The Emperor’s Champion is a paragon of faith and fury whose appearance on the battlefield strikes fear into the hearts of those who oppose him. And, rest assured, he won’t be standing alone.
Stay tuned to Warhammer Community, where the faithful are sure to receive further blessings very shortly.
* Portable spotlight for tabletop encounters available separately.
Figured since it's not Kill Team related it could get its own thread. Looks like "Miniature Monday" is back on the menu!
Warhammer Community's Kill Team: Octarius Article wrote:Going forwards, we’re looking at ways we can make sure you don’t miss out on other awesome box sets too. So if, for instance, there was a sweet new Black Templars launch box on the horizon (just imagine that!) then that also sounds like the sort of box we’d want to make sure you could all get your hands on.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You may have seen during our codex road map last week that the Black Templars are on the way soon, with a brand new Emperor’s Champion leading the charge and some whispers on the wind of a launch box in the works.
So to whet your appetite, here’s the spectacular cover art for the upcoming Codex Supplement: Black Templars. Chain your bolter to your wrist and put your crusading pants on, we’re going smiting.*
True heirs of Sigismund may notice that the gentleman in the middle has distinctly black-and-red shoulder pads, which mark him out as one of the elite Sword Brethren. But doesn’t he also appear to be wearing the armour of a Primaris Space Marine? How curious.
The rumours have been circulating for a while now. But with the codex supplement announced on our road map and new cover art revealed, the fervent prayers of the faithful have been heard – the Black Templars are on their way.
What’s more, they’re bringing some shiny heretic-purging wargear with which to immolate anyone foolish enough to besmirch the glorious name of the God-Emperor. Behold the Primaris Initiate with pyreblaster!
Flamers are cool and all – if it’s possible for a weapon that sprays liquid fire to be ‘cool’ – but when it comes to delivering fiery death to the masses, the Black Templars prefer to dial it up to 11.
Spoiler:
It’s got a sturdier design and longer barrel than a traditional flamer, so the pyreblaster can hurl promethium-based annihilation with devastating force. Those wielding these weapons can make their blazing presence known from further away while searing through an enemy’s armour with even greater vim. If you like your heretic steak ‘well done’, look no further than this formidable weapon.
You might have noticed that the pyreblaster comes complete with a chain attaching it to the warrior’s wrist in the traditional manner of the Black Templars – perhaps that’s a hint at what else is on the way. Or maybe this particular chap is just prone to misplacing his belongings.
We’ll have more intel on what awaits you in the new Black Templars codex supplement – and anything else that may be accompanying it – as we near its release date.
It’s beautiful! It captures the feel and pose of the original and doesn’t overload it with too much bling. This is a perfect example of how to update a classic mini.
I think it should have either been closer to the pose of the original, or completely different. They’ve changed things slightly with the pose, and I think they all make it overall worse than the original, personally. It’s alright, but it was always gonna be hard to top the last one.
I knew it was only a matter of time before BT got their EC's revamped into plastic. I'm glad they kept the same style of helm as the original, though is it just me or do the lens seem more round? I would have preferred it if it was more sleek/slit like. Overall, not bad, but I feel I still like the OG sculpt more. Plastic is definitely a plus over finecast though.
I need another angle, the wrist in back looks too thin and the twist to the hand I odd. Plus is he leaning forward? the greaves look strange. I'm sure it's just because of the angle, but who know.
Not entirely sold on the chest plate being so plain. Think it could’ve done with some interesting detail.
IF they did anything on the chest plate then it would stop so many conversions or uses in armies besides the Black Templars. Here we will see some lovely freehand work from real artists....not me though.
grahamdbailey wrote: I concur with the consensus, I think the previous iterations were better. The chestplate, for example, is too unadorned ; its missing something.
The current Emperor's Champion has nothing on his chestplate as well, just a gold chain around his neck
grahamdbailey wrote: I concur with the consensus, I think the previous iterations were better. The chestplate, for example, is too unadorned ; its missing something.
The most internet thing ever: Claim a non-existent consensus to legitimize a purely subjective opinion.
There is no consensus. There is groupthink between you and the guy who actually had the original thought that you're parroting. Maybe that's what you meant?
By the way, based on the backpack, this is a Primaris Marine.
I would find it odd if THE iconic Black Templar model would not be able to ride in a Land Raider Crusader.
Do you think the backpack is just aesthetics? Or will we see Firstborn transports being able to carry Primaris? Or he is Primaris and has to take Primaris rides?
Top half of the sculpt is ace, let down by the lower half. The legs lack that slightly pointed style that the original has that made it seem more knightly, which is very strange because the detail shots show that they put that detail into the elbows. Tactical rock makes the whole thing seem a bit too "By the power of Greyskull".
Still a brilliant model, just fails to surpass the original
I would find it odd if THE iconic Black Templar model would not be able to ride in a Land Raider Crusader.
Do you think the backpack is just aesthetics? Or will we see Firstborn transports being able to carry Primaris? Or he is Primaris and has to take Primaris rides?
The leg armour too is indicative of being Primaris.
I dig it. It's a beautiful model. My only critique is... I wish they would have left the rosary around his neck to add a little detail to the open, flat chest plate.
I would find it odd if THE iconic Black Templar model would not be able to ride in a Land Raider Crusader.
Do you think the backpack is just aesthetics? Or will we see Firstborn transports being able to carry Primaris? Or he is Primaris and has to take Primaris rides?
I really wish they would get rid of primaris/non-primaris distinction in the rules. It can be fluff justification for some units having slightly better stats and different gear, but that's it.
I would find it odd if THE iconic Black Templar model would not be able to ride in a Land Raider Crusader.
Do you think the backpack is just aesthetics? Or will we see Firstborn transports being able to carry Primaris? Or he is Primaris and has to take Primaris rides?
He's definitely Primaris. I do not think we'll see a change in rules, so no Land Raider for him. The Black Templars book will be a supplement to the Space Marines Codex.
I immediately had the thought that the Armour of Faith is no longer the Armour of Faith. How could it be if the Emperor's Champion is now a Primaris Marine?
Times are changing for Space Marines... even though no one asked for it.
I thought there was more than one armor of faith? I know there's a story about an ork who captures the champion and then makes a suit of armor from the armor of faith.
So it's not as bad as the BT losing a single suit of armor passed down from generation to generation.
GaroRobe wrote: I thought there was more than one armor of faith? I know there's a story about an ork who captures the champion and then makes a suit of armor from the armor of faith.
So it's not as bad as the BT losing a single suit of armor passed down from generation to generation.
Every Black Templar Crusade got their own set of Champion relics. Even if it is not stated somewhere, that is how it must be, as BT are constantly crusading in smaller fleets.
And how else would you be able to fit out 10.000 marines?
By the way, in the Octarius preview GW teases a Black Templar army box.
Going forwards, we’re looking at ways we can make sure you don’t miss out on other awesome box sets too. So if, for instance, there was a sweet new Black Templars launch box on the horizon (just imagine that!) then that also sounds like the sort of box we’d want to make sure you could all get your hands on.
As someone who typically shakes my head at GW's often unnecessarily extravagant designs, blinged up equipment and daft poses, I'm somehow looking at the new model and thinking it's actually rather... boring.
Would have preferred the laurels to be part of the helm as per the older models. The last version (shown in the article) has a certain elegance to it with that pose. This one seems to have gone for the same effect but it's been marred by the obligatory tactical rock and general bulkiness.
It's not exactly bad, just looks like a fairly run of the mill kitbash.
Not a fan of this re-design, really. The post of the original version had a sense of nobility and chivalry to it, holding his sword aloft in a sort of casual yet proud way without showing off. The pose of the new one really has the usual problems of current designs, with it being obnoxiously emotive - the way he's holding the sword in combination with his stance gives it much more of an unreserved brash, boasting sort of feel, while the position of his legs and other arm at the same time make it feel quite busy and unsophisticated. Things can't just be a simple yet evocative pose anymore, everything has to have sort of forced feel' to it.
It's like it's gone from a believable in-universe pose showing a sense of honour for the Emperor's Chamption, to the sort of thing you'd get as a generic tone-deaf PVP video game's wacky obnoxious victory pose where everything needs to dramatically show off.
Mm yeah, if I was at all likely to collect Templars I'd be minded to rescue a finecast one and rescue the head, torso and sword blade then rebuild him using... Probably deathwatch arms and legs.
Well, it isn't any better than the already available current iteration bar being plastic and a bit bigger, if that sort of thing floats your boat.
I like the left hand with the beads as well... Erm, otherwise the older one is just a bit nicer overall I find.
The floaty papery bits and hover wreath do nothing for me tbh.
The floaty bits are terrible -- purity seals, laurels, etc. They ruin the weight of the model's pose and obfuscate its profile.
The pose isn't great either, as the left arm is at an odd, half-cocked angle. The relative position of the legs and arms places all of the weight on the model's right side.
Not a fan. Why not just rescale the current one into plastic? That Juan Diaz one is a masterpiece. The sword is at the wrong angle (complete with confusing Latin. "Light Emperor" makes no sense. At least "Emperor King" on the current one hits the ear right), the He-Man pose is not a scratch on the current one, where he looks like he's relentlessly coming for you and about to feth you up. Unnecessary ribbons all over him. The list goes on...
Something about primaris looks off to me; the fat ankles and awkward leg poses don't make for a good silhouette. I will always take little marines over these.
I think the flapping streamers mess with the silhouette too much for my liking, though that's in all likelihood less distracting when seeing the model as a 3D object and not a still image.
It's a nice model, but the pose is not as good as the old one. The old emperors champion is perfection apart from its scale.
Also the new one is holding his sword wrong, what's up with that? No skilled swordsman would ever hold his weapon that way, ever. It's an easy fix, but still....
a_typical_hero wrote: By the way, in the Octarius preview GW teases a Black Templar army box.
Going forwards, we’re looking at ways we can make sure you don’t miss out on other awesome box sets too. So if, for instance, there was a sweet new Black Templars launch box on the horizon (just imagine that!) then that also sounds like the sort of box we’d want to make sure you could all get your hands on.
HYPE
I saw this as well. Hype indeed.
Glad to see they Bumped my boy EC into Primaris. I was considering making my own conversion but now I don't have to. Would love to see some more new stuff for my BT boys, but if this is all the new we get in a new BT box, as long as it comes with Assault Intercessors, I'm in!
Tiberias wrote: It's a nice model, but the pose is not as good as the old one. The old emperors champion is perfection apart from its scale.
Also the new one is holding his sword wrong, what's up with that? No skilled swordsman would ever hold his weapon that way, ever. It's an easy fix, but still....
He's not holding his sword as if he's fighting, he's raising it in acknowledgement.
The best description I can give is that he's doing a Lion-o
Tiberias wrote: It's a nice model, but the pose is not as good as the old one. The old emperors champion is perfection apart from its scale.
Also the new one is holding his sword wrong, what's up with that? No skilled swordsman would ever hold his weapon that way, ever. It's an easy fix, but still....
He's not holding his sword as if he's fighting, he's raising it in acknowledgement.
The best description I can give is that he's doing a Lion-o
Ooof. That's definitely the worst model in the entire Primaris range. It's not unforgivably awful, but it's a huge step down from the last version. The ribbon work, tabbard and pose are just much worse than its predecessor.
Tiberias wrote: It's a nice model, but the pose is not as good as the old one. The old emperors champion is perfection apart from its scale.
Also the new one is holding his sword wrong, what's up with that? No skilled swordsman would ever hold his weapon that way, ever. It's an easy fix, but still....
He's not holding his sword as if he's fighting, he's raising it in acknowledgement.
The best description I can give is that he's doing a Lion-o
I'm sorry for being nitpicky on this, but even in such a scenario you wouldn't hold a sword that way. A sword handle is not round but oval shaped or has a rectangular cross section so you can always index the edge of the blade just by holding it in your hand. If you were to present the flat of your blade for whatever reason you'd turn your wrist, not just hold it wrong.
It's an easy fix on the model I know so it's not a big deal, but it really bothers me. Especially considering how perfect the pose one the old emperors champion is in comparison.
Also why do modern GW sculptors have such a weird relationship towards knees on their models? I have noticed this before on primaris lieutenants, but here it's also very noticeable: the knees kinda point inwards, making his stance look kind of awkward....why go for such a modeling choice?
Mentlegen324 wrote: Not a fan of this re-design, really. The post of the original version had a sense of nobility and chivalry to it, holding his sword aloft in a sort of casual yet proud way without showing off. The pose of the new one really has the usual problems of current designs, with it being obnoxiously emotive - the way he's holding the sword in combination with his stance gives it much more of an unreserved brash, boasting sort of feel, while the position of his legs and other arm at the same time make it feel quite busy and unsophisticated. Things can't just be a simple yet evocative pose anymore, everything has to have sort of forced feel' to it.
It's like it's gone from a believable in-universe pose showing a sense of honour for the Emperor's Chamption, to the sort of thing you'd get as a generic tone-deaf PVP video game's wacky obnoxious victory pose where everything needs to dramatically show off.
I agree, the new champion unfortunately is not a humble one.
Gonna need a 360 for a final assessment but the first impression is pretty good. The way he presents the flat of the blade irks me, though. I'll have to fix that.
So, when did GW retcon BT to be part of the imperial faith? (I played them in ages past but haven't paid much attention more recently... not a rhetorical question, was this new?)
grahamdbailey wrote: I concur with the consensus, I think the previous iterations were better. The chestplate, for example, is too unadorned ; its missing something.
The current Emperor's Champion has nothing on his chestplate as well, just a gold chain around his neck
spiralingcadaver wrote: So, when did GW retcon BT to be part of the imperial faith? (I played them in ages past but haven't paid much attention more recently... not a rhetorical question, was this new?)
BT revered the Emperor as a god already back in 3rd IIRC. If not in codex Armageddon, it was stated in their own codex in 4th edition.
It feels like he’s not presenting the sword, but the cross of the hilt, like he was warding off vampires.
Might be an interesting conversion to trim it down to just that, and put a different blade in his off-hand. Might make a nice judicar replacement. Rather a cross than an hourglass.
He has the sword turned sideways so the enemy can read it before he smites them. After all: all xeno scum can read high gothic, it's just common humans that cannot read it.
Previous 130 didn't count for some reason, i assume?
2, actually. One of which was limited to a Games Day and both are ~20 years old. Just don't post if you only want to spew some nonesense that you know is wrong?
Previous 130 didn't count for some reason, i assume?
2, actually. One of which was limited to a Games Day and both are ~20 years old. Just don't post if you only want to spew some nonesense that you know is wrong?
Previous 130 didn't count for some reason, i assume?
2, actually. One of which was limited to a Games Day and both are ~20 years old. Just don't post if you only want to spew some nonesense that you know is wrong?
Because you can't just... paint regular Marines black? For some reason?
a_typical_hero wrote: Of course you can, but that doesn't change the fact that the Emperor's Champion only had two official models since 20 years.
Are new Chaos Terminators a substitute for an official Abaddon model just because you could kitbash them to have a sword and a claw?
Is the new Ork boss in megaarmor a substitute for Ghaz?
I'd argue all of those are much more important and needed relases than a dude holding a sword for a subfaction of a subfaction of an already bloated faction.
Not the slam dunk I was hoping for, but still solid. The giant wreath hovering above the helm and the strange and mysterious movement of that ludicrously long loincloth are the main detractors for me.
Very excited to see what else they've cooked up for the BT.
So, if even the Emperor's Champion is being Primaris'd, does this put to bed the rumours that the 'first born' marines are going to be upscaled like the CSM and HH?
NightReconnaissance wrote: So, if even the Emperor's Champion is being Primaris'd, does this put to bed the rumours that the 'first born' marines are going to be upscaled like the CSM and HH?
Castellan Crowe is upscaled. But it might end up being a CSM and Grey Knight thing only.
a_typical_hero wrote: Of course you can, but that doesn't change the fact that the Emperor's Champion only had two official models since 20 years.
Are new Chaos Terminators a substitute for an official Abaddon model just because you could kitbash them to have a sword and a claw?
Is the new Ork boss in megaarmor a substitute for Ghaz?
I'd argue all of those are much more important and needed relases than a dude holding a sword for a subfaction of a subfaction of an already bloated faction.
While I get that people are not keen on seeing another space marine character, the emperors champion is as iconic a model as abaddon and ghaz. The original sculpt is legendary and has been around for decades. It's not fair to compare it to space marine lieutenant nr. 24 or newcomers like tor garadon.
NightReconnaissance wrote: So, if even the Emperor's Champion is being Primaris'd, does this put to bed the rumours that the 'first born' marines are going to be upscaled like the CSM and HH?
Castellan Crowe is upscaled. But it might end up being a CSM and Grey Knight thing only.
It could signal that GW made a change in creative direction, originally planning to squat the 'first born' but have changed their mind and there are still lots of models in the pipeline like this one from before that happened. That GW decided to remove all the variety and creativity of the old marines and their various marks of armour for the monotony of the Primaris was a very poor decision. (They came up with a silly justification for the Primaris, they couldn't come up with a silly explanation for why they'd have some variety in their armour?) And that's before we get into how poor the non-Intercessors look compared to their original rough equivalents (With the exception of the scouts) or how stupid it is that the CSM are now shorter than mainline marines.
They'll retcon or ignore everything else but the Primaris fluff is a hill they'll die on, everything must be made to be compliant with it even to the detriment of their products and hobby.
Nowhere in the article mentions he is a primaris and he is wearing relic armour, "The Armour of Faith", which would predate primaris.
My minor issues with it are the tabard and the pistol holster. The tabard over the belly looks weird, but that is likely just because of the paint job. The pistol holster is positioned for his right hand, in a cross draw, which is holding his sword. The holster should either be on the other side or face the other way for a left handed draw.
Tygre wrote: Nowhere in the article mentions he is a primaris and he is wearing relic armour, "The Armour of Faith", which would predate primaris.
You really think that this isn't a Primaris Marine? Even with the Primaris-style backpack, the hip armour and the knee pad flares?
To me that is a regular marine backpack, I noticed no real difference. Yes his mk6 legs now have flares over the knees. The Armour of Faith supposed to be a relic and artificer armour. Are you telling me that now only primaris can become the Emperors Champion. Or can it be either and GW gave some stylistic similarities to both first born and primaris so it would fit with the different styles.
Tygre wrote: Nowhere in the article mentions he is a primaris and he is wearing relic armour, "The Armour of Faith", which would predate primaris.
You really think that this isn't a Primaris Marine? Even with the Primaris-style backpack, the hip armour and the knee pad flares?
To me that is a regular marine backpack, I noticed no real difference. Yes his mk6 legs now have flares over the knees. The Armour of Faith supposed to be a relic and artificer armour. Are you telling me that now only primaris can become the Emperors Champion. Or can it be either and GW gave some stylistic similarities to both first born and primaris so it would fit with the different styles.
It can be either, yeah. There are more than one sets of Armour of Faith. This is a Primaris version.
No it wasn't. It was an Anniversary Limited Edition but released to all stores as both a blister and in the Heroes of the Imperium box.
My bad. I could have sworn it was GD exclusive. Mandela effect, huh. Never heard of the Heroes of the Imperium box before, despite being quite active from 3rd to 6th.
His backpack has the Primaris round bulge on the back, but lacks the Primaris armour plates on the vent nodules.
His legs are 100% Primaris, they have the hip plates, knee flares, ankle bulges, top of the foot plate.
His helmet lacks the Primaris ear plates.
To me, this looks like a Primaris with older armour marks integrated, no doubt to show off the relic-ness of the armour.
Pretty cool, it's great to see Primaris showing something other than plain, bland, Mk.X.
No it wasn't. It was an Anniversary Limited Edition but released to all stores as both a blister and in the Heroes of the Imperium box.
My bad. I could have sworn it was GD exclusive. Mandela effect, huh. Never heard of the Heroes of the Imperium box before, despite being quite active from 3rd to 6th.
Because you (presumably) live in Germany. That box was a USA exclusive, Europe (well certainly the UK) only got the anniversary blister.
Having had another look at this, something I find quite interesting about it is how it mixes Primaris and MkVII design cues in a way we've not seen before. There's some obvious Primaris stuff – the shape/design of the lower legs, the round plate on the back of the power pack – but some other stuff – the "ears" on the helmet, lack of raised gorget on the torso, the shape of the power pack vents and top section – are very old-school.
I want to see a 360 view before final judgment, but so far the model looks like a very expensive source of bits to me. I don't think I would have considered it inspiring if the old model didn't exist. In direct comparison, it boggles the mind that GW would consider the new one an adequate replacement.
Like, how hard can it be for a manager to go and say "this one, but bigger"? It's kind of hard to believe nobody was aware that the old one was a beloved and iconic sculpt and improving on it was going to be close to impossible.
ph34r wrote: Ok, is it just me or is the sword nowhere near straight, or even centered correctly?
That probably means the sword is tipped forward. Not that you can't get it wrong, but CAD sculpting is somewhat proof against accidentally building in unintended bends.
I'm gonna go against what most other people have been saying here – the previous one was a very cool sculpt in isolation, but in the context of the rest of the Space Marine range, always felt a bit slight and insubstantial to me, like, almost too elegant to be a Space Marine (arguably, that's Juan Diaz for you). This lad looks like he'd hit like a truck. And I say this as someone who would have largely much preferred to see Proper Marines get the same upscaling job the Chaos fellas got rather than Primaris Nonsense.
kirotheavenger wrote: His backpack has the Primaris round bulge on the back, but lacks the Primaris armour plates on the vent nodules.
His legs are 100% Primaris, they have the hip plates, knee flares, ankle bulges, top of the foot plate.
His helmet lacks the Primaris ear plates.
To me, this looks like a Primaris with older armour marks integrated, no doubt to show off the relic-ness of the armour.
Pretty cool, it's great to see Primaris showing something other than plain, bland, Mk.X.
Yeah, it's a mix. Cool concept. And as veteran intercessors are now a separate unit, I really wish they would do a dedicated veteran intercessor kit in this style, primaris armour mixed with the older elements. It could represent veterans that have undergone the Rubicon Primaris and decided to keep some of their old armour.
I much prefer primaris over the older models, but one thing I miss from the older line is the small differences that allow some personalisation; primaris are too uniform for my liking.
I just kit bash my primaris with the more recent classic scale power armoured stuff, 90% of the heads, shoulder pads, weapons and sticky on bling bling look just fine. You even get away with arms if you stick them on a little low in the shoulder joint and cover that with the shoulder pad. I'd like better chapter upgrade sets like the old dark angel veteran and black templar chapter upgrade sets over having too much more bling on the basic kits though, they're expensive enough as it is
Billicus wrote: I just kit bash my primaris with the more recent classic scale power armoured stuff, 90% of the heads, shoulder pads, weapons and sticky on bling bling look just fine. You even get away with arms if you stick them on a little low in the shoulder joint and cover that with the shoulder pad. I'd like better chapter upgrade sets like the old dark angel veteran and black templar chapter upgrade sets over having too much more bling on the basic kits though, they're expensive enough as it is
Yeah, I do that as well and it works fine. Still, I wouldn't mind that variety being built in. The chests in particular are a bit of a hassle, as they're all identical and customising them takes more than a simple kitbash. I often shave the eagle off and glue various bits, but I would certainly welcome some variant primaris chest pieces!
Previous 130 didn't count for some reason, i assume?
2, actually. One of which was limited to a Games Day and both are ~20 years old. Just don't post if you only want to spew some nonesense that you know is wrong?
Also, look at who you are responding to.
A woosh moment...
But i'm excited, it's been 15+ years since the BT had had a new model.
Previous 130 didn't count for some reason, i assume?
2, actually. One of which was limited to a Games Day and both are ~20 years old. Just don't post if you only want to spew some nonesense that you know is wrong?
Also, look at who you are responding to.
A woosh moment...
But i'm excited, it's been 15+ years since the BT had had a new model.
Is there a chance that they would do a squad Grimaldis? Would a Unit of Characters work? Cause that might interest me given my love for the book.
I foresee them updating Helbrecht, maybe Grimaldus as well...rumors were floating around about a BT specific Ancient. Seems like a load of new models and we've never seen this kind of primaris release outside of the basic models. I would love a new crusader squad...but I shall not be too greedy.
Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.
Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.
Kanluwen wrote: Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.
It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.
I mean I'd be crazy happy with that. Primaris Crusade squads would be fantastic.
The reason I said "Initiates" is that Scouts are due an update and I could see Black Templars actually getting a unique "Initiate" unit in lieu of just using Scouts which could come later with a Kill Team set.
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
Marshal Loss wrote: New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.
I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.
rybackstun wrote: Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.
Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.
They survive it if GW writes it
GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote: Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.
It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.
And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)
rybackstun wrote: Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.
Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.
They survive it if GW writes it
GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote: Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.
It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.
And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)
Hexfire is a battlebox though, where mostly always just a new character is included (like Tooth & Claw, Wraith something, or even before Primaris the Baal box, etc), whereas a launch box like the SoB, Lumineth, Beastsnaggas has only new models.
rybackstun wrote: Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.
Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.
They survive it if GW writes it
GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.
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Kanluwen wrote: Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.
It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.
And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)
Sorry to nitpick but the grey knights are in a battle box (there's been many all of which are old models with new characters as I'm sure you're aware, like the prophecy of the wolf box for example), a launch box or early release box is more like the beast snaggas box, or lumineth and again with sisters in recent years.
Tygre wrote: Nowhere in the article mentions he is a primaris and he is wearing relic armour, "The Armour of Faith", which would predate primaris.
Except Armour of Faith was always quickly adjustable plate (it can't be custom fitted due to random, temporary owners). That's why it has straps. It has to go over whatever armour frame the chosen marine has, and modifying it to fit primaris one was probably pretty easy, seeing Mk X is the most modular and adaptable SM mark produced so far.
The pistol holster is positioned for his right hand, in a cross draw, which is holding his sword. The holster should either be on the other side or face the other way for a left handed draw.
Not really. He can draw it with his left hand just fine if he rotates his wrist. And holster on the back of hip makes a lot of sense because it can't be hit from the front damaging the gun (or worse, exploding ammunition right into weak hip joint) when the owner is advancing, or it can't be caught on dumb wrist chain, etc. New holster is better positioned than old one considering EC main job and primary role.
I’m not massively au fait on Black Templar lore but looking at the various wikis, it seems like the Armour of Faith isn’t one specific suit of armour anyway, it’s more a name they give the artificer armour worn by the Emperors Champion after it’s been blessed and consecrated and inscribed with whatever wards they use and stuff.
Marshal Loss wrote: New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.
The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.
I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.
I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.
Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.
Marshal Loss wrote: New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.
The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.
I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.
I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.
Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.
The Lieutenants are exactly that however, they have a specific load out but are functionally no different, the nearest are death company intercessors and hounds of morkai as you note, but are just "standard primaris unit with bits on".
If sword brethren get a bespoke kit and unit profile that isn't just "blade guard but black and maybe without shield", then it's setting a new precedent for units like primaris sanguinary guard, or wulfen etc. to get kits in the future.
Marshal Loss wrote: New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.
The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.
The Neophyte rumours have been worded differently all over the place, but the SB ones are consistent: it is a full dedicated kit, not an existing kit packaged with an upgrade sprue, per those that have seen the models. No rumour mongers billed the Morkai as a "dedicated kit", that's just GW's advertising. AFAIK we have no concrete information on the Crusaders or what the vehicle upgrade sprue contains at this stage.
It's pretty obvious that this is the first chapter-specific Primaris release of significant scale, so comparisons with existing supplements are probably going to fall short of the mark. In any case, we'll see soon enough.
Could we get some recap on the scout/neophyte rumours? Because those are definitely something that would need new models, the old ones are pretty much unusable.
I am also really interest to see what the sword brethren will look like, if the rumour turn out to be true. I have some unfinished blade guards on my work bench, but perhaps I will wait for this new kit to see if it is something these could be kitbashed with.
The new EC model gets goofier the longer you look at it.
He holds the sword like it's a crucifix instead of like, you know, a sword. He's not giving a sermon, he's supposed to be challenging the enemy's Big Bad.
The breastplate is oddly short and very plain. There's nothing there to break up the empty space, where the old one had the necklace.
The pistol is set up for crossdraw with the sword hand. And while he COULD in theory draw with his left hand it would be awkward as hell. If they wanted the pistol to be rigged for crossdraw it should be farther to the right on his back or on his right hip (like on the old model)
The tabard looks all weird and angular on his abdomen and then winds around his leg all goofy-like.
He's supposed to have an iron halo... Iron halo is a backpack-mounted projector, not a helmet bling. It's also sticking up in a dopey fashion. It looks more or less right because he's tucking his chin in, but if his head is at a normal angle looking forward, the wreath would stick up in the air like a pair of horns.
His lower legs look MASSIVE, and make his arms look weedy.
The shoulder pads are plain, without the ridges that the ECs always had, another miss.
I actually liked the old champ. He looked purposeful and menacing and struck just the right balance between being special but also having plainer armor in BT's tradition. Shame they didn't do him justice with the update.
Marshal Loss wrote: New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.
The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.
I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.
I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.
Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.
The Lieutenants are exactly that however, they have a specific load out but are functionally no different, the nearest are death company intercessors and hounds of morkai as you note, but are just "standard primaris unit with bits on".
If sword brethren get a bespoke kit and unit profile that isn't just "blade guard but black and maybe without shield", then it's setting a new precedent for units like primaris sanguinary guard, or wulfen etc. to get kits in the future.
Marshal Loss wrote: New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.
Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.
The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.
I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.
I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.
Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.
The Lieutenants are exactly that however, they have a specific load out but are functionally no different, the nearest are death company intercessors and hounds of morkai as you note, but are just "standard primaris unit with bits on".
If sword brethren get a bespoke kit and unit profile that isn't just "blade guard but black and maybe without shield", then it's setting a new precedent for units like primaris sanguinary guard, or wulfen etc. to get kits in the future.
What about Victrix Guard?
they came with a character so people tend to discount them. a flunky that accompanies a character is a bit differant from say a seperate box of that unit.
that said my guess is from the rumors we'll see new scouts, a mixed scout/assault marine unit, and a chapter specific unit in sword brethren.. which may yes just be a boix of something that already exists with an upgrade sprue, we'll have to wait and see, new scouts is pretty big news IMHO
New scout models would be bigger news if their rules weren’t a flaming dumpster fire. I’ve enjoyed playing scouts for my entire 40k career, but what 9th did to their rules was bad.
Would adding them to crusade squads make them viable? It would at least put them back as troops (I assume) and out of the elite slot. But they are not cheep wounds for the squad anymore. Sure, they might be less points per model, but half the wounds. They would give you some flavorful weapon options in the tac squad.
Not going to argue that the scouts don’t need a redo. They are old and badly sculpted. (Snipers aren’t horrible, but the regular guys most defiantly are) If done as a Kill Team release, I could see it. But for 40k, they are going to go straight from the factory to collecting dust on shelves.
rybackstun wrote: Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.
Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.
They survive it if GW writes it
GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote: Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.
It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.
And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)
2 Counterpoints: 1. Obviously, not a launch box. 2. How many new models did the Adepta Sororitas Launch Box have? Or the Beast Snaggas?
Nevelon wrote: New scout models would be bigger news if their rules weren’t a flaming dumpster fire. I’ve enjoyed playing scouts for my entire 40k career, but what 9th did to their rules was bad.
Would adding them to crusade squads make them viable? It would at least put them back as troops (I assume) and out of the elite slot. But they are not cheep wounds for the squad anymore. Sure, they might be less points per model, but half the wounds. They would give you some flavorful weapon options in the tac squad.
Not going to argue that the scouts don’t need a redo. They are old and badly sculpted. (Snipers aren’t horrible, but the regular guys most defiantly are) If done as a Kill Team release, I could see it. But for 40k, they are going to go straight from the factory to collecting dust on shelves.
I can't see this happening. If they release scouts they are going to be some kind of primaris scouts. Like scouts but different.
It would be a first that they rework an excisting SM unit and not making a new one which is similar.
The whole Primaris bit doesn't come into play with Scouts. Scouts are still a thing in all-Primaris Chapters. They just have "big brothers" in the form of the Vanguard Company which is also part of the 10th in codex chapters.
That all said, Primaris based Initiates and Neophytes for BT could easily be worked up using Phobos and Tacitus gear since the main power armor for the Primaris is a modular system.
Kanluwen wrote: The whole Primaris bit doesn't come into play with Scouts. Scouts are still a thing in all-Primaris Chapters. They just have "big brothers" in the form of the Vanguard Company which is also part of the 10th in codex chapters.
That all said, Primaris based Initiates and Neophytes for BT could easily be worked up using Phobos and Tacitus gear since the main power armor for the Primaris is a modular system.
While this is true. Primaris are a rework of the SM line and I would be really surprised if they take over the scouts as they are now. I think that, like all Primaris kits, they're going to be some kind of re-imagination of the old scouts.
Kanluwen wrote: The whole Primaris bit doesn't come into play with Scouts. Scouts are still a thing in all-Primaris Chapters. They just have "big brothers" in the form of the Vanguard Company which is also part of the 10th in codex chapters.
I don't really see why GW wouldn't differentiate between primaris and non-primaris scouts if a new kit is being released. That has been their tactic the whole time.
That all said, Primaris based Initiates and Neophytes for BT could easily be worked up using Phobos and Tacitus gear since the main power armor for the Primaris is a modular system.
Well, the rumour said that neophytes would have two wounds and attacks like all primaris. And can take shotguns. I suspect they will have scout armour, but that was not mentioned.
Don't forget that there were two mentions of Neophytes...
One of a dedicated 3 model kit and one of a Primaris upgrade frame "including an arm holding a helmet and a shotgun arm".
Truthfully, I don't know what all to expect. The big rumor dump seemed to point towards a dedicated unit rather than them just redoing the whole "Neophytes=Scouts 100%" thing.
Game mechanics/models, phobos armor has pretty much replaced scouts 100%.
From a lore POV, is the black carapace still the last step of implants? If that happens after those new fangled primaris implants, we would still have primaris scouts, with all the perks barring power armor.
The biggest thing to note is that the three Primaris organs aren't really "visible distinctions" and can be implanted at any point during a Marine's career. The visibility part might explain why the rumor is a 3 model Neophytes box I guess, putting them as a unit upgrade or optional bit rather than mandatory?
This simple conversion (it's photoshop, but easily convertible) really makes me dislike the new EC model.
Like, with a better body, it's 100x better
And for the benefit of us who don't have Instagram?
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Kabewski's Hobby Idea 35: Primaris Emperor's Champion!
So this is some thing I've made my self using the indomitus Chaplain and the Resin Emperor's Champion, but you can use the upcoming plastic Emperor's Champion to make this.
This is in case you didn't like the new one and want something more gothic and ornate.
Other options to make Primaris Emperor's Champions are the normal Primaris Chaplain, the Dark Angels lieutenant and the primaris librarian!
Nevelon wrote: Game mechanics/models, phobos armor has pretty much replaced scouts 100%.
From a lore POV, is the black carapace still the last step of implants? If that happens after those new fangled primaris implants, we would still have primaris scouts, with all the perks barring power armor.
yes scouts are still a thing,. the 8.5 marine codex lays it out real nicely. if you don't have it see if you can find someone you know with it, from a Lore POV the 8.5 marine codex was one of the better ones. the 9E codices are, lore wise a MAJOR step back
Nevelon wrote: Game mechanics/models, phobos armor has pretty much replaced scouts 100%.
From a lore POV, is the black carapace still the last step of implants? If that happens after those new fangled primaris implants, we would still have primaris scouts, with all the perks barring power armor.
yes scouts are still a thing,. the 8.5 marine codex lays it out real nicely. if you don't have it see if you can find someone you know with it, from a Lore POV the 8.5 marine codex was one of the better ones. the 9E codices are, lore wise a MAJOR step back
I have the codex, but don’t read all the BL stuff that’s been churned out. As fluff is often overridden and conflicting, I thought I’d doublecheck.
"True heirs of Sigismund may notice that the gentleman in the middle has distinctly black-and-red shoulder pads, which mark him out as one of the elite Sword Brethren. But doesn’t he also appear to be wearing the armour of a Primaris Space Marine? How curious."
a_typical_hero wrote: I really don't like the art. The Castellan's head seems out of place.
Bummer.
Maybe that's actually a neophyte standing on another's shoulders, in one suit of power armour? He's got really tiny arms compared to his torso and legs, too. Ugh, that pic is really a mess :|
According to Valrak on YouTube, the release box for Templars is including a Marshal, Emp's Champ, Redemptor and a Crusader Squad with 6 Initiates and 4 Neophytes.
If they price that at £125, there might be a few disgruntled voices but you do get a Ltd Edition codex out of it.
Cover seems to confirm several items from the rumor dump such as the primaris sword brethren, the initiates and their armaments, and the neophytes. Looking forward to this!
I'm rather hyped and I just want to see the models! (When are they gonna show us the models?) I don't collect Black Templars, but it seems like this might be a good amount of cool primaris stuff to kitbash with other kits.
The marine on the right of the picture, there's no exhaust vents on the back pack. It's not that clear but it looks a little like the existing scouts weird triangular back. The armour looks lighter like phobos, but the gun theyre holding isn't either of the carbines used by infs or incs. nor does it look like any of the bolt rifles?
Abaddon303 wrote: The marine on the right of the picture, there's no exhaust vents on the back pack. It's not that clear but it looks a little like the existing scouts weird triangular back. The armour looks lighter like phobos, but the gun theyre holding isn't either of the carbines used by infs or incs. nor does it look like any of the bolt rifles?
I agree, it also seems to have a reiver style face plate on the lower part of the face (not necessarily a skull like plate), but the upper is either hair or a hood. Interesting.
GaroRobe wrote: Can anyone tell if the flag in the back matches the rumor engine skeleton with the "W"? I keep flip-flopping on whether it matches or not
Arbitrator wrote: Something about the chap in focus just looks really... off. I can't tell if his head just looks tiny or what.
Yeah. Like most 9th edition covers so far, it doesn't particularly make me want to crusade. More just point and laugh.
The centerpiece guy is egregiously mis-proportioned, though.
GaroRobe wrote: Can anyone tell if the flag in the back matches the rumor engine skeleton with the "W"? I keep flip-flopping on whether it matches or not
Seems so, doesn't it? Here, for reference
Huh yeah, W for 'Witch' maybe?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Absolute peak of Space Marine proportions
Agreed 100%, that's certainly the Primaris of Necks if I ever saw one.
Marshal Loss wrote: Love it. Looks like regular Monday updates for BT as well, so hopefully Crusaders/SB next week.
Nope. Sunday's pre-order announcement will be for the Stormcast Eternals and Orruk Warclans battletomes as GW confirmed them for an August pre-order back near the release of Dominion.
Marshal Loss wrote: Love it. Looks like regular Monday updates for BT as well, so hopefully Crusaders/SB next week.
Nope. Sunday's pre-order announcement will be for the Stormcast Eternals and Orruk Warclans battletomes as GW confirmed them for an August pre-order back near the release of Dominion.
I think Marshall meant Crusaders/SB for the Monday update, not for pre-orders.
Man, I'm so nervous about this. I've waited since the beginning of me being in this hobby for any kind of lovin' for the Templars and...
...like I guess I'm cautiously optimistic about an upgrade sprue/transfers? Templars don't have any transfers available RN, other than on the 30k fists one, which is less than ideal, and as much as I love the current plastic upgrade (I'd love if GW could just stop retiring things), I think some new bits in crisper cut plastic would be great too (and rather selfishly I have plenty of the current bits in my bits box). But at the same time, while part of me was looking forward to de-embiggening some primaris marines into proper marines, the Emperor's Champion(I'd maybe??? steal the head, and the hands, but there's nothing else really there that's enviable, he doesn't even have purity seals)? This codex cover with bikeshorts chaplain-helmets-but-not-chaplains as neophytes? Sword Brother Giraffe-stein-ius? It doesn't fill me with a ton of confidence about how they're gonna treat my boys, the best chapter in 40k.
I want, with like, 6? 7? years of longing, for this to be a banging release, to see some kickass new bits and details, maybe a new character, and lord knows how much I wanted for a unique unit, or for Sword Brethren to be a thing other than just "here's a box of squad leaders have fun", or a way to make scouts and neophytes a bit less visually dry and more medieval. I fear that after all my waiting, I might be left high and dry, and that sucks man. GW, please prove me wrong.
Marshal Loss wrote: Love it. Looks like regular Monday updates for BT as well, so hopefully Crusaders/SB next week.
Nope. Sunday's pre-order announcement will be for the Stormcast Eternals and Orruk Warclans battletomes as GW confirmed them for an August pre-order back near the release of Dominion.
I think Marshall meant Crusaders/SB for the Monday update, not for pre-orders.
posermcbogus wrote: Man, I'm so nervous about this. I've waited since the beginning of me being in this hobby for any kind of lovin' for the Templars and...
...like I guess I'm cautiously optimistic about an upgrade sprue/transfers? Templars don't have any transfers available RN, other than on the 30k fists one, which is less than ideal, and as much as I love the current plastic upgrade (I'd love if GW could just stop retiring things), I think some new bits in crisper cut plastic would be great too (and rather selfishly I have plenty of the current bits in my bits box).
But at the same time, while part of me was looking forward to de-embiggening some primaris marines into proper marines, the Emperor's Champion(I'd maybe??? steal the head, and the hands, but there's nothing else really there that's enviable, he doesn't even have purity seals)? This codex cover with bikeshorts chaplain-helmets-but-not-chaplains as neophytes? Sword Brother Giraffe-stein-ius? It doesn't fill me with a ton of confidence about how they're gonna treat my boys, the best chapter in 40k.
I want, with like, 6? 7? years of longing, for this to be a banging release, to see some kickass new bits and details, maybe a new character, and lord knows how much I wanted for a unique unit, or for Sword Brethren to be a thing other than just "here's a box of squad leaders have fun", or a way to make scouts and neophytes a bit less visually dry and more medieval. I fear that after all my waiting, I might be left high and dry, and that sucks man. GW, please prove me wrong.
If you don't like Primaris and think of this release as a means of getting new bits, I expect there won't be much point in any of the actual kits for you. They'll be all Primaris with steep price tags. Might be cool stuff in there, but you'll probably be looking at bits sellers here. Considering Templars will have access to the regular Primaris kits, I hope there will be an upgrade sprue for them like other chapters have in addition to their unique units, though. Would be weird if there wasn't unless Crusaders/Sword Brethren have extra bits in the kits that are meant to be used for other models. I could see GW do that, as they may believe locking shoulder pads in more expensive kits might make them more money. We'll see soon enough, I guess.
On the bright side, I don't think the codex cover art has any bearing on the quality of the models, so there's that.
Geifer wrote: On the bright side, I don't think the codex cover art has any bearing on the quality of the models, so there's that.
Other than Marshall Extenta Faucium, what's wrong with the cover art?
Not a whole lot, I think. Someone said Cap'n Longneck also has scrawny arms, and posermcbogus doesn't seem to be a fan of Phobos armor for Neophytes. I don't remember anything else standing out.
So it seems that the rumours about the new flamer and more importantly the dedicated primaris crusader kit were true. Probably the rest is true as well then. Too bad they didn't show any more models. How long they're gonna drag this out?
Yeah, why add actual options to subfactions so they aren't just some special rules and Characters? /s
This looks to be shaping up like a good supplement IMO.
Crimson wrote: Too bad they didn't show any more models. How long they're gonna drag this out?
They've been showing a single new model every Monday for a while now. The rest will probably come in a studio preview, probably at Gencon if not before.
Gert wrote: Yeah, why add actual options to subfactions so they aren't just some special rules and Characters? /s
This looks to be shaping up like a good supplement IMO.
Hopefully the other supplements will see something similar. Even if it's just weapon options via upgrade sprues or whatever.
But on the other hand, it's good because it means that we don't have a weird situation where there's a Marine unit not in the Marine Codex, necessitating a whole series of slow updates to all the other armies (ala the Psychic Awakening books, that contained tons of reprints of just the same Datasheets for each flavour of Marines).
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If they are all meant to be primaris, the flamer in the background right is quite interesting
Gert wrote: Yeah, why add actual options to subfactions so they aren't just some special rules and Characters? /
Probably, because that's how it goes for every single subfaction for every single faction that's not Marines. And probably because every relase spent further bloating out Marines is a relase not spent updating Eldar.
Kanluwen wrote: Hopefully the other supplements will see something similar. Even if it's just weapon options via upgrade sprues or whatever.
I'm of two minds where I don't want to see more Space Marines but at the same time, I also want to see the subfactions expanded out beyond single Characters.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Probably, because that's how it goes for every single subfaction for every single faction that's not Marines. And probably because every relase spent further bloating out Marines is a relase not spent updating Eldar.
Just get resigned to the fact that Craftworlds aren't getting an update. It makes your life easier.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Why do they keep having Marines hold the weapon by the carry handle or have top mounted grips when they have a handguard modeled on the weapon?
Why do Primaris bolt weapons all have the 41st millennium equivalent of a picatinny rail yet insist on mounting nothing on them?
Gert wrote: Every other Chapter uses the term interchangeably for Scouts/recruits IIRC.
Most other Chapters do, but the Templar are odd ducks and use Initiate for their Battle Brothers, since they have been initiated into them and Neophyte for the new guys.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Why do they keep having Marines hold the weapon by the carry handle or have top mounted grips when they have a handguard modeled on the weapon?
Why do Primaris bolt weapons all have the 41st millennium equivalent of a picatinny rail yet insist on mounting nothing on them?
No one in GW has ever used or held a weapon? Also, theres like 2 weapons with stuff on them, but they go on that weird round part of the gun for some reason.
Albertorius wrote: How many variants of flamer are in the game, by now? These kinda bespoke weapon craze leaves me very, very cold, ironically enough in this case.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Why do they keep having Marines hold the weapon by the carry handle or have top mounted grips when they have a handguard modeled on the weapon?
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Why do they keep having Marines hold the weapon by the carry handle or have top mounted grips when they have a handguard modeled on the weapon?
Why do they always have to have this bit as well?
I've been wondering about that as well. It looks cool, but I really cannot imagine what its function could be as it is found on so many completely different weapons.
Love the model. Worth noting that the stats on that flamer correspond to the major leak we recently (with the Chaos Chosen, Squats, etc), so that's another point in its favour.
On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
Makes the Primaris models feel even more extra special or something?
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
I think I still have my 2nd Ed 'cut from White Dwarf and stuck on cereal box card' double flamer template for the Exorcist at home.
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
Hellhounds already have a 16" range - probably the rationale is that it's twice the range of a (then-) normal 8" flamer. Next codex it'll probably pop up to 24".
Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Also the name of the Big Marines' Big Flamer is silly.
Voss wrote: What is the rationale for the chained weapons?
It seems insane, as it would only be a detriment: limiting mobility, fouling shots, dragging at the arm (especially in close combat), etc.
Excuse me while I put on my cool nerd fact hat.
So! There are 2 kinds of chains the Black Templars use, I forget the names but...
The most common is a symbolic thing. Before battle you chain you weapons to yourself, and when the battle is over, you take them off. It's a ceremonial/symbolic thing.
It goes back to before the Heresy. The founder of the Black Templars, Sigismund iirc, was either originally a World Eater, or hung out with the World Eaters a lot. He was a real cool dude who wasn't afraid of nothing, and they asked him to join, but he said no and went off to join/carried on being one of the Imperial Fists, founding the Templar Brethren. He took with him the World Eaters tradition of chaining your weapons to your wrists because the World Eaters are maniacs like that.
The second, slightly rarer chain is much more hardcore. It's a vow a Templar takes where they never remove the weapon chained to them, and carry it until they die. Again, symbolic, but much more permanent. I think this one is usually like a pennance thing but I don't have my old codex on this side of the planet.
The White Dwarf design notes accompanying the 4th edition codex said that the chained weapons was symbolic of the Templars not laying down their weapons until their crusade is ended or they meet their death.
Similarly the prevalence of lanterns on Templar models represents them bringing the Emperor's light to the galaxy.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Also the name of the Big Marines' Big Flamer is silly.
Not to be wierd but what did you expect?
that Normal marine Heavy flamers become initially decent enough to force you NOT to buy the new and improved primaris nounverb?
I mean, unlike the cover art, this ones neck isn't long though so there's that
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Also the name of the Big Marines' Big Flamer is silly.
Not to be wierd but what did you expect?
that Normal marine Heavy flamers become initially decent enough to force you NOT to buy the new and improved primaris nounverb?
I mean, unlike the cover art, this ones neck isn't long though so there's that
Sigismund was First Captain of the Imperial Fists Legion and fought in the World Eaters Gladiator Cages, as did Nassir Amit, the Flesh Tearer, and IIRC Sevatar. In fact, Amir and Kharn were good friends and often fought together in the arena while chained together.
The Gladiators of Nuceria would chain their weapons to their wrists, a traditional the World Eaters continued. Sigismund saw its worth and applied it to the Templars when they were founded.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Never thought i'd live to see the day where the return of Squats is plausible.
Then again, i never thought i'd live to see plastic DKoK either.
For all the gak GW is getting, this is really something to applaud. They keep reviving things from the past like GSC, Sisters, Zoats, the Ambull etc, even if it's just a single model for a specialist game.
I still don't see squats as an army, but maybe a Killteam or as Tau auxiliaries. Whatever it will be, the one thing keeping me engaged is the knowledge that pretty much anything can happen at this point (Kroots now!)
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Some want to play with 7 feet space marines rather than 8 feet. Wouldn't fit fur campaign for example as timeline doesn't match. No primaris yet around.
You know for some people fluff matters more than latest op junk
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Some want to play with 7 feet space marines rather than 8 feet. Wouldn't fit fur campaign for example as timeline doesn't match. No primaris yet around.
You know for some people fluff matters more than latest op junk
If they cared more for the fluff than the latest op junk and were running a timeline set pre-primaris, they would have absolutely 0 interest in using a primaris unit with a newly invented weapon anyways...
Some want to play with 7 feet space marines rather than 8 feet.
And that's the primaris. Old models are six feet marines as they're same height as GW's normal humans.
Cadian/skitarii/cultist: about 32mm
Primaris marine: about 38mm
If we assume 32mm human model to represent about 180 cm tall person, then 38mm primaris marine would be about 215 cm i.e. seven feet. (Do the math.)
And don't bring up the Custodians again. they're fringe faction and furthermore there really isn't a reason to assume that they're much taller than seven feet either.
I hope this has now been conclusively covered now and you can stop incessantly bringing it up.
I find that Templar a bit meh.Basic Mk.X Marine as is to be expected, but he could have used a little more decoration. He doesn't need to look like a Chirstmas tree, but a little more adornment to counteract the inherent tacticool look of Primaris wouldn't go amiss. Maybe there are optional bits on the sprue like purity seals and other things that got revved from the old upgrade sprue and this will be a moot point, but from what's shown I'm not particularly happy with the Initiate. And the flamer is pure junk, but that's Primaris weapons for you.
BertBert wrote: For all the gak GW is getting, this is really something to applaud. They keep reviving things from the past like GSC, Sisters, Zoats, the Ambull etc, even if it's just a single model for a specialist game.
True, though Sisters really don't belong in that list. GW never actually stopped selling the metal range until the plastic range was ready for release, and rules were mostly updated to the latest edition.
That said, I'm willing to believe that their plastic update was partially enabled by GW's newfound faith in its Eighties and Nineties designs.
BertBert wrote: I still don't see squats as an army, but maybe a Killteam or as Tau auxiliaries. Whatever it will be, the one thing keeping me engaged is the knowledge that pretty much anything can happen at this point (Kroots now!)
It really depends on how ambitious GW is willing to be. AoS has seen a lot of truly new factions, some with bigger, some with smaller ranges. Getting a Squat Kill Team at all is a great start, but it doesn't actually take much more to allow people to fill the mandatory slots of a FOC and at least make an allied force. And considering how Genestealers and Mechanicus were built up over several waves and years, Suqats might actually be the next army to get that treatment.
Geifer wrote: I find that Templar a bit meh.Basic Mk.X Marine as is to be expected, but he could have used a little more decoration. He doesn't need to look like a Chirstmas tree, but a little more adornment to counteract the inherent tacticool look of Primaris wouldn't go amiss. Maybe there are optional bits on the sprue like purity seals and other things that got revved from the old upgrade sprue and this will be a moot point, but from what's shown I'm not particularly happy with the Initiate.
I think the rumour said that there would be separate Sword Brethren kit too, so presumably they will look more extra. But I just want to see all the new models so I can make a proper judgement. I really wish there is a great variety of bits. Primaris marines generally look cool, but sameyness is their big weakness. I really hope they break away from that with this release.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Oh man. I'm so sorry. So sorry that I've posted an opinion you don't agree with. You are right, and I was foolish and wrong.
I'm sorry that I'm posting an opinion about the upcoming black templars release, in the black templars thread. I'm sorry I voiced some disappointment. I'm sorry that I spent years painstakingly learning to model and convert black templars, because GW wouldn't make more of their own. I'm sorry for that enthusiasm and passion. I'm sorry that I waited with baited breath for a new character, or campaign, or even just some extra fluff, a battle report, dared to even dream of a new transfer sheet, for YEARS. I'm sorry the last time my chapter got any love was back at the end of 7th, and we only got a bit of artwork showing us hanging out with xenos, and a formation to use for like 3 weeks before 8th dropped. Your snarky remarks about how pointless it is that I have a large army already, and don't want to re-buy stuff because big marines are only allowed to ride in big cars, and never be backwards compatible with anything has made me see the light. My opinions are pointless, I am just a hater, I should just toss all of my existing minis, and shut up and buy primaris like a good boy, because nothing retro is ever of value, and opinions like mine should be ban worthy. Thank you so much for behaving like a mod and telling Tevna and I to move on after you got your parting shot in, you really are an asset to this community.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Oh man. I'm so sorry. So sorry that I've posted an opinion you don't agree with. You are right, and I was foolish and wrong.
I'm sorry that I'm posting an opinion about the upcoming black templars release, in the black templars thread. I'm sorry I voiced some disappointment. I'm sorry that I spent years painstakingly learning to model and convert black templars, because GW wouldn't make more of their own. I'm sorry for that enthusiasm and passion. I'm sorry that I waited with baited breath for a new character, or campaign, or even just some extra fluff, a battle report, dared to even dream of a new transfer sheet, for YEARS. I'm sorry the last time my chapter got any love was back at the end of 7th, and we only got a bit of artwork showing us hanging out with xenos, and a formation to use for like 3 weeks before 8th dropped. Your snarky remarks about how pointless it is that I have a large army already, and don't want to re-buy stuff because big marines are only allowed to ride in big cars, and never be backwards compatible with anything has made me see the light. My opinions are pointless, I am just a hater, I should just toss all of my existing minis, and shut up and buy primaris like a good boy, because nothing retro is ever of value, and opinions like mine should be ban worthy. Thank you so much for behaving like a mod and telling Tevna and I to move on after you got your parting shot in, you really are an asset to this community.
You're entitled to an opinion and shouldn't be degraded (despite doing the exact same in return), but simultaneously they gave you exactly what you wanted - exciting new cool black templar models so you don't need to convert any more of your own. You can't then complain they gave you the wrong new minis just because you don't want to buy something.
Whilst I may have been unnecessarily snarky, it was a genuine suggestion. Space marines are primaris now. That's the reality. Tilting at that windmill is not gonna get anyone anywhere.
Ultimately they're space marine models that look pretty good, and these new BT ones are bound to be more knightly and less tacticool. And that was the common complaint about the primaris. Some people preferred to old more knightly look over the sleek tacticool look. But now you can have that too.
I found the complaints about BT getting unique units to be funny. Wasn't one of the biggest Primaris gripes that SM all looked the same (which they did anyway BTW)? Now there are distinct units for subfactions and people are complaining.
I'd say make up your mind but alas the Internet is the Internet after all.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Oh man. I'm so sorry. So sorry that I've posted an opinion you don't agree with. You are right, and I was foolish and wrong.
I'm sorry that I'm posting an opinion about the upcoming black templars release, in the black templars thread. I'm sorry I voiced some disappointment. I'm sorry that I spent years painstakingly learning to model and convert black templars, because GW wouldn't make more of their own. I'm sorry for that enthusiasm and passion. I'm sorry that I waited with baited breath for a new character, or campaign, or even just some extra fluff, a battle report, dared to even dream of a new transfer sheet, for YEARS. I'm sorry the last time my chapter got any love was back at the end of 7th, and we only got a bit of artwork showing us hanging out with xenos, and a formation to use for like 3 weeks before 8th dropped. Your snarky remarks about how pointless it is that I have a large army already, and don't want to re-buy stuff because big marines are only allowed to ride in big cars, and never be backwards compatible with anything has made me see the light. My opinions are pointless, I am just a hater, I should just toss all of my existing minis, and shut up and buy primaris like a good boy, because nothing retro is ever of value, and opinions like mine should be ban worthy. Thank you so much for behaving like a mod and telling Tevna and I to move on after you got your parting shot in, you really are an asset to this community.
Just paint any Marines black dude, they all look the same anyway/
Geifer wrote: I find that Templar a bit meh.Basic Mk.X Marine as is to be expected, but he could have used a little more decoration. He doesn't need to look like a Chirstmas tree, but a little more adornment to counteract the inherent tacticool look of Primaris wouldn't go amiss. Maybe there are optional bits on the sprue like purity seals and other things that got revved from the old upgrade sprue and this will be a moot point, but from what's shown I'm not particularly happy with the Initiate.
I think the rumour said that there would be separate Sword Brethren kit too, so presumably they will look more extra. But I just want to see all the new models so I can make a proper judgement. I really wish there is a great variety of bits. Primaris marines generally look cool, but sameyness is their big weakness. I really hope they break away from that with this release.
True, more kits open more possibilities for extras. I just hope we get any at all, regardless of which kit(s) they're in. These days I can't help but feel wary about that kind of stuff until I actually see what get. It seems like GW has been cutting down on optional bits so much in the more recent past compared to what we used to have. maybe not universally, but the optional bits seem to be getting sparser.
But yeah, we'll see how Templars fare in that regard.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Oh man. I'm so sorry. So sorry that I've posted an opinion you don't agree with. You are right, and I was foolish and wrong.
I'm sorry that I'm posting an opinion about the upcoming black templars release, in the black templars thread. I'm sorry I voiced some disappointment. I'm sorry that I spent years painstakingly learning to model and convert black templars, because GW wouldn't make more of their own. I'm sorry for that enthusiasm and passion. I'm sorry that I waited with baited breath for a new character, or campaign, or even just some extra fluff, a battle report, dared to even dream of a new transfer sheet, for YEARS. I'm sorry the last time my chapter got any love was back at the end of 7th, and we only got a bit of artwork showing us hanging out with xenos, and a formation to use for like 3 weeks before 8th dropped. Your snarky remarks about how pointless it is that I have a large army already, and don't want to re-buy stuff because big marines are only allowed to ride in big cars, and never be backwards compatible with anything has made me see the light. My opinions are pointless, I am just a hater, I should just toss all of my existing minis, and shut up and buy primaris like a good boy, because nothing retro is ever of value, and opinions like mine should be ban worthy. Thank you so much for behaving like a mod and telling Tevna and I to move on after you got your parting shot in, you really are an asset to this community.
You're entitled to an opinion and shouldn't be degraded (despite doing the exact same in return), but simultaneously they gave you exactly what you wanted - exciting new cool black templar models so you don't need to convert any more of your own. You can't then complain they gave you the wrong new minis just because you don't want to buy something.
Actually, you can complain about getting the wrong new models just fine. It's just not realistic to expect old Marines to actually get releases anymore. It wasn't a realistic prospect when Primaris were first released four years ago, and the absence of old Marines outside of sideshow releases in the meantime should have put the final nail in that coffin by now even for diehard holdouts. It's a shame if you like old Marines, but it's over. Old Marines are done. That's just the way it is.
None of which is lost on me, hence my original post started with "excuse me". I know it's pedantic. None of the irony, stupid as I may seem, of waiting years years for an update, only to Veruca Salt it and say "i don't want this one" is lost on me. Jesus, if I'd have known it was going to start such a fething dogpile I'd have kept it to myself.
The super flamer was to be expected. We got super bolters, super plasmas, then super meltas, so naturally if a flame weapon was to be released it wasn;t going to be just a basic flamer. Thank God they corrected the D2 though, that would have been obnoxious.
Kanluwen wrote: It could always just be the already mentioned Hellfuries, if and when they do a Gravis option. Could come with 3 different versions even.
What if Hellfuries were just what would eventually become Eradicators?
Tbh the only sense I can make of the whole primaris thing after all this time is that, unless Kirby being fired cancelled an AoS style reboot and primaris were meant to be the marines of a functionally unrelated setting, then this is a result of the sculpting team having too much power and going “We’re going to make a completely new range of marines no matter how impossible it is to reconcile with the setting’s lore”.
That said, if you still think by now old mark armour is gone you’ve not really been paying attention to the fact the same inmates running the asylum who made double marines up are also fanboys of the classic style. We’re going to have space marines and lore-unfriendly awkward marines side by side for a really long time.
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
Makes the Primaris models feel even more extra special or something?
It's likely so the weapon can work with bolt rifles. The AP also keeps it from competing for air with the assault bolters.
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
Makes the Primaris models feel even more extra special or something?
It's likely so the weapon can work with bolt rifles. The AP also keeps it from competing for air with the assault bolters.
It basically needed to have these stats.
Did they need to give mark 10 armour marines Scyllax bolters as standard in the first place?
So about this fella here, what is your take? Will there be a new neophyte kit or could this be an expanded Reiver kit with an additional BT-specific sprue similar to the hounds of morkai?
Reivers don't seem to have been received all too well and are somewhat hampered by subpar rules, so this might be a way to get them off the shelves.
The so-far-correct rumor suggested there is a "3 model Neophyte set" on the way, packed with a Black Templar upgrade frame that would "allow for you to build Neophytes with Shotguns or Bolt Pistols+CCWs" but that they would be able to take "Boltguns, Shotguns, or Bolt Pistols+CCWs". The latter would line up with a full Reiver kit plus a BT sprue if the person who reported the kit initially to the rumormonger mistook the Bolt Carbine for a standard Boltgun and the Heavy Bolt Pistol for a standard Bolt Pistol...which is possible.
That would jibe with the (as far as I can see)no longer available 3 model Reiver ETB set which had and has been making me think that the Neophytes outside of the Crusader Squads(which have been implied to be a dedicated SKU..and I'm wondering if it's some kind of mix of Reiver and Intercessor sprues) might just be that ETB kit plus the BT sprue.
TLDR: Yeah, I definitely think that's a Neophyte. How they'll be released? Who knows!
Sidenote! Finding the details of the rumors again, there's some...interesting bits. A Reddit post has the BT army box list and it suggests 4 Neophytes to 6 Initiates in the Crusader Squads from the BT army box listing. I distinctly recall seeing 3 for the box listings of individual units and the Initiates being a 5 model set, while the Reddit post has 4:6 for the individual boxes. Might be a SOB situation where the army pack has unique sculpts on set frames that the full kits won't have.
The so-far correct rumour never listed 3 Neophytes, so I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. Absolutely zero chance of an ETB kit being repackaged with an upgrade sprue.
These are the only rumours we have any reason to believe at this stage:
October and November 2021:
Complete BT release with
Ancient
Helbrecht
Grimaldus
Emperor's Champion
Seneschal
Initiates (6 Marines with Intercessor CC equipment or auto bolt rifles),
4 Neophytes (boltguns or chainswords)
The Crusader kit will have options for a Sword Brother unit leader with cape, and there's a 15" AP-1 flamer.
The Sword Brother kit will have plenty of CC options and the option to make a Marshal (like with the Custodes Warden kit that gives you the option of making a Captain).
There will be two Crusader Squads: the old one that everyone knows and a new one made up exclusively of Primaris. The latter will be 5-11 Primaris Initiates, 4-8 Primaris Neophytes, and 1 Primaris Sword Brother. Neophytes will have 2W and 2A like other Primaris.
There'll also be a conversion/bitz/upgrade sprue that will have Templar relics on it (so-and-so's helmet, the sword of such-and-such, etc.), shotguns for Neophytes, and more customisation options like extra arms (Neophyte holding a helmet), or backpack-mounted candles. There will also be a multi-melta which will become a BT vehicle option. It'll replace the stubber on Primaris vehicles.
They were translated from French, thus "Seneschal" instead of "Marshal".
Since those were posted, the contents of the launch box have been corroborated by Valrak, who claims to have seen it. His earlier comments about the models BT are going to receive are identical to the above. Apply salt as required
My brain must have cross-pollinated the 3 from a different subject with the BT rumor day of...because I've got it listed going as far back as last Sunday!
My bad! Either way, I'll be interested to see how it shakes out.
Marshal Loss wrote: They were translated from French, thus "Seneschal" instead of "Marshal".
Aww... and here I was thinking Seneschal was the new BT-equivalent of a Primaris Lieutenant.
I think they still might be.
From a release perspective, it doesn't really make sense to me that they would release a unique clam pack Marshal... Only to then have options in the Sword Brother kit to build a distinctly different Marshal.
Plus, to satisfy my own curiosity (as a non French speaker) marshal and seneschal are distinctly present in both languages sharing a common Germanic origin, so it wouldn't make much sense from a linguistic/localization perspective to switch from one to the other between languages either.
Plus even old Helbrecht is called "High Marshal" on the French GW webstore.
Black Templars used to have a rank called Castellan which was below a marshal, and commanded a particular chapter keep or detachment. Seneschal is probably that, and will be their lieutenant equivalent.
pgmason wrote: Black Templars used to have a rank called Castellan which was below a marshal, and commanded a particular chapter keep or detachment. Seneschal is probably that, and will be their lieutenant equivalent.
They still do have that rank in lore, but it's more equivalent to Captain rank due to the Templars unorthodox structure.
Helbrecht is the High Marshal and by typical Space Marine standards is the Chapter Master. However each Crusade operates independently as though it were a sub-Chapter in it's own right.
So the Marshal's Household contains similar roles and assignments as a codex Chapter's command staff, making each Marshal more responsible than a codex Captain but less significant than a Chapter Master. Below that are multiple Fighting Companies structured similar to the Companies of a codex chapter, giving a Castellan equivalent responsibility to a Captain.
So they could add Seneschal as a Lieutenant equivalent ranking between Sword Brothers and the Castellan in a fighting company.
Spoiler:
Edit: I will say though that it is odd that there is no mention of a Castellan kit or upgrade in the rumor so Seneschal could be a mistake, or there could be Castellan options buried in one of the kits and the rumormonger didn't see it.
I do think though that unless the current BT structure is changed then Seneschal is likely their Lt-eq, with Marshal = CM-eq and Castellan = Cpt-eq
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Also neither the Knight Castellan and Castellan Crowe are referred to as "Seneschal" on the French GW webstore...
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Very strong "I don't read French but I like to use Google" energy.
In any case, to clear this up, directly from the rumour monger:
Seneshal/Seneschal is supposed to be Marshal: I got a little mixed up in my translations.
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Very strong "I don't read French but I like to use Google" energy.
Which should be infinitely preferable to either someone pulling info out of their bum or parroting someone else without any sort of investigation.
In any case, to clear this up, directly from the rumour monger:
Seneshal/Seneschal is supposed to be Marshal: I got a little mixed up in my translations.
Not finding the post you're supposedly quoting, but in the process of actually confirming I found a French Warhammer wiki describing a Seneschal in the same way as a Marshal and citing it to the 4e 'dex, so fair enough.
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Very strong "I don't read French but I like to use Google" energy.
Which should be infinitely preferable to either someone pulling info out of their bum or parroting someone else without any sort of investigation.
Yes, your flailing attempts to correct others using etymology available on Wikipedia is no doubt an inspiration to researchers across the globe.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Why do they keep having Marines hold the weapon by the carry handle or have top mounted grips when they have a handguard modeled on the weapon?
Probably because the arm can't actually reach the handguard underneath, so they have to do that to hide the fact that the proportions don't actually work with these hugely oversized weapons. But yeah, I don't know why they design the weapons to have that handguard that nobody can use.