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Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:26:18


Post by: H.B.M.C.




WarCom wrote:
White Dwarf 466 Gets Nostalgic to Celebrate a Legend’s Final Issue

As many Warhammer hobbyists will know, games design legend Jervis Johnson has played a major part in the evolution of Warhammer over the years. Now, as Jervis takes a bow after his long and illustrious career, White Dwarf has taken the opportunity for a reminiscent look back at some of the much-loved games and articles of yesteryear – many of which Jervis himself was involved in. Issue 466 really is White Dwarf at its nostalgic finest, so let’s take a peek inside and discover why.

More at the link.
End of an era.

And I haven't broken this pic out in a while:



Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:38:20


Post by: zedmeister


So many classics. So many fun times. So many decent battle reports against Mr Chambers. Hightlight of his work for me is definitely Epic and BFG.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:40:05


Post by: Grimskul


They're going to have very big shoes to fill at GW HQ with his leaving, was kinda hoping he'd stay long enough for the next Eldar release given his impact on their design (and well frankly a lot of 40k in general).


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:41:52


Post by: The Phazer


I suppose retirement doesn't mean he wouldn't ever be asked to pen a short White Dwarf column.

But anyway, richly deserved and I wish Jervis all the best in his retirement.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:49:28


Post by: Horla


He should do a ceremonial tour of GW shops, playing matches against punters across the world and telling fun little anecdotes about whatever games system they're using.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:54:12


Post by: Chikout


Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:55:37


Post by: The_Real_Chris


Always sad when they highlight the old better battle reports!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:56:36


Post by: Eldarsif


Chikout wrote:
Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.


Wasn't it Phil Kelly who became lead of Age of Sigmar? He is at least the Creative Lead on AoS.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 14:59:17


Post by: PaddyMick


Thank you Jervis, especially for Blood Bowl. You are the man.






Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:00:34


Post by: SamusDrake


Well, this comes as a surprise. Congrats on your retirement JJ and cheers for the great games over the years.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:01:18


Post by: Chikout


 Eldarsif wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.


Wasn't it Phil Kelly who became lead of Age of Sigmar? He is at least the Creative Lead on AoS.


Creative/lore and rules have been totally separate across GW for almost 10 years now.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:08:46


Post by: Eldarsif


Chikout wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.


Wasn't it Phil Kelly who became lead of Age of Sigmar? He is at least the Creative Lead on AoS.


Creative/lore and rules have been totally separate across GW for almost 10 years now.


Roger


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:09:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Awww. I remember having my dinner at Warhammer World just prior to 8th Ed Fantasy launching, and Jarvis hosting an impromptu Q&A in the gaming hall.

Chances are you might be able to find my rough and ready “wot I remembered from it” transcript somewhere in Dakka’s dustiest recesses.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:14:19


Post by: RazorEdge


Chikout wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.


Wasn't it Phil Kelly who became lead of Age of Sigmar? He is at least the Creative Lead on AoS.


Creative/lore and rules have been totally separate across GW for almost 10 years now.


They restructured the Teams in 2019.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:34:04


Post by: Chikout


RazorEdge wrote:
Chikout wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.


Wasn't it Phil Kelly who became lead of Age of Sigmar? He is at least the Creative Lead on AoS.


Creative/lore and rules have been totally separate across GW for almost 10 years now.


They restructured the Teams in 2019.


That was when they split into AoS, 40k and boxed. They had already split rules and lore. I'm pretty sure Jervis Johnson has not written a single word of AoS lore and Phil Kelly has definitely not written a single rule.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 15:56:27


Post by: bullyboy


Pretty much makes this WD a must buy. So much nostalgia....especially the old BRs. Oh, how many WDs have i thrown away in my years.....


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:03:44


Post by: Nazrak


Oh man, I *think* this is the last of the GW guys from back when I first got into the hobby going now. I feel very old.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:07:38


Post by: Olthannon


This will be a real shame, hopefully some folks will be stepping up into that spot that can really put the work in. All the best to him in his retirement, wonder if he will do something solo after a few years..


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:10:37


Post by: No wolves on Fenris


 Nazrak wrote:
Oh man, I *think* this is the last of the GW guys from back when I first got into the hobby going now. I feel very old. [/

Hear hear! Jervis, Nigel Stillman, Andy Chambers and Tuomas!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:22:03


Post by: The_Real_Chris


 Nazrak wrote:
Oh man, I *think* this is the last of the GW guys from back when I first got into the hobby going now. I feel very old.


Blanche and Goodwin are still there?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:27:03


Post by: Theophony


I thought they'd have a dreadnought Sarcophagus set aside for him to be interned in .

Always liked him.

Waiting to see if he comes up with his own system


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:28:14


Post by: Da Boss


Met him at Warpcon down in Cork years ago if I remember correctly. Lovely guy, really friendly to everyone. Hope he enjoys his retirement.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:32:24


Post by: Cybtroll


I feel old too. Don't know Jervis enough to understand his importance as single game designer, bit the old guard at GW in the good and the bad shaped wide section of the hobby


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 16:32:55


Post by: Dryaktylus


 Nazrak wrote:
Oh man, I *think* this is the last of the GW guys from back when I first got into the hobby going now. I feel very old.


Jes Goodwin, Aly Morrison, Tony Cottrell and Dave Andrews are still there (I suppose).

Well, Jervis... thanks for your games.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 17:15:08


Post by: lord_blackfang


Good night, sweet prince


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 17:15:10


Post by: Blastaar


I think GW will be better off, honestly.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 17:16:35


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


The_Real_Chris wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
Oh man, I *think* this is the last of the GW guys from back when I first got into the hobby going now. I feel very old.


Blanche and Goodwin are still there?


John Blanche is semi retired but still does concept sketches.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 17:42:16


Post by: streetsamurai


Wasn't JJ the one responsible for the "joke" rules in AOS first edition?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 17:59:20


Post by: Racerguy180


Good bye and good riddance.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:03:30


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:07:33


Post by: ceorron


This is a shame. But thanks for all the good times.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:07:37


Post by: BrookM


He's certainly left his mark on wargaming as a whole and he's always a pleasure to listen to, he's earned his retirement.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:10:56


Post by: Londinium


He'll always be remembered for Blood Bowl. What a brilliant game system 3e was and subsequent editions since. Not for everyone but a great achievement for a games designer.

So influential elsewhere in the studio as well, especially for 40k.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:16:35


Post by: Mchagen





Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:17:23


Post by: Easy E


Definitely a wargaming force, one of the "founding fathers" in a sense.

I hope he enjoys his retirement, and I look forward to a lot of interviews post-retirement.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:25:33


Post by: Lord Damocles


A lot/most of what Johnson has written in White Dwarf in the last decade or so has been rampant gibberish.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:36:58


Post by: Racerguy180


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?

He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.

Good nuff reason for me.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 18:46:16


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Who?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 19:02:00


Post by: judgedoug


What a shame, his rules design theory articles are wonderful and I can directly attribute much of the fun I've had from "new GW" to him.

Hope this means I can read lots more Perry battle reports with Jervis in them!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 19:09:52


Post by: Arschbombe


I'm sure he rolled on a random table to determine when/how he would retire.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 19:15:22


Post by: Nazrak


 Nazrak wrote:
Oh man, I *think* this is the last of the GW guys from back when I first got into the hobby going now. I feel very old.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:Hear hear! Jervis, Nigel Stillman, Andy Chambers and Tuomas!

Oh man, I still think of Tuomas as "one of the new guys"!

The_Real_Chris wrote:Blanche and Goodwin are still there?

Ah of course!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 19:16:15


Post by: Dryaktylus


Lord Damocles wrote:A lot/most of what Johnson has written in White Dwarf in the last decade or so has been rampant gibberish.


Well, sadly, you're right. He was always loyal to GW, whatever direction they took.

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Who?


Well, Mr. Troggoth, I could explain. But I choose to doing it ... not.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 19:16:16


Post by: Nazrak


 streetsamurai wrote:
Wasn't JJ the one responsible for the "joke" rules in AOS first edition?

Not sure, but I still maintain those rules were great. Just a goofy bit of fun. I know I'm very much in a minority here, though!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 19:57:31


Post by: RazorEdge


 streetsamurai wrote:
Wasn't JJ the one responsible for the "joke" rules in AOS first edition?


Correct, it was him, and Phil Kelly.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 20:05:23


Post by: Blastaar


 Nazrak wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Wasn't JJ the one responsible for the "joke" rules in AOS first edition?

Not sure, but I still maintain those rules were great. Just a goofy bit of fun. I know I'm very much in a minority here, though!


I think the same.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 20:59:04


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


Yeah had my issue turn up this morning, sad to see him go, Blood Bowl is still one of my fave GW games of all time.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 21:01:40


Post by: KidCthulhu


Fare thee well, Mr. Johnson.

I'm glad I got Jervis to autograph my copy of Outlanders at the last Baltimore Gamesday.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 21:12:42


Post by: Clockpunk


A shame, but well deserved after such a a career!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 21:29:33


Post by: Grobrotz


Who knows how much longer Blanche will be able to work.
As I remember one of his posts on Facebook he is really struggling with his health, needs a wheelchair, suffers from renal failure and has problems with his eyes.
Slowly all of those from the old guard fade away.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 21:30:03


Post by: Skinflint Games


Best of luck to the old boy. I like to think he'll spend his retirement pasting Andy Chambers at chess


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 22:13:16


Post by: Billicus


End of an era for sure, and another unwelcome reminder that I'm getting old


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 22:18:20


Post by: pgmason


For a bit of a nostalgia trip here's Jervis playing D&D with Ben Elton, Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone on a TV show about gaming in 1984:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKZuafM-bwg


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 22:26:07


Post by: Manfred von Drakken


 Nazrak wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
Wasn't JJ the one responsible for the "joke" rules in AOS first edition?

Not sure, but I still maintain those rules were great. Just a goofy bit of fun. I know I'm very much in a minority here, though!


Agreed! I mean, how often do you find gaming rules about which player has the more extravagant moustache?!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 22:37:35


Post by: Overread


The issue with the AoS rules wasn't that they were joke rules - is that they were the only rules. I've always held that they'd have been fine alongside regular rules just like Magic the Gathering Unhinged works alongside regular Magic.




And a well earned retirement for Jervis! For all the ups and down he's been one who has brought fantastic joy, passion, dedication, and sparked the creative minds of generations through his contributions to GW through a myriad of games


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 22:47:31


Post by: Cronch


At only 62? I thought it's 65 or so in the UK?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 23:11:42


Post by: Pilum


Atronch 799661 11171473 null]At only 62? I thought it's 65 or so in the UK?

That or thereabouts is the 'official', claim-your-state-pension age, though if you've got the money (like my former manager) there's nothing stopping you living off your investments earlier. And let's face it, what with stock options and the like I doubt Jervis is looking for pennies down the back of the settee.

Hope he has a fun time, he's given me enough of them.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 23:37:07


Post by: Londinium


Racerguy180 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?

He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.

Good nuff reason for me.


Ah we've found one of the 7 squat fans from 1997!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 23:38:17


Post by: stratigo


Cronch wrote:
At only 62? I thought it's 65 or so in the UK?


I suspect JJ is invested in the company and has made quite the tidy profit these last few years.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/13 23:44:44


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?




?


seriously though always a shame when one of the greats goes. I wonder if he's totally gone or GW has offered him some sort of consulting retainer just so he can talk shop and offers imput when so desired.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 00:13:36


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Racerguy180 wrote:
He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.
I thought he gave a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why Squats did not get further development in 40k.

 Arschbombe wrote:
I'm sure he rolled on a random table to determine when/how he would retire.
Ok that's actually funny.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 00:57:19


Post by: Racerguy180


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.
I thought he gave a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why Squats did not get further development in 40k.

Doesn't make it ok. I invested a hell of a lot effort earning the $ to pay for my squats. It's kinda a bs reason, in whfb Dwarves we're fleshed out and Squats we're given plenty of effort in epic & such.

Forgive me if I'm a Lil perturbed towards him. Personal perspective and all that. I ditched 40k after they said just use them as guard auxilia and his "explanation" just peeved me further and delayed my return to the game. I really liked my Salamanders, but loved my Squats and invested a chunk of time into them for them to just be unceremoniously eaten by an unnamed hive fleet. So when they were just dropped m it felt all kinds of bad.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 01:25:06


Post by: posermcbogus


Man, this is a shame. Hope he has a baller retirement now he's got stacks of nuGW cash, but it's definitely a little sad to see him go, especially with how much he shaped the 40k universe, especially at its inception. Hope we still get chances to grab his artwork, his stuff for Chaos and Eldar is really classic.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 01:39:35


Post by: Grot 6


"Even in Retirement, He still Serves...."

Warts and All, Johnson is one of ours. I didn't always agree with him, but he was there for the long march.

Welcome to the club, Old Man!

[Thumb - gw-99110101321-0.jpg]


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 01:42:04


Post by: Voss


I thought he had retired from working on the games ages ago.

Just did the odd personal preference('spirit of the game') columns in white dwarf.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 01:53:15


Post by: BrianDavion


Racerguy180 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.
I thought he gave a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why Squats did not get further development in 40k.

Doesn't make it ok. I invested a hell of a lot effort earning the $ to pay for my squats. It's kinda a bs reason, in whfb Dwarves we're fleshed out and Squats we're given plenty of effort in epic & such.

Forgive me if I'm a Lil perturbed towards him. Personal perspective and all that. I ditched 40k after they said just use them as guard auxilia and his "explanation" just peeved me further and delayed my return to the game. I really liked my Salamanders, but loved my Squats and invested a chunk of time into them for them to just be unceremoniously eaten by an unnamed hive fleet. So when they were just dropped m it felt all kinds of bad.



I doubt the decision was his alone, he's just the guy who explained why the decision was made.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 02:00:05


Post by: Bob Lorgar


It would be hard for me to name a nicer, more generous person I have ever met.

Before there was the Dakka bulletin Board, or Warseer, or any of the others, there was the 40k Mailing List, run by Edwin Voskamp and Chris Bickford. It was the mid 90's, when 2nd edition was just getting going, and my chosen faction did not yet have a Codex - it was too new of a concept. I used to post a lot on the List, and my signature was "Every day I pray for the Codex: Chaos". Always typed at the end of every email, never a file.It also happens that at the time, several of the GW studio members lurked on the List. They did not post often, but they were in fact listening.

In the summer of 1996, we had a big gathering of the List at the Baltimore Games Day. We reserved a bunch of rooms at a local hotel, rented out their hall in the evenings to play, and went as a big group (with t-shirts, and I still have mine) to Games Day. Jervis was one of the guests, and we all went to meet him as a group. He actually pulled me aside, and to my delight and wonder, gave me what I think was the very first copy of the 2nd Edition Chaos Codex anyone had outside of GW itself, signed by the entire studio.Later, he came by the hotel just to hang out for a bit with a group of hardcore fans from all across the country.

And that's just one instance of his kindness. When he later found out that I did not have a copy of either of the Realm of Chaos books, he actually mailed me one of each from the studio's stash. The Slaves to Darkness book actually has a sticker on the front that says "Rik's Copy" (yes, i know there's a c missing - but that's what it says). When I asked him if it was what I thought, he told me that yes, it was in fact Rick Priestley's desk copy, but not to worry because he'd got Rick a fresh set from their storeroom. It's a gift I treasure to this day.

When my brother and I did a two week tour of England and Scotland in 2002, we stopped by Nottingham just to say hi and take Jervis out to lunch. He actually took the time out of his busy day and offered to take us on a tour of the Studio and the Specialist Games section where he was stationed at the time.

Jervis Johnson, I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful time off, you deserve it.

Graham



Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 02:27:42


Post by: gorgon


Racerguy180 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.
I thought he gave a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why Squats did not get further development in 40k.

Doesn't make it ok. I invested a hell of a lot effort earning the $ to pay for my squats. It's kinda a bs reason, in whfb Dwarves we're fleshed out and Squats we're given plenty of effort in epic & such.

Forgive me if I'm a Lil perturbed towards him. Personal perspective and all that. I ditched 40k after they said just use them as guard auxilia and his "explanation" just peeved me further and delayed my return to the game. I really liked my Salamanders, but loved my Squats and invested a chunk of time into them for them to just be unceremoniously eaten by an unnamed hive fleet. So when they were just dropped m it felt all kinds of bad.


Well, that's certainly holding a grudge like a Dwarf, seeing as it's been... 25 years?

@Bob Lorgar - great post.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 02:52:12


Post by: silent25


That job posting for a new AoS Lead Designer was likely tied to Jervis' retirement decision. Given there are no real new faces on the AoS team with release of third, it was an internal promotion.

Was probably sitting on a nice nest egg depending on how much GW stock he's accrued over the years. Likely looked at all the lockdown and decided he wanted to get out and enjoy the world before he got too old too.

Wish him a long and enjoyable retirement, but not sad to see him go. Didn't agree with his thoughts on gaming and game design. While he could make very fun games, he never made balanced games.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 03:42:02


Post by: Racerguy180




Well, that's certainly holding a grudge like a Dwarf, seeing as it's been... 25 years?

And one wonders why I used to play them in every game I could....


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 05:29:14


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, he has not been always everybody’s darling.
Remember the word Jervisification? It has had a bad taste.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 06:01:24


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 wuestenfux wrote:
Remember the word Jervisification? It has had a bad taste.
I'm pretty sure I coined that phrase.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 07:11:23


Post by: wuestenfux


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Remember the word Jervisification? It has had a bad taste.
I'm pretty sure I coined that phrase.

Great!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 07:42:19


Post by: PaddyMick


Great story Bob!

This thread got me thinking about some of the other old guard... where are they now?

Andy Chambers is still designing games and has a facebook page, but what about your man Tuomas or Gav Thorpe? I'd start a thread but with this being dakka someone has probably done one already...


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 07:45:41


Post by: Cronch


stratigo wrote:
Cronch wrote:
At only 62? I thought it's 65 or so in the UK?


I suspect JJ is invested in the company and has made quite the tidy profit these last few years.

Ah so he's not retiring yet just going to live off his capital investments till the retirement age, thanks for clearing it up. I was confused and forgot rich people exist for a second.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 08:23:54


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?


I'd rather roll a dice to see how many dice I roll on the table of random Jerviswellox



Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 08:27:02


Post by: Sarouan


Like him or hate him, he has definitely put his mark on GW's games.

38 years in miniature games...that's still quite the career. And yeah...still makes something in the heart when someone you always knew was around when you started playing finally leaves.

Retired from his job at GW doesn't mean he'll stop playing or making games, though.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 08:28:37


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 bullyboy wrote:
Pretty much makes this WD a must buy. So much nostalgia....especially the old BRs. Oh, how many WDs have i thrown away in my years.....


I know, I may have to mail order it!

@Bob Lorgar - awesome story!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 09:01:27


Post by: MarkNorfolk


Fare the Well Jervis, and good luck!

I've fond memories of being part of the epic 4th edition/Armageddon community and being on that forum and attending events at WHW.


And Gav Thorpe - old guard? I've still got him down as 'Trainee Game Designer'.



Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 09:08:40


Post by: feugan


Everyone is of course entitled to form their own considered opinion of somebody so influential on the hobby, but I would like to share another story of Jervis being great.

In 1995/6 (deep in 2nd edition territory) I was in senior school, deeply invested in Epic Space Marine and the forerunner of Battlefleet Gothic, Space Fleet. I worked for a pittance in a newsagents to fund getting hold of every metal Imperial and Eldar ship but this wasn’t enough, and my friends and I built an expanded paper system featuring Orks, Marines and Genestealer hulks. I dreamed of a ‘big box’ Space Fleet with rules like Epic, and chose to create a mock up of that hoped-for game box as my GCSE graphic design piece.

This was before Photoshop was widely taught, so it was sketchbooks, airbrushes and markers all the way.

I wrote a long and likely fanboyish letter to Jervis at ‘Lenton Towers’ and he responded with a 2 page design brief, good quality logos and a heap of encouragement. It was surely above and beyond to even answer teenage fan mail, but that brief made the project.

I met him several years later at a studio open day and he asked if I was working in graphic design - no, by then I was a junior doctor - and he leafed through a couple of Jes Goodwin’s sketch books with me. It was clear he loved all the “what if..?” questions each detail raised.

I hope he enjoys retirement tremendously. I don’t know if he has children of his own, but think how many of us he has directly or indirectly inspired, or given months of entertainment too, exploring the worlds of Warhammer?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 09:51:57


Post by: Pacific


Racerguy180 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?

He was extremely blasé about the Squattening.

Good nuff reason for me.


This is incorrect, actually the opposite is true.

The blasé treatment you are referring to did happen, but it was the White Dwarf editorial replying to a letter from a fan asking what happened to the Squats. You can find the letter online if you search for it, I think it was probably meant to just be a throwaway comment but it ended up misreading the room and went down like a lead balloon with the community.
I think perhaps because of Jervis being aware of the Squat fans feeling a bit hard done by, he actually wrote quite a long letter and explanation for what happened to the Squats and why they were discontinued. It was entirely reasonable and laid out what had happened, and was written from the perspective of someone who knew it was a sore subject - i.e. it was done to appease. I forget where it was originally published, but again it is referenceable online fairly easily.

As another example of where Jervis was the good guy at one point GW were going to completely shelve Specialist Games; Jervis reportedly took on the maintenance of the rules, website etc. entirely on his own back and on top of his other responsibilities just so those games could persist and because he knew how popular they were with the veteran fan community. He didn't have to do that, but he did because he cared.
I know some years later they did get taken down anyway (in retrospect it might have been because relaunches were starting to get planned) but they did persist for many years more than they would have otherwise.

GW-corporate have at times been extremely insensitive towards the fan community, but Jervis was the absolute opposite of that and took action to engage whenever he had the opportunity.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 10:03:00


Post by: Vovin


Here is a link to the letter Pacific was referring to:
https://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=70533.0


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 10:32:17


Post by: Dysartes


Shame to see him go - I remember interacting him him online a bit after EpicA was released, as I did an amateur proofread of the book after it was published, and send in a long list of inconsistencies - which did get cleared up in an FAQ, and I think I was thanked in it.

When I went down to Warhammer World a little after that, he took the time to do an interview with me for my website at the time - pretty sure he'd had to bring his kids in at the same time, so full credit to the guy. He even signed my copy of E:A for me, too.

You might not always like some of the stuff he designed, or agree with his principles when it comes to game design, but he genuinely always struck me as a top bloke.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 10:42:03


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Pacific wrote:


This is incorrect, actually the opposite is true.

The blasé treatment you are referring to did happen, but it was the White Dwarf editorial replying to a letter from a fan asking what happened to the Squats. You can find the letter online if you search for it, I think it was probably meant to just be a throwaway comment but it ended up misreading the room and went down like a lead balloon with the community.
I think perhaps because of Jervis being aware of the Squat fans feeling a bit hard done by, he actually wrote quite a long letter and explanation for what happened to the Squats and why they were discontinued. It was entirely reasonable and laid out what had happened, and was written from the perspective of someone who knew it was a sore subject - i.e. it was done to appease. I forget where it was originally published, but again it is referenceable online fairly easily.


I remember that letter, Citadel Journal early 2000s IIRC.

He explained the behind the scenes reasoning (going out of his way to point out it was not sales alone that drove the decision but more lack of enthusiasm) and suggested alternatives. Granted the alternatives were 'count as IG or count as Orks') but it was a lot better than the snarky tone and Stalinist rewriting of GW central (they actually edited an old story to take out a squat character).

I'm a squat fan, and I have no malice towards Jervis.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 10:57:02


Post by: beast_gts


 PaddyMick wrote:
but what about your man Tuomas or Gav Thorpe?
Tuomas is doing video games and Gav is an author with some games consulting on the side.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 10:59:22


Post by: Da Boss


Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 11:24:38


Post by: Gimgamgoo


Jervis "forge a narrative" Johnson.
Hope he has a great retirement.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 11:46:06


Post by: stratigo


I mean the main thrust of the well wishing seems to be that jervis was a genuinely good dude, friendly and engaging with fans, which isn’t the case with all the GW people

And being a genuinely friendly person is ultimately more important then if he did the rules good or not.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 12:00:04


Post by: Nazrak


beast_gts wrote:
 PaddyMick wrote:
but what about your man Tuomas or Gav Thorpe?
Tuomas is doing video games and Gav is an author with some games consulting on the side.

Tuomas is knocking around on Facebook as Brutal Deluxe Game Design, and Gav's pretty active on twitter, so they've far from dropped entirely off the radar.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 12:16:33


Post by: Sunny Side Up


 Da Boss wrote:
Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Sure. But he also ended up essentially in the same job for 30 years, doing game design with an every rotating cast of mid-20s to mid-30s guys on the cramped open-plan office desks next to him and no "career" or "promotion" since the days of Tony Blair.

Maybe he had some nice GW stock and/or a favourable contract from the early, early, early days and didn't need/want it, but he certainly never got to anywhere "important" in GW from a business perspective.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 13:14:55


Post by: Pacific


I know the guy got some stick for some of their army codecies or army books not moving in the direction they wanted, but you have to think of the amount of games which he was credited as a developer. These are simply some of the best games GW has ever made. As much as I enjoy some of the later stuff like Warcry, it pales in comparison to those games: Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, Epic, Necromunda etc. I think he was involved in a few of the earlier WHFB versions too.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Pacific wrote:


This is incorrect, actually the opposite is true.

The blasé treatment you are referring to did happen, but it was the White Dwarf editorial replying to a letter from a fan asking what happened to the Squats. You can find the letter online if you search for it, I think it was probably meant to just be a throwaway comment but it ended up misreading the room and went down like a lead balloon with the community.
I think perhaps because of Jervis being aware of the Squat fans feeling a bit hard done by, he actually wrote quite a long letter and explanation for what happened to the Squats and why they were discontinued. It was entirely reasonable and laid out what had happened, and was written from the perspective of someone who knew it was a sore subject - i.e. it was done to appease. I forget where it was originally published, but again it is referenceable online fairly easily.


I remember that letter, Citadel Journal early 2000s IIRC.

He explained the behind the scenes reasoning (going out of his way to point out it was not sales alone that drove the decision but more lack of enthusiasm) and suggested alternatives. Granted the alternatives were 'count as IG or count as Orks') but it was a lot better than the snarky tone and Stalinist rewriting of GW central (they actually edited an old story to take out a squat character).

I'm a squat fan, and I have no malice towards Jervis.


Nor me, and I had an actual Squat army in 2nd ed (yes, I was one of those..)

Vovin wrote:Here is a link to the letter Pacific was referring to:
https://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=70533.0


Thanks man


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 14:17:25


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Sure. But he also ended up essentially in the same job for 30 years, doing game design with an every rotating cast of mid-20s to mid-30s guys on the cramped open-plan office desks next to him and no "career" or "promotion" since the days of Tony Blair.

Maybe he had some nice GW stock and/or a favourable contract from the early, early, early days and didn't need/want it, but he certainly never got to anywhere "important" in GW from a business perspective.


Alternate take, he spent decades doing a job he loved, touched the childhoods (and er, adulthoods) of millions and is retiring to a well-deserved rest.

Probably doing better than I will.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 14:28:41


Post by: Overread


Yeah not everyone wants or needs to "rise to the top" to get a fulfilling life. Lets face it he has spent years playing with toys and making games and like as not having a great time doing much of it.

Would that we all could be so lucky to work in a job we are passionate about.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 14:53:56


Post by: privateer4hire


Congratulations to him on retirement. Will he be doing the Warlord tour next, I wonder.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 14:54:26


Post by: gorgon


Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Sure. But he also ended up essentially in the same job for 30 years, doing game design with an every rotating cast of mid-20s to mid-30s guys on the cramped open-plan office desks next to him and no "career" or "promotion" since the days of Tony Blair.

Maybe he had some nice GW stock and/or a favourable contract from the early, early, early days and didn't need/want it, but he certainly never got to anywhere "important" in GW from a business perspective.


He was a creative professional and not a business manager. It's not a path that leads you to become CEO or COO or CFO or head of sales. And as others have said, I imagine he had zero desire to spend his days worrying about EBITDA.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 17:46:04


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Bob Lorgar wrote:
It would be hard for me to name a nicer, more generous person I have ever met.

Before there was the Dakka bulletin Board, or Warseer, or any of the others, there was the 40k Mailing List, run by Edwin Voskamp and Chris Bickford. It was the mid 90's, when 2nd edition was just getting going, and my chosen faction did not yet have a Codex - it was too new of a concept. I used to post a lot on the List, and my signature was "Every day I pray for the Codex: Chaos". Always typed at the end of every email, never a file.It also happens that at the time, several of the GW studio members lurked on the List. They did not post often, but they were in fact listening.

In the summer of 1996, we had a big gathering of the List at the Baltimore Games Day. We reserved a bunch of rooms at a local hotel, rented out their hall in the evenings to play, and went as a big group (with t-shirts, and I still have mine) to Games Day. Jervis was one of the guests, and we all went to meet him as a group. He actually pulled me aside, and to my delight and wonder, gave me what I think was the very first copy of the 2nd Edition Chaos Codex anyone had outside of GW itself, signed by the entire studio.Later, he came by the hotel just to hang out for a bit with a group of hardcore fans from all across the country.

And that's just one instance of his kindness. When he later found out that I did not have a copy of either of the Realm of Chaos books, he actually mailed me one of each from the studio's stash. The Slaves to Darkness book actually has a sticker on the front that says "Rik's Copy" (yes, i know there's a c missing - but that's what it says). When I asked him if it was what I thought, he told me that yes, it was in fact Rick Priestley's desk copy, but not to worry because he'd got Rick a fresh set from their storeroom. It's a gift I treasure to this day.

When my brother and I did a two week tour of England and Scotland in 2002, we stopped by Nottingham just to say hi and take Jervis out to lunch. He actually took the time out of his busy day and offered to take us on a tour of the Studio and the Specialist Games section where he was stationed at the time.

Jervis Johnson, I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful time off, you deserve it.

Graham



great memories there


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 18:08:37


Post by: Cronch


 gorgon wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Sure. But he also ended up essentially in the same job for 30 years, doing game design with an every rotating cast of mid-20s to mid-30s guys on the cramped open-plan office desks next to him and no "career" or "promotion" since the days of Tony Blair.

Maybe he had some nice GW stock and/or a favourable contract from the early, early, early days and didn't need/want it, but he certainly never got to anywhere "important" in GW from a business perspective.


He was a creative professional and not a business manager. It's not a path that leads you to become CEO or COO or CFO or head of sales. And as others have said, I imagine he had zero desire to spend his days worrying about EBITDA.

Imagine being the kind of person that wants to become a chief executive anything...no thanks.
I don't even know where the argument came from, no one stays at the same position/company for 30 years unless they feel comfortable with it.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 18:18:40


Post by: Strg Alt


I personally thank JJ for Blood Bowl and Space Marine (early Epic). His battle reports with Andy Chambers were always great.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/14 22:04:54


Post by: soviet13


He's helped make the games and worlds we all know and love, he's engaged with the fan community even when it wasn't fashionable to do so, and he's clearly well thought of by the people he worked with. And after more than 30 years he probably still can't win a battle report to save his life.

Jervis Johnson, I salute you!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 00:07:39


Post by: wuestenfux


 Strg Alt wrote:
I personally thank JJ for Blood Bowl and Space Marine (early Epic). His battle reports with Andy Chambers were always great.

No. I liked the battle reports with Gav. As far as I remember he never won a single game. Funny.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 00:22:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


First BatRep I ever read was him getting a draw with Jake Thornton.

Also the origin of what eventually became the Eversor Assassin.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 02:28:17


Post by: stratigo


 gorgon wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Sure. But he also ended up essentially in the same job for 30 years, doing game design with an every rotating cast of mid-20s to mid-30s guys on the cramped open-plan office desks next to him and no "career" or "promotion" since the days of Tony Blair.

Maybe he had some nice GW stock and/or a favourable contract from the early, early, early days and didn't need/want it, but he certainly never got to anywhere "important" in GW from a business perspective.


He was a creative professional and not a business manager. It's not a path that leads you to become CEO or COO or CFO or head of sales. And as others have said, I imagine he had zero desire to spend his days worrying about EBITDA.


Also, being a nice dude pretty much precludes you from being a successful business exec.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 04:56:53


Post by: alphaecho


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
First BatRep I ever read was him getting a draw with Jake Thornton.

Also the origin of what eventually became the Eversor Assassin.


Was that 2nd Ed Ultramarine vs Orks?

I remember the assassin in that one took out the original plastic Battlewagon with melta bombs whilst on Combat Drugs. Didn't he then explode himself? I'm currently 3000 miles and five months away from my White Dwarf Battle Report Compendium so I can't check.

I used to love Wargear cards. I used to enjoy jump packing a Commissar with a Vortex Grenade across the battlefield.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 05:17:43


Post by: H.B.M.C.


White Dwarf 175. That is the bat rep you're thinking of. Assassin with Meltabombs, Power Sword and Combi-Weapon. And the Marine Captain that held the entire right flank against the Orks.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 06:09:57


Post by: schoon


The hobby is a smaller place without him in it, and his game designs will continue to give joy to many for years to come.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 08:35:20


Post by: wuestenfux


''Past clarifies everything.'' Die Vergangenheit verklärt alles.
He definitely has his merits, but there also remains some bad taste as coined by the word jervisification, which should enter the Cambridge dictionary.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 10:53:34


Post by: BrianDavion


 wuestenfux wrote:
''Past clarifies everything.'' Die Vergangenheit verklärt alles.
He definitely has his merits, but there also remains some bad taste as coined by the word jervisification, which should enter the Cambridge dictionary.


ok what the feth does jervisification mean because I gooogled it and all it finds is a post you made in 2009.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 10:54:48


Post by: alphaecho


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
White Dwarf 175. That is the bat rep you're thinking of. Assassin with Meltabombs, Power Sword and Combi-Weapon. And the Marine Captain that held the entire right flank against the Orks.


The Marine Captain that. with its relative simplicity, is still one of my favourite Marine models.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 10:56:15


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
ok what the feth does jervisification mean because I gooogled it and all it finds is a post you made in 2009.
Took a while, but I found my post from 2010:

Jervis [Jer-viss] Jer-vised, Jer-vis-i-fy, Jer-vis-i-fied, Jer-vis-i-fi-ca-tion
–verb
1. to remove options inherent in a list. // 2. to reduce existing sub-lists into a single list. // 3. To triple (or more) the amount of Special Characters in a Codex. // 4. To take away. // 5. To give what isn't wanted nor needed.

Origin: Mid-1980's, England, Nottingham

Synonyms: Bland, Blandify, Codex: Dark Angels (4th Edition)

Antonyms: Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 Edition)


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 11:42:14


Post by: Pacific


On the 'not getting promoted' thing, it might have been that he didn't want to follow the path of Rick Priestly. Remember hearing from someone that worked within the company that basically he got promoted to the point where he was just sat in an office and with no input into the games or systems any more. It wasn't where he wanted to be and so he left (and has since gone on to work with Warlord Games etc.) So, seeing as how much Jervis obviously enjoyed being involved with the games and community, you can see why he wouldn't want that.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Bob Lorgar wrote:
It would be hard for me to name a nicer, more generous person I have ever met.

Before there was the Dakka bulletin Board, or Warseer, or any of the others, there was the 40k Mailing List, run by Edwin Voskamp and Chris Bickford. It was the mid 90's, when 2nd edition was just getting going, and my chosen faction did not yet have a Codex - it was too new of a concept. I used to post a lot on the List, and my signature was "Every day I pray for the Codex: Chaos". Always typed at the end of every email, never a file.It also happens that at the time, several of the GW studio members lurked on the List. They did not post often, but they were in fact listening.

In the summer of 1996, we had a big gathering of the List at the Baltimore Games Day. We reserved a bunch of rooms at a local hotel, rented out their hall in the evenings to play, and went as a big group (with t-shirts, and I still have mine) to Games Day. Jervis was one of the guests, and we all went to meet him as a group. He actually pulled me aside, and to my delight and wonder, gave me what I think was the very first copy of the 2nd Edition Chaos Codex anyone had outside of GW itself, signed by the entire studio.Later, he came by the hotel just to hang out for a bit with a group of hardcore fans from all across the country.

And that's just one instance of his kindness. When he later found out that I did not have a copy of either of the Realm of Chaos books, he actually mailed me one of each from the studio's stash. The Slaves to Darkness book actually has a sticker on the front that says "Rik's Copy" (yes, i know there's a c missing - but that's what it says). When I asked him if it was what I thought, he told me that yes, it was in fact Rick Priestley's desk copy, but not to worry because he'd got Rick a fresh set from their storeroom. It's a gift I treasure to this day.

When my brother and I did a two week tour of England and Scotland in 2002, we stopped by Nottingham just to say hi and take Jervis out to lunch. He actually took the time out of his busy day and offered to take us on a tour of the Studio and the Specialist Games section where he was stationed at the time.

Jervis Johnson, I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful time off, you deserve it.

Graham



great memories there


That is such a great post

My own very limited recollection was writing to GW (prob 1991 or 1992) with a question about the Epic Space Marine rules. Actually got a hand-written reply from Jervis explaining the rule and why it worked in a certain way.

He must have had such a love for the hobby and also again that streak of kindness and wanting to help people that were fans of the game.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 12:18:05


Post by: Shooter


Cronch wrote:
stratigo wrote:
Cronch wrote:
At only 62? I thought it's 65 or so in the UK?


I suspect JJ is invested in the company and has made quite the tidy profit these last few years.

Ah so he's not retiring yet just going to live off his capital investments till the retirement age, thanks for clearing it up. I was confused and forgot rich people exist for a second.


Might be a language divide here. He is retiring. You can retire at any age. You can retire at 20 if you've got the money to live off. 'Retirement' and 'retirement age' are two different things and you can do the former before you reach the latter. Retirement age is just when the state pension (and generally private pensions depending on what you do with them) kick in


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 12:21:11


Post by: Zenithfleet


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
ok what the feth does jervisification mean because I gooogled it and all it finds is a post you made in 2009.
Took a while, but I found my post from 2010:

Jervis [Jer-viss] Jer-vised, Jer-vis-i-fy, Jer-vis-i-fied, Jer-vis-i-fi-ca-tion
–verb
1. to remove options inherent in a list. // 2. to reduce existing sub-lists into a single list. // 3. To triple (or more) the amount of Special Characters in a Codex. // 4. To take away. // 5. To give what isn't wanted nor needed.

Origin: Mid-1980's, England, Nottingham

Synonyms: Bland, Blandify, Codex: Dark Angels (4th Edition)

Antonyms: Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 Edition)


Your 2010 self left out the most infamous jervisification in GW history: Epic 3rd edition (Epic 40,000)!

Which I approved of, but a lot of people didn't.

But it later led to Battlefleet Gothic, so let's call it a draw.


I have no personal memories of JJ (being all the way down in the southern hemisphere), but I liked pretty much everything he worked on.

WFB original Undead army book (fantastic fluff)

WFB original Dark Elf army book (slightly less fantastic fluff but a good read anyway)

2nd ed Codex Orks

The first worldwide campaign - Ichar IV for 2nd ed 40K, featuring the Tyranids getting clobbered and Jervis sitting on the floor of his office surrounded by kids' hand-drawn battle reports sent in from all over

The second worldwide campaign (that seems to have been quietly forgotten) - the Battle for Antoch during early 5th ed WFB

Epic 40,000

Epic Armageddon

Necromunda

The 'Wargame Series' trilogy of boardgames - Battle for Armageddon, Horus Heresy and Doom of the Eldar
... plus the hilarious little free Warmaster cut-out-and-play game in White Dwarf (oops I teleported Sanguinius into the engines again...)

Keeping the old games alive via Fanatic and later Specialist Games

Tournament rules for 2nd ed 40K

... and many more.

Never played Blood Bowl, but I've heard nothing but good things about it.

It's a shame to see JJ go.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/15 21:34:14


Post by: Pariah Press


I've had a lot of fun playing the games he designed over the years. I hope he enjoys his retirement!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/16 07:27:53


Post by: wuestenfux


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
ok what the feth does jervisification mean because I gooogled it and all it finds is a post you made in 2009.
Took a while, but I found my post from 2010:

Jervis [Jer-viss] Jer-vised, Jer-vis-i-fy, Jer-vis-i-fied, Jer-vis-i-fi-ca-tion
–verb
1. to remove options inherent in a list. // 2. to reduce existing sub-lists into a single list. // 3. To triple (or more) the amount of Special Characters in a Codex. // 4. To take away. // 5. To give what isn't wanted nor needed.

Origin: Mid-1980's, England, Nottingham

Synonyms: Bland, Blandify, Codex: Dark Angels (4th Edition)

Antonyms: Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 Edition)

Very nice!

I remember the 4th ed DA codex and it has been really disappointing.
JJ has been the sole author.

In opposition to this, the 3.5th ed CSM codex has been one of the best codices ever.
It has been written by 5 authors (without JJ).


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/16 15:07:21


Post by: Platuan4th


 wuestenfux wrote:

I remember the 4th ed DA codex and it has been really disappointing.
JJ has been the sole author.


That's not actually true. The book still had multiple authors, that's just the time they started only listing the head writer for each book instead of the entire team.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/16 21:35:32


Post by: Soundtheory


 Platuan4th wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:

I remember the 4th ed DA codex and it has been really disappointing.
JJ has been the sole author.


That's not actually true. The book still had multiple authors, that's just the time they started only listing the head writer for each book instead of the entire team.


It does seem everyone who's come to this thread to try to throw some shade at Mr. Johnson and his accomplishments has had some facet of their complaint/axe to grind wrong.... imagine that.

The man wrote some fun games, gave a lot of folks in this hobby joy, and seemed genuinely great to the fans who got to meet him in person. And he did it for thirty years. My hat is off to him, may he enjoy many great years of retirement!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/16 21:52:15


Post by: Graphite


Well, Jervis, happy retirement and may your dice always roll well.

I will be amazed if this is the last we ever hear from you in the wargames world.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/16 23:40:58


Post by: Resting One


Wrong thread


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 04:21:01


Post by: Azreal13


I've been conflicted about this. On one hand he's a significant part of one of my fondest periods of being a Wargamer. On the other, he participated in or oversaw some of the things that I've come to most dislike.

I guess, for me, he's been the wargaming equivalent of "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 05:02:38


Post by: H.B.M.C.


May he forever be playing the games he loves, but be always stuck having to make 5+ rolls.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 05:20:03


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Chikout wrote:
Given the lead times on White Dwarf, he has already retired. I wonder who the new AoS lead designer will be. They were advertising for the job a few months ago and I thought it was weird at the time. It might even be Sam (formerly of this parish) Pearson.
Everything he has touched has been awesome, I'd be SO down for this.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 05:37:08


Post by: Jammer87


Yeah I miss Bottle. Although I do play everything he has come out with.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 15:07:11


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 Azreal13 wrote:
I've been conflicted about this. On one hand he's a significant part of one of my fondest periods of being a Wargamer. On the other, he participated in or oversaw some of the things that I've come to most dislike.

I guess, for me, he's been the wargaming equivalent of "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."


I imagine you'd have to random roll on a table to resolve the hero villain narrative


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 15:14:54


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Currently reading the latest WD, and there are a few articles about and by Jervis.

Whilst you might not agree with his various design decisions (Epic 40K is glossed over entirely…..dirty boy), I don’t think anyone can deny his massive influence on war gaming as a whole.

Sure he only ever worked for GW. But being the big fish in the pond, his approach has echoed down to pretty much everyone else.

Long May he enjoy his retirement. It’s been well earned.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 15:39:06


Post by: streetsamurai


For those that know GW history better than i do, is there a reason or a moment that changed JJ design philosophy? Unless I'm mistaken, his latter rules seems to give a lot importance to the concept of "simplicity" or stream lining, while it certainly wasnt the case for his older rules (necromunda for example)


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 15:51:55


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Player feedback would seem to be the main reason, having just read the articles.

It’s the sort of vicious circle of popular skirmish game, models people want to collect, and the initial rules not catering to larger collections, leading to the main rules being revised to cater to the larger collections, which people field, whilst continuing to collect ad Infinitum.

Stripping them down is probably a lot harder than we might think. I still hold up 3rd Ed 40K as a “baby with the bath water” error of judgement, in that whilst significantly easier and quicker to play than 2nd Ed, it was at the expense of the game actually being fun.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 21:28:56


Post by: aphyon


Little late to this topic-good riddance...just about a decade and a half to late to matter. he may have had some positive involvement in GW games generally but he is the main instigator of almost everything bad that was put into 5th edition rules wise. and his explanations for those decisions were GAK at best. you will find no love or nostalgia for Jervis here, total an Andy chambers fanboy though if that counts.



Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/17 22:03:09


Post by: Grot 6


 Vovin wrote:
Here is a link to the letter Pacific was referring to:
https://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=70533.0


And here is a Primary Source for Johnson's discussion on the topic.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060129002420/http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic/forum_b/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2532&whichpage=3


Remember kids, Johnson was the mouthpiece, he wasn't the decision maker. That was one of the reasons we had such a love/ hate relationship with him.

That he was the obligatory face to the impersonal decisions being made in the white tower.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 00:55:25


Post by: Just Tony


Does this mean we no longer have to "forge the narrative" nor feel bad about competitive play?



While BFG was indeed a blessing Jervis was responsible for quite a bit of garbage tier work. Unless someone wants to actually DEFEND the 3rd Ed. Guard codex.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 06:45:25


Post by: wuestenfux


Does this mean we no longer have to "forge the narrative" nor feel bad about competitive play?

At GW Hamburg I, I met a new young employee who was very aware of forging the narrative but of the game/armies themselves.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 09:29:04


Post by: Zenithfleet


 streetsamurai wrote:
For those that know GW history better than i do, is there a reason or a moment that changed JJ design philosophy? Unless I'm mistaken, his latter rules seems to give a lot importance to the concept of "simplicity" or stream lining, while it certainly wasnt the case for his older rules (necromunda for example)


Jervis has been a fan of 'streamlined and elegant' game design from a long way back. By 1990 at least. Here's a quote from the Epic 40,000 Battles Book. (Andy Chambers wrote this section. Emphasis added.)


"Epic 40,000 started out as a system called Heresy which was penned by Jervis Johnson just after he had written Adeptus Titanicus [1st edition]. I played Heresy when I joined the Studio in 1990 and rather liked it in spite of being initially horrified by its apparent simplicity. We spent the following six years developing Adeptus Titanicus instead before realising that the Titanicus system was simply too detailed to handle large scale battles. ...

When the opportunity arose to do a new Epic game we decided to totally revise the game using the old Heresy rules as a starting point."


Well, we know how that turned out...

If anything, the Epic 40,000 debacle forced Jervis to reassess his own love of elegant design, and come to terms with the fact that a lot of players like chrome and bling. And so Epic Armageddon was born. Meeting the fans halfway, as it were. There's some frank discussion of it in the Epic 40K Magazines but unfortunately I don't have them to hand.

Necromunda 1st edition is an odd one because it had to be based on 2nd ed 40K's core rules, which was Rick Priestley's design rather than Jervis's. I doubt JJ had much chance to jervisify it.

 aphyon wrote:
you will find no love or nostalgia for Jervis here, total an Andy chambers fanboy though if that counts.


I love Andy C's work on the fluff, but I reckon Jervis is/was a better designer of 'simple yet deep' core game systems. Andy tended to overcomplicate things with special rules and exceptions. Or, conversely, he'd strip too much out of the game when streamlining and have to awkwardly bolt it all on again later (cough 3rd ed 40K cough).

One of the reasons Battlefleet Gothic is so good is that it's based on a core game system by Jervis (Heresy > Epic 40K > BFG), but with a double helping of classic Andy Chambers background and style slathered on top.

Don't get me wrong though--Andy did a great job adapting the ruleset to space battles, with additional elegant mechanics like the shields/blast markers and Brace for Impact rule. The whole thing started with Andy and Jervis using the Epic 40K rules to fight space battles during their Piscina IV campaign.

When developing Epic Armageddon after the failure of Epic 40K, Jervis commented that one factor in BFG's success was Andy C's use of detailed fluff to make the different ship classes in BFG feel more special and unique than they actually were ruleswise. A tank in Epic 40K was just a short statline in a block of similar statlines, and so was an escort ship in BFG. Not a special rule in sight. But the BFG rulebook gave you several paragraphs of fluff on each ship class, full of history and famous ships, rather than just a single-sentence description. I guess you could say it put all the chrome and bling into the background rather than the rules.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 12:23:41


Post by: Cronch


Chambers is responsible for Starship troopers the wargame, which not only was (imo) one of the best squad-based sci-fi wargames I've ever played, but also THE best example of assymetrical gameplay in a wargame. The core rules for Dropfleet Commander are also excellent (and sadly ruined by the horrible land-based element of the game that had to be there for the name to make sense). Both games leave everything GW ever produced far behind in terms of quality imo.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 12:28:31


Post by: Albertorius


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Stripping them down is probably a lot harder than we might think. I still hold up 3rd Ed 40K as a “baby with the bath water” error of judgement, in that whilst significantly easier and quicker to play than 2nd Ed, it was at the expense of the game actually being fun.

I kind of violently disagree with that statement, particularly the last part.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 12:44:57


Post by: wuestenfux


Andy Chambers - for me the smartest guy at GW ever.
I've given also some credit to Gave Thorpe for his Harlie experimental codex (JJ not so much).


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 15:56:02


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Cronch wrote:
Chambers is responsible for Starship troopers the wargame, which not only was (imo) one of the best squad-based sci-fi wargames I've ever played, but also THE best example of assymetrical gameplay in a wargame. The core rules for Dropfleet Commander are also excellent (and sadly ruined by the horrible land-based element of the game that had to be there for the name to make sense). Both games leave everything GW ever produced far behind in terms of quality imo.

I picked up some Dropzone Commander terrain boxes since I really love having portable terrain when travelling. What did you like best about Dropfleet Commander core rules that made it exceptional compared to the ground rules?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 17:42:30


Post by: Cronch


The ground rules are fine, but what I really like about DFC is the signature system where LOS is limited by detection range instead of weapons, and how certain actions boost that so you can fire all your guns in one turn, but your ship will light up for everyone to see, meaning it's likely going to be shot at in return. That and essentially you only roll for critical damage once, when you hit half-HP, instead of trailing paper chits around every time someone dinks you hard enough.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 17:47:56


Post by: Azreal13


How you feel about this article is probably going to depend on your philosophy about wargaming in general. But for anyone who isn't familiar with it, it may help explain why GW never seems to quite get balance right.

[Thumb - IMG_1634.JPG]
[Thumb - IMG_1635.JPG]


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 18:42:38


Post by: Blastaar


 Azreal13 wrote:
How you feel about this article is probably going to depend on your philosophy about wargaming in general. But for anyone who isn't familiar with it, it may help explain why GW never seems to quite get balance right.


This article. One of several things that lead me to conclude that JJ was a less-than-positive influence on the games. In his "later years" with GW, at least. I do think his retirement may be a positive overall.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 18:59:18


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Blastaar wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
How you feel about this article is probably going to depend on your philosophy about wargaming in general. But for anyone who isn't familiar with it, it may help explain why GW never seems to quite get balance right.


This article. One of several things that lead me to conclude that JJ was a less-than-positive influence on the games. In his "later years" with GW, at least. I do think his retirement may be a positive overall.


I hope his retirement doesn't mean that his thoughts brought up in the article leave with him - though 9th edition so far seems to point otherwize unfortunately.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 21:24:38


Post by: silent25


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Jervis ended up in a position as the sort of interface between corporate GW and the fanbase. But a lot of what he did with the specialist games and how he communicated leads me to believe that he was very pro-fan.

And like I said, when I met him he was lovely to everyone at the convention, really patient and polite and genuinely nice to everyone.


Sure. But he also ended up essentially in the same job for 30 years, doing game design with an every rotating cast of mid-20s to mid-30s guys on the cramped open-plan office desks next to him and no "career" or "promotion" since the days of Tony Blair.

Maybe he had some nice GW stock and/or a favourable contract from the early, early, early days and didn't need/want it, but he certainly never got to anywhere "important" in GW from a business perspective.


Alternate take, he spent decades doing a job he loved, touched the childhoods (and er, adulthoods) of millions and is retiring to a well-deserved rest.

Probably doing better than I will.


Yea, it's possible he got the dream job, was able to stay at it for his entire career and then retire with a nice nest egg. I know plenty of people who wish they could have a career like that. Some might give him slack for lack for ambition, but seeing some of the sociopaths that occupy the top offices at my company, I don't blame him for not aiming higher.

Still glad to see him go. As others pointed out, his views of balance and gaming were not necessarily good for the long term health of a game. He wanted to make games for Johnny, but wouldn't acknowledge that Timmy and Spike exist (reference to MtG types of players).

*edit* got names mixed up.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/18 22:43:08


Post by: Dryaktylus


 Azreal13 wrote:
How you feel about this article is probably going to depend on your philosophy about wargaming in general. But for anyone who isn't familiar with it, it may help explain why GW never seems to quite get balance right.


J-Files was always a, well, special column in WD. There was an issue where he talked about special characters and why you shouldn't use them regulary, but the pics in the WD were full of them. At this time, Nigel Stillman was still (...) around and told you things like never changing or adapting your army or use allies. On the other hand you had battle reports with beardy combinations and articles about how to beat your opponents. And it's not like Jervis was a fool or saint in his own battle reports - in a Man'o'War game he added some Nurgle ships to compensate the weakness of the Dark Elves.

Jervis wasn't the head of games design at GW, ever. He created some games on his own (BB, Advanced Space Crusade, Advanced Hero Quest, the Wargame Series) and was involved in others. Regarding Epic 40k, it was primarily Andy Chambers. Same with 40k 3rd edition. He published some experimental Vehicle rules in the Citadel Journal during 2nd edition - it's more or less what we have now, with S, T, W and so on. Looks he didn't had that much influence some people suggest.

I don't know how balanced Warmaster (Rick Priestleys child) was, but Tuomas Pirinen's (a really good gamer) Mordheim was fun but surely unbalanced. Gorkamorka (Chambers and Thorpe) too. Necromunda as well, though kinda better (at least in my memory).


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 03:42:48


Post by: stratigo


Cronch wrote:
Chambers is responsible for Starship troopers the wargame, which not only was (imo) one of the best squad-based sci-fi wargames I've ever played, but also THE best example of assymetrical gameplay in a wargame. The core rules for Dropfleet Commander are also excellent (and sadly ruined by the horrible land-based element of the game that had to be there for the name to make sense). Both games leave everything GW ever produced far behind in terms of quality imo.


Spoken like someone who hasn't seen the light of middle earth sbg


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 03:53:43


Post by: tneva82


 Azreal13 wrote:
How you feel about this article is probably going to depend on your philosophy about wargaming in general. But for anyone who isn't familiar with it, it may help explain why GW never seems to quite get balance right.


Well if you want balance you don't use points. With points you never can get balance. Nor is it its purpose. Purpose for points is quick way to get game set up regardless of balance.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 04:05:29


Post by: Blastaar


tneva82 wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
How you feel about this article is probably going to depend on your philosophy about wargaming in general. But for anyone who isn't familiar with it, it may help explain why GW never seems to quite get balance right.


Well if you want balance you don't use points. With points you never can get balance. Nor is it its purpose. Purpose for points is quick way to get game set up regardless of balance.


Points are part of balance. Points, used correctly, should be a good representation fo a unit's power in-game. Adding points until you reach a list of a desired points limit is not that quick, either.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 06:26:36


Post by: Zenithfleet


This conversation is sprouting heads like a hydra!

Cronch wrote:Chambers is responsible for Starship troopers the wargame, which not only was (imo) one of the best squad-based sci-fi wargames I've ever played, but also THE best example of assymetrical gameplay in a wargame. The core rules for Dropfleet Commander are also excellent (and sadly ruined by the horrible land-based element of the game that had to be there for the name to make sense). Both games leave everything GW ever produced far behind in terms of quality imo.


Fair point. I've heard nothing but good things about the Starship Troopers wargame, and reasonably good things about Dropfleet. Either Andy C's skills have improved over the years, or he was held back by GW management mandates before he left. ("Stop rocking the boat Andy, we can't change THAT!")

Wasn't the Starship Troopers game based on what Andy wanted to do for 4th ed 40K? If so, it implies that he wasn't satisfied with how the 3rd ed 40K system turned out.

Dryaktylus wrote:
J-Files was always a, well, special column in WD. There was an issue where he talked about special characters and why you shouldn't use them regulary, but the pics in the WD were full of them. At this time, Nigel Stillman was still (...) around and told you things like never changing or adapting your army or use allies. On the other hand you had battle reports with beardy combinations and articles about how to beat your opponents. And it's not like Jervis was a fool or saint in his own battle reports - in a Man'o'War game he added some Nurgle ships to compensate the weakness of the Dark Elves.


I always read Nigel Stillman's advice as somewhat tongue in cheek. The one where he said you shouldn't change your army or use allies was part of a slightly silly list suggesting that if you could win games without ever varying your army build, you would undeniably prove that your victories came from PURE UNADULTERATED TACTICAL SKILL and could lord it over your opponent forevermore.

It was definitely the case that, in the 2nd ed 40K and 4th/5th ed WFB days, there was constant friction between players who wanted to play competitively with tight, balanced rules, and players who liked a more freewheeling style where all kinds of strange combos and surprises were possible (but which could be horribly abused). I suppose it's inevitable once you move away from a system that requires a gamesmaster.

Dryaktylus wrote:Jervis wasn't the head of games design at GW, ever. He created some games on his own (BB, Advanced Space Crusade, Advanced Hero Quest, the Wargame Series) and was involved in others. Regarding Epic 40k, it was primarily Andy Chambers. Same with 40k 3rd edition. He published some experimental Vehicle rules in the Citadel Journal during 2nd edition - it's more or less what we have now, with S, T, W and so on. Looks he didn't had that much influence some people suggest.


As quoted above, the core game system of Epic 40K was based on a system Jervis designed (Heresy). How much it was revised for Epic 40K I don't know.

Adeptus Titanicus 1st edition was also by Jervis--a totally different system--and that went on to become Space Marine, Titan Legions, etc. Basically classic Epic in its heyday. Epic 4th edition (Armageddon), yet another system, was also JJ's work.

Didn't Jervis also do the basic AoS rules? Not that that will increase his popularity in some quarters...

Dryaktylus wrote:I don't know how balanced Warmaster (Rick Priestleys child) was, but Tuomas Pirinen's (a really good gamer) Mordheim was fun but surely unbalanced. Gorkamorka (Chambers and Thorpe) too. Necromunda as well, though kinda better (at least in my memory).


Rick Priestley was also involved in Gorkamorka, since it was another game based on 2nd ed 40K's engine. (Apparently Andy Chambers hated working on Gorkamorka.)

The poster child for 'unbalanced as written' was probably Gav's Inquisitor--or so I hear--but that was meant to have a gamesmaster who would look after that end of things, so it doesn't count.

In general I think GW's games have often been designed from a 'mates after hours' viewpoint--a group of regular gamers who know each other and can reach gentlemen's agreements on what to allow and what to veto in order to make things fun for everyone. It's not really a philosophy that lends itself well to pick-up games, or to more competitively minded players. Epic 40K had heaps of cool scenarios and optional rules, but didn't even bother with army restrictions like 'no more than 10% of your points on flyers'; they threw those into a White Dwarf article as an off-the-cuff suggestion.

stratigo wrote:
Spoken like someone who hasn't seen the light of middle earth sbg


Yep, great game! Another Rick Priestley job, too. I'm not sure what the current state of the game is like, but the 2000s version was very much an exemplar of streamlined yet satisfying design.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 06:27:11


Post by: kodos


with points you can have balance, as well as you can have balance without them

difference being scenario based games VS games with fixed lists

the problem here is that the "balance" is always the game system as a whole and not just parts of it

if a game system with points, army roosters that are fixed before you get to know which scenario and opponent you play against, it is part of the balance
if you leave random scenarios out and/or play different ones, you change the balance

there are those games without points were you still have something to determine the size of the game, but what units you chose, how large they are and so on, is not fixed and happens after you know the scenario and whom you play against
same way as some games have a sideboard of units you can exchange, or asymetrical victory conditions for both forces are not the same size


yet points give the illusion of better balance and that it also works if you are only using parts of the rules instead of all


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 07:11:53


Post by: Overread


Lets not let this thread get side tracked into a balance and game building thread. That's really a whole topic unto itself.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 07:49:54


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 Overread wrote:
Lets not let this thread get side tracked into a balance and game building thread. That's really a whole topic unto itself.


it's one if not two subforums, even!

Back on topic, I have no direct experience with JJ, and it's great to see so many people had warm feeling about him. I have watched some of the interviews with him, and I have to wonder if perhaps his leaving is going to open up how the games are developed.

Not that I think he was bad (or good, for that matter) - but I do think that there's innovation to make the games more fun that might be able to happen now. Or I can hope, at least


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 08:35:41


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Good to see him comment in detail on why squats got squatted, but honestly it sounds like the creative team of the day just needed a holiday, or some fresh members.

When the F28: War Always Changes designers did their version of the 40K factions, they added squats back in and had no difficulty making them one of the most characterful factions -- they still have bikers, and airships, but are otherwise focused on entrenching, tunnelling, fortifications, and artillery. Gives them a bit of a WWI vibe but makes them play very differently to anything else -- not much mobility so your strategy has to be very good, but potentially extremely powerful.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 08:40:57


Post by: Cronch


Kharadron are better squats than squats ever could be, so nothing of value was lost.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 08:59:32


Post by: Not Online!!!


Cronch wrote:
Kharadron are better squats than squats ever could be, so nothing of value was lost.



That is an.... thesis certainly.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 09:03:51


Post by: BrianDavion


 kodos wrote:
with points you can have balance, as well as you can have balance without them

difference being scenario based games VS games with fixed lists

the problem here is that the "balance" is always the game system as a whole and not just parts of it

if a game system with points, army roosters that are fixed before you get to know which scenario and opponent you play against, it is part of the balance
if you leave random scenarios out and/or play different ones, you change the balance

there are those games without points were you still have something to determine the size of the game, but what units you chose, how large they are and so on, is not fixed and happens after you know the scenario and whom you play against
same way as some games have a sideboard of units you can exchange, or asymetrical victory conditions for both forces are not the same size


yet points give the illusion of better balance and that it also works if you are only using parts of the rules instead of all


there's also the question of points being purely additive, which doesn't always work in the case of something being a power multiplier.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 09:49:44


Post by: Pacific


I get the feeling here that JJ could literally have created the finest fething wargame ever, made from a melding of him and Rick Priestly into a Super Sayan rules writer (powered by the spirit of HG Wells), and he would still have Dark Angels Codex written on his tomb stone..

Please.. for ... feths .. sake.. let... it.... go

Cronch wrote:Chambers is responsible for Starship troopers the wargame, which not only was (imo) one of the best squad-based sci-fi wargames I've ever played, but also THE best example of assymetrical gameplay in a wargame. The core rules for Dropfleet Commander are also excellent (and sadly ruined by the horrible land-based element of the game that had to be there for the name to make sense). Both games leave everything GW ever produced far behind in terms of quality imo.


SST was an incredible game and a shame it never got the traction it deserved.

Fun fact: It was initially meant to be 40k (I think 4th edition) and Andy Chambers wrote the ruleset with that in mind. But, GW wasn't keen as it was such an overhaul of the previous ruleset, and they had already cottoned on to 'slow twist change of rules', everyone buys new rulebooks and codex every few years' business model that has served them so well since). So, Andy left GW and the rules got put into SST.

Albertorius wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Stripping them down is probably a lot harder than we might think. I still hold up 3rd Ed 40K as a “baby with the bath water” error of judgement, in that whilst significantly easier and quicker to play than 2nd Ed, it was at the expense of the game actually being fun.

I kind of violently disagree with that statement, particularly the last part.


'Fun' is definitely a bit of a value statement and a subjective thing.
I would agree that I have more fun with 2nd Ed/NetEpic because of the way the ordering system and game plays (and especially with some armies, such as Orks or Chaos, which are a riot) than I do playing Armageddon, which is much more strategic and clinical in nature. I have heard the same about 3rd edition (and especially with it being more abstract) but it's the one version I haven't played yet.

Cronch wrote:Kharadron are better squats than squats ever could be, so nothing of value was lost.


Perhaps, but for many of us Epic Squats are the true representation of Squats, with their cool land trains, armoured airships and big guns


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 09:52:38


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Not sure the whole “SST was 40K” thing holds water.

Any development Andy Chambers did whilst working for GW, would belong to GW and not him.

Then, I also understand you can’t actually copyright a rules system?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 09:54:32


Post by: Cronch


That'd depend on the contract surely?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 09:57:44


Post by: Just Tony


 Pacific wrote:
I get the feeling here that JJ could literally have created the finest fething wargame ever, made from a melding of him and Rick Priestly into a Super Sayan rules writer (powered by the spirit of HG Wells), and he would still have Dark Angels Codex written on his tomb stone..

Please.. for ... feths .. sake.. let... it.... go



Build a thousand bridges but feth one goat, see if ANYONE calls you a bridge builder.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 10:30:34


Post by: Geifer


 Just Tony wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I get the feeling here that JJ could literally have created the finest fething wargame ever, made from a melding of him and Rick Priestly into a Super Sayan rules writer (powered by the spirit of HG Wells), and he would still have Dark Angels Codex written on his tomb stone..

Please.. for ... feths .. sake.. let... it.... go



Build a thousand bridges but feth one goat, see if ANYONE calls you a bridge builder.


I approve of this message.

But more seriously, Jervis leans a certain way when it comes to game design and since he (along with the rest of GW's designers) is responsible for creating rules and codifying ways to play the game, it's not surprising that people who are looking at games a different way have issues with his work and may be hopeful for GW games after his involvement in their development ends. It's not the literal 4th ed Dark Angels codex that's blamed when that bit is invoked, it's the underlying mindset that created the codex and that wasn't limited to just that codex but was instead a convenient shorthand for Jervis's design ideals. It's hard to let go of a design philosophy you disagree with if that philosophy is still in place and shapes how the games you'd like to enjoy play out.

I'll be interested to see how GW's games develop in the coming years without Jervis's (direct) input.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 10:30:38


Post by: MarkNorfolk


 Just Tony wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I get the feeling here that JJ could literally have created the finest fething wargame ever, made from a melding of him and Rick Priestly into a Super Sayan rules writer (powered by the spirit of HG Wells), and he would still have Dark Angels Codex written on his tomb stone..

Please.. for ... feths .. sake.. let... it.... go



Build a thousand bridges but feth one goat, see if ANYONE calls you a bridge builder.


Easy there. It's more a case of build a thousand bridges, then knock one down, and then being remembered as "that guy who knocks bridges" down. Depends if you really liked that particular bridge, I suppose....


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 10:41:09


Post by: Pacific


Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Not sure the whole “SST was 40K” thing holds water.

Any development Andy Chambers did whilst working for GW, would belong to GW and not him.

Then, I also understand you can’t actually copyright a rules system?


100% on the rules front. I worked in a GW a short while after this and heard it from a couple of people I trust, and they had no reason to BS.

As for the rules being copy-writable I'm not sure. Maybe he had been working on them on his own for a while and they hadn't been published in any official capacity yet? Remember also those years ago, how senior Andy was and the company was a lot smaller and wouldn't have had all of legal rules documents wedged up its behind in the same manner. I can't imagine anyone trying to stop he or Rick Priestly walking out of the building with their notebooks, although I absolutely don't think the same thing would happen these days.

There was also a quite nasty rumour going around of why he had actually left GW and it wasn't because of the 40k rules update, but it's of a personal nature and slanderous so I'll annoy everyone by not repeating it here..

Just Tony wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I get the feeling here that JJ could literally have created the finest fething wargame ever, made from a melding of him and Rick Priestly into a Super Sayan rules writer (powered by the spirit of HG Wells), and he would still have Dark Angels Codex written on his tomb stone..

Please.. for ... feths .. sake.. let... it.... go

Build a thousand bridges but feth one goat, see if ANYONE calls you a bridge builder.





Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/19 11:13:11


Post by: Pox Apostle


 kodos wrote:
if a game system with points, army roosters...



Well, that's a bit of a cock-up, isn't it?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/20 13:53:07


Post by: MongooseMatt


 Pacific wrote:

100% on the rules front. I worked in a GW a short while after this and heard it from a couple of people I trust, and they had no reason to BS.



Well, I was there for SST, so... Rumour Control...

The core of SST was built on the Gangs of Mega-City One game that came out a year(ish) earlier. You will see the foundations of the four-action system, reactions and so on in there.

Whether Andy brought anything with him from GW, I do not know, but he never mentioned it in any of the conversations we had over the game.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/20 14:38:48


Post by: Pacific


MongooseMatt wrote:
 Pacific wrote:

100% on the rules front. I worked in a GW a short while after this and heard it from a couple of people I trust, and they had no reason to BS.



Well, I was there for SST, so... Rumour Control...

The core of SST was built on the Gangs of Mega-City One game that came out a year(ish) earlier. You will see the foundations of the four-action system, reactions and so on in there.

Whether Andy brought anything with him from GW, I do not know, but he never mentioned it in any of the conversations we had over the game.


Well, first-hand evidence beats third-hand I think so fair play!

Now have to go and re-evaluate everything I knew about the development and history of wargaming

Apologies MDG - would have been prepared to stake my reputation on that! (and.. there we go, that says a lot I think! )


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/20 14:49:00


Post by: MongooseMatt


 Pacific wrote:


Well, first-hand evidence beats third-hand I think so fair play!

Now have to go and re-evaluate everything I knew about the development and history of wargaming


Heh

Incidentally, the legacy of Gangs of MC-1 and SST continues today - the latest iteration of that rules set forms the basis of Warlord Games' SPQR...


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/20 14:58:44


Post by: MarkNorfolk


MongooseMatt wrote:
 Pacific wrote:


Well, first-hand evidence beats third-hand I think so fair play!

Now have to go and re-evaluate everything I knew about the development and history of wargaming


Heh

Incidentally, the legacy of Gangs of MC-1 and SST continues today - the latest iteration of that rules set forms the basis of Warlord Games' SPQR...


Now I'm going to have to check that out!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/22 20:48:45


Post by: PaddyMick


I just read the last ever J-files. Made me cry a little bit (the theshold is quite low. I cried at the end of Bad Boys Forever). JJ you will be missed!


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/23 09:07:03


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, JJ can be a happy guy.
Not everybody is able to turn a hobby into profession and its a very nice hobby as we all know.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/23 13:48:29


Post by: MongooseMatt


 wuestenfux wrote:

Not everybody is able to turn a hobby into profession and its a very nice hobby as we all know.


In the industry, Jervis was known as 'the nicest man in gaming.'

We are going to have to find someone else for that now :(


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/23 13:49:26


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


MongooseMatt wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:

Not everybody is able to turn a hobby into profession and its a very nice hobby as we all know.


In the industry, Jervis was known as 'the nicest man in gaming.'

We are going to have to find someone else for that now :(


And the nominations are …?


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/23 15:16:26


Post by: weirdingway


Bob Lorgar wrote:
It would be hard for me to name a nicer, more generous person I have ever met.

Before there was the Dakka bulletin Board, or Warseer, or any of the others, there was the 40k Mailing List, run by Edwin Voskamp and Chris Bickford.


Thanks so much for sharing that Bob/Graham! I had a similar experience with Jervis.

When I was 15 and getting really into WH40k I found the 40k mailing list, and became a prolific poster and started writing up custom background, rules, and concepts.

Jervis Johnson and Andy Chambers were lurkers on the mailing list, and both sent me nice responses to my posts. Jervis was really encouraging, and suggested I submit some articles to White Dwarf and Citadel Journal. I *think* a tiny sidebar ended up in a WD, but the Journal did publish a couple of my articles.

I lived in Hawai`i, but my junior year in Highschool my family spent a semester in Leicester, England. Jervis invited me to visit the studio, and was so generous with his time. He picked me up from the train station, gave me a tour of the studio, introduced me to tons of people (including Paul Sawyer who was the editor of the Citadel Journal, and the best), got some of my models photographed in the pro studio, played a game of 40k with me, and turned me loose in the bins of freshly cast pewter models!

At that point in my life I was pretty sure I wanted to work for Games Workshop, and I was strongly considering skipping college and instead applying to work at the Studio. I talked to Jervis about it, and much to my parent’s eternal thanks, he suggested I give college a try, because I could always apply to the Workshop later, and it would be better to first have wider experience. That was 100% the right advice for me, and I ended up truly loving art school, and the career and life it made possible.

I set aside “the hobby” for almost two decades, and got back into it about 7 years ago. When I returned to Nottingham to play in Shibboleth’s amazing Lesotho game, I reached out to Jervis to let him know I was visiting. He was once again very kind and generous, and it was fun catching up with him and showing him the game we were playing.

Jervis has always shown a love for the games he works on and for the people who play them. He was clearly an incredibly important part of Games Workshop and I’m sure he will be missed. I hope he has a wonderful retirement.


Jervis Johnson is... retiring??? @ 2021/07/24 11:56:14


Post by: BaronIveagh


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Good bye and good riddance.


Can you show us on the doll where one of the architects of everything GW hurt you?


The man who mismanaged BFG so badly? You're joking, right?