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Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 11:37:52


Post by: BrianDavion


Alright, since we seem to be having a few threads devoted to people trying to say "THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!" re 40k, I thought we needed a thread where we highlight the wonderful absurdites in 40k. the stuff that's absurdly over the top that we LOVE because of it.

I'll start us off with the sister of battle Exorcist.

It's a pipe organ mounted on a tank chassis that fires missiles. I mean from a military standpoint this doesn't make much sense I'm sure, it's great, I mean, it speaks so much of what 40k is.



Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 11:57:08


Post by: Duskweaver


Titans. The whole concept of bipedal war machines the size of skyscrapers, when you could just have mounted the same weapons on a big tank chassis, is completely stupid and impractical. But also awesome. 40K wouldn't be 40K without them.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 11:59:12


Post by: xerxeskingofking


titans, literal walking churches with limited AI and enough firepower to level city blocks. routinely go into battle with external loudspeakers' blaring hymns to exhort friendly troops to even greater acts of heroism.


anything related to the schizo tech of the Imperium. They have cyborg sevitors writing out messages on parchment with a actual feather quill, soldiers dressed in sodden whoolen rags armed with laser guns, and skyscraper sized anti-ship torpedoes that are loaded by literal chain gangs.


starship techology in general. the smallest jump capable starships are still as big as a Imperial Class Star Destroyer form Star Wars, one of the iconic "big ships" of sci fi. they have crews in the tens of thousands, with whole generations of crew being born and dying onboard the ship without ever leaving. they are just...EPIC.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 12:04:00


Post by: Mr. Burning


Rhino, Chimera, LandRaider, Leman Russ Chassis....

Can all run on wood and charcoal....Bonkers.

Shall I mention the track clearances on the physical models? Gravel or soft mud would be an effective obstacle!!

See also SM bikes!








Automatically Appended Next Post:
xerxeskingofking wrote:



anything related to the schizo tech of the Imperium. They have cyborg sevitors writing out messages on parchment with a actual feather quill,


Oh, parchment! must be an early adopter of new tech!

The whole mess that is the administratum busy work for all!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 12:14:16


Post by: xerxeskingofking


 Mr. Burning wrote:
Rhino, Chimera, LandRaider, Leman Russ Chassis....

Can all run on wood and charcoal....Bonkers.

Shall I mention the track clearances on the physical models? Gravel or soft mud would be an effective obstacle!!

See also SM bikes!


you say that, but have you looked at the "rhino" parked outside GW HQ? its a vis-mod of a british army AFV 432, and it's drive train and tracks are 100% unmodified. it has the same ground clearance as it did in service (about 40cm, for the record), and it looks both fine and very close to the model. ground clearances are not actually much higher than that on most of the tracked vehicles i have seen.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 12:21:31


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


There's a section in one of the Watchers of the Throne series (I believe) which talks about whole factory complexes dedicated to the production of vellum, and how completely and utterly inhumane and extravagant their supply and demand for the stuff is. Just the idea of so much vellum being needed, and the insane amount of bureaucracy that would require it is mind-blowing.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 12:28:02


Post by: Platuan4th


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
There's a section in one of the Watchers of the Throne series (I believe) which talks about whole factory complexes dedicated to the production of vellum, and how completely and utterly inhumane and extravagant their supply and demand for the stuff is. Just the idea of so much vellum being needed, and the insane amount of bureaucracy that would require it is mind-blowing.


The idea of an entire planet's industry dedicated to any single product(I think 3rd ed mentions a planet that literally only produces ball bearings as their export) is part of the absolutely insane absurdity of the Imperium that makes 40K what it is.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 13:02:45


Post by: Tiennos


The orks in general are about as absurd as they are fun.


I also love the idea of the cults dedicated to energy (or as they call it, the "motive force"). There are people who literally worship power generators in the 40k universe...


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 13:26:46


Post by: A.T.


Imperial technological dissonance, where hive gangs might build and use a partially self-aware nanotech locking mechanism to secure a rickety tin shed, because they build by rote and that's the only lock / shed anyone has known how to build for the past 10000 years.

Even better when next to it they secure a bunker door with a basic wafer lock because thou shalt not combine technology without the express approval of the mechanicus.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 13:26:54


Post by: -Guardsman-


The prevalence of melee combat, and the use of WW1 tactics.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 13:42:29


Post by: Mentlegen324


I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 13:46:46


Post by: Vatsetis


Orks are excellent as a comic relief... But they are also utterly brutal and terrifying.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 14:30:28


Post by: Iracundus


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.


Up to a point. Yet at the same time certain facts about the Imperium mean there has to be some minimum degree of actual competence in order for the setting to exist. For example, Hive worlds are described as being dependent on food imports to feed its population, or at least its upper classes, with the lower classes surviving on recycled organic matter or locally produced food from hive flora and fauna. We have examples of hive worlds existing for literally thousands of years, so that means the food logistics system has to have worked well enough to prevent the wholesale collapse of the hive world into starvation or anarchy.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 14:48:07


Post by: TheBestBucketHead


There are flying churches that fly through daemon infested emotional hells, where the only way to protect yourself is literally forcing a bit of the real universe between you and the entities that would do things so horrible to you that your souls would be torn to shreds, only guided by the sheer force and light of the dead god you follow, yet this is the only FTL travel available, and is reliable enough to use it as transport.

Also, basically anything AdMech. My girlfriend got me into 40k, and the absurdities of the AdMech is what caused it. Needing to chant and pray, to offer your soul to the machine, to preform the rituals, to become one with machine, all to properly serve the Machine God.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 14:56:00


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


All of it.

The background is what sells the game, and that background is bonkers and near infinite in its capacity for realism and insanity.

Orks not being strictly malevolent, just so single minded as a society they can’t comprehend that not everyone loves fighting as much as they do.

Necrons being unfathomably old, and lead by insane leaders with varying grasps on reality.



Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 15:12:36


Post by: Tiennos


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.
Everybody can only stretch their willing suspension of disbelief to a certain extent; people with less "flexibility" probably don't get into 40k in the first place. Most things in the setting work as long as you don't think too hard about them and that's fine. But sometimes things fall apart with even the slightest thought. When the hyperboles get so out of hand that it's up to the audience to do the mental gymnastics to keep things believable, it's a good sign that you may have reached grimderp.

One example that always makes me want to facepalm is a bit of fluff about special bolts used by the Sororitas that are so special that "it takes an artificer a lifetime to produce just one." How can you possibly spend several decades working on a singular piece of ammo? One that's based on a mass-produced design, too...


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 15:58:39


Post by: Iracundus


 Tiennos wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.
Everybody can only stretch their willing suspension of disbelief to a certain extent; people with less "flexibility" probably don't get into 40k in the first place. Most things in the setting work as long as you don't think too hard about them and that's fine. But sometimes things fall apart with even the slightest thought. When the hyperboles get so out of hand that it's up to the audience to do the mental gymnastics to keep things believable, it's a good sign that you may have reached grimderp.

One example that always makes me want to facepalm is a bit of fluff about special bolts used by the Sororitas that are so special that "it takes an artificer a lifetime to produce just one." How can you possibly spend several decades working on a singular piece of ammo? One that's based on a mass-produced design, too...


That I could believe because what I think you are referring to is the "Blessed Bolts" strategem. The religious aspect of it could take many years. Praying over it, sprinkling it with holy oils or the Emperor's Tears, letting it sit on the altar or other holy place for years to absorb the holiness etc... To the religious mindset of the SoB, all that can be just as much a part of the manufacturing process.

Remember it is a bolt (or series of bolt rounds if we take 1 die roll to be several shots) that cause 2 MW on a to-hit roll of 6 (which could be via an Act of Faith). That means it "miraculously" bypasses invulnerable saves to inflict 2 MW, which is sort of what is shown for example in the Gate of Bones novel. Bolt rounds fired by the SoB inexplicably fly through a possessed CSM's supernatural defenses (which had earlier stopped some Custodes) and happen to hit it lethally in its hearts.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 16:03:33


Post by: -Guardsman-


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Necrons being unfathomably old, and lead by insane leaders with varying grasps on reality.

Trazyn is awesome. Also the mad general who still thinks he's fighting the wars of the past.

All in all, I think Necrons have become one of the most interesting factions. I like how they have harnessed the power of godlike beings. Where other factions serve and worship their gods, the Necrons have bound theirs to their will. Except they're playing with fire...


 Tiennos wrote:
One example that always makes me want to facepalm is a bit of fluff about special bolts used by the Sororitas that are so special that "it takes an artificer a lifetime to produce just one." How can you possibly spend several decades working on a singular piece of ammo? One that's based on a mass-produced design, too...

Oh yeah, I remember this part, and I agree it's idiotic. That would be such a waste of an artificer's skill. He could handcraft enough bolters and chainswords to outfit an entire Marine company over the course of his career, and instead he makes one bullet? What target is even worth a lifetime of toil to kill? Imagine if that bullet misses.

Another facepalm-worthy thing is the mental gymnastics used to justify how Lucius can reincarnate yet again, by stretching to an extreme the definition of "taking pleasure from killing him". The extra annoying thing is that sometimes, it seems like his deaths are written with the express purpose of shutting down "Actually, he could die under this specific condition" arguments. I think the lore should just acknowledge that it is perfectly possible to kill him without becoming him, except it just hasn't happened yet.

.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 16:14:45


Post by: Tiennos


Spoiler:
Iracundus wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.
Everybody can only stretch their willing suspension of disbelief to a certain extent; people with less "flexibility" probably don't get into 40k in the first place. Most things in the setting work as long as you don't think too hard about them and that's fine. But sometimes things fall apart with even the slightest thought. When the hyperboles get so out of hand that it's up to the audience to do the mental gymnastics to keep things believable, it's a good sign that you may have reached grimderp.

One example that always makes me want to facepalm is a bit of fluff about special bolts used by the Sororitas that are so special that "it takes an artificer a lifetime to produce just one." How can you possibly spend several decades working on a singular piece of ammo? One that's based on a mass-produced design, too...


That I could believe because what I think you are referring to is the "Blessed Bolts" strategem. The religious aspect of it could take many years. Praying over it, sprinkling it with holy oils or the Emperor's Tears, letting it sit on the altar or other holy place for years to absorb the holiness etc...

Remember it is a bolt (or series of bolt rounds if we take 1 die roll to be several shots) that cause 2 MW on a to-hit roll of 6 (which could be via an Act of Faith). That means it "miraculously" bypasses invulnerable saves to inflict 2 MW, which is sort of what is shown for example in the Gate of Bones novel. Bolt rounds fired by the SoB inexplicably fly through a possessed CSM's supernatural defenses (which had earlier stopped some Custodes) and happen to hit it lethally in its hearts.

And you're illustrating what I was saying: you're doing all the mental gymnastics to justify silly hyperbole. I can believe that some guy would spend a long time making a bolt by hand, engraving prayers in it, then blessing it a hundred times, etc. But "a lifetime" is beyond any reasonable timeframe to do that. At that point, that means they're just choosing to take extra time for no clear reason.

Actually, it'd be a lot easier to believe if you told me those artificers are paid by the hour.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 16:22:33


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Depends how long the artificer lives though.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 16:29:28


Post by: -Guardsman-


Annnnd we're back to the kind of argument that this thread is trying to counteract. (Yes, I know I have a share of guilt in this derailment.)


One of the absurdities I like is the wild range of technological levels found across worlds. Feral worlds, feudal worlds, industrial worlds, etc. Does it make sense that a world would have reverted to medieval technology? Not really. Is it awesome? Yes.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 16:45:31


Post by: Gert


Its not necessarily technology but rather society. Feudal system combined with halberds with lasers in them.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:05:31


Post by: Mr. Burning


 Tiennos wrote:
Spoiler:
Iracundus wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.
Everybody can only stretch their willing suspension of disbelief to a certain extent; people with less "flexibility" probably don't get into 40k in the first place. Most things in the setting work as long as you don't think too hard about them and that's fine. But sometimes things fall apart with even the slightest thought. When the hyperboles get so out of hand that it's up to the audience to do the mental gymnastics to keep things believable, it's a good sign that you may have reached grimderp.

One example that always makes me want to facepalm is a bit of fluff about special bolts used by the Sororitas that are so special that "it takes an artificer a lifetime to produce just one." How can you possibly spend several decades working on a singular piece of ammo? One that's based on a mass-produced design, too...


That I could believe because what I think you are referring to is the "Blessed Bolts" strategem. The religious aspect of it could take many years. Praying over it, sprinkling it with holy oils or the Emperor's Tears, letting it sit on the altar or other holy place for years to absorb the holiness etc...

Remember it is a bolt (or series of bolt rounds if we take 1 die roll to be several shots) that cause 2 MW on a to-hit roll of 6 (which could be via an Act of Faith). That means it "miraculously" bypasses invulnerable saves to inflict 2 MW, which is sort of what is shown for example in the Gate of Bones novel. Bolt rounds fired by the SoB inexplicably fly through a possessed CSM's supernatural defenses (which had earlier stopped some Custodes) and happen to hit it lethally in its hearts.

And you're illustrating what I was saying: you're doing all the mental gymnastics to justify silly hyperbole. I can believe that some guy would spend a long time making a bolt by hand, engraving prayers in it, then blessing it a hundred times, etc. But "a lifetime" is beyond any reasonable timeframe to do that. At that point, that means they're just choosing to take extra time for no clear reason.

Actually, it'd be a lot easier to believe if you told me those artificers are paid by the hour.


A world of a billion+ souls dedicated to producing Blessed Bolts.

A thousand worlds with 10,000 dedicated blessed bolt artisans and their families after..

A million worlds with one single worker in service to the Sisters.

A lifetime and a life is nothing to the Imperium.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:17:11


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


-Guardsman- wrote:
Annnnd we're back to the kind of argument that this thread is trying to counteract. (Yes, I know I have a share of guilt in this derailment.)


One of the absurdities I like is the wild range of technological levels found across worlds. Feral worlds, feudal worlds, industrial worlds, etc. Does it make sense that a world would have reverted to medieval technology? Not really. Is it awesome? Yes.


Those I feel are definitely one of the cooler aspects. And of course, originally introduced so people could use any existing terrain, and even Fantasy models when Rogue Trader first came out. Helluva way to open up as wide an audience as possible.

In the modern setting, they serve to show Imperium, Interrupted. That it’s so consumed putting out the various fires that crop up, it has no serious investment in expanding and improving its infrastructure.

How much of that is out of necessity, and how much a general governmental indifference is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Which I guess is true of pretty much any 40K background. And that’s because so much of it is contradictory or just unclear. Maybe that’s lazy writing, maybe there’s more of a design than others might give credit for, given its more of a mythical background than a strictly historical one. Either way, it makes for very interesting discussions, at least in my opinion.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:26:46


Post by: Gert


I love the Feudal Worlds. They're without a doubt my favourite world type.
A short story has an Inquisitor try to stealthily discover why a new Knightly order, the Order of the Wyrm, has suddenly gained traction. Turns out the Wyrm are fighting a clandestine war against the Order of the Star(?) and both sides turn out to be a Genestealer Cult and Chaos Cult respectively with the High King being a puppet of the Gods who gets executed by another Inquisitor who was also investigating the Chaos Order. Great little story.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:33:15


Post by: Vatsetis


-Guardsman- wrote:
Annnnd we're back to the kind of argument that this thread is trying to counteract. (Yes, I know I have a share of guilt in this derailment.)


One of the absurdities I like is the wild range of technological levels found across worlds. Feral worlds, feudal worlds, industrial worlds, etc. Does it make sense that a world would have reverted to medieval technology? Not really. Is it awesome? Yes.


This is actually one of the most realistic elements of the setting.

Search for "Uneven and combined development".


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:39:04


Post by: Mentlegen324


 Tiennos wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think those that say "That doesn't make sense, therefore its bad" sort of miss the point of the setting somewhat. I've seen many aspects - loading ship torpedoes by using press gangs, the Grey Knights killing Battle Sisters to adorn their armour in blood, Krieg Guardsman bombarding a Hive so much that they keep firing years and years after it's already destroyed and everyones dead - labelled as "GrimDerp", but I don't see any issue with those bits of lore at all. The Imperium isn't meant to be some sort of logical, sane, sensible Empire that makes good choices, it's supposed to be the opposite and its actions reflect that.
Everybody can only stretch their willing suspension of disbelief to a certain extent; people with less "flexibility" probably don't get into 40k in the first place. Most things in the setting work as long as you don't think too hard about them and that's fine. But sometimes things fall apart with even the slightest thought. When the hyperboles get so out of hand that it's up to the audience to do the mental gymnastics to keep things believable, it's a good sign that you may have reached grimderp.

One example that always makes me want to facepalm is a bit of fluff about special bolts used by the Sororitas that are so special that "it takes an artificer a lifetime to produce just one." How can you possibly spend several decades working on a singular piece of ammo? One that's based on a mass-produced design, too...


I don't really agree with that example. If you view it as just a bolter round as in terms of the components and such, than sure, it taking a lifetime would seem absurd...but when you take into account that the Imperium is a society that is heavily imbued with religious superstition, doctrine and ritual, where both the materials and the craftsmanship of it would have to align with those meticulous standards and be stipulated with all sorts of arbitrary time-consuming tasks and exacting specifications along the way, I don't think it's that much of an oddity that creating such a holy artifact could take an artificer a lifetime. It wouldn't just be putting mass-manufactured parts together like with a typical round. It's something that on the surface should be relatively simple that's beeen turned into a work of art that takes a lifetime, it makes a point about how the religious aspects of the Imperium affects things to a significant degree.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:43:08


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


The existence of "Religion" in setting.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:53:29


Post by: -Guardsman-


 Mr. Burning wrote:
Spoiler:
A world of a billion+ souls dedicated to producing Blessed Bolts.

A thousand worlds with 10,000 dedicated blessed bolt artisans and their families after..

A million worlds with one single worker in service to the Sisters.

A lifetime and a life is nothing to the Imperium.


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't really agree with that example. If you view it as just a bolter round as in terms of the components and such, than sure, it taking a lifetime would seem absurd...but when you take into account that the Imperium is a society that is heavily imbued with religious superstition, doctrine and ritual, where both the materials and the craftsmanship of it would have to align with those meticulous standards and be stipulated with all sorts of arbitrary time-consuming tasks and exacting specifications along the way, I don't think it's that much of an oddity that creating such a holy artifact could take an artificer a lifetime. It wouldn't just be putting mass-manufactured parts together like with a typical round.

The absurdity lies in why anyone tasked with managing the Imperium's heavily stretched resources would think an artificer's lifetime of work is worth one (1) dead heretic or alien, when that same artificer could instead craft enough regular-ass boltguns and bolter shells to kill thousands of heretics or aliens.

The Imperium's workers are countless, but so are the Imperium's enemies.



FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The existence of "Religion" in setting.

I wouldn't say religion itself is absurd in a futuristic setting. Religion is present in every human society, so clearly it fulfills a deep-seated psychological need, and is to some extent part of human nature (even though some people, myself included, are not religious). The absurdity is rather the sheer fanaticism and closed-mindedness that manages to coexist with a technologically advanced society.

And it's definitely a part of the setting I love.

.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 17:57:17


Post by: Vatsetis


Sure because XXI century Catholic fanatism has a lot more nuance than its XVI century counterpart...

The only difference is that nowdays they dont control the state apparatus like in the early modern age or in the IOM.

Why do the most realistic elements of the lore seem "absurd" to you?... please just read the newspapers.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 18:05:18


Post by: -Guardsman-


Vatsetis wrote:
Sure because XXI century Catholic fanatism has a lot more nuance than its XVI century counterpart...

The only difference is that nowdays they dont control the state apparatus like in the early modern age or in the IOM.

Why do the most realistic elements of the lore seem "absurd" to you?... please just read the newspapers.

The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 18:15:01


Post by: Mentlegen324


-Guardsman- wrote:
 Mr. Burning wrote:
Spoiler:
A world of a billion+ souls dedicated to producing Blessed Bolts.

A thousand worlds with 10,000 dedicated blessed bolt artisans and their families after..

A million worlds with one single worker in service to the Sisters.

A lifetime and a life is nothing to the Imperium.


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't really agree with that example. If you view it as just a bolter round as in terms of the components and such, than sure, it taking a lifetime would seem absurd...but when you take into account that the Imperium is a society that is heavily imbued with religious superstition, doctrine and ritual, where both the materials and the craftsmanship of it would have to align with those meticulous standards and be stipulated with all sorts of arbitrary time-consuming tasks and exacting specifications along the way, I don't think it's that much of an oddity that creating such a holy artifact could take an artificer a lifetime. It wouldn't just be putting mass-manufactured parts together like with a typical round.

The absurdity lies in why anyone tasked with managing the Imperium's heavily stretched resources would think an artificer's lifetime of work is worth one (1) dead heretic or alien, when that same artificer could instead craft enough regular-ass boltguns and bolter shells to kill thousands of heretics or aliens.

The Imperium's workers are countless, but so are the Imperium's enemies.

.


The Imperium is a wasteful, corrupt, inefficient Empire that considers life so cheap and its set ways of doing things along with its religion as being of such importance that having someone dedicate their life to producing a single arbitrarily designated holy item that will no doubt be used with little regard, rather than their abilities being put to a more worthwhile and a less wasteful purpose, is the sort of thing that defines them. They're so stubborn and locked in with their absurd beliefs and methods that just makes sense to them, they're not meant to in any way be a group that thinks logically and goes "Maybe having this person do something more useful with his skills would be a good idea". It's a crumbling empire that refuses to accept that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they could do things better.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 18:27:04


Post by: Vatsetis


-Guardsman- wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
Sure because XXI century Catholic fanatism has a lot more nuance than its XVI century counterpart...

The only difference is that nowdays they dont control the state apparatus like in the early modern age or in the IOM.

Why do the most realistic elements of the lore seem "absurd" to you?... please just read the newspapers.

The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.


Well yes... altough I might say this one is based on Asimovs foundation series.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 18:32:32


Post by: Gert


-Guardsman- wrote:
The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.

I mean, it's a cult. Name me one cult that isn't weird.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 18:42:36


Post by: -Guardsman-


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Imperium is a wasteful, corrupt, inefficient Empire that considers life so cheap and its set ways of doing things along with its religion as being of such importance that having someone dedicate their life to producing a single arbitrarily designated holy item that will no doubt be used with little regard, rather than their abilities being put to a more worthwhile and a less wasteful purpose, is the sort of thing that defines them. They're so stubborn and locked in with their absurd beliefs and methods that just makes sense to them, they're not meant to in any way be a group that thinks logically and goes "Maybe having this person do something more useful with his skills would be a good idea". It's a crumbling empire that refuses to accept that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they could do things better.

Alright. But this specific instance (a lifetime to produce a bolter shell) is not an irreplaceable part of what makes the setting interesting. It's one line of fluff in one codex.

Titans are absurd, but they're an important part of the setting. They're cool on the table. They're cool in the fluff. Removing them because "they're not realistic" would make people complain.

Replacing the "lifetime to produce a bolter shell" thing with something that makes more sense (e.g. "each of these bolter shells contains the thrice-blessed ashes of a martyr of the Imperium") would remove nothing from what makes the setting of Warhammer 40k cool and interesting.

.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 18:46:15


Post by: Vatsetis


 Gert wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.

I mean, it's a cult. Name me one cult that isn't weird.


Cult of Dionysus might be weird... but you know better have wine than human sacrifies.

https://stmuscholars.org/cult-of-dionysus/


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 19:11:06


Post by: epronovost


-Guardsman- wrote:

The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.


So you have never seen someone curse at a machine for not working and then thank it when it does? I see that often, hell I probably did it. Plus there is this group of people call transhumanists, some are not that far away from praying to the machine spirits. You can google "Roco's Basilisk" and have some fun seeing people behaving a bit like 40k characters.


Absurdities I love about warhammer:

It's general esthetic, psychic powers, close combat in the future, mechs (and giant mechs), everything ork, Abaddon's incredible haircut (it doesn't have enough credit), werewolf space Vikings riding giant cyber-wolves into battle, shuriken weapons, ogryns.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 19:20:46


Post by: Mentlegen324


-Guardsman- wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Imperium is a wasteful, corrupt, inefficient Empire that considers life so cheap and its set ways of doing things along with its religion as being of such importance that having someone dedicate their life to producing a single arbitrarily designated holy item that will no doubt be used with little regard, rather than their abilities being put to a more worthwhile and a less wasteful purpose, is the sort of thing that defines them. They're so stubborn and locked in with their absurd beliefs and methods that just makes sense to them, they're not meant to in any way be a group that thinks logically and goes "Maybe having this person do something more useful with his skills would be a good idea". It's a crumbling empire that refuses to accept that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they could do things better.

Alright. But this specific instance (a lifetime to produce a bolter shell) is not an irreplaceable part of what makes the setting interesting. It's one line of fluff in one codex.

Titans are absurd, but they're an important part of the setting. They're cool on the table. They're cool in the fluff. Removing them because "they're not realistic" would make people complain.

Replacing the "lifetime to produce a bolter shell" thing with something that makes more sense (e.g. "each of these bolter shells contains the thrice-blessed ashes of a martyr of the Imperium") would remove nothing from what makes the setting of Warhammer 40k cool and interesting.

.


Removing some of the absurd, illogical, arbitrary or baffling behaviour of the Imperium in order to make it seem more reasonable and rational is something that takes away from the setting, though.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 19:47:06


Post by: Andykp


-Guardsman- wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
Sure because XXI century Catholic fanatism has a lot more nuance than its XVI century counterpart...

The only difference is that nowdays they dont control the state apparatus like in the early modern age or in the IOM.

Why do the most realistic elements of the lore seem "absurd" to you?... please just read the newspapers.

The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.


No more absurd than older religions praying to the sun or the forest spirits. It is all based on a lack of understanding and ignorance in a way. Certainly the mechanicus.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 20:00:59


Post by: Vatsetis


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Imperium is a wasteful, corrupt, inefficient Empire that considers life so cheap and its set ways of doing things along with its religion as being of such importance that having someone dedicate their life to producing a single arbitrarily designated holy item that will no doubt be used with little regard, rather than their abilities being put to a more worthwhile and a less wasteful purpose, is the sort of thing that defines them. They're so stubborn and locked in with their absurd beliefs and methods that just makes sense to them, they're not meant to in any way be a group that thinks logically and goes "Maybe having this person do something more useful with his skills would be a good idea". It's a crumbling empire that refuses to accept that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they could do things better.

Alright. But this specific instance (a lifetime to produce a bolter shell) is not an irreplaceable part of what makes the setting interesting. It's one line of fluff in one codex.

Titans are absurd, but they're an important part of the setting. They're cool on the table. They're cool in the fluff. Removing them because "they're not realistic" would make people complain.

Replacing the "lifetime to produce a bolter shell" thing with something that makes more sense (e.g. "each of these bolter shells contains the thrice-blessed ashes of a martyr of the Imperium") would remove nothing from what makes the setting of Warhammer 40k cool and interesting.

.


Removing some of the absurd, illogical, arbitrary or baffling behaviour of the Imperium in order to make it seem more reasonable and rational is something that takes away from the setting, though.


You are just giving a pass to bad writers that cannot enforce the setting zeitgeist with a sense of nuance.

Turning the IOM in to looney tunes level of absurdity just for lol removes any gravitas to the setting... Unless you are happy if everything is flanderized to the level of the "Regimental Standard". :(


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 20:11:53


Post by: MarkNorfolk


Bring on the absurdity! It's not Brave New World or Nineteen Eighty-four, it's Brazil and Judge Dredd. It's Starship Troopers the movie, not the book.

Or at least, it is when it isn't being po-faced and taking itself too seriously.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 20:15:32


Post by: Gregor Samsa


Rigid enforcement of WYSIWYG is good for the competitive community and players at large.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 20:53:52


Post by: Mentlegen324


Vatsetis wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Imperium is a wasteful, corrupt, inefficient Empire that considers life so cheap and its set ways of doing things along with its religion as being of such importance that having someone dedicate their life to producing a single arbitrarily designated holy item that will no doubt be used with little regard, rather than their abilities being put to a more worthwhile and a less wasteful purpose, is the sort of thing that defines them. They're so stubborn and locked in with their absurd beliefs and methods that just makes sense to them, they're not meant to in any way be a group that thinks logically and goes "Maybe having this person do something more useful with his skills would be a good idea". It's a crumbling empire that refuses to accept that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they could do things better.

Alright. But this specific instance (a lifetime to produce a bolter shell) is not an irreplaceable part of what makes the setting interesting. It's one line of fluff in one codex.

Titans are absurd, but they're an important part of the setting. They're cool on the table. They're cool in the fluff. Removing them because "they're not realistic" would make people complain.

Replacing the "lifetime to produce a bolter shell" thing with something that makes more sense (e.g. "each of these bolter shells contains the thrice-blessed ashes of a martyr of the Imperium") would remove nothing from what makes the setting of Warhammer 40k cool and interesting.

.


Removing some of the absurd, illogical, arbitrary or baffling behaviour of the Imperium in order to make it seem more reasonable and rational is something that takes away from the setting, though.


You are just giving a pass to bad writers that cannot enforce the setting zeitgeist with a sense of nuance.

Turning the IOM in to looney tunes level of absurdity just for lol removes any gravitas to the setting... Unless you are happy if everything is flanderized to the level of the "Regimental Standard". :(


I don't consider it "bad writing". It shows just how backwards and illogical the Imperium can be and the absurd stipulations they pose upon themselves because of all that. They're an irrational, cruel, backwards crumbling empire that has been stagnant at best for millennia, with its own state-mandated religion and archaic rituals influencing nearly all aspects of how they function, where life is considered so cheap and there's so little mercy and compassion that entire armies get dispatched to recover holy relics or recover missing equipment simply due to its sentimental/religious importance- , that a single extra, extra special holy bolter round for the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy has so many exact specifications and baffling arbitrary requirements to its crafting that - just to make a round that is barely different from a standard one - it is considered a worthwhile endeavor for an artificers lifetimes work emphasizes just how far all that can go.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 22:05:53


Post by: Iracundus


-Guardsman- wrote:
 Mr. Burning wrote:
Spoiler:
A world of a billion+ souls dedicated to producing Blessed Bolts.

A thousand worlds with 10,000 dedicated blessed bolt artisans and their families after..

A million worlds with one single worker in service to the Sisters.

A lifetime and a life is nothing to the Imperium.


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't really agree with that example. If you view it as just a bolter round as in terms of the components and such, than sure, it taking a lifetime would seem absurd...but when you take into account that the Imperium is a society that is heavily imbued with religious superstition, doctrine and ritual, where both the materials and the craftsmanship of it would have to align with those meticulous standards and be stipulated with all sorts of arbitrary time-consuming tasks and exacting specifications along the way, I don't think it's that much of an oddity that creating such a holy artifact could take an artificer a lifetime. It wouldn't just be putting mass-manufactured parts together like with a typical round.

The absurdity lies in why anyone tasked with managing the Imperium's heavily stretched resources would think an artificer's lifetime of work is worth one (1) dead heretic or alien, when that same artificer could instead craft enough regular-ass boltguns and bolter shells to kill thousands of heretics or aliens.

The Imperium's workers are countless, but so are the Imperium's enemies.


Because it's actually true within the 40K universe that blessed bolt rounds do better against particularly powerful enemies, especially Chaos enemies, compared to normal bolt rounds that bounce off fields or supernatural wards. You don't expend normal bolt rounds on the average random cultist. You fire the blessed bolts at that Daemon Prince. All that religious activity around that ammunition actually has an effect within 40K, whether that be from some latent psychic effect of faith or because the Emperor nudges things.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 22:49:21


Post by: leerm02



The best absurdity? The everything can hurt/kill everything mechanic :-)

I had a lone remaining space marine sgt with no CC weapon once take down an enemy tank in melee. He just beat the last two wounds off it with his fists. It was so unbelievably 40k that my opponent and I were both just laughing at it the whole time.

If that doesn't embody the spirit of the game, I don't know what does!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 23:05:07


Post by: Iracundus


leerm02 wrote:

The best absurdity? The everything can hurt/kill everything mechanic :-)

I had a lone remaining space marine sgt with no CC weapon once take down an enemy tank in melee. He just beat the last two wounds off it with his fists. It was so unbelievably 40k that my opponent and I were both just laughing at it the whole time.

If that doesn't embody the spirit of the game, I don't know what does!


It was done to avoid the whole "I take a tank company and am now completely invulnerable to your infantry horde army. GG". Back in 3rd edition, they had to introduce a mandatory rule if one used a pure tank company, that basically meant the opponent's weapon hits had a 1/36 chance of scoring at least a glancing hit, no matter the strength of the hit, to at least give opponents at least a slight chance of scratching the tanks if they hadn't loaded up on heavy weapons.

I guess it could be argued that a tank down to the last 2 W might have rents in the armor already and what your marine did was take advantage of existing damage to get at the crew or other vital part of the tank.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 23:22:02


Post by: Veldrain


Scout. Titans.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 23:44:10


Post by: Lord Blackscale


 Gert wrote:
I love the Feudal Worlds. They're without a doubt my favourite world type.
A short story has an Inquisitor try to stealthily discover why a new Knightly order, the Order of the Wyrm, has suddenly gained traction. Turns out the Wyrm are fighting a clandestine war against the Order of the Star(?) and both sides turn out to be a Genestealer Cult and Chaos Cult respectively with the High King being a puppet of the Gods who gets executed by another Inquisitor who was also investigating the Chaos Order. Great little story.


I NEED the name of this story!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/13 23:47:55


Post by: Gert


I will check to see if I kept the White Dwarf, it probably won't be available elsewhere.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 00:00:12


Post by: -Guardsman-


Andykp wrote:
No more absurd than older religions praying to the sun or the forest spirits. It is all based on a lack of understanding and ignorance in a way. Certainly the mechanicus.

Counterpoint: it's absurd, but it's one of those absurdities we love about Warhammer, per the thread's title.

The point of this thread isn't to defend absurd stuff as "not that absurd when you think about it". It's to separate the absurdity we love, the one that enriches the setting or allows awesome stuff like giant walkers, from the absurdity that just breaks your suspension of disbelief.

.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 00:52:49


Post by: Voss


-Guardsman- wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
Sure because XXI century Catholic fanatism has a lot more nuance than its XVI century counterpart...

The only difference is that nowdays they dont control the state apparatus like in the early modern age or in the IOM.

Why do the most realistic elements of the lore seem "absurd" to you?... please just read the newspapers.

The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.


They aren't particularly. Most people have no idea how tech works.
20th century cartoons had jokes about magic gnomes living in refrigerators and switching the light on and off manually when the door was opened/closed for a reason. Cargo cults were very much a thing.
'Percussive maintenance' is a fervent belief in the here and now.

And tech priest rituals have literally been described in archaic terms but amounted to 'spray WD40, yell obscenities, and turn the power off and on again' (apply holy unguents, implore the machine spirit, strike the rune of activation).


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 01:28:18


Post by: KidCthulhu


I love the absurdities of the AdMech. Especially one bit of fluff about thousands of cyborg troopers dying in a bloody war of attrition to reclaim an STC template... for a self-heating crock pot.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 01:37:52


Post by: Gadzilla666


300+ ton tanks that actually work. And chainweapons. All of them. Chainswords, chainaxes, chainfists (especially chainfists). Who wouldn't want an entire army of Ash Williams?


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 01:44:38


Post by: thegreatchimp


Chainmail on high-tech exoskeletons. Books on the bonnet of a 300mph anti-grav vehicle. The very notion that a hulking 7 footer with half a ton of armour can move stealthily. To name but a few...


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 05:06:29


Post by: BrianDavion


-Guardsman- wrote:
Andykp wrote:
No more absurd than older religions praying to the sun or the forest spirits. It is all based on a lack of understanding and ignorance in a way. Certainly the mechanicus.

Counterpoint: it's absurd, but it's one of those absurdities we love about Warhammer, per the thread's title.

The point of this thread isn't to defend absurd stuff as "not that absurd when you think about it". It's to separate the absurdity we love, the one that enriches the setting or allows awesome stuff like giant walkers, from the absurdity that just breaks your suspension of disbelief.

.


exactly, it's a celebration of the wonderfuly weird, the fantasticly wacky, the stuff about 40k that makes it "more then just some dystopian future with minis"

as well as to realize that this wacky stuff is part of what we LOVE about 40k.


I'm gonna follow it up by moving into the realm of the controversy here..



I love that sled/chariot.

it combines a few differant inspirations into one absolutely absurd package that just SCREAMS 40k to me.

Lemme explain by what I mean, first of all, you have Logan himself, he's pretty a space wolf, the viking warrior with a wolf theme to his armor and decorations in power armor.. then you combine it with a dash of North Mythology (in this case Thor's flying chariot pulled by goats) replace the goats with wolves cause.. space wolves of course, and add some futuristic tech to it, and you have something absolutely nuts, it's great. and is VERY "40k"


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 05:28:36


Post by: GoldenHorde


The biggest and best absurdity in 40k is actually those people who take issue to the absurdities



They don't get it


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 05:52:38


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Vouxis Prime is a world where the entire population is dedicated to making giant skyscraper-size statues.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 05:57:04


Post by: Insectum7


 Duskweaver wrote:
Titans. The whole concept of bipedal war machines the size of skyscrapers, when you could just have mounted the same weapons on a big tank chassis, is completely stupid and impractical. But also awesome. 40K wouldn't be 40K without them.
I prefer thinking about it from the assumption that it actually has merit in some way, and then work forwards with that. Once you accept they have the technology to build it, try and see why they might build it instead of some different design.

Titans:
A: They walk because they want to be tall, rather than squat like a tank. They have directed energy weapons that are limited in range only by geological formations or even the curvature of the world they are on. Therefore, being taller is better for the Titan as an offensive platform.

B: They will be deployed again and again across many worlds and many terrain types, and legs will allow greater flexibility and easier pathfinding than a giant tank.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 09:40:40


Post by: Duskweaver


If we're using the term 'absurd' in its proper philosophical/literary sense, rather than its everyday "this doesn't make sense or is hilariously wrong" sense, then the tech-priest praying to his toaster and it actually working is perhaps the most sublime example of the absurd in 40K.

The whole of the 40K setting, at least in its earlier versions, is pretty solidly grounded in absurdism. It's all about fallible human beings searching for meaning in an essentially meaningless universe. 'Gods' are just the extremes of human emotion given form (which renders all worship a kind of spiritual masturbation) and Chaos will eventually eat everything no matter what anybody does, but people fight against that fate anyway, mostly out of stubbornness and ignorance (or alternatively they fool themselves into thinking they can actually benefit from pacts made with beings that are constructed from the worst parts of their own psyches). The Emperor is probably dead, or might never have existed at all, and certainly isn't mankind's saviour, but he's worshipped as a god anyway, in outright defiance of his own stated beliefs and wishes. People do stuff (like praying to their toaster) because they're ignorant about how the universe works, but it sometimes works anyway because human reason and even the concept of causality and what we call 'reality' are themselves flawed concepts. Maybe things just happen totally at random, or maybe there's a malevolent daemon-god pulling the strings, or maybe even the daemon-god is insane and deluded and the strings he's pulling aren't actually doing anything and it really is just random and he just thinks he's controlling everything.

It's why the Inquisition fights Chaos largely by keeping people in ignorance of it (meaninglessness becomes unbearable only when one is conscious of it), and why inquisitors who live long enough to have some understanding of Chaos almost always become radicals and eventually just full-on Chaos worshippers, because to understand Chaos is to recognise that the fight itself is meaningless. To fight Chaos is literally to "imagine Sisyphus happy": the fight is ultimately meaningless, but it is also the closest anyone in 40K can get to a meaningful existence. The Emperor, who tries to defeat Chaos, fails, and ends up with his dream of a future defined by secular human reason turned into the complete opposite of that, is the ultimate absurdist (anti-)hero. Once he ascends to the Golden Throne, his Imperium does a full Kierkegaard and abandons reason for religion.

And then there's the fething harlequins, of course. Literally fighting Chaos by laughing in its face. Plus, the whole thing of existing solely as an 'actor' playing a role and constantly shifting from one persona to another to outwit death/damnation ("appearing creates being") is also straight out of absurdism (Camus IIRC).


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 11:02:50


Post by: princeyg


Mordian Iron Guard.

Dark Planet, no use for camoflage. Lets just wear full battle dress all the time.

Also Mordian Iron guard: Reassigned to desert planet/death world/ ice planet etc.... Im sorry? what was that about appropriate combat gear? I coudnt hear you over the swishing of the tassles on my PERFECTLY PRISTINE full battle dress.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 12:49:27


Post by: Dysartes


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Vouxis Prime is a world where the entire population is dedicated to making giant skyscraper-size statues.

...that's a new one on me. Cast metal, or carved from stone?


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 13:06:01


Post by: techsoldaten


Tank Shock.

The old rule that said, if you run over a unit in your tank / APC that moves twice as fast, said unit is moved out of the way.

If only the real world worked that way...


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 18:31:34


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 KidCthulhu wrote:
I love the absurdities of the AdMech. Especially one bit of fluff about thousands of cyborg troopers dying in a bloody war of attrition to reclaim an STC template... for a self-heating crock pot.


The joy here, for me, isn’t that they spent thousands if not millions of lives for a crockpot. Rather, they did it for the STC, without knowing what it was for, and still treat it as a major victory For Science!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 19:09:39


Post by: Veldrain


But just think of how much a morale boost those crock pots will give to the front lines.

Now, if only the front lines had anything decent to put in said pots.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 19:24:19


Post by: Gert


Son, 200 soldiers died for that Ration Pack you best enjoy it!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/14 20:38:09


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Dysartes wrote:
...that's a new one on me. Cast metal, or carved from stone?
Stone. Endless statues. Whole population lives underground to hide form a Ork v Tyranid war that ravaged the surface.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/15 08:54:09


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Harlequins. Killer-clown-elves from outer space.

Thunderwolf-Cavalry.

Foul Blightspawn. Just look at that model. He somehow cooks something up in his own belly, pumps it through his backpack to then throw it on enemies.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/15 20:32:30


Post by: mrFickle


Chainswords are totally ridiculous when you think about it


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/15 21:55:50


Post by: recaf


Definitely the scale.

Things like hive cities, level after level after level of populations that would be a huge city in the modern day, never seeing the sky, and in the depths entire emergent civilisations in the long-forgotten detritus.
Or even just aboard spaceships, generations of crew forming their own cultures amongst a city-sized population in the void.
Administratum complexes that are miles upon miles of labyrinthine archives and offices, with literally warring factions fighting over paper and ink for their bureaucracies.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/23 06:09:34


Post by: Aash


I like the whole science, understanding and technology has transformed into mysticism, ritual and religious dogma.

Instruction manuals are holy texts, software and operating systems are "machine spirits", standard operating procedures and routine maintenance are sacred rites and rituals! I Love it!

Its like the humans worshiping the atomic bomb in Beneath the Planet of the Apes turned up to 11.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/23 10:10:21


Post by: Flipsiders


Voss wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
Sure because XXI century Catholic fanatism has a lot more nuance than its XVI century counterpart...

The only difference is that nowdays they dont control the state apparatus like in the early modern age or in the IOM.

Why do the most realistic elements of the lore seem "absurd" to you?... please just read the newspapers.

The machine cult and "praying to the machine spirits" are definitely absurd, though.


They aren't particularly. Most people have no idea how tech works.
20th century cartoons had jokes about magic gnomes living in refrigerators and switching the light on and off manually when the door was opened/closed for a reason. Cargo cults were very much a thing.
'Percussive maintenance' is a fervent belief in the here and now.

And tech priest rituals have literally been described in archaic terms but amounted to 'spray WD40, yell obscenities, and turn the power off and on again' (apply holy unguents, implore the machine spirit, strike the rune of activation).


The original superstitions about gremlins also aren't too far from the Machine Spirit line of thinking, when you consider it.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/23 17:17:05


Post by: Racerguy180


Gert wrote:Son, 200 soldiers died for that Ration Pack you best enjoy it!


Now that's comedy!!!!!


For me the Mechanicus as a whole does it.

Land's Raider & Speeder. Funny how the dude with Land in their name found the STCs...

The plug/unplug, turn on/off, sensually massage the two spherical control sticks while saying it's a good boy startup checklist.

The fact that there can be 2 diametrically opposed factions on whether the motive force is the Omnissiah or a 3rd thing.

TITANS!!!!! nuff said

It's as if Spacely Sprockets & Cogswell Cogs took up believing that their own way of transferring energy mechanically and will kill eachother for thinking otherwise.

On a non Mechanicus note, Obi-Wan Sherlock Cloussaeu
Gorkamorka


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/23 18:32:00


Post by: Graphite


Absurdity I like:-

The monstrous, wilful inefficiency of the entire Imperium. The shear boggling scale of putting massive effort into doing something pointless, like cataloguing reports from a star system that went nova millennia ago. The pointlessly large scale.

What punctures my suspension of disbelief? When they get the numbers too LOW.

A Hive world has a population that big, and has no ecosystem so you have to import food? Fair enough. You can only recycle so much, eventually entropy will get you - no system can be 100% efficient. But you only have one spaceport (For good, grimdark reasons) which is relatively speaking quite small (A mile across)? How are you going to get that much food down from orbit? How many ships bound from Agri worlds are arriving in orbit PER HOUR to keep up with that level of demand? And they lowball these numbers every time.

No! Give me MORE LUNACY. A freighter crash in Orbit? The Space Ever Given manages to get lodged in the Eye of Selene? Millions die of starvation. Not instantly, of course. Most will be killed by the Cannibal Riots, giving rise to numerous additional corpse grinder cults. A warp storm that cuts your hive off from the wider Imperium for a month? Tens of billions dead.

Why have we ended up with Imperial Guard regiments with numbers in the thousands? It used to be a percentage of PDF. Sure, a Ratling world might raise a regiment of a couple of hundred. A regiment from Necromunda should be millions strong, with accompanying logistics.

Then half of it should get lost in the warp.

If you're going for silly numbers, commit!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/23 18:50:54


Post by: Lord Damocles


 Graphite wrote:
Why have we ended up with Imperial Guard regiments with numbers in the thousands? It used to be a percentage of PDF. Sure, a Ratling world might raise a regiment of a couple of hundred. A regiment from Necromunda should be millions strong, with accompanying logistics.

Regimental strength was based upon the capacities of transport ships.

A world with a higher population will produce more regiments, as opposed to larger regiments.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/23 21:15:58


Post by: Graphite


 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Graphite wrote:
Why have we ended up with Imperial Guard regiments with numbers in the thousands? It used to be a percentage of PDF. Sure, a Ratling world might raise a regiment of a couple of hundred. A regiment from Necromunda should be millions strong, with accompanying logistics.

Regimental strength was based upon the capacities of transport ships.

A world with a higher population will produce more regiments, as opposed to larger regiments.


I was fairly sure that 1 mustering used to equal 1 regiment in Rogue Trader, giving rise to Administratum Induced Hilarity, where some clerk has decided that 3 regiments should be sufficient for planetary conquest, but unfortunately doesn't realise that due to the population size of the mustering worlds this equates to 4000 troops, while also sending a 2 million strong Necromundan regiment on a peacekeeping mission to a feral world where they suddenly treble the population. And massively reduce the level of peace.

For the "Galaxy Troop Ship", White Dwarf 140 they mention "The tens of thousands of troops carried by the galaxy" and then go on to say that this represents about 4 regiments each with a strength of 2000-6000, so the 6000 a regiment number has been around for a while. But that's still a ship carrying north of 20,000 troops, of about light cruiser size.

I suspect, given that upgunning a Lunar class cruiser to an Armageddon class battlecruiser adds 2000 crew to run the turrets and change the power couplings, crew space is not at a premium on Imperial ships. Having a couple of really big transports with a couple of hundred thousand aboard doesn't seem unreasonable (and might actually be a sensible number of soldiers to have a war).

A WW2 army group had a strength of 400,000 to 1,000,000. The Allies had SIX of these. By the 6,000 per regiment, 1 regiment per ship logic, that's 6,000 regiments and 6,000 warp capable craft. For a war which in 40k terms should be regarded as "local squabble". Given time dilation, none of these will arrive at even approximately the same time.

See what I mean? They get these numbers low every time. Give me massive troop transports running the gauntlet of defence lasers. Hundreds of thousands of troops vapourised before making planetfall. Go properly all in on the crazy.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 00:55:28


Post by: BrianDavion


guys let's not derail this thread with "sci-fi authors are gak at numbers" please


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 06:17:34


Post by: mrFickle


Attack bikes, probably the most useless form of combat vehicle ever yet numerous species across the galaxy seem to have developed them for their armies


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 12:05:07


Post by: Vatsetis


mrFickle wrote:
Attack bikes, probably the most useless form of combat vehicle ever yet numerous species across the galaxy seem to have developed them for their armies


Could you elaborate on this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
guys let's not derail this thread with "sci-fi authors are gak at numbers" please


Well its quite annoying and in 40k it creates a huge level of cognitive disonance.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 12:37:03


Post by: kirotheavenger


Bikes are generally horrendous off road, and are horrendous when trying to navigate around a complex battlefield with obstacles.
And if you're trying to hit something with assault rifles nailed to your bike? Not a chance.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 12:39:45


Post by: Vatsetis


You are kidding... Right... In WW2 many armies had motocicle troops including sidecars with machibeguns that could be fired while mounted.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 13:13:48


Post by: Salted Diamond


Vatsetis wrote:
You are kidding... Right... In WW2 many armies had motocicle troops including sidecars with machibeguns that could be fired while mounted.

This is correct, but they did not use said motorcycles in off-road/cross-country combat


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 13:15:07


Post by: Gert


Not accurately while moving, not offroad accurately, and almost always as escorts for staff cars, i.e. not what Astartes use bikes for.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 13:59:27


Post by: kirotheavenger


Yeah those bikes were not combat units. They were used for recon, messaging, and escorting.

Jeeps were pretty much the same thing and used for pretty much the same roles, although did lean a little more towards front line combat due to their greater offroad capacity.

I remember in one novel a White Scars biker used a demolisher cannon shell crater to get a sick jump and shoot down an enemy aircraft with his bolters. That moment was a little suspect!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 14:44:55


Post by: the_scotsman


 Duskweaver wrote:
Titans. The whole concept of bipedal war machines the size of skyscrapers, when you could just have mounted the same weapons on a big tank chassis, is completely stupid and impractical. But also awesome. 40K wouldn't be 40K without them.


My personal take on Titans is that they were designed, originally, as propaganda show weapons for a repressive totalitarian regime and were never actually intended to be engaging in any kind of 'even' war - the designers believed the Void Shield generators and collossal city-leveling weapons mounted on the titans to be so invulnerable, so impossibly powerful, and that any exchange of firepower with a titan involved would be so lopsided that they could essentially be built as towering impractical collossi with no fear of ever having to deal with anything that would test the flaws in the two-legged design.

and of course, the designers never believed that imperial titans would ever end up fighting OTHER imperial titans - hence the hasty retrofits and designs of weapons like harpoons and claws for warhounds to drag down larger titans after the horus heresy began.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vatsetis wrote:
You are kidding... Right... In WW2 many armies had motocicle troops including sidecars with machibeguns that could be fired while mounted.


"Could be fired while mounted" is not the same as "were regularly fired while mounted."

German motorcycle troops essentially never engaged in actual combat while mounted on such an exposed platform. If a machine gun was ever fired from a motorcycle, it was being fired wildly an an attempt to keep enemies' heads down while the motorcycle driver frantically tried to drive away.

In an actual planned offensive, the motorcycle troops dismounted a safe distance from where the enemy was believed to be, and the motorcycle troops fought on foot, like sane people. Because of course they did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
my favorite little consistent 40k idiosyncrasy is that primarily because of the way sprues and models were originally designed, nearly every melee unit is wildly hip-firing a sidearm in their non-dominant hand WHILE theyre attempting to wield a melee weapon...which is often one of the aforementioned hilariously bonkers "chainsaws but with a rapier grip, you know, for when you want to get into a fething sword duel with a fething chainsaw"

I love imagining a space marine and a chaos space marine charging at one another, firing their handheld grenade launchers wildly with absolutely no way to control where the shots go because theyre running and not bracing at all (ain't no way either of them is concentrating on anything besides keeping the running chainsaw they're holding AWAY from their legs, left hand or face), all the bolt pistol shots miss completely because of course they do, and then they clash their two chainsword blades together to have an epic star wars sword-pushy-teeth-gritty moment that we all know is so important when fighting, and ZIP!

Both of them spin around comically as the two running chainsaw blades fling them both off in opposite directions, spinning their arms and desperately trying not to cut their own limbs off while making Wooaaah-OOoooAAh-OOHHhh noises like the three stooges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically every piece of 40k media ever just makes the assumption that a chainsword only operates like a chainsaw does from the instant that it contacts unarmored flesh until it has finished chopping through said flesh, and at all other moments in time a chainsword works just like a regular sword - the whirring, spinning, apparently indestructible chain exerts absolutely no forces on the wielder or any other object that it touches UNLESS that object is something it can chew epically through while splatterizing it.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 15:14:07


Post by: Vatsetis


I now broadly how WWII recon motorcicle troops fought... Obviously not how they are depicted in marine media.

But that dosent mean that the attack bike is one of the "absurdities" of the setting... It just at the level of a Leman Russ and the like (a cartoonish take on an actual historical weapon system) ... Its something quite mundane compared to the "Monty Pithon" burocracy, Mechanicis Religion, Green Hooligans and the like...


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/24 18:07:19


Post by: the_scotsman


Vatsetis wrote:
I now broadly how WWII recon motorcicle troops fought... Obviously not how they are depicted in marine media.

But that dosent mean that the attack bike is one of the "absurdities" of the setting... It just at the level of a Leman Russ and the like (a cartoonish take on an actual historical weapon system) ... Its something quite mundane compared to the "Monty Pithon" burocracy, Mechanicis Religion, Green Hooligans and the like...


While true, the leman russ aside from the cartoonishly hilariously large barrel at least somewhat looks like an old-style WW1 tank, while an attack bike resembles absolutely nothing more than those little 'big wheel' plastic bicycles that basically everybody had as a kid with the hollow plastic chunky wheels


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/25 09:37:20


Post by: Tiennos


The bikes are one of those cases where I wish things were even more absurd. Forget the bikes, give me space marine heavy cavalry riding on super horses in power barding!


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/25 16:15:59


Post by: -Guardsman-


 Tiennos wrote:
The bikes are one of those cases where I wish things were even more absurd. Forget the bikes, give me space marine heavy cavalry riding on super horses in power barding!

Like the Space Wolves' Thunderwolves...

Space Wolves have a lot of 40k-brand absurdity.

.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/26 12:54:31


Post by: Vatsetis


 Tiennos wrote:
The bikes are one of those cases where I wish things were even more absurd. Forget the bikes, give me space marine heavy cavalry riding on super horses in power barding!


Yep, the transformation of SM into orks havent got far enough yet... Hope that by 12 edition Astartes and Greenskins can share a common codex.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/26 16:08:13


Post by: Shadow Walker


Vatsetis wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
The bikes are one of those cases where I wish things were even more absurd. Forget the bikes, give me space marine heavy cavalry riding on super horses in power barding!


Yep, the transformation of SM into orks havent got far enough yet... Hope that by 12 edition Astartes and Greenskins can share a common codex.

Primaris on Squigs would sell like hotcakes


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/26 18:50:16


Post by: Vatsetis


I really thing that GW should develop the current trends and turn all other factions into Astartes... So Orks would be "Greenskins Astartes"... Tau could be "Anime Astartes" and so on.

That way perhaps all factions would be able to fight on an equal ground.

The current situation where we have SM protagonists in 30 flavours and various neglected antagonist factions is pretty sad.

Also if everybody in the setting was an Astartes the level of absurdity will raise and therefore que quality of 40k will increase dramatically.


Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/28 07:00:09


Post by: tneva82


-Guardsman- wrote:

The absurdity lies in why anyone tasked with managing the Imperium's heavily stretched resources would think an artificer's lifetime of work is worth one (1) dead heretic or alien, when that same artificer could instead craft enough regular-ass boltguns and bolter shells to kill thousands of heretics or aliens.

The Imperium's workers are countless, but so are the Imperium's enemies.

.


Is one bullet ONLY thing he does? Maybe it takes lifetime to produce but not all that is active time so he can also do other bullets. After step x leave to holy liquid to soak in time. And maybe he can work on multiples at once.



Absurdities we love about warhammer @ 2021/08/28 13:43:23


Post by: Salted Diamond


tneva82 wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:

The absurdity lies in why anyone tasked with managing the Imperium's heavily stretched resources would think an artificer's lifetime of work is worth one (1) dead heretic or alien, when that same artificer could instead craft enough regular-ass boltguns and bolter shells to kill thousands of heretics or aliens.

The Imperium's workers are countless, but so are the Imperium's enemies.

.


Is one bullet ONLY thing he does? Maybe it takes lifetime to produce but not all that is active time so he can also do other bullets. After step x leave to holy liquid to soak in time. And maybe he can work on multiples at once.

This is the headcanon I've always accepted for the "takes a lifetime" in 40K. 1 artificer can make hundreds if not thousands of the special bolts, but it takes them a lifetime to produce them. So a few times a decade the armory gets a new batch of them and then slowly issues them out a few at a time.

*edited for spelling