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Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 15:39:29


Post by: Ghaz


Added 22 March 2022
Review by Goobertown Hobbies and eBay Miniature Rescues added to page 8.

Added 15 March 2022
BREAKING NEWS!!! We are pleased to announce that Asmodee North America has acquired exclusive North American (USA & Canada) distribution rights for our paint line!

https://www.asmodeena.com/en/news/2022/3/15/Two-Thin-Coats/

Asmodee is one of the biggest games and hobby distributors in the entire world, everything from Railroad Tycoon, Catan to Star Wars Legion and A Song of Ice & Fire among many, many more. We are looking forward to being partners with them and Trans Atlantis Games and are very excited to see what the future holds. But most importantly, we can't wait for you all to get your hands on the Two Thin Coats Paints line.

As for the Kickstarter pledges, Trans Atlantis Games is in the latter stages of casting, filling, and packing the pledges right now so keep an eye out for notifications.

Cheers
Dunc & Rog




Newest YouTube update:




A few tidbits from the new video's comments.

The Kickstarter should be live in a couple of weeks
Glazes will be a part of Phase 2
There will be a conversion chart on the website
They're already working on a tutorial using the new paints
Three new gold paints using 'new technology'

https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/Announcing-the-Launch-of-Trans-Atlantis-Games

Announcing the Launch of Trans Atlantis Games

Industry Veteran Bob Watts is looking to bring more awesome things to your tabletop. He's joined up with Steve Herbert and Peter Buxton to bring you Trans Atlantis Games. Expect new minis, terrain, and other such elements coming soon.

From the release:

Trans Atlantis Games is the latest enterprise from industry veteran Bob Watts, who brings nearly a half a century of experience and expertise in the Hobby Games industry to this new venture.

Trans Atlantis Games will be creating brand new and exciting product ranges. Trans Atlantis Games will also be forming strategic partnerships with other game & entertainment companies and creators, leaning towards the 3D element of the hobby, focusing on tabletop miniatures games & accessories, as well as RPG miniatures.

Joining Bob at Trans Atlantis Games will be his colleague Steve Herbert, who will be overseeing all production, warehousing and shipping in the Liverpool UK facility, and Peter Buxton, a longtime associate of Bob and Steve's, who will be managing the business in Europe.

Trans Atlantis Games' initial strategic partnership is with Duncan Rhodes and Roger Yates from the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy. Duncan and Roger have been collaborating for many years, instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos, which can be found on YouTube and www.duncanrhodes.com


Pre-launch Kickstarter page. The Kickstarter goes live next week according to the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy Facebook page.



Spoiler:















Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 15:44:22


Post by: NAVARRO


Do we need more paint lines?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 15:45:09


Post by: Grimskul


It should have been called the Two Thin Coats paint line.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 15:48:17


Post by: Ghaz


Could be more than just paint, as the https://transatlantisgames.com/ link mentioned at the end of the article is just a sign up for a newsletter and mentions they are 'Coming Soon'.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 15:48:41


Post by: chaos0xomega


Oh, he's still alive?

Seriously, seems like he fell off the face of the planet since leaving GW - I know hes trying to do his own thing independently, but I can't imagine thats really working out all that well for him, his visibility in the industry seems to have declined dramatically and he seems to be a bit of a "has been" these days.

Theres so many paint lines out there already he's really going to have to offer something impressive to make any impact.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 15:50:15


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Interesting. I've really enjoyed Duncan's painting videos since he branched off so I'm curious to see what's next.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 16:21:44


Post by: Theophony


Reaper rebrands their lines for just about anything (Star Wars Legions, Zombicide, etc.), This could just be the same for another manufacturer and he gets a split of the $$$ to shill his name. kind of looks like the War Colors bottles to me, but not certain.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 16:35:10


Post by: Ghaz


 Theophony wrote:
Reaper rebrands their lines for just about anything (Star Wars Legions, Zombicide, etc.), This could just be the same for another manufacturer and he gets a split of the $$$ to shill his name. kind of looks like the War Colors bottles to me, but not certain.

The Colours of War paints sold by Battlefront for Flames of War is made by The Army Painter, while the older Flames of War labelled paints were from the Vallejo Model Color line.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 16:36:56


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 Ghaz wrote:
Could be more than just paint, as the https://transatlantisgames.com/ link mentioned at the end of the article is just a sign up for a newsletter and mentions they are 'Coming Soon'.


I'm much more interested in what come out of this than any potential paint lines, though i wish Duncan the best what ever he chooses to do.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 16:46:21


Post by: Monkeysloth


chaos0xomega wrote:
Oh, he's still alive?


Yes, though I cannot say how big he still is but several of the mini's lines I follow he paints and shows up in the Facebook groups to chat (like Elderscrolls). He just seam's to have pulled an Angel Giraldez and (mostly) left the line that make him popular. He does a lot of non-GW stuff now and gets paid to do paint tutorials by said companies (much like Angel). Unlike Mr. Giraldez he has a subscription/patron style site for a lot of content while Angel's stuff is all covered my advertisers and the companies he's painting.

 Theophony wrote:
Reaper rebrands their lines for just about anything (Star Wars Legions, Zombicide, etc.), This could just be the same for another manufacturer and he gets a split of the $$$ to shill his name. kind of looks like the War Colors bottles to me, but not certain.


You're thinking of Army Painter. The only company that Reaper makes paint for, that I know of, is Secret Weapon Miniatures.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 16:58:10


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Theophony wrote:
Reaper rebrands their lines for just about anything (Star Wars Legions, Zombicide, etc.), This could just be the same for another manufacturer and he gets a split of the $$$ to shill his name. kind of looks like the War Colors bottles to me, but not certain.


Arent those all Army Painter?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 17:01:26


Post by: Arbitrator


chaos0xomega wrote:
Oh, he's still alive?

Seriously, seems like he fell off the face of the planet since leaving GW - I know hes trying to do his own thing independently, but I can't imagine thats really working out all that well for him, his visibility in the industry seems to have declined dramatically and he seems to be a bit of a "has been" these days.

Theres so many paint lines out there already he's really going to have to offer something impressive to make any impact.

Most of his videos on Youtube end up around 50-75,000 views for non-Warhammer stuff and 100,000+ for 40k. I don't know if I'd call him a 'has been' considering he nets more than the vast majority of Youtube painters despite only putting a video on there a couple of times a month and that view count's more than a lot of his Warhammer TV videos that've been up for years. That's not accounting for his website, which must be raking in a healthy amount of cash considering he's getting into things like this.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Oh, he's still alive?


Yes, though I cannot say how big he still is but several of the mini's lines I follow he paints and shows up in the Facebook groups to chat (like Elderscrolls). He just seam's to have pulled an Angel Giraldez and (mostly) left the line that make him popular. He does a lot of non-GW stuff now and gets paid to do paint tutorials by said companies (much like Angel). Unlike Mr. Giraldez he has a subscription/patron style site for a lot of content while Angel's stuff is all covered my advertisers and the companies he's painting.

Most of the stuff on his website is still 40k/AoS. If a big centrepiece model comes out you can be sure he'll paint it up. His actual Youtube channel seems to be more diverse than the website though, which is ironic, considering his 40k videos end up with double/triple the views. More diversity is always good though.

I admit when I saw them I did wonder if they're just going to be rebranded Army Painter pots considering he seems very fond of them in his videos.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 17:04:38


Post by: Ghaz


Speaking of The Army Painter it does seem that any paints and brushes Duncan uses in his videos that are not from Games Workshop are from The Army Painter instead, so maybe he does have some sort of deal with them...


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 17:18:14


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Arbitrator wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Oh, he's still alive?

Seriously, seems like he fell off the face of the planet since leaving GW - I know hes trying to do his own thing independently, but I can't imagine thats really working out all that well for him, his visibility in the industry seems to have declined dramatically and he seems to be a bit of a "has been" these days.

Theres so many paint lines out there already he's really going to have to offer something impressive to make any impact.

Most of his videos on Youtube end up around 50-75,000 views for non-Warhammer stuff and 100,000+ for 40k. I don't know if I'd call him a 'has been' considering he nets more than the vast majority of Youtube painters despite only putting a video on there a couple of times a month and that view count's more than a lot of his Warhammer TV videos that've been up for years. That's not accounting for his website, which must be raking in a healthy amount of cash considering he's getting into things like this.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Oh, he's still alive?


Yes, though I cannot say how big he still is but several of the mini's lines I follow he paints and shows up in the Facebook groups to chat (like Elderscrolls). He just seam's to have pulled an Angel Giraldez and (mostly) left the line that make him popular. He does a lot of non-GW stuff now and gets paid to do paint tutorials by said companies (much like Angel). Unlike Mr. Giraldez he has a subscription/patron style site for a lot of content while Angel's stuff is all covered my advertisers and the companies he's painting.

Most of the stuff on his website is still 40k/AoS. If a big centrepiece model comes out you can be sure he'll paint it up. His actual Youtube channel seems to be more diverse than the website though, which is ironic, considering his 40k videos end up with double/triple the views. More diversity is always good though.

I admit when I saw them I did wonder if they're just going to be rebranded Army Painter pots considering he seems very fond of them in his videos.


Thats actually pretty great, hats off to him. I have to say I'm surprised though - when he was with GW he was omnipresent, two thin coat memes were everywhere, people were constantly posting links and referring newbies to his painting tutorials, etc. At this point, prior to coming along this thread I can't remember the last time I saw or heard his name and I've been seeing other painters crossing my feed a lot more often


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 17:24:24


Post by: BrianDavion


 Ghaz wrote:
Speaking of The Army Painter it does seem that any paints and brushes Duncan uses in his videos that are not from Games Workshop are from The Army Painter instead, so maybe he does have some sort of deal with them...


it's not just brushes eaither, he uses GW and AP paints so I assumed he's got sponsership deals with both companies


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 17:24:28


Post by: Arbitrator


chaos0xomega wrote:

Thats actually pretty great, hats off to him. I have to say I'm surprised though - when he was with GW he was omnipresent, two thin coat memes were everywhere, people were constantly posting links and referring newbies to his painting tutorials, etc. At this point, prior to coming along this thread I can't remember the last time I saw or heard his name and I've been seeing other painters crossing my feed a lot more often

I imagine a lot of it was because GW was actively pushing it and utilising his meme status in things like their 'quirky' videos. A lot of the larger community on places like /r/warhammer are very much self-contained to the official Games Workshop(tm) bubble and if Duncan is more associated generally with the hobby than specifically GW/Warhammer they're a lot less likely to think, see and therefore spread his name as it were.

Plus judging by his Twitter he doesn't play much GW stuff anymore. If he was showing up at 40k events instead of ASOIAF stuff (which seems to be his main game now) you'd probably see far more "I JUST MET MISTER TWO THIN COATS!!!" posts making it to the Reddit front page.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 17:34:55


Post by: Gallahad


The GW fan base is very bubble locked. I see his name and painting show up often in the broader wonderful world of miniature gaming.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 18:04:14


Post by: Cronch


chaos0xomega wrote:
Oh, he's still alive?

Seriously, seems like he fell off the face of the planet since leaving GW - I know hes trying to do his own thing independently, but I can't imagine thats really working out all that well for him, his visibility in the industry seems to have declined dramatically and he seems to be a bit of a "has been" these days.

Theres so many paint lines out there already he's really going to have to offer something impressive to make any impact.

He's got 113k followers on insta and most of his posts drop around 5-6k likes. For comparison, Giraldez got about 85k followers and most posts got ~2,5k likes with a handful going to 30k. So I'd say he's not doing bad, certainly if even some of those followers translate into subs to his painting site.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 18:05:31


Post by: Polonius


 Monkeysloth wrote:
You're thinking of Army Painter. The only company that Reaper makes paint for, that I know of, is Secret Weapon Miniatures.


I didn't know that. I guess it makes sense, given their frequent collaborations, but I had never heard that.

I'm a bit curious if we really need another paint range. We have three ranges with massive breadth and depth (GW, Vallejo, Reaper), and what, a half dozen more full ranges available for specialists? Pro Acryl, Scale 75, P3, Warcolours, Army Painter, and Secret weapon. Not sure what the niche is. If they're sourced, that's just a question of color selection.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 18:10:35


Post by: Aenar


Best of luck to him.
A new paint line is always welcome, more choice for us painters is a good thing.
Hopefully there will be some gems in this paint line, as it usually happens in (almost) every one of them.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 18:49:05


Post by: Theophony


Yep, sorry everyone, I meant Army Painter

The reason I could see him linking his name to another paint line is for a game such as Conquest where he has done at least a video painting up a model on there. Conquest has linked themselves with War Colors paints in their box sets, so if they bring in Duncan as a Painting Guru and that line of paints it could be a great way to get people interested in the game. Of course it could be any other line, that's just one that comes to mind.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 19:05:54


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Polonius wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
You're thinking of Army Painter. The only company that Reaper makes paint for, that I know of, is Secret Weapon Miniatures.


I didn't know that. I guess it makes sense, given their frequent collaborations, but I had never heard that.


Straight from Justin's mouth is where I heard it. Reaper doesn't make weathering paints for their own line so they're not competing with themselves.

 Theophony wrote:
Yep, sorry everyone, I meant Army Painter

The reason I could see him linking his name to another paint line is for a game such as Conquest where he has done at least a video painting up a model on there. Conquest has linked themselves with War Colors paints in their box sets, so if they bring in Duncan as a Painting Guru and that line of paints it could be a great way to get people interested in the game. Of course it could be any other line, that's just one that comes to mind.


The dropper bottles he teased didn't look like any line I'm aware of so who knows (the cone lids). I don't think he wants to attach himself to only one company again so while the Conquest people might be paying him to do tutorials I don't think he'll exclusively be with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arbitrator wrote:

Most of the stuff on his website is still 40k/AoS. If a big centrepiece model comes out you can be sure he'll paint it up. His actual Youtube channel seems to be more diverse than the website though, which is ironic, considering his 40k videos end up with double/triple the views. More diversity is always good though.


Makes since as that's going to bring him the most subscribers. I just know what he's posted behind a paywall for other games, as I don't follow much of anything GW related, and he seams pretty active with some lines as people have brought up here.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 19:38:22


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Arbitrator wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:

Thats actually pretty great, hats off to him. I have to say I'm surprised though - when he was with GW he was omnipresent, two thin coat memes were everywhere, people were constantly posting links and referring newbies to his painting tutorials, etc. At this point, prior to coming along this thread I can't remember the last time I saw or heard his name and I've been seeing other painters crossing my feed a lot more often

I imagine a lot of it was because GW was actively pushing it and utilising his meme status in things like their 'quirky' videos. A lot of the larger community on places like /r/warhammer are very much self-contained to the official Games Workshop(tm) bubble and if Duncan is more associated generally with the hobby than specifically GW/Warhammer they're a lot less likely to think, see and therefore spread his name as it were.

Plus judging by his Twitter he doesn't play much GW stuff anymore. If he was showing up at 40k events instead of ASOIAF stuff (which seems to be his main game now) you'd probably see far more "I JUST MET MISTER TWO THIN COATS!!!" posts making it to the Reddit front page.


Thats the thing though, I mostly play and participate in non-GW communities, I don't see Duncan really popping up in any of them (including ASOIAF - but then again I made a conscious decision not to paint those minis, precolored plastics are good enough lol).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 19:50:31


Post by: Ghaz


Been looking at some of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video. This is one I'm not too keen on...

Lord Dyson wrote:They look awesome but will you be using these exclusively from now on? I practically have the whole citadel range

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We will gradually be phasing over but we will be letting people know the equivalent to make it easier


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 20:02:03


Post by: Mr. Grey


 Ghaz wrote:
Been looking at some of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video. This is one I'm not too keen on...

Lord Dyson wrote:They look awesome but will you be using these exclusively from now on? I practically have the whole citadel range

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We will gradually be phasing over but we will be letting people know the equivalent to make it easier






You're going to run into this issue with most painting channels, though. While Duncan seems to do a fairly good job showing technique and teaching, I don't have even a third of the Citadel paints he uses in his videos. Cult of Paint relies on a lot of Tamiya paints and Abteilung oils in their videos, and again that's not something I've invested in.

I'm not surprised that if he's putting out his own paint line, that those are going to be heavily featured in his videos.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 20:09:41


Post by: hotsauceman1


Duncan to me never seemed to really be that interesting. I tried watching his stuf and its kinda just mediocre.
He is middle of the road as what he is showing and doesnt try to teach anything beyond the model. No techniques or anything.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 20:24:10


Post by: Theophony


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Duncan to me never seemed to really be that interesting. I tried watching his stuf and its kinda just mediocre.
He is middle of the road as what he is showing and doesnt try to teach anything beyond the model. No techniques or anything.


Probably why I like him so much. I don't have the brush control or desire to learn wet blending or OSL, but he is pleasant to listen to in my opinion, so I like his videos much more than people like Miniac who drive me nuts. If it has a good consistency and I can get it cheaper than GW here in the states, then I am all for it.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 20:34:49


Post by: Ghaz


Duncan teaches new and casual painters the basic and intermediate techniques of how to paint and leaves the advanced techniques to others.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 20:35:53


Post by: Nazrak


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Duncan to me never seemed to really be that interesting. I tried watching his stuf and its kinda just mediocre.
He is middle of the road as what he is showing and doesnt try to teach anything beyond the model. No techniques or anything.

I think it just kinda depends what you're after. Some people want techniques, theory, and other stuff they can go away and apply to whatever they want. Other people just want "here's a step-by-step of how to paint an Ork (or whatever) and make it look cool." Not everything's going to (and nor should it) appeal to everyone.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 21:25:44


Post by: Gallahad


 Mr. Grey wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Been looking at some of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video. This is one I'm not too keen on...

Lord Dyson wrote:They look awesome but will you be using these exclusively from now on? I practically have the whole citadel range

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We will gradually be phasing over but we will be letting people know the equivalent to make it easier






You're going to run into this issue with most painting channels, though. While Duncan seems to do a fairly good job showing technique and teaching, I don't have even a third of the Citadel paints he uses in his videos. Cult of Paint relies on a lot of Tamiya paints and Abteilung oils in their videos, and again that's not something I've invested in.

I'm not surprised that if he's putting out his own paint line, that those are going to be heavily featured in his videos.


I paid $5 usd for an app that matches paint colors across all sorts of manufactures. It has been a great tool.

Starter paints are just what people starting out need. GW charge too much for everything outside of the contrast line.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 21:26:20


Post by: Irbis


chaos0xomega wrote:
Thats actually pretty great, hats off to him. I have to say I'm surprised though - when he was with GW he was omnipresent, two thin coat memes were everywhere, people were constantly posting links and referring newbies to his painting tutorials, etc. At this point, prior to coming along this thread I can't remember the last time I saw or heard his name and I've been seeing other painters crossing my feed a lot more often

When was last time you heard any other GW painter name besides him?

 Arbitrator wrote:
Plus judging by his Twitter he doesn't play much GW stuff anymore. If he was showing up at 40k events instead of ASOIAF stuff (which seems to be his main game now) you'd probably see far more "I JUST MET MISTER TWO THIN COATS!!!" posts making it to the Reddit front page.

Seeing he seems to love Deathwatch (he posted full, converted DW army years before GW released 7th edition codex) I wouldn't be playing anymore either if I had to touch that pile of steaming gak. I haven't bought or paint a single DW model in 9th edition since "supplement"


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/16 21:38:20


Post by: Arbitrator


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Duncan to me never seemed to really be that interesting. I tried watching his stuf and its kinda just mediocre.
He is middle of the road as what he is showing and doesnt try to teach anything beyond the model. No techniques or anything.

He's predominently for beginners who want to achieve a solid tabletop standard. He's not for winning competitions, but for newcomers or just people with little/no confidence in painting to look at him achieve a good looking, tabletop standard without any overly complicated techniques or materials and think "that doesn't look tricky at all, maybe even I could do it!"

And to be fair, he does have technique videos on his website and some on the Youtube channel too I believe.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 00:48:01


Post by: BrianDavion


I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 00:59:33


Post by: Ghaz


From one of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video.

Loz_Ozo wrote:is this a UK only thing or will i be able to buy this internationally ?

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We are working with Transatlantis Games you (sic) are based in both Europe and the US so we are trying to get it distributed as far and wide as we possibly can

EDIT: Speaking of Trans Atlantis Games...

Bob Watts - CEO: CEO of Trans Atlantis Games LLC from October 2020 to present, President of Cerberus Entertainment from 2006 to present, CEO of Sabertooth Games from 2003 to 2005, VP of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro from 1999 to 2001 and President of Games Workshop NA from 1990 to 1991.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 03:29:54


Post by: GoldenHorde


 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 08:04:22


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Ghaz wrote:
From one of the replies Duncan commented on for the YouTube video.

Loz_Ozo wrote:is this a UK only thing or will i be able to buy this internationally ?

Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy wrote:We are working with Transatlantis Games you (sic) are based in both Europe and the US so we are trying to get it distributed as far and wide as we possibly can

EDIT: Speaking of Trans Atlantis Games...

Bob Watts - CEO: CEO of Trans Atlantis Games LLC from October 2020 to present, President of Cerberus Entertainment from 2006 to present, CEO of Sabertooth Games from 2003 to 2005, VP of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro from 1999 to 2001 and President of Games Workshop NA from 1990 to 1991.


So this is what's Bob's doing after leaving Privateer, where it didn't really seam like he did anything.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 08:18:36


Post by: CorwinB


BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting


Yeah, I'm a bit of the same mind, while I still wish him the best for his painting line. I know that even with a paint conversion chart handy, I'm very reluctant to switch from the recommended colors when I'm following a tutorial. And I don't think I'll be investing in the "Two Thin Coats" paints because I've way too many paints already.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 08:55:59


Post by: NAVARRO


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community



Speak for yourself.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 11:14:09


Post by: Gimgamgoo


I say good luck to him. Especially if he genuinely uses his own paints in his paint tutorials.
I just pray he doesn't give them ridiculous GW style paint names.

I do find it heartening that the biggest name in GW's employed painting history, would rather use dripper bottles. Says a lot.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 11:18:50


Post by: Arbitrator


BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting

In his videos he usually states the Citadel alternative if he's using an AP paint or brush. He's probably well aware that a lot of people will only ever use Citadel paints/tools/brushes - if he doesn't keep up that practise I'd be surprised, at least on his Warhammer videos.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 14:03:17


Post by: GoldenHorde


 NAVARRO wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community



Speak for yourself.


Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 14:08:15


Post by: NAVARRO


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community



Speak for yourself.


Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?


You may not. You have 9 posts on this forum and 2 of them are toxic... you know the thing you seem to live by.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 14:15:28


Post by: GoldenHorde


 NAVARRO wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community



Speak for yourself.


Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?


You may not. You have 9 posts on this forum and 2 of them are toxic... you know the thing you seem to live by.


Ad hominems against me don't really answer why you're dumping on duncan. I guess there's a leap of courage you're yet to take.

Someone here called him a 'has been'....for what reason? Better a has-been than a never-was.

When there's nothing ventured there's nothing gained.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 14:32:34


Post by: NAVARRO


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes, and lot less salt from a vocal, but very small toxic proportion of our community



Speak for yourself.


Well my hobby is wargaming, and no part of my hobby involves dumping constantly on the efforts and endeavours of others who are attempting to create value.

Can I ask what products you've brought onto the market by any chance?


You may not. You have 9 posts on this forum and 2 of them are toxic... you know the thing you seem to live by.




Ad hominems against me don't really answer why you're dumping on duncan. I guess there's a leap of courage you're yet to take.

Someone here called him a 'has been'....for what reason? Better a has-been than a never-was.

When there's nothing ventured there's nothing gained.


f you take a question if a new line of paints is needed on the market as toxic or dumping whatever...then you have reading issues.
Not going to answer you more so dont bother. Drop the trolling.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 15:33:54


Post by: techsoldaten


 NAVARRO wrote:
f you take a question if a new line of paints is needed on the market as toxic or dumping whatever...then you have reading issues.
Not going to answer you more so dont bother. Drop the trolling.


Eh, I agree. Undermining a product with negative feedback before it's been released is toxic.

I want to know who the manufacturer is. Doubt Duncan is putting this together in his basement.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 15:37:31


Post by: JohnnyHell


 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Not at all, really.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 16:08:40


Post by: Theophony


 techsoldaten wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
f you take a question if a new line of paints is needed on the market as toxic or dumping whatever...then you have reading issues.
Not going to answer you more so dont bother. Drop the trolling.


Eh, I agree. Undermining a product with negative feedback before it's been released is toxic.

I want to know who the manufacturer is. Doubt Duncan is putting this together in his basement.

I’m so glad there are people here who decide what is toxic or not for me .

Seriously he asked if there a need for another paint line. If you’d bother to know who he is or look at his painting skills (way better than mine), then maybe he is trying to open a discourse about the subject. Nowhere did he say that we don’t need another paint range or that this is stupid. He left it open ended for people to discuss what is still needed in the paint market, maybe there is a hole that he doesn’t see. You could counter with “I can’t find a range that is opaque enough, or translucent enough, or doesn’t have good mixing qualities, or that is in my price range”, plenty of options. If you want to have a debate and be productive on a discussion forum, why don’t you discuss the topic instead of immediately thinking the writer is “Toxic” or negative.

If you can’t post something without limiting or attacking someone else, take a break, remember rule #1 “Be Polite”.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 17:47:47


Post by: Cronch


When we get to it, are miniature paints needed at all? Do we need Vallejo, GW, P3 etc when we could just use Apple Barrel or some other artists' acrylics?
Or even games? Who really needs Kill Team, what vital function does another skirmish game fulfill in society?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 17:49:59


Post by: chaos0xomega


 GoldenHorde wrote:


Someone here called him a 'has been'....for what reason? Better a has-been than a never-was.



That was me, except I said he "he seems to be a bit of a "has been" these days", which is different from actually calling him a has been. What I said is a statement of perspective, whereas saying "He is a has been" is a statement of fact. The reason is because he has, from my perspective, fallen off the map (as I said in the post in question) and went from being a basically omnipresent daily part of my interaction with the hobby and the community to someone whos name I haven't even heard mentioned in at least a year, possibly longer.

And for the record - I have brought products to market in this hobby/industry. I will also be the first to tell you that I am a small, insignificant, and largely irrelevant part of the hobby landscape and am fine being referred to as a never was.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 18:54:53


Post by: NAVARRO


Thanks @Theophony.

Yes, I was trying to open the debate to people thoughts regarding how the Miniatures paints industry is now and what "we need" or if there is a saturation of lines etc.
I guess some people just want to talk what they like most.

How many strong lines do we have now? 4 or 5? What are the main features that separate them? and what feature is NOT covered by others extensively that would make a new line more tempting?

Personally I have loads of paints from several lines and would like to get more from Scale 75 which I have not tried yet and some technical oddities from greenstuff world... but I have to confess that from a regional point of view today UK is well covered by options ( it may be different in other parts of the world).

I do think theres a huge hole in the miniatures painting industry and that is Oil painting. That, for sure, would get me spending a lot of money.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 19:13:02


Post by: Cronch


I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 19:15:47


Post by: Jammer87


Cronch wrote:
I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


After watching hours of MarcoFrisoniNJM I would buy miniature oil paints.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 19:18:05


Post by: MaxT


Best of luck to him. Personal opinion is he’ll struggle to make an impact with a product in an area that is already very well served by both big and small players, but what the hell do I know.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 19:32:31


Post by: NAVARRO


Cronch wrote:I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


No idea. But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market. While a new acrylic line will just be another acrylic line so will predate on the same water of bigger fishes.

Jammer87 wrote:
Cronch wrote:
I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


After watching hours of MarcoFrisoniNJM I would buy miniature oil paints.


There was a great Dakka member that started his adventures on Oil painting and now streams on Twitch, has a blog and not sure if he uses you tube... but search for Wappelius. The great master of painting oil on miniatures.

This precedes Marcos adventures IIRC and takes you into a new way of painting miniatures. Its quite inspiring really.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 19:42:11


Post by: Cronch


But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market

Why? Genuinely, as far as I can see it's main downside is you need an actual thinner instead of just water for acrylics, so the convenience factor is right out, and oils are more expensive per container?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 19:58:00


Post by: NAVARRO


Cronch wrote:
But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market

Why? Genuinely, as far as I can see it's main downside is you need an actual thinner instead of just water for acrylics, so the convenience factor is right out, and oils are more expensive per container?


Everything has pros and cons. I can elaborate more on those but I do suggest you to have a look and some of James Wappel tutorials and be careful because it will break all your acrylic tabus out of the water ( cheesy pun intended).
Main pro I would say you can blend and paint at high standard with less effort ( you know dry brush? then you are pro at blending with oils.) and most importantly at a fraction of the time. If someone told you that you could paint to better results, 4 or 5 times faster would you not be at least curious?
Main Con ( get the consistency wrong and you are looking at ridiculous drying times) painting by numbers is not applicable you need to mix colours etc.

I have watched plenty of these tuts but I confess that I have not took the leap yet, you see sculpting takes precedent over painting so time is really short to "start over".

A new line of miniature painting oils in smaller tubes, backed with some patreon tutorials and Duncan would have my attention


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 20:00:36


Post by: Cronch


Without turning this into "oils the thread", I've given a quick skim of the vids, and I do not see the appeal at all.

That being said, the question of "is another paint line needed" will be decided by the customers, so we'll see in a year or two.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 20:26:55


Post by: catbarf


Cronch wrote:
When we get to it, are miniature paints needed at all? Do we need Vallejo, GW, P3 etc when we could just use Apple Barrel or some other artists' acrylics?


Strictly speaking, no, but those lines offer certain advantages over artists' acrylics. If you were accustomed to using cheap craft story acrylics I could think of a few reasons you might switch to Vallejo/GW/whomever.

If another paint range comes out and it offers nothing over what I already use, then I have no reason to switch. I would hope there'd be something unique about a new paint range, otherwise why buy in?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 20:56:22


Post by: Mario


NAVARRO wrote:
Cronch wrote:I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


No idea. But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market. While a new acrylic line will just be another acrylic line so will predate on the same water of bigger fishes.
Oil paints probably have the issue that they are a bit more difficult to handle, and there might be some safety issues around them for young kids. That's just much easier to deal with acrylic paints that only need water. The benefits of oil painting also don't seems to fit the idea of painting something quickly to have it battle ready due to longer drying times. I see the possible audience for oil paints similar to airbrush usage, but maybe even smaller. With an airbrush you can buy some airbrush thinner and use quite a lot of your exiting miniature acrylics (besides some extra clumpy ones or dried up ones). But if you want to start with oils you need the paints plus a new set of brushes as well as learning new processes.

I don't see oils ever taking a big chunk the mainstream (GW-ish) miniature painting market. And those who are willing to put in the work seem to use existing oil paints. From that perspective a new acrylic line seems the better bet. But I also don't see the need for even more acrylic paint lines. Two or three lines—that are targeted at that GW-ish market without being "company owned"—are already more than enough (for me, even so I wouldn't buy them all) and after that you end up with diminishing returns and I wonder how many people can buy into another whole new set of paints. I know that technically more options are always good but at some point the market can also be oversaturated with two smaller lines maybe cannibalising each other and both of them suffering from it.

I remember when Rackham released their own line and its big features seemed to be their slightly different consistency and how they handle, not that the range was super exciting with new hues of all types or specialty paints. Sure it's nice for a company if it can hook people on their paints (nice margins, a bit comparable to soft drinks at McDonalds) but as an end user another new line of paints just makes me sigh.

I wish him luck with that new line of paints and it probably depends on how it all works. If it's an already existing line that just gets his branding and he gets a cut then there's probably little risk for him. It could make it easier for people (who are new-ish to painting or who want a stricter step by step process) to follow his tutorials if they buy his line. More power to them (him and his audience) and I hope it works out for them, even if it's 100% not for me. Then there are some people like to collect whole paint lines for the convenience of having every imaginable colour without needing to mix anything. They would probably also be willing to buy into a whole new line

Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

Staying within one line of paint feels like a necessity to not buy superfluous paints on impulse.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 21:03:58


Post by: Ghaz


Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 21:16:13


Post by: chaos0xomega


I could be wrong, but I recall hearing something to the effect of "oil paints never fully dry"? Isn't that something you would want to avoid in a miniature you're going to be handling while playing with?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 21:37:18


Post by: streetsamurai


Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy). Might lose a good portion of his viewership


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting


Well, that's pretty much what i meant, only it's more detailled and better written


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 21:41:25


Post by: NAVARRO


@Mario Very good points, I haven't considered the inconvenience of oils regarding younger audiences. And yes I think if you decide to go for oils its a full painting reset, new brushes, paints and the fun part new techniques.

I never got to try the Rachham lines, at the time I lived in another country and it was not easy to get hold of them. Did you like them?

Vallejos lines are big for sure, game colour and model colour and seems like they have expanded on to other ranges too.
I would be curious to see how many unique paint pots exist in total in the top 5 ranges, its probably something really scary.
So yes with hundreds of unique colours paint pots already widely available everywhere, yet to be tried or checked, Im not convinced I need more

I like to have several ranges, I think they complement each other like some yellows are great on X range but not so good on y range, metallics the same etc. But I also mix paints so its not that bad ( a reason I find scale 75 a bit strange was the same tone with different strengths ).

@Mario and chaos0xomega I agree the Drying times are something that really bothers me too with oil paintings. While talking live to Wappelius and others they say if you do it right it will dry in one day or so... what Im worried about is me not doing it right

I think its worth a go personally and just need to get my timings right to get a couple tubes and mess it up. Theres nothing better than to try it out by yourself before committing to a sizeable investment in time and money.

Duncan lines seems to be 10 pots on the picture so not that many for maybe a starter set. I just hope they bring something to the crowded pound.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 21:45:30


Post by: streetsamurai


I bought some of the rackham paints and tought they were very very bad. Which was weird since most Rackham products were high end quality


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 21:48:03


Post by: Cronch


the fun part new techniques

I think you might be overestimating how much most people in the wargaming hobby enjoy painting, or to the extent of having to start from 0 again.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 22:09:17


Post by: Ghaz


 streetsamurai wrote:
Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy).

He has already confirmed that he will be transitioning to his own paint line for tutorials.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/17 22:22:49


Post by: GoldenHorde


 NAVARRO wrote:
Thanks @Theophony.

Yes, I was trying to open the debate to people thoughts regarding how the Miniatures paints industry is now and what "we need" or if there is a saturation of lines etc.
I guess some people just want to talk what they like most.

How many strong lines do we have now? 4 or 5? What are the main features that separate them? and what feature is NOT covered by others extensively that would make a new line more tempting?

Personally I have loads of paints from several lines and would like to get more from Scale 75 which I have not tried yet and some technical oddities from greenstuff world... but I have to confess that from a regional point of view today UK is well covered by options ( it may be different in other parts of the world).

I do think theres a huge hole in the miniatures painting industry and that is Oil painting. That, for sure, would get me spending a lot of money.



The market will decide if we need it or not, not you
Competition and choice is a sign of a healthy market.

The quality of acrylic hobby paints still leaves a lot to be desired. Separation, colour shift, coverage, the metallics are still inferior, the paints tend to lift easier when using masking tape etc so on and so forth


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 01:56:48


Post by: Azazelx


 Ghaz wrote:
Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


At this point in time I use more Model Colour than Game Colour or Citadel - and most of my stuff is still sci-fi/fantasy with a good chunk of that being Warhammers. It's nice to have the choice to use more nuance than just having the bright, saturated colours on the GW line. (though I like and use those too).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:

The market will decide if we need it or not, not you
Competition and choice is a sign of a healthy market.


Mate, YOU need to calm down a tad.

Your posting is unnecessarily aggressive - and I get it - you're probably locked down and stressed right now and watching it all re-unfold and likely haven't had a chance for any kind of shot. But yeah, calm down on the aggro.

Dakka isn't the abusive gakhole of twitter, but we do have healthy discussion back and forth, and people are certainly able to express their opinions, doubts, dislikes and reservations on any topic that comes up - there's no mandate for everything being sunshine and rainbows. There's also a couple of other people that have been pretty quick to throw out the old "toxic" who also need to calm the feth down with that sort of thing. Just because a person says something that another disagrees with, doesn't mean it's "toxic". That word is way too fething overused.

As for Duncan's upcoming paint - I certainly don't need it. I have tons of paints from many other lines - but as with anything hobby-related, I'm always open to more unnecessary purchases , so I look forward with a degree of interest to see what his USP is. I think supply will be the biggest issue here, since Australia is often last priority or not at all a priority with supply of these things. We'll see if perhaps they can get into Amazon's supply chain.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 04:23:27


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


All the best to Duncan, but my first thought was "what does thing bring to the table?"

If it brings something new, that's awesome, I'd love to try them, if all it is is yet another range of hobby acrylics, I'm a bit "meh".

An LGS not far from me has done a great job making paints different paint ranges available. They have a rack and a half of GW paint, I think 3 full racks of Vallejo, I think 2 racks of Scale75 in dropper bottles, plus a rack of Scale75 heavy body acrylics, a rack of P3, a bunch of loose Reaper paints, a rack of Army painter, a rack of Tamiya paints, there's at least 2 other ones I can't remember, maybe AK interactive. Then they also have multiple racks of rattle cans, a bunch of weathering stuff (powders, oils thinners) and so on. Basically their paint area is bigger than some storefronts

Point being, it's a very crowded market place for what is only hobby acrylics for toy soldiers, so I'm struggling to get excited unless they're bringing something new which advances how I approach painting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Azazelx wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


At this point in time I use more Model Colour than Game Colour or Citadel - and most of my stuff is still sci-fi/fantasy with a good chunk of that being Warhammers. It's nice to have the choice to use more nuance than just having the bright, saturated colours on the GW line. (though I like and use those too).


Funnily enough VMC are designed to mimic historical colours for enthusiasts, but they're often the worst match for historic colours when compared to other companies with the same focus (Humbrol, Testors, Tamiya, Gunze).

But they are nice paint, I agree that it's nice to have some colours that are desaturated out of the bottle. In general they have really good coverage (probably helped by being more desaturated, they're not having to compromise opacity for vibrancy).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Cronch wrote:
But thinking about it Oil painting has the potential of taking over a big chunk of the acrylic market

Why? Genuinely, as far as I can see it's main downside is you need an actual thinner instead of just water for acrylics, so the convenience factor is right out, and oils are more expensive per container?


Everything has pros and cons. I can elaborate more on those but I do suggest you to have a look and some of James Wappel tutorials and be careful because it will break all your acrylic tabus out of the water ( cheesy pun intended).
Main pro I would say you can blend and paint at high standard with less effort ( you know dry brush? then you are pro at blending with oils.) and most importantly at a fraction of the time. If someone told you that you could paint to better results, 4 or 5 times faster would you not be at least curious?
Main Con ( get the consistency wrong and you are looking at ridiculous drying times) painting by numbers is not applicable you need to mix colours etc.

I have watched plenty of these tuts but I confess that I have not took the leap yet, you see sculpting takes precedent over painting so time is really short to "start over".

A new line of miniature painting oils in smaller tubes, backed with some patreon tutorials and Duncan would have my attention


I bought myself a set of Winsor and Newton's Winton oil colours, if you want to try out oils they're a great spot to start because some of the cheaper oils are much harder to work with, the Winton is a step up but you can get the starter set reasonably cheap (art stores often put them up on discount).

I really love working with oils, blending is so stupid easy. I'm not a good painter by any means, but I painted a cape with really creamy nice blends in the space of about 10 minutes by laying down 3 different brightnesses and just mixing the paint on the model to create nice blends. Another model I felt was looking a bit too clean for a soldier in the field, so I got some burnt umber and just put a couple of really tiny spots on him which I was able to blend in seamlessly in a few seconds and doesn't look like an afterthought even though it was. You can also create a bit of texture if you want, with things like leather you can intentionally under-blend it to create a rough slightly streaky appearance without looking messy.

Where oils could be awesome for miniature painting is for people who spend a bit of time on their models, but aren't in the realm of professional painters. The kinds of people who do a shade and a couple of highlights and take 1-2 hours to paint a model. For those sorts of people, swapping to oils has the potential to really boost their quality while taking a similar amount of time to paint a model. MarcoFrison does a great job showing what can be done with oils relatively quickly and I've linked one of his videos below (though I'm not sure I believe the times he quotes, they seem insanely fast for the quality of his work).

The two big downsides for oils for me was the drying time and the chemicals. The drying time is usually not an issue if you're painting a lot of models, because it's not like you're going to be painting an army one day and playing with it the next, waiting a week for things to cure isn't really a huge problem, but I have had the experience where even after a week I've picked up a model and left a finger print on it because it wasn't fully dry.

But the bigger problem for me is the chemicals required for thinning. I'm hypersensitive to a lot of chemicals, and oil paint thinners take their toll on my body so I've mostly stopped using them. In the past I'd only ever use oils for a few minutes at a time, but last time I painted a whole model in oils and so was exposing myself to the thinner for maybe a couple of hours and the next day I felt terrible. And yes, this is the odourless thinner! I can't smell it at all, but my body feels the effects anyway.






Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 05:08:15


Post by: hotsauceman1


 NAVARRO wrote:
Thanks @Theophony.

Yes, I was trying to open the debate to people thoughts regarding how the Miniatures paints industry is now and what "we need" or if there is a saturation of lines etc.
I guess some people just want to talk what they like most.

How many strong lines do we have now? 4 or 5? What are the main features that separate them? and what feature is NOT covered by others extensively that would make a new line more tempting?

If i was to say the strongest lines in terms os market Saturation are
GW(Easy to get a hold of and can do almost any technique well)
Army PAinter(same as GW, but more suited to layering and just painting a model)
Vallejo(Great for any lvl of painting, pretty much the best middle of the road paint)
Scale75(Super matte finish that doesnt mess with your eyes, decent range, alot of people use them)

You got P3, Reaper and some other ones but they are pretty much dead around here and i hear hard to get a hold of
Duncan always did well with just his tutorials using AP and GW. so im not sure what his brand bring.
ESPECIALLY is you have to special order them


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 05:13:37


Post by: Marshal Loss


Of no interest to me, but I wish him every success.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 07:02:15


Post by: Aash


I can understand why he is doing it, but for me what I've enjoyed from his videos since leaving GW was that he wasn't only using one line of products. Maybe the ones he used were due to sponsorship etc, but in my mind what differentiated him now from his tutorials for GW was the freedom to use whichever paint he thought was best for the task at hand rather than being limited to GW's range.

With his own line of paints he'll be using those and promoting his product rather than using the "best" product.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 14:11:27


Post by: NAVARRO


@AllSeeingSkink your store seems to be well stocked for sure!
Thanks for the Oil tips, much appreciated! Im quite of a Winsor and Newton fanboy too XD I have loads of W&N Pro watercolours and inks for my other art endeavours so I will check out the oil range more carefully.

I also noticed the colour vibrancy of oils VS acrylics is quite different. Ultimately depends on the colours chosen but I get the feeling for that extra pop to the eye on Fantasy miniatures oils have an advantage.
Marco does a great job with these tutorials and yeah he does claim to paint at the speed of light I think once you get the hang of it you will speed up the painting process. James Wappel streams are real time and yeah he also paints SO fast with oils, seems almost second nature to them.

Sorry to hear about your intolerance to the thinners man.

Regarding Duncan range and him putting his name on the pots and socials it seems he's looking into merging and create a brand of "painting Duncan way" with Duncan paints.
Unlike for example Marco or James as mentioned I cannot pinpoint a Duncan style of painting since its a copy extension of GW way of painting? So not sure about the branding.
Also phasing other brands and obviously support his own range will create a niche inside a niche, so your pool of interest will potentially shrink?

Either way I hope theres more to this than just another line of acrylics with a label. Like several expressed already here I do think I'm well covered if not spoiled with choice already when it comes with paint lines for miniatures.




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 20:35:24


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Azazelx wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Mario wrote:
Out of curiosity I'm looking through one Vallejo line (model colour) and they have nearly 200 paints in that one alone, plus all the specialty ranges. For me that already seems like way too many paints without even looking into what other lines have to offer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/model-color-en/

The Model Color line is aimed at the historical enthusiasts who can spend days arguing about which model paint exactly matches the shade of Panzergrau that was used in a specific location during a specific period of time, etc.


At this point in time I use more Model Colour than Game Colour or Citadel - and most of my stuff is still sci-fi/fantasy with a good chunk of that being Warhammers. It's nice to have the choice to use more nuance than just having the bright, saturated colours on the GW line. (though I like and use those too).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:

The market will decide if we need it or not, not you
Competition and choice is a sign of a healthy market.


Mate, YOU need to calm down a tad.

Your posting is unnecessarily aggressive - and I get it - you're probably locked down and stressed right now and watching it all re-unfold and likely haven't had a chance for any kind of shot. But yeah, calm down on the aggro.

Dakka isn't the abusive gakhole of twitter, but we do have healthy discussion back and forth, and people are certainly able to express their opinions, doubts, dislikes and reservations on any topic that comes up - there's no mandate for everything being sunshine and rainbows. There's also a couple of other people that have been pretty quick to throw out the old "toxic" who also need to calm the feth down with that sort of thing. Just because a person says something that another disagrees with, doesn't mean it's "toxic". That word is way too fething overused.


I'm sure he explained his unhealthy cynicism in the mature and well articulated one liner he dropped which "opens discourse" but sounded more like an angsty teenager having a whinge.

In the same sense it is telling both you and he avoid the actual discourse and opposing arguments.

Feel free to discourse the hell out of things that I mentioned. Otherwise agree to disagree. Saying "other paint lines exist" and ignoring counter arguments is not really a sufficient or convincing supporting position.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/18 22:38:20


Post by: Ghool


Cronch wrote:
I think "miniature" oil paints would be such a niche that it'd be barely worth opening/licensing production?


Cornering a small niche is the best way to guarantee income for a company these days.
I’d be all over a miniature oil paint line.
I’d say that it’s about the only niche not covered already. But as technology improves and knowledge grows, new products get produced using new technologies, further expanding knowledge again.
While I feel we might have reached somewhat of a plateau, I have still to find a good white, brush on primer, and bright yellows or oranges that can cover well in a single coat.

Scale75 seems to do well on Kickstarter, and have launched at least 3 paint lines over the past few years.
Their Artists line in the tubes are fantastic, and act very much like a gouache. I have a dozen colours and plan on getting the entire line. I’d give them a try no matter where you live, as the shipping from Spain is very reasonable.
I’d say it won’t be long before we’ll see an oil paint line.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/19 17:02:28


Post by: Monkeysloth


I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/19 20:29:35


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.


There is abteilung oils, though from people who use oils they describe them more as a mid ranged oil, and that if you actually want to paint with them (not just use them as effects) then going for one of the higher end artist oils is better. I’ve not personally used abteilung though.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/20 00:06:29


Post by: Mario


NAVARRO wrote:I never got to try the Rachham lines, at the time I lived in another country and it was not easy to get hold of them. Did you like them?
I've only heard about them. I used mostly Vallejo Model Color by then, although not a historical painter and don't care about their colour persnickety so I used that plus whatever of my Citadel paints hadn't dried yet (at the time GW had real problems with that). I have heard from others who used them that they issues with the line having been somewhat inconsistent. They also apparently felt more like acrylic paints that were used in animation. That also led to them separating a bit if you mixed them with other paints, meaning you had to mix them a bit if you let them stay without using your mix for a while. That also led to them overall having good coverage but being easier to rub off if you didn't seal them. It's been a long time but I think the explanation was that they created a thin film in a way that was different from other acrylic mini paints (that being what made them similar to the paints used by traditional animators). But somebody who knows them better should correct me here if my memory is bad.

Vallejos lines are big for sure, game colour and model colour and seems like they have expanded on to other ranges too.
I would be curious to see how many unique paint pots exist in total in the top 5 ranges, its probably something really scary.
So yes with hundreds of unique colours paint pots already widely available everywhere, yet to be tried or checked, Im not convinced I need more
Vallejo Model Color alone has close to 200 now. I think two decades ago they didn't have that many (just around 100 or so?), and also fewer special ranges. They had Air Color, a few of these fancy metallics, and Game Color had barely started and was a new line. Even within one line of paints this has gone off the rails.


I like to have several ranges, I think they complement each other like some yellows are great on X range but not so good on y range, metallics the same etc. But I also mix paints so its not that bad ( a reason I find scale 75 a bit strange was the same tone with different strengths ).
One range is enough for me, with metallics being the exception. I did start our really wanting to replicate certain (studio) paint jobs and being way too invested in collecting old paints that were not sold anymore (like GW's old ranges) until I realised that lighting/photography is a huge factor in all of this. After that I just wanted more simplicity and it became easier to quickly mix something as needed than to buy 10 different hues just to cover the whole paint chart possibility space. I also had the luxury of being able to stop worrying about coverage of certain colours (yellows, whites, oranges) as I switched to using white or light grey primer.

@Mario and chaos0xomega I agree the Drying times are something that really bothers me too with oil paintings. While talking live to Wappelius and others they say if you do it right it will dry in one day or so... what Im worried about is me not doing it right

I think its worth a go personally and just need to get my timings right to get a couple tubes and mess it up. Theres nothing better than to try it out by yourself before committing to a sizeable investment in time and money.
I never used oils much (too much of a hassle) but it seems that using them as finishing paints seems to be the easiest option. Paint or underpaint with acrylics then seal the mini and only then go over it with oils as needed. Oils have some colours that are hard to replicate with acrylics but I don't care about that (I also don't need vantablack on my minis). For me the speed at which they can be used for weathering was impressive but the extra work of switching paints/brushes/process was not worth it.

The one odd weathering medium that I kinda really like is this architects rust medium. It's a two step process. The first is metallic suspension that you apply where you want the rust to be and then an oxidising medium over that to create authentic rust (use separate brushes for those, and also separate from your other paint brushes). I tried googling for it but only got results for rust which wasn't helpful in this context.

Using oils as a final filter or for weathering works really well (and is really fast) then you just have to let them dry. In that way they can be a really nice, quick, and good looking textural bonus on an acrylic airbrush "base" that got a bit refined with acrylic brushwork first.

The thing about oils not drying is most probably about varnishing too quickly. I only know that from canvas painting but oil paints need time to dry. There are drying retarders that also work on minis but the workflow is still different from what we are generally used from painting with acrylics. So it can feel alien. I remember a painter having really interesting oil painting tutorials (on warseer?) about mini painting with oils in general (not just weathering) and that actually made me curious about trying. A somewhat prominent painter at the time (close to two decades ago) with a username that was, I think, related to tortoises in some way. They did a really good job making oils look worth it, even for me while I was trying to simplify my process and not buy a whole new range of paints, thinners, drying retarders, and brushes.

Duncan lines seems to be 10 pots on the picture so not that many for maybe a starter set. I just hope they bring something to the crowded pound.
That just gave me an idea. Having just one to three boxes of 10 to 15 paints (instead of a whole line of individual paints) would actually makes it seem more approachable. The fist could be a beginner box and the other two some sort of advanced and pro version. Then provide videos that focus on these (noob, advanced, pro) levels. Simple tutorials would only need the noob box, advanced could use noob and advanced, and pro tutorials could use all three.

It could be a way to introduce people to a bit colour theory and mixing while giving people an easy "quasi-subscription" into a line of tutorials. You'd be able to learn from noob tutorials with your own paints (might be a bit more work to get paints that fit the tutorials) or simply buy the noob box at a certain price point (like 15 paints for 30€ or whatever) and get all the colours you need for all the noob tutorials. Same for the other two difficulty levels. Kinda like a service or soft DRM for people who don't mind spending a bit of money, if that comparison makes sense.

Rebranding about 50 paints could hit that spot for people who want to improve but feel overwhelmed by all the choices that are already there and don't know where to start without buying stuff for 100€ and who then can apply that knowledge to other paint ranges once their confidence grows enough until they are willing to make more independent colour choices. And if they are used to his paints then they could keep buying those, especially if they come in a box that's has a bit of a discount over buying them individually.

Something like that would be easier on the inventory (three boxes, nothing more) and give people a reason to buy his paint sets (having tutorials that synergise well with these boxes but don't exclude other paint lines if you are willing to put in a bit of work into colour matching them). That being said, I have no idea how competitive the miniature paint range market is, how much space for another line there is, and at what volume it becomes viable to make a new line. I only know that paints supposedly have a really solid profit margin.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/20 07:38:16


Post by: Gimgamgoo


Mario wrote:
That just gave me an idea. Having just one to three boxes of 10 to 15 paints (instead of a whole line of individual paints) would actually makes it seem more approachable. The fist could be a beginner box and the other two some sort of advanced and pro version. Then provide videos that focus on these (noob, advanced, pro) levels. Simple tutorials would only need the noob box, advanced could use noob and advanced, and pro tutorials could use all three.


All well and good till one of the paints in your box runs out and you have to buy an entire box for that one paint. Individual pot sales are necessary still.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/20 18:49:49


Post by: Mario


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Spoiler:
Mario wrote:
That just gave me an idea. Having just one to three boxes of 10 to 15 paints (instead of a whole line of individual paints) would actually makes it seem more approachable. The fist could be a beginner box and the other two some sort of advanced and pro version. Then provide videos that focus on these (noob, advanced, pro) levels. Simple tutorials would only need the noob box, advanced could use noob and advanced, and pro tutorials could use all three.
All well and good till one of the paints in your box runs out and you have to buy an entire box for that one paint. Individual pot sales are necessary still.
Tell that to HP and other printer manufacturers (although some of them have started implementing continuous ink systems). But yeah, that's a good point.

Generally if you paint one miniature per tutorial then one set of paints should last you long enough for quite a lot of tutorials under normal circumstances and I didn't really conceptualise it further than that. I was trying to imagine some way of making "another line of paints" feel less like needing to buy into a huge system of boxes and individual paints and something very simplified, even if it has downsides. In a way Duncan grew out of the GW ecosystem and when a individual heroes or small squads tends to cost quite a bit then a set of paints at a a similar price point can feel reasonable too.

Making individual paint available would add a bit of complexity (and options) to the imagined system but it would still work with the overall idea of not introducing another 100 paints. That was the main point of the idea: To have a reason to not introduce a huge line of paints and to give people a reason to buy those sets so I ignored these side effects while trying to make an argument for such a pared-down system.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/20 19:22:02


Post by: NAVARRO


@Mario

I remember when Rackham released them and I was quite curious back then. Looks like I didn't miss much looking at @streetsamurai experience.

The more I dip into into the Oils the more it looks something to have on your arsenal. Found a water soluble Oils range from W&N named artisan too.
The fine artists W&N starters are affordable, so not that much of a big investment to begin with.
What I'm saying is that I doubt anyone in the miniature world could come up with a better formula than W&N and since those are not that expensive to begin with then its a no brainer.
Thanks for the tips and ideas Mario.
Tortoise that rings a bell, for sure, Im from those times too I vaguely remember a celtic rune tortoise avatar... damn my old age all is vague now.

As for Duncan starter sets that could work for the starting up fans but not sure for people who already have a paint range. Lets face it most newcomers will get in introduced by the GW world, already have GW paints and follow GW official tutorials... so Duncan will have to do something special to fish them to his range and tutorials which are not much different from GW's.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/20 20:05:37


Post by: catbarf


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The two big downsides for oils for me was the drying time and the chemicals. The drying time is usually not an issue if you're painting a lot of models, because it's not like you're going to be painting an army one day and playing with it the next, waiting a week for things to cure isn't really a huge problem, but I have had the experience where even after a week I've picked up a model and left a finger print on it because it wasn't fully dry.


Regarding drying time, I've been able to dramatically cut this down by using a cheap food dehydrator. I'm able to apply an oil wash, let it dry (few minutes), clean it up, and then pop it in the dehydrator for a few hours at 70C and it comes out cured. It's a little longer for actual layers of oil paint but beats the heck out of waiting over a week for it to slowly cure on its own.

But of course the solvents are another issue entirely. I think good ventilation and PPE are a must, and those are issues that a lot of people seem to face when airbrushes are discussed.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/20 22:23:46


Post by: Togusa


 streetsamurai wrote:
Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy). Might lose a good portion of his viewership


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
I fear that his paint line'll backfire, as others have said his work is aimed at rookie to intermediates, which made his use of citidel and army painter stuff a good call, as that stuffs everywhere. (hell even the local shop that only sells D&D and CCGs sells army painter paints) which ensures his guides are accessable. his own line however'll only be avaliable online I imagine and thus not terriably accessable to the newbiers and intermediates he's really courting


Well, that's pretty much what i meant, only it's more detailled and better written


Why? People tend to like having more choices. If he's going to launch his own line of paints, and people already watch him for his painting tips and style, I'd imagine they're going to be curious about trying out said new line of paints if it exists.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 14:06:21


Post by: deano2099


 streetsamurai wrote:
Could be a risky move for Duncan if he start mainly using them in his tutorial (and i would think that this will be is sale strategy). Might lose a good portion of his viewership


It's a really good point - I subscribe to Duncan's channel, it's only a few quid, I like his stuff, there's enough to make it worthwhile. And frankly he's doing tutorials at the sort of level I'm comfortable with. But I already own tons of Citadel paints. I like the fact that's mostly his focus but if another brand does a particular job better, he'll use that and I might pick it up if I feel like it.

The issue for me is paying for the tutorials, then paying for the paints to do the tutorials. By all means run a business that's a painting line and put out multiple free tutorials a week using those paints in order to sell them. That's a really good way to sell the paints! Or y'know, go for a hybrid model where I buy a box of paint and get a code for a 6-month sub or something like that. Or every month he posts me a new colour as part of my sub... whatever.

But as it stands I'm not really interested in buying another line of paints. Which means I'm probably not going to be interested in continuing to subscribe to the channel. Which ironically is the one thing that would make the paints worthwhile...


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 15:02:38


Post by: Theophony


I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 15:36:48


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 16:04:18


Post by: techsoldaten


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 16:16:47


Post by: Theophony


 techsoldaten wrote:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.


GW make their own videos about how to paint their models, their way, with their products. While I haven't paid too much attention to if Duncan only uses GW paints and brushes on GW models, if he were to use an army painter color or brush on their model they could get feisty. Also since they shut down the animator for doing GW IP material because he collected money, how is that any different that Duncan getting money from subscribers for doing his videos. Either he would have to make all the GW ones free, or not do any.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 16:21:46


Post by: Ghaz


 Theophony wrote:
Spoiler:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.


GW make their own videos about how to paint their models, their way, with their products. While I haven't paid too much attention to if Duncan only uses GW paints and brushes on GW models, if he were to use an army painter color or brush on their model they could get feisty. Also since they shut down the animator for doing GW IP material because he collected money, how is that any different that Duncan getting money from subscribers for doing his videos. Either he would have to make all the GW ones free, or not do any.

Duncan uses Army Painter brushes and paints.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 16:31:01


Post by: Polonius


Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 16:32:44


Post by: Theophony


 Ghaz wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
Spoiler:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
I'm wondering if he is doing this now with a little foresight to GW's new policy on IP infringement and copyright. Perhaps he heard of how they are cracking down on the monetized videos of GW IP and is creating his own paint line so he will have a trusty paint color to use on his channel. Who knows how stupid GW is going to get with the release of their statement today. Could they go after Duncan saying he is not allowed to paint his models on his subscriber channel because he is earning money off of their IP?


Really?
How can using a paint you've bought by a specific manufacturer in a video be IP infringement?
Just think of the bad press GW would get if they went after their ex-employee for advertising their product.


GW sued other companies for making shoulder pads compatible with their models.

I don't think it's a huge stretch to see them going after GW-focused channels on YouTube.


GW make their own videos about how to paint their models, their way, with their products. While I haven't paid too much attention to if Duncan only uses GW paints and brushes on GW models, if he were to use an army painter color or brush on their model they could get feisty. Also since they shut down the animator for doing GW IP material because he collected money, how is that any different that Duncan getting money from subscribers for doing his videos. Either he would have to make all the GW ones free, or not do any.

Duncan uses Army Painter brushes and paints.


I know he has used BOTH GW and Army Painter, has he recently switched over to JUST Army painter? My point is that GW might get touchy with him using Army Painter paints and brushes to paint a Primaris Marine.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 16:54:45


Post by: gorgon


 Polonius wrote:
Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


You know it's not about those pesky facts, though.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:04:19


Post by: Polonius


Yeah, admittedly IP law is tricky, with a lot of nuance, but this kind of thing is pretty clean cut.

There is also some slop between best practices (such as sitcoms using fake brands) and legal requirements. TVs and movies tend to use fake brands in order to create more value for paid product placement, or to maintain good relationships when a product might be shown in a negative light.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:24:26


Post by: NAVARRO


 Polonius wrote:
Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


Well theres the context that Duncan worked for GW and produced the exact same type of videos that he is monetising now and going one step further with his own line of paints ( brand identity issue?) ... Im not 100% sure if that would not be enough of a conflict of interests since Gw will have those same type of videos locked down and payed for with + channel with GW only paints.
Either way I though some contracts with employees would not allow you to pursue a line of business that is directly competing with the company your leaving for a determined amount of time. ( I hope and bet that is expired)

I dont think Duncan line of paints and videos will be something Gw will pursue, I mean seems far fetched but better safe than sorry and thats the paranoia GW wants you to be embedded in.

In short we dont have the full scope and we are all speculating, so I'm not sure if its as black or white as you are saying?



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:33:10


Post by: Arschbombe


 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.


Back in the day all we had were oils. Pollyscale came out with the first acrylics in the late 70s, early 80s. Before that you used Testors, Pactra, Floquil or Humbrol (in their terrible little tins). Oils are still around. Testors Model Master has at least two lines of oil-based enamels. Humbrol still sells enamels too. It's funny to see the worm turn and people going back to oils because of the painting qualities. Acrylics were adopted mainly for ease of use and safety reasons, not because they produced better results.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:39:31


Post by: Polonius


 NAVARRO wrote:

Well theres the context that Duncan worked for GW and produced the exact same type of videos that he is monetising now and going one step further with his own line of paints ( brand identity issue?) ... Im not 100% sure if that would not be enough of a conflict of interests since Gw will have those same type of videos locked down and payed for with + channel with GW only paints.


Brand identiy is literally trademark law. Taht means names, logos, trade dress, etc. Does Duncan's paint academy use the name, logo, or anything that would confuse a viewer that the were watching an official GW video?

Does it make even remote sense that GW could say "People associate Duncan painting videos with us, so now you can't make your own!"? It does not. GW cannot trademark "Duncan."

Either way I though some contracts with employees would not allow you to pursue a line of business that is directly competing with the company your leaving for a determined amount of time. ( I hope and bet that is expired)
That's a non-competivie agreement, whcih is fairly common among highly skilled or highly place employees. It's possible that GW had one, but that's a contract, not part of IP law.

I dont think Duncan line of paints and videos will be something Gw will pursue, I mean seems far fetched but better safe than sorry and thats the paranoia GW wants you to be embedded in.
I'm not sure I would ascribe motivation to GW. I think that IP infringement is super common in the hobby, so GW isn't being paranoid. Between 3d printing, cracked pdfs, and "chinacast" there's just so much piracy out there, GW is actually being borderline irresponsible not addressing it sooner.

In short we don't have the full scope and we are all speculating, so I'm not sure if its as black or white as you are saying?


Well, we know broadly the scope of the law, and what sort of behavior is generally seen as copyright infringement, and it's not happening. Nothing is absolute, but I would rate GW's ability to successfully take action against Duncan as very low.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:40:11


Post by: Ghaz


Duncan launched his Painting Academy over a year ago in March 2020. If he had any sort of 'non-compete' clause in his contract at GW it was most likely for three months as he left at the end of 2019. If he violated his 'non-compete' clause, GW would have taken action long ago.

 Theophony wrote:
I know he has used BOTH GW and Army Painter, has he recently switched over to JUST Army painter? My point is that GW might get touchy with him using Army Painter paints and brushes to paint a Primaris Marine.

Again, he uses Army Painter paints and brushes. That doesn't mean he uses them exclusively nor does he only use them on non Games Workshop models. He uses both lines of paints and brushes using the one which is appropriate for what effect he's looking for at the time.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:52:52


Post by: MaxT


Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:57:58


Post by: Arschbombe


MaxT wrote:
Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves


Fun fact: there are fast food chains in the US with non-compete clauses for their workers.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:58:37


Post by: Polonius


MaxT wrote:
Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves


Well, plenty of lousy companies try to get people sign non-competes, https://eig.org/noncompetesbrief

As a rule, if you're not important enough to a company to have a contract, than you probably shouldn't be important enough to have the non-compete. Which is why non compete clauses (as part of a bigger contract) are upheld more often than stand alone non complete agreements (where the only thing being signed on is the non compete).



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 17:59:26


Post by: Ghaz


MaxT wrote:
Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves

Duncan for a while was the face of Games Workshop, so he either did have a 'non-compete' clause as a part of his very visible role in the company or respected the company enough to sit out three months before launching his Painting Academy.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/21 18:08:21


Post by: Polonius


 Ghaz wrote:
MaxT wrote:
Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves

Duncan for a while was the face of Games Workshop, so he either did have a 'non-compete' clause as a part of his very visible role in the company or respected the company enough to sit out three months before launching his Painting Academy.


A very cursory look at UK law for this suggests that there probably either wasn't a non-compete, or it was unenforceable. The simple reason is that it's hard to argue with a straight face that Duncan is "competing" directly against GW, which would make that clause most likely overly broad.

It's also my understanding that the game design community in the UK is pretty "chummy," which means that NCCs might not be part of the culture.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 06:02:41


Post by: Monkeysloth


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.


There is abteilung oils, though from people who use oils they describe them more as a mid ranged oil, and that if you actually want to paint with them (not just use them as effects) then going for one of the higher end artist oils is better. I’ve not personally used abteilung though.


I forgot about those. I was looking at the rust set not to long ago even but decided I just didn't want to pick up all new auxiliary stuff for the paints.

Arschbombe wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm surprised there already isn't one with how much Wapple and the Massive Voodoo guys paint in oil already.


Back in the day all we had were oils. Pollyscale came out with the first acrylics in the late 70s, early 80s. Before that you used Testors, Pactra, Floquil or Humbrol (in their terrible little tins). Oils are still around. Testors Model Master has at least two lines of oil-based enamels. Humbrol still sells enamels too. It's funny to see the worm turn and people going back to oils because of the painting qualities. Acrylics were adopted mainly for ease of use and safety reasons, not because they produced better results.


Enamels really aren't oil paint in the classical sense. Yes, technically, they're a crude oil byproduct (from when gas is made from what I understand) which does make them "oil" based however oil paints are made with linseed oil. They also behave really differently too when painting.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 08:12:17


Post by: BrianDavion


 Polonius wrote:
Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


furthermore, IP law tends to have exceptions for certain cases, one of which is education, Duncan's videos are, pretty much by definition videos produced for educational purposes.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 10:48:51


Post by: Polonius


BrianDavion wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


furthermore, IP law tends to have exceptions for certain cases, one of which is education, Duncan's videos are, pretty much by definition videos produced for educational purposes.


That’s true, but be careful. Fair use is both complicated (multiple factors) and only applies to copyright, not to trade marks.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 10:50:28


Post by: kirotheavenger


Doesn't education only apply if you're educating people about the subject?
You don't get carte blanche to use whatever you want just because you're teaching someone something unrelated.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 11:15:22


Post by: techsoldaten


 Polonius wrote:
Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


Not sure anyone is concerned about a copyright lawsuit, hard to see GW marching Duncan into court for using their paints.

If GW wants to shut down an influencer on social media, brands have all kinds of tools available to do so. Channel strikes, shadowbans, etc are all things that can be leveraged to cut down on channel growth and reduce profitability for far less than the cost of a lawyer.

My sense is Duncan just wants to build a sustainable business and sees an in-house paint line as a way to accomplish that. He can't do that and promote Citadel paints at the same time.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 11:19:15


Post by: kirotheavenger


I agree, I think this is entirely Duncan growing and expanding his business.
He's mentioned he has multiple projects brewing, this is just the one he's announced (or perhaps more accurately heavily implied as we're working exclusively off of a picture here).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 19:52:06


Post by: hotsauceman1


I would not be surprised if we see a game from him.
Like one of those games that let you use any mini, but then he makes his own minis to go with it.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 19:54:11


Post by: kirotheavenger


I think that's a bit ambitious.
He's a painter, and it seems he's just a two man team.
I'd sooner imagine paint brushes, weathering, that sort of thing.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 20:08:08


Post by: Ghaz


https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/Announcing-the-Launch-of-Trans-Atlantis-Games

Announcing the Launch of Trans Atlantis Games

Industry Veteran Bob Watts is looking to bring more awesome things to your tabletop. He's joined up with Steve Herbert and Peter Buxton to bring you Trans Atlantis Games. Expect new minis, terrain, and other such elements coming soon.

From the release:

Trans Atlantis Games is the latest enterprise from industry veteran Bob Watts, who brings nearly a half a century of experience and expertise in the Hobby Games industry to this new venture.

Trans Atlantis Games will be creating brand new and exciting product ranges. Trans Atlantis Games will also be forming strategic partnerships with other game & entertainment companies and creators, leaning towards the 3D element of the hobby, focusing on tabletop miniatures games & accessories, as well as RPG miniatures.

Joining Bob at Trans Atlantis Games will be his colleague Steve Herbert, who will be overseeing all production, warehousing and shipping in the Liverpool UK facility, and Peter Buxton, a longtime associate of Bob and Steve's, who will be managing the business in Europe.

Trans Atlantis Games' initial strategic partnership is with Duncan Rhodes and Roger Yates from the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy. Duncan and Roger have been collaborating for many years, instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos, which can be found on YouTube and www.duncanrhodes.com


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 20:44:49


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


“instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos“

If by, “high standard” they mean, competent tabletop standard, then yeah.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/22 23:30:29


Post by: CMLR


This pretty much killed off my hopes of him having an epic crossover with Masterclass.

I could pay for his videos, but I'm going to wait until there is an actual large number of models I'm interesed in.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 00:37:44


Post by: Ghaz


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
“instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos“

If by, “high standard” they mean, competent tabletop standard, then yeah.

It's a news release, and not even one by Duncan. It has no more meaning than when GW says that the latest release is the 'best ever'...


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 02:43:31


Post by: Dagstyrr


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Duncan to me never seemed to really be that interesting. I tried watching his stuf and its kinda just mediocre.
He is middle of the road as what he is showing and doesnt try to teach anything beyond the model. No techniques or anything.


There are classic military model painters who'd you get more out of honestly. He's a nice guy but very basic technique wise.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 11:47:36


Post by: Irbis


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
“instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos“

If by, “high standard” they mean, competent tabletop standard, then yeah.

 Dagstyrr wrote:
There are classic military model painters who'd you get more out of honestly. He's a nice guy but very basic technique wise.

You guys are either snobs who have Giraldez in their gaming club or only watched his videos for very beginners on GW website if you think high end stuff he has on his page is 'very basic tabletop standard'


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 13:22:22


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Irbis wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
“instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos“

If by, “high standard” they mean, competent tabletop standard, then yeah.

 Dagstyrr wrote:
There are classic military model painters who'd you get more out of honestly. He's a nice guy but very basic technique wise.

You guys are either snobs who have Giraldez in their gaming club or only watched his videos for very beginners on GW website if you think high end stuff he has on his page is 'very basic tabletop standard'


Neither of us said ‘very basic tabletop standard’. I said ‘competent tabletop standard’, the other guy said ‘basic techniques’. You don’t get to pick and choose individual words, make your own sentences and claim it’s a quote.

I’m not a painting snob at all. However, I do think that a professional painting tutor charging money for access to his tutorials should be doing a lot more than basecoat, wash, edge highlight every single video. I admit, I’ve only watched the videos he has put out for free on YouTube, but haven’t seen anything in them that would make me want to pay for a subscription to his site. There are many much better painting videos available for free.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 13:58:31


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Irbis wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
“instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular videos“

If by, “high standard” they mean, competent tabletop standard, then yeah.

 Dagstyrr wrote:
There are classic military model painters who'd you get more out of honestly. He's a nice guy but very basic technique wise.

You guys are either snobs who have Giraldez in their gaming club or only watched his videos for very beginners on GW website if you think high end stuff he has on his page is 'very basic tabletop standard'


I enjoy watching Duncan, but to be honest, I don't think his painting style is great. That style (base, layer, shade, clean up shade with another coat of layer, highlight, highlight again) is quite time consuming for what I'd describe as a good but not exceptional result.

I find the quality to be too low for display models, but too time consuming for the rank and file troops.

But yeah, I do like Duncan, but I don't think I've ever followed one of his tutorials and mostly used them to get an idea of the colours he was using to get a certain look.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 14:24:57


Post by: NAVARRO


I have an issue with Duncan or for the matter GW videos, you seen one you seen them all, Im afraid.

Nice chaps but repeating ad eternal the same process does not add value to the tutorials. In fact I struggle to watch the full length of the tutorials and just skip them.

Quality assessment I think it depends on the eye of the beholder XD Its ok man.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 14:56:32


Post by: Polonius


I find the dunking on Duncan (wordplay!) to be a weird flex in the community. His stuff looks better than most fully painted armies, and of course better than the hordes of grey plastic that shows up to most shops.

His videos are clearly aimed at people that are either pretty new to painting, or that prefer higher production values. I find the actual material covered by, say Vince Ventrurella, of more value, but also not as pleasant to watch/listen to. So I get it


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 15:20:05


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Polonius wrote:
I find the dunking on Duncan (wordplay!) to be a weird flex in the community.
It's not really a "flex", I'm a terrible painter, Duncan is way better than me, I just find his technique in tutorials is not conducive to actually getting an army painted. Like, I watched one of his Ork / Orc tutorials, and yeah, it looked better than my Ork / Orc army, but if I followed his method it would have taken me 3 times longer to paint each model which would have meant I never would have finished the army, and they weren't THAT much better than mine, certainly not 3 times better.

But then, on the flip side, even though the style you get from Duncan's tutorials is clean and neat, it's really not up to the standard that a lot of folks paint for their display or centrepiece models.

Duncan's tutorials are probably good for someone painting their first model or two, learning brush control, how to thin paints, etc, but after that if you actually want to get your army painted I think even beginners should be looking into more intelligent ways of painting, like spraying a zenithal highlight with black/white and using inks, or blending their shades rather than doing the "shade it, then paint your base again" method, and then learning about painting volumes rather than just shading where the wash happens to fall.

I find the actual material covered by, say Vince Ventrurella, of more value, but also not as pleasant to watch/listen to. So I get it


I agree, I still watch Duncan's tutorials from time to time, but Marco Frisoni, Miniac, Squidmar, BuyPainted, Plasmo, and so on, those are the ones I watch to actually learn stuff.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 15:30:47


Post by: NAVARRO


Also if you are a company launching a new line of minis and have Duncan painting and helping out how would you address it?

They described Duncan as "Instructing hobbyists around the world to paint their models to a high standard via their popular video" and that sounds just fine to me.

Its a positive vibe and much better than GW silly speech of "best thing ever".

I think Duncan quality is ok and good but thats just my opinion and means nothing. It also means nothing that I would rather see him trying new techniques for the sake of my notion of Value. I mean he is a likeable chap and easy to listen so thats half of the battle for a good Vid tutorial.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/23 16:00:00


Post by: Koveras


 Arschbombe wrote:
MaxT wrote:
Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves


Fun fact: there are fast food chains in the US with non-compete clauses for their workers.


And they hold on front of a judge?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/24 01:06:13


Post by: Monkeysloth


Koveras wrote:
 Arschbombe wrote:
MaxT wrote:
Non competes are generally for higher ups where their skills and knowledge going to a rival could actually impact the business in a meaningful way. All respect to Duncan but no one gives a gak if a community manager type goes to a rival company or sets up themselves


Fun fact: there are fast food chains in the US with non-compete clauses for their workers.


And they hold on front of a judge?


No one really has tried as fast food workers cannot afford the cost of going to court to contest. Most NDA and Non-compete agreements in the US are signed by people they legally don't cover and the defendant would most likely win but for most it's not worth the risk of that potential 10% chance you loose and are left with tens of thousands in court costs and lawyer fees.

The one that most likely being referenced in this thread is Jimmy Johns (a sandwich place) that dropped the non-compete due to public mocking of them. It was a pretty bad PR move to have it in the first place but they did for years before it became news. I'm not aware of another that does but franchises could have those contracts so they could be tied to small regional areas. Jimmy John's was from the main cooperate office so everyone had to sign it.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/07/24 01:55:40


Post by: stratigo


 Polonius wrote:
Good lord, I really wish people would at least try to understand IP issues before commenting on them.

There is likely no action GW could bring against a painter for using their paints and minis and creating a how to paint video. The reason is that the creator isn't utilizing their characters or setting to create a new work, but rather creating a work using physical goods that GW sells. GW can copyright a primaris marine, but that just prevents people from selling other primaris marines. A video featuring a primaris marine that they bought is fine.

Same thing with paint names. They are trademarked, which means Duncan can't sell a paint named XV-88 or The Fang, but that does not mean you cannot make and sell a video using those products. To win an action, GW would have to claim that Duncan's use of their trademarked names would cause a confusion, and thus induce people to buy his product instead of GW paints, which is patently absurd.


There's no action GW could LEGALLY bring.

There's plenty of actions GW could take that would be adverse to a painting channel, costing them time and money and subscribers. And if GW is persistent enough, the channel's livelihood considering how the youtube enforcement is slanted 90 percent in favor of the claimant. Duncan could, theoretically, fight it in court. If he has enough money to.

The power is largely in the hands of GW and Youtube though, Duncan lives by then choosing not to exercise that power.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/24 18:09:44


Post by: Ghaz


A few tidbits from the video's comments. The Kickstarter should be live in a couple of weeks, glazes will be a part of Phase 2, there will be a conversion chart on the website, they're already working on a tutorial using the new paints, they're working on getting the paints into retail stores, 3 new gold paints using 'new technology',




A few tidbits from the video's comments:

The Kickstarter should be live in a couple of weeks.
Glazes will be a part of Phase 2.
There will be a conversion chart on the website.
They're already working on a tutorial using the new paints.
They're working on getting the paints into retail stores.
3 new gold paints using 'new technology'.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/24 19:13:32


Post by: Theophony



Well, Kickstarter and looks like there is an actual model of Sir two thin coats , Hopefully shipping won't kill this for me. I've enjoyed his painting videos and if I can get a good deal on the paints and support his endeavors.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/24 19:38:38


Post by: Gregor Samsa


Duncan is a likeable personality who helped a lot of people improve their skills. I doubt i'd have much use for the paints, but always interested in trying out new washes and so happy to chip a purchase in to help the guy out.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/24 21:36:18


Post by: The Phazer


I'd at least have a stab at golds/metallics with some novel formulation, given metallics are always awful.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/24 22:08:36


Post by: kirotheavenger


I'll be interested what these metals would bring to the table.
Unfortunately I already have far too many acrylic paints and don't have enough money to be spending it on a whim. Not to mention I prefer to avoid Kickstarters with a barge pole.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/25 09:47:40


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 The Phazer wrote:
I'd at least have a stab at golds/metallics with some novel formulation, given metallics are always awful.


Vallejo metals are pretty solid in my book.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/08/25 09:55:09


Post by: Sunno


Id be happy to give some of these a try if and when they get into shops via normal distro


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/03 16:45:16


Post by: Ghaz


The pre-launch Kickstarter page is up. The Kickstarter goes live next week according to the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy Facebook page.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/04 23:27:58


Post by: Ghaz


From the Trans Atlantis Games mailing list:

Hi

Trans Atlantis Games are proud to announce the launch of Two Thin Coats Paints, a new paint range developed in partnership with the Duncan Rhodes Painting Academy.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transatlantisgames/duncan-rhodes-painting-academy-two-thin-coats-paints

The Kickstarter campaign will go live on Tuesday the 7th of September 2021, at 9am EST (USA) and 2pm GMT (UK). You can click the link above to visit the campaign or to sign up for a reminder, to make sure you can get in for the early bird special to get the best deal possible.

Duncan Rhodes has probably assisted more hobbyists with painting miniatures than anyone else in the world with his instructional tutorials, which can now be found at www.duncanrhodes.com and on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/c/DuncanRhodesPaintingAcademy

The Two Thin Coats Paints Range consists of 60 high quality acrylic paints, each developed from the ground up with some of the best paint development chemists in the world. These are not paints we just bought off the shelf and bottled. We developed each colour to meet our high standards of what we thought a miniature paint should be. Whether you are a beginner or a seasoned painter, we believe that you’ll find using these paints an absolute joy to use! We are both extremely excited for hobbyists around the world to get their hands on these paints and to give them a whirl…or to apply two thin coats!

During the Kickstarter Campaign, anyone backing will have a great selection of stretch goals, versions of which will only be available during the campaign and give some hints of what may appear in the future.

Trans Atlantis Games is headed up by Industry veteran Bob Watts and his team of Industry Professionals spanning the globe to bring you high quality games and accessories.

We can be found at

https://transatlantisgames.com https://www.facebook.com/TransAtlantisGames https://www.instagram.com/transatlantisgames

Learn more and follow our project!

Thanks!

Trans Atlantis Games




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:07:30


Post by: Ghaz


The Kickstarter is now live and with a goal of $50,000 in the next 24 days they already have $17,000 pledged.

Kickstarter is FULLY FUNDED.





Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:33:50


Post by: ListenToMeWarriors


That turnaround of estimated delivery in January is pretty quick , you have to wonder how many of the paints have been made already.

I just hope that the estimated timely rollout is not adversely impacted by the success that this campaign already is. But choice of paint line is such an individual thing that I cannot personally justify backing this in any big way without having tried them first.

That said, all success to them.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:44:46


Post by: NAVARRO


Best of luck.

Odd colour choices since the majority is browns and greys? Not enough greens etc.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:50:18


Post by: oni


This isn't for me, but I'm genuinely excited to see Duncan succeed.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:51:38


Post by: Irbis


Carcharodon? Not Shark Grey? Someone slipped there


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:55:52


Post by: JWBS


That looks like the most basic B set of colours that's ever been brought together. Hopefully the quality is A++ cos the palette looks genuinely bad.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 13:58:47


Post by: Ghaz


 NAVARRO wrote:
Best of luck.

Odd colour choices since the majority is browns and greys? Not enough greens etc.

This is just the first phase. Duncan has confirmed glazes as a part of phase 2.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 14:05:21


Post by: Sacredroach


I'm in for the metallics, purples, browns and greys. I already have too many of those colors, but they seem to find a way into most of my projects.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 14:20:23


Post by: Cronch


 Irbis wrote:
Carcharodon? Not Shark Grey? Someone slipped there


Its a real word for real animals so


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 14:32:56


Post by: Cruentus


Hmm. This looks interesting, particularly as the starter colors shown appear in triads (shadow, base, highlight - or whatever the technical terms are).

I'm a sucker for paints, but wonder at what the pricing will be retail. The Kickstarter "starter" tier of 15 paints for $55 is $3.66 per bottle, with add on bottles at $4 per.

I think those do include shipping, but where is this likely to fall in the continuum of hobby paints price wise? Seems on the high side out of the gate.

Obviously a lot will depend on how they work, how well the trickier colors cover (looking at you, white and yellow). I'll also be waiting on release to stores, since the cost via kickstarter doesn't seem that great, and I have zero interest in bases as stretch goals.

Though they've already doubled their asking price out of the gate, with over 20 some days to go. Not bad.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 14:37:44


Post by: Commodus Leitdorf


This certainly is cool but I already have a pile of paint so I can't justify going in on this. That being said if my FLGS gets some in stock I'll pick up a few colours to give it a go.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 14:55:44


Post by: techsoldaten


 Cruentus wrote:
Hmm. This looks interesting, particularly as the starter colors shown appear in triads (shadow, base, highlight - or whatever the technical terms are).

I'm a sucker for paints, but wonder at what the pricing will be retail. The Kickstarter "starter" tier of 15 paints for $55 is $3.66 per bottle, with add on bottles at $4 per.

I think those do include shipping, but where is this likely to fall in the continuum of hobby paints price wise? Seems on the high side out of the gate.

Obviously a lot will depend on how they work, how well the trickier colors cover (looking at you, white and yellow). I'll also be waiting on release to stores, since the cost via kickstarter doesn't seem that great, and I have zero interest in bases as stretch goals.

Though they've already doubled their asking price out of the gate, with over 20 some days to go. Not bad.


Went in at the Grand Master tier, with the 25% discount the cost per pot is about $2.60.

Looking at the paint guide, everything down to about Dragon Fang is useful to me on current projects, along with the metallics and washes.

That's decent value. What would be helpful is a video demonstration of the paints in action, would love to see how the Reds operate in practice.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 15:08:16


Post by: Ghaz


 techsoldaten wrote:
What would be helpful is a video demonstration of the paints in action, would love to see how the Reds operate in practice.

There is a 30 minute video on the Kickstarter page (right above the Rewards) where Duncan uses the paints to paint Sir Coates.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transatlantisgames/duncan-rhodes-painting-academy-two-thin-coats-paints


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 15:38:09


Post by: Ian Sturrock


I backed at the £130 level (one of everything). I figure I'll have run out of at least *some* paints by January.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 16:09:44


Post by: NAVARRO


 Ian Sturrock wrote:
I backed at the £130 level (one of everything). I figure I'll have run out of at least *some* paints by January.


And we dakkaites can only expect a review from you good Sir.
Let us know how good these are


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 16:41:20


Post by: Ian Sturrock


I shall! In a completely anti-Duncan way, I shall most likely be using these to add extra colour depth to models already painted with Contrast, but WTF.

You will have to forgive my adequate quality paint jobs though...


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 16:58:38


Post by: Flinty


Hah. They have breached 300% in the first few hours. Hope they estimated their supply against the demand correctly


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 17:00:27


Post by: flaherty


 Irbis wrote:
Carcharodon? Not Shark Grey? Someone slipped there


I wonder if he got pre-clearance or at least inside chatter that no one would mind names like "Marine Blue" and "White Star" along with "Carcharodon" for grey?

Sure, Marine blue could be a reference to the Royal Navy, but it's also clearly Ultramarine blue. "White Star" and "White Scar" feels like tempting fate. Given GW's seemingly itchy trigger finger re: IP, Duncan's association with the GW brand, I would have gone with something like "Dragon tooth white" to put as much distance between my brand and GW's. I like DR and subscribe to his channel, just hope delivery won't be impacted by lawsuits!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 17:04:39


Post by: Flinty


Ultramarine is an actual colour name as well though.I think the genericness of the names will have been studied closely.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 17:20:15


Post by: Ghaz


 Flinty wrote:
Ultramarine is an actual colour name as well though.I think the genericness of the names will have been studied closely.

Yes. Ultramarine is a color dating back to the 14th and 15th centuries and originally made of ground lapis lazuli. Carcharodon is a genus of sharks, of which the only surviving member is the Great White.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 18:25:49


Post by: nightwolf2040


Noticed the paint shipped out of Liverpool UK wonder if this the same company that was involved in the ral partha Europe miniture paints Kickstarter??


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 19:43:45


Post by: GoldenHorde


Damn I wonder how all those salty out of touch detractors got it so wrong.
I mean they have postcounts way way higher than me, I guess "you only have 9 posts" is not an argument.

Hehe as I said the market will decide.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 20:35:26


Post by: oni


Color me surprised.

I didn't think it would do this well. I think the market is already over saturated with paint brands. But I'm happy for Duncan on his very successful Kickstarter.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 21:37:12


Post by: Sasorijap


I wonder how much it will reach before it is over.
Also i noticed the core box of Conquest on the background of the video!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 21:51:45


Post by: Ghaz


Sasorijap wrote:
Also i noticed the core box of Conquest on the background of the video!

Not surprising...

Spoiler:



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/07 23:57:36


Post by: techsoldaten


 GoldenHorde wrote:
Damn I wonder how all those salty out of touch detractors got it so wrong.
I mean they have postcounts way way higher than me, I guess "you only have 9 posts" is not an argument.

Hehe as I said the market will decide.


Eh. Let detractors detract, people get off on sharing their thoughts.

It's valid to say the market is oversaturated with paint lines. It's also valid to say there are paint junkies who will try anything to up their game. It's clear they're less vocal, we're getting a taste of their enthusiasm.

Duncan reminds me of Lester Bursley circa 2010. Lester's airbrush and wash tips inspired me to take my work up several levels. Duncan has a similar appeal, he's very consistent and the "two thin coats" motto always struck me as an admission of some of the drawbacks to Citadel paints. Not that they're hopelessly defective, but that technique is important for achieving good results.

Maybe I'm naive, but I trust this line will reflect some introspection after his time working with Citadel paints. There's always ways to make something better, and I'm looking forward to working with them.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 00:41:50


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 flaherty wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Carcharodon? Not Shark Grey? Someone slipped there


I wonder if he got pre-clearance or at least inside chatter that no one would mind names like "Marine Blue" and "White Star" along with "Carcharodon" for grey?

Sure, Marine blue could be a reference to the Royal Navy, but it's also clearly Ultramarine blue. "White Star" and "White Scar" feels like tempting fate. Given GW's seemingly itchy trigger finger re: IP, Duncan's association with the GW brand, I would have gone with something like "Dragon tooth white" to put as much distance between my brand and GW's. I like DR and subscribe to his channel, just hope delivery won't be impacted by lawsuits!


Marine just means "something to do with water". "Carcharodon" is a genus of shark, GW named a space marine chapter after sharks, that doesn't entitle them trademark/copyright of a common scientific name for anything other than a Space Marine chapter. And "White Star", well, stars look white. You also have the White Star Line of ships, probably most famous for the Titanic.

Nothing jumps out as me as being something that might be a problem in terms of IP, they're all common words.





Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 01:18:55


Post by: Ghaz


From Wikipedia:

The name derives from Middle Latin ultramarinus, literally "beyond the sea" because it was imported from Asia by sea.

GW named their 'Ultramarines' after the color Ultramarine, a name which has been in use for centuries.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 08:18:37


Post by: deano2099


It's doing well but don't be fooled by the $50k target, that's nowhere near enough to properly get it going, but the meta on Kickstarter these days is to have a low goal so you can go "funded in 2 hours" and start getting people excited about stretch goals. The "Sir Coates" mini was talked about in the promo videos and that's the $125K stretch goal, so I'd imagine that's the actual goal. They've soared past that as well though.
I'm torn at the moment - the big set isn't badly priced but I wish the stretch goals were more paints rather than minis that I have no real use for. The agitators are cool though.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 09:39:39


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Might be worth feeding back about wanting more paints rather than minis. I backed to get one of everything, but I'd also prefer to swap the minis out for extra paints I'd use a lot of, on a one for one basis.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 10:35:04


Post by: Theophony


 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Might be worth feeding back about wanting more paints rather than minis. I backed to get one of everything, but I'd also prefer to swap the minis out for extra paints I'd use a lot of, on a one for one basis.


I’d highly doubt that would be feasible. I’m sure they have retail packaging sorted out already and quantities lined up. I wouldn’t be surprised if the main sets didn’t come with one of these figures, or another version of these figures at retail. They probably also have the shipping boxes sorted as to what sizes will be needed for the main pledges. Any sort of massive change to the plan would need adjusting of all of those items. Plus minis for paints . They want you to have more to paint so you’ll need to order more paints .


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 11:02:19


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Theophony -- yeah, except -- they already have an option of letting you pick which paints you want, in each pledge.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 11:50:20


Post by: Theophony


 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Theophony -- yeah, except -- they already have an option of letting you pick which paints you want, in each pledge.


Just like CMoN, they will have the prepackaged 60 (one of each) which will most likely be 4 trays that each hold 15 paints. The other levels are a 15 pack and a 45 pack, also divisible by 15, so each will have 1 and 3 trays. The extras will probably fit a different tray the same size as the paint trays with multiple trays for miniatures and bases depending on stretch goals. If someone were to order an odd number(not 15) of paints, then they will probably use a 15 tray and leave the voids or have some sort of filler. But that way they can say this bloke ordered 9 trays worth, so we used box 4b to package it. It’s all preplanned in logistics ahead of time...hopefully. This is one of those steps that early kickstarters got themselves screwed on by not preparing. I think CMoN have it down to a science. It also gives them extra flex space if they don’t reach all the goals they can still “give” a bonus for showing such great support, or in CMoN terms, after we factored in the sales in China we hit a couple more goals.

Another nice stretch goal could be download of a 3D print file for paint racks to hold the new paints. I didn’t look to close at the Kickstarter as we’ve had two medical emergencies, roof damage and me starting a new job yesterday after leaving my old one on Friday.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 12:20:24


Post by: Irbis


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
"Carcharodon" is a genus of shark, GW named a space marine chapter after sharks, that doesn't entitle them trademark/copyright of a common scientific name for anything other than a Space Marine chapter.

I like how people armchair lawyer stuff they know nothing about. GW can't trademark just "Carcharodon", but they absolutely can if "Carcharodon" is used with dark grey/hobby supplies used with their chapter of SM. Associations count. Milka (the chocolate) has a trademark on the shade of purple they use for their sweets, because of specific association. Other companies do too, even though it's "just" color. Ditto with "Ultramarine", on its own, it's fine, but give it the shade of blue GW uses and make it a hobby supply and GW will win it easily.

Now, I am pretty sure GW will do nothing about it (unlike the other thread full of strawmen thinking GW is Palpatine 2.0 instead of company defending their property would want you to believe). I just find interesting DR went past that line instead of just calling it safe like "Shark Grey" or something. Maybe he got okay from GW or lawyer, dunno, but it's weird he did a single blatant reference instead of none or several.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 13:01:22


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Irbis wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
"Carcharodon" is a genus of shark, GW named a space marine chapter after sharks, that doesn't entitle them trademark/copyright of a common scientific name for anything other than a Space Marine chapter.

I like how people armchair lawyer stuff they know nothing about.
It's not really armchair lawyer as so blatantly obvious that it doesn't need a lawyer.

GW can't trademark just "Carcharodon", but they absolutely can if "Carcharodon" is used with dark grey/hobby supplies used with their chapter of SM.
Carcharodon Grey as used in Duncan's colour line is a similar grey to the sharks for which the word Carcharodon comes from.

It'd be like naming a group of blue orcs "Sky Orcs" and then trying to get IP protection on naming a colour "Sky Blue". GW could try and go after it but it'd be completely stupid to try. I would hope they would have learned from Chapterhouse when they tried and failed to claim infringement on halberds and broadswords, lol. It's no different than the several companies that have a blue-grey that they call "wolf grey".

Associations count. Milka (the chocolate) has a trademark on the shade of purple they use for their sweets, because of specific association.


Sure, but Duncan isn't advertising a line of Space Marines, he's advertising a line of paints. Carcharodon is a genus of shark, sharks that are grey, and his paint is grey, hence he's calling it Carcharodon Grey. Even if he was advertising armoured Space Men, that would be riskier but I doubt an infringement on an armour colour would hold up given many colours have been used historically for military uniforms. Ultramarines may be a GW thing, but blue uniforms have been used historically, and many historical forces have used grey uniforms of varying type. It's certainly not the same as having purple packaging on a chocolate block when your goal is to get people to mistake a popular chocolate block for your own.

But that's not what Duncan is doing anyway, he's advertising grey paint, not grey future-armoured-soldier-dudes.

Maybe if GW had released a paint called Carcharodon <something> it might be a bad idea, but it seems Duncan has been careful to avoid using GW's names in a way that could look like it was stepping on copyright (at least to anyone who knows anything about the world outside GW).

Other companies do too, even though it's "just" color. Ditto with "Ultramarine", on its own, it's fine, but give it the shade of blue GW uses and make it a hobby supply and GW will win it easily.


You do realise Ultramarine Blue has been a thing for hundreds of years and many companies make and sell Ultramarine Blue?

http://langridgecolours.com/ultramarine-blue-oil-colour/

https://www.newtownartsupplies.com.au/old-holland-oil-paints-40ml-series-a-ultramarine-blue/

https://artspectrum.com.au/products/artists-oil/ultramarine-blue-series-1/

https://www.winsornewton.com/na/product/professional-acrylic/?attribute_pa_wn_colour_name=ultramarine-blue&attribute_pa_wn_colour_size=60ml

I can understand being a bit concerned about "Carcharodon Grey" if you don't know that it refers to a shark, but GW going after anyone using "Ultramarine Blue" would be completely batgak insane when it's been a common paint name since forever.




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 13:13:20


Post by: eldomtom2


 flaherty wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Carcharodon? Not Shark Grey? Someone slipped there


I wonder if he got pre-clearance or at least inside chatter that no one would mind names like "Marine Blue" and "White Star" along with "Carcharodon" for grey?

Sure, Marine blue could be a reference to the Royal Navy, but it's also clearly Ultramarine blue. "White Star" and "White Scar" feels like tempting fate. Given GW's seemingly itchy trigger finger re: IP, Duncan's association with the GW brand, I would have gone with something like "Dragon tooth white" to put as much distance between my brand and GW's. I like DR and subscribe to his channel, just hope delivery won't be impacted by lawsuits!

IIRC none of GW’s paint names are actually trademarked.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 13:20:22


Post by: kodos


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You do realise Ultramarine Blue has been a thing for hundreds of years and many companies make and sell Ultramarine Blue?


Yes, and it is "Ultramarines" not "Ultramarine" which is a small but very important difference as a blue colour named after 40k Ultramarines is perfectly fine as trademark no matter how long the colour Ultramarine already exists



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 14:03:42


Post by: Cronch


yes, but ultamarines are a unique concept.
The shark genus carcharodon is not, and the only living shark of this genus is, in fact, grey.

It's a descriptive name that uses absolutely no IP owned by anyone.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 15:12:30


Post by: Polonius


eldomtom2 wrote:
IIRC none of GW’s paint names are actually trademarked.


They are not registered as trademarks, but under common law (US and UK) registration is not required to gain some ability to protest your trademarks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kodos wrote:
Yes, and it is "Ultramarines" not "Ultramarine" which is a small but very important difference as a blue colour named after 40k Ultramarines is perfectly fine as trademark no matter how long the colour Ultramarine already exists


This is very arguable. Usually a business cannot trademark a common term, even with a slight tweak such as pluralization. I wouldn't bet heavily either way, but I think this is getting into the area where we would need an actual IP practitioner in the relevant jurisdiction to have a strong idea.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I can understand being a bit concerned about "Carcharodon Grey" if you don't know that it refers to a shark, but GW going after anyone using "Ultramarine Blue" would be completely batgak insane when it's been a common paint name since forever.




Wow, there's a lot of words about something that does not seem fully understood.

Trademarks are, quite literally marks of trade, meaning all of the names, designs, colors, etc. that make up how a company does business. This is why I can't open up a coffee shop and call in Starbucks Coffee, but it's also why I can't start a package delivery company and use the exact same shade of brown UPS does, or why I can't open any business with the name General Electric.

Trademarks can be registered or unregistered, when you try to register the trademark office will make sure it is unique, not generic, and otherwise acceptable. The rules explicitly preclude trademarking a descriptive word, such as "creamy" for yogurt, which is why ultramarine blue cannot be trademarked. Fanciful words, meaning words that are made up, are the best for trademarking, hence Orruks and XV-88.

The more widespread a trademark is, the more it can push other uses out of the market. A company like GE could probably preclude any business from using those words as it's name. A business like, say, Privateer Press, might not be able to stop another business that is in a different industry. As anybody that has googled Armorcast, you get a couple of different businesses.

So, GW could have trademark protection for Charcarodon Grey if they had made that paint color, and then nobody else could use it. They did not, and have slept on their chance. (notably, because Charcarodon is not a normal descriptive for colors, paints, etc. it would likely be seen as a "suggestive" rather than "descriptive" name. https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/strong-trademarks



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 19:28:53


Post by: Ghaz


It looks like they're running out of stretch goals...



At $550K backers at the Apprentice pledge and above receive 3 free empty Two Thin Coats paints bottles so they can mix their very own custom triad!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 19:48:04


Post by: JWBS


Wow, if you can't be bothered to buy empty bottles by the dozen or get them shipped from China, those 3x empty TTC bottles have a value of up to £0.50 each! Amazing!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 20:20:27


Post by: Mario


techsoldaten wrote:
Spoiler:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Damn I wonder how all those salty out of touch detractors got it so wrong.
I mean they have postcounts way way higher than me, I guess "you only have 9 posts" is not an argument.

Hehe as I said the market will decide.


Eh. Let detractors detract, people get off on sharing their thoughts.

It's valid to say the market is oversaturated with paint lines. It's also valid to say there are paint junkies who will try anything to up their game. It's clear they're less vocal, we're getting a taste of their enthusiasm.


Duncan reminds me of Lester Bursley circa 2010. Lester's airbrush and wash tips inspired me to take my work up several levels. Duncan has a similar appeal, he's very consistent and the "two thin coats" motto always struck me as an admission of some of the drawbacks to Citadel paints. Not that they're hopelessly defective, but that technique is important for achieving good results.

Maybe I'm naive, but I trust this line will reflect some introspection after his time working with Citadel paints. There's always ways to make something better, and I'm looking forward to working with them.
Two thin coast is not an admission of drawback. It's simply how you usually get a better result, no matter the paint line, or individual paint consistency issues. It's usually said that two/three thin coats are better for a clean paint job than one undiluted layer. You have less of a chance of streaks or "blobbing" over tiny details. That way your further layers have a nice base to work on without, for example, streaks getting in the way of highlight layers and creating unwanted textures.

Thinned to that consistency (where you need two/three layers) paints also give you great control over their application (without being runny like washes) and are useful for layering (highlights and shading) due to not covering fully. That "motto" has been a thing decades before Duncan made videos for GW and is one of the first tips a new painter tends to get. He made it his trademark in his videos and it's a good idea to instill in newbie painters. A bit of transparency is generally a feature and if somebody wants to get a easy/simple coverage very quickly then a very cheap airbrush could probably be a good investment to save time and get a clean basecoat coat (even if it's a bit of an upfront investment) because it doesn't rely on a specific paint (or paint line) to do that job (and delivers exceptionally smooth coverage in a fraction of the time).

On the side of the viability of this paint line. There's nothing in this line of paints that'd be useful for me. I simply have no use for that type of "triads" and it seems to be aimed at painters who like such a shading system. I am/was still not sure another line of paints would be that useful but I'm happy if it works out for them. And the kickstarter seems to be doing exceptionally well. We'll have to see how it turns out.

My one worry is that the kickstarter might unintentioanlly end up on the "pre-order something limited" side of kickstarter patterns like with those projects where the people who really want something get it early and a bit cheaper but where demand ends up drying up after that. The kickstarter money should give them some financial breathing room, hopefully until the people who have pre-bought it run out of paint and need more if that's the bulk of their audience.

I do wonder if they already have some sort of connections to stores to sell their lines despite the kickstarter "financing" it. Relying on kickstarter and your own online sales might be a bit too limited of an approach for a paint line but I also haven't read about their plans so they might have mentioned something about their plans for the future somewhere else.

Ghaz wrote:From Wikipedia:

The name derives from Middle Latin ultramarinus, literally "beyond the sea" because it was imported from Asia by sea.

GW named their 'Ultramarines' after the color Ultramarine, a name which has been in use for centuries.
I think the joke was that GW named them Ultramarines, after the colour, while giving then a slightly different tone that's decidedly not ultramarine, the named colour (the actual colour being a bit darker and purplish).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 21:18:32


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Three empty bottles feels like a joke Christmas present from a step-parent who hates you

you kind of hope that there's maybe some kind of an inner joke, whereby your real present is concealed somewhere in the packaging

but no it's just three empty bottles


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/08 21:26:30


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Polonius wrote:

Wow, there's a lot of words about something that does not seem fully understood.


I will fully admit I am not a lawyer (and basically did in my previous post), yet you didn't seem to add anything contradictory to what I said? What you said in your post was touched on in my post when I said...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sure, but Duncan isn't advertising a line of Space Marines, he's advertising a line of paints.

...

Maybe if GW had released a paint called Carcharodon <something> it might be a bad idea


Storm in a teacup I'd say, whether or not Duncan specifically got permission from GW I doubt he'd have any problem with any of his colour names.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mario wrote:
Ghaz wrote:From Wikipedia:

The name derives from Middle Latin ultramarinus, literally "beyond the sea" because it was imported from Asia by sea.

GW named their 'Ultramarines' after the color Ultramarine, a name which has been in use for centuries.
I think the joke was that GW named them Ultramarines, after the colour, while giving then a slightly different tone that's decidedly not ultramarine, the named colour (the actual colour being a bit darker and purplish).

I thought Ultramarines were roughly the colour you get if you painted the colour Ultramarine over a white canvas?

I dunno, I'm neither an Ultramarines player nor an artist, lol. Maybe they're closer to Cobalt?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 04:14:21


Post by: Zethnar


Honestly, the specific colour of Ultramarines has drifted all over the place depending on who has been painting them over the years, much like the rest of the chapters.

At the end of the day GW can't trademark the word. Beyond that the paint line isn't even using Ultramarine, just Marine, which is a reference to the ocean and a perfectly acceptable word to use to describe a blue colour.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 04:23:47


Post by: techsoldaten


Mario wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
Spoiler:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Damn I wonder how all those salty out of touch detractors got it so wrong.
I mean they have postcounts way way higher than me, I guess "you only have 9 posts" is not an argument.

Hehe as I said the market will decide.


Eh. Let detractors detract, people get off on sharing their thoughts.

It's valid to say the market is oversaturated with paint lines. It's also valid to say there are paint junkies who will try anything to up their game. It's clear they're less vocal, we're getting a taste of their enthusiasm.


Duncan reminds me of Lester Bursley circa 2010. Lester's airbrush and wash tips inspired me to take my work up several levels. Duncan has a similar appeal, he's very consistent and the "two thin coats" motto always struck me as an admission of some of the drawbacks to Citadel paints. Not that they're hopelessly defective, but that technique is important for achieving good results.

Maybe I'm naive, but I trust this line will reflect some introspection after his time working with Citadel paints. There's always ways to make something better, and I'm looking forward to working with them.
Two thin coast is not an admission of drawback. It's simply how you usually get a better result, no matter the paint line, or individual paint consistency issues. It's usually said that two/three thin coats are better for a clean paint job than one undiluted layer. You have less of a chance of streaks or "blobbing" over tiny details. That way your further layers have a nice base to work on without, for example, streaks getting in the way of highlight layers and creating unwanted textures.

...


Thank you for explaining paint, it was a mystery to me. You're very generous, going into such detail.

Like I said, technique is important for achieving good results. Duncan's GW videos put a particular emphasis on that point, take from it what you will.

Pretty sure this line will be judged by it's whites and yellows. Those seem to be the ones GW has the most trouble with.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Three empty bottles feels like a joke Christmas present from a step-parent who hates you

you kind of hope that there's maybe some kind of an inner joke, whereby your real present is concealed somewhere in the packaging

but no it's just three empty bottles


I took it as exactly that. Hey, the campaign was more successful than we expected, we've run out of rewards for stretch goals! Have some empty bottles.

The next stretch goal is a blood effect paint. Seems more useful.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 06:36:11


Post by: JWBS


Three empty bottles. Not ten or fifteen. It's three.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 07:21:29


Post by: Flinty


It’s also free on top of meaningful discounts to the paints themselves and a bunch of other random stuff. Even though there are only 3, the bottles may well be more useful than individual bases for many people.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 07:30:16


Post by: JWBS


It's literally £0.12 worth of petroleum product, and I'd argue that anyone that wants to take their painting to a level of needing special mixing bottles (everyone, imo, but I'm a painter so I would say that), needs thirty empty bottles, not three, and they can buy thirty for £5 on ebay or whatever other commerce site they would prefer. Seems like a non-stretch goal to me, but then again I'm obviously not his target audience.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 09:36:08


Post by: deano2099


 Flinty wrote:
It’s also free on top of meaningful discounts to the paints themselves and a bunch of other random stuff. Even though there are only 3, the bottles may well be more useful than individual bases for many people.


Yeah the "one base" seemed even more egregious to me. Seems more like a literal promo- "here, have a free base, we hope you like it and buy more". There's little value to the bottles but it's not like they're then going to be trying to sell me more empty bottles. Probably not. Maybe.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 10:38:53


Post by: GoldenHorde


Duncan's Kickstarter is almost at 1 million $


So much for the salty "has been" comment


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 11:46:35


Post by: Theophony


deano2099 wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
It’s also free on top of meaningful discounts to the paints themselves and a bunch of other random stuff. Even though there are only 3, the bottles may well be more useful than individual bases for many people.


Yeah the "one base" seemed even more egregious to me. Seems more like a literal promo- "here, have a free base, we hope you like it and buy more". There's little value to the bottles but it's not like they're then going to be trying to sell me more empty bottles. Probably not. Maybe.


THIS is what I saw wrong with Kickstarter. People keep saying they should get more and more value. There is only so much that can be given out without losing money.

FREE bottles- I don’t get any value out of this- sorry, but some might.
A free base- why only one- something to try the paints on and see how you like the product, it might be another Kickstarter, or just to help promote the brand. If they gave you 20 bases, would that be enough for your army? Probably not and then there’s would be the critiques that they are round and not square, or not tapered like GW, or I need 3 oblong ones for my bikes instead of infantry.

These are all extras you get...FREE. Now if it causes extra shipping because he gives you 30 empty bottles that you don’t want but have to accept, then complain otherwise it’s just first world problems.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 12:32:26


Post by: Polonius


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

Wow, there's a lot of words about something that does not seem fully understood.


I will fully admit I am not a lawyer (and basically did in my previous post), yet you didn't seem to add anything contradictory to what I said? What you said in your post was touched on in my post when I said...



Yeah, I realized I didn't quote that as well as I could have. I was responding more to the same points you addressed, just (hopefully) with a bit more clarity.

I guess the IP stuff kind of annoys me. It's admittedly a somewhat counterintuitive area of law, but it's not obscure or arcane. Both the US and UK have governmental websites explaining the stuff, and it's pretty simple to find answers to these questions.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 12:33:27


Post by: a_typical_hero


 GoldenHorde wrote:
Duncan's Kickstarter is almost at 1 million $

So much for the salty "has been" comment

Dude, I have absolutely no horse in this topic, just from an outside viewer: The comments you keep referencing back at in a "see, I WAS RIGHT NOT YOU" kind of way were ok. Nothing salty, hateful or trollish about them. You have a needlessly aggressive way of posting that makes reading your input unlikable. Your reaction to the initial comments seemed like somebody offended you personally.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 12:35:50


Post by: Polonius


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Polonius wrote:

Wow, there's a lot of words about something that does not seem fully understood.


I will fully admit I am not a lawyer (and basically did in my previous post), yet you didn't seem to add anything contradictory to what I said? What you said in your post was touched on in my post when I said...



Yeah, I realized I didn't quote that as well as I could have. I was responding more to the same points you addressed, just (hopefully) with a bit more clarity.

I guess the IP stuff kind of annoys me. It's admittedly a somewhat counterintuitive area of law, but it's not obscure or arcane. Both the US and UK have governmental websites explaining the stuff, and it's pretty simple to find answers to these questions.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 13:54:01


Post by: deano2099


 Theophony wrote:
deano2099 wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
It’s also free on top of meaningful discounts to the paints themselves and a bunch of other random stuff. Even though there are only 3, the bottles may well be more useful than individual bases for many people.


Yeah the "one base" seemed even more egregious to me. Seems more like a literal promo- "here, have a free base, we hope you like it and buy more". There's little value to the bottles but it's not like they're then going to be trying to sell me more empty bottles. Probably not. Maybe.


THIS is what I saw wrong with Kickstarter. People keep saying they should get more and more value. There is only so much that can be given out without losing money.

FREE bottles- I don’t get any value out of this- sorry, but some might.
A free base- why only one- something to try the paints on and see how you like the product, it might be another Kickstarter, or just to help promote the brand. If they gave you 20 bases, would that be enough for your army? Probably not and then there’s would be the critiques that they are round and not square, or not tapered like GW, or I need 3 oblong ones for my bikes instead of infantry.

These are all extras you get...FREE. Now if it causes extra shipping because he gives you 30 empty bottles that you don’t want but have to accept, then complain otherwise it’s just first world problems.


They're not free though are they? They're part of the price you pay for the pledge. Yes, at the moment, this KS isn't quite good enough value for me. I've pledged, because with the early-bird it's cheaper, but if the value isn't there I'll drop it before the end of the campaign.

If the KS was nothing more than the paints with no stretch goals, and then they said after everyone had paid, "here's some free stuff you weren't expecting" that'd be fair enough. But they're not. If you add something in for "free" before the purchase it's not really free, however you dress it up. It's not really a problem with KS, it's a problem that the core offering isn't being seen as great value by some people. And I don't have any problem with it, I'm not sure who the "problem" you see is for?

A $20K car that comes with free mats throughout is the exact same as a $20K set of mats that comes with a free car. The second is not a rip-off and the first a nice bonus.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 14:38:08


Post by: techsoldaten


deano2099 wrote:
They're not free though are they? They're part of the price you pay for the pledge. Yes, at the moment, this KS isn't quite good enough value for me. I've pledged, because with the early-bird it's cheaper, but if the value isn't there I'll drop it before the end of the campaign.

If the KS was nothing more than the paints with no stretch goals, and then they said after everyone had paid, "here's some free stuff you weren't expecting" that'd be fair enough. But they're not. If you add something in for "free" before the purchase it's not really free, however you dress it up. It's not really a problem with KS, it's a problem that the core offering isn't being seen as great value by some people. And I don't have any problem with it, I'm not sure who the "problem" you see is for?

A $20K car that comes with free mats throughout is the exact same as a $20K set of mats that comes with a free car. The second is not a rip-off and the first a nice bonus.


The point of stretch goals is to entice backers to encourage others to participate.

Crowdfunding only works at scale. Unless you have an established brand and dedicated following, success typically depends on maximizing the number of backers. Stretch goals are supposed to give backers an incentive to market the campaign and ensure it will be funded.

From that standpoint, I wouldn't be looking to stretch goals as a source of value. They're more a pat on the back than anything. When I looked at it, I saw value in the following:

- the paints are close matches to GWs existing range

- there's a clear triad system for achieving consistent results

- the cost per bottle is around $3, which is low

- I'm genuinely curious about different paint lines

- I trust the creator and wish him success

It's nice that some novelty miniatures come along with the campaign, but those wouldn't affect my decision whether or not to back. However, those novelty miniatures might get me to post something about the campaign on the Interwebs.






Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 14:54:27


Post by: deano2099


 techsoldaten wrote:


The point of stretch goals is to entice backers to encourage others to participate.

Crowdfunding only works at scale. Unless you have an established brand and dedicated following, success typically depends on maximizing the number of backers. Stretch goals are supposed to give backers an incentive to market the campaign and ensure it will be funded



It's likely our experience of crowdfunding is different, and paints are certainly something I've not backed on Kickstarter before, but certainly it's much more cynical than that on most board game Kickstarters. All the stuff Awaken Realms do for example generally sees a campaign with stretch goals that amount to an entire extra box of content at least the size of the base game, if not larger in "stretch goals". They are there to make you think you're getting much better value for money than you are, because you're getting all this "free" stuff which has actually been accounted for in the original price.
I've no doubt that other campaigns certainly use stretch goals in the way you're describing but it's the only way. The fact that the Sir Coats mini formed part of the pre-campaign hype suggests that it was at least planned in part all along. Though we may well now be at the point of stretch goals that they're making up as they go along!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 16:17:43


Post by: techsoldaten


deano2099 wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:


The point of stretch goals is to entice backers to encourage others to participate.

Crowdfunding only works at scale. Unless you have an established brand and dedicated following, success typically depends on maximizing the number of backers. Stretch goals are supposed to give backers an incentive to market the campaign and ensure it will be funded



It's likely our experience of crowdfunding is different, and paints are certainly something I've not backed on Kickstarter before, but certainly it's much more cynical than that on most board game Kickstarters. All the stuff Awaken Realms do for example generally sees a campaign with stretch goals that amount to an entire extra box of content at least the size of the base game, if not larger in "stretch goals". They are there to make you think you're getting much better value for money than you are, because you're getting all this "free" stuff which has actually been accounted for in the original price.
I've no doubt that other campaigns certainly use stretch goals in the way you're describing but it's the only way. The fact that the Sir Coats mini formed part of the pre-campaign hype suggests that it was at least planned in part all along. Though we may well now be at the point of stretch goals that they're making up as they go along!


Certainly. Some people back campaigns based on stretch goals, not arguing with you.

But creators are the ones who primarily profit from stretch goals. They get free marketing from the chatter, it gets their projects to scale.

Help me understand your point a little better. Without the Sir Coats miniature, you would not have backed the campaign?



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 16:53:40


Post by: Polonius


I think the stretch goals really drive home that this is a pre-order of an already fully developed product.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 17:10:55


Post by: Azreal13


a_typical_hero wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Duncan's Kickstarter is almost at 1 million $

So much for the salty "has been" comment

Dude, I have absolutely no horse in this topic, just from an outside viewer: The comments you keep referencing back at in a "see, I WAS RIGHT NOT YOU" kind of way were ok. Nothing salty, hateful or trollish about them. You have a needlessly aggressive way of posting that makes reading your input unlikable. Your reaction to the initial comments seemed like somebody offended you personally.


Seconded. Any salt from that initial post (and I agree there was feth all salt in it) has been utterly obliterated by the spectacular lack of class in the subsequent responses.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 17:18:05


Post by: winnertakesall


 Polonius wrote:
I think the stretch goals really drive home that this is a pre-order of an already fully developed product.


This is pretty much the standard for Kickstarter now in this industry; the product is developed but the person running the campaign doesn't the initial startup funds to actually put it into proper production


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/09 17:27:40


Post by: Ghaz


An interesting post on the products' future availability and price in the Comments section:

James wrote:I have a few questions:

Will these paints be available to purchase individually after the Kickstarter?

What will be the price?

Will they be available to be delivered directly to my home address?

Which paint was being used on the Necron mini at around 2:40 in the intro video?

Trans Atlantis Games wrote:Hi James

To answer your questions:

1. We are working with retailers worldwide to distribute Two Thin Coats Paints along with a webstore

2. $4 per bottle (TBC)

3. Yes!

4. Duncan used Spartan Bronze as his shadow along with Battle Mud Wash.

-TAG Team

So the price should be $4 for a 15ml bottle (versus GW's $4.55 for 12ml) and will be available online if you have no local retailers for the Two Thin Coats paint line.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/10 08:31:06


Post by: GoldenHorde


a_typical_hero wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Duncan's Kickstarter is almost at 1 million $

So much for the salty "has been" comment

Dude, I have absolutely no horse in this topic, just from an outside viewer: The comments you keep referencing back at in a "see, I WAS RIGHT NOT YOU" kind of way were ok. Nothing salty, hateful or trollish about them. You have a needlessly aggressive way of posting that makes reading your input unlikable. Your reaction to the initial comments seemed like somebody offended you personally.


Yes, sure...... you're entitled to believe that ad hominem attacks, crying about people's postcounts (because they can't structure a coherent and sensible comment otherwise) and calling people "has-been" is not salty or hateful.

Why should I try to pander to your off kilter moral compass ?

I don't really care and I find it really funny about JUST how wrong these guys were.

Just take a look at the current discourse; people whinging about the stretch goals.. so much salt complaining about gratis inclusions. Same world we live in where people scavenge through piles of trash to survive.

Sorry, (not sorry) I'm positive about this whole endeavour and refuse to be shouted down by the negativity crowd. You want to get sucked into that black hole....go for it. Not for me


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/10 08:59:14


Post by: deano2099


 techsoldaten wrote:


Help me understand your point a little better. Without the Sir Coats miniature, you would not have backed the campaign?



I won't make a decision on whether to back the project until the final day of the project. I have pledged already, as if I do decide to back I want the cheaper early bird price, but on the final day of the project, I'll have a look at the final value proposition and decide if it's worth it or not at that point, and whether to keep or drop my pledge, based on the final list of stuff we'll be getting. That's now the optimal strategy for being a Kickstarter customer! This one is definite borderline for me and the future bonuses are still unknown.

There's been projects before where the value has been there from day one for me, and the stretch goals have been a "bonus" - but that's because the initial KS was just really great value. but I find that increasingly rare these days. If the all-in pledge for this had no stretch goals but a 50% discount I'd probably be in also. But a smaller discount plus stretch goals I don't have much interest in (I'd trade them all in for free shipping) mean it's borderline.

And this isn't me complaining or anything. There's no duty for a KS creator to appeal to me, I'm not going to call Duncan evil for not doing it how I want to or anything - this is purely my mindset as an individual - I'm sure there are others that feel the same, some have posted in this thread, but I've no idea how many of us there are. But unless you actually make that point to the creator they won't even know you exist.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 10:42:58


Post by: deano2099


Campaign ending in three days - not only has it started to level off but it's actually fallen a bit in the past few days, fair few nervous backers in the comments.

I dropped out myself, partly as the value isn't quite there for me, and partly because I've just not seen enough of paints - no third party reviews, just one video of Duncan painting something with them, nothing that really sells me on these being any better than any other paint range - which I can get for a similar price, without the wait.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 19:12:20


Post by: Ghaz


deano2099 wrote:
Campaign ending in three days - not only has it started to level off but it's actually fallen a bit in the past few days, fair few nervous backers in the comments.

From my understanding, most Kickstarters follow an inverted bell curve with the highest activity being at the start of and the end of the campaign.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 20:11:56


Post by: Monkeysloth


I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KS at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 20:14:48


Post by: Ghaz


 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.

Our claim that these paints are mixed from the ground up, is what we felt was a pretty straightforward statement and the easiest way we could present the fact that these paints are not re-labeled paints from an existing range. We see nothing wrong with re-labeling paints for different reasons. If it's presented openly, why not? However, this is not what we have done. The Two Thin Coats range has been developed over a long period of time, with a lot of trial and error, between Duncan and Roger and the chemists. The colors and the properties have been tweaked and changed with experimenting and testing at the Academy studio, Duncan's work desk, and during in-person meetings at the chemists' laboratory. We claim the chemists to be some of the world's foremost paint chemists. This may come off as hyperbolic. We are not claiming them to have contributed to creating the Covid 19 vaccine, but for being some of the world's foremost paint formulation chemists, and we stand by that. This team has decades of experience formulating specialty products for applications worldwide: from racing automobiles, industrial applications, marine, art, aerospace and yes, miniatures paints. In fact, they have developed more paint applications than I can list.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 21:01:02


Post by: JWBS


Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.

Our claim that these paints are mixed from the ground up, is what we felt was a pretty straightforward statement and the easiest way we could present the fact that these paints are not re-labeled paints from an existing range. We see nothing wrong with re-labeling paints for different reasons. If it's presented openly, why not? However, this is not what we have done. The Two Thin Coats range has been developed over a long period of time, with a lot of trial and error, between Duncan and Roger and the chemists. The colors and the properties have been tweaked and changed with experimenting and testing at the Academy studio, Duncan's work desk, and during in-person meetings at the chemists' laboratory. We claim the chemists to be some of the world's foremost paint chemists. This may come off as hyperbolic. We are not claiming them to have contributed to creating the Covid 19 vaccine, but for being some of the world's foremost paint formulation chemists, and we stand by that. This team has decades of experience formulating specialty products for applications worldwide: from racing automobiles, industrial applications, marine, art, aerospace and yes, miniatures paints. In fact, they have developed more paint applications than I can list.


All that said, the example pieces shown in the KS painted with Duncan's paints all looked a bit crap, so this marketing text doesn't do much for me.

/Edit - I know he aims for basic level painters with his tutorials etc but you'd have thought he might have done something a bit beyond that for his range showpieces, that would have been a better marketing strategy, but apparently they didn't think so


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 21:34:15


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/28 23:41:36


Post by: hotsauceman1


JWBS wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.

Our claim that these paints are mixed from the ground up, is what we felt was a pretty straightforward statement and the easiest way we could present the fact that these paints are not re-labeled paints from an existing range. We see nothing wrong with re-labeling paints for different reasons. If it's presented openly, why not? However, this is not what we have done. The Two Thin Coats range has been developed over a long period of time, with a lot of trial and error, between Duncan and Roger and the chemists. The colors and the properties have been tweaked and changed with experimenting and testing at the Academy studio, Duncan's work desk, and during in-person meetings at the chemists' laboratory. We claim the chemists to be some of the world's foremost paint chemists. This may come off as hyperbolic. We are not claiming them to have contributed to creating the Covid 19 vaccine, but for being some of the world's foremost paint formulation chemists, and we stand by that. This team has decades of experience formulating specialty products for applications worldwide: from racing automobiles, industrial applications, marine, art, aerospace and yes, miniatures paints. In fact, they have developed more paint applications than I can list.


All that said, the example pieces shown in the KS painted with Duncan's paints all looked a bit crap, so this marketing text doesn't do much for me.

/Edit - I know he aims for basic level painters with his tutorials etc but you'd have thought he might have done something a bit beyond that for his range showpieces, that would have been a better marketing strategy, but apparently they didn't think so

Yeah they should post a bit more high end stuff to show the range of paints.
Also the paint look very satin. Hugh turn off for me


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 00:47:46


Post by: JWBS


It's the metallics that really turn me off tbh. They look so lame, even considering there isn't a dedicated shade/wash, just looks so flat and dull.

/Edit - and that Space Wolf - okay, he has painted within the lines there, good job, but where is the shade and hilight? Not exactly inspiring, but for 2x the price of Citadel, 3x the price of Valejo, people are going for this? Okay, I don't get it.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 03:53:18


Post by: Monkeysloth


Maybe it's just to show what the paints will look like dry on a model? There is value in that to see how they cover and the like.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 04:02:59


Post by: insaniak


JWBS wrote:

/Edit - I know he aims for basic level painters with his tutorials etc but you'd have thought he might have done something a bit beyond that for his range showpieces, that would have been a better marketing strategy, but apparently they didn't think so

I don't think that showing Golden Demon level paintjobs is really necessary for showing examples of paint in action. It's good for 'wow' factor, but kind of meaningless for the campaign. After all, someone with the skill to paint at that level can get good results from any paints... so a high-level paintjob is more of an indicator of the painter's skill than the quality of the paint.

What these example pics show is consistent colour coverage and smooth coats. And that's what's relevant to the vast majority of miniature painters.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 04:26:46


Post by: JWBS


 insaniak wrote:
JWBS wrote:

/Edit - I know he aims for basic level painters with his tutorials etc but you'd have thought he might have done something a bit beyond that for his range showpieces, that would have been a better marketing strategy, but apparently they didn't think so

I don't think that showing Golden Demon level paintjobs is really necessary for showing examples of paint in action. It's good for 'wow' factor, but kind of meaningless for the campaign. After all, someone with the skill to paint at that level can get good results from any paints... so a high-level paintjob is more of an indicator of the painter's skill than the quality of the paint.

What these example pics show is consistent colour coverage and smooth coats. And that's what's relevant to the vast majority of miniature painters.


Hard disagree. From the moment we've opened our first White Dwarf, literally every single one of us has seen those glorious paintjobs and aspired to have an army of little plastic men looking just as shiny as beautiful as what we see on the printed page (or the IG profile these days). Without that, they're just tonka toys or GI joes. It's the paint that sells it. The paint elevates it above cheap plastic toys. Sure, some of us might reign in our expectations over time, but as far as the shop window presentation goes, it should be Ferrari, not Nissan. Needless to say I'm perplexed. These paints look basic, and they're priced at a premium. Hype machine in action I suppose (w/o any of the hype, just some basic ass examples).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 05:30:57


Post by: insaniak


JWBS wrote:
These paints look basic,...

What does this mean?



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 06:30:34


Post by: schoon


Having marketing photos that include a range of painting skill levels is very important, IMO.

The top-shelf level painting shows what talented individuals can do with the medium, and that they choose it over other options.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 07:44:00


Post by: NAVARRO


They look like something army painter would display has examples.

Duncan is more about simple tabletop quality paint jobs and those are just that.
Would be nice to also cater to a different audience to be honest.
The examples provided don't inspire me to go out of my way.

I would like to add that better than painted minis (and not that well photographed since theres shadows everywhere) would be something like GW did for the contrast paints.
Prime a base white and then apply 1 coat of paint and add to a chart.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 08:01:23


Post by: Vertrucio


I'd also like to see these paints used in something more of a high end paint job. Because honestly, most of us and I have a collection of other paints like Vallejo, I'd like to see this set do something those others don't.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 09:44:55


Post by: deano2099


 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.


Agreed. It's become clear it's not *his* paint line, it's this other companies paint line and he's working on it. Which as you say, is fine. But that's part of what put me off as well. The money isn't going to Duncan to kickstart a new paint line that he's always wanted to do, providing us the with the sort of paints he's always wanted to paint with. It's going to a company that wants to compete in the Citadel/Vallejo/Army Painter space and this is their way in.

You can tell from the lack of engagement from Duncan in the campaign. If this was his own personal project there's no way he'd be "too busy" to engage in the comments or produce more content. Not if it was his own business and people were potentially giving him a million quid.

And that's fine, I'm sure the paints will be good, I imagine some of them might even be the best option in certain painting circumstances, some of the colours might be the best out there. But I don't think they'll be anything special. Indeed, the thing lacking from the campaign entirely has been telling us why these are special. Methinks because they're not.

(I think that maybe ties in with my earlier complaints about getting minis, not paint-related stuff as stretch goals - the campaign should be about the paints, the updates should be about "why this yellow has better coverage than any other yellow - it's so good we'll give you an extra pot if we reach half a million" not "look at this really cool miniature you'll get for free!")


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 14:41:50


Post by: Ghaz


 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.

I see you conveniently cut the part that proves that you don't know what you're talking about...


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 15:29:21


Post by: JWBS


 insaniak wrote:
JWBS wrote:
These paints look basic,...

What does this mean?


I meant it as generic disparagement. The paintjobs look dull and visually unappealing. They cost $4 each though, this equals £3, I pay £2 for valejo, which have more paint, and £2 for Citadel too (but less paint). Main criticism though is the colours are ugly.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 17:41:28


Post by: hotsauceman1


I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 18:10:07


Post by: techsoldaten


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.


Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 18:15:37


Post by: hotsauceman1


Ok but why not show it? Why are there not people out there with advance sets painting with them?
Yes you can do any of those, but some paint brands excel at other(EG, Scale75 is great at layering and glazing.)
why are they not showing what can be done with these paints.
Showing basic paint jobs is like saying "Well our car can get up to 75mph" well I want to know the supper limit of it.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 19:13:42


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.

I see you conveniently cut the part that proves that you don't know what you're talking about...


The quote that basically said he talked a few times to the people actually designing the paints? I'm not sure how that disproves my point. Also I'm not sure why this upsets you so much. He's not an owner/partner with Transatlantic Games, as far as anyone knows, so this is what's to be expected. Another company reached out and wanted to pay him for his time and brand for a paint line. I'd do it if I were him. It's hard to set up you own paint company and provide a full line and get it into distribution. Why take that risk yourself when someone else will do it and pay you for your involvement? It's clearly the smart decision on Duncan's end. The only person I can think of that did successfully created their own line, using their name as a selling point, was Mig Jimenez.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
deano2099 wrote:


And that's fine, I'm sure the paints will be good, I imagine some of them might even be the best option in certain painting circumstances, some of the colours might be the best out there. But I don't think they'll be anything special. Indeed, the thing lacking from the campaign entirely has been telling us why these are special. Methinks because they're not.



I think people are overthinking what paint is capable of if you're expecting something brand new that no one has ever seen before. Even contrast paints weren't something new there were lots of painters in our hobby that mixed their own for years before GW released their set. I even have a paint guide some a miniature line showing how to make them. We're such a small sub section of the model figure hobby that we tend to get things marketed to us years after others have adopted something new.

The reason for these is the same that Wizkids is getting into to paints. The market is growing due to the popularity of D&D at the moment and Duncan's brand of simple, clean paint jobs are going to appeal to a lot of RPG people combine that with Duncan's popularity with people that are fine with tabletop quality paint jobs for the armies and you have a pretty starting point--so this is a very good time to get into the market.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 20:09:32


Post by: Mario


techsoldaten wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.
Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.
I agree with hotsauceman1. Wouldn't it be nice if they would explain some of that on their own? Show examples of how it works with those paints. Duncan has used these paints, after all, and he paints miniatures for a living. They are trying to convince us of the quality of those paints. It shouldn't be your job to advertise them. Have they shown videos of Duncan painting the miniatures that were shown with those paints? I haven't paid the campaign much attention so I don't know but if they have then those videos would probably be much more interesting and informative than bragging about working with top paint chemists. Show, don't tell and all that.

That being said, getting finished paint jobs of GD level miniatures would be close to pointless as these are often achieved with more persnickety techniques (often way more layers of very thin paint than on the average army miniature). For a line of paints that based around the idea of being solid for quick and clean army paint jobs I'd want examples/explanations around that topic, not some GD paint jobs where the painter works with different media and thinners.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 20:09:35


Post by: Polonius


The reason I didn't back these is simple: I didn't see anything unique or special about these paints to allow them to compete at that price point and preorder status. I'm not saying I'll never buy some, or that they're bad, I just don't see why I would pay up front, with no real discount, for paints when I have plenty.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/29 22:36:10


Post by: deano2099


 techsoldaten wrote:

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.


But Duncan has used them, they have his name on, and he literally makes painting tutorial videos on the internet for a living. And I know Duncan's usual style is relatively basic but it's not like he doesn't know what glazing is or how to mix a wash. They're in the perfect position to be able to demonstrate this stuff but aren't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
[
deano2099 wrote:


And that's fine, I'm sure the paints will be good, I imagine some of them might even be the best option in certain painting circumstances, some of the colours might be the best out there. But I don't think they'll be anything special. Indeed, the thing lacking from the campaign entirely has been telling us why these are special. Methinks because they're not.



I think people are overthinking what paint is capable of if you're expecting something brand new that no one has ever seen before. Even contrast paints weren't something new there were lots of painters in our hobby that mixed their own for years before GW released their set. I even have a paint guide some a miniature line showing how to make them. We're such a small sub section of the model figure hobby that we tend to get things marketed to us years after others have adopted something new.


I'm not expecting them to be revolutionary, but y'know, every paint line has something going for it right? Citadel has arguably the best washes and the coverage on their base paints is really good. Schmincke make the only white I can be bothered with. Other manufacturers do metallics or fluorescents better. Others have a better airbrush range, and so on. But I guess picking one thing and saying "this is what we're the best at" is counter-productive to selling people entire sets of the paint line.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/30 01:14:53


Post by: hotsauceman1


I just want to know if they are satin or Matte paints.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/09/30 02:03:54


Post by: Polonius


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I just want to know if they are satin or Matte paints.


That’s a fair question, as is the opacity, how much they can be thinned, or what the medium is like.

Here’s a link to Warcolours, a line of paints I like in many ways, and they detail all of that and more for each range and color: https://www.warcolours.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/10/05 22:03:14


Post by: techsoldaten


Mario wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.
Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.
I agree with hotsauceman1. Wouldn't it be nice if they would explain some of that on their own? Show examples of how it works with those paints. Duncan has used these paints, after all, and he paints miniatures for a living. They are trying to convince us of the quality of those paints. It shouldn't be your job to advertise them. Have they shown videos of Duncan painting the miniatures that were shown with those paints? I haven't paid the campaign much attention so I don't know but if they have then those videos would probably be much more interesting and informative than bragging about working with top paint chemists. Show, don't tell and all that.

That being said, getting finished paint jobs of GD level miniatures would be close to pointless as these are often achieved with more persnickety techniques (often way more layers of very thin paint than on the average army miniature). For a line of paints that based around the idea of being solid for quick and clean army paint jobs I'd want examples/explanations around that topic, not some GD paint jobs where the painter works with different media and thinners.

Quick and easy solutions for achieving GD quality paint jobs seems like a big ask.

I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, just useful.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/10/06 00:01:54


Post by: streetsamurai


Surprised it managed to get that much money. As other said, there doesn't seems to be anything special with these.paints, and I don't see the point of buying them and in advance when the price is not that good.

Good for them though, and wish them luck and success


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/10/06 02:25:21


Post by: hotsauceman1


 techsoldaten wrote:
Mario wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.
Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.
I agree with hotsauceman1. Wouldn't it be nice if they would explain some of that on their own? Show examples of how it works with those paints. Duncan has used these paints, after all, and he paints miniatures for a living. They are trying to convince us of the quality of those paints. It shouldn't be your job to advertise them. Have they shown videos of Duncan painting the miniatures that were shown with those paints? I haven't paid the campaign much attention so I don't know but if they have then those videos would probably be much more interesting and informative than bragging about working with top paint chemists. Show, don't tell and all that.

That being said, getting finished paint jobs of GD level miniatures would be close to pointless as these are often achieved with more persnickety techniques (often way more layers of very thin paint than on the average army miniature). For a line of paints that based around the idea of being solid for quick and clean army paint jobs I'd want examples/explanations around that topic, not some GD paint jobs where the painter works with different media and thinners.

Quick and easy solutions for achieving GD quality paint jobs seems like a big ask.

I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, just useful.


There is no quick and easy way to GD. it requires uunderstanding of light, texture, color theory and a host of other stuff.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2021/10/06 18:12:25


Post by: Mario


techsoldaten wrote:Quick and easy solutions for achieving GD quality paint jobs seems like a big ask.

I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, just useful.
That's why I wrote that it would be "close to pointless" ("close to" as you get a fancy miniature to look at, after all). Another comment said something about comparing those example miniatures to fancy GW paint jobs. It would only show that one can paint GD quality with those paints (which you can do with nearly any paints anyways) but that's not really a useful metric when you are selling a paint line as fitting Duncan's paint style which is based more around a clean and relatively fast result. A few videos showing how useful those paints can be when applied to some of the techniques Duncan uses, and showing how he does it, could probably be informative instead of just showing some photos of the finished miniatures.

You can spend tens of hours on a miniature with nearly any paints if you want a GD quality paint job. You can do that to show off miniatures from a miniature line but it says little about the miniature paints besides that they can be used on miniatures which is a bit tautological.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/03/15 14:51:09


Post by: Ghaz


BREAKING NEWS!!! We are pleased to announce that Asmodee North America has acquired exclusive North American (USA & Canada) distribution rights for our paint line!

https://www.asmodeena.com/en/news/2022/3/15/Two-Thin-Coats/

Asmodee is one of the biggest games and hobby distributors in the entire world, everything from Railroad Tycoon, Catan to Star Wars Legion and A Song of Ice & Fire among many, many more. We are looking forward to being partners with them and Trans Atlantis Games and are very excited to see what the future holds. But most importantly, we can't wait for you all to get your hands on the Two Thin Coats Paints line.

As for the Kickstarter pledges, Trans Atlantis Games is in the latter stages of casting, filling, and packing the pledges right now so keep an eye out for notifications.

Cheers
Dunc & Rog


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/03/22 13:42:36


Post by: deano2099


First independent review I've seen:




In short: they're decent paints, nothing really standing out.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/03/22 13:50:28


Post by: oni


I sure hope they find more distributors. Asmodee sucks! Slow order processing, slow to ship, slow to respond to issues, abysmal customer support. I fear for DRPA that there is going to be a lot of unhappy customers solely because of Asmodee.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/03/22 18:59:43


Post by: Ghaz


Review by Goobertown Hobbies:




Review by eBay Miniature Rescues:




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/03/23 09:07:18


Post by: JWBS


Okay so I'm getting the impression that they're alright, but not the finished article with several flaws, which begs the question of why I'd buy them over any of the many ranges that are available and also fully satisfactory. This question gets an exclamation mark added when I consider that these seem to be about the most expensive paints on the market, with a 50% markup (despite being kickstarter) over the other notable competitors. iirc these were the questions that were asked when this thread was first active and I don't think they've been answered in a positive way if at all.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/03/23 15:32:09


Post by: Polonius


I figure there are two reasons to buy them. In terms of actual merit, the triad system is great for painters who struggle with color selection (or are color blind) and don't have access to Reaper paints.

The more cynical reason is that Asmodee is going to give them a big push, and make them available in places no other paints are.

I'm certainly not shy about trying new paint ranges, but I haven't seen anything that makes me want to try them.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/09/13 20:27:08


Post by: winnertakesall


Mine have arrived, and have to say the metallics are very good and personally some of the best I've used. Impressed so far but only initial impressions


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/10/05 21:57:55


Post by: Ian Sturrock


I've been painting with my set for a few weeks and have found they do the job nicely. They've been particularly handy to give to my two stepkids who really benefited from the triad system, but I've found that to be useful too, particularly the black triad. The washes also include some options I don't easily find elsewhere without mixing my own. Overall I'm very happy with them for the price (KS price that is).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/10/05 21:59:44


Post by: ListenToMeWarriors


Wash wise is the black wash a suitable replacement for old Nuln Oil?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/10/06 12:29:25


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Hmm, I've not tried the black yet because I bought a bunch of old Nuln Oil bottles via the Hachette sale. I'll try to remember to try it out though.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/10/12 15:55:16


Post by: Ian Sturrock


ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Wash wise is the black wash a suitable replacement for old Nuln Oil?


OK, I tried painting up a converted toy, silver Molotow spray all over first and then wash one half with Nuln Oil and the other with the black from Two Thin Coats.

After two coats I couldn't tell any significant difference between the two sides, though I'd say that with the 1st coat it looked like the Two Thin Coats brand was very slightly thinner?

Which, ya know. On brand at least. You might need slightly more of it.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/10/12 18:50:33


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Good to know, I've been looking for a replacement since my nuln oil is almost out.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/19 15:13:50


Post by: stahly


Sorry for the threadomancy, but I finally got my hands on my set of Two Thin Coats, and made this in-depth video review:




Really surprised with how these turned out.

I also made a hand-painted & professionally photographed comparison sheet of all 60 Two Thin Coats paints and their closest Citadel counterparts, check it out here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/11/review-all-60-two-thin-coats-paints-by-duncan-rhodes/


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/19 17:25:59


Post by: NH Gunsmith


 stahly wrote:
Sorry for the threadomancy, but I finally got my hands on my set of Two Thin Coats, and made this in-depth video review:




Really surprised with how these turned out.

I also made a hand-painted & professionally photographed comparison sheet of all 60 Two Thin Coats paints and their closest Citadel counterparts, check it out here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/11/review-all-60-two-thin-coats-paints-by-duncan-rhodes/


Greatly appreciated your review, and your attempt to be as non-biased as well. Really great comparison, and I can tell you now, if my local store starts carrying these paints I will likely switch over for a majority of the main colors I use.

The metallics triads, mainly the golds, look amazing. And man... those washes, look like great.

Thank you again for the review, really appreciate the effort you put in for the comparison.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/22 01:25:20


Post by: Ghaz


Ninjon has a review of Duncan's Two Thin Coats paints as well:




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/23 21:34:45


Post by: Azazelx


Ninjon's review was pretty good overall, but a bit of a spanker move taking a gutless unnamed shot at Stahly for giving us swatches. Like swatches aren't useful.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/24 00:08:22


Post by: deano2099


JWBS wrote:
Okay so I'm getting the impression that they're alright, but not the finished article with several flaws, which begs the question of why I'd buy them over any of the many ranges that are available and also fully satisfactory. This question gets an exclamation mark added when I consider that these seem to be about the most expensive paints on the market, with a 50% markup (despite being kickstarter) over the other notable competitors. iirc these were the questions that were asked when this thread was first active and I don't think they've been answered in a positive way if at all.

I guess the reason is if you sub to Duncans channel and want to follow his tutorials with the exact colours. Last video I watched he was still using other paints, I'll probably unsubscribe when he moves over.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/24 00:22:00


Post by: Ghaz


deano2099 wrote:
JWBS wrote:
Okay so I'm getting the impression that they're alright, but not the finished article with several flaws, which begs the question of why I'd buy them over any of the many ranges that are available and also fully satisfactory. This question gets an exclamation mark added when I consider that these seem to be about the most expensive paints on the market, with a 50% markup (despite being kickstarter) over the other notable competitors. iirc these were the questions that were asked when this thread was first active and I don't think they've been answered in a positive way if at all.

I guess the reason is if you sub to Duncans channel and want to follow his tutorials with the exact colours. Last video I watched he was still using other paints, I'll probably unsubscribe when he moves over.

Why? Check the Ninjon video starting at the 2:30 mark where it's shown there's a conversion chart for Two Thin Coats to Citadel and Army Painter paints (and it's not like you've been able to do a match of his tutorials with the exact colors as he's been using some Two Thin Coats paints for a while now).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/24 08:34:30


Post by: NAVARRO


Price is key here. A new range needs to be attractive as impulse buy since we already have full collections of paints. Not saying it should be cheap just saying it should not be the most expensive on the market.

Still looking at the colours available and still find the pallets choice very limited or similar to other cheaper ranges so yeah nothing new there to get me out of my way.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/25 02:28:47


Post by: Commitz


I see they're in stock in a couple of places and currently more expensive than GW per unit volume which is quite a bold move...



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/25 11:04:32


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 Commitz wrote:
I see they're in stock in a couple of places and currently more expensive than GW per unit volume which is quite a bold move...



I did ask this on the KS comments section, and got a lengthy reply.

Gimgamgoo on KS wrote:
All received a few weeks ago in the UK. Well packaged.

My question is the retail price for them? Wayland in the UK have them listed as rrp £3.95. Is that correct? That's a whole lot pricier than GW's already overpriced £2.75. Granted there's a couple of ml more, but that's a huge price tag. Is this a confirmed rrp?


Trans Atlantis Games on KS wrote:
Regarding our prices as compared to competitors, the short answer is that we hadn't set out to be a bargain paint.

The goal was to have Duncan formulate the best range of premium paints he could, that would include a range colors that he felt would be best suited for everyone from beginners to more experienced painters. We feel that the Two Thin Coats paints accomplished this goal, due to the quality of the ingredients used, and how they are formulated (ie-heavier doses of certain components), so that they will be considered one of, if not the best range available, top to bottom, on the market. Especially when the range expands. As mentioned on quite a few comments, our paints have a lot of body (thicker), and can be used as-is straight from the bottle, or can be thinned down to your desired consistency. When you're painting your models and the consistency of your paint is not where you want it, with Two Thin Coats you'll be able to start with a nice thick paint and thin it down to get your desired result. Other paints that start out thinner, which you would prefer to be thicker, then what...

The coverage of Two Thin Coats is fantastic, applies easily, and we believe you will not find a smoother finish. While we don't believe any paint range is a one-size-fits-all, we do believe Two Thin Coats will find its home in the upper echelon of miniatures paints.

As far as our pricing is concerned, yes, we have recommended a retail price of £3.95. It is a guideline that we recommend, but traders can price things as they wish. After discount and VAT we realize slightly less than half of the RRP.

Comparing our RRP to Citadel paints RRP is a tall order. While Citadel paints are a high quality paint range also, as he market leader, they get their price "advantage" in many ways. Their purchasing power due to their volume is out of our league. They produce in a month more than we've produced this past year. They sell much of their paint at the full RRP in their stores and on their online store. We also offer a higher trade discount than they do, meaning that on average we'll receive a lot less of the revenue generated on a bottle of paint than they do. Besides the actual paint itself, which we are very confident to put up against theirs, our other components are more plentiful and cost more. Our dropper bottle has four components, besides the paint. Citadel has a bottle and a cap. We have a bottle, a nozzle a cap and an agitator. These extra components create more production assembly time as well. As far as the overall price of the paints are concerned, it's not much different. We have cost-averaged our range, meaning every bottle of our 15ml paint, regardless of what it is; shadow, wash, metallic, etc. all have the same RRP of £3.95. You mention that Citadel's RRP of their 12ml bottles is £2.75. This means our paints have an average price of .263 per ml, and Citadel has an average price of .229 per ml. Even with their massive volume advantage and the extra costs associated with Two Thin Coats, the price difference is less than 4 pence per ml. And that's only at first glance. As they do not cost-average. Some of their metallic paints have a price per ml of .308, while their shades and some other paints can cost .263 per ml, the same as Two Thin Coats. I haven't priced out their entire range, as it's hundreds of different paints and styles, but overall I'd guess we are very close on the average price per ml across the board. To be clear, I am not trying to compare our paint range to Citadel's, but only trying to explain the price differences as I see them. What every individual prefers is personal to their own style of painting, how they want their paints to work, the colors offered, etc. We also have no plans for a price increase.

Overall, Two Thin Coats has to stand on its own, regardless of our competitors. It'd be easy to create the cheapest paints on the market. What wasn't easy was creating a premium high-quality range, while maintaining a reasonable price. We feel we've done that, and as more reviews pop up on YouTube and other social media platforms, it seems they agree.

Lastly, by supporting this initial Kickstarter campaign and any we may do in the future, the Two Thin Coats paints are a great deal as compared to Citadel paints; a lower price per bottle AND more paint per bottle, not to mention any stretch goals included!

I'm glad that you liked how they arrived to you, and sorry for this long-winded response. I wanted to make my response informative, without going overboard. I'm not sure if I accomplished that goal. Thanks for your feedback and support!-Bob


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/25 13:39:44


Post by: Polonius


Intersting. Paints are one of the more provincial aspects of the hobby, with some of the smaller brands a lot easier to order in the home contry. For example, I've seen Reaper paints stocked in stores (not so much lately, but in the past) while from what I've heard even ordering them in the EU is tough. Likewise, Coat d'arms seems to have stockists in the UK, while I've never heard of anybody stateside using them.

The sort of obvious comparison here (strong, rich, matte colors, small-ish range, dropper bottles) is Pro-acryl, which I've using and LOVING lately. OTOH, since I live ithe US, I can just get pro-acryl easily, and I know I like it.

If I could pick up a few colors at my local, and try them, I would, but I"m not gonna pay for shipping on the off chance Duncan has finally cracked the code on an Ultra marines blue I love.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2013/05/26 19:24:28


Post by: Commitz


I wouldn't mine paying the premium for the metallics at least as they seem to be top notch in most reviews, and they're usually a pain to get right. Aside from that I already have what I need in Vallejo or any other set of paints, and if I was really going in to more specialised paints I'd probably go for Kimera for the mixing ability.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/25 15:33:28


Post by: Cruentus


 Polonius wrote:
Intersting. Paints are one of the more provincial aspects of the hobby, with some of the smaller brands a lot easier to order in the home contry. For example, I've seen Reaper paints stocked in stores (not so much lately, but in the past) while from what I've heard even ordering them in the EU is tough. Likewise, Coat d'arms seems to have stockists in the UK, while I've never heard of anybody stateside using them.

The sort of obvious comparison here (strong, rich, matte colors, small-ish range, dropper bottles) is Pro-acryl, which I've using and LOVING lately. OTOH, since I live ithe US, I can just get pro-acryl easily, and I know I like it.

If I could pick up a few colors at my local, and try them, I would, but I"m not gonna pay for shipping on the off chance Duncan has finally cracked the code on an Ultra marines blue I love.


I've started using Reaper, and am always tracking down Coat D'Arms here in the States when my old ones, or my old Citadel hex pots start to run out. Its certainly not easy.

Paints are an area where I'm starting to get price inelastic, and when they say stuff is 3.75gbp, that's great for the UK, but you never know what that will translate into here in the States (sometimes VAT isn't removed, sometimes they're priced on an arbitrary and higher exchange rate, shipping, etc.) which makes getting them "cheaper" or around the same price as GW, Army Painter, Reaper, P3, Scale Color, CDA, Polly S, Vallejo, and so on (all paints I have in my drawer) tricky.

Having watched a lot of Duncan's videos, they certainly look like they work like paints. But I'm also not going for high end paint jobs at this point. After 30 years playing historicals/GW/Battletech, I'm all about quick and easy tabletop (i.e. Contrast is my go to). More choice is great, but like most things wargaming, if I lived in the UK, it might be easier and cheaper


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/25 15:37:36


Post by: Ghaz


 Polonius wrote:
Likewise, Coat d'arms seems to have stockists in the UK, while I've never heard of anybody stateside using them.

By 'using them' I'm assuming you means 'selling them', then Coat d'Arms paints are available from Scale Creep Miniatures in Evanston IL.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2022/11/25 15:53:33


Post by: Polonius


 Ghaz wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
Likewise, Coat d'arms seems to have stockists in the UK, while I've never heard of anybody stateside using them.

By 'using them' I'm assuming you means 'selling them', then Coat d'Arms paints are available from Scale Creep Miniatures in Evanston IL.


Oh cool. I'm not surprised that somebody sells it, it's just not something I've ever run into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Cruentus wrote:
Paints are an area where I'm starting to get price inelastic, and when they say stuff is 3.75gbp, that's great for the UK, but you never know what that will translate into here in the States (sometimes VAT isn't removed, sometimes they're priced on an arbitrary and higher exchange rate, shipping, etc.) which makes getting them "cheaper" or around the same price as GW, Army Painter, Reaper, P3, Scale Color, CDA, Polly S, Vallejo, and so on (all paints I have in my drawer) tricky.


If I'm going to spend a few hours painting a hundred dollar kit, I'm not afraid of spending twenty more bucks on paints that do what I need, and will almost certainly outlast this project. I agree, that price isn't as big of a barrier. Some of my favorite paints are among the cheapest (warcolors) while others are among the most expense (GW).

Having watched a lot of Duncan's videos, they certainly look like they work like paints. But I'm also not going for high end paint jobs at this point. After 30 years playing historicals/GW/Battletech, I'm all about quick and easy tabletop (i.e. Contrast is my go to). More choice is great, but like most things wargaming, if I lived in the UK, it might be easier and cheaper


Some high end paints are meant for high end painters: things like scale 75, inks, glazes, etc. are all designed for more complex techniques. However... there are some pricier paints out there that are excellent for base/wash/dry brush painters as well. And obviously contrasts aren't exactly cheap.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/01/18 12:41:28


Post by: DaveC


60 more paints coming to KS 24th January. Some nice flesh tones in there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transatlantisgames/two-thin-coats-wave-2




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/01/18 13:31:32


Post by: stahly


 DaveC wrote:
60 more paints coming to KS 24th January. Some nice flesh tones in there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transatlantisgames/two-thin-coats-wave-2




Oh, can't wait!

I'm really enjoying my Two Thin Coats paints. I recently tested & reviewed quite a few paint ranges, including the new formula Vallejo Game Color (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yRv80Ceaj8). While these are also pretty nice (at least the new Game Color acrylics), for my own painting, I tend to go to Duncan's paints most of the times. The quality of these paints is just very high with no duds at all. A lot of colours are quite similar to the Citadel range, which is a plus for me, as I really love most of the colour choices in the Citadel range (but am not too fond about the paint pots and often average opacity). It makes transitioning from Citadel to Two Thin Coats really easy, and now with 60 more paints, I guess I can retire even more Citadel paints.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/01/24 19:00:32


Post by: Ghaz


 DaveC wrote:
60 more paints coming to KS 24th January. Some nice flesh tones in there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transatlantisgames/two-thin-coats-wave-2

Spoiler:


And the official announcement...




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/01/24 20:07:56


Post by: RazorEdge


I hope for fitting Basecoat Sprays in the future.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/01/30 06:41:26


Post by: JWBS


I'm going to withdraw my scepticism on these. Having seen them in action they look decent, and with an expanded range they're a lot more interesting. Still not enthused by the price but I'm going to try some of them.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/01/31 10:58:47


Post by: winnertakesall


Have to say, I've heard nothing but glowing reviews for these. I ended up pleding for one of the lower tiers in the previous KS out of curiosity after talking to Duncan about them at an event and I have to say the metallics remain the absolute best metallics I have ever used. At the end of the day, it's just paint and it's nothing groundbreaking but it's the best paint I've used so far.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/09 23:43:56


Post by: zombie_sky_diver


Does anyone know the turn around time for product delivery on the kickstarter once it closes out?
I'm tempted to back it but I don't want to wait 9+ month to a year for product turnaround


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/11 04:19:06


Post by: Polonius


 winnertakesall wrote:
Have to say, I've heard nothing but glowing reviews for these. I ended up pleding for one of the lower tiers in the previous KS out of curiosity after talking to Duncan about them at an event and I have to say the metallics remain the absolute best metallics I have ever used. At the end of the day, it's just paint and it's nothing groundbreaking but it's the best paint I've used so far.


I’ve yet to see anything about these that suggests they do anything new or different. They seem high quality and well made… just inessential.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/11 22:33:45


Post by: Azazelx


Yeah, they seem completely pretty good.

Given that they're more expensive than every other brand, and I already have a good selection of Citadel/Vallejo/AK/Reaper/Pro Acryl/P3/CDA/etc, I don't have any good reason to pick them up.

They're kinda in Scale75 territory for me. - If I had a FLGS these days and that FLGS also had them on a rack, I'd undoubtedly pick up a couple and play with them, but I don't feel compelled to especially order them or a set.

For someone starting out or upgrading from Craft Paint or Army Painter Warpaints, they'd be great (as would AK, Vallejo, Reaper, Citadel, et al.

Also for metallics, give Vallejo Model Air and Vallejo Metal Colour a try!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/12 12:12:35


Post by: Wayniac


Personally I find Duncan completely obnoxious and grossly overrated l, little more than a meme, but I have heard good things about the paint range.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/13 21:45:08


Post by: Crispy78


I'm kind of curious where you get obnoxious from. He's so calm and mild-mannered in his videos!


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/13 22:08:54


Post by: Alpharius


It does feel a bit like a 'Hot Take' and out of nowhere, but, as he says, it's his personal opinion.

Always looking for good paints to try - will eventually get around to giving these a go as well...


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/14 22:01:13


Post by: SpaceMcQuirk


I have a feeling we'll be using a whole load of Death Doom Black and Demon red in the future, might have to mix a little flame yellow with etheral green to get the green Dungling skin tone I desire but that's just a personal old skool choice.

Great line, great success story and a brilliant range of paints that I'm looking very much forward to using on a BattleBikez soon.

Much respect to the entire team.

Space.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/14 22:51:46


Post by: techsoldaten


 Polonius wrote:
I’ve yet to see anything about these that suggests they do anything new or different. They seem high quality and well made… just inessential.


I bought the first wave and will back the second.

Agree with the idea they are inessential. Would say the same about Vallejo, they're merely delightfully nice to have.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/15 05:58:41


Post by: Azazelx


Yeah, the feedback and reviews I've seen pretty much say that they're good paints.

If you don't have any good paints, you should probably get some - whether they're AK, Vallejo, TTC, Reaper or Citadel.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/15 19:03:00


Post by: Polonius


 techsoldaten wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
I’ve yet to see anything about these that suggests they do anything new or different. They seem high quality and well made… just inessential.


I bought the first wave and will back the second.

Agree with the idea they are inessential. Would say the same about Vallejo, they're merely delightfully nice to have.


I think that Vallejo holds the belt for widest paint range, especially if you combine the model and game color ranges. Vallejo is certainly my go to for historically specific colors, flat/earth tones in general, and replacements from the pre 2012 citadel color range (at least until they revamp the game color line).

Army Painter is cheap and has great spray support, at the cost of being very tough to keep mixed. (personally, I tried a few AP layer paints and eventually gave up on them).

Scale 75 is designed for blending.

Pro Akryl has great coverage and vibrant pigments. They also finally nailed white, which is tough.

Reaper is designed around a triad system, and also has a pretty wide range. Avaiability outside of the US is super tough though.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/17 16:09:25


Post by: Ghaz


An look at the 2nd wave of paints and a review as well.




Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/20 12:53:09


Post by: SpaceMcQuirk


I 'erez a rumourz dat deyz gonna be full of orc colours.

Well raize me a shroom brew to dat! (closest I kud find to a shroom)

Iz dat Dunky Rhodez still hidng from my challengz?

Da Ultimate Dunglingz Rainbow Belt I kan paintz a betta Battlebikez dan yuz in a shortaz timez? Tell I'm Buxxy, hez kan runz but da boyz can'tz hidez.

Evilz "Space" Makk'Knievelz


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/24 09:03:12


Post by: winnertakesall


Wayniac wrote:
Personally I find Duncan completely obnoxious and grossly overrated l, little more than a meme, but I have heard good things about the paint range.


Out of curiosity - why? He's always seemed a nice enough mild mannered bloke when I've met him/seen him in stuff.



I'm a touch disappointed that this new kickstarter was an "all or nothing" sort of jig, as I liked having a smaller taster pledge for the first one.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/25 18:03:01


Post by: SpaceMcQuirk


 NAVARRO wrote:
Do we need more paint lines?


Yes if the product improves the current lines and competes in price.
Evolution..survival of da fittest.
The three tier wheel system and the 'Eadbangin' ball bearing cover both these marks.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/25 21:45:11


Post by: Vermis


 SpaceMcQuirk wrote:

Yes if the product improves the current lines and competes in price.


Uh... isn't it one of the most expensive lines out there?

I did what I suspect you did and read this topic from the start. Aside from the entertainment provided by dakka members getting offended multiple times over absolutely nothing (is that guy GoldenHorde still around? He's a hoot.) the impression I get is this is youtuber merch. Not a bad product (it's a step up from t-shirts with a google account avatar on them) and maybe Duncan isn't the arch-carpetbagger here, but it still feels like what you're buying is a label with a name and a meme on it.

Even so, I was a little surprised by this thread. Most of it is discussion in anticipation of the paints, then when the first wave hit there were a couple of 'yeah they're pretty good' posts and then it died a death. The second wave with a big expansion hit, but there was way less hype for it.
Is anyone using, or even excited for these paints in significant numbers?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/27 09:52:43


Post by: winnertakesall


 Vermis wrote:
 SpaceMcQuirk wrote:

Yes if the product improves the current lines and competes in price.


Uh... isn't it one of the most expensive lines out there?

I did what I suspect you did and read this topic from the start. Aside from the entertainment provided by dakka members getting offended multiple times over absolutely nothing (is that guy GoldenHorde still around? He's a hoot.) the impression I get is this is youtuber merch. Not a bad product (it's a step up from t-shirts with a google account avatar on them) and maybe Duncan isn't the arch-carpetbagger here, but it still feels like what you're buying is a label with a name and a meme on it.

Even so, I was a little surprised by this thread. Most of it is discussion in anticipation of the paints, then when the first wave hit there were a couple of 'yeah they're pretty good' posts and then it died a death. The second wave with a big expansion hit, but there was way less hype for it.
Is anyone using, or even excited for these paints in significant numbers?


It's pretty expensive but genuinely it's cracking paint, especially the metallics. I think the main issue is that Asmodee aren't selling it in the US yet. They just raised another $800k on Kickstarter so there must have been enough people sufficiently impressed by the initial launch to drop $192 minimum pledge on paint.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/27 13:55:24


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 Vermis wrote:


Uh... isn't it one of the most expensive lines out there?

I did what I suspect you did and read this topic from the start. Aside from the entertainment provided by dakka members getting offended multiple times over absolutely nothing (is that guy GoldenHorde still around? He's a hoot.) the impression I get is this is youtuber merch. Not a bad product (it's a step up from t-shirts with a google account avatar on them) and maybe Duncan isn't the arch-carpetbagger here, but it still feels like what you're buying is a label with a name and a meme on it.

Even so, I was a little surprised by this thread. Most of it is discussion in anticipation of the paints, then when the first wave hit there were a couple of 'yeah they're pretty good' posts and then it died a death. The second wave with a big expansion hit, but there was way less hype for it.
Is anyone using, or even excited for these paints in significant numbers?

I only just started using my Wave 1 set earlier this week. I'm really impressed by most of what I've used so far. Better coverage than any other line I have at the moment. The triad system doesn't look like it will work from the bottle colours, but works really well. There's a few colours I'll still be using from GW/AP/Vallejo to finish current projects, but after that, it's Dunc's paints for me. I'm really glad of the next wave coming as it looks like it may cover a lot of the ones I've been needing too.

Oh, and I forgot to add: the bottles are the best I've used so far for keeping the paint sealed well and keeping clean.
The only negative I've found so far were the two bone coloured paints. They seemed very thick, but were fine when the medium was added to them.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/02/27 14:02:04


Post by: stahly


I reviewed the whole first wave a while ago and I was very positively surprised. I reviewed a fair share of paints and paint ranges over the last couple of years, but I think Two Thin Coats are the best range all around atm – very high opacity and smooth application, plus very solid metallics and washes:




Most colours are pretty close to their Citadel counterparts which makes transitioning easy. Can't wait for wave 2 to arrive. Along with new Vallejo Game Color acrylics (just the acrylics, rest is average), these are currently my favourite paints to use (plus a few AK 3rd Gen paints, and Vallejo Mecha Color and ProAcryl metallics).

Of course, at the end of the day it's only paint, but if you're serious about painting and want a paint that performs a bit better than Citadel & Army Painter, then I recommend them wholeheartedly.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/03/01 14:25:32


Post by: Ian Sturrock


I agree that the Two Thin Coats range is consistently excellent so far. Super easy to thin with water or medium too.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/03/01 20:43:18


Post by: Vermis


 winnertakesall wrote:
They just raised another $800k on Kickstarter so there must have been enough people sufficiently impressed by the initial launch


Ah. Well then. Talk about hiding your light under a bushel.

TBH I'm interested in the triad system, if they're easier to source on this side of the pond compared to Reaper. Otherwise I'm about as unserious about painting as you can imagine. Although that might recommend them to me too, if I can slap on an even coat with as little faff as possible.

Tell you what, if Duncan announces a bunch more washes and contrast-alikes (and doesn't feth about with the lineup just to keep up with GW's fething-about) I'm in.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/03/01 21:28:50


Post by: winnertakesall


 Vermis wrote:
 winnertakesall wrote:
They just raised another $800k on Kickstarter so there must have been enough people sufficiently impressed by the initial launch


Ah. Well then. Talk about hiding your light under a bushel.

TBH I'm interested in the triad system, if they're easier to source on this side of the pond compared to Reaper. Otherwise I'm about as unserious about painting as you can imagine. Although that might recommend them to me too, if I can slap on an even coat with as little faff as possible.

Tell you what, if Duncan announces a bunch more washes and contrast-alikes (and doesn't feth about with the lineup just to keep up with GW's fething-about) I'm in.


Yeah I'm in a very similar boat to be honest - I'm as bad of a paint in that I thin down my paint in the pots! I went for the basic basic pledge in the first wave and couldn't justify a whole £150 for everything in the second wave. One thing I will say though, I will be using the metallics exclusively


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/03/02 20:43:30


Post by: Polonius


SpaceMcQuirk wrote:The three tier wheel system and the 'Eadbangin' ball bearing cover both these marks.


winnertakesall wrote: I think the main issue is that Asmodee aren't selling it in the US yet.


These two are at least tangentially related. Triads and shakers have been part of Reaper colors for at close to 20 years. Reaper, of course, is extremely lightly distributed outside of the US.

And in the US, Pro Acryl is coming on strong with their own Influencer paint collections.

Vermis wrote:
Even so, I was a little surprised by this thread. Most of it is discussion in anticipation of the paints, then when the first wave hit there were a couple of 'yeah they're pretty good' posts and then it died a death. The second wave with a big expansion hit, but there was way less hype for it.
Is anyone using, or even excited for these paints in significant numbers?


I think between the cost and distribution people aren't snapping them up, and I'm guessing like a lot of kickstarter stuff more than a few sets are unopened in a closet somewhere.

I haven't used them (again, no distribution in the US), but they don't seem to have a strength to justify the cost plus difficulty buying them. It doesn't hurt that two of the bigger paint influencers on YouTube, Ninjon and Vince, created their own sets with Pro Acryl. Oddly, after typing that I checked, and Ninjon did do a positive review of the range (basically seeing GW paints in dropper bottles as enough of a selling point), while Vince (who has a super deep bench of paints) seems not to have reviewed them, but I could see him being a guy who won't accept review copies.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/06/05 11:21:50


Post by: The Red Hobbit


 stahly wrote:
I reviewed the whole first wave a while ago and I was very positively surprised. I reviewed a fair share of paints and paint ranges over the last couple of years, but I think Two Thin Coats are the best range all around atm – very high opacity and smooth application, plus very solid metallics and washes:




Most colours are pretty close to their Citadel counterparts which makes transitioning easy. Can't wait for wave 2 to arrive. Along with new Vallejo Game Color acrylics (just the acrylics, rest is average), these are currently my favourite paints to use (plus a few AK 3rd Gen paints, and Vallejo Mecha Color and ProAcryl metallics).

Of course, at the end of the day it's only paint, but if you're serious about painting and want a paint that performs a bit better than Citadel & Army Painter, then I recommend them wholeheartedly.

Just wanted to say I really appreciated the review you put together for this. I was putting together an order for paint this week and I found your review on the reds, browns and metallics extremely helpful.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/12 14:23:22


Post by: JWBS


 stahly wrote:
I reviewed the whole first wave a while ago and I was very positively surprised. I reviewed a fair share of paints and paint ranges over the last couple of years, but I think Two Thin Coats are the best range all around atm – very high opacity and smooth application, plus very solid metallics and washes:




Most colours are pretty close to their Citadel counterparts which makes transitioning easy. Can't wait for wave 2 to arrive. Along with new Vallejo Game Color acrylics (just the acrylics, rest is average), these are currently my favourite paints to use (plus a few AK 3rd Gen paints, and Vallejo Mecha Color and ProAcryl metallics).

Of course, at the end of the day it's only paint, but if you're serious about painting and want a paint that performs a bit better than Citadel & Army Painter, then I recommend them wholeheartedly.


Do you get paid by Duncan, Stahly? I'm uncomfortable to ask, and I'm not doing so on the strength of this glowing endorsement alone, which is about as positive as possible (in some sense literally) but I have concerns for a number of reasons.

/edit - by "Duncan" I mean "Two Thin Coats" / whoever makes it / markets it, not necessarily Duncan.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/12 18:49:39


Post by: Grail Seeker


Why do you have concerns? This thread, and elsewhere have been positive above the line.

I have only used a few, but I love their metallics, probably my favorite metallic paints in my collection.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/12 22:14:43


Post by: Undead_Love-Machine


JWBS wrote:


Do you get paid by Duncan, Stahly? I'm uncomfortable to ask, and I'm not doing so on the strength of this glowing endorsement alone, which is about as positive as possible (in some sense literally) but I have concerns for a number of reasons.


That's a bit unnecessary, IMHO.

The guy prides himself on his balanced reviews. Is it not likely that he was simply very impressed by the paint range?

What are the concerns that you mention, or your reasons for your concerns?


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/13 00:31:56


Post by: lurch


I really like these but they have only been available in my part of the US since about a month ago and no sign of wave two yet also not seeing any online stores in the states with them, so while I really like them I have not been impressed with asmodia's role out of them

Edit: was just reading the kick starter page and It seems that wave 2 is still finishing shipping to backers so its not surprising that they haven't had a general release of it, rest of the point still stands


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/13 01:07:02


Post by: Ghaz


Angel Giraldez seems to like them for the most part.



 lurch wrote:
I really like these but they have only been available in my part of the US since about a month ago and no sign of wave two yet also not seeing any online stores in the states with them, so while I really like them I have not been impressed with asmodia's role out of them.

One of my FLGS is going to stock the Two Thin Coats and Pro Acryl paint lines, along with Citadel, Formula P3, Reaper and Army Painter paints that they already stock (they don't do online sales however).


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/13 12:31:18


Post by: deano2099


 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
JWBS wrote:


Do you get paid by Duncan, Stahly? I'm uncomfortable to ask, and I'm not doing so on the strength of this glowing endorsement alone, which is about as positive as possible (in some sense literally) but I have concerns for a number of reasons.


That's a bit unnecessary, IMHO.

The guy prides himself on his balanced reviews. Is it not likely that he was simply very impressed by the paint range?

What are the concerns that you mention, or your reasons for your concerns?

The video has the "Includes Paid Promotion" tag. So I think it's legit to ask what that is. Someone paid for the video. May have been another sponsor but I don't think it's out of order to ask.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/13 12:42:36


Post by: kodos


and that is said at the very beginning of the video, that he got send the colours to review and did not purchased them


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/20 09:13:25


Post by: Gimgamgoo


I'm going to add my experience here.

I backed all of Wave 1 and the rack. Great products. My only gripe was that some of the paints are a little thick and have to be diluted. The beige type colours came out of my bottles like toothpaste but they dilute and cover really smoothly. As I really liked the paints, I backed wave 2.

I just received them and the rack but haven't had a chance to use many of the wave 2 paints. The only one I've tried so far is the green glaze which is a little darker and stronger than the old GW green glaze I was hoping it would replace - seeing as though GW always discontinue paints when I'm mid way through projects.

Anyway, my biggest gripe is the Wave 2 paint rack. As I was building it, it seemed to be as good as the first, same build, same size etc. That was until I tried putting paints on it.

They just don't fit properly. They have to be wedged in, scraping and knocking the whole shelf as you do it.
I've put a photo below showing the difference between the fantastic wave 1 rack (on the right) and the slightly different designed wave 2 rack on the left. I know on the photo it looks like a simple tilt of the bottle will get it out, but because of the dividers between bottles, it doesn't tilt enough. The only way is to jam it, wedge and scrape it in/out.
Meh.

I might send an email off to Sarissa Precision as well asking why the hell it wasn't tested first.



Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/20 19:52:31


Post by: jimbolina25


I'm certainly going to give them a try.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/08/20 21:11:34


Post by: stahly


By the way, I did a review for wave 2 of the Two Thin Coats range, and I'm pleased to say that the new Glaze paints are pretty exact matches for the OOP Citadel Glaze paints, especially the Yellow Glaze & red Glaze are spot on for Lamenters Yellow and Bloodletter:




I also have a hand-painted comparison sheet of all colours and their Citadel counterparts here: https://taleofpainters.com/2023/08/review-two-thin-coats-wave-2-by-duncan-rhodes/

And for those wondering: No, I don't accept payment for my reviews. I usually get the products for free, but that doesn't stop me from sharing my honest opinion (and I criticized a fair few things in the past).

It's just that Two Thin Coats does a lot of things right that I'm looking for in a paint range. But I like other paint ranges as well, in fact I just compiled a list of my favourite paints and paint ranges sorted by categories: https://taleofpainters.com/2023/08/stahlys-best-acrylic-paints-for-painting-warhammer-miniatures-2023/


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2023/09/11 05:13:57


Post by: privateer4hire


I bought white, red, bone color and the muddy wash. Coverage is great on all the colors. The wash is definitely not an exact agrax match and really needs to be thinned. The white did that little clog and puke thing that I have had vallejo and army painter bottles do. So that’s annoying but manageable with extra effort to clean the top afterwards. I think I have gotten my money’s worth.


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2024/02/20 09:36:08


Post by: winnertakesall


Some cool looking stuff in there. I've got the first range but didn't have the money for the second. Was majorly impressed with the first wave, some of the best paint I've used. Exceptionally smooth with great colour coverage, especially the metallics which are *very* good.

Will probably get at least some of this - the metallics look great, particularly that metallic black which would be great for chaos warrior armour


Duncan Rhodes launching his own paint line? (Wave 3 teaser pg. 10) @ 2024/02/20 17:33:07


Post by: hotsauceman1


Man, wave 3 before US even gets wave 2, lame.