Google threw up DigitalSpy https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a37065092/black-widow-box-office-explained-marvel-mcu/

That article makes some interesting points, that despite its box office (£324,000,000 including its first week on D+) is actually pretty good for the current global situation.

I do wonder if Disney have farted off their nose to spit their arse by putting it on D+ though. I share my account (entirely legally) with 3 other households. Sure the film cost me £20ish, which round my way is pretty much cinema cost. But, I’ve shared that opportunity with 8 other people (across the three other households). So, arguably, and assuming all 8 persons, which includes no less than 4 kids, would’ve paid to see it in the cinema, they’ve done themselves out of £160ish.

Rinse and repeat over…..erm….$60,000,000 D+ purchases….divide by 20 is 3,000,000 accounts? If my sharing is anyway representative? That all adds up quite rapidly to a much smaller box office, with still a decent number of views.

Let’s actually try to fathom that out. So. 3,000,000 households paid the equivalent of my £19.99 outlay to see the film. If like me, that gave 8 other persons the chance to view the film (and not factoring in kids prices solely because I can’t be bothered?), that’s a “missed” take of….erm….£19.99 x 3,00,000 x 8…..is £476,760,000 equivalent of Cinema Tickets sold.

This is of course a well ropey calculation. I’ve no way of knowing what the average share is, or that such a number would directly translate into people happy to cough up independently.

But it’s still fuel for thought all the same. Especially when you consider provided none of the people I share my account with call me a dill weed, I’ll continue sharing it with them, doing Disney out of home media disc type sales.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 21:16:24


Post by: LunarSol


I'm not surprised. While most of my friends have said they really enjoyed it, none have given it the kind of praise that would drag people to theaters on word of mouth. It simply cannot help that Loki completely stole the show in terms of MCU buzz for that matter.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 22:56:51


Post by: Lance845


I think the Pandemic played a major role in this outcome along with Disney + still being what amounts to an experimental model.

This might cause Disney to shake it up a bit. D+ can buy it 2 weeks after release? Something like that.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/21 23:04:27


Post by: Flinty


@Dok- I don’t think you’ve factored in that disney get 100% of a D+ payment compared to some smaller proportion of cinema sales. If Disney gets 50% of the cinema take (which a cursory glance at the internet suggest people might be the case especially in the first couple of weeks of release) then the D+ take is equivalent to 2x that in cinema sales. So the D+ release appears to be equivalent to about half the current worldwide cinema take. That seems pretty good.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/22 09:35:46


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


A very fair point.

However, that is going to be somewhat offset by the fact peeps like me that bought it on D+ won’t need to buy it again for home media.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mind you, with D+ I wouldn’t be paying for a separate home media release anyway.

Too hot. Thinking are hard.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/22 10:07:35


Post by: Turnip Jedi


I suspect the Mouse's take on a first run would be closer to 70%, unless the Event has impacted rates, its why snacks and wotnot are so pricey at the Cinema


Black Widow @ 2021/07/22 10:41:36


Post by: AduroT


Part of the issue I had read was it didn’t release in China right away, and with it being D+ it made a high def pirated copy immediately available on the internet right away instead.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/23 14:36:16


Post by: Maniac_nmt


I couldn't finish it. Yelena and the Red Guardian (it still fits!...I haven't washed it...) had some good moments, but I'm not sure if it was the streaming quality or what but the lighting and special effects looked very 'made for tv'. Cars blown into the air with perfect undercarriages once flipped over, stuff that felt like Legolas doing his Mario impression up some falling blocks, and I swear I could almost see the green/blue screen lines at times.

There was nothing here to really hook me.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/29 19:45:34


Post by: BrianDavion


Apparently ScarJo is suing disney because they did a streaming release at the same time and her contract "Garenteed a theatrical release" and that her salary was based in part onn the movies sucess
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/scarlett-johansson-sues-disney-over-174948480.html

My guess is this'll be settled out of court. Disney'll pony up a bonus due to the "unforseen covid pandemic" and it'll be forgotten about.



Black Widow @ 2021/07/29 21:27:08


Post by: Hulksmash


BrianDavion wrote:
Apparently ScarJo is suing disney because they did a streaming release at the same time and her contract "Garenteed a theatrical release" and that her salary was based in part onn the movies sucess
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/scarlett-johansson-sues-disney-over-174948480.html

My guess is this'll be settled out of court. Disney'll pony up a bonus due to the "unforseen covid pandemic" and it'll be forgotten about.



Completely reasonable on her part.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/29 21:38:29


Post by: LunarSol


There's likely to be a lot of this. After all, it's what happened to New Mutants and I'm sure WB is going to get hit with a bunch of these.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 03:00:39


Post by: Lance845


I am sure her original contract did not include any clauses about a cut of the premier access profits. If Disney gives her her % from that then all is cool. If they don't. Thats gakky. But I can also see her being upset about "what could have been" since nobody really knows the impact of this on actual box office performance at this point.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 09:57:22


Post by: MarkNorfolk


Is this 'business as usual'? I mean, it's the USA, right? People sue each other all the time, yeah?

Or is it confirmation that Scarlett feels that her time with Marvel/Disney has come to a definite end and the legal move isn't going to jeopardize any further possible projects?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 10:46:03


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Might also be an attempt to get some kind of precedent set for such pay arrangements.

As I set out above, for every person that coughs up for the streaming, there are predictable numbers of others who can share that access entirely legally.

Whereas a Cinema ticket is for one person. So each sale is not directly comparable. Sure, there will people watching on Disney+ who will be the only person watching. But in my flat, I can comfortably sit six people, on a pretty nice setup. So the argument can be made that the streaming is indeed artificially limiting the earning potential of someone who is getting a slice of the box office, as the five others I invite round are much less likely to then cough up themselves.

It’s also likely that she signed up to the pay deal before there was any consideration it might get anything but a purely cinematic release (unprecedented events and actions being unprecedented)

Hell, it’s even somewhat plausible that Disney agreed to this specifically to set that precedent, for all we know.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 11:04:14


Post by: Pacific


It's still the pandemic hey.

I don't think anything is getting good box office numbers at the moment is it?

No way I would go to the cinema at the moment. But a friend and I that share Disney + went halves on it (£10 each I thought was reasonable) - so that's money that went to Disney that wouldn't have otherwise. I'm sure a lot of other people are in the same boat.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 11:47:30


Post by: Jadenim


It’s probably partly to cover lost earnings (particularly given that SJ was effectively marginalised during phase 1 & 2 as a secondary character, so wouldn’t have been getting as much as the leads), but probably more a negotiating tactic / scene setting for future contracts (i.e. it won’t just be a stake of box office take, but also profits from simultaneous streaming release). I imagine there’s a lot of actors & directors that will be looking into similar arrangements for future projects.

Either way, keeps the lawyers in business…


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 11:51:16


Post by: Turnip Jedi


I'm more or less of the same mind as Doc, plus movie accounting is one of the darkest arts so its good someone with a degree of clout is taking a swing


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 13:26:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


One one hand, a contract's a contract.

On the other hand, why burn that bridge?

 Flinty wrote:
@Dok- I don’t think you’ve factored in that disney get 100% of a D+ payment compared to some smaller proportion of cinema sales. If Disney gets 50% of the cinema take (which a cursory glance at the internet suggest people might be the case especially in the first couple of weeks of release) then the D+ take is equivalent to 2x that in cinema sales. So the D+ release appears to be equivalent to about half the current worldwide cinema take. That seems pretty good.
Disney's deals for movies are often well in their favour, with 70 splits (or higher) their way over the more common 66/33 split that most distributors/studios negotiate.

Fact of the matter is that the studio always takes the lion's share of the profits from a film. Movie theatres generally get 1/3rd of the ticket sales. This is why the candy bar costs so much. They have to make their money somehow!



Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 14:11:01


Post by: LunarSol


I doubt there's really any malice on either side here. Someone on Disney's end knew they were breaking the contract to release it on Disney+; decided it was an acceptable loss to unclog the Marvel engine and get this film out in the most profitable way they can manage and settling with ScarJo is a lot cheaper than renegotiating the contract on a long complete film. ScarJo needs to file a suit, the matter will be dealt with and everyone will be a little richer than they would have been had they stuck with the "wait for theaters to recover" plan any longer.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 15:32:38


Post by: Ouze


 LunarSol wrote:
I doubt there's really any malice on either side here. Someone on Disney's end knew they were breaking the contract to release it on Disney+; decided it was an acceptable loss to unclog the Marvel engine and get this film out in the most profitable way they can manage and settling with ScarJo is a lot cheaper than renegotiating the contract on a long complete film. ScarJo needs to file a suit, the matter will be dealt with and everyone will be a little richer than they would have been had they stuck with the "wait for theaters to recover" plan any longer.


Yes, all of this. It's super common for A lister stars to typically make less in direct profits and more in a percentage off the top, so Disney clearly knew it was going to be screwing her, and decided to do it anyway because settling with her would be cheaper. Unfortunately this seems to be pretty standard with Disney after the "we don't have to pay writers" thing.

I hope she gets a hefty settlement because she delivered in good faith, and also to (ideally) dissuade this kind of behavior in the future.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 16:29:06


Post by: Frazzled


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
One one hand, a contract's a contract.

On the other hand, why burn that bridge?

 Flinty wrote:
@Dok- I don’t think you’ve factored in that disney get 100% of a D+ payment compared to some smaller proportion of cinema sales. If Disney gets 50% of the cinema take (which a cursory glance at the internet suggest people might be the case especially in the first couple of weeks of release) then the D+ take is equivalent to 2x that in cinema sales. So the D+ release appears to be equivalent to about half the current worldwide cinema take. That seems pretty good.
Disney's deals for movies are often well in their favour, with 70 splits (or higher) their way over the more common 66/33 split that most distributors/studios negotiate.

Fact of the matter is that the studio always takes the lion's share of the profits from a film. Movie theatres generally get 1/3rd of the ticket sales. This is why the candy bar costs so much. They have to make their money somehow!



No bridge to burn. Her character is already written out.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 16:31:06


Post by: LunarSol


It's an odd situation. It's not like ScarJo really wanted to hold them to the existing deal. COVID just made it a bad set of rules for both parties who were both losing money the longer it sat. Renegotiating it with zero leverage or even real precedent would likely have been even uglier to the point where she probably got a heads up. We're going to break the contract, see how much we make off this new distribution method, then you sue us for equitable "worth" and we all make what we were "supposed" to.

Remember, she's an executive producer on this, which is mostly Disney giving their talent some resume credits to give them future career prospects. Effectively though, it means she put her own money in the film and is an "investor" in the results. A lawsuit is just how you fix a contract that's hurting both parties. You need lawyers either way so they might as well do it through the proper channels.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 18:32:00


Post by: beast_gts


Emma Stone is reportedly doing the same over the Cruella release.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/30 18:42:35


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Definitely an unknown ground issue in my completely uninformed opinion.

Which may well require a court to thrash it out. The actors and studios both have a vested interest in how far they can work their respective tickets.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/31 02:26:19


Post by: Vulcan


MarkNorfolk wrote:
Is this 'business as usual'? I mean, it's the USA, right? People sue each other all the time, yeah?

Or is it confirmation that Scarlett feels that her time with Marvel/Disney has come to a definite end and the legal move isn't going to jeopardize any further possible projects?


Well, her character is Dead 10 dead, and her solo movie wound up a rather mediocre film. Odds are Marvel done with her so why not?


Black Widow @ 2021/07/31 03:18:03


Post by: Voss


 Frazzled wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
One one hand, a contract's a contract.

On the other hand, why burn that bridge?

 Flinty wrote:
@Dok- I don’t think you’ve factored in that disney get 100% of a D+ payment compared to some smaller proportion of cinema sales. If Disney gets 50% of the cinema take (which a cursory glance at the internet suggest people might be the case especially in the first couple of weeks of release) then the D+ take is equivalent to 2x that in cinema sales. So the D+ release appears to be equivalent to about half the current worldwide cinema take. That seems pretty good.
Disney's deals for movies are often well in their favour, with 70 splits (or higher) their way over the more common 66/33 split that most distributors/studios negotiate.

Fact of the matter is that the studio always takes the lion's share of the profits from a film. Movie theatres generally get 1/3rd of the ticket sales. This is why the candy bar costs so much. They have to make their money somehow!



No bridge to burn. Her character is already written out.


Not nearly that simple. It affects how other studios will look at hiring her as well.
No idea how Hollywood in general will take this, but if it paints her in Hollywood eyes as someone who 'upsets the applecart,' she might well lose some call backs for other roles. Or get squeezed out entirely (especially given that she's coming on 40 in a few years and Hollywood will probably be looking to discard her anyway, unless she makes the jump from 'sexy action' to 'matronly' roles),
On the other hand, Disney being too hardnosed about sticking to the contract, it could affect their relationships with other actors (and the hundreds of others that work on various films)

Its a risk for both sides depending on how it all plays out. I don't have much sympathy for either, frankly. At any point when you're talking about $50 million to a single person or corporation instead of $20 million I figure they can all go feth themselves and spend the difference on actually helping people instead. No one getting the money is going to miss it in a real way other than a scorecard.


Black Widow @ 2021/07/31 06:27:01


Post by: Jadenim


Even if she’s done with the MCU (and that’s not 100% given the timey wimey multiverse stuff they’re doing in phase 4), Disney now own Fox; with an awful lot of film and high-end TV production in their court, SJ is likely to have/want to work for them again.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/01 00:06:32


Post by: Vulcan


 Jadenim wrote:
Even if she’s done with the MCU (and that’s not 100% given the timey wimey multiverse stuff they’re doing in phase 4), Disney now own Fox; with an awful lot of film and high-end TV production in their court, SJ is likely to have/want to work for them again.


Assuming she's not looking to retire at this point. She's worth over $150 million; more than enough to enjoy a lengthy and very comfortable retirement... or even semi-retirement where she occasionally takes roles she's really interested in regardless of pay.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/01 04:54:10


Post by: Dreadwinter


I've seen reports that Feige is also not happy with Disney over this.

Also that Disney asked Feige not to bring her back. Not sure if any of it is true. Everything I have read has rumor all over it.


Lol my autocorrect changed Feige to Fridge, I should have left it


Black Widow @ 2021/08/02 00:04:33


Post by: Vulcan


 Dreadwinter wrote:
I've seen reports that Feige is also not happy with Disney over this.

Also that Disney asked Feige not to bring her back. Not sure if any of it is true. Everything I have read has rumor all over it.


Lol my autocorrect changed Feige to Fridge, I should have left it


Given the trope of 'Fridging' female characters and Disney's apparent disinterest in doing anything really worthwhile with Black Widow, it's probably for the best you changed it.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/02 16:19:42


Post by: Pacific


Finally watched the film. I would say a solid 3 stars, without David Harbour (who seems to have most of the good lines and was thoroughly entertaining) it would probably have been a 2-star. Perhaps also for Ray Winstone for trying to do a different accent, partially successfully!

I suppose the issue for MCU is that so many of the films have been excellent, and therefore you expect more from them.

It felt a little bit like reading some of the Horus Heresy novels or short stories that are just there to fill in the gaps. You know the start point, you know the end point, and so the script writers are limited in terms of what they can produce; there is never going to be anything earth shattering.

I'll also say it here: Think ScaJo is over-rated as an actor. David Harbour and Florence Pugh both made her performance seem flat by comparison. It actually made me think they could have gone for an actor that has some vitality or exuberance about them, and they would have brought more energy to the role. Just my tuppence there!


Black Widow @ 2021/08/02 18:14:20


Post by: Ouze


I like ScarJo just fine as an actress, but I think the Black Widow character in general has been fairly disappointing, and I look forward to her being replaced by Florence Pugh to maybe shake things up.

I think ScarJo's BW peaked in Iron Man 2, plateaued through to Avengers, and it was a steep decline from there. They just never seemed to have any good idea of what to do with her, which is why I think her movie was sort of doomed to be middling at best.



Black Widow @ 2021/08/02 18:17:54


Post by: Kanluwen


I maintain that her BW peaked in Winter Soldier. That movie did a lot, IMO, to build upon weaker elements of the character.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/02 18:22:26


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Black Widow has been somewhat underused.

But.

The sort of but Sir Mixalot is terribly fond of, allegedly?

Her finest moment was playing up to the stereotype in Avengers, despite we the viewers having seen her be incredibly “we would all end up pretzelled at best nuggeted* at worse” in Iron Man 2 and earlier in Avengers.

She just lets the literal God of Mischief monologue his way to a whoopsie. It takes the triode of every monologuing evil doer, and takes advantage of it.

That we again only see it again come in her own film? That’s….satisfying in its own way (if you can string Loki along, you can string anyone along), but also kinda frustrating that we’ve never really other, potential mad spy skillz on screen.

*nuggeted, a LARP term for when your enemy has chopped off all your arms and legs, leaving you as a particularly sweary but otherwise harmless nugget upon the floor. If they only chop off three of four limbs, you are of course a Drumstick. If they chop you to death in the chest or back, you’re Spatchcocked**

**Yes that’s a real thing,


Black Widow @ 2021/08/02 19:35:19


Post by: LunarSol


Being stuck in a supporting role definitely limited her use to the tones of the films she was in. They keep trying to romance her off rather than give her something useful to do; which kind of comes to a head in Ultron when they somehow manage to both subvert expectations with Clint while going down a horrific rabbit hole with Bruce.

She was well suited to Cap2 but sadly kind of underused there and in Cap3 got put on the wrong side of things to be used properly. There's a bit where they make a nod towards her history with Bucky, but didn't really go anywhere with it.

After that... well, it's not like Infinity War was a great story for spy craft and while the soul stone was a good for resolving her personal relationship through the franchise, it didn't really do much to utilize her skillset.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 06:59:30


Post by: Jadenim


Yeah, Winter Soldier was the best use of her character, with her and Steve coming at the “hero” thing from completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

If they’d done this film earlier, they could have had a really interesting relationship with Yelena in subsequent projects. There’s some nice hints of Natasha actually being the good guy to a moral-less, lethal, assassin, which is a neat role reversal, but it’s stunted because it’s in a single film and doesn’t have anywhere to go given the future.

I guess that’s the BW film in a nutshell; it feels much more at home amongst the phase 2 films and if they’d actually made it then like they should have, there would have been a lot of opportunities to develop these interesting characters and their quasi-familial relationship to Nat.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 12:14:11


Post by: Lance845


The point of going back is to move forward with Yolena without Natasha. They don't neeed 2 black widows. They needed a passing of the torch. They got that.

Future MCU Predictions!

1) The next "Thanos"

I think all this multiverse gak is going to end with a Beyonder/Secret Wars/Battleworld type scenario that is going to culminate in God Emperor Doom. Doom is going to be the new "Infinity Saga" final boss.

Good opportunity to recast Tony Stark/Steve Rogers/etc... in cannon and put them back in the world when it's all said and done? Yup. Not sure on this point, just saying the opportunity is there for 10 years from now.

2) The U.N.s Avengers.

I think the Contessa is working for the UN putting together their own Avengers. US Agent and a Black Widow is just the start. This is going to matter for a few reasons coming up.

3) Young Avengers/Champions are coming.

I mentioned this before. They just are. Too many of them have been cast for them to not use them.

4) Which brings me to the role the UN Avengers is going to play. They are going to get called in to deal with these super powered children. But more then that, they are going to get called in to deal with ALL the super powered children. I.E. the mutants.

Basically U.S. Agent and co showing up to capture and register teenagers who start manifesting their mutant powers is going to be the trigger that creates Magneto. Iron tech being out in the world from Armor Wars is going to build a technological foundation for something like the sentinel program when the "Mutant Problem" becomes too big for one Avengers team to handle.

This is the next 10 years we have to look forward to.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 14:09:06


Post by: LunarSol


This all seems pretty likely. I think we're also likely to see Eternals bring into play "Celestials mucking about with human evolution" as a broad concept on the road to mutants.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 17:52:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I’m kinda on the fence on The Next Thanos type threat.

What they did with Thanos was brilliant. But, I’m not sure the same trick will work twice in a row.

Though……

We’ve already met Kang, or at least an iteration thereof. And we’ve seen clear confirmation that Wanda can indeed edit reality without really trying that hard. Plus there’s the ongoing fallout of the Blip.

If there’s one thing I can say for the otherwise bland Age of Ultron, in retrospect it did bridge several gaps we didn’t know about at the time.

If they can maintain that level of writing? We should be good.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 18:21:39


Post by: LunarSol


I mean the trick to Thanos is that he didn't really exist until Infinity War.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 18:45:07


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


You’re not wrong. We got cameo after cameo, which was a tickle on the trucked For Those That Know.

Same as each Gem was revealed.

It was a long and well executed tease with, for my money, the best pay off in cinema history.

Hence I don’t think they can or should pull the same trick twice in a row. Which I suppose is the joy of Kang. We can indeed meet multiple versions and see them roundly defeated and squelched, and still have KANG rock up as a saga ending baddie.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 20:33:47


Post by: Lance845


I don't think Kang is going to be a Thanos. Kang is an Ultron at best. He is going to define the phase we are currently in and then they will wrap this up with an Avengers type and move forward.

The character can then show up here or there in his other incarnations as needed. Drop in a Rama Tut for Apocalypse. Throw in a Yong Nathaniel Richards for Iron Lad (yet another Young Avenger). Tie it off with a bow and move forward.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 20:52:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I kind of hope so.

But that is the usefulness of Kang. One iteration can be soundly defeated. But wibbly wobbly timey wimey? Maybe you didn’t defeat the right one.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 20:59:18


Post by: LunarSol


Kang's job is almost exclusively continuity handwavium. He COULD get a full Thanos level rewrite into a compelling antagonist, but I feel like we've already seen too much of him to do that.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 21:20:13


Post by: Voss


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I kind of hope so.

But that is the usefulness of Kang. One iteration can be soundly defeated. But wibbly wobbly timey wimey? Maybe you didn’t defeat the right one.


The problem is, that's really dull. And potentially confusing for the general audience. It sounds like a recipe to sink the ship, not keep it scooping up money.
There's literally 1000s of villains out there (and diverse others), and they've barely scratched the outermost layers of them. Bizarrely, they've even forfeited the opportunity to bring in some of the most important ones.
Doing N variations of Kang is a recipe for audience fatigue.

The biggest thing they need is some personal stakes for the villains. Too many have already been 'who are these jackasses and why do we care?' I don't even remember the names of the nominal villains of the Ant-Mans, Iron Mans, Dr Strange or Captain Marvel. Thor 2's villain is only memorable because he was also a Malekith, and the dark elfdar were very warhammery with their vortex grenades and guns vs Asgardian swords (also blah, blah easy mythological tropes).
Kang wants to Conquer is just... fine. Once? But not more than that, otherwise he goes in the forgettable marvel villains closet, and there just aint that much room left.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/03 21:24:48


Post by: Lance845


I think they will do enough of a good job with Kang that he will be more like Loki in that he will stick around and have some non-villain beats.

I mean... the whole character of Iron Lad is a Kang who is trying to stop himself from becoming Kang.

So he shows up in movies. We see how big a threat he is. All the damage and all the destruction. And then we bring in the Young Version who wants to avoid it at all costs and his personal stakes are trying to avoid the future he might not be able to.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 02:11:31


Post by: Vulcan


 LunarSol wrote:
I mean the trick to Thanos is that he didn't really exist until Infinity War.


Did you miss the in-credits teaser at the end of the first Avengers movie?


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 02:32:02


Post by: trexmeyer


My initial reactions to the early film are that the opening is excellent and chilling, they should avoid full body shots of Florence Pugh because it makes her look super short, why are there so many black Russian operatives...no really, why? Is there actually a sensible reason outside of diversity pandering? I'll even bet that there isn't a single Hispanic one throughout the entire film even though the USSR had close ties with various Latin American countries.

Edit 1: Scarlett is clearly super hot, but do we need multiple booty shots over and over?

Edit 2: Wonder Woman was a vastly superior female led super hero movie. BW wasn't bad, it was just underwhelming for the most part. Even with a solo film I think she got shafted by Marvel.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 06:45:24


Post by: AduroT


We’re getting Riri aren’t we? Do you think they’ll do Iron Lad as well for two young Iron People?


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 07:25:02


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 trexmeyer wrote:
My initial reactions to the early film are that the opening is excellent and chilling, they should avoid full body shots of Florence Pugh because it makes her look super short, why are there so many black Russian operatives...no really, why? Is there actually a sensible reason outside of diversity pandering? I'll even bet that there isn't a single Hispanic one throughout the entire film even though the USSR had close ties with various Latin American countries.

Edit 1: Scarlett is clearly super hot, but do we need multiple booty shots over and over?

Edit 2: Wonder Woman was a vastly superior female led super hero movie. BW wasn't bad, it was just underwhelming for the most part. Even with a solo film I think she got shafted by Marvel.


The Red Room is really presented as Russian, so much as a merc unit which happens to be based in Russia. Seems they’ll take recruits from anywhere they can.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 14:42:36


Post by: LunarSol


 Vulcan wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
I mean the trick to Thanos is that he didn't really exist until Infinity War.


Did you miss the in-credits teaser at the end of the first Avengers movie?


Of course I didn't; that's completely missing the point.

Prior to Infinity War, Thanos is at best a vague concept. As a character, he's almost entirely created within Infinity War.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AduroT wrote:
We’re getting Riri aren’t we? Do you think they’ll do Iron Lad as well for two young Iron People?


Ironheart and Armor Wars are both in the works for D+. I assumed the former would be set up in the latter, but apparently they're doing Ironheart first?


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 17:22:52


Post by: AduroT


Prior to Infinity War I would say Thanos was set up as a character in Guardians of the Galaxy.


Black Widow @ 2021/08/04 19:05:51


Post by: LunarSol


 AduroT wrote:
Prior to Infinity War I would say Thanos was set up as a character in Guardians of the Galaxy.


Roughly to the same degree Palpatine was set up in Empire Strikes Back.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/09 09:21:57


Post by: Mr Morden


Picked it up on DVD and watched and enjoyed.

Works very well as a Family film about....Families...

I don't get the niggle about multi-ethinic widows - its spelled out in the film by Ray Winston (nice to see him still working) that he wants worldwide agents.

The banter was good and worked for me - hope to see more of the various characters.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/09 23:50:45


Post by: Dreadwinter


 Mr Morden wrote:
Picked it up on DVD and watched and enjoyed.

Works very well as a Family film about....Families...

I don't get the niggle about multi-ethinic widows - its spelled out in the film by Ray Winston (nice to see him still working) that he wants worldwide agents.

The banter was good and worked for me - hope to see more of the various characters.


I watched it last night on Disney+ and I agree with this. Pretty funny family comedy with some silly action scenes. I thought they had a great sister dynamic. Yelena mocking Natasha for the superhero landing and nitpicking everything she does had some serious younger sibling vibes. Same with their fight against each other.

I liked it, about a quarter of the way I was scared I wouldn't like the end of it, but it played out real nice.

I look forward to Hawkeye just for Florence Pugh as Yelena, hoping she plays a large role in the MCU in general. MCU needs a Widow.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/10 21:09:45


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/business/scarlett-johansson-disney-black-widow.html

oh, the Widow has settled with the Mouse, very hush hush, but I guess money has changed hands, standard contracts have been redrafted,

and the Mouse will no doubt be talking to senators and representatives about how terrible the whole thing was and can't they replace whatever laws allowed the case to be brought in the first place


Black Widow @ 2021/10/11 16:25:03


Post by: LunarSol


Saw this last night. Enjoyed it more than I expected. Would have really liked it had it been made back in 2016 in time to follow up directly on Civil War, but it all really worked a lot better than I expected.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/11 16:41:21


Post by: Flinty


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/business/scarlett-johansson-disney-black-widow.html

oh, the Widow has settled with the Mouse, very hush hush, but I guess money has changed hands, standard contracts have been redrafted,

and the Mouse will no doubt be talking to senators and representatives about how terrible the whole thing was and can't they replace whatever laws allowed the case to be brought in the first place


I got caught in the NY times paywall, so here is a guardian article that I think covers it and hopefully stays open to all.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/oct/01/scarlett-johansson-settles-black-widow-lawsuit-disney


Black Widow @ 2021/10/11 17:01:23


Post by: Aash


 LunarSol wrote:
Saw this last night. Enjoyed it more than I expected. Would have really liked it had it been made back in 2016 in time to follow up directly on Civil War, but it all really worked a lot better than I expected.


I’ve only recently watched it too. I enjoyed it more than I expected and it was funnier that is expected too.

It suffered from the overload of explosions in the final act as most action films do these days, and I think I’d have preferred more emphasis on espionage rather than action, but I can’t complain really.

I also agree that it would have worked better if it had been released after Civil War.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/11 17:05:58


Post by: Mr Morden


 LunarSol wrote:
Saw this last night. Enjoyed it more than I expected. Would have really liked it had it been made back in 2016 in time to follow up directly on Civil War, but it all really worked a lot better than I expected.


Agreed would have been excellent follow up


Black Widow @ 2021/10/11 17:15:58


Post by: Jadenim


Yes, it’s definitely feels like a phase 2 film to me.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 15:44:06


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I still think the film is lousy and what they did to Taskmaster is akin to what X-Men Origins: Wolverine did to Deadpool, but I am happy that the deleted scene showing what happened when Ross caught Widow at the end of the film exists.

It still should have been in the film, but the sudden "She's giving herself up... two weeks later?" nonsense is alleviated.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 19:49:01


Post by: AduroT


Yeah, overall I thought the film was pretty ok. My only complaints are the way she repeatedly walks away from crippling accidents as a non-powered human, and the total butchering of Taskmaster.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 20:09:41


Post by: Mr Morden


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I still think the film is lousy and what they did to Taskmaster is akin to what X-Men Origins: Wolverine did to Deadpool, but I am happy that the deleted scene showing what happened when Ross caught Widow at the end of the film exists.

It still should have been in the film, but the sudden "She's giving herself up... two weeks later?" nonsense is alleviated.


I can;t stand Deadpool so very happy with X men Origins.

I know nothing about Taskmaster so was fine for me.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 21:05:42


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It was as much an origin story for Taskmaster.

Rather like Trevor, Trevor Slattery, I suspect greater things lie in store


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 21:46:27


Post by: LunarSol


That was also kind of the mess they were going for with Deadpool. I hadn't really considered the comparison as Taskmaster isn't my favorite character, but I can see it. This version is very blank slate and the comic version is definitely not so boiler plated.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 22:25:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I’ve considered the BW Taskmaster a fair bit, as I absolutely agree they’re underused in the movie.

But. When we talk post-credit scenes not just in BW, but also FalconSolider?

The Writer’s Are Up To Something. And given they just wrapped up (well, I say “just”…it’s been a few years now) the first Big Arc? Now is the time to sew those seeds.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/16 23:52:55


Post by: Lance845


I don't think Taskmaster was done dirty in Black Widow. I think Taskmaster was set up to become Task Master going forward. The fact that she didn't die means there is more for her to do.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/17 06:40:07


Post by: AduroT


Maybe the character gets redeemed in a future movie, like Deadpool in Deadpool, but in this movie Taskmaster is bad.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/17 07:34:17


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Taskmaster was there to let them have their cake and eat it to. To give Natasha a backstory of regret and horrific sacrifice (killing Drakov's daughter in order to ensure Drakov's death) but then give her absolution ("It's ok! She lived. So did everyone else who wasn't a bad guy! You saved everyone! Only the bad guys died and all your past sins were wiped away! Yay! Total victory and no more guilt!"). It was asinine.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I can;t stand Deadpool so very happy with X men Origins.
Kinda missing the point there, that being that Deadpool in Origins was not Deadpool in the same way that Taskmaster in this movie was not Taskmaster.



Black Widow @ 2021/10/17 09:19:07


Post by: Mr Morden


 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I can;t stand Deadpool so very happy with X men Origins.
Kinda missing the point there, that being that Deadpool in Origins was not Deadpool in the same way that Taskmaster in this movie was not Taskmaster.



He was an arrogant, mouthy guy - seemed exactly like Deadpool to me - just so much less annoying once he was not able to speak.

Its the MCU so thngs are different - MCU Iron Man is not Iron Man in the comics who apparently does not kill etc etc. It worked in the fllm for me, it obviously didn't for you.



Black Widow @ 2021/10/17 10:45:05


Post by: Strg Alt


Grimskul:

Men vs. Women:
These kinds of fights are always detrimental to the male. If he wins, he is a women beater. Should he lose, he will be the laughingstock for everybody. So it's a lose-lose situation for the man.

Personal experience:
Back in school in the early 90s I used to play soccer and was the top scorer of my team. There was a girl in class which was also into sports and practiced athletics especially sprinting. So the girls in class challenged me to run against her in a 100m dash.

What happened? I won the race but it wasn't easy because she was really fast. What was the outcome? Did I get any praise? Nope, the girls hated me for a week or so for not letting her win.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/18 02:34:04


Post by: AegisGrimm


The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/18 03:11:17


Post by: Voss


 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.


I'm not sure super hero movies need to explain that super heroes/villains are stronger than normal humans.

Even when we know they're explicitly not (like Batman), they're constantly doing things that normal people can't do and should break suspension of disbelief if you don't just accept 'supers.'


Black Widow @ 2021/10/18 14:43:28


Post by: Vulcan


 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.


So no problem with all the times Natasha falls with bone-breaking force onto solid surfaces and walks away?


Black Widow @ 2021/10/18 22:19:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 03:10:06


Post by: Lance845


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


Kind of like this.




I think it's fair to say that the underside of cars in the MCU are the single most well protected things on Earth.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 10:53:31


Post by: Pacific


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


I used to love this in 40k (am a few editions behind now so apologies its not still the case). Your guys wreck the vehicle, then the occupants jump out and butcher the people that blew up the transport.

I was never quite sure how that worked as an abstraction and couldn't picture what had happened, it hilariously broke the suspension of disbelief.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 11:54:13


Post by: Mr Morden


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


He is trying to obtain specific items from the car hence not destroying it,.

Also its the star of the film in the car - if you are really expecting it and her to be destroyed....well I don't know what to tell you or what you have been watching since films began


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 12:30:54


Post by: AduroT


 Mr Morden wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


He is trying to obtain specific items from the car hence not destroying it,.

Also its the star of the film in the car - if you are really expecting it and her to be destroyed....well I don't know what to tell you or what you have been watching since films began


Then why even bother trying to dodge attacks? She could just stroll thru any firefight and right up to shoot the enemy point blank. I mean she’s the star of the movie it’s not like they can stop her.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 12:35:11


Post by: Mr Morden


 AduroT wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


He is trying to obtain specific items from the car hence not destroying it,.

Also its the star of the film in the car - if you are really expecting it and her to be destroyed....well I don't know what to tell you or what you have been watching since films began


Then why even bother trying to dodge attacks? She could just stroll thru any firefight and right up to shoot the enemy point blank. I mean she’s the star of the movie it’s not like they can stop her.

Because its a movie....


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 14:35:24


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 Vulcan wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.


So no problem with all the times Natasha falls with bone-breaking force onto solid surfaces and walks away?



But you can ignore physics if your purty enough and Ms J certainly is


Black Widow @ 2021/10/19 21:35:21


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Lance845 wrote:
Kind of like this.
Nope. Not even close.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/20 18:55:25


Post by: Strg Alt


 Pacific wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only real problem I had is that the movie seemed to want to have taskmaster be some sort of augmented human in scenes, like flinging people ten feet with one hand, but never explained the character as anything more than a human with special memory function.
Taskmaster is also equipped with high-explosive missiles that destroy vehicles but leave the occupants completely unharmed.


I used to love this in 40k (am a few editions behind now so apologies its not still the case). Your guys wreck the vehicle, then the occupants jump out and butcher the people that blew up the transport.

I was never quite sure how that worked as an abstraction and couldn't picture what had happened, it hilariously broke the suspension of disbelief.


Pretty easy to explain. In 2nd passengers were ALWAYS KILLED when a transport blew up. Gamers would say such things like rhinos are "death traps" and refuse to use them. Suits in Nottingham were scared shitless that nobody would buy transports anymore so they threatened the devs to rewrite the rules at gun point.


Black Widow @ 2021/10/21 02:45:57


Post by: chromedog


And so, for many anti-vehicle weapons, the occupants had a chance of escaping un-injured.

Until Artillery got used on them. Arty penetrating hits had a big chance of "Vehicle kaboom. Passengers and crew so much salsa." results.