Hello gamers,

Just recently I have read the rules for Dropzone Commander. One of the faction which piqued my interest were the Scourge. Those aliens use biomechanical vehicles in combat just like the Cylon Raiders (Starfighters) did in Battlestar Galactica.

So what would you think, if GW would reintroduce biomechanical vehicles for the Tyranids?

Oh and one more thing: Please keep the discussion civil.


Regards
Strg Alt


Edit:
Changed the title due to the fact that Tyranids had in Epic creatures which resembled vehicles. So the term "Retcon" was misleading.

Some of the early Tyranids do have a touch of Bio-mechanical appearance. The first edition biovore has a mechanical looking cannon and a few of the tyranids from Epic (eg the Exocrine) look a little tank like at that scale.

Tyranids do also have bio-weapons and, again, going back they were a touch more biomechanical. In fact early Tyranids almost all held their weapons, today they are almost all fused to the hands in some form.


So there is the ground work there, however I just don't see it happening. It would be a vast re-design and really eat into the role and position of things like the Carnifex in the army to start giving them biomechanical tanks.


Now Genestealer Cults might, but I don't see it happening. The army with bio-mechs/tanks is Chaos in 40K and I figure that's likely going to remain their thing


Personally I'm sure GW would do awesome tyranid tanks, but I sort of prefer if the bio-mech remains Chaos and the Tyranids remain conceptually as they are.

Nids are biomechanical looking already.

I like my tyranids as bioweapons rather than biomechanical. I think biomechanical is covered already as mentioned above by Chaos Daemon engines and Admech (and possibly Dark Mech in the future?).

I'd rather see nids double down on the purely biological theme.

Oh Lordy no. No no no.

The whole point is that they’re entirely organic.

Sure, they’ll incorporate minerals and that into chitin, but not replace chitin with metal. That would require further resources (smelting and refining processes, shaping it and so on). Given what they can do with flesh, that’s a significant waste of resources for frankly negligeble at best gain.

My big question would be: why? Some other game system doing it doesn't seem like any sort of justification and it's not like Tyranids don't already have a well-developed background as it is. What would be gained by changing the background for them? How would it improve anything? What's wrong with the current background?

What Slipspace said. Just because another game has that theme doesn't mean Tyranids have to be retconned to match.

@Slipspace:

Justification for Retcons? GW doesn't need any.

They see nice stuff from other sources and incorporate it into their brand. Not an alien concept at all. In fact most of the stuff you see in 40K are stolen ideas from other franchises.

 Strg Alt wrote:
@Slipspace:

Justification for Retcons? GW doesn't need any.

They see nice stuff from other sources and incorporate it into their brand. Not an alien concept at all. In fact most of the stuff you see in 40K are stolen ideas from other franchises.

While the early influences for the creation of 40k and WHFB are pretty obvious it's a pretty well-trodden, tiresome and overblown meme at this point that GW stole all their ideas. It's more like a cross-contamination of a lot of social and cultural influences from people at the same time, especially where 40k is concerned. Also, once established, there haven't been too many major changes to the 40k lore since the end of 2nd edition. The onloy big ones I can think of are the complete retcon of the Necrons (which didn't go down too well) and the introduction of Dark Eldar and Tau. That still leaves the question of why they'd change established lore for Tyranids when there's nothing wrong with it.

I’m all for the idea. The unit can cost 350 points and have BS 4+ and a 5+ armour save.

I think it would detract from the identity of the Tyranids. We've already got all manner of biomechanical stuff in 40k (Admech, DE Coven, bionics, arguably some Chaos stuff etc.), what really makes Tyranids stand out is that they're entirely organic.


But just on this train of thought, I wouldn't necessarily object to Tyranids having organic "vehicles". However, I think they should be akin to the Tervigon (albeit hopefully with better rules) or the SC2 Broodlord. i.e. leaning more towards spawners than transports.

What I really don't want to see is Tyranid vehicles being piloted by Warriors or something. Necrons have already been treated to that garbage and I'd really prefer to not see more of it.

If there is a retcon for Tiranids y hope they can became parents and form their own little families... A small baby Carnifex will be cute

They have done tyranids riding tyranids in the Dominatrix which appears to have had two lore descriptions

1) The creature sitting on the throne atop was: a Norn Queen* and was basically a huge physic powerhouse that was physically weaker which thus rode atop the mighty dominatrix titan.

b) The creature sitting atop was a warrior that was aiming the main cannon atop its back.

2) The original Tervigon (might have been called something else back then?) in Epic which was a transport which housed the Tyranids within it

3) The Harridain has an optional set of gargoyles that are mounted underneath it

5) The drop-pods of course, which are fully current.


Tyranids have long had "riders". Venom sacs and adrenal glands are both technically riders ; with the 4th edition cover art for the codex showing venom sac spiders running along with the swarm ready to latch onto and deliver boosting performance ot the Tyranids.
Many of the guns have "eye" sockets on the side; the biovore canon is "held" by the boivore. Over time some of these have become far more "melted" into one.
Eg if you look at generation 1 tyranids they are all visibly holding their weapons. By the 2nd and 3rd (current) generations they are almost all melded with their guns. Some to the point where their claws are totally lost to the melding.



Which is how Tyranids have often done riders. So its never so much a pilot/rider, but rather a melding of one or more very specific creatures with specific roles that work together.

*Note this is old lore and Norn Queens are much changed from it. I believe it might even be lore only printed in a White Dwarf or so released around the time of Epic 40K when they did Tyranids. It might have also appeared in an early Codex for 40K once but I can't recall.

I much prefer nids as a purely biological species. But if they wanted to bring out a biomechanical alien species like the Rak'Gol from the roleplaying games, I'd be interested in collecting a few of them.

Edit:

Changed the title. See first post why.

In Nomine Imperatoris had rules for the following creatures in 3rd.

Malefactor:
Transports small creatures into battle like an APC.

Dactylis:
Hurls spore mines over a large distance via two large arms like artillery.

Exocrine:
Creature which is used by the swarm as a ranged, anti- tank organism.

Trygon:
Massive beast bred for close-combat.

Haruspex:
Designed for short-ranged firefights.

Harridan:
Carries gargoyles into battle.


The usual means of propulsion for these creatures were with the exception of the Harridan either by feet like that of a caterpillar or by gliding with a slug-like body. New creature vehicles could float above the battlefield like venomthropes or by psionic means to add variety to the whole swarm.








Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Vipoid:

Agreed. Necrons driving their vehicles like pedal boats look pretty dumb. As I said in my initial post the biomechanical vehicles should be more akin to the Cylon Raiders of BSG.

Those weren't 'vehicles' per se; they were designed as superheavy tank equivalents for Tyranids, with the slug form being at least in part due to the sculpting limitations of the scale.

The Haruspex, Exocrine, and Trygon were brought back in 40K with new (and smaller) designs that more closely resemble the existing Carnifex kit, and the Harridan has a resin model that is closer to 'dragon' than 'winged APC'.

If the Dactylis or Malefactor come back, I'd expect them to be more like the other monstrous creatures.

I am currently building up a tyranid army, they are all cybernetically enhances bugs. the models are iron hive by the makers cult that fit the bill, though i am mixing and matching these 3d printed parts with actual models for more of an organic cyborg tyranid mix

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-print-models/miniatures/sci-fi/iron-hive-warriors-set-1

I’m kinda torn on a hypothetical return to tank shaped tank bugs.

On one hand, Nids have more or less formalised bio form. Six appendages, tail, bulbous bonce and their chitin shape. Bigger bugs have increasing numbers of vents to aid with temperature regulation. I like that, as it adds a single design language to a pretty out-there army.

On the other? I wouldn’t mind tank bugs looking like their original Epic incarnations. As if the standard Nid Bioform has biological size limitations, so an entirely different species is grown into the big stuff.

What makes a vehicle a vehicle? Imo the Tyrannocyte is more or less a nid "vehicle". But it's still just a big organism, as all nid constructs/entities should be.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m kinda torn on a hypothetical return to tank shaped tank bugs.

On one hand, Nids have more or less formalised bio form. Six appendages, tail, bulbous bonce and their chitin shape. Bigger bugs have increasing numbers of vents to aid with temperature regulation. I like that, as it adds a single design language to a pretty out-there army.

On the other? I wouldn’t mind tank bugs looking like their original Epic incarnations. As if the standard Nid Bioform has biological size limitations, so an entirely different species is grown into the big stuff.

I think nids were done some justice with their epic incarnations. They really felt like a bio-mechanical(in as much as human are bio-mechanical) collective of organisms specifically created to do a job.
Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery. The bugs have never run up against a baneblade/shadowsword etc.. see what wonderous devastation it brings and Naturally wants to emulate that with the library of DNA to pick/choose from. Granted the logistical restrictions/advantages of both are taken into consideration.

Definition of biomechanical: relating to the mechanical laws concerning the movement or structure of living organisms. Tyranids are already biomechanical, any living organism capable of movement is biomechanical.

As for Tyranids with a more "vehicular" form, that wouldn't look good at the 28mm scale, and honestly it would come as miniature bloat as Tyranid monsters already serve as equivalents to vehicles.

There wouldn't have to be a retcon for this to happen, since Tyranids could just build a new organism from absorbing something else. Imagine if they ended up consuming something like a maulerfiend.

yeah no reason to re-invent the 'nids, that said some sort of "tyranid carrier organism" that basicly acts as a transport for gaunts could be an intreasting unit idea

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
There wouldn't have to be a retcon for this to happen, since Tyranids could just build a new organism from absorbing something else. Imagine if they ended up consuming something like a maulerfiend.

Thing is Chaos things, when they die, tend to dissolve back into the Warp. Plus part of what makes them "work" is the forces and energies of Chaos itself.

Take most of Nurgle's forces, they are mutated, infected, puss filled and oozing with maggots. They should be doubled over in pain and even if they can ignore that, they'd be physically crippled - yet they aren't. At least they aren't when the forces of Chaos are with them. Plus Chaos demons, when they die, return to the Warp. I would wager Chaos engines of war would either fully return, or just leave a pile of machine bits that won't work because the organics and what controlled them are gone.


Heck there's one hive fleet that has to pre-digest worlds for another because the latter is fighting Demon infested worlds and basically has no instant biomass to replenish its swarm from.
Plus lets not forget Tyranids en-mass project an anti-warp field (or rather the Shadow in the Warp drives back the demons in the warp).

The best Tyranids can do is out-evolve Chaos in an arms race, but they can't take Chaos and use it for themselves. Tyranids are just incompatible with the warp to the point where some have theorized that Tyranids might be the galactic answer to Chaos. A bit like the white-blood-cells of the universe. A force drawn to Chaos energies (and those which manipulate them) which purges them. Lets face it Chaos relies on emotional drive, if Tyranids consume all in the Milky Way then even with Warp Rifts, there's nothing for the Warp to latch onto.

Here is the most important question: "why?"

What problems does this address? How is the faction better off with this implemented then before?

I like the fact that the Exocrine went from this to this.

Fits more with the aesthetic of the Tyranid army. Why would we want to regress, or make things more mechanical. We already have Daemon Engines. Why do we need another race doing something similar?

BrianDavion wrote:
yeah no reason to re-invent the 'nids, that said some sort of "tyranid carrier organism" that basicly acts as a transport for gaunts could be an intreasting unit idea

That APC creature was already created back in Epic Hive War. It was the Malefactor and could carry 10. More useful to carry something harder hitting such as Genestealers.

They weren't more vehicular, they were more sluglike - ie they had no limbs.

I don't see anything wrong with specialised organisms having been bred without limbs. It's kind of boring if every tyranid is built around the same body plan.

Heavily armour plated slugs with huge cannons is pretty cool to me.

I'd love nothing more than the Dactylis and Malefactor to come back to the Tyranids. Even do it as a dual kit like the Haruspex/Exocrine.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Hello gamers,

Just recently I have read the rules for Dropzone Commander. One of the faction which piqued my interest were the Scourge. Those aliens use biomechanical vehicles in combat just like the Cylon Raiders (Starfighters) did in Battlestar Galactica.

So what would you think, if GW would reintroduce biomechanical vehicles for the Tyranids?

Oh and one more thing: Please keep the discussion civil.


Regards
Strg Alt


Edit:
Changed the title due to the fact that Tyranids had in Epic creatures which resembled vehicles. So the term "Retcon" was misleading.

I love DZC! Wish it had caught on more, 'cause I have a bunch of it and nobody to play with except demo games. UCM FTW.

That said, I'm pretty sure the Scourge vehicles are actually just vehicles, they're not bugs or anything. They're made in factories and such. They've got manufactured organic components to allow a Scourge organism to interface with and control like it would control a true organic creature, but the tank in itself isn't a Scourge lifeform, it's an armored box that a Scourge lifeform is riding inside and operating.

 Hellebore wrote:
They weren't more vehicular, they were more sluglike - ie they had no limbs.

I don't see anything wrong with specialised organisms having been bred without limbs. It's kind of boring if every tyranid is built around the same body plan.

Heavily armour plated slugs with huge cannons is pretty cool to me.

Actually the Exocrine cannon was its limbs, fused together. The other slug creatures had a pair of limbs.

I have mixed feelings on this. GW said they developed the Tyranid look because they wanted a unified look rather than a range of varied creature body plans. However it is also ironic that for a faction that is supposedly so variable and all about evolving its component species, that all the Hive Mind comes up with are the same old body plans for its ground creatures. However I also acknowledge that the old slug tanks scaled to 40K scale look a bit weird or just like a passive block/slab.

Well, on that. There’s the theory that any Alien life we might discover is likely to follow our form, because it’s proven evolutionary successful on earth.

The Hive Mind has likely found the same with the six limbed layout, for whatever reason. That would help avoid wasting resources, I guess?

Wouldn't bio-mechanical hybrids be a better fit for Genestealer Cults? They have than industrial thing going on, so what if they had access to special types of biomorphs that are designed to interface with machines?

I could see some Ad Mech who gets corrupted by a Genestealer Cult make a machine in the "image of the Star Gods"

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, on that. There’s the theory that any Alien life we might discover is likely to follow our form, because it’s proven evolutionary successful on earth.

The Hive Mind has likely found the same with the six limbed layout, for whatever reason. That would help avoid wasting resources, I guess?

Except not all body plans scale up. Monster movies aside, you cannot scale up an ant's design to a Titan scale assuming all other things like material remain the same.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, on that. There’s the theory that any Alien life we might discover is likely to follow our form, because it’s proven evolutionary successful on earth.

Imo that theory seems increeeeedibly dubious, especially considering the biodiversity of so many successful specis.

The Hive Mind has likely found the same with the six limbed layout, for whatever reason. That would help avoid wasting resources, I guess?

It is useful as a template for nids aesthetically, but I do find it a bit boring. I'd think it would be more realistic to have greater variation, personally. Being unbounded by traditional evolution, I like the idea that nids could vary in form more than they do on the tabletop.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wouldn't bio-mechanical hybrids be a better fit for Genestealer Cults? They have than industrial thing going on, so what if they had access to special types of biomorphs that are designed to interface with machines?

Or even existing machinery. Imagine a weapon or organism that could be introduced to machinery that could grow into and 'pilot' the machine, absorbing the knowledge like feeder tendril genestealers/lictors.

I'm thinking something similar to the final neo mutate in Exo Squad.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wouldn't bio-mechanical hybrids be a better fit for Genestealer Cults? They have than industrial thing going on, so what if they had access to special types of biomorphs that are designed to interface with machines?

it might fit if they evolved for it, but they have perfectly good meat puppets to do their bidding when things go well. Since the ultimate goal is just feed on the biomass of the planet seems inefficient to make another bit of meat pilot the machine learning to interface with it from scratch when you could just have the willing pilot walk out of the machine and throw itself into the digestive pool.

speaking of which of all the fates of a human imagine being one of said genesteeler cults. you are fighting the oppressive imperium. you succesfully overthrow the planetary governance. the six armed emperor shows up in the form of bio monsters and bio titans to aid in your fight, and then when you get your moment of triumph and the planet is taken over... you literally get eaten.

I don't want to see Tyranid tanks (part organic part vehicle)

I could go for some new tyranid organisms, or re-imagining of some of the existing ones.

For example, I'd like to see another tyranid transport beside the tervigon - maybe something that can hold 20 or 30 gaunts (hormagaunts, termgants & gargoyles) and/or warriors (and maybe zoanthropes or venomthropes).

I don't think tyranids have a bike equivalent (maybe ravagers?), and something bike-quick would be interesting for them.

They can cover bikes by making Raveners interesting and useful. Or by bringing back Shrikes.

The Malefactor is what they need to resurrect/redesign for the transport.

 Stormonu wrote:
I could go for some new tyranid organisms, or re-imagining of some of the existing ones.

For example, I'd like to see another tyranid transport beside the tervigon - maybe something that can hold 20 or 30 gaunts (hormagaunts, termgants & gargoyles) and/or warriors (and maybe zoanthropes or venomthropes).

I don't think tyranids have a bike equivalent (maybe ravagers?), and something bike-quick would be interesting for them.

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/167759154847940232/

You've just described the Malefactor. Carried 10 and had decent ability to assault other things. Had some frag spines for some mild ranged firepower.

Btw, the Lexicanum entry is wrong. The old Epic Haruspex had the acid jets. Malefactor had frag spines. Both had spore cysts (bolter equivalents) for point defense.

With the amount of burrowing/flying/deep striking/birthing do we really need a transport?

Visually and thematically I much prefer the idea of spores dropping from space, disgorging the swarm. For late stage battles, the ground erupting with trygons and gribblies following after also works.

Conceptually, I prefer the tervigon if we want to disembark troops into the fight.

I would like our giant bugs to act like tanks. But that’s rules tweaking.

If we are adding stuff, I’d like to see the assorted genotypes fleshed out. Every flavor should have a small-medium-large/HQ range. Like the gaunt/warrior/tyrant path, for also for those that fly, slither, etc. Shrikes would fill the flyer line, but the snake nids could use another entry. They have rippers, raveners, and trygons. Not really a gaunt equivalent, and raveners are not tryanid warriors. No mini boss synapse.

I have a soft spot for second edition nids (and epic nids for that matter). They were the force I mainly played (and suffered) against back in second edition, and so in my mind they are scary.

I genuinely prefer this:



to this:



The nids lost something for me personally when they became more uniformed and less biomechanical. Now I'm not suggesting a second edition fex is a better model than the current, but if that was scaled up appropriately and modernised, the 2nd edition is a more imposing aesthetic than the current. I just think modern nids are not that scary or sinister. Even then second edition Tyrant was more intimidating for me.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I have a soft spot for second edition nids (and epic nids for that matter). They were the force I mainly played (and suffered) against back in second edition, and so in my mind they are scary.

I genuinely prefer this:



to this:



The nids lost something for me personally when they became more uniformed and less biomechanical. Now I'm not suggesting a second edition fex is a better model than the current, but if that was scaled up appropriately and modernised, the 2nd edition is a more imposing aesthetic than the current. I just think modern nids are not that scary or sinister. Even then second edition Tyrant was more intimidating for me.

Agreed. Modern Nids look streamlined because they seem to be produced by Henry Ford's conveyor belts with a STC blueprint in mind as opposed to the fluff which states that the bugs have eaten and used countless different alien species for future bio organisms while travelling through a plethora of foreign galaxies.

I liked 2nd ed nids, and I still do.

But the old screamer killer looks like a cartoon, and it's 1/3 the size of a modern carnie- if that.

The current carnifex not only looks like an actual creature, it's big enough that you can see it rolling a land raider.

Like I said, I like the old one; I always will. But the newer kit is always the one I want to put on the table. By contrast, the 2nd ed lictor and hive tyrant both look like real creatures and both still hold up on the table.

On a side note: I definitely prefer the original Epic 40k Hierophant to the Forgeworld design.

PenitentJake wrote:
I liked 2nd ed nids, and I still do.

But the old screamer killer looks like a cartoon, and it's 1/3 the size of a modern carnie- if that.

The current carnifex not only looks like an actual creature, it's big enough that you can see it rolling a land raider.

Like I said, I like the old one; I always will. But the newer kit is always the one I want to put on the table. By contrast, the 2nd ed lictor and hive tyrant both look like real creatures and both still hold up on the table.

On a side note: I definitely prefer the original Epic 40k Hierophant to the Forgeworld design.

That's more of a technical issue, most models were smaller back then.
A more "modern" design would certainly be larger.
A more modern design would also look like an actual creature due to the extra details and improved modelling techniques.

Second ed tyranids look weirder and more alien to me, and that's great. The newer sculpts look more generic.

I did mention at the bottom of the original post that a newer rendition of the old style carnifex would indeed be bigger.

Tyranid warriors are another weird change for me, the 2nd ed models were awful, truly awful, but the artwork for them...



This style, with the technology to make the models look like that artwork? And the size of that Carnifex in the background... Not to mention the nid war machines.

Not all 2nd ed tyrnaids were perfect in design, zoanthropes were just weird, however, I'm not sure the modern take on them is all that great either.

Anyway yeah, a complete remake of tyranids harking back to the 2nd ed days with modern scaling would be awesome. Current nids, with all the whacky colour schemes are almost, cute, you could imagine some of them as pets.

Why do they have beaks in their... ehmm...

 Galas wrote:
Why do they have beaks in their... ehmm...

Why don't you?
I like it, it's weird and alien as well.
Also that gun has balls. That is funny to me.

Yeah, this is part of the problem of 2nd ed tyranids, the Hive tyrant is worse...

They probably need to have the sexualised aspects of them removed...

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Yeah, this is part of the problem of 2nd ed tyranids, the Hive tyrant is worse...

They probably need to have the sexualised aspects of them removed...

I personally think nids need more HR Geiger, not less
Sadly, most marketing departments would not agree with me

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Yeah, this is part of the problem of 2nd ed tyranids, the Hive tyrant is worse...

They probably need to have the sexualised aspects of them removed...

I personally think nids need more HR Geiger, not less
Sadly, most marketing departments would not agree with me

If wyche's can no longer show a bit of thigh and glutes, I doubt we're going to get face eating penis' and vaginas capable of skinning a person in 0.2 seconds...

I actually agree with you in some respect, but I have always seen this as a more adult game/setting... That is not what GW sees it as though.

I liked the current version of tyranids when they were first released. They were more "real" than the 2nd edition ones which I always thought looked a bit silly and cartoony. But looking back at them, though obviously dated they had quite a unique and distinctive look, which if modernised might be quite cool.

I still like the the current tyranids, and I do like that there is a cohesive look across the faction, but they do look very generic now, and not particularly unique to 40k, I would hazard a guess that if you were to show them to someone unfamiliar with 40k they would see a generic monster alien, and probably thing of the xenomorph, starship troopers and Enders game.

As I've said before in this thread, I lke the purely organic aspect of the tyranids, so wouldn't be particularly keen in seeing more tech/organic things or tank-like tyranids. But if the range were to be refreshed, I'd welcome something a bit more distinctive.

Tyranids look the way they do now because Jes Goodwin took back control of their design after the terrible 3rd Ed redesign (the Alien Queen HT, the grinning rhino-horned Carnifex, the weird Raveners) the and made them unified. He further emphasised the species similarities with the head plates and things like that, trying to make them appear as different off-shoots of the same race, rather than the mish-mash of ideas they were in 2nd Ed or whatever they were attempting to do in 3rd.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They probably need to have the sexualised aspects of them removed...

There were sexualised aspects of 2nd Ed Tyranids?

I'll admit, I liked the Tyrant better when he was an XL sized Warrior rather than a XL sized Gaunt, as he is now.
Only thing I would modernize was the rather static pose.
Right now, the Warriors look a bit out of place with their xenomorph headcrests when most other Tyranid organisms don't have them.

The closest you could get to sexualised was the old first generation hormagaunts and even then its a stretch since its mostly their "Alien franchise" style design head and a bit of the pose. But that's about as "sexualised" as they ever were. Otherwise I can't think any traditionally "sexy" tyranids


Personally whilst the 3rd edition redesign introduced some neat concepts - eg floating zoanthropes and adding raveners* - I was never a big fan of the overall designs they did in metal. Gaunts worked well, but the carnifex and such were just wrong as was the Hive Tyrant. The Jes Goodwin redesign I have loved ever since it was made, It just feels more, right,



*I'd honestly prefer to see the long tails that they had before come back

 Overread wrote:
The closest you could get to sexualised was the old first generation hormagaunts and even then its a stretch since its mostly their "Alien franchise" style design head and a bit of the pose. But that's about as "sexualised" as they ever were. Otherwise I can't think any traditionally "sexy" tyranids


Personally whilst the 3rd edition redesign introduced some neat concepts - eg floating zoanthropes and adding raveners* - I was never a big fan of the overall designs they did in metal. Gaunts worked well, but the carnifex and such were just wrong as was the Hive Tyrant. The Jes Goodwin redesign I have loved ever since it was made, It just feels more, right,



*I'd honestly prefer to see the long tails that they had before come back

I actually saw the Raveners as a bit of cross-pollination from Starcraft's Hydralisk, just as Starcraft might have borrowed ideas from the Tyranids for the Zerg.

Imo the early plastic Warriors are the best. They're also surprisingly taller than the current kits. To me they look more alien, and more intelligent.

Iracundus wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The closest you could get to sexualised was the old first generation hormagaunts and even then its a stretch since its mostly their "Alien franchise" style design head and a bit of the pose. But that's about as "sexualised" as they ever were. Otherwise I can't think any traditionally "sexy" tyranids


Personally whilst the 3rd edition redesign introduced some neat concepts - eg floating zoanthropes and adding raveners* - I was never a big fan of the overall designs they did in metal. Gaunts worked well, but the carnifex and such were just wrong as was the Hive Tyrant. The Jes Goodwin redesign I have loved ever since it was made, It just feels more, right,



*I'd honestly prefer to see the long tails that they had before come back

I actually saw the Raveners as a bit of cross-pollination from Starcraft's Hydralisk, just as Starcraft might have borrowed ideas from the Tyranids for the Zerg.

Oh very much so, they even do the whole "thorax" weapon not just a held gun

 Overread wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
I actually saw the Raveners as a bit of cross-pollination from Starcraft's Hydralisk, just as Starcraft might have borrowed ideas from the Tyranids for the Zerg.

Oh very much so, they even do the whole "thorax" weapon not just a held gun

*ahem*

And remember: All of GW's ideas are completely original and 100% not borrowed from outside sources. They said so in court.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
I actually saw the Raveners as a bit of cross-pollination from Starcraft's Hydralisk, just as Starcraft might have borrowed ideas from the Tyranids for the Zerg.

Oh very much so, they even do the whole "thorax" weapon not just a held gun

*ahem*

And remember: All of GW's ideas are completely original and 100% not borrowed from outside sources. They said so in court.

Yeah I'm not denying that Starcraft lifted marines tyranids and eldar into marines zerg and protoss; just that the ravenor was very clearly heavily inspired by the Hydralisk.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the early plastic Warriors are the best. They're also surprisingly taller than the current kits. To me they look more alien, and more intelligent.

Damm, I thought that was a rebuilt Tyrant Guard on the end.

It's a Dakkanaut's custom Tyranid Prime.

It's very cool.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's a Dakkanaut's custom Tyranid Prime.

It's very cool.

Ty!

It's Tyrant Guard torso/head, 3rd/4th ed metal Carnifex legs, and Swarmlord Swords. . . The little arms I forget, possibly Tyrant Guard again? Dunno. I copied the build from a friend of mine.

I prefer the revamped Tyranid Warriors myself over the old 2nd edition Warriors with their latticework ribcage and exposed organs. The old ones just look ungainly and don't look as durable. I also wouldn't judge the intelligence by the appearance. That's the classic mistake the Imperium makes.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I think that some of the remakes of Tyranid creatures like the Haruspex lack a bit of originality in appearance and concept for me. Just compare the old slug/crustacean Haruspex vehicle to the new Haruspex, which basically seems like a Carnifex bodyplan vomiting its stomach out. I don't want that to be the direction of new Tyranid creatures, as if just recycling the big Tyranid body doing something slightly different.

I'm a fan of the old 2E Warriors, if they were redone these days with modern sculpting I think they would be fantastic.

I still use mine as Scout Warriors - faster than warrior, but with less armor/toughness. Sort of a genestealer/warrior hybrid.

There's some crazy Tyranids from Advanced Space Crusade I wish they'd consider



I can't even find pictures of some of the weirder pictures from that game, but back in those days it would have been impossible to model some of the crazy things in that book.

Art always looks better, but GW have moved away from Tyranids holding organic but still conventional looking swords to more clearly biological portrayals.

By other stuff, do you mean things like the Grabber Slasher?

https://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f1/Grabberslasher.jpg

GW I think moved away from that just as they moved away from the more mutated Chaos stuff. Jes Goodwin's interview said they were going for more army wide consistency in look. The old stuff even if redone, might have made things too lumpy, weird, and inconsistent across the whole army.

Iracundus wrote:
Art always looks better, but GW have moved away from Tyranids holding organic but still conventional looking swords to more clearly biological portrayals.

By other stuff, do you mean things like the Grabber Slasher?

https://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f1/Grabberslasher.jpg

GW I think moved away from that just as they moved away from the more mutated Chaos stuff. Jes Goodwin's interview said they were going for more army wide consistency in look. The old stuff even if redone, might have made things too lumpy, weird, and inconsistent across the whole army.

That was the big one I was trying to find. I guess they're scattered across the lexicanum?

That grabber slasher had a fig, it was a squig. I had it, painted it, and used it.

Like so https://i.pinimg.com/1200x/c7/06/9a/c7069a293d733d072f6e7ce15cd17dcc.jpg

Iracundus wrote:
Art always looks better, but GW have moved away from Tyranids holding organic but still conventional looking swords to more clearly biological portrayals.

The boneswords look about the same level of biological, imo. It's a blade creature held/attatched to the nid arm/hand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImperialArmy wrote:
That grabber slasher had a fig, it was a squig. I had it, painted it, and used it.

Like so https://i.pinimg.com/1200x/c7/06/9a/c7069a293d733d072f6e7ce15cd17dcc.jpg

^I love the idea of all those random little things. They seem to have all ben turned into Rippers for the modern Nids.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the early plastic Warriors are the best. They're also surprisingly taller than the current kits. To me they look more alien, and more intelligent.

Personally I quite like the late-2nd Warriors:



I've always felt that the bright colors make the sculpts look a lot goofier than they are- while the banana claws haven't aged well, the designs are a little more aggressive and refined than the plastic Warriors they replaced. I'd love to see a modern take on this design.

The 2nd Ed sculpts in general I think look a lot better in darker colors than the original garish studio scheme.

I too would like to see a 2nd ed inspired redesign. And yeah they look a lot better with the darker theme.

Haha, I couldn't disagree more my friend! I had a number of those guys back in the day, and I painted them that exact darker scheme . . . And they were still awful!

They'd need a LOT of work to wind up ok I think

 Insectum7 wrote:
Haha, I couldn't disagree more my friend! I had a number of those guys back in the day, and I painted them that exact darker scheme . . . And they were still awful!

They'd need a LOT of work to wind up ok I think

The great thing about the Internet is that it's okay to be wrong

But in all seriousness your work on those early 2nd Ed plastics has almost redeemed them for me. What a difference the use of color makes.

I think we both agree that it would be fun to see GW bring back some of the design cues of 2nd Ed. While I liked the 3rd Ed totally-not-an-Alien-Queen design for the Hive Tyrant, upon first seeing the 4th Ed (ie current) Hive Tyrant sculpt I remember being thrilled at how they'd brought back the 2nd Ed Tyrant design with a modern styling.

 catbarf wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Haha, I couldn't disagree more my friend! I had a number of those guys back in the day, and I painted them that exact darker scheme . . . And they were still awful!

They'd need a LOT of work to wind up ok I think

The great thing about the Internet is that it's okay to be wrong

But in all seriousness your work on those early 2nd Ed plastics has almost redeemed them for me. What a difference the use of color makes.

I think we both agree that it would be fun to see GW bring back some of the design cues of 2nd Ed. While I liked the 3rd Ed totally-not-an-Alien-Queen design for the Hive Tyrant, upon first seeing the 4th Ed (ie current) Hive Tyrant sculpt I remember being thrilled at how they'd brought back the 2nd Ed Tyrant design with a modern styling.

Agree with the sentiment and %110 agree on the Hive Tyrant. Imo it's one of the best models of the range and I've got my walkrant armed out just like the ol 2nd ed one. Overall the Tyranids, while most models are pretty nice, could afford to have a little more diversity in their design. For what is essentially a warring ecosystem it's a little bland at times.

The orcs are the warring ecosystem. The Tyranids are an homogenizing swarm that devours ecosystems.

 Tyran wrote:
The orcs are the warring ecosystem. The Tyranids are an homogenizing swarm that devours ecosystems.

The Tyranids are a mobile ecosystem. A predatory ecosystem but still an ecosystem. Back in 3rd edition there were descriptions of how for example the Tyranids "tyrannoform" a planet. Local flora gets infected and goes into rapid growth mode, sucking nutrients from the soil, to then be harvested by Rippers who then either regurgitate it or hurl themselves into digestion pools directly. There are a lot of "non-combat" Tyranids that are ruleswise subsumed under the title of Rippers.

Suicidal Carnifex sized Tyranid creatures drill/dig down to create geothermal areas, with the heat used to change the atmosphere/climate and as a source of energy. Forgeworld produced brood nests, organic structures extending underground that served to produce more Tyranids.

Iracundus wrote:
The Tyranids are a mobile ecosystem. A predatory ecosystem but still an ecosystem. Back in 3rd edition there were descriptions of how for example the Tyranids "tyrannoform" a planet. Local flora gets infected and goes into rapid growth mode, sucking nutrients from the soil, to then be harvested by Rippers who then either regurgitate it or hurl themselves into digestion pools directly. There are a lot of "non-combat" Tyranids that are ruleswise subsumed under the title of Rippers.

Suicidal Carnifex sized Tyranid creatures drill/dig down to create geothermal areas, with the heat used to change the atmosphere/climate and as a source of energy. Forgeworld produced brood nests, organic structures extending underground that served to produce more Tyranids.

There is no such thing as a "predatory ecosystem". An ecosystem is a naturally occurring system of living organisms and their environment, that tends towards a self-sustaining equilibrium. Moreover it is a "dumb" system born out of chance, relying entirely on diversity to weather change, be it internal or external.

There is nothing natural nor dumb about what the Tyranids do. "Tyrraformation" is a designed process meant to extract resources needed to satisfy the needs of the Hive Fleet. Every element, every creature, every function has been carefully designed down to the atom (which btw is why they look mostly the same). There is no place for diversity in such process (as the Tyranids out-evolved such need), and it leaves dead, barren worlds on its wake, which is antithetical to the concept of an ecosystem.

^Ecosystems do not have to be natural. An ecosystem is just biological organisms interacting with each other and their environment.

As for diversity the Tyranids come in the form of viruses all the way up to space ships, so they have that covered.

Ecosystems tend towards an equilibrium, Tyranids tend towards exponential expansion. Ecosystems are unguided systems that rely on chance, Tyranids are a guided swarm with intelligent self-design. Ecosystems include predator-prey relationships in which every species and individuals compete against each other for the privilege to reproduce; there is no competition among Tyranid organisms, most of them are not even capable of reproducing.

The diversity in an ecosystem is a product of natural selection, all the shapes and forms life has are because of billions of years of trial and error. Tyranids do not use natural selection, all the forms and shapes found in a Tyranid swarm are by design.

This difference means that in an ecosystem, the same role can be fulfilled by a myriad of different organisms that got there by different evolutive paths. Meanwhile in a Tyranid swarm, each role will be fulfilled a specific organism that was designed for that role. Diversity is the expression of plurality of individuals, while the Tyranids are the expression of the homogeneity of the ultimate individual: the Hive Mind.

Tyranids could be seen as part of an ecosystem just operating on a scale almost impossible for us to perceive because their habitat is the greater universe. Not a plant, or a region, or a continent or a planet - but the Universe.

There might well be things that hunt Tyranids or even that compete with them for resources. There might be things that hunt Tyranids; or Tyranids are an apex predator and prey will control their populations; only in this case prey is whole galaxies so it takes a while for Tyranids to eat themselves into a starvation period.

 Tyran wrote:
Ecosystems tend towards an equilibrium, Tyranids tend towards exponential expansion. Ecosystems are unguided systems that rely on chance, Tyranids are a guided swarm with intelligent self-design. Ecosystems include predator-prey relationships in which every species and individuals compete against each other for the privilege to reproduce; there is no competition among Tyranid organisms, most of them are not even capable of reproducing.

The diversity in an ecosystem is a product of natural selection, all the shapes and forms life has are because of billions of years of trial and error. Tyranids do not use natural selection, all the forms and shapes found in a Tyranid swarm are by design.

This difference means that in an ecosystem, the same role can be fulfilled by a myriad of different organisms that got there by different evolutive paths. Meanwhile in a Tyranid swarm, each role will be fulfilled a specific organism that was designed for that role. Diversity is the expression of plurality of individuals, while the Tyranids are the expression of the homogeneity of the ultimate individual: the Hive Mind.

I think you're bringing a lot of your own definitions/limitations to what an ecosystem is. I put it to you that an ecosystem neither has to be natural, nor tend towards equilibrium for that matter. Humans have definitely attempted to create their own artificial ecosystems, and certainly will in the future as they colonize space, "unnaturally" altering organisms as they go. And rather than tending towards equilibrium, ecosystems expanded from the ocean and to land, obviously, and will expand as far as they are constrained, continuously evolving new organisms to expand further. . . . The Tyranids are just evolved to a state where they are not even contained by galaxies.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I think you're bringing a lot of your own definitions/limitations to what an ecosystem is. I put it to you that an ecosystem neither has to be natural, nor tend towards equilibrium for that matter. Humans have definitely attempted to create their own artificial ecosystems, and certainly will in the future as they colonize space, "unnaturally" altering organisms as they go. And rather than tending towards equilibrium, ecosystems expanded from the ocean and to land, obviously, and will expand as far as they are constrained, continuously evolving new organisms to expand further. . . . The Tyranids are just evolved to a state where they are not even contained by galaxies.

Even if we go by that, human designed ecosystems are infinitely less diverse than natural ones, and humans still need a modicum of diversity for the sake of genetic stability and resistance. Tyranids do not even need that.
And there is still the issue that Tyranid organisms do not interact with each other in the same way species in an ecosystem do, specially when one considers the whole Hive Mind angle. And from a genetically pov, rather than many different species, they are all one super-species.

^A conscious, self-directed, super-species-ecosystem then. It still consists of multiple organisms that can and will consume themselves to re-configure it's balance.

I feel that using that definition, everyone is an ecosystem.

But anyway, going back to the root of the issue, Tyranids diversity is limited by function, it is an homogenizing swarm after all.

It's more than just functionality



1) Resources. Material and psychic/mental are clearly elements that restrict the free creation of some more advanced Tyranids.

2) Unique Elements. Swarmlord is perhaps the best example of something that has almost totally unique attributes that are preserved within the swarm.

3) Something in their very core. Gaunts are pretty weak and stupid, but genestealers are much smarter. Why not just make genestealers. Clearly there's some element of core design within the Tyranids, almost something that guides their designs down a preconceived pathway of development which focuses and crafts them around a certain type of swarm design. Perhaps something so core and primal within them its how they were originally whenever they started.

Iracundus wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
The orcs are the warring ecosystem. The Tyranids are an homogenizing swarm that devours ecosystems.

The Tyranids are a mobile ecosystem. A predatory ecosystem but still an ecosystem. Back in 3rd edition there were descriptions of how for example the Tyranids "tyrannoform" a planet. Local flora gets infected and goes into rapid growth mode, sucking nutrients from the soil, to then be harvested by Rippers who then either regurgitate it or hurl themselves into digestion pools directly. There are a lot of "non-combat" Tyranids that are ruleswise subsumed under the title of Rippers.

Suicidal Carnifex sized Tyranid creatures drill/dig down to create geothermal areas, with the heat used to change the atmosphere/climate and as a source of energy. Forgeworld produced brood nests, organic structures extending underground that served to produce more Tyranids.

And this is what I expect out Tyranid Crusade content.

I also want all the Tyranid terrain in beautiful new plastic to support Tyrannoforming in game. Give us back Spore Chimneys, Digestion Pools and Capillary Towers! Then give us Crusade rules for planetary invasions.

 Tyran wrote:
I feel that using that definition, everyone is an ecosystem.

Technically speaking, anyone can be. If I were tossed to the void in a space suit, myself and all the little critters and bacteria that come along with me definitely become it's own little ecosystem.

 Tyran wrote:
But anyway, going back to the root of the issue, Tyranids diversity is limited by function, it is an homogenizing swarm after all.

You say "homogenizing", but we're still talking life forms ranging from viruses to space craft.

 Insectum7 wrote:
You say "homogenizing", but we're still talking life forms ranging from viruses to space craft.

But diversity isn't a one dimensional spectrum from virus to spacecraft, it is depth. It is a million different viruses, a million different bacteria, a million different plants, a million different animals, etc.

Tyranids don't need a million different viruses, they need one that is capable of killing every unicellular organism at planetary scales, with optional modifications when going against supernatural pathogens. They don't need a million different plants, they only need one that can drain the soil of mineral resources while radically altering the world's atmosphere. They don't need a million of small sized organisms, they only need rippers. They don't need thousands of mid and large sized organisms, they only need a handful dozens of modular templates.

Devastation of Baal wrote:Even at this corpuscular level, it was a mistake to see the lictor as a lictor, one of millions; there were not many, there was one. The lictor was the lictor. Every iteration was a copy, better than perfect for aeons of improvement, party to the actions, mistakes and successes of every other lictor that had come before. Welded to the very genes of its being were untold millions of years of experience. And it was on Baal just as it was simultaneously on a thousand other worlds throughout the galaxy.

Diversity is variety, but Tyranids don't need variety. They need a tool for each job, and then clone that tool a trillion times a trillion.

 Overread wrote:
It's more than just functionality



1) Resources. Material and psychic/mental are clearly elements that restrict the free creation of some more advanced Tyranids.

2) Unique Elements. Swarmlord is perhaps the best example of something that has almost totally unique attributes that are preserved within the swarm.

3) Something in their very core. Gaunts are pretty weak and stupid, but genestealers are much smarter. Why not just make genestealers. Clearly there's some element of core design within the Tyranids, almost something that guides their designs down a preconceived pathway of development which focuses and crafts them around a certain type of swarm design. Perhaps something so core and primal within them its how they were originally whenever they started.

I would put the issue as one of the ruthless calculations of the Hive Mind in terms of cost/benefit and resource use analysis. Genestealers may be more effective in close combat but they would presumingly cost more in resources and time to create, since they are also intelligent enough to operate independently with their own brood telepathy. Gaunts are cannon fodder, acting as mobile ablative shielding, but also deadly enough to pose a threat to the normal average human. The original Battle of Macragge fiction from Epic Hive War even talked of Titans being pulled down by masses of Termagants, with the analogy of lions being pulled down by ants. That is a good trade for the Hive Mind given the relative rarity of Titans and their slow production rate.

Gaunts are cheap to produce and they can reproduce by themselves (at least Hormagaunts can according to the original Epic Hive War). Though the fiction focuses on Space Marines, realistically what the Hive Mind would be facing on most of the human worlds it attacks would be the PDF and Guard, so it would need billions to match their numbers. Small differences in costs of production of different organisms can be significant when at this scale.

Really what would be nice would be drops in points cost for Gaunts and options to take even more of them to emulate the massive scale of such assaults, to cover the board in a carpet of Gaunts. While there have been more big Tyranid monsters introduced over the years, which is understandable as they are more eye catching, for me the quintessential Tyranid army is the swarm army with a tide of Gaunts.

 Tyran wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
You say "homogenizing", but we're still talking life forms ranging from viruses to space craft.

But diversity isn't a one dimensional spectrum from virus to spacecraft, it is depth. It is a million different viruses, a million different bacteria, a million different plants, a million different animals, etc.

Tyranids don't need a million different viruses, they need one that is capable of killing every unicellular organism at planetary scales, with optional modifications when going against supernatural pathogens. They don't need a million different plants, they only need one that can drain the soil of mineral resources while radically altering the world's atmosphere. They don't need a million of small sized organisms, they only need rippers. They don't need thousands of mid and large sized organisms, they only need a handful dozens of modular templates.

Devastation of Baal wrote:Even at this corpuscular level, it was a mistake to see the lictor as a lictor, one of millions; there were not many, there was one. The lictor was the lictor. Every iteration was a copy, better than perfect for aeons of improvement, party to the actions, mistakes and successes of every other lictor that had come before. Welded to the very genes of its being were untold millions of years of experience. And it was on Baal just as it was simultaneously on a thousand other worlds throughout the galaxy.

Diversity is variety, but Tyranids don't need variety. They need a tool for each job, and then clone that tool a trillion times a trillion.

Show us that Tyranids don't need/use variety. They clearly have a wide variety of war-making organisms as evidenced by the game itself, and they develop variations and new types all the time. Who's to say they don't pummel a planet with a million virus types?

 Insectum7 wrote:

Show us that Tyranids don't need/use variety. They clearly have a wide variety of war-making organisms as evidenced by the game itself, and they develop variations and new types all the time. Who's to say they don't pummel a planet with a million virus types?

That's why I quoted the Lictor example. Tyranids don't have a million Lictor types, they have one Lictor that they continuously iterate and improve.

The "wide variety" of war-making organisms are a handful of templates with modular modifications, which is further exemplified by the fact they all share an unified design theme like segmented carapaces and six limbs.
Now from a model perspective, I would like to have more modules and more templates to play with, but they should still follow the unified Tyranid design theme.

 Tyran wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Show us that Tyranids don't need/use variety. They clearly have a wide variety of war-making organisms as evidenced by the game itself, and they develop variations and new types all the time. Who's to say they don't pummel a planet with a million virus types?

That's why I quoted the Lictor example. Tyranids don't have a million Lictor types, they have one Lictor that they continuously iterate and improve.

The "wide variety" of war-making organisms are a handful of templates with modular modifications, which is further exemplified by the fact they all share an unified design theme like segmented carapaces and six limbs.
Now from a model perspective, I would like to have more modules and more templates to play with, but they should still follow the unified Tyranid design theme.

But they have more than one type of organism developed for the purpose of fighting battles. So why would they have only one virus? They very likely have more than one, just as Tyranids feel the need to develop Termagants in addition to Hormagaunts. Nids don't just go in to battle with only Termagants. And Nids are continually iterating on species patterns in their various subfleets (hence Hive Fleet sub-rules, as well as their earlier mutation-capable codexes).

Probably Nid viruses don't have six legs, because they're viruses.

 Insectum7 wrote:

But they have more than one type of organism developed for the purpose of fighting battles. So why would they have only one virus? They very likely have more than one, just as Tyranids feel the need to develop Termagants in addition to Hormagaunts. Nids don't just go in to battle with only Termagants. And Nids are continually iterating on species patterns in their various subfleets (hence Hive Fleet sub-rules, as well as their earlier mutation-capable codexes).

Tyranids are continually iterating, but that doesn't make diversity as new iterations replace the old ones. You do have a point that there is a degree of diversification when it comes to the different Hive Fleets, as each one seems to have their own separate iteration process, but Hive Fleets never diverge enough to the point of being radically different from each other, one has to be able to represent all of them with the same models after all.

As for the mutation mechanic, that actually forced you to be even less diverse, as that mechanic rewarded having as few units as possible (and termagants, hormagaunts and gargoyles were considered the same unit with different upgrades).

Probably Nid viruses don't have six legs, because they're viruses.

Ever heard of the bacteriophages? viruses can have legs.

But well yes the different scale is probably going to force different design principles, but also we are never going to see a nid virus on the tabletop.

 Tyran wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

But they have more than one type of organism developed for the purpose of fighting battles. So why would they have only one virus? They very likely have more than one, just as Tyranids feel the need to develop Termagants in addition to Hormagaunts. Nids don't just go in to battle with only Termagants. And Nids are continually iterating on species patterns in their various subfleets (hence Hive Fleet sub-rules, as well as their earlier mutation-capable codexes).

Tyranids are continually iterating, but that doesn't make diversity as new iterations replace the old ones. You do have a point that there is a degree of diversification when it comes to the different Hive Fleets, as each one seems to have their own separate iteration process, but Hive Fleets never diverge enough to the point of being radically different from each other, one has to be able to represent all of them with the same models after all.

As for the mutation mechanic, that actually forced you to be even less diverse, as that mechanic rewarded having as few units as possible (and termagants, hormagaunts and gargoyles were considered the same unit with different upgrades).

Probably Nid viruses don't have six legs, because they're viruses.

Ever heard of the bacteriophages? viruses can have legs.

But well yes the different scale is probably going to force different design principles, but also we are never going to see a nid virus on the tabletop.

Interesting @ biophages, but there are definitely lore references to nid creatures with more or less than six legs in some novels. Although Tyranids may be in effect less diverse than a pan-galactic span of life developing independently (because the Hive Mind propagates specis updates) none of the above precludes Nids from being obviously more diverse from Eldar, Humans etc, or from being their own ecosystem.

This thread went to a very weird place...